May 28, 2025 • 46 mins
The retail landscape for natural products has changed dramatically, especially since the pandemic pushed more consumers toward Amazon and online shopping. How can independent health food stores not just survive but thrive in this environment?
Jake Kivico, representing the third generation of family ownership at Nature's Finest in Phoenix, Arizona, reveals their strategic approach to building customer loyalty despite digital competition. After joining the family business full-time in 2021, Jake quickly realized that competing with Amazon on its terms wasn't viable. Instead, Nature's Finest developed a multi-faceted strategy centered around carefully selected brand partnerships and an innovative approach to private labeling.
What makes their approach unique is the creation of multiple private label brands through different manufacturing partners. Unlike most retailers who develop a single house brand, Nature's Finest operates several distinct private labels, addressing the misconception some customers have about house brand quality while ensuring customers can only purchase these products at their stores. Since most shoppers ask for specific supplements rather than brands, this strategy creates genuine loyalty by offering exclusive products that can't be found on Amazon.
Listen as Jake shares how they began this journey, the manufacturers they partner with, and how they've expanded their private label offerings over time. Whether you're a retailer looking for new competitive strategies or a brand wanting to understand the retailer perspective, this conversation offers valuable insights into building lasting customer relationships in the age of Amazon. Ready to rethink your approach to product exclusivity and customer loyalty?
Connect with us:
Email: info@naturalproductsmarketer.com
About Amanda Ballard
Amanda has worked in natural products marketing in the retail setting since 2016 and has a great understanding of the unique challenges and opportunities that retailers in this industry face. More than anything, she wants this industry to continue to boom and believes much of that success hinges on the ability of retailers to do well in their businesses and market their products effectively.
About Tina Smith
Since 2014, Tina has worked with multiple natural products businesses, discovering how to market their CBD products online, without having their payment processor shut them down, to letting customers talk about their health issues those products have helped them solve. She knows first hand how experts like you offer the best products and a superior customer experience, that is why she is committed to helping you find an easy way to grow your natural product business.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Jake Kiviko (00:00):
So we're very particular in the brands that we
partner with.
I think it's very important forindependent stores especially
to partner with the right brandsthese days, and there's not a
lot of them that are truly goodpartners anymore.
Tina Smith (00:18):
Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer
Podcast.
I'm Tina and.
Amanda Ballard (00:23):
I'm Amanda and we're here to make marketing
easier for natural productsbusinesses, so you can reach
more people and change morelives.
All right, welcome back to theNatural Products Marketer
Podcast.
We are super excited to bejoined by Jake Kivico of
Nature's Finest in the Phoenixarea.
(00:43):
Thanks for joining us today,jake.
Jake Kiviko (00:46):
Thank you, guys.
I'm glad to be here.
Amanda Ballard (00:48):
So we love to ask our guests um, because most
people don't grow up thinking Iwant to work in health food
stores Um, what got you into theindustry?
And maybe, maybe, you did wantto grow up and work in a health
food store, so we'd love to hearyour story.
Jake Kiviko (01:04):
Yeah, no, that's it .
That's a great question.
So I'm a third generation.
My family started our businessback in the 80s.
My grandparents actuallystarted the store, so then we
moved to Arizona from theIllinois area.
My dad got involved and so Ikind of grew up in these stores.
You know helping price things,doing things as a little kid
(01:27):
around the store and just seeinghow my dad did his work and you
know enjoying watching him dowhat he did.
But I didn't think I was goingto work in these stores, and
what happened was it was alittle bit after the pandemic my
dad was really adamant about,you know, retail is a demanding
job, so he didn't want to feellike he pushed any of us to do
(01:52):
what he did.
He knew that he lost a lot oftime with his family doing
retail and so he kind of wantedus to find our own way, and so
that's what I did.
I did a lot of different thingsand then, around 2021, I had a
conversation with my dad and wewere just kind of talking about
the business and you know someof the challenges that he was
(02:15):
facing today, you know, with thecompetition of Amazon after the
pandemic, after the pandemic,and so I we started talking
about what we could do with, youknow, maybe getting online and
becoming more omni-channel, andthat's kind of how I got
involved.
So I came to work full-timearound 2021 and um started with
(02:39):
the website uh, which we, youknow, got a lot of products on
there and started catering toour customers and allowing them
to order online, but found outthat that's also a very
challenging environment and it'svery competitive and so, you
know, started there, but thenreally got involved in the store
(03:00):
and really enjoyed the businessside of things and negotiating
things with brands and findingthe right partners, and I've
been here ever since.
Tina Smith (03:12):
Yeah, that's amazing .
We hear a lot of that thechallenge of competing against
Amazon online.
And you're right.
Especially after the pandemic,it became really easy to just go
to Amazon to get some of yoursupplements.
So what do you think helps youguys?
Stand out, your store, standout so that people aren't
(03:35):
running to Amazon.
They're coming to you becausethey can't find it on Amazon.
Jake Kiviko (03:41):
Yeah, so we're very particular in the brands that
we partner with.
I think it's very important forindependent stores especially
to partner with the right brandsthese days and there's not a
lot of them that are truly goodpartners anymore pricing is
(04:05):
absolutely the first thing thatwe look at when we talk to a
brand about bringing theirproducts in.
If there's not a good mappolicy in place and then, most
importantly, that's actuallypoliced, it's not really
something that we're interestedin getting our hands in.
Just because how many times doyou have a customer come and you
show them this great product,you recommend it to them and
(04:25):
then, the day that they don'twant to drive into the store,
they go to Amazon and see thatthey can get it cheaper.
It's really disheartening andit's hard to compete with that.
So we work really hard topartner with the right brands,
make sure that we can be at mapand be the best price and then
also just being a store that caneducate and help customers find
(04:48):
what they want to find and helpinform them on things.
Amanda Ballard (04:52):
So, jake, we had a conversation before we
started this recording where youwere telling us about how you
guys use private label to helpdifferentiate from the product
selection on Amazon.
So I'd love to kind of justdeep dive into your private
label strategy because I thinkit's really unique from what
(05:14):
I've heard from stores aroundthe country.
So I'd love to kind of justhear from your side of things
what your private label lookslike and how you guys do that
differently than other stores.
Jake Kiviko (05:27):
Yeah, so we're really big into private label.
There's a couple of reasonsthat I like private label a lot.
One of them is it createscustomer loyalty right, if you
have a product.
So let me, let me start over.
I can't speak on other stores,but for us, most of the time
when a customer comes into thestore, they're asking you for a
(05:49):
particular uh supplement, butthey don't necessarily mention a
brand name.
They want vitamin c ormagnesium, but they don't really
have a brand that they'relooking for.
It's not very often that theywant a specific brand.
So so for us it became a goodstrategy to kind of have private
label brands that we had tooffer that we felt were really
(06:13):
good products.
We partnered with privatelabelers that we felt made an
amazing product that competedwith some of the bigger brands
out there and this way when acustomer comes in looking for
something, we can offer them aprivate label product that we
have and then it creates thatcustomer loyalty that the
customer likes it.
They have no other place to getthat product other than in your
(06:36):
store.
It allows you to kind of havecontrol over the brand, because
how many times do you spendcountless hours and visits
building a brand with customersand then you know, years down
the road something happens withthat brand and you have a lot of
eggs in that basket and they'reno longer a good partner for
(06:58):
you.
That happens a lot and it getsreally discouraging.
So with private label, you kindof a lot and it gets really
discouraging.
So with private label you kindof, um, don't have that risk of
those kinds of things happening,you have control over your
brand and, uh, the products andthe pricing and all those things
.
But, um, we use a coupledifferent partners for that.
(07:21):
I think a lot of stores usuallyhave their private label brand
that has their store name on it,and we also do that.
But there's the three bigprivate labelers that I think a
lot of independent stores know,uh, which would be Vitality,
reliance and Vitamer.
Those ones are really easy towork with, they're really good,
(07:42):
they make great products andthey're just.
They don't have high orderminimums or anything like that.
So we work with those guys.
But sometimes there's overlap.
You know all three of themmight make the same product.
So for us we went ahead and didthree different brands with each
(08:02):
partner, and so that allows usto have our nature's finest
brand.
You know, that is usually whatwe'll show people, um, but
there's also that misconceptionsometimes that a house brand
isn't really the highest qualityproduct on the shelf, and so
having those other brands thatmaybe aren't tied to our name
(08:25):
allows us to have other optionsfor people that may, you know,
be feeling that way, although Itotally disagree with it.
I think our house brand is theone that we've felt was the best
partner with the best trademarkingredients, and we try and
inform customers of that.
But there is that misconceptionout there sometimes, so we have
(08:45):
other options for them, um, andso that's kind of what we've
done and it's been a really goodstrategy for us.
But, like I said, just creatingthat customer loyalty has been
awesome, because they can't gohome if they really like that
product and one day they don'twant to drive into the store and
they go to search on Amazon,it's not there, the only place
they can't go home if theyreally like that product.
And one day they don't want todrive into the store and they go
(09:05):
to search on Amazon, it's notthere.
The only place they can get itis in your store.
