February 28, 2024 • 53 mins
Our guest Seth Spears was a homeschool consultant who became a digital marketing whiz and now flourishes in the natural products industry. He discusses his transformative journey, merging personal passions with professional pursuits, including his influential role in the Wellness Mama community. We talk his creation of sought-after natural personal care products, underscoring the power of audience attunement and seizing golden opportunities.
Our conversation reveals Wellness Mama's early strategies for standing out in the digital wilderness, from generating content to fostering real conversations with online communities. You'll glean insights into how maintaining your brand's core, coupled with the agility to adapt to digital winds, can maintain essential lines of communication with your tribe.
Connect with us:
Email: info@naturalproductsmarketer.com
About Amanda Ballard
Amanda has worked in natural products marketing in the retail setting since 2016 and has a great understanding of the unique challenges and opportunities that retailers in this industry face. More than anything, she wants this industry to continue to boom and believes much of that success hinges on the ability of retailers to do well in their businesses and market their products effectively.
About Tina Smith
Since 2014, Tina has worked with multiple natural products businesses, discovering how to market their CBD products online, without having their payment processor shut them down, to letting customers talk about their health issues those products have helped them solve. She knows first hand how experts like you offer the best products and a superior customer experience, that is why she is committed to helping you find an easy way to grow your natural product business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Seth Spears (00:00):
I'm a big picture thinker and I have the ability
to spot patterns and trends andconnect dots that a lot of
people don't so, for example,Welcome to the natural products
marketer podcast.
Tina Smith (00:14):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
I so I'm so excited to have youon the natural products
marketer podcast today.
When I was reading through yourbio, I thought, oh man, this is
a dream guest for our audience.
(00:35):
And Yet first we should talkabout the fact that we have so
much in common Bengals, whotoday and go get out of here.
Seth Spears (00:44):
You're a Bengals fan, are you I?
Tina Smith (00:47):
mean talking about it that much this year, but Well
, burrows out for the year.
Seth Spears (00:52):
So yeah, you're from Cincinnati originally.
Tina Smith (00:55):
I'm not from Cincinnati.
It's a crazy story.
I didn't get into footballuntil later in life.
I was dating a guy who was veryinto football and that showed
that it was an HBO show what wasit?
Where they follow the teamsaround.
Seth Spears (01:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was a Three or four years ago,
yeah.
Tina Smith (01:14):
Well, no, it was gosh, that was 10 and that was
over 10 years ago.
I think For the first time theywere on that show where they
followed him around, and I fellin love with the team and Marvin
Lewis.
Seth Spears (01:30):
Okay.
So I have to ask was it thecolors?
Tina Smith (01:35):
No, it wasn't.
It was watching that show andwatching their personalities,
like you saw things about theirfamily and I Was just like oh
yeah.
I just like these guys.
So it was back when ocho Cincowas on the team.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic thecats look really good this year
.
As far as I think you know,they're brand new freshman team.
(01:55):
I think they're gonna be greatin the years to come.
Seth Spears (01:59):
Hopefully.
I mean, you know Calipari is agreat recruiter.
You know there's a lot ofpeople last year, the past
couple years, that are like, hey, maybe it's time for him to go,
just because of how quickly youbowed out of the tournament and
just Upsets and things likethat.
So We'll see, I don't know.
Tina Smith (02:16):
I'm always hopeful, all right.
Well, let's get to somethingthat the people who are
listening actually want to talkabout, which is natural products
marketing.
Seth Spears (02:25):
We can combine both .
Tina Smith (02:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Look, you have been involvedwith a lot of different natural
products companies, so I wouldlove to know, like, what was
your journey getting into thisindustry?
Seth Spears (02:40):
2009, I stepped away from my last real job I was
living in Nashville, tennessee,with my then wife and kids at
the time and Move back toKentucky where I'm originally
from, and I'd gone out of my ownWanted to do consulting for it
for homeschool studentspreparing for college.
I was homeschooled from Akindergarten all the way through
(03:02):
high school, so the first timeI ever actually sat in a
classroom or took a test or hadto take Notes was my freshman
year of college.
So and then I worked incollegiate admissions After that
.
So I was the assistant directorof admissions for a college in
Nashville and so I had thisintimate knowledge of what it
was like to be homeschooled andAlso, on the collegiate side, on
how to, what you needed to doto prepare for college, for
(03:23):
admissions, for scholarships,financial aid, all of that.
So I wanted to go out on my ownand do independent consulting
for homeschool students.
So as part of that, I created awebsite and created a course
and was doing consulting andRealized there's not a lot of
money in it, because mosthomeschool students don't know
that they need this and most ofthe parents they either aren't
(03:45):
willing to spend the money ordon't realize how needed it is
as well.
But that kind of awakened to methe entrepreneurial bug of oh,
I actually like making websitesand Figuring out how to get
traffic and things like that,because I was a marketing major
in college and so I'd alwaysbeen super fascinated by tech
and playing around blogs andJust anything technology related
(04:06):
, so I just really enjoyed it.
So I decided to start amarketing firm and building a
websites for small businessesand just getting people online
and back in.
You know, 2009, 2010, there wasa lot of small businesses that
either didn't have a webpresence or they had a really
crappy one.
I just didn't work very wellbecause just because you have a
(04:26):
website doesn't mean thatanybody can find it.
So, and at the same time, IConvince my now ex-wife to start
a blog in the health ofwellness space, in which I used
as a testing ground for mypaying clients, and that website
was wellness mama calm, whichbecame one of the most popular
health and wellness websites formoms.
I'm actually the most popularhealth and wellness website for
(04:51):
moms all around natural healthand DIY tutorials and how to
make personal care products andhealthy recipes and everything
around that, and we started apodcast for that in 2014, which
has done incredibly well over ahundred million downloads In the
past nine years and, just youknow, has become a major thing.
I was still running my, mydigital agency, spears,
(05:13):
marketing and Growing that andusing wellness mama as a testing
ground, and those tests workedreally well and I started
getting really burnt out onclient services so I decided I'm
gonna go on in and grow thisthing that I started with her
and you can really help a lot ofpeople and being get to work
(05:34):
together and just just builtsomething bigger.
And so when I went on growingwellness mama and that became a
major website, major majorplatform, and Then there was a
lot of tutorials that we had onthere and how to make organic
personal care products from home, because at the time we're kind
of when she started doing that,we were broke and Wanted
(05:54):
healthy products for our familyand making products in the
kitchen, and so when theaudience really liked those
products, but they were tired ofmaking them themselves and so
when you hear that story enoughtimes, you realize that there's
an opportunity for a business,and so from there, we launched
wellness, which is a brand oforganic personal care products
(06:17):
based on those Creations thatKatie had created in our kitchen
so many years ago and watchthat in 2020 so fast forward.
During COVID, we really grewapart and the marriage Ended and
so we kind of we parted waysand I took over running wellness
, she took over running wellness, mama.
(06:39):
And that's been my primary focusthe past few years is growing
this, this little baby brand ofpersonal care products in the
e-commerce space to toprofitability and Just growing
and molding that.
And then I also launched a brandand now through a equipment
company with my brothers acouple of years ago called
(06:59):
rewild gear, and so that wasreally to scratch my own itch.
I've always been super into theoutdoors, into camping, hunting,
backpacking and just spendingas much time in nature as
possible, and then, with mydivorce, I've leaned into that a
whole lot more, just spendingmore time in nature and figuring
out who I am at my core andjust really grounding and so
that.
(07:19):
So the company has reallyplayed into that and creating
really high quality andminimalistic gear for the
camping, hunting and backpackingspace, and so that's been my
focus the past few years.
It's just been growing, growingcompanies in the e-commerce
world and doing consulting forcompanies that are growing, and
just with my background incontent creation and SEO and
(07:40):
social media and web design, andreally just using those
learning experiences and toolsto Help companies that are on a
mission to make better productsthat are better for you, better
for the environment, or on amission to do something bigger
than just themselves.
So that's kind of in theTrajectory in a nutshell, over
the past decade.
Tina Smith (08:01):
Yeah, that's so amazing and just listening to
your story I resonate with somuch of it Spending time in the
outdoors being healing, helpingwith mental health and Figuring
out what's next in life whenthings don't go the way you
thought they were going to.
I have a lot of experience withthat as well.
Took a brief sabbatical at onepoint and Got on a bicycle, went
(08:25):
on the road for two months inEurope across seven countries,
just like, alright, figure thisout, what's next, what am I
doing?
Seth Spears (08:34):
We're all.
Were you traveling during thattime?
Tina Smith (08:36):
Oh gosh, I landed in Austria.
I did so Austria, germany, theNetherlands, belgium, france,
england.
And I'm missing one.
I can't Luxembourg.
Seth Spears (08:51):
That's incredible.
So I actually studied inAustrian college.
Oh, I have a strong affinityfor for Austrian culture, and
just everything being thefoothills of the Alps is just
amazing.
Tina Smith (09:03):
Amazing, yeah, and it was very healing at the time
and helpful and figuring out,okay, what am I doing with my
life now?
I don't know if it was amidlife crisis or what, but it
was a good time to get out thereand just Feel what it feels
like to not be in front of ascreen all the time, but People
(09:23):
are in front of screens all thetime, which is one reason that
we're trying to figure out.
How do we help people find theproducts, the natural products,
that they are searching for andthat they really need in their
lives, which sounds like youhave a lot.
It sounds like you made thisbeautiful pairing of you know
figuring out things online withhey, I can create businesses out
(09:47):
of things that I needed myselfand Solving a problem that maybe
you had.
Tell me a little bit more aboutwhen you guys started wellness,
mama.
What was Maybe some key thingsthat you did online that wasn't
being done at the time so thatyou could rank higher and people
could find you?
Seth Spears (10:08):
Great question.
You know I'm a big picturethinker and I have the ability
to spot patterns and trends andconnect dots that a lot of
people don't.
So, for example, I would lookat what other industries are
doing and then bringing themover into the health space.
So in a lot of the differentniches that we can get into in
different industries, we look atwhat everyone else is doing,
(10:29):
and so we're very focused onwhat are my competitors doing or
other people within theindustry?
And well, that's fine, you cando that.
That's not very original, andso I always want to do things
that are bigger and better andmore original, more authentic
than anyone else.
So I would look at what peoplein the marketing space were
doing, people in the outdoorspace, people in other
industries and not just healthand wellness and then bring them
(10:50):
into that space.
So, for example, with from amarketing perspective, I looked
at how can we optimize thingsbest for SEO.
So just look in.
You know this was years ago, soa lot has changed over the
years and the same tools andstrategies don't work
necessarily.
But just looking at the topicsthat we're covering, how can we
(11:13):
answer all those questions thatsomeone might be answering?
How can we be the Wikipedia ofour industry?
So if someone has a questionabout anything, I mean,
wikipedia is obviously such abreadth of knowledge.
So how can we answer all thosequestions and do that better
than anyone else?
And so that was kind of thestrategy around it.
And then also started off injust building an audience
(11:34):
building community, first of all, just by creating amazing,
amazing quality content and thengoing out and did a lot of
comment marketing.
So, for example, there areother blogs and websites and
forums and groups where peoplehad questions and talking about
health topics, and so one of thestrategies was to just engage
there, and not from apromotional or spammy point of
(11:57):
view, but just engaging andbeing interested in what people
were doing and asking questionsand answering questions and
providing resources and then, ifit had sense, having a link
back to the website so thatpeople could learn more, or this
is what we found helpful andeven just like within the
blogging community.
