February 10, 2025 • 34 mins
Following up with leads can feel like a guessing game. How often should you reach out? What should you say? And how do you stay on their radar without being pushy? In this episode, Jason Kramer, CEO of Cultivize, shares his insights on lead nurturing and why it’s so much more than just sending follow-up emails. He breaks down the key elements of a solid nurturing strategy, from staying top-of-mind to using the right tools to track engagement.
We talk about real-world examples, practical tips, and simple ways to turn cold leads into loyal customers. If you’ve ever wondered why promising connections don’t always turn into sales, or how to fix that, this conversation has the answers.
- Show Notes
- Apply to be featured on My Weekly Marketing!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Hostager (00:04):
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
Have you ever met somebody at anetworking event, or maybe a
(00:36):
party, and you were sure thatthey wanted to do business with
you, only to not hear back fromthem after the event?
So what do you do?
Is it best to follow up withthem?
Maybe call them or send them anemail?
If so, how many emails shouldyou send?
How many calls should you make?
We've all probably been there,of course, and it is a challenge
to know what to do or not to doto follow up with a lead.
(00:57):
On this week's episode, JasonKramer is talking to us all
about lead nurturing.
Jason is the CEO of Cultivize,an agency that works exclusively
with businesses to convertleads into loyal customers.
If you're not familiar with theterm lead nurturing, it's
really following up with thelead so that they can get to
know, like and trust you andultimately, of course, do
(01:20):
business with you.
Think of lead nurturing likedating; you wouldn't want to
propose to somebody on the firstdate, so you want to build
trust, to get to know them andshow them you care before making
a big ask.
It's the same way withcustomers.
Instead of pushing a saleimmediately, you, one, want to
stay in touch.
Two, want to give some value.
(01:41):
Three, want to build trust andfour, make that big ask when
they're ready and not before.
So lead nurturing is justbuilding a relationship so that
when they're ready to buy,you're the obvious choice.
Jason's going to share hissecret sauce for, first of all,
setting up a process that willsystematize nurturing but also
(02:04):
give us some hints on how todetermine what to do and what to
say so that that potentialcustomer says yes.
So here's my conversation withJason.
Well, hey, Jason, welcome to MyWeekly Marketing.
Jason Kramer (02:18):
Thanks, Janice.
Thank you for having me.
Janice Hostager (02:21):
So let's start out talking a little bit about
you.
So tell us, now we're talkingall about lead nurturing today,
but tell us how you got into it.
It's so specific that I'mfascinated about your story.
Like, tell us how you got tothis point.
Jason Kramer (02:39):
Sure, I just loved kind of just working with
people and the idea of helpingpeople kind of spread
information, if you will.
So I started as a graphicdesigner working for agencies in
Manhattan and actually got intofreelancing a lot and decided
just a few years out of collegeand this is back in the early
2000s, just to date myself, Istarted my own company.
(03:00):
So I started a boutique webdevelopment and graphic design
agency, ran that for 16 yearsand over the course of that time
more towards the end of thatbusiness before I sold it, I
didn't do a lot of inboundmarketing for clients.
But when I talked to them abouttheir inbound marketing, they
never really had a way to trackall of their efforts.
So they were going to tradeshows, they were doing webinars,
(03:23):
they were doing networking,they were spending money on, you
know, Facebook or Google,whatever they were doing, and I
was always like, hey, how's thatworking for you?
And they never really couldtell me.
All they could tell me is oh, Imeet a lot of people or, you
know, I get it, I get.
You know, some hits my websiteor people thing on a form really
connect the dots, you know.
Nor were they actually doinganything to nurture
(03:45):
relationships, right?
So you have a great conversationwith somebody and if there's
not a alignment for them to buyfrom you or for something to
happen, if you're not constantlyin front of them, they could
forget about you.
Right, when they're ready to buy, they can buy from your
competitor because you're out ofthe picture.
They forgot about you, and so Igot really fascinated with that
(04:05):
and because I was already doinga lot of email marketing
through the agency I own for ourclients, I stumbled across
something relatively new andthis is going back into, I'd say
, probably in like 2015 or so,maybe a little earlier marketing
automation.
Marketing automation was juststarting at that point give or
take, and marketing automationis a way to stay in front of
(04:28):
people, to nurture people, to.
It's not just sending out amonthly newsletter, which is
part of it, but it's about doingother things, which we'll talk
about today, and so that's whatled me to this, to the idea of
how can we help people that areputting all this effort to
generate leads, but how do weget them to close more higher
percentage of those leads, andthat's what Cultivize is all
(04:49):
about.
Janice Hostager (04:50):
I love that because there are so many times
where I've talked to clients orpeople and they'll say, yeah, I,
you know, I talked to somebodyat, like you said, a conference
and they were super interested,but then they didn't, they
didn't call me, they didn'tfollow up with it.
And I would say, well, did youreach out to them?
And it's like, yeah, theydidn't return my email, you know
, and then it just sort of dropsand, as you know, everybody's
(05:12):
busy and you know we all meet alot of people, especially if
we're out and about at a tradeshow or an event or something
like that, and we really do needto continue that relationship
if it's going to grow.
Yeah, so, what about yourjourney?
Has been different than youexpected,
When you're working with, liketrying to teach people how to
(05:35):
nurture leads, so to speak.
Jason Kramer (05:37):
The thing that was an eye-opener for me was that
companies of all sizes whetherthey were a solopreneur, they
were a larger company, sevenfigures, they didn't have a
defined sales process that theywere following.
So they would get a lead, butthey didn't methodically go
about that lead the exact sameway every single time.
So, for example, if they hadnothing to do for a day because
(06:01):
they weren't that busy in anafternoon, they would send out a
bunch of emails or they'd belike oh, I spoke to Janice two
weeks ago, let me call her andfollow up, but it wasn't.
It was inconsistent, right, itwas because, like, it was just a
spur of the moment thought, andso to me that was really
shocking, especially fororganizations that had been
around for you know, a few years, that had a decent amount of
revenue coming in.
(06:21):
I'm like how do you not have aconsistent sales process?
How is that even possible?
And then, because they didn'thave that, they didn't have a
way to measure anything, and sothat, to me, was like a huge
eye-opener.
Where and the reason for thatyou don't know how to fix
something if you don't know it'sbroken is the first part.
So you're kind of stuck in yourmomentum and your behaviors.
(06:44):
It's like I always use theexample of, like working out at
the gym right, so you could beworking out at the gym for years
, going three days a week, butif you're doing the bench press
wrong or if you're doing theexercise wrong, then it's not
really giving you the resultsthat it could be giving you,
until a trainer comes along andsay, hey, J ason, like you
really shouldn't be arching yourback, you know, when you're
lifting those weights, becausethis is why it's hurting you,
(07:07):
right, and this is the benefit.
And so when you don't havethese processes, you are sort of
shooting from the hip right andyou're kind of going with your
instincts, and the reasonthey're not changing is they
don't know how to change.
They may want to change, butthey need the guidance.
And that's what I really loveabout working with our clients
is we, as much as we're a teamof consultants to help with CRM.
(07:30):
A lot of people would call uslike a coach or a mentor,
because we're really helpingthem reach, sort of train, their
thought process about how theybuild relationships with their
potential customers and thetools they can use, especially
in the modern era we live in ofall these things that are out
there and there's actually toomany tools out there, quite
honestly.
So it's like understanding whattools you can use that could be
(07:53):
most effective for you and foryour business.
Janice Hostager (07:57):
That's a good point, because the thing is that
oftentimes, even if we dounderstand that full customer
journey, sometimes we just don'thave a way to measure it.
I mean we just we can't connectthe dots right.
