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Are you a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth? You’re in the right place!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Breech birth options
- Cesarean Birth in Maine at Northern Light EMMC in Bangor, and also at MDI Hosptial
- Doula support in Maine
- Meaghan's journey to specializing in Pelvic Floor Physical Therapy
- ….and a whole lot more!
You can find more about Dr. Meaghan Staples by visiting her website https://www.refinephysicaltherapy.com/
You can also Connect with Dr. Meag over on Instagram or Facebook, her handle is @refine.physicaltherapy
Dr. Meag offers complimentary consultation calls for anyone who is interested in her services. Send her an email to set up a free call with her info@refinephysicaltherapy.com
Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…
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CLICK HERE for 10% off the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course!
Not sure where to start? I’ve got you covered! Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider. Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Angela (00:00):
So I was exploring your website,
refinephysicaltherapycom beforeour call today, and I came
across your blog, which Ithought had a lot of really
great posts about some goodtopics that don't get talked
about enough.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (00:13):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, you know what?
I get a lot of my ideas justfrom stuff that people ask me
about.
I'm like, oh yeah, I should.
You're probably not the onlyone that's wondering about it.
Yeah, I feel like those arequestions that people don't
realize that there actuallymight be some answers to as well
.
Like they, this is definitely asubject that we tend to not
(00:36):
tell anybody about.
Or maybe you've been to yourdoctor before and they just kind
of are like you're, eh, you'regoing through menopause, and
then it kind of gets brushed tothe side when when really there
are a lot of deeper root causesto to these things.
Angela (00:54):
I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Main Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, From our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(01:15):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 109of the my Main Birth podcast,
(01:35):
and today's birth story guest isDr Megan Staples.
She is a mom of two, anorthopedic and pelvic floor
physical therapist, as well as aspinning babies aware
practitioner and birth coach.
She is the owner of RefinePhysical Therapy, which is
located in Bangor, Maine.
All right, let's get to it.
(01:56):
Hi, Dr Meg.
Welcome to my Maine Birth.
Hello, Hi, thank you so muchfor taking the time to chat with
me today.
I feel like it's reallyimportant to bring more
awareness to the topic of pelvicfloor physical therapy.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (02:12):
Yes, oh my gosh, I know this is definitely
like a subject that I feel likea lot of women just don't talk
about, so it's good for us totalk, yes.
Angela (02:22):
So, to get started, will you share a little bit about
you and your family?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (02:27):
Yeah, so my name's Megan and I'm actually
originally from Minnesota, but Iended up out here in Maine
because I was doing travelphysical therapy at the time and
I got sent to Lincoln and thenthat's I don't know.
I was here with a friend and wewould go out and yeah, that's
where I met my husband, justwhen we were living in Bangor,
(02:50):
and then I never left.
So here I am, a transplant outhere, but it's been really good.
I have got two kiddos.
So Natalie is four and a halfnow and Connor is.
He'll be two in July.
So I feel like I've got.
My hands are kind of full rightnow, but it's been, it's been
fun and what else, oh yeah.
And then I, you know, just sincemy pregnancy with Natalie is
(03:11):
when I first got interested inpelvic floor health she, she
ended up being breech and I wasjust looking for some
alternative ways that I couldhelp to flip her Cause I really
didn't want to do the you know,more aggressive, like when they
physically turn them, like atthe doctors.
I'm blanking on what the?
Yeah, I was like I am not doingthat, I just I didn't feel good
(03:35):
about it, but yeah, but when Iwas looking around here I
couldn't really find.
I nobody had any answers thatwere very satisfying for me, so
I figured I'd go out and learnmore for myself.
And then in 2021 is when Iopened my business, and I just
didn't.
I didn't like being inside theinsurance-based practice.
(03:56):
I just felt like I wasn'tgiving the quality of care that
I really wanted to be able togive to people.
So, yeah, so I ended up openingmy own clinic.
It's called Refined FiscalTherapy.
Right now I'm located inCrossFit Bangor.
I just have like a private roomin the back here and, yeah, and
it's been really good.
I love my clients now andeverybody's like so passionate
(04:17):
and motivated about women'shealth things and I am too so I
could like just talk about itall day, but anyways, so, yeah,
I guess that's a little bitabout me.
Angela (04:26):
So you're a spinning babies practitioner also, right?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (04:31):
Yes, yeah, love spinning babies.
Yeah, I would say, like pelvicfloor wise, I like, I liked the
pelvic floor classes that I took, but I always again I felt like
there was something else, I wasmissing.
So then I started looking intospinning babies, which is more
taught by, like the midwives andthe doulas, and I was like, wow
, this is such a rich experienceto learn from.
(04:53):
And so, yeah, I do, I kind oftake a lot of different pieces
into my work, but, yes, I dolike the spinning babies.
Angela (05:02):
Cool, yeah.
So to get started with yourfirst birth story, will you
share a little bit about how youfound out you're pregnant and
what your thoughts were inchoosing your care?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (05:13):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like everybody remembers, especially with that first one
, where you're like, oh my gosh,I'm pregnant, Like is this even
real?
And then it's like your lifeflashes before your eyes of like
nothing will ever be the sameagain.
Yeah, that's how it was for me.
I just remember being in our,in our bedroom, and then my
(05:36):
husband walked downstairs, likeyou know, two seconds after I,
you know, had the test and hewas like Is that what I think it
is?
And yeah, he was like no way.
I didn't think we would be that, lucky Cause we really didn't
have any issues getting pregnant, but anyways, yeah it was, it
was.
I haven't thought about thatmoment in a long time.
(05:56):
I remember going to the gymafterwards and I was like on the
elliptical and I'm just like Ihave a secret and nobody knows,
type of thing.
Oh, yeah yeah, yeah.
And then so I decided, where didwe go?
We went to.
That was back when Dr Smith wasstill in practice, so that's
(06:17):
the practice that we went to.
And Natalie that's my first.
She was breached the whole,pretty much the whole time, like
even at the 20 week ultrasound.
Um, I remember the ultrasoundlady being like, oh, she's
already breached and she's like,oh, but she'll probably turn.
And I'm like, okay, and then Ikind of you know, I'm a little
bit more aware of this just fromhaving the pt background.
(06:40):
But so then I started noticingI'm like she doesn't really like
move that much, like her headhead is is just stuck in my left
rib basically, and she neverreally deviated from that
positioning.
So then I now, looking back,I'm like, yeah, I could have
used the spinning baby's bodywork, but it was not available
(07:01):
to me at the time.
So yeah, so then I ended up.
I really wanted to have like anatural birth.
I wanted to do at the time.
So, yeah.
So then I ended up.
I really wanted to have like anatural birth.
I wanted to do all thedifferent positionings, I wanted
to not have the epidural, butthen it was like our 38 week
appointment she was still breechand again she never moved
position and then just like outhere especially in the US and
(07:23):
Maine in general like the breachdeliveries aren't.
I just didn't feel comfortableabout that either.
Like I know that there is a wayto deliver breach safely, but I
think it really depends on theconfidence that your
practitioner has.
And so I just didn't feel I wasnot going to do it.
So we scheduled the C-section.
So I just didn't.
I was like no, not going to doit.
So we scheduled the C-section.
(07:45):
And you know, at first when wemade that decision it was really
hard.
But now, looking back at howthe C-section went, I had
prepared with the hypnobirthingand I did all the meditations
and I thought that that wasactually really helpful going
into like the surgery and I wassuper calm and I just it was
(08:06):
actually a very peaceful, it wasa.
It was a peaceful c-section.
So I'm happy about that.
And I just remember when shecame out she wasn't crying and
the doctors were like, oh mygosh, is she okay?
And I'm like she's fine.
I even knew back then I waslike she's fine, she just she
knows that I'm calm, she's fine.
I even knew back then I waslike she's fine, she just she
(08:27):
knows that I'm calm, like Icould just sense that she knew
that and yeah.
And then they brought her overand put her on my chest and and
yeah, it was.
I mean I had to recover fromthat and good thing I know PT
and we do a lot of like scarmobility, cause I worked pretty
hard on getting my scar afterthat to move well and my abs
came back nicely.
But yeah, honestly, overallthat was a pretty good C-section
(08:47):
, even though it just wasn'twhat I wanted.
But again, the breechdeliveries over here, which I
think in the future that's goingto be a thing that more and
more practitioners arecomfortable with.
But it's a very specific waythat the midwives and the
practitioners would need to knowand kind of a language around
(09:08):
that too was like well, we coulddo it, but you'll probably just
get an emergency C-sectionanyways.
And so even with that beingworded like that, I'm like nope,
we're just going to do theplanned one and call it a day.
So at the time, you know, I dothink it was the right decision.
Maybe again, maybe in thefuture, these breach deliveries
(09:29):
won't be as big of a deal, andjust because our OBGs will have
that training, but we're justdefinitely not there yet.
It's so hard, yeah, yeah, yeah,I know that the um I want to
say to say I actually I don'tknow where these group of
clinicians are from.
