Are you a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother, or simply interested in the world of birth? You’re in the right place!
In this episode, we discuss:
- Molly's Two Hospital Birth Stories on Martha's Vineyard Massachusetts
- Her Journey through the Radical Birthkeeper School
- The Beautiful Freebirth of her third baby
- Molly's experience with the FreeBirth Society's MatriBirth Midwifery Institute... errr MatriBirth Mentor Institute..
- ….and a whole lot more!
Additional Resources you’ll LOVE…
If you are ready to prepare for an autonomous birth experience, where you’re respected as the authority over your body and your baby… regardless of where you plan on birthing -
CLICK HERE for 10% off the MyAutonomous Birth self-paced, online course!
Not sure where to start? I’ve got you covered! Check out my FREE resource, 37 Questions to Ask Your Care Provider. Whether you’re interviewing new providers or have already established care, this FREE resource offers guidance on important topics to discuss with your provider.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Molly (00:00):
home birth options are very limited.
So I was listening to thepodcast, you know, getting all
the ads for the Radical BirthKeeper School, all the like open
house zoom calls with past RBKgrads.
I was doing all those and thenI signed up thinking I would
(00:25):
still be a doula, I would stilldo hospital births, but I wanted
to be an option.
That was just my goal, Likelet's have more options.
But then I think when I wastaking the Radical Birth Keeper
School which at the time that Idid it was a three month long
(00:46):
program and we had two or threetwo hour calls a week is a lot
more than I think it is now.
But when I was doing it, therereally became I want to say
sense, but not like a sense it's.
There really became I want tosay sense, but not like a sense
it's being a doula was made toseem like very evil and that you
(01:12):
were just complicit in women'storture and abuse and it made me
feel like being a doula was abad thing.
Angela (01:26):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(01:47):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 124of my Main Birth.
This week I'm doing something alittle bit different and I'm
(02:09):
chatting with some of thefriends that I met at the Free
Birth Society's MatriBirthMidwifery Institute, or what
started as the MatriBirthMidwifery Institute.
I do want to say in thebeginning of all of these
episodes that I very muchsupport a woman's right to birth
where, how and with whoever shechooses.
(02:31):
These episodes are more tohighlight the separation of the
beautiful idea of free birth,which can be a perfectly fine
option for many women, from theideologies that are promoted by
the company, the Free BirthSociety.
Today's birth story guest isMolly, and she is here to share
all about her three beautifulbirth stories and her journey
through the Radical Birth KeeperSchool and the MatriBirth
(02:52):
Midwifery Institute.
All right, hi Molly.
Welcome to my Main Birth.
Hi so, to get started, would youshare a little bit about you
and your family?
Molly (03:06):
Yeah, so we live on Martha's Vineyard, massachusetts
.
I was a flower farmer for 10years before having kids and
taught some yoga.
Having kids, I just stoppedflower farming and was just
teaching yoga and then, after mysecond son, then I got into
(03:30):
birth work and did a doulatraining my partner's a
commercial fisherman, and that,I feel like, is a job and a
whole lifestyle.
My parents live on the island,the partner's family lives on
the island siblings living onthe island so we have a nice big
(03:56):
family here, which is reallynice.
I can't imagine raising kidswithout extended family.
Angela (04:00):
Amazing, yeah, so nice to have everybody close together
.
Yeah, amazing, yeah, so nice tohave everybody close together.
Molly (04:07):
Yeah Would you share a little bit about, like what your
views were on birth growing up,maybe like some stories that
you heard.
Plug my ears and be like Idon't want to hear that.
Yeah, and my mom just had threeunmedicated small hospital
(04:33):
births and she was like it'sintense and you just do it.
That's just like what women aremade to do you just do it and
then, as soon as the baby's out,it's over and that's it.
So I wasn't that interested inbirth before, would you say you
were maybe like fearful of birth, or what were your feelings?
(04:55):
around it.
I think maybe not so much fearas much as like being grossed
out, I think, at the time, likebeing grossed out, I think at
the time I was like that's likepushing a watermelon out, that's
crazy, and I just didn't wantto think about it.
(05:15):
And so, as I said, I was flowerfarming, which was beautiful,
just out, in a giant field offlowers, with you know six or 10
other women, all of which wereolder than me, at least to begin
with, and you know they tenother women, all of which were
older than me, at least to beginwith, and you know they were
having babies, and it was justso beautiful.
And one woman that I workedwith was like you need to just
watch a birth video, because I'dnever seen one.
(05:38):
And I remember watching myfirst birth video and being like
that.
That was intense, that wasamazing, and I'm probably never
gonna watch another birth videoagain.
Flash forward, you know, now Iprobably watch a birth video
every single day.
So then, when I got pregnantwith my first, first son, I was
(06:02):
24.
And I wanted to have a homebirth, but on the island there
was only one home birth midwifeat the time, who that I knew we
worked on the same farm when wewere younger and she was
(06:25):
pregnant.
We're having our babies like acouple months apart, so she
wasn't available and then theonly other option was getting a
midwife from off island to comeand you'd have to find them
housing.
It just sounded like too muchfor me to wrap my head around at
the time to figure that out.
(06:46):
So I had my first son at thesmall hospital on the island and
when I was pregnant with him Ireally didn't want to do any
research on birth.
I didn't want to psych myselfout.
So the only thing I did toprepare for that birth was my
(07:07):
mother-in-law gave me a reallyold copy of Spiritual Midwifery
and I didn't even read it, Ijust would look at the pictures
a lot, and that book has somereally beautiful birth pictures,
just like ecstatic, joyfulfaces.
And it was a very smoothpregnancy, very smooth birth.
(07:35):
And we went in and I was likeman, I might, I might be in
labor.
I was having, you know, losingmy mucus plug and I was like I
might be in labor.
I was having, you know, losingmy mucus plug and I was like I
might be in labor.
Let's just go get checked.
And I went in and they're likeyou're six centimeters and like
(07:56):
you're gonna stay.
So my partner went back, gotour stuff and we just labored
alone in the hospital, just meand him, and there's a birth
pool, and it felt really doable,which surprised me.
And I remember I think this islike the moment I fell in love
with birth.
(08:16):
I had gone a cervical check andI was like nine centimeters.
I was like, oh, we're likethere, this is like almost over
and it hasn't been bad, it'sbeen great.
And I had this realization.
I was just I.
(08:38):
All I've been doing isbreathing and moving my body
intuitively and I was like thisis yoga, this is what I've been
doing my whole life, this isjust the world's best yoga
practice, and that one is when Ireally fell in love with birth.
(08:58):
And then, after he was born, Istarted to research birth and I
started to become obsessed withbirth podcasts and listening to
birth stories, asking womentheir birth stories.
So that was a big pivot for howI thought about and felt about
(09:21):
birth.
I went from being kind of likegrossed out, didn't want to hear
about it, to just beingcompletely fascinated and I just
like saw every womandifferently.
I feel like I saw the world.
I was like you gave birth.
That's incredible.
I was like everyone that has akid gave birth.
(09:41):
My mind was like blown.
I was.
That is like the most amazingthing ever and everyone does it.
Angela (09:49):
Yeah, it's so cool.
It really really is.
I love that story.
That's such a beautiful storyand yeah, it's like wait a
minute, it's not.
It's not gross, it's not allthat bad.
This is so awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
So how was your postpartum withhim?
Molly (10:05):
So awesome, yeah, yeah.
So how was your postpartum withhim?
It was pretty good.
I mean, I was 25 when he wasborn.
I just turned 25.
And, like most people, when youhave your first you don't
prepare for postpartum.
But I feel like I was justyoung and healthy.
So I healed pretty quickly andright away was kind of wanting
(10:26):
to go out and like do all themom things with my baby.
And then at three months Iwould say I crashed and I was
just like called my parents,like you need to come watch the
baby, like I need to sleep.
So the sleep deprivation reallycaught up with me then and then
I started to slow down and napwhen he napped and um, yeah, but
(10:52):
it was great, I on the island.
There are so many resources forbabies and toddlers.
There's like different freeplay groups every single day, so
it was fun.
It was fun to like become a momand get to do all those things.
They had a they still have amother's group called Baby's
(11:15):
First Year and back then theydid it twice a week and I went
twice a week for a year.
So I was just love chattingwith other moms and hearing
other people's birth stories.
Angela (11:30):
Yeah, finding that community is so special, yeah,
so how did you find out you werepregnant for the second time?
Molly (11:42):
We planned to start trying again when my first son
was two and then the secondcycle got pregnant and, yeah,
there wasn't really much, muchto it.
Um, with both my pregnancies, Iwill say, I was super sick.
(12:04):
My mom was sick in herpregnancies and my sister was
sick in her pregnancies for thefirst 20 weeks.
So, being sick with the firstkid, I had to like quit my job
and just spend three months inthe dark.
And then with the second kid,you know, I'm like going to
(12:26):
toddler art class and puking andI'm just like it's okay.
Okay, I would carry a mason jarwith me in between my legs when
I drove because I would puke,as I was, and my two year old
was was like in the back, like Ineed my puke pot, mommy, and
(12:47):
then he would fake puke.
But other than that, thepregnancy went really well.
Um, again, there was no homebirth midwife on the island and
I was way more confident aboutgiving birth this time.
I spent the last two yearslistening to birth stories and I
(13:11):
was like, yeah, we'll just goback to the hospital again.
And he also just had a quick,easy, very straightforward
hospital birth.
Very straightforward hospitalbirth.
Um, but this time before wewent to the hospital, I was kind
(13:32):
of laboring in the tub a littlebit and I just had the thought
like if I could do whatever Iwanted to do which obviously I
could have, what I would wouldhave wanted to I was like what
if I just stayed here?
What if I just never got out ofthe bathtub and I just stayed,
I was home alone If I juststayed home alone in the bathtub
(13:54):
.
But instead of doing that, wepacked up and went to the
hospital.
He was born a few hours laterand the hospital didn't do
anything wrong.
I was just a little annoyed thistime.
I was like don't do that, Idon't want that.
I wasn't scared of birth, Iguess.
(14:16):
So I was just kind of annoyedby all the unnecessary things
that they were doing, and itwasn't like a bad experience, I
just didn't want to be there.
So at that birth, after thatbirth, I was like well, the next
one is definitely going to beborn at home.
And I think during that laborwith my second son, I had this
(14:42):
seed of like I don't actuallywant anyone there with me.
Had you discovered free birthsociety at this point?
Yeah.
(15:04):
So I second son was born inNovember 2019.
So I started listening to thepodcast probably around 2018,
after the first season.
I probably started during thesecond season of the podcast and
(15:26):
I love the stories you know,and so I guess I did have that
seed in my head already, likebefore I went into labor with my
second son, but I wasn't evenreally connecting the two.
I wasn't like, oh, next time Iwant to have a free birth.
I was just like what I wouldlike, based on what I know about
(15:49):
myself and how I feel the mostcomfortable is, I would like to
be alone, cause I like a prettyathletic person, I really like
movement is my medicine and Ilike running, but I only like
(16:10):
running by myself and I lovedoing yoga, just totally alone.
And I know that for me, inorder to like go deep, I need to
be totally alone, to be totallyalone.
(16:33):
After my second son was born, athis birth, my partner's cousin
had just done a doula trainingand she volunteered to be our
doula for free and we were like,yeah, sure, great Things went
really well the first time, butthere was like a couple of times
my partner had to like go backand get our stuff and I got an
IV, the hep lock, put in when hewas gone and it took like two
(16:56):
hours.
That was probably the worst partof the labor was that they
couldn't get the needle in.
They couldn't get the needle in, and at the first birth he
really wanted a cup of coffeebut he couldn't go get one.
So I was like sure, like shecan be our doula and she can
(17:16):
just like get a cup of coffee,and like there's an annoying
nurse, she can kind of like keepthem out of our space, and I
didn't really think much aboutit.
But then after the birth I waslike she didn't have to do much,
but just having her there,having somebody else kind of in
(17:40):
our team that didn't work forthe hospital and that was just
there for us, made a hugedifference, and so that made me
start to think about becoming adoula and then I did a really
great doula training in WesternMass.
(18:00):
It was a very small four-daytraining with a home birth
midwife and after that I likevolunteered to do some free
births and I did a few freebirths and fell in love like
after I was going home after thefirst birth.
You're just like this, is it?
It doesn't get better than this.
(18:22):
I cannot imagine anything thatwould be more fulfilling to do,
and so from that point on I waslike totally sold.
That was it.
And then I started to look intoFree Birth Society's Radical
Birth Keeper School, because onon the island there's just not
(18:47):
many options.
We have a very small hospital.
It's more like a birth center Iwould say.
They do c-sections but theydon't do anything high risk and
there's only one home birthmidwife and she travels.