So I think private label issomething that other independent
retailers should really belooking at, because it's a
really good strategy.
It's been beneficial for us.
Tina Smith (09:22):
And Jake, when did you guys start doing your
private label?
Jake Kiviko (09:27):
That's a good question.
So, um, we started withVitality long before I got here,
and then Vitamer as well, butrecently we did Reliance.
And then we do have a coupleother private label partners
that are like more local, uh,smaller than you know, ones that
we sought out but maybe that umhave higher order minimums and
(09:52):
things like that, uh, that otherstores you know don't have easy
access to.
But we're always looking toexpand private label if there's
a good option and a good partner.
We enjoy doing that.
People like variety.
It's not like you have one formof magnesium on the shelf, you
(10:13):
have a couple options so thatcustomers can pick one, and so
why not have a couple of privatelabel options where you do have
that customer loyalty andcontrol over the brand?
Tina Smith (10:31):
Yeah, and when you guys were getting into it, did
you start with a few products,like you named vitamin C,
vitamin D initially, or was itlike, hey, we want all essential
oils, all of these categories?
Jake Kiviko (10:43):
Yeah, good question .
I think when we first startedwe did go pretty heavy with it
and that one was Vitality Workswhich, if anybody's familiar,
they, I believe, have a highbuy-in, like they want you to
kind of really buy into it andthey have a certain amount of
products that they want you tostart with, and so that can be
(11:04):
scary to people.
Um, again, I wasn't involved inthat decision but talking uh to
my father about it, he did tellme that that was a concern of
his at the time because theywanted you to to really get so
many items on the shelf.
And that was their firstventure into private label.
Um, and he went ahead and didthat and we did the uh essential
(11:25):
oils and they have all sorts ofherbs and tinctures and we
really bought into it.
And then, uh, as we saw itsucceed, we've kind of expanded
it.
And then with the other ones,uh no, we didn't go go crazy
with it, we just did a coupleitems, kind of tried to see how
they crazy with it.
(11:47):
We just did a couple items,kind of tried to see how they
resonated with customers andonce we saw that they were
something that people wereenjoying, then we continued to
expand it.
And once we saw that thatstrategy was working for us, we
said why are we not offeringeverything in our label?
Amanda Ballard (12:01):
So are you with with those?
I know you said you have youryour nature's finest brand, and
then these other brands that arestill private label, but are um
not under your name.
How have you found um customersreceive those products?
Um is, is it the same kind ofreception that they they get
towards your house brand or umare they like?
(12:24):
Oh, maybe.
I've never heard of this Kindof.
What sort of feedback do youget from customers with the
non-name brand items?
Jake Kiviko (12:34):
That's a really good question.
You know, I think a lot oftimes when a customer comes into
your store, they're looking foryour advice and expertise
already.
Um, like I mentioned, I don'thave and I can't speak for other
stores, but there's not a lotof people that come in and they
want magnesium from a certainbrand.
It just isn't something thathappens with us a lot and if it
(12:55):
does, it's usually a brand thatwe recommended to them, you know
, previously, and they've justcontinued to take it.
So we haven't seen any kind of,I guess, like pushback when we
show them brands that we'vecreated that they don't really
recognize.
They sometimes ask questionsabout you know where it's made
(13:19):
and you know who is this brand,and we're transparent with
customers as well.
You don't want to deceive themin any way, so we do tell them
if they ask that, yeah, this isa brand that you know, we've
partnered with this company tocreate and it's one that we
really stand behind and think isa great product and it would be
(13:41):
a great option for you.
Tina Smith (13:44):
Yeah, I'm curious about the branding around this,
because that is one thing thatcomes up.
There's so many decisions to bemade whenever you go into
private label and branding is abig piece of it, and especially
if it's not your house brand.
So there really aren't.
There's not a design alreadyaround the logo, and there's a
lot to create there.
So I'm curious, when you guyswere going into these multiple
(14:07):
brands, was there a thought likethis this brand should look
high end and did you contractwith a marketing firm to help
you?
Or were you guys just like, oh,we can do this, we can fix this
, or the manufacturing partnerwas helpful?
I'd love to hear more aboutthat.
Jake Kiviko (14:24):
Yeah, it's definitely the most difficult
part of the process, especiallyfor me.
I hate creating labels.
I'm not good at it, it's not myforte, and so that process can
be really lengthy for us.
Sometimes, you know, we think,oh yeah, you know, let's go with
this color and and this brandname and this logo, and then we
(14:45):
have the uh they're.
They're usually really helpful.
They have people in house thatwill listen to you and design
the labels and they send it backand it's like you had this
vision and it comes back and itlooks nothing like what you had
hoped for, and a large part ofthe time it's because of the way
that we're communicating it oryou're just seeing in your head
(15:06):
and it's.
It's a very difficult process.
It's my least favorite part,for sure.
But to answer your questionabout like higher end and things
like that, yes, we have kind ofdone that with a couple of the
brands.
A couple of the brands, likeone of the Vitamer makes all
(15:27):
their stuff in glass bottles,which you know people tend to
associate with a higher brand.
That's not plastic, and so forthat one we really spent a lot
of time kind of making it ahigher end, luxury looking label
and it turned out excellent andso, like that kind of, is that
higher end brand for us, I guess?
(15:47):
Um, and it'll look a little bitmore higher end to some of the
other ones that are in plasticand and that kind of thing.
And then other times it's justyou know what.
It's hard enough to come upwith a name and another logo and
and once you do you're justhappy with it and you go with it
and um, but yeah, there is somedifferentiation between a
(16:10):
couple of the manufacturers andand higher end and maybe house
brand and that kind of thing.
Tina Smith (16:18):
Yeah, it's nice to hear um some strategy around if
you're bringing in multiplebrands that are kind of they
there are house brands wheneveryou're doing private label, in
spite of the fact that theymight not have your logo on it.
So you know, a lot of times wehear in retail there's um the
three categories that you dohigh, medium, low and so I'm
(16:42):
curious, like from a pricingperspective, where did you guys
shake out?
Is your house brand thecheapest, and then how does that
affect your margin?
Jake Kiviko (16:54):
It's a good question.
I wouldn't say it's thecheapest, I would say it's
competitive, and that's anotherthing.
That's important to us is, youknow, we do know that customers
are price sensitive, and so wereally kind of evaluate whether
or not we can be competitivewith some of the pricing of,
like, the bigger brands and andthat kind of thing, and so we
(17:17):
try and be as competitive aspossible.
And, um to your point, I dothink that between manufacturers
that we're working with, thereis kind of like a low, mid and
high price point, and it justdepends on what they're offering
as far as pricing and what youfeel like you can offer the
product at and still make yourmargin.
(17:38):
So as far as that, I thinkwe're very competitive.
I don't think we're thecheapest option, but there is,
you know.
Then we have a line that tendsto be a little bit lower in
price and that can be our lowprice option.
It's just it depends on whichbrand or private label product
(18:00):
that we're talking about.
Amanda Ballard (18:02):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was just talking with a storewe work with the other day and
they were kind of frustrated bythe fact that their private
label they love it, it's greatquality but they were like we
can't compete with even our ownproducts on the shelf because
there are great brands thatenforce map, but they just
(18:25):
they're cheaper and um, sothey're like, how do I, how do
we navigate, having you know 50%of our herb wall being of this
one brand and you know, we knowthe qualities there, but they're
like $7 cheaper for the samething.
Um, yeah, and so, yeah, justtrying to figure out, you know,
do you go, do you lean into thatbrand more?
(18:49):
Because that's what customershave always purchased and that's
what their you know, that'swhat their wallets are liking is
, you know, an $8 herb asopposed to a $14 herb, just
things like that.
(19:09):
It's an interesting thing tokind of.
You always have to beevaluating what the needs of
your customers are and the needsof your business and, you know,
deciding whether or not youshould scale back with certain
brands that you do really wellwith and maybe push people more
towards the private label.
So it's a really interestingkind of problem that I think
retailers are having.
That needs to be addressed.
Jake Kiviko (19:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're absolutely right.
It is a hard.
It's ever changing, right whatyou should do with certain
brands, depending on whatthey've kind of done over time.
And so for something like that,I guess what would be most
important to me is how is thatother brand as a partner and you
know, if they're a good partnerand you feel like you're
(19:55):
getting good value from them andyou don't have any qualms about
how things are being soldonline or anything like that,
then I, you know, I would showthem my label and I would.
I would use what I think everyindependent retailer should use,
and that's education andknowledge and informing other
(20:15):
customers.
That's our best product.
That's what sets us apart fromyou know big box stores and
other major retailers, and if itdoesn't work out, it doesn't
work out.
Um, but if that partner is notsuch a good partner, then I
would maybe try and scale backand, you know, start with the
things that you're a little bitmore competitive on.
(20:36):
Scale back and just show peopleyeah, you know, we don't really
partner with that brand anymore.
Here's why we tell people whywe don't partner with brands and
a lot of times, they love thattransparency and they don't have
the same information that youhave as a store.
Um, what's going on behind thescenes with some of these brands
?
