September 24, 2025 • 32 mins
For our 150th episode, Alex and Amy are joined by North Dakota state CIO Corey Mock. We discuss how Corey's unique background as a young state legislator led him to the role of state CIO, how ND worked with different agencies to established the ND Gateway for businesses to have a more seamless government experience, what is on the horizon and how he survives the apparently brutal ND winters!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker (00:05):
Hi, and welcome to Nasio Voices, where we talk all
things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Putticker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're talking with NorthDakota State CEO Corey Mock
about his role and the state'sNo Wrong Door initiative.
Speaker (00:18):
Can't wait to hear from Corey, but we're also
celebrating our 150th episodetoday, and we wanted to
acknowledge that as well.
You never know how these hairbrained ideas are gonna go, but
here we are, still slowlyplugging away on episodes after
almost six years.
So let's get into it.
Corey, welcome to Nat SEOVoices, and thanks so much for
joining us.
Corey Mock (00:37):
It's great to be here, guys.
Speaker (00:38):
Yes, absolutely.
All right, Corey.
So you have a bit of a uniquepath into technology at the
state government level.
Can you share what led you tothe role of CIO for North
Dakota?
Corey Mock (00:50):
Yeah, so I had uh I come to this position after
spending what you have nearly ageneration in elected office.
I was in the North Dakota Houseof Representatives for 16
years, was elected at the age of23 by being at the time the
youngest serving.
I was the de facto subjectmatter expert on all things
(01:12):
technology, especially when youconsider the institution itself
is not known for sending a lotof younger uh people uh to the
body.
So it over the last 16 years, Ihad kind of cut my teeth on uh
on a lot of policy issues, but alot of it was focused on uh IT
technology.
And I had a little bit of abackground in high school, but
(01:32):
uh nothing as a I would neverconsider myself to be truly
technical.
But yeah, 16 years in thelegislature, a lot of experience
there working on the budget,working on IT.
I I love politics.
Uh I truly adore it.
I have almost no patience forpartisanship.
And that is something that uhled me to not want to run for
(01:54):
re-election.
It was a difficult decision.
Uh, I should say, I don't knowthat I would say not wanting to
run.
It was I was very torn, but Ididn't run for re-election in
2024.
Was making a mental transitionto other ways of giving back and
serving.
I was in Bismarck, uh thecapital city in mid-November
(02:15):
after the election, turning inmy laptop and and essentially
preparing to say my goodbyeswhen you know my friend, former
legislative colleague, and ourgovernor-elect, Kelly Armstrong,
called me up.
Uh, we met up that evening, andand uh I choose to believe that
a dozen people or so said nobefore he got to asking me.
But uh he you know, we had acandid conversation and he he he
(02:38):
he was pretty blunt.
He said, I want you to run myIT department.
And uh I was floored, I washonored, I was humbled.
Uh, you know, I tried to comeup with every possible reason to
say no, and then after a coupleof days and some some soul
searching, uh realized that no,this this is probably that
once-in-a-lifetime opportunitythat you'd be foolish to turn
down.
(02:59):
It checks all of my boxes, itscratches a lot of itches, it's
it aligns with my passion, uh,and it's it's been an incredible
journey ever since.
Speaker (03:08):
That sounds perfect.
I think as any state CIO willtell you, your job in politics
is not over, but it it isnonpartisan.
So it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Mock (03:16):
That is a a big draw to it because uh the the issues
that I enjoyed working on themost were the the least
partisan.
Yeah, it was problem solving,it was working with people, it
was uh it was you know findingcreative solutions to nagging
problems that could reallychange the direction of an
individual person's life.
Yeah, and and doing it in waysthat it may not always be
(03:37):
obvious.
It's it's the little thingsthat can mean so much.
So this has been great.
I certainly can't say enoughabout the amazing people that I
get to work with.
Kelly wanted someone withpolitical and budget experience,
and he said, I know you'regonna have amazing people that
know the tech.
I don't need you to know thetech, I need you to know
everything else.
And it's been uh veryempowering, uh incredibly
(03:58):
uplifting, and it's you know,truly one of the best decisions
I think I've uh I've ever madein my life.
Alex Whitaker (04:03):
Awesome.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Well, that's that's very cool.
I I think it just reminds methat one thing that um Doug
Robinson, our executivedirector, says that CO is a it's
a people and process job.
You know, it's technology isimportant, but it people and
process is key as well.
So um, all right.
So you came into this role witha lot of awareness and
visibility, I think, into kindof what North Dakotans needed,
what the what the technologychallenges were.
(04:25):
So would love to know what wereyour top priorities for how
technology could improve uh lifefor your citizens?
And then how would you saythose have evolved in the months
since you took the role?
Corey Mock (04:35):
Yeah, it's so when I came in December 15th of 2024,
um, you know, my my priority wasyou know rebuild trust between
IT and the agencies that weserve.
We are a centralized ITdepartment.
I consider us our Office ofManagement and Budget, which
does our fiscal arm, and thenthe governor's office, whether
(04:57):
it was always this way or it'sit's evolved into this, we've
become the triumvirate ofsupport agencies.
Uh the three of us are the corecentral services of all state
executive government functionsin North Dakota.
And IT has become a centralizedprovider of all IT-related
services for most agencies, uh,including state and local, uh,
(05:20):
the local side withcybersecurity and network
access.
Uh so over the last eightyears, you know, we had a
governor whose background wasnot politics, was not
government, his was technology.
He was uh uh former governorDoug Bergum, now Secretary of
Interior.
Uh he was highly tech focused.
(05:42):
It was uh you know a visionarygovernor who believed in the
role of technology in uhachieving those uh stretch goals
that an agency may have,wanting to improve the service,
deliver services, and and uhtreat government as uh kind of
as a business.
You know, eight years with thatmindset, it was challenged
(06:02):
assumptions, it put people in ain a position to rethink the
purpose of their agency andtheir government and our
government.
A lot of people thought it wasexciting, but admittedly, change
is hard.
Change can be taxing, it's ittests patience.
And and uh I know that therewas a lot of agencies that after
(06:22):
a while you you recognize thatin this case, technology was
frequently a priority.
And and and that whether it'strue or not, if it's implied, if
it's perceived, at some pointyou sort of feel like you're you
might be playing second fiddleto the governor's favorite.
And in this case, you know,there's a little bit of the
Marsha Jan Brady effect herewhere you know it's you know,
(06:44):
Marsha was, you know, we're theMarsha of the family, and
everyone else is the Jan Brady.
And at some point you just gettired of Marsha getting
everything, you know, being thefavorite, being the one that
everyone wants to talk about.
So I think there was a littlebit of technology fatigue that
was starting to set in withagencies.
Great people wanting to do anamazing job and deliver
services, yeah, whether it wasoptional or not to go along with
(07:05):
the governor's vision.
I think people felt like theymay have had to go along with
changes that they weren't quiteready for.
So when I came in, there's alot of backstory to you know,
really my purpose was to comein, my my vision, come in,
re-establish thoserelationships, rebuild that
trust, listen to the uh agenciesthat we serve.
You know, we are internalservice.
(07:26):
I'm not here to drive the boat.
I'm here to help otherssucceed.
We are the sidekick to theirsuperhero journey.
So it was a lot of listening,uh, understanding, finding out
how we can deliver the servicesthat they need to be successful.
And it was a very humblingopportunity to learn to meet
(07:47):
people that I've already knownbecause of my past experience,
but to come to them with adifferent hat, a different set
of ideas, a differentperspective.
