Santina Giardina-Chard: Breaking Free from Addiction Through Ashtanga Yoga & Gestalt Therapy

Send us a text

Santina Giardina-Chard is a dedicated Ashtanga yoga teacher, having mastered all levels up to the fourth series. Alongside her yoga practice, Santina is a certified gestalt therapist with a master's degree, tirelessly working with clients to explore how their past influences their present experiences and relationships. Her holistic approach combines yoga and gestalt therapy to offer profound insights into personal development and self-awareness.

Visit Santina here: https://insanyoga.com/

Key Takeaways:

• Integration of Yoga and Therapy: Santina illustrates how Ashtanga yoga and gestalt therapy synergize to promote self-awareness and personal growth.
• Freedom Through Deep Self-Contact: The practice of turning towards personal challenges and emotions with curiosity can lead to liberation from past patterns.
• Phenomenological Observation: Understanding one's physical and emotional reactions in the present moment is essential for overcoming past influences.
• Horizontal Relationship Dynamics: Gestalt therapy emphasizes creating a non-hierarchical, safe space for exploration and healing.
• Continual Learning in Practice: Both yoga and gestalt therapy require ongoing personal development to effectively support others.

Thanks for listening to this episode. Check out: 👇
8IN8 Ashtanga Yoga for Beginners Course Online- Learn 8 Limb Yoga in 8 Days - Get FREE coupon code for a limited time only (Regular price $88) https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/8in8-ashtanga-yoga-for-beginners-8-limbs-in-8-days/

Practice with Native Yoga Online - New classes EVERY day - Use Code FIRSTMONTHFREE https://nativeyogacenter.teachable.com/p/today-s-community-class

Subscribe to Native Yoga Center and view this podcast on Youtube.

Thank you Bryce Allyn for the show tunes. Check out Bryce’s website: bryceallynband.comand sign up on his newsletter to stay in touch. Listen here to his original music from his bands Boxelder, B-Liminal and Bryce Allyn Band on Spotify.

Please email special requests and feedback to [e-mail]

https://info.nativeyogacenter.com/8in8-ashtanga-yoga-for-beginners-8-limbs-in-8-days/

Support the show

Native Yoga website: here
YouTube: here
Instagram: @nativeyoga
Twitter: @nativeyoga
Facebook: @nativeyogacenter
LinkedIn: Todd McLaughlin

Episode Transcript

Todd McLaughlin (00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy
you are here. My goal with thischannel is to bring
inspirational speakers to themic in the field of yoga,
massage, body work and beyond.
Follow us at @nativeyoga andcheck us out at
nativeyogacenter.com. All right,let's begin.

(01:04):
Hello, welcome to Native YogaToddcast. Oh, I'm so happy you
are here. What a journey. Thisis episode number 250 about five
and a half years into thisproject called native yoga Todd
cast, and what a wonderful wayto celebrate episode number 250

(01:28):
with my special guest, SantinaGiardina-Chard, please visit her
on her website, insanyoga.com soit's spelled i n, s, a, n, y, o,
g, a.com, well, I think it'stime. Let's go for it. Oh yeah,
I'm so excited. I have SantinaGiardina-Chard here with me

(01:52):
today on the podcast. Santina.
Thank you so much. I've beenanticipating this moment for
months, quite honestly, and I'mso excited to be here with you
now. Can you tell me how you'refeeling today?

Santina Giardina-Chard (02:09):
I'm a mixed bag, as always,
apprehensive, grateful,delighted, a bit brittle,
feeling a little like, can'treally find my my bones yet, and
I feel like it couldn't just beme with you. Somehow, I feel

(02:33):
that we're okay here, if I'm notokay and I'm not safe, like
nothing comes out. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin (02:40):
Well, I'm honored that you feel
comfortable to speak with me,and I, this is my first time to
ever officially get to meet you.
I was one one morning. Here wehave a student named Esther, who
I was. I was going through asore body, like, one of those
days where your body's justlike, really not, not feeling
great. And so I was rollingaround on my mat and just doing

(03:01):
whatever I felt like I needed todo, to try to, like, feel what I
need to do. And Esther goes, ohmy gosh, you've got to meet
Santina. I, I she has a videodoing kind of what you're doing
right now. And I said, Really,okay, cool. And then I looked at
the video she was talking about.
And it was, I think it was likea time lapse. And I even think

(03:23):
maybe your cat, or one of ananimal was there with you. I
could be wrong, but and youwere, you were just doing a very
organic kind of flowing movementthing, and, and that's when I
was then I emailed you, and Iknow it took us a little time to
get organized to do this, andI'm so excited to have this
chance to find out what inspiresyou and you come through a

(03:47):
couple words about how you'redoing. One of them is grateful.
Can you mention something thatyou're grateful for

Unknown (03:53):
right now? Yeah, right now. I'm, I'm grateful to be
alive. Yeah, just, just, just,just to live, just to finally
live and to be I noticed thatyou're impacted by that somehow,
by just by saying that I cansee, are you impacted by me
saying that to you?

Todd McLaughlin (04:12):
Yeah, I am.
Well, yeah, I feel like I keephaving conversations with people
more and more lately that aresaying the same exact thing,
like there's this sort ofawakening to the simplicity of
like, I'm alive. That's goodenough, yeah.

Unknown (04:27):
Like, wow. My parents, my niece, my nephews, my
husband, my dog, this body, thisbody that I know nothing about
but I live in every day and ischanging every day, and delivers
my here now experience and justjust the just the fact that I

(04:48):
can feel it, that I've neverbeen able to feel it my whole
life, and finally, after 50years, I can finally feel my
body. I'm grateful for that, andI'm grateful for contact, yeah,
because I was gonna start.
Crying as I talk to you, becausethat's I'm grateful for
relationship, and how I'mimpacted in relationship. And
every time I go into contactwith something, something new
arises in me that I didn't knowabout myself.

Todd McLaughlin (05:11):
Yeah, amazing, Santina, so that myself and our
listener can get a gist. I mean,you know, to ask someone who's
experienced 50 years, what doyou do and what's your shtick?
I'm just curious, though, if youwere to break it into a

(05:31):
relatively small, relatablechunk, what would you how would
you describe yourself, and whatyour career is, and what you and
what your love and passion is inthe world of yoga, body work and
psychology work,

Unknown (05:48):
yeah, I teach Ashtanga Yoga primarily, but I don't hold
a my soul program. I only holdintensives because the work that
I do is so phenomenologicallyand body deep that I people
can't hold what I do in a set inan intense amount of time. So I

(06:08):
teach intensive Ashtanga Yoga,but my the base of my work is
Gestalt therapy, where I sitwith clients. I only sit with
clients three times a weekbecause it's intense and it
takes a lot of me, and it's mygreatest joy and my greatest
gift, because I get to see howthe body is organized here now

(06:32):
from past experience. So thepast is always coming up here
now, in this relationship withme in the person's body, so I
get to see how that person isorganizing their whole life
through how they are right now,amazing.

