February 20, 2025 • 39 mins
TJBHpodcast@gmail.com
What if the essence of our internal struggles could be traced back to a simple word: coveting? In this enlightening episode, we promise you’ll gain a fresh perspective on how deep-seated desires can shape our emotions and actions. With a playful nod to British accents and their cinematic allure, we begin by examining "The Professor and the Madman," using it as a springboard to explore the uniquely internal nature of coveting as outlined in the Ten Commandments. We unravel the intertwined relationship between coveting and envy, shedding light on how these seemingly innocuous feelings can ripple through our lives and society.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
Justin, yeah, buddy.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How are you?
I'm uh, how are you?
I'm thumping good, something,good Thumping.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Thumping.
Good, that was my.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I watched um what was it?
Oh, uh, the, the professor andthe madman.
Do you know what this is?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, we read that book.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, like forever ago right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, the dictionary right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's about the making ofthe English dictionary the first
one.
It's a fantastic read.
There's a movie with Mel Gibsonin it.
And so I watched it last nightand everybody had an English
accent and he had a goodScottish accent, you know, which
was like William Wallace.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It was kind of hard to watch.
I'm like hmm, Just say the linefreedom Shave the beard, paint
your face blue.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Say it again.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, exactly, but anyway so.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I got British accent stuck in my head, but I will do
my best to avoid speaking in aBritish accent for the rest of
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I would appreciate it , I think we all would Govna.
All right, let's finish offthese 10 commandments.
Let's go.
I hope this has been satisfyingin some manner, dude, I've
enjoyed it.
I've actually liked talkingthrough them.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think that everybody hears about these
growing up in the church andthey're on some wall or
something, but nobody actuallytakes the time to think about
how this is literally God'sprescription for a flourishing
society.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know everybody's like yeah, yeah, yeah, do this,
Don't do this.
Yeah, yay, god Rules, no,exactly Rules, exactly Thanks or
rules.
This is actually God, like here.
This will help you not to killeach other.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, this will help you not to kill each other.
You're welcome.
I don't think we could talk somuch about just one line, one
sentence.
Do not steal, there's 45minutes for you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Tim, you underestimate my love for
nerdiness and theology.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You underestimate my genius.
I don't know if I'd call itthat, but some kind of weird
fixation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
you know, yeah, it's a condition.
I have a parasite, but I'll befine.
Anyways should I read thisthing?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, number 10 .
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Here we go.
You shall not covet yourneighbor's house.
You shall not covet yourneighbor's wife or his male
servant or his female servant,or his ox or his donkey, or
anything that belongs to yourneighbor.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
All right, specifically just those things.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, yep, that's it.
His car is fine, but you lookat his donkey too long.
By the way, in the KGV it's adifferent word and it's you know
I got a wicked heart, so prayfor me.
But no, it's really trying togive you a list, which is
interesting because, like Tim,you bring this up.
(02:54):
The other commandments are likeyou shall not murder.
It doesn't say this and thisand this and this.
It doesn't say you shouldn'tcommit adultery with Gina or Jim
or you know.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I was going to say I can imagine Don't murder your
wife, Everybody else.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It doesn't say don't steal this list, right.
It doesn't say you shouldn'tbear false witness.
You know, in these ways this isthe one where it's trying to
give you like a look at me, lookat me, this or that or that.
He might as well be standingoutside somebody's house
pointing at all of his stuffthat you've been ogling all day.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean it's very telling.
And what's weird about thiscommandment Tim is the other
ones are like externallyverifiable.
Yeah, all right so if you thinkabout stealing, you know if
somebody stole it or not.
You know hypothetically likethe item is gone.
He has it.
(03:48):
He doesn't Whether somebodyknows that or not, there's
physical evidence for it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
If you get murdered, you'd probably know it.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, stealing, murdering, lying it's all
external stuff.
This commandment is in acategory of its own in that it's
an internal thing the Lord istelling you not to do.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
All right, which will probably explain why he went
into a little more detail.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, it's at least, and remember, we talk about this
right, just because somethingis a sin doesn't make it a crime
, but this is what Jesus does.
When Jesus is talking aboutadultery and he's like listen,
if you've lusted after a womanin your heart, you've already
committed adultery, he's talkingabout adultery.
And he's like listen, if you'velusted after a woman in your
heart, you've already committedadultery.
If you're angry at your brother, you're guilty of murder.
Covening is that type ofcommandment where he's saying,
(04:31):
hey, hey, hey, I'm not talkingabout the action here.
I'm actually talking about yourown thought, life in your own
heart, which is prettyinteresting If you just consider
the implications of that.
This is not something thatsomebody else is going to be
able to look at you and say, oh,he's definitely doing this.
(04:51):
This is something between youand God that you were either
doing or you were not doing, andthe implications of doing this
wrong man it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What's the actions that get involved when you're
coveting over somebody else'sstuff?
It's an internal thing, but isthere an external?
I like to define like our world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The word I would use instead of coveting is envy.
Envy Like that, to me, is theword that really sums up like
what is actually happening.
What does coveting mean?
It is having a desire forsomething that is not yours,
that God didn't give you, and itcreates a hatred, a frustration
(05:36):
, an irritation with the personthat has those things.
Coveting never stops at I wantthis.
It always ends in and youshouldn't have it either, right?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
When you don't deserve it.
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it seeks to punish the person who does have
it.
In your behavior towards themor in your behavior towards God.
It's this really nasty thingwhere we don't just want what
they have.
We hate them for having it, Forhaving it.
That is what they have.
We hate them for having it.
That is what it is Ultimately.
Tim, if you look at Satan, thisis the hypothetical way that
(06:10):
Satan felt he sees God, eventhough he's a created being
that's perfect.
He wants what God has and inthat, becomes bitter rebels
against God and falls.
So you could say, oh, it's just, you know, it's pride.
Well, yes, ultimately pride isrebelling against God.
But what was it?
What was the mechanism here?
Desiring what somebody else hadand feeling as though, because
(06:34):
they have it, you should alsohave it.
It's a perverted form ofjustice, that kind of we have
going on inside of us.
Now I would like to maybe tella story in the Bible to help
play this out a little bit, ifyou're interested.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, one of my favorite texts in the Bible that
I feel like I bring up adnauseum so if you're like, oh no
, he's going there again, yes, Iam Cause I feel like it's so
important is the parable of thetalents.
Oh, yeah, okay, I feel likenothing brings this story home
more than understanding the 10thcommandment.
Okay, matthew 25,.
(07:15):
You have these three guys.
One gets five talents, one getstwo talents.
One gets one talent.
Okay, um, let's, let's paint itin the talent.
Okay, let's paint it in thestory that we have in our own
world.
Okay, so imagine you and twocolleagues.
You got a couple of coworkers.
You'll work at the same job foryears.
One day, the owner decides tosell the company and gives each
(07:38):
of you a small fortune.
All right, it's not, you didn'thave part of the company.
Ok, he just sells it and he'slike you guys have been great.
I'm dividing it up, I'm givingit, I'm giving it to you, but
instead of dividing it upequally, like one for one, one
colleague receives a massive sum, another gets half of that sum
(07:58):
and you receive a fraction ofeven what the second guy got.
Now you don't say anything,right, yeah, but inside you feel
maybe overlooked, frustrated,unworthy.
And the owner's decision maybewasn't personal, it wasn't a
vendetta, but it feels personal,does it not?
(08:20):
Yeah, I think when we tell thisstory externally, in the
framework of Matthew 25, really,yeah, god can do whatever he
wants to do.
You tell the story in theframework of our own lives.
You're like how dare he do thisparticular thing?
The scenario resonates with usbecause we all know what it's
like to feel left out orundervalued.
But the real issue isn'tfairness, it's the assumption
(08:43):
that we deserve what otherpeople have.
That's it.
We think.
If so-and-so has this, I shouldalso have this.
That is coveting.
And underneath all of it isthis profane idea of just what
we think we should have and what, uh, you know, compared to what
(09:06):
, what other people have.
And from childhood we expectfairness.
If only one person gets candyat the you know, at the
department store, two of yourother kids are going to freak
out you know what I mean.
Well, they got candy.
I should also have candy.
That that's actually not true.
Um, if someone is praised, weshould be excited about that.
If somebody in your life isbeing told, great job, you did
(09:30):
an amazing thing, we should alsowant to jump on board and say
man, you did way to go, greatjob.
But the thing in our heart thatis this breaking of the 10th
commandment is well, how comeI'm not getting praised?
How come this isn't happeningfor me?
We start comparing gifts,talents or blessing and we
rewrite a narrative in our headthat leads us from gratitude to
(09:51):
resentment when we ask ourselvesabout the motives of why it
happened and the deservedness ofthe person who received it.
