March 13, 2024 • 38 mins
We've covered one year of interviews with the top marketing and business experts in and out of the Natural Products Industry.
From Ryan Sensenbrenner to Peter Murane, we've been armed with tales of disruptive branding and innovative differentiation to work within any budget. This episode isn't just a trip down memory lane; it's a treasure trove of actionable insights that have shaped our approach to helping industry retailers and manufacturers thrive.
And that's not all! We also have teasers for season 2. We and our audience have questions, so we're finding experts to interview to get answers. From compliance to retailers who are winning in diverse circumstances, our guests will equip you with the strategies to build a better business so you can reach more people and change more lives.
Connect with us:
Email: info@naturalproductsmarketer.com
About Amanda Ballard
Amanda has worked in natural products marketing in the retail setting since 2016 and has a great understanding of the unique challenges and opportunities that retailers in this industry face. More than anything, she wants this industry to continue to boom and believes much of that success hinges on the ability of retailers to do well in their businesses and market their products effectively.
About Tina Smith
Since 2014, Tina has worked with multiple natural products businesses, discovering how to market their CBD products online, without having their payment processor shut them down, to letting customers talk about their health issues those products have helped them solve. She knows first hand how experts like you offer the best products and a superior customer experience, that is why she is committed to helping you find an easy way to grow your natural product business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tina Smith (00:00):
I was just thinking about, like, what might be
coming up next.
So, look, we could talk fordays probably about all of these
interviews, because there wereso many hours that we put into
them, talked to these people,had before and after with them,
and then we relistened to allthe episodes.
(00:21):
But I am so excited aboutwhat's coming next season.
Welcome to the Natural ProductsMarketer Podcast.
Amanda Ballard (00:32):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
Tina Smith (00:44):
Hi, amanda.
Hey, we are here to talk aboutseason one of the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast, and Iwas just thinking about it
because I got a notice inJanuary that it was time for our
one year renewal of the domainnaturalproductsmarketercom.
(01:06):
So do you remember over a yearago when I reached out to you
and said hey, I have a crazyidea.
Amanda Ballard (01:13):
I do.
I actually remember where I was.
I was like in a Starbucksparking lot, had just picked up
a drink and get this message.
It was like do you want to hearmy crazy idea?
I was like, absolutely I do.
And the rest was just great.
Tina Smith (01:30):
That is not the last time I sent you a message like
that.
Amanda Ballard (01:32):
No, it seems to be a weekly occurrence lately.
Tina Smith (01:37):
Yeah, do you want to hear this crazy idea?
And you always say yes, whichis so encouraging to me.
Amanda Ballard (01:43):
Maybe you're not so crazy.
Tina Smith (01:46):
No, I'm definitely crazy, and there have been just
so the listeners understandthere are times when Amanda has
been like, yeah, no, that is nothappening or it's not happening
right now, but I do have a lotof ideas around helping natural
products retailers win and grow.
It's a huge passion for me andI think it's all started with
(02:11):
because I have the end customerin mind.
Like they deserve to havepeople like you in their lives,
and so I want to help them findyou.
I want to help people find theresources that they need in
order to take care of their ownhealth and wellness, and it's
(02:31):
been a passion for a very longtime.
But a year ago I was like, hey,do you want to help me make a
bigger impact on the naturalproducts retailers?
And you were like, yeah, I'm in.
Amanda Ballard (02:44):
Yeah, no, it's been super fun and just
reflecting on the past year ofall the work that we did to
prepare for the podcast andfinally launching it it's been
the way that I view it and Iwould say that you would feel
the same is I've gotten way moreout of just doing this show
(03:06):
than I have put into it, andthere's a lot of stuff that goes
into every single episode.
But, man, I just feel like I'vejust been so blessed by all of
the interviews that we've hadjust our conversations and I
view it almost as my continuingeducation.
It's like there's so manythings that I could do to
(03:27):
further my knowledge inmarketing, but I'm like I get to
do this just for fun and helppeople along the way, so it's
been a joy to be on this journeytogether.
Tina Smith (03:39):
Yeah, no kidding.
I mean, I just think about allof these wonderful resources
that we've been able tointerview, both in the industry
and out of it.
It's stuff I wanna know as muchas I want retailers and other
people, manufacturers in theindustry to know.
It's things that I'm askingquestions about too, or that our
(04:02):
clients are asking questionsabout.
So it's so wonderful to be ableto spend time with these people
picking their brains and itdoesn't seem to be a huge ask
for them and they teach us allkinds of things.
And then, after the episodes,I'm always really excited
because I'm like oh, we can takethis back to the people we're
(04:24):
working with and we can do allthese new things or try and
experiment, because I think thisinformation it just sort of
unlocks a piece of somethingthat we've been chewing over
maybe for a long time.
So it's been so helpful for ourclients as well.
Amanda Ballard (04:43):
Yeah, so I know we wanted to spend the bulk of
today's episode just talkingabout things we've learned from
our guests in our interviewswith them and things that maybe
will pique our listeners'interest to maybe go back and
listen to some of these episodesthat they might have missed.
So let's dive into that.
Tina Smith (05:03):
Yeah.
So just to start with, I'll saywe're on episode 22 now, I
think, and I didn't even realizethat we had done so many and,
as we were saying, okay, let'sgo back and review it.
Listening to all the episodesover again, I was like wow, that
is a lot of content that we'vecovered.
And yet there were some themesthat came up over and over again
(05:26):
.
One of them that just comes tomind was echoed from Ryan
Simpson-Brinner, chris Sorenson,billy Jones, seth Spears, peter
Moraine, that we have to bemarketing on our differentiators
.
We have to talk about whatmakes this different than other
(05:49):
retailers or other people in ourindustry, and we probably don't
do that enough.
A lot of times.
It's this consultative approachand people aren't talking about
it in the marketing as much asthey probably should.
Amanda Ballard (06:03):
Yeah, I made a note of something that Peter
Moraine said on his episode.
He said that the smaller yourbudget, the more disruptive your
brand needs to be, and I waslike that is just a golden
nugget that I think all of ourlisteners because I think no
matter the size of your businessand a lot of our friends in
(06:25):
this space are operating onsmaller budgets you can be
disruptive with little money andeven when you start to increase
your revenue and all of thatit's so.
I feel like it's really hard tobe like I'm gonna spend all
this money on marketing, eventhough I know I should, but it's
(06:46):
like you don't have to spend aton.
I mean, there's definitelyrecommendations of what you
should spend, but I think itgave me hope of you can still do
a lot with little resources.
Tina Smith (07:00):
Yeah, which reminds me of something in Ryan Simpson
Brenner's interview, which wasall about lowering the volume or
the amount of choices that youhave, bulking up the volume of
the few lines that you spendmoney with so that you can
capitalize on the number ofhuman resources that you have.
(07:21):
So small resources, whether itbe in budget for marketing, or
smaller resources with people,because it's tough to find good
people to work in retail thesedays, and that just makes you
more creative.
So what are some of the waysthat you can sort of work your
way or get creative outside ofthat and I think all of our
(07:43):
podcast interviewees hadsomething to say- about that.
Amanda Ballard (07:47):
Yeah, I think that reminds me of I know Chase
Ballard talked about this aswell as Chris Sorenson.