Todd McLaughlin (06:51):
You know, I've always hear the word Gestalt,
but I just, I feel like you'restarting to orient me toward
understanding it better. But ifwe had to get like a classic
definition of Gestalt therapy.
What? What is that

Unknown (07:09):
it's not okay. So it's not easy to pinpoint, but it
involves three, three, aboutfour interdependent principles,
field, dialog, phenomenology,awareness, contact six and para
paradoxical theory of change. Soit says that the field, my
field, your field, the field, isalways changing, and we're

(07:33):
always being impacted by thefield. Your phenomenology, like
what you're doing, what you'resaying, how I experience your
eyes, how you grip your jaw, isimpacting me, and I'm being
impacted again by everythingthat you're doing, and you're
being impacted by me. So that'sphenomenology. Dialog is my

(07:56):
capacity to be present andattuned and committed to you,
not as an object, but as a here,now subject, where, again, I'm
deeply impacted by how you areand what you bring and the and
the basis is the paradoxicaltheory of change. We don't

(08:21):
change by trying to change. Wechange by allowing ourselves to
be as we are, and we notice howwe stop ourselves from bringing
as we are. So what that? Whatdoes that mean? Is that there's
always kind of an interruptionto myself. I'm always
interrupting myself from beingas I am based on all my past

(08:45):
history that is coming here nowinto the field to stop me being
spontaneous with you. But if Ican somehow allow myself to be
here now, then the organism thatI am, that you are always moving
towards wholeness and balanceand change, because that's life

(09:06):
is just change all the time, butI constantly interrupting myself
based on my history. I don'tknow if that made any sense.
Yeah, it's hard to pinpointGestalt, because it's, it's a
lived experience. It's like, Inotice your eyes, I notice your
lips. I notice how when I saysomething, your organism is

(09:27):
impacted. And that's whathappens in the Mysore room, you
know, like I say something, andthe organism, not the posture,
is being impacted based oneverything that they've brought
into the room from their wholelife. That makes perfect sense.
What's happening, what'shappening for you? Now, I

(09:48):
noticed that,

Todd McLaughlin (09:49):
yeah, I mean, it just makes perfect sense, I
guess. I mean, I mean, as you'respeaking, I'm having all these
thoughts go through, and I'mjust like processing it, and I.
I agree. I guess the firstquestion that pops into my head
is, when knowing that you'reobserving me so closely, then I

(10:11):
guess I wonder, or if I putmyself in the teacher role, and
I'm in a room full of peoplethat are practicing, and if I'm
aware that every little thingthat I do is impacting them.
That puts me in this sort ofstate of deep observation of
what am I actually doing rightnow? What kind of energy Am I
putting out right now? And ifthey can feel that, wow, I

(10:33):
better pay attention to what I'mdoing, because I it does matter
what I'm thinking about. It doesmatter how I'm holding my body
and but then I guess sometimesthat feels a little like
intense, you know, like a littlelike under the microscope, a
little bit like, almost like,not natural, you know, like
thinking,

Unknown (10:54):
Yeah, this is the thing, if, if the, well, this is
the point, if The, if theenvironment, if the field is not
safe, you won't even go intothat point. You'll be
micromanaging, whereas if, ifthe teacher, so if my if I'm
deeply attuned,and I'm close to myself, and I'm

(11:15):
aware of how I am, and I'mregulated
the nervous system of the otherdrops, so they come out of their
trance, yeah, because they'rekind of in a bit of a trance,
you know? But if I drop and I'mhere and I name what's

(11:39):
happening, rather than projectwhat's happening, they drop and
they're and they're, I can relaxhere. I can let myself be here
and then observe how I am andnotice and so that level of
relation, relational contact,based on how I am, softens their

(11:59):
fantasy. Love it. So it's it'sgot to come from me first. So
when I come into the room, Ihave to bracket everything that
came with me. So how do I dothat? If something happened

(12:20):
beforehand, I need to leave itat the front door, but also I
need to be very close to what myneeds are in the moment, because
if I've got any need that's notmet, it's going out and that
everyone in their room isfeeling it, because They're
coming in to be seen, heard,felt, supported. That's what

(12:46):
they come for. They don't comefor postures. They think they're
coming for postures, but it'snot, yeah, that's contact. They
want to they want to be able tofeel what's happening. But if
I'm got any unmet need therethat is being projected out, so
I need to be very close towhat's happening to me. So if I

(13:09):
don't know how to work insideand be close to this is my unmet
need, and know how to meet thatneed to myself That's getting
pulled from the student. Andthey drop, they close down.
Nothing happens, fascinating. Idon't know if I made that,

Todd McLaughlin (13:28):
yeah, very clear. Oh, I can, yeah. I mean,
it's just probably one of themost exciting environments to be
in in. I mean, it makes, I mean,I guess every environment is
exciting to be in, but the yogaroom just seems extra special in
that regard.

Unknown (13:44):
Do you agree it is when it is when you bring a certain
horizontal you're nothierarchical, you're horizontal,
you're phenomenological. You arethis is your phenomenological
experience. This is mine, andI'm just naming what I see. I'm

(14:06):
not judging, I'm not coercive,I'm not violent, I'm only I
notice this, wondering what'shappening for you. I notice when
I come over embrace or I noticewhen you go into a backbend,
your lower ribs do that, I'mwondering what happens there.

(14:26):
And then they go into the body,and when they feel the body,
it's like, wow, those ribs. I'venever felt my ribs like that.
And then that kind of level ofcontact and that level of safety
without projection drops thesystem for something to come
out, something fresh, somethingnew, something that they may not

(14:50):
have experienced before. But Ican also come up against
resistance too. So I've got tobe with the resistance, which is
another topic. Wow. Happeningfor you now,

Todd McLaughlin (15:02):
my next thought is, what came first, the chicken
or the egg? No, okay, what camefirst Ashtanga Yoga or this type
of Well, so are you a counseloror a psychologist or a
psychiatrist, or what is yourprofessional studies? Because

(15:23):
you said you sit with people,yeah.

