January 23, 2025 • 49 mins
TJBHpodcast@gmail.com
Ever wonder why the concepts of theft and generosity are so deeply intertwined with our faith and ambitions? Join us as we explore how significant events like the election of Donald Trump have sparked hope and inspired people to chase their dreams with the same fervor as Elon Musk's quest to reach Mars. We navigate the delicate balance between mundane responsibilities and the pursuit of grand dreams, emphasizing the importance of rowing with the oars given to us to reach our aspirations. By sharing personal anecdotes and reflections, we illuminate the idea of staying true to one's values amid life's distractions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
What's up guys?
Welcome back to NavigateJustin's here, as always.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am.
I am basically always here,basically.
You know, sometimes people fillin for me.
We hardly ever record withoutyou.
Who's the last person thatfilled in for me, Like Sergio?
I think AJ.
I don't know.
I think it was AJ.
You guys take a vote.
Who do we need to have back on?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
here instead of me.
We're going to find that person.
We'll get it sent.
I'm going to get emails likedon't ever have this guy on
again.
Yeah, he's terrible.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Listen.
Can I just take a moment andsay Donald Trump was elected
president and the inaugurationwas freaking amazing and I'm
pretty pumped.
I'm not generally overlypolitical, but I straight feel
like our entire country wasgoing into the crapper.
And this felt like an electionwhere I was like God didn't kill
us, all you know, like I'm notsaying everything is perfect,
(00:55):
but walking through I was likedude.
This is answered prayer.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Like we're not screwed.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Him immediately tearing down the abortion site
on the government site and stufflike.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
There's a lot of stuff I agree with Riding into
legislation those other stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I was like Life begins at conception and some
different.
I'm just like, ok, it'shappening.
He wants to go to Mars.
Yeah, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sounds like a benefit .
Yeah, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm in.
I mean, I don't know what I'ddo up there, but something We'll
do something.
Anyways, answered prayer.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It was huge.
I did see an interview withElon Musk once.
It's like how come?
Because he lives in like a tinyhouse on site at his SpaceX
place.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And he was on Joe Rogan, I think, and he was like
how come you don't design yourown house?
Do you do this whole thing?
He's like I took that in my ownlife.
What am I doing with my life,dude, it's 100%.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Like that's the question.
I think about it all the timein my own life.
I am at every moment making adecision about what I actually
want to accomplish.
Yeah, and you are always inthis conversation with yourself
about, like, what do I actuallyvalue and want to do versus what
(02:11):
do I feel like I would ratherpunt on in the moment.
Yeah, you know, and guys likethat are like, nope, my whole
life is actually about this.
I'm that dedicated to it andit's like are we, do we take
that things that seriously inour own life?
And we should.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I would love to know how it feels to just know that
about yourself, just to be thatcertain about just who you are
you know, I mean, I don't evenknow if it's a certainty thing,
as much as a dedication to whatyou actually say.
Yeah, because he believes hecan get us to Mars.
Like, yeah, I don't believe Icould pay right next month.
You know what I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I keep bringing up this quote.
What is it?
It's Lewis, when he says he'slike one day I hope you'll be
old enough to start believing infairy tales again.
You know, I mean and we've saidit on the podcast before but
it's like men don't get old,they stop dreaming before.
But it's like men don't get old, they stop dreaming.
(03:06):
And it's like I think somewherealong the way we can just lose
track and get so caught up inthe mundane that we stop
believing that God could doreally cool things through
nobodies.
But that's kind of the story ofthe whole Bible and I don't
know.
Man, it's funny Did you bringthis up?
Because I talked to my wifeabout it because she was like
you know, it was weird.
She's like I used to have allthese dreams and all these
(03:29):
things that I wanted to do andlike weird stuff, things that
didn't even totally make sense,and she was like you had none.
You're like I'm going to workhard and just try to stay alive
so I can provide for it.
And she's like now, when I talkto you, you got to these big,
grandiose dreams and she's likeI'm just trying to get laundry
done.
You know, it's been weird.
I just think there's differenttimes in life where the focus is
(03:50):
just in different places, um,but I do think it's really
important that we practice,let's say, faith, you know, like
, practice faith, like get getgood at expecting big things
from a really big God.
Yeah, and I like to think aboutit this way God will make sure
you get to the other side, buthe's asking you to row with the
(04:13):
oars, you know, and sometimes Ijust think we punt on it.
We stay in the lake, you know,and God's like I'll get you
there, but he's asking you torow and it's hard, do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I was thinking about this the other day, actually,
like what you were just talkingabout.
Yeah, how your wife is like I'mjust worrying about laundry,
you got these grandiose things.
Yeah, that's just part of likesometimes in life.
We just get this momentum, yeah, like just this track of I'm
just going to do the best I can.
Here.
Somebody notices Now I'mpromoted, now I'm promoted and
I'm doing my best here.
I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Incremental Now.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm promoted and like you're just getting these
momentums and you start gettingthese ideas and dreams and the
light punches you in the face.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You need to go back down to the bottom row Sometimes
you know, I think, uh, I thinkthere is something to be said
about like, um, consistentlyworking at something.
I just think it has to besomething big enough that you're
actually interested in beinguncomfortable to bring it about.
You know, and I do think therehas to be some drops of, this
(05:13):
could happen, I can make thathappen, we could do that, you
know.
Well, how could you do that?
I don't know, but I'm going tostart working that direction, I
guess.
I think I'm always surprised athow much gets done, you know,
by consistently working atsomething in small increments.
You know, just over and over,and over and over again.
You ever been amazed at howproficient Tim you can become at
like a video game?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh, yeah, you know what I mean.
Well, I do it with my own job,right?
When I first did maintenancestuff, dude, I hated doing
toilets because I did not knowanything about them.
But then I took on every toiletI could possibly take on and
now I could do it with my eyesclosed.
I just became more proficientat it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's not a big deal.
I can tell you the precisespeed at which that water spins
1.3 gallons per no.
My point in bringing it up was,like people do it all the time,
they just do it in weird areas.
Like people become proficientat securing their seat on Sunday
(06:09):
morning before everyone elsedoes.
I will get that seat.
That is my seat.
If somebody else tries to getit, I will get it first.
First, you know what I mean.
Like, like I said, I brought upvideo games.
A lot of people spend a ton oftime getting very proficient at
a video game.
Okay, you know I have anaffinity for Skyrim, right, I
love.
Like once and once a year I geton that game and it's a problem
(06:30):
and I just need to stop.
But it's a.
It's one of those things whereit's like man, you can become
proficient to something with theamount of hours you put in it.
Now, why don't we do that withthings that matter?
And I think it's because wedon't believe we can do it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, or there's not that sense of gratification from
it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, I think the gratification comes from seeing
something happen, or like seeingprogress, but I think we just
want to see it faster or morelike I just think we talk
ourselves out of the reality ofit actually happening, which to
me is just faithlessness, that'strue, you know, like this would
never happen.
Right why even bother trying,yeah, making progress, but is it
(07:05):
really anything?
Does it really matter?
You know, and I just, I don'tknow, man, I think, when the
Bible talks about Satan comingto steal, kill and destroy,
right, he's a.
He prowls around like a roaringlion looking for someone to
devour and I just think, uh, Ithink oftentimes that means
dreams, ambitions, hopes, thingsthat you're actually trying to
(07:28):
accomplish, the hard work thatyou put into something.
I mean, how often do we throw,you know, I don't know if this
is it all the time, but like acold bucket of water on our
ideas of what could be greatbefore we even get there?
What Satan is not throwing acold bucket of water on is
you're, you're, you know, youleveling up whatever character
you're working on, or yougetting through that, that
(07:48):
obscure game that you'respending time with, or whatever,
like the things that don'tmatter.
There's, there's not a lot ofopposition towards the things
that do matter.
You find yourself talkingyourself out of all the time,
and I just think we shouldconsider as Christians maybe
it's not you talking yourselfout of it, maybe there is
something trying to talk you outof it.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, but I think there's also the you know I want
to do.
If I have an hour spare time, Iwant to play a video game
because that's going to be fun,rather than build upon something
that may or may not happen.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Put in a lot of work and effort on something.
But I think it's that, I thinkit's that, I think it's that may
or may not happen thing.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'll tell you what, certainly won't happen is the
thing you decided not to dobecause you're playing video
games.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Life is short, justin you know life is short, enjoy
every hour.
You know, miss it entirely.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Video games help that time pass pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's like.
It's like how about, instead ofliving the life that you have,
have that is short and fleetingand valuable, why don't you
spend it actually not doing lifeand make it shorter?
Yeah, you know, hmm, hmm, whatdo I think?
I'm guilty.
I'm guilty, so I'm not eventrying to take us down that
rabbit hole.
(08:57):
But, tim, what are we actuallytalking about today?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
What is our topic?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The longest opening ever we got the commandment.
What?
Eight number eight today.
Okay, so we're talking aboutdon't be a kleptomaniac, don't
be, do not steal, don't bestealing, yeah, don't be.
Don't be thieving it seems likethe most obvious and easiest
one to follow oh man, you know,and maybe that's why it's a
(09:22):
tricky one is because it's soinsidious.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Like.
I saw some statistics.
I don't even know how accuratethis is.
I'd love to look it up now.
It was something like in theUnited States.
They projected that employeeshad stolen from their employers
something like $28 billion.
Wow, like some insane amount,and it wasn't just You're
(09:49):
talking about like paper clips.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Well, this is the thing.
This is what's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Not just embezzling money, oh okay, but also like
stealing product amount of stuffthat people were taking home
that they're not supposed totake home.
How many people work somewhereand you got stuff from your job
that's at your house.
You know what I mean.
You don't give a second thoughtto it or you know random things
going on.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
My cupboard is full of the plates we used to serve
on when we did the kitchen days.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Oh, the old ones yeah yeah, yeah, that's good,
because I'm pretty sure thosewere getting thrown out, but the
reality is people take stuffthat they shouldn't.
And then you brought one upright Like time, yeah, okay.
So like time fraud is a bigdeal.
It's a big deal.
People do this thing wherethey're like okay, let's say
(10:38):
you're scheduled for eight hoursand you get your hour long
lunch break, and then theaverage person, I think, spends
something like two and a halfhours scrolling through like
media, social media Instagram,tiktok, whatever it is reels.
(10:58):
If you're a guy, it's probablyYouTube and clickbait, you know.
Probably YouTube and clickbait,you know.
And then the other portion thatpeople spend the majority of
their time on Tim, on theinternet instead of work, is
looking for other jobs.
Oh, that's funny.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So it's like I'm doing a bad job here at this job
.
I'm currently robbing myemployer of the time and the
funds that they're pouring intomy account by doing this, and
I'm looking for another personthat will supply me and give me
more to do the same thing I'mdoing currently where I'm at.
That's funny.
So people do this, man, likewhen you think about yeah, like
(11:39):
time, like okay, like taxevasion is another one.
You know what I mean.
Where people are like I don'thave to pay taxes, I don't want
to do that, I would say insane.
Interest rates is another waythat people steal.