Um, it's, it's messy, it's,it's rewriting the story.
Yeah, yeah, um, you could evensay it this way Envy tends to
distort your reality.
God gives good blessings.
He's deciding how things happenand where it's happening and
(10:14):
what's happening.
And in your head you're like no, they shouldn't get that.
I should get that.
I know better.
I'm going to rewrite this in myhead and now I'm bitter and
frustrated and I am the victimin my own story.
Okay, tim, enter Marxism.
All right, for those of youthat don't know what Karl Marx
was trying to do is show thatthe entire story of human
(10:38):
history is ultimately a strugglebetween those who have power
and those who do not, andrevolutions happen and all these
different things happen.
You have oppressor and thosewho are oppressed, you have
victims and victimizer, andthat's the story of all of
history.
The winners write the story,the losers continue to lose.
(11:00):
The winners continue to hoardpower, and until power is
equally distributed amongsteveryone, we will never have
peace.
That's kind of the story andyou can see how you know.
He was a child who gotfrustrated with his brothers and
sisters a lot, you know.
It's this perspective ofturning how things are and the
(11:24):
way things are written andwhat's being done into a weapon
against other people that helpsyou feel validated in your
feelings toward people that aretotally unjust and wicked.
Does the person with one talenthave the right to be angry at
God?
No, why?
(11:46):
Because it was a free giftalready.
So if you didn't know what theother guys received, you'd be
like this is the best.
Can you believe?
He sold off his business and Igot $200,000 of this thing.
Amazing, your buddy comes upand you're like man, I got
$500,000.
And you're like, okay, thisguy's a monster, right Like that
(12:06):
.
That is what our heart'scondition is.
That's what god does.
He blesses us, he gives us life, he gives us good things and,
uh, this distorted reality thatwe get with envy, man, oh my
gosh, it can just eat you aliveyou know I see this play out
when I watch pond star.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Sometimes when somebody brings in, like I just
want 100 bucks for it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And then it's like worth eight grand.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's like oh well, then I'll take $8,000.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Suddenly their chin comes up, their shoulders come
back.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It drives me crazy watching that show sometimes.
But to that point though, whenyou start coveting over your
neighbor's stuff.
Right, if I want thatbitterness, resentment builds up
.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Do you think it falls into this fear of?
Well, if I want what he has, Ineed to be like him.
I think it can become thatwhere you, so another I brought
up kind of this Marxism from aneconomic standpoint, but Marxism
, the way that we see it today,is being played out in race
right, so like if somebody is.
We talk about white privilege.
Ok, so this is ethnicGnosticism, which is what Woody
Bauckham, I think, coined thisphrase, but his idea is that
(13:29):
these people have a specificpower.
Therefore, white people won'tbe able to understand and are
outside of the realm ofcapturing or understanding that
information and therefore unableto fathom or resonate with what
it is.
Ok, I want to like fight thatright now, but I'm not going to
go there.
I want to like fight that rightnow, but I'm not going to go
(13:50):
there.
The idea that white people havea privilege OK, or just better
than have all this stuff is thisis this ultimate idea of envy
that because they are this way,they have all these extra things
and if they weren't this way,they would not have those things
.
But who gives, you know, thingsto people?
(14:11):
Who is the ultimate decider ofwho gets what and when and how,
and we would say God.
God, ultimately, is the one whogives blessing.
God is ultimately, the one thatputs people in particular times
and places in history, andoftentimes we just don't like
what he's doing and we come upwith reasons for why things
(14:32):
shouldn't be the way that theyare.
I say it all the time, butThomas Sowell has this quote.
He says the middle classdoesn't love the poor, they just
hate the rich.
It's not that they actuallywant to help people who have
less, they're just mad at thepeople who have more and they
leverage the people who haveless to try to get more for
themselves.
(14:52):
Yeah, it's pretty messy.
It's pretty messy.
So this, ultimately, tim, iswhy we have cancel culture too.
Okay, so you think about?
Somebody has a position ofpower.
If, if you want to think aboutit that way, I'm able to
communicate these things, saythese things, maybe on a podcast
(15:15):
or on a platform where I'm ableto speak to all these people my
opinion, and so somebody elsesays I don't want you to have
that platform, that platformbelongs to me, and so I will
leverage what I have to cancelyour voice so that I can get
what you have.
What is that Envy?
Ultimately, it's coveting.
You shouldn't have that.
(15:35):
I should have that.
It's mine now.
So I will silence anybody whothinks other than what I think,
even if they worked for that orhad this opportunity.
Cancel culture with businesses,tim, is like people who are.
You know, you're not allowed toespouse these things and if you
do espouse them, we'll cut yourfunding.
What is that?
No, no, no, no, no.
You have to go along with whatwe're saying and we should have
(15:57):
what you have.
How dare you be able to speakor defend these things when I
think you shouldn't be able to?
Now I'm taking them from you.
Envy is ultimately why thePharisees killed Jesus.
All right, he's got these largefollowings, he's speaking the
truth to people, he's doingmiracles and people are like
coming along and oh, this isgreat, and following him and not
listening to them.
(16:17):
And so why do they kill Jesus?
Ultimately, because the claimsthat he's making and the power
that he wields and the truththat he's speaking ultimately
are all things that they want tohold for themselves, and when
they can't have it, they'll killthe guy that does.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They lose the power for it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
A murderous heart.
Man is an envious heart andit's it's worth worth noting
that Not just like Cain and Abel, you know.
Yeah, well, think about this.
This turns you on your brother,right?
So that story in Matthew 25,the guy with the one talent says
master, I knew you to be a hardman, reaping where you did not
(16:56):
sow and gathering where youscattered no seed.
What is he saying?
You're a jerk.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm not doing what you said I was going to do.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then they're jerks because they took what
they shouldn't have taken.
You know what I mean.
But yeah, it's ultimately it'scomparison.
Yeah, cain and Abel, it's everyother story in the Bible of
conflict.
They have what I want We'llkill each other for it right.
When Jesus gives us the TenCommandment, he's ultimately
(17:24):
trying to communicate to us like, hey, this is a way to live
that will actually keep you fromblowing yourselves to pieces.
This is a way to live that willkeep you safe, because what's
happening on the inside of youwill eventually come out in all
these other ways.
If there's a commandment thatis closer to the 10th
commandment than any other 10,it's the first commandment.
(17:45):
Right?
It's to love the Lord, your God, like know him, follow him,
know his heart, what he's doing,because if you align your
values and your desires and whatyou're seeking with him, then
it doesn't come out in all theseweird kinds of profane ways.
Like, if you get that, god owesyou nothing.
It goes a long way for you andwe live in the wealthiest era in
(18:10):
history.
Yet we're still some of the mostdiscontent people on the entire
planet because we measureourselves against others instead
of seeing what we've beentrusted by with God.
We had all these self-helpthings and we got freaking
antidepressants like crazy andeverybody's like eating until
they're absolutely disgustingand fat.
(18:31):
And we all have housing and wejust we think we need more and
we're mad at everybody else fromhaving it and it's like dude,
god has given you so much morethan you deserve.
You could see yourself rightnow, what you look like from
God's perspective.
If I can see myself right nowand my wickedness and how God
sees me, I'd be like oh man, I'ma mess.
I got a lot of this in my bonesand it's not good People are
(18:53):
just bored.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's why you know what I mean, do you think?
I'm just trying to thinkthrough that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I just think they think that they know better than
God.
Yeah and um.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Or they're just sitting around waiting for God
to show up.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah sitting around waiting for God to show up.
Yeah, I was just listening tothis famous comedian.
I can't even pronounce his name.
Several of you would probablyknow it if I said his name but
he was talking about how he'slike the thing is real man.
He's like you get a bunch ofmoney.
No-transcript changes nothing.
(19:38):
The human condition stays thesame and it's it's worth noting
this man.
So the comparison that we haveand the the caricatures of life
that are painted by everyone ontheir social medias and the
pictures they display andeverything else, are these
beautiful like oh, look at me,and it's it's.
(20:00):
It's this perfectdiscontentment ground that envy
and covetousness grows in thateveryone is infected with.
If you think you don't havethis problem, listen to me, you
do.
Yeah, yeah, you do.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I remember several times after we got saved I was
getting that resentment towardsyou a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I remember that .
Was it because of my chest hair?
I confessed that a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Your hair in general.
Actually, okay, dig into this,tim, dig into this Because we
did a lot of the same stufftogether.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, we did you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And that was a blast, Don't get me wrong.
But I had to turn to this pointof everybody would kind of
trample over me to get to you,yeah.
So it was like what has he gotthat?
I?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
don't?
They wanted my donkeys.
What?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
has he got?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and it was worth it.
Am I not the same?
