May 20, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when a deeply committed Baptist pastor with five biblical degrees begins to question everything he's been taught? Sun of Thunder's remarkable spiritual journey will challenge and inspire anyone who has ever felt constrained by religious dogma or wondered if there's more to divine connection than what traditional institutions offer.
Sun of Thunder is a gifted healer, clairvoyant and fledgling hoodoo practitioner who was ordained as a preacher of Free Will Baptist (FWB) church. Over time, FWB recognized Sun of Thunder's earnestness in religious educational pursuits, including reading interpretations of the Aramaic and Greek Bibles, and named him Christian Education Director for 27 churches. Eventual pushback on these pursuits coupled with the church's decisions to not aid the community when in dire need convinced Sun to walk a spiritual path away from FWB that better aligns with his truth about God and living in harmony with the world.
Details
Our guest takes us through the pivotal moments that transformed his spiritual path—from a near-fatal car accident where four mysterious hands pushed him back from certain death, to his rise as a respected pastor and Christian Education Director overseeing 27 churches. But beneath his successful ministry career, questions were brewing. Why weren't churches studying original biblical languages? Why did congregations refuse to help struggling neighbors during the housing crisis? And perhaps most troubling, why did spiritual experiences in nature feel more authentically divine than anything he experienced within church walls?
Sun of Thunder describes how a gentle breeze once provided profound healing during one of his darkest moments, and how this experience challenged everything he'd been taught about divine connection. "I received what I needed from nature itself and was able to go forward. So you can't tell me it's all about things in four walls," he explains. His journey eventually led him to explore ancestral veneration practices, creating space to honor those who loved him in life and continue to provide guidance beyond death.
The conversation delves into profound questions about power, control, and authentic spirituality. What happens when institutions position themselves as necessary intermediaries to God? How do we respectfully learn about diverse spiritual traditions without appropriation? And how do we find our own truth when it conflicts with established dogma?
If you've ever questioned your spiritual path or felt drawn to deeper connections with nature and ancestors, this episode offers both validation and inspiration. As Sun of Thunder reminds us, "There's a tribe for every single person. There's no such thing as truth until you decide what truth is for yourself."
References
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
Welcome to the Mystical Mermaid Lounge Podcast,
a space where all spiritualseekers are honored and
celebrated.
This podcast was born from thejourneys of your hosts, who have
each faced her own dark night ofthe sun, but they've emerged
with an unshakable belief indivine connection, cosmic
(00:29):
inspiration, and her true life'scalling.
Join us on a journey of personalgrowth, transformation and
magical self-discovery.
Your first co-host is ChloeBrown, a gifted intuitive empath
and shadow work life coach.
Your second co-host is KeoniStarr, an intuitive energy
(00:53):
worker and acclaimed past liferegressionist.
The Mystical Mermaid Loungepodcast starts now.
We are so happy to welcome ourguest, Son of Thunder.
(01:14):
You will be amazed at his storythat ultimately shows his
integrity, moral character,strength, and connection to
spirit.
Son of Thunder is a formerBaptist pastor and Christian
education director for 27churches.
He's here to talk to us abouthis experience as a pastor.
(01:37):
and why he ultimately left thechurch and decided to pursue
nature-based practices, voodoo,and venerating his ancestors.
Welcome, Son of Thunder.
We are so happy to have you withus.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
I'm excited to be here.
Glad to share.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
Thank you.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Tell us a little bit about
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
your background.
I'm an Eastern North Carolinian,Greenville, Kingston, Wilson
area.
So when I grew up, I'm close to50 years old.
It was dirt roads.
There wasn't town or anythingfor like 20 miles.
In those areas, religion iseverything.
People live for the weekend.
A lot of times the biggest eventin your life was church.
So, you know, you go to church,see your friends, you see
(02:24):
family.
It was a community, but whenpeople grew up and moved out,
they still came back to thatsame place.
So for some people, includingmyself, going to church was
almost like a mini friendreunion.
I grew up Basically, just goingto go.
The storytelling was awesomebecause our pastor used to be in
New Brunswick, so he couldabsolutely captivate you with
(02:46):
his preaching.
Then I got a little older.
I went to college, and that'swhere the story goes another
direction.
I was in a car accident, and Iliterally saw my life fresh
before my eyes.
And I saw what to me were allthe important moments.
And I saw the birth of my niece.
I remember different things thatwere important to me and formed
(03:08):
me into the person I was then.
And all this is happening is thewindshield is coming towards my
face.
My nose is literally about totouch.
I'm about to go through thewindshield.
And there I was.
I had steeled myself andprepared to meet whatever end it
was.
According to the religion I wasraised in, me not being saved,
it meant I had like an automaticticket to hell.
But this is what changedeverything for me.
(03:30):
Instead of me...
going through the windshield andhaving a broken neck and
bleeding out on the pavement.
Four hands on my chest and on mybelly literally pushed me back.
I was actually pressing againstthe steering wheel with all the
might that I had.
And I was pretty strong.
I could bench about 400 poundsthen.
(03:52):
And then those four hands cameand pushed me back in that seat
with so much force that knockedthe wind out of me.
I couldn't even breathe.
So instead of people coming tomy funeral crying, I'm in the
car and now I'm in theambulance.
And I'm wondering, how in theworld am I even alive?
I got hit headlong and somehowsurvived.
(04:12):
I know I didn't have thephysical strength and I was a
pretty strong man to survivethis.
What happened?
I went to a store and bought myfirst Bible ever.
So I'm like, listen, I've donesome reading here.
I've done some studying.
And this is my little prayer.
If you are truly up there andyou exist, then I'll dedicate my
(04:34):
life to you.
But if you're not real, I kindof need to know now.
So if there is something, I needto see a miracle.
It needs to be something toconvince me to exist and I'll
serve you.
Things happen, I'm like, okay,well, this must be it.
So I went to church and Iactually became a preacher.
I got ordained, I preached, andI actually taught Bible study in
my conference.
(04:54):
I became a Christian educationdirector.
I literally have five biblicaldegrees.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
So you were an actual preacher.
What denomination of church wereyou preaching?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Free Will Baptist.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
That's a fire and brimstone.
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
All day.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
So
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
what happened?
I'm a nerd at heart, so Ilistened to NPR and found out
what was going on in the world.
So I learned that the Biblewasn't originally written in
this English, King JamesVersion.
So then I went to talk to theliteral head of all nine
branches of Free Will Baptist.
And I asked, since this isn'tthe original language and you
want to be as close to as youcan to the source, then why
(05:36):
shouldn't we be doinginvestigations to get back to
Aramaic, to get back to Hebrew?
They said a lot of this stuffhas really changed over the
years based on whoever wrote it.
And it was not necessary, hetold me.
On NPR, there was this guy whowas 91 years old.
He had gotten his doctorate.
He was a priest.
He could read the Bible, ofcourse, in English, Old English,
(05:58):
Gaelic, Hebrew, Aramaic.
He could read it in Greek, andhe could even read the ancient
Hebrew.
Shouldn't we want to do the samekinds of things?
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Seems like a fair question as the Christian
education director and a pastor.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
I did go digging.
I did go reading.
I bought translations.
Some people in these churches,they're dead because they're
concerned about their souls.
And those are the people youshould be trying to reach,
leading people towards some sortof salvation or leading them
from one place to another andactually giving them hope.
How can I be privy to this butnot bring it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Right.
So that clearly disillusionedyou.
And then you mentioned somethingabout the housing crisis.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
This was 2008 when the housing crisis was just
going crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Right.
You had a friend who tried towake up the churches a little
bit.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
right here in Greensboro.
She literally went to severalneighborhoods, took pictures of
churches, and on that one block,took pictures of the houses in
foreclosure, sent that stuff tothe pastors and was like,
listen, on the block your churchsits, you have people that are
in peril, in need, families thatare breaking up, people being
(07:13):
removed from their homes.
What are you doing to help them?
The response, don't come to mychurch.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
So what was your response to that when you heard
that?
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
Back then, I had a whole different kind of mindset.
Like, you know, they don'tsupport that church.
But then I learned something.
In 1999, there was a flood downthe east.
It was like the 175-year flood,literally insane.
I know of a church where thewhole community was flooded out.
They had a building where thatwas dry.
(07:44):
It literally could have housed acouple hundred people.
They have refrigerators there.
They have stoves.
It could have been a life'sblood to people that had
literally lost everything.
I'm talking cars, houses,clothes, all the food they had.
They literally lost everything.
And instead of being the beaconof light the church is supposed
(08:04):
to be, well, if they come inhere and somebody break their
leg, it's a liability.
So I had to do somethingdifferent.
When I came to spirituality orcame to magic, I came with ill
intent.
And I happened to find out aboutshadow work.
So six months of shadow work, Igot myself together.
I'm meditating.
(08:25):
I'm able to recognize my part inwhatever happened.
Because sometimes, you know, youmight just ask for it.
So when I recognized my part ofit and I was able to come
outside of myself, narrow visionI had and see it for what it
was, then I was able to take adeep breath and be like, listen,
that's not what this is about.
Because when I started studying,when I was looking at the hoodoo
(08:45):
and the voodoo and and lookinginto the different religions of
West Africa.