Our government steals fromfreaking everyone on an ongoing
basis.
Inflation is theft.
I mean, there's a ton of stuffthat you can get into.
(12:00):
Where people have just becomeit's become a normal thing to
manipulate people and take whatdoes not belong to you, whether
from someone or not, giving tosomeone.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It sounded more of what's like stealing and more
like stop taking advantage ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, ultimately, that's what it is is taking what
does not belong to you orwithholding from someone what
belongs to them.
Right, this goes back toGenesis.
This is property.
So we can talk about capitalismfor a minute if you want to,
but in the garden, if you'rewondering, like what is this
capitalist idea?
That is not a Christian idea,okay, right, but let me just
(12:40):
hang on.
So this idea that God puts Adamin the garden and he tells him
to work the ground and to eatthe produce of the ground, the
idea is that God gave Adam aplace, property, and he gave him
land to work and that he wouldeat the fruit of his own hands
(13:03):
because it would belong to him.
And that he would eat the fruitof his own hands because it
would belong to him.
The work that he put in, theproduct of that work belonged to
him.
It became his property.
So the whole Lockean idea oflife, liberty and property was
the original idea.
Pursuit of happiness is thisidea.
The idea was that happiness,this picture, was these that I
(13:24):
could have a reasonable living,I could work with my hands and
actually enjoy the fruit of mylabor.
These things God gives topeople, and we have a lot of
Christians out there that havelike these communist ideas that
are like nobody owns anythingand we all.
It's some utopian, weird andit's like that's actually not
biblical values.
(13:44):
Biblical values actuallyreinforce this idea that you get
to enjoy the fruit of yourlabor, the work of your hands,
the property that you have, andGod actually gives those things
to humans, to mankind, so thatthey would flourish.
There are verses inThessalonians that are like if a
man doesn't work, don't let himeat.
(14:04):
How would you say that in achurch?
Are you kidding me?
What a horrible thing.
But ironically I would saysomeone, tim, who is not working
and living off of other people,we would call that theft, right
producing.
If you're not helpingcontribute to society and you're
demanding society take care ofyou, what you're actually doing
(14:27):
is robbing.
You're stealing from thosepeople to benefit yourself.
It's a problem.
So this whole idea of you know,this capitalistic idea of life,
liberty and property andworking and getting the fruit of
your hands and people notgetting to take a giant chunk of
your own stuff because they'rejust less fortunate I'm using
(14:48):
air quotes here and we can talkthrough it.
It is, it's not a biblicalprinciple.
God says what you work for, theland that you have, the fruit
of your labor, that's yours andGod wants you to have that, and
it's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I was thinking of the verse in Ecclesiastes yeah, eat
, drink and be merry, so you canenjoy the fruits of your labor
at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, well, that's the whole idea of pursuing
happiness is this.
I could actually make somethingof myself and I can go as far
as I want.
So if Elon Musk says I don'thave a giant house, that I've
designed and made all this stuff, why?
Because I want this.
Yeah, there's an economy oftime here.
What do you want to spend yourtime working on?
What do you want to do?
And you will be robbing fromthis to pay for this.
(15:27):
You know what I mean.
You are take, you are notinfinite.
Every decision you make is adecision not to do something
else.
Right, and so every, every nois a stronger yes, and every yes
is a stronger no, right.
So if you say yes to something,you are saying no to something
else, and if you say no tosomething, what you're saying is
(15:48):
something is more importantthan what that thing is.
And not frequently we don't.
We don't think about an economyof time in that sense.
But yeah, I think peoplehonestly, tim, I think people
steal all the time you grow up,you know when you're a kid
you're stealing music.
It's a normal thing to want tosteal.
You know the candy bar at thisplace when you're a kid.
I'll just take that with me.
(16:09):
But then it becomes weird lateron in your life when you can
take things that don't belong toyou and just assume it's okay
or it's not a big deal, orsomehow.
I think this is what people do,is they deserve.
I noticed I was playing thisboard game with them and um,
trying to trying to spend moretime just goofing off with them
(16:29):
talking, and one of it was likethere was a card where it said,
um, give to the give to the poorwas one option on this card
that you could like succeed atand do that.
Or it was steal from the richand my kids.
Every time we're picking steelfrom the rich and I was like it
reminded me of that quote.
Right, the middle class doesn'tlove the poor, they just hate
(16:51):
the rich.
Right, it's like you didn't.
It's not that you wanted tohelp the people that didn't have
anything, you just didn't wantthose suckers to have it.
Right, there's something in usthat wants to create our own
standard and say my will be doneinstead of God's will.
And if they have that, it mustmean that they were corrupt and
(17:12):
did something wrong.
And look, here's the deal.
We know that some people whoare rich, are corrupt, Okay.
So that doesn't help, but Iwould say the spectrum is both
directions All right.
So I would say there are veryrich people who are very wicked,
(17:32):
and I would say there are veryrich people who are also very
righteous, and I would say thereare very poor people who are
very wicked and there are verypoor people who are very
righteous.
And it's not a one for oneRight and it's not a one for one
you know, and I think we wantto always categorize people from
a Marxist mentality, which isthey have that because they were
(17:55):
in a place of power and they'vecontinued to withhold that from
other people.
I'm like that's Marxism, that'snot Moses, that's garbage,
that's not God.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I've seen that too with, just like with these LA
Fires All the celebrity homesgetting burnt down.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's like, ah, they could afford a new one, yeah,
just no mercy at all, even withCOVID, you know when all these
celebrities came out singingthese stupid songs and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, we all got to come together, people, and like
yeah you're alone in yourmansion.
Ooh, freaking who.
You know what I mean Well it'sa weird deal.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Where we do, we tend to scorn or dislike people
because they are doing well, andI think that is a in general,
that is a very sinful thing.
What's funny is that incultures past let's say, old
America that was something thatwas valued.
You would look up to thatperson Wow, how did you do this?
(18:47):
I hope to one day be able to dowhat you did.
I hope to be able to build whatyou were able to build and and
hand this onto my own kids andwe would value those people and
say, man, it's amazing what theydid.
Now we see those people andthey're like you're just corrupt
.
Everyone is assumed to becorrupt, and I get it.
There's a lot of that going on.
There's a lot that is not thatway, and a lot of people worked
really hard for a lot of those.
(19:07):
There's a balance there ofunderstanding each situation is
different, but the big pointhere is no matter what, you are
not allowed to decide whetheryou get to steal from someone or
not.
You don't then get to say, well, because you're this, I deserve
that.
That is a wicked heart that istrying to create its own Ten
(19:29):
Commandments and live by thoseinstead of what God has actually
communicated.
And let's be honest, peoplesteal from God all the time, all
the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Take advantage of his grace.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, I would say, take advantage of his grace.
I would poke it tithe here aswell.
People, I don't understand it.
Okay.
So God says don't do somethingin the Bible.
You're like, yes, shouldn't dothat in the Bible, you can do
stuff like tithe.
And people are like, well, itdoesn't really mean that, that's
(20:03):
old testament.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It doesn't have to mean that.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's ridiculous, whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like well, it's not really a thing, and it's like
you know one of a pastor that Ilove.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
He says this all the time.
He says the last thing to beconverted is somebody's
pocketbook.
You know it's like totallybelieve, love the Bible, love
the word Great.
Do you put your money whereyour mouth is when it comes to
(20:35):
that?
Well, not that we do this thing, tim.
This is.
I'm sorry I'm going down awormhole here, but I'm just
going to go and I get it, causethis is the one I hear all the
time.
Um, I tithe in time, or I tithein my gifts and service here, or
I tithe by uh, you know,whenever somebody needs my truck
or something, I'll use that.
Or I tithe instead of here.
I give to this place instead,or these three other places that
(20:56):
I really like what they do.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Imagine Tim or I'm paying these three children from
across the world, nicaragua orsomething yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Imagine you are a drywaller.
All right, which isbackbreaking work.
By the way, epic uh respect Ifyou do that, especially the
sanding port.
I hate sanding so much.
If you're good at it, if you'regood at mudding, that makes the
standing a heck of a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm getting caught up here.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Okay, imagine you do a massive job.
You drywall, uh like a wholeyou know remodeling project in a
basement or something bigproject.
Get it all done, carry all thestuff, mud it all, sand it all,
get it all ready to go, and thensomebody tells you you bill
them and instead of paying you,they say I'm going to pay you in
my time.
Uh, what would you like me todo for you?
(21:42):
You know what I mean.
I'm not good at any of thisstuff or that stuff, but I can.
You know I can, uh, I can makeyou dinner a couple of nights a
week or something.
Like that's not going to work,pal.
I got to rent, I got to do this, I got to do that.
Like that doesn't make sense.
Or somebody's like here's whatI'm going to do.
I'm going to take what I wasgoing to pay you, uh, for the
services down here, and I'mgoing to give it to a bunch of
(22:05):
other people that I think aredoing really good stuff.
Also, I know you are the placeor the person that was doing
this for me, but ultimatelythere's just other places I
think I should give it to.
I just don't get it.
Like it's weird to me.
People are like yes, this istotally fine, we've decided that
(22:27):
we can come up with whatevereconomy we want in this area.
And like, when it comes to God,when it comes to the church,
when it comes to all this stuff,it cracks me up how often
people come up with reasons forwhy what God said and how we're
supposed to do things justdoesn't apply to them.
And I get to decide.
However, I want to followthrough on that.
I'm like yikes, do you get todo that with murder and adultery
too?
Or just you know, just this oneand this was the whole thing in
(22:51):
Malachi, you know.
God basically says hey, you'rerobbing me.
And they're like how are werobbing you?
They're like what you'rebringing to the temple?
Remember how I asked for, likeyou know, blemishless sheep, and
they were supposed to be puttogether.
He's like you know what you'redoing.
You're taking all the blemishedsheep, all the sick ones and
all the weird broken, jacked-upsheep, and you're like this is
(23:12):
fine, this is cool, right, god,totally cool.
And he's like not cool.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Have you read Cain and Abel?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The picture that the Bible gives you is God gave you.
All of it belongs to God andGod gives you 90%.
100% belongs to him and hegives you 90% to honor and do a
good job with.
And he says give me the 10.
And we're like how about I payyou in mowing the lawn?
You know, that's not how thatworks.
(23:43):
It's tricky and we don't haveto go down the wormhole and
tithe the whole time.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Tithing is hard for me for a lot of different
reasons.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, I think maybe let's get into those because it
might be fine.
I don't want to wander awayfrom stealing, but I do think
there is a very real realitywhere we rob God and then we
blame people for why we robbedGod, and I don't think that
works.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
When you're talking about stealing and not tithing.
I think that hits me a littledifferent.
Okay, for sure, yeah, buttithing's hard, like I said,
when you're strugglingfinancially period.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, and you have some guywho's better off than you
telling you give me more money,Not saying that, but that's how
it's kind of perceived.
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
mean when you're kind of bitter towards stuff like
that, you fail to hear the goodthings that come out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But what I um it's, it's hard.
