April 5, 2025 • 51 mins
Chronic illness impacts every aspect of our lives, including the bedroom. In this refreshingly candid conversation, we break down the walls of shame and silence surrounding sexuality when living with chronic conditions.
Ali returns from her mountain cabin retreat to share how her diagnosis completely changed her relationship with intimacy—once a proudly sexual person who even won a Thunder Down Under fake orgasm contest (with her mother cheering her on!), years of severe symptoms and medication side effects left her disinterested in physical connection. Only after prioritizing rest and health did she reconnect with that part of herself – a journey many Spoonies can relate to.
The discussion expands into how religious upbringings compound these challenges. From Catholic households to Mormon traditions, many of us received messages of fear and shame rather than education about our bodies. Jen's mother joins the conversation, offering fascinating insights into Mormon temple practices, including special garments with symbolic markings and secret names women aren't allowed to speak. Her powerful story of liberation – shouting her temple name from a mountaintop – demonstrates how breaking free from restrictive beliefs can be part of our healing journey.
Personal stories range from embarrassing (smuggling a vibrator through Middle Eastern customs) to deeply concerning (the lack of comprehensive sex education in today's schools). We examine how gender expectations shaped our understanding of roles within relationships and how breaking these generational patterns through open, honest conversations can create healthier foundations for our children.
Whether you're struggling with reclaiming your sexuality through chronic illness or want to better understand how illness impacts intimacy, this episode offers validation, laughter, and a reminder that your experiences deserve to be acknowledged without shame. Join us for this profoundly human conversation about one of the most natural yet seldom-discussed aspects of the Spoonie experience.
Are you living with a chronic illness and want to make your voice heard? Rare Patient Voice connects patients and caregivers with research opportunities—so you can share your experiences and get paid for your time! Your insights help drive real change in healthcare.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters
Podcast.
It is your co-host, allie.
I have been MIA for the pastcouple episodes and, baby, I am
back, ready to chat and ready tospice things up a little bit,
but I have missed you guys somuch to our listeners and to our
other hosts.
I have missed y'all.
(00:21):
I have been on a little retreat, if you will say.
I have been in a cabin in thewoods, in the mountains, trying
to take a break from socialmedia and screens and, baby, it
has helped heal me a little bitnot fully because, baby, that
doesn't exist in our Spoonielife.
It has been nice, but I missyou and we are here with another
random Spoonie sister chat andwe are so excited, I am very
(00:46):
excited about today's topic.
Well, today's topic is startingoff strong, with a little bit of
spice, but then we'll get intothe most random things.
I'm sure we were just sittinghere chatting about sex.
Yes, something that isdifferent for all of us,
especially us Spoonies, the waywe experience it, the way that
we forget about it because ofpain.
Somebody was just saying abouthow their diagnosis got them
(01:08):
actually more spicy.
For me it was the opposite.
When I got really ill.
I completely ignored all thingsabout sex.
And now let me tell yousomething.
I love sex.
I think it's amazing.
I hate that it is a forbiddentopic.
I hate that it's taboo.
I think it makes us women verypowerful and can be seen in such
(01:29):
a beautiful light.
But the way that we were allbrought up like everybody I'm
sure here, all of us co-hosts itwas probably taboo.
I've never had a friend thatsay, growing up it wasn't a
taboo subject, and for me it wastoo.
I grew up in a very religiousCatholic family and so sex was
not talked about at all.
I mean, I had the chat, buteven then I was like please, mom
, no, no.
(01:49):
But so I was a very sexualbeing.
I was very proud of it, to thepoint where I would post
pictures on Instagram and mytoys would be in the back.
That was what I was going tosay.
And my friend commented and waslike Allie, your toy is on your
bed in the back.
And I'm like listen, that'sfine.
So sexual that when my momfound my box of toys, didn't
even question me and just put itin my bedside drawer.
I was like where's that box?
(02:10):
As we're unpacking, she goes,don't worry, put it in your
bedside drawer.
Also coming from the girl who,at the age of 21, went to Vegas
with her said mom and three bestfriends and won a fake orgasm
competition on stage with theThunder Down Under strippers.
I beat three bridesmaids andwon that competition and my mom
was there and you know what shedid.
(02:31):
She turned to my friends andsaid she's going to win this.
And I won it.
I am proud Look at Andy's face.
I am proud of the sexual personthat I am.
But when I got sick now, I gotdiagnosed at the age of 15 with
juvenile idiopathic arthritis,but I went into remission for
six years after that because Ihad surgery.
When I got sick again at theage of 21, I was unable to walk.
(02:52):
I was starting methotrexate,which is not a fun drug to start
.
I was sick, I was nauseous.
I would say 10 years after thatI was not in the mood ever.
I was tired, I was nauseous.
I was not in the mood ever.
I was tired, I was nauseous.
I was overworked as well, sothat it plays into it, but I was
not in the mood for sex.
Poor Travis, I was just not.
I was just too tired, and itwasn't until I quit my jobs and
(03:14):
got enough sleep and reallystarted to focus on my health
and read smutty books that I getit back.
So yeah, I was the opposite,and I know if you guys don't
want to talk about it, you don'thave to, but I was wondering
how you guys felt dealing withyour chronic illness and keeping
things spicy in the bedroom.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Like you, it was very taboo.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Which is interesting because of course I was raised
Mormon but we stopped going tochurch when I was 12.
So it was interesting to watchthat shift.
When I was in high school, mymom would go to the sex shop.
When I got married, she boughtme a toy.
Your mom did.
It was a glow-in-the-dark toy.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I don't have one.
I need one now.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And it was because she said that every woman needs
one.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I love that.
I love that, especially in hergeneration.
Like that's not.
Yeah, maybe it was because theywere Mormon.
I love sex stores.
A part of why I'm so sexual andspiritual about it is could be
because I grew up in SaudiArabia, where clearly there are
no sex stores and no talk of sexand you can't even show skin.
So it's probably a little bitas to why I'm so open, because I
(04:23):
grew up in such a place thatwomen couldn't even work or
drive.
I think that has to do with itas well.
I did bring a sex toy into thecountry and I did get caught
that way.
Luckily I was in the countrynext door, so I was in Bahrain,
which is where we would fly into.
I was going to be in Italy.
I was going to be in Italy forsix months studying abroad, and
I was single.
So I had to bring a littlesomething with me and I brought
(04:45):
a little toy.
Luckily it was not in the shapeof a you know what.
That would make it obvious.
It was in like kind of like acrescent moon shape.
And, yeah, the guy who found itin my luggage because they
check your luggage before youleave the airport, not like here
.
He took it out and he was likewhat is this?
I was like I had to think onthe spot.
I was like I had to think onthe spot.
(05:09):
I was like, okay, my ass tookit from his hand, turned it on,
put it on my shoulder and saidit's a shoulder massager.
I'm standing in an airport.
This man is dressed in auniform, an army uniform, in
Bahrain, in a Middle Easterncountry.
I'm standing there with a sextoy on my shoulder vibrating.
I'm with a straight face,saying it is a shoulder massager
, sir.
He looks at me, he goes, put itaway.
He closes up my bag.
I leave, he lets me go.
(05:30):
My mom is waiting for me outside, smiles.
She's like you're here, let'sgo get Krispy Kremes, because
it's the only Krispy Kreme placein the country.
It's at the airport and she'sexcited and jazzed.
It's our tradition.
We always get Krispy Kremes.
I grab her hand, I drag her outof the airport.
I'm like mom, now is not thetime to get Krispy Kremes, we
need to get in the car and leave.
She's like what?
(05:50):
Why is your face so red?
I'm like I just pulled out mysex toy and turned it on for the
guard.
We need to leave back.
Did I bring it to Italy?
I don't even know.
I think I was so mortified Idon't think I brought it with me
.
It stayed in Saudi.
The fact that I got through itwas that's how I didn't dare
(06:13):
bring it back to the Bahrainiairport.
I was mortified, I didn't.
It stayed in Saudi, it threw itaway.
This was something elsehappened.
My mom had guests over and itwas in the bedside drawer and I
had to tell her Mom, you'regoing to have to move that
because they were staying in myroom.
I'm like, oh shit, this, it'salways there.
And so, yeah, she had to moveit.
In Saudi, the guys go throughyour trash, not like the dirty
(06:34):
trash, but other trash.
I'm sitting in the kitchenwatching them and I'm like this
toy is.
It's cursed.
The toy's cursed.
They threw it back in the trash.
They didn't know what it was.
But my mom is like, allie, you,no, you cannot bring those into
the.
I never did again, but yeah, soit could be.
(06:54):
Living in Saudi Arabia is thereason I am so sexual.
It is taboo to talk about, butthat's why I love talking about
it so much, because I followmany people online who talk
about it.
I even follow a woman who'slike in fitness who.
Have you guys seen her?
Where she teaches youcomfortable positions to have
sex in and like ways to do itthat won't hurt your knees?
I'm obsessed with her.
I will share it with you guys.
(07:14):
She's amazing.
I think she's in Atlanta, whichmakes me sad that when I lived
there I never went to one of hercourses.
But yeah, it's so important Ihave not seen her, but why
haven't you sent her to us?
I post her all the time I am ona social media break but I will
go find her and post her.
But I love her sessions.
She does all the ways to do itwithout hurting your knees and
stuff, andy, yes, so here's thething.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Andy has entered the chat.
Oh, here's the thing.
I am over here baffled, I'm noteven gonna lie to you, I'm over
here baffled, and if peoplecould see me in real life, I
think I kicked my chin like sixtimes because my mouth has been
wide open.
Pause, nothing naughty.
(07:58):
My mouth has been on the floor.
To which part All of it.
All of it, the me at 21 winningthe prize of the thunder down
under the mama there my momsaying I'm gonna win jenny at
the, at the at the toy storewith mom with her mom, yeah
there is no way.
There is no way.
(08:19):
My mama, my grandm, none of myaunts, I don't recall even
having the conversation aboutwhat parts went where we were
touching fronts.
Yeah, we didn't even have thetouch fronts, or don't let the
tips touch, kind of conversationit was.
I guess you're going to findout.
We don't talk about thosethings.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I guess you're going to find out.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So, like kudos, you knowudos to the, the empowerment
and the freedom that comes withtalking about it.
I didn't realize howuncomfortable moment of
transparency guys, I didn'trealize how uncomfortable I
actually was going to be sittingin this conversation, but also
how empowering it is to see thatthe outside perception of this
being so taboo, it's really noteverybody's company for real.
(09:05):
At some point in timesomebody's gonna touch fronts
like we're gonna go let, we'regonna be belly button the belly
button at some point in time,that's you know, we're gonna be
belly button the belly button.
And I think where we were, mygeneration might have had a
hiccup is that we didn't havethe conversation in any capacity
(09:26):
.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And so for me, I made sure that I started having the
conversation with my daughter assoon as her body started
changing, because we need toidentify these parts.
