March 19, 2025 • 43 mins
Imagine running your natural products business without the constant financial anxiety that plagues so many entrepreneurs. What if cash flow wasn't a mystery, and paying yourself was non-negotiable instead of an afterthought? That's the promise of Profit First, and our guest Ron Saharyan breaks down exactly how this revolutionary system works.
According to Ron, co-founder of Profit First Professionals, a staggering 83% of small businesses operate check-to-check, with owners often foregoing their own salaries just to keep the lights on. This creates a destructive cycle where entrepreneurs pour everything into their businesses while getting little in return. The Profit First methodology flips traditional financial thinking on its head by changing the formula from "Sales - Expenses = Profit" to "Sales - Profit = Expenses." This simple but profound shift ensures business owners pay themselves first and manage expenses within what remains.
The beauty of the system lies in its simplicity and psychological effectiveness. Using separate bank accounts for different purposes—profit, owner's pay, taxes, and operating expenses—creates clear guardrails that prevent overspending. When revenue comes in, it's immediately allocated according to predetermined percentages, removing the temptation to spend money that should be set aside. Ron recommends starting with just 1% allocations and gradually increasing them, making the system accessible to businesses at any stage.
For natural products businesses facing unique challenges around ingredient quality and educational marketing, Profit First provides the financial clarity needed to stay true to your mission while remaining sustainable. Instead of compromising on quality when margins get tight, you can make strategic decisions about pricing, positioning, and education that protect both your values and your bottom line.
Ready to transform your relationship with your business finances? Start small with just one or two additional bank accounts and experience the immediate relief and empowerment that comes with taking control of your cash flow. Your natural products business—and your personal financial health—will thank you.
Connect with us:
Email: info@naturalproductsmarketer.com
About Amanda Ballard
Amanda has worked in natural products marketing in the retail setting since 2016 and has a great understanding of the unique challenges and opportunities that retailers in this industry face. More than anything, she wants this industry to continue to boom and believes much of that success hinges on the ability of retailers to do well in their businesses and market their products effectively.
About Tina Smith
Since 2014, Tina has worked with multiple natural products businesses, discovering how to market their CBD products online, without having their payment processor shut them down, to letting customers talk about their health issues those products have helped them solve. She knows first hand how experts like you offer the best products and a superior customer experience, that is why she is committed to helping you find an easy way to grow your natural product business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ron Saharyan (00:00):
Yep, a couple of things.
My company is so unique It'llnever work.
No, it's not.
I've worked with you, knoweverything from startups to a
hundred million dollarbusinesses in almost every
country.
You know of every currency, ofany domain.
It'll work.
Okay, my company's too small,my company's too big, right?
(00:23):
So again we're talking there.
The best one is the best one.
My accountant says I don't needit, get yourself a new
accountant.
Tina Smith (00:39):
Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer
Podcast.
Amanda Ballard (00:42):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
Tina Smith (00:54):
Well, ron, it's so exciting to have you on the
Natural Products MarketerPodcast with us.
Profit First is somethingthat's very near and dear to my
heart, because it has helped mebuy a house, grow my business
and remain profitable in theblack so that I can reinvest and
(01:14):
create more and more growth formyself, and it's been something
that I've shared with othersover and over again.
So it's really turned aroundthe way that I do business in my
financials, in my own business,and it's changed the way that
I'm able to live as a result ofbeing a business owner.
So I love Profit First, but forthe uninitiated, we would love
(01:38):
for you to introduce yourselfand the process of Profit First
and what you're going to be ableto share with us here on the
show today.
Ron Saharyan (01:47):
All right, awesome .
Well, thank you Tina and Amandafor having me on the show.
My name is Ron Saharian and Iam the co-founder of Profit
First Professionals.
Profit First is a book and amethodology actually written by
my business partner, mike.
Written by my business partner,mike.
Okay, profit First you can seethe original right there behind
(02:08):
me if this is going to video,but if not, what Profit First is
not?
It is not accounting, it is notbookkeeping.
What it is is a system.
It is a system that is the mostneglected system in every
(02:28):
business.
It's an allocation method.
It's a system that residesbetween financials, which are
historical documents, andforecasting, which are hopes and
dreams.
Profit first is the ultimatecash flow.
Profit first is the ultimatecash flow system.
Yeah, so that's exactly what itis.
(02:48):
So when people say profit firstaccounting, I like to correct
them, because it's notaccounting.
How you do accounting, how youdo bookkeeping, how you do tax
is the same.
Profit first is a way to helpyou have financial clarity on
your cash flow.
Where are you spending it?
Where are you putting it in?
(03:09):
How much are you putting inyour pocket right?
How much is going to staff?
It prevents you fromoverspending.
It puts guardrails okay inplace and it's fashioned after
grandmother's budgeting envelope, budgeting methodology, right.
Tina Smith (03:29):
Yeah, I love that part of it, Ron.
So some people are going to belistening to this and thinking
what in the world are we doing?
Talking about money on thismarketing podcast?
And the reason is there are anumber of reasons, but first, we
are here to help you grow aprofitable business through
marketing efforts.
(03:49):
And second, if you don't budgetcorrectly, you won't have any
money to spend on marketing andto invest in the growth of your
business.
And third man, we want you tobe able to live well as a result
of owning this business.
So all of those things threethings come together.
(04:10):
And Amanda asked me one day.
She was like is there any waythat we can get someone on here
to talk about getting financialsright so that the people who
are owning this business canlive better as a result of
helping other people live betterlives with natural products?
And I was like, ooh, I knowexactly who we need to get
Profit First.
And I was like, ooh, I know, Iknow exactly who we need to get
profit first.
And Ron, just tell us a littlebit about the organization of
profit first.
So you're talking about asystem that can help you grow
(04:32):
your business profitably, butalso you guys have people who
can help people, who trainpeople in this process so that
they can help people implementprofit first in their business.
Ron Saharyan (04:44):
Absolutely, and I'm not an accountant, I'm not a
bookkeeper either.
I don't touch that stuff with a10-foot pole.
Most business owners don't gointo running a business because
they love accounting andbookkeeping.
They do it because of the loveof the product and those who
they're serving.
But unfortunately, in America,here, 83% of businesses are
check to check.
(05:04):
The small businessadministration classes.
Any business business under 25million is small.
I'd like $25 million smallbusiness personally, right.
But out of those, 83% are checkto check.
That means many business ownersare not paying themselves.
They're foregoing pay to meetpayroll.
(05:24):
Many of them are in debt out totheir, just get out of debt,
debt, debt, debt, debt, andthey're not profitable, right,
and so that's no way to run abusiness.
And, and so you know we have totake that back right, because
you know accounting ishistorical information but we're
living in the real world.
(05:45):
We need front windshieldapproach to information.
We need to be able to makedecisions real time versus
looking back and saying oops, Imade that mistake.
This is a way to correct it.
Ok, so where they say probablyin your business and most
businesses, they say cash isking.
Well, it's, it's, it is, butthere's something that trumps
(06:07):
that.
And, business owners, we doeverything we can if we're in a
cash crunch.
You're going to sell products,you're going to sell this,
you're going to do a fire sale,you're going to do everything.
We're going to get moneyinvolved and we're going to keep
the lights on.
But here's the problem If wedon't have the proper system in
place, we're going to be makingthose same mistakes, right, and
(06:30):
so that's why, year after year,businesses are on this
merry-go-round.
They're selling, selling,selling, incurring expenses,
incurring expenses.
They're not putting any more intheir pocket, right, or that
they're doing this.
So what profit first does is ittakes some very important
elements to a business and putsa spotlight on them.
The number one thing a businessowner should be doing is paying
(06:52):
themselves first.
If you're not paying yourself,that's crazy.
You're staying up later thananybody.
You're sacrificing more thananybody.
You need to pay yourself,otherwise you're going to resent
your business, right?
Two, expenses are out ofcontrol.
Right, we need to have a focuson what we're spending on and
(07:14):
get a return on it.
Three, we're not profitable.
But with profit, you can paydown debt, you can celebrate the
health of the company or youcan hire.
When small businesses can hire.
They relieve a lot of thestress from the helm, right?
Okay, and so what profit firstdoes is we're going to take a
few elements and we're going toreally look to make sure that
that's getting the spotlight Onethe owner paying themselves to
(07:37):
profit three tax.
Those are very important, okay,and so you know, one of the
things is is that the book isconceptually simple.
All we're doing is taking alittle bit of money and putting
it into a bucket right?
These buckets are bank accounts.
But, as you indicated, tina,the devils are in the details.
(07:57):
And so our organization, profitfirst professionals, is a
global organization.
We're in 40 different countries.
We have certified over 800accounting and bookkeeping firms
so that they can do this rightfor you.
You shouldn't be guessing onyour finances and you shouldn't
be working with somebody whoguesses on your finances.
(08:18):
You should be working with anexpert so that you can have the
clarity that you want.
And so my organization is amembership organization of elite
accountants and bookkeepersthat all subscribe to Profit
First.
They're running it in theirbusiness.
They go through three to sixmonths of certification.
They have to remain in goodstandings, their tests, their
(08:39):
quizzes, and they roll this outto all of their customers.
And so you know, this is again,I can't stress, it's not
accounting, it's not bookkeeping, this is a system.