What I think um at least worthnoting in this particular topic
is that most people who are in aspot where they feel like it's
hard to tithe because of this orbecause of that never come out
of that spot.
They don't come out of it.
They don't like start makingmoney and then start giving.
They never come out of it.
(24:54):
They just continue in what theywere doing and continue with
the same reasons even when theydo have um.
Either you are giving becauseyou're trusting God with it, and
if it sucks, it sucks, uh andor it's going really well and
I'm able to tithe or give more,even, or whatever, because this
has become a normal part of mylife.
(25:15):
I just trust this to God andhe's going to have to do the
rest.
But most people who have thementality of I don't have enough
or this is going on, havealways been in that spot and
even when they're out of thatspot, they don't change their
mentality about it in the firstplace because ultimately it's
just a hard heart, this is ahard thing, I don't want to do
it and so I'm not going to umyou want me to tithe, then God
(25:36):
pay me more.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what that's.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
My point is that people then get it, but they
don't become more generousActually this was a study done
forever ago that poor are farmore generous than the rich,
which tells you something aboutwhy they got rich.
Potentially you know what Imean Like hey, if you're more
frugal or more careful with yourmoney, maybe you just do better
with it in general.
That's interesting.
I heard something else.
(25:59):
Well, percentage-wise they givemore right, like
percentage-wise, yeah, I'm sorry.
Percentage-wise the poor givemore.
Obviously, in overall numbers,the rich give more because they
can.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, no, I think what I'm.
What I heard was the rich stayrich because they act like
they're poor.
Poor stay poor because theyspend like they're rich.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, there's there's some, there's some truth there,
I think.
Yeah, yeah, I think percentagewise, there's some interesting
stuff to look at.
But I say this to say when wethink about tithing, when we
think about church, you thinkabout giving to God, robbing God
.
The question is ultimatelyabout trust.
What are you actually trustingto take care of you when crap
(26:43):
hits the fan, when things do notgo right?
Is it ultimately that I'mtrusting my financial situation
to work out and I'm going to beable to make this happen?
I got it?
Or are you saying God's goingto have to end up in poverty and
(27:16):
not in a good place?
Eventually, if you're doing thewrong things, if you're robbing
God or you're robbing people,you'll continue to find yourself
poor.
That's the joke about drug money, right?
Is?
It just disappears.
What happened to it?
It vanished.
Now I got to do this evil thingagain.
I got to keep doing this tomake it work, and I think we
oftentimes get in a cycle oflike um, not being in a great
(27:38):
spot.
Now there's some guys like uh,uh, some financial advisors and
stuff who will say things likeokay, cool, if you got X amount
of debt, put this towards thisand then, once this is gone,
then you can start tithing inthis area and I'd say, okay, I'm
not like, I'm not trying tobeat somebody down who's in a
super bad spot.
So if you're like dude, I don'teven know how I would figure
(27:59):
this out or how this would work,I get that.
I'd say, meet with some peopleand at least start with figuring
out how you get in a good place.
But I would say, if you startmaking progress and you're not
putting God first in this area,you never will.
Either you make a consciousdecision to do that or you will
continue to come up with reasonsfor why what God has asked of
(28:19):
you is unacceptable and you'rejust unable to do it.
This is what a lot of people dowith their marriage.
It's what a lot of people dowith their habit of lying.
It's what a lot of people dowith their addiction.
Is my circumstance is differentthan other people's
circumstance, therefore I don'thave to, but we feel more
justified about that, I think,with money than anything else.
And I mean I have reasonspotentially for why, but I just
(28:44):
think it's a sin that we feelmore acceptable about because
you're viewed as a monster thesecond you bring it up.
You know what I mean.
Like how dare you right If Godtalks about it and you're a
pastor and you don't talk aboutit, you're probably being a
little bit unfaithful.
But ultimately, this idea oftheft man, it's rampant.
(29:06):
And I would say the government,like I said, steals from people
.
I would say people steal frompeople, employees steal from
employers.
Employers oftentimes willwithhold from employees.
People do stuff online all thetime where they'll sell
something that says it's thisand it's not.
You rip somebody off.
That's a type of theft.
(29:27):
There's all kinds of people whoare caught up in stuff like
this and whether it's small orwhether it's large, it's
actually rampant.
So when we read you shall notsteal, we tend to think that
we're not, and I think the Bibleputs this in here strategically
, because I think we arehardwired to steal apart from
the grace of God, and the firstperson that we tend to steal
(29:49):
from is God.
And then when we steal from God, then we feel also justified in
stealing from other people,because we put ourself in a
place where we feel like, well,my law is actually more
important than God's law,because I know better than he
does in this area.
And then we apply oftentimesthose same standards in our
inner workings with other people, which is again where the two
(30:09):
tables of the law.
You have to love God, and thenit shows you it.
It comes out in how you lovepeople.
But if you're not loving God inthis particular area, that's
also going to show up in how youtreat other people.
And I would just encouragepeople in their life and in
their thinking, man, takeinventory.
How cool are you with leavingearly when you're getting paid
(30:32):
by the hour?
How OK are you with takingstuff from work that you're not
really supposed to?
How cool are you withwithholding something from
somebody that you're notactually supposed to?
Are you robbing the Lord?
Are you robbing people?
And I would say, if you'redoing one, you're probably doing
both and maybe you just haven'ttotally thought about it.
(30:53):
But we have hearts that areconstantly desiring things that
do not belong to us, and theBible is saying you've got to
get ahead of that, and how youtreat the Lord ends up being how
you treat other people.
And so just this might be anepisode that people absolutely
hate.
Tim, I don't know, I didn't.
I guess I didn't think that wewere going to get into tithing
(31:14):
and then I was like oh yeah, butpeople rob God.
So here we, here we are.
Give me your thoughts on this,tim.
Give me your take.
What do you?
What do you think about whenyou think about this Don't steal
this.
You shall not steal.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know, like the first inclination is don't take
something that doesn't belong toyou.
Sure, all right.
But then let me ask you thenthat age old philosophical
question Would you still breadto feed your family?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, great question, great question.
I think what's interestingabout the Bible, especially in
Proverbs, is it says basically,don't punish a man who steals to
feed his family.
Oh really, which is weird.
Yeah, like now you're supposedto punish for stealing, like so
if somebody takes something andit does not in fact belong to
(32:02):
them, okay, there's a problem Ifsomebody is literally starving
to death and they take somethingto feed their family.
The Bible actually had it kindof written in there yeah, help
the guy out, right?
You know what I mean.
When people would like harvestfields, tim, they would
literally tell people hey, don'tgo back and clean up the extra
stuff that you didn't get toleave that for the poor, leave
(32:24):
it for them, which is like, well, isn, isn't that theft?
Not if god commands you to giveit to them.
Ironically, people would robgod and go ahead and go back
through and take it, and then itwouldn't, then they wouldn't
have anything for the poor andby robbing god they would be
robbing everyone else that was,uh, the verses that came to my
(32:46):
head.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Man was the John the Baptist sermon of God's coming.
He's going to chop out theroots.
Like what should we do?
It's like if you have twotunics, give the neighbor one
who doesn't have one.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, take care of them.
Take care of them.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Jesus talks about it too, and then James talks about
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, there's a culture of hospitality.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
There's this culture there.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
yeah, it's, that was supposed to exist where people
are still going to take care ofeach other and like laws about
hey, you're not allowed to givesomebody this much if they're
not actually able to pay youback without endangering their
livelihood.
We've got creditors now thatare like, yeah, spend it right,
like it's dangerous.
What people do, let's say anungodly society, produces a
(33:29):
greater amount of poverty and agreater amount of wickedness,
because people are more okaywith stealing from people than
they should be.
And so if you're more okay withstealing from people, you also
become more, let's say,aggressive in areas where you
shouldn't.
When God is saying, no, you'resupposed to give to that.
You should take care of thepoor.
You should care about thesethings.
Now, does that mean I'm a fanof the poor doing a bunch of
wicked things and getting awaywith it?
(33:50):
No, what that means is, ifsomebody is legitimately hurting
, you as a Christian should tryto help that person, and if
they're in such a place where,literally, my family is going to
starve to death and you have itwithin your means to help them
out, you should help them out.
Does that mean the governmentshould obligate you to allow
people to steal from you?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
No, no, that's different, especially with, like
, money issues.
Yeah, I'll never ask people formoney.
It's necessary, but I alwaysfeel like if I'm asking for
money, it's because I didsomething wrong.
Yeah, therefore I need to atonefor this.
Yeah, not anybody else, right?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Which is another way of saying again that I am the
sovereign in this area.
Yeah, and how dare anybody elsespeak into it or have anything
to do with it?
And it's like no, you got tolet God speak into every area of
your life.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Well, that's the thing.
Sometimes that sucks, I'll fixit.
God, I'll fix it, don't worry,I'll get this right, I'll do it
your way.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
After I do it my way to fix it, so I can do it your
way.
Does that work in any otherarea of life for you?
No, and look, I got to tell you, Tim, I am not a wizard when it
comes to finances.
I am not that guy.
I'm far from it.
Okay, Made lots of mistakes.
Me and Tiff accrued gosh like abunch of debt.
(35:06):
Early on I think I proposedthat I was making like $10 an
hour.
You know what I mean.
Sometimes we just, we were just, things just did not work out.
We never had a lot.
Frequently we've had in ourhouse not recently, but
frequently we've had barecupboards trying to make it work
, trying to figure out how isthis going to happen, how are we
(35:27):
going to pay for that?
Holes in socks, need and stuff.
I mean, dude, five kids, oneincome, pastor salary.
It is not always been great andwe haven't always done
everything right, but I can saywith a clean conscience we've
never robbed God and he's takencare of us.
And I'm not saying everything'salways been comfortable, dude.
Sometimes it's been hard andI've given away stuff that I
(35:49):
shouldn't have and like, oh, ifI would have done that again,
that guy didn't you know?
Whatever, whatever.
But I think it's important thatand some of this I got to
credit my dad for because he wascrazy about this, but he taught
us from a very young age.
You got to do this and if itjust becomes a norm for you, you
get rid of it.
You just give it to God Beforeyou stare at it too long.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
You get tempted to do something stupid.
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And that doesn't mean , oh, I'm always going to have
enough and everything's going togo perfect.
It means it will always haveenough, that God will take care
of you.
It doesn't mean every bill willbe paid on time and this and
that you do the best that youcan to God and honor him and
(36:34):
start there and work throughwhat the difficulties are that I
need to handle, then rob Godand then try to make it on my
own without his blessing.
In that area.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
That's the other thing with tithing.
For me, man was always I'mdoing this because I have to,
but not because my heart tellsme I should.
I'm okay with that, like I'mdoing this, so God will bless me
.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
No, no, no Like, let me Because that's how it's
preached a lot.
Let me help with this, becausethat pisses me off too.
Okay, imagine somebody was likeTim you don't murder people
because you have to, you murder.
You don't murder people becauseyou get to.
Right, okay, right, look, I getit.
And I've said this the heartposture should be a get to, not
(37:20):
a have to.
I don't want to do checklistmentality.