I was able to ask differentprobing questions because I was
familiar with their budgetsituation and some of the
challenges that they may befacing.
So over the last nine, 10months, it's evolved slightly
(08:10):
in, you know, I'm still bringingthat focus to the agencies, but
we're gradually moving fromthat triage mentality of solving
the problems that were causedby past decisions and getting us
to think with a little bit moreof a forward focus.
Instead of focusing so much,and we have to do it, but we're
(08:30):
so focused on resolving,remediating our tech debt.
How do we stop putting more andmore on the credit card?
So right now we're we'reworking down that balance.
We've got to stop digging thehole with the other hand.
I mean, we've got to getourselves to a point where we're
making responsible decisionsthat don't lead to future tech
(08:50):
debt because it's the easy, it'sthe expedient thing to do
today.
And that's been a big thing.
It's wanting to bring agenciesalong as partners, help them be
the drivers of the change, andhow can IT be the enabler of the
things that they need to getdone?
Alex Whitaker (09:06):
Yeah, Corey, that's really fascinating.
I I got to become familiar withGovernor Bergham's
administration when I wasworking at the National
Governors Association.
And so, of course, given hisbackground and everything, you
know, he was the go-to person totalk about with technology.
So, but to hear thisperspective that, you know, that
could create a little cultureand organizational fatigue, as
well-intentioned as it is, is isa really interesting thing to
(09:27):
kind of explore.
So thanks, thanks for sharingthat.
I I if I I hope to I'd love tohear more about that because I
think there are a lot of statesthat could probably relate with
that as well.
So But so, you know, NorthDakota recently launched the
North Dakota Gateway Portal forBusiness.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about how that
fits into the broader no-wrongdoor vision, which is really
interesting, and maybe give alittle description of what that
(09:48):
philosophy means for residentsand and business owners actually
in practice.
Corey Mock (09:52):
Yeah, several years ago, you know, I recall sitting
on appropriations and we werevisiting with different
agencies.
One of the things in my priorlife worked with a lot of
communities and businesses inthe economic development world,
a growing frustration from yourchambers of commerce, your
centers for excellence, yourentrepreneurial communities was
(10:12):
the frustration of what it takesto just do basic things with
the government.
Just turning in your annualreports, filing your taxes,
having to have five or sixdifferent logins because you've
got to submit different reportsto different agencies.
It's all the same thing.
It's all going to the state ofNorth Dakota, but it's going to
a different agency within thestate of North Dakota.
(10:33):
You have businesses, theydon't, they don't want to be
experts in bureaucracy andpaperwork.
They want to be experts intheir business.
They want to focus on that.
And it was we'll call it aminor inconvenience.
It was a nagging challenge thata lot of businesses were
getting frustrated with.
And you would hear itfrequently.
How can you make this so that Idon't have to spend as much
(10:55):
time doing this?
Or having, you get four or fivedifferent passwords so that I
can file my taxes and do mySecretary of State annual
report, uh, my working's comp,all of this.
When uh when you know GovernorBergam and the uh NDIT came
forward with a few agenciessaying, we want to bring this
together under one portal, youknow, where you just go in, the
(11:18):
Amazon model, if you will, ofgoing into one place to buy all
of your things, to do it onestorefront that gives you access
to all of the little entitieswithin.
Um there was some enthusiasmmet by the legislature, and
there was uh a great opportunityfor us to do what a lot of
states are doing, and that'screating that that gateway, that
(11:39):
portal, that first stop,one-stop operation for civic
services.
You know, North Dakota, likeevery other state government, I
choose to believe, is you knowwe we were built on this
mentality of silos.
I envision a what today wouldbe a large metropolitan area,
(11:59):
but 100, 150 years ago was acollection of small towns all
scattered briefly around oneslightly larger city.
And over time, as thepopulations of those cities
grew, they just blended intoeach other to the point where
you no longer can easily tellwhere one ends and the other
begins.
And if you are in the city, youprobably recognize that Monroe
(12:21):
Street is the is the boundarybetween your city and the other
city.
But if you're just a personwalking on the road, walking on
down the sidewalk, you have noidea.
And if you know, imaginesomeone wanting to mail a
letter.
They don't care which postoffice stamps the envelope.
They just want it delivered.
But if you are bound by yourzip code and those rules, those
(12:44):
arbitrary rules of who gets todo what, you create that
unintentional friction thatmakes it difficult for people to
do really basic things.
So when you consider a stategovernment, you've got your core
agencies that now you, youknow, once upon a time, each had
a specific and unique function.
But as we've evolved and as theneed for different services
(13:06):
have come forward, you createmore modern agencies, try to
reconcile them with your legacyagencies, you know, think your
tax, your auditor, yourinsurance.
And then you get some of thatmission creep.
There's blending of who doeswhat.
And at some point it justbecomes so convoluted that you
just you you lose track of whodoes what, for whom, and when.
(13:29):
And this is a biggerconversation that we've got to
tackle in state government.
A lot of the states, uh,federal government, they've been
doing what you know, call itthe Doge Committee or government
efficiencies.
But taking that step back,reflecting on what it is that
you're doing, how you'redelivering those services, and
is it the most effective andefficient way of doing it?
From an IT perspective, that'sthat's kind of how we need to
(13:52):
approach this is how can we helpidentify that denominator of
all of the things that we do andthen improve that access to
those services so that you don'tend up with half a dozen
different workforce initiativesand people lose track of where
you need to go for what.
And the gateway was that thatwas that pilot into this.
(14:12):
It's it's not, we hadn't quitetaken that full step back.
It was that layer over top ofyour core business agencies, so
that when someone has aquestion, they can go to one
place and still have all of thatinformation.
They can turn in theirpaperwork, the the information
goes from one form to anotherwithout having to duplicate
(14:33):
their entry.
And then you still, but youstill maintain that access from
the individual agency.
So if you know that theSecretary of State's office is
where you go for your businessregistration, your trade names,
your annual reports, you canstill go there.
But you'll also have theability from within to then
pivot and do your taxes and doyour workmen's comp and your job
(14:55):
service.
So that was the vision, andit's it's what we're still uh
building towards because we knowthat there's a great
opportunity for us to bring alot of these services together
under one umbrella.
Alex Whitaker (15:06):
Awesome.
Thank you.
Amy Glasscock (15:07):
Yeah.
Do you guys call it IndyGateway or North Dakota Gateway?
Corey Mock (15:11):
So right now, uh it's we've we've referred to it.
It's Indy Gateway.
It's uh the first iteration wekind of labeled it as the
business gateway.
Uh and then the next iteration,we've over the years it's been
labeled the citizen gateway.
Uh admittedly, I don't knowthat that's what it's going to
be called uh down the road.
It may, but yeah, you know, Ialso see the opportunity as we
(15:33):
start to add services, addfunctionality, improve the back
end so that the public employeesthat are relying on that
service on those tools, theirlives are a lot easier, that the
information just is there.
It shares across agencies.
I think as we bring themtogether and start to vision for
what this really can look like,modeling off of a lot of other
(15:54):
states that have done greatthings, regrettably need to give
credit to the the other Dakota.
Good humor.
Oh boy.
South Dakota is actually areally good partner.
I, you know, you got to havethat sibling rivalry.
But South Dakota has done areally good job at building out
their gateway, their portal.
