Vahid Coskun ~ Two Seconds to World Peace Through Breath

Episode Transcript
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Todd McLaughlin (00:33):
Welcome to Native Yoga Toddcast. So happy
you are here. My goal with thischannel is to bring
inspirational speakers to themic in the field of yoga,
massage, bodywork and beyond.
Follow us at @nativeyoga andcheck us out at
nativeyogacenter.com. All right,let's begin.

(01:05):
Hello. Welcome to Native YogaToddcast. My name is Todd
McLaughlin. My guest this weekis Vahid Coskun, I'm so happy to
have him here. Check him out onhis website,
wellnessassemblyservices.com, hehas a book called Practice

(01:27):
Beyond the Posture, and you canfind that in the link below,
click it. Check it out. I'llalso have his instagram handle
there. You can go ahead andfollow Him. And wow, we covered
a couple of really interestingtopics of conversation, and I
can't wait to hear what youthink. My goal is to interview

(01:48):
as many different people with asmany different backgrounds, with
as many different viewpoints andideas about yoga so we can get a
taste and a flavor for all thatis available here in the world.
And I think one of the maintaglines that I really enjoyed
out of this conversation was,"Why does meditation not work?"

(02:10):
Hopefully that intrigues you.
Let's begin. I'm so excited Ihave this chance to meet and
speak with Vahid Coskun. Thankyou so much for joining me. How
are you feeling today? How'syour day evolved so far?

Vahid Coskun (02:27):
Thank you very much for having me. Todd, I'm
I'm pretty excited. This is agood chance to get to know you
have some chat, and ideally, outof our conversation, people will
be able to reflect on their lifeand take some get some
takeaways. Yeah,

I agree. You know you are the author of a
book called practice beyond theposture. Meet yourself through
the mental dialogs of yoga andstay in charge of who you are.
Can you tell me a little bitabout what your process was in
writing this book? Or maybe letme start off, let me back up a
little bit. Can you tell me alittle bit about like this

(03:05):
synopsis of how you approachyoga, and speaking about yoga
and yoga practice through thisparticular book?

I think this particular book or this
perspective on yoga practiceevolved over the last 13 years
of me teaching, and we know theBikram style, I just learned
that you were, you were veryclose with that kind of yoga
style, too. So when you firststart teaching, there's a

(03:36):
dialog. Everything is said. Sothere's a certain level of
military attitude, liketotalitarian regime. I tell you
what to do, and you say exactlywhat I say, which works, which
works for some people. I'm notsaying it doesn't work, yeah.
But when you do that and itdoesn't work for certain people,

(03:58):
you have to think I was like,ah, like, Is yoga not for
everybody? Is what I am doingwrong, because as the person in
authority of the class, thatwill also put you in a different
place, yeah. So after maybe two,three years, now I'm comfortable
teaching. I know exactly what tosay. I could teach even in my
sleep. So my insecurity of doinga good job in class vanished,

(04:23):
and I could just be present. Youknow, I didn't have to be a good
teacher. I didn't have to be abad teacher. I could be
whatever. And in that presentmoment that I was there in the
moment enough to not worry aboutwhat I was doing, because
everything was so automatic, Icould start to observe other
people going through the dataexperience. And the beautiful

(04:45):
thing is, it's the same likewhat you go through in life is
what I go through. It's the samething. I think the alienation we
feel is because we focus on thediff. Differences of what is so
good. You know, I was like, ah,that person's life is way better
than mine, this and that, but wedon't really think that, hey,

(05:08):
that person has the samesuffering like I do. It might
not look the same way. We mightnot be suffering in the same
exact moment, but in general,the guardrails of our experience
is so similar that I would seesomebody in class suffering and
being hard on themselves. Youknow, they are going through a

(05:29):
hard time, but they are alsothinking themselves into a way
that doesn't help theirsuffering. So the process of
this book or the mutation of myteaching evolved out of
compassion, in a way, becauseyou see some like, if you see a

(05:49):
kid hurting themselves becausethey take the rake and then keep
putting it like, into theirhead, and they don't correlate
the fact that hey, because theyare pushing at the bottom of The
Rake, that's why the city ishitting them. I'm basically
initiating people to think thathey, like this is where you
step, and that is theconsequences. So that space in

(06:12):
the room in which I was able toobserve somebody in their raw,
naked thoughts, and then be ableto knock them down, because it's
also very hard to say it inclass, like there's 20 people,
30 people in class, and I stillhave to teach the other 29
people, but I have to saysomething to you which will make
sense to everybody. What willtake too long? You will get mad

(06:34):
at me, because I'm I'm talkingtoo much. Yeah, I understand. So
basically, I took it I wrotedown. I take another case. I
wrote it down. I saw anotherallegory. I wrote it down for
five, six years, and when Igathered this all together, it
become, it became a veryrelatable source for people to

(06:56):
give a language on theexperience that they are going
through. You know, like, justsaying it sucks is not enough.
Like, yeah, this sucks, and thisis how I handle it. So maybe we
layer the emotions, or we layerthe experience.

Great point that's amazing when you how do
you observe students and knowthat they are being hard on
themselves. Is this through adialog that you have either pre
class, post class, or maybe evenduring, or are you able to
observe body language that isrepresentative of perhaps a

(07:36):
negative mindset?