However, not everything in lifeis just daisies and roses and
freaking fun and perfect.
Hard things require sacrificebecause they are in fact, better
, and you're not going to makeit to Mars if you're working on
a bougie house.
Right Again, it's the sameprinciple coming back up, and I
would say, with everything thatwe're talking about.
Sometimes people are like well,if my heart isn't right yet,
(37:41):
then it's okay to beat my wife,because I'd rather not beat my
wife for the right reason thanthe wrong one.
You know what a stupid thing tosay no, like do the right thing
, even when you don't feel likeit, because that's actually
that's worship.
It's not what.
It was awesome and everythingwas best case scenario, but I
(38:03):
gave something of value.
I brought that verse up from 2Samuel.
I bring it up all the time 24,24.
I won't give to the Lordsomething that costs me nothing,
and sometimes people want tofeel like I'll only give to the
Lord when it doesn't feel likeit costs me anything, because
that's when I feel best about it.
God doesn't care about yourfeelings as much as he cares
(38:23):
about your honest heart desireto do the right thing, even when
it's difficult.
And sometimes I think we mixthose up, like if it's really
difficult and I don't feel greatabout obeying God here, then
that must be wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I must be a hypocrite .
And he's saying no, what that?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
is is worship Cause.
What you're saying is dang it,I don't want to do this, but I'm
going to because I love God andI love doing what he says, more
than I love this easy way outin this particular circumstance.
That that is what it's supposedto look like.
You think the disciples arelike you know what I love?
Being homeless, walking around,I just get to do this, isn't
(39:01):
this great?
I get to do it all the time,you know, like they're getting
into arguments and pissing eachother off, and it wasn't always
great.
Look, it's just.
It really.
I just I would like to remindeverybody that doing things when
you don't necessarily feelabout it again I've said it
before is not hypocrisy, it'scharacter, and what it means is
there is something deeper in methat wants to do the right thing
(39:21):
than the easy way out.
That seems acceptable right now, and if you're saying, I'll do
it when my heart's in a betterplace, what I'm hearing you say
is I actually have a deeperallegiance to something else
other than what I know to beright, and so I'm going to punt
on what's right in the name ofwhat I think is better, and
that's self-worship.
(39:42):
That's something else entirelyand I'm guilty of that, so I
wouldn't want people to hear mesay this like well, I guess
Justin just always does theright thing all the time.
No, I get it growing that I'mworking at it.
But I would not want to confusepeople.
When people say, like it'srelationship, not religion,
sometimes it makes me angrybecause there's a sense in which
(40:04):
a hundred percent yeah, yeah,it's a relationship with God.
But what you mean byrelationship, not religion is
you're only doing it right Ifyour heart is 110% in it, then
you're going to fail yourmarriage, you're going to fail
your kids, you're going to quityour job, you're going to quit
doing hard things because yourheart is never going to be 100%
(40:26):
into the right thing that you'resupposed to do.
Because this is a fallen worldand you are a broken person.
There's a sense in which yoursoul, your spirit, your
allegiance has to be tosomething greater than you, or
you are always going to fall tothe level of your emotions in
any given minute.
You know any given circumstance.
(40:48):
So when we think about the 10commandments in general, we
think about not stealing.
Sin is always trying to get youto settle for second best.
Second best is the video gameyou could be playing instead of
the book you could be writing,right, right.
And you have to make aconscious decision in the moment
not to rob God, not to robothers.
(41:11):
But ultimately, what we'retalking about right now is not
robbing yourself, because if Godis calling you to something,
he's put a call on your life,he's put something in your heart
.
He's saying if you give yourallegiance to me first and you
learn discipline here, then whenI'm actually calling you to do
something that will benefit youand get you where you need to go
(41:31):
, then you will not rob yourselfof the destiny that I've called
you to as well.
But if you're willing to rob me, then you're going to be
willing to rob others andultimately you're going to rob
yourself because you lackdiscipline in all the areas, and
what allows you to see that thebills paid and the things taken
care of is not just your,ultimately, your tenacity in
(41:54):
something, but your allegianceto God's way of doing things.
That then shows up in theseother areas.
People say it this way God'snot into your money, or God's
not trying to get your money.
He's trying to get your moneyfrom having you right.
Which is another way of sayingdon't be a slave to those things
.
Continue to do what God hascalled you to do.
And I would just I would say toa lot of people you're robbing
(42:16):
yourself when you're robbing God, because ultimately, you're
punting on what he's called youto do and something greater, in
the name of what you think makesmore sense in the moment, and
that is what is killing all ofus, ladies and gentlemen, that's
true.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So just a good reminder.
Hard sacrifice Reminds me ofthe show I watched or read I
don't remember what it was.
You know the story of themonkey paw.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, I'm about to learn Everyone lean in.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm probably going to butcher this, but I've heard
this a long time ago.
You're going to monkey it up.
Some gypsy sells this monkeypaw to these two mom and dad who
just lost their son.
Okay, and they said this monkeyPaul grants wishes.
It's like, well, we wish forour son to come back.
Well, it turns into a horrormovie because the son comes back
, but it's not the son that died.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I mean Okay.
It's like a monster show it'slike a zombie or something he's
banging on the doors, trying toget in to kill his family.
Some kind of Frankensteinmonster.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
It's a moral story of care for what you wish for.
It's never going to work outthe way you think it is, but
when you think of sacrifice andhard men and those other objects
in this house too, where it'slike a typewriter that can write
horror stories but the peopledie in real life- oh geez,
there's always like somestipulation, there's a catch.
Yeah, and I'm constantlythinking of that because I'm
(43:30):
like I'd do that.
If I'm constantly thinking ofthat because I'm like I'd do
that, if I'm being realistic,maybe not the kill people one,
but there's you just want thiseasy Not on the air while we're
talking about it out loud.
If somebody were to come to youlike hey, I will give you this.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
But it's going to cost this.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
You know what I mean.
It's an interesting thought forme.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
You know, can I tell you why I think it's tantalizing
?
Because, it doesn't requirefaith.
Yeah, If I just know what it'sgoing to cost, then I do it.
No, you wouldn't.
No, you wouldn't I just.
I just think it's our desire tobe in control.
This is why a lot of peoplefall into witchcraft, man Cause
so many people are like, if Iknow the cost, then I can
maintain control.
(44:15):
And it puts me in this positionwhere I can leverage this to
get what I want.
And it's like there's it's theopposite of faithlessness.
Yeah, or it's the opposite offaith.
It's this faithlessness that'scontinuing to put itself on
display, and I just think it'smore like God saying trust me,
I'll balance the scales, I'llwork it out.
(44:37):
You don't take from otherpeople, don't take from them,
don't withhold from them, and indoing that, I will continue to
give to you and you will be ableto not take from the story that
I'm writing for you, and it'llbe a whole different story.
If you would live that kind ofway and I just think we should
we would do well, as Christians,to embrace the story God has
(44:59):
for us, live under theconstraints that he's given to
us, whether we want to or not,in certain circumstances, and
allow God to write the storythat you were meant to live.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Let me ask you this real quick yeah, I'm going to
end with this, but when you'retalking about, like, the desires
of your heart, that you knowyou can play video games or you
could write a book right, orwhatever feel in the blink, do
you think there's moments inyour life, though, that you can
look back on and be like, ohyeah, that actually kind of
makes sense for me, like peoplehave said that about throughout
the years, so I must try tothink of a way to, like,
(45:33):
motivate you to do the thingthat God has placed in you to do
.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Like identifying what I should be doing.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
That, as we go through life like people have
called out in us that you didn'tbelieve at the time or still
don't.
Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I think,um not to say things would be
easy with the things that Godwants you to do, but to say, oh,
not to say things would be easywith the things that God wants
you to do, but to say, oh, youknow what this actually makes
sense, and if you tell someonehe's like that makes sense for
you.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I'm just weird enough to believe that you can punt on
things that you should havedone.
I do.
I think there are some peoplewho are given a calling or a
unique ability or something thatthey should be able to do and
(46:16):
then don't do it before God andthen end up losing all of it.
Like Saul, to me, is one ofthese people.
God gives him the nation, hescrews up a bunch of stuff and
then gets it taken away from him, and you can say God took that
away from him, or you can say hetook it away from himself.
Right, and I think oftentimesin our life although I believe
in God's sovereign decree and wecould get into all that stuff
what I would like to zoom in onis the reality that the
(46:39):
decisions that we make do infact have consequences, and
either you can live a life,let's say, that is intentionally
more adventurous, full of faith, a little bit crazier, and may
or may not go the way that youthink it will, but it will be
awesome, or you can short upyour bets, you can play it safe.
You can never leave thecul-de-sac and you can blame God
(47:01):
for not being cool and say allthe stuff that people said about
me and the cool things thatcould have happened.
They were just saying, theywere just words.
It didn't mean anything.
They were wrong, they were nice.
And uh, and both of those peoplewill be right, right.
You know, what if it'ssomething that didn't like?
(47:21):
There's no indication at all inyour life that this is what
you're supposed to do, but yetthere's something in you that
says?
you have to do it.
I think the person who saysthere was no signs about who I
was or what I was supposed to dois lying.
Really.
I mean, I think this.
I don't really like this asmuch.
This is fun.
This comes naturally.
This does not come naturally.
Everyone is always analyzingsome level of the work that
(47:44):
they're doing and who they are.
This is why everybody is soobsessed with Enneagram and
Myers-Briggs and all thesedifferent personality tests.
Everybody's like trying toanalyze who am.
I you know?
Um, I think it's natural to us.
The question is not who are you, Although that is incredibly
important, but it's what are yougoing to do about it?
Um, and a lot of people want tofudge the rules and, uh, they
(48:07):
want to do things their own way.
Yeah, exactly.
And what they find is they getFrankenstein's monster instead
of the thing that they werehoping to actually get, because
you, uh, you know there's nofree lunch.
You know what I mean.
It's either you do it the rightway Uh, what's what's the word?
It was um either you, um,either it's really hard now or
(48:30):
it's really hard later.
And it's like the point waseither you're disciplined now
and have to put in a lot of hardwork and you have a good
outcome, or you're undisciplinedand you have equal amount of
hard work.
That comes along with justbeing undisciplined and you have
no outcome.
Choose, you know.
And sometimes I feel like thatthat is what God is saying Like
(48:51):
I've given you this gift andeither you can squander it and
be pissed off, or you can putthe same amount of work in and
have frustration but actuallyhave the outcome that I wanted
for you.
And again, it's tricky.
I suck at it all the time.
I don't always choose wisely,okay, but that's the whole bit
in Deuteronomy 30, right?
I've laid before you today lifeand death.
(49:12):
Now, choose life so that youmay live, and that's what God's
calling us to.
Awesome All right man.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Well, I'll do it Right on.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Okay, guys, I enjoyed talking to you about just the
commandments.
It's been fun walking throughthese and thinking through the
reality of it, but praying, youguys are blessed by this and
encouraged and pray that Godwould use.
What's up guys?
Welcome back to NavigateJustin's here, as always.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I am.
