When typical bachelor party debauchery gets replaced with historical site tours, you know you're dealing with history nerds of the highest order. What began as an attempt to check off the "Historic Triangle of Virginia" quickly spiraled into a comedy of errors featuring annoyed tour guides, historical mansplaining gone wrong, and the touching of things that should not be touched.
Our journey begins at the White House of the Confederacy in Richmond, where a young, knowledgeable tour guide expertly schools our overconfident host who tries to show off his Civil War expertise. The painful silence following his fumbled explanation of the Peninsula Campaign might be the most educational moment of the entire tour. Despite expectations of controversy, the site offers a surprisingly thoughtful perspective on this complex chapter of American history.
The real highlight comes at Sherwood Forest, home of President John Tyler and the only presidential residence continuously inhabited by descendants of a former president. Here we meet Tim, a ponytailed guide with questionable fashion sense who delivers a marathon three-hour tour filled with football field analogies and protective rage when antique candlesticks are touched by unauthorized fingers. "Yeah, but I know which one to touch" might be the perfect retort to sum up the entire experience.
Between Jefferson Davis's restored citizenship (which he might not have wanted), John Tyler's fifteen children, and the current resident who is "63 going on 18," this episode captures the strange, fascinating characters who inhabit our national story—both historical figures and the dedicated, if sometimes eccentric, individuals who preserve their legacies.
If you've ever felt that rush of embarrassment when someone in your group asks a stupid question at a museum, or fantasized about touching the artifacts behind the velvet rope, this episode validates all your historical tourist urges and anxieties. Listen now to experience the Historic Triangle of Virginia through the eyes of two podcasters who can't help but think they could do everything better—even while proving the exact opposite.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt (00:17):
getting back used to using these buttons, I kind of forgot
which one, what they all do ohboy, what they all do, oh boy.
We got some splaining to do.
Jon (00:33):
Wow, check these mics even work anymore fans, do they even
work?
Wow, wow, wow.
We promised some big.
Where do we leave it off withthe mat?
Matt (00:50):
big promises, big letdown big hundred divers a little bit
too much.
Nintendo switch a little bit ofthat, a little bit of this, a
little bit of that, a little bitmostly nintendo switch.
Jon (01:01):
I think well, if I recall correctly, it was yourself that
encouraged me to get the nowseven-year-old Nintendo Switch
sports game.
I was just discovering it and.
I was hooked Hook line andsinker as they say.
Matt (01:19):
Point the finger, we'll call you John Finger Pointer,
john the Finger Pointer.
Jon (01:25):
No man.
Matt (01:26):
I'm trying to think of, like an Italian, you know
mafiosa name that could makethat work Johnny Fingerpoints.
Jon (01:40):
Johnny Fingerpoints.
Over here, Guy blames everybodyelse for the Switch problems.
Don't want to focus on hishistory podcast.
Well, I thought we were lookingfor some stuff and then I got
word from my co-host that hepulled the plug on our
(02:00):
podcasting.
Matt (02:01):
You weren't working on anything.
You weren't working onanythinging.
You weren't working on anythingdon't play, don't play.
Don't play this like oh, I wasjust, I was really working hard
then all of a sudden, matt justpulled the plug on me.
That last episode really tookthe wind out of my sales and I
(02:21):
think it took the wind out of alot of our listeners.
Sales downloads are down whatwas that?
Jon (02:29):
it's post, christmas post post holiday period you know,
people are.
It's cold, it's winter, peopleare just over the winter months.
Now it's it's may, sun's out,birds and bees are humming.
I just I'm excited to be backbehind the microphone.
I don't know about you.
Matt (02:53):
Well.
I tried to pull the plug tofinish John's story.
I tried to pull the plugcompletely on it.
I was going to unsubscribe toall of my podcast subscriptions
in the sense of Descript andBuzzsprout are the people who
host our nice podcast and itturns out that I was about three
(03:15):
days short to cancel myDescript yearly membership that
I accidentally signed up for.
It's been over a year now andsince I was too late, it signed
me up for a whole another yearso I couldn't cancel it, um, and
it kind of forced me to.
Um, well, I mean, it didn'tforce me to get back on.
(03:36):
I was trying to think ofdifferent directions to go but,
you know, ultimately just cameback to like, I guess we'll just
try to resurrect this thing.
Jon (03:47):
And I guess when it had renewed is that when you told me
you'd canceled it or you werecanceling it, you already knew
it got renewed.
Matt (03:59):
I tried to cancel it.
Then I renewed it.
Then I'm like I'll tell Johnthat I canceled it, see how much
he cares and let me see if I Iwish I could get this text
message up.
Let me see if I can find thishere.
So the text message that I sentwas by the way, I've been
meaning to tell you I'vecanceled the script going to
sunset the pod, and yourresponse was I figured that and
(04:27):
that was the only thing that hesaid.
So it doesn't sound like youwere putting a lot of effort in
that.
You were real bummed out aboutit.
Jon (04:38):
I told my fiance, I told Lauren G about it and she was
bummed for me.
Matt (04:46):
So there's that.
Why didn't you talk yourfeelings to me?
Why do you have to be soguarded If we're going to
co-host this thing?
Jon (04:57):
new secrets, no secrets.
New secrets or no secrets, nosecrets.
We can make new secrets if youwant, although we can't tell all
of our new secrets that we gotfrom last weekend, which it was
wild for one fans just a littlebit.
Matt (05:18):
A couple updates from the last episode that we did, if you
remember, um I had yeah, alittle bit of housekeeping.
I had, um, I had made a bigannouncement on that last
podcast about my diagnosis ofdandruff and I just want, I just
want to give everyone an updateand um, it's gone, it worked I
(05:43):
think it worked.
Jon (05:44):
The 50 shampoo worked, yep 15.
Matt (05:49):
So, fans, if you ever, if you ever have a problem with um
dandruff, you know, head over tosuper cuts and, uh, buy the
most expensive shampoo they haveand it'll go away in a couple
days now.
Jon (06:03):
I've also heard that dandruff is also a seasonal
issue at times.
Could it be that your scalp isjust a little more nutrient?
It's dry weather in winter.
I think this dandruff is morepresent in winter months.
I'm not saying you just didn'tstraight up have it and you
didn't need this tea tree oilshampoo, but I've heard that it
(06:26):
comes in waves in the winter.
Okay, but I I don't not to beoutdone.
I think I myself was dealingwith a little dandruff issue and
I'm currently medicating withtea tree oil.
I haven't seen any immediateresult, but I think it's getting
better.
Stay tuned in a month when weget back to another episode and
(06:50):
we'll tell you.
Matt (06:51):
Yeah, let us know you got to.
Let us know.
Yeah, what else?
So we do have very, very old.
I guess you call it cleaningout the drunk drawers.
That's what they call it in thebusiness of old business.
Two episodes ago, I think, tostart off the OJ episode, we
(07:17):
were talking about John gettinga suit, going suit shopping and
everything, and we got a littlebit of a feedback about that
conversation from our friend ofthe show, dick Pepperfield.
It says hey, boys Thought I'dhelp John out with his underwear
(07:39):
problem.
I'm a big fan of MeUndies.
They are soft, breathable andget the job done.
If you're looking for moreseparation for your twig and
berries, you can check outSheath.
I haven't tried them, butpeople say they keep your meat
cool.
They also do podcastsponsorship, so maybe you can
get two birds stoned at once andget some free samples.
(08:01):
Now, I could be wrong, but Ithink John was alluding to
feeling sexy on his wedding day.
You could look into an Italianstyle over at Manier Manier.
Manier 100% Italian hard bodies, and they even offer jock
straps for max breathability.
Forza Italia Solid episode asusual.
(08:21):
Long live Kato.
Stay classy Dick Pepperfield.
An episode as usual.
Long live kato.
Stay classy dick pepperfield.
So this episode has is beingbrought to you by me, undies
sheath, and manier.
Jon (08:33):
Free shipping of above 100 euros for underwear 100 euros
dick pepperfield was not joking.
The camera is literally.
All these dudes wearing this isfor manny air.
This is manny air.
Matt (08:47):
I'm on their website right now I, I don't want to sell uh
dick pepperfield up the river,down the river, whatever,
however that phrase goes tofollow the uh um the theme of
this podcast.
Jon (09:01):
But, um, I think that it is a german company, not italian
it says made in italy, and theyare oh is very scandously
dressed, I must say yeah thereare some hot bods on that
website I looked it up thesewaistbands.
They got the tri-colors ofitaly on the waistbands I mean
(09:22):
mean this?
I don't know, I'm under attack.
Matt (09:26):
Is it Italian?
Jon (09:27):
It says Made in Italy on their website.
Matt (09:29):
Oh, maybe I was looking at something else.
How expensive.
Jon (09:33):
Manier Devoir, handmade in Italy.
That would be an interestinglook.
This guy is currently doingsquats Reverse shoulder, looking
over his shoulder.
I scroll down and it's just hischeeks, it's just.
I guess he's wearing ajockstrap I don't know his butt
cheeks are just hanging out wait, where is this?
Matt (09:53):
what website are you on?
Jon (09:55):
I don't think you're on the right, I don't know, oh wait,
pepperfield found this one, buthow?
Matt (10:05):
did you, Manier Dubois?
Is that where you're at?
Oh yeah, Dick Pepperfield, youmight want to check your
internet history just in caseyou know.
Dark room on Veryscandalousalous very risque
(10:29):
option he's not in a squatposition, john.
You may seem like he was likein the down squat.
Wow, man, you should get a pairof these.
Maybe I'll buy them for you,isn't that is?
That is that part of the bestman's um job responsibility?
Jon (10:52):
to get to get the men's lingerie for uh banana hammocks
they're called in certain partsof the world I think isn't there
smugglers and others?
Matt (11:03):
isn't there some kind of um tradition, not tradition, I
guess I wouldn't say, but thatwomen, that women like, will get
like, uh, lingerie, like alingerie photo shoot for their
husband before their wedding?
(11:24):
not a tradition I've come across, nor one I think will be
continuing, unfortunately bridalboudoir photography is a
pre-wedding photo shoot focusingon sensual, intimate and often
erotic imagery, often done as agift for the groom.
The shoots typically take placea few weeks or months before
the wedding and involve aphotographer capturing the bride
(11:46):
in a variety of lingerie orother suggestive outfits.
The goal is to celebrate thebride's body sexuality and to
create a memorable intimate giftfor the groom.
So we could do the opposite ofthat and we'll have you do these
poses in your Manier Devoirdarkroom collection, and maybe
(12:09):
that will be my gift to Lauren Gfor the wedding.
Jon (12:15):
It might have to pay for.
Maybe we can get somesponsorship, maybe we'll do a
two-for-one or, like DickPepperfield was saying, I'll
model them.
It could be a gift for Lauren G, but also.
Matt (12:26):
They could use it for the website.
Jon (12:27):
They can use it for the website Brought to you by
Nailing History, or NailingHistory brought to you by
Nailing History.
Matt (12:32):
You would have to be like Maybe it would be like you'd be
dressed up like Lafayette or no,he was French.
Or I could just use my FaceSwapapp and use these photos from
here and put you on all of theseand put them in a calendar and
give them to Lauren G for yourwedding.
Jon (12:50):
Now you're using the thing between no, but that's yeah you
would, but no, she's got it.
Matt (12:55):
It's got to be, it's got to celebrate your body, sex and
sexuality.
So it will do all those things.
Jon (13:05):
So maybe we'll do all those things.
Matt (13:08):
So maybe we'll set that up .
We should have done thatprobably last weekend, but I'll
set that up.
Jon (13:14):
Well, speaking of last, weekend.
Matt (13:17):
That is a tradition.
I don't know if, I don't knowhow often it's done, but I've
heard that from some people.
Like I've heard that from somepeople.
I've heard of women that I'vetalked to that had mentioned
they were going through thepictures with the bride to pick
the best ones for the gift.
Jon (13:38):
And then what do they do with it?
I guess that's my question.
So in 20 years time, if you'recaught red-handed looking at an
older picture of your wife andyour current?
Matt (13:47):
wife walks in, is she going to get all upset?
Jon (13:49):
She's like oh, you don't like me the way I am now.
How would you?
Matt (13:53):
feel if, 20 years down the road, lauren G was looking at
the old pictures of you in thedark room collection of Manier
Devoir?
How would that make you feel?
I guess would be the question.
Jon (14:11):
I think I would try to find ways to say I still look like
that.
I think I would delude myself.
I'd be like, yeah, I look justas good Currently.
Oh, 20 years.
I think I would be like yeah, Iwas a smoke show back then, but
I still think I'm pretty goodnow or maybe it's something to
show your kids when they getolder.
Matt (14:30):
I'm gonna aspire to.
I don't know you could do.
It could be like you could lookback and just be like, wow man,
those, those 10 push-ups a dayreally did a lot for me back
then.
Maybe.
Jon (14:43):
I should get back into it.
Matt (14:44):
So I guess time to get into it here.
John is getting married.
At basically the end of thismonth, first week of June,
john's getting married and wehad a I guess you could call it
a bachelor party.
Well, it was a bachelor bash 'strue.
(15:10):
That's true.
Um and uh, you know, we kind ofdid it um this podcast.
It was very, it was a verypersonalized experience, um,
because it wasn't thetraditional uh format of most
bat what you would think atypical bachelor party would be,
(15:31):
which would be, I guess, likethe hangover, like the hangover
shenanigans, lewd behavior.
Jon (15:42):
Yeah, I might say fun.
Maybe some people that are withus might say having fun kind of
a pre-requisite fun might havefor some people.
Matt (15:51):
Fun may have been a uh, a hole in the weekend, might have
been a a lack of fun for forsome of the people involved, but
we didn't care, but we did it.
So, hey, we obviously want toshare the aspects of the weekend
(16:13):
that we think our listenerswould be maybe interested in, or
at least follow the theme ofthis podcast.
Jon (16:24):
I think it's fair to say we had to resurrect the podcast,
at minimum for covering what wedid last weekend for this
Bachelor Bash.
There was too much history, wewould be remiss.
Too much history.
Matt (16:37):
We would be remiss to leave you guys out of the
conversation.
And, that being said, somethingthat I realized as it was too
late, we were on our way downthere.
And, I being said, somethingthat I realized as it was too
late, we were on our way downthere and I mentioned to john
that, um, we owed um dickpepperfield, our fan, um the
experience of coming along withus at a 50 discount.
(16:59):
I think that was.
That was the prize he won for.
I forget what, being the firstfan mail.
Jon (17:09):
He could have cashed in on that big time last weekend.
Oh wow, oh yeah.
Matt (17:14):
Yeah, it would have been, he would have gotten his money's
worth.
Jon (17:17):
Let's just say that.
Matt (17:18):
Well, I don't know if he would have gotten his money's
worth, but it would have beenmore of a grand prize, more than
just a prize.
I don't, I'm I'm lost there.
But apologize, dick Pepperfield, but I think you might've been
better off.
So, um, with no further ado, Iwant to say I want to open up
this, up with John and I did thehistoric triangle of Virginia,
(17:43):
so that you guys don't have toyes, I think, is the best way to
say that right.
Jon (17:49):
Yep Historical triangle of Virginia plus.
Matt (17:53):
Yeah, we did it.
All the kids are using thisdays.
Jon (17:55):
Yeah, Hulu plus all the streaming services plus.
So we tacked on a few bonusfeatures.
Matt (18:02):
Yeah, we made it.
We gave it the nailing historytwist.
It's like a two-hour episodeversion of the Historic Triangle
and we're probably going togive you a three-hour episode
summary of the Historic Triangleof Virginia Plus.
Jon (18:22):
I can guarantee you're still going to get your money's
worth from this episode than youwould from one of the money's
worth from this episode, thanyou would from one of the places
we went on this podcast.
I don't want to steal my ownthunder yeah, let's, let's keep
it in order here.
Matt (18:33):
So just a quick summary of the historic triangle um, it's
uh down in the um, I guess, thepeninsula area, the tidew
Virginia.
Jon (18:46):
I guess is what you would call it Tidewater Virginia.
Matt (18:50):
There's three main attractions there.
I guess you would call itthat's how they treat it, at
least.
You have Jamestown, which isthe first permanent settlement
in America by Europeans, by theEnglish, sure by the English.
Then you got ColonialWilliamsburg, which is John D
(19:15):
Rockefeller Jr's little petproject, as we came to learn.
Jon (19:22):
And the former capital of the Virginiaia colony before his
pet project.
Matt (19:26):
But yes, and then the uh yorktown national battlefield,
which is the site of the, notonly the final scene, the final
battle of the america, the finalmajor battle of the American
Revolution, but also the site ofthe final scene of the film
(19:48):
Revolution starring Al Pacino,which we've reviewed on this
podcast.
Going to Yorktown was reallyconsidered to be a pilgrimage of
the podcast because of thesignificance it had to that
great film.
Jon (20:04):
And just, I think, closing out, we did so many other site
tours of other revolutionary warplaces like saratoga, and we
obviously have been to valleyforge and I think, yeah, we had
a.
Matt (20:16):
Really we had to put a bow on it yeah, kind of putting a
bow on that whole, that wholearea.
I know, in the beginning ofthis podcast I was told that we
were stuck in the 18th centuryfor too long by Brian K Shout
out to him, so if he's listening, I don't know he's still
listening.
We may have lost him a littlebit there, but he's still alive.
We didn't lose him like that,Just lost him as a listener and
(20:40):
so yeah, so it was kind of likeputting a real.
So yeah, so it was kind of likeputting a real Felt like it
really put a bow on the 18thcentury revolutionary period of
America.
Jon (20:51):
For me, and just to say we'll tell our fans, we'll just
get this out of the way, If anyof our fans do go to Yorktown
any of our fans that have alsoseen Revolution just know it's
different.
That's all I'll say.
Matt (21:07):
Yeah, we'll get to it.
So we actually the plus aspectof the historic triangle we took
care of in the first day, so wecan take care of that and then
we can just get right into the.
We added a little bit at theend, but that was small.
So the first thing we did wassomething that John tacked on to
the itinerary pretty late inthe process of preparing the
(21:31):
bachelor party.
I was the best man, so I was incharge of planning it.
I did an okay job.
I did a John.
I figured John deserved to getthe same effort put into his
bachelor party that he puts intothe podcast.
