The Great Bond Debate: Examining Measure ABC for Burbank Schools

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
From deep in the Burbank Media District.
It's time for another editionof my Burbank Talks, presented
by the staff of my Burbank.
Now let's see what's on today'sagenda as we join our program.
Hello Burbank, craig Sherwoodhere with you once again, and we
have a very unique show today.
So I want to welcome you to aunique debate that we put

(00:20):
together for the upcomingNovember election, where we are
going to discuss the schooldistrict's measure ABC, where
voters are being asked toapprove a bond for school
facilities in Burbank.
Today, we have Mr JoelSchlossman with us, who is a
staunch opponent of the bondmeasure on the no side, and Andy
Cantwell, the AssistantSuperintendent of Administrative

(00:41):
Services for the BurbankUnified School District, in
support.
We are going to use the sameformat as the recent
presidential election debate wewill ask a question and each
side will be given a two-minutetime to answer the question,
followed by a one-minutefollow-up period.
Neither side has been giventhese questions in advance.

(01:02):
I want to also thank a coupleof my Burbank readers who helped
me form these questions inadvance.
I want to also thank a coupleof my Burbank readers who helped
me form these questions whoasked to remain anonymous, which
we will do.
We are also going to start offwith a two-minute opening
statement.
Before we started, we flipped acoin to see who was going to go
first, and Andy was the winnerof the coin toss and is selected

(01:24):
to go last at the closingstatements, and Joel will be
taking the first question.
So right now we're going togive each person a chance to
give their opening statement.
So, joel, go ahead, you're upfirst.

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, mr Sherwood, thank you very much for hosting
this discussion.
It is of paramount importancefor all citizens here in Burbank
.
I think that the school boardfive elected members have done a
horrible job of educating thepublic and they are to be
distrusted, and they've told usa number of things that are flat

(02:05):
out untrue.
The last time we had a parceltax, they told us there was no
money for raises, but in theintervening years and
immediately after the parcel taxwas defeated, three raises were
given to the employees, andwe'll talk about that in a
little bit.
This is a big deal.

(02:26):
It is not a four-year term,this is a 30-year term and it
has the.
What it will do is it willdevastate our youth and it will
devastate our senior citizenswho can't go back to work, and

(02:50):
it hurts our students severalways.
If you want your kid to do well, the best thing to do is to
spend time with them, and thisbond necessitates parents work
more hours to come up with moremoney to service the bond and
pay more for everything inBurbank, and that takes time

(03:10):
away from the students wherethey could be with their parents
, and that helps.
It helps our kids a great deal.
So I've asked a number ofquestions at the podium.
I've been going to theirmeetings for not years, but
really decades.
I've been going to theirmeetings for not years but
really decades and I must saythat this makeup of this board
I've never been treated sopoorly.

(03:31):
I've asked questions and I'verarely gotten answers.
And they're verystraightforward questions.
I asked the superintendent atthe last meeting I attended.
I gave him this exact piece ofpaper.
It says is Measure ABC, a newtax, yes or no?
And he would not answer.
He deferred the question, andthat's the type of thing we're

(03:53):
up against.
So thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:57):
Andy, your two minutes starts now.
Give us your opening remarks,please.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
Greg, thank you so much for having us this
afternoon.
Joel, I appreciate you joiningas well.
I can think of nowhere I'drather be on my vacation
afternoon than here.
And I say that just as apreface to say that, as a school
district employee, there arecertain things I cannot do on
district time.
And so I did actually take avacation time to be able to be

(04:21):
here today to not only educatebut also advocate for the bond.
Vacation time to be able to behere today to not only educate
but also advocate for the bond.
Before I do, I'd like to justshare who I am so that way our
listeners know who it is that'sspeaking in support of Measure
ABC.
My name is Andy Cantwell.
I was raised in Ventura County.
I went kindergarten through12th grade in the same school
district in Moorpark Unified.

(04:42):
When I was a sophomore incollege I had the opportunity to
return to my home schooldistrict and begin working and
quickly identified my passionfor education.
I realized that in publiceducation we, uniquely, are able
to change family trees.
We are doing incredible work.
Perhaps the greatest source ofsocial change, the greatest

(05:05):
source of economic mobility, isour public education system.
I had too much respect forteachers to think that I'd be
any good at teaching, and so Idecided a little bit of an
orthodox path intoadministration.
I went to law school, receivedmy Juris Doctorate and a
Master's in Businessadministration and finance.
I also went on to USC althoughI'm sporting my UCLA Bruin

(05:28):
colors today just becausethere's so few of us in the
district office but I didreceive a certificate graduate
certificate in school businessmanagement from USC.
My career has spanned fromSanta Barbara County Education
Office to the Ojai UnifiedSchool District, to a brief
stint out in Texas and now, mostrecently, here in Burbank.

(05:48):
For the past two years, in myrole as the Assistant
Superintendent forAdministrative Services, I'm
responsible for, among otherthings, the fiscal, health and
fiscal condition of our district, as well as our facilities, and
I look forward to being able todiscuss both those this
afternoon.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Fantastic's great to have you both here, joel.
You're up first with the firstquestion here, and that question
is the bond.
As written authorizes theburbank unified school district
to issue and sell generalobligation bonds in the amount
of 485 million 205 thousanddollars.
So the campaign for the bond besuccessful.

(06:24):
Will the district purchase?
Would or should the districtpurchase that amount in one lump
sum or in smaller amounts tocoincide with projects as they
occur?
How will the purchasing messageaffect the cost to the property
owners that will be responsiblefor funding them?
So, joel, you have two minutes.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, I quickly want to respond to Mr Cantwell.
Obviously I'm not in the sameleague as you with your law
degree and so forth.
I respect that very much.
But the important part that youleft out is you don't live in
Burbank and you won't be payinga penny of this bond.
So that's something I hopefolks will take note of.
To answer your question, mrSherwood, you know I'm not the

(07:09):
person in charge making thosetypes of decisions.
That question is better settledfor Mr Cantwell.
But I'll tell you.
Obviously you should not sellall the bonds at once.
You should sell them as they'reneeded.
Why would you destroy you know?
Why would you start payinginterest on money right away
when you're not going to beusing it?
It's a question that is reallysimplistic for anybody to answer

(07:34):
.
It would be foolish to dosomething like that.
Grab all, guarantee you all$485 million will be.
All those bonds will be sold.
There won't be one penny left.
Now what we have to talk aboutis the interest on those bonds,

(07:59):
which are projected to beapproximately one.
With the interest it's going tobe 1.1 billion dollars, and
this is devastating ourcommunities.
Take that much money it.
This amount of money is greaterthan the two previous bonds
that we've issued.
Combined.
It's greater than any bondissued by the city.

(08:20):
It's historically.
There's never been any bondsbigger than this.
And the sad part, mr Sherwood,it's not needed and we'll talk
about that, hopefully of waysaround it.
But the BUSD has gone straightto our pocketbooks and that's
the simplest way for them to getmoney, when they should stop

(08:43):
being wasteful and mismanagingthe money they do have.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
All right.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
Andy, you're up.
That's a great question.
I think it really highlightsthe reality that there are
safeguards both federally and atthe state level to ensure
appropriate expenditure of funds, and so one example of that
would be that federal IRSguidelines actually prohibit the
sale of or issuance of the bondproceeds all at once.
The intent is that you aresupposed to obligate up to 85,

(09:12):
or you're supposed to obligate85 percent of the bond funds
within 36 months of theirissuance.
So what that means would be theintent would be to have three
or four issuances Right now ourprogram is for four issuances
and those would take place thefirst of which, if the bond does
pass, would be in 2025.

(09:33):
And then every two to threeyears thereafter as we draw down
or spend those bond funds.
And so certainly it's importantto understand again the
safeguards that exist herelocally with the Assistant
Oversight Committee.
But even beyond the localoversight, there are other
guidelines statutory that ensureappropriate retention and

(09:55):
expenditure of the bond funds.

Speaker 1 (09:58):
Okay, joel, you have one minute to follow up to
follow up.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, you know, we've heard this same old shtick
before from the school district,two times before, about
independent supervision, and thetruth of the matter is your
committee has never denied youanything.
Whatever you ask for, thecommittee that you appoint
approves your spending request,and there are certain procedures

(10:28):
in effect where you're supposedto have committee members that
are qualified.
And the fact of the matter is,during this last committee run
for this last bond approximatelyfive years worth you had, I'm
told, a committee member who wasnot qualified.
So these are the types ofthings.

(10:48):
Now, I know you're going tospend the money.
There's no doubt about that.
We can all spend money andwe'll talk about that.
But if you hire somebody tofind problems and pay them
$512,000, they're going to findproblems and that's what you've
done.

Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, andy, go ahead and follow up, please.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
I think we've gone on a little bit of a tangent from
the question of the timing andmethod of issuance, but I want
to make sure that I do addressJoel's concern over the Citizen
Oversight Committee.
I'm sure we'll have a chance totalk about that a little bit
more later.
But I just want to ensure that,for now, that we focus on the
importance of an oversightcommittee, that is, a watchdog
entity.