You're talking about utilizingour human resources wisely.
They both talked aboutmerchandising and product
selection, and I think Ryan eventalked about this too.
(08:08):
You don't need to have more.
More does not equal better.
So choosing just a few productsthat you really believe in,
having this good, better, bestmentality when you're making
these purchasing decisions andwhen you only have five options
for vitamin C as opposed to 20because there's more than 20 out
(08:31):
there it's like it makes yourstaff's job easier to
merchandise them.
It makes it easier for thecustomer to decide what do I
pick?
Well, there's five choicesinstead of 20.
So it creates a path of justless resistance on multiple
fronts when you kind of justpair things down.
Tina Smith (08:52):
Yeah, and that just reminds me of our interview with
Billy Jones when he's talkingabout okay, then who do you
partner with?
If you only have fivemanufacturers that you're
working with around vitamin C,who do you partner with?
And Billy's not the only onethat talked about this, but
(09:13):
finding those manufacturers thatare protecting the independent
retailers is so important Ifthey're enforcing map policy,
which I know is difficult we'vetalked about this with vendors
and how do you do this and it'svery difficult to do but people
do dedicate resources to makethat happen if they're in the
(09:33):
business of furthering theindependent retailers in this
industry.
So I think that's one key isfinding people that help protect
this channel so that you candeliver the best customer
experience and also finding thebest products.
So Dr Gregor, who wrote how Notto Die and how Not to Diet, has
(09:56):
come out with a new book calledhow Not to Age, and he sits and
talks in the introduction tothis book.
He says there's no guaranteethat a supplement bottle even
contains what's listed on itslabel.
In one study, only two out of12 supplement companies were
(10:16):
found to have products that werelabeled accurately, and the New
York State Attorney Generalcommissioned DNA testing of 78
bottles of commercial herbalsupplements sold by GNC, walmart
and Target, and four out offive bottles didn't contain any
(10:36):
of the herbs listed on theirlabels Crazy.
So you know that independentretailers are not carrying those
brands.
Those are the same brands thatyou find on Amazon.
This is a point ofdifferentiation and finding the
manufacturers that actually havetheir products tested, they
stand by good manufacturingpractices, they do not have
(11:00):
fillers in their product andthey have what it says on the
label.
That's another way that, firstof all, you're protecting the
consumer, like Deborah Shorttalked about, like we are the
gatekeepers, and you are alsoprotecting yourself from claims
like this.
That just shouldn't be.
(11:20):
This is not how it should be inthis industry.
Amanda Ballard (11:23):
Yeah, and I think you mentioned Deborah and
I was going to do the same thing.
Trade shows like Soho Expo area fantastic place for people to
find these brands that supportthe independent retailer,
because that whole association,senpa, is designed to protect
(11:43):
the independent natural productsretailer, and so supporting
shows like Soho Expo, sohoHealth Fest and being a part of
that, I think, is just oneadditional way that we can
filter through all the crapthat's out there, because the
brands that show up to showslike that they really do care
(12:04):
and the vast majority of themare doing things the right way.
Tina Smith (12:08):
Yeah, and we know they care because it's a big
investment to show up at showslike that, so they are investing
in the independent retailerchannel and because there's a
lot of training that goes on atthose shows, including hey,
here's a way to grow yourbusiness.
I know Ed Jones was one of thepresenters at last year's Soho
(12:32):
Expo, did a brilliant job justtalking through different ways
that he markets the business,different partners that he has
in the industry, so that theyare really the health and
wellness hub of Chattanooga, andhe was completely open book and
transparent in his presentationabout the tactics that he uses.
(12:55):
I don't know where else youfind that kind of training, and
putting on an event like thatrequires people to invest in
booths and sponsorships andeverything, and so the
manufacturers that are investingin that show are manufacturers
that care about the retailers,getting them the right training
and protecting that channel.
Amanda Ballard (13:18):
Yeah, and I think it's really easy to
overlook the independencebecause they definitely are
shrinking in size.
But our conversations aboutthese trade shows is making me
think of our interview with MikeMaddock and how his whole
interview.
He talked about how this Davidand Goliath story and how
(13:42):
oftentimes Goliath is afraid ofDavid and I think we get that
wrong as independent retailersand maybe smaller natural
products businesses where we'reso afraid of these big box
retailers.
And the fact of the matter iswe don't have to be, and I was
so encouraged listening to hisepisode and I came away with it
(14:05):
with so much hope that themobility that these smaller
retailers have is so far beyondwhat these big corporate giants
will even let you consider doing.
You have no freedom when youwork for a corporation like
Target to build a display theway you want it.
(14:26):
It's like no, it has to bebuilt this way.
It's like where's the fun inthat?
Tina Smith (14:32):
Yeah, no kidding.
I mean Chris Sorenson talkedabout merchandising and how you
could get so creative with it.
So if you have not listened tothat episode and you've got some
crazy ideas you'd like toimplement, highly recommend it.
And to go back to Mike Maddockfor a minute, he is the just
agreed that he is the Senpa SohoExpo keynote speaker in
(14:57):
September, so it's very excitingthat he's going to be there.
If anyone wants to register forthat event to come see him
speak, of course, listen to theepisode.
One of the best little quotes orthings that I took from his
episode was the use of the voiceof the customer versus talking
(15:19):
about the benefit load.
So he was talking about how wealways talk about, hey, vitamin
D or vitamin C or whatever it is, does this and this and this
and this.
And what we know is true.
We found that with retailersthat we're working with and
since Sembraner talked about itin his episode as well is when
(15:40):
you start talking about usecases is when you really start
to sell more product, becauseyou are speaking to the exact
pain that the customer isfeeling and the only way that
you know what problem thatproduct or you personally are
solving is if you are listeningto what they're saying and using
their words.
(16:00):
So I think one of the thingsthat Mike talked about is, when
he's looking at supplements andvitamins, that people are saying
all this stuff likebioavailability and big words
that he's like what does thiseven mean?
And when we talk about it, welike to say things like hey,
your body can absorb this much,instead of using words like
bioavailability, because it'sjust easier for the consumer to
(16:23):
understand and those are wordsthat they use anyway.
So just recognizing changinglanguage can help you sell more
product.
And talking about specific usecases, like I have heartburn
today, is there something thatcan help me speak to people
about their actual problem, andit does help you sell more
(16:43):
product while you're solving anactual problem for someone Right
.
Amanda Ballard (16:48):
And that's pretty much what John Jance was
talking about in our interviewwith him too about the customer
journey and really having yourcustomers know you and trust you
, and if you're speaking alanguage that's so above their
comprehension, it's hard tobuild that trust.
Tina Smith (17:07):
Yeah, 100%.
So talking to them, doingcustomer interviews look, you
know I talk about this all thetime Google reviews, customer
interviews.
Google reviews, customerinterviews.
You always ask like what's oneway that people can change their
marketing today or make abigger impact with their
marketing today?
And I always go back to talk toyour customers.
(17:28):
Look at Google reviews, pullmore Google reviews in.
It helps organic traffic, butit's also just.
It gives you so much marketingfodder that you can use to have
a whole plan.
Just talk to five or 10customers.