So that's basically what I did.
It's only fair.
Jon (21:52):
So I think our listeners can see the level of preparation
that went into that but anyway,john started an email chain and
that was big, yes, and that'swhere business gets done, as we
all know.
Matt (22:05):
So and um.
So, john, if you want to getstarted on why you wanted to go
to this place, what made youinterested in it, and you know
we'll just do a quick recap ofthis one yeah.
Jon (22:16):
So, as matt alluded to, we added this stop on pretty soon,
pretty uh late in this in thegame, uh, I think like maybe a
lot even a week before uh.
But reason why, uh, we decidedto add this on is because
there's going to be a low time.
We were four of us down therefor the whole weekend, but three
(22:39):
of us were driving and wecouldn't check into our Airbnb
until 4 pm on a Friday.
Matt (22:46):
We would have just had too much time on our hands.
I don't think the fans need toknow all this stuff.
So we were driving.
To get to get to what?
Jon (22:55):
to get to the historic triangle of virginia, you end up
basically having to drivethrough richmond virginia, which
is the current capital ofvirginia it's the current
capital, virginia, and it wasthe capital of the confederate
states of america during thecivil war and to this they still
have what is known as the WhiteHouse of the Confederacy.
(23:19):
It's still standing.
It is on the campus of VirginiaCommonwealth University and
they give tours and I I told mysister, I told Emily M about
that.
Matt (23:34):
We went here and she was shocked that it still existed.
Really, yeah, which I could see.
That.
I wasn't shocked, but she wascurious who kept it open?
And I think you know I might bejumping ahead here, but it's
not run by the federalgovernment, correct?
I think it's privately owned bythe Museum of the Civil War
(23:55):
which is down there.
Right, and I think, well, itwas getting decrepit, which
seems to be better, which seemsto be a well better run
establishment than the Museum ofthe American Revolution in
Philadelphia.
But I digress.
Jon (24:08):
Mm-hmm, I think it was after the war.
Well, it was in private handsbefore the war.
It well, it was in privatehands before the war.
And then it was like leased tothe confederacy and so it wasn't
destroyed.
So, um, they said it was thewhite house of the confederacy.
So it was jefferson davis'shome uh, he's the president of
the confederate states duringthe civil war.
It's his family's home duringthose four years.
(24:29):
And he left, I think they saidapril 2nd.
He was basically given word hey, you got to run, you got to
ditch this place because theUnion troops are at the door.
And they said two days later,lincoln was standing in the
living room.
So the Union forces took overthe city of Richmond in April of
1865.
By that point, basically, thewar was effectively over, so
(24:52):
they didn't have to burn thething down.
Matt (24:55):
I think they used it as a headquarters for reconstruction.
Jon (24:58):
I think is what she said the use of a reconstruction and
then eventually it kind of Ithink eventually fell into
disrepute.
But then the confederatedaughters of america got hold of
it and pumped some money intoit and I was really surprised at
how well put together it was.
But my interest in going herestems from having read the civil
war books by the author shelbyfoot, who shout out to shane
(25:20):
gillis was name dropping on snla couple months back for any of
our fans who caught in a jokingmatter, I believe, but no well
as they say no such thing as, nosuch thing as bad publicity, as
they say.
Matt (25:32):
How did he put it?
What was the context of how hetalked about it?
Jon (25:36):
he was just acting like how shelby foot was in the civil
war documentary by ken burns andhe was just.
I don't know why he was talkingabout him, but I thought it was
pretty sweet I mean you can'tbe talking negatively as
somebody who nobody knows about.
Even if you're gonna just downlike talk poorly about somebody
(25:57):
that no one knows about, I don'tthink that lands.
I think he has to have somelevel of respect.
Matt (26:01):
But anyway, so, needless to say, we were coming down here
.
John is really excited aboutthis.
I'm saying I can't believe weactually signed up for this tour
.
We're going to be put on a listsomewhere.
I was expecting protesters atthe entrance.
John's real excited.
They tell us to get there 15minutes early and we're running
(26:24):
right on time.
But man, we get down toRichmond In classic John fashion
.
It's me and John, and then oneof the attendees of the bachelor
party, mr r.
We'll call him mr r.
He was in another car because,long story short, so it's me and
john, john being the worstnavigator navigate, navigator of
(26:48):
all time we get into richmondnew city never driven there
before.
I don't really know where I'mgoing.
We're using.
Waze.
I did no preparation for thisspecifically.
This was John's job and I wasgetting very similar Harper's
Ferry vibe Looking for parking.
Couldn't find it.
John, I'm driving through a newcity.
You'd think both people wouldbe interested in getting to the
(27:11):
right place.
John's on his phone like oh, wegot to go here, be interested
in getting to the right place.
John's on his phone like oh, wegot to go here, we, we got to
look it up.
Stuff about the, the museum,making weird comments about the
civil war, and uh, I missed theparking lot and we ended up
having to park in a parkinggarage, which was okay, but it
was just a classic.
John's very excited.
He's very worried about beingone minute late to being 15
(27:32):
minutes early.
Jon (27:36):
I'd be punctual.
I guess it's my British side.
I guess I got a little Britishin me, like being punctual to
things.
So we got there.
It was a ghost town, Richmond.
Don't know what people do therefor a living, but maybe they
must just run tours of the whitehouse of the confederacy.
Matt (27:55):
So we park well, your response was it is a friday,
which I said.
Jon (27:59):
Friday is still a work day, but whatever so yeah, so we get
we, we, we park, we get to thewhite house.
We have to go into like a youknow a visitor center thing
where there's a check-in andit's like one of your typical
like gift, like civil war giftshops.
They got stuff you know, bookson the union, pictures of link,
(28:20):
statues of lincoln, statues ofrobert e lee, can buy hats, can
buy this or that.
And what were we?
we were the youngest in thisgroup, there's probably about by
about 40 years by about 40years, I think there was what 10
of us total in the group and,uh, we had this young person um
by the name of.
Can we put on blast here?
(28:42):
Can we use her name?
Matt (28:45):
I don't know if we know her name.
Mr r thinks he knows her name,but I don't know.
Jon (28:49):
If that was her name, well, we'll call her nadia, for the
sake of the sake of moving italong here, and um, yeah, so she
was probably like 26, whichalone already I was just like I
can't believe.
Matt (29:05):
This is your job kind of like she just rolled out of bed.
I hope she doesn't listen tothe podcast, but that was my
first thought.
It's like she just woke up.
Jon (29:14):
She was no, she was all business.
Let's just put it that way shewas 100% business, all business
for not wanting to be doingbusiness, if that makes sense.
She was all business for nobusiness.
Matt (29:28):
So, like I said, this is part of the Civil War Museum and
I get the feeling that you getassigned to do this tour like on
, like similar to the the todo's kashusko museum.
Like you know, you got you, yougot the confederate white house
tomorrow and she's like, oh,she couldn't just sleep on it.
Jon (29:49):
She, you know, had a race through her alarm clock.
Got up out of of bed, met us at10 am sharp, yeah, and John is
just giddy.
Matt (30:01):
He's so excited.
Jon (30:02):
He's got.
Matt (30:03):
Shelby foot on the mind.
That's all he's thinking about.
Shane Gillis shouted him out.
John's giddy.
Jon (30:08):
Butterflies.
I was really looking forward toit.
I'm happy it was so kind ofimpromptu.
But Nadiaia, she was just shewas no, she meant all business.
And so you know, we weregetting a real quick.
We're sitting in this roomwhich is, you know, looking out
the glass, and you're facing theback of the of the house, and
so she's kind of giving aone-two like kind of the the
(30:30):
once over of what the house was,and she was just, yeah, kind of
telling it straight up and downthe line.
And so we walk into the foyerand you know it wasn't some like
confederate kind of likesympathizer group.
It was just part of the civilwar.
Who, but you, pointed out atree in the yard that was a gift
from the marquis de lafayettewhen he visited and made his
(30:55):
country tour in 1824.
And that was still there, stillgrowing.
And then, yeah, we eventuallymade our way into the house and
it was all me being ridiculousfrom there.
Matt (31:12):
I was so excited, john was so excited.
We get into the room and she'sjust, uh, the the beginning,
just talking about frederickdouglas and his um, you know his
backstory or whatever, and youknow right away, you know a
woman says um, I think she, Ithink the tour guide had
(31:35):
mentioned that he was frommissouri.
I believe um mississippimississippi, sorry, I guess.
Um and uh, a woman in theaudience says, um, oh, was he
born in mississippi?
And the tour guide said, well,no, but no, but he, he, he grew
up there.
So he, um, he always consideredhimself a Mississippian, I
(31:59):
guess.
And that's when John just budsin out of nowhere and says he
was actually from Kentucky.
Oh, he was from Kentucky.
Just, you know, no one asked,no one asked, everyone was
whatever.
And then you could really tell.
The tour guide was just likewell, we got another one.
Jon (32:16):
No, that's tbd and that's where mr r and you are not on
the same page.
And either she gave me a,either a death stare or a.
I found, I found man of mydreams.
I mean, I could, we?
And we still don't know.
I know, I know I'm probablymore agreeing with you, but the
fact that Mr R at least thinksthat well, mr R doesn't good
(32:40):
friend someone looking at Idon't know.
Matt (32:43):
I just feel like you have to be honest with your friends.
And she was definitely like, ohmy god, we got another one.
Because her response was like,oh yeah, he was.
Jon (32:51):
Yes, he was from kentucky, very good and then, from then on
, I tried yeah, very good, no,you were not biting your tongue.
Matt (33:01):
So then I go, I like elbow pictures.
I elbowed john and I said, uh,will you calm down?
He's like I'm excited, I'mexcited.
So I'm like, oh, brother, sothen go into another room and
she's talking a little bit more.
And then she starts talkingabout the Peninsula campaign.
(33:22):
Now John's already opened hisbig mouth and acting like he
knows more than the tour guidewanting to over talk her.
So she's talking about thePeninsula campaign.
She says, oh, yes, this was theroom where they had met.
We were in a room that they hadbattle papers out like maps and
stuff.
And she's like, oh, this is aroom and this is a similar
situation to where he would meetwith the Secretary of War and
his generals or whatever, anddiscuss the war.
(33:43):
And this is where they discussthe Peninsula Campaign.
And she says is anyone familiarwith the Peninsula Campaign?
And of course she looks at John, because he already made a
smart remark.
And John says, oh, yes, I knowa lot.
Oh, yes, I know, I read thebook about.
I read Shelby Foote's book.
I know a lot about thePeninsula campaign.
(34:04):
She said, oh, okay, go ahead,why don't you tell us what it is
.
And John froze.
His response was exact.
This is word for word what Johnfroze.
His response was exact.
This is word for word what Johnsaid.
Oh yeah, the Peninsula campaign.
It was where there was apeninsula and there was a
(34:25):
campaign in the Civil War andthe Confederates really wanted
to win it and ultimately, youknow, there was a campaign and
it was on the peninsula.
Jon (34:40):
In 1862.
Matt (34:42):
She said very good, and then went on to explain it way
better than everybody, than Johndid, like completely, john said
nothing and she responded and Ijust said man, she just bodied
you, dude, it was a hard box outand that was it.
(35:02):
And that, I think, was the lasttime john said anything and
that was the last time youinterrupted and tried to act
smarter than her.
I think that's where yourealize like, okay, this girl
knows what's going on.
I don't know more than her, I'mgonna.
Jon (35:16):
I'm gonna just listen to her well, I did ask her if about
jefferson's davis time assecretary of war under franklin
pierce got her kind of stumblingthere.
She didn't really have much ofan answer, but that's okay.
Um, for some of our fans,jefferson davis while some of
you may consider him a traitor,it's your prerogative he was
secretary of war, uh, underfranklin pierce.
(35:39):
And I was curious to knowbecause I'd read in a different
book not the one by shelby footthat he was responsible.
Before the civil war there was alot of western indian control
and a lot of trying to kind ofkeep, you know, the western
tribes in check, like thecomanche and you know, try to
kind of keep them under wraps.
And he who has a Secretary ofWar, was responsible for kind of
(36:00):
reinvigorating the Army andputting in these new processes
and all this and that and betterequipment and this and that.
And I asked her I said do youknow much about the idea of
Jefferson Davis kind ofoutfitting the Army that would
eventually destroy him?
And she said I don't know toomuch about that and I said okay,
and then well, I think thepoint that I'm making is you
(36:21):
knew the answer.
Matt (36:22):
You read it in a book.
So you were just you classicmove trying to.
You were trying to teach hersomething by putting it as a
question.
You didn't't care about theanswer.
What was she going to say?
Jon (36:36):
I was trying to influence other people in the room to
think well, maybe he wasn't thatbad of a guy.
Matt (36:40):
You were trying to do her job for her.
Jon (36:42):
They were already in the house, so maybe they already
were like well, at least, oh,this looks nice Jefferson.
Davis oh yeah, traitor,confederate guy.
But I was trying to say to geta conversation between her and I
so that for your benefit, mrr's benefit and everyone else in
the tour could be like oh, thisguy doesn't sound as you were
(37:02):
trying to do her job for her.
Matt (37:03):
That's what tour guys don't want you to do so long
story short.
So then we went through acouple other things.
It was cool somebody busted thebanister of, like the grand
staircase in this house likebefore us, which so we had to go
up the servants they call themthe servant staircases.
We went up there and so,luckily, you know, my thought
(37:25):
was wow, thank God somebodybroke that before us, because if
it was about to break, it wouldhave been one of us and we
would have been in real troublereal but anyway.
So we go, we go through thishouse.
It's just like you know.
There wasn't much to.
It was a nice house.
There's a very succinct,well-organized tour.
When john finally stoppedtrying to steer it in his own
direction, when he let the tourguide actually do the tour
(37:48):
herself the way that she wantedto do it and at the very end he
didn't he pulled it again onelast time.
He said hey, do you knowanything about the bread riots
1863?
She was like no, I don't.
I, you know, I know theyhappened.
Jon (38:05):
I asked him.
No, I asked him where, wheredid he stand out?
It was like a balcony that hestood from during the bread
riots.
Because in the books, basicallythe women of richmond and
across other states in the southduring 1863 were beginning to
riot for because of food prices,inflation and fighting a war,
so bread was too expensive andthey began stealing and this and
(38:27):
that.
And, yeah, they showed up tothe white house demanding, you
know, bread and he basicallycame out of a window and emptied
his pockets and said, here,take, take all that I have, and
he just kind of threw change tothem.
Matt (38:40):
Uh, it's like the miss the lady in happy gilmore here.
Take this and get out of here,leave me alone.
He's like what do you want fromme?
I'm just, I'm running.
I'm in the war too.
I'm leading it.
Jon (38:52):
I don't got time for this yeah, the problem was, but I
just remember reading the bookthat stuck with me, that part of
the book stuck with me, so Iwas curious about it and she
didn't know anything about it.
Matt (39:00):
It's fine.
My takeaway from it and thiskind of leads to it is, I feel
like the Confederates, really,the house was nice, it was a
nice house.
Big two thoughts were they wenttoo nice, too quick.
(39:23):
You know they were still tryingconsidering themselves a you
know burgeoning company orcountry.
You know when, what country?
Right, yeah, when, um, when theunited states went into war
with england, they didn't builda white house.
Right, while george washingtonwas living in a tent.
They didn't even have apresident at the time.
Um, so I feel like they went alittle too quick with their
money on that one and it didn'thave a good optics for maybe the
(39:44):
women.
So I kind of get where theywere coming from, um, and also I
think maybe they should havedone had a different color.
You know why have a white house?
You know, oh, this, this iswhat we're trying to get away
from.
Why are we doing the same thingthat they're doing anyway?
Yeah, I think historically.
Jon (40:01):
I definitely think I agree with that 100.
I think when people look backat the confederacy that they see
, oh, there was 11 states thatmade a another federal structure
.
I think it's easier for peopleto say, oh yeah, well, they were
just.
They were just traders, theywanted to compete with the
United States.
I agree with you.
I think they should have cameout a little more humble maybe
in just what they were kind ofgoing for and this is an aside
(40:23):
from the tour.
But I still say that if thestate seceded and remained
independent and didn't formanother federal structure with a
federal constant, with a, witha federal constitution and, you
know, represent like a congressand all that, if they just
stayed as individual states, Ithink maybe history might give
them a little more validity.
Matt (40:45):
But you're right, I think because they came out with the
white house, they got all thebells and whistles, all that
stuff yeah, so let's, let'schange the subject, but in
summary of this whole trip, johnended up feeling obligated to
actually apologize to the tourguide for being chooch Big time.
(41:06):
That's pretty much how it went.
Jon (41:09):
And for some reason I don't know why she made a point of
saying she really wanted tohammer home.
Maybe she was related toJefferson Davis.
Thinking about thinking aboutthis right now actually she
probably would have said thatwell, she was all business, as
we know.
All business, no business, Ithink.
So she made a point in the lastroom of the house at the end of
(41:31):
the tour.
Um, well, actually earlier inthe tour she'd said that jimmy
carter posthumously awarded himus citizenship.
So when he died he was well.
He was captured, uh, he wastried for treason, but they
didn't actually, um, uh, convicthim.
(41:52):
And she made the point ofsaying part of the reason he
wasn't convicted, along withother, you know, higher-ups like
robert e lee and other.
These individuals they say thatbecause if they were basically
convict them of treason, itwould basically be, uh,
indicative of of them sayingthat secession was legal anyway.
So he didn't get, so he diedwithout citizenship, us
(42:12):
citizenship.
He was not reinstated untilJimmy Carter in the 70s and we
all know how Jimmy Carter likeshis pardons and he posthumously
awarded Jefferson Davis UScitizenship.
So she said that we have toremember that he might not
(42:36):
wanted his US citizenshipreinstated.
So just remember that next timeyou talk about Jefferson Davis.
And she made that point.
It was a mic drop, john neededto change his manière de voir
(42:56):
after that statement I didn'tthink other people under the age
of 50 could think like thatbeyond me.
Not to toot my own butt, I waslike whoa, is that a
20-something saying You're such?
Matt (43:10):
an intellectual John.
Is that what you want to hear?
Jon (43:13):
No, I'm just saying she made a good point that makes you
quite.