(11:30):
They are not the approvalentity, but again, we'll we'll
talk more as this discussionunfolds on the importance of
assist and oversight committee.
With regard to, again, theissuance of the, the bonds, I
look forward and hope that we'llhave the opportunity to have
that first issuance in April orMay of 25.

(11:52):
We right now have a AA positiverating and, as interest rates
have been dropping, we'relooking at this being a really
strategic and great opportunityfor the timing of potential bond
sales.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Okay, fantastic.
Let's move on to question twohere.
There's a statewide and, andy,this is for you.
First, there is a statewideschool facilities bond on the
November ballot.
Why do Burbank voters need tosupport a local bond when this
proposition authorizes $10billion to be spent on school
facilities?
So to pass?

(12:30):
How can Burbank benefit from it?
What amount of funding can weexpect to receive and how can
the funds be spent?

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Greg, that's actually one of the most common
questions I've been getting as Ispeak to the community about
this bond, so there is someconfusion.
There's a state bond measure.
It's Proposition 2.
If it passes again, it willallow the issuance of $10
billion of bonds for schoolfacilities.
That's not only kindergartenthrough 12th grade, but it's

(12:58):
also community colleges wouldhave access to those funds.
However, the most criticalelement to know is that the only
way that Burbank can accessthose funds would be through
having a local match, and so thematch requires that, depending
on the type of funding, either adollar for dollar match.
Local dollars to make availablestate funds or certain types of

(13:19):
projects require a 60% matchfor 40% funding from the state.
Require a 60% match for 40%funding from the state.
In total, it would openourselves up to being able to
access up to $40 million ofadditional revenues for Burbank,
and so, if Prop 2 passes, itwould create a great opportunity
for us to leverage localdollars even further.

(13:39):
However, again, the mostimportant thing to understand is
that those dollars don't becomeavailable to us unless we have
the local match.
There are multiple ways inwhich we could have a local
match, but the most direct wouldbe Measure ABC.

Speaker 1 (13:53):
Fantastic, Joel.
You have two minutes Go ahead.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
You know, mr Cantwell , bonds are paid through.
Our method of collection isthrough our property taxes, and
if you own real property,whether it's a shopping mall or
a house or a condominium, you'regoing to get a tax bill and
this bond is going to cause yourtax bill to have a line item

(14:24):
for the Burbank School Districtand if you don't pay it, you can
lose your house, you can loseyour property.
The county comes in and takesyour property away if you don't
have the ability to pay it Now.
That doesn't happeninstantaneously.
It takes a number of years.
And with regard to what's goingon in Los Angeles, I haven't

(14:44):
studied that, but I suspectthere's waste and mismanagement
there as well, but I don't knowbecause I don't attend their
school board meetings.
But I can tell you what Iwitness, and I witness our
school board members saying, forexample, charlene Tabbit,
$10,000 means nothing to us.
You know words to that effect.

(15:07):
That's nothing for anorganization our size and when
you have that attitude it'sproblematic for the taxpayers.
You should be safeguarding ourmoney Now.
This is interesting to mebecause we're talking about
where the money goes.
You get $219 million now andyou probably get a cost of

(15:27):
living increase every year andthat's what we should be talking
about to facilitate the repairof the facilities, which you
know need money from time totime.
I'm not arguing with you onthat point.
I'm arguing with you aboutwhere the money goes now, and
I've got some points here aboutin the last 10 years, teacher

(15:49):
salary have gone up 47% Now.
That's 4.7% a year.
That's reasonable, but theadministrators have gone up 95%
and I find that to beproblematic when you want to
reach into my pocket for moremoney.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Okay, thank you, Andy .
Go ahead and you have oneminute to respond.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Well, I think Joel brought up a number of concerns
that, again, I've heard himexpress previously, as well as
others, and I think there's afew important things to
highlight here.
First, a concern overadministrator salaries.
Again, a general obligationschool facility bond may not be
used for administrator salaries.
That's just yet anothersafeguard in place with facility

(16:31):
bonds, and so, for those whoare concerned that it may go
further toward governmentbureaucracy, that is not
actually a permissible use ofthose funds.
I think the heart of what Joelhas expressed at board meetings
and already in this conversationis really the reality that
times are difficult economically.
We are seeing that at thefederal level.

(16:52):
That's the number one issuethat is likely driving the
federal elections, and we knowit certainly is hitting here in
Burbank as well, here in Burbankas well.
I think that we've alreadytalked about the importance of
education helping drive acapable and skilled workforce.
I also just want to highlighthere, though, right now, that

(17:13):
the current property tax billsalready include the payment of
the bond proceeds from the 1997bond in 2013.
And so what we're talking abouthere is a continuation of an
existing tax rate, not a new taxrate.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
Okay, Thank you.
Let's move on here to questionnumber three.
And Andy, I do appreciate youbeing here today, but you are a
district employee, you know, bytrade, even though this is a
vacation day for you.
I probably know better places tospend my vacations, and you can
provide a lot of factualinformation, but let me ask you

(17:53):
who is leading the campaign toget voters to approve the bond?
Because of course, it can't beindividuals in the district.
So who's leading the campaign?
Is there an organized campaignwith a registered committee?
If so, do they have aprofessional consultant working
with them?
And finally, why aren't there?
Why are they not making thecase for the?

Speaker 3 (18:15):
yes vote.
If they are around, thisquestion starts with me.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yes, okay, I'm sorry.
I'm sorry, joe.
I'm sorry, the question was foryou.
I'm sorry, okay.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
Well, I'll use a few seconds of my time just to
respond to a few things, as youcan't well said earlier, you
know I voted for the lottery andthat was supposed to help our
schools, and what the lotterydid when that passed is they
took that money, they gave usthe lottery money, but they
shrunk the general fund moneythat we were getting, so it
became a wash.
And that's the type of trickerythat this school district is

(18:47):
going to pull on the citizenryof Burbank.
You're going to say, oh, we'regoing to use every penny for
facilities, but that frees upthe general fund money that's
not being used to go to salaries.
So we know what's going tohappen.
It's a lot of trickery going onand the unions are pulling the
strings of this school board andI've got documents here to

(19:08):
prove that because they gavedonations and who they gave
donations to, and PresidentWeisberg all but admits it.
So that's something else.
Education is changing.
Mr Cantwell, you think this isgoing to be the same in 30 years
?
It's not.
There's a new model coming andit's called AI and our kids are
going to get a better educationfrom it.

(19:29):
You know, right now studentsget about a minute of
individualized attention in theclassroom and they're going to
spending time going fromclassroom to classroom all day
long and this is an impedimentin their education.
With AI, they can get the fullattention, individualized
attention and a better education, and that's where we're going.

(19:50):
You can fight it all you want,but it's going to happen and
it's going to be a differentlandscape, and not in 30 years,
in a few years.
It's coming fast.
Now you left off something else.
If we vote no on this thing,our tax bills are going to go
down, and that's a fact.
Now can you use some extramoney?
I know I can.
I know I can use that help andI think a lot of families here

(20:11):
in Burbank can, because we'vebeen good stewards towards
paying these previous two bonds.
We've been generous with you,and you mismanage the money and
you don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
You kind of admit it now that you got sloppy work.

Speaker 2 (20:32):
Well, where was?

Speaker 1 (20:33):
your oversight committee during that now, okay,
that's your time.
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 3 (20:35):
Okay, andy, go ahead why don't you have two minutes
for your question, craig?
Would you mind actuallyrepeating that question?
I know Joel brought forwardmany great points, but it felt
like maybe I missed her, so thequestion wasn't quite.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Yeah, basically you're a school district
employee although you're on yourown private time.
And is there a yes on MeasureABC committee?
Is there a professionalconsultant involved and why
aren't they involved in anything, if there is?

Speaker 3 (21:02):
Great, okay, I did understand.
I just, based on Joel'sresponse, was concerned that I
may have misheard.
I think that the one thing Ican glean from Joel's comment
was that we do have the supportof our teachers union and
classified union.
What really makes Burbankspecial and this Measure ABC
special is that it doesn't byany means end there.

(21:24):
We also have received theofficial endorsement from the
PTA, from our parents, fromParent Teacher Association.
We also have receivedendorsement from the Chamber of
Commerce here in Burbank, and sothere is an incredible grouping
of individuals who have cometogether to support this that
you don't usually see when itcomes to local district bonds.

(21:44):
Usually you might see thesupport of a certificated union
the teachers but that may nothave the support of the class
fighter.
You may see the support of theemployees, but you don't see the
support of the local chamber.
You see the support of onegroup, but you don't necessarily
see the parents.
And so really, I think it's agreat testimony to what makes
Burbank unique, the investmentthat we see here across the

(22:09):
board, that there is so manydifferent individuals who have
poured time into Measure ABC.
There is a committee.
I understand that they areworking diligently right now on
putting together mailers as wellas on posters.
I am confident that thiscommunity will see in the very

(22:30):
near future much more visiblesigns of promotion for Measure
ABC.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
Okay, joel, you have one minute.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Yeah, well, to answer your question, there is a
website that is telling you tokind of a rudimentary website,
but nonetheless answer yourquestion is the person who it's
registered to does not live inBurbank.
It's registered to a womannamed Wendy Harville, doesn't
live in Burbank.
So who's who's?
Who's funding this thing?

