March 5, 2025 • 25 mins
Are you tired of letting perfectionism hold you back from achieving your business goals? This episode dives deep into the idea that striving for perfection can often lead to stagnation rather than success. Join us as we unpack the common challenges that many business owners face when battling their inner critic and fear of failure. Through engaging stories and insights from marketing expert Seth Godin, we delve into why embracing imperfection could be the key to unlocking real progress.
We explore practical strategies to overcome the paralyzing urge to perfect every detail before taking action. You’ll hear valuable tips about prioritizing consistency in your marketing campaigns and understanding when it’s okay to let go of perfection. We also discuss legal compliance issues in promotional events and how to manage those without becoming overwhelmed.
Ultimately, this episode is all about empowering you to take bold steps—regardless of imperfections. It’s time to stop waiting for everything to be “just right” and start implementing those ideas you’ve shelved. Listen in for real-life success stories that showcase the benefits of jumping into action, even when the outcome may not be flawless. Let’s foster a community of business owners who encourage each other to keep moving forward, even if that means taking imperfect steps along the way. Join us, subscribe, and engage as we work together to reach more people and change more lives!
Connect with us:
Email: info@naturalproductsmarketer.com
About Amanda Ballard
Amanda has worked in natural products marketing in the retail setting since 2016 and has a great understanding of the unique challenges and opportunities that retailers in this industry face. More than anything, she wants this industry to continue to boom and believes much of that success hinges on the ability of retailers to do well in their businesses and market their products effectively.
About Tina Smith
Since 2014, Tina has worked with multiple natural products businesses, discovering how to market their CBD products online, without having their payment processor shut them down, to letting customers talk about their health issues those products have helped them solve. She knows first hand how experts like you offer the best products and a superior customer experience, that is why she is committed to helping you find an easy way to grow your natural product business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tina Smith (00:00):
But I was listening to Seth Godin talk about some
marketing stuff and he said thatmediocre people aren't bad at
what they do.
Mediocre people are afraid tofail, so they don't try anything
.
Welcome to the Natural ProductsMarketer Podcast.
(00:21):
I'm Tina.
Amanda Ballard (00:23):
And I'm Amanda, and we're here to make marketing
easier for natural productsbusinesses, so you can reach
more people and change morelives.
Tina Smith (00:33):
Hi there and welcome back to the Natural Products
Marketer Podcast.
I'm here with Amanda Ballardtoday and we are going to be
talking about perfection beingthe enemy of progress, and this
is near and dear to my heart,because I like things to be
right.
Amanda, I don't know how youmight feel about it.
Amanda Ballard (00:52):
I have issues.
So just to fill you in, becauseI feel like you know you might
know this about me, but mostpeople might not I was a
straight A student in school andB equaled bad, so this
resonates very, very well withme, and I've had to wrestle with
(01:14):
this idea of being okay, withbeing good and not perfect,
especially in my professionalcareer.
So, yeah, that's definitely whyI wanted to talk about this.
Tina Smith (01:26):
Yeah, it's really funny too that you say that.
That brings up all kinds ofmemories for me as well.
I was a straight A student andI did not like a B.
Coming home with a B, wewouldn't get in trouble, but it
was just like, oh man, I couldhave, I could have made an A on
that, and then I would secondguess all the things that I did
(01:48):
that led to a not perfect score.
It could be on a test, itdidn't even have to be for the
subject matter, but that was abig deal.
We were performers in my house,educationally at least.
Well, we were performers, let'sbe honest, and so I think I do
(02:10):
wonder if that might havecontributed to it.
This idea of failure is not anoption was a lot of what was
sort of.
It's just how we lived.
I don't remember my parentsenforcing that or really saying
it, but um, I think it's us.
Amanda Ballard (02:31):
Maybe it's the middle child syndrome could be.
Tina Smith (02:34):
Well, but I will say , like my older sister
definitely is a perfectionistand she is concerned, and she is
concerned, highly concerned, ifthings aren't exactly right,
probably even more than I am.
So I don't know if it's just amiddle kid thing, but now we've
(02:55):
outed ourselves, we're bothmiddle kids guys.
So if you were wondering, like,what's the problem?
Amanda Ballard (03:02):
Now you know.
Tina Smith (03:04):
It explains everything.
Explains a lot, for sure.
But I was listening to SethGodin talk about some marketing
stuff and he said that mediocrepeople aren't bad at what they
do.
Mediocre people are afraid tofail so they don't try anything,
and I thought that wasinteresting because, I don't
(03:28):
know, I'm sort of wrestling withhow I feel about that
particular statement from him,but I will say I think that not
failing as a business, onpurpose even, is something that
contributes to mediocrity as abusiness yeah, that's a really
interesting thought and I could.
Amanda Ballard (03:50):
my gut reaction was like oh, I'm offended
because I'm like don't call memediocre just because I don't
want to fail.
But it makes total senseBecause, yeah, if you don't, if
you're not willing to take therisk at failing, like you could
miss out on greatness.