I don't know why she said it.
I feel like I don't think otherthan no one really in the tour
was asking much about it.
But she's like yeah, just oh,and remember like who said he
really wanted his us citizenshipback?
Yeah, she just threw the hammerdown, that was that so that's
(43:35):
the white house and confederacy.
Matt (43:37):
And we went out we saw there's a cool statue of george
washington on a horse and hasall the other like statesmen
from virginia at the time, youknow, around there.
It's pretty cool statue.
Um, that's near the I guess isthat the capitol building yeah
capitol building was cool.
Jon (43:53):
Executive man.
Current executive mansion ofVirginia.
Matt (43:56):
Yeah, that was cool.
So you know, there was a little, there was some.
There was probably a lot moreto see in Richmond, but you know
we had a, an appointment at avery important landmark in
John's life and kind of a bit ofa little bit of nailing history
folklore.
We went to Sherwood Forest,which was about a 20-minute
(44:20):
drive, 20, 25-minute drive outof Richmond to Sherwood Forest,
which is President John Tyler'spresidency.
Now, you may know John Tyler's,one of john's favorite
presidents.
Uh, we talked about hisinauguration a while back where
(44:41):
he had a bunch of you know, uh,you know some, some interesting
aspects of his presidency, someaccidents he was named the
accident, whatever.
Um, so, john, I actually, ifpeople don't remember, and john,
I was thinking about this, Iwas a little bummed you didn't
bring it along with you, eventhough maybe you should have.
I did that when I got back hereI did purchase john a silver
(45:04):
coin commemorating john tyler'spresidency.
Um, I think that would havebeen pretty cool thing to show
to um, our tour guide, butthat's beyond the point.
So Sherwood Forest if you wantto go there, it's $35.
So the White House I'm justgoing to be all out just to let
everyone know about the money.
White House of the Confederacywas $15 per person for the tour.
(45:26):
Sherwood Forest is $35 perperson to tour the house.
You can tour the grounds for$10 per person, I think, not per
car, I think it's per person.
It's an honor system there fortouring the ground, so I assume
most people don't pay.
But the house tour is $35 aperson.
If you want to do it you haveto call the Sherwood Forest
(45:47):
Foundation.
When you get the number off oftheir website that was made in
2002.
And it looks like the websiteof the hamster dance people.
You know, like the remember thehamster dance website back in
like the 90s where the hamstersare doing like.
It just reminded me that it'shtml.
Jon (46:09):
It's so old school.
Matt (46:11):
I think the only thing that they have updated from this
website was the cost of thetour.
And I called in and this isgoing back a little bit.
I called in and the lady Justto give a little backstory.
The lady answered.
I said hey, I have a, I wantedto schedule a tour.
She's like Okay, how many is itgoing to be?
And at the time we were maybegoing to have 6 people with us
(46:31):
on the bachelor party, so I saidsix.
She's like wow.
I said yeah, yeah.
And she's like, okay, she'svery excited.
And then I said just.
And she's like okay, you're allset, whatever, I set up the
time.
And she said okay.
And I said just, so you know,I'm bringing John Tyler's
biggest number one fan down here, so be prepared.
And she said, aw, how old is he, insinuating that this was an
(46:55):
8-year-old, 9-year-old?
And I said, oh, 37.
She's like, oh, okay, it wasreally funny.
And I explained to her that wewere going down there for a
bachelor party and she lovedthat and apparently word spread
because our tour guide also knew.
I didn't talk to the tour guideon the phone.
Our tour guide knew that it wasa bachelor party, so I'm sure
(47:16):
they had, uh, high expectationsfor us coming in.
I never let them know that wewere going from six to four, but
or we actually went six tothree, um, but I never said
anything, so, um, you knowwhatever um, and I think he knew
that, because we were supposedto give them a call a half an
hour before we arrived on theground.
Yeah, so the directions that wegot.
(47:37):
So this is how it started.
So we had left the Richmond andwe're heading there.
We grabbed a quick bite to eatnear Sherwood Forest and I call
the guy, get his cell phonenumber and he answers like hello
.
I'm like hey, is this Tim?
He's like yeah.
I'm like hey, um, is this tim?
(48:00):
He's like yeah, um.
I'm like uh, oh, hey, uh, thisis matt, I have a two o'clock
appointment for a tour.
And he's like um, yeah, likeyeah, um, we're uh, just letting
you know we're uh, I was toldto call you half an hour
beforehand and he's like you'renot here yet, and this is like a
half an hour before.
I'm like no, I was told to callyou a half an hour beforehand.
And he's like you're not hereyet, and this is like a half an
hour before.
I'm like no, I was told to callyou a half an hour before we'll
be there, to just call you, letyou know.
So therefore, he's like allright, and I'm like.
(48:22):
He's like how many are there?
I'm like three.
He's like okay, and hangs upand I I hung up and I'm like oh
boy, like kind of killed themood, ruined the lunch, um,
because we were kind of in thatthen.
Jon (48:33):
Then I felt like I was in a rush.
Matt (48:35):
Then I was like, oh, there's no way we can be late.
The directions we got gave us a15-minute leeway.
But after talking to Tim on thephone I'm like, yeah, this
isn't a.
Jon (48:46):
We gotta go, yeah, we gotta go.
Matt (48:48):
So we rushed through lunch .
I was doing a little bit of ofwork and I got rushed and
flustered and messed that up,but whatever.
So we show up to SherwoodForest and we walk up to the
porch and boy oh boy do we seethe most stereotypical historic
(49:13):
amateur, most stereotypicalamateur history enthusiast that
you can possibly have what'sthat?
Jon (49:20):
docent, amateur dose what's that mean?
Matt (49:23):
what's that it's?
Jon (49:24):
like the.
It's like a tour guideglorified name for a tour guide
oh really, I've never heard thatword are you sure is that the
could be this guy's got baggykhakis on.
Matt (49:39):
We see him from the back, baggy khakis, on a blue blazer,
a hat and a glorious whiteponytail coming out the bottom
of this hat matching, matchingcheeto dust on the once we got a
closer look, he's got cheetodust all over could have been
pollen, but I I think we bothagreed that it was cheeto dust
(50:01):
and like hair and he just lookedlike the blazer was too big,
the pants were too long, thishat he had a pin on to make
himself look official but likefrom all that I could gather
from talking to this guy, hejust like mows their lawn and
just like kind of worked his wayinto the family to like do this
tour, um, and so yeah, greatguy if he's listening love you.
Jon (50:25):
Tim did a fantastic job, which we're gonna explain here
in a minute.
Yeah, so part of it.
So we find out.
I think we came to realize hewas a little little testy on the
phone because, believe it ornot, we weren't the only people
on this tour which might havebeen a shock to everyone
involved.
I think the other people justshowed up and they maybe did a
(50:45):
cost-benefit analysis and saidoh, like former president, I
didn't know that.
We were just driving, we weretrying to get to Williamsburg,
we were trying to drive down thepeninsula or whatever.
Oh, former president, johnTyler's house, let's stop in and
see what we find.
And they did a little costbenefit.
Do we pay $10 or $35?
Although, no, you had to callahead, so all those people had
planned to be there.
Matt (51:06):
I'm thinking maybe, but I'm thinking he was there and
there were people walking aroundand I think he just there's no
way.
Those people called ahead oftime.
I didn't ask him.
But my thought is he just goesaround and like, if there's
people walking the tour, maybehe offered them like hey, I'm
doing a, I'm doing a tour of thehouse in 35 minutes, like maybe
.
But then again, um, two peopledid walk up while we were in
(51:31):
this tour and he just did try toget, he did try to sell that,
but then he the way that, theway that he picked the way that
he pitched.
It was like, yeah, you could dothis a way higher price point
and it was cash, only they couldpay that.
Jon (51:47):
You could pay the ten dollars fee through an app.
It was like a scan the barcode.
You could pay with a creditcard, but the the the tour of
the house was cash or check, soyou literally go in the house.
Matt (51:58):
It's a 19th century home.
Jon (52:00):
You literally go back into the 19th century when you walk
in the home in terms of payingfor it he said, yeah, it's a
higher price point and it'lltake like two to three hours and
these people were like oh yeah,no, we're good, and you could
tell because we were walking, wecouldn't pitch it worse, he
definitely did not.
Matt (52:15):
People were like oh yeah, no, we're good.
They walked away and you couldtell, because we were walking,
you couldn't pitch it worse.
Jon (52:19):
He definitely did not want them to come along, we walked up
at that point to the classiclike oh, what do you do for work
?
We walked up and he's askingeveryone else on the tour, what
do you do for work?
And this one guy's like oh, Iworked in export, or what did he
say?
Matt (52:34):
I don in export, or what did he say?
I don't know.
Jon (52:35):
Global trade Like real, like kind of cocky, and we got
more on him later.
But he yeah, but you know so wehad a preschool teacher.
He had a preschool teacher andI always appreciate that, seeing
what she was going to bring tothe table after our friend at
the Kachuska Museum, I don'tknow if she biffed it.
Matt (52:56):
Never asked us what we do for a living Never asked us.
Until the end.
He asked Mr R, but he neverasked.
I'm guessing he probablyfigured we didn't have jobs.
We're here on a Friday, not inRichmond.
We're here on a Friday wearingSheetz sunglasses, some Sheetz
knockoff pit vipers that Ipurchased for everyone.
Um, not looking the best, notlooking the part.
(53:20):
And um, so yeah, so we getthere and um, he starts the tour
.
He said it was going to takelike two to three hours.
I'm like, ah, there's no way.
There's no way.
So he gets, he gets started.
He's taught we're in the, we'reso.
The house is, I think it's likethe longest plantation, like in
the in the country.
Like it's long, it's like longand narrow.
It's like if you took like anormal sized house and stretched
(53:43):
it, um is basically what it is.
And we were standing in themiddle and he goes yeah, the
house is 300 feet long.
He's like that's the samelength as a football field.
So we're standing in the middleof it.
So anyone here who's interestedin football?
From here to the end of thehouse, that's how long a 50-yard
field goal is.
Jon (54:03):
Got a lot of head nods out of that one, a lot of, hmm,
interesting A little bottom lipout A little head nod.
Matt (54:09):
I was like what?
I was just like I'm what I look.
I'm like okay, I sure I yeah,so I think that's exactly.
You know, that is exactly whywe came to tour sherwood forest
is because we're interested.
Jon (54:27):
But I think you specifically said that, because
the tour began off of thebalcony.
So we're standing in front ofthe home, outside us the house,
looking at the house.
I think we were specificallystarting the tour there, so he
could tell us that informationbecause then, within five
minutes, he's like, oh, we'regonna move up to the balcony now
and they had like I'm lookingat the picture they had like
(54:47):
four or five like lawn chairs,like deck chairs out there, uh,
and a couple benches.
He's like, oh, we're gonna comeup and stay here for a while so
we're literally outside andthen he takes us to the front
porch there's flies, everywherethere's flies everywhere and
like we're gonna fly around hisface.
Matt (55:06):
They were eating the cheeto dust off of his jacket.
They kept hitting me in the leg.
I was so uncomfortable.
But when he said we.
Jon (55:12):
So we walk up the first porch.
He's like, oh, it's all right,we're to hang here for a little
bit.
Matt (55:15):
And we're thinking, okay, like cool, it's like he's just
going to give us a quick like 10minutes, maybe a five to 10
minutes.
Jon (55:22):
A little history of the house or something.
Matt (55:23):
Get into the home.
We'll get into the house infive minutes.
We're just sitting here, youknow, taking it in whatever he
so he offers everybody a seat,and me and John and Mr R we all
say like, oh no, we're good,Because everyone else was older,
there were seats for us.
But I'm like I'll just stand,whatever, we're not going to be
here long.
(55:44):
We can't be here that long.
Mr R has a bum knee and helasts about five minutes and
then he finally takes a seat,and then I'm still standing and
yeah, like takes a seat, andthen I'm still standing and yeah
, like john said, he proceeds tostart talking about everything
under the sun and like we'rethere for so long and then, like
, it gets to the point where Ican't take it.
I feel like I can't take a seatbecause I've been standing for
(56:05):
so long that now, like I've, theopportunity has lost, like you
were lost.
Jon (56:12):
Yeah, as soon as you sit down, he'll say, all right, well
, now we're going in.
It was one of those yeah,situations, but basically it was
, uh, we weren't getting so muchof the house he was.
That was kind of his thehistory of john tyler, but with
a very core focus on theelection because, as our fans
some, of our fans may know hewas the first president to
(56:33):
assume the office, uh, as a vicepresident.
So william henry harrison died.
He was only in there for amonth.
He told us all of that wecovered that.
Matt (56:42):
We covered this in the.
We could have just played theepisode where we went over the
like his inauguration the sostand history he just did a
whole bit on the lead up to that.
I mean he's talking about thecampaign slogans, how this was
(57:03):
the first modern election withusing media songs and all this
stuff and newspapers.
It's interesting stuff.
He said it was the he.
Also, I think he was incorrectin saying that this is something
we talked about on the podcast.
I think he said that it was thefirst um election where the
(57:23):
common man was able to votebecause they had switched it
from only landowners, but Ibelieve that was the election
before that with andrew jacksonI know jackson definitely was a
major proponent of moving thatin that way.
I think it was his, the secondthe re-election made.
I could be wrong, but I thoughtit was, but that was the
(57:43):
backdrop of it.
Jon (57:44):
That was the backdrop that more men could vote.
They basically did away withthe property ownership
requirement.
And he made a point of sayingthat.
Well, it's kind of a shamebecause there were some women in
parts of Virginia that ownedplantations and they did have
the right to vote.
I thought that was interesting.
At some point there were somewomen who could have voted with
the property requirement.
(58:05):
They owned property Technically.
They had property in terms ofland, not in terms of slaves or
whatever other property likelanded property.
And then he said basically,yeah, with that new rule, and
that's how those women lost theright to vote.
But yeah, that was the backdrop.
So, like with the election of1840.
Matt (58:25):
So we're standing on a porch getting like slapped with
flies.
I don't even know what theseflies are, they're like flies
I've never seen.
Like we're in swamps.
It's pretty like it wasactually interesting.
Like it's like swamp land downthere which you wouldn't really
expect.
And I'm like it's like he'stalking about all this stuff,
like he's going way off topic,um, like and then doing the on
(58:47):
your spot questions to thepeople.
And john, at one point likedimed me out, which he kind of I
did deserve it because I'vealways said you should be
talking about the podcast.
So he did say this guy's got apodcast, ask him to pointing to
me.
And I just completely, justshut down and I totally wussed
(59:08):
out and I was like I don't knowand I just cowered and he's like
get on the podcast.
And I I just didn't, I justreally wussed out there.
It was just a weird vibe.
It was a weird vibe.
He was asking questions.
You know he asked the questionof like um, what the sandwich
islands were, and you know hesaid like you have a podcast,
(59:29):
what's the answer to me?
And I'm like I don't know.
And I said the Florida keys.
He's like the Florida, what?
I was like I don't know theFlorida keys.
He's like no, I don't know.
Yeah and um yeah, so it wasreally.
Jon (59:44):
but he also made a point of saying like the house.
So he's a family friend and amajor point of the major point
of this house, it is the onlycontinuously lived in former
presidential home that is stilllived in by descendants of that
president.
So the home has been in theTyler family since John Tyler
lived in it and as of only acouple years ago, because now
(01:00:06):
his grandson basically is notliving in hospice but he has to
live like kind of in a nursinghome and he only comes back
regularly.
But John Tyler's great grandsonstill lives in the house,
william tyler, and he made apoint of saying that, uh, he's
basically a 63 year old mangoing on 18 62 62 no he's 63.
No, he's 63, you're right,you're right it's just just
(01:00:29):
cashing on that social security.
I'm sure his great grandfatherwould be thrilled.
Matt (01:00:33):
Yeah, he's like, he's like oh yeah, that section of the
this is back when he wasexplaining the house.
He's like oh yeah, that section, that's William's man cave.
We can't go in there.
That's his man cave.
Oh, william, I'll tell you what.
You see him.
He'll come up here with his bigtruck, with his snorkel exhaust
, and you'll know when he's here.
He's 63 going on 18.
(01:00:54):
Everyone's like okay, sobasically this guy is just your
typical Billy Madison-esqueperson.
I would say Steamed like it.
Jon (01:01:02):
That's how we conveyed him.
I don't know we never met.
Matt (01:01:04):
We never made him.
That's how you conveyed him.
Yeah, so you had.
Jon (01:01:09):
William and then his father , who is Harrison Tyler.
If you just search him onYouTube, the Today Show did
interviews with him.
Cbs Morning did a big thingyears, few years ago with he and
his wife.
So yeah, he was like the guy isknown as like the only he's a
grandson of a president that wasliving in the 1840s.
(01:01:32):
So just as crazy as math.
But he made a point of sayingall these, a lot of these
stories that he would say well,mr tyler said and whenever he
said mr tyler he was referringto harrison tyler, john tyler's
grandson a lot of uh, you know,kind of folksy, you know family
lore about it and was kind ofgoing off that um, like way,
(01:01:57):
like super tan, is that?
Matt (01:01:58):
no one really cared about the one?
Then, like he finishes all thisstuff and then he's like okay.
He's like okay, that's all Ihave for this is actually,
unless you want to hear anotherstory, you know I got one more
for you and so I say like I'llhear another one.
Like I wanted this guy to keepgoing, so then he told a story
about how harrison was at theWhite House with FDR yeah, as a
(01:02:20):
kid, he was born in 1928.
Yeah, yeah, and he was Because Iguess he hosted former
president's families or whatever.
And I guess Harrison Tyler saidsomething like he was like hey,
you got any questions?
Or something.
And Harrison Tyler said, yeah,can you wrap this up or
(01:02:42):
something like that.
Something, some story like thatwhich is like, which maybe was
like yeah, can this be over likethe tour please?
So we walk in.
Rule number one of this tour isno pictures inside the house,
which is a weird thing.
He claims that the reason forthat is mrs tyler, who is now
dead, didn't want anyone takingpictures of the house to catalog
(01:03:04):
it.
Jon (01:03:04):
I guess to steal stuff.
But it's interesting becauseafter this tour and just only a
few days ago, I loaded up a twoand a half hour long documentary
that c-span had done in like1999 and they literally had a
tour guide in their home filmingeverything which is the same.