So once the business ownerrealizes that it's a system, the
fear of numbers kind of isremoved.
(08:59):
Okay, but then it comes backbecause we are working with
numbers and percentages, right.
And so you know, my advice isto read the book, start small.
You know, one of the things isand I saw here that banks write
banks.
If you want to get into banks,I have a list of banks, but my
(09:22):
organization supports you guys,right, so all you have to do is
go toProfitFirstProfessionalscom,
fill out a finder and we willintroduce you to a certified
Profit First professional.
Tina Smith (09:34):
So, Ron, when I got started using Profit First, I
read the book first and Istarted these incremental moves
toward the percentages that youguys are talking about.
And just to kind of break itdown for the audience what we
are talking about.
And just to kind of break itdown for the audience, what
we're talking about is you havea revenue number and you have
some cost of goods, expensesthat come out of that, and then
you're left with what your realrevenue is.
(09:56):
And once you have that number,then you allocate a percentage
to profit, a percentage to taxes, a percentage to paying
yourself and a percentage tooperating, a percentage to taxes
, a percentage to payingyourself and a percentage to
operating expenses.
And there are certainpercentages that you guys make
suggestions based on what yourreal revenue number is.
And most of the time, let'sjust admit, when you look at
(10:19):
that and you do the math foryourself, you're not hitting the
right amounts in the rightbuckets.
So talk to us about gettingstarted Like what can you do
first?
Ron Saharyan (10:29):
So in the book there's something called the
instant assessment.
The instant assessment is asnapshot of what profit first
may or may not look like in yourbusiness, and so there are
percentages.
We call these targetedallocations, and this is what
we're shooting for.
This is the ideal.
If you're at these allocations,you're running a great business
, but most businesses they'renot.
(10:50):
And so you can't just take 20%out of an operating expense
account and say, okay, five toprofit, here's the owner's pay.
You just can't do that.
It'll fracture the company.
So what we always recommend isstarting small, like when you
first work out.
Right, If I were to go to thegym and I haven't worked out in
10 years, I'm not going to go tothe bench press and put on 300
(11:13):
pounds and try to do it.
It'll crush me.
Same thing with profit first.
You can't take 20% out of thisand allocate it to profit you
can't.
So you start small.
You start with 1%.
You open up the foundation fiveaccounts, you put 1% in profit,
1% in owner's pay, 1% in taxand you run the business on the
(11:36):
97%.
Otherwise Then, if you're stillpaying your obligations, you
add another percent to profit,another percent to owner's pay,
another percent to tax.
Are you still able to pay yourbills?
You gamify it to get to theseelite percentages over time,
right, and so profit first willalways work.
If you do it small, if you biteoff more than you can chew, it's
(11:59):
going to have an adverse effectand it's going to ruin your
company, right, and so this isnot a get rich quick application
.
This is.
This is a time tested,conservative model that will
stabilize your business, thenhas the power to turn into a
growth tool.
How to create a greater EBITDA,how to lock it in a company, in
a community to pay great jobs,how to do profit sharing, how to
(12:22):
do all this stuff?
Because one of the things is isthat when we're doing our
pricing and your natural beautyproducts and stuff, we have to
price accordingly, guys.
One of the things is is we needto price for burnt muffins,
spilled batter and freebies.
You know that's one of thethings that we're not taking
into it.
So one of the your whole thing,too, is helping that industry,
(12:45):
this industry market.
You need a marketing account,right?
You need an owner's pay account, a tax account, a profit
account, a marketing account,and profit first.
For law firms, we mandate thatthey have a marketing account.
Now, I don't want to just take10% out of the budget and put it
in there, because you probablycan't do it, but what we can do
(13:05):
is do 1%, see how it goes, buildit up.
We're running the business onwhatever's left over.
So, in actuality, if we reallywant to get down to it, profit
first is well, we're allfamiliar with sales minus
expenses equal profit, right,you sell, sell, sell, expenses,
profit.
We're saying that's wrong.
(13:27):
We're saying it's sell, takeyour profit, manage your
business on the expenses right.
But the important part torealize here is that P is not
just representative of profitProfit, but owner's pay, tax,
right.
How about security?
(13:47):
Every company and householdshould have three to six months
of core capital available.
So let's write security downthere.
Then, how about mission purpose, vision, charity, tithing, okay
.
So let's put down that mission,vision, purpose, mvp, right.
So what we're doing, becausewe're good stewards of this
(14:07):
world.
We're selling, selling, selling.
We're taking a little profit,we're taking owner's pay, we're
taking tax because we'reprofitable and Uncle Sam wants
his money, but we're putting alittle away why, I don't know.
In case a pandemic happens, Idon't know.
California is going to burn, oh, the Midwest is flooding, oh,
the Gulf States are going to gethit by a hurricane and we're
(14:28):
going to have blizzards in NewJersey.
These regional disasters happenall over the place.
Right, we need the security andmission value purpose.
Our mission is to eradicateentrepreneurial poverty.
My goal is to have a familyfirst environment where my staff
is accomplishing their dreams,where we're giving profit
(14:49):
distributions, where they havehalf day Fridays, where they
have up to eight weeks paidvacation.
This is how we design abusiness right, with the
cashflow clarity in mind.
To really design it in a waythat we've always wanted mind.
To really design it in a waythat we've always wanted Profit
first is exactly what theindustry is looking for.
If you feel your industry is outof control all over the place,
(15:12):
you know what you want to domore of, but you can't figure it
out.
You know what you want to stopdoing, but you can't figure it
out.
You want to wrap your armsaround your business, get rid of
the products that are garbage,that you don't want to offer,
and double down on the ones.
You want to create more andhave the right inventory and not
go to waste.
And all this you need clarity.
Profit First provides you withthat.
(15:34):
We're going to have aninventory account.
We're going to have a payaccount.
You're going to have amarketing account.
You're going to associate apurpose with the dollars that
you have coming onto thebusiness, a purpose with clarity
that you've never seen before.
Not just, hey, let's hope itworks.
No, let's use mechanisms tohave clarity, keep ourselves in
(16:00):
our guidelines and if it's notthere and allocated for it, we
can't buy it.
Right?
If you don't have money forthis, you can't buy it.
It's the company telling youright.
That's the beauty of profitfirst.
It prevents us from pulling thewool over our own eyes.
Right, it invites innovation.
(16:22):
And so profit first is a lotlike the 401k.
You guys ever have a 401k right?
I did too.
When we first got that bad boy,I remember my wife and I
sitting at the table.
We put 3% in, right, we couldhave put up to 15.
We put 3%.
See how it did.
Then, after about two years ofslowly increasing, I said to
(16:48):
Mary can you believe we'reliving the same lifestyle with
30% of our top line salariescoming off?
I didn't know what Parkinson'swas.
I didn't know there was laws ofthis stuff.
I was just like huh, couldn'tbelieve it.
And that's what profit first isdoing.
We're removing it fromtemptation.
You put your profit and yourstuff at another account, okay,
(17:12):
and you only focus on what youhave.
The reason the 401 is so goodbecause they remove it from
temptation.
You open up your bank accountand it ain't in there, so you
can't spend it.
Tina Smith (17:23):
Well, and one of the things that's making me think
about too, is a lot of timesbusiness owners have in their
mind and you're right, we haveno idea what the business owner
might be thinking, but a lot oftimes the business owners and
these retail owners for surebelieve if they can grow their
revenue enough, then eventuallythey'll be able to pay
(17:46):
themselves.
Yeah, just a few more sales, orjust, you know, another
thousand dollars a month oranother $10,000 a month, yeah.
Ron Saharyan (17:54):
That's the cash is king.
Oh, I just need another sale.
I just need the other sale.
Well, you've been doing thatall your life and look what it's
gotten you.
It's gotten you that other sale, but you haven't solved the
problems.
Tina Smith (18:07):
Yes, I think the good news is, if you're
listening to this and you'vethought that in the past, but
you've increased your sales andthings haven't changed
dramatically for you to be ableto pay yourself or to be able to
reinvest in other waysmarketing, mission, vision,
purpose, any of those areas ifyou are still struggling and it
still feels like check to check,then there's probably a reason.
(18:31):
And I think Profit First is anincredible diagnostic tool
around where things are out ofbalance.
As much as it is helping yougrow and helping you be able to
pay yourself, you can actuallysee where things are going wrong
.
Ron Saharyan (18:45):
Yeah, the first thing that happens, especially
with creatives.
you know, and the first thingwhen a creative, when they work
with a Profit First professional, okay, they get a report and
the report is a plan, basicallya plan, how we're going to
implement profit first, whatit's going to look like, what
(19:05):
are the starting percentages,what it's going to look like
over time.
Okay, they feel relief.
Like huh, I got a plan for thefirst time, right.
Like huh, I got a plan for thefirst time right.
Then, tina, when you move thatmoney, when you allocate that
money, how'd that feel?
Probably pretty good, right?
Tina Smith (19:23):
Yeah, I mean the other thing that it felt, ron
was not painful.
Ron Saharyan (19:27):
It was empowering.
So the next thing is you'reempowered.
You're empowered because you'reactually in charge of your
money.
You're executing the plan.
