June 2, 2025 • 34 mins
Have you ever wondered what it's like to be both the healer and the one in need of healing? Meet Mallory Carlson, an acupuncturist of nearly 12 years who has simultaneously navigated her own 16-year journey with debilitating migraines and women's health issues.
Mallory takes us deep into the raw reality of chronic pain, sharing how she's learned to read her body's signals and transform what once required days of recovery into hours. Her story illuminates the profound mental health challenges that come with chronic illness—from the isolation of canceled plans to the guilt of feeling like you're "too much"—and the powerful practice of self-compassion she's developed in response.
The conversation turns particularly powerful when Mallory describes her experiences with medical gaslighting and the physical, almost shock-like reaction she had when finally finding a doctor who recognized her condition after 14 years of searching. "It was such a physical experience," she explains, "the act of being seen and finding someone who can take care of you."
From this frustration emerged her platform, The Audacious Patient, born from righteous rage at healthcare inequities and dedicated to making complex medical information accessible. As Mallory shifts from hands-on patient care to education and advocacy, she's channeling her personal struggles into a mission that helps others avoid the years of confusion she endured.
Whether you're managing chronic illness, supporting someone who is, or simply interested in healthcare advocacy, this episode offers practical wisdom, validation, and a reminder that sometimes our greatest challenges become our greatest gifts to others. As Mallory beautifully summarizes what it means to be part of a chronic illness community: "It's solidarity and just a quiet knowing... we just have to be there for each other."
Are you living with a chronic illness and want to make your voice heard? Rare Patient Voice connects patients and caregivers with research opportunities—so you can share your experiences and get paid for your time! Your insights help drive real change in healthcare.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters, where we
spotlight the raw realities,strength and soul of chronic
illness warriors across theglobe.
Today's guest is the definitionof audacious a healer, a
fighter and an educator with aheart that refuses to quit.
Meet Mallory Carlson, anacupuncturist of nearly 12 years
(00:21):
and a chronic pain patient forover 16.
She's been navigatingdebilitating migraines and
women's health concerns withincredible resilience, all while
holding space for others toheal.
Lately, her purpose has begunto shift.
She's feeling called to moveaway from hands-on care and lean
into educating and empoweringothers through her platform.
(00:44):
The Audacious Patient, malloryis also a fantasy-loving
bookworm, a theme partyenthusiast, a lover of nature
walks and beach days, bonfiresand game nights with friends and
, of course, she's a cat mom toHazel, her 15-year-old snuggle
queen.
Mallory brings honesty, depthand a refreshing dose of humor
(01:05):
to her advocacy, and we're soexcited to have her on the show.
We also have our co-hosts, andyByers and Linnea Knisley.
Welcome, welcome, mallory.
Thank you for being here.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your journey into
acupuncture and what initiallydrew you to this healing path?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Absolutely, and thank you for having me.
Well, I have always been reallydrawn to holistic healing,
healing in general, particularlythat kind of blends, kind of
left brain and right brainthinking, kind of a more factual
pragmatic with a more creativespiritual kind of thinking.
So acupuncture felt like areally good fit.
(01:44):
I actually dove intoacupuncture school before I ever
even had acupuncture before.
I just kind of made it anintuitive decision that it was
the avenue for me.
So it was kind of happenstance,but it ended up being a really
good match for me.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What's it been like balancing your role as a healer
while also being someone wholives with chronic pain yourself
?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
A real challenge, honestly, some days better than
others, of course, as is theroller coaster of chronic pain,
but for the most part I've foundit to be helpful in my role as
a healer because I am able torelate and understand people's
experience of pain in a muchdeeper way than if I just was an
outsider who just had thehealer's hands and didn't
(02:29):
experience it myself.
But certainly the days where Ihave to go in with a migraine
are tough.
I'm lucky enough to have a bosswho also struggles with
migraines, so there is a lot ofcompassion in my workplace when
that does happen.
But it doesn't make it any lesshard because I just try to push
through if I can and at thesame time it can actually be
(02:50):
helpful to just be able to gointo the clinic and be focused
on other people's other peopleperiod rather than my own pain
and my own issues.
So it's a mixed bag, but mostlyI find it to be helpful.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I can see how having a chronic illness and what you
do would be actually probablyvery helpful for the patient and
you, because you both can seeyou're not alone in this.
My own primary is a doctor whohas a chronic illness.
I love having a doctor.
You've been living withmigraines for 16 years.
How have they evolved over timeand impacted your day-to-day
(03:27):
life?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's really had quite an up-and-down evolution.
So it started out kind of slowand it started out when I was in
acupuncture school, I think,just being a student on silver
books and computers and sittingin a classroom for eight hours a
day, whatever, I think it wenton slowly in a classroom, for
you know, eight hours a day,whatever I think brought it on
(03:49):
slowly.
I do think it is definitelymusculoskeletal rooted.
Because of that itprogressively got worse over the
course of a few years where I,you know, started getting them
three or four times a week andthat's you know where I'm
totally throwing up and justcannot function Until I found I
did find a doctor who she kindof was like I don't really know
(04:10):
what to do for migraines.
I was like, well, it's verymusculoskeletal rooted.
She's like, well, let's trysome muscle relaxers.
And so I did and it did.
It did really help.
I took muscle relaxers prettyreligiously for about six months
, which is longer than I wouldlike to have, but got to a point
where I stopped taking them.
And now, ever since that wasprobably seven, eight years ago
(04:32):
ever since I've come down tomigraines maybe once a month.
So big, big, big difference,but they are still just as
debilitating when they come on,and even if I don't go into like
a full migraine much more thanonce a month, I still more
frequently can feel like I'medging toward a flare up.
I need to self-care, so I don'tgo down that path much more
frequently than that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You mentioned a migraine hangover that can last
into the next day.
Can you describe what thatfeels like and how you navigate?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
it?
Yeah, absolutely.
When I get migraines, I'mtypically waking up with them
and I've kind of been able toexpedite my migraine experience
just because I know how they are.
So if I wake up with a littlebit of neck pain, just a little
bit of a kink in the neck, Iknow I have to get out of bed
right now or I'm going to bethrowing up in three hours.
(05:21):
However, most of the time I dostart moving around and I, you
know, I get my pain patch on, Iget my heat on, I take some
ibuprofen, I do whatever stretchand usually I end up having to
throw up before then it passesor I'm able to kind of lay down
again and it can pass.
So then the rest of the day,typically after that, once the
worst of it is over, thehangover is very like I'm still
(05:43):
achy, I still have the muscleaches, but you know, not as bad
and I'm very hazy, foggy, can'tconcentrate, I'm starving.
It's really not just similarfrom an alcohol hangover, I will
say.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's absolutely terrible it is.
I've experienced it myself andI think a lot of people have.
And yeah, I think you do agreat job of putting into words
what it feels like For me.
I think I'm always tellingpeople like give me no sound, no
light, no movement.
Just let me be in a really darkroom and go away.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yep, yep.
I have found, actually, though,that for me, I need that for
that period of time where I'mlike, oh my gosh, I'm sick, and
then I just was sick.