Like what genetic code that Godbless you with?
That I don't have, and I thinkthis was with my brother a lot
too.
You know what I mean.
He's a lot similar, kind oflike you you know what?
I mean Personality stuff.
But yeah, I started gettingthat way with you too, Cause I'm
like I want those things, youknow, and I feel like I'm doing
(21:07):
the same stuff, but yet I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I'm still the sidekick, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And it's.
It's funny because it's a goodthing to value what somebody
else can do and has.
It's another thing to want itfor yourself.
Right Like that.
You know, you see somebodywho's really good at something.
Have you ever seen somebodywho's like, uh, amazing, like
the crystal glasses, you knowwhat I mean.
Like they'll have like 50 ofthose crystal glasses out in
there that you know, with thefinger around the rim where it
makes like the, it makes thenoise.
(21:33):
You know what I mean.
Like playing the glasses, youknow.
Okay, I think that's awesome.
I don't want to be that person,you know what I mean.
I just think we have to applythat kind of mentality to
everything, just because ifsomebody is amazing at something
, it shouldn't be.
Gosh, I wish I could do that asmuch as it should be.
Man, that's amazing.
You could do that.
(21:54):
And now consider what is bestfor me, considering who God has
called me to be and made me tobe, and I've, I've learned that
I've you know yeah this is yearsand years ago, so it's worth
bringing is Jesus.
(22:15):
You know, in Matthew 25, jesustells these guys hey, well done,
good and faithful servants, youguys get to enter into the joy
of your master, these guys whoactually did something with what
they had.
But the other guy, the guy withone, the unfaithful servant, he
let comparison steal his joyand purpose.
Okay, so look, this isimportant that you hear this
(22:36):
right.
I'm going to say this is a goodline.
All right, Take this with you.
Envy doesn't just bury your gift, it buries your gift and it
buries you because God gives yousomething.
But if you get bitter andfrustrated and in your guts
you're like, well, I didn't getthat, I didn't get that, then
what you do?
What does this guy do?
He takes his gift and he goesand he buries it and by burying
(23:04):
the gifts and stuff that God hasgiven him, he eliminates
himself from having theopportunity to do something.
He buries himself, he burieshis gift and then he buries God,
because you're the one,ultimately, that stole from me
and didn't give me what I wanted.
Envy buries the person as muchas it buries the gift.
And you see this kind of in ourculture today a little bit Tim,
because there's so many peoplethat are upset and frustrated
with everyone else.
Everybody's watching the personwho's the greatest at this ever
(23:27):
on YouTube or whatever doingall this stuff, and then what do
they do?
Well, I won't even try because,well, I'm not like that, so I
can't.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I do that all the time Right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And what does it do?
Well, I have gifts, I do haveabilities, I am good at things,
but I'm not going to do itbecause I can't be them if it's,
if I'm not as good as that guy,then what's the point?
then what's exactly?
That's?
That's how envy gets you to buryyourself, because, ultimately,
the things that you could bedoing or how you could be
walking out of the fruitfulnessthat you could be having, um,
(24:00):
ends up being buried and and youdon't even give it a go, you
don't do anything with itbecause you feel like it can't
be what you, what you want it tobe.
You got to ask yourself like areyou missing out on fruitfulness
in your life Because you're sobusy comparing?
Are there things that, likegifts that God has given you
uniquely that you're too busylooking at everyone else so
you've decided not to use?
(24:22):
And is envy turning you into acritic instead of a contributor?
Are you the guy who isconstantly like oh, instead of
giving and helping be a part ofwhat's going on?
I just I spend all my timecritiquing everybody else and
telling them how not to do it,not because I'm actually helping
be valuable in the situation,but because I like reminding
(24:44):
other people that I know morethan they do.
It's just another kind of powerplay in that whole area, right?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I like what you said once about the talents, about
the guy who got the one.
You said this one time it waslike maybe God knew he could do
more with that one than theother two guys could do with
hers.
100%, I'm like that's such aninteresting thought.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, well, and is it possible that the five talents
you know what I mean that he'sgiven?
Is it possible that if he givesthat to the guy with the one,
it absolutely crushes him?
Yeah, and he actually he blowshis life up because he can't
deal with that kind of resource.
You know what I mean.
It's not something he's able todo.
Yeah, it's such a it's, it'ssuch a weird deal, man, that he
(25:25):
goes and he hides his talent inthe ground.
Envy isn't just wanting whatothers have, it's it's like this
, resenting them for having it.
And one of the ways we punishothers is through, you know,
inaction.
You know we punish Godourselves sometimes by not doing
anything with what he's givenus, because we're too busy
comparing to other people.
So I'm going to punish thepeople around me and I'm going
(25:46):
to punish God by not doinganything with the gift that he's
given me.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We keep talking about that gift that we have, but how
do you find that?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Man?
That's a great question, so itdoes lead back to some of this
conversation, so let's talkabout it.
Envy is noticing what otherpeople have in a way that
creates bitterness, frustrationand immobility.
All right, let's say adorationor respect or honor are noticing
(26:16):
things that people are doing orwhat they have in a way that is
consistent with what God hasrequired, which is, if something
good is happening, I shouldnotice that, I should care, I
should want to contribute.
Again, envy is the oppositedirection.
I notice it, I'm frustrated andI'm going to try to attack it.
And I attack it by, like I said, burying what I have or by
(26:38):
actively assaulting what youhave.
But when you notice somethingthat somebody is doing that is
fabulous, that you feel like youcan actually contribute to,
then you should All right.
So if you're reading, this isme all right, I'm just going
there.
But if you're reading theologybooks and you're trying to teach
people about Jesus and you'retrying to help do some life
(26:59):
coaching and help them catchmomentum where they've got stuck
in some things, and you hearsomebody doing that, you're like
man, that's awesome, I can dothat too.
I want to do that.
I can't do it like you can.
But I can help this guy.
I can't do it the way thatyou're doing.
I don't have the resources orability.
I don't have the brain power ofan Al Mohler.
You know what I mean.
Who does I feel like that guy'she's insane.
(27:21):
But I do have the ability tocreate an impact and contribute
to what God is doing throughthat man in some unique way in
my own life.
And either you look at that andsay I shouldn't try, or you
look at it and you realize, oh,something of what God has placed
inside of him, God has alsoplaced inside of me which is a
way of seeing.
Yeah, because, well, or becauseI feel uniquely called to it,
(27:44):
there's some things I want to do.
Tim, I want to play thesaxophone.
Okay, do I feel like that'shighest and best for me right
now?
No, I'm fascinated by tons ofthings that I don't feel like
are the talent that God hasgiven to me.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
All right.
So how do you figure that out?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay, so let's get into this for a second.
All right, so let's talk about,like, the office of apostle,
all right.
And then I want to talk aboutthe gifts of the apostle, and
then I want to talk about thecalling of an apostle, all right
, just to break this down forsome people.
Just to break this down forsome people.
Okay, an apostle is an officethat God gives to people that is
(28:21):
to function in an authoritativeposition within the church.
All right, the calling of anapostle is somebody who is
uniquely called by God tofunction in this role as an
ongoing vocation, so it's notjust in one location or one
church, it's anywhere I go.
This is what I'm going to do.
The gifting of an apostle isusually like administration,
(28:44):
leadership, discernment, wisdom.
They're the person who comesalong and is able to function in
a lot of these attributes thathelp them in the office of
apostle that uniquely comealongside the calling of an
apostle.
Okay, so remove the title ofapostle and insert whatever
unique thing you think you'retalking about.
All right, so if you play thesaxophone, you may have a knack
(29:09):
for music in general, but theway that you use music is
through the saxophone.
And how do you.
What's the category forsaxophonist or whatever it is?
Is musician, all right?
So you should be askingyourself am I contributing to
the music?
Um, that that God has calledunique people to all over the
world.
I can't play the piano.
That's fine, that's okay.
(29:30):
God hasn't called you to dothat.
If, uniquely, you're good inthis particular area, now could
you learn with some of thosethings, learn how to play
alongside some of them, orthings like that?
Yeah, totally.
But but you need to know hey,what is it that I'm supposed to
be doing?
How do I grow in that and someof that?
You, you figure out through.
You know, I guessexperimentation is a good way to
see it, but a lot of likeidentifying your gifts.
(29:52):
Tim starts, starts like with ashotgun right, it's buckshot,
you're doing stuff and you pullthe trigger.
Somebody asks you to dosomething and you're like I will
literally do anything and I'lldo it everywhere.
All right, every one of thoselittle BBs represents something
that you're giving your time to.
You're just you're.
You're willing to just trydifferent stuff.
This is kind of high school.
It's like try this, try this.
(30:12):
Listen, check out this subject.
Check out this subject.
