118. MyMaine Birth: Navigating Birth in Rural Maine, Amelia's two Cesarean Stories

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In this episode, we discuss:

• Cesarean birth in Maine at MDI Hospital and EMMC in Bangor
• The lack of resources for pregnant women in Downeast Maine
• The troublesome dogma around pregnancy, birth and postpartum perpetuated by many women who have taken popular courses by the Freebirth Society 
• The benefits of Doula support 
• ….and a whole lot more!

Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…

Visit my website MyMaine Birth

If you're ready to prepare for an autonomous birth experience, where you’re respected as the authority over your body and your baby…  regardless of where you plan on birthing -
CLICK HERE for 10% off  the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course! 

Not sure where to start?  I’ve got you covered!  Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider.   Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider. 

Episode Transcript

Amelia (00:00):
I started to feel the lack of care, like just the lack
of support from my community,and I started to have just the
thoughts of like what I wasgoing to do about my daughter if
I did need to receive care fromsomeone.
I also just felt like I shouldknow.
I should know who is the onewho's in charge of seeing all

(00:23):
the pregnant women in the county, because it's the only hospital
in the county right now and,gosh, it's terrible in my
opinion.
I mean, there's people who,there's some people who like the
care there, but at the end ofthe day, every woman I know
who's given birth there has feltrobbed.

Angela (00:42):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.

(01:03):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
This is episode 118.
Today's birth story guest isAmelia, and she's here to share

(01:26):
her two cesarean birth storieswith us.
The first was at MDI Hospitaland the second was at Eastern
Maine Medical Center in Bangor.
Amelia shares about thechallenges of being pregnant and
giving birth while living in anarea of Maine with very little
options for maternity care,especially for families who

(01:50):
don't have the funds to traveloften.
Amelia was considering a freebirth for her second birth, in
part because of the lack ofoptions in the rural community
of Down East Maine.
I had the honor of walkingalongside her and her family as
they navigated the end of hersecond pregnancy.
At around 42 weeks, ameliadecided to head into Eastern
Maine Medical Center in Bangorfor more support and we talk

(02:11):
about how nobody should beshamed for making that decision.
And there are a growing numberof women out there in birth
communities these days who havetaken the popular free birth
programs and have essentiallybeen manipulated by leaders in
this community to think it'sokay to shame other women for
seeking support when they'retruly wanting or needing more

(02:33):
support.
And as much as I absolutelyfully respect a woman's right to
birth however she chooses, I amnot cool with shaming women for
seeking professional support.
I actually have a lot more tocome on this topic very soon,
but for now let's get intoAmelia's story.
Hi, amelia, welcome to my MainBirth.

(02:56):
Hello.
So to get started, will youshare a little bit about you and
your family?

Amelia (03:09):
started.
Will you share a little bitabout you and your family?
Yeah, so my name is Amelia andI live in Machias, maine, with
my family, with my husband Willand my daughter Serafina and my
son Preston, and we've been upin the county for a few years.
I'm originally from Californiaand my husband is from around
here in Cutler, and we justbought a house here.

Angela (03:28):
So to get into your birth stories, will you share
about how you found out you werepregnant for the first time and
what were your thoughts inchoosing your care?

Amelia (03:39):
Yeah, so the first time that I found out I was pregnant
was in the fall of 2020, whichwas a bit of a funny year, as
people remember.
I found out I was pregnant andthis was four years after an
ayahuasca ceremony where I metmy daughter.
In the ceremony she came inlike the spirit world and she

(04:01):
told me her name was Serafinaand that she needed to be born.
And I spent four years tryingto figure out, all right, how do
we get her here?
And it wasn't until 2020 thatthings really aligned for that
and I found out I was pregnantand we were living with our
landlady and it was really, youknow, not the most comfortable

(04:22):
situation, but we kind of we hadher blessing.
It was a weird time foreveryone and she knew that we
were in love, we wanted to havea baby and we were just going to
figure it out because the babywanted to be here and I found
out I was pregnant.
I didn't really want to dealwith doctors.
I really felt like, all right,if God wanted me to have this
baby, then I might not needdoctors, kind of how I felt.

(04:44):
But I did miscarry thatpregnancy at eight weeks, which
was intense for me because I wasso convinced that my baby
wanted to be here that I had ahard time accepting that.
And I did go to the hospital.
It's kind of where I realizedthat, while the baby wanted to

(05:04):
be here, that we I was dealingwith a lot of obstacles and we
didn't have a car A neighbor wastook me to the hospital and and
I and I felt good there it wasMDI hospital when they were,
when they were taking labor anddelivery, and so the miscarriage
for me felt like it guided meto be more okay, accepting

(05:27):
medical care and just acceptingthat maybe that was the path
that was going to take to get mydaughter here.
I did end up getting pregnantagain immediately after the
miscarriage.
I found out I was pregnant afterI had come home from another
ayahuasca ceremony inMassachusetts.
I was really heartbroken fromthe miscarriage.

(05:48):
I felt confused.
I felt like like, uh, just adoubt that my vision was real
and that was a real situationfor me, because my family didn't
really.
They thought I was crazy, likea lot of people thought I was
crazy.
I had just graduated fromcollege and it took a lot of

(06:08):
work to do that, because part ofmy path in college was writing
a book about that experience,and I had to face a lot of flack
from faculty and just peoplewho thought that I was crazy for
believing that there was thespirit of a baby that wanted to
be born.
So I felt like a lot ofconfrontation.

(06:29):
I felt like, okay, maybe I'mjust crazy.
But so I went back down to mychurch in Massachusetts and it
was a healing ceremony.
It was still during COVID andsome of the people were wearing
masks and it was a littlechallenging, but it brought me a
lot of peace in my body.
And then the next day I visitedmy friend just a little bit away

(06:55):
from there.
She was on her way home andthat's when I started feeling
that I was pregnant again.
And it's kind of like inretrospect, I think that my
daughter wanted a little bit ofayahuasca in her system at the
very start of the pregnancy.
That was good for her becausethat was part of her origin

(07:15):
story too.
So I ended up taking a test atsome point when I got home, but
I did feel it already and thatjust confirmed it for me.
We were very excited and weboth felt it because I was out
of breath again very quickly andyou know, a couple of weeks

(07:35):
later, the vomiting was soon tofollow.

Angela (07:41):
Yeah, so how were you feeling throughout her pregnancy
?
Yeah, so how were?

Amelia (07:45):
you feeling throughout her pregnancy.
The first trimester I threw upa lot.
I specifically remember cravingboxed ramen and this was for
both of my pregnancies.
I hate that nasty boxed packageramen but for some reason in
pregnancy is all I wanted.
I think the salt content maybewas really helpful.