So people are very, verylimited in their options.
(19:08):
Nobody wants to go off to givebirth and home birth options are
very limited.
So I was listening to thepodcast, you know, getting all
the ads for the Radical BirthKeeper School, all the open
house Zoom calls with past RBKgrads.
(19:30):
I was doing all those and thenI signed up, thinking I would
still be a doula, I would stilldo hospital births, but I wanted
to be an option.
That was just my goal.
Let's have more options.
But then I think when I wastaking the Radical Birth Keeper
(19:55):
School, which at the time that Idid it was a three-month long
program and we had two or threetwo-hour calls a week, it was a
lot more than I think it is now,but when I was doing it, there
really became, I want to say,sense, but not like a sense.
(20:16):
It's.
Being a doula was made to seemlike very evil and that you were
just complicit in women'storture and abuse and it made me
feel like being a doula was abad thing, like you're heroing
(20:38):
and you're just, you know,holding a woman down while she's
being raped, as Emily says.
I think my views have changed alot, or maybe not changed, but
just gone back to what they werebefore.
So you know, I like took downon my Instagram page it was like
deleted doula.
(20:58):
And then I was a radical birthkeeper and you know people would
ask me to go to their hospitalbirth and I'd be like I don't go
to the hospital and now Ireally don't think that my
personal opinion on birth shouldmatter to anyone but myself
like my views on birth don'tmatter.
(21:19):
When I'm working with a woman,all that matters are her views
and what she wants.
My personal opinion onlymatters in my births.
Yeah, I then was like working asa birth keeper, doing coaching
and attending births, and so Idid the radical birther program
(21:44):
in 2022, spring 2022.
Then I signed up for theLighthouse.
I was in the Lighthouse forthree years.
I did the Blood MysteriesSchool, which was great with
Kristen and Nancy.
There was a lot of content inthat program because they
(22:06):
created it.
I went to the Matriarch RisingFestival in 2023.
And then I got pregnant with mythird son.
Angela (22:17):
When you went to Matriarch Rising, did you go
with your kids?
Molly (22:30):
go with your kids or no.
I kind of thought about it alittle bit.
I drove and it was a long drive, so I kind of played around
with the idea and then I, once Igot there, I was like, oh,
thank god I didn't bring them.
Um, at the time my kids werelike I don't, three and six or
something, or maybe I could havebrought them.
(22:51):
They were young enough that Icould have brought them.
I went there and I did not seeany little boy over a year and a
half old.
It wouldn't have been the rightvibe, like they would have been
sneaking into the woods to likechop a tree down and yeah.
So I didn't bring them, I justwent by myself, which was like
(23:13):
the first time I'd been awayfrom them for a night and I was
gone for 10 days Whirlwind trip.
But when I was there I kind offelt like the whole thing was
just like marketing for the nextyears.
You know there's lots ofphotographers, lots of people
taking videos for social media,but it was nice to meet women
(23:35):
that I'd met through the RadicalBirth Keeper School and through
the Blood Mystery School and inthe Lighthouse.
It was nice to meet women thatI'd only seen through the blood
mystery school and in thelighthouse, so it's nice to meet
women that I'd only seenthrough the phone yeah, yeah,
exactly what were your thoughtsafter leaving the festival?
(23:57):
nothing really too enlightening.
It was a little underwhelming.
Angela (24:01):
I think so was that the first time you started to kind
of see like the free birthSociety and like a little bit of
a new light.
Molly (24:09):
No, I would say that even when I signed up for the
Radical Birth Keeper School, Iwas not super enchanted by Emily
and Yolanda super enchanted byEmily and Yolanda, so I wasn't
(24:31):
really surprised by how thingsseemed a little like
disingenuine.
Angela (24:33):
Yeah, so did you give birth to your third baby before
you started MMI, or what was thetimeline there?
Molly (24:41):
I signed up for MMI like a few weeks before he was born.
Sign up was like May 20th andhe was born June 15th.
Angela (24:54):
Oh, my goodness, okay.
So when did you find out youwere pregnant for the third time
?
And, yeah, like, what were yourthoughts in choosing your care
when you found out?
Molly (25:11):
So before I was even got pregnant with him, I knew I
would have a free birth.
I was like deep in the world,deep at that point.
So that was just a given, thatwas like not a thought that
needed, that I needed to have,like I knew that I wanted to
birth alone so how was thatlooking?
it was, you know, pretty good.
(25:31):
I had two other kids that werekeeping me busy.
I, luckily, was not quite assick as I was with the other two
.
I was only sick for like 12weeks and I was teaching yoga
and like hadn't told anyone Iwas pregnant yet.
(25:52):
So it was like all my classeswere just a little easier than
they used to be.
But yeah, it was good.
It was a really nice, easypregnancy.
It was really nice to justfully listen to myself in
pregnancy, you know, like doingthings like eating raw oysters
(26:15):
and sushi not a big deal at all,and I knew, you know I live on
an island, like I know the fishis good but just doing things
that maybe I would have secondguessed myself about previously.
I was not listening to anybodyelse's opinion, I was just doing
what felt right for me.
(26:35):
I was staying active and eatingwhatever I wanted to eat,
wanted to eat.
It was a great pregnancy.
I was seeing a craniosacraltherapist that I'd been seeing
since I was.
I started seeing him when I waspregnant with my eldest son and
(26:57):
my sister's an acupuncturist.
So I had some appointments withher and when I was like still
deep in being sick, I saw anaturopath and I got IV fluids
with B vitamins and that wasreally nice, like I feel like if
(27:22):
you stay hydrated you don't getas sick, and just getting the
IV fluids I felt good for liketwo days after that throughout
(27:47):
my pregnancy.
And that I was spending a lotof time thinking about was that
I'm RH negative.
And I was spent a lot of timeresearching and thinking about,
if I wanted to, how would I dothat if I was free birthing?
And so I read Sarah Wickham'sbook Auntie D Explained, and I
(28:12):
listened to some podcasts anddid some research and I really
was just going back and forth onit until after he was born,
asking about it in thelighthouse, you know, wanting to
hear other people's what theydid.
And I ended up calling theOBGYN's office and telling them
(28:39):
that I was having a home birth,that I was pregnant and I was
going to hire a midwife.
And they're like well, whatmidwife are you hiring?
And I'm like well, I'm notgoing to tell you that.
And they're like okay, well,yeah, you can have a home birth.
But if anything goes wrong andyou come to the hospital, we're
putting you on a helicopter andwe're flying you to the mainland
.
And I'm like, okay, well, if Icome in because something's
(29:04):
wrong, like it would besomething really wrong and you
probably would have to put me ona helicopter and fly me there
Like I'm not going to come inunless I need to go on a
helicopter.
And they're like, okay, well,we just had to say that.
And then I was talking to themabout, you know, I'm working
with the home birth midwife.
They obviously can't give methe RhoGAM shot.
(29:25):
And they're like, well, you'dhave to establish care with us.
And I'm like, well, I've, youknow, been a patient in the past
.
You have all my information.
I'm not going to come and do anhour and a half intake.
Either we make it easy or I'mjust not going to get it.
And like this is something thatyou are saying I need, but I
(29:49):
don't feel like I need it.
So, unless it's easy, I'm justnot going to do it.
And there was a lot more to itthan this.
It was like first I had to talkto a nurse and I'm like I know
you can't answer my questionsLike I want to speak to this
doctor because I know he's theonly one that can make this
happen, and it was just kind ofinteresting to not be aggressive
(30:15):
or defensive and just be likethis is what I want and this is
how I'm willing to do it, and ifyou can't do it this way, I'm
just not going to do it and likethat's fine.
And eventually they were like,okay, we can do it.
They just kind of needed me tosay, okay, I understand, I'm not
(30:39):
going to do it that way, but Iwill do it this way.
So they kind of knew we ended uphaving it that after I gave
birth you're supposed to get theroad game shot within 72 hours
of giving birth.
Um, that if I ended up decidingI wanted it, I would just call
the office and they would get mein for an appointment that day.
(31:01):
Call the office and they wouldget me in for an appointment
that day.
So I didn't I still was justgoing back and forth.
I did end up getting the shottwo days after he was born and
it was super chill.
I went into the office with mypartner and my oldest son.
I had the baby in the babycarrier the whole time.
We were in and out in 15minutes Like I walked in, got
(31:24):
the shot and left.
I didn't have to do anything.
It was super easy.
Angela (31:28):
That's awesome, that's so accommodating, that really,
and I think that's one of thebiggest things.
Like when you're listening tothe podcast and you're in the
memberships, it's like don't doanything with the medical system
, otherwise all of these badthings will happen, and it's
(31:49):
like well, is that?
Molly (31:49):
true, maybe, yes, in some cases it absolutely can be, but
in a lot of cases it you knowit's not and it's totally fine.
So, yeah, and especially if yougo into it like they're gonna
attack me, they're gonna be rude, they're not going to be
helpful, how dare they, afteryou hear all these things, like
you're gonna go in defensive?
And if you go in defensive andaggressive, that's how people
are gonna come back towards you.
So I'm just like killing withkindness and I got kindness in
(32:13):
return yeah, exactly and yeah,and I really didn't make up my
mind until two days after givingbirth and what.
What ended up I was like I'mnot going to regret getting the
road game shot.
I got it with my other kids.
I never had any sort of sideeffects or anything, and but
(32:36):
there's a chance I would regretnot getting it.
So for me, not getting it, sofor me, that was my decision and
I don't think there's any rightdecision.
The more you research the Rogamshot, the more it's like we
(32:56):
don't know enough really to makean educated decision.
Because there hasn't beenenough research on it.
It's kind of unethical to dothe research.
So it's really, I think, just apersonal decision that
everybody has to make forthemselves.
Angela (33:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You signed up for MMI justbefore your youngest was born.
What were sort of your thoughtsin wanting to sign up for that
program at that point?
Molly (33:22):
for you yeah Well, I knew that the program was going to
start like not super long afterI'd have my third baby and I
thought it would be a reallygreat way to spend my time in
that first year postpartum, likeI'm going to be home a lot.
I knew from RBK that it was areally easy program to do on my
(33:51):
phone, like I can put the babyin the carrier and I can listen
to the videos.
I can do everything from myphone.
I just knew that the way it wasset up was convenient and I was
hoping that it would be a stepup from the radical birthkeeper
(34:13):
school.
Like I was thinking it wasgoing to be the next level, more
in depth, and I was thinking,because of their marketing, that
it was going to be really welldone.
Spoiler alert it was way worseThan RBK.
(34:35):
Way worse than RBK, way worsethan the blood mystery school
and all my own opinion, but alsoworse than the complete guide
to free birth yeah.
Angela (34:47):
So when you started going through the program, at
what point did you start to belike, oh, what did I do?
Molly (34:56):
well it started with.
The first three months were alljust the tools, which is really
just Emily teaching somethingthat somebody else created, what
the Conscious Leadership Groupcreated, going through that book
and doing their activities.
I'm not a huge fan of the tools.
(35:19):
I find there's definitelybenefit in them, but we'd
already gone over the tools inRBK.
It was kind of a more in-depthrefresher but I was like come on
, let's get to the good stuff.
And in there there were someresources, but all the resources
that they provided were justthe conscious leadership groups
(35:41):
resources with like an MMI logo.
But then once the birth quarterstarted, that's when I was like,
oh, this is thrown together.
They're making this up as theygo, they're recording these
videos as they go.
There are no resources.
(36:03):
Um, there's no visuals, nohandouts.
It was all over the place.
So it was in that quarter thatI was like, oh, this feels like
a scam, like this is not welldone.
I kept saying to myself and tomy partner.
(36:24):
I was like if only they put asmuch time and effort into the
course curriculum as they did inthe marketing materials, then
it could have been an okayprogram.
But they put no effort into thecourse but they put no effort
into the course.
Angela (36:44):
Yeah, it was like they're selling the course, and
then we'll just see how thingsgo as we go.
Molly (36:48):
Yeah, and then it's like you bought the course, we have
your money, we won't give you arefund.
We have it in writing that wedon't give refunds.
So what's anybody supposed todo?
All they need to do is havegood marketing.
They don't even need to delivera good course.
Angela (37:05):
they already had everybody's money yeah, it was
intense seeing the courselacking so much in any real
knowledge, and then the livecalls also seemed very just
unorganized, unprepared and justkind of rambling.
Molly (37:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, rambling about their own lives.
You know, like let's just get60 women to listen to you
rambling about whatever's goingon in their life at the time,
and and they weren't very kind Ithink one of the things that I
(37:48):
probably ended up getting kickedout of the school for was that
throughout my time in the FreeBear Society, I really noticed
Emily like using the toolsagainst women, because that was
like her language, you know, andshe was teaching it.
