Hillary Kallenberger ~ Yoga, Pain, and Insight: Rewiring Self-Worth and Embracing Change

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Hillary Kallenberger is a dedicated yoga teacher based on the west coast of Florida, known for her transformative approach to body movement and mindfulness. With a rich background in high-level dance performance in New York, Hillary transitioned into yoga and bodywork, combining her passion for movement with a keen understanding of the human body. Previously a licensed counselor, Hilary has excelled in betterment coaching, helping clients achieve holistic wellness. Her recent journey through hip replacement surgery has further deepened her personal insights, enhancing her empathetic and therapeutic approach to teaching yoga and assisting others.

Visit Hillary: https://www.currentmanifestationssrq.com/

Key Takeaways:

• Embracing modern medicine alongside natural healing can be an essential part of recovery, even for those committed to holistic practices.
• Experiencing acute pain can lead to unexpected personal growth and a deeper connection with one's body.
• Self-compassion and asking for help are vital components of healing and personal well-being.
• Practicing gratitude and presence can transform one's relationship with their body and promote holistic healing.

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Episode Transcript

Todd McLaughlin (00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy
you are here. My goal with thischannel is to bring
inspirational speakers to themic in the field of yoga,
massage, body work and beyond.
Follow us at @nativeyoga andcheck us out at
nativeyogacenter.com. All right,let's begin.

Hillary Kallenberger (01:05):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. My name is
Todd McLaughlin. Today I'mbringing back Hillary
Kallenberger. Go listen to herepisode number 204, 20 episodes
ago. This is number 224, soHilary had a hip replacement
surgery. She's a yoga teacher,and the first we planned this, I

(01:30):
had met Hillary prior to hersurgery, and we both thought,
wouldn't it be cool to do apodcast before the hip
replacement and then to do afollow up session so that you
can hear what it entails, whatis it like. And then, obviously,
you might not be thinkinganything about hip replacement,

(01:52):
but there's a good chancethere's some time or some place
in your life where you might berecovering from an injury, an
illness, something challengingin your life. So I think what
Hillary and I are attempting tohighlight here is the journey,
the journey to healing, thejourney through healing, the
healing journey, that's whatwe're trying to do. This is our

(02:18):
goal. This is my intention tohelp make our journeys together,
productive, healing, kind,compassionate and pathetic for
one another. And maybe there'ssomebody in our life that is
going through a healing process,and maybe we could help them a
little bit. Wait till you hearhow much the help that people

(02:41):
gave Hillary lights her up andmade her how it's changed her.
And we could, we can helpothers. And there's going to be
a time where we're going to needask for help too. And so thank
you so much Hillary for joiningme, and thank you listener for
supporting the show. Let's goahead and get started. It is a
great pleasure to be here withHilary kallenberger Again,

(03:03):
Hilary, thank you for joining mefor another episode. I had a
chance to interview you onepisode number 204 that was back
in January, and you and I hadactually formulated a plan at
that time because we had aconversation prior to you having

(03:25):
hip replacement surgery, and nowyou are it's May, and what is
today's date? May 20. So youhave already undergone hip
replacement surgery. So I guessthe purpose, my goal, and I
think we both have the same goalis to talk about the reality of,

(03:45):
I am a yogi, but it is okay toask for help. I am a yogi, and
it is okay to maybe need to usethe Medical Association for
assistance. I am a yogi, or ayogini, who, youknow, wants to
do everything natural, but maybeneeds to do things unnatural, or
is the unnatural approach?
Unnatural? Is that the naturalapproach? Am I looking at the

(04:08):
wrong way? All these questions Iwant to ask you, but before I
know, a little bit of a longintro, how are you feeling
today? How are you doing?
I'm feeling really good. I'mfeeling great, good. Yeah. Well,
lot has happened since we talkedlast. Has happened.

Todd McLaughlin (04:25):
Well, I'd like to hear all about it. How was
the surgery and how's yourrecovery been?

Hillary Kallenberger (04:32):
So the surgery went well. Everything
went fairly you know, asexpected, so to speak. As far as
the outcome, I'm doing reallywell right now. It was
definitely a little morechallenging in in surprising
ways than I had kind ofexpected. The surgery itself

(04:54):
was, you know, kind of in andout. Everything, everything went
as planned. I had theunfortunate. Incident of having
a failed nerve block. So when Iwoke up from surgery, that two
or three days of kind of falsecomfort that people get because
they're numb from the waistdown, I didn't get to experience
that, which made things verychallenging, and also it was

(05:18):
quite a gift, because I had goneinto surgery with the intent
that I was not going to take anypharmaceutical drugs. So, and
that was that kind of acommitment that I had made to
myself for a few differentreasons. I did have them in case
I got into, you know, obviouslya dangerous type situation. You
don't want your pain to get outof control. But I felt fairly

(05:41):
confident in my ability tonavigate this with with the
tools that I have, with thepower of my breath, with being
present. And so it was reallysomething important to me that
and you know, everyone'sdifferent, but for me
personally, I didn't want totake any medication.

Todd McLaughlin (05:58):
Understood so,

Hillary Kallenberger (06:01):
so to my surprise, I woke up and was in
like a 10 out of 10 painimmediately after surgery. So I
didn't get that kind of, youknow, leeway you get well,
that's well, that's wearing off.
I didn't know that at the time.
And so initially when I woke up,I thought, oh my gosh, maybe my
pain tolerance is not as high asI thought it was. And I started

(06:23):
having a lot of kind of selfdoubt and thinking, I don't know
if I can do this if the paingets much worse. Because, you
know, the idea is that the nerveblock wears off and you should
have your pain meds ready on daytwo or three, when that, when
that kicks in. And I thought, ifit gets worse than this, I don't
know that I'm going to be ableto do it. And by day two or

(06:44):
three, when the pain wasn'tgetting worse, then I kind of
had an aha moment, and I waslike, I don't think the nerve
block worked, which I've got ahistory of some similar things
happening. So it wasn't really asurprise, but that made the
first 72 hours very sticky whenit came to the pain that I was
in, I'm very happy to say that Imade it through the entire

(07:06):
recovery without taking anymedication. Congratulations. And
there was a gift that came withthat, which was really being
present with my pain and beingpresent in my body. And that was
sort of one of those, likeunexpected gifts that you don't
realize is a gift until you kindof get through it. Because I was
sitting there going, I don'tknow if I can do this. And then