And I also did a study onWiccan.
It's really like a practice oflight.
I found the same thing withmagic.
It's about living in harmonywith the world, but also being
able to bend some things in yourfavor.
First of all,
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
it is not common in any traditional religion to find
people who can look backcritically and say, something's
not adding up here.
You had the wherewithal, evenafter all those degrees and
being ordained, to say the wordand the intent is not matching
(09:28):
up here.
That speaks to who you are inyour heart.
So I just have to say that.
Number two, I like how youdescribed the vision here.
of seeing so many things relatedto your life in a split second
(09:49):
as you were coming to meet thewindshield in that car accident.
I'm presuming that's not thefirst time you've had that kind
of vision,
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
is
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
it?
I
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
remember being younger.
Man, we used to ride bicycles.
My grandma used to liveliterally straight down the
street.
I remember seeing certain housesand seeing people that didn't
live in the houses in the house.
I could kind of see throughthem.
And some of them, it was themost unwelcoming, meanest
looking folks.
So I'm on my bicycle like, okay,guys, stay away from here.
(10:20):
I didn't know what that sitewas.
And then, you know, you will seesome things.
It's inviting.
It's calm.
It's warm.
It's approachable.
I was in church.
This is one of the things that Iremember.
With this right here, I shallnever forget.
The preacher was up there.
He was talking.
There was somebody that had aThought they had seen an angel
(10:41):
in the field.
So this person ran all the wayback to the house and was like,
I seen an angel in the field.
They asked for such and such.
So everybody ran back down hereto see the angel.
Lo and behold, there was thisglorious being for the light.
According to the story now, itturned dark and hideous and just
about beat a man to death.
(11:02):
And that cured me from going totalk to or approach anything
that I saw.
That one story, I think I wasmaybe six years old when I heard
it, and it stuck with me to thisday.
It took a lot to get past that.
Because, you know, if you haveauditory,
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
they
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
always tell you, if you hear a voice, don't answer
it.
I had an experience where theseangels, I know that's what they
were now, showed up, and I knewany time an angel shows up in
the Bible, the first thing theysay is, you're not.
because they are some crazylooking massive creatures
usually.
I saw them and I was like, I'mgoing to go over there.
(11:46):
And that story kicked in theback of my head.
But they were massive.
And I know they were therebecause I had asked the
question.
When I went there, I must havespoke to the angel because I
lost an hour.
I don't know what was said.
I can't in my meditation go backto get to it yet.
But when I came back, because Iwas at work, to me it had been
(12:07):
more than maybe like 10 minutes.
I came back and they were like,dude, you've been gone for an
hour.
I looked at my watch and I hadliterally been gone for an hour.
So I don't know where we went orwhat was said, but that helped
me to kind of get past thiswhole story I heard about this
supposedly glorious being turnedinto something dark and crazy
(12:28):
and beating this man almost todeath.
But yeah, as far as it goes, nowthat I'm sitting back and I'm
looking at it, Because a lot ofthings, being a child, I kind of
put in the back of my mind.
When you come home and, youknow, you talk about that kind
of stuff, you know, your peoplekind of massage it out of you.
But then when you get older andyou start having these
experiences and you're like, youknow, I had asked for a
(12:49):
visitation and I asked to forclarity concerning these things
and to show me any evil or anynegative entity or spirit or
anything that's against me orany hidden work or whatever.
And it popped up in front of me.
I asked about this right hereand I received it because it was
my prayer.
When you ask for it and you getit, now you have to deal with
(13:10):
the fact that it happened andyou got it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Those experiences you've been having all your
life, it's always been there.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Like mantras.
When I was small, in my head allday long at school, I'm just
reciting these mantras, recitingthese mantras.
I mean like 10 hours, 12 hoursstraight.
And then when it happened, I'mlike, That's because I prayed
for it.
Gratitude, it will get youabsolutely long ways.
I was in my car.
(13:39):
It was storming.
I mean, it was insane.
And I'm one of those peoplewhere I appreciate the magic in
storms.
I appreciate the power instorms.
And I appreciate the rain theyprovide and the way they just
change the earth and make sureeverything continues forward.
But I do not like being stuckout in it.
When I got home, you know,people need to tell their homes,
(13:59):
thank you so much for protectingme and sheltering me because
it's cold outside.
I could be out there.
It's raining outside.
It's raining outside.
I could be out there.
I could literally be out herefighting for my life in the
midst of a storm.
I'm just thankful to be here,safe, sound, and secure.
Thank you for providing that forme.
It's a house.
People think maybe they won'trespond, but to me, I think
(14:20):
everything has some will andsome spirit.
I literally feel like right now,even as I'm reiterating it, that
it's being thankful right back.
Like, you know, thank you fornoticing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
In the book, Braiding Sweetgrass, the author
talks about making sure we showappreciation to Mother Earth and
show our gratitude, whether it'sby an offering, whether it's
through a prayer, something toshow that we recognize and
appreciate the abundance thatshe shares with us.
(14:54):
And I thought, what type ofrelationship would we think it's
okay for us to just take andnever to show appreciation or
give anything in return?
I think they call that toxic.
Toxic relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
I was an avid tither.
I mean, like 10% of everything Igot.
If somebody gave me 30 bucks,I'm giving the church three.
I was an avid tither.
Tithing is a promise.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I guess you didn't feel the church was keeping its
end of the promise.
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Give your 10%, then I'll make sure that you have
more than you can receive.
If that's the case, somebodyline.
Because if I give you one out ofevery 10 that I have, and you're
going to make my cup supposed torun it over, that is the literal
best deal gone.
Why would I not want to takeadvantage of that?
(15:50):
But there are tons, I mean,literally millions of people
Perhaps billions of peoplearound the world that are doing
that get nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
I liked what you said about living in harmony
with the earth and living inharmony just with the energies
of the animals and the elements,nature.
Is that what drew you to hoodoo?
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
I didn't know anything about hoodoo or voodoo
or anything really in thebeginning.
Well, it actually drew metowards Wicca because that's
kind of like where I started.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
I see.
So you went to Wicca after someof the excluded books of the
Bible made an impression on you,like the Gospel of Thomas.
SPEAKER_00 (16:40):
When you read, God is in the wind, God is in the
trees, God is in the leaves, Godis in the grass.
To me, that resonated.
I was having the absolutelyworst day ever.
I was outside by a bridge, and Iremember just being at my wit's
end, like, what on earth am Igoing to do?
(17:01):
And the gentlest wind blew pastme.
I felt this nice, warm,comforting breeze come by me,
and it literally nurtured me tothe point where my burdens had
been lifted.
I was back into perspective, andI could get back in my car, and
I could drive.
I didn't need the church forthat.
And I'm going to say that's oneof the 10 worst days of my life
(17:25):
that I can remember.
And I received what I neededfrom nature itself.
And I was able to go forward.
I remember those things.
So you can't tell me that it'sall about the inside of four
walls.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
So I'm curious, did you believe that that was God
talking directly to you?
And it's because you're apreacher, which is why you had
that capability?
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
I can speak about that, Dave, particularly because
I had this war in my mind, ifyou will.
I had noticed, and my sister hadactually brought it to my
attention, that anything that Ihad said would come to pass.
And I remember the one thing inparticular.
So I had noticed that my sisterwould always shut the door in
this car, and it was like aheavy door.
Hey, you better stop before you,you know, shut your hand up in
(18:11):
that door.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
I know exactly where this is going.
Pain.
My parents used to have a carwith really heavy car doors and
I was just a little kid.
And I remember while I wasreaching out my hand to close
the car door, I kept my otherhand braced on the frame so I
(18:33):
could get leverage.
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
We went somewhere and came back.
She closed the door and she shuther finger in that door.
She was over there hollering.
And then I ran over there and Ihelped her open the door.
My sister was hot.
I was just trying to give youthe warning because I seen it
coming.
I saw it.
Then I was thinking, well, youknow, could that possibly be me?
Because I didn't meet her in thehome.
It was just the foresight.
(18:58):
If anybody has that kind ofpower, it wouldn't be me.
I'm just a little country boy.
It would be somebody on somemountaintop somewhere.
So I was thinking when I wasyounger that, you know, despite
the mantras and everything andall the manifestations, And all
the foresight, you're toounimportant for that.
I had severely low self-esteemwhen I was younger.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Tell us a little bit about the people that you would
do healing with who werestanding in your after church
prayer line.
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
People would come back and they wouldn't have
cancer.
They would come back and theywould be healed of different
things.
People that were concerned aboutany different kind of element.
Even one girl came to me andsaid, I've got to make a bill to
pass and graduate high school.
We prayed.
She came back to me like, Igraduated.
The little bit that I have, orthe much that I have, why
(19:49):
shouldn't I use it to theabsolute, abject best of my
ability to help serve humanity?
When Dr.
King said that I absolutelybelieve that, why am I going to
be here with the ability and notdo something to help somebody?
If I'm over here with theability to heal, and I know I
can, why am I going to sit hereand watch you waste away and die
(20:13):
with cancer?
Why am I going to
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
do
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
But your church didn't see that ability as
coming from the divine.
That
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
was negative.
