June 5, 2025 • 67 mins
Behind the neon lights and vibrant nightlife of Pattaya lies a story rarely told – one of connection, loss, and the silent mental health crisis affecting Thailand's ladyboy community. This deeply moving conversation features John, a British expat who has been visiting Thailand for 24 years before finally making it his home.
John takes us through his journey from casual tourist to someone deeply embedded in Thailand's complex social landscape. With remarkable candor, he shares how his relationships evolved from his seven-year marriage to a Thai woman to his meaningful connections with ladyboys that challenged his own preconceptions. His story provides a nuanced look at cross-cultural relationships that transcend traditional Western gender boundaries.
The heart of this episode centers on John's relationship with Minnie, a ladyboy he met at a bar called The House. Their genuine connection, which lasted about two years, ended amicably, but they remained in contact. When John received the devastating news of Minnie's suicide, it opened his eyes to a tragic reality affecting the community. We explore shocking statistics revealing that up to 27% of ladyboys in Pattaya have attempted suicide, with only 10% receiving any mental health support.
Together with our co-host Pim, who provides valuable insider perspective as a ladyboy herself, we examine the complex factors behind these statistics – from relationship difficulties and HIV stigma to substance abuse and the challenges of aging in a youth-focused industry. Most importantly, we discuss how breaking the silence around mental health struggles could save lives.
The conversation concludes with a powerful message borrowed from MMA fighter Paddy Pimblett: "I'd rather my mate cry on my shoulder than go to his funeral next week." If you're struggling or know someone who might be, this episode offers both understanding and hope. Reach out, speak up, and remember that connection is often the strongest lifeline we have.
R.I.P Minnie
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This episode is dedicated to Mini.
Hello everyone and welcome backto my Thai Wife Podcast.
I'm Mike and sadly I'm stilldoing this without my lovely,
lovely wife Shunari.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi, I'm Pim, Nice to see you again.
Welcome back to my Thai WifePodcast.
How are you, pim?
I'm doing good.
How about you?
Always good, yeah, always good.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And we have a very special guest, a very close
friend of mine.
Again, I don't know him forthat long, but we became very
good friends recently.
And hello, john, how are you?
Hello, I'm fine, great tofinally have you here.
Thank you for having me.
I waited for that for at leasta few weeks.
Thank you for having me, and Ithink it's going to be a very
(00:49):
interesting and emotionalpodcast.
It certainly will be.
Yeah, but first can we hearyour journey, how you came to
Pattaya, and I know, I know nowyou stay here for 17 years how I
come to prepare.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
First time was 24 years ago.
Okay, me and my good friendSteve from England, once a year
we used to go to a travel agentsee where we're going to go.
Yeah, I just book up.
We've been all around the worldMexico, barbados, ibiza,
everywhere.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So all the main party cities.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, it was 24 years ago.
Two friends of mine back inEngland come over to Thailand
for the first time.
Okay, they come back.
We met up with them for a beerand they said get yourself to
Thailand.
And that was it so for a beer.
And they said get yourself toThailand.
And that was it so for 24 years.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
And in the last 14 months 14?
.
Oh, I thought it was 17 months,14.
Okay 14 months, I've beendecided to move to Pattaya, okay
.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And when the first time you came to Thailand you
went straight to Pattaya, orfirst you to Thailand you went
straight to Pattaya, or firstyou yeah went straight to
Pattaya okay yep, so you're oneof the smart guys.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Stayed in a hotel on Beach Road called the.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Montiel, okay, so you've come in here for a long
time.
Have you seen anything changethrough the years.
I'm not mean how the city looks, I'm all mean about the
attitude.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
No, it's all the I find it all the same Thai people
are so friendly and welcoming,yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The food is great.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The Thai food is the best.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, as long as you can eat spicy food I can eat
very spicy.
Oh, my God, I think we need todo a competition one day, me and
you.
Oh, maybe, I think maybe youwin.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I'll lose she.
We need to do a competition oneday, me and you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, baby, I think maybe you win she's one of the
broken ties, you know.
The other day we had somedinner and I knew she cannot eat
spicy, so I ordered especiallythe som tam.
For me it's spicy isan som tamwith the crab and the fermented
fish, and for her just somebarbecues.
(03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I just taste this little bit of papaya salad, yeah
, so then I'm like I've gotspicy, so then stop.
I was like you think you'd likea man, man.
But I know you can't, I knowyou can't do that.
You can't take spicy Thai ladynot take spicy.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Thai lady don't like spicy yeah but she likes spicy
men, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That makes up for it, correct.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So what made you decide to?
Okay, fuck it, I want to livehere, like I know you're not a
young man anymore, right, you'rein your 50s, I guess 59.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Oh, 60 days, 60 days a year.
Okay, oh, 60 this year.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Okay, yeah, this is why you said fuck it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I want to know I've wanted because I was married to
a Thai girl.
Okay, I first met her.
The second year I come toThailand.
Well, I met her the first year,but only in a bar.
Second year I come, we gottogether and that was it and I'm
(04:10):
an awesome you've been together, how many years you've been
married to.
Seven years, seven yearsbecause we, yeah.
And then we got together, likeback to England, back to
Thailand.
She went to England in the endwe got our visa, went to Bangkok
to the British Embassy, I hadan interview and she come back
(04:34):
to England for us on a six-monthvisa, but in within that six
months.
We got married.
So and then she got themarriage visa, so she got
permanent leave to remain in andto work.
So for the first six months shecouldn't work.
I had the same.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I had the same experience with my yeah, my wife
.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So, as soon as she flew to england, she said john,
I want.
So she said I want to go tocollege learn more english.
English, okay, because when Ifirst met her her English was
that, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, hello, well, the people, I can't get
all of you to know.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Very, very, very so she was willing to go to college
, learn.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And as soon as she got the visa to stay in England
permanent, she got a job.
I got her a job like a job,okay, okay.
And then you have seven.
After seven years, we, yeah,she's on together.
No, no, no, no, no.
She already had two children,okay, yeah.
And we had a house built up innear Udon Thani okay yeah, and
(05:44):
eventually just decided yeah,and then we just parted ways.
After seven years she's still inEngland.
She's as far as I know.
I have no contact with her nowoh, was it a bad breakup?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
was it a bad breakup?
No, no, not really.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
No, it's like a separate and yeah, get life here
my life and separate.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, you saw.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So you thought to yourself okay, now I'm single,
I'm going to make the samemistakes over again.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
We had too many mistakes in life.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And then when I decided to move out here, well,
I wanted to move a few years ago, but I lost my mom 15, 16 years
ago, okay, and so I moved inwith my dad and I said to my
family I said look, when thatdies, I'm moving.
(06:40):
Okay, you tie that so that thatwas four years ago.
This year my dad passed away.
How old was he?
88.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Okay, that's a good age.
Yeah, okay.
Then you just said you waitedtwo years.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I waited two years, because we waited two years and
then Okay, so because we soldthe house and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But you still kept on coming here every year.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, still kept coming over.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
For like your holiday .
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, I'd come over for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Oh, three weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah normally three weeks in April and then again in
October.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Okay, I see Three weeks is a good amount of time.
It's not too much that you feellike overwhelmed, and it's not…
Too short?
Yeah, too short that you feel.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
oh, I haven't did all I wanted.
Three weeks is the sweet spot,I think.
Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty goodholiday.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, sometimes two weeks, because well, I've been
over here for two weeks beforeand I think I could do with
another week.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, it's not enough .
It's not good enough.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Then before you come over for say a month and
anything, I'm skiing too muchnow because you're out every
night.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, I see, and I know I asked this before, but,
like, of course, many thingshave changed in Pattaya and
Thailand in the recent 20 years.
One of the things that changesis the prices, right?
So I guess 24 years ago youused to bring only, let's say,
1,000 pounds and just give anexample.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Now we have to bring double that 20-something years
years ago, when I first camehere, I was getting 80 baht to 1
pound.
Now it's 44, so nearly almosthalf.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Ok.
I remember the 20 expats whenit went below 5 they were raging
like yeah, yeah so yeah, it'shard for them.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I hear like, I hear like, uh, before it's just like
if who had a boyfriend fromanother country, like a foreign
man, you know, then they, theygotta look like very, very rich.
Because I'm for.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The rate was very.
Yeah, the rate yeah, it wasbetter.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And they like make house easy yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I say my house I had built up near Udon's.
That cost me about £13,000, 20.
Which is 20 years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Which is nothing, 21, 22 years ago, and I guess it's
a proper house.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It's four bedrooms, yeah, two en-suite.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
With the land, with everything.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
No, was she on the land.
My old wife already had theland, Okay what her uncle gave
to her.
So luckily enough, we didn'thave to buy the land.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Okay and well, I met you at our mutual friend's bar,
which I cannot say his name dueto his request, but we are
talking about Delirious Bar,which is a very known, if not
the most known, ladyboy bar in.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Pattaya Certainly is.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So when you started, like Ladyboys.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
It would be eight years ago.
I was staying down in Suite Ain a hotel.
In Suite A Me and my friend wecome out of the hotel to go to a
bar down Beach Road and when wewalked out there was a girl
pulled up on a motorbike.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We talked about the Flipper Lodge.
Yes, of course the FlipperLodge, of course the Flipper
Lodge.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Anyway, there was a bar opposite called the Beehive
Bar Okay, which is not there nomore, it's been knocked down.
We come out of there and a girlwas just parking her motorbike
up and she said, oh, you want ataxi.
I went no, no, no, we're justgoing to a bar down here.
And then we get to the bar.
I said to my friend, I saidwhat a beautiful lady.
(10:53):
I said we'll have a few drinkshere and we go back to that bar,
okay, and that was it, and Ididn't realize it.
She was amazing Because we onlyhad a little interaction for a
minute, as we both can you knowlike how look beauty from
ladyboy that time, but now howdifferent oh, that's a good
(11:15):
question if the style changedyeah, like at that time, is it
have a lot of feminin more thanthis time?
Yeah now a lot, a lot prettierBecause of the surgeries, I
think because of surgery,surgery and stuff, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Because, as you said before, it was more like
feminine boys, right, yeah, yes,yes, like I don't want to say
femboys because it's cringe, butyou know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah , yeah, certainly, yeah, okay,
yeah so now everyone just gettheir tits that was it we.
I spent the rest of my holidaywith her, and do you have any
thoughts about what am I?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
doing, or it was just natural for you.
You liked her, you don't care aperson.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Okay, I think that's the way to look at it, right,
it's a person, it doesn't meananything about you or about her.
Okay, and the next time youjust said no more woman Like
that.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
how long, how long do you spend time in her?
The rest of the holiday.
Yeah, the rest of the holiday.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I flew back home and now I think the next year I come
out.
We still contact each otherevery day and I went back.
We went up to Sarin.
She was from.
Sarin, so we went up to see herfamily for a week and then come
(12:42):
back to Pattaya for a week.
I flew back home and then comeback to Pattaya for a week.
I flew back home and then lateron that year come back over
here, borrowed a brother's car.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
We drove to Surin, spent time with the family it's
like a close together, like afamily you've not been like in a
relationship like boyfriend andgirlfriend, right, yeah, and
how like your friends reacted tothat.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh, they don't give a fuck.
No, they with you.
I used to get a bit of a youknow a bit of a bite, you know,
not massively you know because?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, but now in Pattaya it's so open no one
really cares about anythinganymore.
Like the other day we just wentto the same bar, Delirious, and
there were like two guys liketalking between them who love
coke more, you know.
Oh, I love it.
I want to get it down as well.
Now I want to get it up my ass,you know.
And just two 60 or even older,you old guys just competing each
(13:54):
other.
Who like who likes cock more so?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
yeah, you know, no one really use cock, like with
many stuff, like like a mouthass or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, A competition, or a friend Guillaume, for
example, every time that hecomes to the bar he just to
ladyboys and he just pretendingto suck both of them.
You know, yeah, that's what'sfun about it, I think.
Also I spoke about before, butI found for myself that, even if
(14:25):
you're not into Lady Boys,right, lady Boys bars are much
more fun than girly bars.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I've got friends I drink with down the bar just
down here.
They're not into Lady Boys, butthey say to me John, are you
going out tonight?
I say, yeah, I.
I go to my friend bar, oh, wecome, and they love it, even
though they're not into ladyboys, but they just like the
(14:53):
environment the environment.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I think it's much more lively.
It's much more funny it is doyou agree?
Have you went to like girlybars and saw the difference?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can say it's just totally
different.