I almost want to say likesomewhere in Europe, like France
(09:50):
or something.
But anyways, they recently dida training in Bangor called
Breach Without Borders.
Angela (09:57):
Yes, at the birth center and all the midwives went to it
, which I think is so cool, butstill it's like, it's against,
like their licensure, so youcan't go to them if you have a
breech baby, but if you're undertheir care and you have a
surprise breech baby, they havethese skills.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (10:15):
Oh my gosh, I know it's, it's wild, it's
like this doesn't even makesense.
Angela (10:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean it is great that they'reat least learning these skills.
That is so cool, but it's sadthey can't use them.
Yeah.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (10:33):
I know, I totally agree.
Yeah, there's a I should sharethis Instagram account with you.
But she is a midwife and shelike specializes in breech and
twin natural births and she'sgot so many great like videos
and images of of these breachbirths happening and I'm like,
oh my gosh, like this is likebeautiful that she's sharing
(10:55):
this and how it can actually bejust like a normal birthing
experience.
I mean, obviously, like on themidwife and OB perspective.
They're like your what if?
People, so they need to knowall these what if?
Things in case they do happen.
And there are obviously somevery specific what ifs with that
presentation.
But, yeah, I've watched some ofher videos and the way that she
(11:17):
talks about it.
It's like, oh, that makes sense, that makes sense, Like one of
the things she says.
It's like if the chin is up,like extended upward, and like
the head's not coming through,then you don't want to put your
hands up in the vaginal canalbecause that's not going to help
baby come out, but what you dois you put your hands on the
(11:38):
baby's chest and that'll helpbring that chin back down so the
head can come out.
Angela (11:43):
And I'm like, oh my gosh , like wait, more people need to
know about stuff like this.
I would love if it would go inthat direction for sure, because
it is so hard for moms thatthat have breech babies.
There's really almost no choice.
Like it's like okay, you canschedule your C-section or you
can schedule your C-section.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (12:02):
Like what other thing can you have?
things and that's how I gotreally interested in spinning
babies, because they do a lot ofthis like breach positioning,
to do like prior to birth aswell as um.
I ended up taking their likewhat do they call it?
It's like aware practitionercourse, um, where I learned all
(12:22):
this different body work aroundthe there's a bunch of different
ligaments of the uterus andlike your hip flexors and low
back and rib cage and thighs,like all of that connective
tissue that just surrounds thewomb, can get tight and
restricted and then thereforebaby only has enough space to,
(12:44):
you know, be in whatever spaceis available.
So if there is tightness orrestriction they might just get
kind of stuck in that breachposition.
But if, in theory, if you canopen it up through the body work
, then and then do the specificbreach positionings, like a
forward lean inversion is aclassic one that I feel like a
lot of people know about thesedays, you know, just to get that
(13:06):
head pointing down into thepelvis.
Yeah, I've actually had quite afew or not quite a few, but
I've had a handful.
I've had two of them wheretheir babies did flip out of the
(13:27):
maybe three or four that I'vehad in the breach.
Angela (13:31):
So I don't know, that's just you know.
You never know what's going onin there, what's right for them,
but like, and there's alsothose babies that are in there
and are just like you know, kindof like you said, in that
tightness, and just need alittle help getting into the
ideal position and and that's socool yeah, yeah, and that's
(13:54):
what I tell the moms too.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (13:55):
I'm like, if it is from a tightness or
restriction, like the baby willlikely flip with these
techniques, but there's also theplacenta and the cord that we
can't ever know really muchabout and at that point it's out
of our hands and you'll leavethis experience knowing that you
did the best that you could and, yeah, and your baby,
(14:16):
regardless.
I believe that your baby canfeel how much you just care
about them and care about this,and that in itself is something
worth noting too.
Angela (14:26):
Absolutely yeah, that's so true and definitely should
not be overlooked.
So how was your postpartum thenrecovering after your daughter?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (14:36):
My daughter .
Not bad, I, you know.
I'm like I don't know if it wasjust because she was my first
baby and I was, you know, 26years old.
I feel like I bounced back.
It wasn't until the second onewhere I was like, even now I'm
like, I still don't feel.
I still don't feel a hundredpercent, even though I teach
people pelvic floor exercisesevery day.
Angela (14:58):
Yeah.
So to get into your secondbirth story when did you find
out you were pregnant for thesecond time and what were your
thoughts in choosing your care?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (15:08):
Yeah, so Connor Natalie was about two
years old and so we were kind oflike this is going to be a good
timing and again, I've neverhad any issues getting pregnant.
So it was kind of like, oh,maybe we should get pregnant.
And then, boom, we werepregnant.
And I'm trying to think now sothat was when.
So his, his whole pregnancy andbirth was a lot more intense
(15:32):
than my little breach, whichactually I will side note.
My little breach baby, whorefused to turn, is also like
the most independent, bossylittle lady I've ever met.
So I think that's just how shewas in the womb and that's how
she is now.
Angela (15:49):
There might be something to that.
Yes.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (15:52):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
Literally like two days ago shetold me she was like wearing a
baseball hat and she was likewhoever wears this baseball hat
is the boss.
That means I'm the boss.
I was like okay.
Angela (16:08):
Oh, that's adorable.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (16:11):
I still think Connor he'll be two in
July.
My husband was away on militarytraining for about six months
of my pregnancy, so it wasprobably like two months to
seven or eight months is when hewas gone, Like he just like
wasn't even here.
Um, oh yeah, and I forgot tomention to both my kids I had
(16:33):
gestational diabetes, so thatwas another hurdle to have them.
You know, not that it washorrible, but just that extra
planning that you got to do tomake sure that you're checking
your blood sugars and eatingprotein filled snacks and meal
prepping which I'm not very goodat that stuff anyways and then
(16:54):
at a two year old being pregnantand then no husband around, it
was kind of a I like feel like Ibarely even remember his
pregnancy.
It was so, so busy, oh, and Iwas like running my business.
It was crazy.
But I will say, during hispregnancy, that's really when I
was like I think I'm going tospecialize in pelvic floor, Like
I had been interested in itwith Natalie's birth, but I kind
(17:17):
of thought it was just becauseI was experiencing it and I
thought it was just like a phasethat I was going to get over.
And then by the time Connorcame around, I was like, no, I'm
actually like super passionateabout this and I like really
want to learn more.
So that's when I was like, no,I'm actually like super
passionate about this and I likereally want to learn more.
So that's when I was pregnantwith him, I took, like I don't
know, five different pelvicfloor classes.
So it was great, Cause it'slike all this body work for like
(17:38):
the pregnant belly and I hadthe pregnant belly and um, so
yeah, it was.
It was just a really goodexperience and I feel like that
helps me as a clinician too,Cause it's like I remember how
that body work felt when I wasalso pregnant and then so I
wanted to do a VBAC.
Gosh, I started off at Northernlight, decided I didn't want to
do that, Cause even on like thefirst visit that I went to them,
(18:01):
they were like, well, we kindof do VBACs, but we'll probably
have to induce you and I'm likeI'm like 20 weeks pregnant.
I'm like I don't want to likewhat you don't know.
You've never, you haven't evenlooked at my chart.
It's like in the first fiveminutes of you even meeting me,
you never asked me anythingabout what I wanted either.
So, anyways, got out of there,ended up going down to MDI and
(18:26):
Bar Harbor, Cause I had heardthat the at the the time the
midwives down there, they had areally good team, which I agree,
and then they all left and nowMDI is no more, which is crazy,
I know.
So sad.
Angela (18:41):
Yeah, I can't believe that.
It's wild how fast they'reclosing.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (18:45):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's just like I feel
like I saw it on Facebook and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like, and
not just MDI, but then it's likeBelfast and somewhere in
Augusta too, right yeah,waterville.
Angela (18:58):
and then the week after MDI announced, holton announced
that they were closing too,which is really crazy too,
because there's like a 200 milelike maternity care desert
Presque Isle to Bangor.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:10):
But yeah, Wow, oh my God, that is yeah,
that's wild.
Oh, I wonder how Bangor isdoing now, because there's not
even that many options in Bangoreither.
Angela (19:21):
Yeah, it's really the only yeah.
There's the one doctor's officeand the other one is a private
office that I think.
At last I heard they were full.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:29):
Yeah, I bet they are full.
Angela (19:33):
It's crazy, but how was your experience at MDI?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:37):
Oh my gosh.
So Connor's birth was hard.
My water broke and he was headdown and I'm like, okay, no big
deal.
It was on my due date that hiswater broke and I had been.
And I'm like, okay, no big deal.
Um, it was on my due date thathis water broke and I had been.
And I was like you know what,I'm going to start pumping.
So I did that and literallywhile I was pumping the is when
(19:57):
my water broke, which I'm likethat's probably.
I'm like, no, no, I'm lookingback, I'm like, oh, yeah, that
makes sense.
Maybe I shouldn't have donethat.