If you were a spirit on ajourney through this earthen
realm, or a soul on a journeythrough this earthen realm, If
you have something, or you canbe a conduit, why don't you use
it to serve?
Because people need it.
The scripture even asks thequestion, are ye not gods?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
I agree.
And you read the interpretationof the Bible from Aramaic, from
the Greek.
You saw where politics...
Power, plain misinterpretation,change the words and the intent.
(21:12):
It has to be power, right?
And fear.
To think that you are aspowerful as God takes the power
away from the church.
That's the conclusion I guessyou came to.
How did your family feel aboutthat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
It wasn't just my family, it was the whole church.
Because when you stand beforethe people, you need to give
them everything that you have.
You need to give it all.
If I'm going to be here and I'mgoing to serve, I believe in
service.
I'm going to preach to youbecause I know I'm going to
study well and study hard andmake sure I'm going to present
it to you the way it came to me.
I'm studying because I want youguys to know.
(21:54):
Not what I heard, not whatsomebody famous said, but what I
know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
I get what you're saying.
And I think that it's sopowerful to be able to listen to
yourself and say, hey, this isnot right.
And now here I am denouncing alot of these things to your
community.
It felt like you did a full 180.
The
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
whole thing is designed so you never make it
because everything turns outbeing sinful.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
I have felt healed in nature before.
by nature.
One of the programs that I waslooking into was eco
spirituality, finding spirit innature, in the environment, in
ecology.
The person that started thismovement was also a preacher and
(22:45):
a female, and she wasdisillusioned.
People are destroying ourmother.
And she, as a preacher, wantedto incorporate You mentioned
this not being preached.
She wanted to incorporate a lotof the biblical verses that
spoke to how cleansing andhealing nature was.
(23:07):
And she also wanted to not justincorporate those verses in her
sermons, but she also wanted touse congregational power,
energy, money, manpower to helpclean up the environment.
We have the very people here whoare listening to us and we could
(23:32):
help them see our earth is aGod-given gift.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
And we could use our energies to preserving and to
cleaning it up.
And she was was told essentiallythat is not the church's place.
That is not what they're thereto preach.
And, and this is what I want toget your thoughts on because you
mentioned the breeze healingyou, that by leading people to
(24:03):
believe nature has energy andpower, that it sounds like
witchcraft.
And so I'm interested becauseyou have been ordained in a
church and had experiences innature, how was that in any way,
shape, or form taking it outsideof God?
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Me in church would have said that, yes, indeed, the
earth is a gift.
It provides everything that weneed, the food, the water,
everything.
But if you allow people to beginto go out and they have the
experience, the true experience,let's say it that way, not the
form and fashion or theemotional trigger, but the true
(24:49):
experience, the one-on-one, thenthese people that hold all this
power and all this money, theybegin to lose it.
To me, all that stuff is writtenand it's interpreted by people
that are looking to do no morethan control.
Because if you go out, like theytalk about how the voice of God
(25:12):
sounded like a babbling brook,They want you to think, no, no,
no, no, no.
It's so powerful and so strongthat it's like Niagara Falls.
But it's not.
When you go up in the mountainsand you're near a baby stream
and you hear that triple, that'swhat it's like.
It's like that.
And if you are out there andyou're experiencing those things
(25:35):
and you're starting to put twoand two together, I don't need
you to get the spirit.
I need to be out here.
And this gift that was given,how dare we as a species, as a
creation, the Christians willsay, the masterpiece of God,
treat our sister, our mother, sohorribly.
(25:58):
I know you've been to theislands before, right?
When I look at the water on theislands, it is absolutely
beautiful and inviting.
I can drive down the coast ofNorth Carolina here and look at
this water.
It don't even look the same.
If you go to the rivers furtherup in the mountains, they're
like crystal clear.
(26:18):
If you leave Mother Earth alone,she will heal herself.
She'll do it.
I have a background indevelopment.
There are just certain places weshouldn't be building.
Let nature do what nature doesout here.
It's cool to visit.
But you don't need to bebuilding your house here.
And now you got to have a septicsystem.
You got to somehow have water.
Why are you doing all this?
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
And then bring all their friends in the gated
communities.
And then it just keeps gettingbigger.
Never mind all the burialgrounds they built on and the
sacred land that they destroyed,the animals that are close to
extinction in that area.
Part of my major spiritual leapshas been during the pandemic.
I relocated to Texas.
(27:00):
I'm living in Houston.
And I recognize all of theseemotions and feelings that are
not mine.
I did find out that thecommunities that I was living in
and around were all built onindigenous burial grounds.
I could feel it.
I love that you brought that upbecause I think that is also
(27:21):
very paramount.
Is that the power can't bewithin the individual because
where's the money in that?
SPEAKER_00 (27:27):
it's a whole construct because priestess i
was listening to said one time amember of the wise women as well
the whole concept of yahweh he'sa member of a pantheon so he's
not the be-all and end-all ofgodhood but the main reason why
they picked him and lifted himup and gave him all these titles
was because they wanted to cutthe female aspect out because
(27:49):
the priestesses were basicallythe last word and that was it
and that's how it always was Youcan take the average man and sit
him outside and what we're goingto do, we're going to go fishing
or something like that.
But you can take a woman and sither outside and she hears it
all.
All the rest of the world goesaway and she begins to connect.
That's some of the reason why,oh my man, where I come from, it
(28:11):
was bad.
250 year old denomination.
They have one woman.
This was in like 2009, I think.
Ever elected to that rulingcouncil, if you will.
And keep in mind, This issomething that happens every
three years.
So at the time, there had beenat least 83 of them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
I'd love to get your perspective on appropriation and
how to respectfully educateourselves about closed
practices, but not overstep.
I had the really good fortune oftraveling with my husband to
Yellowstone not too long ago.
(28:54):
And the ecological director ofour tour was explaining that
there's an annual event inMontana.
I'm not sure if it's associatedwith their annual affair or if
it's something related to theireducational system, but they
definitely providedwell-attended educational
(29:15):
components where the indigenousessentially taught the
non-indigenous people aboutindigenous traditions,
practices, belief systems,rituals.
People want to know, they havequestions and it's hard often to
(29:37):
get real trustworthyinformation.
So it opened up thatcommunication line, that
dialogue.
And the way they held this eventwas that you actually entered
the elders area and you wereinvited in for a lesson.
I totally understood why theyfelt the need to do that, to
(29:58):
open up communications.
And so that the indigenouspeople felt like they were
giving information on their ownterms and in a respectful way.
So I say all of that to say thatI think appropriation is a
problem, especially when peopleappropriate information
properly.
based on mistruth or half-truth,and they're uninformed.
(30:20):
So we had talked a little bitabout your dabbling back into
magic and hoodoo.
You were clear you weren't ahoodoo expert per se, but that
this was something that you hadinterest in.
And I want to talk about how tohave the conversation
respectfully around it so thatpeople who are interested can
get real accurate information,not to take and practice.
(30:43):
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying to understand.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
So I was hurt and angry and everything.
What I did was I wanted to go tothe source.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
So this is where the quote unquote witch doctor came
in.
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
was scared to death.
All I know is all the crazystuff that you hear.
So I did.
I went there and it was thiscolorful building.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
So we spent time with you.
A
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
good 50 hours one-on-one over the next year,
you know, just talking back andforth.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
What did you tell him about your former Baptist
life?
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
I had to come to him and apologize for anything that
I have said, because I know Idid, in error and in ignorance,
because I did.
But I'm here because I need toknow more about this.
Because when I told him I hadbeen outside on one of my very
worst days, I've had thisexperience.
I've literally felt I hadsomebody looking out for me.
(31:35):
I didn't know anything aboutancestors back then.
I remember when I was young, oneof my earliest memories is of a
man that I didn't know.
So I drew a picture of him formy mom to try to describe him
and come to find out who's mygreat-grandfather on my mom's
side.
Full-blooded.
I think he was either Lumbee orCherokee Indian.
And to my knowledge, we had noneof that in our family.
(31:56):
She was like, yeah, that's him.
We call him Paul.
He would show up in my dreams.
The only reason he's doing that,I feel, you know, because dreams
are demonic and whatever else,you know, on that side of the
world.
I'm like, he wouldn't be doingthis just to torment me.
Nobody I know doesn't, it is.
So I went to him.
You know, when people comerespectfully and they come truly
seeking, then it does open upthe ability to have that
(32:19):
dialogue, to have a realconversation.
This guy, he was telling meabout like his history and his
past and his path.
When people do come, werecognize the ignorance.
I've been there.
I've been in those shoes.
Come with respect.
Don't come with jokes.
Don't come with playing.
Because come open-minded people.
(32:40):
Come to learn.
I think it does open up thedialogue to actually become not
just better informed, but gain alevel of respect that people
didn't even know was even there.
I mean, and then if people arereally looking for an example,
Pope Francis came and he did thesame thing a few years back.
(33:01):
Supreme Pontiff would bringhimself here and meet with
elders and pray with them.
How can you do any different?
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Your hoodoo mentor really helped you with your
ancestor veneration practices.
Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
In my prayers, I'm like, you know, my ancestors
known, my ancestors unknown,because I don't know all of
them.
I don't.
