Are you a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth? You’re in the right place!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Keely's first two home births
- The complications that lead to her birthing her third baby in a hospital
- Finding natural healing outside of the western medical system
- The home birth's of Keely's fourth and fifth babies
- Thoughts behind Keely's decision to leave the MatriBirth Midwifery Institute after having paid so much money for it
- All about Keely's sixth and current pregnancy journey - and her decision to choose an unassisted birth plan amidst all of the freebirth drama
- ….and a whole lot more!
Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…
If you are ready to prepare for an autonomous birth experience, where you’re respected as the authority over your body and your baby… regardless of where you plan on birthing -
CLICK HERE for 10% off the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course!
Not sure where to start? I’ve got you covered! Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider. Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Keely (00:00):
Students were being kicked out of the program for
having private conversations inspaces that were outside of the
school social network and thatreally, really rubbed me the
wrong way.
I was not kicked out.
I will say that I leftvoluntarily, but that, just like
(00:20):
that, was a really big problemto me.
That was a really big problemto me.
(00:42):
And openly on the schoolnetwork, the school social
Mighty Networks page, we'reencouraging women within the
program to turn each other inand to me that was just a hard
pass.
That's not what I'm.
Just I don't like that at all.
Like I feel like a big reasonthat I went with MMI was to like
build community with otherwomen and I just felt like it
was really wrong for them to betrying to get us to turn on each
other for asking questionsabout like, hey, are we going to
(01:03):
like learn about anything likekind of related to midwifery?
Angela (01:07):
Like we're not even looking for like the actual
hands on skills, but like we'dlike to have some information,
some resources.
Keely (01:13):
I don't think, and I don't think that any of it
started out as like peoplewanting to leave the program or
malicious, like I think it waslike genuine concern and women
(01:35):
wanting to.
I think women even willing towait, like you know, like we
have lifetime access, like canyou use this feedback to add to
the program and we can have theinformation later, or whatever.
But it was just not there, was.
They did not accept thefeedback.
Angela (01:57):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(02:18):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome to episode 123 of myMain Birth.
Today's birth story guest isKeely.
(02:40):
She and I first met around thistime last year, when we had
both signed up for the FreeBirth Society's brand new school
, which was originally marketedand sold as the MatriBirth
Midwifery Institute.
Keely is here to share allabout her beautiful birth
stories and what led her tochoose free birth herself, and
(03:02):
all about her experience insideof the matribirth midwifery
institute or mentor institute.
I don't know whatever.
I do want to say at thebeginning of all of these
episodes, though, that I verymuch support a woman's right to
birth where, how and withwhoever she chooses.
These episodes are more tohighlight the separation of the
(03:25):
beautiful idea of free birththat can be a perfectly fine
option for many women from theideology that is promoted by the
free birth society.
All right, let's do it.
Hi Keely, welcome to my MainBirth.
Hello, did you take the RBKschool, or was it just Emma?
I didn't.
Keely (03:46):
I actually had had like zero involvement with Rebirth
Society and then just was like,oh, I'm going to take the most
expensive thing they offer.
Angela (03:56):
Yeah, that's kind of how I did it too.
That's interesting.
So, to get started, would youshare a little bit about you and
your family?
So to get started, would you?
Keely (04:05):
share a little bit about you and your family.
So my name is Keely and me andmy family live in Tejeras, new
Mexico, kind of up in themountains.
It's pretty peaceful.
It's a good place to raise afamily.
Me and my husband have fivechildren.
They are 12, 11, 8, 4, 2.
And then we're actually I'mpregnant with our sixth baby
(04:28):
right now and I'm about 23 weeksalong.
We homeschool Me and my husbandare both nurses.
I am lucky enough to be able towork remotely.
For the most part, I stay homewith our kids and work remotely
when I can, which isn't all thatmuch with five kids and
homeschooling.
But yeah, so that's kind of alittle bit about us.
Angela (04:53):
Awesome.
Now would you share a littlebit about what your views were
on birth, like growing up andlike maybe some stories that you
heard like about birth when youwere younger.
Keely (05:06):
I mean, growing up I didn't really know that there
was any way to give birthbesides like going to the
hospital, like that's what youdo, I mean.
Okay, I kind of scratched thatbecause I always knew my mom was
born at home, but it was alwayskind of like she was born like
(05:28):
at home, in a trailer, like inthe backwoods of Alabama, and it
was kind of like always likealmost a joke, like ha ha, like
you know you were, you know, youknow, I don't know it was.
It wasn't something that waslike taken seriously or it was
like a real option.
It was.
It wasn't something that waslike taken seriously or was like
a real option.
It was just like, oh gosh, howyou know how backwards were you
(05:49):
guys that you were born at homein a trailer, right.
So I guess, like I always kindof knew in the back of my mind
that that had happened, but itwasn't like uh, like something
that like that was to berepeated, right, like birth
happened in a hospital.
All of me and my brothers wereborn in the hospital.
Probably my first real encounterwith birth was when I was 14,
(06:12):
my mom had a baby and I wassuper excited to get to go with
her and I got to hold her legwhenever she was pushing.
And I got to see my littlebrother come into the world and
he was my mom's fifth baby andwe got to the hospital and she
was 10 centimeters dilated andhad him like in an exam room and
(06:34):
the whole time she was liketelling them to just like leave
him there.
She wanted her epidural becauseshe'd had an epidural her first
four births.
So like seeing my mom have himand really up until it was time
to push, like be so calm andlike it just didn't seem to
(06:55):
phase her at all really untillike the pushing and whenever
she found out she wasn'tactually getting methadone and
she was like, oh, no, no.
But I think that was reallyimpactful for me as as a young
teenager to see my mom have anatural birth.
And I think when I got pregnantwith my own daughter I was
(07:15):
pretty young, I was 21.
I was pretty adamant that Iwanted to have a natural birth
in the hospital but the OB I wasseeing pretty much laughed in
my face about that and was like,yeah, we'll see about that when
the time actually comes.
So what was your pregnancy likewith her?
I saw a traditional OB untilabout maybe a little over the
(07:36):
halfway point, maybe like 25, 27weeks, and that's whenever we
had the conversation about how Idid not want an epidural and
she literally laughed in my faceand was like, well, we'll see,
you know, and I was like, yeah,we will see.
And I literally never went backto her and I, that's like kind
(07:57):
of when I found home birthreally, and um, so I I was in my
third trimester by the time Ifound a home birth midwife and
like officially switched overbut I did end up having I didn't
have an epidural to have mybaby at home and it was.
(08:18):
It was.
I mean, I think for most women,first births are pretty intense.
Like definitely, I feel likeyou definitely get pushed to the
limits for I mean just ofeverything, like mentally,
physically, emotionally.
I mean it's just such a, it'ssuch a journey and I think that
(08:39):
that's really, at least for me,has been like a really important
part of like my motherhood andmy identity as a mom is like
that first, that first birth,and just like the challenge that
it was and like I did it wow,that's amazing.
Angela (08:57):
So how was your actual like birth experience?
I mean it was hard.
Keely (09:01):
It wasn't.
It wasn't super long, it was.
It was, I mean it hard, but Idon't think it was any harder
than any other first time momhaving a baby at home.
You know, like it's hard workand I was totally caught off
guard by the pain.
I remember like people beinglike, oh, it's so painful, it's
so painful, and I guess I justwas like, okay, whatever, like
(09:23):
people are so dramatic, I haveperiod cramps, like it can't be
that much worse than that and itwas so much worse than that.
Um, and you know, maybe it'sgood that I didn't have any, uh,
like real understanding of howintense it would be before it
actually happened.
You know, maybe there's areason for that, but, um, it was
(09:47):
good.
I mean, there were nocomplications.
Uh, I was in like active, hardlabor for about 12 hours and, uh
, I was just so relieved to bedone.
I was like, yay, I'm done.
And it probably took a coupleof weeks to like, really like
the magnitude of the wholeexperience to really hit me.
(10:09):
But, like in the immediateaftermath, I just remember being
so glad it was over.
Angela (10:15):
Did you have a midwife with you?
Keely (10:18):
I did.
Yeah, I had, um, I had twomidwives there.
They worked together but theywere super hands-off.
I know that they checked me afew times, but mainly that's
because I was asking.
It wasn't like it was forced onme, it was just me being
(10:40):
impatient and being like, okay,can I push yet Tell me, tell me
if I'm almost done.
And then I I'm assuming I don'tactually remember, but I do
assume that they probably used aDoppler a few times during
active labor, but other thanthat, I mean they didn't, I mean
they didn't really do anything.
They were just there, um, youknow, like all the times that I
(11:04):
kept being like I can't do this,I can't do this, you know to
remind me that, like, but you'redoing it.
Angela (11:11):
Exactly.
That's just really late, that's.
That's so helpful, you know so.
So you had a good experiencethen for your first.
How was your postpartum?
Keely (11:23):
How was your postpartum?
My postpartum was reallydifficult and a lot of that, I
think, was just identityshifting and being a young mom
and me and my husband we didn'tknow anybody else our age who
(11:43):
had a baby or any of our friendswho had a baby, you know.
So it was like it was a bigshift to go from, like being in
college and all of our friendslike you know, doing the college
thing, and it's like all of asudden we have a baby and we're
not doing that.
And then also and I mean, youdon't you love it and you learn,
I guess we um, my husband wasso excited and so proud and like
(12:06):
literally invited like everyperson we knew, to our house,
like within the first severaldays of our daughter being born,
and I was like just physicallywrecked In hindsight, like that
was horrible to like have allthese people at my house right
after I just like went throughthis like huge physical,
(12:30):
emotional, like shift and it waslike everybody we knew got to
witness it and that, you knowthat was definitely not repeated
, but that was that madepostpartum pretty difficult.
(12:50):
And then we had family that cameand stayed with us for maybe a
week and a half after she wasborn and again, that was
something that we definitelyhave not repeated because it was
just it.
Just for me personally I'm apretty private person that was
just really uncomfortable andmaybe it was my in-laws who came
and stayed with us.
(13:10):
And physically postpartum, Idid have a tear that was
stitched and caused quite a bitof pain in the initial 48 hours
(13:35):
post-birth, but other than that,everything was pretty seamless
physically was, everything waspretty seamless physically so
when did you find out you werepregnant with your second?
well, pretty, I said it probablytook a couple of weeks to for
everything to settle and for,like I don't know, I mean it
(14:00):
took more than a couple of weeksfor everything to settle right,
it's a huge, especially thefirst time.
It's such a huge, just such ahuge shift like from maiden to
mother, you know, and I thinkthat hit me really hard, being
so young but also right away,like I just fell in love with
being a mom.
I fell in love with my baby andI knew I wanted another one,
(14:23):
like soon, fell in love with mybaby and I knew I wanted another
one, like soon.
So we got pregnant.
Our first was I think she waseight months old whenever I got
pregnant with my second.
How did you find out?
Um, I am not a daytime napperlike at all.
(14:44):
I don't like to sleep duringthe day.
I get super grumpy when I wakeup and I was like needing a nap
every day and I was like youknow what, I'm pretty sure I'm
pregnant.
And so we took a test and I waspregnant.
Angela (15:01):
So what were your thoughts in choosing your care
then the second time around?
So what were your thoughts inchoosing your care then the
second time around.
Keely (15:06):
The second time around, I like, went straight to the
midwives who had helped me withour first baby and I had
midwifery care just from thebeginning of that pregnancy.
Angela (15:21):
So how were you feeling during that pregnancy?
Keely (15:28):
That was probably like my easiest pregnancy well, I mean,
pregnancy is always hard, butthat was probably like it was.
It was a good experience.
Like I felt good, I feltexcited, like I can remember,
like some big emotions around,like my baby her name's Nat not
(15:49):
being like the center of ourworld anymore, like you really
just can't comprehend that.
Like the love multiplies, itdoesn't divide.
Angela (16:10):
Right, it is.
It's hard to understand untilthey're like in your arms and
then you're like, oh, it works.
Keely (16:17):
Yes, yeah, yes.
So I remember being really hungup on that and really worried
about that, but it was a goodpregnancy, it was pretty, it was
pretty uneventful.
Angela (16:30):
Did you do like any testing like throughout the
pregnancy?
Keely (16:34):
I did do.
I did a 20 week anatomy scanand I believe that's the only
testing that I did and during Ibelieve in that scan it showed
that like my placenta was tooclose to my cervix, so I did
have, like at 36 or 38 weeks, ofrepeat scan to make sure that
(16:55):
my placenta had moved.
But other than that we didn'thave any testing or lab work or
anything like that any testingor lab work or anything like
that?
What were the kind of finalweeks and then days leading up
to when your labor startedlooking like, I mean, you know,
impatient, ready to meet my baby, ready to be done, but also
(17:20):
like a lot of that anxiety about, like, how am I going to love
this baby?