(07:28):
on day three, it was kind ofthis, like, I'm doing this. It's
happening. I'm doing it, yeah.
And the relationship with mybody through this process,
through this surgery and therecovery has been, I mean, life
changing for me, it's rewired alot of the patterns in my brain.
It's rewired the relationshipthat I have with my body. I had

(07:51):
a lot of awareness that camewith how brutal I had been to my
body for so many years, and thiskind of they so they actually
let me keep my femur head. I'mnot sure if I'm allowed to tell
anyone that, but we just did. SoI talked them into it, and I
said, Can I please keep the bonethat you removed? Because I

(08:13):
really wanted to just keep thatwith me. And when I, you know,
got through the first few days,and was able to really look at
it and see it. It was like, Ohmy gosh. You can literally see
the damage, wow. And it'sreally, it's in really bad
shape. And it made me very,well, very aware of how much
pain I had been carrying for solong, and just how much I had

(08:33):
just been trying to push throughit, power through it, and and it
really, it really changed how Ifelt about my body, instead of
trying to, kind of like, youknow, train my body and push my
body into submission, to reallystart opening up, to allow it to
speak to me through, throughcomfort, to discomfort, and all

(08:54):
the things that come with

Todd McLaughlin (08:56):
it. Wow, I can

Hillary Kallenberger (08:58):
hear it in your voice. Yeah. Nice. Thank
you. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin (09:02):
very cool, amazing. Well, this might be a
personal question, but was partof your reason for wanting to
not utilize the assistance ofpain medication is because of a
past of maybe overusing somesubstance.

Hillary Kallenberger (09:21):
There was a combination. Of factors. So
one was, yes, I have a historyof, you know, addictive
behaviors in all kinds ofrealms, and so I definitely
didn't want to go down that pathof, you know, getting into
something that I couldn't getmyself out of. I didn't want to
experience the physical sideeffects that often come with,
with taking medication, I didn'tlike the idea of putting

(09:44):
potential toxins in my body,that that my body was going to
have to work even harder toclear itself of and detox from,
because I was already detoxingfrom the anesthesia. And you
know, some of the things thathad already happened, the trauma
of of being cut open and. Imoved around and all of that. So
it to me, it felt like one more,one more block to healing and

(10:08):
and then the other thing wasthat I really wanted to be able
to do it. I really wanted to. Ikind of knew subconsciously that
this was an opportunity to healthe relationship with my body. I
just didn't realize how that wasgoing to happen. And so I think
that was, that was part of it aswell. And I will not lie, there
were a couple times when Ilooked over at that orange
prescription bottle and Ithought, Should I, you know,

(10:31):
because it was, I was veryuncomfortable. It was, it was
really rough. And and then Ijust kept going, Nope. You don't
want to be anxious, you don'twant to be constipated, you
don't like, do you want to feelall those things, plus the
discomfort? I was like, No, Ican do it. I can do it. So nice.
So, yeah, so that was, there wasa lot of reasons for that, but,
but it was something that I hadcommitted to before, and that

(10:52):
was the other thing is, I hadmade a commitment to myself, and
part of that relationship withmyself was honoring the
commitments that I make to me.

Todd McLaughlin (11:00):
Wow, very cool.
Congratulations. How has your Idon't want to assume that
everybody listening to you and Inow have listened to Episode
204, but just to give a realquick, brief re analysis for the
listener, for you. Listener isHillary, is a yoga teacher, and
she lives on the west coast ofFlorida, and she's been

(11:22):
practicing dance for a reallylong time at a high level in New
York, and then got into yoga andbody work. And you're also a
licensed counselor. I believe doI have that previous licensed
counselor, but still workingwith people and clientele to
improvement, betterment,coaching, working with yoga. So

(11:43):
you've had a long history ofbody movement awareness, and
then had this incredible hippain and decided to go ahead and
have the surgery. So that's areal quick synopsis. You
probably could have done itbetter than me, Hillary, but I
figure out at least so thoselistening will have some idea
who I'm talking to, but I guess,I guess I should let you tell

(12:06):
your story. Can you fill in afew gaps there that I missed?
And I know it's like, how manyyears have you lived? How do you
fill in all those years and timeand all the gaps? But what are a
few key gaps that I missed thatyou think are important for
questions that are coming about,how you've what your
relationship to self now lookslike, and how you see that

(12:27):
evolution

Hillary Kallenberger (12:30):
well, so I'll kind of touch on a few
things you said. So I was adancer up until my early 20s,
and then sprinkled a little bitbeyond that. So I was very, hard
on my body. I was in a veryperformance oriented arena.
Also, you know, my home life wasa little performance oriented as
well. So it's very hard onmyself. I was a perfectionist

(12:51):
and and developed, you know, ahistory of things like
addiction, eating disorders.
Really had a challengingrelationship with my body, and
never felt I was good enough. Isought wanting to help others,
you know, and so I think I wassubconsciously trying to heal
myself through my work as acounselor. I then became a
fitness instructor, a yogainstructor, personal trainer.

(13:12):
Started doing body work and andreally started working with
others in that capacity, whichin turn helped me, you know,
kind of navigate things formyself, but I was always kind of
up in my head. You know, I knewthe things to do, but I never
felt it in my physical body. Iknew that my thinking was was
off, and so I was always tryingto convince myself to change my

(13:34):
mind, but I was never reallyfeeling that sense of love for
myself, of comfort in my body. Iwas talking to a friend just
before, before we got on today,and one of the big shifts that
has happened for me is, and Ithink a lot of people will maybe
relate to this, especially ifyou've, you know, had any kind
of body dysmorphia or disorderedeating type stuff, is that, you

(13:55):
know, I wake up in the morningnow and I don't assess my body
and how it looks based on myworth for the day, and that is
huge. When you've been livingyour whole life that way. As far
as how you look your size, arepeople going to accept me? Did I
eat too much last night? Oh mygosh, I'm fat. All these weird,

(14:16):
crazy messages that we imprintin our brain are gone. And the
experience that I had by goingthrough this, you know, induced
chosen trauma, right? And goingthrough the pain and the
literally having to learn how towalk again, which was very
humbling, because I did have alot of pain. I think I might
have had more pain than somepeople I've talked to have

(14:39):
experience. And for me, I didn'twalk out of there. It took me
days to really be able to bearweight on my leg. It took me
even more days to walkunassisted, you know, where I
could take a full step. And itwas very humbling, and it made
me realize how much I had takenmy body for granted and being
able. Able to dance across thestage and being able to, you