Now I need to relax and let itpass, but once I'm over the
worst of it, I actually have toget up and move.
I have to get out and move,otherwise it won't pass.
Like motion is lotion right,like even just a gentle walk,
(06:34):
even just you know whatever,like putting dishes in the
dishwasher, just be sick, justmoving around the house can be
helpful, but it is all abouttiming, because if I try to push
it, it's not going to be good.
If I don't try to get myselfout of it at a certain point,
it's also not good.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So it's learning how to read your body which is not
easy Absolutely, and I thinkthose that suffer with migraines
they get to know their bodybetter through time and they
know what works for them andwhat doesn't.
My husband had his firstmigraine last year and as he
kept describing how he wasfeeling, I'm like, oh my gosh,
you're having a migraine, likehere's an ice pack, go lay down,
(07:13):
stop trying to do all thethings you're trying to do.
And I went to check on him 10minutes later and he was passed
out on the bed, ice pack on hisneck and everything, and it
worked.
But some people, if they'venever experienced that, they
have no idea.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You don't know how to yeah what's going on or how to
manage it.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, I've taken all the ibuprofen and I've done all
the things.
Why is the headache not goingaway?
Well, because it's not aheadache.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yep, yep, more yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Can we just pivot for a second?
So living in chronic pain cankind of make you feel like
you're going bonkers, becauseit's not something that other
people can see.
So how has living with chronicpain influenced your mental
health?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You know it can kind of be a mind game.
You know just kind of start towonder if your needs are too
much.
If you know it's the isolationthat can come with it, right,
like, if you've got a migraineyou're not going, that can come
with it, right.
Like if you've got a migraineyou're not going to hang out
with your friends.
You know you can't go to workand isolation is definitely, you
(08:12):
know where a lot of that.
You've got to get trapped inyour own head and start
overthinking and all you can seeis your pain or your isolation
or, you know, fixate on things.
Because you know if you're inthis kind of negative, you know
physical state, your brain'sgoing to go there too, maybe not
all the time, but more easily.
(08:32):
Maybe we'll say that.
So it can be difficult if youcan't get up.
I mean, I'm definitely somebodyI can't just sit at home and do
nothing and feel good about itgenerally Once in a while, cool,
great.
Yes, I love rest, but if I'mliterally just stuck at home, I
will totally start to spin outand just get in my head about
stuff.
Chronic pain can really take atoll and as it affects your
(08:56):
relationships I've had to cancelso many plans with my friends
or things that I've wanted to dobecause I just couldn't.
And luckily I have reallycultivated a really supportive
group of friends, some of who doalso deal with chronic pain and
others who are justcompassionate people and they
understand and they know thatI'm not canceling because I want
to you know whatnot butdefinitely there's guilt that
(09:18):
goes along with that and thatguilt can feed into the
struggles.
So it's a multi-layered thingfor sure into the struggles.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
So it's a it's a multi-layered thing, for sure it
is multi-layered.
I think that sometimes theheaviest part that we carry is
the guilt of saying I can't andwe were just talking about it
last week, of the I can't butbeing able to say I can't for
reasons that care for you sothat you can later.
But the guilt part, it's thesilent echo that lives rent free
(09:45):
in your mind but I just toldso-and-so no.
And what if they think this?
Because I can't, or if I say noagain this time, they'll stop
inviting me places because theyautomatically assume that my
answer is no.
But then you carry guilt forsaying yes when you know that
you should have said no, and Ithink that's the misconception.
(10:07):
People don't see that part thatyou carry guilt for saying yes,
yes to showing up for someonethat wasn't you, when you knew
that you didn't feel well.
What are some of your keycoping mechanisms?
How do you?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
talk yourself down.
I have developed a goodinternal introspective tools in
regards to that, namely justself-compassion.
Right, I treat myself as if Iwould treat a girlfriend or
anybody, or a patient.
If I have a patient come in andthey're crying because they
can't go to work or whatever itis, I pat them on the shoulder
and I'm going to say you aredoing everything you can.
(10:43):
I just very much mother myself.
That really eases it.
Um and and uh.
Speaking to my inner child, tolike the inner child who was
told like you're not doingenough or you're you are too
much, or all the, all the thingsthat we, you know that we have
deep-seated speaking to that,because it's that part of you
that often is the part of youthat is having those, those
(11:08):
conflicted feelings.
So I just just be very gentlewith myself and when I can't, my
partner does it for me.
I'm very lucky, very, verylucky, to have a very supportive
partner.
So that's kind of what I leanon.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So you talked a little bit when we talked to you
about feeling dismissed inmedical settings.
What has that experience beenlike and how have you learned to
advocate for yourself when youfeel like you're not being heard
in those spaces?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Good question.
So I I have been dismissed withthe migraine piece.
You know, to an extent Ihaven't sought an abundance of
care from Western providersother than getting those muscle
relaxers.
At one point, because I work inthe field that I do, I've
really kind of leaned on that.
(11:55):
So the migraines just kind of.
They just kind of get likethey're brought up and then
disregarded.
Where I felt the gaslightingpiece much more is the women's
health piece experience thatI've had it's struggling with
issues where walking in a lot ofdoctors are like I literally
have never seen this before.
I have no idea.
Your only option is surgery,but I don't know who's going to
(12:18):
do that for you because it'ssuch a sensitive thing that you
are probably just going to haveto.
You either have to like dealwith some serious lifelong risks
or just deal with thecontinuing to have this issue
and that has been so painful.
So I mean I stopped seekingcare for years because I was
(12:38):
like nobody can help me.
You just end up feelingunhelpful, you just have to
suffer and it's terrible.
It's a terrible feeling.
I finally finally have found adoctor who I.
The first time I went and sawher she was like oh yeah, I saw.
I've seen that before.
I just dealt with that lastweek.
We're cool, I got a plan foryou, we're all good.
And oh my God, I cannot tellyou how amazing that was to feel
(13:03):
.
And this was only recently.
This was within the last sixmonths that I found this doctor.
So the fact that it took me Imean, I've had this particular
issue since probably 13, 14years now and finally it took me
that long to find somebody whoknows what's up.
So the dismissal is verypainful.
We'll just say that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And it feels so good when they get what we're talking
about, even better when theystruggle with the same thing and
they can say you need to dothis, this and this.
I remember going to theemergency room one time because
a migraine had gotten so bad andmy husband was worried.
They were like, oh yeah, wedeal with this all the time.
(13:43):
I've got the perfect cocktailfor you and I was like, wow,
okay, I think I'm in good hands.
Yeah, and that's such a greatfeeling, because who wants to go
ask for help and feel you'regetting dismissed or ignored or
blown off?
No, you want the people thatget it, that see you for who you
are and have the exact advice,tips and what to do, even if
(14:07):
it's not just medication, ifit's other things too.
Give me all the things.
I want to know it all.
What are you going to do tomake me feel better?
Please bring it all Right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I mean it's really is traumatizing, right?
It was fully braced when I wasgoing into this doctor's
appointment, this most recentone.
He finally gets it before I hadmet her.
I was going into theappointment fully braced, to be
told can't help you.
Sorry, you know.