Like I love my daughter and Iwas excited because with my
daughter, we had found out thegender before she was born and
with our second pregnancy wedidn't find out the gender.
So I was excited.
(17:41):
So I was excited, I was excitedfor the surprise of that and my
(18:03):
brother-in-law had been livingwith us for over a year and I
was excited that he was going tobe moving out.
Not because I don't like him oranything, but it's just nice to
have your own space.
So I was excited to likefinally put our nursery together
.
That like really didn't cometogether until the, you know,
maybe a week before I went intolabor.
So I remember being reallyexcited to like be able to get
into that room and paint and putin the little things that I had
scavenged.
(18:23):
We were pretty poor at the time, both in college, you know,
working and going to school.
So, like some of the thriftstore stuff that I had had had
Like repainted or whatever, Iwas excited to get in there and
(18:44):
we painted my, my, because ourlittle, our daughter, was still
in her crib.
So my parents gave me mybrother's old crib I don't know
why they still had it, you knowseven years later or eight years
later, but they gave us hiscrib.
So I got to paint that and thatwas kind of sentimental because
(19:04):
I always I always say he waslike my first baby.
So we painted his crib and justwas excited and anxious to meet
the baby.
Angela (19:19):
Awesome.
So how did your labor start?
Awesome?
Keely (19:24):
So how did your labor start?
I woke up in the middle of thenight, probably like four in the
morning, and was havingcontractions and I just kind of
just kind of laid there andrested.
And then my husband woke up acouple of hours later for work
(19:46):
Nurses, you know, you have earlyshifts.
So he got up and I told himlike I'm having contractions and
he was like, oh, should I stayhome?
And I was like no, no, go towork.
I you know this will probablybe a while, and we had wanted to
do like one of those bellycasts.
So before he went to work wedid the belly cast, just in case
(20:09):
, and then I like went back tobed and set him off to work and
things just kind of progressedfrom there.
He didn't end up being able tostay at work very long before he
needed to come back home, butit was mainly just me and my
baby for probably the first half.
(20:30):
And then my husband came homeand I was in touch with our
midwife and just kind of likeyou don't need to come yet, you
don't need to come yet.
And I guess at some point sheheard me have a contraction and
she was like, well, I'm justgoing to come by and check on
you guys.
And she came and she ended upstaying and my baby was born
(20:51):
maybe an hour after she gotthere, so it was pretty quick.
That's awesome.
Angela (20:57):
Yeah.
Keely (20:59):
So I'm glad I'm I'm.
I was definitely not in theheadspace to have an unassisted
birth at that point, so I'm gladI'm.
I was definitely not in theheadspace to have an unassisted
birth at that point, so I'm gladthat she came when she came and
(21:21):
it it was, it was a.
It was a really good birth, youknow, like it just it went
really well.
I didn't have any tearing I wasa little bit nervous about that
because I tore with my firstand it just it was.
We ended up having a little boy.
So we were excited we had a boyand a girl.
I was able to like pee rightafterwards without hurting,
which, with my tear the firsttime, was like horrific.
(21:45):
So I was like so pumped that Icould pee and it didn't hurt and
I like got to shower and justlike get in my own bed and nurse
my baby and it was, it was justreally perfect.
Angela (21:59):
That sounds beautiful.
So how did you find out?
You're pregnant for the thirdtime, so after.
Keely (22:09):
So our first two are pretty close.
They're like 18 months apartand that was pretty wild,
especially as, like at thispoint I think I was, I think I
was 23 when he was born, sowe're still pretty young and we
have these two little babies,and you know, trying to trying
(22:31):
to finish school and working,and it was just pretty.
It was pretty wild, like theywere both pretty easygoing
babies too, but it was like itwas a lot having the two of them
so close in age and we kind offigured we were done, we had a
boy and a girl, and we just kindof we just kind of figured we
(22:57):
were done.
And probably around the time myson was two, I was like, oh,
actually, I definitely am notdone.
And my husband was like, no, no, we're totally done.
And we kind of went back andforth about it for a while and
finally I was like, well, can wejust try one time, please,
(23:19):
please, just one time.
And so we tried one time and Igot pregnant and so that
pregnancy was just totallydifferent than my first two
really, which were pretty normalpregnancies.
I pretty immediately realizedthat I was like really sick and
(23:45):
I was diagnosed with anautoimmune disease.
Whenever I was like six orseven weeks along, I was
diagnosed with Graves, which islike an autoimmune thyroid
condition, and it was just, itwas pretty miserable.
And it was just, it was prettymiserable.
It was affecting my heart, itwas just like it just was.
(24:11):
It just made everything reallycomplicated.
I risked out of a home birthlike immediately, which was like
pretty hard to stomach, and soI had OB care through the whole
pregnancy and high risk care.
Through the whole pregnancy Iwas seeing a cardiologist, an
endocrinologist it was like afull-time job, practically going
(24:31):
to all the appointments.
And then at some point in thethird trimester I mean the whole
pregnancy they were telling melike there was a lot of
encouragement at the beginningto terminate the pregnancy,
which just wasn't an option forme, and then, just through the
whole pregnancy, just constantbombardment about like
(24:52):
everything that's probably goingto go wrong.
You know you're probably goingto get preeclampsia, you know
you could have a stroke, likejust it was just constant.
You know something's probablywrong with the baby.
It just just really prettyconstant.
Looking back, I'm like that'sso harassing, so much harassment
(25:12):
, pretty constant harassmentfrom the high risk, the
perinatologists and all of thatand I was probably a problem
patient because I just nevergave up on my home birth.
I was like, but if this getsbetter I can have a home birth
right.
And they were like, no, so Idon't know.
(25:36):
At some point in the thirdtrimester they diagnosed my baby
with intrauterine growthrestriction, when she was only
like in the one percent, twopercent first or second
percentile for, like hergestational age.
So she was really really tinyand I guess there were some
issues with the placental bloodflow, I don't know.
(26:00):
So there was a lot of talkabout a C-section between 34 and
36 weeks.
So they were doing ultrasoundslike two to three times a week,
biophysical profiles and thengrowth scans like every two
(26:21):
weeks to like track, to makesure she was growing at all.
And so she did.
She did grow, she grew enough.
She grew enough that I didn'thave to have like an early
C-section or anything.
They let me go to 39 weeks,which, generally speaking, my
babies don't come early.
(26:42):
So like there was just no way Iwas going to go into labor by
39 weeks.
And they induced me at 39 weeksand I just I remember like
walking into the labor anddelivery room and just like
breaking down crying becauselike I, that's just like was not
what I wanted, wanted, and I'mpretty sure they all thought I
(27:05):
was like just absolutely insane.
But I was like get all thisstuff out of here, like I don't
want this baby warmer in here,and I and they were pretty much
like too bad, like the babywarmer has to stay, and I like
gave them like this huge list ofthings that I, you know, didn't
(27:27):
want and pretty much, prettymuch it just I mean, once you
walk in and sign the admissiondocuments, I mean you really are
just signing away like you'reyou know, any like autonomy that
you have, like it pretty muchis what they say it's going to
(27:47):
be.
So I was induced and probablythe first like eight hours
weren't that bad and they, youknow they started with cytotec,
cytotec and a few hours afterthat they like, because I wasn't
dilated, like at all, like Iwas, like you know, fingertip
(28:09):
dilated it's my third baby, Likethat's probably just how my
cervix is so they shoved thecytotec up there.
A couple of hours later they'reable to do the Foley balloon,
which wasn't super comfortable,but I was like, okay, I can do
this, not a big deal.
And I guess they were hopingthat like contractions would
(28:29):
just start on their own at thatpoint, but they didn't.
So they started the Pitocin,which was absolutely horrific.
So at this point I've had twonatural births.
Like I know what contractionsare Like, I'm not super worried
about like being able to handlethe pain and I'm still planning
on having like a natural vaginalhospital birth.
(28:54):
And the Pitocin was just likeout of this world, like it's
just not, it's like transitioncontractions from the start.
And so they have me on thePitocin and they you know they
keep cranking it up.
When they started the Pitocin,between the cytotec and the
(29:15):
balloon, I dilated to fourcentimeters but I wasn't having
contractions.
Like I pretty much had mycervix manually forced to four
centimeters and it wasn't.
I wasn't having contractions.
I pretty much had my cervixmanually forced to four
centimeters and I wasn't havingcontractions.
So then I'm on the Pitocin andthey're checking you pretty
often and I'm making no progress.
I'm staying right at fourcentimeters.
(29:36):
They keep cranking the Pitocinup.
They won't let me get in thewater because they can't.
The monitors aren't picking upthe baby's heart rate well in
the water.
So I'm walking around.
We need you to hold.
Still we are not getting goodreadings on the baby, like so,
pretty much I end up stuck inthe bed flat on my back with
(29:59):
like these, like horrifictransition contractions and like
I can't.
I really can't even movebecause if I start moving around
the monitors aren't workingright and I do that for about 12
hours and make zero progressand I was just like I can't do
(30:24):
this anymore and so I ended upwith an epidural which I was
like super, super ashamed of.
I was like just so down onmyself about that.
I like I had a really, reallyhard time coming to terms with
that postpartum.
But I get an epidural and I'mable to go to sleep and they're
able to crank the pitocin upeven higher and not like at that
(30:47):
point I'm just like totallydissociated, right, like I'm
just like okay, like I just amnot gonna be here anymore.
And after a couple of hours oflike really cranking up the
pitocin, I still haven't madeany progress at all and the baby
is starting to not tolerate it.
So they tell me they're goingto break my water and put an
(31:12):
internal monitor inside myuterus, on the baby to get a
more accurate reading so theycan really crank up the Pitocin
and they were like but thebaby's already not really
tolerating it, well, so you'reprobably going to have a
C-section.
And I was like to me that wasjust like the absolute worst
case scenario and I you know,but it was just like, okay, I
(31:35):
mean, at that point I was just,like I said, dissociated and
resigned to my fate and was justkind of like, whatever you have
to do, I guess, and the midwifewalked out and literally as
soon as she had walked out fromtelling me that, my water broke
and the nurse came in and I wasat a 10.
So I was able to, I was able tohave my baby, like I didn't
(32:01):
have to have a C-section, I wasable to have her vaginally.
But it's like there's all thesestrangers that come pouring in
whenever it's time to push.
And like, literally fiveminutes ago, I just was told I
was four centimeters andprobably having a C-section.
And now my room has like six orseven people in it and I'm
being like told you need to pushright now.
(32:22):
And I was like I'm not, I'm notready to push right now, like
I'm not ready yet.
I had wanted my mom to be thereand I had sent her home.
It's like seven in the morningnow I sent her home for the
night and I was you know, I'mjust I'm not ready and it was
pretty much like too bad.
And I can remember there waslike a nurse's assistant and
(32:45):
somebody else standing behind myhead and they're like having
like a little workplace, likeconflict bickering thing going
on and I'm just like what, likewhat is going on here?
Like what alternate reality amI in right now?
And like I don't know.
The first two times like Icaught my own baby and like
(33:07):
pulled them up to myself, likethe the midwife didn't even ask,
like called my husband downthere and was like come catch
the baby, and so which?
Like maybe some women likedon't care and want their
husband to catch the baby orwhatever, but like didn't even
ask and like I'm too out of itto like even comprehend.
(33:29):
And then there's like a babythat and like my poor husband,
you know he whatever, he didn'tknow he puts the baby on me,
like backwards, like facing awayfrom me, like so he puts the
baby on my stomach facing him,and she has a super short cord
(33:50):
and so I can't pull her anyhigher and like I can't really
twist her.
So it's like probably 10minutes before I like even get
to see my baby's face becauseher cord short and she's turned
away from me, and it was likethey they knew I wanted delayed
cord clamping and like wanted towait until the placenta came
(34:14):
out to cut the cord.
Um, but they were like, uh,it's been you know however many
minutes five minutes and theplacenta is not out yet.
So we have to cut the cord.
So my husband cut the cord,whatever.
I finally got to like actuallyhold my baby.
And another thing like I did notwant the baby like wiped off or
washed or anything like that.
(34:36):
And they started like hoveringand like being like the baby's
not maintaining temperature.
So they ended up taking my babyand like washing her off and
like putting her in the warmer,which I yeah, as you can
remember, I was really opposedto the warmer.
(34:58):
But like at this point it'slike what can I do?
They're telling me to eitherlet them do this or they're
going to take my baby to theNICU.
So then my baby's like in thewarmer, being rubbed and, you
know, washed and harassed bystrangers, and I'm like just
across the room watching, youknow, and then it was just the
whole time.
It was always something else.
(35:18):
Well, now her blood sugar is alittle low.
If her blood sugar doesn't goup, we're going to have to take
her to the NICU.
It's like, well, you just tookher from me to go spend 15
minutes in the warmer.
I haven't even got to nurse heryet, of course her blood sugar
is low, just leave us alone.