They're not the pocketbook,it's not your cookie jar.
If they touch you, they touchyou.
I want to know why, I want toknow where, and you need to know
it's not okay if you don't feelsafe with it.
But it was teaching her all thethings that I wish I would have
(09:49):
had the conversation when I wasyounger.
I had a lot of questions when Ifinally decided that I was ready
to start touching fronts andthat was later than the average
person in most of the time.
But when I decided that it wastime for me to start being
active, I had a whole lot ofquestions and it was rooted in
fear, because that is literallyhow I was raised that touch and
(10:12):
fronts ended up being with myperson that you go on to be with
for double digit decades andwhatnot you know.
But there was so much fearassociated with if I make this
decision to give my body or I'mnot supposed to talk about it,
what if it gets out of people'swill give you the scarlet letter
.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
But the scarlet letter for the thing that is
natural.
It's natural If we're here toprocreate.
If we go all the way back tolike for me biblically it was,
you're not supposed to do this,okay, you're not supposed to do
it, got it.
But if we go back to the rootof it and our bodies were meant
to procreate, then theconversation of this is your
(10:53):
body and how it works.
And if this is happening andyou don't feel safe, then they
actually need to know what thatlooks like, that it is a natural
thing, and there's also peopleout there that do unnatural
things using the naturalexperience that can victimize
you.
But I had no idea howuncomfortable this conversation
was going to make it.
Like I am not, but not a bad,uncomfortable, just like a wow.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You're aware you're like wow, so yeah that's kind of
where I'm at Like I, we did notdiscuss it.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I had brothers, so I was the only girl.
I was almost raised as an onlychild because of our age
differences.
I had sister-in-laws.
My first sister-in-law came inthe marriage when I was four,
but sex even then with them wasa taboo conversation.
Sister-in-law, because I gaineda little weight in high school,
(11:46):
thought I was having sex.
So since that, like, I reallystruggled with not wanting
because, oh, you mean I have,I'm gonna gain weight, like now.
Of course that's not how thathappens, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was told that my hips were gonna spread.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yes, so I'm saying yeah, so it just, and I'm like,
so I put on some weight, I amsexually active.
So then I just did not want totalk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, the fear, the fear of like Also.
That's not like you don't wantthat to be, even if you were
being sexually active.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
It doesn't need to be shout to the rooftops because
I've never heard of this beforeand nobody and no, and like my
family, I did not discuss who myfirst was, when my first was
like nothing.
It was not discussed.
I got my first toy for awedding gift, a bridal.
It was my bachelorette party.
Do you know where it went?
In the trash.
I will be honest, 100 honest.
(12:35):
It went in the trash because Idid not know what to do with it
and none of my girlfriends.
We didn't talk.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
No, over here like about to cry no, no, no, no,
she's laughing, she's laughing.
Can I use this interlude totell you something?
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
My mother.
I am in love.
Can I say what your mom justsaid?
Sure, Her mom said what happensin the bedroom stays in the
bedroom and Jenny was liketalking about toys and she goes.
They should be organized bytexture and hashtag batteries.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yes, I am dying that she hashtagged the batteries.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yes, the part you might not see is I said we're
talking about SEX and I don'tknow why I spelled it out.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Because that's how we're raised.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I said I should bite you in.
I love this, I love this, butthe other thing that I sent to
you.
I looked up sex in the Bible.
This is 1 Corinthians 7.
Now, concerning the mattersabout which you wrote, it is
good for man not to have sexualrelations with a woman.
(13:38):
Okay, interesting.
But because of the temptationto sexual immorality, each man
should have his own wife andeach woman her own husband.
The husband should give to hiswife her conjugal rights and
likewise the wife to her husband.
I'm pretty sure my husband'staken that verse and sent it to
me many times.
Just that verse, that one verse.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Just saying Conjugal rights Do not deprive one
another, except perhaps byagreement for a limited time.
Flee from sexual immortality.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Every other sin a person commits is outside the
body, but the sexual and so yesso we're raised not to talk
about it, but it is still in thebible and it does tell you to
do it.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But it also says the woman deserves it as well.
It's not just for the man andso we do it.
We just don't talk about itExactly, but I think there's
some groups where women have todo it because the man wants it.
It's not about her.
Yeah, it's not about herenjoyment, I don't you know.
(14:40):
But I also think in somerelationship I mean, I've had
friends that their husbands didthings they didn't like, but
they felt forced, they had to.
You know what I?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
mean kalisi.
Yeah, in game of thrones whenshe first got married.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
She didn't know, and she, uh, basically, was bent
over, and here you take it, yeahand lenea your friends that you
know just did it right.
If they were raised withmothers who or fathers, I don't
know I would be more comfortablewith a mother talking about
what is and isn't correct.
That's also another reason Iwant to nip this in the bud with
(15:15):
it being taboo, Because if youhad these open conversations
with your mother, you would knowthat that is not okay and that
is not what you need to do,Exactly Like how Andy sang
talking about it with herdaughter.
That's amazing, Like we none ofus really well, maybe Jenny,
but as much as I love my mom andI love that she's like powerful
about, you know, being sexualnowadays like we didn't have
that conversation as a kid, youknow.
(15:36):
So, yeah, that makes me sad.
I wish that they had thoseconversations.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And my.
There was no having thisconversation with my mom.
My mom was in her late 40s whenI was born and what I learned
was from that sex ed class infourth, fifth grade where you
learn about your period.
But my daughter knows I didteach my daughter.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
What baffled me is that the women in our lives knew
right and obviously there wasproof because they had kids
right but we never had theconversation about whether or
not they felt safe in doing it,whether or not they were ready
to do it, what that looked like.
We didn't talk about whether ornot it was going to hurt and
what to expect if it did hurtand how to care for yourself
(16:20):
afterwards and all of the things.
We didn't have thoseconversations.
And those conversations areimportant because a lot does
happen to your body.
When you give yourself for thefirst time, there's a lot of
change that happens.
But if no one ever has theconversation, you will go into
something that's very naturaland the after effect of the
something natural youimmediately panic and think that
(16:41):
there is a medical emergency oryou start to question you over
something that's very natural.
I think that the conversationshould be had more, even if it's
in kid doses, in small, microdoses.
The conversation needs to behad with the young lady more and
by women, so that they are notbelieving anything they hear
(17:02):
from the person that wants toput something in their hole, so
they know that their bodies aremade for some pretty phenomenal
things and will respond in somereally alarming ways.
If you're not particular aboutthe sausage you let in your
factory, it literally can endhorribly and what that looks
like for you as the female, howthat presents and why you should
(17:23):
be inspecting the things thatyou decide that you want to
ingest, in whatever capacity youwant to ingest it, but
understanding what that lookslike from all aspects outside of
just the fear angle, the fearand the angle you know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
think about how awful things have happened because of
them, instilling fear into usabout sex, when it could have
been the other way around.
Think of, like, all the thingsthat have happened.
Think about the women who havenever had an orgasm by their
husband because they don't evenknow what that is, or that they
don't know that sex can feelgood.
Think about like.
All teenagers are rebellious.
I'm rebellious.
That's why I had sex.
I'm rebellious.
(17:59):
I didn't know anything about it.
They want to do rebelliousthings and if they're not
educated on it, they're going tofigure it out for themselves.
Teenagers are going to be doingit, no matter what and, if you
consent, like in, just talkabout how it shouldn't be feared
and no matter what age you aredoing it.
(18:31):
Obviously kids shouldn't bedoing it.
We could just talk to them andjust be open about it and just
think of how things would havebeen different.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It wasn't until I was in my early 20s when I got
married that we talked about it.
I wish that we would have talkedabout it when I was younger
because, like we're saying, weneed to have these conversations
.
I annoy and disgust my daughterall the time, but that's
because I want her to have theinformation.
I want her to feel comfortableand I want her to know that she
can come to me with questionswithout me saying this is what I
(19:02):
do.
She doesn't need to know aboutwhat we do in the bedroom, but
what I want her to know is thatshe can ask me all the questions
if there's something that comesup.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Give them the resources right there are so
many resources and books and tolet them know it's okay to you
know, explore their sexuality aslong as they're being safe, and
consent in all of the things.
I don't know what sex educationin school is like in the US.
I only did it in Saudi and itwas such BS.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
They don't have it anymore.
They don't have it.
My kids did not have it.
Now I will say my son.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They don't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
No, my son has.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
They don't have sex in or home in.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, what?
No?
We used to no.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Nope, they don't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Jj and his middle school.
They talked about it.
Where Amanda went, they didn'tbecause it was a K-8 traditional
school.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And now they separate them and they talk to the girls
specifically about periods andpregnancy, and then they talk to
the boys.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
But they don't even do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
They don't do it anymore At all.
You get the period talk fifthgrade.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Period talk, starting in like fourth or fifth grade,
and they did it every year afterthat.
Sixth grade, yeah, but then inhigh school in our health class
they did talk about sex but itwas mostly about STDs and mostly
there was a lot of laughing andmaking fun and jokes.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, that's interesting that it's not
happening.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Health classes my husband used to the company he
worked for in Kansas.
They used to have a healthsection.
It's like that.
They talked about differenthealth issues, but it was how to
take your blood pressure.
What's the blood pressure mean?
It was those type of typicalclinical health things.
If you wanted to go intohealthcare as a job, that was it
(20:46):
.
I don't think there's anyschool in Arizona that has a
class like that.
If there is, it's not where mykids go to school or went to
school at, but it's very sad.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Do any of you know if they still do this?
Where I grew up, if a girl gotpregnant, she actually got
removed from being in a regularschool with us and at first I
thought it was because like anembarrassment thing, but what I
later found out is it's a wholeseparate building that has child
care for after they give birthand everything they don't do
that anymore bummer, becausethey teach a lot of stuff okay
(21:18):
now you go to an alternativeschool for real, for real, not
attached to the school.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I've never heard this .
And and now they don't even dothat.
You just pregnant in school andthen that's the way it is here.
You can go virtual after youhave the baby.
You can go virtual so you canfinish.
But they're not providingdaycare.
They're not sending you toalternative schools anymore.
They're like oh, you're havinga baby, cool, your classmates,
not y'all in the same class.
So you're having a baby and youin chemistry, so come to class,
(21:46):
bring a.
You got a morning sickness bag,bring that with you.
But come to chemistry.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
OK Dang, yeah, they here.
They've had girls at the highschool when I worked at the high
school that were pregnant andthey would go to an alternative.
It wasn't alternative school,it was just online.
It was all the same classes butthey were able to go online.
It was out of the otherdistrict office was their main,
but that way they could stay inschool and then, when they were
(22:14):
ready, they could come rightback, transition right back in,
but they were at home.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, feel like they did that to take them out of the
population, so other peoplewouldn't think that it was
normal or okay, or they wouldcatch it.