And you know, following theirjourney, mapping it, looking at
(16:15):
how it's uh changed, howcitizens interact with their
government, you know, bringingagencies in to play with that,
to see how their counterparts inother states have have uh
changed that that entryway,giving them an opportunity to
play with the name and uh andmaybe uh create a creative North
Dakota spin on what we call itonce we really hit that uh
second and third phase of thisof this development.
Speaker (16:37):
Gotcha.
All right.
Well, speaking of the agencies,how did you bring the agencies
together in this first phase fora common vision?
And what has that collaborationlooked like behind the scenes?
Corey Mock (16:49):
I think like any major project, it usually
requires someone with a bigpersonality and and maybe uh uh
a little clout to uh voluntel afew people to sit in the room,
come around the table.
Uh I think with a lot of it isthe partners in this first
iteration recognized theimportance of making it easier.
(17:11):
But also going back to thatsilo or the uh metropolitan city
urban sprawl example, sayingthat you need to create a better
map system to navigate all ofyour city boundaries is a great
idea when you're not directlyinvolved in that city function.
(17:32):
It can be interpreted as uhalmost as a slight or as an
insult to one of those cities inthis case, that they're not
doing a good enough job atsharing information about what
the other cities do.
You know, that your your citymap, your regional map that
you've your city make isn't goodenough.
(17:53):
It creates that there's alittle implied criticism by
saying that we have to dosomething different or do it
better because what we'recurrently doing isn't good
enough.
And then in anything, whetheryou you realize it or not,
there's a lot of pride in thework that you've done over the
years.
No one has ever sought out tocreate a website or an
(18:13):
application with the intentionof making life more complicated
for someone else.
You always do it with goodintentions.
And and when you're reallyembedded into that function,
it's really hard to hear theopportunities for improvement
and not hear it as a failure ofwhat has been done before.
(18:34):
And and I say that, and I'm youknow, this is where my life in
politics I've gotten pretty goodat being more blunt than I
probably should.
But that's one of thosechallenges that we're we're
having to unwind is we broughtthe core players together
because it needed to be done.
And the governor was the onetaking the lead.
(18:55):
You had a big personality witha lot of support.
The business community was wasunequivocal in their support for
wanting to see someimprovements, but in grabbing
people and bringing them to thetable, you may have bruised a
few elbows, um, in this case,bruised a few egos.
And you know, that's where thatpolitics of this comes in.
(19:16):
You know, everyone there,well-intentioned, and they all
provide phenomenal services topeople.
I mean, North Dakota is one ofthe best places in the country
to do business for a reason.
That didn't happen by accident.
And we've got half a dozen corebusiness agencies that do an
exceptional job at meeting theneeds of the people they serve.
But in this, we had threeindependent constitutional
(19:39):
offices, elected statewide,technically independent, and
then three other cabinet-levelpositions with totally different
constituencies.
One is a federally funded jobservice, the other is a special
funded uh monopolistic workmen'scomp.
It's funded through businesspremiums that every business in
(19:59):
North Dakota has to do businesswith.
And the third is our generalfunded uh Department of
Commerce.
So, really some differentpersonalities coming together.
We had to bring them in, try toget them to work with us at
different times, knowing thatthey have their own challenges,
their own schedules, their ownpriorities that might not be
exactly this.
It worked.
(20:20):
It was not without somechallenges and frustrations.
And now my hope and plan as webring these people together is
you know, learning from thissuccess, hearing those stories
of businesses that are doing,you know, that are interacting
with these applications, andhelping them as the individual,
as the agencies, help themenvision what this can look like
(20:42):
as it as it matures.
And yeah, it like anything, ifit was, if it was easy, it would
have been done by now.
And really the journey is thedestination.
You do it for the challenge.
That's what makes it excitingbecause uh no two days are ever
the same, and you're always uhyou're eager to see what the
next opportunity brings.
So great support, phenomenalpartnership.
(21:02):
I think it speaks a lot to thatNorth Dakota, nice North Dakota
polite nature, well-intentioneduh civil servants that have uh
a vision for doing a better jobfor the people, for the
neighbors in their community.
Speaker (21:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know it can be hard.
Uh that change management issuch a big part of the role, and
folks, folks don't always likechange.
So the portal will, as Iunderstand it, eventually expand
into other areas for business,and it sounds like beyond
business as well.
But what are some of the nextcapabilities or services that
you're most excited to add infuture phases?
And what impact do you expectthem to have for businesses in
(21:37):
North Dakota?
Corey Mock (21:39):
So as we get citizen functions in there, right now
it's it's a lot of businessfocus items.
I think as this matures anddevelops, we've been
implementing more of ourlow-code no-code platform.
Um, you know, it was all builton ServiceNow.
How do we modernize those otherapplications as we are
(21:59):
deprecating old applications,you know, uh resolving some of
our tech debt.
How do we bring those functionsinto our low-code no-code
platform?
There wasn't funding earmarkedfor the next phase directly.
However, we backed into thefunding by taking on an
(22:20):
initiative to improve to addresssome inefficiencies.
And in that was our onboarding,offboarding of public
employees.
And while North Dakota might bethe 48th largest state in terms
of population, you know, we area very large employer, you
know, thousands of publicemployees, you've got regular
turnover.
Well, it's pretty easy with thecentral IT that if you don't
(22:42):
have an automated way of turningout uh licenses and functions
on and off, it's easy to losetrack of who has what licenses.
And then everything is gettingbilled.
Before you know it, you runinto the issue of your auto pay,
multiple subscriptions.
You find yourself paying forthings that you know you signed
up for three years ago that youhaven't logged into in the last
18 months.
(23:02):
Uh and that's we recognize thatthere's some of those
inefficiencies by havingturnover employees moving across
agencies.
Some of those licenses don'tget deactivated.
Uh, there's there's delays ingetting people subscribed to
different to different tools.
So, a major initiative thisbiennium is to automate some of
(23:23):
our onboarding-offboardingfunctionality.
To your average North Dakotan,they won't notice a thing
because most people don'tinteract with those functions.
To an agency, it could savehundreds of thousands of dollars
over the course of two years.
That is the difference betweenhaving people ready on day one
and not having to pay forsomeone after they've retired.
(23:44):
That's your hope.
Without that efficiency, you'restruggling to find the funds to
deliver the next phase ofgrants because you're burning
through your capital faster thanyou had anticipated, and you
don't understand where the leakis.
So we really see an opportunitythere.
It's it's a major initiativealong with some of our other
tech debt plans.
(24:05):
One of the initiatives that thegovernor has come in with six
broad initiatives, and with thisonboarding, offboarding, one
thing that we've we'verecognized as we bring these
functions together is theimportance of data.
And we are very early in ourdata maturity.
We started the work identifyingdata, doing data literacy, data
training, data classification.
(24:26):
It's easy to forget howimportant that is.
And AI has been a phenomenalreminder of this because
everyone wants to use the nexttool, the next feature of AI.
But AI doesn't, it'smeaningless unless the data
behind it is trustworthy.
And we've had agencies comingforward, we're talking about
(24:46):
some of the initiatives, how dowe measure success?
People that are recognizingthat we've got more and more
work to do with our datamaturity, data identification,
data classification, and datasharing.
And I'm I'm blessed to have aperson on our team, our chief
data officer.
She is uh I mean my challengeto you is to find uh someone.
(25:12):
If you if you find someone wholoves you half as much as Kim
Weiss loves data, your life willnever, you'll never be wanting.
Your life will, you will havechecked all of the boxes, uh,
the American dream, uh, theepitome of happiness, because
her passion for data ispalpable.
