March 10, 2025 • 31 mins
Marketing isn’t just about creativity; it’s about having the right systems in place. In this episode, Austin LaRoche, CEO of ATAK Interactive, shares his journey from intern to agency leader and the lessons he’s learned along the way. He explains why structured marketing strategies matter, how B2B and B2C marketing differ, and why customer segmentation is key to reaching the right audience.
We also discuss the balance between creativity and clarity in advertising, the power of personal stories in shaping marketing strategies, and how businesses can craft messages that truly connect. If you're struggling with consistency or wondering how to refine your approach, this episode will help you focus on what works.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Janice Hostager (00:04):
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
(00:29):
Hey, hey, today we're taking adeep dive into strategic
marketing with Austin LaRoche,CEO of ATAK Interactive, a
marketing agency from California.
We're talking all about whathe's learned working with global
businesses that can help you,the small business owner.
We'll cover where to focus yourefforts, how to invest your
time wisely and how to set upsystems that get results.
(00:52):
We're also going to hearAustin's story about how he went
from intern to CEO literallyovernight and what it's like for
him currently to run a businessin the midst of a crisis.
So let's jump right in to mytalk with Austin.
Hey, Austin, welcome to MyWeekly Marketing.
Austin LaRoche (01:10):
Hey, thanks for having me, Janice.
Janice Hostager (01:13):
So I geek out on marketing strategy, which I
think that makes sense, sincethat's what I do for a living.
I think it's the missing pieceto an otherwise siloed industry.
But before we get into that, Iwant to hear your story.
Like how did you arrive atrunning an ad agency and doing
all the things that you do?
Austin LaRoche (01:34):
I almost describe my journey as being a
pain in the butt entrepreneur.
And that I wasn't good atworking for other people.
I went and I got a graduatedegree in communications.
I got an internship in socialmedia in 2008, when social media
(01:55):
was starting up, and then Iparlayed that into an internship
within SEO all within theTribune company, the media
company and I decided afterthose two internships I was
ready to start an agency.
And so a lot of growing pains.
(02:17):
I wish I had been more takenmore of an apprentice approach
and really learned from peoplewho knew what they were doing
for a longer period of time.
But I always wanted to work formyself, and so I actually
started a little bit more on thesocial media and B2C side with
my agency.
I started it in the New Orleansarea in 2009 and got some local
(02:40):
franchise chains across bedding, coffee, restaurants and I just
kind of doing social media andcontent marketing for them.
And I brought my agency out toCalifornia in 2011.
(03:00):
And I started doing a littlebit of work on the side with
some startups and I quicklyrealized again that you know,
anytime, like when, I could bethe one who said, hey, here's
what we need to do, and then wewould do it.
I was happy when I was workingwith people and I would and I
(03:22):
had to kind of, you know, take abackseat and just be you know
just be part of somebody else'svision.
It was much harder for me andthat's not something I think is
good.
I'm not recommending that toanybody, I'm just saying that's
how I got where I was, and so Imerged that company with ATAK
(03:43):
Interactive, a web developmentcompany, in 2014, and a lot of
things came to fruition.
It was almost like the bump Ineeded to go from solopreneur to
really being able to helpclients solve really big
problems.
What ATAK gave me that I didn'thave before was structure.
(04:03):
I am not naturally verystructured.
I'm creative.
I like being able to run withan idea and just go with it.
But to get the best out of me, Irecognized, as I was partnering
on some projects with ATAKInteractive, when I was in that
structure I was able to reallyflourish, and so that happened
in 2014.
(04:23):
And a lot of, back then, peoplewould always talk about hat
clients do you want?
And back then it would just belike, the people who would pay
me.
And so, there was a lot oflearning but we realized is that
we had a really good knack forB2B marketing and it felt like
we were able to talk to otherbusiness leaders about how to
(04:47):
market to other businesses morethan mass adoption on the B2C
side.
And so we evolved into a B2Bmarketing agency and really
started honing in on softwarelike HubSpot and Salesforce
towards the end of the 2010s andreally started recognizing, as
(05:09):
we were growing our business,that marketing was happening
well beyond your traditionalmarketing operations teams and
really a lot on your salesoperations side, your customer
success side.
And so we've been trying tounify marketing and sales teams
together through technology forabout the past four or five
(05:32):
years and we're going to breakdown that silo for every one of
our clients or we're going todie trying, and that's kind of
where we are today.
Janice Hostager (05:42):
I really love that you said that, because one
of the things that I have aframework, I call it the Trail
to the Sale.
But so much of that when I workwith clients and even in my own
business, you have to recognizethat, like you said, the sale,
the marketing takes place theentire length of the journey.
(06:04):
Well beyond the point in whichthe customer lays down their
credit card.
It's even beyond that in termsof how you're serving your
customer, how you're interactingwith them after the sale.
You know, because that lifetimevalue of that customer is so
important.
And I think you're right.
I think a lot of smallbusinesses are so focused on
(06:25):
getting anybody.
Like who do you serve?
Anybody?
You know at first, when you'refirst starting out, it has to be
that way sometimes you know youjust need to make bills or make
money, so you pay the bills.
But I love your story because Ilove that you had enough
courage to go from an internshipto an agency owner, because
that shows that you have somereal vision and that you knew
(06:51):
what you wanted.
So that's a good thing.
So I'm sure there's a lot oflessons that you've learned in
that.
But what's one thing that youreally wish you knew about
marketing, and maybe you touchedon it already, about the
systems.
But that would be helpful forsomebody who is just in those
early days and they're startingout and they're overwhelmed with
marketing and like where do youstart with a strategy?
Austin LaRoche (07:14):
I think the thing that marketing is so
different now than it was evenwhen I started, and back then a
lot of it was about trying tofind that creative genius inside
of you to create that messagethat you put out to all of your
customers that would resonatewith all of them.
(07:35):
And that's just not how thingswork anymore, because now
everybody has different customersegmentation right, they're
different customer segments,right.
We've got different valuepropositions and so we now have
all of these different methodsto be able to diversify all of
our messaging and so it's nolonger the brand telling the
(07:57):
customer like this is what it isabout us that hopefully
resonates.
It's putting out a lot ofdifferent messages and, based
off the data, recognizing whatthe customer is telling you that
resonates with them.
