August 25, 2025 • 42 mins
What if you could transform your autoimmune health through nutrition and lifestyle changes? That's precisely what Tanya Freirich, The Lupus Dietitian, has done for herself and thousands of clients over her 15-year career.
This illuminating conversation takes you deep into the intersection of nutrition and autoimmune disease management with someone who uniquely understands both sides. Tanya brings not only her professional expertise as a registered dietitian with advanced credentials but also her lived experience of navigating multiple autoimmune conditions, including Hashimoto's thyroiditis, ITP, and lupus, for over 11 years.
We explore how inflammation manifests in the body—sometimes surprisingly through weight gain and fluid retention—and practical ways to address it through diet and lifestyle modifications. Tanya shares powerful insights about becoming the expert in your own body, tracking your responses to foods, and developing a personalized approach to wellness that honors your unique needs and circumstances.
Perhaps most valuably, Tanya offers hope through her guiding principle of "progress, not perfection," acknowledging that the journey with autoimmune disease is like "walking a mile with a weighted vest." Her compassionate, realistic approach makes healthy changes accessible to everyone, regardless of budget or cultural background. She breaks down common barriers to wellness with practical solutions for eating nutritiously on a budget, creating optimal sleep environments, and making sustainable lifestyle shifts.
Whether you're living with an autoimmune condition or supporting someone who is, this episode delivers practical wisdom, genuine encouragement, and a roadmap for transforming health challenges into opportunities for deeper healing and self-discovery. Ready to take the first step toward better health? This conversation is your starting point.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of my Spoonie
Sisters, and I'm your host,grace Fleejen.
Today.
I am so thrilled about this one.
I am here to welcome someonewho brings expertise, empathy
and lived experience to theworld of autoimmune wellness.
This is Tanya Freerich.
She is an SRDN, cdces I don'tknow what all these mean, but
(00:23):
you can tell me so.
She's better known as the lupusdietitian.
With more than 15 yearsexperience in the nutrition
field, tanya has guidedthousands toward healing through
nutrition.
What makes her work trulyinspiring is that she's not just
a dietitian.
She's also navigated lupusherself for over 11 years and
(00:44):
transformed her own health byoverhauling her diet and her
lifestyle, eventuallyeliminating flares altogether,
which isn't that the goal right?
She brings a compassionatewhole body and inclusive
approach, blending diet,self-care, stress, sleep,
movement, joy and honoring eachperson's unique background.
(01:04):
I already know this episode isgoing to be full of hope,
practical wisdom andencouragement for all of us on
our Spoonie journeys.
So hello, tanya.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
How are you today?
I am so good.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to chat with you.
Obviously, we chat otherwise,but it's so wonderful to be able
to answer your questions andget the word out about how
wellness, diet, lifestyle allcan make a huge difference in
how people feel.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Absolutely, and before we dive in.
Okay, so I read out all yourcredentials and they're wasted
on me because I have no ideawhat they mean.
But can you tell the listeningcommunity what all of that means
?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes for sure.
So a lot of people get veryconfused between the term
nutritionist and registereddietitian and not many people
know the difference unless youare a registered dietitian.
So a nutritionist unfortunatelydoesn't really have a lot of
rules of who can say thatthey're a nutritionist, so there
are a lot of people thatperhaps actually don't have much
(02:01):
behind that name.
Now a registered dietitian isvery regulated.
So my behind my name, the MSmeans I have a master's in
science.
So I went after my undergraduateto do more schooling in
nutrition and so I got amaster's degree.
Then my RDN means that I had totake a test.
I had to do a year longdietetic internship kind of like
(02:23):
medical school, but for adietitian and then I have to
submit for licensure.
Continuing education prove thatI'm still not only doing a good
job but also staying up to date.
And then during my career as adietitian I also really enjoyed
helping people with diabetes andwent for additional
credentialing.
(02:43):
It's certified diabetes careand education specialist.
So I really focus on peoplewith autoimmune disease.
But diabetes is so prevalent Igot so many questions about it
over the years that I reallywanted to be able to provide
that information as well.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Wow, okay.
So with all of this educationbackground, who not better to
talk to than you?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Seriously, I love learning, I love staying up to
date, seeing all the newresearch, because if it's going
to be helpful, hey, why not.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, and we got to meet in person a few months ago
when we went to an event withthe Rheumatology Research
Foundation.
And I'll tell you, it was likeinstantly when all of us got
together and sat down, it waslike we had all known each other
forever.
We had so much fun with all ourshenanigans and it was such a
blast and getting to know youand and hearing about your
(03:35):
background in your life it waswonderful, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
it is amazing how much just having a shared
experience of an autoimmunedisease just fast forwards a
friendship we had so much incommon and there were so many
moments that felt so validating.
When you hear it from someoneelse, oh yeah, I've had that
same experience.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So, before we get diving into the questions,
there's actually a couple ofquestions I want to ask you
before I forget.
So what's next for you the restof 2025 and for 2026?
Are you planning to be at ACR?
Do you have any big thingscoming up?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, definitely.
So there's an autoimmunitysummit that I am doing in Dobbs
Ferry, new York, in September,so that's September 12th.
I am also going to ACR inNovember and the week of
September 15th I have mythree-month group program called
the Lupus Breakthrough that Iwill be running.
So this program is a fantasticway for me to be able to help
(04:28):
people with lupus change theirdiet.
It's a very structured program.
Just as I said that I loveeducation, I also really love
being able to educate as manypeople as possible on the
benefits of the diet andlifestyle changes for their
lupus symptoms, and so I'vecreated kind of like a class, a
curriculum, where people everyweek get a module, but we have
(04:50):
our group calls.
I add the one-on-one and a lotof accountability and support to
make sure that people have itpersonalized to their life but
that we're all getting the bestinformation so we can advocate
for ourselves, so that we canfeel knowledgeable in our own
diagnosis so we can advocate forourselves, so that we can feel
knowledgeable in our owndiagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Wow, exciting, okay.
Well, we need to make surepeople know all about this, and
so I'll try to include as muchas I can in the show notes.
But let's get started.
All about you.
Sure, can you share a littlebit of your personal journey?
What led you to your lupusdiagnosis and how did that
moment change your relationshipwith food and self-care, or did
that kind of take time?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, definitely.
So I'll start with my story.
So my story with autoimmunedisease started a very long time
ago.
In my early teens I was firstdiagnosed with Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, so basically myimmune system was attacking my
thyroid.
Also in my teens I got anotherautoimmune diagnosis ITP, so
idiopathic thrombocytopenia.
That means that my plateletswere really low.
(05:51):
Yes, I've also had my immunesystem attack my liver.
I have also had a lot of otherautoimmune kind of flare-ups and
a new diagnosis throughout myteens and 20s.
Now lupus was my last diagnosis.
It was in my late 20s and atthat point I had already been
working as a dietician.
So I felt as though, ok, all ofthese autoimmune things, I've
(06:15):
got to do something about it.
But at the point that I wasdiagnosed with lupus I was
having a lot of joint pain, alot of flares, losing hair.
My labs were really kind of adisaster and I had been working
out five days a week,socializing with my friends,
working as a dietician in ahospital with very long hours
and really been busy and notfelt impeded by my autoimmune
(06:39):
diagnoses.
I felt, okay, they'recontrolled, no big deal, I can
live my life and I was feelinggreat.
But then the lupus diagnosisand those flares that led.
They were kind of all a clusterthat really changed from a very
active life to kind of like ascreeching halt.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, and as you're talking about all this, I'm
going OK once again.
Autoimmune diseases likefriends, you can't have just one
.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, no, yes, they often beget more and more.
Unfortunately, when your immunesystem is so activated, I feel
like it's kind of like a lavafield, where the lava just like
spurts out over here and thenspurts out over here.
It's like the inflammation justcan't be kept down, so it's
just coming out in differentways.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's like, once it's triggered, it's like a water
bottle that gets punctured amillion times.
It's going to find its way toget out somehow.
Yeah, definitely, yeah, okay.
So getting started withdiagnoses at such a young age,
how did that affect friendshipsand activities and all that kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Sure, that's a great question.
So I will say it was probablythe reason why I decided to be a
registered dietitian, because Ilearned very young when I eat a
little bit healthier I feelbetter, because certainly for my
thyroid, that affected myenergy.
I had been in and out of thehospital quite a lot throughout
my teens and twenties, sometimesin the hospital for a month at
(08:04):
a time while they were trying tofigure out what was wrong with
me.
So I integrally knew okay, Ihave to take care of myself,
otherwise things go very badlyvery quickly.
And I also had noticed dietmakes a difference in how I feel
.
So it definitely was somethingthat turned me down the path of
wellness because I could see howquickly that can kind of fall
(08:26):
apart.
Now, in terms of my friendshipsday to day, honestly I did not
want to make that the integralpart of my identity, of
conversations with people, so Iwould mention it as a as needed
basis.
Obviously I had to tell my highschool why I disappeared for a
month, but beyond that I reallyto tell my high school why I
disappeared for a month, butbeyond that I really did not
(08:47):
want to talk.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't blame you because, especially at that age,
you have to worry what yourfriends are thinking.