Matt (01:03:25):
That you went to the house and then watch the two and a
half hour documentary about thatis like that's insanity to me.
I was trying to prepare for thepodcast, uh-huh sure so
anything I forgot?
yeah, so, um, so we go in, john,there's a, there's a door
knocker on there that hassherwood forest engraved in
there and, um, we, the dooropens and john, john takes his
(01:03:50):
phone out to take a picture ofthe door knocker and I like slap
his hand and I'm like nopictures.
And he's like oh, I forgot, anduh, I gotta get a picture of
that.
Jon (01:04:00):
Technically I could have taken a picture of it before the
door opened, because it wasoutside but not inside just a
little.
Matt (01:04:07):
Just a little side note that I thought was interesting.
There was one question thatjohn had that he didn't know
about and we didn't have to askit because it was answered um,
the uh, uh, it's called to the.
The plantation is calledsherwood forest because john
tyler's arch nemesis, henry clay.
When john tyler finished hispresidency, his one term henry
(01:04:29):
clay said something like he cango back to the to.
He can go back to his thatcriminal.
What was it that?
Jon (01:04:36):
crusader, you know that moral crusader, you know that
moral crusader.
Or whatever could go back tohis Shorewood Forest, like get
out of DC, you're done, you'rewashed up, you can go back to
being Robin Hood in theShorewood Forest and John Tyler
really took a liking to it, sohe named his plantation.
Matt (01:04:50):
It's kind of cool.
It's kind of like a middlefinger to Henry Clay, like that
name.
So that's kind of cool.
He's like yeah, sure, I'll callit that, Thank you.
Jon (01:04:57):
I loved how much he One thing we said as we walked up
too he's like Kentuckyans don'tlike coming here very much, and
I knew exactly what he wastalking about.
He said anyone who likes HenryClay would not be a fan of this
house.
Henry.
Matt (01:05:07):
Clay's from Kentucky, yeah .
Jon (01:05:18):
I got.
I think what he actually saidwas oh yeah, well, you know, you
were from Kentucky, we'd havereal problems.
Matt (01:05:23):
That is great.
Making fun of him is awesome.
Jon (01:05:31):
So we get in here and, like I got to say, we talked about
this a little bit after the factis like the house was a dump
For being a lived in home of aformer president that's actively
doing tours every day of theweek, monday through Friday.
Like they're doing tours, theysaid, and they're having people
come in and film or what haveyou.
It needed some touching up forsure.
Matt (01:05:47):
Yeah, like it was dusty, it was like needed a paint job,
which I know it's cool that guywas there.
Jon (01:05:54):
We saw a guy walk through it.
Matt (01:05:56):
Covered in paint.
Jon (01:05:57):
Right through the middle of our tour, stopped our tour
guide, dead in his tracks, fromexplaining whatever story was
going on.
Oh, yeah, yeah, got that truck,you moving that truck.
And the guy was kind ofobviously in his task.
He was just like doing histhing.
Matt (01:06:11):
He was like mid-work, he had to turn, stop and turn
around and be like doing histhing.
He was like mid-work and turnaround and be like, yeah, I'm
going for it right now, likekind of, since anyway we him's
like acting like he's runningthe show.
Jon (01:06:20):
Yeah, oh yeah you got all that.
Oh yeah, good, good, good andit was like but like it was cool
.
Matt (01:06:26):
There was some.
There was just a bunch oftrainers, very cluttered, they
had a bunch of stuff there.
They had some cool artwork,they had some cool stuff.
There was they had the chinafrom the White House that
happened to be.
It was William Henry Harrison'schina.
So when you that was a littlecool story when you become
president, you're given acertain amount of money to
furnish Congress appropriates tofurnish the house.
(01:06:47):
But since William Henry Harrisonhad died, they didn't give any
money to John Tyler.
They didn't have.
They had already given it toWilliam Henry Harrison, who blew
it on whatever.
So Tyler couldn't do it, butthen he ended up paying for it
himself, I guess.
Jon (01:07:00):
No, he bought China.
Congress appropriated funds toWilliam Henry Harrison.
They bought the China he and Iguess maybe his wife wanted he
died a month into office.
Congress didn't have any moremoney to give, because they just
gave it to the guy before andTyler said we just use this.
And then tyler's wife at thattime and julia gardner he would
eventually marry wall in office.
Matt (01:07:21):
I think she began furnishing as well yeah, so they
had, so they had, so they hadthat china.
Though that was really cool.
He showed that.
Did you walk right up to it?
Jon (01:07:32):
it was really nice it looked he kept like so tim was
tim was a rule breaker, you know.
Matt (01:07:37):
I mean, he was like they had a velvet, they had a, they
had a velvet rope.
Jon (01:07:42):
He was pulling it back, letting us walk it through the
the door open into the kitchen,which was a no-go, which was off
, yeah, so like so we so therewas like maybe there were like
three room, maybe two rooms thatyou could see.
Matt (01:07:54):
That was kind of was the museum part of it.
And there was another door thatjust happened to be open and
Tim said, oh, that door shouldbe locked.
He's like, well, you guys wantto go in and look at that?
He's like, well, you podcastersyou can't talk about this on
the podcast, so promise me thatyou're not.
And I said, well, I don't knowif I can answer that right now
(01:08:15):
To which that guy that John hadalluded to, who had that real
fancy job, turns around and goes.
You better get an answer quick.
You've been answeringeverything wrong all day for
having a podcast.
And I was like dead serious, hewasn't.
I'm like okay, he was joking.
Sorry, tim, breaking the rules.
Jon (01:08:33):
He wanted to hang with the boys.
He was there with his wife.
He wanted breaking the rules.
He wanted to hang with the boys.
He was there with his wife.
He wanted to be one of the boysin john tyler's house, which
was a bachelor pad.
When john tyler built the home,he bought it.
It was like a bachelor pad, sohe wanted to be one of the boys.
He wanted to join the bash yeah, so so then, um, mr.
Matt (01:08:47):
Then mr r then asked the question um, oh, so people live
in that part of the house andthen this part of the house they
don't live, which Tim got veryfrustrated about and said no, I
told you already, they live inthe whole house, they live here.
It's a lived-in house.
And Mr R is like oh okay, sorry.
Jon (01:09:07):
Well, he did kind of say that it was a very big home.
It's the size of a footballfield.
Matt (01:09:12):
I don't know if he told you already football field.
Jon (01:09:18):
I don't know if he told you already, but uh, basically the
family was so large.
John tyler himself had 15children eight from his first
marriage, second, seven from hissecond marriage and the guy who
lived in the house, william, sohis great grandson.
He came from.
I think I was the the secondyoungest child of the 15 is what
this line that's living in thehouse is currently.
They basically said that at onepoint the house was split in
(01:09:44):
two.
One family was living on oneside from the main entrance and
another family was living on theother side.
It was so big that they couldjust separate.
I don't think that was any timerecently.
This house was huge and there'sso many descendants.
But we kind of just walked downthis, this line and he showed a
bunch of cool stuff along theway.
(01:10:05):
There was pictures of thomasjefferson, things from
washington.
In the main foyer, when youwalk in, there was a really
interesting stand which above ithad had john's picture on it,
the painting that the Uniontroops had tried at what prying
from the ground, I guess.
So yeah, the Union army movedin on the peninsula during the
(01:10:29):
Civil War and they came to hishouse, didn't burn it down, but
did take a bunch of things.
Matt (01:10:38):
And I guess, because it was yeah, one thing thing that
was cool remember the dogs thatwere at the, uh, the dogs at the
entrance that were made of likecast iron, that they tried?
Jon (01:10:46):
yeah, they were britney.
Matt (01:10:47):
They were britney spaniels , I think, two dogs they were
local virginian breed.
That no exists, he well.
Well, he claims they're extinct.
But then when you ask like oh,when did they go extinct?
He's like I don't know.
I actually don't know if theyactually went extinct.
But yeah, the Union soldiersactually tried to steal those,
but they got as far as the gateand dropped them because of how
(01:11:10):
heavy they were.
They stayed there for yearsuntil I guess, till William
finally got off his lazy 63going on 18's butt to pick him
up and get him back on there.
So those were cool.
Yeah, I mean, it was just.
The house was just dilapidated,Not dilapidated.
(01:11:30):
If you bought this house, youwould have to do a lot of work
before you would host peoplethere.
You're not bought this house.
You would have to do a lot ofwork before you would host
people there.
You're not buying this houseand bragging about it right away
is all I'll say.
Jon (01:11:43):
Yeah, it felt dusty.
Matt (01:11:45):
Yeah, it was just dusty and whatever.
So the tour, just to sum it up,the tour then ends in a
ballroom, in a ballroom, andthis is where the a real a real
uh moment of the weekend hadoccurred.
Jon (01:12:03):
so we're in this like long hall, which was a ballroom that
john tyler, I think, himselfmaybe designed and he wanted to
just kind of batch it up there.
That's where he was.
There's a ballroom.
It was kind of lame, small.
It was small but for the dancein the two-hour documentary I
watched they did a danceperformance.
They showed the waltz, thedance he was talking about.
(01:12:25):
I forget what it was calledVirginia something or other.
Two-step, wasn't that?
And it's basically just youhave a lineup on either side and
then you just have a couplethat kind of goes in between the
two columns, and that's kind ofwhy you just need a long haul
for it.
And then you just kind of get tothe end and then you're part of
the line and then anothercouple goes down.
Matt (01:12:47):
We could do that at your wedding, maybe.
Maybe Could that be fun?
Jon (01:12:51):
Yeah, that'd be fun, pay a little homage, and so we're in
there.
It's where the tour is wrappingup.
He's got like a littlenightstand with some books in it
and you can buy some things,but it's at this point.
We then paid for the tour andeveryone's paying.
Matt (01:13:06):
Well, so he showed so as part of the tour, as part of
this ballroom.
It was kind of.
It was actually somethinginteresting that I didn't
realize is there were thesemirrors on the wall and they had
candlesticks attached to thebottom of them, and what he
showed us was that you have thecandlesticks outward and up
against the wall during the day,I guess, and then at night,
(01:13:27):
when you want to light up theroom better, you moved them so
they were then perpendicular tothe wall and then the light
reflected off the mirror to givemore light into the room.
So he had showed how thatworked by moving the candlestick
.
So then, so this is where wepay.
We paid with cash.
(01:13:47):
We gave him.
I didn't know if you tip him.
I was going back and forth, Ihad asked a couple people.
You tip him, I was going backand forth, I had asked a couple
people, and so I finally, justso everyone had left and it was
just the three of us and him andI gave him the money, and then
I said, hey, do you accept tips?
And he said, well, sure, ifyou're given.
Jon (01:14:07):
He snatched that 20, that Andrew Jackson, right out of
your hands.
Matt (01:14:11):
Which you know all $35 probably went right in his
pocket anyway, I don't know,they had like a change purse in
there, but who knows.
But so we pay him and then he,you know, then again, so then it
was just the boys, it was thethree of us me, john, mr R and
Timmy.
Timmy Coyne, and you know hewas, you know he was like hey,
just you know.
So why?
John Tyler?
(01:14:31):
Again, you know he was, he wasvery fascinated into why the
hell we were there, basically,and he didn't really get the
sincerity behind it, I think,just kind of surprised that we
were there.
So, john Anser, I think hisanswer was he followed the
Constitution, which our boy,ryan Powell, as we learned today
, would also be a fan of.
That reasoning that's a wholeother story.
But he starts talking aboutthat and then he's just.
(01:14:59):
Then he's talking about morestuff and like I'm like, dude,
I'm done with this tour.
I mean we're talking two and ahalf hours going through three
rooms of a house.
That's how wordy this guy is.
It's.
It was starting to get prettyold.
Jon (01:15:05):
I think john even was getting a little little like I
think he dimmed my enthusiasmfor john tyler maybe a little
bit.
A little bit.
So then he so then he's likedoing that.
Matt (01:15:14):
So then I'm like you know what?
So I start walking.
Then I like, I like break, I'mbored and I have add, so like I
break away and I start walkingthrough the, through the
ballroom, just looking around,and I go up to one of these
mirrors that have thesecandlesticks and I go look at
this and they're originals fromthe 1840s.
(01:15:35):
So he's in the middle talking toMr R about what he does for a
living and I start touching thiscandlestick and as soon as I
touched it and brought it towhere the position it would be
in to reflect off of the mirror,and as soon as I did that, Tim
stops what he's talking aboutand goes hey, what are you doing
?
Jon (01:15:52):
Don't touch that?
And to which Matt repliedwithout a second to spare what
you touched it.
To which Tim responded yeah,but I know which one to touch.
So I literally saw my37-year-old best man give a
(01:16:13):
10-year-old's response to thismuseum docent.
That's what he deserves, thoughlet's be real, I mean, he kind
of we cooled him down, I thinkhe was still kind of cool after
that like, oh you know, it'sokay.
I was bored, I gotta touchthings, oh.
And then he said that, oh, Iget bored, I start touching
things when I get bored.
Matt (01:16:34):
He also said that to him, and then Tim said yeah, I
noticed you were like leaned upon everything in the door.
I'm like Tim, you should takethat as a little tip we're doing
a solid.
Maybe you should, you know, makea little bit of a show To
(01:16:55):
compare the two.
The White House and theConfederacy was a great,
well-done, well-prepared, Ithink it was even like 45.
It was very well done, exactlyhow you would want it.
And then this one was just amess.
It was like a mess of a tour.
The house was trash and thetour guide was just.
He finally had people listeningto it.
(01:17:16):
You could tell this guy doesn'thave anybody to talk to like any
time, that he's not doing thistour.
Um, but it was funny and yeah.
Then he he like wouldn't let itgo.
He was very upset and we walkedout and he's like is there
anything wrong with it?
I'm like, tim, it's fine.
What, what do you?
What do you expect it to do?
Which john was actually?
I thought john would have beenlike, yeah, I don't know why,
(01:17:37):
but John was a little upset thatI touched it too.
I didn't think anything of it.
I mean, if it was fragile, justput rope around it.
There was no velvet rope aroundthose mirrors, it lived in home
Moodle lived there.
Jon (01:17:50):
So you can't touch it.
I think you got possessed bythe ghost.
Matt (01:17:55):
Yeah, that's haunting the halls that he said was plastered
.
Jon (01:17:59):
So there's apparently a picture, a face of a woman that
he says has been painted over,plastered over, and it keeps
just punching through, and Idon't believe it.
Somebody fell and broke theirneck on one of the staircases, I
don't know.
It's been haunted ever since.
Matt (01:18:14):
So then we took then we took a tour of the grounds.
We walked around a little bitand then, as we were leaving, we
saw Tim.
So this was like we took likemaybe another like 15, 20
minutes to walk the grounds.
There's not really that much tosee, it's kind of some of the
stuff's kind of cool.
And then we see him walk andlike literally like he walks
into the woods and like all thatI can compare it to is like you
(01:18:38):
ever see the movie legend ofbagger Vance John with Wilson.
He's like a caddy, it was likeat the at the end of that movie,
like bagger Vance's walks awayand like disappears Cause like I
guess he didn't really exist inthe film.
Is that the okay?
Like that's kind of whathappened with Tim.
He walked into the forest justlike oh, that's it.
Jon (01:18:59):
It was like it almost didn't even happen, tim, but to
just return the next day forsome other poor saps having a
tour Three-hour long tour, athree-hour tour I mean, I feel
like Gilligan would have beenbetter off staying on the island
than having a tour of Sher.
I feel like gilligan would havebeen better off on staying on
the island than having a tour ofsure it was.
Matt (01:19:21):
I mean it was fun.
I was glad we went.
It was definitely a bucket listitem for john and it was kind
of that was the main reason whythat was like.
Well, I guess it wasn't reallywhat got us down there, because
I just like had saw the, thehistoric triangle, I'm like,
yeah, that'd be cool to go to.
But then noticing that SherwoodForest was right, there is kind
of like a no-brainer to getdown there.
(01:19:42):
Well, it's like a no-brainer,Like, oh okay, Not only is that,
but if Sherwood Forest is there, we might as well do it.
This is like a one chance wecan do it.
It's a little bit of acommitment.
Yeah, so the time we did it,Like I'm saying, the house is
just a dump.
They could do so much work andfor $35 a person, I feel like
they could be putting that moneyto better use.
(01:20:03):
I mean you Well.
So you signed a guestbook at theend of the tour and I didn't
want to put my name down.
Neither did Mr R Jon put hisname down.
I didn't want to put my namedown.
Mr R put his name down.
I signed it to do's Kosciuszkoand Tim knows my name because I
had signed up for it and he keptlooking at the guestbook while
(01:20:25):
we were there and I'm like, oh,my god, he's gonna see I put a
fake name.
He's gonna see I put a fakename.
He never said anything.
But yeah, I signed it to do'sKosciuszko and it was dated.
And the reason I bring that upis like there are people who
take this tour fairly often.
I think the people who werethere, the last people signed
were like two days before us.
Yeah, that's every day of theweek.
(01:20:46):
I mean they offer it.
I mean you have to schedule it.
I assume that's why they don'tget a lot of people.
But I mean mean they must make.
They bring in a decent amountof money with this 35 dollars
and I think it just goes halfinto timmy's pocket and half
into william's, you know fancave projects and duck stands
(01:21:09):
which he had scattered
Jon (01:21:10):
around tree stands.
There's a big deer problem onsherwood forest apparently, but
yeah, I had a lot of fun it was.
It has been on my bucket listfor some time.
Lauren g can even attest tothat.
Um, yeah, he's one of myfavorite presidents interesting
family history, the fact thatit's still in the family.
The house needs a little tlc,but I think I think tim, tim and
(01:21:36):
co will will eventually getaround to it.
So, yeah, that was it, and soby the time we wrapped up there,
it was right on four o'clock,uh, on friday night we were able
to get to our airbnb, uh, whichwas cool.
And then, uh, our fourth member, mr w, showed up friday evening
(01:21:57):
.
He flew down from boston allright, fans.
Matt (01:22:01):
Um, that is it for day one of this fantastic bachelor bash
experience.
Um, john and I went a littleover time, as usual, but I just
(01:22:22):
couldn't cut out any of thosefantastic details that we just
went over from the two stopsthat we had, so I figured we'd
split this up into a two-parter.
