July 17, 2025 • 45 mins
What happens when you feel God calling you to something new? In this pivotal episode, host Justin reveals his plans to plant King's Banner Church in Tyler, Texas, bringing along a vision to revitalize faith in what he describes as "the buckle of the Bible belt." The announcement comes alongside news of his forthcoming book "Burn," described as a "field manual for catching spiritual fire."
Drawing from Matthew 9:36-38, Justin unpacks a powerful ministry principle: when we take spiritual responsibility through prayer, God begins giving us spiritual authority to act. This principle has guided his journey from small living room gatherings to now launching a church with 30-35 people. The conversation explores how we often pray for change but fail to recognize we might be the very answer to those prayers.
The hosts dive deep into what they call "event Christianity" – the phenomenon of Sunday services that look impressive but don't transform lives beyond the weekend. Justin challenges listeners to consider whether they've chosen "looking faithful" over actually exercising faith, noting how comfort has become the enemy of calling for many believers.
Perhaps most provocatively, Justin suggests that while many churches focus exclusively on reaching the lost, there's an urgent need to disciple those already in the pews: "If you want to reach the lost, start with raising up the found." He shares alarming statistics about declining church attendance in the Bible Belt, painting a picture of communities that know just enough about Jesus to miss knowing Him personally.
As Justin prepares for this transition, longtime podcast listeners can rest assured that Navigate will continue with co-host Tim and new team member Casey. The episode concludes with an invitation to follow the journey of King's Banner Church and support this mission to awaken what Justin calls "the sleeping giant of lethargic Christianity." For those feeling that nudge toward their own next step of faith, this conversation offers both challenge and encouragement to move beyond comfort into purpose.
Check out Kingsbanner.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
guys, welcome back to navigate justin.
What is up, bro?
How are you buddy?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I am, uh, somewhere between a unicorn and um a couch
potato.
You know, somewhere in that,somewhere in that zone mystical,
but still a little bitdisoriented okay that's the
potato part.
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, to methat's how that works out, so
(00:29):
you asked we yeah, you're right,I should have learned.
I mean, I can give youdifferent categories.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I've got uh we got casey with us too.
Hey guys, how's it going?
Casey's with us.
Um, last episode we did withthe generational curses, sins
one.
Yep, we mentioned some.
Um, do you want to just jump inreal quick on that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, happy to.
So, um, I am going to beplanting a church uh, actually
out in Texas in the next coupleof months.
Me and my family are moving outthere with a group of about 30
or 35 people that are wanting tocome and get stuff off the
ground.
We're pretty pumped about it.
It's going to be called King'sBanner.
(01:08):
King's Banner, so if you guyswant to check it out,
kingsbannerorg.
We've got a website going, gota bunch of stuff set up and I've
just been running aroundtalking with people like a
madman and networking and makingtrips out to Texas and looking
at all the opportunity andpotential for what God wants to
do down there.
So, pretty pumped about it.
(01:29):
And if you like the podcast,you like the content that we put
out, I'd love for you guys tostay tuned for the stuff that's
going on there.
Yeah, and then, on top of that,I'm going to have a book
published, I think in December.
Wow, which should be super fun.
Which one?
I wrote four books at thebeginning of this year Tim.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh, is that all.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Technically six.
Two of them are textbooks.
Now, one of them was based offof a podcast series we did.
Yeah, is that the one?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
we'll have a.
The podcast series was basedoff of a sermon series that I
did, yes, called 10 Rules forLife, because you don't need 12
rules, you need 10.
Which?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
is what we did, I know On the Ten Commandments, so
we walked through those.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But we'll have a yeah , it's not in the publishing
process, but the manuscript isdone Awesome, and we'll be.
Yeah, we'll hopefully have abook called 10 Rules for Life
here in the, you know, in thecoming future as well, which
will be fun.
That's awesome, be fun.
But this, this, uh, this bookcoming out is going to be called
burn.
Um, it's all about, and tim.
(02:28):
I think I talked to you about itbefore, but it was like the
book that god put on my heartlike four or five years ago.
Um and uh, beginning of thisyear, I just sat down I was like
I'm gonna start actuallywriting down the things that
I've been working on and andcodifying it.
You know, getting it all puttogether and it's's been, it's
been cool.
I got a book on Malachi I did.
I got a book on second Petercalled the Genesis cycle.
(02:50):
Um, burn, and then the 10commandments, and I'm also
working on another manuscriptright now, uh, for a book on
marriage that I'm trying tocoauthor with my wife.
It should be fun.
That's interesting, like I knowanything about marriage, it'll
look.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, what do you know about marriage?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't know, buy the book, tell you, tell you all
about it.
But it's been a lot of fun, man, it's been.
I feel like I've been doingministry for basically the last
10 years and a lot of what's inthese books is just a
culmination of stuff that Godhas been putting on my heart,
stuff that's blessed otherpeople, and putting it in a
(03:24):
package form where I can hand itto somebody.
This book Burn will be funbecause it's kind of a field
manual for catching fire.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That's the goal is you read these chapters?
Spiritual fire, of course, yeah, exactly Literally.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Here's how to do jihad.
Yeah, don't do that, you'restarting a church.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You've got to watch what you say now.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You know you're starting a church.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You gotta watch what you say now, you know I was
thinking about that.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
You kind of buried the lead.
I'm starting a church alsobooks.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't, even so I've been.
I've just here's what's beengoing on my life, guys, for the
last six months.
I feel like god is taking allthe things that have been going
on inside of me for the last 10years and it's just amplified
them.
Um, I've been doing ministry,I've been doing counseling, I've
been training pastors, I'vebeen teaching and preaching and
(04:09):
strategy and all the things thatgo into that, and it's like in
the last six months, all of it'sbeen turned up to a 10.
And so I am doing everythingthat I can right now to just
follow Jesus into what I feellike he's doing.
And it very much feels likethis is stuff that God is doing,
not stuff that I was intendingto do on my own.
(04:33):
It's just kind of erupting,which is cool but also
absolutely crazy at the sametime.
But I am super pumped aboutKing's Banner, super pumped
about the church that we'regoing to be kicking off.
I'm really excited.
I've had a couple ofopportunities with other
churches and I've always, like,turned them down.
I'm not interested.
I'm for the mission, I'm forthe fight.
But the idea of going out andstarting something new with a
(04:55):
group of people where we'regoing to be able to plant
something generational.
You know what I mean that whenI breathe out it will continue
on after I'm gone.
I'm just, I'm so excited aboutthat, so really pumped.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You kind of said something there that you know,
talking about your life and likeit's been super crazy and
everything, and I think the wordthat came to me is you never
understand the fear of God untilyou give him complete control
over your life Hate that yeah,it's more like trust in God is
(05:28):
terrifying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, part of the reason Casey's here.
You're going with him.
I am indeed.
Casey has been part of the samechurch we all worked for for
many years now.
What five for you.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Three and a half.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Is that all?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, just before you started, same as me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay, interesting.
I was like 1,280 days for youeschatology nerds out there Just
kidding.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Casey's been on the episode once before, I think Yep
, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
April of 23.
Wow, I went back and listenedto it just so that I would not
screw myself up.
I've already found four ways.
I've messed up already, sowe'll pray for you.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Thanks.
We wanted to introduce you allto Casey because I am not going
to Tyler Texas, as disappointingthat may sound for myself, but
he is in spirit, guys, caseywill.
The plan is is to continue todo this podcast remotely as best
we can, but they're alsowanting to expand this thing way
more than what I've been ableto do.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
We're really here with with it, so well, I think
the goal is um to do twice amonth.
We'll continue to do what we'redoing right now, which will be
primarily audio and recordingstuff, and it'll be fun, and
then, twice a month, we're goingto try to do some video stuff
like we've been talking aboutfor the last wanting to do two
years.
We've tried video.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It's a lot of work, yeah, so pretty pretty pumped
about yeah casey will be kind ofspearheading it down there in
texas, from what I understand,right that's the goal?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think so, and we have a.
We finally have a behind thescenes guy.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
We do we have a quick shout out to what I was just
saying before we startedrecording was I can't wait to
just record my voice and justnot have to deal with it anymore
.
No editing, no uploads, nocorrupted files, no, nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
If you guys don't know this, Tim happening to
listen to my voice over and overagain in the editing process
has caused him substantialneurological problems.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's just it's aged him at least 40 years.
Yeah, we're, we're praying forhim, and this is also a
disclaimer to anybody who's beenlistening to the podcast.
Eventually, I will wear youdown, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Okay, that's very true, no, try listening at two
times speed.
That's a trip.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I feel like it's doable.
I feel like gosh, do I talkthat slow?
It drives me crazy.
But I've heard other peoplelike I wish you would just slow
down.
You know, and you're talking.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm like I don't have it in me.
I don't have it in me.
Yeah, it's been a lot.
It's been cool because westarted this five years ago.
Dang 2020 was our first episode, right in the middle of Rona
Five years ago.
That kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Thousands of downloads later, we were trying
to spread at the rate of thecoronavirus, but the government
wouldn't help us.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It made it difficult.
What spreads faster than thecommon cold?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Apparently not Navigate Podcast, which was the
upper room.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
The journey we've gone on.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's been nostalgic man Bread and wine logo and all
that.
It was upper room.
Yeah, the journey we've gone on.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It's been nostalgic man the old bread and wine logo
and all that.
It was a free picture I got.
I wouldn't get sued for it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That's the important thing we kept the guitar rift.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
We did, oh, we did.
Thank you, jeremy Strandford.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, he's got a little.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I don't even know what you're calling that.
A little jangle, that's what Iwas thinking.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But real shout out to all of our subscribers too.
You guys have helped this thingmaintain for five years.
This thing does cost money, sowith your help it's been super
generous, super helpful.
So we hope to count on thatgoing forward If not all good,
honestly, but we're lookingforward to what King's Banner
Church does with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, we're really hoping to take everything that
we've been doing and notdownplay it, but really amplify
it.
And Tim, I got to tell you,dude, it's been freaking
fantastic and I don't thinkwe're going to be slowing down
really.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I think it's just going to be more like taking it
and rolling with it.
We're going to have coming backmaybe a month.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We'll see, but we'll be back at it, yeah, yeah the
moving process will certainly beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, buckle up, yeah but with that out of the way, I
don't know if there's anythingelse we need to talk about, but
I do believe you kind of wantedto talk about something.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, about kind of your vision and why so I I think
I just wanted to share a littlebit about what.
There's a text that God haskind of placed on my heart as
I've been processing and workingthrough stuff and trying to
follow God and to where you knowhe's been calling me and my
family and a bunch of otherfamilies at this point, and it's
(09:59):
actually in Matthew chapternine.
So I wanted to go there quicklyand it's just the end of
Matthew chapter nine, but it'sit's kind of a powerful text and
starting in verse 36, it saysthis Jesus, seeing the people,
he felt compassion for thembecause they were distressed and
dispirited, like a sheepwithout a shepherd.
Then he said to his disciplesthe harvest is plentiful but the
(10:21):
workers are few.