And that is a major differenceand it's really hard to get past
.
(08:17):
I remember probably like six orseven years ago, I was a
creative writing major, so I wassitting there with my ad copy
guy and we're just doing basicGoogle ads for our agency and
I've got all these like coolcopy that makes it sound awesome
and fun and I'm just wonderingweek after week why nothing is
(08:38):
converting.
He's sitting there going hey,man, all these other guys are
just being really simple andthey're just saying this is what
we do.
Click on us.
I'm like that's so lame.
I don't want to be that.
I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to be that.
This is lame.
But you know, I'll appease you,we'll let you be tested.
And then, all of a sudden, theleads started coming and so that
ego had to go down andrecognize that maybe we're not
(09:03):
in, Marketing isn't necessarilyas much of oh my gosh, I'm a
creative genius.
It's not like Mad Men anymore,where a small sample size gets
to really blow the socks off offour clients who come to your
high rise office in New YorkCity.
Come to your high-rise officein New York City.
It's sending out, you know,dozens, if not hundreds, of
different messages to differentcustomers and really seeing
(09:24):
what's resonating with them andthen being able to use that data
to hone in on messages that younow know your customers are
interested in.
Janice Hostager (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that
up because I think one of thethings that I you know, I came
when I graduated from collegeand grad school it was very much
.
Things were just starting tomove, everything was online.
So it was like right at thecusp, where everything was going
online and the internet was upand running for an ad agency, so
(10:00):
we just did ads and so youdidn't have it was all push
marketing, so you didn't havethis feedback loop like you do
now with social media andinternet and all of that, and it
really changed the wholeindustry and put it on its ear.
But I love what you said aboutbeing creative, because I can
remember sitting in offices and,like you know, with as I was an
art director at that point andwith a creative writer or a
copywriter, and you know,throwing pencils at the ceiling
(10:22):
and trying to figure outsomething that would be fun and
creative and catch somebody'sattention, our ideal customer's
attention.
But now I think you'reabsolutely right.
You know and I tell clientsthis all the time too it's just
clear wins the day.
There's a place for creativity,for sure, but if you're being
(10:43):
clear, especially on a Google adwhere you've got minimum words
to make your point, yeah, soyeah, clarity always wins and
it's not as much fun.
But at the end of the day, youwant business more than you want
fun, I'm sure.
Austin LaRoche (11:02):
Well, yeah, and I always try and break
everything down.
Again, this is on the B2B side.
It can overlap a little bit onthe B2C side, but I always just
try and really simplify thatcustomer journey right.
Attract a prospect, convertthat prospect into an
opportunity, close thatopportunity into a customer,
delight that customer, right,yeah.
And so a lot of times whatyou're saying, clear in the
(11:25):
attract phase, gets them in thedoor, right.
But to convert, that's when youcan bring out all the value
props, that's when you can getit unique, that's when you can
all of a sudden, you know,really show off who you are and
why they should care.
But just to get them in thedoor, I think you're right, I
think clarity wins the day, andreally, especially in the
(11:46):
attract phase.
Janice Hostager (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, I like what Donald Miller always
says, that you use so much brainpower to think and it's
something I never really thoughtabout.
You'd actually burn calories tothink, and so when you have to
think about something and it'sfun, sometimes you know you see
billboards that are maybeteasers or something of
something that's coming up.
(12:08):
But if you really have toconcentrate on something, with
all the media that we havecoming at us every day, you're
just going to blow right past it.
Now it has to be clear andright to the point and right to
your customer's problem.
So, yeah, you're spot on aboutthat.
So, as small businesses, Ithink we have to grow or die,
and as I grow my business, I'veheard so many people tell me
(12:31):
that it's all about the systems.
I was kind of creeping on yourwebsite.
I noticed that you function alot with systems.
Do you see that in your ownbusiness too, that these are
necessary?
And talk to me a little moreabout that.
Austin LaRoche (12:51):
Well, I think the thing about systems is
system scale right, one of thethings that we always are
debating.
Because I am a really bigstickler on custom solutions.
I think if you come to me andyou have a problem, I do not
have a magic button that justsolved it.
I don't have the magicmarketing button.
What I have is the ability tolisten to you and understand
(13:11):
where you want to go, what'sholding you back and taking my
experience and my expertise andbe able to help create the right
path for you.
Now to do that.
So now you have to blend thosetwo things, because I always
will believe that the bestsolution for a customer is not
from sort of one size fits all,but at the same time, to scale
(13:34):
things, you do have to havethese systems, and so that's
kind of even when I was justdiscussing that temporal
framework that you know trackand very close to the light, I
try and bring people into that.
So, okay, here's a structure,here's a system.
It's going to be different foryou than it is for every other
customer.
(13:54):
Let's break this down acrosssales and marketing who's doing
what at each of these phases.
And then let's figure out whatobstacles that we might have
towards doing this the way thatwe want to be doing it, because
anybody can create a strategy,right?
Creating strategy is the mostfun thing on earth, it is the
(14:14):
best, but none of it reallymatters if you're not fulfilling
the strategy and getting theresults that you want.
So, you know, once we createthe strategy, we always look and
we recognize okay, this is theworld we want to live in.
What are the obstacles gettingus there?
And a lot of times, it's simplestuff, right?
It's resources.
(14:34):
It's content, you know.
It's technology you know, wedon't even have a CRM.
So there's these differentthings that prevent you from
living in the world that youwant with it.
(14:55):
So to me, I think there's a bigpart in between building a
strategy and actually followingthrough on a strategy is
overcoming the obstacles thatyou have to actually, you know,
be able to live in that day today that you designed, you know,
for your marketing strategy.
Janice Hostager (15:07):
So I see a lot of clients and potential clients
that I've worked with.
They actually they don't findthe joy in the strategy.
In fact, they don't know whereto start with the strategies.
What do you think?
Austin LaRoche (15:21):
So that's a great question, and I think a
lot of times you have tounderstand who you are.
So I had a client years agothat was trying to be like an
Amazon support, a company thathad this way of doing things
where they could get you cheapershipping and all this stuff,
and it was kind of confusing.
But whatever they were offering, nobody knew about it or was
(15:46):
searching about it, right.
