Barbara Courtille - Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals - Native Yoga Toddcast

Episode Transcript
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Todd McLaughlin (00:33):
Welcome to Native yoga, Toddcast. So happy
you are here. My goal with thischannel is to bring
inspirational speakers to themic in the field of yoga,
massage bodywork and beyond.
Follow us native yoga, and checkus out at nativeyogacenter.com.
All right, let's begin.

(01:03):
Welcome to Native Yoga,Toddcast, I'm so happy to have
you here. Today, I have thechance to bring Barbara
Courtille onto the show. Barbarais located in Sydney in
Australia, she was kind enoughto coordinate our schedule so
the times could work where wecould be on the other side of
the world and join up here for aconversation. Please check her

(01:28):
out at Barbaracortile.com. Alsoon our Instagram page,
@Barbara_cortille_yoga. Andthose links are located in the
description below wherever you'dlike to listen to your podcast.
And on that note, why wait anylonger? Let's get to it. I'm so
excited to have Barbara Cor heretoday with me, Barbara, how are

(01:49):
things going for you?

Barbara Courtille (01:52):
Great, I'm really happy to be talking to
you on the other side of theworld, Todd, thanks for having
me.

I know I love the fact that we can communicate
like this through a platformlike zoom, and a word of the
podcast and that it's really aneasy way to actually go about
communicating. I love it. It'skind of amazing, isn't it?

Yeah. And I'm a big fan of podcasts. I listen
to yours amongst many others, asmy learning and keeping
motivated and just finding outwhat people are thinking all
around the world and connectingto other yoga teachers who are
you know, my favorite people,basically?

I hear Yeah, can you give me a little bit of
your background and relation tohow you first fell in love with
yoga?

Yeah, I started back in the 80s. In the
late 80s. When I was you know,in my early 20s, I had a
boyfriend who was a yogi. And Iwas more of an arty kid. You
know, I was into art. I alwayswanted to be an artist. And I
did that for many years. But Histhing was yoga meditation, he
traveled to India and he used todo i anger yoga and headstands

(02:55):
and all Koreas and all sorts ofweird stuff to me back then.
Yeah. And he's the one who tookme to my first yoga class, which
was an i anger class. And thatwas not actually a great
experience. Because my firstclass I was expected to do
handstands and all sorts ofthings that my body was not
happy to do. So and I canremember the teacher who was an

(03:18):
older woman, well, older,probably younger than me now,
but at the time, she seemed shekind of shame me, you know, in
the eye angle way that they do.
Gotcha. And get up, you can dothis. So it wasn't a great
experience, that first yogaclass. So it's kind of a miracle
that I'm still doing yoga allthese years later. And it's

(03:38):
basically my whole life. That's

amazing. Was that in? You're living in Sydney
currently? Where did you growup?

My early years, I grew up in Paris till I
was 10. And then I came toSydney. So I've lived in Sydney,
most of my life.

Nice. Was that first class in Sydney?

First class in Sydney, was

that first practice session that you had
with your boyfriend with ayounger teacher in Australia, or
was that somewhere else?

No, totally in Sydney. Yes. Gotcha.

And then from there, then obviously, if you
were not enamored, and youwalked away from that sounds
like maybe saying, What in theworld was that? What then was
your next step? Or how long wasit before you had another yoga
practice experience?

I think after that I did some meditation. And
that didn't that didn't gel withme as well. It was very strict
Buddhist meditation. So I didn'thave a great start to yoga, but
for some reason, I think I endedup in some what were then called
Hatha classes, and back then youused to do them like in church
halls or at you know, the policecenter or whatever it was called

(04:50):
a P yc. I forget anyway, itwasn't like the fancy yoga
studios like your studio. Therewas none of that stuff back
then. And it was very much Andpeople's lounge rooms and all
that. So I think I probablyfound some much more mellow,
lovely kind of teachers thatweren't gonna ask me to do
anything nasty like turn upsidedown. Ready to took me many

(05:14):
years before I could do a properhandstand with all the proper,
you know, structure that youneed for that.

Yeah. Do you have a teacher that you can say
that you credit your learningto? Or from? Or have you just
learned from a whole bunch ofdifferent teachers along the
way?

I've learned from a whole bunch of teachers
along the way. Yeah, I've neverbeen a lineage kind of teacher
either. I've explored differentlineages. I think it's just in
my nature to try differentthings and find my own way. So
I've been we did a lot, we didthe Hatha Yoga, then I went back
to the eye angles, believe it ornot, and then I was into Jeevan

(05:54):
Mukti for a long time. And thenI was more into vinyasa than I
was into Yin that I was doingsound healing. So I've done all
this stuff, restorative yoga,and I just keep going and
changing and learning as much asI can and incorporating what
what resonates with me.

Wonderful. What does a practice session look
like for you today?

So this morning, I did some yoga in bed.
Nice. And then I got up and dida bit of asana practice, very
simple. Plugging into the bodynoticing where our whole
tension, which for me isgenerally in the upper body, so
I do a lot of work on the upperbody, opening the chest, opening

(06:41):
the heart, I work a lot on thechakra system and the energy
body. So I do some meditation totune in some chanting to feel
where the energy is flowing,where it might be stagnant,
where it might be overflowing.
And it's from that observationthat are then direct my
practice. So it will lookdifferent every day. But there
are some things that tend toalways be there, like the

(07:04):
throat, throat chakra is a bitof a weakness for me, I just had
a little bit of manuka honey anddid a bit of throat exercises
before talking to you becauseit's always a little bit weak.
That part for me, yeah, theupper body, a lot of upper body,
I'm quite strong in my lowerbody. I'm quite grounded, as by
nature spend a lot of time innature. I like to meditate in

(07:27):
nature every day, if I can, ifthe weather's good, so I'll go
I'm lucky I live near a BHRTnear some nature, Bush, we call
it here in Australia. And soI'll go and find a rock and I'll
do a bit of meditation. Andthat's, that's really my most
nurturing practice meditation.

That's cool. I noticed a follow you on
Instagram that you have a couplepictures or pictures of you
practicing on a rock is that therock that you're talking about?