I think it's both, in a way that first, I have to
be comfortable with myself. Ihave to be I had, I must have
witnessed what they are goingthrough, in a way, in my own
experience, like because we canlook at a spectrum of colors,
and if you don't know any colorbefore green, you will only see

(08:03):
three colors. And if you canrecognize, I was like, um,
there's another break. So Ithink there's a little bit of of
that is bandwidth, or being okaywith what is rather than it's
like, Ah, I'm such a goodpresenter, I cannot be nervous.
So if I think that, then, whenanxiety arises in my body, I

(08:26):
will either disinterpreted orneglect it. So there is so many
parts of me that I stopneglecting, and I could look at
it without a non judgmental.
Let's put it that way, nonjudgmental point of view. Then
I'm like, oh, okay, this is whatI go through. This is what I
think in that moment. And whenyou look around with that lens,

(08:49):
everybody's going through thesame thing. It's like you look
at the child and the child isabout to hurt themselves, or the
child about to do somethingthat's not really what what is
good for them. Is this mindreading, or is this experience
gathered into a very organizedpattern? I don't know, but I

(09:14):
think it's, it's it's kind ofboth. Yeah, I'm not going to say
that I'm a mind reader, yeah,but if I think I read your mind
it's mostly true.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense, because
you're drawing from theprobabilities and the fact that
you're seeing that we all arethe same, more or less. That's
cool. Well, why do you think wehave such a hard time seeing our
similarities, and we tend tofocus so much on our
differences,

we like to be unique. I mean, come on, it's
that's, that's the paradox, likewe are all different, and the
fact that we are all differentmakes us the same, like we are
all spatial. But. Fact that weare all special makes us kind of
mundane, but Alan Watts saysthis the best when you can hold

(10:08):
two opposing truths. At the sametime, you have arrived at peace,
like you are a regular guy, youdon't matter in the scope of the
universe, but at the same time,you are the universe, like you
are such a unique, true humanbeing that is unignorable, like

(10:31):
you have treasures inside ofyou. But at the same time, the
guy right next to you has thesame thing too.

Yeah,

yeah. So it's, it's humbling. But at the same
time, kind of giving you theself respect and worth that you
have always been deserving of.
Yeah,

what type of upbringing did you have with
your since childhood? Did youhave a spiritually orientated
view of the world through thelens of your parents? Or is this
something that you feel like youwere so curious about from a
young age that you've pursued upto this point? So

like my childhood was, in a way, a little bit
organized. I had 30,000 eyes onme all the time because my dad
was working for a for thegovernment's religious
department. So imagine all thepriests in your little town
knows who you are. That guy wasme. Like all the Imams, there's,

(11:35):
there's, I don't know, 3000Imams, they will all know who I
am. So I grew up with a lot ofscrutiny, like scrutiny or with
a lot of eyes on me, but thespiritual side is more from the
culture there is, like in ourculture, from from the east.
Unreachable love is morevaluable than the love that you

(11:59):
can consummate. So in my mind,there was always this spiritual
shenanigans, like we would growup with the stories of Rumi or
other folklore tales, or theguys walking on water. So as a
child, I had big aspirations forenlightenment, huge, like, that

(12:21):
was my goal. I'm like, Okay, ifthe biggest reward in life is
enlightenment, which was trueand but it also comes with the
downsides of it, because youcan't really give up yourself if
you don't know who you are. Soit, it builds very good
foundations, but also lackscertain aspects, which is very

(12:43):
complimentary to Western world.
It's like you gotta be theindividual, but it lacks the
other side of the

spectrum. So true. You know, I love that you
brought up Rumi, because I canyou tell me, like, what from? So
you grew up in Turkey. What wasyour introduction to Rumi? Was
that something that everybodyknew who Rumi was, and he was
celebrating? Because I feel likeI had to be here. Someone had to
say, Oh, look at this book.
Check this out. And then Rumiblew my mind. I'm curious, is

(13:12):
that someone that is a is very

definitely like a big figure. So those are
essential Sufis, I would say,have a big, big place in
literature too. He'sunderstanding his sayings, or
come, whoever you are, like,those kind of what is this main

(13:37):
media phrases are, like, havealways been around, yeah,

that's cool.
That's cool. Yeah, awesome, man.

So he's one of the most misunderstood guys too,
because of, I think most of theEnglish translations of Rumi,
especially about Coleman Barks,have been very de islamized. De

islamized, like they, like, love, the Islam
component out of Rumi'slanguage,

completely, completely, like, even, even,
this is also, in a way,dangerous, because, like, one of
the things I read beyond therighteousness and like doing
right and doing wrong, there isa field I will meet you there.
It's like, when you hear this,always like, Oh, this is so

(14:26):
spiritual, so mystical, but itleaves you in a state of
ecstasy. But we are notbutterflies, like, you know, we
are human beings. It's so goodto feel that ecstasy, but it
still has to be relatable. Soone of the things that is
missing is, for example, in thatline beyond the righteousness
and wrongdoing, there is a placein which the seeker prostrate

(14:51):
himself. You just take that out,yeah, yeah. And then, like, he
just put so that virtue ofprostration is. Basically, like,
your submission to the higherpower. But you take it out
there, you just, like, give thewine, but there is no light
after it. So yeah, but it'sbeautiful. I think the way Rumi

(15:13):
opened the heart of people inthe West is is beautiful because
it at least makes you Hey, likethere's more, and I want it.

Great point.
Great point. Well, at what agedid you move to you and us?

I first came when I was 20, and I have been here
since I'm 26 so nice, nice. I'vebeen in and out for a little

bit. Can you tell me a little bit about what
you currently do? Do you beforepre podcast, before we hit
record? You said you live inWashington, DC? Yeah, and I have
from visiting your website,which let me make sure I get
this right, is wellness,assembly services.com and that

(16:02):
you do coaching for corporateindividuals, mindfulness
coaching for corporations andbusinesses. Is that, am I right?