So it makes sense, like you'realways, you're just going to be
(04:11):
fine, yeah.
Tina Smith (04:17):
So that does make a lot of sense by that statement
when I was listening to it thismorning and it did make me think
about what we were about totalk about.
So I think this is a perfectsegue into talking about
perfectionism.
And when we're talking about it, of course, if you're a
manufacturer and you have tomake sure that your product's
(04:38):
safe, that is the perfect timeto be safe.
Yeah, perfect, like, do thatright.
So we're not saying like takerisks everywhere.
Amanda Ballard (04:51):
Right, right, but where do we see people,
business owners in particular,falling into this trap of
perfectionism in their businessand it ends up slowing them down
in the long run.
Tina Smith (05:05):
Yeah, I think it's when I find it a lot with design
.
I find it a lot with emails,just emails, just the words in
an email.
And so, or hey, I don't haveall the right words to say just
yet to do this educationalseminar myself, all the right
(05:28):
words to say just yet to do thiseducational seminar myself,
when I know, basically the fouror five tenants I want to talk
about to people, and I know onlyeight to 10, maybe 12 people
are going to show up and I stilldon't do it because it's not
going to be perfect yet.
And I think those are theperfect places to fail Getting
the words a little bit wrong inan email, getting things that
(05:50):
look OK but aren't brilliantlydesigned.
And even these moments whereit's low stakes, in front of 10
to 12 people, for you to get upand get a lot of great feedback
around your education, becausepeople are going to be like,
okay, well, that didn't meananything to me, but I really
(06:11):
would like to know this becauseyou're going to have personal
conversations with people.
So those are the moments, andespecially when I talk about
email.
I know you want to get most ofthe words right whenever you're
sending those out, but the factthat you're connecting on a
regular basis.
Being consistent is way moreimportant than being perfect in
the email game.
Amanda Ballard (06:32):
Right, because in reality, who's going to
remember every word that youwrote in an email?
Tina Smith (06:37):
They're not.
And one of my favorite emailsto read all the time is from a
lady named Geraldine Carter whodoes coaching for financial
businesses, and at the bottom ofher email there's always a PS
and she misspells a bunch ofstuff in there and she's like
sorry for my typos, and you knowthis is going out every day of
the week and so I'm going tohave typos.
(07:00):
But she makes it funny becauseshe misspells everything on
purpose and I think if we cannot take ourselves so seriously,
like I know, everything sort oflives forever in the world of
social media and you don't wantto make any like huge faux pas,
that's not what we're talkingabout Like do it and move on.
I'm talking about just sendingan email saying what your promos
(07:21):
are for the week, and we've hadpeople really not be able to do
that because they're worriedthat they're not using the right
words or if it doesn't have theright color, and so it's like
sometimes you just got to getsome stuff done.
Amanda Ballard (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, or it just it takes so much longer
than it should like.
By the time you could have sentthat email, but because you
agonized over every word andevery element of the design, you
exhausted your energy for theday and then you're a vegetable
for the rest of the afternoon.
Because you just spent all ofthis energy on something that,
(07:58):
at the end of the day, you'retrying to communicate one thing,
and it didn't have to be such abig deal.
Tina Smith (08:05):
Yeah, and you know we probably contribute to that
sometimes because we're like, oh, this is fine, but it could be
so much better if you would justhave one call to action or if
you just have this high colorcontrast here or if you just did
this.
And there are always ways toimprove these things, to
increase opens and clicks andall the things.
But honestly, like, theconsistency is way more
(08:28):
important than all of thosethings I just talked about,
because those are incrementalimprovements and I promise if
you go from zero to once a weekemails, that is gonna be the
biggest uptick that you're gonnasee.
And then everything else, likethe colors and the colors and
the language and the buttons andwhatever it is, that is going
(08:49):
to be an incremental increaseoff of the base that you're
building by just communicatingon the reg.
Yeah, yeah.
Amanda Ballard (08:57):
So what are some maybe some higher stake things
in operating a business thatbusiness owners want to have all
of their T's crossed and theirI's dotted before they actually
do the thing?
Tina Smith (09:14):
Okay.
So here's an example ofsomething that I was talking
about the other day with aclient, and it's things like
when you decide to do a giveaway, there are rules in every state
.
So, especially if you'reservicing multiple states and
you have to have a language inyour privacy policies and you
(09:35):
have to communicateaccessibility, give you the
smackdown right To make you paypenalties because, oh, you are
leaving a group out or somethinglike that.
(09:55):
So and this happens especiallylike financial place
institutions or real estate youhave to make sure that
everyone's included.
So there's a lot of laws aroundthat and you want to be super
careful that, when you're doingsomething like that, that you're
in compliance with the thingsyou're supposed to be in
compliance about.
(10:15):
So some of the things thatpeople kind of brush off and
bless them for doing it becausethey just run ahead and
sometimes they get in troubleand sometimes they don't.