So if we know that people aremaybe opening our emails, but
some, we know that some peoplebought, but we don't know
exactly who that opened theemail actually bought and so on,
(08:21):
so we don't, we're not alwaysable to make that connection.
So I love that that you'reworking on that.
I also really like the factthat you are looking at one of
the things I tell clients allthe time and I think Amy
Porterfield or somebody elsecoined this phrase the money is
in the list, and growing andnurturing that email list is so
(08:43):
important even before, rightaway when you're starting your
business, even before you evenget really established.
If you can have a list goingin, not a purchase list, but a
list of people that are alreadyinterested that you can set up
those automations for, that canmake a huge difference down the
(09:03):
road, right?
Jason Kramer (09:05):
Absolutely.
So, My wife always jokes withme that I have sometimes really
terrible analogies, but here'sone more.
So, picture a car dealershipokay, and there's nobody in the
car dealership.
The doors are open, butnobody's there working, and you
come in on a Saturday morning.
You're looking for a car andyou start looking around.
Maybe you get in the front seator the driver's seat and you're
(09:28):
like I really like this car,but there's no one there to help
you, so you leave, right?
Now.
.
.
You may not be wanting to buy acar that day, but if you were
interacting with somebody, asalesperson maybe they could
have given you information,maybe they could have helped
work out a payment plan.
They could have all been donethese different things to help
potentially make that sale or atleast set up the sale for a
(09:48):
future date.
And so the reason of thatanalogy is important.
Email marketing is the mostinexpensive thing you can do,
sending out a monthly newsletter.
Whether you're using aMailChimp, whatever you're
using, right, it could bespending less than $50 a month.
The challenge with those toolsis that you don't know who's
actually engaging.
You might say, okay, thisperson clicked, this person
(10:10):
opened up my email, but whathappens if that person comes
back a week later to yourwebsite and starts spending 15
minutes on your website, right?
Or they come back three moretimes over the course of the
next month.
Your CRM system can tell youthat that person is going to be
highly engaged, and so therefore, it's kind of the scenario like
(10:30):
of the car dealership.
Now you know that, oh, John isactually coming back to my
website a lot.
Maybe John's interested.
Maybe I should call John,because you and I both know,
Janice, that every salestransaction that happens, it's
not always the buyer that'sknocking on your door and saying
please take my money, I want towork with you.
Sometimes you have to be moreproactive, and of course,
(10:55):
there's a comfort level tohaving the skill set and ability
to be forward and outbound.
But if you had that informationnow you're talking to people
that are raising their hand,that are showing signals that
they might want to buy from you,and so that's why this
information is so critical.
And when people tell me, ohyeah, I'm doing a newsletter and
(11:17):
they tell me they're justsending it out through a
MailChimp, I said that's a goodstart.
I said, but you're reallylosing so much value.
You're putting all this effortto sending out a newsletter and
it's really doing a disserviceto you because you don't know
anything happening after theyget the newsletter.
Janice Hostager (11:46):
Great point.
I'm a listener and I realizethat I want to start a process
or some kind of system so that Ican follow up.
I can send out emails, I canfollow up with all of this.
So what are the essentialelements or the strategies that
I should be looking at withregards to
lead nurturing?
Jason Kramer (11:56):
So, lead nurturing as a just a kind of definition,
it is what it sounds like,right?
So it's a process, a sequenceof events to stay in front of
that person.
Now it's not saying hey, Janice, will you buy from me?
Can you book a meeting?
When are you ready to buy?
When are you ready to buy?
It's about education, it's aboutbeing informative, and so, even
(12:18):
if you don't have a CRM andyou're listening today and you
don't do anything, all yournotes are on a pen and paper.
That's okay, right?
I mean, it's not okay.
We're going to get you pastthat point, but it's okay in the
sense of the conversation today.
And so, some of the things youcould be doing are creating a
set of what we call cadences.
Say, okay, every three weeks,every month, whatever it's going
(12:39):
to be, I'm going to make aphone call to this person.
I'm going to put on my calendarreminder to reach out to this
person, or an outlook, whateveryou're using.
I'm also going to reach out onLinkedIn and I'm going to send a
personal note.
Maybe I'm going to use eithertools or just go on LinkedIn and
see if that person iscommenting or writing articles.
Maybe I'll comment on it right,just staying in front of that
person.
Another thing you can do is youcan invite them into things.
(13:02):
So if you're hosting like awebinar or some type of event,
you can send them an invitationto that.
I've even seen people, throughnurturing, do other things that
are outside of, like digital,where they'll send out physical
mail pieces right.
So it might be a sample productor it might be a book.
Hey, I know you love hiking.
I was at the bookstore.
I found this book.
I'm going to write a littleinscription and send you a book
(13:24):
about hiking because I thoughtyou might like it.
So nurturing is just about youstaying relevant and in front of
that person, but never selling,just providing value so that
when they are ready to make adecision, hopefully they come to
you versus anybody else.
Janice Hostager (13:40):
And real value, right?
You really want to stay focusedon what they want.
Yes, and not because I thinkthat's where people get a little
nervous, like I don't want tobug them, I don't want to keep
pestering them, because we'veall had those salespeople that
pester us and we just can't getrid of, right?
But I think what you're sayingis so different in that we want
(14:02):
to provide something that willhelp them, that will benefit
them, that is focused on theproblem, the real problem that
they have.
Jason Kramer (14:10):
Yeah, so, for example.
So we just wrote five neweBooks just actually this month,
and one of them is about well,there's two of them so.
One is about we call it theultimate guide to your CRM
research.
So it's helping you know whatquestions to ask, what to look
for when you're looking at demos, understanding you know all
these different nuances tofinding a new CRM.
(14:32):
Another book we wrote is howto amplify this tool you already
have.
So I might send out an email IfI already know somebody has a
CRM and they're like oh, we'renot interested.
I'd be like, hey, John, that'sgreat.
I don't know how things aregoing, but we just wrote this
new ebook.
I thought it might provide somevalue to help.
Now he may never hire me, buthere I am giving him a 15-page
(14:56):
guide for free, I'm not askinganything in return where he
might be able to do differentthings with his CRM that he's
never done before or he didn'teven know it's possible, and so
that's a type of nurturing thatwe try to evoke for ourselves
and for our clients.
Never ask for a meeting, not tosay you're not going to, right?
It's going to be in there.
Of course we're trying to sell,but it shouldn't start with
(15:18):
that.
And I think the other thing, too, that a lot of you talked
before about all these salesypeople out there, and there's a
lot of them.
I'm of the opinion, Janice,where you should really
understand what you think theproblem is that that person has,
right?
Either themselves personally orthe company, and that's what
(15:40):
you should really lead with.
So, for example, if I knowsomebody who's doing CRM
research, I would say somethinglike, I know it's overwhelming,
excuse me, I know there'sliterally gazillions of
different options out there onthe marketplace.
I know that you're unsure aboutcosts and about all these
different things.
Here's some things to look for,here's some questions to ask
when you're talking to othervendors, and so that's me just
saying, hey, I'm just trying tohelp you right, make the right
(16:02):
decisions so you don't sort ofget screwed, you know, and get
locked into something or buysomething that's not really
going to fit your specific needsand goals.
Janice Hostager (16:15):
And that's a great way to personalize it too,
because you know that they are,you know their problem, right,
and you can just really addressit straight up.
What about if you are not, well, let me back up.
How do you get to know whatthat person's problem is?
Let's say you have a list andyou send out a weekly or monthly
newsletter already.
How do you figure out whatspecifically the problem is for
(16:38):
each of those?
How would you personalize acampaign?
Jason Kramer (16:41):
That's a great question.
So sometimes you can't.
But so let's say,hypothetically, you knew nothing
about the person.
You have a list, someone didsomething, right?