Are they thinking you're anattention seeker, that you're
making things up?
Because that's what teenagerssometimes do, that's what kids
do.
They accuse, they makeassumptions because they don't
get it Right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So I did not look for understanding with other
teenagers, I just focused onwell, I've got to keep my grades
up.
I played tennis at that pointin high school and middle school
, so I just wanted to live mylife.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, let's let's get through this.
Let's live my life the best Ican.
Let's survive it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Definitely because I realized so early wow, food can
be something that is a tool thatcan be helpful.
I am 100% a foodie.
I love trying new things,trying new restaurants, trying
new cuisines, so I also verymuch enjoy food.
With my clients and with myself, I always say there is no such
(09:46):
thing as being perfect.
Please don't cut out likeextreme food groups or make
yourself into like a bit toocontrolling with your food, like
over restriction, usuallycauses kind of a pendulum swing
to forget it.
This is too hard, I don't wantto do it anymore.
So my goal for myself and everyclient I work with is let's
(10:07):
make manageable changes that youcan maintain long term, because
food can be a tool for you tohelp you help yourself feel
better.
But we don't want it to be kindof tiptoe over to I have to
control every single bite that Itake, because that's not great
for our mental health either.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I agree.
From my personal experiencethat is hard to have the correct
mindset when saying I need tolose some weight or I just need
to be eating better.
In general, I pick the samefoods for breakfast, lunch and
dinner and that's all I'm goingto eat.
I get overwhelmed and I think,oh well, I shouldn't eat this
and I shouldn't eat this, andthen I feel like I'm stopping
with eating altogether, and thatis even worse.
(10:45):
And so what kind of advicewould you give to a client
that's like I'm afraid to eat?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, and I find that a lot of clients that's when
they find me when they are sofrustrated, so overwhelmed
because there's so pardon,there's so much information out
there.
If you look on the internet,literally you will find a
million things that say, oh,this is good for lupus, this is
good for lupus or whatever theautoimmune disease is.
Some of it's good information,some of it is very not helpful
(11:15):
information and not accurate.
So people get so frustratedtrying to follow a million
different diets that they sayforget it.
I just what you said, forget it, I'm just not going to eat.
And that obviously is not theanswer.
We need food and fuel to bewell, nourished and to feel well
and reduce our inflammation.
So that's where my guidancecomes in of OK, here is all the
research.
This is backing what Irecommend and then giving all
(11:38):
this information about youpersonally.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Here's the way that you can implement it in your to
see the best result Absolutely,and I'm sure that genetics have
a lot to play with all that too,because, you know, some people
are just naturally send peopleit doesn't matter what they eat.
And then there's some peoplewhere they might have to be more
cautious, because they evenlook at something and they put
on some weight.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, you know, a lot of people keep on extra weight
because of the inflammation.
Just like you get a bug bite,you notice how it gets swollen
and inflamed.
That's kind of like your wholebody.
When you're very inflamed andso often that leads to weight
gain, even if you're notchanging anything about what
you're eating.
And when we reduce theinflammation, people notice
(12:19):
sometimes that they're eatingmore and extra weight that they
had been carrying that wasn'tnormal for them comes down.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I'm glad you brought that up, because that's actually
something that I've beenpersonally struggling with this
entire summer, and we had myson's wedding last week, thank
you.
And one of the things my momdid when she first saw me was
she started feeling my arms andmy hands and then she was like
looking at my feet, because myfeet have all summer long feet
and ankles just keep swelling up.
(12:46):
I'm having edema issues andinflammation is skyrocketed
right now, and they're trying toget everything under control.
Yeah, great, but I don't thinkwe talk enough about how your
scale is going to start going up, and I'm just looking at myself
and I feel like I can see fluideverywhere in my body.
I just I feel like I've, andtheir concern is, of course,
(13:25):
preventing organ damage, keepingus alive as well.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And sometimes they take in the information, but
aren't so informative, of ohyeah, this can be an indicator
of your inflammation.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, and what I did find out from my rheumatologist
is the anti-inflammatoryprescription that they had me on
is known to cause edema, andshe told me, whenever you're
flaring, I want you to take it,because I didn't want to take it
every day.
I'm not that kind of person whowants to live that way.
We have to take enough pills,right, and so I would just take
it as needed.
(13:56):
We were about to go to Hawaii.
I was starting to flare, I wastaking it twice a day and, boom,
it was like I suddenly had, ontop of all the inflammation, all
this edema now, and so then,when I saw her, she said, okay,
this one's known for that, let'stake you off of it.
We're going to try you onanother one, okay, and I'm
seeing some of it come down, butit's still there and it's just
(14:18):
frustrating.
But we need to talk about itmore.
These are things that happen.
Is there, food-wise, anythingthat you would recommend to
somebody going through that?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean edema in particular.
So the things that we can avoidthat will help it not become
worse.
Definitely be careful with yoursalt intake, yeah, so for
everyone out there, salt sodiumcan be very high in certain,
let's say, sauces, processedfoods like TV dinners, sauces
being something like hot sauces,soy sauce those can be very,
(14:51):
very high sodium, Unfortunately,like convenience foods.
So anything that's veryunprocessed usually doesn't have
very much sodium at all.
But when you get into boxedfoods, canned foods, frozen
foods unless it's just likesomething as simple as oh, it's
a bag of frozen broccoli andthey haven't added any sauces
then the sodium kind of adds uppretty quickly.
(15:12):
So being careful with sodium isa really great idea because
that makes us retain more water,Hydrating yourself.
I know that feels like, but I'malready carrying all this water.
Why would I drink more?
But it does help Well.
Extra water, yes, so it feelsstrange perhaps for somebody,
but I promise staying extrahydrated can help your body
(15:35):
reduce some of that edema.
If you can move gently, so whenyou are doing things that are
physical activity, good movementthat's not hurting your joints,
that helps not only yourcirculation but also your
lymphatic fluids.
Just move around in your body,which can also help with edema.
Some people benefit justcomfort-wise, from using things
(15:56):
like compression socks so thatthey don't feel as though it's
actually causing pain, andlifting your legs up can help
some of that fluid come backdown.
So there's a lot of things todo.
In terms of food, Going to theunprocessed things is the best,
because then you're also gettingthose other electrolytes that
help keep our water balance inthe right place, like potassium
(16:18):
and magnesium.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Oh, such good points.
Such good points.
And to listeners don't getdisheartened, because even if
you're doing all the rightthings, sometimes it's still
happening, and I'm proof of that.
And so keep trying, don't giveup.
Hopefully it's going to getback under control eventually.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, and please bring it up to your doctor too,
just as you did of like hey, I'mtrying this medication, but
these side effects are notworking for me and there may be
another approach.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And keep in mind.
You know, during the warmermonths sometimes we swell more,
sometimes there's more fluid.
It's just part of it.
You know we're more active andmaybe we're doing activities
we're not used to doing and sobodies might get angry and
that's just.
It's not okay.
I was about to say it's okay.
It's not okay, but it issomething we just have to manage
the best that we can.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And I think that's where people get really
frustrated, because we want ourbodies to be really predictable,
and that's certainly how I tryto help my clients of hey, if
you do X, y and Z that we talkedabout, that we already know
helps you, then you do get alittle bit more of that
predictability.
But at the end of the day, weare not robots.
(17:25):
We have hormones, seasonschange.
We have hormones, seasonschange, schedules change, your
food changes.
There's so many differentfactors, unfortunately, that
while it may seem frustrating,that's unpredictable.
If you are monitoring andpaying attention, you each
change as a learning opportunityof oh, that's how my body
reacts to this and eventuallyyou do get to the place where
(17:50):
you can learn enough about howyour body functions that you can
kind of get the hang of itAbsolutely Now.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
As a dietician living with lupus, what especially do
you find surprising or evenchallenging about applying what
you already know with your ownbody.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I guess surprising was when I was first diagnosed.
I was already a registereddietitian and I thought I'm
eating pretty healthy butclearly it's not working because
I'm having all these flares andI just got diagnosed with
something new.
So then I realized, okay, well,clearly generally healthy is
just not cutting it for me.
So I'm going to put all myfocus on what is specifically
(18:28):
healthy for lupus, what researchexists that's specific to this
autoimmune corner of thenutrition world.
And so that was a littlesurprising at the beginning, but
I feel like happy that I knowmy body really well.
I have figured out thosechanges that really make a big
difference.
I think sometimes people feelreally at war with their body
(18:52):
because of the unpredictability,Like I did all the right things
, why am I flaring?
And so that's another place Ireally help my clients of like,
okay, let's figure out truly theright things for you so that
you can be aligned with yourbody, that you're supporting the
reduction of the inflammationand really kind of working
together, because you only haveone.
(19:13):
We don't get to get anotherbody, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So your method is deeply holistic.
So you weave together diet,sleep, stress, movement all the
really important things, alongwith joy and your
self-relationship.