And so we're really, um, vocalabout some of these things and
(21:01):
the reasons why we choose not to, you know, really get behind a
certain brand or they made thesechanges that you know we don't
feel great about selling them toyou anymore.
And, uh, people love that, theylove that transparency, and so
they're very receptive to it.
They're like, oh my gosh, Ihave no idea.
Um, and those have been some ofthe best moments.
(21:22):
It's like showing people, ortelling people that, and just
how shocked they are, andimmediately they're like what?
Yeah, I'm with you guys, Idon't want to support that brand
either, if this is what they'redoing.
So I'll take this, you know,and yeah, so I think we should
use that I think we found that alot with different retailers
(21:43):
that we work with.
Tina Smith (21:44):
The more transparent you are with your audience, the
more they trust you around thatand they rally around you
because you're a local businessand they want to support you,
and now you're becoming theirauthority in this space, and so
I'd love to hear I think I'mhearing from you map and map
enforcement obviously is a keything to look at, but also I'm
(22:11):
betting that some of the thingsyou're talking about are changes
in formulations, orformulations being different in
a mass store versus yours and solosing confidence in that brand
because it looks the same tothe consumer but it's not
actually the same product to theconsumer, but it's not actually
the same product.
Jake Kiviko (22:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's something that people
do not not realize, um, and sowhen you tell them that, it just
really kind of I mean, what'smore, I guess, disheartening
than kind of hearing that, um,it's very deceptful, uh, and so
you kind of lose trust in thebrands that are doing that kind
of thing, and customers feel thesame way that you do, because
(22:52):
they don't want to feel deceived.
They want to feel like what theyknow what they're buying and
they know what they're getting,and so that's something that
that they don't like either, youknow.
Yeah, absolutely, Mapenforcement too.
Um, it's huge for us, justbecause it has become such an
(23:14):
online shopping world and, um,you know, you can offer things
online as well, but if you can'tbe competitive on price, then
you're going to lose those salesand and you may not realize it,
but it happens, and a lot oftimes you'll hear it.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times we've sold something
(23:36):
to a customer and they come inlike two months later and
they're like, yeah, don't getmad, but I saw it was $6 cheaper
on Amazon, so I bought it therelast time, and so we're just
really working to get away fromthose brands because it's just
not beneficial to the longevityand health of your business.
Tina Smith (23:55):
Just as a follow-up, I just am curious are there
other things that you guys arelooking at that are outside of
map enforcement and theformulation?
I'm sure there's a lit kind ofa checklist that you go through
and some of them have higherpriority, like you're talking
about, but there are probablyother things that you're looking
for in good partner brands aswell.
Jake Kiviko (24:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and where the product's being
sold is huge.
And also, you know what they'rekind of, I guess.
Where are they trying to gowith their brand?
Do they really want to be inthe independent stores?
Is that a market that theyvalue or, you know, is it
(24:38):
somewhere where they're justtrying to get more products
through the door, get theirnumbers up and potentially sell
later on?
And you can usually feel peopleout when you ask them questions
and really get behind some ofthe deeper things a brand is
offering.
Another thing that's importantto us is, you know, making sure
(25:02):
that, if they have a map policy,that it's something that you
know we can be competitive onand still have enough margin to
feel good about getting behindthe brand.
But yeah, those, those, thosethings.
Mainly, you know maps huge.
Where is the product being sold.
What is your plan with thisbrand?
(25:24):
Is it something that you knowyou're going to be getting our
backs as a partner, like for me,if we're going to create a
partnership and our store haslots of traffic every day and
we're really pushing your brandand building your brand in our
area, I want to know that youhave our back as well when
(25:45):
things you know, have our backas well.
Um, when things you know maybearen't great for us or we get
stuck with things, um, how areyou going to help us if, if
we're doing all the legwork toreally build your brand in our
area?
So just, I guess that that'sthe best way I can put it is
just making sure that I feellike the brand is somebody
that's going to really have yourback and be in the independent
(26:07):
market and not just kind ofusing the independent stores to
really build their brand andthen kind of jump ship and
forget about us, because thathappens a lot as well.
Amanda Ballard (26:20):
Sadly.
Yeah, Jake.
Do you guys price at MAP everyday?
Jake Kiviko (26:27):
We do.
Everything has to be a map Umand actually that's a.
That's another good question.
For me, the best partner that Icould possibly have is one that
I can price below map um andstill have a decent margin.
So that you know I our storesare the absolute best option for
(26:50):
the customer as far as pricegoes, and I know that's not
always realistic.
But you are seeing it with morebrands and I love that some of
the brands recently have startedto do full retail map.
I think that's a great strategyif you really want to get
behind the independent stores.
I am not naive.
(27:10):
I understand that Amazon isn'tjust a place that you're trying
to sell product.
It kind of gives your brandlegitimacy.
Nowadays, like, if you're noton Amazon, people are like, well
, who is?
this you know, um, and so Iunderstand that, but I I really
value the uh brands that aredoing full retail map on amazon
(27:32):
and really giving the stores achance to be competitive, and so
, um, yes, we price that map,but if we can be below map, even
better.
And those are the brands that Ireally like to get behind,
because then I know that when mycustomers can't come into the
store and they search on theirphone or they're in the aisle
(27:53):
searching on the phone.
They're like, wow, nature'sFinest is really giving us the
best price.
They're not ripping us off andthis is a place that really is
trying to be the best place toget my stuff be the best place
to get my stuff.
Tina Smith (28:13):
Sometimes we find retailers a little hesitant to
implement map pricing because itfeels like a big decrease to
them, and so the questionbecomes like, are we going to be
able to make payroll and do theinvestments that we need to do
to keep the store going?
But something that we've foundis when you do map pricing, the
volume ends up turning into thata bigger number than if you had
(28:38):
kept your margins.
I'm just curious if that's whatyou guys are seeing as well.
Jake Kiviko (28:43):
Absolutely 100% agree with that is you.
You know, whether you realizeit or not, if you're pricing at
full retail, you will be losingsales.
Um, no matter where you'relocated, it is so easy to shop
online and people are pricesensitive, you know.
You got to understand that.
I mean, think I I as a smallbusiness owner and I there's
(29:07):
nothing more than I love thansupporting other small
businesses.
But if I'm going to save 25percent on something and I don't
have to drive 20 minutes to getit, sometimes I'm going to
choose that option.
But if I know that that storeis pricing it the same way, I
will take the time to drivethere.
And and that says somebody whoreally values small, local
(29:30):
business A lot of people.
It doesn't mean much to them,they just want the best price.
So, yes, I absolutely agreewith what you're saying, tina.
I think you're going to see anuptick in volume if you can
price that map.
But then also, I think it'sreally imperative to create the
perception for a lot ofconsumers that stores are not
(29:54):
the.
A lot of times they think theycan't get anything at a good
price in a store.
Everything's cheaper online,and so when other stores are
pricing at retail.
I think you're helping toreally drive that home for
consumers and it hurts the otherstores that are trying to be
competitive.
It's kind of business 101 tosell the best products at the
(30:18):
best possible prices.
No-transcript.
(30:53):
So I get it, I totallyunderstand, but I I don't think
that we would even just evenconsider pricing above.
Map it just.
It wouldn't work for us, Idon't.
I don't think there's just toomany times that we're losing
sales if we do.
Amanda Ballard (31:18):
Yeah, well, I think it kind of brings it back
to that conversation we werehaving about transparency where,
you know, I I actually just sawthis post on LinkedIn the other
day and it was, uh, thiscompany ran a test to see it was
they were advertising theirchicken noodle soup, and one of
them was just a picture of abeautiful bowl of soup and it
was just you know, here you go,this is the soup.
(31:38):
And then the other one.
They listed out the price ofall of their cost of goods and
you know the labor and all ofthat, and it was like one had
the price of you know $7.99,.
But then the other one was likehere's really what it's costing
us, not just what we're gettingfrom you.
And the interesting thing wasthat the ad that had the prices
(32:02):
listed out line by line thechicken costs this, the carrots
cost this, and then it's like,oh, you're left with next to
nothing to pay your staff afteryou've sold us this bowl of soup
, and so I think it was just areally interesting lesson of
people appreciate transparencyand are able to be the same
(32:28):
price as Amazon or better, andyet we still offer you all of
these things.
Like having that conversation, Ithink, is really, really
powerful, and it's somethingthat I don't think that
retailers should shy away from.
Do it in a tactful way, ofcourse, but just do everything
that you can to show your valueover and over again.
Oh and, by the way, amazoncan't beat our prices.
(32:50):
They're worth the exact same,so why not support local?
Jake Kiviko (32:55):
Absolutely, and we are very vocal about that and
we'll let people know that,because I do think it's
important, like you said, andthat transparency is something.
I mean you don't know whatbusinesses costs are behind the
scenes, and so that ad is reallyinteresting because nobody
knows what goes into making abowl of soup, right, and so to
(33:17):
kind of see it and realize whatthey're being left with at the
end of the day, like thattransparency means something to
the consumer and so I love thatand we're very vocal about what
we offer above and beyond Amazonor other big box retailers.
Tina Smith (33:36):
Jake, I want to go back to something you were
talking about earlier, which wasjust this branding might take
the longest amount of time, andmoving from hey, you guys
decided to move forward and thenit's actually on your shelves.