There's a couple different waysyou can do it.
So one is if you're capturing,let's say, people on your
website they're signing up foryour newsletter or downloading
something, you can have adropdown field on there what
(17:04):
describes you best, and thedropdown is all the different
problems you help solve andthey're self-identifying what
problem they have.
So that could be a reallysimple way for you to find out
right away, without even talkingto them, what the issue is that
they have.
Janice Hostager (17:17):
Even a link in an email right so you can tell,
like who clicked on which oneand send them to and have them
segment in your email service.
Jason Kramer (17:27):
If you have something more sophisticated,
absolutely that's a way to go.
But everybody listening and Iknow there's all different types
of businesses listening todayand so you know you've been in
business long enough to knowthese are the things I typically
help people with, right, so youdon't know which problem they
have.
But if all the things you'redoing, your communication
mentions the top three, the topfive problems you help with,
(17:49):
they probably have one or moreof those problems.
So that's usually the way Ithat's the safe bet I do is say,
hey, here's the top kind oflike five issues we typically
see.
Do you have any of the?
Which one of these is affectingyou the most?
And that's kind of helps startthe dialogue, to figure out
which one you know, and then youcould follow up by saying well,
I have certain pieces ofinformation I can share with you
(18:10):
once I sort of know, like, whatyour specific issue is.
Janice Hostager (18:17):
Mm love it.
So what, how do we know thatit's working?
So what metrics should a smallbusiness owner track to measure
how effective their leadnurturing efforts are?
Jason Kramer (18:24):
Yeah.
So I mean, it all comes down tothe tools you have.
So you know something like atool we just built called Profit
Path, which is a series ofinterconnected Google Sheets
which we'll talk a little bitmore before we kind of end the
show, but it's designed to bealmost like a precursor to a CRM
, so it's allowing you to keeptrack of all of your contacts,
(18:47):
all the information, how you metthem, where you met them, the
next steps and then theopportunities you have with that
person, right, so we call itthe sales pipeline, but it
sounds a little bit more kind oflike sort of B2B.
But the pipeline is just yourvisual dashboard to where things
are at in the stages.
I had coffee with this person,I have to do a demo with them, I
(19:07):
have to send them a proposal,so it gets track of everything.
And so, to answer your question, the reporting is only going to
be as good as two things (19:16):
the data that you're keeping track
of and the system you're usingto put that data into.
So if you're just writingthings down on paper, it's going
to be virtually impossible tokind of do anything with that,
even if you're putting thingsinto a spreadsheet, if the
spreadsheet isn't designed insuch a way where it could
synthesize all that data, italso becomes kind of impossible.
(19:39):
So what you really need is likea system like the Profit Path
tool or some type of basic CRMthat will make sure it's going
to give you the reporting you'relooking for.
For the things that I look for,I look for not necessarily open
and click rate, because quitehonestly, I think those things
are sort of irrelevant.
Even if I had 60% of the peopleopening up an email, 40% don't,
(20:03):
so what does that really tellme?
And so it's not so much aboutwhat they're doing if they click
through, it's what are theydoing next.
That's what I look for.
So if I send out a newsletter,I'll give you a quick story.
I was consulting with a woman inthe education space.
Um, she's retired, but shebasically helps superintendents
(20:23):
and then people in the schooldistrict.
She summarizes books.
So think of her as like thecliff notes or like a book club
for schools and school districts.
So if teachers are trying todecide what books they should
bring into the classroom, shehelps make recommendations and
you sign up for like her, likeprogram and like newsletter and
all different genres, alldifferent.
You know grades, and so, um,you know, with her, you know we
(20:47):
were trying to, um, figure outhow to, how to do that right,
how to kind of synthesize allthis information, but tracking
the data.
For her, it was about what'simportant that we need to track,
and so the example that I wantto give here is not so much
about her but about me, and thenI'll full come circle on the
(21:08):
story.
So her name is Jen, so I hadn'tspoken to Jen since August.
All right, and I helped her.
She got what she needed out ofworking with us and I send out
newsletters every month andshe's on our list, and I saw
that just this month she openedup our newsletter.
I was like, oh, that's cool.
She clicked the link, went tothe website.
Okay, that's fine.
But then she filled out a formto download a guide on our CRM
(21:30):
comparison guide, which I justmentioned, the research guide
and I was like, well, that'sinteresting.
I wonder why Jen did that.
I wonder if she's looking for anew CRM.
So two days later I called Jenonly because I had that
information and all connectedfor me, and I said, hey, Jen,
what's going on?
We haven't spoken in a while.
And we caught up and I was likeI was curious.
I'm like I see you downloadedthis guide.
What was the sort of thecatalyst to that?
(21:52):
And she's like, oh, I'mactually looking for a new tool
and I thought of you.
And now she may never havecalled me because she'd be like,
ah, you know, I was arelatively maybe a small client
in her eyes to Jason and hiscompany.
I had the guides helpful, I'mjust going to go hire somebody
else.
But because I had thatinformation, I was able to then
capitalize on a potentialadditional engagement with her,
(22:14):
which I wouldn't have been ableto do if I didn't have that.
So you ask about what youshould look for and what's
important.
I think that answer is uniquefor every business, but at the
end of the day, my simple answerwould be it's the information
that's going to help you make ashift in your business, to grow
your business that's the mostimportant thing.
(22:34):
So, like web visits, form fillsthat may be like insignificant
you know, how many contacts doyou have on LinkedIn?
None of that really matters,it's about what's your rate in
terms of growth to get moreclients and more conversations
going.
Janice Hostager (22:51):
Two questions as you're telling that story.
The first thing is that it'sinteresting because her filling
out that form also showed somepurchase intent right, or at
least moving in that, and it'ssort of like keywords in a way
that you can tell by the wordsthat people use to search for
you whether or not they're just,as we would say, top of funnel
or just kind of looking andbrowsing, or whether they're
(23:14):
really serious about purchasingor getting ready to purchase
somewhere in the middle.
The second point I want to make, and so I could always tell,
when people use a CRM likeHubSpot, because they'll follow
up and say hey, I see youvisited my website.
Does that creep you out?
I mean because it kind of did meespecially when this was all
(23:37):
first starting, it was like okay, this seems a little too
voyeuristic for me, I just kindof want to back off, like so.
I think um there you know, likehow do you know where that line
is, like?
Jason Kramer (23:48):
Oh, it's a fine line for sure.
I mean, um, and I would say,yeah, you don't want to be like,
oh, I saw you on my website at2.52 pm.
Looking at this, I mean that'sreally creepy.
But you know the thing that Ithought, this is my thought.
I don't generally tell themthat I saw they were on the
website, like in Jen's case,because I had a relationship
(24:10):
with her, like I was comfortablesaying that.
You know, I've had even peoplesay to me shoot me an email and
say, oh, we're not interested,thank you, take us off your.
They don't say take us off yourlist, but just like we're not
interested.
And then two weeks later theygo and download more content or
they're back on our website.
So that's their way of brushingme off.
I don't reach out to them againand say anything.
(24:32):
I usually wait a little while,see what else they do, and then
I'll reach back out, you know,and be like hey, we haven't
spoken a while, pretending Ididn't know all this was going
on, and be like hey, you know,do you have any questions?
You know, just want to seewhere you're at.
Um, so I think you have to becareful on how you use that.
But what I will say is thatthat information is very
powerful when it comes to thenurturing and the marketing
(24:53):
because, to your point beforeJanice, you can segment all this
information and synthesize itso you can have automated emails
go out to somebody because theywent to a specific page on your
website, because theydownloaded something, because
they did whatever.
Give you a really quick exampleIn most of my sales emails and
(25:13):
just in most of my sales emailsnot really marketing emails
there's usually a link to book acall with me.