Can you walk us through how yousupport someone in addressing
all of these layers?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yes, totally Well, it's bit by bit, so we can't
address everything all at onceExactly.
Usually with everyone that Iwork with and it depends on the
person too.
So I will say the vast majorityof the people we do diet first,
because so many people noticesuch an uptick in their energy
and a reduction in joint pain,other symptoms, when we change
(19:55):
the diet.
So that's the first thing thatwe address because it buys us
more spoons, more energy, moremotivation, more capability,
less brain fog to implement theother things.
But I will say, for some people, less brain fog to implement
the other things.
But I will say, for some people, maybe one of those the other
(20:16):
components of like a holisticbody change is so out of whack
that we have to address thatfirst.
But usually it's diet.
And then we add in somethinglike gentle movement, walking,
that exercise component, becauseit also improves the quality of
our sleep so much, but verygently and very piecemeal.
With the increasing exerciseI'm sure that you felt this way
and heard it from so many otherpeople Sometimes people get
(20:37):
really gung-ho.
Oh my gosh, I feel so muchbetter.
I'm going to go on a 10-milehike.
I'm going to go back to thatclass that, like CrossFit class
that I haven't been, yes, and sowe taper it up, not just all in
.
Then, of course, it dependsagain on the person.
Everyone's different, and so Ipersonalize the approach,
because some people really needto think about their environment
(20:59):
first.
Some people really need to workon boundaries, and that can be
at the beginning too, of hey, wehave to say no to some of these
demands so that you have thetime for yourself.
So it's a lot of things.
I try as best as I can to meetpeople where they are, because
the more personalized it is totheir journey, the better
(21:20):
success they're going to have.
So there's not a formula thatworks for everyone and that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How do you approach healthy sleep?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
hygiene.
There's a lot of suggestionsthat I have.
I'm happy to go into at leastthe first couple.
So one your room, well, yourhabits before bed.
So we should not be scrolling onsocial media.
It is especially something likeTikTok can go from a happy,
funny video to something reallyreally heavy, dark, a piece of
(21:51):
news that you just weren'tprepared for.
So it is too much of anemotional roller coaster.
Also, the blue light from ourphones tell our body hey, wake
up, stay awake, it's the middleof the day, you need to be alert
, and all of that is adding tokind of a fight or flight
response that we don't needbefore bed.
So definitely social media, tv,any sort of electronics.
(22:12):
We want to turn off a goodamount of time before bedtime.
If people aren't into reading abook, maybe just do something
quiet like take a shower, listento some nice music journal.
I mean, we can go as far intomeditation and deep breathing as
people want to, but itdefinitely needs to be
activities that help things godown in terms of like okay, I
(22:36):
can relax, my nervous system cantake a break, I'm not on high
alert.
The other things are setting upyour sleep environment.
So we want it to be dark and tobe cool.
Of course we want it to becomfortable.
So we want it to be dark and tobe cool.
Of course we want it to becomfortable.
This one's really hard forpeople, but sometimes we got to
get the pets out of the bedroom.
They can be really disturbingand a lot of people are like no,
don't make me lock out my kittyor my doggy.
(23:00):
But then they're also waking upat two in the morning, three in
the morning, four in themorning with the dog on their
face or the cat going like thisat their feet, and so you're
missing out on really deep,quality sleep and your pet will
still love you so very much.
They might just need to sleepsomewhere else in the house.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Absolutely, and sometimes they don't actually
want to sleep with you anyway.
I have two cats and sometimesthey insist on being with us,
but they, you know, they'reolder.
And so one likes to lay on apillow behind my head so that
she can drape her paws on myshoulder.
Doesn't bother me, doesn't wakeme up, it's very odd.
And then the other cat sleepswith pillows around her.
(23:39):
She's like in this circle inbetween my husband and I, by the
pillows, and she just sleepsthere.
The only disturbing thing is ifthey get up to use the cat,
which you know animals do.
But I think you know, if youhave an elderly cat, that's just
going to sleep, that's onething.
But if you have a dog, thatneeds to get up and go out, if
you have a cat, that a kitten,that's hyper.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah.
They're going to be playingwith all the things in your room
, come on and it's totally fine,seriously, if the pet isn't
disturbing you.
But if you are wakingfrequently, that's when it's not
helpful.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's time to go.
Yeah, they need their own space, maybe their own room.
So you are also.
You emphasize that you are theexpert in your body.
So how do you help clientslearn to listen, to trust their
own lived experience, especiallywhen it may go against popular
advice?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, this is so important.
So how I help my clients is one.
We have food and mood andsymptom journals.
I don't insist that everyonefill it out every bite of their
day or every moment of their day, but those check-ins and some
people love it and some peopleuse it kind of okay, I'm going
to do three days at a time andjust really focus in on my body.
But those are a greatopportunity to check in how do I
feel after this meal, what's myenergy been looking like?
(24:57):
What's my joint pain beenlooking like?
And again, some people do itfor every day and they feel like
it's such a great practice tobe in tune with their body.
And some people want to do okay,let's say, the first month, I'm
going to do it.
Three days A month from now,I'm going to do it three days A
month from now.
Again, I'll do it another threedays.
But it's amazing to see thedata points of yeah, I was a
(25:19):
nine out of 10 in my joint painand now I'm at a five out of 10.
And now I'm at a one out of 10.
And having that data point,it's really hard to remember
these things like well, my jointpain is a lot better, but to
note when it happened and inresponse to what changes really
helps you connect with your bodyand honestly let's be, let's
(25:39):
all kind of reflect on a journeywith autoimmune, sometimes just
to get through the day becauseof joint pain or fatigue, we
kind of distance ourselves andjust say I can't deal with the
joint pain right now.
I have to go to work, I have topick up my kids, whatever it may
be.
So sometimes, as a protectivehabit, we've set aside checking
(26:03):
in our body.
So I do want people toreconnect, to trust in their
expertise because I can't feelwhat's going on in their body.
So I do want people toreconnect, to trust in their
expertise because I can't feelwhat's going on in their body.
And if you hate the time tosettle in, you can become the
expert.
Everyone is the expert.
It's just how much they've beentuning in or not.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, All right Now we're going to shift a little
bit.
Okay, eliminating your ownflares is such a triumph.
What were the first practicalshifts that you made in your
diet or lifestyle that reallymade you feel like you?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
were seeing relief.
Yeah, definitely.
So diet was one big thing.
I tried a lot of things.
Another thing that was reallybig for me was understanding
okay, rest has to take apriority.
I need to go to bed earlier, Ineed to make sure that I'm
getting in good quality sleepand to be more gentle with my
exercise especially.
(26:54):
I had just never had lupusflares before.
I'd had flares of otherautoimmune diseases, and that
was a different approach.
I had to take in more rest,more relaxation and then more
autoimmune anti-inflammatoryfoods for that autoimmune flare.
So it was different, despiteliving with other autoimmune
(27:16):
diseases for years and yearsbefore that?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Did you start to notice what triggers your?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
inflammation?
Yeah, definitely, which wasagain kind of building that
toolkit of okay, this is how myfantastic, amazing, sometimes
confusing body works.
And now, because I've helped somany other people, I can kind
of have a collection of well youpresent with these sorts of
symptoms.
This is what your labs looklike.
This is the pathway that'sprobably going to help you the
(27:43):
most, which is really cool.
What are your personal biggesttriggers?
I mean, this one actuallyapplies to a lot of people.
If I get sick like an infectionor my body's already fighting
something else, that's when Iknow, okay, it's time to go into
like R&R mode of.
I need to prioritize rest, Ineed to prioritize
(28:06):
anti-inflammatory foods.
We're going to take a break onexercise.
My goals for those other partsof my life, like maybe strength
training or getting in morecardio, they just have to be on
pause and that's okay, like I amstill doing a fantastic job of
being healthy by kind of turningdown the volume knob on all of
(28:27):
those activities.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And it doesn't mean you're not going to go back to
doing them again Of course not.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Never stop as a pause .
Yes, yes, and I'm going to feelso much better, so much faster
if I just stop.
Stop, let your body recover andthen I can get back to the
other things.
I think that's a really toughthing for so many people.
Is the acceptance unfortunate?
Acceptance that, with any sortof chronic disease, means that
(28:55):
we again are not robots.
We cannot just push through,push through, push through, push
through it.
Just it doesn't work.
Our bodies aren't like that.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
We have a limit and I think we talked about this a
few months ago when we were inperson.
But I used to be an Apple watchwearer forever and all of a
sudden, one day my husband,before Christmas, was like you
know, I've been reading up onthese aura rings and they're
supposed to be more accurate.
I think I talked with you aboutit, right?
I think we were passing ourrings around because a few of us
had them.
(29:22):
And one thing that I love aboutit and I tell people this all
the time, no-transcript, but Ilove it, and here's why the
biggest reason I recommend it topeople is in the app.
It takes and correlates all ofmy stuff together and it's
(29:46):
tracking your activity, yoursleep, all of it.
It pops up and tells me when I'mgetting run down and that I
need to slow down.
