December 12, 2024 • 43 mins
TJBHpodcast@gmail.com
Our chat shines a spotlight on the pivotal role parents play in imparting the Ten Commandments and biblical principles to their children. We discuss the importance of teaching values like honesty, respect, and love for God at home, and the potential societal pitfalls when this guidance is absent. Through personal stories, we navigate the challenges of honoring one's parents, acknowledging the growth that comes from these experiences. Our dialogue underscores the need for strong family values to maintain societal coherence and harmony, while reflecting on the broader implications for our communities.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
I'm with Justin, I'm here, dude, that's such a habit.
Now I'm trying to break thathabit, you know what, tim, I
really am.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
People still love you .
They love your voice, they loveyour deep.
I don't know, I don't think youcan call it a brogue.
Brogue is like an accent.
You just got a deep like abaritone thing going on, welcome
to Navigate.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I've never heard that before.
Yeah, it sounds nice.
I'm doing it on purpose.
It's calming.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's calming.
The bigger your beard gets, thedeeper your voice goes.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Dude, you were the first one to notice my beard,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
No, everybody notices I was going to shave it the
moment somebody said somethingwhat?
I want you to cut that thingand give yourself the.
What do they call it?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
A goatee or what?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, no, no, you know, you leave the sideburns and the
mustache and you just cut thechin?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's not.
You should do that, theWolverine.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's killing me, mutton chops, mutton chops.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mutton chops.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
That's what I was like for Reformation Month next
year.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Did you not have a beard at some point Me?
No, like I can't think of younot having a beard, oh no he's
just growing it out.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
Just See how it's growing onthe sides and like not.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But you always have.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Nobody on this podcast right now knows what
Facial hair though you alwayshave some facial hair right,
I've never seen you clean shaven.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
By the way, guys AJ is here notice.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
He's the third voice.
I'm confusing him, I know I hadto break in at some point
because I was like wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
If we're bringing up mutton chops.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am entering.
I thought you guys were goingto try to convince me, like he's
never had a beard, and Ithought, no, I saw this episode
of Star Trek and they tried tomake the guy.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Some people have been listening to the podcast
forever, never seen Tim.
They're like Tim has a beard,Tim has a beard.
With that voice he absolutelyhas a beard and he's the best
looking one here.
So you guys don't know, it'strue.
I'm quite the catch but youprobably already knew that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, you could have seen with the voice.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's nice , it's nice, thank, right, yes,
number five.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Continuing into the Ten Commandments, we are in
number five.
Hot dog it's going to befantastic.
Last week we talked to one withJosiah was with us about the
Sabbath.
Yes, that's the fourth one.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, it was good.
I enjoyed talking about that.
I've since been a little bitmore.
I'll tell you what goingthrough these commandments has
made me more reflective ingeneral about the value of these
in society.
Like everyone should applythese in their life, you would
legitimately just be a betterChristian and more Christ-like
if you took the 10 commandmentsmore seriously and thought about
(02:32):
the implications that they havein life and society in general.
There's just a life and, let'ssay, heritage I mean we'll get
into some of this even today butjust there are implications of
living out the Ten Commandmentsin a greater way.
I know it sounds cliche, but Idon't even think people could
quote what the Ten Commandmentsare anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, we know there's Ten Commandments.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
They're supposed to be really important.
Why?
But like Jesus, though, right.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's a Sunday school thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Like that's how we think about it.
We the Ten Commandments that'show you define biblical love,
that's what it's supposed tolook like Define Christian
culture.
The Ten Commandments that's howyou define Christian culture,
and each one of thesecommandments has subcategories
of how we would spell that outin different given situations.
These are it's the bedrock ofChristianity.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I just I don't even think we think about it
that way.
Those are principles I'vealready put into practice,
believe it or not, from theSabbath one.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We did.
What did you start?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
doing bro.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Just the idea of rest and giving things to God.
Deepening my voice.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Mutton chops.
God gave it to me, I signed forit.
Listen, listen.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
If one of you people who are listening to the podcast
, if you send in a picture ofyou shaving your face into
mutton chops, I'll give you ashout out.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I will, they should have one of those navigate
hoodies, exactly we should.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Oh, I can get you a navigate hoodie.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, we should hook somebody up with that If
somebody sends a picture they'regoing to make navigate hoodies.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We'll put a picture of your face on the navigate
hoodie.
That is not true.
Well, maybe Depends how goodlooking you are.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The fifth commandment is honor your parents.
Honor your father and mother.
Yeah, um, I think that's why wehad aj come back, because every
time we talk family parentingyou always seem to be the guy we
think of.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yes, thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know why yet.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
But no, I'm just kidding I've got a lot of kids I
I wish I could say, man, I'mreally good at, uh, raising kids
or being a son, and'm I'm stillgrowing in both quite a bit
yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think it would be weird if you started that off
with like I've arrived and thisis my.
I'm going to give everybodyparenting advice.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
If my kids all turn out really really good, I think
I'll say you should reallylisten to me.
I raised all my kids andthey're all serving the Lord,
but I'm like I don't want tostart talking like I know.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And then my kids go off.
Serving so far, but the thingis the reputation of your
children precede you, Right,they do.
They go before you.
That's the whole point of likethe Psalm 127.
You having arrows in the handof a warrior, you getting to
stand in the gate with your kidsis're kind of this, this, you
know army of people behind you.
So when you would say something, there would be a greater
(05:09):
thrust of like me in this armybehind me.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So I don't even think you have to say that if you do
it right, your reputation as afamily goes ahead of you and you
don't have to.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So what about honoring your parents?
Has to do with parenting.
You know it sounds like acommandment for the child not
for the parents.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Let me.
Okay, so I love that you saidthat.
Can we start there for a second?
Okay, because there's two sidesof this and I almost want to
like can I frame thisconversation for a second Like?
This is important because we'restarting the second table of the
law, all right, so we have thefirst table, which is the first
four commandments about how weworship God, and then we have
the next set of commandmentswhich are telling us
(05:49):
functionally how that plays outin the life that we live with
the people around us.
We talked about the first set,the first four being loving God,
the last six being loving yourneighbor.
We've entered into loving yourneighbor, or, let's say, family
relationships or, let's you know, external relationships that we
have, not apart from God, butbecause of our relationship with
(06:11):
God.
So you have the firstcommandment, which is basically
loving the Lord, your God, right, with all your heart, soul,
mind and strength, which is abig deal.
And starting out with this iswhere everything begins.
And the first commandment, let'ssay the second table of the law
, starts at home.
This is important because whatit's saying is before any other
(06:32):
relationship, you got to get thehome right, you got to get
relationship with your family.
Right, because if it does notstart at home, nothing else
works, does not start at homenothing else works.
And what sucks about this, tim?
I think secular leftists,marxist people understand this
(06:53):
better than the church does.
Like Marx and I'm trying tothink of the guy that I want to
say, hegel, but I could be wrongHis whole point was if you
undermine the family, you willundermine the church, so you
need to do that.
His whole idea was if wedestroy the family, we'll
destroy religion itself.
(07:13):
Religion is based on this ideaof the family.
So if you hijack the family,you hijack everything else and
unfortunately, I think in a lotof ways there's been a huge
success with disconnectingfamily relationships.
How many people hate theirparents?
How many people talk aboutbroken homes?
How many people have no honorfor their father or mother at
(07:35):
all, like in any way?
It's just, it's not a thing.
Or if you love your parents,it's for all the wrong reasons.
Everybody's got baggage andit's been incentivized by a
culture that's taught you tobreak away from your family.
Thank you, disney.
I was talking to my daughterabout this, watching disney
films, and I was like, how comeevery?
It was uh.
Last one I watched was moanatim.
Okay, and you have theoverbearing family who's like.
(07:57):
You can never leave the wholebeginning of that song is like
and no one leaves.
It's like creepers, um.
And they set it up like youhave to break away from your
family and separate and besomething else.
Sociologists even came up withthis term teenager to create
this idea that, oh, when kidsturn into teenagers, they
(08:18):
obviously become nightmares andhave to create their own path
and do their own thing.