And then I had the baby and Iwanted to go home.
(35:39):
I was like, okay, we're here,she's fine, we're going to go
home now.
And then it's like, well, youcan't go home, you can leave
against medical advice.
But if you leave againstmedical advice, they'll be like
stuff filed with CYFD for youtaking the baby and your
insurance won't pay for anything.
(35:59):
So then it's like I'm heldhostage in the hospital with my
baby, for you know, they said ithad to be 24 hours after the
birth, but you know, at 7 or 8am the next day there's nobody
there who's like ready todischarge us.
So then it's like three or fourin the afternoon the next day
before we finally get to go home.
(36:19):
And so I had a really, really,really rough postpartum, a lot
of postpartum depression andanxiety and just was really
unhappy for a while.
I mean, even now it's not superpleasant to talk about and yeah
, it was just a really, reallyhorrible experience.
(36:41):
And the sad thing is I think Iprobably had a better experience
than a lot of women get in thehospital.
Angela (36:49):
Yeah, what were your thoughts like around induction
at that time?
Keely (36:54):
I feel like they, they like kind of spent the whole
pregnancy Like I don't know knowwhat the right word is, telling
me these stories aboutsomething's wrong with you,
something's wrong with the baby.
This is a really dangerouspregnancy.
It was just constantindoctrination about the risks
(37:21):
of what I was dealing with andjust like constant reminders
that something's probably wrongwith the baby.
You know, and at one point wedid consent to like some like I
didn't ever do like anamniocentesis or anything like
that, but we did do some likeblood work to to rule out some
(37:42):
genetic stuff, just to see ifthat's why she was so small,
because I guess, like dadsyndrome, you could have a
really small baby.
Um, so I mean, we did do someminor genetic, you know, like
whatever they could do via bloodwork I was okay with doing,
just so we would know if therewas something like that that we
were dealing with.
(38:04):
I don't know where I was goingwith that other than like I just
feel like it was just likeindoctrination the whole time
and just like a completeteardown of, like my trust in my
body and myself.
So I didn't really feel like bythe time we got to 39 weeks,
that I had any other choice butto do what they told me and be
induced like it's like youeither do this or your baby's
(38:28):
gonna die.
Like IUGR babies are this muchpercentage like every week that
passes after this point are somuch more likely to be born
still stillborn.
So it didn't really feel like achoice, like it just felt like
if you want your baby to be bornalive, this is what you have to
do.
Angela (38:49):
Yeah, I feel like it's a lot of like standard of care
versus like maybe there'sdifferences in each individual
and it's like these ideologieson each side that we're going to
get into, but, like thishospital side has their
ideologies and the wayeverything should be, which
fuels the extreme and the otherdirections too, and it's like
(39:11):
there should be a middle ground.
When did you find out you werepregnant for the fourth time?
Keely (39:17):
So we have a pretty big age gap between our third and
our fourth.
After that experience, like atthe beginning of my pregnancy,
there was like a lot ofencouragement to terminate and
also like a lot of like warningslike don't ever do this again,
and also like a lot of likewarnings like don't ever do this
(39:39):
again, which obviously I'veheeded really well.
So after that experience, likeI don't know, my husband had a
vasectomy scheduled for I don'tknow, like her daughter was
maybe eight weeks old, and hedidn't go.
He was like I just I don't knowabout that.
(40:01):
So I guess that's kind of theyou know the opening for maybe
we'll have more.
He, you know, didn't go get hisvasectomy.
So I had an IUD put in at mysix-week postpartum appointment
and at that point like just waslike really trying to—I had a
(40:24):
pretty severe postpartum relapseof my autoimmune disease and so
I was just trying to findanswers and find healing outside
of the medical system andoutside of the medical model.
Because after that whole birthexperience I just lost all faith
(40:57):
in Western medicine and juststarted to look for, just
started to look for somethingelse and that's kind of started,
like I mean I would definitelysay, a journey that I'm still on
, just like health and wellnessand well-being, like outside of
traditional medicine.
So that was kind of a long road.
When my daughter was about ayear old, I knew that I wanted
to have another baby.
But I definitely wasn't in aplace health-wise yet to have
(41:23):
another baby think is prettycrazy, especially like a nursing
mom.
But I did some pretty just somepretty intense like healing
things.
I did some pretty intensefasting, like even dry fasting
for days at a time which I thinklike really let like a lot of
(41:48):
healing happen internally.
I did a bunch of differentdietary protocol things and I
was able to get off themedication that I was on for my
autoimmune disease and not havea relapse.
So I was like in remission andtook out my IUD, which in
(42:14):
hindsight I think caused a lotof problems.
I had the copper IUD and Ithink that that really affected
my fertility.
I really struggled to getpregnant with our fourth baby.
Uh, we, I probably.
I mean the first, our firstbaby was like an accidental
(42:36):
surprise, and then our second,two, I mean we got pregnant
immediately pretty much.
So our first three we conceivedlike with zero effort and it
took from the time that we likeactively started trying till I
got pregnant.
It took over a year and a half,which was pretty discouraging.
(42:58):
That's like such a hard thingto deal with, like really
wanting a baby and not beingable to get pregnant.
So that was like really hard.
We finally got pregnant whenour youngest was almost four.
By the time.
I got pregnant with our fourthand I just called up the same
(43:19):
old midwife that I had had myhome births with before.
So at this point it's beenquite a while since I've talked
to her, even longer since I'vehad a birth with her, and a lot
has happened.
This is like right during COVID, it's the end of 2020 when I
(43:39):
get pregnant.
We had spent pretty much thewhole time between when I we
moved into an RV, when my thirdbaby like the horrific hospital
birth baby was three months old,we moved into an RV and started
traveling full time.
And when I got pregnant withour fourth baby, we had like got
(44:03):
that out of our system a littlebit and had just bought a house
back in the town where we hadbeen living before, so we'd been
traveling full-time for threeand a half years.
It felt like I don't know.
It just felt like we weretotally different people in a
different family at that pointand I'd really made as much
(44:28):
peace as I could with my lastbirth and knew that getting
pregnant again, my midwife mightnot be able to take care of me.
I might have to have anotherhospital birth and I was not
happy about that per se.
But I at least knew what I wasgetting into from the start.
(44:49):
But my autoimmune disease waslike under control and I was
able to have a midwife, and soit was great, super, super
uneventful pregnancy.
I had my daughter on her duedate.
She was born in call, which wasreally cool and just like a
(45:12):
really, really, really usefulpregnancy.
I can remember postpartum beingsuch a shock because I had been
so comfortable.
I mean my kids were older, likeI did still have like a four
and a half year old or whatever,but four and a half I mean
that's not a baby anymore.
Like you're sleeping throughthe night every night and like
everybody can get their ownsnacks and like wipe their own
butts and you're not through thenight every night, and like
(45:32):
everybody can get their ownsnacks and like wipe their own
butts and you're not taking astroller anywhere.
So postpartum like kind of hitme like a bus.
I was like whoa, I forgot whatall this was like, even up until
40 weeks pregnant, like I wassleeping through the night.
That baby was positioned justright, like I didn't have to get
(45:54):
up to pee or anything.
So going from that at 40 weekspregnant to a newborn was like
whoa, this is so hard.
Angela (46:05):
Were you able to catch this baby?
Yes, beautiful.
How were things looking as yougot pregnant with your fifth
baby?
Keely (46:13):
beautiful, how were things looking as you got
pregnant with your fifth baby.
So my fifth baby was another,like accidental surprise, and I
had a really hard time likecoming to terms with the fact
that we were going to have fivekids, like whoa.
So the pregnancy was kind ofemotionally hard coming to terms
with that and like feelingguilty, like not that I
(46:37):
considered termination, but justlike I felt so guilty for not
wanting, like not being 100%,like so pumped and like wanting
it and I'd never experiencedthat before, experienced that
(46:58):
before.
So the pregnancy itself was alot harder, emotionally and then
also physically.
All my babies except for myhospital baby who was barely
five pounds, were all like sevenpounds, like right around seven
pounds, seven pounds, whateverounces, and my fifth baby was
over nine pounds.
So I think that's probably why,like, the third trimester was
(47:19):
so much harder, so much pelvicpressure, like I had a baby that
was, you know, two poundsheavier in there but his birth
was really precipitous.
My fourth baby, my labor wasabout three hours and my fifth,
my labor was about an hour and ahalf.
Angela (47:39):
Did you have the same?
Keely (47:39):
midwives.
I did have the same midwife andshe didn't make it to the birth
.
So I guess that's kind of likewhen I had this like mental
shift to where I was like, ohwhy, my husband was like do we
still have to pay her?
Like, yeah, I'm pretty sure westill have to pay her, but yeah,
(48:05):
she missed the birth and yeah,that was like kind of another
turning point where it was likewhy are we paying somebody all
this money?
We obviously can do it alone.
What do you kind of do as anurse?
Nothing like that.
(48:36):
We've both done a whole lot ofother stuff, but that I mean
just from almost the beginningof my nursing career.
I graduated from nursing schoolwhen my daughter was two weeks
old, my first baby.
So like from the beginning Iwas kind of like I can't do that
, like that goes againsteverything I believe in about
birth.
So that's not ever been, that'snot ever been like I'm an
(48:59):
interest and that's not everbeen on my radar as something to
do as a nurse.
Angela (49:05):
Yeah, so what were your thoughts as you were thinking
about signing up for a programlike the mmi?
Keely (49:17):
so after my son was born, I like kind of like, with every
pregnancy like, um, like mypostpartum period like became a
little more sacred and like Istarted, you know, you know
wanting to do kind of like alying in sort of thing and
(49:38):
spending some weeks in bed andwas very specific about, you
know, the nutrition that Iwanted postpartum and like
herbal remedies and tincturesand stuff that I wanted on hand,
and just kind of startedsharing some of that with like
women in my community andfriends and taking, you know
(50:01):
like, instead of taking a mealor something also sometimes
doing that, but instead oftaking a meal or whatever to
most part of moms in mycommunity, taking, you know like
bone broth and some herbaltinctures and things like that.
And it just seemed like, youknow, my, my best friend got
(50:26):
pregnant when my fifth baby wasjust a couple of months old and
she was planning an unassistedbirth and had asked me to just
be there for like emotionalsupport and just to, like you
know, just have a friend and asister there and then so I was
(50:51):
there at her unassisted birthand like, after having my own
and then being like a helper atthis one, I was just like so lit
up about, like this possibilitythat like, not that we don't
need midwives, but that birth isjust it's so natural that it's
(51:16):
literally going to happenwhether there's somebody there
or not.
Like it's just, it just works.
And then, a couple of monthsafter my friend had her baby, I
was invited to another birth andI was just like whoa, like this
is happening, people want me attheir birth, like what.
And I, like I just felt like I,if that was something that I was
(51:42):
going to be doing, like if Iwas going to answer this calling
, I needed more to feelcomfortable doing it.
Doing it Like I needed notnecessarily something medical,
because at this point I ampretty anti the medical
establishment but like I needsomething.
Like I need some kind oftraining, like some kind of
(52:03):
wisdom around all of this.
That like there were some kindof emergency, I would be able to
do something right Besides like9-1-1.
Like I felt like I needed somekind of like skills, more skills
yeah, and some guidanceprobably right.
Angela (52:22):
Yeah, so when did you first hear about the free birth
society?
Keely (52:28):
so my friend who was planning her unassisted birth
like I I'm sorry, like I'm atthis place where, like I can't
even use the term free birthwithout like just feeling so
like it, just like after myexperience with them, so I have
been using the term unassistedbirth my friend who I was at her
(52:52):
birth that was in February of2024.
She had bought the free birthsociety like whatever the guide
(53:13):
to free birth or whatever andhad like shared some of that
information with me, since I wasgoing to be like her partner,
and so that was the first timethat I was exposed to it and I
wish that I had like honored myfirst reaction to like watching
some of those videos with her.
I was like really really turnedoff by both of the teachers,
really really turned off by bothof the teachers, but I valued
(53:35):
some of what they were saying.
So I I know you're using thisfor a podcast, but it's like not
my preferred mode of likeobtaining information.
I like can't.
Maybe it's just cause I have somuch going on, but like I can't
just focus if I'm justlistening right like I am more
(53:55):
of like like I have to readsomething.
Like I'm not an auditorylearner, I guess.
So I tried to like get into thepodcast and stuff and I never
really could, but I was likethat's cool, I like what they're
doing, I like that, I like theidea of.
And then, like right at thetime that I started searching
(54:17):
out like some kind ofalternative midwifery education,
they started putting out stuffabout MMI.
So what they were marking as theworld's leading sovereign
midwifery school, which is notwhat it ended up being, but it
(54:38):
definitely was not what it endedup being and I just like fell
so hard like hook line andsinker for the marketing I was
actually debating, mainly forcost reasons, between MMI and
(54:58):
Mafios program, which is justlike she doesn't do a lot of
marketing Right, and the websiteher website.