If you guys have hung on thislong, godspeed or you know, I
(01:22:45):
don't know what you say, butthank you and we're going to end
this and then, you know, nextweek come on back and we talk
about the historic triangle ofVirginia, which, to tease it a
little bit, was a joke.
(01:23:05):
So we had a lot to say, as youcan tell, we kind of.
What we realized is I don'tthink John and I will ever do
anything and not think that wecould do it better, even though
we can't.
You'll hear a lot of that nextweek.
I don't know if we really gotto it much this episode, but
(01:23:31):
yeah, come back, listen to usnext week, and I hope you guys
enjoyed the details of a tripthat you weren't on, so I hope
we made it interesting for you.
All right, I got hairy legs.
(01:24:05):
Come on, man, and we saybye-bye.
getting back used to using these buttons, I kind of forgot
which one, what they all do ohboy, what they all do, oh boy.
We got some splaining to do.
Jon (00:33):
Wow, check these mics even work anymore fans, do they even
work?
Wow, wow, wow.
We promised some big.
Where do we leave it off withthe mat?
Matt (00:50):
big promises, big letdown big hundred divers a little bit
too much.
Nintendo switch a little bit ofthat, a little bit of this, a
little bit of that, a little bitmostly nintendo switch.
Jon (01:01):
I think well, if I recall correctly, it was yourself that
encouraged me to get the nowseven-year-old Nintendo Switch
sports game.
I was just discovering it and.
I was hooked Hook line andsinker as they say.
Matt (01:19):
Point the finger, we'll call you John Finger Pointer,
john the Finger Pointer.
Jon (01:25):
No man.
Matt (01:26):
I'm trying to think of, like an Italian, you know
mafiosa name that could makethat work Johnny Fingerpoints.
Jon (01:40):
Johnny Fingerpoints.
Over here, Guy blames everybodyelse for the Switch problems.
Don't want to focus on hishistory podcast.
Well, I thought we were lookingfor some stuff and then I got
word from my co-host that hepulled the plug on our
(02:00):
podcasting.
Matt (02:01):
You weren't working on anything.
You weren't working onanythinging.
You weren't working on anythingdon't play, don't play.
Don't play this like oh, I wasjust, I was really working hard
then all of a sudden, matt justpulled the plug on me.
That last episode really tookthe wind out of my sales and I
(02:21):
think it took the wind out of alot of our listeners.
Sales downloads are down whatwas that?
Jon (02:29):
it's post, christmas post post holiday period you know,
people are.
It's cold, it's winter, peopleare just over the winter months.
Now it's it's may, sun's out,birds and bees are humming.
I just I'm excited to be backbehind the microphone.
I don't know about you.
Matt (02:53):
Well.
I tried to pull the plug tofinish John's story.
I tried to pull the plugcompletely on it.
I was going to unsubscribe toall of my podcast subscriptions
in the sense of Descript andBuzzsprout are the people who
host our nice podcast and itturns out that I was about three
(03:15):
days short to cancel myDescript yearly membership that
I accidentally signed up for.
It's been over a year now andsince I was too late, it signed
me up for a whole another yearso I couldn't cancel it, um, and
it kind of forced me to.
Um, well, I mean, it didn'tforce me to get back on.
(03:36):
I was trying to think ofdifferent directions to go but,
you know, ultimately just cameback to like, I guess we'll just
try to resurrect this thing.
Jon (03:47):
And I guess when it had renewed is that when you told me
you'd canceled it or you werecanceling it, you already knew
it got renewed.
Matt (03:59):
I tried to cancel it.
Then I renewed it.
Then I'm like I'll tell Johnthat I canceled it, see how much
he cares and let me see if I Iwish I could get this text
message up.
Let me see if I can find thishere.
So the text message that I sentwas by the way, I've been
meaning to tell you I'vecanceled the script going to
sunset the pod, and yourresponse was I figured that and
(04:27):
that was the only thing that hesaid.
So it doesn't sound like youwere putting a lot of effort in
that.
You were real bummed out aboutit.
Jon (04:38):
I told my fiance, I told Lauren G about it and she was
bummed for me.
Matt (04:46):
So there's that.
Why didn't you talk yourfeelings to me?
Why do you have to be soguarded If we're going to
co-host this thing?
Jon (04:57):
new secrets, no secrets.
New secrets or no secrets, nosecrets.
We can make new secrets if youwant, although we can't tell all
of our new secrets that we gotfrom last weekend, which it was
wild for one fans just a littlebit.
Matt (05:18):
A couple updates from the last episode that we did, if you
remember, um I had yeah, alittle bit of housekeeping.
I had, um, I had made a bigannouncement on that last
podcast about my diagnosis ofdandruff and I just want, I just
want to give everyone an updateand um, it's gone, it worked I
(05:43):
think it worked.
Jon (05:44):
The 50 shampoo worked, yep 15.
Matt (05:49):
So, fans, if you ever, if you ever have a problem with um
dandruff, you know, head over tosuper cuts and, uh, buy the
most expensive shampoo they haveand it'll go away in a couple
days now.
Jon (06:03):
I've also heard that dandruff is also a seasonal
issue at times.
Could it be that your scalp isjust a little more nutrient?
It's dry weather in winter.
I think this dandruff is morepresent in winter months.
I'm not saying you just didn'tstraight up have it and you
didn't need this tea tree oilshampoo, but I've heard that it
(06:26):
comes in waves in the winter.
Okay, but I I don't not to beoutdone.
I think I myself was dealingwith a little dandruff issue and
I'm currently medicating withtea tree oil.
I haven't seen any immediateresult, but I think it's getting
better.
Stay tuned in a month when weget back to another episode and
(06:50):
we'll tell you.
Matt (06:51):
Yeah, let us know you got to.
Let us know.
Yeah, what else?
So we do have very, very old.
I guess you call it cleaningout the drunk drawers.
That's what they call it in thebusiness of old business.
Two episodes ago, I think, tostart off the OJ episode, we
(07:17):
were talking about John gettinga suit, going suit shopping and
everything, and we got a littlebit of a feedback about that
conversation from our friend ofthe show, dick Pepperfield.
It says hey, boys Thought I'dhelp John out with his underwear
(07:39):
problem.
I'm a big fan of MeUndies.
They are soft, breathable andget the job done.
If you're looking for moreseparation for your twig and
berries, you can check outSheath.
I haven't tried them, butpeople say they keep your meat
cool.
They also do podcastsponsorship, so maybe you can
get two birds stoned at once andget some free samples.
(08:01):
Now, I could be wrong, but Ithink John was alluding to
feeling sexy on his wedding day.
You could look into an Italianstyle over at Manier Manier.
Manier 100% Italian hard bodies, and they even offer jock
straps for max breathability.
Forza Italia Solid episode asusual.
(08:21):
Long live Kato.
Stay classy Dick Pepperfield.
An episode as usual.
Long live kato.
Stay classy dick pepperfield.
So this episode has is beingbrought to you by me, undies
sheath, and manier.
Jon (08:33):
Free shipping of above 100 euros for underwear 100 euros
dick pepperfield was not joking.
The camera is literally.
All these dudes wearing this isfor manny air.
This is manny air.
Matt (08:47):
I'm on their website right now I, I don't want to sell uh
dick pepperfield up the river,down the river, whatever,
however that phrase goes tofollow the uh um the theme of
this podcast.
Jon (09:01):
But, um, I think that it is a german company, not italian
it says made in italy, and theyare oh is very scandously
dressed, I must say yeah thereare some hot bods on that
website I looked it up thesewaistbands.
They got the tri-colors ofitaly on the waistbands I mean
(09:22):
mean this?
I don't know, I'm under attack.
Matt (09:26):
Is it Italian?
Jon (09:27):
It says Made in Italy on their website.
Matt (09:29):
Oh, maybe I was looking at something else.
How expensive.
Jon (09:33):
Manier Devoir, handmade in Italy.
That would be an interestinglook.
This guy is currently doingsquats Reverse shoulder, looking
over his shoulder.
I scroll down and it's just hischeeks, it's just.
I guess he's wearing ajockstrap I don't know his butt
cheeks are just hanging out wait, where is this?
Matt (09:53):
what website are you on?
Jon (09:55):
I don't think you're on the right, I don't know, oh wait,
pepperfield found this one, buthow?
Matt (10:05):
did you, Manier Dubois?
Is that where you're at?
Oh yeah, Dick Pepperfield, youmight want to check your
internet history just in caseyou know.
Dark room on Veryscandalousalous very risque
(10:29):
option he's not in a squatposition, john.
You may seem like he was likein the down squat.
Wow, man, you should get a pairof these.
Maybe I'll buy them for you,isn't that is?
That is that part of the bestman's um job responsibility?
Jon (10:52):
to get to get the men's lingerie for uh banana hammocks
they're called in certain partsof the world I think isn't there
smugglers and others?
Matt (11:03):
isn't there some kind of um tradition, not tradition, I
guess I wouldn't say, but thatwomen, that women like, will get
like, uh, lingerie, like alingerie photo shoot for their
husband before their wedding?
(11:24):
not a tradition I've come across, nor one I think will be
continuing, unfortunately bridalboudoir photography is a
pre-wedding photo shoot focusingon sensual, intimate and often
erotic imagery, often done as agift for the groom.
The shoots typically take placea few weeks or months before
the wedding and involve aphotographer capturing the bride
(11:46):
in a variety of lingerie orother suggestive outfits.
The goal is to celebrate thebride's body sexuality and to
create a memorable intimate giftfor the groom.
So we could do the opposite ofthat and we'll have you do these
poses in your Manier Devoirdarkroom collection, and maybe
(12:09):
that will be my gift to Lauren Gfor the wedding.
Jon (12:15):
It might have to pay for.
Maybe we can get somesponsorship, maybe we'll do a
two-for-one or, like DickPepperfield was saying, I'll
model them.
It could be a gift for Lauren G, but also.
Matt (12:26):
They could use it for the website.
Jon (12:27):
They can use it for the website Brought to you by
Nailing History, or NailingHistory brought to you by
Nailing History.
Matt (12:32):
You would have to be like Maybe it would be like you'd be
dressed up like Lafayette or no,he was French.
Or I could just use my FaceSwapapp and use these photos from
here and put you on all of theseand put them in a calendar and
give them to Lauren G for yourwedding.
Jon (12:50):
Now you're using the thing between no, but that's yeah you
would, but no, she's got it.
Matt (12:55):
It's got to be, it's got to celebrate your body, sex and
sexuality.
So it will do all those things.
Jon (13:05):
So maybe we'll do all those things.
Matt (13:08):
So maybe we'll set that up .
We should have done thatprobably last weekend, but I'll
set that up.
Jon (13:14):
Well, speaking of last, weekend.
Matt (13:17):
That is a tradition.
I don't know if, I don't knowhow often it's done, but I've
heard that from some people.
Like I've heard that from somepeople.
I've heard of women that I'vetalked to that had mentioned
they were going through thepictures with the bride to pick
the best ones for the gift.
Jon (13:38):
And then what do they do with it?
I guess that's my question.
So in 20 years time, if you'recaught red-handed looking at an
older picture of your wife andyour current?
Matt (13:47):
wife walks in, is she going to get all upset?
Jon (13:49):
She's like oh, you don't like me the way I am now.
How would you?
Matt (13:53):
feel if, 20 years down the road, lauren G was looking at
the old pictures of you in thedark room collection of Manier
Devoir?
How would that make you feel?
I guess would be the question.
Jon (14:11):
I think I would try to find ways to say I still look like
that.
I think I would delude myself.
I'd be like, yeah, I look justas good Currently.
Oh, 20 years.
I think I would be like yeah, Iwas a smoke show back then, but
I still think I'm pretty goodnow or maybe it's something to
show your kids when they getolder.
Matt (14:30):
I'm gonna aspire to.
I don't know you could do.
It could be like you could lookback and just be like, wow man,
those, those 10 push-ups a dayreally did a lot for me back
then.
Maybe.
Jon (14:43):
I should get back into it.
Matt (14:44):
So I guess time to get into it here.
John is getting married.
At basically the end of thismonth, first week of June,
john's getting married and wehad a I guess you could call it
a bachelor party.
Well, it was a bachelor bash 'strue.
(15:10):
That's true.
Um and uh, you know, we kind ofdid it um this podcast.
It was very, it was a verypersonalized experience, um,
because it wasn't thetraditional uh format of most
bat what you would think atypical bachelor party would be,
(15:31):
which would be, I guess, likethe hangover, like the hangover
shenanigans, lewd behavior.
Jon (15:42):
Yeah, I might say fun.
Maybe some people that are withus might say having fun kind of
a pre-requisite fun might havefor some people.
Matt (15:51):
Fun may have been a uh, a hole in the weekend, might have
been a a lack of fun for forsome of the people involved, but
we didn't care, but we did it.
So, hey, we obviously want toshare the aspects of the weekend
(16:13):
that we think our listenerswould be maybe interested in, or
at least follow the theme ofthis podcast.
Jon (16:24):
I think it's fair to say we had to resurrect the podcast,
at minimum for covering what wedid last weekend for this
Bachelor Bash.
There was too much history, wewould be remiss.
Too much history.
Matt (16:37):
We would be remiss to leave you guys out of the
conversation.
And, that being said, somethingthat I realized as it was too
late, we were on our way downthere.
And, I being said, somethingthat I realized as it was too
late, we were on our way downthere and I mentioned to john
that, um, we owed um dickpepperfield, our fan, um the
experience of coming along withus at a 50 discount.
(16:59):
I think that was.
That was the prize he won for.
I forget what, being the firstfan mail.
Jon (17:09):
He could have cashed in on that big time last weekend.
Oh wow, oh yeah.
Matt (17:14):
Yeah, it would have been, he would have gotten his money's
worth.
Jon (17:17):
Let's just say that.
Matt (17:18):
Well, I don't know if he would have gotten his money's
worth, but it would have beenmore of a grand prize, more than
just a prize.
I don't, I'm I'm lost there.
But apologize, dick Pepperfield, but I think you might've been
better off.
So, um, with no further ado, Iwant to say I want to open up
this, up with John and I did thehistoric triangle of Virginia,
(17:43):
so that you guys don't have toyes, I think, is the best way to
say that right.
Jon (17:49):
Yep Historical triangle of Virginia plus.
Matt (17:53):
Yeah, we did it.
All the kids are using thisdays.
Jon (17:55):
Yeah, Hulu plus all the streaming services plus.
So we tacked on a few bonusfeatures.
Matt (18:02):
Yeah, we made it.
We gave it the nailing historytwist.
It's like a two-hour episodeversion of the Historic Triangle
and we're probably going togive you a three-hour episode
summary of the Historic Triangleof Virginia Plus.
Jon (18:22):
I can guarantee you're still going to get your money's
worth from this episode than youwould from one of the money's
worth from this episode, thanyou would from one of the places
we went on this podcast.
I don't want to steal my ownthunder yeah, let's, let's keep
it in order here.
Matt (18:33):
So just a quick summary of the historic triangle um, it's
uh down in the um, I guess, thepeninsula area, the tidew
Virginia.
Jon (18:46):
I guess is what you would call it Tidewater Virginia.
Matt (18:50):
There's three main attractions there.
I guess you would call itthat's how they treat it, at
least.
You have Jamestown, which isthe first permanent settlement
in America by Europeans, by theEnglish, sure by the English.
Then you got ColonialWilliamsburg, which is John D
(19:15):
Rockefeller Jr's little petproject, as we came to learn.
Jon (19:22):
And the former capital of the Virginiaia colony before his
pet project.
Matt (19:26):
But yes, and then the uh yorktown national battlefield,
which is the site of the, notonly the final scene, the final
battle of the america, the finalmajor battle of the American
Revolution, but also the site ofthe final scene of the film
(19:48):
Revolution starring Al Pacino,which we've reviewed on this
podcast.
Going to Yorktown was reallyconsidered to be a pilgrimage of
the podcast because of thesignificance it had to that
great film.
Jon (20:04):
And just, I think, closing out, we did so many other site
tours of other revolutionary warplaces like saratoga, and we
obviously have been to valleyforge and I think, yeah, we had
a.
Matt (20:16):
Really we had to put a bow on it yeah, kind of putting a
bow on that whole, that wholearea.
I know, in the beginning ofthis podcast I was told that we
were stuck in the 18th centuryfor too long by Brian K Shout
out to him, so if he's listening, I don't know he's still
listening.
We may have lost him a littlebit there, but he's still alive.
We didn't lose him like that,Just lost him as a listener and
(20:40):
so yeah, so it was kind of likeputting a real.
So yeah, so it was kind of likeputting a real Felt like it
really put a bow on the 18thcentury revolutionary period of
America.
Jon (20:51):
For me, and just to say we'll tell our fans, we'll just
get this out of the way, If anyof our fans do go to Yorktown
any of our fans that have alsoseen Revolution just know it's
different.
That's all I'll say.
Matt (21:07):
Yeah, we'll get to it.
So we actually the plus aspectof the historic triangle we took
care of in the first day, so wecan take care of that and then
we can just get right into the.
We added a little bit at theend, but that was small.
So the first thing we did wassomething that John tacked on to
the itinerary pretty late inthe process of preparing the
(21:31):
bachelor party.
I was the best man, so I was incharge of planning it.
I did an okay job.
I did a John.
I figured John deserved to getthe same effort put into his
bachelor party that he puts intothe podcast.
So that's basically what I did.
It's only fair.
Jon (21:52):
So I think our listeners can see the level of preparation
that went into that but anyway,john started an email chain and
that was big, yes, and that'swhere business gets done, as we
all know.
Matt (22:05):
So and um.
So, john, if you want to getstarted on why you wanted to go
to this place, what made youinterested in it, and you know
we'll just do a quick recap ofthis one yeah.
Jon (22:16):
So, as matt alluded to, we added this stop on pretty soon,
pretty uh late in this in thegame, uh, I think like maybe a
lot even a week before uh.
But reason why, uh, we decidedto add this on is because
there's going to be a low time.
We were four of us down therefor the whole weekend, but three
(22:39):
of us were driving and wecouldn't check into our Airbnb
until 4 pm on a Friday.