Uh, and she's been taking aleading role in the governor's
(25:36):
initiatives, in our subcabinets,and really bringing data to the
conversation.
How can we improve our datastrategy so that all of these
things that we're working onrecreation, workforce, housing,
government efficiency, tribalrelations, all of that is uh is
a success, not just in how wefeel about it, but
(25:58):
quantitatively, that we canmeasure that growth and success
and then make smart decisions inour planning going forward.
Alex Whitaker (26:05):
Awesome.
Well, that's that's reallyfascinating.
I think all of it.
So at this point, we havecovered uh the amazing work
you're doing with North DakotaGateway and a lot of the other
initiatives you have in thestate.
Any other things you want tocover or any uh words of wisdom
you'd like to impart to any ofour listeners?
We'd love to love to hear anyfinal thoughts you've got.
Corey Mock (26:22):
Sure.
Well, uh I appreciate it and uhgood humor and tolerance, the
ramblings of a of a recoveringpolitician.
Alex Whitaker (26:29):
Not at all.
We'd love to hear it.
Corey Mock (26:31):
I will say we've got you know a couple other things
that I'm I'm really proud we'reworking on.
It's funny.
I came into the legislature in2008, and I'm I'm a you know
student of history, and I I lovedigging into the historical
record, and and I was readingminutes from some of my very
first committee meetings as a23-year-old freshman legislator
(26:52):
serving on the IT committee, andwe had conversations then about
the mainframe.
And you know, what are we goingto do to migrate off of the
mainframe and differentapplications?
That was uh that was 17 yearsago uh that we were having those
discussions.
I'm happy to report that we arewe are planning a retirement
(27:13):
party for our mainframe on June30th, 2029.
Everyone is invited.
Uh, we'll do it office spacestyle, if you can find anything
uh you know that we can bringout into a field and and beat
with our favorite tool and ourfavorite implements.
Uh it has been like anythingwhen you're modernizing your
(27:33):
applications and deprecating uhsome of those larger systems.
It's a lot of work, it's a lotof passion.
We are gradually makingprogress, but that mainframe
migration initiative is you knowwe're starting to see the light
at the end of the tunnel.
It's been a long road.
Uh, a lot of partners, I said alot of anxiety.
Very happy to report that weare uh on the path to
(27:55):
accomplishing this task withinthe next uh uh three-ish years.
The data strategy and data hub,anyone who's a homeowner knows
that you know the most importantpart of your house is your
foundation.
And it's also the one part thatis very difficult and expensive
to maintain, and it addsvirtually no value if you if you
put all the work into itbecause it's it's just you
(28:18):
expect it, you need it.
It's not adding a whole newfancy, flashy bedroom.
So that data emphasis is big.
It's it is the foundation thatall of our future success will
have to be built on.
We're still working on uh somecybersecurity initiatives.
We're very well positioned, butwe're beginning to treat
cybersecurity more and more asan element of public safety uh
(28:39):
and looking at it as an as anongoing investment, not a one
and done expenditure.
Uh I think a lot of agencies, alot of states are struggling
and wrestling with their ADAaccessibility.
We are late to the game onthis.
We've uh we've been dabblingwith it, but uh we're now we've
got a lot of partners that arecoming to the table with with
their concerns, but moreimportantly, with their
(29:01):
opportunities for improvement.
And that's been guiding a lotof our conversations.
Uh yeah, so there's there's alot of excitement, a lot of
things going on.
And the true policy nerd in meis excited most because I think
IT is well positioned as thatpartner that will be in those
conversations with agencies aswe start uh creating those
strategic plans for 2027 andbeyond.
Speaker (29:22):
Awesome.
Well, all right, Corey, we arewe're almost out of time, but as
our listeners know, we can'tlet you go without asking you a
few questions about your lifeoutside of work in a segment we
call the lightning round.
Are you ready?
Corey Mock (29:36):
I am so ready.
Speaker (29:38):
Okay.
All right.
Well, this time I asked ChatGPT to give me some lightning
round questions that are NorthDakota themed, and then we'll
see if they make sense to youbecause I'm not sure that they
all make sense to me.
So all right.
Question one more satisfying ona cold day?
Hot dish or lefse?
I'm not sure how this ispronounced.
Maybe you can tell me.
Corey Mock (29:57):
Hot dish or lefsa.
Lefsa is a is a A Scandinavianor Norwegian treat, uh potato
based, uh call it a pancake.
It's not a pancake, but uh Iwould say uh to that question,
hot dish all day every day.
Hot dish, that's your fuel.
Uh leftsta, that that's yourdessert for finishing your for
(30:17):
being a part of the clean plateclub.
So finish your hot dish, youget some left stuff.
unknown (30:21):
Nice.
Alex Whitaker (30:23):
Nice.
All right.
So what is the most underratedspot in North Dakota that you'd
recommend everyone visit atleast once?
Corey Mock (30:29):
Well, soon we'll have the Teddy Roosevelt
Presidential Library that opensnext July 4th.
Uh I've heard about it.
But I would say those aren'tthe underrated.
I'd say underrated watching asunrise on the Missouri River, a
summer sunrise on the MissouriRiver.
That is one of the mostbeautiful views you can imagine
on an open prairie with uh witha gorgeous river.
(30:52):
I I highly recommend it.
Speaker (30:54):
All right.
And final lightning roundquestion, chat GPT was very
concerned that the winters arecold.
Um, says that North Dakotawinters are legendary.
And what is your secret forsurviving or enjoying them?
Corey Mock (31:07):
Well, uh many layers of clothes, good humor, a
reliable snowblower, uh, seatwarmers, knowing the direction
the wind is coming.
I will say that the the wintersare long, they're cold.
It's not so much the snow as itis the wind and the
temperature, being prepared, butalso leaning in, uh recognizing
(31:28):
that it is in Arizona, uh, soyou know, know where you are and
find a way of making it fun.
For me, it's going outside withthe kids and it's taking the
dogs for a walk, even on thecoldest of days.
Uh, that if you're gonnasurvive the North Dakota winter,
dress well, um, keep the seatwarmers turned on, and uh, you
(31:49):
know, always stand uh with thewind, never facing into it.
Speaker (31:53):
That's right.
Alex Whitaker (31:53):
Nice.
All right, Corey.
Well, thanks so much for takingtime out of your busy schedule
to talk with us for our 150thepisode.
We really appreciate it.
Corey Mock (32:02):
Yeah.
Yes.
Like I said, I I choose tobelieve, I'm gonna say that I've
been sandbagging just so Icould be a part of this
milestone.
And I'm honored that youhumored me.
Speaker (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, we're honored to have youfor our uh whatever the word is
that you said.
Corey Mock (32:18):
Sesquicentennial.
I know.
All up nice.
Speaker (32:21):
I have heard it before, I just can't reproduce it.
Corey Mock (32:24):
I had to write it down.
Speaker (32:26):
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
Thanks, Corey.
Corey Mock (32:28):
We'll see you in Denver.
Thanks so much.
All right.
Bye.
Thanks, Matt.
Speaker (32:32):
Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices.
NASCIO Voices is a productionof the National Association of
State Chief Information Officersor NASIO.
Learn more at NASCAI.org.
Alex Whitaker (32:42):
And registration for the NASTEO Annual Conference
in Denver closes October 9th.
Hope to see you there.
Speaker (32:47):
We'll be back in two weeks with Emily Lane, who will
be giving us an annualconference preview.