But in my mind I was like like,okay, like it's his due date,
we can kind of, you know, getthings started or whatever.
And again, I had been doing alot of prenatal prep, with just
all the body work I've beengetting done and my own like
(20:21):
clinical knowledge of prenatalpositional prep and stuff like
that.
But anyways, I could even justtell it was like my water broke
and I was like, oh, was that it?
Like it was like superanti-climatic.
And so I call my husband andnow we this is in the summertime
, so Natalie goes to grandma andgrandpa's house and then my
(20:42):
husband drives and I drive downto MDI and I'm just walking in
and I'm like I'm I'm in laborand they're like are you?
I'm like I don't know my waterbroke and every once in a while
my belly gets kind of tight.
They're like, okay, so I go upto the I don't know the, the
room like the, where they'regonna check me out, and they're
(21:03):
like, wow, you are not dilatedin any way, shape or form, like
why don't you get a hotel, staythe night and then come back in
the morning?
And so that's what we did.
We went out to eat.
I went through a bunch of pads,cause it was like kind of a lot
.
Um, when my water broke and uh,and I was like Cody, like
(21:24):
nothing's really happening, andlike we went on a walk.
You know, I did a bunch of youknow just movements and stuff,
and it kind of kicked in alittle bit, like I had what I
would imagine is like early,early labor, where the belly
just gets really tight and itkind of feels like period cramps
, but just turned up a couplenotches and then it just never
(21:47):
progressed.
So then I went back in in themorning.
They're like yeah, your cervixstill hasn't dilated and it's
been 24 hours, so we're gonna dothe C section.
And I was like, oh my God, Imade it all this way, you know,
trying to do the V back.
His head is down and anyways,on the heart rate monitor, I
(22:11):
mean they did say that it lookedlike during the contractions
that I was having that his heartrate was de-selling a little
bit.
But now, looking back, it waslike I was just sitting in bed
and maybe I should have gotteninto a couple of different
positions, like that's what menow would have directed myself
(22:31):
to do.
But I was still pretty new withbirth knowledge back then
because I was still learning.
But yeah, so, yeah, I ended upgetting another C-section.
But you know what?
It was a Saturday and it feltlike everybody just wanted to
leave.
So it just got done real quick.
It was fast, it was kind ofaggressive.
(22:53):
My body did not heal very wellfrom that.
Like my lower abdomen is stilllike bloated, my scar is not was
like double the size of what itwas with Natalie.
Yeah, I had a lot of pain afterthat C-section, like probably
for a good three weeks.
And yeah, and I just rememberafter that one I was like, oh my
(23:14):
gosh, I just spent thousands ofdollars learning how to do
pelvic floor therapy and I justI felt like I failed is really
what happened.
So I was kind of in thatheadspace for a really long time
, cause I really in my heart,really truly believed that
having a, you know, a beautifulbirth, beautiful natural birth,
(23:37):
is possible, which it totally is.
It just, you know, it justdidn't happen for me and yeah,
so I don't know how it took.
I think emotionally it took itstoll too.
I'm okay now.
Um, I think it helped that Ihad a lot of clients.
Um, like, I started workingagain just short hours when
Connor was only like eight weeks, but everybody that was coming
(24:00):
in to see me was like totallyinvested in the pregnancy and
birth.
So I got to tell that story alot and I think just retelling
that story over and over againuntil it lost its power over me
was really nice.
And so now when I retell it,I'm like, yeah, I don't know
what happened.
Now I have two crazy littlekids that I chase around and
(24:22):
love so dearly.
Angela (24:24):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you bring
up that.
A lot of times we can feel likea failure after our birth if it
doesn't go the way that we hadwanted it to, and that's so far
from the truth.
She's also a pelvic physicaltherapist in Bucksport oh cool.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (24:52):
Yeah, so we connected because we're like on
the same page, like treatmentwise, and she also does the
doula work, so she was there atmy birth, which was so nice.
Like obviously I thought thatshe was going to help me with a
VBAC, but just having her thereCause when with the C-section it
was like my husband and Connorwere in a different room for a
(25:15):
while and then I was by myselfand I would have been by myself
had Casey not been there butlike just having her there, I
just I really, really liked thatsupport.
So, yeah, kind of something tothink about if you do, if
anybody does end up getting aC-section for whatever reason,
it is nice to have anotherperson there.
Angela (25:35):
They'll have a doula, Be with you and help you.
Just to you know, understand,like all the things that are
going on and yeah cause there'slike a lot of like.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (25:50):
It's just it's it's more medical.
Obviously there's a lot morelike medications going in your
body which I mean not that I'mlike a huge fan of, but I was
like I have to take thesebecause otherwise I will like it
.
It's going to be so painful.
I will not be okay.
I won't be able to take care ofthis baby if I don't take the
pain meds.
Yeah, it's going to be sopainful I will not be okay.
Angela (26:09):
I won't be able to take care of this baby if I don't
take the pain meds yeah, it's ahard, like double-edged sword,
compromising on some of thethings that you really didn't
want, but you kind of have to.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (26:18):
You know, to heal and yep, and now I feel
like I have just I got over thethe thought that I'm failure.
I got over that.
I was like that, like no, and Ithink it's probably because I
told enough people where theywere like no, like what you just
told me helped me so much in myown birth and I'm like, oh,
(26:39):
thank God, like I.
Just, you know, for some reasonI just thought if I didn't have
this experience I wasn't goingto be able to help other women
with it.
But now what I what I reallyreally like doing is I do a lot
of prenatal prep where we'redoing the body work to help with
fetal positioning and it helpswith, like pregnancy aches and
(27:01):
pains, making sure that moms arelike standing correctly so that
they don't accidentally givethemselves that pancake flat
butt because they're not usingtheir butt muscles anymore, so
important.
And then I also have been doinga lot of like prenatal prep
where the birth partner willcome in.
(27:23):
Usually it's the husband, solike, he'll get in and I'll
teach him.
I'll, you know, make him puthis hands on her in like
different positions that willhelp to, you know, like hip
squeezes and tailbone slides,and I even teach him
specifically how you, how do doa back massage to help with the
contraction pain and to helpwith the fetal positioning?
(27:45):
And I'm press start practicingthis all now.
Just start start doing it now.
And the moms are like, oh, hishomework is to get me a massage.
I'm like, yes, and, and so I.
I think that's been helpful formy clients.
That's the feedback that I'vegotten so far is like the guy
feeling a little bit lessdisplaced in the whole situation
(28:06):
, um, and a little bit moreconnected with what's happening,
because I do think that theguys get a little bit pushed off
to the side.
Yet I really believe that theyhave a really important role in
just helping mom to.
It's almost like as mothers wehelp regulate our kids' nervous
systems.
When we're calm, then they canbe calm too.
(28:30):
Kind of the same with thepartner in that situation, like
if he can help mommy regulateher nervous system, then that
baby's going to come out so muchmore smooth.
Angela (28:39):
Yeah, and so I love that .
So do you do classes forcouples or is it sort of more
just one-on-one?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (28:48):
Yep, so far it's been one-on-one.
I don't necessarily have thespace to do multiple people, but
yeah, so they'll get thatone-on-one attention and I'll
I'll put my hands on his andmake sure that he's got the
pressure right and he's usingthe right, you know, aspect of
his hand, and they love it.
Like I feel like the guys are alittle bit more like
mechanically minded.
(29:09):
So I get my pelvis out and Ilike show him how the pelvic
bones move.
And he's like, oh, this makessense.
And I'm like, yeah, it does,like that's great.
And then sometimes the mom islike, are you getting this?
And he's like, oh, yeah, I gotit, like I understand exactly
what she's talking about.
And then the moms are like,okay, good Cause, that was a
(29:29):
little over my head, wow.
Angela (29:32):
That's amazing.
So you do a lot of prep withfamilies before the birth.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (29:36):
Yeah, I do have a fair amount of people
Like it's like ladies will reachout when they're pregnant,
either like they want to makesure they're doing safe exercise
or they just like really wantto prepare and learn about birth
as much as possible.
Um, I do tend to attract theones that would prefer to not
have epidurals, um and and yeah.
(30:00):
So then I do the partner prep,which is probably what I would
call the birth coaching stuff,basically teaching your, your
partner, how to be your birthcoach, so that when you, when
you get to the big day, it'slike you've already had that
practice time together, so it itflows a little bit more
naturally.
Um.
And then I do some postpartumrecovery stuff, cause obviously
your pelvic floor and core youknow they just get stretched out
(30:23):
for nine months because they'resupporting a growing baby and
they just need to be retrainedin a specific way so that you're
not accidentally putting toomuch pressure down into the
pelvic floor and that can causethings like back pain, hip pain,
the diastasis which is likethat, ab separation, bladder
(30:44):
leakage, prolapse issues.
So the postpartum recovery is alot of avoiding those things.
But I do see a lot of women whohave those things and then we're
fixing and addressing them.
So I would say most of myclients are probably between the
ages of like 25 and up to maybelike 60 is usually the people
that I'm helping.