Right, and I don't think thatthat was great for their mindset
or their education, because ifthey were trying to continue
their education, guess what Alot of the schools weren't
(22:39):
online then, okay, and so youwere still going to brick and
mortar campuses.
You didn't actually teach themthe life skill of now.
This thing has happened.
It's not a mistake.
This life is created and yourbalance now looks different.
And so how do we teach you tojuggle?
How do we help you find balance?
Because forever, this is alwaysa factor.
(23:00):
Now, instead, we put yousomewhere, let you deal with
that and go, come back andgraduate, but still not give you
any balance.
We isolated you instead ofgiving you a community, and the
isolation starts young, when youstarted having sex when you
were young.
Don't talk to them, they'reloose, they're doing all things.
The isolation starts there, andthen if a life is created while
(23:21):
you're out here being perceivedfast or loose or making bad
decisions, then it's oh, youmade your bed, now lay in it, so
we isolate you round two, andthen we go.
They didn't want any better,but they did, and nobody talked.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
We had a girl at a high school I worked at before
we moved from Kansas that wastransferred from the Catholic
private school very expensiveand she got kicked out of the
Catholic school because she waspregnant.
And she got kicked out of theCatholic school because she was
pregnant and she had to come tothe public school.
To me that felt like scarletletter.
She needs her faith more thananything and you just pushed her
out.
That bothered me.
(23:56):
Now.
I did remember Amanda took likea health class for CNA or
something at high school andthey had to carry babies around
for like a weekend.
But I don't even know thatteacher left.
I don't even know if they stilleven do it now because of that
teacher.
These are a whole, whole baby.
(24:18):
I had a.
I had a robot baby.
Yes, crying, screaming.
I had a robot baby.
Oh, yeah, that baby cried.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
My baby had colic.
The baby went to the bathroom.
You had a key to turn it off.
The teacher programmed it foryou and every day that program
for me changed.
It was like you had a nice calmbaby over the night and then
she, when you would come back,she'd check over your baby, make
sure that you did all thethings.
They would look at the log.
You had a certain amount oftime to soothe your baby and
(24:45):
figure out what those cries looklike.
It sounded, the cry soundeddifferent and you had to go
through the series of thingsuntil the baby stopped crying
because they had programmed whatthe cries mean.
You carried around a diaper bag, all the things a car seat.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
It had a.
Ours had a little car.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't an egg.
Yeah, we had a car seat, we hadthe baby baby, we had the
diaper bag, the whole nine.
It's the reason why I wasn't ateen mom, literally.
And then I had to carry a gymbag in my book bag and all the
things that we had to do thatfor an entire month.
Yeah, oh, see theirs was like aweekend.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
No, they went to the football game on Friday night.
They were taking that baby tothe football game unless they
had a babysitter for it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was off and on for a month.
We went through what it waslike to be three.
They gave us a husband.
We had a husband.
We had to go through budgets.
We went grocery shopping, weplanned life on it.
You decided this is what youwanted to do.
If you and your fake spouse wasbeefing who had the baby.
We went through who got thebaby this weekend?
(25:48):
But they made sure that bothparents had, if we, because
we're not technically married,both parents had alternate
weekends and we switched.
And then during the day, duringclass, we right next to us and,
as they wanted to see that wecould interact, that we could
figure out this decision.
If, in the right now moment, wedecided we didn't want to be
together, no more, but this babyexisted, they stopped doing
(26:09):
that.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Wow, we just had a bag of sugar.
I know that the babies camelater and the robots came later,
but we just had the bag ofsugar and they weighed your
sugar at the end to see how wellyou were taking care of that
bag of sugar.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Guys, we have been graced by a beautiful faith.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I love us Guys, we have been graced by a beautiful
faith.
We have a new guest.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Welcome to the party.
So this is my mother.
This is Avis.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Everyone here is so excited to meet you, Mom.
We've heard great things.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
This is good.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I'm thankful.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Yes, you walked in on us having a conversation around
(27:08):
sex and why it's such a taboosubject I'm thankful taboo and
how we think it would be abetter place if the conversation
was open and we discussed itwithout fear.
My mother did not discuss it,neither did my dad, but they
were very affectionate aroundthis.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
But some of the stuff that grandma taught you was
really, really weird.
Yeah, but that didn't haveanything to do with sex.
True, she taught you some weirdthings about tampons and
shaving.
She taught you some weirdthings about tampons and shaving
.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Shaving was a taboo.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
She gave you sandpaper.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
mom To shave my legs, yes.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Wait what, wait what.
How does mom do that?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
My mom's mom was not kind, let's put it that way.
Okay, mom, you tell Waitsandpaper.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, can we just pause at the sandpaper part,
because I'm okay.
So I have some follow-upquestions.
Hi, mom, I have follow-upquestions.
Is that what?
What was the point for youwhere you said I need to change
this?
No, I mean, what was the pointfor you what?
What was your, your, your, youryouth moment that said, when I
(28:02):
have a daughter, I want to makesure I talk to her about these
things.
What was that moment for you?
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I don't think I actually had a moment where I
thought I would have a daughter,but at the moment, about using
a sandpaper on my legs, it'slike nobody should have to do
this.
And that was my.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
That was my only rebellion yeah, I wasn't allowed
to shave because I was six foot.
Because I would, I would bewelcoming advances from older.
What am I shaving for?
Nobody's supposed to be thatclose to me.
They shouldn't be touching me.
They should be able to see thatI have body, hair, all those
things.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
And so, wow, sandpaper is wild yeah, I only
did one leg and and I you it wasstarting to bleed and I just
thought, well, this just isn't,I'm not going to do it.
So I went and got dad's razorand finished shaving my leg.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Can I just say I think grandma had cruel ideas of
how to mess with people.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
It probably had a lot to do with how she was raised.
And that's where breakinggenerational curses come in.
But that doesn't have anythingto do with what I know you
ladies are talking about todayI've got some more follow-up
questions.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Adis, okay, so jen's in the store with you, right?
So you're just out running someerrands and you was like, hey,
let's go make this stop.
Did jen ask questionsafterwards?
I think she's referring to theSilver.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Fox.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
The Silver Fox.
Did she have questionsafterwards Like what was that
experience?
Like I'm trying to know a youngJenny now.
Like was she baffled, was hermouth open?
Pause, y'all.
Not in that kind of way, butlike was she like, hey, what is?
Speaker 5 (29:45):
this.
Well see, jenny was an adultthen, wasn't she?
No, no.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Mom, I was like 14, 15 when I started going with you
and I think I just didn'trealize what was behind the
curtain.
I kept a straight face andwalked around and read the
humorous cards and funnyt-shirts.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
You weren't allowed to go back behind the curtain.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Did I ask questions?
Not that I recall.
Yeah, did I ask questions?
Not that I recall, uh, but Iwouldn't have ended up at that
store to begin with if it wasn'tfor one of my friends, debbie,
that her husband went to andbought her something.
Okay, wait a minute, debbie.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well, yes, but this is a public platform, so you
should, we shouldn't go into I'mnot saying I'm not saying last
names, I've just yeah, okay,pretty much the whole community
is marvin, so yeah but, but.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
But it's your name, is this?
But it's part of your story,jen, so using her first name
won't say she won't figure itout.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I'm just in shock over here.
Okay, I grew up in a very, verylds community.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
No, she couldn't even .
She didn't even go buygroceries on Sunday.
And if she did, she opened thegarage, pulled in closed the
garage before she would take thegroceries out of the trunk of
her car.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So the neighbors wouldn't see.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So the neighbors wouldn't see that she went
shopping on Sunday.
Was that not something you cando?
Correct, unless things havechanged.
A lot of things have changed inthe decades.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
But here's the thing I always thought about this,
about the whole not shopping onSunday.
If somebody from church saw you, they're there too, they're
there too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
And unless they're living across the street and not
at the grocery Good point.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Good point, yeah, hey , also, I know that I've talked
to you guys.
You've had a lot of questionsabout Mormonism, so this is a
great time to ask my momquestions about that too.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
What was it?
What was being in a Mormonlifestyle?
What was the topic around sexthen?
Was it also feared?
Because I grew up Catholic andit was pretty much, like you
know, a fear thing.
So in the Mormon religion is italso a fear thing, or are they
more open about it?
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I joined the Mormon church when I was in high school
and started dating somebodythat came from a Mormon family,
and so I grew up with a familythat seemed to have.
They weren't I don't.
I had a book on sex, so youknow, I found it up in the attic
, poking around in the attic,garage attic.
(32:09):
I would love to read that.
Now it's a vintage.
It would be a vintage book.
You know, my parents wereplayful and affectionate, but
there was definitely aseparation.
Parents were adults and kidswere kids and kids were you go
over there and we're going to beover here, you know.
(32:30):
So they had an adult life andwe pretty well just raised
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, raised yourselves.
Yeah, kind of.
Yeah, I did too.
Free range, kid.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So my ideas about sex ?
It was, the book was boring tome and so I a friend, she and I
were down by a stream andreading it.
But I got bored and so she readand I went and played and poked
around and, you know, did mykid thing.
And it wasn't until datingsomebody, my first boyfriend in
(33:06):
high school that he wanted to betouchy-feely and it scared me
and so he dropped me and then mynext boyfriend was the person I
married.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
See, that's another thing that we need to be
educated on, like I hope hedidn't get hurt because he
dropped you.
You know, like what adisgusting thing to drop
somebody for.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Well, he found somebody else younger.
She was in the ninth grade andthey got pregnant, so that was
my next question.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Did you know anybody in high school that got pregnant
and what happened to thosewomen?
Speaker 5 (33:36):
The ones that did.
Back then.
People got married when theygot pregnant and most of them I
think all of them that I went toschool with are still together.
Wow, even if they were underage, they had to get married.
They're still together.
Wow, even if they were underage, they had to get married Like
16?
Yeah, the only circumstanceI've ever known of where
somebody didn't get married wasa neighbor whose daughter got
(33:56):
pregnant and the parents wereMormon and they insisted that
she adopt the baby out.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Wow, that's hard.
Insist too, picking up my nextquestion.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
That's great that they're still together, though,
yeah, but was abortion talkedabout, since I didn't have a
pregnancy problem to discuss,you know, I don't know how that
would have been handled by otherpeople.
My husband and his first wifegot married because they were
(34:27):
pregnant and did one of theparents suggest you had the
option and you chose to have thechild?
Yeah State was this inWashington?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Stepdad was married to his first wife 12 years and
then she left, left the daughterwith him.
He eventually remarried a womanwith a daughter.
He helped raise that daughterand when she left because he's
got the worst luck ever heactually kept her daughter and
finished a good man.
I think he's been treatedpretty badly by some women in
(35:13):
the past, yet he has such aheart for children and love for
people that I find it amazing.
And the fact that he raised mystepsister, his own stepdaughter
I think that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
He sounds like a great man.
That's amazing.
He is a great man.