And after I left I I I kepttelling my boyfriend all day I
was like I keep feeling like I'mhaving like brain glitches
(14:38):
Cause like my brain didn't't,couldn't compute that somebody
could actually help me, like hadI just had to continuously
shudder and just like let mybody have that that very
visceral reaction or somaticreaction, rather, because it was
such a shock to the system andI was able to release that
trauma that I had been carrying.
You know, obviously I wasn'table to release 16 years or
(14:58):
whatever it was of trauma inthat moment, but it was just
such a physical experience, theact of being seen and finding
someone who can take care of you.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Now, what do you wish ?
That providers understoodbetter about migraines and
chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
There's just no one size fits all answer.
I feel like in Western medicinethey go headache to headache, a
migraine to migraine In a lotof cases.
In Chinese medicine it's notlike that at all.
It's all about patterns and,you know, we can kind of get to
diagnoses based on specificsymptoms that you're having,
because not all migraines lookor feel exactly the same.
And so being able todifferentiate a little bit in
(15:36):
terms of how you treat and alsobeing super mindful of how
you're communicating withpatients I've had patients come
in my office and be like I had adoctor tell me you are in such
bad health you could go to sleepand not wake up the next
morning.
So the patient didn't go to bed, didn't want to go to sleep for
(15:56):
a week because she was soscared.
These types of things.
Being super mindful of the wayyou're wording things, because
they have such an impact on theperson who's hearing them, on
the person who's coming to youfor help I think that's the
biggest thing, because chronicpain is chronic.
It often doesn't go away,unfortunately.
But care is as much thephysical piece as it is the
(16:19):
emotional piece.
I think that gets lost a lot inthe system.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You've built an impressive self-care toolkit.
Can you walk us through some ofthe things that help you the
most?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Man, I have so many things that I do.
Anytime a migraine hits, youknow, I grab the topical creams,
the pain patches, the heatingpad, ibuprofen.
I do have a small stash ofmuscle relaxers that I just save
for when I really really needthem.
What else do I do?
I have a TENS unit.
That's been huge.
That has been really reallyhelpful.
(16:51):
Cannabis is really reallyhelpful, particularly for the
muscle pain and the nausea piece.
What else?
do I do Just stretching andgentle movement, going for a
little walk, getting a littlephysical movement in, but not
pressuring myself to go bust outa hard workout.
That's too much in thosemoments, but just something.
Being able and learning how tolisten to your body, I think is
(17:12):
such a huge piece Because, likeyou said before, when it's a new
experience you don't understandwhat's happening or how to
navigate it.
Now, 15 years later, I'm stillknocked over by it often enough,
but I can expedite theexperience and recover within a
couple hours, whereas in thepast it might have been a couple
of days.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
With the TENS unit?
Where do you place it?
To help with something likethat?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
My issues are very much.
I have just persistent knotsaround my right shoulder blade,
so I usually focus it aroundthere.
You got to be real careful withthe tensing neck.
If you put it too close to yourneck in certain ways it can
just pull your, you know, whichis just.
It kind of mimics the spasm ofa migraine, so it can have the
opposite effect.
Um, when it kind of snaps your,your neck, you know together uh
(18:00):
to your shoulder, but otherwiseuh typically do it further down
on the back, because even whenI'm having the pain up in my
neck and head, I know that theroot of it is further down and
so I can get those muscles torelax.
Everything up the chain isrelaxed.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay, I've never even thought to try one for a
migraine, so I've used it foreverything else, uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I mean, it certainly depends on where your migraines
are coming from, right, if it'snot a musculos-based one, if
it's more vasodilation, whereyou're getting too much blood to
your head all of a sudden, it'snot necessarily going to have
the same effect, but if there'sa muscle piece, it's super
helpful.
Worth a shot.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
With so many tools and strategies, how do you know
when to lean into one versusrest and do less?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I've developed a protocol.
I know if I do the thing whereI wake up with that neck pain, I
got to do everything I can, Ithrow everything at it.
Usually it doesn't culminateuntil I actually throw up and
then I lay back down or Iusually I sit, I prop myself up
and sit with the heating padwith, with all the things that I
can't, that I can.
But then once I wake up fromthat nap, after that that's when
(19:10):
I know it's rest time.
If we take it easy today, don'tpush it prior to a migraine.
If I feel one starting to comeon, often I'll, you know, I'll
feel the ache come on in theevening, but then the actual
migraine doesn't come on untilthe mornings and in those cases
I might be getting that tensingit out, I might be getting, you
know, a Theracane out, doingsome self-massage.
(19:30):
You know, whatever it is, Ivery rarely have nothing going
on here like in terms of Iusually have a pain patch or
something because it is sochronic.
But knowing when to rest andknowing when to push it is
definitely just.
It's a matter of experience andlearning how to reach your body
and knowing, like you know, howyour specific pain experience
(19:52):
progresses once it begins.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Can you tell us a little bit about the Audacious
Patient?
What inspired you to create it?
What's the mission behind it?
What's it all about?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I started the audacious patient.
Honestly, it came out of rage.
It came out of seeing all ofthe injustices in the system,
all of the cracks that peoplefall through, all of the debt
that people become saddled with,and wanting better for people,
for everyone as well as myself,you know.
(20:24):
And making it accessible andmaking it almost fun, right,
like this stuff is so boring,it's so overwhelming, it's
daunting, it's gross, it's notsexy, and so if I can make it
absorbable, digestible forpeople, because I just know for
myself, I didn't know any ofthis stuff until I got into my
30s.
I didn't have health insurance,I didn't go to the doctor, I
(20:47):
didn't know how to find doctors,I didn't know anything.
It's because it's sointentionally confusing and
daunting.
And now that I'm older and I'vebeen on both sides of it for
long enough now and seen so muchnot go right for people, I want
to do what I can to help guidepeople to get the care that they
(21:08):
need and deserve, because thesystem is so screwed up and we
deserve better.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
I agree, I agree.
I love that you have a voiceand I love that that voice is
roaring, that you want to changeit for the community Because,
seriously, it's kind of a lot ofshenanigans going on.
How does shifting away fromhands-on patient care, how does
that new chapter feel for you?
So I'm a nurse by trade and Iwent more holistic once my
(21:39):
chronic illness journey startedto unfold.
So I'm more on the holisticside, doing what would say it
started with rage for me as well.
I started to hit thatgaslighting circle and I was
like wait a minute, I'm a wholepractitioner.
I know that you're lying to meand so and I've sat in rooms
while you lie to other patients,while I understood that real
(21:59):
things were happening to them.
What does that shift feel likefor you?
Is it scary and empowering, ornot so much scary anymore?
But you're like heck, yeah,let's do this because I'm a
badass Like where are you inthat transition?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
That's definitely got a mixed answer as well.
You know, I would say it's bothscary and empowering and, to
use your words, more empoweringthan scary at this point.
But definitely, kind of comingout of the treatment room and
kind of belting this stuff outloud, there is an intimidation
piece putting yourself out intothe world.
What if everybody thinks it'sstupid or hates it or whatever,
(22:36):
which I know that's not going tohappen, right, there's just
that little voice sometimes thatyou, you got to kind of contend
with.