But you can get really caughtand they can be pretty expensive
fines if you get certain thingswrong around some of these
bigger giveaways, especially ifyou're not getting those right.
(10:37):
The other is just like languageis about what's in the product.
So we talk about Deshaies allthe time and, yes, that's a
concern for you to really be onthe lookout as a retailer.
But I think even more importantthan that is the language that
you're using around.
This product has probioticswhen it hasn't been tested for
(11:00):
probiotics and there's verystrict language around what it
means to be a probiotic.
So some of those things are alittle bit more concerning to me
, especially as we start to talkabout like health, chronic
health conditions.
So those are the things that Iwould be way more careful about,
or something that mightactually exclude a group of
(11:24):
people, something that mightactually exclude a group of
people.
Language around that is waymore important than whether or
not you used the right articlein front of a word.
You know what I'm saying.
Like there are bigger stakesthat cost you way more money as
a company than some of yourgrammatical errors that come out
, and I think some people getreally stuck around commas or
(11:45):
capitalization, right right,those are not the things to be
too careful about.
Amanda Ballard (11:50):
Yeah, but I think it's interesting, you know
, with this example of you know,should we do this giveaway
Because you know we have to getall of these things right there?
This does have to be perfect.
Is it too much work to do thething?
And it's so.
It's this balance of finding,finding the balance of how much
work does it actually take to beperfect versus what the
(12:12):
potential ROI could be if you doall the things right.
And so I think then you kind ofget stuck in this place of is
it worth my time to do it right?
Because I know I have to do itright, but then what could be
the return on that time?
Tina Smith (12:28):
Yeah.
So you know what, two thingsthat just made me think about.
First, having good advisorsthat you can call and be like
hey, I'm about to do this.
Have I thought about everything?
That's one, especially if theyknow the industry or they know
legalities or compliance orwhatever it is.
I think it's very good to havea good team of advisors
(12:50):
supporting you.
They can just do really quickquestions.
The other thing that you can doand again, not legal advice,
but hopping into something likechat, gpt and being like what
are all the things I'm notthinking about?
Here's what I put together forthis thing, what are all the
things I'm not thinking about?
Here's what I put together forthis thing, what are all the
things I'm not thinking aboutand who can help me get this
(13:11):
work done?
And you can get a lot of thingsthat you're like oh my gosh, I
never thought about that thing.
So, like, when we're talkingabout giveaways, I am not
talking about a small giveawayin your store where you're given
a sample of something you'vegot, like a basket put together.
You're probably fine thereLarge scale giveaways that cross
state lines especially if theyend up all the giveaways
(13:32):
together being over like $500 or$5,000, then you have to like
get insurance bonds and thereare things that need to happen.
So that would be like forbigger manufacturers or larger
retailers that have multiplelocations that they should be
thinking about things like that.
But if you're a smallerretailer, I chat GPT is a friend
(13:54):
that you can call and be likeall right, what am I missing?
Help me understand.
And AI something that's anotherthing.
I was listening to that SethGodin marketing podcast today
and he said if you're not usingAI every single day, then
eventually you're going to beafraid of something you don't
understand.
(14:14):
And I thought, oh, wow, that isreally interesting, a good
insight to pass on to peopleworking with this technology
Don't be afraid of it justbecause you don't understand it.
You know, get into it and workwith it and be afraid maybe once
you really do understand it.
But at least you'll know whatyou're afraid of.
(14:36):
And I think, working withsomething like chat GPT on a
regular basis and you candownload it onto your phone and
use it as an app these days butit can help you plan a whole
series of things and you don't.
You know I caution peoplearound using the actual language
that comes out of it because ofcopyright and whatever, but it
(14:56):
can help you brainstorm.
It's just one of the bestbrainstorming partners, even if
it ends up saying you shouldconsult legal counsel on this,
and then you'll be like, oh good, now I know what to ask
whenever I go to them.
Amanda Ballard (15:09):
Yeah, so what are, what are some things that
you found to be helpful when,when you're trying to find a
balance between good enough andperfection in a way that, like,
propels your business forwardbut still maintains a solid
image to the customer?
Tina Smith (15:31):
You know what this makes me think of just having a
good partner on your team.
That balances you out a littlebit.
I know we've talked about thiswith Mike Maddock, but you're
more of a detail person than Iam and I have relied on in my
whole career.
I have relied on people likeyou to keep me from going too
(15:52):
fast, too quickly, too much.
Right, it's like that, hey, butdid you think about this?
It's someone that can point outthat blind spot for you, who's
on your team, who's sort oflooking out and watching what's
happening.
That has saved me from so muchheartache.
And then the other thing is youjust sort of do a calculus in
(16:15):
your head around all right,what's the risk?
And after you've been in thisretail business for a while, you
know things that are risky andthings that aren't.
So it's a calculated.
I mean, every day of our livesis a calculated risk, and I used
to run HR for a big company andthat's one of the things that
we talked about.
They would always be like, am Iallowed to do this?
And I would be like, well, no,that's not the question.
(16:38):
That's not the right question.