That's not a biblical teaching.
Okay, nowhere in the Bible islike and when they become
teenagers, they become crazy.
Just get just so you're ready.
That's going to happen.
That is a Marxist idea that hasworked its way into our culture
in such a strong way that ithas been breaking up families
for a very long time.
(08:38):
And now we have governmentofficials let's say talking
about they're not your kids,they're our kids, right,
national, you know, it's anational family and we'll tell
you how to raise your kids.
If you undermine the family, youundermine everything, and God
set up in the 10 commandments.
The first is you have to loveme.
I need to be at the center ofeverything, that is, your
(08:58):
relationship with me and withregard to everything else.
And then, secondly, when itcomes to everyone else, it
starts with the family and howthe family affects everything
else around you.
So when we set this up and wetalk about honoring your father
and your mother, as the Lord Godhas commanded you, that your
days may be prolonged and thatit may go well with you in the
(09:18):
land which the Lord, your God,gives you, I want you guys to
see the beginning of how he'ssaying revival truth.
You.
I want you guys to see thebeginning of how he's saying
revival truth.
Blessing.
All of this starts at home.
Revival starts at home.
Hope, joy, longevity thesethings start at home, and I
think we have a whole culturethat's set on undermining that
and telling you that that'sactually, that's actually the
(09:39):
wrong way to do things.
And, tim, I think we grew uptalking about how we didn't want
to get married because, oh,every marriage we saw was
miserable and everything waslike.
We had this idea of it that Idon't think was accurate because
of people that we knew.
I think it was accurate becauseof the culture that we lived in
.
You pick up on it.
Marriage isn't honored anymore.
Nobody cares if you're married.
In fact, if somebody said I'vebeen married for 20 years, it's
(09:59):
kind of this trite clap or I'msupposed to celebrate this, but
nobody really you know what Imean Actually wants to be
married for 20 years.
Right, you know.
Find somebody, better, findsomebody.
You know, I saw some.
I saw some ad dude.
It was wild.
Somebody took a picture of this.
It was this it was the samegirl who wrote both articles.
(10:24):
One was like how cheating on myhusband made me a better mother
, and then, two years later, anarticle that was like why do I
feel so inferior with otherwomen that aren't divorced?
It's like this is the ladywho's influencing our culture
and writing this stuff.
But that's the kind ofautonomous.
It's me.
I'm not part of anything else.
I have to make my own way.
I have to be my own person.
It's actually kind of killingus yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I mean talking about honor in the family is just make
sure everybody's getting along,make sure there's less
arguments, make sure everybody'shappy when they come home,
because this is a home.
What are you talking about whenyou say honor in the family?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, let me bring it back even a step farther.
I think the way that we tend toview laws is human-centric.
So let me start by saying thiswe think to ourselves if I read
something in the Bible and thatsounds like it's something that
actually would benefit me, thenI must agree with it.
(11:22):
But if I read something and itdoesn't seem to immediately
benefit me, I don't really wantto do that and we would ask the
question why?
What's the point?
We don't have a.
God has commanded this.
You should do this.
Mentality.
We have a.
If this benefits me and I cansee how it benefits me, then
I'll do it.
Mentality.
And so I would start by sayinghonor in the family starts from
(11:44):
a place of what has God told me?
How am I supposed to treat myfamily around me?
Not necessarily well, what'spragmatic and what doesn't work.
So even when you just talkedabout this like what does that
really get along in the family?
And this, you're alreadythinking pragmatic terms of how
does this benefit me, not whathas God told me to do, that will
actually produce you know whathe worship?
And more praise for his nameand elevating him and and man.
(12:10):
I want to touch on somethingelse real quick too.
I feel like I'm I didn'trealize I had this much I wanted
to say.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
This commandment is in here for children and adults.
We I tend to think about thisonly for adults, because I was
raised in a more of a let's say,a baptistic home which thinks
that kids can't be Christiansuntil they've accepted Christ as
their savior at 22 or 23, afterthey've sowed wild oats and
(12:37):
been an idiot and actually gotregenerate.
This commandment is in herebecause it's expecting you to
talk to your children and tellthem honor your father and
mother, like they're supposed toknow who God is, and understand
these commandments and walk inthem in a way that's honoring to
him.
That's a big deal.
That means God is expecting youto raise your kids like
(12:57):
Christians and he's expectingthem to live in covenant
families and be able tounderstand the Ten Commandments
along with the rest of thefamily.
You should teach your kids thesethings, yes, so I think that's
a big deal, because a lot ofpeople think, oh, the Ten
Commandments are for adultChristians who already get it.
No, the Ten Commandments arerules for life.
Even before your kid totallyhas, let's say, a moment with
(13:19):
God where he totally getswrecked and it's awesome.
They should know these things,get them and be able to walk in
them, and the Bible is expectingyou to to get that.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's such a.
The burden falls on the parentsto teach their kids the 10
commandments and teach them theword of God.
And so if a kid's like I don'tknow how to honor my parents,
it's like, well, taught them tonot lie, steal, kill.
And so when we teach ourchildren the word of God and we
say this is what it says, andyou are going to honor me,
(13:50):
you're gonna respect me andyou're gonna love God.
This is the way we do things inour house.
If a kid doesn't know how to doany of those things and then
they go wayward and the parent'slike, well, they're just in
God's hands and God's like I putthem in your hands.
You were supposed to teach themthese things.
That's why I'm constantlytelling you like, teach them
this, say these things.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you lie down, when you rise up, put them on
your forehead, on your house, onyour wrist, when you go to
sleep.
You should be teaching thesethings.
And to your point, Tim.
It says do these things right,Honor your father and mother.
And if you're asking how do Ihonor my father and mother?
You just said it you shall notmurder, you shall not commit
adultery, you shall not steal,you shall not bear false witness
, you shall not covet yourneighbor's wife or your
(14:33):
neighbor's house or all thesethings.
You're teaching them principlesfrom everything the 10
commandments have given.
So, look, your kid may not belike well, I don't think my
small child is going to murderanybody.
Are you teaching them abouthatred?
Are you teaching them aboutwhere those things start and
where they go?
Hey, how you're treating yourbrother right now is murderous.
(14:55):
I'm going to take you to thestory of Cain and Abel.
Let me tell you a little bitabout this.
Let me tell you wherecomparison goes and how this
starts in your heart, where it'sgoing to take you if you don't
get this right.
What am I teaching them?
How to do, how to love, how tolove God and how to express that
love for God in therelationships around.
Okay, second table of the law.
This is basic, fundamentalthinking.
And where does where do welearn the rest of how these
(15:17):
commandments fall out in society?
At home, first, with yourfamily, and how to express these
things.
So I I don't mean to hijack thisand make it just about family
at first, because I do think weneed to talk about specifically
how do I honor my father andmother and what does that mean?
I really wanted to get peopleto understand the implications
and how important this actuallyis, because it's the framework
(15:38):
by which everything else isgoing to happen, because if you
have families teaching kids theright things across an entire
society, literally everythinggets better.
Everyone becomes on the samepage.
I'm not saying everything.
All the problems disappear.
I'm saying they all at leastwere at least now in the same
framework, where we know what isright and what is wrong and
(16:00):
we're not arguing about whetheror not our son is a daughter.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's not even in the same.
You hit on it about destroyingthe family and it's just like,
why wouldn't you go after, likelet's just try to make murder,
okay.
And it's like, just destroy thefamily that way.
It's like, and we'll teach thekids the rest of the rules,
we'll teach them about lying andstuff like that, but when you
destroy the family and it's likethere's no morals, there's no
such thing as right or wrong.
It's your truth.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yes it Well.
We bastardized education.
Yeah, if the family is not theplace where you learn truth and
you learn about God and youlearn how to express those
things, and you hand it over tothe state to tell them those
things and the state is going togive it its secular worldview
or I would say pagan worldviewat this point, and is going to
teach them for you.