I know many people might not,but I burn ancestor money every
day.
I have an altar for gods.
I have an altar for myancestors.
And I'm not burning.
I have a, you know, libationofferings.
I do all that.
(33:40):
I do all that because myfather's over there.
I got uncles, I got cousins,people that I know are over
there.
And when I first started, it wasone of the most negative and one
of the worst days I've ever had.
But I was told to be preparedfor it because for the last few
(34:04):
hundred years, most of yourancestors have been either
Christians or Muslims.
I had a vision.
No, I think I was actuallytrying to visit the Ancestral
Realm.
So I was there.
I've been bringing theseofferings and, you know, sending
this money and everythingbecause I want y'all to have.
They were all dressed in white.
It was like a line of like 200of them holding hands.
They looked at me, called me awitch and turned their backs on
(34:26):
me.
I cried like a baby in my own,like right there.
What in the world, man?
Like this is not the reception Iwas expecting.
Months later, I finally gotpast.
Oh, my God.
We don't have many people in thetradition that keep that, that
we just don't.
So what happens is yourancestors are there and you got
(34:48):
some of them that areexceedingly strong and they're
fine.
But you got a lot of them that,you know, died Christians or
that didn't have any truespiritual power or memories or
anything.
It's just like here only wayfewer resources.
So can you imagine somebodybeing hungry for 800 years?
Can you imagine somebody growingwithout water?
Even like I had an uncle thatpassed away not long ago.
(35:09):
Less than 30 days of steel.
Suppose I didn't leave waterout.
And this was what really, reallygot me to look at it because I
started doing research.
There's a lot of communitiesthat venerate their ancestors
and they're doing well.
Hey, look, I'm black.
Now I'm a leaderAfrican-American, but I ain't
never been to Africa.
I'm a black man.
We as a whole, probably reallynot doing well.
We don't have any wealth tospeak of, really.
(35:33):
We shun those things.
But it seemed to me like thecultures and the people that
remember them We are becausethey were.
And no one means you any betterthan the people that came before
you.
My grandma over there, my daddy,my uncle, these people love me.
They wanted the best for me.
If I was hungry, my daddy wouldfeed me.
(35:54):
He would buy the shelter for me.
He bought the house that we alllived in.
So you're going to mean to tellme that my daddy, just because
he transitioned, all of a suddenmean warming?
That's insane.
And to me, it's insane to, youknow, maybe you didn't feel like
a picture with her around yourhouse.
Knowing what I know now, food,always.
(36:15):
There's going to be some water,always.
And, you know, maybe it'd be alittle, you know, liquor or
something, too.
You know what I'm saying?
Always.
There's some tequila on my altarright now.
You know, like, I'm not a realbig fan of tequila.
I have bought bottles ofalcohol.
And if I crack it open for you,I'm not going to drink any of
it.
It's for them only.
(36:35):
I don't, I don't.
I know unless it's like, comeon, nephew, take a dream with me
because I'm a lightweight now.
SPEAKER_01 (36:42):
What I really like that you did was you humanize
the people that you or thespirits that you're communing
with so that anybody that wouldquestion who you're really
talking to, you know who you'retalking to.
You love to these people.
They lived and loved you.
How can we possibly say thatthat goes away once your body
(37:05):
dies?
How can we say that?
I agree with you 100%.
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
I think that that's just some sort of indoctrination
of fear.
If I do need help, if I can'thelp myself, the people that
love me and care about me themost usually are going to be
your family.
Because, I mean, you can haverelatives, you can have family.
Sometimes they're not the same.
If you had love for me in thisplane, when you transition, is
(37:34):
that love supposed to fade away?
I still miss you.
Sometimes, you know, I move totears because I miss our
conversation.
I miss, you know, maybe thephysical touch.
I miss being able to pick up thephone and give you a call.
I miss being able to be in yourpresence.
I think everybody has asituation where maybe they were
missing a loved one or thinkingabout them and something
(37:57):
happened that reminds you ofthem.
They might not be able to showup physically.
That takes a ton of energy.
But maybe we used to watch thebutterflies and all of a sudden
the butterflies show up and theyain't even spring.
Putting forth that energy to letyou know I hear you and I'm here
with you.
How dare I negate that?
I can't.
I can't.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
I love that.
Just last night I was laying inbed and I thought my cat came up
to snuggle me right behind.
Contrary to...
our podcast video today,normally she's not one that lets
you touch her.
So I thought, wow, what is themiracle for her to be snuggling
me so cool?
Like I'm here for this.
So I like reached my hand backto touch her.
She wasn't there.
(38:39):
I felt somebody come up andsnuggle me.
And then I felt the arm goaround.
Dang, Luna, your tail's gettinglong.
And then...
And then immediately I had thismemory of this person who passed
away before the 2000s.
And I thought, thank you forholding me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
I was going through it.
Like, I mean, going through it.
This was 2010 or so.
My father had already passedaway.
We used to have these deepconversations and he would give
me direction.
And I remember thinking before Iwent to sleep, my mind was in
turmoil.
I don't know how I'm going torest.
I wish I could talk to my daddy.
I got a little emotional.
So I rolled over and I finallywent to sleep.
(39:21):
My daddy literally came to me ina dream that night.
We sat down in what looked likea void.
He gave me a hug and he waslike, let's take a walk.
You know, so we did.
We walked and we talked.
And I woke up that morning fullof energy and clarity and like,
thank you, daddy.
You know, I appreciate youcoming through for me.
I needed it.
I mean, I needed it.
(39:43):
Power through that wisdom.
And I was like, you know what?
That's right.
He's going to work out.
This is going to be just fine.
And it worked out just likethat.
But look at the amount of energythat my daddy probably had to
expend to get to me like that.
Yeah, my ancestors been offeringthis stuff every single day.
Don't even worry about it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
That's it.
You've convinced me.
They deserve something to letthem know that I remember them
and that they meant something tome.
Something Tangible.
I know our thoughts arepowerful, but something
tangible.
And you know what?
I like what you said about thetequila.
I never opened that bottlebefore.
(40:26):
It's for them.
I
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
like that.
Sometimes they're like, somebodywanted some liquor.
I'm like, you know what?
Let me get this right here foryou.
And then I saw a man there witha can too.
I'm like, come on, nephew, drinkwith us.
I'm like, no, no, no.
They're like, oh, so you're justgoing to let me drink alone?
This is like the lyric, yo,you're just going to let me
drink alone?
How you going to do me likethat?
(40:50):
I'm like, you know what, man, Iain't got nothing to do.
I ain't going out or nothing.
If I do, I can call a lift orwhatever.
Man, I'll toss one back withyou.
Man, I'm over here like, yo,this stuff is on fire.
Then, like, the amount oflaughter that hit my ears.
Oh, yo, look at me.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
I love it.
My...
Native American side of myfamily can't process liquor,
right?
Because they're indigenousAmericans.
So and the other half wereDunkard Brethrens, which is like
two steps away from Amish.
So I'm leaving tequila for theone guy that drank.
(41:28):
I know there's got to besomebody.
Would you leave us some wordswhile we're all on?
our individual and uniquespiritual journeys.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
You're not on this earth alone, even if you feel
alone.
Even if you feel like the wholeworld doesn't see you or the
whole world is against you, theworld isn't against you, and we
do see you.
Be present.
There's a tribe for every singleperson.
Whether you're part of themagical community, whether
(42:07):
you're investigating magic, orwhether you just study and read
on magic, or you find yourselfin a church or some
denomination, you are loved, youare seen, and you are heard.
There's a tribe of people that'slooking for you.
I might be part of that tribe.
You might be part of mine.
But never feel that you're alonein this.
(42:28):
Do your own research.
Find what works and whatresonates with you, because
that's the only thing thatmatters.
And for those of you that are onthe search for truth, There's
absolutely nothing wrong withthat.
I applaud you in it, but I'mgoing to tell you what Dr.
Albert Blair said, and I take itas truth, and I take it as life,
(42:48):
and I take it as spirit.
There's no such thing as truthuntil you decide what truth is
for yourself.
When you get that, be guided byit, let it lead you.
When the time comes, you professit, and you lead others to know
that the truth is what they findto be true for themselves.
(43:12):
That's where you get your power.
That's where you find yourstrength.
And even if you are supposedlystanding alone, that's where you
find your tribe.
Because none of us are alone.
Absolutely none of us.
SPEAKER_01 (43:27):
Thank you so much, Son of Thunder, for joining us
today and sharing yourexperiences and your words of
wisdom.
And we wish you all the best inyour continued search.
Yes, it was absolutely wonderfulhaving you here.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
The pleasure has been mine.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Don't let the mystical magicstop here.
Please check out Past Lives Cafepodcast hosted by Keone, where
(44:17):
we talk about all things pastlives, including amazing
stories, healing experiences,and truly inspirational
insights.
Thank you for joining theMystical Mermaid Lounge podcast.
constructive, and positivefeedback are always welcome.
(44:38):
Drop us some fan mail atmysticalmermaidelounge at
buzzsprout.com or email usdirectly at
mysticalmermaidelounge atyahoo.com Finally, we do not
accept sponsorships or ads sothat we may bring a less
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(45:00):
So, if you are just aspassionate as we are about
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forward slash mystical mermaidlounge thanks again and catch us
(45:21):
at the next high tide bye
Welcome to the Mystical Mermaid Lounge Podcast,
a space where all spiritualseekers are honored and
celebrated.