The question is what are youtrying to accomplish.
And then what's the best, leastrisky way of doing that?
Because every single activitythat we do is completely risky
(17:03):
thing.
How likely is it that someone'sgoing to do an audit and give
us some sort of fine related tothis, and how important is this
particular goal to the company?
And then you do calculated risksand you move forward.
So a lot of it's and I thinkour brains are doing this so
fast all the time where it'slike, well, it's risky but we're
going to move forward with it.
And honestly again, like whenyou're announcing an event and
(17:26):
people in your store have beenasking for it, so it's an email
that you're sending out toannounce an event there's not
much risk associated with that,but you might have missed a
comma or you might have afragment of a sentence or it
ends up appearing on someone'smobile device different than
what you looked at it.
And sometimes you know businessowners can feel like that is
(17:48):
the end of the world and takinga step back sometimes and going,
no, this will not take mybusiness down, that this
sentence shifted to a differentline when it got on mobile.
It's going to be fine, yeah,and we'll get it right the next
time.
Amanda Ballard (18:04):
So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has been
on the receiving end of an emailreply from the grammar police
that says exactly what you didwrong in your email does happen
more than once, and I and evenas someone who is very aware of
grammatical rules it stillhappens, and so it's like you
(18:27):
just brush it off, let it rolloff your back and move on to the
next one.
Tina Smith (18:32):
I have to tell you, whenever I was working as the
head of marketing for a biggerbusiness in Atlanta, we had done
all this work to put a hugeevent together and then the
first announcement went out andthey clicked on the button in
the email and nothing happened.
It didn't go to a website andit's because there were two T's
(18:54):
right next to each other in thatURL and the person who had put
the link in the email left outone of the T's.
And we all looked at it and wewere like and the CEO's hair was
on fire, you know what I mean?
He was like this doesn't workand we were just like we can't
claw this back from people'semails.
What are we going to do?
We sat there and we looked at itand this guy who did SEO and
(19:17):
web stuff for me, he goes, keepcalm and redirect.
And I was like what?
He goes, I just bought the URL,we can just redirect that URL
to the right URL.
Everything's going to be fineand it was fixed in five minutes
.
Sometimes you do workaroundsafter, honestly, after you've
messed something up.
Amanda Ballard (19:37):
That's great.
I love that Because so manytimes that's happened.
I mean whether or not you canpivot that quickly.
I mean that that takes aspecial team, but that that's
awesome.
Tina Smith (19:48):
We made.
We made t shirts because youknow that keep calm and whatever
it was so popular Carry on yeah, yeah At the time.
And so we we had keep calm andredirect t shirts that we.
There's nothing more marketinghumor than that for sure.
Yes, I love it.
Amanda Ballard (20:08):
Well, I feel like, after having talked about
this idea of perfection beingthe enemy of progress, I feel
like I'm more motivated now tojust like, keep, keep going.
Like I don't know about you,but like we have so many things
(20:31):
on our to do list and it's justlike and I do I do personally
get a high from checking off allof the boxes, but I feel like
now I want to do it even faster,as long as it's, you know,
still still good, um, but it'slike we have to keep the ball
rolling because that's the onlyway that you're going to get
(20:52):
that avalanche effect.
Tina Smith (20:54):
Yeah, and you know what this just brings to mind.
Two quick examples of wherethis is coming really handy.
Of where this is coming reallyhandy.
One is there was a retailerthat we were working with that
was not doing weekly emailsbecause they were like I can't
get it right and I just don'thave the time to sit through and
(21:15):
read it and read it and read itand make it happen.
We implemented weekly emailswithin a couple of weeks.
We could see the trajectory waslike 14% increase in revenue,
15% increase in revenue duringsummer months, and so I heard
back from that retailer likeI've been waiting for this to be
(21:38):
perfect.
I wish I had done this soonerfor this to be perfect.
I wish I had done this sooner.
Thank you for helping me havegood over perfect and have money
in my pocket now to do thingsthat I need to do.
They needed to make somecapital investments in their
building and they were able todo that because they hit send.
(22:00):
We helped devise the marketingstrategy and the message and
they hit send.
Even though it was nervewracking or they didn't have
enough time to review orwhatever the thing was.
They hit send and it worked.
So that's thing one.
The example two for me is youand I were working on a
different project and we got toa situation and I'm always
(22:25):
pushing like it's not perfect,but just turn it on, turn it on,
turn it on and somethinghappened.
You asked me a question and Iwas like Ooh, this is a deal
breaker because because the goalwas increased online sales.
And I was like they are goingto tank that goal.
They're not only going to totank that goal, they're not only
going to not hit that goal,they're going to go reverse
(22:47):
because of this thing.
So that's why, whenever we'retalking about measuring like
it's, does this help me reachthe goal?
Does it get me closer to thegoal even if it's not perfect,
or does this keep me fromgetting my goal or detract from
it?
And this was a moment where Iwas like the user experience is
so bad on this that this willput them in reverse.
