April 1, 2025 • 37 mins
Ever wondered how fitness can be more inclusive and empowering for everyone? Join us as we dive into a transformative conversation with Keira, the innovative founder of Chaotic Good Fitness, who has redefined personal training for neurodivergent and queer individuals. Keira's journey, marked by personal battles with ADHD and depression, has fueled their empathetic and personalized approach to fitness. Discover how Kira crafts unique fitness plans for those with chronic conditions like RA, fibromyalgia, and POTS, prioritizing collaboration and boosting confidence while challenging the stale norms of traditional fitness.
Let's bring a bit of whimsical fun into our fitness journey! Picture this: workout plans laced with nerdy references and inspired by our favorite board games like Mysterium and Clue. We explore how these playful elements foster community and connection, making exercise sessions spark joy beyond the physical. Whether reminiscing about the cultural significance of Mahjong or sharing quirky stories from beloved games, it’s all about tailoring workouts to fit personalities and interests, shifting the focus from weight loss to holistic well-being and joy.
Staying motivated can be a struggle, especially for those with ADHD. Together with Keira, we tackle the stigmas and societal expectations attached to fitness, advocating for flexibility and creativity in workout routines. We introduce the concept of an "internal bra" for improved posture and share practical tips for maintaining an active lifestyle. As our conversation wraps up, we express heartfelt gratitude for our cherished community of "Spoonies," whose support energizes and inspires us. Join us for this empowering and heartfelt episode as we celebrate the strength in community and the joy of fitness tailored just for you.
Are you living with a chronic illness and want to make your voice heard? Rare Patient Voice connects patients and caregivers with research opportunities—so you can share your experiences and get paid for your time! Your insights help drive real change in healthcare.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters podcast.
We are so excited to have youwith us today, as always.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Jen and I'm Allie , and today we are thrilled to
introduce a guest who's allabout empowering people to feel
confident in their own bodiesand live their best lives.
Joining us is the founder ofChaotic Good Fitness.
Kira is not only a certifiedpersonal trainer, but also an
advocate for inclusive andempathetic wellness.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Specializing in supporting neurodivergent and
queer individuals in theirhealth and fitness journeys,
kiera brings a uniqueperspective to fitness, blending
their lifelong passion foreducation and weightlifting with
their deep understanding of howintentionality can transform
lives.
They've even worked withclients managing chronic
(00:48):
illnesses like RA, fibromyalgiaand, of course, POTS.
We can't wait to dive into andlearn more about their journey.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We're excited to learn from you today.
Kira, let's get started.
Yes, welcome.
Hello.
Yes, I know we did our littleintroduction, but can you
introduce yourself to us, Hi?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I am Kira.
I use say them pronouns.
You have mostly said everythingI would normally say.
I'm a personal trainer andnutrition coach.
I live in Atlanta, but I domost of my training online.
I have a wonderful dog who ishalf of why I lift at this point
and I just love what I do.
Yeah, that's what I got.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's amazing how long have you been a personal
trainer?
Seven years now, very cool.
I lived in Atlanta for sevenyears I actually just moved in
2023, but I was in Buckhead andI miss it.
I live in Lenox, right nextdoor Cool, yes, but that's
really cool, okay cool.
How did you get into fitnesswith?
We talked about your chronicillnesses and I know it's tricky
(01:47):
and it's very rare to find I'ma personal trainer as well, and
it's rare to find us spoonies astrainers.
So I'd love to hear your storyas to why you became a personal
teacher.
I was a giant nerd growing up.
I was not big into movement,exercise, sports.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I was head in a book, not interested in gym class.
When I went to college I met myhusband and I was trying to
lose weight at the time and heis a powerlifter.
(02:19):
So he was like, listen,weightlifting is going to help
you a lot.
He taught me how to do it.
He used, if you're familiar,starting lot.
He taught me how to do it.
He used, if you're familiar,starting strengths.
He taught me like all of thebasics and very strongly
imperative of gym etiquette andlike what you're supposed to be
doing.
And then I fell in love withlifting because it made me feel
so much better, so much morestrong and confident, and it was
(02:43):
the first time I'd ever doneanything where I wasn't just
naturally good at it.
I was very much the kind of kidwhere I did everything well the
first time and if I didn't doit well, I just didn't do it.
So that's kind of how I gotinto it.
So my main chronic illnessespersonally are ADHD and
depression.
I did not get diagnosed untilway into all of my fitness
(03:07):
journey.
So a lot of what has happenedin terms of becoming a trainer
and doing what I do with clientsis figuring stuff out on my own
as I've gone, because, as yousaid, there aren't a lot of us
that are trainers.
I can count on one hand howmany fitness influencers I
follow that are spoonies andtalk about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
As a personal trainer .
What do you think sets yourapproach apart, especially when
working with the neurodivergentand the queer individuals?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
exist as they are Because, like we're constantly
bombarded by all differentfitness ethos and like people
are telling us what we'resupposed to be doing and here's
you know, calories in, caloriesout.
Do strength training, doCrossFit, do whatever.
That's all fine and dandy, buteach person with their
(03:58):
neurodivergence, with theirchronic illness, with whatever
their intersectionality is, hasreally specific needs.
And if you tell someone withADHD to just not eat ice cream,
that doesn't work, becausesometimes, like food is a
dopamine, food gives youdopamine.
And if you are lacking dopamine, telling somebody to stop doing
(04:20):
the thing that gives them thatneurotransmitter that is
important you're not doinganybody any favors.
A lot of what I do is break downall of the generic concepts and
make it more manageable andfunctional for my clients
Reframe health.
I feel like a lot of times Italk about how, as a trainer I
am a therapist light I have tohelp clients be okay with not
(04:45):
being able to do the same thingevery day.
I have to help them be okaywith not meeting their goals in
the timeframe they expect, andso a lot of what I do is not
only help them build a programthat makes sense for them, but
also make them comfortable andconfident to do those things,
get rid of all the noise that'stelling them that they're not
good enough, simply becausethey're not following a
(05:07):
neurotypical end.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
You've worked with clients managing chronic
illnesses such as RA,fibromyalgia and POTS.
How do you tailor fitness plansto meet the needs of these
clients that are navigatingconditions like that?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So a lot of times when I talk to new clients, I
explain training as arelationship Very much.
So I feel like it's acollaborative effort.
Collaborative effort, and Ihave all the knowledge, I have
the experience, I have all ofthese resources.
I'm going to take what I knowand give somebody a concept and
then we're going to take whothey are, how they exist, what
(05:45):
their needs are, and adjust andadapt it for them, because I can
work with an RA client and oneRA client isn't going to have
the same needs as another RAclient.
So I'm going to say, okay, thisis what generally works for RA,
and then I'm going to talk tothe client and be like this is
what I think that is going towork, but I don't expect it to
be perfect and we work togetherand use my knowledge and tools
(06:09):
to build upon it and kind ofcreate like this collaboration.
We start on day one with oneprogram and by day 100, it's not
always exactly the same,because you know every day is
different.
You know if you're in schoolexactly the same.
Because you know every day isdifferent.
You know if you're in school,every semester is different.
(06:30):
Life happens.
You can't tell life to nothappen.
You can't tell your body tojust not have a chronic illness.
Working with people and withtheir personal bodies instead of
forcing something that doesn'twork is really the way it works.
It's all about buildingsustainability and removing the
guilt and shame that comes alongwith not being able to do
things the way you're taughtyou're supposed to.
Chronic illness tends to makebodies really unpredictable from
(06:54):
day to day, based on all sortsof different things, and my job
is really to hold people's handsand help them be okay with that
and really be comfortable withthe amount of flexibility we
need to have and like buildingthat flexibility into the
program and building comfort forwhatever is going on day to day
(07:14):
.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I love that you mentioned like we're therapists,
because it kind of like whenwe're training people as
trainers, we listen toeverybody's life story, when
we're not talking about whatmoves they're doing.
So I understand that when Iworked at the gym, I knew
everybody's business,everybody's gossip and all of
their problems.
Okay, I had 25 clients and I'mlike I know everybody's gossip
in here, but I love that.