That rock is called Swamis rock. It's not
where I live, but it's where Igo on retreat. So two or three
or four times a year, if I'mlucky, I'll go to the ashram
which is not far from where Ilive maybe an hour away in
nature. And that's a particularrock where a swami here in
Australia has been practicingfor many, many years. So it's

(08:19):
got a lot of great energy.

Nice. Do I noticed that your yoga coach and
mentor, when did that role comeinto play for you?

I think it probably came into play fully
when COVID came along. And whena lot of teachers suddenly had
to become or realize that theywere business owners, and that
they had to find their owncommunity, their own tribe and
take charge of their ownbusiness or their own passion.

(08:56):
Yeah, without relying onstudios, or whatever they were
relying on before that time. Sothat's when a lot of yoga
teachers, as you know, you know,kind of had a little bit of a
pivot into becoming morebusiness minded because they had
to. Yes. So there was a lot ofdemand when COVID came along,

(09:17):
when everyone was having, youknow,

yeah, that was pretty intense. Very intense.
Isn't it? Amazing that now wecan like talk like it's past
tense?

Yeah, no, it's great.

It's really great to find wisdom. We
survived on a lot of differentlevels. I agree.

Do you actually think yoga teachers did
exceptionally well as if we canput them all in a group because
obviously, we're all differentwithin that group. And as a
tribe, I think they, from whatI've observed, did really well
in terms of like pivoting andchanging, keeping their spirits
up and keeping the spirits ofall the people around them up?

(09:59):
You know, it was It wasn't aneasy task. So congratulations to
all the yoga teachers out there.

That's a really great point in when you say
like, you know, yoga teachersdid really well, what if you had
to pick a demographic or a groupthat you observe that didn't do
so? Well? The rest of the world?
I'm joking, but was there likea, you know, something that you
observed in your local communityand or that you just felt really
bad for them? Or just thoughtlike, Oh, that looks really

(10:29):
rough, or I wonder how they'regonna get through that? Or, you
know, was there something thatyou saw that really pulled at
your heartstrings?

Yeah, I think parents, parents, especially
parents, that had to homeschool,I just, I'm not a parent. But I
have a lot of students who areparents, and also yoga teachers
who are parents, and it's justlike, wow, doing all of that. I
mean, parenting in general isalways, I think, a big feat, as
well as your job and having afamily and doing all of this

(10:59):
stuff. But during that whenpeople had to homeschool as
well, I just thought, wow, thatis that is a big feat.

Yeah, there was challenging, no doubt. I'm
curious, do you have abackground that then when you
were able to coach to yogateachers to figure out a way to
kind of get on their feet withmaybe the zoom and or business
coaching? Do you have abackground that that you've
trained in, that's helped you toget to this point?

I have a lot of admin experience. I was an
executive assistant for manyyears. So I'm very organized.
Yes, I'm particularly techie.
But I know who to ask.

Nice. What point had you been working in
the digital platform realm? LikeI noticed that you have you have
online courses, you have acourse called create a
successful yoga business? Didyou have something like that in
place prior to pandemic? Or isthat something that you were
able to develop? On the fly?

That's actually quite new I developed
when the pandemic No, I wasn'tonline at all, before the
pandemic. I had, I developed achakra course that was the first
online course that I did. Andthen I did a yin yoga course,
online. And this is my thirdone, which is and this one's
more business, businessdirected, rather than practice

(12:27):
directed,

nice. I saw one of your Instagram posts recently
that you highlighted a yogateacher in the Northern
Territory up in Darwin. And sheyou kind of highlighted how she
went from being like a studiomanager to a studio owner. Did
you travel to Darwin to see herstudio and or practice with her?

(12:50):
Yes, that's

exactly what happened. Yes, cool. So when we
were finally able to fly out ofthe city, which was only earlier
this year, I went up to Darwin,because that's the place that I
could go without going overseas.
And also, because it's amazing.
Like, it's an amazing place.
Beautiful nature, the Outback,it's really very powerful, very
spiritual place. And yes, Icontacted her before I went up

(13:14):
to say if I could interview her,and also our practice there,
because when you travel, youneed yoga more than any other
time. Yeah. The climate is very,very hot up there, adjusting to
the climate and the diet, andjust traveling in general is
exhausting. So that's when youreally need to do your yoga
practice.

Agreed. Had you been to that part of Australia
before was like a first timetrip? No, I had been there
before. Nice. Yeah. That's cool.
I had a chance to live inAustralia for a little while,
but I did not make it to theNorthern Territory. And I regret
that sounds. It's amazing. It'snever too late. It's never too
late. I agree with you. I agree.

(13:56):
And and what are you currentlyin relation to coaching yoga
teachers? What some advice thatyou give to someone who's maybe
just finished a yoga teachertraining program, and they're
wondering, like, where do Ibegin? What how can I start to
cultivate a yoga career.

If you just come out of training, the best
thing to do is do as muchteaching as you can, wherever
you can. Don't be fussy. Becausethat's the first thing you need
to get your legs and confidencein. And you can only do that
through teaching. So teach,teach, teach, whoever it is your
neighbors, your family, go andteach as much as you can. That's
the first number one thingbecause you need to have, you

(14:43):
know, you know what it's likelike, it's not easy when you
haven't done it before, unlessyou've got teaching background
and I think teachers, peoplewith a teaching background have
have you know, an advantage thatthey've already had all public
speaking and all that sort ofstuff. But if that's not your
back proud that you really,really need to get in there and
get as many hours under yourbelt as possible just for your

(15:04):
own confidence.

Yeah. Good point. Do you remember the first
time you taught somebody

I was teaching people to people before
I did my training, I think Iused to because so much sugar, I
can remember being in Cuba andteaching people on the beach. I
think I saw myself as a bit of ayoga teacher, before I was a
yoga teacher, I must have had itin me somewhere. But in terms of
like, when I was doing mytraining here in Sydney, with my

(15:34):
teacher, Matt Bergen, I wasteaching before I'd finished to
practice. But I was teachinglike not getting paid just with
people that I knew. I wasn'tallowed to call it yoga, yoga
classes because of insurance orbecause I didn't have my
certificate, I can't rememberthe reason. So it was just a

(15:55):
call out, I can't remember whatit was. But I was already
teaching before I'd finishedbecause I knew from experience
that you need to just get inthere and do it. So by the time
I'd finished my training, I'dalready done quite a few hours
of teaching. And my teacher thengave me a job in that studio. So
then I just went for it.