So, on the other hand, myplumber, he knows that when I
need a plumber, I'm going tosearch for a plumber, and so if
you are a company that doessomething that people are
actively searching for, I thinkyou really should be investing
in the world of search.
(16:07):
Now, five to 10 years ago, that95% of the world of search was
all Google, and now it's verydiversified.
So you've got Google, you'vegot YouTube, which is owned by
Google, but it is a very bigcomponent of search.
Now you've got AI tools,ChatGPT, Claude, all of these
(16:29):
and they're scraping and they'refinding things.
TikTok.
I don't know when this is goingto go up.
It's currently not banned, butit might be in the future.
But that's very you know, veryimportant, and people are
looking across social mediachannels as well.
So I am always of the beliefthat one of the easiest places
to start, if people aresearching for what you offer, is
(16:51):
to really develop a searchstrategy, because those are for
lack of a better way, saying ofwarmer leads that are people who
are seeking change in theirlife, and your product or
service can come up and go.
I can deliver that change, andso that gives you a really great
opportunity.
Now, if you're on the oppositeside and you're trying to do
(17:14):
something really cool and unique, that whole hey it, I think.
Hey, you know it takes five to10 touch moments before people
pay attention.
It's going to take a lot more.
You're constantly going to haveto be explaining what this new
thing is that you created andwhy it's different.
So there's a lot of thoughtleadership that I would go into
that.
So I would invest more on um,you know, YouTube, uh, social
(17:38):
media, in that educational sideand also recognize that you've
got a Harvard journey aheadbecause you've got that convert
phase.
You know, for somebody who'sgot, let's say, the coolest new
SaaS tool, you know that'smonths to years where my
plumbers convert phase is about12 seconds.
(17:59):
Whoever picks up the phonefirst and can get here
immediately.
Janice Hostager (18:02):
Right yeah.
Austin LaRoche (18:04):
So it's like really kind of understanding
what type of business you have,and then that's where I would
then you know, based off thatkind of choose your own
adventure.
Right, based on who I am andwhat I do, this is the direction
I would go.
Janice Hostager (18:20):
Yeah, I was just thinking about that those
books yesterday when I waswriting a plan for somebody.
So it's funny you said that.
But yeah, and I think it's sortof like the old analogy whether
you're selling vitamins or painrelievers, you know whether or
not you're going to have to talkmore to talk up your vitamins
and why you need them and whyyou should need them.
I should buy them now versusthe pain reliever, as you say,
(18:43):
plumber, when you've got waterrushing in your basement, it's
time to call the plumber.
You're going to find one fast,right?
So a lot of small businessowners also.
Because they've got so much ontheir plate, they really
struggle with the consistency inmarketing.
Do you have any simpleprocesses or habits that they
can follow to stay on track?
Austin LaRoche (19:06):
I think when you're working with a team like
ours, we have a very structuredengagement.
So we're meeting every singleweek, we're following 30, 60, 90
day plans.
We create a scorecard for allof our clients where there's
KPIs every single week with aweekly goal attached to it and
we look at those.
So being able to really diveinto the numbers and not like
(19:31):
weekly, like really looking atthem weekly, helps you to make
data-driven decisions right, andyou obviously have to
understand certain things likehey, why are leads down?
Well, I don't know, it wasThanksgiving week.
Versus.
Hey, we're now looking at athree-week trajectory where our
(20:02):
leads are down.
What is going on?
Yeah, I think we call them KPItrackers, scorecards, whatever,
but every week we have a list ofKPIs that matter to our clients
and then we go through themwith them and we see where we
are.
We compare them to the previousweek and then we say, hey,
based off what we're seeing, isthis an issue?
(20:24):
Hey, things are going reallywell.
Do we want a double budget here?
Those kind of things.
But I I think like and thenumbers can be scary when things
are not going well, like I've,I've got massive ADHD.
So my brain is like, wait, badnumbers go the other way, um.
But that's why we have to facethem right, because it's not
natural for us to go like, ohhey, let's really face the bad
(20:47):
news and just kind of deal withit.
So I would say that reallylooking at the numbers at least
weekly, that matter and thenbeing able to tie that to
revenue is going to keep thingsconsistent, because you're going
to consistently go okay, well,this is what we're doing, and
we've said we need four to sixweeks.
(21:08):
We're now in week seven and wedon't have what we want.
It's time to pivot, you know,versus hey, we said it was like
four to six weeks, my gosh,we're already getting results.
It's week three.
You know, you don't know that ifyou're not putting the numbers
under the microscope
Janice Hostager (21:22):
Right, right, and I think that's good advice
for anybody to put something ontheir calendar, like every
Friday, to check and see howthings are going.
Are there tools out there thatcan kind of mitigate the fear,
you know, that kind of guidepeople along, that are a little
less overwhelming, I would say,than HubSpot too?
Austin LaRoche (21:46):
Yeah, I guess.
Maybe not tools, but I wouldsay that I feel like laser
marketing works better thanlantern marketing.
So you know, to me, when itcomes to marketing, really all
you're looking for is to havethe right message, go to the
(22:07):
right person at the right timeto make them take action.
Right.
Right message, right person,right time equals action.
So I didn't tell you this inthe pre-roll, but a month ago
today, I evacuated my home herein Southern California and then
I woke up the next day and Ilost my home.
(22:29):
I lost my home in the eveningfire.
I am so sorry.
It's all right, but I can't tell you, when
you're going through somethinglike that, how much the right
message to the right person atthe right time means.
And I'll give you on thepositive side first, all of a
sudden, all these people comingout of the woodwork, who you've
met, you know, who you haven'ttalked to in forever and who are
(22:52):
you know, sharing your storyand telling you how much they're
there for you how can I help?
How can I help?
How can I help?
My god, you've never feltemotions like that.
On the negative side, if youthink those annoying uh like
spam cold emails are stupid on anormal day, wait until you're
going through something really,really emotionally impactful.
(23:16):
Nothing seems dumber, coldoutreach.
Some guy I've never met beforeon LinkedIn going hey, Austin,
have you heard, have you thoughtabout, as we kick off the new
year using this tool or thistool, you're like I've never
thought somebody was dumber inmy life.