Like for ladies, they are muchcare about customer.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So more money-oriented, more money
Money-oriented, okay, moneyoriented and for for lady boy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's just like I'm being there and much they are
doesn't doesn't only for moneywhen, like lady boy they're also
enjoying this.
Yeah, also it's because we, weare, we are have same, uh
similar personal, like ladyboywith ladyboy and we talk each
(15:44):
other.
It's just like doesn't aboutmoney, but much more about yeah,
have fun chatting.
And yeah yeah, like that, so Ican say it's different from from
the way now.
Yeah, but some some place.
Yeah, it's just like some lady.
Befriend is easy, but notmeaningfully yeah like I agree
(16:08):
with that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, it's more money oriented, I find it.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You go in a lady bar and it's just, I don't know,
boring to me.
Depends on the bar, depends onthe bar.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Some bars are good, but most of them is just the
same thing.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, and if you go to ladyboy bars, every bar is so
different and so like differentcharacters there, you know yeah
, different style yeah, I reallyappreciate it.
I think it's.
This is part of the fun.
By the way, we sit there almostevery day at that bar right yes
, and as you said before, manypeople that even are not into
(16:43):
ladyboys are coming just for theexperience, just for to see it
have a fun, because the ladyboysare shouting and smacking each
other.
You know, it's funny.
It is funny to watch.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's like something something happened with nonsense
exactly it's nonsense but it isfun.
Yeah, I agree.
So how about, like, when yousee you can't see the bar,
ladyboy bar, and then what is itfor you?
Is it very he likes cock?
I mean how, ladyboy, be to youand then make you feel like, oh,
(17:19):
they are so nice so welcome.
So so welcome most of them, yeahso I can't say like ladyboy
much the most ladyboy they arefriendly.
Yeah, of course, good, ofcourse, cause like for me, I'm
(17:40):
ladyboy, I know how I am, butfor other I know, it's not not
about sexual but it's aboutpersonal yeah, yeah it depends
on personal.
So I'm not saying I can't sayI'm not saying many ladyboy but
because you have differentpersonality, yeah, different
personal.
So yeah, about you guy.
(18:01):
You you know like being manybar many, you see many people,
so yeah that's why she wants toknow if you met someone special
as hell.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
This is what she's asking yeah, like who, pretty
like.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah what it's about they are.
Act like you guys, but before Imean like yeah, 20 years before
, oh you think there was adifference.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I I don't think there was much difference.
Ladyboys were always ladyboys.
I think it was just a littlebit more close back then it was
uh, very, yes, there wasn't.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
obviously soy bocal has hit it off, yeah, but I
think that soy Bacal obviouslywas there, but I don't think so
many bars or no.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
no, it's in the recent 10 years.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Very few, well, very few ladyboy bars back then.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I know the old ones.
The famous old ones were LaBamba in Soy 13.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
13 one yes, yeah 13 one.
Soy in sorry, 13?
, 13, yes, the house, the housebar.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's where I met Minnie, which we'll speak about
in a short bit.
Yeah, and like I think Well,I'm not sure about it, but I had
friends that used to go toLadyboys bar a few years ago I'm
(19:28):
talking 10 or more and thereused to be a stigma against
Ladyboys that they are stealingmoney, that they are taking
drugs, that they are attackingpeople, and there are still some
stories that you hear about itjust because the media like to
exaggerate everything.
But there used to be a stigmaagainst ladyboys before.
Do you remember that?
(19:53):
I can't be honest, I can't youknow what stories I'm talking
about?
I can't.
People said that ladyboys usedto yeah, yeah, yeah, like on
beach road.
I can't.
So what's the point?
People said that lady was usedto women.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like on beach road, what they call coconut alley.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They worked there.
I've heard lots of stories thatthey take a lady boy or even a
lady back to their room or goback to the lady's room.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And they would just drag them and steal everything,
mainly they would go back to theman's room.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Of course, a man would fall asleep.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, taking everything they can.
What can you do?
You can't?
You go to the police.
What would you do with a ladythere?
You go to the police.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, but what was he doing with a lady there?
Do you aware that there arestill some hotels that don't let
ladyboys inside?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And some clubs, especially one club that we are
talking against Juju.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That will not let ladyboys anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I've not been in because back last year yeah, was
it last year they did exactlythe same thing for about a month
, two months, and then suddenlythey started ladyboys back in
there, but now they now.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I haven't set foot in the place yeah, we decided as a
group we are not showing thereanymore.
I think it's not fair.
It's not fair for us, thecustomers, it's not fair for the
ladyboys themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And then when they sit back, like stop ladyboys
saying, oh, a ladyboy can go inwith a customer.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I remember I went in I was still in there one night
from Delirious and a lady boy inthere said oh John, can I come
with you to get in?
I said no problem.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I've known her a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
We get up to the door .
He searches me.
He says you're not coming in.
I said she's with me.
No, she's not coming in.
Really's with me.
No, she's not coming in, evenwith customers so now like that
would not let her in thenightclubs.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Always had some nightclubs that were like that,
but there are still hotels thatdon't let ladies in, and some of
them actually, and there wassome hotel when you went back,
took a lady back, they wouldcharge you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
You would have to pay for a lady to go to.
It's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I haven't seen that for a long time.
Now, every time they know youhave one friend, you can bring
him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
As is.
Yeah, because before, is thishow many?
How do you say, like you hadexperience with the ladyboys,
the money, something like that?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, anything like bad happened to you with
ladyboys before.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Like you've been drugged or all those things no
no, no, oh nothing I hear likefor me on this time.
I hear some about like guystill ladyboy, or lady also I
had.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
A guy still from them .
Yeah, yeah, like I'm going tosay, I had one time what do you
mean A guy steal from?
Them.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to say Ihad one time, Okay, so that time
it is from the bar I can calllike a short time.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay, my pocket is have like 2005.
Wait, let me me understand.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You go to showtime with the guy, yeah you have
money yeah, in my pocket is twothousand five, and then I had
time and firstly for taking that.
Then I wake up, I look at mypocket is to have a, yeah, but
that guy gave me like for 1,500.
And I feel like they doesn'tsell but they, you know, like
(24:10):
yeah, they didn't pay you.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, they did not pay me.
It's still a steal, yeah, yeah,obviously it's still a steal,
right?
Yeah, yeah, they stole yourmoney and they paid you with
your own money.
Yeah, what you did about that.
So?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
so I'm I did not not do that because I'm just, you
know, like short time and had toget rushed to go back to the
bar, yeah and then and then, Ijust you know like realized like
he not pay for me, he just takemy money.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, next time something like this happen, tell
John he used to be a hitman.
Drag the guy and kill him.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
No more it was only three.
Three days ago my good friend Idrink with down the bar here.
He went to a bar Near walkingstreet, went to see a lady he
knows been with her many timesbefore Three days ago.
He take her back to his place,his room.
(25:11):
He fell asleep.
Yeah, no, sorry.
He went to the bathroom.
He obviously done what he done.
He went to the bathroom.
He obviously don't know what hedone.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
He went to the bathroom, so he didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Went to the bathroom, come back and she said, oh, I'm
going to go now.
And he thought, oh, she hasn'tasked for no money.
Yeah, right, so she goes.
He goes to bed.
He goes to sleep, wakes up inthe morning, goes, goes to bed.
He goes to sleep, wakes up inthe morning, goes to his bag,
looks at his wallet two and ahalf thousand baht been taken.
(25:47):
And he thought, oh, that wasn'tfree then.
Yeah, she literally helpedherself and went.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, and that was only three days ago.
Yeah, but I rarely like.
Okay, I will rephrase it.
I heard many, many stories okay, I will rephrase it.
I heard many, many stories okay, but I don't know anyone that
that happened to him, stuff likethat.
I don't know anyone that had aproblem with ladyboys or ladies.
This is the first time I knowit's still not first-hand right,
(26:16):
it's third-hand that a story,that something like that
happened.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But normally it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Like it's very safe here in general.
As long as you're not beingstupid, nothing wrong will
happen to you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, he's seen her .
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm not saying he was stupid.
I'm not saying he was stupid.
He's seen her again.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I had a word with her and said, look, you took, and
she agreed she said yeah, and hemade her, you know, in front of
her friends made her look a bitlike that, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Oh, they can be raging sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, he made it known that she'd taken.
You know, even her friends madeit known to her friends that
she'd just taken it.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
But, as I said, it's fucked up.
I agree, but it happens on, soit's very rare for something
like that to happen Most of thegirls.
You Girls and ladyboys, itdoesn't matter.
You decide in the pricebeforehand.
They know how much you get.
Everything is already settled.
You know what you're going todo, not going to do, and that's
(27:21):
it.
And also, no one, like no one,steals phones anymore and stuff
like that, because it's veryeasy to track right.
So yes, yes Money it isdangerous.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, so back to about your life.
Is your girlfriend, ladyboygirlfriend?
And get back.
I want to know how long withladyboy oh, the first ladyboy
you met how long you stayed?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
with her oh maybe about a year and a half we were
together and then it just fadesoff.
It happens sometimes Maybeabout a year and a half we were
together or something like that,and then it just fades off.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, this happens sometimes.
Yeah, it's not even a breakup.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You're just far from each other Because obviously I
was living back in the UK.
She's over here working and itjust got.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Are you the jealous type Like?
Are you the jealous type like?
Are you the jealous type whenyou're back home and she's here
and you know what she's workingon?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
at first, yeah, because I was always thinking
she's working, she's going to bewith another man, she's going
to be with many other men, many,many and I feel.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I understand that feeling.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I try and ring her up and she wouldn't answer.
I feel she's with a man.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And how did you walk it out yourself to decide to
okay, I will not give a fuckanymore.
Yeah.
You just one day woke up andsaid that's it, I'm not thinking
about it.
You can't you know.
That's the and said that's it,you can't you know, that's the
most, that's the job you justcan't.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I used to, but not now many years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I think it's part of getting the sense of the game in
Pataya.
The game is they're walking youwant them to stop walking, you
have to pay.
You don't pay them?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, but I think even if you buy a girl or a
ladyboy out of the bar, unlessyou live here and she's living
with you if you're living backin your own country, you don't
know what she's doing.
You'll pay, I don't know, tobuy a mat in a bar.
(29:45):
Yeah, I don't know, 10,000,15,000, 20,000 baht.
And then, right, you go homeand then you've still got a
sense of like 20,000 baht, baht,30,000 baht, a month.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I know I will not say who, but I know guys, and you
know some guys also that eventhey are staying in Thailand and
they put the girl out.
The girl is still fuckingaround.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Of course, of course for that I'm gonna say I'm not
in the way like that, but I knowwho who did Fucking around and
have boyfriend Okay, when he'shere, when he's Back home or
here Back home, okay, but.
For me.
(30:31):
I think that it's not reallyNice to do If you, if you were
with someone For being like Agirlfriend, a boyfriend.
I'm.
I'm Totally thinking about this.
It's not nice to do if I haveboyfriend and I'm with men
(30:52):
around.
So that is not nice if you, ifit's a depends on like you, have
to try in each order but if,like you trust in in her, but
her did that.
So, yeah, totally is this, yeah, is this?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
yeah, right to I agree, but there is one point we
are missing, and that point isthat when you take a girl out of
the bar right and you even payher money, yeah you go back home
.
She's working in the bar.
Before she was in a party mode,right Party, getting money,
drinking, getting drunk,sometimes even doing drugs.
(31:28):
And then when you take them outof the bar, it's boring for
them, for some of them, and itgets really, really boring for
them Because what do you askthem Okay, go back home to your
hometown yeah, that's boring.
Or stay in Pattaya.
You ask them okay, go back hometo your hometown, that's going.
Or stay in Pattaya, that'sgoing, also if you're not
working.
So how can you expect them notto do stuff like that?
And when people get drunk, theyget horny, or you know how it
(31:50):
works, we all know how it worksso.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So like is this area important to make sure, like
who's a real person, of coursein every aspect of your life.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
When you choose a partner, you have to make sure
it's the right partner.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Like I always say to my friends, you can take the
lady out of the bar, but you'llnever take the bar out of the
lady.
I hate this phrase.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I think it's bullshit .
I think it's bullshit becauseand I explain why Most of the
ladies and ladyboys that walkthe bars don't really want to
walk the bars.
No, no, no one wants to be aprostitute.
No one wants.
You know, everyone wants tohave a better life.
Of course, when you say the bar, you don't mean the fucking
party, you mean the mentality ofparty girl, right yeah?
(32:38):
That's what you meant.
Yeah, yeah, but we are all.