You know you had somethingcalled a gravatar or an avatar
(12:17):
so that it was assigned to yourprofile and you had, like, your
website link.
So if people could click on thecomment that you left, they
would link back to your profileand see the website that you had
, and so that was one way ofjust getting people interested
in coming back and learning more.
And then using social media, andobviously this has changed so
much.
Like organic reach isn't likeit was.
I mean, those were the good olddays when you know you post
(12:38):
something on a page andeverybody that follows it would
get a notification about it, asopposed to now it's pay to play.
So some of those strategiesdon't work as well as they used
to, but a lot of those thingsthey're not duplicatable at
scale and so bigger companiesthey weren't necessarily willing
to do that.
And so that was a way todifferentiate and separate out
(12:59):
from what others are doing orjust caring more.
So back when we had started thething, Katie was replying back
to every email that would comethrough and just giving a damn.
You know, caring more thananyone else, Because that's
something that if you canseparate yourself from your
competitors by being moreauthentic, by going deeper, by
(13:21):
just doing things that are moreauthentic to you, that's the way
to stand out, Because people,they'll stick around and they
will follow someone or a brandbased on that message and
showing that you really care andyou're not just in it for the
money or in it just to buildsomething, grow it and sell it,
but you're actually want to makea difference.
I think that's one of the mostimportant parts.
Tina Smith (13:43):
Yeah, that's what I find so encouraging about being
in this community, because itseems for the most part now
there are some nefarious playersout there, but for the most
part in the natural productsindustry, it is all about heart
and soul.
So what we try to bring to thetable is hey, we want to help
you actually make money out ofthis too.
(14:03):
Sometimes it's so heart andsoul that they forget that this
is.
They need to bring in somerevenue as well.
But I love some of thosestrategies that you were talking
about, and while it's notexactly that way and it's not
exactly anymore, the algorithmshave changed and different
things have evolved, but thisone to one communication is
(14:24):
still important.
So finding these online communalplaces where people are hanging
out, answering questions,replying to things online
whether it's on your website orsocial media is a great way.
Dms on Instagram are a greatway to connect with your
(14:45):
audience, or answering questionson platforms that people are
just they built a communityaround a topic.
You hop on there.
You can answer questions onReddit.
It's a great place still.
So there are a lot of thesestrategies that the essence of
them remains the same.
It's how is the tactics thathave changed a little bit, but I
(15:08):
think you're right.
It's one way that helps you beunique and stand out in this
crowded online space, where nowthe Amazons and Whole Foods and
all those big box players of theworld are coming into natural
products, and so creating arelationship, even if it's
online, is still a great way togrow your market.
Seth Spears (15:30):
Yeah, and there's also a lot of greenwashing
within the industry that peoplesay that they're getting in it
for the right reasons and yet,maybe because they have
investors, maybe because theyhave shareholders or
stakeholders who are moreinterested in profiting than
actually making a difference andbeing a change maker.
I think that's one of thereasons why there's multiple
(15:51):
reasons.
So for Wild Nass, we havereally leaned into the
sustainability side.
So, for example, I think one ofthe biggest issues that we're
facing in the world today ispollution, is how our soil
depletion, all the chemicalsthat are going into our water,
our air, our soil these aremajor issues that people are
(16:13):
starting to talk about more, butthey're not realizing how the
supply chains affect that.
Single use plastics is aperfect example.
So we realized when we wanted tostart the company that we have
to do things differently.
One of the ways todifferentiate a product
ingredients.
Obviously, because I will putour products up against anyone's
just from the ingredients andthe quality and the efficacy of
(16:35):
how well they work.
However, what about ourpackaging?
What about the supply chain?
So, for example, our tubes, thetubes of toothpaste, our
shampoo and conditioner we use arecycled sugarcane bioplastic
that is compostable in eithercommercial composter or in some
of the countertop compostersthat you see now, like the Lomi
device.
So our tubes you put those inone of those countertop
(16:57):
composters.
It turns into dirt overnight.
So that is something that noother company is doing.
They're always talking about,oh, it's recyclable, yeah, but
how much of that stuff isgetting recycled, you know?
And it's still using single useplastic, which is a problem.
So this was one of the waysthat we wanted to differentiate
ourselves by being better foryou, by what you're putting on
your body, you're putting inyour body, and for the
(17:18):
environment.
How are we affecting our planet, like just with everything that
we're doing, our packaging, thecompostable side, or if you can
recycle it or reuse it.
So I think anytime you candifferentiate yourself and
actually do better and not justfor marketing, but actually
because you care, because youreally do give a damn and want
(17:40):
to be better than what's outthere I think that's so
important and that has to alignwith your mission, your big why.
Tina Smith (17:50):
Yeah, it's so.
Some of the things that you'retalking about is this complete
alignment with your values.
So I know there are a lot ofpeople out there that have a lot
of heart and they'll bring itto the forefront in one lane and
it makes a lot of sense.
But what you're talking aboutis, at every point of that
customer experience and productdevelopment, that you are wait,
(18:11):
does this align?
Does this align?
Is there a way that we could dosomething different that aligns
even more?
So we like to think of thecustomer journey, especially
online.
But if there's a true sense thatyou are really trying to create
relationship with your customerfrom a retail store's
(18:32):
perspective or all the way toB2B, if you're a manufacturer
and you're trying to getindependent retailers to have
your products on their shelves,then look at every point of that
customer journey and say, couldI align this more to have a
better relationship, to have amore targeted relationship, to
have something that's morepersonalized for you, to have a
better relationship with thesepeople?
(18:53):
As we're going and the samehappens with all of the
different values, your corevalues, as long as you've
identified them, you can askthat question at every step of
the way.
I'd love that you guys broughtthat into your skincare products
.
Seth Spears (19:07):
Yeah, you know, when it comes to natural
products and things that you'reusing every day, subscriptions
in the e-commerce space.
They're big because it'srecurring revenue and you need
that.
You want people to consume itand come back to purchase again.
So, and you know, we're nodifferent.
However, one of the things weencourage our customers to do is
not order every month.
It's to order every threemonths, but order more, because
(19:30):
then that's going to savepackaging, shipping costs.
It's going to be moreeconomical for them and for us,
so it's a win-win.
A lot of companies they don'tlean into that, but for us it
just makes sense because we wantto do what's best for everyone.
It's got to be a win-win forall parties involved, and so I
think any time that you can findthose opportunities that might
(19:51):
look different than what othersare and just lean into that,
it's going to be better foreverybody.
Tina Smith (19:56):
Yeah, so that's taken that even one step further
.
So subscription models workreally well and you know we talk
to a lot of independent retailstores so they're grappling with
how do we do this wholesubscription model in our store
or in our online platforms.
But I love this idea of and youcan do this with most
(20:16):
supplements they're shelf stablefor a period of time that you
could do these quarterly pushesfor.
Hey, it's time for you to getyour three months supply, and
maybe there's something in thatfor the natural product stores
or the manufacturers, especiallyif they're going B to C on that
.
Hey, because you're right,especially if you are looking
(20:40):
towards sustainability orkeeping that carbon footprint
down, that makes a whole lot ofsense.
So if you're saying that's avalue, this is one other way
that you look at.
Okay, does this align?
Could we make it align better?
Just another illustration thatyou guys were aligning
everything with your valuesthere.
Seth Spears (20:58):
Yeah, exactly, you know, I get really annoyed when
I see companies, especially inthe supplement space, that
they'll sell you a product andthen on the back end they're
trying to sell you like 10 morebottles for a major discount or
price and it's like, okay, great, you're getting a discount and
nobody needs this manyespecially on our first time
purchase because you don't knowif you like it, don't know if it
works for you, and you knowsupplement companies have really
(21:21):
good margins the vast majority.
I mean there's some that don'tcompare to personal care
products where we don't have thesame margins as those do.
So we have to be more carefulwith our marketing and how we're
doing that.
But yeah, but I think it'sincongruent when you're trying
to oversell someone that youknow they don't need that many,
that it just seems wasteful.
(21:41):
And we live in such a massconsumer society and this
instantaneous microwave cultureof we want everything now or
yesterday and so let's buy asmuch as we can and then just
consume it.
And I think we need to consumeless, we need to save more and
just look at how can we haveless consumption and just get
(22:04):
those things that we need.
Purchase those things, but notjust at all cost.
Let's focus on quality overquantity.
Tina Smith (22:11):
Yeah.
Another thing that that bringsto mind for me, seth, is when
you're saying, hey, I'm not afirst time purchase.
These bulk orders might not workor even be the best experience
for the customer.
A lot of people who are new tonatural products, supplements
and that sort of thing, they'renot sure if they really want to
(22:31):
try this product and whether ornot they'll fill a result from
it after using it, and so I'mthinking of ways that you could
sort of take down the risk forthat product or service.
And I do know a lot ofmanufacturers are like hey, if
you're not, if you don't feel adifference when you use this
product or supplement, or ifyou're not satisfied after a
(22:55):
certain period of time, bring itback to the store, we'll
replace it, like things likethat, where you're taking care
of the customer and reducingtheir risk helps them go ahead
and make the decision to givesomething to try, and if they do
enjoy it, that would be theopportunity.
And again, it's thispersonalized marketing and
messaging that comes into playwhen it's like hey, did you see
(23:16):
results from this product?
Did that work for you?
And if the answer is yes, thenokay, that might be the time to
start a subscription or a bulkorder.
Seth Spears (23:26):
Yeah, exactly, and you know the flip side of that
and I try to look at both sidesof every angle, you know, just
to kind of understand and playdevil's advocate.
We also see abuse in there aswell, where customers like
they'll try to make a return,like, oh, I didn't enjoy it.
Well, you use 95% of it.
So what are you talking about?
So it's a little bitdisingenuous, you know, and
there's bad apples, no matterwhat.
But also realizing, justbecause someone else is doing
(23:49):
something that is what I wouldconsider an ethical, that
doesn't mean that we need tochange our strategy because of
that, because we want to dowhat's right, no matter what.
Tina Smith (23:57):
Yeah, it's always that this happens with feedback
to.
We see, you know, one personcomplains about something and
then you try to changeeverything to match that person.
And the truth is that there arebad apples, there are people
that are difficult to deal with,but the majority of the people
that you're working with, if youcater to the people who are
(24:20):
great customers and people thatalign with your values and don't
do these nefarious activitiestrying to get money out of
returns, if you cater to themand just keep in mind that
that's the majority of thepeople that are going to be
coming in and out of your store,and keep that positive mindset,
I think that you know, yes,you're going to take some hits,
(24:42):
but they won't be toooverwhelming.
And that bad customer feedbacknow, if it's over and over again
, especially from your bestclients, it's something to pay
attention to.
But we don't have to payattention to every single bad
comment that comes our way.
Seth Spears (24:58):
Yeah, you know something that I feel like
happens a lot in the healthspace, especially the natural
health space in particular.
A lot of people get into itbecause they're trying to fix
their own issues, their ownallergies, food sensitivities
you know, maybe it's weight loss, who knows and so because of
that they think that everythingcan be an enemy.
You know, like, take gluten,for example.
(25:19):
You know gluten has been sojust made to be a villain in so
many ways.
But I think in health it's thebio individuality of each person
.
You know we're all so differentto our, our genetics, our, our
biology, all of these things,and so what is good for one
person isn't necessarily goodfor everyone else.
(25:40):
It rarely is actually so.
