Todd Norian ~ The Tantra Revolution: Riding the Wave of Spiritual Transformation

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Todd Norian is a prominent yoga instructor and author, renowned for his teachings in the field of Tantra Yoga and his authentic approach to spiritual growth. As the founder of the Ashaya Yoga method, he encourages a heart-centered, integrative practice that fosters physical, emotional, and spiritual well-being. With over 40 years of experience in yoga and music, Todd's journey has been significantly influenced by his studies with various gurus, as well as his deep exploration and teaching of Anusara Yoga. His memoir, "Tantra: Journey to Unbreakable Wholeness," reflects his life's work and personal transformation.

Visit Todd here: https://www.ashayayoga.com/

Key Takeaways:

• Todd Norian's transformative journey in yoga began in 1980, leading to a lifelong commitment to spiritual and personal growth.
• Tantra is about embracing connection and vulnerability, encouraging individuals to face life's challenges with acceptance and compassion.
• Todd discusses the importance of navigating betrayal and disappointment as pathways to personal awakening and empowerment.
• The practice of Tantra involves a celebration of both the joys and terrors of life, highlighting the spiritual revolution of connection.
• Todd's teachings integrate the five elements, emphasizing balance and harmony between body, mind, and spirit for holistic well-being.

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Episode Transcript

(00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast,so happy you are here. My goal
with this channel is to bringinspirational speakers to the
mic in the field of yoga,massage, body work and beyond.
Follow us at @nativeyoga andcheck us out at
nativeyogacenter.com. All right,let's begin.

(01:04):
Welcome to Native Yoga ToddcastToday, my guest is Todd Norian.
He's an internationallyacclaimed yoga teacher, and he's
the founder of Ashaya yoga.
Visit him on his website,ashayayoga.com and pick up a
copy of his book, Tantra YogaJourney to Unbreakable
Wholeness, a memoir. Fasten yourseat belts. Let's begin. I'm

(01:29):
really happy to have thisopportunity to bring Todd Norian
to the podcast. Todd is theauthor of a book called Tantra
Yoga journey to unbreakablewholeness, a memoir and Todd,
I've been seeing you over theyears, and I've heard about you.
I've been seeing post over theyears, and it's really a

(01:51):
pleasure and an honor to havethis opportunity to meet and
speak with you. Can you tell mehow is your day going? What sort
of revelations have you hadtoday?
Oh, my goodness. Well, thankyou, and it's a delight to be
here. And I'm just enjoyinggetting to know you and the

(02:13):
conversation. And I am currentlydoing an Ayurvedic cleanse. I'm
in day four, and I'm starting tofeel really, really good, you
know. So I feel lighter in mybody. I feel open. I had an
incredibly beautiful and deepsadhana yoga practice this

(02:35):
morning. And regularly I do someinversions like handstand and
form balance and all that. Andtoday I kicked up enhancing
light as a feather. So I reallylike that, and it just tells me,
like, Okay, I'm aligned withlike, my body, mind and heart
are all lined up. I don't feelmuch stress at all. I'm not

(02:56):
resisting life. I'm just flowingwith the present moment and
trying to change with thechanges, you know.
Oh, yeah. How many years haveyou been engaged in yoga
practice in relation to yourmind? Recognizing there's a word
called Yoga, there's a thingcalled Yoga.

(03:18):
That's a great question, justhow you phrased it well. I
started yoga in 1980 so I wasgoing to school in South Miami
at Coral Gables, University ofMiami, nice. I switched there
from University of Michigan, soI was a music major in classical

(03:39):
piano performance, and kind offlunked out of that. And because
I love jazz, and I found thejazz school that was great,
which Miami had had, one that Ithink they're still pretty high
ranked school for jazz. Andright across the street from the
university was a yoga studio.
And I had just seen a friend inthe summer break before that. He

(03:59):
was back from college. I wasback from college. Hadn't seen
in a long time, and he wasradiant, glowing. I said, What
are you doing? And he said, I doyoga. And he said, I am doing it
at the Kripalu center. Says,Kripalu? What? And he said,
Yeah, if it's in Pennsylvania,that's before they moved to
their current location inStockbridge mass. Yeah, if you
ever, you know, come through,just call me up and you can come

(04:22):
and visit me. So he planted theseed of yoga. I didn't even know
what it was. And then Itransferred down to Miami, and
sure enough, when I saw therewas a yoga class, I went and,
you know, it was in so muchpain, like I'm so stiff at was
that I still parts are stiff.

(04:46):
And so it was like, after thistorturous class, we did
shavasana, which is, course,like at the end of the class,
and tears just exploded out ofme. And I was gonna what is
going on here, but theenvironment. Was right. They had
incense. They dim the lights.
They were playing. I'll neverforget the music, because I'm,
you know, like was a musicmajor. I was very sensitive to

(05:06):
vibration. And it was this pieceby a call from Paul Horn called
inside the Taj Mahal, which isrecorded in India, is just solo
flute inside this huge, youknow, Temple, and it had all the
overtones like, I don't know ifyour audience is gonna

(05:28):
understand what that is, but allthe jazz harmonies come from the
root sound of a tone, and allthese subtler vibrations that
that exist in the sequence ofwhat makes the sound a sound
were there, and I'm listening tothis and going, this is like the
intersection of jazz music,beauty and relaxation. And it

(05:48):
was the first time ever that Irelaxed, and I came into this
space of total acceptance, likeI wasn't trying to achieve, I
wasn't trying to become anyonein the music field, you know,
even now, but I think back then,especially, it was so cutthroat,
even though, oh, it's sorelaxing to play music. No, it

(06:10):
was like Doggy Dog, you know,competition, getting into the
best bands and getting chosento, you know, you know, travel
around with these big JazzOrchestra. They would come and
pick the university studentsout. You know, that's how
Maynard Ferguson picked hisband, and Buddy Rich and all
these older, you know, jazzbands, when they were touring,

(06:33):
they would come to the schoolsand get these guys that to it
for free. But anyway, it wasjust a culmination for me. And
it was the first time I actuallyfelt the presence of beingness,
just just existence itself. Itwas so ecstatic. And that was
it. That wasit. I can imagine, if that kind

(06:58):
of first experience, I can seewhy you're still practicing 45
years later, down the track.
And then from there, I went to Idid finally visit my friend. I
was driving from Miami up toRochester to go to the Eastman
School of Music because they hada jazz program in the summer.

(07:19):
And as I was coming back, Irealized I'm going right through
Pennsylvania, so I called myfriend and I went to a 10 day
retreat and stayed for 13 years.
Whoa.
Well, tell me about that. Whatdo you mean? What kind of
retreat center was it that youcould all of a sudden stay for
13 years? What are we talkingmeditation, yoga?