Matt (22:46):
We would have just had too much time on our hands.
I don't think the fans need toknow all this stuff.
So we were driving.
To get to get to what?
Jon (22:55):
to get to the historic triangle of virginia, you end up
basically having to drivethrough richmond virginia, which
is the current capital ofvirginia it's the current
capital, virginia, and it wasthe capital of the confederate
states of america during thecivil war and to this they still
have what is known as the WhiteHouse of the Confederacy.
(23:19):
It's still standing.
It is on the campus of VirginiaCommonwealth University and
they give tours and I I told mysister, I told Emily M about
that.
Matt (23:34):
We went here and she was shocked that it still existed.
Really, yeah, which I could see.
That.
I wasn't shocked, but she wascurious who kept it open?
And I think you know I might bejumping ahead here, but it's
not run by the federalgovernment, correct?
I think it's privately owned bythe Museum of the Civil War
(23:55):
which is down there.
Right, and I think, well, itwas getting decrepit, which
seems to be better, which seemsto be a well better run
establishment than the Museum ofthe American Revolution in
Philadelphia.
But I digress.
Jon (24:08):
Mm-hmm, I think it was after the war.
Well, it was in private handsbefore the war.
It well, it was in privatehands before the war.
And then it was like leased tothe confederacy and so it wasn't
destroyed.
So, um, they said it was thewhite house of the confederacy.
So it was jefferson davis'shome uh, he's the president of
the confederate states duringthe civil war.
It's his family's home duringthose four years.
(24:29):
And he left, I think they saidapril 2nd.
He was basically given word hey, you got to run, you got to
ditch this place because theUnion troops are at the door.
And they said two days later,lincoln was standing in the
living room.
So the Union forces took overthe city of Richmond in April of
1865.
By that point, basically, thewar was effectively over, so
(24:52):
they didn't have to burn thething down.
Matt (24:55):
I think they used it as a headquarters for reconstruction.
Jon (24:58):
I think is what she said the use of a reconstruction and
then eventually it kind of Ithink eventually fell into
disrepute.
But then the confederatedaughters of america got hold of
it and pumped some money intoit and I was really surprised at
how well put together it was.
But my interest in going herestems from having read the civil
war books by the author shelbyfoot, who shout out to shane
(25:20):
gillis was name dropping on snla couple months back for any of
our fans who caught in a jokingmatter, I believe, but no well
as they say no such thing as, nosuch thing as bad publicity, as
they say.
Matt (25:32):
How did he put it?
What was the context of how hetalked about it?
Jon (25:36):
he was just acting like how shelby foot was in the civil
war documentary by ken burns andhe was just.
I don't know why he was talkingabout him, but I thought it was
pretty sweet I mean you can'tbe talking negatively as
somebody who nobody knows about.
Even if you're gonna just downlike talk poorly about somebody
(25:57):
that no one knows about, I don'tthink that lands.
I think he has to have somelevel of respect.
Matt (26:01):
But anyway, so, needless to say, we were coming down here
.
John is really excited aboutthis.
I'm saying I can't believe weactually signed up for this tour
.
We're going to be put on a listsomewhere.
I was expecting protesters atthe entrance.
John's real excited.
They tell us to get there 15minutes early and we're running
(26:24):
right on time.
But man, we get down toRichmond In classic John fashion
.
It's me and John, and then oneof the attendees of the bachelor
party, mr r.
We'll call him mr r.
He was in another car because,long story short, so it's me and
john, john being the worstnavigator navigate, navigator of
(26:48):
all time we get into richmondnew city never driven there
before.
I don't really know where I'mgoing.
We're using.
Waze.
I did no preparation for thisspecifically.
This was John's job and I wasgetting very similar Harper's
Ferry vibe Looking for parking.
Couldn't find it.
John, I'm driving through a newcity.
You'd think both people wouldbe interested in getting to the
(27:11):
right place.
John's on his phone like oh, wegot to go here, be interested
in getting to the right place.
John's on his phone like oh, wegot to go here, we, we got to
look it up.
Stuff about the, the museum,making weird comments about the
civil war, and uh, I missed theparking lot and we ended up
having to park in a parkinggarage, which was okay, but it
was just a classic.
John's very excited.
He's very worried about beingone minute late to being 15
(27:32):
minutes early.
Jon (27:36):
I'd be punctual.
I guess it's my British side.
I guess I got a little Britishin me, like being punctual to
things.
So we got there.
It was a ghost town, Richmond.
Don't know what people do therefor a living, but maybe they
must just run tours of the whitehouse of the confederacy.
Matt (27:55):
So we park well, your response was it is a friday,
which I said.
Jon (27:59):
Friday is still a work day, but whatever so yeah, so we get
we, we, we park, we get to thewhite house.
We have to go into like a youknow a visitor center thing
where there's a check-in andit's like one of your typical
like gift, like civil war giftshops.
They got stuff you know, bookson the union, pictures of link,
(28:20):
statues of lincoln, statues ofrobert e lee, can buy hats, can
buy this or that.
And what were we?
we were the youngest in thisgroup, there's probably about by
about 40 years by about 40years, I think there was what 10
of us total in the group and,uh, we had this young person um
by the name of.
Can we put on blast here?
(28:42):
Can we use her name?
Matt (28:45):
I don't know if we know her name.
Mr r thinks he knows her name,but I don't know.
Jon (28:49):
If that was her name, well, we'll call her nadia, for the
sake of the sake of moving italong here, and um, yeah, so she
was probably like 26, whichalone already I was just like I
can't believe.
Matt (29:05):
This is your job kind of like she just rolled out of bed.
I hope she doesn't listen tothe podcast, but that was my
first thought.
It's like she just woke up.
Jon (29:14):
She was no, she was all business.
Let's just put it that way shewas 100% business, all business
for not wanting to be doingbusiness, if that makes sense.
She was all business for nobusiness.
Matt (29:28):
So, like I said, this is part of the Civil War Museum and
I get the feeling that you getassigned to do this tour like on
, like similar to the the todo's kashusko museum.
Like you know, you got you, yougot the confederate white house
tomorrow and she's like, oh,she couldn't just sleep on it.
Jon (29:49):
She, you know, had a race through her alarm clock.
Got up out of of bed, met us at10 am sharp, yeah, and John is
just giddy.
Matt (30:01):
He's so excited.
Jon (30:02):
He's got.
Matt (30:03):
Shelby foot on the mind.
That's all he's thinking about.
Shane Gillis shouted him out.
John's giddy.
Jon (30:08):
Butterflies.
I was really looking forward toit.
I'm happy it was so kind ofimpromptu.
But Nadiaia, she was just shewas no, she meant all business.
And so you know, we weregetting a real quick.
We're sitting in this roomwhich is, you know, looking out
the glass, and you're facing theback of the of the house, and
so she's kind of giving aone-two like kind of the the
(30:30):
once over of what the house was,and she was just, yeah, kind of
telling it straight up and downthe line.
And so we walk into the foyerand you know it wasn't some like
confederate kind of likesympathizer group.
It was just part of the civilwar.
Who, but you, pointed out atree in the yard that was a gift
from the marquis de lafayettewhen he visited and made his
(30:55):
country tour in 1824.
And that was still there, stillgrowing.
And then, yeah, we eventuallymade our way into the house and
it was all me being ridiculousfrom there.
Matt (31:12):
I was so excited, john was so excited.
We get into the room and she'sjust, uh, the the beginning,
just talking about frederickdouglas and his um, you know his
backstory or whatever, and youknow right away, you know a
woman says um, I think she, Ithink the tour guide had
(31:35):
mentioned that he was frommissouri.
I believe um mississippimississippi, sorry, I guess.
Um and uh, a woman in theaudience says, um, oh, was he
born in mississippi?
And the tour guide said, well,no, but no, but he, he, he grew
up there.
So he, um, he always consideredhimself a Mississippian, I
(31:59):
guess.
And that's when John just budsin out of nowhere and says he
was actually from Kentucky.
Oh, he was from Kentucky.
Just, you know, no one asked,no one asked, everyone was
whatever.
And then you could really tell.
The tour guide was just likewell, we got another one.
Jon (32:16):
No, that's tbd and that's where mr r and you are not on
the same page.
And either she gave me a,either a death stare or a.
I found, I found man of mydreams.
I mean, I could, we?
And we still don't know.
I know, I know I'm probablymore agreeing with you, but the
fact that Mr R at least thinksthat well, mr R doesn't good
(32:40):
friend someone looking at Idon't know.
Matt (32:43):
I just feel like you have to be honest with your friends.
And she was definitely like, ohmy god, we got another one.
Because her response was like,oh yeah, he was.
Jon (32:51):
Yes, he was from kentucky, very good and then, from then on
, I tried yeah, very good, no,you were not biting your tongue.
Matt (33:01):
So then I go, I like elbow pictures.
I elbowed john and I said, uh,will you calm down?
He's like I'm excited, I'mexcited.
So I'm like, oh, brother, sothen go into another room and
she's talking a little bit more.
And then she starts talkingabout the Peninsula campaign.
(33:22):
Now John's already opened hisbig mouth and acting like he
knows more than the tour guidewanting to over talk her.
So she's talking about thePeninsula campaign.
She says, oh, yes, this was theroom where they had met.
We were in a room that they hadbattle papers out like maps and
stuff.
And she's like, oh, this is aroom and this is a similar
situation to where he would meetwith the Secretary of War and
his generals or whatever, anddiscuss the war.
(33:43):
And this is where they discussthe Peninsula Campaign.
And she says is anyone familiarwith the Peninsula Campaign?
And of course she looks at John, because he already made a
smart remark.
And John says, oh, yes, I knowa lot.
Oh, yes, I know, I read thebook about.
I read Shelby Foote's book.
I know a lot about thePeninsula campaign.
(34:04):
She said, oh, okay, go ahead,why don't you tell us what it is
.
And John froze.
His response was exact.
This is word for word what Johnfroze.
His response was exact.
This is word for word what Johnsaid.
Oh yeah, the Peninsula campaign.
It was where there was apeninsula and there was a
(34:25):
campaign in the Civil War andthe Confederates really wanted
to win it and ultimately, youknow, there was a campaign and
it was on the peninsula.
Jon (34:40):
In 1862.
Matt (34:42):
She said very good, and then went on to explain it way
better than everybody, than Johndid, like completely, john said
nothing and she responded and Ijust said man, she just bodied
you, dude, it was a hard box outand that was it.
(35:02):
And that, I think, was the lasttime john said anything and
that was the last time youinterrupted and tried to act
smarter than her.
I think that's where yourealize like, okay, this girl
knows what's going on.
I don't know more than her, I'mgonna.
Jon (35:16):
I'm gonna just listen to her well, I did ask her if about
jefferson's davis time assecretary of war under franklin
pierce got her kind of stumblingthere.
She didn't really have much ofan answer, but that's okay.
Um, for some of our fans,jefferson davis while some of
you may consider him a traitor,it's your prerogative he was
secretary of war, uh, underfranklin pierce.
(35:39):
And I was curious to knowbecause I'd read in a different
book not the one by shelby footthat he was responsible.
Before the civil war there was alot of western indian control
and a lot of trying to kind ofkeep, you know, the western
tribes in check, like thecomanche and you know, try to
kind of keep them under wraps.
And he who has a Secretary ofWar, was responsible for kind of
(36:00):
reinvigorating the Army andputting in these new processes
and all this and that and betterequipment and this and that.
And I asked her I said do youknow much about the idea of
Jefferson Davis kind ofoutfitting the Army that would
eventually destroy him?
And she said I don't know toomuch about that and I said okay,
and then well, I think thepoint that I'm making is you
(36:21):
knew the answer.
Matt (36:22):
You read it in a book.
So you were just you classicmove trying to.
You were trying to teach hersomething by putting it as a
question.
You didn't't care about theanswer.
What was she going to say?
Jon (36:36):
I was trying to influence other people in the room to
think well, maybe he wasn't thatbad of a guy.
Matt (36:40):
You were trying to do her job for her.
Jon (36:42):
They were already in the house, so maybe they already
were like well, at least, oh,this looks nice Jefferson.
Davis oh yeah, traitor,confederate guy.
But I was trying to say to geta conversation between her and I
so that for your benefit, mrr's benefit and everyone else in
the tour could be like oh, thisguy doesn't sound as you were
(37:02):
trying to do her job for her.
Matt (37:03):
That's what tour guys don't want you to do so long
story short.
So then we went through acouple other things.
It was cool somebody busted thebanister of, like the grand
staircase in this house likebefore us, which so we had to go
up the servants they call themthe servant staircases.
We went up there and so,luckily, you know, my thought
(37:25):
was wow, thank God somebodybroke that before us, because if
it was about to break, it wouldhave been one of us and we
would have been in real troublereal but anyway.
So we go, we go through thishouse.
It's just like you know.
There wasn't much to.
It was a nice house.
There's a very succinct,well-organized tour.
When john finally stoppedtrying to steer it in his own
direction, when he let the tourguide actually do the tour
(37:48):
herself the way that she wantedto do it and at the very end he
didn't he pulled it again onelast time.
He said hey, do you knowanything about the bread riots
1863?
She was like no, I don't.
I, you know, I know theyhappened.
Jon (38:05):
I asked him.
No, I asked him where, wheredid he stand out?
It was like a balcony that hestood from during the bread
riots.
Because in the books, basicallythe women of richmond and
across other states in the southduring 1863 were beginning to
riot for because of food prices,inflation and fighting a war,
so bread was too expensive andthey began stealing and this and
(38:27):
that.
And, yeah, they showed up tothe white house demanding, you
know, bread and he basicallycame out of a window and emptied
his pockets and said, here,take, take all that I have, and
he just kind of threw change tothem.
Matt (38:40):
Uh, it's like the miss the lady in happy gilmore here.
Take this and get out of here,leave me alone.
He's like what do you want fromme?
I'm just, I'm running.
I'm in the war too.
I'm leading it.
Jon (38:52):
I don't got time for this yeah, the problem was, but I
just remember reading the bookthat stuck with me, that part of
the book stuck with me, so Iwas curious about it and she
didn't know anything about it.
Matt (39:00):
It's fine.
My takeaway from it and thiskind of leads to it is, I feel
like the Confederates, really,the house was nice, it was a
nice house.
Big two thoughts were they wenttoo nice, too quick.
(39:23):
You know they were still tryingconsidering themselves a you
know burgeoning company orcountry.
You know when, what country?
Right, yeah, when, um, when theunited states went into war
with england, they didn't builda white house.
Right, while george washingtonwas living in a tent.
They didn't even have apresident at the time.
Um, so I feel like they went alittle too quick with their
money on that one and it didn'thave a good optics for maybe the
(39:44):
women.
So I kind of get where theywere coming from, um, and also I
think maybe they should havedone had a different color.
You know why have a white house?
You know, oh, this, this iswhat we're trying to get away
from.
Why are we doing the same thingthat they're doing anyway?
Yeah, I think historically.
Jon (40:01):
I definitely think I agree with that 100.
I think when people look backat the confederacy that they see
, oh, there was 11 states thatmade a another federal structure
.
I think it's easier for peopleto say, oh yeah, well, they were
just.
They were just traders, theywanted to compete with the
United States.
I agree with you.
I think they should have cameout a little more humble maybe
in just what they were kind ofgoing for and this is an aside
(40:23):
from the tour.
But I still say that if thestate seceded and remained
independent and didn't formanother federal structure with a
federal constant, with a, witha federal constitution and, you
know, represent like a congressand all that, if they just
stayed as individual states, Ithink maybe history might give
them a little more validity.
Matt (40:45):
But you're right, I think because they came out with the
white house, they got all thebells and whistles, all that
stuff yeah, so let's, let'schange the subject, but in
summary of this whole trip, johnended up feeling obligated to
actually apologize to the tourguide for being chooch Big time.
(41:06):
That's pretty much how it went.
Jon (41:09):
And for some reason I don't know why she made a point of
saying she really wanted tohammer home.
Maybe she was related toJefferson Davis.
Thinking about thinking aboutthis right now actually she
probably would have said thatwell, she was all business, as
we know.
All business, no business, Ithink.
So she made a point in the lastroom of the house at the end of
(41:31):
the tour.
Um, well, actually earlier inthe tour she'd said that jimmy
carter posthumously awarded himus citizenship.
So when he died he was well.
He was captured, uh, he wastried for treason, but they
didn't actually, um, uh, convicthim.
(41:52):
And she made the point ofsaying part of the reason he
wasn't convicted, along withother, you know, higher-ups like
robert e lee and other.
These individuals they say thatbecause if they were basically
convict them of treason, itwould basically be, uh,
indicative of of them sayingthat secession was legal anyway.
So he didn't get, so he diedwithout citizenship, us
(42:12):
citizenship.
He was not reinstated untilJimmy Carter in the 70s and we
all know how Jimmy Carter likeshis pardons and he posthumously
awarded Jefferson Davis UScitizenship.
So she said that we have toremember that he might not
(42:36):
wanted his US citizenshipreinstated.
So just remember that next timeyou talk about Jefferson Davis.
And she made that point.
It was a mic drop, john neededto change his manière de voir
(42:56):
after that statement I didn'tthink other people under the age
of 50 could think like thatbeyond me.
Not to toot my own butt, I waslike whoa, is that a
20-something saying You're such?
Matt (43:10):
an intellectual John.
Is that what you want to hear?
Jon (43:13):
No, I'm just saying she made a good point that makes you
quite.
I don't know why she said it.
I feel like I don't think otherthan no one really in the tour
was asking much about it.
But she's like yeah, just oh,and remember like who said he
really wanted his us citizenshipback?
Yeah, she just threw the hammerdown, that was that so that's
(43:35):
the white house and confederacy.
Matt (43:37):
And we went out we saw there's a cool statue of george
washington on a horse and hasall the other like statesmen
from virginia at the time, youknow, around there.
It's pretty cool statue.
Um, that's near the I guess isthat the capitol building yeah
capitol building was cool.
Jon (43:53):
Executive man.
Current executive mansion ofVirginia.
Matt (43:56):
Yeah, that was cool.
So you know, there was a little, there was some.
There was probably a lot moreto see in Richmond, but you know
we had a, an appointment at avery important landmark in
John's life and kind of a bit ofa little bit of nailing history
folklore.
