March 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Tjbhpodcast@gmail.com
Today I discuss with Justin something I have been thinking through. When doing what is right is a constant pressure and hard to do. Where can we get comfort in knowing that fighting through the hard times is worth it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
We are back, justin's back.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Back again.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm back.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Tell a friend.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's been a minute.
I'm happy we still do these.
I'm just really tired of notbeing consistent with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know, tim it's really hard, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Both of us Like it's not.
I can't just blame, you know.
You know, Tim, it's really hard, it's a problem.
Both of us Like it's not.
I can't just blame you now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know yeah, before I could.
No, I can't.
So yeah, it sucks, that's life.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
That's life, but we are coming off of our wow, it's
been that long.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Ten Commandments, oh yeah, yeah, the oh yeah yeah,
the Ten Commandments we did.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I hope that was good.
We got a lot of feedback fromthat it was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun.
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I think we're using talk to the guy who's doing some
curriculum for our kids stuffand he told me he was taking the
podcast and using some andapplying it with teaching our
kids and I was like that'sfreaking awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
The Ten Commandments, part yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Having fun getting after it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
my brother.
You know how I like to come upwith some life lessons for
myself.
Yeah, that aren't reallyprobably Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This resembles an anime episode I saw more than
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We had one called Embrace the Suck right when
Jesus stresses you out one wehad.
Spiritual Life is a life offailure.
You can go back and listen tothose.
It's not what you think.
It's better, it's not that bad,it's not that bad, but I got to
come up with these processesbecause it helps me figure stuff
out, yeah, so I have a new onefor you.
I want to see what you think.
(01:36):
I kind of want to get intosomething else too through it.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Life sucks.
Living is hard, okay.
This has been my motto sinceI've had kids, and this is why I
come up with this.
It sounds like.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Jordan Peterson I live, life is suffering.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It's amazing you're not more anxious.
Well, I mean, there's sometruth there.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Go ahead and get to what you were going to say.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, so I have a small apartment right, and when
we had our first daughter it waseasy because she didn't move
much, yeah, and then she startedcrawling.
I was like, oh crap, this kindof changes a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Because now it's getting hard.
Didn't get used to that, yeah.
And then she starts walking.
It's like, oh, this is all newchallenge.
Now this is hard, you know.
And then get used to that.
Then you have another one.
Now you have one who walks andone who's just now starting to
crawl.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Challenges, changes.
It's hard, it's hard to kind ofkeep up with all this stuff in
life, right?
So when I say living is hard,like I'm trying to get to this
process of when we're followingChrist all of a sudden, we need
to start making right decisions.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Okay, because you find out that they're more
important.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah, right.
And when you're not saved, lifesucks, right.
Remember we used to have thesaying all the time life sucks,
then you die.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Then we got saved and we're like, no, that's probably
not accurate anymore.
It might be accurate, but Ifeel like we're not allowed to
say it yeah, but life still canfeel like it sucks, but when
you're saved, it's no longerthat it sucks.
Is that it's hard?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
yeah, I think about lewis's quote on this.
He said, uh, die now, therewill be no chance after you know
.
It's like this Either youacknowledge and deal with the
reality of your own fallen andbroken state now and kneel to
Christ like allow yourself todie, or you live for yourself,
(03:38):
you abandon all theresponsibilities you're supposed
to have and you really dielater, truly ultimately in an
awful way.
And there's I mean the wholelike take up your cross daily
thing, man.
It's real.
Yeah, it's a real thing.
Like I gotta believe Jesuspulled himself off of his mat
(04:01):
you know what I mean some daysand was like I don't want to do
this today, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I imagine it was more like I'm never going to have an
easy day here as long as I live.
Yeah, I mean, and me as aperson who's sinful.
I'm like I just want an easylife.
Give me a million dollars andall my problems go away.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think, just I think life, ultimately life is
suffering you.
I think, just I think life,ultimately life is suffering.
I feel like I can't do it.
I'm going to try.
It is To live, to really live,to breathe, to come up above the
surface and not just drownmeans you have to swim, yeah, if
(04:40):
you want the sun in your face,if you actually want to breathe
air and not grow stale and die.
There's this reality ofstraining towards and straining
forward to what God has calledus to.
I mean, in Philippians he talksabout this.
He's like I don't know.
He's like what I do know is I'mgoing to ignore what lies
(05:02):
behind and I'm going to strainforward to the upward call of
Christ Jesus.
That word strain there is thesame word we use for desire in
other portions of the Bible butultimately means to grab at or
grasp for it's like this.
It's almost like it's somethingthat's unattainable but worthy
of your whole life.
(05:22):
Unattainable but worthy of yourwhole life.
You know it's something thatyou can't grip but you
desperately wish you could withyour mortal body.
I mean, we've talked about thisidea before Tim, that we live
in a world that's fallen andbecause of that we're not solid
enough to hold on to things thatare solid.
So if you can imagine yourselfas a wraith or as a ghost, right
(05:48):
, and God pouring living wateronto you, you know what I mean.
And it's this kind of thingwhere it doesn't, it seems good
and it seems nice, but at thesame time it moves right through
you and then you need more.
You can't hold on to it becauseyou and your mortal body can't
hold on to something eternalwith the body that you have.
(06:09):
And it's like the earth itselfthe Bible tells us is crying out
for the sons of God to berevealed and the redemption of
all things.
And so we're caught up in thatof all things.
And so we're caught up in that.
(06:29):
We're caught up in a reallymessy world that I do think is
progressively becoming solid.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But not in my lifetime, bro, not in yours, not
in yours.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And I agree with you, dude I got five kiddos, I got
three dogs.
Somehow that happened tohamsters you know, and, dude, I
love my wife, we love our life,but this last year we had a, we
had a kid in the you know, thePICU and we've had all kinds of
changes and crazy stuff thatwe've been walking through and
(07:00):
dealing with.
And there's days, dude, wherewe we just talked to each other,
to each other, like it's roughright now.
Can we just acknowledge thatit's rough right now?
And I think in verses like John16, 33, where he says, in this
world you're going to havetribulation, and I think we
think like, yeah, those you know, this horrible persecution is
(07:20):
eventually no, like literallythe world is dead and straining
towards life and you, as a partof this world in Christ, are
dead.
But because Christ has placedhis spirit in you and gave you a
new spirit, you in your corpse,body, are going to be straining
(07:41):
towards life but unable to movepast it in the current state
that you're in.
You know, and look, I'm not aGnostic, okay, I'm not like body
bad spirit, good, all right,we're not duelists like that,
but I do acknowledge that thenew spirit that God has given
you makes you a new creationthat God will then clothe with a
(08:04):
resurrected body.
That is actually good.
I don't know if you've thoughtabout this, tim, but why does
God remove the tree of life outof the garden after sin?
What does he kick them out?
We think about it like theysinned and he kicks them out of
the garden like you wickedlosers.
You know what I mean.
You're done.
No, if they eat of the tree oflife in their fallen state, they
(08:26):
will live forever in brokenness.
Oh, okay, right, Like they'llstay that way.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So it was almost a grace to have them die.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, yes, this is Tolkien, man Interesting.
The gift that God gave, thegift that Iluvatar gave to
mankind that he didn't give tothe elves, was the gift of death
.
Like you will not have to existlike this forever.
I will give you somethingbetter.
There is more to come.
That's cool.
I like that.
And so everything we do in life, Tim, ultimately, is.
(08:56):
I feel like I'm constantlyasking this question, but it's
like what will your life say?
What will your bones speakafter you're gone?
And I've been thinking recentlyabout Joseph and how he died in
Egypt, away from his own family.
You know what I mean.
(09:16):
Well, away from the land thathis family came to, knowing that
that is not where they'resupposed to end up.
Yeah, and he tells them take mybones with you when you leave
this place, which is wild,because at that point there's no
, nobody's talking about leaving.
This is the best gig ever.
We have the best land.
You know what I mean.
(09:37):
It's totally fine, but he knowslike this, isn't it?
Yeah, this isn't ultimatelywhere it's going to be, and
demands that take my bones withyou, isn't it?
This isn't ultimately whereit's going to be, and demands
that take, take my bones withyou.
And I think, like that's the,that's the, the tattoo that I
that you know what I mean I wantto get on my body somewhere,
like I want my kids to get thisidea hey, after I'm dead, take
my bones with you.
Remember what I was telling you, what I was trying to
(09:59):
communicate with you.
When suffering happens, whenfrustration happens, I want you
to continue to strain for, gotowards what we will probably
not achieve on this side ofthings, but ultimately will be
achieved through Christ in us.
And so I tend to look at thegrand narrative.
(10:19):
What's the big picture throughthis and what's the significance
of individual moments and howdoes that overflow into victory
in all kinds of different areas?
Man, but yeah, to live is tochoose to die every single day
to the thing that we wish, theway that we wish things were and
(10:42):
the hopes that we had aboutthis particular thing or that
particular thing.
One of my favorite John Piperquotes.
He says weep for the life youwish you had, wipe your tears,
get up and trust God.
Right, and I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I think about that a lot too.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I don't know if I was raised this way, dude, and I
know I've talked about this overthe years with you Like I just
want to be somebody good,awesome.