Therefore, beseech the Lord ofthe harvest to send out workers
into his harvest.
And Jesus summoned his 12disciples, gave them authority
over unclean spirits to castthem out and to heal every kind
of disease and every kind ofsickness.
And then he names who thedisciples are in this passage.
But it's cool watching thisprogress.
(10:44):
Like Tim, I don't know, I meanyou've been with me from like
the beginning, man, yeah, but itseems like my ministry kind of
started in the living rooms, youknow, with like two or three
people, and then we'd get to apoint where we were like pulling
furniture out and trying to fiteverybody in.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It was the best because we'd be up till like two
in the morning just singingworship.
You know people trying to speakin tongues that shouldn't be
trying to speak in tongues andlike all kinds of weird.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know let me say something that it started that
way and then years later itturned into hey sam, I have to
go do this.
Can you cover for me seriously,like back in the kitchen days?
I'm like sure, just go, go praywith these people.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I know we're in the middle of a rush, but I I got to
pray for this guy's leg to gethealed.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I know you have to feed 300 people, but I'm leaving
.
You're on your own pal.
I'm going to go tell peopleabout Jesus.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, Tim's been supporting my ministry from the
very beginning in a myriad ofways, which seems to be the case
with anybody that gets close tome long enough.
Hey, I need your help now.
Cool things are happening.
Yeah, it's been wild.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Casey, I tell you that for your benefit.
Oh, I've seen it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I am not that new to this, Tim.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I definitely experienced it already.
Tim always gets mad becauseback in the kitchens I would
make people, I would teachpeople how to do things, and
then the second I would teachpeople how to do things, then I
would ask them to do the thingthat I taught them how to do and
they're like well, I wanted theskill, but I didn't know I was
going to have to use it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Don't have to work for it.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
One time Tim was really interested in how to make
like lemon roses, and we hadthis thing.
I was like I'm going to showyou how to do it, but then I'm
going to make you use it, and itwas like garnishing stuff.
And then the next week we hadthis whole seafood buffet that
we were putting together.
I was like Tim, I need 120.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It wasn't like one or two at a time, it was like I
need 100 by tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, what it was wild.
It was wild.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I've never made one since Trial by fire.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, a trial by lemon.
It was a real lemon.
Yeah, all right.
But this, this text, just tojust to take you there and I'll
connect it to what I was justsaying Jesus, in verse 36, it
says he sees the people, andthis word is is idon.
It's not blepo, which is theword that means like to, to
deeply look at something, to seethrough something.
(12:58):
Idon is more like reading themoment, seeing what's actually
happening, what the situation is.
He's reading what's actuallygoing on, and then it says that
Jesus felt compassion for thembecause they were distressed and
dispirited, like a sheepwithout a shepherd.
These words, distressed anddispirited, literally mean like
cast down, thrown out.
(13:19):
If you can imagine somebodywho's like lost a fight, you
know what I mean.
Like I've been, I'm losing, I'mdown on the ground.
That's the picture.
And he says and they're likesheep, sheep without a shepherd.
And then he says to hisdisciples the harvest is
plentiful, but the workers arefew, and he tells them to
beseech the Lord of the harvest.
Or I want you to pray.
I want you to pray that Godwould send out workers into the
(13:40):
harvest to get this thing done.
All right.
And so, like the, the clearprogression that I see here, tim
is Jesus is seeing that thereis a there's a legitimate need,
there's pain here, there's hurthere, and then he feels
compassion for them.
And I think, as Christians,we're supposed to have our eyes
open so that we can see whatJesus would see Like we.
(14:02):
We pray this prayer all thetime.
Lord, give me your eyes, youknow what I mean, so I can see
what it is that you want me tosee, so I can pay attention.
And I feel like God, readingthrough scripture, has very real
opinions and emotions and even,I would even say, pain in his
heart for some of the thingsthat are going on in our world.
And oftentimes we're dull,we're pretty myopic.
(14:24):
We stay right in what we'relooking at and what we're seeing
.
And I think if we pray moreoften, god, show me what it is
that you're doing, show me whatit is that you see.
And I believe that God showspeople his heart when they're
actually willing to follow himinto what he's calling them to
do.
And too often people are askingGod, god, I want to know your
(14:46):
heart, I want to know you moreWell, if you do that, I want you
to know it's going to take youdown a roller coaster, if you
actually want to know God.
You don't know him in just theknowledge.
You actually know him in theexperience.
I've experienced the Lord.
I've walked with God in whathe's doing, and so he's seeing
the people and feels compassionfor them.
And this word is funny, it'sthe word splunkna Tim.
(15:09):
Say splunkna, splunkna,splunkna.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Splunkna, Splunkna.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's one of you know it's a derivative of it,
splunkna the doomslayer.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
The house of splunkna yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It literally means your guts.
Guts like your guts, likeliterally.
This word means to feel it inyour guts that, oh my gosh, like
there's a need like this is.
You guys have felt that before.
The word I I like to use forjust conviction actually felt
something in the, in the personof who I am, and it's, it's
changing the way that I viewsomething.
It's it's not just somethingthat I'm looking at, it's
(15:43):
something that I feel gripped by.
And then he sees them.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Wouldn't that be like an epiphany too?
Isn't that the same thing?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You could see it as an epiphany.
I think it's more just likepaying attention.
Yeah, because, look, tim, ifyou watch the news, you'll feel
exhausted by the end of it.
Right, because you're seeingall the different things that
are going on and you only havethe capacity to actually do
something about a little littlebit of it, right?
And I feel like the more westare at massive, large problems
(16:13):
that are going on globally, theless energy we have for actual
things that we could dosomething about happening
locally.
You know, and most of us areinundated with so many things
that are going wrong, that aregoing wrong that are happening
on this massive level, that weall feel hopeless to do anything
about it, and it actually makesus exhausted and not look for
(16:33):
opportunities that are withinour ability to do something
about.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I would just jump in as far as an epiphany.
I would say the differencebetween an epiphany and Splunkno
would be something like anepiphany is oh and splunk knows
oh that's.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's a good.
It's a good distinction, yeah,one at least.
This clearly communicates thatgotta sing, that there's
something going on.
There's a deep gut feeling thatgoes with it, and this gut
feeling was him seeing peoplewho were looking like they were
losing a fight.
I don't know if you've seensomebody losing a fight before,
but there is something inside ofyou that's like, ah, we got to
(17:10):
help this guy, we got to get inthere, we got to do something
about it.
And then he tells the disciplesto do what, to pray for it
already.
Pray right.
Beseech the Lord of the harvestto send out workers, because
apparently the harvest isplentiful.
Like there's a lot of work thatcould be done, but the amount
of people that want to dosomething about it is very few.
(17:31):
If you don't want to do thatwork.
Yeah, yeah, jesus, I'll followyou as long as I don't have to
leave my neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I love the idea of doing something about it in a
way that makes me feel morecomfortable, not less
comfortable.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
As you've said before Jesus, I'll do anything for you
.
Great Will you wash dishes,yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Uh, you know, my wife will wash the dishes.
You know what I mean.
But not, yeah, it's, it's a lotlike that.
It's a lot like that.
And he says, um, he tells thembasically to pray.
Therefore, beseech the Lord ofthe harvest to send out workers
into the harvest.
And the reality is, is God istelling them in this moment, I
want you to pray?
And I would say they probablydid If Jesus, in the moment,
(18:09):
told them to pray.
They probably stopped andprayed.
You would at least think that.
And then who does he send?
Who are the workers that hesends?
The disciples, the people thatprayed.
Yeah, the people that prayed.
So I brought this up on thepodcast before.
But there is a principle ofministry For all you maybe
(18:30):
younger guys out there, some ofyou wondering how do I have a
greater impact on the stuff thatI'm doing?
It's really simple, but it'snot easy.
The second you begin to takespiritual responsibility for
something, god will begin togive you spiritual authority.
Okay, the second you takespiritual responsibility for
something, god will also bringother people around you and give
(18:51):
you all spiritual authority.
So the second they startpraying, you start taking
responsibility for it.
And then who gets sent out, thepeople that prayed.
And our tendency in prayer isto think I prayed, I'm done.
But actually what we see inScripture is the people that
pray are empowered themselves.
The people that pray becomepart of the solution and we
(19:11):
don't like that, like we want todisconnect the spiritual from,
let's say, the physical.
We're always like I said aprayer, now it's in God's hands
In God's hands Right.
And it's like it's in God'shands so far as the outcome.
But the reality is that you arein God's hands, right, and I
(19:39):
think if you pray sometimesyou've got to realize that what
you prayed for you're going toget good and hard that's one way
to say it.
I think what's worth notinghere is CS Lewis's quote on
prayer when he says you know,his prayer life changed when he
started praying the Lord'sPrayer a little bit different.
And he says he basicallystarted saying you know, your
kingdom come, your will be doneon earth as it is in heaven.
And then he started adding thisphrase at the end by me, right
now, right.
(20:00):
And I think most people pray andthen dodge the responsibility.
They pray and then they walkaway from it, failing to realize
that if you are full of theSpirit and you're the one in
that moment takingresponsibility for it, god is
fully ready to begin to give youauthority to do something about
it.
And William Booth has thisquote that I love.
(20:21):
He said I'm not waiting for amovement of God, I am a movement
of God.
He understood that the Spiritis in us and when we begin to
pray, we should also be the onesseeking for God to use us to be
the answer.
I think the entire churchglobally could use a dose of
this.
What if I'm the answer thatI've been praying for?
(20:41):
What if I am actually theanswer to this situation that
I'm seeing?
What if I actually began totake responsibility for some of
these things that God is seeing?
And am I courageous enough tobe willing to do that?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So true.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, kind of on the subject of brass tacks, of
starting a church, you know,when you told me, Justin, you
know I feel like this is theseason God is leading me to go
start this church, it didn't endat me praying for your church
and for that to be successfuland for you to have the people
you needed to set up systems orhelp with the podcast.
(21:19):
It was like, all right, prayfor those things.
Oh, I'm the guy for some ofthese things.
And this isn't your church,this is our church.
This is the church that God isbuilding with us in CS Lewis's
words, right here by me.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
One thing you kind of broughtto my head was when you run like
a I've been doing a cadre, wecall it, but it's a small group
yeah Thanks, small group, yeahthanks.
And half the time these guyswere talking about how terrible
and how sinful and howrebellious and like just
everything, that they're justnot anymore but yet still feel
like they are.
(21:56):
Yeah, and it drives me crazybecause, to your point, how do
you expect to go out and do whatgod you've been praying about
if you still think you'reworthless scum?
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
mean yeah, if your perception of yourself is
different than what the Biblesays is true about you, then
you'll always live in poverty,spiritually instead of the
miraculous spiritually.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
So that sounds like you know.
If you still feel that way,wake up, pray about it and move
on, or, better yet, Stoprepeating it every single day.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It would be great if you would quit speaking things
over yourself that Jesus saidare not true.
Yeah, you know, and let's behonest, the disciples that are
about to be sent out are notawesome.