(23:01):
I'll tell you, it's right herethe unions.
The unions who stand to benefitMr Sherwood, the unions who
want to get the money, thesehundreds of millions of dollars.
That's who's funding it, andthese campaign disclosure forms
show.
All you got to do is follow themoney.
So there's the answer to yourquestion.
It's not the moms and pops,it's not the Pta donating money

(23:24):
for this thing.
The unions who are controllingthe school board members.
And the proof of that is righthere.
If I have, uh, eight secondsleft, I don't, but I'll yield
the last few seconds okay, andyhave a minute to follow up um,
I'm not quite sure, joel.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
if you're referring to the unions that work within
the school district, primarilythe Burbank Teachers Association
and the Classified SchoolEmployee Association, we are
grateful to have the formalendorsement of both those groups
.
We also have been reaching outto the community.
We also have been reaching outto the community and so we have

(24:19):
a great cross section of thetrade unions.
The trades that have we seepretty evident from both the
financial disclosures as well asthe, the endorsements on the
website is a incrediblecross-section of individuals in
support of investing in ourschools here locally all right,
okay, and his next question isfor you.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Uh, joel has stated in a letter to my Burbank that
he believes that the districthas mismanaged prior bonds and
accepted substandard work.
What I do not hear isrecognition that the HVAC
equipment, the air conditioningand the roofs that are part of
the 1997 bond are approaching 30years old.

(25:01):
Isn't it logical to think thatat this time for them to be
replaced?
Wouldn't most voters supportthis, in an effort to keep our
schools in good condition, justlike homeowners do with their
own properties?

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah, craig, I think you just nailed it really really
well.
I don't believe that there'sbeen gross mismanagement of the
prior bonds.
I think that there's anincredible commitment that we've
seen from members both of theformer school boards and of
staff.
I am sure that there have beentimes where the work was not up

(25:36):
to the standard that I wouldexpect or we would expect today.
We just were actually redoingthe Burbank High School pool,
and solid utilities were notproperly buried at their proper
depth and instead were rightbelow the concrete finish, and
so what was going to be aproject focused on one matter
became a project that had toalso focus on utility

(25:57):
infrastructure improvements, andso what we're finding as we go
into the utilities is that someof these campuses that are 80,
90, 100 years old have utilitiesthat are just as old, and so we
are having to investsignificantly in the replacement
and modernization of theutility infrastructure.
As far as though an indictmentabout the fact that we have

(26:20):
roofs that need replacement.
As you just said, usually acommercial roof has between a 20
and 30 year expected life, andhvac unit is between 15 and 20
year usable life, and so thefact that these prior bonds were
invested immediately for thebenefit of our students and
staff back in 1997, makes sensethat now here we are, almost 30

(26:42):
years later, needing to replacethose exact same units and those
same roofing systems.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Okay, thank you, joel .
Go ahead and please respond.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Mr Cantwell for admitting that there has been
mismanagement.
Now, your words were no grossmismanagement and I take that to
an acknowledgement of themismanagement, and there
certainly has been mismanagement.
So we're on the same page there.
Now.
You talked about HVAC, heating,venting, ventilation and air

(27:16):
conditioning and roofing.
Now we're told over and over byPonser, kamkar and Weisberg
that these are priorities.
But when Perkins-Eastman lookedat the situation, these items
don't even appear on the top 10list.
And during that presentation,perkins-eastman said our schools

(27:38):
are in good shape.
We are lucky.
Our schools are safe.
They are not seismicallydangerous for our students and
if they were, you wouldn't allowour students to go there.
They are, in fact, safe school.
Uh, perkins Eastman, I forgotwhat I was going to say.

(28:02):
The main point is oh, Iremember you said at that
meeting, when Perkins Eastman'sgave gave their speech, you said
we are not obligated to followPerkins Eastman, you can do what
you want with the money.
And that is scary to me becausewe had.
We have people that want todevelop housing and that want to
want to have free kindergartenand do all kinds of things that

(28:23):
are outside the scope of whatyou're calling for, but the
specific language of this bondallows you to do what you want
essentially with this money.

Speaker 1 (28:32):
Thank, you Okay?
Uh, Andy, you have one minuteto respond.

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Joel, you and I don't always agree, but when we have
our private conversations thatothers aren't privy to and the
cameras aren't running, I alwaysappreciate that.
You are cordial, you arerespectful, you hear me out.
I would ask for that samedecency now.
I believe it's inappropriate toput words into my mouth or to
make accusations or claims ofthings I didn't say.

(28:59):
Me saying that I am not awareof any gross mismanagement of
prior funds is in no way anadmission that there was some
mismanagement of funds, you know.
I think that we both need tomake sure that we're listening
and allowing our points to standon their own, without trying to
imply or outright state thingsthat just are factually

(29:19):
inaccurate.
Trying to imply or outrightstate things that just are
factually inaccurate.
With regard to the types ofprojects that Perkins Eastman
identified, the roofreplacements were priority 1B.
1b because they consideredsafety to be 1A and they

(29:41):
considered the roof replacementsin the category 1B.
1b because they consideredsafety to be 1A and they
considered the roof replacementsin the Category 1B.
Category 1 was the top prioritycategory.
So I don't know where you haveidentified a list of 10 projects
that you don't believe roofingis a part of.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Okay thank you, Joel.
You have one minute to respond.

Speaker 2 (29:58):
Well, mr Cantwell, it would have been nice if you
brought the 500 and some oddpage Perkins Eastman report with
you to cite the facts, becauseI read the report and you know
this is the type of dialoguethat we have at the city council
.
When I'm standing at the podium, when I say something in a
stern voice or a definitivevoice that I'm sure about, I'm

(30:19):
instantly attacked, and that'skind of a little bit what we got
, what I just witnessed from youright now.
I heard you say grossmismanagement.
So let's just ask you thequestion, let's have a dialogue
has there been mismanagement inthe past?
It's a yes or no, and I knowyou folks don't like to answer
yes or no questions because Istill haven't got the answer to

(30:40):
this and I put it to you now IsMeasure ABC, a new tax, yes or
no?

Speaker 1 (30:48):
Okay, thank you, joel , and this next question is for
you, a little longer question,but hopefully you can get this
out.
The district is facing somereal financial challenges due to
declining enrollment and themethods that the state uses to
fund districts like Burbank.
In addition, there was anaccounting error that caused the

(31:09):
Board of Education to bring ina forensic accountant to provide
guidance in the areas ofbusiness and financial
management.
A report that was presented tothe board and the community at
large made over 30recommendations in the areas of
organizational structure andinternal controls.
Do you believe that theseissues need to be addressed in

(31:32):
order to gain support for thebond from the voters?
Can you repeat the questionBasically?
Let me try to summarize it foryou.
Because of the enrollment andwhat, okay.
Because of the enrollment andthe way the state funds the
schools, okay.
And then we had the $10,000.

(31:53):
I got it.
I'm sure you're.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
I can't address what Mr Hill did or didn't do.
I knew Mr Hill was no good andI talked about it for several
years.
And what did they do?
They mismanaged Hill.
They gave him a new contractbefore it expired and they gave
him a raise on his new contractand then a short time later they

(32:18):
fired him.
And as far as I know, I readhis contract.
But as far as I know, there wassome malfeasance going on.
There was moral, there waspossible moral turpitude going
on, and I don't know if it wasexplored or not, but he got away
with $300,000.
And that's the type of moneythat is serious money and could

(32:38):
have helped our kids.
And the way it's designed sooften is in personnel matters.
They say we can't talk about it, and they've designed it in
such a way where we never get tothe bottom of it.
Now I don't know if you'venoticed, but there is thousands
of apartments being constructedhere in Burbank and I can
promise you that there will besome students, some children

(33:01):
living in those apartments andthe enrollment here in the
district will tend to go up andwe will get more money.
And this is a timingmanipulation, trickery, because
they want to double dip.
They want to get the bond moneyand then they're going to get
the money from these newstudents that are coming here as
well.
Times change.
We've been around, mr Sherwood.

(33:22):
We know things come back aroundagain.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Great.
Thank you, andy.
Are you okay with the questionor do you want to repeat any
part of it?
That was a long question.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I'm sorry about that.
It was a good question and Joelbrings up many points that to
me, while important, seemed abit tangential to the actual
question.
And so, to try to honor thisspace and this process, this
dialogue, I'm going to try torespond, craig, to your comments
, although, joel, there's manythat I would love to engage with
that you just brought up,declining enrollment.

