March 23, 2025 • 50 mins
This week on the podcast, we’re joined by Ashley Gobeil, a Child and Family Therapist, trauma-specific counsellor, and social worker who specialises in supporting families through emotional and behavioural challenges. Parenting a child with ADHD-based behaviours can feel overwhelming, but Ashley offers compassionate guidance and practical strategies to help families build connection, resilience, and confidence in their parenting journey.
In This Episode, We Cover:
- The difference between ADHD and ADHD-based behaviours—and why understanding this distinction is key.
- Why validating your child’s feelings, rather than focusing on immediate correction, fosters resilience.
- How prolonged stress and emotional dysregulation impact both children and parents.
- How managing your own emotions can create a calmer home environment.
- How physical activity and mindfulness techniques can improve focus and self-regulation.
- Practical ways to support kids with working memory, organisation, and impulse control.
- A holistic approach to parenting: The role of brain development, gut health, somatic interventions, and cultural wisdom in supporting children’s emotional and behavioural well-being.
Ashley reminds us that parenting is an ongoing process and how it isn’t about quick fixes—it’s about consistency, emotional safety, and creating a home environment where children feel seen and understood.
Tune in to learn how to better support your child, manage challenging behaviours with confidence, and create a home environment that fosters connection and growth.
Connect with Ashley Globeil
For more insights, support, and resources on parenting children with ADHD and emotional regulation, connect with Ashley here:
- Website: Ashley Child Therapies & The ADHD Thrive Institute
- Instagram: @ashleychildtherapies
Explore More Resources
- Free Guide to Building Positive Self-Esteem in Kids
- Powerful Exercise to Motivate & Soothe Kids with ADHD
- Jumpstart 4 Parenting ADHD Program
This episode is proudly sponsored by my membership, the Natural Super Kids Klub. If you would like to become a member of the Klub to get more helpful resources to help you raise a happy and healthy family click here and pop your name on the waitlist.
If you loved this episode, leave me a review! I would really appreciate it. Also, let me know your biggest takeaway from this episode by sending me a direct message on Instagram @naturalsuperkids or shoot me an email at jessica@naturalsuperkids.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to the Natural Super Kids podcast,
where you will discoverpractical strategies to inspire
you to boost the health andnutrition of your kids.
I'm Jessica Donovan, aqualified naturopath
specializing in kids' health,and I want to make it as easy as
possible for you to raisehealthy and happy kids.
Let's get into it.
(00:26):
Hello, welcome to the podcast,jessica Donovan here.
I'm so excited to share thisconversation today that I had
with Ashley Gobeil, who is achild and family therapist.
(00:49):
This conversation is going tobe helpful for all parents.
I got so much out of thisconversation, but we're
specifically talking today aboutthe unique challenges that come
with parenting kids with ADHD,and Ashley shares so many
amazing insights and practicaltips and I just want to share a
(01:11):
little bit about Ashley beforewe get into this conversation.
So, as I said, ashley's a childand family therapist,
trauma-specific counsellor andqualified social worker who
specialises in supportingfamilies to work towards the
life they most desire.
That may be one of peace, morefun and a happy home environment
(01:33):
and family connection whereparents feel proud of the way
they are raising their children,knowing they are parenting in
ways that develop resilient andbeautiful kids who feel good
about themselves.
I mean, doesn't that sound likethe dream, but we have a real
conversation.
You know we're not sugarcoatingthings here.
(01:55):
We're talking about howchallenging parenting is, how
challenging parenting ADHD kidsis, and you know we talk a lot
about the importance of lookingafter ourselves as parents in
our parenting journey.
I really related to this,although my kids are not ADHD
kids.
I just really resonated with alot of what she said in terms of
(02:19):
some of the challenges thatcome with parenting in general,
but the stage that I'm in, whichis parenting teen.
So it's a great conversation tolisten to and I think you're
going to get a lot out of thisconversation.
So welcome to the podcast,ashley.
Welcome to the Natural SuperKids podcast, ashley.
(02:39):
It's so nice to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about today's chatnice to have you here.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about today's chat.
I think it's going to be areally good conversation.
So can you start by telling usa little bit about yourself and
the type of work that you do?
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So I work with children and families.
So a lot of my work in the lastfew years has really
predominantly been with parents,really about supporting parents
to deepen their understandingof their children's behaviors.
So they often turn up in mytherapy room because behaviors
are becoming really tricky athome and parents are often
(03:16):
distressed, overwhelmed and it'sjust gotten to a point where,
yeah, things are really reallytough.
So I do a lot of parenttherapeutic support, parent
coaching it's got lots ofdifferent names these days, but
I am a child and familytherapist and a social worker by
trade.
So, yeah, I do a lot of workwith families to restore or
build more harmoniousrelationships with each other
(03:38):
and, yeah, work towards thatgoal.
I mean, all parents want theirkids to be raised as happy,
empowered, you know, resilientlittle kiddos who feel good
about themselves, right, and whodoesn't want a parent with more
ease?
So it's usually kind of likethe main goal of our work.
And I work with families whohave children, who have been in
(04:01):
foster care, who've experiencedtrauma, all the way up to
parents who are struggling withtheir kids ADHD-based behaviours
, anxiety, prolonged periods ofstress, grief, loss, kind of all
of that if that answers thequestion.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and I'm here in Sydney, so I do have my own
private practice and then do alot of stuff online.
Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, perfect, yes, and I think what you offer is so
complimentary to what we offerhere at Natural Super Kids, and
today we're going to be focusingon yeah, like I guess, the
parenting side of ADHD.
We've talked about ADHD a loton this podcast.
More from, you know, a healthperspective, nutritionally, you
know, working on the gut,reducing inflammation, which we
(04:46):
were talking a little bit aboutoff air.
But, yeah, I'm so keen to hearyour take in terms of, I guess,
helping parents with theeveryday parenting struggles
that come with I mean parentingin general, but I think it's
just heightened with kids withADHD.
So let's start by talking a bitabout some of those common
(05:09):
behaviours that you typicallysee in kids that are struggling
with their ADHD.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, so those kind of more common ones, as you said
.
The common ones we would seecan range from, you know that,
impulsivity, you know they'vegot lack of control.
They can kind of be quiteinterrupty.
You know the parents are likethey're always interrupting,
difficulty, listening, followinginstructions, you know, and
then we can see them swing intolike hyper focus and finding it
(05:38):
really hard to change tasks.
You know transition betweendoing things.
They can become quite easilyoverwhelmed or dysregulated.
So that's where you start tosee some of the trickier
behaviors like meltdowns andemotional outbursts coming up.
They'll also parents also talkabout how their kid has this
(06:01):
kind of need to like controleverything.
They'll start to want tocontrol situations and
relationships, interactions, andthat's often connected to when
we have a nervous system that'sreally dysregulated.
The quickest way to establishsafety inside of the nervous
system is to try to like gaincontrol.
So parents will say, oh my gosh, it's like my kid wants to
(06:22):
dictate everything that'shappening at home and some of
those other kind of typical oneslike forgetfulness, daydreamy.
They're unable to focus andconcentrate on things for long
periods of time, especially whenthey're not interested in it.
They'll just like kind ofwander off.
You know, it's like they're notinterested in it.
But if they love it, you know,if they love Lego or they love,
(06:43):
you know, whatever they're doing, it's like zoning on the hyper
focus, yeah, and you'll see themhaving that difficulty sleeping
, you know, resting, anythinglike that.
Some of those less commonbehaviors that I see a lot in
the ADHD Thrive Instituteprogram that I do some work with
is kids seem to find it hard tobe bored.
(07:09):
I don't know if that's come upin the past, like where it's
like they find it hard toactually just be in, yeah, in
boredom, and I think some ofthat is around the dysregulation
that's chronically in theirnervous system.
It's like kind of hard for themto be with that right.
So they always want that kindof either dopamine hit or
distraction.
They can get really fixated andstuck on things like their
(07:33):
frustration.
Tolerance can be quite low anda big, big one I see across all
of my work in the programs isshame-related behaviors for kids
who experience ADHD.
So they can often have a lot ofnegative talk, you know, or
they'll project onto the adultsor their siblings where it's
like I hate you, you're stupid,and they try to make everyone
(07:54):
around them feel how they likelyfeel.
So I can't remember who foundthe statistical research, but
it's something like they havefound that kids with ADHD end up
with 20,000 more negativemessages than their peers.
Wow, at the age of like 12 soyou know they're getting these
(08:14):
negative kind of input all thetime about just their behaviors
are always being corrected whenyou think about it at home and
at school.
So we see a lot of shame showup and shame is like that.
I'll talk worse to it as we go,but it's that they don't feel.
They feel like they're a badkid.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, I can imagine they feel like they can't do
anything right and, yeah, thatnegative sort of feedback, yeah,
it doesn't help, and so much ofwhat you just said sounds
familiar.
I've got teenagers.
Sounds familiar in the teenparenting like the struggling to
be bored, the, you know,needing to have control.
So, although I'm sure lots ofparents that are listening will
(08:52):
resonate with so much of whatyou're talking about, if they do
have kids that have beendiagnosed with ADHD or have ADHD
type behaviours, I think youknow a lot of it is relevant for
even just general parenting,right.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, because it's like, yeah, so much of it is
just that emotionaldysregulation that kids
experience, and kids whoexperience ADHD often have quite
like a more sensitive nervoussystem.
I talk about I know Gabor Matetalks about it in a lot of his
work around ADD that, yeah, kidswho experience ADHD and ADD
(09:24):
tend to have a highly sensitive,easily activated nervous system
.
And what's really interestingis that's where you'll often see
, um, adhd behaviors showing upin different contexts.
So some parents will be likehow come they're so really great
at school but they're likelosing it at home?
Or they're really struggling atschool, but okay, at home, like
(09:44):
it can be in.
The behaviors can show updifferently across situations,
which can be really confusingfor adults and kind of
frustrating.
Um, but that has to do with,like what, the relational and
emotional input that the child'skind of experiencing and it
affects their, yeah, theirability to kind of regulate
those moments yeah, yeah,definitely so helpful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So obviously there's a lot that parents are dealing
with.
So where do you recommend thatparents start when wanting to
help their kids with ADHD,particularly when it comes to
that sensitive nervous system,that dysregulation?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, Well, I think the best place to start.
And look, I would imagine a lotof your listeners just are
slightly sit outside thatmainstream.
Right, they're here to do theyunderstand the importance of
nutrition.
But I always say to parents Ireally start with being open to
thinking about ADHD slightlydifferent to that really
(10:39):
traditional medical mainstreammodel, right, and expanding
their thinking around.
Okay, what could becontributing, what could be
exacerbating these ADHD basedbehaviors and symptoms?
It's like what's below thesurface, yeah, so like that kind
of curiosity, and even thoughyou know there's some research
to show there are genetic likemarkers and components to ADHD,
(11:04):
we know that the environment canswitch on genes and switch them
off.
You know that epigenetic stuff.
So you know thinking like whatelse could be going on for my
kid, what's sitting below andwhen we can start to be curious
around what's underneathbehaviors we can look at?