(31:05):
And yeah, I do help a decentamount of women who are like oh,
I didn't even know that youwere supposed to do anything
after having babies Like I hadmy babies 17 years ago is all
hope lost?
I'm like, no, no, I'm so gladyou're here, like we will
address all these things and getyou back to being functional
again.
Angela (31:26):
Yeah, even issues that have been going on for a long
time.
I feel like that was yeah, like.
I had never heard of a pelvicfloor therapist after my first
birth.
That was like hard and yeah, itwasn't until you started doing
like the doula stuff that I waslike.
Oh, pelvic floor therapy Likewhy did nobody tell me about
this after my birth?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (31:43):
Oh, my gosh .
I seriously it blows my mindLike anything in the Euro gyno
region.
Like I have had clients toothat have started reaching out
to me because they're like I'mgoing to get a hysterectomy but
I'm concerned about my pelvicfloor health and I'm like let's
get you in for some prehab,let's get you in after your
(32:03):
surgery, because I mean we dothat in every other part of the
body.
Like you get a knee surgery andyou get you know PT to like
help strengthen around your knee.
Kind of the same thing withhaving babies.
Like you're, you will not nothave a baby without having some
sort of core or pelvic floorchanges and they just need to be
(32:25):
rehabbed and retrained.
I tell everybody I'm like everywoman needs a pelvic floor
physical therapist.
Angela (32:32):
Yeah, that's what it seems like.
I feel like the more I learnabout it.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (32:36):
Yeah, it's always like so surprising for
clients when they come in andthey're like, oh my gosh, I
didn't know that that's wherethat issue was coming from.
But now that you're liketouching that muscle, that makes
sense why I'm feeling this wayor I'm having the symptom.
So it's really like insightfulfor the ladies that come in and
I don't know, I have a lot offun teaching it too.
(32:59):
Yeah, well, that always likehelps when you're working with
somebody who's really passionateabout it oh yeah, I'm like
constantly like I just am thatpersonality type where I
probably have like fivedifferent books open all at once
and yeah, so I'm likeconstantly reading about really
anything.
But a lot of it is like pelvicfloor related, birth related,
(33:21):
hormone related, because I thinkthat's interesting and nobody
understands women's of.
It is like pelvic floor related, birth related, hormone related
, because I think that'sinteresting and nobody
understands women's hormones.
Angela (33:26):
It seems like yeah, I feel like in the natural birth
communities there's a lot offocus on the hormonal blueprint
of birth and just the idea ornotion that you should just
always trust birth and that itwill always unfold to the way
it's supposed to.
But sometimes there's more toit than that, and I think the
(33:47):
biomechanical process of birthis something that really
deserves more attention.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (33:53):
Yes, and that's a lot of what I teach in
the partner prep classes.
That I'll do with people is likeget the husband on the same
page of like.
If you can kind of figure outwhere baby's head is, if they're
above in the or like above thepelvis, in the pelvis or coming
out of the pelvis, based onthose three things, then you can
(34:16):
be very deliberate and how youknow you're helping her move her
ankle so that her hip isrotated a certain way, because
you would lift the ankle up atthe end of birth but you might
lift the knee up at thebeginning of birth.
So it's stuff like that.
Or at the beginning of thebirth you're probably going to
(34:38):
have more success in a more likehip extension, walking upright
type of position and then as youget down into like in the birth
canal and coming out, you mightbe better in like the quadruped
position or sideline or like arunning lunge where you're
getting the pelvic floor to openup.
So that's all the stuff that Iteach them when they come into
(35:00):
the to the classes.
And again, I have all my modelstoo.
So I'm so visual that I yeah,they leave having a good picture
in their mind of what the heckis going on.
Angela (35:13):
That's so good and so helpful.
I think it.
Yeah, just like being preparedin any way that you can.
It feels right to you Like justlearn about what's going to
happen to you, like in the birthexperience, and that just helps
you go, you know, through thewhole thing smoother yeah, yeah,
that's so true, like they'rejust kind of having a little bit
of an idea of what to expectand what these different
(35:34):
sensations mean too.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (35:36):
Oh, actually, that's.
The other thing that I do withclients is like with the pelvic
exam.
It's an internal exam wherewe're assessing the pelvic floor
muscles and a lot of timeswomen don't know how to relax
them very well and that is whatthey need to learn in order to
have their pelvis open up andgive birth.
(35:58):
Like it's more of like thepelvic floor needs to relax.
It doesn't need to tighten up.
I would argue that most peopleoveruse their pelvic floor and
that's where we get the weakbutt muscles.
So it's like if you can relearnhow to use your butt muscles so
you're not overusing yourpelvic floor, then your pelvic
floor will have more flexibilityto then be able to be relaxed
(36:20):
and it'll be easier for you tofor the baby to come out.
Angela (36:25):
So don't do Kegels to prepare for birth.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (36:28):
No, no.
They literally like do theopposite, get that to go down,
not up, cause you might be justmaking a tight muscle even
tighter, which is not helpinganything.
Out of all of the women that Ihave seen and evaluated, I can
think of two that have, but thatprobably could have used just
(36:52):
the Kegel trainer to get moretension into those muscles too.
Otherwise everybody else hasbeen like, wow, that's
surprisingly really tense andtight and hurts and it doesn't
feel good.
Angela (37:06):
and I'm like, yeah, yeah , I'm glad you're here yeah, if
you're doing something and it'slike hurting or not feeling good
, that's usually a pretty goodred flag to stop doing that
thing.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (37:17):
I think that's the sneaky thing, though,
about pelvic floor is like youdon't know.
A lot of women don't realize orknow until they get the
assessment.
And then it's like oh, becauseit's like we have such a hard
time perceiving those muscles,because I know who talks about
pelvic floor muscles.
Like you know, you don't gettaught that in school or how to
(37:39):
contract them well, or even likeone of the first things I'll
have clients do is like sit ontheir hands.
I'm like you're sitting on yourpelvic floor, like can you feel
that?
Like can you, can you get it tomove up and down?
Can you start mapping that inyour mind of what those muscles
even feel like?
Because so many women justdon't have they've like oh, I've
(37:59):
never thought about it likethat before.
So I had a client come in theother day that was like well, I
know I needed to come in becausesomebody told me to, but I
can't help but wonder if this isjust like a fad, because I keep
seeing it on instagram, youknow, if it's just like some
marketing trend, I don't know.
I kind of chuckled.
(38:19):
I was like yeah, there is a lotof just not of superficial
stuff out there, but the beautyis there's.
There's a decent amount ofpelvic floor pts, although maybe
not so much in Maine.
There's not a whole lot inBangor.
Angela (38:36):
I know, I know there's not very many like up north even
.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (38:40):
Also, I wonder if you get a lot of
people like coming down fromfrom there but I had I know that
there is a lady in preskylebecause she actually reached out
to me because she was going tobe gone and she had a client
that really wanted to continueand and she reached out to me.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm likehours away from Presque Isle,
but yeah.
(39:02):
Um, yeah, so yeah, up North I'mnot.
Yeah, I know there's at leastone, but beyond that, yeah, I
know it's, it's hard, it's.
This is a definitely aspecialty that's just now
starting to become more and morecommon within the PT community.
Even like five to 10 years ago,there was not very many pelvic
(39:22):
health providers very few andfar between.
Angela (39:25):
So would you share a little bit more about how we can
find you?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (39:29):
Yes, so I um, I have a pretty active
Instagram, so you can follow meif you like Instagram, or
actually on Facebook too.
It's at refine R E FN-E dotphysical therapy.
Otherwise, I do have.
I have a website that's got alot of blog posts on it as well,
and that'srefinedphysicaltherapycom, and
(39:53):
if you have any questions, I dofree phone consultations that
are usually like 20 to 30minutes in length.
So if you do have any questionsand think that you might need
the service, I'd love to talk toyou about it.
Angela (40:07):
So I was exploring your website,
refinephysicaltherapycom beforeour call today, and I came
across your blog, which Ithought had a lot of really
great posts about some goodtopics that don't get talked
about enough.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (40:20):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, you know what?
I get a lot of my ideas justfrom stuff that people ask me
about.
I'm like oh yeah, I should.
You're probably not the onlyone that's wondering about it.
Yeah, I feel like those arequestions that people don't
realize that there actuallymight be some answers to as well
.
Like they, this is definitely asubject that we tend to not
(40:43):
tell anybody about.
Or maybe you've been to yourdoctor before and they just kind
of are like you're pregnant oryou're going through menopause,
and then it kind of gets brushedto the side when when really
there are a lot of deeper rootcauses to to these things yeah,
it's like when you start lookinginto it yourself, you find that
there is support for you outhere, but like nobody's really
(41:05):
telling you about it.
Angela (41:06):
So this is us telling you about it.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (41:09):
Yes, this is us telling you about it.
Angela (41:12):
Oh, I love it.
Well, I'm going to link all ofyour information so people can
find you in the show notes.