You get a whole plan for therest of the year as to the
topics that you need to cover,the language that you should use
(17:49):
when you're talking aboutissues and the way that you
serve people, because it'sdifferent than going on Amazon
or walking into Target where noone's going to help you find
what you need.
And so talking to customers ishuge.
Amanda Ballard (18:04):
Yeah, and I think you reminded me of our
conversation with Katie Colemanat Nutrition World, and I know
we already talked about them alittle bit.
But one thing and partiallybecause I was there when a lot
of this was happening but whenshe started her family, I think
it ignited a passion forproviding options for new moms,
(18:27):
young families, young childrenthat we didn't have before, and
it's in developing thatcommunity something that John
talked about so much of thepower of community.
We were hearing things like ohman, I wish we had a good baby
formula option, or how do I knowwhat vitamins are safe for my
(18:49):
infants, and things of thatnature, and I think she really
took a hold of that andimplemented that in a way that I
just thought was brilliant, tothe point where I hadn't been to
that store in several years andI went back and visited and I
was like you can tell that theirdemographic has changed because
of building this community withyoung families in that city and
(19:14):
bringing them products that aremeaningful to them in that
season of life.
Tina Smith (19:19):
Yeah, which reminds me of.
I loved Katie's interview shetalked so much about mothers,
intuition, female intuition andtrusting yourself and that
there's this gap that's happenedover the years.
We're used to we would trustour guts when it came to
(19:40):
treating minor illnesses for ourkids and even for ourselves,
and that we have lost that senseof trust.
Maybe it's because we don'tlisten to ourselves as much.
But I've been listening toother health and wellness
podcasts and when I heard thisparenting podcast recently that
talked about one of the easiestways to make your child full
(20:04):
heard and to make them aconfident adult is to say to
them I trust you, I believe youand I hear what you're saying
and I believe you.
And it made me think of thiswomen's health experience,
because there's such a dearth ofinformation around, like
hormone balancing or a lot ofdifferent like age appropriate
(20:27):
things from the medicalcommunity, as women's health
changes in life.
And it's because when we've goneto the doctor and this has come
up with, you know, like heartconditions and emergency rooms,
that women have heart attacksand they are less likely to live
through that because the healthproviders don't believe they're
(20:48):
actually having a heart attack,because it happens to us
younger it looks different thanmen.
There haven't been a lot ofmedical studies around all of
our health needs and especiallywhen it comes to hormones and,
as we're aging, those things arejust like well, maybe you've
got a mental health issue versusthere's something actually
going on in your physical bodythat is also causing this and we
(21:11):
haven't been told enough.
I believe you, but this ishappening in your body and so we
don't even trust ourselvesanymore, and I love that Katie
has decided and been verypassionate about.
I believe you that when momscome into the store and when
women come into the store, shebelieves what they're saying.
(21:32):
Their medical and healthexperience has been, and then
she's helping them provide anavenue to treat that and I think
some big learning for all theretailers and manufacturers out
there that for a long time, wewomen have been not believed
about our own health, eventhough we know our body is
better than anyone else, and Ithink a lot of different
(21:54):
providers can take hold of thatand put into the world.
Hey, we believe you and we'vegot things that can help you
manage this thing that's goingon in the body.
Amanda Ballard (22:05):
Yeah, and when you're saying trusting within
yourself to believe these things, it reminded me of our
interview with Terry Hoffman,and her whole thing is trusting
your gut as a business owner,and whether it's deciding to
bring a new product or serviceto market, you can have all the
data in the world.
(22:26):
But at the end of the day, ifit doesn't sit right in your gut
and your spirit that it's likeyou know your business better
than anybody else and so even ifall of the going back to
Katie's example if all of thedata is like, oh no, you don't
need to pursue that side of theindustry, maybe there's not a
(22:46):
lot of money in that or whateverit's like, but if you know I
can make this work, at the endof the day, that's really all
that matters if you believe it,because at the end of the day,
you know data changes.
Tina Smith (23:02):
Well, and I left Terry's interview that she
worked with PNG and these largecorporations and they got it
wrong by just looking at thedata.
So it's not.
I love data and it is not theonly thing to look at.
There's an experience thatyou've had.
Data gives you direction andthen you can interpret what that
(23:25):
means because you are listeningto the customer, and that's it
brings us back to the micmaticinterview, which was hey, these
big companies are afraid of youbecause you are on the ground in
the stores every day talking tocustomers.
They're giving you feedback, sothat when you see the data, you
actually know what it means.
They don't, because they're sofar removed from working with
(23:47):
the customer every day.
And even if it's Amazon thatjust has an online transaction,
online is not the same thing asthe one to one interactions that
you're having in your storeevery day.
So I think that should giveeveryone a lot of hope that
first, you're not competing withthe Amazons of the world
because you're doing somethingentirely different, but also, if
(24:09):
you were, you can win becauseyou have a different thing to
offer than Amazon or any ofthose big corporations.
Amanda Ballard (24:17):
Yeah and I think you know Chase said this so
well is that he said peopledon't come to your business for
your products, they come for you, and I think that there isn't a
truer statement out there, whenit comes to natural products
retailers, that the people arewhy they are so successful, and
(24:37):
we hear that all the time.
It's our you know consultativeapproach to, to healthcare, to
supplementation everything'scustom and tailored to you.
You can't get that through AI.
Tina Smith (24:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that kind of brings me tofiguring out problems that are
happening in your store,listening to the voice of the
customer as to what those mightbe, whether it be their
experience online or whilethey're in your store.
You can hear that happening, asit happens, because you're
right there with it.
(25:11):
And it made me think of thatvery first interview that we did
with you, amanda, which wasabout getting buy-in from your
boss, and I write this downbecause it's just so.
It couldn't be more true.
It's most business owners donot have time to solve their own
problems, and if you want tomake a difference, let's say
(25:32):
you're an up-and-comingnext-generation store leader,
but they're still an owner inplace, or you're about to own
your own store or just startedowning your own store.
If you are a problem solver, ifyou listen to problems and then
bring solutions to the table,you're going to be looked to
every time as the best resourceon that team.
(25:54):
So getting buy-in from yourboss is really putting those two
things together listening,providing solutions, listening,
providing solutions andrealizing that your boss doesn't
have all the time in the worldto solve every single problem
that comes up.
So I think you can become anindispensable part of the team
at your store or at themanufacturer that you work for
(26:18):
by doing those two things.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was just thinking about whatmight be coming up next.
So, look, we could talk fordays probably about all of these
interviews, because there wereso many hours that we put into
(26:38):
them, talked to these people,had before and after with them,
and then we re-listened to allthe episodes and I am so excited
about what's coming next seasonbecause we're not finished.
This is the end of one season,just getting started.
That's right.
So we have half a year worth ofcontent and we're going to give
(27:00):
everyone a little bit of timeto go back and take a listen to
those While we're recording newinterviews.
We've already got thingsscheduled.
Some have already taken place.
But just to sort of tease somethings out there, as we were
talking to Deborah Short, shebrought up Deshae and I've been
popping around the country atdifferent retailers just to see
(27:23):
what's going on.
She mentioned that you can'tput a book with cause and effect
next to the product in yourstore and it reminded me of.