We've talked about the publicschool system a little bit and
(16:51):
some of these different things.
And look, I could talk aboutwhere the church has failed,
where families have failed.
I think really, what I wouldjust like to communicate is the
bedrock of the family and howhonoring your father and mother
is a big deal.
And I will be the first to say,tim, I suck at this.
I've been borderline dreadingtalking about this particular
commandment, because I don'tthink I have done a great job at
(17:13):
this commandment in general.
I just haven't.
I love my dad, I love my mom.
Very difficult for me to figureout how to do this.
Well, I guess in the recentyears I've been getting better
at it and trying to figure outhow to make more sense.
Like I can sit down with my dadand talk about theology forever
.
We get along.
We love each other.
(17:33):
I love my mom.
We get along.
We can talk, trying to figureout how to let's say how to
express that honor to him in myfamily or in unique ways that
don't feel superficial or like Ijust came over for a holiday.
You know what I mean.
How do you actually developthat?
(17:57):
And I think the life that youlive in light of what your
parents taught you is probablythe greatest way to honor your
father and mother.
If they taught you to love theLord, raise godly kids, pour
into them, make a difference insociety, grow you know, pour
into your church, grow thekingdom.
If you're doing those things,you're probably honoring your
parents.
But I think maybe thedifference between what like,
(18:17):
maybe a key piece of that that Iwould tell people is that means
inviting your parents into thattoo.
Not just doing thatunilaterally, but actually
having them be a part of thatprocess.
Are your parents seeing what'sgoing on with your kids?
Are you asking them for wisdomabout particular circumstances?
Are you celebrating wins withthem?
Are you sharing losses andprayer requests with them?
(18:38):
I think we're supposed to dothat, and I'll be the first to
say I suck at it.
Um.
It's been hard for me, and Ithink part of that is because I
was raised in a generation thatdoes not value family or parents
and sees the greatest, um, thegreatest sense of becoming an
adult is actually abandoningyour family and not continuing
your family's legacy.
Those are two very differentthings.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's uh, I mean I don't
know who does it perfectlyhonoring their dad, but it's,
and it's one of those thingsthat you know we're honoring
imperfect people too, and we'reand I think people think, if I
would honor him for the thingshe did good, for things he did
right, but not all these things.
(19:20):
And it's like if we, if we'lljust take it as the commandment,
God saying to do this, and it'slike I will do it, and as we do
that and we start searching forthings, and it's like I want to
give my dad honor, and theymight, he might like there's
times where I've tried to givemy dad honor and he's just, it's
like, rejected it and that washurtful.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
He doesn't know how to take it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
It's like, ah, but it's just like, the more we do
it, this is like the more that Ithink that for for my dad, the
more that he believes like Ireally am bringing this as a as
a as a offering of like I am,I'm trying to, I'm trying to
honor you, I'm doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think that that helps restore the relationship
and I'm thinking that's what Iwant my kids to do, is just like
I just want you to know, dad,even if I don't listen to your
advice, I really I really dorespect you, or like I'm
thankful for the things you'vegiven me and so like being able
to just like be thankful forwhat they did give and not
Britain throwing all their theirface.
You know, here's where youmessed up and man, my, my
parents actually like apologizedto me a few years ago for some
(20:16):
of the stuff they like as a team, and I was like you guys don't
owe me anything Like like I feltguilty, like you know, for the
years, thinking I wish theywould just realize.
And then, when they did, I waslike actually, you guys have
given me so much, and I thinkpeople usually they come to that
place when their parents dieand then they're like they did
(20:36):
so great and it's like all youdid was complain about them for
all this time.
Why didn't you just bring themsome of that stuff, that honor,
and be like thank you for doingyour best, and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, I think you're touching on something that's
important here.
Tim, aj, sorry, the reality is,throughout Scripture we see
this principle you choose whatyou want to elevate and amplify.
Okay, when they talked aboutthe God of Abraham, isaac and
Jacob, did you know those people, right?
Okay, not great individuals.
(21:07):
A lot of mistakes.
A lot of big problems, likevery big problems.
You want to talk about David?
Okay, we're going mistakes.
A lot of big problems, likevery big problems.
You want to talk about David.
You want to talk about some ofthe issues in the family.
There's a ton of father wounds,father problems, mother wounds,
mother problems in.
Scripture, there's a lot ofthings that did not go right and
people who did not do the rightthings.
The Bible doesn't elevate theirsin as much as it elevates how
(21:32):
God used them despite thosethings.
And I think our goal, let's say, is adult children and man.
I could talk about some of thehow this applies to kids and
this how this applies to adultkids too but is choosing how you
want to talk about your parentsand telling the story in a way
(21:52):
that does give honor and showwhat they did really well, and
making that the thing that youwant to carry on.
Because if you elevate thelessons and the good things that
they actually did and what theywere able to provide, then what
you're handing down is an honorand a heritage of the good
things that God did, but ifyou're constantly elevating the
(22:14):
things that went wrong, you'renot really teaching lessons as
much as you're growingbitterness and a desire for
people to break off from thatand not be a part of those
people and what they did, and wedo this historically.
So this starts in the family,with how we view things, and
here's what my dad did and thenit turns into history.
Well, I can't listen to thisperson because they had this
(22:35):
going on in their life and itbecomes a witch hunt throughout
history.
If you're what the foundingfathers and what everybody else
did totally wrong and we can'tlisten to them because this
happened, okay, well, what youjust did is you showed me that
the way that you interpret lifeis through the lens of what
everyone else did wrong and howyou're going to be better and do
it different or at least Iwon't be that person.
Not look at the heritage of allthe good things that happened,
(22:57):
despite those difficult thingsthat went down, and how God used
them.
That's how the Bible tends totalk about history not through
the lens of what everyone didwrong, but how God blessed and
used them despite those things,and how they ended up having a
heritage of blessing and aheritage of godliness, despite
maybe not making all the rightchoices along the way, if they
(23:18):
did love the Lord and want tocontinue to pursue him.
And I think that's you'reteaching your kids how to
interpret life is like that andwe have a bunch of victims and
bitter people because we'vetaught everyone to focus on the
things that have gone wronginstead of telling the story in
a way that elevates God andelevates those people, despite
some of the mistakes that theymade.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Which is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
For all the moms and dads out there.
I think it's important the waythat you talked about your kids'
grandkids or their grandparents, and like the way that they're
going to talk about us.
You know our kids are going totalk about us and we think I'm
doing great, or you know I'mdoing that it's like you know
they could.
It's easy to find dirt onanybody Just wait right, but the
(24:03):
more that we're like, and it'snot deifying them either.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think sometimes we think I can't honor my parents,
they're not Jesus.
It's like, no, they're not,they're not going to like.
It's okay to to admit the theirfaults, but maybe not be
focused on that and and beingable to to honor those things,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Well, and I'm look, if you're a parent out there too
and you, like you, got kids,you know, like man, I don't feel
like my kid.
They're disrespectful, they'rethis and that, especially if
you're in some kind of phasewhere you're just you're walking
through some difficulty, one ofthe best ways to get your kids
to honor you and be obedient toyou is for them to see you honor
God and be obedient to God, andI think you're supposed to
model what that looks like.
(24:43):
And oftentimes you go to waragainst your family instead of
go to war for your relationshipwith God when things get
difficult.
Family instead of go to war foryour relationship with God when
things get difficult.
And I would say look, your kidsare not your enemy.
You know what I mean.
Your wife is not your enemy,your husband's not your enemy.
In fact, when things getdifficult, focus on the first
four, do that really well, workreally hard at that and watch
(25:05):
the fifth commandment, you know,and the implications of the
fifth start to get better.
I don't mean immediately, but Iam saying these are functional
promises.
God is saying if you do thesethings, good things will happen.
And it is worth noting, tim,that this particular commandment
is a positive commandment.
Most of them are don't do this,don't do this, don't do this.
This is the first one that'slike do this, which tells me
(25:28):
that these other commandmentsare things that naturally you
tend to do.
This commandment is somethingnaturally you tend to not do.