They're not the cream of thecrop.
They weren't the group that wasqualified to do this.
Their leader, ostensiblyoutside of Christ, is Peter, but
(22:43):
everybody knows that Peter,yeah, we follow sometimes when
he does stuff because nobodyelse is going to step up and do
it.
But everybody in the back oftheir head knows this could go
south Right.
Sometimes it works out,sometimes it doesn't.
With this guy, ultimately yougot to be following Jesus'
leading.
But he sends them in, dude, hesends them in and he gives them
(23:07):
authority over unclean spiritsto cast them out and to heal
every kind of disease and everykind of sickness.
Is what it says, and I lovethat.
It's dominion over an area, notjust individuals.
You know he's like I'm givingyou authority, go into this
place and I want you to do thework with the people in this
place.
But what God is doing is neverrelegated just to individual
(23:29):
souls.
It's geographical areas God islike even when he speaks.
It's Jerusalem, judea, samaria,the ends of the earth.
They're physical places thathe's sending them to go, to set
up a bastion of hope in thatarea.
That would expel uncleanspirits, that would actually
heal people.
And I think we think about it inthis individual sense.
(23:51):
You know what I mean Oftentimes, where it's like, oh it's, you
know, it's a thing that he'sdoing for this particular person
.
Yeah, yeah, people too.
But remember that Christ isredeeming all things to himself,
and that isn't just individuals.
That's the very ground that wewalk on.
It's supposed to becomesomething palpable and real, and
(24:11):
I told you I was going to kindof bring it back, but, tim, I
feel like that's been my heartfrom the beginning is that God
started doing stuff in my guts.
You know, it was like I startedseeing what was going on.
I started reading the Biblelike a madman and the first
thing that I'm doing is I'mpraying and then suddenly God is
bringing a group of guys aroundme and we just start to pray
together.
And then suddenly, tim, you'repraying for people and you're
(24:35):
seeing people get set free fromstuff and other people that
we're doing ministry.
You're, you know, seeing peopleget set free from stuff.
I feel like, everywhere I'vegone my entire life when it's
been in faith has been acting on.
I'm going to say a deepconviction that God has placed
in my guts that I'm supposed todo something about this, and
then watching other people comealongside and be like, yeah,
(24:57):
this is way bigger than just you, this is something God is doing
with us.
This is something God is doingright now, like even this
podcast.
Tim was like there's a needwe're going to answer some
questions.
People have a lot of questions.
People have a lot of, like,concerns about stuff.
We should start actually tryingto answer some of those things,
and what you've been so good atis asking questions that I
(25:17):
would just float over and assume.
Doesn't everybody kind of getthat?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
already, doesn't everybody think like me?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Well, I mean speaking from just experience as a
longtime listener to the podcast, like I have grown just
listening to that too.
Yeah, but I wanted to.
You've been talking aboutsomething and I want you to
bring it up here, tying it backinto you know the people that
Jesus is looking at, you knowand what really resonated with
(25:49):
what you're talking about, withKing's Banner and the people.
Tell us about who the peopleare Jesus is seeing here.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, the first thing that I would bring up is that,
right after Jesus gives theseguys authorities to go and do
this stuff, their names arewritten in the Bible as the guys
who went and did it, which iscool.
So you have the list of thedisciples Now.
The names of the 12 apostlesare these these are the guys
that saw what God was saying,that felt in their guts what he
(26:17):
was feeling, that began to pray,that were gathered together,
were given responsibility andauthority and then sent out into
this areas and I just think,like there's something about
that.
The move of God was these guys.
That is terrifying to me.
Wait, what do you mean?
These guys?
You got all the intelligentpeople.
Pick them, lord.
Send somebody else, sendsomebody more qualified and, to
(26:39):
your point, tim, with all thesepeople that are like I'm not the
guy.
You probably are and that's whyyou're dealing with that lie.
I can't do this, I'm not this,I'm not that.
No, no, no, that that's.
It's great news for you If youread the Bible, because most of
the guys, that people that mostof the guys that God picks, uh,
are exactly the kind of peoplethat we would say, maybe sit
this one out, bud.
(26:59):
You know you're.
You're not that guy, pal.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You're not that guy Right.
Isn't ministry moreinvitational?
Tell me what you mean Like.
So we deal with, likevolunteers a lot at our church,
which are great, yeah, but it'speople who just I just want to
help I don't know where, I don'tknow what to do, you know.
But then you have these peoplelike, if you want a set few to
go out with you to start achurch, yeah, aren't you finding
(27:26):
a few guys that you trust, thatyou've been doing ministry with
, and you asking them hey, Ineed you to come with me.
I invite you to come with me,not so much the other way around
.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
It's a good question?
Um, I think it's probably both.
Some people have come to me andsaid I don't know why, but I am
supposed to do this and I'vebeen praying about it, and
there's some people that I'msaying, hey, I think we're
supposed to do this.
You should, you should come.
And what I've been surprised atis that the majority of people
that I've asked and said youshould come are not going, and
(27:52):
most of the people that arecoming with me are people that
are like I'm supposed to comeand I'm like, okay, god's
picking the team a little bit,and that's a good thing.
You got to at least, at somelevel, feel convicted by and see
what God is showing.
And I think if some people arenot at a place where they're
seeing that or feeling that intheir guts, or they got a
different conviction that Godhas uniquely called them to
(28:13):
praise the Lord, do that, getafter it.
But I would say this don't donothing, don't do nothing.
The most bitter Christians Iknow I've said it a billion
times, tim are the ones with afoot in the world and a foot in
the church, who are constantlytalking themselves out of doing
stuff that they're supposed todo and wonder why they're
frustrated.
And if you take that far enoughyou let that happen in your
life long enough you'll be theguy or girl who sits back and
(28:36):
critiques how everyone else isdoing it wrong to justify your
lack of faithfulness in doingsomething at all.
Yeah, and there's a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
There's also kind of people that are so spiritually
minded that they're no earthlygood Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I think that's when the invitation piece comes
in.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
If I feel like that all the time when I'm at church
and somebody sees somethingdifferent, I would want them to
tell me.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
But even before you're askingabout helping, you're feeling
something in your guts, right,even before you ask, you're
usually like I should probablyask yeah, even if you're like I
wonder if they need help in thisarea.
Why do I feel that way?
Because something is going offin my guts that's saying I
should probably see if I can dosomething in this area.
That's, that's the convictionthat drives people and I believe
(29:16):
that's the spirit in all of uscalling us to that.
But you can beat the heck out ofthat voice.
Yeah, you can repress it andpush it down and say no, I mean
comfort is killing so manypeople's callings.
You have this wonderful, likeAmerican dream that so many of
us have and it is, I'm tellingyou, I feel like 90% of the time
(29:38):
it is set against what God isactually calling us to do in our
own life.
And there are moments in yourlife where God's going to give
you peace and he'll give youblessing.
But if you're a Christian, Ifeel like it's never totally
comfortable because you'realways looking at what is God
asking me to do next?
What am I sacrificing next inthe name of Christ?
What am I?
What's the intention that I'msupposed to have in these
circumstances to do the stuffthat God is uniquely calling me
(29:59):
to do, and I've watched comfortkill a lot of calling in
people's lives, just trying tofigure stuff out over over,
actually following Jesus intowhat he's saying, and I wanted
to get back to what Casey wastrying to bring up earlier.
Jesus tells these guys in thismoment that he wants them to go
to the lost sheep of Israel,these people who are beat down
(30:23):
and beat up and have beencrushed and tossed.
I mean, what he's seeing inthis moment is not all of the
Gentiles who will eventuallyreceive the gospel and have the
gospel extended to them, but hisown people were getting the
crap kicked out of them.
And my call, tim, since I gotsaved, has almost I would say
(30:44):
this has first and foremost beento half-hearted, lethargic or
lost Christians, people who arehalf in, half out, don't
understand what it is thatthey're doing or why, have a
really hard time understandingthe Bible, can't find somebody
who will mentor or pour intothem, can't find somebody who
will help equip them and showthem how to do the stuff that
they're actually supposed to do.
(31:06):
And I feel like in the churchtoday there's a lot of people
who are really interested ingoing out and saving the lost
and praise the Lord.
I'm about that.
But what if you have a ton ofpeople in churches that are
already lost?
What if you have a bunch ofpeople that are Christians that
are saying you know, I'm notthere, like you know, I just
don't get it, or I don't knowhow to connect?
And let's be honest, how manychurches are full of people who
(31:29):
are not saved and they're partof, like, the covenant community
, but they don't know what'sgoing on.
Their marriages are fallingapart.
They don't know how to follow.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Jesus, that's always been my point when it comes to
like Easter and Christmassermons.
Is that exactly what you justsaid?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, Well, I think there's a, so I'll go here for a
second.
I think the church has becomeproficient at prioritizing our
neighbors over our own family.
I would say we are really goodat telling the lost how to get
saved, and the question is, whatare you saving them to?
Like?
If I'm trying to adopt somebody, the home that I'm adopting
(32:05):
them into is actually moreimportant than the adoption, and
a lot of people areprioritizing it the other
direction, like I just got toget this person into a family,
right.
But if your marriage is fallingapart and your kids hate you
right now, probably not the timeyou know what I mean, and we
should not be bastardizing thechurch in the name of trying to
reach somebody else.
(32:25):
In 1 Corinthians I'm fond ofbringing this up paul, at one
point, says I had a door wideopen for the gospel and I turned
around and left and came backto see you guys because I was.
I was, I heard some things weregoing wrong and I needed to
make sure I took care of this.
And where we're, where we'reheaded tim is um tyler texas,
which is the buckle of the biblebelt, like it's the it's.
(32:45):
It's literally, it's the thingholding it together, if you want
to think about it that way.
And what's sad is that there'sa ton of churches there but
they've lost 50% of attendanceand membership in the last five
years.
The younger generation isincreasingly post-Christian.
They're not attending church,they're not going, they're not
(33:06):
saved.
They're all looking for anopportunity to grow and fall in
love with Jesus at some level.
People that I've been talkingto down there, they know just
enough about Jesus to notactually know him.
And some of these numbers andguys I've been talking to that
are part of the Southern BaptistConvention and different arms
of that are saying that in thenext 20 years, if something
doesn't happen, tyler is goingto be post-Christian.
(33:27):
We're going to lose the buckleof the Bible belt, you're going
to lose the heart of it, you'regoing to lose the center of the
thing.
And just what?
What are the, what are theimplications of losing the Bible
belt in our nation from, like,let's take away the spiritual
element to it.
For, for, for, just from apolitical standpoint, for a
second, how bad do things go inyour culture?
(33:48):
You lose the bastion ofmorality in our country.
How bad do things go if youstart to lose, let's say, the
anchor that has kind of beentrying to hold the United States
to its convictions, and I'vebeen telling people this move is
not like a flash in the pan.
We're going to go down there andsave a couple before it all
falls apart.
(34:08):
Actually, my goal is no, weneed to go down there and for
the next 40 years, all fallsapart.