We write articles all the timeonline and put them, but we
don't talk about the specificitem to buy.
It's just the category of items, so that we're walking that
fine line for Deshae.
(27:44):
But the truth is that we don'thave all the answers when it
comes to Deshae and othercompliance issues, and we do
have a lot of questions andwe're hopefully going to get
some answers.
Amanda Ballard (27:57):
We have Aisa Waldstein.
He's a compliance guru.
We have him coming up in seasontwo.
One that I'm really excitedabout just because she's like
the digestive queen of the worldis Brenda Watson.
I think she's definitely a fanfavorite for all of our
(28:18):
retailers out there.
She's such a champion of theindependent channel, so I'm
really excited to have her onthe show next season.
Tina Smith (28:26):
Yeah, and someone else I'm excited to have back.
We're going to have MikeMaddock again as a sort of
teaser before the Soho Expo, soI'm looking forward to one of
the things that's so fun abouthaving people like Mike, as he's
worked with Fortune 100companies, so he is the guy
that's working for the Goliathsand he can give us some intel
(28:48):
into what they're afraid of,which is what we talked about
last time, but also how eitherwe're not competing with them or
how to compete with them.
So I'm excited to have him backbefore Soho Expo to give you a
little sneak peek of what youmight be interested in hearing
if you attend the event.
Amanda Ballard (29:08):
Yeah, and I'm also just always excited to be
able to talk to retailers thatare really crushing it, so we
have a few retailer interviewslined up for this year that I'm
really excited about differentbusiness models that we can
learn from, and people that arerelatively new, owners, people
that have been doing this for 40years.
(29:29):
We're all over, covering asmany different avenues as we can
, so I'm really looking forwardto this upcoming season.
Tina Smith (29:38):
Yeah, I'm so excited about the retailers that we've
got in store.
We have someone who's going tocome talk to us about EOS.
If you don't know what that is,there's a book called Traction
out there that you can wet yourappetite with while you wait
before we get that episode inplace.
But it's really about how toefficiently operate a store.
(30:00):
And look, that's so hardbecause there's so many things
competing for your time as astore operator or owner, and I
think putting that process inplace is going to be huge for us
to talk about.
So we're going to talk tosomeone about using EOS, that
entrepreneurs operating system,in a store.
(30:21):
We're also going to talk todifferent retailers of different
sizes.
So some of these that are inbig cities and how they partner
with other people to become evenbigger and better, and then
some people that are in reallyrural locations but they are out
competing some of the storesthat have a lot of population
and traffic in their areas.
(30:42):
So I'm so excited to bring thatto the table because it's a
diverse experience but peopleare winning in all kinds of
situations and that again bringsme more hope for the other
retailers that are out there.
Amanda Ballard (30:57):
Yeah, it's not a one size fits all solution.
Tina Smith (31:00):
No, absolutely not, but I do think there are themes
again that we can talk about allthroughout the retailers and
manufacturers' experiences.
And look, I hope we solve someproblems too, because we are
trying to bring manufacturersand retailers to the same table
(31:22):
to fix issues that maybe all ofus are having, whether it be
some distribution things, co-opmoney, how to advertise and
bring people into the stores,bigger baskets, more foot
traffic.
I think it's something that weall want, and so how do we solve
some of those problems?
I think listening is probablykey to that.
(31:42):
So we're going to listen tomore manufacturers and more
retailers and see if we can comeup with some solutions for both
to bring everyone to the tableand solve some big issues for
the industry, because I think,at the end of the day, we all
have a common goal of it's allabout the end user and having
them live a happier, healthierlife.
Amanda Ballard (32:05):
And whether you're a retailer or
manufacturer, you're doing whatyou're doing because you believe
in the product or the servicesthat you are supplying and I
think, when you get down to theroot of it, it's all the same.
Tina Smith (32:20):
Yeah, and then from our perspective, amanda, I think
some of the topics that we'regoing to cover are some
benchmarks.
We've been looking at a lot ofdifferent retailers and talking
to a lot of different retailersand manufacturers and they're
just some things that we'refinding the best retailers have
this much of a margin on most oftheir products or this kind of
(32:40):
a product mix.
There are some themes thatwe're finding as far as
benchmarking whether or not youhave a healthy retail store or a
healthy manufacturer, p&l soI'm excited to have some of
those conversations.
And then we got some feedback,which was fun last season, which
(33:01):
was that we should disagreemore.
So I am looking for placeswhere we don't agree Okay, so
that we can maybe have some ofthose discussions while we're
here.
And the big challenge to that is, I think we're both pretty
agreeable and that we'reopen-minded enough to see two
(33:23):
sides to an argument.
So even when we don't agree,it's usually like well, I see
why you think that, and so itdoesn't really sound like a good
argument.
I know it doesn't sound like agood argument, which is funny
because I think in Mike'sepisode he talked about if your
business partner is tooagreeable or you like each other
(33:46):
too much, it's probably not agreat partnership.
So anyway, we're going to tryto argue more.
Amanda Ballard (33:54):
We'll make things more entertaining.
And just trying to argue Likewe have to do this.
Tina Smith (34:01):
No, and the truth is , if we bring Chase on here more
often, he would argue with us.
Amanda Ballard (34:08):
You're just saying you're crazy.
Tina Smith (34:12):
You do say that a lot More and more.
I know it's very healthy,though, because I like his
pushback and I get more creativearound.
Well, wait a second.
That might be crazy, but here'sa way that we can make it
happen.
That's not so crazy.
Amanda Ballard (34:27):
I'm just like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tina Smith (34:29):
Yeah, it's just probably good that we have Chase
in our mix to tap on theshoulder sometimes so that he
can disagree with us.
Oh man, yeah that's good.
Yeah, a lot of other topics arecoming our way too.
We're definitely getting intoads.
(34:50):
What are some of the othertopics that you're excited about
covering?
Amanda Ballard (34:55):
I would like to really spend some more time in
the content creation space.
I think we talked a lot aboutemail this season, but I'd like
to do some deeper dives intocontent marketing.
I think it's a source subjectfor a lot of people and want to
try to make it seem not sointimidating.
I think that we did that wellwith email, but I think it
(35:18):
expands beyond that.
I'm excited to do some of myown research in between now and
when season two starts to rollout, of what are some other
things that you can do to geteven more creative and make this
easier than it already is.
Tina Smith (35:35):
Yeah, I'll just tell you I'm always excited about
this topic because it's aspecialty.
I've got some good case studieswhere I can show hey, we did
this.
Some of it was just rearrangingcontent that was already there.
The search traffic just goes up, up, up.
We can talk about the detailsof how we did that, because some
(35:57):
natural products retailers arejust content machines.
They are pumping it out butit's not making a difference on
their numbers.
So we can talk about why thatis.
Then others, how to be the mosteffective while not wanting to
do content marketing.
Amanda Ballard (36:12):
Yes, Because you don't have to go crazy.
Tina Smith (36:16):
No, you don't have to go crazy.
There are some less expensiveresources that you can use to
help you do the thing.
If it's something that youdon't like doing, yeah, exactly.
Amanda Ballard (36:27):
That's one thing that I really want to touch on
more in season two, again, justbringing more and more experts
to the table to talk about theirdifferent specialties and just
give our listeners the bestoverarching education that we
can in all things.