It comes naturally to you tonot honor your father and mother
or not do the family thing aswell as you should, and we
should realize that, especiallyas men, I think our tendency is
to not want to carry on the nameidentity, respect.
(25:50):
You know the posterity of myfamily.
You know what I mean.
We don't think that way.
It's actually natural for us to, let's say, become more
degenerate, become prodigals,run the opposite direction, get
bitter instead of continuing tohonor and do the right thing.
This is a positive requirementGod is giving us with positive
blessing.
(26:10):
So this is something we tend toomit.
It's not commission, this isomission.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, I've always been curious about this question
.
I kind of want to get youropinions on it.
But let's say you have adishonored child who's just
constantly going against thegrain that you're trying to
teach.
Is his behaviors just a way ofshowing, hey, you failed me as a
parent?
Is their behavior the cause?
From the parent's sin,basically, or not teaching them
(26:42):
the right thing?
So is it the parent's fault fora kid's behavior?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, many times that can be the case, but a child's
rebellion is going to still beon them.
And so you have, you know, inall the years working with
teenagers, we worked with lotsof parents who were totally
dishonorable, like they were notnecessarily worthy of honor.
And to teach those kids, yeah,your dad is a jerk is not
helpful to him.
And so it's like when I seewhen there was parents that
(27:09):
actually wanted help and we'd belike, read the Bible with your
kids, like talk about spiritualthings, do here's some good
practices, you know, get intochurch yourself, you know that
would give the kid less ammo.
Or just to you know they, thenthey couldn't say, as much, my,
my dad's just a hypocrite.
And you know when, when, asmuch, my, my dad's just a
(27:30):
hypocrite.
And, um, you know when, whenthere's hypocrisy, I'm like,
yeah, that's never going to begood for for for the kid.
But a parent, can you know, aparent can change that.
They can they.
They can, you know, starthonoring God with that.
But the, you know, I don't knowa teen's rebellion, even at the
end of the day, even if theirparents are hypocrites or
whatever, it's like, you've gotto still own up to your own,
(27:50):
your own life.
And yeah, because thecommandment doesn't say honor
your parents, as long as they.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
They were great people and you have great
stories to tell about them,right?
Yeah so it's true, right, likeyou.
And this again goes back tolike this story, how you
perceive and how you would wantto tell the story of your family
, what you would want to elevate, what you would want to
mitigate.
But, tim, I do think there's areality here to to AJ's point,
where there's there'sresponsibility on both sides of
(28:18):
things.
And I would say, if you, ifyou're a crappy parent, you know
what I mean, you might need totake some responsible for some
things, but really, what itboils down to is defined success
is apparent, no-transcript, andI would say a lot of people are
(28:40):
trying to measure the outcomeand not what they actually did.
Like pragmatically, like here'swhat I mean If I do these six
things, my kids will always comeout perfect.
Oh, okay, false, right, Nottrue, all right.
One of my favorite examples ofthis and this is something I
learned from my dad I was askingabout it to the kid.
(29:01):
I was like, hey, what happened?
Because it seemed like it gotwild there for a little bit with
this you know, siblings anddifferent things.
And he said, you know, he saidfor a long time I wore it
personally.
I was like what did I do?
I should have done thisdifferently.
And then he said and then Irealized you know, god was the
best father ever and his kidsstill blew the world up.
(29:21):
You know what I mean?
And I was like man, if youcan't breathe out after hearing
that, you don't get it.
You know like the picturereally is.
God is calling us to cultivatean environment and set our kids
up, equip them with what theywould actually need to succeed,
them with what they wouldactually need to succeed and to,
let's say, call them into thatpath.
(29:43):
But you cannot make someone dothe right things beyond a
certain reason.
The first, second table of thelaw is a little bit easier to
enforce.
Okay, don't murder anybody.
Yeah, societally, we can putstuff in place.
Don't commit adultery.
There's some things that arestatuary we can put in place.
Don't steal yeah, we can defendthat.
Hey, do I have idols?
A little harder to defend, alittle harder to figure that out
(30:05):
.
You can talk to people abouthow we grow in these areas, how
we make it better.
You got to model those things,but ultimately it is not on you
mom, dad, whether they are elector not.
You don't get to make thatdecision.
However, I do think there is aunique blessing and a unique
(30:26):
longevity that God promises forthose who will do these things
and I would say nine times outof 10, if dads and moms will
stay together, work through thedifficulty and continue on
despite what's going on withtheir kids, oftentimes, even if
there's a rough patch, you'llsee those kids come back and
thank their parents later,whether on this side of the
grave or the other side of thegrave.
I think about FrancisSchaeffer's son.
(30:49):
Francis Schaeffer was thisgreat kind of cultural apologist
, if you want to call him thatway, looking at history and how
God works through history andhow culture degenerates and this
kind of stuff happens.
And his son was like an atheist.
And then his dad died andeventually his mom died and his
son was their son, was not agood individual, he hated God.
(31:10):
And then, after his mom died,he wrote something like for some
paper or something.
He basically said OK, mom, youwin.
And everybody is like, ok, whatdoes that mean?
Is he saying, okay, now Ibelieve in God, you did it?
And it seems like that was theconnotation of what he was
writing.
There's something very powerfulabout you living the life that
you're, the way that you'resupposed to equipping your
(31:32):
children the way that you'resupposed to and then letting God
do the portion that you can'tdo on your own.
And I'll be honest, the moststressful and frustrating thing
about parenting is not beingable to change your children's
hearts the way that you want to.
You can only try to shape andmold.
You can direct, you can equip,but ultimately God is the father
and you have to trust your kidsto God, the father.
(31:53):
But but I do think there's a,there's an anointing and a
blessing that God puts onindividuals who will do these
things.
First, if you talk badly aboutyour own parents, if you don't
honor your own parents, if youdon't care about them, what in
the world makes you think yourkids are going to, are going to
love you and continue to do thesame stuff with you?
And I was talking to my wifeabout this the other day because
(32:14):
, like I was talking about myrelationship with my own family
man, I figured this out and Ihonor them, but I got to figure
out how to have them moreinvolved in this and that and I
was like because of my son is asdistant from you talking to my
wife is I am from my own mom.
I feel like I'm not going to beokay with that.
I got to start now and makethat better.
Because of my son doesn't loveand spend time with my wife, I'm
(32:37):
going to kill that kid.
You know what I mean.
I'm kidding, obviously but,like, but.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
That would be the most heartbreaking thing to you.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yes and I'm like, but I'm, I'm not.
Uh, am I orienting my life insuch a way that that's going to
be the case, or am I expectingsomething that I wasn't willing
to give?
And I think that should besomething that we all ponder.
Am I living out the thing thatI want them to do, or am I not
(33:06):
doing that thing and then itjust expecting them to figure it
out along the way?
And that's, that's omission.
I'm not being intentional aboutthis, I'm just expecting it to
work itself out.
That won't happen.
A family doesn't happennaturally.
A family degenerates naturallyand we have to actually work
hard to be intentional to makeit something special.
And I think biblically here,what it's saying is the root of
this, the foundation of this.
In the same way that you wouldhonor Father God in the
household, the first place thisshows up is honoring your
(33:29):
parents, who are the local,let's say, authority that God
has given in your life thatyou're supposed to honor,
respect and think through howyou live your life after.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
What if you had some crappy parents, though?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I think that it's on the Christian.
Let's say you're listening andyou didn't have good parents and
you're raising kids and it'snot as easy as you thought it'd
be, you know.
Then it's time to repent and belike okay, what do I need to
change my mind about and isthere something I need to go
honor my dad for?
(34:01):
And if you could find thosethings I'm like, I think there
could be healing in those places.
And I think that's where youstart to change your mind about
how you viewed him.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Or simple like hey, honor your parents doesn't mean
man, I just talked this dude upall the time, even though he was
not great at all.
I think it means elevating thethings that went well and then,
like the Bible, teaching somelessons about how things should
have gone if they had gone theright way.
