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August 25, 2025 45 mins

Ever wonder why one piece of content flops while another unexpectedly takes off? In this episode, I’m joined by copywriter Emily Aborn to talk about what really makes words connect with people, and why clarity and simplicity often win over polished perfection.

Emily shares insights on how distraction, overwhelm, and vague messaging can push your audience away, and what to focus on instead to keep their attention. She offers practical, straightforward advice for making your copy more engaging and relatable without adding more noise.

We also touch on the role of AI in writing and why genuine human connection will always matter most in marketing. If your website copy, emails, or posts aren’t landing the way you want, this conversation will help you rethink how you’re showing up with your words.

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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Hostager (00:05):
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.

(00:28):
Back in the early days, when Ihad a design agency business,
back like 15 years ago,everybody said that content was
king.
So I was dedicated to creatinga blog post every week, without
fail.
Every Wednesday afternoon and,if I'm being real, Wednesday
nights too I sat at my computerand created what I felt like was

(00:50):
the best dang blog post anybodyhas ever created.
Then I would send it out to myemail list and that was it,
crickets.
I'm pretty sure if you've everwritten a blog post, you've
experienced that same thing atsome point early on.
But the blog post I threwtogether in like 10 minutes and
posted about how to add a signupform to my website page went

(01:13):
viral.
Seriously.
It was picked up by otherpublications and I received
comments on that post for years.
Probably the worst post I'veever created.
The reason that did well isthat there was nothing else
about that on the internet andmy article became the sole
source of content for thatparticular topic.
Now.
A lot of things aboutcopywriting have changed in the

(01:35):
last 15 years, especially withAI, but one thing remains the
same.
You need to get and holdsomeone's attention with your
words to stand out online.
In a world of non-stopscrolling, short attention spans
and way too much noise, how doyou actually hold someone's
attention and turn thatattention into a connection with

(01:55):
your customer?
My guest today knows a thing ortwo about standing out.
She's a copywriter who does notjust write words.
She writes words that connect,and today we're talking about
ways to increase attention,increase visibility and to
connect.
My guest today is Emily Aborn.
She's a small businesscopywriter, content marketing

(02:16):
consultant, speaker and podcasthost.
If you've been wondering how toget seen and remembered, you're
going to love my conversationwith Emily.
She brings 100% to herinterviews.
So here's our talk.
Well, hey, Emily, welcome to MyWeekly Marketing.

Emily Aborn (02:32):
Hi, Janice, thanks for having me.

Janice Hostager (02:36):
So we're talking a lot about distraction
and copywriting today and I wantto I kind of want to get into
the tactics later.
But what was the wake up callfor you about how hard it is to

(03:01):
maintain attention online?

Emily Aborn (03:03):
It's funny so the wake up call did not even happen
in an online experience, it wasa women's conference and I'm
sitting amongst all these womenand the speaker at the close to
the end of her talk.
She still had about 10, 15minutes to go.
She asks us all to take a QRcode picture.
I don't really know how itworks.
I'm not the QR person of one ofthe slides and everybody takes

(03:23):
out their cell phone and pointsit towards the QR code and take
this survey is what she waslooking for.
So next thing, you know, Ithink like five minutes had gone
by and I looked up and I'm like, oh, I was just like checking
my email.
I was on I think I was onInstagram.
Real quick, you're in thisconference all day, so I'm like
I'll take this moment to deletesome emails.

(03:44):
So I look up and everybody inthe room was still looking at
their cell phones and she hadeven told us like look up when
you're done.
So I just noticed like otherpeople were not still filling
out that survey.
The survey took all of twoseconds.
They were also checking theiremails and they were also
looking at Instagram.

(04:05):
So fast forward to like twosessions later and this woman
gives us these handouts thathave every single word of her
talk printed out on the handout.
And so, don't you know, I paida lot of attention to this
handout in front of me and not alot of attention to the person
in front of me speaking.
So that started me going onthis like quest to figure out A.

(04:30):
Is this me Like?
Am I just like distracted, oris this something that I can
work on as a speaker and also asa writer, to prevent people
from doing?
And so I found a ton of like.
If you Google, are wedistracted, or are we like, how
distracted are we?
You will get page after pageafter page of result and it's

(04:51):
very interesting what came up.

Janice Hostager (04:54):
That is so true .
I have absolutely been toconferences and, and it seems
like such an innocuous mistake,right?
Like, just use your phone toscan this QR code and then you
forget that you've justimmediately brought your entire
audience to your cell phoneinstead of listening to what
you're going to say next.
Right, I love that example forsure.
So how does that?
How does copywriting come inwith that?