Unknown (15:25):
So I'm a gestalt therapist, so I've got a
master's in Gestalt. Wow. Verycool, yeah. So I I sit with
clients like I sit with clientsevery day, yes? So I sit with
their world, and I'm deeplyinterested in how they make up
their world, their lived space,what is happening not as a
story, not the story you weretold or that you made up, but a

(15:50):
here, now, phenomenologicalexperience. When I say this to
you, I notice you look away,what happened then. Or when I
say this to you, you change thesubject, or you laugh, wondering
where you went there, or Inoticed you just completely
disassociated from me when Iasked you about this, what
really happened? And so thenthey now have to explore what

(16:14):
happened to me. Well, I didn'tknow that. So you're learning to
work. You're not all learning towork on yourself. You're
learning to work with yourself.
How am I doing that? And howcome I do that? And what does it
remind me of? Because there'salways something from the past
coming forward into the presentmoment to stop you being here.

Todd McLaughlin (16:41):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think
that's that seems over. Have Ilost you? No, it seems over low,
overwhelmingly obvious, but notobvious at the same time. Do you
know what I mean, like as you'reI mean, I do notice that my past
has a huge effect on my present.
So I mean to so then I'mcurious, did you start to go

(17:05):
into your master's work in thisfield prior to beginning to
practice yoga, or did you startin the yoga world and then get
fascinated and by the psychologyof it all, and then go and go
into the college field.

Unknown (17:27):
I I came to yoga as a heroin addict. So I came to
ashtanga yoga as a heroinaddict, a bulimic and an
anorexic. Okay, so the foundthat the structure, the reliable
vessel that is Ashtanga Yoga,the form, the structure, the

(17:48):
daily cleaned up my act, butthen I just brought that same
addictive pattern into thepractice, so still doing all my
harming patterns of anorexia andBolivia, just not heroin in the
Ashtanga method. So it wasripping me apart as I bumped

(18:12):
into myself every day.
Everything was coming up, everyevery thought, every feeling,
all my past, was all coming upto the surface, so it churned
it, but then I didn't haveanywhere to go. I didn't know
what to do that. So I wasgetting worse. Was getting more
bulimic, more anorexic. Drugsdropped away, but more bulimic,

(18:33):
more anorexic, and my beautifulyoga teacher at the time Mark
told me, he said to me, you needto go and see this lady. So he
handed me a gestalt therapycard, and I went to her, and
then Gestalt helped me to livethrough what I was going
through. It gave me the interrelated principles to learn to

(18:56):
work with myself and to learn tosupport myself inside, rather
than projecting all of my unmetneeds and all my unfinished
business onto my husband and theWorld. So Ashtanga a mess.
Ashtanga another mess. Gestalt,another mess, still messing it

(19:23):
up. But listen, hurting myselfless and hurting less people. So
that's the main thing.

Todd McLaughlin (19:32):
Love it.
Santina,

Unknown (19:35):
beautiful. The two work together because the standard is
a laboratory. Everything'shappening there. It's all coming
to the surface, but the Gestaltgave me that, the ethic of
contact. How do I make contactwith myself when all of this is
coming up? How do I not abandonmyself? How do I not shame

(19:57):
myself? How do I deal. My grief,so he gave me the ethic to make
contact with myself and theworld, particularly my husband,
who saved my ass. I'd be deadwithout him, but but as soon as
everything came up, then ourrelationship got worse, so I had
to find a way to be with him,and in finding a way to be with

(20:20):
him and myself and the world?

Todd McLaughlin (20:24):
Yeah, wow, so much to dig in

Unknown (20:29):
on, but I'm still a mess.

Todd McLaughlin (20:35):
I guess that's that was a question I had a
little little earlier inrelation to bringing up the
concept that, you know, our pastis constantly formulating,
dictating, causing us to, youknow, experience things through

(20:56):
that particular lens. Is therethis idea that eventually that
lens will get so clean and clearthat that baggage, all of that
old stuff, will truly not play arole anymore. Or does that just
make life interesting andexciting, like once you

(21:16):
acknowledge it? Because, I mean,I guess there's a point where
you I could say, oh no, I'veworked through all that stuff,
and that stuff doesn't bother meand who I am today, and I'm just
moving forward. I mean, I guessonce I acknowledge, yeah, I went
through a lot of stuff there,definitely feeling the effects
of it. Currently, I'm seeing itpop up in different places every

(21:40):
day. But at least if Iacknowledge it, I just kind of,
I just kind of accept or assumeor expect that I will always
have a little bit of a mess, andthat's okay do. What do you
think around that, that subject?

Unknown (21:59):
I Well, it's not my experience that it's gone away,
and I don't know whether or notgo away. What I do know, though,
is now that when things arise, Ihave the capacity to be okay and
to free myself internally fromwhat is happening. So my shame

(22:19):
is still there. But instead ofbinding myself more in my
unworthiness, I'm okay. Here Iam again. What am I going to do
with this, just here, with thisshame again? So I turn and face
it. Here you are. What does thisremind me of? This reminds me of

(22:40):
that time when, but that's nothappening now. That was then,
and in this moment, that eventis still here, now stopping me
being with you. So in thatmoment, I have a point of
freedom, a point of choice, togo. I don't need to do that,
even though it's still here. Sothat capacity to witness and see

(23:04):
that I have choice on how I wantto meet the moment, that's
freedom for me, even though it'sstill here.

Todd McLaughlin (23:12):
Yes, like I have a

Unknown (23:13):
choice in that moment.
Like I'm with my parents, theydrive me nuts, but I still have
a choice. I don't have to meetthem as a 14 year old, even
though my shame is still comingup, my grief around their aging
is still coming up, my my lossof what was is still there. So I
can still meet this differently,because I now have the capacity

(23:35):
to stay closer with what ishappening. So I'm here with
myself, right? That's happening.
I have a choice here on how Iwant to respond to this, and
that slowly starts gettingreorganizing my entire nervous
system, like it's okay, I'malright. I can meet this, meet

(23:59):
this, rather than doing all ofthat to try and meet this, yeah,

Todd McLaughlin (24:08):
I like to earlier when you said that part
of the structure of thisparticular angle of therapy is
to, I think you said to not tryto change who we are, you know,
like, there's a sense of like,I've got to change, I've got to
fix, I've got to fix this brokenthing inside of me now, and to

(24:31):
create a space where I don'teven or that's not the mantra
I'm telling myself, where it'slike, I don't have to fix This
or That. Taking that pressureoff just seems like that would
be or is critical for then aspace for healing to occur.