We went to Sherwood Forest,which was about a 20-minute
(44:20):
drive, 20, 25-minute drive outof Richmond to Sherwood Forest,
which is President John Tyler'spresidency.
Now, you may know John Tyler's,one of john's favorite
presidents.
Uh, we talked about hisinauguration a while back where
(44:41):
he had a bunch of you know, uh,you know some, some interesting
aspects of his presidency, someaccidents he was named the
accident, whatever.
Um, so, john, I actually, ifpeople don't remember, and john,
I was thinking about this, Iwas a little bummed you didn't
bring it along with you, eventhough maybe you should have.
I did that when I got back hereI did purchase john a silver
(45:04):
coin commemorating john tyler'spresidency.
Um, I think that would havebeen pretty cool thing to show
to um, our tour guide, butthat's beyond the point.
So Sherwood Forest if you wantto go there, it's $35.
So the White House I'm justgoing to be all out just to let
everyone know about the money.
White House of the Confederacywas $15 per person for the tour.
(45:26):
Sherwood Forest is $35 perperson to tour the house.
You can tour the grounds for$10 per person, I think, not per
car, I think it's per person.
It's an honor system there fortouring the ground, so I assume
most people don't pay.
But the house tour is $35 aperson.
If you want to do it you haveto call the Sherwood Forest
(45:47):
Foundation.
When you get the number off oftheir website that was made in
2002.
And it looks like the websiteof the hamster dance people.
You know, like the remember thehamster dance website back in
like the 90s where the hamstersare doing like.
It just reminded me that it'shtml.
Jon (46:09):
It's so old school.
Matt (46:11):
I think the only thing that they have updated from this
website was the cost of thetour.
And I called in and this isgoing back a little bit.
I called in and the lady Justto give a little backstory.
The lady answered.
I said hey, I have a, I wantedto schedule a tour.
She's like Okay, how many is itgoing to be?
And at the time we were maybegoing to have 6 people with us
(46:31):
on the bachelor party, so I saidsix.
She's like wow.
I said yeah, yeah.
And she's like, okay, she'svery excited.
And then I said just.
And she's like okay, you're allset, whatever, I set up the
time.
And she said okay.
And I said just, so you know,I'm bringing John Tyler's
biggest number one fan down here, so be prepared.
And she said, aw, how old is he, insinuating that this was an
(46:55):
8-year-old, 9-year-old?
And I said, oh, 37.
She's like, oh, okay, it wasreally funny.
And I explained to her that wewere going down there for a
bachelor party and she lovedthat and apparently word spread
because our tour guide also knew.
I didn't talk to the tour guideon the phone.
Our tour guide knew that it wasa bachelor party, so I'm sure
(47:16):
they had, uh, high expectationsfor us coming in.
I never let them know that wewere going from six to four, but
or we actually went six tothree, um, but I never said
anything, so, um, you knowwhatever um, and I think he knew
that, because we were supposedto give them a call a half an
hour before we arrived on theground.
Yeah, so the directions that wegot.
(47:37):
So this is how it started.
So we had left the Richmond andwe're heading there.
We grabbed a quick bite to eatnear Sherwood Forest and I call
the guy, get his cell phonenumber and he answers like hello
.
I'm like hey, is this Tim?
He's like yeah.
I'm like hey, um, is this tim?
(48:00):
He's like yeah, um.
I'm like uh, oh, hey, uh, thisis matt, I have a two o'clock
appointment for a tour.
And he's like um, yeah, likeyeah, um, we're uh, just letting
you know we're uh, I was toldto call you half an hour
beforehand and he's like you'renot here yet, and this is like a
half an hour before.
I'm like no, I was told to callyou a half an hour beforehand.
And he's like you're not hereyet, and this is like a half an
hour before.
I'm like no, I was told to callyou a half an hour before we'll
be there, to just call you, letyou know.
So therefore, he's like allright, and I'm like.
(48:22):
He's like how many are there?
I'm like three.
He's like okay, and hangs upand I I hung up and I'm like oh
boy, like kind of killed themood, ruined the lunch, um,
because we were kind of in thatthen.
Jon (48:33):
Then I felt like I was in a rush.
Matt (48:35):
Then I was like, oh, there's no way we can be late.
The directions we got gave us a15-minute leeway.
But after talking to Tim on thephone I'm like, yeah, this
isn't a.
Jon (48:46):
We gotta go, yeah, we gotta go.
Matt (48:48):
So we rushed through lunch .
I was doing a little bit of ofwork and I got rushed and
flustered and messed that up,but whatever.
So we show up to SherwoodForest and we walk up to the
porch and boy oh boy do we seethe most stereotypical historic
(49:13):
amateur, most stereotypicalamateur history enthusiast that
you can possibly have what'sthat?
Jon (49:20):
docent, amateur dose what's that mean?
Matt (49:23):
what's that it's?
Jon (49:24):
like the.
It's like a tour guideglorified name for a tour guide
oh really, I've never heard thatword are you sure is that the
could be this guy's got baggykhakis on.
Matt (49:39):
We see him from the back, baggy khakis, on a blue blazer,
a hat and a glorious whiteponytail coming out the bottom
of this hat matching, matchingcheeto dust on the once we got a
closer look, he's got cheetodust all over could have been
pollen, but I I think we bothagreed that it was cheeto dust
(50:01):
and like hair and he just lookedlike the blazer was too big,
the pants were too long, thishat he had a pin on to make
himself look official but likefrom all that I could gather
from talking to this guy, hejust like mows their lawn and
just like kind of worked his wayinto the family to like do this
tour, um, and so yeah, greatguy if he's listening love you.
Jon (50:25):
Tim did a fantastic job, which we're gonna explain here
in a minute.
Yeah, so part of it.
So we find out.
I think we came to realize hewas a little little testy on the
phone because, believe it ornot, we weren't the only people
on this tour which might havebeen a shock to everyone
involved.
I think the other people justshowed up and they maybe did a
(50:45):
cost-benefit analysis and saidoh, like former president, I
didn't know that.
We were just driving, we weretrying to get to Williamsburg,
we were trying to drive down thepeninsula or whatever.
Oh, former president, johnTyler's house, let's stop in and
see what we find.
And they did a little costbenefit.
Do we pay $10 or $35?
Although, no, you had to callahead, so all those people had
planned to be there.
Matt (51:06):
I'm thinking maybe, but I'm thinking he was there and
there were people walking aroundand I think he just there's no
way.
Those people called ahead oftime.
I didn't ask him.
But my thought is he just goesaround and like, if there's
people walking the tour, maybehe offered them like hey, I'm
doing a, I'm doing a tour of thehouse in 35 minutes, like maybe
.
But then again, um, two peopledid walk up while we were in
(51:31):
this tour and he just did try toget, he did try to sell that,
but then he the way that, theway that he picked the way that
he pitched.
It was like, yeah, you could dothis a way higher price point
and it was cash, only they couldpay that.
Jon (51:47):
You could pay the ten dollars fee through an app.
It was like a scan the barcode.
You could pay with a creditcard, but the the the tour of
the house was cash or check, soyou literally go in the house.
Matt (51:58):
It's a 19th century home.
Jon (52:00):
You literally go back into the 19th century when you walk
in the home in terms of payingfor it he said, yeah, it's a
higher price point and it'lltake like two to three hours and
these people were like oh yeah,no, we're good, and you could
tell because we were walking, wecouldn't pitch it worse, he
definitely did not.
Matt (52:15):
People were like oh yeah, no, we're good.
They walked away and you couldtell, because we were walking,
you couldn't pitch it worse.
Jon (52:19):
He definitely did not want them to come along, we walked up
at that point to the classiclike oh, what do you do for work
?
We walked up and he's askingeveryone else on the tour, what
do you do for work?
And this one guy's like oh, Iworked in export, or what did he
say?
Matt (52:34):
I don in export, or what did he say?
I don't know.
Jon (52:35):
Global trade Like real, like kind of cocky, and we got
more on him later.
But he yeah, but you know so wehad a preschool teacher.
He had a preschool teacher andI always appreciate that, seeing
what she was going to bring tothe table after our friend at
the Kachuska Museum, I don'tknow if she biffed it.
Matt (52:56):
Never asked us what we do for a living Never asked us.
Until the end.
He asked Mr R, but he neverasked.
I'm guessing he probablyfigured we didn't have jobs.
We're here on a Friday, not inRichmond.
We're here on a Friday wearingSheetz sunglasses, some Sheetz
knockoff pit vipers that Ipurchased for everyone.
Um, not looking the best, notlooking the part.
(53:20):
And um, so yeah, so we getthere and um, he starts the tour
.
He said it was going to takelike two to three hours.
I'm like, ah, there's no way.
There's no way.
So he gets, he gets started.
He's taught we're in the, we'reso.
The house is, I think it's likethe longest plantation, like in
the in the country.
Like it's long, it's like longand narrow.
It's like if you took like anormal sized house and stretched
(53:43):
it, um is basically what it is.
And we were standing in themiddle and he goes yeah, the
house is 300 feet long.
He's like that's the samelength as a football field.
So we're standing in the middleof it.
So anyone here who's interestedin football?
From here to the end of thehouse, that's how long a 50-yard
field goal is.
Jon (54:03):
Got a lot of head nods out of that one, a lot of, hmm,
interesting A little bottom lipout A little head nod.
Matt (54:09):
I was like what?
I was just like I'm what I look.
I'm like okay, I sure I yeah,so I think that's exactly.
You know, that is exactly whywe came to tour sherwood forest
is because we're interested.
Jon (54:27):
But I think you specifically said that, because
the tour began off of thebalcony.
So we're standing in front ofthe home, outside us the house,
looking at the house.
I think we were specificallystarting the tour there, so he
could tell us that informationbecause then, within five
minutes, he's like, oh, we'regonna move up to the balcony now
and they had like I'm lookingat the picture they had like
(54:47):
four or five like lawn chairs,like deck chairs out there, uh,
and a couple benches.
He's like, oh, we're gonna comeup and stay here for a while so
we're literally outside andthen he takes us to the front
porch there's flies, everywherethere's flies everywhere and
like we're gonna fly around hisface.
Matt (55:06):
They were eating the cheeto dust off of his jacket.
They kept hitting me in the leg.
I was so uncomfortable.
But when he said we.
Jon (55:12):
So we walk up the first porch.
He's like, oh, it's all right,we're to hang here for a little
bit.
Matt (55:15):
And we're thinking, okay, like cool, it's like he's just
going to give us a quick like 10minutes, maybe a five to 10
minutes.
Jon (55:22):
A little history of the house or something.
Matt (55:23):
Get into the home.
We'll get into the house infive minutes.
We're just sitting here, youknow, taking it in whatever he
so he offers everybody a seat,and me and John and Mr R we all
say like, oh no, we're good,Because everyone else was older,
there were seats for us.
But I'm like I'll just stand,whatever, we're not going to be
here long.
(55:44):
We can't be here that long.
Mr R has a bum knee and helasts about five minutes and
then he finally takes a seat,and then I'm still standing and
yeah, like takes a seat, andthen I'm still standing and yeah
, like john said, he proceeds tostart talking about everything
under the sun and like we'rethere for so long and then, like
, it gets to the point where Ican't take it.
I feel like I can't take a seatbecause I've been standing for
(56:05):
so long that now, like I've, theopportunity has lost, like you
were lost.
Jon (56:12):
Yeah, as soon as you sit down, he'll say, all right, well
, now we're going in.
It was one of those yeah,situations, but basically it was
, uh, we weren't getting so muchof the house he was.
That was kind of his thehistory of john tyler, but with
a very core focus on theelection because, as our fans
some, of our fans may know hewas the first president to
(56:33):
assume the office, uh, as a vicepresident.
So william henry harrison died.
He was only in there for amonth.
He told us all of that wecovered that.
Matt (56:42):
We covered this in the.
We could have just played theepisode where we went over the
like his inauguration the sostand history he just did a
whole bit on the lead up to that.
I mean he's talking about thecampaign slogans, how this was
(57:03):
the first modern election withusing media songs and all this
stuff and newspapers.
It's interesting stuff.
He said it was the he.
Also, I think he was incorrectin saying that this is something
we talked about on the podcast.
I think he said that it was thefirst um election where the
(57:23):
common man was able to votebecause they had switched it
from only landowners, but Ibelieve that was the election
before that with andrew jacksonI know jackson definitely was a
major proponent of moving thatin that way.
I think it was his, the secondthe re-election made.
I could be wrong, but I thoughtit was, but that was the
(57:43):
backdrop of it.
Jon (57:44):
That was the backdrop that more men could vote.
They basically did away withthe property ownership
requirement.
And he made a point of sayingthat.
Well, it's kind of a shamebecause there were some women in
parts of Virginia that ownedplantations and they did have
the right to vote.
I thought that was interesting.
At some point there were somewomen who could have voted with
the property requirement.
(58:05):
They owned property Technically.
They had property in terms ofland, not in terms of slaves or
whatever other property likelanded property.
And then he said basically,yeah, with that new rule, and
that's how those women lost theright to vote.
But yeah, that was the backdrop.
So, like with the election of1840.
Matt (58:25):
So we're standing on a porch getting like slapped with
flies.
I don't even know what theseflies are, they're like flies
I've never seen.
Like we're in swamps.
It's pretty like it wasactually interesting.
Like it's like swamp land downthere which you wouldn't really
expect.
And I'm like it's like he'stalking about all this stuff,
like he's going way off topic,um, like and then doing the on
(58:47):
your spot questions to thepeople.
And john, at one point likedimed me out, which he kind of I
did deserve it because I'vealways said you should be
talking about the podcast.
So he did say this guy's got apodcast, ask him to pointing to
me.
And I just completely, justshut down and I totally wussed
(59:08):
out and I was like I don't knowand I just cowered and he's like
get on the podcast.
And I I just didn't, I justreally wussed out there.
It was just a weird vibe.
It was a weird vibe.
He was asking questions.
You know he asked the questionof like um, what the sandwich
islands were, and you know hesaid like you have a podcast,
(59:29):
what's the answer to me?
And I'm like I don't know.
And I said the Florida keys.
He's like the Florida, what?
I was like I don't know theFlorida keys.
He's like no, I don't know.
Yeah and um yeah, so it wasreally.
Jon (59:44):
but he also made a point of saying like the house.
So he's a family friend and amajor point of the major point
of this house, it is the onlycontinuously lived in former
presidential home that is stilllived in by descendants of that
president.
So the home has been in theTyler family since John Tyler
lived in it and as of only acouple years ago, because now
(01:00:06):
his grandson basically is notliving in hospice but he has to
live like kind of in a nursinghome and he only comes back
regularly.
But John Tyler's great grandsonstill lives in the house,
william tyler, and he made apoint of saying that, uh, he's
basically a 63 year old mangoing on 18 62 62 no he's 63.
No, he's 63, you're right,you're right it's just just
(01:00:29):
cashing on that social security.
I'm sure his great grandfatherwould be thrilled.
Matt (01:00:33):
Yeah, he's like, he's like oh yeah, that section of the
this is back when he wasexplaining the house.
He's like oh yeah, that section, that's William's man cave.
We can't go in there.
That's his man cave.
Oh, william, I'll tell you what.
You see him.
He'll come up here with his bigtruck, with his snorkel exhaust
, and you'll know when he's here.
He's 63 going on 18.
(01:00:54):
Everyone's like okay, sobasically this guy is just your
typical Billy Madison-esqueperson.
I would say Steamed like it.
Jon (01:01:02):
That's how we conveyed him.
I don't know we never met.
Matt (01:01:04):
We never made him.
That's how you conveyed him.
Yeah, so you had.
Jon (01:01:09):
William and then his father , who is Harrison Tyler.
If you just search him onYouTube, the Today Show did
interviews with him.
Cbs Morning did a big thingyears, few years ago with he and
his wife.
So yeah, he was like the guy isknown as like the only he's a
grandson of a president that wasliving in the 1840s.
(01:01:32):
So just as crazy as math.
But he made a point of sayingall these, a lot of these
stories that he would say well,mr tyler said and whenever he
said mr tyler he was referringto harrison tyler, john tyler's
grandson a lot of uh, you know,kind of folksy, you know family
lore about it and was kind ofgoing off that um, like way,
(01:01:57):
like super tan, is that?
Matt (01:01:58):
no one really cared about the one?
Then, like he finishes all thisstuff and then he's like okay.
He's like okay, that's all Ihave for this is actually,
unless you want to hear anotherstory, you know I got one more
for you and so I say like I'llhear another one.
Like I wanted this guy to keepgoing, so then he told a story
about how harrison was at theWhite House with FDR yeah, as a
(01:02:20):
kid, he was born in 1928.
Yeah, yeah, and he was Because Iguess he hosted former
president's families or whatever.
And I guess Harrison Tyler saidsomething like he was like hey,
you got any questions?
Or something.
And Harrison Tyler said, yeah,can you wrap this up or
(01:02:42):
something like that.
Something, some story like thatwhich is like, which maybe was
like yeah, can this be over likethe tour please?
So we walk in.
Rule number one of this tour isno pictures inside the house,
which is a weird thing.
He claims that the reason forthat is mrs tyler, who is now
dead, didn't want anyone takingpictures of the house to catalog
(01:03:04):
it.
Jon (01:03:04):
I guess to steal stuff.
But it's interesting becauseafter this tour and just only a
few days ago, I loaded up a twoand a half hour long documentary
that c-span had done in like1999 and they literally had a
tour guide in their home filmingeverything which is the same.
Matt (01:03:25):
That you went to the house and then watch the two and a
half hour documentary about thatis like that's insanity to me.
I was trying to prepare for thepodcast, uh-huh sure so
anything I forgot?
yeah, so, um, so we go in, john,there's a, there's a door
knocker on there that hassherwood forest engraved in
there and, um, we, the dooropens and john, john takes his
(01:03:50):
phone out to take a picture ofthe door knocker and I like slap
his hand and I'm like nopictures.
And he's like oh, I forgot, anduh, I gotta get a picture of
that.
Jon (01:04:00):
Technically I could have taken a picture of it before the
door opened, because it wasoutside but not inside just a
little.
Matt (01:04:07):
Just a little side note that I thought was interesting.