And yeah, it was just such apleasure chatting with you.
Thank you so much for coming on, and taking the time.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (41:24):
Yes, thank you so much.
I've had fun.
Angela (41:28):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
labor of love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(41:50):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(42:11):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at
mymainbirth over on Instagram.
So I was exploring your website,
refinephysicaltherapycom beforeour call today, and I came
across your blog, which Ithought had a lot of really
great posts about some goodtopics that don't get talked
about enough.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (00:13):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, you know what?
I get a lot of my ideas justfrom stuff that people ask me
about.
I'm like, oh yeah, I should.
You're probably not the onlyone that's wondering about it.
Yeah, I feel like those arequestions that people don't
realize that there actuallymight be some answers to as well
.
Like they, this is definitely asubject that we tend to not
(00:36):
tell anybody about.
Or maybe you've been to yourdoctor before and they just kind
of are like you're, eh, you'regoing through menopause, and
then it kind of gets brushed tothe side when when really there
are a lot of deeper root causesto to these things.
Angela (00:54):
I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Main Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, From our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(01:15):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 109of the my Main Birth podcast,
(01:35):
and today's birth story guest isDr Megan Staples.
She is a mom of two, anorthopedic and pelvic floor
physical therapist, as well as aspinning babies aware
practitioner and birth coach.
She is the owner of RefinePhysical Therapy, which is
located in Bangor, Maine.
All right, let's get to it.
(01:56):
Hi, Dr Meg.
Welcome to my Maine Birth.
Hello, Hi, thank you so muchfor taking the time to chat with
me today.
I feel like it's reallyimportant to bring more
awareness to the topic of pelvicfloor physical therapy.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (02:12):
Yes, oh my gosh, I know this is definitely
like a subject that I feel likea lot of women just don't talk
about, so it's good for us totalk, yes.
Angela (02:22):
So, to get started, will you share a little bit about
you and your family?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (02:27):
Yeah, so my name's Megan and I'm actually
originally from Minnesota, but Iended up out here in Maine
because I was doing travelphysical therapy at the time and
I got sent to Lincoln and thenthat's I don't know.
I was here with a friend and wewould go out and yeah, that's
where I met my husband, justwhen we were living in Bangor,
(02:50):
and then I never left.
So here I am, a transplant outhere, but it's been really good.
I have got two kiddos.
So Natalie is four and a halfnow and Connor is.
He'll be two in July.
So I feel like I've got.
My hands are kind of full rightnow, but it's been, it's been
fun and what else, oh yeah.
And then I, you know, just sincemy pregnancy with Natalie is
(03:11):
when I first got interested inpelvic floor health she, she
ended up being breech and I wasjust looking for some
alternative ways that I couldhelp to flip her Cause I really
didn't want to do the you know,more aggressive, like when they
physically turn them, like atthe doctors.
I'm blanking on what the?
Yeah, I was like I am not doingthat, I just I didn't feel good
(03:35):
about it, but yeah, but when Iwas looking around here I
couldn't really find.
I nobody had any answers thatwere very satisfying for me, so
I figured I'd go out and learnmore for myself.
And then in 2021 is when Iopened my business, and I just
didn't.
I didn't like being inside theinsurance-based practice.
(03:56):
I just felt like I wasn'tgiving the quality of care that
I really wanted to be able togive to people.
So, yeah, so I ended up openingmy own clinic.
It's called Refined FiscalTherapy.
Right now I'm located inCrossFit Bangor.
I just have like a private roomin the back here and, yeah, and
it's been really good.
I love my clients now andeverybody's like so passionate
(04:17):
and motivated about women'shealth things and I am too so I
could like just talk about itall day, but anyways, so, yeah,
I guess that's a little bitabout me.
Angela (04:26):
So you're a spinning babies practitioner also, right?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (04:31):
Yes, yeah, love spinning babies.
Yeah, I would say, like pelvicfloor wise, I like, I liked the
pelvic floor classes that I took, but I always again I felt like
there was something else, I wasmissing.
So then I started looking intospinning babies, which is more
taught by, like the midwives andthe doulas, and I was like, wow
, this is such a rich experienceto learn from.
(04:53):
And so, yeah, I do, I kind oftake a lot of different pieces
into my work, but, yes, I dolike the spinning babies.
Angela (05:02):
Cool, yeah.
So to get started with yourfirst birth story, will you
share a little bit about how youfound out you're pregnant and
what your thoughts were inchoosing your care?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (05:13):
Oh my gosh.
I feel like everybody remembers, especially with that first one
, where you're like, oh my gosh,I'm pregnant, Like is this even
real?
And then it's like your lifeflashes before your eyes of like
nothing will ever be the sameagain.
Yeah, that's how it was for me.
I just remember being in our,in our bedroom, and then my
(05:36):
husband walked downstairs, likeyou know, two seconds after I,
you know, had the test and hewas like Is that what I think it
is?
And yeah, he was like no way.
I didn't think we would be that, lucky Cause we really didn't
have any issues getting pregnant, but anyways, yeah it was, it
was.
I haven't thought about thatmoment in a long time.
(05:56):
I remember going to the gymafterwards and I was like on the
elliptical and I'm just like Ihave a secret and nobody knows,
type of thing.
Oh, yeah yeah, yeah.
And then so I decided, where didwe go?
We went to.
That was back when Dr Smith wasstill in practice, so that's
(06:17):
the practice that we went to.
And Natalie that's my first.
She was breached the whole,pretty much the whole time, like
even at the 20 week ultrasound.
Um, I remember the ultrasoundlady being like, oh, she's
already breached and she's like,oh, but she'll probably turn.
And I'm like, okay, and then Ikind of you know, I'm a little
bit more aware of this just fromhaving the pt background.
(06:40):
But so then I started noticingI'm like she doesn't really like
move that much, like her headhead is is just stuck in my left
rib basically, and she neverreally deviated from that
positioning.
So then I now, looking back,I'm like, yeah, I could have
used the spinning baby's bodywork, but it was not available
(07:01):
to me at the time.
So yeah, so then I ended up.
I really wanted to have like anatural birth.
I wanted to do at the time.
So, yeah.
So then I ended up.
I really wanted to have like anatural birth.
I wanted to do all thedifferent positionings, I wanted
to not have the epidural, butthen it was like our 38 week
appointment she was still breechand again she never moved
position and then just like outhere especially in the US and
(07:23):
Maine in general like the breachdeliveries aren't.
I just didn't feel comfortableabout that either.
Like I know that there is a wayto deliver breach safely, but I
think it really depends on theconfidence that your
practitioner has.
And so I just didn't feel I wasnot going to do it.
So we scheduled the C-section.
So I just didn't.
I was like no, not going to doit.
So we scheduled the C-section.
(07:45):
And you know, at first when wemade that decision it was really
hard.
But now, looking back at howthe C-section went, I had
prepared with the hypnobirthingand I did all the meditations
and I thought that that wasactually really helpful going
into like the surgery and I wassuper calm and I just it was
(08:06):
actually a very peaceful, it wasa.
It was a peaceful c-section.
So I'm happy about that.
And I just remember when shecame out she wasn't crying and
the doctors were like, oh mygosh, is she okay?
And I'm like she's fine.
I even knew back then I waslike she's fine, she just she
knows that I'm calm, she's fine.
I even knew back then I waslike she's fine, she just she
(08:27):
knows that I'm calm, like Icould just sense that she knew
that and yeah.
And then they brought her overand put her on my chest and and
yeah, it was.
I mean I had to recover fromthat and good thing I know PT
and we do a lot of like scarmobility, cause I worked pretty
hard on getting my scar afterthat to move well and my abs
came back nicely.
But yeah, honestly, overallthat was a pretty good C-section
(08:47):
, even though it just wasn'twhat I wanted.
But again, the breechdeliveries over here, which I
think in the future that's goingto be a thing that more and
more practitioners arecomfortable with.
But it's a very specific waythat the midwives and the
practitioners would need to knowand kind of a language around
(09:08):
that too was like well, we coulddo it, but you'll probably just
get an emergency C-sectionanyways.
And so even with that beingworded like that, I'm like nope,
we're just going to do theplanned one and call it a day.
So at the time, you know, I dothink it was the right decision.
Maybe again, maybe in thefuture, these breach deliveries
(09:29):
won't be as big of a deal, andjust because our OBGs will have
that training, but we're justdefinitely not there yet.
It's so hard, yeah, yeah, yeah,I know that the um I want to
say to say I actually I don'tknow where these group of
clinicians are from.
I almost want to say likesomewhere in Europe, like France
(09:50):
or something.
But anyways, they recently dida training in Bangor called
Breach Without Borders.
Angela (09:57):
Yes, at the birth center and all the midwives went to it
, which I think is so cool, butstill it's like, it's against,
like their licensure, so youcan't go to them if you have a
breech baby, but if you're undertheir care and you have a
surprise breech baby, they havethese skills.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (10:15):
Oh my gosh, I know it's, it's wild, it's
like this doesn't even makesense.