You know, like I want to bespecial Not famous or anything
but accomplish a lot of things.
And you know where we work.
They're starting to schoolstuff now, right, so I literally
went home to my wife and I waslike well, I'm officially a
(11:19):
school janitor now, you know, Iwas like you proud, you proud.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
No, I am.
Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You know, but there's something in me who's always
wanted to be somebody.
You know what I mean, and it'sa hard mindset to get out of.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I think there's a.
There's two kinds of mindsets.
One is like a poverty mentalityand one is like a prosperity
mentality.
And christianity plants itselffirmly in between.
Poverty mentality is christiansshould have nothing, life is
only suffering, and if you actlike it's not, you're denying
christ.
That's a problem, right?
(11:57):
All right, david platt, at hischurch, famously in the name of
missions, took the goldfish outof the kids' Sunday school rooms
, trying to save money formission.
All right, that might be cool,man, but give the kids their
goldfish.
You know what I mean.
Come on Right, stuff like thatand then like Piper sometimes I
(12:24):
think is a little bit more onthis side of things.
Where it's like man, it'sreally rigid.
Stewardship is great, it'simportant.
I also think it's important tomultiply what God has given us
and it's okay to like, it's okayif God blesses you in the
process.
Our world today if somebody isblessed, we're like you must be
a sinner, you did somethingwrong.
Somebody's blessed, we're likeyou must be a sinner, you did
(12:46):
something wrong.
But in the Old Testament or inthe Bible and history, we look
at somebody.
If they were good people andthey were wealthy, we're like
yeah, god blessed them.
But if it happens to somebodywe know we're like that's not
blessing.
You're evil right which tells ussomething about what's inside
of us.
But this prosperity mindset isthat well, if I just do the
right things, everything will goperfectly well for me.
(13:10):
And you need to be carefulabout defining blessing in a
different way than how the Bibledefines blessing right, that
whole makarios happiness in theGreek.
Blessed are those who hungerand thirst for righteousness,
blessed are those who mourn.
Blessed are like that word islike literally, is like happy,
but even deeper it's supposed tomean like full of God, has God,
and I think we that's whatblessed, that's what you're
(13:33):
saying.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
blessed means Blessed Makarios.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the Greek is makarios, butthe deeper like connection there
is, literally to be full of God, to have God Blessed, are those
who have, who are walkingthrough this and struggling
through this.
What does it mean?
Well, at some level it meansyou're walking through and have
something.
I'm trying to think about howto frame this in a way where I'm
(13:57):
not I'm trying not to beheretical here okay, but if you
do things and walk throughthings that God himself walked
through, then you uniquely getto identify with him in those
things in a way that others donot.
You have more, let's say,relationship with God if you
have walked through the thingsthat he has walked through in
(14:18):
the way that he calls you towalk through them.
All right, jesus walked throughsin and brokenness and mess,
but he didn't sin.
He continued to do the rightthing.
That is the hardest thing.
Right?
It's not the going through thehard thing, it's doing the right
thing when you go through thehard thing.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Especially going through hard times, it's so much
easier to sin.
I'm not up for fighting anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So if you don't, if you choose life, what you just
had is Macarius.
You just became, let's say,full of God.
You're blessed how you justbecame more connected with God,
uniquely in your circumstance.
You know him now in a way thatyou did not before, because you
walked through something thatChrist walked through.
(15:02):
Obviously, this is spelled out alittle bit in Hebrews when it
talks about him being in thesame way, yet without sin, right
, like he's tested in all theways that we are, but he didn't
sin.
And when we do those samethings and you wake up and you
breathe out and you're like Idon't want to do this today, but
I'm going to do this today.
Right, there's something of Godin that and as Christians, it's
(15:23):
supposed to fuel us a little,supposed to help us think
through, like okay, no, this isthe way, this is it, but you're
going to, you can't go into thisprosperity, everything should
be fine.
I heard somebody one time quotegosh I think it's Hosea 4.6, I
think where he says my peopleperish for a lack of knowledge.
And he was a prosperitypreacher and he was basically
(15:45):
like the only reason that peoplestruggle is because they just
don't know that God wants tobless them.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And if they understood who God was.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
They would never have sickness, they would never have
financial problems, they wouldnever have any of these issues.
And I'm like, yeah, theywouldn't have nailed Jesus to
the cross if he could have justbelieved a little bit more,
wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
have nailed Jesus to the cross if he could have just
believed a little bit more,right.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Right Idiot.
You know it drives me freakinginsane.
I've heard so many like wackoapproaches to theology before.
But yeah, tim, I mean thevictory that we have in Christ
is ultimately a victory over sinand death.
Christ has accomplished thevictory over sin, but the Bible
says the last enemy to bedestroyed is death.
And ultimately, what you arefighting against and I am
fighting against, and the reasonfor suffering, is that the
(16:34):
world is not done trying to killJesus and the world is not
officially, let's say, conquereddeath.
In time, christ has ultimatelyconquered those things, but
that's the last thing to bedestroyed.
Like I frequently ask thequestion in the past, how come,
if God has given me a new spiritand he's caused my spirit to
(16:57):
cohabitate?
You know me and you know this.
The Holy Spirit is in me,testifying to my spirit that I'm
a child of God and allows me tocry out to God and I'm like
awesome.
And it's this rejuvenatingforce that changes the way that
I think and the way that Iprocess.
I'm a new creation.
Why doesn't it go all the wayand then transform my disgusting
(17:17):
body into something with asix-pack?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Like, logically, I feel like that it would make
more sense for it to continue.
But if you realize that yourprocess is the same process as
all the world, where the lastenemy to be destroyed is death,
and it's actually so that youdon't stay in an eternal state
with the fallen nature, thebrokenness that you carry, god's
mercy is inviting you into,let's say, the final death, so
(17:45):
that you can have real life inthe way that you were meant to
have it.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, interesting, kind of a wild concept.
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I was thinking I guess, runthis by you, why not?
I used to think the things thathad mattered in the past is
what led me here.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I would agree with that, but I don't necessarily
think that's what I am wantingto think like anymore.
I want to think like I'm herebecause of what's ahead of me
now.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Because God says live for the day.
Today's the day right, promisesgood things tomorrow and
blessings every morning.
Like there's always thisconcept in the Bible, I think
that it has to do with tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah or starting afresh today.
Luke 9, tim.
It tells us Jesus makes thispoint.
He basically says that nobodywho puts his hand to the plow
and looks back is fit forservice.
And I think there's a realtruth there.
You can't really drive the car.
You know what I mean.
You can't get drive the car.
(18:45):
You know what I mean?
You can't get where you'regoing, staring in the rearview
mirror the entire time.
Yeah, and sometimes people aretrying to divine their futures
by looking at their past andlook.
Sometimes you can learn a lotabout yourself, and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh yeah, that's not what I'm saying, but I find
myself looking back to when youand I got saved and how fun that
was with you know, jeremy, backin the day and everything, yeah
, and I feel like there's days.
I'm just trying to reconnectwith my old self that way.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Dude, I remember.
But so much of it was exciting.
I remember praying for this guyand his nose stopped bleeding.
You know what I mean.
I was like God did it.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It was amazing and yes he did, you know what I mean
.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Like there's a sense to that.
But also it was the smallthings, I think, where you began
to see it's not all death anddestruction and brokenness, it's
not just life sucks and thenyou die.
Oh, there's life mixed into allof this.
It's not just pure death now.
(19:42):
Wow, it's not just pure death.
Now You're beginning to see thespark of life and the beauty
that things are supposed to be,that you maybe didn't have eyes
for before.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, it's a belief thing Because, to bring up your
example, it's like, oh God didthat.
But there's also parts nowwhere I'm like did God do that,
or that was just coincidencethere.
Do I believe coincidence?
I don't know.
Do I believe you, kind of go?
Down this rabbit trail in yourown brain.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah Well, and that's the funny thing is, we try to
create like the dualism right,like either there was a natural
cause there or God did that.
I'm like, why is it different?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I don't want to be wrong if it was not God, because
then it feels like a falsefaith.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But Tim this is my point there's nothing that
exists that is disconnected fromGod.
So the Bible says that he holdseverything together by the word
of his power.
Right?
That means the molecules thatmake up Tim Brown, the quarks
(20:48):
and their half-lives, theelectron that is spinning around
the atom.
What keeps it from spinning offliterally into nothingness?
God's word.
So right now and now, and nowyou're alive because God's word
is holding you together.
I find that fascinating.
(21:09):
And then we're like wait, butdid this happen because of God
or just because of nature?
And I'm like that's some doolishnonsense that actually the
Bible doesn't have a category,for we're over here trying to
like, parse the two and be likeoh, this has nothing to do with
this, that's just foolish.
That's just foolish, that'sjust stupid.
I hate to say it, but peopleare, like you know, lazarus
(21:31):
coming back from the dead.
That was a miracle, right?
Yeah?
Did his heart start beatingagain?
Yes, so.
Was it natural?
Well, that doesn't normallyhappen, could it happen?
Have we brought people?
Yeah, but usually not like that, right?
So, if it started, is thatnatural or not natural?