But there are a lot of otheractivities that go into that as
well.
So I'm curious, like once youguys decided with some of these
other manufacturers, like we'reready, how long should a
(34:01):
retailer expect that thisprocess is going to take before
they have something on theirshelves?
Jake Kiviko (34:05):
Great question.
It depends on how quickly thelabel design process goes, and
if you have, you know, a logoand design, they're pretty quick
.
You know this is what they do,and so it depends.
There are some manufacturersthat want to order the labels
(34:27):
and then that takes time, andthen there's others that uh do
them in house.
So, depending on which, youknow, uh, what their process is,
I would say anywhere from.
If you have your label, it cantake.
You know they can.
They could have it to yourstore in a week and other times
it could be three, four weeks,but it's not just terribly long
(34:49):
process, as long as the labeldesign doesn't take you forever,
like it does for me.
My label design takes a monthsometimes just because I can't.
It's hard, you're your, you'reyour biggest critic and you get
labeled back and maybe otherpeople like it, but there's
something about it that just youdon't like and you want to
redesign and, uh, I'm sure thatI've been a pain for some of
(35:09):
these companies as far as thelabel design process has gone.
Tina Smith (35:13):
Yeah, I mean two to three months feels from the
minute that you're like, ok, wewant to do something, because
you've got to select theproducts and do the brand and
get everything in order beforeit starts going on your shelves,
which can be intimidatingbecause you're going to make an
investment before you start tosee a return and, at the same
(35:34):
time, I think it gives you areally nice long runway to start
talking about things andgetting people excited about it.
And when I say start talkingabout things, I mean socializing
it with people that are comingin the door and also making
plans for, okay, we're going tohave email blasts and do some
advertising around it and putsome posters up, because all of
that will take you time as wellto get that going.
(35:56):
So, even though I'm sure thelabel design and everything is
going to keep some of thoseactivities from actually being
executed, the planning and thecopy and all of that can go into
effect before and then youstart putting the design into
place right there as you'regetting ready to put the things
(36:18):
on your shelves.
So it feels like, even thoughyou might want it to happen
faster, it's probably the righttimeline in order to get a
really good plan laid out forcommunication and execution.
Jake Kiviko (36:38):
Absolutely.
And this is you know if you'regoing to get it, if private
label is going to be what itshould be to you and the brand
that you really get behind, andthat you know when your customer
is coming and looking forsomething, you want to show them
your brand and your label, sothat you know you create that
customer loyalty and it becomesa really great brand in your
store.
Then you shouldn't rush things.
(36:59):
You want to take your time withit, you want to make sure
things are done right and, yes,it's exciting to know that
you're going to be taking thatstep.
But take the time to make surethat you know you're not making
any mistakes along the way, andI think you've made a great
point.
Um, you know, once you kind ofknow that you're going to be
(37:19):
moving forward with that, tellyour customers you know they're
looking for something.
Oh, by the way, I've got areally awesome magnesium
glycinate we're working onthat's going to be coming in.
Um, you know, pretty shortly.
I'd love to show it to you nexttime, but you know here's an
option for now, or or whatever.
But, yeah, definitely use thetime to to build awareness and
(37:39):
build excitement behind thebrands.
Tina Smith (37:42):
Yeah, and there's a story that goes behind that too.
So whether you're doing a brandreplacement or this is just an
addition to your current lineup,there's a reason why you're
doing it that you cancommunicate to your consumer
ahead of time so that they'reexcited about this launch and
release, and I'm going to betthat will make all the
difference in how quickly thistakes off and people start to
(38:05):
use that brand versus somethingelse.
So it could be the story ofthis is a better formulation
than anything we've got in thestore.
Or it could be the story ofthis is a better formulation
than anything we've got in thestore.
Or it could be a story of we'removing away from this partner
for the following reasons, andso we just decided, if we're
going to trust it and put ourname behind it, that we were
going to research it and findthe best thing and bring it to
(38:25):
you, and there's a lot of waysto message that in a story
format that people can gravitateto and really become part of
that with you and rally aroundthat.
Jake Kiviko (38:37):
Absolutely, and I like how you just said that,
because I do think that it'simportant to vocalize that to
your customers that you knowthis wasn't just something that
we threw our name on and put onthe shelf.
That we threw our name on andput on the shelf, we took the
time to really make sure that,if we were going to put our name
on something, that it wassomething that we felt really,
(38:57):
really good about, um, and thatwe think is going to be the best
option for you.
Um, it's not just a cheap housebrand.
This is something that we tookthe time and we, you know we've
been in business 43 years, butwe just put our name on
something.
And you know, maybe've been inbusiness 43 years, but we just
put our name on something andyou know, maybe use that if you
had longevity and say the reasonis is because you know we
(39:18):
didn't find the right partneruntil right now and we feel
really good about this and it'ssomething that we're super
excited about and we can't waitto show you guys.
Amanda Ballard (39:27):
Yeah, and I think, whether it's private
label or just any brand thatyou're bringing in to the for
the first time, it's like everysquare inch of your store is
valuable and so if you thinkenough about a product to give
it, you know, three inches onthe shelf, it's like that's
something that's worth talkingabout and communicating to your
(39:48):
customers.
That, hey, like we do ourhomework around here and we're
not just going to let any otherproduct just get on the shelf,
like we genuinely take the timeto look at every single product
and make sure that it's the bestthing that we can possibly
offer you.
So, yeah, like I said, whetherit's whether it's a private
(40:10):
label or another brand that youbelieve in, like communicate it.
Um, because that's what's goingto make, again, differentiate
you from from your competition.
Jake Kiviko (40:22):
Absolutely.
I mean, you got to feel goodabout what's on your shelves and
what you're offering to peopleand if you do and you take that
time, you should be absolutelytelling people about it and and
they trust you.
You know, I listened to anotherone of your guys shows where
somebody said like we need to bethe influencers in our
communities, and I think that'sexactly what the independent
(40:44):
retailer should be and what wealready are without realizing it
, Because most of the time, thecustomers that come through your
doors are there because theytrust what you have to say and
what you have to tell them.
So definitely make sure thatyou are doing your homework and
that you feel good behind thebrands that you're representing
and that you know that you'reoffering the best options for
(41:07):
the people that you serve.
Tina Smith (41:10):
Okay, we're coming to the end of our time here, but
I do want to ask one otherquestion, because, just to set
expectations, once you do rollout a new brand, even if you're
doing all the right thingsleading up to it, there is a
time period in which it's newand you're transitioning, and it
might not be successful in twodays or five days or 10 days.
(41:33):
So I'm curious, like for youguys how long did you give it
before you started saying, wow,this is really working.
Jake Kiviko (41:42):
Great question.
So, first and foremost, wehaven't touched on make sure
that all of your staffunderstand why it is that you're
doing this and that this shouldbe, you know, theoretically,
the first thing that we showcustomers, and this is why, and
so that will help.
And the times that you can't doit and you know everybody in
(42:04):
your store is really gettingbehind the brand, then I think
it's going to be a little bitmore beneficial and quicker for
you.
But I think we noticed, youknow, fairly, you know, our most
recent one was fairly quickthat we were like, wow, this is,
this is really taking off.
We made, we made sure to givethe most recent one very good
(42:27):
product placement as well.
We put it right at the front ofthe store.
We wanted it to be the firstthing that people saw.
So I think that's another greatstrategy when you're going to
take this jump, to maybe makesure that you place it well so
that people see it and they askquestions about it.
But, um, some of the other onestake time and I would just say
(42:47):
hang in there, you know, doeverything you can and, um, I
don't think that we've ever hadone that we had to say, ok,
we're not going to do thisanymore, but some of them do
take longer than others and Ithink you just want to make sure
that you do everything you canon your part as far as product
placement, staff education andjust getting the entire store
(43:11):
and behind the brand.
But it just depends.
Just hang in there and and havefaith.
If you really believe in theproducts and you're conveying
that to customers, it will mostlikely work out for you.
Tina Smith (43:27):
So lots of ways to make this faster, a faster ROI
for you.
One is making sure that you'retaking the time to do things
right.
Another thing is you'retraining your staff on why are
we doing this and that they canbelieve in the product good
(43:52):
product placement and you have agreat messaging strategy going
in that you're communicating tocustomers as well, and I think
if you do those four things,you're going to succeed faster
than if you don't do them, eventhough the private label should
generate an ROI within a timeperiod if you stick with it.
So if you're launching todayand you haven't done all those
things, start doing them, itwill make it better for you.
(44:14):
I don't think that it won'tsucceed if you haven't done them
before, but if you do thembefore, I think it's going to be
just a smoother and fastertransition.
Jake Kiviko (44:25):
Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that.
And you, another thing you needto realize with your brand or
private labels that you don'thave, like the marketing team
and budget that some of thesebrands do to, um, you know, do
advertising and get their nameout there.
It it falls on you and yourstaff and that's okay.
I mean you're spending timebuilding other brands anyways,
(44:46):
why not put that time into yourown?