(07:42):
Well, it was Kripalu center backwhen it was really legitimately
an ashram with, you know, guruat the head practices. It was an
intentional community, and theyoffered programs and services,
you know, to the public whileliving a healthy lifestyle and
learning the yoga practices.
Whoa, soyou're with Amrit Desai then,

(08:03):
yes, and during the whole, thewhole thing, yeah,
that's why I had to write thisbook. And it wasn't just the
Kripalu thing, where I was therefrom the inception of it well
after the inception, but earlyon anyway, until it blew up, and

(08:27):
then I practiced Anusara yogawith John friend who I still
absolutely love and respect. Butthe same kind of founder scandal
happened and that community blewup. So two communities blew up,
the betrayal that I felt, thesadness, the loss, the grief and

(08:49):
but if it wasn't for those twoexperiences, I would not have
said, Okay, that's it. I'm goingto create my own method I create
you'll see in the logo in theback is a shy which means a bow
to the heart. So it's like Ineeded, sort of to get to the
that lowest level of suffering,in a way, to finally rise up and

(09:11):
and overcome my my shyness, myunworthiness. I talk all about
in my book how. I mean, I had afairly decent childhood, but
there was so much shame involvedin it, and a part of my journey,
like I say, journey tounbreakable wholeness, I was
broken with a feeling of, I'mjust not enough. I'm not good

(09:33):
enough. I flunked out ofclassical piano performance. I
didn't get into the number onejazz band when I was there, and
I didn't know what I wanted todo with my life, so I played
gigs, and I did that sort ofcommercial, you know, music
which all the jazz artists weredoing there to make a living in
Miami, playing Bar Mitzvahsweddings. And it was a crazy

(09:55):
world, but it's like, no, I I.
Something opened up in me thatsaid, I have something to offer,
and I'm going to do it. And Ijust taught recently about the
fire of tapping into ourpotential. Like, have you tapped
into your potential yet? Andwhen I asked myself that, I
said, No. Like, I don't think Ihave, but it took the fire to

(10:19):
actually embrace the hurdlesthat I had growing up, and I
talk about from losing twocommunities and all that, to be
able to come back into my heartand say, No, I have this gift. I
have this to offer, and then doit. It takes fire to change our
lives, you know, and to keepwalking in the direction of our

(10:45):
heart. And I feel like that's,that's the journey for me, and
it's joyous and terrifying.
Yes. Wow, great, great summary.
And I mean, should we keepgoing? I mean that that was
probably enough right there forall of us to be like, I think

(11:07):
you're hitting the nail on thehead. I mean, one, one thing
that I have to just bring to thepoint right away is that, prior
to our conversation, you made agreat little aside when I
emailed you, you said, Yeah,from one Todd to another. And I
just kind of laughed when I readit. And I thought it is funny
that, you know, we have the samename. So prior to coming in
here, I just thought, all right,so this idea of the order me,

(11:27):
like the cosmic consciousnessthat we hear about in, say,
tantra yoga, and if you know,what, if there was another
version of me out theresomewhere, you know, on some
level. And then, and then, andthen we, as we start getting
into understanding that we allare that same person in some
way, shape or form, just cominginto it through like a, like

(11:49):
this individuated consciousnesssort of thing. And then, so I've
also been through two communityscandals, first with Bikram, and
then with the stronger, youknow, staying with Bikram in LA
and with Toby Joyce and Mysoreand and having the same
realization that you're talkingabout of like the hurt. Can I
even move forward here? Andwhat? What do I have to move

(12:12):
forward with if the examplesI've been just shown were not of
a harmonious type of experienceand and so I love hearing that
you kind of pulled yourself upand said, I can do this, and I
can represent from my heart whatis true to me. And I'm and I'm

(12:34):
also guessing I get the feelingfrom you that there's a certain
level of ethics that you'rewanting to ride with. My
Yeah, I learned intrinsicallyjust from being on the other
end, the pain of thedysfunction, you know, at the
top, and it's the dysfunctionthat hurt, but it's also the

(12:58):
double life, you know, the lyingout front to create an image of
greatness while living just outof integrity behind, like, I
don't know what kind ofpersonality can live in two
states at the same I definitelycannot, you know. So it is

(13:18):
maintaining ethics, but there'sso much in this, because in
Tantra, boundaries are bendable,and boundaries expand barriers.
When you're just so rigid andthere's the barrier, they
preclude growth like there's nogrowth in a barrier. So the

(13:42):
Tantra is always going to helpus set the boundaries, but then
really look in and discern thenuances of context and situation
and all that. So it's I it'sjust a very interesting idea
about ethics, yes, and there aredegrees of nuance that might

(14:08):
make someone make a differentdecision. So, like, I
understand, you know, but beingat the effect of that felt such
a deep sense of betrayal. Now,some people feel betrayed, and
they close their heart forever.
They live a life of resentment,you know, and that never ends
well. It's just like eats awayat us from the inside. And I

(14:30):
think, you know, I say to mystudents, raise your hand if you
haven't been betrayed. Nobodyover 50 raises their hands.
Okay, all right. I mean, whatI'm saying is the younger ones
like they'll raise their Ihaven't been betrayed yet. I
said, okay, just wait. How oldare you? 21 okay, just wait. And
I don't mean that as a negativeforecast, but I'm just saying I

(14:53):
think betrayal is what the heartmust. Just go through to mature
and to be on its journey moreauthentically. So here's the
difference. I shifted betrayalfrom an impasse to a rite of
passage. And I think having thiscontext, and this is partly what

(15:15):
I write in my book, it's part ofthe tantra that I teach
everything in life is for ourawakening. And when I can take
100% responsibility for myselfand say and really mean those
words, everything in life is formy awakening, then how was that
betrayal for me for myawakening? It takes the blame

(15:36):
off them. I'm not condoning pooractions and people that abuse
other people. You know, I doknow that hurt people. Hurt
people. I do know that there's,there's an intensity of shame
that I can't even imagine, ofwhat's going on for them, either
from their childhood or pastlives or whatever. We're all

(15:57):
just trying to do the very bestwe can, you know, with good
intentions, but how can weembrace the hurdles that come
our way? And instead of beingknocked down with this attitude,
obstacles become opportunities,stumbling blocks become stepping

(16:17):
stones, and what you think of isa setback is really a setup for
a comeback, and this is how I'vebeen able to maintain my joy.
And it's not a superficial joy.
It's joy that embraces the griefand the sadness of the loss. It
is the embrace of light andshadow, the full spectrum, and

(16:40):
this is that unityconsciousness, like, yeah, we're
one, but in Tantra, it's a unit.
It's, it's, it's non dual thatis so united, it embraces
diversity. It's so full, itincludes lack. It's so perfect.
It includes imperfection. Soanother way to define sort of

(17:01):
like this, not to this non dualis the word Advaita, which means
not to. And it's the word usedto describe Vedanta. Advaita,
Vedanta meaning the non dualpath of the Vedas, you know, and
in the tantric interpretation ofthat word, Advaita, they shift

(17:24):
it from Advaita to advaya. Andadvaya means never without
duality. I see, it's a unitythat has to embrace the
polarities of life, the ups anddowns, the full spectrum,
instead of what we see asdifference is is Maya is an

(17:48):
illusion. You're making amistake, you know, like we
really are one and we're nottwo. And Tantra is saying, well,
we agree with the non duality ofeverything, but difference is
real. It's not a mistake, youknow, it's everything material.
Reality is the expression of thedivine desire to know itself. So
Shakti, Shiva can't even beperceived without Shakti. You