Well, it happened in thenatural, but something
(21:52):
supernatural caused it, right?
Like everything else ever.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Well, as a little dad he was just asleep To my still
To this day I'm like where didhe go for those four days?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
you know where did he go?
Dude, I would love it.
You know was he like?
Was he, you know, in likeabraham's?
You know, bosom, the luke 16paradise idea.
You know, I didn't mean to justget sucked back down into his
body.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He's like oh, this see, I heard that lazarus and
jesus were friends and then,after jesus brought him back,
he'd never hear about him again.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
They're not friends anymore, he's like you did this
to me, you, you, you you didn'tsave my life, you ruined my
death, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Totally, totally.
All right, let me get into thekind of the second part of this.
Okay, cause I think what yousaid, was really cool to get out
of this cycle of just livinghard right, like not believing
that it's just going to behunky-dory and roses and daisies
.
But one thing I found hashelped me and I really want to
know what you think is findingvalidation.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Whether that's being a father, husband, employee,
employer, whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Is it a sinful to pursue validation from others?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I think I'm trying to .
I guess I'm trying tounderstand.
By this do you mean somebodyaffirming that you're not wrong,
Like just saying, yes, you didthe right thing?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I want to bring up the dualism aspect again.
It's like everything is God.
I want to be validated in that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I'm over here like hey, not everything is God.
What he meant was everythingthat happens.
God is a part of.
God is a part of yes.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yes, no, when you?
I guess.
Let me bring it here.
You know the story of Zacchaeusyeah, the wee little man, the
yeah, the wee little man.
And the wee little man, yeah,which I don't believe he
actually was, but that's not thepoint.
But he starts to tell Jesusfrom this tree hey, I've given
to the poor, I've sold all mystuff, I'm treating people
better.
And Jesus literally looks athim and is like I'm staying with
you tonight, like to me that'svalidation.
(23:55):
It's like, oh good.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
The things I heard.
That's interesting because Idon't know that that story is
the story that I would like pickLike.
Let me take you down thewormhole for a second.
I am a Calvinist, yeah, okay,and so many of the questions
that we deal with Tim are likehuge sovereignty, human
responsibility question.
So forgive me if I'm likecannibalism that will pond again
that we have sat in togetheruntil it became a swamp.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
That's fine.
I think the same thing couldmean the same thing.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm context, but when the Bible says no one is good,
not one.
I don't think that anybody didanything and God was like and
that's why I did this for you.
So like when Zacchaeus is inthe tree or it's like did he do
the right things or was this thecorrect?
No, none of it was right.
(24:55):
He's not good, none of it.
Literally, god saved us becausehe's awesome, right, and he's
good.
It's a very spiritual aspect,well all I'm trying to say, like
it almost should help youbreathe out for a second, though
, because if you justacknowledge, yeah, no, I'm not,
I probably screwed that up, itprobably wasn't great, you know
(25:15):
what I mean.
Like yeah, what word do youhave?
Where God's going to be likeyou know what, buddy, I'm so
proud of you, you did such agood job when it's not like
finger paintings on dad's truck.
You know what I mean and he'sjust being nice about it.
I don't know.
And look, I don't mean to saythat you can't do things in
Christ that are good and fromthe spirit and all that stuff.
(25:36):
What helps me, tim, is justremembering that it is not my
decisions or what I have done.
Those are not the reasons.
God loves me, right, and that,like, helps me breathe out a lot
.
Now let me give you the flipside.
I guess I would say.
It seems to me that, because youhave an accuser, there is a
(25:59):
biblical reason or right tovalidation, all right.
So if you have someone that isaccusing you, validation in some
sense is affirming that no, Iam, I am or I did, I was.
It seems to be more associatedwith identity than moments.
Moments are frail and you knowcircumstances and everything's
(26:24):
caught up and everything else,and I don't believe that we're
able to make decisions, totallyapart from some of the you know
the fallen world that we live inand are a part of right.
So many situations it's likewhat is the right thing to do?
I don't know.
I need wisdom.
I got to trust God because itall feels right and it all feels
very wrong.
You know, like there's juststuff like that.
(26:45):
I think the validation that weneed more deeply is ultimately
about our own identity in Christ, and every moment I think we're
asking the question less did Ido the right thing?
More am I the right person?
Am I the right person for thisjob?
(27:05):
Is what I'm doing wrong andthat's why it's not
accomplishing what I think it'ssupposed to accomplish?
And there's a grand narrativein Scripture where I don't think
we realize that is literallythe work of Satan is to get
Christians to think that thereis more, or they missed out or
somehow they're not doing theright thing.
(27:27):
Or like, yeah, you screwed thisup, because if you did this
better, you wouldn't be in thesituation that you're in and all
this different stuff.
And I mean Jesus got temptedthat way, right, yeah, he's in
the garden like hey.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I don't want to do this.
Yeah, there's another way.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It'd be cool in the desert, right?
He's asking him if you're theson of God, do this, do this?
The question really ultimatelybecomes in every circumstance we
ask ourselves like am I trulywhere I'm supposed to be?
Is this right, is this right?
And Isaiah 54, 17, I quote allthe time.
But it's this incrediblepromise to me.
(28:08):
He says no weapon that isfashioned against you will
succeed.
And we're like well, that seemsincorrect.
Well, let's break it down, allright, and you shall refute
every tongue that rises againstyou in judgment.
And you're like cool, justin,but that's talking about the
children of Israel.
This is the heritage of theservants of the Lord and their
(28:28):
vindication, or validation, ifyou wanted to say it that way.
Tim is from me, the Lord.
So this promise here is really apromise to those who are the
children of God, not just thepeople of Israel.
I mean.
Earlier on he's like all yourchildren shall be taught by the
Lord.
The great shall be the peace ofyour child and righteousness.
(28:51):
You should be established.
You'll be far from oppression.
All this different stuff.
It's really cool, butultimately he's trying to say
okay, no weapon that isfashioned against you will
succeed in taking you off thecourse that god has planned and
the work that god is doing andthe person that god is making
you to be in your life.
This should beg the questionwhen Goliath stands against
(29:19):
David, did he do something wrong?
Goliath, yeah, no, david, Imean Goliath.
You could ask the question thesame way, did Goliath?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
do something wrong.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Or was he ordained for that too?
You know, a whole notherquestion.
And again, I'm not trying tomake it too abstract because I
know, like Tim, my goal in thisis always to, like, get us up
into heaven a little, and yourgoal is always to pull our feet
right back down to the ground.
And I love it.
It's a good dynamic.
But when I think about thistext, ultimately what it's
saying is that if you're facingsomething and you're feeling the
(29:52):
breath of the accuser on yourneck, it's probably a good
evidence that you are validatedin what you're doing, that there
is vindication for you when youwalk with Christ.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
that Macario blessing that, no, I'm going to trust
and walk with the Lord.
There's still thisresponsibility that we have,
along with that verse right.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, well, and every story tells a story, right.
So like, uh, the israelites didnothing.
Could they have done something?
Hypothetically, yes, did they?
No.
Was it part of their story tonot do something?
Yes, could they have donesomething?
Yes, um, their story speaks tous about how we want our story
to be, and the accuser willalways be telling you you're in
(30:35):
the wrong spot, you're doing thewrong thing, you're not this,
you're not that, and alwaystends to validate you when
you're doing the wrong things.
Don't challenge the giant, noway.
Oh, come on, only a fool, wouldyou know how to be like?
There's always that spectrum ofencouragement and
discouragement in thesedifferent places, and I don't
know when I read this verse andit says no weapon that is
(30:56):
fashioned against you willsucceed.
I would take this to mean thatanything that you actually come
against, whether you perceive itas it's succeeding against you
or not, and Christ does not,because God will have his way
and bring about what he'ssupposed to through this, and
the fact that Jesus says youwill have suffering, there are
going to be problems, there isgoing to be some pain, tells me
(31:18):
that it's written into yourstory.
I mean, philippians 2 says, oris it Philippians 1?
It says it is granted to you,on behalf of Christ, that you
would suffer with him.
Hate that, okay, but granted,what do you mean?
Granted you mean?
I mean given is one thing, butgranted is like you're welcome.
(31:41):
But if we're to know Christ, ifwe're to understand the greater
story that we're a part of, weshould know that no weapon that
was formed against Christsucceeded.
And because Christ is now in me, I can trust that taking up my
cross daily is not me dealingwith failures and problems, but
ultimately, the new spirit thatis in me, because Christ has
(32:04):
given me a new one and hisindwelling spirit can testify
that no, I'm a child of God.
And all of these negativevoices, all these things that
come against my, my mentalityand how I'm living, ultimately I
will be vindicated in thepresence of God and he will.
He will cancel out those debtshimself for those who are in
(32:25):
Christ and and call it accordingto his purpose.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Right, right, and it really comes from if we're
living life hard, in thoseseasons where it just sucks, you
know, yeah, I want to bevalidated in that, knowing that
I'm still doing the right thing,that I'm on the right track
here, yeah, and I'm steadyingthe course here, yeah.
So, to bring it, it can getweird, because you have James
(32:48):
talking about a man with doubtis just, you know, two-minded
and back and forth in the waves.
