116. MyMaine Birth: Chelsea's Journey through Home Birth, Loss, and Coming Back Stronger

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chelsea (00:00):
You are my birth photographer for the second
birth and the photos from thatlike I don't know for me.
It takes me a while to likeprocess my birth and to
understand what happened, andbecause there's so much emotion
there and it's kind of likeburied by the emotion, so I have
to like sort through that firstand then I can get to the story

(00:21):
.
But the photos helped me seelike the concrete reality
earlier, because I have that.
You know, it's like, oh, that'sthe timestamp, that's like what
happened.
Then you know and that's thewhere this person was standing
or not standing, and then justlike the memory, you know, of

(00:43):
that is being captured.
So, and something that occurredto me when I was processing, it
was like you hire your birthteam whoever it's going to be,
to like pretty much to manageyour birth and to intervene
usually.
So they're going to change thecourse of your birth or to do

(01:03):
something.
But a birth photographer is likea pure witness and that's like
a super high honor when you givebirth, it's just to have
somebody there who's like just awitness just to record it for
you.
So that was really special tohave and I really appreciate
that, Just that doing that forpeople as a, as a career, as a,

(01:29):
you know, a job, because it'sit's much more, I don't know, I
think emotionally, like so muchmore important in a lot of ways
than like the changing thecourse of birth, versus just
like here's what happened, youknow, here's your story, here
are your photos and like, yeah,it's just very helpful, like
emotionally and to process it.

Angela (01:52):
I'm Angela, and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.

(02:13):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
This is episode 116.
This has been a super fun weekfor me, because I have spent

(02:36):
most of the last week designingphoto albums for the families
that I've worked with recently.
In case you didn't know, whenyou sign up for either my Fly on
the Wall birth package or mySisterhood package, which
includes birth photography anddoula support, they both also
include a custom maternity photosession as well as an heirloom
photo album that's filled withyour favorite maternity and

(02:57):
birth photos.
These are a huge hit,particularly with the older
siblings, but even if it's yourfirst baby, they're just so
special To me.
The digital photos are nice,but I mean you can only scroll
through your phone and look atthe photos, so much.
That's a limited way to enjoythem.
For me, really, it's about thealbums and the framed prints and
the canvases that really letyou enjoy the images in a whole

(03:21):
new way and for many years tocome.
The photo products that I offerwith my sessions are the ones
that I love and have of my ownfamily in my home.
To learn more about how you canwork with me, head over to my
website, mymainbirthcom, or youcan always send mea message over
on Instagram at mymainbirth.

(03:41):
Today's birth story guest isChelsea.
I had the incredible honor ofbeing Chelsea's fly-on-the-wall
birth photographer for heryoungest daughter, marla's birth
last spring.
All right, hi, chelsea, welcometo my Main Birth.
Hello, so to get started, wouldyou share a little bit about

(04:01):
you and your family?

Chelsea (04:04):
Yeah, so my name is Chelsea.
We live in Millinocket.
It's me, my husband Henning,our two daughters and two cats
and two dogs so a big crew.
Henning and I met more than 10years ago when we were in
college in Missouri.
He's actually from Germany, sowe met while he was an exchange

(04:25):
student there.
And then I ended up in Mainebecause I got an internship at
Baxter State Park.
I had never been to theNortheast at all, I had never
been like east of theMississippi River, so it was
like right out of college.
I just wanted something shortin between going.
I was going back to college formy master's degree, so I wanted

(04:46):
something in between and I yeah, I just took this random
internship and it really changedmy life.
It changed my perspective ofmyself.
I fell in love with Maine.
I didn't stay at that time andthat was actually exactly 10
years ago today, so it's likelike when I was starting that
job.
So it's a pretty special timeof the year for me, but I didn't

(05:08):
stay here forever.
So I've moved around, lived indifferent places, but we ended
up back here in Maine and threeyears ago bought a house in
Millinocket.

Angela (05:18):
Yeah, oh, my goodness, wow.
So now to get into your birthstories, would you start by
sharing a little bit about howyou found out you were pregnant
for the first time and yourthoughts in choosing your care?

Chelsea (05:32):
Yeah, so I've always been really interested in birth.
So I think like to to get tolike how I chose my care and get
to that point in our lives.
I've always just been superobsessed with birth and when I
was a kid I would like watchcats giving birth and, like I
live pretty rural, so I got tosee a lot of that type of thing.
I watched like birth ER showsback in the day when it would be

(05:55):
like on cable TV.
Yeah, so I just was alwaysobsessed with it.
I thought I wanted to be likean ultrasound specialist.
I went to like several familymembers and friends, births and
hospital, so I was very aware oflike how it worked in the
hospital setting.
But in my 20s I started to havelike some weird health stuff.

(06:20):
It was nothing major, but itwas just enough for me to like
need to seek out help and itwasn't stuff that, like modern
medicine was like giving meclear answers for, which, for me
, was strange, because I'm avery science minded person.
I've been a science teacher, Ihave science degrees, I love
science and I still do, but Ijust didn't really understand

(06:42):
like why modern medicine wasn'thelping me.
So I was living in Germany atthe time.
So I had the luxury of gettingto like try out different
clinics and stuff without havingto pay a bunch of money.
So I ended up in a naturopath.
She didn't do anything likephysically for me, there was no
intervention.
It was literally just like asit down conversation that we

(07:04):
had where she gave me advice andI followed it and I, like, was
on the path to getting better.
So that changed my mind aroundmedical care and just generally
like how our health works andthings like that.
So I got really interested inthinking about birth in that way
.
When I started to think aboutstarting a family, in thinking

(07:25):
about birth in that way, when Istarted to think about starting
a family.
So years before I got pregnant,I was already like I'm probably
not going to give birth in thehospital.
I get really nervous indoctor's offices.
I have a lot of just generalanxiety, so I try to find ways
to make sure that it doesn't getspiked up.
And in hospital settingsdoctors settings like that's a

(07:47):
place where I can get reallystressed, and so I I try to
avoid them at all costs when Ican.
So I thought like if otheranimals can give birth with no
issues, then humans probably can, and we always did.
And of course there are caseswhere you need help and you need
to go to the doctor, to thehospital.

(08:09):
But if everything is fine, thenit's fine.
And that was kind of themindset.
I went into doing some research.
So it was probably two or threeyears before I got pregnant
that I had landed on that.
I was interested in givingbirth at home.
I also met somebody during thattimeframe who had given birth
at home, so I actually knew aperson.

(08:30):
It was also while I lived inGermany.
So like, fast forward, we movedto Colorado.
I was working at a school.
It was like really intense Alot of hours as a residential
school, and then the pandemichit.
So a lot of things changed andwe had already planned on

(08:51):
getting pregnant around thattime, like we're big planners,
so we'd like to have likeeverything lined up.
Here's what we want to do.
So we were like I guess it'sstill a good time to get
pregnant.
It was like April 2020.
So you know, I didn't reallyknow what was going to happen,
but it was like you know, wedon't really have much else to
do.
So we started trying and thatpregnancy was really quick, like

(09:19):
got pregnant month one, and Ididn't expect that to happen.
I like grew up hearing a lot ofstories about miscarriages
because my mom had a ton ofmiscarriages.
So I kind of thought, yeah,they can happen and it can take
time to get pregnant, and so Ithought we had some time and
maybe we'll have a baby nextsummer, and this was like spring

(09:42):
of the year before.
So I was thinking like it'sgoing to take a while.
But then, yeah, it was Mother'sDay, 2020.
I got a positive pregnancy testand I was like, oh, this was
very fitting.
But I was not like yeah, I waslike, oh my gosh, it's actually
positive.
Like like freaked out how theseplans in my mind, if I was

(10:03):
going to surprise hitting anddid not.
I just had to like go get him,like hey, can you please like
look at this and tell me if I'mhallucinating, like kind of
thing.
Um, but he was excited.
We were definitely superexcited.
But I remember plugging in thedue date to like some kind of
due date calculator online and Iwas like January, that's like

(10:24):
really soon.
Like I couldn't believe, likethat it was a baby was going to
come.
So that pregnancy went reallysmoothly.
This baby is now four and ahalf, so that was.
It's not super fresh on my mindanymore, but I still vividly
remember certain things.
Of course it was my firstpregnancy.

(10:45):
I did a couple of interviewswith different midwives in the
area.
This was northern Colorado, soI kind of just had no idea what
I was doing.
I didn't know how to pick amidwife or how any of that
worked at all.
It was also really weirdbecause of the pandemic, because
everybody was doing differentthings than they normally did.
So there a lot of like all theconsultations I remember were

(11:08):
just like over zoom.
But I found a midwife that had,I think I mostly picked her
because she felt the most likelaid back about everything and
her prices were also like, Ithink, the lowest.
So it's kind of like I didn'tknow what I was thinking and she
was very experienced.
So that was another thing.

(11:29):
She'd been practicing for along time so I thought, well, it
should probably be a decentmidwife.
And yet there was a lot ofstress during that pregnancy
because of the pandemic and Iwas switching jobs.
We moved.
Colorado had a really massivewildfire that year so we lost
the area where we would gohiking.