(36:48):
Natural products marketing.
Tina Smith (36:50):
Look, there will be reappearances.
I mentioned Mike Maddock.
We'll have Billy on again.
Billy Jones with Save NaturallyDefinitely have Ryan
Simpson-Brinner again.
We will have people that willbe coming back.
If you loved their previousepisode, listen for that again,
but we'll always be bringing newtopics, new people and new
(37:14):
resources to you to help yougrow your business so that you
can reach more people and changemore lives.
Amanda Ballard (37:22):
Thanks, so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (37:33):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
I was just thinking about, like, what might be
coming up next.
So, look, we could talk fordays probably about all of these
interviews, because there wereso many hours that we put into
them, talked to these people,had before and after with them,
and then we relistened to allthe episodes.
(00:21):
But I am so excited aboutwhat's coming next season.
Welcome to the Natural ProductsMarketer Podcast.
Amanda Ballard (00:32):
I'm Tina and I'm Amanda, and we're here to make
marketing easier for naturalproducts businesses, so you can
reach more people and changemore lives.
Tina Smith (00:44):
Hi, amanda.
Hey, we are here to talk aboutseason one of the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast, and Iwas just thinking about it
because I got a notice inJanuary that it was time for our
one year renewal of the domainnaturalproductsmarketercom.
(01:06):
So do you remember over a yearago when I reached out to you
and said hey, I have a crazyidea.
Amanda Ballard (01:13):
I do.
I actually remember where I was.
I was like in a Starbucksparking lot, had just picked up
a drink and get this message.
It was like do you want to hearmy crazy idea?
I was like, absolutely I do.
And the rest was just great.
Tina Smith (01:30):
That is not the last time I sent you a message like
that.
Amanda Ballard (01:32):
No, it seems to be a weekly occurrence lately.
Tina Smith (01:37):
Yeah, do you want to hear this crazy idea?
And you always say yes, whichis so encouraging to me.
Amanda Ballard (01:43):
Maybe you're not so crazy.
Tina Smith (01:46):
No, I'm definitely crazy, and there have been just
so the listeners understandthere are times when Amanda has
been like, yeah, no, that is nothappening or it's not happening
right now, but I do have a lotof ideas around helping natural
products retailers win and grow.
It's a huge passion for me andI think it's all started with
(02:11):
because I have the end customerin mind.
Like they deserve to havepeople like you in their lives,
and so I want to help them findyou.
I want to help people find theresources that they need in
order to take care of their ownhealth and wellness, and it's
(02:31):
been a passion for a very longtime.
But a year ago I was like, hey,do you want to help me make a
bigger impact on the naturalproducts retailers?
And you were like, yeah, I'm in.
Amanda Ballard (02:44):
Yeah, no, it's been super fun and just
reflecting on the past year ofall the work that we did to
prepare for the podcast andfinally launching it it's been
the way that I view it and Iwould say that you would feel
the same is I've gotten way moreout of just doing this show
(03:06):
than I have put into it, andthere's a lot of stuff that goes
into every single episode.
But, man, I just feel like I'vejust been so blessed by all of
the interviews that we've hadjust our conversations and I
view it almost as my continuingeducation.
It's like there's so manythings that I could do to
(03:27):
further my knowledge inmarketing, but I'm like I get to
do this just for fun and helppeople along the way, so it's
been a joy to be on this journeytogether.
Tina Smith (03:39):
Yeah, no kidding.
I mean, I just think about allof these wonderful resources
that we've been able tointerview, both in the industry
and out of it.
It's stuff I wanna know as muchas I want retailers and other
people, manufacturers in theindustry to know.
It's things that I'm askingquestions about too, or that our
(04:02):
clients are asking questionsabout.
So it's so wonderful to be ableto spend time with these people
picking their brains and itdoesn't seem to be a huge ask
for them and they teach us allkinds of things.
And then, after the episodes,I'm always really excited
because I'm like oh, we can takethis back to the people we're
(04:24):
working with and we can do allthese new things or try and
experiment, because I think thisinformation it just sort of
unlocks a piece of somethingthat we've been chewing over
maybe for a long time.
So it's been so helpful for ourclients as well.
Amanda Ballard (04:43):
Yeah, so I know we wanted to spend the bulk of
today's episode just talkingabout things we've learned from
our guests in our interviewswith them and things that maybe
will pique our listeners'interest to maybe go back and
listen to some of these episodesthat they might have missed.
So let's dive into that.
Tina Smith (05:03):
Yeah.
So just to start with, I'll saywe're on episode 22 now, I
think, and I didn't even realizethat we had done so many and,
as we were saying, okay, let'sgo back and review it.
Listening to all the episodesover again, I was like wow, that
is a lot of content that we'vecovered.
And yet there were some themesthat came up over and over again
(05:26):
.
One of them that just comes tomind was echoed from Ryan
Simpson-Brinner, chris Sorenson,billy Jones, seth Spears, peter
Moraine, that we have to bemarketing on our differentiators
.
We have to talk about whatmakes this different than other
(05:49):
retailers or other people in ourindustry, and we probably don't
do that enough.
A lot of times.
It's this consultative approachand people aren't talking about
it in the marketing as much asthey probably should.
Amanda Ballard (06:03):
Yeah, I made a note of something that Peter
Moraine said on his episode.
He said that the smaller yourbudget, the more disruptive your
brand needs to be, and I waslike that is just a golden
nugget that I think all of ourlisteners because I think no
matter the size of your businessand a lot of our friends in
(06:25):
this space are operating onsmaller budgets you can be
disruptive with little money andeven when you start to increase
your revenue and all of thatit's so.
I feel like it's really hard tobe like I'm gonna spend all
this money on marketing, eventhough I know I should, but it's
(06:46):
like you don't have to spend aton.
I mean, there's definitelyrecommendations of what you
should spend, but I think itgave me hope of you can still do
a lot with little resources.
Tina Smith (07:00):
Yeah, which reminds me of something in Ryan Simpson
Brenner's interview, which wasall about lowering the volume or
the amount of choices that youhave, bulking up the volume of
the few lines that you spendmoney with so that you can
capitalize on the number ofhuman resources that you have.
(07:21):
So small resources, whether itbe in budget for marketing, or
smaller resources with people,because it's tough to find good
people to work in retail thesedays, and that just makes you
more creative.
So what are some of the waysthat you can sort of work your
way or get creative outside ofthat and I think all of our
(07:43):
podcast interviewees hadsomething to say- about that.
Amanda Ballard (07:47):
Yeah, I think that reminds me of I know Chase
Ballard talked about this aswell as Chris Sorenson.
You're talking about utilizingour human resources wisely.
They both talked aboutmerchandising and product
selection, and I think Ryan eventalked about this too.
(08:08):
You don't need to have more.
More does not equal better.
So choosing just a few productsthat you really believe in,
having this good, better, bestmentality when you're making
these purchasing decisions andwhen you only have five options
for vitamin C as opposed to 20because there's more than 20 out
(08:31):
there it's like it makes yourstaff's job easier to
merchandise them.
It makes it easier for thecustomer to decide what do I
pick?
Well, there's five choicesinstead of 20.