Even the guys that come hereare party guys, you know.
Can someone hold you down andtell you John, don't party
anymore?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I'm doing whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
So no one can get the bar out of John also.
No, no.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Go both ways.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean, I don't like this phrase because this phrase
makes well people can think.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I don't like this phrase because this phrase make
well people can think that itmeans that all of them are
whores in a whole state of mindand it's bullshit.
It's not that I bet.
If you ask 100 random girls orladyboys that walk the bus, do
you really want to walk here?
99 of them will say no.
Of course not really want towork here.
(33:21):
99 of them will say no.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Of course not have some who really want to be in
the bar, Be in the bar yeah, butfuck for money, no one wants to
really do that.
No one really wants to do that.
You would prefer just to getmoney free.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Why do you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
fuck for it, right?
Yeah, yeah, right right, If itdoesn't work, so he doesn't get
money.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So right, yeah, yeah, right, right, right.
If it doesn't work, so hedoesn't get money.
So this phrase is a bitproblematic.
Yeah, yeah, at the beginning ofthe episode, and now it's the
serious part, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
At the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I said this episode is dedicated to Minnie.
Minnie was your ex-girlfriend,right?
She was a ladyboy.
Can you tell us about her first, how you you met and the whole
progression of that?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
It was one night I walked along Beach Road.
I come up to Soy, 13-1.
I thought I'll check up.
I go up and I go to the.
Is it the Avenue?
The Avenue?
Okay To go and get some coffee.
So I walked up 13-1 and I comeup La Bamba Bar.
(34:22):
Of course, la Bamba Bar.
They was outside.
One said, oh, come on, come on.
I said, look, I'm just going upto here to get some coffee.
So I left.
I said, maybe come back later,go up.
And then that was on theleft-hand side.
On the right-hand side therewas a place called the House.
(34:45):
Lady Boy is outside.
Oh, come on in, come on in.
And I see Minnie.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
How many of us was that?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That would have been six, six years ago.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Okay, something like that 2020, just before COVID
yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That might have been longer than that.
Okay, seven, eight around, okay, yeah, something like that.
Anyway, I didn't know, I justhad a chat.
I said, look, I'm going to chat.
I said, look, I'm gonna go uphere, I'll come back.
I thought so I went up coffee.
I thought I'm gonna go back tothe house, to the house, for
(35:31):
okay.
I went back there and she wasstill there, so I went in and
that was it.
From there we got together.
She spent the rest of theholiday with me.
I flew back home.
How was her English?
Good, she had good English.
Yeah, it was good.
Okay, it was good, becausesometimes the communication is
(35:53):
Enough to get by, okay, and thenI flew back home.
She carried on working.
I come back, she worked in thebar, you know, still in the same
bar you met her family and then, yeah, and then obviously spent
the holiday with her.
I flew back home, come back, Isaid, look, you still want to
(36:17):
work in the bar?
And she went, no, no, no, no,not really.
And I said, well, I'll alwayssort something out when I get
back.
Anyway, I said to her when Igot back to England, I said,
look, don't work in the bar oryou can work, work behind the
bar, don't go with customers.
She said, okay, I'll not gowith customers.
(36:39):
So she carried on workingbehind the bars.
I guess, you had to pay.
You had to pay to help you out,yeah.
And then I come back toThailand.
We went up to Kalasin, met herfamily, stayed with her family,
okay, and that, yeah, and thatwas yeah, so, and that was it.
(37:02):
And we was together for twoyears Must have been two years,
three years, exclusively, yeah.
And then we split up.
Okay, we split up, and that wasit.
We never got back together, butI was still calling her, we're
still speaking on the telephone.
That was it.
We never got back together, butI was still calling, we were
still speaking on the telephoneand that, but we wasn't together
(37:25):
, but she still stayed up in thevillage.
Oh, she never come back.
No, she never, ever come backto Batea.
And then that was it.
And then three, three years ago,I was in the hotel and saw you
book out, just laid on my bedwatching TV.
I get a message come throughfrom a best friend, minigun.
(37:51):
I went, what, minigun?
So I called up.
I said B, what's happened?
She said she was with me lastnight, we were having a drink
and we finished drinking.
She went, she got up, said shealways called her friend, mom.
(38:17):
She said mom, thank you foreverything you've done.
Went home and hung herself.
It's suicide.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
How her.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
She hanged herself.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
With the orb.
Yeah, yeah, she hanged herself.
That is why I got a picture ofme and her pictures on my phone
and that will not go off.
That is why I got a picture ofme and her pictures on my phone
and that will not go off.
That is my.
I see your memory for her.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yes, I get that and it's a terrible thing.
Have you tried to understandwhat happened?
What made her come to thisdecision?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
No, even her friend didn't have no clue, because
they were drinking together.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
They was on a few beers at her house.
The letters had.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And it must have been a.
I mean, if she, if she saidthat to me, I would have thought
thank you for everything you'vedone.
And I've I've been thinking youknow what do you mean by that?
Yeah, what do you mean by that?
Thank you for everything you'vedone.
And then she went home.
(39:37):
That's terrible, and that wasit.
And then, obviously, I wasstill in Thailand and for three,
four days I didn't want to knowanybody.
I just went out to a bar and Iwould drink and drink and drink
until I was Completely pissed.
Yeah, and even now, when afriend goes back to the village,
(39:58):
a friend, she will go to hermom and dad's house.
She would video call me and Iwould see her mom and dad.
Her mom would start crying, Iwould start crying.
She couldn't speak no English,she had to translate you both
love the same person and yeah, Ithink next year I should go up
(40:21):
to Calisthen for the memorial.
They do that after four years,right, is it four?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
years or five.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I thought it's about like five.
I think After five years Ithink it might be five.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
But you can go anyway .
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I'll go out with a friend.
It will be very emotional.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
It will be, but I think it can also be very
releasing sometimes to go thereand to know that you keep the
good things, you know the goodmemories and you still let her
memory live on with you with thepicture, with this podcast,
with you explaining and talkingabout it.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I helped her family out with the picture, with this
podcast, with you explaining andtalking about it.
I mean, I helped her family outwith the funeral.
I sent the money.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I said, look, you're not paying for nothing, I'm
sending you the money foreverything, for the for
everything you know, becauseeven though we weren't together,
I still loved her, of course,so I kind of know, like that
time, how long you were separatewith her, and then you were,
(41:35):
how long?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
It was only, probably only about a year, Year after
yeah, it was only about a year.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And other years that didn't happen, yeah yeah, and
then.
I'm sorry to hear about it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, it's a terrible story, but we all know that and
this is something that this isthe reason I wanted to do this
episode, because no one is evertalking about the suicide rates
of ladyboys, especially inBrazil and it's crazy, it's
crazy, crazy.
So I did some research andthere is no definite number.
(42:17):
There is no definite number forthat, but I did a research and
you find this normally.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I will tell you the, the older ladyboys.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So it's like that 27% Between 21 and 27% of the
ladyboys in Pattaya reportedthat they tried to commit
suicide.
Okay, so we are already talkingone in four.
Okay, now the numbers say thatsomewhere between 16 and 7% of
(42:50):
them were successful.
Now, these numbers are true to2019.
So it might went down or mightwent up.
Only 10% of them got any mentalhealth like consolation and
stuff like that.
No one is helping them.
(43:11):
Not because they are ladyboys,because in Thailand, when all
the psychologists andpsychiatrists the Thais don't
really believe in that, theydon't really go to see a
psychologist or psychiatrist andlike that.
So this is in thailand.
In the us, they say that it's40 percent suicide attempts
(43:32):
reported by the uh, by thecommunity, not by the hospitals.
So it might be a low, lowernumber, because some people I'm
not saying that, okay, I willnot say that because it's
horrible, but not everyone thatsaid that he tried to commit
suicide really did it.
Sometimes they do it say it forother reasons.
Yeah, now, by the way, in theAsian region, thailand have the
(43:57):
most suicide rate of all theother nations here in 2019.
It's not only ladyboys.
It was 6.64, ok of so a percent, right, but we are talking
about, from 100,000 people underthe age of 30, 6.64.
(44:21):
It's crazy.
It's crazy numbers.
Ok, and the last information Igot that there is a suicide
attempt in Thailand every 10minutes.
Now, this is not only forladyboys, but the ladyboys
numbers are much higher.
They are more double than therest of the other communities.
Yeah, yeah, and I want to know,pim, what?
(44:43):
Because you are a ladyboy andyou know many ladyboys, why do
you think many ladyboys havesuicide thoughts and maybe try
sometimes to do something aboutit?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Oh.
So I cannot say in the way Ihad and I probably want to do
that before want to finish mylife, because I'm, you know,
when we begin is very hard tolet everyone trust in us about
(45:19):
like you're gonna be a goodadult in this, this world, or in
the way like good forcommunities.
So it's just like you are alady boy and you know you are
like a man, but it's a way, likeyou know, in the future you
(45:40):
doesn't have any children, or,yeah, you can adopt if you want.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I'm a big believer in adoption but use the money also
.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You know, like for have baby ladies make baby for
you.
Like take your sperm and takecare of baby for you.
But it's used money a lot yeah,yeah it's like you know your
life, it's just about like forlittle boy is important about
(46:16):
lovers and about happiness,because we know in, yeah, but
it's very general Everyone caresabout their love, life and
happiness.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I think there is something more deeply rooted
that causes more ladyboys to tryat least to commit suicide,
because online I read anotherfact that was interesting, that
almost 40% of the successfulsuicides were because the
ladyboys discovered they haveHIV 40%.
(46:50):
It's crazy.
That's also part of that.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I'm going to say about.
You know, before they calledladyboys like a lover loser.
It's about like I'm not justabout like it's I'm not.
I'm not just about like ladyboywith fun you know, some ladyboy
.
Thai ladyboy like Thai man likea most of them.
(47:15):
Most of them are Thai man, butyeah it is about like the love,
it's not complicated, like I'mnot not going.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Well, they lose feeling you think many ladies
don't get into seriousrelationship because they are
ladyboys, so many men don't takethem seriously.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, yeah seriously the most.
It doesn't make openrelationship and that is a hurt
to lady boy because like theyalways be the last choice for
for love.
You know, like gay, with gay isthis okay because the gay is
like the gay only like men andthe gay only like men, ladies
(47:56):
lesbian and men with women, butabout lady boy.
You know what I mean so youit's.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It cannot be a gay man, because gay men like men so
it has to be somewhere betweenstraight and gay that can be
with a ladyboy, so it's alreadya narrow yeah option.
Right, it's like and?
And many people considerladyboy as fetish, not as people
.
Do you know that that manypeople look at ladyboys?
Speaker 2 (48:22):
and they say, oh, that's my fetish.
They don't see a person in aphoto.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
That's also a problem .
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I see it's like it depends on the person also.
If they have a positive vibe intheir life, they're not going
to do like that.
But I have like a bad vibebefore I'm not talking, I'm not
gonna talking about that.
But yeah, it's just easy tohappen if you're very hurt in
(48:54):
that part and you doesn't knowwhat is gonna going on next.
So the last part is likenormally more young people
commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I think it's due to the fact that young people tend
to think that everything is sodramatic, Like I had a breakup
with this boyfriend oh, my lifeends now.
You know, and when you get abit older you take things less,
not less, seriously, but youknow how to cut the edge off of
things.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
So I want to know that about Ladyboy.
Is Ladyboy a girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Minnie.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Minnie.
Okay, sorry, minnie, you're thefirst love for her.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Like real boyfriend, have she had?
Real boyfriends before no no,she hadn't.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
No no.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
You're her first serious boyfriend.
I would say yeah, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Because she'd always worked in in the bar so I gotta
say that is pretty, make me sureabout that.
Why her um finish, finish herlife.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I don't think it's because of that.
I think because other reasonthey decided to finish.
Yeah, you don't know what'sgoing on.
When she went in the village.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah but it doesn't mean I'm going to say it's your
fault, of course it's not hisfault.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah, it's like no because we were still talking
sometimes I was still helpingher, sending her a little bit of
money you still had a lot oflove in your heart for her yeah,
because she ring me or call me.
You know video call me.
Look, can you send me £50?
(50:36):
Or two, three thousand a month?
I'd say, yeah, no problem, noproblem, you know, I know she
wanted him.
I don't know what she was doing, whether she was drinking too
much, whether she was takinganything.
Was she a drinker?
You?
(50:57):
knew her as one no we'd go outto a bar and she'd go.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, she's not like our mutual friend, right?