(11:50):
We couldn't go there anymore sowe would try to travel to other
places, but it would be supercrowded and sometimes the air
quality was bad.
I remember as it got closerinto the winter it got a little
bit better.
But then I was like, gettingfurther along in my pregnancy
Teaching was just crazy too atthe time.
Like I was like I have no ideawhat I'm doing and like I'm

(12:12):
doing all these different weirdthings that I didn't train for
because, like online, offline,getting quarantined and just
crazy like switches.
So that wasn't ideal and Ididn't have any leave, so I
couldn't just take leave, whichI wish I could have been able to
do.
But other than that, I wassuper relaxed about things.

(12:34):
I did get some ultrasounds.
I just could not grasp the factthat I had a baby in my body,
so it was like I really held onthose ultrasounds as like proof
that, okay, this is a babygrowing in me, like not some
weird alien or something Um.
So that was, uh, probably theextent of like, um the medical.

(12:57):
I didn't even I never steppedinto a hospital or anything.
I just went into like themidwife's um's little office
that she had and I made themistake of telling people my
exact due date, which I learnedthat lesson that time because it
drove me insane.
I kept getting bothered byco-workers saying, okay, like

(13:19):
looking at their watch everytime I walked through the door,
like you got two weeks left,you've got like counting down
the days and and then my duedate of course came and passed
and I wasn't really like worriedabout it.
But it was kind of a weird timefor my due date because my
birthday was coming up.
So I was really fixated on likeis the baby going to be born on

(13:41):
my birthday or after mybirthday, I don't know.
It was like a interesting likeoverlap of dates and my birthday
came and went, so that was likefive or six days past my due
date and co workers were gettingso annoying.
And that's when I say I wishthat I would have just told them
like February or or I couldhave just taken off of work and

(14:06):
not gone entirely, because thatwas just annoying.
It's just like I don't want tothink about this.
It's.
You know, I'm trying to relax,I'm trying to.
I did some like hypnobirthingclasses and but I was like I
have no idea what labor is goingto feel like I've been a runner
for many years and I alwaysfelt like I could really plan

(14:28):
for runs because I couldpractice, I could go out and do
so.
I've run some marathons and I'dgo out and do 20-mile runs and
be like, okay, well, six more isa marathon and that's what I'm
going to experience.
But with labor, it's like Ihave no idea I can't practice
labor.
It's like I have no idea Ican't practice labor.

(15:07):
I have no idea what it's goingto feel like and I have no idea
how to handle that.
So, yeah, that made me prettynervous that I couldn't
anticipate what it was going tofeel like, and so it's kind of
fixated on that.
It really explained exactlywhat's happening in each phase
of labor and like differentbreathing techniques and some of
the just like the calminginformation, like statistics
around labor and birth andpregnancy and how it normally
goes and what's normal and how.
Like in this hypnobirthingcourse was very focused on home
birth and like how safe it wasand and so those things.

(15:28):
Like I felt really calm andconfident about that part of it,
just not how I was going to beable to handle labor, which
maybe a lot of people will feelthat way and I think I still
feel that way, even if I wentinto like a third pregnancy.

Angela (15:43):
But just tell me how many miles is the labor gonna be
?

Chelsea (15:46):
yeah, right like just somebody tell me like how many
hours I'm gonna have to havethis kind of contraction or how
close together they're gonna be,or you know, it's like who
knows, it's always different.
Um, so I finally let's see gotup like I just remember it was a
Monday night, which was my duedate, was originally a Wednesday

(16:10):
, and in Colorado at least, backthen they can't home birth,
midwives can't attend homebirths past 42 weeks.
So I was kind of like, lookingat this timeframe, like what's
going to happen if I get to thatpoint?
So I remember I had my 41 weekappointment, which was on the

(16:32):
weekend, and so my due date wassupposed to be the next
Wednesday and I was like I don'thave that much time left right,
like what's, I don't know whatI'm going to do.
I'm not going to the hospital.
I've never even been to thesehospitals before.
And then she started talking tome about like, did you take
ovulation tests?
I was like, yes, I was veryclosely tracking my cycle.

(16:53):
I hadn't been on birth controlfor years before I got pregnant,
so I had been closely liketracking my ovulation and
fertility so I knew exactly whenI ovulated and it was very
convenient for us because itpushed my due date forward.
When she looked at that, soshe's like oh, you've got four
more days.
But she was so relaxed aboutlike you're going into labor.

(17:16):
We're not going to talk aboutthe hospital, we're not talking
about that happening, but you'regoing to go into labor.
It just doesn't happen that youdon't go into labor at some
point.
So she was kind of like veryrelaxed about these things.
I was a little bit uncertainabout her as I got towards the
end of my pregnancy,unfortunately.
I started to feel like I'm notsure she's the right person to

(17:36):
be in my birth space.
I think she might have been.
I don't want to speak for her,but maybe she was stressed.
The pandemic stressed everybodyout.
She did end up not, she's not amidwife anymore, so she retired
like in between then and now.
So maybe she was like at theend of her career and was just
like done with the sleepdeprivation.

(17:57):
I don't know what exactly wenton with that, but I started to
feel like she was a bitdisconnected or something.
I just was like I don't knowlike, but she had a student with
her that I really loved and Ifelt like I did want her to be
at my birth and she had doulaexperience so she was very

(18:18):
connected emotionally and wouldsay things to me like hey, what,
what relaxes you?
Or um, what do you think you'regoing to want when you're in
labor from the people around youand was asking questions like
that.
So that was helpful for a firsttime mom.
But I went into labor rightafter that 41 week appointment.
It was a Monday night.
I got a little leak while I waseating dinner and it was a

(18:44):
little bit of wetness in myunderwear kind of thing.
I had no idea what it was, so Ijust went to bed.
I didn't like stress about it.
It was nothing, it was like atiny amount.
Started having contractions thatnight, took the day off of work
.
Finally the next day, likestill had not stopped working, I
didn't go into work, wasthinking okay, I'm in labor, and

(19:05):
then labor stopped.
So I just hung out at home thatday and then that night I had
more contractions.
I was actually up a lot of thatnight and then the next morning
I was like fully in labor,regular contractions, just at
home.
It was a sunny, really coldColorado winter day.
It was like a very gradualincrease of contractions, so

(19:30):
they were pretty spread out andover a very gradual amount of
time they get closer and closertogether.
By midday, I remember, Icouldn't really think about what
I was doing or I was reallyfocused on like just breathing
and I was walking around a lotof my house.
The midwife came and she waslike, oh, you've got like

(19:50):
probably another seven hours.
I didn't want any cervicalchecks at all, like my entire
prenatal care.
But I wasn't really sure thenlike about birth, and so then I
asked her if she would do one umduring that that visit, because
I thought I don't know it.
One during that that visitbecause I thought I don't know.
It's so funny because it's like, yeah, I know it's not going to
give me any information that Ineed right now, but whenever I'm

(20:13):
in labor I'm like sure maybeyou'll tell me something I need
to know right now, of course.
So I think that was maybe apart of.
It was like, oh, you're notdilated, dilated that much.
You've got a little while and Iwill say she was right.
I mean I was in labor.
For the rest of the day it gotmore and more intense.
It got to the point where I waslike, oh my gosh, when is this

(20:35):
going to be?
Oh, like I just could not wrapmy head around what was
happening to my body.
It was like just so intense andI just really remember like the

(20:55):
sun being on my face and it waslike the afternoon sun and just
being like, oh my gosh, this islike the most intense thing
I've ever done.
And just like Henning sittingnext to me and I'm just like how
can he just be sitting there socalm, like while this is going
on inside my body, so calm, likewhile this is going on inside
my body.
But it was just us at home.
So I think you know it was justlike intense, but it just
happened normally.
I felt pretty calm overall,like safe, I guess, is the word.

(21:20):
And then, I think sometimearound seven or 8pm, the
midwives started to show up.
I was like totally lost trackof time.
It was pitch black upstairs.
I started getting sweaty,taking off my clothes, kind of
thing, and I remember looking atthe student midwife and saying
like I'm not getting a break.
Where's the break?
Like there's no break betweencontractions.
It was like back to back toback contractions.
It was a lot of contractions,contractions.

(21:40):
It was a lot of contractions andmy first was born around 1030
at night.
So it was kind of like thewhole day, I guess, about 15
hours of labor and I was in allkinds of different positions and
I've noticed this with myselfboth of my birth.
They just like end up on myback on my bed.

(22:01):
I was just like I want to geton my bed and I don't know, I
like lose control of my legs, soI'm like I have to.
I have to like get off of mylegs at the very last like thing
and and with her this wasreally interesting because of
the contrast between my twobirths she just like flew out.
I think there's this thingcalled like fetal ejection

(22:24):
something there's like a termfor it where you don't push
Reflex yeah.
She just, yeah, I didn't push atall.
And there was an assistantmidwife there that I had only
met once before my labor, so Ididn't have a lot of
conversations with her.
We definitely talked with myother midwife about stuff like

(22:44):
coaching to push and which issomething I had learned in my
hypnobirthing that I did notwant.
So we had that conversation.
She was like, oh, I don't dothat and she doesn't.
She didn't, but her assistantwas doing it.
So that was super annoyingBecause you know, I don't know,
in labor it's like your, yourbrain's not working right,
you're not able to be like no,actually that's not right.