It's just, everybody uses it,it's just easy, right, and so I
have it set up where, eventhough that's through Calendly,
I have it set up in my CRM where, if they click that link, my
CRM knows they clicked that linkto go to Calendly, but my CRM
knows whether or not theyactually booked a call and if
(25:34):
they didn't book a call two dayslater, I'll send a very generic
email.
Hey, Janice, I noticed youtried to book a call with me the
other day.
I didn't see it show up in mycalendar.
Not sure if there's a weirdlike text snafu, but if you're
looking for time like, here's mylink.
Again, you know, hopefully wecould talk soon, and so that's
just the system, sort of nudgingthem a little bit, saying like,
hey, I recognize that youclicked it, but I'm not like
(25:55):
outwardly saying like I'mtracking you, you know yeah.
Janice Hostager (26:01):
And that's really a smart way of doing it
too.
Because I think so.
Instead of a funnel, I use whatI call the trail to the sale.
It basically is similar.
It starts from awarenessconsider, compare, evaluate, buy
, supersize, send and serve.
So I think so along thespectrum of the buyer journey.
(26:21):
Basically, what I noticed andthe reason I never really liked
the funnel is that the funnelmakes you feel like people just
kind of fall through it, likeyou start in the top and then
you know, yeah, not everybodywill get all the way to the
bottom, but it just kind ofhappened.
But in reality that is not atall
what happens and that's whywe're having this conversation
today is that you have tonurture them along the trail,
(26:44):
like move them all along to thenext step.
Not that they're not in controltoo because gone are the days
of a lot of push marketing, butyou know the consumer now is in
control, so it's more of thepull.
But people can hop off thetrail and, you know, unsubscribe
for a while and then come backon later on and do this time and
(27:06):
time again.
You know, get close topurchasing but then back off a
little bit.
So it's really interesting tofollow that and I know it
happens because I do it myselfand because I can see that my
clients do it as well.
Like they'll be very interested.
But then, especially forsomeone like me who does
marketing, they may, you know,be focused on marketing for a
(27:27):
season, but then something elseyou know came up in their
business and they got distractedand yada yada.
So I like what you're saying inthat if you can figure out the
path, the journey that yourcustomer is actually taking,
then you can set up a simpleemail automation or a something
(27:50):
you know or some way to triggeryou so they can reach out to
them.
However it is you do business,so that you can keep them moving
along that trail.
Jason Kramer (28:02):
Yeah, and that's what you know I love about the
approach we take is that youknow, you and I know what that
is and kind of how to do thatright, how to set up those
automations, and so you know,even for the listeners, you know
, I would say almost regardlessof the platform I use, you know,
feel free to reach out to meand if you need help, you need
some guidance.
You know, I know there'stutorials and things like out
(28:22):
there, but sometimes you needsomebody to hold your hand or
kind of you have a uniquesituation or your unique idea
that you're not finding aspecific video or guide on how
to execute that.
You know that's what we're herefor is to kind of help people,
you know, kind of break throughthat kind of barrier where
they're like, hey, that soundsgreat, I love what you're
talking about, but I have noidea how to do that.
Right.
(28:42):
So what happens?
They just never do it.
Right.
Because they don't know how todo it.
And so I want to make sure thateverybody feels comfortable, you
know, just in this conversation, to say that we're not just you
know only, we're not just onlytalking to multimillion dollar
companies.
We talk to solopreneurs and alldifferent types of businesses
(29:03):
to help give them advice,because everybody should have
that opportunity to have thatknowledge.
I've always believed educationis like as much as I don't like
to say it but my sales technique, if you will, because whether
or not they want to buy from us,that's up to them.
All I can do is just present tothem how we can provide value.
But I never want to bringanybody on board that I truly
don't think we can help, becauseno one's going to win in that
(29:25):
situation.
Janice Hostager (29:26):
Right, right and I think you alluded to this
that some email software and Ihaven't used MailChimp in quite
a while, but most email softwarehas some sort of an automation
setup.
So if somebody clicks on a link, you can set up an
autoresponder so that they willget information back, but unless
(29:48):
it's a more expensive system,like a HubSpot, for example,
which most people that arestarting out in their business
that's going to be out of theirreach.
It's an expensive platform.
Yeah, so do you have some othertools that you recommend or
some resources that yourecommend for smaller businesses
(30:08):
?
Jason Kramer (30:09):
So I mean, if you're comparing something to
HubSpot, there's a tool thatused to be called Sharp Spring.
We've been using that productfor over a decade.
They actually got bought aboutthree years ago by Constant
Contact, so it's now calledConstant Contact Legion CRM.
We're one of just a handful ofexclusive resellers and partners
(30:30):
, so you couldn't even buy thatproduct directly from Constant
Contact.
You'd have to go through one oftheir partners, like Cultivize.
But that's a product that'sgoing to be less expensive than
HubSpot.
It can do everything thatHubSpot can do, but the benefit
is that HubSpot has the hubs,right.
They have the sales hub, themarketing hub, the content hub,
(30:50):
and so you have to buy all theseindividual tools that are like
almost $1,000 a piece, right, ifyou want to use everything.
And so, yes, it does becomeextremely expensive.
This other tool from ConstantContact and just for clarity of
your customers, it's not thebase Constant Contact email tool
for 50 bucks a month.
It's a tool that's about $1,000a month, but that's a lot less
(31:12):
than the $5,000 a month youwould spend at HubSpot.
But everything's included,right?
So your email marketing, yourCRM, your sales pipeline and
sales tools, you can build awhole lot in there, landing
pages.
I don't want to do technicalstuff, but it's a very powerful
tool.
Another one we like, also forjust email marketing if you
(31:38):
don't need the CRM piece isanother product called Vbout,
the letter V-B-O-U-T that wereally love.
It's kind of closest toprobably like a product called
Klaviyo, which is strictly, orlike Pardot, which is for
Salesforce.
It's strictly an emailmarketing automation piece, but
a pretty sophisticated tool buteasy to use.
And then, lastly, I would saythat you say that this new tool
(31:59):
that we created, which you couldfind more about if you go to
ProfitPathToolcom, is a toolthat we built here for the last
several months and that's theone I mentioned, all built on
interconnected Google Sheets,which I would say is for a price
point of, with the coupon codeI'm going to give to your
listeners here at the end of theshow for $149, one-time access,
(32:20):
one-time fee, rather for theaccess no monthly subscription,
no annual subscription.
You really can't go wrong.
It's like I don't think there'sanything less expensive on the
market.
That's as sophisticated as whatwe built with those
spreadsheets.
Janice Hostager (32:35):
That is cool, and we'll put the links to all
these things in the show notesfor today as well, but I'm going
to check that out as well.
Well, thanks so much, Jason.
I really enjoyed ourconversation today and I
appreciate you coming on.
Jason Kramer (32:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And one last thing you know wetalked about lead nurturing.
We actually just wrote a new.
It's called the Blueprint forLead Nurturing.
So if you go toaftertheleadcom, that's the word
aftertheleadcom, there'sinformation.
In there we can download abunch of eBooks that we've
created here at Cultivize.
There's a link to connect withme on social media.
You can even book and schedulea free consultation with me off
(33:14):
of that page and there's also alink to that Profit Path tool I
mentioned.
So aftertheleadcom is a greatresource for any of the
listeners.
And, lastly, if you use thecoupon code janice all lowercase
, you'll save $50 off of theProfit Path tool.
Janice Hostager (33:30):
That is awesome .
Thank you for doing that for mylisteners.
Jason Kramer (33:32):
My pleasure.
Janice Hostager (33:33):
All right.
Thanks again, Jason, Iappreciate it.
Jason Kramer (33:36):
Thank you.