I'm like dang, I'm that guy alot.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So let's bring it back down to the ground.
Were the decisions that youmade made in faith?
Were the decisions that youmade made in wisdom?
Were the decisions that youmade made in obedience?
I would say, if you can answer,you might add one more Were the
decisions that you made made inlove?
Right, which could fall underthe category of obedience?
(33:16):
But ultimately, if you're doingthose things and you're getting
punched in the mouth, praiseGod Like I don't know, but it's
been granted to you.
It's like you're welcome.
God's like take this, this isgood, this is a good thing.
I know it doesn't feel good inthe moment, but this is
(33:37):
accomplishing something, it'sdoing something and feeling God,
but I feel like a janitor.
Good Right, this is doingsomething.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Well then there's always that thing people say in
church.
It's like well, when you die,it would all be revealed to you
as to why things happened, youknow.
So I'm like, really so I haveto just live as best I can, even
though I feel like I'm justcrap all the time.
And then, when I get to heaven,oh, that's why I did this.
Think about it this way I don'tlive like that either.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I don't think it's that way.
I don't think it's that way,all right, so I brought this up
in the past.
Resurrected with scars, hecomes back in his resurrected
body with holes in his hands.
Seems strange, Unless the marksthat we bear from the struggle
that we walk through areactually medals of honor in the
(34:24):
kingdom, okay so.
So think about it this way whenyou get to heaven, there's not
going to be like, hey, now let'ssit down and I'm going to prove
to everyone, in front ofeveryone else, every
circumstance so that you can sithere and be like ha see, right?
No, instead, you get a robethrown over your shoulders and
you get a crown placed on yourhead and then you judge the
(34:45):
angels.
Okay, so it's not as thoughyou're sitting here trying to
figure it out.
It's more like I'm goingthrough life trusting that what
he said was the case.
And when I get to the otherside and I'm given my crown and
I'm placed at his table and I'mcalled to judge the angels, it
(35:06):
won't be a question, it will bevindication, not because we had
to go through every circumstance, but because the crown is on
your head and the Lord Christhas given it to you himself.
That, to me, is and again, whyis that important?
Because the moment-to-momentthing isn't the biggest deal.
The most important thing is theidentity that you're given, and
(35:26):
if Christ says you're a prince,then I am a prince, that I am a
prince If Christ says that notongue that is set against me
will prevail and that everyenemy that is fast against me
will not succeed, then I'm goingto live like.
This is exactly the way.
If I continue to do and walk asChrist did is I would continue
(35:50):
to live in that blessing.
In that the word of shalomliterally means you know, people
say shalom.
I mean like, hey, peace, peacebe upon you.
But ultimately it means as Godwills it.
Like shalom would be like Ihope you walk out exactly God's
plan for your life.
Right, and we can talk abouttangents and hey, when we do
(36:12):
stupid stuff.
Is that cool?
And there's no accusation?
No, but the cool thing is isthe Bible makes it clear that
God punishes his own kids whenthey do that.
He's like this one's mine, I'lltake care of it.
And then even that is why.
Well, what does that mean?
Well, at that point, it's notthe accuser that's condemning
(36:32):
you, it's your own dad tellingyou to get your life together,
which is almost more encouraging, but almost more scary as well.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Well, it's scary trying to figure out between the
two.
It's like is this God?
Are you disappointing me, or isthis just the enemy?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, well, that's what I was talking about earlier
.
You know what I mean.
If you, if you're walkingthrough this process of like
faith, obedience, love, like amI doing the things and wisdom
that God has called me to, andif you're running it through
that spectrum, you're running itthrough the, what you've
learned from the word, what youknow about the Lord and what
he's called you to do, um, Icannot imagine you getting to
(37:06):
heaven and God being like, yeah,you, just you screwed it up.
Really bad, no, because sinultimately is sin of, not not
confusion, but but I, I trulythought I was doing the right
thing, to the best of my ability, to the word that you gave me,
the wisdom that you gave me, thespirit that you gave me.
I walked those things out.
I can't imagine you get toheaven and God's like you idiot,
all of the things that I saidin that particular moment didn't
(37:29):
count for you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Honestly one of my fears when I get to heaven is
not that you know.
Depart from me, worker.
I don't fear that as much as Iused to.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You fear more that you've missed something.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I would fear more of God being like.
Look at the life you could havehad if you would have chosen me
in that circumstance there.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Or look if you would have just come to me during this
time and chose this, then lookwhat would have happened, you
know that's to me as a fearfulthought, tim, let me put it to
you this way I don't think youget to heaven in the splendor
and glory of God with a crown onyour head, a robe on your back,
and get to sit and judge theangels and then are then told
your your fold, your identity,and given whatever your
(38:09):
beautiful purpose is in thateternal state.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
And then you're thinking back on what you missed
.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Well, that would happen before all that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, this happens rightafter you die, all right.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
So I just wrote this into a chapter, tim, but I'm
going to go ahead and say it.
Okay, what is amazing to meabout the burning bush is that
Moses is encountering theholiness of God.
A bush is set on fire.
God is speaking to him out ofthe bush.
He takes off his sandalsbecause he's on holy ground.
Sand from this holy ground isliterally pressing up in between
(38:47):
his toes to make him totallyuncomfortable and not focused on
.
Like you know.
It's not about comfort here,it's not about you.
You are being invaded.
You know what I mean Like.
And then he's telling him I'mgoing to send you, throw your
staff down Look, you know what Imean.
Put your hand in your coat.
Look, you have leprosy.
Now it's gone.
Like the power of God hasdescended in this moment and
(39:11):
Moses is being told I'm sendingyou, and he's in the presence of
the Lord and the first thingthat he's fighting against is
his own inadequacy.
And I get it Like.
I get our tendency when we seeGod is to think about us, but
that's actually the biggerblasphemy.
The tendency when we see Godshouldn't be about to look at
(39:34):
ourselves and our own thinkingand our own stuff.
Our tendency should be tobehold him and worship and
praise and walk out whatever hehas told us to do.
The great scandal in all ofthis although I know it's pious
and popular to stare at yourselfwhen you encounter God, but the
(39:56):
opposite is actually what weshould be doing.
When you encounter God, youstare at him, you focus on him
and you do what he says.
And so, just as we'reprocessing this idea of heaven
and how things roll out, whathappens, I think we're looking
at it through the lens of ourown inadequacy and our sinful
tendencies here.
And I think this idea of noweapon formed against you, every
(40:19):
tongue that condemn you youwill destroy on the last day.
Why?
Because I am a child of God.
When you come into the eternalstate, tim, I don't think there
is an ounce of doubt, regret ormess left in you, because you
are literally a prince in thatkingdom and there is no limp.
You know what I mean.
(40:40):
There's only power from God andlove of the community and being
fully known and fully knowing,and whatever the cost.
On this side of things, paultells us I think it's 2
Corinthians 9, that it pales incomparison.
These light and momentaryafflictions pale in comparison
(41:00):
to eternity and the glory there,and I think we just have to.
We got to remember that Eachmoment is valuable.
Whatever condemning voices I'mhearing, they don't hold water.
If you're walking infaithfulness to Jesus, if you've
made mistakes and you're notwalking in faithfulness to Jesus
, it's the Lord bringing youback to where you should be, and
(41:23):
one day you will breathe out,you will give up this body, uh,
this the last enemy.
Death will be destroyed for youand you will be clothed with a
resurrection body and andinvited into eternity where, um,
I don't even think you're goingto think about this stuff,
except to celebrate, you know,and um, so, whatever we're
walking through now, tim, thelife suffering, you know the,
(41:47):
the whole idea.
It's not wrong, it's.
The problem is that it's halfright and Satan loves to ignore
the refrain that God gives us,which is yes, but God, the
gospel itself, and so we embracethat and we trust him through
it, and in that we find not justour ultimate vindication but
(42:09):
our individual, momentaryvalidation.
So hope that helps.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, that's probably good for time there, but thanks
for going through this Tacklingit.
Yeah, every time before I hitrecord I always say this might
suck.
So we'll just see what happens.
It still might, I don't know.
It was good.
I enjoyed the topic.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And guys praying that today God would put just some
courage in your heart and steelin your spine to walk in the
fullness of who he's called youto be and reach out If you guys
have any topics you want us tocover.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
On that note, there's a new feature with our podcast.
In the description above ouremail address there's a link
that says send a text.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Click on that on your phone, you're able to write in
anything right away.
Only we can see it, you and I.
So yeah, if you guys havequestions off when you're
listening or have something, inmind.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
You want to talk about pictures.
I won't even look at them.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I don't think it's even allowed for pictures.
I hope not, I just have.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I have some sick friends too, that's true, no,
but it's a link.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
If you have anything you want to bring up or any
questions you have right on thetop of your head and you don't
want to type out an email orsomething, just send it right
away.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Absolutely, it'll be pretty fun.
All right guys, great to beback and have an awesome week.
Yeah, catch you all next time.
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
We are back, justin's back.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Back again.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm back.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Tell a friend.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
It's been a minute.
I'm happy we still do these.