Check out this subject.
I don't know if you like thisCollege is a little bit more of
that, but it's also a little bittighter.
We've moved from like theclassic 12 gauge to like a 410
shell.
Okay, it's a little bit less,it's a little more isolated.
Potentially, you know, a largergrade or something like that,
where I'm trying to give lesseffort and attention in all
(30:35):
these different areas over alarger span.
I'm trying to give more effortin a smaller area and eventually
, if you continue in that, tim,if you keep practicing and
working at it, it gets evennarrower.
And now I'm more like a 30-06.
I'm high impact and a lot offorce in one small area for
(30:57):
maximum impact.
The more buckshot won't kill adeer, it'll wound it, but it
doesn't have the force in onearea to make an impact that it
should.
It'll scatter across the thing,might put it out an eye, but
you'll never have the impact youcould have if you're focused in
every area as much as you could, if you really focused on one
(31:19):
or two things that you'reactually very in solid at, and I
would say those one, two, maybethree things, if you're very
gifted, coincide.
This is why an apostle tends tohave an office, a calling, and
he usually has leadership,wisdom, discernment you know
what I mean Administration Allof those tend to go together.
Discernment you know what Imean?
(31:39):
Administration all of thosetend to go together.
Um, and he and he finds a wayto load them in a way where,
when I use this, I'm hitting allthree of those gifts at the
same time.
Somebody who's, uh, great attheology and great at writing
and great at studying Okay,those it's like.
Well, that's the best casescenario.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
You got all the gifts that work in the same area.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's not always the case.
Some guys, tim, are fantasticpublic speakers who may not be,
let's say, theological magicians.
You know what I mean.
And so what do they do?
Well, they hire somebody who isNow I got two, two talent guys
working together you know what Imean and they're helping become
the five talent person togetherthat they couldn't be otherwise
(32:17):
.
Right, and man, I want to talkabout like gifts and who, and
not how, and all this stuff thatcan come along.
There's some leadershipprinciples in here that can
overflow into finding yourunique gifting or your signature
strength, or whatever you wantto call it.
But all of us are good atcertain things.
I've said it a bunch of timeswhat irritates you and what gets
you really passionate areusually good indication of
something that God has putinside of you.
(32:39):
The question is are you going tolet envy, comparison and
frustration empty you of thepurpose that you should have in
your life by making you bury itand with it yourself?
And oftentimes people havegifts and abilities and cool
things that they could do thatthey bury because of envy.
And the 10th commandment isthis way of saying hey, with
(33:00):
people's wives, with people'shusbands, with people's cars,
their houses, their stuff.
Listen.
If you don't keep that underwraps and by that I mean if you
don't control yourself andsubmit your thoughts and your
actions to God, you will becomethe kind of person who will end
up either A destroying thepeople around you or B
(33:21):
ultimately destroying yourself.
Hear me on this In defiance ofGod, because it's an act of
anger and you're trying topunish him.
This is why Satan hatescreation is because he wants to
kill the thing that's made inthe image of God right, and that
kind of thing is what leads youto be sitting on the couch more
than you should be.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, well, right, and that kind of thing is
what leads you to be sitting onthe couch more than you should
be.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, well, it's this.
Well, when we say things like,well, I wouldn't have done
anything anyways, you justburied your gift, that's all you
did.
That's you telling God well, ifyou would have given me more, I
would have done more.
And that's not true.
Again, if it's a business andsome guy sells the thing and
gives you $100,000, youshouldn't be sitting there
asking how come I didn't getmore.
(34:00):
You should be sitting praisingthis man for hooking you up and
giving you an amazing gift.
That is our relationship withGod.
God has given you gifts.
He's put breath in your lungs.
He's put strength in your hands.
He's given you abilities.
He's given you insights.
He's given you in the gospel ofJesus, in the gospel himself.
There's no reason for any of usto sit back and bury anything,
(34:23):
and when you do, you need torealize that you are trying to
punish God.
You have an envious, covetousheart and you're responding by
being destructive instead ofconstructive.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think I've always been waiting for God to come to
me in a dream.
Just do this, you're good, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So let's do that real quick.
Let's take that.
Why do you think, why do youwant him to come to you in a
dream?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Because that's for me , that's when I can pay most
attention.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
No, no, you like that idea because other people have
had that happen.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
You are comparing yourself to somebody else.
You're saying, well, Joseph hada dream, If I just had what
that person had, then I wouldreally take it seriously.
It's very true.
It's only because we have thatcomparison mentality that we
drag it into our own lives andwe think that if I just had that
then I would.
And it's not true.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, or if I just had somebody like you know what,
do this than I would, and it'snot true.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, or if I just had somebody like you know what?
Do this?
Well, cause people, people lookat what we have right now and
they say the same things we sayabout the people that we're
comparing ourselves to.
Yeah, you know, there's.
There is no excuse for any ofus, and when we stand before God
, none of us get to tell him youknow, well, here's why I didn't
do.
Or here's what.
There are no excuses before thealmighty.
When here's what?
There are no excuses before thealmighty, when he gives you
something and he blesses youwith something, he expects you
(35:39):
to use it for his kingdom andbuild it and do something
valuable, and that that wickedservant in Matthew 25, in the
same story in Luke, gets thrownout into the outer darkness
where there's weeping andgnashing of teeth.
I think in.
I think in Luke, the storymight actually say something
like um he, he has him executedin front of the other guys, like
it's brutal.
You're like oh man, it really iswickedness.
(36:01):
Not just because he didn't dosomething with it, because
ultimately, his heart wasrebellious and angry at God.
And when he did that, if youconsider what happened, the
other guys went and tooksomething valuable that God took
out of his own resources andgave to them, and they did
something with it.
This wicked servant receivedsomething out of God's own grace
(36:23):
and out of his own pocket andburied it in anger against him.
It's just wickedness, it's allit is.
So when you think about, like Isaid, cancel culture, racism,
the worst aspects of acapitalistic society that
leverage people's jealousy andenvy to try to sell product All
of those things are standing indirect opposition to the Ten
(36:47):
Commandments and what God istelling people to do.
And again, it's not an externalthing.
This one starts in your heartand it will define whether you
do something with your life andworship God or whether you will
bury your life and blame God,and all of us have to make that
kind of decision.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I know I have this problem where I daydream a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Mostly because I'm by myself, you know, doing
mindless stuff all the time.
That sounds nice, but there's apast, yeah.
If there are changes, I'll missit, but I think that's why I'm
so good at it too.
Practice, practice but somebodytold me that like that's just
another form of jealousy andenvy is that you're trying to
prescribe your future yourselfand not allowing God to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I think I would have two takes on this.
One would be if you'refantasizing about all these
really cool things that could behappening or how it would feel
or what it would look like orwhatever.
Yeah, that's, that's probablysin.
Yeah, the other side of it isare you creating your own mythos
to make sense of what'shappening around you?
Like to me, most guys likestories of war and fighting and
(37:58):
battle and dragons, because theyactually kind of feel those
things happening around them.
And God has given us these grandstories of angelic,
supernatural beings and thingsto help us understand what's
more of what's actually going on.
And your imagination is touchedby the divine in such a way that
you can see those things in away that is pretty amazing, a
way that you can see thosethings in a way that is pretty
(38:20):
amazing, and you think about nothaving an imagination or being
able to create things in yourmind or, like, come up with
these ideas.
That's a good gift from God andyou either use it for him to
understand and comprehend what'smore of what's going on around
you and put faces and scenariosto the grand battle that you're
actually in, or the granddifficulty or the glorious
finish that you're actually in,or the grand difficulty or the
glorious finish that you'rehoping to have, or you leverage
(38:42):
those things in rebellion to God, which is what I should have
had and how I feel.
And it's the difference betweenlistening to a worship song, tim
, and a country song.
I hate to say this, but youknow there's some songs where
it's like depression andfrustration and anger and it
takes your heart to this placewhere you feel so comfortable in
this victim mentality and it'slike when you use your emotions
(39:04):
and imagination to sit in apuddle of your own slime, that's
sin.
When you're using your emotionsand imagination to help you
live in the way that God hascalled you to, or to reflect the
glorious calling that you have,that's a wonderful, good use of
that which is probably closerto worship you.
You know you got to choose, youmake those decisions, but yeah,
(39:27):
all of that, all of thatmatters, all of it matters.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Wow, Cool man.
I think that will conclude our10 commandments Nice.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Guys, it's been fun.
I've enjoyed going throughthese.
Sorry, we've been a little bitspotty getting these done.
It's just been crazy and busyin some different ways, but I've
really enjoyed talking about itwith you all.
We'll be back here very soon.
We've got another series andsome other stuff that we're
going to knock out for you, sostay tuned and we'll be back at
it again.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, all right, guys , all right.