(15:01):
know, do all these advancedquote moves in yoga and my
flexibility and my strength, andall these things that I, you
know, I'd always worked for, butI had also taken for granted
that that was part of who I was,right? So that was just
ingrained in identity, and I hadto really shed those layers of
like, Well, who am I if I'mnever able to move that way

(15:22):
again? Like, does that reallychange who I am and my worth?
Or, you know, who am I at adeeper level? And those weeks
after surgery really gave me anopportunity to sit with that, to
examine that, to be with mypain, to look at my body in a
way that, you know, I'm actuallyfeeling what I say to others,

(15:43):
which is like, you know,honoring your body is a vessel
that that gets you aroundthrough this life and all the
things that it does do for usand um, and I was back, I got
back on my yoga mat on day 13,and my Physical body was not
ready for that, but I really Ineeded that. I needed to
remember what my yoga practicewas about. And it wasn't about

(16:07):
being able to, you know, to do acomplicated pose, right? But it
was really about being incommunity and breathing and
honoring where I was. And Iwanted to set an example for my
students, and I wanted to showup, so I showed up every day. As
soon as I was able to drive, Ishowed up on my mat, and I did
what I could do, and I walked inthere with a cane and and there

(16:28):
was a lot of things that Icouldn't do, but, but, you know,
one day at a time, things goteasier. Things got better. You
know, I invested in thepractice, and I would say that
now my practice is is betterthan it's been in two years,
because I've rebuilt thestrength in the way that my body
needed, instead of trying topush through pain and work

(16:50):
around it all the time.

Todd McLaughlin (16:52):
Wow, wow, that's amazing. Hillary, holy
cow, so cool. Yeah, yeah, Imean, I love hearing all this,
because I, you know, I'm just socurious. And I think what's most
impressive to me is it seems, orit sounds to me, like you going

(17:15):
through the pain really had aprofound effect on you. Like,
it's, maybe, maybe you're right,like it actually rewired a few
wirings that need to be rewired.
That's very

Hillary Kallenberger (17:29):
humbling.
You know, it's very humbling toto need that kind of assistance,
to not be able to really do muchfor yourself initially, and to
really drop into a sense ofgratitude for what what we can
do, instead of having the focusbe on what is not good enough,
right? And so it shifts you fromthat lack state of like, oh, I,

(17:50):
you know, I didn't, I couldn'tbalance today on my left leg.
I'm a terrible person, whichhopefully nobody thinks that,
but to a place like, Oh my gosh.
Like, I would celebrate theselittle joys. Like, I remember
the first time I was able to,like, cross my leg over into an
eagle shape, and I looked at myfriend who was was instructing

(18:10):
the class, and we kind of, like,saw each other, like, I'm doing
it. And it was this moment ofjust like, it's happening,
because I just keep trying, youknow, I just keep putting forth
the effort and showing up. And Ithink that says a lot about what
we know, the power of yoga andshowing up for yourself every
day, and that that was really, Imean, I've always showed up for

(18:31):
yoga, but showing up for myselfin a different way, when I
didn't look the way that, youknow, maybe a yoga teacher
should look, or I wasn't doingthings in the way that I was
accustomed to doing them. And itwas, it was just a very humbling
experience of, you know, even,you know, I couldn't get down
and up off the floor sometimes.
I mean, you know, there was justsome, some real challenges. And
the mobility and flexibilityhas, it's, it's a process. So

(18:53):
talk about being with theprocess. You know, we want to
heal as fast as possible. Andwe're like, When can I do this
again? You know, we're lookingfor like, what's when am I going
to be able to stand on this leg?
Or when can I get my leg into afigure four and? And it's like,
it's, it's a day to day thing.
And some days I'm like, Oh, wow,look, I've got some really nice

(19:15):
mobility today. And some days,my hip still gets a little stiff
and tight, and that being okay,because it just is where it is
right now. So the process reallyallowed me to practice being
more present and developappreciation for what I can do,
instead of worrying so muchabout what's not working the way

(19:36):
that I want it to, which is, youknow, part of life, right? Isn't

Todd McLaughlin (19:41):
amazing. Do you think you could have come to
this realization without havingto have to go through all of
this?

Hillary Kallenberger (19:48):
Um, I mean, I would like to think that
eventually, maybe, you know,because these are things that
I've been working towards, youknow, it's like I I want to be
more present. I want to live ingratitude. I want all these
things, and I'm always I'malways aiming towards that, but
I think this experienceliterally swept me off my feet,
and was like You asked for it.
Here you go. You you want. Youwant these things. Let me give

(20:12):
you a direct path to gratitude,but a direct path to humility
and a direct path to learninghow to be graceful through your
suffering and and have a mindsetthat is not that is not of a
victim, or is not of a woe isme. Why did this happen to me?
But really as a gift like thisis giving me all of these tools,

(20:34):
all of this insight that I wouldhave never had otherwise, and
one of the biggest gifts forfrom a yoga teacher perspective,
is, you know, I mean, we knowthe things. We know how to teach
modifications, and, you know, welearn all those things, but
there's really something to besaid about experiencing
something firsthand in your ownbody. And you know, the first

(20:55):
bit of time when I could notreach down to touch my toes. It
was kind of like, oh, that'swhat it feels like to not be
able to reach your toes. Like,it's not will, it's not that I'm
not flexible. It's like my bodyis not moving that way today for
whatever reason. And so becauseI had to get really creative in

(21:18):
my practice, because I was like,Oh, well, I can't do that. What
could I do that would kind ofsimulate that or get the same
thing out of it, but create adifferent shape that's safe for
my body. It really helped me asa yoga instructor. Think outside
the box of, what could I offermy students who are struggling
with limitations?

Todd McLaughlin (21:36):
Yes, isn't that amazing? Yeah.