It'll even say you might notwant to work out today Some
things.
How does it phrase it?
It says something is affectingmy body at that moment and
making me weaker.
It's better phrasing than whatI'm saying, but that's basically
(30:06):
what it's saying to me, andI'll tell you.
What I've noticed is, everytime this pops up on my app, I'm
about to get sick with somekind of infection or I'm about
to flare, or both.
I kid you, not every time itpops up.
I've gotten tonsillitis or asinus infection or something
like that, every single time,and so I love that thing.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, well, that's great.
And now perhaps also it'sgiving you the awareness of oh
yeah.
I have a little strange, or Ihave been feeling a little run
down.
Whatever it may be, you canalso predict with your body.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, so it's really just a helpful tool, and I know
there's more things out therethat help with that than aura.
I just love how it pops up andsays thumbs off, slow down, and
so I think that's a healthyreminder, and if there's
something out there that worksfor people, utilize it, because
there are things that arewarning signs and, you know, pay
attention to your body, becauseyour body's trying to give you
warning signs too.
(31:04):
We just live in a society wherewe feel like we have to push
and, push and push and do allthe things and then sleep for
four hours and get up and do itagain, and that's not healthy.
No not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And, unfortunately, what I've had to tell people
even that are clients of thehealthiest person in the world.
People that are extremeathletes also can push
(31:42):
themselves too hard.
So listen to your body.
You are the expert in your body.
You just have to listen.
Absolutely, I wish.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Andy were here.
I don't think you've met one ofmy co-hosts before, but she's
written a book called RedefiningFine and one thing she talks
about all the time is how shewalked around telling everyone
she was fine and she was workinghard and doing all the things.
And she had a job that wassuper secretive for various
reasons.
She wasn't allowed to talkabout it.
And she went to work one dayand she died for 38 minutes.
(32:11):
She had a heart attack, wow.
And that morning she told herfamily she was fine when she'd
been crying in her closet.
Yeah, that's not, and that'snot the reminder we need.
We need to get there beforethat reminder, and that's what
her whole thing is about istelling people redefine your
fine.
Slow the heck down, listen toyour body.
(32:32):
I wish you were here to to talkto you and listen to you, but
she's you know doing the things,so it's just us today.
But my next thing is we'reshifting again.
What advice would you give tosomeone who feels limited by
finances, like food access orcultural norms, yet wants to
prioritize their health amidstthose challenges, because it can
(32:56):
be tough Eating healthy?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
is not cheap, it's not.
I always tell people it's notif you are looking for prepared
foods.
So it's the equation.
So you either have to give time, so you can use very, very
cheap ingredients and makedelicious foods that are super
healthy, or money no, but youcan do it on a budget for sure.
(33:18):
So, for example, something likedried beans are so healthy for
us and dirt cheap, but itrequires time.
So you need to soak the beansthe night before, but then you
can put them in something like aslow cooker, a pressure cooker,
so it doesn't require yourenergy necessarily, but time
(33:41):
require your energy necessarily,but time, and so a lot of
people may not be supercomfortable in the kitchen or
just haven't grown up with doingthese sorts of things, but I do
promise there is abudget-friendly way to eat
healthy.
It just does require a littlebit more know-how.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, and, like you said, beans is a really good
example, and if you have a spaceto grow your own vegetables,
that helps too.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I mean or eating seasonally, like things in
season are always going to belocally in season to where you
live, way cheaper at the grocerystore, Taking advantage of the
sales on things and thenfreezing it.
So there's a lot of differentthings that I tell people, and
one of the modules in my programis healthy eating on a budget,
because who wants to spend moremoney than you need to on
(34:20):
groceries when you can eathealthy very affordably?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Nobody who wants to go to the grocery store, and I
think we're all guilty of this.
You feel like you have a verysmall cart or basket full of
things and you get up there andyou check out and it's like $70.
Yes, and you're looking at.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Someone just told me that earlier this week and
literally used the exact sameamount dollar amount.
They said $70.
True.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
It is true.
You know, my husband and I lookat each other and we're like we
didn't buy laundry detergent,we didn't buy toilet paper, we
didn't buy a ton of meat Likewhat in the world did?
We just do?
It was a bunch of you knowmiscellaneous, like av and
onions and potatoes, you knowall the things.
But it adds up and then youstart adding in eggs which eggs
have been astronomical lately topeople.
(35:02):
You added milk and before youknow it, 70 bucks?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yes, definitely, and so that's where we can take
advantage of, let's say, localfarmers markets during the
seasons sales, for sure.
Also, international grocerystores sometimes have fantastic
deals on things.
So, but all of this requiresfiguring it out and having these
tips and tricks.
So I am not saying anyone outthere that's struggling with
their grocery bill, oh well,you're just not doing it right.
It's hard to do it right, butit is feasible, it is 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And you can definitely walk them through all
the tips, which is great.
And, like you said, sometimesit takes searching the right
grocery stores and sometimes wedon't have those available.
But just do what you can by themeans.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yes, there's lots of tricks and tips that I share
with my clients about how tomake it work.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Your outreach and your coaching.
They've offered so much hope topeople living with lupus and
even other conditions.
Is there a story or a momentthat stands out where you felt
you made a meaningful impact onsomeone's?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
life.
Honestly, it happens all thetime and it literally is fuel
for my passion Every single timethat I have someone even just
comment on something that Iposted like oh my gosh, this
helped me so much, and that'slike the smallest contribution
versus my something that Iposted like oh my gosh, this
helped me so much, and that'slike the smallest contribution
versus my clients that I helpover the course of months and
they're able to have a pregnancythat they weren't sure that
(36:28):
they were gonna be able to dosafely, or they feel great and
accept a promotion, or theynotice, okay, I'm able to get
back into the gym, likeliterally any type of success
just makes me feel likeabsolutely every moment of hard
work is absolutely worth it.
I would trade nothing for thecareer that I'm in, for the
(36:49):
passion that I bring to theautoimmune community, because I
feel like I'm making such ameaningful difference and it's
just worth every moment.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Those are the careers that everyone deserves
Definitely.
We need those feel-good momentswhere your cup is filled, maybe
even some tears, because itmakes the difficult times in
life feel so much better.
Yes, there's no words toexplain how good it feels when
you get that message, and Idon't know if you're like me,
but I start tearing up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I do too.
Anytime that I get good newsfrom someone, I'm like oh, I'm
so happy for you, yes, the tears.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
This is my whole year of what I do.
What sustaining words ofencouragement or even mindset
shifts do you hold onto to helpstay hopeful and empowered on
the toughest of days?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I tell this to everyone.
I don't know where, who said itfirst or if it's just one of
those things that existed.
But progress, not perfection.
Yes, because so many of us areeither holding ourselves back
from trying something newbecause I'm worried I won't be
good at it, or feeling defeatedif it doesn't come out perfectly
(37:58):
.
And it is such a fantasticreminder to everyone in the
world.
Literally no one is perfect.
That is impossible.
That never happens.
The world is such a chaoticplace.
All we want to do is haveprogress.
I want you to feel a bit better.
I want you to be able to domore that you want to do, to
feel healthier, to feel happier,like.
(38:19):
We just want to do the progress, and I think so many people
unfortunately maybe sabotagethemselves or just feel defeated
when it's not perfect and thatis just let's throw it away, the
whole concept of it, I think,for everyone out there.
I want them to remember thosesorts of big picture ideas.
So one trust in your body, tryto have a good relationship with
(38:41):
it.
Unfortunately, it is the onlyone that you're going to get and
there is a lot of grief inbeing diagnosed with a chronic
disease.
So work through that.
Hopefully you have support, buthaving that good relationship
with your body, however, you canget there.
It really helps.
And then, yes, remember thatprogress not perfection.
So take it day by day.
Try not to beat yourself up toomuch because you're already
(39:04):
like, let's say, if we were alljust walking a mile.
There's some people that havethe like most advantages.
Maybe they've been trainingtheir whole life, they have no
health problems, they've gotlike the bouncy shoes.
This is just an analogy forlife and for us with autoimmune
diseases, we've got kind of aweighted vest and maybe a back
and a part-time job of going todoctor's appointments.
(39:26):
So don't feel as though youhave to walk this mile as fast
as everybody else.
You're walking the mile.
That's the most important thingLike you are still doing the
thing and give yourself grace,and to not feel like I have to
compare myself to other peoplethat don't have all of the
challenges that we're livingwith.
This was such a joy.
Thank you, it was so nice tospeak with you For all the
(39:49):
listeners.
Please, if you're interested inhelp reach out to me.
Jen's going to put in mywebsite and my Instagram I'm
basically the lupus dietitianeverywhere that you can find me
and if you're thinking aboutchanging your diet, changing
your lifestyle, you want toimprove how you feel.
Please be in contact.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Please do, because she's such a joy.
You're going to feel so goodtalking to her and I promise
you're going to have some funtoo.
I'm fun sometimes, you are.
I think you're a blast.
I hope and cannot wait to seeyou in person again, because I
just love you to pieces and wehad so much fun.