You're physically controllingthe money.
That is so empowering for somany people that's never had
that kind of control over theirmoney.
Right?
So you're relieved, you'reempowered.
(19:47):
Right Now you have the systemthat's taking care of it.
You have the system.
Imagine starting a business,not worrying about how am I
going to pay myself, how am Igoing to be profitable, how am I
going to keep my expenses incontrol, and all I need to do is
make beautiful product.
Tina Smith (20:01):
Yeah.
Or help people make decisionsaround their health.
So that's a lot of where ourretailers are coming from.
They just want to help peoplein their stores and instead
they're having to grapple withcan I make payroll?
Can I pay myself?
Can I do all these things?
And so this is a powerful wayto get started and what I'll
(20:23):
tell you.
My experience has been and, ron,you can just tell me if this is
normal but my experience waswhen I started with 1% or even
2%, like it didn't make that bigof a change for me, it didn't
feel dramatic, like I wasn'table to pay other bills.
But there was a moment where itstarted to be like I don't know
(20:46):
how to increase this more ordecrease this or change things
around.
And that's when I had to call aprofessional and say, okay,
profit first, professional, whatam I not seeing?
What have you seen across theboard that I just don't know how
to do?
And that's when bigger changehappened.
So the small changes andincreases were very doable and
(21:08):
they were not that painful, butthere was a moment where it was
like, well, I don't know how toget any further.
Ron Saharyan (21:15):
You're awesome, First and foremost.
That's awesome and that isabsolutely normal.
But here's the thing why you'reeven awesomer is because you
didn't stop, you didn't pack itin, you didn't keep it where it
was at.
Too many people stop at thatpoint where it gets difficult.
So when I tell there are a fewthings, I tell people who are
(21:37):
new to profit.
First One be open.
Be open to new, be open, beopen to a different way of doing
something.
Be open.
Then, when you're open, acceptit, get it.
I'm not saying you have tounderstand it, but be curious
about it, not to show that itdoesn't work, but be curious to
(21:59):
learn more about it.
Then, okay, when you're doingit, that's when you strengthen
your mental fortitude.
You strengthen your mentalfortitude to get over that hump.
That over that hump, over thatplateau, was when you really
started seeing a lot of change.
Right, and so that is the trueprofessional.
When you're strengthening yourmental fortitude when things get
(22:20):
tough, to not go back to whereyou were, but to fight and
continue on that path, where thepath is not necessarily clear,
but the next step was right, andso you took that next step, not
knowing that the path was clear.
You asked for help.
You got a profit firstprofessional Great.
They started taking things at adifferent perspective and
(22:42):
you're like, oh my gosh, thatwas great.
And so I encourage everybody tostart it.
You can go to Relay Relay BankI don't know if you guys heard
of Relay Bank, but Relay is ourbanking partner.
You can have up to 20 bankaccounts for free.
They do automated transfer onthe percentages based upon the
date, all sorts of stuff.
(23:03):
That's a great place to getstarted.
Then, once you get started andstart small, have fun with it.
Then, when you're ready to go,reach out and we'll introduce
you to a Profit Firstprofessional.
And so one of the things thatthere's you know in the world.
I'm looking at a website AnnetteDiacombe I don't know if you
(23:25):
know her or not, but she owns amanufacturing business and while
it's not health and beauty, itis called Cast Covers.
She was on Shark Tank.
It is called Cast Covers.
She was on Shark Tank, she wason a bunch.
Basically, she's the first onethat came up with really cool
(23:48):
sleeves for children's casts,All sorts of like manufacturing,
and so you know I mean it'stalking about a large
manufacturing company as wellfor making good, healthy things
for kids right, that it was outof control.
She utilized Profit First,helped her with her business.
She reached out to a ProfitFirst professional, got the help
she wanted and then decided youknow what I want to start
(24:11):
coaching other manufacturingbusinesses.
So she has morphed into shemakes products, so she makes
products.
She's got all sorts ofdifferent products on there and
so she's a product-based profitfirst professional.
That would probably be morethan willing to help anybody and
(24:32):
I can make an introduction toAnnette or anybody for us.
So it doesn't matter where youare in your business.
It doesn't matter if you're 20Kin the rears, it doesn't matter
if you're a million-dollarbusiness or haven't even gotten
anything.
You can benefit from profitfirst if you're open, if you
(24:53):
start small, if you continue onthe path and you continue to
strengthen your mental fortitudewhen things get tough.
Tina Smith (25:00):
Yeah, and I think you started talking a little bit
about the bank accounts thereand relay.
And just for the audience, ifyou've not heard anything about
Profit First and you're notnecessarily understanding why
you would need 20 bank accountsand you might not need 20, but
it's good to have up to 20,because what we're talking about
is, like you talked about theenvelope method of allocating
(25:23):
your money and getting it out ofyour main operating account so
that you're not tempted to spendit when you don't really have
it.
Because here's how I used to domy business I would look and
see if I had money in mychecking account and if I did,
then I was like, oh, I'm good togo, I'll make this expense.
The problem was there would bebigger expenses that would be
coming the next month that Iforgot about.
(25:44):
That was something like anannual expense.
And then I would be like, wait,I don't have money to pay for
that when it actually arrived ora tax bill came.
That's one of the biggest thingsyeah, it's one of the biggest
things that I hear from businessowners Like I never have money
to pay my taxes and then I'm onsome payment plan forever.
(26:05):
So the reason you have separateaccounts is because when that
money comes in, you shoot itright over to the other accounts
as soon as it drops into thatoperating account, so that you
can see what's actually in yourbank account to use for that
month versus things that youneed to save for annual expenses
(26:25):
, as an example, taxes, puttingprofit away, marketing expenses,
mission, vision purpose all thethings that we've talked about
and you can have separateaccounts for those.
That makes it makes it easierto see like, oh, I have money in
our mission vision purposeaccount, so, yes, I can put
money into this charity whenthey come ask or this local
(26:46):
school that we're supporting orwhatever it is.
You know what money goes where,because they're in separate
accounts and you can be like, ohyep, that has a balance Great.
Ron Saharyan (26:58):
We have 25 bank accounts at five different
institutions.
The reconciliation of all thoseaccounts takes under eight
minutes.
The financial clarity that Mikeand I have globally is second
to none.
We're an S-corp, right.
We have partners all over theglobe.
We have book deals, we havemembership deals, we have
conferences, all sorts of stuffright.
(27:19):
We have a profit con account.
I missed an insurance payment acouple of years ago and I was
like, oh my God, and theinsurance was like $15,000.
And I'm like where am I goingto get it?
So we had a struggle.
We got it, because one of thethings is we're running our OpEx
down to almost zero all thetime.
It's uncomfortable, but you getused to it after a while.
(27:40):
And so then I'm like this willnever happen again.
So I opened up an insuranceaccount and then started funding
it and funding it.
And then, um, I got.
You ever get those chills Like,ooh, did I do that?
Like a year later I'm like, ohmy God, I got the bill.
I'm like, oh my God, did Iplease, please say I opened an
account for this, linda?
Did we open?
Yep, you got it, Ron, and themoney's all in here.
(28:01):
Yes, high five.
So you know when in doubt, openan account.
Tina Smith (28:10):
Yeah, especially for those expenses that you are
likely to forget about, ifyou're anything like me.
Now, some people are verydetailed, but I am not, and I
forget that things are going tocome up and then they happen and
they're big expenses.
Insurance is a great example ofone of them, and when it hits
I'm always like, oh, do I havethe money to pay it?
And then you go look in theaccount and there it is.
(28:32):
So just takes a lot of thatextra worry off of a business
owner's plate.
When you're allocatingimmediately, as soon as the
money comes in, you don't haveto think about and worry about
am I going to have the moneywhen the bill comes?
It's there.
Ron Saharyan (28:48):
It's there, you can do it right.
Right, yeah, you can do itright.
Tina Smith (28:51):
That's one of the reasons I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
Ron Saharyan (28:53):
You can do it right.
Tina Smith (28:51):
That's one of the reasons I love it yeah.
Ron Saharyan (28:54):
So here's something else.
We're talking business right,but we're in business for
different purposes and most ofit is life right, for our family
and to help us and them livethe lifestyles.
I have a daughter.
She's 13 years old, she doestrack and it was $75 for track
season.
They don't have a track, theyrun around the parking lot.
(29:16):
Okay, one of our members hasfive children.
Each one of them is a DivisionI athlete.
He spends over $50,000 a yearon sports travel, leagues,
coaches, stuff like that.
Right, lacrosse is big overhere in New Jersey.
A season is three grand right.
(29:38):
Equipment sticks are a hundreddollars In the book Profit.
First, mike was so destitutethat he couldn't even pay $25
for his daughter's ridinglessons.
How many parents are tellingtheir kids no for sports because
they cannot afford it?
That is a travesty in my mind.
(29:59):
Okay, and so one of the thingsI recommend is a sports travel
account.
Okay, allocate that money allyear long into a sports travel
account, regardless of what itis.
That way, you're always able tohave that for your children.
You can look at it like layawayfor Christmas.
(30:20):
You can have a Christmasaccount right.
That's what we're talking about.
We're talking about fiscalresponsibility and purpose.
When things are good, you knowand things are easy, but you
know.
