127 From Grover Cleveland to Modern Parallels

Send us a text

Ever had a perfectly innocent morning vote turn into a full-blown drama series? Well, grab your popcorn, because Jon's story starts like a Hallmark movie—he breezes into the polling station, votes early, feels powerful, maybe even a little heroic, basking in the glow of democracy. Meanwhile, Matt's day takes a sharp left turn—he finds out his voter registration is as active as a sloth on a lazy Sunday. No vote for you, buddy! It's a plot twist so shocking, it might as well have been written by M. Night Shyamalan.

As we dive into the chaos, we start questioning the very fabric of our voting systems—how reliable is anything, really? Can we even trust a website that’s 80% "are you sure you're not a robot?" After that, we have some fun with the bizarre legalities of photographing your ballot. Is it a secret snapshot or a crime scene photo? Who knows! And just when you think things can't get any weirder, we play out a fantasy where Kamala Harris is president and Donald Trump is her Vice President. Yes, that Donald Trump. It's like pairing a chainsaw with a feather duster—oddly fascinating, but you wouldn’t trust them to put together Ikea furniture.

In the midst of all this, we also take a deep dive into historical oddities, like Grover Cleveland—yes, that Grover Cleveland—who served two non-consecutive terms, because apparently, that’s a thing now. 

We then take a serious turn (don’t worry, we’ll bring the laughs back soon), examining the economic drama of the late 19th century through Grover Cleveland’s facepalm-worthy handling of the Panic of 1893. And because no historical rabbit hole is complete without a modern twist, we throw in comparisons to today's figures like Trump and Elon Musk. Because who doesn’t want to add a little chaos to their morning?

And finally, we wrap up with a moment of reflection on the terror of the 2002 Beltway sniper attacks, remembering how fear turned into courage as Washington DC held its breath. It’s a somber note, but hey, we’ve covered a lot of ground.

Join us for this rollercoaster ride of politics, history, and chaos. You’ll laugh, you’ll think, you’ll probably wonder if we’ve lost our minds—but that’s just part of the fun.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You ready, let's roll with it.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey fans, I think I went a little too early with
that intro and the countdowndidn't start yet, so welcome to
another installment of theNailing History podcast.
The post first.
Like I know, snl talks about it, it's our post election episode

(00:43):
.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
We finally made it here, fans, and we are stoked,
happy to have you back.
Welcome, great episode.
They should be happy to have usback.
I think we all need a littlehumility in our lives after this
election season.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, fans, you should be happy to have us back.
Touche, we're happy you'relistening matt and I are happy
to be back with you yeah, um,how was uh voting, john, did you
get out there?

Speaker 1 (01:16):
voting was good.
Yeah, so I polls opened.
For any of you out there whovoted the day of.
They did well.
A lot of people were doingearly voting.
A lot of people were doingmailing in.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
This isn't your grandpa's election anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Nope, not grandpa's election.
So there's multiple ways ofdoing it, but I decided to wake
up at the crack of dawn and,yeah, I got there.
I think I got to my pollingstation at 20 to 7, like 20
minutes before the polls opened,and I was the third person in
line.
And then, yeah, I got in, gotout and it was great.

(01:53):
How was yours?

Speaker 2 (01:58):
I had an experience.
Actually, I don't know if I'vetold you this.
I think I might be keeping itjust to get it out there.
Most people I think probablymost of our fans have told this
too.
Personally, I don't know ifI've told you, though, I had an
experience at the polls.
I was unaware what happened.
I think you might know that andthe fans might not know.

(02:20):
I don't know if we talked aboutthis on air, but I had checked.
So all these commercials, theseelection polls, all these
election commercials one of themwas like make sure you go out
and vote because your votinghistory is public record.
So you don't want your friendsand family to see that you don't

(02:40):
vote.
So I was curious when they sayvoting history, is it like how
often you vote?
Do you know who they voted for?
I didn't know exactly what allwas on the record.
So I'm like, let me look it up.
So I looked it up, and I lookedup my voting record, and my
voting record said that myregistration status was inactive
, which was strange, because Ijust thought that was strange.

(03:04):
I actually had recently updatedmy registration for the 2020
election.
I updated my party, I think,and maybe.
Yeah, well, I had to do myaddress a little bit before that
and I think I updated my partyand then I voted in 2020.
I think I voted in 2022.
But I was like I don't know whymy status would be inactive.

(03:27):
I I've googled it andapparently, if you don't vote
within five years, your voter,your registration status,
automatically goes inactive.
Okay, but you can still vote.
That's what this website said.
So I was like, okay, that'sweird, because I did vote.
So I mean, I'm not going to.
Does it just re-trigger?

Speaker 3 (03:48):
your vote.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
I'm not going to conspirize.
Is that a word, I'm not goingto conspirize?
But it sure sounds like my votehasn't been counted in the last
couple elections.
But neither here nor therecounted in the last couple
elections, but neither here northere.
I go to the polling by pollingplace and I get up to the.
I get up to the desk where theyhave the book and the old
people are you know whovolunteer are there and she's

(04:11):
like what's your name?
And I was like I told my nameand I saw my last name, like I
always do.
And then I she opens the book,she flips to it and in like
watermark in my box where myname is, it says inactive.
And I'm like, oh, so this?
So I'm like waiting in line.
I didn't wait super long inline, but there was a line in
front of me and there was a linebehind me, so there were a lot

(04:32):
of people.
There were decent amount ofpeople in my polling place.
This lady at the book goes hey,jerry, we got an inactive voter
over here.
Jerry, inactive, what do we do?
Uh-oh, I'm like, wow, it was sohumiliating.
I'm like, I'm like it's hot andit was hot in there, but I
could tell I was getting likeflushed.

(04:54):
I was so embarrassed.
Everyone's like oh, this choochdoesn't vote.
Oh man or didn't check it forthis, finally decide it, finally
decided to get off his butt andvote.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
Election of our lifetime.
As they say, Every four yearswe live through one, and this
guy didn't even have a time tocheck if he was an active voter
or not.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
No, I checked.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
And it just so happened that the day that I
checked was the day after thetime where you could register or
update your information so youwouldn't have been inactive.
I just didn't think I had to doanything.
I don't know why I was inactive.
It doesn't make any sense.
But then full disclosure thiswas the first time that I voted
where in Pennsylvania.

(05:37):
I know everyone does thingsdifferently, but in Pennsylvania
you fill out bubbles.
It's basically like in highschool when we had the Scantron.
You fill out like bubbles andbase.
It's basically like in highschool when we had the scantron.
You you fill out the bubbles inpen.
I wish we had pencils, but wehad pen and um, this was the
first time that somebodyactually helped me put the sheet
in the scanner.
Every other time it was justlike a self service, like put

(05:58):
your sheet in the scanner.
So I'm thinking maybe I didn'tdo that right.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
It's possible in previous times and they had it
and they were recording.

Speaker 2 (06:09):
You like this year there was a guy there was.
This year there was a guy whohelped me.
He's like put it face down andthrough the scanner.
He's like wait to make surethat the screen says you know
your vote's been counted andthen we're good to go.
And I don't remember doing anyof that do you remember putting

(06:31):
it anywhere?

Speaker 1 (06:31):
I put it in.

Speaker 2 (06:32):
I put it I put I put it in the scanner, but I really
think I probably put a.
Maybe I put it face side up andthen I just walk out of there.
I mean, I want to get in andout so that I just I should
shoot it through there and justleave.
I think that's like impossible,though, but that thought

(06:52):
crossed my mind once I starteddoing this with the, with the
helper.
I'm like, maybe this is why myvote hasn't counted in the last
four years.
Maybe that's why they werehelping, because it was kind of
weird.
They were just like here's'syour paper.
Go ahead, okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
Yeah, I don't remember much drama.
I mean, yeah, I was a thirdperson in, I voted.
I had to go up.
There was a guy standing at thescanner but he really didn't
tell me front or back, he justput it here and took it in.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
But I guess their rule is they can't touch it Is.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
But I guess their rule is they can't touch it.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Is that the rule?
I don't think that would help.
I mean, he was kind of likeputting his hands back like oh
no, that's you.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
It's a sacred vote you got in your hands.
I can't touch that I can'tdesecrate it.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yeah, so just anyone out there.
If your registration isinactive, you might want to
check before it turns over orbefore.
Make sure that you're activeduring the registration phase,
even if you think you are,because you certainly don't want
to show up to the polls as aninactive voter because you'll be
ousted in front of everybodyand then somebody like Jerry
will come up to you and say yougot to come with me.