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
Justin, yeah, buddy.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
How are you?
I'm uh, how are you?
I'm thumping good, something,good Thumping.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Thumping.
Good, that was my.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
I watched um what was it?
Oh, uh, the, the professor andthe madman.
Do you know what this is?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Yeah, we read that book.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, like forever ago right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, the dictionary right.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's about the making ofthe English dictionary the first
one.
It's a fantastic read.
There's a movie with Mel Gibsonin it.
And so I watched it last nightand everybody had an English
accent and he had a goodScottish accent, you know, which
was like William Wallace.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
It was kind of hard to watch.
I'm like hmm, Just say the linefreedom Shave the beard, paint
your face blue.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Say it again.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Yeah, exactly, but anyway so.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I got British accent stuck in my head, but I will do
my best to avoid speaking in aBritish accent for the rest of
this podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I would appreciate it , I think we all would Govna.
All right, let's finish offthese 10 commandments.
Let's go.
I hope this has been satisfyingin some manner, dude, I've
enjoyed it.
I've actually liked talkingthrough them.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
I think that everybody hears about these
growing up in the church andthey're on some wall or
something, but nobody actuallytakes the time to think about
how this is literally God'sprescription for a flourishing
society.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Right.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
You know everybody's like yeah, yeah, yeah, do this,
Don't do this.
Yeah, yay, god Rules, no,exactly Rules, exactly Thanks or
rules.
This is actually God, like here.
This will help you not to killeach other.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Yeah, this will help you not to kill each other.
You're welcome.
I don't think we could talk somuch about just one line, one
sentence.
Do not steal, there's 45minutes for you.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Tim, you underestimate my love for
nerdiness and theology.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
You underestimate my genius.
I don't know if I'd call itthat, but some kind of weird
fixation.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
you know, yeah, it's a condition.
I have a parasite, but I'll befine.
Anyways should I read thisthing?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Yeah, yeah, number 10 .
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Here we go.
You shall not covet yourneighbor's house.
You shall not covet yourneighbor's wife or his male
servant or his female servant,or his ox or his donkey, or
anything that belongs to yourneighbor.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
All right, specifically just those things.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Well, yep, that's it.
His car is fine, but you lookat his donkey too long.
By the way, in the KGV it's adifferent word and it's you know
I got a wicked heart, so prayfor me.
But no, it's really trying togive you a list, which is
interesting because, like Tim,you bring this up.
(02:54):
The other commandments are likeyou shall not murder.
It doesn't say this and thisand this and this.
It doesn't say you shouldn'tcommit adultery with Gina or Jim
or you know.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I was going to say I can imagine Don't murder your
wife, Everybody else.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
It doesn't say don't steal this list, right.
It doesn't say you shouldn'tbear false witness.
You know, in these ways this isthe one where it's trying to
give you like a look at me, lookat me, this or that or that.
He might as well be standingoutside somebody's house
pointing at all of his stuffthat you've been ogling all day.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
You know what?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I mean it's very telling.
And what's weird about thiscommandment Tim is the other
ones are like externallyverifiable.
Yeah, all right so if you thinkabout stealing, you know if
somebody stole it or not.
You know hypothetically likethe item is gone.
He has it.
(03:48):
He doesn't Whether somebodyknows that or not, there's
physical evidence for it.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
If you get murdered, you'd probably know it.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Yeah, stealing, murdering, lying it's all
external stuff.
This commandment is in acategory of its own in that it's
an internal thing the Lord istelling you not to do.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
All right, which will probably explain why he went
into a little more detail.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Well, it's at least, and remember, we talk about this
right, just because somethingis a sin doesn't make it a crime
, but this is what Jesus does.
When Jesus is talking aboutadultery and he's like listen,
if you've lusted after a womanin your heart, you've already
committed adultery, he's talkingabout adultery.
And he's like listen, if you'velusted after a woman in your
heart, you've already committedadultery.
If you're angry at your brother, you're guilty of murder.
Covening is that type ofcommandment where he's saying,
(04:31):
hey, hey, hey, I'm not talkingabout the action here.
I'm actually talking about yourown thought, life in your own
heart, which is prettyinteresting If you just consider
the implications of that.
This is not something thatsomebody else is going to be
able to look at you and say, oh,he's definitely doing this.
(04:51):
This is something between youand God that you were either
doing or you were not doing, andthe implications of doing this
wrong man it's everywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
What's the actions that get involved when you're
coveting over somebody else'sstuff?
It's an internal thing, but isthere an external?
I like to define like our world.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
The word I would use instead of coveting is envy.
Envy Like that, to me, is theword that really sums up like
what is actually happening.
What does coveting mean?
It is having a desire forsomething that is not yours,
that God didn't give you, and itcreates a hatred, a frustration
(05:36):
, an irritation with the personthat has those things.
Coveting never stops at I wantthis.
It always ends in and youshouldn't have it either, right?
Speaker 1 (05:47):
When you don't deserve it.
I do.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, it seeks to punish the person who does have
it.
In your behavior towards themor in your behavior towards God.
It's this really nasty thingwhere we don't just want what
they have.
We hate them for having it, Forhaving it.
That is what they have.
We hate them for having it.
That is what it is Ultimately.
Tim, if you look at Satan, thisis the hypothetical way that
(06:10):
Satan felt he sees God, eventhough he's a created being
that's perfect.
He wants what God has and inthat, becomes bitter rebels
against God and falls.
So you could say, oh, it's just, you know, it's pride.
Well, yes, ultimately pride isrebelling against God.
But what was it?
What was the mechanism here?
Desiring what somebody else hadand feeling as though, because
(06:34):
they have it, you should alsohave it.
It's a perverted form ofjustice, that kind of we have
going on inside of us.
Now I would like to maybe tella story in the Bible to help
play this out a little bit, ifyou're interested.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, one of my favorite texts in the Bible that
I feel like I bring up adnauseum so if you're like, oh no
, he's going there again, yes, Iam Cause I feel like it's so
important is the parable of thetalents.
Oh, yeah, okay, I feel likenothing brings this story home
more than understanding the 10thcommandment.
Okay, matthew 25,.
(07:15):
You have these three guys.
One gets five talents, one getstwo talents.
One gets one talent.
Okay, um, let's, let's paint itin the talent.
Okay, let's paint it in thestory that we have in our own
world.
Okay, so imagine you and twocolleagues.
You got a couple of coworkers.
You'll work at the same job foryears.
One day, the owner decides tosell the company and gives each
(07:38):
of you a small fortune.
All right, it's not, you didn'thave part of the company.
Ok, he just sells it and he'slike you guys have been great.
I'm dividing it up, I'm givingit, I'm giving it to you, but
instead of dividing it upequally, like one for one, one
colleague receives a massive sum, another gets half of that sum
(07:58):
and you receive a fraction ofeven what the second guy got.
Now you don't say anything,right, yeah, but inside you feel
maybe overlooked, frustrated,unworthy.
And the owner's decision maybewasn't personal, it wasn't a
vendetta, but it feels personal,does it not?
(08:20):
Yeah, I think when we tell thisstory externally, in the
framework of Matthew 25, really,yeah, god can do whatever he
wants to do.
You tell the story in theframework of our own lives.
You're like how dare he do thisparticular thing?
The scenario resonates with usbecause we all know what it's
like to feel left out orundervalued.
But the real issue isn'tfairness, it's the assumption
(08:43):
that we deserve what otherpeople have.
That's it.
We think.
If so-and-so has this, I shouldalso have this.
That is coveting.
And underneath all of it isthis profane idea of just what
we think we should have and what, uh, you know, compared to what
(09:06):
, what other people have.
And from childhood we expectfairness.
If only one person gets candyat the you know, at the
department store, two of yourother kids are going to freak
out you know what I mean.
Well, they got candy.
I should also have candy.
That that's actually not true.
Um, if someone is praised, weshould be excited about that.
If somebody in your life isbeing told, great job, you did
(09:30):
an amazing thing, we should alsowant to jump on board and say
man, you did way to go, greatjob.
But the thing in our heart thatis this breaking of the 10th
commandment is well, how comeI'm not getting praised?
How come this isn't happeningfor me?
We start comparing gifts,talents or blessing and we
rewrite a narrative in our headthat leads us from gratitude to
(09:51):
resentment when we ask ourselvesabout the motives of why it
happened and the deservedness ofthe person who received it.
Um, it's, it's messy, it's,it's rewriting the story.
Yeah, yeah, um, you could evensay it this way Envy tends to
distort your reality.
God gives good blessings.
He's deciding how things happenand where it's happening and
(10:14):
what's happening.
And in your head you're like no, they shouldn't get that.
I should get that.
I know better.