Let's see.
I think that's pretty amazing.
He sounds like a great man.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
He is a great man.
Let's see, I think we shouldask questions about the temple.
Oh, our guest.
I feel like a lot of thisMormon stuff has to do with sex
and stuff too, and there wassome weird stuff you told me
about the temple.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's actually.
It's no secret that the templeseraph fashioned after the
Masons.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, aware of the Masons, had no idea it had to do
with Masons either.
I'm going to ask my brotherthis it doesn't.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
But Joseph Smith was a Mason, and so when?
So it's the sign of the cross,or like you'll kill yourself if
you ever give away your templename, or whatever you do all of
these vows in the temple and youare given, you're given a name
(36:20):
that women are given theirheavenly names, and you're not
allowed to speak of it exactly.
If you say your name out loud,you will go to hell.
Wait, okay, I got questions.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
What's the point?
I got questions, andy, gotquestions, andy.
Andy has so many questions.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
I actually had to emotionally divorce myself from
the church.
One of the first things I didwhen I went out on a mountain
bike ride is I went out and wentup on a mountaintop, put my
bike down and shook my fists upin the air and I said my temple
name is Margaret and I am notgoing to hell.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That is the most powerful moment and I want to
make a movie about that.
Wow, that is so powerful insuch as, like stick it to the
man.
Like Andy, you can ask yourquestion.
I'm over here like yes, yes,Did you wear the?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
what is it called the garments?
Yes the garments.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
Yes, and they have symbols on them that are
associated with the mason.
Are they heavy?
They're lightweight, they'relike wearing a slip.
Except that they're like backin the early 70s.
Um, should I talk about thedesign of them?
I mean, they were onesies.
They were onesies and they hadno buttons or is it never heard
(37:37):
of this?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
you wore this under your outfit.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Go potty you gotta completely get undressed.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Uh, there's a slip down at the crotch right and
right like the body, the bodyshapers.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Now Right, you're not body shapers.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
You would just, you know, lift your dress up or
whatever, and you know, pullthat aside.
And do you wear this with everyoutfit?
I've never heard this before.
Yes, you always wear it.
As a matter of fact, you wearyour undergarments, like panties
or a bra, over the top of them.
Why over the top?
Because the garment is supposedto touch your body.
Then why are you?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
wearing the undergarments.
If you're wearing the garments,why are you wearing underwear
If the garments are covering upall the spots?
Speaker 5 (38:18):
why are you wearing underwear?
Sometimes, there's times of themonth where you want a little
more coverage.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Valid, valid.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So during times of the month, are you supposed to
wear that and then underwear,because then you would just get
that.
I guess you could put a pad init.
I have so many questions.
Can you?
Yeah, can you?
I didn't use pads, were you?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
allowed to use tampons yes, okay, some families
yeah, allowed, allowed.
Some families I mean nowthere's a family member that I'm
aware of that wasn't allowed to.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah.
Inside family when I grew up.
I grew up in Saudi Arabia andthey don't have tampons there.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
The women are allowed , so we had to bring them in.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I didn't know what a tampon was until I got well into
high school where one of myteammates was like this is how
you use it.
We did not have theconversation, you weren't
supposed to do it, and I wasactually told that I would lose
my that I would break my hymenusing tampons.
And so there you go.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Yeah, families are different.
We didn't have any pads in ourhouse and we didn't have any
tampons.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
We didn't even know how to use them.
I did.
My mom didn't even know what tobuy.
I learned in high school gym.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Okay, at least you had hopefully some friends you
learned from.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
They did.
They told me they're like don'tinsert it this way, Do it this
way.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's less thankful for good friends that watch your
things and because of that isthe reason why I started talking
and I wish I would have had theconversation.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeso seriously.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeso seriously.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeand nobody talked to me and I
literally thought I was dyingand getting your cycle early.
Understand that it happens inthe family.
Nobody said so and so got theircycle that early too, and then
(40:01):
it happened to my daughter.
Right now we gotta have theconversation because if my cycle
came early, there's alikelihood yours will come early
and and you know what you canget pregnant at Nine when you
have a period at nine.
But and girls are getting theircycles earlier, but we're not
having the conversation andwe're shaming them in their
curiosity.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
And that's very sad, and that's what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I was shamed in my curiosity.
When I had questions it waslike I'm afraid to ask these or
I'm ashamed to ask these becauseyou may think that I'm loose or
proud.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
Told mom well, we had this classroom discussion and
mom said good, and at 14,.
(40:54):
Then I said well, I, apparentlythis is the time and she goes.
Well, tampons are in thebathroom, go figure it out.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Goodness, no wonder I was afraid of Grandma Annie.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So you converted.
I got some more Mormonquestions, so you converted into
Mormonism when you were dating?
Yeah, did you have a lot ofdomestic roles?
Were you expected to be heavilydomesticated when you converted
, like I don't know how to saythat in a way that doesn't?
Speaker 5 (41:32):
My mother worked.
She worked when we childrenwere young, we had a babysitter,
but otherwise the examples thatI had in my lifetime growing up
I mean by the time I was injunior high she was not working
anymore, just full-time mom.
And so full-time mom was therole model I had, and especially
with the extended Mormon family.
Domestic cooking, cleaning,having babies is what the
Mormons were about then.
(41:52):
And let's say, my first husbandand I went back east to his
last military station to set uphousekeeping for the first time.
He went to the PX and did someshopping for us and came home
with a broom and a dustpan andit's kind of like boom, it's
(42:13):
like duh All of a sudden.
It was kind of like I got hitwith a baseball and it was like
wow, I got to do this the restof my life.
This is it Cleaning laundry.
That was just kind of a turningpoint for me.
I was a, a free range kid, justkind of like I played in the
hills and I was not a girly girlat all.
(42:34):
Was it packaged?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
for you in the way that.
So for me it was always bundledin a way of you have to be the
Proverbs woman, but they neverfinished reading the rest of
what that meant and how you weresupposed to serve the man of
the house and all those things.
But it also continues to sayand they're supposed to do the
same for you, but the part ofthe verse being the proverb wife
(42:57):
, they always hung up on theyou're supposed to cater to your
spouse but left out the partwhere it's supposed to be mutual
respect.
That's how it was packaged forme.
So I was expected the examplesthat I got growing up and me
getting married and doing allthe things I was expected to do.
What my grandma did and thatwas bring them their plate and
(43:18):
ask them if they're hungry andput the stuff on there and then
wait for them to say that theyneeded something else and to be
readily available when they saidthey needed something.
While doing laundry and rearingkids and all of those things, I
didn't realize how deeply seatedor rooted that was for me until
I had a daughter and shestarted dating.
I'm like, wait a minute, he canfix his own plate.
(43:41):
It's literally it's okay to askhey, I'm up, you want me to fix
your plate?
And they're like sure, becauseI was already doing it.
But I started to look aroundhow I was raised and the males
in my life were sitting waitingfor their plate, Not like oh,
you are already up, Can you grabthis for me?
(44:01):
It was the expectation that Icame here and I sat at 6 pm and
there's not a plate in front ofme.
You hadn't brought it yet.
That's how I was raised.
That was my example of how tobe a wife, how to be a good wife
and how to be a good mother,and I'm glad that that is not
the thing that I continue toroll out, because that's weird.
Speaker 5 (44:26):
You know, on my first marriage, the men of the
families, they got up.
It was usually like potluckstyle when we had big family
dinners and they served theirown, they got their own plates,
but after that it was like menwent to watch football on TV and
the women all went to thekitchen to clean and the kids
went outside.
Yeah same.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So I have a question yes, and it goes back to the
garments side yeah, same.
So I have a question yes, andit goes back to the garments.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
What did the symbols stand for?
I don't remember.
I'd actually have to go look itup on the Masons, but it has to
do with truth, maybefaithfulness.
And then the ones on the knees,I can't remember, one on each
chest and one on the bellybutton.
That was for, I think, health,and then the one on the knees
were I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I don't remember, did the men wear them as well?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Okay, good, good, and basically, to my understanding,
if your garments were showing,then you were not dressing
appropriately.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
And then, over the decades, the garments evolved
because women started havingmore active lifestyles.
So all of a sudden the garmentsstarted getting shorter so that
women could wear capri pants.
The cap sleeves went to, Ithink, no cap, and then they
went to two-piece with an actualcrotch in them.
(45:46):
So now you had, you know, topand bottom.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Made for easy access right.
Well, that was the old one.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
Well, you were supposed to.
I mean, it got.
If you were to back in theearly decades, you were only
supposed to take them off whenyou took baths, so did you have
to wear them under swimmingsuits?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
No, Probably weren't wearing swimming suits.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Wait, what did the swimming suits look like?
Because I've seen some Mormongroups that have on swimsuits
that look like culottes andthey're like full suits but
they're not like form fittingand their necks are covered but
they're still in the water.
It's like giant palazzoswimsuits.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
I think at one point in time I bought a swimsuit a
one piece and that seemed to bea great turn on because that was
the closest thing to a negligeeI would have ever put on.
Wow.
You got some totic.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
You had lots of silky silky pajamas though you might
not have had like negligees, butyou had lots of like silky,
satiny pajamas.
I remember folding them whenfolding laundry.
I mean, granted they were likeshirts and pants, but still they
were like all silky.
Speaker 5 (46:54):
Yeah, those were nice .
Speaker 3 (46:55):
That was the closest to sexy our household was.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
Yeah, until I evolved sexually.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
So do you remember back then chronic illness
conversations happening withinthe church and how was that
dealt with?
Or was it friend, none, I mean?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I wonder, why though?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
because I remember my aunt being diagnosed with ms,
but I didn't know what it was atthe time or understand how
serious it was, and I don'tremember there ever being real
conversations about it otherthan just my aunt had MF.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
Yeah, when we came back from the last duty station
for the military and settled inthe hometown and started going
to a church there Mormon and theladies you know, the men go out
home teaching the ladies who goout visiting teaching to the
ladies of the church I wasassigned a woman that had met MS
.
But the gals just said go visither, and that's all.
(47:50):
They said I've never done thisbefore.
And then they said she has MS.
I didn't know what MS was, Ididn't know that she was
bedridden.
It was kind of like I justdon't think there was much
enough education on it then.
And if there was education onit, it certainly wasn't the
(48:11):
women who were educated.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Well, and I think that also to go with that, you
know babies dying that wasn't aconversation that we had either.
I remember hearing about someof these people losing children
or whatever, hearing that theirbabies had passed in their sleep
and hearing this happening whatI felt was a lot as I was
growing up, but never aconversation of why or anything
(48:35):
like that.
Speaker 5 (48:35):
So it's almost like we just didn't talk about health
in general, or am I wrong?
No, there wasn't conversations,just was not.
When your dad got cancer, jenny, I really didn't know what it
was.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, Another conversation and I'll bring my
mom and we can all discuss.
I love this.