Janice Hostager (33:38):
So what do you think?
Are you ready to systematizeyour lead nurturing process?
For more information aboutanything we talked about today,
visit myweeklymarketingcom.
Forward slash 94.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you liked our conversation,I'd love to have you follow me
on iTunes or your podcastplatform of choice.
(33:58):
See you next time.
Bye for now.
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
Have you ever met somebody at anetworking event, or maybe a
(00:36):
party, and you were sure thatthey wanted to do business with
you, only to not hear back fromthem after the event?
So what do you do?
Is it best to follow up withthem?
Maybe call them or send them anemail?
If so, how many emails shouldyou send?
How many calls should you make?
We've all probably been there,of course, and it is a challenge
to know what to do or not to doto follow up with a lead.
(00:57):
On this week's episode, JasonKramer is talking to us all
about lead nurturing.
Jason is the CEO of Cultivize,an agency that works exclusively
with businesses to convertleads into loyal customers.
If you're not familiar with theterm lead nurturing, it's
really following up with thelead so that they can get to
know, like and trust you andultimately, of course, do
(01:20):
business with you.
Think of lead nurturing likedating; you wouldn't want to
propose to somebody on the firstdate, so you want to build
trust, to get to know them andshow them you care before making
a big ask.
It's the same way withcustomers.
Instead of pushing a saleimmediately, you, one, want to
stay in touch.
Two, want to give some value.
(01:41):
Three, want to build trust andfour, make that big ask when
they're ready and not before.
So lead nurturing is justbuilding a relationship so that
when they're ready to buy,you're the obvious choice.
Jason's going to share hissecret sauce for, first of all,
setting up a process that willsystematize nurturing but also
(02:04):
give us some hints on how todetermine what to do and what to
say so that that potentialcustomer says yes.
So here's my conversation withJason.
Well, hey, Jason, welcome to MyWeekly Marketing.
Jason Kramer (02:18):
Thanks, Janice.
Thank you for having me.
Janice Hostager (02:21):
So let's start out talking a little bit about
you.
So tell us, now we're talkingall about lead nurturing today,
but tell us how you got into it.
It's so specific that I'mfascinated about your story.
Like, tell us how you got tothis point.
Jason Kramer (02:39):
Sure, I just loved kind of just working with
people and the idea of helpingpeople kind of spread
information, if you will.
So I started as a graphicdesigner working for agencies in
Manhattan and actually got intofreelancing a lot and decided
just a few years out of collegeand this is back in the early
2000s, just to date myself, Istarted my own company.
(03:00):
So I started a boutique webdevelopment and graphic design
agency, ran that for 16 yearsand over the course of that time
more towards the end of thatbusiness before I sold it, I
didn't do a lot of inboundmarketing for clients.
But when I talked to them abouttheir inbound marketing, they
never really had a way to trackall of their efforts.
So they were going to tradeshows, they were doing webinars,
(03:23):
they were doing networking,they were spending money on, you
know, Facebook or Google,whatever they were doing, and I
was always like, hey, how's thatworking for you?
And they never really couldtell me.
All they could tell me is oh, Imeet a lot of people or, you
know, I get it, I get.
You know, some hits my websiteor people thing on a form really
connect the dots, you know.
Nor were they actually doinganything to nurture
(03:45):
relationships, right?
So you have a great conversationwith somebody and if there's
not a alignment for them to buyfrom you or for something to
happen, if you're not constantlyin front of them, they could
forget about you.
Right, when they're ready to buy, they can buy from your
competitor because you're out ofthe picture.
They forgot about you, and so Igot really fascinated with that
(04:05):
and because I was already doinga lot of email marketing
through the agency I own for ourclients, I stumbled across
something relatively new andthis is going back into, I'd say
, probably in like 2015 or so,maybe a little earlier marketing
automation.
Marketing automation was juststarting at that point give or
take, and marketing automationis a way to stay in front of
(04:28):
people, to nurture people, to.
It's not just sending out amonthly newsletter, which is
part of it, but it's about doingother things, which we'll talk
about today, and so that's whatled me to this, to the idea of
how can we help people that areputting all this effort to
generate leads, but how do weget them to close more higher
percentage of those leads, andthat's what Cultivize is all
(04:49):
about.
Janice Hostager (04:50):
I love that because there are so many times
where I've talked to clients orpeople and they'll say, yeah, I,
you know, I talked to somebodyat, like you said, a conference
and they were super interested,but then they didn't, they
didn't call me, they didn'tfollow up with it.
And I would say, well, did youreach out to them?
And it's like, yeah, theydidn't return my email, you know
, and then it just sort of dropsand, as you know, everybody's
(05:12):
busy and you know we all meet alot of people, especially if
we're out and about at a tradeshow or an event or something
like that, and we really do needto continue that relationship
if it's going to grow.
Yeah, so, what about yourjourney?
Has been different than youexpected,
When you're working with, liketrying to teach people how to
(05:35):
nurture leads, so to speak.
Jason Kramer (05:37):
The thing that was an eye-opener for me was that
companies of all sizes whetherthey were a solopreneur, they
were a larger company, sevenfigures, they didn't have a
defined sales process that theywere following.
So they would get a lead, butthey didn't methodically go
about that lead the exact sameway every single time.
So, for example, if they hadnothing to do for a day because
(06:01):
they weren't that busy in anafternoon, they would send out a
bunch of emails or they'd belike oh, I spoke to Janice two
weeks ago, let me call her andfollow up, but it wasn't.
It was inconsistent, right, itwas because, like, it was just a
spur of the moment thought, andso to me that was really
shocking, especially fororganizations that had been
around for you know, a few years, that had a decent amount of
revenue coming in.
(06:21):
I'm like how do you not have aconsistent sales process?
How is that even possible?
And then, because they didn'thave that, they didn't have a
way to measure anything, and sothat, to me, was like a huge
eye-opener.
Where and the reason for thatyou don't know how to fix
something if you don't know it'sbroken is the first part.
So you're kind of stuck in yourmomentum and your behaviors.
(06:44):
It's like I always use theexample of, like working out at
the gym right, so you could beworking out at the gym for years
, going three days a week, butif you're doing the bench press
wrong or if you're doing theexercise wrong, then it's not
really giving you the resultsthat it could be giving you,
until a trainer comes along andsay, hey, J ason, like you
really shouldn't be arching yourback, you know, when you're
lifting those weights, becausethis is why it's hurting you,
(07:07):
right, and this is the benefit.
And so when you don't havethese processes, you are sort of
shooting from the hip right andyou're kind of going with your
instincts, and the reasonthey're not changing is they
don't know how to change.
They may want to change, butthey need the guidance.
And that's what I really loveabout working with our clients
is we, as much as we're a teamof consultants to help with CRM.
(07:30):
A lot of people would call uslike a coach or a mentor,
because we're really helpingthem reach, sort of train, their
thought process about how theybuild relationships with their
potential customers and thetools they can use, especially
in the modern era we live in ofall these things that are out
there and there's actually toomany tools out there, quite
honestly.
So it's like understanding whattools you can use that could be
(07:53):
most effective for you and foryour business.
Janice Hostager (07:57):
That's a good point, because the thing is that
oftentimes, even if we dounderstand that full customer
journey, sometimes we just don'thave a way to measure it.
I mean we just we can't connectthe dots right.
So if we know that people aremaybe opening our emails, but
some, we know that some peoplebought, but we don't know
exactly who that opened theemail actually bought and so on,
(08:21):
so we don't, we're not alwaysable to make that connection.
So I love that that you'reworking on that.
I also really like the factthat you are looking at one of
the things I tell clients allthe time and I think Amy
Porterfield or somebody elsecoined this phrase the money is
in the list, and growing andnurturing that email list is so
(08:43):
important even before, rightaway when you're starting your
business, even before you evenget really established.