No, oh no.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
No, nothing like that .
But I don't know, because whenI wasn't in the village she was
seeing her friends, Maybe everyday they'd go and drink.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I don't know, I think the exact reason doesn't matter
.
It matters more that us as acommunity I'm not talking any
specific community, I mean as ahuman community sometimes we
don't see the signs andsometimes we even push people
towards that and it's horriblebecause sometimes all people
(51:42):
something very small will makepeople not do that.
Like the right word at theright time.
Or a hug, you know, just asimple hug, when you see your
friend is a bit down and you say, hey, you okay, everything is
okay.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
What happened?
Can you tell me?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
That can solve anything.
But we as a society we fuckedup.
We are so self-centered and weonly look at ourselves.
We cannot see other peopleanymore, and that's a shame,
because this is the guilt forall the suicides that happen is
(52:16):
our guilt as a community.
It doesn't supposed to be likethat.
We are supposed to be a safetynet for the people that on a
verge of losing hope or stufflike that.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
It's like I've had friends back in the UK who have
gone out and committed suicide.
I think why do you talk?
The thing is with us men.
We don't like to talk about it.
We don't like to.
If you're feeling down, youjust keep quiet.
Yeah, and that's the problem.
(52:49):
That's why there's a bigsuicide rate for men, like in
the UK or all around the world.
All around the world, yeah, mencommit more suicide Because men
don't want to talk to someone.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Have you seen the?
I forgot his name.
You know the.
I don't know where he's from,but he has like british or irish
accent.
I don't know the.
The mma fighter, p p p pindle.
You know who I'm talking about,with the blonde hair that goes
like that.
Do you follow mma?
(53:20):
Yes, you know, oh no paddy, thepaddy yeah from liverpool.
Yeah, have you seen what hetalked about men health because
his best friend it was one ofthe best speeches I ever heard
into a men health, a men mentalhealth.
When you are feeling bad, lookfor help.
Find your best friend, findsomeone that you can trust and
(53:42):
tell him listen, buddy, I'mfeeling down.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
I need your help.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That was his best friend yeah, someone that you
can trust, and tell him listen,buddy, I'm feeling down, I need
your help.
Yeah, and that was an amazingspeech and he didn't know.
He didn't know Because hisright friend didn't talk to him.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And sometimes you just need one word, and we as
good friends and we as a society, need to be very aware to those
moments when people asksincerely hey, buddy, I need you
there now.
Can you come, stay with me?
Can you, let's go?
I need to.
I want to grab a beer.
Can you come with me?
Speaker 2 (54:12):
yeah, yeah, you know something that they will not say
it's hard for them, they justneed the company just yes,
something out of the soul youknow I gotta say about me okay
in in the way like that time herjust you know like finished
drinking with friend and thenlike that yeah, she said to her
(54:32):
best friend she finisheddrinking and you help her also.
So I can't say in the way, likeyou have everything, but look on
that, like it doesn't make herhappy.
You know, like it's everything,yeah, but in your mind you're
(54:54):
opening.
You think that is not yourhappiness.
But for other people, see, isthis, oh, this is good to happen
to you, but you think I'm yeah,but everyone's consider
happiness.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah.
For example, he might considerstuff that make him happy by
winning that competition.
Yeah, and for me it's just.
Or for people that don't havelegs or whatever, just.
Oh, I was able to go to thebathroom by myself.
You know, happiness is verydifferent, yeah so about her?
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I think maybe he just needs to stay yes, just tired,
and needs to not be in this life.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
I mean, she must have known.
Well, she knew she was going togo do it.
That's why she said goodbye toher best friend, so she knew she
was going to go home.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, I don't really want to dive into the reasons of
health, because it's health,it's health thing, and it's not
our to discover it, right, but Ido think, and I want this our
to discover it.
but I do think, and I want thisconversation to be more around
how we can help people in thissituation and especially about
(56:15):
and this is why I think yourinput is very important, pim
about why it's more common inthe ladyboy community why they
are committing more suicide.
Is it drug related?
Is it disease related, like ajv?
Is it money related?
Or is it love related, as yousaid before?
Speaker 2 (56:37):
so I'm gonna say to not only ladyboy, but to people,
everyone who hear this podcastand I need to share to your
friend who you love, family orwhatever, please do not give up
(56:59):
in your life, keep going, yeah,do on your own, your own way,
and keep going your journeybecause your destiny will, maybe
your life, in one day gonna besuccessful for you.
And you gotta, you gotta likeyeah, I, I did it, I I make my
(57:22):
life, you know, be in what youthink you know, then you get.
I kind of say, keep going.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
And ask for help this is the most important Ask for
help If you're feeling down.
Go to someone that you trust,someone that you love, someone
that you know that loves youback and just say to them hey
buddy, hey sister, hey brother,it doesn't matter, I need you
now.
I need you to be with me,because I'm about to do
something that I'm not sure I'mhappy with and I need a hug.
(58:00):
I need a friend.
I need to take a load off mysoul.
I need a friend.
I need to take a load of mysoul.
I need to take, I need toscream.
Sometimes I just need to fuckingscream as loud as I can, and I
want someone to hear me scream.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
And please people.
Please people, being human,like if someone needs help, you
just help, just help them, youknow, just help and do your best
.
Speaker 3 (58:27):
It doesn't cost nothing to ask for help it
doesn't cost nothing.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
No, no, because you help someone who doesn't care
about anything, just you know.
Yeah, make people be happy.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
John, in your opinion , what do you think?
Not about me, we are talking ingeneral.
What do you think that?
Why do you think that thatcommunity suffers more from
suicide attempts?
I know it's hard to guess, butyeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:06):
Not like you say, hiv .
Speaker 1 (59:10):
But it's so treatable right now, you know, you just
take one tablet every day.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Now it is.
Now it is.
I take PrEP every day yeah, toavoid it.
I take PrEP every day yeah, toavoid it.
But even ifEP every day, yeah,to avoid it.
But even if someone got HIV,they still have to take one
tablet every day.
Many years ago that did notexist.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah, they used to be the cofters.
You remember the 20 tablets?
Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, so I know a few ladyboys who have passed away.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
I know many that are sick right now, and it's okay.
They just take one tablet everyday and they cannot even
transmit it anymore to anyone no, no, no, so it's AJV.
You agree with her?
Speaker 3 (59:53):
I think, I think a lot.
It's like you get a lot ofolder ladyboys because men just
want the younger ones, so theolder ones are being left out.
And then they think what's freeworking?
They go back to their village,they go back to wherever and
(01:00:14):
they think I've got nothing.
And then, yeah, what do I wantto be on this planet for?
And then go on yeah, but I,what do I want to be on this
planet for?
And they go on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, but I don't think they wanted to be on the
planet for people to pay forthem.
No, no, no, of course, ofcourse, it's something that they
and I'm not saying that theyare stupid, but it's something
that you have to plan ahead,right, what I will do when I'm
40, let's say, as a ladyboy, andI start losing my hair and I'm
not as attractive as before,right?
(01:00:42):
what will I do then?
So we know some ladyboys thatare in their 50s.
I will not name.
I will not name her, but youknow that she's a very
successful business owner thatowns several bars.
Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
You know who I'm talking about in.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Soi 7.
Now you know who I'm talkingabout.
So, she's very successful.
She's been in the scene formany years.
Yes, and there is no problem ifyou are, if you play the hand.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Right, yeah, it's just.
I want everyone, every ladyboy,please, looking on, like, make
them be like a role model foryourself and and make your self
keep going, get better, likeokay, this lady boy she are
(01:01:33):
successful with life and and I.
In the one day I would be likeher.
But yes, we cannot be the samelike her you don't want to be,
because she has a lot of cocksto get where she is she came to
this one, but there are othersthat I know that are successful
but we can show the way, we canbegin, like who you are, role
(01:02:00):
model, and it's a much more,more and better, more than you
doesn't have any hope.
You know like make hope betterthan hope, yeah give hope
doesn't yeah doesn't causeanything, you know, and much
more better than doesn't haveany hope Do you also think it's
(01:02:20):
love related, as she said?
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
You think there is a thing that sometimes you just
feel well, I will die alone, noone loves me, I cannot find my
soulmate.
That's also a possibility.
Yeah, I saw another researchand I don't know how connected
it is, but I know that theladyboy community especially.
(01:02:46):
There are more drug users inthat community than any other
community in Thailand.
Okay, do you think that canmaybe be part of it?
Yeah, maybe, because we are nottalking about weed, right?
We are talking aboutmind-altering drugs like ice
like Yaba, which is fuckingcrazy today.
(01:03:08):
Yes, and it can alter yourthinking.
It can make you depressedsometimes.
And, for example, Yaba ifpeople take Yaba, they can
sometimes not sleep three days,four days.
Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
They get crazy Even now you go on the news, it's not
just ladyboy or ladies likefrom Thailand.
As you get from Russia, you getfrom Germany.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
But about those.
It's a bit different.
And then they find that they'vegot drugs.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Yeah, oh you mean the drugged ones?
The drugged ones, they thinkthey can fly, so they jumped in
from a 13 foot long.
Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
You're right.
But in Pattaya there is anotherthing and you know I think you
know what I'm talking about.
Some men come here at the late50s, 60s, spend all their money
and when their money gone theyjust commit suicide.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
This is also.
It used to be a suicide citybefore.
For all foreigners.
Yes, just be careful in yourlife.
No, it's not about beingcareful.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
This is something else.
Think about what they did.
They came to Pattaya.
They knew they had, let's say,I had $50,000.
When this money finish, I willkill myself.
Because I don't.
And it's not one case or twocases.
There used to be many caseslike that the people spent all
their money and then killedthemselves.
This was their plan, but this issomething that I can.
(01:04:28):
Okay, I will do that in quotes.
I can respect more because itwas planned and they did it
because they don't want to workanymore.
They felt that they are oldenough to end it.
Just please don't jump frombuildings and meet someone else.
Find other ways to do that right.
But this I can get.
But young men, ladies, ladyboys, it doesn't matter.
(01:04:51):
This always just seek for help.
And before I finish thisepisode, I want to again, now I
found it.
I want to again, now I found it.
I want to read the words thatPaddy said.
Paddy the MMA fighter becauseit's so amazing.
So he said there is a stigma inthe world that men can't talk.
(01:05:12):
Listen, if you are a man andyou've got weight on your
shoulders and you think the onlyway you can solve it is by
killing yourself, please speakto someone.
Speak to anyone.
I'd I known, I'd rather I Iknow, I'd rather my mate cry on
my shoulder than go to hisfuneral next week.
Yeah, that's amazing.
(01:05:33):
This is, I think, summarizeeverything that we talked today.
Just when you feel down, whenyou think you feel on the verge,
just go talk to someone, anyone.
It can be even a stranger,sometimes.
Even that it can help.
If you shy about those feelings.
You can find a random strangerin a bar or whatever and just
(01:05:54):
say listen, buddy, I'm feelingdown today.
Can you have a drink with me?
yeah, make sure yeah, theircompany yeah that can change the
whole state of mind.
Yeah, yeah, john, I want tothank you, yeah.
I think, we can talk more andmore about this subject, but I
(01:06:15):
think I prefer to keep it verysummarized because I don't want
to go into the.
I don't like the statistic andall this stuff.
I brought it just to show howhigh it is.
But, as I said, it happens andit sucks that this happens and I
wish it would not happen.
Yeah, and that's it, and thankyou, john, for being our guest
(01:06:36):
and thank you for sharing yourstory, because I know how
emotional it is for you and Ilove your body really and I hope
maybe on some other episode wecan talk about more happy stuff.
So thank you very much.
Thank you very much for havingme.
No problem, pim, do you haveanything to say?
Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
yeah to the listener.
Thank you so much for listeninguntil now.
I hope you guys get somethingto use in your life and share
this podcast Share this podcast,this episode especially, yeah,
especially, share it around.
Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
I think maybe it can also help someone.
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yeah and thank you, john, for sharing your
experience, your stories.
Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Thank you, I'm very proud about like you can keep
going in your life and youdoesn't give up to to find
happiness no, no, it doesn'tthank you so much thank you
again, thank you to ourlisteners and this episode I
will not say the normal stuffthat I say, so we just love you
and thank you for listening.
(01:07:47):
Yeah, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Bye-bye, bye-bye.
This episode is dedicated to Mini.
Hello everyone and welcome backto my Thai Wife Podcast.
I'm Mike and sadly I'm stilldoing this without my lovely,
lovely wife Shunari.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Hi, I'm Pim, Nice to see you again.
