November 2, 2023 • 43 mins
Skeletons in the house, dead bodies on display, scandalous secrets, and more!
Today we explore the fascinating history behind the idiom 'Skeletons in the Closet'.
Hold on to your seats as we uncover historical theories that range from family secrets to bone-chilling stories of literal skeletons found in the house. This journey takes us all the way back to 1800s England, as we grapple with how a simple saying could evolve into a metaphor for hidden secrets that could ruin one's reputation if revealed, and even spark a sexual revolution!
Join us for a laughter-filled deep dive into the secrets we all keep hidden!
Stiff - Mary Roach
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What did you like and what would you want to see in the future? Which idiom do you want us to explore next time? If you have any insight on today's topic, something I missed or didn’t get right, or if you want to be featured in a future What the Idiom? segment let me know.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Hey, podcast fans, I'm your unoriginal podcaster
and host, Afton Jay.
I started this podcast becauseI've always loved fun facts,
history and culture.
I consume so many books andpodcasts that it just made sense
I would find friends out therethat loved some of the same
things that I do and boom, myunoriginal thought podcast was
(00:59):
born.
I don't know how many othernerds out there will want to
hear about the fascinating worldof idioms, but we're going to
go on this adventure together.
None of what I will talk abouttoday is my original thoughts,
but I will attempt to repackageother people's ideas and talk
through them so we can learn andlaugh together.
I'm going to try to bring youthe most interesting useless
(01:21):
knowledge in the mostthought-provoking and
entertaining way.
I know how Every episode willfeature a new idiom, phrase,
proverb or saying that we canexplore.
I will bring in backstory,history, current books, articles
and experts to help us unpackall that these culturally
relevant sayings have to offer.
Okay, let's get into it.
(01:42):
Whether you're listening inyour car, on the way to work,
cleaning the house at theairport or wherever you are, I
hope you enjoy our episode.
Today's episode is the Skeletonsin the Closet.
I'm really excited about thisone.
It has been one of my favoriteidioms for a while, and when I
got into the research I wasblown away at the history behind
(02:04):
this popular phrase.
Not only does this saying havea long history with many
possible origins, but it alsochanged over time to be one of
the most powerful, culturallyrelevant sayings of today.
Get ready for a wild ride as Itake you through this episode's
idiom.
First of all, the saying "ASkeleton in your Closet is an
(02:24):
idiom.
There are several differenttypes of idioms phrases, prose
proverbs and sayings that we'lltalk about on this show, and I
will always try to be correct inmy terminology, but for all of
you English and language mastersout there, feel free to correct
me or pardon me if I'm not 100%right all of the time.
An idiom is a group of wordsestablished by usage as having a
(02:46):
meaning not deductible fromthose of the individual words.
An example of this is "barkingup the wrong tree Once in a blue
moon.
Skeletons in your closetShameless plug.
We'll be talking about some ofthese other idioms in the future
, so tune in Anyway.
So where did this idiom comefrom and why the heck would you
have skeletons in your closet?
(03:08):
Here's the part of the showwhere we play the super fun game
What The idiom?
where we have unsuspectingfriends.
uess where they think theorigin of this week's phrase
comes from?
So let's jump into it with ourfirst unsuspecting friend.
(03:29):
But I mean, they're super,super interesting.
Like so, the one that I'mworking on right now, the one
that I thought was going to be,like I didn't realize it was
going to be this interesting,but is skeletons in the closet?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, so.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I thought I knew the origin and then, when I
researched it, I realized thatthere's actually multiple
different possibilities for theorigin and like I don't know if
you've ever thought about it,but if you had a thought, where
do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
it comes from.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Where would it come from?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Skeletons in the closet.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
The only thing I can think of is like the Catholic
church.
Did it come from them?
Like Europe, somewhere fromEurope, ia where it started?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, like you mean the Catholic church, like having
bodies or having secrets.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
No secrets, like secrets.
Not the physical body, I'mthinking it's more religious.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That is super interesting and I can see where
you would think that it doescome from the English time
period, 1800s.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yep, that's a really good guess.
That is actually not one of thetheories is coming from the
religious church, but definitelyan interesting guess that I
would have never thought about.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Okay, I love this !yes, so I will keep you on the
hook that way you have to listento the podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yes, okay, that was definitely a good theory.
We're on the right lines, butwe're not just there.
Yet let's hear from our secondguesser.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah, I was hoping it was going to be like something
profound, like there was aspecific dude in England 400
years ago who everyone thoughtwas super cool.
He was the town dentist.
Everyone loved him.
And fight t h This Thismotherfucker was killing people
and soaking them in acid,keeping their skull, their
(05:48):
skeletons in like perfectanatomical position and like
hanging them in a y so that youcould like sleep with them at
night .
And then from that point onthat was w th one we had
skeletons in his closet and thenit's like more from there.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
we're getting closer.
That was a great story that weWe're made up to go along with
our idiom.
But our third guesser might beon the right track.
I'll just I'll ask you do you,do where the origin is, where
the origin of skeleton in thecloset comes from?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
I would assume it's because of like.
If I had to guess, I'd say it'slike an Edgar Allen Poe
reference or something from likesome poem in the Victorian, you
know, medieval, edwardian times, when there were lots of like
the origin of horror, and therewas like some poem that there
was a skeleton in the closet andthat it's some sort of
(06:54):
entomology from there.
That's what I would guess.
Is that right, or is it even no?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's actually there's multiple theories and that is
one of them, so that's a reallygood guess.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I'm very excited to hear the actual origination
etymology.
Speaker 6 (07:18):
Yes!! we do?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
podcast.
It's gonna be so much fun.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'm like trying to decide if I make you listen.
I'm just gonna make you listento the podcast.
I'm not even gonna tell youwhat I found, because I was like
no way, yes, yes, I can't wait.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I cannot wait.
This is gonna be awesome, yeah,okay.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All of these guesses are so funny.
Thank you to all of ourcontestants on what the Idiom.
Now let's go back to the actualorigin story.
As we know today, this phrasemeans a hidden source of
something scandalous or shameful.
It is most commonly used whenreferring to something in the
(07:57):
past that will cause potentialruin to a person or a group of
people when exposed.
It also signifies anundisclosed fact about a person
that would damage their socialstanding among the community if
it were revealed.
A skeleton can vary from thingsyou've done, such as a lie, a
betrayal or even somethingextreme like murder, but it
(08:18):
doesn't always have to be dark.
Some skeletons may be of theembarrassing nature, such as an
awkward moment that we don'twant to share.
I think we all have someskeletons in the closet and we
can all use this idiom everyonce in a while.
But where does it come from?
The most interesting thing isthat there are several different
(08:38):
theories about the origin ofthis phrase.
I had only ever heard of one ofthese theories before I started
researching, but I can see anyof them being the real origin.
So since most of these theoriescome from around the same time
frame, I can see how they getall be part of the reason why
the phrase is so prevalent, andthey all started around the
1800s.
(08:59):
First of all, the phrase hasbeen stated two ways.
You can say a skeleton in thecloset or, in some cases, a
skeleton in the cupboard.
I've personally never heard ofa skeleton in the cupboard, but
in the 18th century English,where this phrase originates
from, a cupboard could mean ahiding place.
There's a closet could mean awater closet, bathroom or
(09:20):
wardrobe and as the sayingtraveled to the United States,
we generally tended to use theword closet instead of cupboard,
although I might try saying itin the old English style from
now on.
Like I have a skeleton in thecupboard, I'll let you know how
that goes the next time I use it.
But anyway, no matter if youuse closets or cupboards, the
(09:43):
meaning is always the same itmeans that you are hiding
something embarrassing orscandalous.
So how did we get the skeletonsin the closet?
Do they mean real skeletons ormetaphoric skeletons?
And the answer is yes.
One of the first instances ofthis phrase being printed was an
article by William HenryStowell published in 1816,
(10:06):
united Kingdom's MonthlyPeriodical, the Electric Review.
I'm sure everyone out theresubscribes to this important
periodical, but for those thathave skipped that month's
edition, let me review it foryou.
It was used to discuss theshame of a disease that is
infectious or hereditary.
Because whatever horribledisease Mr.
Stowell was discussing, he wassaying that it might leave a
(10:28):
legacy of shame or dread on thefamily.
And then you had the potentialof passing it along and fear of
making the families concealthose skeletons in their closets
.
Can you imagine hiding dad inyour closet so no one finds him
out of shame, y you and ick.