Yes, that's weird, right? So after I was a hippie
yoga teacher traveling theworld, I like this is great,
but, you know, I look at thecalendar, it's not 1970s so I
thought I would changesomething. I stopped being a
hippie yoga teacher, and therewas a master's program in
Maryland, which is 40 minutesfrom DC. It's called Maryland

(16:35):
University of IntegrativeHealth. I did a master's on yoga
therapy and mindfulness, andthat switched my understanding
of everything. I was the guy whodidn't meditate because it
wouldn't work. I couldn'tmeditate just structurally it
wouldn't work. I'm alwaysthinking, I'm always reasonable,

(16:58):
I'm always headstrong, but doingthis masters, I understood that
wow, like there's another worldout there that's just as real,
if not more real, and there's alot of work to do there too. But
the problem is the Taipei guys,that is most of DC, does not

(17:20):
have a way of relating to thatmental side of the work without
things turning into fairy tales.
Energy. Work, Woody, Woody. Youknow, things get kind of out of
touch, especially how peoplerefer to this. Like, I am not
going to make you sit down andfocus on a beaming, radiant

(17:40):
light showering on you. If yourmind is running at the better
brainwave 5 million times aminute, but that guy needs that
the most. So I found the ways ofconvincing that guy into
relatable, tangible, executableinstructions, after which he

(18:03):
experiences that state of bliss.
And once he experiences once youwill do anything to get there,
then you will let the lightshine on you this and that, but
that first initial step ofbelieving that world exists is
the catalytic point. And becauseI had such a drastic experience

(18:25):
of like, Oh, am I going to paysomebody to make me breathe to
all like, the secret of life isin your breath, so I can cater
to that old version of me who isstill running and crunching
numbers and, you know, achievingeverything in their life, which
I think I'm a good match for it.
Yeah,

that's so interesting. I hear ya. Can you
share a little bit about whatyour first experience having a
professional gig where you gotin front of a group of business
orientated individuals inWashington, DC, and how that
experience was for you. I hadone. I had one really amazing

(19:08):
experience, opportunity to goteach yoga to a corporate tech
conference. And I had a blast. Ihad so much fun. I was very
nervous going into it, because Ioperate in my own studio, and so
I'm everybody who comes in, Iknow they want to be here. And
so it's a totally coming out ofyour comfort zone to go into a

(19:31):
conference room in a hotel fullof folks that are looking at you
like, you know that you can, youkind of get the sense that they
already have this idea in theirhead that it's going to be a
woo, woo, we kind of experience.
And so to win them over was, wasjust one of the highlights. So
I'm curious what what are, whatwas your first experience like,
and what drives you to continueto do what you do?

I think my main drive, like everybody has
insecure. It is nerves, this andthat, but the way I write it off
is, if I'm invited, I just haveto be invited at the position
that I'm at. I'm not a salesman.
I can't make you my client. Ican sell this HR, this program,
but when I'm invited, that's howmy first experience was it

(20:19):
wasn't in DC, actually, it wasin Washington. It was in New
York City. I just met a wellnesscompany that they signed a big
contract with, MTA, theMetropolitan Transportation
Authority, huge place, and youhave to work with bus drivers,
just trained the conductors andthe people at the headquarters.

(20:42):
They put me into theheadquarters. I went there, and
it's like the Wall Street. Sothere's tables over tables with
little cubicles, and everybody'srunning, everybody's screaming.
That is the control center ofMTA, and I was the third guy.
The two guys before me, theycame out, they had one hour

(21:05):
shifts in in the room. Theysaid, Oh, like, nobody wants to
meditate. We just go there. Wesmile. I did one person. The
other guy said, I did one personand one group. And I'm like,
What is wrong with this. Like, Ijust walk in there and I'm just
excited, like, these guys areme, you know, that's the 2027,
version. Warhead is 50 yearshere, 40 years old lady there.

(21:31):
55 years another guy here. I'mlike, Oh, I have to talk to
these guys. I sat down withthem. I just sneaked into a guy.
I said, How's it going? He said,Good. How are you good they have
meditation thing. Do you havetime for that kind of with the
good stuff? I told him. Hestarted laughing. He's like,

(21:51):
Yeah, it doesn't work. Like,what am I gonna do? I'm like,
it's nothing. I just basicallytold him that just when you are
sitting here, you hear thecrowd. Like, how far can your
ears stay? Like, can you theroom was very big. I said, Can
you pick up any sounds from theoutside of this room? And I cue
them into some numbers aroundhim. Like, is there any

(22:14):
different fonts? I basically,you know, made him check in with
his five senses he didn't know.
And I'm like, Okay. Like, comeback here. Close your eyes and
observe your breath for asecond. He goes like this. He
opens his eyes, he looks at melike, I'm a magician. Like, for

(22:36):
me, it's, it's trivial. Like,that's like, how you begin,
right? It's yeah, not even twominutes, the guy is like this,
and I'm like, Okay, enjoy this.
You can go back to work. Nexttable, next table, next table.
Nobody said no to me. I'veworked with probably like 29
people. I didn't when my shiftended, I didn't leave because
they were still working on,like, I'm gonna stay here. And

(22:57):
all of a sudden, I'm like, I gotthe key for these guys. And it
just snowballed from that

moment. That's so cool, man, that's so cool. So
like, just so I understand thesituation you it's almost like
you're walking in and they'resaying, Just go person by person
and see if they want to have youwork with them. And

so generally, how these things happen is the HR
wants to throw an event, andit's their responsibility to
make the event appealing, sothey put massage, meditation,
this and that. And what I do isI go in there and I just make a
party. I i It's very easy tointroduce everybody with the

(23:43):
massage therapist, but when itcomes to the yoga the
acupuncturist, it's like afarmer's market for wellness,
yeah? And then when people comein, you just have to see them
where they are and then offerthem what they need in a way
that they can accept? Yeah, Ican't. I can't tell you to do

(24:05):
childhood work, or I can't getyou onto a meditation or a
acupuncture table if you don'tthink you need it. Yeah. So
whatever you need, like my team,is very intuitive in terms of
looking at you, forgetting aboutthe structure and then giving
you what you need. So that thatprogram was just one service of

(24:30):
that bigger company wasapplying. Now I translated it
into my way of better way in DC.
Most of the time I don't workwith that schedule. It's very
good, but most people can'treally kind of sneak into your
subconscious brain like I do. Sowe we either do group
meditations, or I would workwith their key team members one

(24:53):
on one. It's a little bit morestructured, but everything in.
Person, I have zero professionalthings for the companies online.