So there is a bit of that, butfor the most part I just feel so
Ignited, right, like just somotivated to help ignite other
people.
Yeah, I don't want people to bespecifically avoiding getting
(22:56):
care because they don't know how, or they're scared or they're
you know they can't afford it,or whatever getting care because
they don't know how, or they'rescared or they're you know they
can't afford it, or whatever.
And so it feels like I can.
I'm very excited about theability to reach and help more
people than I can just withone-on-one patient care.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It's powerful it gives you the tinglys in a good
way Indeed so when you're notmanaging migraines or creating
content, where do you find yourjoy?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
hazel stories are encouraged that is on my note.
Hazel definitely is a bigstress reliever for me.
She's very cuddly, she's verykissy, she's silly.
Even though she's 15, she still, like, runs up and down the
stairs screaming opera songs,basically just meowing away, but
she also snuggles up and sleepsand and and whatnot.
(23:45):
Um, so she definitely can helpkind of bring me back down to
earth, calm me down and make melaugh like rest of the gamut,
right, um, otherwise, you know II love getting outside when I
can and spending time withfriends.
Uh, like you said in the intro,like game nights and bonfires
and beach days.
I love floating in a lake and Ialso like the introverted, like
(24:07):
reading my books, and you knowI like a good balance of because
I am, I would say, more on theintrovert side of things.
So I do definitely like my solostuff, but I love my friends, I
love the people in my life, soI love party games and art
nights and all that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So that those are the things that fill your cup in
between the bad days.
So I have to know more aboutthese theme parties you do, and
how does that fill your cup?
I gotta know more details onthat.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, I love a theme party.
My friends and I do.
We started doing them a lotduring covid, where you know we
just be like let's get in theyard and like have a little tiki
thing or like, um, you know,whatever we, whatever little way
, we could find joy andsilliness in a very hard time,
right, yeah, so now that life'spicked back up again they're
(25:00):
happening a little lessfrequently, but they still do,
and it's kind of you know who'sever birthday it is, picks the
theme or whatnot.
We've done glow-in-the-darkparties.
We've done country westernthemes.
We've done, like I said, tikiparties.
Which one was your favorite?
I think that's a tough one.
(25:21):
I would say the theglow-in-the-dark neon one was
pretty fun.
We had to art.
My friend's whole backyard litup with rope lights and and and
strobe lights and party lightsand black light like everything.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So that would fill my cup too.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I can see why you get your, your cup filled in.
I was like I want to glow morethan anyone else has ever glowed
before, so people just loadedme all up.
However, I did feel guilty thenext day with all the trash that
had accumulated, so I won't bedoing that again.
That's all one time, single use.
So I didn't like that piece,but the night of it was very,
(25:59):
very fun.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
What's your favorite game?
Party game.
I didn't like that piece, butthe night of.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It was very, very fun .
What's your favorite game?
Party game.
You know, there's this verysilly one, it doesn't, I don't
know.
There's probably a name for it,but it's basically, I call it a
visual telephone.
So you have, everybody has astack of pages for as many
people are in the circle, and onthe first page everybody just
writes like a phrase, and it canbe anything, and the goal is
(26:24):
you pass it to the next personand they will draw whatever you
wrote, and then the next thatperson will pass it and they
have to write what they thinkyou just threw, and so on and so
forth.
So it comes back to you and itit just never ceases to just
make you laugh till you cry.
You love it everybody, and Ialready love it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
It's so funny Because the things people would be
drawing that they thought that Isaid.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I already love it.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's hilarious.
Have you ever been to or had amurder mystery party?
I?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
haven't.
I did get invited to one acouple years ago and I ended up
having COVID so I wasn't able togo, but I have heard they're
really fun.
It feels a little intimidatingto me, depending on how involved
it is.
Like if I have to be a wholecharacter, that feels a little
bit involved for me, but itdepends on the people I'm with
and how involved it is.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Well, I can give you all the details.
My sister-in-law loves to dothemed parties as well.
She even did like a wholesurvivor themed party in her
backyard one time, but then itprogressed into murder mysteries
.
I've attended a few there, so Itend to do I'm crazy, so I do
(27:42):
the very involved characters.
I was a waitress one time.
I had to walk around and makesure everybody had their drinks,
but I also had to be very nosyand ask a lot of weird questions
.
And then we had one where thiswas probably my favorite.
It was trailer park tragedy,and so the trashier the better,
(28:02):
we all had to dress just astrashy as we could and I got the
lovely part of dying.
So that was super fun andtragic, uh-huh, yeah.
So I definitely that's fun totry it.
You can actually there's awebsite and you can decide.
You know how many people you'regoing to have, how big the
(28:24):
group is, and then each personcan say like how involved they
want to be cool okay, so, soit's flexible.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, I like that.
It's very flexible, which isgreat.
Look into that, yeah.
Yeah, I want to do an 80s one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, that sounds fun Okay anyway, what advice would
you give to someone newlydiagnosed and feeling
overwhelmed by chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I guess, I would tell them that they don't have to
know everything right now andit's okay to be gentle with
yourself and don't push yourselftoo hard.
I feel we're just so trapped inthis culture of productivity is
king and if you're not busy,then you're worthy of whatever,
and that's just not the case.
(29:09):
It's okay if you don't feelgood and you need to rest.
I think mostly I would justspeak to compassion regarding
those cases self-compassion.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Absolutely.
And for those fellowpractitioners who also struggle
with chronic illness, whatmessage would you like to share
with them?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
But also you need to have self-compassion and you are
human and it's.
It's okay if you also justcan't make it in one day or if
you're just not on all cylindersand maybe you save your patient
notes for the next day becauseyou just can't Do what you can,
and trust that when you feelbetter you'll be able to do more
(29:49):
.
Just patience, patience withyourself.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
The reminders that the importance of being
extremely gentle with yourself.
The world is rough enough.
They're just they're beating usup.
You know doctors were giving usthe business and not always
actively listening, and so Ilove that, the gentle reminders
to be gentle with yourself andpatient while you're being
gentle.
I can't believe that we chattedyour ear off and we haven't
(30:17):
asked you yet.
How can our listeners connectwith you and support?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
your work with the audacious patient.
Yeah, certainly, finding me onInstagram at the audacious
patient is a way to keep up withme on a daily, weekly basis.
Otherwise, my website haseverything
theaudaciouspatientcom.
I've got a small library offreebie resources.
You need scripts for how tonegotiate a medical bill or
(30:44):
advocating with doctors orcreating a health history
template, so it's easier whenyou do go into a new
practitioner for the first timedifferent sorts of things.
I also have a small shop withsome low cost resources as well
digital downloads, but those areTikTok.
I'm also on TikTok, but, yeah,social media and my website are
(31:07):
the best places.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
And finally, what does being a spony sister mean
to you?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It means that you, you understand, you understand
each other.
You are able to hold quietspace or people who suffer the
same thing as you, or their,their own version of of chronic
pain or illness, like then, ifit's different than yours, um,
so I guess it's, it's asolidarity and just a quiet
knowing right, like every.