Angela (10:22):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean it is great that they'reat least learning these skills.
That is so cool, but it's sadthey can't use them.
Yeah.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (10:33):
I know, I totally agree.
Yeah, there's a I should sharethis Instagram account with you.
But she is a midwife and shelike specializes in breech and
twin natural births and she'sgot so many great like videos
and images of of these breachbirths happening and I'm like,
oh my gosh, like this is likebeautiful that she's sharing
(10:55):
this and how it can actually bejust like a normal birthing
experience.
I mean, obviously, like on themidwife and OB perspective.
They're like your what if?
People, so they need to knowall these what if?
Things in case they do happen.
And there are obviously somevery specific what ifs with that
presentation.
But, yeah, I've watched some ofher videos and the way that she
(11:17):
talks about it.
It's like, oh, that makes sense, that makes sense, Like one of
the things she says.
It's like if the chin is up,like extended upward, and like
the head's not coming through,then you don't want to put your
hands up in the vaginal canalbecause that's not going to help
baby come out, but what you dois you put your hands on the
(11:38):
baby's chest and that'll helpbring that chin back down so the
head can come out.
Angela (11:43):
And I'm like, oh my gosh , like wait, more people need to
know about stuff like this.
I would love if it would go inthat direction for sure, because
it is so hard for moms thatthat have breech babies.
There's really almost no choice.
Like it's like okay, you canschedule your C-section or you
can schedule your C-section.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (12:02):
Like what other thing can you have?
things and that's how I gotreally interested in spinning
babies, because they do a lot ofthis like breach positioning,
to do like prior to birth aswell as um.
I ended up taking their likewhat do they call it?
It's like aware practitionercourse, um, where I learned all
(12:22):
this different body work aroundthe there's a bunch of different
ligaments of the uterus andlike your hip flexors and low
back and rib cage and thighs,like all of that connective
tissue that just surrounds thewomb, can get tight and
restricted and then thereforebaby only has enough space to,
(12:44):
you know, be in whatever spaceis available.
So if there is tightness orrestriction they might just get
kind of stuck in that breachposition.
But if, in theory, if you canopen it up through the body work
, then and then do the specificbreach positionings, like a
forward lean inversion is aclassic one that I feel like a
lot of people know about thesedays, you know, just to get that
(13:06):
head pointing down into thepelvis.
Yeah, I've actually had quite afew or not quite a few, but
I've had a handful.
I've had two of them wheretheir babies did flip out of the
(13:27):
maybe three or four that I'vehad in the breach.
Angela (13:31):
So I don't know, that's just you know.
You never know what's going onin there, what's right for them,
but like, and there's alsothose babies that are in there
and are just like you know, kindof like you said, in that
tightness, and just need alittle help getting into the
ideal position and and that's socool yeah, yeah, and that's
(13:54):
what I tell the moms too.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (13:55):
I'm like, if it is from a tightness or
restriction, like the baby willlikely flip with these
techniques, but there's also theplacenta and the cord that we
can't ever know really muchabout and at that point it's out
of our hands and you'll leavethis experience knowing that you
did the best that you could and, yeah, and your baby,
(14:16):
regardless.
I believe that your baby canfeel how much you just care
about them and care about this,and that in itself is something
worth noting too.
Angela (14:26):
Absolutely yeah, that's so true and definitely should
not be overlooked.
So how was your postpartum thenrecovering after your daughter?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (14:36):
My daughter .
Not bad, I, you know.
I'm like I don't know if it wasjust because she was my first
baby and I was, you know, 26years old.
I feel like I bounced back.
It wasn't until the second onewhere I was like, even now I'm
like, I still don't feel.
I still don't feel a hundredpercent, even though I teach
people pelvic floor exercisesevery day.
Angela (14:58):
Yeah.
So to get into your secondbirth story when did you find
out you were pregnant for thesecond time and what were your
thoughts in choosing your care?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (15:08):
Yeah, so Connor Natalie was about two
years old and so we were kind oflike this is going to be a good
timing and again, I've neverhad any issues getting pregnant.
So it was kind of like, oh,maybe we should get pregnant.
And then, boom, we werepregnant.
And I'm trying to think now sothat was when.
So his, his whole pregnancy andbirth was a lot more intense
(15:32):
than my little breach, whichactually I will side note.
My little breach baby, whorefused to turn, is also like
the most independent, bossylittle lady I've ever met.
So I think that's just how shewas in the womb and that's how
she is now.
Angela (15:49):
There might be something to that.
Yes.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (15:52):
Yeah, oh, my gosh.
Literally like two days ago shetold me she was like wearing a
baseball hat and she was likewhoever wears this baseball hat
is the boss.
That means I'm the boss.
I was like okay.
Angela (16:08):
Oh, that's adorable.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (16:11):
I still think Connor he'll be two in
July.
My husband was away on militarytraining for about six months
of my pregnancy, so it wasprobably like two months to
seven or eight months is when hewas gone, Like he just like
wasn't even here.
Um, oh yeah, and I forgot tomention to both my kids I had
(16:33):
gestational diabetes, so thatwas another hurdle to have them.
You know, not that it washorrible, but just that extra
planning that you got to do tomake sure that you're checking
your blood sugars and eatingprotein filled snacks and meal
prepping which I'm not very goodat that stuff anyways and then
(16:54):
at a two year old being pregnantand then no husband around, it
was kind of a I like feel like Ibarely even remember his
pregnancy.
It was so, so busy, oh, and Iwas like running my business.
It was crazy.
But I will say, during hispregnancy, that's really when I
was like I think I'm going tospecialize in pelvic floor, Like
I had been interested in itwith Natalie's birth, but I kind
(17:17):
of thought it was just becauseI was experiencing it and I
thought it was just like a phasethat I was going to get over.
And then by the time Connorcame around, I was like, no, I'm
actually like super passionateabout this and I like really
want to learn more.
So that's when I was like, no,I'm actually like super
passionate about this and I likereally want to learn more.
So that's when I was pregnantwith him, I took, like I don't
know, five different pelvicfloor classes.
So it was great, Cause it'slike all this body work for like
(17:38):
the pregnant belly and I hadthe pregnant belly and um, so
yeah, it was.
It was just a really goodexperience and I feel like that
helps me as a clinician too,Cause it's like I remember how
that body work felt when I wasalso pregnant and then so I
wanted to do a VBAC.
Gosh, I started off at Northernlight, decided I didn't want to
do that, Cause even on like thefirst visit that I went to them,
(18:01):
they were like, well, we kindof do VBACs, but we'll probably
have to induce you and I'm likeI'm like 20 weeks pregnant.
I'm like I don't want to likewhat you don't know.
You've never, you haven't evenlooked at my chart.
It's like in the first fiveminutes of you even meeting me,
you never asked me anythingabout what I wanted either.
So, anyways, got out of there,ended up going down to MDI and
(18:26):
Bar Harbor, Cause I had heardthat the at the the time the
midwives down there, they had areally good team, which I agree,
and then they all left and nowMDI is no more, which is crazy,
I know.
So sad.
Angela (18:41):
Yeah, I can't believe that.
It's wild how fast they'reclosing.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (18:45):
Yeah, oh my gosh, it's just like I feel
like I saw it on Facebook and Iwas like, oh my gosh, like, and
not just MDI, but then it's likeBelfast and somewhere in
Augusta too, right yeah,waterville.
Angela (18:58):
and then the week after MDI announced, holton announced
that they were closing too,which is really crazy too,
because there's like a 200 milelike maternity care desert
Presque Isle to Bangor.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:10):
But yeah, Wow, oh my God, that is yeah,
that's wild.
Oh, I wonder how Bangor isdoing now, because there's not
even that many options in Bangoreither.
Angela (19:21):
Yeah, it's really the only yeah.
There's the one doctor's officeand the other one is a private
office that I think.
At last I heard they were full.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:29):
Yeah, I bet they are full.
Angela (19:33):
It's crazy, but how was your experience at MDI?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (19:37):
Oh my gosh.
So Connor's birth was hard.
My water broke and he was headdown and I'm like, okay, no big
deal.
It was on my due date that hiswater broke and I had been.
And I'm like, okay, no big deal.
Um, it was on my due date thathis water broke and I had been.
And I was like you know what,I'm going to start pumping.
So I did that and literallywhile I was pumping the is when
(19:57):
my water broke, which I'm likethat's probably.
I'm like, no, no, I'm lookingback, I'm like, oh, yeah, that
makes sense.
Maybe I shouldn't have donethat.
But in my mind I was like like,okay, like it's his due date,
we can kind of, you know, getthings started or whatever.
And again, I had been doing alot of prenatal prep, with just
all the body work I've beengetting done and my own like
(20:21):
clinical knowledge of prenatalpositional prep and stuff like
that.
But anyways, I could even justtell it was like my water broke
and I was like, oh, was that it?
Like it was like superanti-climatic.