(07:35):
You said, though, that you haveto constantly like remind your
clients if they don't get totheir goals by a set time, even
when they made those smart goalsright, like they didn't make it
, or if every day looksdifferent or every session looks
different, that you have totell them, hey, like you remind
them essentially right, Like youknow you're on this path.
You might have, you havearthritis.
It's not going to look the same.
(07:56):
It's just like our chronicillness.
It's not going to look the sameevery day.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, I would love to hear for our listeners living
with chronic illnesses whatadvice you would give for
finding movement or a fitnessroutine that works for them and
empowers them.
One takeaway if you hearnothing else from me is that you
need to work with your bodyrather than force it into a box
that it doesn't belong in.
The important thing is beingconsistent, and something that
I've done a lot of times withclients with chronic illness is,
instead of doing like onespecific SMART goal, we do a
process goal instead of, okay,we are looking to lose 10 pounds
(08:34):
in weight loss or towardsstrength or whatever it is.
Here is the range of optionsfor what you can do and aim for
something in that range.
I do minimum goal and like aideal goal a lot of times, and
(08:58):
consistency is not doingeverything exactly right every
time.
Something frequently uh, I hearon like adhd tiktok and stuff
is how, like, adhd 100 isneurotypical 200 and your 30 is
plenty.
A lot of the time that that'sreally the thing it's like focus
(09:20):
on at least something.
Don't focus on being perfectevery time.
That still counts asconsistency.
It's about focusing on whatfeels good, what's manageable
and what you're willing to do,rather than what society tells
you you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, Can we please shout that to the rooftops?
I love that the listeners arehearing another trainer say that
, because I say that all thetime, like consistency is key
and you don't have to do exactlywhat you said.
You don't have to be perfect.
Even if your workout was a walkoutside, like a fast walk
instead, or maybe somestretching right, it counts.
So yes, yes, yes, yes toeverything you said you describe
(09:58):
yourself as a lifelong nerd.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
What role do hobbies such as board games or Doctor
who play in maintaining balanceand joy in your own life?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
The two big things that my hobbies do for me is
they help me build community andthey help me rest.
Board games are a collaborativeeffort.
Watching shows like Doctor whoI have seen Doctor who multiple
times.
I watch all the way through.
I'm watching all of the classicwho, but something I love doing
is bringing someone new into itand showing them this thing.
That I absolutely love becauseit gets them excited for it.
(10:32):
It gets us excited to talktogether and be connective.
I am very much acommunity-oriented person and so
building that community andbuilding a group of people that
I can rely on and bring joytogether is really a big deal.
Also, with rest, board gamesaren't necessarily what you
(10:53):
think of in terms of resting,but sleep is not the only way to
rest.
Sometimes rest is doingsomething that doesn't require
focusing on.
Work, doesn't require being on,and that's a big thing.
For me is turning off theirworkouts fun things.
I am a giant nerd and I haveall sorts of nerdy interests,
(11:22):
and a lot of my clients are alsogiant nerds and so I'll name
their workouts things based ontheir nerdy interests.
I have a whole program that'sjust named after different
what's it called?
Zelda game things, and I useD&D things and like all sorts of
puns and it just it adds alittle extra spark of joy for
both me, because it makes mehappy to see that my clients are
(11:45):
excited and it makes themchuckle, so it's just like an
added little burst of positivity.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Freaking love that, especially because, like you
could say, like we're going todo the Allons-y squats and
nobody would know like what thatis, except for like you and
your client, and it's like thatconnection.
You know, and I know, that allof us trainers have different
words for all of the exercisesFor real.
And secondly, it's not everyday I meet a fellow Whovian.
(12:10):
So who is your favorite doctor?
Nine is my doctor, okay, mine's10.
Nice.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, I love him.
His is nine.
It's not everybody's, that'srare, it is I really like I just
I really like nine.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I love him.
I am currently showing myfriend Dr who and we are in Matt
Smith.
We're like four episodes awayfrom the episode where we find
out that River is Amy's daughterand I am just like can we
freaking get?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
there.
Can we get there yet?
Oh my God, oh my.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
God.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, it's so like.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm so excited about it.
It's crazy.
I love that.
I'm so excited for your friend,Okay so anyway, but yes.
I love everything you said.
Yep, my favorite board game iscalled Mysterium.
It's not even kind of like youknow, akira, it Mysterium.
It's not even kind of like youknow, akira.
It's not really a board game.
There's a ghost and you have tokind of like solve the murder
and the ghost gives you clues.
It's really cool and it's it'sbasically art.
(13:07):
So you put a bunch of cards andit's a piece of art.
But that piece of art you haveto think like the ghost, like
the ghost will give you a clueand you have to think what does
this piece?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
of art mean.
So it's you kind of have toknow who the ghost is.
It's really cool.
It's called Mysterium, okay,I'm looking it up right now.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Is it my or mi, my, my, yeah, and Kira, what is your
favorite board game?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
my two favorite board games.
One is called Tales of theArabian Nights.
It's basically if you tookDungeons and Dragons and instead
of having a dungeon master,like telling you the story, you
have the book of tales.
Having a dungeon master tellingyou the story you have the book
of tales that you follow alongand tell the story of.
It's very silly.
It kind of goes through sort ofAladdin-themed like the 1001
(13:50):
Tales from Scheherazade.
I really like it because it's astorytelling game, so it's not
really competitive.
You're just like going aroundand seeing what happens to each
of the players.
And then the other one iscalled ricochet robot.
It is it is incrediblyfast-paced and incredibly
competitive, but basicallyyou're like trying to move these
(14:13):
little robot guys intodifferent spaces and you need to
do it in the most efficient waypossible, so like the least
number of moves.
Also, to give you an example ofsome of the workout titles I've
used, one is called SontaranTraining Camp, just for
reference.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Wow, okay, I'm just so excited, andy, there's got to
be a game out there that youlike.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Top two Operation and Clue.
Those are my two games.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I love a good.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Clue.
I love a good Clue and I love agood Operation, but
non-dominant hand style.
Okay, that's how it goes down.
It's non-dominant hand style tomake everybody equally as
disadvantaged, becauseinclusivity that's how Andy
rocks in her house.
Everybody use your non-dominanthand.
There we go, we play Operation,but it's a lot of good times.
(15:01):
It forces you to encourage eachother and even if you're
frustrated, everyone's equallyas frustrated, but it forces an
encouraging interaction.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And then it brings a lot of laughter too.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
It does, it's so much fun and don't let anybody have
any spirits in them, then theyreally hilarious.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
If you like clue, you should look into kill dr lucky.
It is the anti-clue.
Instead of trying to figure outwho killed the guy, you are
trying to be the one to do thekilling.
Wait one more time.
What's it called?
Kill dr lucky?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
we are very big on katana in my household and we
have many versions of it.
Ali haveie, have you everplayed what Allie?
You need to play the time.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I know, I know I've heard of it, but I'm so behind.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
You need to play it.
What else do I like to play?
We play a lot of card games.
We do play a lot of card games,but I play Mahjong.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I obsessed with that.
That's excellent.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yes, I have Mahjong as well.
I have the um, the characters,yeah, like the tiles, and you
know what you need to get.
Your has a question on this,marjan ali.
At what age did you learn toplay it?
I am not an ageist, by no means, but when I learned, I learned
from an older person and peoplemy age is like a lost card game.
People my age don't play it.
And so for you to say I lovethis game, I'm like whoa, who
(16:22):
taught you Because it is a lostthing it is.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
It is actually learned a couple years ago.
But my mom used to host amahjong uh club and when I lived
in a camp in saudi arabia andso, uh, for years like I'm
talking, I guess, when we movedthere in like 2000, so her
friends in saudi taught her inlike 2000 but they played the.
We play the chinese version,not the american version.
(16:48):
The american version is harder,I believe, uh, but we play like
the base, like the bare bareminimum Chinese version.
So, yeah, a couple years ago Ilearned, but it's so much fun I
love it.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I learned growing up in elementary.