Okay, we address that.
Can we reduce some of theintensity and the frequency?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I love that.
So it's not just like oh well,they addressed that.
Can we reduce some of theintensity and the frequency?
I love that.
So it's not just like, oh well,they've got ADHD.
It's like looking at them moreas an individual and what's
going on for them in that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so some of those factors Ioften say to parents okay, start
with thinking about everythingfrom which you were doing a lot
in your program is inflammation,what's the toxin exposure?
What's the diet, what's the guthealth look like, what's their
inflammation level?
Because we know thatinflammation, which also can
come from stress if families arereally stressed right
(11:54):
inflammation will keep thatnervous system at a really
sensitive level so become quiteeasy to become activated.
Um, you know everything fromlike lack of time in nature and
low physical activity, excess,too much screen time all of that
can exacerbate ADHD as well.
Our classroom cultures can oftenexacerbate ADHD.
(12:17):
You know, is it?
You know what bits are workingfor kids and what isn't.
Things like unresolved,unresolved lived experiences.
So you know, we know ournervous systems hold like the
imprints and in our blueprint ofour whole lived experiences,
our whole lives.
So things like grief and loss,divorce, trauma, attachment
(12:38):
disruptions, social exclusion,you know the list goes on.
That stuff can sit with kiddoswho experience ADHD, who are
more sensitive, and so theyagain can contribute to that
more sensitive nervous systemover time if those experiences
really haven't kind of been Idon't know if resolved is the
right word, but integrated in away and they've made sense of
(12:58):
their emotions around them andthe beliefs that their child
carries about themselves.
So that shame is a hugeexacerbator that sits underneath
behaviours and that child feelslike, oh my gosh, I'm going to.
Yeah, I might fail, I'm goingto get it.
Yeah, I'm getting it wrong.
I'm always in trouble.
Maybe I am the bad kid.
You know, when that even gets alittle bit touched upon, we can
(13:21):
see kids fly into like bits ofrage, blaming someone else or
lying.
You know that sort of thing.
I had a parent this morningactually said her little one was
doing a test at school andhanded it into the teacher and
he's got ADHD.
And the teacher looked at itand it was blank and she just
said, oh, kiddo, did you, didyou find it really hard to
(13:41):
concentrate on this today?
I know that sometimes yourbrain makes it really tricky and
you just started to well up andhe's just like couldn't.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He's just like I couldn't do it, you know, and
her response would be beautiful,but that's not often the
response sometimes I can imagineyeah, it's like a different
teacher would have would havehad a completely different
response, which would have ledto that sort of cycle of shame,
wouldn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
yeah, and for him it was just like he actually feared
he was just going to get itwrong and he was stupid.
So he was like I'm not going totry so again.
Those that can even likecontribute to like that
difficulty concentrating andthat that executive functioning
lag, and I'm not sure parents,who are listening if they.
There's a really cool statisticaround executive functioning,
(14:23):
so you might have a kiddo.
A really cool statistic aroundexecutive functioning, so you
might have a kiddo, let's say,who's 11, who has adhd.
That might be theirchronological age, but their
executive functioning age andtheir emotional developmental
age, um, they reckon, is about30 percent lower than their
peers, like on average, right,so you might have an 11 year old
, but they're sitting aroundnine.
Or you might have anine-year-old who's sitting
(14:45):
around six, and so it's likeadjusting those expectations.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I was just going to say that really helps parents
and teachers, hopefully, andcarers really adjust those
expectations, which can be a, Iguess, a positive thing for that
cycle of shame.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Like when they feel betterabout who they are and don't
feel like they're, yeah, beingcorrected as much, then they can
, yeah, start to move throughsome of that shame.
Yeah, I parents often go reallylike they're that much younger.
So it's like even those littlekindy ones who start you're five
and six, said to a parent theother day.
(15:22):
I'm like you know thatemotionally development, she's
probably sitting around four andthey're like, oh, that makes
sense with the meltdowns, like,yeah, you know, is it's there's
been a bit of a lag in thatdevelopment, or when things have
been really chronicallystressful in homes, um, yeah,
it's kind of like unfinisheddevelopmental tasks.
Let's say, yeah, those kiddos.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So if a parent's listening that are, like you
know, light bulbs going on, ohmy gosh, like I'm maybe
contributing to that shame thatmy child feels, but I guess not
knowing how to get out of thatcycle, like feeling like the
child does need to be corrected.
You know they can't behave inthat way or whatever it might be
(16:05):
like.
Any tips on that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
um.
The first one is like, giveyourself some grace, parents.
Like it is hard, like I um,yeah, I work with parents who
literally show up, who are justcompletely overwhelmed at tears,
like it is so tough, like everyday.
Um, I had a mama a couple weeksago say like every single
(16:29):
interaction feels like a battle.
I can't get him to doeverything, anything you know.
So it's like what you're upagainst is really tough.
So I do want to acknowledgethat to parents, that it is, and
I would say to parentsacknowledge what their
experience has been like as well.
Sometimes there's some grief init.
Like parents, it's not thereality you want to be in.
It might not be the timelineyou want to be in and you might
(16:52):
be grieving like that.
This is not what I thoughtparenting would be, especially
if it's been like prolongedstress in the family.
It's like, yeah, it's really,really tough and so have a lot
of compassion for yourself.
But also also, we aren't gonnaget it right all the time, we're
not gonna be perfect as parents, and so when we show up in a
way, then we go oh, I'veunintentionally shamed my kid or
(17:15):
oh, my gosh, I've correctedthem like 50 times you can go
back and do repair, like that'sthe beauty of it.
You go back and you do repairand it's like you know what I
flipped my earlier.
I was really frustrated and Icompletely yelled at you.
Actually, it probably wouldhave made you feel not very good
about yourself.
I still really need you to packyour school bag, you know.
It's just like we could stillhold those firm boundaries and
(17:36):
limits and still hold space forour children's emotional
experience of that boundary andlimit, because kids do,
especially kids with adhd.
They need a lot of scaffoldingon those skills.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
I think it's dr becky talksabout.
People know her.
(17:56):
Um, kids are born with all thefeelings and none of the skills
right that's a good way to lookat it yeah, yeah, they're born
like little emotional things butnone of the skills, so we have
to scalp all those skills, andkids with ADHD often need a lot
of prompts and a lot ofreminders.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Um, yeah, and some big firm boundaries and limits
which is exhausting for parentslike parents that are already
you, you know feeling likethey're just keeping, maybe just
keeping their head above waterin their busy sort of lives.
So, yeah, I love that youacknowledge that you know it's
tough for parents and we don'twant it to become shame for us,
(18:39):
although I'm sure you know it isfor a lot of parents.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean.
So I actually had a parentactually in our coaching call
this morning who just was like Ifeel so judged or oh my gosh, I
feel like I can't get anythingright.
Maybe I'm not getting it right.
How about?
You know and I think, as someof us, many of us, as mums,
often have that moment of likehave I ruined my child?
Oh my gosh, I've done it.
It's like pause, you are doingthe best you can with the
(19:08):
resource and the knowledge thatyou have.
Yeah, like we are doing thebest we can with the knowledge
and resource we have, and if wecould be doing better, we would
be, um, I think, yeah, and it'slike when you can, you'll get
there right.
Just like listening to some ofthis stuff, even if a few things
(19:28):
land on a parent today, okay,I'm going to be mindful of that,
moving into my parenting,that's just part of your process
.
And, again, it's like if youcould turn a light switch on and
not have that parentalfrustration.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
We would right, like how many of us?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
be like, oh, I wish I didn't have motherhood rage
today.
Well, it's there, so how do wejust be with it with a little
bit of kindness and do repairwhen we need right, because it
is really exhausting and it canactually um, it can burn out a
parent's nervous system, likeparents who are parenting
neurodiversity.
(20:01):
That's really exacerbated adhd.
They do tend to be the parentswho go into compassion, fatigue
and burnout or stay in that likehyper arousal, flight, state
ourselves as parents right, andthose chronic fight modes or
just crash and burn because itis really tricky.
So, yeah, I was like how do weget there?
(20:22):
So, like, self-care is a hugething, which I know, yeah,
keeping your own like filling upyour own cup.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
As a, as a parent, that's definitely my motto for
these teen years, which aretricky in a in a different, but
you know like if you're going tobe able to cope with whatever
the kids throw at you in anyparticular day, you know, I
think the most important thingis to keep your own yeah,
self-care practices up and keepyour own cup full.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, because it's like if we're empty, how can we
turn up to our kids' strugglesin the way that we need?
And this often can happen.
It can be like a bit of adynamic.
That happens is that we end upkind of with low resource and so
when things are stressful, wereally we kind of unconsciously
want our kids to turn up in theway that helps us.
We want compliance.
(21:09):
Like how much easier wouldcompliance be.
You didn't have to sit andconvince your toddler to put on
shoes.
Like we want our kids to turnup to the space.
Like that just makes it easierfor us.
Then other times it's like,actually, okay, I've got to turn
up to their struggles in a waythat's going to be helpful.
It's that kind of longer routeof parenting.
It's like the true emotionalregulation.
(21:32):
Because I often say to parentsyes, compliance would be great.
Um, but compliance doesn'tbuild true emotional regulation
for a kid.
It actually just teaches themthey need to do what.
I would say yeah, like it's.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's an interesting conversation to think about how
yeah, exactly like it'ssomething that we wish for as
parents.
Like why don't they just dowhat I say?
Um, but I love that you saidthat it's not really building
any helpful skills for our kidsif they're just doing what we
say yeah, it's like we really,truly want them to develop that
(22:06):
emotional regulation which thenhas the flow-on effect to them
having self-discipline.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They will become more cooperative, they'll learn
taking turns, like, like they'llget there.
But they need that emotionalregulation development first,
and all the research shows thatemotional regulation development
initially comes from.
It comes from co-regulation.
Children need to haveconsistent, repetitive
experiences of adultsco-regulating them, meaning they
(22:34):
kind of like essentially haveto borrow our nervous system for
quite some time and that's justanother vote for why we need to
make sure we're, as you know,as regulated as as possible,
right?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
yeah, wow, so so interesting.
Um, so tell us a bit more aboutthe parenting framework that
you see that works best for kidswith ADHD.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I was like I feel like we've, yeah, kind of
gone a little bit, so like, howdo we tie this all together?
So, yeah, I guess I call itlike an ADHD specific parenting
approach, and some people mightget the sense already.
It's a little bit of a flavor.
There is some conscious-basedparenting in it.
I kind of like to think aboutit as having three parts, and
(23:25):
that first one is the parentingmindset.
Okay, so, like our mindset,going into parenting a kid with
ADHD is huge, which is kind ofwhat I spoke to around, like
getting real with where they'reat in their executive
functioning, kind of thinkingabout what's all, what could be
behind their behaviors, etcetera.
And one of the best kind oflittle mantras that seemed to
land well in for parents who'vegot kids with ADHD is Dr Ross
(23:46):
Green's work.