(08:08):
But I definitely threw up likeevery day, almost maybe every
other day, and it was hard tokeep things down.
There was a lot of emotionalturmoil.
We were living out in SouthwestHarbor on MDI and we didn't
have a car and it was COVID andwe were really not sure how

(08:28):
things were going to evolve.
My landlady was with us forhalf of the pregnancy and then
she just decided I think she hada son out in Texas and halfway
through the pregnancy she waslike I'm going on a road trip,
I'm going to leave you guys to.
This was like I'm going on aroad trip, I'm going to leave

(08:48):
you guys to this.
So we luckily it worked out inour favor that we were and she
took her like little yappyYorkie dogs and her parrot, her
talking parrot.
So we had a little bit of peacefor the end of the pregnancy
there.
I don't remember too much aboutthe appointments, just that I
went to every one.
I was like just like I think Ifelt like, okay, if I was going

(09:10):
to take medical care, I was justgoing to do it and do the tests
.
And I worked with two of theOBs in MDI hospital.
It was Dr Gassman and Dr Idon't remember her last name,
but I know it was Tiana andactually in the beginning I had
a different OB in SouthwestHarbor and then she left to go

(09:33):
do some training in Portland butshe ended up being back for the
birth, oddly, like by surprise.
So it was a lot of differentwomen involved in my care and I
felt good about them.
I did look for a midwife in thebeginning.
We interviewed Julie Havner andit just didn't feel like the

(09:54):
right fit, I think, with COVID,with how COVID was, I felt more
comfortable giving birth in ahospital than feeling like I
needed to wear a mask in thehouse.
And there was the aspect of thattime as well where our landlady

(10:16):
though she wasn't there at theend of the pregnancy, she had
been clear with me that she wasnot comfortable with a home
birth and while it wasn't herbody, it was her house and I
definitely felt like there was aterritorial conflict in my body
where it just made me feelnervous to like go behind her
back and like do it anyway, andand part of that was because her

(10:40):
daughter-in-law had had astillbirth at 21 weeks just the
year before in Texas.
That's the woman who she wentto go see, so so it was like
there was real trauma that wasvery fresh in her memory and I
yeah, I think in my head I waslike well, that's not going to

(11:01):
happen to me, but like well,that's not gonna happen to me,
but um, but it was real for herand I did respect that um and I
took that to heart, yeah.

Angela (11:11):
So how were you feeling about your appointments?
Um, as things kind ofprogressed, for my appointments.

Amelia (11:18):
I think I just it was like I did well in high school
because I was good at followingrules and I just felt like I was
good at following rules and Ijust felt like I was good at the
appointments too, like I justshowed up and I got rides from
like random neighbors and peoplewe were making friends with in
the area.
I just don't remember a lot.

(11:38):
I remember feeling good aboutthem.
I definitely preferred Tiana toDr Gassman and I don't exactly
remember.
Well, I remember that by the endof the pregnancy, like we did a
practice cervical check, whichdidn't hurt and was fine with

(12:00):
Tiana, and then, when it cametime for the actual birth, dr
Gassman gave me a cervical check.
That was actually the mostpainful part of the labor and
delivery process for me and itwas really bewildering for me
because I had just had theexperience with Tiana where,

(12:23):
like it didn't hurt, and so thatkind of that was frustrating
because I feel like I had anexperience where I realized that
it didn't have to hurt and Ithink that there are some OBs
that are just way more rough andor not as sensitive to mother's
bodies than others, so whichgives cervical checks a bad rap,

(12:45):
um, when, yeah, obviouslythey're like they're.

Angela (12:49):
I think they're overdone , but um, yeah, so how are the
final weeks looking leading upto when your labor started?
What was kind of going on foryou?

Amelia (13:03):
I was really nervous because I had planned with my
parents that my parents weregoing to come and visit after
the birth and I was convincedthat I was going to go early
which.
I think a lot of mothers can,like they agree, they just want
to get it out of the way, orlike they don't want to deal
with, like the waiting, thewaiting room of goingdates, or

(13:26):
feeling like it's taking forever.
So I had, my mom had, booked aflight from California at 42
weeks, which we had agreed wouldbe like a good time, and I wish
I hadn't done that and I wish Ihadn't done that.

(13:47):
That was me being a little bitnaive, admittedly to that and
how that was going to affect myprocess.
So I remember getting reallyanxious, around 41 weeks or so,
to my guesses, and it was prettyeasy to figure out when I had
conceived, just because of howthe miscarriage had happened,

(14:07):
and I was measuring like Ibelieve I think I conceived just
like two weeks immediatelyafter the miscarriage.
I believe, from what Itabulated in my head, it was
around after I felt like I wasgoing after 40 weeks that I
started throwing up again.
I had gotten relief in thesecond and third trimester and

(14:28):
then it was after the fact thatI started throwing up again.
It was frustrating because Ididn't have a car.
Well, actually, no, by then wedid get the car.
We got my grandfather's minivangot.
My dad shipped it out fromCalifornia for us because we
kind of were just, I think, myparents.

(14:49):
They thought I was crazy forhaving my like ayahuasca vision
baby.
But then they were like, allright, we're going to have to
take care of this baby.
And we had it was it had been mycar and then I had had to give
it back to them.
I drove across the country andgive it to them and my dad
shipped it back to them.
I drove across the country andgive it to them and my dad
shipped it back years later.
So we did have the car, but Iwas still nervous about getting
to the hospital in time.

(15:10):
Will was like working up to thepoint where whenever I was
going to go into labor, sosometimes he was gone and I just
didn't know how things weregoing to work.
I was dealing with some anxietyfrom like in the COVID period
where I was, uh, I twice passedout, um, which isn't something
that's normal for me, but I Idefinitely felt like I was

(15:34):
facing some inner spiritual andpsychic turmoil where I like
fainted twice that year and Ithink I was just nervous that
something was going to happenand nobody was going to be there
.
So after 41 weeks I was drivinghome from dropping Will off at

(15:59):
a painting job and I was tryingto get home but I was not able
to in time enough before I likevomited all over myself in the
car and I cried so hard when Igot home, because I felt so
disgusting and so out of controland just like tense, really

(16:22):
tense.
Just you know, I was in a housewhere the woman who, like it,
was her house, I just felt likethere was nowhere I could go and
feel safe, like dropping in,and so I told the doctors that I
wanted an induction because Ijust needed the space and the
setting to kind of get into thejourney of labor, and I do feel

(16:46):
like that was the right choicefor me.
I think I also felt like Ineeded to get the baby out
before my mom got there, andthat was also real, but it did
feel like it was time to try anddo something because I could
tell that my body and thetension was not helping me
progress at home, and yeah, so Iwent in around 41 weeks and

(17:12):
that was when I had thatcervical check that like just
felt like RAPE.

Angela (17:20):
Yeah like.

Amelia (17:21):
It brought back a lot of memories.
It was really intense.
It was July and I rememberwatching like on the TV in the
hospital all the news about thegiant wildfires in California,
which is part of why I ended upa lot in that hospital.
But I had the cervical checkwith that OB and I was just like

(17:50):
there was no way my body likereally closed up.
So we did like an overnightwith Cervidil or something and I
wish I hadn't felt like Ineeded to do that, but I did,
but it didn't take.
And after the cervical check Iwas like I'm going home, I'm
leaving Like hello nurses, hellodoctors, I'm not progressing,

(18:15):
so I'm going to go home.
And nobody fought me on it.
So I did go home.
They felt comfortable with medoing that too.
And I went home for I think itwas two or three nights and the
OB was like you'll be back liketomorrow because something's
going to happen.
And it didn't.
And I was yeah, I was just.
I was definitely in a highstress state where I wasn't

(18:38):
comfortable wherever I was.
I felt I really felt like deepdown my intuition felt like she
wanted to be born out inCalifornia, but it was on fire
and I was not.
I didn't have a place where Ifelt comfortable being out there
, and that was unfortunate.
I felt like I kind of was in animpossible scenario where my

(19:02):
body was not able to be in theplace that it wanted to be for
the birth and yeah, so I endedup going back in and I we took
induction medicine again.
I think it was a Thursdaymorning, so it was a few days
after that first try.
We were getting closer to 42weeks and and that time it did

(19:24):
take and I and I was like I wasexperiencing contractions and
stuff at home, but nothing thatwas progressing anywhere.
But it took there and and itwas, it was really intense.
I remember feeling just likethat.
It was the worst pain in mylife and that was just the real
feeling of what it was.

