Surviving 1984: A Daughter's Journey Through Grief and Stigma | Ft. Jyoti Grewal Ep. 071 [Season 2 Finale] - My Thick Accent

Episode Transcript
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Gurasis Singh (00:01):
Hi, this is Gurasis Singh and you're
watching my Thick Accent Podcast.
Let me start with a briefhistory lesson.
Today, so in 1984, one of thedarkest chapters in modern
Indian history unfolded the SikhGenocide Following the
assassination of Prime MinisterIndira Gandhi.
Thousands of Sikhs werebrutally killed in

(00:22):
state-sponsored violence.
Mobs robed the streets, homesand businesses were set on fire
and families were ripped apartovernight.
The attacks weren't random.
They were systematic.
Voter lists and governmentrecords were used to target Sikh
households, and for days, thestreets of India's capital and

(00:42):
beyond were soaked in fear andblood.
Days, the streets of India'scapital and beyond were soaked
in fear and blood.
For many, this is a page inhistory books, but for others,
like our guest today, it waslived reality.
At just five years old, ourguest found herself hiding in a
neighbor's house while kiosksraged outside.
In the midst of it all, herfather couldn't escape, and he

(01:03):
paid for it with his life.
What followed was a journey ofsurvival, of adapting to an
entirely new world in Canada,while carrying the weight of
grief, trauma and deeplyingrained societal expectations.
From being reminded that herfamily didn't have a son to
navigating stigmas aroundmarriage, divorce and even
raising daughters of her own.

(01:23):
Her life has been a testamentto navigating stigmas around
marriage, divorce and evenraising daughters of her own.
Her life has been a testamentto resilience, but today she
stands as a woman who has healed, who has redefined her path and
who is raising the nextgeneration to break free from
outdated norms.
In this episode, we are divingdeep into her journey, how she
unlearned, healed and ultimatelyfound the strength to say I am

(01:46):
enough.
Please welcome Jyoti Grewal.

Jyoti Grewal (01:51):
Thank you so much, Gurusheesh.
That was a beautifulintroduction.

Thank you.
Thank you for being on thepodcast, thank you for saying
that.
I know it means a lot, butpretty excited to get into your
journey and unfold how you havesort of, like you know, came
through and powered througheverything that, how your life
has been so welcome.
Thank you so much.
All right, jyoti.
So before we get into theserious stuff, I want to start

(02:18):
on a lighter note.
This episode is part of myseason two, but I'm trying to
turn up the fun factor a littlebit, so I'm going to start by
asking you some fun questions.
Okay, so tell me first, iswhat's your go to breakfast?

I start with a protein shake, believe it or not
, okay.
So all the veggies, the yogurt,I'm trying in this era of my
life, to look after myself, notonly mentally but also
physically.

So, yeah, that's my breakfast.
I love that, and share afavorite song or a dialogue or a
movie and tell us why it'ssignificant to you.

Hmm, you know, I think the movie is a Hindi movie
.
I think it was called Kaal, butdon't quote me on that because
I might have misused the name,but in there it was an Ajay
Devga movie and sort of about.
It was based on societal issuesand in that movie he said

(03:18):
basically that animals can evenunderstand their own pain.
What is the difference?
That humans only feel their ownpain and not others, right?
So that to me is a simple idea,but it speaks so well in all
the different things that unfoldin society is that if we only
felt others' pain like we feelour own, I think the world would

(03:39):
be a better place.

Wow, such a profound interpretation of it.
I love that.
Yeah, okay.
So next is if you had to teachone phrase or something in your
mother tongue, what would it beand what does it mean?

Oh, that's so interesting.
One phrase in my mother tongue,mannima matuchi.
And how would you translatethat?
Oh, wow, I have it tattooed onboth of my wrists and
essentially, a lot of people askme about it.
Right, because they see it's onthe wrist, it's obvious, and

(04:16):
for me it's, you know, roughlytranslated.
It's in in the sikardas, the,the prayer that we do at the end
of every, you know, prayerceremony, and it's like a path
to guidance Keep your mindhumble, keep your mind humble,
stay in humility, but keep yourthoughts and morals high.
So, that's something I thinkbecause it's tattooed on me.

(04:36):
People get asked off.
That way, it spreads out to theworld and those that I come in
contact with.
It's something for them tothink about.

I like that.
Yes, you know, in my case it'salways my name, you know,
because it's not somethingpeople have heard about
different variations of Punjabinames.
You know Manpreet, harpreet andall that, but maybe Gurusis was
something new to them.
So I have always beenquestioned okay, what does it
mean?
You know, what does itsymbolize, or so to say.
And maybe initially I neverthought about it, but now I am.
It's so much like ingrained inme now how to say that, how to

(05:11):
communicate that, so I alwayslike ask that question as well.

Yeah, yeah, me too .
I mean Jyoti is is maybe not asunique as Godasis, but it's a
name that people often haven'theard, and so it makes you kind
of stop and appreciate where youwere named and and the meaning
behind it and kind of it's funnynames can often dictate how we
walk our path.
That sort of follows in withyou as well.

(05:38):
But yeah, for me too it's likelight.
Okay, how do I walk this world?
Shedding some light, leavingsome light behind.

Right For sure, yeah, your world shedding some
light, leaving some light behind?
Right for sure, yeah.
Your life, your path has beenlike that, where you have
ignited or enlightened, you knowvarious uh, paths of.
I would say like even for yourchildren also, you know you're
doing the same thing, lightingthe path for them.
We'll get into that.
But last question in thissegment if you could teleport
back to a particular place for aday, where would you go and
what would you do?

I have a job, so I just recently went to punjab in
uh january and uh I would bethere sipping my you know 25th
cup of cha, the oven, thehomemade chula and and just
sitting there in the mostsimplicity and having great
conversations with the elderlyfamily, that simple bonding is

(06:29):
that's my happy place.

Absolutely All the happiness is in the simplest
things, for sure.
So, speaking of that, I want totake you back to the time you
spent in India.
I'm talking about yourformative years.
Tell us anything that you canshare about the time before 1984
.
Before 1984.

The unfortunate thing is and I do think it has
to do with our our body andbrain trying to protect us.
So I don't have a ton ofmemories.
The ones I do have there, Icall them dreams.
They're like in a dreamlikestate, so they're not very solid
.
They're floating images and Isometimes question myself.
I call them dreams.
They're like in a dreamlikestate, so they're not very solid
, they're floating images and Isometimes question myself like

(07:12):
did that even happen, or did Ijust, you know, make it up
through Bollywood movies orsomething like this?
I sometimes confirm with my mom, like I have this memory, you
know that we I was up high on mydad's shoulder and there was a
wedding, a ceremony, but it wasdark, and traditional Sikh
weddings happen in the lightright so what is that memory
about?
mom?
And she will say that, yeah,you did.
You went to a Hindu marriageceremony which happened, you

(07:35):
know, when it was darker.
So those kinds of memories arefew and far between, but, yeah,
that's one core memory that Ihave is of this wedding and
because I was in the highestspot, on my dad's shoulders,
watching this wedding happen umthat's sort of a core memory
that I have from my time thereokay, and was that the stigma

(07:55):
around you know, uh, havingdaughters in the house and no
child.

was that also sort of introduced to you back
then?
If you, or maybe it was told toyou by your parents?