(07:58):
Then I had to walk back toanother table.
I had to fill out an affidavitsaying that I still vote, and
I'm saying like well, terry, Imean I voted.
I don't understand.
He's like it's not that big ofa deal, just here.
And I'm like sure it's not thatbad.
I mean I didn't think it wasthe time or place to start
saying like what's up with myvote Not getting counted.

(08:19):
But I was just like well, it'skind of a big deal.
I don't understand why I aminactive.
But he's like don't worry aboutit.
I'm like okay, so I'm like allright, so I sign it.
I'm like man, it is hot in here.
We were in the basement of a Notthe basement but a first floor
of a nursing home.
There was no air conditioning.
I was like man.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
It's hot in here o'clock you guys are there for
one day.
I'm glad we're keeping ourelderly in a nursing home well,
I'm assuming we were in like itwas like in, like the.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
It was like it was like in the kitchen or like the
I don't know, it was weird.
It was weird those places.
Of course I can't vote her toschool, heaven forbid.
I have to go to some rink.
I mean, this place was a dump,it was a dump.
I'll be honest, if I'm, if youknow my grandkids, if I ever
have them, send me to this place.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
I'm jumping out the window, well, like the misda
misda lady and, uh, happygilmore well, I, yeah, I I'm
sorry for your experience, butI'm happy that Jerry helped you.
I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Jerry was very helpful.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Thanks, jerry, you could have been more.
He was sweating under thecollar, literally and probably
figuratively.
I mean working a pole,especially in a swing state like
Pennsylvania.
I feel like you've got thatmuch more pressure on you.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
I couldn't imagine.

Speaker 1 (09:44):
I know, what's happening here for the major.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
I couldn't imagine if it was Dude.
If that happened to I'm notgoing to use any terms here, but
if that happened to a prettyinvested voter, I guess you
could say or a very proud, oneway or the other.
I'm kind of in the middle andwhatever.

(10:08):
But if it was anyone who leansin either direction and they
were hot about it, especiallysome who might not have thought
that the 2020 election wasnecessarily valid if that would
have happened to a staunch oneof those oh man, jerry would
have been in for it.
You're trying to steal it again.
You're trying to steal it.

(10:29):
I know what you guys are up to.
I know what you guys are up to.
It does seem like Luckily helucked out it was me, because I
was like whatever.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
But it would have just been activated as soon as
you voted.
I'm sure it's like you're indone yeah, well, it is like it
wasn't.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
It wasn't a big deal.
I luckily I had checkedbeforehand, so I knew I was
expecting.
I was hoping it wasn't gonna bethat bad, but I was expecting
some kind of issue and uh, soluckily.
But if I, if it was likesomebody who's a little bit
crazier than me about it andwasn't expecting it, Do you have

(11:09):
any eats at your pollingstation?

Speaker 1 (11:10):
I don't know if places are allowed to or not,
but did you get a cookie or juststickers?

Speaker 2 (11:15):
They had eats for the volunteers.
It looks like they had a nicespread out on the table.
It was weird dude.
It was like a basically utilityroom that we were in.
It was just a total dump.
It was weird dude.
It was like a basically utilityroom that we were in.
It was just a total dump.
It was horrible.
I felt bad for those people,but that's what they get for
volunteering.
What are you getting out ofthat?

Speaker 1 (11:34):
That's a good question.
Yeah, I was in an elementaryschool auditorium.
I had some nice breathing room.
I felt pretty good.

Speaker 2 (11:44):
Did you take a picture of your ballot?
I certainly did.
I'm always wondering if that'slegal or not.
I googled it.
Apparently not every.
It's not legal in every stateto like post your ballot online
and especially, I don't know, Idon't know, like I guess.
No, I mean, I don't thinkyou're ever gonna like they're
actually ever going to get introuble because they don't want

(12:05):
you using the actual ballot asan influence to vote.

Speaker 1 (12:17):
I saw a ton of them.
I don't think anyone's going toget too up in arm about my
particular ballot.
I'll leave it at that.
A few write-ins here and thereif I'm being totally honest with
our fans.
Um and a lot of no's, sonothing to really write home
about.
It was more of a protest vote.
If I'm being quite honest withyou, I think I can at least tell

(12:38):
that I'm sure you really, youreally got your point across.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I'm sure I'm sure everyone's like, wow, it seems
like it's seen.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I mean I was watching the popular vote.
I mean I was following it allthrough election day, which I'm
sure we'll get into, but I thinkI think they track it.
I think it's actually to thevote and I think my guy is is
somewhere out there.
He's on the roll in marylandand some of our fans may know
him.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
You know what I was thinking like.
What if you would have donesomething like voted for Kamala?
What if this was a thing itwould never in a million years
happen, although it could be apretty funny movie?
What if everybody decided tovote for Kamala for this example
, for this election, kamalaHarris for president and Donald
Trump for vice president andthat won?
Would that happen?

Speaker 1 (13:23):
And also, I guess it would right well, I mean, I
guess if it would kind of goback to the beginning, a little
bit like the founding of thecountry.
Before we voted separately forpresident and vice president.
Just whoever got the mostelectoral votes was president
and the second most was vicepresident.
And yeah, they were fromdifferent parties john John

(13:44):
Adams and Thomas Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Right, but I'm just saying would they be forced to
work together?
If everybody voted that way,it'd be kind of funny.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
Can you imagine?
I don't know if you can declinelike that?
I mean, obviously, if you win,you won it because you've been
campaigning to win with yourchosen running mate, but if
you're voted in in anothercombination with somebody else,
I don't know if you can.
Can you decline?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:05):
no, I didn't want to win and also like, if it was
just the right end and youdidn't run and you're like you
won, would you be able to saylike, nah, probably, I guess
that would be never.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
I mean, there was a movie with jack lemon, and I
forget the other actor's namecalled my fellow americans.
I don't know if you've everseen that there are're two
former presidents.
It came out in the 90s.
Yes, you've seen it.
They're on the run and one's aDemocrat, one's a Republican.
So basically, these two formerpresidents from different
parties, I think they campaignedagainst one another in like two

(14:36):
different campaigns One won oneelection, another won the other
election and the third election.
They both got voted out.
But then I guess they cameacross this information, they
knew some state secrets orwhatever, or, and they were
basically on the run.
They had a like the deep state,effectively from the next term,
from the next administration,kind of came after them and so

(14:57):
these guys are end up togetherand they have to kind of, you
know, run through the forest andthey're basically just on the
loose into comedy.
But I remember the scene.
It's not good.
It's not good, but it's kind oflike, I know, at the end of the
film.
I don't want to give a spoilerbecause it's such a great movie
and I don't fancy gonna see it,but I remember there was a scene
where they end up at like a, ata wizard of oz, like uh oh, a

(15:20):
little bimetallism maybe.
Well, not the bi-metalism wizardof oz, like dorothy, like fan
club engine, like everyone's indrag dressed up as dorothy
convention and one of the guysthat they bump into it turns out
that he's like in his real job,is like a sniper for the, for
the white house, and he likesaves their lives.
You like shoot somebody laterin the movie because they're

(15:41):
like nice to him, and then hesaves their lives and Then they
end up running together At theend of the movie they run
together.
They're like who's president,who's vice president?
Oh, we don't know.
Then, basically, one tricks theother one to pick a quarter up.
Then he's like oh, my fellowAmericans, that's how he becomes
president.
Maybe that's how they would doit if Kamala and Donald were

(16:02):
elected.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
That it if kamala and donald were elected.
So that's exactly how it wouldgo.
It was the 90s anything waspossible.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
The world was all of our oyster.
So there were a couple thingsyou know john and I were talking
about.
What can we do?
I don't really want to talk toomuch about the election because
I think everyone's kind of overit, but you know, we kind of.
We just wanted to.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Kind of tie into any historical events.
I think we had quite aprominent moment.
We had an occurrence thathasn't happened in over 150.
Even a while 20, 30, 40 years,I don't know when the 130.
It's only the second time it'sever happened.