I'm just really tired of notbeing consistent with it.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You know, tim it's really hard, it's a problem.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Both of us Like it's not.
I can't just blame, you know.
You know, Tim, it's really hard, it's a problem.
Both of us Like it's not.
I can't just blame you now.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
You know yeah, before I could.
No, I can't.
So yeah, it sucks, that's life.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
That's life, but we are coming off of our wow, it's
been that long.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Ten Commandments, oh yeah, yeah, the oh yeah yeah,
the Ten Commandments we did.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I hope that was good.
We got a lot of feedback fromthat it was a lot of fun.
It was a lot of fun.
I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I think we're using talk to the guy who's doing some
curriculum for our kids stuffand he told me he was taking the
podcast and using some andapplying it with teaching our
kids and I was like that'sfreaking awesome.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
The Ten Commandments, part yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Having fun getting after it.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
What are we talking about today?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
my brother.
You know how I like to come upwith some life lessons for
myself.
Yeah, that aren't reallyprobably Christian.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
This resembles an anime episode I saw more than
the Bible.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
We had one called Embrace the Suck right when
Jesus stresses you out one wehad.
Spiritual Life is a life offailure.
You can go back and listen tothose.
It's not what you think.
It's better, it's not that bad,it's not that bad, but I got to
come up with these processesbecause it helps me figure stuff
out, yeah, so I have a new onefor you.
I want to see what you think.
(01:36):
I kind of want to get intosomething else too through it.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
So Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Life sucks.
Living is hard, okay.
This has been my motto sinceI've had kids, and this is why I
come up with this.
It sounds like.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Jordan Peterson I live, life is suffering.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It's amazing you're not more anxious.
Well, I mean, there's sometruth there.
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Go ahead and get to what you were going to say.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, so I have a small apartment right, and when
we had our first daughter it waseasy because she didn't move
much, yeah, and then she startedcrawling.
I was like, oh crap, this kindof changes a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Because now it's getting hard.
Didn't get used to that, yeah.
And then she starts walking.
It's like, oh, this is all newchallenge.
Now this is hard, you know.
And then get used to that.
Then you have another one.
Now you have one who walks andone who's just now starting to
crawl.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Challenges, changes.
It's hard, it's hard to kind ofkeep up with all this stuff in
life, right?
So when I say living is hard,like I'm trying to get to this
process of when we're followingChrist all of a sudden, we need
to start making right decisions.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Okay, because you find out that they're more
important.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Yeah, yeah, right.
And when you're not saved, lifesucks, right.
Remember we used to have thesaying all the time life sucks,
then you die.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Then we got saved and we're like, no, that's probably
not accurate anymore.
It might be accurate, but Ifeel like we're not allowed to
say it yeah, but life still canfeel like it sucks, but when
you're saved, it's no longerthat it sucks.
Is that it's hard?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
yeah, I think about lewis's quote on this.
He said, uh, die now, therewill be no chance after you know
.
It's like this Either youacknowledge and deal with the
reality of your own fallen andbroken state now and kneel to
Christ like allow yourself todie, or you live for yourself,
(03:38):
you abandon all theresponsibilities you're supposed
to have and you really dielater, truly ultimately in an
awful way.
And there's I mean the wholelike take up your cross daily
thing, man.
It's real.
Yeah, it's a real thing.
Like I gotta believe Jesuspulled himself off of his mat
(04:01):
you know what I mean some daysand was like I don't want to do
this today, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
I imagine it was more like I'm never going to have an
easy day here as long as I live.
Yeah, I mean, and me as aperson who's sinful.
I'm like I just want an easylife.
Give me a million dollars andall my problems go away.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I think, just I think life, ultimately life is
suffering you.
I think, just I think life,ultimately life is suffering.
I feel like I can't do it.
I'm going to try.
It is To live, to really live,to breathe, to come up above the
surface and not just drownmeans you have to swim, yeah, if
(04:40):
you want the sun in your face,if you actually want to breathe
air and not grow stale and die.
There's this reality ofstraining towards and straining
forward to what God has calledus to.
I mean, in Philippians he talksabout this.
He's like I don't know.
He's like what I do know is I'mgoing to ignore what lies
(05:02):
behind and I'm going to strainforward to the upward call of
Christ Jesus.
That word strain there is thesame word we use for desire in
other portions of the Bible butultimately means to grab at or
grasp for it's like this.
It's almost like it's somethingthat's unattainable but worthy
of your whole life.
(05:22):
Unattainable but worthy of yourwhole life.
You know it's something thatyou can't grip but you
desperately wish you could withyour mortal body.
I mean, we've talked about thisidea before Tim, that we live
in a world that's fallen andbecause of that we're not solid
enough to hold on to things thatare solid.
So if you can imagine yourselfas a wraith or as a ghost, right
(05:48):
, and God pouring living wateronto you, you know what I mean.
And it's this kind of thingwhere it doesn't, it seems good
and it seems nice, but at thesame time it moves right through
you and then you need more.
You can't hold on to it becauseyou and your mortal body can't
hold on to something eternalwith the body that you have.
(06:09):
And it's like the earth itselfthe Bible tells us is crying out
for the sons of God to berevealed and the redemption of
all things.
And so we're caught up in thatof all things.
And so we're caught up in that.
(06:29):
We're caught up in a reallymessy world that I do think is
progressively becoming solid.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
But not in my lifetime, bro, not in yours, not
in yours.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And I agree with you, dude I got five kiddos, I got
three dogs.
Somehow that happened tohamsters you know, and, dude, I
love my wife, we love our life,but this last year we had a, we
had a kid in the you know, thePICU and we've had all kinds of
changes and crazy stuff thatwe've been walking through and
(07:00):
dealing with.
And there's days, dude, wherewe we just talked to each other,
to each other, like it's roughright now.
Can we just acknowledge thatit's rough right now?
And I think in verses like John16, 33, where he says, in this
world you're going to havetribulation, and I think we
think like, yeah, those you know, this horrible persecution is
(07:20):
eventually no, like literallythe world is dead and straining
towards life and you, as a partof this world in Christ, are
dead.
But because Christ has placedhis spirit in you and gave you a
new spirit, you in your corpse,body, are going to be straining
(07:41):
towards life but unable to movepast it in the current state
that you're in.
You know, and look, I'm not aGnostic, okay, I'm not like body
bad spirit, good, all right,we're not duelists like that,
but I do acknowledge that thenew spirit that God has given
you makes you a new creationthat God will then clothe with a
(08:04):
resurrected body.
That is actually good.
I don't know if you've thoughtabout this, tim, but why does
God remove the tree of life outof the garden after sin?
What does he kick them out?
We think about it like theysinned and he kicks them out of
the garden like you wickedlosers.
You know what I mean.
You're done.
No, if they eat of the tree oflife in their fallen state, they
(08:26):
will live forever in brokenness.
Oh, okay, right, Like they'llstay that way.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
So it was almost a grace to have them die.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Yes, yes, this is Tolkien, man Interesting.
The gift that God gave, thegift that Iluvatar gave to
mankind that he didn't give tothe elves, was the gift of death
.
Like you will not have to existlike this forever.
I will give you somethingbetter.
There is more to come.
That's cool.
I like that.
And so everything we do in life, Tim, ultimately, is.
(08:56):
I feel like I'm constantlyasking this question, but it's
like what will your life say?
What will your bones speakafter you're gone?
And I've been thinking recentlyabout Joseph and how he died in
Egypt, away from his own family.
You know what I mean.
(09:16):
Well, away from the land thathis family came to, knowing that
that is not where they'resupposed to end up.
Yeah, and he tells them take mybones with you when you leave
this place, which is wild,because at that point there's no
, nobody's talking about leaving.
This is the best gig ever.
We have the best land.
You know what I mean.
(09:37):
It's totally fine, but he knowslike this, isn't it?
Yeah, this isn't ultimatelywhere it's going to be, and
demands that take my bones withyou, isn't it?
This isn't ultimately whereit's going to be, and demands
that take, take my bones withyou.
And I think, like that's the,that's the, the tattoo that I
that you know what I mean I wantto get on my body somewhere,
like I want my kids to get thisidea hey, after I'm dead, take
my bones with you.
Remember what I was telling you, what I was trying to
(09:59):
communicate with you.
When suffering happens, whenfrustration happens, I want you
to continue to strain for, gotowards what we will probably
not achieve on this side ofthings, but ultimately will be
achieved through Christ in us.
And so I tend to look at thegrand narrative.
(10:19):
What's the big picture throughthis and what's the significance
of individual moments and howdoes that overflow into victory
in all kinds of different areas?
Man, but yeah, to live is tochoose to die every single day
to the thing that we wish, theway that we wish things were and
(10:42):
the hopes that we had aboutthis particular thing or that
particular thing.
One of my favorite John Piperquotes.
He says weep for the life youwish you had, wipe your tears,
get up and trust God.
Right, and I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
I think about that a lot too.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
I don't know if I was raised this way, dude, and I
know I've talked about this overthe years with you Like I just
want to be somebody good,awesome.
You know, like I want to bespecial Not famous or anything
but accomplish a lot of things.
And you know where we work.