And those four things youmentioned, tina um, absolutely,
what you, what you need to doand, um, you will see a good
return on it.
I wouldn't.
I would tell people that areworried or scared about jumping
into private label to not be um,it can be a really good thing
(45:08):
for your store and if you put inthe work and you start to see
the returns, there's no betterbrand to represent than your own
.
Amanda Ballard (45:19):
Awesome.
Well, Jake, thank you so muchfor your time with us today.
If listeners want to learn moreabout your store, how can they
find you?
Jake Kiviko (45:28):
Yeah, you can find us online at naturesfinestazcom
or on Instagram atnaturesfinestaz.
We do a lot on there as well,so I want to thank you guys too
for having me.
It's a lot of fun.
Amanda Ballard (45:42):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (45:53):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
So we're very particular in the brands that we
partner with.
I think it's very important forindependent stores especially
to partner with the right brandsthese days, and there's not a
lot of them that are truly goodpartners anymore.
Tina Smith (00:18):
Welcome to the Natural Products Marketer
Podcast.
I'm Tina and.
Amanda Ballard (00:23):
I'm Amanda and we're here to make marketing
easier for natural productsbusinesses, so you can reach
more people and change morelives.
All right, welcome back to theNatural Products Marketer
Podcast.
We are super excited to bejoined by Jake Kivico of
Nature's Finest in the Phoenixarea.
(00:43):
Thanks for joining us today,jake.
Jake Kiviko (00:46):
Thank you, guys.
I'm glad to be here.
Amanda Ballard (00:48):
So we love to ask our guests um, because most
people don't grow up thinking Iwant to work in health food
stores Um, what got you into theindustry?
And maybe, maybe, you did wantto grow up and work in a health
food store, so we'd love to hearyour story.
Jake Kiviko (01:04):
Yeah, no, that's it .
That's a great question.
So I'm a third generation.
My family started our businessback in the 80s.
My grandparents actuallystarted the store, so then we
moved to Arizona from theIllinois area.
My dad got involved and so Ikind of grew up in these stores.
You know helping price things,doing things as a little kid
(01:27):
around the store and just seeinghow my dad did his work and you
know enjoying watching him dowhat he did.
But I didn't think I was goingto work in these stores, and
what happened was it was alittle bit after the pandemic my
dad was really adamant about,you know, retail is a demanding
job, so he didn't want to feellike he pushed any of us to do
(01:52):
what he did.
He knew that he lost a lot oftime with his family doing
retail and so he kind of wantedus to find our own way, and so
that's what I did.
I did a lot of different thingsand then, around 2021, I had a
conversation with my dad and wewere just kind of talking about
the business and you know someof the challenges that he was
(02:15):
facing today, you know, with thecompetition of Amazon after the
pandemic, after the pandemic,and so I we started talking
about what we could do with, youknow, maybe getting online and
becoming more omni-channel, andthat's kind of how I got
involved.
So I came to work full-timearound 2021 and um started with
(02:39):
the website uh, which we, youknow, got a lot of products on
there and started catering toour customers and allowing them
to order online, but found outthat that's also a very
challenging environment and it'svery competitive and so, you
know, started there, but thenreally got involved in the store
(03:00):
and really enjoyed the businessside of things and negotiating
things with brands and findingthe right partners, and I've
been here ever since.
Tina Smith (03:12):
Yeah, that's amazing .
We hear a lot of that thechallenge of competing against
Amazon online.
And you're right.
Especially after the pandemic,it became really easy to just go
to Amazon to get some of yoursupplements.
So what do you think helps youguys?
Stand out, your store, standout so that people aren't
(03:35):
running to Amazon.
They're coming to you becausethey can't find it on Amazon.
Jake Kiviko (03:41):
Yeah, so we're very particular in the brands that
we partner with.
I think it's very important forindependent stores especially
to partner with the right brandsthese days and there's not a
lot of them that are truly goodpartners anymore pricing is
(04:05):
absolutely the first thing thatwe look at when we talk to a
brand about bringing theirproducts in.
If there's not a good mappolicy in place and then, most
importantly, that's actuallypoliced, it's not really
something that we're interestedin getting our hands in.
Just because how many times doyou have a customer come and you
show them this great product,you recommend it to them and
(04:25):
then, the day that they don'twant to drive into the store,
they go to Amazon and see thatthey can get it cheaper.
It's really disheartening andit's hard to compete with that.
So we work really hard topartner with the right brands,
make sure that we can be at mapand be the best price and then
also just being a store that caneducate and help customers find
(04:48):
what they want to find and helpinform them on things.
Amanda Ballard (04:52):
So, jake, we had a conversation before we
started this recording where youwere telling us about how you
guys use private label to helpdifferentiate from the product
selection on Amazon.
So I'd love to kind of justdeep dive into your private
label strategy because I thinkit's really unique from what
(05:14):
I've heard from stores aroundthe country.
So I'd love to kind of justhear from your side of things
what your private label lookslike and how you guys do that
differently than other stores.
Jake Kiviko (05:27):
Yeah, so we're really big into private label.
There's a couple of reasonsthat I like private label a lot.
One of them is it createscustomer loyalty right, if you
have a product.
So let me, let me start over.
I can't speak on other stores,but for us, most of the time
when a customer comes into thestore, they're asking you for a
(05:49):
particular uh supplement, butthey don't necessarily mention a
brand name.
They want vitamin c ormagnesium, but they don't really
have a brand that they'relooking for.
It's not very often that theywant a specific brand.
So so for us it became a goodstrategy to kind of have private
label brands that we had tooffer that we felt were really
(06:13):
good products.
We partnered with privatelabelers that we felt made an
amazing product that competedwith some of the bigger brands
out there and this way when acustomer comes in looking for
something, we can offer them aprivate label product that we
have and then it creates thatcustomer loyalty that the
customer likes it.
They have no other place to getthat product other than in your
(06:36):
store.
It allows you to kind of havecontrol over the brand, because
how many times do you spendcountless hours and visits
building a brand with customersand then you know, years down
the road something happens withthat brand and you have a lot of
eggs in that basket and they'reno longer a good partner for
(06:58):
you.
That happens a lot and it getsreally discouraging.
So with private label, you kindof a lot and it gets really
discouraging.
So with private label you kindof, um, don't have that risk of
those kinds of things happening,you have control over your
brand and, uh, the products andthe pricing and all those things
.
But, um, we use a coupledifferent partners for that.
(07:21):
I think a lot of stores usuallyhave their private label brand
that has their store name on it,and we also do that.
But there's the three bigprivate labelers that I think a
lot of independent stores know,uh, which would be Vitality,
reliance and Vitamer.
Those ones are really easy towork with, they're really good,
(07:42):
they make great products andthey're just.
They don't have high orderminimums or anything like that.
So we work with those guys.
But sometimes there's overlap.
You know all three of themmight make the same product.
So for us we went ahead and didthree different brands with each
(08:02):
partner, and so that allows usto have our nature's finest
brand.
You know, that is usually whatwe'll show people, um, but
there's also that misconceptionsometimes that a house brand
isn't really the highest qualityproduct on the shelf, and so
having those other brands thatmaybe aren't tied to our name
(08:25):
allows us to have other optionsfor people that may, you know,
be feeling that way, although Itotally disagree with it.
I think our house brand is theone that we've felt was the best
partner with the best trademarkingredients, and we try and
inform customers of that.
But there is that misconceptionout there sometimes, so we have
(08:45):
other options for them, um, andso that's kind of what we've
done and it's been a really goodstrategy for us.
But, like I said, just creatingthat customer loyalty has been
awesome, because they can't gohome if they really like that
product and one day they don'twant to drive into the store and
they go to search on Amazon,it's not there, the only place
they can't go home if theyreally like that product.
And one day they don't want todrive into the store and they go
(09:05):
to search on Amazon, it's notthere.
The only place they can get itis in your store.
So I think private label issomething that other independent
retailers should really belooking at, because it's a
really good strategy.
It's been beneficial for us.
Tina Smith (09:22):
And Jake, when did you guys start doing your
private label?
Jake Kiviko (09:27):
That's a good question.
So, um, we started withVitality long before I got here,
and then Vitamer as well, butrecently we did Reliance.
And then we do have a coupleother private label partners
that are like more local, uh,smaller than you know, ones that
we sought out but maybe that umhave higher order minimums and
(09:52):
things like that, uh, that otherstores you know don't have easy
access to.
But we're always looking toexpand private label if there's
a good option and a good partner.
We enjoy doing that.
People like variety.
It's not like you have one formof magnesium on the shelf, you
(10:13):
have a couple options so thatcustomers can pick one, and so
why not have a couple of privatelabel options where you do have
that customer loyalty andcontrol over the brand?
Tina Smith (10:31):
Yeah, and when you guys were getting into it, did
you start with a few products,like you named vitamin C,
vitamin D initially, or was itlike, hey, we want all essential
oils, all of these categories?
Jake Kiviko (10:43):
Yeah, good question .
I think when we first startedwe did go pretty heavy with it
and that one was Vitality Workswhich, if anybody's familiar,
they, I believe, have a highbuy-in, like they want you to
kind of really buy into it andthey have a certain amount of
products that they want you tostart with, and so that can be
(11:04):
scary to people.