(33:51):
It is true that California doesnot fund public education
adequately.
However, it does have a methodthat creates winners and losers.
Um, and Burbank unified is aloser in the California uh
funding model, local controlfunding formula.
Um, the reason for that isbecause of our demographics.
Um, we do not, um have the umvery high net worth, uh, um,

(34:18):
individuals and uh anddemographics that you might see
in some neighboring districts.
Nor do we have the poverty orthe percentage of students who
meet low income criteria byfederal guidelines, and so, as
board member Iconian says, weare perfectly middle class and
because of that we do notreceive the same funding as, say
, our neighboring district inGlendale that receives nearly 20

(34:40):
percent more per child thanBurbank Unified.
If you look at LA Unified, theyreceive nearly 60% more funding
per child.
And now what really compoundsthe problem is when you face
declining enrollment.
Part of the study that, joel,you mentioned that Perkins
Eastman was a facility masterplan that included an enrollment
analysis.

(35:01):
They worked directly with thecity of Burbank.
I've actually had multiplecalls I just had one about two
weeks ago on the majordevelopment plans in the city
and they took into account thedevelopment, both those which
are permitted, those in thepermitting process and those
according to the master plan forthe city.

(35:22):
And what they project is thatby 2032, we will still have
approximately 15% enrollmentdecline from where we are today,
even accounting for thatdevelopment.
If the development does notcome through in the amount that
we anticipate, then thatenrollment decline will be more
precipitous and with that goessignificant state funding.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
Okay, joel, you have one minute to respond.

Speaker 2 (35:50):
You know, Mr Cantwell , when I have less income, when
I have less money, I spend lessand I run a smaller operation.
Maybe I can't afford an extracar I have to cut back and
that's what you and youradministration is unwilling to

(36:10):
do.
If you have shrinkingenrollment I think at one of
your schools you only have 300students why don't you close the
district headquarters, sell itand move over to that empty
school?
Or why don't you consider, uh,running a smaller district with
less schools and less employees?
Because this is what regularfolks do.

(36:33):
We have to cut back.
But this administration,including the five board members
well, four, because one quit inthe middle of who knows what
are lost.
They're unwilling to changetheir business model.
And you have to spend less whenyou have less.

(36:54):
It's called living within yourmeans.
There's no exceptions.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
You can't keep coming to us for money, so we've got
to stop you right there.
That's your one minute.
Andy, go ahead.
You've got your one minute.

Speaker 3 (37:06):
Yeah, I've been a school administrator for more
than a decade now.
I am tremendously honored atthe opportunity to serve in our
local schools.
The toughest day of the yearfor me is March 15th.
That's the day in which we needto notify teachers that they
may be at risk of losing a job.
And this past year was one ofthe toughest of my decade plus

(37:27):
career because we did lay offmany teachers.
We eliminated 29 full-timeequivalent positions in the
teacher workforce.
That meant that we had uh manyteachers who worked for us last
year who were not able to returnto us this year.
Now, fortunately, we were ableto eliminate a number of the
positions through attrition, andso we just uh didn't hire back

(37:50):
those who retired or resignedfor uh.
Unfortunately, some of thoseresigned to go to other school
districts that pay better, um,but we were able to mitigate
some of those uh reductionsthrough attrition.
And others were the mostdifficult conversations that we
have as administrators having tolet a teacher who's tirelessly
poured into their classroom,into their students, into this
community.
You know that we just can'tafford to keep them.

(38:11):
So the idea that we are nothaving those conversations or
the idea that we are not livingwithin our means is just
patently false, and it isdifficult to hear, when I've
already explained this to you,joel, on the phone, that we had
a workforce reduction this pastyear that far exceeded what was
necessary, simply due todeclining enrollment.

Speaker 1 (38:33):
Okay, and that's the time right there.
Let me get to our next question, and Andy, you're first, and
this will be a much shorterquestion.
Okay, what will happen if thecampaign for the bond fails?
What should we do next for ourfacilities, which is a lot
shorter.

Speaker 3 (38:52):
That is a short question but obviously a
tremendously important one.
You know California hasidentified three funding
mechanisms for school facilities.
The first one is throughdeveloper fees or growth dollars
.
This is when a new apartmentbuilding comes into the
community and a developer pays adevelopment fee to the school

(39:16):
district to help the district beable to have facility space
available for the kids that maycome through that development.
That brings into the districtright now roughly a million
dollars a year, and those fundshave significant limitations
around the way they can be used.
They only can be used at schoolsites that have growth.
The second means of fundingschool facilities is through

(39:40):
state aid and, as we alreadydiscussed, burbank is eligible
for state aid nearly $40 million.
However, it's only eligible ifwe have a local match.
The third means that Californialegislatures have set up to
support the funding of schoolcapital projects is through the

(40:00):
issuance of bonds, and so we arehopeful that Measure ABC will
pass this year.
If it doesn't, I think whatwe're gonna have to do is look
really hard within ourselves toidentify where we have the
disconnect with the community,and we're gonna have to listen
better to the community to knowhow, in 2026, we'd go back out

(40:21):
to seek their support.
But there's no way around thereality that California funds
school facilities through localballot measures.

Speaker 1 (40:31):
Okay, thank you, Joel .
You've got two minutes.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, you know, mr Cantwell, we've got buildings
coming up now being developedhere in Burbank, being built as
we speak, that are in thehundreds of thousands of square
feet and represent a huge amountof potential income for our
kids.
It was me who suggested youhire somebody who knows how to
count, because when thedeveloper comes to you and says,

(40:53):
you know he doesn't want tocount the hallways, he doesn't
want to count the storage room,he doesn't want to count the
gymnasium, you know you've gotto know how to count and get
your money that you're entitledto.
And you did not listen to me onthat idea.
Now some people say Sloshman,he goes to the podium.
All he does is complain Wrong.

(41:13):
In the five minutes that I haveat the podium I cannot begin to
say what needs to be said.
And this current group ofpeople have worked to eliminate
public comment.
You eliminated a whole periodof public comment and nobody
said anything.
Now I've given you dozens notonly you Hill, debbie Cook,

(41:40):
karamo.
I've met with you folks andgiven you dozens of ideas to
raise funds.
So for you to come here and saythat this is your only way is
very disingenuous.
The ideas that I've put forwardare valid ideas, easy ideas to
raise funds for our students.
I've suggested do thingsdifferently.

(42:00):
For example, film LA.
You're giving away the bulk ofthe money to film LA.
We can handle that.
Our facilities are in demand.
So don't tell me I haven't thatthis is the only way.
There's a lot of other ways toraise money and I hope this
thing fails and let's exploresome of those other ideas
together.
I'm at your service to help you.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Andy, you have one minute to respond.
Joel, I know that you desire tobe of service to this community
, and so I appreciate youwilling to make yourself
available Again.
I am confident that thiscommunity supports public
education.
They support the magic thattakes place in our classrooms.

(42:45):
You referenced earlier thatteachers only give students one
minute of attention.
I don't know what district youvisited, but it was not Burbank.
That is not the case with ourteachers, and so I am confident,
and I am hopeful, that we willsee Measure ABC pass next month
and that this entire communityis going to be able to take
great pride not just in what'staking place in the classrooms,
but in the actual learningspaces, the learning
environments that our studentsenter into every day, and so, if

(43:08):
it does not, we are going to belistening to the community to
understand how we better meetthose needs.
But right now, my focus is onthe reality that this community
has shown tremendous support forBurbank Unified, and I trust
that this community, withunderstanding what's at stake,
is going to continue to supportpublic education.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
Okay, joel, you have here one minute to respond.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
Mr Cantwell, it's simple math.
If you have a 45-minute periodand 30 kids, it's a little over
a minute per kid.
That's how much individualizedattention you get.
I'm saying there's a better wayto do it.
You want to stick your head inthe sand and not be willing to
change.
That's fine.
Look what happened to the taxiindustry.

(43:53):
A better way come along Uberand Lyft, and now we don't have
the dirty, smelly taxis oldpolice cars, that type of thing.
A better way came along, andnow we don't have the dirty,
smelly taxis, old police cars,that type of thing.
A better way came along, andyou know, look at Kodak cameras.
Most people don't even knowwhat film is anymore.
A better way came along Rotarydial phones.
A better way came along and weadapted.

(44:15):
And AI as a form of teaching ishere, and that's what we should
be embracing.
You can't even get your handsaround a.
And AI as a form of teaching ishere, and that's what we should
be embracing.
You can't even get your handsaround a cell phone policy.
You're waiting for the state ofCalifornia to mandate it.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
And that's something we've been asking you for for
years.
Okay, moving on now.
Next, joel, you're going tostart off on this one.
Should the bond campaign besuccessful, the Board of
Education is required by law toappoint an independent citizens
oversight committee to ensurethat the funds are being spent
on projects that are listed inthe bond text.

(44:52):
What do you think the processshould be used to appoint these
committee members in thisimportant capacity?