And so I call my husband andnow we this is in the summertime
, so Natalie goes to grandma andgrandpa's house and then my
(20:42):
husband drives and I drive downto MDI and I'm just walking in
and I'm like I'm I'm in laborand they're like are you?
I'm like I don't know my waterbroke and every once in a while
my belly gets kind of tight.
They're like, okay, so I go upto the I don't know the, the
room like the, where they'regonna check me out, and they're
(21:03):
like, wow, you are not dilatedin any way, shape or form, like
why don't you get a hotel, staythe night and then come back in
the morning?
And so that's what we did.
We went out to eat.
I went through a bunch of pads,cause it was like kind of a lot
.
Um, when my water broke and uh,and I was like Cody, like
(21:24):
nothing's really happening, andlike we went on a walk.
You know, I did a bunch of youknow just movements and stuff,
and it kind of kicked in alittle bit, like I had what I
would imagine is like early,early labor, where the belly
just gets really tight and itkind of feels like period cramps
, but just turned up a couplenotches and then it just never
(21:47):
progressed.
So then I went back in in themorning.
They're like yeah, your cervixstill hasn't dilated and it's
been 24 hours, so we're gonna dothe C section.
And I was like, oh my God, Imade it all this way, you know,
trying to do the V back.
His head is down and anyways,on the heart rate monitor, I
(22:11):
mean they did say that it lookedlike during the contractions
that I was having that his heartrate was de-selling a little
bit.
But now, looking back, it waslike I was just sitting in bed
and maybe I should have gotteninto a couple of different
positions, like that's what menow would have directed myself
(22:31):
to do.
But I was still pretty new withbirth knowledge back then
because I was still learning.
But yeah, so, yeah, I ended upgetting another C-section.
But you know what?
It was a Saturday and it feltlike everybody just wanted to
leave.
So it just got done real quick.
It was fast, it was kind ofaggressive.
(22:53):
My body did not heal very wellfrom that.
Like my lower abdomen is stilllike bloated, my scar is not was
like double the size of what itwas with Natalie.
Yeah, I had a lot of pain afterthat C-section, like probably
for a good three weeks.
And yeah, and I just rememberafter that one I was like, oh my
(23:14):
gosh, I just spent thousands ofdollars learning how to do
pelvic floor therapy and I justI felt like I failed is really
what happened.
So I was kind of in thatheadspace for a really long time
, cause I really in my heart,really truly believed that
having a, you know, a beautifulbirth, beautiful natural birth,
(23:37):
is possible, which it totally is.
It just, you know, it justdidn't happen for me and yeah,
so I don't know how it took.
I think emotionally it took itstoll too.
I'm okay now.
Um, I think it helped that Ihad a lot of clients.
Um, like, I started workingagain just short hours when
Connor was only like eight weeks, but everybody that was coming
(24:00):
in to see me was like totallyinvested in the pregnancy and
birth.
So I got to tell that story alot and I think just retelling
that story over and over againuntil it lost its power over me
was really nice.
And so now when I retell it,I'm like, yeah, I don't know
what happened.
Now I have two crazy littlekids that I chase around and
(24:22):
love so dearly.
Angela (24:24):
Yeah, I think that's a really good point that you bring
up that.
A lot of times we can feel likea failure after our birth if it
doesn't go the way that we hadwanted it to, and that's so far
from the truth.
She's also a pelvic physicaltherapist in Bucksport oh cool.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (24:52):
Yeah, so we connected because we're like on
the same page, like treatmentwise, and she also does the
doula work, so she was there atmy birth, which was so nice.
Like obviously I thought thatshe was going to help me with a
VBAC, but just having her thereCause when with the C-section it
was like my husband and Connorwere in a different room for a
(25:15):
while and then I was by myselfand I would have been by myself
had Casey not been there butlike just having her there, I
just I really, really liked thatsupport.
So, yeah, kind of something tothink about if you do, if
anybody does end up getting aC-section for whatever reason,
it is nice to have anotherperson there.
Angela (25:35):
They'll have a doula, Be with you and help you.
Just to you know, understand,like all the things that are
going on and yeah cause there'slike a lot of like.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (25:50):
It's just it's it's more medical.
Obviously there's a lot morelike medications going in your
body which I mean not that I'mlike a huge fan of, but I was
like I have to take thesebecause otherwise I will like it
.
It's going to be so painful.
I will not be okay.
I won't be able to take care ofthis baby if I don't take the
pain meds.
Yeah, it's going to be sopainful I will not be okay.
Angela (26:09):
I won't be able to take care of this baby if I don't
take the pain meds yeah, it's ahard, like double-edged sword,
compromising on some of thethings that you really didn't
want, but you kind of have to.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (26:18):
You know, to heal and yep, and now I feel
like I have just I got over thethe thought that I'm failure.
I got over that.
I was like that, like no, and Ithink it's probably because I
told enough people where theywere like no, like what you just
told me helped me so much in myown birth and I'm like, oh,
(26:39):
thank God, like I.
Just, you know, for some reasonI just thought if I didn't have
this experience I wasn't goingto be able to help other women
with it.
But now what I what I reallyreally like doing is I do a lot
of prenatal prep where we'redoing the body work to help with
fetal positioning and it helpswith, like pregnancy aches and
(27:01):
pains, making sure that moms arelike standing correctly so that
they don't accidentally givethemselves that pancake flat
butt because they're not usingtheir butt muscles anymore, so
important.
And then I also have been doinga lot of like prenatal prep
where the birth partner willcome in.
(27:23):
Usually it's the husband, solike, he'll get in and I'll
teach him.
I'll, you know, make him puthis hands on her in like
different positions that willhelp to, you know, like hip
squeezes and tailbone slides,and I even teach him
specifically how you, how do doa back massage to help with the
contraction pain and to helpwith the fetal positioning?
(27:45):
And I'm press start practicingthis all now.
Just start start doing it now.
And the moms are like, oh, hishomework is to get me a massage.
I'm like, yes, and, and so I.
I think that's been helpful formy clients.
That's the feedback that I'vegotten so far is like the guy
feeling a little bit lessdisplaced in the whole situation
(28:06):
, um, and a little bit moreconnected with what's happening,
because I do think that theguys get a little bit pushed off
to the side.
Yet I really believe that theyhave a really important role in
just helping mom to.
It's almost like as mothers wehelp regulate our kids' nervous
systems.
When we're calm, then they canbe calm too.
(28:30):
Kind of the same with thepartner in that situation, like
if he can help mommy regulateher nervous system, then that
baby's going to come out so muchmore smooth.
Angela (28:39):
Yeah, and so I love that .
So do you do classes forcouples or is it sort of more
just one-on-one?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (28:48):
Yep, so far it's been one-on-one.
I don't necessarily have thespace to do multiple people, but
yeah, so they'll get thatone-on-one attention and I'll
I'll put my hands on his andmake sure that he's got the
pressure right and he's usingthe right, you know, aspect of
his hand, and they love it.
Like I feel like the guys are alittle bit more like
mechanically minded.
(29:09):
So I get my pelvis out and Ilike show him how the pelvic
bones move.
And he's like, oh, this makessense.
And I'm like, yeah, it does,like that's great.
And then sometimes the mom islike, are you getting this?
And he's like, oh, yeah, I gotit, like I understand exactly
what she's talking about.
And then the moms are like,okay, good Cause, that was a
(29:29):
little over my head, wow.
Angela (29:32):
That's amazing.
So you do a lot of prep withfamilies before the birth.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (29:36):
Yeah, I do have a fair amount of people
Like it's like ladies will reachout when they're pregnant,
either like they want to makesure they're doing safe exercise
or they just like really wantto prepare and learn about birth
as much as possible.
Um, I do tend to attract theones that would prefer to not
have epidurals, um and and yeah.
(30:00):
So then I do the partner prep,which is probably what I would
call the birth coaching stuff,basically teaching your, your
partner, how to be your birthcoach, so that when you, when
you get to the big day, it'slike you've already had that
practice time together, so it itflows a little bit more
naturally.
Um.
And then I do some postpartumrecovery stuff, cause obviously
your pelvic floor and core youknow they just get stretched out
(30:23):
for nine months because they'resupporting a growing baby and
they just need to be retrainedin a specific way so that you're
not accidentally putting toomuch pressure down into the
pelvic floor and that can causethings like back pain, hip pain,
the diastasis which is likethat, ab separation, bladder
(30:44):
leakage, prolapse issues.
So the postpartum recovery is alot of avoiding those things.
But I do see a lot of women whohave those things and then we're
fixing and addressing them.
So I would say most of myclients are probably between the
ages of like 25 and up to maybelike 60 is usually the people
that I'm helping.
(31:05):
And yeah, I do help a decentamount of women who are like oh,
I didn't even know that youwere supposed to do anything
after having babies Like I hadmy babies 17 years ago is all
hope lost?
I'm like, no, no, I'm so gladyou're here, like we will
address all these things and getyou back to being functional
again.
Angela (31:26):
Yeah, even issues that have been going on for a long
time.