Another theory and the theory inwhich I thought this phrase was
(10:51):
based off, was the expressioncame from the infamous era of
body snatchers.
Both of these ideas come fromaround the same time frame, so
maybe both are a little bit true.
Anyways, before 1832, when thelaw was changed in parliament,
the use of corpses for medicalresearch was frowned upon by
British royalty and parliament.
(11:11):
R t this date, only the bodiesthey could dissect for medical
purposes were those that camefrom executed criminals.
Although the execution ofcriminals was far from rare in
18th century Britain, it wasvery unlikely that a doctor
would be lucky enough to stumbleacross many corpses during his
professional working life.
It was therefore commonpractice for a doctor that had
(11:33):
the good fortune to dissect oneof the corpses of an executed
criminal to keep that skeletonfor research purposes for as
long as possible.
Again, y and ick.
Public opinion would not permitdoctors to keep skeletons on
open view in their surgeries, sothey had to hide them, even if
they couldn't actually see them.
Most people suspected thatdoctors kept skeletons somewhere
(11:55):
and the most logical placewould have been the cupboard or
closet.
The Anatomy Act was an act of1832 in parliament that
legislated to increase legalaccess to human cadavers for
medical schools.
The reason for the change inthe law was due to the increase
in enrollment of medicalstudents in British anatomy
schools at the time and therewas a bunch of widely publicized
(12:18):
cases of bodies snatching forprofit.
The act, which was first posedunsuccessfully in 1828, before
its successful 1832 revision,established two major changes to
the existing.
legislation.
.
Firstly, that a newlyestablished inspector's office
would issue and manage anatomylicenses for which all
(12:39):
physicians and medical studentsassociated with the anatomy
schools were now eligible, andsecondly, that any person who
died without a personal writtenobjection or without the
presence of family members toobject on that person's behalf,
could be conveyed for dissectionfor anatomy schools.
So we have gone from it's weirdand illegal to have a body to
(12:59):
anyone can get a body if nobodyobjects.
Weird, flex, but it's all forthe advancements of science,
right?
You also have the theory thatit came from gothic novels of
the Victorian era.
Edgar Allan Poe used the imageryof skeletons and secrets quite
effectively in his literaryworks.
There are two instances whereEdgar Allan Poe used the imagery
(13:21):
of skeletons in the closet todrive a point home in his
writing.
In his piece called the BlackCat from 1845, he recounts the
way a character dispelled thesuspicions of others regarding
his wife's mysterious death when, seemingly afraid of any
further consequences, he smackedthe wall that hid his wife's
corpse while the inspectors werein the home.
(13:43):
In a turn of the story, thewall fell in and his accusers
saw the literal skeleton in hiscloset, or in this case, the
wall.
Edgar Allan Poe also used theconcept behind this phrase in
his poetic masterpieces,including the Raven and
Annabelle, which are classicpoems about regret.
A skeleton in the closet laterdeveloped into the idea of
(14:05):
referring to grim evidence of acrime or murder.
Famous Victorian author WilliamMakepeace t K adopted the
phrase and used it in hisliterary pieces in novels.
In an 1845 piece, he referredto a skeleton in every house,
and in another piece from 1854to 1555, he explicitly mentioned
the exact phrase skeletons inclosets.
(14:27):
It was never known whether hewas suggesting actual skeletons
that were inside people's homesor whether he was merely using a
phrase to aid his reader'simagination, like Edgar Allen
Poe did years earlier.
As much of this idiom isgenerally seen as figurative,
one English philosopher decidedto give it a literal turn.
Jeremy Bentham, an 18th centuryto 19th century philosopher,
(14:50):
was the only real skeleton inthe closet in his time.
In his will, Bentham decided topreserve his skeleton in a
wooden closet with a glass front, which would then be publicly
displayed in the University ofCollege in London.
Humans have always had aninteresting and odd fascination
with death and human remains.
Some would see the displayingof human remains or keeping of
(15:13):
remains as disrespectful.
Obviously this happened in 18thcentury England and they've
proven that, but other culturesused remains for scientific
research and proudly displayedthem, such as the Egyptian
culture.
Mr.
Bentham was not the firstperson to want to display his
body although it is aninteresting way to use your body
(15:33):
when you're gone but he was notthe first person to let people
ogle him, and neither was he thelast.
Today, this topic still sparksa great debate over the ethics
of using bodies for research anddisplay purposes.
In an amazingly interesting book, stiff, the Curious Lives of
Human Cadavers is a 2003nonfiction book by Mary Roach.
(15:56):
Stiff was a bestseller, a 2003Barnes Noble Discover Great New
Writers pick and one ofEntertainment Weekly's best
books of 2003.
It also won the Amazon.
com.
c Editor's Choice Award in 2003.
She has many different booksthat are very well researched
and written and I highlyrecommend her as a writer.
Stiff details the uniquescientific contributions of the
(16:20):
deceased.
In the book, roach gives afirst-hand account of cadavers,
a history of the use of cadaversand an exploration of the
surrounding ethical and moralissues of cadavers.
She places each chapter'scontent into historical context
and uses humor to make thesubject educational.
The chapters range s bodysnatching test dummies being
(16:41):
buried alive and so much more.
A book that sounds morbid andmacabre is actually very
informative and funny.
I definitely recommend thisbook to anyone.
The audio version was evenfunnier than the paper book
because the orator is reallygreat to listen to.
The link to the book is in theshow notes if you're interested.
Also another interesting topicto look into the history behind
(17:04):
the use of cadavers is thecontroversial exhibition Body
Worlds that started in 1995, orBodies, the Exhibit that started
in 2005.
They are two differentexhibitions that showcase human
bodies and they've beenpreserved through a process
called plastination.
I is used to easily display thebody and the body's systems.
(17:25):
If you've never heard of it.
The exhibit displays internalorgans and organic systems.
Displays are staged in activeposes and fetuses are used to
display various stages ofdevelopment.
I've seen it in Vegas and Iabsolutely loved it.
Every inch of the exhibit iscovered in fascinating facts and
I thought the displays werereally respectful and intriguing
(17:48):
.
I love learning about the humanbody and this is one of the
best exhibitions I've ever seen.
However, bodies has a dark past.
Concerns have been raised byhuman rights advocates that the
bodies on display are actuallythose of executed Chinese
prisoners and that the familiesof the victims have not
consented to the use.
The exhibitionists claim thatthe presumed origin of the
(18:10):
bodies and fetuses relies solelyon the representations of its
Chinese partners and that theycannot independently verify that
the bodies do not belong toexecuted prisoners.
During the exhibition'slifetime, there has been issues
that have come up.
A science education coordinatorfor the Carnegie Museum of
Science resigned her positionover the exhibit, citing her
(18:32):
religious beliefs, questionsabout the source of the bodies
and a general p for puttinghuman remains on exhibit.
Professor Anita Allen, aUniversity of Pennsylvania
bioethicist, argued spendingmoney to quote gawk at human
remains should raise seriousconcerns.
Thomas Hibbs, a BaylorUniversity professor, compares
cadaver displays to pornographyin that they reduce the subject
(18:55):
to the manipulation of bodyparts stripped of any larger
human significance.
Even if the consent wereobtained for the bodies, Rabbi
Danny Schiff maintains that weshould still question what
providing quote bodies arrangedin showcases for the hungry
public says about our society.
In 2017, in the Czech Republic,body of the exhibition was
(19:18):
taking place in Prague.
Four doctors and four nonprofitorganizations issued a
statement about the ethical andhuman rights concerns.
The statement called upon theorganizers to present consent of
the donors of the displayedbodies, if such documentation
even existed.
Today, the bodies' exhibits aremore strict with their donation
processes.
According to the Body Worldwebsite, the bodies belong to
(19:41):
people who declared during theirlifetime that their bodies
should be made available aftertheir death for the training of
physicians and the instructionof the layperson.
Many donors underscore that bydonating their body, they want
to be useful to others evenafter their death.
They state that they have over55,000 body donations, most of
(20:01):
which actually come from Germany.
You can also volunteer to be abody if you head over to their
website and sign up.
I do think it's interesting that, even after all of these years,
seeing, studying or looking athuman remains is such a divisive
topic.
It is still conjuring upfeelings of shame, disgust,
(20:21):
horror and embarrassment, whichis why I think this idiom, both
figuratively and literally, isso powerful.
Okay, we've taken a few turns,so let's get back to the
original origin story In theexpression skeleton in the
closet started to become morewidely used in America.