Unknown (24:50):
Yeah, so as soon as I witness or I experience
something in my body, usuallymine's shame, I'm not enough.
Not that I didn't do enough. I'mfundamentally not enough. So
when I experience that in mybody, then I notice that I've
interrupted my contact withmyself. Okay? I'm experiencing

(25:13):
shame, and what? How did Iinterrupt my contact? All right?
Because this idea, we call it aninterject in in Gestalt, this
introject from the past, thisidea, this message, this memory,
came into the moment interruptedmy contact with myself, and I

(25:34):
felt shame. And then because Ifelt shame, I didn't do the
podcast. Because I'm not goodenough. I'm not doing this
podcast. I'm not good enough.
Whereas, if I can go, Oh, hereyou are. And interrupt the
interruption, that's that's afundamental Gestalt thing. An
interruption comes in. I have tointerrupt the interruption to

(25:58):
move forward. So that's notchanging myself. That's saying
so close to myself to noticeshame is here, but that's from
the past. It's not now. That'san experience from the past, a
structure from the past,interrupting my here, now lived
experience with Todd, I have achoice here. I don't have to

(26:22):
change. I can just stay here andslowly allow myself to move
forward. So I'm close.

Todd McLaughlin (26:32):
Does that make sense? Oh, perfect sense. Oh, my
gosh. I like it. I've neverreally I kept hearing the word
and I kept hearing people sayingthey've gone to Gestalt therapy,
and I just didn't reallyunderstand. I'm just very
grateful for you explaining it,because it what a what a
wonderful concept. Can you giveme a little bit of the history

(26:55):
of Gestalt is it is that thelast name of the person that
popularized this particular

Unknown (27:04):
method from, it's from a man called Fritz pearls. He
was a German man, and Swedish, Ithink it was German, but he
created this methodology. It's amethod because it there's
anything that has a field theoryphenomenology and dialog is
technically Gestalt, becauseit's those three interdependent

(27:27):
principles that make up agestalt. In essence is we move
through this cycle of experienceand we finish off gestalts. So
something

Todd McLaughlin (27:42):
from the past, you were making a circle, just
so people are listening. Somepeople be watching on YouTube.
Some people will be listeningand they won't. So you were,
like, taking a circle with yourfinger, making a circle. So I
guess I'm understanding thatthere's this, like, cyclical
pattern that if we can start toobserve the cyclical pattern

(28:02):
that we do. Can you name thosethree things again? Phenomenal,
field theory, ology,

Unknown (28:11):
so phenology, field theory is everything. The field
is every field, my field, yourfield, is impacting the greater
field. We're constantly impactedby the field. Yeah, okay.
Phenomenology is what I see,what I hear, what I taste, what
I touch. So I notice now youreyes are getting a little glazed

(28:31):
over, or I noticed you've justmoved in your chair. So your
phenomenology is telling mesomething about you. Now I don't
interpret that, because I don'tknow. The only way I know is to
go into dialog, which is thethird pillar, to find out what's

(28:52):
happening for you. Then I know.
So I don't project that you justsat back and moved away from me.
I ask you what happened for youwhen you sat back, and then that
gives the opportunity for theclient, the student, to bring
their meaning to me, so I'm thenin their world. I didn't know if

(29:12):
I answered your question, butit's those three pillars that
come together that give us thisground on which to work in
relationship, because I can't bein relationship if I'm not if I
don't know about you, if I'm notcurious about you, and I can't

(29:35):
be in relationship if My past isalways pressing forward to all
of my unfinished business. Ifthat's always pressing forward,
I can't get to know you becauseI'm just trying to finish that
off time. So that's the Gestalt.
The Unfinished business from thepast is coming forward in the

(29:56):
moment for me to finish, andbecause I don't know how to
work. Work. I don't finish it. Ijust keep on getting stuck,
stuck, and I never finished theGestalt. And that's why people's
lives feel stuck, because allthis past stuff is coming
forward, but because they don'tknow how to work inside, they
don't know how to finish theGestalt. So once they finish the

(30:17):
Gestalt, that little segment oftheir psychic field gets wrapped
up, put into the past. They gotmore energy for the present
moment. I went fast there,sorry, slow down.

Todd McLaughlin (30:27):
Oh, that's great. Fascinating Santina. And
I think saved my life. It savedmy life.

Unknown (30:35):
Yeah, I can feel that Ashtanga Gestalt, my husband,
saved my life, because itallowed me to see what I'm
doing, because if I don't knowwhat I'm doing, I cannot make a
different choice on how I wantto meet myself in the world,

(30:56):
it's Not everyone else, it'syou. I know that's hard to hear.
Everyone doesn't want to hearthat. Everyone wants to think
that it's everyone. It's notever. It's you.

Todd McLaughlin (31:09):
It's not their fault, it's my fault,

Unknown (31:11):
it's you, because it's and that's not, that's not a
reprimand. That is a I need totake full responsibility of what
I'm doing. Yeah, so you that isfull agency, full ownership, for
this is my life. I'm ready to bein my life. I've talked a lot.

(31:31):
I'll shut up.

Todd McLaughlin (31:32):
No, well, let me just let me add some more to
give you something to respondwith. I let me

Unknown (31:39):
ask you, please. How are you? How are you responding
to this? I'm interested in you.

Todd McLaughlin (31:45):
I'm just, I mean, I I mean, I'll give you an
example from today, and thenI'll let you give me your some
feedback. I started reading theCritique of Pure Reason by
Immanuel Kant, and it's prettydeep and heavy, but there's this

(32:07):
idea that he's proposing and iswritten in the 1700s which
fascinates me, that there's suchdeep thinking going On for
throughout forever and

Unknown (32:21):
makes me want to cry when you say that

Todd McLaughlin (32:24):
this word apriori, this idea that having
an object. So I guessjuxtapositioning between having
knowledge about something thatis either a priori, which is

(32:44):
through intuition, and thenthere's this idea of knowing
something through experience. Soyou can tell me about something,
and I can learn about it, and Ican think I know about it, but
until I actually have anexperience of it, it's two

(33:05):
different types of knowledgeabout an object. So then if I
just investigate the mug, like acoffee, like a tea cup, or a
mug, or like a coffee cup, and Ijust take this one object, and I
think I know this object becauseI've had the experience of
holding it. Because then I waslike, Well, wait, well, what