That's so cool.
Do you You said my team is this?
Is this your company? And you'veput a team together now, so
you're more or less in charge,and you're the one that's also
going to Okay, let me back up.
Do you to get jobs? To get work?
Because I want to, I'm kind ofputting, I want to put the hat

(25:25):
on of thinking of maybe a yogateacher that lives in an
environment where there are alot of professionals that are
contemplating what it would belike to create a business career
like you have out of this. Whatis the process of gaining
clientele, like, what or arepeople seeking you because

(25:46):
you've already done a goodenough job in New York and
you've done a good enough jobhere that now you've been able
to have people contact you. Butwhat does this process look
like? How could this unfold formyself or somebody else curious?
I

honestly I need mentoring myself in terms of
selling. I spent two years,Brian, Tracy, Jim Rohn, just the
top G's of of sales. I knoweverything about sales. My
system doesn't like sales.
Something intrinsically. I'm notthe person is like, hey, this,

(26:19):
this, this. But how my camearound is, first, those
subcontracts in New York gave mea very solid ideas like, Hey,
this is a way more stable way ofearning your life. And because I
have been making Dc for sixyears, seven years at that time,

(26:40):
people heard they're like, ah,that's so cool. Why don't you
come to my company too? It'slike, ah, that I heard about
that event. Would that be okayif he did something here? So
it's just word of mouth for me,very cool. And the bigger team
is anything mindfulness ormeditation related. I do it. I
teach the courses. I do one onones. And when I get those

(27:03):
wellness party day at the officeevents, then I have to branch
out. And I have a lot ofsubcontractors. I have my
massage therapists,acupuncturists, nutritionists.
Then we go to the office and doa four hour, three hour event in
which all the employees areinvited to come learn about
their health, get a little bitof a massage, do a little bit

(27:25):
meditation. Those are more likeHappy Hour events that the
companies are doing, but kind ofregretting doing it. So this is
a true gift to their employees.
Kind of brings people back intothe office and anything else,
I'm basically in charge. That's

cool. You teach at a yoga studio in DC as well.
Correct?

Yeah, I hear my staple studios, the studio that
I teach mainly I was a 22 yearold young boy teaching yoga
there, so I have been there forfor a long time, and a very dear
friend of mine has anotherstudio in DC. So I do still
teach in the studios, but it isa to help the studio, because

(28:16):
when I'm around people gravitatetowards it. B It also gives me
new opportunities to meet newclients.

That's cool.
When you are working in thecorporate office environment, do
you sometimes let people know ifyou'd like to continue to
practice? You could comepractice with me at Tuesday at
10 o'clock or something likethat, or maybe because it's nine
to five, maybe like, Tuesday atlike, eight o'clock at night,
yeah, I'm guess, like, do you

do? I do invite people to the studios, not
necessarily my classes, yeah,because my my classes are great,
but if I'm teaching once a week,it's not enough for you. So I
try to drag two people to thestudios, and it's like, hey,
like, some people will love thisperson's class, some people will

(29:06):
hate Just don't ask anybody howthis teacher is. Go take two
classes. Have your own inventoryof who you like, what you like,
try it all. Yeah, very cool.
It's a unique experience. Like,I remember one time I came out
of a class. I hated the class.
The teacher spoke too much ofjust the pitch, the tone,

(29:29):
everything. I don't thinkobjectively. There was one thing
to like about the class. I comeout this other lady comes out of
the class. The teacher comes outof the class, and this other
lady sincerely complementingwhat kind of a great class it
was. And I'm looking at her, I'mlike, is she lying? No, she

(29:50):
believes it. She had the bestclass ever, and I had the worst
class. So I'm like, okay, like,you know, there is no object,
objective reality. Already

here. Yeah, yeah. You know, that's so
classic. I When you were tellingme that story, I remember taking
a hot yoga class from somebody.
It was at B crumb studio in LA,and he was in the teacher
training, and he was, it wasalmost like he was an auctioneer
cartoon guy. It was. And Ithought the same thing. I came
out going, that was so obnoxiousand and I had every other people

(30:23):
go, Wow, that was incredible. Soit is classic, isn't it? Do you
held up your book earlier, andyou showed me Eagle Pose.

Yes. Which pose would you like?

Eagle Pose?
Let's just start there. Youshowed me you have, has a line
drawing of garudasana, Eagleposture, and shoot out

to Taylor castle.
She did, she did all thesedrawings. Very

cool. Amazing.
Anybody that's listening can goto our YouTube channel and see
why, showing us right now. Andso, can you tell me a little bit
like what that particularchapter talks about and or that
particular pose. So I have anidea. We have an idea of maybe
one of the storylines that youfollow in relation to coaching

(31:11):
us to have how we can work withour mindset. Yeah,

like this pause is actually has two reminders,
because it's at the end of thewarm up, you still have ample
energy in your body. You feellike you can conquer the world,
but the dialog gets verydetailed now, and you haven't
been paying attention to yourbreath, but you still want to do
a great job. It's so true. Andin the background of your mind,

(31:44):
it's like, this is talking abouta battle in the background of
your mind, is this, yeah,basically, your heart needs the
energy because it has to pumpthe blood. Your muscles need the
energy because they have tostructure your body. Your brain
needs the energy, because youare doing something very

(32:06):
sophisticated, like everything,1234, so basically four times
you are trying to cross themidline with your limbs. And in
this this is like a betaversion. In order to be in this
moment, you have to be in yourbetter brain waves, because
there's just too many variables,too many thoughts. But also in

(32:28):
the back of your mind, this istalking about the generals are
fighting. What is, what is thegood alignment? How do we engage
the body? What do we do with theshoulders, with the hips? But
you also want to do the perfectEagle pause, what is good? Am I
good? What is the best way ofdoing this? And this scene which