And it's because, if you reallystart looking at your target
(23:40):
especially in B2B, where youhave less customers who pay more
, as opposed to B2C, wherethat's usually flipped you are
constantly trying to make surethat this person knows that you
want them to be able to go towhere they want to go.
You mentioned Donald Miller, soyou know the story brand, right,
(24:01):
it's they're Luke Skywalker,you're Yoda, your product or
service is going to take them totheir version of the promised
land.
And so if you're just reachingout to somebody cold, like at
least you know, do some researchon them, right, you know what I
mean.
Like, do something so that,yeah, so that before, before you
(24:27):
send a message to somebody, andjust you know, pray and spray
that you get the right messageto the right person at the right
time, you don't accidentallysend the absolutely wrong
message to the absolutely wrongperson at the absolutely wrong
time.
(25:03):
And so I really think thatapproach of being able to look
at who this customer is, careabout them, do what it takes to
be able to connect with themorganically, and really
understand what they want isalways gonna be better than you
know, spray and pray, andthat's, I definitely feel like I
learned that lesson a coupleweeks ago and I don't think I
will ever recommend anythinglike that for a client again.
Janice Hostager (25:14):
Right, yeah, that's not usually a system that
I endorse anyway, but can I askyou?
How you do now.
Everybody's okay.
Austin LaRoche (25:25):
Yeah, Everybody's doing well.
I used to work out of a homeoffice.
Now I'm here and we work inPasadena, California.
So my family is doing well,we're in the town over and in a
few years we're going to have anawesome new house on our land
up in the foothills here inAltadena.
But yeah, it's definitely oneof those things you don't expect
(25:50):
to go through in life and ifyou, you know, look at your life
and you realize that there's.
There's peaks and valleys, um,you know, I feel like I've been.
I've been on a bit of a highfor a little while and now I'm
down in the valley looking up atthe summit.
But we'll get there, We'll getback up there.
Janice Hostager (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, the amount of calls and I'm sure
the learning curve is tremendousfor just dealing with something
like that on every level, right?
Austin LaRoche (26:32):
Yeah, and there's a lot of marketing
lessons to be learned fromsomething like that.
So there is, there are a lot ofpeople who get out quickly, but
again, trying to get that rightmessage, that right person at
the right time.
Can't tell you how many of myneighbors are just, you know,
complaining about, you knowpeople way too prematurely
reaching out.
Are you selling your land oryou know like the kind of things
that just are just not, youknow not good business, right,
and maybe sometimes we get to,hustle culture tells us to you
know, go, grind, grind, grind.
(26:53):
You know don't take no for ananswer, it's okay.
You know you take 99 no'sbefore you get a yes.
And I think that might besomewhat of the difference
between sales and marketing,right, I think marketing, you're
always trying to put yourselfin a light where you are in a
place of helpfulness and whereyou can help people get that
(27:14):
change that they're seeking,whereas I think sales can be a
little bit too immediate andsometimes rushed and sometimes
not as tactful as us marketers.
Janice Hostager (27:22):
Right, I like to think that, yes, but I do
think that actually.
But yeah, so I think that's thepoint of marketing altogether
is to grow from that awarenessto that sell stage.
And I like to go beyond thesell stage, of course, like we
talked about earlier, you canmarket throughout the entire
(27:43):
process to where they refer youagain and so on, and become
super fans.
But really the sale is jumpingto that sale and I see this all
the time.
Like you, I get messages onLinkedIn.
You get people at my front doortrying to sell me something and
I don't know who they are or ifthey're even legit, and so,
(28:04):
yeah, so don't be fooled by that.
That's not a shortcut to a sale.
It's a lot of wasted time andenergy and effort and you could
not only do people not get toknow, like and trust you, but
you can make some real enemiesdoing that as you found out this
week.
Austin LaRoche (28:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you know, I mean, I thinka lot of times, like with
marketing nowadays, like youknow, and kind of going that
part of being helpful, you getlike things like community
groups, right.
And so all of a sudden, now weknow all the people that we were
never going to do business withbecause we've all been exposed
at this bad time, and that's oneof the things, too that I've
(28:44):
always thought.
I was talking to my teamrecently because they were
asking about, like, marketing onReddit.
I said the thing about Redditand why Reddit's so great is
because it's a lot of people whocare about a subject and they
are honestly there to help.
(29:08):
So if you want to tell one ofyour customers how to market on
Reddit, tell them not to puttheir brand name, but tell them
to create a personal profile, bean expert in something and help
everybody they can and expectnothing in return.
But something probably is goingto come in return, because
that's just the law ofreciprocity, right the more that
you give, the more that yougive back, and I think that ends
up happening a lot withmarketing.
And it's a good marketinglesson that if you're giving
people the advice andinformation they need, they're
(29:30):
going to come to you.
Maybe they don't need yourproduct or service right now,
but if you built that trustedauthority like, they're going to
listen to you when it's time toget there, right.
Janice Hostager (29:41):
So yeah, yeah, and I will tell you that
recently I just responded tosomething on Reddit and shared a
resource that I have and Ithink I got I don't know 40 new
subscribers or something likethat, just on Reddit.
I had no intention of doingthat.
I mean, it's always a nicething that happens, but, yeah,
reddit, I think, is also showingup in Google search results,
(30:04):
now that it didn't really use todo that, yeah.
So that is a real benefit tobeing, you know, doing the right
thing, right.
So where can people find outmore about you?
Austin LaRoche (30:17):
Well, you can go to our website,
wwwatakinteractivecom.
You can find me on LinkedInAustin LaRoche, l-a-r-o-c-h-e,
and always open to have anyconnections or conversations,
even if it's just to be able tohelp somebody as they're trying
to go through their marketingjourney and go from where they
(30:38):
are today to where their versionof the problem slams right.
Janice Hostager (30:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Well, I appreciate youtaking the time today.
Austin LaRoche (30:46):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for having me,Janice.
Janice Hostager (30:48):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
To learn more about AustinAttack, Interactive, or anything
we talked about today, visitmyweeklymarketingcom.
Forward slash 98.
And don't forget to subscribeto My Weekly Marketing for more
insights into growing your smallbusiness too.
Remember, marketing isn't justabout what you do.
It's about the stories you telland the connections you make.