There was one question thatjohn had that he didn't know
about and we didn't have to askit because it was answered um,
the uh, uh, it's called to the.
The plantation is calledsherwood forest because john
tyler's arch nemesis, henry clay.
When john tyler finished hispresidency, his one term henry
(01:04:29):
clay said something like he cango back to the to.
He can go back to his thatcriminal.
What was it that?
Jon (01:04:36):
crusader, you know that moral crusader, you know that
moral crusader.
Or whatever could go back tohis Shorewood Forest, like get
out of DC, you're done, you'rewashed up, you can go back to
being Robin Hood in theShorewood Forest and John Tyler
really took a liking to it, sohe named his plantation.
Matt (01:04:50):
It's kind of cool.
It's kind of like a middlefinger to Henry Clay, like that
name.
So that's kind of cool.
He's like yeah, sure, I'll callit that, Thank you.
Jon (01:04:57):
I loved how much he One thing we said as we walked up
too he's like Kentuckyans don'tlike coming here very much, and
I knew exactly what he wastalking about.
He said anyone who likes HenryClay would not be a fan of this
house.
Henry.
Matt (01:05:07):
Clay's from Kentucky, yeah .
Jon (01:05:18):
I got.
I think what he actually saidwas oh yeah, well, you know, you
were from Kentucky, we'd havereal problems.
Matt (01:05:23):
That is great.
Making fun of him is awesome.
Jon (01:05:31):
So we get in here and, like I got to say, we talked about
this a little bit after the factis like the house was a dump
For being a lived in home of aformer president that's actively
doing tours every day of theweek, monday through Friday.
Like they're doing tours, theysaid, and they're having people
come in and film or what haveyou.
It needed some touching up forsure.
Matt (01:05:47):
Yeah, like it was dusty, it was like needed a paint job,
which I know it's cool that guywas there.
Jon (01:05:54):
We saw a guy walk through it.
Matt (01:05:56):
Covered in paint.
Jon (01:05:57):
Right through the middle of our tour, stopped our tour
guide, dead in his tracks, fromexplaining whatever story was
going on.
Oh, yeah, yeah, got that truck,you moving that truck.
And the guy was kind ofobviously in his task.
He was just like doing histhing.
Matt (01:06:11):
He was like mid-work, he had to turn, stop and turn
around and be like doing histhing.
He was like mid-work and turnaround and be like, yeah, I'm
going for it right now, likekind of, since anyway we him's
like acting like he's runningthe show.
Jon (01:06:20):
Yeah, oh yeah you got all that.
Oh yeah, good, good, good andit was like but like it was cool
.
Matt (01:06:26):
There was some.
There was just a bunch oftrainers, very cluttered, they
had a bunch of stuff there.
They had some cool artwork,they had some cool stuff.
There was they had the chinafrom the White House that
happened to be.
It was William Henry Harrison'schina.
So when you that was a littlecool story when you become
president, you're given acertain amount of money to
furnish Congress appropriates tofurnish the house.
(01:06:47):
But since William Henry Harrisonhad died, they didn't give any
money to John Tyler.
They didn't have.
They had already given it toWilliam Henry Harrison, who blew
it on whatever.
So Tyler couldn't do it, butthen he ended up paying for it
himself, I guess.
Jon (01:07:00):
No, he bought China.
Congress appropriated funds toWilliam Henry Harrison.
They bought the China he and Iguess maybe his wife wanted he
died a month into office.
Congress didn't have any moremoney to give, because they just
gave it to the guy before andTyler said we just use this.
And then tyler's wife at thattime and julia gardner he would
eventually marry wall in office.
Matt (01:07:21):
I think she began furnishing as well yeah, so they
had, so they had, so they hadthat china.
Though that was really cool.
He showed that.
Did you walk right up to it?
Jon (01:07:32):
it was really nice it looked he kept like so tim was
tim was a rule breaker, you know.
Matt (01:07:37):
I mean, he was like they had a velvet, they had a, they
had a velvet rope.
Jon (01:07:42):
He was pulling it back, letting us walk it through the
the door open into the kitchen,which was a no-go, which was off
, yeah, so like so we so therewas like maybe there were like
three room, maybe two rooms thatyou could see.
Matt (01:07:54):
That was kind of was the museum part of it.
And there was another door thatjust happened to be open and
Tim said, oh, that door shouldbe locked.
He's like, well, you guys wantto go in and look at that?
He's like, well, you podcastersyou can't talk about this on
the podcast, so promise me thatyou're not.
And I said, well, I don't knowif I can answer that right now
(01:08:15):
To which that guy that John hadalluded to, who had that real
fancy job, turns around and goes.
You better get an answer quick.
You've been answeringeverything wrong all day for
having a podcast.
And I was like dead serious, hewasn't.
I'm like okay, he was joking.
Sorry, tim, breaking the rules.
Jon (01:08:33):
He wanted to hang with the boys.
He was there with his wife.
He wanted breaking the rules.
He wanted to hang with the boys.
He was there with his wife.
He wanted to be one of the boysin john tyler's house, which
was a bachelor pad.
When john tyler built the home,he bought it.
It was like a bachelor pad, sohe wanted to be one of the boys.
He wanted to join the bash yeah, so so then, um, mr.
Matt (01:08:47):
Then mr r then asked the question um, oh, so people live
in that part of the house andthen this part of the house they
don't live, which Tim got veryfrustrated about and said no, I
told you already, they live inthe whole house, they live here.
It's a lived-in house.
And Mr R is like oh okay, sorry.
Jon (01:09:07):
Well, he did kind of say that it was a very big home.
It's the size of a footballfield.
Matt (01:09:12):
I don't know if he told you already football field.
Jon (01:09:18):
I don't know if he told you already, but uh, basically the
family was so large.
John tyler himself had 15children eight from his first
marriage, second, seven from hissecond marriage and the guy who
lived in the house, william, sohis great grandson.
He came from.
I think I was the the secondyoungest child of the 15 is what
this line that's living in thehouse is currently.
They basically said that at onepoint the house was split in
(01:09:44):
two.
One family was living on oneside from the main entrance and
another family was living on theother side.
It was so big that they couldjust separate.
I don't think that was any timerecently.
This house was huge and there'sso many descendants.
But we kind of just walked downthis, this line and he showed a
bunch of cool stuff along theway.
(01:10:05):
There was pictures of thomasjefferson, things from
washington.
In the main foyer, when youwalk in, there was a really
interesting stand which above ithad had john's picture on it,
the painting that the Uniontroops had tried at what prying
from the ground, I guess.
So yeah, the Union army movedin on the peninsula during the
(01:10:29):
Civil War and they came to hishouse, didn't burn it down, but
did take a bunch of things.
Matt (01:10:38):
And I guess, because it was yeah, one thing thing that
was cool remember the dogs thatwere at the, uh, the dogs at the
entrance that were made of likecast iron, that they tried?
Jon (01:10:46):
yeah, they were britney.
Matt (01:10:47):
They were britney spaniels , I think, two dogs they were
local virginian breed.
That no exists, he well.
Well, he claims they're extinct.
But then when you ask like oh,when did they go extinct?
He's like I don't know.
I actually don't know if theyactually went extinct.
But yeah, the Union soldiersactually tried to steal those,
but they got as far as the gateand dropped them because of how
(01:11:10):
heavy they were.
They stayed there for yearsuntil I guess, till William
finally got off his lazy 63going on 18's butt to pick him
up and get him back on there.
So those were cool.
Yeah, I mean, it was just.
The house was just dilapidated,Not dilapidated.
(01:11:30):
If you bought this house, youwould have to do a lot of work
before you would host peoplethere.
You're not bought this house.
You would have to do a lot ofwork before you would host
people there.
You're not buying this houseand bragging about it right away
is all I'll say.
Jon (01:11:43):
Yeah, it felt dusty.
Matt (01:11:45):
Yeah, it was just dusty and whatever.
So the tour, just to sum it up,the tour then ends in a
ballroom, in a ballroom, andthis is where the a real a real
uh moment of the weekend hadoccurred.
Jon (01:12:03):
so we're in this like long hall, which was a ballroom that
john tyler, I think, himselfmaybe designed and he wanted to
just kind of batch it up there.
That's where he was.
There's a ballroom.
It was kind of lame, small.
It was small but for the dancein the two-hour documentary I
watched they did a danceperformance.
They showed the waltz, thedance he was talking about.
(01:12:25):
I forget what it was calledVirginia something or other.
Two-step, wasn't that?
And it's basically just youhave a lineup on either side and
then you just have a couplethat kind of goes in between the
two columns, and that's kind ofwhy you just need a long haul
for it.
And then you just kind of get tothe end and then you're part of
the line and then anothercouple goes down.
Matt (01:12:47):
We could do that at your wedding, maybe.
Maybe Could that be fun?
Jon (01:12:51):
Yeah, that'd be fun, pay a little homage, and so we're in
there.
It's where the tour is wrappingup.
He's got like a littlenightstand with some books in it
and you can buy some things,but it's at this point.
We then paid for the tour andeveryone's paying.
Matt (01:13:06):
Well, so he showed so as part of the tour, as part of
this ballroom.
It was kind of.
It was actually somethinginteresting that I didn't
realize is there were thesemirrors on the wall and they had
candlesticks attached to thebottom of them, and what he
showed us was that you have thecandlesticks outward and up
against the wall during the day,I guess, and then at night,
(01:13:27):
when you want to light up theroom better, you moved them so
they were then perpendicular tothe wall and then the light
reflected off the mirror to givemore light into the room.
So he had showed how thatworked by moving the candlestick
.
So then, so this is where wepay.
We paid with cash.
(01:13:47):
We gave him.
I didn't know if you tip him.
I was going back and forth, Ihad asked a couple people.
You tip him, I was going backand forth, I had asked a couple
people, and so I finally, justso everyone had left and it was
just the three of us and him andI gave him the money, and then
I said, hey, do you accept tips?
And he said, well, sure, ifyou're given.
Jon (01:14:07):
He snatched that 20, that Andrew Jackson, right out of
your hands.
Matt (01:14:11):
Which you know all $35 probably went right in his
pocket anyway, I don't know,they had like a change purse in
there, but who knows.
But so we pay him and then he,you know, then again, so then it
was just the boys, it was thethree of us me, john, mr R and
Timmy.
Timmy Coyne, and you know hewas, you know he was like hey,
just you know.
So why?
John Tyler?
(01:14:31):
Again, you know he was, he wasvery fascinated into why the
hell we were there, basically,and he didn't really get the
sincerity behind it, I think,just kind of surprised that we
were there.
So, john Anser, I think hisanswer was he followed the
Constitution, which our boy,ryan Powell, as we learned today
, would also be a fan of.
That reasoning that's a wholeother story.
But he starts talking aboutthat and then he's just.
(01:14:59):
Then he's talking about morestuff and like I'm like, dude,
I'm done with this tour.
I mean we're talking two and ahalf hours going through three
rooms of a house.
That's how wordy this guy is.
It's.
It was starting to get prettyold.
Jon (01:15:05):
I think john even was getting a little little like I
think he dimmed my enthusiasmfor john tyler maybe a little
bit.
A little bit.
So then he so then he's likedoing that.
Matt (01:15:14):
So then I'm like you know what?
So I start walking.
Then I like, I like break, I'mbored and I have add, so like I
break away and I start walkingthrough the, through the
ballroom, just looking around,and I go up to one of these
mirrors that have thesecandlesticks and I go look at
this and they're originals fromthe 1840s.
(01:15:35):
So he's in the middle talking toMr R about what he does for a
living and I start touching thiscandlestick and as soon as I
touched it and brought it towhere the position it would be
in to reflect off of the mirror,and as soon as I did that, Tim
stops what he's talking aboutand goes hey, what are you doing
?
Jon (01:15:52):
Don't touch that?
And to which Matt repliedwithout a second to spare what
you touched it.
To which Tim responded yeah,but I know which one to touch.
So I literally saw my37-year-old best man give a
(01:16:13):
10-year-old's response to thismuseum docent.
That's what he deserves, thoughlet's be real, I mean, he kind
of we cooled him down, I thinkhe was still kind of cool after
that like, oh you know, it'sokay.
I was bored, I gotta touchthings, oh.
And then he said that, oh, Iget bored, I start touching
things when I get bored.
Matt (01:16:34):
He also said that to him, and then Tim said yeah, I
noticed you were like leaned upon everything in the door.
I'm like Tim, you should takethat as a little tip we're doing
a solid.
Maybe you should, you know, makea little bit of a show To
(01:16:55):
compare the two.
The White House and theConfederacy was a great,
well-done, well-prepared, Ithink it was even like 45.
It was very well done, exactlyhow you would want it.
And then this one was just amess.
It was like a mess of a tour.
The house was trash and thetour guide was just.
He finally had people listeningto it.
(01:17:16):
You could tell this guy doesn'thave anybody to talk to like any
time, that he's not doing thistour.
Um, but it was funny and yeah.
Then he he like wouldn't let itgo.
He was very upset and we walkedout and he's like is there
anything wrong with it?
I'm like, tim, it's fine.
What, what do you?
What do you expect it to do?
Which john was actually?
I thought john would have beenlike, yeah, I don't know why,
(01:17:37):
but John was a little upset thatI touched it too.
I didn't think anything of it.
I mean, if it was fragile, justput rope around it.
There was no velvet rope aroundthose mirrors, it lived in home
Moodle lived there.
Jon (01:17:50):
So you can't touch it.
I think you got possessed bythe ghost.
Matt (01:17:55):
Yeah, that's haunting the halls that he said was plastered
.
Jon (01:17:59):
So there's apparently a picture, a face of a woman that
he says has been painted over,plastered over, and it keeps
just punching through, and Idon't believe it.
Somebody fell and broke theirneck on one of the staircases, I
don't know.
It's been haunted ever since.
Matt (01:18:14):
So then we took then we took a tour of the grounds.
We walked around a little bitand then, as we were leaving, we
saw Tim.
So this was like we took likemaybe another like 15, 20
minutes to walk the grounds.
There's not really that much tosee, it's kind of some of the
stuff's kind of cool.
And then we see him walk andlike literally like he walks
into the woods and like all thatI can compare it to is like you
(01:18:38):
ever see the movie legend ofbagger Vance John with Wilson.
He's like a caddy, it was likeat the at the end of that movie,
like bagger Vance's walks awayand like disappears Cause like I
guess he didn't really exist inthe film.
Is that the okay?
Like that's kind of whathappened with Tim.
He walked into the forest justlike oh, that's it.
Jon (01:18:59):
It was like it almost didn't even happen, tim, but to
just return the next day forsome other poor saps having a
tour Three-hour long tour, athree-hour tour I mean, I feel
like Gilligan would have beenbetter off staying on the island
than having a tour of Sher.
I feel like gilligan would havebeen better off on staying on
the island than having a tour ofsure it was.
Matt (01:19:21):
I mean it was fun.
I was glad we went.
It was definitely a bucket listitem for john and it was kind
of that was the main reason whythat was like.
Well, I guess it wasn't reallywhat got us down there, because
I just like had saw the, thehistoric triangle, I'm like,
yeah, that'd be cool to go to.
But then noticing that SherwoodForest was right, there is kind
of like a no-brainer to getdown there.
(01:19:42):
Well, it's like a no-brainer,Like, oh okay, Not only is that,
but if Sherwood Forest is there, we might as well do it.
This is like a one chance wecan do it.
It's a little bit of acommitment.
Yeah, so the time we did it,Like I'm saying, the house is
just a dump.
They could do so much work andfor $35 a person, I feel like
they could be putting that moneyto better use.
(01:20:03):
I mean you Well.
So you signed a guestbook at theend of the tour and I didn't
want to put my name down.
Neither did Mr R Jon put hisname down.
I didn't want to put my namedown.
Mr R put his name down.
I signed it to do's Kosciuszkoand Tim knows my name because I
had signed up for it and he keptlooking at the guestbook while
(01:20:25):
we were there and I'm like, oh,my god, he's gonna see I put a
fake name.
He's gonna see I put a fakename.
He never said anything.
But yeah, I signed it to do'sKosciuszko and it was dated.
And the reason I bring that upis like there are people who
take this tour fairly often.
I think the people who werethere, the last people signed
were like two days before us.
Yeah, that's every day of theweek.
(01:20:46):
I mean they offer it.
I mean you have to schedule it.
I assume that's why they don'tget a lot of people.
But I mean mean they must make.
They bring in a decent amountof money with this 35 dollars
and I think it just goes halfinto timmy's pocket and half
into william's, you know fancave projects and duck stands
(01:21:09):
which he had scattered
Jon (01:21:10):
around tree stands.
There's a big deer problem onsherwood forest apparently, but
yeah, I had a lot of fun it was.
It has been on my bucket listfor some time.
Lauren g can even attest tothat.
Um, yeah, he's one of myfavorite presidents interesting
family history, the fact thatit's still in the family.
The house needs a little tlc,but I think I think tim, tim and
(01:21:36):
co will will eventually getaround to it.
So, yeah, that was it, and soby the time we wrapped up there,
it was right on four o'clock,uh, on friday night we were able
to get to our airbnb, uh, whichwas cool.
And then, uh, our fourth member, mr w, showed up friday evening
(01:21:57):
.
He flew down from boston allright, fans.
Matt (01:22:01):
Um, that is it for day one of this fantastic bachelor bash
experience.
Um, john and I went a littleover time, as usual, but I just
(01:22:22):
couldn't cut out any of thosefantastic details that we just
went over from the two stopsthat we had, so I figured we'd
split this up into a two-parter.
If you guys have hung on thislong, godspeed or you know, I
(01:22:45):
don't know what you say, butthank you and we're going to end
this and then, you know, nextweek come on back and we talk
about the historic triangle ofVirginia, which, to tease it a
little bit, was a joke.
(01:23:05):
So we had a lot to say, as youcan tell, we kind of.
What we realized is I don'tthink John and I will ever do
anything and not think that wecould do it better, even though
we can't.
You'll hear a lot of that nextweek.
I don't know if we really gotto it much this episode, but
(01:23:31):
yeah, come back, listen to usnext week, and I hope you guys
enjoyed the details of a tripthat you weren't on, so I hope
we made it interesting for you.
All right, I got hairy legs.
(01:24:05):
Come on, man, and we saybye-bye.
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