Okay, we're going to plan.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I love this okay, we're gonna plan this out.
We are gonna plan this out.
All right, ladies, until nexttime, don't forget your spoon.
Hello and welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters
Podcast.
It is your co-host, allie.
I have been MIA for the pastcouple episodes and, baby, I am
back, ready to chat and ready tospice things up a little bit,
but I have missed you guys somuch to our listeners and to our
other hosts.
I have missed y'all.
(00:21):
I have been on a little retreat, if you will say.
I have been in a cabin in thewoods, in the mountains, trying
to take a break from socialmedia and screens and, baby, it
has helped heal me a little bitnot fully because, baby, that
doesn't exist in our Spoonielife.
It has been nice, but I missyou and we are here with another
random Spoonie sister chat andwe are so excited, I am very
(00:46):
excited about today's topic.
Well, today's topic is startingoff strong, with a little bit of
spice, but then we'll get intothe most random things.
I'm sure we were just sittinghere chatting about sex.
Yes, something that isdifferent for all of us,
especially us Spoonies, the waywe experience it, the way that
we forget about it because ofpain.
Somebody was just saying abouthow their diagnosis got them
(01:08):
actually more spicy.
For me it was the opposite.
When I got really ill.
I completely ignored all thingsabout sex.
And now let me tell yousomething.
I love sex.
I think it's amazing.
I hate that it is a forbiddentopic.
I hate that it's taboo.
I think it makes us women verypowerful and can be seen in such
(01:29):
a beautiful light.
But the way that we were allbrought up like everybody I'm
sure here, all of us co-hosts itwas probably taboo.
I've never had a friend thatsay, growing up it wasn't a
taboo subject, and for me it wastoo.
I grew up in a very religiousCatholic family and so sex was
not talked about at all.
I mean, I had the chat, buteven then I was like please, mom
, no, no.
(01:49):
But so I was a very sexualbeing.
I was very proud of it, to thepoint where I would post
pictures on Instagram and mytoys would be in the back.
That was what I was going tosay.
And my friend commented and waslike Allie, your toy is on your
bed in the back.
And I'm like listen, that'sfine.
So sexual that when my momfound my box of toys, didn't
even question me and just put itin my bedside drawer.
I was like where's that box?
(02:10):
As we're unpacking, she goes,don't worry, put it in your
bedside drawer.
Also coming from the girl who,at the age of 21, went to Vegas
with her said mom and three bestfriends and won a fake orgasm
competition on stage with theThunder Down Under strippers.
I beat three bridesmaids andwon that competition and my mom
was there and you know what shedid.
(02:31):
She turned to my friends andsaid she's going to win this.
And I won it.
I am proud Look at Andy's face.
I am proud of the sexual personthat I am.
But when I got sick now, I gotdiagnosed at the age of 15 with
juvenile idiopathic arthritis,but I went into remission for
six years after that because Ihad surgery.
When I got sick again at theage of 21, I was unable to walk.
(02:52):
I was starting methotrexate,which is not a fun drug to start
.
I was sick, I was nauseous.
I would say 10 years after thatI was not in the mood ever.
I was tired, I was nauseous.
I was not in the mood ever.
I was tired, I was nauseous.
I was overworked as well, sothat it plays into it, but I was
not in the mood for sex.
Poor Travis, I was just not.
I was just too tired, and itwasn't until I quit my jobs and
(03:14):
got enough sleep and reallystarted to focus on my health
and read smutty books that I getit back.
So yeah, I was the opposite,and I know if you guys don't
want to talk about it, you don'thave to, but I was wondering
how you guys felt dealing withyour chronic illness and keeping
things spicy in the bedroom.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Like you, it was very taboo.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:35):
Which is interesting because of course I was raised
Mormon but we stopped going tochurch when I was 12.
So it was interesting to watchthat shift.
When I was in high school, mymom would go to the sex shop.
When I got married, she boughtme a toy.
Your mom did.
It was a glow-in-the-dark toy.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
I don't have one.
I need one now.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
And it was because she said that every woman needs
one.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
I love that.
I love that, especially in hergeneration.
Like that's not.
Yeah, maybe it was because theywere Mormon.
I love sex stores.
A part of why I'm so sexual andspiritual about it is could be
because I grew up in SaudiArabia, where clearly there are
no sex stores and no talk of sexand you can't even show skin.
So it's probably a little bitas to why I'm so open, because I
(04:23):
grew up in such a place thatwomen couldn't even work or
drive.
I think that has to do with itas well.
I did bring a sex toy into thecountry and I did get caught
that way.
Luckily I was in the countrynext door, so I was in Bahrain,
which is where we would fly into.
I was going to be in Italy.
I was going to be in Italy forsix months studying abroad, and
I was single.
So I had to bring a littlesomething with me and I brought
(04:45):
a little toy.
Luckily it was not in the shapeof a you know what.
That would make it obvious.
It was in like kind of like acrescent moon shape.
And, yeah, the guy who found itin my luggage because they
check your luggage before youleave the airport, not like here
.
He took it out and he was likewhat is this?
I was like I had to think onthe spot.
I was like I had to think onthe spot.
(05:09):
I was like, okay, my ass tookit from his hand, turned it on,
put it on my shoulder and saidit's a shoulder massager.
I'm standing in an airport.
This man is dressed in auniform, an army uniform, in
Bahrain, in a Middle Easterncountry.
I'm standing there with a sextoy on my shoulder vibrating.
I'm with a straight face,saying it is a shoulder massager
, sir.
He looks at me, he goes, put itaway.
He closes up my bag.
I leave, he lets me go.
(05:30):
My mom is waiting for me outside, smiles.
She's like you're here, let'sgo get Krispy Kremes, because
it's the only Krispy Kreme placein the country.
It's at the airport and she'sexcited and jazzed.
It's our tradition.
We always get Krispy Kremes.
I grab her hand, I drag her outof the airport.
I'm like mom, now is not thetime to get Krispy Kremes, we
need to get in the car and leave.
She's like what?
(05:50):
Why is your face so red?
I'm like I just pulled out mysex toy and turned it on for the
guard.
We need to leave back.
Did I bring it to Italy?
I don't even know.
I think I was so mortified Idon't think I brought it with me
.
It stayed in Saudi.
The fact that I got through itwas that's how I didn't dare
(06:13):
bring it back to the Bahrainiairport.
I was mortified, I didn't.
It stayed in Saudi, it threw itaway.
This was something elsehappened.
My mom had guests over and itwas in the bedside drawer and I
had to tell her Mom, you'regoing to have to move that
because they were staying in myroom.
I'm like, oh shit, this, it'salways there.
And so, yeah, she had to moveit.
In Saudi, the guys go throughyour trash, not like the dirty
(06:34):
trash, but other trash.
I'm sitting in the kitchenwatching them and I'm like this
toy is.
It's cursed.
The toy's cursed.
They threw it back in the trash.
They didn't know what it was.
But my mom is like, allie, you,no, you cannot bring those into
the.
I never did again, but yeah, soit could be.
(06:54):
Living in Saudi Arabia is thereason I am so sexual.
It is taboo to talk about, butthat's why I love talking about
it so much, because I followmany people online who talk
about it.
I even follow a woman who'slike in fitness who.
Have you guys seen her?
Where she teaches youcomfortable positions to have
sex in and like ways to do itthat won't hurt your knees?
I'm obsessed with her.
I will share it with you guys.
(07:14):
She's amazing.
I think she's in Atlanta, whichmakes me sad that when I lived
there I never went to one of hercourses.
But yeah, it's so important Ihave not seen her, but why
haven't you sent her to us?
I post her all the time I am ona social media break but I will
go find her and post her.
But I love her sessions.
She does all the ways to do itwithout hurting your knees and
stuff, andy, yes, so here's thething.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Andy has entered the chat.
Oh, here's the thing.
I am over here baffled, I'm noteven gonna lie to you, I'm over
here baffled, and if peoplecould see me in real life, I
think I kicked my chin like sixtimes because my mouth has been
wide open.
Pause, nothing naughty.
(07:58):
My mouth has been on the floor.
To which part All of it.
All of it, the me at 21 winningthe prize of the thunder down
under the mama there my momsaying I'm gonna win jenny at
the, at the at the toy storewith mom with her mom, yeah
there is no way.
There is no way.
(08:19):
My mama, my grandm, none of myaunts, I don't recall even
having the conversation aboutwhat parts went where we were
touching fronts.
Yeah, we didn't even have thetouch fronts, or don't let the
tips touch, kind of conversationit was.
I guess you're going to findout.
We don't talk about thosethings.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I guess you're going to find out.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So, like kudos, you knowudos to the, the empowerment
and the freedom that comes withtalking about it.
I didn't realize howuncomfortable moment of
transparency guys, I didn'trealize how uncomfortable I
actually was going to be sittingin this conversation, but also
how empowering it is to see thatthe outside perception of this
being so taboo, it's really noteverybody's company for real.
(09:05):
At some point in timesomebody's gonna touch fronts
like we're gonna go let, we'regonna be belly button the belly
button at some point in time,that's you know, we're gonna be
belly button the belly button.
And I think where we were, mygeneration might have had a
hiccup is that we didn't havethe conversation in any capacity
(09:26):
.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
And so for me, I made sure that I started having the
conversation with my daughter assoon as her body started
changing, because we need toidentify these parts.
They're not the pocketbook,it's not your cookie jar.
If they touch you, they touchyou.
I want to know why, I want toknow where, and you need to know
it's not okay if you don't feelsafe with it.
But it was teaching her all thethings that I wish I would have
(09:49):
had the conversation when I wasyounger.
I had a lot of questions when Ifinally decided that I was ready
to start touching fronts andthat was later than the average
person in most of the time.
But when I decided that it wastime for me to start being
active, I had a whole lot ofquestions and it was rooted in
fear, because that is literallyhow I was raised that touch and
(10:12):
fronts ended up being with myperson that you go on to be with
for double digit decades andwhatnot you know.
But there was so much fearassociated with if I make this
decision to give my body or I'mnot supposed to talk about it,
what if it gets out of people'swill give you the scarlet letter
.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
But the scarlet letter for the thing that is
natural.
It's natural If we're here toprocreate.
If we go all the way back tolike for me biblically it was,
you're not supposed to do this,okay, you're not supposed to do
it, got it.
But if we go back to the rootof it and our bodies were meant
to procreate, then theconversation of this is your
(10:53):
body and how it works.
And if this is happening andyou don't feel safe, then they
actually need to know what thatlooks like, that it is a natural
thing, and there's also peopleout there that do unnatural
things using the naturalexperience that can victimize
you.
But I had no idea howuncomfortable this conversation
was going to make it.
Like I am not, but not a bad,uncomfortable, just like a wow.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
You're aware you're like wow, so yeah that's kind of
where I'm at Like I, we did notdiscuss it.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I had brothers, so I was the only girl.