They're starting to schoolstuff now, right, so I literally
went home to my wife and I waslike well, I'm officially a
(11:19):
school janitor now, you know, Iwas like you proud, you proud.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
No, I am.
Oh my gosh, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You know, but there's something in me who's always
wanted to be somebody.
You know what I mean, and it'sa hard mindset to get out of.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
I think there's a.
There's two kinds of mindsets.
One is like a poverty mentalityand one is like a prosperity
mentality.
And christianity plants itselffirmly in between.
Poverty mentality is christiansshould have nothing, life is
only suffering, and if you actlike it's not, you're denying
christ.
That's a problem, right?
(11:57):
All right, david platt, at hischurch, famously in the name of
missions, took the goldfish outof the kids' Sunday school rooms
, trying to save money formission.
All right, that might be cool,man, but give the kids their
goldfish.
You know what I mean.
Come on Right, stuff like thatand then like Piper sometimes I
(12:24):
think is a little bit more onthis side of things.
Where it's like man, it'sreally rigid.
Stewardship is great, it'simportant.
I also think it's important tomultiply what God has given us
and it's okay to like, it's okayif God blesses you in the
process.
Our world today if somebody isblessed, we're like you must be
a sinner, you did somethingwrong.
Somebody's blessed, we're likeyou must be a sinner, you did
(12:46):
something wrong.
But in the Old Testament or inthe Bible and history, we look
at somebody.
If they were good people andthey were wealthy, we're like
yeah, god blessed them.
But if it happens to somebodywe know we're like that's not
blessing.
You're evil right which tells ussomething about what's inside
of us.
But this prosperity mindset isthat well, if I just do the
right things, everything will goperfectly well for me.
(13:10):
And you need to be carefulabout defining blessing in a
different way than how the Bibledefines blessing right, that
whole makarios happiness in theGreek.
Blessed are those who hungerand thirst for righteousness,
blessed are those who mourn.
Blessed are like that word islike literally, is like happy,
but even deeper it's supposed tomean like full of God, has God,
and I think we that's whatblessed, that's what you're
(13:33):
saying.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
blessed means Blessed Makarios.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the Greek is makarios, butthe deeper like connection there
is, literally to be full of God, to have God Blessed, are those
who have, who are walkingthrough this and struggling
through this.
What does it mean?
Well, at some level it meansyou're walking through and have
something.
I'm trying to think about howto frame this in a way where I'm
(13:57):
not I'm trying not to beheretical here okay, but if you
do things and walk throughthings that God himself walked
through, then you uniquely getto identify with him in those
things in a way that others donot.
You have more, let's say,relationship with God if you
have walked through the thingsthat he has walked through in
(14:18):
the way that he calls you towalk through them.
All right, jesus walked throughsin and brokenness and mess,
but he didn't sin.
He continued to do the rightthing.
That is the hardest thing.
Right?
It's not the going through thehard thing, it's doing the right
thing when you go through thehard thing.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Especially going through hard times, it's so much
easier to sin.
I'm not up for fighting anymore.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
So if you don't, if you choose life, what you just
had is Macarius.
You just became, let's say,full of God.
You're blessed how you justbecame more connected with God,
uniquely in your circumstance.
You know him now in a way thatyou did not before, because you
walked through something thatChrist walked through.
(15:02):
Obviously, this is spelled out alittle bit in Hebrews when it
talks about him being in thesame way, yet without sin, right
, like he's tested in all theways that we are, but he didn't
sin.
And when we do those samethings and you wake up and you
breathe out and you're like Idon't want to do this today, but
I'm going to do this today.
Right, there's something of Godin that and as Christians, it's
(15:23):
supposed to fuel us a little,supposed to help us think
through, like okay, no, this isthe way, this is it, but you're
going to, you can't go into thisprosperity, everything should
be fine.
I heard somebody one time quotegosh I think it's Hosea 4.6, I
think where he says my peopleperish for a lack of knowledge.
And he was a prosperitypreacher and he was basically
(15:45):
like the only reason that peoplestruggle is because they just
don't know that God wants tobless them.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
And if they understood who God was.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
They would never have sickness, they would never have
financial problems, they wouldnever have any of these issues.
And I'm like, yeah, theywouldn't have nailed Jesus to
the cross if he could have justbelieved a little bit more,
wouldn't?
Speaker 1 (16:05):
have nailed Jesus to the cross if he could have just
believed a little bit more,right.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Right Idiot.
You know it drives me freakinginsane.
I've heard so many like wackoapproaches to theology before.
But yeah, tim, I mean thevictory that we have in Christ
is ultimately a victory over sinand death.
Christ has accomplished thevictory over sin, but the Bible
says the last enemy to bedestroyed is death.
And ultimately, what you arefighting against and I am
fighting against, and the reasonfor suffering, is that the
(16:34):
world is not done trying to killJesus and the world is not
officially, let's say, conquereddeath.
In time, christ has ultimatelyconquered those things, but
that's the last thing to bedestroyed.
Like I frequently ask thequestion in the past, how come,
if God has given me a new spiritand he's caused my spirit to
(16:57):
cohabitate?
You know me and you know this.
The Holy Spirit is in me,testifying to my spirit that I'm
a child of God and allows me tocry out to God and I'm like
awesome.
And it's this rejuvenatingforce that changes the way that
I think and the way that Iprocess.
I'm a new creation.
Why doesn't it go all the wayand then transform my disgusting
(17:17):
body into something with asix-pack?
Speaker 1 (17:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Like, logically, I feel like that it would make
more sense for it to continue.
But if you realize that yourprocess is the same process as
all the world, where the lastenemy to be destroyed is death,
and it's actually so that youdon't stay in an eternal state
with the fallen nature, thebrokenness that you carry, god's
mercy is inviting you into,let's say, the final death, so
(17:45):
that you can have real life inthe way that you were meant to
have it.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, interesting, kind of a wild concept.
Yeah, you know it's funny.
I was thinking I guess, runthis by you, why not?
I used to think the things thathad mattered in the past is
what led me here.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
I would agree with that, but I don't necessarily
think that's what I am wantingto think like anymore.
I want to think like I'm herebecause of what's ahead of me
now.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Because God says live for the day.
Today's the day right, promisesgood things tomorrow and
blessings every morning.
Like there's always thisconcept in the Bible, I think
that it has to do with tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah or starting afresh today.
Luke 9, tim.
It tells us Jesus makes thispoint.
He basically says that nobodywho puts his hand to the plow
and looks back is fit forservice.
And I think there's a realtruth there.
You can't really drive the car.
You know what I mean.
You can't get drive the car.
(18:45):
You know what I mean?
You can't get where you'regoing, staring in the rearview
mirror the entire time.
Yeah, and sometimes people aretrying to divine their futures
by looking at their past andlook.
Sometimes you can learn a lotabout yourself, and that's fine.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh yeah, that's not what I'm saying, but I find
myself looking back to when youand I got saved and how fun that
was with you know, jeremy, backin the day and everything, yeah
, and I feel like there's days.
I'm just trying to reconnectwith my old self that way.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Dude, I remember.
But so much of it was exciting.
I remember praying for this guyand his nose stopped bleeding.
You know what I mean.
I was like God did it.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
It was amazing and yes he did, you know what I mean
.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Like there's a sense to that.
But also it was the smallthings, I think, where you began
to see it's not all death anddestruction and brokenness, it's
not just life sucks and thenyou die.
Oh, there's life mixed into allof this.
It's not just pure death now.
(19:42):
Wow, it's not just pure death.
Now You're beginning to see thespark of life and the beauty
that things are supposed to be,that you maybe didn't have eyes
for before.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
Well, it's a belief thing Because, to bring up your
example, it's like, oh God didthat.
But there's also parts nowwhere I'm like did God do that,
or that was just coincidencethere.
Do I believe coincidence?
I don't know.
Do I believe you, kind of go?
Down this rabbit trail in yourown brain.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah Well, and that's the funny thing is, we try to
create like the dualism right,like either there was a natural
cause there or God did that.
I'm like, why is it different?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
I don't want to be wrong if it was not God, because
then it feels like a falsefaith.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
But Tim this is my point there's nothing that
exists that is disconnected fromGod.
So the Bible says that he holdseverything together by the word
of his power.
Right?
That means the molecules thatmake up Tim Brown, the quarks
(20:48):
and their half-lives, theelectron that is spinning around
the atom.
What keeps it from spinning offliterally into nothingness?
God's word.
So right now and now, and nowyou're alive because God's word
is holding you together.
I find that fascinating.
(21:09):
And then we're like wait, butdid this happen because of God
or just because of nature?
And I'm like that's some doolishnonsense that actually the
Bible doesn't have a category,for we're over here trying to
like, parse the two and be likeoh, this has nothing to do with
this, that's just foolish.
That's just foolish, that'sjust stupid.
I hate to say it, but peopleare, like you know, lazarus
(21:31):
coming back from the dead.
That was a miracle, right?
Yeah?
Did his heart start beatingagain?
Yes, so.
Was it natural?
Well, that doesn't normallyhappen, could it happen?
Have we brought people?
Yeah, but usually not like that, right?
So, if it started, is thatnatural or not natural?