Speaker 2 (45:02):
Well, look, this whole line, Mr Sherwood, is a
shim-sham.
If they get the money, they may, they'll do what they want with
it and they'll figure out waysto do it.
For example, they say it can'tbe used for salaries, but if

(45:24):
they want to hire somebody toadminister the bond money and
create a new salary, that isallowed.
So don't believe what they'retelling you.
And the appointments thatthey're going to make are people
that think the way they think.
That's just how it is.
They're not going to appoint aguy, like you know, who

(45:45):
disagrees with them.
It's going to be people thatthey like up-and-comers, people
who you know want to serve.
And if you attended thesemeetings, Mr Sherwood, it's
pre-functory what they do.
There's little discussion.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Okay, andy, you go do there's.
Little discussion.
Okay, andy, you go ahead.
You got two minutes.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Joel, I heard you say a moment ago that you'll be of
service to this district and Ithink I just heard you volunteer
to serve on the oversightcommittee, so I hope you will
put your name in the applicationprocess if the bond does pass.
Just to make sure the communityunderstands what we call the
SFOC, the school facilityoversight committee has a really

(46:27):
important statutory purpose,meaning that enshrined in law.
The existence of an SFOC is toensure the proper expenditure of
funds.
The proper expenditure of fundsboth in terms of ensuring that
funds are not mismanaged, thatwe're not paying inappropriately

(46:47):
for a certain task, as well asto ensure that those tasks are
according to the bond language.
And so part of their work isactually also to work with a
third party, independent auditorwho audits our books.
They audit, they do aperformance audit as well as a
financial audit of the facilitybond dollars.

(47:08):
That audit firm reports directlyto the SFOC.
They do not report that firstto the board, they report to the

(47:32):
SFOC and then the SFOC isresponsible for providing and
creating a report to thecommunity are confident that the
funds remain expended again,both on permissible uses and
effectively bid, competitivelybid projects.
The Oversight Committee againhas requirements around the
minimum number of individualswho can serve on it.

(47:53):
It's minimum five and they haveto make up certain stakeholder
groups.
One example is a taxpayeradvocacy group like Howard
Jarvis, someone representingthat group.
Another would be aparent-teacher association and
another would be an individualwho is active in an organization
supporting seniors.

(48:15):
And so again, a cross-sectionof the community, not just an
echo chamber, not just staff,but rather a true cross -section
of this community that cometogether to ensure the proper
expenditure of funds.

Speaker 1 (48:25):

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Mr Cantwell, you heard wrong.
I did not volunteer.
I don't appreciate your humor,although I would be qualified
because you know, I'm a licensedgeneral contractor a former
licensed general contractor withover 40 years of experience and
I also held a real estatelicense at one time.
I was a realtor at one time andI developed a number of

(48:51):
properties here in Burbank andI'm proud of the quality that I
built.
Now let's go back to thePerkins Eastman report, which
contained hundreds of pages ofdesign standards.
These are intended to usequality, approved, safety, safe
materials in our buildings.
So there's no work for thedesign review committee or

(49:13):
whatever committee you'recalling it, this bond review
committee to approve that typeof thing.
Whatever you want to spend themoney on, they're going to
approve it, because when youhave $458 million and your
charge is to spend the money bygolly, you're going to spend it.

Speaker 1 (49:29):
Okay, andy, you have one minute to respond.

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Joel, I'm going to hold out hope that you will
consider serving the communityon the committee.
However, I hear you notinterested in that currently.
We'll see.
We'll see what the next fewmonths hold.
What I can say is that we havebeen fortunate to have
individuals like you withincredible backgrounds, and so,
while the statute, the state law, requires those five

(49:56):
individuals I just mentioned, tomy knowledge the district has
never run a committee of onlyfive individuals.
We want more ideas, we wantmore experience, background,
skill sets in that room.
As we hold these publicmeetings, they are Brown Act
agendized meetings that theentire community is welcome to
attend.
It sounds like you've attendedin the past, although I don't

(50:18):
believe, since I've been in thedistrict, that I've seen you at
the meetings, but they areavailable to the community.
But we do get incredibleexperts in their fields, just as
you expressed your background,joel, and so we're able to have
people who might have a skillset beyond what an individual
within the district has in aspecialized niche, and they're
able to help us have forethoughtinto knowing the types of

(50:39):
questions to ask and the answersto seek.
So I hope you'll consider thecommittee, but I hope this
community will consider thecommittee also.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Okay, very good, andy .
This next question is going toyou.
As a planning tool, the Boardof Education paid Perkins
Eastman to prepare a needsassessment.
The report is over 500 pagesand provides a prioritized
framework for projects that thebond can fund.
The document divides theprojects into three areas.

(51:12):
They are infrastructure,learning environments and
enhanced program supports.
How will decisions be made tomove forward with updates and
improvements based on thisframework?
Is one area more important thananother?

Speaker 3 (51:28):
Yeah, craig, that study that you mentioned and
that Joel has brought up a fewtimes, perkins Eastman undertook
nearly a year-long process todevelop this facility master
plan.
Nearly a year-long process todevelop this facility master
plan.
Multiple board meetingpresentations, multiple
presentations to theAdministrative Affairs
Governance Committee.
They met with every site team,walked the sites.

(51:53):
They really did a thoroughneeds assessment and, beyond
just a needs assessment, lookedat the types of things, joel,
that you bring up of, not justwhat was this educational space
designed to be 50 years ago whenit was built, but what does it
need to be going forward.
And so they put forward a planof priority needs.

(52:14):
It totals $1.1 billion inpresent day dollars.
If we actually use theirprojections for factoring in
inflation, then during theperiod in which measure ABC bond
funds would be available, it'sactually about $1.6 billion of
need.
So in a perfect world we wouldhave funding sufficient to meet

(52:37):
all of those needs.
We know that we don't, and soit is going to require
prioritization of projects.
We are only going to fund abouta third of those that have been
identified as high needprojects for this community.
The basic priorities are goingto be on safety, on ensuring the

(52:57):
protection of the physicalspace, and that would be
including roof repairs, it'd beaccessibility, and so ensuring
that our buildings, which mayhave met ADA compliance 40 years
ago again, when they were 30years ago, when they were last
updated, are ensuring thatthey're coming to code now so
that we have educational spacesthat truly are accessible for

(53:19):
all of our students.
And so, again, when we look atsafety, when we look at
maintaining the physical plant,physical structure, as well as
ensuring equitable access to ourspaces, those are the
priorities.

Speaker 1 (53:31):
Okay, joel, you'll have two minutes.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
Mr Cantwell, I did attend the Perkins-Eastman's
meetings.
I don't recall you being atevery meeting, but I can tell
you what Perkins Eastman's didbecause I attended.
They went around the room andthey asked the various moms what
would you want?
And some of them said thingslike well, we'd like to have a

(53:57):
room filled with sofas and nicefurniture where kids can go to
decompress, and lo and beholdwhen Perkins Eastman's comes out
.
That's the type of thing thatis in the report.
Now, that is not a need.
In my definition, that is awant, and you've confused the

(54:19):
two things.
This is a money grab.
That's what this bond is.
You want to cover the fact thatthe administration is taking
the bulk of the money on a perperson basis.
Obviously, you're a feweradministrators than you do
teachers, but you're very wellpaid and that's where the money

(54:40):
goes.
And when you do silly things, Igive our new superintendent a
$50,000 raise over.
The last guy on his first dayhas shown no leadership.
$50,000 plus another $10,000 todo anything he wants with, as
long as it's for education, forhis education and I use this

(55:03):
example If he wants to go toHawaii and stick his feet in the
sand and read a book on how tobe a better manager, that
qualifies to spend the $10,000.
And that's the type ofmismanagement this district has
displayed.
And when I go to the podium andask about it, you take turns
ridiculing me not you personally, the other five and you've

(55:27):
witnessed it and you sit insilence.
The last time I spoke for fiveminutes and it was about 13 and
a half minutes of people takingturn ridiculing me, never
answering the questions that Iasked.
And when they do answer aquestion, it's a question that I
did not ask.
There is a lack of transparencygoing on here.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
And that's the problem for your district, Joel
we got to stop there, Andy yougot one minute to respond, joel.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
you said many things just now, nearly all of which I
disagree with.
You spent a little bit over twominutes and I don't have quite
that much time and I think itmay require more to engage in
each of those individual topics.
The question, I believe, if Irecall correctly, was on the
Perkins-Eastman Master Plan, andso I'm going to focus my
response only on that.
First of all, the meeting youdescribed I was present at.

(56:18):
I was fortunate to serve as thedistrict administrator on the
Administrative Affairs Committee.
I find the way that you refer toit as a group of moms to be
pejorative.
I think that was factuallyinaccurate.
There was a cross-section ofgenders as well as a
cross-section of highly skilledindividuals coming from a

(56:39):
variety of perspectives.
I also would never denigrate orsuggest that if it were a group
of moms, that they don't havehighly important opinions to
give us on what the educationaladequacy requirements would be
for a classroom.
But that's not what was in theroom.
But that's not what was in theroom.
That was another example of across-section of this community

(57:02):
coming together to talk aboutwhat the educational spaces need
to be.