Emily Aborn (05:25):
So what I was noticing is that when you're
reading something.
The human brain naturallyspends like half, almost half,
of its time distracted, andthat's like your normal state,
like your brain is kind of wiredto just sort of like wander
around, like if you've evermeditated or paid attention to
your thoughts, there are somevery interesting things
happening.
It's just your brain is justkind of on a little you know who
knows where mission all daylong.
So when we are bringingsomebody in to like read our
websites or engage with oursocial media or listen to our

(05:48):
podcasts, we can use somespecific tools to help keep
their brains engaged.
Like I don't know if you'veever been like reading a book,
for example, and you're justlike, wow, I didn't read the
last five pages of that book,right.
So it's the same thing thathappens with our websites and
the goal is for our websitesthey're definitely reading it
differently than a book.

(06:08):
Like they're coming to ourwebsite it should just be a
couple minutes of their time,realistically, and we want to
make sure that that couple ofminutes is honored and well
spent and giving them theinformation that they need.
So I'm happy to walk throughlike some actual do's and don'ts
with you on things that I'velearned in our copy and some of

(06:30):
it applies to spoken content aswell.

Janice Hostager (06:33):
Yeah, absolutely.

Emily Aborn (06:34):
So, The first one is like not info
dumping.
And I see a lot of websiteslike this I'm sure you do too
where they give you like all ofthese stats.
It could be anything.
It could be all of these stats.
It could be really complexlanguage and like industry
jargon and just making thingsreally really complicated.
And, like I know you want totell people every single step of

(06:56):
your process like in greatdetail.
But that is not the place forit, right?
That's more for kind of likeonce they're already a client,
then we're onboarding them andthen they need to know all of
those details.
So just really think about,like what is the goal of this
page and how can I keep it assimple as possible and in like
natural conversational language?

(07:17):
So that was the first one,because, if you, like, I work
for a local small businessorganization.
I get to interview theirclients and a lot of those
websites are just info dumps.
They are just page after pageafter page of the details and
I'm like I don't even know whatto ask this person for our
interview, because I have toread this dissertation to get

(07:39):
through it.
So it could be anything again,like any over explanation, any
overly detailed stats, vaguelanguage, complex language,
things like that.
Conversely, though, I'm going tosay don't be vague or like
empty in what you're saying.
Like a lot of people offerthese sort of empty, open ended

(08:02):
promises.
You're like I don't really knowwhat that means, but it sounds
nice to step into my, I'm onlyusing this as an example.
It sounds nice to step into myauthentic power, right, but like
what does that actually mean?
And I think those things arefine in certain spots, because
our brains definitely go througha website in different ways,
but you don't want to be likejust all fluff and have nothing

(08:25):
tangible, because that's alsovery just.
You know, you're going to checkout.
You're going to be like well,there's nothing really in
English here, so I will bemoving on.

Janice Hostager (08:34):
That is super interesting because I can tell
you examples of both of those.
In fact, I was working with aclient just yesterday and this
was in a printed piece.
But we were going through oneparagraph over and over and over
and over again I think therewere maybe only four sentences
on there and I said you know,nobody's going to read this.

(08:56):
I mean, it's not that nobodywould read it, it would just be
like very few people would readit.
And so I think that's reallyinteresting that you know that
that's something we don't thinkabout, especially when we've got
a message to tell we want togive 100% to selling, whatever
it is, our service, our offering, whatever it is.

(09:16):
So we want to make sure thatit's really clear and that it
pulls in everybody.
So I completely agree with that.
I think that's great.

Emily Aborn (09:25):
The other place I see people do this a lot is in
their bio.
Like their bio will either belike every single letter behind
their name that they've everachieved or it will just be like
I don't really know what thattitle is, you know, like
happiness giver, you're justlike I'm not sure what they do,
but it sounds nice.
So I think those are otherthings that we can do.
Like the bio is alreadysomeplace where people when

(09:49):
they're reading it for example,like when you're a podcast guest
you're just kind of skimming itthrough.
So it does not need to be likethis whole, you know your whole
life story and I guess, onbouncing like right off of that
and I this is my cross to bear.
I love side quests, I loveparentheses, I love my little
like asides, my jokes, you knowall of this stuff and they are

(10:12):
fantastic in moderation.
They can be totally distractingwhen they're overused.
Like I think tasteful humor ona website is absolutely chef's
kiss, perfect, throughout ourcopy.
But I can watch myself like godown this whole side quest and
then I'm like, oh my gosh, it'sso irrelevant and it was like a

(10:33):
paragraph, not just aparentheses.
You know so I do.
You know I have to be cognizantof it, especially in my podcast
too, because I'm there for areason.
It's not that I don't wantpeople to know about my life, I
do.
I love connecting with peopleon those things, but I just have
to make sure that that's notlike the meat of the podcast.