Nice. And when you when you started teaching,
I'm curious. Were the classsizes? Like one person, five
people, big classes, 20 people?
What was the likes feel or sizeof the classes at that time?

It was a pretty small studio. So it
wasn't like 50 people oranything like that the most
would have been maybe 12 or 15.
Yeah, yeah, I started I got the,you know, the dodgy hours when I
went turns out. There were a lotof times when they they'd be
like, you know, two people.
There were a few times whenthere was only one person I

(16:53):
never liked that. I always feltvery awkward about one person.
One person being there. It wasalways very strange. I tend to
really like big classes.

Yeah, yeah.
Class, I hear ya, I hear ya. Imean, occasionally, we have a
situation where, you know, maybejust one person will show up for
class. And I always try to spinit like, Oh, this is gonna be a
great opportunity, because we'regoing to do a private today.
Yeah, yeah. But I hear Yeah,there can be that little bit of
awkward sensation or feeling oflike, you know, like, when you

(17:26):
go to a restaurant, and you'rethe only person sitting in the
restaurant, you're like, what,what, what's going on here? You
know, like, should I be here?
And so yeah, it's interestingpsychology to try to like, shift
that really fast. And be like,I'm so excited. We have this
opportunity. We're going to,what do you want to work on and
make it really personal, but Ihear you big classes are fun.

(17:49):
Yeah, well, that's cool. And areyou? So how far do you travel
all around Australia? Likeweather places? Have you been in
Australia?

Yeah, I've traveled all around Australia.
Yep. Very cool. It's full place.
I encourage you to come back.

Do I would love to do? Do you ever go back to
Paris or France.

I went back a few years ago, I lived there for
about six months, I went back toParis, my place of birth. And I
really wanted to find out how Iwould feel about it as an adult
to just live there. Becauseprevious to that we you know,
just go on vacation and visitthe family and so forth. Yeah,
run around the country and doall that. But I wanted to just

(18:31):
be there, stay there. I went tothe local yoga studio every day.
And I just had a littleapartment. And I just wanted to
know what it what it would havebeen like if I'd actually if my
parents hadn't come toAustralia, and if I'd been
stayed as a French person. Yeah.
Experience, which wasinteresting.

Do your parents still live in Australia?

I've just got my dad now. And yes, he lives
just up the road for me inAustralia and Sydney.

Wonderful.
Wonderful. That's cool. What isthe yoga studio vibe currently
in Australia in relation to I'mguessing COVID might have caused
people to have to shut down andtherefore maybe not everybody
stayed open. What is the vibenow are people did a lot of
people were able to hang on oras has everything shut down and

(19:17):
people are reopening. What's thecurrent vibe?

I think a lot of places have shut down. Yes,
there's not that many boutiqueyoga studios around I've just
moved from the other side of thecity. So I'm in a new territory
where I am. It's quitedifferent. The scene where I was
on the other side of the bridge,there was a lot more yoga and a
lot more kind of traditionalyoga in a sense, but yes, a lot

(19:46):
of gyms are absorbing yoga nowand a lot of Pilates studios. So
Pilates I don't know what it'slike in Florida, but here in
Sydney Pilates has taken overthe world. It's kind of like
yoga used to be like maybe Idon't know. 20 years ago, you
know when yoga and yeah, it wasreally hot. Yeah, well, now it's
Pilates. Everyone is doingPilates. So some Pilates studios

(20:09):
incorporate yoga. I'm not surewhy. Because to me, it's
completely different. Yeah. Butthey seem to think that it's
cinema. And so yeah, that'shappening. And then a lot of the
gyms are kind of sprucing uptheir gyms a bit and making them
look a little bit more yoga,like, rather than putting yoga
in the middle of all themachines and so forth.

Interesting.
And so you had made a post abouthow you were just kind of
reminiscing a little bit aboutthe boutique yoga studio, I
think it was in reference towhen you visited your friend and
the Northern Territory, and thatyou were noticed or making
mention that you appreciated theboutique element as opposed to
like these larger behemoth, likecorporate yoga, structured

(20:52):
places. Does Australia havesomething like here we had Yoga
works, which, interestinglyenough, just shut down all of
their locations. But has therebeen like a big corporate yoga
monster that's tried to dominatethe scene? They're

not as big as Yoga works? Yeah, I think that
was a big surprise to everyonethat they closed down. So you
never know what what's behindthe scenes in these big
corporations? Yeah,

that's true.
Yeah, I

think there's like some gyms like Fitness
First, or our look, I'm not veryofay with gyms, to be honest.
But yeah, there are some biggerplaces that tend to absorb all
the things but you know, yeah.
yoga studios, very specialplaces.

I agree. I agree for sure. That's cool. And
so are you currently teachingclasses are more focusing on the
mentoring aspect?

I'm focusing on the mentoring but I'm still
teaching. I love teaching. LikeI love it. Yeah. But I don't
want to teach too many classesbecause I burn out pretty
quickly. Yeah, because I, I givetoo much. They get a bit too
passionate. So I'm very carefulabout that. I'm only teaching

(22:16):
probably now that I've moved.
It's changed again, I've hadabout nine classes. And now I
think I'm probably down to aboutsix or seven. But in general,
we're going to be trading a lotmore and then trainings come and
listen that comes but generallyspeaking, I'm not teaching that
much but enough to keep myfinger in and enough to sort of
keep you know that passionburning for teaching because I
love teaching.

Yes. I hear Yeah, it is amazing. When the
classes that you have onschedule, are you teaching
predominantly in or do you walkin and mix it up every time?

No, I'm doing half half my classes are hotter
classes, the other class half ayear and so I try to keep that
that balance of Sun and Moon.

Yes. Yeah.
What's the most challengingsituation you've come across
recently in teaching?

Um, I taught it a new place the other day
wasn't challenging. It wasfunny, but it didn't it did. Did
maybe give more insight I wassaying I didn't want cash when I
was on a downward dog and thenwhen Mukesh rhinos and I brought
by and some woman becausechatted out can you speak
English, please? So that took meby surprise, because you know, I

(23:32):
don't know these people it was Iwas filling in for someone. And
I was like, oh, because nobodyhears the sound scream. I think
it's really important to connectback to source, but always say
the English as well. But shedidn't give me a chance to get
to the English. But anyway, sheprobably just frustrated at the
Sanskrit. So that was that wasfunny.