Speaker 2 (16:41):
Yeah, so we had Donald Trump won and he's the
second president to ever winnon-consecutive terms.
And I always thought that Ijust remember in elementary
school, all the presidents, thenames of all the presidents and
their portraits were all listedacross the top of the room and I

(17:03):
always remember looking atgrover cleveland and just like
man, what happened there?
Like you lose, what are youdoing?
You're gonna run again.
Like I just thought it was soabsurd that somebody would do
that and, uh, we got it again.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, it's just great , it's just so great, but he was
, he was a popular guy.
He was a popular guy.
He was a popular guy.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, yeah, so it got me just thinking like well, I
don't know much about GroverCleveland, so I figured just
let's see what I can learn abouthim.
Maybe there's some similaritiesto the elections, anything like
that.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
Well he was as Matt had said.
He was the first president towin two non-consecutive terms.
But what made that particularlystand out was that he won as a
Democrat at a time whenDemocrats were kind of seen more
as the small government partyand a lot of their support was
in the South but there wereNorthern Democrats as well.
But he was known before he evencame into the presidency for

(18:08):
cleaning up corruption.
That was kind of his big thing.
When he was governor of NewYork and mayor of Buffalo he
would always keep his door openand whenever he had someone come
into his office who was tryingto have him engage in graft or
some form of corruption whichwas definitely what happened
back in his times it was prettyopenly done.
He made a point of kind ofraising his voice and yelling at

(18:31):
them and telling them out oftheir office to say, like
corruption will not be happeninghere.
In his first term in office oneof the major things he ran on
was kind of taking corruptionout of the pension system which
was developing.
So a lot of former unionveterans from the civil war
everyone and their mother seemedto be claiming a pension, um

(18:53):
from even injuries that weren'tsustained during the war.
Um, this was a time, you know.
I mean nowadays, if you servein the armed forces, you're
going to get something, you knowsee, maybe a small pension or
kind of some additional benefit.
But back then it was like, youknow, if you weren't actually
injured, you know, you weren'tgoing to get much.
So, yeah, he made a big pointof vetoing a ton of bills that

(19:17):
came before his desk looking forpensions for these Union
soldiers desk looking forpensions for these Union
soldiers.
He came online in the 1880s whenthe Republican Party was the
machine that ran all politics inAmerica.
The Southern Democrats werestill licking their wounds from

(19:38):
the Civil War, but the North waseffectively run by Republicans,
and a lot of these Republicanswere super corrupt, led by
people like James Blaine, led bypeople like Roscoe Conkling of
New York.
I believe Ulysses S Grant'seight-year administration was
extremely corrupt and so, by thetime he comes around, no one

(20:02):
thought a Democrat could reallybreak in to the Republican
stronghold.
And he did.
He was very popular.
He was a leader of the BourbonDemocrats, which basically they
stood for opposition to hightariffs, which is a little
different to Mr Trump.
They stood against free silver,inflation, imperialism,

(20:27):
subsidies to businesses, farmersand veterans.
So I mean big, small government.
He was a small government guyto the core, anti-corruption In
my personal opinion, one of thebest presidents ever, if we're
going to grade him by his oathto defend and uphold the
Constitution.
And yeah, he won the popularvote all three elections he was

(20:52):
in.
So he won non-consecutive terms.
But in the election in betweenthose terms he lost the
Electoral College but he didn'twin the popular vote.
So each election he was in hewon that popular vote.
And uh, yeah, he was.
He was a beast for sure.
So I don't know how much moreyou want about his early days.

(21:15):
He was a lawyer from buffalofor a while and did a lot of
other stuff.
He was a bachelor when hejoined the white house.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
When he went into the white house and he married, I
think it was 47 when he gotmarried and his bride was like
21 and he knew her since she waslike a baby, yeah, so, um, it's
a little weird.
Yeah, she was.
He met her when he was a baby.
When he was 27 years old he methis future wife.
She was the daughter of his lawpartner, close friend, oscar

(21:48):
folsom, which we'll get back tohim in a bit.
Um, but yeah, she called himuncle cleve, which is funny two
things.
His actual name was steven, soit's kind of funny to go by
uncle cleve, which is kind oflike uncle steve, but that's
funny.
And I think people like, maybehe didn't go by, maybe you
didn't go by steven, because,like, steven cleveland is like a

(22:09):
ridiculous name anyway, like,so, basically, he met her when
he was a, when she was like ababy.
Her name's francis, so francisfolsom.
Uh, when she turned 11, her oldold man, oscar Folsom, died in
a carriage accident because hewas like a neurotic driver and
then, with no will, prepared,like so, grover Cleveland took

(22:33):
over their family's estate andOscar Folsom's wife just assumed
that he was going to marry thegirl.
So I was like, while he wasrunning, people were like, oh,
why are you single?
He's like oh, I'm just waitingfor my bride to grow up, which
was laughed off as a joke, butthen he got engaged to her and

(22:53):
married her five days later inthe White House.
That's freaking creepy as heck.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
Well, he was president at that time, so maybe
she wasn't that creeped out byit.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
And she was kind of hot, I think, and she was like
People loved her.
She was kind of the first ladyto be like To reach celebrity
status, I believe.
Yeah, and I guess that couldhave to do with being married
while you were in the WhiteHouse, so there was probably a
whole thing.
I think.
If a president was to getmarried now while they're in the
White House, that would be ahuge event, because people treat

(23:32):
the presidents like kingsanyway.
I was just interested in likelooking into the whole election
and like, like I said, you knowhe had, he won, lost, won again,
um, and I'm trying to see anysimilarities there.
Um, but just looking into thething, when he ran for office
the first time against jamesaine, who John mentioned was the
Republican candidate who waskind of known to be a corrupt

(23:52):
person, but the Republicans soeverybody has a thing to try to
get the president-elect caughtup in some scandal, so to say.
So the Republicans tried to dothat by accusing him of
fathering an illegitimate child.

(24:13):
So there was a possibility thathe had fathered a child out of
wedlock with some woman and thatwas a big deal, obviously in
1874.
So everyone was like a big deal, obviously in 1874.
So everyone was like, oh, youknow he's a, you know he's a bad
guy fathered an illegitimate,illegitimate child, um, but he
was kind of like, yeah, uh, justtell him the truth.

(24:35):
Yeah, I might have I'm not sure, though, it could either be me
or it could be my old lawpartner, I'm not sure, just tell
him the truth, whatever.
And, uh, that actually helpedhim win the elect.
People, a lot of people thinkthat actually helped him win the
election, because people kindof looked at it like, wow, some
guys it's finally owning up tohis nonsense.
Um, their whole, the asrepublicans, as republicans, um,

(24:59):
so the way that they did it inthe election, the whole, like
you know, trying to burn him,republicans would say, mama,
where's my pa?
That was their like chant, liketo go against him, and the
Democrats would go back headedto the white house.
Ha ha ha.
That's awesome dude, that'spretty like that's like.

(25:20):
That's like those are the goodold days, I mean.
And then they would also.
The Democrats would alsorespond with Blaine Blaine,
James G Blaine, the continentalliar from the state of Maine.
Dude, there was some cleverstuff going on back then.
Definitely nothing like thatanymore.
It seems like.

Speaker 1 (25:39):
No yeah.
No, no, no, no, no no no, no,no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, no.
Quote-isms and kind ofmemorable slogans of yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Yeah, Even like I mean that even went into the 60s
and 80s, I feel Even in the 80s, I think there were some good
slogans.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
I can't think of any off the top of my head.
You know what was Ike forEisenhower?
You know just like.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Quotable but anyway.
But like he With thisillegitimate child, he just he
provided child support for thiskid.
He just took a and then heultimately just paid to get him
into an orphanage.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Oh, I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
I mean, it is what it is.