This podcast was born from thejourneys of your hosts, who have
each faced her own dark night ofthe sun, but they've emerged
with an unshakable belief indivine connection, cosmic
(00:29):
inspiration, and her true life'scalling.
Join us on a journey of personalgrowth, transformation and
magical self-discovery.
Your first co-host is ChloeBrown, a gifted intuitive empath
and shadow work life coach.
Your second co-host is KeoniStarr, an intuitive energy
(00:53):
worker and acclaimed past liferegressionist.
The Mystical Mermaid Loungepodcast starts now.
We are so happy to welcome ourguest, Son of Thunder.
(01:14):
You will be amazed at his storythat ultimately shows his
integrity, moral character,strength, and connection to
spirit.
Son of Thunder is a formerBaptist pastor and Christian
education director for 27churches.
He's here to talk to us abouthis experience as a pastor.
(01:37):
and why he ultimately left thechurch and decided to pursue
nature-based practices, voodoo,and venerating his ancestors.
Welcome, Son of Thunder.
We are so happy to have you withus.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
I'm excited to be here.
Glad to share.
SPEAKER_01 (01:57):
Thank you.
We are so excited to have youhere.
Tell us a little bit about
SPEAKER_00 (02:02):
your background.
I'm an Eastern North Carolinian,Greenville, Kingston, Wilson
area.
So when I grew up, I'm close to50 years old.
It was dirt roads.
There wasn't town or anythingfor like 20 miles.
In those areas, religion iseverything.
People live for the weekend.
A lot of times the biggest eventin your life was church.
So, you know, you go to church,see your friends, you see
(02:24):
family.
It was a community, but whenpeople grew up and moved out,
they still came back to thatsame place.
So for some people, includingmyself, going to church was
almost like a mini friendreunion.
I grew up Basically, just goingto go.
The storytelling was awesomebecause our pastor used to be in
New Brunswick, so he couldabsolutely captivate you with
(02:46):
his preaching.
Then I got a little older.
I went to college, and that'swhere the story goes another
direction.
I was in a car accident, and Iliterally saw my life fresh
before my eyes.
And I saw what to me were allthe important moments.
And I saw the birth of my niece.
I remember different things thatwere important to me and formed
(03:08):
me into the person I was then.
And all this is happening is thewindshield is coming towards my
face.
My nose is literally about totouch.
I'm about to go through thewindshield.
And there I was.
I had steeled myself andprepared to meet whatever end it
was.
According to the religion I wasraised in, me not being saved,
it meant I had like an automaticticket to hell.
But this is what changedeverything for me.
(03:30):
Instead of me...
going through the windshield andhaving a broken neck and
bleeding out on the pavement.
Four hands on my chest and on mybelly literally pushed me back.
I was actually pressing againstthe steering wheel with all the
might that I had.
And I was pretty strong.
I could bench about 400 poundsthen.
(03:52):
And then those four hands cameand pushed me back in that seat
with so much force that knockedthe wind out of me.
I couldn't even breathe.
So instead of people coming tomy funeral crying, I'm in the
car and now I'm in theambulance.
And I'm wondering, how in theworld am I even alive?
I got hit headlong and somehowsurvived.
(04:12):
I know I didn't have thephysical strength and I was a
pretty strong man to survivethis.
What happened?
I went to a store and bought myfirst Bible ever.
So I'm like, listen, I've donesome reading here.
I've done some studying.
And this is my little prayer.
If you are truly up there andyou exist, then I'll dedicate my
(04:34):
life to you.
But if you're not real, I kindof need to know now.
So if there is something, I needto see a miracle.
It needs to be something toconvince me to exist and I'll
serve you.
Things happen, I'm like, okay,well, this must be it.
So I went to church and Iactually became a preacher.
I got ordained, I preached, andI actually taught Bible study in
my conference.
(04:54):
I became a Christian educationdirector.
I literally have five biblicaldegrees.
SPEAKER_01 (05:00):
So you were an actual preacher.
What denomination of church wereyou preaching?
SPEAKER_00 (05:05):
Free Will Baptist.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
That's a fire and brimstone.
SPEAKER_00 (05:10):
All day.
SPEAKER_01 (05:13):
So
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
what happened?
I'm a nerd at heart, so Ilistened to NPR and found out
what was going on in the world.
So I learned that the Biblewasn't originally written in
this English, King JamesVersion.
So then I went to talk to theliteral head of all nine
branches of Free Will Baptist.
And I asked, since this isn'tthe original language and you
want to be as close to as youcan to the source, then why
(05:36):
shouldn't we be doinginvestigations to get back to
Aramaic, to get back to Hebrew?
They said a lot of this stuffhas really changed over the
years based on whoever wrote it.
And it was not necessary, hetold me.
On NPR, there was this guy whowas 91 years old.
He had gotten his doctorate.
He was a priest.
He could read the Bible, ofcourse, in English, Old English,
(05:58):
Gaelic, Hebrew, Aramaic.
He could read it in Greek, andhe could even read the ancient
Hebrew.
Shouldn't we want to do the samekinds of things?
SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Seems like a fair question as the Christian
education director and a pastor.
SPEAKER_00 (06:14):
I did go digging.
I did go reading.
I bought translations.
Some people in these churches,they're dead because they're
concerned about their souls.
And those are the people youshould be trying to reach,
leading people towards some sortof salvation or leading them
from one place to another andactually giving them hope.
How can I be privy to this butnot bring it?
SPEAKER_01 (06:34):
Right.
So that clearly disillusionedyou.
And then you mentioned somethingabout the housing crisis.
SPEAKER_00 (06:42):
This was 2008 when the housing crisis was just
going crazy.
SPEAKER_01 (06:46):
Right.
You had a friend who tried towake up the churches a little
bit.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
right here in Greensboro.
She literally went to severalneighborhoods, took pictures of
churches, and on that one block,took pictures of the houses in
foreclosure, sent that stuff tothe pastors and was like,
listen, on the block your churchsits, you have people that are
in peril, in need, families thatare breaking up, people being
(07:13):
removed from their homes.
What are you doing to help them?
The response, don't come to mychurch.
SPEAKER_01 (07:20):
So what was your response to that when you heard
that?
SPEAKER_00 (07:23):
Back then, I had a whole different kind of mindset.
Like, you know, they don'tsupport that church.
But then I learned something.
In 1999, there was a flood downthe east.
It was like the 175-year flood,literally insane.
I know of a church where thewhole community was flooded out.
They had a building where thatwas dry.
(07:44):
It literally could have housed acouple hundred people.
They have refrigerators there.
They have stoves.
It could have been a life'sblood to people that had
literally lost everything.
I'm talking cars, houses,clothes, all the food they had.
They literally lost everything.
And instead of being the beaconof light the church is supposed
(08:04):
to be, well, if they come inhere and somebody break their
leg, it's a liability.
So I had to do somethingdifferent.
When I came to spirituality orcame to magic, I came with ill
intent.
And I happened to find out aboutshadow work.
So six months of shadow work, Igot myself together.
I'm meditating.
(08:25):
I'm able to recognize my part inwhatever happened.
Because sometimes, you know, youmight just ask for it.
So when I recognized my part ofit and I was able to come
outside of myself, narrow visionI had and see it for what it
was, then I was able to take adeep breath and be like, listen,
that's not what this is about.
Because when I started studying,when I was looking at the hoodoo
(08:45):
and the voodoo and and lookinginto the different religions of
West Africa.
And I also did a study onWiccan.
It's really like a practice oflight.
I found the same thing withmagic.
It's about living in harmonywith the world, but also being
able to bend some things in yourfavor.
First of all,
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
it is not common in any traditional religion to find
people who can look backcritically and say, something's
not adding up here.
You had the wherewithal, evenafter all those degrees and
being ordained, to say the wordand the intent is not matching
(09:28):
up here.
That speaks to who you are inyour heart.
So I just have to say that.
Number two, I like how youdescribed the vision here.
of seeing so many things relatedto your life in a split second
(09:49):
as you were coming to meet thewindshield in that car accident.
I'm presuming that's not thefirst time you've had that kind
of vision,
SPEAKER_00 (09:57):
is
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
it?
I
SPEAKER_00 (09:59):
remember being younger.
Man, we used to ride bicycles.
My grandma used to liveliterally straight down the
street.
I remember seeing certain housesand seeing people that didn't
live in the houses in the house.
I could kind of see throughthem.
And some of them, it was themost unwelcoming, meanest
looking folks.
So I'm on my bicycle like, okay,guys, stay away from here.
(10:20):
I didn't know what that sitewas.
And then, you know, you will seesome things.
It's inviting.
It's calm.
It's warm.
It's approachable.
I was in church.
This is one of the things that Iremember.
With this right here, I shallnever forget.
The preacher was up there.
He was talking.
There was somebody that had aThought they had seen an angel
(10:41):
in the field.
So this person ran all the wayback to the house and was like,
I seen an angel in the field.
They asked for such and such.