Yeah, it is interesting, isn't it? Like if I
feel like I'm honoring thetradition by using the Sanskrit
term, but it's amazing howsometimes that really throws
people for a spin.

Huh? Yeah, yeah. And it was an interesting
experience and sometimes youcan't make assumptions because
the teacher that I was fillingin for said to me she said to
me, I don't do anything toospiritual. No chanting No, this
no that the other and I justended up doing a class like I
normally would like to startwith some Pranayamas and asanas

(24:28):
and meditation because that'sjust all well rounded class.
Yeah. But then the next day, Igot a message from the gym owner
saying how, how much they lovedit and she got feedback. And so
it was like, and then the nexttime I went, I said to them, I
said, Okay, you know, how areyou with chanting? Does it get
you comfortable with that? Blah,blah, and they're going on? Yes,

(24:48):
chanting is great. That's whatyoga is all about. So you say
you can't make assumptions thatjust because you're teaching in
a particular setting a gym, thatthese people are not Interested
in the deeper teachings of yoga?
I think people are, it's justthe way that you present it.

Yeah, good point. Do you come across people
who when you mention Yoga, youknow, judge you right off the
bat and kind of clump you into acategory that, you know, if
you're talking about like, hey,it'd be really great if you come
to my yoga class, and you know,they maybe shrug their shoulder,
give you that feeling that like,you know, there's no way I would

(25:27):
do yoga. Do you ever get that?
Or do you feel like most peoplearound you are like really kind
of hip to it?

I think most people are oh, look, there are
people that aren't. To behonest, I've never been into
selling yoga. I've never beenthe person that says, oh, you
should come to yoga. It's great.
Like, no, it's like, people willcome to it, you know, and
they'll love it. Or they won't.
And that's fine. I'm not intoyoga is for everyone. And
everyone must do yoga. Becauseyou know, for some people

(25:58):
running is their thing orwhatever.

Yeah, yeah. I noticed on a post you did on
Instagram that you were talkingabout just trying to help people
get comfortable with being oncamera, you made mention about
how when you initially startedyoga practice there, we didn't
Well, a we didn't have cellphones, of course back in the
80s. But there definitely wasnot. Well, I wasn't practicing

(26:22):
in the 80s. So I can't speakwhat it was like to practice in
the 80s. I remember the 80s I'mcurious, what is your
recollection of the 80spracticing yoga and I love the
80s 80s a really classic era.
You know, when no one was takingtheir their camera out, like I'm
the I'm picturing like Polaroidor obviously at that point, we

(26:43):
were like getting our film takenout of the camera, taking it to
the drugstore to get processed.
And then you get that littlepackage back in there. However
many photos that were in likethree of the 24 were like,
decent. And yeah, so do you haveany old pictures of you doing
yoga from like print film fromthe 80s? So it just wasn't? It

(27:05):
wasn't a pension? You've just

been? That would have been unheard of like,
you didn't take cameras into aspiritual space. Yeah.

How do you reconcile that now?

Well, now things are completely different.
Now. I don't even think twiceabout it. But it's just
interesting how it's like whenmobile phones first came out,
like, I remember thinking it wasreally rude. Well, we all
thought it was really rude ifpeople looked at their phones
while they were talking, or ifthey were in a shop and they'd
look at their phones while theywere waiting. That seemed to be
a really rude thing to do. Andnow, no one thinks twice about

(27:42):
it. Like, we adapt to things.

That's a good point. What what where's the
line for you now though, I wason an airplane just a couple of
days ago. And the person infront of me had their phone on
watching movie full blast, noheadphones. And I just couldn't
I was like, really just tryingto like, just relax. Like,
imagine this is your son? Well,if it was my son, I would have

(28:06):
definitely been like, did youget to turn that off? You're
going to turn that down? That'sso rude to other people. Like no
one wants to hear like putheadphones in where it would
what kind of like pushes yourbuttons these days with lack of
awareness of other people andtheir their phones?

Yeah, no, I would have said something. to
children. You've got to knowwhen to act in practice. Good
point. Yeah, no, that's not on.

Not on. Okay.
Cool. So now that would have gotyour attention as well. Yeah,
yeah, of course.

The whole plane would have been on my side
I'm sure.

Well, I was looking around like, is anybody
else like you know, is anyoneelse like feeling this right
now? It was only me I guess. Sono one else seemed to be
bothered. I don't know. Butyeah,

that that person thought that that was
okay. Maybe he or she or theythought that they had their
headphones on and didn't realizethat's what I

thought that's what I kept thinking like maybe
they think they're had i Yes, itis interesting. Do do you have?
Okay, so scenario, I'm a newyoga teacher and I need to
market my yoga teaching, but Idon't like using my cell phone.

(29:28):
I don't feel comfortable onsocial media. I don't really
want to take pictures thatmyself I wrote I saw you wrote a
question to pose or not to posethat is the question. What what
more were you implying bywriting that?

Oh, I was just trying to get a discussion
going because there are I workwith some teachers who are very
uncomfortable even now we've allthe practice in front of a
camera and you know, you don'tbecome a teacher to be a model.
I get that. So if I think ifit's, I think there's two ways

(30:07):
to look at it in one way it's achallenge just like a handstands
a challenge. And you have to gopast your ego and you go past
your and there's different waysof looking at it. I try and say
to people look at, if you showyour face, then you're making
connection. You know, it's,especially if you're online,
it's very difficult to build acommunity online, if you're not

(30:30):
willing to show your face. I'mnot saying that it's impossible.
But why would make things harderthan they already are? Because
it's already hard.

Yeah, good point.

I think like anything, it's practice, because
I know I wasn't comfortable thefirst time that I was not so
much in pictures, but like,video, like talking like we are
now like, once upon a time, thatwould have been like, really
stressful. Yeah. Whereas nowthink twice about it. And the
only reason is, because I'vedone it so many times. It's
practice, practice, practice.