I mean, I've said it before, Ithink my dad took, you know, a
step out of the darkness so Icould take two, right, I think
(34:35):
that's the goal.
That's a good way of saying hey, I don't think you got all the
way there in every area.
I think you got farther awayfrom the darkness so that I
could get even farther from that.
There's a progressivesanctification that should
happen in families and you seesome of this in scripture, where
you had a decent guy and thenhis son was able to do even more
because he did a little bit toget him out of the hole.
(34:58):
Now, sometimes you see that gothe opposite direction too, and
then you can look at some of theparenting principles and you're
like, yeah, it was kind of aterrible dad.
It makes sense.
That was the case, right?
I do think it's important toyour point Tim, measure success
and where there was success.
Celebrate that when there wasnot.
Teach from it.
But I don't think honor evermeans talk trash about.
(35:20):
And but I don't think honorever means talk trash about, and
I've been guilty of that in mylife.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Well, and I think, offering forgiveness too, where,
like the times that I know Iwas damaged in my heart and that
it was that it was the Lord wasrequiring of me to change and I
was like, but I'm not the onethat did the hurtful stuff, but
it's like well, when you startto forgive and you start to even
tell your you know the thingsmy parents didn't do so well on,
(35:43):
instead of saying I'm going todo better than my dad did with
you, as it's like I forgive mydad for not doing that the Lord
actually had to show me this,and where he brought good men
into my life to show me some ofthese things.
And now I want to teach you andlike yeah, of course, like,
because your, your grand, yourgrandpa wasn't perfect.
They might've missed this, Ithink offering like just lots of
(36:07):
mercy towards that and and andbeing like don't hold it against
them.
I'm not, I'm not holding thisagainst my dad, so you can't
hold it against you know,grandpa, or something, and the
more we do that, that that's anhonoring way to talk about a
person, and so if it's like well, I guess I had to learn
everything from God it's likegreat, then you can offer mercy
towards them.
God loves that man so much andhe didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
He just didn't know better, and so this goes into
Tim too, like the idea that theBible has about the significance
of a name and how you aresupposed to own who you are and
who your father was in a uniqueway that we don't do today in
society.
My last name is significant.
It came from somewhere.
It means something.
(36:47):
I should care about that.
I should want to extend theidentity, the values and the
significance that my family namehas bestowed on me by way of
birth.
God chose the family that I'min.
He picked who my parents wouldbe.
He's given me the name that Ihave and I'm supposed to carry
(37:07):
that with weight.
Like in the Old Testament, youhad these different tribes.
What tribe are you a part of?
Who are your people?
What are the significant thingsthat we know about these
different tribes and what theycarried and why it mattered, and
the victories that they had andthe significant special things?
Now, this tribe did that andthese people did this, and these
people did that to the pointwhere if somebody was, you know,
(37:29):
born into a family and let'ssay you're, you know your
husband died or you knowwhatever you know the brother of
this family had to go ahead andtake this woman on as a wife to
make sure that he was able tohave offspring and continue to
maintain this land and his stuffand his name, and why it was
significant.
We don't think in thosecategories today, but the Bible
(37:51):
is saying, man, your family,your name, where you're born,
who you're born to, hassignificance and you're supposed
to own that and God is actuallyexpecting you to do that.
You see this degeneracy, even inour culture, where people are
like I don't want to be calledan American.
Well, god put you here in thisnation, in this place at this
time.
It does have significance, itdoes mean something and you're
supposed to carry that and ownthat.
(38:12):
And in the same way, you seepeople dishonoring their fathers
and you see them dishonoringtheir cultures and their pastors
and whatever else.
They also hate their own nationbecause they've learned to
interpret life in this kind ofrebellious way that we don't
always think about.
This is why the Bible callsrebellion is the sin of
witchcraft, because the ultimatesin was Satan rebelling against
(38:35):
Father, god and doing his ownthing.
And how we see this in thefamily is children rebelling
against their godly parents anddoing his own thing.
And how we see this in thefamily is children rebelling
against their godly parents anddoing their own thing, and this
whole.
I don't like my family, I don'tlike my name, I don't like my
father, I don't like my nation,I don't like what I'm a part of.
All of that is demonic to itscore.
It's satanic.
It's this belief that what Iwas born into and who I am, and
(38:58):
life and all this stuff that, tome, is the essence of
witchcraft and it's taking you atotally different direction.
The identity of what your namerepresents and what you're
supposed to carry on is a bigdeal in families and it stems
from this.
If I had a bad dad, you knowwhat I mean.
And again, I'm going to do whatI always do.
(39:18):
I'm going to take it back tothe garden.
He says did God really say?
He's assaulting God's character.
He's saying God's not reallygood, he's holding out on you,
he's not giving you what heshould give you.
So you should doubt what hesays because you don't believe
he's good, which are the twoaxiomatic principles that every
deconstructionist has.
If I can find something Iperceive to be a problem, then I
(39:42):
can discredit everything thatthis person has done that is
good, that is not grace and thatis not mercy, which was at the
heart of what you're saying,pastor AJ, this idea that, like
no, we should give grace, weshould give mercy.
We should forget why.
Because those are biblicalprinciples about how we handle
things, not burn it down becauseI found something I dislike.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, and you're saying this thing about the sin
of witchcraft and it's like doesit ever like, when people have
this deconstructionist viewabout their life or about their
nation you know their parentsit's like does it ever yield
good fruit?
Can you think of I mean, Ican't think of one example where
it's like man, they reallydishonored either the church
they grew up in, their parents,their nation.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
It really went well for them, and things were like
God really blessed that.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
It's like it always ends up in more hurt and just
more depravity.
And it's like it's okay toacknowledge I love America.
It doesn't mean I'm celebratingslavery.
It's okay to acknowledge yeah,that wasn't right.
But look at all the things thatwere right and look at the
wrong things being made right.
Isn't that like the point of ifmy parents were the first ones
(40:48):
to be born again?
They're first generationbelievers and so I'm second
generation and I'm like man.
I want my kids, who are thirdgeneration, to go way further
than I went and their kids to besuper man, they really love God
, way further than I went.
Yeah, and their kids to besuper.
You know, man, they really loveGod, and it like.
But if anyone stops and theysay everything was stupid,
everything that my grandpa, whenhe got saved, that was stupid.
(41:10):
Yeah, it's like that, like youwere destroyed, and then you see
lines cut off, yeah, like what?
What happened?
It's like, like, so you see thewayward kids and it's like
that's sad because it's not justthem but it's the future
generations that are in jeopardy, and it's like oh, come back to
the Lord.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
That's funny Cause I was just thinking generationally
when you guys were talkingabout a lot of this.
It's like I take some qualitiesfrom my parents when I was
being raised by them that I'mfinding myself doing to my kids
now, which I like where thatcome from, you know kind of
scares you a little bit, good orbad, I guess.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
But but I think that's the thing that the Bible
is saying is good is you were tocarry on the values, the
principles, the identity andactually carry that name with
your shoulders back and yourhead high, like it means
something.
And if you're only ever wearingthe problems and not the good
things that came from it, if youdon't like your last name, if
(41:59):
you don't want to be associatedwith your family, the Bible is
telling you hey, there'sactually a riff in the way that
you perceive your relationshipwith God and how that is
supposed to affect yourrelationship with everyone else.
And so hear me when I say thischurch is winning the hearts of
the children back to the father,which is the whole idea of the
kingdom and what that's supposedto mean and how God you know
(42:22):
when Jesus came back is unitingthe hearts of the you know, the
children back to the fathers isthis idea that if you begin to
do that, there's kingdom workbeing done that is going to pay
dividends in the longterm whenit comes to the reign of Christ
and how that plays outthroughout time.
So churches need to focus onwinning the hearts of children
back to their fathers.
Kids carrying their name likeit means something, families
(42:46):
being the root of how thecommandments get a hold in
people so that they would livedifferently.
And when we do that, you changeeverything.
It's critical.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
It's critical.
That's so beautiful.
Come on, man.
Awesome.