Well, it happened in thenatural, but something
(21:52):
supernatural caused it, right?
Like everything else ever.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Well, as a little dad he was just asleep To my still
To this day I'm like where didhe go for those four days?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
you know where did he go?
Dude, I would love it.
You know was he like?
Was he, you know, in likeabraham's?
You know, bosom, the luke 16paradise idea.
You know, I didn't mean to justget sucked back down into his
body.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
He's like oh, this see, I heard that lazarus and
jesus were friends and then,after jesus brought him back,
he'd never hear about him again.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
They're not friends anymore, he's like you did this
to me, you, you, you you didn'tsave my life, you ruined my
death, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Totally, totally.
All right, let me get into thekind of the second part of this.
Okay, cause I think what yousaid, was really cool to get out
of this cycle of just livinghard right, like not believing
that it's just going to behunky-dory and roses and daisies
.
But one thing I found hashelped me and I really want to
know what you think is findingvalidation.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Whether that's being a father, husband, employee,
employer, whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Is it a sinful to pursue validation from others?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
I think I'm trying to .
I guess I'm trying tounderstand.
By this do you mean somebodyaffirming that you're not wrong,
Like just saying, yes, you didthe right thing?
Speaker 1 (23:19):
I want to bring up the dualism aspect again.
It's like everything is God.
I want to be validated in that.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
I'm over here like hey, not everything is God.
What he meant was everythingthat happens.
God is a part of.
God is a part of yes.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
Yes, no, when you?
I guess.
Let me bring it here.
You know the story of Zacchaeusyeah, the wee little man, the
yeah, the wee little man.
And the wee little man, yeah,which I don't believe he
actually was, but that's not thepoint.
But he starts to tell Jesusfrom this tree hey, I've given
to the poor, I've sold all mystuff, I'm treating people
better.
And Jesus literally looks athim and is like I'm staying with
you tonight, like to me that'svalidation.
(23:55):
It's like, oh good.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
The things I heard.
That's interesting because Idon't know that that story is
the story that I would like pickLike.
Let me take you down thewormhole for a second.
I am a Calvinist, yeah, okay,and so many of the questions
that we deal with Tim are likehuge sovereignty, human
responsibility question.
So forgive me if I'm likecannibalism that will pond again
that we have sat in togetheruntil it became a swamp.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
That's fine.
I think the same thing couldmean the same thing.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I'm context, but when the Bible says no one is good,
not one.
I don't think that anybody didanything and God was like and
that's why I did this for you.
So like when Zacchaeus is inthe tree or it's like did he do
the right things or was this thecorrect?
No, none of it was right.
(24:55):
He's not good, none of it.
Literally, god saved us becausehe's awesome, right, and he's
good.
It's a very spiritual aspect,well all I'm trying to say, like
it almost should help youbreathe out for a second, though
, because if you justacknowledge, yeah, no, I'm not,
I probably screwed that up, itprobably wasn't great, you know
(25:15):
what I mean.
Like yeah, what word do youhave?
Where God's going to be likeyou know what, buddy, I'm so
proud of you, you did such agood job when it's not like
finger paintings on dad's truck.
You know what I mean and he'sjust being nice about it.
I don't know.
And look, I don't mean to saythat you can't do things in
Christ that are good and fromthe spirit and all that stuff.
(25:36):
What helps me, tim, is justremembering that it is not my
decisions or what I have done.
Those are not the reasons.
God loves me, right, and that,like, helps me breathe out a lot
.
Now let me give you the flipside.
I guess I would say.
It seems to me that, because youhave an accuser, there is a
(25:59):
biblical reason or right tovalidation, all right.
So if you have someone that isaccusing you, validation in some
sense is affirming that no, Iam, I am or I did, I was.
It seems to be more associatedwith identity than moments.
Moments are frail and you knowcircumstances and everything's
(26:24):
caught up and everything else,and I don't believe that we're
able to make decisions, totallyapart from some of the you know
the fallen world that we live inand are a part of right.
So many situations it's likewhat is the right thing to do?
I don't know.
I need wisdom.
I got to trust God because itall feels right and it all feels
very wrong.
You know, like there's juststuff like that.
(26:45):
I think the validation that weneed more deeply is ultimately
about our own identity in Christ, and every moment I think we're
asking the question less did Ido the right thing?
More am I the right person?
Am I the right person for thisjob?
(27:05):
Is what I'm doing wrong andthat's why it's not
accomplishing what I think it'ssupposed to accomplish?
And there's a grand narrativein Scripture where I don't think
we realize that is literallythe work of Satan is to get
Christians to think that thereis more, or they missed out or
somehow they're not doing theright thing.
(27:27):
Or like, yeah, you screwed thisup, because if you did this
better, you wouldn't be in thesituation that you're in and all
this different stuff.
And I mean Jesus got temptedthat way, right, yeah, he's in
the garden like hey.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I don't want to do this.
Yeah, there's another way.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
It'd be cool in the desert, right?
He's asking him if you're theson of God, do this, do this?
The question really ultimatelybecomes in every circumstance we
ask ourselves like am I trulywhere I'm supposed to be?
Is this right, is this right?
And Isaiah 54, 17, I quote allthe time.
But it's this incrediblepromise to me.
(28:08):
He says no weapon that isfashioned against you will
succeed.
And we're like well, that seemsincorrect.
Well, let's break it down, allright, and you shall refute
every tongue that rises againstyou in judgment.
And you're like cool, justin,but that's talking about the
children of Israel.
This is the heritage of theservants of the Lord and their
(28:28):
vindication, or validation, ifyou wanted to say it that way.
Tim is from me, the Lord.
So this promise here is really apromise to those who are the
children of God, not just thepeople of Israel.
I mean.
Earlier on he's like all yourchildren shall be taught by the
Lord.
The great shall be the peace ofyour child and righteousness.
(28:51):
You should be established.
You'll be far from oppression.
All this different stuff.
It's really cool, butultimately he's trying to say
okay, no weapon that isfashioned against you will
succeed in taking you off thecourse that god has planned and
the work that god is doing andthe person that god is making
you to be in your life.
This should beg the questionwhen Goliath stands against
(29:19):
David, did he do something wrong?
Goliath, yeah, no, david, Imean Goliath.
You could ask the question thesame way, did Goliath?
Speaker 1 (29:29):
do something wrong.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Or was he ordained for that too?
You know, a whole notherquestion.
And again, I'm not trying tomake it too abstract because I
know, like Tim, my goal in thisis always to, like, get us up
into heaven a little, and yourgoal is always to pull our feet
right back down to the ground.
And I love it.
It's a good dynamic.
But when I think about thistext, ultimately what it's
saying is that if you're facingsomething and you're feeling the
(29:52):
breath of the accuser on yourneck, it's probably a good
evidence that you are validatedin what you're doing, that there
is vindication for you when youwalk with Christ.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
that Macario blessing that, no, I'm going to trust
and walk with the Lord.
There's still thisresponsibility that we have,
along with that verse right.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Yeah, well, and every story tells a story, right.
So like, uh, the israelites didnothing.
Could they have done something?
Hypothetically, yes, did they?
No.
Was it part of their story tonot do something?
Yes, could they have donesomething?
Yes, um, their story speaks tous about how we want our story
to be, and the accuser willalways be telling you you're in
(30:35):
the wrong spot, you're doing thewrong thing, you're not this,
you're not that, and alwaystends to validate you when
you're doing the wrong things.
Don't challenge the giant, noway.
Oh, come on, only a fool, wouldyou know how to be like?
There's always that spectrum ofencouragement and
discouragement in thesedifferent places, and I don't
know when I read this verse andit says no weapon that is
(30:56):
fashioned against you willsucceed.
I would take this to mean thatanything that you actually come
against, whether you perceive itas it's succeeding against you
or not, and Christ does not,because God will have his way
and bring about what he'ssupposed to through this, and
the fact that Jesus says youwill have suffering, there are
going to be problems, there isgoing to be some pain, tells me
(31:18):
that it's written into yourstory.
I mean, philippians 2 says, oris it Philippians 1?
It says it is granted to you,on behalf of Christ, that you
would suffer with him.
Hate that, okay, but granted,what do you mean?
Granted you mean?
I mean given is one thing, butgranted is like you're welcome.
(31:41):
But if we're to know Christ, ifwe're to understand the greater
story that we're a part of, weshould know that no weapon that
was formed against Christsucceeded.
And because Christ is now in me, I can trust that taking up my
cross daily is not me dealingwith failures and problems, but
ultimately, the new spirit thatis in me, because Christ has
(32:04):
given me a new one and hisindwelling spirit can testify
that no, I'm a child of God.
And all of these negativevoices, all these things that
come against my, my mentalityand how I'm living, ultimately I
will be vindicated in thepresence of God and he will.
He will cancel out those debtshimself for those who are in
(32:25):
Christ and and call it accordingto his purpose.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
Right, right, and it really comes from if we're
living life hard, in thoseseasons where it just sucks, you
know, yeah, I want to bevalidated in that, knowing that
I'm still doing the right thing,that I'm on the right track
here, yeah, and I'm steadyingthe course here, yeah.