Good point. I,

yeah, to challenge yourself sometimes, so
that you can grow, basically,

yeah, I'm trying to do that as well. I
feel like being in front of thecamera, in the past, for me was
not comfortable. And Idefinitely did not want to do
it. And now that I'm practicingit, I'm starting to have a
little bit more fun with it. Irecently read a really great
book by man named steve stockmanand called how to shoot video
that doesn't suck. And I thinklike, even if you don't do video

(31:34):
of yourself, this book would beinteresting, because it's really
gotten me to look at theperspective of when I watch a TV
show or a movie, like where thecamera is, is the camera moving?
Or is it not? Does it zoom in?
Doesn't it? How long are theshots? Like typically, it's only
like three seconds, like, everyshot is like, it's constantly
moving around. Obviously, it'sdifferent for every film. And he

(31:56):
had a quote in there that hesaid something I don't know if I
would be able to get exactlyright. But he said like in terms
of building your authenticity,just basically rip your guts out
and put them on the table foreverybody to see. And that's
difficult to do for mepersonally. How do you feel
about keeping privacy, like yourprivate life? And like, where do

(32:21):
you find the line for beingcomfortable or open was sharing
some of the deeper parts of yourlife in that realm?

Yeah, I don't feel I personally don't share a
lot of private stuff or what Iconsider to be private. I guess
that's that's a fine line,what's private and what's not
private? I mean, all my posts,and blogs and writings are about
yoga. Of course, yoga is mylife. So that's, you know, it's

(32:57):
personal in that sense, but I'mnot talking about my great.
Yeah, look, I think it's agenerational thing, too. I mean,
younger people are much morecomfortable about talking about
all of this stuff. Yeah, butwhat I call what I consider to
be the oversharing. But that'sjust my perspective, if you're
from that generation, itprobably doesn't feel like

(33:19):
oversharing because that's whatthey've grown up with. So I
wouldn't be comfortable. And Idon't particularly enjoy reading
that kind of stuff myself. Isort of feel if you're a
teacher, you know, it's notabout you.

That's a good point.

It's about you're there for you. It's like
being a teacher is is serviceyou're serving. So I'm a little
bit personally I don't like tobe Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee Mee
Mee Mee

I agree.

It's relevant to the person that I'm teaching,
unless that's going to inspirethem in some way. Yeah, really.
It's a focus on on your people.
So for me, it's the yogateachers, I want to focus on
them not say, Hey, do what I do,because that's just me. And
everyone's different.

Yeah, good point. I hear you on that.
That's a good point. What aresome of the most common
complaints that you hear fromwhether they're new yoga
teachers or long term yogateachers with the challenge
today with earning a living as ayoga teacher?

I think the main challenge for every one is
marketing. Marketing, SocialMedia. No one wants to do it. No
one wants to sell stuff. Yep.

Oh, yes. So what's what do I do? Your
practice? Yeah, good answer.

There's no shortcut to practice.

So just focus on yoga practice and the
marketing side. Just know I'msorry. I'm saying you go to
practice the market does themarketing Gotcha. If your way

that I do it and I think the way that's
effective for most yoga teachersis to approach your marketing,
the same way you approach yourpractice. And the same way that
you approach the challengingpractices, not the things that
are easy. You know, if arson isreally easy for you, then what's

(35:28):
difficult meditation perhaps fora lot of people, Pranayama or
whatnot, whatever it might be,we all have challenges in our
practices. So it's like thatit's something that's difficult
that you don't want to do. Butyou kind of know that you have
to do it, like, you know, thetappers. It's the tablet. Yeah,
it can't just not everything inlife is easy. And I understand

(35:49):
that no one wants to, I don'twant to be marketing either.
Like, I didn't have to, but youlearn a lot. And you build
confidence. And it's reallyimportant to have confidence as
a teacher, because that's what'sgoing to exude to your students.
And if you have confidence,they're going to trust you.
They're going to feel likethey're in good hands. If you're

(36:09):
not confident, then, you know,

yeah, yep. You mentioned that you gain
inspiration from listening topodcasts. I think this is a
great exchange of informationopportunity here. What other
sources do you seek forinspiration when you're feeling
not inspired?

Nature, go out in nature and get get
perspective. You know, we'reonly here for a very short time,
we're only a tiny speck. It'sonly one lifetime amongst many.
So putting things inperspective, I think is really
important, because we get sowrapped up in all this stuff. I

(36:54):
do too. We all do. Becausethere's so much stuff to do as a
yoga teacher, or the yogateachers know this. The people
that don't teach probably don'trealize all this stuff we have.
And it's getting more COVIDhasn't helped.

Good point.
Yeah, we're juggling way moreplates. I had a good yoga
teacher friends say, Who wouldhave thought when we started
teaching yoga, we would alsoneed to be IT specialists,
marketing professionals, we'dhave to learn how to use cameras
and audio equipment, we'd haveto navigate leases on businesses
or not leases on businesses or,or brick and mortar versus the

(37:33):
online platforms. It definitelyseems like we're needing to
multitask more.

Yeah, especially if you're running a
studio. That's a bigresponsibility.

It is. It's a big one, for sure. It requires
every single day. Like we'vebeen here 16 It'd be going 17
years now in April. So Wow.
Yeah, it is. It's like itrequires like it's a some degree
putting the blinders on. Andjust like, I'm not given up,
like, you know, sometimes it'san easy ride, but other times

(38:11):
it's it's not easy.

Yeah, well, thank you for that long. That's
really amazing.

Thank you. I don't know if I'm being really
stubborn now. Like, I'm notgonna like I will die before us
to get shut down. Like, like,I'm I don't know if that's like
being pigheaded or what but butyeah, I'm taking it I take it
pretty seriously now. Not givingup? That's for sure. What thank
you what, what? What otherchallenges do you hear from your

(38:46):
students and or the people thatyou are helping to mentor?