So everybody ran back down hereto see the angel.
Lo and behold, there was thisglorious being for the light.
According to the story now, itturned dark and hideous and just
about beat a man to death.
(11:02):
And that cured me from going totalk to or approach anything
that I saw.
That one story, I think I wasmaybe six years old when I heard
it, and it stuck with me to thisday.
It took a lot to get past that.
Because, you know, if you haveauditory,
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
they
SPEAKER_00 (11:23):
always tell you, if you hear a voice, don't answer
it.
I had an experience where theseangels, I know that's what they
were now, showed up, and I knewany time an angel shows up in
the Bible, the first thing theysay is, you're not.
because they are some crazylooking massive creatures
usually.
I saw them and I was like, I'mgoing to go over there.
(11:46):
And that story kicked in theback of my head.
But they were massive.
And I know they were therebecause I had asked the
question.
When I went there, I must havespoke to the angel because I
lost an hour.
I don't know what was said.
I can't in my meditation go backto get to it yet.
But when I came back, because Iwas at work, to me it had been
(12:07):
more than maybe like 10 minutes.
I came back and they were like,dude, you've been gone for an
hour.
I looked at my watch and I hadliterally been gone for an hour.
So I don't know where we went orwhat was said, but that helped
me to kind of get past thiswhole story I heard about this
supposedly glorious being turnedinto something dark and crazy
(12:28):
and beating this man almost todeath.
But yeah, as far as it goes, nowthat I'm sitting back and I'm
looking at it, Because a lot ofthings, being a child, I kind of
put in the back of my mind.
When you come home and, youknow, you talk about that kind
of stuff, you know, your peoplekind of massage it out of you.
But then when you get older andyou start having these
experiences and you're like, youknow, I had asked for a
(12:49):
visitation and I asked to forclarity concerning these things
and to show me any evil or anynegative entity or spirit or
anything that's against me orany hidden work or whatever.
And it popped up in front of me.
I asked about this right hereand I received it because it was
my prayer.
When you ask for it and you getit, now you have to deal with
(13:10):
the fact that it happened andyou got it.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Those experiences you've been having all your
life, it's always been there.
SPEAKER_00 (13:18):
Like mantras.
When I was small, in my head allday long at school, I'm just
reciting these mantras, recitingthese mantras.
I mean like 10 hours, 12 hoursstraight.
And then when it happened, I'mlike, That's because I prayed
for it.
Gratitude, it will get youabsolutely long ways.
I was in my car.
(13:39):
It was storming.
I mean, it was insane.
And I'm one of those peoplewhere I appreciate the magic in
storms.
I appreciate the power instorms.
And I appreciate the rain theyprovide and the way they just
change the earth and make sureeverything continues forward.
But I do not like being stuckout in it.
When I got home, you know,people need to tell their homes,
(13:59):
thank you so much for protectingme and sheltering me because
it's cold outside.
I could be out there.
It's raining outside.
It's raining outside.
I could be out there.
I could literally be out herefighting for my life in the
midst of a storm.
I'm just thankful to be here,safe, sound, and secure.
Thank you for providing that forme.
It's a house.
People think maybe they won'trespond, but to me, I think
(14:20):
everything has some will andsome spirit.
I literally feel like right now,even as I'm reiterating it, that
it's being thankful right back.
Like, you know, thank you fornoticing.
SPEAKER_01 (14:30):
In the book, Braiding Sweetgrass, the author
talks about making sure we showappreciation to Mother Earth and
show our gratitude, whether it'sby an offering, whether it's
through a prayer, something toshow that we recognize and
appreciate the abundance thatshe shares with us.
(14:54):
And I thought, what type ofrelationship would we think it's
okay for us to just take andnever to show appreciation or
give anything in return?
I think they call that toxic.
Toxic relationships.
SPEAKER_00 (15:11):
I was an avid tither.
I mean, like 10% of everything Igot.
If somebody gave me 30 bucks,I'm giving the church three.
I was an avid tither.
Tithing is a promise.
SPEAKER_01 (15:23):
I guess you didn't feel the church was keeping its
end of the promise.
SPEAKER_00 (15:27):
Give your 10%, then I'll make sure that you have
more than you can receive.
If that's the case, somebodyline.
Because if I give you one out ofevery 10 that I have, and you're
going to make my cup supposed torun it over, that is the literal
best deal gone.
Why would I not want to takeadvantage of that?
(15:50):
But there are tons, I mean,literally millions of people
Perhaps billions of peoplearound the world that are doing
that get nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (15:59):
I liked what you said about living in harmony
with the earth and living inharmony just with the energies
of the animals and the elements,nature.
Is that what drew you to hoodoo?
SPEAKER_00 (16:16):
I didn't know anything about hoodoo or voodoo
or anything really in thebeginning.
Well, it actually drew metowards Wicca because that's
kind of like where I started.
SPEAKER_01 (16:27):
I see.
So you went to Wicca after someof the excluded books of the
Bible made an impression on you,like the Gospel of Thomas.
SPEAKER_00 (16:40):
When you read, God is in the wind, God is in the
trees, God is in the leaves, Godis in the grass.
To me, that resonated.
I was having the absolutelyworst day ever.
I was outside by a bridge, and Iremember just being at my wit's
end, like, what on earth am Igoing to do?
(17:01):
And the gentlest wind blew pastme.
I felt this nice, warm,comforting breeze come by me,
and it literally nurtured me tothe point where my burdens had
been lifted.
I was back into perspective, andI could get back in my car, and
I could drive.
I didn't need the church forthat.
And I'm going to say that's oneof the 10 worst days of my life
(17:25):
that I can remember.
And I received what I neededfrom nature itself.
And I was able to go forward.
I remember those things.
So you can't tell me that it'sall about the inside of four
walls.
SPEAKER_01 (17:38):
So I'm curious, did you believe that that was God
talking directly to you?
And it's because you're apreacher, which is why you had
that capability?
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
I can speak about that, Dave, particularly because
I had this war in my mind, ifyou will.
I had noticed, and my sister hadactually brought it to my
attention, that anything that Ihad said would come to pass.
And I remember the one thing inparticular.
So I had noticed that my sisterwould always shut the door in
this car, and it was like aheavy door.
Hey, you better stop before you,you know, shut your hand up in
(18:11):
that door.
SPEAKER_01 (18:11):
I know exactly where this is going.
Pain.
My parents used to have a carwith really heavy car doors and
I was just a little kid.
And I remember while I wasreaching out my hand to close
the car door, I kept my otherhand braced on the frame so I
(18:33):
could get leverage.
SPEAKER_00 (18:36):
We went somewhere and came back.
She closed the door and she shuther finger in that door.
She was over there hollering.
And then I ran over there and Ihelped her open the door.
My sister was hot.
I was just trying to give youthe warning because I seen it
coming.
I saw it.
Then I was thinking, well, youknow, could that possibly be me?
Because I didn't meet her in thehome.
It was just the foresight.
(18:58):
If anybody has that kind ofpower, it wouldn't be me.
I'm just a little country boy.
It would be somebody on somemountaintop somewhere.
So I was thinking when I wasyounger that, you know, despite
the mantras and everything andall the manifestations, And all
the foresight, you're toounimportant for that.
I had severely low self-esteemwhen I was younger.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Tell us a little bit about the people that you would
do healing with who werestanding in your after church
prayer line.
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
People would come back and they wouldn't have
cancer.
They would come back and theywould be healed of different
things.
People that were concerned aboutany different kind of element.
Even one girl came to me andsaid, I've got to make a bill to
pass and graduate high school.
We prayed.
She came back to me like, Igraduated.
The little bit that I have, orthe much that I have, why
(19:49):
shouldn't I use it to theabsolute, abject best of my
ability to help serve humanity?
When Dr.
King said that I absolutelybelieve that, why am I going to
be here with the ability and notdo something to help somebody?
If I'm over here with theability to heal, and I know I
can, why am I going to sit hereand watch you waste away and die
(20:13):
with cancer?
Why am I going to
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
do
SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
that?
SPEAKER_01 (20:18):
But your church didn't see that ability as
coming from the divine.
That
SPEAKER_00 (20:25):
was negative.
If you were a spirit on ajourney through this earthen
realm, or a soul on a journeythrough this earthen realm, If
you have something, or you canbe a conduit, why don't you use
it to serve?
Because people need it.
The scripture even asks thequestion, are ye not gods?
SPEAKER_01 (20:50):
I agree.
And you read the interpretationof the Bible from Aramaic, from
the Greek.
You saw where politics...
Power, plain misinterpretation,change the words and the intent.
(21:12):
It has to be power, right?
And fear.
To think that you are aspowerful as God takes the power
away from the church.
That's the conclusion I guessyou came to.
How did your family feel aboutthat?
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
It wasn't just my family, it was the whole church.
Because when you stand beforethe people, you need to give
them everything that you have.
You need to give it all.
If I'm going to be here and I'mgoing to serve, I believe in
service.
I'm going to preach to youbecause I know I'm going to
study well and study hard andmake sure I'm going to present
it to you the way it came to me.
I'm studying because I want youguys to know.
(21:54):
Not what I heard, not whatsomebody famous said, but what I
know.