Speaker 1 (57:06):

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Well, you know, that's what you folks do.
When I say something generallike that is you hone in and
attack Right.
Of course it wasn't all moms.
Of course there was across-section of people to be
respected.
There were some moms there,there were some PTA participants

(57:29):
there, so we're both correct.
I'm not trying to denigrateanybody.
The point of this thing is,which you want to skip over, is
they wanted a room full offurniture for kids to go and sit
down and that's all great, warmand fuzzy type of thing.
I'm a tough love kind of guy.
I have four children.
I have standards and certainexpectations for my children.

(57:51):
Kids can have a hard day.
I'm sympathetic to that.
But we also have to rememberwe're here to educate the kids
and you're trying to spreadyourself too thin and you're
asking to do it with our wallets.
You're reaching in and takingfood off our table for all these
things that you want to do.
You talked about a safetycomponent.

(58:12):
Right now, specificallyidentify what school is not safe
.
Where are we putting kids thatare not safe?
I yield to you.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Okay, well, we can get into that later, but that's
not where we're going.
We have our next question nowand, joel, you're going to start
off with this one.
This is more of a cause andeffect, I guess you would call
it.
There are many Burbank votersthat are renters.
If the bond gets 55% of thevotes and voters say yes to the

(58:44):
bond, do you feel it willincrease the?
It will cause landlords toincrease rents and the average
cost to the individualhomeowners, especially those on
a fixed income.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Okay, it's a two-part question.
I'll answer the second partfirst.
If you are a property owner,you are going to feel this.
It's going to hit you in thepocketbook, it's going to affect
you.
It's going to take more moneyfrom your savings or make you
work more hours to cover thesepayments.
That's a fact.

(59:17):
Now, the other part of yourquestion had to do with renters,
and we have a state law thatcaps the amount of rent that a
property owner can pass on to arenter.
And that's really, reallyproblematic if you own rental
units in Burbank and areproviding that service, because

(59:38):
there's no limit on what HomeDepot can charge for a water
heater, there's no limit on whatlabor is to install that water
heater.
And this is just an example.
If you need a roof, which couldbe, or you have a gardener or
whatever it is, your costs areescalating.
But the state has capped yourrents.
So this is going to decimateproperty owners.
They know it.

(01:00:00):
Now, if you have a mom and popwho's been relaxed and hasn't
raised your rent in a few years,they're going to be forced to
do it because our water ratesare doubling and tripling.
If you have, you got a waterbill or an electric bill lately.
Same type of thing.
I said you have two minutes orone minute you have two minutes,
two minutes, thank you, so youknow you're no different from us

(01:00:22):
, mr Sherwood.
You feel it, you see it in theutility bills, and property
owners have to pass this on tothe tenants.
So the answer is yes, to theextent that they can.
But you know it's going todrive them into bankruptcy too.
And if you are a merchant heredoing business, your costs are
going to increase, and if youhave a triple net lease, these

(01:00:44):
costs are passed on to you.
So you know it's bad foreverybody, it's not just one or
two groups of people, it's.
It hurts everybody, and ithurts the people who can least
afford pay it okay, and've gottwo minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
Craig, I'm the numbers guy for the district and
I'm told that usually when Istart talking, eyes glaze over
because people don't alwaysenjoy hearing the numbers, and
so I appreciate that we've had arobust conversation for more
than a half hour before we'veactually really dived into what
the numbers are, but I thinkthis is the right question to do

(01:01:20):
that.
In 2013, this communitysupported measure S uh.
That uh allowed for a umassessed tax rate of $55 and 18
cents per a hundred thousanddollars of valuation of property
.
What the board has done withmeasure ABC is ask the community
to recommit to that sameassessment that's already in

(01:01:42):
place.
The 1997 bonds will soon bepaid off and so, as we have more
of that tax rate paying off2013, what the school board has
done is ask for the community torecommit, extend the current
existing tax rate.
We're not talking about addingto that rate, it's returning it

(01:02:04):
to the 2013 rate of $55.18.
And so let's also make sure weunderstand assessed valuation,
because that can be a trickyconcept.
California property tax assessedvaluation is capped based on
primarily the fair market valueat the time of acquisition.
So if I purchased my house 20years ago for half a million

(01:02:25):
dollars, that home in Burbanktoday is probably close to $1.5
million, but the actual assessedvaluation is going to be
somewhere in the ballpark of$700,000.
So, again, a home that actuallyhas a fair market value of $1.5
million has an assessedvaluation of $700,000.
Currently, a property ownerunder that situation would be

(01:02:46):
paying about $350 a year tosupport our local schools.
The only taxes that go directlytoward local schools is, in the
immediate term, potentiallyraise it by about $40 to bring
us to that 55-18 rate and holdit steady into the future.

(01:03:08):
And so, again, what we'retalking about is a rate
extension that's been in placesince 2013.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Okay, Julie, you have one minute to respond.
Well, boy.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
there's a lot to respond there, Mr Sherwood.
First of all, 39% of thestate's budget was to education.
That's indisputable.
Whether we're getting our fairshake or not is another
conversation.
That's not what this is about.
We pay taxes.
I'm happy to pay my taxes, butI don't want to pay them over

(01:03:41):
and over again.
When I've already paid them onetime, there has to be something
left for me to save and pass onto my children.
I think about these things andI think about what I could do
with the money that you'retaking from me, because I could
take that money and invest itand I will hopefully get some
return and I will have more togive.

(01:04:03):
I care about these thingsbecause I have children with
special needs and they are goingto need care in the future.
Maybe that's part of why I'm sopassionate about this, because
I want people to be able to helptheir children.
I'm sending two kids intocollege right now and I'm paying
for it because I don't want toburden them with the debt of

(01:04:23):
college.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
Now, Joel, that's your one minute.
Andy, you have one minute torespond.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Well, Joel, I think that you just mentioned
something that you havementioned previously to me as
well your pride in your children, and you've mentioned many
times that their products atBurbank Unified.
I am happy for you, for theirsuccesses, and really, what
we're trying to say is that theincredible academic rigor and

(01:04:51):
quality of education that theyreceived over the past couple of
decades is what we desire forthis community to all be
beneficiaries of not just thosewho have the financial resources
to pass inheritance to theirchildren, but anyone who's
fortunate enough to be able tohave their children in this
community that they can have anexemplary education.
I talked about this when I gavemy introduction, that public

(01:05:12):
education is the single greatestway in which we can better a
community.
It's a single grace way toprovide financial mobility to uh
?
Um individuals, and so, uh,what we're asking for is the
community support to allow us tobe able to ensure that we have?
Uh school facilities that donot have re?
Uh leaking roofs, that do nothave malfunctioning air

(01:05:34):
conditioning, that do not haveutilities that were installed in
the forties uh, but rather haveacademic spaces appropriate for
the instruction.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
Okay, that's your one minute.
Okay, let's move on.
Okay, so, andy, it goes to youfirst.
How are deferred maintenancedollars generated to make needed
repairs?
Do they come from the generalfund dollars?
And, if so, would not havingthese bond dollars affect the
educational programs in ourschools?

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
that's a really good question as well.
Craig, I know you've done yourhomework or you talked to some
good people who understand thevarious funds for education.
So we talk often about a generalfund in education accounting
speak, that's fund one.
That is the $220 million budgetthat you referenced a few

(01:06:27):
moments ago, joel.
We also have a separate fundthat the state requires us to
maintain, called a deferredmaintenance fund.
That's our fund 14.
So anyone who is reallyinterested in numbers, I
encourage you to go to ourSeptember 5th board meeting
where we presented our unauditedactuals, that's the year-end
financial statement for ouryear-end ending on June 30 of 24

(01:06:48):
, prior to it going to theauditors for a final audit.
You would there see that fund14 did not receive any revenue
this year and that our remainingbalance is about $200,000.
And so total funding that wehave available for deferred
maintenance just under a quartermillion, with no funding source
.
Previously it was required thatthere be a contribution coming

(01:07:12):
from the general fund.
The state changed that law afew years ago and so there is no
funding mechanism to uh to ummaintain that deferred
maintenance fund okay, joel, youhave two minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
Yeah, just to quickly respond.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Don't put words in my mouth because my children did
not receive an exemplaryeducation.
Okay, that's a fact.
And if you look at the peskystate testing that we, the state
asks of us to measure how ourkids are doing, all of our kids,
except the parents, exceptcertain kids, are failing.

(01:07:48):
They have a less than 50% passrate across all metrics.
So don't say that you're givingout exemplary educations.
You're not.
You're paying your teacherslike they should be, but there's
no correlation between how ourkids do in grades and how the
teachers get paid.
Can you imagine having a jobwhere your performance has

(01:08:08):
nothing to do with your pay?
That's what we have right now,essentially.
So that's one thing.
You never answered this question.
This is the third time I'veasked you this question and the
people watching this, mrCantwell, are smarter than this.
You can sing and dance skirtthe question, but this question
needs to be answered somedaysomehow.