It morphed from actual deadpeople in your closet to mostly
(20:44):
referring to hiding somethingcriminal or shameful or
embarrassing.
So what kind of skeletons inyour closet are you keeping?
Would you be willing to share?
I found some friends that are,so let's find out what kind of
skeletons they are keepinghidden, just so you know this is
a recorded, or theoreticallyit's a recorded conversation.
(21:10):
I'm like trying out a new appwhere you can record phone calls
.
I'm like playing with differentlittle things that I could do
with the podcast, and one ofthem being like I could call
people and ask them where theythink the origins of these
things came from or if they havea funny story about them, which
I think would be hilarious.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Remember that time you shit your pants in the Kmart
.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Okay, first of all, that was you, that shit yourself
, and it was a library, so don'tget it.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
I shit my pants on a higher than average basis.
I'll be the first to admit that, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
See, and I'll never understand that theory, not once
have I ever been like I thinkI'm about to or like there's a
possibility of me shitting mypants.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
No, I'm good for two a year Minimum.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I recorded.
I would like to remind theaudience that everybody that
comes on this show knows theyare being recorded and they are
giving this information freely.
Okay, let's get back into somemore secrets.
So we're talking aboutskeletons in the closet.
Nobody knows who you are.
This is totally anonymous.
What skeleton in the closet doyou hide away?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Either shameful embarrassing, or do you
literally have dead bodies atyour house?
I don't think you do becauseI'm there, but maybe you do.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Oh my gosh.
You know there's always deadbodies in the closet.
I'm not coming for Thanksgiving, Skeletons in the closet.
I mean I feel like everyone didthis, but I feel like okay, so
I stole a pair of earrings as akid and like it's something I
(22:50):
think about very often becauseit is just not who I am today.
It's like something that I feelguilty about.
I was working a retail job, too, and I stole this pair of
earrings from the store that Iwas working at, and it like just
haunts me to this day.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh my gosh, you're a klepto.
I am, he would have known.
Oh, I know I need to.
I need to ask some type ofquestion.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
I know I need to.
I need some type of supportprogram.
I go back to the store and paythem for the earrings?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, no never.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I can't tell them I did it now Delirious me.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
They don't know who the culprit was.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I know they don't know who the culprit was.
I know, I know, I know, I know,I know.
I know you owe me an anonymouson the spot tab.
All right, thank you, Iappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Don't report me,
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Oh, my gosh Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
What is a skeleton in your closet or a secret that
you have?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
The skeleton can be literal or figurative.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And it might get weird if it's literal, but go on
.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Oh my gosh.
So, growing up, you know mybrother and I, my sister and
then my mom, so single parentrules.
Well, you know, every once in awhile mom would go on little
trips and my brother and I wouldthrow parties, and so I think
(24:37):
we threw a couple parties.
I think we did get caught onetime, but that's because we
didn't do our.
You know, take a picture of thehouse before and then make sure
it looks exactly the same.
So I think it was one of ourparties that.
So, even though my mom onlycaught us with one party, I
think we had like three or four.
But the reason why we gotcaught it wasn't because
(24:59):
everything was in the same place, it was because the house was
too clean.
She came home and she was, likethe house is way too clean,
like, did you guys throw a party?
So yes, mom, we did throw aparty.
(25:19):
But what she didn't know isthat we threw four others before
this one.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Mom jokes on you.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mom, if you're listening, we're sorry.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
I love you mom.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I'm doing the episode about skeletons in your closet.
Do you have any skeletons orsecrets in your closet?
Yes, Are you wanting me toshare them with you?
Probably my worst one is when Iwas on military orders and
(26:00):
working on an installation.
I had to stay there for aboutthree months and I was staying
in base lodging.
So, on the installation andbeing a single young female, I
packed every girl's necessity.
I packed my vibrator becausewho doesn't need that when you
travel and left for work notthinking anything of it, but
(26:24):
obviously got a little fun withmyself the night before and got
back from work that day to avery neatly made bed with my
vibrator laying on top of thatbed and a note on top of the
vibrator that said from now on,if anything is sound or less
than your bed, we will no longerbe making it signed
(26:46):
housekeeping.
And I had to stay there and seethose same, because it's the
same people that come clean yourroom.
I had to see them for anothertwo months every day, feeling
shameful.
There was that moment that I had.
I learned that lesson quicklyand was able to say it is yet to
(27:07):
happen again in my life.
They were just jealous.
Listen, the vibrator still goeson trips with me.
We just now do a double checkto make sure it's not in the bed
the next day, so I don't runinto any more uncomfortable
situations.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Right, they're just shaming your game girl.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, it could of been something way worse way
worse, girl, way worse.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Thank you to everyone for sharing their skeletons
with us, from real bodies tosecrets.
This idiom takes an interestingturn, and one that I never
expected.
The expression skeleton in thecloset morphed in America
sometime in the 1900s.
We still use the phraseskeletons in the closet in its
original context, but the idiommorphed into a new phrase
(27:53):
referring to those who decidedto come out of the closet,
meaning it was shameful andcriminal, secret to be had to be
gay in America.
There are actually two theoriesas to how this phrase came to
be in society, so I will prefacethis with.
This is just a theory about theorigin of this phrase.
The theory goes in 1930s, 40sand 50s.
(28:14):
There was a growing backlashagainst this visible gay world.
In response, gay life becamemore secretive.
In response, the communityrelied on code phrases in mixed
company.
In this context, coming outmeant acknowledging one's sexual
orientation to oneself andother gay people.
Coming out took on a morepolitical meeting after the 1969
(28:34):
Stonewall Rebellion, in whichpatrons of the Stonewall Inn in
New York City fought againstpolice in a raid.
The rebellion included riotsand a resistance that lasted for
days.
It was subsequentlycommemorated in an annual march
known as today, the Gay PrideParade.
At the first gay march in NewYork City in June 1970, one of
(28:57):
the organizers stated that we'llnever have freedom and civil
rights we deserve as humanbeings unless we stop hiding in
closets and in the shelter ofanonymity.
By this time, coming out wasjun, s with just being in the
closet, conveying shameassociated with hiding.
By the end of the 1960s, queerpeople who pretended to be
heterosexual were said to be inthe closet.
(29:19):
Or quote unquote a closet case.
Or in the case of gay men,quote closeted queens.
By the 1970s, mainstreamjournalists were already using
this term beyond sexualorientation to speak up for
instant.
Quote closeted conservatives.
That's just an example.
By presenting coming out as away to end internalized
(29:40):
self-hatred and achieve a betterlife, the LGBTQ movement helped
to encourage people to come outdespite the associated risk.
This is where the phrase isshortened to quote coming out or
come out.
For instance, in 1978, openlygay elected government official,
Harvey Milk, urged people toquote come out, come out
wherever you are.
(30:00):
This phrase is now used tobuild solidarity and support for
the LGBTQ AI plus community.
Super interesting and a crazyleap from the 1800s.
We have gone all over the placetoday.
We have gone from dead peoplein the closet to literary works
of Edgar Allen Poe, to theethics of bodies on display, and
(30:20):
now this jump to the sexualrevolution and its implications
on our society today.
That was an incredible amountof information and things to
ponder.
I will leave you here withthese intellectual snacks to
think about and you can tell mewhat you think by leaving us a
comment on the podcast orsending us an email to my and
original thought podcast atgmailcom.
(30:44):
What did you like?
What do you want to see in thefuture?
What didn't you like?
Which idiom do you want us toexplore next time?
If you have any insight ontoday's topic, something I
missed or I didn't get right, orif you just want to be featured
in a future of what the idiom,go ahead and let me know.
Well, podcast family.
That's a wrap for today.
Thank you so much for beingwith us to learn and laugh our
(31:05):
way through another unoriginalthought.
I'm your host, Afton Jae, and Ithank you for hanging out with
me today and, as always, keepbeing inquisitive.
Hey, I just wanted to let youknow that if you couldn't get
(31:36):
enough of this episode, we willalways have bloopers and other
interesting conversationsincluded afterwards.
Some of the material we justdidn't have time to get to or it
didn't have a place in thefinal edit, but it's always
thought provoking or funny orpossibly both.
If you're interested, juststick around.
Bloopers oh yeah, it has been achallenge trying to figure out
(32:03):
how to record and set up thispodcast.
Setting and setting up calls isa lot harder than it seems, but
it's always hilarious to seewhere the conversation goes.