(32:48):
everybody goes through, and thenthey think that, Oh, I just
started thinking too much. Isjust a scene. And in this moment
is one of the first reminders toHey, when this is all going on,
you have to really be a masterof multitasking. What is
multitasking? You are relaxingthe right inner thigh, but

(33:10):
contracting the right outerthigh. You are contracting the
entire thing in your body, butkind of creating space in your
shoulders. You are working veryhard with your body, but you
kind of have to keep a sereneplace in your mind. So in this
pose, I think I'm diving alittle bit deeper into those

(33:31):
dialogs. Yeah, it says like,what is good enough? What is
good for? Who does the body haveto be suffering to be able to
feel like it's doing goodenough. What is sufficient? Is
survival sufficient? Yada yadayada. What defines good? When

(33:51):
that ramble goes, yeah. And ifyou are not paying attention to
it, it becomes your reality,

true. Great point, I mean, and

when you know it's just like another folder, just
another tab running, but thenyou bring the tab back into the
browser in which the video andthe sound effects are the same,
then you feel better. So I'mbasically it's so easy to say
that, Hey, pay bring yourawareness to your breath, bring
your it's almost boring for meto tell you to bring your

(34:23):
awareness to your breath,because it's just so easy, so
vague, but in that moment when500 other taps are running and
you are barely surviving,there's only one thing you can
do, like, Hey, pay attention toyour breath. Like, come back to
the center.

Yeah, good point. I like the fact that
you're bringing some of thenuance into the amount of energy
we have at that point,especially when you're in a
really hot room and you're justgetting started, and you know
that you have the balancingseries that's about to follow
one thing. I thought one thing Ithink is really interesting

(35:02):
about the way that Bikramsequenced the postures is that,
and I like to juxtaposition withother styles or other traditions
in the way that they decided tosequence their their standing
poses. And I like the fact, Ithink what's what's interesting
in relation to him taking usfrom Eagle into standing head to

(35:23):
knee, standing bow and balancingstick where you're doing these
really long holds on one leg.
And then he takes us into thewide leg stretching poses like
the triangle and the wide footstretching pose and the standing
separate leg head to knee. Canyou what is out of those three
standing poses that I justmentioned, the standing head to
near standing bow, or thebalancing stick. Can you give me

(35:44):
an idea of what ideas you putemphasis on in your book in
relation to

for those three, I think the biggest part is focus,
and I make a parallel in termsof how to, how to refer to your
own thinking, like you areinvesting your money. You know,

(36:10):
if you have $1 it's worthless.
You know, what are you going tobuy with $1 but again, if you
put that dollar into an accountnext day, another one, so your
tiny little bit of changeeventually, with with consistent
effort, becomes a little bit ofa saving. Oh, you have $100 now.
You also get $2 dividends on it.

(36:35):
You know, it just becomes,eventually, your little change,
if directed or invested in theright place will give you means
that you would not be able toentertain before and in the same
way, your attention is like $1one second. Here a sound comes.

(36:55):
I looked at I go on to thereels. Four seconds, four
seconds, four seconds. So I'mjust scattering $1 bills all
over the place. But when youaccumulate these little bits of
attention, you cultivate a stateof focus. It's a different
thing, like $100 million is notthe same thing is $100 million

(37:21):
one dollars, 100 although it'sit's the total sum of all. It is
something different. It's thesame I live 24 hours, but 24
hours of doing 24 thinkdifferent things, versus 24
hours of doing just one thing.
It's not the same thing. Yeah,it's like, the multiplier is not

(37:43):
24 it's it's 24 million timesmore. So the main reason,
especially on the back become,would always say, these poles
are balanced and now, but it'smore like about your willpower
and our willpower is with it. Wedon't know where it is, so I'm
telling you, by bringing yourmind to your right leg, you are

(38:05):
teaching your mind how to turnattention into focus, and this
will translate to everythingelse in your life.

Yeah, great point. And I like the fact that
you're creating relatable. Like,obviously, if you're working
within the business world andyou use an analogy about
dollars, people are like, Oh,now I know what you're talking
about. Like, speak more aboutthis, right? Versus, if I don't
know, you get a little moreesoteric and start talking about
the subtle body. It's just notgoing

Unknown (38:39):
I love that stuff. I love it. Yeah, very cool.

Your Manomaya Kosha is experiencing the
trouble.

Great point like so, can you speak a little
bit about the importance ofreading your group and then
knowing how to connect, becauseyou made a comment earlier where
you said, not everybody knowshow to get into the subconscious
of other people's minds the wayI do, or like maybe. So I'm

(39:16):
curious if you could, and I likethat you brought attention to
that, because there is a realart to being relatable, and the
fact that you brought the wordsubconscious, because I don't
know how me, how often do I, asI interact with someone, the
first time maybe I come incontact with them? Am I aware of

(39:36):
what sort of subconsciousinteraction we're having? The
surface level that's pretty easyto pick up on. So can you talk a
little bit more about yourunderstanding of what it's like
to connect with others?
Subconsciously,

it's burdening in the beginning, it's so basic.
Let me honestly. Literally

tell you, did you say burdening? Like it's

a burden burdening, yeah, it's Yeah.
Burdening is hard if you don'thave your own Yeah, boundaries.

Okay, good.
Great point, yeah. But please dotell me. Please be honest and
tell me how you get I want to

hear Yeah, yeah.
So like, you know, in thepsychological world, trauma,
trauma sensitive, childhood,this and that, I all respect
that. But at the same time weare, we are in such desperate
need of finding an enemy to feelsafe, and the enemy becomes the
trauma. Oh, I have this trauma.