(31:35):
This world is so loud and we,we just don't have to be loud,
but we just have to be there foreach other.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That was so peaceful yeah.
I really like to balance the my, my, my audacious patient brand
is very kind of loud and kindof in your face and whatnot.
I kind of jokingly call myselflike the sacred punk auntie.
I have this loud, rage filledkind of voice, but it also is
backed up by a lot of compassionand embodiedness and empathy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
It's balance.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I like to, I like to, yeah, lead with both of those
things.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm here for the balance.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
Absolutely Thank you for havingme Right.
Well, until next time, don'tforget your spoon.
Welcome back to my Spoonie Sisters, where we
spotlight the raw realities,strength and soul of chronic
illness warriors across theglobe.
Today's guest is the definitionof audacious a healer, a
fighter and an educator with aheart that refuses to quit.
Meet Mallory Carlson, anacupuncturist of nearly 12 years
(00:21):
and a chronic pain patient forover 16.
She's been navigatingdebilitating migraines and
women's health concerns withincredible resilience, all while
holding space for others toheal.
Lately, her purpose has begunto shift.
She's feeling called to moveaway from hands-on care and lean
into educating and empoweringothers through her platform.
(00:44):
The Audacious Patient, malloryis also a fantasy-loving
bookworm, a theme partyenthusiast, a lover of nature
walks and beach days, bonfiresand game nights with friends and
, of course, she's a cat mom toHazel, her 15-year-old snuggle
queen.
Mallory brings honesty, depthand a refreshing dose of humor
(01:05):
to her advocacy, and we're soexcited to have her on the show.
We also have our co-hosts, andyByers and Linnea Knisley.
Welcome, welcome, mallory.
Thank you for being here.
Can you tell us a little bitabout your journey into
acupuncture and what initiallydrew you to this healing path?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
Absolutely, and thank you for having me.
Well, I have always been reallydrawn to holistic healing,
healing in general, particularlythat kind of blends, kind of
left brain and right brainthinking, kind of a more factual
pragmatic with a more creativespiritual kind of thinking.
So acupuncture felt like areally good fit.
(01:44):
I actually dove intoacupuncture school before I ever
even had acupuncture before.
I just kind of made it anintuitive decision that it was
the avenue for me.
So it was kind of happenstance,but it ended up being a really
good match for me.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
What's it been like balancing your role as a healer
while also being someone wholives with chronic pain yourself
?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
A real challenge, honestly, some days better than
others, of course, as is theroller coaster of chronic pain,
but for the most part I've foundit to be helpful in my role as
a healer because I am able torelate and understand people's
experience of pain in a muchdeeper way than if I just was an
outsider who just had thehealer's hands and didn't
(02:29):
experience it myself.
But certainly the days where Ihave to go in with a migraine
are tough.
I'm lucky enough to have a bosswho also struggles with
migraines, so there is a lot ofcompassion in my workplace when
that does happen.
But it doesn't make it any lesshard because I just try to push
through if I can and at thesame time it can actually be
(02:50):
helpful to just be able to gointo the clinic and be focused
on other people's other peopleperiod rather than my own pain
and my own issues.
So it's a mixed bag, but mostlyI find it to be helpful.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
I can see how having a chronic illness and what you
do would be actually probablyvery helpful for the patient and
you, because you both can seeyou're not alone in this.
My own primary is a doctor whohas a chronic illness.
I love having a doctor.
You've been living withmigraines for 16 years.
How have they evolved over timeand impacted your day-to-day
(03:27):
life?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's really had quite an up-and-down evolution.
So it started out kind of slowand it started out when I was in
acupuncture school, I think,just being a student on silver
books and computers and sittingin a classroom for eight hours a
day, whatever, I think it wenton slowly in a classroom, for
you know, eight hours a day,whatever I think brought it on
(03:49):
slowly.
I do think it is definitelymusculoskeletal rooted.
Because of that itprogressively got worse over the
course of a few years where I,you know, started getting them
three or four times a week andthat's you know where I'm
totally throwing up and justcannot function Until I found I
did find a doctor who she kindof was like I don't really know
(04:10):
what to do for migraines.
I was like, well, it's verymusculoskeletal rooted.
She's like, well, let's trysome muscle relaxers.
And so I did and it did.
It did really help.
I took muscle relaxers prettyreligiously for about six months
, which is longer than I wouldlike to have, but got to a point
where I stopped taking them.
And now, ever since that wasprobably seven, eight years ago
(04:32):
ever since I've come down tomigraines maybe once a month.
So big, big, big difference,but they are still just as
debilitating when they come on,and even if I don't go into like
a full migraine much more thanonce a month, I still more
frequently can feel like I'medging toward a flare up.
I need to self-care, so I don'tgo down that path much more
frequently than that.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
You mentioned a migraine hangover that can last
into the next day.
Can you describe what thatfeels like and how you navigate?
Speaker 3 (05:00):
it?
Yeah, absolutely.
When I get migraines, I'mtypically waking up with them
and I've kind of been able toexpedite my migraine experience
just because I know how they are.
So if I wake up with a littlebit of neck pain, just a little
bit of a kink in the neck, Iknow I have to get out of bed
right now or I'm going to bethrowing up in three hours.
(05:21):
However, most of the time I dostart moving around and I, you
know, I get my pain patch on, Iget my heat on, I take some
ibuprofen, I do whatever stretchand usually I end up having to
throw up before then it passesor I'm able to kind of lay down
again and it can pass.
So then the rest of the day,typically after that, once the
worst of it is over, thehangover is very like I'm still
(05:43):
achy, I still have the muscleaches, but you know, not as bad
and I'm very hazy, foggy, can'tconcentrate, I'm starving.
It's really not just similarfrom an alcohol hangover, I will
say.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
It's absolutely terrible it is.
I've experienced it myself andI think a lot of people have.
And yeah, I think you do agreat job of putting into words
what it feels like For me.
I think I'm always tellingpeople like give me no sound, no
light, no movement.
Just let me be in a really darkroom and go away.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yep, yep.
I have found, actually, though,that for me, I need that for
that period of time where I'mlike, oh my gosh, I'm sick, and
then I just was sick.
Now I need to relax and let itpass, but once I'm over the
worst of it, I actually have toget up and move.
I have to get out and move,otherwise it won't pass.
Like motion is lotion right,like even just a gentle walk,
(06:34):
even just you know whatever,like putting dishes in the
dishwasher, just be sick, justmoving around the house can be
helpful, but it is all abouttiming, because if I try to push
it, it's not going to be good.
If I don't try to get myselfout of it at a certain point,
it's also not good.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
So it's learning how to read your body which is not
easy Absolutely, and I thinkthose that suffer with migraines
they get to know their bodybetter through time and they
know what works for them andwhat doesn't.
My husband had his firstmigraine last year and as he
kept describing how he wasfeeling, I'm like, oh my gosh,
you're having a migraine, likehere's an ice pack, go lay down,
(07:13):
stop trying to do all thethings you're trying to do.
And I went to check on him 10minutes later and he was passed
out on the bed, ice pack on hisneck and everything, and it
worked.