When things got bad during the,you know the, whatever, the
virus, you saw what reallyhappened.
And then all the money,everything.
(30:42):
You started seeing innovationlike crazy, crazy innovation.
Then all the PPP money and theinnovation stopped because
everybody got comfortable again.
Now everybody who took thatmoney has to pay that back.
More people, more people.
So, if you've taken money,allocate debt, debt account,
stuff like that, because it'scoming.
But that's all we're reallytalking about, guys, is real
(31:05):
fiscal responsibility and tryingto get out of the comparison
business.
Amanda Ballard (31:11):
So what I'm hearing and I know you had
mentioned this earlier is one ofthe obstacles for people is
that their ego can get too big.
What are some of the otherobstacles that people have to
work through before theyimplement Profit First, Yep, a
couple of things.
Ron Saharyan (31:28):
My company is so unique it'll never work.
No, it's not.
I've worked with you, knoweverything from startups to a
hundred million dollarbusinesses in almost every
country.
You know of every currency, ofany domain.
It'll work.
Okay, my company's too small,my company's too big, right?
(31:50):
So again we're talking there.
The best one is the best one.
My accountant says I don't needit, get yourself a new
accountant.
Anytime your accountant orbookkeeper or tax professional
says you don't need this, askthem what is the pay yourself
(32:12):
first system that they'rerunning in their business and
that they're teaching to theircustomers to ensure that the
business owner is profitable andthey're paying themselves first
.
If any accountant says, well,you sell, right, you sell, you
manage your expenses, yeah, then, whatever you have left over,
(32:32):
that's your profit.
Run for the hills?
Okay, that's the same thingover and over and over.
They're not opening.
How are they doing for you now?
Are they giving you advice?
Are you meeting with themstrategically?
Do you want to meet with youraccountant?
Do you want a relationship withyour accountant?
(32:53):
Right, I talk to my bookkeeperevery other Thursday at 10 am.
It's 15, 20 minutes.
It's a cash call.
Ron, you have all theseaccounts.
This is what your positions are.
This is money in, this is moneyout.
What do you got going on?
I pay for that.
Then the accountant that youdon't talk to.
(33:15):
If you don't talk to youraccountant or they're not
strategizing with you quarterly,it's a problem.
It's a problem also if you askthem for your updated financials
and they say why do you needthem?
Okay, get yourself a newaccountant.
If they say, um, yeah, yeah,you don't need.
(33:40):
Oh, you don't need.
That is the worst.
Oh, it'll take so much time forme to reconcile.
Oh, but they just don't want todo it.
They're you know, accounting isit?
It's guaranteed business.
Like doctors, people are goingto be sick.
I mean, I know a lot of theaccounting dirty secrets and
(34:04):
accountants don't run goodbusinesses.
A lot of them don't Just like alot of lawyers, don't Just like
a lot of doctors, don't.
They run great practices for youguys.
They're great at deliveringtheir accounting services, their
tax services, their legal stuff, but behind the scenes, they're
a hot mess, just like everybodyelse.
That's why it's mandatory ofevery single one of our
(34:24):
certified accountants to beexperiencing profit first.
That's why certification cantake up to six months.
That's why we really make sure,because it's a lot more than
just taking a little bit ofmoney and putting it in a bucket
.
But that's the best place tostart.
The best place to start is toopen up one account, start
putting one to 3% in there, letit ride, see how it does.
(34:48):
Then, whatever that purpose ison that bank account it could be
to pay down debt, it could beto celebrate, whatever it
happens to be.
Start that way, build it up,then stack another one, then
another one, then another one.
Tina Smith (35:05):
Yeah, and I think, ron, that's how I started.
For sure, I opened two accounts.
My current bank would let me doit, and so I started with a
profit account and a tax account, and then I left the other one
as the operating account becauseI was like, oh, this is going
to be too hard.
I did my own accounting so itwas like this is going to be too
(35:26):
hard to keep up with.
I don't want to sit here andallocate money and then put
money back and figure all thisout every single week, every
whatever, and it turned intosomething that was so easy.
It took me five to 15 minutes aweek, then it was every other
week.
So it's easier than you think,but just getting over that
(35:48):
mental barrier of this is goingto be complicated, and then it
turns into something that's awhole lot easier once you start
doing it.
Ron Saharyan (35:54):
You're absolutely right, and our whole thing is it
doesn't have to be complicated,and then it turns into
something that's a whole loteasier once you start doing it.
You're absolutely right, andour whole thing is it doesn't
have to be complex to beimpactful, right.
But the thing is is we have atendency to overcomplicate
things.
That's why I break it down inits simplest form Open up a bank
account and allocate one tothree percent, keep it off to
the side, see what happens,focus, right.
(36:16):
But also, you know, go line byline over your P&L, line by line
, and question every single lineon there Is this necessary for
the survival of the business?
And if it's a no, get rid of it.
And all that waste, all thatstuff that you're getting rid of
(36:36):
, that instantly goes to profitor owner's pay, that easy.
And so, by going line by lineby line also then doing an
inventory analysis, an inventoryreview, you know that's another
thing.
You know, do we have productthat is just lying around?
Right, then we need to do aproduct profit analysis.
(36:59):
We might enjoy making this oneproduct and it might sell a lot
because it's cheap.
But this one we have so muchmore margin on, and if we just
push this one a little bitharder, we would be less effort
and more money, right, and sothere's all sorts of fun things
we can do once we have clarity,but if we're just all over the
(37:20):
place without the clarity, we'regoing to be making the same
decisions.
Tina Smith (37:26):
Yeah, and that's something that we come in.
It's the same kind of thingwith marketing too.
You start with the small thingsthat are going to have high
impact and then you can starthaving more fun where you dig
into the analysis of, okay, whatproducts are selling well and
which ones have the most margin?
Which are the most popular?
Are any of these bought at thesame time?
(37:48):
You know we can start mixingand matching, but you have to
start simple first.
Are you sending out emailsevery week?
There are small things that youcan do that make big impact,
and that's what I think aboutthis opening the one to two
accounts and starting to put oneto 3% in each of them for taxes
and profit, and then you canget more fun with it, like
having your insurance account,and then the next year don't
(38:10):
worry about it.
It's these incremental changesthat end up making a really big
difference over three years,five years 10 years in, and then
you're in an entirely differentplace.
Ron Saharyan (38:23):
When in your business, when things start
taking a downturn to thebusiness, I've noticed that in
restaurants that usually thendefault to cheaper ingredients.
Does that happen in yourindustry as well?
Tina Smith (38:43):
Well, I mean I think Amanda can speak to from the
manufacturer perspective thatwe've seen.
Some of these manufacturersthat are going after bigger
revenue dollars will changeingredients so that they can get
into food, drug and mass likeWalmart those kind of places,
and then but they'll have highermargin in some of our
(39:05):
independent retail stores thatwe work with.
But they change formulations toget the bigger revenue grab and
it's stuff that they couldn'tget away with.
Amanda Ballard (39:15):
In a health food store with a more educated
staff and consumer base thatknows, oh, these are the more
effective forms of B vitamins,but they'll put them in the
products at Walmart under thesame type of packaging, hard to
tell the difference between thetwo.
So that is something that hasbeen happening much more over
(39:35):
the last few years than I wouldlike.
Ron Saharyan (39:39):
Yeah, no.
And so how does the businessthat specializes in the really
good stuff remain competitive?
Well, they have to build thatinto their marketing, they have
to build that into their pricing.
They have to build that intotheir education of the outside
world.
You have to educate more andmore and more and more and more
(40:02):
as the quality of your stuffgets more expensive compared to
some of the other stuff.
But also, I think the businessowner has to make a decision as
to who their market is Right.
Tina Smith (40:20):
Yeah, and some of that analysis as to what is the
more profitable margin that willallow me to still create a
really great product that peoplereally need, and where can I go
for that, which is one of thereasons that we love the
independent retail channelbecause, they prefer the best
ingredients.
They're going to keep thatmargin high for different, for
the manufacturers, and they'regoing to get the product to
(40:42):
consumers who really need it.
Ron Saharyan (40:44):
And they're.
They realize that, that, that,that that person making the
stuff really like when you'reselling to Walmart and some of
these other you know, rite Aid's, walgreens, stuff like that
it's all contracts, it's allgovernment pricing, it's all
this, it's all nonsense, it iswhatever.
(41:06):
But they don't care about yourculture, they don't care about
your philanthropic opportunities, they don't care.
If you want to give staffvacation, profit sharing, they
don't care.
And so what is the businessthat you're designing?
What do you care about?
Because if we care about someof these other things, well,
(41:26):
we're going to have to priceaccordingly.
We're going to have to havefiscal controls in place.
We're going to have to reallyhave a pulse and clarity on our
cash flow, especially forsmaller.
Tina Smith (41:36):
Yeah, yeah and really get creative around it.
Well, ron, this has beenamazing.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us, and I think it's
going to be really helpful,especially for some of our
smaller retailers, who I promisesome of the complaints or the
(41:57):
frustrations that we get comingin the door is I haven't paid
myself in years, and so having asystem like this I think could
be life changing for them.
If they will start small andstick with it over the years and
probably hire a Profit Firstprofessional to help them out,
I'll tell you what?