(23:06):
Like your prefrontal cortex isoff, I think.
So you're like not thinkingconsciously about hey, stop
saying that, stop doing that.
So like the influence of hertelling me when to push was
really confusing because I'dfeel in my body like I don't
need to push, like my body'sdoing it.
But then she would be likereally push, push, push, okay,

(23:29):
okay, you can push now, and itwas just like, no, I don't need
to push.
But yeah, you came all out likein one contraction, head to toe
, and was on my chest and it waslike, oh, it's a baby, like I
was like I had no, I, my braincould not register that it was a
baby, um, so that was like areally mostly like a good memory

(23:54):
for me of everything and somelittle annoying things like like
the pushing, coaching to push,and just kind of like I don't
know the disconnect a little bitfrom that.
The primary midwife, but thestudent like they cleaned my
house.
I mean they totally like youknow it was like 2am by the time
they left made sure that wewere all like clean and cuddled

(24:18):
up in bed and you know it wassuper cold that night and you
know, so it's like being outuntil 2 am on a freezing cold
winter night making sure thatall of my bedding was clean and
all of the birth stuff waspicked up.
Because I remember waking upthe next day and being like, wow
, my house is so clean and itdoesn't look like anybody gave

(24:40):
birth here.
But yeah, euni was a littlelike six pounds something.
Um, she just felt so tiny.
She's a tiny little baby and,yeah, that that's.
That was my first birth.
The postpartum period wasreally calm and nice because of
the pandemic, like that actuallymade the postpartum period

(25:01):
really nice, because nobodybothered us and there was
nowhere to go and nowhere to be,um so yeah, yeah, that's
amazing.

Angela (25:08):
Just not even wanting to go out because nothing's open.

Chelsea (25:12):
Yeah, there was no pressure.
We didn't have any other kids,just chilled at home, had a lot
of food that we had preppedbeforehand and um, it was
breastfeed.
The breastfeeding stuff wasinteresting the first time.
For me it was not like the moststraightforward, but, um, we
got the hang of it and she wasfine.
She gained a ton of weight inthe first month, like her

(25:34):
newborn the month one.
Pictures are hilarious becauseshe just got so chubby, but she
ended up breastfeeding foralmost two years.
So, yeah, it went pretty wellafter that.

Angela (25:46):
Oh, that's awesome.
Was there something that cameup where they had called an
ambulance for some reason?

Chelsea (25:52):
I can't exactly remember it was um, that was a
comment that the midwife made.
So the the very like last partof my labor, like right before
she was born, there were justlike a couple of contractions
where I think they expected thatthey were going to be more

(26:13):
productive, but they weren't.
And then she just kind of madethis comment like okay, you got
to push the baby out now, or I'mcalling the ambulance.
It was just like a very like itmade no sense at all in that
moment because the baby wascoming out, and I think for me
it was like clearly, you know,there is no end to the contract.
It was like continued, myuterus was continuously

(26:35):
contracting and it was just amatter of like moments before
she came out.
So, yeah, it was just like a aweird.
No ambulance was called oranything.
It was just one of these weirdlike power play kind of comments
.
It felt like like I don't know,I didn't understand the purpose
of it and there was never, um,and never, you know, never like

(26:58):
a debriefing of birth or neverany kind of like here's what
happened and here's like why,here's what happened and here's
like why, here's what I thinkabout the birth, or you know.
And so I remember asking myselfquestions like was it normal?
Like was there some reason whythe midwife was like saying that
kind of thing or asking me.

(27:18):
She would ask me questions likepostpartum appointments, Like
do you think you'd ever givebirth at home again?
She's kind of asking me thesequestions like almost like she
assumed that the answer was no,or I was just feeling really
self-conscious, I don't know.
It was just kind of like aweird, I think, way to talk to
somebody who just gave birth athome.
I was just like I don't know, Ijust gave birth at home.

(27:51):
I'm not really thinking aboutthat right now, but I did get to
talk to the student midwife whowas there like a couple months
after I gave birth and she gaveme like her insight and it was
really helpful.
Helpful because she was justreally like your birth was
beautiful, it was normal.
You know, everything was safe,Like there was nothing
concerning was normal.
You know everything was safe,Like there was nothing
concerning, you know.
It just gave me that peace ofmind of like okay, there was
nothing alarming or strange thatI needed to like keep in mind

(28:14):
or for next time.
Or I think sometimes I don'tfit into the home birth box that
people like to create, like thepeople who home birth and the
people who don't home birth.
I think sometimes I'm notreally in that stereotype and so
it kind of confuses people.
But I don't think there'sreally a box for that.

(28:39):
It's everybody's different andwe have our own personal
preferences, and I just like togive birth at home because it
feels like the best option forme.

Angela (28:45):
So yeah, exactly.
Usually.
Wherever a woman feels safestis where they're going to choose
to give birth.

Chelsea (28:52):
Yeah, yeah, I totally, I totally agree with that and so
, and that looks different foreverybody, so yeah.

Angela (28:59):
So now would you share about when you found out you
were pregnant for the next time?

Chelsea (29:06):
Yeah.
So this is when Maine comesback into the picture.
So when she was nine months old, we moved to Maine again and we
she was about.
So it was like probably a fullyear at least after we moved
back we had already settled into our house we live in now.
So we thought we were justgoing to wait until she was two

(29:28):
just to give her a good solidtwo years of full-on mom and dad
before trying for another.
But when we bought our houseand got settled in, we were like
, no, we're ready, let's juststart trying.
And I had it in my head, I thinkI don't know.
It's like when you have oneexperience, you kind of expect
that to happen again and again.
Like we're planner type ofpeople, so we like want to be

(29:51):
able to predict what's going tohappen, and we grasp onto that a
little bit too much.
So I was thinking like, okay,it's just gonna be the same
thing, hopefully, like I'm gonna.
You know, you never know.
You can just get pregnant thefirst time, and like that's it.
And so I think I was hoping forthat, but it took a while.
I don't know if it'scoincidence or not.
I had my cycle back.

(30:11):
I was still breastfeeding, butI had my cycle back.
So I thought I'm gonna getpregnant, like you can get
pregnant without your cycle.
So, of course, like I have mycycle, I should not have any
issues, but I did.
I didn't get pregnant until themonth after she 100% weaned.
So I feel like it had somethingto do with that.
But and she like completelyself-weaned it was just kind of

(30:33):
like she woke up and forgotabout it one day yeah, it was
like a month before she turnedtwo, but the month after that we
found out we were pregnant.
So it was about six months oftrying, which for us felt like a
long time.
Like there's like whoa, youknow, why is it not happening?
Like over and over and overagain, and that, you know six

(30:54):
months is probably nothing inthe perspective of like people
who really try for a long time,but it can feel like forever if
you're like anticipating itevery single month and then you
have to do the whole like okay,as soon as I start my period,
I'm like back to square one,thinking about the next you know
fertile cycle and it justbecomes this obsession.

(31:17):
That for me, got prettyunhealthy, I think, because I
was like why isn't it nothappening like and there's
something going on and we hadjust moved.
So I I started thinking likethere's something wrong with my
house, like am I having healthissues now Because I'm a little
bit older?
Like my gosh, my anxiety wasjust like cycling like so bad at

(31:38):
that point.
And then I, so we got pregnant.
We're super excited finallyhappened, and I'm trying to
remember this was more than twoyears ago now.
So I'm trying to remember likethe sequence of events.
I'm not sure exactly what camefirst.
I didn't have like a careprovider or anything, but I

(31:59):
really wanted an ultrasound.
So I went in for a really earlyultrasound.
It was like seven or eightweeks and it was just at like a
free clinic type of placebecause I just didn't have any
buddy like that I had signed upwith as my care provider and
they couldn't find heartbeat.
So there was a pregnancy.

(32:21):
They couldn't find theheartbeat.
I didn't really trust them andI didn't want to believe that
there was no heartbeat and itwas early.
So I was a pregnancy.
They couldn't find theheartbeat.
I didn't really trust them andI didn't want to believe that
there was no heartbeat and itwas early.
So I was like I'm just going totry to go somewhere else.
So then I go to the IndigoDiagnostics to get like a more
official report andunfortunately there was not a

(32:42):
heartbeat for that one, so thatconfirmed.
And unfortunately there was nota heartbeat for that one, so
that confirmed.
And so that was just this hugelike I don't know it's.
It was just kind of like youknow, I found out at four weeks
that I was pregnant.
So I already had been thinkingabout pregnancy and birth and
baby number two for like almostlike a month.
So that's a huge letdown, eventhough you're like so early

(33:05):
along.
It's like yeah, but I've knownthis for a month and like I was
getting really excited about itand starting to plan things and
so and it was like it reallythrew me.
It really I've never I've beena very lucky person.
I've never had like super badluck kind of things happen to me
like I've had a lot of justlike a good life, I guess I've

(33:26):
just I've always felt like I'vegotten like the the good straw,
I guess, like in life, like I'vejust not had to deal with a lot
of big things.
So that was probably the firsttime that like a big thing, sad,
traumatic, like didn't work outthe way I wanted it to happen
to me, like that, and I can getsome pretty bad like health

(33:47):
anxiety sometimes, so that thatcame into play with that.
Like what's going on with mybody?
Why am I having thismiscarriage?
I didn't understand what.
Was you know something wrongwith me?
And so I went to the doctorbecause I wanted to know, like
what do they tell you when youhave, when you're in this

(34:07):
situation?
It was so weird, like I'm stillpregnant, I still have like the
symptoms, but they're tellingme that I'm not.
I mean, you know, theheartbeat's not there.
So what, what is this like inbetween space?
So I went to the doctor andthey said you know, here's your
three options Do nothing, waitfor it to happen by itself.