Welcome back to my Thai WifePodcast.
How are you, pim?
I'm doing good.
How about you?
Always good, yeah, always good.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
And we have a very special guest, a very close
friend of mine.
Again, I don't know him forthat long, but we became very
good friends recently.
And hello, john, how are you?
Hello, I'm fine, great tofinally have you here.
Thank you for having me.
I waited for that for at leasta few weeks.
Thank you for having me, and Ithink it's going to be a very
(00:49):
interesting and emotionalpodcast.
It certainly will be.
Yeah, but first can we hearyour journey, how you came to
Pattaya, and I know, I know nowyou stay here for 17 years how I
come to prepare.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
First time was 24 years ago.
Okay, me and my good friendSteve from England, once a year
we used to go to a travel agentsee where we're going to go.
Yeah, I just book up.
We've been all around the worldMexico, barbados, ibiza,
everywhere.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
So all the main party cities.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, it was 24 years ago.
Two friends of mine back inEngland come over to Thailand
for the first time.
Okay, they come back.
We met up with them for a beerand they said get yourself to
Thailand.
And that was it so for a beer.
And they said get yourself toThailand.
And that was it so for 24 years.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
And in the last 14 months 14?
.
Oh, I thought it was 17 months,14.
Okay 14 months, I've beendecided to move to Pattaya, okay
.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
And when the first time you came to Thailand you
went straight to Pattaya, orfirst you to Thailand you went
straight to Pattaya, or firstyou yeah went straight to
Pattaya okay yep, so you're oneof the smart guys.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Stayed in a hotel on Beach Road called the.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Montiel, okay, so you've come in here for a long
time.
Have you seen anything changethrough the years.
I'm not mean how the city looks, I'm all mean about the
attitude.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
No, it's all the I find it all the same Thai people
are so friendly and welcoming,yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
The food is great.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
The Thai food is the best.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, as long as you can eat spicy food I can eat
very spicy.
Oh, my God, I think we need todo a competition one day, me and
you.
Oh, maybe, I think maybe youwin.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I'll lose she.
We need to do a competition oneday, me and you.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Oh, baby, I think maybe you win she's one of the
broken ties, you know.
The other day we had somedinner and I knew she cannot eat
spicy, so I ordered especiallythe som tam.
For me it's spicy isan som tamwith the crab and the fermented
fish, and for her just somebarbecues.
(03:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
I just taste this little bit of papaya salad, yeah
, so then I'm like I've gotspicy, so then stop.
I was like you think you'd likea man, man.
But I know you can't, I knowyou can't do that.
You can't take spicy Thai ladynot take spicy.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Thai lady don't like spicy yeah but she likes spicy
men, oh yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
That makes up for it, correct.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
So what made you decide to?
Okay, fuck it, I want to livehere, like I know you're not a
young man anymore, right, you'rein your 50s, I guess 59.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Oh, 60 days, 60 days a year.
Okay, oh, 60 this year.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Okay, yeah, this is why you said fuck it.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
I want to know I've wanted because I was married to
a Thai girl.
Okay, I first met her.
The second year I come toThailand.
Well, I met her the first year,but only in a bar.
Second year I come, we gottogether and that was it and I'm
(04:10):
an awesome you've been together, how many years you've been
married to.
Seven years, seven yearsbecause we, yeah.
And then we got together, likeback to England, back to
Thailand.
She went to England in the endwe got our visa, went to Bangkok
to the British Embassy, I hadan interview and she come back
(04:34):
to England for us on a six-monthvisa, but in within that six
months.
We got married.
So and then she got themarriage visa, so she got
permanent leave to remain in andto work.
So for the first six months shecouldn't work.
I had the same.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
I had the same experience with my yeah, my wife
.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
So, as soon as she flew to england, she said john,
I want.
So she said I want to go tocollege learn more english.
English, okay, because when Ifirst met her her English was
that, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, yeah, hello, well, the people, I can't get
all of you to know.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Very, very, very so she was willing to go to college
, learn.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And as soon as she got the visa to stay in England
permanent, she got a job.
I got her a job like a job,okay, okay.
And then you have seven.
After seven years, we, yeah,she's on together.
No, no, no, no, no.
She already had two children,okay, yeah.
And we had a house built up innear Udon Thani okay yeah, and
(05:44):
eventually just decided yeah,and then we just parted ways.
After seven years she's still inEngland.
She's as far as I know.
I have no contact with her nowoh, was it a bad breakup?
Speaker 1 (05:57):
was it a bad breakup?
No, no, not really.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
No, it's like a separate and yeah, get life here
my life and separate.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, you saw.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
So you thought to yourself okay, now I'm single,
I'm going to make the samemistakes over again.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
We had too many mistakes in life.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
And then when I decided to move out here, well,
I wanted to move a few years ago, but I lost my mom 15, 16 years
ago, okay, and so I moved inwith my dad and I said to my
family I said look, when thatdies, I'm moving.
(06:40):
Okay, you tie that so that thatwas four years ago.
This year my dad passed away.
How old was he?
88.
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Okay, that's a good age.
Yeah, okay.
Then you just said you waitedtwo years.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I waited two years, because we waited two years and
then Okay, so because we soldthe house and everything.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
But you still kept on coming here every year.
Yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, still kept coming over.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
For like your holiday .
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, I'd come over for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Oh, three weeks.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Yeah normally three weeks in April and then again in
October.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Okay, I see Three weeks is a good amount of time.
It's not too much that you feellike overwhelmed, and it's not…
Too short?
Yeah, too short that you feel.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
oh, I haven't did all I wanted.
Three weeks is the sweet spot,I think.
Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty goodholiday.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Yeah, sometimes two weeks, because well, I've been
over here for two weeks beforeand I think I could do with
another week.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Yeah, it's not enough .
It's not good enough.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Then before you come over for say a month and
anything, I'm skiing too muchnow because you're out every
night.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Yeah, I see, and I know I asked this before, but,
like, of course, many thingshave changed in Pattaya and
Thailand in the recent 20 years.
One of the things that changesis the prices, right?
So I guess 24 years ago youused to bring only, let's say,
1,000 pounds and just give anexample.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Now we have to bring double that 20-something years
years ago, when I first camehere, I was getting 80 baht to 1
pound.
Now it's 44, so nearly almosthalf.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Ok.
I remember the 20 expats whenit went below 5 they were raging
like yeah, yeah so yeah, it'shard for them.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I hear like, I hear like, uh, before it's just like
if who had a boyfriend fromanother country, like a foreign
man, you know, then they, theygotta look like very, very rich.
Because I'm for.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The rate was very.
Yeah, the rate yeah, it wasbetter.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
And they like make house easy yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I say my house I had built up near Udon's.
That cost me about £13,000, 20.
Which is 20 years ago.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Which is nothing, 21, 22 years ago, and I guess it's
a proper house.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
It's four bedrooms, yeah, two en-suite.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
With the land, with everything.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
No, was she on the land.
My old wife already had theland, Okay what her uncle gave
to her.
So luckily enough, we didn'thave to buy the land.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Okay and well, I met you at our mutual friend's bar,
which I cannot say his name dueto his request, but we are
talking about Delirious Bar,which is a very known, if not
the most known, ladyboy bar in.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Pattaya Certainly is.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
So when you started, like Ladyboys.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
It would be eight years ago.
I was staying down in Suite Ain a hotel.
In Suite A Me and my friend wecome out of the hotel to go to a
bar down Beach Road and when wewalked out there was a girl
pulled up on a motorbike.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We talked about the Flipper Lodge.
Yes, of course the FlipperLodge, of course the Flipper
Lodge.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
Anyway, there was a bar opposite called the Beehive
Bar Okay, which is not there nomore, it's been knocked down.
We come out of there and a girlwas just parking her motorbike
up and she said, oh, you want ataxi.
I went no, no, no, we're justgoing to a bar down here.
And then we get to the bar.
I said to my friend, I saidwhat a beautiful lady.
(10:53):
I said we'll have a few drinkshere and we go back to that bar,
okay, and that was it, and Ididn't realize it.
She was amazing Because we onlyhad a little interaction for a
minute, as we both can you knowlike how look beauty from
ladyboy that time, but now howdifferent oh, that's a good
(11:15):
question if the style changedyeah, like at that time, is it
have a lot of feminin more thanthis time?
Yeah now a lot, a lot prettierBecause of the surgeries, I
think because of surgery,surgery and stuff, yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (11:34):
Because, as you said before, it was more like
feminine boys, right, yeah, yes,yes, like I don't want to say
femboys because it's cringe, butyou know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Yeah, yeah yeah, yeah , yeah, certainly, yeah, okay,
yeah so now everyone just gettheir tits that was it we.
I spent the rest of my holidaywith her, and do you have any
thoughts about what am I?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
doing, or it was just natural for you.
You liked her, you don't care aperson.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Okay, I think that's the way to look at it, right,
it's a person, it doesn't meananything about you or about her.
Okay, and the next time youjust said no more woman Like
that.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
how long, how long do you spend time in her?
The rest of the holiday.
Yeah, the rest of the holiday.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I flew back home and now I think the next year I come
out.
We still contact each otherevery day and I went back.
We went up to Sarin.
She was from.
Sarin, so we went up to see herfamily for a week and then come
(12:42):
back to Pattaya for a week.
I flew back home and then comeback to Pattaya for a week.
I flew back home and then lateron that year come back over
here, borrowed a brother's car.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
We drove to Surin, spent time with the family it's
like a close together, like afamily you've not been like in a
relationship like boyfriend andgirlfriend, right, yeah, and
how like your friends reacted tothat.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
Oh, they don't give a fuck.
No, they with you.
I used to get a bit of a youknow a bit of a bite, you know,
not massively you know because?
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, but now in Pattaya it's so open no one
really cares about anythinganymore.
Like the other day we just wentto the same bar, Delirious, and
there were like two guys liketalking between them who love
coke more, you know.
Oh, I love it.
I want to get it down as well.
Now I want to get it up my ass,you know.
And just two 60 or even older,you old guys just competing each
(13:54):
other.
Who like who likes cock more so?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
yeah, you know, no one really use cock, like with
many stuff, like like a mouthass or whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Yeah, A competition, or a friend Guillaume, for
example, every time that hecomes to the bar he just to
ladyboys and he just pretendingto suck both of them.
You know, yeah, that's what'sfun about it, I think.
Also I spoke about before, butI found for myself that, even if
(14:25):
you're not into Lady Boys,right, lady Boys bars are much
more fun than girly bars.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I've got friends I drink with down the bar just
down here.
They're not into Lady Boys, butthey say to me John, are you
going out tonight?
I say, yeah, I.
I go to my friend bar, oh, wecome, and they love it, even
though they're not into ladyboys, but they just like the
(14:53):
environment the environment.
Speaker 1 (14:57):
I think it's much more lively.
It's much more funny it is doyou agree?
Have you went to like girlybars and saw the difference?
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can say it's just totally
different.
Like for ladies, they are muchcare about customer.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So more money-oriented, more money
Money-oriented, okay, moneyoriented and for for lady boy.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
It's just like I'm being there and much they are
doesn't doesn't only for moneywhen, like lady boy they're also
enjoying this.
Yeah, also it's because we, weare, we are have same, uh
similar personal, like ladyboywith ladyboy and we talk each
(15:44):
other.
It's just like doesn't aboutmoney, but much more about yeah,
have fun chatting.
And yeah yeah, like that, so Ican say it's different from from
the way now.
Yeah, but some some place.
Yeah, it's just like some lady.
Befriend is easy, but notmeaningfully yeah like I agree
(16:08):
with that.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yeah, it's more money oriented, I find it.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You go in a lady bar and it's just, I don't know,
boring to me.
Depends on the bar, depends onthe bar.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Some bars are good, but most of them is just the
same thing.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yeah, and if you go to ladyboy bars, every bar is so
different and so like differentcharacters there, you know yeah
, different style yeah, I reallyappreciate it.
I think it's.
This is part of the fun.
By the way, we sit there almostevery day at that bar right yes
, and as you said before, manypeople that even are not into
(16:43):
ladyboys are coming just for theexperience, just for to see it
have a fun, because the ladyboysare shouting and smacking each
other.
You know, it's funny.
It is funny to watch.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It's like something something happened with nonsense
exactly it's nonsense but it isfun.
Yeah, I agree.
So how about, like, when yousee you can't see the bar,
ladyboy bar, and then what is itfor you?
Is it very he likes cock?
I mean how, ladyboy, be to youand then make you feel like, oh,
(17:19):
they are so nice so welcome.