No, so my dad was actually an educated man of the
times in the 70s and 80s.
So at that point it was just meand my younger sister, who was
two and a half years younger.
So when my dad was alive duringthat time in India, he was the
father of two daughters, and itwas actually my mom that wanted
a son, right, that wanted to tryagain for another child so that

(08:26):
she would be able to give us abrother.
But my dad would always say I'mhappy I've got two girls, and he
did some foreshadowing in thefuture because he would say I
want the older one to be ateacher and the younger one to
be a nurse, and those are thecareers that me and my sister
are in actually at the moment.
So I didn't remember any ofthat touching me during that

(08:47):
time.

Okay, and also, is there something about maybe
India or Punjab that you wouldlike to?

share with people that people might not know the
beauty.
I think when people are fedthrough media there's a lot of
misconception about poverty,about people being uneducated,
women's rights, that kind of athing, and then just actually
the physical landscape of thecountry right.

(09:22):
So when I went to India, I'vegot tons of pictures of the
beautiful green farms, the water, the animals and then the way
that people actually bask insimplicity, like you had
mentioned earlier.
So, I would take pictures of youknow five or six elderly men
just hanging out for two orthree hours touching up on their

(09:44):
day.
And same thing for women indifferent spots in life, and
just the pace of life and therelationship building.
That happens because we havetime to stand and have a
conversation.
People are not constantlywatching their you know, their
phone for oh, I have to be hereor there's a meeting.
The time to have deeprelationships and appreciate the

(10:07):
beauty.
So going in for a walk everyday in those beautiful green
fields, that's a core memory andI think if you went back to
Punjab and experienced that,your narrative would change of
what you consume through media,to be India or what a Punjabi
family is, or the experience ofbeing in that world is right.

So absolutely yeah.
Until unless it's not lived,you would never be able to
really understand the depth ofit and the feeling of it.
Because once you are in thosefarmland, you know, you really
genuinely forget about yourphone.
You are so much immersed in theair in the air and so much
relaxed you feel, you know, justbeing there.
You don't want to do anything,you just want to sit and lie

(10:49):
down sometimes there, you knowyeah, the sunsets are like so
much more vivid, and the sunrises and and then you can hear
the nature right, the birds andand the peacocks in the air, and
it's just, it's beautiful andyou just, it literally catches
your breath.
Yeah, absolutely yeah.
All right, I'm getting into thenostalgia of it, but moving on,

(11:13):
moving on Time to book a tripright.
Yeah, I actually just came backlike two months ago so so it's
very fresh for me, so I thinkI'll get more into the feeling
of it like going back again.
You know, so it's hard to getover.
I'm still on the recoveringphase, so okay.
So moving on, you know,obviously, tell us about the

(11:34):
events of October 984.
And you know how it impactedyour family, your life at such a
young age.

Tell me about that so you gave a bit of the
history lesson and, and nomatter how many times I talk
about this story, it still, itstill shakes you up a bit.
Right.
Your stomach turns, especiallyif you have lived in living
experiences.
Like you said, it's notsomething that's just in the
history books.
You turn the the next page,move on.

(12:03):
You know this is something thatis a part of my life each and
every day.
So in 1984, for some listenerswe had Operation Blue Star in
India, which was, you know,indira Gandhi was the prime
minister at that time.
There was political upheavalhappening between opposing

(12:23):
parties wanting somethingdifferent and, um, her troops,
let's say militia, stormed intothe golden temple and lots of
innocent praying people who werethere for religious purposes
men, women, children died, um,and so that was sort of where it
started in 1984.

(12:44):
And when I I talked to my momshe talks about my dad, you know
like, and her members of herfamily sitting around and
listening to this and saying whyis this happening?
Because those people that werein the Golden Temple at that
time they were innocent, theywere there for religious
purposes right and to lose theirlife.

(13:05):
And some jumped into wellsbecause to escape the gunshots.
And there was no respect done interms of you don't go into a
gurdwara without your headcovered, without taking your
shoes off.
So just the whole the suspectyeah, it was just so.
It touched, I think, sikhs allaround the world and, of course,

(13:27):
our family as well.
And what happened a couplemonths following that sort of
traumatic event was two of IndraGandhi's bodyguards were sick,
so they assassinated her inretaliation for this, and that
just opened up this whole can ofhorrific events that basically

(13:50):
unfolded overnight.
And we hear about the Delhiriots.
My family was living in MadhyaPradesh at that time.
My dad had a very successfultrucking business there, so we
were one of the few Punjabi Sikhfamilies that were living there
, and I think you mentioned inyour introduction that it was
systematic because Sikh familieswere targeted, so we lived

(14:14):
amongst and again, I don'tremember a lot of it, it's
basically from information mymom, who was in her 20s at that
time, shared and essentially mydad had come home for lunch and
I do remember stirrings as a kid, you feel the energy in the
house shift as a five-year-oldthinking something is up, like

(14:36):
people are upset about somethingbut not understanding, and now,
of course, throughconversations with my mom.
It was my dad saying look whathappened.

You know, Indira.

Gandhi is dead and there's all of these riots that
are happening, and thenbasically we became a target of
those riots as well.
So our house, people startedthrowing rocks and we were a
joint family.
So my grandparents, my dad'syounger brother, my uncle, two
of us sisters, my mom we alllive together and my dad

(15:06):
basically shifted us to the nextdoor neighbors who were of
Hindu religion.
So that's where the discrepancyin humanity is.
You can't label everybody thatis of Hindu religion as a bad
person.
Because of them.
I'm here today.
My sister is alive, my mom isalive, my grandparents are alive
.
My mom is alive, mygrandparents are alive.
They essentially hit us and mymemory of that day is just being

(15:31):
underneath their bed and notunderstanding.
Lots of confusion in my littlebrain, you know.
I remember poking my head upand I just remember my mom
hitting me on the back of myhead, say get back under the bed
.
But what I saw in that verybrief moment there was a window
right in front of us is my dadon top of our roof of our house,

(15:51):
and he had just gotten hit by arock that people were throwing,
and so he took off his.
He was wearing an undershirt.
He was relaxing at home forlunch and he took off his
undershirt and he just washolding it on his forehead to
stop the bleeding and then I wasshoved under the bed again.
So, when you talk about corememories, that's a core memory,
and then anything after that isthrough my mom's eyes.

(16:12):
That I remember or I'm told.
I have newspaper clippings ofwhat our house looked like.
There was so much rubble thrownthat there's no space left.
The house was burnt, basically,and my dad refused to hide and
my uncle refused to hide, sothey were up there fighting
against I don't know how manynumbers of mobs.

(16:33):
Then eventually, we made ourway back to Punjab.
We didn't live in MadhyaPradesh again specifically my
mom and us because it was justtoo traumatic for her to go back
.
But my grandparents and myuncle continued the business
there and we lived in Punjab.
They're running.
So yeah, that's a briefsynopsis through my my five year

(16:57):
old eyes at that time it's, um,it's such a I can't even like
fathom how that five-year-oldmust be feeling.