So nobody can speak and use andmanipulate the tools for their
(38:16):
own like benefit as well as shecan.
So she, I think, would use thetools to gaslight and manipulate
women.
That's just my own personalopinion and what I thought I was
seeing, but it didn't feel goodto witness.
Angela (38:36):
Yeah, it sort of was more of like what you said that
you had felt when you had firststarted the RBK school with the
we.
I'm a doula, but like all ofthese things, it's like doula is
a bad thing, you know, and it'sjust more of that kind of like
mean girl energy, I guess I feelit kind of keeps coming up for
me.
Molly (38:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, mean girl , energy and Emilia, you know, I
used to kind of defend her in away where people would be like,
oh, she's like a mean girl andI'd be like, yeah, and she's
like open about it, at least shelike admits that.
You know she'll be like, yeah,mean girl is one of my personas.
(39:14):
But then more and more Istarted to realize in a lot of
different ways they'll kind ofout themselves and then use that
to their benefit, especiallyeven with, like people call us a
cult and yeah, we're, you know,like people will use the
(39:36):
language that people are thengoing to use against them to
their own benefit, then going touse against them to their own
benefit.
Angela (39:44):
It's like say the word before anybody else does.
Yeah, totally so.
How were you, how are thingslooking Like?
What were your thoughts as theyear went on?
Molly (39:54):
Well, it was all kind of quick.
I'd never been on Reddit beforeand I think somebody in the
there was a WhatsApp group chatwith students from the course
maybe like 30 or 40 students andI think somebody in there
(40:16):
commented about it and they'relike I don't know, have you seen
what's on Reddit?
Angela (40:20):
So I went on Reddit and started reading it a little bit,
but before that even theWhatsApp group was created
because women were all startingto talk about how lacking in
content the program was.
I think was how we had startedtalking Right.
And then yeah, so you saw thelink.
Yeah, yeah.
Molly (40:56):
So even you know, before that, towards the end of the
birth course, I remember we hada pod call and we were supposed
to put this together because wedidn't talk about the hormones
of birth in the course at all.
And people were like I didn'tlearn all this stuff, like when
was I supposed to have learnedthat?
(41:18):
Because I don't know that.
Learn that, because I don'tknow that.
And so there started to be alot of discussion among students
about how lacking the coursematerial was and yeah,
discussion in the WhatsApp groupand yeah, maybe Reddit was
posted in there.
I saw that.
(41:40):
And then on a Wednesday therewas a Zoom call for students
that wanted to talk about theschool and how lacking the
course curriculum was, and I wason that call with probably 30
(42:02):
other students, so I was like atleast a third of the students
in the school and a lot ofpeople were speaking up.
I was one of them and I saidsome things in the WhatsApp chat
.
Like there were a few studentsthat organized the call and I
(42:22):
was saying, like good for you,I'm not surprised that the
course material is lacking, like, but good for you.
And then we had class on Fridayand after class on Friday I got
an email that I had beenremoved from the course did you
get something along the lineslines of what you're not a good
(42:44):
fit, or was it like something?
Angela (42:45):
Oh yeah?
Molly (42:47):
It was basically, I think , like a copy and paste of what
the other women had gotten and,you know, I said like a few
things.
Looking back I'm like I can'teven remember exactly what I
said, but I didn't feel likeanything that I said was worse
than what the other.
You know, a lot of other womenin the call were saying, and the
(43:13):
three women that organized thecall, I guess, were kicked out.
And I was kicked out and atfirst I was like, is this a
mistake?
Did they think I helpedorganize the call?
I was just shocked, I didn'tunderstand what, and it was like
a copy and paste of the emailthat they'd gotten.
(43:34):
So there's no explanation oflike you said this in the
WhatsApp chat.
That was, you know, supposed tobe a private chat.
So somebody else in the schoolmust have taken a screenshot of
something that I said or, youknow, made a screen recording of
the WhatsApp call and sent thatto Emily, and my first reaction
(44:00):
was just like confused, shock.
I immediately mailed them back,like, replied to the email
kicking me out, like I am sosorry, please explain to me what
I did, and I never, ever, got aresponse to this day.
Angela (44:21):
And wow, I was just for RBK, after you had paid to be in
the memberships, after you hadpaid for blood mystery school,
after you had paid for MMI.
Molly (44:32):
Not even a response just totally erased, deleted from
everything, lost the coursecurriculum for MMI, for RBK, for
blood mystery school, lostaccess to the lighthouse, like
everything.
And eventually I did the mathand over a four year period I
(44:54):
paid $20,000.
And I didn't even get an emailresponding telling me why I was
kicked out.
Angela (45:04):
When, ultimately, we're like in this group, trying to be
like, are we ever going tolearn any information about
midwifery or around midwifery,which this course is called the
Matriberth Midwifery Institute,and the tagline was the world's
leading sovereign midwiferyschool, which it did not turn
out to be.
Molly (45:27):
Right.
And so the first 24 hours I wasin shock.
Then I was like if I was in anyother program, any other school
and I was discussing the coursecurriculum, I was like upset
with the content, maybe upsetwith the way that the teachers
(45:49):
were treating other students,there would have been a
conversation, you know, therewould have been some sort of
conversation and I doubt I wouldhave been kicked out without a
conversation and a warningBecause I was in the call.
I was like I'm not going to askfor a refund, I'm not going to
(46:12):
do any of this stuff, I think Isaid in the call.
I was like I'm not so concernedabout what has already happened
, I'm more concerned about howthe school is going to be going
forward, because there had beenfour mentors, four of the like
teachers basically in the schoolhad left.
Angela (46:36):
Right at the same time.
So there was a lot of unfolding.
They didn't leave like one andthe other, like they all left at
the same time and there was noexplanation.
They were just like don't askwhy they all left like just keep
going.
Molly (46:47):
Yeah, so that was like a part of why we were having.
The call was like why did youknow?
It was like four teachers,maybe a speaker.
Why are all these women thatare like part of the leadership
in the school all leaving at thesame time?
That was a part of theleadership in the school all
leaving at the same time.
That was a part of thediscussion that we were having
(47:08):
and that's when I was like, oh,maybe this is a little culty,
like if I was just in a schooland I'd question the teachers
and the curriculum, I wouldn'thave been kicked out, totally
erased without any explanationor warning at all.
Angela (47:27):
Yeah, so what were your thoughts after that, as
everything else started tounfold and more women started to
leave the community?
Molly (47:35):
Yeah, it was a lot.
So in the lighthouse that I wasin for three years.
So in the lighthouse that I wasin for three years after my son
was born my free birth son wasborn there were so many
stillbirths in the membershipand I was like what is going on?
(47:57):
It was just one after the other, two in one week and it started
to be the same story kind ofplaying out.
It started to be really hard tolog into the membership and
(48:17):
witness the same time that I wasin MMI and the course
curriculum was just, you know,not even there.
There were all thesestillbirths and women getting
kicked out of the lighthouse.
So there's a lot of differentthings going on within free
birth society at the same time.
Angela (48:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So to back it up a little bit,after you first signed up, you
gave birth to your youngest.
How are things like kind oflooking leading up to when, like
your labor started and how wasyour birth?
Molly (48:54):
Yeah, his birth was amazing.
I like I wouldn't have wantedto change a single thing.
I loved it.
I thought he was going to beborn at like 37 weeks, so my
first was born at 39.
My second was born at 38.
So I was like, all right, we'retrending 37 now.
And there's a common saying inthe birth world that like expect
(49:16):
your pregnancy to go on longer.
I didn't do that and itactually kind of helped me
because when I was in like latethird trimester, I was like you
know, like four more weeks, it'sjust four more weeks, nope, no
problem.
And then, as each week came in,when I was like, whatever, I
(49:38):
can keep doing this, I startedto feel like I was living in a
bit of groundhog's day.
I didn't want to leave thehouse ever.
Roundhog's day, I didn't wantto leave the house ever.
So I was just doing the samething every day, like the kids
would go to school, I would likego for a long walk, take a bath
, pick some flowers, just likeeat, sleep, bathe, yeah.
(50:02):
And I just thought I was gonnagive birth at any time and I
didn't want to leave the house.
I felt really out of it, like Ifelt like I was drugged and I
didn't feel safe driving.
There was one day where I drovethe kids to school they go to
like a little homeschool groupand I made my husband come pick
(50:23):
me up.
So so I was like I don't feelsafe driving.
And then I was just cozy athome.
I had a friend came for a week.
She was going to like hang outwith the kids when I gave birth,
but she came and then had toleave.
(50:45):
He ended up being born at 41weeks and like a week before he
was born I lost some bloodymucus plug and thought, oh,
he'll be born and that didn'thappen.
And I was having like intenseyou know, braxton Hicks, we'll
call him because that's whatpeople know but just like
(51:05):
uterine tightening since 26weeks and I was just having
those consistent uterinetightenings all pregnancy so I
never really thought anythingabout that.
And then on June 14th I hadplans with my mom to get a
(51:26):
pedicure.
My sister in one of her birthsshe went, you know, a bit past
her 40-week date and my mom tookher to get a pedicure and she
went into labor when she wasgetting her nails done and like
left the salon and was like Ithink I'm in labor and had her
(51:49):
baby like an hour and 15 minuteslater.
And so my sister and I alwaysjoke that my mom really wants to
recreate that.
So she was like come on, likelet's go get a pedicure, and I
was like all right, and then Ijust really wasn't feeling it.
I was pretty tired.
I made my partner text my momand text my mom and cancel,
(52:13):
which I think should have beenlike a clear sign because I just
like couldn't even have themental capacity to text her that
I didn't want to go.
So I made him like text her orcall her to cancel.
And then not long after that Iwent pee and had more bloody
mucus and I was like, oh yeah,that's like why I couldn't
(52:39):
cancel, I guess.
And then around 5.30 pm I wentfor a walk and I went out.
We have like a big gate aroundour house and I went out one way
and started walking and I madeit like 150 feet and was just
(53:00):
had all this like blood and wetfluid.
And I'd walked by, a neighborTurned around.
I went back to our house, Ichanged my shorts, I put a pad
on and then I was like I can'tgo back out that way because I'm
gonna see our neighbor and he'sgonna be like why is she
wearing?
So I went out the other way.
(53:21):
I went for like a nice walk allby myself.
It was really beautiful.
I got home I picked some flowers.
I was having like uterinetightenings on the walk, but I'd
been having those so I wasn'tthinking anything about it, they
(53:43):
just felt very Bradsden Hickslike.
But every time I would have oneI'd be like, yes, please give
me more.
I want more, I want more ofthis.
Keep it coming.
And then I got home and Ipicked some roses for the altar.
I'd been at a birth altar and Ijust kept replacing the flowers
(54:09):
for like a month.
I just kept having to replacethe flowers and I was like what
flowers are gonna be on thisaltar when I give birth?
So it was like the lilacs andthen the false indigo and ended
up being roses when he was born.
And then I got home, picked theflowers, set up the altar, just
(54:33):
kept having more bloody mucusand fluids coming out.
And my partner and kids wantedto go fishing that night.
They wanted to go out squiddingand they had had this plan all
day that they were going to goout.
And they were going to go outafterding and they had had this
plan all day that they weregonna go out and they were gonna
go out after dinner.
But at dinner time I was likeyou guys can't go out and
they're like why?
(54:54):
I was like just don't, youcan't, um.
And they're like fine, I wasn'ttelling them anything.
That was going on, notconsciously, just like
protectively of my own space andmind.
And then at 930, I read the kidsto sleep and at 10, I went to
(55:19):
lay down in bed to go to sleepand I was just tossing and
turning, couldn't find acomfortable position, and about
an hour and a half later, at1140, I was like I really
haven't slept at all.
I've just been like rollingaround in bed, getting in all
sorts of like weird shapes withmy pillows, trying to get
(55:43):
comfortable.
And then I was was like let mejust see like I'm having all
these uterine tightening, so letme just see if there's like a
pattern to this.
So then I did some likehalf-assed timing and I had
about five sensations fiveminutes apart.
(56:04):
I was like, okay, this seemslike maybe these are real, but I
still like wasn't uncomfortableor anything.
I was like if this is actuallylabor, I want to go eat
something.
So I went downstairs and I madelike a gluten-free bagel with
(56:28):
ghee and I put dates and salt onit and I was like this is the
most delicious thing I've evereaten and I will put Bridgerton
on on my phone, which was justlike fun new season.
And I started watching it andwas just watching me and my
bagel and then, without evenrealizing it, I kept pausing the
(56:52):
show.
Every time I'd have a sensation, because I just needed to focus
, I couldn't listen to the show.
And then at 12 30 my middle sonwoke up.