(33:27):
object is there that I don'thave experience with, and what
would be my understanding of itprior to having experience? But
then I started thinking, well,possibly there's objects that
I've had experience with, but Ihaven't, I don't really know it,
because I'm putting assumptionsonto what I think it actually

(33:51):
is. Like, what actually? Is itreally and can I get into an a
priori state, like a state of, Idon't know yet what this object
is, and what am I feeling fromthis object right now, and what,
what information can I get fromthis mug, this cup, and clear
out all this pre existing ideasthat I have about this cup, and

(34:14):
this is just one object. Butthen, as I was looking around
the room this morning, when Iwas teaching, I was like, well,
is a human an object? I guess itis because it's a physical
beings, physicality, it's of thephysical universe. And and then
yeah, I started to say, Well,ah, okay, one particular

(34:34):
student, I think I know thisstudent, I think I know. But
then I like, do I really knowthem? Do I really know, and
could I even pretend to knowwhat's going on for them right
now? And so I'm just in thisworld right now, personally, of
just feeling awe at trying toknow and feel and really hear

(34:56):
what's what each object is hasfor me. And. I guess it's
unraveling my world in a way.
You know, a lot of I guess I'mrealizing how much assumption,
how many assumptions I put onthe things I think I know, and
so I don't know. Did I makesense? Did that? Did that come
through?

Unknown (35:14):
Absolutely, because what you're what happened for me
when you spoke then, is you'reworking with phenomenology and
you're working with dialog. SoI'm I'm experiencing this cup,
I'm experiencing itphenomenologically, but unless I
go into dialog, I can't go intodialog with a cup. But I can in

(35:35):
the sense that I'm inquiring,I'm interested. I'm interested
in its shape. I'm wondering howit sits. How come it's got so
that's the same as a student.
When you watch a student on themat, the organism is doing
something, and that organism isdoing something based on all

(35:56):
these past experiences that it'strying to reorganize again and
again and again and again inthis form, which happens to be,
I don't know, pashimoto, orwhatever it is, and you're like,
unless I go into dialog, andit's not chit chat, we're not
chatting there. I'm askingspecific questions on a

(36:18):
phenomenology about thatstudent, and I asked them a
direct question. I'm wondering,what happens when you breathe
into your back ribs and youcan't feel l3 and you take them
right into the body, and thatlevel of contact allows

(36:44):
something to happen. It's thecontact, it's the contact, wow,
and the inquiry, it's the awe,it's the life's happening and
I'm not here. Where am I? Ibetter start getting interested.

Todd McLaughlin (37:06):
Yeah.
Fascinating. Santina, can youelucidate what your internal
dialog or inquiry is when youdon't engage verbal dialog, but
you engage with physical contactdialog, such as an assist.

Unknown (37:28):
Yeah, so the first thing, the first thing I do is I
always asking, Is it okay if Itouch you? And I'm wondering if
it's okay to touch you here, andit has come in, because as soon
as I come in, their field isimpacted, their organism is
impacted, and they have astartle response, you know, like

(37:51):
you can watch a student'sstartle response. It's like
something happened from the pastthat's here now that they're not
even usually aware of. And so myassists are just light touches,
if anything, or even like justholding and letting the organism
do what it needs to do, becausethe organism is always moving

(38:13):
towards self regulation. If youhold enough safe space for it to
do it, it's smarter than you.
It's smarter than any assist,it's smarter than Ashtanga. It's
smarter than anything youclearly have to be attuned
enough and close enough to letit do its thing. And that level
of, that level of attention, andthat level of I'm going to start

(38:38):
crying that level of honor. Thestudent goes, thank you. And I
go, I did nothing. They go, butthank you. I said I did nothing.
They go, thank you. I go, yeah.
All I did was go, you're allright, you can do it, yeah. And
then, because the student wantsto do it on their own, they
don't want someone to do it forthem. They think they want

(39:04):
someone to do it for them, but Idon't believe that every human
wants to be free. They want tobe free. They just want to know
how it is they interrupt theirfreedom, and how they interrupt
their freedom is how theyinterrupt their contact. I'm

(39:26):
getting emotional. I better slowdown.

Todd McLaughlin (39:28):
That's good.
It's good. Yeah, I It's funnybecause, have I lost you? No,
not at all. It's funny becausewhen you said freedom, I had
formulated a few questions, andthen you, you know, and I sent
them to you, and they're just acouple. And so the very first
question that I formulated foryou is, on your website, you
describe teaching as quote,starting with freedom and ending

(39:49):
with freedom. End quote, how didyour personal journey lead you
to this understanding, and howdoes the idea of freedom show up
in your teaching today? So.
That's where I thought, okay,maybe we'd start, but I knew we
weren't going to need questionspersonally, because I just, I
knew you were just going to belike an open book of
information. And I was excitedfor that, but since you brought

(40:09):
the word up freedom, and ittriggered me to remember that
that was the first question Iwas thinking I was going to ask
you, can you talk a little bitmore about this quote that I saw
of starting with freedom andending with freedom? And it
makes very logical sense to me.
But Can you expound a littlefurther into this realm of
freedom?

Unknown (40:30):
It's not about just doing what you want. That's not
what I'm talking about. Youcan't just do what you want.
It's not what it is. It's mycapacity to stay close with
myself inside so I'm free tonotice what I'm doing, to stay

(40:50):
with my grief, to stay with myshame, to stay with my jealousy,
to stay with my envy, to staywith my resentment, to stay with
my rage, to stay with everythingthat is inside of me, and to
know that if I can stay thereand I can watch it and turn
towards it, that very act is anact of freedom, because as soon

(41:13):
as I move away, it hasn't goneanywhere. It's still there. But
if I just turn towards it and goright here, what do you got to
tell me? And as soon as itdelivers, then you've got a
choice. As soon as you've got achoice, you're free.

Todd McLaughlin (41:34):
That's beautiful.

Unknown (41:38):
But if you don't turn towards it and watch and
witness. It's like Krishnamurti.
I love Krishnamurti because he'she teaches you just true
freedom. That the very fact thatI stopped running and I just
turned clearly towards what isin that moment, the resistance

(41:59):
towards myself drops. Then onceI realize how locked up I am
inside, and then I start workingthe Gestalt method. Then I see
that I'm free to do whatever Iwant in here.