You know, um, like you said, you can really
feel the energy in the room andthe stirrings happening around
and we I mean now you are at aposition where you can actually
deflect and talk about it but Ithink a lot of trauma, a lot of
things were sort of immersed orsort of absorbed by that

(17:29):
five-year-old at that tender age.
Right, and you know, I want toask you, like, following that
you were telling me briefly inour previous introduction also,
that the life became very, veryhard after that, right, and
after your father's passing,your there were lack of support
to our, to your mother, to befinancial, emotional, and always

(17:54):
a man has to accompany them, nomatter what the decision they
want to make in their life.

Right, talk a little bit about that as well
yeah, um, so we were two sisters, like I had mentioned earlier,
and when my dad died I'm notgoing to say passed away, I know
that's the the the soft way ofsaying it but he didn't pass
away, it wasn't his, it wasn'tdue to an illness that he was

(18:20):
struggling with that.
He was killed right um.
So when he, my mom was pregnantwith our youngest sister.
She was about three monthspregnant.
So after his death she had athird daughter.
My youngest sister was born andthat event itself like my mom
talks about.
When my youngest sister wasborn, they lied to her, her

(18:42):
family members, and said, oh,the baby didn't survive Because
they said she wouldn't be ableto deal with the trauma of
having another daughter havingjust recently lost her husband
and somehow everyone thoughtthat my dad was going to come
back in the form of this thirdbaby that it was
only right for that to happen.
So the hopes were high that thethird child would be a son.

(19:05):
And when that didn't happen,but my mom says you know, even
in the hospital, when they weretelling me this baby had passed
away, I said give her to me.
She knew it was a daughter.
And she said I actually felt somuch love for that child that
she's very protective of mysister to this day because that

(19:25):
was like my dad's last gift toour family.
Was this baby right?
So that sort of kind of tellsyou what she was dealing with in
terms of society in the 80s.
You know the role of a son andhow another daughter, yet
another daughter, was considered.
Oh no, like.
I just God hate us that he gaveus another daughter.

(19:47):
He could have spared her andgiven her a son for all of the
pain of losing her husband.
So that narrative kind ofcontinued on with all of our
lives, with my mom, with mysisters, of like hearing oh,
you're three girls.
Such a burden, a burden, uh, tobe one of three girls.
We have to marry you, right?
I know that there's, uh,there's sayings like having a

(20:10):
daughter is like wateringanother man's garden because she
doesn't stay yours, which, now,this is something that really,
um, makes my stomach turn when Ihear that as a mother of two
daughters.
Right, they are nobody's garden,they're not a possession to be
had.
So the narrative of that, youknow, my mom had a graded
education.
She wasn't able to supportherself by being employed, that

(20:35):
kind of a thing.
So lost.
Her husband had three daughters.
So that was kind of the reasonthat when my adoption came up,
my dad's aunt wanted to adopt me.
It was sort of like helpful toher to have one less mouth to
feed, one less responsibility,although then there was also
that tug inside of her of givingup her child right After very

(21:00):
recently losing her husband.
So there was a lot of upheavalin her life at a very young age
she was only about 26 at thattime.
But yeah, so I came to Canadaat the age of seven and you know
I lived with my aunt and uncle,my dad's brother and my dad's
sister and brother-in-law, andmy mom raised my two younger
sisters in India.

(21:21):
Through this patriarchal societythat was made her dependent on
anybody else to usually a malefigure.
So that ended up being herbrother, my uncle, who is like a
father figure in our livesbecause he sort of took on that
role, whether it was registering, you know us into a school or
going to get groceries or anytype of event that that involved

(21:42):
leaving the house, basically toconduct business in society.
You needed a male to accompanyyou for it to be okay, because
women at that time didn't reallygo out and do things
independently.

You know, I just want to share a personal story
here.
So I'm the youngest in thefamily here, so I'm the youngest
of my uh.
In the family I have two eldersisters and they are a decade
older than me, both of them 10and 11.
10 and 8, sorry.
And at that time I heard itfrom my sisters and I heard it
from my mother as well, thateverybody wanted me to have a

(22:19):
son.
You know, and it was such a bigconversation in the 90s, 80s as
well, and you know the if Isometimes I think about it and
and I see that look at me today,I, being a son, I'm here in
Canada and if anything happensto my parents ever, you know,
whether they were sick orsomething like that my sisters

(22:40):
are always the first one to goand run and really be with them.
Look at the irony of thingshere.
You know, craving for that son,having that son, this mentality
deep rooted in our society.
Yes, things are changing, but Ithink there's still a long way
to go, especially in some of therural sections of the society

(23:02):
in India and to some extent evenin the urban section.
I see those conversationshappening very like hush-hush,
but they do happen.
They do happen and I reallyhope that these things change,
and I do reflect upon that acouple of times.
You know, throughout my journeyhere in Canada, that look at me,

(23:22):
that there were times it'sgoing to be seven years for me
and my father has been sick acouple of times.
My mother has been sick and mysisters were the first one to
run and go help them, you know,or be with them.
So, yeah, this is the um.
I don't even know how to likeput this in words, but this is
such a such a, such a like apersonal um anecdote I'm sharing
here, which I might have notbefore.

(23:43):
Just because you were sharingsuch a vulnerable side to
yourself, I could not stopmyself from sharing that.
Don't really run after thisorthodox thinking.
It's time to go past that.

Yeah, yeah thank you for sharing and I think, uh,
voices like yours are important, voices of sons are important
to say, hey, a son is not theend-all, be-all, um, and
daughters are capable.
Just Voices of sons areimportant to say, hey, a son is
not the end, all be all.
And daughters are just ascapable of taking care of
parents.
And, like I sometimes sit andreflect on this and I think,
okay, in past generations maybeI can understand this need

(24:16):
because a daughter got married,moved into her in-laws home to
take care of them, and you knowthat's, that was her purpose.
And then if you had a son andyou know that's that was her
purpose, and then if you had ason some other you know woman,
somebody else's daughter wouldcome and take care of your
family.
So I understand why in the pastit was necessary, because it
was sort of your old age planand that kind of a thing.

(24:38):
But things are different now.
Women are educated and there'sno longer this pressure of being
owned by somebody.
Like your husband's familydoesn't own you and really
neither do your parents.
It should come from the heartand this unfair thing of like
having a right over a son butnot a right over a daughter.
I know there's songs that arestill sung today, right?

(25:01):
New songs come out and it's allabout the daughter's role
versus the son's role, and thatkeeps perpetuating the same myth
to the next generation againright.
So I think we talk the talk,but we don't walk the walk.
Yeah, true so people like tosay these things there's no
difference.

I mean I've heard it in many different circles
there's no difference betweenboys and girls, but when it
comes to reality, people want ason in our culture, absolutely
yeah yeah, there's only a few, Ithink that really truly are
okay with just having daughtersand then right yeah, absolutely.
Um, okay, I just wanna now pivottowards your journey to canada,

(25:45):
and you were seven, I believeyou know, when you came with
your aunt to canada.
Tell us, do you have anyrecollection of your initial
days, let's just say likeinitial years?
You know how was it like justcoming here and do you remember
any culture, shocks, language,how, how was that handling that?

Yeah, so I actually came with a friend of
my aunt's.
My aunt and uncle were inCanada so back in the 80s this
was in 87, there weren't a lotof people that would.
It wasn't like as much of anorm for people to go to, you
know these Commonwealthcountries.
So I guess the family foundthis friend of my aunt's who

(26:25):
lived happened to live in thesame town in BC and I was booked
a ticket to go with her and Iremember being outside of the
airport asking my mom where am Igoing?
And she said you're going tovisit your aunt, you're going to
her bin.
You're going to her village, andso it was made in my mind to
sound like just a short trip.