Speaker 1 (26:16):
He's got his own wife now.
She's young.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
That was all before.
Yeah, yeah, pretty wild.
Yeah, he won that firstpresidential's election.
Even though he won the popularvote, he was.
It was a close win.
He had the flip or he only wonthis.
What swung the election was newyork going democratic with 1200
votes.
That was the big change.
So basically one with 1200votes.

(26:40):
And then, when they left thewhite house after the first term
, francis cleveland's wife saidto the said to somebody at the
white house I want you to take agood care of everything.
I want to find the same waywhen we come back and we will be
back in four years, mike dropshe knew she had.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
She had a finger in the air, she knew what was going
on.
I mean, it was close.
What did he lose?
Like I said, he won the popularvote against Benjamin Harrison
in 1888, who himself probablyran on the ticket of being hey,
I'm a grandson of a formerpresident, he was the grandson
of William Henry Harrison.
He won.

(27:24):
Well, I guess he didn't win bymuch, but won the popular vote
by a thousand votes, it lookslike in 1888, not by a whole lot
.
Yeah, the total popular votebetween him and benjamin
harrison was a difference oflike a thousand votes across the

(27:44):
country.
No, a hundred thousand votes.
Sorry, excuse me, a hundredthousand votes, it's not a lot
yeah, I mean imagine um imagine.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
That that happened, I would have taken forever to
call oh my gosh, we'd never bethe end of it.
So the thing that the one hugedifference between the two um
the grover, cleveland and um andthis and donald trump winning.
So he beat blaine in his firstelection.
He lost to harrison in hissecond election.
So he beat blaine in his firstelection.
He lost to harrison in hissecond election.
But he beat harrison's thirdelection.

(28:17):
Right and then, yeah, that's itfor this third election.
Um, it was actually a superquiet and people say that it was
one of the cleanest, quietestand most credible election in
the memory of the cleanest,quietest and most credible
election in the memory of thepost-war generation.
So that's a big contrastbetween what's going on now and

(28:41):
what happened this year, basedon how long it was.
All the freaking craziness thathappened over the summer,
mainly because of that, wasHarrison's wife was dying of
tuberculosis, so Harrison didn'teven campaign at all and she
died two weeks before theelection.
So it was a super somber event.

(29:03):
Everyone was kind of like Iguess it was not a.
There was no rah-rah oranything surrounding it.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:14):
So then, another example of where it's a little
bit of a similar situation tothis election that you can
compare to with Grover Clevelandis he was going to run for
another.
He was going to run for thenext election, but at the
Democratic Convention in 1896,the party was like, nah, you're

(29:38):
good, like he was going to.
He was going to run again as ademocratic nominee, and at the
convention they were like, nah,you're, we're good, and it was
mostly based on something thatwe talked about on the podcast
in the past.
The whole bimetallism debatewas a big deal and uh, cleveland
was like super on board withsticking with the gold standard,
which was similar to therepublicans.

(29:59):
But the democrats were kind of,they were felt as though they
were more of the uh party forthe people of agriculture, where
they really wanted to to getthat bimetallism and include uh,
silver.
So, um, william jennings brian,during the democratic convention

(30:20):
, made this huge speech aboutcan't hang us on a cross of gold
or something like really probimetallism, and that really got
the attention in the backing ofthe democratic party.
So they said, uh, see ya,cleveland, we'll take william
jennings brian, um, and uh, yeah, he was the first and only
president to be repudiated byhis own party, which then I was

(30:42):
trying to think that was thisarticle.
I don't know where I read thathe was the first and only, and I
don't know.
Do you consider biden have beenhave it, having been repudiated
by his party?

Speaker 1 (30:56):
It's close.
It's close.
They kind of banded.
I wouldn't say that was thefirst time either.
I think John Tyler wouldprobably qualify under that too.
I mean, he was basically kickedout.
He was kicked out of the Whigshe was elected with.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Wayne Henry.
Yeah, so that's why I don'tknow if that means like at the
convention.
I think that's kind of whatthey were getting at, because I
guess it was like he was goingto the, I don't know like the
convention now is mostly like oh, you're getting the nomination,
but I don't know if at somepoint it was like you would go
to the convention and these andyou would actually like multiple
people would go up.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
I don't know they had open ballots?
Yeah, they would actually be.
They're casting votes on whothey want.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
If it was, if it was too close to call, they would
just have like now it's justlike it's already a point and
then you just go to theconvention and get the official
nomination.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
If there was any time to ever have it.
I feel like, in recent memory,this past one for the democrats
would have been a pretty goodtime too, considering, like I
mean, benjamin so big thing that.
So when Harrison came into hissecond non-consecutive term, he
basically walked into the panicof 1893.
Cleveland.
Cleveland, excuse me, hebasically walked into it and of

(32:02):
course he was in power when itofficially happened.
So he copped the blame like hisadministration was blamed for
it.
Americans even at that timeprobably had a relatively short
memory and they thought thethings the previous
administration were doing reallygood.
So it's really unfortunate thathe had not a consecutive term,
because in those four yearsunder benjamin harrison we got
the silver, the sherman silverpurchase act of 1890, which kind

(32:26):
of gave the steam, a little bitof steam to you know what
william, what, uh, williamjennings, bryan and the farmer
populists would really use toeffectively hijack the
Democratic Party, like you said,at the 1896 convention.
But the Republicans wereactually the one who were first
inflationary and then issuingsilver purchase and whatnot.

(32:52):
And I think by the time 1896rolled around I think McKinley
just was like, hey, well, we canjust do, we'll just take the
gold mantle because we needsomething to differentiate us
from the Democrats, but we'restill going to be the high
protection side.
So the Republicans were alwaysthe pro-tariff side and
effectively, like GroverCleveland and the the

(33:12):
conservative democrats I meanlike conservative, like small
government, anti-corruption, Imean they were they were pushed
out and in my opinion we haven'thad like a real conservative
party that you know, that speaksto.
You know, federalism as it wascrafted by the founding fathers
since, like that, since grovercleveland, in my opinion, like

(33:33):
that election, like thedemocrats never looked back from
1896.
They just became more and moreprogressive and they became the
party which they are now, whichthey're not conservative like.
So a republican like donaldtrump can run on, you know, he
could play a playbook from 100,160 year old playbook of running
on high tariffs andprotectionism, one because

(33:54):
they've done it before.
But also he could still play alittle bit of the conservative
element, but he's notconservative in the way that a
Grover Cleveland would have been.
And yeah, a lot of tumultuousstuff happened in those years,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
It was crazy.
I mean I feel like we're justrepeating history at this.
Sure, it was crazy.
I mean it's just like I feellike we're just repeating
history at this point.
Yeah, terrifying.
So many things that we'retalking about, so many things
that we've talked about on thisepisode of Nailing.
History is not exactly the same, but it's so similar.
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
We were printing money and we wanted tariffs, and
if we weren't doing that, wewere pushing with imperialism
and sticking our noses in otherparts of the world where they
may or may not belong.
Which imperial presidencystarted back in this time period
too, with McKinley?

Speaker 2 (34:51):
William McKinley.
So then, like I said, theDemocrats bounced Grover
Cleveland.
Grover Cleveland then decidedto support a third party called
the Gold Democrats, which isbasically Democrats that
supported Gold Standard.
They got smoked.
They only had about 100,000votes in that election and
William McKinley crushed theDemocrats big time.

(35:14):
It was a huge win and yeah, sosome interesting things came out
of that.
Grover Cleveland was also thesecond largest president.