She's lovely.
Her website is a little hokey,you know, and.
Angela (55:28):
I was like oh, I don't know about this, like I don't
know.
So I ended up going with MMI,which was obviously a huge
mistake, and I way wish that Ihad gone with.
Wapio has the real wisdom.
Spoiler alert for anybodythat's listening.
What we were all kind oflooking for in MMI is inside of
Wapio's programs.
So that's hard, but you don'tknow, I fell for it too.
(55:48):
I had no clue about who Wapiowas or what her program was when
I had signed up for MMI and Iwas looking for the same thing.
So that is where we met eachother.
We were in the same pod.
When did you first start tonotice that the content was
really lacking?
Keely (56:06):
I started, I mean even from the first semester, there
would be, or like first quarteror whatever there would be weeks
that I would log in to look atthe content and I'd be like what
, there's three videos for theweek and one of them's a
10-minute meditation.
Like I'm paying this much moneyand paying thousands of dollars
(56:29):
for a 10-minute lecture and a a10 minute meditation that
somebody is reading me from abook.
So I guess, like through thatfirst, through that first
quarter, I kind of just was likenext quarter will be better.
You know, I can see why this isimportant and I really do see
(56:53):
the value in if you're wantingto serve other women, like
really knowing yourself anddealing with like your own
traumas and your own issues,right, like I 100% am behind the
idea of that.
So, almost right away to answeryour question, yeah, almost
(57:14):
right away I was kind of likeseriously.
And then, as we moved into thesecond quarter, which there's
only one quarter of this programthat's actually devoted to
midwifery, and like how couldyou possibly like cover all
aspects of midwifery in 12 weeks, like, and that's just that's
(57:39):
on me, cause I think that thatwas.
I mean, the four quarters wereadvertised as what they were
going to be.
There was a syllabus that youcould look at before before you
signed up, before you signed up,but the second quarter brought
(58:00):
like some glaring uh issues forme, like I am trained as a nurse
and even though I'm prettyanti-western medicine, I'm not
anti anti like physiology andlike how our bodies actually
work.
And this program had nophysiology like, no actual, like
(58:23):
pretty, pretty close to zeroactual physiology presented,
maybe like some very briefmention of some of the hormones
involved in birth.
No textbooks, no resources,nothing to point you to other
(58:44):
places you could learn about it.
It was just completely absent.
Angela (58:48):
Yeah, that was hard and a major letdown, for sure.
What led you to remove yourselffrom the program before it
finished?
Keely (58:58):
So, even like wrapping up the second quarter, I was still
pretty committed to stayingbecause I was like, okay, like
the business stuff, like what ifthere's something there I need?
And then so like I'm alreadyhaving these doubts and concerns
that I had when I first watchedvideos from the guide to free
(59:21):
birth, like a lot of thosethings like had stuck with me
through the program.
One of the teachers inparticular would show up to
(59:44):
class and there wouldn't be alesson plan.
It would just be like we'rejust going to chit chat for
three hours.
And I was like what?
Like that's not what I'm herefor, I'm not here for that.
But so like a lot of thosethings like kept coming up, like
it just felt like there wasn'ta plan, that people weren't
(01:00:09):
prepared.
But I really really did like andrespect and feel like our pod
mentor had a lot of knowledgeand the last time that I met
with her there just seemed likesomething was off, like yeah,
she pretty much told us that shewasn't supposed to be pointing
(01:00:34):
us towards other resources.
We were asking for moreinformation because in that pod
meeting we were supposed to betalking about the videos.
The project for that month wasto make a video talking about
physiological birth, you know,even though you've been given no
(01:00:54):
information on physiologicalbirth.
Yeah, so like there were peoplelike asking, like is there
going to be more info on this,or where do we get more
resources?
And she like was kind of like I, you know, like I'm not
supposed to be giving you, I'mthat's not what my role is
(01:01:18):
supposed to be, like I'm notsupposed to tell you that, or I
don't know her exact words, I'mnot trying to put words in her
mouth.
Angela (01:01:24):
Right, I remember that call too.
It was very strange.
And then, like immediatelyafter that, like four mentors,
they had stepped down.
Keely (01:01:34):
Yes.
So that was like a huge redflag to me that she had left and
then, like all the Reddit stuffstarted coming out.
Then students were being kickedout of the program for having
private conversations in spacesthat were outside of the school
(01:01:59):
social network and that reallyreally rubbed me the wrong way.
I was not kicked out I will saythat I left voluntarily but
that just was like a huge likethat was a really big problem to
me that they and openly on theschool network, like the school
(01:02:20):
social mighty networks page,were encouraging women within
the program to turn each otherin, and that just to me that was
just like a hard, a hard pass.
That's not, that's not what I'm.
(01:02:44):
Just I don't like that at all.
Like I feel like a big reasonthat I went with MMI was to like
build community with otherwomen and I just felt like it
was really wrong for them to betrying to get us to turn on each
other.
Angela (01:02:55):
For asking questions about like hey, are we going to
like learn about anything likekind of related to midwifery?
Keely (01:03:02):
Like we're not even we're not looking for like the actual
hands-on skills, but like we'dlike to have some information,
some resources, some, you know,guidance that we signed up for,
right, like yes, I don't thinkthat most of the questioning
that was going on was like Idon't think, and I don't think
that any of it started out aslike people wanting to leave the
(01:03:24):
program or malicious, like Ithink it was like genuine
concern and women wanting to waslike genuine concern and women
wanting to, I think, women evenwilling to wait, like you know,
like we have lifetime access,like can you use this feedback
to add to the program and we canhave the information later, or
whatever.
(01:03:45):
But it was just not there was.
They did not accept thefeedback.
And then the other reallyreally huge red flag for me,
where I was just like I can't, Ican't stay, was whenever one of
the one of our classmates Idon't know her personally never
talked to her Her baby diedduring her free birth.
(01:04:06):
And even after we had just goneover and talked about, like
infant loss and you know,stillbirths and things like that
and like how you needed to comeup beside these mothers in
these hard times, even aftergoing over all of that, there
was no outreach from them, likethere was no encouragement from
(01:04:32):
them to like come alongside thiswoman, like in our immediate
space.
Angela (01:04:38):
Yeah, so that was disturbing.
Yeah, and that's about the timewhen it wasn't just you, there
was several of us that all kindof started leaving the program
right around that that time.
And what and what was it likefor you, as you were unenrolling
?
Keely (01:04:58):
So I was kind of on the fence about unenrolling, mainly
because of all the money I hadspent, and I showed up to the
last Friday call that I wouldattend.
It was at the very last Fridayof March and I was hoping to get
some clarity or some answers,hoping to hear something that
(01:05:20):
would make me feel like I hadn'tjust wasted a bunch of money
and was still in a good space.
And what I heard in that callwas pretty much the opposite of
that.
Like one of the you know thefounders of the program came on
the zoom call and pretty muchlike openly mocked all of us and
(01:05:44):
was like you can attend threedog births and open an online
midwifery school, and was justkind of like so you get what you
get, you know.
And after that I was like no,no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm leaving.
That was like the nail in thecoffin for me.
That was just like so degradingand disrespectful, like I came
(01:06:11):
here to learn from you andyou're telling and have you
attended any births?
Or just three dog births?
Like what are you saying here?
Angela (01:06:20):
Yeah, that kind of became the question that a lot
of us started asking at thattime.
We're like how many births havethey attended each like outside
of the system you know, andnobody really knows the answer
to that yeah, so I withdrew onApril 1st and it was a good
(01:06:42):
thing for me.
Keely (01:06:43):
I don't regret doing it, I don't regret, I don't regret
withdrawing.
Like there have been like a fewmoments like where I mean, like
I said, it's not regret likethat, I'm not an MMI it's just
regret that I didn't make abetter choice.
I found out that I was pregnantmaybe a week or two before I
(01:07:05):
left the program and so likeright now, you know, I spent
probably over an hour on thephone with Wapio.
She opened modules for me tolook at.
I think her program looksreally, really like what I was
looking for, but I just was notin a place where I could jump
(01:07:28):
into another program at thebeginning, a place where I could
jump into another program atthe beginning.
Angela (01:07:32):
But that's definitely on my radar you know, as my
seasons continue to change, yeah, so how has your pregnancy been
going for you so far and whatis your plan?
If you don't mind sharing, Idon't mind.
Yeah, I don't mind sharing.
Keely (01:07:47):
It's been a really hard pregnancy.
I was really really sick thefirst trimester, which I think
is really normal, and then, likeright as I was starting to feel
better, my family got whoopingcough, which has been like
absolutely horrific to deal with.
I mean, just in general it'sbeen rough, Like all of my kids
(01:08:08):
have it and that's that's hard.
I mean like we got it in Mayand we're still coughing at the
end of July and having thatpregnant has been really, really
hard.
My sixth pregnancy, my bladdercontrol isn't what it used to be
, so it's like coughing so hardI'm peeing myself, Coughing so
(01:08:30):
hard I'm throwing up.
It's been really, really rough,I don't know.
So at the beginning, likebefore I got pregnant, and then,
like in the immediate, like youknow, the immediate realization
that I was pregnant, I wasplanning a free birth, and then
just everything that happenedwith MMI, I like really really
(01:08:51):
started to doubt that.
I was like have I just beenindoctrinated by the women who
are like just out to make moneyoff of people like me who fell
for their marketing?
So it's been like a lot toprocess mentally, like a lot to
process mentally.
The midwife that I used for myother pregnancies retired and so
(01:09:24):
I like didn't have that crutchto fall back on where I probably
would have just done that.
I've interviewed a couple ofother midwives and one of them I
really clicked with.
And one of them I reallyclicked with and she um, she's
really cool.
She's an older lady.
She's attended like over 7,000births.
She's like really I mean I'venot attended births with her,
but she made it sound like she'svery hands-off and like has a
(01:09:48):
similar mindset around birth tome as I do.
I like we talked a lot aboutlike me leaving MMI and just
like a lot of the thoughts thatI had around that I felt like
being in MMI, like I felt almostlike ashamed of having
midwifery care, Like I hadn'tlike done the ultimate thing,
(01:10:15):
which was like have a free birth, and so like my births were
less than in some way.
Angela (01:10:22):
Which is not true, but it does make you feel that way,
like when you're inside of theseprograms, like don't talk about
that, like in class, or youknow.
Keely (01:10:31):
Totally so.
She was really.
She was really cool lady.
We I mean she probably spentthree or four hours with me over
several, several meetings andlike I actually offered to like
let me apprentice with her andstuff, like we really connected.
But I just didn't feel and Iwould love to do that at some
(01:10:52):
point when I'm in a differentseason but I also just didn't
feel like it was the rightchoice to have her at my birth.
So I am planning an unassistedbirth.
I haven't had any traditionalprenatal care to this point.
In traditional prenatal care tothis point, my retired midwife
(01:11:16):
did write me a referral for ananatomy scan because I did feel
like for me that felt likesomething that's relatively
non-invasive and could give me alot of information.
So I did have that a couple ofweeks ago and everything looks
good and that's something I'vehad in pretty much all my
pregnancies.
So I don't have any regretsabout doing that and I'm kind of
(01:11:38):
doing I guess I'm kind of doingmy own prenatal care Me, my
husband has checked my bloodpressure a couple of times and I
guess that's the extent of myown prenatal care right.
And my best friend who I went to, her unassisted birth is going
to be coming out for a few weeks.
I don't know if she'll be herefor the actual birth or not, but
(01:12:02):
she's going to be here.
Hopefully she's here for thebirth I would love that.
But she'll be here for likethree weeks around the time I'm
supposed to have the baby andthe immediate postpartum period.
So I'm glad to have somebodyhere to like help me make help
(01:12:25):
me make all my like little brewsand tinctures and and my
husband's great at a lot ofthings but those aren't his
strongest specialties.
So I'll be glad to have herhere to help me with all of that
and just to have a friend here.
It's nice in postpartum to havethat female connection.
Angela (01:12:51):
Yeah, birth alone and do postpartum in community, for
sure.
Keely (01:12:56):
Yes, totally.
Angela (01:12:58):
As a final question if you were to give advice to
someone who's expecting, or evennew parents, what's like one of
the biggest things you mightwant to share?
Keely (01:13:06):
I feel like the biggest thing I would want to share with
somebody who was pregnant forthe first time or, you know,
even not the first time, justexpecting and wanting to do
something a little different isthat birth works and your body
works and it, you know, it wasall designed to work perfectly
(01:13:29):
without intervention.
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
Angela (01:13:34):
Well, thank you so much, keeley, for taking the time to
chat with me today and shareyour story.
Yeah, thanks for having me,angela.