My best friend, her mom, isfrom the Philippines and she
would have these massive partieswith all of her Filipino
friends and we were allowed toparticipate and eat all the food
which I miss, I miss, I miss, Imiss.
And they would bring us in andthey'd have several tables set
up to play Mahjong and we wereplaying with actual physical
(17:20):
tiles.
I feel like so many peoplenowadays think it's just an app
on your phone.
No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You've never done that.
You got to play it with theclanking of the tiles.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
It's much more fun.
I love it, I love it, I love it.
But every time people sayMahjong, I picture these very,
very tiny, short Filipino women.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I am really amused by this conversation because I
also learned when I was veryyoung from my grandmother.
She had all of her and herneighbors would play together.
They taught me to play.
She had all of her and herneighbors would play together.
They taught me to play.
But in atlanta there is amahjong club.
One of the jewish synagogueshas a club that they play
regularly I am so mad that Ididn't know about that when I
lived there goodness I wouldhave been there, I would have
(18:02):
taken you, we could have gone.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm absolutely goodness gracious.
yeah, that sounds so much fun.
I would have already said thiskind of before, but to make the
workouts enjoyable and fun andgeared towards the person.
So when we're chronically ill,I get this question a lot as a
trainer as well how do wemotivate our clients to get back
into it when we're just reallystruggling?
I think how you make it, youconnect their nerdiness to it
(18:26):
gets them excited.
My advice was always like getexcited about your workout.
Somehow.
For me, I love to do my firstsips before I do my workout,
which is me drinking coffeebefore I work out and I dance,
or I love to drink mypre-workout and dance.
But if, like I had a Doctor whorelated workout, I would be so
excited, like Alonzi squats or,how you said, the Centurion
(18:46):
workout.
That's amazing, like I wouldfreak.
So I love that you do thatbecause it gets them excited to
work as well when they don'twant to.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So this is my advice Come up with some kind of
questionnaire for your clients.
You can find that way to bringthem in and get them to feel
like you're relating to them.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Even if you're not, do you have that?
Do you have a questionnaire foryour?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
clients I do.
So.
The way that I go through myprocess is, when a new client
comes in, we set up a consultcall and I have an assessment
form.
A lot of it is more of theintake form stuff like what kind
of meds do you take?
What kind of experience do youhave?
Do you have any illnesses orpain points or injuries?
(19:26):
What are you looking for goals?
But one of the questions in itis what do you do in your free
time?
What are your hobbies?
Then, when we have that consultcall, we talk a little bit more
about it.
I explain why I'm asking thatquestion Frequently.
People will get excited aboutthat just because of the idea of
hey, I'm going to make it sillyand fun for them.
One of the things I do with myonline clients is I use an app
(19:48):
called Trainerize.
There's a function where I havea group setting so all of my
clients can interact with eachother.
But every day I ask them aquestion and it gives them an
opportunity to like interactwith each other.
It gives them an opportunity tolike also be creative and get
involved.
Usually it's really sillyquestions.
I have asked questions like ifyou could have a fitness-related
(20:11):
superpower, what would it be?
Or what kind of exercise do youthink your favorite cartoon
character would do Silly thingslike that?
The one I've been mostly askingrecently is what's bringing you
joy right now?
So it's a way to engage them alittle bit more in different
ways and have them thinkingabout fitness in a way that
isn't the you have to loseweight in order to be a good
(20:33):
person.
It gives them a way to buildmore creativity within their
health and fitness journeys sothey can feel good about and
feel more engaged with it.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I love that.
Yeah, if I dropped into yourDMs and I said, hey, I want to
sign up, I want some help, whatwould you ask?
What would you ask me aboutmyself?
The first question.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I always ask is what are you looking for?
I want to get a sense of howyou're talking about things and
how you're talking aboutyourself and what your goals are
.
One of the common things that Iget is I want to lose weight,
but I can't do the things andI'm bad at X, y and Z.
That gives me a lot ofinformation about how they are
(21:14):
viewing fitness, how they arestarting and where they are, so
I can guide them and build thedirection in a way that feels
better for both of us.
Yeah, I tend to start with theno-nonsense what are we?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
doing first, if I were to drop into your DM and
I'm like, hey, I'm Jen, I'm over40.
I've had shoulder surgery, gotphysical therapy, but I'm still
having issues within my shoulder.
Love mountain bike riding, lovehiking, live in the Pacific
Northwest, have a grandson.
I used to love to rollerblade,love to play Catan, love coffee.
If that is all I gave you forinformation, what would write
(21:50):
back to Jen?
We're all kind of curious tosee, like, how does your brain
work?
What would you think if that'swhat I came at you with first?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I would say something like sounds like you do a lot
of really great physicalactivity already and you you
clearly have a good sense ofwhat your body can do.
What are you looking for?
What are your goals?
What brought you to?
I think that we would be agreat fit.
Based on what you're telling me, it sounds like you have a good
sense of who you are and whatyou need.
(22:16):
The next step is that we wouldset up a consult call, and
here's how to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Allie, I'm kind of curious.
What would you say Along thesame lines?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I'd be like babes, you are slaying if you're doing
all these things.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
You're hiking, you're doing this and that, and also
you're so much fun, too, playinggames like hello.
I would talk about coffee, ofcourse, because you know I'd be
like have you seen my first sips?
Because we can, we can discusscoffee, what's your favorite?
And then, yeah, I would say thesame thing, like what are you
looking for that I can help youwith you.
Like are you looking for aworkout schedule?
Are you working?
Are you looking to doone-on-ones?
Are you looking for like Iwould Are you working?
Are you looking to do one onones?
Are you looking for it?
Like, I would like to know whatyou want in me and why you came
to me and then, and then Iwould do the same thing, like,
all right, cool, this sounds alot of fun.
(22:58):
Let's have a consult call andthen we'll talk more about your
goals and I'll do like anassessment with you and we'll
see where you're at.
That's what I would do.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I need to know You're so welcome for that and it is,
you know you don't even havepeople overcomplicate this and I
just kind of want to dial itback.
Let's start with the firstthing you said was I don't have
(23:25):
it in me to do it.
It starts with how you addressit.
Right, if we're making it fun,if we've already made it a chore
before we even start doing thechore, it is going to feel like
a chore.
You like the challenges and youcan do those same things with
the challenges without thechallenge kicking off.
So then it becomes what is theactual roadblock?
(23:47):
What it actually is is that youprefer or you thrive in
community and you feel like it'snot as fun when you have to do
it by yourself.
It's not even an accountabilitything.
You're just more encouragedwhen you do it with your
community.
But you started it off with I'vefailed and I've gained 20
pounds.
(24:07):
A lot of elements goes intothat, right, what was your
stress level like?
How was your sleep?
Did any of your medicationschange?
What was the environment?
So when I work with people andthey're like well, I did that, I
gained.
Okay, yes, we're going to gain.
Yep, that weight's going tofluctuate, but I'm going to go
all the way down to the root.
(24:32):
Let's figure out what all ofthese lifestyle things are, the
things that are core to yourbody's restoration.
First we can tweak all theother things, but I'm going to
start with tweaking how you talkto you, about you and in
reference to anything that youare doing, and then we address
the fitness aspect, because Ican't address the fitness aspect
if the mountain is you and thatmountain's in your mind.
We got to climb that mountainfirst and then you go.
(24:54):
Why do I really just like thesechallenges?
You like the challenges becauseyou like the fun pictures that
come associated with it and youthink it makes you feel 100
percent connected with thecommunity.
That may also be embracing thesuck of the do 100 burpees
challenge.
That may also be embracing thesuck of the do 100 burpees
challenge, right, so now youhave other people embracing the
suck with you.
It's the community that youcrave.
(25:16):
It's not that you cannot do theexercises or you cannot commit,
it's the community that youcrave.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
You are really right.
I wish everyone could see rightnow that all of you are nodding
with me and that that's reallyit and you're right.
I mean, we all know I lovecommunity, but I love not
feeling alone in the task.
I love checking that box.
There's something great aboutchecking a box the dopamine
booster ADHD people love it too.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Okay plot twist.