(34:28):
You can take medication or youcan do like surgery, which they
were like we don't recommend thesurgery piece because your body
will probably take care of it.
So I just left and was like I'mjust gonna see what happens and
just trust my body.
And it was pretty quick afterthat that I miscarried and I was
like glad that I was able to dothat at home and didn't have to

(34:52):
like have any intervention.
It was very smooth and kind oflike with pregnancy and birth.
Every miscarriage can lookdifferent.
So within like six weeks I getpregnant again and that
pregnancy I waited a little bitlonger to get an ultrasound but
I was super anxious.
I was just like I need to seewhat's going on, if I'm going to

(35:15):
have another miscarriage or not.
And unfortunately it wasanother non viable pregnancy so
it was like within a couple ofmonths again being told like
you're not, you know, you canhave another miscarriage.
That one was a lot harderbecause it wasn't as clear.
It was like like what they calla blighted ovum, so there's no

(35:39):
like embryo inside of the sack.
So then you have to go in againto confirm that it's a
miscarriage.
And I guess my body just likesto hold on to the pregnancies
because I just I didn't have anysigns or symptoms of losing the
pregnancy until I was liketechnically would have been like

(35:59):
12 weeks pregnant, but itdidn't develop beyond five weeks
.
So it took me a really long timeto miscarry that pregnancy on
its own and I didn't interveneuntil I kept bleeding.
I didn't intervene until I keptbleeding, like I found out I
was pregnant in May, miscarriedsometime in June, and then I

(36:26):
bled until August.
So it was like the longestprocess and I couldn't stand it
anymore.
It was like I am done with this, like why am I still bleeding?
Why I don't want to deal withthis anymore.
Like throwing in the towel Iknow my body can probably take
care of itself if I would bemore patient, or whatever.
Like throwing in the towel, Iknow my body can probably take
care of itself If I would bemore patient or whatever.
But I'm just done.
I'm done losing blood.
I'm done like worrying aboutthis.
So the doctor offered me a DNC,so I went and got that and

(36:49):
actually that was really helpfulfor me.
I did not like that I did.
I did not like the process ofit.
You know they sedated me andlike the whole kind of surgery
process which, oh my gosh, mademe so anxious going into it.
But afterwards, like I feltsuper normal, I felt really good
.
So it was like the bestdecision for me.

(37:10):
At that point I wish I wouldhave known a little bit more
Apparently, like this type ofmiscarriage does tend to take
longer to resolve itself.
So if somebody would have toldme that like hey, this type of
miscarriage is different.
Maybe your risk is higher forprolonged bleeding or for
retained tissue.
That's what I ended up havingwas retained tissue that they

(37:33):
had to go in and get out for me,and luckily it was really not
that severe, it wasn't a bigdeal.
But those two experiencesshifted my mindset going into my
next pregnancy.
So I was just much more anxiousabout all the possibilities and
things that could happen.

(37:53):
I was still very set on homebirth.
Luckily my miscarriages wereearly.
So I kind of had this thought,this, this process of thinking
of like if I can get past acertain point in pregnancy, I'll
be in the clear.
That was just my way of copingwith it.
But I did think like somethingmight be wrong with me, right,

(38:14):
like I might have anothermiscarriage and if I do, I don't
know what I'm going to do, ifI'm going to even have any more
kids, because this is notsomething I want to repeat over
and over again.
So I kind of had it in my headlike I'm going to give it one
more try, and the doctors alwayssay to.
If you have three or moremiscarriages in a row, then you

(38:37):
might have some fertility issues, but if you have two or less in
a row, then you're probablyfine to keep trying.
So they just say, okay, move on, heal from the miscarriage,
give yourself a little bit oftime and then you're good to go
to try again.
So I mean, we were notpreventing getting pregnant ever
because we were trying to haveanother baby and we just thought

(38:59):
, you know, if it happens again,we'll just see what happens and
we're just going to trust whathappens.
So I thought we always make funof this period of time.
After the second miscarriage,when I had the DNC and before I
got pregnant for the fourth time, I felt so good.
I was like I climbed Katahdin,I was like lifting weights every

(39:20):
day.
It was just I don't know.
I had some kind of like freshair in my body, I guess, because
like the miscarriages were overand I was like replenishing
myself and but it was very short, it was probably like a month
and I got pregnant again.
So that's when Marla'spregnancy started was right

(39:42):
after those two.
So, as you can imagine, I feltpretty anxious.
I was wondering if anothermiscarriage is coming.
I didn't go straight to likehome birth midwifery care,
didn't go straight to like homebirth midwifery care, I actually
just went straight to an OBbecause I had it so much in my
head that I was going to haveanother miscarriage and because

(40:03):
I had such different miscarriageexperiences where one needed no
intervention at all and it wastotally fine, went through the
whole process without anythingand I felt good.
The second I ended up throwingin the towel.
So I was like, you know, I'mjust gonna go get an ultrasound,
go to the you know, see whatkind of things come up from the

(40:27):
initial like first trimestertest, and then go from there.
And I went into the firstultrasound and I demanded for an
early one.
I was probably like one ofthose patients that they're like
, oh, good grief, cause I waslike the earliest, and they're
like we don't do earlier thaneight weeks, and I was like no,
no, no, the doctor says I can doseven weeks.

(40:47):
And so I fought them on thatbecause every day was like
anxiety, like I just need to getpast this point where I know I
have a viable pregnancy and thenI can see whether or not I'm
going to have a miscarriage or Ican continue planning on having
a pregnancy.
So that's why I was so focusedon getting like the earliest

(41:08):
ultrasound because I wanted that.
Just that little.
Okay, there's a littleheartbeat, pregnancy looks
normal.
My mom had a lot of atopicpregnancies too.
So I just always had that kindof thing in my head.
Like you know it, it didn'thappen to me, but it doesn't
mean it's going to happen to you, but it's just a matter of like
okay, can like breathe now?

(41:29):
So they even tried to call methe day before and reschedule
that ultrasound.
Like you're not eight weeks yet.
I was like I know we've hadthis conversation, like I'm
coming and you're not cancelingthis.
Yeah, so I I got my earliest asI could get ultrasound at the
time and I was so convinced thatit was going to be a

(41:51):
miscarriage.
I mean the moment that I wassitting there waiting for them
to start the ultrasound, that'swhen it like came to me that
like, oh gosh, like dread.
You know it's not going to gowell and you know the
ultrasounds maybe made it alittle bit more of a harsh
experience, because it's justthis like yep, you're having a

(42:12):
miscarriage, like it's verysudden.
It's not like a very physicalexperience.
So the physical experiencereally helped me process the
miscarriages.
But that weird information thatyou're getting like it's
contrary to what you'reexperiencing.
So I could totally see myselfin the future doing the opposite
, like not getting ultrasoundand just waiting to see if my

(42:35):
body does something or not.
We'll see.
It just depends on like stateof mind, you know.
But that ultrasound was veryhelpful because it was a healthy
pregnancy heartbeat, everythinglooked normal, so it was a huge
relief I was able to breathe.
Like unfortunately, I go to Ihave a really nice therapist and

(42:56):
she helps me understand anxietyand she's like it does this
like spike thing and then youget some kind of relief.
I also have OCD, so it's likethe OCD relieves it but then it
spikes again and if you keeprelieving it it keeps spiking
and what you have to do is likego through the emotion so it
just like gradually goes down.

(43:18):
In that case she was verysupportive of me going and
getting these ultrasounds.
She's like I think you shouldjust try to decrease your
anxiety right now as much as youcan and not wait for it to like
naturally go down, because it'sa very special circumstance.
It's not just like general life.
This is like pregnancy and lifeand death, and so I did get

(43:39):
like a handful of ultrasounds inthe first trimester, just to
get that heartbeat confirmation.

Angela (43:45):
And then I'm sure you're probably worried about feeling,
you know, excited about thatpregnancy because you had been
let down.
Yeah, yeah, so that was yeah, alot of it.