Before you go, I just want toremind you I have a ton of
resources for pregnancy andbirth If you're pregnant,
whether you're a first-time momor if this is your fifth baby.
I want you to check out theshow notes, because I have some
(01:13:56):
free trainings and freedownloads that you can sign up
for, as well as the link toaccess my Labor of Love, a
comprehensive, self-paced onlinechildbirth education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
(01:14:16):
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
Students were being kicked out of the program for
having private conversations inspaces that were outside of the
school social network and thatreally, really rubbed me the
wrong way.
I was not kicked out.
I will say that I leftvoluntarily, but that, just like
(00:20):
that, was a really big problemto me.
That was a really big problemto me.
(00:42):
And openly on the schoolnetwork, the school social
Mighty Networks page, we'reencouraging women within the
program to turn each other inand to me that was just a hard
pass.
That's not what I'm.
Just I don't like that at all.
Like I feel like a big reasonthat I went with MMI was to like
build community with otherwomen and I just felt like it
was really wrong for them to betrying to get us to turn on each
other for asking questionsabout like, hey, are we going to
(01:03):
like learn about anything likekind of related to midwifery?
Angela (01:07):
Like we're not even looking for like the actual
hands on skills, but like we'dlike to have some information,
some resources.
Keely (01:13):
I don't think, and I don't think that any of it
started out as like peoplewanting to leave the program or
malicious, like I think it waslike genuine concern and women
(01:35):
wanting to.
I think women even willing towait, like you know, like we
have lifetime access, like canyou use this feedback to add to
the program and we can have theinformation later, or whatever.
But it was just not there, was.
They did not accept thefeedback.
Angela (01:57):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real-life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(02:18):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon-to-be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome to episode 123 of myMain Birth.
Today's birth story guest isKeely.
(02:40):
She and I first met around thistime last year, when we had
both signed up for the FreeBirth Society's brand new school
, which was originally marketedand sold as the MatriBirth
Midwifery Institute.
Keely is here to share allabout her beautiful birth
stories and what led her tochoose free birth herself, and
(03:02):
all about her experience insideof the matribirth midwifery
institute or mentor institute.
I don't know whatever.
I do want to say at thebeginning of all of these
episodes, though, that I verymuch support a woman's right to
birth where, how and withwhoever she chooses.
These episodes are more tohighlight the separation of the
(03:25):
beautiful idea of free birththat can be a perfectly fine
option for many women from theideology that is promoted by the
free birth society.
All right, let's do it.
Hi Keely, welcome to my MainBirth.
Hello, did you take the RBKschool, or was it just Emma?
I didn't.
Keely (03:46):
I actually had had like zero involvement with Rebirth
Society and then just was like,oh, I'm going to take the most
expensive thing they offer.
Angela (03:56):
Yeah, that's kind of how I did it too.
That's interesting.
So, to get started, would youshare a little bit about you and
your family?
So to get started, would you?
Keely (04:05):
share a little bit about you and your family.
So my name is Keely and me andmy family live in Tejeras, new
Mexico, kind of up in themountains.
It's pretty peaceful.
It's a good place to raise afamily.
Me and my husband have fivechildren.
They are 12, 11, 8, 4, 2.
And then we're actually I'mpregnant with our sixth baby
(04:28):
right now and I'm about 23 weeksalong.
We homeschool Me and my husbandare both nurses.
I am lucky enough to be able towork remotely.
For the most part, I stay homewith our kids and work remotely
when I can, which isn't all thatmuch with five kids and
homeschooling.
But yeah, so that's kind of alittle bit about us.
Angela (04:53):
Awesome.
Now would you share a littlebit about what your views were
on birth, like growing up andlike maybe some stories that you
heard like about birth when youwere younger.
Keely (05:06):
I mean, growing up I didn't really know that there
was any way to give birthbesides like going to the
hospital, like that's what youdo, I mean.
Okay, I kind of scratched thatbecause I always knew my mom was
born at home, but it was alwayskind of like she was born like
(05:28):
at home, in a trailer, like inthe backwoods of Alabama, and it
was kind of like always likealmost a joke, like ha ha, like
you know you were, you know, youknow, I don't know it was.
It wasn't something that waslike taken seriously or it was
like a real option.
It was.
It wasn't something that waslike taken seriously or was like
a real option.
It was just like, oh gosh, howyou know how backwards were you
(05:49):
guys that you were born at homein a trailer, right.
So I guess, like I always kindof knew in the back of my mind
that that had happened, but itwasn't like uh, like something
that like that was to berepeated, right, like birth
happened in a hospital.
All of me and my brothers wereborn in the hospital.
Probably my first real encounterwith birth was when I was 14,
(06:12):
my mom had a baby and I wassuper excited to get to go with
her and I got to hold her legwhenever she was pushing.
And I got to see my littlebrother come into the world and
he was my mom's fifth baby andwe got to the hospital and she
was 10 centimeters dilated andhad him like in an exam room and
(06:34):
the whole time she was liketelling them to just like leave
him there.
She wanted her epidural becauseshe'd had an epidural her first
four births.
So like seeing my mom have himand really up until it was time
to push, like be so calm andlike it just didn't seem to
(06:55):
phase her at all really untillike the pushing and whenever
she found out she wasn'tactually getting methadone and
she was like, oh, no, no.
But I think that was reallyimpactful for me as as a young
teenager to see my mom have anatural birth.
And I think when I got pregnantwith my own daughter I was
(07:15):
pretty young, I was 21.
I was pretty adamant that Iwanted to have a natural birth
in the hospital but the OB I wasseeing pretty much laughed in
my face about that and was like,yeah, we'll see about that when
the time actually comes.
So what was your pregnancy likewith her?
I saw a traditional OB untilabout maybe a little over the
(07:36):
halfway point, maybe like 25, 27weeks, and that's whenever we
had the conversation about how Idid not want an epidural and
she literally laughed in my faceand was like, well, we'll see,
you know, and I was like, yeah,we will see.
And I literally never went backto her and I, that's like kind
(07:57):
of when I found home birthreally, and um, so I I was in my
third trimester by the time Ifound a home birth midwife and
like officially switched overbut I did end up having I didn't
have an epidural to have mybaby at home and it was.
(08:18):
It was.
I mean, I think for most women,first births are pretty intense.
Like definitely, I feel likeyou definitely get pushed to the
limits for I mean just ofeverything, like mentally,
physically, emotionally.
I mean it's just such a, it'ssuch a journey and I think that
(08:39):
that's really, at least for me,has been like a really important
part of like my motherhood andmy identity as a mom is like
that first, that first birth,and just like the challenge that
it was and like I did it wow,that's amazing.
Angela (08:57):
So how was your actual like birth experience?
I mean it was hard.
Keely (09:01):
It wasn't.
It wasn't super long, it was.
It was, I mean it hard, but Idon't think it was any harder
than any other first time momhaving a baby at home.
You know, like it's hard workand I was totally caught off
guard by the pain.
I remember like people beinglike, oh, it's so painful, it's
so painful, and I guess I justwas like, okay, whatever, like
(09:23):
people are so dramatic, I haveperiod cramps, like it can't be
that much worse than that and itwas so much worse than that.
Um, and you know, maybe it'sgood that I didn't have any, uh,
like real understanding of howintense it would be before it
actually happened.
You know, maybe there's areason for that, but, um, it was
(09:47):
good.
I mean, there were nocomplications.
Uh, I was in like active, hardlabor for about 12 hours and, uh
, I was just so relieved to bedone.
I was like, yay, I'm done.
And it probably took a coupleof weeks to like, really like
the magnitude of the wholeexperience to really hit me.
(10:09):
But, like in the immediateaftermath, I just remember being
so glad it was over.
Angela (10:15):
Did you have a midwife with you?
Keely (10:18):
I did.
Yeah, I had, um, I had twomidwives there.
They worked together but theywere super hands-off.
I know that they checked me afew times, but mainly that's
because I was asking.
It wasn't like it was forced onme, it was just me being
(10:40):
impatient and being like, okay,can I push yet Tell me, tell me
if I'm almost done.
And then I I'm assuming I don'tactually remember, but I do
assume that they probably used aDoppler a few times during
active labor, but other thanthat, I mean they didn't, I mean
they didn't really do anything.
They were just there, um, youknow, like all the times that I
(11:04):
kept being like I can't do this,I can't do this, you know to
remind me that, like, but you'redoing it.
Angela (11:11):
Exactly.
That's just really late, that's.
That's so helpful, you know so.
So you had a good experiencethen for your first.
How was your postpartum?
Keely (11:23):
How was your postpartum?
My postpartum was reallydifficult and a lot of that, I
think, was just identityshifting and being a young mom
and me and my husband we didn'tknow anybody else our age who
(11:43):
had a baby or any of our friendswho had a baby, you know.
So it was like it was a bigshift to go from, like being in
college and all of our friendslike you know, doing the college
thing, and it's like all of asudden we have a baby and we're
not doing that.
And then also and I mean, youdon't you love it and you learn,
I guess we um, my husband wasso excited and so proud and like
(12:06):
literally invited like everyperson we knew, to our house,
like within the first severaldays of our daughter being born,
and I was like just physicallywrecked In hindsight, like that
was horrible to like have allthese people at my house right
after I just like went throughthis like huge physical,
(12:30):
emotional, like shift and it waslike everybody we knew got to
witness it and that, you knowthat was definitely not repeated
, but that was that madepostpartum pretty difficult.
(12:50):
And then we had family that cameand stayed with us for maybe a
week and a half after she wasborn and again, that was
something that we definitelyhave not repeated because it was
just it.
Just for me personally I'm apretty private person that was
just really uncomfortable andmaybe it was my in-laws who came
and stayed with us.
(13:10):
And physically postpartum, Idid have a tear that was
stitched and caused quite a bitof pain in the initial 48 hours
(13:35):
post-birth, but other than that,everything was pretty seamless
physically was, everything waspretty seamless physically so
when did you find out you werepregnant with your second?
well, pretty, I said it probablytook a couple of weeks to for
everything to settle and for,like I don't know, I mean it
(14:00):
took more than a couple of weeksfor everything to settle right,
it's a huge, especially thefirst time.
It's such a huge, just such ahuge shift like from maiden to
mother, you know, and I thinkthat hit me really hard, being
so young but also right away,like I just fell in love with
being a mom.
I fell in love with my baby andI knew I wanted another one,
(14:23):
like soon, fell in love with mybaby and I knew I wanted another
one, like soon.
So we got pregnant.
Our first was I think she waseight months old whenever I got
pregnant with my second.
How did you find out?
Um, I am not a daytime napperlike at all.
(14:44):
I don't like to sleep duringthe day.
I get super grumpy when I wakeup and I was like needing a nap
every day and I was like youknow what, I'm pretty sure I'm
pregnant.
And so we took a test and I waspregnant.
Angela (15:01):
So what were your thoughts in choosing your care
then the second time around?
So what were your thoughts inchoosing your care then the
second time around.
Keely (15:06):
The second time around, I like, went straight to the
midwives who had helped me withour first baby and I had
midwifery care just from thebeginning of that pregnancy.
Angela (15:21):
So how were you feeling during that pregnancy?
Keely (15:28):
That was probably like my easiest pregnancy well, I mean,
pregnancy is always hard, butthat was probably like it was.
It was a good experience.
Like I felt good, I feltexcited, like I can remember,
like some big emotions around,like my baby her name's Nat not
(15:49):
being like the center of ourworld anymore, like you really
just can't comprehend that.
Like the love multiplies, itdoesn't divide.
Angela (16:10):
Right, it is.
It's hard to understand untilthey're like in your arms and
then you're like, oh, it works.
Keely (16:17):
Yes, yeah, yes.
So I remember being really hungup on that and really worried
about that, but it was a goodpregnancy, it was pretty, it was
pretty uneventful.
Angela (16:30):
Did you do like any testing like throughout the
pregnancy?
Keely (16:34):
I did do.
I did a 20 week anatomy scanand I believe that's the only
testing that I did and during Ibelieve in that scan it showed
that like my placenta was tooclose to my cervix, so I did
have, like at 36 or 38 weeks, ofrepeat scan to make sure that
(16:55):
my placenta had moved.
But other than that we didn'thave any testing or lab work or
anything like that any testingor lab work or anything like
that?
What were the kind of finalweeks and then days leading up
to when your labor startedlooking like, I mean, you know,
impatient, ready to meet my baby, ready to be done, but also
(17:20):
like a lot of that anxiety about, like, how am I going to love
this baby?
Like I love my daughter and Iwas excited because with my
daughter, we had found out thegender before she was born and
with our second pregnancy wedidn't find out the gender.
So I was excited.
(17:41):
So I was excited, I was excitedfor the surprise of that and my
(18:03):
brother-in-law had been livingwith us for over a year and I
was excited that he was going tobe moving out.
Not because I don't like him oranything, but it's just nice to
have your own space.