(18:14):
know, Shiva is Shakti space, andthe only way we can experience
sort of the the vastness ofconsciousness, which is really
what what Shiva represents, isthrough her. You can't get to
him except going through her.
And it's just a whole metaphorthat says that our humanity is

(18:37):
our divinity. And this is fromChristopher Wallace. This is as
God as it gets, you know, but,but, but, how do we actually
live that? So it's not aconcept. And here's how Tantra,
the revolution in Tantra, isabout connection, and it's about

(19:00):
turning towards ourself, towardslife, towards the world right
now, in the world, likepolitics, economy, so many
people just want to turn away,and, you know, stick our heads
in the dirt, but the Todd aresaying, No, you can't do that.
You need to walk towards it.
And, you know, we think of to besuccessful. Success is a win,

(19:21):
lose game, basically. But inTantra, success is defined as
vulnerability. Can you bevulnerable and connection? And
that's the revolution. That'swhat's different, and the

(19:41):
vulnerability comes back to alevel of acceptance that really
is infused with surrender. Whatis surrender? Is acceptance of
what is as it is. That's a bigleap for a lot of people.
That's a big. Sleep, isn't it,but at the same time as I listen

(20:04):
to it's so obvious. It's soobvious, like it just seems like
staring me in the face. You knowmore and more so lately, you
know why? Why was I? Why? Wheredid my skeptical mind? Lately,
I've been really trying toembody this idea of open minded

(20:28):
skepticism. Keep the open mind,but I also want to investigate,
and I want to test and see likeI don't want to just take it
that you told me. I want to seeif that's true for me, you know.
And so I guess when I saw thatone of your first chapters
before I say what the name ofthe first chapter is, and I

(20:48):
won't use any names here, justto be kind to everybody I went
to, I went to a Tantra workshop,and I had this initial idea that
it was going to be like someweird sex thing, you know,
because that was the only ideathat came into my mind from
other people, was like, that wasthe first response when I would

(21:09):
use the word or heard the word,it was like, it's associated
with this. So then I was like,What am I walking into? Is this
going to be something that Idon't feel comfortable in, and
how will I respond when I getthere and I'm not comfortable,
and all the stuff that we do inour heads when we're trying to
learn something new, maybe. Andso I had barriers, you know, I I

(21:33):
wasn't, but I was but I wascurious, but I also had already
put up a like a, this is how I'mgonna be. I already knew how I
was going to be. And um, and soit's been a journey, I guess. I
guess want to ask you to nowwhere I'm like, going, Wow,
there's so much wisdom in this,in this lineage, lineages, or in

(21:56):
this viewpoint, or so I guesswhat I would like to ask you is,
um, for the person that islistening with their core
skeptic, their skeptical mind,which I think is very important
to have, if I didn't have myskeptical mind, I don't know I'd
be where I am right now. So I Ithink it's important. But what?

(22:18):
How do you talk to the skepticbeyond what you just said to
help assuage any fear andnervousness about embarking on
an idea of potential realizationthat I am the Divine. I am a
manifestation of DivineConsciousness.

(22:42):
Well, I think a doorway thatmost everyone is looking for is
the idea that you're alreadywhole and complete, just as you
are inside, and that what weneed to do is bring our
awareness into the presentmoment with acceptance and so
much of the time we're harsh onourselves. We're the harsh

(23:06):
critic of ourselves, and most ofthe time we're either resisting
life or we're existing threefeet out in front of ourselves,
which produce a lot of anxiety.
I'm afraid of what's coming. I'mafraid of what's around the
corner. I'm afraid of what Icannot see, you know, or we're
living in a state of regretabout something we said or did

(23:28):
in the past. We're carrying aheavy weight behind us that
pulls us and you know, from myperspective, that's not a good
use of past, present and future,you know, but we do it. So the
tantra I teach is, how do youfind the place in the middle?
How do you come back to theplace in the present moment? And

(23:50):
it's just through understandingthat regret is subtly, our way
of changing the unchangeable,you know. Well, if I can regret
it enough, maybe it will changeand that underneath all of that
is really the source of allsuffering, is wanting what we
don't have or not wanting whatwe have. Those two things this

(24:11):
long for something more tocomplete me, because I'm lacking
or what I have. I really don'tlike what I have, so I want to
get out of it. So either runningtowards something or running
away from something, andremember, it's this. And I'm
saying Tantra is this. Tantra isconnection. So, you know, we

(24:33):
have discomfort with discomfort.
You know, nobody likesdiscomfort. Then I'll say, Okay,
come into pigeon pose like like,in a way, the yogi, if we're
doing Asana, we are trainingourselves to bring comfort to
our discomfort on a surfacelevel, physical level. But I do

(24:55):
that also emotionally. And Ithink this is how to. People can
understand the Tantras throughour body, through our emotions.
You know, because nobody wantsto suffer, nobody wants to be in
pain. We are all naturallylonging for freedom from
suffering. That's what broughtme to yoga class. I didn't

(25:16):
really even know that. That'swhat I was looking for. But
ultimately, that was it. I thinka lot of people come to yoga
when they've suffered a lot,they they don't have anything
left to do. It's like, well,I've tried everything else. Let
me try this yoga. So, you know,I don't jump to we're all gods

(25:38):
and goddesses in disguise. Youknow, Hafiz, the great mystic
poet, says, We're all we're allgods and goddesses in drag. But
it's too it's too big of a leap.
So I try to just invite peopleinto a Tantra, tantra as a
weaving. That Tantra means toloom, which is to connect, to

(26:01):
weave together, to integratebody, mind and heart. But Tantra
also means to expand. It'sitself and its opposite. It's
we. We pull in in order toexpand. We create the boundary,
in order to expand the boundary.
And then, you know, if I see I'mteaching and I see like they're

(26:23):
nodding their head a lot, likethey're with me, they're with
me, then I might jump tosomething like this, like, you
know, the the universe chose tolimit itself in you as you in
order to see itself. And thenpeople go, what does that even
mean?

(26:44):
It's good, though, that's good.
Yeah, you haven't seenyour own face with your eyes
like your eyes have never seenyour face. You can't Your eyes
have only seen the reflection ofyou. You look in a mirror, you
see yourself. It's not you, it'sa reflection. Or we have
friends, they reflect back to uswho we are. You know, I'm in a
relationship now, but I'm notmarried. But when I was married,

(27:08):
I would say, if you really wantto see yourself, just get
married, like just have acommitted relationship and stay
there. You'll see, I promiseyou'll see more about yourself
than you ever cared to know. No,and now I'm back in a beautiful
relationship now, and I welcomethe reflection like show me, you

(27:28):
know, and we do that for eachother, just it's so beautiful.
So yeah, and when we take sortof the universe, which think of
it as an infinite domain. Youtake a piece of the infinite
from the infinite, that piece isstill infinite, you know. So we
are the condensed version Earthis Sky condensed. We are the

(27:51):
limited version of theUnlimited, universal vastness of
all that is and in order to seeitself, it has to make itself
small. It has to separateitself, you know, and this, this
is really good, becauseabandonment is one of my issues