He wakes up in the night a lotjust to go pee and he really
wanted me to be with him.
(57:13):
And at first I was like triedto get my husband who's like no,
I just want you.
I was like, all right, it'lljust be easier, I'll just go and
sit with him.
So I was like sitting next tohim and still just like moving
around.
I just can't get comfortable.
Still like in denial, I guess.
But not nothing was painful,just a little tightening.
(57:36):
And I was trying to think atthat time.
I was like you know, because asa doula you want to be able to
explain to people like what doearly labor sensations feel like
?
I was like what's thedifference between this and
Braxton Hicks?
And the only way I can describeit is like this feels a little
more sour, you know, a littlemore like in my back.
(58:00):
My back muscles feel like sour.
I was like I don't know whatthat means, but that that's what
it feels like, kind of likewhen you're getting your period
just a little like sour in myback.
So I sat with him for a littlebit.
He fell back asleep and then Iwas like okay, like this is
(58:23):
probably labor, but this couldrun forever.
So we'll just see.
I pulled out I had like a binfull of birth supplies, I lit a
few candles and then I had topoop.
So I went, I pooped and then Iwas like all right, like still,
(58:44):
this could go on forever, butI'm not going to be able to fall
asleep right now.
So I ran a bath.
So at 1.15 in the morning I gotin the bath and I put on some
birth affirmations that werepretty corny and I was kind of
like laughing at myself forlistening to them.
(59:06):
That were pretty corny, and Iwas kind of like laughing at
myself for listening to them.
And but then I was going backand forth between sitting on the
toilet and pooping and being inthe tub and then my partner
came in at one point because heheard the bath running and like
probably heard me listening tosomething, and he just came in.
(59:26):
He brought me like my reallygiant thought water bottle, put
it down next to me and he justsat down on the floor in the
bathroom, which I thought wasperfect, like he didn't need to
say anything, he just kind ofwas like there.
But still I was like I don'treally need you here right now,
(59:46):
you can go back to sleep.
So he went back to bed and justlay there.
He was like I can't go back tosleep, so he just lay in bed.
And then I moved to the toiletand had a really strong
contraction and was like I can'tsit on the toilet.
(01:00:09):
So I got onto hands and kneeson the floor in the bathroom and
my water broke.
And then I, right after thathappened, like as it was
happening, I reached my fingersup like into my yoni just a
little bit, and I could feel apart of my cervix just like
(01:00:34):
stretched rubbery, almost likedolphin skin.
It was so cool.
And then in one second I couldfeel his head like a finger's
length away.
And then he just dropped fourinches down right onto my
perineum and it was so intense.
(01:00:54):
It went from like just boom.
I could feel his head drop andI was like oh shit.
I said oh shit.
I don't remember it, but mypartner heard it.
He heard me, I guess, likemoaning when I was on the toilet
.
So he went downstairs to thekitchen, washed his hands
(01:01:15):
because he was like I shouldhave clean hands, there's a baby
coming and I said, oh shit, Ifelt so much pressure on my
perineum.
I went from hands and knees tojust being on my knees, with my
knees a little closer together,and had a hand kind of holding
(01:01:37):
his head, kind of relieving someof the pressure, and then he
just flew out.
His whole body just flew out.
I had a hand on his headalready and then I just kind of
brought my other hand under hisbody and immediately brought him
onto my chest and was like, ohmy God, you're here.
(01:02:00):
I thought that was going to beso much longer.
That was so quick because I hadthis moment like right before
he was born.
That now, I know, is transition, where I was just like this is
intense, I don't know how muchlonger I can do this for.
Which was like the only timethat I was like wow, and then I
(01:02:24):
had that oh shit of like he isgoing to rip my perineum, but
then he just flew out like no,pushing nothing, he was just
there.
And then, in hindsight, ofcourse, I was like, oh, that was
so easy, like because Imentally was prepared to do that
for six more hours, to do thatfor six more hours.
(01:02:51):
And then he was just there andjust I was as I was like, oh my
God, you're here.
My partner opens up the door,because he was just right
outside the door and he was justperfect.
He was adorable, he was perfect.
One funny thing was that hedidn't open up his eyes for like
an hour, an hour and a half,after he was born.
So my partner and I were justlooking at him and we're like
(01:03:13):
he's perfect.
He just hasn't opened up hiseyes, so like he might not have
eyeballs, but he's perfect.
Other than that, like we don'teven care.
He did eventually open up hiseyes.
We don't even care.
He did eventually open up hiseyes, but he was just, you know,
perfect.
(01:03:33):
And so he was born at 1 52 AM.
And then I was just kind oflike sitting on the bathroom
floor.
I had one candle in thebathroom.
We kind of turned on anightlight so we could see him a
little more.
We're just hanging out watchinghim.
And then my placenta was bornyears ago after my second son
(01:03:58):
was born.
My second son was four and ahalf when my third son was born,
I got this cast iron enamelbedpan from a thrift store and I
was like this would be perfectfor a home birth.
So I put that onto some yogablocks and I sat on it and
(01:04:18):
birthed the placenta on there.
And then the placenta was bornat 2.35, so like 45 minutes
after he was born.
And again, there's just notmuch bleeding, anything.
There was nothing that made meever feel scared at all.
(01:04:42):
Everything went as well as itpossibly could, which doesn't
mean that like if there's, youknow, a little more bleeding and
it's going to take like maybe alittle more time, but that's
necessarily wrong.
But I was just so grateful thatthere was nothing that made me
(01:05:03):
doubt anything at all.
I felt so confident and safethe whole time.
So the placenta was born at2.35.
And then I just stayed in thebathroom and I nursed him.
And then we cut the cord at 3.20in the morning, an hour and a
(01:05:26):
half after he was born, becauseI had the Elden blood typing
card and I wanted to use thecord blood to test his blood
type.
I was like, well, if he's got anegative blood type, I don't
even need to think anymore aboutlike if I want to do the RhoGAM
(01:05:47):
shot or not.
And before I gave birth to himI made my partner learn how to
use the blood typing cards.
So he had to like prick his ownfinger and test it out.
So he was the expert and he Igot into bed with the baby, got
(01:06:08):
like so cozy there's.
You know, nothing better thanjust immediately getting cozy in
your own bed after giving birth.
It just like set, it's heaven.
And magically, you know, thetwo older boys were sleeping and
(01:06:30):
Arno did the blood type.
He had a positive blood typeand then we just all got in bed
and went to sleep.
And then the boys woke up in themorning and you know the looks
on their faces and theirreactions just priceless.
(01:07:01):
And he saw like some birthsupplies.
So I have like so many birthsupplies all the time so he
knows what birth supplies lookslike.
He's like oh, there's a pack ofChuck's pads.
And so he saw some birthsupplies, like some candles and
Chuck's pads.
When he left his room and hewas like, oh my God, I know the
baby was born.
(01:07:21):
And he came in and my partnerwas like guess what, what?
And he's like I know the babyand just was so happy, like huge
smile.
And then my four and a halfyear old came in and my partner
was like guess what?
The baby was born and his lookwas like utter shock and
(01:07:45):
confusion.
And he's like what?
No, we're like yeah and he'slike no.
And then he saw the baby and hewas like this is crazy.
But then he was in love.
You know, it was the best.
The first baby, I didn't planfor postpartum, I only planned
(01:08:06):
for the birth.
I hardly did that really.
The third baby, all I did wasplan for postpartum.
So I like had a meal train andI made everybody in the family
very clear.
I was like I'm not leaving thehouse for 40 days, so I'm not
like driving the kids to schoolor doing any of this.
(01:08:28):
So I just like set it up reallyreally well.
And it was amazing.
My other two kids were winterbabies and, oh my god, like a
spring summer baby is so nice.
Just the sunshine, sunshine.
I could just put him in thecarrier in my pajamas and walk
(01:08:52):
out the door.
No like having to bundle.
And it was my favoritepostpartum.
I think you definitelyappreciate the postpartum period
more when it's when you havemore kids.
Newborns are so useful, they'reso easy.
The first kid you're like, ohmy god, newborns are so hard.
(01:09:15):
And then, with the period, I'mjust like this is so nice, this
is so nice.
Newborns are my favorite people.
I just want to smell them andwatch them.
I love newborn babies.
Angela (01:09:29):
Oh my gosh, I cannot agree more.
Hanging out with newborns isthe best and, yeah, the chaos of
like toddlers and olderchildren, which is so much fun
too, but yeah, like that newbornjust hits a little different
right it's a little different,right?
Molly (01:09:51):
yeah, and then.
So then, two days after he wasborn, I already kind of said but
I put him in the stretchy wrap.
I just had like a soft nursingbra, put him on the stretchy
wrap and sat in the third rowwith him in the stretchy wrap
carrier to drive to get therogam shot.
I didn't take him out of thestretchy wrap until we got home.
So I because I think my biggestthing with getting the rogam
(01:10:17):
shot was I was like I don't wantto leave my house with a
newborn baby.
But we just did it in such achill, easy way.
It was like nothing.
You know, I had to get into thecar and I had to get out of the
car, walk into a room, get ashot in my butt and got right
(01:10:41):
back in the car.
It like we made it so easy.
So I think if it had been anymore of a hassle I wouldn't have
done it.
But I just had it lined up insuch a way that there were no
questions asked.
Angela (01:10:58):
We just walked in, got the shot and left yeah, that's
so great you were able to dothat.
Molly (01:11:05):
They like worked with you and yeah, yeah, yeah, and my
eldest son came and he was likereally sweet and yeah amazing.
Angela (01:11:15):
So now, at this point where you are, what are your
views in general like on birth,on supporting birth, and how
have they sort of changed, likefrom when you first started to
become pregnant and have babies?
Molly (01:11:29):
Yeah, I think I kind of went back to how I felt before I
did the Radical Birth KeeperSchool.
I went into the Radical BirthKeeper School because I wanted
to be an option for women thatneeded more options to choose
(01:11:50):
from.
You know, you can't make goodchoices if you don't have
options, and I think every birthis amazing so long as it's what
the woman wants.
You know there's no right orwrong choice so long as the
woman's getting what they want.
(01:12:10):
And I just want women to feelhappy about how their birth goes
.
I want them to feel respected,and I think a big part of women
feeling respected is likerespecting their choices and not
pushing certain ideas onto them.
(01:12:31):
I think that any time that yousay like this is the right way
or not, I'm very open to theidea that my beliefs are wrong,
and then it's not even that it'slike they're wrong, but what
might be good for one personisn't good for the other person.
You know, a free birth can befeeling for one person and
(01:12:54):
traumatic for another person.
My partner and I had somefriends that had a planned
hospital birth and their babycame very quickly and the dad
ended up catching the baby ontheir bathroom floor and we were
like that's so cool, that'samazing, like that's ideal,
(01:13:15):
that's awesome.
And they were like, no, thatwas terrifying for us Because it
wasn't what they wanted.
Angela (01:13:22):
Yeah, that's so, so important.
Like that, that point thatyou're making right there of
like just what one person mightview as amazing and awesome,
like it isn't right foreverybody and there is no one
size fits all, and that goesreally on both sides of like,
even with all of the things thatthey're pushing at the
hospitals, or like you know,like there's ideologies on both
(01:13:44):
sides and like important rightto tune into, like what each
woman wants and to meet them inthere when you're supporting and
and to push these, theseideologies and your own opinions
.
Like, yeah, like that's rightfor you, right, but finding that
like, yeah, being able tosupport women that choose things
that you would not choose.
Molly (01:14:04):
Yeah, so there's obviously there's no right way
to birth.
There's no right way to birthexcept for the way that is right
for that woman.
So now I'm not like, no, Iwon't go to the hospital.
I'm like, if that's what youwant, I want to do what you want
and I'll support you Because inthe long run, my views on birth
(01:14:30):
don't matter at all and theyshouldn't matter at all.
All that matters is what thebirthing woman wants.
Yeah, I'm still here to be anoption and yeah, I believe in
women's abilities to birth and Ibelieve that birth works and
(01:14:57):
sometimes stuff happens and wedon't know.
You know, I think blanketstatements in birth, blanket
statements don't belong in thebirth world.
They don't really belong inlife in general.
Nothing is 100% true.
Angela (01:15:16):
Yeah, I completely agree .
Well, thank you so much, Molly,for taking the time to chat
with me today and share yourstory.
Molly (01:15:25):
Thank you.
It was really nice to talk toyou.
Thank you so much.
Angela (01:15:31):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first-time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
labor of love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(01:15:53):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(01:16:13):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
home birth options are very limited.
So I was listening to thepodcast, you know, getting all
the ads for the Radical BirthKeeper School, all the like open
house zoom calls with past RBKgrads.