Um, again, I wasn't involved inthat decision but talking uh to
my father about it, he did tellme that that was a concern of
his at the time because theywanted you to to really get so
many items on the shelf.
And that was their firstventure into private label.
Um, and he went ahead and didthat and we did the uh essential
(11:25):
oils and they have all sorts ofherbs and tinctures and we
really bought into it.
And then, uh, as we saw itsucceed, we've kind of expanded
it.
And then with the other ones,uh no, we didn't go go crazy
with it, we just did a coupleitems, kind of tried to see how
they crazy with it.
(11:47):
We just did a couple items,kind of tried to see how they
resonated with customers andonce we saw that they were
something that people wereenjoying, then we continued to
expand it.
And once we saw that thatstrategy was working for us, we
said why are we not offeringeverything in our label?
Amanda Ballard (12:01):
So are you with with those?
I know you said you have youryour nature's finest brand, and
then these other brands that arestill private label, but are um
not under your name.
How have you found um customersreceive those products?
Um is, is it the same kind ofreception that they they get
towards your house brand or umare they like?
(12:24):
Oh, maybe.
I've never heard of this Kindof.
What sort of feedback do youget from customers with the
non-name brand items?
Jake Kiviko (12:34):
That's a really good question.
You know, I think a lot oftimes when a customer comes into
your store, they're looking foryour advice and expertise
already.
Um, like I mentioned, I don'thave and I can't speak for other
stores, but there's not a lotof people that come in and they
want magnesium from a certainbrand.
It just isn't something thathappens with us a lot and if it
(12:55):
does, it's usually a brand thatwe recommended to them, you know
, previously, and they've justcontinued to take it.
So we haven't seen any kind of,I guess, like pushback when we
show them brands that we'vecreated that they don't really
recognize.
They sometimes ask questionsabout you know where it's made
(13:19):
and you know who is this brand,and we're transparent with
customers as well.
You don't want to deceive themin any way, so we do tell them
if they ask that, yeah, this isa brand that you know, we've
partnered with this company tocreate and it's one that we
really stand behind and think isa great product and it would be
(13:41):
a great option for you.
Tina Smith (13:44):
Yeah, I'm curious about the branding around this,
because that is one thing thatcomes up.
There's so many decisions to bemade whenever you go into
private label and branding is abig piece of it, and especially
if it's not your house brand.
So there really aren't.
There's not a design alreadyaround the logo, and there's a
lot to create there.
So I'm curious, when you guyswere going into these multiple
(14:07):
brands, was there a thought likethis this brand should look
high end and did you contractwith a marketing firm to help
you?
Or were you guys just like, oh,we can do this, we can fix this
, or the manufacturing partnerwas helpful?
I'd love to hear more aboutthat.
Jake Kiviko (14:24):
Yeah, it's definitely the most difficult
part of the process, especiallyfor me.
I hate creating labels.
I'm not good at it, it's not myforte, and so that process can
be really lengthy for us.
Sometimes, you know, we think,oh yeah, you know, let's go with
this color and and this brandname and this logo, and then we
(14:45):
have the uh they're.
They're usually really helpful.
They have people in house thatwill listen to you and design
the labels and they send it backand it's like you had this
vision and it comes back and itlooks nothing like what you had
hoped for, and a large part ofthe time it's because of the way
that we're communicating it oryou're just seeing in your head
(15:06):
and it's.
It's a very difficult process.
It's my least favorite part,for sure.
But to answer your questionabout like higher end and things
like that, yes, we have kind ofdone that with a couple of the
brands.
A couple of the brands, likeone of the Vitamer makes all
(15:27):
their stuff in glass bottles,which you know people tend to
associate with a higher brand.
That's not plastic, and so forthat one we really spent a lot
of time kind of making it ahigher end, luxury looking label
and it turned out excellent andso, like that kind of, is that
higher end brand for us, I guess?
(15:47):
Um, and it'll look a little bitmore higher end to some of the
other ones that are in plasticand and that kind of thing.
And then other times it's justyou know what.
It's hard enough to come upwith a name and another logo and
and once you do you're justhappy with it and you go with it
and um, but yeah, there is somedifferentiation between a
(16:10):
couple of the manufacturers andand higher end and maybe house
brand and that kind of thing.
Tina Smith (16:18):
Yeah, it's nice to hear um some strategy around if
you're bringing in multiplebrands that are kind of they
there are house brands wheneveryou're doing private label, in
spite of the fact that theymight not have your logo on it.
So you know, a lot of times wehear in retail there's um the
three categories that you dohigh, medium, low and so I'm
(16:42):
curious, like from a pricingperspective, where did you guys
shake out?
Is your house brand thecheapest, and then how does that
affect your margin?
Jake Kiviko (16:54):
It's a good question.
I wouldn't say it's thecheapest, I would say it's
competitive, and that's anotherthing.
That's important to us is, youknow, we do know that customers
are price sensitive, and so wereally kind of evaluate whether
or not we can be competitivewith some of the pricing of,
like, the bigger brands and andthat kind of thing, and so we
(17:17):
try and be as competitive aspossible.
And, um to your point, I dothink that between manufacturers
that we're working with, thereis kind of like a low, mid and
high price point, and it justdepends on what they're offering
as far as pricing and what youfeel like you can offer the
product at and still make yourmargin.
(17:38):
So as far as that, I thinkwe're very competitive.
I don't think we're thecheapest option, but there is,
you know.
Then we have a line that tendsto be a little bit lower in
price and that can be our lowprice option.
It's just it depends on whichbrand or private label product
(18:00):
that we're talking about.
Amanda Ballard (18:02):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I was just talking with a storewe work with the other day and
they were kind of frustrated bythe fact that their private
label they love it, it's greatquality but they were like we
can't compete with even our ownproducts on the shelf because
there are great brands thatenforce map, but they just
(18:25):
they're cheaper and um, sothey're like, how do I, how do
we navigate, having you know 50%of our herb wall being of this
one brand and you know, we knowthe qualities there, but they're
like $7 cheaper for the samething.
Um, yeah, and so, yeah, justtrying to figure out, you know,
do you go, do you lean into thatbrand more?
(18:49):
Because that's what customershave always purchased and that's
what their you know, that'swhat their wallets are liking is
, you know, an $8 herb asopposed to a $14 herb, just
things like that.
(19:09):
It's an interesting thing tokind of.
You always have to beevaluating what the needs of
your customers are and the needsof your business and, you know,
deciding whether or not youshould scale back with certain
brands that you do really wellwith and maybe push people more
towards the private label.
So it's a really interestingkind of problem that I think
retailers are having.
That needs to be addressed.
Jake Kiviko (19:31):
Yeah, absolutely, and you're absolutely right.
It is a hard.
It's ever changing, right whatyou should do with certain
brands, depending on whatthey've kind of done over time.
And so for something like that,I guess what would be most
important to me is how is thatother brand as a partner and you
know, if they're a good partnerand you feel like you're
(19:55):
getting good value from them andyou don't have any qualms about
how things are being soldonline or anything like that,
then I, you know, I would showthem my label and I would.
I would use what I think everyindependent retailer should use,
and that's education andknowledge and informing other
(20:15):
customers.
That's our best product.
That's what sets us apart fromyou know big box stores and
other major retailers, and if itdoesn't work out, it doesn't
work out.
Um, but if that partner is notsuch a good partner, then I
would maybe try and scale backand, you know, start with the
things that you're a little bitmore competitive on.
(20:36):
Scale back and just show peopleyeah, you know, we don't really
partner with that brand anymore.
Here's why we tell people whywe don't partner with brands and
a lot of times, they love thattransparency and they don't have
the same information that youhave as a store.
Um, what's going on behind thescenes with some of these brands
?
And so we're really, um, vocalabout some of these things and
(21:01):
the reasons why we choose not to, you know, really get behind a
certain brand or they made thesechanges that you know we don't
feel great about selling them toyou anymore.
And, uh, people love that, theylove that transparency, and so
they're very receptive to it.
They're like, oh my gosh, Ihave no idea.
Um, and those have been some ofthe best moments.
(21:22):
It's like showing people, ortelling people that, and just
how shocked they are, andimmediately they're like what?
Yeah, I'm with you guys, Idon't want to support that brand
either, if this is what they'redoing.
So I'll take this, you know,and yeah, so I think we should
use that I think we found that alot with different retailers
(21:43):
that we work with.
Tina Smith (21:44):
The more transparent you are with your audience, the
more they trust you around thatand they rally around you
because you're a local businessand they want to support you,
and now you're becoming theirauthority in this space, and so
I'd love to hear I think I'mhearing from you map and map
enforcement obviously is a keything to look at, but also I'm
(22:11):
betting that some of the thingsyou're talking about are changes
in formulations, orformulations being different in
a mass store versus yours and solosing confidence in that brand
because it looks the same tothe consumer but it's not
actually the same product to theconsumer, but it's not actually
the same product.