I feel like we are slaves tochecking the box, though, and it
causes extra and unwarrantedanxiety in the moments where we
cannot check that box off,because we're so used to doing,
being going and showing up thatwe often put things on that list
that aren't priorities, but itwas for the sake of us being
(26:06):
doing, going and showing upbecause we're used to doing that
.
But how often do we put the boxto check?
Sit in stillness.
What's my chest?
My stress temperature?
What does that look like?
Do nothing today.
Can we check that off?
I did nothing today.
Check that off.
You see what I'm saying.
I allow my body toself-regulate.
(26:27):
Check that off.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, and that's really important to do and we
should add it to our list.
And also, I just read the bookADHD is Awesome and love it.
Highly recommend listeners tolisten to the book.
It's so good.
But he was saying the authorwas like ADHD, yours love it
like to check off that box.
So sometimes I will, likeyou're saying like once I'm done
something, I'll write it in myplanner once it's complete and
(26:50):
then I'll check off the box.
And I'm like, oh, and if Ican't check off the box, I don't
beat myself up.
I actually put a really cutesticker over it and hide it and
then I add it to the list that Ihave in the future.
That I know I can do.
But we should add to our boxessit still and you know, and do
those things as well.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So one of my favorite notepads and I used this at
work, but I even use this athome now is this a notepad that
has basically one of them isthat it has to be done today,
and then there's one for needsto be done this week or needs to
be done at some point.
I love that because then I canwrite down my immediate needs,
if there's tasks I have to getdone today, and it could be
(27:29):
things like I need to eat today,I need to drink water today, I
need to get out of bed today.
You know, it can be somethingsimple like that, I think making
that list, prioritizing thethings we need to do and
including in that the sitting instillness, sitting in quiet,
giving ourself grace, all ofthat.
But those notebooks.
Those notebooks, life changingfor me.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And Kara, I'm curious what is, in your opinion, the
hardest thing when it comes topeople with ADHD and exercising?
Coming from personal experienceand also with your clients,
what do you think is our biggestchallenge with that?
Oh, I know we're all differenttoo.
Like I'm not trying to put usin a box, I think I think the
biggest thing, particularlyright now.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
There's a huge boom of people getting late diagnosed
.
I think, especially if you area late diagnosed ADHD-er, we
were taught throughout our livesthat because we weren't doing
the thing, we were lazy, we werenot good enough, we were bad or
whatever.
The stigma is of not doing thething the way that we're
(28:30):
supposed to, in the time framethat we're supposed to.
Really like, pulling ourselvesaway from the box that society
tells us we're supposed to be inand allowing ourselves to be
who we are, is a big piece of it.
For myself, like I'm a programhopper, I cannot stick to a
program for very long.
I get bored immediately.
(28:51):
I was always taught thatprogram hopping is bad and
you're not supposed to do that.
I always felt shame about it.
But at the end of the day, whatactually matters if you're on
some kind of health and fitnessjourney is that you are doing
something.
It doesn't matter what it is,as long as it is something that
you can do and you can doconsistently.
I have allowed myself to programhop For a lot of my ADHD
(29:16):
clients, particularly ones whoget bored really easily.
Normally I do a two-week programcycle so that they have a
larger number of workouts thatthey can pull from, based on how
they're feeling and whatthey're thinking that day.
For myself, I have a two-weekcycle of workouts plus a play
day, which is for me to go tothe gym and do whatever I'm
(29:38):
feeling and try new exercisesthat I've never done before, and
I have a couple of other randomworkouts that I can pull in and
out based on how I'm feeling inthe moment.
It's really about pulling backthe shame and trying to
acknowledge that all of thesethings that we were taught when
we were young are no longerserving us, and pushing it away
(29:59):
so that you feel less, becauseif you're sitting here feeling
shamed about not doing thethings in the way that you're
supposed to do them, it makes ita lot harder to do the things
because you are sitting therejust feeling bad about it
instead of doing what makessense for you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I really want to know about this internal bra Andy.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Oh, yes, I love when people ask me that question.
So it is a real thing and it'sall in how you do fly.
So women tend not to hit theirchest at all of the angles.
Right by science, body byiconiconic.
This is one of these moments.
Women have to hit all theangles.
Why?
Because your boobs cuff at allthe angles.
So if you're doing flies andyou're normally doing it this
(30:41):
way, hit it at the lower angle,come in at 45 degrees.
That's going to give you yourlift.
You're going to come in thisway.
You're going to hit it at allof the angles and then make sure
you're drop setting right.
Make sure you're drop setting,why it builds the bra underneath
.
Here them girls come up here.
You're just like, yay, they'reback to where they need to be
and you correct your posture.
(31:03):
But as you're doing your fliesat all the angles, make sure
you're working your lower backas well, so that you really did
correct your posture and it isjust a natural progression of
the pull-up of your muscle.
Y'all couldn't see the video,but I gave an example that is
brilliant.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I'm obsessed with it and I have now learned something
, and that might be my favoritething that happened all day.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It is You're going to watch the change.
You're going to be like wait aminute, why does this lift it?
I work with teenage, teenageathlete a lot of teenage
athletes and of course they'relike how come my boobs don't
look like, okay, it is.
It's gonna feel strange becauseit's.
It's one of the movements thatI do the most with males,
because they want to taper outlike a triangle, but women don't
(31:45):
understand that.
It does the same thing for them.
Only we have things thatprotrude.
Dudes just have puffy areolas.
It's building their internalbra, but it makes their pecs
look huge.
It's the exact same concept.
Well, building the internal bramakes our boobs look bigger,
except they're not bigger.
They just sit where they'resupposed to sit.
(32:05):
Finally, I like that.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Thank you, Not me over here.
You know what makes me mad.
The first one that came up whenI googled it was surgery.
It was showing implants.
It was showing implants to go inand do the internal bra.
No, no, no, no, no.
That's not what I'm asking for,but it's my goal.
I'm 44 years old, but I haveamazing boobs.
I really do.
I don't mean to sound intomyself.
(32:28):
I have very firm, very in placeboobs, but I want to make sure
they stay that way.
I just do.
I mean it's like my goal.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I want to be 60 and have them where they should be.
I don't want them going to myknees.
So, jen, when you reach out tous as trainers and our DMs, that
would be a great thing to sayLike what goal?
Like Kira said, like what'syour goal?
I want my boobs to be up andready to go for when I'm older.
So yeah, and then, andy, wouldbe like I have this internal bra
, yep.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, if you would have slid into my inbox and said
I no longer want to kick aroundmy areolas, I would have been
like you know what I got youInternal bra.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, Because you know I'm obviously being honest
with you guys that I've gainedweight and I want to lose my
weight, but my biggest goal isactually looking at what I want
to be ahead of time.
So what do I want to look atwhen I'm 60?
Because I have the energy and Ihave the time and I have the
desire now.
So how can I make sure that bythe time I reach 60, I'm there
(33:24):
and how can I keep it there?
Because I don't want to be 60and having my boobs touching the
ground?
If a listener is curious aboutworking with you, what's the
best way for them to get started?
I am on.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Instagram as chaoticgoodfitness23, or my
website.
My Instagram is basically memaking silly reels.
Some of them are little snippetsuggestions for how to do
whatever kind of thing.
Some of them are silly, like Idid a series of what exercise
you would be based on yourzodiac sign recently With my
(33:58):
website.
It's chaoticgoodfitnesscom.
You can use that to look up myprices, look up a little bit
more of my vibes and get mybasic concepts of how I work.
Work gives you all the lists ofmy services and that is where
you can get the link to set upand a consult call.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What's next for Chaotic Good Fitness?
Are there any exciting projectsor goals that you are working
towards?
Speaker 3 (34:26):
My focus goal right now is creating systems, so my
ADHD stops getting the best ofme.
I am great with my business,but also I have a giant messy
Google folder and all of thisstuff and I'm trying to make it
nicer and easier for myself todo.
In terms of projects, the mainthing I'm most excited about
(34:47):
right now is I'm in the processof making a couple of ebooks and
programs specifically focusedon certain hobbies.