I was doing all those and thenI signed up thinking I would
(00:25):
still be a doula, I would stilldo hospital births, but I wanted
to be an option.
That was just my goal, Likelet's have more options.
But then I think when I wastaking the Radical Birth Keeper
School which at the time that Idid it was a three month long
(00:46):
program and we had two or threetwo hour calls a week is a lot
more than I think it is now.
But when I was doing it, therereally became I want to say
sense, but not like a sense it's.
There really became I want tosay sense, but not like a sense
it's being a doula was made toseem like very evil and that you
(01:12):
were just complicit in women'storture and abuse and it made me
feel like being a doula was abad thing.
Angela (01:26):
I'm Angela and I'm a certified birth photographer,
experienced doula, childbirtheducator and your host here on
the my Maine Birth podcast.
This is a space where we sharethe real life stories of
families and their unique birthexperiences in the beautiful
state of Maine, from our state'sbiggest hospitals to birth
center births and home births.
(01:47):
Every birth story deserves tobe heard and celebrated.
Whether you're a soon to be mom, a seasoned mother or simply
interested in the world of birth, these episodes are for you.
Welcome back.
You're listening to episode 124of my Main Birth.
This week I'm doing something alittle bit different and I'm
(02:09):
chatting with some of thefriends that I met at the Free
Birth Society's MatriBirthMidwifery Institute, or what
started as the MatriBirthMidwifery Institute.
I do want to say in thebeginning of all of these
episodes that I very muchsupport a woman's right to birth
where, how and with whoever shechooses.
(02:31):
These episodes are more tohighlight the separation of the
beautiful idea of free birth,which can be a perfectly fine
option for many women, from theideologies that are promoted by
the company, the Free BirthSociety.
Today's birth story guest isMolly, and she is here to share
all about her three beautifulbirth stories and her journey
through the Radical Birth KeeperSchool and the MatriBirth
(02:52):
Midwifery Institute.
All right, hi Molly.
Welcome to my Main Birth.
Hi so, to get started, would youshare a little bit about you
and your family?
Molly (03:06):
Yeah, so we live on Martha's Vineyard, massachusetts
.
I was a flower farmer for 10years before having kids and
taught some yoga.
Having kids, I just stoppedflower farming and was just
teaching yoga and then, after mysecond son, then I got into
(03:30):
birth work and did a doulatraining my partner's a
commercial fisherman, and that,I feel like, is a job and a
whole lifestyle.
My parents live on the island,the partner's family lives on
the island siblings living onthe island so we have a nice big
(03:56):
family here, which is reallynice.
I can't imagine raising kidswithout extended family.
Angela (04:00):
Amazing, yeah, so nice to have everybody close together
.
Yeah, amazing, yeah, so nice tohave everybody close together.
Molly (04:07):
Yeah Would you share a little bit about, like what your
views were on birth growing up,maybe like some stories that
you heard.
Plug my ears and be like Idon't want to hear that.
Yeah, and my mom just had threeunmedicated small hospital
(04:33):
births and she was like it'sintense and you just do it.
That's just like what women aremade to do you just do it and
then, as soon as the baby's out,it's over and that's it.
So I wasn't that interested inbirth before, would you say you
were maybe like fearful of birth, or what were your feelings?
(04:55):
around it.
I think maybe not so much fearas much as like being grossed
out, I think, at the time, likebeing grossed out, I think at
the time I was like that's likepushing a watermelon out, that's
crazy, and I just didn't wantto think about it.
(05:15):
And so, as I said, I was flowerfarming, which was beautiful,
just out, in a giant field offlowers, with you know six or 10
other women, all of which wereolder than me, at least to begin
with, and you know they tenother women, all of which were
older than me, at least to beginwith, and you know they were
having babies, and it was justso beautiful.
And one woman that I workedwith was like you need to just
watch a birth video, because I'dnever seen one.
(05:38):
And I remember watching myfirst birth video and being like
that.
That was intense, that wasamazing, and I'm probably never
gonna watch another birth videoagain.
Flash forward, you know, now Iprobably watch a birth video
every single day.
So then, when I got pregnantwith my first, first son, I was
(06:02):
24.
And I wanted to have a homebirth, but on the island there
was only one home birth midwifeat the time, who that I knew we
worked on the same farm when wewere younger and she was
(06:25):
pregnant.
We're having our babies like acouple months apart, so she
wasn't available and then theonly other option was getting a
midwife from off island to comeand you'd have to find them
housing.
It just sounded like too muchfor me to wrap my head around at
the time to figure that out.
(06:46):
So I had my first son at thesmall hospital on the island and
when I was pregnant with him Ireally didn't want to do any
research on birth.
I didn't want to psych myselfout.
So the only thing I did toprepare for that birth was my
(07:07):
mother-in-law gave me a reallyold copy of Spiritual Midwifery
and I didn't even read it, Ijust would look at the pictures
a lot, and that book has somereally beautiful birth pictures,
just like ecstatic, joyfulfaces.
And it was a very smoothpregnancy, very smooth birth.
(07:35):
And we went in and I was likeman, I might, I might be in
labor.
I was having, you know, losingmy mucus plug and I was like I
might be in labor.
I was having, you know, losingmy mucus plug and I was like I
might be in labor.
Let's just go get checked.
And I went in and they're likeyou're six centimeters and like
(07:56):
you're gonna stay.
So my partner went back, gotour stuff and we just labored
alone in the hospital, just meand him, and there's a birth
pool, and it felt really doable,which surprised me.
And I remember I think this islike the moment I fell in love
with birth.
(08:16):
I had gone a cervical check andI was like nine centimeters.
I was like, oh, we're likethere, this is like almost over
and it hasn't been bad, it'sbeen great.
And I had this realization.
I was just I.
(08:38):
All I've been doing isbreathing and moving my body
intuitively and I was like thisis yoga, this is what I've been
doing my whole life, this isjust the world's best yoga
practice, and that one is when Ireally fell in love with birth.
(08:58):
And then, after he was born, Istarted to research birth and I
started to become obsessed withbirth podcasts and listening to
birth stories, asking womentheir birth stories.
So that was a big pivot for howI thought about and felt about
(09:21):
birth.
I went from being kind of likegrossed out, didn't want to hear
about it, to just beingcompletely fascinated and I just
like saw every womandifferently.
I feel like I saw the world.
I was like you gave birth.
That's incredible.
I was like everyone that has akid gave birth.
(09:41):
My mind was like blown.
I was.
That is like the most amazingthing ever and everyone does it.
Angela (09:49):
Yeah, it's so cool.
It really really is.
I love that story.
That's such a beautiful storyand yeah, it's like wait a
minute, it's not.
It's not gross, it's not allthat bad.
This is so awesome.
Yeah, yeah.
So how was your postpartum withhim?
Molly (10:05):
So awesome, yeah, yeah.
So how was your postpartum withhim?
It was pretty good.
I mean, I was 25 when he wasborn.
I just turned 25.
And, like most people, when youhave your first you don't
prepare for postpartum.
But I feel like I was justyoung and healthy.
So I healed pretty quickly andright away was kind of wanting
(10:26):
to go out and like do all themom things with my baby.
And then at three months Iwould say I crashed and I was
just like called my parents,like you need to come watch the
baby, like I need to sleep.
So the sleep deprivation reallycaught up with me then and then
I started to slow down and napwhen he napped and um, yeah, but
(10:52):
it was great, I on the island.
There are so many resources forbabies and toddlers.
There's like different freeplay groups every single day, so
it was fun.
It was fun to like become a momand get to do all those things.
They had a they still have amother's group called Baby's
(11:15):
First Year and back then theydid it twice a week and I went
twice a week for a year.
So I was just love chattingwith other moms and hearing
other people's birth stories.
Angela (11:30):
Yeah, finding that community is so special, yeah,
so how did you find out you werepregnant for the second time?
Molly (11:42):
We planned to start trying again when my first son
was two and then the secondcycle got pregnant and, yeah,
there wasn't really much, muchto it.
Um, with both my pregnancies, Iwill say, I was super sick.
(12:04):
My mom was sick in herpregnancies and my sister was
sick in her pregnancies for thefirst 20 weeks.
So, being sick with the firstkid, I had to like quit my job
and just spend three months inthe dark.
And then with the second kid,you know, I'm like going to
(12:26):
toddler art class and puking andI'm just like it's okay.
Okay, I would carry a mason jarwith me in between my legs when
I drove because I would puke,as I was, and my two year old
was was like in the back, like Ineed my puke pot, mommy, and
(12:47):
then he would fake puke.
But other than that, thepregnancy went really well.
Um, again, there was no homebirth midwife on the island and
I was way more confident aboutgiving birth this time.
I spent the last two yearslistening to birth stories and I
(13:11):
was like, yeah, we'll just goback to the hospital again.
And he also just had a quick,easy, very straightforward
hospital birth.
Very straightforward hospitalbirth.
Um, but this time before wewent to the hospital, I was kind
(13:32):
of laboring in the tub a littlebit and I just had the thought
like if I could do whatever Iwanted to do which obviously I
could have, what I would wouldhave wanted to I was like what
if I just stayed here?
What if I just never got out ofthe bathtub and I just stayed,
I was home alone If I juststayed home alone in the bathtub
(13:54):
.
But instead of doing that, wepacked up and went to the
hospital.
He was born a few hours laterand the hospital didn't do
anything wrong.
I was just a little annoyed thistime.
I was like don't do that, Idon't want that.
I wasn't scared of birth, Iguess.
(14:16):
So I was just kind of annoyedby all the unnecessary things
that they were doing, and itwasn't like a bad experience, I
just didn't want to be there.
So at that birth, after thatbirth, I was like well, the next
one is definitely going to beborn at home.
And I think during that laborwith my second son, I had this
(14:42):
seed of like I don't actuallywant anyone there with me.
Had you discovered free birthsociety at this point?
Yeah.
(15:04):
So I second son was born inNovember 2019.
So I started listening to thepodcast probably around 2018,
after the first season.
I probably started during thesecond season of the podcast and
(15:26):
I love the stories you know,and so I guess I did have that
seed in my head already, likebefore I went into labor with my
second son, but I wasn't evenreally connecting the two.
I wasn't like, oh, next time Iwant to have a free birth.
I was just like what I wouldlike, based on what I know about
(15:49):
myself and how I feel the mostcomfortable is, I would like to
be alone, cause I like a prettyathletic person, I really like
movement is my medicine and Ilike running, but I only like
(16:10):
running by myself and I lovedoing yoga, just totally alone.
And I know that for me, inorder to like go deep, I need to
be totally alone, to be totallyalone.
(16:33):
After my second son was born, athis birth, my partner's cousin
had just done a doula trainingand she volunteered to be our
doula for free and we were like,yeah, sure, great Things went
really well the first time, butthere was like a couple of times
my partner had to like go backand get our stuff and I got an
IV, the hep lock, put in when hewas gone and it took like two
(16:56):
hours.
That was probably the worst partof the labor was that they
couldn't get the needle in.
They couldn't get the needle in, and at the first birth he
really wanted a cup of coffeebut he couldn't go get one.
So I was like sure, like shecan be our doula and she can
(17:16):
just like get a cup of coffee,and like there's an annoying
nurse, she can kind of like keepthem out of our space, and I
didn't really think much aboutit.
But then after the birth I waslike she didn't have to do much,
but just having her there,having somebody else kind of in
(17:40):
our team that didn't work forthe hospital and that was just
there for us, made a hugedifference, and so that made me
start to think about becoming adoula and then I did a really
great doula training in WesternMass.
(18:00):
It was a very small four-daytraining with a home birth
midwife and after that I likevolunteered to do some free
births and I did a few freebirths and fell in love like
after I was going home after thefirst birth.
You're just like this, is it?
It doesn't get better than this.
(18:22):
I cannot imagine anything thatwould be more fulfilling to do,
and so from that point on I waslike totally sold.
That was it.
And then I started to look intoFree Birth Society's Radical
Birth Keeper School, because onon the island there's just not
(18:47):
many options.
We have a very small hospital.
It's more like a birth center Iwould say.
They do c-sections but theydon't do anything high risk and
there's only one home birthmidwife and she travels.
So people are very, verylimited in their options.
(19:08):
Nobody wants to go off to givebirth and home birth options are
very limited.
So I was listening to thepodcast, you know, getting all
the ads for the Radical BirthKeeper School, all the open
house Zoom calls with past RBKgrads.
(19:30):
I was doing all those and thenI signed up, thinking I would
still be a doula, I would stilldo hospital births, but I wanted
to be an option.
That was just my goal.
Let's have more options.
But then I think when I wastaking the Radical Birth Keeper
(19:55):
School, which at the time that Idid it was a three-month long
program and we had two or threetwo-hour calls a week, it was a
lot more than I think it is now,but when I was doing it, there
really became, I want to say,sense, but not like a sense.