He wrote the Explosive Childand he talks about kids do well
when they can.
It's like if we can reallytruly start to step into that as
a police, like kids do wellwhen they can.
It's like if we can reallytruly start to step into that as
a place, like kids do well whenthey can, as opposed to kids do
well if they want to.
Because when we are in thatparenting belief that oh okay,
kids do well, only they if theychoose to, as opposed to
(24:09):
actually, kids do well when theycan, and if they're not doing
well, it's usually becausesomething's getting in the way
that's a massive mindset shifthuge and it can be a really
tricky one, because we were allparented, most of us, from the
framework and society isconditioned us to go no, no, no.
Kids do well if they wanna.
So let's just make them want todo better, let's do punishment,
(24:32):
let's do consequences, let's doyou know, um, yeah, so when we
actually go, no, they've got asensitive nervous system.
It's highly activated, they'vegot some neurodiversity.
The way they experience theworld's differently, um, lots of
kids with adhd.
Because of that sensitivenervous system, they do tend to
have more food sensitivities,allergies, um, the gut health
(24:55):
difficulties.
They're sensitive to sensoryexperiences.
Like I said, their whole body,mind, just you know physicality
just experiences the world moresensitively, if that's a word
differently.
And so when we can really go,okay, my kid's not giving me a
hard time, they're actuallyhaving a hard time.
This isn't about us as parents,it's not you right.
(25:18):
It's like and it's really toughnot to take it personally as a
parent.
It's like, no, actually there'ssomething getting in the way
and this is what they're showingup as.
Um.
I do truly believe that allchildren's behaviors are a form
of communication.
Yeah, so like having themindset if I go back to like,
okay, that three kind of pillarsto the ADHD specific parenting
(25:39):
is like we got to have the rightmindset and then it is really a
relationally and emotionallyresponsive approach.
So it really focuses onconnection and understanding
whilst holding limits, verysturdy limits and boundaries, as
opposed to really focusing onthat like traditional-based
(26:00):
parenting of compliance,punishment, because we know that
exacerbates shame, etc.
Yeah, and that real, you know,scaffolding of skills.
It's like you got your mindsetand it's like okay, we respond
from more of an emotionally,yeah, responsive approach.
So I don't know if people haveheard of, I don't know if you've
heard of it.
Just that connection beforecorrection.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yes.
I was thinking about thatbefore when you were saying, you
know that cycle that we can getin like always correcting, and
I've recently been in that withmy 17 year old son.
You know like, and I've got tocatch myself and be like okay,
how can I connect with himbefore I correct him again?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like connect to theiremotion, connect to their in
relationship, and then corrector instead of correct sometimes
right Sometimes that theconnection does the correction
right.
Exactly.
Sometimes it's enough to dothat regularly because, like, we
are actually the biggest toolthat our children have well,
(27:01):
even into adolescence, because,as I said, they need to borrow
our nervous system for such along period of time to build
those neuropathways in theirbrain and bodies, for their
regulation, so they like pluginto us, they can drain us
emotionally.
I had a mom once say to me likeshe's a little emotional
vampire.
(27:21):
She just comes in totallydrains me, and then she's like
good and regulated, but I'm flaton the floor.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, I'm sure lots of parents can resonate with
that feeling Like, hang on whathappened.
I'm feeling so flat now.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, like, take everything from me.
So, yeah, it is that and it isyeah.
So it's a really relational,responsive kind of parenting
approach.
It's the mindset shift andholistic.
So, as I said, it really looksat what are the other factors
that are sitting you knowparenting is huge but also
looking at, okay, how else can Ireduce that intensity and
(27:54):
frequency of the symptomsthrough the natural kind of,
yeah, health Everything from?
I mean, there's great resultsaround like chiropractic stuff
for kids with ADHD and cranialsacral therapy and kinesiology
and you know people looking intothat more alternative,
complementary type of approachesas well into that more
(28:17):
alternative, complementary typeof approaches as well.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, so much that you know complementary health,
natural health, can offer interms like to support kids with
ADHD, and that's what we're sortof always harping on about.
And you know, like, for a goodexample of that, like, if you're
so, additives you know, foodadditives can be very triggering
for a lot of kids with ADHD.
So if your kid's diet is fullof additives, you know, no
(28:41):
matter what sort of parentingapproach you're taking, you know
that you're coming in with likeit's going to be tricky.
So I love that you brought inthat sort of, you know, that
holistic side of diet and itcomes back to basics a lot of
the time.
You know it's a good whole fooddiet, it's movement, it's good
sleep, it's not too much screentime.
All of those things can add upto make a huge difference, can't
(29:01):
they?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, as you said, like they'llI mean so many of the kids I see
is like, yeah, they'recompletely riddled with
inflammation.
And, as you said, it's likeparents have to go.
Your parenting approach isn'tworking.
I'm like, define working.
It's not making them calm down,it's not making them stop.
I'm like have we done the otherpiece of the puzzle?
And it's like I still want toencourage parents that, if it's
(29:24):
not shifting right away, keepshowing up in these parenting
approaches because it doesreduce that shame that they're
experiencing.
Over time.
It's going to strengthen yourrelationship, you know, because
it's like what's the alternative?
They're struggling and if wecome in with more distress, you
know, and, yeah, evenunintentional shame, but it's
(29:45):
like, okay, even when you do thefood bit, yeah, it's hard to
explain.
So, yeah, how do you do them inparallel at times?
Yeah, because it's like keepshowing up, this is the long
route of parenting.
The at times, yeah, cause it'slike keep showing up, this is
the long route of parenting.
The agenda isn't to use empathyor naming their emotion to calm
down.
It's like, you know, often sayhave you tried naming?
You know, try naming theiremotion.
Like, oh my gosh, you're really, really angry now that I've
(30:06):
turned off the TV and you reallywant that screen time.
Yeah, I know it's like sounfair that I've said no, no,
still can't let you have thatice cream before dinner.
But you're really, really sadand the kid's having this big,
explosive meltdown and it's likeyour parenting approach didn't
work.
I'm like it's about holdingspace for the meltdown so that
(30:27):
your child has the experience offeeling seen, heard and
acknowledged, no matter how theyshow up, and eventually, with
consistency consistency they'relike oh, my parent does kind of
get it and it does start to justlike I said, that frequency and
intensity will reduce.
Yeah, even with just theparenting.
But gosh, you add the holisticstuff in and it's like you're
(30:48):
doing all the pieces.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
It all comes together .
Yeah, and I love that you saidthat, because you know I think a
a lot of parents can haveunrealistic expectations.
I know I certainly have in thepast.
Where you like, learn thisamazing parenting strategy like
that, reflecting the emotionthey're feeling and in the
moment you can feel like, well,it's not working.
So, yeah, it's not aboutworking, like it's not that
(31:11):
quick fix, is it?
You know, like you said, it'sabout holding space.
It might not be working, butthey are still feeling heard and
validated in that moment andthen over time, that definitely
works.
And it's funny, now that I'vegot, you know, cheeky teenagers
and I try to reflect backemotions to them, they'll be
like I know what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I know, I know I've got lots of clients who the kids
will um say to the parents whyare you sounding like Ashley
right now?
We kind of this is a good thingbecause it's like even when
they're onto you, it's like theyknow you're showing up
different.
So it's like we're shifting thedynamic, we're doing something
different.
Yeah, and like empathy andemotion, coaching it's.
(31:52):
It's not meant to be used as atool to get your kid to comply.
It's meant to be a tool toleave your child feeling seen,
heard and acknowledged so thatthey develop more resilience
over time and build, you know,that positive sense of self,
identify their.
Eventually, then the kid I love.
Like when parents come back amonth later or so and they're
like my kid just said they weresad'm like great, that's
(32:15):
progress.
They said they were sad.
Still may have had a bit of ameltdown.
They said they were sad.
Like that's huge, it's massivebut they stomped their foot and
said I'm angry, amazing, youknow, like slow progress, but
it's like when you're undoing,yeah, those, or you're not
undoing, when you're buildingthat emotional regulation.
It can take time for kids whoare sensitive and where there's
(32:38):
already been some, yeah,unhelpful patterns that have
happened for them.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, Definitely, and it's not like a thing that you
sort of get you know you likeright, right, I've nailed that
and now everything's calmforever in my home.
Emotions still happen.
It's just about how we cansupport our kids to regulate
them, isn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
absolutely.
And yeah, like acknowledgingour own emotions as well as
parents, because certainbehaviors are going to trigger
us more than other behaviors.
Yes, which could be a wholeother podcast around why our own
stuff that shows up.
But I often say to parents okay, what gets your stuff that's
showing up?
You?
Know, it's like yeah, and, andgiving yourself that kind of
(33:19):
grace and acknowledging oh yeah,this is really tough in the
moment.
Um, but it's not an emergency.
I can do this.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I can ride the wave of emotion, yeah yeah, and I
think just something I've beenpracticing again recently is
sort of pausing before I respond, because I'm definitely finding
, you know, the teenage behavior, like through these teenage
years, a lot, a lot oftriggering and just being aware
that, okay, this is triggeringfor me, like and just pausing
(33:47):
before you like sort of respondabsolutely we'll end up reacting
from that place ofdysregulation in ourselves as
opposed to going okay, this ismy nervous system, recognizing
something is not safe.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Might not even have to do with my kid, could be a
past nervous system imprint frommy own childhood, or you know,
I'm feeling, yeah, whatever'shappening to me, pause, and then
going, okay, how does my kidneed me to turn up to this right
now?
What's going to be helpful?
And it's like we want to givekids the message especially in
teenagers as well that we've gotthis, we can be the sturdy
(34:24):
anchor when they're wobbling.
It's like how do we stay sturdywhen they're wobbling?
Because if we start to wobbletoo, they don't get the
relational, the experience ofrelational safety that they need
to develop that regulation,yeah, and we can leave them
feeling really seen, heard andvalued, like I would say that's
like the main thing we reallywant to do for our kids in those
(34:46):
interactions Like how do Ileave feeling really seen, heard
and acknowledged for all partsof them?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yes, so true.
I love that.
I'm getting lots of greatreminders for myself, and I
don't even have kids with ADHD,so I think this is so helpful,
like I said earlier, like forparenting in general.
I think parents that areparenting kids with ADHD are
just sort of that next levelthan what the rest of us might,
(35:13):
sort of experience, but, yeah,super helpful.
I'm sure the listeners thathave kids with ADHD are finding
it really helpful as well.
So let's, can we just go backto executive functioning?
I know you talked about thatearlier.
Can you explain what that isfor people who might not know
and share some practicalstrategies for executive
functioning?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, so definitely got a few little tips and
strategies.
Um, in terms of how to explainit, it's it's kind of explained
where there can be a little bitof a lag in parts of the
thinking brain.
So when you think aboutchildren and adults, but
children's brains, we've got, um, yeah, we've got our thinking
brain.
Then we have our emotion brainand we've got our brainstem, so
(35:55):
brainstem, our emotion brain,and we've got our brain stem.
So brain stem and survivalbrain is where we see the fight,
fight, freeze.