(41:21):
I have that. Everybody has atrauma. So basically, my
childhood trauma brought me tothis place in which, if I didn't
understand the state of mind youare in, my survival would be
threatened. There is the teacherwalking the teacher is a very

(41:43):
moody teacher, and the teacherso we have a saying in Turkey,
take my son. His bones areyours. His flesh is mine. So
basically, excuse me, his fleshis yours. His bones are mine. So
basically, the teacher can dowhatever they want with you, if
you didn't memorize, if youdidn't study, if you didn't do
whatever. And my survival as mychild was like, nobody likes to

(42:09):
be beaten up, right? And I wouldhave to know your mood in order
to be safe. This is why thereare empaths. I'm like, I'm such
an empath, I feel everythingdeeply. Yes, you are because you
had to as a child for your ownsafety, but like now I'm an
adult, and I would still walkinto the room and feel the

(42:32):
cringe this person is goingthrough, feel the suffering that
person is going through, or feelthe joy that person is in. But
if I don't know who I am, itimmediately like I will feel
like how you feel. I don't knowif you have been into like the
if you have looked into thehuman design kind of things in

(42:54):
terms of how you are as aperson, and not having that
boundary of hey, like, this iswhat you feel, and this is what
I feel, I would literally feellike you,

Unknown (43:09):
I see what

you're saying, yeah, yeah. And, and in the
beginning, I would come out ofthe class feeling like crap
because people had a crappyclass, or I would come out of
the class feeling like aSuperman because everybody had a
great class, but none of it wasme. I'm basically like a unknown
cup that is easily fillable fromany outside force, any outside

(43:34):
energy and outside mood orattitude. And I stopped being,
you know, overflowed by otherpeople, by a lot of isolation, a
lot of I spent, like, three daysin a cave. I spent 10 days
without food. And eventually I'mlike, Okay, this is who I am,

(43:57):
and this is what it feels likewhen something from me comes up,
and this is how it feels likewhen somebody fills me up
unconsciously, and thenunconscious world is very open
to being explored. Likeunconscious world doesn't want

(44:19):
to stay down, like they don'twant to stay in dark. Those
things want to come out to you.
They are beautiful. But becauseour consciousness is so hyper
focused on getting the money,getting the job, being like
Taylor Swift, or whatever, youknow, we are, like, so oriented
in something else that, yes, I'mnot even interested in me. Hey.
Like I have bad feelings. Oh no,like I have good nothing, like I

(44:42):
want to basically forget aboutme and be like her or be like
him.

Yes, yes.

So when I could contain my subconsciousness from
being felt or discharging out,because you also give away too,
I'm like, Oh, wow. Like, mostpeople are just, you know,
that's why people are friends.
Like, ah, I feel great with thisperson, because you just keep
bleaching their energy or givingyour burden to them. You know,

(45:12):
when somebody asks how we aredoing, I'm like, oh, like, I was
abused. I was this. How wasthat? Like, why are you
unloading on me right now? Yeah,yeah. So I think the
subconscious mind is a very,very beautiful place, but
everybody has to spend sometime, some time with

it. Yeah. Good point. Good point. I mean, this
is a great debate slashconversation to have, because I
was just having this the otherday. Yeah, with another yoga
teacher in relation to the waythings have evolved over the
last 20 years from, you know, Imean, oh my gosh, we could go
down a really interesting road,because if we look at the way

(45:53):
Bikram was and the way hetaught, I mean, it was, what's
the right way to say, Itypically use the same word, so
I'm trying to be a little bitmore creative. But it was very
strict. There was no coddling.
There was no at one point, Iremember, I was on the third day

(46:13):
of the training. I was standingup in the front thinking, I'm
going to try to do a good job.
And he held it so long in a poseand the standing head to knee
pose, that it was so hot that mybody started to cramp up after
the class, to the point where Iwas going into dehydration, and
my ears were like going, Wah wahwah. And all of a sudden I
stopped feeling like I was goinginto a black hole, and my whole

(46:37):
body started cramping up,fingers, toes, legs, arms, and I
started screaming, and someonedidn't know what to do. Everyone
looked at me. They're freakingout. Why is this guy losing his
mind? And I was like, literally,like, having a full body cramp
up, and it was really painful.
And so Bikram came over, and heput his hand on my chest, and he
was like, Get up, boss. Get up.

(46:57):
And I was so shocked out of mypain that I thought, I can't get
up, and there's a big circle ofpeople around me, and I got up,
and I followed him. We walked tothe locker room, and he looked
at me and goes, you look like ababy when you cry. And I was
like, Ah, okay. I was like, Idon't even care what you think

(47:22):
about me right now, I'm in solike, I was so like, I felt
hallucinating. I was in thisweird space. He was hard. He was
a hard teacher. Man. He was sobrutal. And so I guess my point
is Now, fast forward 20 years,and we have a lot of trauma
sensitive trauma, where teachingstyles that are very prevalent

(47:46):
now, which I agree with you, Iam right on board with. And now
I think we're in thisinteresting zone of somehow we
could benefit potentiallyblending the like I like what
you said, where you said, I can,I can feel your pain, but I

(48:06):
don't have to take your pain onor I can know I have my own
pain, but I don't need to dumpmy pain on you and in a self
awareness. So I think there'sroom for us to be trauma
sensitive and also a littleedgy, too at the same time.
Like, I don't know, what do youthink?

100% I think the biggest trouble today, which I
actually wrote somewhere in thebook, I don't know which
chapter, but the biggest traumatoday is trying to be trauma
free. Like, come on, you are nota spirit. Like, okay, you are a
spirit having a physicalexperience. But again, listen to
what you just said. You are aspirit having a physical

(48:46):
experience. Why do you discardthe physical part? Like this
physical world is messy. It hasproblems. You look at a forest,
and if you want to look somekind of an order in the roots of
a tree, you are going to loseyour mind. Like, I want a tree
without the bump. Like, are youasking to write something? You
know what? I mean, it became thetrauma. I'm gonna make my child

(49:10):
raise without any traumas, andnow that kid is traumatized. I
know because they didn't wanna,like, you didn't want them,
like, make a little better, youknow? Like, yeah, my did what my
dad did, whatever I did. Like,can I do? Yeah, a little better
than him. Yeah, I agree withthat. Like, good point. We have
been evolving for the last, Idon't know how many 1000 years.