(31:11):
So keep hustling and innovatingto watch your business grow.
See you next time.
Bye for now.
I'm Janice Hostager.
After three decades in themarketing business and many
years of being an entrepreneur,I've learned a thing or two
about marketing.
Join me as we talk aboutmarketing, small business and
life in between.
Welcome to My Weekly Marketing.
(00:29):
Hey, hey, today we're taking adeep dive into strategic
marketing with Austin LaRoche,CEO of ATAK Interactive, a
marketing agency from California.
We're talking all about whathe's learned working with global
businesses that can help you,the small business owner.
We'll cover where to focus yourefforts, how to invest your
time wisely and how to set upsystems that get results.
(00:52):
We're also going to hearAustin's story about how he went
from intern to CEO literallyovernight and what it's like for
him currently to run a businessin the midst of a crisis.
So let's jump right in to mytalk with Austin.
Hey, Austin, welcome to MyWeekly Marketing.
Austin LaRoche (01:10):
Hey, thanks for having me, Janice.
Janice Hostager (01:13):
So I geek out on marketing strategy, which I
think that makes sense, sincethat's what I do for a living.
I think it's the missing pieceto an otherwise siloed industry.
But before we get into that, Iwant to hear your story.
Like how did you arrive atrunning an ad agency and doing
all the things that you do?
Austin LaRoche (01:34):
I almost describe my journey as being a
pain in the butt entrepreneur.
And that I wasn't good atworking for other people.
I went and I got a graduatedegree in communications.
I got an internship in socialmedia in 2008, when social media
(01:55):
was starting up, and then Iparlayed that into an internship
within SEO all within theTribune company, the media
company and I decided afterthose two internships I was
ready to start an agency.
And so a lot of growing pains.
(02:17):
I wish I had been more takenmore of an apprentice approach
and really learned from peoplewho knew what they were doing
for a longer period of time.
But I always wanted to work formyself, and so I actually
started a little bit more on thesocial media and B2C side with
my agency.
I started it in the New Orleansarea in 2009 and got some local
(02:40):
franchise chains across bedding, coffee, restaurants and I just
kind of doing social media andcontent marketing for them.
And I brought my agency out toCalifornia in 2011.
(03:00):
And I started doing a littlebit of work on the side with
some startups and I quicklyrealized again that you know,
anytime, like when, I could bethe one who said, hey, here's
what we need to do, and then wewould do it.
I was happy when I was workingwith people and I would and I
(03:22):
had to kind of, you know, take abackseat and just be you know
just be part of somebody else'svision.
It was much harder for me andthat's not something I think is
good.
I'm not recommending that toanybody, I'm just saying that's
how I got where I was, and so Imerged that company with ATAK
(03:43):
Interactive, a web developmentcompany, in 2014, and a lot of
things came to fruition.
It was almost like the bump Ineeded to go from solopreneur to
really being able to helpclients solve really big
problems.
What ATAK gave me that I didn'thave before was structure.
(04:03):
I am not naturally verystructured.
I'm creative.
I like being able to run withan idea and just go with it.
But to get the best out of me, Irecognized, as I was partnering
on some projects with ATAKInteractive, when I was in that
structure I was able to reallyflourish, and so that happened
in 2014.
(04:23):
And a lot of, back then, peoplewould always talk about hat
clients do you want?
And back then it would just belike, the people who would pay
me.
And so, there was a lot oflearning but we realized is that
we had a really good knack forB2B marketing and it felt like
we were able to talk to otherbusiness leaders about how to
(04:47):
market to other businesses morethan mass adoption on the B2C
side.
And so we evolved into a B2Bmarketing agency and really
started honing in on softwarelike HubSpot and Salesforce
towards the end of the 2010s andreally started recognizing, as
(05:09):
we were growing our business,that marketing was happening
well beyond your traditionalmarketing operations teams and
really a lot on your salesoperations side, your customer
success side.
And so we've been trying tounify marketing and sales teams
together through technology forabout the past four or five
(05:32):
years and we're going to breakdown that silo for every one of
our clients or we're going todie trying, and that's kind of
where we are today.
Janice Hostager (05:42):
I really love that you said that, because one
of the things that I have aframework, I call it the Trail
to the Sale.
But so much of that when I workwith clients and even in my own
business, you have to recognizethat, like you said, the sale,
the marketing takes place theentire length of the journey.
(06:04):
Well beyond the point in whichthe customer lays down their
credit card.
It's even beyond that in termsof how you're serving your
customer, how you're interactingwith them after the sale.
You know, because that lifetimevalue of that customer is so
important.
And I think you're right.
I think a lot of smallbusinesses are so focused on
(06:25):
getting anybody.
Like who do you serve?
Anybody?
You know at first, when you'refirst starting out, it has to be
that way sometimes you know youjust need to make bills or make
money, so you pay the bills.
But I love your story because Ilove that you had enough
courage to go from an internshipto an agency owner, because
that shows that you have somereal vision and that you knew
(06:51):
what you wanted.
So that's a good thing.
So I'm sure there's a lot oflessons that you've learned in
that.
But what's one thing that youreally wish you knew about
marketing, and maybe you touchedon it already, about the
systems.
But that would be helpful forsomebody who is just in those
early days and they're startingout and they're overwhelmed with
marketing and like where do youstart with a strategy?
Austin LaRoche (07:14):
I think the thing that marketing is so
different now than it was evenwhen I started, and back then a
lot of it was about trying tofind that creative genius inside
of you to create that messagethat you put out to all of your
customers that would resonatewith all of them.
(07:35):
And that's just not how thingswork anymore, because now
everybody has different customersegmentation right, they're
different customer segments,right.
We've got different valuepropositions and so we now have
all of these different methodsto be able to diversify all of
our messaging and so it's nolonger the brand telling the
(07:57):
customer like this is what it isabout us that hopefully
resonates.
It's putting out a lot ofdifferent messages and, based
off the data, recognizing whatthe customer is telling you that
resonates with them.
And that is a major differenceand it's really hard to get past
.
(08:17):
I remember probably like six orseven years ago, I was a
creative writing major, so I wassitting there with my ad copy
guy and we're just doing basicGoogle ads for our agency and
I've got all these like coolcopy that makes it sound awesome
and fun and I'm just wonderingweek after week why nothing is
(08:38):
converting.