(10:54):
You know, I'm really puttingthe emphasis on like what I'm
actually there to share, sothat's an important one and that
translates throughout ourcontent, whether it be written
or audio or when we're speakingfrom the stage.
And then this one I think wecould just put as like the
fundamental, and that's likedon't forget who you're speaking

(11:14):
to.
When I'm on a website, I want tofeel like you know who I am,
you're talking to me and it islike that kind of one to one
connection.
Even big companies do thisreally well.
I'm like looking at a new emailmarketing service right now and
I'm looking through their sitesand I can tell the ones that
have taken the time to figureout who their ideal client is,

(11:35):
because it talks to me.
It's not just like over my heador speaking to some big agency,
like it's speaking right to me.
So remember who your customersare and use that to your
advantage.
Don't leave them out, don't.
This is not the us, us, us show.
And then the last one, and thisis like probably my well, it's

(11:56):
not my biggest pet peeve, butit's up there.
It's just having like too manylinks or too many calls to
action.
So you kind of want to think Ilike to think of every page
having its own goal and its ownexperience.
So, for example, on my homepage, my goal is to get you to go to
one of my other pages.

(12:16):
I want you to either learnabout me or I want you to check
out my services.
It's really it.
At that point I mean, yes, ifyou're like moved to contact me,
I'm happy for that too.
But those are my two main goals, because I know that by taking
you there you're going to getthe information you need to then
contact me.
So I always try to give everysingle page like one main call

(12:39):
to action and keep focusing onthat call to action, whether
that be your about page, yourservices page, your contact page
, etc.
But when you start likepummeling in all those links,
you know and interlinks arefantastic, so like that's a way
to keep people engaged on yoursite.
If, for example, you have aninterlink where it says small

(13:02):
business copywriter I'm justusing that as an example and
people could click that word andit takes them to my small
business copywriter page inanother tab, right?
Because then it's like, oh, Ican read that after I do this,
all the time I'll have like onewebsite and like 10 links of
their site across my screen,because I'm like, oh, I got to
read this page and this page andthis page and this page.

(13:23):
So that's a good tactic, butit's when you just kind of like,
try to spread them in alldifferent directions that I
would encourage not doing.

Janice Hostager (13:34):
Such great tips .
I especially really like the onebeing in marketing, where you
talk about your ideal customeravatar and really getting to
know them.
In my course I do an entiremodule on this part of it
because I think so many peopleare afraid to get narrow, so
many people are vague and itcomes across especially in the

(13:56):
copy.
Just really getting to knowthat In fact I always say and I
do this myself is that I have apicture of my ICA sitting right
next to my computer when I'mwriting to that ICA.
So I give my ideal customeravatar, my ICA, a photo and
everything and have a fullbackground on them, so that when

(14:17):
I'm writing to them, I'mwriting to them.

Emily Aborn (14:20):
I love that and I do that with like.
I'm just going to give you apodcasting example.
I do that with my podcast.
I'll even use that person'sname like one listener in my
episode, and so then they'llreach out and be like oh my God,
I heard my name in the episodetoday, you know.
But I'm literally picturingthem the whole time that I'm
talking and I'll change it up,obviously depending on what the

(14:41):
topic is.
But I really I mean, you can dothat in anything your email.
You're not emailing your wholequote unquote list, you're
emailing one person on the otherside, a social media post.
I'm not like sitting there withall my friends reading your
social media posts.
It's one person on the otherside.
So it's easy to forget and it'simportant Like I don't even say

(15:02):
listeners, I'll say likelistener or friend.
And then same thing on mywebsite.
I wouldn't refer to people aslike hello, all of you here.
I would use one person.

Janice Hostager (15:13):
Right, right, yeah, even on social media.
In fact, I was talking to aclient the other day who would
always start her social mediaposts with hey guys and I said,
nope, you're not talking toeverybody, you're just talking
to the one, and she has nobackground in marketing, so she
was a little thrown by that.
It's like which one.

(15:36):
But I think it's such a smallthing, but it really does have
power and especially if you arereally, you've got that person
in mind when you're writing andyour whole email, whatever it is
you're writing, comes acrossdifferently.

Emily Aborn (15:46):
Yeah, that's when people reply to you and they're
like, oh my gosh, you wrote thatfor me or I'm feeling that way
too.
You know, there really is a bigdifference.
So I have some do's because Idon't like to just all, I don't
like to totally don't us.
Okay, yes, please, all right.
So same number of do's for thedon'ts to keep us balanced.
So do we're doing this rightnow?

(16:06):
We're like telling stories andsharing personal experiences,
and this is such a fantastic wayto keep people engaged, because
the truth of the matter isthere's a lot of options for
people to go to, to choose aservice provider.
There's a lot of options forpodcasts, and they're choosing
you because of you.
So do tell your stories andshow your personality and like
you want to be yourself, youknow, I think that really, that

(16:30):
is engaging in and of itself,and I don't care if somebody's
like I'm boring.
You're not boring, you're not.
Everybody puts their shoes onone at a time.
We all.
You know we're all doing thesame exact things, so we're all
boring.
And especially in the age of AI, I think that there is just
something about like beingourselves, bringing in our own

(16:52):
unique humor.
Like that is irreplaceable, andI guarantee you my AI so far
has not replaced mine.
I'm much funnier.
No, just kidding.
The second one is like, wheneverpossible, use visuals or like
mixed media.
So I have a collaborator.
Her name is Barb Davids.