Hillary Kallenberger (21:40):
I mean, so cool. I was like, I'm learning
so much right now. Yeah,

Todd McLaughlin (21:44):
and now someone comes in, it's not just
necessarily hip replacement, butsomebody comes into your class
and says, I have a have a reallybad shoulder, I have a really
bad neck, I have a really thisthing going on. And I feel like
you probably have moreunderstanding of pain. You were
in pain, but it sounds like thepain that you went through post

(22:06):
surgery was a little more acute.
Would you say, like the painthat you had in your hip kind of
building up to the hipreplacement? I mean, I would say

Hillary Kallenberger (22:15):
the pain I had in my hip building up, was
definitely a chronic pain thatwas very uncomfortable. I would
say that the pain post surgerywas an entirely different kind
of pain, and it was more like,you type a step, take a step,
and you're like, oh my gosh,like, it was such a deep pain,
versus kind of a wear and tearpain. And then what's
fascinating is, as the healingprocess, you know, took place,

(22:37):
I'm now at the point that I haveless pain than I've had in
probably two years, if I'm beinghonest, like and I forget, and
that's the interesting partabout how we wire ourselves.
Because, you know, it used to bethat I'd get up off the floor,
or if I'd been down to picksomething up, I'd lean to my
left and bypass my hip. It justbecame a habit. And now I last

(23:00):
night, I went down to unplug alight, and I leaned to my left.
I'm like, wait a minute. I don'thave to do that anymore. I can
literally fold forward withouthaving to compensate. And so,
you know, even just like, wow,oh my gosh, I can't believe that
that I did that for so long. Andyou know, so many people say
their only regret about, youknow, having a hip replacement
is they wish they would havedone it sooner, amen. I mean, if

(23:23):
I would have really listenedsooner and explored that before
it became a dire need. You know,my recovery might have been a
little easier too, because Iwent into it with a lot of
damage. So, you know, it wasn'treally elective in that sense,
and that I had a lot of thingsthat were flared up, well, you
worked on me, flared up andtight and and constricted that
had probably been that way formany years. So part of my

(23:45):
recovery was actually gettingmuscles to come back online that
weren't just dormant becausethey had been sliced from
surgery, but they had beendormant for years. So it really
took a lot to kind of, you know,get things moving again in the
way I needed them to.

Todd McLaughlin (24:01):
What is the journey like in relation to
building up to the either thedistance or the amount of time
spent walking? Where? Where areyou at currently, with the
ability to walk in terms ofdistance or the amount of time,
and before you start to feellike, oh, I should probably sit
down, because I feel like I'mexhausted or super achy,

Hillary Kallenberger (24:22):
um, I would say so the process of that
was interesting. I every day Iset a goal for myself. Um, day
one was to take a shower. Daytwo was to go outside and get
fresh air. I mean, very smallgoals that I knew I could do.
Um, you know, I was on a walkerfor a bit, barely bearing

(24:42):
weight, and then I started toget more comfortable with that.
And then I moved to my cane. Andthen my my first, my first real
steps without cane assistance.
It was like, okay, my goaltomorrow is to take five steps,
and then the next day it was 10steps. And so I just baby
stepped my way up. Up, and thenit got to where, okay, I can
walk around the block beforethings start to seize up a

(25:04):
little bit, I would say, now,and that was just progressive.
And there's some days that arebetter than others. Based on,
you know, if I've been on my matand everything's nice and loose,
I would say I would probablyeasily be able to walk as far as
I really wanted to, withinreason, I've definitely been out
on like I went on a walk theother day. It was probably an
hour, 15, hour and a half, and Iforgot I even had a new hit. I

(25:28):
mean, I was just out walking toenjoy it. So there are days
where I feel a little off, andI'm kind of like, okay, this
feels a little cranky. And, youknow, and so, but, but what I do
different now, is I stop

Todd McLaughlin (25:42):
Nice? Yeah, you're, you're listening to your
body. Yeah. Is that a huge shiftfrom where you were before, back
in your old days?

Hillary Kallenberger (25:49):
It's a huge shift. And, you know, and
so through this process, I'veelectively given up running,
which was, you know, part ofwhat contributed to the damage
in my hip, and also part ofwhat, even though it's a healthy
exercise, it became an unhealthypattern for me because of the
way I viewed it, because if Ididn't run again, I would judge

(26:10):
myself and my worth for the day,so I would get up in the
mornings, and it's like I had togo get my run in, almost to be
okay, and and I saw that as apattern. It was one of those
things, just like addiction,like, I know this isn't good,
but I'm not sure how to stop.
And getting a new hip gave methat gift as well. It's like,
okay, we're just going to forceyou to stop. We're going to, you
know. And so I remember sittingin bed one day going, Okay, what

(26:32):
would be the reasons to go backto running? Like, what good
reasons can I come up with? AndI couldn't come up with anything
that I couldn't do in adifferent way, you know, mental
health benefits so I can stillmove my body. I'm not going to
blow up and turn into an obesehuman because I'm not getting
out and running every day.

(26:54):
There's other ways to, you know,enjoy my body, be present, have
a healthy mindset. I definitelydon't want to put any more
damage on my body. I don't wantto end up doing another hip or
my knee. So why would I likepush myself into a space that
would be potentially dangerous?
And you know, if I look at mylife, I mean, I spent over 20
years as a dancer, another 20years as a runner, I feel like

(27:15):
I've done those things, andmaybe it's time to do some
gentler things. And so now,like, my main source of movement
has really become my yogapractice. Not that it wasn't
always just as big in my life,but now it's kind of like the
thing that I go to every day,and then I'll go for a walk, or,
you know, I might get on my bikefor a little bit. I just kind of

(27:36):
started that, but, um, but Idon't feel the need to get out
there and prove anything toanyone, including myself, which
is really big. Because, youknow, it used to be like, Okay,
I need to walk X amount of hoursand this amount to feel like
I've done, you know, I paid mydues for the day to my body, and

(27:56):
now it's like, or I could just,you know, I mean, I'm very
movement oriented, but I canalso enjoy a day off and just
sit in the sunshine or float inthe water, or, you know, and
those are just as healing and ashealthy in different ways that
aren't chronic abuse.

Todd McLaughlin (28:15):
Yeah, do you find you're laughing a little
bit at yourself now, or are yougiving space to understand you
were or are the way you arebecause of certain situations.
And therefore, like, sometimes Ido that, I laugh at myself,
like, Wow, look how much I'vechanged. That's kind of funny,
that I had to be that way. Butthen I look at like, Well, why
am I the way I'm well, oh, thatwas a little rough. Okay, it

(28:37):
makes sense why I'm the way Iam. And it's an interesting what
a journey, what an amazing

Hillary Kallenberge (28:43):
definitely, yeah, I definitely honor that
part of myself that was that wastaking on whatever I was taking
on to survive, because it's allI knew when I knew that right? I
mean, I knew something didn'tfeel right, and this helped. So
let's do that right, even if Ilook back is at my past
addictions, right? I was justtrying to soothe the pain and to

(29:07):
make it through, you know, eventhough what I was doing was was
self destructive, and it really,it really plays into, you know,
the the abuse of my body aswell, in that I was doing these
things, thinking I was doing theright thing. We're in survival
mode, right? And being able tolay all that down and having