I am basically always here,basically.
You know, sometimes people fillin for me.
We hardly ever record withoutyou.
Who's the last person thatfilled in for me, Like Sergio?
I think AJ.
I don't know.
I think it was AJ.
You guys take a vote.
Who do we need to have back on?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
here instead of me.
We're going to find that person.
We'll get it sent.
I'm going to get emails likedon't ever have this guy on
again.
Yeah, he's terrible.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Listen.
Can I just take a moment andsay Donald Trump was elected
president and the inaugurationwas freaking amazing and I'm
pretty pumped.
I'm not generally overlypolitical, but I straight feel
like our entire country wasgoing into the crapper.
And this felt like an electionwhere I was like God didn't kill
us, all you know, like I'm notsaying everything is perfect,
(00:55):
but walking through I was likedude.
This is answered prayer.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Like we're not screwed.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Him immediately tearing down the abortion site
on the government site and stufflike.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
There's a lot of stuff I agree with Riding into
legislation those other stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
I was like Life begins at conception and some
different.
I'm just like, ok, it'shappening.
He wants to go to Mars.
Yeah, all right, let's go.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Sounds like a benefit .
Yeah, I'm in.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
I'm in.
I mean, I don't know what I'ddo up there, but something We'll
do something.
Anyways, answered prayer.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
It was huge.
I did see an interview withElon Musk once.
It's like how come?
Because he lives in like a tinyhouse on site at his SpaceX
place.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
And he was on Joe Rogan, I think, and he was like
how come you don't design yourown house?
Do you do this whole thing?
He's like I took that in my ownlife.
What am I doing with my life,dude, it's 100%.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Like that's the question.
I think about it all the timein my own life.
I am at every moment making adecision about what I actually
want to accomplish.
Yeah, and you are always inthis conversation with yourself
about, like, what do I actuallyvalue and want to do versus what
(02:11):
do I feel like I would ratherpunt on in the moment.
Yeah, you know, and guys likethat are like, nope, my whole
life is actually about this.
I'm that dedicated to it andit's like are we, do we take
that things that seriously inour own life?
And we should.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I would love to know how it feels to just know that
about yourself, just to be thatcertain about just who you are
you know, I mean, I don't evenknow if it's a certainty thing,
as much as a dedication to whatyou actually say.
Yeah, because he believes hecan get us to Mars.
Like, yeah, I don't believe Icould pay right next month.
You know what I mean, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I keep bringing up this quote.
What is it?
It's Lewis, when he says he'slike one day I hope you'll be
old enough to start believing infairy tales again.
You know, I mean and we've saidit on the podcast before but
it's like men don't get old,they stop dreaming before.
But it's like men don't get old, they stop dreaming.
(03:06):
And it's like I think somewherealong the way we can just lose
track and get so caught up inthe mundane that we stop
believing that God could doreally cool things through
nobodies.
But that's kind of the story ofthe whole Bible and I don't
know.
Man, it's funny Did you bringthis up?
Because I talked to my wifeabout it because she was like
you know, it was weird.
She's like I used to have allthese dreams and all these
(03:29):
things that I wanted to do andlike weird stuff, things that
didn't even totally make sense,and she was like you had none.
You're like I'm going to workhard and just try to stay alive
so I can provide for it.
And she's like now, when I talkto you, you got to these big,
grandiose dreams and she's likeI'm just trying to get laundry
done.
You know, it's been weird.
I just think there's differenttimes in life where the focus is
(03:50):
just in different places, um,but I do think it's really
important that we practice,let's say, faith, you know, like
, practice faith, like get getgood at expecting big things
from a really big God.
Yeah, and I like to think aboutit this way God will make sure
you get to the other side, buthe's asking you to row with the
(04:13):
oars, you know, and sometimes Ijust think we punt on it.
We stay in the lake, you know,and God's like I'll get you
there, but he's asking you torow and it's hard, do you think?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I was thinking about this the other day, actually,
like what you were just talkingabout.
Yeah, how your wife is like I'mjust worrying about laundry,
you got these grandiose things.
Yeah, that's just part of likesometimes in life.
We just get this momentum, yeah, like just this track of I'm
just going to do the best I can.
Here.
Somebody notices Now I'mpromoted, now I'm promoted and
I'm doing my best here.
I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Incremental Now.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
I'm promoted and like you're just getting these
momentums and you start gettingthese ideas and dreams and the
light punches you in the face.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
You need to go back down to the bottom row Sometimes
you know, I think, uh, I thinkthere is something to be said
about like, um, consistentlyworking at something.
I just think it has to besomething big enough that you're
actually interested in beinguncomfortable to bring it about.
You know, and I do think therehas to be some drops of, this
(05:13):
could happen, I can make thathappen, we could do that, you
know.
Well, how could you do that?
I don't know, but I'm going tostart working that direction, I
guess.
I think I'm always surprised athow much gets done, you know,
by consistently working atsomething in small increments.
You know, just over and over,and over and over again.
You ever been amazed at howproficient Tim you can become at
like a video game?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Oh, yeah, you know what I mean.
Well, I do it with my own job,right?
When I first did maintenancestuff, dude, I hated doing
toilets because I did not knowanything about them.
But then I took on every toiletI could possibly take on and
now I could do it with my eyesclosed.
I just became more proficientat it.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
It's not a big deal.
I can tell you the precisespeed at which that water spins
1.3 gallons per no.
My point in bringing it up was,like people do it all the time,
they just do it in weird areas.
Like people become proficientat securing their seat on Sunday
(06:09):
morning before everyone elsedoes.
I will get that seat.
That is my seat.
If somebody else tries to getit, I will get it first.
First, you know what I mean.
Like, like I said, I brought upvideo games.
A lot of people spend a ton oftime getting very proficient at
a video game.
Okay, you know I have anaffinity for Skyrim, right, I
love.
Like once and once a year I geton that game and it's a problem
(06:30):
and I just need to stop.
But it's a.
It's one of those things whereit's like man, you can become
proficient to something with theamount of hours you put in it.
Now, why don't we do that withthings that matter?
And I think it's because wedon't believe we can do it.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, or there's not that sense of gratification from
it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, I think the gratification comes from seeing
something happen, or like seeingprogress, but I think we just
want to see it faster or morelike I just think we talk
ourselves out of the reality ofit actually happening, which to
me is just faithlessness, that'strue, you know, like this would
never happen.
Right why even bother trying,yeah, making progress, but is it
(07:05):
really anything?
Does it really matter?
You know, and I just, I don'tknow, man, I think, when the
Bible talks about Satan comingto steal, kill and destroy,
right, he's a.
He prowls around like a roaringlion looking for someone to
devour and I just think, uh, Ithink oftentimes that means
dreams, ambitions, hopes, thingsthat you're actually trying to
(07:28):
accomplish, the hard work thatyou put into something.
I mean, how often do we throw,you know, I don't know if this
is it all the time, but like acold bucket of water on our
ideas of what could be greatbefore we even get there?
What Satan is not throwing acold bucket of water on is
you're, you're, you know, youleveling up whatever character
you're working on, or yougetting through that, that
(07:48):
obscure game that you'respending time with, or whatever,
like the things that don'tmatter.
There's, there's not a lot ofopposition towards the things
that do matter.
You find yourself talkingyourself out of all the time,
and I just think we shouldconsider as Christians maybe
it's not you talking yourselfout of it, maybe there is
something trying to talk you outof it.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yeah, but I think there's also the you know I want
to do.
If I have an hour spare time, Iwant to play a video game
because that's going to be fun,rather than build upon something
that may or may not happen.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Put in a lot of work and effort on something.
But I think it's that, I thinkit's that, I think it's that may
or may not happen thing.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
I'll tell you what, certainly won't happen is the
thing you decided not to dobecause you're playing video
games.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Life is short, justin you know life is short, enjoy
every hour.
You know, miss it entirely.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Video games help that time pass pretty quick.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's like.
It's like how about, instead ofliving the life that you have,
have that is short and fleetingand valuable, why don't you
spend it actually not doing lifeand make it shorter?
Yeah, you know, hmm, hmm, whatdo I think?
I'm guilty.
I'm guilty, so I'm not eventrying to take us down that
rabbit hole.
(08:57):
But, tim, what are we actuallytalking about today?
Speaker 1 (09:00):
What is our topic?
Speaker 2 (09:01):
The longest opening ever we got the commandment.
What?
Eight number eight today.
Okay, so we're talking aboutdon't be a kleptomaniac, don't
be, do not steal, don't bestealing, yeah, don't be.
Don't be thieving it seems likethe most obvious and easiest
one to follow oh man, you know,and maybe that's why it's a
(09:22):
tricky one is because it's soinsidious.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Like.
I saw some statistics.
I don't even know how accuratethis is.
I'd love to look it up now.
It was something like in theUnited States.
They projected that employeeshad stolen from their employers
something like $28 billion.
Wow, like some insane amount,and it wasn't just You're
(09:49):
talking about like paper clips.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Well, this is the thing.
This is what's funny.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Not just embezzling money, oh okay, but also like
stealing product amount of stuffthat people were taking home
that they're not supposed totake home.
How many people work somewhereand you got stuff from your job
that's at your house.
You know what I mean.
You don't give a second thoughtto it or you know random things
going on.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
My cupboard is full of the plates we used to serve
on when we did the kitchen days.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Oh, the old ones yeah yeah, yeah, that's good,
because I'm pretty sure thosewere getting thrown out, but the
reality is people take stuffthat they shouldn't.
And then you brought one upright Like time, yeah, okay.
So like time fraud is a bigdeal.
It's a big deal.
People do this thing wherethey're like okay, let's say
(10:38):
you're scheduled for eight hoursand you get your hour long
lunch break, and then theaverage person, I think, spends
something like two and a halfhours scrolling through like
media, social media Instagram,tiktok, whatever it is reels.
(10:58):
If you're a guy, it's probablyYouTube and clickbait, you know.
Probably YouTube and clickbait,you know.
And then the other portion thatpeople spend the majority of
their time on Tim, on theinternet instead of work, is
looking for other jobs.
Oh, that's funny.
That's funny.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
So it's like I'm doing a bad job here at this job
.
I'm currently robbing myemployer of the time and the
funds that they're pouring intomy account by doing this, and
I'm looking for another personthat will supply me and give me
more to do the same thing I'mdoing currently where I'm at.
That's funny.
So people do this, man, likewhen you think about yeah, like
(11:39):
time, like okay, like taxevasion is another one.
You know what I mean.
Where people are like I don'thave to pay taxes, I don't want
to do that, I would say insane.
Interest rates is another waythat people steal.
Our government steals fromfreaking everyone on an ongoing
basis.
Inflation is theft.
I mean, there's a ton of stuffthat you can get into.
(12:00):
Where people have just becomeit's become a normal thing to
manipulate people and take whatdoes not belong to you, whether
from someone or not, giving tosomeone.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
It sounded more of what's like stealing and more
like stop taking advantage ofpeople.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Well, ultimately, that's what it is is taking what
does not belong to you orwithholding from someone what
belongs to them.