(23:08):
And then we had to work it out.
So we had to take a little bitmore time to work some things
out and get some things right.
And I think that's the calculusthat people need to go through
when they're making thisdecision around perfection.
It's always what's the end goalin mind and how much does this
get me toward it or maybedetract from it?
And again, a good advisor thatcan help you see when
(23:30):
something's going to be reallybad versus it's good enough,
let's.
Let's keep this going sohelpful and a good team.
Amanda Ballard (23:38):
Yeah, for sure I love it.
Well, hopefully you are allencouraged, and maybe our new
t-shirt should say just send it.
And I know I just saidreiterate, which means that
(24:08):
we're doing it again.
Tina Smith (24:09):
I got it, grammar police, but I'm going to say it
again Email is the number oneway that I have seen in every
retail store that you canincrease your revenue.
So just hit, send.
Amanda Ballard (24:24):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (24:35):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
But I was listening to Seth Godin talk about some
marketing stuff and he said thatmediocre people aren't bad at
what they do.
Mediocre people are afraid tofail, so they don't try anything
.
Welcome to the Natural ProductsMarketer Podcast.
(00:21):
I'm Tina.
Amanda Ballard (00:23):
And I'm Amanda, and we're here to make marketing
easier for natural productsbusinesses, so you can reach
more people and change morelives.
Tina Smith (00:33):
Hi there and welcome back to the Natural Products
Marketer Podcast.
I'm here with Amanda Ballardtoday and we are going to be
talking about perfection beingthe enemy of progress, and this
is near and dear to my heart,because I like things to be
right.
Amanda, I don't know how youmight feel about it.
Amanda Ballard (00:52):
I have issues.
So just to fill you in, becauseI feel like you know you might
know this about me, but mostpeople might not I was a
straight A student in school andB equaled bad, so this
resonates very, very well withme, and I've had to wrestle with
(01:14):
this idea of being okay, withbeing good and not perfect,
especially in my professionalcareer.
So, yeah, that's definitely whyI wanted to talk about this.
Tina Smith (01:26):
Yeah, it's really funny too that you say that.
That brings up all kinds ofmemories for me as well.
I was a straight A student andI did not like a B.
Coming home with a B, wewouldn't get in trouble, but it
was just like, oh man, I couldhave, I could have made an A on
that, and then I would secondguess all the things that I did
(01:48):
that led to a not perfect score.
It could be on a test, itdidn't even have to be for the
subject matter, but that was abig deal.
We were performers in my house,educationally at least.
Well, we were performers, let'sbe honest, and so I think I do
(02:10):
wonder if that might havecontributed to it.
This idea of failure is not anoption was a lot of what was
sort of.
It's just how we lived.
I don't remember my parentsenforcing that or really saying
it, but um, I think it's us.
Amanda Ballard (02:31):
Maybe it's the middle child syndrome could be.
Tina Smith (02:34):
Well, but I will say , like my older sister
definitely is a perfectionistand she is concerned, and she is
concerned, highly concerned, ifthings aren't exactly right,
probably even more than I am.
So I don't know if it's just amiddle kid thing, but now we've
(02:55):
outed ourselves, we're bothmiddle kids guys.
So if you were wondering, like,what's the problem?
Amanda Ballard (03:02):
Now you know.
Tina Smith (03:04):
It explains everything.
Explains a lot, for sure.
But I was listening to SethGodin talk about some marketing
stuff and he said that mediocrepeople aren't bad at what they
do.
Mediocre people are afraid tofail so they don't try anything,
and I thought that wasinteresting because, I don't
(03:28):
know, I'm sort of wrestling withhow I feel about that
particular statement from him,but I will say I think that not
failing as a business, onpurpose even, is something that
contributes to mediocrity as abusiness yeah, that's a really
interesting thought and I could.
Amanda Ballard (03:50):
my gut reaction was like oh, I'm offended
because I'm like don't call memediocre just because I don't
want to fail.
But it makes total senseBecause, yeah, if you don't, if
you're not willing to take therisk at failing, like you could
miss out on greatness.
So it makes sense, like you'realways, you're just going to be
(04:11):
fine, yeah.
Tina Smith (04:17):
So that does make a lot of sense by that statement
when I was listening to it thismorning and it did make me think
about what we were about totalk about.
So I think this is a perfectsegue into talking about
perfectionism.
And when we're talking about it, of course, if you're a
manufacturer and you have tomake sure that your product's
(04:38):
safe, that is the perfect timeto be safe.
Yeah, perfect, like, do thatright.
So we're not saying like takerisks everywhere.
Amanda Ballard (04:51):
Right, right, but where do we see people,
business owners in particular,falling into this trap of
perfectionism in their businessand it ends up slowing them down
in the long run.
Tina Smith (05:05):
Yeah, I think it's when I find it a lot with design
.
I find it a lot with emails,just emails, just the words in
an email.