We have our emotion brain,where you'll see lots of
different emotions.
Thinking brain is where, like,it's called the cortex for those
who love the neuroscience ofprefrontal cortex um, but it's
really in charge of, like,everything from language to
problem solving, decision making.
(36:16):
Um, yeah, concentration, focus,etc.
Regulation kind of yeah, animpact regulation as well,
depending on the right side andleft side of the brain, can get
kind of cool.
But to think about, but it'sreally, yeah, kids with adhd can
struggle obsessing parts of thethinking brain quickly.
It's almost like sometimes Isay to parents like can be like
(36:37):
patchy wi-fi.
Yeah, you know, the teenagersare trying to get wi-fi on the
phone.
It's like in and out.
It's like they want to kind ofget to that, but it can be
really tricky.
So it can impact like workingmemory.
You'll see like so childrenwith adhd can often really only
hold like two instructions at atime.
Yeah, so they'll often need alot of prompts.
(36:58):
You know they might need you toactually really go to them and
go hey, I need you to do thisnow rather than hauling it from
across the house.
It can be something reallyhelpful around having like a
clean, decluttered space thatdoesn't feel chaotic and a
designated area for importantthings, because they can be
quite forgetful.
It's like can you go and dothis and do this?
(37:20):
That might be all they canmanage.
Yeah, um, um.
And yeah, that kind of easilydistract as well if you're not
interested in it.
Um, even like recall can be abit tricky at times.
So we want to be really clearin our expectations.
Um, rhythms and like littlerituals can be really helpful
(37:45):
throughout the day.
So, like we talk a lot aboutroutines super great but rituals
and rhythms, like having littlerituals where it's like before
dinner we light a candle as afamily or put on our favorite
song, or in the morning, aftereveryone's ready, we do mindful
coloring like almost likemarkers throughout the day that
feel meaningful, that kind ofkeep them knowing that there's
(38:05):
an ebb and flow, so it helpsthem feel kind of contained,
grounded.
We want to like also turn downstimulation in the house where
we can.
Um, they might need a lot ofvisual things like a visual
calendar.
Images as opposed to lots andlots of words, right, um, a
visual routine.
A lot of kids with adhd alsohave that comorbidity around,
(38:29):
like dyslexia and dyscalculia aswell.
I'm dyslexic, so how do I putthat in which often gets missed.
So, yeah, but sometimes readingand all the numbers and words
will jump out.
They need a lot of physicalmovement, wind down breaks.
You know that can really helpkind of reset those parts of the
brain.
And they do love that kind ofcreative I mean most kids do
(38:52):
creative dance, music, you know.
Cooking, that kind of freenatural play, team sports,
martial arts-based skills havealso really shown that kind of
help, that kind of increase andboost those executive
functioning skills.
Yeah, and the reduction and Iand it's really tricky um, low
(39:13):
levels of screen time, becausescreen time can really really
impact kids with ADHD, keepsthem in the dopamine loops and
the younger the child is as wellit can actually bring on.
Um, yeah, bring on the leftside of the brain too quickly,
and yeah, or the way itscaffolds up.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So such a challenging one because I think it's
probably like a bit of a um,like it helps in the moment,
right like absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
When you're burnt out and stressed as a parent
parenting a kid with ADHD,sometimes the only break you
feel like you get is when thekid's on the screen.
Yeah, yeah, that's a tricky one, like getting up those kind of
habits, because it's likesometimes, yeah, then they're
dysregulated for the rest of theafternoon.
But, yeah, getting them outsidein nature as much as possible,
(40:07):
on the trampoline and dependingon age, like some of the tips
and tools and there's so muchstuff online around how to help
kids with executive functioningas well it's like you might
choose what's the age of my kid,what's going to land?
Some kids are like parents havebig, beautiful whiteboards with
all these different images andthey're like they just forget to
look at the whiteboard everymorning, Like, oh, that's not
working.
Okay, Get creative again.
You know, it's like what'sgoing to work for my kiddo.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yes, it's different for every child.
And when you're talking aboutthat physical activity gosh,
I've seen time and time again inthe clients and members that we
work with like more physicalactivity, more outside time in
nature makes such a hugedifference, especially like
before school.
If kids are struggling to sitand concentrate and you know
(40:51):
which obviously is expected atschool, like if they can get
some physical activity in beforeschool, that can just change,
you know, make have a massivepositive impact.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Huge and time for like mindfulness and practicing
mindfulness Because remember Iwas saying they find it really
hard to be bored or they find ithard to be still.
Sometimes It's's like you mighthave to do it with them before
they're able to do it as welland like even opportunities to
increase their um experientiallearning, like using hands and
visual and touch, as opposed tothe sitting and learning and
(41:24):
listening right like what arethe other opportunities for
learning?
Kids with adhd need that moreum, more sort of hands-on,
totally yeah, yeah, whichunfortunately we know mainstream
school doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I know we nurture for our kiddos yeah, yeah yeah, but
again it's like I guess youknow, where possible, making
good choices in terms of, youknow, schooling and that sort of
thing.
That's obviously a whole, awhole another, another topic, um
, yeah, but thank you forsharing more about executive
functioning and how we can kindof support that in in ADHD kids.
(41:57):
So what about some, like wetalked about the regulation,
like the dysregulation?
I think this is huge for forkids with ADHD.
So parents like some tips forparents to increase kids'
self-regulation and, I guess,reduce those tricky behaviors.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, so, yeah, we talked about connection before
correction.
That can be such a good one.
So it's like, you know,connecting with them and just
saying their emotion as Idescribed her, it's like, yeah,
you're really, really angryright now.
You're mad at me because I'vedone that so, like sharing their
emotions out loud, um, you know, again, giving them that
message that we can stay sturdywhen they're, you know, wobbling
(42:37):
and it's also naming theiremotions but finding in
ourselves to have that likegenuine empathy and compassion
for how they feel, when we canmuster it up, um, and, yeah,
some days we're gonna need towrite, ride it out, like
sometimes it's like we're ridingthe emotional meltdown and the
outburst and working on our owntriggers and our own parental
(43:03):
nervous system, I would say islike probably the most important
thing when we want to supportkids with ADHD, to build
regulation, and it's actuallyfascinates me every time.
You're like, when we canactually get it together a
little bit, when we can lookafter ourselves, when we can get
the support we need and show updifferent, it has such a ripple
(43:25):
effect.
Yeah, I think the other reallybig one is how do you hold a lot
of parents go?
How do I hold those sturdyboundaries and limits, yeah, and
still hold space for theiremotional experience.
I think that's like a really bigone, it's a tricky balance to
get right, isn't it?
you don't always want to.
Just, you know, yeah, we'renaming all the emotions if it's
like but how do we also thenlike, invite accountability and
(43:46):
teach our kids what you knowmost of them know what's okay
and not okay, but it's like, um,I think Dr Becky again talks
about it around how do we stayin that parental authority, but
with kindness, like we want tostep into constantly our
parental power?
So, because often a lot ofparents say with kids with ADHD
(44:09):
that the child is dictating theatmosphere of the home, that
they're in charge, they'rerunning the show.
I hear those messages over andover again.
It's like, hey, how do we stepback up into?
No, actually we're the ones incharge and it's as simple as
going.
I can't let you hit your sister.
I'm not able to let you haveice cream for dinner.
(44:30):
I actually can't let you speakto me that way.
Yeah, you're so angry, you'rescreaming in my face and you're
swearing.
You know it's like I'm not ableto let you do that.
So I'm going to have to comeand take what you're about to
throw.
So it's like I can't let youscream in your sister's face.
So now I'm going to step rightin between you.
I'm going to help you with thisreally big feeling.
(44:51):
Yeah, I had a mom earlier thisweek.
That was like he was kickingand screaming and having a
really unsafe meltdown.
It's like it's riding the waveof, like it's my job to keep you
safe.
So I'm going to stay right nearyou, I'm going to help hold
(45:12):
your feet down, because I'mnoticing we're finding it really
hard to be safe.
You know, um, noticing what'scoming up for you as a parent,
and it's like I need.
I need to come in and help youpause your body, because you're
about to hurt someone.
If it's like at that level, yeah, which for a lot of families it
can escalate where kids are inthat fight mode pretty regularly
, um, or, as I said, they'reshowing up in what parents
experience as defiant, or it'slike another um apart and I was
(45:34):
going to say I might just finishholding the limits and
boundaries, and then you add onto that.
Hey, I can't let you do that.
I won't let you do that.
You just add on.
But I know you feel reallyangry about it.
It's okay for me to feel sadabout it.
You can be mad at me right now.
Yeah, it's like you, you know,acknowledging that they have an
(45:57):
emotional experience about thelimit you just set.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
yes, yeah, yeah, so you can do both at the same time
, absolutely, so, you're likeholding that and yeah, I think
where else I was going with thatyeah, well, I think I think
that in itself is super helpful,and I think it's really tricky
to get right, and I just lovewhat you said before about you
know, just acknowledging thatthis is tough for parents.
So, yeah, although you'veshared lots of you know, great
tips and strategies andinformation, it comes back to
(46:22):
like, I guess, acknowledgingthat this is tough for parents.
It's tough for the kids as welland, yeah, I guess, making sure
that we're looking afterourselves first and foremost.
I love that point you madeabout the co-regulation of the
nervous system.
I think that is super importantfor people to understand.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, and as adults, like we yeah, we're kind of like
the heart of the family nervoussystem.
Most of the time, yeah, it'sthe mamas, like we're like the
beating heart of the wholefamily nervous system.
Like we have the impact andthen sometimes when you have a
kiddo who's really struggling,it can kind of dysregulate.
You know how, like nervoussystem, energy and emotions.
(47:03):
Emotions are so contagious andso we can become so whipped up
and in the dysregulation thatall of a sudden we're living a
life where it's like everybody'sreactive.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
And it can feel like a heavy responsibility for mums
and dads as well.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, huge and so it's like, okay, how do we get
into the new mindset?
How do we use the empathy andcuriosity as, like, what's
really going on for my kid?
Yeah, we can even use curiosityin the moment with kids where
it's like, hmm, like I wonder ifyou're screaming and yelling at
your sister because youactually feel really bad about
yourself right now, like we canacknowledge the shame, right,
(47:38):
and lots and lots of lots ofempathy.
Kids with ADHD who arestruggling, or any kids who are
struggling um, yeah, they reallyneed us to kind of be like hey,
I'm trying to get a glimmerinto what life is like for you.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, I love that, and I think this is why the work
you do is so importantsupporting parents and kids.
So tell us more about the workyou do and where we can find you
, and I think you've got afreebie for our listeners as
well.
I do.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I have a few freebies .
So for our listeners as well, Ido, I have a few freebies.
So, yeah, people can find me onInstagram Ashley Child
Therapies on Instagram, as wellas some of my works on the ADHD
Thrive Institute, and I do havea resource that's like five
(48:34):
powerful exercises to motivateand soothe your kid with ADHD.