He's sitting there going hey,man, all these other guys are
just being really simple andthey're just saying this is what
we do.
Click on us.
I'm like that's so lame.
I don't want to be that.
I don't want to be that guy.
I don't want to be that.
This is lame.
But you know, I'll appease you,we'll let you be tested.
And then, all of a sudden, theleads started coming and so that
ego had to go down andrecognize that maybe we're not
(09:03):
in, Marketing isn't necessarilyas much of oh my gosh, I'm a
creative genius.
It's not like Mad Men anymore,where a small sample size gets
to really blow the socks off offour clients who come to your
high rise office in New YorkCity.
Come to your high-rise officein New York City.
It's sending out, you know,dozens, if not hundreds, of
different messages to differentcustomers and really seeing
(09:24):
what's resonating with them andthen being able to use that data
to hone in on messages that younow know your customers are
interested in.
Janice Hostager (09:33):
Yeah, yeah, I'm so glad that you brought that
up because I think one of thethings that I you know, I came
when I graduated from collegeand grad school it was very much
.
Things were just starting tomove, everything was online.
So it was like right at thecusp, where everything was going
online and the internet was upand running for an ad agency, so
(10:00):
we just did ads and so youdidn't have it was all push
marketing, so you didn't havethis feedback loop like you do
now with social media andinternet and all of that, and it
really changed the wholeindustry and put it on its ear.
But I love what you said aboutbeing creative, because I can
remember sitting in offices and,like you know, with as I was an
art director at that point andwith a creative writer or a
copywriter, and you know,throwing pencils at the ceiling
(10:22):
and trying to figure outsomething that would be fun and
creative and catch somebody'sattention, our ideal customer's
attention.
But now I think you'reabsolutely right.
You know and I tell clientsthis all the time too it's just
clear wins the day.
There's a place for creativity,for sure, but if you're being
(10:43):
clear, especially on a Google adwhere you've got minimum words
to make your point, yeah, soyeah, clarity always wins and
it's not as much fun.
But at the end of the day, youwant business more than you want
fun, I'm sure.
Austin LaRoche (11:02):
Well, yeah, and I always try and break
everything down.
Again, this is on the B2B side.
It can overlap a little bit onthe B2C side, but I always just
try and really simplify thatcustomer journey right.
Attract a prospect, convertthat prospect into an
opportunity, close thatopportunity into a customer,
delight that customer, right,yeah.
And so a lot of times whatyou're saying, clear in the
(11:25):
attract phase, gets them in thedoor, right.
But to convert, that's when youcan bring out all the value
props, that's when you can getit unique, that's when you can
all of a sudden, you know,really show off who you are and
why they should care.
But just to get them in thedoor, I think you're right, I
think clarity wins the day, andreally, especially in the
(11:46):
attract phase.
Janice Hostager (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, I like what Donald Miller always
says, that you use so much brainpower to think and it's
something I never really thoughtabout.
You'd actually burn calories tothink, and so when you have to
think about something and it'sfun, sometimes you know you see
billboards that are maybeteasers or something of
something that's coming up.
(12:08):
But if you really have toconcentrate on something, with
all the media that we havecoming at us every day, you're
just going to blow right past it.
Now it has to be clear andright to the point and right to
your customer's problem.
So, yeah, you're spot on aboutthat.
So, as small businesses, Ithink we have to grow or die,
and as I grow my business, I'veheard so many people tell me
(12:31):
that it's all about the systems.
I was kind of creeping on yourwebsite.
I noticed that you function alot with systems.
Do you see that in your ownbusiness too, that these are
necessary?
And talk to me a little moreabout that.
Austin LaRoche (12:51):
Well, I think the thing about systems is
system scale right, one of thethings that we always are
debating.
Because I am a really bigstickler on custom solutions.
I think if you come to me andyou have a problem, I do not
have a magic button that justsolved it.
I don't have the magicmarketing button.
What I have is the ability tolisten to you and understand
(13:11):
where you want to go, what'sholding you back and taking my
experience and my expertise andbe able to help create the right
path for you.
Now to do that.
So now you have to blend thosetwo things, because I always
will believe that the bestsolution for a customer is not
from sort of one size fits all,but at the same time, to scale
(13:34):
things, you do have to havethese systems, and so that's
kind of even when I was justdiscussing that temporal
framework that you know trackand very close to the light, I
try and bring people into that.
So, okay, here's a structure,here's a system.
It's going to be different foryou than it is for every other
customer.
(13:54):
Let's break this down acrosssales and marketing who's doing
what at each of these phases.
And then let's figure out whatobstacles that we might have
towards doing this the way thatwe want to be doing it, because
anybody can create a strategy,right?
Creating strategy is the mostfun thing on earth, it is the
(14:14):
best, but none of it reallymatters if you're not fulfilling
the strategy and getting theresults that you want.
So, you know, once we createthe strategy, we always look and
we recognize okay, this is theworld we want to live in.
What are the obstacles gettingus there?
And a lot of times, it's simplestuff, right?
It's resources.
(14:34):
It's content, you know.
It's technology you know, wedon't even have a CRM.
So there's these differentthings that prevent you from
living in the world that youwant with it.
(14:55):
So to me, I think there's a bigpart in between building a
strategy and actually followingthrough on a strategy is
overcoming the obstacles thatyou have to actually, you know,
be able to live in that day today that you designed, you know,
for your marketing strategy.
Janice Hostager (15:07):
So I see a lot of clients and potential clients
that I've worked with.
They actually they don't findthe joy in the strategy.
In fact, they don't know whereto start with the strategies.
What do you think?
Austin LaRoche (15:21):
So that's a great question, and I think a
lot of times you have tounderstand who you are.
So I had a client years agothat was trying to be like an
Amazon support, a company thathad this way of doing things
where they could get you cheapershipping and all this stuff,
and it was kind of confusing.
But whatever they were offering, nobody knew about it or was
(15:46):
searching about it, right.
So, on the other hand, myplumber, he knows that when I
need a plumber, I'm going tosearch for a plumber, and so if
you are a company that doessomething that people are
actively searching for, I thinkyou really should be investing
in the world of search.