(19:45):
But I had Will was there, I hadsupport.
I then that day found out thatmy grandmother had passed away
while I was in the hospital inactive labor and it felt like
this weird cosmic joke.

(20:06):
That was not funny.
I mean, she had fallen down thestairs and and died from
complications surrounding thatinjury.
Um, so my parents had plannedon coming on that saturday and
my dad had to fly out to Chicagoto go and figure out the
arrangements for her body andthen fly back and then fly back

(20:31):
to Maine and then fly out toMaine because the airlines
couldn't get it together.
Yeah, that was a reallysignificant turning point.
The labor medicine took at thesame time that she passed away
and I believe I do believe that,like her soul, it was almost

(20:51):
like she let go to help mydaughter be born in a way that
is hard to think about, but,yeah, I believe that.
So we ended up giving hermiddle name my grandmother's
name, loretta.
I was going to give her mymiddle name and I couldn't.
It was too clear that I neededto honor my grandmother after

(21:14):
that and it set everything intoan extra heightened emotional
state for my parents and myselfand just a turbulent time.
I was in labor for a while.
Mdi hospital was really.
They're very patient.
They were very patient and theywanted to make sure that my

(21:38):
autonomy was generally honoredby then.
It was the OB that I had had inthe beginning, I think Dr Price
.
Her name was Grace and I likedher.
Tiana completely disappeared,which was sad because I liked
her the best, and shedisappeared.
She wasn't there the whole timethat I was there, but I was
more comfortable with Dr Priceand I remember that it got to be

(22:04):
maybe Saturday morning, so ithad been a full week of being in
and out of labor and really insome moderate form of labor and
I was really tired.
I was so tired and by then I hadended up getting an epidural

(22:28):
during certain points of wherethe pain became too much.
And unfortunately, I rememberlike the epidural gave me a
whole lot of relief and my brainwas so scared for it to wear
off because at that hospitalthey weren't trying to keep the
epidural pumping.
It was very much like you getto have it for one block and

(22:51):
then we'll see which.
I don't know how everybody doesit, but I was so nervous
because I knew I wasn't going tobe able to get it again and I
was having a really, reallydifficult time with the pain and
I was having a really reallydifficult time with the pain.
So I remember that being verystressful for me then and I did

(23:13):
end up dilating to 10 bySaturday morning and I remember
pushing, feeling like veryrelieving when I got to the
pushing stage.
I felt a lot of relief andcomfort in that stage and it was
a peaceful place to be in.
But I was pushing for, I think,six hours and they weren't

(23:34):
messing with me because herheart rate was good and I
remember being on my hands andknees on the hospital bed and
that was the only position thatwas comfortable, but I was not
progressing at all.
So it was six hours of pushing.
It felt good like I justcouldn't move without feeling
pain.
But but if I stayed in thatposition I was feeling good.

(23:56):
But she wouldn't come down.
And at that point I remember DrPrice coming in and saying that
if we couldn't like, she wasgoing to give me more Pitocin
and I was so scared of thePitocin.
The Pitocin is not good, it'snot a good thing.

(24:18):
I know that.
I know that it can maybe helppeople in certain situations,
but it was not working for me.
And I looked at her and I saidI think we're going to do a
C-section, I think we're justgoing to do it and she's coming
right now.
And we did and I definitely was.

(24:41):
I was a male surgeon who wereally, we really felt
comfortable with and theinteresting thing about him I
haven't I only saw him that onetime but he looked like the twin
of the male padrino, the churchfather of my ayahuasca church,
like they looked like twins andthat brought so much comfort to

(25:03):
me.
I was like, oh, he was like hewas from Texas, he was like down
from, he was, I think he was.
He had some Mexican ancestry,his name was Jorge and I loved
him.
He was so nice, he was verysweet, it was very like holy
father, energy, and I felt verysafe and protected in His hands.

(25:25):
You know, to the point where mybrain was like man.
I should have done this earlier, but the journey was important
and she was so puffy.
When she came out she lookedhuge.
There's a picture where shelooks bigger than me.
She was so puffy, yeah and theygave her to Will and he was

(25:46):
with her for the first momentsof really the first hour or so.
I didn't get to see her, but Iwas so loopy on the drugs.
I remember just like laughing alot and making jokes with people
and I remember that it feltlike it was like this very
strange abdominal massage, likeit felt good though, which I

(26:08):
can't say about my second birth,but it felt like really nice
and like we're like in a magicalway.
There was a woman who was theanesthesiologist and she was
like, yeah, I'm everyone's bestfriend, but it was.
It was a but.
It was a good experience.
I remember I didn't get her inmy arms for at least an hour.

(26:31):
They were wheeling me out ofthe OR and I remember when they
did finally set her on my chestfor the first time, that she
just immediately jumped on mynipple, like, and I would tell
Will, it was like a little babytiger just jumped on my nipple,
like, and I would tell, I toldWill, it was like a baby, a
little baby tiger just jumped onthe nipple and started nursing.

(26:52):
Yeah, I, in light of myc-sections, my nursing journeys
have been very smooth.
Um, and that was a reflectionof that.
Just, she knew immediately whatto do and what she wanted and
she got it.

Angela (27:07):
Yeah, so how was your postpartum time with her?

Amelia (27:12):
Well, my parents arrived the same day that she was born
and my mom was so frustratedthat she couldn't come and visit
in the hospital because of theCOVID restrictions and I really
needed the space to processeverything.
So they got to their littlerental and I had, I think well,

(27:33):
I think I either had maybe oneor two nights there, but my
recovery went pretty good.
I remember like there was gasthere was a lot of gas there's
always gas with the c-sectionbut things were good and neither
of my babies had any jaundiceissues.

(27:55):
We were always easy to get out.
There was still a lot of shockof like, oh my gosh, that really
just happened to me and okay,okay, but the baby's here and it
was my whole goal was to justget that spirit baby into my
arms and that we would processit all later.

(28:16):
Um, and my parents got there andmy mom was so helpful.
She made us a lot of food,bought us a lot of food and was
so loving on my daughter and mydaughter slept on my dad too.
My dad was processing hismother's death at the same time,
so I had compassion for why hewas being so quiet, but we did

(28:43):
find out a month later after herbirth that my dad had been
talking to another woman theweek he was visiting us, the two
weeks he was visiting us and hewas in the process of leaving
my mom very much by surprise.
And he even told me that monthlater that he had started

(29:08):
talking to this other womanwhile I was in labor, like while
his mom was done, and I I triedto not put condemnation on him
right now because I I amlearning about where everyone is
at on their journey isdifferent from me, but, um, I
definitely it was a turbulenttime for my family, with great
change and things that were kindof going on under the surface

(29:33):
that nobody was talking about.
Um, so I think that somepressure from my family
definitely influenced my birth.
Um, whether I like that or not,and I I do wish I had done some
things differently around that.
I, yeah, it's so hard and Idon't know, you know, if that

(29:55):
would have like made everythingbetter, you know, but I wish
that I had known some things,because I don't think I would
have let them into my space hadI known that all of that was
going on all at once.