So I do a lot of like somaticbase work, sensory and body work
with kiddos that can helpregulate their nervous system
Another great parenting tip andso that's a handout that gives
you and there's actually morethan five exercises I've put in
there, there's like 20 aroundyeah, what can uplift and
regulate kids, motivate them andwhat can soothe them.
(48:54):
And I've got another one onhelping kids build a positive
self-esteem and reduce thatshame over time.
So there's a little self-esteemtip sheet that I can give you
as well, just to share.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
So, so helpful, and I will make sure that we share
the links to those resources, aswell as your Instagram accounts
, in the show notes.
So for everyone listening headon over to our show notes, the
links will be in there.
Yeah, for you to follow alongwith Ashley's work.
I've loved this conversation.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today
.
Head on over to our website,naturalsuperkidscom, for the
show notes for this episode, aswell as a whole heap of
inspiration to help you raisehealthy and happy kids.
I'll see you next week.
Welcome to the Natural Super Kids podcast,
where you will discoverpractical strategies to inspire
you to boost the health andnutrition of your kids.
I'm Jessica Donovan, aqualified naturopath
specializing in kids' health,and I want to make it as easy as
possible for you to raisehealthy and happy kids.
Let's get into it.
(00:26):
Hello, welcome to the podcast,jessica Donovan here.
I'm so excited to share thisconversation today that I had
with Ashley Gobeil, who is achild and family therapist.
(00:49):
This conversation is going tobe helpful for all parents.
I got so much out of thisconversation, but we're
specifically talking today aboutthe unique challenges that come
with parenting kids with ADHD,and Ashley shares so many
amazing insights and practicaltips and I just want to share a
(01:11):
little bit about Ashley beforewe get into this conversation.
So, as I said, ashley's a childand family therapist,
trauma-specific counsellor andqualified social worker who
specialises in supportingfamilies to work towards the
life they most desire.
That may be one of peace, morefun and a happy home environment
(01:33):
and family connection whereparents feel proud of the way
they are raising their children,knowing they are parenting in
ways that develop resilient andbeautiful kids who feel good
about themselves.
I mean, doesn't that sound likethe dream, but we have a real
conversation.
You know we're not sugarcoatingthings here.
(01:55):
We're talking about howchallenging parenting is, how
challenging parenting ADHD kidsis, and you know we talk a lot
about the importance of lookingafter ourselves as parents in
our parenting journey.
I really related to this,although my kids are not ADHD
kids.
I just really resonated with alot of what she said in terms of
(02:19):
some of the challenges thatcome with parenting in general,
but the stage that I'm in, whichis parenting teen.
So it's a great conversation tolisten to and I think you're
going to get a lot out of thisconversation.
So welcome to the podcast,ashley.
Welcome to the Natural SuperKids podcast, ashley.
(02:39):
It's so nice to have you here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about today's chatnice to have you here.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited about today's chat.
I think it's going to be areally good conversation.
So can you start by telling usa little bit about yourself and
the type of work that you do?
Yeah, sure.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
So I work with children and families.
So a lot of my work in the lastfew years has really
predominantly been with parents,really about supporting parents
to deepen their understandingof their children's behaviors.
So they often turn up in mytherapy room because behaviors
are becoming really tricky athome and parents are often
(03:16):
distressed, overwhelmed and it'sjust gotten to a point where,
yeah, things are really reallytough.
So I do a lot of parenttherapeutic support, parent
coaching it's got lots ofdifferent names these days, but
I am a child and familytherapist and a social worker by
trade.
So, yeah, I do a lot of workwith families to restore or
build more harmoniousrelationships with each other
(03:38):
and, yeah, work towards thatgoal.
I mean, all parents want theirkids to be raised as happy,
empowered, you know, resilientlittle kiddos who feel good
about themselves, right, and whodoesn't want a parent with more
ease?
So it's usually kind of likethe main goal of our work.
And I work with families whohave children, who have been in
(04:01):
foster care, who've experiencedtrauma, all the way up to
parents who are struggling withtheir kids ADHD-based behaviours
, anxiety, prolonged periods ofstress, grief, loss, kind of all
of that if that answers thequestion.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, and I'm here in Sydney, so I do have my own
private practice and then do alot of stuff online.
Yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Yeah, perfect, yes, and I think what you offer is so
complimentary to what we offerhere at Natural Super Kids, and
today we're going to be focusingon yeah, like I guess, the
parenting side of ADHD.
We've talked about ADHD a loton this podcast.
More from, you know, a healthperspective, nutritionally, you
know, working on the gut,reducing inflammation, which we
(04:46):
were talking a little bit aboutoff air.
But, yeah, I'm so keen to hearyour take in terms of, I guess,
helping parents with theeveryday parenting struggles
that come with I mean parentingin general, but I think it's
just heightened with kids withADHD.
So let's start by talking a bitabout some of those common
(05:09):
behaviours that you typicallysee in kids that are struggling
with their ADHD.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, so those kind of more common ones, as you said
.
The common ones we would seecan range from, you know that,
impulsivity, you know they'vegot lack of control.
They can kind of be quiteinterrupty.
You know the parents are likethey're always interrupting,
difficulty, listening, followinginstructions, you know, and
then we can see them swing intolike hyper focus and finding it
(05:38):
really hard to change tasks.
You know transition betweendoing things.
They can become quite easilyoverwhelmed or dysregulated.
So that's where you start tosee some of the trickier
behaviors like meltdowns andemotional outbursts coming up.
They'll also parents also talkabout how their kid has this
(06:01):
kind of need to like controleverything.
They'll start to want tocontrol situations and
relationships, interactions, andthat's often connected to when
we have a nervous system that'sreally dysregulated.
The quickest way to establishsafety inside of the nervous
system is to try to like gaincontrol.
So parents will say, oh my gosh, it's like my kid wants to
(06:22):
dictate everything that'shappening at home and some of
those other kind of typical oneslike forgetfulness, daydreamy.
They're unable to focus andconcentrate on things for long
periods of time, especially whenthey're not interested in it.
They'll just like kind ofwander off.
You know, it's like they're notinterested in it.
But if they love it, you know,if they love Lego or they love,
(06:43):
you know, whatever they're doing, it's like zoning on the hyper
focus, yeah, and you'll see themhaving that difficulty sleeping
, you know, resting, anythinglike that.
Some of those less commonbehaviors that I see a lot in
the ADHD Thrive Instituteprogram that I do some work with
is kids seem to find it hard tobe bored.
(07:09):
I don't know if that's come upin the past, like where it's
like they find it hard toactually just be in, yeah, in
boredom, and I think some ofthat is around the dysregulation
that's chronically in theirnervous system.
It's like kind of hard for themto be with that right.
So they always want that kindof either dopamine hit or
distraction.
They can get really fixated andstuck on things like their
(07:33):
frustration.
Tolerance can be quite low anda big, big one I see across all
of my work in the programs isshame-related behaviors for kids
who experience ADHD.
So they can often have a lot ofnegative talk, you know, or
they'll project onto the adultsor their siblings where it's
like I hate you, you're stupid,and they try to make everyone
(07:54):
around them feel how they likelyfeel.
So I can't remember who foundthe statistical research, but
it's something like they havefound that kids with ADHD end up
with 20,000 more negativemessages than their peers.
Wow, at the age of like 12 soyou know they're getting these
(08:14):
negative kind of input all thetime about just their behaviors
are always being corrected whenyou think about it at home and
at school.
So we see a lot of shame showup and shame is like that.
I'll talk worse to it as we go,but it's that they don't feel.
They feel like they're a badkid.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yes, I can imagine they feel like they can't do
anything right and, yeah, thatnegative sort of feedback, yeah,
it doesn't help, and so much ofwhat you just said sounds
familiar.
I've got teenagers.
Sounds familiar in the teenparenting like the struggling to
be bored, the, you know,needing to have control.
So, although I'm sure lots ofparents that are listening will
(08:52):
resonate with so much of whatyou're talking about, if they do
have kids that have beendiagnosed with ADHD or have ADHD
type behaviours, I think youknow a lot of it is relevant for
even just general parenting,right.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, because it's like, yeah, so much of it is
just that emotionaldysregulation that kids
experience, and kids whoexperience ADHD often have quite
like a more sensitive nervoussystem.
I talk about I know Gabor Matetalks about it in a lot of his
work around ADD that, yeah, kidswho experience ADHD and ADD
(09:24):
tend to have a highly sensitive,easily activated nervous system
.
And what's really interestingis that's where you'll often see
, um, adhd behaviors showing upin different contexts.
So some parents will be likehow come they're so really great
at school but they're likelosing it at home?
Or they're really struggling atschool, but okay, at home, like
(09:44):
it can be in.
The behaviors can show updifferently across situations,
which can be really confusingfor adults and kind of
frustrating.
Um, but that has to do with,like what, the relational and
emotional input that the child'skind of experiencing and it
affects their, yeah, theirability to kind of regulate
those moments yeah, yeah,definitely so helpful.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
So obviously there's a lot that parents are dealing
with.
So where do you recommend thatparents start when wanting to
help their kids with ADHD,particularly when it comes to
that sensitive nervous system,that dysregulation?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Yeah, Well, I think the best place to start.
And look, I would imagine a lotof your listeners just are
slightly sit outside thatmainstream.
Right, they're here to do theyunderstand the importance of
nutrition.
But I always say to parents Ireally start with being open to
thinking about ADHD slightlydifferent to that really
(10:39):
traditional medical mainstreammodel, right, and expanding
their thinking around.
Okay, what could becontributing, what could be
exacerbating these ADHD basedbehaviors and symptoms?
It's like what's below thesurface, yeah, so like that kind
of curiosity, and even thoughyou know there's some research
to show there are genetic likemarkers and components to ADHD,
(11:04):
we know that the environment canswitch on genes and switch them
off.
You know that epigenetic stuff.
So you know thinking like whatelse could be going on for my
kid, what's sitting below andwhen we can start to be curious
around what's underneathbehaviors we can look at?
Okay, we address that.
Can we reduce some of theintensity and the frequency?
Speaker 1 (11:24):
I love that.
So it's not just like oh well,they addressed that.
Can we reduce some of theintensity and the frequency?
I love that.
So it's not just like, oh well,they've got ADHD.
It's like looking at them moreas an individual and what's
going on for them in that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Yeah, absolutely.
And so some of those factors Ioften say to parents okay, start
with thinking about everythingfrom which you were doing a lot
in your program is inflammation,what's the toxin exposure?
What's the diet, what's the guthealth look like, what's their
inflammation level?
Because we know thatinflammation, which also can
come from stress if families arereally stressed right
(11:54):
inflammation will keep thatnervous system at a really
sensitive level so become quiteeasy to become activated.
Um, you know everything fromlike lack of time in nature and
low physical activity, excess,too much screen time all of that
can exacerbate ADHD as well.
Our classroom cultures can oftenexacerbate ADHD.
(12:17):
You know, is it?
You know what bits are workingfor kids and what isn't.
Things like unresolved,unresolved lived experiences.
So you know, we know ournervous systems hold like the
imprints and in our blueprint ofour whole lived experiences,
our whole lives.