(26:46):
I'll be back in a week or two,right?
So that was sort of the firstlie, and I know why why my mom
did it.
It was just to make it a bitsofter on on me and probably on
her as well, although myinnocent mind protected me right
.
I had the shroud of childhoodto protect me from a lot of the

(27:06):
things.
But she didn't have that, soshe suffered far greater in
those years, I would say, than Idid.
Just because I was a kid, I wasdistracted easily.
I went on with my life.
Of course I missed her, but Iwas also very young, so I became
immersed in my new life hereand some of that was at the very
initial stages.

(27:27):
I went to an English mediumschool in India, but it still
was a struggle when I came hereto understand.
So I took some tutoring, butbecause as children they're like
sponges, you can absorb thelanguage really, really quickly.
I didn't struggle too much fortoo long, maybe just a couple of

(27:50):
months, and then I was into thespeaking and having friends and
that kind of a thing.
But it was a rural farming townand so there weren't a lot of
people that looked like me.
We had Indigenous peoples andthen we had white folks, folks,
and then there was just me andone other cousin that were the
brown kids in my class, right.
So there was some racism um, youknow that happened and there

(28:13):
was some othering that happenedat a very young age, um, so I
have some, some memories of that.
And then, just also trying tonavigate the East and West boats
, I always say like I felt likeI had my foot in one in each
boat, the home world, where itwas very you know, the Punjabi
culture, food, dress, all ofthis and then when you left at

(28:35):
school, that was a differentworld, and so you're trying to
find yourself in between both ofthose.

Yeah, and where was it?
Where in Canada?

In BC, so in the okanagan.

Okay, I see, yeah , and I was your high school,
like you know.
You told spoke briefly aboutracism and othering and
everything.
Yeah, do you have any vividincidents that you can share
with us?

um, I think it was not one specific incident.
It was was sort of you know,when there's the in group and
the out group, you just knowthat you are not part of quote
unquote the norm.
You are part of the other group.
You dress differently.
So you know, I wasn't up on thetrends of clothing that the

(29:20):
other kids were wearing andsometimes I wasn't allowed.
When all the other kids wouldgo to the movies, I wasn't
allowed to go to the movies.
So, I grew up in a quite astrict household and then part
of that was being a girl.
Girls aren't supposed to go out, girls aren't supposed to do
this, they're not supposed to dothat.
Be in the kitchen, learn how tomake food.
You have to serve your in-laws,so that sort of mentality.

(29:43):
And then also, when I hadfriends who were not Punjabi or
Indian, I, in order to survive,I would just lie to them about
why I couldn't have a sleepover,about why I couldn't go see the
movies, have a boyfriend, allof this stuff.
I just made up stories becausein that time I guess that was my

(30:04):
best defense mechanism is I wastoo ashamed of telling them the
truth, that I'm not allowed todo this.
This is not okay in my culture.
So there was that kind of athing.
And then, just like my formalname, I went by my formal name
Sukjit in schools.
And just the teacher'sreactions to my name every time

(30:26):
they would come across it in theattendance list.
You know they would make that.
I call it a constipated facewhen they came to my name
because it was like what do I dowith this?

And.

I was so embarrassed I would just put up
my hand because I knew it was myname that they were getting
stuck on Every single class,every new teacher, year after
year after year.
So it was that sort of likecovert forms of othering that.
I recall where it was likesending me messages all the time
that you're different, you'renot like the norm, there's

(30:57):
something weird about you andyou start to, after a while,
believe some of those things.
In my first couple of jobs Iactually wore a name tag that
said jody on it, j-o-d because Ijust was tired of people
mispronouncing my name and Igave in to that, that narrative
that was out there.

So what's the worst pronunciation you have
heard of?
Uh?

oh, um, so I don't know.
I don't know.
Maybe that's like more mydaddy's impression, but it was
just butchered.
Now, jyoti, I've heard goateeand someone expecting a japanese
person I, and so that wasreferred to me um, or coyote is
another one that's hilariousyeah, and it was just always

(31:47):
kind of makes you cringe andlaugh at the same time.
It's like just ask me you, youknow you have a capability to
pronounce such hard things likefettuccine, alfredo and
tchaikovsky and all of theseother chalamet.
You know you can say that yeah,it's like j like Jyoti is not.
It's like now.
I just say I don't expect youto learn my language in order to

(32:09):
, you know, make your tongueturn a certain way.
But if you even get close, Iappreciate that.
Yeah so if you can't say Jyoti,a lot of people call me Jyoti.
That's fine.

I think it's about seeing the intention it's
coming from, but they'reactually making an effort to
learn it or ask you for it, orthey're just like just ignoring
it.

Yeah, yeah.
It's like now.
I feel unseen, Like where am Iin this conversation?
Because you've just taken awayfrom me that word that I've
heard the most since birthAbsolutely.

It's my identity.

And if you don't say that, well then, birth, it's
my identity, and if you don'tsay that, well then, what else
about me?

do you respect and honor?
Yeah, totally, you know.
You mentioned about the racismthing.
I think what I'm understandingit was more of like an
underlying factor that wasn'tdirect on your face but you
could really understand.
Okay, something is coming myway, you know, and it's not
something which I'm feeling goodabout.
Tell me you know.
I often not something which I'mfeeling good about.
Um, tell me, you know, uh, Ioften have the discussion on the
podcast with first generationof immigrants and since you sort

(33:09):
of lived like the similar lifeyes, you were born in India, but
you were a very young age whenyou came to Canada and living
here as well.
They always tell me that, youknow, there was always this
alteration between living a lifeoutside of the house and then
coming back to the house, like Iremember once one person said
that outside I was, uh, you know, like a certain canadian, I am

(33:31):
native, but then I come back tomy house and then I'm again like
punjabi and I'm again indianand I'm sort of, like you know,
switching between these twopersonalities.
Did you at any point have thatsort of like switching
personalities?
That, okay, where do I actuallybelong?
Who is jyoti?
Did you at any point have thatsort of like switching
personalities that, okay, wheredo I actually belong, who is
jyoti?
Did you ever question that?

absolutely, I actually had a physical change.
So when I came into the house Iwould change into a suit.
Okay, so I physically put on mypunjabiness right um, as soon
as I, I stepped above thethreshold.
So when you're talking aboutthis, I just thought, yeah for
sure, I had a very cleardistinction.
Pants are for outside the house.

(34:10):
Inside the house, you wear apunjabi suit.
Um, so I physically wouldchange.
And that was my evening weekendattire at home which then you
speaks into the language youspeak at home, the food you eat,
what is okay and not okay.
And then outside you know, youput on your pants, take off your

(34:31):
suit, and now you're, you'retalking like them and and you're
having similar experiences andreally trying hard to fit in,
and the best analogy I can thinkof is trying to put a square
peg into a round hole, whereyou're constantly trying to make
these identities align and theynever quite do, nor inside nor

(34:51):
outside the house.
So now I think I've tried tocreate this third middle ground
of life for myself, where I pickand choose pieces of both
worlds that feel right to me andthey're they I'm.
I won't say they're right foreverybody, but it's.
It's what is my truth and what.