For example, I'm Italian, I dofine with gluten.
You know, like, I can eat wheatand grains and things all day
and no problem.
I don't just so great with cornand beans, you know, but for
someone from, say, a LatinAmerican culture, they do great
with those.
So you know, especially thosethat are in the natural health
(26:01):
space paleo, etc.
Keto they're gonna maligngluten and flour and wheat and
bread and things like this.
So but again, I think that's anexample of trying to make a
common enemy out of somethingthat we have to realize that
there's that individuality foreach one and also taking a stand
for what your brand is.
(26:21):
So, example if you, if youraudience is, has gluten
sensitivity or celiac orsomething, then yeah, you kind
of need to make gluten the enemybecause for that person and for
that audience it is, it is canbe definitely for them or make
them so sick.
So in that instance you need to.
I think where we get intotrouble is if we stop taking a
(26:43):
stand for anything and just likeoh anything goes, or this is
good, that's good, whatever, andthen you have no backbone, and
then your brand is so wishywashy that you don't.
You don't, don't amount toanything, you don't stand for
anything.
So I think that's important too.
Tina Smith (26:59):
Yeah, it just reminds me.
You know, looking deeper intothe science of any of these
gluten, keto, paleo, especiallynutrition we don't know as much
as we claim to know, especiallywhen it comes to the
individuality.
So one of the reasons I lovedoing what we do is because
(27:21):
there's a path to have morepersonalized conversations and a
consultative experience withthe people that you serve, and
this is all related to targetingsorry, segmenting your market
into different needs or casestudies, situations, use, cases
(27:42):
where they might need somethingdifferent than another segment
of your audience, and reallytaking a personalized approach
to how you're messaging.
So maybe there is a slice ofthe pie where you need to talk
about gluten as the enemy, butfor other people they might have
an entirely different issuethat they're dealing with, and
so no need to overwhelm themwith that information and really
(28:05):
work on serving them where theyare, as they come to you.
Seth Spears (28:10):
Yeah, I definitely agree, and I think this is where
AI gets really interesting,where we can analyze people's
needs and who they are based onjust that data, and maybe that's
genetic testing, maybe that'sunderstanding that bio
individuality.
And so, as opposed to justmaking a blanket claim, one of
my biggest pet peeves in thenatural health space, and
(28:32):
especially in the food industry,is labeling something a
superfood right.
So we've seen that in so manycases and I'll give you a
perfect example.
So coconut oil.
Coconut oil became all the rage, like in starting 2011, 2012,
something like that.
From a lot of the work thatI've done over the years,
especially on the wellness momside, that helped to contribute
(28:53):
to that.
You know, wellness mama rankednumber one for the organic term
coconut oil for seven years, Ithink, eight years maybe, so a
very long time.
We sold millions and millions ofdollars worth of coconut oil,
claiming it's a superfood.
And while it can be, is it asuperfood for every person?
The answer is no.
So if someone grew up like inthe Pacific Islands or something
(29:14):
we're used to, eating a lot ofthose types of healthy fats,
coconut oil, and such great forthem For someone that didn't,
someone that grew up, say inAlaska or, you know, in
different areas of the worldwhere they're not used to it.
That's not actually healthy forthem.
There's lots of examples ofpeople developing an allergy or
a sensitivity to it because ofoverconsumption, because their
genetics they didn't supportthat Like.
(29:34):
For me, I've never actuallyliked the smell of coconut oil
or even the taste so much, eventhough we cook with it for a
very long time.
I'm Italian.
Olive oil all day long, baby, Imean, I'll bathe in the stuff
you know.
So it's the bioindividuality ofeach person.
I think we need to take intoconsideration so much more and
stop saying that this is a, thatthere's a one size fits all in,
(29:57):
that it's a superfood orsuperproduct that everyone needs
, because the honest truth isthere's not a perfect thing for
every person, or like one thingthat is a perfect fit for
everyone, just because we areall so different.
And so I think calling that outand for companies that are
coming out with a product andstop trying to label it as the
greatest thing ever, becausethat leads to overconsumption
(30:18):
and, honestly, long termnegative effects.
Essential oils are another greatexample of this.
Essential oils became all therage.
It's like oh, you can use itfor this.
It'll cure cancer, you can eatit, you can drink it, you can do
this.
And it was like this newcategory.
And so the amount of plantsneeded to extract an oil are so
great.
We're losing a lot of those andit's causing widespread
(30:38):
destruction because they werenever meant to be utilized in
such such a concentratedcapacity.
And so, I think, differentindustries, they latch on, and
then there's trend followers.
You know, you have your trendsetters and trend followers.
People see a trend and thenthey want to go in and create a
business around that, and inorder for that to be viable long
term, you have to build thiscategory up even more so.
(31:00):
And then, but what are the longterm effects of that?
What are the second ordereffects of that growth?
And I think that's where we'renot paying attention enough to
see what potential destructionthat could have.
Tina Smith (31:14):
Yeah, that brings us back to.
I think you know some peopleare in it for the money, but if
you really are in this becauseyou're passionate about the
health of people and where thiscan make a difference, it's so
important to get to know whoyou're talking to and to make
sure it's not the wrong peoplethat you're trying to serve.
You can call that out on yourwebsite and then your social
(31:35):
media as well.
I think this is part of thattaking a stand for what you
believe, because if you believethat your product can help
people and it's shown results todo that, or a product that you
carry in your store, thendefinitely promote it, but
figure out who it's best for andlet people know if it's not for
(31:57):
them, because I really thinkthis next generation of people
that are looking for naturalproducts are looking for
transparency and people thatthey can believe in, and that's
one way to outcompete theAmazon's of the world, because
they are not going to be able todo that.
Customer reviews might behelpful with that, but there's
(32:19):
not a consultant on Amazon rightnow.
Ai might get us thereeventually, but there's not a
consultant on Amazon right now.
That's going to help you findthe right magnesium if you need
a magnesium supplement, or letyou know that, hey, you should
test your magnesium levels andthen dose to get to a certain
result.
But we know that people in thisindustry, especially the
(32:42):
smaller companies, are nimbleenough to be able to do this and
to have conversations with ourcustomers, and if you really
believe in people's well-being,then finding out more about your
customer is exactly the routeto go, I think.
Tell me more about wild gearand the growth that you've put
(33:03):
into that.
What are some tactics thatyou're using to promote your
wild gear company?
Seth Spears (33:09):
Yeah, so for real wild gear and full transparency.
It is definitely the fun sideproject that we have not reached
profitability yet, so I amstill learning and going into a
new industry can be a challenge,and there were some strategic
errors that I made whenlaunching the company.
For example, the way thatWellNest grew.
We already had a built-inaudience from what we had done
(33:31):
on the Wellness On the Site andthen leveraging connections and
other people in the space thatcould help promote and grow With
free wild gear.
This was a passion projectwhere I wanted to create the
highest quality gear for theoutdoor space and really to
scratch my own itch.
So the history for the companywas my three brothers and I were
sitting around a campfire,drinking bourbon and comparing
knives and we grew up inKentucky and loved camping and
(33:53):
hunting and backpacking and justspending time in nature and
we're all gear heads.
We always want the best qualityover quantity, but we always
purchased lots of different onesto test out and see what we
liked and try to find theperfect knife.
So we're sitting around thiscampfire and just comparing
knives and started theconversation of what would the
perfect knife look like?
If you were going to create it.
(34:14):
What would you do differently?
The ones you have or the onesyou tested out and so we started
just sketching out ideas.
So that was over 10 years agonow, and then, when COVID came
around, I had the realizationthat one of the things, with all
the lockdowns, that peoplecould still do was get into
nature and go camping and spendmore time.
So it's a perfect time tolaunch a company.
(34:34):
However, what I didn't take intoconsideration was the fact that
it's a lot easier to buildsomething and grow something if
you already have an audience tosell to and finding out what
they want.
So for Wild Nests, we hadfeedback and examples that
people they wanted a naturaltoothpaste that worked really
well, that the tutorials andrecipes that we had over on Wild
(34:56):
Nests, hollandcom, that peoplecould test out and make
themselves, but they got tiredof making it themselves and
wanted us just to sell it.
So I didn't do that samestrategy for wild gear.
So that's definitely been alearning experience, and so
that's something that we'rereally leaning into is how can
we build more community?
How can we engage people thatare already in the outdoor space
and that are looking for thesetypes of products?
(35:18):
So, for example, we make knivesand fire starters and
backpacking, grills and campingutensils, and so there's and
that's also across severaldifferent sub genres of the
outdoor space.
You know you've got hunting,you've got bushcraft, you've got
survival, you've got hiking,you've got camping.
So they're all generally subsub niches within the greater
outdoor space, and so I'velearned a lot.
(35:40):
Unfortunately, most of mygreatest learnings have been
what not to do.
I think that's a lot of people.
So you know we're stilllearning and growing and going
from there.
Tina Smith (35:54):
That's so interesting to hear, because
obviously you had a lot ofsuccess with wellness and
wellness, mama, and thenlaunching out to do a new thing.
It just reminds me that pastsuccess does not indicate future
success and that you reallyhave to be aware of what you're
launching into you.
And a lot of the things that wefind very successful for
(36:16):
product manufacturers and forindependent retailers alike is
this network building thiscommunity first, and a network
of people who are referring inand out of your store or for
your products.
And I think it just goes backto prove nature's done it best
(36:37):
Always.
If we think about fungalnetworks and the soil and how
they communicate to each other,hey, I need this resource, and
then an impulse goes out andpulls the resource or finds it.
You know, and I think we needthe same thing in the business
community.
You need a community of peoplein your industry.
You need a community of people,like you were talking about,
who are not in your industry, sothey can bring the new ideas to
(36:58):
the table and help you finddifferent ways of doing things,
so you don't look just like theother guy.
And then you need the communitythat you're developing with
your customers and reallylistening, doing a lot of that
customer, listening for thosesignals of what people want,
versus just necessarilyscratching your own itch.
(37:19):
Scratching a niche is a greatplace to start, by the way, but
it doesn't tell you everythingabout all types of people who
might need or want to buy yourproduct, pricing the type of
gear that they want, that kindof thing.
So, that's a lesson for everyone, I think.
Seth Spears (37:37):
Yeah, I agree, and I love the example of the
Mycelio networks because thoseare absolutely fascinating and
like how they grow and work andhow similar they are to the
brain as well as far as thoseneural pathways and such.
But yeah, you do bring up areally good point about having
those different types ofcommunities that you can learn
from and pass on.
With WellNess there was a painpoint.
You know people that they soour best selling product is our
(38:01):
whitening toothpaste, so we havethe best ingredients around.
One of our differentiatingfactors is we use our active
ingredients calledhydroxyapatite, which is a
naturally occurring mineral thatwe get from some mines in
France.
So we use a microhydroxyapatite, which is the smallest particle
that is naturally available.
Our competitors, who also usehydroxyapatite, they use nano,
(38:24):
and so that is not a naturalparticle and we want to be as
natural as possible, and sothat's why we chose what we use,
and there's different theorieson which works better.
All the studies that I've seen,micro is just as effective as
nano.
So we also don't use glycerinor fluoride or any of the other
crap that a lot of the othersuse.
So we're able to differentiatebased on that, and there has
(38:45):
been a pain point that customershave had, trying to find
natural products that actuallywork.