Don't miss it.
Hi, and welcome to Nasio Voices, where we talk all
things state IT.
I'm Amy Glasscock in Lexington,Kentucky.
Alex Whitaker (00:11):
And I'm Alex Putticker in Washington, D.C.
Today we're talking with NorthDakota State CEO Corey Mock
about his role and the state'sNo Wrong Door initiative.
Speaker (00:18):
Can't wait to hear from Corey, but we're also
celebrating our 150th episodetoday, and we wanted to
acknowledge that as well.
You never know how these hairbrained ideas are gonna go, but
here we are, still slowlyplugging away on episodes after
almost six years.
So let's get into it.
Corey, welcome to Nat SEOVoices, and thanks so much for
joining us.
Corey Mock (00:37):
It's great to be here, guys.
Speaker (00:38):
Yes, absolutely.
All right, Corey.
So you have a bit of a uniquepath into technology at the
state government level.
Can you share what led you tothe role of CIO for North
Dakota?
Corey Mock (00:50):
Yeah, so I had uh I come to this position after
spending what you have nearly ageneration in elected office.
I was in the North Dakota Houseof Representatives for 16
years, was elected at the age of23 by being at the time the
youngest serving.
I was the de facto subjectmatter expert on all things
(01:12):
technology, especially when youconsider the institution itself
is not known for sending a lotof younger uh people uh to the
body.
So it over the last 16 years, Ihad kind of cut my teeth on uh
on a lot of policy issues, but alot of it was focused on uh IT
technology.
And I had a little bit of abackground in high school, but
(01:32):
uh nothing as a I would neverconsider myself to be truly
technical.
But yeah, 16 years in thelegislature, a lot of experience
there working on the budget,working on IT.
I I love politics.
Uh I truly adore it.
I have almost no patience forpartisanship.
And that is something that uhled me to not want to run for
(01:54):
re-election.
It was a difficult decision.
Uh, I should say, I don't knowthat I would say not wanting to
run.
It was I was very torn, but Ididn't run for re-election in
2024.
Was making a mental transitionto other ways of giving back and
serving.
I was in Bismarck, uh thecapital city in mid-November
(02:15):
after the election, turning inmy laptop and and essentially
preparing to say my goodbyeswhen you know my friend, former
legislative colleague, and ourgovernor-elect, Kelly Armstrong,
called me up.
Uh, we met up that evening, andand uh I choose to believe that
a dozen people or so said nobefore he got to asking me.
But uh he you know, we had acandid conversation and he he he
(02:38):
he was pretty blunt.
He said, I want you to run myIT department.
And uh I was floored, I washonored, I was humbled.
Uh, you know, I tried to comeup with every possible reason to
say no, and then after a coupleof days and some some soul
searching, uh realized that no,this this is probably that
once-in-a-lifetime opportunitythat you'd be foolish to turn
down.
(02:59):
It checks all of my boxes, itscratches a lot of itches, it's
it aligns with my passion, uh,and it's it's been an incredible
journey ever since.
Speaker (03:08):
That sounds perfect.
I think as any state CIO willtell you, your job in politics
is not over, but it it isnonpartisan.
So it is.
Yeah, yeah.
Corey Mock (03:16):
That is a a big draw to it because uh the the issues
that I enjoyed working on themost were the the least
partisan.
Yeah, it was problem solving,it was working with people, it
was uh it was you know findingcreative solutions to nagging
problems that could reallychange the direction of an
individual person's life.
Yeah, and and doing it in waysthat it may not always be
(03:37):
obvious.
It's it's the little thingsthat can mean so much.
So this has been great.
I certainly can't say enoughabout the amazing people that I
get to work with.
Kelly wanted someone withpolitical and budget experience,
and he said, I know you'regonna have amazing people that
know the tech.
I don't need you to know thetech, I need you to know
everything else.
And it's been uh veryempowering, uh incredibly
(03:58):
uplifting, and it's you know,truly one of the best decisions
I think I've uh I've ever madein my life.
Alex Whitaker (04:03):
Awesome.
Yeah.
That's awesome.
Well, that's that's very cool.
I I think it just reminds methat one thing that um Doug
Robinson, our executivedirector, says that CO is a it's
a people and process job.
You know, it's technology isimportant, but it people and
process is key as well.
So um, all right.
So you came into this role witha lot of awareness and
visibility, I think, into kindof what North Dakotans needed,
what the what the technologychallenges were.
(04:25):
So would love to know what wereyour top priorities for how
technology could improve uh lifefor your citizens?
And then how would you saythose have evolved in the months
since you took the role?
Corey Mock (04:35):
Yeah, it's so when I came in December 15th of 2024,
um, you know, my my priority wasyou know rebuild trust between
IT and the agencies that weserve.
We are a centralized ITdepartment.
I consider us our Office ofManagement and Budget, which
does our fiscal arm, and thenthe governor's office, whether
(04:57):
it was always this way or it'sit's evolved into this, we've
become the triumvirate ofsupport agencies.
Uh the three of us are the corecentral services of all state
executive government functionsin North Dakota.
And IT has become a centralizedprovider of all IT-related
services for most agencies, uh,including state and local, uh,
(05:20):
the local side withcybersecurity and network
access.
Uh so over the last eightyears, you know, we had a
governor whose background wasnot politics, was not
government, his was technology.
He was uh uh former governorDoug Bergum, now Secretary of
Interior.
Uh he was highly tech focused.
(05:42):
It was uh you know a visionarygovernor who believed in the
role of technology in uhachieving those uh stretch goals
that an agency may have,wanting to improve the service,
deliver services, and and uhtreat government as uh kind of
as a business.
You know, eight years with thatmindset, it was challenged
(06:02):
assumptions, it put people in ain a position to rethink the
purpose of their agency andtheir government and our
government.
A lot of people thought it wasexciting, but admittedly, change
is hard.
Change can be taxing, it's ittests patience.
And and uh I know that therewas a lot of agencies that after
(06:22):
a while you you recognize thatin this case, technology was
frequently a priority.
And and and that whether it'strue or not, if it's implied, if
it's perceived, at some pointyou sort of feel like you're you
might be playing second fiddleto the governor's favorite.
And in this case, you know,there's a little bit of the
Marsha Jan Brady effect herewhere you know it's you know,
(06:44):
Marsha was, you know, we're theMarsha of the family, and
everyone else is the Jan Brady.
And at some point you just gettired of Marsha getting
everything, you know, being thefavorite, being the one that
everyone wants to talk about.
So I think there was a littlebit of technology fatigue that
was starting to set in withagencies.
Great people wanting to do anamazing job and deliver
services, yeah, whether it wasoptional or not to go along with
(07:05):
the governor's vision.
I think people felt like theymay have had to go along with
changes that they weren't quiteready for.
So when I came in, there's alot of backstory to you know,
really my purpose was to comein, my my vision, come in,
re-establish thoserelationships, rebuild that
trust, listen to the uh agenciesthat we serve.
You know, we are internalservice.
(07:26):
I'm not here to drive the boat.
I'm here to help otherssucceed.
We are the sidekick to theirsuperhero journey.
So it was a lot of listening,uh, understanding, finding out
how we can deliver the servicesthat they need to be successful.
And it was a very humblingopportunity to learn to meet
(07:47):
people that I've already knownbecause of my past experience,
but to come to them with adifferent hat, a different set
of ideas, a differentperspective.
I was able to ask differentprobing questions because I was
familiar with their budgetsituation and some of the
challenges that they may befacing.