Jake Kiviko (22:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's something that people
do not not realize, um, and sowhen you tell them that, it just
really kind of I mean, what'smore, I guess, disheartening
than kind of hearing that, um,it's very deceptful, uh, and so
you kind of lose trust in thebrands that are doing that kind
of thing, and customers feel thesame way that you do, because
(22:52):
they don't want to feel deceived.
They want to feel like what theyknow what they're buying and
they know what they're getting,and so that's something that
that they don't like either, youknow.
Yeah, absolutely, Mapenforcement too.
Um, it's huge for us, justbecause it has become such an
(23:14):
online shopping world and, um,you know, you can offer things
online as well, but if you can'tbe competitive on price, then
you're going to lose those salesand and you may not realize it,
but it happens, and a lot oftimes you'll hear it.
I mean, I can't tell you howmany times we've sold something
(23:36):
to a customer and they come inlike two months later and
they're like, yeah, don't getmad, but I saw it was $6 cheaper
on Amazon, so I bought it therelast time, and so we're just
really working to get away fromthose brands because it's just
not beneficial to the longevityand health of your business.
Tina Smith (23:55):
Just as a follow-up, I just am curious are there
other things that you guys arelooking at that are outside of
map enforcement and theformulation?
I'm sure there's a lit kind ofa checklist that you go through
and some of them have higherpriority, like you're talking
about, but there are probablyother things that you're looking
for in good partner brands aswell.
Jake Kiviko (24:16):
Yeah, absolutely, and where the product's being
sold is huge.
And also, you know what they'rekind of, I guess.
Where are they trying to gowith their brand?
Do they really want to be inthe independent stores?
Is that a market that theyvalue or, you know, is it
(24:38):
somewhere where they're justtrying to get more products
through the door, get theirnumbers up and potentially sell
later on?
And you can usually feel peopleout when you ask them questions
and really get behind some ofthe deeper things a brand is
offering.
Another thing that's importantto us is, you know, making sure
(25:02):
that, if they have a map policy,that it's something that you
know we can be competitive onand still have enough margin to
feel good about getting behindthe brand.
But yeah, those, those, thosethings.
Mainly, you know maps huge.
Where is the product being sold.
What is your plan with thisbrand?
(25:24):
Is it something that you knowyou're going to be getting our
backs as a partner, like for me,if we're going to create a
partnership and our store haslots of traffic every day and
we're really pushing your brandand building your brand in our
area, I want to know that youhave our back as well when
(25:45):
things you know, have our backas well.
Um, when things you know maybearen't great for us or we get
stuck with things, um, how areyou going to help us if, if
we're doing all the legwork toreally build your brand in our
area?
So just, I guess that that'sthe best way I can put it is
just making sure that I feellike the brand is somebody
that's going to really have yourback and be in the independent
(26:07):
market and not just kind ofusing the independent stores to
really build their brand andthen kind of jump ship and
forget about us, because thathappens a lot as well.
Amanda Ballard (26:20):
Sadly.
Yeah, Jake.
Do you guys price at MAP everyday?
Jake Kiviko (26:27):
We do.
Everything has to be a map Umand actually that's a.
That's another good question.
For me, the best partner that Icould possibly have is one that
I can price below map um andstill have a decent margin.
So that you know I our storesare the absolute best option for
(26:50):
the customer as far as pricegoes, and I know that's not
always realistic.
But you are seeing it with morebrands and I love that some of
the brands recently have startedto do full retail map.
I think that's a great strategyif you really want to get
behind the independent stores.
I am not naive.
(27:10):
I understand that Amazon isn'tjust a place that you're trying
to sell product.
It kind of gives your brandlegitimacy.
Nowadays, like, if you're noton Amazon, people are like, well
, who is?
this you know, um, and so Iunderstand that, but I I really
value the uh brands that aredoing full retail map on amazon
(27:32):
and really giving the stores achance to be competitive, and so
, um, yes, we price that map,but if we can be below map, even
better.
And those are the brands that Ireally like to get behind,
because then I know that when mycustomers can't come into the
store and they search on theirphone or they're in the aisle
(27:53):
searching on the phone.
They're like, wow, nature'sFinest is really giving us the
best price.
They're not ripping us off andthis is a place that really is
trying to be the best place toget my stuff be the best place
to get my stuff.
Tina Smith (28:13):
Sometimes we find retailers a little hesitant to
implement map pricing because itfeels like a big decrease to
them, and so the questionbecomes like, are we going to be
able to make payroll and do theinvestments that we need to do
to keep the store going?
But something that we've foundis when you do map pricing, the
volume ends up turning into thata bigger number than if you had
(28:38):
kept your margins.
I'm just curious if that's whatyou guys are seeing as well.
Jake Kiviko (28:43):
Absolutely 100% agree with that is you.
You know, whether you realizeit or not, if you're pricing at
full retail, you will be losingsales.
Um, no matter where you'relocated, it is so easy to shop
online and people are pricesensitive, you know.
You got to understand that.
I mean, think I I as a smallbusiness owner and I there's
(29:07):
nothing more than I love thansupporting other small
businesses.
But if I'm going to save 25percent on something and I don't
have to drive 20 minutes to getit, sometimes I'm going to
choose that option.
But if I know that that storeis pricing it the same way, I
will take the time to drivethere.
And and that says somebody whoreally values small, local
(29:30):
business A lot of people.
It doesn't mean much to them,they just want the best price.
So, yes, I absolutely agreewith what you're saying, tina.
I think you're going to see anuptick in volume if you can
price that map.
But then also, I think it'sreally imperative to create the
perception for a lot ofconsumers that stores are not
(29:54):
the.
A lot of times they think theycan't get anything at a good
price in a store.
Everything's cheaper online,and so when other stores are
pricing at retail.
I think you're helping toreally drive that home for
consumers and it hurts the otherstores that are trying to be
competitive.
It's kind of business 101 tosell the best products at the
(30:18):
best possible prices.
No-transcript.
(30:53):
So I get it, I totallyunderstand, but I I don't think
that we would even just evenconsider pricing above.
Map it just.
It wouldn't work for us, Idon't.
I don't think there's just toomany times that we're losing
sales if we do.
Amanda Ballard (31:18):
Yeah, well, I think it kind of brings it back
to that conversation we werehaving about transparency where,
you know, I I actually just sawthis post on LinkedIn the other
day and it was, uh, thiscompany ran a test to see it was
they were advertising theirchicken noodle soup, and one of
them was just a picture of abeautiful bowl of soup and it
was just you know, here you go,this is the soup.
(31:38):
And then the other one.
They listed out the price ofall of their cost of goods and
you know the labor and all ofthat, and it was like one had
the price of you know $7.99,.
But then the other one was likehere's really what it's costing
us, not just what we're gettingfrom you.
And the interesting thing wasthat the ad that had the prices
(32:02):
listed out line by line thechicken costs this, the carrots
cost this, and then it's like,oh, you're left with next to
nothing to pay your staff afteryou've sold us this bowl of soup
, and so I think it was just areally interesting lesson of
people appreciate transparencyand are able to be the same
(32:28):
price as Amazon or better, andyet we still offer you all of
these things.
Like having that conversation, Ithink, is really, really
powerful, and it's somethingthat I don't think that
retailers should shy away from.
Do it in a tactful way, ofcourse, but just do everything
that you can to show your valueover and over again.
Oh and, by the way, amazoncan't beat our prices.
(32:50):
They're worth the exact same,so why not support local?
Jake Kiviko (32:55):
Absolutely, and we are very vocal about that and
we'll let people know that,because I do think it's
important, like you said, andthat transparency is something.
I mean you don't know whatbusinesses costs are behind the
scenes, and so that ad is reallyinteresting because nobody
knows what goes into making abowl of soup, right, and so to
(33:17):
kind of see it and realize whatthey're being left with at the
end of the day, like thattransparency means something to
the consumer and so I love thatand we're very vocal about what
we offer above and beyond Amazonor other big box retailers.
Tina Smith (33:36):
Jake, I want to go back to something you were
talking about earlier, which wasjust this branding might take
the longest amount of time, andmoving from hey, you guys
decided to move forward and thenit's actually on your shelves.
But there are a lot of otheractivities that go into that as
well.
So I'm curious, like once youguys decided with some of these
other manufacturers, like we'reready, how long should a
(34:01):
retailer expect that thisprocess is going to take before
they have something on theirshelves?
Jake Kiviko (34:05):
Great question.
It depends on how quickly thelabel design process goes, and
if you have, you know, a logoand design, they're pretty quick
.
You know this is what they do,and so it depends.
There are some manufacturersthat want to order the labels
(34:27):
and then that takes time, andthen there's others that uh do
them in house.
So, depending on which, youknow, uh, what their process is,
I would say anywhere from.
If you have your label, it cantake.
You know they can.
They could have it to yourstore in a week and other times
it could be three, four weeks,but it's not just terribly long
(34:49):
process, as long as the labeldesign doesn't take you forever,
like it does for me.
My label design takes a monthsometimes just because I can't.
It's hard, you're your, you'reyour biggest critic and you get
labeled back and maybe otherpeople like it, but there's
something about it that just youdon't like and you want to
redesign and, uh, I'm sure thatI've been a pain for some of
(35:09):
these companies as far as thelabel design process has gone.