(01:08:30):
Is Measure ABC, a new tax, yesor no?
No?
And the real problem in all ofthis, all the time we're
spending, mr sherwood, goes downto accountability and
transparency.
Why won't you answer this yes orno question and answer the
question?
I forgot what the first partwas, but deferred maintenance

(01:08:51):
deferred maintenance.
Deferred maintenance Okay, youknow.
Look, what you should do istake a percentage of your budget
, of your general fund, and saywe're going to dedicate, let's
say, 10%.
That's what you should do.
Instead, you gave it all awayto the unions for salaries you
included.
So that's the problem we havehere is a weak administration

(01:09:13):
who doesn't have foresight tosay, hey, let's put aside a
portion of our pie, a portion ofour money for the future.
We know things are going toneed to be repaired.
Stop coming to us and asking usto bail you out for your poor
decisions.
That's all this is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Okay, andy, you've got two minutes to respond.
Are you excited to questionokay, andy, you've got two
minutes to respond or your sideof the question?

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
um, well again, a lot , a lot that you just gave me to
think about, joel.
Uh, very little of it.
Regarding deferred maintenance,um, I think, though, at the
core, what I I'd like to respondto is, um, the I'll answer that
question before my minutes's upbut you said some pretty

(01:09:55):
offensive things yet again aboutour teacher workforce.
I do believe that we areproviding an exceptional
education.
The percentages that you justquoted are completely incorrect.
We have consistently highachievement in this district.
I actually recently received aletter to the paper in Pastina,

(01:10:17):
where they are going for aparcel tax, and actually what
the newspaper article said waslook at our neighbors in Burbank
.
They're able to have twice theacademic success on half the
revenue.
It was a little bit of anexaggeration the way they worded
it.
On half the revenue.
It was a little bit of anexaggeration the way they worded
it, but it was nonethelessappreciated that they
acknowledged just how strong andsuccessful our district is able

(01:10:39):
to be when our funding is oneof the lowest in the county.
88 school districts in thecounty you're just looking at on
a per pupil basis, we're in thebottom 10%, bottom 10% in LA
County for school funding.
Now, if you add on top of that,if you look at our bond measure
, the rate that is going to beasked for the community to
support yet again an extensionof an existing rate is the

(01:11:02):
seventh lowest out of 48 schooldistricts unified districts that
have bonds currently in place.
So we're in the bottom 10% foroverall funding per pupil.
We're in the bottom 15% forcommunities in LA County that
have a bond a facility bond onthe actual tax rate being
assessed on homeowners.

Speaker 1 (01:11:22):
Okay, joel, you have one minute to respond, mr.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Cantwell, forgive me but I'm not going to believe
what you say.
I'm going to go by what I readin the disclosure, in the sample
ballot and the educationalthings.
Here's my tax bill, and my taxbill has a tax rate of 0.436.
It's roughly about $44 per$100,000.
According to the documents,it's going to increase to $55.

(01:11:50):
Now that's a huge difference.
It's like 25 increase to $55.
Now that's a huge difference.
It's like 25%, 30% increase.
So stop saying that our taxesaren't going up.
Our taxes in black and whiteare going up.
Now you can spin, say we don'tknow the future and all these
types of things, but I'm goingby what's in black and white and

(01:12:12):
it's going to go for me andthis is the same rate for
everybody, from $44 to $55.
And when you times that times30 years, it becomes a huge
amount of money and it'ssomething that all of us should
be concerned with.
The district wants to glossover it and I still haven't got

(01:12:32):
that yes or no answer which youpromised.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
Okay, andy, you have one minute to finish here.

Speaker 3 (01:12:38):
Joel I'm not sure how much more direct I can be what
we are asking the community tosupport on November 5th, or for
those who've already receivedtheir mail-in ballots I see,
joel, you have your I votedsticker, so those ballots, if
you've not yet received them,should be in the mail any day
this week.
We are asking the community tostep up for education and to
approve an extension of the ratethat was approved in 2013.

(01:13:01):
Now we take seriously theresponsibility to steward these
taxpayer dollars well, and so,even though the community
supported the $55.18 rate, wehave only had one year in which
we were even close to that rate.
Every other year since 2013, wehave been able to stay well
below even $50.
The average, I believe, hasbeen right about $49 over the

(01:13:24):
past 11 years.
One of the ways we were able todo that was because we
refinanced some of our debt in2020.
To do that was because werefinanced some of our debt in
2020.
It was before I came to thedistrict that was expert
leadership of the districtadministration at the time to
refinance when we had rates solow and we were able to save
taxpayer dollars, and so anindependent analysis and
including the ballot materials,is that this will have an

(01:13:46):
average annual cost of $41 belowthe current rate that you are
experiencing.
$41 will be the average costover the life of the bond.

Speaker 1 (01:13:53):
Okay, we're getting it up there.
Last question yes, we've gottento that point.
Finally, we get to the lastquestion here and, joel, you can
start off with this.
Appendix C on the bond textstates that the best estimate of
the total debt service thatwould be required to be paid is
over $1 billion.

(01:14:14):
Do you know how this estimatewas created?
And it would probably not bepaid off until 2060.
So your comments towards that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:25):
Yeah, well, it's scary because I'm not going to
be alive, but my children willbe and I don't want to burden
them with this debt and it isscary to me to make everything
in Burbank more expensive forthem to service this debt.
In its most simplistic terms,if it's $1.1 billion and we have

(01:14:45):
110,000 citizens, that's$10,000 for every citizen.
But if you have a mom and a dadand a few kids, that's $40,000.
Now this money, mr Sherwood,has to come from somewhere.
It has to be paid back and it'sgonna.
So the answer to this thing isvote no.
And then you send a message tothe school district to live

(01:15:06):
within your mean and some ofthese things that I've talked
about earlier of putting apercentage aside for the
facilities.
It forces them to do that.
They are not to be believedbecause they told us at the last
parcel tax there's no money forraises.
And then they got three raisesand it's the same type of thing.
Money will come.
But to respond to Mr Cantwell,you know these numbers that

(01:15:31):
you're are are projecting, arepredicated on rosy outlooks, and
I've been in the real estatebusiness I've been in, you know,
paying attention to things fordecades and I can tell you
things don't always go up, theygo down, and you've already we
know you're going to sell thefour hundred and fifty eight
million dollars in bonds thathas to be paid.

(01:15:52):
And what you're not telling thepeople is, if your home value
goes down, you're going to bepaying more and you're telling
people hey, your home values aregoing to keep going up forever.
Let's have this rosy pictureand that's just not how it is.
And, by the way, mr Cantwell,us folks at home we've got air
conditioners that need to befixed from time to time and

(01:16:12):
roofs that need to be fixed fromtime to time, and when my roof
leaks, I go up there with somemastic and I fix it, and if my
air conditioner breaks, I repairit, and that's just how it is.
You have to plan for the futureand this school district is not
to be trusted and hasn'tplanned for the future.
He gave it all the way to theunions and that's what these

(01:16:33):
documents prove, andy, you'vegot your two minutes.

Speaker 3 (01:16:39):
Yeah, so the question was regarding the need to pay
back the debt, the length oftime and some of the underlying
assumptions.
I believe it is true that whatthe intent would be would be a
30-year term on these bonds, andso if the final bond were sold
in 2030, that's how we arrive atthe 2060 end date.

(01:17:00):
That's correct.
The third party that createdthe actuarial assumptions on the
debt payment assumed an annualincrease in assessed valuation
of 3.5%.
If you look at the past decade,this community has actually
been very fortunate toexperience an annual
year-over-year increase justbelow 5% on assessed valuation,

(01:17:23):
and so a very conservative ratewas used.
If we find that, as in years asthe past decade, that we have
increased assessed valuationthat is close to that 5%, then
the assessed rate proportionallygoes down, and so, again, as
home assessed values go up, thatassessed valuation will go far

(01:17:45):
below the $41 that is in thecampaign literature the campaign
literature as far as the needto be proactive and then the
need to respond to the needsthat we've already identified.
Last year, we had significantrains.
I'm sure many of you remembersome of those days where we had
absences in excess of 20% ofstudents because families were

(01:18:07):
feeling like they need to keeptheir children home.
We had 99 roof leaks at onepoint, 99 failures of our
envelope staying secure, andwhat that means is that we have
students, some as young as fouryears old, in TK classes who
were being taught in rooms thathave roofs leaking, windows that

(01:18:30):
are not properly sealed andwater and moisture coming in.
We have an incredible team ofdedicated staff who were up
there in those rains, who wereclearing the causes of blockages
that would cause the water toback back up.
We had a third party that camearound and repaired a number of
those spots of failure, but thereality is that when you have a

(01:18:53):
30-year-old roof, you only canband-aid it for so long before
you need to reinvest in a newone, and so we're at that point
where we need to invest in newroofs and much of the rest of
our infrastructure.
It's now is time that we'reasking the community support.
That's your time.