So over the last nine, 10months, it's evolved slightly
(08:10):
in, you know, I'm still bringingthat focus to the agencies, but
we're gradually moving fromthat triage mentality of solving
the problems that were causedby past decisions and getting us
to think with a little bit moreof a forward focus.
Instead of focusing so much,and we have to do it, but we're
(08:30):
so focused on resolving,remediating our tech debt.
How do we stop putting more andmore on the credit card?
So right now we're we'reworking down that balance.
We've got to stop digging thehole with the other hand.
I mean, we've got to getourselves to a point where we're
making responsible decisionsthat don't lead to future tech
(08:50):
debt because it's the easy, it'sthe expedient thing to do
today.
And that's been a big thing.
It's wanting to bring agenciesalong as partners, help them be
the drivers of the change, andhow can IT be the enabler of the
things that they need to getdone?
Alex Whitaker (09:06):
Yeah, Corey, that's really fascinating.
I I got to become familiar withGovernor Bergham's
administration when I wasworking at the National
Governors Association.
And so, of course, given hisbackground and everything, you
know, he was the go-to person totalk about with technology.
So, but to hear thisperspective that, you know, that
could create a little cultureand organizational fatigue, as
well-intentioned as it is, is isa really interesting thing to
(09:27):
kind of explore.
So thanks, thanks for sharingthat.
I I if I I hope to I'd love tohear more about that because I
think there are a lot of statesthat could probably relate with
that as well.
So But so, you know, NorthDakota recently launched the
North Dakota Gateway Portal forBusiness.
So I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about how that
fits into the broader no-wrongdoor vision, which is really
interesting, and maybe give alittle description of what that
(09:48):
philosophy means for residentsand and business owners actually
in practice.
Corey Mock (09:52):
Yeah, several years ago, you know, I recall sitting
on appropriations and we werevisiting with different
agencies.
One of the things in my priorlife worked with a lot of
communities and businesses inthe economic development world,
a growing frustration from yourchambers of commerce, your
centers for excellence, yourentrepreneurial communities was
(10:12):
the frustration of what it takesto just do basic things with
the government.
Just turning in your annualreports, filing your taxes,
having to have five or sixdifferent logins because you've
got to submit different reportsto different agencies.
It's all the same thing.
It's all going to the state ofNorth Dakota, but it's going to
a different agency within thestate of North Dakota.
(10:33):
You have businesses, theydon't, they don't want to be
experts in bureaucracy andpaperwork.
They want to be experts intheir business.
They want to focus on that.
And it was we'll call it aminor inconvenience.
It was a nagging challenge thata lot of businesses were
getting frustrated with.
And you would hear itfrequently.
How can you make this so that Idon't have to spend as much
(10:55):
time doing this?
Or having, you get four or fivedifferent passwords so that I
can file my taxes and do mySecretary of State annual
report, uh, my working's comp,all of this.
When uh when you know GovernorBergam and the uh NDIT came
forward with a few agenciessaying, we want to bring this
together under one portal, youknow, where you just go in, the
(11:18):
Amazon model, if you will, ofgoing into one place to buy all
of your things, to do it onestorefront that gives you access
to all of the little entitieswithin.
Um there was some enthusiasmmet by the legislature, and
there was uh a great opportunityfor us to do what a lot of
states are doing, and that'screating that that gateway, that
(11:39):
portal, that first stop,one-stop operation for civic
services.
You know, North Dakota, likeevery other state government, I
choose to believe, is you knowwe we were built on this
mentality of silos.
I envision a what today wouldbe a large metropolitan area,
(11:59):
but 100, 150 years ago was acollection of small towns all
scattered briefly around oneslightly larger city.
And over time, as thepopulations of those cities
grew, they just blended intoeach other to the point where
you no longer can easily tellwhere one ends and the other
begins.
And if you are in the city, youprobably recognize that Monroe
(12:21):
Street is the is the boundarybetween your city and the other
city.
But if you're just a personwalking on the road, walking on
down the sidewalk, you have noidea.
And if you know, imaginesomeone wanting to mail a
letter.
They don't care which postoffice stamps the envelope.
They just want it delivered.
But if you are bound by yourzip code and those rules, those
(12:44):
arbitrary rules of who gets todo what, you create that
unintentional friction thatmakes it difficult for people to
do really basic things.
So when you consider a stategovernment, you've got your core
agencies that now you, youknow, once upon a time, each had
a specific and unique function.
But as we've evolved and as theneed for different services
(13:06):
have come forward, you createmore modern agencies, try to
reconcile them with your legacyagencies, you know, think your
tax, your auditor, yourinsurance.
And then you get some of thatmission creep.
There's blending of who doeswhat.
And at some point it justbecomes so convoluted that you
just you you lose track of whodoes what, for whom, and when.
(13:29):
And this is a biggerconversation that we've got to
tackle in state government.
A lot of the states, uh,federal government, they've been
doing what you know, call itthe Doge Committee or government
efficiencies.
But taking that step back,reflecting on what it is that
you're doing, how you'redelivering those services, and
is it the most effective andefficient way of doing it?
From an IT perspective, that'sthat's kind of how we need to
(13:52):
approach this is how can we helpidentify that denominator of
all of the things that we do andthen improve that access to
those services so that you don'tend up with half a dozen
different workforce initiativesand people lose track of where
you need to go for what.
And the gateway was that thatwas that pilot into this.
(14:12):
It's it's not, we hadn't quitetaken that full step back.
It was that layer over top ofyour core business agencies, so
that when someone has aquestion, they can go to one
place and still have all of thatinformation.
They can turn in theirpaperwork, the the information
goes from one form to anotherwithout having to duplicate
(14:33):
their entry.
And then you still, but youstill maintain that access from
the individual agency.
So if you know that theSecretary of State's office is
where you go for your businessregistration, your trade names,
your annual reports, you canstill go there.
But you'll also have theability from within to then
pivot and do your taxes and doyour workmen's comp and your job
(14:55):
service.
So that was the vision, andit's it's what we're still uh
building towards because we knowthat there's a great
opportunity for us to bring alot of these services together
under one umbrella.
Alex Whitaker (15:06):
Awesome.
Thank you.
Amy Glasscock (15:07):
Yeah.
Do you guys call it IndyGateway or North Dakota Gateway?
Corey Mock (15:11):
So right now, uh it's we've we've referred to it.
It's Indy Gateway.
It's uh the first iteration wekind of labeled it as the
business gateway.
Uh and then the next iteration,we've over the years it's been
labeled the citizen gateway.
Uh admittedly, I don't knowthat that's what it's going to
be called uh down the road.
It may, but yeah, you know, Ialso see the opportunity as we
(15:33):
start to add services, addfunctionality, improve the back
end so that the public employeesthat are relying on that
service on those tools, theirlives are a lot easier, that the
information just is there.
It shares across agencies.
I think as we bring themtogether and start to vision for
what this really can look like,modeling off of a lot of other
(15:54):
states that have done greatthings, regrettably need to give
credit to the the other Dakota.
Good humor.
Oh boy.
South Dakota is actually areally good partner.
I, you know, you got to havethat sibling rivalry.
But South Dakota has done areally good job at building out
their gateway, their portal.
And you know, following theirjourney, mapping it, looking at
(16:15):
how it's uh changed, howcitizens interact with their
government, you know, bringingagencies in to play with that,
to see how their counterparts inother states have have uh
changed that that entryway,giving them an opportunity to
play with the name and uh andmaybe uh create a creative North
Dakota spin on what we call itonce we really hit that uh
second and third phase of thisof this development.