So things like grief and loss,divorce, trauma, attachment
(12:38):
disruptions, social exclusion,you know the list goes on.
That stuff can sit with kiddoswho experience ADHD, who are
more sensitive, and so theyagain can contribute to that
more sensitive nervous systemover time if those experiences
really haven't kind of been Idon't know if resolved is the
right word, but integrated in away and they've made sense of
(12:58):
their emotions around them andthe beliefs that their child
carries about themselves.
So that shame is a hugeexacerbator that sits underneath
behaviours and that child feelslike, oh my gosh, I'm going to.
Yeah, I might fail, I'm goingto get it.
Yeah, I'm getting it wrong.
I'm always in trouble.
Maybe I am the bad kid.
You know, when that even gets alittle bit touched upon, we can
(13:21):
see kids fly into like bits ofrage, blaming someone else or
lying.
You know that sort of thing.
I had a parent this morningactually said her little one was
doing a test at school andhanded it into the teacher and
he's got ADHD.
And the teacher looked at itand it was blank and she just
said, oh, kiddo, did you, didyou find it really hard to
(13:41):
concentrate on this today?
I know that sometimes yourbrain makes it really tricky and
you just started to well up andhe's just like couldn't.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
He's just like I couldn't do it, you know, and
her response would be beautiful,but that's not often the
response sometimes I can imagineyeah, it's like a different
teacher would have would havehad a completely different
response, which would have ledto that sort of cycle of shame,
wouldn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
yeah, and for him it was just like he actually feared
he was just going to get itwrong and he was stupid.
So he was like I'm not going totry so again.
Those that can even likecontribute to like that
difficulty concentrating andthat that executive functioning
lag, and I'm not sure parents,who are listening if they.
There's a really cool statisticaround executive functioning,
(14:23):
so you might have a kiddo.
A really cool statistic aroundexecutive functioning, so you
might have a kiddo, let's say,who's 11, who has adhd.
That might be theirchronological age, but their
executive functioning age andtheir emotional developmental
age, um, they reckon, is about30 percent lower than their
peers, like on average, right,so you might have an 11 year old
, but they're sitting aroundnine.
Or you might have anine-year-old who's sitting
(14:45):
around six, and so it's likeadjusting those expectations.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
I was just going to say that really helps parents
and teachers, hopefully, andcarers really adjust those
expectations, which can be a, Iguess, a positive thing for that
cycle of shame.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Like when they feel betterabout who they are and don't
feel like they're, yeah, beingcorrected as much, then they can
, yeah, start to move throughsome of that shame.
Yeah, I parents often go reallylike they're that much younger.
So it's like even those littlekindy ones who start you're five
and six, said to a parent theother day.
(15:22):
I'm like you know thatemotionally development, she's
probably sitting around four andthey're like, oh, that makes
sense with the meltdowns, like,yeah, you know, is it's there's
been a bit of a lag in thatdevelopment, or when things have
been really chronicallystressful in homes, um, yeah,
it's kind of like unfinisheddevelopmental tasks.
Let's say, yeah, those kiddos.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So if a parent's listening that are, like you
know, light bulbs going on, ohmy gosh, like I'm maybe
contributing to that shame thatmy child feels, but I guess not
knowing how to get out of thatcycle, like feeling like the
child does need to be corrected.
You know they can't behave inthat way or whatever it might be
(16:05):
like.
Any tips on that?
Speaker 2 (16:08):
um.
The first one is like, giveyourself some grace, parents.
Like it is hard, like I um,yeah, I work with parents who
literally show up, who are justcompletely overwhelmed at tears,
like it is so tough, like everyday.
Um, I had a mama a couple weeksago say like every single
(16:29):
interaction feels like a battle.
I can't get him to doeverything, anything you know.
So it's like what you're upagainst is really tough.
So I do want to acknowledgethat to parents, that it is, and
I would say to parentsacknowledge what their
experience has been like as well.
Sometimes there's some grief init.
Like parents, it's not thereality you want to be in.
It might not be the timelineyou want to be in and you might
(16:52):
be grieving like that.
This is not what I thoughtparenting would be, especially
if it's been like prolongedstress in the family.
It's like, yeah, it's really,really tough and so have a lot
of compassion for yourself.
But also also, we aren't gonnaget it right all the time, we're
not gonna be perfect as parents, and so when we show up in a
way, then we go oh, I'veunintentionally shamed my kid or
(17:15):
oh, my gosh, I've correctedthem like 50 times you can go
back and do repair, like that'sthe beauty of it.
You go back and you do repairand it's like you know what I
flipped my earlier.
I was really frustrated and Icompletely yelled at you.
Actually, it probably wouldhave made you feel not very good
about yourself.
I still really need you to packyour school bag, you know.
It's just like we could stillhold those firm boundaries and
(17:36):
limits and still hold space forour children's emotional
experience of that boundary andlimit, because kids do,
especially kids with adhd.
They need a lot of scaffoldingon those skills.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
I think it's dr becky talksabout.
People know her.
(17:56):
Um, kids are born with all thefeelings and none of the skills
right that's a good way to lookat it yeah, yeah, they're born
like little emotional things butnone of the skills, so we have
to scalp all those skills, andkids with ADHD often need a lot
of prompts and a lot ofreminders.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
Um, yeah, and some big firm boundaries and limits
which is exhausting for parentslike parents that are already
you, you know feeling likethey're just keeping, maybe just
keeping their head above waterin their busy sort of lives.
So, yeah, I love that youacknowledge that you know it's
tough for parents and we don'twant it to become shame for us,
(18:39):
although I'm sure you know it isfor a lot of parents.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean.
So I actually had a parentactually in our coaching call
this morning who just was like Ifeel so judged or oh my gosh, I
feel like I can't get anythingright.
Maybe I'm not getting it right.
How about?
You know and I think, as someof us, many of us, as mums,
often have that moment of likehave I ruined my child?
Oh my gosh, I've done it.
It's like pause, you are doingthe best you can with the
(19:08):
resource and the knowledge thatyou have.
Yeah, like we are doing thebest we can with the knowledge
and resource we have, and if wecould be doing better, we would
be, um, I think, yeah, and it'slike when you can, you'll get
there right.
Just like listening to some ofthis stuff, even if a few things
(19:28):
land on a parent today, okay,I'm going to be mindful of that,
moving into my parenting,that's just part of your process
.
And, again, it's like if youcould turn a light switch on and
not have that parentalfrustration.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
We would right, like how many of us?
Speaker 2 (19:41):
be like, oh, I wish I didn't have motherhood rage
today.
Well, it's there, so how do wejust be with it with a little
bit of kindness and do repairwhen we need right, because it
is really exhausting and it canactually um, it can burn out a
parent's nervous system, likeparents who are parenting
neurodiversity.
(20:01):
That's really exacerbated adhd.
They do tend to be the parentswho go into compassion, fatigue
and burnout or stay in that likehyper arousal, flight, state
ourselves as parents right, andthose chronic fight modes or
just crash and burn because itis really tricky.
So, yeah, I was like how do weget there?
(20:22):
So, like, self-care is a hugething, which I know, yeah,
keeping your own like filling upyour own cup.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
As a, as a parent, that's definitely my motto for
these teen years, which aretricky in a in a different, but
you know like if you're going tobe able to cope with whatever
the kids throw at you in anyparticular day, you know, I
think the most important thingis to keep your own yeah,
self-care practices up and keepyour own cup full.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, because it's like if we're empty, how can we
turn up to our kids' strugglesin the way that we need?
And this often can happen.
It can be like a bit of adynamic.
That happens is that we end upkind of with low resource and so
when things are stressful, wereally we kind of unconsciously
want our kids to turn up in theway that helps us.
We want compliance.
(21:09):
Like how much easier wouldcompliance be.
You didn't have to sit andconvince your toddler to put on
shoes.
Like we want our kids to turnup to the space.
Like that just makes it easierfor us.
Then other times it's like,actually, okay, I've got to turn
up to their struggles in a waythat's going to be helpful.
It's that kind of longer routeof parenting.
It's like the true emotionalregulation.
(21:32):
Because I often say to parentsyes, compliance would be great.
Um, but compliance doesn'tbuild true emotional regulation
for a kid.
It actually just teaches themthey need to do what.
I would say yeah, like it's.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
It's an interesting conversation to think about how
yeah, exactly like it'ssomething that we wish for as
parents.
Like why don't they just dowhat I say?
Um, but I love that you saidthat it's not really building
any helpful skills for our kidsif they're just doing what we
say yeah, it's like we really,truly want them to develop that
(22:06):
emotional regulation which thenhas the flow-on effect to them
having self-discipline.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
They will become more cooperative, they'll learn
taking turns, like, like they'llget there.
But they need that emotionalregulation development first,
and all the research shows thatemotional regulation development
initially comes from.
It comes from co-regulation.
Children need to haveconsistent, repetitive
experiences of adultsco-regulating them, meaning they
(22:34):
kind of like essentially haveto borrow our nervous system for
quite some time and that's justanother vote for why we need to
make sure we're, as you know,as regulated as as possible,
right?
Speaker 1 (22:47):
yeah, wow, so so interesting.
Um, so tell us a bit more aboutthe parenting framework that
you see that works best for kidswith ADHD.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah, I was like I feel like we've, yeah, kind of
gone a little bit, so like, howdo we tie this all together?
So, yeah, I guess I call itlike an ADHD specific parenting
approach, and some people mightget the sense already.
It's a little bit of a flavor.
There is some conscious-basedparenting in it.
I kind of like to think aboutit as having three parts, and
(23:25):
that first one is the parentingmindset.
Okay, so, like our mindset,going into parenting a kid with
ADHD is huge, which is kind ofwhat I spoke to around, like
getting real with where they'reat in their executive
functioning, kind of thinkingabout what's all, what could be
behind their behaviors, etcetera.
And one of the best kind oflittle mantras that seemed to
land well in for parents who'vegot kids with ADHD is Dr Ross
(23:46):
Green's work.
He wrote the Explosive Childand he talks about kids do well
when they can.
It's like if we can reallytruly start to step into that as
a police, like kids do wellwhen they can.
It's like if we can reallytruly start to step into that as
a place, like kids do well whenthey can, as opposed to kids do
well if they want to.
Because when we are in thatparenting belief that oh okay,
kids do well, only they if theychoose to, as opposed to
(24:09):
actually, kids do well when theycan, and if they're not doing
well, it's usually becausesomething's getting in the way
that's a massive mindset shifthuge and it can be a really
tricky one, because we were allparented, most of us, from the
framework and society isconditioned us to go no, no, no.
Kids do well if they wanna.
So let's just make them want todo better, let's do punishment,
(24:32):
let's do consequences, let's doyou know, um, yeah, so when we
actually go, no, they've got asensitive nervous system.
It's highly activated, they'vegot some neurodiversity.
The way they experience theworld's differently, um, lots of
kids with adhd.
Because of that sensitivenervous system, they do tend to
have more food sensitivities,allergies, um, the gut health
(24:55):
difficulties.