Actually, my goal is no, weneed to go down there and for
the next 40 years, we're goingto fight for the next generation
and pray that God would bringrevival, because I believe, if
you get this right, if you go,fight for the heart of our
Israel, if you want to call itthat way, the people of God who
are losing the next generationof families that are no longer
connecting and no longer coming,I think we're actually going to
(34:31):
lose so much more on a nationaland even a global level if we
don't fight for the God's peoplethat are already there, who are
like sheep without a shepherd,who are losing heart and losing
the ability to legitimatelyconnect with Jesus and find out
what the transformed life issupposed to be.
And we got a bunch of peopledown there who are like
conservatives and they think,because I voted red, obviously
(34:55):
Jesus loves me.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You know they're.
That is what is killing us.
They're going to potlucks afterchurch and hanging out and they
have that community, butthey're spiritually starving to
death.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah Well, and even even in conversations, even the
community piece isn't happening.
They'll go on a Sunday morningand check the box and then their
life outside of Sunday lookstotally different than what they
do on Sunday mornings andthat's not different than most
of the church.
I just think it's in aparticularly strategic area that
you do not want to lose.
But yeah, I mean, I've beengoing down there and talking to
(35:25):
one lady and she was like Istarted in this Baptist church
over here, I tried this churchover here, and then she
literally just sighed and waslike, honestly, I'm just lost
right now.
She's like I would love to finda place to go where I can like
be myself and grow in myrelationship with God, but I
just don't know where that is.
And I'm sitting there like wegot to get down here, we've got
(35:45):
to get this thing off the groundand get it going.
But as I've been looking atthis text, him, all I'm seeing
is God showing a need, godgiving me a heart and a
compassion for what's actuallygoing on, him calling me to pray
, him bringing a group togetherand, as we're taking
responsibility, I really believethat God's going to give us
spiritual authority to go downthere and really kick the
(36:07):
darkness in the teeth and myheart.
Ultimately, tim, is to wake upthe sleeping giant that is
lethargic Christianity.
Part of my ministry has beenagain grabbing three or four
guys and just getting people tosee what God is doing.
Begin to pour into those peopleand watch transformation happen
.
Look, if you want to reach thelost, start with raising up the
(36:30):
found.
If you want to reach the lost,actually make disciples, don't
just hire them.
If you want to reach the lost,you actually have to be the
catalyst for God'stransformative work in
somebody's life by the Spirit.
And I think so many of us arelooking for event Christianity,
which happens on Sundays, buthave no clue what it looks like
(36:51):
to actually not live like theworld the rest of the week
outside of just don't do badthings, do good things.
You know, there's got to be adifference, there's got to be a
vitality to it.
The rest of the week, outsideof just don't do bad things, do
good things.
There's got to be a difference,there's got to be a vitality to
it.
There's got to be a commitmentto it, a conviction.
And I'll tell you, tim, it iseasy to choose looking faithful
(37:11):
over actually exercising faith.
It's easy to do things thatused to be hard for you and miss
out on things that are actuallysteps of faith.
Right now and so many peopleare like I will I'd rather look
faithful to other people thanactually have to take steps of
faith now, and because of that,they're missing what God has
called them to.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's always a thought I have.
Actually, it's like I couldfake being a Christian so easily
.
I could speak the Christianeseso well.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, you know, yeah yeah, it's, it's easy to.
It's easy to pretend.
I mean, I think we talked alittle bit about the rich young
ruler, um, earlier on, but hiswhole story is going to jesus.
God, I'm doing all the rightthings, what else do I need to
inherit the kingdom?
And jesus is like you know whatyou lack, you're too
comfortable.
Yeah, come with me, get rid ofyour stuff.
I want you to follow me.
And he's's like hey, I didn'tknow you were going to ask me to
(37:58):
have faith.
I didn't know you were going toask me to actually make
decisions.
That would mean I have to trustyou and rely on you.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Don't be absurd.
It's one of the insurance ofeternal life.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, and that guy walks away and Jesus doesn't go
after him and all of us are likewhat?
But tell him to attend onSunday?
Look, yes, I love ResurrectionSunday.
I love the celebration that wehave in the church.
I love covenant, I lovesacraments and worship and
preaching.
All those things are gloriousbut they mean nothing if it
(38:28):
isn't transforming hearts andlives and winning over actual
people to the fullness of whoChrist has called them to be in
the gospel actual people to thefullness of who Christ has
called them to be in the gospel.
And I just feel like Tim in alot of ways we've become
addicted to an eventChristianity that looks a lot
like our culture and, ironically, if it looks a lot like your
culture, it probably can't bringa lot of transformation to your
(38:50):
culture.
And when fads come and fads go,if people are coming and going
with those fads, then you'redoing something wrong.
Numbers don't always meansuccess in these areas.
It just might mean you're agreat event coordinator.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Lord knows, we need good event coordinators but that
can't be the substance of whatit is.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Hey, heaven's going to be bright and noisy.
I'm not a fan of fog machines.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Your church gets fog machines, I ain't going.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, fair enough, fair enough but if it's the
shekinah glory of god, okay, tim, it'll be fine, you know.
And then we're all leavingbecause, uh, like, uh, um like,
like it happened in solomon'sday, you know, they decided to
get out of the temple because itwas so thick.
That was fun, all right yeah,yeah, yeah but it's been.
It's been wild man and, um, asI've been praying through this
(39:37):
and walking through stuff andjust trying to really try to get
my feet under me with what Godis calling me to do, it
feels—I've been quoting Lord ofthe Rings a lot to myself it's a
dangerous business, frodo,going out your door, stepping
onto the road.
If you don't keep your feet,there's no knowing where you
might be swept off to.
I just keep thinking it's like,yeah, there's this reality
(40:04):
where it's like going outside isdangerous.
Actually, taking steps of faithis hard and actually trusting
Jesus is going to make you lookvery different than what the
average bear is doing.
And I think we've become alittle bit like hobbits, you
know, not fond of adventures.
Really like the stuff that wehave, really like creating
community where you know we'rehappy here.
Really like the stuff that wehave Really like creating
community we're you know we'rehappy here.
But don't ask me to go anywhereand do anything.
In fact, we frown upon it whenpeople do and we'll probably try
to talk you out of it and Iwould say that is not.
(40:25):
That is not what God is callingus into.
There is a dragon, there is awar.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
other quote you what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (40:37):
uh, it does you no good to leave a dragon out of
your calculations if?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
you live, you live near one, yeah, that's what it
was and, uh, I just think, um,it's time for it's time for
people to come out of the hobbitholes and uh, and actually get
onto the road and start doingsome of the things that christ
has called them to do.
And look, this is not a, thisis not a drive-by guilting for
anybody who is faithful andserving and doing all the things
.
I praise God for you andhopefully, if you're that person
(41:02):
, you already know, like you'realready in the fight.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You're already doing it.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
That's great, but I do have a large concern that a
lot of people have stoppedtaking steps of faith and have
justified it by looking faithfulto other people instead, and
it's not the same thing.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Well, it goes back to your next step.
Of faith is always the hardest,step of faith is always the
next one.
And so if you find yourselfliving that comfortable, easy
life where nothing is hard,nothing is difficult, I mean
that's a really good indicatorthat you've stopped taking those
steps of faith.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, and I mean, let's be honest, in this same
text, in verse 16, he saysbehold, I send you out a sheep
in the midst of wolves.
So be shrewd as serpent andinnocent as doves Like do the
right things, but be thoughtful,be calculated in what I'm
calling you to do and how youwant to get it done.
And I think it's.
I think it's important that wedo that stuff.
I think it's important that wedo that stuff.
So everything we've been doingup to this point, man has been
(42:04):
cool.
I'm going to try to take thepassion and the conviction for
King's Banner that God hasplaced on my heart and I want to
champion this.
I'm going to go run after itand God is bringing people
together around this that arewanting to take responsibility
and prayerfully step into thisministry.
I'm trying to take a lot of thecontent that God has put on my
heart and start putting somebooks out.
I want to take this podcast andI want to amplify it.
God has used it, tim, and it'sreached a ton of people and we
(42:25):
haven't really been able to dothat much with it other than
just try to be consistent, andwe haven't even been great at
that.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
This year has been the hardest, I think, to be
consistent, it's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
And in a lot of ways, I think it's because God has
been moving the cloud for me.
Yeah, you know, when you startgetting pulled in a different
direction, it can be hard to putthings together, but now that I
see things coming together, Ithink it's going to be a great
opportunity to take the stuffthat we've been doing and turn
it up a little bit, have somefun with it and trust that God's
going to go, bring revival andhope and joy and, ultimately,
(42:57):
generations of faithful people.
I'm praying that when thebreath leaves my lungs and the
grip leave my hands, there'sgoing to be something awesome
going on that I will no longerhave anything to do with,
because God is using otherfaithful people to continue to
carry it and use it to plantother churches, raise up other
pastors, establish godlyfamilies, heal marriages, set
(43:17):
people free from addictions, setpeople free from faithless
lives and actually put people onmission in a covenant community
where worship of Jesus Christis central and living in faith
is a byproduct, and I'm fired upabout it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Awesome.
Well, thanks, dude.
Yeah, I'm excited to telleverybody man.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I feel like we've talked about bringing it up on
the podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
A couple of times and just been waiting a little bit.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think Casey's going to be involved in future
podcasts.
He's going to be helping us getstuff off the ground a little
bit when we're in Tyler, andthen Tim's going to continue to
be his lovely self, because weneed that sweet, deep voice you
got bro.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
That's true.
You can't have the podcastwithout Tim we are not.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Uh, I would say this we're not subtracting anything.
Goal is that we're adding stuff.
And again, for those of youguys that want to uh the give to
what we're doing as a churchKings bannerorg we would love
for you to donate.
Every dollar you give right nowis really helping, going to the
foundation of what we're doingwith this church.
You get to kind of help buildit right now financially, which
(44:19):
is cool.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Uh, I'll have it in the description the your website
for your church, perfect, anduh, if you guys have questions,
email us.
Uh, we have a send a text thingon there.
Oh yeah, but just so peopleknow, I I just literally get the
city and the state that youtexted from.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
That's helpful.
You gotta put some info onthere.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so if you want questions answered, uh, email us
.
Yeah, that's in the descriptionas well.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
And uh, on the website as well, you can sign up
.
There's like a monthlynewsletter that'll go out and
I'll keep you posted on uh, uh,new podcasts that are coming out
, updates on book stuff that'shappening, updates on what's
going on with the church, andtry to keep you guys in the loop
with everything going on.
But I want to echo what Timsaid Super grateful for you guys
that have been consistentlisteners and paying attention
to everything that we've beendoing on this podcast.
(45:07):
In a big way you've kind ofbeen part of our ministry and
what God's been doing through usand we really appreciate you
and we spend time praying foryou actually before every single
podcast.
So, uh, pray that uh, Godcontinues to bless you guys and
use this to um, to, to, to toraise up God's banner everywhere
we go.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Amen Amen.
Right on All right.
Casey, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
No problem, thanks for having me.