Not only that, but I get tokeep you because we have a book
club now too.
(40:26):
Definitely, tanya.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom, your heart and hope with
us today.
Listeners, remember that smallsteps can spark big change and
you deserve a life that feelsnourishing in every single way.
So be sure to reach out toTanya, because she's going to
change your life.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, jen.
It has been such a pleasure andI can't wait for the next time
we can see each other in person.
Listeners until next time.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Don't forget your spoon.
Welcome back to another episode of my Spoonie
Sisters, and I'm your host,grace Fleejen.
Today.
I am so thrilled about this one.
I am here to welcome someonewho brings expertise, empathy
and lived experience to theworld of autoimmune wellness.
This is Tanya Freerich.
She is an SRDN, cdces I don'tknow what all these mean, but
(00:23):
you can tell me so.
She's better known as the lupusdietitian.
With more than 15 yearsexperience in the nutrition
field, tanya has guidedthousands toward healing through
nutrition.
What makes her work trulyinspiring is that she's not just
a dietitian.
She's also navigated lupusherself for over 11 years and
(00:44):
transformed her own health byoverhauling her diet and her
lifestyle, eventuallyeliminating flares altogether,
which isn't that the goal right?
She brings a compassionatewhole body and inclusive
approach, blending diet,self-care, stress, sleep,
movement, joy and honoring eachperson's unique background.
(01:04):
I already know this episode isgoing to be full of hope,
practical wisdom andencouragement for all of us on
our Spoonie journeys.
So hello, tanya.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
How are you today?
I am so good.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm so excited to chat with you.
Obviously, we chat otherwise,but it's so wonderful to be able
to answer your questions andget the word out about how
wellness, diet, lifestyle allcan make a huge difference in
how people feel.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Absolutely, and before we dive in.
Okay, so I read out all yourcredentials and they're wasted
on me because I have no ideawhat they mean.
But can you tell the listeningcommunity what all of that means
?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Yes for sure.
So a lot of people get veryconfused between the term
nutritionist and registereddietitian and not many people
know the difference unless youare a registered dietitian.
So a nutritionist unfortunatelydoesn't really have a lot of
rules of who can say thatthey're a nutritionist, so there
are a lot of people thatperhaps actually don't have much
(02:01):
behind that name.
Now a registered dietitian isvery regulated.
So my behind my name, the MSmeans I have a master's in
science.
So I went after my undergraduateto do more schooling in
nutrition and so I got amaster's degree.
Then my RDN means that I had totake a test.
I had to do a year longdietetic internship kind of like
(02:23):
medical school, but for adietitian and then I have to
submit for licensure.
Continuing education prove thatI'm still not only doing a good
job but also staying up to date.
And then during my career as adietitian I also really enjoyed
helping people with diabetes andwent for additional
credentialing.
(02:43):
It's certified diabetes careand education specialist.
So I really focus on peoplewith autoimmune disease.
But diabetes is so prevalent Igot so many questions about it
over the years that I reallywanted to be able to provide
that information as well.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Wow, okay.
So with all of this educationbackground, who not better to
talk to than you?
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Seriously, I love learning, I love staying up to
date, seeing all the newresearch, because if it's going
to be helpful, hey, why not.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
Yeah, and we got to meet in person a few months ago
when we went to an event withthe Rheumatology Research
Foundation.
And I'll tell you, it was likeinstantly when all of us got
together and sat down, it waslike we had all known each other
forever.
We had so much fun with all ourshenanigans and it was such a
blast and getting to know youand and hearing about your
(03:35):
background in your life it waswonderful, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
it is amazing how much just having a shared
experience of an autoimmunedisease just fast forwards a
friendship we had so much incommon and there were so many
moments that felt so validating.
When you hear it from someoneelse, oh yeah, I've had that
same experience.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
So, before we get diving into the questions,
there's actually a couple ofquestions I want to ask you
before I forget.
So what's next for you the restof 2025 and for 2026?
Are you planning to be at ACR?
Do you have any big thingscoming up?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yes, definitely.
So there's an autoimmunitysummit that I am doing in Dobbs
Ferry, new York, in September,so that's September 12th.
I am also going to ACR inNovember and the week of
September 15th I have mythree-month group program called
the Lupus Breakthrough that Iwill be running.
So this program is a fantasticway for me to be able to help
(04:28):
people with lupus change theirdiet.
It's a very structured program.
Just as I said that I loveeducation, I also really love
being able to educate as manypeople as possible on the
benefits of the diet andlifestyle changes for their
lupus symptoms, and so I'vecreated kind of like a class, a
curriculum, where people everyweek get a module, but we have
(04:50):
our group calls.
I add the one-on-one and a lotof accountability and support to
make sure that people have itpersonalized to their life but
that we're all getting the bestinformation so we can advocate
for ourselves, so that we canfeel knowledgeable in our own
diagnosis so we can advocate forourselves, so that we can feel
knowledgeable in our owndiagnosis.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Wow, exciting, okay.
Well, we need to make surepeople know all about this, and
so I'll try to include as muchas I can in the show notes.
But let's get started.
All about you.
Sure, can you share a littlebit of your personal journey?
What led you to your lupusdiagnosis and how did that
moment change your relationshipwith food and self-care, or did
that kind of take time?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, definitely.
So I'll start with my story.
So my story with autoimmunedisease started a very long time
ago.
In my early teens I was firstdiagnosed with Hashimoto's
thyroiditis, so basically myimmune system was attacking my
thyroid.
Also in my teens I got anotherautoimmune diagnosis ITP, so
idiopathic thrombocytopenia.
That means that my plateletswere really low.
(05:51):
Yes, I've also had my immunesystem attack my liver.
I have also had a lot of otherautoimmune kind of flare-ups and
a new diagnosis throughout myteens and 20s.
Now lupus was my last diagnosis.
It was in my late 20s and atthat point I had already been
working as a dietician.
So I felt as though, ok, all ofthese autoimmune things, I've
(06:15):
got to do something about it.
But at the point that I wasdiagnosed with lupus I was
having a lot of joint pain, alot of flares, losing hair.
My labs were really kind of adisaster and I had been working
out five days a week,socializing with my friends,
working as a dietician in ahospital with very long hours
and really been busy and notfelt impeded by my autoimmune
(06:39):
diagnoses.
I felt, okay, they'recontrolled, no big deal, I can
live my life and I was feelinggreat.
But then the lupus diagnosisand those flares that led.
They were kind of all a clusterthat really changed from a very
active life to kind of like ascreeching halt.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Well, and as you're talking about all this, I'm
going OK once again.
Autoimmune diseases likefriends, you can't have just one
.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, no, yes, they often beget more and more.
Unfortunately, when your immunesystem is so activated, I feel
like it's kind of like a lavafield, where the lava just like
spurts out over here and thenspurts out over here.
It's like the inflammation justcan't be kept down, so it's
just coming out in differentways.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
It's like, once it's triggered, it's like a water
bottle that gets punctured amillion times.
It's going to find its way toget out somehow.
Yeah, definitely, yeah, okay.
So getting started withdiagnoses at such a young age,
how did that affect friendshipsand activities and all that kind
of thing?
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Sure, that's a great question.
So I will say it was probablythe reason why I decided to be a
registered dietitian, because Ilearned very young when I eat a
little bit healthier I feelbetter, because certainly for my
thyroid, that affected myenergy.
I had been in and out of thehospital quite a lot throughout
my teens and twenties, sometimesin the hospital for a month at
(08:04):
a time while they were trying tofigure out what was wrong with
me.
So I integrally knew okay, Ihave to take care of myself,
otherwise things go very badlyvery quickly.
And I also had noticed dietmakes a difference in how I feel
.
So it definitely was somethingthat turned me down the path of
wellness because I could see howquickly that can kind of fall
(08:26):
apart.
Now, in terms of my friendshipsday to day, honestly I did not
want to make that the integralpart of my identity, of
conversations with people, so Iwould mention it as a as needed
basis.
Obviously I had to tell my highschool why I disappeared for a
month, but beyond that I reallyto tell my high school why I
disappeared for a month, butbeyond that I really did not
(08:47):
want to talk.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
I don't blame you because, especially at that age,
you have to worry what yourfriends are thinking.
Are they thinking you're anattention seeker, that you're
making things up?
Because that's what teenagerssometimes do, that's what kids
do.
They accuse, they makeassumptions because they don't
get it Right Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
So I did not look for understanding with other
teenagers, I just focused onwell, I've got to keep my grades
up.
I played tennis at that pointin high school and middle school
, so I just wanted to live mylife.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah, let's let's get through this.
Let's live my life the best Ican.
Let's survive it.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Definitely because I realized so early wow, food can
be something that is a tool thatcan be helpful.
I am 100% a foodie.
I love trying new things,trying new restaurants, trying
new cuisines, so I also verymuch enjoy food.
With my clients and with myself, I always say there is no such
(09:46):
thing as being perfect.