So, like I am a crafter Icrochet and I sew and I have a
program that is built aroundbeing able to continue to be
able to craft when I am 80 yearsold and not be too
(35:08):
uncomfortable to do it.
And then I also really likegoing and dancing live music
shows and stuff.
I am working on a program forhow to be able to dance forever.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Those are the two good ones.
Yes, we truly appreciate yougiving us your time to chat.
Thank you, it was so much funchatting with you.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Kira Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I really appreciate it.
It was really good to get toknow you.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
All right, Spoonies, Until next time.
Don't forget your spoon.
Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters podcast.
We are so excited to have youwith us today, as always.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
I'm Jen and I'm Allie , and today we are thrilled to
introduce a guest who's allabout empowering people to feel
confident in their own bodiesand live their best lives.
Joining us is the founder ofChaotic Good Fitness.
Kira is not only a certifiedpersonal trainer, but also an
advocate for inclusive andempathetic wellness.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Specializing in supporting neurodivergent and
queer individuals in theirhealth and fitness journeys,
kiera brings a uniqueperspective to fitness, blending
their lifelong passion foreducation and weightlifting with
their deep understanding of howintentionality can transform
lives.
They've even worked withclients managing chronic
(00:48):
illnesses like RA, fibromyalgiaand, of course, POTS.
We can't wait to dive into andlearn more about their journey.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
We're excited to learn from you today.
Kira, let's get started.
Yes, welcome.
Hello.
Yes, I know we did our littleintroduction, but can you
introduce yourself to us, Hi?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
I am Kira.
I use say them pronouns.
You have mostly said everythingI would normally say.
I'm a personal trainer andnutrition coach.
I live in Atlanta, but I domost of my training online.
I have a wonderful dog who ishalf of why I lift at this point
and I just love what I do.
Yeah, that's what I got.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It's amazing how long have you been a personal
trainer?
Seven years now, very cool.
I lived in Atlanta for sevenyears I actually just moved in
2023, but I was in Buckhead andI miss it.
I live in Lenox, right nextdoor Cool, yes, but that's
really cool, okay cool.
How did you get into fitnesswith?
We talked about your chronicillnesses and I know it's tricky
(01:47):
and it's very rare to find I'ma personal trainer as well, and
it's rare to find us spoonies astrainers.
So I'd love to hear your storyas to why you became a personal
teacher.
I was a giant nerd growing up.
I was not big into movement,exercise, sports.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
I was head in a book, not interested in gym class.
When I went to college I met myhusband and I was trying to
lose weight at the time and heis a powerlifter.
(02:19):
So he was like, listen,weightlifting is going to help
you a lot.
He taught me how to do it.
He used, if you're familiar,starting lot.
He taught me how to do it.
He used, if you're familiar,starting strengths.
He taught me like all of thebasics and very strongly
imperative of gym etiquette andlike what you're supposed to be
doing.
And then I fell in love withlifting because it made me feel
so much better, so much morestrong and confident, and it was
(02:43):
the first time I'd ever doneanything where I wasn't just
naturally good at it.
I was very much the kind of kidwhere I did everything well the
first time and if I didn't doit well, I just didn't do it.
So that's kind of how I gotinto it.
So my main chronic illnessespersonally are ADHD and
depression.
I did not get diagnosed untilway into all of my fitness
(03:07):
journey.
So a lot of what has happenedin terms of becoming a trainer
and doing what I do with clientsis figuring stuff out on my own
as I've gone, because, as yousaid, there aren't a lot of us
that are trainers.
I can count on one hand howmany fitness influencers I
follow that are spoonies andtalk about that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
As a personal trainer .
What do you think sets yourapproach apart, especially when
working with the neurodivergentand the queer individuals?
Speaker 3 (03:34):
exist as they are Because, like we're constantly
bombarded by all differentfitness ethos and like people
are telling us what we'resupposed to be doing and here's
you know, calories in, caloriesout.
Do strength training, doCrossFit, do whatever.
That's all fine and dandy, buteach person with their
(03:58):
neurodivergence, with theirchronic illness, with whatever
their intersectionality is, hasreally specific needs.
And if you tell someone withADHD to just not eat ice cream,
that doesn't work, becausesometimes, like food is a
dopamine, food gives youdopamine.
And if you are lacking dopamine, telling somebody to stop doing
(04:20):
the thing that gives them thatneurotransmitter that is
important you're not doinganybody any favors.
A lot of what I do is break downall of the generic concepts and
make it more manageable andfunctional for my clients
Reframe health.
I feel like a lot of times Italk about how, as a trainer I
am a therapist light I have tohelp clients be okay with not
(04:45):
being able to do the same thingevery day.
I have to help them be okaywith not meeting their goals in
the timeframe they expect, andso a lot of what I do is not
only help them build a programthat makes sense for them, but
also make them comfortable andconfident to do those things,
get rid of all the noise that'stelling them that they're not
good enough, simply becausethey're not following a
(05:07):
neurotypical end.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
You've worked with clients managing chronic
illnesses such as RA,fibromyalgia and POTS.
How do you tailor fitness plansto meet the needs of these
clients that are navigatingconditions like that?
Speaker 3 (05:22):
So a lot of times when I talk to new clients, I
explain training as arelationship Very much.
So I feel like it's acollaborative effort.
Collaborative effort, and Ihave all the knowledge, I have
the experience, I have all ofthese resources.
I'm going to take what I knowand give somebody a concept and
then we're going to take whothey are, how they exist, what
(05:45):
their needs are, and adjust andadapt it for them, because I can
work with an RA client and oneRA client isn't going to have
the same needs as another RAclient.
So I'm going to say, okay, thisis what generally works for RA,
and then I'm going to talk tothe client and be like this is
what I think that is going towork, but I don't expect it to
be perfect and we work togetherand use my knowledge and tools
(06:09):
to build upon it and kind ofcreate like this collaboration.
We start on day one with oneprogram and by day 100, it's not
always exactly the same,because you know every day is
different.
You know if you're in schoolexactly the same.
Because you know every day isdifferent.
You know if you're in school,every semester is different.
(06:30):
Life happens.
You can't tell life to nothappen.
You can't tell your body tojust not have a chronic illness.
Working with people and withtheir personal bodies instead of
forcing something that doesn'twork is really the way it works.
It's all about buildingsustainability and removing the
guilt and shame that comes alongwith not being able to do
things the way you're taughtyou're supposed to.
Chronic illness tends to makebodies really unpredictable from
(06:54):
day to day, based on all sortsof different things, and my job
is really to hold people's handsand help them be okay with that
and really be comfortable withthe amount of flexibility we
need to have and like buildingthat flexibility into the
program and building comfort forwhatever is going on day to day
(07:14):
.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I love that you mentioned like we're therapists,
because it kind of like whenwe're training people as
trainers, we listen toeverybody's life story, when
we're not talking about whatmoves they're doing.
So I understand that when Iworked at the gym, I knew
everybody's business,everybody's gossip and all of
their problems.
Okay, I had 25 clients and I'mlike I know everybody's gossip
in here, but I love that.
(07:35):
You said, though, that you haveto constantly like remind your
clients if they don't get totheir goals by a set time, even
when they made those smart goalsright, like they didn't make it
, or if every day looksdifferent or every session looks
different, that you have totell them, hey, like you remind
them essentially right, Like youknow you're on this path.
You might have, you havearthritis.
It's not going to look the same.
(07:56):
It's just like our chronicillness.
It's not going to look the sameevery day.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Well, I would love to hear for our listeners living
with chronic illnesses whatadvice you would give for
finding movement or a fitnessroutine that works for them and
empowers them.
One takeaway if you hearnothing else from me is that you
need to work with your bodyrather than force it into a box
that it doesn't belong in.
The important thing is beingconsistent, and something that
I've done a lot of times withclients with chronic illness is,
instead of doing like onespecific SMART goal, we do a
process goal instead of, okay,we are looking to lose 10 pounds
(08:34):
in weight loss or towardsstrength or whatever it is.
Here is the range of optionsfor what you can do and aim for
something in that range.