That's probably it for time.
I don't know if you guys haveanything else.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
it's critical that's so beautiful.
Come on, man.
That's it for time.
I hope this was convicting.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I hope this was encouraging for you as a parent.
Get after it as always, writein any questions and if you want
some books, I'll send somerecommendations your way cool.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Thanks for having me on guys.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Thanks for being on bro it's always a pleasure have
a great week everybody.
Hey guys, welcome back to Navigate.
I'm with Justin, I'm here, dude, that's such a habit.
Now I'm trying to break thathabit, you know what, tim, I
really am.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
People still love you .
They love your voice, they loveyour deep.
I don't know, I don't think youcan call it a brogue.
Brogue is like an accent.
You just got a deep like abaritone thing going on, welcome
to Navigate.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
I've never heard that before.
Yeah, it sounds nice.
I'm doing it on purpose.
It's calming.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
It's calming.
The bigger your beard gets, thedeeper your voice goes.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Dude, you were the first one to notice my beard,
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
No, everybody notices I was going to shave it the
moment somebody said somethingwhat?
I want you to cut that thingand give yourself the.
What do they call it?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
A goatee or what?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
No, no, no, you know, you leave the sideburns and the
mustache and you just cut thechin?
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's not.
You should do that, theWolverine.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
It's killing me, mutton chops, mutton chops.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Mutton chops.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
That's what I was like for Reformation Month next
year.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Did you not have a beard at some point Me?
No, like I can't think of younot having a beard, oh no he's
just growing it out.
Yeah, yeah, it's.
Just See how it's growing onthe sides and like not.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But you always have.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Nobody on this podcast right now knows what
Facial hair though you alwayshave some facial hair right,
I've never seen you clean shaven.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
By the way, guys AJ is here notice.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
He's the third voice.
I'm confusing him, I know I hadto break in at some point
because I was like wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
If we're bringing up mutton chops.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
I am entering.
I thought you guys were goingto try to convince me, like he's
never had a beard, and Ithought, no, I saw this episode
of Star Trek and they tried tomake the guy.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Some people have been listening to the podcast
forever, never seen Tim.
They're like Tim has a beard,Tim has a beard.
With that voice he absolutelyhas a beard and he's the best
looking one here.
So you guys don't know, it'strue.
I'm quite the catch but youprobably already knew that.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Yeah, you could have seen with the voice.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's nice , it's nice, thank, right, yes,
number five.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Continuing into the Ten Commandments, we are in
number five.
Hot dog it's going to befantastic.
Last week we talked to one withJosiah was with us about the
Sabbath.
Yes, that's the fourth one.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, it was good.
I enjoyed talking about that.
I've since been a little bitmore.
I'll tell you what goingthrough these commandments has
made me more reflective ingeneral about the value of these
in society.
Like everyone should applythese in their life, you would
legitimately just be a betterChristian and more Christ-like
if you took the 10 commandmentsmore seriously and thought about
(02:32):
the implications that they havein life and society in general.
There's just a life and, let'ssay, heritage I mean we'll get
into some of this even today butjust there are implications of
living out the Ten Commandmentsin a greater way.
I know it sounds cliche, but Idon't even think people could
quote what the Ten Commandmentsare anymore.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, we know there's Ten Commandments.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
They're supposed to be really important.
Why?
But like Jesus, though, right.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
It's a Sunday school thing, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Like that's how we think about it.
We the Ten Commandments that'show you define biblical love,
that's what it's supposed tolook like Define Christian
culture.
The Ten Commandments that's howyou define Christian culture,
and each one of thesecommandments has subcategories
of how we would spell that outin different given situations.
These are it's the bedrock ofChristianity.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
And I just I don't even think we think about it
that way.
Those are principles I'vealready put into practice,
believe it or not, from theSabbath one.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
We did.
What did you start?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
doing bro.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Just the idea of rest and giving things to God.
Deepening my voice.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Mutton chops.
God gave it to me, I signed forit.
Listen, listen.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
If one of you people who are listening to the podcast
, if you send in a picture ofyou shaving your face into
mutton chops, I'll give you ashout out.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I will, they should have one of those navigate
hoodies, exactly we should.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Oh, I can get you a navigate hoodie.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Yeah, we should hook somebody up with that If
somebody sends a picture they'regoing to make navigate hoodies.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
We'll put a picture of your face on the navigate
hoodie.
That is not true.
Well, maybe Depends how goodlooking you are.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
The fifth commandment is honor your parents.
Honor your father and mother.
Yeah, um, I think that's why wehad aj come back, because every
time we talk family parentingyou always seem to be the guy we
think of.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Yes, thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I don't know why yet.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
But no, I'm just kidding I've got a lot of kids I
I wish I could say, man, I'mreally good at, uh, raising kids
or being a son, and'm I'm stillgrowing in both quite a bit
yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I think it would be weird if you started that off
with like I've arrived and thisis my.
I'm going to give everybodyparenting advice.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
If my kids all turn out really really good, I think
I'll say you should reallylisten to me.
I raised all my kids andthey're all serving the Lord,
but I'm like I don't want tostart talking like I know.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
And then my kids go off.
Serving so far, but the thingis the reputation of your
children precede you, Right,they do.
They go before you.
That's the whole point of likethe Psalm 127.
You having arrows in the handof a warrior, you getting to
stand in the gate with your kidsis're kind of this, this, you
know army of people behind you.
So when you would say something, there would be a greater
(05:09):
thrust of like me in this armybehind me.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
So I don't even think you have to say that if you do
it right, your reputation as afamily goes ahead of you and you
don't have to.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
So what about honoring your parents?
Has to do with parenting.
You know it sounds like acommandment for the child not
for the parents.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Let me.
Okay, so I love that you saidthat.
Can we start there for a second?
Okay, because there's two sidesof this and I almost want to
like can I frame thisconversation for a second Like?
This is important because we'restarting the second table of the
law, all right, so we have thefirst table, which is the first
four commandments about how weworship God, and then we have
the next set of commandmentswhich are telling us
(05:49):
functionally how that plays outin the life that we live with
the people around us.
We talked about the first set,the first four being loving God,
the last six being loving yourneighbor.
We've entered into loving yourneighbor, or, let's say, family
relationships or, let's you know, external relationships that we
have, not apart from God, butbecause of our relationship with
(06:11):
God.
So you have the firstcommandment, which is basically
loving the Lord, your God, right, with all your heart, soul,
mind and strength, which is abig deal.
And starting out with this iswhere everything begins.
And the first commandment, let'ssay the second table of the law
, starts at home.
This is important because whatit's saying is before any other
(06:32):
relationship, you got to get thehome right, you got to get
relationship with your family.
Right, because if it does notstart at home, nothing else
works, does not start at homenothing else works.
And what sucks about this, tim?
I think secular leftists,marxist people understand this
(06:53):
better than the church does.
Like Marx and I'm trying tothink of the guy that I want to
say, hegel, but I could be wrongHis whole point was if you
undermine the family, you willundermine the church, so you
need to do that.
His whole idea was if wedestroy the family, we'll
destroy religion itself.
(07:13):
Religion is based on this ideaof the family.
So if you hijack the family,you hijack everything else and
unfortunately, I think in a lotof ways there's been a huge
success with disconnectingfamily relationships.
How many people hate theirparents?
How many people talk aboutbroken homes?
How many people have no honorfor their father or mother at
(07:35):
all, like in any way?
It's just, it's not a thing.
Or if you love your parents,it's for all the wrong reasons.
Everybody's got baggage andit's been incentivized by a
culture that's taught you tobreak away from your family.
Thank you, disney.
I was talking to my daughterabout this, watching disney
films, and I was like, how comeevery?
It was uh.
Last one I watched was moanatim.
Okay, and you have theoverbearing family who's like.
(07:57):
You can never leave the wholebeginning of that song is like
and no one leaves.
It's like creepers, um.
And they set it up like youhave to break away from your
family and separate and besomething else.