(35:11):
I've decided to embrace based onmy experiences.

Um, and it just felt sometimes like there were
there were such opposing odds umthat it was crushing to be in
the middle of that, yeah, anddid you ever speak about it to
somebody in the house, or just afriend or somebody, anybody,
you know, maybe somebody inIndia?

Yeah, no, I didn't .
I didn't see my family until Iwas basically an adult, like I
was done my university education.
I did go back when I was 10 fortwo years and then I came back
at, I think, 12 and a half 13.
Then I didn't go back until Iwas done university.
So keep in mind that I didn'tgrow up with my mom and my

(35:53):
sister, so I didn't have arelationship with them.
And then here as well, I was ina household where children are
to be seen and not heard.
I was in a household wherechildren are to be seen and not
heard, so that was sort of thenarrative there.
So the short answer is no, Ididn't start speaking about it
probably until I was inuniversity and just having

(36:14):
exposure to other people's waysof living and realizing wait a
minute, this life that I've beenliving is not quite it.
There's other ways to live, andrecognizing that, so yeah, of
course, now I speak about itvery very openly of course but
yeah you know the line that yousaid, that the children in the
house are seen and not heard.

It just hit me because it's the reality of so
many households and I would say,like the indian households,
right yeah, possibly immigranthouseholds, because I hear this
I've worked in over two decadeswith, uh, with immigrants from
all over the world, and thatseems to be the way like
children, you respect yourelders.

You don't talk back, you don't question
anything, you do as you're told.
Absolutely it's.
It's like a one-way street and,um, that always has felt a
little bit like.
But I'm a person too.
As a child I've even felt thatI have opinions and and why
can't I question anything?
And even if you did it in themost polite way, it was still

(37:17):
taken as you're being rude.

You're questioning the authority of
parents or elders, so yeah, youknow, along with all this that
you have just told us, you know,was there at any way the weight
of carrying your past that cameinto the picture in, in my
childhood specifically, or or upuntil this day and time I would

(37:42):
say up until the time where youwere building a life in canada
initial years initial years,yeah, um, even within the
community.

Uh, people would look at me and and know, uh, it
was almost with that.
I heard the word bachari a lotin my childhood and that means
poor one right A poor thing,poor little one or poor girl
rough translation and that sortof was my story Poor thing, she
lost her dad was killed.

(38:14):
She doesn't have a brother, shedoesn't have a father.
Now she's living here, you know, with her aunt and uncle, and I
didn't feel like a bajadi right.
So that's still one of my let'scall it trigger words is don't
victimize me If somethinghappens to me.
I don't control that.

Absolutely.

And it's not my identity happens to me.
I don't control that Absolutelyand it's not my identity.
So, yes, you know, I, my family, was victimized by the 1984
riots.
But we are also more than that,right, complete people who are
living full lives.
We are, you know, happy, and ofcourse this, this tragedy, is
always with us.
But it shouldn't define us as,as that's, the family, the 1984

(39:00):
family.
So that's where my past, Iwould say it's less so now.
But growing up small town uh,that was I.
I could hear murmurings.
You know, you go to thegordoada, you hear people and
you can feel eyes staring at you, even behind your head, and you
know that that's, that's whatthey're thinking and that's your
definition.
In their eyes.

You can't really be anything more than that, yeah
, it becomes sort of like youridentity.
You know this is what thisperson is like, um.
On another note, I just want toknow did you pursue any hobbies
growing up in canada?
Um no not really okay iscleaning a hobby that's a that's

(39:41):
like a necessity, I don't know.
You're just forced to do that,you know yeah, I think that's,
that's my hobby.

I think even now, um, I'm a clean freak, and maybe
because it was such a stricthousehold that you're not
allowed to leave.
Uh, I just cleaned and so upuntil this day I've reflected on
it many times is that I keep myhouse meticulous.
Some people will come and sayit looks like a show home.
I do even live here, and Ithink it goes back to when you

(40:08):
can't control other things inlife.
Cleaning was one thing thathelped me control something.
So I would say even now itimpacts my mental health when
the house is dirty, things arenot organized.
Yeah, it's really interesting,right, so was it?
Was that a hobby?
I guess that was my hobby,because that's what I did with
my spare time, studying andcleaning.

Okay, so I'm also a little bit like you.
I'm not diagnosed with OCD, butI think I have that like a
minor.
Yeah, you know, I just curiousabout one OCD, but I think I
have that like a minor.
Yeah, you know, I was curiousabout one more thing.
You know, since you did have,like your, your obviously your
aunt is Punjabi and you weresurrounded by a lot of Indian
Punjabi families as well.
How would you say the cultureapart from this, you know

(40:55):
orthodox thinking, patriarchalthinking, it impacted you.
I'm talking about the songs andthe music and you know how did
that sort of uh impacted yourupbringing yeah, it was
definitely a big part of my life.

We had, uh, so I mentioned I went back to india
for a couple of years and so Ilearned how to read and write
finjabi.
Okay, and then when I came backwe would have I think the
newspaper was calledIndo-Canadian Times that was
delivered and I made the effortto read it because I wanted to
stay on top of Punjabi, you know, like to know how to read and

(41:30):
write it and I still canfluently but also like movies
were a big part, or attendingfunctions where dance and all of
that was we had.
My uncle was into hostingsingers, so we had, like you
know, Muhammad Sadiq Ranjit Garliving at our house whenever

(41:51):
they would do a show in Canada.
So I have pictures of myself asa, as a young child, hanging out
with them, you know.
So music is a big part of mylife today.
I love to dance, I love Gita, Ilove Bhangra, so I've made the
effort to learn all the folksongs.
Whenever I went back to IndiaI'd be singing about things that
I, and then people would jokeyou've never seen these things,

(42:14):
but you're seeing it as ifyou've lived the life here.
But it was just.
I love those pieces of ourculture and I've embraced them.
I still do it to this point,and both my daughters are in
Gita and Fangra as well.
So just passing on the beautyand the fun and the connection
that is a part of our culture.

Okay, you know, since you mentioned your
daughters, I want to talk verybriefly about you know your
marriage and also, like, fromthere on, you got on to your
healing journey.
You know, following yourdivorce, right, and this one
question I have for you is tellme that what were some of the

(42:57):
expectations placed on you as adaughter that you realized later
you needed to unlearn?
Tell me about that.

This whole being somebody else's property, and
those words weren't used.
But that was the message.
You learn to cook because yourduty is to serve others.
And it wasn't serving in a niceway, it wasn't like a seva way,
it was more of a submissive way.

Sort of.

Yeah, yeah, like you ask for permission, you know
, don't do this.
And a lot of things gotwhenever I asked can I do this
after you're married?
Can I go here after you'remarried?
Can I go here after you'remarried?
So your freedom became linkedto a man, this unknown face,
somewhere in your future from avery young age.

(43:50):
And then I do believe that eventoday, girls will often,
sometimes marry young, end upmarrying the wrong person
because they're really hungeringfor that freedom that parents
don't give while they're inthere under their roof, and that
is unfortunate.
I think it ends up in girlsmarrying for the wrong reason,

(44:11):
just to get out, just to have alittle bit of fresh air, and
then that often means you gofrom a ditch into a well right
Because you don't get what youneed when you're with your
parents.
And then that often means yougo from a ditch into a well
right Because you don't.
You don't get what you needwhen you're with your parents,
and that, I think, is a parent'sjob, is you're not raising
someone's daughter in law,you're raising your child, leave
it there and the values comeright.