(49:32):
Like, the evolution doesn't haveto stop with me. You know, I
should leave somewhere for myyoungest. What is he gonna tell
to his therapist? He shouldcomplain about me too, because
I'm a real person and becausehe's a real person, yeah? Like
we are not Virtual Realityperfections, you know,

agreed? Yeah, good point. Good point. Well, to
jump gears a little bit. I heardyou made mention. You said
earlier, before we push record,you said, you know, meditation
doesn't work. And I, and it kindof took me back a little bit.
Can you talk a little bit aboutwhat you mean by that statement?

Yeah, like most people that I work with, is just
sore, headstrong, that theystill believe so much in the
lifestyle that they have. Ishould put it that way, they
don't see any other way ofliving. There is only one way I
can only live if I'm working 14to 16 hours a week, a day, every

(50:38):
day, if I'm hustling, if I'mrunning from this. That this is
the only thing I know in termsof life, but you are telling me
that, hey, there's somethingelse. If you sit down and
meditate, your life will bebetter. So I try to sit and I
don't believe in that otherlife. I still want to do
everything that I want toachieve in this life, I don't

(51:03):
want to change anything, so justgive me the fix that I will do
whatever I am doing better. Idon't want to change I don't
want to change anything. I justmeditated 20 minutes this
morning. I said that I'm rich,I'm beautiful, I'm powerful. So
where is the money? Or like,when you like. If you sit, you

(51:26):
meditate, and if you stand upthe same person you didn't
meditate. If you sit, youmeditate, and then you stand up
a different person, then youmeditate. So when I say
meditation, don't workmeditation, don't work in the
lifestyle that you aredesperately or hopefully or
unconsciously trying to sustain.
It will not work in that matrix.

(51:54):
It will change your matrix. Itwill change your paradigms, but
not for that part of you, notfor the reasons you want it to
work in the beginning, you know,it's just like a drug.
Otherwise, I'm like in order todo what I have to do, let me get
that fixed. And most people withhot yoga too, hot yoga has a

(52:14):
very Druggy effect to it'sbecause it's very chemical,
addictive. It's so good, it'svery helpful. And no matter how
conscious or unconscious youare, you are going to have a
great feeling after class. Sothat's the problem with my long
time experienced students. Theyjust go in there, they do

(52:35):
whatever they do, they come out.
So they are just doing the samething they did 10 years ago,
which is the same thing as,yeah, like, this is how I
maintain the status quo.

Yeah, it's good point, great point. I agree with
you. Can, um, can you also youmade another statement too as
well that I thought wasinteresting, uh, mindfulness
regarding not being nonjudgmental. Or can you speak a
little bit about the role ofjudgment and our experience with

(53:10):
interaction with society.

I think just like spirituality, I love
spirituality, and I am aspiritual person, whatever. But
when somebody says I am, I'm afree spirit. I am spiritual. I
live a non judgmental life.
Something inside of me works.
It's, it's a very toxic idea.
Today. I'm not sayingspirituality or non

(53:37):
judgmentalism or anything is badwithin itself. It's just like
money. Money is not bad. Whatyou do with money is the result.
So if you are a free spirit, andif you are a spiritual person,
or if you are living a life nonjudgmentally, just so you don't
feel bad about a mistake youmade, I'll question it like non

(53:58):
judgment is not a life with nomistakes, free flow, going with
the flow. Non judgmental. Like,the understanding of non
judgments is very toxic you do,like, if you're a human being,
if you are living a consciouslife, you have to have a faculty

(54:20):
of discernment. We have to knowwhat is right like. I have to
know what is the good and whatis bad fruit. I have to know
what is poison and what isnutritionally feasible. But when
it comes to this, oh yeah, I didthis. I went through this toxic

(54:40):
relationship, but it was okay.
It was just so we are basicallygrowing intricate ways of
intellectualizing ourselves outof feeling guilt. You should
feel guilty sometimes. You knowit's part of the stigma. I'm not
saying you should be crippled byguilt, but you should feel

(55:03):
guilty if you did something bad.
You should resent something ifyou did something that's worth
resenting. So maybe that littlebit, I'm not saying you should
get stuck there, but you cannotimprove if you do not see or
recognize a mistake, if youdon't see that like, I'm not
telling you're a bad person, butyou did some very bad stuff. Who

(55:23):
is going to come to terms withthat? You can't, because you are
non judgmental. That means youhave zero discernment. You don't
want to look at your life andthen take things in charge. Is
like, okay, hey, man, we messedup. You. Know, I messed up 30
years in my life, which takes alot of gut to assimilate. It's

(55:45):
humbling. It's going back to thedrawing board. It's accepting
the fact that, hey, like, youare still a student in life. But
no, I there is no mistake. Whatis our guy? Our guys are
feelings. Now I felt like this,like the biggest justification
for something is, I felt like,well, I thought we were supposed

(56:07):
to not suppress the feelings.
That's bad, but also not. We arenot animals. We have urge
control. You know, there has tobe some, some criteria of this
fine experience of being human,which discernment is one of the
biggest essential parts of it.
So that's why I said nonjudgmental approach doesn't

(56:32):
work. I

understand that. Do you? Let me just throw
this out here and just see whatyour feedback is. If we look at
Old Testament, New Testament andthe Quran, there is judgment,
like there's a price to pay ifand then, as we're evolving,

(56:57):
there's a lot of the atheisticmovement is is growing in some
respect and and so there's maybea dropping off of a sense of any
sort of judgment that couldoccur at the time of our
passing. And do you think thatthat might be why there's a

(57:18):
little bit of a movement toward,let's all be just kind of peace
and love and not have anyjudgment. And I see what you're
saying where you know, to live ahealthy life, we need to have a
healthy balance of a healthybalance of judgment, a healthy
balance of guilt, a healthybalance of kindness and goodness
toward others and sharing, andthen also being able to stand