(17:12):
She's of the Small BusinessSweet Spot podcast and when she
writes a blog she doesn't justwrite a blog.
It is incredible.
She'll have headings andbullets, she'll have little
sections of pull quotes, she'llhave a little audio clip of the
next section.
You can read it and listen tothe audio.
She might have a little chartor a graph.

(17:34):
It's really fantastic and ifyou miss something when you're
reading, you can like have thekind of like visuals next to it
to guide you.
And it also pulls my attentionto like what part of the article
might be relevant for me,because maybe the whole thing
isn't relevant for me, maybe Ijust came for the quick tips,
you know, and I can see tip one,tip two, tip three.
So I love kind of like mixing upthose visuals and I'll do that

(17:59):
as a copywriter I'm able to dothat with sometimes, like I
might treat the text, like Imight have a italicized subtitle
, you know, or I might say thiswould look really good in
accordion or bullet points, orwe'll do different things to the
text.
So it's not just all like wallof text, wall of text.
And honestly, bullet points arenot as popular as they used to

(18:22):
be.
Like, I kind of keep it to likethree or five when I'm using
bullet points.
But I'll mix things up in otherways, like I might use a series
of like short, choppy sentencesand then do like a really long
sentence.
So it's just kind of likemixing up the variety of how
you're writing.

(18:44):
The other one and we've touchedon this is like just making sure
I'm showing why it matters tothem.
Like I'm here for a reason,show me quickly why it matters
to me, or else you lose myattention.
And this is true for anything.
Like it's true for the TV showswe watch, the things we read.
The emails we open.
All of it.

Janice Hostager (19:02):
I just want to jump in.
One of the things that I thinkI always think good copy does is
it can communicate emotion.
So what you just said makes alot of sense.
It's like why is this relevantfor me?
And then you can kind of hit onan emotional part of it.
Is that just for me, or is thatsomething that is like standard
?

Emily Aborn (19:21):
Yeah, absolutely, and there are all sorts of ways
to do that.
You know you can play aroundwith, like bringing somebody
into the narrative or whateveryou're trying to portray, rather
than like have them be outsideof it.
Right, there's just all sortsof different ways to get them to
feel it.
You can use sensory experienceslike sound, smell, sight, all
of that in your language, andplay with those.

(19:42):
So I like trying to think tomyself okay, what are like three
different brain types?
Like it could be the sameavatar, right, but what if their
brain is sort of like a visualbrain?
What if their brain is asensory brain?
You know, what if they're aheart-centered person, like I
like to speak to all thosedifferent parts of them and
bring those all into the page tooffer kind of a different

(20:04):
experience for the same person.

Janice Hostager (20:07):
Great point, great point.

Emily Aborn (20:09):
And then this one is like probably my favorite,
like for writing.
Or I started doing this in myemails and I got away from it
and I have to get back, but it'slike giving people a preview of
what you're going to be talkingabout.
This is best for like long form.
So if you're doing a blog or anemail, you might see at the top
of those emails how they havelike a T-L-D-R Too long didn't

(20:32):
read.
Sometimes I'll do a littlesummary.
I don't do a T-L-D-DR because,see, I can't even remember the
four letters, but I'll do like alittle summary at the top that
says like what's inside, andI'll just have like boom, boom,
boom, and that is like a goodway to let them know like okay,
a, this email has an end.
B, it has a goal right.
And C, this is what's in it forme right from the get go, and

(20:55):
so they can kind of like movethrough the email that way.
Also, so great for blogs.
In blogs I'll also summarize.
So I might say like okay, torecap, we had bullet point one,
two, three, four, five orwhatever you know.
Five points are X, y, z.
Go forth and implement them.
And it's just a good way to keeppeople like if they missed,

(21:16):
let's say, bullet point numberthree, they can go back up and
be like, oh, I didn't see thattip because I was skimming or I
didn't catch that, or how you'resupposed to implement that, and
that's when I might like to try.
So I'm going to go back up andreread it.
I think that's, those are my,those are my do's.

Janice Hostager (21:33):
Those are great .
I mean, I think you've hiteverything.
I do have some more questionsfor you here.
So one of the things you saidis that you know you really want
to connect with people becauseobviously visibility is good,
but if you're not connecting,you're not going to probably
convert them right, and I lovethat.
You said that you do it for thevisual person or the person

(21:53):
that really loves facts andfigures, and so are you throwing
a little of everything intoyour copy, basically, or what is
a way that you can show up orwrite that turns readers into
someone that trusts you?