(44:32):
So that's sort of been part ofmy own reflective journey is
like why was I told all of thesethings?
Why wasn't I taught that I needto learn to cook so I could
feed my own self, not to feedthis future family Right, which
is then.
There's nothing wrong with that, but the reasons that you do it

(44:53):
should be clear should be clear.

I see, and talk a little bit about your daughters
also, right, Since you are sortof instilling that a different
version of reality to them whichwas not told to you growing up,
you know, and also since youremarried after that, you know
there were certain stigmasaround that as well.
Tell me about the kind ofresistance that you face were
certain stigmas around that aswell.

Tell me about the kind of resistance that you face
.
I would say resistance.
I stayed in my first marriageit was to a Punjabi man because
of the messaging that I hadreceived in my own life.
You know, you marry and it'sfor life, and you leave your
husband's home, on your, on yourdeathbed kind of thing.
Like that was sort of thenarrative and that's it's for

(45:42):
life and I agree with it to acertain extent, but it depends
on what that married life lookslike.
Is it at the risk of yourmental health, your physical,
emotional, financial, all ofthat well-being, what are you
giving?
And so for me was you know,looking at my two daughters and
saying what is the message mylife will send to them?

(46:04):
And I didn't want to be ahypocrite.
So I couldn't tell them to dosomething that I hadn't done,
that I didn't have the guts todo.
So that sort of became theflame for me is I'm not going to
be a liar in their eyes.
I'm going to do something thatI stand by, that I've done.
I'm going to go through thefire and if tomorrow they need
to go through the fire, thenthey know that here's somebody

(46:26):
who has that lived experience ofit.
So a lot of it was, I would sayI, the things that I expected.
I expected my family not tounderstand, but they were
amazing.
My, my family was like whydidn't you tell us anything
years?

ago.

They were 150% on board.
So it was more my ownmisconceptions based on societal
input that I had had all ofthese years, that I was actually
kind of surprised to have myown small family support Now in
terms of wider society.
Sure, people make assumptionsand it's usually the woman that

(47:02):
is.
She probably didn't try as hardenough, or I can't believe
she's doing this At this pointin her life.
She's not thinking about herkids, she's being selfish.
That narrative of just like suckit up it's you know, the man
will change after a certainamount of time or with old age,
and it's a short life, but it'sa long life.

(47:24):
When you're you're with thewrong person and if you're
feeling you know a certain wayevery day, that time is not that
short.
And then what happens toyourself?
You lose yourself.
So I didn't know who I was, andit's taken time to find out who
I am without these layers ofother people, people's

(47:47):
expectations around me.

You know, one of my guests was talking about a
similar struggle as yours andshe used this line called.
She said I don't want to be afootnote in someone else's story
and I love that, yeah that'sbeautiful.

Yeah, I love quotes, so if we talk long
enough, I'm sure I'll throw insome other quotes in there,
whether they're Punjabi orEnglish.
But it's basically realizingthat that part of your story has
a comma behind it, not a period.
It's going to continue Right,and in my mind it had a period
that it was done.
This is it.

(48:25):
I made a decision now tilldeath, do us apart, and that was
it Right.
So, also recognizing it's acomma, you have life ahead of
this.
This is only one chapter.

You can start the second chapter after this
horrible thing that's happenedlike there was a lack of safe

(49:01):
space for you to talk about yourdoubts and your curiosities and
your sort of like questionsthat you had right.

Absolutely yeah, and this is something that my
daughter, my oldest daughter,asked me.
She was probably 12 or 13.
And even in her young mind atthat time she asked me one day
Mama, it must have been reallyhard for you.
I don't see, like, in ourgatherings and stuff, I don't
see a lot of people like youthat are divorced.
How hard was it for you?
Because she's right, and manyof our circles and our

(49:28):
gatherings and family, friendsand stuff, I'm the anomaly.
And for her to recognize thatas a at a young age, says
something as well, that it'sthat obvious the precedent set
for us to follow that as a at ayoung age, uh, says something as
well that it's that obvious thethe precedent set for us to
follow, that you suffer insilence, you suffer behind
closed doors and you put on thishappy face, um, and keep going,

(49:49):
because it's all about keepingup that, that appearance yeah,
for others, yeah.

I think that observation also spoke about
your upbringing and the kind ofmorals and principles you are
instilling in them.
You, you know.
So hats off to you, jyoti.
I love that.

Thank you, thank you so much.
That is one of my biggest tasksin life is to be a good mother
and to pass on generationalhealing and not generational
trauma.
No-transcript a blanketstatement that every single

(50:53):
person is going through this soto anybody listening as well.
This is not me painting ourculture with a negative brush,
but there is a pattern.
If you really stand and reflect, there is a pattern, the
messaging.
Just listen to the top fivesongs that are out there today
and you'll notice a theme andthey're telling women where

(51:15):
their value is and men wheretheir value is right.
Women where their value is andmen where their value is Right.
So I think it takes a lot tounpeel that onion of you know
and you're somewhere deep in thecore there and to realize you
might not even know who you arebecause you've been told by
society this is your expectation, you're going to do this and
this X, y and Z and then afterthat you get married, you have

(51:38):
kids and it would be great ifone of them is a boy and then
you know you go on, you have acareer, but the career should
accommodate the family and youstill should be able to be happy
at the end of the day and cookand clean and take care of your
in-laws and all of this stuff.

(52:00):
So there's this, if you look atit, in checkboxes.
There's an extensive checkboxeswhere when it comes to women
versus males in our culture, andso that would be my message is
to think, sit and think aboutwhat have I been told and what
is the truth.
Because our way of life is notthe only way of life, and that's
the beauty of living in a placelike Canada, because you get to

(52:22):
see other ways of life and thenyou get to shed some light into
your dim corners of your mindto say, wait a minute, women
here are not living like this orin this particular one or my
colleague, and they're happy,they're content colleague and

(52:42):
they're happy, they're content.
So what's going on to shake someof that and to to demand
respect for yourself?
I think it's kind of likelayers of brick being piled on
us over and over again and wejust sort of cower under the
burden.
But I think if you stand up alittle bit you might see a
different view and I think, pickand choose what is important to
you, and I'm not saying throwout, you know everything that is
there.

(53:02):
There's so much beauty there.
But I think the pieces that askyou to reduce your light
question those.
Your light is not meant to bereduced, you're meant to shine.
You were sent here on thisearth.
You're given this one beautifullife.
What do you want to leave with?
What do you want this world toleave with that?

(53:23):
You've made really round rotis,or what right?

yeah, wow, so so inspiring and I love that you
said that question the piecesthat really stop you from
shining bright.
You know, I love that.
I really hope this instill thatconfidence and encouragement in
people listening to this.
So, and if anybody wants toreach out to you, jyoti, can
they reach out to you, just havea conversation or kind of share

(53:48):
their journey with you wherethey can connect I'm going to
share that information with you.

Uh, it would be most likely.
I would give my email addressas a means of connection.