So so welcome most of them, yeahso I can't say like ladyboy
much the most ladyboy they arefriendly.
Yeah, of course, good, ofcourse, cause like for me, I'm
(17:40):
ladyboy, I know how I am, butfor other I know, it's not not
about sexual but it's aboutpersonal yeah, yeah it depends
on personal.
So I'm not saying I can't sayI'm not saying many ladyboy but
because you have differentpersonality, yeah, different
personal.
So yeah, about you guy.
(18:01):
You you know like being manybar many, you see many people,
so yeah that's why she wants toknow if you met someone special
as hell.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
This is what she's asking yeah, like who, pretty
like.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah what it's about they are.
Act like you guys, but before Imean like yeah, 20 years before
, oh you think there was adifference.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
I I don't think there was much difference.
Ladyboys were always ladyboys.
I think it was just a littlebit more close back then it was
uh, very, yes, there wasn't.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
obviously soy bocal has hit it off, yeah, but I
think that soy Bacal obviouslywas there, but I don't think so
many bars or no.
Speaker 1 (18:48):
no, it's in the recent 10 years.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
Very few, well, very few ladyboy bars back then.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I know the old ones.
The famous old ones were LaBamba in Soy 13.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
13 one yes, yeah 13 one.
Soy in sorry, 13?
, 13, yes, the house, the housebar.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
That's where I met Minnie, which we'll speak about
in a short bit.
Yeah, and like I think Well,I'm not sure about it, but I had
friends that used to go toLadyboys bar a few years ago I'm
(19:28):
talking 10 or more and thereused to be a stigma against
Ladyboys that they are stealingmoney, that they are taking
drugs, that they are attackingpeople, and there are still some
stories that you hear about itjust because the media like to
exaggerate everything.
But there used to be a stigmaagainst ladyboys before.
Do you remember that?
(19:53):
I can't be honest, I can't youknow what stories I'm talking
about?
I can't.
People said that ladyboys usedto yeah, yeah, yeah, like on
beach road.
I can't.
So what's the point?
People said that lady was usedto women.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Like on beach road, what they call coconut alley.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
They worked there.
I've heard lots of stories thatthey take a lady boy or even a
lady back to their room or goback to the lady's room.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And they would just drag them and steal everything,
mainly they would go back to theman's room.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Of course, a man would fall asleep.
Thank you, thank you, thank you, taking everything they can.
What can you do?
You can't?
You go to the police.
What would you do with a ladythere?
You go to the police.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, but what was he doing with a lady there?
Do you aware that there arestill some hotels that don't let
ladyboys inside?
Speaker 2 (20:48):
And some clubs, especially one club that we are
talking against Juju.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
That will not let ladyboys anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I've not been in because back last year yeah, was
it last year they did exactlythe same thing for about a month
, two months, and then suddenlythey started ladyboys back in
there, but now they now.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I haven't set foot in the place yeah, we decided as a
group we are not showing thereanymore.
I think it's not fair.
It's not fair for us, thecustomers, it's not fair for the
ladyboys themselves.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
And then when they sit back, like stop ladyboys
saying, oh, a ladyboy can go inwith a customer.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I remember I went in I was still in there one night
from Delirious and a lady boy inthere said oh John, can I come
with you to get in?
I said no problem.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
I've known her a long time.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
We get up to the door .
He searches me.
He says you're not coming in.
I said she's with me.
No, she's not coming in.
Really's with me.
No, she's not coming in, evenwith customers so now like that
would not let her in thenightclubs.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Always had some nightclubs that were like that,
but there are still hotels thatdon't let ladies in, and some of
them actually, and there wassome hotel when you went back,
took a lady back, they wouldcharge you.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
You would have to pay for a lady to go to.
It's a long time ago.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I haven't seen that for a long time.
Now, every time they know youhave one friend, you can bring
him.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
As is.
Yeah, because before, is thishow many?
How do you say, like you hadexperience with the ladyboys,
the money, something like that?
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, anything like bad happened to you with
ladyboys before.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
Like you've been drugged or all those things no
no, no, oh nothing I hear likefor me on this time.
I hear some about like guystill ladyboy, or lady also I
had.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
What do you mean?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
A guy still from them .
Yeah, yeah, like I'm going tosay, I had one time what do you
mean A guy steal from?
Them.
Yeah, yeah, I'm going to say Ihad one time, Okay, so that time
it is from the bar I can calllike a short time.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Okay, my pocket is have like 2005.
Wait, let me me understand.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
You go to showtime with the guy, yeah you have
money yeah, in my pocket is twothousand five, and then I had
time and firstly for taking that.
Then I wake up, I look at mypocket is to have a, yeah, but
that guy gave me like for 1,500.
And I feel like they doesn'tsell but they, you know, like
(24:10):
yeah, they didn't pay you.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, they did not pay me.
It's still a steal, yeah, yeah,obviously it's still a steal,
right?
Yeah, yeah, they stole yourmoney and they paid you with
your own money.
Yeah, what you did about that.
So?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
so I'm I did not not do that because I'm just, you
know, like short time and had toget rushed to go back to the
bar, yeah and then and then, Ijust you know like realized like
he not pay for me, he just takemy money.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Yeah, next time something like this happen, tell
John he used to be a hitman.
Drag the guy and kill him.
Speaker 3 (24:49):
No more it was only three.
Three days ago my good friend Idrink with down the bar here.
He went to a bar Near walkingstreet, went to see a lady he
knows been with her many timesbefore Three days ago.
He take her back to his place,his room.
(25:11):
He fell asleep.
Yeah, no, sorry.
He went to the bathroom.
He obviously done what he done.
He went to the bathroom.
He obviously don't know what hedone.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
He went to the bathroom, so he didn't work out.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Went to the bathroom, come back and she said, oh, I'm
going to go now.
And he thought, oh, she hasn'tasked for no money.
Yeah, right, so she goes.
He goes to bed.
He goes to sleep, wakes up inthe morning, goes, goes to bed.
He goes to sleep, wakes up inthe morning, goes to his bag,
looks at his wallet two and ahalf thousand baht been taken.
(25:47):
And he thought, oh, that wasn'tfree then.
Yeah, she literally helpedherself and went.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Yeah, and that was only three days ago.
Yeah, but I rarely like.
Okay, I will rephrase it.
I heard many, many stories okay, I will rephrase it.
I heard many, many stories okay, but I don't know anyone that
that happened to him, stuff likethat.
I don't know anyone that had aproblem with ladyboys or ladies.
This is the first time I knowit's still not first-hand right,
(26:16):
it's third-hand that a story,that something like that
happened.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
But normally it's very rare.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Like it's very safe here in general.
As long as you're not beingstupid, nothing wrong will
happen to you.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
I mean, he's seen her .
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm not saying he was stupid.
I'm not saying he was stupid.
He's seen her again.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
I had a word with her and said, look, you took, and
she agreed she said yeah, and hemade her, you know, in front of
her friends made her look a bitlike that, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Oh, they can be raging sometimes.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Yeah, he made it known that she'd taken.
You know, even her friends madeit known to her friends that
she'd just taken it.
Speaker 1 (26:59):
But, as I said, it's fucked up.
I agree, but it happens on, soit's very rare for something
like that to happen Most of thegirls.
You Girls and ladyboys, itdoesn't matter.
You decide in the pricebeforehand.
They know how much you get.
Everything is already settled.
You know what you're going todo, not going to do, and that's
(27:21):
it.
And also, no one, like no one,steals phones anymore and stuff
like that, because it's veryeasy to track right.
So yes, yes Money it isdangerous.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, so back to about your life.
Is your girlfriend, ladyboygirlfriend?
And get back.
I want to know how long withladyboy oh, the first ladyboy
you met how long you stayed?
Speaker 3 (27:53):
with her oh maybe about a year and a half we were
together and then it just fadesoff.
It happens sometimes Maybeabout a year and a half we were
together or something like that,and then it just fades off.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, this happens sometimes.
Yeah, it's not even a breakup.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
You're just far from each other Because obviously I
was living back in the UK.
She's over here working and itjust got.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Are you the jealous type Like?
Are you the jealous type like?
Are you the jealous type whenyou're back home and she's here
and you know what she's workingon?
Speaker 3 (28:26):
at first, yeah, because I was always thinking
she's working, she's going to bewith another man, she's going
to be with many other men, many,many and I feel.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I understand that feeling.
Speaker 3 (28:42):
I try and ring her up and she wouldn't answer.
I feel she's with a man.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
And how did you walk it out yourself to decide to
okay, I will not give a fuckanymore.
Yeah.
You just one day woke up andsaid that's it, I'm not thinking
about it.
You can't you know.
That's the and said that's it,you can't you know, that's the
most, that's the job you justcan't.
Speaker 3 (29:08):
I used to, but not now many years ago.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
I think it's part of getting the sense of the game in
Pataya.
The game is they're walking youwant them to stop walking, you
have to pay.
You don't pay them?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
Yeah, but I think even if you buy a girl or a
ladyboy out of the bar, unlessyou live here and she's living
with you if you're living backin your own country, you don't
know what she's doing.
You'll pay, I don't know, tobuy a mat in a bar.
(29:45):
Yeah, I don't know, 10,000,15,000, 20,000 baht.
And then, right, you go homeand then you've still got a
sense of like 20,000 baht, baht,30,000 baht, a month.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
I know I will not say who, but I know guys, and you
know some guys also that eventhey are staying in Thailand and
they put the girl out.
The girl is still fuckingaround.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Of course, of course for that I'm gonna say I'm not
in the way like that, but I knowwho who did Fucking around and
have boyfriend Okay, when he'shere, when he's Back home or
here Back home, okay, but.
For me.
(30:31):
I think that it's not reallyNice to do If you, if you were
with someone For being like Agirlfriend, a boyfriend.
I'm.
I'm Totally thinking about this.
It's not nice to do if I haveboyfriend and I'm with men
(30:52):
around.
So that is not nice if you, ifit's a depends on like you, have
to try in each order but if,like you trust in in her, but
her did that.
So, yeah, totally is this, yeah, is this?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
yeah, right to I agree, but there is one point we
are missing, and that point isthat when you take a girl out of
the bar right and you even payher money, yeah you go back home
.
She's working in the bar.
Before she was in a party mode,right Party, getting money,
drinking, getting drunk,sometimes even doing drugs.
(31:28):
And then when you take them outof the bar, it's boring for
them, for some of them, and itgets really, really boring for
them Because what do you askthem Okay, go back home to your
hometown yeah, that's boring.
Or stay in Pattaya.
You ask them okay, go back hometo your hometown, that's going.
Or stay in Pattaya, that'sgoing, also if you're not
working.
So how can you expect them notto do stuff like that?
And when people get drunk, theyget horny, or you know how it
(31:50):
works, we all know how it worksso.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
So like is this area important to make sure, like
who's a real person, of coursein every aspect of your life.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
When you choose a partner, you have to make sure
it's the right partner.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
Like I always say to my friends, you can take the
lady out of the bar, but you'llnever take the bar out of the
lady.
I hate this phrase.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I think it's bullshit .
I think it's bullshit becauseand I explain why Most of the
ladies and ladyboys that walkthe bars don't really want to
walk the bars.
No, no, no one wants to be aprostitute.
No one wants.
You know, everyone wants tohave a better life.
Of course, when you say the bar, you don't mean the fucking
party, you mean the mentality ofparty girl, right yeah?
(32:38):
That's what you meant.
Yeah, yeah, but we are all.
Even the guys that come hereare party guys, you know.
Can someone hold you down andtell you John, don't party
anymore?
Speaker 2 (32:48):
No.
Speaker 3 (32:49):
I'm doing whatever I want.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
So no one can get the bar out of John also.
No, no.
Speaker 3 (32:57):
Go both ways.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (32:58):
I mean, I don't like this phrase because this phrase
makes well people can think.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
I don't like this phrase because this phrase make
well people can think that itmeans that all of them are
whores in a whole state of mindand it's bullshit.
It's not that I bet.
If you ask 100 random girls orladyboys that walk the bus, do
you really want to walk here?
99 of them will say no.
Of course not really want towork here.
(33:21):
99 of them will say no.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Of course not have some who really want to be in
the bar, Be in the bar yeah, butfuck for money, no one wants to
really do that.
No one really wants to do that.
You would prefer just to getmoney free.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Why do you?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
fuck for it, right?
Yeah, yeah, right right, If itdoesn't work, so he doesn't get
money.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
So right, yeah, yeah, right, right, right.