But some people, if they'venever experienced that, they
have no idea.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
You don't know how to yeah what's going on or how to
manage it.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Yeah, I've taken all the ibuprofen and I've done all
the things.
Why is the headache not goingaway?
Well, because it's not aheadache.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yep, yep, more yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Can we just pivot for a second?
So living in chronic pain cankind of make you feel like
you're going bonkers, becauseit's not something that other
people can see.
So how has living with chronicpain influenced your mental
health?
Speaker 3 (07:51):
You know it can kind of be a mind game.
You know just kind of start towonder if your needs are too
much.
If you know it's the isolationthat can come with it, right,
like, if you've got a migraineyou're not going, that can come
with it, right.
Like if you've got a migraineyou're not going to hang out
with your friends.
You know you can't go to workand isolation is definitely, you
(08:12):
know where a lot of that.
You've got to get trapped inyour own head and start
overthinking and all you can seeis your pain or your isolation
or, you know, fixate on things.
Because you know if you're inthis kind of negative, you know
physical state, your brain'sgoing to go there too, maybe not
all the time, but more easily.
(08:32):
Maybe we'll say that.
So it can be difficult if youcan't get up.
I mean, I'm definitely somebodyI can't just sit at home and do
nothing and feel good about itgenerally Once in a while, cool,
great.
Yes, I love rest, but if I'mliterally just stuck at home, I
will totally start to spin outand just get in my head about
stuff.
Chronic pain can really take atoll and as it affects your
(08:56):
relationships I've had to cancelso many plans with my friends
or things that I've wanted to dobecause I just couldn't.
And luckily I have reallycultivated a really supportive
group of friends, some of who doalso deal with chronic pain and
others who are justcompassionate people and they
understand and they know thatI'm not canceling because I want
to you know whatnot butdefinitely there's guilt that
(09:18):
goes along with that and thatguilt can feed into the
struggles.
So it's a multi-layered thingfor sure into the struggles.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
So it's a it's a multi-layered thing, for sure it
is multi-layered.
I think that sometimes theheaviest part that we carry is
the guilt of saying I can't andwe were just talking about it
last week, of the I can't butbeing able to say I can't for
reasons that care for you sothat you can later.
But the guilt part, it's thesilent echo that lives rent free
(09:45):
in your mind but I just toldso-and-so no.
And what if they think this?
Because I can't, or if I say noagain this time, they'll stop
inviting me places because theyautomatically assume that my
answer is no.
But then you carry guilt forsaying yes when you know that
you should have said no, and Ithink that's the misconception.
(10:07):
People don't see that part thatyou carry guilt for saying yes,
yes to showing up for someonethat wasn't you, when you knew
that you didn't feel well.
What are some of your keycoping mechanisms?
How do you?
Speaker 3 (10:21):
talk yourself down.
I have developed a goodinternal introspective tools in
regards to that, namely justself-compassion.
Right, I treat myself as if Iwould treat a girlfriend or
anybody, or a patient.
If I have a patient come in andthey're crying because they
can't go to work or whatever itis, I pat them on the shoulder
and I'm going to say you aredoing everything you can.
(10:43):
I just very much mother myself.
That really eases it.
Um and and uh.
Speaking to my inner child, tolike the inner child who was
told like you're not doingenough or you're you are too
much, or all the, all the thingsthat we, you know that we have
deep-seated speaking to that,because it's that part of you
that often is the part of youthat is having those, those
(11:08):
conflicted feelings.
So I just just be very gentlewith myself and when I can't, my
partner does it for me.
I'm very lucky, very, verylucky, to have a very supportive
partner.
So that's kind of what I leanon.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So you talked a little bit when we talked to you
about feeling dismissed inmedical settings.
What has that experience beenlike and how have you learned to
advocate for yourself when youfeel like you're not being heard
in those spaces?
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Good question.
So I I have been dismissed withthe migraine piece.
You know, to an extent Ihaven't sought an abundance of
care from Western providersother than getting those muscle
relaxers.
At one point, because I work inthe field that I do, I've
really kind of leaned on that.
(11:55):
So the migraines just kind of.
They just kind of get likethey're brought up and then
disregarded.
Where I felt the gaslightingpiece much more is the women's
health piece experience thatI've had it's struggling with
issues where walking in a lot ofdoctors are like I literally
have never seen this before.
I have no idea.
Your only option is surgery,but I don't know who's going to
(12:18):
do that for you because it'ssuch a sensitive thing that you
are probably just going to haveto.
You either have to like dealwith some serious lifelong risks
or just deal with thecontinuing to have this issue
and that has been so painful.
So I mean I stopped seekingcare for years because I was
(12:38):
like nobody can help me.
You just end up feelingunhelpful, you just have to
suffer and it's terrible.
It's a terrible feeling.
I finally finally have found adoctor who I.
The first time I went and sawher she was like oh yeah, I saw.
I've seen that before.
I just dealt with that lastweek.
We're cool, I got a plan foryou, we're all good.
And oh my God, I cannot tellyou how amazing that was to feel
(13:03):
.
And this was only recently.
This was within the last sixmonths that I found this doctor.
So the fact that it took me Imean, I've had this particular
issue since probably 13, 14years now and finally it took me
that long to find somebody whoknows what's up.
So the dismissal is verypainful.
We'll just say that.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And it feels so good when they get what we're talking
about, even better when theystruggle with the same thing and
they can say you need to dothis, this and this.
I remember going to theemergency room one time because
a migraine had gotten so bad andmy husband was worried.
They were like, oh yeah, wedeal with this all the time.
(13:43):
I've got the perfect cocktailfor you and I was like, wow,
okay, I think I'm in good hands.
Yeah, and that's such a greatfeeling, because who wants to go
ask for help and feel you'regetting dismissed or ignored or
blown off?
No, you want the people thatget it, that see you for who you
are and have the exact advice,tips and what to do, even if
(14:07):
it's not just medication, ifit's other things too.
Give me all the things.
I want to know it all.
What are you going to do tomake me feel better?
Please bring it all Right.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
I mean it's really is traumatizing, right?
It was fully braced when I wasgoing into this doctor's
appointment, this most recentone.
He finally gets it before I hadmet her.
I was going into theappointment fully braced, to be
told can't help you.
Sorry, you know.
And after I left I I I kepttelling my boyfriend all day I
was like I keep feeling like I'mhaving like brain glitches
(14:38):
Cause like my brain didn't't,couldn't compute that somebody
could actually help me, like hadI just had to continuously
shudder and just like let mybody have that that very
visceral reaction or somaticreaction, rather, because it was
such a shock to the system andI was able to release that
trauma that I had been carrying.
You know, obviously I wasn'table to release 16 years or
(14:58):
whatever it was of trauma inthat moment, but it was just
such a physical experience, theact of being seen and finding
someone who can take care of you.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Now, what do you wish ?
That providers understoodbetter about migraines and
chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
There's just no one size fits all answer.
I feel like in Western medicinethey go headache to headache, a
migraine to migraine In a lotof cases.
In Chinese medicine it's notlike that at all.
It's all about patterns and,you know, we can kind of get to
diagnoses based on specificsymptoms that you're having,
because not all migraines lookor feel exactly the same.