Speaker 1 (35:32):
Yes, after Taft.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
After Taft, who we know.
Taft couldn't even fit into abathtub.
We learned that in an episodebefore yeah, cleveland lost a
lot of esteem in I think for notI think for holding it to your
end.
I think he lost a lot of esteemat the end of his presidency
for not using the government tohelp bail people out of the

(35:59):
economic struggles yeah, well,and he also, I think he caught a
little flat.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
he might have gotten a little flack, certainly from
the populist and the free silverrights like william jennings,
brian, uh, for basically havinga one-on-one meeting with JP
Morgan, the financier who youknow at that time we talked
about that basically helped stemthe, the, the, the problem of
the panic of 1893.
Yeah, it probably just doesn'tlook good to a lot of people,

(36:25):
you know.
So this whole like billionairesand all the, even the same
talking points, I feel like werewhat really kind of motivated
people you know relying, I feellike, are what really kind of
motivated people you knowrelying on billionaires to, you
know have their connections andand have their sway, kind of
like Elon Musk now withpresident Trump and in fact
maybe people would say JP Morganwith Grover Cleveland.
I think the comparisons aren'tvery similar.

(36:48):
I think there was, you know, wedidn't have a federal reserve
banking system back then.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
We needed.
I just think, like obviouslywe're not going to get hand in
hand, but it is.
It's.
It's kind of eerie, thesimilarities there.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
And we're the only ones bringing it up, we're only,
we're the only ones talkingabout it I mean, I think grover
cleveland is probably almostobjectively to say that he was
more reputable than donald yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
I'm sure I'm not saying that either.
I'm saying just the wholenon-executive term, all this
stuff.
He also had cancer in his mouth.
He was a big cigar smoker.
He got mouth cancer and hewanted to hide the surgery from
the people from the people ofthe government, I guess, to not
show weakness.
I think this was during hissecond term, so while he was

(37:36):
planning on running for a thirdterm, he didn't want people to
see that.
So he got a surgery on like ariver cruise.
He went, he like said he wasgoing on a vacation on a cruise
and got surgery on there.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
The tumors in the Mudders Museum in Philadelphia.
Nuh-uh yeah, it is the Mudders.
Nah yeah, it is the muttersmuseum.
Is that not mutters mute?
Not the mummers mummers museum?
Sorry, yeah, like with all theoddities and stuff, it's there
for sure.
It's in a jar, it's there.
I mean it's liquefied orwhatever they would have done to
preserve it that's disgustingpart of our history.

Speaker 2 (38:09):
It's part of our yeah , so when you guys are looking
at you know, I think there'sinterestingly a lot of
similarities there.
I don't know, that's all I haveto say, but I guess you could
say that for I don't know kindof any election or whatever.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Well, they didn't give up the fight.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
You know it, just you know he's related to the guy
that uh, cleveland ohio is namedafter.
I did.
I was reading that.

Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, I don't know how far the relationship went.
He must have just been such astraight shooter in his personal
life and political life thatenough people saw that and were
like, wow, this guy is like.

Speaker 2 (38:48):
That's what I'm saying about elections now.
Man.
I mean, how much would youappreciate if somebody, if a
president, would say at onepoint yeah, that didn't work out
, that great, probably couldhave done that differently.
How much would you appreciatethat sense of honesty and
ownership of your actions?
Then I don't know what you'retalking about.
Or just total yeah, I thinkthat's a big.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
That's what I would want as a president, somebody
who can own up to his flaws,because in my opinion, if you
don't own up to him, you'llnever learn from him yeah, also,
I don't think grover cleaver'sbeen a chance to get on, be on a
hot mic in a bus with billybush on axis from axis hollywood
at any given time in hishistory.
So I think, like I'm sure hesaid, off the cuff stuff.
Um, he did marry him.

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Oh, that's weird.
He married someone that he knewwhen she was a child and that's
probably raised some eyebrows.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
I think even that I'm sure people were like that's
odd.
But again, I don't know, Idon't know if they could, but
then at the time I don't know.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
People dude for somebody to say to you like hey,
why aren't you married?
And he's like, oh, I'm justwaiting for my wife to grow up.
What kind of answer is that?

Speaker 1 (40:02):
An honest one, you know honest but mildly creepy.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
That's true, I mean we're talking, we?
True, I mean we're talking,we're talking.
Jerry lee lewis level weirdnessman, remember him.
He showed up to the us with alike a 13 year old wife, or no
europe, I mean he let that oneslip.

Speaker 1 (40:24):
Yeah, definitely, just let that one slip.
They were just there on stageand people were thinking like,
is that his, like niece, likewho is that?
Who is this girl?
And then you're like, oh, mywife and I remember that on vh1
there was a whole documentary onit.
Like he just slipped or she's.
I don't know if he said it orshe said it, but they were like
this is my husband said it.
We talked about on the podcast.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
Now, you don't remember that?

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I remember we talked about jerry lee lewis.
But was that this week inhistory?
Yeah, I got to go back andlisten to the old cuts.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
Yeah, you're going to have to listen to that episode.
I think the title Jerry LeeLewis married who, oh yeah?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
It's all coming back to me.
Good old days, those were thebest, that was the best.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
Speaking of this week in history, combined with John
not remembering things.
I got a little one here.
Let me hit the bumper here,real quick.
This week in history.
This week in history missedthis man this week in history,

(41:43):
this week in history.
This week.
It is not long enough, if youask me it is certainly not.

(42:03):
I got to write lyrics to thatlittle rap.
But so I'm bringing back thisweek in history just because I
was just so shocked and, besidemyself, john and I were, uh,
talking about what we were goingto do this episode.
We're going to do this week inhistory, we're going to do some
election coverage, whatever, and, um, I brought up a part of

(42:25):
history that I thought he wasn'tgoing to be super down with
because it was too recent and Ididn't think he'd be excited
about it.
But it turns out, even thoughit happened while we were in
high school, john doesn'tremember it at all.
And what I'm talking about is,on November 17, 2003, ex-soldier

(42:48):
John Muhammad was found guiltyof the first of a series of
sniper shootings that terrorizedthe Metro Washington DC area in
October 2002.
And John doesn't even rememberthe Washington area sniper Nope,
that was such a you don'tremember it at all?

Speaker 1 (43:09):
Not at all, not at all.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
We would have been ninth, ninth grade, ninth grade,
ninth grade, like asimpressionable as you probably
possibly could be.
Nope, you don't remember this.
You don't remember anything.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
I remember almost being in the capitol, there was
a shooting in like 97.
We were almost there, but Iwent to the library of congress
and said but no, I don'tremember this one.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
So there was just all these random shootings going on
in Washington DC and there werethree weeks in October that
this guy so no one knew what wasgoing on People were getting
shot pumping their gas.
They were getting shot inrandom parking lots, just sniped
and killed out of nowhere.
It was super random andeverybody was freaking out in

(43:54):
the Beltway area, the wholeBeltway, like Virginia, maryland
, dc, that whole areasurrounding DC.
No one knew what was going on.
I remember watching the newsand people were like so there
was all this panic.
Gas stations put up canopiesover their gas pumps.

(44:15):
People would hide behind theircars while they were pumping gas
or sit in their cars when theywere pumping gas.
I remember people wouldvolunteer to where they would
stand at gas stations withfluorescent lights so they would
get shot instead of some randomperson.
They were putting themselvesout there to protect other

(44:36):
people.
It was intense and nationalnews for three weeks.
Everybody was terrified.
I mean, what kind of life wereyou living at this time, don't
you remember?
Don't you remember they werelike oh, there's an Astrovan,
everyone's looking for a whiteAstrovan.
Oh, there's an Astrovan,everyone's looking for a white

(44:57):
Astrovan.
Because it was seen fleeing therelative area of a shooting.
And then we have a mutualfriend, a friend of the show,
who had an Astrovan and that wasa funny joke.
I remember waiting for somebodyto get.
I remember waiting withsomebody in high school this is
freshman year while this wasgoing on.
I remember waiting withsomebody in high school this was
freshman year, while this wasgoing on, while everyone was
looking for an Astrovan.
Another fellow student gotpicked up at an Astrovan.

(45:19):
There were three of us waitingout there.
He got picked up at an Astrovan.
We didn't know him at all, webarely knew him.
And he gets in there and assoon as he left we looked at
each other like, oh my God, he'sa list, he's a listener, the
guy that we, uh, we shared thatmoment with.