(20:16):
It's.
Being a doula was made to seemlike very evil and that you were
just complicit in women'storture and abuse and it made me
feel like being a doula was abad thing, like you're heroing
(20:38):
and you're just, you know,holding a woman down while she's
being raped, as Emily says.
I think my views have changed alot, or maybe not changed, but
just gone back to what they werebefore.
So you know, I like took downon my Instagram page it was like
deleted doula.
(20:58):
And then I was a radical birthkeeper and you know people would
ask me to go to their hospitalbirth and I'd be like I don't go
to the hospital and now Ireally don't think that my
personal opinion on birth shouldmatter to anyone but myself
like my views on birth don'tmatter.
(21:19):
When I'm working with a woman,all that matters are her views
and what she wants.
My personal opinion onlymatters in my births.
Yeah, I then was like working asa birth keeper, doing coaching
and attending births, and so Idid the radical birther program
(21:44):
in 2022, spring 2022.
Then I signed up for theLighthouse.
I was in the Lighthouse forthree years.
I did the Blood MysteriesSchool, which was great with
Kristen and Nancy.
There was a lot of content inthat program because they
(22:06):
created it.
I went to the Matriarch RisingFestival in 2023.
And then I got pregnant with mythird son.
Angela (22:17):
When you went to Matriarch Rising, did you go
with your kids?
Molly (22:30):
go with your kids or no.
I kind of thought about it alittle bit.
I drove and it was a long drive, so I kind of played around
with the idea and then I, once Igot there, I was like, oh,
thank god I didn't bring them.
Um, at the time my kids werelike I don't, three and six or
something, or maybe I could havebrought them.
(22:51):
They were young enough that Icould have brought them.
I went there and I did not seeany little boy over a year and a
half old.
It wouldn't have been the rightvibe, like they would have been
sneaking into the woods to likechop a tree down and yeah.
So I didn't bring them, I justwent by myself, which was like
(23:13):
the first time I'd been awayfrom them for a night and I was
gone for 10 days Whirlwind trip.
But when I was there I kind offelt like the whole thing was
just like marketing for the nextyears.
You know there's lots ofphotographers, lots of people
taking videos for social media,but it was nice to meet women
(23:35):
that I'd met through the RadicalBirth Keeper School and through
the Blood Mystery School and inthe Lighthouse.
It was nice to meet women thatI'd only seen through the blood
mystery school and in thelighthouse, so it's nice to meet
women that I'd only seenthrough the phone yeah, yeah,
exactly what were your thoughtsafter leaving the festival?
(23:57):
nothing really too enlightening.
It was a little underwhelming.
Angela (24:01):
I think so was that the first time you started to kind
of see like the free birthSociety and like a little bit of
a new light.
Molly (24:09):
No, I would say that even when I signed up for the
Radical Birth Keeper School, Iwas not super enchanted by Emily
and Yolanda super enchanted byEmily and Yolanda, so I wasn't
(24:31):
really surprised by how thingsseemed a little like
disingenuine.
Angela (24:33):
Yeah, so did you give birth to your third baby before
you started MMI, or what was thetimeline there?
Molly (24:41):
I signed up for MMI like a few weeks before he was born.
Sign up was like May 20th andhe was born June 15th.
Angela (24:54):
Oh, my goodness, okay.
So when did you find out youwere pregnant for the third time
?
And, yeah, like, what were yourthoughts in choosing your care
when you found out?
Molly (25:11):
So before I was even got pregnant with him, I knew I
would have a free birth.
I was like deep in the world,deep at that point.
So that was just a given, thatwas like not a thought that
needed, that I needed to have,like I knew that I wanted to
birth alone so how was thatlooking?
it was, you know, pretty good.
(25:31):
I had two other kids that werekeeping me busy.
I, luckily, was not quite assick as I was with the other two
.
I was only sick for like 12weeks and I was teaching yoga
and like hadn't told anyone Iwas pregnant yet.
(25:52):
So it was like all my classeswere just a little easier than
they used to be.
But yeah, it was good.
It was a really nice, easypregnancy.
It was really nice to justfully listen to myself in
pregnancy, you know, like doingthings like eating raw oysters
(26:15):
and sushi not a big deal at all,and I knew, you know I live on
an island, like I know the fishis good but just doing things
that maybe I would have secondguessed myself about previously.
I was not listening to anybodyelse's opinion, I was just doing
what felt right for me.
(26:35):
I was staying active and eatingwhatever I wanted to eat,
wanted to eat.
It was a great pregnancy.
I was seeing a craniosacraltherapist that I'd been seeing
since I was.
I started seeing him when I waspregnant with my eldest son and
(26:57):
my sister's an acupuncturist.
So I had some appointments withher and when I was like still
deep in being sick, I saw anaturopath and I got IV fluids
with B vitamins and that wasreally nice, like I feel like if
(27:22):
you stay hydrated you don't getas sick, and just getting the
IV fluids I felt good for liketwo days after that throughout
(27:47):
my pregnancy.
And that I was spending a lotof time thinking about was that
I'm RH negative.
And I was spent a lot of timeresearching and thinking about,
if I wanted to, how would I dothat if I was free birthing?
And so I read Sarah Wickham'sbook Auntie D Explained, and I
(28:12):
listened to some podcasts anddid some research and I really
was just going back and forth onit until after he was born,
asking about it in thelighthouse, you know, wanting to
hear other people's what theydid.
And I ended up calling theOBGYN's office and telling them
(28:39):
that I was having a home birth,that I was pregnant and I was
going to hire a midwife.
And they're like well, whatmidwife are you hiring?
And I'm like well, I'm notgoing to tell you that.
And they're like okay, well,yeah, you can have a home birth.
But if anything goes wrong andyou come to the hospital, we're
putting you on a helicopter andwe're flying you to the mainland
.
And I'm like, okay, well, if Icome in because something's
(29:04):
wrong, like it would besomething really wrong and you
probably would have to put me ona helicopter and fly me there
Like I'm not going to come inunless I need to go on a
helicopter.
And they're like, okay, well,we just had to say that.
And then I was talking to themabout, you know, I'm working
with the home birth midwife.
They obviously can't give methe RhoGAM shot.
(29:25):
And they're like, well, you'dhave to establish care with us.
And I'm like, well, I've, youknow, been a patient in the past
.
You have all my information.
I'm not going to come and do anhour and a half intake.
Either we make it easy or I'mjust not going to get it.
And like this is something thatyou are saying I need, but I
(29:49):
don't feel like I need it.
So, unless it's easy, I'm justnot going to do it.
And there was a lot more to itthan this.
It was like first I had to talkto a nurse and I'm like I know
you can't answer my questionsLike I want to speak to this
doctor because I know he's theonly one that can make this
happen, and it was just kind ofinteresting to not be aggressive
(30:15):
or defensive and just be likethis is what I want and this is
how I'm willing to do it, and ifyou can't do it this way, I'm
just not going to do it and likethat's fine.
And eventually they were like,okay, we can do it.
They just kind of needed me tosay, okay, I understand, I'm not
(30:39):
going to do it that way, but Iwill do it this way.
So they kind of knew we ended uphaving it that after I gave
birth you're supposed to get theroad game shot within 72 hours
of giving birth.
Um, that if I ended up decidingI wanted it, I would just call
the office and they would get mein for an appointment that day.
(31:01):
Call the office and they wouldget me in for an appointment
that day.
So I didn't I still was justgoing back and forth.
I did end up getting the shottwo days after he was born and
it was super chill.
I went into the office with mypartner and my oldest son.
I had the baby in the babycarrier the whole time.
We were in and out in 15minutes Like I walked in, got
(31:24):
the shot and left.
I didn't have to do anything.
It was super easy.
Angela (31:28):
That's awesome, that's so accommodating, that really,
and I think that's one of thebiggest things.
Like when you're listening tothe podcast and you're in the
memberships, it's like don't doanything with the medical system
, otherwise all of these badthings will happen, and it's
(31:49):
like well, is that?
Molly (31:49):
true, maybe, yes, in some cases it absolutely can be, but
in a lot of cases it you knowit's not and it's totally fine.
So, yeah, and especially if yougo into it like they're gonna
attack me, they're gonna be rude, they're not going to be
helpful, how dare they, afteryou hear all these things, like
you're gonna go in defensive?
And if you go in defensive andaggressive, that's how people
are gonna come back towards you.
So I'm just like killing withkindness and I got kindness in
(32:13):
return yeah, exactly and yeah,and I really didn't make up my
mind until two days after givingbirth and what.
What ended up I was like I'mnot going to regret getting the
road game shot.
I got it with my other kids.
I never had any sort of sideeffects or anything, and but
(32:36):
there's a chance I would regretnot getting it.
So for me, not getting it, sofor me, that was my decision and
I don't think there's any rightdecision.
The more you research the Rogamshot, the more it's like we
(32:56):
don't know enough really to makean educated decision.
Because there hasn't beenenough research on it.
It's kind of unethical to dothe research.
So it's really, I think, just apersonal decision that
everybody has to make forthemselves.
Angela (33:10):
Yeah, absolutely so.
You signed up for MMI justbefore your youngest was born.
What were sort of your thoughtsin wanting to sign up for that
program at that point?
Molly (33:22):
for you yeah Well, I knew that the program was going to
start like not super long afterI'd have my third baby and I
thought it would be a reallygreat way to spend my time in
that first year postpartum, likeI'm going to be home a lot.
I knew from RBK that it was areally easy program to do on my
(33:51):
phone, like I can put the babyin the carrier and I can listen
to the videos.
I can do everything from myphone.
I just knew that the way it wasset up was convenient and I was
hoping that it would be a stepup from the radical birthkeeper
(34:13):
school.
Like I was thinking it wasgoing to be the next level, more
in depth, and I was thinking,because of their marketing, that
it was going to be really welldone.
Spoiler alert it was way worseThan RBK.
(34:35):
Way worse than RBK, way worsethan the blood mystery school
and all my own opinion, but alsoworse than the complete guide
to free birth yeah.
Angela (34:47):
So when you started going through the program, at
what point did you start to belike, oh, what did I do?
Molly (34:56):
well it started with.
The first three months were alljust the tools, which is really
just Emily teaching somethingthat somebody else created, what
the Conscious Leadership Groupcreated, going through that book
and doing their activities.
I'm not a huge fan of the tools.
(35:19):
I find there's definitelybenefit in them, but we'd
already gone over the tools inRBK.
It was kind of a more in-depthrefresher but I was like come on
, let's get to the good stuff.
And in there there were someresources, but all the resources
that they provided were justthe conscious leadership groups
(35:41):
resources with like an MMI logo.
But then once the birth quarterstarted, that's when I was like,
oh, this is thrown together.
They're making this up as theygo, they're recording these
videos as they go.
There are no resources.
(36:03):
Um, there's no visuals, nohandouts.
It was all over the place.
So it was in that quarter thatI was like, oh, this feels like
a scam, like this is not welldone.
I kept saying to myself and tomy partner.
(36:24):
I was like if only they put asmuch time and effort into the
course curriculum as they did inthe marketing materials, then
it could have been an okayprogram.
But they put no effort into thecourse but they put no effort
into the course.
Angela (36:44):
Yeah, it was like they're selling the course, and
then we'll just see how thingsgo as we go.
Molly (36:48):
Yeah, and then it's like you bought the course, we have
your money, we won't give you arefund.
We have it in writing that wedon't give refunds.
So what's anybody supposed todo?
All they need to do is havegood marketing.
They don't even need to delivera good course.
Angela (37:05):
they already had everybody's money yeah, it was
intense seeing the courselacking so much in any real
knowledge, and then the livecalls also seemed very just
unorganized, unprepared and justkind of rambling.
Molly (37:24):
Yeah, oh yeah, rambling about their own lives.
You know, like let's just get60 women to listen to you
rambling about whatever's goingon in their life at the time,
and and they weren't very kind Ithink one of the things that I
(37:48):
probably ended up getting kickedout of the school for was that
throughout my time in the FreeBear Society, I really noticed
Emily like using the toolsagainst women, because that was
like her language, you know, andshe was teaching it.
So nobody can speak and use andmanipulate the tools for their
(38:16):
own like benefit as well as shecan.
So she, I think, would use thetools to gaslight and manipulate
women.
That's just my own personalopinion and what I thought I was
seeing, but it didn't feel goodto witness.
Angela (38:36):
Yeah, it sort of was more of like what you said that
you had felt when you had firststarted the RBK school with the
we.
I'm a doula, but like all ofthese things, it's like doula is
a bad thing, you know, and it'sjust more of that kind of like
mean girl energy, I guess I feelit kind of keeps coming up for
me.