Chelsea (43:56):
for me it was like I just want to know if I need to
plan for pregnancy or plan formiscarriage, because those are
two very different experiencesand knowing about my body, that
it doesn't.
You know, I think it'sdifferent for everybody,
probably for every miscarriagetoo.
But I know sometimesmiscarriages just happen very
suddenly.
And I'm sure that's differentfor everybody, probably for

(44:16):
every miscarriage too.
But I know sometimesmiscarriages just happen very
suddenly and I'm sure that'salso extremely traumatic.
But you're not just likesitting there wondering if
something happened and you don'tknow about it.
It's like a really weird mindgame.
So that was what was happeningfor me because of my
miscarriages being they callthem missed miscarriages, where
the ultrasound reveals that youdid miscarry but your body is

(44:40):
not, has not caught up to it yet.
So it's just this like okay, Idon't know if I miscarried or
not.
Like you know, the firsttrimester and everything had
looked normal up until then, Istarted looking for home birth

(45:03):
midwives.
I had already kind of likesettled on.
There's not very many optionshere, so I'd already kind of
settled on the midwives inBangor, so it was just like easy
to go instead of go to thehospital so it's just down the
street Indigo Diagnosticsalready like did some of their
imaging there.
So I already like done someconsultation stuff before.
I believe I like I think beforeI had my miscarriage I might

(45:25):
have had a consultation already.
So that was kind of like aneasy switch.
So the prenatal care wentreally well for me.
It was very similar with thefirst one.
It was just like I liked howthey gave like a platter of
choices, like okay, here's allthe options you can choose
whatever you want, no pressure.
And I liked that a lot betterthan my first midwife who didn't

(45:49):
really like tell me what otherpeople would do Like I just I
wanted to know like what do?
What does everybody you know?
Like what are the doctors offerversus you know, of course I
can always do nothing.
I know that's always a choice,but I'm just curious about like
all the other testing and prosand cons.
So that was a nice part aboutit.

(46:11):
And then the long appointmentsand I kind of liked the like
rotation, but not too manyrotating midwives, it was like a
good mix of people.
And then leading up to my birththere was a lot of conversations
around hey, you're really far,you're really far, drive like
Millinocket's far.
I did have to advocate a bittoo for doing a home birth in

(46:35):
Millinocket.
They were not so sure about itbecause it was far.
So I had to say like, hey, I'vealready had a home birth.
I really want to, like that'smy plan.
So there was a little bit ofconversation around that.
We wrote up like a whole birthplan.
I really was very clear oncertain things, like I don't

(46:56):
want people in my space, I don'twant cervical checks, I don't.
It makes me anxious, like thesetypes of things will create
anxiety for me.
So I and I know that aboutmyself, so I need to protect my
headspace.
And here are the things that Ineed to protect my headspace.
And so it's like pretty muchlike in the words of one of the

(47:19):
midwives so it's basically afree birth, but with us there,
and it was like yeah, yes, but Ialso am the type of person
that's like I do want you there.
So that was like the process ofthinking about birth.
I did another hypnobirthingcourse, which was much more
helpful, and I was much morededicated to the practice of

(47:43):
like the rhythm, like thebreathing and the relaxing and
was taking it much moreseriously Because I learned like
, oh, you do.
This is like mindfulness, thisis like any kind of practice,
like you have to teach your bodyhow to do it so that when
you're in labor you can do it.
So I got really good at thatlike listen to all these scripts
and music and like was likegetting in, like practicing,

(48:08):
relaxing, for labor I have.
I also want to say like myprenatal care a part of it.
It's not like direct prenatalcare, but for me it was a huge
part of my pregnancy experience.
I'm a naturalist and Icompleted um a naturalist course
during my pregnancy, actuallygave birth in the middle of my
naturalist course.

(48:29):
They were really flexible withme so I was able to like bring
the baby.
I like went on a bird walk threedays before I gave birth.
I was so like in nature thatentire pregnancy and just really
enveloped in the world oflearning about nature and was

(48:49):
like I'm very connected to likea certain bird that I listened
to every night before Marlo wasborn.
If anybody's curious, it's abittern so I could hear it like
calling down from a.
There's a swamp near my houseso I could hear it calling from
the wetland.
I know like when, whenever Iwent for a walk before Marla was

(49:09):
born and then after Marla wasborn, like the differences
between the things, like theferns hadn't unfurled yet, and
then, like a week later, all theferns were out.
So it was like super special,like part of my experience with
her birth.

Angela (49:23):
Oh, that's funny.
Weren't you also out doing likecold plunges in the shadows?

Chelsea (49:27):
Yeah, yeah, I liked a cold dip and I haven't done that
so much after I have two kidsnow, but I still love it and I'm
passionate about it.
But yeah, I was.
I have some really nice likebig belly, like pushing the ice.
It was like in April when theice was starting to go out and I
was like next to a big icesheet like dipping with my

(49:49):
friend.
So yeah, that was a really coolpart of my pregnancy as well.
So pregnancy went well.
I didn't have a lot of issues.
I started getting like grumpyabout food in the end, like just
just a bit uncomfortable, likeheartburn kinds of things.
I love that about, like homebirth, midwifery, prenatal care,

(50:10):
because I had all thesedifferent varieties of things.
I could try to relieve thosethings because they'd give me
all these different ideas and solike, for some reason, almonds
are what take care of myheartburn the best and that was
a suggestion and it's reallyhelpful at the end of the
pregnancy when you have a lot ofheartburn, um, to have

(50:30):
something that gives you relief.

Angela (50:32):
I got really sick for a while, or were, were you like
was it Just curious, if anyone'swondering Both.

Chelsea (50:41):
So like, if you chew on almonds for a long time and
then swallow it like there'ssomething in the almonds that
can relieve it, I really like tojust drink almond milk because
it was cold and that wouldrelieve it quicker for me.
I think, like the chewing onsomething like again, I just
couldn't really stomach beinglike eating Like I just was.
I'm one of those weird pregnantpeople that I don't like eating

(51:04):
when I'm pregnant and towardsthe end it gets really hard for
me because I just feel like I'mfull all the time.
I eat a lot of like, you know,ice cream and stuff to like deal
with it.
But overall I felt fine, like Iwas just going for tons of
walks.
I also run in pregnancy and Istopped running towards the
third trimester and startedwalking a lot.

(51:26):
So very active and, yeah,spending a ton of time outside,
which was really nice.
So I I'm trying to think ifthere was something else that I
was going to talk about beforeyou like that theme of like the
natural world really carriedinto your birth too.
Like yeah, yeah, so the day.

(51:49):
So I expected.
So I was telling everybody,like you know, everybody asks
you when you're pregnant, when,when's the baby coming, when do
you do, when's your due date.
And I think sometimes I wouldthrow people off because I would
just say June or this summerand they would look at me like
okay, you're not calculating adate, and I would just move on

(52:11):
with the conversation and Ithought, you know, nobody really
questioned me on like when isthe exact date?
And if I felt like I had togive an exact date, I would
throw out a random date, like Iwould say June 10, june 8.
I think I told people like likemore than a month past my
actual due date and I didn'thave a specific date in my head

(52:32):
Because I ignored it.
I like they would, you knowthey got I would get these early
ultrasounds which would giveyou estimated due dates, and
then I got an estimated due datefrom, like, my period, last
period or whatever.
So I had actually like three orfour estimated due dates that
were different from one another,which helped me ignore the

(52:53):
dates.
So it's just like all right, itwas like you know, mid May,
whatever, late May, and I thinkthe more that you tell people
the later dates, the more thatyou also kind of believe it.
So I was thinking June in myhead like is when I'm going to
give birth.
So I get to like I was kind oftracking like which week I was

(53:15):
at, but I was again.
I was kind of tracking likewhich week I was at, but I was
again.
I was just not that focused onit.
And so I get to like the 40thweek and I'm really tired,
really, just like not wanting togo far from home, I stopped.
I was like going for hikes andI stopped going to that because
I had to drive like 10 minutesout of town to go hike.
So I stopped going therebecause I just didn't feel like

(53:37):
being far from home.
I was like doing a lot ofwalking around my neighborhood
and the day I went into labor Italked to my dad on the phone
for a little bit and was walkingin the morning.
I also work part time, so I wasworking part time a little bit
for a few hours, went for mywalk and then planted our herb
garden which was like at waistheight, it was like a raised bed

(54:00):
.
So it was really nice because Icould still do it and not worry
about bending over.
There's a lot of planting Imissed last year because I was
so pregnant and it was reallyuncomfortable to get on the
ground and plant stuff.
So I planted the herb garden.
It was, you know, you know,super satisfying.
And then I went inside and justplopped down on the chair and

(54:20):
like didn't get up for fourhours and what happened was like
Henning kept trying.
He was like feeding me food,like here's some lunch, like you
need to eat something.
And then I fell asleep and thenhe was going to pick up our
older daughter at daycare and,um, he's like, hey, I'm gonna go

(54:40):
pick her up.
Do you want to go eat pizza?
Or something.
Like he was like trying to.
I think he could kind of tell,like what is she doing?
She's just like laying on thecouch.
I don't nap, I'm not a napper,I'm like a very like on my feet
kind of person.
So it looks like make someplans, go do something.
I don't want you to wallow inyour misery.
And I was like I'm just tiredand I started crying I don't

(55:03):
want to go anywhere.
It's like okay, nevermind.
Like I remember his face.
He was very confused Like whyis she crying right now by the
suggestion of going and eatingpizza?
Why would that make you cry?
And so he goes and gets uni andour daughter and then he is

(55:24):
going to the grocery store.
So they're gone for a long time.
I sleep more and I hear thatthey're home and I like jump up
and go to the bedroom because Ididn't want to interact with
anybody, and I especially didn'twant to interact with my
three-year-old.
I was like I want to hide forlonger.