I do minimum goal and like aideal goal a lot of times, and
(08:58):
consistency is not doingeverything exactly right every
time.
Something frequently uh, I hearon like adhd tiktok and stuff
is how, like, adhd 100 isneurotypical 200 and your 30 is
plenty.
A lot of the time that that'sreally the thing it's like focus
(09:20):
on at least something.
Don't focus on being perfectevery time.
That still counts asconsistency.
It's about focusing on whatfeels good, what's manageable
and what you're willing to do,rather than what society tells
you you're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Yes, Can we please shout that to the rooftops?
I love that the listeners arehearing another trainer say that
, because I say that all thetime, like consistency is key
and you don't have to do exactlywhat you said.
You don't have to be perfect.
Even if your workout was a walkoutside, like a fast walk
instead, or maybe somestretching right, it counts.
So yes, yes, yes, yes toeverything you said you describe
(09:58):
yourself as a lifelong nerd.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
What role do hobbies such as board games or Doctor
who play in maintaining balanceand joy in your own life?
Speaker 3 (10:09):
The two big things that my hobbies do for me is
they help me build community andthey help me rest.
Board games are a collaborativeeffort.
Watching shows like Doctor whoI have seen Doctor who multiple
times.
I watch all the way through.
I'm watching all of the classicwho, but something I love doing
is bringing someone new into itand showing them this thing.
That I absolutely love becauseit gets them excited for it.
(10:32):
It gets us excited to talktogether and be connective.
I am very much acommunity-oriented person and so
building that community andbuilding a group of people that
I can rely on and bring joytogether is really a big deal.
Also, with rest, board gamesaren't necessarily what you
(10:53):
think of in terms of resting,but sleep is not the only way to
rest.
Sometimes rest is doingsomething that doesn't require
focusing on.
Work, doesn't require being on,and that's a big thing.
For me is turning off theirworkouts fun things.
I am a giant nerd and I haveall sorts of nerdy interests,
(11:22):
and a lot of my clients are alsogiant nerds and so I'll name
their workouts things based ontheir nerdy interests.
I have a whole program that'sjust named after different
what's it called?
Zelda game things, and I useD&D things and like all sorts of
puns and it just it adds alittle extra spark of joy for
both me, because it makes mehappy to see that my clients are
(11:45):
excited and it makes themchuckle, so it's just like an
added little burst of positivity.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
Freaking love that, especially because, like you
could say, like we're going todo the Allons-y squats and
nobody would know like what thatis, except for like you and
your client, and it's like thatconnection.
You know, and I know, that allof us trainers have different
words for all of the exercisesFor real.
And secondly, it's not everyday I meet a fellow Whovian.
(12:10):
So who is your favorite doctor?
Nine is my doctor, okay, mine's10.
Nice.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yes, I love him.
His is nine.
It's not everybody's, that'srare, it is I really like I just
I really like nine.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I love him.
I am currently showing myfriend Dr who and we are in Matt
Smith.
We're like four episodes awayfrom the episode where we find
out that River is Amy's daughterand I am just like can we
freaking get?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
there.
Can we get there yet?
Oh my God, oh my.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
God.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
Yeah, it's so like.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I'm so excited about it.
It's crazy.
I love that.
I'm so excited for your friend,Okay so anyway, but yes.
I love everything you said.
Yep, my favorite board game iscalled Mysterium.
It's not even kind of like youknow, akira, it Mysterium.
It's not even kind of like youknow, akira.
It's not really a board game.
There's a ghost and you have tokind of like solve the murder
and the ghost gives you clues.
It's really cool and it's it'sbasically art.
(13:07):
So you put a bunch of cards andit's a piece of art.
But that piece of art you haveto think like the ghost, like
the ghost will give you a clueand you have to think what does
this piece?
Speaker 1 (13:22):
of art mean.
So it's you kind of have toknow who the ghost is.
It's really cool.
It's called Mysterium, okay,I'm looking it up right now.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
Is it my or mi, my, my, yeah, and Kira, what is your
favorite board game?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
my two favorite board games.
One is called Tales of theArabian Nights.
It's basically if you tookDungeons and Dragons and instead
of having a dungeon master,like telling you the story, you
have the book of tales.
Having a dungeon master tellingyou the story you have the book
of tales that you follow alongand tell the story of.
It's very silly.
It kind of goes through sort ofAladdin-themed like the 1001
(13:50):
Tales from Scheherazade.
I really like it because it's astorytelling game, so it's not
really competitive.
You're just like going aroundand seeing what happens to each
of the players.
And then the other one iscalled ricochet robot.
It is it is incrediblyfast-paced and incredibly
competitive, but basicallyyou're like trying to move these
(14:13):
little robot guys intodifferent spaces and you need to
do it in the most efficient waypossible, so like the least
number of moves.
Also, to give you an example ofsome of the workout titles I've
used, one is called SontaranTraining Camp, just for
reference.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
Wow, okay, I'm just so excited, andy, there's got to
be a game out there that youlike.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
Top two Operation and Clue.
Those are my two games.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
I love a good.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Clue.
I love a good Clue and I love agood Operation, but
non-dominant hand style.
Okay, that's how it goes down.
It's non-dominant hand style tomake everybody equally as
disadvantaged, becauseinclusivity that's how Andy
rocks in her house.
Everybody use your non-dominanthand.
There we go, we play Operation,but it's a lot of good times.
(15:01):
It forces you to encourage eachother and even if you're
frustrated, everyone's equallyas frustrated, but it forces an
encouraging interaction.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
And then it brings a lot of laughter too.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
It does, it's so much fun and don't let anybody have
any spirits in them, then theyreally hilarious.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
If you like clue, you should look into kill dr lucky.
It is the anti-clue.
Instead of trying to figure outwho killed the guy, you are
trying to be the one to do thekilling.
Wait one more time.
What's it called?
Kill dr lucky?
Speaker 1 (15:33):
we are very big on katana in my household and we
have many versions of it.
Ali haveie, have you everplayed what Allie?
You need to play the time.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I know, I know I've heard of it, but I'm so behind.
Speaker 1 (15:45):
You need to play it.
What else do I like to play?
We play a lot of card games.
We do play a lot of card games,but I play Mahjong.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
I obsessed with that.
That's excellent.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yes, I have Mahjong as well.
I have the um, the characters,yeah, like the tiles, and you
know what you need to get.
Your has a question on this,marjan ali.
At what age did you learn toplay it?
I am not an ageist, by no means, but when I learned, I learned
from an older person and peoplemy age is like a lost card game.
People my age don't play it.
And so for you to say I lovethis game, I'm like whoa, who
(16:22):
taught you Because it is a lostthing it is.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
It is actually learned a couple years ago.
But my mom used to host amahjong uh club and when I lived
in a camp in saudi arabia andso, uh, for years like I'm
talking, I guess, when we movedthere in like 2000, so her
friends in saudi taught her inlike 2000 but they played the.
We play the chinese version,not the american version.
(16:48):
The american version is harder,I believe, uh, but we play like
the base, like the bare bareminimum Chinese version.
So, yeah, a couple years ago Ilearned, but it's so much fun I
love it.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I learned growing up in elementary.
My best friend, her mom, isfrom the Philippines and she
would have these massive partieswith all of her Filipino
friends and we were allowed toparticipate and eat all the food
which I miss, I miss, I miss, Imiss.
And they would bring us in andthey'd have several tables set
up to play Mahjong and we wereplaying with actual physical
(17:20):
tiles.
I feel like so many peoplenowadays think it's just an app
on your phone.
No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
You've never done that.
You got to play it with theclanking of the tiles.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
It's much more fun.
I love it, I love it, I love it.
But every time people sayMahjong, I picture these very,
very tiny, short Filipino women.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I am really amused by this conversation because I
also learned when I was veryyoung from my grandmother.
She had all of her and herneighbors would play together.
They taught me to play.
She had all of her and herneighbors would play together.
They taught me to play.
But in atlanta there is amahjong club.