(29:27):
literally a forced time out ofbeing able to really assess
well, like, who am I? Am I lessvaluable because I didn't get in
a run? Am I less valuablebecause, you know, my body
doesn't look a certain way, orI'm not as fit as I possibly
could be, or I'm not, you know,doing every advanced posture in

(29:48):
yoga, versus like, who am I?
Just for being here, for justshowing up and sharing space
with someone and and justexisting in this body. And maybe
that's just enough to just. Justto just be,

Todd McLaughlin (30:01):
yeah, great.
Well said. Hillary, were thereany acts of compassion from
either students at the studioand or people around you that
you have in your life thatreally touched you and or made
you not that emotional, would bethe only outcome. But did you
have any like moments where youwere just like, Wow, you are so
kind. Thank you. It's

Hillary Kallenberger (30:23):
actually making me emotional, just
thinking about it, coming backto the to the gratitude. And you
know, this was a lesson that Iknew one of my best friends
going into surgery, she said tome, she was now Hillary, don't
be all tough. And, you know,like letting people do things
for me and help me, because I dolive alone. I did have a lot of

(30:49):
friends here that pitched in inall kinds of different ways to
get me there, to get me home, tomake sure I was safe and and I
have so much gratitude for that,because I didn't have any family
with me through this journey. Mydaughter was actually supposed
to fly out the third day to staywith me a couple days, and she
got really sick the night beforeher flight, and had to cancel.

(31:12):
And I almost feel like that waskind of divinely orchestrated as
well, to allow me to reallyreceive help from people who
were doing it, not out ofobligation, but out of the
goodness of their hearts, and itwas like feeling like a little
army just kind of showed up. Imean, I had, you know, a couple
of friends that were like, okay,when is your When are your
physical therapy appointments?
This this one I can take you tothis one I can't. And making

(31:35):
sure I had everyone, I needpeople who are like, I want to
help bring you food or whatever.
I had one friend and client whojust was like, one of the such a
huge blessing. But he stopped byone day just to check on me, and
I think, bring me some asmoothie or some food or
something. And he went to put itin my fridge, and he said he

(31:57):
looked in there, and he said,Oh, she needs food. Because it
was just kind of empty, becauseI was just like, letting people
bring things as I was hungry.
And, you know, you're not thathungry the first few days after
surgery, yeah, and, um, heliterally had food delivered to
me every single night for like,a week and a half or something.
Wow, like every night, fresh,organic, clean food showed up at
my house, catered to the thingsthat I eat and don't eat. It was

(32:20):
so thoughtful. It was so like,it just touched my heart so
much, because it was, it wasjust one of those things that,
like, you're seeing the valueand, you know, and that's
important to me. Putting good,clean food in my body to help
heal is important, right? So youdon't want to just like, grab
what's what's on the shelf, or abag of nuts, which I had backups
and things like that. So, yeah,I had plenty of people

(32:43):
delivering food, a couple peoplesending gift cards, bringing by
flowers. You know, the best giftI got was just time spent.
People willing to just comeover, even if they had 15
minutes just to sit with me andjust to spend time with me.
Because, you know, when you'relaid up in bed and you're really
uncomfortable, and you've gotlike, you know, 20 staples down
your hip, and you can't get intoa comfortable position just

(33:05):
having, like, a little bit oflight, of being able to laugh
with someone or distract you alittle bit, you know, from from
kind of what you're what you'resitting in, knowing that it's
not ending anytime soon, wasjust, was just such a huge
blessing. So I was, I was verymade aware of just how loved I
am.

Todd McLaughlin (33:26):
That's so cool.
Would you had made mentionedwhen we recorded the first
podcast? It was about two weeksor more that we recorded it
prior to surgery, and then Ithink I released the podcast
either the day of your surgeryor day after before, something
like that. And so, like, rightbefore we started recording

(33:47):
today, you had made mention thatyou were able to listen to the
you prior to as the you after.
What was that like? So

Hillary Kallenberg (33:58):
interesting?
Yeah, I think it came out theday after surgery, or the day
of, and I know that I was newlyrecovering in my bed listening
to myself talk about what Ithought was going to happen,
which is always so funny, youknow, to go back and listen to
anything think we know, becausewe never know what we know until
we know it right. But, and justkind of the expectations that I
had going in, and, you know, Idid really prepare for surgery.

(34:20):
I my mindset was I'm trainingfor surgery, so in the gym, in
my diet, in my sleep, justgetting my body like in the
optimum position that I could,you know, and I felt very solid
in my choice. I knew that I wasdoing what I needed to do. I
kind of had a plan like, this ishow it's going to happen, and

(34:40):
this is how it's going to godown. And I've got everything in
place, which is the old medefinitely like, planning and
controlling and and then youknow what happens. And you're
like, um, I can't get my legonto the bed. Like, like, I
can't, like, you know, took myfriend 40 minutes to get me to
the. Car and in the car, becausethere was just so much pain. I

(35:01):
was like, Wow. I didn't reallyexpect it to be like this. Yeah.
So it was, it was interestinglistening to kind of what I
thought was going to happen,because I wanted it to be that
way, and then accepting life asit is, right on life's terms,
which is like, well, it's goingto be like this instead, and and
it's not going to be easybreezy, because there's all

(35:24):
these factors that I wouldn'texpect, that I would have, you
know, to not have a nerve blockand that normal quote experience
that others have. And so it wasall kind of like, okay, this is
not, this is not how I plannedit, and then having to adapt and
all of that. So yeah, it wasreally kind of, it was
interesting listening listeningback to it again. In fact, I

(35:44):
should listen to it again now,right now that I quote
recovered, and see what I thinkabout what I said. Now,

Todd McLaughlin (35:51):
I agree. I think, well, the one thing I'm
picking up is just like, yousound so happy. So it's like,
not that you weren't happybefore, but I can, I can hear
it. I'm curious. Um, sometimesin the process of getting ready
for something like this, therepotentially would be the thought
like, Well, how am I gonnaafford this? Like, how I'm a

(36:12):
yoga teacher, I survive. I liveoff of the my work. And I don't
know, you don't have to explain,like your financial situation,
but I'm curious. I know formyself, if I knew I needed to
take eight weeks off, my firstthought is, I can't step away
from work for eight weeks.
There's no way. How would I dothat? How would I so I'm just

(36:33):
curious. Can you speak a littlebit about what that was like for
you and how it worked out ornot, and how you're feeling
about that currently?