Okay, perfect.
I'll put the links to that inthe show notes as well.
So, jyoti, before we get intothe final segments, I want to
briefly talk about your careerthat you are in, what made you
go into that and what is allabout.

I think, my lived and living experiences.
So this I shared the quoteearlier with my favorite movie
quote that's always been sort ofthe fire burning inside of me
is the injustice, whether it'sagainst women, against people as
a whole.
What happened to my family isquestioning that unfairness that
happens in our society based onpieces of identity that we

(54:36):
don't choose.
I didn't choose to be born agirl.
I didn't choose to be born agirl.
I didn't choose to be born intoa Punjabi Sikh family, but then
my trajectory in life wasimpacted by that and so a lot of
people have that happen to them, where there's pieces of
themselves that are not theirchoosing, but they get treated
differently in society becauseof it.
So I've been in the area ofgiving voices to marginalized

(55:00):
people who don't have thatadvantage, you know, and
fighting for their advantagesand because the society is not
fair, we don't all live the samelife, there are definitely
systemic wrongs that have beenhappening historically that
still happen to current days.
So those are the fields thatI've been in, you know, in terms

(55:21):
of equity, in terms ofinclusion, belonging,
anti-racism and giving voices,and my work has mostly been in
education.
So, whether it's having theseconversations facilitating
curiosity, planting seeds inpeople's minds to say, just
because something's been done acertain way does not mean it's

(55:42):
right or that it should staythat way.
Absolutely so that would be myask for for everyone.
Listening today is like startquestioning some of those things
that have become normalized inyour life.
Maybe there's a little inch ofyou inside that's like I didn't.
I don't like the way this is.
Dig a bit deeper.
What's a different way to lookat it and how can we shift that

(56:07):
so that it doesn't create, uh,totally different outcomes for
people?

yeah, wow, I think you have articulated it
perfectly.
There's nothing to add from myend.
Um, all right, so so, before weget into the final segment,
I've added this new segment inthis season.
I call it to know your host,where I give my guests an
opportunity to ask me anyquestion they might have oh,
very interesting.

um, you had mentioned in our our um
conversation before this podcastrecording about your own
journey, so I'm actuallyinterested as the baby of your
family, not an only son.
What has changed for you?
So go to cease from when he was14.

(56:52):
Let's say I'm going to pick upan age where you're just coming
into your sense of identity.
Now what?
What are your top two thingsthat you've learned that have
changed?

You know it's funny, you said 14th, like 14
years of age, because that wasexactly the time where, when my
both sisters got married I wasactually I just turned 14, my
both sisters got married andit's just, you know, my parents
and me in the house, and I thinkthat's where my biggest
realization happened that I justcouldn't see my mother being

(57:26):
the only person running in andout and doing everything and all
the chores of the house.
It it really hit me.
I don't know how or why me, atsuch a young age, observed that,
even though my upbringing andmy sort of the initial lessons
sort of like taught to me werevery patriarchal.

(57:46):
But I don't know how, it sortof hit me.
But I think it was because itwas my mother and you know I was
very close to her as well and Ijust saw her and I just
couldn't fathom the way she wasrunning in and out and serving
chapati, serving totis and andwhen the guests are there, you
know, cooking meals for like Idon't know 100 people.
I'm like why is this happening?

(58:06):
I don't know what happened.
Then I started helping her witheverything, literally everything
.
I would go, I would help herserve the things and do this and
that, and and that's where Iwas questioned that why are you
doing it?
You know, guys, don't do it,just stop it.
You know, and because I live ina joint family and I was always
questioned on some of thethings that I was doing because,

(58:27):
number one, I had two sistersand I saw that they had opinions
, they had thoughts, because Iwas part of the closed room
discussions where nobody elsewas, I was right there, I was a
tiny tot, but I think again,like you said, I could sense the
energies I could really under.
I think I was a very, very goodobserver even back then and I
was able to really absorb fewthings which I couldn't question

(58:48):
.
But then I started doing it andto the point of me coming to
canada and me started cookingmyself and discovering a life,
uh, discovering a chef within me.
That was also questioned by myown family initially, that you
know, why are you cooking?
You know, guys don't cook, youknow whatever.
And now it's been six, sevenyears and I do it, and now

(59:09):
they're proud of me.
Oh, wow, you can do this also,you can cook this also, this
cuisine and that cuisine.
So I think it really startedright from the time when my
sisters got married, that mythis, this thought of you know
why women has to do everythingand why certain things are not
given permission to sort of themto do.
Why is that?
You know, because I saw mysisters got married.

(59:30):
I saw they had opinions, I sawthat sometimes they are more of
a decision maker than mybrother-in-laws.
You know their husbands, I sawthat happen.
And then they had children.
You know I see how they werebringing their children up.
So that really, I think, sortof shaped my understanding of it
also.
Then I came to Canada and Ithink here just getting exposed
to people from all kinds ofcultures, all sort of religions,

(59:51):
and living in shared spaceswhere I'm living with people
from six different religions,you know, which I never heard
about sometimes, and then Iunderstanding their cultures,
understanding their upbringings,and then you realize that, okay
, there are a lot of things thatwere fed to me, sort of like
shoved down my throat growing up, which are not serving me
anymore and I really have tounlearn.

(01:00:13):
For example, not seeing a womanboss.
Why is that, whenever the wordboss comes to my mind, not
seeing a woman boss?
Why is that whenever the theword boss comes to my mind.
Why always picture a guy withina suit?
Why is that?
You know?
But whereas I know my sistersare very strong and I know the
people I've met throughout mylife, the women are extremely
strong.
Why is that?
So I start questioning that andI think that really impacted my

(01:00:33):
initial years here in Canadabecause I didn't know that these
things exist.
But then eventually I think Iunlearned and relearned and also
realizing that it's okay tofeel emotions, right, no matter
the emotions are happy, sad,angry, creative, whatever.
These are just emotion and theneed to be embraced.
That will benefit me today andin the future years, all the

(01:00:54):
relationships I get into in mylife, in a professional,
personal.
So yeah, these are the fewthings I would say has really
helped me become like a goodasses 2.0 in Canada, which I
didn't have the understanding orsort of the ability to question
or sort of even the I'll tellyou also the time to question,

(01:01:15):
because when you are in thatspace you never really have the
time to reflect.
You are around so much noise,so much hustle and bustle
happening around you that Inever got the personal time or
the personal space to reflectuntil it came pandemic and I
actually had the time to reflectthat.
Okay, what is it that'sactually making me feel good and

(01:01:36):
what is not making me feel good, you know?
So that's where I would saythis is how my evolution has
been, and thanks to me cominghere and living in Canada.

Jyoti Grewal (01:01:45):
Yeah, that's so beautiful.
Can I ask a follow up question?
Sure, so go to CIS 2.0.
Are you doing anything to, inyour areas of influence with
your, the male members of yourfamily, let's say, be it your
dad, you know, cousins, thatkind of a thing, brother in laws

(01:02:06):
to sort of have like a rippleeffect?
Because I think each of us is abeacon of power based on the
people we touch Right.
I don't believe that we arepowerless, so anything in that
regard.