SPEAKER_01 (21:59):
I get what you're saying.
And I think that it's sopowerful to be able to listen to
yourself and say, hey, this isnot right.
And now here I am denouncing alot of these things to your
community.
It felt like you did a full 180.
The
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
whole thing is designed so you never make it
because everything turns outbeing sinful.
SPEAKER_01 (22:23):
I have felt healed in nature before.
by nature.
One of the programs that I waslooking into was eco
spirituality, finding spirit innature, in the environment, in
ecology.
The person that started thismovement was also a preacher and
(22:45):
a female, and she wasdisillusioned.
People are destroying ourmother.
And she, as a preacher, wantedto incorporate You mentioned
this not being preached.
She wanted to incorporate a lotof the biblical verses that
spoke to how cleansing andhealing nature was.
(23:07):
And she also wanted to not justincorporate those verses in her
sermons, but she also wanted touse congregational power,
energy, money, manpower to helpclean up the environment.
We have the very people here whoare listening to us and we could
(23:32):
help them see our earth is aGod-given gift.
SPEAKER_00 (23:38):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (23:40):
And we could use our energies to preserving and to
cleaning it up.
And she was was told essentiallythat is not the church's place.
That is not what they're thereto preach.
And, and this is what I want toget your thoughts on because you
mentioned the breeze healingyou, that by leading people to
(24:03):
believe nature has energy andpower, that it sounds like
witchcraft.
And so I'm interested becauseyou have been ordained in a
church and had experiences innature, how was that in any way,
shape, or form taking it outsideof God?
SPEAKER_00 (24:25):
Me in church would have said that, yes, indeed, the
earth is a gift.
It provides everything that weneed, the food, the water,
everything.
But if you allow people to beginto go out and they have the
experience, the true experience,let's say it that way, not the
form and fashion or theemotional trigger, but the true
(24:49):
experience, the one-on-one, thenthese people that hold all this
power and all this money, theybegin to lose it.
To me, all that stuff is writtenand it's interpreted by people
that are looking to do no morethan control.
Because if you go out, like theytalk about how the voice of God
(25:12):
sounded like a babbling brook,They want you to think, no, no,
no, no, no.
It's so powerful and so strongthat it's like Niagara Falls.
But it's not.
When you go up in the mountainsand you're near a baby stream
and you hear that triple, that'swhat it's like.
It's like that.
And if you are out there andyou're experiencing those things
(25:35):
and you're starting to put twoand two together, I don't need
you to get the spirit.
I need to be out here.
And this gift that was given,how dare we as a species, as a
creation, the Christians willsay, the masterpiece of God,
treat our sister, our mother, sohorribly.
(25:58):
I know you've been to theislands before, right?
When I look at the water on theislands, it is absolutely
beautiful and inviting.
I can drive down the coast ofNorth Carolina here and look at
this water.
It don't even look the same.
If you go to the rivers furtherup in the mountains, they're
like crystal clear.
(26:18):
If you leave Mother Earth alone,she will heal herself.
She'll do it.
I have a background indevelopment.
There are just certain places weshouldn't be building.
Let nature do what nature doesout here.
It's cool to visit.
But you don't need to bebuilding your house here.
And now you got to have a septicsystem.
You got to somehow have water.
Why are you doing all this?
SPEAKER_01 (26:39):
And then bring all their friends in the gated
communities.
And then it just keeps gettingbigger.
Never mind all the burialgrounds they built on and the
sacred land that they destroyed,the animals that are close to
extinction in that area.
Part of my major spiritual leapshas been during the pandemic.
I relocated to Texas.
(27:00):
I'm living in Houston.
And I recognize all of theseemotions and feelings that are
not mine.
I did find out that thecommunities that I was living in
and around were all built onindigenous burial grounds.
I could feel it.
I love that you brought that upbecause I think that is also
(27:21):
very paramount.
Is that the power can't bewithin the individual because
where's the money in that?
SPEAKER_00 (27:27):
it's a whole construct because priestess i
was listening to said one time amember of the wise women as well
the whole concept of yahweh he'sa member of a pantheon so he's
not the be-all and end-all ofgodhood but the main reason why
they picked him and lifted himup and gave him all these titles
was because they wanted to cutthe female aspect out because
(27:49):
the priestesses were basicallythe last word and that was it
and that's how it always was Youcan take the average man and sit
him outside and what we're goingto do, we're going to go fishing
or something like that.
But you can take a woman and sither outside and she hears it
all.
All the rest of the world goesaway and she begins to connect.
That's some of the reason why,oh my man, where I come from, it
(28:11):
was bad.
250 year old denomination.
They have one woman.
This was in like 2009, I think.
Ever elected to that rulingcouncil, if you will.
And keep in mind, This issomething that happens every
three years.
So at the time, there had beenat least 83 of them.
SPEAKER_01 (28:33):
I'd love to get your perspective on appropriation and
how to respectfully educateourselves about closed
practices, but not overstep.
I had the really good fortune oftraveling with my husband to
Yellowstone not too long ago.
(28:54):
And the ecological director ofour tour was explaining that
there's an annual event inMontana.
I'm not sure if it's associatedwith their annual affair or if
it's something related to theireducational system, but they
definitely providedwell-attended educational
(29:15):
components where the indigenousessentially taught the
non-indigenous people aboutindigenous traditions,
practices, belief systems,rituals.
People want to know, they havequestions and it's hard often to
(29:37):
get real trustworthyinformation.
So it opened up thatcommunication line, that
dialogue.
And the way they held this eventwas that you actually entered
the elders area and you wereinvited in for a lesson.
I totally understood why theyfelt the need to do that, to
(29:58):
open up communications.
And so that the indigenouspeople felt like they were
giving information on their ownterms and in a respectful way.
So I say all of that to say thatI think appropriation is a
problem, especially when peopleappropriate information
properly.
based on mistruth or half-truth,and they're uninformed.
(30:20):
So we had talked a little bitabout your dabbling back into
magic and hoodoo.
You were clear you weren't ahoodoo expert per se, but that
this was something that you hadinterest in.
And I want to talk about how tohave the conversation
respectfully around it so thatpeople who are interested can
get real accurate information,not to take and practice.
(30:43):
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying to understand.
SPEAKER_00 (30:46):
So I was hurt and angry and everything.
What I did was I wanted to go tothe source.
SPEAKER_01 (30:51):
So this is where the quote unquote witch doctor came
in.
I
SPEAKER_00 (30:56):
was scared to death.
All I know is all the crazystuff that you hear.
So I did.
I went there and it was thiscolorful building.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
So we spent time with you.
A
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
good 50 hours one-on-one over the next year,
you know, just talking back andforth.
SPEAKER_01 (31:11):
What did you tell him about your former Baptist
life?
SPEAKER_00 (31:14):
I had to come to him and apologize for anything that
I have said, because I know Idid, in error and in ignorance,
because I did.
But I'm here because I need toknow more about this.
Because when I told him I hadbeen outside on one of my very
worst days, I've had thisexperience.
I've literally felt I hadsomebody looking out for me.
(31:35):
I didn't know anything aboutancestors back then.
I remember when I was young, oneof my earliest memories is of a
man that I didn't know.
So I drew a picture of him formy mom to try to describe him
and come to find out who's mygreat-grandfather on my mom's
side.
Full-blooded.
I think he was either Lumbee orCherokee Indian.
And to my knowledge, we had noneof that in our family.
(31:56):
She was like, yeah, that's him.
We call him Paul.
He would show up in my dreams.
The only reason he's doing that,I feel, you know, because dreams
are demonic and whatever else,you know, on that side of the
world.
I'm like, he wouldn't be doingthis just to torment me.
Nobody I know doesn't, it is.
So I went to him.
You know, when people comerespectfully and they come truly
seeking, then it does open upthe ability to have that
(32:19):
dialogue, to have a realconversation.
This guy, he was telling meabout like his history and his
past and his path.
When people do come, werecognize the ignorance.
I've been there.
I've been in those shoes.
Come with respect.
Don't come with jokes.
Don't come with playing.
Because come open-minded people.
(32:40):
Come to learn.
I think it does open up thedialogue to actually become not
just better informed, but gain alevel of respect that people
didn't even know was even there.
I mean, and then if people arereally looking for an example,
Pope Francis came and he did thesame thing a few years back.
(33:01):
Supreme Pontiff would bringhimself here and meet with
elders and pray with them.
How can you do any different?
SPEAKER_01 (33:10):
Your hoodoo mentor really helped you with your
ancestor veneration practices.
Tell us a little bit about that.
SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
In my prayers, I'm like, you know, my ancestors
known, my ancestors unknown,because I don't know all of
them.
I don't.
I know many people might not,but I burn ancestor money every
day.
I have an altar for gods.
I have an altar for myancestors.
And I'm not burning.
I have a, you know, libationofferings.
I do all that.
(33:40):
I do all that because myfather's over there.
I got uncles, I got cousins,people that I know are over
there.
And when I first started, it wasone of the most negative and one
of the worst days I've ever had.
But I was told to be preparedfor it because for the last few
(34:04):
hundred years, most of yourancestors have been either
Christians or Muslims.
I had a vision.