If it doesn't work, so hedoesn't get money.
So this phrase is a bitproblematic.
Yeah, yeah, at the beginning ofthe episode, and now it's the
serious part, okay.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
At the beginning of the episode.
Speaker 1 (33:50):
I said this episode is dedicated to Minnie.
Minnie was your ex-girlfriend,right?
She was a ladyboy.
Can you tell us about her first, how you you met and the whole
progression of that?
Speaker 3 (34:01):
It was one night I walked along Beach Road.
I come up to Soy, 13-1.
I thought I'll check up.
I go up and I go to the.
Is it the Avenue?
The Avenue?
Okay To go and get some coffee.
So I walked up 13-1 and I comeup La Bamba Bar.
(34:22):
Of course, la Bamba Bar.
They was outside.
One said, oh, come on, come on.
I said, look, I'm just going upto here to get some coffee.
So I left.
I said, maybe come back later,go up.
And then that was on theleft-hand side.
On the right-hand side therewas a place called the House.
(34:45):
Lady Boy is outside.
Oh, come on in, come on in.
And I see Minnie.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
How many of us was that?
Speaker 3 (34:56):
That would have been six, six years ago.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
Okay, something like that 2020, just before COVID
yeah.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
That might have been longer than that.
Okay, seven, eight around, okay, yeah, something like that.
Anyway, I didn't know, I justhad a chat.
I said, look, I'm going to chat.
I said, look, I'm gonna go uphere, I'll come back.
I thought so I went up coffee.
I thought I'm gonna go back tothe house, to the house, for
(35:31):
okay.
I went back there and she wasstill there, so I went in and
that was it.
From there we got together.
She spent the rest of theholiday with me.
I flew back home.
How was her English?
Good, she had good English.
Yeah, it was good.
Okay, it was good, becausesometimes the communication is
(35:53):
Enough to get by, okay, and thenI flew back home.
She carried on working.
I come back, she worked in thebar, you know, still in the same
bar you met her family and then, yeah, and then obviously spent
the holiday with her.
I flew back home, come back, Isaid, look, you still want to
(36:17):
work in the bar?
And she went, no, no, no, no,not really.
And I said, well, I'll alwayssort something out when I get
back.
Anyway, I said to her when Igot back to England, I said,
look, don't work in the bar oryou can work, work behind the
bar, don't go with customers.
She said, okay, I'll not gowith customers.
(36:39):
So she carried on workingbehind the bars.
I guess, you had to pay.
You had to pay to help you out,yeah.
And then I come back toThailand.
We went up to Kalasin, met herfamily, stayed with her family,
okay, and that, yeah, and thatwas yeah, so, and that was it.
(37:02):
And we was together for twoyears Must have been two years,
three years, exclusively, yeah.
And then we split up.
Okay, we split up, and that wasit.
We never got back together, butI was still calling her, we're
still speaking on the telephone.
That was it.
We never got back together, butI was still calling, we were
still speaking on the telephoneand that, but we wasn't together
(37:25):
, but she still stayed up in thevillage.
Oh, she never come back.
No, she never, ever come backto Batea.
And then that was it.
And then three, three years ago,I was in the hotel and saw you
book out, just laid on my bedwatching TV.
I get a message come throughfrom a best friend, minigun.
(37:51):
I went, what, minigun?
So I called up.
I said B, what's happened?
She said she was with me lastnight, we were having a drink
and we finished drinking.
She went, she got up, said shealways called her friend, mom.
(38:17):
She said mom, thank you foreverything you've done.
Went home and hung herself.
It's suicide.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
How her.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
She hanged herself.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
With the orb.
Yeah, yeah, she hanged herself.
That is why I got a picture ofme and her pictures on my phone
and that will not go off.
That is why I got a picture ofme and her pictures on my phone
and that will not go off.
That is my.
I see your memory for her.
Speaker 1 (38:51):
Yes, I get that and it's a terrible thing.
Have you tried to understandwhat happened?
What made her come to thisdecision?
Speaker 3 (39:01):
No, even her friend didn't have no clue, because
they were drinking together.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
They was on a few beers at her house.
The letters had.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
And it must have been a.
I mean, if she, if she saidthat to me, I would have thought
thank you for everything you'vedone.
And I've I've been thinking youknow what do you mean by that?
Yeah, what do you mean by that?
Thank you for everything you'vedone.
And then she went home.
(39:37):
That's terrible, and that wasit.
And then, obviously, I wasstill in Thailand and for three,
four days I didn't want to knowanybody.
I just went out to a bar and Iwould drink and drink and drink
until I was Completely pissed.
Yeah, and even now, when afriend goes back to the village,
(39:58):
a friend, she will go to hermom and dad's house.
She would video call me and Iwould see her mom and dad.
Her mom would start crying, Iwould start crying.
She couldn't speak no English,she had to translate you both
love the same person and yeah, Ithink next year I should go up
(40:21):
to Calisthen for the memorial.
They do that after four years,right, is it four?
Speaker 1 (40:26):
years or five.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
I thought it's about like five.
I think After five years Ithink it might be five.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
But you can go anyway .
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:43):
I'll go out with a friend.
It will be very emotional.
Speaker 1 (40:49):
It will be, but I think it can also be very
releasing sometimes to go thereand to know that you keep the
good things, you know the goodmemories and you still let her
memory live on with you with thepicture, with this podcast,
with you explaining and talkingabout it.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
I helped her family out with the picture, with this
podcast, with you explaining andtalking about it.
I mean, I helped her family outwith the funeral.
I sent the money.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I said, look, you're not paying for nothing, I'm
sending you the money foreverything, for the for
everything you know, becauseeven though we weren't together,
I still loved her, of course,so I kind of know, like that
time, how long you were separatewith her, and then you were,
(41:35):
how long?
Speaker 3 (41:37):
It was only, probably only about a year, Year after
yeah, it was only about a year.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
And other years that didn't happen, yeah yeah, and
then.
I'm sorry to hear about it.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
Yeah, it's a terrible story, but we all know that and
this is something that this isthe reason I wanted to do this
episode, because no one is evertalking about the suicide rates
of ladyboys, especially inBrazil and it's crazy, it's
crazy, crazy.
So I did some research andthere is no definite number.
(42:17):
There is no definite number forthat, but I did a research and
you find this normally.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I will tell you the, the older ladyboys.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
So it's like that 27% Between 21 and 27% of the
ladyboys in Pattaya reportedthat they tried to commit
suicide.
Okay, so we are already talkingone in four.
Okay, now the numbers say thatsomewhere between 16 and 7% of
(42:50):
them were successful.
Now, these numbers are true to2019.
So it might went down or mightwent up.
Only 10% of them got any mentalhealth like consolation and
stuff like that.
No one is helping them.
(43:11):
Not because they are ladyboys,because in Thailand, when all
the psychologists andpsychiatrists the Thais don't
really believe in that, theydon't really go to see a
psychologist or psychiatrist andlike that.
So this is in thailand.
In the us, they say that it's40 percent suicide attempts
(43:32):
reported by the uh, by thecommunity, not by the hospitals.
So it might be a low, lowernumber, because some people I'm
not saying that, okay, I willnot say that because it's
horrible, but not everyone thatsaid that he tried to commit
suicide really did it.
Sometimes they do it say it forother reasons.
Yeah, now, by the way, in theAsian region, thailand have the
(43:57):
most suicide rate of all theother nations here in 2019.
It's not only ladyboys.
It was 6.64, ok of so a percent, right, but we are talking
about, from 100,000 people underthe age of 30, 6.64.
(44:21):
It's crazy.
It's crazy numbers.
Ok, and the last information Igot that there is a suicide
attempt in Thailand every 10minutes.
Now, this is not only forladyboys, but the ladyboys
numbers are much higher.
They are more double than therest of the other communities.
Yeah, yeah, and I want to know,pim, what?
(44:43):
Because you are a ladyboy andyou know many ladyboys, why do
you think many ladyboys havesuicide thoughts and maybe try
sometimes to do something aboutit?
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Oh.
So I cannot say in the way Ihad and I probably want to do
that before want to finish mylife, because I'm, you know,
when we begin is very hard tolet everyone trust in us about
(45:19):
like you're gonna be a goodadult in this, this world, or in
the way like good forcommunities.
So it's just like you are alady boy and you know you are
like a man, but it's a way, likeyou know, in the future you
(45:40):
doesn't have any children, or,yeah, you can adopt if you want.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I'm a big believer in adoption but use the money also
.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
You know, like for have baby ladies make baby for
you.
Like take your sperm and takecare of baby for you.
But it's used money a lot yeah,yeah it's like you know your
life, it's just about like forlittle boy is important about
(46:16):
lovers and about happiness,because we know in, yeah, but
it's very general Everyone caresabout their love, life and
happiness.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
I think there is something more deeply rooted
that causes more ladyboys to tryat least to commit suicide,
because online I read anotherfact that was interesting, that
almost 40% of the successfulsuicides were because the
ladyboys discovered they haveHIV 40%.
(46:50):
It's crazy.
That's also part of that.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
I'm going to say about.
You know, before they calledladyboys like a lover loser.
It's about like I'm not justabout like it's I'm not.
I'm not just about like ladyboywith fun you know, some ladyboy
.
Thai ladyboy like Thai man likea most of them.
(47:15):
Most of them are Thai man, butyeah it is about like the love,
it's not complicated, like I'mnot not going.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Well, they lose feeling you think many ladies
don't get into seriousrelationship because they are
ladyboys, so many men don't takethem seriously.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, yeah seriously the most.
It doesn't make openrelationship and that is a hurt
to lady boy because like theyalways be the last choice for
for love.
You know, like gay, with gay isthis okay because the gay is
like the gay only like men andthe gay only like men, ladies
(47:56):
lesbian and men with women, butabout lady boy.
You know what I mean so youit's.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
It cannot be a gay man, because gay men like men so
it has to be somewhere betweenstraight and gay that can be
with a ladyboy, so it's alreadya narrow yeah option.
Right, it's like and?
And many people considerladyboy as fetish, not as people
.
Do you know that that manypeople look at ladyboys?
Speaker 2 (48:22):
and they say, oh, that's my fetish.
They don't see a person in aphoto.
Speaker 1 (48:27):
That's also a problem .
Speaker 2 (48:30):
I see it's like it depends on the person also.
If they have a positive vibe intheir life, they're not going
to do like that.
But I have like a bad vibebefore I'm not talking, I'm not
gonna talking about that.
But yeah, it's just easy tohappen if you're very hurt in
(48:54):
that part and you doesn't knowwhat is gonna going on next.
So the last part is likenormally more young people
commit suicide.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I think it's due to the fact that young people tend
to think that everything is sodramatic, Like I had a breakup
with this boyfriend oh, my lifeends now.
You know, and when you get abit older you take things less,
not less, seriously, but youknow how to cut the edge off of
things.
Speaker 2 (49:22):
So I want to know that about Ladyboy.
Is Ladyboy a girlfriend?
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Minnie.
Speaker 2 (49:26):
Minnie.
Okay, sorry, minnie, you're thefirst love for her.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
Like real boyfriend, have she had?
Real boyfriends before no no,she hadn't.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
No no.
Speaker 1 (49:41):
You're her first serious boyfriend.
I would say yeah, okay, yes.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Because she'd always worked in in the bar so I gotta
say that is pretty, make me sureabout that.
Why her um finish, finish herlife.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
I don't think it's because of that.
I think because other reasonthey decided to finish.
Yeah, you don't know what'sgoing on.
When she went in the village.
Speaker 2 (50:07):
Yeah but it doesn't mean I'm going to say it's your
fault, of course it's not hisfault.
Speaker 3 (50:13):
Yeah, it's like no because we were still talking
sometimes I was still helpingher, sending her a little bit of
money you still had a lot oflove in your heart for her yeah,
because she ring me or call me.
You know video call me.
Look, can you send me £50?
(50:36):
Or two, three thousand a month?
I'd say, yeah, no problem, noproblem, you know, I know she
wanted him.
I don't know what she was doing, whether she was drinking too
much, whether she was takinganything.
Was she a drinker?
You?
(50:57):
knew her as one no we'd go outto a bar and she'd go.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
Yeah, she's not like our mutual friend, right?
No, oh no.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
No, nothing like that .
But I don't know, because whenI wasn't in the village she was
seeing her friends, Maybe everyday they'd go and drink.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
I don't know, I think the exact reason doesn't matter
.