Molly (38:54):
Oh, yeah, yeah, mean girl , energy and Emilia, you know, I
used to kind of defend her in away where people would be like,
oh, she's like a mean girl andI'd be like, yeah, and she's
like open about it, at least shelike admits that.
You know she'll be like, yeah,mean girl is one of my personas.
(39:14):
But then more and more Istarted to realize in a lot of
different ways they'll kind ofout themselves and then use that
to their benefit, especiallyeven with, like people call us a
cult and yeah, we're, you know,like people will use the
(39:36):
language that people are thengoing to use against them to
their own benefit, then going touse against them to their own
benefit.
Angela (39:44):
It's like say the word before anybody else does.
Yeah, totally so.
How were you, how are thingslooking Like?
What were your thoughts as theyear went on?
Molly (39:54):
Well, it was all kind of quick.
I'd never been on Reddit beforeand I think somebody in the
there was a WhatsApp group chatwith students from the course
maybe like 30 or 40 students andI think somebody in there
(40:16):
commented about it and they'relike I don't know, have you seen
what's on Reddit?
Angela (40:20):
So I went on Reddit and started reading it a little bit,
but before that even theWhatsApp group was created
because women were all startingto talk about how lacking in
content the program was.
I think was how we had startedtalking Right.
And then yeah, so you saw thelink.
Yeah, yeah.
Molly (40:56):
So even you know, before that, towards the end of the
birth course, I remember we hada pod call and we were supposed
to put this together because wedidn't talk about the hormones
of birth in the course at all.
And people were like I didn'tlearn all this stuff, like when
was I supposed to have learnedthat?
(41:18):
Because I don't know that.
Learn that, because I don'tknow that.
And so there started to be alot of discussion among students
about how lacking the coursematerial was and yeah,
discussion in the WhatsApp groupand yeah, maybe Reddit was
posted in there.
I saw that.
(41:40):
And then on a Wednesday therewas a Zoom call for students
that wanted to talk about theschool and how lacking the
course curriculum was, and I wason that call with probably 30
(42:02):
other students, so I was like atleast a third of the students
in the school and a lot ofpeople were speaking up.
I was one of them and I saidsome things in the WhatsApp chat
.
Like there were a few studentsthat organized the call and I
(42:22):
was saying, like good for you,I'm not surprised that the
course material is lacking, like, but good for you.
And then we had class on Fridayand after class on Friday I got
an email that I had beenremoved from the course did you
get something along the lineslines of what you're not a good
(42:44):
fit, or was it like something?
Angela (42:45):
Oh yeah?
Molly (42:47):
It was basically, I think , like a copy and paste of what
the other women had gotten and,you know, I said like a few
things.
Looking back I'm like I can'teven remember exactly what I
said, but I didn't feel likeanything that I said was worse
than what the other.
You know, a lot of other womenin the call were saying, and the
(43:13):
three women that organized thecall, I guess, were kicked out.
And I was kicked out and atfirst I was like, is this a
mistake?
Did they think I helpedorganize the call?
I was just shocked, I didn'tunderstand what, and it was like
a copy and paste of the emailthat they'd gotten.
(43:34):
So there's no explanation oflike you said this in the
WhatsApp chat.
That was, you know, supposed tobe a private chat.
So somebody else in the schoolmust have taken a screenshot of
something that I said or, youknow, made a screen recording of
the WhatsApp call and sent thatto Emily, and my first reaction
(44:00):
was just like confused, shock.
I immediately mailed them back,like, replied to the email
kicking me out, like I am sosorry, please explain to me what
I did, and I never, ever, got aresponse to this day.
Angela (44:21):
And wow, I was just for RBK, after you had paid to be in
the memberships, after you hadpaid for blood mystery school,
after you had paid for MMI.
Molly (44:32):
Not even a response just totally erased, deleted from
everything, lost the coursecurriculum for MMI, for RBK, for
blood mystery school, lostaccess to the lighthouse, like
everything.
And eventually I did the mathand over a four year period I
(44:54):
paid $20,000.
And I didn't even get an emailresponding telling me why I was
kicked out.
Angela (45:04):
When, ultimately, we're like in this group, trying to be
like, are we ever going tolearn any information about
midwifery or around midwifery,which this course is called the
Matriberth Midwifery Institute,and the tagline was the world's
leading sovereign midwiferyschool, which it did not turn
out to be.
Molly (45:27):
Right.
And so the first 24 hours I wasin shock.
Then I was like if I was in anyother program, any other school
and I was discussing the coursecurriculum, I was like upset
with the content, maybe upsetwith the way that the teachers
(45:49):
were treating other students,there would have been a
conversation, you know, therewould have been some sort of
conversation and I doubt I wouldhave been kicked out without a
conversation and a warningBecause I was in the call.
I was like I'm not going to askfor a refund, I'm not going to
(46:12):
do any of this stuff, I think Isaid in the call.
I was like I'm not so concernedabout what has already happened
, I'm more concerned about howthe school is going to be going
forward, because there had beenfour mentors, four of the like
teachers basically in the schoolhad left.
Angela (46:36):
Right at the same time.
So there was a lot of unfolding.
They didn't leave like one andthe other, like they all left at
the same time and there was noexplanation.
They were just like don't askwhy they all left like just keep
going.
Molly (46:47):
Yeah, so that was like a part of why we were having.
The call was like why did youknow?
It was like four teachers,maybe a speaker.
Why are all these women thatare like part of the leadership
in the school all leaving at thesame time?
That was a part of theleadership in the school all
leaving at the same time.
That was a part of thediscussion that we were having
(47:08):
and that's when I was like, oh,maybe this is a little culty,
like if I was just in a schooland I'd question the teachers
and the curriculum, I wouldn'thave been kicked out, totally
erased without any explanationor warning at all.
Angela (47:27):
Yeah, so what were your thoughts after that, as
everything else started tounfold and more women started to
leave the community?
Molly (47:35):
Yeah, it was a lot.
So in the lighthouse that I wasin for three years.
So in the lighthouse that I wasin for three years after my son
was born my free birth son wasborn there were so many
stillbirths in the membershipand I was like what is going on?
(47:57):
It was just one after the other, two in one week and it started
to be the same story kind ofplaying out.
It started to be really hard tolog into the membership and
(48:17):
witness the same time that I wasin MMI and the course
curriculum was just, you know,not even there.
There were all thesestillbirths and women getting
kicked out of the lighthouse.
So there's a lot of differentthings going on within free
birth society at the same time.
Angela (48:39):
Yeah, yeah.
So to back it up a little bit,after you first signed up, you
gave birth to your youngest.
How are things like kind oflooking leading up to when, like
your labor started and how wasyour birth?
Molly (48:54):
Yeah, his birth was amazing.
I like I wouldn't have wantedto change a single thing.
I loved it.
I thought he was going to beborn at like 37 weeks, so my
first was born at 39.
My second was born at 38.
So I was like, all right, we'retrending 37 now.
And there's a common saying inthe birth world that like expect
(49:16):
your pregnancy to go on longer.
I didn't do that and itactually kind of helped me
because when I was in like latethird trimester, I was like you
know, like four more weeks, it'sjust four more weeks, nope, no
problem.
And then, as each week came in,when I was like, whatever, I
(49:38):
can keep doing this, I startedto feel like I was living in a
bit of groundhog's day.
I didn't want to leave thehouse ever.
Roundhog's day, I didn't wantto leave the house ever.
So I was just doing the samething every day, like the kids
would go to school, I would likego for a long walk, take a bath
, pick some flowers, just likeeat, sleep, bathe, yeah.
(50:02):
And I just thought I was gonnagive birth at any time and I
didn't want to leave the house.
I felt really out of it, like Ifelt like I was drugged and I
didn't feel safe driving.
There was one day where I drovethe kids to school they go to
like a little homeschool groupand I made my husband come pick
(50:23):
me up.
So so I was like I don't feelsafe driving.
And then I was just cozy athome.
I had a friend came for a week.
She was going to like hang outwith the kids when I gave birth,
but she came and then had toleave.
(50:45):
He ended up being born at 41weeks and like a week before he
was born I lost some bloodymucus plug and thought, oh,
he'll be born and that didn'thappen.
And I was having like intenseyou know, braxton Hicks, we'll
call him because that's whatpeople know but just like
(51:05):
uterine tightening since 26weeks and I was just having
those consistent uterinetightenings all pregnancy so I
never really thought anythingabout that.
And then on June 14th I hadplans with my mom to get a
(51:26):
pedicure.
My sister in one of her birthsshe went, you know, a bit past
her 40-week date and my mom tookher to get a pedicure and she
went into labor when she wasgetting her nails done and like
left the salon and was like Ithink I'm in labor and had her
(51:49):
baby like an hour and 15 minuteslater.
And so my sister and I alwaysjoke that my mom really wants to
recreate that.
So she was like come on, likelet's go get a pedicure, and I
was like all right, and then Ijust really wasn't feeling it.
I was pretty tired.
I made my partner text my momand text my mom and cancel,
(52:13):
which I think should have beenlike a clear sign because I just
like couldn't even have themental capacity to text her that
I didn't want to go.
So I made him like text her orcall her to cancel.
And then not long after that Iwent pee and had more bloody
mucus and I was like, oh yeah,that's like why I couldn't
(52:39):
cancel, I guess.
And then around 5.30 pm I wentfor a walk and I went out.
We have like a big gate aroundour house and I went out one way
and started walking and I madeit like 150 feet and was just
(53:00):
had all this like blood and wetfluid.
And I'd walked by, a neighborTurned around.
I went back to our house, Ichanged my shorts, I put a pad
on and then I was like I can'tgo back out that way because I'm
gonna see our neighbor and he'sgonna be like why is she
wearing?
So I went out the other way.
(53:21):
I went for like a nice walk allby myself.
It was really beautiful.
I got home I picked some flowers.
I was having like uterinetightenings on the walk, but I'd
been having those so I wasn'tthinking anything about it, they
(53:43):
just felt very Bradsden Hickslike.
But every time I would have oneI'd be like, yes, please give
me more.
I want more, I want more ofthis.
Keep it coming.
And then I got home and Ipicked some roses for the altar.
I'd been at a birth altar and Ijust kept replacing the flowers
(54:09):
for like a month.
I just kept having to replacethe flowers and I was like what
flowers are gonna be on thisaltar when I give birth?
So it was like the lilacs andthen the false indigo and ended
up being roses when he was born.
And then I got home, picked theflowers, set up the altar, just
(54:33):
kept having more bloody mucusand fluids coming out.
And my partner and kids wantedto go fishing that night.
They wanted to go out squiddingand they had had this plan all
day that they were going to goout.
And they were going to go outafterding and they had had this
plan all day that they weregonna go out and they were gonna
go out after dinner.
But at dinner time I was likeyou guys can't go out and
they're like why?
(54:54):
I was like just don't, youcan't, um.
And they're like fine, I wasn'ttelling them anything.
That was going on, notconsciously, just like
protectively of my own space andmind.
And then at 930, I read the kidsto sleep and at 10, I went to
(55:19):
lay down in bed to go to sleepand I was just tossing and
turning, couldn't find acomfortable position, and about
an hour and a half later, at1140, I was like I really
haven't slept at all.
I've just been like rollingaround in bed, getting in all
sorts of like weird shapes withmy pillows, trying to get
(55:43):
comfortable.
And then I was was like let mejust see like I'm having all
these uterine tightening, so letme just see if there's like a
pattern to this.
So then I did some likehalf-assed timing and I had
about five sensations fiveminutes apart.
(56:04):
I was like, okay, this seemslike maybe these are real, but I
still like wasn't uncomfortableor anything.
I was like if this is actuallylabor, I want to go eat
something.
So I went downstairs and I madelike a gluten-free bagel with
(56:28):
ghee and I put dates and salt onit and I was like this is the
most delicious thing I've evereaten and I will put Bridgerton
on on my phone, which was justlike fun new season.
And I started watching it andwas just watching me and my
bagel and then, without evenrealizing it, I kept pausing the
(56:52):
show.
Every time I'd have a sensation, because I just needed to focus
, I couldn't listen to the show.
And then at 12 30 my middle sonwoke up.
He wakes up in the night a lotjust to go pee and he really
wanted me to be with him.
(57:13):
And at first I was like triedto get my husband who's like no,
I just want you.
I was like, all right, it'lljust be easier, I'll just go and
sit with him.
So I was like sitting next tohim and still just like moving
around.
I just can't get comfortable.
Still like in denial, I guess.
But not nothing was painful,just a little tightening.
(57:36):
And I was trying to think atthat time.
I was like you know, because asa doula you want to be able to
explain to people like what doearly labor sensations feel like
?