It's been super fun to callpeople and interrupt their day
to ask them questions aboutrandom phrases and useless
knowledge.
Thankfully, the people that Italked to are open and willing
(32:24):
to chat with me for theentertainment and education of
the audience.
Here are some of the clips ofsetting up the calls, which
don't go as smoothly as I wouldlike.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Hold on one second.
I'm getting the mail.
Your mail is being recorded.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Hello world.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hello world, it was so funny, so I've like done this
a couple times and there's likethe first minute and a half is
just me giggling and they'relike are you going to like say
anything?
I'm like I can't.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You ready.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
Yeah, I'm so ready.
I've never been more ready.
I've been waiting for thisforever.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Okay, you ready.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
They're easy.
Okay, it doesn't take muchbrain power.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Okay, well, I don't have much.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Okay so.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Are you going to ever ask me a question?
No, I'm going to ask you thequestion.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
So if it's actually like doing its thing, Are you
just trying to see if it'llrecord the call for your podcast
, or is this for like work?
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I wanted to see if itwould record for the podcast, or
I wanted to see like you withthe face hey, no, we're not
(33:54):
playing in the cemetery, let'sgo back to playground.
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
We're not playing in the cemetery.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yeah yeah, there is a church right across from our
house that has a church cemeteryand playground, so we're going
to playground, but obviously no,come on bud.
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
He's messing with the flowers.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I looked down for two secondsand they're just like I'm going
to play with the headstones.
No, yes, I know it's pretty andsparkly, no come on Come on
Come on.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Come on.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Not messing with those.
Okay, okay Come on Okay.
All right, we're not going overhere in the cemetery.
We're going to the playground.
Come on, come on, hey boys,don't live your best life,
whether that's in the cemeteryor not.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Love o T.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Some of the best content for this episode comes
from the personal skeletons inyour closet stories.
Well, we didn't have time forall of them in the episode.
I would still love to sharethem with you.
My friends definitely kept melaughing, and I hope you'll get
a laugh out of them as well.
Ooh, I'm gonna tell you, though, I just did Skeletons in the
(35:07):
Closet and I was like no fuckingway.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
Are you serious?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So it was here.
I'll just here.
I'll ask you do you have anyfunny stories about Skeletons in
the Closet, or do you have?
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Skeletons in the Closet.
Um no, I don't have any likefun stories like that or really
any big, exciting, dark, deepdark secret.
I probably work on that becauseI'm trying to get more witchy
in my life.
I've decided that, like witchenergy.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You were already real witchy.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
No, I was just kidding.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Like I just I've been like really digging like the
cat eye eyeliner and I'm like Idon't know this is the Halloween
time or if, like I just am atthat age where I identify more
with the Disney villains in thestories than the actual like
heroines.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I very much identify with all Disney villains and
feel bad for them.
I feel like they'remisunderstood.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Right, like you're, like you know, I do kind of get
where some of them come from.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You know, like, yeah, like yeah, think about it Like
the little, the little mermaidwas given everything she could
ever want by her father and shewas still like but I want more.
And then Ursula has to likecome up in this fucking D cave
and like work her whole life andlike be scrounging potions for
(36:31):
like money.
And she's just misunderstood.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
I'd be mad too.
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally getit.
Like you know, she was beingdiscriminated against.
I'm very excited to hear theactual origination.
Yeah, I'm, I'm.
Can we do your podcast and giveyou so much fun stories?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Oh shit, you want both.
No way yeah.
I can't, I can't be the girl onyour podcast that only has
stories about vibrators.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Okay, first of all, no one's gonna know who you are
Second of all, I'm going to putone in the regular episode and
one in the blooper.
There's a blooper section forextra shit that I couldn't fit
in the podcast, but there's somelike funnier stories in the
bloopers that that aren't in the, the regular one.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
So okay, okay.
So do you want my other storyas well?
I do, okay.
Well, we'll just stick to thetheme of vibrators, because
apparently I like vibrators andthe world can know it, and it's
a totally healthy thing that Iwill not feel ashamed about.
However, around.
Christmas time, around Christmastime, while I'm on Amazon
(37:46):
ordering everybody's Christmasgifts I don't know like, does
the vibrator shut up?
It's like recommended for you,if that says anything about
what's in my search history.
And I was like, oh yeah, Idon't have that one.
We should buy that, notthinking.
I also bought my mom's brandnew boyfriend, like first year
I'll be spending Christmas withthis man, maybe the second I
(38:10):
might hmm, hard to say.
I decided that I would purchasehis.
She wanted a flashlight.
It was like a fancy flashlight.
So I bought his flashlight.
Totally forgot that I bought avibrator at the same time.
So I'm waiting on theflashlight to show up.
I like I now have to space outthe fact that I bought the
vibrator at the same time.
(38:30):
So finally a box shows up aboutthe size of what I guess his
flashlight must have been.
I just wrap it.
I don't even read what it is.
I wrap it because I'm runninglate.
It came the day it was supposedto be a family Christmas, so I
wrap it, put a freaking bow onit, jump in the car, go to leave
but realize there's another boxat my front door too, and I was
(38:50):
like, well, what that one hasbeen.
It looked like it was the samesize.
It was like, surely I didn'torder two flashlights.
So I go to my Amazon orders tosee what else has been delivered
and was like, oh my gosh, boththe vibrator and the flashlight
were delivered today and I waslike I cannot drive home and
risk this potentially being avibrator that I'm about to get
to my mom's new boyfriend.
(39:11):
So I quickly unwrap the box.
I picked t L because it was avibrator and the flashlight is
the box that was still on myfront porch.
So yeah, I was actually savedby that moment of trying to
figure out why the boxes lookedthe same.
But I ended up telling my momabout it and she actually died
(39:31):
laughing and wished that I hadgiven him the vibrator and that
it had just like naturallyplayed out in that way Mostly
because she wanted to see if Iwould be more embarrassed or if
he would have been moreembarrassed.
So he now knows the story tooand he actually thinks he would
(39:51):
have been a really good sportand I would have been the one.
That was super uncomfortable.
So they're probably right.
And then having to try andfigure out like, do I take it
back?
They'd be like oh no, not foryou.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Oops, they must have sent the wrong thing and Amazon.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
I'll just take that back yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I'll return it, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
For the context of this next clip.
We're talking aboutembarrassing things that could
happen when I happen to tell myfriend that the stories I'm
getting from my male friendswere all very similar.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I mean from the other sounds like I could have
shipped my pants when left thoseand that kind of stuff.
I'm saying I think that's worse, you should get yourself in
public.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I can't put another story on this podcast Every dude
has shit a a .
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Why is that?
The only thing they want totalk about.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
It was like I interviewed five dudes and a
couple ladies and it's like shitstory, shit story, shit story,
shit story.
I was like I gotta interview awoman.
I'm just making the samemistake over and over again?
Do you have a skeleton in yourcloset or a most embarrassing
story or something that isshameful?
Speaker 8 (41:10):
Yeah, of course Everybody does.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
Do you want to share?
Speaker 8 (41:14):
There was a time period when I was shooting
X-rays for a portable X-raycompany.
I was shooting them all overTexas and I had I was driving, I
hadn't eaten dinner and I droveto my appointment and I hadn't
eaten.
So I grabbed a soda and aburrito right before I went
(41:35):
there and so I did the X-ray onthe lady.
I had my machine walked by thenurses station.
They weren't there and so I wasjust left, you know, to go to
process the X-ray.
And I walked out the door,going to go to the parking lot,
(41:56):
and I just ripped the loudestbeefer in the history of the
world and I heard half a dozengirls laughing and cracking up.
They were all outside smokingand I didn't see them when I
walked out the door.
I never turned around and Inever went back ever again.
You never told me that story.
(42:16):
Well, most of my stories arevery similar to that.
I'm not the hero in most of mytales.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
My brother had like my brother wanted to share like
almost a very similar situation.
Never in my life has that everbeen an issue.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
Well, you don't eat gas station burritos, then
that's it.
That's all I got.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's all the extra content we have for you today.
I hope you enjoyed the littlebit of extra.
Remember to like and subscribeto the podcast to catch every
episode and the bloopers.
We'll catch you next time.
Hey, podcast fans, I'm your unoriginal podcaster
and host, Afton Jay.
I started this podcast becauseI've always loved fun facts,
history and culture.
I consume so many books andpodcasts that it just made sense
I would find friends out therethat loved some of the same
things that I do and boom, myunoriginal thought podcast was
(00:59):
born.