Thanks for carrying this downto Texas the navigate banner
right next to the Kings banner.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Well, just below it.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
That's going to be a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
It's been half mass the whole time.
It's like no something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Oh my word, we have so much to go over.
But all right, you guys arefantastic, love you all, hope
you all have an amazing week.
Yeah, catch you all next time,all right?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
See ya.
guys, welcome back to navigate justin.
What is up, bro?
How are you buddy?
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I am, uh, somewhere between a unicorn and um a couch
potato.
You know, somewhere in that,somewhere in that zone mystical,
but still a little bitdisoriented okay that's the
potato part.
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, to methat's how that works out, so
(00:29):
you asked we yeah, you're right,I should have learned.
I mean, I can give youdifferent categories.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
I've got uh we got casey with us too.
Hey guys, how's it going?
Casey's with us.
Um, last episode we did withthe generational curses, sins
one.
Yep, we mentioned some.
Um, do you want to just jump inreal quick on that?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, happy to.
So, um, I am going to beplanting a church uh, actually
out in Texas in the next coupleof months.
Me and my family are moving outthere with a group of about 30
or 35 people that are wanting tocome and get stuff off the
ground.
We're pretty pumped about it.
It's going to be called King'sBanner.
(01:08):
King's Banner, so if you guyswant to check it out,
kingsbannerorg.
We've got a website going, gota bunch of stuff set up and I've
just been running aroundtalking with people like a
madman and networking and makingtrips out to Texas and looking
at all the opportunity andpotential for what God wants to
do down there.
So, pretty pumped about it.
(01:29):
And if you like the podcast,you like the content that we put
out, I'd love for you guys tostay tuned for the stuff that's
going on there.
Yeah, and then, on top of that,I'm going to have a book
published, I think in December.
Wow, which should be super fun.
Which one?
I wrote four books at thebeginning of this year Tim.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Oh, is that all.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Technically six.
Two of them are textbooks.
Now, one of them was based offof a podcast series we did.
Yeah, is that the one?
So?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
we'll have a.
The podcast series was basedoff of a sermon series that I
did, yes, called 10 Rules forLife, because you don't need 12
rules, you need 10.
Which?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
is what we did, I know On the Ten Commandments, so
we walked through those.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
But we'll have a yeah , it's not in the publishing
process, but the manuscript isdone Awesome, and we'll be.
Yeah, we'll hopefully have abook called 10 Rules for Life
here in the, you know, in thecoming future as well, which
will be fun.
That's awesome, be fun.
But this, this, uh, this bookcoming out is going to be called
burn.
Um, it's all about, and tim.
(02:28):
I think I talked to you about itbefore, but it was like the
book that god put on my heartlike four or five years ago.
Um and uh, beginning of thisyear, I just sat down I was like
I'm gonna start actuallywriting down the things that
I've been working on and andcodifying it.
You know, getting it all puttogether and it's's been, it's
been cool.
I got a book on Malachi I did.
I got a book on second Petercalled the Genesis cycle.
(02:50):
Um, burn, and then the 10commandments, and I'm also
working on another manuscriptright now, uh, for a book on
marriage that I'm trying tocoauthor with my wife.
It should be fun.
That's interesting, like I knowanything about marriage, it'll
look.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Yeah, what do you know about marriage?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't know, buy the book, tell you, tell you all
about it.
But it's been a lot of fun, man, it's been.
I feel like I've been doingministry for basically the last
10 years and a lot of what's inthese books is just a
culmination of stuff that Godhas been putting on my heart,
stuff that's blessed otherpeople, and putting it in a
(03:24):
package form where I can hand itto somebody.
This book Burn will be funbecause it's kind of a field
manual for catching fire.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
That's the goal is you read these chapters?
Spiritual fire, of course, yeah, exactly Literally.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Here's how to do jihad.
Yeah, don't do that, you'restarting a church.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You've got to watch what you say now.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You know you're starting a church.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
You gotta watch what you say now, you know I was
thinking about that.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
You kind of buried the lead.
I'm starting a church alsobooks.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Yeah, oh yeah, I didn't, even so I've been.
I've just here's what's beengoing on my life, guys, for the
last six months.
I feel like god is taking allthe things that have been going
on inside of me for the last 10years and it's just amplified
them.
Um, I've been doing ministry,I've been doing counseling, I've
been training pastors, I'vebeen teaching and preaching and
(04:09):
strategy and all the things thatgo into that, and it's like in
the last six months, all of it'sbeen turned up to a 10.
And so I am doing everythingthat I can right now to just
follow Jesus into what I feellike he's doing.
And it very much feels likethis is stuff that God is doing,
not stuff that I was intendingto do on my own.
(04:33):
It's just kind of erupting,which is cool but also
absolutely crazy at the sametime.
But I am super pumped aboutKing's Banner, super pumped
about the church that we'regoing to be kicking off.
I'm really excited.
I've had a couple ofopportunities with other
churches and I've always, like,turned them down.
I'm not interested.
I'm for the mission, I'm forthe fight.
But the idea of going out andstarting something new with a
(04:55):
group of people where we'regoing to be able to plant
something generational.
You know what I mean that whenI breathe out it will continue
on after I'm gone.
I'm just, I'm so excited aboutthat, so really pumped.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
You kind of said something there that you know,
talking about your life and likeit's been super crazy and
everything, and I think the wordthat came to me is you never
understand the fear of God untilyou give him complete control
over your life Hate that yeah,it's more like trust in God is
(05:28):
terrifying, yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:31):
Well, part of the reason Casey's here.
You're going with him.
I am indeed.
Casey has been part of the samechurch we all worked for for
many years now.
What five for you.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Three and a half.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Is that all?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Yeah, just before you started, same as me, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Okay, interesting.
I was like 1,280 days for youeschatology nerds out there Just
kidding.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Casey's been on the episode once before, I think Yep
, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
April of 23.
Wow, I went back and listenedto it just so that I would not
screw myself up.
I've already found four ways.
I've messed up already, sowe'll pray for you.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Thanks.
We wanted to introduce you allto Casey because I am not going
to Tyler Texas, as disappointingthat may sound for myself, but
he is in spirit, guys, caseywill.
The plan is is to continue todo this podcast remotely as best
we can, but they're alsowanting to expand this thing way
more than what I've been ableto do.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
We're really here with with it, so well, I think
the goal is um to do twice amonth.
We'll continue to do what we'redoing right now, which will be
primarily audio and recordingstuff, and it'll be fun, and
then, twice a month, we're goingto try to do some video stuff
like we've been talking aboutfor the last wanting to do two
years.
We've tried video.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
It's a lot of work, yeah, so pretty pretty pumped
about yeah casey will be kind ofspearheading it down there in
texas, from what I understand,right that's the goal?
Speaker 2 (06:55):
I think so, and we have a.
We finally have a behind thescenes guy.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
We do we have a quick shout out to what I was just
saying before we startedrecording was I can't wait to
just record my voice and justnot have to deal with it anymore
.
No editing, no uploads, nocorrupted files, no, nothing.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
If you guys don't know this, Tim happening to
listen to my voice over and overagain in the editing process
has caused him substantialneurological problems.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's just it's aged him at least 40 years.
Yeah, we're, we're praying forhim, and this is also a
disclaimer to anybody who's beenlistening to the podcast.
Eventually, I will wear youdown, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Okay, that's very true, no, try listening at two
times speed.
That's a trip.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I feel like it's doable.
I feel like gosh, do I talkthat slow?
It drives me crazy.
But I've heard other peoplelike I wish you would just slow
down.
You know, and you're talking.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
I'm like I don't have it in me.
I don't have it in me.
Yeah, it's been a lot.
It's been cool because westarted this five years ago.
Dang 2020 was our first episode, right in the middle of Rona
Five years ago.
That kind of blew my mind.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
Thousands of downloads later, we were trying
to spread at the rate of thecoronavirus, but the government
wouldn't help us.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
It made it difficult.
What spreads faster than thecommon cold?
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Apparently not Navigate Podcast, which was the
upper room.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
The journey we've gone on.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's been nostalgic man Bread and wine logo and all
that.
It was upper room.
Yeah, the journey we've gone on.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
It's been nostalgic man the old bread and wine logo
and all that.
It was a free picture I got.
I wouldn't get sued for it.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
That's the important thing we kept the guitar rift.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
We did, oh, we did.
Thank you, jeremy Strandford.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, he's got a little.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I don't even know what you're calling that.
A little jangle, that's what Iwas thinking.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
But real shout out to all of our subscribers too.
You guys have helped this thingmaintain for five years.
This thing does cost money, sowith your help it's been super
generous, super helpful.
So we hope to count on thatgoing forward If not all good,
honestly, but we're lookingforward to what King's Banner
Church does with this podcast.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yeah, we're really hoping to take everything that
we've been doing and notdownplay it, but really amplify
it.
And Tim, I got to tell you,dude, it's been freaking
fantastic and I don't thinkwe're going to be slowing down
really.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
I think it's just going to be more like taking it
and rolling with it.
We're going to have coming backmaybe a month.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
We'll see, but we'll be back at it, yeah, yeah the
moving process will certainly beinteresting.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yeah, buckle up, yeah but with that out of the way, I
don't know if there's anythingelse we need to talk about, but
I do believe you kind of wantedto talk about something.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah, about kind of your vision and why so I I think
I just wanted to share a littlebit about what.
There's a text that God haskind of placed on my heart as
I've been processing and workingthrough stuff and trying to
follow God and to where you knowhe's been calling me and my
family and a bunch of otherfamilies at this point, and it's
(09:59):
actually in Matthew chapternine.
So I wanted to go there quicklyand it's just the end of
Matthew chapter nine, but it'sit's kind of a powerful text and
starting in verse 36, it saysthis Jesus, seeing the people,
he felt compassion for thembecause they were distressed and
dispirited, like a sheepwithout a shepherd.
Then he said to his disciplesthe harvest is plentiful but the
(10:21):
workers are few.
Therefore, beseech the Lord ofthe harvest to send out workers
into his harvest.
And Jesus summoned his 12disciples, gave them authority
over unclean spirits to castthem out and to heal every kind
of disease and every kind ofsickness.
And then he names who thedisciples are in this passage.
But it's cool watching thisprogress.
(10:44):
Like Tim, I don't know, I meanyou've been with me from like
the beginning, man, yeah, but itseems like my ministry kind of
started in the living rooms, youknow, with like two or three
people, and then we'd get to apoint where we were like pulling
furniture out and trying to fiteverybody in.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
That was awesome.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
It was the best because we'd be up till like two
in the morning just singingworship.
You know people trying to speakin tongues that shouldn't be
trying to speak in tongues andlike all kinds of weird.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You know let me say something that it started that
way and then years later itturned into hey sam, I have to
go do this.
Can you cover for me seriously,like back in the kitchen days?
I'm like sure, just go, go praywith these people.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
I know we're in the middle of a rush, but I I got to
pray for this guy's leg to gethealed.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I know you have to feed 300 people, but I'm leaving
.