Emily Aborn (22:09):
Yes, I would say.
I would say like yes, putthings in, as long as you're
confident that you can do sointentionally and thoughtfully.
So let's say, let's just walkthrough a website, because I
think it's easiest.
So at like the top of the pageyou have like the promise, right
Like the brand sort of promise,and that's just kind of a quick
way to say here's who we are asa company, here's what we do

(22:32):
and we know who you are.
It's just your fast moment ofconnection for them, and then
you might have a littledescription underneath that.
Then sometimes I will have funand like show them, you know,
you want to show them, youunderstand.
So I might have some like painpoints or empathy points.
I don't like even using, likecalling them pain points, but
just ways to show them.

(22:53):
I get what you're going throughand I know it's hard and I'm
also here to help you.
I'm not doing this in a shystyway, it's a very ethical, gentle
way and sometimes I will usethose facts and figures or the
informational stuff in a morevisual way.
So one person I have right nowit's a charity fund and we're

(23:15):
going to line up sort of thedollars that they give every
year the amount of organizationsthat they give to, and then
like one other little stat rightthere, because otherwise it'd
just be like you'd just bereading this list of statistics
you know about their financialsand that's not very inspiring.
So it's kind of just thinkingof different ways that you can

(23:36):
bring in, like to your point,the different brain types and
show people different pieceswithout overwhelming them.

Janice Hostager (23:46):
That's a good idea, because that is sort of
what comes to mind for me.
If I'm putting together a salespage, I'll think, well, I need
a section with facts and I needa section with design or
something that appeals to everykind of brain type, and I love
what you know.
That way is so much better tojust kind of combine them
together so you're not just likehaving different parking lots

(24:08):
on your sales page.

Emily Aborn (24:10):
Sales pages are honestly the hardest.
Like, I don't touch those witha 10 foot pole, but I do,
another way you could do this isto sit down before you start it
and ask yourself what are allthe questions that this person
has I mean, I do this withwebsites too.
What are all the questions Ineed to answer for them before I

(24:31):
get them to take the next step?
So like, right here, what isthe question that is burning on
their mind?
How can I answer it for them?
And then I just kind of likewalk through those.
You know you have to arrangethe questions obviously sensibly
.
They can't be like now what?
And that's at the top of thepage, right, you have to answer
that last.

Janice Hostager (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, well, that's really good because
you do want to counterobjections.
Basically, their questions aregoing to be future objections.
So you do want to counter themas you go along, so that you're
not waiting until they're ready.
You're asking them to put downtheir credit card and they're
like well, I've got all thesequestions.
So if you're working that in, Ithink that's very powerful and
I have a sales page templatethat I use typically and I kind

(25:14):
of have that worked in as well.
So I 100% agree with that.
So I'm curious about yourbackground.
So what made you want to be acopywriter, or have you always
done this?
Is this like something that youdreamed of as a child and went
into it?
Cause I love people's stories.

Emily Aborn (25:37):
I always read the back of the cereal box and the
sales on the back of the cerealboxes, Janice.
But I actually went to collegefor health education and it was
in college that I ended upworking as a copywriter for,
like a outdoor sports company.
My whole family like worked atthe sports company and this was
they needed, like a summerfill-in for somebody going on

(25:58):
sabbatical.
So I got to work as acopywriter and it was not the
most inspiring copywriting.
Like.
It was like technical writing,so it's like about carabiners
and things like that, but Iloved it.
I was like, oh my God, this is.
You can get paid to write.
Why didn't I go?
I'm a junior in college at thistime, so I'm like I should have
gone to college for this.
Nobody told me.

(26:20):
And I've always loved writing.
I was the first kid on Blogger,whenever it was a thing.
I don't even think it wascalled Blogger, it was something
else, but I was that kid andI'm in my room typing out these
novels.
So that has always been my love.
And when I okay.
So I started working for likechiropractors and different

(26:43):
health companies as a healtheducator and it was like in
doing that that I did tons oftheir marketing work and I just
kind of like evolved, like, oh,this is actually a job, this is
a position, like I didn't't know.
You know, you're in your 20sand you're just trying to find
yourself.
So it was.
It was through a retail shopthat my husband and I owned that

(27:06):
I sort of like started dippingmy toes into, like what I'm
going to do next, and that'swhen I opened my copywriting
business in 2018.

Janice Hostager (27:15):
Oh, cool, cool.
I've always used copy in myworld I mean marketing and I
think now I feel like so many ofus as small business owners we
do.
We end up writing our own copyright.
So what I found, and what I'venoticed quite a bit with clients
, is that they turn to ChatGPT.
So what are your feelings aboutChatGPT or AI in general?

Emily Aborn (27:38):
Okay, so I've gone like a 180 and then 180, back
again.
Are youready for this?
So when it first came out I waslike no, I hate this.
This is going to replace all ofour jobs.
I'm doomed, the sky is falling.
And then I was like, well, thisis actually a good like
ideation tool and it can reallyhelp me with outlining and, like
you know what, refining thingsand such.