So it creates a path of justless resistance on multiple
fronts when you kind of justpair things down.
Tina Smith (08:52):
Yeah, and that just reminds me of our interview with
Billy Jones when he's talkingabout okay, then who do you
partner with?
If you only have fivemanufacturers that you're
working with around vitamin C,who do you partner with?
And Billy's not the only onethat talked about this, but
(09:13):
finding those manufacturers thatare protecting the independent
retailers is so important Ifthey're enforcing map policy,
which I know is difficult we'vetalked about this with vendors
and how do you do this and it'svery difficult to do but people
do dedicate resources to makethat happen if they're in the
(09:33):
business of furthering theindependent retailers in this
industry.
So I think that's one key isfinding people that help protect
this channel so that you candeliver the best customer
experience and also finding thebest products.
So Dr Gregor, who wrote how Notto Die and how Not to Diet, has
(09:56):
come out with a new book calledhow Not to Age, and he sits and
talks in the introduction tothis book.
He says there's no guaranteethat a supplement bottle even
contains what's listed on itslabel.
In one study, only two out of12 supplement companies were
(10:16):
found to have products that werelabeled accurately, and the New
York State Attorney Generalcommissioned DNA testing of 78
bottles of commercial herbalsupplements sold by GNC, walmart
and Target, and four out offive bottles didn't contain any
(10:36):
of the herbs listed on theirlabels Crazy.
So you know that independentretailers are not carrying those
brands.
Those are the same brands thatyou find on Amazon.
This is a point ofdifferentiation and finding the
manufacturers that actually havetheir products tested, they
stand by good manufacturingpractices, they do not have
(11:00):
fillers in their product andthey have what it says on the
label.
That's another way that, firstof all, you're protecting the
consumer, like Deborah Shorttalked about, like we are the
gatekeepers, and you are alsoprotecting yourself from claims
like this.
That just shouldn't be.
(11:20):
This is not how it should be inthis industry.
Amanda Ballard (11:23):
Yeah, and I think you mentioned Deborah and
I was going to do the same thing.
Trade shows like Soho Expo area fantastic place for people to
find these brands that supportthe independent retailer,
because that whole association,senpa, is designed to protect
(11:43):
the independent natural productsretailer, and so supporting
shows like Soho Expo, sohoHealth Fest and being a part of
that, I think, is just oneadditional way that we can
filter through all the crapthat's out there, because the
brands that show up to showslike that they really do care
(12:04):
and the vast majority of themare doing things the right way.
Tina Smith (12:08):
Yeah, and we know they care because it's a big
investment to show up at showslike that, so they are investing
in the independent retailerchannel and because there's a
lot of training that goes on atthose shows, including hey,
here's a way to grow yourbusiness.
I know Ed Jones was one of thepresenters at last year's Soho
(12:32):
Expo, did a brilliant job justtalking through different ways
that he markets the business,different partners that he has
in the industry, so that theyare really the health and
wellness hub of Chattanooga, andhe was completely open book and
transparent in his presentationabout the tactics that he uses.
(12:55):
I don't know where else youfind that kind of training, and
putting on an event like thatrequires people to invest in
booths and sponsorships andeverything, and so the
manufacturers that are investingin that show are manufacturers
that care about the retailers,getting them the right training
and protecting that channel.
Amanda Ballard (13:18):
Yeah, and I think it's really easy to
overlook the independencebecause they definitely are
shrinking in size.
But our conversations aboutthese trade shows is making me
think of our interview with MikeMaddock and how his whole
interview.
He talked about how this Davidand Goliath story and how
(13:42):
oftentimes Goliath is afraid ofDavid and I think we get that
wrong as independent retailersand maybe smaller natural
products businesses where we'reso afraid of these big box
retailers.
And the fact of the matter iswe don't have to be, and I was
so encouraged listening to hisepisode and I came away with it
(14:05):
with so much hope that themobility that these smaller
retailers have is so far beyondwhat these big corporate giants
will even let you consider doing.
You have no freedom when youwork for a corporation like
Target to build a display theway you want it.
(14:26):
It's like no, it has to bebuilt this way.
It's like where's the fun inthat?
Tina Smith (14:32):
Yeah, no kidding.
I mean Chris Sorenson talkedabout merchandising and how you
could get so creative with it.
So if you have not listened tothat episode and you've got some
crazy ideas you'd like toimplement, highly recommend it.
And to go back to Mike Maddockfor a minute, he is the just
agreed that he is the Senpa SohoExpo keynote speaker in
(14:57):
September, so it's very excitingthat he's going to be there.
If anyone wants to register forthat event to come see him
speak, of course, listen to theepisode.
One of the best little quotes orthings that I took from his
episode was the use of the voiceof the customer versus talking
(15:19):
about the benefit load.
So he was talking about how wealways talk about, hey, vitamin
D or vitamin C or whatever it is, does this and this and this
and this.
And what we know is true.
We found that with retailersthat we're working with and
since Sembraner talked about itin his episode as well is when
(15:40):
you start talking about usecases is when you really start
to sell more product, becauseyou are speaking to the exact
pain that the customer isfeeling and the only way that
you know what problem thatproduct or you personally are
solving is if you are listeningto what they're saying and using
their words.
(16:00):
So I think one of the thingsthat Mike talked about is, when
he's looking at supplements andvitamins, that people are saying
all this stuff likebioavailability and big words
that he's like what does thiseven mean?
And when we talk about it, welike to say things like hey,
your body can absorb this much,instead of using words like
bioavailability, because it'sjust easier for the consumer to
(16:23):
understand and those are wordsthat they use anyway.
So just recognizing changinglanguage can help you sell more
product.
And talking about specific usecases, like I have heartburn
today, is there something thatcan help me speak to people
about their actual problem, andit does help you sell more
(16:43):
product while you're solving anactual problem for someone Right
.
Amanda Ballard (16:48):
And that's pretty much what John Jance was
talking about in our interviewwith him too about the customer
journey and really having yourcustomers know you and trust you
, and if you're speaking alanguage that's so above their
comprehension, it's hard tobuild that trust.
Tina Smith (17:07):
Yeah, 100%.
So talking to them, doingcustomer interviews look, you
know I talk about this all thetime Google reviews, customer
interviews.
Google reviews, customerinterviews.
You always ask like what's oneway that people can change their
marketing today or make abigger impact with their
marketing today?
And I always go back to talk toyour customers.
(17:28):
Look at Google reviews, pullmore Google reviews in.
It helps organic traffic, butit's also just.
It gives you so much marketingfodder that you can use to have
a whole plan.
Just talk to five or 10customers.
You get a whole plan for therest of the year as to the
topics that you need to cover,the language that you should use
(17:49):
when you're talking aboutissues and the way that you
serve people, because it'sdifferent than going on Amazon
or walking into Target where noone's going to help you find
what you need.
And so talking to customers ishuge.
Amanda Ballard (18:04):
Yeah, and I think you reminded me of our
conversation with Katie Colemanat Nutrition World, and I know
we already talked about them alittle bit.
But one thing and partiallybecause I was there when a lot
of this was happening but whenshe started her family, I think
it ignited a passion forproviding options for new moms,
(18:27):
young families, young childrenthat we didn't have before, and
it's in developing thatcommunity something that John
talked about so much of thepower of community.