I'm going to rewrite this in myhead and now I'm bitter and
frustrated and I am the victimin my own story.
Okay, tim, enter Marxism.
All right, for those of youthat don't know what Karl Marx
was trying to do is show thatthe entire story of human
(10:38):
history is ultimately a strugglebetween those who have power
and those who do not, andrevolutions happen and all these
different things happen.
You have oppressor and thosewho are oppressed, you have
victims and victimizer, andthat's the story of all of
history.
The winners write the story,the losers continue to lose.
(11:00):
The winners continue to hoardpower, and until power is
equally distributed amongsteveryone, we will never have
peace.
That's kind of the story andyou can see how you know.
He was a child who gotfrustrated with his brothers and
sisters a lot, you know.
It's this perspective ofturning how things are and the
(11:24):
way things are written andwhat's being done into a weapon
against other people that helpsyou feel validated in your
feelings toward people that aretotally unjust and wicked.
Does the person with one talenthave the right to be angry at
God?
No, why?
(11:46):
Because it was a free giftalready.
So if you didn't know what theother guys received, you'd be
like this is the best.
Can you believe?
He sold off his business and Igot $200,000 of this thing.
Amazing, your buddy comes upand you're like man, I got
$500,000.
And you're like, okay, thisguy's a monster, right Like that
(12:06):
.
That is what our heart'scondition is.
That's what god does.
He blesses us, he gives us life, he gives us good things and,
uh, this distorted reality thatwe get with envy, man, oh my
gosh, it can just eat you aliveyou know I see this play out
when I watch pond star.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Sometimes when somebody brings in, like I just
want 100 bucks for it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And then it's like worth eight grand.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It's like oh well, then I'll take $8,000.
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Suddenly their chin comes up, their shoulders come
back.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
It drives me crazy watching that show sometimes.
But to that point though, whenyou start coveting over your
neighbor's stuff.
Right, if I want thatbitterness, resentment builds up
.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Do you think it falls into this fear of?
Well, if I want what he has, Ineed to be like him.
I think it can become thatwhere you, so another I brought
up kind of this Marxism from aneconomic standpoint, but Marxism
, the way that we see it today,is being played out in race
right, so like if somebody is.
We talk about white privilege.
Ok, so this is ethnicGnosticism, which is what Woody
Bauckham, I think, coined thisphrase, but his idea is that
(13:29):
these people have a specificpower.
Therefore, white people won'tbe able to understand and are
outside of the realm ofcapturing or understanding that
information and therefore unableto fathom or resonate with what
it is.
Ok, I want to like fight thatright now, but I'm not going to
go there.
I want to like fight that rightnow, but I'm not going to go
(13:50):
there.
The idea that white people havea privilege OK, or just better
than have all this stuff is thisis this ultimate idea of envy
that because they are this way,they have all these extra things
and if they weren't this way,they would not have those things
.
But who gives, you know, thingsto people?
(14:11):
Who is the ultimate decider ofwho gets what and when and how,
and we would say God.
God, ultimately, is the one whogives blessing.
God is ultimately, the one thatputs people in particular times
and places in history, andoftentimes we just don't like
what he's doing and we come upwith reasons for why things
(14:32):
shouldn't be the way that theyare.
I say it all the time, butThomas Sowell has this quote.
He says the middle classdoesn't love the poor, they just
hate the rich.
It's not that they actuallywant to help people who have
less, they're just mad at thepeople who have more and they
leverage the people who haveless to try to get more for
themselves.
(14:52):
Yeah, it's pretty messy.
It's pretty messy.
So this, ultimately, tim, iswhy we have cancel culture too.
Okay, so you think about?
Somebody has a position ofpower.
If, if you want to think aboutit that way, I'm able to
communicate these things, saythese things, maybe on a podcast
(15:15):
or on a platform where I'm ableto speak to all these people my
opinion, and so somebody elsesays I don't want you to have
that platform, that platformbelongs to me, and so I will
leverage what I have to cancelyour voice so that I can get
what you have.
What is that Envy?
Ultimately, it's coveting.
You shouldn't have that.
(15:35):
I should have that.
It's mine now.
So I will silence anybody whothinks other than what I think,
even if they worked for that orhad this opportunity.
Cancel culture with businesses,tim, is like people who are.
You know, you're not allowed toespouse these things and if you
do espouse them, we'll cut yourfunding.
What is that?
No, no, no, no, no.
You have to go along with whatwe're saying and we should have
(15:57):
what you have.
How dare you be able to speakor defend these things when I
think you shouldn't be able to?
Now I'm taking them from you.
Envy is ultimately why thePharisees killed Jesus.
All right, he's got these largefollowings, he's speaking the
truth to people, he's doingmiracles and people are like
coming along and oh, this isgreat, and following him and not
listening to them.
(16:17):
And so why do they kill Jesus?
Ultimately, because the claimsthat he's making and the power
that he wields and the truththat he's speaking ultimately
are all things that they want tohold for themselves, and when
they can't have it, they'll killthe guy that does.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
They lose the power for it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
A murderous heart.
Man is an envious heart andit's it's worth worth noting
that Not just like Cain and Abel, you know.
Yeah, well, think about this.
This turns you on your brother,right?
So that story in Matthew 25,the guy with the one talent says
master, I knew you to be a hardman, reaping where you did not
(16:56):
sow and gathering where youscattered no seed.
What is he saying?
You're a jerk.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
I'm not doing what you said I was going to do.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
And then they're jerks because they took what
they shouldn't have taken.
You know what I mean.
But yeah, it's ultimately it'scomparison.
Yeah, cain and Abel, it's everyother story in the Bible of
conflict.
They have what I want We'llkill each other for it right.
When Jesus gives us the TenCommandment, he's ultimately
(17:24):
trying to communicate to us like, hey, this is a way to live
that will actually keep you fromblowing yourselves to pieces.
This is a way to live that willkeep you safe, because what's
happening on the inside of youwill eventually come out in all
these other ways.
If there's a commandment thatis closer to the 10th
commandment than any other 10,it's the first commandment.
(17:45):
Right?
It's to love the Lord, your God, like know him, follow him,
know his heart, what he's doing,because if you align your
values and your desires and whatyou're seeking with him, then
it doesn't come out in all theseweird kinds of profane ways.
Like, if you get that, god owesyou nothing.
It goes a long way for you andwe live in the wealthiest era in
(18:10):
history.
Yet we're still some of the mostdiscontent people on the entire
planet because we measureourselves against others instead
of seeing what we've beentrusted by with God.
We had all these self-helpthings and we got freaking
antidepressants like crazy andeverybody's like eating until
they're absolutely disgustingand fat.
(18:31):
And we all have housing and wejust we think we need more and
we're mad at everybody else fromhaving it and it's like dude,
god has given you so much morethan you deserve.
You could see yourself rightnow, what you look like from
God's perspective.
If I can see myself right nowand my wickedness and how God
sees me, I'd be like oh man, I'ma mess.
I got a lot of this in my bonesand it's not good People are
(18:53):
just bored.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
That's why you know what I mean, do you think?
I'm just trying to thinkthrough that a little bit.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
I just think they think that they know better than
God.
Yeah and um.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Or they're just sitting around waiting for God
to show up.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Yeah sitting around waiting for God to show up.
Yeah, I was just listening tothis famous comedian.
I can't even pronounce his name.
Several of you would probablyknow it if I said his name but
he was talking about how he'slike the thing is real man.
He's like you get a bunch ofmoney.
No-transcript changes nothing.
(19:38):
The human condition stays thesame and it's it's worth noting
this man.
So the comparison that we haveand the the caricatures of life
that are painted by everyone ontheir social medias and the
pictures they display andeverything else, are these
beautiful like oh, look at me,and it's it's.
(20:00):
It's this perfectdiscontentment ground that envy
and covetousness grows in thateveryone is infected with.
If you think you don't havethis problem, listen to me, you
do.
Yeah, yeah, you do.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
I remember several times after we got saved I was
getting that resentment towardsyou a lot.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I remember that .
Was it because of my chest hair?
I confessed that a lot.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Your hair in general.
Actually, okay, dig into this,tim, dig into this Because we
did a lot of the same stufftogether.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yeah, we did you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
And that was a blast, Don't get me wrong.
But I had to turn to this pointof everybody would kind of
trample over me to get to you,yeah.
So it was like what has he gotthat?
I?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
don't?
They wanted my donkeys.
What?
Speaker 1 (20:47):
has he got?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, and it was worth it.
Am I not the same?
Like what genetic code that Godbless you with?
That I don't have, and I thinkthis was with my brother a lot
too.
You know what I mean.
He's a lot similar, kind oflike you you know what?
I mean Personality stuff.