And so, or hey, I don't haveall the right words to say just
yet to do this educationalseminar myself, all the right
(05:28):
words to say just yet to do thiseducational seminar myself,
when I know, basically the fouror five tenants I want to talk
about to people, and I know onlyeight to 10, maybe 12 people
are going to show up and I stilldon't do it because it's not
going to be perfect yet.
And I think those are theperfect places to fail Getting
the words a little bit wrong inan email, getting things that
(05:50):
look OK but aren't brilliantlydesigned.
And even these moments whereit's low stakes, in front of 10
to 12 people, for you to get upand get a lot of great feedback
around your education, becausepeople are going to be like,
okay, well, that didn't meananything to me, but I really
(06:11):
would like to know this becauseyou're going to have personal
conversations with people.
So those are the moments, andespecially when I talk about
email.
I know you want to get most ofthe words right whenever you're
sending those out, but the factthat you're connecting on a
regular basis.
Being consistent is way moreimportant than being perfect in
the email game.
Amanda Ballard (06:32):
Right, because in reality, who's going to
remember every word that youwrote in an email?
Tina Smith (06:37):
They're not.
And one of my favorite emailsto read all the time is from a
lady named Geraldine Carter whodoes coaching for financial
businesses, and at the bottom ofher email there's always a PS
and she misspells a bunch ofstuff in there and she's like
sorry for my typos, and you knowthis is going out every day of
the week and so I'm going tohave typos.
(07:00):
But she makes it funny becauseshe misspells everything on
purpose and I think if we cannot take ourselves so seriously,
like I know, everything sort oflives forever in the world of
social media and you don't wantto make any like huge faux pas,
that's not what we're talkingabout Like do it and move on.
I'm talking about just sendingan email saying what your promos
(07:21):
are for the week, and we've hadpeople really not be able to do
that because they're worriedthat they're not using the right
words or if it doesn't have theright color, and so it's like
sometimes you just got to getsome stuff done.
Amanda Ballard (07:35):
Yeah, yeah, or it just it takes so much longer
than it should like.
By the time you could have sentthat email, but because you
agonized over every word andevery element of the design, you
exhausted your energy for theday and then you're a vegetable
for the rest of the afternoon.
Because you just spent all ofthis energy on something that,
(07:58):
at the end of the day, you'retrying to communicate one thing,
and it didn't have to be such abig deal.
Tina Smith (08:05):
Yeah, and you know we probably contribute to that
sometimes because we're like, oh, this is fine, but it could be
so much better if you would justhave one call to action or if
you just have this high colorcontrast here or if you just did
this.
And there are always ways toimprove these things, to
increase opens and clicks andall the things.
But honestly, like, theconsistency is way more
(08:28):
important than all of thosethings I just talked about,
because those are incrementalimprovements and I promise if
you go from zero to once a weekemails, that is gonna be the
biggest uptick that you're gonnasee.
And then everything else, likethe colors and the colors and
the language and the buttons andwhatever it is, that is going
(08:49):
to be an incremental increaseoff of the base that you're
building by just communicatingon the reg.
Yeah, yeah.
Amanda Ballard (08:57):
So what are some maybe some higher stake things
in operating a business thatbusiness owners want to have all
of their T's crossed and theirI's dotted before they actually
do the thing?
Tina Smith (09:14):
Okay.
So here's an example ofsomething that I was talking
about the other day with aclient, and it's things like
when you decide to do a giveaway, there are rules in every state
.
So, especially if you'reservicing multiple states and
you have to have a language inyour privacy policies and you
(09:35):
have to communicateaccessibility, give you the
smackdown right To make you paypenalties because, oh, you are
leaving a group out or somethinglike that.
(09:55):
So and this happens especiallylike financial place
institutions or real estate youhave to make sure that
everyone's included.
So there's a lot of laws aroundthat and you want to be super
careful that, when you're doingsomething like that, that you're
in compliance with the thingsyou're supposed to be in
compliance about.
(10:15):
So some of the things thatpeople kind of brush off and
bless them for doing it becausethey just run ahead and
sometimes they get in troubleand sometimes they don't.
But you can get really caughtand they can be pretty expensive
fines if you get certain thingswrong around some of these
bigger giveaways, especially ifyou're not getting those right.
(10:37):
The other is just like languageis about what's in the product.
So we talk about Deshaies allthe time and, yes, that's a
concern for you to really be onthe lookout as a retailer.
But I think even more importantthan that is the language that
you're using around.
This product has probioticswhen it hasn't been tested for
(11:00):
probiotics and there's verystrict language around what it
means to be a probiotic.
So some of those things are alittle bit more concerning to me
, especially as we start to talkabout like health, chronic
health conditions.
So those are the things that Iwould be way more careful about,
or something that mightactually exclude a group of
(11:24):
people, something that mightactually exclude a group of
people.
Language around that is waymore important than whether or
not you used the right articlein front of a word.
You know what I'm saying.
Like there are bigger stakesthat cost you way more money as
a company than some of yourgrammatical errors that come out
, and I think some people getreally stuck around commas or
(11:45):
capitalization, right right,those are not the things to be
too careful about.