I don't know how many othernerds out there will want to
hear about the fascinating worldof idioms, but we're going to
go on this adventure together.
None of what I will talk abouttoday is my original thoughts,
but I will attempt to repackageother people's ideas and talk
through them so we can learn andlaugh together.
I'm going to try to bring youthe most interesting useless
(01:21):
knowledge in the mostthought-provoking and
entertaining way.
I know how Every episode willfeature a new idiom, phrase,
proverb or saying that we canexplore.
I will bring in backstory,history, current books, articles
and experts to help us unpackall that these culturally
relevant sayings have to offer.
Okay, let's get into it.
(01:42):
Whether you're listening inyour car, on the way to work,
cleaning the house at theairport or wherever you are, I
hope you enjoy our episode.
Today's episode is the Skeletonsin the Closet.
I'm really excited about thisone.
It has been one of my favoriteidioms for a while, and when I
got into the research I wasblown away at the history behind
(02:04):
this popular phrase.
Not only does this saying havea long history with many
possible origins, but it alsochanged over time to be one of
the most powerful, culturallyrelevant sayings of today.
Get ready for a wild ride as Itake you through this episode's
idiom.
First of all, the saying "ASkeleton in your Closet is an
(02:24):
idiom.
There are several differenttypes of idioms phrases, prose
proverbs and sayings that we'lltalk about on this show, and I
will always try to be correct inmy terminology, but for all of
you English and language mastersout there, feel free to correct
me or pardon me if I'm not 100%right all of the time.
An idiom is a group of wordsestablished by usage as having a
(02:46):
meaning not deductible fromthose of the individual words.
An example of this is "barkingup the wrong tree Once in a blue
moon.
Skeletons in your closetShameless plug.
We'll be talking about some ofthese other idioms in the future
, so tune in Anyway.
So where did this idiom comefrom and why the heck would you
have skeletons in your closet?
(03:08):
Here's the part of the showwhere we play the super fun game
What The idiom?
where we have unsuspectingfriends.
uess where they think theorigin of this week's phrase
comes from?
So let's jump into it with ourfirst unsuspecting friend.
(03:29):
But I mean, they're super,super interesting.
Like so, the one that I'mworking on right now, the one
that I thought was going to be,like I didn't realize it was
going to be this interesting,but is skeletons in the closet?
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yes, so.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I thought I knew the origin and then, when I
researched it, I realized thatthere's actually multiple
different possibilities for theorigin and like I don't know if
you've ever thought about it,but if you had a thought, where
do you think?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
it comes from.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Where would it come from?
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Skeletons in the closet.
Speaker 5 (04:10):
The only thing I can think of is like the Catholic
church.
Did it come from them?
Like Europe, somewhere fromEurope, ia where it started?
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, like you mean the Catholic church, like having
bodies or having secrets.
Speaker 5 (04:26):
No secrets, like secrets.
Not the physical body, I'mthinking it's more religious.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
That is super interesting and I can see where
you would think that it doescome from the English time
period, 1800s.
Speaker 5 (04:44):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Yep, that's a really good guess.
That is actually not one of thetheories is coming from the
religious church, but definitelyan interesting guess that I
would have never thought about.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
Okay, I love this !yes, so I will keep you on the
hook that way you have to listento the podcast.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yes, okay, that was definitely a good theory.
We're on the right lines, butwe're not just there.
Yet let's hear from our secondguesser.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
Yeah, I was hoping it was going to be like something
profound, like there was aspecific dude in England 400
years ago who everyone thoughtwas super cool.
He was the town dentist.
Everyone loved him.
And fight t h This Thismotherfucker was killing people
and soaking them in acid,keeping their skull, their
(05:48):
skeletons in like perfectanatomical position and like
hanging them in a y so that youcould like sleep with them at
night .
And then from that point onthat was w th one we had
skeletons in his closet and thenit's like more from there.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
we're getting closer.
That was a great story that weWe're made up to go along with
our idiom.
But our third guesser might beon the right track.
I'll just I'll ask you do you,do where the origin is, where
the origin of skeleton in thecloset comes from?
Speaker 5 (06:31):
I would assume it's because of like.
If I had to guess, I'd say it'slike an Edgar Allen Poe
reference or something from likesome poem in the Victorian, you
know, medieval, edwardian times, when there were lots of like
the origin of horror, and therewas like some poem that there
was a skeleton in the closet andthat it's some sort of
(06:54):
entomology from there.
That's what I would guess.
Is that right, or is it even no?
Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's actually there's multiple theories and that is
one of them, so that's a reallygood guess.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Yes, yes, yes yes.
Speaker 5 (07:14):
I'm very excited to hear the actual origination
etymology.
Speaker 6 (07:18):
Yes!! we do?
Speaker 5 (07:19):
podcast.
It's gonna be so much fun.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I'm like trying to decide if I make you listen.
I'm just gonna make you listento the podcast.
I'm not even gonna tell youwhat I found, because I was like
no way, yes, yes, I can't wait.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
I cannot wait.
This is gonna be awesome, yeah,okay.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All of these guesses are so funny.
Thank you to all of ourcontestants on what the Idiom.
Now let's go back to the actualorigin story.
As we know today, this phrasemeans a hidden source of
something scandalous or shameful.
It is most commonly used whenreferring to something in the
(07:57):
past that will cause potentialruin to a person or a group of
people when exposed.
It also signifies anundisclosed fact about a person
that would damage their socialstanding among the community if
it were revealed.
A skeleton can vary from thingsyou've done, such as a lie, a
betrayal or even somethingextreme like murder, but it
(08:18):
doesn't always have to be dark.
Some skeletons may be of theembarrassing nature, such as an
awkward moment that we don'twant to share.
I think we all have someskeletons in the closet and we
can all use this idiom everyonce in a while.
But where does it come from?
The most interesting thing isthat there are several different
(08:38):
theories about the origin ofthis phrase.
I had only ever heard of one ofthese theories before I started
researching, but I can see anyof them being the real origin.
So since most of these theoriescome from around the same time
frame, I can see how they getall be part of the reason why
the phrase is so prevalent, andthey all started around the
1800s.
(08:59):
First of all, the phrase hasbeen stated two ways.
You can say a skeleton in thecloset or, in some cases, a
skeleton in the cupboard.
I've personally never heard ofa skeleton in the cupboard, but
in the 18th century English,where this phrase originates
from, a cupboard could mean ahiding place.
There's a closet could mean awater closet, bathroom or
(09:20):
wardrobe and as the sayingtraveled to the United States,
we generally tended to use theword closet instead of cupboard,
although I might try saying itin the old English style from
now on.
Like I have a skeleton in thecupboard, I'll let you know how
that goes the next time I use it.
But anyway, no matter if youuse closets or cupboards, the
(09:43):
meaning is always the same itmeans that you are hiding
something embarrassing orscandalous.
So how did we get the skeletonsin the closet?
Do they mean real skeletons ormetaphoric skeletons?
And the answer is yes.
One of the first instances ofthis phrase being printed was an
article by William HenryStowell published in 1816,
(10:06):
united Kingdom's MonthlyPeriodical, the Electric Review.
I'm sure everyone out theresubscribes to this important
periodical, but for those thathave skipped that month's
edition, let me review it foryou.
It was used to discuss theshame of a disease that is
infectious or hereditary.
Because whatever horribledisease Mr.
Stowell was discussing, he wassaying that it might leave a
(10:28):
legacy of shame or dread on thefamily.
And then you had the potentialof passing it along and fear of
making the families concealthose skeletons in their closets
.
Can you imagine hiding dad inyour closet so no one finds him
out of shame, y you and ick.
Another theory and the theory inwhich I thought this phrase was
(10:51):
based off, was the expressioncame from the infamous era of
body snatchers.
Both of these ideas come fromaround the same time frame, so
maybe both are a little bit true.
Anyways, before 1832, when thelaw was changed in parliament,
the use of corpses for medicalresearch was frowned upon by
British royalty and parliament.
(11:11):
R t this date, only the bodiesthey could dissect for medical
purposes were those that camefrom executed criminals.
Although the execution ofcriminals was far from rare in
18th century Britain, it wasvery unlikely that a doctor
would be lucky enough to stumbleacross many corpses during his
professional working life.
It was therefore commonpractice for a doctor that had
(11:33):
the good fortune to dissect oneof the corpses of an executed
criminal to keep that skeletonfor research purposes for as
long as possible.