Hillary Kallenberger (36:44):
Yeah, I mean, that's obviously in our
industry, anytime we don't work,that becomes a financial
challenge at times, right? Andand, you know, most of us aren't
in a situation where we get paidtime off being a yoga
instructor, anything else, andwe work for money. So
definitely, the time off was achallenge. I definitely had to

(37:04):
ask for some support from somedifferent places, not only to
pay for the surgery, right?
Because even though I havedecent insurance, there's still
you're putting money out ofpocket to get these things done.
You're buying things that youmight not have thought of
buying, like, you know, multipleice packs and, like, you know,
spending a lot of money on foodbecause you can't cook it, so
you're ordering it out, or, youknow, different things like

(37:26):
that, which was why so manyblessings were from coming from
people around me. I wasbasically fed the whole time, so
I had no food expenses. And thatwas amazing. And then I was back
to teaching on day 13, wow,

Todd McLaughlin (37:42):
you see, you went back and taught them 13
days so with

Hillary Kallenberger (37:46):
as soon as they let me drive, I was back to
teaching. Now I was, I was inwith a cane, and I sat in a
chair. But, you know, and that'sanother thing that you know I
have, you know, I love to cueand I love to verbally teach, to
be able to really watch andwitness my class and not be
distracted by the own thingsthat I want to demonstrate or
whatever. So I was very blessedto not only be able to do that,

(38:12):
like physically be able to driveand because that was kind of the
thing, as soon as I feel safedriving, I'll come back to
teaching and the studio ownerswhere I teach. I mean, they were
all like, well, it's up to you,but I'm also very blessed that
they were open to that, youknow, to have me come in and
need some help and make somemodifications. And, you know,

(38:32):
there are some things that thatI needed to ask for help with,
like, I can't reach that. Ican't do this, but I can do
this. And so I was back toteaching, like I said, within
two weeks. Obviously, Ty took awhile to get back to, just
because, obviously the mobilityfactor, being able to get up and
down off the ground, and then itjust was a slow process, because

(38:53):
I took time off so my individualclients, you know, I think maybe
I started seeing some of myregular clients around three
weeks. By four weeks I wasdoing, I was doing pretty good,
and I would say that by so I gotdischarged by my surgeon at two
months, so a month early. And hebasically, you know, after what

(39:16):
I went through, which felt likea lot, but he basically said, he
said, You're a poster child fora hip replacement. Good job on
doing all the hard work. Call meif you need me. So I felt really
good about the work that I putin, even though it felt grueling
at times. Yeah, I kept showingup. I kept going to the gym. I
kept getting on the stationarybike, you know, I did the PT
exercises. I took the steps Imade myself go take, even if it

(39:39):
was 10 steps a day. I got on myyoga mat, even if it was
modified. And I think there'ssomething to be said about the
balance between trusting ourbody's ability to heal and also
putting in the work to make ithappen.

Todd McLaughlin (39:52):
Great point.
That's a huge one, right? How doyou get somebody who doesn't
want to do the work to do thework? I. Yeah. I mean, do you
have an answer for that?

Hillary Kallenberger (40:03):
Well, I mean, I think that that's,
that's another thing that we,that we face is, you know, we,
we all want solutions. And, youknow, kind of we talked about in
the first episode, as far as,you know, traditional medicine.
And sometimes we're seeking it,because really, that is the best
solution for whatever we'refacing or dealing with. But
sometimes people look tomedicine because they want a

(40:25):
quick fix, and they don't wantto do the work. They want to
take a pill, or they just wantsomebody to fix their pain, or
they just want it to stop. Andso I think realizing that it's
the work that you pin it put in,in combination with the choices
you make that get you theresults. And I don't know how
you make somebody, how you bringthat awareness to somebody? For

(40:46):
me, I mean, like I said, I triedto lead by example, by by
showing up for yoga and being inthe gym and, you know, coming in
on my cane, and people like,what are you doing here? I was
like, I gotta move my legs. Iwant to heal. Like, I don't want
to just be, you know, I want tobe back to whatever 100% is. It
might not be what I was before,but 100% of my capacity, which

(41:08):
means I can only know that if Iif I do the work, and I take
ownership and responsibility,not only for how I got here, but
what I can do, you know, to movethe needle forward. And I'm very
grateful that I have a lot oftools to do that, and a lot of
knowledge where you know noteveryone does

Todd McLaughlin (41:23):
very cool. Have you had any flashes of
inspiration because of this,that of a new class you want to
start a new direction, to takeyour therapeutic modalities? Has
you? Have you had any grandinsight of like, oh my gosh, now
I know what I'm going to doagain. I knew I know what I'm

(41:43):
going to do.

Hillary Kallenberger (41:44):
Yeah, yes and no. I mean, I still feel
really happy with all the thingsthat I am doing. I definitely
have more compassion and moreappreciation for some of my
students and clients who arestruggling with chronic pain in
their bodies, and so that hasbecome kind of an empathetic
focus. Like, Hey, I know whatyou're going through. Let's,

(42:05):
let's get together. Like pushingthat a little bit more. I think
I can help you. I think I cangive you some insight. But I do,
I do have a little bit of aninspiration to create some you
know, I guess we'll saysequences working around
different body parts, differentlimitations. Like, okay, well,

(42:26):
what, what kind of practicecould we could we offer somebody
who's limited from, you know,the waist down or one leg? What
kind of practice could we offersomeone who's limited in in
their arms? And how can we makethat just as yummy as what we're
experiencing when we can do thefull spectrum of movement? Yeah?

(42:49):
So that's been, that's been kindof a, you know, just an inkling
of an inspiration. Nothing thatI've like jumped into and
carried forward. But I do feellike because of my experiences
and some limitations and workingaround it, I'm like, Okay, I
think there's something. I thinkthere's something here. And I
will say this in teaching, I'vebecome a little more aggressive,

(43:12):
I guess we'll say in reallymaking sure that my my students
are dumping into their joints.
And I've always kind of been abit of a stickler when it comes
to hyper mobile students,because I've experienced that,
but now, especially when I seepeople in these really deep
lunges, or, you know, thingslike that, it's like, almost
like, I feel my hip crunchinginside, you know, I'm like, I we
need to create space. We need tostrengthen and create the space

(43:34):
around the joints. And so I amkind of, you know, jokingly,
every once in a while, I'll, youknow, ask someone to pull out of
their lunge and and engage more,and I'll be like, you don't want
to be like me. Like, you knowwhat? I mean, you know, let's
build the strength so you don'tend up in a situation where
you're like, oh my gosh, Ididn't know. I don't want to be
the reason leading that theydidn't know.