(45:41):
So hope he remembers that.
But then it turns out that itwas like this whole big thing,
these two guys it was anex-soldier, an adult, and then
he was he's bringing around withhim the 17 yearyear-old kid,
this 17-year-old Jamaican kid,and they were going all around
the country like raising heck,like doing crimes and everything
, and then finally got toWashington DC, which is where

(46:03):
they were from, which is wherethey started doing these snipers
.
They tricked out this 1990Chevy Caprice where they could
go prone in the car and have thegun pointed out of the the in
the car and like have the gunpointed out of the back of the
car, like at the trunk, and theywere like shooting people, like
that you don't remember any ofthat.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
I don't remember any of this.
Why aren't they making Netflixdocumentaries about this guy?
This seems a lot more like alot more interesting than and
the Menendez brothers.
Well, I've heard, I've heard ofthem, how, so I don't know,
just like other stories, I thinkthey probably.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
You know why Netflix probably hasn't done it.
It's because they're probablylike.
Everybody remembers that.
How about these guys who Iwould love to remember because I
don't I didn't do, I didn'tlook into if people were
actually I didn't do, I didn'tlook into like if people were
actually I didn't see anythingwhere people were actually doing
this.
But I remember people sayingI'm wearing bright colors just
to attract the sniper said theyshoot me like.
What kind of death wish do youhave doing that?

(47:02):
If that's like not being it, doyou think any, do you think
anybody would do that?
these days, no one can even openup a freaking door for you no
they can't even let you spendfive minutes by yourself at a at
an exhibit at harper's ferrybefore pushing you out of there
let alone somebody trying totake a bullet for just random
strangers let alone just movingin one seat on the, on the, on

(47:23):
the septa train, you know thatwas like that would be amazing
to me.
I would never do that seemslike these guys we were talking
vietnam era dudes are like I'lltake a bullet, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Maybe I forgot it, because it just seems like such
a faded place.
It seems like another worldthat you're describing to me,
that someone out there would puttheir risk, their life, for a
stranger People.
Just.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
I don't know if anybody remembers that and I
could be dreaming it.
I just remember that, thatbeing the case, I could see it,
but screaming it.
I just remember that, thatbeing the case, I could see it.
But yeah, so this guymanipulated this kid into
helping so they would take turnsshooting and stuff.
It was crazy.
It was a crazy, crazy time.
They caught them at a rest stopand if you ever want to see how

(48:08):
the car was set up, go on theWikipedia page for the DC sniper
attacks and there's a video andit is pretty funny.
It's these two ATF agents.
Go to the Wikipedia for the DCsniper attacks.
The bottom, in the motivesection, there's an embedded

(48:29):
video of the ATF agentsdemonstrating it and they're
dressing like I don't know whythey're dressed the way that
they are.
It's a funny video.
Is that popping out of the ATFedges demonstrating it?
And they're like dressing likeI don't know why they're dressed
the way that they are.
It's a funny thing popping outof the trunk here.
Yeah, that's what they did.
That's what I'm saying.
It was like.
It was like tricked out.
That's a.
Now, which would you ratherhave that Caprice or AJ Cowan's?

(48:51):
Bronco, not AJ, what was his orAJ Cowan's Bronco, not AJ.
What was?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
his name, al Cowan's.
Did they sell this one?
I?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
don't know, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (49:16):
Can I get?

Speaker 2 (49:17):
it registered in the state of maryland.
Oh, jersey plates.
Okay, the guy, the.
The guy, john muhammad, was afan of the matrix.
He was kind of, uh, he wastrying to extort the government
for 10 million dollars.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
That was his kind of his motive for the whole thing
oh wow, so they just literallyhad a guy that just the trunk
was Wow.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
The guy hanging out of the trunk.
It's a great video.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
It's a great video Also not necessary.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
How did they do it?
Well, they kind of just cut ahole in the back of the bottom
of the trunk where it latches.
I think it's cool to show.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Look at that.
At the end you see the gun gooff.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
That's crazy, that is wild.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
They killed 10 people and injured three in a
three-week span.
I mean obviously John Muhammad,who was the adult, the
ex-soldier.
He got executed and the kid gotsentenced life in prison.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
It says here several scenes of shootings.
Tarot cards were left ascalling cards, including one.
Yeah, they would leave likecalling cards and stuff to call
me god, on the front and on theback for you, mr police code.
Call me god, do not release tothe press.
And here I am reading it 20years later no, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Uh, I cannot believe.
You don't remember that that isabsurd at all.
How are they called.
Should we call?
Should we call not believe youdon't remember that.
That is absurd, not at all.
How are they called?
Should we call one fan and seeif they remember it?
Just go one for one See if wegot one.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
Don't be overly specific, just say DC sniper
attacks.
What was it?

Speaker 2 (50:51):
I'm picking our friend with the worst memory,
just so you know Our listenerwith the worst memory.

Speaker 3 (50:58):
Hello.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Hey, is this Andrew S ?

Speaker 3 (51:01):
This is Andrew S what's happening.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Hey, andrew S, it's Matt and John with the Nailing
History Podcast.
How's it going?

Speaker 3 (51:08):
I'm very honored to be called by you two Long time
fan.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
Yeah, we're surprising you with this one,
but it's a little bit of aneasier surprise question than
the last time we were on.
Okay, you got to settlesomething for us here, because I
am baffled by what we'regetting into on this episode.

Speaker 3 (51:29):
That's exciting stuff .
I can't wait to hear what it is.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Do you remember the?
Do you hear that?
I can't remember Exactly.
Well, this is a perfect example.
I hope this blows your mind.
Do you remember the time periodin October of 2002, with the

(51:52):
Washington area sniper attacks?

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Kind of oh my god, I know that that happened, but I
don't know.
Anything about it, because itwas what it was basically two
guys in the trunk of a plate.
They hollowed out the back oftheir car or whatever and they
were shooting through the trunk,right.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
Dude John doesn't remember it at all.
It's like it never happened.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Maybe I am in the Matrix, Sorry.

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Mr S.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
I never heard of it.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Can you believe that, andrew S?
It's unbelievable, this guy.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yeah, I'm kind of surprised by that, because that
was a few weeks long, if I'm notmistaken.
Like what?
15 people, maybe, somethinglike that.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Yeah, they killed 10 people during this time.
Overall, those two guys killed17 people.
So you're close.
We kind of just went throughthe whole thing, but I just
wanted to make sure that Iwasn't going crazy.
I mean, we were freshmen inhigh school.
I mean, you couldn't be moreimpressionable.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I was trying out for the wrestling team at our high
school.

Speaker 3 (52:59):
I was trying my best.
I had other things on my mind,too busy running laps in the
hallway with trash bags aroundyour.
You know I was wrestling in thelast year, Obviously cutting
weight?

Speaker 2 (53:08):
No, but that's illegal and doing it out in the
open.

Speaker 1 (53:11):
I'm also taking pictures of my ballot, so I
guess we're neither here northere.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
I think about that often.
You were literally runningthrough the halls of our high
school with trash bags around.
That's so not legal.
I don't know if it was then, Idon't know if it is now.
I feel like somebody shouldhave told you to stop.

Speaker 1 (53:29):
I mean, it was sanctioned by my coach.
I wasn't told not to do it, Imade weight.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Don't put it on anybody else.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
But anyway, I had other priorities.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Why is that?
Sorry, go ahead Dan.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
I was just saying I was just too busy making weight,
not paying attention to the24-hour news cycle.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
I just can't believe that it was pretty scary because
it was close.
I don't know if, andrew Andres,I mean, there were thoughts
that they might.
They had no idea they couldhave made it up our way.
You never know.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
I was not going to deal with that traffic.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (54:02):
Give me a break.
We'll do Baltimore goingthrough the tunnel.
Forget it, he wouldn't turn now.
No, not at all.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
If you were going on a night being spray, I don't
know if I'd want to stay in onespot for too long.
You know like get one city andthen move on do you remember?

Speaker 2 (54:23):
do you remember people like wearing fluorescent
colors, like wearing like safety, like vests and stuff to kind
of like draw attention andsaying like I'll take the bullet
instead of some random tryingto be safe for that, do you
remember that?