Ron Saharyan (42:16):
I've got five gift books for anybody in your
audience.
If anybody reaches out to you,ladies, and says, hey, I'd love
a copy of Profit First, I've gotfive copies.
All you have to do is email metheir addresses and I'll send
them a copy in the mail.
Tina Smith (42:32):
Perfect, yeah, we will have a form available for
people associated with thispodcast episode, so thank you so
much for doing that.
Ron Saharyan (42:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tina Smith (42:41):
We appreciate it.
So if anyone does want to reachout to a Profit First
Professional, where should theygo?
Ron (42:49):
Profitfirstprofessionalscom .
Pretty simple, easy enough,yeah, and you can connect on me
on LinkedIn, facebook, anywhere.
I'm the only Ron Saharian outthere, I believe.
Yeah, hook me up.
I'll be more than happy toanswer any questions that you
have Awesome Well.
Amanda Ballard (43:05):
Thank you so much for being with us today,
ron.
Ron Saharyan (43:08):
Yeah, guys, thank you for having me, it was a
pleasure.
Amanda Ballard (43:11):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (43:22):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
Yep, a couple of things.
My company is so unique It'llnever work.
No, it's not.
I've worked with you, knoweverything from startups to a
hundred million dollarbusinesses in almost every
country.
You know of every currency, ofany domain.
It'll work.
Okay, my company's too small,my company's too big, right?
(00:23):
So again we're talking there.
The best one is the best one.
My accountant says I don't needit, get yourself a new
accountant.
Tina Smith (00:39):
Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer
Podcast.
Amanda Ballard (00:42):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
Tina Smith (00:54):
Well, ron, it's so exciting to have you on the
Natural Products MarketerPodcast with us.
Profit First is somethingthat's very near and dear to my
heart, because it has helped mebuy a house, grow my business
and remain profitable in theblack so that I can reinvest and
(01:14):
create more and more growth formyself, and it's been something
that I've shared with othersover and over again.
So it's really turned aroundthe way that I do business in my
financials, in my own business,and it's changed the way that
I'm able to live as a result ofbeing a business owner.
So I love Profit First, but forthe uninitiated, we would love
(01:38):
for you to introduce yourselfand the process of Profit First
and what you're going to be ableto share with us here on the
show today.
Ron Saharyan (01:47):
All right, awesome .
Well, thank you Tina and Amandafor having me on the show.
My name is Ron Saharian and Iam the co-founder of Profit
First Professionals.
Profit First is a book and amethodology actually written by
my business partner, mike.
Written by my business partner,mike.
Okay, profit First you can seethe original right there behind
(02:08):
me if this is going to video,but if not, what Profit First is
not?
It is not accounting, it is notbookkeeping.
What it is is a system.
It is a system that is the mostneglected system in every
(02:28):
business.
It's an allocation method.
It's a system that residesbetween financials, which are
historical documents, andforecasting, which are hopes and
dreams.
Profit first is the ultimatecash flow.
Profit first is the ultimatecash flow system.
Yeah, so that's exactly what itis.
(02:48):
So when people say profit firstaccounting, I like to correct
them, because it's notaccounting.
How you do accounting, how youdo bookkeeping, how you do tax
is the same.
Profit first is a way to helpyou have financial clarity on
your cash flow.
Where are you spending it?
Where are you putting it in?
(03:09):
How much are you putting inyour pocket right?
How much is going to staff?
It prevents you fromoverspending.
It puts guardrails okay inplace and it's fashioned after
grandmother's budgeting envelope, budgeting methodology, right.
Tina Smith (03:29):
Yeah, I love that part of it, Ron.
So some people are going to belistening to this and thinking
what in the world are we doing?
Talking about money on thismarketing podcast?
And the reason is there are anumber of reasons, but first, we
are here to help you grow aprofitable business through
marketing efforts.
(03:49):
And second, if you don't budgetcorrectly, you won't have any
money to spend on marketing andto invest in the growth of your
business.
And third man, we want you tobe able to live well as a result
of owning this business.
So all of those things threethings come together.
(04:10):
And Amanda asked me one day.
She was like is there any waythat we can get someone on here
to talk about getting financialsright so that the people who
are owning this business canlive better as a result of
helping other people live betterlives with natural products?
And I was like, ooh, I knowexactly who we need to get
Profit First.
And I was like, ooh, I know, Iknow exactly who we need to get
profit first.
And Ron, just tell us a littlebit about the organization of
profit first.
So you're talking about asystem that can help you grow
(04:32):
your business profitably, butalso you guys have people who
can help people, who trainpeople in this process so that
they can help people implementprofit first in their business.
Ron Saharyan (04:44):
Absolutely, and I'm not an accountant, I'm not a
bookkeeper either.
I don't touch that stuff with a10-foot pole.
Most business owners don't gointo running a business because
they love accounting andbookkeeping.
They do it because of the loveof the product and those who
they're serving.
But unfortunately, in America,here, 83% of businesses are
check to check.
(05:04):
The small businessadministration classes.
Any business business under 25million is small.
I'd like $25 million smallbusiness personally, right.
But out of those, 83% are checkto check.
That means many business ownersare not paying themselves.
They're foregoing pay to meetpayroll.
(05:24):
Many of them are in debt out totheir, just get out of debt,
debt, debt, debt, debt, andthey're not profitable, right,
and so that's no way to run abusiness.
And, and so you know we have totake that back right, because
you know accounting ishistorical information but we're
living in the real world.
(05:45):
We need front windshieldapproach to information.
We need to be able to makedecisions real time versus
looking back and saying oops, Imade that mistake.
This is a way to correct it.
Ok, so where they say probablyin your business and most
businesses, they say cash isking.
Well, it's, it's, it is, butthere's something that trumps
(06:07):
that.
And, business owners, we doeverything we can if we're in a
cash crunch.
You're going to sell products,you're going to sell this,
you're going to do a fire sale,you're going to do everything.
We're going to get moneyinvolved and we're going to keep
the lights on.
But here's the problem If wedon't have the proper system in
place, we're going to be makingthose same mistakes, right, and
(06:30):
so that's why, year after year,businesses are on this
merry-go-round.
They're selling, selling,selling, incurring expenses,
incurring expenses.
They're not putting any more intheir pocket, right, or that
they're doing this.
So what profit first does is ittakes some very important
elements to a business and putsa spotlight on them.
The number one thing a businessowner should be doing is paying
(06:52):
themselves first.
If you're not paying yourself,that's crazy.
You're staying up later thananybody.
You're sacrificing more thananybody.
You need to pay yourself,otherwise you're going to resent
your business, right?
Two, expenses are out ofcontrol.
Right, we need to have a focuson what we're spending on and
(07:14):
get a return on it.
Three, we're not profitable.
But with profit, you can paydown debt, you can celebrate the
health of the company or youcan hire.
When small businesses can hire.
They relieve a lot of thestress from the helm, right?
Okay, and so what profit firstdoes is we're going to take a
few elements and we're going toreally look to make sure that
that's getting the spotlight Onethe owner paying themselves to
(07:37):
profit three tax.
Those are very important, okay,and so you know, one of the
things is is that the book isconceptually simple.
All we're doing is taking alittle bit of money and putting
it into a bucket right?
These buckets are bank accounts.
But, as you indicated, tina,the devils are in the details.
(07:57):
And so our organization, profitfirst professionals, is a
global organization.
We're in 40 different countries.
We have certified over 800accounting and bookkeeping firms
so that they can do this rightfor you.
You shouldn't be guessing onyour finances and you shouldn't
be working with somebody whoguesses on your finances.
(08:18):
You should be working with anexpert so that you can have the
clarity that you want.
And so my organization is amembership organization of elite
accountants and bookkeepersthat all subscribe to Profit
First.
They're running it in theirbusiness.
They go through three to sixmonths of certification.
They have to remain in goodstandings, their tests, their
(08:39):
quizzes, and they roll this outto all of their customers.
And so you know, this is again,I can't stress, it's not
accounting, it's not bookkeeping, this is a system.
So once the business ownerrealizes that it's a system, the
fear of numbers kind of isremoved.
(08:59):
Okay, but then it comes backbecause we are working with
numbers and percentages, right.
And so you know, my advice isto read the book, start small.
You know, one of the things isand I saw here that banks write
banks.
If you want to get into banks,I have a list of banks, but my
(09:22):
organization supports you guys,right, so all you have to do is
go toProfitFirstProfessionalscom,
fill out a finder and we willintroduce you to a certified
Profit First professional.
Tina Smith (09:34):
So, Ron, when I got started using Profit First, I
read the book first and Istarted these incremental moves
toward the percentages that youguys are talking about.
And just to kind of break itdown for the audience what we
are talking about.
And just to kind of break itdown for the audience, what
we're talking about is you havea revenue number and you have
some cost of goods, expensesthat come out of that, and then
you're left with what your realrevenue is.
(09:56):
And once you have that number,then you allocate a percentage
to profit, a percentage to taxes, a percentage to paying
yourself and a percentage tooperating, a percentage to taxes
, a percentage to payingyourself and a percentage to
operating expenses.
And there are certainpercentages that you guys make
suggestions based on what yourreal revenue number is.