Right, this goes back toGenesis.
This is property.
So we can talk about capitalismfor a minute if you want to,
but in the garden, if you'rewondering, like what is this
capitalist idea?
That is not a Christian idea,okay, right, but let me just
(12:40):
hang on.
So this idea that God puts Adamin the garden and he tells him
to work the ground and to eatthe produce of the ground, the
idea is that God gave Adam aplace, property, and he gave him
land to work and that he wouldeat the fruit of his own hands
(13:03):
because it would belong to him.
And that he would eat the fruitof his own hands because it
would belong to him.
The work that he put in, theproduct of that work belonged to
him.
It became his property.
So the whole Lockean idea oflife, liberty and property was
the original idea.
Pursuit of happiness is thisidea.
The idea was that happiness,this picture, was these that I
(13:24):
could have a reasonable living,I could work with my hands and
actually enjoy the fruit of mylabor.
These things God gives topeople, and we have a lot of
Christians out there that havelike these communist ideas that
are like nobody owns anythingand we all.
It's some utopian, weird andit's like that's actually not
biblical values.
(13:44):
Biblical values actuallyreinforce this idea that you get
to enjoy the fruit of yourlabor, the work of your hands,
the property that you have, andGod actually gives those things
to humans, to mankind, so thatthey would flourish.
There are verses inThessalonians that are like if a
man doesn't work, don't let himeat.
(14:04):
How would you say that in achurch?
Are you kidding me?
What a horrible thing.
But ironically I would saysomeone, tim, who is not working
and living off of other people,we would call that theft, right
producing.
If you're not helpingcontribute to society and you're
demanding society take care ofyou, what you're actually doing
(14:27):
is robbing.
You're stealing from thosepeople to benefit yourself.
It's a problem.
So this whole idea of you know,this capitalistic idea of life,
liberty and property andworking and getting the fruit of
your hands and people notgetting to take a giant chunk of
your own stuff because they'rejust less fortunate I'm using
(14:48):
air quotes here and we can talkthrough it.
It is, it's not a biblicalprinciple.
God says what you work for, theland that you have, the fruit
of your labor, that's yours andGod wants you to have that, and
it's a good thing.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
I was thinking of the verse in Ecclesiastes yeah, eat
, drink and be merry, so you canenjoy the fruits of your labor
at the end of the day.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
Yeah, well, that's the whole idea of pursuing
happiness is this.
I could actually make somethingof myself and I can go as far
as I want.
So if Elon Musk says I don'thave a giant house, that I've
designed and made all this stuff, why?
Because I want this.
Yeah, there's an economy oftime here.
What do you want to spend yourtime working on?
What do you want to do?
And you will be robbing fromthis to pay for this.
(15:27):
You know what I mean.
You are take, you are notinfinite.
Every decision you make is adecision not to do something
else.
Right, and so every, every nois a stronger yes, and every yes
is a stronger no, right.
So if you say yes to something,you are saying no to something
else, and if you say no tosomething, what you're saying is
(15:48):
something is more importantthan what that thing is.
And not frequently we don't.
We don't think about an economyof time in that sense.
But yeah, I think peoplehonestly, tim, I think people
steal all the time you grow up,you know when you're a kid
you're stealing music.
It's a normal thing to want tosteal.
You know the candy bar at thisplace when you're a kid.
I'll just take that with me.
(16:09):
But then it becomes weird lateron in your life when you can
take things that don't belong toyou and just assume it's okay
or it's not a big deal, orsomehow.
I think this is what people do,is they deserve.
I noticed I was playing thisboard game with them and um,
trying to trying to spend moretime just goofing off with them
(16:29):
talking, and one of it was likethere was a card where it said,
um, give to the give to the poorwas one option on this card
that you could like succeed atand do that.
Or it was steal from the richand my kids.
Every time we're picking steelfrom the rich and I was like it
reminded me of that quote.
Right, the middle class doesn'tlove the poor, they just hate
(16:51):
the rich.
Right, it's like you didn't.
It's not that you wanted tohelp the people that didn't have
anything, you just didn't wantthose suckers to have it.
Right, there's something in usthat wants to create our own
standard and say my will be doneinstead of God's will.
And if they have that, it mustmean that they were corrupt and
(17:12):
did something wrong.
And look, here's the deal.
We know that some people whoare rich, are corrupt, Okay.
So that doesn't help, but Iwould say the spectrum is both
directions All right.
So I would say there are veryrich people who are very wicked,
(17:32):
and I would say there are veryrich people who are also very
righteous, and I would say thereare very poor people who are
very wicked and there are verypoor people who are very
righteous.
And it's not a one for oneRight and it's not a one for one
you know, and I think we wantto always categorize people from
a Marxist mentality, which isthey have that because they were
(17:55):
in a place of power and they'vecontinued to withhold that from
other people.
I'm like that's Marxism, that'snot Moses, that's garbage,
that's not God.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I've seen that too with, just like with these LA
Fires All the celebrity homesgetting burnt down.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
It's like, ah, they could afford a new one, yeah,
just no mercy at all, even withCOVID, you know when all these
celebrities came out singingthese stupid songs and stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, we all got to come together, people, and like
yeah you're alone in yourmansion.
Ooh, freaking who.
You know what I mean Well it'sa weird deal.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Where we do, we tend to scorn or dislike people
because they are doing well, andI think that is a in general,
that is a very sinful thing.
What's funny is that incultures past let's say, old
America that was something thatwas valued.
You would look up to thatperson Wow, how did you do this?
(18:47):
I hope to one day be able to dowhat you did.
I hope to be able to build whatyou were able to build and and
hand this onto my own kids andwe would value those people and
say, man, it's amazing what theydid.
Now we see those people andthey're like you're just corrupt
.
Everyone is assumed to becorrupt, and I get it.
There's a lot of that going on.
There's a lot that is not thatway, and a lot of people worked
really hard for a lot of those.
(19:07):
There's a balance there ofunderstanding each situation is
different, but the big pointhere is no matter what, you are
not allowed to decide whetheryou get to steal from someone or
not.
You don't then get to say, well, because you're this, I deserve
that.
That is a wicked heart that istrying to create its own Ten
(19:29):
Commandments and live by thoseinstead of what God has actually
communicated.
And let's be honest, peoplesteal from God all the time, all
the time, all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
Take advantage of his grace.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Well, I would say, take advantage of his grace.
I would poke it tithe here aswell.
People, I don't understand it.
Okay.
So God says don't do somethingin the Bible.
You're like, yes, shouldn't dothat in the Bible, you can do
stuff like tithe.
And people are like, well, itdoesn't really mean that, that's
(20:03):
old testament.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
It doesn't have to mean that.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's ridiculous, whatever.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Like well, it's not really a thing, and it's like
you know one of a pastor that Ilove.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
He says this all the time.
He says the last thing to beconverted is somebody's
pocketbook.
You know it's like totallybelieve, love the Bible, love
the word Great.
Do you put your money whereyour mouth is when it comes to
(20:35):
that?
Well, not that we do this thing, tim.
This is.
I'm sorry I'm going down awormhole here, but I'm just
going to go and I get it, causethis is the one I hear all the
time.
Um, I tithe in time, or I tithein my gifts and service here, or
I tithe by uh, you know,whenever somebody needs my truck
or something, I'll use that.
Or I tithe instead of here.
I give to this place instead,or these three other places that
(20:56):
I really like what they do.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
Imagine Tim or I'm paying these three children from
across the world, nicaragua orsomething yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Imagine you are a drywaller.
All right, which isbackbreaking work.
By the way, epic uh respect Ifyou do that, especially the
sanding port.
I hate sanding so much.
If you're good at it, if you'regood at mudding, that makes the
standing a heck of a lot easier.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'm getting caught up here.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Okay, imagine you do a massive job.
You drywall, uh like a wholeyou know remodeling project in a
basement or something bigproject.
Get it all done, carry all thestuff, mud it all, sand it all,
get it all ready to go, and thensomebody tells you you bill
them and instead of paying you,they say I'm going to pay you in
my time.
Uh, what would you like me todo for you?
(21:42):
You know what I mean.
I'm not good at any of thisstuff or that stuff, but I can.
You know I can, uh, I can makeyou dinner a couple of nights a
week or something.
Like that's not going to work,pal.
I got to rent, I got to do this, I got to do that.
Like that doesn't make sense.
Or somebody's like here's whatI'm going to do.
I'm going to take what I wasgoing to pay you, uh, for the
services down here, and I'mgoing to give it to a bunch of
(22:05):
other people that I think aredoing really good stuff.
Also, I know you are the placeor the person that was doing
this for me, but ultimatelythere's just other places I
think I should give it to.
I just don't get it.
Like it's weird to me.
People are like yes, this istotally fine, we've decided that
(22:27):
we can come up with whatevereconomy we want in this area.
And like, when it comes to God,when it comes to the church,
when it comes to all this stuff,it cracks me up how often
people come up with reasons forwhy what God said and how we're
supposed to do things justdoesn't apply to them.
And I get to decide.
However, I want to followthrough on that.
I'm like yikes, do you get todo that with murder and adultery
too?
Or just you know, just this oneand this was the whole thing in
(22:51):
Malachi, you know.
God basically says hey, you'rerobbing me.
And they're like how are werobbing you?
They're like what you'rebringing to the temple?
Remember how I asked for, likeyou know, blemishless sheep, and
they were supposed to be puttogether.
He's like you know what you'redoing.
You're taking all the blemishedsheep, all the sick ones and
all the weird broken, jacked-upsheep, and you're like this is
(23:12):
fine, this is cool, right, god,totally cool.
And he's like not cool.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Have you read Cain and Abel?
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The picture that the Bible gives you is God gave you.
All of it belongs to God andGod gives you 90%.
100% belongs to him and hegives you 90% to honor and do a
good job with.
And he says give me the 10.
And we're like how about I payyou in mowing the lawn?
You know, that's not how thatworks.
(23:43):
It's tricky and we don't haveto go down the wormhole and
tithe the whole time.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Tithing is hard for me for a lot of different
reasons.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, I think maybe let's get into those because it
might be fine.
I don't want to wander awayfrom stealing, but I do think
there is a very real realitywhere we rob God and then we
blame people for why we robbedGod, and I don't think that
works.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
When you're talking about stealing and not tithing.
I think that hits me a littledifferent.
Okay, for sure, yeah, buttithing's hard, like I said,
when you're strugglingfinancially period.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
You know what I mean.
Yeah, and you have some guywho's better off than you
telling you give me more money,Not saying that, but that's how
it's kind of perceived.
You know what I?
Speaker 1 (24:28):
mean when you're kind of bitter towards stuff like
that, you fail to hear the goodthings that come out.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
But what I um it's, it's hard.
What I think um at least worthnoting in this particular topic
is that most people who are in aspot where they feel like it's
hard to tithe because of this orbecause of that never come out
of that spot.
They don't come out of it.
They don't like start makingmoney and then start giving.
They never come out of it.
(24:54):
They just continue in what theywere doing and continue with
the same reasons even when theydo have um.