So I was excited to likefinally put our nursery together
.
That like really didn't cometogether until the, you know,
maybe a week before I went intolabor.
So I remember being reallyexcited to like be able to get
into that room and paint and putin the little things that I had
scavenged.
(18:23):
We were pretty poor at the time, both in college, you know,
working and going to school.
So, like some of the thriftstore stuff that I had had had
Like repainted or whatever, Iwas excited to get in there and
(18:44):
we painted my, my, because ourlittle, our daughter, was still
in her crib.
So my parents gave me mybrother's old crib I don't know
why they still had it, you knowseven years later or eight years
later, but they gave us hiscrib.
So I got to paint that and thatwas kind of sentimental because
(19:04):
I always I always say he waslike my first baby.
So we painted his crib and justwas excited and anxious to meet
the baby.
Angela (19:19):
Awesome.
So how did your labor start?
Awesome?
Keely (19:24):
So how did your labor start?
I woke up in the middle of thenight, probably like four in the
morning, and was havingcontractions and I just kind of
just kind of laid there andrested.
And then my husband woke up acouple of hours later for work
(19:46):
Nurses, you know, you have earlyshifts.
So he got up and I told himlike I'm having contractions and
he was like, oh, should I stayhome?
And I was like no, no, go towork.
I you know this will probablybe a while, and we had wanted to
do like one of those bellycasts.
So before he went to work wedid the belly cast, just in case
(20:09):
, and then I like went back tobed and set him off to work and
things just kind of progressedfrom there.
He didn't end up being able tostay at work very long before he
needed to come back home, butit was mainly just me and my
baby for probably the first half.
(20:30):
And then my husband came homeand I was in touch with our
midwife and just kind of likeyou don't need to come yet, you
don't need to come yet.
And I guess at some point sheheard me have a contraction and
she was like, well, I'm justgoing to come by and check on
you guys.
And she came and she ended upstaying and my baby was born
(20:51):
maybe an hour after she gotthere, so it was pretty quick.
That's awesome.
Angela (20:57):
Yeah.
Keely (20:59):
So I'm glad I'm I'm.
I was definitely not in theheadspace to have an unassisted
birth at that point, so I'm gladI'm.
I was definitely not in theheadspace to have an unassisted
birth at that point, so I'm gladthat she came when she came and
(21:21):
it it was, it was a.
It was a really good birth, youknow, like it just it went
really well.
I didn't have any tearing I wasa little bit nervous about that
because I tore with my firstand it just it was.
We ended up having a little boy.
So we were excited we had a boyand a girl.
I was able to like pee rightafterwards without hurting,
which, with my tear the firsttime, was like horrific.
(21:45):
So I was like so pumped that Icould pee and it didn't hurt and
I like got to shower and justlike get in my own bed and nurse
my baby and it was, it was justreally perfect.
Angela (21:59):
That sounds beautiful.
So how did you find out?
You're pregnant for the thirdtime, so after.
Keely (22:09):
So our first two are pretty close.
They're like 18 months apartand that was pretty wild,
especially as, like at thispoint I think I was, I think I
was 23 when he was born, sowe're still pretty young and we
have these two little babies,and you know, trying to trying
(22:31):
to finish school and working,and it was just pretty.
It was pretty wild, like theywere both pretty easygoing
babies too, but it was like itwas a lot having the two of them
so close in age and we kind offigured we were done, we had a
boy and a girl, and we just kindof we just kind of figured we
(22:57):
were done.
And probably around the time myson was two, I was like, oh,
actually, I definitely am notdone.
And my husband was like, no, no, we're totally done.
And we kind of went back andforth about it for a while and
finally I was like, well, can wejust try one time, please,
(23:19):
please, just one time.
And so we tried one time and Igot pregnant and so that
pregnancy was just totallydifferent than my first two
really, which were pretty normalpregnancies.
I pretty immediately realizedthat I was like really sick and
(23:45):
I was diagnosed with anautoimmune disease.
Whenever I was like six orseven weeks along, I was
diagnosed with Graves, which islike an autoimmune thyroid
condition, and it was just, itwas pretty miserable.
And it was just, it was prettymiserable.
It was affecting my heart, itwas just like it just was.
(24:11):
It just made everything reallycomplicated.
I risked out of a home birthlike immediately, which was like
pretty hard to stomach, and soI had OB care through the whole
pregnancy and high risk care.
Through the whole pregnancy Iwas seeing a cardiologist, an
endocrinologist it was like afull-time job, practically going
(24:31):
to all the appointments.
And then at some point in thethird trimester I mean the whole
pregnancy they were telling melike there was a lot of
encouragement at the beginningto terminate the pregnancy,
which just wasn't an option forme, and then, just through the
whole pregnancy, just constantbombardment about like
(24:52):
everything that's probably goingto go wrong.
You know you're probably goingto get preeclampsia, you know
you could have a stroke, likejust it was just constant.
You know something's probablywrong with the baby.
It just just really prettyconstant.
Looking back, I'm like that'sso harassing, so much harassment
(25:12):
, pretty constant harassmentfrom the high risk, the
perinatologists and all of thatand I was probably a problem
patient because I just nevergave up on my home birth.
I was like, but if this getsbetter I can have a home birth
right.
And they were like, no, so Idon't know.
(25:36):
At some point in the thirdtrimester they diagnosed my baby
with intrauterine growthrestriction, when she was only
like in the one percent, twopercent first or second
percentile for, like hergestational age.
So she was really really tinyand I guess there were some
issues with the placental bloodflow, I don't know.
(26:00):
So there was a lot of talkabout a C-section between 34 and
36 weeks.
So they were doing ultrasoundslike two to three times a week,
biophysical profiles and thengrowth scans like every two
(26:21):
weeks to like track, to makesure she was growing at all.
And so she did.
She did grow, she grew enough.
She grew enough that I didn'thave to have like an early
C-section or anything.
They let me go to 39 weeks,which, generally speaking, my
babies don't come early.
(26:42):
So like there was just no way Iwas going to go into labor by
39 weeks.
And they induced me at 39 weeksand I just I remember like
walking into the labor anddelivery room and just like
breaking down crying becauselike I, that's just like was not
what I wanted, wanted, and I'mpretty sure they all thought I
(27:05):
was like just absolutely insane.
But I was like get all thisstuff out of here, like I don't
want this baby warmer in here,and I and they were pretty much
like too bad, like the babywarmer has to stay, and I like
gave them like this huge list ofthings that I, you know, didn't
(27:27):
want and pretty much, prettymuch it just I mean, once you
walk in and sign the admissiondocuments, I mean you really are
just signing away like you'reyou know, any like autonomy that
you have, like it pretty muchis what they say it's going to
(27:47):
be.
So I was induced and probablythe first like eight hours
weren't that bad and they, youknow they started with cytotec,
cytotec and a few hours afterthat they like, because I wasn't
dilated, like at all, like Iwas, like you know, fingertip
(28:09):
dilated it's my third baby, Likethat's probably just how my
cervix is so they shoved thecytotec up there.
A couple of hours later they'reable to do the Foley balloon,
which wasn't super comfortable,but I was like, okay, I can do
this, not a big deal.
And I guess they were hopingthat like contractions would
(28:29):
just start on their own at thatpoint, but they didn't.
So they started the Pitocin,which was absolutely horrific.
So at this point I've had twonatural births.
Like I know what contractionsare Like, I'm not super worried
about like being able to handlethe pain and I'm still planning
on having like a natural vaginalhospital birth.
(28:54):
And the Pitocin was just likeout of this world, like it's
just not, it's like transitioncontractions from the start.
And so they have me on thePitocin and they you know they
keep cranking it up.
When they started the Pitocin,between the cytotec and the
(29:15):
balloon, I dilated to fourcentimeters but I wasn't having
contractions.
Like I pretty much had mycervix manually forced to four
centimeters and it wasn't.
I wasn't having contractions.
I pretty much had my cervixmanually forced to four
centimeters and I wasn't havingcontractions.
So then I'm on the Pitocin andthey're checking you pretty
often and I'm making no progress.
I'm staying right at fourcentimeters.
(29:36):
They keep cranking the Pitocinup.
They won't let me get in thewater because they can't.
The monitors aren't picking upthe baby's heart rate well in
the water.
So I'm walking around.
We need you to hold.
Still we are not getting goodreadings on the baby, like so,
pretty much I end up stuck inthe bed flat on my back with
(29:59):
like these, like horrifictransition contractions and like
I can't.
I really can't even movebecause if I start moving around
the monitors aren't workingright and I do that for about 12
hours and make zero progressand I was just like I can't do
(30:24):
this anymore and so I ended upwith an epidural which I was
like super, super ashamed of.
I was like just so down onmyself about that.
I like I had a really, reallyhard time coming to terms with
that postpartum.
But I get an epidural and I'mable to go to sleep and they're
able to crank the pitocin upeven higher and not like at that
(30:47):
point I'm just like totallydissociated, right, like I'm
just like okay, like I just amnot gonna be here anymore.
And after a couple of hours oflike really cranking up the
pitocin, I still haven't madeany progress at all and the baby
is starting to not tolerate it.
So they tell me they're goingto break my water and put an
(31:12):
internal monitor inside myuterus, on the baby to get a
more accurate reading so theycan really crank up the Pitocin
and they were like but thebaby's already not really
tolerating it, well, so you'reprobably going to have a
C-section.
And I was like to me that wasjust like the absolute worst
case scenario and I you know,but it was just like, okay, I
(31:35):
mean, at that point I was just,like I said, dissociated and
resigned to my fate and was justkind of like, whatever you have
to do, I guess, and the midwifewalked out and literally as
soon as she had walked out fromtelling me that, my water broke
and the nurse came in and I wasat a 10.
So I was able to, I was able tohave my baby, like I didn't
(32:01):
have to have a C-section, I wasable to have her vaginally.
But it's like there's all thesestrangers that come pouring in
whenever it's time to push.
And like, literally fiveminutes ago, I just was told I
was four centimeters andprobably having a C-section.
And now my room has like six orseven people in it and I'm
being like told you need to pushright now.
(32:22):
And I was like I'm not, I'm notready to push right now, like
I'm not ready yet.
I had wanted my mom to be thereand I had sent her home.
It's like seven in the morningnow I sent her home for the
night and I was you know, I'mjust I'm not ready and it was
pretty much like too bad.
And I can remember there waslike a nurse's assistant and
(32:45):
somebody else standing behind myhead and they're like having
like a little workplace, likeconflict bickering thing going
on and I'm just like what, likewhat is going on here?
Like what alternate reality amI in right now?
And like I don't know.
The first two times like Icaught my own baby and like
(33:07):
pulled them up to myself, likethe the midwife didn't even ask,
like called my husband downthere and was like come catch
the baby, and so which?
Like maybe some women likedon't care and want their
husband to catch the baby orwhatever, but like didn't even
ask and like I'm too out of itto like even comprehend.
(33:29):
And then there's like a babythat and like my poor husband,
you know he whatever, he didn'tknow he puts the baby on me,
like backwards, like facing awayfrom me, like so he puts the
baby on my stomach facing him,and she has a super short cord
(33:50):
and so I can't pull her anyhigher and like I can't really
twist her.
So it's like probably 10minutes before I like even get
to see my baby's face becauseher cord short and she's turned
away from me, and it was likethey they knew I wanted delayed
cord clamping and like wanted towait until the placenta came
(34:14):
out to cut the cord.
Um, but they were like, uh,it's been you know however many
minutes five minutes and theplacenta is not out yet.
So we have to cut the cord.
So my husband cut the cord,whatever.
I finally got to like actuallyhold my baby.
And another thing like I did notwant the baby like wiped off or
washed or anything like that.
(34:36):
And they started like hoveringand like being like the baby's
not maintaining temperature.
So they ended up taking my babyand like washing her off and
like putting her in the warmer,which I yeah, as you can
remember, I was really opposedto the warmer.
(34:58):
But like at this point it'slike what can I do?
They're telling me to eitherlet them do this or they're
going to take my baby to theNICU.
So then my baby's like in thewarmer, being rubbed and, you
know, washed and harassed bystrangers, and I'm like just
across the room watching, youknow, and then it was just the
whole time.
It was always something else.
(35:18):
Well, now her blood sugar is alittle low.
If her blood sugar doesn't goup, we're going to have to take
her to the NICU.
It's like, well, you just tookher from me to go spend 15
minutes in the warmer.
I haven't even got to nurse heryet, of course her blood sugar
is low, just leave us alone.
And then I had the baby and Iwanted to go home.
(35:39):
I was like, okay, we're here,she's fine, we're going to go
home now.
And then it's like, well, youcan't go home, you can leave
against medical advice.
But if you leave againstmedical advice, they'll be like
stuff filed with CYFD for youtaking the baby and your
insurance won't pay for anything.