Speaker 3 (54:38):
That I don't remember .

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I don't know if I'm just, I think, the best of
everybody.
Maybe at that time of my life Ijust thought everybody was out
to help everybody and I mighthave dreamt that, I don't know,
but I remember that.
I remember seeing it on thenews, guys being like, yeah, I'm
wearing fluorescence so that hewould shoot me, not some random
.
No, you remember that they werelooking for an AstroVan and
there were some people in ourhigh school that had AstroVans

(55:02):
and that was always kind offunny to think about.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
Were they?
I don't remember.
I don't remember big specificslike that, like what they were
looking for, big specifics likethat.
I ended up being like what?
Like a blue sedan or somethinglike that.
You nailed it.

Speaker 2 (55:17):
You nailed it, Andrus .

Speaker 3 (55:19):
A.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Chevy Caprice Yep.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
You could be telling us.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Yeah, well, just one thing.
We'll let you go here in alittle bit, because we kind of
already went through all that,just wanted to find out that I
wasn't.
I just wanted to make sure thatJohn was so beyond.
It's just so unbelievable thathe doesn't remember it.
Would you rather get TedKaczynski or DC area sniped or I

(55:45):
guess it would be.
I guess maybe not necessarilythat, but would you rather be
near a Ted Kaczynski event orlive in the Beltway during the
Snipers?

Speaker 3 (55:58):
I think I'd rather be in the Beltway.
I think I'd rather take mychances with the sniper finding
me.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
I guess you could go.

Speaker 3 (56:11):
I mean, if you're in a big area of you know, like
millions of people or hundredsof thousands.
It's like what are my oddsversus like attention to things,
like I have no idea if I'veever met this person and like
cross them in some weird way.
I don't know.
That's a good question.
It's a weird, weird one, Idon't know.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
I don't know if I have a good answer hmm, I just
feel like your odds are going tobe a lot higher.
In a set radius assuming youknow he from what I'm looking on
this picture he shot 17different people just in the
vicinity of the dc area.
Ted kaczynski was a forest inMontana, wasn't he?

Speaker 2 (56:49):
But nobody knew where he was.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
Well, but to John's point, that's probably actually
right, because it's like, evenif you don't know where he is,
it's still a much bigger, it'sjust a bigger pool of people.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I mean you're talking like one metro area versus the
entire country, because I thinkTed Kaczynski was like both
coasts, I think.
I think he went nationwide withhis attacks and he was
specifically mailing to specificpeople.

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Maybe you couldn't go all third between them, but
they weren't just random personin the burbs of Pittsburgh
getting a letter from TedKaczynski who just works at nine
to five.
It was like senator wasn't it?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
oh, what about?
It was a lot of people withtechnology.
He hated technology.

Speaker 1 (57:38):
I do remember people mailing anthrax to one another,
like that was the same.
That was.
Oh yeah, wasn't that was.

Speaker 2 (57:43):
That was like 2002, right yeah, yeah, I remember
that stuff that was like rightafter the dc area sniper copycat
dude, talk about it, talk abouta crazy time.
Man 9-11 I'm sniper attacksanthrax shocked it hasn't

(58:04):
happened again.

Speaker 1 (58:04):
I didn't know this story actually happened.
I'm shocked it hasn't repeateditself.
The sniper attack yeah, like ifI didn't know it story actually
happened.
I'm shocked it hasn't repeateditself.
The sniper attack, yeah, likeif I didn't know it was a thing.
I'm really shocked in thepolitical climate we've been in
the past, however long, I'mshocked.
Well, I think cell phones yeah,he's put on an airplane mode I
don't think it works that way.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Not for, Not for the NSA dog.
Oh okay, you can kid yourselfall you want.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
Well, I only put it on to save my battery life
anyway.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
Was Kind of like a sidebar here.
Was Ted Kaczynski part of theMKUltra stuff.
Did they think that he wastested on?
Oh, at MIT Kind of similar.
Did they think that he was?

Speaker 2 (58:50):
tested on back in the day, oh, at MIT, kind of
similar, I feel like there wasone of those.
I don't know if it was that.
Mkultra was that when they weretesting LSD on people?

Speaker 3 (59:03):
Yeah, that thing.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
I think with him it was more like psychiatric tests,
I think Okay, it wasn'tdrug-induced, but they would
really mess with his mind instudies.
I think John's on ChatGPT Ithink right now he might have an

(59:25):
answer for us too.
I'm so sorry.
Ted Kaczynski went to Harvard,not MIT, and he participated in
a study led by Harvardpsychologist Henry Murray.
Subjects were told they woulddebate personal philosophy with
a fellow student and were askedto write essays detailing their
personal beliefs and aspirations.
The essays were given to ananonymous individual who would

(59:47):
confront and belittle thesubject in what Murray himself
called vehement, sweeping andpersonally abusive attacks,
using the content of the essaysas ammunition.
Kaczynski spent 200 hours aspart of the study, so yeah, he
got messed up by that too.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
Okay, okay.
So yeah, I thought there wassomething that like that he
signed up for something and somekind of weird.
So yeah, that's it.
I wasn't bad with the snipersthen.
No, the snipers was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
He was like he got, he was in the military and then
he kind of started.
He went like jihad on everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
I have a question for you too.
How much would you pay?
Would you listen to athree-hour sit-down podcast with
Elon Musk and Ted Kaczynski?
Like Mr Anti-Technology, but Ithink it'd be a very smart
conversation.

(01:00:49):
He's at Harvard educated.
He was writing books.
I'd be curious to hear theconversation.
Andrew S, what do you think?

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
I don't think I'd pay for that, but I've listened to
it for free.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Joe Rogan's moderating I think you're right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
I think you would start having flashbacks to his
study in Harvard and freak out,which would also be entertaining
.
Would he have more coherentthoughts and maybe be more
interesting to hear than CharlesManson?
Sure, I agree.
Would I want to listen to whathe has to say?
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (01:01:31):
I would join.
I want to listen to what he hasto say.
I don't think so.
Okay, I'm with John, though Ithink that would be a
fascinating conversation whereyou have two polar opposites.
I always think that'sinteresting.
You get those types of peopletogether.
One thinks one thing all theway to the left and one's all
the way to the right, and thenit's like where do you, where do
you cross over?

Speaker 2 (01:01:51):
and like that, that's where you get the interesting,
interesting stuff you could likereally start triggering him too
by saying like I was uh usingchat gpt, and he'd be like wait,
what's that?

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
no, he's like.
What's that?
I've been in prison for 30years.
What's that?
Chat?
What?
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:02:08):
no, it's the thing that just you know, you just put
in a prompt and it does all thethinking for you.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
And it's AI artificial intelligence, I mean
yeah, tells you what to think.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
And Elon don't open any packages for the next couple
weeks either, but it's reallycool.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I think I mean from a personal just from how you
describe these dc snipers andhow we're describing tech is if
someone's like you just had tohow to listen to why their
motivation, like what theirthought, what's going through
their head, I think I'd be moreinterested in knowing what went
through ted kaczynski's headthan the dc sniper and the 17
year old just from, like a whatI would think is I'll tell you
what I will pay for.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
What I would pay for is DC area snipers, Ted
Kaczynski, just have those twointerview each other.
I'd pay for that.
That would be something.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Way worse.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
Just lock him in a room and say go ahead, we're
recording who's moderating umtimothy mcveigh?
What?
Yeah, maybe ted bundy.
It would be weird to put likeall those crazy, like all like
dcr snipers ted kaczynski, tedBundy, timothy.

(01:03:31):
Mcveigh the one from Milwaukee,the one who ate people.
Oh Dahmer, Put them all in aroom and just record.
That would be freaking wild.
That would be wild man.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I just want who would come out of there Like a big
brother man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:48):
John Wayne Gacy in there too.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
Yeah, I just want to come out of there like a like a
big brother, like a show bigbrother, but like big brother
serial killers.
Now we're talking.
Jack the Ripper like old schoolmaybe that's how they should

(01:04:11):
have like executed them, likeget them all together, be like
listen, one of you guys isn'tgoing to be executed, but you
have to vote people off everyone of you that dies will be
pulled down immediately uponeverybody will see your little
wee-wee.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
You will get the Mussolini treatment.