Please don't cut out likeextreme food groups or make
yourself into like a bit toocontrolling with your food, like
over restriction, usuallycauses kind of a pendulum swing
to forget it.
This is too hard, I don't wantto do it anymore.
So my goal for myself and everyclient I work with is let's
(10:07):
make manageable changes that youcan maintain long term, because
food can be a tool for you tohelp you help yourself feel
better.
But we don't want it to be kindof tiptoe over to I have to
control every single bite that Itake, because that's not great
for our mental health either.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I agree.
From my personal experiencethat is hard to have the correct
mindset when saying I need tolose some weight or I just need
to be eating better.
In general, I pick the samefoods for breakfast, lunch and
dinner and that's all I'm goingto eat.
I get overwhelmed and I think,oh well, I shouldn't eat this
and I shouldn't eat this, andthen I feel like I'm stopping
with eating altogether, and thatis even worse.
(10:45):
And so what kind of advicewould you give to a client
that's like I'm afraid to eat?
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Yes, and I find that a lot of clients that's when
they find me when they are sofrustrated, so overwhelmed
because there's so pardon,there's so much information out
there.
If you look on the internet,literally you will find a
million things that say, oh,this is good for lupus, this is
good for lupus or whatever theautoimmune disease is.
Some of it's good information,some of it is very not helpful
(11:15):
information and not accurate.
So people get so frustratedtrying to follow a million
different diets that they sayforget it.
I just what you said, forget it, I'm just not going to eat.
And that obviously is not theanswer.
We need food and fuel to bewell, nourished and to feel well
and reduce our inflammation.
So that's where my guidancecomes in of OK, here is all the
research.
This is backing what Irecommend and then giving all
(11:38):
this information about youpersonally.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
Here's the way that you can implement it in your to
see the best result Absolutely,and I'm sure that genetics have
a lot to play with all that too,because, you know, some people
are just naturally send peopleit doesn't matter what they eat.
And then there's some peoplewhere they might have to be more
cautious, because they evenlook at something and they put
on some weight.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Well, you know, a lot of people keep on extra weight
because of the inflammation.
Just like you get a bug bite,you notice how it gets swollen
and inflamed.
That's kind of like your wholebody.
When you're very inflamed andso often that leads to weight
gain, even if you're notchanging anything about what
you're eating.
And when we reduce theinflammation, people notice
(12:19):
sometimes that they're eatingmore and extra weight that they
had been carrying that wasn'tnormal for them comes down.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
I'm glad you brought that up, because that's actually
something that I've beenpersonally struggling with this
entire summer, and we had myson's wedding last week, thank
you.
And one of the things my momdid when she first saw me was
she started feeling my arms andmy hands and then she was like
looking at my feet, because myfeet have all summer long feet
and ankles just keep swelling up.
(12:46):
I'm having edema issues andinflammation is skyrocketed
right now, and they're trying toget everything under control.
Yeah, great, but I don't thinkwe talk enough about how your
scale is going to start going up, and I'm just looking at myself
and I feel like I can see fluideverywhere in my body.
I just I feel like I've, andtheir concern is, of course,
(13:25):
preventing organ damage, keepingus alive as well.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
And sometimes they take in the information, but
aren't so informative, of ohyeah, this can be an indicator
of your inflammation.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Yeah, and what I did find out from my rheumatologist
is the anti-inflammatoryprescription that they had me on
is known to cause edema, andshe told me, whenever you're
flaring, I want you to take it,because I didn't want to take it
every day.
I'm not that kind of person whowants to live that way.
We have to take enough pills,right, and so I would just take
it as needed.
(13:56):
We were about to go to Hawaii.
I was starting to flare, I wastaking it twice a day and, boom,
it was like I suddenly had, ontop of all the inflammation, all
this edema now, and so then,when I saw her, she said, okay,
this one's known for that, let'stake you off of it.
We're going to try you onanother one, okay, and I'm
seeing some of it come down, butit's still there and it's just
(14:18):
frustrating.
But we need to talk about itmore.
These are things that happen.
Is there, food-wise, anythingthat you would recommend to
somebody going through that?
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, definitely.
I mean edema in particular.
So the things that we can avoidthat will help it not become
worse.
Definitely be careful with yoursalt intake, yeah, so for
everyone out there, salt sodiumcan be very high in certain,
let's say, sauces, processedfoods like TV dinners, sauces
being something like hot sauces,soy sauce those can be very,
(14:51):
very high sodium, Unfortunately,like convenience foods.
So anything that's veryunprocessed usually doesn't have
very much sodium at all.
But when you get into boxedfoods, canned foods, frozen
foods unless it's just likesomething as simple as oh, it's
a bag of frozen broccoli andthey haven't added any sauces
then the sodium kind of adds uppretty quickly.
(15:12):
So being careful with sodium isa really great idea because
that makes us retain more water,Hydrating yourself.
I know that feels like, but I'malready carrying all this water.
Why would I drink more?
But it does help Well.
Extra water, yes, so it feelsstrange perhaps for somebody,
but I promise staying extrahydrated can help your body
(15:35):
reduce some of that edema.
If you can move gently, so whenyou are doing things that are
physical activity, good movementthat's not hurting your joints,
that helps not only yourcirculation but also your
lymphatic fluids.
Just move around in your body,which can also help with edema.
Some people benefit justcomfort-wise, from using things
(15:56):
like compression socks so thatthey don't feel as though it's
actually causing pain, andlifting your legs up can help
some of that fluid come backdown.
So there's a lot of things todo.
In terms of food, Going to theunprocessed things is the best,
because then you're also gettingthose other electrolytes that
help keep our water balance inthe right place, like potassium
(16:18):
and magnesium.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Oh, such good points.
Such good points.
And to listeners don't getdisheartened, because even if
you're doing all the rightthings, sometimes it's still
happening, and I'm proof of that.
And so keep trying, don't giveup.
Hopefully it's going to getback under control eventually.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Yeah, and please bring it up to your doctor too,
just as you did of like hey, I'mtrying this medication, but
these side effects are notworking for me and there may be
another approach.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And keep in mind.
You know, during the warmermonths sometimes we swell more,
sometimes there's more fluid.
It's just part of it.
You know we're more active andmaybe we're doing activities
we're not used to doing and sobodies might get angry and
that's just.
It's not okay.
I was about to say it's okay.
It's not okay, but it issomething we just have to manage
the best that we can.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And I think that's where people get really
frustrated, because we want ourbodies to be really predictable,
and that's certainly how I tryto help my clients of hey, if
you do X, y and Z that we talkedabout, that we already know
helps you, then you do get alittle bit more of that
predictability.
But at the end of the day, weare not robots.
(17:25):
We have hormones, seasonschange.
We have hormones, seasonschange, schedules change, your
food changes.
There's so many differentfactors, unfortunately, that
while it may seem frustrating,that's unpredictable.
If you are monitoring andpaying attention, you each
change as a learning opportunityof oh, that's how my body
reacts to this and eventuallyyou do get to the place where
(17:50):
you can learn enough about howyour body functions that you can
kind of get the hang of itAbsolutely Now.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
As a dietician living with lupus, what especially do
you find surprising or evenchallenging about applying what
you already know with your ownbody.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
I guess surprising was when I was first diagnosed.
I was already a registereddietitian and I thought I'm
eating pretty healthy butclearly it's not working because
I'm having all these flares andI just got diagnosed with
something new.
So then I realized, okay, well,clearly generally healthy is
just not cutting it for me.
So I'm going to put all myfocus on what is specifically
(18:28):
healthy for lupus, what researchexists that's specific to this
autoimmune corner of thenutrition world.
And so that was a littlesurprising at the beginning, but
I feel like happy that I knowmy body really well.
I have figured out thosechanges that really make a big
difference.
I think sometimes people feelreally at war with their body
(18:52):
because of the unpredictability,Like I did all the right things
, why am I flaring?
And so that's another place Ireally help my clients of like,
okay, let's figure out truly theright things for you so that
you can be aligned with yourbody, that you're supporting the
reduction of the inflammationand really kind of working
together, because you only haveone.
(19:13):
We don't get to get anotherbody, Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
So your method is deeply holistic.
So you weave together diet,sleep, stress, movement all the
really important things, alongwith joy and your
self-relationship.
Can you walk us through how yousupport someone in addressing
all of these layers?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yes, totally Well, it's bit by bit, so we can't
address everything all at onceExactly.
Usually with everyone that Iwork with and it depends on the
person too.
So I will say the vast majorityof the people we do diet first,
because so many people noticesuch an uptick in their energy
and a reduction in joint pain,other symptoms, when we change
(19:55):
the diet.
So that's the first thing thatwe address because it buys us
more spoons, more energy, moremotivation, more capability,
less brain fog to implement theother things.
But I will say, for some people, less brain fog to implement
the other things.
But I will say, for some people, maybe one of those the other
(20:16):
components of like a holisticbody change is so out of whack
that we have to address thatfirst.
But usually it's diet.
And then we add in somethinglike gentle movement, walking,
that exercise component, becauseit also improves the quality of
our sleep so much, but verygently and very piecemeal.