(35:59):
So then it's like I'm heldhostage in the hospital with my
baby, for you know, they said ithad to be 24 hours after the
birth, but you know, at 7 or 8am the next day there's nobody
there who's like ready todischarge us.
So then it's like three or fourin the afternoon the next day
before we finally get to go home.
(36:19):
And so I had a really, really,really rough postpartum, a lot
of postpartum depression andanxiety and just was really
unhappy for a while.
I mean, even now it's not superpleasant to talk about and yeah
, it was just a really, reallyhorrible experience.
(36:41):
And the sad thing is I think Iprobably had a better experience
than a lot of women get in thehospital.
Angela (36:49):
Yeah, what were your thoughts like around induction
at that time?
Keely (36:54):
I feel like they, they like kind of spent the whole
pregnancy Like I don't know knowwhat the right word is, telling
me these stories aboutsomething's wrong with you,
something's wrong with the baby.
This is a really dangerouspregnancy.
It was just constantindoctrination about the risks
(37:21):
of what I was dealing with andjust like constant reminders
that something's probably wrongwith the baby.
You know, and at one point wedid consent to like some like I
didn't ever do like anamniocentesis or anything like
that, but we did do some likeblood work to to rule out some
(37:42):
genetic stuff, just to see ifthat's why she was so small,
because I guess, like dadsyndrome, you could have a
really small baby.
Um, so I mean, we did do someminor genetic, you know, like
whatever they could do via bloodwork I was okay with doing,
just so we would know if therewas something like that that we
were dealing with.
(38:04):
I don't know where I was goingwith that other than like I just
feel like it was just likeindoctrination the whole time
and just like a completeteardown of, like my trust in my
body and myself.
So I didn't really feel like bythe time we got to 39 weeks,
that I had any other choice butto do what they told me and be
induced like it's like youeither do this or your baby's
(38:28):
gonna die.
Like IUGR babies are this muchpercentage like every week that
passes after this point are somuch more likely to be born
still stillborn.
So it didn't really feel like achoice, like it just felt like
if you want your baby to be bornalive, this is what you have to
do.
Angela (38:49):
Yeah, I feel like it's a lot of like standard of care
versus like maybe there'sdifferences in each individual
and it's like these ideologieson each side that we're going to
get into, but, like thishospital side has their
ideologies and the wayeverything should be, which
fuels the extreme and the otherdirections too, and it's like
(39:11):
there should be a middle ground.
When did you find out you werepregnant for the fourth time?
Keely (39:17):
So we have a pretty big age gap between our third and
our fourth.
After that experience, like atthe beginning of my pregnancy,
there was like a lot ofencouragement to terminate and
also like a lot of like warningslike don't ever do this again,
and also like a lot of likewarnings like don't ever do this
(39:39):
again, which obviously I'veheeded really well.
So after that experience, likeI don't know, my husband had a
vasectomy scheduled for I don'tknow, like her daughter was
maybe eight weeks old, and hedidn't go.
He was like I just I don't knowabout that.
(40:01):
So I guess that's kind of theyou know the opening for maybe
we'll have more.
He, you know, didn't go get hisvasectomy.
So I had an IUD put in at mysix-week postpartum appointment
and at that point like just waslike really trying to—I had a
(40:24):
pretty severe postpartum relapseof my autoimmune disease and so
I was just trying to findanswers and find healing outside
of the medical system andoutside of the medical model.
Because after that whole birthexperience I just lost all faith
(40:57):
in Western medicine and juststarted to look for, just
started to look for somethingelse and that's kind of started,
like I mean I would definitelysay, a journey that I'm still on
, just like health and wellnessand well-being, like outside of
traditional medicine.
So that was kind of a long road.
When my daughter was about ayear old, I knew that I wanted
to have another baby.
But I definitely wasn't in aplace health-wise yet to have
(41:23):
another baby think is prettycrazy, especially like a nursing
mom.
But I did some pretty just somepretty intense like healing
things.
I did some pretty intensefasting, like even dry fasting
for days at a time which I thinklike really let like a lot of
(41:48):
healing happen internally.
I did a bunch of differentdietary protocol things and I
was able to get off themedication that I was on for my
autoimmune disease and not havea relapse.
So I was like in remission andtook out my IUD, which in
(42:14):
hindsight I think caused a lotof problems.
I had the copper IUD and Ithink that that really affected
my fertility.
I really struggled to getpregnant with our fourth baby.
Uh, we, I probably.
I mean the first, our firstbaby was like an accidental
(42:36):
surprise, and then our second,two, I mean we got pregnant
immediately pretty much.
So our first three we conceivedlike with zero effort and it
took from the time that we likeactively started trying till I
got pregnant.
It took over a year and a half,which was pretty discouraging.
(42:58):
That's like such a hard thingto deal with, like really
wanting a baby and not beingable to get pregnant.
So that was like really hard.
We finally got pregnant whenour youngest was almost four.
By the time.
I got pregnant with our fourthand I just called up the same
(43:19):
old midwife that I had had myhome births with before.
So at this point it's beenquite a while since I've talked
to her, even longer since I'vehad a birth with her, and a lot
has happened.
This is like right during COVID, it's the end of 2020 when I
(43:39):
get pregnant.
We had spent pretty much thewhole time between when I we
moved into an RV, when my thirdbaby like the horrific hospital
birth baby was three months old,we moved into an RV and started
traveling full time.
And when I got pregnant withour fourth baby, we had like got
(44:03):
that out of our system a littlebit and had just bought a house
back in the town where we hadbeen living before, so we'd been
traveling full-time for threeand a half years.
It felt like I don't know.
It just felt like we weretotally different people in a
different family at that pointand I'd really made as much
(44:28):
peace as I could with my lastbirth and knew that getting
pregnant again, my midwife mightnot be able to take care of me.
I might have to have anotherhospital birth and I was not
happy about that per se.
But I at least knew what I wasgetting into from the start.
(44:49):
But my autoimmune disease waslike under control and I was
able to have a midwife, and soit was great, super, super
uneventful pregnancy.
I had my daughter on her duedate.
She was born in call, which wasreally cool and just like a
(45:12):
really, really, really usefulpregnancy.
I can remember postpartum beingsuch a shock because I had been
so comfortable.
I mean my kids were older, likeI did still have like a four
and a half year old or whatever,but four and a half I mean
that's not a baby anymore.
Like you're sleeping throughthe night every night and like
everybody can get their ownsnacks and like wipe their own
butts and you're not through thenight every night, and like
(45:32):
everybody can get their ownsnacks and like wipe their own
butts and you're not taking astroller anywhere.
So postpartum like kind of hitme like a bus.
I was like whoa, I forgot whatall this was like, even up until
40 weeks pregnant, like I wassleeping through the night.
That baby was positioned justright, like I didn't have to get
(45:54):
up to pee or anything.
So going from that at 40 weekspregnant to a newborn was like
whoa, this is so hard.
Angela (46:05):
Were you able to catch this baby?
Yes, beautiful.
How were things looking as yougot pregnant with your fifth
baby?
Keely (46:13):
beautiful, how were things looking as you got
pregnant with your fifth baby.
So my fifth baby was another,like accidental surprise, and I
had a really hard time likecoming to terms with the fact
that we were going to have fivekids, like whoa.
So the pregnancy was kind ofemotionally hard coming to terms
with that and like feelingguilty, like not that I
(46:37):
considered termination, but justlike I felt so guilty for not
wanting, like not being 100%,like so pumped and like wanting
it and I'd never experiencedthat before, experienced that
(46:58):
before.
So the pregnancy itself was alot harder, emotionally and then
also physically.
All my babies except for myhospital baby who was barely
five pounds, were all like sevenpounds, like right around seven
pounds, seven pounds, whateverounces, and my fifth baby was
over nine pounds.
So I think that's probably why,like, the third trimester was
(47:19):
so much harder, so much pelvicpressure, like I had a baby that
was, you know, two poundsheavier in there but his birth
was really precipitous.
My fourth baby, my labor wasabout three hours and my fifth,
my labor was about an hour and ahalf.
Angela (47:39):
Did you have the same?
Keely (47:39):
midwives.
I did have the same midwife andshe didn't make it to the birth
.
So I guess that's kind of likewhen I had this like mental
shift to where I was like, ohwhy, my husband was like do we
still have to pay her?
Like, yeah, I'm pretty sure westill have to pay her, but yeah,
(48:05):
she missed the birth and yeah,that was like kind of another
turning point where it was likewhy are we paying somebody all
this money?
We obviously can do it alone.
What do you kind of do as anurse?
Nothing like that.
(48:36):
We've both done a whole lot ofother stuff, but that I mean
just from almost the beginningof my nursing career.
I graduated from nursing schoolwhen my daughter was two weeks
old, my first baby.
So like from the beginning Iwas kind of like I can't do that
, like that goes againsteverything I believe in about
birth.
So that's not ever been, that'snot ever been like I'm an
(48:59):
interest and that's not everbeen on my radar as something to
do as a nurse.
Angela (49:05):
Yeah, so what were your thoughts as you were thinking
about signing up for a programlike the mmi?
Keely (49:17):
so after my son was born, I like kind of like, with every
pregnancy like, um, like mypostpartum period like became a
little more sacred and like Istarted, you know, you know
wanting to do kind of like alying in sort of thing and
(49:38):
spending some weeks in bed andwas very specific about, you
know, the nutrition that Iwanted postpartum and like
herbal remedies and tincturesand stuff that I wanted on hand,
and just kind of startedsharing some of that with like
women in my community andfriends and taking, you know
(50:01):
like, instead of taking a mealor something also sometimes
doing that, but instead oftaking a meal or whatever to
most part of moms in mycommunity, taking, you know like
bone broth and some herbaltinctures and things like that.
And it just seemed like, youknow, my, my best friend got
(50:26):
pregnant when my fifth baby wasjust a couple of months old and
she was planning an unassistedbirth and had asked me to just
be there for like emotionalsupport and just to, like you
know, just have a friend and asister there and then so I was
(50:51):
there at her unassisted birthand like, after having my own
and then being like a helper atthis one, I was just like so lit
up about, like this possibilitythat like, not that we don't
need midwives, but that birth isjust it's so natural that it's
(51:16):
literally going to happenwhether there's somebody there
or not.
Like it's just, it just works.
And then, a couple of monthsafter my friend had her baby, I
was invited to another birth andI was just like whoa, like this
is happening, people want me attheir birth, like what.
And I, like I just felt like I,if that was something that I was
(51:42):
going to be doing, like if Iwas going to answer this calling
, I needed more to feelcomfortable doing it.
Doing it Like I needed notnecessarily something medical,
because at this point I ampretty anti the medical
establishment but like I needsomething.
Like I need some kind oftraining, like some kind of
(52:03):
wisdom around all of this.
That like there were some kindof emergency, I would be able to
do something right Besides like9-1-1.
Like I felt like I needed somekind of like skills, more skills
yeah, and some guidanceprobably right.
Angela (52:22):
Yeah, so when did you first hear about the free birth
society?
Keely (52:28):
so my friend who was planning her unassisted birth
like I I'm sorry, like I'm atthis place where, like I can't
even use the term free birthwithout like just feeling so
like it, just like after myexperience with them, so I have
been using the term unassistedbirth my friend who I was at her
(52:52):
birth that was in February of2024.
She had bought the free birthsociety like whatever the guide
(53:13):
to free birth or whatever andhad like shared some of that
information with me, since I wasgoing to be like her partner,
and so that was the first timethat I was exposed to it and I
wish that I had like honored myfirst reaction to like watching
some of those videos with her.
I was like really really turnedoff by both of the teachers,
really really turned off by bothof the teachers, but I valued
(53:35):
some of what they were saying.
So I I know you're using thisfor a podcast, but it's like not
my preferred mode of likeobtaining information.
I like can't.
Maybe it's just cause I have somuch going on, but like I can't
just focus if I'm justlistening right like I am more
(53:55):
of like like I have to readsomething.
Like I'm not an auditorylearner, I guess.
So I tried to like get into thepodcast and stuff and I never
really could, but I was likethat's cool, I like what they're
doing, I like that, I like theidea of.
And then, like right at thetime that I started searching
(54:17):
out like some kind ofalternative midwifery education,
they started putting out stuffabout MMI.
So what they were marking as theworld's leading sovereign
midwifery school, which is notwhat it ended up being, but it
(54:38):
definitely was not what it endedup being and I just like fell
so hard like hook line andsinker for the marketing I was
actually debating, mainly forcost reasons, between MMI and
(54:58):
Mafios program, which is justlike she doesn't do a lot of
marketing Right, and the websiteher website.
She's lovely.
Her website is a little hokey,you know, and.
Angela (55:28):
I was like oh, I don't know about this, like I don't
know.
So I ended up going with MMI,which was obviously a huge
mistake, and I way wish that Ihad gone with.