(42:25):
You that takes a long time toget there. Yeah, that's right,
it takes a lifetime, yeah. Butif you're close and you see and
you watch, you can say toyourself, I'm not doing that,

(42:46):
and I'm not doing that. I don'thave to do that. But if there's
a story and interject somethingfrom the past, or an unfinished
business from the past comingforward, you will never give
yourself your freedom not to dothat, because it's just here.

(43:09):
What are you doing here? Becausewhat you're doing here is
showing up here. Yes, I don'tknow if I'm making any sense?

Todd McLaughlin (43:20):
Yeah, no, you're doing amazing, Santina. I
my biggest thought that justpopped in as you're talking is
correct me, if I'm wrong, Iheard from Esther, she said
Santina has an advancedpractice. First, second, third,
fourth. Series. Is that true?
Done.

Unknown (43:44):
All done. True? Okay, I'm not certified, though. I'm
not certified to teach, yeah,understood third or fourth, but
I've done all the end to the endof fourth. It cleaned me up.

Todd McLaughlin (43:55):
Since, you know, holy cow, holy cow. That's
crazy. That's crazy, man.

Unknown (43:59):
It cleaned me like I had this teacher. Mark took me.
I love him so much. He broughtme through primary to fourth
series in almost four or fiveyears. He just and it cleaned up
all of the heroin gone. It mademe messy with a with anorexia

(44:20):
and bulimia, but it cleaned upall the Heron because that level
of intensity every day, everyday, every day, the form that
his contact with me, there wasnowhere for the nervous system
to hide. And then Gestalt helpedme live through that. So yeah, I

(44:44):
did. I did all that, but I don'tpractice third or fourth
anymore. Only primary andsecond.

Todd McLaughlin (44:49):
Can you tell me why it's better for me? Ah,

Unknown (44:54):
third series was making me too tired. I couldn't, I
couldn't. Didn't hold down thirdseries practice every day and
work with the Gestalt studentsthe way I want to work with
because I'm just tired. I justgot tired. I dropped I really
dropped that when shadd passed,I went, I'm not doing third

(45:16):
series anymore. He's gone. Idon't have to perform. I true.
It was like, it was like, I canjust put that backpack off. I
don't need to go to my saw andperform third series again, I'd
done it. It had done its job. Itpenetrated enough. It finished.
You know, I don't need to dothat anymore, and I still miss

(45:40):
him. That's another story. So Idon't practice third series and
I don't practice fourth seriesanymore. I miss it, but I don't
need it. I miss I miss the rush,but I don't, I don't miss the
grind.

Todd McLaughlin (46:41):
What type of physical health are your tissues
currently good?

Unknown (46:54):
They're pretty good. Is that what you're asking? Like,
everything's good. I don't wantto

Todd McLaughlin (46:59):
like, knees are happy, ankles are happy.
Everything's fine.

Unknown (47:02):
Ankles are happy. The only thing that's happy is
always this. My heart does, mydoes. My emotional heart is
always, yeah, okay, but mybody's good, yeah. You know why?
Because I got taught reallywell, not through Mark Todd me
through this lady nicking off.
So Mark taught me the series.

Todd McLaughlin (47:23):
What is Mark's last name?

Unknown (47:25):
Mark togney, t, O, g, n, i, he's on the Gold Coast,
Australia. Cool. Nicky Knopf.
This woman taught me how topractice they're different
things. Can you elucidate? Yeah.
So Mark taught me the seriesthere every day, sometimes twice

(47:47):
a day, for 10 years. But inbetween that, he said to me, you
need to go to Nikki Knopf, whichwas his teacher. So I would
travel to her every year, andshe would teach me alignment.
This goes here, that goes there.
You're not doing this. You can'tfeel that you're dead there. So
she gave it to me. She taught mehow to practice. And then over

(48:09):
the years, I continue to teachmyself how to practice, like how
part of the bone rhythm works,what happens to my spine, what
goes on in my jaw, what's goingon in my lungs? What's my what?
How do I collapse there? How doI brace? There's this emotional
anatomy that came from goingthat deeply into the body. So

(48:33):
she taught me how to keep mybody safe, and then also through
my own study. So I was lucky.
I've been lucky all aroundreally,

Todd McLaughlin (48:42):
yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, that is so cool.

Unknown (48:48):
I lucky to have my husband, LUCKY TO FIND Ashtanga,
lucky to have good teachers,LUCKY TO FIND Gestalt, just
lucky,

Todd McLaughlin (48:54):
yeah, yeah. Do Can you talk a little bit more
about luck? Do you believe in ahigher power?

Unknown (49:04):
Yes, absolutely. I don't believe there's any luck.

Todd McLaughlin (49:07):
So that's where I wanted to bring you. Yeah,

Unknown (49:10):
I don't believe in luck, but seems like I was
lucky, you know, blessed. Idon't know what.

Todd McLaughlin (49:14):
Okay, good, good. Yeah. I just wanted to see
where you're oriented in that,in that regard, and then, okay,
you have students now who aremaybe you have a student that's
that rich, Asana D and where areyou now? And your thoughts in

(49:35):
your relation to I mean, clearlyyour your focus is bringing this
presence and awareness andattention into the room so that
the student can explore theirown bodies, their minds, their
past, their present, and settleinto the natural rhythm of the

(49:56):
organism and let the organismorganize itself naturally and
create A very comfortable spacefor this to all happen. And the
student gets to Marty Asana Dand is attempting to bind, and
they're doing some struggle, andyou're noticing, I don't know if
you were to push a lot harder onthat, and the way the knees are,
I wonder if that's going to begood for that particular

(50:17):
individual. Where are yourthoughts at with this idea of
more and more poses, and and andcurrently where maybe, in
theory, all you need is onepose, and you could just
experience the entire totalityof the yoga philosophy,
experience and enlightenment andSamadhi and all that great

(50:37):
stuff, just with one particularpose. How do you. Organize that
in relationship to teachingindividuals.