(57:41):
ground and know when we're beingtaken advantage of. So I'm just
curious if, in the relation tothe under that sort of
investigation of the evolutionfrom our original religious
underpinnings and where it'swe're kind of like, and I kind
of, and I get it, because I grewup in a very like, you know,
judgment base, you're going tohell, kind of growing, you know,

(58:03):
you do something bad, you'regonna pay forever, and you'll
never get out of that place,right? So, you know, so part of
him, at one point in my life, Iwas kind of like, I gotta leave
all that behind. I don't want tolive with all that judgment on
me, right? And all that, thatguilt, that Catholic guilt, all
that kind of stuff. How do youfeel? We could reconcile in our
modern world, a balance betweenthese opposing what seems like

(58:27):
opposing forces. Maybe they'renot.

I think the whole Democratic Party is running on
guilt. It became like, I cannottalk to a white girl without her
having to feel guilty. I'm like,come on. You know, like, guilt
is interesting. But going backto the religion, oh, man, I

(58:50):
just,

Unknown (58:51):
I know we're going to, like, really bad territory,

yeah, but please, yeah, go ahead and I was
gonna say, I know we're going toa tricky territory.

Let's go. I feel just so bad for God, because
imagine he's, like trying toconvey a message, you know, but
then this message comes throughwith other people, again,
people. So whenever there ispeople, there is humanistic
touches, like struggle forpower, for example, one of the

(59:19):
main things, you give manpowerand you see who he is. So I
think the distaste on judgmentis legit. It's reasonable,
because the religious peoplehave abused this power, like,
yes, you will go to hell, you ingeneral, unless you repent, you

(59:44):
know that's that's the thing,but you feeling guilty and
repenting and going back to thechurch is making me more
powerful, because I'm thepriest. So hey, like, come back
to me. I am the guy who tellsyou exactly what the Scripture
says, and you can understand it,and you need my judgments onto

(01:00:08):
you, because if you don't dothis, you are going to hell. So
because of a person, we hate itlike because somebody made a
very uncomfortable chair. Now wehate the forest and all the
wood. God gave the message. Hesaid, Hey, like, don't kill each

(01:00:28):
other. And then New Testament,as much as not killing each
other, also love each other. AndIslam came, don't kill each
other. Love each other and livein a society. Oh, hey, like, you
are using Android. I'm usingApple phone. He's using Nixie,

(01:00:50):
Google, whatever we all need anoperating system. And some
people can argue that Android,Apple, whatever, is better, but
in reality, they won't make thecall. Like, are you actually
calling with the phone, or areyou debating with other phone
owners that your phone isbetter? So like, in that same
case, I like that. It's not theproblem of the idea, yeah, it is

(01:01:15):
how religious people imposethose ideas on us so they felt
more powerful. Yeah. I like thatanswer, yeah, but 100% like
that, these taste for religiousjudgment I carried myself. I was
exposed to it tremendously, butat least for me, leaving the
environment that I was exposedto it, now I'm like, Okay. Like,

(01:01:38):
nobody tells me nothing, yeah,yeah. But like, What do I tell
myself, so, yeah, that that,that is the dialog. Yeah.

Todd McLaughlin (01:01:47):
Oh, man, Vahid, I really, I really enjoyed
meeting. I really enjoyed thisopportunity to sit down chat
with you, and I appreciate yourperspective. And thank you so
much for sharing it. And Ireally enjoyed, I want to get a
copy of your book and and Ireally, I'll send you a signed
copy. Let's put it that way.
Thank you so much, and it's beena great opportunity I hope, to

(01:02:09):
stay in contact with you. Isthere anything that you, ah, you
know, without putting pressureon you, but let me put a little
pressure on you. Can you give ussomething good to close with
that, let's go down the line oflike I would, I do want, I would
like to envision us being ableto get along a little bit better

(01:02:30):
together as a global community.
Is there anything you can, youcan share that you think could?
Could help inspire us to pull

Vahid Coskun (01:02:38):
that off? Yeah, we are two seconds away from world
peace, not too long, two secondsif everybody were to breathe or
were to exhale, two secondslonger. You know, my main
message is that, hey, like youare a very worthy person, you
have the hidden treasures of theuniverse inside of you, but it

(01:02:59):
just sounds too much. Soinstead, I think if you exhaled
two seconds long, that effectwill have overall lasting
effects in your nervous systemactivity, and that down

(01:03:19):
regulation of your nervoussystem activity will probably
eliminate 80% of the problemsand worries you generally have.
So very applicable thing, Ithink, like, did you want a
message? What did you want fromme? I

Well, yeah, that's that was exactly what I
wanted. I think just the simplefact that you said we're two
seconds away from peace. I mean,that caught my attention right
away. That's because, I mean,you know, our minds are so hyper
active. I thought you're gonnasay we're two seconds away from
destruction, but you actually,you brought us a little closer
in the direction I was hoping togo, that like, look, no, we have

(01:03:54):
enough. We have a grandopportunity. And and there's a
lot of hope right now.

There is man, the hope and peace, basically
anything else is a construct atthe bottom, it's peace. And then
someday we get tired of buildingtoo much crap and eventually go
back to

peace. Yeah. Oh man, thank you. Vahid, I really

thank you so much.
Todd, thank you. It's a pleasureto meet you. You

the native yoga Todd cast is produced by myself.
The theme music is dreamed up byBryce Allen. If you like this
show, let me know if there'sroom for improvement. I want to
hear that too. We are curious toknow what you think and what you
want more of what I can improve.
And if you have ideas for futureguests or topics, please send us

(01:04:46):
your thoughts to info at Nativeyoga center. You can find
us@nativeyogacenter.com and hey,if you did like this episode,
share it with your friends. Rateit and review and join us next
time

Unknown (01:05:15):
you.

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