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Joel, you'll have one minute to respond.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
You know, mr Cantwell , I heard what you just said.
I wonder if you heard what youjust said, because if you have
roof leaks, you talked aboutblockages.
Well, we don't need a new rooffor a blockage of a drain.
You go up on the roof and youclear the blockage and you think
about it in advance.
You got to plan for this, youknow, to keep your pumps clear

(01:19:33):
and your drains clear, otherwiseyou're going to have problems.
And it sounds from what youjust said, that's some of what
we had.
Now this bond is really, reallyproblematic for us, you know,
and you're not going to bepaying for it.
You're going to drive home towherever you're from Valencia
maybe and leave us to deal withthis for 30 years, and you're

(01:19:54):
not going to be paying for it.
You're going to drive home towherever you're from Valencia,
maybe and leave us to deal withthis for 30 years and leave our
children to deal with it for 30years.
And that's who's going to bepaying this thing, suffering
from this thing, because youfolks haven't planned.
It's so simple.
You've taken all the money foryourselves.
You've kind of looted us fromthe inside because you can.

(01:20:15):
You folks have the power tomake the decisions on what the
money is, and I've never heardour five school board members
disagree with you.
They are essentially humanrubber stamps.
Whatever you put before them,they rubber stamp without
discussion in many times andyou're spending great sums of

(01:20:35):
money.
Here's a letter that somebodysent me.
It's, I assume it's, ananonymous letter from one of
your employees and they'rethey're complaining that you're
buying new furniture at districtheadquarters, and it's the
second or third letter I'vegotten on this topic.
And they're saying that you'reusing district funds to pay for
PTA meals.
And they sent me the actualdocument using district funds to
pay for PTA meals.
And they sent me the actualdocument where you did do just

(01:20:57):
that pay for PTA meals.
And this is problematic.
When you're spending my money,my sacred tax dollars are not
being used properly, and I'lljust leave it at that If you're
comfortable with what's going on.
More power to you, mr Cantwell.
I'm not, and I'll say it to youin a tone that's disagreeable.
That's just the way it's goingto be.

Speaker 1 (01:21:18):
Okay, Real quickly.
You went way over your time.
I'm going to give you 30seconds if you want to respond
to anything before we move on.

Speaker 3 (01:21:24):
That's okay.
Thank you, Craig.

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
Okay, that's the end of our questions.
I really appreciate both youcoming in.
I know it's a little bitcontentious at times.
Um, I think it's really good toget the full opinions out there
that everybody can, you know,see that now your ballots should
be getting your ballots eithertoday or this week.

(01:21:46):
So I think it's very importantthat you understand the issues
here and I appreciate both ofyou coming in and respectfully
listening to each other andtalking this over.
We're going to finish up bygiving each side three minutes
to state their case.
So, joel, you are going to gofirst and here's your camera

(01:22:06):
right here, as you know, and youhave three minutes to state
your case, mr.

Speaker 2 (01:22:12):
Sherwood, thank.
You have three minutes to stateyour case, mr Sherwood.
Thank you for hosting this Onceagain.
Mr Cantwell, I always like yourcompany and you know that I
respect you.
This is a big deal.
It really is, and there areramifications that I've talked
about, how it hurts everyindividual, particularly

(01:22:34):
children and people on fixedincomes, people who can't go out
and work and get more money tomake up for this.
I want some accountability fromyou folks and that's not what
I've heard and that's whatpeople tell me, that they may
support a bond, but not with themakeup of this council and the

(01:22:54):
way I'm treated by Weisberg andFerguson.
You know you just make thingsup about me when you don't want
to talk about the facts, youjust go on the attack mode and
that's not the way to resolvethings and get things done.
And people see it.
So I read the papers and I lookaround and I see, you know,

(01:23:18):
lacs and increase in homelessfamilies and agencies are
struggling to help.
Now what does that have to dowith us?
Well, when you make things moreexpensive for people and they
have to survive, they getdesperate and they turn a lot of
times sometimes to crime.
And if you would ask the policechief if you know financial

(01:23:38):
dire financial times increase.
You know you see crime ratesincrease.
I think he'll tell you they do,and that's what you're doing
here.
There's, you know you have thepotential of more homelessness.
It will, that's a fact.
It will create morehomelessness.
I should have asked you thatdirectly.
But that's the type of things,the consequences of what happens

(01:23:59):
down the line.
All of us support our school.
It's not what this is about.
We support our schools.
We want to work for betterschool.
This is about management andthe decisions that you make and
that you're a part of.
Now you said it yourself.
You've only been here a shorttime, but we've got people that
have been here, you know over 12years, and just make the same

(01:24:22):
mistakes over and over again.
So I had asked you about DEIand how much money you spent on
DEI, and this is what you sentme $750,000.
Now I'm not picking on DEI andthis is what you sent me
$750,000.
Now I'm not picking on DEI.
This is a decision that youchose to make to spend $750,000.
And it's really an indictmenton our teaching staff to say

(01:24:44):
that they need DEI training.
I think we have good people.
I don't think we havediscriminatory people working
for us, and if we discover any,they should be fired.
But how many roof leaks couldyou fix with $750,000?
How many air conditioners couldyou repair with $750,000?
And these are the questionsthat people think about.

(01:25:06):
The time for change is now andif this thing fails, I hope
you'll take it as a mandate todo things differently.
You're going to have to run asmaller district and, yeah,
people are going to lose theirjobs.
That's a function of business.
It's not personal relationshipswith the unions like we have
now.
People are going to lose theirjobs.

(01:25:26):
They'll get a job someplaceelse.
Life goes on.

Speaker 1 (01:25:30):
Okay, joel, that's your three minutes.
Thank you very much, andy, asyou know where your camera is
also, and I know your threeminutes to make your case on the
yes side.

Speaker 3 (01:25:39):
Great Well.
Craig, again, thank you verymuch for creating this venue for
Joel and I to have a spiriteddiscussion.
Joel, again I thank you foryour passion and for your
ability to convey your thoughts.
I began sharing my backgroundAgain.

(01:26:00):
I've worked in three differentcounties in California in public
education.
What I've found is that justabout anywhere you go, they
think they're special.
Each local community hassomething that they feel makes
them special.
I'd actually say and I hesitateto say this because I don't
want any of my former districtsto hear it Burbank actually is
special.

(01:26:20):
I'm from Moorpark, a communitythat really sprung up in the 80s
, and so there's not manysecond-generation or
third-generation families in thepublic school system.
I've been blown away at justhow many I've found here in
Burbank of people who not onlyhave their children in the
district but whose parents alsoattended the same schools in
which they now have, uh have thethird or fourth generation.
Um, you know, the uh thing thatI realized pretty quickly

(01:26:43):
coming in Burbank is that it isthe uh biggest little town that
I've ever been a part of.
Um, there's so that intersectin ways familial and just really
again create a character to acommunity that makes us a joy to
work and serve in.
We are at the point in ourschools where, again, for many

(01:27:06):
of them, because of thegenerational attendance that
we've had, they're 80, 90, 100years old.
Buildings require not justbasic maintenance, which we are
responsible for, but forsignificant replacement of

(01:27:27):
systems and reconstruction whenthey reach this age, and so we
are asking the community toplease support our local schools
with supporting Measure ABCover this next month.
Again, you're right, joel, thatthere are many different ways
that folks in this community paytaxes, but this is the only
method of taxes that go directlylocally and must stay local to

(01:27:50):
support our schools.
We have over 14,000 children inthis community who attend a
Burbank Unified School every day.
Whether that number declines inthe manner in which I mentioned
earlier or we're able to remainsteady, we know that we have a
responsibility every day toprovide the best environment for
our children to succeed, andthat does require safety.
Our campuses must be secure toprovide the best environment for

(01:28:11):
our children to succeed, andthat does require safety.
Our campuses must be secure.
They must have the 2024 andbeyond level safety measures.
Beyond that, they need to haveproper climate control.
They need to have proper roofsthat are functioning.
We need to have utility systemsthat are not from the 40s, with

(01:28:34):
cloth fiber that we had atLuther recently one fail and
lost a wing of classrooms for aweek last school year.
We are at the point where it'snot just band-aiding our
facilities but we really needand we desire.
We ask this community topartner with us, support the

(01:28:54):
ability to provide facilitiesthat are indicative of the
investment this community has inour local schools.
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:04):
All right, well, thank you both.
This is a tough subject, youknow.
I think it's important.
Number one when you get yourballot, it's important that you
vote.
It's also important you readread about the measure ABC.
Hopefully this will help youdecipher a little bit and form
your opinion.
But you need to vote.
Can't say that enough.

(01:29:25):
Turnout is important,especially at a minute easy in
California where you just checkout your your ballot and you put
it back in the mail again.
Really not a reason that youcannot vote.
So, please, it's important thatyou vote.
Frank Schur from MyBurbank.
Thank you very much forwatching or listening on the
podcast platforms and we willsee you next time.

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