And so being able todifferentiate a little bit in
(15:36):
terms of how you treat and alsobeing super mindful of how
you're communicating withpatients I've had patients come
in my office and be like I had adoctor tell me you are in such
bad health you could go to sleepand not wake up the next
morning.
So the patient didn't go to bed, didn't want to go to sleep for
(15:56):
a week because she was soscared.
These types of things.
Being super mindful of the wayyou're wording things, because
they have such an impact on theperson who's hearing them, on
the person who's coming to youfor help I think that's the
biggest thing, because chronicpain is chronic.
It often doesn't go away,unfortunately.
But care is as much thephysical piece as it is the
(16:19):
emotional piece.
I think that gets lost a lot inthe system.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You've built an impressive self-care toolkit.
Can you walk us through some ofthe things that help you the
most?
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Man, I have so many things that I do.
Anytime a migraine hits, youknow, I grab the topical creams,
the pain patches, the heatingpad, ibuprofen.
I do have a small stash ofmuscle relaxers that I just save
for when I really really needthem.
What else do I do?
I have a TENS unit.
That's been huge.
That has been really reallyhelpful.
(16:51):
Cannabis is really reallyhelpful, particularly for the
muscle pain and the nausea piece.
What else?
do I do Just stretching andgentle movement, going for a
little walk, getting a littlephysical movement in, but not
pressuring myself to go bust outa hard workout.
That's too much in thosemoments, but just something.
Being able and learning how tolisten to your body, I think is
(17:12):
such a huge piece Because, likeyou said before, when it's a new
experience you don't understandwhat's happening or how to
navigate it.
Now, 15 years later, I'm stillknocked over by it often enough,
but I can expedite theexperience and recover within a
couple hours, whereas in thepast it might have been a couple
of days.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
With the TENS unit?
Where do you place it?
To help with something likethat?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
My issues are very much.
I have just persistent knotsaround my right shoulder blade,
so I usually focus it aroundthere.
You got to be real careful withthe tensing neck.
If you put it too close to yourneck in certain ways it can
just pull your, you know, whichis just.
It kind of mimics the spasm ofa migraine, so it can have the
opposite effect.
Um, when it kind of snaps your,your neck, you know together uh
(18:00):
to your shoulder, but otherwiseuh typically do it further down
on the back, because even whenI'm having the pain up in my
neck and head, I know that theroot of it is further down and
so I can get those muscles torelax.
Everything up the chain isrelaxed.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Okay, I've never even thought to try one for a
migraine, so I've used it foreverything else, uh-huh.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
I mean, it certainly depends on where your migraines
are coming from, right, if it'snot a musculos-based one, if
it's more vasodilation, whereyou're getting too much blood to
your head all of a sudden, it'snot necessarily going to have
the same effect, but if there'sa muscle piece, it's super
helpful.
Worth a shot.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
With so many tools and strategies, how do you know
when to lean into one versusrest and do less?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
I've developed a protocol.
I know if I do the thing whereI wake up with that neck pain, I
got to do everything I can, Ithrow everything at it.
Usually it doesn't culminateuntil I actually throw up and
then I lay back down or Iusually I sit, I prop myself up
and sit with the heating padwith, with all the things that I
can't, that I can.
But then once I wake up fromthat nap, after that that's when
(19:10):
I know it's rest time.
If we take it easy today, don'tpush it prior to a migraine.
If I feel one starting to comeon, often I'll, you know, I'll
feel the ache come on in theevening, but then the actual
migraine doesn't come on untilthe mornings and in those cases
I might be getting that tensingit out, I might be getting, you
know, a Theracane out, doingsome self-massage.
(19:30):
You know, whatever it is, Ivery rarely have nothing going
on here like in terms of Iusually have a pain patch or
something because it is sochronic.
But knowing when to rest andknowing when to push it is
definitely just.
It's a matter of experience andlearning how to reach your body
and knowing, like you know, howyour specific pain experience
(19:52):
progresses once it begins.
Speaker 4 (19:54):
Can you tell us a little bit about the Audacious
Patient?
What inspired you to create it?
What's the mission behind it?
What's it all about?
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
I started the audacious patient.
Honestly, it came out of rage.
It came out of seeing all ofthe injustices in the system,
all of the cracks that peoplefall through, all of the debt
that people become saddled with,and wanting better for people,
for everyone as well as myself,you know.
(20:24):
And making it accessible andmaking it almost fun, right,
like this stuff is so boring,it's so overwhelming, it's
daunting, it's gross, it's notsexy, and so if I can make it
absorbable, digestible forpeople, because I just know for
myself, I didn't know any ofthis stuff until I got into my
30s.
I didn't have health insurance,I didn't go to the doctor, I
(20:47):
didn't know how to find doctors,I didn't know anything.
It's because it's sointentionally confusing and
daunting.
And now that I'm older and I'vebeen on both sides of it for
long enough now and seen so muchnot go right for people, I want
to do what I can to help guidepeople to get the care that they
(21:08):
need and deserve, because thesystem is so screwed up and we
deserve better.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
I agree, I agree.
I love that you have a voiceand I love that that voice is
roaring, that you want to changeit for the community Because,
seriously, it's kind of a lot ofshenanigans going on.
How does shifting away fromhands-on patient care, how does
that new chapter feel for you?
So I'm a nurse by trade and Iwent more holistic once my
(21:39):
chronic illness journey startedto unfold.
So I'm more on the holisticside, doing what would say it
started with rage for me as well.
I started to hit thatgaslighting circle and I was
like wait a minute, I'm a wholepractitioner.
I know that you're lying to meand so and I've sat in rooms
while you lie to other patients,while I understood that real
(21:59):
things were happening to them.
What does that shift feel likefor you?
Is it scary and empowering, ornot so much scary anymore?
But you're like heck, yeah,let's do this because I'm a
badass Like where are you inthat transition?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
That's definitely got a mixed answer as well.
You know, I would say it's bothscary and empowering and, to
use your words, more empoweringthan scary at this point.
But definitely, kind of comingout of the treatment room and
kind of belting this stuff outloud, there is an intimidation
piece putting yourself out intothe world.
What if everybody thinks it'sstupid or hates it or whatever,
(22:36):
which I know that's not going tohappen, right, there's just
that little voice sometimes thatyou, you got to kind of contend
with.
So there is a bit of that, butfor the most part I just feel so
Ignited, right, like just somotivated to help ignite other
people.
Yeah, I don't want people to bespecifically avoiding getting
(22:56):
care because they don't know how, or they're scared or they're
you know they can't afford it,or whatever getting care because
they don't know how, or they'rescared or they're you know they
can't afford it, or whatever.
And so it feels like I can.
I'm very excited about theability to reach and help more
people than I can just withone-on-one patient care.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
It's powerful it gives you the tinglys in a good
way Indeed so when you're notmanaging migraines or creating
content, where do you find yourjoy?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
hazel stories are encouraged that is on my note.
Hazel definitely is a bigstress reliever for me.
She's very cuddly, she's verykissy, she's silly.