One of the jewish synagogueshas a club that they play
regularly I am so mad that Ididn't know about that when I
lived there goodness I wouldhave been there, I would have
(18:02):
taken you, we could have gone.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I'm absolutely goodness gracious.
yeah, that sounds so much fun.
I would have already said thiskind of before, but to make the
workouts enjoyable and fun andgeared towards the person.
So when we're chronically ill,I get this question a lot as a
trainer as well how do wemotivate our clients to get back
into it when we're just reallystruggling?
I think how you make it, youconnect their nerdiness to it
(18:26):
gets them excited.
My advice was always like getexcited about your workout.
Somehow.
For me, I love to do my firstsips before I do my workout,
which is me drinking coffeebefore I work out and I dance,
or I love to drink mypre-workout and dance.
But if, like I had a Doctor whorelated workout, I would be so
excited, like Alonzi squats or,how you said, the Centurion
(18:46):
workout.
That's amazing, like I wouldfreak.
So I love that you do thatbecause it gets them excited to
work as well when they don'twant to.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
So this is my advice Come up with some kind of
questionnaire for your clients.
You can find that way to bringthem in and get them to feel
like you're relating to them.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Even if you're not, do you have that?
Do you have a questionnaire foryour?
Speaker 3 (19:05):
clients I do.
So.
The way that I go through myprocess is, when a new client
comes in, we set up a consultcall and I have an assessment
form.
A lot of it is more of theintake form stuff like what kind
of meds do you take?
What kind of experience do youhave?
Do you have any illnesses orpain points or injuries?
(19:26):
What are you looking for goals?
But one of the questions in itis what do you do in your free
time?
What are your hobbies?
Then, when we have that consultcall, we talk a little bit more
about it.
I explain why I'm asking thatquestion Frequently.
People will get excited aboutthat just because of the idea of
hey, I'm going to make it sillyand fun for them.
One of the things I do with myonline clients is I use an app
(19:48):
called Trainerize.
There's a function where I havea group setting so all of my
clients can interact with eachother.
But every day I ask them aquestion and it gives them an
opportunity to like interactwith each other.
It gives them an opportunity tolike also be creative and get
involved.
Usually it's really sillyquestions.
I have asked questions like ifyou could have a fitness-related
(20:11):
superpower, what would it be?
Or what kind of exercise do youthink your favorite cartoon
character would do Silly thingslike that?
The one I've been mostly askingrecently is what's bringing you
joy right now?
So it's a way to engage them alittle bit more in different
ways and have them thinkingabout fitness in a way that
isn't the you have to loseweight in order to be a good
(20:33):
person.
It gives them a way to buildmore creativity within their
health and fitness journeys sothey can feel good about and
feel more engaged with it.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
I love that.
Yeah, if I dropped into yourDMs and I said, hey, I want to
sign up, I want some help, whatwould you ask?
What would you ask me aboutmyself?
The first question.
Speaker 3 (20:52):
I always ask is what are you looking for?
I want to get a sense of howyou're talking about things and
how you're talking aboutyourself and what your goals are
.
One of the common things that Iget is I want to lose weight,
but I can't do the things andI'm bad at X, y and Z.
That gives me a lot ofinformation about how they are
(21:14):
viewing fitness, how they arestarting and where they are, so
I can guide them and build thedirection in a way that feels
better for both of us.
Yeah, I tend to start with theno-nonsense what are we?
Speaker 1 (21:28):
doing first, if I were to drop into your DM and
I'm like, hey, I'm Jen, I'm over40.
I've had shoulder surgery, gotphysical therapy, but I'm still
having issues within my shoulder.
Love mountain bike riding, lovehiking, live in the Pacific
Northwest, have a grandson.
I used to love to rollerblade,love to play Catan, love coffee.
If that is all I gave you forinformation, what would write
(21:50):
back to Jen?
We're all kind of curious tosee, like, how does your brain
work?
What would you think if that'swhat I came at you with first?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
I would say something like sounds like you do a lot
of really great physicalactivity already and you you
clearly have a good sense ofwhat your body can do.
What are you looking for?
What are your goals?
What brought you to?
I think that we would be agreat fit.
Based on what you're telling me, it sounds like you have a good
sense of who you are and whatyou need.
(22:16):
The next step is that we wouldset up a consult call, and
here's how to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Allie, I'm kind of curious.
What would you say Along thesame lines?
Speaker 3 (22:24):
I'd be like babes, you are slaying if you're doing
all these things.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
You're hiking, you're doing this and that, and also
you're so much fun, too, playinggames like hello.
I would talk about coffee, ofcourse, because you know I'd be
like have you seen my first sips?
Because we can, we can discusscoffee, what's your favorite?
And then, yeah, I would say thesame thing, like what are you
looking for that I can help youwith you.
Like are you looking for aworkout schedule?
Are you working?
Are you looking to doone-on-ones?
Are you looking for like Iwould Are you working?
Are you looking to do one onones?
Are you looking for it?
Like, I would like to know whatyou want in me and why you came
to me and then, and then Iwould do the same thing, like,
all right, cool, this sounds alot of fun.
(22:58):
Let's have a consult call andthen we'll talk more about your
goals and I'll do like anassessment with you and we'll
see where you're at.
That's what I would do.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
I need to know You're so welcome for that and it is,
you know you don't even havepeople overcomplicate this and I
just kind of want to dial itback.
Let's start with the firstthing you said was I don't have
(23:25):
it in me to do it.
It starts with how you addressit.
Right, if we're making it fun,if we've already made it a chore
before we even start doing thechore, it is going to feel like
a chore.
You like the challenges and youcan do those same things with
the challenges without thechallenge kicking off.
So then it becomes what is theactual roadblock?
(23:47):
What it actually is is that youprefer or you thrive in
community and you feel like it'snot as fun when you have to do
it by yourself.
It's not even an accountabilitything.
You're just more encouragedwhen you do it with your
community.
But you started it off with I'vefailed and I've gained 20
pounds.
(24:07):
A lot of elements goes intothat, right, what was your
stress level like?
How was your sleep?
Did any of your medicationschange?
What was the environment?
So when I work with people andthey're like well, I did that, I
gained.
Okay, yes, we're going to gain.
Yep, that weight's going tofluctuate, but I'm going to go
all the way down to the root.
(24:32):
Let's figure out what all ofthese lifestyle things are, the
things that are core to yourbody's restoration.
First we can tweak all theother things, but I'm going to
start with tweaking how you talkto you, about you and in
reference to anything that youare doing, and then we address
the fitness aspect, because Ican't address the fitness aspect
if the mountain is you and thatmountain's in your mind.
We got to climb that mountainfirst and then you go.
(24:54):
Why do I really just like thesechallenges?
You like the challenges becauseyou like the fun pictures that
come associated with it and youthink it makes you feel 100
percent connected with thecommunity.
That may also be embracing thesuck of the do 100 burpees
challenge.
That may also be embracing thesuck of the do 100 burpees
challenge, right, so now youhave other people embracing the
suck with you.
It's the community that youcrave.
(25:16):
It's not that you cannot do theexercises or you cannot commit,
it's the community that youcrave.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
You are really right.
I wish everyone could see rightnow that all of you are nodding
with me and that that's reallyit and you're right.
I mean, we all know I lovecommunity, but I love not
feeling alone in the task.
I love checking that box.
There's something great aboutchecking a box the dopamine
booster ADHD people love it too.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
Okay plot twist.
I feel like we are slaves tochecking the box, though, and it
causes extra and unwarrantedanxiety in the moments where we
cannot check that box off,because we're so used to doing,
being going and showing up thatwe often put things on that list
that aren't priorities, but itwas for the sake of us being
(26:06):
doing, going and showing upbecause we're used to doing that
.
But how often do we put the boxto check?
Sit in stillness.
What's my chest?
My stress temperature?
What does that look like?
Do nothing today.
Can we check that off?
I did nothing today.
Check that off.
You see what I'm saying.
I allow my body toself-regulate.
(26:27):
Check that off.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, and that's really important to do and we
should add it to our list.
And also, I just read the bookADHD is Awesome and love it.
Highly recommend listeners tolisten to the book.