And most of the time, let'sjust admit, when you look at
(10:19):
that and you do the math foryourself, you're not hitting the
right amounts in the rightbuckets.
So talk to us about gettingstarted Like what can you do
first?
Ron Saharyan (10:29):
So in the book there's something called the
instant assessment.
The instant assessment is asnapshot of what profit first
may or may not look like in yourbusiness, and so there are
percentages.
We call these targetedallocations, and this is what
we're shooting for.
This is the ideal.
If you're at these allocations,you're running a great business
, but most businesses they'renot.
(10:50):
And so you can't just take 20%out of an operating expense
account and say, okay, five toprofit, here's the owner's pay.
You just can't do that.
It'll fracture the company.
So what we always recommend isstarting small, like when you
first work out.
Right, If I were to go to thegym and I haven't worked out in
10 years, I'm not going to go tothe bench press and put on 300
(11:13):
pounds and try to do it.
It'll crush me.
Same thing with profit first.
You can't take 20% out of thisand allocate it to profit you
can't.
So you start small.
You start with 1%.
You open up the foundation fiveaccounts, you put 1% in profit,
1% in owner's pay, 1% in taxand you run the business on the
(11:36):
97%.
Otherwise Then, if you're stillpaying your obligations, you
add another percent to profit,another percent to owner's pay,
another percent to tax.
Are you still able to pay yourbills?
You gamify it to get to theseelite percentages over time,
right, and so profit first willalways work.
If you do it small, if you biteoff more than you can chew, it's
(11:59):
going to have an adverse effectand it's going to ruin your
company, right, and so this isnot a get rich quick application
.
This is.
This is a time tested,conservative model that will
stabilize your business, thenhas the power to turn into a
growth tool.
How to create a greater EBITDA,how to lock it in a company, in
a community to pay great jobs,how to do profit sharing, how to
(12:22):
do all this stuff?
Because one of the things is isthat when we're doing our
pricing and your natural beautyproducts and stuff, we have to
price accordingly, guys.
One of the things is is we needto price for burnt muffins,
spilled batter and freebies.
You know that's one of thethings that we're not taking
into it.
So one of the your whole thing,too, is helping that industry,
(12:45):
this industry market.
You need a marketing account,right?
You need an owner's pay account, a tax account, a profit
account, a marketing account,and profit first.
For law firms, we mandate thatthey have a marketing account.
Now, I don't want to just take10% out of the budget and put it
in there, because you probablycan't do it, but what we can do
(13:05):
is do 1%, see how it goes, buildit up.
We're running the business onwhatever's left over.
So, in actuality, if we reallywant to get down to it, profit
first is well, we're allfamiliar with sales minus
expenses equal profit, right,you sell, sell, sell, expenses,
profit.
We're saying that's wrong.
(13:27):
We're saying it's sell, takeyour profit, manage your
business on the expenses right.
But the important part torealize here is that P is not
just representative of profitProfit, but owner's pay, tax,
right.
How about security?
(13:47):
Every company and householdshould have three to six months
of core capital available.
So let's write security downthere.
Then, how about mission purpose, vision, charity, tithing, okay
.
So let's put down that mission,vision, purpose, mvp, right.
So what we're doing, becausewe're good stewards of this
(14:07):
world.
We're selling, selling, selling.
We're taking a little profit,we're taking owner's pay, we're
taking tax because we'reprofitable and Uncle Sam wants
his money, but we're putting alittle away why, I don't know.
In case a pandemic happens, Idon't know.
California is going to burn, oh, the Midwest is flooding, oh,
the Gulf States are going to gethit by a hurricane and we're
(14:28):
going to have blizzards in NewJersey.
These regional disasters happenall over the place.
Right, we need the security andmission value purpose.
Our mission is to eradicateentrepreneurial poverty.
My goal is to have a familyfirst environment where my staff
is accomplishing their dreams,where we're giving profit
(14:49):
distributions, where they havehalf day Fridays, where they
have up to eight weeks paidvacation.
This is how we design abusiness right, with the
cashflow clarity in mind.
To really design it in a waythat we've always wanted mind.
To really design it in a waythat we've always wanted Profit
first is exactly what theindustry is looking for.
If you feel your industry is outof control all over the place,
(15:12):
you know what you want to domore of, but you can't figure it
out.
You know what you want to stopdoing, but you can't figure it
out.
You want to wrap your armsaround your business, get rid of
the products that are garbage,that you don't want to offer,
and double down on the ones.
You want to create more andhave the right inventory and not
go to waste.
And all this you need clarity.
Profit First provides you withthat.
(15:34):
We're going to have aninventory account.
We're going to have a payaccount.
You're going to have amarketing account.
You're going to associate apurpose with the dollars that
you have coming onto thebusiness, a purpose with clarity
that you've never seen before.
Not just, hey, let's hope itworks.
No, let's use mechanisms tohave clarity, keep ourselves in
(16:00):
our guidelines and if it's notthere and allocated for it, we
can't buy it.
Right?
If you don't have money forthis, you can't buy it.
It's the company telling youright.
That's the beauty of profitfirst.
It prevents us from pulling thewool over our own eyes.
Right, it invites innovation.
(16:22):
And so profit first is a lotlike the 401k.
You guys ever have a 401k right?
I did too.
When we first got that bad boy,I remember my wife and I
sitting at the table.
We put 3% in, right, we couldhave put up to 15.
We put 3%.
See how it did.
Then, after about two years ofslowly increasing, I said to
(16:48):
Mary can you believe we'reliving the same lifestyle with
30% of our top line salariescoming off?
I didn't know what Parkinson'swas.
I didn't know there was laws ofthis stuff.
I was just like huh, couldn'tbelieve it.
And that's what profit first isdoing.
We're removing it fromtemptation.
You put your profit and yourstuff at another account, okay,
(17:12):
and you only focus on what youhave.
The reason the 401 is so goodbecause they remove it from
temptation.
You open up your bank accountand it ain't in there, so you
can't spend it.
Tina Smith (17:23):
Well, and one of the things that's making me think
about too, is a lot of timesbusiness owners have in their
mind and you're right, we haveno idea what the business owner
might be thinking, but a lot oftimes the business owners and
these retail owners for surebelieve if they can grow their
revenue enough, then eventuallythey'll be able to pay
(17:46):
themselves.
Yeah, just a few more sales, orjust, you know, another
thousand dollars a month oranother $10,000 a month, yeah.
Ron Saharyan (17:54):
That's the cash is king.
Oh, I just need another sale.
I just need the other sale.
Well, you've been doing thatall your life and look what it's
gotten you.
It's gotten you that other sale, but you haven't solved the
problems.
Tina Smith (18:07):
Yes, I think the good news is, if you're
listening to this and you'vethought that in the past, but
you've increased your sales andthings haven't changed
dramatically for you to be ableto pay yourself or to be able to
reinvest in other waysmarketing, mission, vision,
purpose, any of those areas ifyou are still struggling and it
still feels like check to check,then there's probably a reason.
(18:31):
And I think Profit First is anincredible diagnostic tool
around where things are out ofbalance.
As much as it is helping yougrow and helping you be able to
pay yourself, you can actuallysee where things are going wrong
.
Ron Saharyan (18:45):
Yeah, the first thing that happens, especially
with creatives.
you know, and the first thingwhen a creative, when they work
with a Profit First professional, okay, they get a report and
the report is a plan, basicallya plan, how we're going to
implement profit first, whatit's going to look like, what
(19:05):
are the starting percentages,what it's going to look like
over time.
Okay, they feel relief.
Like huh, I got a plan for thefirst time, right.
Like huh, I got a plan for thefirst time right.
Then, tina, when you move thatmoney, when you allocate that
money, how'd that feel?
Probably pretty good, right?
Tina Smith (19:23):
Yeah, I mean the other thing that it felt, ron
was not painful.
Ron Saharyan (19:27):
It was empowering.
So the next thing is you'reempowered.
You're empowered because you'reactually in charge of your
money.
You're executing the plan.
You're physically controllingthe money.
That is so empowering for somany people that's never had
that kind of control over theirmoney.
Right?
So you're relieved, you'reempowered.
(19:47):
Right Now you have the systemthat's taking care of it.
You have the system.
Imagine starting a business,not worrying about how am I
going to pay myself, how am Igoing to be profitable, how am I
going to keep my expenses incontrol, and all I need to do is
make beautiful product.
Tina Smith (20:01):
Yeah.
Or help people make decisionsaround their health.
So that's a lot of where ourretailers are coming from.
They just want to help peoplein their stores and instead
they're having to grapple withcan I make payroll?
Can I pay myself?
Can I do all these things?
And so this is a powerful wayto get started and what I'll
(20:23):
tell you.
My experience has been and, ron,you can just tell me if this is
normal but my experience waswhen I started with 1% or even
2%, like it didn't make that bigof a change for me, it didn't
feel dramatic, like I wasn'table to pay other bills.
But there was a moment where itstarted to be like I don't know
(20:46):
how to increase this more ordecrease this or change things
around.
And that's when I had to call aprofessional and say, okay,
profit first, professional, whatam I not seeing?
What have you seen across theboard that I just don't know how
to do?
And that's when bigger changehappened.