Angela (30:09):
That's really hard when you have all these external
things going on and you're goingthrough all of these really big
life changes.

Amelia (30:16):
You know in your own personal life yeah, and I think
it highlights just like how thebirth of a child really can
bring out stuff from everybodyelse.
It shakes things to the surfaceand, yeah, and you can.
It's hard to ever be reallyready for what's going to happen
when a baby comes, because itchanges things, unfortunately.

(30:45):
I always remember the birth ofmy daughter coinciding with the
divorce of my parents.

Angela (30:50):
That's a lot, a lot of process and all of that.
Yeah, the divorce of my parents.
That's a lot, a lot of processand all of that yeah.

Amelia (30:59):
So now, how did you find out you were pregnant for the
second time?
Well, with, serafina had justturned two when I found out that
we were pregnant with Preston.
We had been open to conceivingfor, I think, half a year or so,
and it didn't take until aftermy husband had gotten onto the
lobster boat and started lobsterfishing.
I think there was like there wasthis sense that I knew I was

(31:24):
having a boy deep down, I knew Ihad had her and and I had this
sense that I was gonna have aboy and name him Preston after
my grandfather, my maternalgrandfather.
And yeah, Sarah just turned two, conceived just after July I
think it must have been August.
I had tests.

(31:44):
I bought like a big bulk pack awhile ago and peed on the stink
.
But I also knew that I wasn'tgoing to be doing the medical
care.
We had moved up from MDI toWashington County, closer to
where my husband was from, andthe Machias doctor situation did

(32:06):
not feel nearly as welcoming tome.
I heard a lot of bad thingsabout Downeast Community
Hospital and I also, just fromthat cervical check experience
and the whole birth experiencewith her, I was just like, well,
I know better now.
My parents, like I sabotagedmyself in some ways.

(32:27):
I let my family kind of dictatesome decisions that I was
making subconsciously, and so Ifelt like, okay, I know better
now.
Like I'm not going to deal withall of that, I can do this
myself.
So I took the test and then Ijust dealt with the throwing up.
So I just I went through thewhole first trimester and I

(32:48):
think I went 20 weeks or sowithout seeing anybody.
I was throwing up a lot but Iwas handling it.
I was maybe once every day orso and the best thing for that.
There were some days where Ididn't throw up and it was
usually the days where I atemoose meat jerky that our friend

(33:09):
had hunted and given to us andthat was really helpful.
So I'm saying to any Maine momsout there, the moose meat jerky
really can keep things down.
At least it did for me.

Angela (33:23):
That's really interesting yeah.

Amelia (33:26):
And I kept the pregnancy secret from my parents for a
while because I was trying, Iwas still really mad about the
divorce and all that.
It had been years, but theywere still in the divorce
process.
There were a lot of things todo around that and so I just

(33:50):
kept things private for a while.
So I just kept things privatefor a while and but eventually
my mom really wanted us to comeout to California for Christmas,
and we did.
Serafina really wanted to seemy mom.
They were in the process ofselling my family's home and I

(34:12):
wanted Sarah to meet my maternalgrandmother, linda, who she's
she's in hospice care right now.
So we knew we knew she didn'thave too much time and I wanted
her to meet my nanny, rosie, whoraised me till I was maybe
seven.
She was my nanny.
So I I wanted Sarah to seewhere I had been grown up and

(34:36):
even though I had a lot of hardfeelings about California and
the Bay Area, I was feeling likeit was now or never, because
the house was going to sell andmy mom was going to be
downsizing so there wouldn't beroom for all of us to come later
and then I was going to haveanother baby.
So I needed to do it then andI'm glad that we did.

(34:57):
Of course, both days I had togo on planes.
I really have been.
I have developed some flightanxiety and I threw up horribly
on both days on the plane or onthe way home.
I was on the way to the airport.
So it's not something I lookforward to doing again soon.

(35:21):
We went to California.
I think I was halfway throughthe pregnancy and I ended up
going to see Jarni maybe a weekor two before we went, because I
hadn't had any sensations upuntil then.
And with Sarah, I know, when Iwas pregnant with her, I felt

(35:42):
her at like 12 weeks.
So that was when I got oneappointment where I got like an
ultrasound.
That was like fairly quick andI wanted to make sure I didn't
get on a plane with a dead babyin my belly.
That was really my motivationwas like there's no way I'm
going out to California notknowing if the baby's alive or

(36:05):
dead.
I didn't want to hold themystery that severely and that's
why it was a good experience.
Like Jarni was nice to me andthat's why it was a good
experience.
Like Johnny was nice to me andshe's told me I could have a
VBAC if I worked with her.
But I I had already not workedwith her for a while with Erin

(36:25):
that pregnancy and just didn'tquite line up to work with her
because she wanted a lot ofvisits to Ellsworth which I
couldn't, I literally couldn'tafford.
My husband was on the lobsterboat, I didn't have access to
the car for huge chunks of timeand and I also just didn't feel
like I needed it.
I would, it would have strungme out so much.

(36:45):
Um, but you know, I had theultrasound.
I asked her to just tell mewhat the sex of the baby was,
because I I knew in my heartthat it was a boy and she just
was like it's a boy and I waslike, yeah, I know, so that was
it.
I think I went back to her onemore time to just like see if

(37:08):
care could continue with her andshe was really like, well, you
need to be going and havingthese like very frequent
appointments and elsewhere.
So I just decided I was notgoing to do that and planning on
birthing at our rental.
We we had moved again.
We we had moved a lot with ourdaughter.

(37:31):
We were struggling to findsustainable rentals at the time
and yeah.
So it was a very hands-offpregnancy and it was good.
I felt healthy during it.
I was looking after my daughterand the puking leveled off like

(37:52):
it did with her.

Angela (37:54):
So you were choosing self-directed care.

Amelia (37:56):
I was choosing self-directed care.
Yeah, I was, and I felt good,engaging as needed, going
outside, playing in the snow,going on hikes, and I think I
hit 30-something weeks earlieron think I hit 30 something

(38:18):
weeks earlier on and then Istarted feeling like maybe I
wanted to introduce myself to anOB at Machias Hospital.
I didn't necessarily feel likethings were going wrong, but I
started to feel the lack of care, like just the lack of support
from my community, and I startedto have just the thoughts of
like what I was going to doabout my daughter if I did need

(38:42):
to receive care from someone.
I also just felt like I shouldknow.
I should know who is the onewho's in charge of seeing all
the pregnant women in the county, because it's the only hospital
in the county right now and,gosh, it's terrible in my
opinion.
I mean, there's people who,there's some people who like the
care there, but at the end ofthe day, every woman I know

(39:05):
who's given birth there has feltrobbed and I don't like I don't
appreciate that.
So I went I think I was about 34weeks and I went in to see Dr
Christian and he's he's veryforthright about what he
believes.
I told him I didn't wantanother ultrasound and that was

(39:29):
really frustrating for him.
But I I was like I was 34 weeks, I felt fine, I just wanted to
talk and let him know that likeI was here being pregnant in
Washington County and you know,just in case that he should know
who I was and he had like astudent with him and I think he

(39:50):
was a little extra nitpicky withme because he needed to show
the student that I was kind ofdumb.
But uh, yeah, I asked him topalpate my belly.
I asked him to like see if hecould feel like the, if he could
guess like the size or thepositioning and and whatnot, and
, and he did.