(28:01):
Then I started seeing, like allof this people are just
actually using it, like they'rejust using it, copying and
pasting and calling it a day,and I don't care what anyone
says, I can call it out, like itis so obvious.
It has so so many tells notprobably everybody can, but
they're, you know, a trained eyecan catch that in a second and

(28:24):
it's not it's.
You might think like, oh, but itsaves me so much time and money
.
But let me ask you this does itsave you time and money if
somebody looks at it, writes youoff as inauthentic or like not
being you and then doesn't evenread what you had to say?
You know it's like that kind ofmentality.
Or you lose a client becausethey realize that you're not

(28:47):
trustworthy and I'm not sayingyou're not trustworthy if you're
using ChatGPT.
I'm just saying that that couldbe an outcome.
So, as a writer, I do disclosethat I will use it to refine my
work.
So I'm always making sure that,like what I'm doing for my off
on a little side quest here andI will use it to kind of like

(29:22):
make sure that I'm aligned.
I do not copy and paste whatChatG PT has me use because
honestly, I'll read, like eventhe taglines, I'll read them and
I'll be like, oh my God,they're all so bad, they're just
not anything I would ever sayand the other, like defense

(29:44):
against not using it is I don'tpersonally really want to lose
my creativity.
I don't want to lose like thatmuscle and I'm really nervous
about like people, like theydon't think anymore.
You know they're just liketurning to whatever this next
shiny object is and even havingconversations with it and losing
the human connection.
I'm just like your Chat GPTisn't your ideal client avatar,

(30:04):
like you need to go actuallytalk to your ideal client to
find out what they're thinkingand feeling.

Janice Hostager (30:11):
Yes, yeah, I think it's an excellent tool,
but I love what you said aboutlosing your brain, because you
do after a while especially andit's so tempting, especially at
the end of the day, and you'vegot to write an email and you're
like I got nothing, you know,and then oftentimes I'll turn to
it, see what it has to say, andthen at least it will spark an
idea, you know.
So I kind of feel like it'sreally good for sparking ideas.

(30:33):
I also use it for kind of whatyou were saying, like you'll put
a draft you have alreadycompleted into ChatGPT or an AI
program and look at its feedback, which I found really, really

(30:54):
helpful when I was puttingtogether a new course that I've
just created too.
This is kind of scary, but Iwould say, in this module, I
think I'd like to do this, thisand this.
Is this too much?
or is it?
enough, do I need to includeanything else?
And it would tell me andsometimes it would be wrong I
felt like it's telling me toinclude it, but I don't think
it's a good fit.

Emily Aborn (31:08):
It is wrong sometimes.

Janice Hostager (31:10):
Yeah, and you know.
But there are other times whereit said you should also include
this.
And I'll be like, yeah, Ishould.
So it's really.
It was scary to me because itwould start giving me strokes.
I'm like good job, Janice, youknow.
And I was like don't talk to methis way.
This is creeping me out.

Emily Aborn (31:30):
It is using sycophancy to keep us engaged,
which is totally a way to keeppeople engaged.
But yeah, it is, I'll be likeyou don't need to be so over the
top.
I quickly learned like oh, it'scalling everyone a genius, not
just me.
You suddenly think you're likeoh yeah, I'm so smart.
But another great way forsomebody to use it would be to

(31:55):
generate questions for a podcastinterview or a sales call.
You know, it's great for stufflike that.
I always have to read thequestions because I co-host a
podcast with somebody andsometimes I'll come with a
question and he's like thatdoesn't apply at all.
I'm like, oh my God, I'm sosorry I didn't read it, so you
do have to read them.
And then, like I love it foroutlining it.

(32:17):
You know, have troublestructuring things, so super
helpful for structure.
And then the other recent thingI do like it for is connecting
dots.
If you've ever had a great story, you're like I don't know how
to make this work with my themeor the goal of this newsletter,
right, but it's such a goodstory.
I recently had one where Iwalked out of an acupuncturist

(32:40):
with an acupuncture needlesticking out of my head and I'm
like I have to make, I have tofigure out, like, how this
connects.
Fortunately, this one I figuredout on my own, but it's so, it
would be perfect to like connectthose dots, right.
Like how does this story relateto the point I'm trying to get
across?

Janice Hostager (32:56):
Yes.

Emily Aborn (32:56):
You don't, I don't say like can you draft it for me
?
I'm just like can you connectthese dots for me?
Or like, give me an inroadright and then I can go.

Janice Hostager (33:03):
Right.
Yeah, yeah, and one of theplaces I do see a lot of people
using AI, and I know it's AIbecause I get a lot of emails
from people, as you probably dotoo, saying can I be a guest on
your podcast, and they all soundalike.

Emily Aborn (33:19):
The exact same email.

Janice Hostager (33:21):
Yes yeah, and I think you know people need to
be aware of that.
That.
You know it may sound reallygood, but if everybody's using
it, you're blending in, you'renot standing out and it's you're
not likely to probably get theattention of the person that you
want the attention.