Amanda Ballard (11:50):
Yeah, but I think it's interesting, you know
, with this example of you know,should we do this giveaway
Because you know we have to getall of these things right there?
This does have to be perfect.
Is it too much work to do thething?
And it's so.
It's this balance of finding,finding the balance of how much
work does it actually take to beperfect versus what the
(12:12):
potential ROI could be if you doall the things right.
And so I think then you kind ofget stuck in this place of is
it worth my time to do it right?
Because I know I have to do itright, but then what could be
the return on that time?
Tina Smith (12:28):
Yeah.
So you know what, two thingsthat just made me think about.
First, having good advisorsthat you can call and be like
hey, I'm about to do this.
Have I thought about everything?
That's one, especially if theyknow the industry or they know
legalities or compliance orwhatever it is.
I think it's very good to havea good team of advisors
(12:50):
supporting you.
They can just do really quickquestions.
The other thing that you can doand again, not legal advice,
but hopping into something likechat, gpt and being like what
are all the things I'm notthinking about?
Here's what I put together forthis thing, what are all the
things I'm not thinking about?
Here's what I put together forthis thing, what are all the
things I'm not thinking aboutand who can help me get this
(13:11):
work done?
And you can get a lot of thingsthat you're like oh my gosh, I
never thought about that thing.
So, like, when we're talkingabout giveaways, I am not
talking about a small giveawayin your store where you're given
a sample of something you'vegot, like a basket put together.
You're probably fine thereLarge scale giveaways that cross
state lines especially if theyend up all the giveaways
(13:32):
together being over like $500 or$5,000, then you have to like
get insurance bonds and thereare things that need to happen.
So that would be like forbigger manufacturers or larger
retailers that have multiplelocations that they should be
thinking about things like that.
But if you're a smallerretailer, I chat GPT is a friend
(13:54):
that you can call and be likeall right, what am I missing?
Help me understand.
And AI something that's anotherthing.
I was listening to that SethGodin marketing podcast today
and he said if you're not usingAI every single day, then
eventually you're going to beafraid of something you don't
understand.
(14:14):
And I thought, oh, wow, that isreally interesting, a good
insight to pass on to peopleworking with this technology
Don't be afraid of it justbecause you don't understand it.
You know, get into it and workwith it and be afraid maybe once
you really do understand it.
But at least you'll know whatyou're afraid of.
(14:36):
And I think, working withsomething like chat GPT on a
regular basis and you candownload it onto your phone and
use it as an app these days butit can help you plan a whole
series of things and you don't.
You know I caution peoplearound using the actual language
that comes out of it because ofcopyright and whatever, but it
(14:56):
can help you brainstorm.
It's just one of the bestbrainstorming partners, even if
it ends up saying you shouldconsult legal counsel on this,
and then you'll be like, oh good, now I know what to ask
whenever I go to them.
Amanda Ballard (15:09):
Yeah, so what are, what are some things that
you found to be helpful when,when you're trying to find a
balance between good enough andperfection in a way that, like,
propels your business forwardbut still maintains a solid
image to the customer?
Tina Smith (15:31):
You know what this makes me think of just having a
good partner on your team.
That balances you out a littlebit.
I know we've talked about thiswith Mike Maddock, but you're
more of a detail person than Iam and I have relied on in my
whole career.
I have relied on people likeyou to keep me from going too
(15:52):
fast, too quickly, too much.
Right, it's like that, hey, butdid you think about this?
It's someone that can point outthat blind spot for you, who's
on your team, who's sort oflooking out and watching what's
happening.
That has saved me from so muchheartache.
And then the other thing is youjust sort of do a calculus in
(16:15):
your head around all right,what's the risk?
And after you've been in thisretail business for a while, you
know things that are risky andthings that aren't.
So it's a calculated.
I mean, every day of our livesis a calculated risk, and I used
to run HR for a big company andthat's one of the things that
we talked about.
They would always be like, am Iallowed to do this?
And I would be like, well, no,that's not the question.
(16:38):
That's not the right question.
The question is what are youtrying to accomplish.
And then what's the best, leastrisky way of doing that?
Because every single activitythat we do is completely risky
(17:03):
thing.
How likely is it that someone'sgoing to do an audit and give
us some sort of fine related tothis, and how important is this
particular goal to the company?
And then you do calculated risksand you move forward.
So a lot of it's and I thinkour brains are doing this so
fast all the time where it'slike, well, it's risky but we're
going to move forward with it.
And honestly again, like whenyou're announcing an event and
(17:26):
people in your store have beenasking for it, so it's an email
that you're sending out toannounce an event there's not
much risk associated with that,but you might have missed a
comma or you might have afragment of a sentence or it
ends up appearing on someone'smobile device different than
what you looked at it.
And sometimes you know businessowners can feel like that is
(17:48):
the end of the world and takinga step back sometimes and going,
no, this will not take mybusiness down, that this
sentence shifted to a differentline when it got on mobile.