So, to bring it, it can getweird, because you have James
(32:48):
talking about a man with doubtis just, you know, two-minded
and back and forth in the waves.
I'm like dang, I'm that guy alot.
Speaker 2 (32:55):
So let's bring it back down to the ground.
Were the decisions that youmade made in faith?
Were the decisions that youmade made in wisdom?
Were the decisions that youmade made in obedience?
I would say, if you can answer,you might add one more Were the
decisions that you made made inlove?
Right, which could fall underthe category of obedience?
(33:16):
But ultimately, if you're doingthose things and you're getting
punched in the mouth, praiseGod Like I don't know, but it's
been granted to you.
It's like you're welcome.
God's like take this, this isgood, this is a good thing.
I know it doesn't feel good inthe moment, but this is
(33:37):
accomplishing something, it'sdoing something and feeling God,
but I feel like a janitor.
Good Right, this is doingsomething.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Well then there's always that thing people say in
church.
It's like well, when you die,it would all be revealed to you
as to why things happened, youknow.
So I'm like, really so I haveto just live as best I can, even
though I feel like I'm justcrap all the time.
And then, when I get to heaven,oh, that's why I did this.
Think about it this way I don'tlive like that either.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
I don't think it's that way.
I don't think it's that way,all right, so I brought this up
in the past.
Resurrected with scars, hecomes back in his resurrected
body with holes in his hands.
Seems strange, Unless the marksthat we bear from the struggle
that we walk through areactually medals of honor in the
(34:24):
kingdom, okay so.
So think about it this way whenyou get to heaven, there's not
going to be like, hey, now let'ssit down and I'm going to prove
to everyone, in front ofeveryone else, every
circumstance so that you can sithere and be like ha see, right?
No, instead, you get a robethrown over your shoulders and
you get a crown placed on yourhead and then you judge the
(34:45):
angels.
Okay, so it's not as thoughyou're sitting here trying to
figure it out.
It's more like I'm goingthrough life trusting that what
he said was the case.
And when I get to the otherside and I'm given my crown and
I'm placed at his table and I'mcalled to judge the angels, it
(35:06):
won't be a question, it will bevindication, not because we had
to go through every circumstance, but because the crown is on
your head and the Lord Christhas given it to you himself.
That, to me, is and again, whyis that important?
Because the moment-to-momentthing isn't the biggest deal.
The most important thing is theidentity that you're given, and
(35:26):
if Christ says you're a prince,then I am a prince, that I am a
prince If Christ says that notongue that is set against me
will prevail and that everyenemy that is fast against me
will not succeed, then I'm goingto live like.
This is exactly the way.
If I continue to do and walk asChrist did is I would continue
(35:50):
to live in that blessing.
In that the word of shalomliterally means you know, people
say shalom.
I mean like, hey, peace, peacebe upon you.
But ultimately it means as Godwills it.
Like shalom would be like Ihope you walk out exactly God's
plan for your life.
Right, and we can talk abouttangents and hey, when we do
(36:12):
stupid stuff.
Is that cool?
And there's no accusation?
No, but the cool thing is isthe Bible makes it clear that
God punishes his own kids whenthey do that.
He's like this one's mine, I'lltake care of it.
And then even that is why.
Well, what does that mean?
Well, at that point, it's notthe accuser that's condemning
(36:32):
you, it's your own dad tellingyou to get your life together,
which is almost more encouraging, but almost more scary as well.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Well, it's scary trying to figure out between the
two.
It's like is this God?
Are you disappointing me, or isthis just the enemy?
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah, well, that's what I was talking about earlier
.
You know what I mean.
If you, if you're walkingthrough this process of like
faith, obedience, love, like amI doing the things and wisdom
that God has called me to, andif you're running it through
that spectrum, you're running itthrough the, what you've
learned from the word, what youknow about the Lord and what
he's called you to do, um, Icannot imagine you getting to
(37:06):
heaven and God being like, yeah,you, just you screwed it up.
Really bad, no, because sinultimately is sin of, not not
confusion, but but I, I trulythought I was doing the right
thing, to the best of my ability, to the word that you gave me,
the wisdom that you gave me, thespirit that you gave me.
I walked those things out.
I can't imagine you get toheaven and God's like you idiot,
all of the things that I saidin that particular moment didn't
(37:29):
count for you.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
Honestly one of my fears when I get to heaven is
not that you know.
Depart from me, worker.
I don't fear that as much as Iused to.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
You fear more that you've missed something.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
I would fear more of God being like.
Look at the life you could havehad if you would have chosen me
in that circumstance there.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Or look if you would have just come to me during this
time and chose this, then lookwhat would have happened, you
know that's to me as a fearfulthought, tim, let me put it to
you this way I don't think youget to heaven in the splendor
and glory of God with a crown onyour head, a robe on your back,
and get to sit and judge theangels and then are then told
your your fold, your identity,and given whatever your
(38:09):
beautiful purpose is in thateternal state.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:13):
And then you're thinking back on what you missed
.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Well, that would happen before all that.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, this happens rightafter you die, all right.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
So I just wrote this into a chapter, tim, but I'm
going to go ahead and say it.
Okay, what is amazing to meabout the burning bush is that
Moses is encountering theholiness of God.
A bush is set on fire.
God is speaking to him out ofthe bush.
He takes off his sandalsbecause he's on holy ground.
Sand from this holy ground isliterally pressing up in between
(38:47):
his toes to make him totallyuncomfortable and not focused on
.
Like you know.
It's not about comfort here,it's not about you.
You are being invaded.
You know what I mean Like.
And then he's telling him I'mgoing to send you, throw your
staff down Look, you know what Imean.
Put your hand in your coat.
Look, you have leprosy.
Now it's gone.
Like the power of God hasdescended in this moment and
(39:11):
Moses is being told I'm sendingyou, and he's in the presence of
the Lord and the first thingthat he's fighting against is
his own inadequacy.
And I get it Like.
I get our tendency when we seeGod is to think about us, but
that's actually the biggerblasphemy.
The tendency when we see Godshouldn't be about to look at
(39:34):
ourselves and our own thinkingand our own stuff.
Our tendency should be tobehold him and worship and
praise and walk out whatever hehas told us to do.
The great scandal in all ofthis although I know it's pious
and popular to stare at yourselfwhen you encounter God, but the
(39:56):
opposite is actually what weshould be doing.
When you encounter God, youstare at him, you focus on him
and you do what he says.
And so, just as we'reprocessing this idea of heaven
and how things roll out, whathappens, I think we're looking
at it through the lens of ourown inadequacy and our sinful
tendencies here.
And I think this idea of noweapon formed against you, every
(40:19):
tongue that condemn you youwill destroy on the last day.
Why?
Because I am a child of God.
When you come into the eternalstate, tim, I don't think there
is an ounce of doubt, regret ormess left in you, because you
are literally a prince in thatkingdom and there is no limp.
You know what I mean.
(40:40):
There's only power from God andlove of the community and being
fully known and fully knowing,and whatever the cost.
On this side of things, paultells us I think it's 2
Corinthians 9, that it pales incomparison.
These light and momentaryafflictions pale in comparison
(41:00):
to eternity and the glory there,and I think we just have to.
We got to remember that Eachmoment is valuable.
Whatever condemning voices I'mhearing, they don't hold water.
If you're walking infaithfulness to Jesus, if you've
made mistakes and you're notwalking in faithfulness to Jesus
, it's the Lord bringing youback to where you should be, and
(41:23):
one day you will breathe out,you will give up this body, uh,
this the last enemy.
Death will be destroyed for youand you will be clothed with a
resurrection body and andinvited into eternity where, um,
I don't even think you're goingto think about this stuff,
except to celebrate, you know,and um, so, whatever we're
walking through now, tim, thelife suffering, you know the,
(41:47):
the whole idea.
It's not wrong, it's.
The problem is that it's halfright and Satan loves to ignore
the refrain that God gives us,which is yes, but God, the
gospel itself, and so we embracethat and we trust him through
it, and in that we find not justour ultimate vindication but
(42:09):
our individual, momentaryvalidation.
So hope that helps.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah, that's probably good for time there, but thanks
for going through this Tacklingit.
Yeah, every time before I hitrecord I always say this might
suck.
So we'll just see what happens.
It still might, I don't know.
It was good.
I enjoyed the topic.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
And guys praying that today God would put just some
courage in your heart and steelin your spine to walk in the
fullness of who he's called youto be and reach out If you guys
have any topics you want us tocover.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
On that note, there's a new feature with our podcast.
In the description above ouremail address there's a link
that says send a text.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Oh cool.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Click on that on your phone, you're able to write in
anything right away.
Only we can see it, you and I.
So yeah, if you guys havequestions off when you're
listening or have something, inmind.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
You want to talk about pictures.
I won't even look at them.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
I don't think it's even allowed for pictures.
I hope not, I just have.
Speaker 2 (43:01):
I have some sick friends too, that's true, no,
but it's a link.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
If you have anything you want to bring up or any
questions you have right on thetop of your head and you don't
want to type out an email orsomething, just send it right
away.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Absolutely, it'll be pretty fun.
All right guys, great to beback and have an awesome week.
Yeah, catch you all next time.
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