Sociologists even came up withthis term teenager to create
this idea that, oh, when kidsturn into teenagers, they
(08:18):
obviously become nightmares andhave to create their own path
and do their own thing.
That's not a biblical teaching.
Okay, nowhere in the Bible islike and when they become
teenagers, they become crazy.
Just get just so you're ready.
That's going to happen.
That is a Marxist idea that hasworked its way into our culture
in such a strong way that ithas been breaking up families
for a very long time.
(08:38):
And now we have governmentofficials let's say talking
about they're not your kids,they're our kids, right,
national, you know, it's anational family and we'll tell
you how to raise your kids.
If you undermine the family, youundermine everything, and God
set up in the 10 commandments.
The first is you have to loveme.
I need to be at the center ofeverything, that is, your
(08:58):
relationship with me and withregard to everything else.
And then, secondly, when itcomes to everyone else, it
starts with the family and howthe family affects everything
else around you.
So when we set this up and wetalk about honoring your father
and your mother, as the Lord Godhas commanded you, that your
days may be prolonged and thatit may go well with you in the
(09:18):
land which the Lord, your God,gives you, I want you guys to
see the beginning of how he'ssaying revival truth.
You.
I want you guys to see thebeginning of how he's saying
revival truth.
Blessing.
All of this starts at home.
Revival starts at home.
Hope, joy, longevity thesethings start at home, and I
think we have a whole culturethat's set on undermining that
and telling you that that'sactually, that's actually the
(09:39):
wrong way to do things.
And, tim, I think we grew uptalking about how we didn't want
to get married because, oh,every marriage we saw was
miserable and everything waslike.
We had this idea of it that Idon't think was accurate because
of people that we knew.
I think it was accurate becauseof the culture that we lived in
.
You pick up on it.
Marriage isn't honored anymore.
Nobody cares if you're married.
In fact, if somebody said I'vebeen married for 20 years, it's
(09:59):
kind of this trite clap or I'msupposed to celebrate this, but
nobody really you know what Imean Actually wants to be
married for 20 years.
Right, you know.
Find somebody, better, findsomebody.
You know, I saw some.
I saw some ad dude.
It was wild.
Somebody took a picture of this.
It was this it was the samegirl who wrote both articles.
(10:24):
One was like how cheating on myhusband made me a better mother
, and then, two years later, anarticle that was like why do I
feel so inferior with otherwomen that aren't divorced?
It's like this is the ladywho's influencing our culture
and writing this stuff.
But that's the kind ofautonomous.
It's me.
I'm not part of anything else.
I have to make my own way.
I have to be my own person.
It's actually kind of killingus yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
I mean talking about honor in the family is just make
sure everybody's getting along,make sure there's less
arguments, make sure everybody'shappy when they come home,
because this is a home.
What are you talking about whenyou say honor in the family?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Well, let me bring it back even a step farther.
I think the way that we tend toview laws is human-centric.
So let me start by saying thiswe think to ourselves if I read
something in the Bible and thatsounds like it's something that
actually would benefit me, thenI must agree with it.
(11:22):
But if I read something and itdoesn't seem to immediately
benefit me, I don't really wantto do that and we would ask the
question why?
What's the point?
We don't have a.
God has commanded this.
You should do this.
Mentality.
We have a.
If this benefits me and I cansee how it benefits me, then
I'll do it.
Mentality.
And so I would start by sayinghonor in the family starts from
(11:44):
a place of what has God told me?
How am I supposed to treat myfamily around me?
Not necessarily well, what'spragmatic and what doesn't work.
So even when you just talkedabout this like what does that
really get along in the family?
And this, you're alreadythinking pragmatic terms of how
does this benefit me, not whathas God told me to do, that will
actually produce you know whathe worship?
And more praise for his nameand elevating him and and man.
(12:10):
I want to touch on somethingelse real quick too.
I feel like I'm I didn'trealize I had this much I wanted
to say.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
This commandment is in here for children and adults.
We I tend to think about thisonly for adults, because I was
raised in a more of a let's say,a baptistic home which thinks
that kids can't be Christiansuntil they've accepted Christ as
their savior at 22 or 23, afterthey've sowed wild oats and
(12:37):
been an idiot and actually gotregenerate.
This commandment is in herebecause it's expecting you to
talk to your children and tellthem honor your father and
mother, like they're supposed toknow who God is, and understand
these commandments and walk inthem in a way that's honoring to
him.
That's a big deal.
That means God is expecting youto raise your kids like
(12:57):
Christians and he's expectingthem to live in covenant
families and be able tounderstand the Ten Commandments
along with the rest of thefamily.
You should teach your kids thesethings, yes, so I think that's
a big deal, because a lot ofpeople think, oh, the Ten
Commandments are for adultChristians who already get it.
No, the Ten Commandments arerules for life.
Even before your kid totallyhas, let's say, a moment with
(13:19):
God where he totally getswrecked and it's awesome.
They should know these things,get them and be able to walk in
them, and the Bible is expectingyou to to get that.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's such a.
The burden falls on the parentsto teach their kids the 10
commandments and teach them theword of God.
And so if a kid's like I don'tknow how to honor my parents,
it's like, well, taught them tonot lie, steal, kill.
And so when we teach ourchildren the word of God and we
say this is what it says, andyou are going to honor me,
(13:50):
you're gonna respect me andyou're gonna love God.
This is the way we do things inour house.
If a kid doesn't know how to doany of those things and then
they go wayward and the parent'slike, well, they're just in
God's hands and God's like I putthem in your hands.
You were supposed to teach themthese things.
That's why I'm constantlytelling you like, teach them
this, say these things.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
When you lie down, when you rise up, put them on
your forehead, on your house, onyour wrist, when you go to
sleep.
You should be teaching thesethings.
And to your point, Tim.
It says do these things right,Honor your father and mother.
And if you're asking how do Ihonor my father and mother?
You just said it you shall notmurder, you shall not commit
adultery, you shall not steal,you shall not bear false witness
, you shall not covet yourneighbor's wife or your
(14:33):
neighbor's house or all thesethings.
You're teaching them principlesfrom everything the 10
commandments have given.
So, look, your kid may not belike well, I don't think my
small child is going to murderanybody.
Are you teaching them abouthatred?
Are you teaching them aboutwhere those things start and
where they go?
Hey, how you're treating yourbrother right now is murderous.
(14:55):
I'm going to take you to thestory of Cain and Abel.
Let me tell you a little bitabout this.
Let me tell you wherecomparison goes and how this
starts in your heart, where it'sgoing to take you if you don't
get this right.
What am I teaching them?
How to do, how to love, how tolove God and how to express that
love for God in therelationships around.
Okay, second table of the law.
This is basic, fundamentalthinking.
And where does where do welearn the rest of how these
(15:17):
commandments fall out in society?
At home, first, with yourfamily, and how to express these
things.
So I I don't mean to hijack thisand make it just about family
at first, because I do think weneed to talk about specifically
how do I honor my father andmother and what does that mean?
I really wanted to get peopleto understand the implications
and how important this actuallyis, because it's the framework
(15:38):
by which everything else isgoing to happen, because if you
have families teaching kids theright things across an entire
society, literally everythinggets better.
Everyone becomes on the samepage.
I'm not saying everything.
All the problems disappear.
I'm saying they all at leastwere at least now in the same
framework, where we know what isright and what is wrong and
(16:00):
we're not arguing about whetheror not our son is a daughter.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
It's not even in the same.
You hit on it about destroyingthe family and it's just like,
why wouldn't you go after, likelet's just try to make murder,
okay.
And it's like, just destroy thefamily that way.
It's like, and we'll teach thekids the rest of the rules,
we'll teach them about lying andstuff like that, but when you
destroy the family and it's likethere's no morals, there's no
such thing as right or wrong.
It's your truth.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yes it Well.
We bastardized education.
Yeah, if the family is not theplace where you learn truth and
you learn about God and youlearn how to express those
things, and you hand it over tothe state to tell them those
things and the state is going togive it its secular worldview
or I would say pagan worldviewat this point, and is going to
teach them for you.