(55:47):
I'm going to go hide in thebedroom.
It's like 4pm.
I'm just sleeping all day, Iguess.
And I remember I was layingthere and I was like I should
probably check my phone, becausesometimes I get random stuff
for work or whatever and justkind of check in randomly and I
look at my phone and somebodywas texting me about work and I
got this kind of like weirdadrenaline rush and I thought

(56:08):
that it was because of themessage.
But right after I got thisadrenaline rush, I like very wet
, like stuff happening in myunderwear, and I was like did I
just like pee myself orsomething?
It was so weird because I waslike in a haze and I was like
trying to look at my phone andit was like I was laying down,

(56:30):
so I was in a very sedentaryposition.
So it was like what I've neverpeed myself in pregnancy why did
I pee myself?
So I get up and I'm like, oh mygosh, I have to go to the
bathroom.
It's just like this rush in mybody like it was hot and I had
to go to the bathroom.
And so I go to the bathroom andI like start to get on the

(56:50):
toilet and there's just likegushes of fluid.
So it was like this verydramatic it you know water
breaking like the movies, youknow like everywhere.
And it didn't register for afew minutes until, like I I
wiped it up and was inspectingit and was like, what is this?
So I was like, oh, my waterbroke and it was like literally

(57:14):
my probably like the day beforemy due date.
I think that she was born onone of my due dates or like
around one of us.
So, but it's so funny that Iwasn't even thinking that she
was going to be born at thattime.
I was like I've got anotherthree weeks.
So it just shocked me.
I had like an initial panicbecause of the water breaking

(57:36):
thing and how much fluid wascoming out.
It just felt really strange forlabor to start that way.
So I think Henning and this waspart of our plan Henning was
going to be the only personcontacting everybody so that I
could not use my brain and I didnot want to like have to
coordinate people.
So he like called the midwivesto ask them because I was asking

(57:59):
him questions and he's like I'mjust gonna ask them questions,
these questions, because I don'tknow.
So he called them and they'relike yeah, okay, sounds like
your water broke.
Water broke, everything's good,let us know when you want to
come, kind of thing.
Um, and I was like nothing'shappening, like just have water
leaking out, and it wasaggressive.
I ended up having to put on adiaper and I was just chugging

(58:20):
fluids.
I just kind of intuitively feltlike okay, I'm losing a lot of
liquid, so probably need to likedrink liquid.
Um, but I started to calm downquite a bit and got into a very
like like I came back downbecause it was like nothing's
happening.
My water just broke.
I'm not even having.
I had been having these littlefake contractions, but I wasn't

(58:42):
having anything intensehappening.
I think I initially kind ofpanicked because I imagined
those labor, those births thatI've heard that like the water
breaks and then the baby's out.
It's really fast birth.
So I think I got a little bitparanoid that that was going to
happen.
But when I realized I'm not, mybody's not like, the changes

(59:02):
aren't really that fast, it'sjust my amniotic sac breaking.
So I think I'm good.
So I sat down, I ate dinner,hung out with family, ended up
like daughter went to bedreading a book.
I got off of social media like amonth before I gave birth.
That was like that was one ofmy methods of trying to keep my

(59:24):
brain calm was by getting off ofsocial media and the internet,
and so I wasn't like justbrowsing on my phone.
I read a bunch of books.
So I like asked one of myfriends who reads a lot of books
, was like Can you give merecommendations for something
that will can be likeentertaining, like I'll really
love reading it, but it's notscary, like.
And I gave her a list of likeknow, no murder, no blood, no,

(59:48):
like things that like willstress me out, and she was like,
yeah, I gave you like tons ofrecommendations and it was
really nice.
So, um, those books were goodand went to bed and I you know,
the timeline for me gets reallyfuzzy here and it's funny
because I think you're gonnahave a much better idea of the
timeline.
So my memory is just gonna bekind of like what I remember in
order of things, and I thinkyou're going to have a much

(01:00:08):
better idea of the timeline.
So my memory is just going tobe kind of like what I remember
in order of things, and I think,because it was overnight, I
just I was tired and I reallyput my brain into like my
hypnobirthing stuff.
I immediately started to turnon like my there are these
really interesting, like likerecordings, like where you're
imagining yourself in differentplaces and and I those were so

(01:00:31):
nice for me, I really lovedthose, so it just like takes
your mind off of like the laborand I was really very relaxed
during those hours.
And I know the midwives showedup at some point after dark and
you also showed up right at thesame time as them, right?
I think it was like yeah, weboth got there at 10 pm, yeah,

(01:00:52):
okay, so, and this is like lateMay, so it had probably just
gotten dark like an hour or sobefore that and I was in bed
most of the time and that chunkof my labor, like most of the
night, was I stayed in bed untilit got too uncomfortable and
then I started getting out ofthe bed and like was on the

(01:01:15):
floor, um, henning filled up thebirth pool.
I remember being like no, no,no, what are you doing?
Like no, I'm just going to bed.
Like it was really like that.
But part of our agreement washe's doing those things and I'm
just going to bed.
Like it was really like that,but part of our agreement was
he's doing those things and I'mnot thinking about it.
So he's like don't worry aboutit, don't worry about it, I got
this.
Okay, that's fine.

(01:01:35):
But I think like he gets reallyexcited to about the birth
stuff happening.
So he's like, oh, my gosh,baby's coming.
So he's like I got to get allthis stuff ready.
But I was just like everybody,just slow down, like I'm just
chilling here.
I'm really relaxed, like thingsare happening much slower in my
body than outside of my body,and so I was kind of like having

(01:01:58):
that tension already and maybeit was already like building up
as a pressure for me of like, oh, the baby is coming, but, but
really like things are takingtheir time, you know, and it
just was a very relaxing, likeinitial part of labor for me.
I was really happy about myimprovement from my first labor

(01:02:19):
to my second labor and like thethings that I found that worked
for me to stay relaxed.
And it was like a super nicetime with Henning.
Like we had a lot of cuddlingand holding each other and we
just didn't get a lot of that.
So it was like birth gave usthat opportunity to just really
hold each other and thingsstarted to pick up.

(01:02:40):
And then I remember getting inthe pool and it would like make
things slow down.
It's like the water actuallywas working too well.
So that's a piece of feedbackfor myself.
That was like, oh, I guess likeyou have to really wait until,
like, your body's like on thatlike no going back zone to get

(01:03:03):
into the pool because, yeah,just like I would fall asleep.
So it helped me get a littlebit of sleep.
But it was kind of like, okay,things are like slowing down and
they're picking up and slowingdown.
I kept having to go to thebathroom.
That was something like I don'tknow, it was kind of hard for
me because it was like I don'twant to go to the toilet.
But I got to go to the toilet,walking around everywhere, but I

(01:03:25):
stayed in my room like I didn'tleave my room at all and I
think I just wanted to sleep,but labor was happening.
I couldn't sleep.
So it was like this weirdtension of like, okay, I have to
do this.
And so as the morning went on,I started thinking about my
daughter waking up and getting alittle bit worried about it.

(01:03:48):
So I think that little voice inmy head like, oh, if the baby
can just come before yourdaughter gets up, then you don't
have to like worry about thelogistics of that.
So that was going on in my head.
And then it was like I don'tknow, I started to feel like
there was a shift in my labor.

(01:04:09):
So it was like I I don't knowhow much of it was like an
external influence or or howmuch of it was internal, but I
needed something different in mylabor.
And so I started to do likesome bearing down, some like
different movements, and it frommy perspective it felt like
suddenly all the midwives werein my room and I was trying to

(01:04:34):
like figure out why.
And again, like memory is kindof weird when you're thinking
back on your birth versus likewhat was happening, I think.
But from my perspective it waslike I don't know, everything
was like going well.
And then my perspective it waslike I don't know, everything
was like going well and thensuddenly it was like why isn't
the baby here?
Where is the baby like?
Are you not?
You know?
And it was like I felt like itwas kind of like okay, it's

(01:04:58):
taking too long.
Suddenly, and I don't and Iwould be curious to hear, like,
the other perspectives of but Iremember looking outside and
seeing a little bit of light inthe sky and was like, oh my god,
good morning.
Like it was just kind of like,oh my god, I'm still in labor
and I had this, this patternwith the contractions, where

(01:05:21):
they never got close together,they were always very spread out
and it was weird because it wasso different from my first
labor.
So I kind of kept thinking likeis something wrong?
Is my body like, is the babystuck?
Is my body doing somethingweird right now, like in the,
you know, those miscarriages,like those thoughts that kind of

(01:05:42):
built up in my head of with themiscarriages, of like, oh,
something's wrong.
So I did start to kind of likepanic and again, I don't really
know like the sequence of eventshere and this is interesting
because you were at the birth,so I know that you have like
some insight on this but Iremember I think I was voicing

(01:06:07):
something like I need help or Idon't know what to do, or
something wrong.
I was saying something alongthose lines and I think what I
needed was, like everybody tojust be like you're totally fine
, you're good, like I reallyneeded just like the reassure.
I needed the continuousreassurance of like you're okay,

(01:06:27):
you're okay, you're okay, okay,you're okay, the baby's okay,
like you know, because they werelistening to the baby, I was
getting all of the that feedback.
So there was, I wasn't in laborthat long.
My water broke like 4 pm orsomething.
It was only like 12 hours laterand I was clearly in active
labors and it was progressing.
So, yeah, from that perspective, I know there was nothing wrong

(01:06:51):
, um, but I was offered acervical check and or to be
checked and I said, yes, um, andyou know, I've really learned
my lesson on this.
Like they're so painful whenyou're in labor and this
happened with both of my birthslike it's really painful and for

(01:07:11):
me the maybe the pain leveljust spikes because I lose my
ability to cope with it, becausesuddenly, like pain went from
like a three to a 10.
And it was just like with asnap of the fingers was just
like with a snap of the fingers.