We were hearing things like ohman, I wish we had a good baby
formula option, or how do I knowwhat vitamins are safe for my
(18:49):
infants, and things of thatnature, and I think she really
took a hold of that andimplemented that in a way that I
just thought was brilliant, tothe point where I hadn't been to
that store in several years andI went back and visited and I
was like you can tell that theirdemographic has changed because
of building this community withyoung families in that city and
(19:14):
bringing them products that aremeaningful to them in that
season of life.
Tina Smith (19:19):
Yeah, which reminds me of.
I loved Katie's interview shetalked so much about mothers,
intuition, female intuition andtrusting yourself and that
there's this gap that's happenedover the years.
We're used to we would trustour guts when it came to
(19:40):
treating minor illnesses for ourkids and even for ourselves,
and that we have lost that senseof trust.
Maybe it's because we don'tlisten to ourselves as much.
But I've been listening toother health and wellness
podcasts and when I heard thisparenting podcast recently that
talked about one of the easiestways to make your child full
(20:04):
heard and to make them aconfident adult is to say to
them I trust you, I believe youand I hear what you're saying
and I believe you.
And it made me think of thiswomen's health experience,
because there's such a dearth ofinformation around, like
hormone balancing or a lot ofdifferent like age appropriate
(20:27):
things from the medicalcommunity, as women's health
changes in life.
And it's because when we've goneto the doctor and this has come
up with, you know, like heartconditions and emergency rooms,
that women have heart attacksand they are less likely to live
through that because the healthproviders don't believe they're
(20:48):
actually having a heart attack,because it happens to us
younger it looks different thanmen.
There haven't been a lot ofmedical studies around all of
our health needs and especiallywhen it comes to hormones and,
as we're aging, those things arejust like well, maybe you've
got a mental health issue versusthere's something actually
going on in your physical bodythat is also causing this and we
(21:11):
haven't been told enough.
I believe you, but this ishappening in your body and so we
don't even trust ourselvesanymore, and I love that Katie
has decided and been verypassionate about.
I believe you that when momscome into the store and when
women come into the store, shebelieves what they're saying.
(21:32):
Their medical and healthexperience has been, and then
she's helping them provide anavenue to treat that and I think
some big learning for all theretailers and manufacturers out
there that for a long time, wewomen have been not believed
about our own health, eventhough we know our body is
better than anyone else, and Ithink a lot of different
(21:54):
providers can take hold of thatand put into the world.
Hey, we believe you and we'vegot things that can help you
manage this thing that's goingon in the body.
Amanda Ballard (22:05):
Yeah, and when you're saying trusting within
yourself to believe these things, it reminded me of our
interview with Terry Hoffman,and her whole thing is trusting
your gut as a business owner,and whether it's deciding to
bring a new product or serviceto market, you can have all the
data in the world.
(22:26):
But at the end of the day, ifit doesn't sit right in your gut
and your spirit that it's likeyou know your business better
than anybody else and so even ifall of the going back to
Katie's example if all of thedata is like, oh no, you don't
need to pursue that side of theindustry, maybe there's not a
(22:46):
lot of money in that or whateverit's like, but if you know I
can make this work, at the endof the day, that's really all
that matters if you believe it,because at the end of the day,
you know data changes.
Tina Smith (23:02):
Well, and I left Terry's interview that she
worked with PNG and these largecorporations and they got it
wrong by just looking at thedata.
So it's not.
I love data and it is not theonly thing to look at.
There's an experience thatyou've had.
Data gives you direction andthen you can interpret what that
(23:25):
means because you are listeningto the customer, and that's it
brings us back to the micmaticinterview, which was hey, these
big companies are afraid of youbecause you are on the ground in
the stores every day talking tocustomers.
They're giving you feedback, sothat when you see the data, you
actually know what it means.
They don't, because they're sofar removed from working with
(23:47):
the customer every day.
And even if it's Amazon thatjust has an online transaction,
online is not the same thing asthe one to one interactions that
you're having in your storeevery day.
So I think that should giveeveryone a lot of hope that
first, you're not competing withthe Amazons of the world
because you're doing somethingentirely different, but also, if
(24:09):
you were, you can win becauseyou have a different thing to
offer than Amazon or any ofthose big corporations.
Amanda Ballard (24:17):
Yeah and I think you know Chase said this so
well is that he said peopledon't come to your business for
your products, they come for you, and I think that there isn't a
truer statement out there, whenit comes to natural products
retailers, that the people arewhy they are so successful, and
(24:37):
we hear that all the time.
It's our you know consultativeapproach to, to healthcare, to
supplementation everything'scustom and tailored to you.
You can't get that through AI.
Tina Smith (24:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
And that kind of brings me tofiguring out problems that are
happening in your store,listening to the voice of the
customer as to what those mightbe, whether it be their
experience online or whilethey're in your store.
You can hear that happening, asit happens, because you're
right there with it.
(25:11):
And it made me think of thatvery first interview that we did
with you, amanda, which wasabout getting buy-in from your
boss, and I write this downbecause it's just so.
It couldn't be more true.
It's most business owners donot have time to solve their own
problems, and if you want tomake a difference, let's say
(25:32):
you're an up-and-comingnext-generation store leader,
but they're still an owner inplace, or you're about to own
your own store or just startedowning your own store.
If you are a problem solver, ifyou listen to problems and then
bring solutions to the table,you're going to be looked to
every time as the best resourceon that team.
(25:54):
So getting buy-in from yourboss is really putting those two
things together listening,providing solutions, listening,
providing solutions andrealizing that your boss doesn't
have all the time in the worldto solve every single problem
that comes up.
So I think you can become anindispensable part of the team
at your store or at themanufacturer that you work for
(26:18):
by doing those two things.
Yeah, absolutely.
I was just thinking about whatmight be coming up next.
So, look, we could talk fordays probably about all of these
interviews, because there wereso many hours that we put into
(26:38):
them, talked to these people,had before and after with them,
and then we re-listened to allthe episodes and I am so excited
about what's coming next seasonbecause we're not finished.
This is the end of one season,just getting started.
That's right.
So we have half a year worth ofcontent and we're going to give
(27:00):
everyone a little bit of timeto go back and take a listen to
those While we're recording newinterviews.
We've already got thingsscheduled.
Some have already taken place.
But just to sort of tease somethings out there, as we were
talking to Deborah Short, shebrought up Deshae and I've been
popping around the country atdifferent retailers just to see
(27:23):
what's going on.
She mentioned that you can'tput a book with cause and effect
next to the product in yourstore and it reminded me of.
We write articles all the timeonline and put them, but we
don't talk about the specificitem to buy.
It's just the category of items, so that we're walking that
fine line for Deshae.
(27:44):
But the truth is that we don'thave all the answers when it
comes to Deshae and othercompliance issues, and we do
have a lot of questions andwe're hopefully going to get
some answers.
Amanda Ballard (27:57):
We have Aisa Waldstein.
He's a compliance guru.
We have him coming up in seasontwo.
One that I'm really excitedabout just because she's like
the digestive queen of the worldis Brenda Watson.
I think she's definitely a fanfavorite for all of our
(28:18):
retailers out there.