(40:10):
But he did, he, he, he wasannoyed, he wanted to use the
machine but he did.
And you know what he he could.
He found the head and Prestonwas breech I, which I hadn't
even thought about.
He was like oh, it's a head upbaby.
You had a prior C-section andum, and my last she was kind of

(40:36):
big.
She was 9 pounds, 10 ounces.
So check in all the boxes.
I also remember like DrChristian had access to my
records from MDI and there wasfalse information on there.
I don't remember exactly, but Ithink that they were trying to
say that I hadn't given birth tolike 44 weeks or 43 weeks.

(41:02):
There was like measurementswere off For him.
It gave him more ammo to makeme look reckless and that was
frustrating for me.
And then I couldn't get myhands on those records.
I tried and like they made itreally hard for me to see it
myself because I wanted toreport it.
It was not correct unfortunatelythat happens all the time, yeah

(41:26):
, and it gives the doctors morereason to just treat you like
you don't know what you're doing.
I will say that when I left theoffice he shook my hand.
He told me that if I neededhelp, that he was going to be
there.
He's not a terrible person.

(41:46):
He just told me.
He trained in the Bronx.
He worked with some of the mostnutritionally depleted,
financially strapped women inlow-income New York City and he
was traumatized by experiencesthat he had in the hospital and
that was his direct experience.

(42:07):
So I have respect for him.
I just don't think that he wasthe best option for a lot of
women who maybe don't need to beseen as emergencies waiting to
happen.
But I kind of felt like Prestonin my belly was just telling me.
I felt like he was playing ajoke by being breached because
he didn't want to be deliveredthere and by creating such a

(42:32):
dramatic situation.
It was like all right, this isnot where we're going.
If we needed to go somewhere,um, it kind of made it very
clear that that was not anoption for me.
Um, and he he was very clear tome that we were just going to
schedule a c-section if, if Iwas going to go there I was like
I just I just came to talk, Ididn't come to do anything else.

(42:55):
Also, he had plenty of time toturn and, um, they say that
they're v-back friendly hospital, but I I don't think that they
are at all, and, and part ofthat is because it is such a
small hospital that they can'tkeep emergency staff on all the
time.
So it's not just me, I don'twant to just drag Downey's

(43:17):
Community Hospital.
They are serving a rural,low-income area, a lot of people
who are on governmentassistance, and they can't keep
like, incredibly, how you got ahelicopter out of here, man, if
it comes down to it.
So I got a better sense of here, man, if it comes down to it.
So, um, but I got a bettersense of like, okay, this
hospital really is notnecessarily equipped for a free

(43:40):
birth gone wrong.
And that did put a pit in mystomach because I it just became
clear that I couldn't like messaround if I felt like something
was off, that that wassomething I'd have to think
about, and I still felt like Iwas going to just hammer it out

(44:03):
at home and things were going tobe fine.
I was listening to positivebirth stories and just feeling
like I had it in the bag andmaybe that was to my detriment.
I found women through the FreeBirth Society to talk to and
just kind of air out my thoughtsabout things, katie, and being

(44:28):
where but, also my friend'ssister out in California.
when I had visited I had gone toa like a free birth mom's group
in california and I was talkingto her too.
I didn't know her very well butshe had said maybe she was
gonna come out and like be mybirth keeper, and she had said

(44:48):
she might come out in may tovisit her sister Lucy, who is my
friend, and I was like allright, but it was not clear in
like what timeline.
And then she wanted to go visither grandma in New York and I
wasn't holding my breath for herto come out.
I didn't know her very well andI wasn't sure how much I wanted

(45:09):
to associate with women in thefree birth society either.
Because the whole event withthat for the free birth group it
like it was lovely and it was alittle off-putting for me
because like it kind of wentfrom just celebrating birthing
mothers to like one of the momswas talking about how like she

(45:32):
would just die in labor if shehad to because it was worth it
to live like her ancestors andit got kind of like it was a
little disturbing for me becauseas much as I can respect
autonomous birth, I just didn'tlike feel comfortable with that

(45:52):
level of commitment to freebirth at all costs, and that's I
mean.
That is a personal choice formothers, obviously, but it did
highlight where I felt like mylimits were.
Also, when I was in Californiaon that trip halfway through the

(46:14):
pregnancy, I took my husbandand my daughter to a
family-friendly ayahuascaceremony.
I had been to the church onceor twice before and I felt
comfortable in there.
But it was a beautiful ceremonyand I had kind of forgotten

(46:36):
about it throughout my pregnancybecause I didn't want to think
about the message that I hadreceived, which was I have had
some very strong experienceswith that medicine and it didn't
quite touch me that intenselyin that time.
In that time I remember feelinga warm hug from Grandmother

(46:59):
Ayahuasca and receiving themessage that C-sections were
really good, and embracinggratitude for that surgery and
just what it can create forwomen and mothers on this earth.

(47:20):
In this time where there is whatI would agree is like a degree
of spiritual warfare, where weare dealing with more challenges
than meet the eye, and physicalchallenges and tensions from a

(47:44):
lot of attacks that are notalways visible, it's something
that's hard for me to maybe putinto words, but, yeah, I had
been processing the birth of mydaughter and and not wanting a
c-section again.
But but the message like fromthat master plan was that they

(48:04):
were a beautiful thing and thatthey were okay and there was
nothing wrong with it inherently.
It was just about how you getto it.
That matters and that's why Idid hold out for myself.
It helped me feel more okay,embracing whatever path.

(48:27):
Ultimately that God took me on.
With the birth of Preston, Ijust knew that I wasn't going
back to Machias because I don'twant to have a doctor that wants
to cut into me so badly.
Right away.
That's a little too eager and Ijust didn't have faith that a

(48:48):
good job was going to be done.
But by the end of thatpregnancy I was very frustrated.
I didn't feel like I had a lotof support.
I didn't end up meeting Katieout in Bangor she was busy with
her kids, but I went to a momand baby group in Machias and
that's when I met you.
You weren't there, but it wasAlana and Kristen that directed

(49:12):
me to you and that's kind ofwhen the gears started turning
for that birth, because I wasalready maybe 37 weeks or so and
you came up and did a photoshoot for us and our family and
we talked about where I was at,and it helped me move a lot of

(49:33):
congested energy out of mysystem.
I was able to really thinkabout what I wanted, what I was
okay with, questioning, howcommitted I was to staying in
our rental which was like atrailer that was not holding
heat well, with a landlord thatwe were not always having the

(49:54):
best relationship with.
And I had started havingnightmares at that point too,
where I was on that land and badthings were happening to me,
and so I definitely felt likethe spiritual warfare element in
that birth zone because it justfelt like a puzzle that I

(50:15):
couldn't piece together and mybody was experiencing a lot of
tension and I couldn't let go.
And it was after her birth thatI had healed a lot of sexual
issues and I was accessingreally high and euphoric states
with that part of my body, whichI am still trying to recover.