If you can have a list goingin, not a purchase list, but a
list of people that are alreadyinterested that you can set up
those automations for, that canmake a huge difference down the
(09:03):
road, right?
Jason Kramer (09:05):
Absolutely.
So, My wife always jokes withme that I have sometimes really
terrible analogies, but here'sone more.
So, picture a car dealershipokay, and there's nobody in the
car dealership.
The doors are open, butnobody's there working, and you
come in on a Saturday morning.
You're looking for a car andyou start looking around.
Maybe you get in the front seator the driver's seat and you're
(09:28):
like I really like this car,but there's no one there to help
you, so you leave, right?
Now.
.
.
You may not be wanting to buy acar that day, but if you were
interacting with somebody, asalesperson maybe they could
have given you information,maybe they could have helped
work out a payment plan.
They could have all been donethese different things to help
potentially make that sale or atleast set up the sale for a
(09:48):
future date.
And so the reason of thatanalogy is important.
Email marketing is the mostinexpensive thing you can do,
sending out a monthly newsletter.
Whether you're using aMailChimp, whatever you're
using, right, it could bespending less than $50 a month.
The challenge with those toolsis that you don't know who's
actually engaging.
You might say, okay, thisperson clicked, this person
(10:10):
opened up my email, but whathappens if that person comes
back a week later to yourwebsite and starts spending 15
minutes on your website, right?
Or they come back three moretimes over the course of the
next month.
Your CRM system can tell youthat that person is going to be
highly engaged, and so therefore, it's kind of the scenario like
(10:30):
of the car dealership.
Now you know that, oh, John isactually coming back to my
website a lot.
Maybe John's interested.
Maybe I should call John,because you and I both know,
Janice, that every salestransaction that happens, it's
not always the buyer that'sknocking on your door and saying
please take my money, I want towork with you.
Sometimes you have to be moreproactive, and of course,
(10:55):
there's a comfort level tohaving the skill set and ability
to be forward and outbound.
But if you had that informationnow you're talking to people
that are raising their hand,that are showing signals that
they might want to buy from you,and so that's why this
information is so critical.
And when people tell me, ohyeah, I'm doing a newsletter and
(11:17):
they tell me they're justsending it out through a
MailChimp, I said that's a goodstart.
I said, but you're reallylosing so much value.
You're putting all this effortto sending out a newsletter and
it's really doing a disserviceto you because you don't know
anything happening after theyget the newsletter.
Janice Hostager (11:46):
Great point.
I'm a listener and I realizethat I want to start a process
or some kind of system so that Ican follow up.
I can send out emails, I canfollow up with all of this.
So what are the essentialelements or the strategies that
I should be looking at withregards to
lead nurturing?
Jason Kramer (11:56):
So, lead nurturing as a just a kind of definition,
it is what it sounds like,right?
So it's a process, a sequenceof events to stay in front of
that person.
Now it's not saying hey, Janice, will you buy from me?
Can you book a meeting?
When are you ready to buy?
When are you ready to buy?
It's about education, it's aboutbeing informative, and so, even
(12:18):
if you don't have a CRM andyou're listening today and you
don't do anything, all yournotes are on a pen and paper.
That's okay, right?
I mean, it's not okay.
We're going to get you pastthat point, but it's okay in the
sense of the conversation today.
And so, some of the things youcould be doing are creating a
set of what we call cadences.
Say, okay, every three weeks,every month, whatever it's going
(12:39):
to be, I'm going to make aphone call to this person.
I'm going to put on my calendarreminder to reach out to this
person, or an outlook, whateveryou're using.
I'm also going to reach out onLinkedIn and I'm going to send a
personal note.
Maybe I'm going to use eithertools or just go on LinkedIn and
see if that person iscommenting or writing articles.
Maybe I'll comment on it right,just staying in front of that
person.
Another thing you can do is youcan invite them into things.
(13:02):
So if you're hosting like awebinar or some type of event,
you can send them an invitationto that.
I've even seen people, throughnurturing, do other things that
are outside of, like digital,where they'll send out physical
mail pieces right.
So it might be a sample productor it might be a book.
Hey, I know you love hiking.
I was at the bookstore.
I found this book.
I'm going to write a littleinscription and send you a book
(13:24):
about hiking because I thoughtyou might like it.
So nurturing is just about youstaying relevant and in front of
that person, but never selling,just providing value so that
when they are ready to make adecision, hopefully they come to
you versus anybody else.
Janice Hostager (13:40):
And real value, right?
You really want to stay focusedon what they want.
Yes, and not because I thinkthat's where people get a little
nervous, like I don't want tobug them, I don't want to keep
pestering them, because we'veall had those salespeople that
pester us and we just can't getrid of, right?
But I think what you're sayingis so different in that we want
(14:02):
to provide something that willhelp them, that will benefit
them, that is focused on theproblem, the real problem that
they have.
Jason Kramer (14:10):
Yeah, so, for example.
So we just wrote five neweBooks just actually this month,
and one of them is about well,there's two of them so.
One is about we call it theultimate guide to your CRM
research.
So it's helping you know whatquestions to ask, what to look
for when you're looking at demos, understanding you know all
these different nuances tofinding a new CRM.
(14:32):
Another book we wrote is howto amplify this tool you already
have.
So I might send out an email IfI already know somebody has a
CRM and they're like oh, we'renot interested.
I'd be like, hey, John, that'sgreat.
I don't know how things aregoing, but we just wrote this
new ebook.
I thought it might provide somevalue to help.
Now he may never hire me, buthere I am giving him a 15-page
(14:56):
guide for free, I'm not askinganything in return where he
might be able to do differentthings with his CRM that he's
never done before or he didn'teven know it's possible, and so
that's a type of nurturing thatwe try to evoke for ourselves
and for our clients.
Never ask for a meeting, not tosay you're not going to, right?
It's going to be in there.
Of course we're trying to sell,but it shouldn't start with
(15:18):
that.
And I think the other thing, too, that a lot of you talked
before about all these salesypeople out there, and there's a
lot of them.
I'm of the opinion, Janice,where you should really
understand what you think theproblem is that that person has,
right?
Either themselves personally orthe company, and that's what
(15:40):
you should really lead with.
So, for example, if I knowsomebody who's doing CRM
research, I would say somethinglike, I know it's overwhelming,
excuse me, I know there'sliterally gazillions of
different options out there onthe marketplace.
I know that you're unsure aboutcosts and about all these
different things.
Here's some things to look for,here's some questions to ask
when you're talking to othervendors, and so that's me just
saying, hey, I'm just trying tohelp you right, make the right
(16:02):
decisions so you don't sort ofget screwed, you know, and get
locked into something or buysomething that's not really
going to fit your specific needsand goals.
Janice Hostager (16:15):
And that's a great way to personalize it too,
because you know that they are,you know their problem, right,
and you can just really addressit straight up.
What about if you are not, well, let me back up.
How do you get to know whatthat person's problem is?
Let's say you have a list andyou send out a weekly or monthly
newsletter already.
How do you figure out whatspecifically the problem is for
(16:38):
each of those?
How would you personalize acampaign?
Jason Kramer (16:41):
That's a great question.
So sometimes you can't.
But so let's say,hypothetically, you knew nothing
about the person.
You have a list, someone didsomething, right?
There's a couple different waysyou can do it.
So one is if you're capturing,let's say, people on your
website they're signing up foryour newsletter or downloading
something, you can have adropdown field on there what
(17:04):
describes you best, and thedropdown is all the different
problems you help solve andthey're self-identifying what
problem they have.
So that could be a reallysimple way for you to find out
right away, without even talkingto them, what the issue is that
they have.