It's going to be fine, yeah,and we'll get it right the next
time.
Amanda Ballard (18:04):
So I'm sure I'm not the only one that has been
on the receiving end of an emailreply from the grammar police
that says exactly what you didwrong in your email does happen
more than once, and I and evenas someone who is very aware of
grammatical rules it stillhappens, and so it's like you
(18:27):
just brush it off, let it rolloff your back and move on to the
next one.
Tina Smith (18:32):
I have to tell you, whenever I was working as the
head of marketing for a biggerbusiness in Atlanta, we had done
all this work to put a hugeevent together and then the
first announcement went out andthey clicked on the button in
the email and nothing happened.
It didn't go to a website andit's because there were two T's
(18:54):
right next to each other in thatURL and the person who had put
the link in the email left outone of the T's.
And we all looked at it and wewere like and the CEO's hair was
on fire, you know what I mean?
He was like this doesn't workand we were just like we can't
claw this back from people'semails.
What are we going to do?
We sat there and we looked at itand this guy who did SEO and
(19:17):
web stuff for me, he goes, keepcalm and redirect.
And I was like what?
He goes, I just bought the URL,we can just redirect that URL
to the right URL.
Everything's going to be fineand it was fixed in five minutes
.
Sometimes you do workaroundsafter, honestly, after you've
messed something up.
Amanda Ballard (19:37):
That's great.
I love that Because so manytimes that's happened.
I mean whether or not you canpivot that quickly.
I mean that that takes aspecial team, but that that's
awesome.
Tina Smith (19:48):
We made.
We made t shirts because youknow that keep calm and whatever
it was so popular Carry on yeah, yeah At the time.
And so we we had keep calm andredirect t shirts that we.
There's nothing more marketinghumor than that for sure.
Yes, I love it.
Amanda Ballard (20:08):
Well, I feel like, after having talked about
this idea of perfection beingthe enemy of progress, I feel
like I'm more motivated now tojust like, keep, keep going.
Like I don't know about you,but like we have so many things
(20:31):
on our to do list and it's justlike and I do I do personally
get a high from checking off allof the boxes, but I feel like
now I want to do it even faster,as long as it's, you know,
still still good, um, but it'slike we have to keep the ball
rolling because that's the onlyway that you're going to get
(20:52):
that avalanche effect.
Tina Smith (20:54):
Yeah, and you know what this just brings to mind.
Two quick examples of wherethis is coming really handy.
Of where this is coming reallyhandy.
One is there was a retailerthat we were working with that
was not doing weekly emailsbecause they were like I can't
get it right and I just don'thave the time to sit through and
(21:15):
read it and read it and read itand make it happen.
We implemented weekly emailswithin a couple of weeks.
We could see the trajectory waslike 14% increase in revenue,
15% increase in revenue duringsummer months, and so I heard
back from that retailer likeI've been waiting for this to be
(21:38):
perfect.
I wish I had done this soonerfor this to be perfect.
I wish I had done this sooner.
Thank you for helping me havegood over perfect and have money
in my pocket now to do thingsthat I need to do.
They needed to make somecapital investments in their
building and they were able todo that because they hit send.
(22:00):
We helped devise the marketingstrategy and the message and
they hit send.
Even though it was nervewracking or they didn't have
enough time to review orwhatever the thing was.
They hit send and it worked.
So that's thing one.
The example two for me is youand I were working on a
different project and we got toa situation and I'm always
(22:25):
pushing like it's not perfect,but just turn it on, turn it on,
turn it on and somethinghappened.
You asked me a question and Iwas like Ooh, this is a deal
breaker because because the goalwas increased online sales.
And I was like they are goingto tank that goal.
They're not only going to totank that goal, they're not only
going to not hit that goal,they're going to go reverse
(22:47):
because of this thing.
So that's why, whenever we'retalking about measuring like
it's, does this help me reachthe goal?
Does it get me closer to thegoal even if it's not perfect,
or does this keep me fromgetting my goal or detract from
it?
And this was a moment where Iwas like the user experience is
so bad on this that this willput them in reverse.
(23:08):
And then we had to work it out.
So we had to take a little bitmore time to work some things
out and get some things right.
And I think that's the calculusthat people need to go through
when they're making thisdecision around perfection.
It's always what's the end goalin mind and how much does this
get me toward it or maybedetract from it?
And again, a good advisor thatcan help you see when
(23:30):
something's going to be reallybad versus it's good enough,
let's.
Let's keep this going sohelpful and a good team.
Amanda Ballard (23:38):
Yeah, for sure I love it.
Well, hopefully you are allencouraged, and maybe our new
t-shirt should say just send it.
And I know I just saidreiterate, which means that
(24:08):
we're doing it again.
Tina Smith (24:09):
I got it, grammar police, but I'm going to say it
again Email is the number oneway that I have seen in every
retail store that you canincrease your revenue.
So just hit, send.
Amanda Ballard (24:24):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (24:35):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
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