Because, unfortunately, thepersonal care products that
we've gone into no matter hownaturally oriented someone is,
what's either eating organic andyou know they've switched out
or they're purchasing theproducts that a lot of people
often wouldn't switch would betoothpaste, shampoo and
(39:05):
conditioner and deodorant,because those are those personal
care products that you want tolook good, you want to smell
good, you want things to justwork.
But the natural side often theywere not as effective as some
of those conventional ones.
So our goal was to createproducts that were more
effective than the conventionalalternatives, and so there was a
(39:27):
pain point that we could speakto.
So for Rewild Gear because thiswas scratching our own itch
there wasn't a pain point thatwe were solving.
It was more I'm a gear guy, Ilove camping gear and just
having the best and just findingwhat works for me.
But often it's so individual,based on where you're having
(39:49):
your outdoor adventures, at thetype of gear that you need,
based on that.
So it wasn't necessarily a painpoint like the personal care
side was, and so that'ssomething else to take into
consideration when you'restarting a company or when
you're looking at thepositioning and your brand
messaging Where's the pain thatsomeone has and how can you
solve for that?
(40:09):
So that's been a big lesson forme as well.
And then someone how can wefind those pain points that
someone might be in and use someof those psychological triggers
for our own marketing andmessaging?
Tina Smith (40:21):
Yeah, 100%.
We talk about that all the time.
If you're not solving a problem, then you're going to have a
problem from your business.
So definitely find the painpoint and I love that you just
talked about those personal careproducts.
My friends and I were justtalking the other day like have
you found a natural deodorantyet that works?
(40:42):
So we might be coming to yoursite to take a look.
Seth Spears (40:46):
Well, yes, natural deodorant works pretty darn well
.
Tina Smith (40:49):
All right.
Well, I might be giving thoseaway for Christmas to people
just to see and have everyonetry that out, but since it does
work, this is the perfect timefor us to promote like hey, give
it a try, because that'sdefinitely a pain point that I
and my friends have been tryingto solve, and I'm sure there's a
few other people out there.
Seth Spears (41:10):
Great.
Tina Smith (41:12):
Well, I thank you so much, seth, for your time.
We're sort of reaching the endof our time together, but we
typically go through a list ofquestions that we ask every
guest at the end of the show,and I appreciate all of your
wisdom, and now we can just wrapthis up with a few questions
that we ask everyone, if that'sall right with you.
Seth Spears (41:31):
Yeah, let's go.
Tina Smith (41:32):
All right.
So to keep up and be ready forwhat's next in this industry, as
you're working on wellness,what are you reading, who do you
follow and what types ofcontent are you consuming?
Thank you.
Seth Spears (41:49):
I'm an avid podcast listener and so most of the
podcasts that I consume thereare a lot around personal
development, around business,around marketing in big picture
strategy and thinking.
So if you're familiar with theentrepreneur operating system, I
am definitely the visionary andnot necessarily the integrator.
That's why I enjoy partneringwith others who can handle that
(42:09):
integration side.
So I listen to a lot of things.
That helps spark my creativityso that I can think of new
product ideas, new ways tomarket.
So a lot of things around that.
Within the natural health spaceI do a lot of networking and go
to a lot of different eventswhere I'm saying on top of
things that are going on.
So that's more in-person andnot so much content consumption
(42:30):
there, more in-person contentthan virtual, whether that's
blogs or podcasts or books orthings.
But I just try to keep my thumbon the pulse of everything
that's going on within the space.
Tina Smith (42:42):
Yeah, and you mentioned EOS, which I don't
know if all of our listeners arefamiliar with it or not, but we
are having a guest on thepodcast later next year who's
going to talk about implementingEOS in a natural product store.
So stay tuned for that, becausewe love that operating system.
It's super at helping you stayefficient and running well as a
(43:05):
company.
Seth Spears (43:06):
Yeah, great.
Tina Smith (43:07):
What do you think most people in the natural
products industry wish theycould change about marketing
natural products?
Seth Spears (43:15):
Customer acquisition, I believe, has been
the challenge.
There's so many copycats in theindustry, where people that are
just following trends and theysee that a new product has come
to prominence and so they see anopportunity, so they're just
rushing to create it or whitelabeling something.
(43:36):
So I think it depends on thecompany and what their focus is
and what they're doing.
For those that are reallyauthentic in doing creating
something that's new andinnovative and really solving a
problem within the industry, Ithink getting a clear message
across and being very clear andfocused on that, and just
(43:57):
customer acquisition that isprofitable, because often you're
taking a loss on the first timeand then, if the products are
great, that can work, because onthe back end you're going to
get repeat buyers, depending onwhat the product is and it's
consumable and things like that.
Yeah, so I think I would saythat customer acquisition and
(44:17):
whether that's figuring out paidads or organic traffic or
affiliates or influencers, justhaving a clear path forward with
that, because it's all changingso rapidly.
Tina Smith (44:29):
Yeah, and we talk a lot about understanding your
customer lifetime value, likeyou were talking about.
Is this a consumable product?
Are people coming back againand again, so, and how much are
they spending every time and howlong do they stay?
So kind of calculating thatcustomer lifetime value so that
you know how much you can investon the front end, because you
(44:49):
are likely to lose a little biton that first purchase, or
you're going to at least reduceyour margin, but you want to
know how much makes sense foryou to do that, based on how
long are they going to stay, howmuch are they going to spend,
or does that margin look likeover time?
Seth Spears (45:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Tina Smith (45:08):
So what's the single biggest decision you feel like
has led to your success in thisindustry?
Seth Spears (45:13):
My formula for success has always been do the
right things long enough,consistently.
There's some caveats there.
What are the right things?
How long is long enough, andwhat does it mean to be
consistent?
If you can answer thosequestions for you and for your
business, I think that's wheresuccess happens.
(45:33):
And the other thing that I'vepaid attention to and realized
within that framework is that ifyou can figure out what your
skill set is, so what you'renaturally going to, what you
enjoy and where there's a needin the market, then that's where
the magic lies.
So it's a combination of yourskill set, what you enjoy where
(45:56):
they're in the market, and thendoing the right things long
enough consistently to meetthose needs.
Tina Smith (46:02):
Yeah, and usually doing those right things is
exponential.
So sometimes you don't evenrealize when you're almost there
, and then there's a tippingpoint and then everything sort
of comes together.
Seth Spears (46:14):
So yeah it's easy to see that tipping point.
It's easy to see that tippingpoint in hindsight, but when
you're in it it's a lot hardertoo.
Tina Smith (46:23):
So therein lies the challenge.
Yeah, 100% agree.
What do you think is thebiggest challenge for this
industry in the next three tofive years?
Seth Spears (46:33):
For companies that are just getting started,
competition is really fierce andwe're seeing so much
copycatting going on.
Amazon is obviously huge.
They're the 100-pound gorillain the room and anytime a new
product is created or a companystarts something and they sell
on Amazon, Amazon has all thatdata and then they're going in
(46:55):
and creating something verysimilar Now the Amazon brand.
People will sometimes justpurchase that because it's
cheaper, it's whatever, but tome that's a commodification and
I don't ever want to compete ona commodity.
I want to differentiate withwhat I'm doing so that customers
(47:16):
will continue to come back andpurchase from me.
So I think that's where brandbuilding is so important.
People do business with thosethat they know, like and trust,
and so if you can differentiateyourself and create a brand, a
message, a story that resonatesso much, that that's how you
continue to get customers.
So it's always interesting to mewhen companies they want to
(47:37):
create something specificallyfor Amazon because they see
that's where the biggestpotential is in the market and
yeah, well, that's true.
I think long term they're doingthemselves a disservice.
And so because a brand isnothing more, it's a promise,
it's the look, the feel, thetaste, the smell, everything
that is who you are as anorganization, and so if you can
(47:57):
lead with those things, and evenif you're selling on Amazon or
other marketplaces, that's fine,but bring them back into the
fold, into your community, intoyour website whether that
Shopify or WooCom or Sumit,Dento or whatever so that you
can get their information andcontinue to market to them, to
provide value and to show themwhy you're different than
everyone else.
Tina Smith (48:17):
Yeah, and I think that's definitely a trend that
we're seeing, especially withyounger buyers, that they want
to know who is making thisproduct, that it's a real person
, and so I think that's a clearway to have a competitive
advantage in this digital space,especially when you're
competing with bigger companieslike Amazon.
Seth Spears (48:37):
Yeah, it's interesting.
What I see a lot of peopledoing is they'll see a product
and they'll instantly go toAmazon to buy it.
For me, I do the opposite.
If it's a company, I go totheir website.
I want to know who they are,what they're about, what their
ingredient quality is, and allof that.
And this came to fruition evenmore during COVID, because, with
the supply chain issues and notbeing able to find products or
get them anything that wasn'tconsidered essential or they
(48:59):
were going up to a high endprice, I would go directly to a
company's website becauseusually the shipping was quicker
I mean because there was nolonger the two-day shipping for
prime numbers, and so that kindof lost the advantage and then I
was usually getting a betterprice.
I was having a directrelationship with that company
and then I could track mypurchases and everything better,
and so I just enjoyed doingthat more and I could also see
(49:20):
what they're doing for theirmarketing, which I like.
Tina Smith (49:22):
Yeah, so I think that's a big trend as well.
So what do you think that morepeople in this industry should
try when it comes to marketing?
Seth Spears (49:34):
I think they should look at things that aren't
being done Instead of lookingwhat others are doing and trying
to follow suit.
Ask the question how can I dothe opposite, how can I
differentiate from everyone elseout there to set myself apart
so that I'm seen as, in thewords of Seth Godin, a purple
cow?
How can I be so different,whether that's my product
(49:55):
quality, my marketing, et cetera?
But I think differentiation isthe key 100% Low hanging fruit.
Tina Smith (50:04):
what things do you think would give most people,
the natural products industry,the biggest win, or the quickest
win in building their business?
Seth Spears (50:13):
Start with family and friends who already know you
, like you and trust you.
Hopefully, give out samples,let them try it, let them be
your evangelist people thatalready have an incentive to
help you because they're friends, they're family and they want
to, and let it grow organicallyfrom there.
So do pay dads you can still doorganic and social, and I think
(50:35):
you should but find thosepeople who would be incentivized
just because of who you are andlet them help you and be your
ambassadors and your evangelistsso that it can spread by relief
from there.
Tina Smith (50:47):
So, even if they're not starting a new product, I
100% agree Find your bestcustomers who have built
relationship with you over yearsand let them help you market
this, because they will.
There are referral things thatyou can put out there incentives
, trials, tests that you canfloat with them, and that is an
(51:08):
organic way to build yourbusiness, and people trust
people they know.
So if they're and also ifyou're talking to your best
customers, then they're going tobring people like them to you.
So it starts to build thiswhole momentum around a type of
customer that you serve verywell.
I love that.
(51:28):
Yes, I agree.
So if people want to follow upwith you, pick your brain about
marketing natural products orjust want to buy some of your
products, where should they goto visit you?
Seth Spears (51:40):
Yeah, great question, Thank you.
So a couple places you can goto wellnesscom W-E-L-L-N-E-S-S-E
so wellness with an E on theend is my brand of organic
personal care products,Rewildgearcom R-E-W-I-L-D
Rewildgear so that's my websitefor my outdoor equipment company
.
I'm pretty active on Instagram,so at Spears Marketing there,
(52:05):
and I do a lot on LinkedIn aswell, so you can just look for
Seth Spears on LinkedIn and youcan just click on the link there
as well.