Again, y and ick.
Public opinion would not permitdoctors to keep skeletons on
open view in their surgeries, sothey had to hide them, even if
they couldn't actually see them.
Most people suspected thatdoctors kept skeletons somewhere
(11:55):
and the most logical placewould have been the cupboard or
closet.
The Anatomy Act was an act of1832 in parliament that
legislated to increase legalaccess to human cadavers for
medical schools.
The reason for the change inthe law was due to the increase
in enrollment of medicalstudents in British anatomy
schools at the time and therewas a bunch of widely publicized
(12:18):
cases of bodies snatching forprofit.
The act, which was first posedunsuccessfully in 1828, before
its successful 1832 revision,established two major changes to
the existing.
legislation.
.
Firstly, that a newlyestablished inspector's office
would issue and manage anatomylicenses for which all
(12:39):
physicians and medical studentsassociated with the anatomy
schools were now eligible, andsecondly, that any person who
died without a personal writtenobjection or without the
presence of family members toobject on that person's behalf,
could be conveyed for dissectionfor anatomy schools.
So we have gone from it's weirdand illegal to have a body to
(12:59):
anyone can get a body if nobodyobjects.
Weird, flex, but it's all forthe advancements of science,
right?
You also have the theory thatit came from gothic novels of
the Victorian era.
Edgar Allan Poe used the imageryof skeletons and secrets quite
effectively in his literaryworks.
There are two instances whereEdgar Allan Poe used the imagery
(13:21):
of skeletons in the closet todrive a point home in his
writing.
In his piece called the BlackCat from 1845, he recounts the
way a character dispelled thesuspicions of others regarding
his wife's mysterious death when, seemingly afraid of any
further consequences, he smackedthe wall that hid his wife's
corpse while the inspectors werein the home.
(13:43):
In a turn of the story, thewall fell in and his accusers
saw the literal skeleton in hiscloset, or in this case, the
wall.
Edgar Allan Poe also used theconcept behind this phrase in
his poetic masterpieces,including the Raven and
Annabelle, which are classicpoems about regret.
A skeleton in the closet laterdeveloped into the idea of
(14:05):
referring to grim evidence of acrime or murder.
Famous Victorian author WilliamMakepeace t K adopted the
phrase and used it in hisliterary pieces in novels.
In an 1845 piece, he referredto a skeleton in every house,
and in another piece from 1854to 1555, he explicitly mentioned
the exact phrase skeletons inclosets.
(14:27):
It was never known whether hewas suggesting actual skeletons
that were inside people's homesor whether he was merely using a
phrase to aid his reader'simagination, like Edgar Allen
Poe did years earlier.
As much of this idiom isgenerally seen as figurative,
one English philosopher decidedto give it a literal turn.
Jeremy Bentham, an 18th centuryto 19th century philosopher,
(14:50):
was the only real skeleton inthe closet in his time.
In his will, Bentham decided topreserve his skeleton in a
wooden closet with a glass front, which would then be publicly
displayed in the University ofCollege in London.
Humans have always had aninteresting and odd fascination
with death and human remains.
Some would see the displayingof human remains or keeping of
(15:13):
remains as disrespectful.
Obviously this happened in 18thcentury England and they've
proven that, but other culturesused remains for scientific
research and proudly displayedthem, such as the Egyptian
culture.
Mr.
Bentham was not the firstperson to want to display his
body although it is aninteresting way to use your body
(15:33):
when you're gone but he was notthe first person to let people
ogle him, and neither was he thelast.
Today, this topic still sparksa great debate over the ethics
of using bodies for research anddisplay purposes.
In an amazingly interesting book, stiff, the Curious Lives of
Human Cadavers is a 2003nonfiction book by Mary Roach.
(15:56):
Stiff was a bestseller, a 2003Barnes Noble Discover Great New
Writers pick and one ofEntertainment Weekly's best
books of 2003.
It also won the Amazon.
com.
c Editor's Choice Award in 2003.
She has many different booksthat are very well researched
and written and I highlyrecommend her as a writer.
Stiff details the uniquescientific contributions of the
(16:20):
deceased.
In the book, roach gives afirst-hand account of cadavers,
a history of the use of cadaversand an exploration of the
surrounding ethical and moralissues of cadavers.
She places each chapter'scontent into historical context
and uses humor to make thesubject educational.
The chapters range s bodysnatching test dummies being
(16:41):
buried alive and so much more.
A book that sounds morbid andmacabre is actually very
informative and funny.
I definitely recommend thisbook to anyone.
The audio version was evenfunnier than the paper book
because the orator is reallygreat to listen to.
The link to the book is in theshow notes if you're interested.
Also another interesting topicto look into the history behind
(17:04):
the use of cadavers is thecontroversial exhibition Body
Worlds that started in 1995, orBodies, the Exhibit that started
in 2005.
They are two differentexhibitions that showcase human
bodies and they've beenpreserved through a process
called plastination.
I is used to easily display thebody and the body's systems.
(17:25):
If you've never heard of it.
The exhibit displays internalorgans and organic systems.
Displays are staged in activeposes and fetuses are used to
display various stages ofdevelopment.
I've seen it in Vegas and Iabsolutely loved it.
Every inch of the exhibit iscovered in fascinating facts and
I thought the displays werereally respectful and intriguing
(17:48):
.
I love learning about the humanbody and this is one of the
best exhibitions I've ever seen.
However, bodies has a dark past.
Concerns have been raised byhuman rights advocates that the
bodies on display are actuallythose of executed Chinese
prisoners and that the familiesof the victims have not
consented to the use.
The exhibitionists claim thatthe presumed origin of the
(18:10):
bodies and fetuses relies solelyon the representations of its
Chinese partners and that theycannot independently verify that
the bodies do not belong toexecuted prisoners.
During the exhibition'slifetime, there has been issues
that have come up.
A science education coordinatorfor the Carnegie Museum of
Science resigned her positionover the exhibit, citing her
(18:32):
religious beliefs, questionsabout the source of the bodies
and a general p for puttinghuman remains on exhibit.
Professor Anita Allen, aUniversity of Pennsylvania
bioethicist, argued spendingmoney to quote gawk at human
remains should raise seriousconcerns.
Thomas Hibbs, a BaylorUniversity professor, compares
cadaver displays to pornographyin that they reduce the subject
(18:55):
to the manipulation of bodyparts stripped of any larger
human significance.
Even if the consent wereobtained for the bodies, Rabbi
Danny Schiff maintains that weshould still question what
providing quote bodies arrangedin showcases for the hungry
public says about our society.
In 2017, in the Czech Republic,body of the exhibition was
(19:18):
taking place in Prague.
Four doctors and four nonprofitorganizations issued a
statement about the ethical andhuman rights concerns.
The statement called upon theorganizers to present consent of
the donors of the displayedbodies, if such documentation
even existed.
Today, the bodies' exhibits aremore strict with their donation
processes.
According to the Body Worldwebsite, the bodies belong to
(19:41):
people who declared during theirlifetime that their bodies
should be made available aftertheir death for the training of
physicians and the instructionof the layperson.
Many donors underscore that bydonating their body, they want
to be useful to others evenafter their death.
They state that they have over55,000 body donations, most of
(20:01):
which actually come from Germany.
You can also volunteer to be abody if you head over to their
website and sign up.
I do think it's interesting that, even after all of these years,
seeing, studying or looking athuman remains is such a divisive
topic.
It is still conjuring upfeelings of shame, disgust,
(20:21):
horror and embarrassment, whichis why I think this idiom, both
figuratively and literally, isso powerful.
Okay, we've taken a few turns,so let's get back to the
original origin story In theexpression skeleton in the
closet started to become morewidely used in America.
It morphed from actual deadpeople in your closet to mostly
(20:44):
referring to hiding somethingcriminal or shameful or
embarrassing.
So what kind of skeletons inyour closet are you keeping?
Would you be willing to share?
I found some friends that are,so let's find out what kind of
skeletons they are keepinghidden, just so you know this is
a recorded, or theoreticallyit's a recorded conversation.
(21:10):
I'm like trying out a new appwhere you can record phone calls
.
I'm like playing with differentlittle things that I could do
with the podcast, and one ofthem being like I could call
people and ask them where theythink the origins of these
things came from or if they havea funny story about them, which
I think would be hilarious.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
Remember that time you shit your pants in the Kmart
.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Okay, first of all, that was you, that shit yourself
, and it was a library, so don'tget it.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
I shit my pants on a higher than average basis.