Yes, I think burnout is a big one people
doing as we were just saying,like, if you do all the things
and you want everythingyesterday and you're not happy
with the results, because ittakes a long time, as you know,
less things don't happen. Ithink this might be generational
as well. Like people expectingthings to happen really quickly
and expecting to be successful.
Yeah. And all of that andcomparing themselves to the yoga

(39:14):
stars or whoever you know, Imean, it's it's silly. Yeah. So
getting some perspective on howlong it takes to build a
business which is a long time asyou know, you've been there 17
years.

i Thank you i love I've really been enjoying
reading your posts because Ifeel like you you do a really
great job of keeping it simple.
One thing I find that I getcaught up on that I'll trip up
on like just what you said likeif I look at somebody has it
seems like fame, like yoga fame,and it seems like they're doing

(39:50):
everything right and like wedon't really know the backstory
behind how they got there. Theirstruggle And or the ease of it.
And sometimes we, we look atthem, and we say there's no way
we could do I could do that,like, clearly they have
something bigger and better. AndI don't know, I feel like your

(40:11):
coaching tips are very, theymake me feel like I can do it.
You know, it's just down toearth. How do you how do you?
How are you tapping into that?
What Where do you? Where doesthat come from?

Oh, thank you. Yeah, I'm a very down to
earth person I hate I hatebullshit. And one of the things
that I hate most on social mediais all these coaches that tell
you how much money they make,and how they make all these, and
they go on about the multifigures. I mean, I don't even
understand that talk. And I justthink like, how is that that's

(40:48):
just not motivating to someonelike me, but obviously, it's
probably motivating to otherpeople. Maybe it's an American
thing You tell me. But I hearthat. And I just think, Oh, God
go away. Like, I don't want toknow. Yeah, because not only is
it unrealistic, but it alsodoesn't make me feel great to
think that someone's earning allthis money. And here I am

(41:09):
earning, you know, just a livingwage. And it's like, oh, hang
on, really. And you're tellingeveryone that they can do it,
too. If you just follow my 10steps, and, you know, join my
thing, and then you took andit's just like, watch, like,
really? What universe are youon? It's not my universe? That's

a great point by right. Do you do feel like
there's like formulas that thatpeople are just copying the
formula? Do you know what Imean? Like if I, I think that
person is successful over there,what are they doing? Well,
they're talk talking about howmuch money they're making, and
that I can help you get theretoo, if you just follow my 10
steps. And that, obviously, is aformula that it looks like it's

(41:52):
working. Do you ever, sometimesI'll sit down and think like,
Okay, I don't want any formulasin my head. Like, what can I do
that's just totally inspired inthe moment of like, personal? Do
you have epiphany moments whereyou'll get a flash and you'll
get an idea for something to sayor talk about or the direction

(42:17):
you want to take? How does yourcreative process happen for you?
And in the process of coming upwith what you decide to focus
on?

Yeah, that's a good question. I do have
epiphanies, but I haven't hadone for a while now.

Are you ready for it? I'm ready for a new
epiphany.

Thank you for putting that in my little beta
seed into my head, because nowI'm going to have one because
I'm due for one, I'm wayoverdue. I'm a very quick like,
I'm a painter as well. So I'mvery creative. That's my whole,
my whole being is about being inthe flow. And when I'm not in
the flow, and I'm not gettingthose ideas, I get very

(42:59):
frustrated. Yeah. But I go tonature, always nature, always
meditation, and slowing down. Sothat's my biggest challenge is
to slow down because I'm veryI've got a lot of pizza in me.
Like my body is quite cap, I'mquite grounded, and quite heavy
and solid. But inside, I'm veryPeter, like fire fire ideas,

(43:22):
ideas, ideas, and it's hard forme to slow down take the time.
That's hard for me, because I'mquite passionate. But I know but
I know myself, like I've beenaround a long time. That's what
the meditations all about, youknow, you get those rains,
holding the reins, holding thesensors, and try and get some

(43:46):
some focus on Drishti. So thatyou're not all over the place,
which I can be very easily.
Look, I think here, we're alllittle project here little
project there. And I do youknow, I paint and I write, I'm
studying philosophy, I'm writinga book, so I tend to have a lot
of on too many. Yeah. And thenthat gets the fire going. And

(44:06):
then I've just gotta go, okay,slow down and just do one thing.
So that's going to be mysankalpa for next year. So each
year I'll have a new sankalpanext year is all going to be
about slowing down and doing onething at a time. And that's
going to be torture.

Can you define sankalpa? For our listeners in
case there's someone who doesn'tknow?

Yes. sankalpa says that intention and it's an
intention that to be effectiveneeds to be in line with your
dharma or your path or youryour, your purpose, your greater
purpose. And generally, that'ssomething to do that serves
others, not just yourself. Soit's not wishing for a million
dollars or anything like that.

God is so good one good, good answer.

Yeah. So if you're a yoga teacher, generally
that's going to be something ofservice to your community. And
so when you set an intention youwant to grow, you want to be
aware of your own, your ownbehavior, your own tendencies
and how you can, how you canmaybe improve that or direct

(45:13):
that probably is a better wordrather than improved direct that
in a way, that's really, like Iwas saying that drishti the
focus on to what what it is thatyou're, you're here for?

Yes. Nice. You said philosophy. What particular
branch of philosophy Are youdelving into currently?

So I'm delving into the Vedas and the
Upanishads, and the Shiva Sutrasand stuff that I actually don't
know enough about, because likemost yoga teachers, I was
brought up on the on Patanjali,and the Bhagavad Gita and Hatha

(45:55):
practice politica. I think thosewere the three tests. And to be
honest, I didn't think thatthere was much else to, I didn't
realize just how broad and howcomplex your bigger philosophy
is. So I'm really enjoyingdigging a little deeper, and
having a look like I do overhere, having a look over there.

(46:17):
And I'm trying to get someinspiration to write a book. And
my book is going to be somethingvery down to earth about how
yoga teachers can use yogaphilosophy in their classes, but
in a way that's very accessible.
That's not going to boreeveryone. Yeah, yes. You know
what I mean? I do. Yeah, sothere's a lot of, there's a lot

(46:42):
of ideas there, but I haven'tquite, I'm still exploring, and
that might take some time. Butthat's okay. I really enjoy

it nice. Have you putting any words down in
the computer slash paper yet,for the book, I'm still
formulating the outline, or,

I haven't got an outline, because I'm not very
good at outlines. But I willhave to have an outline. At some
point. At this time, I'm justwriting little summaries, and
I'm writing little things thathave inspired me. And from that
I'm writing little blogs, andthen from the blogs, I actually
don't really know where it'sgonna go toward. I think this is

(47:23):
one of those creative thingsthat I'm gonna. I'm gonna see
where it goes. But I do have Ido have my drishti I just don't
know how it's all gonna cometogether. Yes.