Janice Hostager (17:17):
Even a link in an email right so you can tell,
like who clicked on which oneand send them to and have them
segment in your email service.
Jason Kramer (17:27):
If you have something more sophisticated,
absolutely that's a way to go.
But everybody listening and Iknow there's all different types
of businesses listening todayand so you know you've been in
business long enough to knowthese are the things I typically
help people with, right, so youdon't know which problem they
have.
But if all the things you'redoing, your communication
mentions the top three, the topfive problems you help with,
(17:49):
they probably have one or moreof those problems.
So that's usually the way Ithat's the safe bet I do is say,
hey, here's the top kind oflike five issues we typically
see.
Do you have any of the?
Which one of these is affectingyou the most?
And that's kind of helps startthe dialogue, to figure out
which one you know, and then youcould follow up by saying well,
I have certain pieces ofinformation I can share with you
(18:10):
once I sort of know, like, whatyour specific issue is.
Janice Hostager (18:17):
Mm love it.
So what, how do we know thatit's working?
So what metrics should a smallbusiness owner track to measure
how effective their leadnurturing efforts are?
Jason Kramer (18:24):
Yeah.
So I mean, it all comes down tothe tools you have.
So you know something like atool we just built called Profit
Path, which is a series ofinterconnected Google Sheets
which we'll talk a little bitmore before we kind of end the
show, but it's designed to bealmost like a precursor to a CRM
, so it's allowing you to keeptrack of all of your contacts,
(18:47):
all the information, how you metthem, where you met them, the
next steps and then theopportunities you have with that
person, right, so we call itthe sales pipeline, but it
sounds a little bit more kind oflike sort of B2B.
But the pipeline is just yourvisual dashboard to where things
are at in the stages.
I had coffee with this person,I have to do a demo with them, I
(19:07):
have to send them a proposal,so it gets track of everything.
And so, to answer your question, the reporting is only going to
be as good as two things (19:16):
the data that you're keeping track
of and the system you're usingto put that data into.
So if you're just writingthings down on paper, it's going
to be virtually impossible tokind of do anything with that,
even if you're putting thingsinto a spreadsheet, if the
spreadsheet isn't designed insuch a way where it could
synthesize all that data, italso becomes kind of impossible.
(19:39):
So what you really need is likea system like the Profit Path
tool or some type of basic CRMthat will make sure it's going
to give you the reporting you'relooking for.
For the things that I look for,I look for not necessarily open
and click rate, because quitehonestly, I think those things
are sort of irrelevant.
Even if I had 60% of the peopleopening up an email, 40% don't,
(20:03):
so what does that really tellme?
And so it's not so much aboutwhat they're doing if they click
through, it's what are theydoing next.
That's what I look for.
So if I send out a newsletter,I'll give you a quick story.
I was consulting with a woman inthe education space.
Um, she's retired, but shebasically helps superintendents
(20:23):
and then people in the schooldistrict.
She summarizes books.
So think of her as like thecliff notes or like a book club
for schools and school districts.
So if teachers are trying todecide what books they should
bring into the classroom, shehelps make recommendations and
you sign up for like her, likeprogram and like newsletter and
all different genres, alldifferent.
You know grades, and so, um,you know, with her, you know we
(20:47):
were trying to, um, figure outhow to, how to do that right,
how to kind of synthesize allthis information, but tracking
the data.
For her, it was about what'simportant that we need to track,
and so the example that I wantto give here is not so much
about her but about me, and thenI'll full come circle on the
(21:08):
story.
So her name is Jen, so I hadn'tspoken to Jen since August.
All right, and I helped her.
She got what she needed out ofworking with us and I send out
newsletters every month andshe's on our list, and I saw
that just this month she openedup our newsletter.
I was like, oh, that's cool.
She clicked the link, went tothe website.
Okay, that's fine.
But then she filled out a formto download a guide on our CRM
(21:30):
comparison guide, which I justmentioned, the research guide
and I was like, well, that'sinteresting.
I wonder why Jen did that.
I wonder if she's looking for anew CRM.
So two days later I called Jenonly because I had that
information and all connectedfor me, and I said, hey, Jen,
what's going on?
We haven't spoken in a while.
And we caught up and I was likeI was curious.
I'm like I see you downloadedthis guide.
What was the sort of thecatalyst to that?
(21:52):
And she's like, oh, I'mactually looking for a new tool
and I thought of you.
And now she may never havecalled me because she'd be like,
ah, you know, I was arelatively maybe a small client
in her eyes to Jason and hiscompany.
I had the guides helpful, I'mjust going to go hire somebody
else.
But because I had thatinformation, I was able to then
capitalize on a potentialadditional engagement with her,
(22:14):
which I wouldn't have been ableto do if I didn't have that.
So you ask about what youshould look for and what's
important.
I think that answer is uniquefor every business, but at the
end of the day, my simple answerwould be it's the information
that's going to help you make ashift in your business, to grow
your business that's the mostimportant thing.
(22:34):
So, like web visits, form fillsthat may be like insignificant
you know, how many contacts doyou have on LinkedIn?
None of that really matters,it's about what's your rate in
terms of growth to get moreclients and more conversations
going.
Janice Hostager (22:51):
Two questions as you're telling that story.
The first thing is that it'sinteresting because her filling
out that form also showed somepurchase intent right, or at
least moving in that, and it'ssort of like keywords in a way
that you can tell by the wordsthat people use to search for
you whether or not they're just,as we would say, top of funnel
or just kind of looking andbrowsing, or whether they're
(23:14):
really serious about purchasingor getting ready to purchase
somewhere in the middle.
The second point I want to make, and so I could always tell,
when people use a CRM likeHubSpot, because they'll follow
up and say hey, I see youvisited my website.
Does that creep you out?
I mean because it kind of did meespecially when this was all
(23:37):
first starting, it was like okay, this seems a little too
voyeuristic for me, I just kindof want to back off, like so.
I think um there you know, likehow do you know where that line
is, like?
Jason Kramer (23:48):
Oh, it's a fine line for sure.
I mean, um, and I would say,yeah, you don't want to be like,
oh, I saw you on my website at2.52 pm.
Looking at this, I mean that'sreally creepy.
But you know the thing that Ithought, this is my thought.
I don't generally tell themthat I saw they were on the
website, like in Jen's case,because I had a relationship
(24:10):
with her, like I was comfortablesaying that.
You know, I've had even peoplesay to me shoot me an email and
say, oh, we're not interested,thank you, take us off your.
They don't say take us off yourlist, but just like we're not
interested.
And then two weeks later theygo and download more content or
they're back on our website.
So that's their way of brushingme off.
I don't reach out to them againand say anything.
(24:32):
I usually wait a little while,see what else they do, and then
I'll reach back out, you know,and be like hey, we haven't
spoken a while, pretending Ididn't know all this was going
on, and be like hey, you know,do you have any questions?
You know, just want to seewhere you're at.
Um, so I think you have to becareful on how you use that.
But what I will say is thatthat information is very
powerful when it comes to thenurturing and the marketing
(24:53):
because, to your point beforeJanice, you can segment all this
information and synthesize itso you can have automated emails
go out to somebody because theywent to a specific page on your
website, because theydownloaded something, because
they did whatever.
Give you a really quick exampleIn most of my sales emails and
(25:13):
just in most of my sales emailsnot really marketing emails
there's usually a link to book acall with me.
It's just, everybody uses it,it's just easy, right, and so I
have it set up where, eventhough that's through Calendly,
I have it set up in my CRM where, if they click that link, my
CRM knows they clicked that linkto go to Calendly, but my CRM
knows whether or not theyactually booked a call and if
(25:34):
they didn't book a call two dayslater, I'll send a very generic
email.