Tina Smith (52:12):
Awesome Well, seth, it's been such a pleasure having
you Such nuggets of wisdom fornatural products producers or
retailers, I think, and whatthey can do with marketing and
building relationships andstanding out in the crowded
marketplace.
So I really appreciate yourtime and that you are willing to
join us on the podcast today.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Natural Products Marketer
(52:35):
Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful and show
notes for any of those valuableresources that we mentioned on
today's episode and, before yougo, we would love for you to
give us a review, follow, likeand subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, youtube or whereveryou're listening today, and make
sure you join us for our nextepisode, where we give you more
(52:55):
marketing tips so that you canreach more people and change
more lives.
I'm a big picture thinker and I have the ability
to spot patterns and trends andconnect dots that a lot of
people don't so, for example,Welcome to the natural products
marketer podcast.
Tina Smith (00:14):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
I so I'm so excited to have youon the natural products
marketer podcast today.
When I was reading through yourbio, I thought, oh man, this is
a dream guest for our audience.
(00:35):
And Yet first we should talkabout the fact that we have so
much in common Bengals, whotoday and go get out of here.
Seth Spears (00:44):
You're a Bengals fan, are you I?
Tina Smith (00:47):
mean talking about it that much this year, but Well
, burrows out for the year.
Seth Spears (00:52):
So yeah, you're from Cincinnati originally.
Tina Smith (00:55):
I'm not from Cincinnati.
It's a crazy story.
I didn't get into footballuntil later in life.
I was dating a guy who was veryinto football and that showed
that it was an HBO show what wasit?
Where they follow the teamsaround.
Seth Spears (01:11):
Oh yeah, yeah, that was a Three or four years ago,
yeah.
Tina Smith (01:14):
Well, no, it was gosh, that was 10 and that was
over 10 years ago.
I think For the first time theywere on that show where they
followed him around, and I fellin love with the team and Marvin
Lewis.
Seth Spears (01:30):
Okay.
So I have to ask was it thecolors?
Tina Smith (01:35):
No, it wasn't.
It was watching that show andwatching their personalities,
like you saw things about theirfamily and I Was just like oh
yeah.
I just like these guys.
So it was back when ocho Cincowas on the team.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, fantastic thecats look really good this year
.
As far as I think you know,they're brand new freshman team.
(01:55):
I think they're gonna be greatin the years to come.
Seth Spears (01:59):
Hopefully.
I mean, you know Calipari is agreat recruiter.
You know there's a lot ofpeople last year, the past
couple years, that are like, hey, maybe it's time for him to go,
just because of how quickly youbowed out of the tournament and
just Upsets and things likethat.
So We'll see, I don't know.
Tina Smith (02:16):
I'm always hopeful, all right.
Well, let's get to somethingthat the people who are
listening actually want to talkabout, which is natural products
marketing.
Seth Spears (02:25):
We can combine both .
Tina Smith (02:27):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Look, you have been involvedwith a lot of different natural
products companies, so I wouldlove to know, like, what was
your journey getting into thisindustry?
Seth Spears (02:40):
2009, I stepped away from my last real job I was
living in Nashville, tennessee,with my then wife and kids at
the time and Move back toKentucky where I'm originally
from, and I'd gone out of my ownWanted to do consulting for it
for homeschool studentspreparing for college.
I was homeschooled from Akindergarten all the way through
(03:02):
high school, so the first timeI ever actually sat in a
classroom or took a test or hadto take Notes was my freshman
year of college.
So and then I worked incollegiate admissions After that
.
So I was the assistant directorof admissions for a college in
Nashville and so I had thisintimate knowledge of what it
was like to be homeschooled andAlso, on the collegiate side, on
how to, what you needed to doto prepare for college, for
(03:23):
admissions, for scholarships,financial aid, all of that.
So I wanted to go out on my ownand do independent consulting
for homeschool students.
So as part of that, I created awebsite and created a course
and was doing consulting andRealized there's not a lot of
money in it, because mosthomeschool students don't know
that they need this and most ofthe parents they either aren't
(03:45):
willing to spend the money ordon't realize how needed it is
as well.
But that kind of awakened to methe entrepreneurial bug of oh,
I actually like making websitesand Figuring out how to get
traffic and things like that,because I was a marketing major
in college and so I'd alwaysbeen super fascinated by tech
and playing around blogs andJust anything technology related
(04:06):
, so I just really enjoyed it.
So I decided to start amarketing firm and building a
websites for small businessesand just getting people online
and back in.
You know, 2009, 2010, there wasa lot of small businesses that
either didn't have a webpresence or they had a really
crappy one.
I just didn't work very wellbecause just because you have a
(04:26):
website doesn't mean thatanybody can find it.
So, and at the same time, IConvince my now ex-wife to start
a blog in the health ofwellness space, in which I used
as a testing ground for mypaying clients, and that website
was wellness mama calm, whichbecame one of the most popular
health and wellness websites formoms.
I'm actually the most popularhealth and wellness website for
(04:51):
moms all around natural healthand DIY tutorials and how to
make personal care products andhealthy recipes and everything
around that, and we started apodcast for that in 2014, which
has done incredibly well over ahundred million downloads In the
past nine years and, just youknow, has become a major thing.
I was still running my, mydigital agency, spears,
(05:13):
marketing and Growing that andusing wellness mama as a testing
ground, and those tests workedreally well and I started
getting really burnt out onclient services so I decided I'm
gonna go on in and grow thisthing that I started with her
and you can really help a lot ofpeople and being get to work
(05:34):
together and just just builtsomething bigger.
And so when I went on growingwellness mama and that became a
major website, major majorplatform, and Then there was a
lot of tutorials that we had onthere and how to make organic
personal care products from home, because at the time we're kind
of when she started doing that,we were broke and Wanted
(05:54):
healthy products for our familyand making products in the
kitchen, and so when theaudience really liked those
products, but they were tired ofmaking them themselves and so
when you hear that story enoughtimes, you realize that there's
an opportunity for a business,and so from there, we launched
wellness, which is a brand oforganic personal care products
(06:17):
based on those Creations thatKatie had created in our kitchen
so many years ago and watchthat in 2020 so fast forward.
During COVID, we really grewapart and the marriage Ended and
so we kind of we parted waysand I took over running wellness
, she took over running wellness, mama.
(06:39):
And that's been my primary focusthe past few years is growing
this, this little baby brand ofpersonal care products in the
e-commerce space to toprofitability and Just growing
and molding that.
And then I also launched a brandand now through a equipment
company with my brothers acouple of years ago called
(06:59):
rewild gear, and so that wasreally to scratch my own itch.
I've always been super into theoutdoors, into camping, hunting,
backpacking and just spendingas much time in nature as
possible, and then, with mydivorce, I've leaned into that a
whole lot more, just spendingmore time in nature and figuring
out who I am at my core andjust really grounding and so
that.
(07:19):
So the company has reallyplayed into that and creating
really high quality andminimalistic gear for the
camping, hunting and backpackingspace, and so that's been my
focus the past few years.
It's just been growing, growingcompanies in the e-commerce
world and doing consulting forcompanies that are growing, and
just with my background incontent creation and SEO and
(07:40):
social media and web design, andreally just using those
learning experiences and toolsto Help companies that are on a
mission to make better productsthat are better for you, better
for the environment, or on amission to do something bigger
than just themselves.
So that's kind of in theTrajectory in a nutshell, over
the past decade.
Tina Smith (08:01):
Yeah, that's so amazing and just listening to
your story I resonate with somuch of it Spending time in the
outdoors being healing, helpingwith mental health and Figuring
out what's next in life whenthings don't go the way you
thought they were going to.
I have a lot of experience withthat as well.
Took a brief sabbatical at onepoint and Got on a bicycle, went
(08:25):
on the road for two months inEurope across seven countries,
just like, alright, figure thisout, what's next, what am I
doing?
Seth Spears (08:34):
We're all.
Were you traveling during thattime?
Tina Smith (08:36):
Oh gosh, I landed in Austria.
I did so Austria, germany, theNetherlands, belgium, france,
england.
And I'm missing one.
I can't Luxembourg.
Seth Spears (08:51):
That's incredible.
So I actually studied inAustrian college.
Oh, I have a strong affinityfor for Austrian culture, and
just everything being thefoothills of the Alps is just
amazing.
Tina Smith (09:03):
Amazing, yeah, and it was very healing at the time
and helpful and figuring out,okay, what am I doing with my
life now?
I don't know if it was amidlife crisis or what, but it
was a good time to get out thereand just Feel what it feels
like to not be in front of ascreen all the time, but People
(09:23):
are in front of screens all thetime, which is one reason that
we're trying to figure out.
How do we help people find theproducts, the natural products,
that they are searching for andthat they really need in their
lives, which sounds like youhave a lot.
It sounds like you made thisbeautiful pairing of you know
figuring out things online withhey, I can create businesses out
(09:47):
of things that I needed myselfand Solving a problem that maybe
you had.
Tell me a little bit more aboutwhen you guys started wellness,
mama.
What was Maybe some key thingsthat you did online that wasn't
being done at the time so thatyou could rank higher and people
could find you?
Seth Spears (10:08):
Great question.
You know I'm a big picturethinker and I have the ability
to spot patterns and trends andconnect dots that a lot of
people don't.
So, for example, I would lookat what other industries are
doing and then bringing themover into the health space.
So in a lot of the differentniches that we can get into in
different industries, we look atwhat everyone else is doing,
(10:29):
and so we're very focused onwhat are my competitors doing or
other people within theindustry?
And well, that's fine, you cando that.
That's not very original, andso I always want to do things
that are bigger and better andmore original, more authentic
than anyone else.
So I would look at what peoplein the marketing space were
doing, people in the outdoorspace, people in other
industries and not just healthand wellness and then bring them
(10:50):
into that space.
So, for example, with from amarketing perspective, I looked
at how can we optimize thingsbest for SEO.
So just look in.
You know this was years ago, soa lot has changed over the
years and the same tools andstrategies don't work
necessarily.
But just looking at the topicsthat we're covering, how can we
(11:13):
answer all those questions thatsomeone might be answering?
How can we be the Wikipedia ofour industry?
So if someone has a questionabout anything, I mean,
wikipedia is obviously such abreadth of knowledge.
So how can we answer all thosequestions and do that better
than anyone else?
And so that was kind of thestrategy around it.
And then also started off injust building an audience
(11:34):
building community, first of all, just by creating amazing,
amazing quality content and thengoing out and did a lot of
comment marketing.
So, for example, there areother blogs and websites and
forums and groups where peoplehad questions and talking about
health topics, and so one of thestrategies was to just engage
there, and not from apromotional or spammy point of
(11:57):
view, but just engaging andbeing interested in what people
were doing and asking questionsand answering questions and
providing resources and then, ifit had sense, having a link
back to the website so thatpeople could learn more, or this
is what we found helpful andeven just like within the
blogging community.
You know you had somethingcalled a gravatar or an avatar
(12:17):
so that it was assigned to yourprofile and you had, like, your
website link.
So if people could click on thecomment that you left, they
would link back to your profileand see the website that you had
, and so that was one way ofjust getting people interested
in coming back and learning more.
And then using social media, andobviously this has changed so
much.
Like organic reach isn't likeit was.
I mean, those were the good olddays when you know you post
(12:38):
something on a page andeverybody that follows it would
get a notification about it, asopposed to now it's pay to play.
So some of those strategiesdon't work as well as they used
to, but a lot of those thingsthey're not duplicatable at
scale and so bigger companiesthey weren't necessarily willing
to do that.