Unknown (50:48):
So if you're asking me about that individual,
specifically, what, what would Ido? Is that what you're asking

Todd McLaughlin (50:53):
I guess I'm just real. Let me, let me
rephrase this. I had somebodyonce before say, I wonder if
people that are practicing 430sor more fourth series are more
spiritually enlightened becausethe postures themselves are so
much more difficult that does itattune their nervous system in
some way where they're pickingup on some sort of higher

(51:14):
vibration? And my answer, orthought and my thoughts are, is
that I don't really know thatone pose is more spiritually
advanced than another. It's justa posture. So it's all about the
mind and where how we orientateourselves. So my answer was, I
really don't think so, but Isaid I've explored a little bit
down the road, and I can'treally say that's made me any

(51:36):
more spiritually advanced or no.
So that's why I'd base my but Ican't answer that question,
because I haven't practiced thatfar down the road. So I guess I
wanted to just kind ofunderstand your perspective
having gone through that journeyto like what seems like the end
of the road, the end of fourseries. And what are your

(51:56):
thoughts in relation to justtrying to get a student to
understand that they don't haveto strive so hard to go so far
down the road, because they'realready on the road, and the
road is good, whatever part ofthe road you're on, if you can
get in the right

Unknown (52:10):
frame of mind, I agree with you completely there. I'll
answer this in two parts. Myjourney with fourth series was
necessary because I needed thatlevel of penetration in the body
to work through a level ofdensity to get me to feel
something.

Todd McLaughlin (52:28):
Wow, that's fine. I just couldn't.

Unknown (52:30):
I just couldn't feel anything because I just done so
many drugs and so much sexualprostitution, I was just numb so
I could do all those posturesand feel nothing. Wow, amazing.
And it wasn't till I got toNikki north, where she looked at
me and she went, fascinating.
Can do all these postures, butyou don't know how to do
anything. And she pulled mestraight back to her foundation

(52:53):
series, and she kept me therefor three years.

Todd McLaughlin (53:00):
So yeah, I think that.

Unknown (53:01):
I think that. I think that if you practice, because
when I practice that, thatfourth level, fourth level,
fourth series, I was constantlylike, felt like I was on LSD all
the time. Just wow. So somethingdefinitely happens. Something
definitely happens in the pelvicfloor, in the psoas in the

(53:22):
diaphragm to awaken something.
But similarly, you can have thatlevel of penetration in much
Asana D with the rightunderstanding of the body, the
right instructions and the rightlevel of safety for you to
experience something. But evenbefore then, I would go, I'm
getting excited. Slow down. Iwould, I just get a bit excited

(53:45):
before I even go to New chasna DI would go into dialog with this
student. Go, do you what's youridea here? Do you really want to
do nudity? And I would see theimportance level. If this is
really important to you, I'mhappy to help you, and I want

(54:07):
you to check out really what itmeans to you. So where are they
in it? Because I don't want tostart ripping things away from
people if it's important forthem, so I need to put their
needs first above my projectionsof what I think they need. So if
they really want it, I'm goingto give it to you. Let me show

(54:34):
you how to do it, the safest wayyou can do it, given your
current configuration, becauseit's important to you. I'm not
taken away, but I want you toask the question, what it is for
you to get Maruti Asana Dbecause that's a whole different
dialog.

Todd McLaughlin (54:57):
I agree. Have you seen a lot of I'm gonna pick
the word misalignment in regardsto this idea in your travels
through the ishtanga world,

Unknown (55:17):
yes, yes. People, yes.
People are just good answer,doing some crazy shit, just
doing crazy shit. I'm just like,this is gonna end in
destruction, man. But it's allright. It's all right because
you. It's all right because you,if you really feel like this
style of suffering is for you,you have to go down that
journey. And sometime, at somepoint, you suffer enough that

(55:40):
you'll. Find the right teacherwho will teach you what you
really need. I trust that. Yeah,so I don't, it's like, if you
you'll find it. I don't projectit's like, sometimes I just look
away and go, Oh no, this isgonna end in tragedy, but it's
okay.

Todd McLaughlin (56:02):
Santina, would you recommend someone who the
last thing in the world theythink they need is to go see a
therapist? Would you recommendeven someone who doesn't even
think they need therapy to go toa gestalt session with someone

(56:23):
who is a professional in thatfield, just to experience it
once.

Unknown (56:28):
Yes, cool, yes. Just go and experience what it is to be
in a horizontal relationshipwith someone who's not trying to
push anything on on you to justsit in your here, in our
presence and your phenomenology,you'll be so uncomfortable. You
will be so uncomfortable, butyou will discover a fresh fish.

(56:49):
You will discover somethinglively underneath you, a
vitality, something underneathyour resistance that's vital,
that wants to come out, andslowly you'll start to become
quietly interested in otheraspects of yourself that you may
never have touched before, verycool

Todd McLaughlin (57:11):
as a professional, and I believe most
of us that are Professional atsomething, whether it's career
or hobby, strives to keeplearning growing and just
perfecting and learning and justgetting better at what we do.

(57:34):
How could you become better? Asa gestalt therapist, continue
working your own personal

Unknown (57:45):
so as a gestalt therapist, every Gestalt
therapist, to keep theirlicense, has to sit in group. So
we sit in a gestalt group wherewe're all learning to work with
our own processes. Has to haveconstant supervision, someone
looking at their work, whatthey're doing, and constantly
learning to work with their ownprocess so they are deeply

(58:06):
attuned to what is going oninside of them, so they're free
enough to sit with another. Sowe're every Gestalt therapist is
constantly has to do a certainlevel of group work, supervision
and personal work just to keeptheir license. But the thing is,
is that you want to do it. It'snot like you're obliged to do

(58:27):
it. You get so interested inyour inner life. You're like, I
need to work on that. Very cool.
I know that that's very lively,and I'm not through that, so I
need to work on that. So there'sexcitement, there's devotion,
there's consecration in this ismy life. This is my work. I want
to do this because it's a way oflife. Like Ashtanga is a way of

(58:49):
life, Gestalt is a way of life.
It's getting really human.

Todd McLaughlin (58:58):
And would you agree that there's a similar
ethos in the world of Ashtanga?
That's something that I alwaysthought was fairly fascinating
about the Ashtanga community andworld, is that as a teacher, was
always encouraged you continueto practice, and that your
teaching will stem from theexperience you have as a
practitioner. Because I find alot of folks will want to come
to a yoga teacher trainingprogram, and they don't really

(59:20):
want to practice yoga. I kind ofwant to learn how to be a
teacher, but they're notfascinated by the practicing
laboratory. And so I wasappreciated in the stronger
world that there was this, likeyou got to do a lot of practice
first. Don't worry aboutteaching until you start
practicing and get to knowyourself. So it sounds like
Gestalt has situated it'sorganized its principles around

(59:42):
a similar sort of structure. Andit seems like, in my opinion,
that that is just a veryrational and logical way to
structure almost any learningand teaching environment.
Profession. You got to get intoit. First, you got to do some

(01:00:03):
work, and then you havesomething to offer other people,
because you've been through thefire. Did that all you agree.
You're nodding your head. So I'mguessing,

Unknown (01:00:12):
absolutely, yeah, absolutely, like, like,
ultimately, I need to work outwho I am, what I bring, what
stops me being human and presentwith people how my unmet needs.
It doesn't matter whether you'rerunning a corporation or whether
you're running a miso program orwhether you're having a child,

(01:00:32):
it's the same thing. Who am I?
What do I do? What are my unmetneeds? What's my unfinished
business? And how is thatstopping me being here? Yeah,
because if I'm not here, I'm notin life. And that from that
foundation, I can run acorporation, I can run a Mysore
program, I can have a child. Ican do what I want to do,
because it's about my innerprocess. What is happening?