So the small changes andincreases were very doable and
(21:08):
they were not that painful, butthere was a moment where it was
like, well, I don't know how toget any further.
Ron Saharyan (21:15):
You're awesome, First and foremost.
That's awesome and that isabsolutely normal.
But here's the thing why you'reeven awesomer is because you
didn't stop, you didn't pack itin, you didn't keep it where it
was at.
Too many people stop at thatpoint where it gets difficult.
So when I tell there are a fewthings, I tell people who are
(21:37):
new to profit.
First One be open.
Be open to new, be open, beopen to a different way of doing
something.
Be open.
Then, when you're open, acceptit, get it.
I'm not saying you have tounderstand it, but be curious
about it, not to show that itdoesn't work, but be curious to
(21:59):
learn more about it.
Then, okay, when you're doingit, that's when you strengthen
your mental fortitude.
You strengthen your mentalfortitude to get over that hump.
That over that hump, over thatplateau, was when you really
started seeing a lot of change.
Right, and so that is the trueprofessional.
When you're strengthening yourmental fortitude when things get
(22:20):
tough, to not go back to whereyou were, but to fight and
continue on that path, where thepath is not necessarily clear,
but the next step was right, andso you took that next step, not
knowing that the path was clear.
You asked for help.
You got a profit firstprofessional Great.
They started taking things at adifferent perspective and
(22:42):
you're like, oh my gosh, thatwas great.
And so I encourage everybody tostart it.
You can go to Relay Relay BankI don't know if you guys heard
of Relay Bank, but Relay is ourbanking partner.
You can have up to 20 bankaccounts for free.
They do automated transfer onthe percentages based upon the
date, all sorts of stuff.
(23:03):
That's a great place to getstarted.
Then, once you get started andstart small, have fun with it.
Then, when you're ready to go,reach out and we'll introduce
you to a Profit Firstprofessional.
And so one of the things thatthere's you know in the world.
I'm looking at a website AnnetteDiacombe I don't know if you
(23:25):
know her or not, but she owns amanufacturing business and while
it's not health and beauty, itis called Cast Covers.
She was on Shark Tank.
It is called Cast Covers.
She was on Shark Tank, she wason a bunch.
Basically, she's the first onethat came up with really cool
(23:48):
sleeves for children's casts,All sorts of like manufacturing,
and so you know I mean it'stalking about a large
manufacturing company as wellfor making good, healthy things
for kids right, that it was outof control.
She utilized Profit First,helped her with her business.
She reached out to a ProfitFirst professional, got the help
she wanted and then decided youknow what I want to start
(24:11):
coaching other manufacturingbusinesses.
So she has morphed into shemakes products, so she makes
products.
She's got all sorts ofdifferent products on there and
so she's a product-based profitfirst professional.
That would probably be morethan willing to help anybody and
(24:32):
I can make an introduction toAnnette or anybody for us.
So it doesn't matter where youare in your business.
It doesn't matter if you're 20Kin the rears, it doesn't matter
if you're a million-dollarbusiness or haven't even gotten
anything.
You can benefit from profitfirst if you're open, if you
(24:53):
start small, if you continue onthe path and you continue to
strengthen your mental fortitudewhen things get tough.
Tina Smith (25:00):
Yeah, and I think you started talking a little bit
about the bank accounts thereand relay.
And just for the audience, ifyou've not heard anything about
Profit First and you're notnecessarily understanding why
you would need 20 bank accountsand you might not need 20, but
it's good to have up to 20,because what we're talking about
is, like you talked about theenvelope method of allocating
(25:23):
your money and getting it out ofyour main operating account so
that you're not tempted to spendit when you don't really have
it.
Because here's how I used to domy business I would look and
see if I had money in mychecking account and if I did,
then I was like, oh, I'm good togo, I'll make this expense.
The problem was there would bebigger expenses that would be
coming the next month that Iforgot about.
(25:44):
That was something like anannual expense.
And then I would be like, wait,I don't have money to pay for
that when it actually arrived ora tax bill came.
That's one of the biggest thingsyeah, it's one of the biggest
things that I hear from businessowners Like I never have money
to pay my taxes and then I'm onsome payment plan forever.
(26:05):
So the reason you have separateaccounts is because when that
money comes in, you shoot itright over to the other accounts
as soon as it drops into thatoperating account, so that you
can see what's actually in yourbank account to use for that
month versus things that youneed to save for annual expenses
(26:25):
, as an example, taxes, puttingprofit away, marketing expenses,
mission, vision purpose all thethings that we've talked about
and you can have separateaccounts for those.
That makes it makes it easierto see like, oh, I have money in
our mission vision purposeaccount, so, yes, I can put
money into this charity whenthey come ask or this local
(26:46):
school that we're supporting orwhatever it is.
You know what money goes where,because they're in separate
accounts and you can be like, ohyep, that has a balance Great.
Ron Saharyan (26:58):
We have 25 bank accounts at five different
institutions.
The reconciliation of all thoseaccounts takes under eight
minutes.
The financial clarity that Mikeand I have globally is second
to none.
We're an S-corp, right.
We have partners all over theglobe.
We have book deals, we havemembership deals, we have
conferences, all sorts of stuffright.
(27:19):
We have a profit con account.
I missed an insurance payment acouple of years ago and I was
like, oh my God, and theinsurance was like $15,000.
And I'm like where am I goingto get it?
So we had a struggle.
We got it, because one of thethings is we're running our OpEx
down to almost zero all thetime.
It's uncomfortable, but you getused to it after a while.
(27:40):
And so then I'm like this willnever happen again.
So I opened up an insuranceaccount and then started funding
it and funding it.
And then, um, I got.
You ever get those chills Like,ooh, did I do that?
Like a year later I'm like, ohmy God, I got the bill.
I'm like, oh my God, did Iplease, please say I opened an
account for this, linda?
Did we open?
Yep, you got it, Ron, and themoney's all in here.
(28:01):
Yes, high five.
So you know when in doubt, openan account.
Tina Smith (28:10):
Yeah, especially for those expenses that you are
likely to forget about, ifyou're anything like me.
Now, some people are verydetailed, but I am not, and I
forget that things are going tocome up and then they happen and
they're big expenses.
Insurance is a great example ofone of them, and when it hits
I'm always like, oh, do I havethe money to pay it?
And then you go look in theaccount and there it is.
(28:32):
So just takes a lot of thatextra worry off of a business
owner's plate.
When you're allocatingimmediately, as soon as the
money comes in, you don't haveto think about and worry about
am I going to have the moneywhen the bill comes?
It's there.
Ron Saharyan (28:48):
It's there, you can do it right.
Right, yeah, you can do itright.
Tina Smith (28:51):
That's one of the reasons I love it.
Yeah, yeah.
Ron Saharyan (28:53):
You can do it right.
Tina Smith (28:51):
That's one of the reasons I love it yeah.
Ron Saharyan (28:54):
So here's something else.
We're talking business right,but we're in business for
different purposes and most ofit is life right, for our family
and to help us and them livethe lifestyles.
I have a daughter.
She's 13 years old, she doestrack and it was $75 for track
season.
They don't have a track, theyrun around the parking lot.
(29:16):
Okay, one of our members hasfive children.
Each one of them is a DivisionI athlete.
He spends over $50,000 a yearon sports travel, leagues,
coaches, stuff like that.
Right, lacrosse is big overhere in New Jersey.
A season is three grand right.
(29:38):
Equipment sticks are a hundreddollars In the book Profit.
First, mike was so destitutethat he couldn't even pay $25
for his daughter's ridinglessons.
How many parents are tellingtheir kids no for sports because
they cannot afford it?
That is a travesty in my mind.
(29:59):
Okay, and so one of the thingsI recommend is a sports travel
account.
Okay, allocate that money allyear long into a sports travel
account, regardless of what itis.
That way, you're always able tohave that for your children.
You can look at it like layawayfor Christmas.
(30:20):
You can have a Christmasaccount right.
That's what we're talking about.
We're talking about fiscalresponsibility and purpose.
When things are good, you knowand things are easy, but you
know.
When things got bad during the,you know the, whatever, the
virus, you saw what reallyhappened.
And then all the money,everything.
(30:42):
You started seeing innovationlike crazy, crazy innovation.
Then all the PPP money and theinnovation stopped because
everybody got comfortable again.
Now everybody who took thatmoney has to pay that back.
More people, more people.
So, if you've taken money,allocate debt, debt account,
stuff like that, because it'scoming.
But that's all we're reallytalking about, guys, is real
(31:05):
fiscal responsibility and tryingto get out of the comparison
business.
Amanda Ballard (31:11):
So what I'm hearing and I know you had
mentioned this earlier is one ofthe obstacles for people is
that their ego can get too big.
What are some of the otherobstacles that people have to
work through before theyimplement Profit First, Yep, a
couple of things.
Ron Saharyan (31:28):
My company is so unique it'll never work.
No, it's not.
I've worked with you, knoweverything from startups to a
hundred million dollarbusinesses in almost every
country.
You know of every currency, ofany domain.
It'll work.
Okay, my company's too small,my company's too big, right?
(31:50):
So again we're talking there.
The best one is the best one.
My accountant says I don't needit, get yourself a new
accountant.