It's so good.
But he was saying the authorwas like ADHD, yours love it
like to check off that box.
So sometimes I will, likeyou're saying like once I'm done
something, I'll write it in myplanner once it's complete and
(26:50):
then I'll check off the box.
And I'm like, oh, and if Ican't check off the box, I don't
beat myself up.
I actually put a really cutesticker over it and hide it and
then I add it to the list that Ihave in the future.
That I know I can do.
But we should add to our boxessit still and you know, and do
those things as well.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
So one of my favorite notepads and I used this at
work, but I even use this athome now is this a notepad that
has basically one of them isthat it has to be done today,
and then there's one for needsto be done this week or needs to
be done at some point.
I love that because then I canwrite down my immediate needs,
if there's tasks I have to getdone today, and it could be
(27:29):
things like I need to eat today,I need to drink water today, I
need to get out of bed today.
You know, it can be somethingsimple like that, I think making
that list, prioritizing thethings we need to do and
including in that the sitting instillness, sitting in quiet,
giving ourself grace, all ofthat.
But those notebooks.
Those notebooks, life changingfor me.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
And Kara, I'm curious what is, in your opinion, the
hardest thing when it comes topeople with ADHD and exercising?
Coming from personal experienceand also with your clients,
what do you think is our biggestchallenge with that?
Oh, I know we're all differenttoo.
Like I'm not trying to put usin a box, I think I think the
biggest thing, particularlyright now.
Speaker 3 (28:09):
There's a huge boom of people getting late diagnosed
.
I think, especially if you area late diagnosed ADHD-er, we
were taught throughout our livesthat because we weren't doing
the thing, we were lazy, we werenot good enough, we were bad or
whatever.
The stigma is of not doing thething the way that we're
(28:30):
supposed to, in the time framethat we're supposed to.
Really like, pulling ourselvesaway from the box that society
tells us we're supposed to be inand allowing ourselves to be
who we are, is a big piece of it.
For myself, like I'm a programhopper, I cannot stick to a
program for very long.
I get bored immediately.
(28:51):
I was always taught thatprogram hopping is bad and
you're not supposed to do that.
I always felt shame about it.
But at the end of the day, whatactually matters if you're on
some kind of health and fitnessjourney is that you are doing
something.
It doesn't matter what it is,as long as it is something that
you can do and you can doconsistently.
I have allowed myself to programhop For a lot of my ADHD
(29:16):
clients, particularly ones whoget bored really easily.
Normally I do a two-week programcycle so that they have a
larger number of workouts thatthey can pull from, based on how
they're feeling and whatthey're thinking that day.
For myself, I have a two-weekcycle of workouts plus a play
day, which is for me to go tothe gym and do whatever I'm
(29:38):
feeling and try new exercisesthat I've never done before, and
I have a couple of other randomworkouts that I can pull in and
out based on how I'm feeling inthe moment.
It's really about pulling backthe shame and trying to
acknowledge that all of thesethings that we were taught when
we were young are no longerserving us, and pushing it away
(29:59):
so that you feel less, becauseif you're sitting here feeling
shamed about not doing thethings in the way that you're
supposed to do them, it makes ita lot harder to do the things
because you are sitting therejust feeling bad about it
instead of doing what makessense for you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
I agree.
Speaker 3 (30:15):
I really want to know about this internal bra Andy.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Oh, yes, I love when people ask me that question.
So it is a real thing and it'sall in how you do fly.
So women tend not to hit theirchest at all of the angles.
Right by science, body byiconiconic.
This is one of these moments.
Women have to hit all theangles.
Why?
Because your boobs cuff at allthe angles.
So if you're doing flies andyou're normally doing it this
(30:41):
way, hit it at the lower angle,come in at 45 degrees.
That's going to give you yourlift.
You're going to come in thisway.
You're going to hit it at allof the angles and then make sure
you're drop setting right.
Make sure you're drop setting,why it builds the bra underneath
.
Here them girls come up here.
You're just like, yay, they'reback to where they need to be
and you correct your posture.
(31:03):
But as you're doing your fliesat all the angles, make sure
you're working your lower backas well, so that you really did
correct your posture and it isjust a natural progression of
the pull-up of your muscle.
Y'all couldn't see the video,but I gave an example that is
brilliant.
Speaker 3 (31:18):
I'm obsessed with it and I have now learned something
, and that might be my favoritething that happened all day.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It is You're going to watch the change.
You're going to be like wait aminute, why does this lift it?
I work with teenage, teenageathlete a lot of teenage
athletes and of course they'relike how come my boobs don't
look like, okay, it is.
It's gonna feel strange becauseit's.
It's one of the movements thatI do the most with males,
because they want to taper outlike a triangle, but women don't
(31:45):
understand that.
It does the same thing for them.
Only we have things thatprotrude.
Dudes just have puffy areolas.
It's building their internalbra, but it makes their pecs
look huge.
It's the exact same concept.
Well, building the internal bramakes our boobs look bigger,
except they're not bigger.
They just sit where they'resupposed to sit.
(32:05):
Finally, I like that.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Thank you, Not me over here.
You know what makes me mad.
The first one that came up whenI googled it was surgery.
It was showing implants.
It was showing implants to go inand do the internal bra.
No, no, no, no, no.
That's not what I'm asking for,but it's my goal.
I'm 44 years old, but I haveamazing boobs.
I really do.
I don't mean to sound intomyself.
(32:28):
I have very firm, very in placeboobs, but I want to make sure
they stay that way.
I just do.
I mean it's like my goal.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
I want to be 60 and have them where they should be.
I don't want them going to myknees.
So, jen, when you reach out tous as trainers and our DMs, that
would be a great thing to sayLike what goal?
Like Kira said, like what'syour goal?
I want my boobs to be up andready to go for when I'm older.
So yeah, and then, andy, wouldbe like I have this internal bra
, yep.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, if you would have slid into my inbox and said
I no longer want to kick aroundmy areolas, I would have been
like you know what I got youInternal bra.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
Yeah, Because you know I'm obviously being honest
with you guys that I've gainedweight and I want to lose my
weight, but my biggest goal isactually looking at what I want
to be ahead of time.
So what do I want to look atwhen I'm 60?
Because I have the energy and Ihave the time and I have the
desire now.
So how can I make sure that bythe time I reach 60, I'm there
(33:24):
and how can I keep it there?
Because I don't want to be 60and having my boobs touching the
ground?
If a listener is curious aboutworking with you, what's the
best way for them to get started?
I am on.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Instagram as chaoticgoodfitness23, or my
website.
My Instagram is basically memaking silly reels.
Some of them are little snippetsuggestions for how to do
whatever kind of thing.
Some of them are silly, like Idid a series of what exercise
you would be based on yourzodiac sign recently With my
(33:58):
website.
It's chaoticgoodfitnesscom.
You can use that to look up myprices, look up a little bit
more of my vibes and get mybasic concepts of how I work.
Work gives you all the lists ofmy services and that is where
you can get the link to set upand a consult call.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
What's next for Chaotic Good Fitness?
Are there any exciting projectsor goals that you are working
towards?
Speaker 3 (34:26):
My focus goal right now is creating systems, so my
ADHD stops getting the best ofme.
I am great with my business,but also I have a giant messy
Google folder and all of thisstuff and I'm trying to make it
nicer and easier for myself todo.
In terms of projects, the mainthing I'm most excited about
(34:47):
right now is I'm in the processof making a couple of ebooks and
programs specifically focusedon certain hobbies.
So, like I am a crafter Icrochet and I sew and I have a
program that is built aroundbeing able to continue to be
able to craft when I am 80 yearsold and not be too
(35:08):
uncomfortable to do it.
And then I also really likegoing and dancing live music
shows and stuff.
I am working on a program forhow to be able to dance forever.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Those are the two good ones.
Yes, we truly appreciate yougiving us your time to chat.
Thank you, it was so much funchatting with you.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Kira Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (35:28):
I really appreciate it.
It was really good to get toknow you.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
All right, Spoonies, Until next time.
Don't forget your spoon.
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