With the increasing exerciseI'm sure that you felt this way
and heard it from so many otherpeople Sometimes people get
(20:37):
really gung-ho.
Oh my gosh, I feel so muchbetter.
I'm going to go on a 10-milehike.
I'm going to go back to thatclass that, like CrossFit class
that I haven't been, yes, and sowe taper it up, not just all in
.
Then, of course, it dependsagain on the person.
Everyone's different, and so Ipersonalize the approach,
because some people really needto think about their environment
(20:59):
first.
Some people really need to workon boundaries, and that can be
at the beginning too, of hey, wehave to say no to some of these
demands so that you have thetime for yourself.
So it's a lot of things.
I try as best as I can to meetpeople where they are, because
the more personalized it is totheir journey, the better
(21:20):
success they're going to have.
So there's not a formula thatworks for everyone and that's
okay.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
How do you approach healthy sleep?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
hygiene.
There's a lot of suggestionsthat I have.
I'm happy to go into at leastthe first couple.
So one your room, well, yourhabits before bed.
So we should not be scrolling onsocial media.
It is especially something likeTikTok can go from a happy,
funny video to something reallyreally heavy, dark, a piece of
(21:51):
news that you just weren'tprepared for.
So it is too much of anemotional roller coaster.
Also, the blue light from ourphones tell our body hey, wake
up, stay awake, it's the middleof the day, you need to be alert
, and all of that is adding tokind of a fight or flight
response that we don't needbefore bed.
So definitely social media, tv,any sort of electronics.
(22:12):
We want to turn off a goodamount of time before bedtime.
If people aren't into reading abook, maybe just do something
quiet like take a shower, listento some nice music journal.
I mean, we can go as far intomeditation and deep breathing as
people want to, but itdefinitely needs to be
activities that help things godown in terms of like okay, I
(22:36):
can relax, my nervous system cantake a break, I'm not on high
alert.
The other things are setting upyour sleep environment.
So we want it to be dark and tobe cool.
Of course we want it to becomfortable.
So we want it to be dark and tobe cool.
Of course we want it to becomfortable.
This one's really hard forpeople, but sometimes we got to
get the pets out of the bedroom.
They can be really disturbingand a lot of people are like no,
don't make me lock out my kittyor my doggy.
(23:00):
But then they're also waking upat two in the morning, three in
the morning, four in themorning with the dog on their
face or the cat going like thisat their feet, and so you're
missing out on really deep,quality sleep and your pet will
still love you so very much.
They might just need to sleepsomewhere else in the house.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Absolutely, and sometimes they don't actually
want to sleep with you anyway.
I have two cats and sometimesthey insist on being with us,
but they, you know, they'reolder.
And so one likes to lay on apillow behind my head so that
she can drape her paws on myshoulder.
Doesn't bother me, doesn't wakeme up, it's very odd.
And then the other cat sleepswith pillows around her.
(23:39):
She's like in this circle inbetween my husband and I, by the
pillows, and she just sleepsthere.
The only disturbing thing is ifthey get up to use the cat,
which you know animals do.
But I think you know, if youhave an elderly cat, that's just
going to sleep, that's onething.
But if you have a dog, thatneeds to get up and go out, if
you have a cat, that a kitten,that's hyper.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah.
They're going to be playingwith all the things in your room
, come on and it's totally fine,seriously, if the pet isn't
disturbing you.
But if you are wakingfrequently, that's when it's not
helpful.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
It's time to go.
Yeah, they need their own space, maybe their own room.
So you are also.
You emphasize that you are theexpert in your body.
So how do you help clientslearn to listen, to trust their
own lived experience, especiallywhen it may go against popular
advice?
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, this is so important.
So how I help my clients is one.
We have food and mood andsymptom journals.
I don't insist that everyonefill it out every bite of their
day or every moment of their day, but those check-ins and some
people love it and some peopleuse it kind of okay, I'm going
to do three days at a time andjust really focus in on my body.
But those are a greatopportunity to check in how do I
feel after this meal, what's myenergy been looking like?
(24:57):
What's my joint pain beenlooking like?
And again, some people do itfor every day and they feel like
it's such a great practice tobe in tune with their body.
And some people want to do okay,let's say, the first month, I'm
going to do it.
Three days A month from now,I'm going to do it three days A
month from now.
Again, I'll do it another threedays.
But it's amazing to see thedata points of yeah, I was a
(25:19):
nine out of 10 in my joint painand now I'm at a five out of 10.
And now I'm at a one out of 10.
And having that data point,it's really hard to remember
these things like well, my jointpain is a lot better, but to
note when it happened and inresponse to what changes really
helps you connect with your bodyand honestly let's be, let's
(25:39):
all kind of reflect on a journeywith autoimmune, sometimes just
to get through the day becauseof joint pain or fatigue, we
kind of distance ourselves andjust say I can't deal with the
joint pain right now.
I have to go to work, I have topick up my kids, whatever it may
be.
So sometimes, as a protectivehabit, we've set aside checking
(26:03):
in our body.
So I do want people toreconnect, to trust in their
expertise because I can't feelwhat's going on in their body.
So I do want people toreconnect, to trust in their
expertise because I can't feelwhat's going on in their body.
And if you hate the time tosettle in, you can become the
expert.
Everyone is the expert.
It's just how much they've beentuning in or not.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yes, All right Now we're going to shift a little
bit.
Okay, eliminating your ownflares is such a triumph.
What were the first practicalshifts that you made in your
diet or lifestyle that reallymade you feel like you?
Speaker 2 (26:33):
were seeing relief.
Yeah, definitely.
So diet was one big thing.
I tried a lot of things.
Another thing that was reallybig for me was understanding
okay, rest has to take apriority.
I need to go to bed earlier, Ineed to make sure that I'm
getting in good quality sleepand to be more gentle with my
exercise especially.
(26:54):
I had just never had lupusflares before.
I'd had flares of otherautoimmune diseases, and that
was a different approach.
I had to take in more rest,more relaxation and then more
autoimmune anti-inflammatoryfoods for that autoimmune flare.
So it was different, despiteliving with other autoimmune
(27:16):
diseases for years and yearsbefore that?
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Did you start to notice what triggers your?
Speaker 2 (27:20):
inflammation?
Yeah, definitely, which wasagain kind of building that
toolkit of okay, this is how myfantastic, amazing, sometimes
confusing body works.
And now, because I've helped somany other people, I can kind
of have a collection of well youpresent with these sorts of
symptoms.
This is what your labs looklike.
This is the pathway that'sprobably going to help you the
(27:43):
most, which is really cool.
What are your personal biggesttriggers?
I mean, this one actuallyapplies to a lot of people.
If I get sick like an infectionor my body's already fighting
something else, that's when Iknow, okay, it's time to go into
like R&R mode of.
I need to prioritize rest, Ineed to prioritize
(28:06):
anti-inflammatory foods.
We're going to take a break onexercise.
My goals for those other partsof my life, like maybe strength
training or getting in morecardio, they just have to be on
pause and that's okay, like I amstill doing a fantastic job of
being healthy by kind of turningdown the volume knob on all of
(28:27):
those activities.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
And it doesn't mean you're not going to go back to
doing them again Of course not.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Never stop as a pause .
Yes, yes, and I'm going to feelso much better, so much faster
if I just stop.
Stop, let your body recover andthen I can get back to the
other things.
I think that's a really toughthing for so many people.
Is the acceptance unfortunate?
Acceptance that, with any sortof chronic disease, means that
(28:55):
we again are not robots.
We cannot just push through,push through, push through, push
through it.
Just it doesn't work.
Our bodies aren't like that.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
We have a limit and I think we talked about this a
few months ago when we were inperson.
But I used to be an Apple watchwearer forever and all of a
sudden, one day my husband,before Christmas, was like you
know, I've been reading up onthese aura rings and they're
supposed to be more accurate.
I think I talked with you aboutit, right?
I think we were passing ourrings around because a few of us
had them.
(29:22):
And one thing that I love aboutit and I tell people this all
the time, no-transcript, but Ilove it, and here's why the
biggest reason I recommend it topeople is in the app.
It takes and correlates all ofmy stuff together and it's
(29:46):
tracking your activity, yoursleep, all of it.
It pops up and tells me when I'mgetting run down and that I
need to slow down.
It'll even say you might notwant to work out today Some
things.
How does it phrase it?
It says something is affectingmy body at that moment and
making me weaker.
It's better phrasing than whatI'm saying, but that's basically
(30:06):
what it's saying to me, andI'll tell you.
What I've noticed is, everytime this pops up on my app, I'm
about to get sick with somekind of infection or I'm about
to flare, or both.
I kid you, not every time itpops up.
I've gotten tonsillitis or asinus infection or something
like that, every single time,and so I love that thing.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, well, that's great.
And now perhaps also it'sgiving you the awareness of oh
yeah.
I have a little strange, or Ihave been feeling a little run
down.
Whatever it may be, you canalso predict with your body.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
Yeah, so it's really just a helpful tool, and I know
there's more things out therethat help with that than aura.