Emily Aborn (33:36):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
It just makes them annoyed.
You know you're like greatthanks.
Did you even look at my show?

Janice Hostager (33:42):
Yes, yeah, and most of the time, honestly, I
don't think yeah, buteverybody's busy, right?
No shade, I'm just saying.

Emily Aborn (33:51):
No shade, but don't do it.

Janice Hostager (33:53):
Yeah, okay.
So now we're going to do a gamecalled Rapid Fire Takeaways.
So I'm going to ask you somequestions.
I don't have a timer or anything, so not a huge amount of
pressure, just enough pressure,all right.
So I'm going to ask you somequestions and I'd love to hear
your feedback on it.
So ready.

Emily Aborn (34:14):
I'm game.

Janice Hostager (34:15):
All right.
One underrated place peoplearen't showing up enough online.

Emily Aborn (34:27):
Okay, I did this recently.
A friend was launching a newproduct and she roped in a
couple.
Not roped in, she asked acouple of us if we would like
help her make posts around theproduct.
There was no affiliate, nokickback, nothing.
We just were like, if you'reexcited to help me share this
thing, please help me share.
And I everybody was so psychedto help her out.
I mean, she must have had 30people doing posts for her
during her launch and it blewher away like how seen she felt

(34:50):
during that.
That opened up for me like, oh,that is such an underrated way
to collaborate on social mediaas small business owners.
And even just like maybe youjust have somebody on social
media where you're like, let'sbe each other's commenting
buddies.
You know to like get some sortof traction on the post.
So I think that's what I wouldsay.

Janice Hostager (35:10):
I love that idea.
I mean, yeah, you don't need topay anybody to do it, you just
ask them.
Yeah, all right, onecopywriting pet peeve you wish
everyone would stop doing.

Emily Aborn (35:23):
Okay, I love the word authentic so much.
I love it, but I don't like itas copy because it just doesn't
work anymore.
It's like we have become numbto the word authentic, I think,
and so I would say that isprobably one I would say, find a
different word.
There's so many wonderful onesthat describe authentic.

Janice Hostager (35:45):
Yeah, and that's what I use ChatGPT for a
lot too, is my thesaurus, youknow, just like I need another
word for this, and I don't knowwhat authentic means really
either.
So I'm with you on that one.
One easy way to be more you inyour marketing, more of yourself
and your own personality, yourauthentic self.

Emily Aborn (36:04):
So I guess I would say, like, okay, I'm going to
say, ask your partner or yourclosest friend or somebody very
close to you in your life, whatone word describes your
personality, how they perceiveyou.
Maybe you do this with a coupleof people and then, if that
feels right to you, like ifthat's like, oh yes, I am that

(36:26):
you know, let like focus on thatword for a little while and
letting that through in whateveryou're doing, like, oh, how can
I show my you know silly sideor my quirky side, if that's it?
Or how can I be a littlebuttoned up and professional on
my website?
So I guess that would be myencouragement is like, don't
just ask yourself who you are,because it can be really hard to

(36:48):
see yourself and know yourpersonality and like how that
even comes through.
But getting somebody else'sperspective on it is such a fun
way to.
It also gives you like a littletiny permission slip.
Not that you need it to be moreof that thing.

Janice Hostager (37:04):
Right, right.
Yeah, that's a good point,because people, if you ask
people and they all say, oh,you're so funny and you don't
think you're funny or whatever,you can pull that out of your
personality.
And it is hard because I feel aphrase I like to use a lot is a
jar can't read its own label,and that is so true.
I think we all need mirrors.

(37:26):
You know, our friends arepeople around us to be mirrors.
So one visibility tactic that'sworking right now that most
people aren't using aren't usingCollaboration.

Emily Aborn (37:42):
It is the theme of my month on my podcast right now
and I swear by it.
It is how I built my business.
Collaboration they look thereare so many different ways to do
them.
It does not have to be like anevent or webinar, but harness
the power of collaborationbecause basically, it takes your
message, multiplies it and thenhelps you spread that further
together.
You know.
So that is, and you're notdoing it alone, which is
sometimes the hardest part.

Janice Hostager (38:04):
Right, right, one thing you always include in
writing a headline or a hook.

Emily Aborn (38:09):
Who and what, who I'm talking to and what this is
going to get for them.
I mean, you don't have to do itovertly like that, you know,
like for the small businessowner who wants to, but there
are ways to do it, like always,just make sure the headline
clearly gives a who and a what.

Janice Hostager (38:26):
Oh, I love that .
I don't think I do that, soit's hard.
It is hard.
One thing you fix on 90% ofhomepages.
So, we talked a little bitabout this earlier, but I think

(38:48):
it's just like a focused goalfor the homepage, you know, like
giving it a clear call toaction, clear next steps and not
overwhelming them withinformation, love it.