What's inside that you have come across in the
reading of either Vedas orapana? Shots? Is there been a
thought or an idea that youpondered that you found useful,
beneficial, enlightening?

Yeah, I was quite surprised that the
Patanjali is actually quitedifferent to all the other to
all the other philosophies thatcame before him like he's his
whole thing about property andparotia. And the separation and
trying to elevate and away from,I didn't actually realize that

(48:10):
that was actually fairly radicalin terms of what came before
that. Because it's more nondualism before he came along.
And I didn't quite understandthat, even though I'd heard a
lot of talk about that I didn'tquite grasp it. So that's been
interesting. And the Upanishadshave been really nice. Because I

(48:36):
had no idea about those littleeach one of them has is, is an
entire thing in its own. So Ididn't realize that I thought
that it was you had to read thewhole thing. But you don't, you
can just pick one little storyand it has its own thing. So
there's a lot in there about theBatman and the the nature of the
soul and where it lives and whatit does and how you harness it.

(48:59):
And you know, it's actuallyquite practical, a lot of that
stuff, surprisingly. So. Yes.
We've the Vedas, you know, theVedas. You sort of think, well,
all that stuff. I mean, no onedoes that stuff. Now. I mean,
who does all those rituals andthose I mean, I'm not saying no
one, of course, there are somepeople in the forest somewhere
doing that, but it's, it's notreally relevant. I don't see the

(49:20):
relevance of all those. I mean,culturally, they're relevant
obviously, when you go to Indiaand when you go to Bali, all
those rituals and all thatthat's what makes the place and
that's what makes it amazing.
But in terms of us as Westernersit's nice to have little
rituals, you know, you have youryour candles and all your

(49:42):
elements and stuff. But to thatdegree that they had in the
Vedas, it's just just seems notvery practical to me.

Yeah. Yeah, that's good observation. I hear
Yeah. I remember someone hadpointed out I took a philosophy
course with Georg Feuerstein andAnd he had mapped out how, say
for example, in the Vedas, therewas a fire ritual where maybe
there would be like a firetender or somebody would be in

(50:11):
charge of keeping the firegoing. And like, anytime I go
camping, and I try to keep myfire going, it's not as easy as
it seems, because I'll fallasleep, or I'll just get tired
and be like, Okay, let's put thefire out. So like, if it was my
job to keep a fire going, andnever let it go out like that
would be a really challengingtask. And, and I liked the idea

(50:35):
of this story line have thepotential of like, say, if
lightning struck prior to ourability to make fire that if we
were able to get fire, we'd wantto keep that fire going. So
that's, that's a reallyinteresting idea. But the
transition from the Vedas wherethere was an external fire, to
the apana, shots started to makethis changeover into keeping

(50:58):
like an internal fire. Andthat's where the idea of top has
started to generate. So then theconcept of well from a yoga
practice, if I can keep my firegoing, internally, like not
necessarily just from Ojaibreathing, and heating up
through Vinyasa or something,but maybe even just my
motivation and inspirationalfire going. That's just as

(51:20):
difficult if not more to keepinga physical fire fire going. Once
I heard that storyline, Ithought, Oh, it's so
fascinating, like, just heat andhow we can apply heat on an
external and an internal level.

Oh, that's beautiful. That's really nice.
How you've put that I think youshould write a book to it.

Well, let's collaborate. Let's work
together. Oh, yes. I need help.
I need major help.

To collaborate. Collaboration is
great. So that's one of thethings that's also come out more
recently, is that idea ofcollaboration with teachers,
which I really like. Yeah,there's a lot more of that
rather than the competition thatwe used to have, which really
doesn't sit well with anyone inthe in the yoga world.

I agree.
Barbara, one thing I remember, Igot like, there was a point I
have a group of yoga teacherfriends that will get together
on Zoom. And we'll just like,what are we? What did you come
across today? Like, what, whathappened in class today, and
we'll just share stories andideas just to keep ourselves
motivated. And I, you know,within this group, there was
this, like, let's stop postingpictures of ourselves doing

(52:31):
poses, and I was like, Well,what the heck else am I gonna
actually take a picture of toconvey? And around that time I
started doing this podcast, andI feel like now I can, like,
I'll be able to put you on myInstagram. You don't I mean,
like, in feature you and I'mhaving more fun featuring other
people? I don't know Do do youfind that too? I think in the
collaboration elements nice.

(52:53):
It's fun to or exciting to liftother people up. Instead of it
always just be about me, me, me,me. Me. Look at me. Look at me
look at my this. Look at mythat, you know, it's just like
after a while it gets so, soboring.

Oh, it's fantastic to lift other people
up. I do that on my YouTube onmy YouTube channel. So I always
interview I try and find peoplethat have something that they
can teach that so it'll bedifferent. You know, that might
interest other yoga teachers,and it's great to prop people. I
mean, isn't that why we'reteachers? Because we want to
help other people. I mean, it'sjust our nature, isn't it?

Barbara? What is your YouTube channel? Your
name?

Yeah, I think it's just Bob record till yoga.

Cool. So on there? Are you doing like
interviews like this? Or are youdoing it with somebody in the
room and conversing? Are youdoing? Are you doing the more
zoom style? Are you doing themin person with people or both?

Most of them have been on Zoom. I've done a
few. Like if I've gone to seesomeone live, but usually I do
them on Zoom. Because it'speople from around the world.
And it's usually I try and keepthem like 20 minutes, half an
hour. So that it's it's doablefor my audience. And usually
it's someone that's doingsomething a little bit

(54:09):
different, or that has somethingto teach other teachers or yeah,
maybe you can come on there.

Well, that'd be great. I'd love to speak in of
20 minutes. We've been on for 52minutes and and sometimes people
will say to me, like Todd, youshould probably do. Well, not
every but I've had critique orfeedback. Like, I just don't
have enough time to listen foran hour. What I always find is
like, I feel like we're justgetting warmed up. Or I mean,
we've been you've been doing agreat job thus far. But like

(54:38):
usually, like it takes an hourto get into some good nitty
gritty conversation. So I hearya, I hear you like the amount
of time like this idea of like,even making like Tic TOCs and
Instagram reels where it's likedon't make them any longer than
five or six seconds and it'slike holy cow. How can I know?