You're on your own pal.
I'm going to go tell peopleabout Jesus.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, Tim's been supporting my ministry from the
very beginning in a myriad ofways, which seems to be the case
with anybody that gets close tome long enough.
Hey, I need your help now.
Cool things are happening.
Yeah, it's been wild.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Casey, I tell you that for your benefit.
Oh, I've seen it.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
I am not that new to this, Tim.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
I definitely experienced it already.
Tim always gets mad becauseback in the kitchens I would
make people, I would teachpeople how to do things, and
then the second I would teachpeople how to do things, then I
would ask them to do the thingthat I taught them how to do and
they're like well, I wanted theskill, but I didn't know I was
going to have to use it.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Don't have to work for it.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
One time Tim was really interested in how to make
like lemon roses, and we hadthis thing.
I was like I'm going to showyou how to do it, but then I'm
going to make you use it, and itwas like garnishing stuff.
And then the next week we hadthis whole seafood buffet that
we were putting together.
I was like Tim, I need 120.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
It wasn't like one or two at a time, it was like I
need 100 by tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Yeah, what it was wild.
It was wild.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
I've never made one since Trial by fire.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Yeah, a trial by lemon.
It was a real lemon.
Yeah, all right.
But this, this text, just tojust to take you there and I'll
connect it to what I was justsaying Jesus, in verse 36, it
says he sees the people, andthis word is is idon.
It's not blepo, which is theword that means like to, to
deeply look at something, to seethrough something.
(12:58):
Idon is more like reading themoment, seeing what's actually
happening, what the situation is.
He's reading what's actuallygoing on, and then it says that
Jesus felt compassion for thembecause they were distressed and
dispirited, like a sheepwithout a shepherd.
These words, distressed anddispirited, literally mean like
cast down, thrown out.
(13:19):
If you can imagine somebodywho's like lost a fight, you
know what I mean.
Like I've been, I'm losing, I'mdown on the ground.
That's the picture.
And he says and they're likesheep, sheep without a shepherd.
And then he says to hisdisciples the harvest is
plentiful, but the workers arefew, and he tells them to
beseech the Lord of the harvest.
Or I want you to pray.
I want you to pray that Godwould send out workers into the
(13:40):
harvest to get this thing done.
All right.
And so, like the, the clearprogression that I see here, tim
is Jesus is seeing that thereis a there's a legitimate need,
there's pain here, there's hurthere, and then he feels
compassion for them.
And I think, as Christians,we're supposed to have our eyes
open so that we can see whatJesus would see Like we.
(14:02):
We pray this prayer all thetime.
Lord, give me your eyes, youknow what I mean, so I can see
what it is that you want me tosee, so I can pay attention.
And I feel like God, readingthrough scripture, has very real
opinions and emotions and even,I would even say, pain in his
heart for some of the thingsthat are going on in our world.
And oftentimes we're dull,we're pretty myopic.
(14:24):
We stay right in what we'relooking at and what we're seeing
.
And I think if we pray moreoften, god, show me what it is
that you're doing, show me whatit is that you see.
And I believe that God showspeople his heart when they're
actually willing to follow himinto what he's calling them to
do.
And too often people are askingGod, god, I want to know your
(14:46):
heart, I want to know you moreWell, if you do that, I want you
to know it's going to take youdown a roller coaster, if you
actually want to know God.
You don't know him in just theknowledge.
You actually know him in theexperience.
I've experienced the Lord.
I've walked with God in whathe's doing, and so he's seeing
the people and feels compassionfor them.
And this word is funny, it'sthe word splunkna Tim.
(15:09):
Say splunkna, splunkna,splunkna.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Splunkna, Splunkna.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
It's one of you know it's a derivative of it,
splunkna the doomslayer.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
The house of splunkna yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
It literally means your guts.
Guts like your guts, likeliterally.
This word means to feel it inyour guts that, oh my gosh, like
there's a need like this is.
You guys have felt that before.
The word I I like to use forjust conviction actually felt
something in the, in the personof who I am, and it's, it's
changing the way that I viewsomething.
It's it's not just somethingthat I'm looking at, it's
(15:43):
something that I feel gripped by.
And then he sees them.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Wouldn't that be like an epiphany too?
Isn't that the same thing?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
You could see it as an epiphany.
I think it's more just likepaying attention.
Yeah, because, look, tim, ifyou watch the news, you'll feel
exhausted by the end of it.
Right, because you're seeingall the different things that
are going on and you only havethe capacity to actually do
something about a little littlebit of it, right?
And I feel like the more westare at massive, large problems
(16:13):
that are going on globally, theless energy we have for actual
things that we could dosomething about happening
locally.
You know, and most of us areinundated with so many things
that are going wrong, that aregoing wrong that are happening
on this massive level, that weall feel hopeless to do anything
about it, and it actually makesus exhausted and not look for
(16:33):
opportunities that are withinour ability to do something
about.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
I would just jump in as far as an epiphany.
I would say the differencebetween an epiphany and Splunkno
would be something like anepiphany is oh and splunk knows
oh that's.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
That's a good.
It's a good distinction, yeah,one at least.
This clearly communicates thatgotta sing, that there's
something going on.
There's a deep gut feeling thatgoes with it, and this gut
feeling was him seeing peoplewho were looking like they were
losing a fight.
I don't know if you've seensomebody losing a fight before,
but there is something inside ofyou that's like, ah, we got to
(17:10):
help this guy, we got to get inthere, we got to do something
about it.
And then he tells the disciplesto do what, to pray for it
already.
Pray right.
Beseech the Lord of the harvestto send out workers, because
apparently the harvest isplentiful.
Like there's a lot of work thatcould be done, but the amount
of people that want to dosomething about it is very few.
(17:31):
If you don't want to do thatwork.
Yeah, yeah, jesus, I'll followyou as long as I don't have to
leave my neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah, you know what I mean, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
I love the idea of doing something about it in a
way that makes me feel morecomfortable, not less
comfortable.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
As you've said before Jesus, I'll do anything for you
.
Great Will you wash dishes,yeah?
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Uh, you know, my wife will wash the dishes.
You know what I mean.
But not, yeah, it's, it's a lotlike that.
It's a lot like that.
And he says, um, he tells thembasically to pray.
Therefore, beseech the Lord ofthe harvest to send out workers
into the harvest.
And the reality is, is God istelling them in this moment, I
want you to pray?
And I would say they probablydid If Jesus, in the moment,
(18:09):
told them to pray.
They probably stopped andprayed.
You would at least think that.
And then who does he send?
Who are the workers that hesends?
The disciples, the people thatprayed.
Yeah, the people that prayed.
So I brought this up on thepodcast before.
But there is a principle ofministry For all you maybe
(18:30):
younger guys out there, some ofyou wondering how do I have a
greater impact on the stuff thatI'm doing?
It's really simple, but it'snot easy.
The second you begin to takespiritual responsibility for
something, god will begin togive you spiritual authority.
Okay, the second you takespiritual responsibility for
something, god will also bringother people around you and give
(18:51):
you all spiritual authority.
So the second they startpraying, you start taking
responsibility for it.
And then who gets sent out, thepeople that prayed.
And our tendency in prayer isto think I prayed, I'm done.
But actually what we see inScripture is the people that
pray are empowered themselves.
The people that pray becomepart of the solution and we
(19:11):
don't like that, like we want todisconnect the spiritual from,
let's say, the physical.
We're always like I said aprayer, now it's in God's hands
In God's hands Right.
And it's like it's in God'shands so far as the outcome.
But the reality is that you arein God's hands, right, and I
(19:39):
think if you pray sometimesyou've got to realize that what
you prayed for you're going toget good and hard that's one way
to say it.
I think what's worth notinghere is CS Lewis's quote on
prayer when he says you know,his prayer life changed when he
started praying the Lord'sPrayer a little bit different.
And he says he basicallystarted saying you know, your
kingdom come, your will be doneon earth as it is in heaven.
And then he started adding thisphrase at the end by me, right
now, right.
(20:00):
And I think most people pray andthen dodge the responsibility.
They pray and then they walkaway from it, failing to realize
that if you are full of theSpirit and you're the one in
that moment takingresponsibility for it, god is
fully ready to begin to give youauthority to do something about
it.
And William Booth has thisquote that I love.
(20:21):
He said I'm not waiting for amovement of God, I am a movement
of God.
He understood that the Spiritis in us and when we begin to
pray, we should also be the onesseeking for God to use us to be
the answer.
I think the entire churchglobally could use a dose of
this.
What if I'm the answer thatI've been praying for?
(20:41):
What if I am actually theanswer to this situation that
I'm seeing?
What if I actually began totake responsibility for some of
these things that God is seeing?
And am I courageous enough tobe willing to do that?
Speaker 1 (20:55):
So true.
Speaker 3 (20:56):
Yeah, kind of on the subject of brass tacks, of
starting a church, you know,when you told me, Justin, you
know I feel like this is theseason God is leading me to go
start this church, it didn't endat me praying for your church
and for that to be successfuland for you to have the people
you needed to set up systems orhelp with the podcast.
(21:19):
It was like, all right, prayfor those things.
Oh, I'm the guy for some ofthese things.
And this isn't your church,this is our church.
This is the church that God isbuilding with us in CS Lewis's
words, right here by me.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's good.
One thing you kind of broughtto my head was when you run like
a I've been doing a cadre, wecall it, but it's a small group
yeah Thanks, small group, yeahthanks.
And half the time these guyswere talking about how terrible
and how sinful and howrebellious and like just
everything, that they're justnot anymore but yet still feel
like they are.
(21:56):
Yeah, and it drives me crazybecause, to your point, how do
you expect to go out and do whatgod you've been praying about
if you still think you'reworthless scum?
You know what I?
Speaker 2 (22:04):
mean yeah, if your perception of yourself is
different than what the Biblesays is true about you, then
you'll always live in poverty,spiritually instead of the
miraculous spiritually.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
So that sounds like you know.
If you still feel that way,wake up, pray about it and move
on, or, better yet, Stoprepeating it every single day.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
It would be great if you would quit speaking things
over yourself that Jesus saidare not true.
Yeah, you know, and let's behonest, the disciples that are
about to be sent out are notawesome.
They're not the cream of thecrop.
They weren't the group that wasqualified to do this.
Their leader, ostensiblyoutside of Christ, is Peter, but
(22:43):
everybody knows that Peter,yeah, we follow sometimes when
he does stuff because nobodyelse is going to step up and do
it.
But everybody in the back oftheir head knows this could go
south Right.
Sometimes it works out,sometimes it doesn't.
With this guy, ultimately yougot to be following Jesus'
leading.
But he sends them in, dude, hesends them in and he gives them
(23:07):
authority over unclean spiritsto cast them out and to heal
every kind of disease and everykind of sickness.
Is what it says, and I lovethat.
It's dominion over an area, notjust individuals.
You know he's like I'm givingyou authority, go into this
place and I want you to do thework with the people in this
place.
But what God is doing is neverrelegated just to individual
(23:29):
souls.