Emily Aborn (38:53):
One mistake people make when trying to be relatable
.
Okay, janice and I did talkabout this earlier, but it's
when people use these trendingphrases like I don't know who
needs to hear this, but it'sbasically trending stuff.
I think trends are fine, butwhen you overuse them, you do
blend in more than you stand out.
So I don't know them allbecause I don't use them all,

(39:14):
but there are things that startin trendy ways.
I guess is my guess.

Janice Hostager (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, anything cliche probably yes yes
.
Yeah, one copywriting lessonyou learned the hard way.

Emily Aborn (39:25):
Okay, I think probably the hardest part of
being a copywriter is you getfeedback from people, a lot of
different people with a lot ofdifferent brains and a lot of
different preferences.
And so I have learned the hardway many, many, many times that
sometimes something is reallybeautifully written and somebody

(39:46):
still will not like it.
Sometimes you will not likesomething and somebody
absolutely loves it.
So that is something I havelearned A lot of writing and
what we are drawn to is simply amatter of preference, and
that's why it is important toknow who your ideal client is,
because you kind of want tounderstand what their

(40:07):
preferences are going to be whenthey're reading your writing.

Janice Hostager (40:11):
That's a really good point too, and I think too
, because I went to designschool for one of my degrees and
one of the things that we hadto do was stand up and defend
our designs in front of theclass and take the negative,
which was the best trainingground ever.
And I think, whenever we'rewriting for anybody else, or
even if we're writing for ourown company or own business,

(40:34):
knowing that it's just a thingyou know, you put it out there.
Anything creative, you do thebest you can in your way, and if
they don't like it, then it iswhat it is.
I mean you can change it, butyou're never going to please
everybody for sure.

Emily Aborn (40:48):
I used to get so worked up about it.
Even if somebody wanted tochange a period to like an
endless commas, I'd be likethat's not correct.
But now I'm just like no, ifthat is how you want it, like I.
Obviously I'm not going to letthem totally go off the rails
with grammar, but I will becognizant of the way that they
they like to phrase things andwrite things.

Janice Hostager (41:14):
The copyright lesson that I learned the hard
way was early on when I was ingrad school.
I'd had an internship in publicrelations and as an intern, I
put out a press release withoutdouble-checking the spelling of
someone's name and I had to callevery recipient of this press
release that went out like ahundred different offices and
say, hi, I'm the intern.
I just wanted to tell you thatI made a goof up.
So, anyway, it was veryhumiliating.

(41:36):
So the thing that I havelearned is to always, always,
always, double-check spellings.
So for thing that I havelearned is to always, always,
always double check spellings.
Yes, so for the small businesslistener that is feeling like
their content or their copy iskind of getting lost in the
noise, what would you say tothem?

Emily Aborn (41:52):
Simplify, simplify, simplify, simplify and get rid
of all of the unnecessary.
Simplify and get rid of all ofthe unnecessary.
There's this beautiful quoteand I cannot, for the life of me
, remember who says it butremove the unnecessary so that
the necessary can speak.
And I think when we get it'slike going through your closet
right.
When you get rid of all of thatstuff that you're not wearing
anymore and you don't need andit's all extraneous, then you

(42:15):
have room to start choosingthose curated pieces that you
want to add back in.
So don't be afraid to kill yourdarlings, as Stephen King says,
and delete things and save themsomewhere else if you want to,
you know, if you really don'twant to say goodbye to them
forever, but do delete as muchas you can, and I mean that as a

(42:36):
person who loves my words.

Janice Hostager (42:40):
I had this quote on my bulletin board when
I was in high school.
It was words are like sunbeamsthe more they are condensed, the
deeper they burn, and I knowit's a famous quote.
I don't remember who said it,but yeah, it's out there.
But I thought, oh, that is sotrue.

Emily Aborn (42:55):
I'm going to add that to my website With the
credit don't worry.

Janice Hostager (43:00):
Yes, I think it was someone famous, I just
don't remember.
It's been a long time since Ihad a bulletin board in high
school, but anyway.
Well, where can people find outmore about you and if you have
any resources to help them bebetter writers?

Emily Aborn (43:14):
Well, thank you for that offering.
I would love for people just toconnect with me on
emilyaborncom and then that way,if you are a social media
person, that's there.
If you like email, you know Ido give a lot of like writing
and marketing tips in my emails,but however you best like to
connect, it's all on my website.
So emilyaborncom.

Janice Hostager (43:36):
Sounds fabulous .
Thank you so much for joiningme today Emily.
Appreciate it.

Emily Aborn (43:41):
Thank you, Janice.

Janice Hostager (43:42):
So the next time you're staring at a blank
screen wondering what to write,remember what Emily said about
being clearer, truer and withwords, less is more.
To learn more about Emily oranything we talked about today,
visit myweeklymarketingcom.
Forward slash 122.
And if this episode gave yousomething to think about, would
you do me a quick favor?

(44:03):
Share it with a business friendtoo.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
See you next time.
Bye for now.
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