I was almost raised as an onlychild because of our age
differences.
I had sister-in-laws.
My first sister-in-law came inthe marriage when I was four,
but sex even then with them wasa taboo conversation.
Sister-in-law, because I gaineda little weight in high school,
(11:46):
thought I was having sex.
So since that, like, I reallystruggled with not wanting
because, oh, you mean I have,I'm gonna gain weight, like now.
Of course that's not how thathappens, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was told that my hips were gonna spread.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
Yes, so I'm saying yeah, so it just, and I'm like,
so I put on some weight, I amsexually active.
So then I just did not want totalk about it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, the fear, the fear of like Also.
That's not like you don't wantthat to be, even if you were
being sexually active.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
It doesn't need to be shout to the rooftops because
I've never heard of this beforeand nobody and no, and like my
family, I did not discuss who myfirst was, when my first was
like nothing.
It was not discussed.
I got my first toy for awedding gift, a bridal.
It was my bachelorette party.
Do you know where it went?
In the trash.
I will be honest, 100 honest.
(12:35):
It went in the trash because Idid not know what to do with it
and none of my girlfriends.
We didn't talk.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
No, over here like about to cry no, no, no, no,
she's laughing, she's laughing.
Can I use this interlude totell you something?
Who is this?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
My mother.
I am in love.
Can I say what your mom justsaid?
Sure, Her mom said what happensin the bedroom stays in the
bedroom and Jenny was liketalking about toys and she goes.
They should be organized bytexture and hashtag batteries.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Yes, I am dying that she hashtagged the batteries.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Yes, the part you might not see is I said we're
talking about SEX and I don'tknow why I spelled it out.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Because that's how we're raised.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
I said I should bite you in.
I love this, I love this, butthe other thing that I sent to
you.
I looked up sex in the Bible.
This is 1 Corinthians 7.
Now, concerning the mattersabout which you wrote, it is
good for man not to have sexualrelations with a woman.
(13:38):
Okay, interesting.
But because of the temptationto sexual immorality, each man
should have his own wife andeach woman her own husband.
The husband should give to hiswife her conjugal rights and
likewise the wife to her husband.
I'm pretty sure my husband'staken that verse and sent it to
me many times.
Just that verse, that one verse.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Just saying Conjugal rights Do not deprive one
another, except perhaps byagreement for a limited time.
Flee from sexual immortality.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Every other sin a person commits is outside the
body, but the sexual and so yesso we're raised not to talk
about it, but it is still in thebible and it does tell you to
do it.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
But it also says the woman deserves it as well.
It's not just for the man andso we do it.
We just don't talk about itExactly, but I think there's
some groups where women have todo it because the man wants it.
It's not about her.
Yeah, it's not about herenjoyment, I don't you know.
(14:40):
But I also think in somerelationship I mean, I've had
friends that their husbands didthings they didn't like, but
they felt forced, they had to.
You know what I?
Speaker 3 (14:49):
mean kalisi.
Yeah, in game of thrones whenshe first got married.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
She didn't know, and she, uh, basically, was bent
over, and here you take it, yeahand lenea your friends that you
know just did it right.
If they were raised withmothers who or fathers, I don't
know I would be more comfortablewith a mother talking about
what is and isn't correct.
That's also another reason Iwant to nip this in the bud with
(15:15):
it being taboo, Because if youhad these open conversations
with your mother, you would knowthat that is not okay and that
is not what you need to do,Exactly Like how Andy sang
talking about it with herdaughter.
That's amazing, Like we none ofus really well, maybe Jenny,
but as much as I love my mom andI love that she's like powerful
about, you know, being sexualnowadays like we didn't have
that conversation as a kid, youknow.
(15:36):
So, yeah, that makes me sad.
I wish that they had thoseconversations.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
And my.
There was no having thisconversation with my mom.
My mom was in her late 40s whenI was born and what I learned
was from that sex ed class infourth, fifth grade where you
learn about your period.
But my daughter knows I didteach my daughter.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
What baffled me is that the women in our lives knew
right and obviously there wasproof because they had kids
right but we never had theconversation about whether or
not they felt safe in doing it,whether or not they were ready
to do it, what that looked like.
We didn't talk about whether ornot it was going to hurt and
what to expect if it did hurtand how to care for yourself
(16:20):
afterwards and all of the things.
We didn't have thoseconversations.
And those conversations areimportant because a lot does
happen to your body.
When you give yourself for thefirst time, there's a lot of
change that happens.
But if no one ever has theconversation, you will go into
something that's very naturaland the after effect of the
something natural youimmediately panic and think that
(16:41):
there is a medical emergency oryou start to question you over
something that's very natural.
I think that the conversationshould be had more, even if it's
in kid doses, in small, microdoses.
The conversation needs to behad with the young lady more and
by women, so that they are notbelieving anything they hear
(17:02):
from the person that wants toput something in their hole, so
they know that their bodies aremade for some pretty phenomenal
things and will respond in somereally alarming ways.
If you're not particular aboutthe sausage you let in your
factory, it literally can endhorribly and what that looks
like for you as the female, howthat presents and why you should
(17:23):
be inspecting the things thatyou decide that you want to
ingest, in whatever capacity youwant to ingest it, but
understanding what that lookslike from all aspects outside of
just the fear angle, the fearand the angle you know.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
think about how awful things have happened because of
them, instilling fear into usabout sex, when it could have
been the other way around.
Think of, like, all the thingsthat have happened.
Think about the women who havenever had an orgasm by their
husband because they don't evenknow what that is, or that they
don't know that sex can feelgood.
Think about like.
All teenagers are rebellious.
I'm rebellious.
That's why I had sex.
I'm rebellious.
(17:59):
I didn't know anything about it.
They want to do rebelliousthings and if they're not
educated on it, they're going tofigure it out for themselves.
Teenagers are going to be doingit, no matter what and, if you
consent, like in, just talkabout how it shouldn't be feared
and no matter what age you aredoing it.
(18:31):
Obviously kids shouldn't bedoing it.
We could just talk to them andjust be open about it and just
think of how things would havebeen different.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
It wasn't until I was in my early 20s when I got
married that we talked about it.
I wish that we would have talkedabout it when I was younger
because, like we're saying, weneed to have these conversations
.
I annoy and disgust my daughterall the time, but that's
because I want her to have theinformation.
I want her to feel comfortableand I want her to know that she
can come to me with questionswithout me saying this is what I
(19:02):
do.
She doesn't need to know aboutwhat we do in the bedroom, but
what I want her to know is thatshe can ask me all the questions
if there's something that comesup.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Give them the resources right there are so
many resources and books and tolet them know it's okay to you
know, explore their sexuality aslong as they're being safe, and
consent in all of the things.
I don't know what sex educationin school is like in the US.
I only did it in Saudi and itwas such BS.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
They don't have it anymore.
They don't have it.
My kids did not have it.
Now I will say my son.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
They don't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:34):
No, my son has.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
They don't have sex in or home in.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
Yeah, what?
No?
We used to no.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Nope, they don't have it anymore.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Jj and his middle school.
They talked about it.
Where Amanda went, they didn'tbecause it was a K-8 traditional
school.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
And now they separate them and they talk to the girls
specifically about periods andpregnancy, and then they talk to
the boys.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
But they don't even do that anymore.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
They don't do it anymore At all.
You get the period talk fifthgrade.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Period talk, starting in like fourth or fifth grade,
and they did it every year afterthat.
Sixth grade, yeah, but then inhigh school in our health class
they did talk about sex but itwas mostly about STDs and mostly
there was a lot of laughing andmaking fun and jokes.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, that's interesting that it's not
happening.
Speaker 4 (20:24):
Health classes my husband used to the company he
worked for in Kansas.
They used to have a healthsection.
It's like that.
They talked about differenthealth issues, but it was how to
take your blood pressure.
What's the blood pressure mean?
It was those type of typicalclinical health things.
If you wanted to go intohealthcare as a job, that was it
(20:46):
.
I don't think there's anyschool in Arizona that has a
class like that.
If there is, it's not where mykids go to school or went to
school at, but it's very sad.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Do any of you know if they still do this?
Where I grew up, if a girl gotpregnant, she actually got
removed from being in a regularschool with us and at first I
thought it was because like anembarrassment thing, but what I
later found out is it's a wholeseparate building that has child
care for after they give birthand everything they don't do
that anymore bummer, becausethey teach a lot of stuff okay
(21:18):
now you go to an alternativeschool for real, for real, not
attached to the school.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
I've never heard this .
And and now they don't even dothat.
You just pregnant in school andthen that's the way it is here.
You can go virtual after youhave the baby.
You can go virtual so you canfinish.
But they're not providingdaycare.
They're not sending you toalternative schools anymore.
They're like oh, you're havinga baby, cool, your classmates,
not y'all in the same class.
So you're having a baby and youin chemistry, so come to class,
(21:46):
bring a.
You got a morning sickness bag,bring that with you.
But come to chemistry.
Speaker 4 (21:52):
OK Dang, yeah, they here.
They've had girls at the highschool when I worked at the high
school that were pregnant andthey would go to an alternative.
It wasn't alternative school,it was just online.
It was all the same classes butthey were able to go online.
It was out of the otherdistrict office was their main,
but that way they could stay inschool and then, when they were
(22:14):
ready, they could come rightback, transition right back in,
but they were at home.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, feel like they did that to take them out of the
population, so other peoplewouldn't think that it was
normal or okay, or they wouldcatch it.
Right, and I don't think thatthat was great for their mindset
or their education, because ifthey were trying to continue
their education, guess what Alot of the schools weren't
(22:39):
online then, okay, and so youwere still going to brick and
mortar campuses.
You didn't actually teach themthe life skill of now.
This thing has happened.
It's not a mistake.
This life is created and yourbalance now looks different.
And so how do we teach you tojuggle?
How do we help you find balance?
Because forever, this is alwaysa factor.
(23:00):
Now, instead, we put yousomewhere, let you deal with
that and go, come back andgraduate, but still not give you
any balance.
We isolated you instead ofgiving you a community, and the
isolation starts young, when youstarted having sex when you
were young.
Don't talk to them, they'reloose, they're doing all things.
The isolation starts there, andthen if a life is created while
(23:21):
you're out here being perceivedfast or loose or making bad
decisions, then it's oh, youmade your bed, now lay in it, so
we isolate you round two, andthen we go.
They didn't want any better,but they did, and nobody talked.
Speaker 4 (23:35):
We had a girl at a high school I worked at before
we moved from Kansas that wastransferred from the Catholic
private school very expensiveand she got kicked out of the
Catholic school because she waspregnant.
And she got kicked out of theCatholic school because she was
pregnant and she had to come tothe public school.
To me that felt like scarletletter.
She needs her faith more thananything and you just pushed her
out.
That bothered me.
(23:56):
Now.
I did remember Amanda took likea health class for CNA or
something at high school andthey had to carry babies around
for like a weekend.