I'll be the first to admit that, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
See, and I'll never understand that theory, not once
have I ever been like I thinkI'm about to or like there's a
possibility of me shitting mypants.
Speaker 4 (21:50):
No, I'm good for two a year Minimum.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
I recorded.
I would like to remind theaudience that everybody that
comes on this show knows theyare being recorded and they are
giving this information freely.
Okay, let's get back into somemore secrets.
So we're talking aboutskeletons in the closet.
Nobody knows who you are.
This is totally anonymous.
What skeleton in the closet doyou hide away?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
Either shameful embarrassing, or do you
literally have dead bodies atyour house?
I don't think you do becauseI'm there, but maybe you do.
Speaker 6 (22:28):
Oh my gosh.
You know there's always deadbodies in the closet.
I'm not coming for Thanksgiving, Skeletons in the closet.
I mean I feel like everyone didthis, but I feel like okay, so
I stole a pair of earrings as akid and like it's something I
(22:50):
think about very often becauseit is just not who I am today.
It's like something that I feelguilty about.
I was working a retail job, too, and I stole this pair of
earrings from the store that Iwas working at, and it like just
haunts me to this day.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Oh my gosh, you're a klepto.
I am, he would have known.
Oh, I know I need to.
I need to ask some type ofquestion.
Speaker 6 (23:21):
I know I need to.
I need some type of supportprogram.
I go back to the store and paythem for the earrings?
Speaker 1 (23:32):
Yeah, no never.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
I can't tell them I did it now Delirious me.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
They don't know who the culprit was.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
I know they don't know who the culprit was.
I know, I know, I know, I know,I know.
I know you owe me an anonymouson the spot tab.
All right, thank you, Iappreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Don't report me,
Speaker 7 (24:02):
Oh, my gosh Okay.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
What is a skeleton in your closet or a secret that
you have?
Speaker 2 (24:10):
The skeleton can be literal or figurative.
Speaker 1 (24:13):
And it might get weird if it's literal, but go on
.
Speaker 7 (24:16):
Oh my gosh.
So, growing up, you know mybrother and I, my sister and
then my mom, so single parentrules.
Well, you know, every once in awhile mom would go on little
trips and my brother and I wouldthrow parties, and so I think
(24:37):
we threw a couple parties.
I think we did get caught onetime, but that's because we
didn't do our.
You know, take a picture of thehouse before and then make sure
it looks exactly the same.
So I think it was one of ourparties that.
So, even though my mom onlycaught us with one party, I
think we had like three or four.
But the reason why we gotcaught it wasn't because
(24:59):
everything was in the same place, it was because the house was
too clean.
She came home and she was, likethe house is way too clean,
like, did you guys throw a party?
So yes, mom, we did throw aparty.
(25:19):
But what she didn't know isthat we threw four others before
this one.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Mom jokes on you.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Mom, if you're listening, we're sorry.
Speaker 7 (25:32):
I love you mom.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
I'm doing the episode about skeletons in your closet.
Do you have any skeletons orsecrets in your closet?
Yes, Are you wanting me toshare them with you?
Probably my worst one is when Iwas on military orders and
(26:00):
working on an installation.
I had to stay there for aboutthree months and I was staying
in base lodging.
So, on the installation andbeing a single young female, I
packed every girl's necessity.
I packed my vibrator becausewho doesn't need that when you
travel and left for work notthinking anything of it, but
(26:24):
obviously got a little fun withmyself the night before and got
back from work that day to avery neatly made bed with my
vibrator laying on top of thatbed and a note on top of the
vibrator that said from now on,if anything is sound or less
than your bed, we will no longerbe making it signed
(26:46):
housekeeping.
And I had to stay there and seethose same, because it's the
same people that come clean yourroom.
I had to see them for anothertwo months every day, feeling
shameful.
There was that moment that I had.
I learned that lesson quicklyand was able to say it is yet to
(27:07):
happen again in my life.
They were just jealous.
Listen, the vibrator still goeson trips with me.
We just now do a double checkto make sure it's not in the bed
the next day, so I don't runinto any more uncomfortable
situations.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
Right, they're just shaming your game girl.
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah, it could of been something way worse way
worse, girl, way worse.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Thank you to everyone for sharing their skeletons
with us, from real bodies tosecrets.
This idiom takes an interestingturn, and one that I never
expected.
The expression skeleton in thecloset morphed in America
sometime in the 1900s.
We still use the phraseskeletons in the closet in its
original context, but the idiommorphed into a new phrase
(27:53):
referring to those who decidedto come out of the closet,
meaning it was shameful andcriminal, secret to be had to be
gay in America.
There are actually two theoriesas to how this phrase came to
be in society, so I will prefacethis with.
This is just a theory about theorigin of this phrase.
The theory goes in 1930s, 40sand 50s.
(28:14):
There was a growing backlashagainst this visible gay world.
In response, gay life becamemore secretive.
In response, the communityrelied on code phrases in mixed
company.
In this context, coming outmeant acknowledging one's sexual
orientation to oneself andother gay people.
Coming out took on a morepolitical meeting after the 1969
(28:34):
Stonewall Rebellion, in whichpatrons of the Stonewall Inn in
New York City fought againstpolice in a raid.
The rebellion included riotsand a resistance that lasted for
days.
It was subsequentlycommemorated in an annual march
known as today, the Gay PrideParade.
At the first gay march in NewYork City in June 1970, one of
(28:57):
the organizers stated that we'llnever have freedom and civil
rights we deserve as humanbeings unless we stop hiding in
closets and in the shelter ofanonymity.
By this time, coming out wasjun, s with just being in the
closet, conveying shameassociated with hiding.
By the end of the 1960s, queerpeople who pretended to be
heterosexual were said to be inthe closet.
(29:19):
Or quote unquote a closet case.
Or in the case of gay men,quote closeted queens.
By the 1970s, mainstreamjournalists were already using
this term beyond sexualorientation to speak up for
instant.
Quote closeted conservatives.
That's just an example.
By presenting coming out as away to end internalized
(29:40):
self-hatred and achieve a betterlife, the LGBTQ movement helped
to encourage people to come outdespite the associated risk.
This is where the phrase isshortened to quote coming out or
come out.
For instance, in 1978, openlygay elected government official,
Harvey Milk, urged people toquote come out, come out
wherever you are.
(30:00):
This phrase is now used tobuild solidarity and support for
the LGBTQ AI plus community.
Super interesting and a crazyleap from the 1800s.
We have gone all over the placetoday.
We have gone from dead peoplein the closet to literary works
of Edgar Allen Poe, to theethics of bodies on display, and
(30:20):
now this jump to the sexualrevolution and its implications
on our society today.
That was an incredible amountof information and things to
ponder.
I will leave you here withthese intellectual snacks to
think about and you can tell mewhat you think by leaving us a
comment on the podcast orsending us an email to my and
original thought podcast atgmailcom.
(30:44):
What did you like?
What do you want to see in thefuture?
What didn't you like?
Which idiom do you want us toexplore next time?
If you have any insight ontoday's topic, something I
missed or I didn't get right, orif you just want to be featured
in a future of what the idiom,go ahead and let me know.
Well, podcast family.
That's a wrap for today.
Thank you so much for beingwith us to learn and laugh our
(31:05):
way through another unoriginalthought.
I'm your host, Afton Jae, and Ithank you for hanging out with
me today and, as always, keepbeing inquisitive.
Hey, I just wanted to let youknow that if you couldn't get
(31:36):
enough of this episode, we willalways have bloopers and other
interesting conversationsincluded afterwards.
Some of the material we justdidn't have time to get to or it
didn't have a place in thefinal edit, but it's always
thought provoking or funny orpossibly both.
If you're interested, juststick around.
Bloopers oh yeah, it has been achallenge trying to figure out
(32:03):
how to record and set up thispodcast.
Setting and setting up calls isa lot harder than it seems, but
it's always hilarious to seewhere the conversation goes.
It's been super fun to callpeople and interrupt their day
to ask them questions aboutrandom phrases and useless
knowledge.
Thankfully, the people that Italked to are open and willing
(32:24):
to chat with me for theentertainment and education of
the audience.
Here are some of the clips ofsetting up the calls, which
don't go as smoothly as I wouldlike.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
Hold on one second.
I'm getting the mail.