She's such a champion of theindependent channel, so I'm
really excited to have her onthe show next season.
Tina Smith (28:26):
Yeah, and someone else I'm excited to have back.
We're going to have MikeMaddock again as a sort of
teaser before the Soho Expo, soI'm looking forward to one of
the things that's so fun abouthaving people like Mike, as he's
worked with Fortune 100companies, so he is the guy
that's working for the Goliathsand he can give us some intel
(28:48):
into what they're afraid of,which is what we talked about
last time, but also how eitherwe're not competing with them or
how to compete with them.
So I'm excited to have him backbefore Soho Expo to give you a
little sneak peek of what youmight be interested in hearing
if you attend the event.
Amanda Ballard (29:08):
Yeah, and I'm also just always excited to be
able to talk to retailers thatare really crushing it, so we
have a few retailer interviewslined up for this year that I'm
really excited about differentbusiness models that we can
learn from, and people that arerelatively new, owners, people
that have been doing this for 40years.
(29:29):
We're all over, covering asmany different avenues as we can
, so I'm really looking forwardto this upcoming season.
Tina Smith (29:38):
Yeah, I'm so excited about the retailers that we've
got in store.
We have someone who's going tocome talk to us about EOS.
If you don't know what that is,there's a book called Traction
out there that you can wet yourappetite with while you wait
before we get that episode inplace.
But it's really about how toefficiently operate a store.
(30:00):
And look, that's so hardbecause there's so many things
competing for your time as astore operator or owner, and I
think putting that process inplace is going to be huge for us
to talk about.
So we're going to talk tosomeone about using EOS, that
entrepreneurs operating system,in a store.
(30:21):
We're also going to talk todifferent retailers of different
sizes.
So some of these that are inbig cities and how they partner
with other people to become evenbigger and better, and then
some people that are in reallyrural locations but they are out
competing some of the storesthat have a lot of population
and traffic in their areas.
(30:42):
So I'm so excited to bring thatto the table because it's a
diverse experience but peopleare winning in all kinds of
situations and that again bringsme more hope for the other
retailers that are out there.
Amanda Ballard (30:57):
Yeah, it's not a one size fits all solution.
Tina Smith (31:00):
No, absolutely not, but I do think there are themes
again that we can talk about allthroughout the retailers and
manufacturers' experiences.
And look, I hope we solve someproblems too, because we are
trying to bring manufacturersand retailers to the same table
(31:22):
to fix issues that maybe all ofus are having, whether it be
some distribution things, co-opmoney, how to advertise and
bring people into the stores,bigger baskets, more foot
traffic.
I think it's something that weall want, and so how do we solve
some of those problems?
I think listening is probablykey to that.
(31:42):
So we're going to listen tomore manufacturers and more
retailers and see if we can comeup with some solutions for both
to bring everyone to the tableand solve some big issues for
the industry, because I think,at the end of the day, we all
have a common goal of it's allabout the end user and having
them live a happier, healthierlife.
Amanda Ballard (32:05):
And whether you're a retailer or
manufacturer, you're doing whatyou're doing because you believe
in the product or the servicesthat you are supplying and I
think, when you get down to theroot of it, it's all the same.
Tina Smith (32:20):
Yeah, and then from our perspective, amanda, I think
some of the topics that we'regoing to cover are some
benchmarks.
We've been looking at a lot ofdifferent retailers and talking
to a lot of different retailersand manufacturers and they're
just some things that we'refinding the best retailers have
this much of a margin on most oftheir products or this kind of
(32:40):
a product mix.
There are some themes thatwe're finding as far as
benchmarking whether or not youhave a healthy retail store or a
healthy manufacturer, p&l soI'm excited to have some of
those conversations.
And then we got some feedback,which was fun last season, which
(33:01):
was that we should disagreemore.
So I am looking for placeswhere we don't agree Okay, so
that we can maybe have some ofthose discussions while we're
here.
And the big challenge to that is, I think we're both pretty
agreeable and that we'reopen-minded enough to see two
(33:23):
sides to an argument.
So even when we don't agree,it's usually like well, I see
why you think that, and so itdoesn't really sound like a good
argument.
I know it doesn't sound like agood argument, which is funny
because I think in Mike'sepisode he talked about if your
business partner is tooagreeable or you like each other
(33:46):
too much, it's probably not agreat partnership.
So anyway, we're going to tryto argue more.
Amanda Ballard (33:54):
We'll make things more entertaining.
And just trying to argue Likewe have to do this.
Tina Smith (34:01):
No, and the truth is , if we bring Chase on here more
often, he would argue with us.
Amanda Ballard (34:08):
You're just saying you're crazy.
Tina Smith (34:12):
You do say that a lot More and more.
I know it's very healthy,though, because I like his
pushback and I get more creativearound.
Well, wait a second.
That might be crazy, but here'sa way that we can make it
happen.
That's not so crazy.
Amanda Ballard (34:27):
I'm just like yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tina Smith (34:29):
Yeah, it's just probably good that we have Chase
in our mix to tap on theshoulder sometimes so that he
can disagree with us.
Oh man, yeah that's good.
Yeah, a lot of other topics arecoming our way too.
We're definitely getting intoads.
(34:50):
What are some of the othertopics that you're excited about
covering?
Amanda Ballard (34:55):
I would like to really spend some more time in
the content creation space.
I think we talked a lot aboutemail this season, but I'd like
to do some deeper dives intocontent marketing.
I think it's a source subjectfor a lot of people and want to
try to make it seem not sointimidating.
I think that we did that wellwith email, but I think it
(35:18):
expands beyond that.
I'm excited to do some of myown research in between now and
when season two starts to rollout, of what are some other
things that you can do to geteven more creative and make this
easier than it already is.
Tina Smith (35:35):
Yeah, I'll just tell you I'm always excited about
this topic because it's aspecialty.
I've got some good case studieswhere I can show hey, we did
this.
Some of it was just rearrangingcontent that was already there.
The search traffic just goes up, up, up.
We can talk about the detailsof how we did that, because some
(35:57):
natural products retailers arejust content machines.
They are pumping it out butit's not making a difference on
their numbers.
So we can talk about why thatis.
Then others, how to be the mosteffective while not wanting to
do content marketing.
Amanda Ballard (36:12):
Yes, Because you don't have to go crazy.
Tina Smith (36:16):
No, you don't have to go crazy.
There are some less expensiveresources that you can use to
help you do the thing.
If it's something that youdon't like doing, yeah, exactly.
Amanda Ballard (36:27):
That's one thing that I really want to touch on
more in season two, again, justbringing more and more experts
to the table to talk about theirdifferent specialties and just
give our listeners the bestoverarching education that we
can in all things.
(36:48):
Natural products marketing.
Tina Smith (36:50):
Look, there will be reappearances.
I mentioned Mike Maddock.
We'll have Billy on again.
Billy Jones with Save NaturallyDefinitely have Ryan
Simpson-Brinner again.
We will have people that willbe coming back.
If you loved their previousepisode, listen for that again,
but we'll always be bringing newtopics, new people and new
(37:14):
resources to you to help yougrow your business so that you
can reach more people and changemore lives.
Amanda Ballard (37:22):
Thanks, so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (37:33):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
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