I was like what's thedifference between this and
Braxton Hicks?
And the only way I can describeit is like this feels a little
more sour, you know, a littlemore like in my back.
(58:00):
My back muscles feel like sour.
I was like I don't know whatthat means, but that that's what
it feels like, kind of likewhen you're getting your period
just a little like sour in myback.
So I sat with him for a littlebit.
He fell back asleep and then Iwas like okay, like this is
(58:23):
probably labor, but this couldrun forever.
So we'll just see.
I pulled out I had like a binfull of birth supplies, I lit a
few candles and then I had topoop.
So I went, I pooped and then Iwas like all right, like still,
(58:44):
this could go on forever, butI'm not going to be able to fall
asleep right now.
So I ran a bath.
So at 1.15 in the morning I gotin the bath and I put on some
birth affirmations that werepretty corny and I was kind of
like laughing at myself forlistening to them.
(59:06):
That were pretty corny, and Iwas kind of like laughing at
myself for listening to them.
And but then I was going backand forth between sitting on the
toilet and pooping and being inthe tub and then my partner
came in at one point because heheard the bath running and like
probably heard me listening tosomething, and he just came in.
(59:26):
He brought me like my reallygiant thought water bottle, put
it down next to me and he justsat down on the floor in the
bathroom, which I thought wasperfect, like he didn't need to
say anything, he just kind ofwas like there.
But still I was like I don'treally need you here right now,
(59:46):
you can go back to sleep.
So he went back to bed and justlay there.
He was like I can't go back tosleep, so he just lay in bed.
And then I moved to the toiletand had a really strong
contraction and was like I can'tsit on the toilet.
(01:00:09):
So I got onto hands and kneeson the floor in the bathroom and
my water broke.
And then I, right after thathappened, like as it was
happening, I reached my fingersup like into my yoni just a
little bit, and I could feel apart of my cervix just like
(01:00:34):
stretched rubbery, almost likedolphin skin.
It was so cool.
And then in one second I couldfeel his head like a finger's
length away.
And then he just dropped fourinches down right onto my
perineum and it was so intense.
(01:00:54):
It went from like just boom.
I could feel his head drop andI was like oh shit.
I said oh shit.
I don't remember it, but mypartner heard it.
He heard me, I guess, likemoaning when I was on the toilet
.
So he went downstairs to thekitchen, washed his hands
(01:01:15):
because he was like I shouldhave clean hands, there's a baby
coming and I said, oh shit, Ifelt so much pressure on my
perineum.
I went from hands and knees tojust being on my knees, with my
knees a little closer together,and had a hand kind of holding
(01:01:37):
his head, kind of relieving someof the pressure, and then he
just flew out.
His whole body just flew out.
I had a hand on his headalready and then I just kind of
brought my other hand under hisbody and immediately brought him
onto my chest and was like, ohmy God, you're here.
(01:02:00):
I thought that was going to beso much longer.
That was so quick because I hadthis moment like right before
he was born.
That now, I know, is transition, where I was just like this is
intense, I don't know how muchlonger I can do this for.
Which was like the only timethat I was like wow, and then I
(01:02:24):
had that oh shit of like he isgoing to rip my perineum, but
then he just flew out like no,pushing nothing, he was just
there.
And then, in hindsight, ofcourse, I was like, oh, that was
so easy, like because Imentally was prepared to do that
for six more hours, to do thatfor six more hours.
(01:02:51):
And then he was just there andjust I was as I was like, oh my
God, you're here.
My partner opens up the door,because he was just right
outside the door and he was justperfect.
He was adorable, he was perfect.
One funny thing was that hedidn't open up his eyes for like
an hour, an hour and a half,after he was born.
So my partner and I were justlooking at him and we're like
(01:03:13):
he's perfect.
He just hasn't opened up hiseyes, so like he might not have
eyeballs, but he's perfect.
Other than that, like we don'teven care.
He did eventually open up hiseyes.
We don't even care.
He did eventually open up hiseyes, but he was just, you know,
perfect.
(01:03:33):
And so he was born at 1 52 AM.
And then I was just kind oflike sitting on the bathroom
floor.
I had one candle in thebathroom.
We kind of turned on anightlight so we could see him a
little more.
We're just hanging out watchinghim.
And then my placenta was bornyears ago after my second son
(01:03:58):
was born.
My second son was four and ahalf when my third son was born,
I got this cast iron enamelbedpan from a thrift store and I
was like this would be perfectfor a home birth.
So I put that onto some yogablocks and I sat on it and
(01:04:18):
birthed the placenta on there.
And then the placenta was bornat 2.35, so like 45 minutes
after he was born.
And again, there's just notmuch bleeding, anything.
There was nothing that made meever feel scared at all.
(01:04:42):
Everything went as well as itpossibly could, which doesn't
mean that like if there's, youknow, a little more bleeding and
it's going to take like maybe alittle more time, but that's
necessarily wrong.
But I was just so grateful thatthere was nothing that made me
(01:05:03):
doubt anything at all.
I felt so confident and safethe whole time.
So the placenta was born at2.35.
And then I just stayed in thebathroom and I nursed him.
And then we cut the cord at 3.20in the morning, an hour and a
(01:05:26):
half after he was born, becauseI had the Elden blood typing
card and I wanted to use thecord blood to test his blood
type.
I was like, well, if he's got anegative blood type, I don't
even need to think anymore aboutlike if I want to do the RhoGAM
(01:05:47):
shot or not.
And before I gave birth to himI made my partner learn how to
use the blood typing cards.
So he had to like prick his ownfinger and test it out.
So he was the expert and he Igot into bed with the baby, got
(01:06:08):
like so cozy there's.
You know, nothing better thanjust immediately getting cozy in
your own bed after giving birth.
It just like set, it's heaven.
And magically, you know, thetwo older boys were sleeping and
(01:06:30):
Arno did the blood type.
He had a positive blood typeand then we just all got in bed
and went to sleep.
And then the boys woke up in themorning and you know the looks
on their faces and theirreactions just priceless.
(01:07:01):
And he saw like some birthsupplies.
So I have like so many birthsupplies all the time so he
knows what birth supplies lookslike.
He's like oh, there's a pack ofChuck's pads.
And so he saw some birthsupplies, like some candles and
Chuck's pads.
When he left his room and hewas like, oh my God, I know the
baby was born.
(01:07:21):
And he came in and my partnerwas like guess what, what?
And he's like I know the babyand just was so happy, like huge
smile.
And then my four and a halfyear old came in and my partner
was like guess what?
The baby was born and his lookwas like utter shock and
(01:07:45):
confusion.
And he's like what?
No, we're like yeah and he'slike no.
And then he saw the baby and hewas like this is crazy.
But then he was in love.
You know, it was the best.
The first baby, I didn't planfor postpartum, I only planned
(01:08:06):
for the birth.
I hardly did that really.
The third baby, all I did wasplan for postpartum.
So I like had a meal train andI made everybody in the family
very clear.
I was like I'm not leaving thehouse for 40 days, so I'm not
like driving the kids to schoolor doing any of this.
(01:08:28):
So I just like set it up reallyreally well.
And it was amazing.
My other two kids were winterbabies and, oh my god, like a
spring summer baby is so nice.
Just the sunshine, sunshine.
I could just put him in thecarrier in my pajamas and walk
(01:08:52):
out the door.
No like having to bundle.
And it was my favoritepostpartum.
I think you definitelyappreciate the postpartum period
more when it's when you havemore kids.
Newborns are so useful, they'reso easy.
The first kid you're like, ohmy god, newborns are so hard.
(01:09:15):
And then, with the period, I'mjust like this is so nice, this
is so nice.
Newborns are my favorite people.
I just want to smell them andwatch them.
I love newborn babies.
Angela (01:09:29):
Oh my gosh, I cannot agree more.
Hanging out with newborns isthe best and, yeah, the chaos of
like toddlers and olderchildren, which is so much fun
too, but yeah, like that newbornjust hits a little different
right it's a little different,right?
Molly (01:09:51):
yeah, and then.
So then, two days after he wasborn, I already kind of said but
I put him in the stretchy wrap.
I just had like a soft nursingbra, put him on the stretchy
wrap and sat in the third rowwith him in the stretchy wrap
carrier to drive to get therogam shot.
I didn't take him out of thestretchy wrap until we got home.
So I because I think my biggestthing with getting the rogam
(01:10:17):
shot was I was like I don't wantto leave my house with a
newborn baby.
But we just did it in such achill, easy way.
It was like nothing.
You know, I had to get into thecar and I had to get out of the
car, walk into a room, get ashot in my butt and got right
(01:10:41):
back in the car.
It like we made it so easy.
So I think if it had been anymore of a hassle I wouldn't have
done it.
But I just had it lined up insuch a way that there were no
questions asked.
Angela (01:10:58):
We just walked in, got the shot and left yeah, that's
so great you were able to dothat.
Molly (01:11:05):
They like worked with you and yeah, yeah, yeah, and my
eldest son came and he was likereally sweet and yeah amazing.
Angela (01:11:15):
So now, at this point where you are, what are your
views in general like on birth,on supporting birth, and how
have they sort of changed, likefrom when you first started to
become pregnant and have babies?
Molly (01:11:29):
Yeah, I think I kind of went back to how I felt before I
did the Radical Birth KeeperSchool.
I went into the Radical BirthKeeper School because I wanted
to be an option for women thatneeded more options to choose
(01:11:50):
from.
You know, you can't make goodchoices if you don't have
options, and I think every birthis amazing so long as it's what
the woman wants.
You know there's no right orwrong choice so long as the
woman's getting what they want.
(01:12:10):
And I just want women to feelhappy about how their birth goes
.
I want them to feel respected,and I think a big part of women
feeling respected is likerespecting their choices and not
pushing certain ideas onto them.
(01:12:31):
I think that any time that yousay like this is the right way
or not, I'm very open to theidea that my beliefs are wrong,
and then it's not even that it'slike they're wrong, but what
might be good for one personisn't good for the other person.
You know, a free birth can befeeling for one person and
(01:12:54):
traumatic for another person.
My partner and I had somefriends that had a planned
hospital birth and their babycame very quickly and the dad
ended up catching the baby ontheir bathroom floor and we were
like that's so cool, that'samazing, like that's ideal,
(01:13:15):
that's awesome.
And they were like, no, thatwas terrifying for us Because it
wasn't what they wanted.
Angela (01:13:22):
Yeah, that's so, so important.
Like that, that point thatyou're making right there of
like just what one person mightview as amazing and awesome,
like it isn't right foreverybody and there is no one
size fits all, and that goesreally on both sides of like,
even with all of the things thatthey're pushing at the
hospitals, or like you know,like there's ideologies on both
(01:13:44):
sides and like important rightto tune into, like what each
woman wants and to meet them inthere when you're supporting and
and to push these, theseideologies and your own opinions
.
Like, yeah, like that's rightfor you, right, but finding that
like, yeah, being able tosupport women that choose things
that you would not choose.
Molly (01:14:04):
Yeah, so there's obviously there's no right way
to birth.
There's no right way to birthexcept for the way that is right
for that woman.
So now I'm not like, no, Iwon't go to the hospital.
I'm like, if that's what youwant, I want to do what you want
and I'll support you Because inthe long run, my views on birth
(01:14:30):
don't matter at all and theyshouldn't matter at all.
All that matters is what thebirthing woman wants.
Yeah, I'm still here to be anoption and yeah, I believe in
women's abilities to birth and Ibelieve that birth works and
(01:14:57):
sometimes stuff happens and wedon't know.
You know, I think blanketstatements in birth, blanket
statements don't belong in thebirth world.
They don't really belong inlife in general.
Nothing is 100% true.
Angela (01:15:16):
Yeah, I completely agree .
Well, thank you so much, Molly,for taking the time to chat
with me today and share yourstory.
Molly (01:15:25):
Thank you.
It was really nice to talk toyou.
Thank you so much.
Angela (01:15:31):
Before you go, I just want to remind you I have a ton
of resources for pregnancy andbirth.
If you're pregnant, whetheryou're a first-time mom or if
this is your fifth baby, I wantyou to check out the show notes,
because I have some freetrainings and free downloads
that you can sign up for, aswell as the link to access my
labor of love, a comprehensive,self-paced online childbirth
(01:15:53):
education course.
I created this coursespecifically for moms who don't
want to be told what to do,regardless of where you're
birthing or who you're birthingwith, and I'd honestly love to
teach you everything that I knowso that you can prepare for an
autonomous birth experience andprepare to step into your role
as the leader of your birthjourney.
(01:16:13):
So click to the show notes,check out all of those links and
, if you ever have any questions, feel free to DM me at my main
birth over on Instagram.
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