They're sensitive to sensoryexperiences.
Like I said, their whole body,mind, just you know physicality
just experiences the world moresensitively, if that's a word
differently.
And so when we can really go,okay, my kid's not giving me a
hard time, they're actuallyhaving a hard time.
This isn't about us as parents,it's not you right.
(25:18):
It's like and it's really toughnot to take it personally as a
parent.
It's like, no, actually there'ssomething getting in the way
and this is what they're showingup as.
Um.
I do truly believe that allchildren's behaviors are a form
of communication.
Yeah, so like having themindset if I go back to like,
okay, that three kind of pillarsto the ADHD specific parenting
(25:39):
is like we got to have the rightmindset and then it is really a
relationally and emotionallyresponsive approach.
So it really focuses onconnection and understanding
whilst holding limits, verysturdy limits and boundaries, as
opposed to really focusing onthat like traditional-based
(26:00):
parenting of compliance,punishment, because we know that
exacerbates shame, etc.
Yeah, and that real, you know,scaffolding of skills.
It's like you got your mindsetand it's like okay, we respond
from more of an emotionally,yeah, responsive approach.
So I don't know if people haveheard of, I don't know if you've
heard of it.
Just that connection beforecorrection.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Yes.
I was thinking about thatbefore when you were saying, you
know that cycle that we can getin like always correcting, and
I've recently been in that withmy 17 year old son.
You know like, and I've got tocatch myself and be like okay,
how can I connect with himbefore I correct him again?
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, yeah.
So it's like connect to theiremotion, connect to their in
relationship, and then corrector instead of correct sometimes
right Sometimes that theconnection does the correction
right.
Exactly.
Sometimes it's enough to dothat regularly because, like, we
are actually the biggest toolthat our children have well,
(27:01):
even into adolescence, because,as I said, they need to borrow
our nervous system for such along period of time to build
those neuropathways in theirbrain and bodies, for their
regulation, so they like pluginto us, they can drain us
emotionally.
I had a mom once say to me likeshe's a little emotional
vampire.
(27:21):
She just comes in totallydrains me, and then she's like
good and regulated, but I'm flaton the floor.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, I'm sure lots of parents can resonate with
that feeling Like, hang on whathappened.
I'm feeling so flat now.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, like, take everything from me.
So, yeah, it is that and it isyeah.
So it's a really relational,responsive kind of parenting
approach.
It's the mindset shift andholistic.
So, as I said, it really looksat what are the other factors
that are sitting you knowparenting is huge but also
looking at, okay, how else can Ireduce that intensity and
(27:54):
frequency of the symptomsthrough the natural kind of,
yeah, health Everything from?
I mean, there's great resultsaround like chiropractic stuff
for kids with ADHD and cranialsacral therapy and kinesiology
and you know people looking intothat more alternative,
complementary type of approachesas well into that more
(28:17):
alternative, complementary typeof approaches as well.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
Yeah, so much that you know complementary health,
natural health, can offer interms like to support kids with
ADHD, and that's what we're sortof always harping on about.
And you know, like, for a goodexample of that, like, if you're
so, additives you know, foodadditives can be very triggering
for a lot of kids with ADHD.
So if your kid's diet is fullof additives, you know, no
(28:41):
matter what sort of parentingapproach you're taking, you know
that you're coming in with likeit's going to be tricky.
So I love that you brought inthat sort of, you know, that
holistic side of diet and itcomes back to basics a lot of
the time.
You know it's a good whole fooddiet, it's movement, it's good
sleep, it's not too much screentime.
All of those things can add upto make a huge difference, can't
(29:01):
they?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, absolutely.
And, as you said, like they'llI mean so many of the kids I see
is like, yeah, they'recompletely riddled with
inflammation.
And, as you said, it's likeparents have to go.
Your parenting approach isn'tworking.
I'm like, define working.
It's not making them calm down,it's not making them stop.
I'm like have we done the otherpiece of the puzzle?
And it's like I still want toencourage parents that, if it's
(29:24):
not shifting right away, keepshowing up in these parenting
approaches because it doesreduce that shame that they're
experiencing.
Over time.
It's going to strengthen yourrelationship, you know, because
it's like what's the alternative?
They're struggling and if wecome in with more distress, you
know, and, yeah, evenunintentional shame, but it's
(29:45):
like, okay, even when you do thefood bit, yeah, it's hard to
explain.
So, yeah, how do you do them inparallel at times?
Yeah, because it's like keepshowing up, this is the long
route of parenting.
The at times, yeah, cause it'slike keep showing up, this is
the long route of parenting.
The agenda isn't to use empathyor naming their emotion to calm
down.
It's like, you know, often sayhave you tried naming?
You know, try naming theiremotion.
Like, oh my gosh, you're really, really angry now that I've
(30:06):
turned off the TV and you reallywant that screen time.
Yeah, I know it's like sounfair that I've said no, no,
still can't let you have thatice cream before dinner.
But you're really, really sadand the kid's having this big,
explosive meltdown and it's likeyour parenting approach didn't
work.
I'm like it's about holdingspace for the meltdown so that
(30:27):
your child has the experience offeeling seen, heard and
acknowledged, no matter how theyshow up, and eventually, with
consistency consistency they'relike oh, my parent does kind of
get it and it does start to justlike I said, that frequency and
intensity will reduce.
Yeah, even with just theparenting.
But gosh, you add the holisticstuff in and it's like you're
(30:48):
doing all the pieces.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
It all comes together .
Yeah, and I love that you saidthat, because you know I think a
a lot of parents can haveunrealistic expectations.
I know I certainly have in thepast.
Where you like, learn thisamazing parenting strategy like
that, reflecting the emotionthey're feeling and in the
moment you can feel like, well,it's not working.
So, yeah, it's not aboutworking, like it's not that
(31:11):
quick fix, is it?
You know, like you said, it'sabout holding space.
It might not be working, butthey are still feeling heard and
validated in that moment andthen over time, that definitely
works.
And it's funny, now that I'vegot, you know, cheeky teenagers
and I try to reflect backemotions to them, they'll be
like I know what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
I know, I know I've got lots of clients who the kids
will um say to the parents whyare you sounding like Ashley
right now?
We kind of this is a good thingbecause it's like even when
they're onto you, it's like theyknow you're showing up
different.
So it's like we're shifting thedynamic, we're doing something
different.
Yeah, and like empathy andemotion, coaching it's.
(31:52):
It's not meant to be used as atool to get your kid to comply.
It's meant to be a tool toleave your child feeling seen,
heard and acknowledged so thatthey develop more resilience
over time and build, you know,that positive sense of self,
identify their.
Eventually, then the kid I love.
Like when parents come back amonth later or so and they're
like my kid just said they weresad'm like great, that's
(32:15):
progress.
They said they were sad.
Still may have had a bit of ameltdown.
They said they were sad.
Like that's huge, it's massivebut they stomped their foot and
said I'm angry, amazing, youknow, like slow progress, but
it's like when you're undoing,yeah, those, or you're not
undoing, when you're buildingthat emotional regulation.
It can take time for kids whoare sensitive and where there's
(32:38):
already been some, yeah,unhelpful patterns that have
happened for them.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah, Definitely, and it's not like a thing that you
sort of get you know you likeright, right, I've nailed that
and now everything's calmforever in my home.
Emotions still happen.
It's just about how we cansupport our kids to regulate
them, isn't it?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:59):
absolutely.
And yeah, like acknowledgingour own emotions as well as
parents, because certainbehaviors are going to trigger
us more than other behaviors.
Yes, which could be a wholeother podcast around why our own
stuff that shows up.
But I often say to parents okay, what gets your stuff that's
showing up?
You?
Know, it's like yeah, and, andgiving yourself that kind of
(33:19):
grace and acknowledging oh yeah,this is really tough in the
moment.
Um, but it's not an emergency.
I can do this.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
I can ride the wave of emotion, yeah yeah, and I
think just something I've beenpracticing again recently is
sort of pausing before I respond, because I'm definitely finding
, you know, the teenage behavior, like through these teenage
years, a lot, a lot oftriggering and just being aware
that, okay, this is triggeringfor me, like and just pausing
(33:47):
before you like sort of respondabsolutely we'll end up reacting
from that place ofdysregulation in ourselves as
opposed to going okay, this ismy nervous system, recognizing
something is not safe.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Might not even have to do with my kid, could be a
past nervous system imprint frommy own childhood, or you know,
I'm feeling, yeah, whatever'shappening to me, pause, and then
going, okay, how does my kidneed me to turn up to this right
now?
What's going to be helpful?
And it's like we want to givekids the message especially in
teenagers as well that we've gotthis, we can be the sturdy
(34:24):
anchor when they're wobbling.
It's like how do we stay sturdywhen they're wobbling?
Because if we start to wobbletoo, they don't get the
relational, the experience ofrelational safety that they need
to develop that regulation,yeah, and we can leave them
feeling really seen, heard andvalued, like I would say that's
like the main thing we reallywant to do for our kids in those
(34:46):
interactions Like how do Ileave feeling really seen, heard
and acknowledged for all partsof them?
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Yes, so true.
I love that.
I'm getting lots of greatreminders for myself, and I
don't even have kids with ADHD,so I think this is so helpful,
like I said earlier, like forparenting in general.
I think parents that areparenting kids with ADHD are
just sort of that next levelthan what the rest of us might,
(35:13):
sort of experience, but, yeah,super helpful.
I'm sure the listeners thathave kids with ADHD are finding
it really helpful as well.
So let's, can we just go backto executive functioning?
I know you talked about thatearlier.
Can you explain what that isfor people who might not know
and share some practicalstrategies for executive
functioning?
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, so definitely got a few little tips and
strategies.
Um, in terms of how to explainit, it's it's kind of explained
where there can be a little bitof a lag in parts of the
thinking brain.
So when you think aboutchildren and adults, but
children's brains, we've got, um, yeah, we've got our thinking
brain.
Then we have our emotion brainand we've got our brainstem, so
(35:55):
brainstem, our emotion brain,and we've got our brain stem.
So brain stem and survivalbrain is where we see the fight,
fight, freeze.
We have our emotion brain,where you'll see lots of
different emotions.
Thinking brain is where, like,it's called the cortex for those
who love the neuroscience ofprefrontal cortex um, but it's
really in charge of, like,everything from language to
problem solving, decision making.
(36:16):
Um, yeah, concentration, focus,etc.
Regulation kind of yeah, animpact regulation as well,
depending on the right side andleft side of the brain, can get
kind of cool.
But to think about, but it'sreally, yeah, kids with adhd can
struggle obsessing parts of thethinking brain quickly.
It's almost like sometimes Isay to parents like can be like
(36:37):
patchy wi-fi.
Yeah, you know, the teenagersare trying to get wi-fi on the
phone.
It's like in and out.
It's like they want to kind ofget to that, but it can be
really tricky.
So it can impact like workingmemory.
You'll see like so childrenwith adhd can often really only
hold like two instructions at atime.
Yeah, so they'll often need alot of prompts.