(55:00):
How can I tell the beginning amiddle and an end in five
seconds? But that was somethingthat

I knew on Tik Tok.

I am you know, because I have, I have a nine
year old daughter and a and a 16year old son so, I got on there
before they did so I thoughtthis is a one time Dad's going
to be ahead of these guys withthe curve. So I like I got tick
tock going. Just because I knowyou know, I don't I don't let my
daughter I have a tick tockaccount. Yeah, cuz like at nine

(55:30):
I'm like, Ah, she came in theother day. I was like, Dad, can
I get a Snapchat account? And Idon't have Snapchat. So I was
like, um, I'm like, Well, whoshe's like, well, this friends
on it. This friends on thisother friends on it. So I'm
like, I text one of the friendsmom and I said, Is it true? You
know, is your daughter onSnapchat? And I was like, Oh,
heck no, no way. I'm not lettingmy daughter and I'm like, okay,

(55:53):
Priya. She's not on it. So thatwas not correct information. And
then her other friend or mom waslike, yeah, why? What's wrong?
And I was like, No, No,nothing's wrong. I just want to
get a feeling for what's goingon like and so then I'm like,
Well, let me just go on thereand look and and the first the
homepage came up, and I waslike, oh, no, no, I just can't
let my nine year old daughterget on the same because it was a

(56:14):
lot of like, just booty and justlook at my booty. Look at my
booty. And I know she's gonnaget to that I just, I just just
want to keep her innocent aslong as I can.

Yeah, good luck with that. Advice.

Yeah, yeah.
Good point. Good point. So youhaven't resorted to the booty
shot and the Instagram you'renot you're not gonna go there.
You're not gonna.

I'm not I'm not on Tik Tok because you know
what? Instagram? Yeah. And thenFacebook is more like, just
personal. Yeah, I don't reallylike Facebook. Instagram is way
more than in fact, I've cut downon my instagram at the beginning
of COVID. I was on there everyday. Because I was trying to

(57:05):
build an audience. I had noaudience. Like, I wasn't even
using Instagram. I had anaccount, but I never used it
because I had a life. You know?
Once COVID came along, I had nolife. Instagram became my life.
And so I was posting every dayand I was learning all of this
stuff. Like I did all thecourses and blah blah, was it? I

(57:25):
mean, that's what I'm like, whenI'm into something I'm into.
Yeah. Like I just go for it. Andthat's what I did. I completely
burnt out. So that's the otherthing we fire that you've got to
watch. Going back to theVader's? Yeah.

Yeah. Build it too big and stick your arm in
there. And it hurts. Yeah. Yeah.

That's so I need to watch that. But what was
I saying? Oh, yeah, Instagram.
So I was posting every day. Bythe end of that year, I was
completely wrecked because toomuch time on screen and just the
Instagram thing. And then cutdown I think the second year two
or three times a week. So thatwas a bit more, you know, a bit
less obsessive. And now I'm downto once a week.

Nice. Nice. So maybe next year.

Maybe I'll do once a month. Oh

I hear Yeah. I hear you slow the slow queen,
the slow queen.

And then I see once all night and then once
a month or you might turn the

corner and God that's it. I'm doing twice a
day. Twice. Oh.

Well, the one of my teachers last night I do
improv and my improv teacherdoes a one second video each
day. One second one is hurt herday one. Yeah, but it's still
every day. Still.

It's still a full on commitment. I hear ya

something every day, so I don't I'm gonna
go there even though I love

that's cool.
Barbara. So I'm curious. Can youif we start to turn that corner
toward closing our conversationtogether? Can you Did anything
come up and or not come up thatyou'd like to speak on and or
offer any advice about

now I just want to encourage all the
teachers out there to just stickat it. Take your time. Don't get
caught up in all the the BSthat's out there about what you
should be doing and how much youshould be earning. Just take it
step by step. Keep your day job.
Build your community, build yourconfidence and just be committed

(59:54):
you need to be committed. And ifyou're not committed then and
maybe you just teach part time,just teach a few days here and
there. And, and maybe, you know,maybe that'll last a few years
and maybe you'll do somethingelse. I mean, you know, I think
what happens with yoga is peoplefall in love with it. And it's
like falling in love. Whenyou're in love with someone, you

(01:00:17):
want to be with them all thetime. You know, and it's, it's
the lust, but the lust doesn'tlast. The last sometimes turns
into love. And sometimes thelust just dies out. And that's
fine. You know, that's fine.
Don't hold on to something, ifit's not meant to be enjoyed,

(01:00:38):
enjoy what it is for when it isbut you know, don't stress
yourself out. Because Yoga isnot about being stressed out and
always feeling like you'relacking. You're wonderful. If
you're a yoga teacher, you'rewonderful. You're bringing
beautiful things into the world.
You're helping so many people.
So you're awesome.

Todd McLaughlin (01:00:56):
Beautiful.
That's perfect, Barbara. I loveit. Thank you.

Barbara Courtille (01:01:04):
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure to speak toyou.

I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking
time out of your day. And youdidn't have to get up too early
for me on the other side of theworld. But you are early so
thank you for slotting the timeback a little for me to suit my
schedule. I really appreciateit. I hope that we can
collaborate further in thefuture. Write a book, maybe a

(01:01:28):
screenplay film a movie. Whynot? Why not some acrylic, some
canvas? Watercolor Painting.

Barbara Courtille (01:01:37):
Yeah, I'll do your portrait.

That'd be amazing. All right. I'm down for
that. That sounds cool. Thankyou, Barbara. I look forward to
it. All right, you too. By.
Native yoga podcast is producedby myself. The theme music is
dreamed up by Bryce Allen. Ifyou liked this show, let me

(01:02:03):
know. If there's room forimprovement. I want to hear that
too. We are curious to know whatyou think and what you want more
of what I can improve. And ifyou have ideas for future guests
or topics, please send us yourthoughts to info at Native yoga
center. You can find us atNative yoga center.com. And hey,

(01:02:25):
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Barbara Courtille - Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Barbara Courtille - Helping Yoga Teachers become successful Yoga Professionals