And so that was a way todifferentiate and separate out
(12:59):
from what others are doing orjust caring more.
So back when we had started thething, Katie was replying back
to every email that would comethrough and just giving a damn.
You know, caring more thananyone else, Because that's
something that if you canseparate yourself from your
competitors by being moreauthentic, by going deeper, by
(13:21):
just doing things that are moreauthentic to you, that's the way
to stand out, Because people,they'll stick around and they
will follow someone or a brandbased on that message and
showing that you really care andyou're not just in it for the
money or in it just to buildsomething, grow it and sell it,
but you're actually want to makea difference.
I think that's one of the mostimportant parts.
Tina Smith (13:43):
Yeah, that's what I find so encouraging about being
in this community, because itseems for the most part now
there are some nefarious playersout there, but for the most
part in the natural productsindustry, it is all about heart
and soul.
So what we try to bring to thetable is hey, we want to help
you actually make money out ofthis too.
(14:03):
Sometimes it's so heart andsoul that they forget that this
is.
They need to bring in somerevenue as well.
But I love some of thosestrategies that you were talking
about, and while it's notexactly that way and it's not
exactly anymore, the algorithmshave changed and different
things have evolved, but thisone to one communication is
(14:24):
still important.
So finding these online communalplaces where people are hanging
out, answering questions,replying to things online
whether it's on your website orsocial media is a great way.
Dms on Instagram are a greatway to connect with your
(14:45):
audience, or answering questionson platforms that people are
just they built a communityaround a topic.
You hop on there.
You can answer questions onReddit.
It's a great place still.
So there are a lot of thesestrategies that the essence of
them remains the same.
It's how is the tactics thathave changed a little bit, but I
(15:08):
think you're right.
It's one way that helps you beunique and stand out in this
crowded online space, where nowthe Amazons and Whole Foods and
all those big box players of theworld are coming into natural
products, and so creating arelationship, even if it's
online, is still a great way togrow your market.
Seth Spears (15:30):
Yeah, and there's also a lot of greenwashing
within the industry that peoplesay that they're getting in it
for the right reasons and yet,maybe because they have
investors, maybe because theyhave shareholders or
stakeholders who are moreinterested in profiting than
actually making a difference andbeing a change maker.
I think that's one of thereasons why there's multiple
(15:51):
reasons.
So for Wild Nass, we havereally leaned into the
sustainability side.
So, for example, I think one ofthe biggest issues that we're
facing in the world today ispollution, is how our soil
depletion, all the chemicalsthat are going into our water,
our air, our soil these aremajor issues that people are
(16:13):
starting to talk about more, butthey're not realizing how the
supply chains affect that.
Single use plastics is aperfect example.
So we realized when we wanted tostart the company that we have
to do things differently.
One of the ways todifferentiate a product
ingredients.
Obviously, because I will putour products up against anyone's
just from the ingredients andthe quality and the efficacy of
(16:35):
how well they work.
However, what about ourpackaging?
What about the supply chain?
So, for example, our tubes, thetubes of toothpaste, our
shampoo and conditioner we use arecycled sugarcane bioplastic
that is compostable in eithercommercial composter or in some
of the countertop compostersthat you see now, like the Lomi
device.
So our tubes you put those inone of those countertop
(16:57):
composters.
It turns into dirt overnight.
So that is something that noother company is doing.
They're always talking about,oh, it's recyclable, yeah, but
how much of that stuff isgetting recycled, you know?
And it's still using single useplastic, which is a problem.
So this was one of the waysthat we wanted to differentiate
ourselves by being better foryou, by what you're putting on
your body, you're putting inyour body, and for the
(17:18):
environment.
How are we affecting our planet, like just with everything that
we're doing, our packaging, thecompostable side, or if you can
recycle it or reuse it.
So I think anytime you candifferentiate yourself and
actually do better and not justfor marketing, but actually
because you care, because youreally do give a damn and want
(17:40):
to be better than what's outthere I think that's so
important and that has to alignwith your mission, your big why.
Tina Smith (17:50):
Yeah, it's so.
Some of the things that you'retalking about is this complete
alignment with your values.
So I know there are a lot ofpeople out there that have a lot
of heart and they'll bring itto the forefront in one lane and
it makes a lot of sense.
But what you're talking aboutis, at every point of that
customer experience and productdevelopment, that you are wait,
(18:11):
does this align?
Does this align?
Is there a way that we could dosomething different that aligns
even more?
So we like to think of thecustomer journey, especially
online.
But if there's a true sense thatyou are really trying to create
relationship with your customerfrom a retail store's
(18:32):
perspective or all the way toB2B, if you're a manufacturer
and you're trying to getindependent retailers to have
your products on their shelves,then look at every point of that
customer journey and say, couldI align this more to have a
better relationship, to have amore targeted relationship, to
have something that's morepersonalized for you, to have a
better relationship with thesepeople?
(18:53):
As we're going and the samehappens with all of the
different values, your corevalues, as long as you've
identified them, you can askthat question at every step of
the way.
I'd love that you guys broughtthat into your skincare products
.
Seth Spears (19:07):
Yeah, you know, when it comes to natural
products and things that you'reusing every day, subscriptions
in the e-commerce space.
They're big because it'srecurring revenue and you need
that.
You want people to consume itand come back to purchase again.
So, and you know, we're nodifferent.
However, one of the things weencourage our customers to do is
not order every month.
It's to order every threemonths, but order more, because
(19:30):
then that's going to savepackaging, shipping costs.
It's going to be moreeconomical for them and for us,
so it's a win-win.
A lot of companies they don'tlean into that, but for us it
just makes sense because we wantto do what's best for everyone.
It's got to be a win-win forall parties involved, and so I
think any time that you can findthose opportunities that might
(19:51):
look different than what othersare and just lean into that,
it's going to be better foreverybody.
Tina Smith (19:56):
Yeah, so that's taken that even one step further
.
So subscription models workreally well and you know we talk
to a lot of independent retailstores so they're grappling with
how do we do this wholesubscription model in our store
or in our online platforms.
But I love this idea of and youcan do this with most
(20:16):
supplements they're shelf stablefor a period of time that you
could do these quarterly pushesfor.
Hey, it's time for you to getyour three months supply, and
maybe there's something in thatfor the natural product stores
or the manufacturers, especiallyif they're going B to C on that
.
Hey, because you're right,especially if you are looking
(20:40):
towards sustainability orkeeping that carbon footprint
down, that makes a whole lot ofsense.
So if you're saying that's avalue, this is one other way
that you look at.
Okay, does this align?
Could we make it align better?
Just another illustration thatyou guys were aligning
everything with your valuesthere.
Seth Spears (20:58):
Yeah, exactly, you know, I get really annoyed when
I see companies, especially inthe supplement space, that
they'll sell you a product andthen on the back end they're
trying to sell you like 10 morebottles for a major discount or
price and it's like, okay, great, you're getting a discount and
nobody needs this manyespecially on our first time
purchase because you don't knowif you like it, don't know if it
works for you, and you knowsupplement companies have really
(21:21):
good margins the vast majority.
I mean there's some that don'tcompare to personal care
products where we don't have thesame margins as those do.
So we have to be more carefulwith our marketing and how we're
doing that.
But yeah, but I think it'sincongruent when you're trying
to oversell someone that youknow they don't need that many,
that it just seems wasteful.
(21:41):
And we live in such a massconsumer society and this
instantaneous microwave cultureof we want everything now or
yesterday and so let's buy asmuch as we can and then just
consume it.
And I think we need to consumeless, we need to save more and
just look at how can we haveless consumption and just get
(22:04):
those things that we need.
Purchase those things, but notjust at all cost.
Let's focus on quality overquantity.
Tina Smith (22:11):
Yeah.
Another thing that that bringsto mind for me, seth, is when
you're saying, hey, I'm not afirst time purchase.
These bulk orders might not workor even be the best experience
for the customer.
A lot of people who are new tonatural products, supplements
and that sort of thing, they'renot sure if they really want to
(22:31):
try this product and whether ornot they'll fill a result from
it after using it, and so I'mthinking of ways that you could
sort of take down the risk forthat product or service.
And I do know a lot ofmanufacturers are like hey, if
you're not, if you don't feel adifference when you use this
product or supplement, or ifyou're not satisfied after a
(22:55):
certain period of time, bring itback to the store, we'll
replace it, like things likethat, where you're taking care
of the customer and reducingtheir risk helps them go ahead
and make the decision to givesomething to try, and if they do
enjoy it, that would be theopportunity.
And again, it's thispersonalized marketing and
messaging that comes into playwhen it's like hey, did you see
(23:16):
results from this product?
Did that work for you?
And if the answer is yes, thenokay, that might be the time to
start a subscription or a bulkorder.
Seth Spears (23:26):
Yeah, exactly, and you know the flip side of that
and I try to look at both sidesof every angle, you know, just
to kind of understand and playdevil's advocate.
We also see abuse in there aswell, where customers like
they'll try to make a return,like, oh, I didn't enjoy it.
Well, you use 95% of it.
So what are you talking about?
So it's a little bitdisingenuous, you know, and
there's bad apples, no matterwhat.
But also realizing, justbecause someone else is doing
(23:49):
something that is what I wouldconsider an ethical, that
doesn't mean that we need tochange our strategy because of
that, because we want to dowhat's right, no matter what.
Tina Smith (23:57):
Yeah, it's always that this happens with feedback
to.
We see, you know, one personcomplains about something and
then you try to changeeverything to match that person.
And the truth is that there arebad apples, there are people
that are difficult to deal with,but the majority of the people
that you're working with, if youcater to the people who are
(24:20):
great customers and people thatalign with your values and don't
do these nefarious activitiestrying to get money out of
returns, if you cater to themand just keep in mind that
that's the majority of thepeople that are going to be
coming in and out of your store,and keep that positive mindset,
I think that you know, yes,you're going to take some hits,
(24:42):
but they won't be toooverwhelming.
And that bad customer feedbacknow, if it's over and over again
, especially from your bestclients, it's something to pay
attention to.
But we don't have to payattention to every single bad
comment that comes our way.
Seth Spears (24:58):
Yeah, you know something that I feel like
happens a lot in the healthspace, especially the natural
health space in particular.
A lot of people get into itbecause they're trying to fix
their own issues, their ownallergies, food sensitivities
you know, maybe it's weight loss, who knows and so because of
that they think that everythingcan be an enemy.
You know, like, take gluten,for example.
(25:19):
You know gluten has been sojust made to be a villain in so
many ways.
But I think in health it's thebio individuality of each person
.
You know we're all so differentto our, our genetics, our, our
biology, all of these things,and so what is good for one
person isn't necessarily goodfor everyone else.
(25:40):
It rarely is actually so.
For example, I'm Italian, I dofine with gluten.
You know, like, I can eat wheatand grains and things all day
and no problem.
I don't just so great with cornand beans, you know, but for
someone from, say, a LatinAmerican culture, they do great
with those.
So you know, especially thosethat are in the natural health
(26:01):
space paleo, etc.
Keto they're gonna maligngluten and flour and wheat and
bread and things like this.
So but again, I think that's anexample of trying to make a
common enemy out of somethingthat we have to realize that
there's that individuality foreach one and also taking a stand
for what your brand is.
(26:21):
So, example if you, if youraudience is, has gluten
sensitivity or celiac orsomething, then yeah, you kind
of need to make gluten the enemybecause for that person and for
that audience it is, it is canbe definitely for them or make
them so sick.