No, I think I was actuallytrying to visit the Ancestral
Realm.
So I was there.
I've been bringing theseofferings and, you know, sending
this money and everythingbecause I want y'all to have.
They were all dressed in white.
It was like a line of like 200of them holding hands.
They looked at me, called me awitch and turned their backs on
(34:26):
me.
I cried like a baby in my own,like right there.
What in the world, man?
Like this is not the reception Iwas expecting.
Months later, I finally gotpast.
Oh, my God.
We don't have many people in thetradition that keep that, that
we just don't.
So what happens is yourancestors are there and you got
(34:48):
some of them that areexceedingly strong and they're
fine.
But you got a lot of them that,you know, died Christians or
that didn't have any truespiritual power or memories or
anything.
It's just like here only wayfewer resources.
So can you imagine somebodybeing hungry for 800 years?
Can you imagine somebody growingwithout water?
Even like I had an uncle thatpassed away not long ago.
(35:09):
Less than 30 days of steel.
Suppose I didn't leave waterout.
And this was what really, reallygot me to look at it because I
started doing research.
There's a lot of communitiesthat venerate their ancestors
and they're doing well.
Hey, look, I'm black.
Now I'm a leaderAfrican-American, but I ain't
never been to Africa.
I'm a black man.
We as a whole, probably reallynot doing well.
We don't have any wealth tospeak of, really.
(35:33):
We shun those things.
But it seemed to me like thecultures and the people that
remember them We are becausethey were.
And no one means you any betterthan the people that came before
you.
My grandma over there, my daddy,my uncle, these people love me.
They wanted the best for me.
If I was hungry, my daddy wouldfeed me.
(35:54):
He would buy the shelter for me.
He bought the house that we alllived in.
So you're going to mean to tellme that my daddy, just because
he transitioned, all of a suddenmean warming?
That's insane.
And to me, it's insane to, youknow, maybe you didn't feel like
a picture with her around yourhouse.
Knowing what I know now, food,always.
(36:15):
There's going to be some water,always.
And, you know, maybe it'd be alittle, you know, liquor or
something, too.
You know what I'm saying?
Always.
There's some tequila on my altarright now.
You know, like, I'm not a realbig fan of tequila.
I have bought bottles ofalcohol.
And if I crack it open for you,I'm not going to drink any of
it.
It's for them only.
(36:35):
I don't, I don't.
I know unless it's like, comeon, nephew, take a dream with me
because I'm a lightweight now.
SPEAKER_01 (36:42):
What I really like that you did was you humanize
the people that you or thespirits that you're communing
with so that anybody that wouldquestion who you're really
talking to, you know who you'retalking to.
You love to these people.
They lived and loved you.
How can we possibly say thatthat goes away once your body
(37:05):
dies?
How can we say that?
I agree with you 100%.
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
I think that that's just some sort of indoctrination
of fear.
If I do need help, if I can'thelp myself, the people that
love me and care about me themost usually are going to be
your family.
Because, I mean, you can haverelatives, you can have family.
Sometimes they're not the same.
If you had love for me in thisplane, when you transition, is
(37:34):
that love supposed to fade away?
I still miss you.
Sometimes, you know, I move totears because I miss our
conversation.
I miss, you know, maybe thephysical touch.
I miss being able to pick up thephone and give you a call.
I miss being able to be in yourpresence.
I think everybody has asituation where maybe they were
missing a loved one or thinkingabout them and something
(37:57):
happened that reminds you ofthem.
They might not be able to showup physically.
That takes a ton of energy.
But maybe we used to watch thebutterflies and all of a sudden
the butterflies show up and theyain't even spring.
Putting forth that energy to letyou know I hear you and I'm here
with you.
How dare I negate that?
I can't.
I can't.
SPEAKER_01 (38:19):
I love that.
Just last night I was laying inbed and I thought my cat came up
to snuggle me right behind.
Contrary to...
our podcast video today,normally she's not one that lets
you touch her.
So I thought, wow, what is themiracle for her to be snuggling
me so cool?
Like I'm here for this.
So I like reached my hand backto touch her.
She wasn't there.
(38:39):
I felt somebody come up andsnuggle me.
And then I felt the arm goaround.
Dang, Luna, your tail's gettinglong.
And then...
And then immediately I had thismemory of this person who passed
away before the 2000s.
And I thought, thank you forholding me.
I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
I was going through it.
Like, I mean, going through it.
This was 2010 or so.
My father had already passedaway.
We used to have these deepconversations and he would give
me direction.
And I remember thinking before Iwent to sleep, my mind was in
turmoil.
I don't know how I'm going torest.
I wish I could talk to my daddy.
I got a little emotional.
So I rolled over and I finallywent to sleep.
(39:21):
My daddy literally came to me ina dream that night.
We sat down in what looked likea void.
He gave me a hug and he waslike, let's take a walk.
You know, so we did.
We walked and we talked.
And I woke up that morning fullof energy and clarity and like,
thank you, daddy.
You know, I appreciate youcoming through for me.
I needed it.
I mean, I needed it.
(39:43):
Power through that wisdom.
And I was like, you know what?
That's right.
He's going to work out.
This is going to be just fine.
And it worked out just likethat.
But look at the amount of energythat my daddy probably had to
expend to get to me like that.
Yeah, my ancestors been offeringthis stuff every single day.
Don't even worry about it.
SPEAKER_01 (40:04):
That's it.
You've convinced me.
They deserve something to letthem know that I remember them
and that they meant something tome.
Something Tangible.
I know our thoughts arepowerful, but something
tangible.
And you know what?
I like what you said about thetequila.
I never opened that bottlebefore.
(40:26):
It's for them.
I
SPEAKER_00 (40:29):
like that.
Sometimes they're like, somebodywanted some liquor.
I'm like, you know what?
Let me get this right here foryou.
And then I saw a man there witha can too.
I'm like, come on, nephew, drinkwith us.
I'm like, no, no, no.
They're like, oh, so you're justgoing to let me drink alone?
This is like the lyric, yo,you're just going to let me
drink alone?
How you going to do me likethat?
(40:50):
I'm like, you know what, man, Iain't got nothing to do.
I ain't going out or nothing.
If I do, I can call a lift orwhatever.
Man, I'll toss one back withyou.
Man, I'm over here like, yo,this stuff is on fire.
Then, like, the amount oflaughter that hit my ears.
Oh, yo, look at me.
SPEAKER_01 (41:07):
I love it.
My...
Native American side of myfamily can't process liquor,
right?
Because they're indigenousAmericans.
So and the other half wereDunkard Brethrens, which is like
two steps away from Amish.
So I'm leaving tequila for theone guy that drank.
(41:28):
I know there's got to besomebody.
Would you leave us some wordswhile we're all on?
our individual and uniquespiritual journeys.
SPEAKER_00 (41:45):
You're not on this earth alone, even if you feel
alone.
Even if you feel like the wholeworld doesn't see you or the
whole world is against you, theworld isn't against you, and we
do see you.
Be present.
There's a tribe for every singleperson.
Whether you're part of themagical community, whether
(42:07):
you're investigating magic, orwhether you just study and read
on magic, or you find yourselfin a church or some
denomination, you are loved, youare seen, and you are heard.
There's a tribe of people that'slooking for you.
I might be part of that tribe.
You might be part of mine.
But never feel that you're alonein this.
(42:28):
Do your own research.
Find what works and whatresonates with you, because
that's the only thing thatmatters.
And for those of you that are onthe search for truth, There's
absolutely nothing wrong withthat.
I applaud you in it, but I'mgoing to tell you what Dr.
Albert Blair said, and I take itas truth, and I take it as life,
(42:48):
and I take it as spirit.
There's no such thing as truthuntil you decide what truth is
for yourself.
When you get that, be guided byit, let it lead you.
When the time comes, you professit, and you lead others to know
that the truth is what they findto be true for themselves.
(43:12):
That's where you get your power.
That's where you find yourstrength.
And even if you are supposedlystanding alone, that's where you
find your tribe.
Because none of us are alone.
Absolutely none of us.
SPEAKER_01 (43:27):
Thank you so much, Son of Thunder, for joining us
today and sharing yourexperiences and your words of
wisdom.
And we wish you all the best inyour continued search.
Yes, it was absolutely wonderfulhaving you here.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_00 (43:46):
The pleasure has been mine.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_01 (43:53):
Thank you so much for joining us today.
Don't let the mystical magicstop here.
Please check out Past Lives Cafepodcast hosted by Keone, where
(44:17):
we talk about all things pastlives, including amazing
stories, healing experiences,and truly inspirational
insights.
Thank you for joining theMystical Mermaid Lounge podcast.
constructive, and positivefeedback are always welcome.
(44:38):
Drop us some fan mail atmysticalmermaidelounge at
buzzsprout.com or email usdirectly at
mysticalmermaidelounge atyahoo.com Finally, we do not
accept sponsorships or ads sothat we may bring a less
distracting message to ourlisteners.
(45:00):
So, if you are just aspassionate as we are about
educating and supportingspiritual seekers then please
brew some tea or joe and pour usa cup at buymeacoffee.com
forward slash mystical mermaidlounge thanks again and catch us
(45:21):
at the next high tide bye
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