Tina Smith (35:13):
Yeah, I mean two to three months feels from the
minute that you're like, ok, wewant to do something, because
you've got to select theproducts and do the brand and
get everything in order beforeit starts going on your shelves,
which can be intimidatingbecause you're going to make an
investment before you start tosee a return and, at the same
(35:34):
time, I think it gives you areally nice long runway to start
talking about things andgetting people excited about it.
And when I say start talkingabout things, I mean socializing
it with people that are comingin the door and also making
plans for, okay, we're going tohave email blasts and do some
advertising around it and putsome posters up, because all of
that will take you time as wellto get that going.
(35:56):
So, even though I'm sure thelabel design and everything is
going to keep some of thoseactivities from actually being
executed, the planning and thecopy and all of that can go into
effect before and then youstart putting the design into
place right there as you'regetting ready to put the things
(36:18):
on your shelves.
So it feels like, even thoughyou might want it to happen
faster, it's probably the righttimeline in order to get a
really good plan laid out forcommunication and execution.
Jake Kiviko (36:38):
Absolutely.
And this is you know if you'regoing to get it, if private
label is going to be what itshould be to you and the brand
that you really get behind, andthat you know when your customer
is coming and looking forsomething, you want to show them
your brand and your label, sothat you know you create that
customer loyalty and it becomesa really great brand in your
store.
Then you shouldn't rush things.
(36:59):
You want to take your time withit, you want to make sure
things are done right and, yes,it's exciting to know that
you're going to be taking thatstep.
But take the time to make surethat you know you're not making
any mistakes along the way, andI think you've made a great
point.
Um, you know, once you kind ofknow that you're going to be
(37:19):
moving forward with that, tellyour customers you know they're
looking for something.
Oh, by the way, I've got areally awesome magnesium
glycinate we're working onthat's going to be coming in.
Um, you know, pretty shortly.
I'd love to show it to you nexttime, but you know here's an
option for now, or or whatever.
But, yeah, definitely use thetime to to build awareness and
(37:39):
build excitement behind thebrands.
Tina Smith (37:42):
Yeah, and there's a story that goes behind that too.
So whether you're doing a brandreplacement or this is just an
addition to your current lineup,there's a reason why you're
doing it that you cancommunicate to your consumer
ahead of time so that they'reexcited about this launch and
release, and I'm going to betthat will make all the
difference in how quickly thistakes off and people start to
(38:05):
use that brand versus somethingelse.
So it could be the story ofthis is a better formulation
than anything we've got in thestore.
Or it could be the story ofthis is a better formulation
than anything we've got in thestore.
Or it could be a story of we'removing away from this partner
for the following reasons, andso we just decided, if we're
going to trust it and put ourname behind it, that we were
going to research it and findthe best thing and bring it to
(38:25):
you, and there's a lot of waysto message that in a story
format that people can gravitateto and really become part of
that with you and rally aroundthat.
Jake Kiviko (38:37):
Absolutely, and I like how you just said that,
because I do think that it'simportant to vocalize that to
your customers that you knowthis wasn't just something that
we threw our name on and put onthe shelf.
That we threw our name on andput on the shelf, we took the
time to really make sure that,if we were going to put our name
on something, that it wassomething that we felt really,
(38:57):
really good about, um, and thatwe think is going to be the best
option for you.
Um, it's not just a cheap housebrand.
This is something that we tookthe time and we, you know we've
been in business 43 years, butwe just put our name on
something.
And you know, maybe've been inbusiness 43 years, but we just
put our name on something andyou know, maybe use that if you
had longevity and say the reasonis is because you know we
(39:18):
didn't find the right partneruntil right now and we feel
really good about this and it'ssomething that we're super
excited about and we can't waitto show you guys.
Amanda Ballard (39:27):
Yeah, and I think, whether it's private
label or just any brand thatyou're bringing in to the for
the first time, it's like everysquare inch of your store is
valuable and so if you thinkenough about a product to give
it, you know, three inches onthe shelf, it's like that's
something that's worth talkingabout and communicating to your
(39:48):
customers.
That, hey, like we do ourhomework around here and we're
not just going to let any otherproduct just get on the shelf,
like we genuinely take the timeto look at every single product
and make sure that it's the bestthing that we can possibly
offer you.
So, yeah, like I said, whetherit's whether it's a private
(40:10):
label or another brand that youbelieve in, like communicate it.
Um, because that's what's goingto make, again, differentiate
you from from your competition.
Jake Kiviko (40:22):
Absolutely.
I mean, you got to feel goodabout what's on your shelves and
what you're offering to peopleand if you do and you take that
time, you should be absolutelytelling people about it and and
they trust you.
You know, I listened to anotherone of your guys shows where
somebody said like we need to bethe influencers in our
communities, and I think that'sexactly what the independent
(40:44):
retailer should be and what wealready are without realizing it
, Because most of the time, thecustomers that come through your
doors are there because theytrust what you have to say and
what you have to tell them.
So definitely make sure thatyou are doing your homework and
that you feel good behind thebrands that you're representing
and that you know that you'reoffering the best options for
(41:07):
the people that you serve.
Tina Smith (41:10):
Okay, we're coming to the end of our time here, but
I do want to ask one otherquestion, because, just to set
expectations, once you do rollout a new brand, even if you're
doing all the right thingsleading up to it, there is a
time period in which it's newand you're transitioning, and it
might not be successful in twodays or five days or 10 days.
(41:33):
So I'm curious, like for youguys how long did you give it
before you started saying, wow,this is really working.
Jake Kiviko (41:42):
Great question.
So, first and foremost, wehaven't touched on make sure
that all of your staffunderstand why it is that you're
doing this and that this shouldbe, you know, theoretically,
the first thing that we showcustomers, and this is why, and
so that will help.
And the times that you can't doit and you know everybody in
(42:04):
your store is really gettingbehind the brand, then I think
it's going to be a little bitmore beneficial and quicker for
you.
But I think we noticed, youknow, fairly, you know, our most
recent one was fairly quickthat we were like, wow, this is,
this is really taking off.
We made, we made sure to givethe most recent one very good
(42:27):
product placement as well.
We put it right at the front ofthe store.
We wanted it to be the firstthing that people saw.
So I think that's another greatstrategy when you're going to
take this jump, to maybe makesure that you place it well so
that people see it and they askquestions about it.
But, um, some of the other onestake time and I would just say
(42:47):
hang in there, you know, doeverything you can and, um, I
don't think that we've ever hadone that we had to say, ok,
we're not going to do thisanymore, but some of them do
take longer than others and Ithink you just want to make sure
that you do everything you canon your part as far as product
placement, staff education andjust getting the entire store
(43:11):
and behind the brand.
But it just depends.
Just hang in there and and havefaith.
If you really believe in theproducts and you're conveying
that to customers, it will mostlikely work out for you.
Tina Smith (43:27):
So lots of ways to make this faster, a faster ROI
for you.
One is making sure that you'retaking the time to do things
right.
Another thing is you'retraining your staff on why are
we doing this and that they canbelieve in the product good
(43:52):
product placement and you have agreat messaging strategy going
in that you're communicating tocustomers as well, and I think
if you do those four things,you're going to succeed faster
than if you don't do them, eventhough the private label should
generate an ROI within a timeperiod if you stick with it.
So if you're launching todayand you haven't done all those
things, start doing them, itwill make it better for you.
(44:14):
I don't think that it won'tsucceed if you haven't done them
before, but if you do thembefore, I think it's going to be
just a smoother and fastertransition.
Jake Kiviko (44:25):
Yeah, I a hundred percent agree with that.
And you, another thing you needto realize with your brand or
private labels that you don'thave, like the marketing team
and budget that some of thesebrands do to, um, you know, do
advertising and get their nameout there.
It it falls on you and yourstaff and that's okay.
I mean you're spending timebuilding other brands anyways,
(44:46):
why not put that time into yourown?
And those four things youmentioned, tina um, absolutely,
what you, what you need to doand, um, you will see a good
return on it.
I wouldn't.
I would tell people that areworried or scared about jumping
into private label to not be um,it can be a really good thing
(45:08):
for your store and if you put inthe work and you start to see
the returns, there's no betterbrand to represent than your own
.
Amanda Ballard (45:19):
Awesome.
Well, Jake, thank you so muchfor your time with us today.
If listeners want to learn moreabout your store, how can they
find you?
Jake Kiviko (45:28):
Yeah, you can find us online at naturesfinestazcom
or on Instagram atnaturesfinestaz.
We do a lot on there as well,so I want to thank you guys too
for having me.
It's a lot of fun.
Amanda Ballard (45:42):
Thanks so much for listening to the Natural
Products Marketer Podcast.
We hope you found this episodeto be super helpful.
Make sure you check out theshow notes for any of those
valuable resources that wementioned on today's episode.
Tina Smith (45:53):
And, before you go, we would love for you to give us
a review.
Follow, like and subscribe onApple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube
or wherever you're listeningtoday, and make sure you join us
for our next episode, where wegive you more marketing tips so
that you can reach more peopleand change more lives.
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