So in that instance you need to.
I think where we get intotrouble is if we stop taking a
(26:43):
stand for anything and just likeoh anything goes, or this is
good, that's good, whatever, andthen you have no backbone, and
then your brand is so wishywashy that you don't.
You don't, don't amount toanything, you don't stand for
anything.
So I think that's important too.
Tina Smith (26:59):
Yeah, it just reminds me.
You know, looking deeper intothe science of any of these
gluten, keto, paleo, especiallynutrition we don't know as much
as we claim to know, especiallywhen it comes to the
individuality.
So one of the reasons I lovedoing what we do is because
(27:21):
there's a path to have morepersonalized conversations and a
consultative experience withthe people that you serve, and
this is all related to targetingsorry, segmenting your market
into different needs or casestudies, situations, use, cases
(27:42):
where they might need somethingdifferent than another segment
of your audience, and reallytaking a personalized approach
to how you're messaging.
So maybe there is a slice ofthe pie where you need to talk
about gluten as the enemy, butfor other people they might have
an entirely different issuethat they're dealing with, and
so no need to overwhelm themwith that information and really
(28:05):
work on serving them where theyare, as they come to you.
Seth Spears (28:10):
Yeah, I definitely agree, and I think this is where
AI gets really interesting,where we can analyze people's
needs and who they are based onjust that data, and maybe that's
genetic testing, maybe that'sunderstanding that bio
individuality.
And so, as opposed to justmaking a blanket claim, one of
my biggest pet peeves in thenatural health space, and
(28:32):
especially in the food industry,is labeling something a
superfood right.
So we've seen that in so manycases and I'll give you a
perfect example.
So coconut oil.
Coconut oil became all the rage, like in starting 2011, 2012,
something like that.
From a lot of the work thatI've done over the years,
especially on the wellness momside, that helped to contribute
(28:53):
to that.
You know, wellness mama rankednumber one for the organic term
coconut oil for seven years, Ithink, eight years maybe, so a
very long time.
We sold millions and millions ofdollars worth of coconut oil,
claiming it's a superfood.
And while it can be, is it asuperfood for every person?
The answer is no.
So if someone grew up like inthe Pacific Islands or something
(29:14):
we're used to, eating a lot ofthose types of healthy fats,
coconut oil, and such great forthem For someone that didn't,
someone that grew up, say inAlaska or, you know, in
different areas of the worldwhere they're not used to it.
That's not actually healthy forthem.
There's lots of examples ofpeople developing an allergy or
a sensitivity to it because ofoverconsumption, because their
genetics they didn't supportthat Like.
(29:34):
For me, I've never actuallyliked the smell of coconut oil
or even the taste so much, eventhough we cook with it for a
very long time.
I'm Italian.
Olive oil all day long, baby, Imean, I'll bathe in the stuff
you know.
So it's the bioindividuality ofeach person.
I think we need to take intoconsideration so much more and
stop saying that this is a, thatthere's a one size fits all in,
(29:57):
that it's a superfood orsuperproduct that everyone needs
, because the honest truth isthere's not a perfect thing for
every person, or like one thingthat is a perfect fit for
everyone, just because we areall so different.
And so I think calling that outand for companies that are
coming out with a product andstop trying to label it as the
greatest thing ever, becausethat leads to overconsumption
(30:18):
and, honestly, long termnegative effects.
Essential oils are another greatexample of this.
Essential oils became all therage.
It's like oh, you can use itfor this.
It'll cure cancer, you can eatit, you can drink it, you can do
this.
And it was like this newcategory.
And so the amount of plantsneeded to extract an oil are so
great.
We're losing a lot of those andit's causing widespread
(30:38):
destruction because they werenever meant to be utilized in
such such a concentratedcapacity.
And so, I think, differentindustries, they latch on, and
then there's trend followers.
You know, you have your trendsetters and trend followers.
People see a trend and thenthey want to go in and create a
business around that, and inorder for that to be viable long
term, you have to build thiscategory up even more so.
(31:00):
And then, but what are the longterm effects of that?
What are the second ordereffects of that growth?
And I think that's where we'renot paying attention enough to
see what potential destructionthat could have.
Tina Smith (31:14):
Yeah, that brings us back to.
I think you know some peopleare in it for the money, but if
you really are in this becauseyou're passionate about the
health of people and where thiscan make a difference, it's so
important to get to know whoyou're talking to and to make
sure it's not the wrong peoplethat you're trying to serve.
You can call that out on yourwebsite and then your social
(31:35):
media as well.
I think this is part of thattaking a stand for what you
believe, because if you believethat your product can help
people and it's shown results todo that, or a product that you
carry in your store, thendefinitely promote it, but
figure out who it's best for andlet people know if it's not for
(31:57):
them, because I really thinkthis next generation of people
that are looking for naturalproducts are looking for
transparency and people thatthey can believe in, and that's
one way to outcompete theAmazon's of the world, because
they are not going to be able todo that.
Customer reviews might behelpful with that, but there's
(32:19):
not a consultant on Amazon rightnow.
Ai might get us thereeventually, but there's not a
consultant on Amazon right now.
That's going to help you findthe right magnesium if you need
a magnesium supplement, or letyou know that, hey, you should
test your magnesium levels andthen dose to get to a certain
result.
But we know that people in thisindustry, especially the
(32:42):
smaller companies, are nimbleenough to be able to do this and
to have conversations with ourcustomers, and if you really
believe in people's well-being,then finding out more about your
customer is exactly the routeto go, I think.
Tell me more about wild gearand the growth that you've put
(33:03):
into that.
What are some tactics thatyou're using to promote your
wild gear company?
Seth Spears (33:09):
Yeah, so for real wild gear and full transparency.
It is definitely the fun sideproject that we have not reached
profitability yet, so I amstill learning and going into a
new industry can be a challenge,and there were some strategic
errors that I made whenlaunching the company.
For example, the way thatWellNest grew.
We already had a built-inaudience from what we had done
(33:31):
on the Wellness On the Site andthen leveraging connections and
other people in the space thatcould help promote and grow With
free wild gear.
This was a passion projectwhere I wanted to create the
highest quality gear for theoutdoor space and really to
scratch my own itch.
So the history for the companywas my three brothers and I were
sitting around a campfire,drinking bourbon and comparing
knives and we grew up inKentucky and loved camping and
(33:53):
hunting and backpacking and justspending time in nature and
we're all gear heads.
We always want the best qualityover quantity, but we always
purchased lots of different onesto test out and see what we
liked and try to find theperfect knife.
So we're sitting around thiscampfire and just comparing
knives and started theconversation of what would the
perfect knife look like?
If you were going to create it.
(34:14):
What would you do differently?
The ones you have or the onesyou tested out and so we started
just sketching out ideas.
So that was over 10 years agonow, and then, when COVID came
around, I had the realizationthat one of the things, with all
the lockdowns, that peoplecould still do was get into
nature and go camping and spendmore time.
So it's a perfect time tolaunch a company.
(34:34):
However, what I didn't take intoconsideration was the fact that
it's a lot easier to buildsomething and grow something if
you already have an audience tosell to and finding out what
they want.
So for Wild Nests, we hadfeedback and examples that
people they wanted a naturaltoothpaste that worked really
well, that the tutorials andrecipes that we had over on Wild
(34:56):
Nests, hollandcom, that peoplecould test out and make
themselves, but they got tiredof making it themselves and
wanted us just to sell it.
So I didn't do that samestrategy for wild gear.
So that's definitely been alearning experience, and so
that's something that we'rereally leaning into is how can
we build more community?
How can we engage people thatare already in the outdoor space
and that are looking for thesetypes of products?
(35:18):
So, for example, we make knivesand fire starters and
backpacking, grills and campingutensils, and so there's and
that's also across severaldifferent sub genres of the
outdoor space.
You know you've got hunting,you've got bushcraft, you've got
survival, you've got hiking,you've got camping.
So they're all generally subsub niches within the greater
outdoor space, and so I'velearned a lot.
(35:40):
Unfortunately, most of mygreatest learnings have been
what not to do.
I think that's a lot of people.
So you know we're stilllearning and growing and going
from there.
Tina Smith (35:54):
That's so interesting to hear, because
obviously you had a lot ofsuccess with wellness and
wellness, mama, and thenlaunching out to do a new thing.
It just reminds me that pastsuccess does not indicate future
success and that you reallyhave to be aware of what you're
launching into you.
And a lot of the things that wefind very successful for
(36:16):
product manufacturers and forindependent retailers alike is
this network building thiscommunity first, and a network
of people who are referring inand out of your store or for
your products.
And I think it just goes backto prove nature's done it best
(36:37):
Always.
If we think about fungalnetworks and the soil and how
they communicate to each other,hey, I need this resource, and
then an impulse goes out andpulls the resource or finds it.
You know, and I think we needthe same thing in the business
community.
You need a community of peoplein your industry.
You need a community of people,like you were talking about,
who are not in your industry, sothey can bring the new ideas to
(36:58):
the table and help you finddifferent ways of doing things,
so you don't look just like theother guy.
And then you need the communitythat you're developing with
your customers and reallylistening, doing a lot of that
customer, listening for thosesignals of what people want,
versus just necessarilyscratching your own itch.
(37:19):
Scratching a niche is a greatplace to start, by the way, but
it doesn't tell you everythingabout all types of people who
might need or want to buy yourproduct, pricing the type of
gear that they want, that kindof thing.
So, that's a lesson for everyone, I think.
Seth Spears (37:37):
Yeah, I agree, and I love the example of the
Mycelio networks because thoseare absolutely fascinating and
like how they grow and work andhow similar they are to the
brain as well as far as thoseneural pathways and such.
But yeah, you do bring up areally good point about having
those different types ofcommunities that you can learn
from and pass on.
With WellNess there was a painpoint.
You know people that they soour best selling product is our
(38:01):
whitening toothpaste, so we havethe best ingredients around.
One of our differentiatingfactors is we use our active
ingredients calledhydroxyapatite, which is a
naturally occurring mineral thatwe get from some mines in
France.
So we use a microhydroxyapatite, which is the smallest particle
that is naturally available.
Our competitors, who also usehydroxyapatite, they use nano,
(38:24):
and so that is not a naturalparticle and we want to be as
natural as possible, and sothat's why we chose what we use,
and there's different theorieson which works better.
All the studies that I've seen,micro is just as effective as
nano.
So we also don't use glycerinor fluoride or any of the other
crap that a lot of the othersuse.
So we're able to differentiatebased on that, and there has
(38:45):
been a pain point that customershave had, trying to find
natural products that actuallywork.
Because, unfortunately, thepersonal care products that
we've gone into no matter hownaturally oriented someone is,
what's either eating organic andyou know they've switched out
or they're purchasing theproducts that a lot of people
often wouldn't switch would betoothpaste, shampoo and
(39:05):
conditioner and deodorant,because those are those personal
care products that you want tolook good, you want to smell
good, you want things to justwork.
But the natural side often theywere not as effective as some
of those conventional ones.
So our goal was to createproducts that were more
effective than the conventionalalternatives, and so there was a
(39:27):
pain point that we could speakto.
So for Rewild Gear because thiswas scratching our own itch
there wasn't a pain point thatwe were solving.
It was more I'm a gear guy, Ilove camping gear and just
having the best and just findingwhat works for me.
But often it's so individual,based on where you're having
(39:49):
your outdoor adventures, at thetype of gear that you need,
based on that.