Either you are giving becauseyou're trusting God with it, and
if it sucks, it sucks, uh andor it's going really well and
I'm able to tithe or give more,even, or whatever, because this
has become a normal part of mylife.
(25:15):
I just trust this to God andhe's going to have to do the
rest.
But most people who have thementality of I don't have enough
or this is going on, havealways been in that spot and
even when they're out of thatspot, they don't change their
mentality about it in the firstplace because ultimately it's
just a hard heart, this is ahard thing, I don't want to do
it and so I'm not going to umyou want me to tithe, then God
(25:36):
pay me more.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, yeah, and that's what that's.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
My point is that people then get it, but they
don't become more generousActually this was a study done
forever ago that poor are farmore generous than the rich,
which tells you something aboutwhy they got rich.
Potentially you know what Imean Like hey, if you're more
frugal or more careful with yourmoney, maybe you just do better
with it in general.
That's interesting.
I heard something else.
(25:59):
Well, percentage-wise they givemore right, like
percentage-wise, yeah, I'm sorry.
Percentage-wise the poor givemore.
Obviously, in overall numbers,the rich give more because they
can.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, no, I think what I'm.
What I heard was the rich stayrich because they act like
they're poor.
Poor stay poor because theyspend like they're rich.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah, there's there's some, there's some truth there,
I think.
Yeah, yeah, I think percentagewise, there's some interesting
stuff to look at.
But I say this to say when wethink about tithing, when we
think about church, you thinkabout giving to God, robbing God
.
The question is ultimatelyabout trust.
What are you actually trustingto take care of you when crap
(26:43):
hits the fan, when things do notgo right?
Is it ultimately that I'mtrusting my financial situation
to work out and I'm going to beable to make this happen?
I got it?
Or are you saying God's goingto have to end up in poverty and
(27:16):
not in a good place?
Eventually, if you're doing thewrong things, if you're robbing
God or you're robbing people,you'll continue to find yourself
poor.
That's the joke about drug money, right?
Is?
It just disappears.
What happened to it?
It vanished.
Now I got to do this evil thingagain.
I got to keep doing this tomake it work, and I think we
oftentimes get in a cycle oflike um, not being in a great
(27:38):
spot.
Now there's some guys like uh,uh, some financial advisors and
stuff who will say things likeokay, cool, if you got X amount
of debt, put this towards thisand then, once this is gone,
then you can start tithing inthis area and I'd say, okay, I'm
not like, I'm not trying tobeat somebody down who's in a
super bad spot.
So if you're like dude, I don'teven know how I would figure
(27:59):
this out or how this would work,I get that.
I'd say, meet with some peopleand at least start with figuring
out how you get in a good place.
But I would say, if you startmaking progress and you're not
putting God first in this area,you never will.
Either you make a consciousdecision to do that or you will
continue to come up with reasonsfor why what God has asked of
(28:19):
you is unacceptable and you'rejust unable to do it.
This is what a lot of people dowith their marriage.
It's what a lot of people dowith their habit of lying.
It's what a lot of people dowith their addiction.
Is my circumstance is differentthan other people's
circumstance, therefore I don'thave to, but we feel more
justified about that, I think,with money than anything else.
And I mean I have reasonspotentially for why, but I just
(28:44):
think it's a sin that we feelmore acceptable about because
you're viewed as a monster thesecond you bring it up.
You know what I mean.
Like how dare you right If Godtalks about it and you're a
pastor and you don't talk aboutit, you're probably being a
little bit unfaithful.
But ultimately, this idea oftheft man, it's rampant.
(29:06):
And I would say the government,like I said, steals from people
.
I would say people steal frompeople, employees steal from
employers.
Employers oftentimes willwithhold from employees.
People do stuff online all thetime where they'll sell
something that says it's thisand it's not.
You rip somebody off.
That's a type of theft.
(29:27):
There's all kinds of people whoare caught up in stuff like
this and whether it's small orwhether it's large, it's
actually rampant.
So when we read you shall notsteal, we tend to think that
we're not, and I think the Bibleputs this in here strategically
, because I think we arehardwired to steal apart from
the grace of God, and the firstperson that we tend to steal
(29:49):
from is God.
And then when we steal from God, then we feel also justified in
stealing from other people,because we put ourself in a
place where we feel like, well,my law is actually more
important than God's law,because I know better than he
does in this area.
And then we apply oftentimesthose same standards in our
inner workings with other people, which is again where the two
(30:09):
tables of the law.
You have to love God, and thenit shows you it.
It comes out in how you lovepeople.
But if you're not loving God inthis particular area, that's
also going to show up in how youtreat other people.
And I would just encouragepeople in their life and in
their thinking, man, takeinventory.
How cool are you with leavingearly when you're getting paid
(30:32):
by the hour?
How OK are you with takingstuff from work that you're not
really supposed to?
How cool are you withwithholding something from
somebody that you're notactually supposed to?
Are you robbing the Lord?
Are you robbing people?
And I would say, if you'redoing one, you're probably doing
both and maybe you just haven'ttotally thought about it.
(30:53):
But we have hearts that areconstantly desiring things that
do not belong to us, and theBible is saying you've got to
get ahead of that, and how youtreat the Lord ends up being how
you treat other people.
And so just this might be anepisode that people absolutely
hate.
Tim, I don't know, I didn't.
I guess I didn't think that wewere going to get into tithing
(31:14):
and then I was like oh yeah, butpeople rob God.
So here we, here we are.
Give me your thoughts on this,tim.
Give me your take.
What do you?
What do you think about whenyou think about this Don't steal
this.
You shall not steal.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
You know, like the first inclination is don't take
something that doesn't belong toyou.
Sure, all right.
But then let me ask you thenthat age old philosophical
question Would you still breadto feed your family?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Yeah, great question, great question.
I think what's interestingabout the Bible, especially in
Proverbs, is it says basically,don't punish a man who steals to
feed his family.
Oh really, which is weird.
Yeah, like now you're supposedto punish for stealing, like so
if somebody takes something andit does not in fact belong to
(32:02):
them, okay, there's a problem Ifsomebody is literally starving
to death and they take somethingto feed their family.
The Bible actually had it kindof written in there yeah, help
the guy out, right?
You know what I mean.
When people would like harvestfields, tim, they would
literally tell people hey, don'tgo back and clean up the extra
stuff that you didn't get toleave that for the poor, leave
(32:24):
it for them, which is like, well, isn, isn't that theft?
Not if god commands you to giveit to them.
Ironically, people would robgod and go ahead and go back
through and take it, and then itwouldn't, then they wouldn't
have anything for the poor andby robbing god they would be
robbing everyone else that was,uh, the verses that came to my
(32:46):
head.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Man was the John the Baptist sermon of God's coming.
He's going to chop out theroots.
Like what should we do?
It's like if you have twotunics, give the neighbor one
who doesn't have one.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, take care of them.
Take care of them.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Jesus talks about it too, and then James talks about
the same thing.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, there's a culture of hospitality.
Speaker 1 (33:02):
There's this culture there.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
yeah, it's, that was supposed to exist where people
are still going to take care ofeach other and like laws about
hey, you're not allowed to givesomebody this much if they're
not actually able to pay youback without endangering their
livelihood.
We've got creditors now thatare like, yeah, spend it right,
like it's dangerous.
What people do, let's say anungodly society, produces a
(33:29):
greater amount of poverty and agreater amount of wickedness,
because people are more okaywith stealing from people than
they should be.
And so if you're more okay withstealing from people, you also
become more, let's say,aggressive in areas where you
shouldn't.
When God is saying, no, you'resupposed to give to that.
You should take care of thepoor.
You should care about thesethings.
Now, does that mean I'm a fanof the poor doing a bunch of
wicked things and getting awaywith it?
(33:50):
No, what that means is, ifsomebody is legitimately hurting
, you as a Christian should tryto help that person, and if
they're in such a place where,literally, my family is going to
starve to death and you have itwithin your means to help them
out, you should help them out.
Does that mean the governmentshould obligate you to allow
people to steal from you?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
No, no, that's different, especially with, like
, money issues.
Yeah, I'll never ask people formoney.
It's necessary, but I alwaysfeel like if I'm asking for
money, it's because I didsomething wrong.
Yeah, therefore I need to atonefor this.
Yeah, not anybody else, right?
Speaker 2 (34:23):
Which is another way of saying again that I am the
sovereign in this area.
Yeah, and how dare anybody elsespeak into it or have anything
to do with it?
And it's like no, you got tolet God speak into every area of
your life.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
Well, that's the thing.
Sometimes that sucks, I'll fixit.
God, I'll fix it, don't worry,I'll get this right, I'll do it
your way.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
After I do it my way to fix it, so I can do it your
way.
Does that work in any otherarea of life for you?
No, and look, I got to tell you, Tim, I am not a wizard when it
comes to finances.
I am not that guy.
I'm far from it.
Okay, Made lots of mistakes.
Me and Tiff accrued gosh like abunch of debt.
(35:06):
Early on I think I proposedthat I was making like $10 an
hour.
You know what I mean.
Sometimes we just, we were just, things just did not work out.
We never had a lot.
Frequently we've had in ourhouse not recently, but
frequently we've had barecupboards trying to make it work
, trying to figure out how isthis going to happen, how are we
(35:27):
going to pay for that?
Holes in socks, need and stuff.
I mean, dude, five kids, oneincome, pastor salary.
It is not always been great andwe haven't always done
everything right, but I can saywith a clean conscience we've
never robbed God and he's takencare of us.
And I'm not saying everything'salways been comfortable, dude.
Sometimes it's been hard andI've given away stuff that I
(35:49):
shouldn't have and like, oh, ifI would have done that again,
that guy didn't you know?
Whatever, whatever.
But I think it's important thatand some of this I got to
credit my dad for because he wascrazy about this, but he taught
us from a very young age.
You got to do this and if itjust becomes a norm for you, you
get rid of it.
You just give it to God Beforeyou stare at it too long.
Speaker 1 (36:11):
You get tempted to do something stupid.
That's very true.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
And that doesn't mean , oh, I'm always going to have
enough and everything's going togo perfect.
It means it will always haveenough, that God will take care
of you.
It doesn't mean every bill willbe paid on time and this and
that you do the best that youcan to God and honor him and
(36:34):
start there and work throughwhat the difficulties are that I
need to handle, then rob Godand then try to make it on my
own without his blessing.
In that area.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
That's the other thing with tithing.
For me, man was always I'mdoing this because I have to,
but not because my heart tellsme I should.
I'm okay with that, like I'mdoing this, so God will bless me
.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
No, no, no Like, let me Because that's how it's
preached a lot.
Let me help with this, becausethat pisses me off too.
Okay, imagine somebody was likeTim you don't murder people
because you have to, you murder.
You don't murder people becauseyou get to.
Right, okay, right, look, I getit.
And I've said this the heartposture should be a get to, not
(37:20):
a have to.
I don't want to do checklistmentality.
However, not everything in lifeis just daisies and roses and
freaking fun and perfect.