It's geographical areas God islike even when he speaks.
It's Jerusalem, judea, samaria,the ends of the earth.
They're physical places thathe's sending them to go, to set
up a bastion of hope in thatarea.
That would expel uncleanspirits, that would actually
heal people.
And I think we think about it inthis individual sense.
(23:51):
You know what I mean Oftentimes, where it's like, oh it's, you
know, it's a thing that he'sdoing for this particular person
.
Yeah, yeah, people too.
But remember that Christ isredeeming all things to himself,
and that isn't just individuals.
That's the very ground that wewalk on.
It's supposed to becomesomething palpable and real, and
(24:11):
I told you I was going to kindof bring it back, but, tim, I
feel like that's been my heartfrom the beginning is that God
started doing stuff in my guts.
You know, it was like I startedseeing what was going on.
I started reading the Biblelike a madman and the first
thing that I'm doing is I'mpraying and then suddenly God is
bringing a group of guys aroundme and we just start to pray
together.
And then suddenly, tim, you'repraying for people and you're
(24:35):
seeing people get set free fromstuff and other people that
we're doing ministry.
You're, you know, seeing peopleget set free from stuff.
I feel like, everywhere I'vegone my entire life when it's
been in faith has been acting on.
I'm going to say a deepconviction that God has placed
in my guts that I'm supposed todo something about this, and
then watching other people comealongside and be like, yeah,
(24:57):
this is way bigger than just you, this is something God is doing
with us.
This is something God is doingright now, like even this
podcast.
Tim was like there's a needwe're going to answer some
questions.
People have a lot of questions.
People have a lot of, like,concerns about stuff.
We should start actually tryingto answer some of those things,
and what you've been so good atis asking questions that I
(25:17):
would just float over and assume.
Doesn't everybody kind of getthat?
Speaker 1 (25:21):
already, doesn't everybody think like me?
Speaker 3 (25:25):
Well, I mean speaking from just experience as a
longtime listener to the podcast, like I have grown just
listening to that too.
Yeah, but I wanted to.
You've been talking aboutsomething and I want you to
bring it up here, tying it backinto you know the people that
Jesus is looking at, you knowand what really resonated with
(25:49):
what you're talking about, withKing's Banner and the people.
Tell us about who the peopleare Jesus is seeing here.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well, the first thing that I would bring up is that,
right after Jesus gives theseguys authorities to go and do
this stuff, their names arewritten in the Bible as the guys
who went and did it, which iscool.
So you have the list of thedisciples Now.
The names of the 12 apostlesare these these are the guys
that saw what God was saying,that felt in their guts what he
(26:17):
was feeling, that began to pray,that were gathered together,
were given responsibility andauthority and then sent out into
this areas and I just think,like there's something about
that.
The move of God was these guys.
That is terrifying to me.
Wait, what do you mean?
These guys?
You got all the intelligentpeople.
Pick them, lord.
Send somebody else, sendsomebody more qualified and, to
(26:39):
your point, tim, with all thesepeople that are like I'm not the
guy.
You probably are and that's whyyou're dealing with that lie.
I can't do this, I'm not this,I'm not that.
No, no, no, that that's.
It's great news for you If youread the Bible, because most of
the guys, that people that mostof the guys that God picks, uh,
are exactly the kind of peoplethat we would say, maybe sit
this one out, bud.
(26:59):
You know you're.
You're not that guy, pal.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
You're not that guy Right.
Isn't ministry moreinvitational?
Tell me what you mean Like.
So we deal with, likevolunteers a lot at our church,
which are great, yeah, but it'speople who just I just want to
help I don't know where, I don'tknow what to do, you know.
But then you have these peoplelike, if you want a set few to
go out with you to start achurch, yeah, aren't you finding
(27:26):
a few guys that you trust, thatyou've been doing ministry with
, and you asking them hey, Ineed you to come with me.
I invite you to come with me,not so much the other way around
.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
It's a good question?
Um, I think it's probably both.
Some people have come to me andsaid I don't know why, but I am
supposed to do this and I'vebeen praying about it, and
there's some people that I'msaying, hey, I think we're
supposed to do this.
You should, you should come.
And what I've been surprised atis that the majority of people
that I've asked and said youshould come are not going, and
(27:52):
most of the people that arecoming with me are people that
are like I'm supposed to comeand I'm like, okay, god's
picking the team a little bit,and that's a good thing.
You got to at least, at somelevel, feel convicted by and see
what God is showing.
And I think if some people arenot at a place where they're
seeing that or feeling that intheir guts, or they got a
different conviction that Godhas uniquely called them to
(28:13):
praise the Lord, do that, getafter it.
But I would say this don't donothing, don't do nothing.
The most bitter Christians Iknow I've said it a billion
times, tim are the ones with afoot in the world and a foot in
the church, who are constantlytalking themselves out of doing
stuff that they're supposed todo and wonder why they're
frustrated.
And if you take that far enoughyou let that happen in your
life long enough you'll be theguy or girl who sits back and
(28:36):
critiques how everyone else isdoing it wrong to justify your
lack of faithfulness in doingsomething at all.
Yeah, and there's a lot of that.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
There's also kind of people that are so spiritually
minded that they're no earthlygood Sure.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I think that's when the invitation piece comes
in.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
If I feel like that all the time when I'm at church
and somebody sees somethingdifferent, I would want them to
tell me.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah.
But even before you're askingabout helping, you're feeling
something in your guts, right,even before you ask, you're
usually like I should probablyask yeah, even if you're like I
wonder if they need help in thisarea.
Why do I feel that way?
Because something is going offin my guts that's saying I
should probably see if I can dosomething in this area.
That's, that's the convictionthat drives people and I believe
(29:16):
that's the spirit in all of uscalling us to that.
But you can beat the heck out ofthat voice.
Yeah, you can repress it andpush it down and say no, I mean
comfort is killing so manypeople's callings.
You have this wonderful, likeAmerican dream that so many of
us have and it is, I'm tellingyou, I feel like 90% of the time
(29:38):
it is set against what God isactually calling us to do in our
own life.
And there are moments in yourlife where God's going to give
you peace and he'll give youblessing.
But if you're a Christian, Ifeel like it's never totally
comfortable because you'realways looking at what is God
asking me to do next?
What am I sacrificing next inthe name of Christ?
What am I?
What's the intention that I'msupposed to have in these
circumstances to do the stuffthat God is uniquely calling me
(29:59):
to do, and I've watched comfortkill a lot of calling in
people's lives, just trying tofigure stuff out over over,
actually following Jesus intowhat he's saying, and I wanted
to get back to what Casey wastrying to bring up earlier.
Jesus tells these guys in thismoment that he wants them to go
to the lost sheep of Israel,these people who are beat down
(30:23):
and beat up and have beencrushed and tossed.
I mean, what he's seeing inthis moment is not all of the
Gentiles who will eventuallyreceive the gospel and have the
gospel extended to them, but hisown people were getting the
crap kicked out of them.
And my call, tim, since I gotsaved, has almost I would say
(30:44):
this has first and foremost beento half-hearted, lethargic or
lost Christians, people who arehalf in, half out, don't
understand what it is thatthey're doing or why, have a
really hard time understandingthe Bible, can't find somebody
who will mentor or pour intothem, can't find somebody who
will help equip them and showthem how to do the stuff that
they're actually supposed to do.
(31:06):
And I feel like in the churchtoday there's a lot of people
who are really interested ingoing out and saving the lost
and praise the Lord.
I'm about that.
But what if you have a ton ofpeople in churches that are
already lost?
What if you have a bunch ofpeople that are Christians that
are saying you know, I'm notthere, like you know, I just
don't get it, or I don't knowhow to connect?
And let's be honest, how manychurches are full of people who
(31:29):
are not saved and they're partof, like, the covenant community
, but they don't know what'sgoing on.
Their marriages are fallingapart.
They don't know how to follow.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Jesus, that's always been my point when it comes to
like Easter and Christmassermons.
Is that exactly what you justsaid?
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Yeah, Well, I think there's a, so I'll go here for a
second.
I think the church has becomeproficient at prioritizing our
neighbors over our own family.
I would say we are really goodat telling the lost how to get
saved, and the question is, whatare you saving them to?
Like?
If I'm trying to adopt somebody, the home that I'm adopting
(32:05):
them into is actually moreimportant than the adoption, and
a lot of people areprioritizing it the other
direction, like I just got toget this person into a family,
right.
But if your marriage is fallingapart and your kids hate you
right now, probably not the timeyou know what I mean, and we
should not be bastardizing thechurch in the name of trying to
reach somebody else.
(32:25):
In 1 Corinthians I'm fond ofbringing this up paul, at one
point, says I had a door wideopen for the gospel and I turned
around and left and came backto see you guys because I was.
I was, I heard some things weregoing wrong and I needed to
make sure I took care of this.
And where we're, where we'reheaded tim is um tyler texas,
which is the buckle of the biblebelt, like it's the it's.
(32:45):
It's literally, it's the thingholding it together, if you want
to think about it that way.
And what's sad is that there'sa ton of churches there but
they've lost 50% of attendanceand membership in the last five
years.
The younger generation isincreasingly post-Christian.
They're not attending church,they're not going, they're not
(33:06):
saved.
They're all looking for anopportunity to grow and fall in
love with Jesus at some level.
People that I've been talkingto down there, they know just
enough about Jesus to notactually know him.
And some of these numbers andguys I've been talking to that
are part of the Southern BaptistConvention and different arms
of that are saying that in thenext 20 years, if something
doesn't happen, tyler is goingto be post-Christian.
(33:27):
We're going to lose the buckleof the Bible belt, you're going
to lose the heart of it, you'regoing to lose the center of the
thing.
And just what?
What are the, what are theimplications of losing the Bible
belt in our nation from, like,let's take away the spiritual
element to it.
For, for, for, just from apolitical standpoint, for a
second, how bad do things go inyour culture?
(33:48):
You lose the bastion ofmorality in our country.
How bad do things go if youstart to lose, let's say, the
anchor that has kind of beentrying to hold the United States
to its convictions, and I'vebeen telling people this move is
not like a flash in the pan.
We're going to go down there andsave a couple before it all
falls apart.
(34:08):
Actually, my goal is no, weneed to go down there and for
the next 40 years, all fallsapart.
Actually, my goal is no, weneed to go down there and for
the next 40 years, we're goingto fight for the next generation
and pray that God would bringrevival, because I believe, if
you get this right, if you go,fight for the heart of our
Israel, if you want to call itthat way, the people of God who
are losing the next generationof families that are no longer
connecting and no longer coming,I think we're actually going to
(34:31):
lose so much more on a nationaland even a global level if we
don't fight for the God's peoplethat are already there, who are
like sheep without a shepherd,who are losing heart and losing
the ability to legitimatelyconnect with Jesus and find out
what the transformed life issupposed to be.
And we got a bunch of peopledown there who are like
conservatives and they think,because I voted red, obviously
(34:55):
Jesus loves me.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
You know they're.
That is what is killing us.