Hey, Janice, I noticed youtried to book a call with me the
other day.
I didn't see it show up in mycalendar.
Not sure if there's a weirdlike text snafu, but if you're
looking for time like, here's mylink.
Again, you know, hopefully wecould talk soon, and so that's
just the system, sort of nudgingthem a little bit, saying like,
hey, I recognize that youclicked it, but I'm not like
(25:55):
outwardly saying like I'mtracking you, you know yeah.
Janice Hostager (26:01):
And that's really a smart way of doing it
too.
Because I think so.
Instead of a funnel, I use whatI call the trail to the sale.
It basically is similar.
It starts from awarenessconsider, compare, evaluate, buy
, supersize, send and serve.
So I think so along thespectrum of the buyer journey.
(26:21):
Basically, what I noticed andthe reason I never really liked
the funnel is that the funnelmakes you feel like people just
kind of fall through it, likeyou start in the top and then
you know, yeah, not everybodywill get all the way to the
bottom, but it just kind ofhappened.
But in reality that is not atall
what happens and that's whywe're having this conversation
today is that you have tonurture them along the trail,
(26:44):
like move them all along to thenext step.
Not that they're not in controltoo because gone are the days
of a lot of push marketing, butyou know the consumer now is in
control, so it's more of thepull.
But people can hop off thetrail and, you know, unsubscribe
for a while and then come backon later on and do this time and
(27:06):
time again.
You know, get close topurchasing but then back off a
little bit.
So it's really interesting tofollow that and I know it
happens because I do it myselfand because I can see that my
clients do it as well.
Like they'll be very interested.
But then, especially forsomeone like me who does
marketing, they may, you know,be focused on marketing for a
(27:27):
season, but then something elseyou know came up in their
business and they got distractedand yada yada.
So I like what you're saying inthat if you can figure out the
path, the journey that yourcustomer is actually taking,
then you can set up a simpleemail automation or a something
(27:50):
you know or some way to triggeryou so they can reach out to
them.
However it is you do business,so that you can keep them moving
along that trail.
Jason Kramer (28:02):
Yeah, and that's what you know I love about the
approach we take is that youknow, you and I know what that
is and kind of how to do thatright, how to set up those
automations, and so you know,even for the listeners, you know
, I would say almost regardlessof the platform I use, you know,
feel free to reach out to meand if you need help, you need
some guidance.
You know, I know there'stutorials and things like out
(28:22):
there, but sometimes you needsomebody to hold your hand or
kind of you have a uniquesituation or your unique idea
that you're not finding aspecific video or guide on how
to execute that.
You know that's what we're herefor is to kind of help people,
you know, kind of break throughthat kind of barrier where
they're like, hey, that soundsgreat, I love what you're
talking about, but I have noidea how to do that.
Right.
(28:42):
So what happens?
They just never do it.
Right.
Because they don't know how todo it.
And so I want to make sure thateverybody feels comfortable, you
know, just in this conversation, to say that we're not just you
know only, we're not just onlytalking to multimillion dollar
companies.
We talk to solopreneurs and alldifferent types of businesses
(29:03):
to help give them advice,because everybody should have
that opportunity to have thatknowledge.
I've always believed educationis like as much as I don't like
to say it but my sales technique, if you will, because whether
or not they want to buy from us,that's up to them.
All I can do is just present tothem how we can provide value.
But I never want to bringanybody on board that I truly
don't think we can help, becauseno one's going to win in that
(29:25):
situation.
Janice Hostager (29:26):
Right, right and I think you alluded to this
that some email software and Ihaven't used MailChimp in quite
a while, but most email softwarehas some sort of an automation
setup.
So if somebody clicks on a link, you can set up an
autoresponder so that they willget information back, but unless
(29:48):
it's a more expensive system,like a HubSpot, for example,
which most people that arestarting out in their business
that's going to be out of theirreach.
It's an expensive platform.
Yeah, so do you have some othertools that you recommend or
some resources that yourecommend for smaller businesses
(30:08):
?
Jason Kramer (30:09):
So I mean, if you're comparing something to
HubSpot, there's a tool thatused to be called Sharp Spring.
We've been using that productfor over a decade.
They actually got bought aboutthree years ago by Constant
Contact, so it's now calledConstant Contact Legion CRM.
We're one of just a handful ofexclusive resellers and partners
(30:30):
, so you couldn't even buy thatproduct directly from Constant
Contact.
You'd have to go through one oftheir partners, like Cultivize.
But that's a product that'sgoing to be less expensive than
HubSpot.
It can do everything thatHubSpot can do, but the benefit
is that HubSpot has the hubs,right.
They have the sales hub, themarketing hub, the content hub,
(30:50):
and so you have to buy all theseindividual tools that are like
almost $1,000 a piece, right, ifyou want to use everything.
And so, yes, it does becomeextremely expensive.
This other tool from ConstantContact and just for clarity of
your customers, it's not thebase Constant Contact email tool
for 50 bucks a month.
It's a tool that's about $1,000a month, but that's a lot less
(31:12):
than the $5,000 a month youwould spend at HubSpot.
But everything's included,right?
So your email marketing, yourCRM, your sales pipeline and
sales tools, you can build awhole lot in there, landing
pages.
I don't want to do technicalstuff, but it's a very powerful
tool.
Another one we like, also forjust email marketing if you
(31:38):
don't need the CRM piece isanother product called Vbout,
the letter V-B-O-U-T that wereally love.
It's kind of closest toprobably like a product called
Klaviyo, which is strictly, orlike Pardot, which is for
Salesforce.
It's strictly an emailmarketing automation piece, but
a pretty sophisticated tool buteasy to use.
And then, lastly, I would saythat you say that this new tool
(31:59):
that we created, which you couldfind more about if you go to
ProfitPathToolcom, is a toolthat we built here for the last
several months and that's theone I mentioned, all built on
interconnected Google Sheets,which I would say is for a price
point of, with the coupon codeI'm going to give to your
listeners here at the end of theshow for $149, one-time access,
(32:20):
one-time fee, rather for theaccess no monthly subscription,
no annual subscription.
You really can't go wrong.
It's like I don't think there'sanything less expensive on the
market.
That's as sophisticated as whatwe built with those
spreadsheets.
Janice Hostager (32:35):
That is cool, and we'll put the links to all
these things in the show notesfor today as well, but I'm going
to check that out as well.
Well, thanks so much, Jason.
I really enjoyed ourconversation today and I
appreciate you coming on.
Jason Kramer (32:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And one last thing you know wetalked about lead nurturing.
We actually just wrote a new.
It's called the Blueprint forLead Nurturing.
So if you go toaftertheleadcom, that's the word
aftertheleadcom, there'sinformation.
In there we can download abunch of eBooks that we've
created here at Cultivize.
There's a link to connect withme on social media.
You can even book and schedulea free consultation with me off
(33:14):
of that page and there's also alink to that Profit Path tool I
mentioned.
So aftertheleadcom is a greatresource for any of the
listeners.
And, lastly, if you use thecoupon code janice all lowercase
, you'll save $50 off of theProfit Path tool.
Janice Hostager (33:30):
That is awesome .
Thank you for doing that for mylisteners.
Jason Kramer (33:32):
My pleasure.
Janice Hostager (33:33):
All right.
Thanks again, Jason, Iappreciate it.
Jason Kramer (33:36):
Thank you.
Janice Hostager (33:38):
So what do you think?
Are you ready to systematizeyour lead nurturing process?
For more information aboutanything we talked about today,
visit myweeklymarketingcom.
Forward slash 94.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you liked our conversation,I'd love to have you follow me
on iTunes or your podcastplatform of choice.
(33:58):
See you next time.
Bye for now.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.