I feel like that was yeah, like.
I had never heard of a pelvicfloor therapist after my first
birth.
That was like hard and yeah, itwasn't until you started doing
like the doula stuff that I waslike.
Oh, pelvic floor therapy Likewhy did nobody tell me about
this after my birth?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (31:43):
Oh, my gosh .
I seriously it blows my mindLike anything in the Euro gyno
region.
Like I have had clients toothat have started reaching out
to me because they're like I'mgoing to get a hysterectomy but
I'm concerned about my pelvicfloor health and I'm like let's
get you in for some prehab,let's get you in after your
(32:03):
surgery, because I mean we dothat in every other part of the
body.
Like you get a knee surgery andyou get you know PT to like
help strengthen around your knee.
Kind of the same thing withhaving babies.
Like you're, you will not nothave a baby without having some
sort of core or pelvic floorchanges and they just need to be
(32:25):
rehabbed and retrained.
I tell everybody I'm like everywoman needs a pelvic floor
physical therapist.
Angela (32:32):
Yeah, that's what it seems like.
I feel like the more I learnabout it.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (32:36):
Yeah, it's always like so surprising for
clients when they come in andthey're like, oh my gosh, I
didn't know that that's wherethat issue was coming from.
But now that you're liketouching that muscle, that makes
sense why I'm feeling this wayor I'm having the symptom.
So it's really like insightfulfor the ladies that come in and
I don't know, I have a lot offun teaching it too.
(32:59):
Yeah, well, that always likehelps when you're working with
somebody who's really passionateabout it oh yeah, I'm like
constantly like I just am thatpersonality type where I
probably have like fivedifferent books open all at once
and yeah, so I'm likeconstantly reading about really
anything.
But a lot of it is like pelvicfloor related, birth related,
(33:21):
hormone related, because I thinkthat's interesting and nobody
understands women's of.
It is like pelvic floor related, birth related, hormone related
, because I think that'sinteresting and nobody
understands women's hormones.
Angela (33:26):
It seems like yeah, I feel like in the natural birth
communities there's a lot offocus on the hormonal blueprint
of birth and just the idea ornotion that you should just
always trust birth and that itwill always unfold to the way
it's supposed to.
But sometimes there's more toit than that, and I think the
(33:47):
biomechanical process of birthis something that really
deserves more attention.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (33:53):
Yes, and that's a lot of what I teach in
the partner prep classes.
That I'll do with people is likeget the husband on the same
page of like.
If you can kind of figure outwhere baby's head is, if they're
above in the or like above thepelvis, in the pelvis or coming
out of the pelvis, based onthose three things, then you can
(34:16):
be very deliberate and how youknow you're helping her move her
ankle so that her hip isrotated a certain way, because
you would lift the ankle up atthe end of birth but you might
lift the knee up at thebeginning of birth.
So it's stuff like that.
Or at the beginning of thebirth you're probably going to
(34:38):
have more success in a more likehip extension, walking upright
type of position and then as youget down into like in the birth
canal and coming out, you mightbe better in like the quadruped
position or sideline or like arunning lunge where you're
getting the pelvic floor to openup.
So that's all the stuff that Iteach them when they come into
(35:00):
the to the classes.
And again, I have all my modelstoo.
So I'm so visual that I yeah,they leave having a good picture
in their mind of what the heckis going on.
Angela (35:13):
That's so good and so helpful.
I think it.
Yeah, just like being preparedin any way that you can.
It feels right to you Like justlearn about what's going to
happen to you, like in the birthexperience, and that just helps
you go, you know, through thewhole thing smoother yeah, yeah,
that's so true, like they'rejust kind of having a little bit
of an idea of what to expectand what these different
(35:34):
sensations mean too.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (35:36):
Oh, actually, that's.
The other thing that I do withclients is like with the pelvic
exam.
It's an internal exam wherewe're assessing the pelvic floor
muscles and a lot of timeswomen don't know how to relax
them very well and that is whatthey need to learn in order to
have their pelvis open up andgive birth.
(35:58):
Like it's more of like thepelvic floor needs to relax.
It doesn't need to tighten up.
I would argue that most peopleoveruse their pelvic floor and
that's where we get the weakbutt muscles.
So it's like if you can relearnhow to use your butt muscles so
you're not overusing yourpelvic floor, then your pelvic
floor will have more flexibilityto then be able to be relaxed
(36:20):
and it'll be easier for you tofor the baby to come out.
Angela (36:25):
So don't do Kegels to prepare for birth.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (36:28):
No, no.
They literally like do theopposite, get that to go down,
not up, cause you might be justmaking a tight muscle even
tighter, which is not helpinganything.
Out of all of the women that Ihave seen and evaluated, I can
think of two that have, but thatprobably could have used just
(36:52):
the Kegel trainer to get moretension into those muscles too.
Otherwise everybody else hasbeen like, wow, that's
surprisingly really tense andtight and hurts and it doesn't
feel good.
Angela (37:06):
and I'm like, yeah, yeah , I'm glad you're here yeah, if
you're doing something and it'slike hurting or not feeling good
, that's usually a pretty goodred flag to stop doing that
thing.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (37:17):
I think that's the sneaky thing, though,
about pelvic floor is like youdon't know.
A lot of women don't realize orknow until they get the
assessment.
And then it's like oh, becauseit's like we have such a hard
time perceiving those muscles,because I know who talks about
pelvic floor muscles.
Like you know, you don't gettaught that in school or how to
(37:39):
contract them well, or even likeone of the first things I'll
have clients do is like sit ontheir hands.
I'm like you're sitting on yourpelvic floor, like can you feel
that?
Like can you, can you get it tomove up and down?
Can you start mapping that inyour mind of what those muscles
even feel like?
Because so many women justdon't have they've like oh, I've
(37:59):
never thought about it likethat before.
So I had a client come in theother day that was like well, I
know I needed to come in becausesomebody told me to, but I
can't help but wonder if this isjust like a fad, because I keep
seeing it on instagram, youknow, if it's just like some
marketing trend, I don't know.
I kind of chuckled.
(38:19):
I was like yeah, there is a lotof just not of superficial
stuff out there, but the beautyis there's.
There's a decent amount ofpelvic floor pts, although maybe
not so much in Maine.
There's not a whole lot inBangor.
Angela (38:36):
I know, I know there's not very many like up north even
.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (38:40):
Also, I wonder if you get a lot of
people like coming down fromfrom there but I had I know that
there is a lady in preskylebecause she actually reached out
to me because she was going tobe gone and she had a client
that really wanted to continueand and she reached out to me.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm likehours away from Presque Isle,
but yeah.
(39:02):
Um, yeah, so yeah, up North I'mnot.
Yeah, I know there's at leastone, but beyond that, yeah, I
know it's, it's hard, it's.
This is a definitely aspecialty that's just now
starting to become more and morecommon within the PT community.
Even like five to 10 years ago,there was not very many pelvic
(39:22):
health providers very few andfar between.
Angela (39:25):
So would you share a little bit more about how we can
find you?
Dr. Meaghan Staples (39:29):
Yes, so I um, I have a pretty active
Instagram, so you can follow meif you like Instagram, or
actually on Facebook too.
It's at refine R E FN-E dotphysical therapy.
Otherwise, I do have.
I have a website that's got alot of blog posts on it as well,
and that'srefinedphysicaltherapycom, and
(39:53):
if you have any questions, I dofree phone consultations that
are usually like 20 to 30minutes in length.
So if you do have any questionsand think that you might need
the service, I'd love to talk toyou about it.
Angela (40:07):
So I was exploring your website,
refinephysicaltherapycom beforeour call today, and I came
across your blog, which Ithought had a lot of really
great posts about some goodtopics that don't get talked
about enough.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (40:20):
Oh, thank you.
Yeah, you know what?
I get a lot of my ideas justfrom stuff that people ask me
about.
I'm like oh yeah, I should.
You're probably not the onlyone that's wondering about it.
Yeah, I feel like those arequestions that people don't
realize that there actuallymight be some answers to as well
.
Like they, this is definitely asubject that we tend to not
(40:43):
tell anybody about.
Or maybe you've been to yourdoctor before and they just kind
of are like you're pregnant oryou're going through menopause,
and then it kind of gets brushedto the side when when really
there are a lot of deeper rootcauses to to these things yeah,
it's like when you start lookinginto it yourself, you find that
there is support for you outhere, but like nobody's really
(41:05):
telling you about it.
Angela (41:06):
So this is us telling you about it.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (41:09):
Yes, this is us telling you about it.
Angela (41:12):
Oh, I love it.
Well, I'm going to link all ofyour information so people can
find you in the show notes.
And yeah, it was just such apleasure chatting with you.
Thank you so much for coming on, and taking the time.
Dr. Meaghan Staples (41:24):
Yes, thank you so much.
I've had fun.
Angela (41:28):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
labor of love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(41:50):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(42:11):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at
mymainbirth over on Instagram.
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