But yeah, I started gettingthat way with you too, Cause I'm
like I want those things, youknow, and I feel like I'm doing
(21:07):
the same stuff, but yet I'm not.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
I'm still the sidekick, yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
And it's.
It's funny because it's a goodthing to value what somebody
else can do and has.
It's another thing to want itfor yourself.
Right Like that.
You know, you see somebodywho's really good at something.
Have you ever seen somebodywho's like, uh, amazing, like
the crystal glasses, you knowwhat I mean.
Like they'll have like 50 ofthose crystal glasses out in
there that you know, with thefinger around the rim where it
makes like the, it makes thenoise.
(21:33):
You know what I mean.
Like playing the glasses, youknow.
Okay, I think that's awesome.
I don't want to be that person,you know what I mean.
I just think we have to applythat kind of mentality to
everything, just because ifsomebody is amazing at something
, it shouldn't be.
Gosh, I wish I could do that asmuch as it should be.
Man, that's amazing.
You could do that.
(21:54):
And now consider what is bestfor me, considering who God has
called me to be and made me tobe, and I've, I've learned that
I've you know yeah this is yearsand years ago, so it's worth
bringing is Jesus.
(22:15):
You know, in Matthew 25, jesustells these guys hey, well done,
good and faithful servants, youguys get to enter into the joy
of your master, these guys whoactually did something with what
they had.
But the other guy, the guy withone, the unfaithful servant, he
let comparison steal his joyand purpose.
Okay, so look, this isimportant that you hear this
(22:36):
right.
I'm going to say this is a goodline.
All right, Take this with you.
Envy doesn't just bury your gift, it buries your gift and it
buries you because God gives yousomething.
But if you get bitter andfrustrated and in your guts
you're like, well, I didn't getthat, I didn't get that, then
what you do?
What does this guy do?
He takes his gift and he goesand he buries it and by burying
(23:04):
the gifts and stuff that God hasgiven him, he eliminates
himself from having theopportunity to do something.
He buries himself, he burieshis gift and then he buries God,
because you're the one,ultimately, that stole from me
and didn't give me what I wanted.
Envy buries the person as muchas it buries the gift.
And you see this kind of in ourculture today a little bit Tim,
because there's so many peoplethat are upset and frustrated
with everyone else.
Everybody's watching the personwho's the greatest at this ever
(23:27):
on YouTube or whatever doingall this stuff, and then what do
they do?
Well, I won't even try because,well, I'm not like that, so I
can't.
Speaker 1 (23:36):
I do that all the time Right.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And what does it do?
Well, I have gifts, I do haveabilities, I am good at things,
but I'm not going to do itbecause I can't be them if it's,
if I'm not as good as that guy,then what's the point?
then what's exactly?
That's?
That's how envy gets you to buryyourself, because, ultimately,
the things that you could bedoing or how you could be
walking out of the fruitfulnessthat you could be having, um,
(24:00):
ends up being buried and and youdon't even give it a go, you
don't do anything with itbecause you feel like it can't
be what you, what you want it tobe.
You got to ask yourself like areyou missing out on fruitfulness
in your life Because you're sobusy comparing?
Are there things that, likegifts that God has given you
uniquely that you're too busylooking at everyone else so
you've decided not to use?
(24:22):
And is envy turning you into acritic instead of a contributor?
Are you the guy who isconstantly like oh, instead of
giving and helping be a part ofwhat's going on?
I just I spend all my timecritiquing everybody else and
telling them how not to do it,not because I'm actually helping
be valuable in the situation,but because I like reminding
(24:44):
other people that I know morethan they do.
It's just another kind of powerplay in that whole area, right?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
I like what you said once about the talents, about
the guy who got the one.
You said this one time it waslike maybe God knew he could do
more with that one than theother two guys could do with
hers.
100%, I'm like that's such aninteresting thought.
Speaker 2 (25:02):
Yeah, well, and is it possible that the five talents
you know what I mean that he'sgiven?
Is it possible that if he givesthat to the guy with the one,
it absolutely crushes him?
Yeah, and he actually he blowshis life up because he can't
deal with that kind of resource.
You know what I mean.
It's not something he's able todo.
Yeah, it's such a it's, it'ssuch a weird deal, man, that he
(25:25):
goes and he hides his talent inthe ground.
Envy isn't just wanting whatothers have, it's it's like this
, resenting them for having it.
And one of the ways we punishothers is through, you know,
inaction.
You know we punish Godourselves sometimes by not doing
anything with what he's givenus, because we're too busy
comparing to other people.
So I'm going to punish thepeople around me and I'm going
(25:46):
to punish God by not doinganything with the gift that he's
given me.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
We keep talking about that gift that we have, but how
do you find that?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Man?
That's a great question, so itdoes lead back to some of this
conversation, so let's talkabout it.
Envy is noticing what otherpeople have in a way that
creates bitterness, frustrationand immobility.
All right, let's say adorationor respect or honor are noticing
(26:16):
things that people are doing orwhat they have in a way that is
consistent with what God hasrequired, which is, if something
good is happening, I shouldnotice that, I should care, I
should want to contribute.
Again, envy is the oppositedirection.
I notice it, I'm frustrated andI'm going to try to attack it.
And I attack it by, like I said, burying what I have or by
(26:38):
actively assaulting what youhave.
But when you notice somethingthat somebody is doing that is
fabulous, that you feel like youcan actually contribute to,
then you should All right.
So if you're reading, this isme all right, I'm just going
there.
But if you're reading theologybooks and you're trying to teach
people about Jesus and you'retrying to help do some life
(26:59):
coaching and help them catchmomentum where they've got stuck
in some things, and you hearsomebody doing that, you're like
man, that's awesome, I can dothat too.
I want to do that.
I can't do it like you can.
But I can help this guy.
I can't do it the way thatyou're doing.
I don't have the resources orability.
I don't have the brain power ofan Al Mohler.
You know what I mean.
Who does I feel like that guy'she's insane.
(27:21):
But I do have the ability tocreate an impact and contribute
to what God is doing throughthat man in some unique way in
my own life.
And either you look at that andsay I shouldn't try, or you
look at it and you realize, oh,something of what God has placed
inside of him, God has alsoplaced inside of me which is a
way of seeing.
Yeah, because, well, or becauseI feel uniquely called to it,
(27:44):
there's some things I want to do.
Tim, I want to play thesaxophone.
Okay, do I feel like that'shighest and best for me right
now?
No, I'm fascinated by tons ofthings that I don't feel like
are the talent that God hasgiven to me.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
All right.
So how do you figure that out?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Okay, so let's get into this for a second.
All right, so let's talk about,like, the office of apostle,
all right.
And then I want to talk aboutthe gifts of the apostle, and
then I want to talk about thecalling of an apostle, all right
, just to break this down forsome people.
Just to break this down forsome people.
Okay, an apostle is an officethat God gives to people that is
(28:21):
to function in an authoritativeposition within the church.
All right, the calling of anapostle is somebody who is
uniquely called by God tofunction in this role as an
ongoing vocation, so it's notjust in one location or one
church, it's anywhere I go.
This is what I'm going to do.
The gifting of an apostle isusually like administration,
(28:44):
leadership, discernment, wisdom.
They're the person who comesalong and is able to function in
a lot of these attributes thathelp them in the office of
apostle that uniquely comealongside the calling of an
apostle.
Okay, so remove the title ofapostle and insert whatever
unique thing you think you'retalking about.
All right, so if you play thesaxophone, you may have a knack
(29:09):
for music in general, but theway that you use music is
through the saxophone.
And how do you.
What's the category forsaxophonist or whatever it is?
Is musician, all right?
So you should be askingyourself am I contributing to
the music?
Um, that that God has calledunique people to all over the
world.
I can't play the piano.
That's fine, that's okay.
(29:30):
God hasn't called you to dothat.
If, uniquely, you're good inthis particular area, now could
you learn with some of thosethings, learn how to play
alongside some of them, orthings like that?
Yeah, totally.
But but you need to know hey,what is it that I'm supposed to
be doing?
How do I grow in that and someof that?
You, you figure out through.
You know, I guessexperimentation is a good way to
see it, but a lot of likeidentifying your gifts.
(29:52):
Tim starts, starts like with ashotgun right, it's buckshot,
you're doing stuff and you pullthe trigger.
Somebody asks you to dosomething and you're like I will
literally do anything and I'lldo it everywhere.
All right, every one of thoselittle BBs represents something
that you're giving your time to.
You're just you're.
You're willing to just trydifferent stuff.
This is kind of high school.
It's like try this, try this.
(30:12):
Listen, check out this subject.
Check out this subject.
Check out this subject.
I don't know if you like thisCollege is a little bit more of
that, but it's also a little bittighter.