(50:41):
After that birth I was in areally good spot, I felt like.
And then the nightmares startedcoming in and everything
started shutting down.
Our cat suddenly died and thatmade me feel like my protector
had been taken from me, which Iremember.
I was texting the woman fromthe Free Birth Society out in

(51:05):
California my friend's sisterand she got really mad at me
about like that I was making upthat the cat was why I was
having trouble getting into it.
It was telling me I was goingto sabotage my birth.
And it was a long drawn outmessage about how I was
sabotaging my birth by feelingthese feelings and wanting to go

(51:29):
, considering considering goingin somewhere and talking to
somebody.
And I didn't, you know, becauseI was thinking about going to
Ellsworth and talking tosomebody, but they were so
booked Like I literally couldn'tget in to Ellsworth through
Jarni at all.
They were too busy and I didn'twant to just go see whoever was

(51:49):
on call there.
I didn't feel like that was theright move for me.
So I had met you and then wehad the photo shoot and you went
back home, and that was theright move for me.
So I had met you and then wehad the photo shoot and you went
back home, and it was the dayafter that I went into a very
strange zone of labor.
I had taken my daughter outsomewhere, I do not remember

(52:10):
where, and I remember that I wasso hungry from being out that I
ate a can of sardines that hadlike some kind of seed oil in
them it was like canola oil orsomething which like normally if
I have a little bit of it.
Like I needed to be curled upin child's pose or I was in such

(52:41):
pain that I was going to passout again.
It just it happened verysuddenly.
I remember being on the porchin child's pose and trying to
call my husband and telling himhe needed to get here because I
was losing control of my bodyand I had no help, because I was
losing control of my body and Ihad no help and I was calm.
I was really trying to sinkinto the calmness but by the end

(53:02):
of the evening I startedthrowing up excessively and
experiencing really, reallyintense pain in my scar, in my
cesarean scar, to the pointwhere I really felt like I
needed help and I did not knowwhere to go.
I did not want to go to Machias.
We had Will's mom come over andbe with my daughter while he

(53:26):
held me through all of that.
I was awake pretty much thewhole night, throwing up and
feeling all of this pain andreally trying to move through it
and let go.
You know I had read Yolanda'sbook.
I was trying to like get intothe zone, but I couldn't deny
what was coming up for me in mybody and I remember that morning

(53:53):
.
We got through the morning.
I think I was able to sleep fortwo or three hours and we got
up in the morning and I tried tocall MDI hospital because
that's where I had birthedbefore.
I knew some of the people.
I tried to call there and seeif they would take me and it was
a no, which was was fun, and Iended up going all the way to

(54:16):
Bangor that day because I Idefinitely felt like something
was wrong.
The level of pain in the scararea specifically was concerning
for me.
So we, we all drove down withWill's mother and my daughter
because we just didn't know whatwas going to happen or if they
were going to like want to doanything right away or what was

(54:40):
going to progress.
By the morning the pain hadleveled out a bit.
I remember just craving coconutwater and telling you I needed
coconut water, which we wereeventually able to get before we
had it down.
So I was 37 weeks.
We were at the Bangor NorthernLights Hospital I was never been
there before um for myself andthey monitored me.

(55:06):
They I got, I did get.
I remember I think I had acervical check twice and they
didn't.
They didn't hurt.
I really uh, I really seems todepend on who is trying to give
those things.
We stayed there overnight tomonitor me because it was

(55:28):
unclear.
I think we were kind of thinkingwell, maybe if we overnighted
that my body would go into it.
Maybe if we overnighted that mybody would go into it.
But the policy they couldn'toffer induction because I was 37
weeks.
They said I could come back inlike three days and then they
would do it.
And that was kind of a relieffor me because I didn't want to

(55:51):
make that decision by coercionwhen I was already in the
hospital.
We stayed the night, the painwent away, things kind of
leveled out and we went home andI remember being frustrated
because I just had I wanted mybody to just up and do the thing
at that point because it was ascare.
It was scary and it was kind ofscary to go back to Washington

(56:17):
County where it feels like theoptions are so limited, after
having had that experiencehappen so suddenly to me,
because I just felt the realityof the lack of maternal care in
this area very, very starkly,because it's it's a drive to get
to Bangor.

Angela (56:36):
It's really it's like 86 miles.

Amelia (56:38):
It's yeah, it's very far away, yeah for, like for for
what happens in labor and whatcan happen so quickly in labor.
It just um, it was concerningum, but I definitely we kind of
all agreed that going to Bangorfor that first time it it kind
of felt like, you know, in thesense of like all of us being

(57:03):
one, like the idea of oneness ofall beings, like it was like we
were troubleshooting whatneeded to happen to get the baby
here and I was able to allowmyself to look at Bangor and I
felt comfortable there.
I met a midwife who had donelike she had helped a woman do

(57:26):
like four VBACs after fiveC-sections or something crazy
like that.
Like there were women therethat knew that things were
possible in the rightcircumstances, that you could
trust um body and birth tounfold perfectly and and so that

(57:47):
was comforting for me, thatthat, um, it wasn't just people
trying to convince me to do thisor that.
There was a lot of openness.
Even though I had never beenthere before and I was there 37
weeks.
Everybody was really nice to me.
You can't just go do weekly orbiweekly appointments if you

(58:08):
live three hours away, have onecar and already have a child.
None of that works or makessense.
So they were very, verywelcoming, and I think they
could understand that I wasputting a lot of care into my
pregnancy.
You know, I got home, though,and I was getting like near
daily calls from them where itwas like hey, are you coming

(58:28):
back?
We want you to come back.
We couldn't induce you two daysago, but now we can.
We couldn't induce you two daysago, but now, but now we can.
Eventually they stopped, and,honestly, in my heart, when I
was back home, I really like Iwanted to go back.
I wanted to go back.
I felt like I wanted aninduction, I wanted to just do

(58:48):
it, but in my gut, in my spirit,was, and my baby was saying no,
my baby wanted to just staylonger.
I felt that very clearly, but Ifelt that he guided me there,
because eventually, I might needto go back.
So we kind of let that sit inour systems.

(59:09):
My husband and I and we wereworking with trying to if I was
not going to deliver in therental that my we were going to
need to find care for mydaughter, and so I kind of
forced everything into high gearfor organizing and navigating
that.
Um and and that was helpfulultimately, I think.