(01:07:31):
Suddenly it just was like I'mbeing stabbed, and that was how
all of the contractions feltafter that point, so that one
cervical check, like thebeginning of the more hands-on
part of my labor, translated toa much higher level of pain for
me.
And so I think that pain andjust kind of the signal in my

(01:07:52):
body of like something's wrong,really just like spun my anxiety
out of control.
It was just like okay, nowthings are not going the way I
thought they were.
The midwife told me I had acervical lip which I had never
heard of before.
That which was really not goodfor me.

(01:08:13):
Like I thought like oh, youmight as well Like.
Later on I thought about thatand I was like she could have
told me anything terrible and itwould have been like I would
have had the same reactionbecause I just didn't know what
she was saying to me, or like ifthere was even anything I could
do about it, or if that meantlike so my perspective is like

(01:08:36):
if I need to go to the hospital,just call the ambulance, take
me to the hospital, and if Idon't, then like don't come in
my room, like don't intervene,like because my body is just
going to perceive all of thosethings Like something is
happening and I needintervention.
So it turned the way that mylabor went for me.

(01:08:57):
From that point on it was like Ifelt like I needed to go to the
hospital.
I felt like something was wrong.
I felt like, whatever all thesethings they were having me do to
like resolve the cervical lip,I was feeling like it wasn't
going to work or in like youknow, I just I just didn't trust
anything anymore.

(01:09:19):
I like lost my feeling of safetyand I was kind of just like I
think also that, combined withthe fact that I was getting
closer to giving birth because Iknow whenever you transition,
you panic and I think that'slike pretty normal to be like
I'm done, like I can't do this,like mom, come get me, you know,

(01:09:40):
like you say really irrationalthings.
So the combination of thattransition period and that
happening with, like, thecervical lip thing was not a
good combination for me and, um,yeah, it just freaked me out.
I just spent a lot of thosecontractions and a lot of that
time like fluctuating betweenlike I'm gonna die, I need to go

(01:10:03):
to the hospital and Henningwould just look at me and be
like you're okay, everything'sokay, chelsea, like he was
really like you know, we'redoing it, you're fucking you
know.
He was probably the only reasonwhy I didn't just like sprint
away to the car or something.

Angela (01:10:18):
He was your rock for sure, like he was so strong and
just there for you the wholetime.

Chelsea (01:10:24):
It was so sweet to watch you guys together in that
labor yeah, I have to say likehe, he was the primary reason
why, like I still gave birth athome because he knew that's what
I wanted.
He told me you don't want to goto the hospital, you really
don't want.
And I knew I was like no, Idon't.
I remember feeling it like whatam I gonna do in the car?

(01:10:44):
I'm not getting in the car likethat sounds horrible.

Angela (01:10:53):
Because also it wasn't an easy thing being in
Millinocket.
We had called the Millinockethospital and they were like,
yeah, it's like a crazyemergency, like you need to go
to Bangor, like at that point itwas just because of a long
labor and it's like an hour carride.

Chelsea (01:11:04):
No, I've heard lots of stories of people who like live
in Millinocket and who likeended up like car babies or like
having to pull off and go to adifferent hospital, like kind of
because it's so far.
Yeah, so I didn't.
You know, I I was like callingfor the that like I'm gonna go
to the hospital, I'm getting thecar, and it was my way of being

(01:11:26):
like get me out of thesituation.
I don't want to be here anymore.
I'm done like.
I just need somebody to get meout of this.
You know, it was just a veryprimal kind of reaction to being
scared in that moment youhadn't gotten out of your room.

Angela (01:11:43):
You're in your room for a full night.
And one thing that happenedbefore you came out of the room,
when that was like so beforeyou came out of the room, when
that was like so before you cameout of the room, that was when
you sort of had the I think Ineed to go to the hospital
moment.
And right before that happened,a moose walked up your road, a
mama moose with her baby moosewalking right behind her, right
outside your bedroom windowwhere you had been laboring all

(01:12:06):
night.
This mama, little baby walkingright outside your window.
Just that energy was there.
And then, yeah, so then, andthen you decided to shift sort
of like your environment andbecause we weren't like, are we
gonna?
So we kind of had this littleplan where we're like, okay,
we're gonna transfer down to bitlike we're seeing what our
options were, like we can't goto millinocket, we're gonna have

(01:12:26):
to go to bangor.
Pennant came out and he's likecan you move the car seat from
the van into the other car?
And then you had startedwalking around the rest of your
house and I'm like hearing thatyour noises that you're making
and the rest of the house is.
I'm like in the garage tryingto move the car seat from one
car to the next.
I need to go back inside, likelike I, like I should move the

(01:12:46):
car.
I think I'm going to go backinside Cause like this is this
is happening.
Yeah, as you were like comingout of your room or like making
that decision to start likemoving around the rest of your
house, like a little bit at thatpoint.

Chelsea (01:12:59):
Yeah, so that was part of like okay, I got to get out
of here.
So I finally I I think that ifnobody would have been in my
house, I would have been in myhouse, I would have been in the
rest of my house more, because Iremember thinking about labor.
I'd go on these walks and Ithink about labor and I'd be
like, whoa, the baby gets reallylow when I walk.

(01:13:19):
And I remember thinking aboutlike, randomly would be like I'm
probably gonna have to walk alot in labor, like this baby
gets really high whenever I lay,but then whenever I walk or
head gets so low and I just hadthis like kind of feeling of
like I'm probably gonna have towalk a lot, and so I think that

(01:13:39):
was something I needed to do.
Um, so maybe that was part ofthe like I gotta go to the
hospital Cause my body was likeget out of your room Because you
can't move enough in there tolike get the labor to progress.
And so I like open the door.
I just remember the air likesmell different.
It was like a differenttemperature.

(01:14:01):
It was like a whole, like aportal, like oh, here's the
birthing room.
And like when you, when youleave my room, you go right to
the go to the garage.
So that wasn't like I was goingto the car, but I did.
I just walked right past thethe doorway to the garage.

(01:14:22):
I just kept going and so, yeah,I was doing these like I did,
like maybe one.
I have a big open area.
My living room and dining roomhave a big, open, like space.
So I did like a big lap aroundand I just felt a contraction
coming on.
I was standing behind the couchsuper random spot, hardwood

(01:14:43):
floor, like nothing specialthere in front of the bookcase
and the contraction was soproductive Like I felt all the
pressure baby's head going down.
It was like okay, like broughtme down to my knees, very
intense, and I like to checkmyself when I'm in labor.
So I was like, oh, I feelbaby's head and the next

(01:15:06):
contraction came and they werejust like getting really intense
and again like can't be on mylegs anymore.
I feel like my legs juststopped working because, like
you know, your pelvis is doingall kinds of crazy things.
I know some people get birthstanding and that might have
helped me with with this baby,but I could not.
I just like laid down and likewhen the contractions came it

(01:15:28):
was just like I needed Henning.
Where's Henning?
And you know he would just getin my face, kind of.

Angela (01:15:33):
And your daughter had woken up at this point.
Yes, and you was there too.

Chelsea (01:15:38):
I, that was such an interest.
You know, we had a very solidplan for her, like she's either
going to be sleeping or she'sgoing to be at daycare, and the
timeframe when I was like inactive labor was so chaotic
because we were trying to gether to childcare.
But it was just the timing waslike we couldn't leave to get
her over there and maybe if wewould have you know, it's like

(01:16:01):
these little details, like okay,I guess we could have tried to
call somebody to come get her orsomething, but it's just like
such a specific timeline that wedidn't anticipate.
Like you can't plan for allthese things.
So, yeah, she was there, likeshe saw that part of labor
because, again, like I plannedon being in my room, so she
would have totally not seen anyof it.

(01:16:22):
But then she was like rightthere, like two feet away from
me, when these really productivelike contractions happened and
I was laying on the floor and Iknow at some point it was too
much for her, because I'm reallyloud whenever I'm laboring and
like especially in these endmoments, and she's very
sensitive to noise and we evenprepped for it.

(01:16:44):
I told her it's going to beloud, you can go to your room
and watch something on yourtablet, like we don't usually do
, like tablet stuff.
But that was something I knewshe would really be like oh cool
, I can you know distractionfrom that.
So I think she did go with astudent midwife who was there to
her bedroom for a bit duringthat period of time.

Angela (01:17:06):
It was really just that last contraction where she got
just a little like, okay, thisis what's going on, she
understands and yeah so, yeah,nice, they had a student midwife
there that went and comfortedher in those last moments when
you birthed your baby yeah, yeah, so my head was on my room but
that's I was like.

Chelsea (01:17:27):
That tells you how random that spot was.
It was really.
It was very different than myfirst birth, like I fully had to
push her out, like you know.
It was like, oh, this has takenme a lot of effort.
Her head was like very big,like the measurements.
She was like 100 percentilelike head circumference.
Like the measurements.