(28:13):
from childhood, you know, just,you know, I remember when I was
too, like my parents handing meoff to a babysitter, so they go
out to dinner, just looking verysimple. This happens all the
time in families. Crying my eyesout. I thought, No, I don't want
to let you both go. And Irecently had a revelation
meditation. I was clinging ontoa rope. It was like, you know,

(28:35):
the climbing ropes from Jim. Wewere little. I was clinging so
tightly. And I entered from myadult self, I entered into the
into the meditation, and I sawthis younger, less revolved part
of me, and I said, What are youclinging to? And instantly it
was, I don't want to lose myparents, you know, because I'll

(28:59):
I don't know I'll die. I'll feellonely, but it was like I was
holding on for my life. And Isaid, well, they may have left
you, but I'll never leave you.
I'm here. Look at me, and thislittle boy me, part of myself,
looked up into my eyes, and oureyes locked, and I felt him

(29:23):
myself release the grip of thethe attachment to getting love
in a certain way, and I justturned and I embraced and I saw
in my meditation, I was embracedmyself, and it was just it was
so beautiful. It's like a partof myself that was sort of
leaking power with this fear ofabandonment and it it would show

(29:46):
up in my life in different ways,you know, but but now knowing
that I'm never going to leavemyself, it gives me more
stability, more security, moreconfidence. Yes, you know, Wow,
that's good. That was good.

(30:08):
Great. That's what I mean byTantra. The revolution is to
connect and to know all parts ofourselves so that we can embrace
them all. Every part ofourselves has a seat at the
table. You know, that's anotherton of teaching everything
belongs, just a matter of whereyou place it. You know, dirt
inside the house is Dirt. Dirtoutside the house is soil. It's

(30:35):
supposed to be outside. Youknow, we don't eat from the
compost pile, but there arecritters that are eating from
the compost pile. We put composton the garden. We eat from the
garden, you know? So Tantra is,where do you place things?
Because everything belongs. So,you know, I say there's three

(30:56):
Tantra questions. I try to liveby these questions. Number one,
what does your heart most deeplydesire? Most people don't know
you know, yes and like, Well,what do you desire? What do you
want? I don't know. What is yourheart most deeply desire? Like,
what is your purpose? What isyour gift? We all have something

(31:17):
to what is the value of that foryou? Because not everything, not
everything we desire, is asvaluable as everything else. So
we have to discern what is yourheart most deeply desire? That's
of the heart. You have to lookinto the heart. What value is
that we have to discern. We haveto use our mind Make a pro con

(31:38):
list. You know, when there's bigdecisions, we have to know
what's if I say yes to this,what are the ramifications of
that? If I say no, what am Ileft with? And then choose, you
know, then the third thing is,what are you prepared to do
about it? And that's body,that's heart, mind, body that's

(32:00):
it just encompasses it all. Andas long as we're living from
that deepest desire of our we'removing in the direction of our
heart, happiness follows. But,but I mean real happiness. I
call it unreasonable happiness.
Oh, you know. And that's whyNataraja is dancing. You look at

(32:24):
the statue behind that's calledShiva Nataraja, Lord of the
cosmic dance. He's vibrating.
He's so ecstatically joyous, youknow. And he's dancing the
eternal rhythms of the universeinto existence, surrounded by a
circle of protection, of grace.
It's the Agni mandala, which isthe circle of fire. You know

(32:45):
It's fierce. You know fire ispurifying and terrifying at the
same time. So we live in theinfinite potential. All
possibilities are hell, and he'sdancing standing on the imp of
forgetfulness, which is, it'scalled the apasmara Purusha away

(33:07):
from remembering. And that impis our ego. You know, the whole
dance is predicated on the dancefloor, which is our back body.
Here. It's our universal side ofthe self that the ego. It's not
what's the what's in the way.

(33:27):
Ego is not a problem. Egoencounters the gift of our
embodiment. How to be yourindividual self, how to be your
unique I mean, I'm just unique,I'm weird. I've got OCD
probably, you know. But thething is, that's me, you know,
and and I've just embraced me,and the eyes of the ego, and

(33:50):
this is important, are lookingup at the lifted fruit of grace
that the ego is permitted tolive. But when we focus our our
our ego energy in service to abigger energy. You know,
greatness is knowing that you'regreater than yourself. And what

(34:10):
happens is, like in the Hindumyths and everything, the demons
have the same power as thedevas, as the gods, the only
problem is the demons want tosort of use this ecstatic joy
for themselves. It's verynarcissistic. And they, you
know, use cruelty for crueltysake anyway, where the Devas or

(34:34):
the gods are using the same kindof power to promote good, you
know, to promote equality, to,you know, uplift the experience
of humanity.
So, wow, man, you can, I don'tknow if I should interject. I
think you could just keep going.
And I'm enjoying listening thatit's good, man, I can feel

(34:57):
you've been. You are in thephilosophy. You're living it.
It's not just a conceptual ideaat this point. It's a it's like
you're putting it into the tothe practice. Do you
know Todd? Yeah, it's, well, Ihave to just say, like, Yes, I'm
living it. And guess what? I'm astudent forever. Oh yeah. And

(35:19):
I'm a recovering perfectionist.
So when I when I hear theteaching you are perfectly
imperfect, just as you are, itkind of gives me permission to
be myself without dimming itdown, or without needing to
change anything about myself orbecause I'm not pressuring

(35:39):
myself, I feel free to changemyself. You know, instead of
shaming myself, it really is howto embrace what's there. And I'm
perfect today, I'm going to beeven more perfect tomorrow.
Perfection is not the end of thegame enlightenment. There's not

(36:00):
a goal line that once you crossover it, you're enlightened. If
you sit like booted it for 40days, 40 nights, you'll get
enlightened too. It's just, it'sa concept of, there's arriving
and journeying at the same time.

(36:25):
But there's no final arrivalwhere now you're done, because
that would really be a place togo like I want to go there. So
that's, you know, taught in thepath of the renunciate. You
know, the where it's really thethe rejection of the world,
rejection of desires, rejectionof our humanity, because that's,

(36:47):
that's what's in the way. Theproblem is you, I mean me, you
know. So then we want toeliminate and extinguish the
flame. Nirvana means theextinguishing of the light. We
want to extinguish it, andTantra, it just it's kind of the
same thing in Tantra, butinstead of emptiness, the other
side of that is fullness. Andwhat I've seen and learned from

(37:12):
the tantric scholars that I'dstudied with, they're just two
two sides of the coin, so it'sall good, like even those paths
of renunciation, which is like aone way ticket, up and out. They
want to get off the karmicwheel, because life is
suffering. We never want to comeback to this. So let's do good
now, gain our good karma pointsso we don't have to come back.

(37:36):
And Tantra is saying, well,souls tend to reincarnate, so
that's just natural instead ofgetting off the wave, we want to
learn how to surf the wave. It'slike, Yeah, this is the
revolution, a connection in.
It's not up and out, it's in anddown. You know, classically,
like in the tantric traditions,the renunciate path was

(38:02):
considered a higher path. Andthe householder tradition, which
is you and me, householder, yougo through family, you go
through the stage, you pay yourtaxes, you pay your bills, like
in the Tantra, that's not aninferior path. When I was living
at Kripalu, I was being groomedto become a monk, which is to
follow the SWAMI Kripalu was aSwami. He renounced the world.