Speaker 2 (01:04:37):
But one of you won't.
Oh dude, that's a TV show.

Speaker 3 (01:04:41):
That'd be weird.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
What's that Netflix show?
That's like that.
People were in debt.
There's like 99 people in squidgames A squid game.
Yeah, that's like a squid gamein debt.
There's like 99 people in asquid squid games, a squid game.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Yeah, that's like a game I'd actually be interested
in you would be.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
I mean, john would be like weirdly interested in it,
I think.
I think, I don't know, I thinkted kaczynski would be either.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
He'd either come out on top.
I think you know, john.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
You know what you know what it would be I think
Ted Kaczynski would really getJohn.
He would get his hooks intoJohn and John would just be like
you know, he's really not thatbad of a guy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Compared to these guys For sure.

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
He's actually pretty smart, for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:05:22):
I would definitely do a hard comparison, you know,
compared to this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
No, I think it would be like he kind of reminds me of
John Tyler a little bit.
I like him Alright, Andres, yougot anything else to leave the
fans with while you're on.
You got one chance.

Speaker 3 (01:05:41):
Nope, just take care of it, it's going to kill.

Speaker 1 (01:05:43):
John's life.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
It's spreading like wildfire.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
That's a good thing, John.
It's a good thing when peopleuse your tagline.
Well, I thank you.
Ted Kaczynski would have killedfor somebody to use his tagline
.

Speaker 3 (01:05:57):
What would his tagline have been?

Speaker 2 (01:06:01):
Do we ask ChatGPT?

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
That's a great question for ChatGPT.
The DC Snipers had a taglinethey left tarot cards for their
victims.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
Wait, really.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
For their victims.
They would drop them afterwardsand be like Like the.
Joker, I'm God.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Yeah, I did not know that was a thing either.
That's great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:26):
What would Ted Kaczynski's tagline be?

Speaker 3 (01:06:28):
Yeah, what's tagline?
Be yeah.
What's his calling card?

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Technology will destroy us all.
The industrial revolution was amistake.
That's a good one.
Now I could hear John sayingthat right now.
Well, you know, the industrialrevolution was actually a bad
thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
It could be a luddite .
No, actually I don't know.
I've driven through Amishcountry.
It doesn't look that great.
I don't think we could go backto it.
I don't think Ted Kaczynski canlive with the Amish for a week.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
I'll just leave you with seven more.
Keep calm and reject theinternet.
Real men don't need Wi-Fi.
Siri, I'm going to have tounsubscribe.
Delete your Facebook, thendelete your phone.
Log off, live free or don't.
Your smartwatch is watching you.

(01:07:23):
If you're not using atypewriter, are you even living?
Those aren't very good.
I do like the theory.
I'm going to have tounsubscribe.
That's a good one.
And real men don't need Wi-Fiis pretty much how John lives
his life.
So there you go.
All right, andrew, thanks forpicking up.

(01:07:46):
I'm glad we missed you on theHalloween episode, so I figured
I had to pick one person tocorroborate my story that
everybody remembers theWashington area sniper attacks.
I picked you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Well, I very much appreciate the call.
I'm happy I remembered it anddid not embarrass myself.
Big takeaway.

Speaker 2 (01:08:06):
Absolutely Well.
Thanks for listening.
As always, make sure you like,share and subscribe Andrew S and
anytime you want to send over atext message to us.

Speaker 3 (01:08:18):
It would be appreciated.
Will do.
All right, thanks, big dogThank you Keep up the good work,
boys.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
Always Bye.
There you go, John.
He has the worst memory ofanybody that I've ever met and
for him to remember it makes youthe word the person with the
worst memory that I've ever met.
So there you go.
Now I know.
Lesson learned.

Speaker 1 (01:08:37):
There's a lesson learned yeah, I just I think I
blacked out from, I guess, 9 11to like the 2004 election.
As far as like pop cultureevents go, I don't remember
anything between 2001 and 2004.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
It probably had something to do with you trying
to cut weight.
It must have messed with yourbrain stem.
I guess you lived a prettysheltered life, kind of.
That's what it sounds like tome.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Well, what did we cover?
To me, well, it's well.
What do we cover?
I mean, we covered, you know,probably one of the most
reputable and responsible umpresidents I would say we
probably ever had.
And then we talked about anindividual.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
He kind of won me, he kind of won me over a little
bit.
I just think I just, you know,just to sum it up, like I just
want everyone to think about howhistory repeats itself, for
good or for bad it does.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Yep, and we've.
We've put the kibosh and we'vemade it through election season.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
And well, no, I'm just saying, like the country
itself, we did it.

Speaker 1 (01:09:42):
Society itself continues, no matter where I
still cross my fingers thatwe'll do away with multi,
multiple terms for the president.
We'll have a single six-yearterm.
That's what I hope and pray forin the long run.
I don't know if we'll get thereand.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
But you know, everyone thought the economy was
in bad shape.
It shook itself out somehow.
One way or the other might havetaken world war ii, who knows?

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
who knows?

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
I think it's cool to think about how the similar I
just thought it was funsimilarities between the two.
Obviously you're gonna havesimilarities when you have
non-consecutive terms, but yeahwell and grover cleveland.

Speaker 1 (01:10:23):
Certainly he beat the establishment.
You know trump might be more ofthat, but yeah, they were both
kind of anti-establishment intheir way.
So yeah, it's interesting.
Non-consecutive terms.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
It would have been interesting, I wonder, what your
thoughts would have been ifCleveland ran for a fourth time,
if you would have not been asmuch of a fan of his, because it
sounds as though he was headingthat way until the Democrats
housed him.
I'll tell you who wouldn't havebeen a fan another person we've
spoken of on this podcast no, Ithink.

(01:10:57):
Well, who was the?
What was the name of the guywho shot?
Who shot roosevelt?
john shrank yeah, he would nothave been a fan of cleveland.
Now I wonder, if he was a fanof cleveland as a president,
would not have been a fan ofCleveland.
Now I wonder, if he was a fanof Cleveland as a president,
would he have been?
Yeah, I mean, he probablywasn't alive, right?

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
No.

Speaker 2 (01:11:14):
Or very young, wouldn't he?

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
He would have been.
He would have been a young man.

Speaker 2 (01:11:20):
Well, he was.
When was the assassination?
Well, 1913.
When was the assassination?
Maybe so 1913.
Yeah, he definitely hedefinitely been alive, yeah, but
he would have been young, hewould have been like 10.
But I think Cleveland, I meanit could be, I mean you don't
even you when you were.
You don't remember whathappened when you were.
You don't remember a nationalemergency from when you were 14,

(01:11:44):
so why would you expect JohnSchrank to remember the
president when he was 10?
In Germany?

Speaker 1 (01:11:52):
of all places too.
I don't know if he would havebeen, because I feel like no.
I do think Cleveland tried tobe, in my opinion, tried to be
more in line with what thefounders, you know, maybe
thought in some ways.
I think, politically speaking,like they might have both been
more on, like they wouldn't.
He would have liked thatCleveland was more

(01:12:12):
anti-imperialist in sentiment.

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
I think Cleveland always kind of gets dumped on
because of his like twonon-consecutive terms.

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
Well, that's just like a convenient way to kind of
remember him but then justshrug him off.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, GroverCleveland, yeah, big guy but not
as big as Taff, and he won twoconsecutive terms.
Yeah, we know that guy.
I mean that's him, that's hisMO, he was the most.

Speaker 3 (01:12:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:12:37):
Yeah, he was.
He was one of the best, in myopinion, up there with John
Tyler, thomas Jefferson.
He was the best.

Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
All right, john, alright, john.
Well, that's it.
That's all that we have for youguys today.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
We will see you on the next one yeah, guys, thank
you so much for tuning in andstay curious got anything to
leave them with?
Stay extra curious.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
I got hairy legs.