Todd McLaughlin (01:01:01):
Yes, how cool, man, you're the first person. I
mean, I chat with yoga peeps allthe time. First one that I've
met that's integrated Gestalttherapy with their ashtanga yoga
practice and teaching. So what acool combination. I like this.
I'm curious. I want to learnmore. I want to I want to go to

(01:01:24):
a gestalt therapy session. I'mjust so grateful to have this
doorway open up for me. I feellike I have a lot to lot to
learn, and I could reallybenefit from everything. You're
the way you're laying this out,it just makes really good sense
to me, and I am so thankfulSantina, you know, I know we

(01:01:47):
booked an hour, and I want to berespectful of your time coming
real close to it. And I guess,let me ask you one more
question, if we were to do afollow up interview, what
subject line should we go downthat potentially we did not
cover during this conversationthat you think would be a value
or interest to our listeners.

Unknown (01:02:08):
Yeah, I would like to look at emotional anatomy. How
is the emotional anatomy of thestudent? Let's call call it an
organism, because it's anorganization. The student in
front of you is a is anorganization of how they've
experienced their life. Look athow that organization is

(01:02:33):
presenting itself, and how do Imeet it? How do I meet it
without violence, withoutprojection, in a horizontal
relationship to provide enoughsafety for that organism to
experience something else ofthemselves. That's I just got
goosebumps, because if, if youlearn that man, that's the

(01:02:56):
greatest gift you can givesomeone enough space and enough
safety for them to feel safeenough to organize, reorganize
how they are, to at least lookat how they are and what they're
doing and having choice aboutwhat they're doing. Now, that's
not easy. That's that's thattakes a lot time. It takes

(01:03:18):
commitment. I start crying.
Takes time. It takes commitment.
It takes attention. It takeslove like you gotta You gotta
love, you gotta love life. Yougotta go. Wow, this is
happening, amazing. You gottahave that capacity to go. I

(01:03:38):
didn't know this was possible. Ididn't know that I had the eyes
to see this? Yes, I'm sorry thatI'm emotional, because that that
brings something else in me thatmakes me alive.

Todd McLaughlin (01:03:54):
Thank you for being emotional. I love it. I
like that you're emotional. It'simportant. I think it's real.
Thank you so much. Would you beopen to doing a follow up
discussion on my show sometimewhere we tackle that particular
subject?

Unknown (01:04:08):
Yes, let's do it. I think it's a lively subject, and
it's the work that I love doing,and it's the work I believe you
own that it's the work I believepeople need, and not people need
the field in which people canwork, that people want to learn
to work, not postures, workinside, yeah, yes, yeah, I need

(01:04:33):
to learn how to work inside, noton me with myself.

Todd McLaughlin (01:04:39):
Yes, well, amazing. Santina, wow, how
amazing you're you're reallyjust very talented and and open.
And I just really enjoyed this.
And I could, I can feel it, youknow, it's, it was a for me, the
the introduction process, thanthe time before the introduction

(01:05:03):
to this moment where we meet,and then to come to the finality
or the conclusion of our, youknow, this whole, like little,
little process that we you and Ijust went through. It's just so
fun for me. I absolutely loveit. And I could, you know, as I
was reading your material andlooking at you and watching your
social and all that sort ofstuff. I just was like, Oh, I
can't wait. I was just soexcited all day today, so I

(01:05:25):
thank you, and I can't wait todo our follow up discussion. And
is there any final words ofconclusion that you'd like to
add here at the very end?

Unknown (01:05:42):
Yeah, you know, you, you can, you can find freedom in
yourself. Takes take some timethat you can find a level of
freedom in yourself, where youcan experience who you are, a
new in any moment, and you canhave more choice in your life

(01:06:05):
than you think you have, becauseit comes down to it comes down
to this. You want to be free.
You think you want the posture.
It's not the posture. If youwant internal freedom, you
don't. You don't want the pastto be continually stopping your

(01:06:25):
here now presence with yourself.
That's my own projection. But ifyou look deeply, you want to be
free. Now. You can't be free ifyou're always in the same
unfinished business. There'smany things that I would want to
say, but that's what came

Todd McLaughlin (01:06:48):
all right. Oh man, okay, yeah, that was
brilliant. And thank you Estherfor introducing us, and thank
you Santina, and thank youlistener for just being you and
being here and awesome. We loveyou. Thank you. Thank you. Thank
you. Oh, what do you think?
Isn't she amazing? I can't waitto do episode number, Second

(01:07:08):
Edition with Santina. Rememberyou got to go check her out on
her website. I N, S, a, n, y, O,G, a.com, insania, insan
yoga.com, and remember, you canvisit us on our website, native
yoga center.com, there's linksin the description. Click them.
Check us out. Follow say hello,leave a rating, send it. Share

(01:07:31):
it with your friends. Reallyhope you enjoyed this. Give us
some feedback. Reach out toSantina. Tell her what you think
you send her an email, sign upon her newsletter, on her
website. I really hope that oneday I get a chance to practice
with her in person, but this isthe next best thing, and I hope
you feel the same that you got aglimpse into the world of

(01:07:52):
Santina and and how special sheis and what she has to offer. So
on that note, thanks again forlistening. And every Friday, I
release an episode, so we'll beback. All right, take care,
enjoy.

(01:08:14):
Native yoga. Todd cast isproduced by myself. The theme
music is dreamed up by BryceAllen. If you like this show,
let me know if there's room forimprovement. I want to hear that
too. We are curious to know whatyou think and what you want more
of what I can improve. And ifyou have ideas for future guests

(01:08:36):
or topics, please send us yourthoughts to info at Native yoga
center. You can find us atNative yoga center.com, and hey,
if you did like this episode,share it with your friends, rate
it and review and join us nexttime.

Unknown (01:09:04):
Well, you know, you.