(38:25):
That was like the wholetrajectory was renunciation. And
just before I took my vows, Igot married like I did, I did a
whole spin, no, and while I wasthere at the ashram, so
paradoxical. This is how, like,mind numbing all this is, oh my

(38:45):
gosh, the guru was married, hadthree kids, okay? He was having
affairs with all the women,okay? And not telling anyone.
And I didn't know. I'm so naive.
I didn't know until it came out,and then there were families at
the ashram. And I have a lot ofmy friends who were families,

(39:08):
but it was always taught to usthat the renunciate path was
higher and the family path, pathof marriage and householder, was
an inferior path. And for me,because I grew up with this
feeling of unworthiness andshame, I took it to the
spiritual practice. Said, Oh,that's not high enough. I want

(39:30):
the highest. So it was reallyattractive for me to do the
renunciate path. But now, afterhaving done both, it's like the
real work is relationship likethe real work is here. The real
work is isn't, is in the world.
So there's such a difference.

(39:53):
And I'll say one more thing thatI'm going to take a breath the
word samsara in the classic. Oftraditions means the disease of
worldliness that samsara is, youknow, like all life is like
samsaric in a way. But when youbreak down the etymology of the

(40:14):
word, some means bounded, okay,and sorrow is the spirit. So
when you define it like that,samsara means to be held back,
to be bound, to be limited bythe world. So if that's my
definition, I'm going to want toget up and out, because I want
to go towards freedom. Everyonedoes. You know the tantric

(40:38):
definition of samsara. Theydefine the part of that word as
to be nurtured by, to besupported by, to be uplifted,
upheld by, to be held by theworld, not held back to be held
by the world. So this whole ideaof samsara takes a completely

(40:59):
different it's an empowerment tobe in the world, because the
universe has our back, and lifeis always happening to us. Life
is always happening for us, notto us in a way. So it's the
Embrace again, the revolution isto be in connection, to move
toward life and freedomexpresses herself through

(41:24):
boundary, knowing that we createhealthy self boundaries to
experience freedom.
Well said, well said, I haveheard before that Tantra is it's

(41:45):
so interesting because, likewhat you said about the
renunciate path, I've wentthrough the same or similar type
of thought processes of my firstintroduction in When I started
reading was Wow, the the way togo is to be a monk and renounce,

(42:06):
and which I think is so kind ofcomical of the juxtaposition
that you said that the SWAMIslash guru himself was a married
Man with multiple childrenhaving multiple affairs. And so,
you know, that's just such aninteresting thing. And I can
see, and personally, I've had tolike, you know, you try to wrap

(42:29):
your mind around this, and youhear one thing out of one side,
and then you see somethingcoming out the other, and you're
like, Whoa. And so I had asimilar trajectory of like you,
like what you're saying, whereyou want. We want to strive
toward the best, highest one.
Because what else am I going todo? Man, I don't want to go for
the cheaper version. I'm goingto go for the bigger one. But

(42:49):
then, you know, there's this iAnd I remember when I first
started, then after that firstTantra experience I had, I met
somebody that was reallyinfluenced through the tantric
teachings from VajrayanaBuddhist practices and and he
started saying, Here, read thisbook and read that book and it
in. And I remember him saying,this, this one is the one that

(43:12):
is considered like the highestTantra, like you really you
won't get it until you're readyto get it, but you might as well
just go for it anyway, becauseyou're probably gonna get it. So
I think how many people now I'veread about how, say, 1000 years
ago in the in India, that therewas a flourishing tantric

(43:41):
community. And then I learnedthat there was a flourishing
tantric community in Indonesiaand Bali and in multiple places
around the world. There wasthese. And I get, I guess I even
read recently that uh Bhutanpotentially might be one of the
last big uh tantriccivilizations, so to speak. And
so the thought of a community ofpeople, like a larger community,

(44:08):
like a like a city of peoplethat are all orientating
themselves toward this view. Andwhat would it be like to be born
into that, as opposed to, I cansee, like what you said, in
relation to the birth that wetook here in the US, and the
way, the cultural dynamic ofwhat we've been inundated with

(44:33):
since we were children, to thencome into or to find Tantra,
it's like, wow. This is sodifferent. This is so different.
This is like, the total oppositeof everything I was taught when
I was growing up in Catholic,Catholic school, or going to
going to church so and, wow,this is really cool. This makes

(44:54):
perfect sense. How come? How didI not see. This. How come it
took me so long to come acrossthis? This is unbelievable, so I
guess I sometimes, and I don'teven know if it's a worthy thing
to investigate, but I wonder ifI will be born again in a place
where it is a fully thrivingtantric community, and what

(45:16):
would that be like? You know,would would I, because I grew up
in that, be attracted more tothe renowned see a path because
it was something different, orwould I just fully embrace that
and then live a, you know, aclassically tantrically
orientated existence of justfeeling the bliss of everyday

(45:39):
existence. So I don't even knowif I want you or need you to
answer that, but I guess I justwanted to give you a chance to
get your breath, and I'll fillin a little bit of space for
you. And and then, and, or didit? Did it? Did it bring up any
ideas for you when I went thatdirection? Yeah.
Well, you know, there's thingsthat we cannot control that's

(46:02):
part of what the terror is. It'sthere's a celebration of life,
absolutely, and then there's aterror of not being in control.
And the embrace of both of thosethings at the same time is
really what the path is. And so,you know, we can, you know,

(46:23):
reflect and contemplate if we'regoing to be reborn again and
where, and I think, in general,and this is what I've heard from
my tantric teachers, is thatsouls are evolving. So it's not
the case that they actually comeback into lesser beings and all

(46:46):
that. But I think there'sprobably a structure and some
organizational thing that's inthe subtle planes that I have no
idea about. So I didn't reallyeven want to go there, but what
I do know is how to achievedeeper vitality in hell,

(47:09):
emotional agility and aspiritual heart that's open,
where we know ourselves and weand we're aware When we put the
shield up and we're aware whatit takes to lower this yield.
We're aware how to, you know,open to a bigger energy as

(47:30):
needed, and to understand theimportance of all that. And so
that's what I try to do. Like tolay out in my book, tantra is
really not anything differentthan just living a healthy, well
adjusted life where you aremeaning to do well, and we do

(47:50):
make mistakes. So then how doyou how do you cover mistakes,
like I think relationship is,either you're creating a new
one, you're repairing what'sthere, or you're letting it go,
you know, in each of thosephases, you know, like, how do
we how do we embrace that? Howdo we go through those stages

(48:12):
more gracefully, you know, andcertainly all the stages of
life, you know, how how are weintegrating and processing our
childhood. And do we even look?
Most people don't even know. IfI say, well, describe doing the
nature of your less revolved,wounded self. They go, what I
don't you know. And I did awhole course with the Douglas

(48:36):
Brooks, is the tantric scholar.
I studied well him and Paulmother Ortega from Blue throat
yoga. There are other scholarsas well, so I've studied with
many of them. But Douglas,Douglas will say, Oh, I just
lost the thread in that. Whatwas I talking about

(48:58):
just before that? Well, youmentioned about in relationship,
we're either creating,maintaining or dissolving, you
know, and so I don't know ifthat's the part that you were
going toward and or I'm withyou. I know. Good luck. I mean,
do you remember what show youwatched on Netflix last night?