Your mail is being recorded.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Hello world.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Hello world, it was so funny, so I've like done this
a couple times and there's likethe first minute and a half is
just me giggling and they'relike are you going to like say
anything?
I'm like I can't.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
You ready.
Speaker 8 (33:07):
Yeah, I'm so ready.
I've never been more ready.
I've been waiting for thisforever.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Okay, you ready.
Speaker 8 (33:18):
Uh huh.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
They're easy.
Okay, it doesn't take muchbrain power.
Speaker 8 (33:21):
Okay, well, I don't have much.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Okay so.
Speaker 8 (33:27):
Are you going to ever ask me a question?
No, I'm going to ask you thequestion.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
So if it's actually like doing its thing, Are you
just trying to see if it'llrecord the call for your podcast
, or is this for like work?
Yeah, okay.
Yeah, I wanted to see if itwould record for the podcast, or
I wanted to see like you withthe face hey, no, we're not
(33:54):
playing in the cemetery, let'sgo back to playground.
Come on, come on.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
We're not playing in the cemetery.
Speaker 5 (34:00):
Yeah yeah, there is a church right across from our
house that has a church cemeteryand playground, so we're going
to playground, but obviously no,come on bud.
Oh my God.
Speaker 3 (34:10):
He's messing with the flowers.
Speaker 5 (34:12):
No, no, no, no, no, no.
I looked down for two secondsand they're just like I'm going
to play with the headstones.
No, yes, I know it's pretty andsparkly, no come on Come on
Come on.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Come on.
Speaker 5 (34:27):
Not messing with those.
Okay, okay Come on Okay.
All right, we're not going overhere in the cemetery.
We're going to the playground.
Come on, come on, hey boys,don't live your best life,
whether that's in the cemeteryor not.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
Love o T.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Some of the best content for this episode comes
from the personal skeletons inyour closet stories.
Well, we didn't have time forall of them in the episode.
I would still love to sharethem with you.
My friends definitely kept melaughing, and I hope you'll get
a laugh out of them as well.
Ooh, I'm gonna tell you, though, I just did Skeletons in the
(35:07):
Closet and I was like no fuckingway.
Speaker 6 (35:11):
Are you serious?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:16):
So it was here.
I'll just here.
I'll ask you do you have anyfunny stories about Skeletons in
the Closet, or do you have?
Speaker 5 (35:22):
Skeletons in the Closet.
Um no, I don't have any likefun stories like that or really
any big, exciting, dark, deepdark secret.
I probably work on that becauseI'm trying to get more witchy
in my life.
I've decided that, like witchenergy.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
You were already real witchy.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
No, I was just kidding.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Like I just I've been like really digging like the
cat eye eyeliner and I'm like Idon't know this is the Halloween
time or if, like I just am atthat age where I identify more
with the Disney villains in thestories than the actual like
heroines.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
I very much identify with all Disney villains and
feel bad for them.
I feel like they'remisunderstood.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Right, like you're, like you know, I do kind of get
where some of them come from.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
You know, like, yeah, like yeah, think about it Like
the little, the little mermaidwas given everything she could
ever want by her father and shewas still like but I want more.
And then Ursula has to likecome up in this fucking D cave
and like work her whole life andlike be scrounging potions for
(36:31):
like money.
And she's just misunderstood.
Speaker 5 (36:34):
I'd be mad too.
Yeah, yeah, no, I totally getit.
Like you know, she was beingdiscriminated against.
I'm very excited to hear theactual origination.
Yeah, I'm, I'm.
Can we do your podcast and giveyou so much fun stories?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Oh shit, you want both.
No way yeah.
I can't, I can't be the girl onyour podcast that only has
stories about vibrators.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
Okay, first of all, no one's gonna know who you are
Second of all, I'm going to putone in the regular episode and
one in the blooper.
There's a blooper section forextra shit that I couldn't fit
in the podcast, but there's somelike funnier stories in the
bloopers that that aren't in the, the regular one.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
So okay, okay.
So do you want my other storyas well?
I do, okay.
Well, we'll just stick to thetheme of vibrators, because
apparently I like vibrators andthe world can know it, and it's
a totally healthy thing that Iwill not feel ashamed about.
However, around.
Christmas time, around Christmastime, while I'm on Amazon
(37:46):
ordering everybody's Christmasgifts I don't know like, does
the vibrator shut up?
It's like recommended for you,if that says anything about
what's in my search history.
And I was like, oh yeah, Idon't have that one.
We should buy that, notthinking.
I also bought my mom's brandnew boyfriend, like first year
I'll be spending Christmas withthis man, maybe the second I
(38:10):
might hmm, hard to say.
I decided that I would purchasehis.
She wanted a flashlight.
It was like a fancy flashlight.
So I bought his flashlight.
Totally forgot that I bought avibrator at the same time.
So I'm waiting on theflashlight to show up.
I like I now have to space outthe fact that I bought the
vibrator at the same time.
(38:30):
So finally a box shows up aboutthe size of what I guess his
flashlight must have been.
I just wrap it.
I don't even read what it is.
I wrap it because I'm runninglate.
It came the day it was supposedto be a family Christmas, so I
wrap it, put a freaking bow onit, jump in the car, go to leave
but realize there's another boxat my front door too, and I was
(38:50):
like, well, what that one hasbeen.
It looked like it was the samesize.
It was like, surely I didn'torder two flashlights.
So I go to my Amazon orders tosee what else has been delivered
and was like, oh my gosh, boththe vibrator and the flashlight
were delivered today and I waslike I cannot drive home and
risk this potentially being avibrator that I'm about to get
to my mom's new boyfriend.
(39:11):
So I quickly unwrap the box.
I picked t L because it was avibrator and the flashlight is
the box that was still on myfront porch.
So yeah, I was actually savedby that moment of trying to
figure out why the boxes lookedthe same.
But I ended up telling my momabout it and she actually died
(39:31):
laughing and wished that I hadgiven him the vibrator and that
it had just like naturallyplayed out in that way Mostly
because she wanted to see if Iwould be more embarrassed or if
he would have been moreembarrassed.
So he now knows the story tooand he actually thinks he would
(39:51):
have been a really good sportand I would have been the one.
That was super uncomfortable.
So they're probably right.
And then having to try andfigure out like, do I take it
back?
They'd be like oh no, not foryou.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
Oops, they must have sent the wrong thing and Amazon.
Speaker 6 (40:09):
I'll just take that back yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
I'll return it, don't worry.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
For the context of this next clip.
We're talking aboutembarrassing things that could
happen when I happen to tell myfriend that the stories I'm
getting from my male friendswere all very similar.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I mean from the other sounds like I could have
shipped my pants when left thoseand that kind of stuff.
I'm saying I think that's worse, you should get yourself in
public.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
I can't put another story on this podcast Every dude
has shit a a .
Speaker 2 (40:48):
Why is that?
The only thing they want totalk about.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
It was like I interviewed five dudes and a
couple ladies and it's like shitstory, shit story, shit story,
shit story.
I was like I gotta interview awoman.
I'm just making the samemistake over and over again?
Do you have a skeleton in yourcloset or a most embarrassing
story or something that isshameful?
Speaker 8 (41:10):
Yeah, of course Everybody does.
Speaker 7 (41:13):
Do you want to share?
Speaker 8 (41:14):
There was a time period when I was shooting
X-rays for a portable X-raycompany.
I was shooting them all overTexas and I had I was driving, I
hadn't eaten dinner and I droveto my appointment and I hadn't
eaten.
So I grabbed a soda and aburrito right before I went
(41:35):
there and so I did the X-ray onthe lady.
I had my machine walked by thenurses station.
They weren't there and so I wasjust left, you know, to go to
process the X-ray.
And I walked out the door,going to go to the parking lot,
(41:56):
and I just ripped the loudestbeefer in the history of the
world and I heard half a dozengirls laughing and cracking up.
They were all outside smokingand I didn't see them when I
walked out the door.
I never turned around and Inever went back ever again.
You never told me that story.
(42:16):
Well, most of my stories arevery similar to that.
I'm not the hero in most of mytales.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
My brother had like my brother wanted to share like
almost a very similar situation.
Never in my life has that everbeen an issue.
Speaker 8 (42:40):
Well, you don't eat gas station burritos, then
that's it.
That's all I got.
Speaker 1 (42:48):
That's all the extra content we have for you today.
I hope you enjoyed the littlebit of extra.
Remember to like and subscribeto the podcast to catch every
episode and the bloopers.
We'll catch you next time.
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