Gurasis Singh (01:02:20):
I'll give you an example which I analogy.
Basically I use a lot WheneverI talk about speaking with
elders.
I say imagine there's a65-story building in front of
you and you are like at your25th, 26th, wherever the floor
you are at, and if you want torenovate yourself, you can break

(01:02:40):
it one by one and maybe you'llbe able to do it.
But on the other side, ifyou'll mess with it too much,
it's going to fall right at youand you'll be hurt.
So what I try to do is I findthe middle ground where I can
make the elder people understandmy point of view on things.
The people understand my pointof view and things.

(01:03:02):
So that's how I've been doingit.
Uh, for the younger generation,I would say, just because
everybody's so much exposed tothe internet today, I think a
lot of my cousins and my familyunderstand my point of views,
where I'm coming from, fromvarious topics.
But I think it's the oldgeneration.
I really make a consciouseffort to sit with them and have
those difficult conversationswith them.

(01:03:22):
To the point of women working.
To the point of women, eventhough they don't like cooking,
it's fine.
Or even to the point of gettingtogether and starting a
business, why not, you know?
So that's the point of things.
I think I really make an effortto have a discussion within my
family settings.
Yeah, beautiful, thank you.

(01:03:43):
Wow, such a unique questions.
Thank you for that.
All right, so now we're in thefinal segment.
I call it beneath the accent.
I'm going to ask a couple ofquestions.
You can answer them in one wordor a sentence, or how.
So you feel like the idea isjust to know more about you.
It's like a rapid fire, okay.
Rapid fire, okay, okay.

(01:04:06):
So what advice would you giveto a younger self, and at what
age?

16.

Break some rules okay, and what would you like to
say to your 60 year old self?

it's all okay okay , okay.

Describe a moment when you experienced a
significant cultural differencethat surprised you.
Repeat that for me one moretime please Describe a moment
when you experienced asignificant cultural difference
that surprised you.

The first time I saw someone put water on their
husband's feet and drink it noway really, yeah, okay all sorts
of things with that one okaythat's so bizarre, okay?

um, what's that?
One dish from your home countrythat always brings you comfort
and nostalgia?

Saag makki roti.
Yes.

Okay, what's your favorite cultural festival or
celebration in Canada, and howdo you usually celebrate it?

At Diwali.
I long for Diwali in India that.
I'll remember because of courseI was there the first seven
years, but I don't remember.
Here we celebrate by going tothe Gurdwara, by going to our
families, my sister's house, andthen my mom will always do a
prayer.
You know, the kids get gifts,money, usually the kids get

(01:05:56):
gifts money usually, and justthat collection of visiting
people's houses, giving sweets,and this joyous moment of
literally lighting, you know,vias lamps around our house, in
front of our house, and I thinkit's just full of hope and
connection, okay, and anycultural festival in.

(01:06:18):
Canada that you celebrate.
I guess I celebrate Christmasto a point, not the religious
aspect of it, but we put up atree, we do the gifts and again
it's more of the family and theconnection piece of it together.

Okay, I see.

Is there a friend that you came to Canada in your
initial years and are you stillin connect with them?
Different phases in life I havesometimes it's my own decision,
I would say mostly it's been mydecision to cut off connections
because the narrative that theystill held on to wasn't serving

(01:07:08):
me and allowing me to move on.

Okay, if you had to describe yourself as any
creature, what would it be andwhy?
I see myself as a lion Okay.

Sometimes with my big hair, physically.
But I think I have a veryprotective nature and if there
is something that I want to diginto and stand by, then my claws
come out and I stand big andprotect whatever it is behind me
that I'm trying to protect.

Awesome, and if you could have one superpower,
what would it be?

Wow, that's a tough question.
I'm trying not to gosuperficial, like the ability to
fly or something right, becausethat would be a cool factor.
I don't know if it would serveanybody anywhere with me flying
around everywhere um and thenfalling down with the weight of
snow falling.
Yes, or being eaten by an eagle,or something like that.

(01:08:20):
I think it would be more theability to mold, because I think
there's so much.
You know, we often say if theworld had more women leaders, we
would have less wars, betterdecision making power.
So, not the ability to like, beable to read people's minds,
but the ability to be able toconvince people about the

(01:08:42):
greater good, solve some of ourissues like poverty and like
these silly wars that we come upagainst and we use those and
focus on them rather than thereal problems that the world has
.
Okay, think about that onedeeper.
Maybe you'll get an email fromme tomorrow.

Okay, if you could create this one law that
everybody has to follow, whoeverit be.

Kindness.
So before you open your mouth,before you make a decision,
think about is this helpful, Isit necessary and is it kind?
And I think in there you'll adecision.
Think about is this helpful, Isit necessary and is it kind?
And I think in there, wrappedup, you'll find who is it
harming and maybe you'll take abetter decision.

Absolutely Okay.
So home is where the heart is.
If you had to choose one thingthat makes you feel most at home
in Canada, what would it be?

Obviously my family my husband, children, my
mom is where my home is, but ifwe're looking at non-human
things, it would be a good cupof ja, okay.

So finally, describe Canada in one word or a
sentence Complex.

Why would you say that Complexity in everything,
in the people, in the differentcultures we have, in the changes
that happen to people once theyget off that airplane, from the
first time to the end of theirtime?
Here it's complex, and incomplex is the good and the bad.

Wow, absolutely yeah.
And if you could leave me Jyotiwith one piece of advice, what
would it be?

Keep doing what you're doing.
Me, jyoti, with one piece ofadvice.
What would it be?
Keep doing what you're doing?
Um, I have to say I onlyrecently met you, but I am so
proud of you, uh, for picking upthe torch on this and, um,
especially being a male, andyou're doing it.
Even the name of your podcastis just like you're putting
whatever the stigma is in bright, shining lights and saying here

(01:10:58):
is and here is what someonewith a thick accent is capable
of doing, because I think you're, you're being a beacon for
people to discuss these issues,for individuals like myself to,
to share our experiences,because I know that I'm not
alone in my experience.
You know you're not alone inyour experiences and it just
takes a few of us to rise up anddiscuss this and help others.

(01:11:21):
So thank you for what you'redoing.

Thank you for kind words and, lastly, how
would you describe yourexperience being on the podcast
today?

you on the phone, so I was quite comfortable and I
knew it was going to be just agreat conversation and I.
You have a very calming way andyou're vulnerable, so it allows
your speaker to be vulnerableas well.
So I appreciate that and I hopeyou keep doing that and using
your voice right for the greatergood.
But I think this is such awonderful idea, absolutely.

And was this something that you had like a
certain expectation from thepodcast, and how was it like?

I.
My expectation was we're goingto have a conversation about
some important things, butbecause I'm the subject matter
expert of my own life, I wasn'tworried.
No notes, no research wasnecessary.
This is I'm speaking from myheart, my head, and that's
exactly how it went.
I'm looking at the time.
I don't know where it went.
My heart, my head, and that'sexactly how it went.
I'm looking at the time.
I don't know where it went.
It was very quick and I thankyou for that as well, for making

(01:12:25):
it easy for me.

Okay, awesome.
Thank you for saying that andthank you for being on the
podcast and adding value to meand to my listeners.
Thank you, absolutely.
Thank you for having me.

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Surviving 1984: A Daughter's Journey Through Grief and Stigma | Ft. Jyoti Grewal Ep. 071 [Season 2 Finale]

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Surviving 1984: A Daughter's Journey Through Grief and Stigma | Ft. Jyoti Grewal Ep. 071 [Season 2 Finale]