(49:19):
Heck. No man, I'm joking. No, Iknow that's the beauty of this
is I think we can, just like,try to grasp at it and but I
understand what you're saying. Iget what you're saying. I think,
Well, you were kind of goingdown the track too, of
recognizing your teachers. And Ithink that's a really

(49:41):
interesting thing to do. Youalso mentioned that talking
about children, our childhood,and have we? Are we? What was
our wounded or what part? Andsee if I can say it the way you
said it. You said, I like theway you said it. You said, can
you look at side of your.
Childhood that did experiencethe challenge. And what

(50:02):
relationship are you in withthat part of your childhood,
exactly? And that reminds me ofwhat I was wanting to say, which
was the course that I taughtwith Douglas Brooks. We do
various courses over the year,but this one was the spiritual

(50:22):
warrior, stand in the gift ofyour wound. It's the whole idea
that in Tantra, if we're notwilling to open, you have to
open to the wound first, whichis terrifying. I mean, it's so
scary we need courage to lowerthe shield. The shield like like

(50:46):
takes the place of courage. Ican't protect myself, so let me
just close everything down soI'll be safe. Courage to lower
the shield to be vulnerable. Sofirst we have to open to the
wound, and once we do, then howdo we stand in the wound to get

(51:06):
the gift of the wound? Becauseeverything in life is for our
waiting. What is the gift? Youknow, and that's what I mean by
having a deep connection toourselves. I said, like
emotional agility. It's it. AndI, I've studied a lot about
psychology and emotions, andthere's an incredible author

(51:27):
called Dr Susan David Harvard,Professor. Her book is emotional
agility, and she talks about,how do we move through our life
with a little more freedom? Thisis she's teaching the Tantra,
you know, and certainly we haveto let go of resistance. So we
need to learn how to bringcomfort to our discomfort, so

(51:49):
how not to resist when somethinghurts and we come to realize
that the raw emotion, like wehave an intense anger or intense
grief, the raw emotion onlylasts approximately 90 seconds
after that. It's the story wetell ourselves about that
emotion, that that's what welive. And the way I say it in my

(52:13):
book is we are meaning makingmachines, and it's not so much
the trauma. We all have traumaswith small t, with a capital T,
we all have these, these wounds,you know, greater or smaller,
it's not that we have wounds,it's the meaning we assign to
them that we live in, you know.
So Susan David talks about, weneed to bring the three C's to

(52:41):
our emotions. First iscuriosity. When we have a
feeling deep inside, can we justbe curious about it? Curiosity
can only happen when there's nojudgment, you know, like, what
is being curious? Well, Ihaven't made a decision yet. You

(53:02):
know, I'm not judging it. It'sopenness. Compassion is the
second one you know to havecompassion is, you know, we can
only give compassion anyoneelse, to the extent that we can
sit in our own darkness. That'swhat I'm talking about, like
these spiritual thresholds, orspiritual powers. Be with us.

(53:26):
Can you sit with yourdiscomfort? That's compassion
and then courage, and that is,you know, to then do something
about it, and we learn morepositive ways of expressing or
discharging the emotions. Youknow, I mean, processing is one
way, but meditation is another.

(53:48):
Journal writing is another. I dovigorous exercise that just
helps me to reset, you know,something that I'm worried
about, and it brings insight. Ofcourse, I use my yoga practice
all the time to evolve myinsight about something. And
then, if we can just be open tolearn from our emotions. The

(54:08):
emotions turn out to be ourbody's guidance system, you
know. So we bottle them. Wedon't want to deal with them, so
we put it in a bottle, cork it,put it on the shelf, and it's
like, you know what happens whenyou pickle something, right?

(54:29):
Yeah, it turns more and more andmore sour. And that's what
happens if you don't deal withit. It festers inside. It
becomes an irritant inside. Ifwe don't bottle it, we tend to
brood, meaning we recycle itover and over again,
perseverating over and over. Sothat's what I mean. Like Tantra
is it embraces the yoga of thebody, the yoga of the mind, the

(54:53):
yoga of the emotions, and, ofcourse, the yoga of the heart,
which is why ashaya really meansthe. Abode, the safe space
inside, the place where you putyour deepest secret treasures.
You know, there's like an altar.
We put the crystal, you know, ofour essence, on the altar of the
heart.

(55:16):
Oh, man, I hear you that. It'sso cool. I think the the work
that you're alluding to, inrelation to healing childhood
wounds, is so deep and powerfulin in this full in this view, is
there, and you made mention of,say, the renunciate idea of,

(55:40):
like, let me off this wild ship.
The whole idea is, this ship isa little wild. I'm on off, and
I'm gonna, I'm not gonna, like,you know, I know I can't just
get off. I gotta do the work toeventually get off and then not
have to come back. And then,from what I'm understanding
within the tantric view, I'mwilling to ride this ship as

(56:01):
long as it takes, and maybe Idon't even need to be on this
ship anymore, but I think I wantto stay on the ship, because
there's so much glory, so muchjoy in seeing other people on
the ship too. And how can I beof service to the other people
on the ship that are strugglingon the journey and the
satisfaction that comes from,how do I get through? How can I

(56:24):
get through? And then,obviously, there's this idea of,
like, Okay, I'm still doing mywork because, boy, I'm still got
a lot of work to do. I feel it,I see it. I'm aware of it, and
like and my wife lets me knowabout it very regularly. So, so,
so, but at the same time, Iguess, oh, man, for me

(56:48):
personally, one of the bigrevelations has been I really
wanted off the ship. I wanted todo anything to get off the ship,
and I couldn't see the reasonwhy I'm on the ship. What's the
purpose of this whole ride? Ijust I'm over it. And then with

(57:09):
digging down into this practice,I'm starting to see there's a
reason why I'm on this ship. Andthis ship is really amazing.
Having begun to see all there isof the sea on this ship, I've
only been this one little cabinstuck and there's a board over
the window. I mean, I want toget that board off. I want to

(57:31):
look through that portal now,but, but even within this room,
there was so much stuff I wasn'teven looking at, and so it's
like, I'm not in a hurry to getthe portal open, but wow, just
the thought that the portalcould open, oh my gosh. Okay,
I'm ready. I'm ready, but I'm alittle nervous. I'm a little

(57:52):
nervous. I got to be honest withyou, I'm a little I understand
what you're saying about thefear part, like of the what does
that mean? What will that mean?
Well, you know, it's a littlebut at the same time, I'm feel
like all the messages that arecoming are saying, Don't be
scared. Just go man, just go forit. It's gonna be
you are in the tantricrevolution to embrace