(16:07):
Now, five to 10 years ago, that95% of the world of search was
all Google, and now it's verydiversified.
So you've got Google, you'vegot YouTube, which is owned by
Google, but it is a very bigcomponent of search.
Now you've got AI tools,ChatGPT, Claude, all of these
(16:29):
and they're scraping and they'refinding things.
TikTok.
I don't know when this is goingto go up.
It's currently not banned, butit might be in the future.
But that's very you know, veryimportant, and people are
looking across social mediachannels as well.
So I am always of the beliefthat one of the easiest places
to start, if people aresearching for what you offer, is
(16:51):
to really develop a searchstrategy, because those are for
lack of a better way, saying ofwarmer leads that are people who
are seeking change in theirlife, and your product or
service can come up and go.
I can deliver that change, andso that gives you a really great
opportunity.
Now, if you're on the oppositeside and you're trying to do
(17:14):
something really cool and unique, that whole hey it, I think.
Hey, you know it takes five to10 touch moments before people
pay attention.
It's going to take a lot more.
You're constantly going to haveto be explaining what this new
thing is that you created andwhy it's different.
So there's a lot of thoughtleadership that I would go into
that.
So I would invest more on um,you know, YouTube, uh, social
(17:38):
media, in that educational sideand also recognize that you've
got a Harvard journey aheadbecause you've got that convert
phase.
You know, for somebody who'sgot, let's say, the coolest new
SaaS tool, you know that'smonths to years where my
plumbers convert phase is about12 seconds.
(17:59):
Whoever picks up the phonefirst and can get here
immediately.
Janice Hostager (18:02):
Right yeah.
Austin LaRoche (18:04):
So it's like really kind of understanding
what type of business you have,and then that's where I would
then you know, based off thatkind of choose your own
adventure.
Right, based on who I am andwhat I do, this is the direction
I would go.
Janice Hostager (18:20):
Yeah, I was just thinking about that those
books yesterday when I waswriting a plan for somebody.
So it's funny you said that.
But yeah, and I think it's sortof like the old analogy whether
you're selling vitamins or painrelievers, you know whether or
not you're going to have to talkmore to talk up your vitamins
and why you need them and whyyou should need them.
I should buy them now versusthe pain reliever, as you say,
(18:43):
plumber, when you've got waterrushing in your basement, it's
time to call the plumber.
You're going to find one fast,right?
So a lot of small businessowners also.
Because they've got so much ontheir plate, they really
struggle with the consistency inmarketing.
Do you have any simpleprocesses or habits that they
can follow to stay on track?
Austin LaRoche (19:06):
I think when you're working with a team like
ours, we have a very structuredengagement.
So we're meeting every singleweek, we're following 30, 60, 90
day plans.
We create a scorecard for allof our clients where there's
KPIs every single week with aweekly goal attached to it and
we look at those.
So being able to really diveinto the numbers and not like
(19:31):
weekly, like really looking atthem weekly, helps you to make
data-driven decisions right, andyou obviously have to
understand certain things likehey, why are leads down?
Well, I don't know, it wasThanksgiving week.
Versus.
Hey, we're now looking at athree-week trajectory where our
(20:02):
leads are down.
What is going on?
Yeah, I think we call them KPItrackers, scorecards, whatever,
but every week we have a list ofKPIs that matter to our clients
and then we go through themwith them and we see where we
are.
We compare them to the previousweek and then we say, hey,
based off what we're seeing, isthis an issue?
(20:24):
Hey, things are going reallywell.
Do we want a double budget here?
Those kind of things.
But I I think like and thenumbers can be scary when things
are not going well, like I've,I've got massive ADHD.
So my brain is like, wait, badnumbers go the other way, um.
But that's why we have to facethem right, because it's not
natural for us to go like, ohhey, let's really face the bad
(20:47):
news and just kind of deal withit.
So I would say that reallylooking at the numbers at least
weekly, that matter and thenbeing able to tie that to
revenue is going to keep thingsconsistent, because you're going
to consistently go okay, well,this is what we're doing, and
we've said we need four to sixweeks.
(21:08):
We're now in week seven and wedon't have what we want.
It's time to pivot, you know,versus hey, we said it was like
four to six weeks, my gosh,we're already getting results.
It's week three.
You know, you don't know that ifyou're not putting the numbers
under the microscope
Janice Hostager (21:22):
Right, right, and I think that's good advice
for anybody to put something ontheir calendar, like every
Friday, to check and see howthings are going.
Are there tools out there thatcan kind of mitigate the fear,
you know, that kind of guidepeople along, that are a little
less overwhelming, I would say,than HubSpot too?
Austin LaRoche (21:46):
Yeah, I guess.
Maybe not tools, but I wouldsay that I feel like laser
marketing works better thanlantern marketing.
So you know, to me, when itcomes to marketing, really all
you're looking for is to havethe right message, go to the
(22:07):
right person at the right timeto make them take action.
Right.
Right message, right person,right time equals action.
So I didn't tell you this inthe pre-roll, but a month ago
today, I evacuated my home herein Southern California and then
I woke up the next day and Ilost my home.
(22:29):
I lost my home in the eveningfire.
I am so sorry.
It's all right, but I can't tell you, when
you're going through somethinglike that, how much the right
message to the right person atthe right time means.
And I'll give you on thepositive side first, all of a
sudden, all these people comingout of the woodwork, who you've
met, you know, who you haven'ttalked to in forever and who are
(22:52):
you know, sharing your storyand telling you how much they're
there for you how can I help?
How can I help?
How can I help?
My god, you've never feltemotions like that.
On the negative side, if youthink those annoying uh like
spam cold emails are stupid on anormal day, wait until you're
going through something really,really emotionally impactful.
(23:16):
Nothing seems dumber, coldoutreach.
Some guy I've never met beforeon LinkedIn going hey, Austin,
have you heard, have you thoughtabout, as we kick off the new
year using this tool or thistool, you're like I've never
thought somebody was dumber inmy life.
And it's because, if you reallystart looking at your target
(23:40):
especially in B2B, where youhave less customers who pay more
, as opposed to B2C, wherethat's usually flipped you are
constantly trying to make surethat this person knows that you
want them to be able to go towhere they want to go.