Wapio has the real wisdom.
Spoiler alert for anybodythat's listening.
What we were all kind oflooking for in MMI is inside of
Wapio's programs.
So that's hard, but you don'tknow, I fell for it too.
(55:48):
I had no clue about who Wapiowas or what her program was when
I had signed up for MMI and Iwas looking for the same thing.
So that is where we met eachother.
We were in the same pod.
When did you first start tonotice that the content was
really lacking?
Keely (56:06):
I started, I mean even from the first semester, there
would be, or like first quarteror whatever there would be weeks
that I would log in to look atthe content and I'd be like what
, there's three videos for theweek and one of them's a
10-minute meditation.
Like I'm paying this much moneyand paying thousands of dollars
(56:29):
for a 10-minute lecture and a a10 minute meditation that
somebody is reading me from abook.
So I guess, like through thatfirst, through that first
quarter, I kind of just was likenext quarter will be better.
You know, I can see why this isimportant and I really do see
(56:53):
the value in if you're wantingto serve other women, like
really knowing yourself anddealing with like your own
traumas and your own issues,right, like I 100% am behind the
idea of that.
So, almost right away to answeryour question, yeah, almost
(57:14):
right away I was kind of likeseriously.
And then, as we moved into thesecond quarter, which there's
only one quarter of this programthat's actually devoted to
midwifery, and like how couldyou possibly like cover all
aspects of midwifery in 12 weeks, like, and that's just that's
(57:39):
on me, cause I think that thatwas.
I mean, the four quarters wereadvertised as what they were
going to be.
There was a syllabus that youcould look at before before you
signed up, before you signed up,but the second quarter brought
(58:00):
like some glaring uh issues forme, like I am trained as a nurse
and even though I'm prettyanti-western medicine, I'm not
anti anti like physiology andlike how our bodies actually
work.
And this program had nophysiology like, no actual, like
(58:23):
pretty, pretty close to zeroactual physiology presented,
maybe like some very briefmention of some of the hormones
involved in birth.
No textbooks, no resources,nothing to point you to other
(58:44):
places you could learn about it.
It was just completely absent.
Angela (58:48):
Yeah, that was hard and a major letdown, for sure.
What led you to remove yourselffrom the program before it
finished?
Keely (58:58):
So, even like wrapping up the second quarter, I was still
pretty committed to stayingbecause I was like, okay, like
the business stuff, like what ifthere's something there I need?
And then so like I'm alreadyhaving these doubts and concerns
that I had when I first watchedvideos from the guide to free
(59:21):
birth, like a lot of thosethings like had stuck with me
through the program.
One of the teachers inparticular would show up to
(59:44):
class and there wouldn't be alesson plan.
It would just be like we'rejust going to chit chat for
three hours.
And I was like what?
Like that's not what I'm herefor, I'm not here for that.
But so like a lot of thosethings like kept coming up, like
it just felt like there wasn'ta plan, that people weren't
(01:00:09):
prepared.
But I really really did like andrespect and feel like our pod
mentor had a lot of knowledgeand the last time that I met
with her there just seemed likesomething was off, like yeah,
she pretty much told us that shewasn't supposed to be pointing
(01:00:34):
us towards other resources.
We were asking for moreinformation because in that pod
meeting we were supposed to betalking about the videos.
The project for that month wasto make a video talking about
physiological birth, you know,even though you've been given no
(01:00:54):
information on physiologicalbirth.
Yeah, so like there were peoplelike asking, like is there
going to be more info on this,or where do we get more
resources?
And she like was kind of like I, you know, like I'm not
supposed to be giving you, I'mthat's not what my role is
(01:01:18):
supposed to be, like I'm notsupposed to tell you that, or I
don't know her exact words, I'mnot trying to put words in her
mouth.
Angela (01:01:24):
Right, I remember that call too.
It was very strange.
And then, like immediatelyafter that, like four mentors,
they had stepped down.
Keely (01:01:34):
Yes.
So that was like a huge redflag to me that she had left and
then, like all the Reddit stuffstarted coming out.
Then students were being kickedout of the program for having
private conversations in spacesthat were outside of the school
(01:01:59):
social network and that reallyreally rubbed me the wrong way.
I was not kicked out I will saythat I left voluntarily but
that just was like a huge likethat was a really big problem to
me that they and openly on theschool network, like the school
(01:02:20):
social mighty networks page,were encouraging women within
the program to turn each otherin, and that just to me that was
just like a hard, a hard pass.
That's not, that's not what I'm.
(01:02:44):
Just I don't like that at all.
Like I feel like a big reasonthat I went with MMI was to like
build community with otherwomen and I just felt like it
was really wrong for them to betrying to get us to turn on each
other.
Angela (01:02:55):
For asking questions about like hey, are we going to
like learn about anything likekind of related to midwifery?
Keely (01:03:02):
Like we're not even we're not looking for like the actual
hands-on skills, but like we'dlike to have some information,
some resources, some, you know,guidance that we signed up for,
right, like yes, I don't thinkthat most of the questioning
that was going on was like Idon't think, and I don't think
that any of it started out aslike people wanting to leave the
(01:03:24):
program or malicious, like Ithink it was like genuine
concern and women wanting to waslike genuine concern and women
wanting to, I think, women evenwilling to wait, like you know,
like we have lifetime access,like can you use this feedback
to add to the program and we canhave the information later, or
whatever.
(01:03:45):
But it was just not there was.
They did not accept thefeedback.
And then the other reallyreally huge red flag for me,
where I was just like I can't, Ican't stay, was whenever one of
the one of our classmates Idon't know her personally never
talked to her Her baby diedduring her free birth.
(01:04:06):
And even after we had just goneover and talked about, like
infant loss and you know,stillbirths and things like that
and like how you needed to comeup beside these mothers in
these hard times, even aftergoing over all of that, there
was no outreach from them, likethere was no encouragement from
(01:04:32):
them to like come alongside thiswoman, like in our immediate
space.
Angela (01:04:38):
Yeah, so that was disturbing.
Yeah, and that's about the timewhen it wasn't just you, there
was several of us that all kindof started leaving the program
right around that that time.
And what and what was it likefor you, as you were unenrolling
?
Keely (01:04:58):
So I was kind of on the fence about unenrolling, mainly
because of all the money I hadspent, and I showed up to the
last Friday call that I wouldattend.
It was at the very last Fridayof March and I was hoping to get
some clarity or some answers,hoping to hear something that
(01:05:20):
would make me feel like I hadn'tjust wasted a bunch of money
and was still in a good space.
And what I heard in that callwas pretty much the opposite of
that.
Like one of the you know thefounders of the program came on
the zoom call and pretty muchlike openly mocked all of us and
(01:05:44):
was like you can attend threedog births and open an online
midwifery school, and was justkind of like so you get what you
get, you know.
And after that I was like no,no, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm leaving.
That was like the nail in thecoffin for me.
That was just like so degradingand disrespectful, like I came
(01:06:11):
here to learn from you andyou're telling and have you
attended any births?
Or just three dog births?
Like what are you saying here?
Angela (01:06:20):
Yeah, that kind of became the question that a lot
of us started asking at thattime.
We're like how many births havethey attended each like outside
of the system you know, andnobody really knows the answer
to that yeah, so I withdrew onApril 1st and it was a good
(01:06:42):
thing for me.
Keely (01:06:43):
I don't regret doing it, I don't regret, I don't regret
withdrawing.
Like there have been like a fewmoments like where I mean, like
I said, it's not regret likethat, I'm not an MMI it's just
regret that I didn't make abetter choice.
I found out that I was pregnantmaybe a week or two before I
(01:07:05):
left the program and so likeright now, you know, I spent
probably over an hour on thephone with Wapio.
She opened modules for me tolook at.
I think her program looksreally, really like what I was
looking for, but I just was notin a place where I could jump
(01:07:28):
into another program at thebeginning, a place where I could
jump into another program atthe beginning.
Angela (01:07:32):
But that's definitely on my radar you know, as my
seasons continue to change, yeah, so how has your pregnancy been
going for you so far and whatis your plan?
If you don't mind sharing, Idon't mind.
Yeah, I don't mind sharing.
Keely (01:07:47):
It's been a really hard pregnancy.
I was really really sick thefirst trimester, which I think
is really normal, and then, likeright as I was starting to feel
better, my family got whoopingcough, which has been like
absolutely horrific to deal with.
I mean, just in general it'sbeen rough, Like all of my kids
(01:08:08):
have it and that's that's hard.
I mean like we got it in Mayand we're still coughing at the
end of July and having thatpregnant has been really, really
hard.
My sixth pregnancy, my bladdercontrol isn't what it used to be
, so it's like coughing so hardI'm peeing myself, Coughing so
(01:08:30):
hard I'm throwing up.
It's been really, really rough,I don't know.
So at the beginning, likebefore I got pregnant, and then,
like in the immediate, like youknow, the immediate realization
that I was pregnant, I wasplanning a free birth, and then
just everything that happenedwith MMI, I like really really
(01:08:51):
started to doubt that.
I was like have I just beenindoctrinated by the women who
are like just out to make moneyoff of people like me who fell
for their marketing?
So it's been like a lot toprocess mentally, like a lot to
process mentally.
The midwife that I used for myother pregnancies retired and so
(01:09:24):
I like didn't have that crutchto fall back on where I probably
would have just done that.
I've interviewed a couple ofother midwives and one of them I
really clicked with.
And one of them I reallyclicked with and she um, she's
really cool.
She's an older lady.
She's attended like over 7,000births.
She's like really I mean I'venot attended births with her,
but she made it sound like she'svery hands-off and like has a
(01:09:48):
similar mindset around birth tome as I do.
I like we talked a lot aboutlike me leaving MMI and just
like a lot of the thoughts thatI had around that I felt like
being in MMI, like I felt almostlike ashamed of having
midwifery care, Like I hadn'tlike done the ultimate thing,
(01:10:15):
which was like have a free birth, and so like my births were
less than in some way.
Angela (01:10:22):
Which is not true, but it does make you feel that way,
like when you're inside of theseprograms, like don't talk about
that, like in class, or youknow.
Keely (01:10:31):
Totally so.
She was really.
She was really cool lady.
We I mean she probably spentthree or four hours with me over
several, several meetings andlike I actually offered to like
let me apprentice with her andstuff, like we really connected.
But I just didn't feel and Iwould love to do that at some
(01:10:52):
point when I'm in a differentseason but I also just didn't
feel like it was the rightchoice to have her at my birth.
So I am planning an unassistedbirth.
I haven't had any traditionalprenatal care to this point.
In traditional prenatal care tothis point, my retired midwife
(01:11:16):
did write me a referral for ananatomy scan because I did feel
like for me that felt likesomething that's relatively
non-invasive and could give me alot of information.
So I did have that a couple ofweeks ago and everything looks
good and that's something I'vehad in pretty much all my
pregnancies.
So I don't have any regretsabout doing that and I'm kind of
(01:11:38):
doing I guess I'm kind of doingmy own prenatal care Me, my
husband has checked my bloodpressure a couple of times and I
guess that's the extent of myown prenatal care right.
And my best friend who I went to, her unassisted birth is going
to be coming out for a few weeks.
I don't know if she'll be herefor the actual birth or not, but
(01:12:02):
she's going to be here.
Hopefully she's here for thebirth I would love that.
But she'll be here for likethree weeks around the time I'm
supposed to have the baby andthe immediate postpartum period.
So I'm glad to have somebodyhere to like help me make help
(01:12:25):
me make all my like little brewsand tinctures and and my
husband's great at a lot ofthings but those aren't his
strongest specialties.
So I'll be glad to have herhere to help me with all of that
and just to have a friend here.
It's nice in postpartum to havethat female connection.
Angela (01:12:51):
Yeah, birth alone and do postpartum in community, for
sure.
Keely (01:12:56):
Yes, totally.
Angela (01:12:58):
As a final question if you were to give advice to
someone who's expecting, or evennew parents, what's like one of
the biggest things you mightwant to share?
Keely (01:13:06):
I feel like the biggest thing I would want to share with
somebody who was pregnant forthe first time or, you know,
even not the first time, justexpecting and wanting to do
something a little different isthat birth works and your body
works and it, you know, it wasall designed to work perfectly
(01:13:29):
without intervention.
Yeah, couldn't agree more.
Angela (01:13:34):
Well, thank you so much, keeley, for taking the time to
chat with me today and shareyour story.
Yeah, thanks for having me,angela.
Before you go, I just want toremind you I have a ton of
resources for pregnancy andbirth If you're pregnant,
whether you're a first-time momor if this is your fifth baby.
I want you to check out theshow notes, because I have some
(01:13:56):
free trainings and freedownloads that you can sign up
for, as well as the link toaccess my Labor of Love, a
comprehensive, self-paced onlinechildbirth education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
(01:14:16):
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
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