(01:17:49):
She was like a hundredpercentile like head
circumference.
So she did have a very.
She wasn't like a big babyoverall, she was just like eight
, eight pounds, something ounces, but her head circumference was
really big.
So I think that was a part ofwhy the pushing was so hard and
so intense for me.
But head came out and it wasalso like contractions were not
back to back to back, it wasjust like head came and then I
had to wait for the nextcontraction and then pushed her

(01:18:10):
body out.
I felt her little arms likedoing this wiggle.
So I really felt all of it andit was like whoa, like so I
could, even before I saw her.
I felt her like moving.
So like, yes, a baby.
I was better at it this time.
I was like, yes, it's a babycoming out of me.
But yeah, it was, she was on mychest and you know, when the

(01:18:34):
baby is on my chest and I lookat her, I'm like she's good,
we're good.
I was laughing and was likelaughing at myself.
I, you know, hitting he always Idon't know, this happened in
both births he always cries,cries, and like the moment the
baby comes out and I feel histears on my face.
So I have like this memory oflike his tears falling on my

(01:18:56):
face, like when our both of ourbabies were born and he was all
dressed like to go to thehospital.
I remember looking at himthinking like you really got
ready to go to the hospital.
Oh, I'm sorry.
I immediately felt like, oh,whoops, like everybody like got

(01:19:16):
all their stuff packed up andready to go and Henning was
trying to get like a bag packed,because I was so like born in
the living room floor of thehardwood floor and I really
wanted to like birth my ownplacenta, or at least try to,
because I didn't get thatexperience with my first, and so
I was like trying to see if itwould come and then it wasn't

(01:19:40):
really coming very easy and theywere like well, why don't we
just like get you back to yourbed?
And oh, also, I didn't knowthat it was a girl and so that
was a big part of that moment oflike, oh, second girl.
And then we walked back to mybedroom and I like tried a
little bit longer to like kindof pull on it for a few minutes,

(01:20:00):
and then I was.
I got a bit of pressure likehey, let's just get your
placenta out, and I think that Iwould have been totally fine
with waiting.
I didn't feel like any pressurefor the placenta to come.
I was like, yeah, it's gonnacome.
It might take a minute.
But they were really like no,let's get it out.
And I just was also kind oflike okay, like get out of my

(01:20:25):
bedroom.
So, like you know, and it cameout pretty easily.
It wasn't like uncomfortable.
I mean, it was not comfortable.
I think there's still a lot ofcontractions and stuff happening
and so it's still.
But compared to birth, it'slike, yeah, okay, it just kind
of pops out and not a big deal.
But it was really cool to getthe time with the placenta and

(01:20:45):
we did the, we burned the cordlike specifically so we could
have that time, and we reallyloved the photos from that.
Uni was laying in the bed withus and she was so tired for
things like probably just thatexperience like her mom giving
birth, like right in front ofher, she's like the picture,
she's like closing her eye, soyeah, that like that time period

(01:21:09):
after birth was really specialand just oh, I I just always
with both births, just feel sogood, like yeah, I just finished
it, I just did it like baby'shere, like she looks so pink and
like cute and chubby and herlittle head, like the cone on
her head, was like to the side alittle bit.

(01:21:29):
So I also think a lot of thelabor she was like kind of wonky
, like her head was maybe turneda little bit, so maybe it was a
bit of that walking in the end.
Just the laugh.
I did that, turned her head theright way.
So I think the pushing phasewas really long because I kept
feeling like, yeah, I got topush, I'm there, but her

(01:21:51):
positioning wasn't quite rightand I needed to do some more
moving around to get her there.
So that's kind of theconclusion I came to for that.
But yeah, the postpartum periodwas I don't know.
You know, having a three-yearold was so different and went by
way too fast and I felt like Idon't know, I just had to like

(01:22:12):
do too much.
I didn't want to do as much butI had.
I had to because I have thischild, this three year old, but
like wants my presence andattention and so I tried to do
things with her and tried tobalance, like resting too.
But it was lovely.
It was summer, you know, it waslike we could just go outside

(01:22:32):
and hang out and went for walksand strawberry picking and Marla
still breastfeeds.
So you know, a year in nowwe're still doing it, but still
sleep deprived.
She's got like eight teeth, sothat's also a lot of the nights.
But yeah, that was the birthstories and I did want to say

(01:22:54):
you are my birth photographerfor the second birth and the
photos from that like I don'tknow for me it takes me a while
to like process my birth and tounderstand what happened and
because there's so much emotionthere and it's kind of like
buried by the emotion.
So I have to like sort throughthat first and then I can get to

(01:23:15):
the story.
But the photos helped me seelike the concrete reality
earlier because I have that youknow.
It's like, oh, that's thetimestamp, that's like what
happened.
Then you know and that's thewhere this person was standing
or not standing, and then, justlike, the memory you know of

(01:23:37):
that is being captured.
So, and something that occurredto me when I was processing, it
was like you hire your birthteam, whoever it's going to be
Processing.
It was like you hire your birthteam, whoever it's going to be,
to like pretty much to manageyour birth and to intervene
usually.
So they're going to change thecourse of your birth or to do

(01:23:58):
something, but a birthphotographer is like a pure
witness and that's like a superhigh honor to when you give
birth, it's just to havesomebody there who's like just a
witness just to record it foryou.
So that was really special tohave and I really appreciate the
that, just that doing that forpeople as a, as a career, as a

(01:24:24):
you know a job, because it'sit's much more, i't know, I
think emotionally, like so muchmore important in a lot of ways
than like the changing thecourse of birth versus just like
here's what happened, you know,here's your story, here are
your photos, and like, yeah,it's just very helpful like
emotionally and you have toprocess it.

(01:24:45):
So definitely wanted to saythat the podcast, too, is like
the same thing.
It's like you know you get totell your story.
It's so important.
So, yeah, really appreciate it.

Angela (01:24:58):
Yeah, oh, thank you so much for saying that.
It really is such an honor towitness birth and to witness
women in their primal powerclaiming their babies.
I'm in a year-long study ofbirth with elder midwife Wapio
right now at the Matrona and shetalks about being a witness to

(01:25:18):
the creation of family and Ireally feel that a lot when I'm
at births, and she also talks alot about how less managing and
more witnessing is what thefamilies that she worked with
really wanted the most, and Ireally do love that I'm able to
be there to capture these purelydocumentary style photos of the

(01:25:40):
experience for families, whichcan often be really helpful in
processing the birth afterwardsin a more integrated way.

Chelsea (01:25:48):
For me it was really helpful and, like I I wish I had
one for my first birth, I wishI had photos from that because,
yeah, that's something that wetotally missed.
And I was like I'm hiring abirth photographer so that
there's no pressure on Henning,because Henning just needs to be
like supportive of me, becausethat's too much for him gosh, he
has to manage so much, like inthose moments.

(01:26:09):
So maybe next time too, likeI'm like if I have another I'm
maybe I would involve morefamily members, just because
there's too much for anything tohave to deal with.
But we'll see if that's just,you know, the trying to turn off
the planning brain, like that'slike been my biggest learning
from birth and it's reallyhelped the parenthood like stop

(01:26:32):
trying to control things withplans and anticipating what's
gonna happen next and just likelet go of some stuff, like just
relax.

Angela (01:26:42):
Yeah, birth really brings you to new levels of
consciousness, really.

Chelsea (01:26:48):
Yeah, yeah, I'm totally different person than before.
Like every experience haschanged me and, yeah, for the
better.
I mean it's like, wow, that hashelped me.
Like I'm so much better at alot of other things that, like
would have been really hard forme.
Now I'm like no, I got that,that's fine.
That's Peter King.

(01:27:08):
I gave birth, not just the hardthing, but like you know the
emotion, like things that reallymade me anxious when I was
young.
Like don't even touch me.
Now I'm like, yeah, that's no,I've got a kid, like nothing.

Angela (01:27:23):
So good things to worry about, yeah.
So now, as a final question ifyou were to give advice to
people who are expecting, oreven new parents, what's one of
the biggest things you'd want toshare?

Chelsea (01:27:38):
That probably like is a good connector to the last
thing I said.
Like that that was kind of yeah,like a little bit of like, but
I mean that might just be advicefor a specific type of person
like I know there's people outthere who are like the opposite,
who are just like not plannersand are already really good at
that.
So maybe they shouldn't, maybethey need a different set of
advice.

(01:27:58):
But I guess if you're like meand you like to like land things
and anticipate what's going tohappen next, Like you have to
like learn how to turn that offfor both parenting and birth and
prenatal care.
I mean, maybe from my set ofstories between my births and my

(01:28:19):
miscarriages, you can just hearlike the variety of things that
you can experience and that wasjust like within five years,
one person, same partner.
So, yeah, and maybe that was mylesson, like I needed that, so
I got it.
But yeah, I think, yeah, justlike, like letting go a little

(01:28:44):
bit and and not feeling like youhave to control everything and
or know everything either.

Angela (01:28:52):
Yeah, totally Well.
Thank you so much, chelsea, fortaking the time to chat with me
today and share your birthstories.

Chelsea (01:29:01):
Thank you, I appreciate getting to.
It was the first time I I gotto do it.
I'm glad I got to take my timeand really appreciated it.
It was the first time I got todo it.
I'm glad I got to take my timeand really appreciated it.

Angela (01:29:09):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
Labor of Love, a comprehensiveself-paced online childbirth

(01:29:32):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.

(01:29:52):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.

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