Speaker (16:37):
Gotcha.
All right.
Well, speaking of the agencies,how did you bring the agencies
together in this first phase fora common vision?
And what has that collaborationlooked like behind the scenes?
Corey Mock (16:49):
I think like any major project, it usually
requires someone with a bigpersonality and and maybe uh uh
a little clout to uh voluntel afew people to sit in the room,
come around the table.
Uh I think with a lot of it isthe partners in this first
iteration recognized theimportance of making it easier.
(17:11):
But also going back to thatsilo or the uh metropolitan city
urban sprawl example, sayingthat you need to create a better
map system to navigate all ofyour city boundaries is a great
idea when you're not directlyinvolved in that city function.
(17:32):
It can be interpreted as uhalmost as a slight or as an
insult to one of those cities inthis case, that they're not
doing a good enough job atsharing information about what
the other cities do.
You know, that your your citymap, your regional map that
you've your city make isn't goodenough.
(17:53):
It creates that there's alittle implied criticism by
saying that we have to dosomething different or do it
better because what we'recurrently doing isn't good
enough.
And then in anything, whetheryou you realize it or not,
there's a lot of pride in thework that you've done over the
years.
No one has ever sought out tocreate a website or an
(18:13):
application with the intentionof making life more complicated
for someone else.
You always do it with goodintentions.
And and when you're reallyembedded into that function,
it's really hard to hear theopportunities for improvement
and not hear it as a failure ofwhat has been done before.
(18:34):
And and I say that, and I'm youknow, this is where my life in
politics I've gotten pretty goodat being more blunt than I
probably should.
But that's one of thosechallenges that we're we're
having to unwind is we broughtthe core players together
because it needed to be done.
And the governor was the onetaking the lead.
(18:55):
You had a big personality witha lot of support.
The business community was wasunequivocal in their support for
wanting to see someimprovements, but in grabbing
people and bringing them to thetable, you may have bruised a
few elbows, um, in this case,bruised a few egos.
And you know, that's where thatpolitics of this comes in.
(19:16):
You know, everyone there,well-intentioned, and they all
provide phenomenal services topeople.
I mean, North Dakota is one ofthe best places in the country
to do business for a reason.
That didn't happen by accident.
And we've got half a dozen corebusiness agencies that do an
exceptional job at meeting theneeds of the people they serve.
But in this, we had threeindependent constitutional
(19:39):
offices, elected statewide,technically independent, and
then three other cabinet-levelpositions with totally different
constituencies.
One is a federally funded jobservice, the other is a special
funded uh monopolistic workmen'scomp.
It's funded through businesspremiums that every business in
(19:59):
North Dakota has to do businesswith.
And the third is our generalfunded uh Department of
Commerce.
So, really some differentpersonalities coming together.
We had to bring them in, try toget them to work with us at
different times, knowing thatthey have their own challenges,
their own schedules, their ownpriorities that might not be
exactly this.
It worked.
(20:20):
It was not without somechallenges and frustrations.
And now my hope and plan as webring these people together is
you know, learning from thissuccess, hearing those stories
of businesses that are doing,you know, that are interacting
with these applications, andhelping them as the individual,
as the agencies, help themenvision what this can look like
(20:42):
as it as it matures.
And yeah, it like anything, ifit was, if it was easy, it would
have been done by now.
And really the journey is thedestination.
You do it for the challenge.
That's what makes it excitingbecause uh no two days are ever
the same, and you're always uhyou're eager to see what the
next opportunity brings.
So great support, phenomenalpartnership.
(21:02):
I think it speaks a lot to thatNorth Dakota, nice North Dakota
polite nature, well-intentioneduh civil servants that have uh
a vision for doing a better jobfor the people, for the
neighbors in their community.
Speaker (21:15):
Yeah.
Yeah, I know it can be hard.
Uh that change management issuch a big part of the role, and
folks, folks don't always likechange.
So the portal will, as Iunderstand it, eventually expand
into other areas for business,and it sounds like beyond
business as well.
But what are some of the nextcapabilities or services that
you're most excited to add infuture phases?
And what impact do you expectthem to have for businesses in
(21:37):
North Dakota?
Corey Mock (21:39):
So as we get citizen functions in there, right now
it's it's a lot of businessfocus items.
I think as this matures anddevelops, we've been
implementing more of ourlow-code no-code platform.
Um, you know, it was all builton ServiceNow.
How do we modernize those otherapplications as we are
(21:59):
deprecating old applications,you know, uh resolving some of
our tech debt.
How do we bring those functionsinto our low-code no-code
platform?
There wasn't funding earmarkedfor the next phase directly.
However, we backed into thefunding by taking on an
(22:20):
initiative to improve to addresssome inefficiencies.
And in that was our onboarding,offboarding of public
employees.
And while North Dakota might bethe 48th largest state in terms
of population, you know, we area very large employer, you
know, thousands of publicemployees, you've got regular
turnover.
Well, it's pretty easy with thecentral IT that if you don't
(22:42):
have an automated way of turningout uh licenses and functions
on and off, it's easy to losetrack of who has what licenses.
And then everything is gettingbilled.
Before you know it, you runinto the issue of your auto pay,
multiple subscriptions.
You find yourself paying forthings that you know you signed
up for three years ago that youhaven't logged into in the last
18 months.
(23:02):
Uh and that's we recognize thatthere's some of those
inefficiencies by havingturnover employees moving across
agencies.
Some of those licenses don'tget deactivated.
Uh, there's there's delays ingetting people subscribed to
different to different tools.
So, a major initiative thisbiennium is to automate some of
(23:23):
our onboarding-offboardingfunctionality.
To your average North Dakotan,they won't notice a thing
because most people don'tinteract with those functions.
To an agency, it could savehundreds of thousands of dollars
over the course of two years.
That is the difference betweenhaving people ready on day one
and not having to pay forsomeone after they've retired.
(23:44):
That's your hope.
Without that efficiency, you'restruggling to find the funds to
deliver the next phase ofgrants because you're burning
through your capital faster thanyou had anticipated, and you
don't understand where the leakis.
So we really see an opportunitythere.
It's it's a major initiativealong with some of our other
tech debt plans.
(24:05):
One of the initiatives that thegovernor has come in with six
broad initiatives, and with thisonboarding, offboarding, one
thing that we've we'verecognized as we bring these
functions together is theimportance of data.
And we are very early in ourdata maturity.
We started the work identifyingdata, doing data literacy, data
training, data classification.
(24:26):
It's easy to forget howimportant that is.
And AI has been a phenomenalreminder of this because
everyone wants to use the nexttool, the next feature of AI.
But AI doesn't, it'smeaningless unless the data
behind it is trustworthy.
And we've had agencies comingforward, we're talking about
(24:46):
some of the initiatives, how dowe measure success?
People that are recognizingthat we've got more and more
work to do with our datamaturity, data identification,
data classification, and datasharing.
And I'm I'm blessed to have aperson on our team, our chief
data officer.
She is uh I mean my challengeto you is to find uh someone.
(25:12):
If you if you find someone wholoves you half as much as Kim
Weiss loves data, your life willnever, you'll never be wanting.
Your life will, you will havechecked all of the boxes, uh,
the American dream, uh, theepitome of happiness, because
her passion for data ispalpable.