Even though she's 15, she still, like, runs up and down the
stairs screaming opera songs,basically just meowing away, but
she also snuggles up and sleepsand and and whatnot.
(23:45):
Um, so she definitely can helpkind of bring me back down to
earth, calm me down and make melaugh like rest of the gamut,
right, um, otherwise, you know II love getting outside when I
can and spending time withfriends.
Uh, like you said in the intro,like game nights and bonfires
and beach days.
I love floating in a lake and Ialso like the introverted, like
(24:07):
reading my books, and you knowI like a good balance of because
I am, I would say, more on theintrovert side of things.
So I do definitely like my solostuff, but I love my friends, I
love the people in my life, soI love party games and art
nights and all that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
So that those are the things that fill your cup in
between the bad days.
So I have to know more aboutthese theme parties you do, and
how does that fill your cup?
I gotta know more details onthat.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, I love a theme party.
My friends and I do.
We started doing them a lotduring covid, where you know we
just be like let's get in theyard and like have a little tiki
thing or like, um, you know,whatever we, whatever little way
, we could find joy andsilliness in a very hard time,
right, yeah, so now that life'spicked back up again they're
(25:00):
happening a little lessfrequently, but they still do,
and it's kind of you know who'sever birthday it is, picks the
theme or whatnot.
We've done glow-in-the-darkparties.
We've done country westernthemes.
We've done, like I said, tikiparties.
Which one was your favorite?
I think that's a tough one.
(25:21):
I would say the theglow-in-the-dark neon one was
pretty fun.
We had to art.
My friend's whole backyard litup with rope lights and and and
strobe lights and party lightsand black light like everything.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
So that would fill my cup too.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
I can see why you get your, your cup filled in.
I was like I want to glow morethan anyone else has ever glowed
before, so people just loadedme all up.
However, I did feel guilty thenext day with all the trash that
had accumulated, so I won't bedoing that again.
That's all one time, single use.
So I didn't like that piece,but the night of it was very,
(25:59):
very fun.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
What's your favorite game?
Party game.
I didn't like that piece, butthe night of.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
It was very, very fun .
What's your favorite game?
Party game.
You know, there's this verysilly one, it doesn't, I don't
know.
There's probably a name for it,but it's basically, I call it a
visual telephone.
So you have, everybody has astack of pages for as many
people are in the circle, and onthe first page everybody just
writes like a phrase, and it canbe anything, and the goal is
(26:24):
you pass it to the next personand they will draw whatever you
wrote, and then the next thatperson will pass it and they
have to write what they thinkyou just threw, and so on and so
forth.
So it comes back to you and itit just never ceases to just
make you laugh till you cry.
You love it everybody, and Ialready love it.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
It's so funny Because the things people would be
drawing that they thought that Isaid.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
I already love it.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's hilarious.
Have you ever been to or had amurder mystery party?
I?
Speaker 3 (26:54):
haven't.
I did get invited to one acouple years ago and I ended up
having COVID so I wasn't able togo, but I have heard they're
really fun.
It feels a little intimidatingto me, depending on how involved
it is.
Like if I have to be a wholecharacter, that feels a little
bit involved for me, but itdepends on the people I'm with
and how involved it is.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Well, I can give you all the details.
My sister-in-law loves to dothemed parties as well.
She even did like a wholesurvivor themed party in her
backyard one time, but then itprogressed into murder mysteries
.
I've attended a few there, so Itend to do I'm crazy, so I do
(27:42):
the very involved characters.
I was a waitress one time.
I had to walk around and makesure everybody had their drinks,
but I also had to be very nosyand ask a lot of weird questions
.
And then we had one where thiswas probably my favorite.
It was trailer park tragedy,and so the trashier the better,
(28:02):
we all had to dress just astrashy as we could and I got the
lovely part of dying.
So that was super fun andtragic, uh-huh, yeah.
So I definitely that's fun totry it.
You can actually there's awebsite and you can decide.
You know how many people you'regoing to have, how big the
(28:24):
group is, and then each personcan say like how involved they
want to be cool okay, so, soit's flexible.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
Okay, I like that.
It's very flexible, which isgreat.
Look into that, yeah.
Yeah, I want to do an 80s one.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, that sounds fun Okay anyway, what advice would
you give to someone newlydiagnosed and feeling
overwhelmed by chronic pain?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
I guess, I would tell them that they don't have to
know everything right now andit's okay to be gentle with
yourself and don't push yourselftoo hard.
I feel we're just so trapped inthis culture of productivity is
king and if you're not busy,then you're worthy of whatever,
and that's just not the case.
(29:09):
It's okay if you don't feelgood and you need to rest.
I think mostly I would justspeak to compassion regarding
those cases self-compassion.
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Absolutely.
And for those fellowpractitioners who also struggle
with chronic illness, whatmessage would you like to share
with them?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
But also you need to have self-compassion and you are
human and it's.
It's okay if you also justcan't make it in one day or if
you're just not on all cylindersand maybe you save your patient
notes for the next day becauseyou just can't Do what you can,
and trust that when you feelbetter you'll be able to do more
(29:49):
.
Just patience, patience withyourself.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
The reminders that the importance of being
extremely gentle with yourself.
The world is rough enough.
They're just they're beating usup.
You know doctors were giving usthe business and not always
actively listening, and so Ilove that, the gentle reminders
to be gentle with yourself andpatient while you're being
gentle.
I can't believe that we chattedyour ear off and we haven't
(30:17):
asked you yet.
How can our listeners connectwith you and support?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
your work with the audacious patient.
Yeah, certainly, finding me onInstagram at the audacious
patient is a way to keep up withme on a daily, weekly basis.
Otherwise, my website haseverything
theaudaciouspatientcom.
I've got a small library offreebie resources.
You need scripts for how tonegotiate a medical bill or
(30:44):
advocating with doctors orcreating a health history
template, so it's easier whenyou do go into a new
practitioner for the first timedifferent sorts of things.
I also have a small shop withsome low cost resources as well
digital downloads, but those areTikTok.
I'm also on TikTok, but, yeah,social media and my website are
(31:07):
the best places.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
And finally, what does being a spony sister mean
to you?
Speaker 3 (31:13):
It means that you, you understand, you understand
each other.
You are able to hold quietspace or people who suffer the
same thing as you, or their,their own version of of chronic
pain or illness, like then, ifit's different than yours, um,
so I guess it's, it's asolidarity and just a quiet
knowing right, like every.
(31:35):
This world is so loud and we,we just don't have to be loud,
but we just have to be there foreach other.
Speaker 4 (31:40):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
That was so peaceful yeah.
I really like to balance the my, my, my audacious patient brand
is very kind of loud and kindof in your face and whatnot.
I kind of jokingly call myselflike the sacred punk auntie.
I have this loud, rage filledkind of voice, but it also is
backed up by a lot of compassionand embodiedness and empathy.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
It's balance.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
I like to, I like to, yeah, lead with both of those
things.
Speaker 4 (32:07):
Yeah, I love it.
I'm here for the balance.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Well, thank you so much for joining us today.
Absolutely Thank you for havingme Right.
Well, until next time, don'tforget your spoon.
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