But I don't even know thatteacher left.
I don't even know if they stilleven do it now because of that
teacher.
These are a whole, whole baby.
(24:18):
I had a.
I had a robot baby.
Yes, crying, screaming.
I had a robot baby.
Oh, yeah, that baby cried.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
My baby had colic.
The baby went to the bathroom.
You had a key to turn it off.
The teacher programmed it foryou and every day that program
for me changed.
It was like you had a nice calmbaby over the night and then
she, when you would come back,she'd check over your baby, make
sure that you did all thethings.
They would look at the log.
You had a certain amount oftime to soothe your baby and
(24:45):
figure out what those cries looklike.
It sounded, the cry soundeddifferent and you had to go
through the series of thingsuntil the baby stopped crying
because they had programmed whatthe cries mean.
You carried around a diaper bag, all the things a car seat.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
It had a.
Ours had a little car.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Yeah, it wasn't like it wasn't an egg.
Yeah, we had a car seat, we hadthe baby baby, we had the
diaper bag, the whole nine.
It's the reason why I wasn't ateen mom, literally.
And then I had to carry a gymbag in my book bag and all the
things that we had to do thatfor an entire month.
Yeah, oh, see theirs was like aweekend.
Speaker 4 (25:20):
No, they went to the football game on Friday night.
They were taking that baby tothe football game unless they
had a babysitter for it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It was off and on for a month.
We went through what it waslike to be three.
They gave us a husband.
We had a husband.
We had to go through budgets.
We went grocery shopping, weplanned life on it.
You decided this is what youwanted to do.
If you and your fake spouse wasbeefing who had the baby.
We went through who got thebaby this weekend?
(25:48):
But they made sure that bothparents had, if we, because
we're not technically married,both parents had alternate
weekends and we switched.
And then during the day, duringclass, we right next to us and,
as they wanted to see that wecould interact, that we could
figure out this decision.
If, in the right now moment, wedecided we didn't want to be
together, no more, but this babyexisted, they stopped doing
(26:09):
that.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Wow, we just had a bag of sugar.
I know that the babies camelater and the robots came later,
but we just had the bag ofsugar and they weighed your
sugar at the end to see how wellyou were taking care of that
bag of sugar.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Guys, we have been graced by a beautiful faith.
Speaker 4 (26:25):
I love us Guys, we have been graced by a beautiful
faith.
We have a new guest.
I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
Welcome to the party.
So this is my mother.
This is Avis.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Everyone here is so excited to meet you, Mom.
We've heard great things.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
This is good.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
I'm thankful.
Speaker 5 (26:46):
Yes, you walked in on us having a conversation around
(27:08):
sex and why it's such a taboosubject I'm thankful taboo and
how we think it would be abetter place if the conversation
was open and we discussed itwithout fear.
My mother did not discuss it,neither did my dad, but they
were very affectionate aroundthis.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
But some of the stuff that grandma taught you was
really, really weird.
Yeah, but that didn't haveanything to do with sex.
True, she taught you some weirdthings about tampons and
shaving.
She taught you some weirdthings about tampons and shaving
.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
Shaving was a taboo.
Speaker 3 (27:27):
She gave you sandpaper.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
mom To shave my legs, yes.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Wait what, wait what.
How does mom do that?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
My mom's mom was not kind, let's put it that way.
Okay, mom, you tell Waitsandpaper.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
Okay, can we just pause at the sandpaper part,
because I'm okay.
So I have some follow-upquestions.
Hi, mom, I have follow-upquestions.
Is that what?
What was the point for youwhere you said I need to change
this?
No, I mean, what was the pointfor you what?
What was your, your, your, youryouth moment that said, when I
(28:02):
have a daughter, I want to makesure I talk to her about these
things.
What was that moment for you?
Speaker 5 (28:08):
I don't think I actually had a moment where I
thought I would have a daughter,but at the moment, about using
a sandpaper on my legs, it'slike nobody should have to do
this.
And that was my.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
That was my only rebellion yeah, I wasn't allowed
to shave because I was six foot.
Because I would, I would bewelcoming advances from older.
What am I shaving for?
Nobody's supposed to be thatclose to me.
They shouldn't be touching me.
They should be able to see thatI have body, hair, all those
things.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
And so, wow, sandpaper is wild yeah, I only
did one leg and and I you it wasstarting to bleed and I just
thought, well, this just isn't,I'm not going to do it.
So I went and got dad's razorand finished shaving my leg.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Can I just say I think grandma had cruel ideas of
how to mess with people.
Speaker 5 (29:02):
It probably had a lot to do with how she was raised.
And that's where breakinggenerational curses come in.
But that doesn't have anythingto do with what I know you
ladies are talking about todayI've got some more follow-up
questions.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Adis, okay, so jen's in the store with you, right?
So you're just out running someerrands and you was like, hey,
let's go make this stop.
Did jen ask questionsafterwards?
I think she's referring to theSilver.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Fox.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
The Silver Fox.
Did she have questionsafterwards Like what was that
experience?
Like I'm trying to know a youngJenny now.
Like was she baffled, was hermouth open?
Pause, y'all.
Not in that kind of way, butlike was she like, hey, what is?
Speaker 5 (29:45):
this.
Well see, jenny was an adultthen, wasn't she?
No, no.
Speaker 3 (29:50):
Mom, I was like 14, 15 when I started going with you
and I think I just didn'trealize what was behind the
curtain.
I kept a straight face andwalked around and read the
humorous cards and funnyt-shirts.
Speaker 5 (30:01):
You weren't allowed to go back behind the curtain.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (30:05):
Did I ask questions?
Not that I recall.
Yeah, did I ask questions?
Not that I recall, uh, but Iwouldn't have ended up at that
store to begin with if it wasn'tfor one of my friends, debbie,
that her husband went to andbought her something.
Okay, wait a minute, debbie.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Well, yes, but this is a public platform, so you
should, we shouldn't go into I'mnot saying I'm not saying last
names, I've just yeah, okay,pretty much the whole community
is marvin, so yeah but, but.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
But it's your name, is this?
But it's part of your story,jen, so using her first name
won't say she won't figure itout.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I'm just in shock over here.
Okay, I grew up in a very, verylds community.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
No, she couldn't even .
She didn't even go buygroceries on Sunday.
And if she did, she opened thegarage, pulled in closed the
garage before she would take thegroceries out of the trunk of
her car.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
So the neighbors wouldn't see.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So the neighbors wouldn't see that she went
shopping on Sunday.
Was that not something you cando?
Correct, unless things havechanged.
A lot of things have changed inthe decades.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
But here's the thing I always thought about this,
about the whole not shopping onSunday.
If somebody from church saw you, they're there too, they're
there too.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
That's true.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
And unless they're living across the street and not
at the grocery Good point.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Good point, yeah, hey , also, I know that I've talked
to you guys.
You've had a lot of questionsabout Mormonism, so this is a
great time to ask my momquestions about that too.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
What was it?
What was being in a Mormonlifestyle?
What was the topic around sexthen?
Was it also feared?
Because I grew up Catholic andit was pretty much, like you
know, a fear thing.
So in the Mormon religion is italso a fear thing, or are they
more open about it?
Speaker 5 (31:48):
I joined the Mormon church when I was in high school
and started dating somebodythat came from a Mormon family,
and so I grew up with a familythat seemed to have.
They weren't I don't.
I had a book on sex, so youknow, I found it up in the attic
, poking around in the attic,garage attic.
(32:09):
I would love to read that.
Now it's a vintage.
It would be a vintage book.
You know, my parents wereplayful and affectionate, but
there was definitely aseparation.
Parents were adults and kidswere kids and kids were you go
over there and we're going to beover here, you know.
(32:30):
So they had an adult life andwe pretty well just raised
ourselves.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, raised yourselves.
Yeah, kind of.
Yeah, I did too.
Free range, kid.
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
So my ideas about sex ?
It was, the book was boring tome and so I a friend, she and I
were down by a stream andreading it.
But I got bored and so she readand I went and played and poked
around and, you know, did mykid thing.
And it wasn't until datingsomebody, my first boyfriend in
(33:06):
high school that he wanted to betouchy-feely and it scared me
and so he dropped me and then mynext boyfriend was the person I
married.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
See, that's another thing that we need to be
educated on, like I hope hedidn't get hurt because he
dropped you.
You know, like what adisgusting thing to drop
somebody for.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Well, he found somebody else younger.
She was in the ninth grade andthey got pregnant, so that was
my next question.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Did you know anybody in high school that got pregnant
and what happened to thosewomen?
Speaker 5 (33:36):
The ones that did.
Back then.
People got married when theygot pregnant and most of them I
think all of them that I went toschool with are still together.
Wow, even if they were underage, they had to get married.
They're still together.
Wow, even if they were underage, they had to get married Like
16?
Yeah, the only circumstanceI've ever known of where
somebody didn't get married wasa neighbor whose daughter got
(33:56):
pregnant and the parents wereMormon and they insisted that
she adopt the baby out.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Wow, that's hard.
Insist too, picking up my nextquestion.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
That's great that they're still together, though,
yeah, but was abortion talkedabout, since I didn't have a
pregnancy problem to discuss,you know, I don't know how that
would have been handled by otherpeople.
My husband and his first wifegot married because they were
(34:27):
pregnant and did one of theparents suggest you had the
option and you chose to have thechild?
Yeah State was this inWashington?
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Stepdad was married to his first wife 12 years and
then she left, left the daughterwith him.
He eventually remarried a womanwith a daughter.
He helped raise that daughterand when she left because he's
got the worst luck ever heactually kept her daughter and
finished a good man.
I think he's been treatedpretty badly by some women in
(35:13):
the past, yet he has such aheart for children and love for
people that I find it amazing.
And the fact that he raised mystepsister, his own stepdaughter
I think that's pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
He sounds like a great man.
That's amazing.
He is a great man.
Let's see.
I think that's pretty amazing.
He sounds like a great man.
That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
He is a great man.
Let's see, I think we shouldask questions about the temple.
Oh, our guest.
I feel like a lot of thisMormon stuff has to do with sex
and stuff too, and there wassome weird stuff you told me
about the temple.
Speaker 5 (35:42):
Yeah, yeah, it's actually.
It's no secret that the templeseraph fashioned after the
Masons.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
Well, aware of the Masons, had no idea it had to do
with Masons either.
I'm going to ask my brotherthis it doesn't.
Speaker 5 (35:57):
But Joseph Smith was a Mason, and so when?
So it's the sign of the cross,or like you'll kill yourself if
you ever give away your templename, or whatever you do all of
these vows in the temple and youare given, you're given a name
(36:20):
that women are given theirheavenly names, and you're not
allowed to speak of it exactly.
If you say your name out loud,you will go to hell.
Wait, okay, I got questions.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
What's the point?
I got questions, andy, gotquestions, andy.