Todd McLaughlin (43:57):
Great point, what forms of external
inspiration. Did you draw fromin relation to music,
literature, art? Did you did youneed to do some reading? Was
there some YouTube videos? Whatwas the kind of thing that you
found yourself going TO to justkeep that fire lit, to show up

Hillary Kallenberger (44:22):
like during recovery, yeah, yeah, I
did a lot of journaling, whichis something that I do, but I
was really consistent about it.

Todd McLaughlin (44:32):
What did you notice? What did you notice with
journaling? How has journalingchanged your life?

Hillary Kallenberger (44:39):
To me. It just moves energy through me. It
gets things that are kind ofswirling up in my head, and
allows me to kind of process itthrough. And a lot of times I
don't even really it's not thatI don't know what I'm writing,
but it just kind of comes as astream of consciousness. And
then before that, I know whatthe page has ended and I just
turn the page and wait for thenext day and it. Kind of like

(45:00):
just a way to move some energythrough and sometimes different
things come up with that. It wasreally interesting. The first
week, maybe two weeks, I didn'twant any stimulation at all. I
didn't want to I never turnedthe television on. I didn't
watch any videos. I didn't wantto read a book. All I did was I

(45:22):
had, like, my red light on. Ilaid in my bed, I turned on
frequency Healing Music, and Ireally just focused on
breathing. And I was just thatwas the most still and present
I've probably ever been in mywhole life. And there was just
something that was like, No, Idon't want a lot of stimulation.
Probably my nervous systemsaying, like, we've got a lot
going on, like, let's just bestill.

Todd McLaughlin (45:42):
Did you feel like you needed to do that to
cope with the pain? I

Hillary Kallenberger (45:46):
think it was a lot of it was coping with
the pain. I think I just reallycouldn't handle anything beyond
the sensations that I wasexperiencing. Because for me, it
was a lot. And again, like Iquestioned my pain tolerance.
I'm like, I don't know. MaybeI'm not that tough until I kind
of got through it and I'm like,No, that was a lot. I was
dealing with a lot of pain.

Todd McLaughlin (46:07):
Did the pain trigger any past traumatic event
scenarios for you?

Hillary Kallenberger (46:14):
Not specifically, any scenarios, but
I would say that it just kind ofbrought up my history as a
whole, like I kind of mentionedbefore. It really made me so
aware of just how unkind I'vebeen to myself, how many

(46:35):
situations I've put myself lastin instead of first, how often
I've sacrificed my needs forother people, achievements,
whatever it kind of just waslike, I mean, there was kind of
a morning that happened, like,kind of a morning of of of of a
girl who was really struggling,and it just brought all of that

(46:59):
To my awareness. And you know,just being in that pain, and
also how many times I had reallyfelt alone in my life, to deal
with things on my own, whether Iwas or not, just how I felt,
that I had to do it all. I hadto manage it all, carry it all,
and sitting with all that painthat nobody can take away,

(47:21):
definitely triggered that senseof like, okay, here I am. I'm on
my own, but I can change thatinput and say, but I've got a
million people who have offeredto help, and so my job is to
reach out, to connect withpeople, and to say, I need
something. Can you help me andbe willing to receive the help

(47:43):
that's given, and also to sayno, if it's like, I don't really
need that today, but thank youanyway, and to really advocate
for myself and my needs. Andthat kind of comes back to
changing the relationship I hadwith myself, which is that I'm
worthy of people chipping in andhelping me along. You know, I
don't have to do it all aloneall the time. Wow.

Todd McLaughlin (48:05):
Amazing.
Hillary. Amazing, yeah, yeah,that's so cool. Has there been
anything that has happenedrecently that you are witnessing
that you that because of thatshift of always putting yourself
last, which is a very humblething, which we were all taught
from children, we should puteveryone else first. And you

(48:26):
know, in that way, that's howwe, you know, can take care of
everybody and have everyone bein a happy, healthy place. But
have you noticed any sort ofdecisions that you've made of
late that has been affected bythis realization, for example, I
don't know, like any situationwhere you were overextending
yourself and realize, you knowNo, I'm gonna say no tonight.

(48:49):
Thank you very much. See youtomorrow. Has there been
something recently that caughtyour attention?

Hillary Kallenberger (48:56):
Honestly, I would say, like everything, I
would say that it is really andagain, it was something I'd been
working on, but this really likewhen I just started saying, I've
got to take care of myselffirst, and then I will give
whatever I can give from thatplace, it has enabled me to set
better boundaries with withfamily, with friends, with

(49:18):
situations like, No, I don'tThink I really want to do that.
And what I've really noticed,though, is when I've when I
choose myself, and not even justchoosing, like, putting myself
before someone else, but valuemyself like, know my worth and
know that I'm I'm worthy of justbeing here and just sitting here
and without having to perform ordo anything for anybody. It's

(49:42):
like all of this stuff, all ofthis abundance, just kind of
keeps rolling in, like it'sfrom, from tiny, beautiful
moments where someone sayssomething just so beautiful and
kind to me, where I feel so muchlove, maybe because I'm just
open to hear it and receive itnow, to literal shifts in
people's. Behavior and the waythat they've interacted with me,

(50:03):
like they're respecting myboundaries, because they can
just feel my energy has shifted.
And so it's interesting. It'skind of like everything kind of
has when I've chosen me, life ischoosing me. You know, instead
of me having to be out theretrying to make things happen,
I'm just like leaning into thisspace of of trust, and things
are kind of just workingthemselves out. Wow. And it's a

(50:23):
really lovely place to be. You

Todd McLaughlin (50:27):
know, when you said it's okay for me to just
sit here and be and I don't haveto come out and entertain, and
then I had a flash of imaginingyou from your dance days and
being in that higher performancecompetitive level of everything
is about me performing for you,so that you hopefully will like

(50:49):
me. And then that non stopperformance aspect would just be
so grueling, and I can see whatyou're saying. That makes really
good sense, actually. I mean, Ifall into that same belief trap
that I have to constantlyentertain, and so I'm
appreciating hearing what you'resaying to help me to feel the

(51:14):
same way, like, just, just, it'sokay just to be like, Yeah, I'm
okay where I'm at, and I don'thave to constantly it's fun to
entertain. But do I have to doit for my sense of self worth,
or can I do it simply becauseit's fun

Hillary Kallenberger (51:31):
and kind of shifting from that mindset of
even as a yoga instructor,right? Like, will they like me?
Will my class be good enough? AmI good enough? Which is the same
old programming of, you know,you go out on stage, you work
your tail off, you go out, youperform, you hope you don't
screw anything up, and you waitfor the applause. And that's

(51:52):
your value, right? Like, didpeople like it? What did the
critics think? What kind ofwrite up did you get? Did they
think your choreography wasshit? Or, you know what I mean,
and so you're you're relying onthis external validation. So
instead of showing up themessage of, Am I going to be
good enough? Is this goodenough? Versus like, I already
know it's good enough, and ifsomeone doesn't like it, that's

(52:15):
really more about them than itis me, and I'm still good
enough. And having to shift thattakes so much pressure off the
plate of just being able to showup and be like, well, it's gonna
be great if I'm following mypassion and my heart, and it'll
align with some people and itwon't align with others. But
that's okay.