(58:17):
uncertainty, to embrace thecelebration of life along with
the terror, you know, and it'sthat's the journey. And why? Why
are we here? Well, why isNataraja dancing the in eternal
rhythms of exist, of of theworld into existence for the

(58:38):
play of it. You mentioned it forthe fun of it, for the joy of
it. He's doing it for the play,you know. And I also believe
that here, first of all, youhave to go through to get to it.
And you said, I want to gothrough it. That's the tantric
way. And we're here to turn paininto beauty. We're here to

(59:05):
transform the experiences thatwe're having of negativity into
positivity, or to transform touse whatever comes to us as a
means to go higher. So you know,I wouldn't want to invite all

(59:25):
the negativity to come to you,like, hey, come get me. You
know, it's, it's not like,little bit at a time, yeah,
yeah. When you, when you feelsome serious pain, you're like,
Yeah, I don't, I don't need sothen I guess what I'm very
curious about then, isKundalini, you know, because I,
you know, I first heard, becareful what you wish for. And I

(59:51):
think that's kind of what maybe,potentially, you're alluding to.
If you get too much, too fast,if you if you see a little too
much. Much. It might be intense,and it could be a wild ride. And
then when you are having momentsof the realization of this,
like, like, I love the veryfirst when you just started in
terms of the idea of boundaries,but then opening, like, you know

(01:00:13):
you're setting the boundary, butthen you're also wanting to
expand the boundary. So I thinkyou dance to that first
component of the world ofjudgment that comes up when
people start, you know, thinkingabout, well, look what they did
and how they didn't conductthemselves well, and blah, blah,
blah. So I guess on, on the theKundalini side, and, wow, I

(01:00:36):
really want that experience thatsounds cool. I keep reading
about this thing they all talkabout. It's wrapped around three
and a half times at the base,and eventually it comes up and
it pierces all the chakras andwild energy, and maybe I'll see
or feel something that's gonnabe better than what I'm already

(01:00:57):
feeling and seeing right now.
And then this like, whoa, holycow. I feel like I gotta
breathe. Whoo. This energy isintense, man, I just gotta
breathe. Like, what do I do withthis? Like, and so I'm starting
to think maybe that is theKundalini. But you know, what is
your take on on what do I whatdo I? Please tell me

(01:01:22):
it's a big topic. From thetantric perspective, everybody's
Kundalini is already awake,awakened, and it's just a matter
of degrees. Kundalini is what'sbreathing you. It's the name of
a goddess. Kundalin meanscoiled. And as the myth goes,

(01:01:44):
it's coiled in the Muladharachakra, the base chakra. And
when it starts to awaken,meaning you, your spiritual
perception opens, the veilsstart to thin. We're starting to
see the truth of the reality ofwhat is as it is. This is the

(01:02:04):
definition of surrender, like Isaid earlier. And when that
happens, supposedly thisKundalini, which is depicted as
a snake, or serpent, rises upand pierces the first three
chakras, which is kind of coolin a way, like there's so much
symbolism of what those thoseare considered our worldly

(01:02:25):
chakras. But they really give usour foundation, our feeling of
connection and safety, which isthe first chakra, our feeling of
desire and intense longing forsomething more, like the itch of
desire and to recognize thatthere's not just you, there's
other people, so that weexperience this kind of

(01:02:48):
relationship in a way, and thenit's like a polarity, like the
second chakra is more of apolarity when it moves up to the
sixth chakra, which is depictedby two petals, that polarity
becomes integrated as a unity.
It's like, this is where we wesee a unity that includes
duality. But here at the secondchakra, there's still, there's

(01:03:09):
good and bad, right and wrong,there's like, this polarity
thing going on, and then thethird chakra is it penetrates
the self. So it's like the thirdchakra is the ego, but it's also
our individuality. And when theenergy moves up there, we just
awaken to our capacity to beourselves. You let the sunshine

(01:03:31):
of your personality expand, andit's all okay. And the Shakti,
or the Kundalini will rise allthe way up and pierce all pierce
all the lotuses. So I had a veryintense Kundalini opening
experience, which is whatfacilitated me after the 10 day

(01:03:52):
course, staying for 13 years,because everything opened and I
discovered brand new values, andI was able to let go of my past,
even let go of my family, to anextent symbolize by taking a new
name and all these things, youknow, and I always say, like,

(01:04:12):
when you're in the path of yourheart, be careful, because
you're going to disappointpeople, Not intentionally. But
then I'll say, Well, if you'renot regularly disappointing,
others who might you beregularly disappointing, and it
comes back to start findingyourself live your life. Yoga
gives us permission to be selfish, to understand, to fill our

(01:04:37):
own tank. And then from there,of course, we want to give, but
can we give from the overflow sowe don't over give and deplete
ourselves, and nor do we want tolive under our parents
supervision forever or livingtheir dreams. And my dad was a
musician. Was was I trying tofulfill his dream of a music. He

(01:04:57):
was upset when I, you know, Iwas invited to go back to do a
free fellowship for my master'sdegree program, and I turned
down my professors because Isaid I found this yoga thing.
I'm going to go live in a yogaashram, and I certainly
disappointed my parents, but Iwas able to go back, and once

(01:05:21):
they saw after a few years, Iwas so healthy, so healthy, so
happy, then they started doingyoga, like I pulled them along
with me, because I was sostrong, so sure every cell of my
body, and that was from theKundalini awakening, where every
cell is pointing in thedirection you want to go, and
there's absolutely noresistance, nor did I have much

(01:05:43):
social awareness, as you'll see,because I went into a very deep
yogic state, went up to themountain behind the ashram in
Pennsylvania, took off all myclothes because I needed to be
natural man. Had no idea what isI was doing, and stuck naked,
walked back to a celibateashram, and there I was natural

(01:06:07):
yogi. And luckily, theadministrator saw me and swooped
me into the brothers barn. Atthat time they called the
brothers barns. What are youdoing? I saw that I was, I was
in another reality. You know? Iwas like, God, intoxicated, and
it so I would say, yes, that wasan intense experience. It took

(01:06:31):
me some time to get down. And Iwon't give it away, but there's
a whole chapter of that in mybook that really, as I reflected
back later after thatexperience, I could discern that
whole time. I felt protected bygrace, even though it was just
this bizarre thing that I wentthrough. And after that, I was a
different I was a changedperson. So this is our

(01:06:55):
potential. Kundalini can come asan insight that changes your
life. It can come as you know,of depression or a grief, a loss
that was so deep, you comethrough that, and suddenly
you're a brand new person youknow, so or it can come and mess
with the mind, and sometimes, Imean, there's a fine line

(01:07:17):
between us, you know, akundalini experience and a
psychotic event, a psychoticepisode. And people can read my
book and they'll say, oh, yeah,he had a psychotic episode. I
could have told myself thatstory, but the meaning I chose
to make of that was, howeverpsychotic it was, there was a

(01:07:38):
spiritual component to it, andit shifted the entire rest of my
life. 45 years later, I'm like,you know, hopefully I like Sam,
helping people and helpingothers who have sometimes those
confusing experiences. So thepractices that I teach now help
to regulate the opening of ourconsciousness. You can call it