Anytime your accountant orbookkeeper or tax professional
says you don't need this, askthem what is the pay yourself
(32:12):
first system that they'rerunning in their business and
that they're teaching to theircustomers to ensure that the
business owner is profitable andthey're paying themselves first
.
If any accountant says, well,you sell, right, you sell, you
manage your expenses, yeah, then, whatever you have left over,
(32:32):
that's your profit.
Run for the hills?
Okay, that's the same thingover and over and over.
They're not opening.
How are they doing for you now?
Are they giving you advice?
Are you meeting with themstrategically?
Do you want to meet with youraccountant?
Do you want a relationship withyour accountant?
(32:53):
Right, I talk to my bookkeeperevery other Thursday at 10 am.
It's 15, 20 minutes.
It's a cash call.
Ron, you have all theseaccounts.
This is what your positions are.
This is money in, this is moneyout.
What do you got going on?
I pay for that.
Then the accountant that youdon't talk to.
(33:15):
If you don't talk to youraccountant or they're not
strategizing with you quarterly,it's a problem.
It's a problem also if you askthem for your updated financials
and they say why do you needthem?
Okay, get yourself a newaccountant.
If they say, um, yeah, yeah,you don't need.
(33:40):
Oh, you don't need.
That is the worst.
Oh, it'll take so much time forme to reconcile.
Oh, but they just don't want todo it.
They're you know, accounting isit?
It's guaranteed business.
Like doctors, people are goingto be sick.
I mean, I know a lot of theaccounting dirty secrets and
(34:04):
accountants don't run goodbusinesses.
A lot of them don't Just like alot of lawyers, don't Just like
a lot of doctors, don't.
They run great practices for youguys.
They're great at deliveringtheir accounting services, their
tax services, their legal stuff, but behind the scenes, they're
a hot mess, just like everybodyelse.
That's why it's mandatory ofevery single one of our
(34:24):
certified accountants to beexperiencing profit first.
That's why certification cantake up to six months.
That's why we really make sure,because it's a lot more than
just taking a little bit ofmoney and putting it in a bucket
.
But that's the best place tostart.
The best place to start is toopen up one account, start
putting one to 3% in there, letit ride, see how it does.
(34:48):
Then, whatever that purpose ison that bank account it could be
to pay down debt, it could beto celebrate, whatever it
happens to be.
Start that way, build it up,then stack another one, then
another one, then another one.
Tina Smith (35:05):
Yeah, and I think, ron, that's how I started.
For sure, I opened two accounts.
My current bank would let me doit, and so I started with a
profit account and a tax account, and then I left the other one
as the operating account becauseI was like, oh, this is going
to be too hard.
I did my own accounting so itwas like this is going to be too
(35:26):
hard to keep up with.
I don't want to sit here andallocate money and then put
money back and figure all thisout every single week, every
whatever, and it turned intosomething that was so easy.
It took me five to 15 minutes aweek, then it was every other
week.
So it's easier than you think,but just getting over that
(35:48):
mental barrier of this is goingto be complicated, and then it
turns into something that's awhole lot easier once you start
doing it.
Ron Saharyan (35:54):
You're absolutely right, and our whole thing is it
doesn't have to be complicated,and then it turns into
something that's a whole loteasier once you start doing it.
You're absolutely right, andour whole thing is it doesn't
have to be complex to beimpactful, right.
But the thing is is we have atendency to overcomplicate
things.
That's why I break it down inits simplest form Open up a bank
account and allocate one tothree percent, keep it off to
the side, see what happens,focus, right.
(36:16):
But also, you know, go line byline over your P&L, line by line
, and question every single lineon there Is this necessary for
the survival of the business?
And if it's a no, get rid of it.
And all that waste, all thatstuff that you're getting rid of
(36:36):
, that instantly goes to profitor owner's pay, that easy.
And so, by going line by lineby line also then doing an
inventory analysis, an inventoryreview, you know that's another
thing.
You know, do we have productthat is just lying around?
Right, then we need to do aproduct profit analysis.
(36:59):
We might enjoy making this oneproduct and it might sell a lot
because it's cheap.
But this one we have so muchmore margin on, and if we just
push this one a little bitharder, we would be less effort
and more money, right, and sothere's all sorts of fun things
we can do once we have clarity,but if we're just all over the
(37:20):
place without the clarity, we'regoing to be making the same
decisions.
Tina Smith (37:26):
Yeah, and that's something that we come in.
It's the same kind of thingwith marketing too.
You start with the small thingsthat are going to have high
impact and then you can starthaving more fun where you dig
into the analysis of, okay, whatproducts are selling well and
which ones have the most margin?
Which are the most popular?
Are any of these bought at thesame time?
(37:48):
You know we can start mixingand matching, but you have to
start simple first.
Are you sending out emailsevery week?
There are small things that youcan do that make big impact,
and that's what I think aboutthis opening the one to two
accounts and starting to put oneto 3% in each of them for taxes
and profit, and then you canget more fun with it, like
having your insurance account,and then the next year don't
(38:10):
worry about it.
It's these incremental changesthat end up making a really big
difference over three years,five years 10 years in, and then
you're in an entirely differentplace.
Ron Saharyan (38:23):
When in your business, when things start
taking a downturn to thebusiness, I've noticed that in
restaurants that usually thendefault to cheaper ingredients.
Does that happen in yourindustry as well?
Tina Smith (38:43):
Well, I mean I think Amanda can speak to from the
manufacturer perspective thatwe've seen.
Some of these manufacturersthat are going after bigger
revenue dollars will changeingredients so that they can get
into food, drug and mass likeWalmart those kind of places,
and then but they'll have highermargin in some of our
(39:05):
independent retail stores thatwe work with.
But they change formulations toget the bigger revenue grab and
it's stuff that they couldn'tget away with.
Amanda Ballard (39:15):
In a health food store with a more educated
staff and consumer base thatknows, oh, these are the more
effective forms of B vitamins,but they'll put them in the
products at Walmart under thesame type of packaging, hard to
tell the difference between thetwo.
So that is something that hasbeen happening much more over
(39:35):
the last few years than I wouldlike.
Ron Saharyan (39:39):
Yeah, no.
And so how does the businessthat specializes in the really
good stuff remain competitive?
Well, they have to build thatinto their marketing, they have
to build that into their pricing.
They have to build that intotheir education of the outside
world.
You have to educate more andmore and more and more and more
(40:02):
as the quality of your stuffgets more expensive compared to
some of the other stuff.
But also, I think the businessowner has to make a decision as
to who their market is Right.
Tina Smith (40:20):
Yeah, and some of that analysis as to what is the
more profitable margin that willallow me to still create a
really great product that peoplereally need, and where can I go
for that, which is one of thereasons that we love the
independent retail channelbecause, they prefer the best
ingredients.
They're going to keep thatmargin high for different, for
the manufacturers, and they'regoing to get the product to
(40:42):
consumers who really need it.
Ron Saharyan (40:44):
And they're.
They realize that, that, that,that that person making the
stuff really like when you'reselling to Walmart and some of
these other you know, rite Aid's, walgreens, stuff like that
it's all contracts, it's allgovernment pricing, it's all
this, it's all nonsense, it iswhatever.
(41:06):
But they don't care about yourculture, they don't care about
your philanthropic opportunities, they don't care.
If you want to give staffvacation, profit sharing, they
don't care.
And so what is the businessthat you're designing?
What do you care about?
Because if we care about someof these other things, well,
(41:26):
we're going to have to priceaccordingly.
We're going to have to havefiscal controls in place.
We're going to have to reallyhave a pulse and clarity on our
cash flow, especially forsmaller.
Tina Smith (41:36):
Yeah, yeah and really get creative around it.
Well, ron, this has beenamazing.
Thank you so much for spendingtime with us, and I think it's
going to be really helpful,especially for some of our
smaller retailers, who I promisesome of the complaints or the
(41:57):
frustrations that we get comingin the door is I haven't paid
myself in years, and so having asystem like this I think could
be life changing for them.
If they will start small andstick with it over the years and
probably hire a Profit Firstprofessional to help them out,
I'll tell you what?
Ron Saharyan (42:16):
I've got five gift books for anybody in your
audience.
If anybody reaches out to you,ladies, and says, hey, I'd love
a copy of Profit First, I've gotfive copies.
All you have to do is email metheir addresses and I'll send
them a copy in the mail.
Tina Smith (42:32):
Perfect, yeah, we will have a form available for
people associated with thispodcast episode, so thank you so
much for doing that.
Ron Saharyan (42:40):
Yeah, absolutely.
Tina Smith (42:41):
We appreciate it.
So if anyone does want to reachout to a Profit First
Professional, where should theygo?
Ron (42:49):
Profitfirstprofessionalscom .
Pretty simple, easy enough,yeah, and you can connect on me
on LinkedIn, facebook, anywhere.
I'm the only Ron Saharian outthere, I believe.
Yeah, hook me up.
I'll be more than happy toanswer any questions that you
have Awesome Well.
Amanda Ballard (43:05):
Thank you so much for being with us today,
ron.
Ron Saharyan (43:08):
Yeah, guys, thank you for having me, it was a
pleasure.
Amanda Ballard (43:11):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (43:22):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
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