You mentioned Donald Miller, soyou know the story brand, right,
(24:01):
it's they're Luke Skywalker,you're Yoda, your product or
service is going to take them totheir version of the promised
land.
And so if you're just reachingout to somebody cold, like at
least you know, do some researchon them, right, you know what I
mean.
Like, do something so that,yeah, so that before, before you
(24:27):
send a message to somebody, andjust you know, pray and spray
that you get the right messageto the right person at the right
time, you don't accidentallysend the absolutely wrong
message to the absolutely wrongperson at the absolutely wrong
time.
(25:03):
And so I really think thatapproach of being able to look
at who this customer is, careabout them, do what it takes to
be able to connect with themorganically, and really
understand what they want isalways gonna be better than you
know, spray and pray, andthat's, I definitely feel like I
learned that lesson a coupleweeks ago and I don't think I
will ever recommend anythinglike that for a client again.
Janice Hostager (25:14):
Right, yeah, that's not usually a system that
I endorse anyway, but can I askyou?
How you do now.
Everybody's okay.
Austin LaRoche (25:25):
Yeah, Everybody's doing well.
I used to work out of a homeoffice.
Now I'm here and we work inPasadena, California.
So my family is doing well,we're in the town over and in a
few years we're going to have anawesome new house on our land
up in the foothills here inAltadena.
But yeah, it's definitely oneof those things you don't expect
(25:50):
to go through in life and ifyou, you know, look at your life
and you realize that there's.
There's peaks and valleys, um,you know, I feel like I've been.
I've been on a bit of a highfor a little while and now I'm
down in the valley looking up atthe summit.
But we'll get there, We'll getback up there.
Janice Hostager (26:31):
Yeah, yeah, the amount of calls and I'm sure
the learning curve is tremendousfor just dealing with something
like that on every level, right?
Austin LaRoche (26:32):
Yeah, and there's a lot of marketing
lessons to be learned fromsomething like that.
So there is, there are a lot ofpeople who get out quickly, but
again, trying to get that rightmessage, that right person at
the right time.
Can't tell you how many of myneighbors are just, you know,
complaining about, you knowpeople way too prematurely
reaching out.
Are you selling your land oryou know like the kind of things
that just are just not, youknow not good business, right,
and maybe sometimes we get to,hustle culture tells us to you
know, go, grind, grind, grind.
(26:53):
You know don't take no for ananswer, it's okay.
You know you take 99 no'sbefore you get a yes.
And I think that might besomewhat of the difference
between sales and marketing,right, I think marketing, you're
always trying to put yourselfin a light where you are in a
place of helpfulness and whereyou can help people get that
(27:14):
change that they're seeking,whereas I think sales can be a
little bit too immediate andsometimes rushed and sometimes
not as tactful as us marketers.
Janice Hostager (27:22):
Right, I like to think that, yes, but I do
think that actually.
But yeah, so I think that's thepoint of marketing altogether
is to grow from that awarenessto that sell stage.
And I like to go beyond thesell stage, of course, like we
talked about earlier, you canmarket throughout the entire
(27:43):
process to where they refer youagain and so on, and become
super fans.
But really the sale is jumpingto that sale and I see this all
the time.
Like you, I get messages onLinkedIn.
You get people at my front doortrying to sell me something and
I don't know who they are or ifthey're even legit, and so,
(28:04):
yeah, so don't be fooled by that.
That's not a shortcut to a sale.
It's a lot of wasted time andenergy and effort and you could
not only do people not get toknow, like and trust you, but
you can make some real enemiesdoing that as you found out this
week.
Austin LaRoche (28:19):
Absolutely.
Yeah, you know, I mean, I thinka lot of times, like with
marketing nowadays, like youknow, and kind of going that
part of being helpful, you getlike things like community
groups, right.
And so all of a sudden, now weknow all the people that we were
never going to do business withbecause we've all been exposed
at this bad time, and that's oneof the things, too that I've
(28:44):
always thought.
I was talking to my teamrecently because they were
asking about, like, marketing onReddit.
I said the thing about Redditand why Reddit's so great is
because it's a lot of people whocare about a subject and they
are honestly there to help.
(29:08):
So if you want to tell one ofyour customers how to market on
Reddit, tell them not to puttheir brand name, but tell them
to create a personal profile, bean expert in something and help
everybody they can and expectnothing in return.
But something probably is goingto come in return, because
that's just the law ofreciprocity, right the more that
you give, the more that yougive back, and I think that ends
up happening a lot withmarketing.
And it's a good marketinglesson that if you're giving
people the advice andinformation they need, they're
(29:30):
going to come to you.
Maybe they don't need yourproduct or service right now,
but if you built that trustedauthority like, they're going to
listen to you when it's time toget there, right.
Janice Hostager (29:41):
So yeah, yeah, and I will tell you that
recently I just responded tosomething on Reddit and shared a
resource that I have and Ithink I got I don't know 40 new
subscribers or something likethat, just on Reddit.
I had no intention of doingthat.
I mean, it's always a nicething that happens, but, yeah,
reddit, I think, is also showingup in Google search results,
(30:04):
now that it didn't really use todo that, yeah.
So that is a real benefit tobeing, you know, doing the right
thing, right.
So where can people find outmore about you?
Austin LaRoche (30:17):
Well, you can go to our website,
wwwatakinteractivecom.
You can find me on LinkedInAustin LaRoche, l-a-r-o-c-h-e,
and always open to have anyconnections or conversations,
even if it's just to be able tohelp somebody as they're trying
to go through their marketingjourney and go from where they
(30:38):
are today to where their versionof the problem slams right.
Janice Hostager (30:42):
Absolutely.
Yeah, Well, I appreciate youtaking the time today.
Austin LaRoche (30:46):
Absolutely.
Thanks so much for having me,Janice.
Janice Hostager (30:48):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
To learn more about AustinAttack, Interactive, or anything
we talked about today, visitmyweeklymarketingcom.
Forward slash 98.
And don't forget to subscribeto My Weekly Marketing for more
insights into growing your smallbusiness too.
Remember, marketing isn't justabout what you do.
It's about the stories you telland the connections you make.
(31:11):
So keep hustling and innovatingto watch your business grow.
See you next time.
Bye for now.
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