(59:38):
I remember I just I wasfrustrated, I wanted to go back
and I couldn't let myselfbecause I felt like everything
was fine but I was chugging likea liter of coconut water every
day and I was making sure like Ineeded to be hydrated.
I felt very fragile but I alsofelt like I wasn't ready to go

(59:58):
back and I was trying to letbaby decide and we were in
dialogue with each other.
We named him after my maternalgrandfather and he did a lot of
architecture work, I believe he.
The joke is that I knew thatultimately he wanted to be born

(01:00:21):
in a hospital because he was acivilized man and my car it was
his car that I inherited and Ifelt like I really had to let
his spirit kind of help navigatethe birth process for baby

(01:00:43):
Preston Jr, and I remember thathe helped with the design and
building of a hospital forNative Americans out in New
Mexico.
It was important for him togive rural communities and

(01:01:04):
communities with no emergencytype of medical care that access
to care and it felt like it wasreflecting in my experience up
here of just seeing theimportance of that when it is
needed.
Um, yeah, yeah, I think withwith the free birth movement,
there's so much disrespect tomedical care in general that, um

(01:01:28):
, you know, if people keep thatattitude that it's like it's
going to be hard to keep themedical care feeling ready and
able to even help.
It just creates this battle,which I don't think is helpful.
And naturally there's good andevil operating in the hospitals
and that's part of what theproblem is is being able to get

(01:01:53):
what you need through thehospital.
So I remember I think through mycalculations, I got around to
42 weeks and I was gardening, Iwas setting up our herb garden
and going to the communitygarden.
I was really just trying toimmerse myself in the springtime

(01:02:17):
and enjoy what I had of May toget things planted.
Eventually I just really feltlike I was hitting a point where
I needed to make a choice,because I had already been
feeling like we were probablygoing to bank war to have the

(01:02:38):
baby and at a certain point,around 42 weeks, I started just
feeling this murky kind ofstagnant, stuck energy down in
my belly, feel confident stayingat our little old dinghy
trailer to give birth with mydaughter present.

(01:03:00):
I talked to my aunt who youknow, had her two beautiful home
births out in Oregon, and Iremember talking to you about it
all too, and try to find my waythrough it.
And try to find my way throughit.
My home birthing aunt alsowarned me about the Free Birth

(01:03:24):
Society and told me that itworks until it doesn't, and then
it's a catastrophic situationthat you've got to deal with and
you've got to do what you feellike you need to do.
And I remember talking to mybaby Preston, because I called
up Bangor and I told him I wasgoing to come back and that I
was going to have that baby,because I was over 42 weeks and

(01:03:48):
you know, I knew that if I gotthere, that that's what we were
going to do.
I think I deep down felt likethat was kind of what was going
to happen, but I still feltstubborn and hopeful also, just
that things were still going towork out and that I could manage
to have the baby at home.
I was trying to stay open tohowever things were going to

(01:04:12):
unfold and I was listening to mybody.
And during that month that wewere at home, my husband ended
up going to the emergency roombecause he had, like a digestive
crisis, medical crisis.
He had a medical crisis and heneeded to see a doctor and it
was a week long of acutesymptoms and it just made it

(01:04:35):
feel very clear that our shipwas not strong, that we were
sailing on and that we weregoing to need extra help.
Luckily his symptoms did passin time for baby's delivery.
But it made it clear that hewas not going to be going back
on that lobster boat that summeras he wanted to, which was

(01:04:56):
helpful ultimately for having anewborn and helpful for my peace
of mind, because there's toomany men that are dying on those
boats right now.
I don't know if you saw therecent news.
The Washington County, I think,has lost three men, all fathers
, to the ocean this winter.

(01:05:18):
And so it was calming to mypeace of mind that he had a
medical crisis and he was notgoing back on that boat.
So I had gone to the ER, he hadgone to the ER we were all
having emergencies to the ER.

(01:05:39):
We were all having emergencies,so I felt like it was of my
best interest to plan to go andhave the baby.
It's a two and a half, I thinktwo hour drive from here to
Bangor.
I was kind of still hoping thatI was going to go into labor.
On the drive there I was likemaybe, like I kept talking to
him, I'm like, come on, let's doit, let's make this happen.
We had arranged for my daughterto be with her grandmother and

(01:05:59):
that was helpful.

Angela (01:06:02):
You called them ahead of time and told them you were
coming in.
I did.

Amelia (01:06:05):
Yeah, I said that we were coming in.
I was hoping I was going to gointo labor and I didn't and that
was okay.
Really, I felt like I was kindof seeing everything that was
going to unfold before it didand I was at peace with it.
I felt like my baby was tryingto lead the process and I was
okay with that too.

(01:06:25):
I remember that the doctorswere offering to induce stel.
My tests were showing that I wasnot in serious stress, which
was probably true, but I think Ilet them do an ultrasound on
the baby and they claimed thatthey saw meconium in the waters,

(01:06:48):
which I didn't get confirmationon.
I believe I was far enoughalong that that was likely and I
felt like you know people liketo joke that like, oh, the baby
was just so happy in there thathe didn't want to come out.
But I think also it's a realitythat, like, some babies might
feel too stressed out to comeout and that's what I felt was

(01:07:12):
going on, because I felt likethat stagnant, murky energy and
I I felt like he was stressedout and I felt like he needed
some help and I my week-longinduction process.
I was not prepared to leave mydaughter at home for that length
of time for an inductionprocess that might not even take

(01:07:33):
.
That had caused significantstress on my body the last time
I had tried it.

Angela (01:07:38):
Back into it, this time with a lot more autonomy and
knowledge.

Amelia (01:07:42):
Yeah, and just acceptance that the C-section
was going to be the right move.
But it wasn't really for sureuntil we just got there.
And then I got a text fromWill's mom that my daughter had
stuck something up her nose andshe was in the emergency room up

(01:08:05):
in Magias and she was in theemergency room up in Magias.
So all members of our familyhad emergencies within the same
month.
It was really kind of comedicin some ways.
She was fine, but I could tellthat she was stressed out, that
I was not there and that hadcaused her to do something that
she normally would not do andthat I needed to get home as

(01:08:28):
quickly as I could.
So that was really what made mefeel like, okay, we're just
going to do the C-section rightnow.
They had asked me if I wantedto do it that night or the next
day.
Like in my heart I was like, oh, I want to have my son on 515
because she was born 717.
And it was still 5-14.
And I was a little upset.

(01:08:48):
But I knew like, okay, I got toget this baby out right now so
I can start healing, so I canget back to my daughter, who's
freaking out, whether she knowsit or not, they were like.
You can come back tomorrow.
They said I couldn't stay thenight there.
I think they just wanted me toget it done that night and you
know what I did.

(01:09:08):
And just another comment onlike how I know people get
frustrated with electiveC-sections because it's like not
God's timing, it's like youneed to let God choose the
timing of your birth.
And ultimately I chose thetiming of my son's birth.
You know I had a little bit ofpressure from the hospital but I

(01:09:31):
went in and said that this washappening and um, but it just.
It ended up turning out that myone of my good friends down in
Ellsworth I knew that, wevaguely knew that she was
pregnant.
We don't see each other toooften.
I knew she was pregnant too andwe had our babies.
She was at MDI and I was inBangor, but we had our babies on

(01:09:54):
the same day, both boys sameday, same hour, same within the
same hour, on that night of 514.
5, 14 and um and I've beendonating so much milk to him for
the last 10 months um, so ourboys were born, which feels like

(01:10:14):
divine, like god orchestrated,absolutely so.
I think there's nuance in likewhen the babies want to be born
and how they make that clear,because it's not always just
that labor is initiated andthat's how the babies choose to
come out.
I think that babies do allkinds of things to come out and

(01:10:37):
sometimes they might do thingsthat are not just initiating
labor in the straightforward way.
Just initiating labor in thestraightforward way.
I felt like in that 37 weekweird labor zone that I was in,
it felt like a warning and a waythat my son was protecting me
by helping me see that I hadmore options than I felt like I

(01:10:58):
had, because I really just feltlike free birth or what like go
to Machias, and I really didn'twant to do that.
So I was glad that I was able tobroaden my scope of what was
possible, because Bangor felttoo far away before then.
Yeah, and then I was right nearyou and we had just got you on
board to be my doula, so it waseasy for you to come and help

(01:11:24):
deliver me non-hospital food andhelp me keep my placenta on ice
, which was awesome because wereally wanted to keep that.
And, yeah, and the hospitalhonored the desire to keep the
placenta, which I know at MDI,my emergency C-section with
Sarah, they took it away, eventhough it was on my plan, that I

(01:11:45):
wanted it.
I think it was just kind ofbecause it was an emergency.
It just nothing went right andI had so many different doctors
that no one was keeping track,still messed up.
But I was able to keep it invigor and so to back up just a
little bit how was your birth?
I had another wonderful surgeonup just a little bit.