So it wasn't necessarily a painpoint like the personal care
side was, and so that'ssomething else to take into
consideration when you'restarting a company or when
you're looking at thepositioning and your brand
messaging Where's the pain thatsomeone has and how can you
solve for that?
(40:09):
So that's been a big lesson forme as well.
And then someone how can wefind those pain points that
someone might be in and use someof those psychological triggers
for our own marketing andmessaging?
Tina Smith (40:21):
Yeah, 100%.
We talk about that all the time.
If you're not solving a problem, then you're going to have a
problem from your business.
So definitely find the painpoint and I love that you just
talked about those personal careproducts.
My friends and I were justtalking the other day like have
you found a natural deodorantyet that works?
(40:42):
So we might be coming to yoursite to take a look.
Seth Spears (40:46):
Well, yes, natural deodorant works pretty darn well
.
Tina Smith (40:49):
All right.
Well, I might be giving thoseaway for Christmas to people
just to see and have everyonetry that out, but since it does
work, this is the perfect timefor us to promote like hey, give
it a try, because that'sdefinitely a pain point that I
and my friends have been tryingto solve, and I'm sure there's a
few other people out there.
Seth Spears (41:10):
Great.
Tina Smith (41:12):
Well, I thank you so much, seth, for your time.
We're sort of reaching the endof our time together, but we
typically go through a list ofquestions that we ask every
guest at the end of the show,and I appreciate all of your
wisdom, and now we can just wrapthis up with a few questions
that we ask everyone, if that'sall right with you.
Seth Spears (41:31):
Yeah, let's go.
Tina Smith (41:32):
All right.
So to keep up and be ready forwhat's next in this industry, as
you're working on wellness,what are you reading, who do you
follow and what types ofcontent are you consuming?
Thank you.
Seth Spears (41:49):
I'm an avid podcast listener and so most of the
podcasts that I consume thereare a lot around personal
development, around business,around marketing in big picture
strategy and thinking.
So if you're familiar with theentrepreneur operating system, I
am definitely the visionary andnot necessarily the integrator.
That's why I enjoy partneringwith others who can handle that
(42:09):
integration side.
So I listen to a lot of things.
That helps spark my creativityso that I can think of new
product ideas, new ways tomarket.
So a lot of things around that.
Within the natural health spaceI do a lot of networking and go
to a lot of different eventswhere I'm saying on top of
things that are going on.
So that's more in-person andnot so much content consumption
(42:30):
there, more in-person contentthan virtual, whether that's
blogs or podcasts or books orthings.
But I just try to keep my thumbon the pulse of everything
that's going on within the space.
Tina Smith (42:42):
Yeah, and you mentioned EOS, which I don't
know if all of our listeners arefamiliar with it or not, but we
are having a guest on thepodcast later next year who's
going to talk about implementingEOS in a natural product store.
So stay tuned for that, becausewe love that operating system.
It's super at helping you stayefficient and running well as a
(43:05):
company.
Seth Spears (43:06):
Yeah, great.
Tina Smith (43:07):
What do you think most people in the natural
products industry wish theycould change about marketing
natural products?
Seth Spears (43:15):
Customer acquisition, I believe, has been
the challenge.
There's so many copycats in theindustry, where people that are
just following trends and theysee that a new product has come
to prominence and so they see anopportunity, so they're just
rushing to create it or whitelabeling something.
(43:36):
So I think it depends on thecompany and what their focus is
and what they're doing.
For those that are reallyauthentic in doing creating
something that's new andinnovative and really solving a
problem within the industry, Ithink getting a clear message
across and being very clear andfocused on that, and just
(43:57):
customer acquisition that isprofitable, because often you're
taking a loss on the first timeand then, if the products are
great, that can work, because onthe back end you're going to
get repeat buyers, depending onwhat the product is and it's
consumable and things like that.
Yeah, so I think I would saythat customer acquisition and
(44:17):
whether that's figuring out paidads or organic traffic or
affiliates or influencers, justhaving a clear path forward with
that, because it's all changingso rapidly.
Tina Smith (44:29):
Yeah, and we talk a lot about understanding your
customer lifetime value, likeyou were talking about.
Is this a consumable product?
Are people coming back againand again, so, and how much are
they spending every time and howlong do they stay?
So kind of calculating thatcustomer lifetime value so that
you know how much you can investon the front end, because you
(44:49):
are likely to lose a little biton that first purchase, or
you're going to at least reduceyour margin, but you want to
know how much makes sense foryou to do that, based on how
long are they going to stay, howmuch are they going to spend,
or does that margin look likeover time?
Seth Spears (45:07):
Yeah, exactly.
Tina Smith (45:08):
So what's the single biggest decision you feel like
has led to your success in thisindustry?
Seth Spears (45:13):
My formula for success has always been do the
right things long enough,consistently.
There's some caveats there.
What are the right things?
How long is long enough, andwhat does it mean to be
consistent?
If you can answer thosequestions for you and for your
business, I think that's wheresuccess happens.
(45:33):
And the other thing that I'vepaid attention to and realized
within that framework is that ifyou can figure out what your
skill set is, so what you'renaturally going to, what you
enjoy and where there's a needin the market, then that's where
the magic lies.
So it's a combination of yourskill set, what you enjoy where
(45:56):
they're in the market, and thendoing the right things long
enough consistently to meetthose needs.
Tina Smith (46:02):
Yeah, and usually doing those right things is
exponential.
So sometimes you don't evenrealize when you're almost there
, and then there's a tippingpoint and then everything sort
of comes together.
Seth Spears (46:14):
So yeah it's easy to see that tipping point.
It's easy to see that tippingpoint in hindsight, but when
you're in it it's a lot hardertoo.
Tina Smith (46:23):
So therein lies the challenge.
Yeah, 100% agree.
What do you think is thebiggest challenge for this
industry in the next three tofive years?
Seth Spears (46:33):
For companies that are just getting started,
competition is really fierce andwe're seeing so much
copycatting going on.
Amazon is obviously huge.
They're the 100-pound gorillain the room and anytime a new
product is created or a companystarts something and they sell
on Amazon, Amazon has all thatdata and then they're going in
(46:55):
and creating something verysimilar Now the Amazon brand.
People will sometimes justpurchase that because it's
cheaper, it's whatever, but tome that's a commodification and
I don't ever want to compete ona commodity.
I want to differentiate withwhat I'm doing so that customers
(47:16):
will continue to come back andpurchase from me.
So I think that's where brandbuilding is so important.
People do business with thosethat they know, like and trust,
and so if you can differentiateyourself and create a brand, a
message, a story that resonatesso much, that that's how you
continue to get customers.
So it's always interesting to mewhen companies they want to
(47:37):
create something specificallyfor Amazon because they see
that's where the biggestpotential is in the market and
yeah, well, that's true.
I think long term they're doingthemselves a disservice.
And so because a brand isnothing more, it's a promise,
it's the look, the feel, thetaste, the smell, everything
that is who you are as anorganization, and so if you can
(47:57):
lead with those things, and evenif you're selling on Amazon or
other marketplaces, that's fine,but bring them back into the
fold, into your community, intoyour website whether that
Shopify or WooCom or Sumit,Dento or whatever so that you
can get their information andcontinue to market to them, to
provide value and to show themwhy you're different than
everyone else.
Tina Smith (48:17):
Yeah, and I think that's definitely a trend that
we're seeing, especially withyounger buyers, that they want
to know who is making thisproduct, that it's a real person
, and so I think that's a clearway to have a competitive
advantage in this digital space,especially when you're
competing with bigger companieslike Amazon.
Seth Spears (48:37):
Yeah, it's interesting.
What I see a lot of peopledoing is they'll see a product
and they'll instantly go toAmazon to buy it.
For me, I do the opposite.
If it's a company, I go totheir website.
I want to know who they are,what they're about, what their
ingredient quality is, and allof that.
And this came to fruition evenmore during COVID, because, with
the supply chain issues and notbeing able to find products or
get them anything that wasn'tconsidered essential or they
(48:59):
were going up to a high endprice, I would go directly to a
company's website becauseusually the shipping was quicker
I mean because there was nolonger the two-day shipping for
prime numbers, and so that kindof lost the advantage and then I
was usually getting a betterprice.
I was having a directrelationship with that company
and then I could track mypurchases and everything better,
and so I just enjoyed doingthat more and I could also see
(49:20):
what they're doing for theirmarketing, which I like.
Tina Smith (49:22):
Yeah, so I think that's a big trend as well.
So what do you think that morepeople in this industry should
try when it comes to marketing?
Seth Spears (49:34):
I think they should look at things that aren't
being done Instead of lookingwhat others are doing and trying
to follow suit.
Ask the question how can I dothe opposite, how can I
differentiate from everyone elseout there to set myself apart
so that I'm seen as, in thewords of Seth Godin, a purple
cow?
How can I be so different,whether that's my product
(49:55):
quality, my marketing, et cetera?
But I think differentiation isthe key 100% Low hanging fruit.
Tina Smith (50:04):
what things do you think would give most people,
the natural products industry,the biggest win, or the quickest
win in building their business?
Seth Spears (50:13):
Start with family and friends who already know you
, like you and trust you.
Hopefully, give out samples,let them try it, let them be
your evangelist people thatalready have an incentive to
help you because they're friends, they're family and they want
to, and let it grow organicallyfrom there.
So do pay dads you can still doorganic and social, and I think
(50:35):
you should but find thosepeople who would be incentivized
just because of who you are andlet them help you and be your
ambassadors and your evangelistsso that it can spread by relief
from there.
Tina Smith (50:47):
So, even if they're not starting a new product, I
100% agree Find your bestcustomers who have built
relationship with you over yearsand let them help you market
this, because they will.
There are referral things thatyou can put out there incentives
, trials, tests that you canfloat with them, and that is an
(51:08):
organic way to build yourbusiness, and people trust
people they know.
So if they're and also ifyou're talking to your best
customers, then they're going tobring people like them to you.
So it starts to build thiswhole momentum around a type of
customer that you serve verywell.
I love that.
(51:28):
Yes, I agree.
So if people want to follow upwith you, pick your brain about
marketing natural products orjust want to buy some of your
products, where should they goto visit you?
Seth Spears (51:40):
Yeah, great question, Thank you.
So a couple places you can goto wellnesscom W-E-L-L-N-E-S-S-E
so wellness with an E on theend is my brand of organic
personal care products,Rewildgearcom R-E-W-I-L-D
Rewildgear so that's my websitefor my outdoor equipment company
.
I'm pretty active on Instagram,so at Spears Marketing there,
(52:05):
and I do a lot on LinkedIn aswell, so you can just look for
Seth Spears on LinkedIn and youcan just click on the link there
as well.
Tina Smith (52:12):
Awesome Well, seth, it's been such a pleasure having
you Such nuggets of wisdom fornatural products producers or
retailers, I think, and whatthey can do with marketing and
building relationships andstanding out in the crowded
marketplace.
So I really appreciate yourtime and that you are willing to
join us on the podcast today.
Thanks so much for listening tothe Natural Products Marketer
(52:35):
Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful and show
notes for any of those valuableresources that we mentioned on
today's episode and, before yougo, we would love for you to
give us a review, follow, likeand subscribe on Apple Podcasts,
spotify, youtube or whereveryou're listening today, and make
sure you join us for our nextepisode, where we give you more
(52:55):
marketing tips so that you canreach more people and change
more lives.
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