We've moved from like theclassic 12 gauge to like a 410
shell.
Okay, it's a little bit less,it's a little more isolated.
Potentially, you know, a largergrade or something like that,
where I'm trying to give lesseffort and attention in all
(30:35):
these different areas over alarger span.
I'm trying to give more effortin a smaller area and eventually
, if you continue in that, tim,if you keep practicing and
working at it, it gets evennarrower.
And now I'm more like a 30-06.
I'm high impact and a lot offorce in one small area for
(30:57):
maximum impact.
The more buckshot won't kill adeer, it'll wound it, but it
doesn't have the force in onearea to make an impact that it
should.
It'll scatter across the thing,might put it out an eye, but
you'll never have the impact youcould have if you're focused in
every area as much as you could, if you really focused on one
(31:19):
or two things that you'reactually very in solid at, and I
would say those one, two, maybethree things, if you're very
gifted, coincide.
This is why an apostle tends tohave an office, a calling, and
he usually has leadership,wisdom, discernment you know
what I mean Administration Allof those tend to go together.
Discernment you know what Imean?
(31:39):
Administration all of thosetend to go together.
Um, and he and he finds a wayto load them in a way where,
when I use this, I'm hitting allthree of those gifts at the
same time.
Somebody who's, uh, great attheology and great at writing
and great at studying Okay,those it's like.
Well, that's the best casescenario.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
You got all the gifts that work in the same area.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
That's not always the case.
Some guys, tim, are fantasticpublic speakers who may not be,
let's say, theological magicians.
You know what I mean.
And so what do they do?
Well, they hire somebody who isNow I got two, two talent guys
working together you know what Imean and they're helping become
the five talent person togetherthat they couldn't be otherwise
(32:17):
.
Right, and man, I want to talkabout like gifts and who, and
not how, and all this stuff thatcan come along.
There's some leadershipprinciples in here that can
overflow into finding yourunique gifting or your signature
strength, or whatever you wantto call it.
But all of us are good atcertain things.
I've said it a bunch of timeswhat irritates you and what gets
you really passionate areusually good indication of
something that God has putinside of you.
(32:39):
The question is are you going tolet envy, comparison and
frustration empty you of thepurpose that you should have in
your life by making you bury itand with it yourself?
And oftentimes people havegifts and abilities and cool
things that they could do thatthey bury because of envy.
And the 10th commandment isthis way of saying hey, with
(33:00):
people's wives, with people'shusbands, with people's cars,
their houses, their stuff.
Listen.
If you don't keep that underwraps and by that I mean if you
don't control yourself andsubmit your thoughts and your
actions to God, you will becomethe kind of person who will end
up either A destroying thepeople around you or B
(33:21):
ultimately destroying yourself.
Hear me on this In defiance ofGod, because it's an act of
anger and you're trying topunish him.
This is why Satan hatescreation is because he wants to
kill the thing that's made inthe image of God right, and that
kind of thing is what leads youto be sitting on the couch more
than you should be.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, well, right, and that kind of thing is
what leads you to be sitting onthe couch more than you should
be.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Yeah, yeah, well, it's this.
Well, when we say things like,well, I wouldn't have done
anything anyways, you justburied your gift, that's all you
did.
That's you telling God well, ifyou would have given me more, I
would have done more.
And that's not true.
Again, if it's a business andsome guy sells the thing and
gives you $100,000, youshouldn't be sitting there
asking how come I didn't getmore.
(34:00):
You should be sitting praisingthis man for hooking you up and
giving you an amazing gift.
That is our relationship withGod.
God has given you gifts.
He's put breath in your lungs.
He's put strength in your hands.
He's given you abilities.
He's given you insights.
He's given you in the gospel ofJesus, in the gospel himself.
There's no reason for any of usto sit back and bury anything,
(34:23):
and when you do, you need torealize that you are trying to
punish God.
You have an envious, covetousheart and you're responding by
being destructive instead ofconstructive.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think I've always been waiting for God to come to
me in a dream.
Just do this, you're good, okay.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
So let's do that real quick.
Let's take that.
Why do you think, why do youwant him to come to you in a
dream?
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Because that's for me , that's when I can pay most
attention.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
No, no, you like that idea because other people have
had that happen.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
You are comparing yourself to somebody else.
You're saying, well, Joseph hada dream, If I just had what
that person had, then I wouldreally take it seriously.
It's very true.
It's only because we have thatcomparison mentality that we
drag it into our own lives andwe think that if I just had that
then I would.
And it's not true.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, or if I just had somebody like you know what,
do this than I would, and it'snot true.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, or if I just had somebody like you know what?
Do this?
Well, cause people, people lookat what we have right now and
they say the same things we sayabout the people that we're
comparing ourselves to.
Yeah, you know, there's.
There is no excuse for any ofus, and when we stand before God
, none of us get to tell him youknow, well, here's why I didn't
do.
Or here's what.
There are no excuses before thealmighty.
When here's what?
There are no excuses before thealmighty, when he gives you
something and he blesses youwith something, he expects you
(35:39):
to use it for his kingdom andbuild it and do something
valuable, and that that wickedservant in Matthew 25, in the
same story in Luke, gets thrownout into the outer darkness
where there's weeping andgnashing of teeth.
I think in.
I think in Luke, the storymight actually say something
like um he, he has him executedin front of the other guys, like
it's brutal.
You're like oh man, it really iswickedness.
(36:01):
Not just because he didn't dosomething with it, because
ultimately, his heart wasrebellious and angry at God.
And when he did that, if youconsider what happened, the
other guys went and tooksomething valuable that God took
out of his own resources andgave to them, and they did
something with it.
This wicked servant receivedsomething out of God's own grace
(36:23):
and out of his own pocket andburied it in anger against him.
It's just wickedness, it's allit is.
So when you think about, like Isaid, cancel culture, racism,
the worst aspects of acapitalistic society that
leverage people's jealousy andenvy to try to sell product All
of those things are standing indirect opposition to the Ten
(36:47):
Commandments and what God istelling people to do.
And again, it's not an externalthing.
This one starts in your heartand it will define whether you
do something with your life andworship God or whether you will
bury your life and blame God,and all of us have to make that
kind of decision.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
I know I have this problem where I daydream a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:12):
Mostly because I'm by myself, you know, doing
mindless stuff all the time.
That sounds nice, but there's apast, yeah.
If there are changes, I'll missit, but I think that's why I'm
so good at it too.
Practice, practice but somebodytold me that like that's just
another form of jealousy andenvy is that you're trying to
prescribe your future yourselfand not allowing God to do it.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
I think I would have two takes on this.
One would be if you'refantasizing about all these
really cool things that could behappening or how it would feel
or what it would look like orwhatever.
Yeah, that's, that's probablysin.
Yeah, the other side of it isare you creating your own mythos
to make sense of what'shappening around you?
Like to me, most guys likestories of war and fighting and
(37:58):
battle and dragons, because theyactually kind of feel those
things happening around them.
And God has given us these grandstories of angelic,
supernatural beings and thingsto help us understand what's
more of what's actually going on.
And your imagination is touchedby the divine in such a way that
you can see those things in away that is pretty amazing, a
way that you can see thosethings in a way that is pretty
(38:20):
amazing, and you think about nothaving an imagination or being
able to create things in yourmind or, like, come up with
these ideas.
That's a good gift from God andyou either use it for him to
understand and comprehend what'smore of what's going on around
you and put faces and scenariosto the grand battle that you're
actually in, or the granddifficulty or the glorious
finish that you're actually in,or the grand difficulty or the
glorious finish that you'rehoping to have, or you leverage
(38:42):
those things in rebellion to God, which is what I should have
had and how I feel.
And it's the difference betweenlistening to a worship song, tim
, and a country song.
I hate to say this, but youknow there's some songs where
it's like depression andfrustration and anger and it
takes your heart to this placewhere you feel so comfortable in
this victim mentality and it'slike when you use your emotions
(39:04):
and imagination to sit in apuddle of your own slime, that's
sin.
When you're using your emotionsand imagination to help you
live in the way that God hascalled you to, or to reflect the
glorious calling that you have,that's a wonderful, good use of
that which is probably closerto worship you.
You know you got to choose, youmake those decisions, but yeah,
(39:27):
all of that, all of thatmatters, all of it matters.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
Wow, Cool man.
I think that will conclude our10 commandments Nice.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Guys, it's been fun.
I've enjoyed going throughthese.
Sorry, we've been a little bitspotty getting these done.
It's just been crazy and busyin some different ways, but I've
really enjoyed talking about itwith you all.
We'll be back here very soon.
We've got another series andsome other stuff that we're
going to knock out for you, sostay tuned and we'll be back at
it again.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yeah, all right, guys , all right.
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