I just love how it pops up andsays thumbs off, slow down, and
so I think that's a healthyreminder, and if there's
something out there that worksfor people, utilize it, because
there are things that arewarning signs and, you know, pay
attention to your body, becauseyour body's trying to give you
warning signs too.
(31:04):
We just live in a society wherewe feel like we have to push
and, push and push and do allthe things and then sleep for
four hours and get up and do itagain, and that's not healthy.
No not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:15):
And, unfortunately, what I've had to tell people
even that are clients of thehealthiest person in the world.
People that are extremeathletes also can push
(31:42):
themselves too hard.
So listen to your body.
You are the expert in your body.
You just have to listen.
Absolutely, I wish.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Andy were here.
I don't think you've met one ofmy co-hosts before, but she's
written a book called RedefiningFine and one thing she talks
about all the time is how shewalked around telling everyone
she was fine and she was workinghard and doing all the things.
And she had a job that wassuper secretive for various
reasons.
She wasn't allowed to talkabout it.
And she went to work one dayand she died for 38 minutes.
(32:11):
She had a heart attack, wow.
And that morning she told herfamily she was fine when she'd
been crying in her closet.
Yeah, that's not, and that'snot the reminder we need.
We need to get there beforethat reminder, and that's what
her whole thing is about istelling people redefine your
fine.
Slow the heck down, listen toyour body.
(32:32):
I wish you were here to to talkto you and listen to you, but
she's you know doing the things,so it's just us today.
But my next thing is we'reshifting again.
What advice would you give tosomeone who feels limited by
finances, like food access orcultural norms, yet wants to
prioritize their health amidstthose challenges, because it can
(32:56):
be tough Eating healthy?
Speaker 2 (32:57):
is not cheap, it's not.
I always tell people it's notif you are looking for prepared
foods.
So it's the equation.
So you either have to give time, so you can use very, very
cheap ingredients and makedelicious foods that are super
healthy, or money no, but youcan do it on a budget for sure.
(33:18):
So, for example, something likedried beans are so healthy for
us and dirt cheap, but itrequires time.
So you need to soak the beansthe night before, but then you
can put them in something like aslow cooker, a pressure cooker,
so it doesn't require yourenergy necessarily, but time
(33:41):
require your energy necessarily,but time, and so a lot of
people may not be supercomfortable in the kitchen or
just haven't grown up with doingthese sorts of things, but I do
promise there is abudget-friendly way to eat
healthy.
It just does require a littlebit more know-how.
Speaker 1 (33:52):
Yeah, and, like you said, beans is a really good
example, and if you have a spaceto grow your own vegetables,
that helps too.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I mean or eating seasonally, like things in
season are always going to belocally in season to where you
live, way cheaper at the grocerystore, Taking advantage of the
sales on things and thenfreezing it.
So there's a lot of differentthings that I tell people, and
one of the modules in my programis healthy eating on a budget,
because who wants to spend moremoney than you need to on
(34:20):
groceries when you can eathealthy very affordably?
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Nobody who wants to go to the grocery store, and I
think we're all guilty of this.
You feel like you have a verysmall cart or basket full of
things and you get up there andyou check out and it's like $70.
Yes, and you're looking at.
Speaker 2 (34:35):
Someone just told me that earlier this week and
literally used the exact sameamount dollar amount.
They said $70.
True.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
It is true.
You know, my husband and I lookat each other and we're like we
didn't buy laundry detergent,we didn't buy toilet paper, we
didn't buy a ton of meat Likewhat in the world did?
We just do?
It was a bunch of you knowmiscellaneous, like av and
onions and potatoes, you knowall the things.
But it adds up and then youstart adding in eggs which eggs
have been astronomical lately topeople.
(35:02):
You added milk and before youknow it, 70 bucks?
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yes, definitely, and so that's where we can take
advantage of, let's say, localfarmers markets during the
seasons sales, for sure.
Also, international grocerystores sometimes have fantastic
deals on things.
So, but all of this requiresfiguring it out and having these
tips and tricks.
So I am not saying anyone outthere that's struggling with
their grocery bill, oh well,you're just not doing it right.
It's hard to do it right, butit is feasible, it is 100%.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
And you can definitely walk them through all
the tips, which is great.
And, like you said, sometimesit takes searching the right
grocery stores and sometimes wedon't have those available.
But just do what you can by themeans.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Yes, there's lots of tricks and tips that I share
with my clients about how tomake it work.
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Your outreach and your coaching.
They've offered so much hope topeople living with lupus and
even other conditions.
Is there a story or a momentthat stands out where you felt
you made a meaningful impact onsomeone's?
Speaker 2 (36:06):
life.
Honestly, it happens all thetime and it literally is fuel
for my passion Every single timethat I have someone even just
comment on something that Iposted like oh my gosh, this
helped me so much, and that'slike the smallest contribution
versus my something that Iposted like oh my gosh, this
helped me so much, and that'slike the smallest contribution
versus my clients that I helpover the course of months and
they're able to have a pregnancythat they weren't sure that
(36:28):
they were gonna be able to dosafely, or they feel great and
accept a promotion, or theynotice, okay, I'm able to get
back into the gym, likeliterally any type of success
just makes me feel likeabsolutely every moment of hard
work is absolutely worth it.
I would trade nothing for thecareer that I'm in, for the
(36:49):
passion that I bring to theautoimmune community, because I
feel like I'm making such ameaningful difference and it's
just worth every moment.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Those are the careers that everyone deserves
Definitely.
We need those feel-good momentswhere your cup is filled, maybe
even some tears, because itmakes the difficult times in
life feel so much better.
Yes, there's no words toexplain how good it feels when
you get that message, and Idon't know if you're like me,
but I start tearing up, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
I do too.
Anytime that I get good newsfrom someone, I'm like oh, I'm
so happy for you, yes, the tears.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
This is my whole year of what I do.
What sustaining words ofencouragement or even mindset
shifts do you hold onto to helpstay hopeful and empowered on
the toughest of days?
Speaker 2 (37:36):
I tell this to everyone.
I don't know where, who said itfirst or if it's just one of
those things that existed.
But progress, not perfection.
Yes, because so many of us areeither holding ourselves back
from trying something newbecause I'm worried I won't be
good at it, or feeling defeatedif it doesn't come out perfectly
(37:58):
.
And it is such a fantasticreminder to everyone in the
world.
Literally no one is perfect.
That is impossible.
That never happens.
The world is such a chaoticplace.
All we want to do is haveprogress.
I want you to feel a bit better.
I want you to be able to domore that you want to do, to
feel healthier, to feel happier,like.
(38:19):
We just want to do the progress, and I think so many people
unfortunately maybe sabotagethemselves or just feel defeated
when it's not perfect and thatis just let's throw it away, the
whole concept of it, I think,for everyone out there.
I want them to remember thosesorts of big picture ideas.
So one trust in your body, tryto have a good relationship with
(38:41):
it.
Unfortunately, it is the onlyone that you're going to get and
there is a lot of grief inbeing diagnosed with a chronic
disease.
So work through that.
Hopefully you have support, buthaving that good relationship
with your body, however, you canget there.
It really helps.
And then, yes, remember thatprogress not perfection.
So take it day by day.
Try not to beat yourself up toomuch because you're already
(39:04):
like, let's say, if we were alljust walking a mile.
There's some people that havethe like most advantages.
Maybe they've been trainingtheir whole life, they have no
health problems, they've gotlike the bouncy shoes.
This is just an analogy forlife and for us with autoimmune
diseases, we've got kind of aweighted vest and maybe a back
and a part-time job of going todoctor's appointments.
(39:26):
So don't feel as though youhave to walk this mile as fast
as everybody else.
You're walking the mile.
That's the most important thingLike you are still doing the
thing and give yourself grace,and to not feel like I have to
compare myself to other peoplethat don't have all of the
challenges that we're livingwith.
This was such a joy.
Thank you, it was so nice tospeak with you For all the
(39:49):
listeners.
Please, if you're interested inhelp reach out to me.
Jen's going to put in mywebsite and my Instagram I'm
basically the lupus dietitianeverywhere that you can find me
and if you're thinking aboutchanging your diet, changing
your lifestyle, you want toimprove how you feel.
Please be in contact.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Please do, because she's such a joy.
You're going to feel so goodtalking to her and I promise
you're going to have some funtoo.
I'm fun sometimes, you are.
I think you're a blast.
I hope and cannot wait to seeyou in person again, because I
just love you to pieces and wehad so much fun.
Not only that, but I get tokeep you because we have a book
club now too.
(40:26):
Definitely, tanya.
Thank you for sharing yourwisdom, your heart and hope with
us today.
Listeners, remember that smallsteps can spark big change and
you deserve a life that feelsnourishing in every single way.
So be sure to reach out toTanya, because she's going to
change your life.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Thank you.
Thank you so much, jen.
It has been such a pleasure andI can't wait for the next time
we can see each other in person.
Listeners until next time.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Don't forget your spoon.
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