Todd McLaughlin (52:35):
It's such an interesting trajectory, because
do you remember times where youwould be thinking in your mind?
Everyone keeps telling me thatyou should just be and you don't
have to try to, you know,entertain and be something, you
know, to constantly keepsomebody going. But it doesn't
really quite stick. It's likeyou hear it, you intellectually
know it's true, but then for itto be real is a whole nother

(52:59):
process. So it sounds likethat's shifting for you, which
is really amazing. I mean, I'vebeen also thinking too, that
there seems to be something inthe air where the world is just
shifting like that right now. Doyou sometimes think that? Do you
ever have that question pop upin your head, like, Is this only
happening to me, or is everybodyright now on planet Earth having
some type of Whoa, aha, kind ofrealization. I mean, I know it

(53:26):
doesn't matter, because ifyou're feeling it, that's all
that really matters right now.
But have you been wondering thatyourself? Yeah.

Hillary Kallenberger (53:33):
I mean, I think there's definitely a shift
happening on lots of levels, andI think that there are certain
people, individuals, who youknow. I mean, when change
happens, regardless of what youwant to view change as people,
either, you know, roll back orpeople jump into it. I mean,
most people don't just kind oflike, have an ambivalent, you

(53:54):
know, feeling about it, youknow, so, or an apathetic, I
guess I should say, um, so. Ithink that you know, because
there is this kind of energeticshift. Is what I feel like in
the world. I think that there'sa lot of this kind of
accelerated change that'shappening and deepened
awareness, and people going, Oh,aha. And because I had those
conversations with people, we'relike, oh yeah, me too. And, you

(54:17):
know, having these like,interesting topics where what
I'm saying doesn't feel like,oh, what's in the world? Has she
been going through? You know,like other people, like, I had a
similar experience. And thenthere's another part of people,
you know, that are still, youknow, kind of rinse and
repeating, and that's okay, too.

Todd McLaughlin (54:37):
Great. Point.
No judgment. Just Just observe.
Just observing.

Hillary Kallenberger (54:43):
Yeah, it's like, you can grab the kite
tails and, like, fly with it, oryou can just watch it fly away,
like, whatever you want to do.

Todd McLaughlin (54:52):
Wow. Hillary, I'm really grateful that we've
had this interaction. It was,it's a cool little, uh. Timeline
of events. And you know, I feellike, you've, you've been able,
you're, you're getting to thatpoint where you're like, like,
in relation to what you said. Isaid this on the podcast, and
then here I am listening, going,Wow. I thought I had everything

(55:14):
organized, and I was going to doeverything this way, and look
how different it is. So I don'twant to set you up for another
similar situation, but I'malways curious to hear the mind
scape of moving forward, justbe, just be present. Or is there

(55:35):
another direction, newdirection? Are you? Are you
pretty content? Or do you havesome sort of like, I'm moving
here, or I'm going there, where?
Where do you want to go now?

Hillary Kallenberger (55:50):
Um, I feel like I'm really, at least right
now, really embracing lettinglife carry me, instead of trying
to drive life, which I've beendoing for so long, and making
okay. Maybe it's this, maybeit's that, and like trying all
these new things, and insteadjust really trying to sink into

(56:11):
and embrace my ability toreceive whatever is presented to
me, whether that be in therelationships I have with
others, or what I'm doing withmy work or clients, or, you
know, where I might be led next.
And I'm really trying to justkind of like, follow the little
trail, you know, the yellowbrick road, so to speak, like

(56:31):
just kind of like, oh, well,this is going and really melting
into this place of, like,letting go of things that aren't
meant to be and embracing stuffthat's coming to me at the same
time. So when something fallsapart, not having an emotional
reaction to it or a judgment,and just being like, well, then
that wasn't supposed to work outthat way. Hmm, how interesting.

(56:52):
I wonder what will follow, and Iwonder where I'll be led. And
I'm really just trying to be inthis place of receiving and
moving out of this space of, youknow, doing and making happen,
because that's just, I've livedso much of my life that way,
that I'm ready for somethingdifferent and ready just to try
to be present with the momentsand enjoy, you know, and just
and just feel joy for justexisting, and let that be enough

(57:16):
for a While.

Todd McLaughlin (57:18):
Yes, oh my gosh, thank you so much.
Hillary, yeah, thank you. Ireally appreciate everything
that you bring in, and it's beena it is a true pleasure to
watch. And thank you for sharingall that. I really appreciate
all your honesty and openness. Idon't feel like this is
difficult for you, but I doremember on a conversation we

(57:40):
had a while back ago, of justthat sometimes these
conversations were avoided or,you know, by putting up a facade
of being the perfect teacher,the perfect you know, I can
overcome any I can. I don't needto take care of myself and all
that sort of stuff, I think. Butit doesn't even feel like it's a
big deal now, like, that's justwhat we're doing naturally. But

(58:02):
a little while ago, it felt likea big deal to talk honestly
that, hey, I'm in pain. I havepain. I'm a yoga teacher. I have
pain. You have pain. We all havepain. Like, I don't know, I
think it's, it's beenincredible. I'm just so thank
you so much for kind of openingthis door and your honesty is

(58:24):
felt and appreciated.

Hillary Kallenberger (58:26):
Thank you.
I appreciate you too. Iappreciate the conversation and
just the connection that we madeand definitely meant to be

Todd McLaughlin (58:34):
Thank you.
Hilary, yeah.
Native, yoga Todd cast isproduced by myself. The theme
music is dreamed up by BryceAllen. If you like this show,
let me know if there's room forimprovement. I want to hear that

(58:54):
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(59:17):
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you.