Hard things require sacrificebecause they are in fact, better
, and you're not going to makeit to Mars if you're working on
a bougie house.
Right Again, it's the sameprinciple coming back up, and I
would say, with everything thatwe're talking about.
Sometimes people are like well,if my heart isn't right yet,
(37:41):
then it's okay to beat my wife,because I'd rather not beat my
wife for the right reason thanthe wrong one.
You know what a stupid thing tosay no, like do the right thing
, even when you don't feel likeit, because that's actually
that's worship.
It's not what.
It was awesome and everythingwas best case scenario, but I
(38:03):
gave something of value.
I brought that verse up from 2Samuel.
I bring it up all the time 24,24.
I won't give to the Lordsomething that costs me nothing,
and sometimes people want tofeel like I'll only give to the
Lord when it doesn't feel likeit costs me anything, because
that's when I feel best about it.
God doesn't care about yourfeelings as much as he cares
(38:23):
about your honest heart desireto do the right thing, even when
it's difficult.
And sometimes I think we mixthose up, like if it's really
difficult and I don't feel greatabout obeying God here, then
that must be wrong.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
I must be a hypocrite .
And he's saying no, what that?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
is is worship Cause.
What you're saying is dang it,I don't want to do this, but I'm
going to because I love God andI love doing what he says, more
than I love this easy way outin this particular circumstance.
That that is what it's supposedto look like.
You think the disciples arelike you know what I love?
Being homeless, walking around,I just get to do this, isn't
(39:01):
this great?
I get to do it all the time,you know, like they're getting
into arguments and pissing eachother off, and it wasn't always
great.
Look, it's just.
It really.
I just I would like to remindeverybody that doing things when
you don't necessarily feelabout it again I've said it
before is not hypocrisy, it'scharacter, and what it means is
there is something deeper in methat wants to do the right thing
(39:21):
than the easy way out.
That seems acceptable right now, and if you're saying, I'll do
it when my heart's in a betterplace, what I'm hearing you say
is I actually have a deeperallegiance to something else
other than what I know to beright, and so I'm going to punt
on what's right in the name ofwhat I think is better, and
that's self-worship.
(39:42):
That's something else entirelyand I'm guilty of that, so I
wouldn't want people to hear mesay this like well, I guess
Justin just always does theright thing all the time.
No, I get it growing that I'mworking at it.
But I would not want to confusepeople.
When people say, like it'srelationship, not religion,
sometimes it makes me angrybecause there's a sense in which
(40:04):
a hundred percent yeah, yeah,it's a relationship with God.
But what you mean byrelationship, not religion is
you're only doing it right Ifyour heart is 110% in it, then
you're going to fail yourmarriage, you're going to fail
your kids, you're going to quityour job, you're going to quit
doing hard things because yourheart is never going to be 100%
(40:26):
into the right thing that you'resupposed to do.
Because this is a fallen worldand you are a broken person.
There's a sense in which yoursoul, your spirit, your
allegiance has to be tosomething greater than you, or
you are always going to fall tothe level of your emotions in
any given minute.
You know any given circumstance.
(40:48):
So when we think about the 10commandments in general, we
think about not stealing.
Sin is always trying to get youto settle for second best.
Second best is the video gameyou could be playing instead of
the book you could be writing,right, right.
And you have to make aconscious decision in the moment
not to rob God, not to robothers.
(41:11):
But ultimately, what we'retalking about right now is not
robbing yourself, because if Godis calling you to something,
he's put a call on your life,he's put something in your heart
.
He's saying if you give yourallegiance to me first and you
learn discipline here, then whenI'm actually calling you to do
something that will benefit youand get you where you need to go
(41:31):
, then you will not rob yourselfof the destiny that I've called
you to as well.
But if you're willing to rob me, then you're going to be
willing to rob others andultimately you're going to rob
yourself because you lackdiscipline in all the areas, and
what allows you to see that thebills paid and the things taken
care of is not just your,ultimately, your tenacity in
(41:54):
something, but your allegianceto God's way of doing things.
That then shows up in theseother areas.
People say it this way God'snot into your money, or God's
not trying to get your money.
He's trying to get your moneyfrom having you right.
Which is another way of sayingdon't be a slave to those things
.
Continue to do what God hascalled you to do.
And I would just I would say toa lot of people you're robbing
(42:16):
yourself when you're robbing God, because ultimately, you're
punting on what he's called youto do and something greater, in
the name of what you think makesmore sense in the moment, and
that is what is killing all ofus, ladies and gentlemen, that's
true.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
So just a good reminder.
Hard sacrifice Reminds me ofthe show I watched or read I
don't remember what it was.
You know the story of themonkey paw.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
No, I'm about to learn Everyone lean in.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
I'm probably going to butcher this, but I've heard
this a long time ago.
You're going to monkey it up.
Some gypsy sells this monkeypaw to these two mom and dad who
just lost their son.
Okay, and they said this monkeyPaul grants wishes.
It's like, well, we wish forour son to come back.
Well, it turns into a horrormovie because the son comes back
, but it's not the son that died.
You know what?
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I mean Okay.
It's like a monster show it'slike a zombie or something he's
banging on the doors, trying toget in to kill his family.
Some kind of Frankensteinmonster.
Speaker 1 (43:08):
It's a moral story of care for what you wish for.
It's never going to work outthe way you think it is, but
when you think of sacrifice andhard men and those other objects
in this house too, where it'slike a typewriter that can write
horror stories but the peopledie in real life- oh geez,
there's always like somestipulation, there's a catch.
Yeah, and I'm constantlythinking of that because I'm
(43:30):
like I'd do that.
If I'm constantly thinking ofthat because I'm like I'd do
that, if I'm being realistic,maybe not the kill people one,
but there's you just want thiseasy Not on the air while we're
talking about it out loud.
If somebody were to come to youlike hey, I will give you this.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
But it's going to cost this.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
You know what I mean.
It's an interesting thought forme.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
You know, can I tell you why I think it's tantalizing
?
Because, it doesn't requirefaith.
Yeah, If I just know what it'sgoing to cost, then I do it.
No, you wouldn't.
No, you wouldn't I just.
I just think it's our desire tobe in control.
This is why a lot of peoplefall into witchcraft, man Cause
so many people are like, if Iknow the cost, then I can
maintain control.
(44:15):
And it puts me in this positionwhere I can leverage this to
get what I want.
And it's like there's it's theopposite of faithlessness.
Yeah, or it's the opposite offaith.
It's this faithlessness that'scontinuing to put itself on
display, and I just think it'smore like God saying trust me,
I'll balance the scales, I'llwork it out.
(44:37):
You don't take from otherpeople, don't take from them,
don't withhold from them, and indoing that, I will continue to
give to you and you will be ableto not take from the story that
I'm writing for you, and it'llbe a whole different story.
If you would live that kind ofway and I just think we should
we would do well, as Christians,to embrace the story God has
(44:59):
for us, live under theconstraints that he's given to
us, whether we want to or not,in certain circumstances, and
allow God to write the storythat you were meant to live.
Speaker 1 (45:09):
Let me ask you this real quick yeah, I'm going to
end with this, but when you'retalking about, like, the desires
of your heart, that you knowyou can play video games or you
could write a book right, orwhatever feel in the blink, do
you think there's moments inyour life, though, that you can
look back on and be like, ohyeah, that actually kind of
makes sense for me, like peoplehave said that about throughout
the years, so I must try tothink of a way to, like,
(45:33):
motivate you to do the thingthat God has placed in you to do
.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
Like identifying what I should be doing.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
That, as we go through life like people have
called out in us that you didn'tbelieve at the time or still
don't.
Yeah, sometimes, yeah, I think,um not to say things would be
easy with the things that Godwants you to do, but to say, oh,
not to say things would be easywith the things that God wants
you to do, but to say, oh, youknow what this actually makes
sense, and if you tell someonehe's like that makes sense for
you.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
I'm just weird enough to believe that you can punt on
things that you should havedone.
I do.
I think there are some peoplewho are given a calling or a
unique ability or something thatthey should be able to do and
(46:16):
then don't do it before God andthen end up losing all of it.
Like Saul, to me, is one ofthese people.
God gives him the nation, hescrews up a bunch of stuff and
then gets it taken away from him, and you can say God took that
away from him, or you can say hetook it away from himself.
Right, and I think oftentimesin our life although I believe
in God's sovereign decree and wecould get into all that stuff
what I would like to zoom in onis the reality that the
(46:39):
decisions that we make do infact have consequences, and
either you can live a life,let's say, that is intentionally
more adventurous, full of faith, a little bit crazier, and may
or may not go the way that youthink it will, but it will be
awesome, or you can short upyour bets, you can play it safe.
You can never leave thecul-de-sac and you can blame God
(47:01):
for not being cool and say allthe stuff that people said about
me and the cool things thatcould have happened.
They were just saying, theywere just words.
It didn't mean anything.
They were wrong, they were nice.
And uh, and both of those peoplewill be right, right.
You know, what if it'ssomething that didn't like?
(47:21):
There's no indication at all inyour life that this is what
you're supposed to do, but yetthere's something in you that
says?
you have to do it.
I think the person who saysthere was no signs about who I
was or what I was supposed to dois lying.
Really.
I mean, I think this.
I don't really like this asmuch.
This is fun.
This comes naturally.
This does not come naturally.
Everyone is always analyzingsome level of the work that
(47:44):
they're doing and who they are.
This is why everybody is soobsessed with Enneagram and
Myers-Briggs and all thesedifferent personality tests.
Everybody's like trying toanalyze who am.
I you know?
Um, I think it's natural to us.
The question is not who are you, Although that is incredibly
important, but it's what are yougoing to do about it?
Um, and a lot of people want tofudge the rules and, uh, they
(48:07):
want to do things their own way.
Yeah, exactly.
And what they find is they getFrankenstein's monster instead
of the thing that they werehoping to actually get, because
you, uh, you know there's nofree lunch.
You know what I mean.
It's either you do it the rightway Uh, what's what's the word?
It was um either you, um,either it's really hard now or
(48:30):
it's really hard later.
And it's like the point waseither you're disciplined now
and have to put in a lot of hardwork and you have a good
outcome, or you're undisciplinedand you have equal amount of
hard work.
That comes along with justbeing undisciplined and you have
no outcome.
Choose, you know.
And sometimes I feel like thatthat is what God is saying Like
(48:51):
I've given you this gift andeither you can squander it and
be pissed off, or you can putthe same amount of work in and
have frustration but actuallyhave the outcome that I wanted
for you.
And again, it's tricky.
I suck at it all the time.
I don't always choose wisely,okay, but that's the whole bit
in Deuteronomy 30, right?
I've laid before you today lifeand death.
(49:12):
Now, choose life so that youmay live, and that's what God's
calling us to.
Awesome All right man.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
Well, I'll do it Right on.
Speaker 2 (49:18):
Okay, guys, I enjoyed talking to you about just the
commandments.
It's been fun walking throughthese and thinking through the
reality of it, but praying, youguys are blessed by this and
encouraged and pray that Godwould use.
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