(01:08:03):
kundalini awakening or whatever,so that it's gradually and in
Tantra, we don't want a fullblown experience of it. Look at
Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita. Hesaid, Krishna, show me your true
form. He said, No, you're gonnalike you're gonna
have a Hendrix Experience, yeah,yeah, in 11. Krishna says, Okay,

(01:08:24):
I will show he opens his mouthand Arjuna, like, what's his
Doti? Like, he couldn't, hecould not handle it, you know,
he pooped his pants and and itwas, it blew him away. Said,
Krishna, close your mouth. Ilike you much better as a mortal
friend. And Tatra is saying,Hey, we don't want enlightenment

(01:08:47):
all on see if that's even athing. We want to unwrap the
gift of life slowly to savoreach awakening moment that we
have, you know, on this journeyof the heart. And that's what
makes it so sacred, so special,you know. And so the

(01:09:12):
slow unwrapping, and I becauseyou had a big unwrapping, and
have learned from it. And I lovethat you're you've been able to
integrate it to the point of,you know, recognizing it, and
now, from the angle of teaching,to be able to help others unwrap

(01:09:38):
slowly, you know, slowly,gently, gently, listen, yeah,
the whole,the whole method that I teach,
like in the asana portion, let'ssay it's composed of the five
elements, and one of theelements I focus on is Earth,
because we are embodied beings.
There are many yoga systems.
It's all sky, it's all air, andsky just float up away. Do yoga
to relax, even down to theanatomical, physiological

(01:10:02):
embodiment of my method, I havepeople hug in with the longing
for freedom. And when they hugin, their muscles contract,
which is what muscles aredesigned to do, and it feeds the
bones. They get healthier, theyget more stable. Aches and pains
go away because suddenly thefascia is coming closer to the

(01:10:24):
bone, which is what healing,what needs to happen, like if
you injure yourself, you wrapit, to get the fascia and the
prana and the blood and all thatto hug more, to engage more in
that area. So my method reallyit, it's, it's subtle. I don't
usually tell people this, but weare the embodiment of the five

(01:10:47):
elements, and the Asian methodis a step by step method to
assist that of embodiment, youknow. So right now, I'm teaching
in my membership on the fiveelements, and so we did sky
consciousness the other day. Andsky is like you know. Do you
give yourself space to makemistakes? So sky is space, you

(01:11:11):
know, or are you heart youcontract down on yourself? Do
you feel a sense of freedom inyour life. You know, Are you
tapping into your fullestpotential? Earth is Do you feel
grounded, steady and stable? Andso when we use our muscles in
that way to pull in, it helps usbe able to expand out more

(01:11:36):
fully. And this probably is notgoing to make a lot of sense,
but that's how stars that's howthe elements are formed. That's
how a star shines its light.
Light isn't coming out of thestar. The light is happening
from nuclear fusion in the coreof the star. The star is
connecting. The star is doing aTantra. It's looming itself in

(01:11:57):
order to expand. Andyou are making sense. Todd, I
understand why you would saythat, because I know what it's
like when you start coming intothis field. It's like a, whoa,
like it's a, it's a, it's a bigit's a, it's amazing. And so I
understand what you're saying.
Why you would say it's probablyisn't even making sense, like

(01:12:20):
what I'm saying right now, butit is making sense. It's making
perfect sense. So I think you'redoing I don't know. I just
really appreciate, first of all,I know we're kind of traveling
into the world of like time I'mon a time schedule, and I looked

(01:12:44):
at the clock, and I'm like,Whoa, this is good. We got a
whole hour and 15 minutes, and Ihaven't once looked at the clock
yet. And so I guess in theattempt to, well, maybe I don't
even need to attempt to closeanything. What's the point of
closing a conversation? Let'skeep the conversation open. I
mean, I think tell my Iseem to say that might feel like
some kind of a completion thathas to do with the stars and

(01:13:10):
this idea of contraction. So theuniverse, in its vastness, is
already expanded. It seeks tocontract, to know itself so it
becomes us, but in ourfiniteness, our longing to
expand and experience, ouruniversal nature, our experience

(01:13:30):
that is unbounded, ecstaticfreedom, we are also wanting to
expand, you know, from ourlimited state into the universe.
So there's this exchange. Theuniverse becomes us. We wake up
at our individuality and we wantto expand, to become her. And
it's the symbiotic beauty thatwe are both ourselves and each

(01:13:56):
other. We are both universe andindividual together, embodied.
We are earth and sky, and earthand sky come together in the
heart, and this life on Earth isa journey of the heart.

(01:14:18):
Beautiful, amazing I want torecommend all listeners. I
recommend you to get a copy ofTodd's book, all the links for
everything that we discussed,I'll try to include and then go
to Todd's website. And it'sobviously really easy Todd, to

(01:14:43):
study with you, because we livein the this, this era where
we're in the era where it'spossible now. I mean, gosh. I
mean, I can't even tell you howgrateful I am for computers and
and and technology to beevolving. On this level to where
I feel like it's rapidlyfacilitating growth. It's

(01:15:05):
unbelievable. And I used toalways look at these things
like, oh, stay away. That'sgoing to be the thing that ruins
humanity. No, no. I was lookingat the from the wrong angle.
It's actually helping. And soany anywho, without going too
crazy on that track, but I am sograteful. Todd man, I knew this

(01:15:26):
was going to be amazing, and Ijust, I just, I can't wait to
meet you in person. I definitelywant to, I can't wait to read
your book. Thank you for sharingit with me. I you know I'll go
on Amazon and purchase a copy.
You were kind enough to just togive me one, and I want to
support you. So I reallyappreciate you know you sharing
it with me. That was generous,and I Well, hopefully let's do

(01:15:48):
this again, because orsomething, let's collaborate
together again. If it's apossibility, I'd be I would love
to, and I really valueeverything you said. I'm just so
grateful for all the time anddedication. Think of all the
different things you could havedecided to do otherwise you
could, you could have like, Idon't know if you decided to

(01:16:11):
become a I don't know somethingdifferent, but you're sticking
with yoga and teaching, andthat's a big deal 45 years. I
mean, it's hard sometimes, andyou think I should have, should
I done something else? What didI How in the world did I choose
this and and I think, no, Ithink this is the path, man,
this is the stuff to stay onright here. So I'm grateful for
you being so dedicated. Thankyou.

(01:16:36):
Well, thank you so much. It is asacred journey that we're all
on, and I appreciate just youropen heartedness and your
receptivity and all that you'reputting forward to expose your
people and expose the world withthese teachings. And I really
appreciate it. I feel such agreat heart connection with you

(01:16:57):
and and we're the Todd men bothsame name and similar
vibrations. So I wish you allthe best, most success, and I do
hope we can connect to beginreal soon.
Thank you, Todd, native yoga.
Todd cast is produced by myself.

(01:17:19):
The theme music is dreamed up byBryce Allen. If you like this
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want more of what I can improve.
And if you have ideas for futureguests or topics, please send us
your thoughts to info at Nativeyoga center. You can find us at

(01:17:43):
Native yoga center.com, and hey,if you did like this episode,
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