Andy has so many questions.
Speaker 5 (36:38):
I actually had to emotionally divorce myself from
the church.
One of the first things I didwhen I went out on a mountain
bike ride is I went out and wentup on a mountaintop, put my
bike down and shook my fists upin the air and I said my temple
name is Margaret and I am notgoing to hell.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
That is the most powerful moment and I want to
make a movie about that.
Wow, that is so powerful insuch as, like stick it to the
man.
Like Andy, you can ask yourquestion.
I'm over here like yes, yes,Did you wear the?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
what is it called the garments?
Yes the garments.
Speaker 5 (37:17):
Yes, and they have symbols on them that are
associated with the mason.
Are they heavy?
They're lightweight, they'relike wearing a slip.
Except that they're like backin the early 70s.
Um, should I talk about thedesign of them?
I mean, they were onesies.
They were onesies and they hadno buttons or is it never heard
(37:37):
of this?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
you wore this under your outfit.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Go potty you gotta completely get undressed.
Speaker 5 (37:43):
Uh, there's a slip down at the crotch right and
right like the body, the bodyshapers.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Now Right, you're not body shapers.
Speaker 5 (37:52):
You would just, you know, lift your dress up or
whatever, and you know, pullthat aside.
And do you wear this with everyoutfit?
I've never heard this before.
Yes, you always wear it.
As a matter of fact, you wearyour undergarments, like panties
or a bra, over the top of them.
Why over the top?
Because the garment is supposedto touch your body.
Then why are you?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
wearing the undergarments.
If you're wearing the garments,why are you wearing underwear
If the garments are covering upall the spots?
Speaker 5 (38:18):
why are you wearing underwear?
Sometimes, there's times of themonth where you want a little
more coverage.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Gotcha.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Valid, valid.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
So during times of the month, are you supposed to
wear that and then underwear,because then you would just get
that.
I guess you could put a pad init.
I have so many questions.
Can you?
Yeah, can you?
I didn't use pads, were you?
Speaker 5 (38:39):
allowed to use tampons yes, okay, some families
yeah, allowed, allowed.
Some families I mean nowthere's a family member that I'm
aware of that wasn't allowed to.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah.
Inside family when I grew up.
I grew up in Saudi Arabia andthey don't have tampons there.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
The women are allowed , so we had to bring them in.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I didn't know what a tampon was until I got well into
high school where one of myteammates was like this is how
you use it.
We did not have theconversation, you weren't
supposed to do it, and I wasactually told that I would lose
my that I would break my hymenusing tampons.
And so there you go.
Speaker 5 (39:16):
Yeah, families are different.
We didn't have any pads in ourhouse and we didn't have any
tampons.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
We didn't even know how to use them.
I did.
My mom didn't even know what tobuy.
I learned in high school gym.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
Okay, at least you had hopefully some friends you
learned from.
Speaker 4 (39:33):
They did.
They told me they're like don'tinsert it this way, Do it this
way.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's less thankful for good friends that watch your
things and because of that isthe reason why I started talking
and I wish I would have had theconversation.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeso seriously.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeso seriously.
I got my cycle in fourth gradeand nobody talked to me and I
literally thought I was dyingand getting your cycle early.
Understand that it happens inthe family.
Nobody said so and so got theircycle that early too, and then
(40:01):
it happened to my daughter.
Right now we gotta have theconversation because if my cycle
came early, there's alikelihood yours will come early
and and you know what you canget pregnant at Nine when you
have a period at nine.
But and girls are getting theircycles earlier, but we're not
having the conversation andwe're shaming them in their
curiosity.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
And that's very sad, and that's what happened to me.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I was shamed in my curiosity.
When I had questions it waslike I'm afraid to ask these or
I'm ashamed to ask these becauseyou may think that I'm loose or
proud.
Speaker 5 (40:33):
Told mom well, we had this classroom discussion and
mom said good, and at 14,.
(40:54):
Then I said well, I, apparentlythis is the time and she goes.
Well, tampons are in thebathroom, go figure it out.
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Goodness, no wonder I was afraid of Grandma Annie.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
So you converted.
I got some more Mormonquestions, so you converted into
Mormonism when you were dating?
Yeah, did you have a lot ofdomestic roles?
Were you expected to be heavilydomesticated when you converted
, like I don't know how to saythat in a way that doesn't?
Speaker 5 (41:32):
My mother worked.
She worked when we childrenwere young, we had a babysitter,
but otherwise the examples thatI had in my lifetime growing up
I mean by the time I was injunior high she was not working
anymore, just full-time mom.
And so full-time mom was therole model I had, and especially
with the extended Mormon family.
Domestic cooking, cleaning,having babies is what the
Mormons were about then.
(41:52):
And let's say, my first husbandand I went back east to his
last military station to set uphousekeeping for the first time.
He went to the PX and did someshopping for us and came home
with a broom and a dustpan andit's kind of like boom, it's
(42:13):
like duh All of a sudden.
It was kind of like I got hitwith a baseball and it was like
wow, I got to do this the restof my life.
This is it Cleaning laundry.
That was just kind of a turningpoint for me.
I was a, a free range kid, justkind of like I played in the
hills and I was not a girly girlat all.
(42:34):
Was it packaged?
Speaker 2 (42:35):
for you in the way that.
So for me it was always bundledin a way of you have to be the
Proverbs woman, but they neverfinished reading the rest of
what that meant and how you weresupposed to serve the man of
the house and all those things.
But it also continues to sayand they're supposed to do the
same for you, but the part ofthe verse being the proverb wife
(42:57):
, they always hung up on theyou're supposed to cater to your
spouse but left out the partwhere it's supposed to be mutual
respect.
That's how it was packaged forme.
So I was expected the examplesthat I got growing up and me
getting married and doing allthe things I was expected to do.
What my grandma did and thatwas bring them their plate and
(43:18):
ask them if they're hungry andput the stuff on there and then
wait for them to say that theyneeded something else and to be
readily available when they saidthey needed something.
While doing laundry and rearingkids and all of those things, I
didn't realize how deeply seatedor rooted that was for me until
I had a daughter and shestarted dating.
I'm like, wait a minute, he canfix his own plate.
(43:41):
It's literally it's okay to askhey, I'm up, you want me to fix
your plate?
And they're like sure, becauseI was already doing it.
But I started to look aroundhow I was raised and the males
in my life were sitting waitingfor their plate, Not like oh,
you are already up, Can you grabthis for me?
(44:01):
It was the expectation that Icame here and I sat at 6 pm and
there's not a plate in front ofme.
You hadn't brought it yet.
That's how I was raised.
That was my example of how tobe a wife, how to be a good wife
and how to be a good mother,and I'm glad that that is not
the thing that I continue toroll out, because that's weird.
Speaker 5 (44:26):
You know, on my first marriage, the men of the
families, they got up.
It was usually like potluckstyle when we had big family
dinners and they served theirown, they got their own plates,
but after that it was like menwent to watch football on TV and
the women all went to thekitchen to clean and the kids
went outside.
Yeah same.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
So I have a question yes, and it goes back to the
garments side yeah, same.
So I have a question yes, andit goes back to the garments.
Speaker 5 (44:52):
What did the symbols stand for?
I don't remember.
I'd actually have to go look itup on the Masons, but it has to
do with truth, maybefaithfulness.
And then the ones on the knees,I can't remember, one on each
chest and one on the bellybutton.
That was for, I think, health,and then the one on the knees
were I don't know.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
I don't remember, did the men wear them as well?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
Okay, good, good, and basically, to my understanding,
if your garments were showing,then you were not dressing
appropriately.
Speaker 5 (45:23):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
And then, over the decades, the garments evolved
because women started havingmore active lifestyles.
So all of a sudden the garmentsstarted getting shorter so that
women could wear capri pants.
The cap sleeves went to, Ithink, no cap, and then they
went to two-piece with an actualcrotch in them.
(45:46):
So now you had, you know, topand bottom.
Speaker 3 (45:50):
Made for easy access right.
Well, that was the old one.
Speaker 5 (45:55):
Well, you were supposed to.
I mean, it got.
If you were to back in theearly decades, you were only
supposed to take them off whenyou took baths, so did you have
to wear them under swimmingsuits?
Speaker 1 (46:07):
No, Probably weren't wearing swimming suits.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Wait, what did the swimming suits look like?
Because I've seen some Mormongroups that have on swimsuits
that look like culottes andthey're like full suits but
they're not like form fittingand their necks are covered but
they're still in the water.
It's like giant palazzoswimsuits.
Speaker 5 (46:26):
I think at one point in time I bought a swimsuit a
one piece and that seemed to bea great turn on because that was
the closest thing to a negligeeI would have ever put on.
Wow.
You got some totic.
Speaker 3 (46:40):
You had lots of silky silky pajamas though you might
not have had like negligees, butyou had lots of like silky,
satiny pajamas.
I remember folding them whenfolding laundry.
I mean, granted they were likeshirts and pants, but still they
were like all silky.
Speaker 5 (46:54):
Yeah, those were nice .
Speaker 3 (46:55):
That was the closest to sexy our household was.
Speaker 5 (46:58):
Yeah, until I evolved sexually.
Speaker 3 (47:02):
So do you remember back then chronic illness
conversations happening withinthe church and how was that
dealt with?
Or was it friend, none, I mean?
Speaker 1 (47:15):
I wonder, why though?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
because I remember my aunt being diagnosed with ms,
but I didn't know what it was atthe time or understand how
serious it was, and I don'tremember there ever being real
conversations about it otherthan just my aunt had MF.
Speaker 5 (47:28):
Yeah, when we came back from the last duty station
for the military and settled inthe hometown and started going
to a church there Mormon and theladies you know, the men go out
home teaching the ladies who goout visiting teaching to the
ladies of the church I wasassigned a woman that had met MS
.
But the gals just said go visither, and that's all.
(47:50):
They said I've never done thisbefore.
And then they said she has MS.
I didn't know what MS was, Ididn't know that she was
bedridden.
It was kind of like I justdon't think there was much
enough education on it then.
And if there was education onit, it certainly wasn't the
(48:11):
women who were educated.
Speaker 3 (48:12):
Well, and I think that also to go with that, you
know babies dying that wasn't aconversation that we had either.
I remember hearing about someof these people losing children
or whatever, hearing that theirbabies had passed in their sleep
and hearing this happening whatI felt was a lot as I was
growing up, but never aconversation of why or anything
(48:35):
like that.
Speaker 5 (48:35):
So it's almost like we just didn't talk about health
in general, or am I wrong?
No, there wasn't conversations,just was not.
When your dad got cancer, jenny, I really didn't know what it
was.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, Another conversation and I'll bring my
mom and we can all discuss.
I love this.
Okay, we're going to plan.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
I love this okay, we're gonna plan this out.
We are gonna plan this out.
All right, ladies, until nexttime, don't forget your spoon.
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