It matters more that us as acommunity I'm not talking any
specific community, I mean as ahuman community sometimes we
don't see the signs andsometimes we even push people
towards that and it's horriblebecause sometimes all people
(51:42):
something very small will makepeople not do that.
Like the right word at theright time.
Or a hug, you know, just asimple hug, when you see your
friend is a bit down and you say, hey, you okay, everything is
okay.
Speaker 2 (51:54):
What happened?
Can you tell me?
Speaker 1 (51:56):
That can solve anything.
But we as a society we fuckedup.
We are so self-centered and weonly look at ourselves.
We cannot see other peopleanymore, and that's a shame,
because this is the guilt forall the suicides that happen is
(52:16):
our guilt as a community.
It doesn't supposed to be likethat.
We are supposed to be a safetynet for the people that on a
verge of losing hope or stufflike that.
Speaker 3 (52:27):
It's like I've had friends back in the UK who have
gone out and committed suicide.
I think why do you talk?
The thing is with us men.
We don't like to talk about it.
We don't like to.
If you're feeling down, youjust keep quiet.
Yeah, and that's the problem.
(52:49):
That's why there's a bigsuicide rate for men, like in
the UK or all around the world.
All around the world, yeah, mencommit more suicide Because men
don't want to talk to someone.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
Have you seen the?
I forgot his name.
You know the.
I don't know where he's from,but he has like british or irish
accent.
I don't know the.
The mma fighter, p p p pindle.
You know who I'm talking about,with the blonde hair that goes
like that.
Do you follow mma?
(53:20):
Yes, you know, oh no paddy, thepaddy yeah from liverpool.
Yeah, have you seen what hetalked about men health because
his best friend it was one ofthe best speeches I ever heard
into a men health, a men mentalhealth.
When you are feeling bad, lookfor help.
Find your best friend, findsomeone that you can trust and
(53:42):
tell him listen, buddy, I'mfeeling down.
Speaker 2 (53:43):
I need your help.
Speaker 3 (53:44):
That was his best friend yeah, someone that you
can trust, and tell him listen,buddy, I'm feeling down, I need
your help.
Yeah, and that was an amazingspeech and he didn't know.
He didn't know Because hisright friend didn't talk to him.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And sometimes you just need one word, and we as
good friends and we as a society, need to be very aware to those
moments when people asksincerely hey, buddy, I need you
there now.
Can you come, stay with me?
Can you, let's go?
I need to.
I want to grab a beer.
Can you come with me?
Speaker 2 (54:12):
yeah, yeah, you know something that they will not say
it's hard for them, they justneed the company just yes,
something out of the soul youknow I gotta say about me okay
in in the way like that time herjust you know like finished
drinking with friend and thenlike that yeah, she said to her
(54:32):
best friend she finisheddrinking and you help her also.
So I can't say in the way, likeyou have everything, but look on
that, like it doesn't make herhappy.
You know, like it's everything,yeah, but in your mind you're
(54:54):
opening.
You think that is not yourhappiness.
But for other people, see, isthis, oh, this is good to happen
to you, but you think I'm yeah,but everyone's consider
happiness.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah.
For example, he might considerstuff that make him happy by
winning that competition.
Yeah, and for me it's just.
Or for people that don't havelegs or whatever, just.
Oh, I was able to go to thebathroom by myself.
You know, happiness is verydifferent, yeah so about her?
Speaker 2 (55:24):
I think maybe he just needs to stay yes, just tired,
and needs to not be in this life.
Speaker 3 (55:44):
I mean, she must have known.
Well, she knew she was going togo do it.
That's why she said goodbye toher best friend, so she knew she
was going to go home.
Speaker 1 (55:53):
Yeah, I don't really want to dive into the reasons of
health, because it's health,it's health thing, and it's not
our to discover it, right, but Ido think, and I want this our
to discover it.
but I do think, and I want thisconversation to be more around
how we can help people in thissituation and especially about
(56:15):
and this is why I think yourinput is very important, pim
about why it's more common inthe ladyboy community why they
are committing more suicide.
Is it drug related?
Is it disease related, like ajv?
Is it money related?
Or is it love related, as yousaid before?
Speaker 2 (56:37):
so I'm gonna say to not only ladyboy, but to people,
everyone who hear this podcastand I need to share to your
friend who you love, family orwhatever, please do not give up
(56:59):
in your life, keep going, yeah,do on your own, your own way,
and keep going your journeybecause your destiny will, maybe
your life, in one day gonna besuccessful for you.
And you gotta, you gotta likeyeah, I, I did it, I I make my
(57:22):
life, you know, be in what youthink you know, then you get.
I kind of say, keep going.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
And ask for help this is the most important Ask for
help If you're feeling down.
Go to someone that you trust,someone that you love, someone
that you know that loves youback and just say to them hey
buddy, hey sister, hey brother,it doesn't matter, I need you
now.
I need you to be with me,because I'm about to do
something that I'm not sure I'mhappy with and I need a hug.
(58:00):
I need a friend.
I need to take a load off mysoul.
I need a friend.
I need to take a load of mysoul.
I need to take, I need toscream.
Sometimes I just need to fuckingscream as loud as I can, and I
want someone to hear me scream.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
And please people.
Please people, being human,like if someone needs help, you
just help, just help them, youknow, just help and do your best
.
Speaker 3 (58:27):
It doesn't cost nothing to ask for help it
doesn't cost nothing.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
No, no, because you help someone who doesn't care
about anything, just you know.
Yeah, make people be happy.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
John, in your opinion , what do you think?
Not about me, we are talking ingeneral.
What do you think that?
Why do you think that thatcommunity suffers more from
suicide attempts?
I know it's hard to guess, butyeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (59:06):
Not like you say, hiv .
Speaker 1 (59:10):
But it's so treatable right now, you know, you just
take one tablet every day.
Speaker 3 (59:14):
Now it is.
Now it is.
I take PrEP every day yeah, toavoid it.
I take PrEP every day yeah, toavoid it.
But even ifEP every day, yeah,to avoid it.
But even if someone got HIV,they still have to take one
tablet every day.
Many years ago that did notexist.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
Yeah, they used to be the cofters.
You remember the 20 tablets?
Speaker 3 (59:30):
Yeah, so I know a few ladyboys who have passed away.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:38):
I know many that are sick right now, and it's okay.
They just take one tablet everyday and they cannot even
transmit it anymore to anyone no, no, no, so it's AJV.
You agree with her?
Speaker 3 (59:53):
I think, I think a lot.
It's like you get a lot ofolder ladyboys because men just
want the younger ones, so theolder ones are being left out.
And then they think what's freeworking?
They go back to their village,they go back to wherever and
(01:00:14):
they think I've got nothing.
And then, yeah, what do I wantto be on this planet for?
And then go on yeah, but I,what do I want to be on this
planet for?
And they go on.
Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yeah, but I don't think they wanted to be on the
planet for people to pay forthem.
No, no, no, of course, ofcourse, it's something that they
and I'm not saying that theyare stupid, but it's something
that you have to plan ahead,right, what I will do when I'm
40, let's say, as a ladyboy, andI start losing my hair and I'm
not as attractive as before,right?
(01:00:42):
what will I do then?
So we know some ladyboys thatare in their 50s.
I will not name.
I will not name her, but youknow that she's a very
successful business owner thatowns several bars.
Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
You know who I'm talking about in.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Soi 7.
Now you know who I'm talkingabout.
So, she's very successful.
She's been in the scene formany years.
Yes, and there is no problem ifyou are, if you play the hand.
Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Right, yeah, it's just.
I want everyone, every ladyboy,please, looking on, like, make
them be like a role model foryourself and and make your self
keep going, get better, likeokay, this lady boy she are
(01:01:33):
successful with life and and I.
In the one day I would be likeher.
But yes, we cannot be the samelike her you don't want to be,
because she has a lot of cocksto get where she is she came to
this one, but there are othersthat I know that are successful
but we can show the way, we canbegin, like who you are, role
(01:02:00):
model, and it's a much more,more and better, more than you
doesn't have any hope.
You know like make hope betterthan hope, yeah give hope
doesn't yeah doesn't causeanything, you know, and much
more better than doesn't haveany hope Do you also think it's
(01:02:20):
love related, as she said?
Speaker 1 (01:02:22):
You think there is a thing that sometimes you just
feel well, I will die alone, noone loves me, I cannot find my
soulmate.
That's also a possibility.
Yeah, I saw another researchand I don't know how connected
it is, but I know that theladyboy community especially.
(01:02:46):
There are more drug users inthat community than any other
community in Thailand.
Okay, do you think that canmaybe be part of it?
Yeah, maybe, because we are nottalking about weed, right?
We are talking aboutmind-altering drugs like ice
like Yaba, which is fuckingcrazy today.
(01:03:08):
Yes, and it can alter yourthinking.
It can make you depressedsometimes.
And, for example, Yaba ifpeople take Yaba, they can
sometimes not sleep three days,four days.
Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
They get crazy Even now you go on the news, it's not
just ladyboy or ladies likefrom Thailand.
As you get from Russia, you getfrom Germany.
Speaker 1 (01:03:32):
But about those.
It's a bit different.
And then they find that they'vegot drugs.
Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Yeah, oh you mean the drugged ones?
The drugged ones, they thinkthey can fly, so they jumped in
from a 13 foot long.
Speaker 1 (01:03:45):
You're right.
But in Pattaya there is anotherthing and you know I think you
know what I'm talking about.
Some men come here at the late50s, 60s, spend all their money
and when their money gone theyjust commit suicide.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
This is also.
It used to be a suicide citybefore.
For all foreigners.
Yes, just be careful in yourlife.
No, it's not about beingcareful.
Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
This is something else.
Think about what they did.
They came to Pattaya.
They knew they had, let's say,I had $50,000.
When this money finish, I willkill myself.
Because I don't.
And it's not one case or twocases.
There used to be many caseslike that the people spent all
their money and then killedthemselves.
This was their plan, but this issomething that I can.
(01:04:28):
Okay, I will do that in quotes.
I can respect more because itwas planned and they did it
because they don't want to workanymore.
They felt that they are oldenough to end it.
Just please don't jump frombuildings and meet someone else.
Find other ways to do that right.
But this I can get.
But young men, ladies, ladyboys, it doesn't matter.
(01:04:51):
This always just seek for help.
And before I finish thisepisode, I want to again, now I
found it.
I want to again, now I found it.
I want to read the words thatPaddy said.
Paddy the MMA fighter becauseit's so amazing.
So he said there is a stigma inthe world that men can't talk.
(01:05:12):
Listen, if you are a man andyou've got weight on your
shoulders and you think the onlyway you can solve it is by
killing yourself, please speakto someone.
Speak to anyone.
I'd I known, I'd rather I Iknow, I'd rather my mate cry on
my shoulder than go to hisfuneral next week.
Yeah, that's amazing.
(01:05:33):
This is, I think, summarizeeverything that we talked today.
Just when you feel down, whenyou think you feel on the verge,
just go talk to someone, anyone.
It can be even a stranger,sometimes.
Even that it can help.
If you shy about those feelings.
You can find a random strangerin a bar or whatever and just
(01:05:54):
say listen, buddy, I'm feelingdown today.
Can you have a drink with me?
yeah, make sure yeah, theircompany yeah that can change the
whole state of mind.
Yeah, yeah, john, I want tothank you, yeah.
I think, we can talk more andmore about this subject, but I
(01:06:15):
think I prefer to keep it verysummarized because I don't want
to go into the.
I don't like the statistic andall this stuff.
I brought it just to show howhigh it is.
But, as I said, it happens andit sucks that this happens and I
wish it would not happen.
Yeah, and that's it, and thankyou, john, for being our guest
(01:06:36):
and thank you for sharing yourstory, because I know how
emotional it is for you and Ilove your body really and I hope
maybe on some other episode wecan talk about more happy stuff.
So thank you very much.
Thank you very much for havingme.
No problem, pim, do you haveanything to say?
Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
yeah to the listener.
Thank you so much for listeninguntil now.
I hope you guys get somethingto use in your life and share
this podcast Share this podcast,this episode especially, yeah,
especially, share it around.
Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
I think maybe it can also help someone.
Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
Yeah and thank you, john, for sharing your
experience, your stories.
Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Thank you, I'm very proud about like you can keep
going in your life and youdoesn't give up to to find
happiness no, no, it doesn'tthank you so much thank you
again, thank you to ourlisteners and this episode I
will not say the normal stuffthat I say, so we just love you
and thank you for listening.
(01:07:47):
Yeah, bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (01:07:48):
Bye-bye, bye-bye.
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