They're going to potlucks afterchurch and hanging out and they
have that community, butthey're spiritually starving to
death.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
Yeah Well, and even even in conversations, even the
community piece isn't happening.
They'll go on a Sunday morningand check the box and then their
life outside of Sunday lookstotally different than what they
do on Sunday mornings andthat's not different than most
of the church.
I just think it's in aparticularly strategic area that
you do not want to lose.
But yeah, I mean, I've beengoing down there and talking to
(35:25):
one lady and she was like Istarted in this Baptist church
over here, I tried this churchover here, and then she
literally just sighed and waslike, honestly, I'm just lost
right now.
She's like I would love to finda place to go where I can like
be myself and grow in myrelationship with God, but I
just don't know where that is.
And I'm sitting there like wegot to get down here, we've got
(35:45):
to get this thing off the groundand get it going.
But as I've been looking atthis text, him, all I'm seeing
is God showing a need, godgiving me a heart and a
compassion for what's actuallygoing on, him calling me to pray
, him bringing a group togetherand, as we're taking
responsibility, I really believethat God's going to give us
spiritual authority to go downthere and really kick the
(36:07):
darkness in the teeth and myheart.
Ultimately, tim, is to wake upthe sleeping giant that is
lethargic Christianity.
Part of my ministry has beenagain grabbing three or four
guys and just getting people tosee what God is doing.
Begin to pour into those peopleand watch transformation happen
.
Look, if you want to reach thelost, start with raising up the
(36:30):
found.
If you want to reach the lost,actually make disciples, don't
just hire them.
If you want to reach the lost,you actually have to be the
catalyst for God'stransformative work in
somebody's life by the Spirit.
And I think so many of us arelooking for event Christianity,
which happens on Sundays, buthave no clue what it looks like
(36:51):
to actually not live like theworld the rest of the week
outside of just don't do badthings, do good things.
You know, there's got to be adifference, there's got to be a
vitality to it.
The rest of the week, outsideof just don't do bad things, do
good things.
There's got to be a difference,there's got to be a vitality to
it.
There's got to be a commitmentto it, a conviction.
And I'll tell you, tim, it iseasy to choose looking faithful
(37:11):
over actually exercising faith.
It's easy to do things thatused to be hard for you and miss
out on things that are actuallysteps of faith.
Right now and so many peopleare like I will I'd rather look
faithful to other people thanactually have to take steps of
faith now, and because of that,they're missing what God has
called them to.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's always a thought I have.
Actually, it's like I couldfake being a Christian so easily
.
I could speak the Christianeseso well.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Well, you know, yeah yeah, it's, it's easy to.
It's easy to pretend.
I mean, I think we talked alittle bit about the rich young
ruler, um, earlier on, but hiswhole story is going to jesus.
God, I'm doing all the rightthings, what else do I need to
inherit the kingdom?
And jesus is like you know whatyou lack, you're too
comfortable.
Yeah, come with me, get rid ofyour stuff.
I want you to follow me.
And he's's like hey, I didn'tknow you were going to ask me to
(37:58):
have faith.
I didn't know you were going toask me to actually make
decisions.
That would mean I have to trustyou and rely on you.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Don't be absurd.
It's one of the insurance ofeternal life.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
Yeah, and that guy walks away and Jesus doesn't go
after him and all of us are likewhat?
But tell him to attend onSunday?
Look, yes, I love ResurrectionSunday.
I love the celebration that wehave in the church.
I love covenant, I lovesacraments and worship and
preaching.
All those things are gloriousbut they mean nothing if it
(38:28):
isn't transforming hearts andlives and winning over actual
people to the fullness of whoChrist has called them to be in
the gospel actual people to thefullness of who Christ has
called them to be in the gospel.
And I just feel like Tim in alot of ways we've become
addicted to an eventChristianity that looks a lot
like our culture and, ironically, if it looks a lot like your
culture, it probably can't bringa lot of transformation to your
(38:50):
culture.
And when fads come and fads go,if people are coming and going
with those fads, then you'redoing something wrong.
Numbers don't always meansuccess in these areas.
It just might mean you're agreat event coordinator.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Lord knows, we need good event coordinators but that
can't be the substance of whatit is.
Speaker 2 (39:10):
Hey, heaven's going to be bright and noisy.
I'm not a fan of fog machines.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Your church gets fog machines, I ain't going.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Yeah, fair enough, fair enough but if it's the
shekinah glory of god, okay, tim, it'll be fine, you know.
And then we're all leavingbecause, uh, like, uh, um like,
like it happened in solomon'sday, you know, they decided to
get out of the temple because itwas so thick.
That was fun, all right yeah,yeah, yeah but it's been.
It's been wild man and, um, asI've been praying through this
(39:37):
and walking through stuff andjust trying to really try to get
my feet under me with what Godis calling me to do, it
feels—I've been quoting Lord ofthe Rings a lot to myself it's a
dangerous business, frodo,going out your door, stepping
onto the road.
If you don't keep your feet,there's no knowing where you
might be swept off to.
I just keep thinking it's like,yeah, there's this reality
(40:04):
where it's like going outside isdangerous.
Actually, taking steps of faithis hard and actually trusting
Jesus is going to make you lookvery different than what the
average bear is doing.
And I think we've become alittle bit like hobbits, you
know, not fond of adventures.
Really like the stuff that wehave, really like creating
community where you know we'rehappy here.
Really like the stuff that wehave Really like creating
community we're you know we'rehappy here.
But don't ask me to go anywhereand do anything.
In fact, we frown upon it whenpeople do and we'll probably try
to talk you out of it and Iwould say that is not.
(40:25):
That is not what God is callingus into.
There is a dragon, there is awar.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (40:34):
other quote you what you're talking about?
Speaker 3 (40:37):
uh, it does you no good to leave a dragon out of
your calculations if?
Speaker 2 (40:41):
you live, you live near one, yeah, that's what it
was and, uh, I just think, um,it's time for it's time for
people to come out of the hobbitholes and uh, and actually get
onto the road and start doingsome of the things that christ
has called them to do.
And look, this is not a, thisis not a drive-by guilting for
anybody who is faithful andserving and doing all the things
.
I praise God for you andhopefully, if you're that person
(41:02):
, you already know, like you'realready in the fight.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
You're already doing it.
Speaker 2 (41:05):
That's great, but I do have a large concern that a
lot of people have stoppedtaking steps of faith and have
justified it by looking faithfulto other people instead, and
it's not the same thing.
Speaker 3 (41:19):
Well, it goes back to your next step.
Of faith is always the hardest,step of faith is always the
next one.
And so if you find yourselfliving that comfortable, easy
life where nothing is hard,nothing is difficult, I mean
that's a really good indicatorthat you've stopped taking those
steps of faith.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Yeah, and I mean, let's be honest, in this same
text, in verse 16, he saysbehold, I send you out a sheep
in the midst of wolves.
So be shrewd as serpent andinnocent as doves Like do the
right things, but be thoughtful,be calculated in what I'm
calling you to do and how youwant to get it done.
And I think it's.
I think it's important that wedo that stuff.
I think it's important that wedo that stuff.
So everything we've been doingup to this point, man has been
(42:04):
cool.
I'm going to try to take thepassion and the conviction for
King's Banner that God hasplaced on my heart and I want to
champion this.
I'm going to go run after itand God is bringing people
together around this that arewanting to take responsibility
and prayerfully step into thisministry.
I'm trying to take a lot of thecontent that God has put on my
heart and start putting somebooks out.
I want to take this podcast andI want to amplify it.
God has used it, tim, and it'sreached a ton of people and we
(42:25):
haven't really been able to dothat much with it other than
just try to be consistent, andwe haven't even been great at
that.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
This year has been the hardest, I think, to be
consistent, it's been crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
And in a lot of ways, I think it's because God has
been moving the cloud for me.
Yeah, you know, when you startgetting pulled in a different
direction, it can be hard to putthings together, but now that I
see things coming together, Ithink it's going to be a great
opportunity to take the stuffthat we've been doing and turn
it up a little bit, have somefun with it and trust that God's
going to go, bring revival andhope and joy and, ultimately,
(42:57):
generations of faithful people.
I'm praying that when thebreath leaves my lungs and the
grip leave my hands, there'sgoing to be something awesome
going on that I will no longerhave anything to do with,
because God is using otherfaithful people to continue to
carry it and use it to plantother churches, raise up other
pastors, establish godlyfamilies, heal marriages, set
(43:17):
people free from addictions, setpeople free from faithless
lives and actually put people onmission in a covenant community
where worship of Jesus Christis central and living in faith
is a byproduct, and I'm fired upabout it.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Awesome.
Well, thanks, dude.
Yeah, I'm excited to telleverybody man.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
I feel like we've talked about bringing it up on
the podcast.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
A couple of times and just been waiting a little bit.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
I think Casey's going to be involved in future
podcasts.
He's going to be helping us getstuff off the ground a little
bit when we're in Tyler, andthen Tim's going to continue to
be his lovely self, because weneed that sweet, deep voice you
got bro.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
That's true.
You can't have the podcastwithout Tim we are not.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Uh, I would say this we're not subtracting anything.
Goal is that we're adding stuff.
And again, for those of youguys that want to uh the give to
what we're doing as a churchKings bannerorg we would love
for you to donate.
Every dollar you give right nowis really helping, going to the
foundation of what we're doingwith this church.
You get to kind of help buildit right now financially, which
(44:19):
is cool.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Uh, I'll have it in the description the your website
for your church, perfect, anduh, if you guys have questions,
email us.
Uh, we have a send a text thingon there.
Oh yeah, but just so peopleknow, I I just literally get the
city and the state that youtexted from.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
That's helpful.
You gotta put some info onthere.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
Yeah, so if you want questions answered, uh, email us
.
Yeah, that's in the descriptionas well.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
And uh, on the website as well, you can sign up
.
There's like a monthlynewsletter that'll go out and
I'll keep you posted on uh, uh,new podcasts that are coming out
, updates on book stuff that'shappening, updates on what's
going on with the church, andtry to keep you guys in the loop
with everything going on.
But I want to echo what Timsaid Super grateful for you guys
that have been consistentlisteners and paying attention
to everything that we've beendoing on this podcast.
(45:07):
In a big way you've kind ofbeen part of our ministry and
what God's been doing through usand we really appreciate you
and we spend time praying foryou actually before every single
podcast.
So, uh, pray that uh, Godcontinues to bless you guys and
use this to um, to, to, to toraise up God's banner everywhere
we go.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Amen Amen.
Right on All right.
Casey, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
No problem, thanks for having me.
Thanks for carrying this downto Texas the navigate banner
right next to the Kings banner.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
Well, just below it.
Speaker 3 (45:35):
That's going to be a ton of fun.
Speaker 1 (45:39):
It's been half mass the whole time.
It's like no something's wrong.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
Oh my word, we have so much to go over.
But all right, you guys arefantastic, love you all, hope
you all have an amazing week.
Yeah, catch you all next time,all right?
Speaker 1 (45:53):
See ya.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.