(01:12:09):
How was your birth?
I had another wonderful surgeon.
She was like this older italianwoman named dr rinaldi and I
liked her.
I liked her vibe, she I Iremember I was just hanging out
on the whenever they would bringin the people like the
anesthesiologist came in and thesurgeon came in and I I would
ask them if they knew what theywere doing.
I asked everybody I'm like areyou good at your job?

(01:12:31):
Because you better be.
And then I really thought itwas funny.
I remember the anesthesiologisttold me that he was trained by
YouTube University and laughedand I was like, all right, I
didn't have quite the same levelof an awesome abdominal massage
during the C-section, but Iremember that Dr Rinaldi was

(01:12:55):
telling me that she was going tomake sure I could have many
more babies.
That is what she said.
I did have an easier timewalking around afterwards and I
know she also told me.
She told me that she was goingto treat me as if I were her own
daughter, and she was.

(01:13:16):
She was very comforting for me,she was very sweet.
She wore like she had thesebeautiful pearl earrings on.
I remember that she was.
She was small and you know Iit's very likely that other
people have had bad experienceswith her, who knows but in that
moment it felt very aligned andI felt connected with her in a

(01:13:38):
positive way, just appreciatingthat I have had surgeons that
have been so kind to me andspeaking with me throughout the
surgeries instead of to eachother about nonsense.
So I feel like I haveexperienced two very beautiful
surgeries and I understand wherethe ayahuasca was trying to

(01:14:04):
show me that all of it can bebeautiful if it's, if it's done
right and um, and to just haverespect for, like, medical
advancements that we have beenable to achieve and in our world
, like we, those things would beso different if we didn't have
the capacity to do those kindsof surgeries.

Angela (01:14:26):
So so, yeah, and then the and you were also received
very positively.
Yeah, everyone wasunderstanding For the most part.

Amelia (01:14:34):
There was one woman I didn't really like, but she
didn't stick around for thesurgery.
I don't think.
Yeah, we had some issues withpostpartum because we were in a
rush to get back to my daughterand they wanted to make sure
things were okay, because wewere in a rush to get back to my
daughter and they wanted tomake sure things were okay.
I remember having to sign awaiver because I was using the
hospital bed to bed share withmy son.
I wasn't taking Oxycontins, Iwas feeling comfortable sleeping

(01:14:57):
with him.
He did not want to sleep in thereceiving basket that they had
or whatever.

Angela (01:15:03):
So they made you sign a waiver.

Amelia (01:15:04):
I had to sign a waiver that, like my son, could pass
away because I was choosing tobed share at the hospital, which
I respectfully understand.
They deal with a lot of allkinds of people and that's just
how things are right now withliability issues.

Angela (01:15:21):
It's interesting though that they're like just sign this
paper and then okay, fine.

Amelia (01:15:24):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, which was kind of cool.
I also remember that when itwas time for us to go, some guy
came in and talked to us aboutsome things and made sure we
didn't want to circumcise him,you know.
But when we said no, he alsowas very sure that he assured us

(01:15:47):
that it was a cosmeticprocedure and that it didn't
actually make a difference in inany way, shape or form for
hygiene risks, as long as you'recleaning that thing well.
So I just felt like there wassome good progressive signs that
things were operating betterthere than horror stories I've

(01:16:09):
heard from other women.
Yeah, I think while I had abetter short-term recovery with
him, longer term it has been alittle bit more challenging.
I think part of that's justbecause I have two kids and no
significant family support tohelp in, the every day, every

(01:16:30):
week type of sense.
Um, so it's maybe to beexpected, but nothing, nothing
has been too hard and I've been,you know, donating milk, I, I,
I think that women need to feelless caught up in the fear of
C-sections, like destroying yourchance of breastfeeding, and I

(01:16:52):
think that the thought that thatwill happen might make it
happen more perhaps.
But everyone really isdifferent and on their own
journey, and I see that more andmore because I nursed Sarah for
two and a half years and thisis looking like it's going to be
similar.
As long as you're okay nottaking really heavy pain drugs,

(01:17:17):
you can do whatever you wantpostpartum, with nursing the
baby.

Angela (01:17:22):
As a final question if you were to give advice to
someone who's expecting, or evennew parents, what's the biggest
thing you'd want to share?

Amelia (01:17:32):
The biggest thing that I want every mom to feel like she
can do is to find her innervoice and listen to it, because
nobody is going to give you theanswers more than you can.
There are professionals who canhelp you see your choices, but

(01:17:55):
at the end of the day, it'sreally important for women to
learn how to listen to theirbodies and take care of
themselves.
I remember when I was gettingthe ultrasound with Preston,
they were trying to tell me hewas going to be 11 pounds and
that he was going to be so bigand all this stuff.
And I didn't listen to it.

(01:18:16):
I just I laughed and I said Ithink he's going to be smaller
than my daughter was.
And he was, and one of the OBswas was.
He looked at me and he told methat like the the more he does
this line of work, the more herealizes that the mothers are
are often more right than uh,than the machines, and so I

(01:18:37):
think you you got to have likeappreciation for what the
machines can do and what themedicine can do.
But um, but at the core of it,our maternal instinct is the
strongest compass for navigatingbirth and like, it's okay if
you don't want to seek out carethroughout the whole pregnancy

(01:18:58):
like there are.
There are doctors who can helpmeet you halfway.
I think it's can be helpful tobuild a relationship with
somebody throughout the care.
But we're all different.
We got to find what works forus and if something is just
feeling not in alignment, thatthere's no reason to try and

(01:19:18):
force it because there's got tobe something better out there.
And you know, I, I feel like Ido grieve my birth experiences
too.
I really, I, I want birth to beeasy for me and I wish I could
have 20 kids.
I do, I really do.
But uh, we live in a world withoccasional restrictions, so you

(01:19:42):
just gotta do what you gotta do.
And, and you know now, I, I, I,I read, I hear and I read
stories like, listen toeveryone's stories and and don't
limit yourself to what youthink is possible.
I know I've had two c-sectionsnow and I'm up in washington
county and I don't plan onhaving another baby anytime soon

(01:20:03):
, but I know that there areplenty of women who have VBACs
after two C-sections or more.
And just the capacity to stayopen to what you and your body
and your baby are doing andfeeling in the moment is
important.

Angela (01:20:22):
Yeah, just tune into what is best for you and your
baby, and even that could changewith each pregnancy right, like
so much absolutely well.
Thank you so much, amelia, forsharing your amazing birth
stories with us today.
It's been such an honor hearingthem and chatting with you.

Amelia (01:20:43):
Thank you so much too.

Angela (01:20:46):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
labor of love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth

(01:21:09):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.

(01:21:29):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.