Uh, and she's been taking aleading role in the governor's
(25:36):
initiatives, in our subcabinets,and really bringing data to the
conversation.
How can we improve our datastrategy so that all of these
things that we're working onrecreation, workforce, housing,
government efficiency, tribalrelations, all of that is uh is
a success, not just in how wefeel about it, but
(25:58):
quantitatively, that we canmeasure that growth and success
and then make smart decisions inour planning going forward.
Alex Whitaker (26:05):
Awesome.
Well, that's that's reallyfascinating.
I think all of it.
So at this point, we havecovered uh the amazing work
you're doing with North DakotaGateway and a lot of the other
initiatives you have in thestate.
Any other things you want tocover or any uh words of wisdom
you'd like to impart to any ofour listeners?
We'd love to love to hear anyfinal thoughts you've got.
Corey Mock (26:22):
Sure.
Well, uh I appreciate it and uhgood humor and tolerance, the
ramblings of a of a recoveringpolitician.
Alex Whitaker (26:29):
Not at all.
We'd love to hear it.
Corey Mock (26:31):
I will say we've got you know a couple other things
that I'm I'm really proud we'reworking on.
It's funny.
I came into the legislature in2008, and I'm I'm a you know
student of history, and I I lovedigging into the historical
record, and and I was readingminutes from some of my very
first committee meetings as a23-year-old freshman legislator
(26:52):
serving on the IT committee, andwe had conversations then about
the mainframe.
And you know, what are we goingto do to migrate off of the
mainframe and differentapplications?
That was uh that was 17 yearsago uh that we were having those
discussions.
I'm happy to report that we arewe are planning a retirement
(27:13):
party for our mainframe on June30th, 2029.
Everyone is invited.
Uh, we'll do it office spacestyle, if you can find anything
uh you know that we can bringout into a field and and beat
with our favorite tool and ourfavorite implements.
Uh it has been like anythingwhen you're modernizing your
(27:33):
applications and deprecating uhsome of those larger systems.
It's a lot of work, it's a lotof passion.
We are gradually makingprogress, but that mainframe
migration initiative is you knowwe're starting to see the light
at the end of the tunnel.
It's been a long road.
Uh, a lot of partners, I said alot of anxiety.
Very happy to report that weare uh on the path to
(27:55):
accomplishing this task withinthe next uh uh three-ish years.
The data strategy and data hub,anyone who's a homeowner knows
that you know the most importantpart of your house is your
foundation.
And it's also the one part thatis very difficult and expensive
to maintain, and it addsvirtually no value if you if you
put all the work into itbecause it's it's just you
(28:18):
expect it, you need it.
It's not adding a whole newfancy, flashy bedroom.
So that data emphasis is big.
It's it is the foundation thatall of our future success will
have to be built on.
We're still working on uh somecybersecurity initiatives.
We're very well positioned, butwe're beginning to treat
cybersecurity more and more asan element of public safety uh
(28:39):
and looking at it as an as anongoing investment, not a one
and done expenditure.
Uh I think a lot of agencies, alot of states are struggling
and wrestling with their ADAaccessibility.
We are late to the game onthis.
We've uh we've been dabblingwith it, but uh we're now we've
got a lot of partners that arecoming to the table with with
their concerns, but moreimportantly, with their
(29:01):
opportunities for improvement.
And that's been guiding a lotof our conversations.
Uh yeah, so there's there's alot of excitement, a lot of
things going on.
And the true policy nerd in meis excited most because I think
IT is well positioned as thatpartner that will be in those
conversations with agencies aswe start uh creating those
strategic plans for 2027 andbeyond.
Speaker (29:22):
Awesome.
Well, all right, Corey, we arewe're almost out of time, but as
our listeners know, we can'tlet you go without asking you a
few questions about your lifeoutside of work in a segment we
call the lightning round.
Are you ready?
Corey Mock (29:36):
I am so ready.
Speaker (29:38):
Okay.
All right.
Well, this time I asked ChatGPT to give me some lightning
round questions that are NorthDakota themed, and then we'll
see if they make sense to youbecause I'm not sure that they
all make sense to me.
So all right.
Question one more satisfying ona cold day?
Hot dish or lefse?
I'm not sure how this ispronounced.
Maybe you can tell me.
Corey Mock (29:57):
Hot dish or lefsa.
Lefsa is a is a A Scandinavianor Norwegian treat, uh potato
based, uh call it a pancake.
It's not a pancake, but uh Iwould say uh to that question,
hot dish all day every day.
Hot dish, that's your fuel.
Uh leftsta, that that's yourdessert for finishing your for
(30:17):
being a part of the clean plateclub.
So finish your hot dish, youget some left stuff.
unknown (30:21):
Nice.
Alex Whitaker (30:23):
Nice.
All right.
So what is the most underratedspot in North Dakota that you'd
recommend everyone visit atleast once?
Corey Mock (30:29):
Well, soon we'll have the Teddy Roosevelt
Presidential Library that opensnext July 4th.
Uh I've heard about it.
But I would say those aren'tthe underrated.
I'd say underrated watching asunrise on the Missouri River, a
summer sunrise on the MissouriRiver.
That is one of the mostbeautiful views you can imagine
on an open prairie with uh witha gorgeous river.
(30:52):
I I highly recommend it.
Speaker (30:54):
All right.
And final lightning roundquestion, chat GPT was very
concerned that the winters arecold.
Um, says that North Dakotawinters are legendary.
And what is your secret forsurviving or enjoying them?
Corey Mock (31:07):
Well, uh many layers of clothes, good humor, a
reliable snowblower, uh, seatwarmers, knowing the direction
the wind is coming.
I will say that the the wintersare long, they're cold.
It's not so much the snow as itis the wind and the
temperature, being prepared, butalso leaning in, uh recognizing
(31:28):
that it is in Arizona, uh, soyou know, know where you are and
find a way of making it fun.
For me, it's going outside withthe kids and it's taking the
dogs for a walk, even on thecoldest of days.
Uh, that if you're gonnasurvive the North Dakota winter,
dress well, um, keep the seatwarmers turned on, and uh, you
(31:49):
know, always stand uh with thewind, never facing into it.
Speaker (31:53):
That's right.
Alex Whitaker (31:53):
Nice.
All right, Corey.
Well, thanks so much for takingtime out of your busy schedule
to talk with us for our 150thepisode.
We really appreciate it.
Corey Mock (32:02):
Yeah.
Yes.
Like I said, I I choose tobelieve, I'm gonna say that I've
been sandbagging just so Icould be a part of this
milestone.
And I'm honored that youhumored me.
Speaker (32:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, we're honored to have youfor our uh whatever the word is
that you said.
Corey Mock (32:18):
Sesquicentennial.
I know.
All up nice.
Speaker (32:21):
I have heard it before, I just can't reproduce it.
Corey Mock (32:24):
I had to write it down.
Speaker (32:26):
Yeah, yeah.
All right.
Thanks, Corey.
Corey Mock (32:28):
We'll see you in Denver.
Thanks so much.
All right.
Bye.
Thanks, Matt.
Speaker (32:32):
Thanks again for listening to NASCIO Voices.
NASCIO Voices is a productionof the National Association of
State Chief Information Officersor NASIO.
Learn more at NASCAI.org.
Alex Whitaker (32:42):
And registration for the NASTEO Annual Conference
in Denver closes October 9th.
Hope to see you there.
Speaker (32:47):
We'll be back in two weeks with Emily Lane, who will
be giving us an annualconference preview.
Don't miss it.
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