(36:58):
You know they might need you toactually really go to them and
go hey, I need you to do thisnow rather than hauling it from
across the house.
It can be something reallyhelpful around having like a
clean, decluttered space thatdoesn't feel chaotic and a
designated area for importantthings, because they can be
quite forgetful.
It's like can you go and dothis and do this?
(37:20):
That might be all they canmanage.
Yeah, um, um.
And yeah, that kind of easilydistract as well if you're not
interested in it.
Um, even like recall can be abit tricky at times.
So we want to be really clearin our expectations.
Um, rhythms and like littlerituals can be really helpful
(37:45):
throughout the day.
So, like we talk a lot aboutroutines super great but rituals
and rhythms, like having littlerituals where it's like before
dinner we light a candle as afamily or put on our favorite
song, or in the morning, aftereveryone's ready, we do mindful
coloring like almost likemarkers throughout the day that
feel meaningful, that kind ofkeep them knowing that there's
(38:05):
an ebb and flow, so it helpsthem feel kind of contained,
grounded.
We want to like also turn downstimulation in the house where
we can.
Um, they might need a lot ofvisual things like a visual
calendar.
Images as opposed to lots andlots of words, right, um, a
visual routine.
A lot of kids with adhd alsohave that comorbidity around,
(38:29):
like dyslexia and dyscalculia aswell.
I'm dyslexic, so how do I putthat in which often gets missed.
So, yeah, but sometimes readingand all the numbers and words
will jump out.
They need a lot of physicalmovement, wind down breaks.
You know that can really helpkind of reset those parts of the
brain.
And they do love that kind ofcreative I mean most kids do
(38:52):
creative dance, music, you know.
Cooking, that kind of freenatural play, team sports,
martial arts-based skills havealso really shown that kind of
help, that kind of increase andboost those executive
functioning skills.
Yeah, and the reduction and Iand it's really tricky um, low
(39:13):
levels of screen time, becausescreen time can really really
impact kids with ADHD, keepsthem in the dopamine loops and
the younger the child is as wellit can actually bring on.
Um, yeah, bring on the leftside of the brain too quickly,
and yeah, or the way itscaffolds up.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
So such a challenging one because I think it's
probably like a bit of a um,like it helps in the moment,
right like absolutely.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
When you're burnt out and stressed as a parent
parenting a kid with ADHD,sometimes the only break you
feel like you get is when thekid's on the screen.
Yeah, yeah, that's a tricky one, like getting up those kind of
habits, because it's likesometimes, yeah, then they're
dysregulated for the rest of theafternoon.
But, yeah, getting them outsidein nature as much as possible,
(40:07):
on the trampoline and dependingon age, like some of the tips
and tools and there's so muchstuff online around how to help
kids with executive functioningas well it's like you might
choose what's the age of my kid,what's going to land?
Some kids are like parents havebig, beautiful whiteboards with
all these different images andthey're like they just forget to
look at the whiteboard everymorning, Like, oh, that's not
working.
Okay, Get creative again.
You know, it's like what'sgoing to work for my kiddo.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Yes, it's different for every child.
And when you're talking aboutthat physical activity gosh,
I've seen time and time again inthe clients and members that we
work with like more physicalactivity, more outside time in
nature makes such a hugedifference, especially like
before school.
If kids are struggling to sitand concentrate and you know
(40:51):
which obviously is expected atschool, like if they can get
some physical activity in beforeschool, that can just change,
you know, make have a massivepositive impact.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Huge and time for like mindfulness and practicing
mindfulness Because remember Iwas saying they find it really
hard to be bored or they find ithard to be still.
Sometimes It's's like you mighthave to do it with them before
they're able to do it as welland like even opportunities to
increase their um experientiallearning, like using hands and
visual and touch, as opposed tothe sitting and learning and
(41:24):
listening right like what arethe other opportunities for
learning?
Kids with adhd need that moreum, more sort of hands-on,
totally yeah, yeah, whichunfortunately we know mainstream
school doesn't.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
I know we nurture for our kiddos yeah, yeah yeah, but
again it's like I guess youknow, where possible, making
good choices in terms of, youknow, schooling and that sort of
thing.
That's obviously a whole, awhole another, another topic, um
, yeah, but thank you forsharing more about executive
functioning and how we can kindof support that in in ADHD kids.
(41:57):
So what about some, like wetalked about the regulation,
like the dysregulation?
I think this is huge for forkids with ADHD.
So parents like some tips forparents to increase kids'
self-regulation and, I guess,reduce those tricky behaviors.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, so, yeah, we talked about connection before
correction.
That can be such a good one.
So it's like, you know,connecting with them and just
saying their emotion as Idescribed her, it's like, yeah,
you're really, really angryright now.
You're mad at me because I'vedone that so, like sharing their
emotions out loud, um, you know, again, giving them that
message that we can stay sturdywhen they're, you know, wobbling
(42:37):
and it's also naming theiremotions but finding in
ourselves to have that likegenuine empathy and compassion
for how they feel, when we canmuster it up, um, and, yeah,
some days we're gonna need towrite, ride it out, like
sometimes it's like we're ridingthe emotional meltdown and the
outburst and working on our owntriggers and our own parental
(43:03):
nervous system, I would say islike probably the most important
thing when we want to supportkids with ADHD, to build
regulation, and it's actuallyfascinates me every time.
You're like, when we canactually get it together a
little bit, when we can lookafter ourselves, when we can get
the support we need and show updifferent, it has such a ripple
(43:25):
effect.
Yeah, I think the other reallybig one is how do you hold a lot
of parents go?
How do I hold those sturdyboundaries and limits, yeah, and
still hold space for theiremotional experience.
I think that's like a really bigone, it's a tricky balance to
get right, isn't it?
you don't always want to.
Just, you know, yeah, we'renaming all the emotions if it's
like but how do we also thenlike, invite accountability and
(43:46):
teach our kids what you knowmost of them know what's okay
and not okay, but it's like, um,I think Dr Becky again talks
about it around how do we stayin that parental authority, but
with kindness, like we want tostep into constantly our
parental power?
So, because often a lot ofparents say with kids with ADHD
(44:09):
that the child is dictating theatmosphere of the home, that
they're in charge, they'rerunning the show.
I hear those messages over andover again.
It's like, hey, how do we stepback up into?
No, actually we're the ones incharge and it's as simple as
going.
I can't let you hit your sister.
I'm not able to let you haveice cream for dinner.
(44:30):
I actually can't let you speakto me that way.
Yeah, you're so angry, you'rescreaming in my face and you're
swearing.
You know it's like I'm not ableto let you do that.
So I'm going to have to comeand take what you're about to
throw.
So it's like I can't let youscream in your sister's face.
So now I'm going to step rightin between you.
I'm going to help you with thisreally big feeling.
(44:51):
Yeah, I had a mom earlier thisweek.
That was like he was kickingand screaming and having a
really unsafe meltdown.
It's like it's riding the waveof, like it's my job to keep you
safe.
So I'm going to stay right nearyou, I'm going to help hold
(45:12):
your feet down, because I'mnoticing we're finding it really
hard to be safe.
You know, um, noticing what'scoming up for you as a parent,
and it's like I need.
I need to come in and help youpause your body, because you're
about to hurt someone.
If it's like at that level, yeah, which for a lot of families it
can escalate where kids are inthat fight mode pretty regularly
, um, or, as I said, they'reshowing up in what parents
experience as defiant, or it'slike another um apart and I was
(45:34):
going to say I might just finishholding the limits and
boundaries, and then you add onto that.
Hey, I can't let you do that.
I won't let you do that.
You just add on.
But I know you feel reallyangry about it.
It's okay for me to feel sadabout it.
You can be mad at me right now.
Yeah, it's like you, you know,acknowledging that they have an
(45:57):
emotional experience about thelimit you just set.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
yes, yeah, yeah, so you can do both at the same time
, absolutely, so, you're likeholding that and yeah, I think
where else I was going with thatyeah, well, I think I think
that in itself is super helpful,and I think it's really tricky
to get right, and I just lovewhat you said before about you
know, just acknowledging thatthis is tough for parents.
So, yeah, although you'veshared lots of you know, great
tips and strategies andinformation, it comes back to
(46:22):
like, I guess, acknowledgingthat this is tough for parents.
It's tough for the kids as welland, yeah, I guess, making sure
that we're looking afterourselves first and foremost.
I love that point you madeabout the co-regulation of the
nervous system.
I think that is super importantfor people to understand.
Speaker 2 (46:42):
Yeah, and as adults, like we yeah, we're kind of like
the heart of the family nervoussystem.
Most of the time, yeah, it'sthe mamas, like we're like the
beating heart of the wholefamily nervous system.
Like we have the impact andthen sometimes when you have a
kiddo who's really struggling,it can kind of dysregulate.
You know how, like nervoussystem, energy and emotions.
(47:03):
Emotions are so contagious andso we can become so whipped up
and in the dysregulation thatall of a sudden we're living a
life where it's like everybody'sreactive.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
And it can feel like a heavy responsibility for mums
and dads as well.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Yeah, huge and so it's like, okay, how do we get
into the new mindset?
How do we use the empathy andcuriosity as, like, what's
really going on for my kid?
Yeah, we can even use curiosityin the moment with kids where
it's like, hmm, like I wonder ifyou're screaming and yelling at
your sister because youactually feel really bad about
yourself right now, like we canacknowledge the shame, right,
(47:38):
and lots and lots of lots ofempathy.
Kids with ADHD who arestruggling, or any kids who are
struggling um, yeah, they reallyneed us to kind of be like hey,
I'm trying to get a glimmerinto what life is like for you.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
Yeah, I love that, and I think this is why the work
you do is so importantsupporting parents and kids.
So tell us more about the workyou do and where we can find you
, and I think you've got afreebie for our listeners as
well.
I do.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
I have a few freebies .
So for our listeners as well, Ido, I have a few freebies.
So, yeah, people can find me onInstagram Ashley Child
Therapies on Instagram, as wellas some of my works on the ADHD
Thrive Institute, and I do havea resource that's like five
(48:34):
powerful exercises to motivateand soothe your kid with ADHD.
So I do a lot of like somaticbase work, sensory and body work
with kiddos that can helpregulate their nervous system
Another great parenting tip andso that's a handout that gives
you and there's actually morethan five exercises I've put in
there, there's like 20 aroundyeah, what can uplift and
regulate kids, motivate them andwhat can soothe them.
(48:54):
And I've got another one onhelping kids build a positive
self-esteem and reduce thatshame over time.
So there's a little self-esteemtip sheet that I can give you
as well, just to share.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
So, so helpful, and I will make sure that we share
the links to those resources, aswell as your Instagram accounts
, in the show notes.
So for everyone listening headon over to our show notes, the
links will be in there.
Yeah, for you to follow alongwith Ashley's work.
I've loved this conversation.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast today
.
Head on over to our website,naturalsuperkidscom, for the
show notes for this episode, aswell as a whole heap of
inspiration to help you raisehealthy and happy kids.
I'll see you next week.
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