We've talked about the publicschool system a little bit and
(16:51):
some of these different things.
And look, I could talk aboutwhere the church has failed,
where families have failed.
I think really, what I wouldjust like to communicate is the
bedrock of the family and howhonoring your father and mother
is a big deal.
And I will be the first to say,tim, I suck at this.
I've been borderline dreadingtalking about this particular
commandment, because I don'tthink I have done a great job at
(17:13):
this commandment in general.
I just haven't.
I love my dad, I love my mom.
Very difficult for me to figureout how to do this.
Well, I guess in the recentyears I've been getting better
at it and trying to figure outhow to make more sense.
Like I can sit down with my dadand talk about theology forever
.
We get along.
We love each other.
(17:33):
I love my mom.
We get along.
We can talk, trying to figureout how to let's say how to
express that honor to him in myfamily or in unique ways that
don't feel superficial or like Ijust came over for a holiday.
You know what I mean.
How do you actually developthat?
(17:57):
And I think the life that youlive in light of what your
parents taught you is probablythe greatest way to honor your
father and mother.
If they taught you to love theLord, raise godly kids, pour
into them, make a difference insociety, grow you know, pour
into your church, grow thekingdom.
If you're doing those things,you're probably honoring your
parents.
But I think maybe thedifference between what like,
(18:17):
maybe a key piece of that that Iwould tell people is that means
inviting your parents into thattoo.
Not just doing thatunilaterally, but actually
having them be a part of thatprocess.
Are your parents seeing what'sgoing on with your kids?
Are you asking them for wisdomabout particular circumstances?
Are you celebrating wins withthem?
Are you sharing losses andprayer requests with them?
(18:38):
I think we're supposed to dothat, and I'll be the first to
say I suck at it.
Um.
It's been hard for me, and Ithink part of that is because I
was raised in a generation thatdoes not value family or parents
and sees the greatest, um, thegreatest sense of becoming an
adult is actually abandoningyour family and not continuing
your family's legacy.
Those are two very differentthings.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think it's uh, I mean I don't
know who does it perfectlyhonoring their dad, but it's,
and it's one of those thingsthat you know we're honoring
imperfect people too, and we'reand I think people think, if I
would honor him for the thingshe did good, for things he did
right, but not all these things.
(19:20):
And it's like if we, if we'lljust take it as the commandment,
God saying to do this, and it'slike I will do it, and as we do
that and we start searching forthings, and it's like I want to
give my dad honor, and theymight, he might like there's
times where I've tried to givemy dad honor and he's just, it's
like, rejected it and that washurtful.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
He doesn't know how to take it.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
It's like, ah, but it's just like, the more we do
it, this is like the more that Ithink that for for my dad, the
more that he believes like Ireally am bringing this as a as
a as a offering of like I am,I'm trying to, I'm trying to
honor you, I'm doing that.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
That's good.
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think that that helps restore the relationship
and I'm thinking that's what Iwant my kids to do, is just like
I just want you to know, dad,even if I don't listen to your
advice, I really I really dorespect you, or like I'm
thankful for the things you'vegiven me and so like being able
to just like be thankful forwhat they did give and not
Britain throwing all their theirface.
You know, here's where youmessed up and man, my, my
parents actually like apologizedto me a few years ago for some
(20:16):
of the stuff they like as a team, and I was like you guys don't
owe me anything Like like I feltguilty, like you know, for the
years, thinking I wish theywould just realize.
And then, when they did, I waslike actually, you guys have
given me so much, and I thinkpeople usually they come to that
place when their parents dieand then they're like they did
(20:36):
so great and it's like all youdid was complain about them for
all this time.
Why didn't you just bring themsome of that stuff, that honor,
and be like thank you for doingyour best, and I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Well, I think you're touching on something that's
important here.
Tim, aj, sorry, the reality is,throughout Scripture we see
this principle you choose whatyou want to elevate and amplify.
Okay, when they talked aboutthe God of Abraham, isaac and
Jacob, did you know those people, right?
Okay, not great individuals.
(21:07):
A lot of mistakes.
A lot of big problems, likevery big problems.
You want to talk about David?
Okay, we're going mistakes.
A lot of big problems, likevery big problems.
You want to talk about David.
You want to talk about some ofthe issues in the family.
There's a ton of father wounds,father problems, mother wounds,
mother problems in.
Scripture, there's a lot ofthings that did not go right and
people who did not do the rightthings.
The Bible doesn't elevate theirsin as much as it elevates how
(21:32):
God used them despite thosethings.
And I think our goal, let's say, is adult children and man.
I could talk about some of thehow this applies to kids and
this how this applies to adultkids too but is choosing how you
want to talk about your parentsand telling the story in a way
(21:52):
that does give honor and showwhat they did really well, and
making that the thing that youwant to carry on.
Because if you elevate thelessons and the good things that
they actually did and what theywere able to provide, then what
you're handing down is an honorand a heritage of the good
things that God did, but ifyou're constantly elevating the
(22:14):
things that went wrong, you'renot really teaching lessons as
much as you're growingbitterness and a desire for
people to break off from thatand not be a part of those
people and what they did, and wedo this historically.
So this starts in the family,with how we view things, and
here's what my dad did and thenit turns into history.
Well, I can't listen to thisperson because they had this
(22:35):
going on in their life and itbecomes a witch hunt throughout
history.
If you're what the foundingfathers and what everybody else
did totally wrong and we can'tlisten to them because this
happened, okay, well, what youjust did is you showed me that
the way that you interpret lifeis through the lens of what
everyone else did wrong and howyou're going to be better and do
it different or at least Iwon't be that person.
Not look at the heritage of allthe good things that happened,
(22:57):
despite those difficult thingsthat went down, and how God used
them.
That's how the Bible tends totalk about history not through
the lens of what everyone didwrong, but how God blessed and
used them despite those things,and how they ended up having a
heritage of blessing and aheritage of godliness, despite
maybe not making all the rightchoices along the way, if they
(23:18):
did love the Lord and want tocontinue to pursue him.
And I think that's you'reteaching your kids how to
interpret life is like that andwe have a bunch of victims and
bitter people because we'vetaught everyone to focus on the
things that have gone wronginstead of telling the story in
a way that elevates God andelevates those people, despite
some of the mistakes that theymade.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Which is a big deal.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
For all the moms and dads out there.
I think it's important the waythat you talked about your kids'
grandkids or their grandparents, and like the way that they're
going to talk about us.
You know our kids are going totalk about us and we think I'm
doing great, or you know I'mdoing that it's like you know
they could.
It's easy to find dirt onanybody Just wait right, but the
(24:03):
more that we're like, and it'snot deifying them either.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think sometimes we think I can't honor my parents,
they're not Jesus.
It's like, no, they're not,they're not going to like.
It's okay to to admit the theirfaults, but maybe not be
focused on that and and beingable to to honor those things,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Well, and I'm look, if you're a parent out there too
and you, like you, got kids,you know, like man, I don't feel
like my kid.
They're disrespectful, they'rethis and that, especially if
you're in some kind of phasewhere you're just you're walking
through some difficulty, one ofthe best ways to get your kids
to honor you and be obedient toyou is for them to see you honor
God and be obedient to God, andI think you're supposed to
model what that looks like.
(24:43):
And oftentimes you go to waragainst your family instead of
go to war for your relationshipwith God when things get
difficult.
Family instead of go to war foryour relationship with God when
things get difficult.
And I would say look, your kidsare not your enemy.
You know what I mean.
Your wife is not your enemy,your husband's not your enemy.
In fact, when things getdifficult, focus on the first
four, do that really well, workreally hard at that and watch
(25:05):
the fifth commandment, you know,and the implications of the
fifth start to get better.
I don't mean immediately, but Iam saying these are functional
promises.
God is saying if you do thesethings, good things will happen.
And it is worth noting, tim,that this particular commandment
is a positive commandment.
Most of them are don't do this,don't do this, don't do this.
This is the first one that'slike do this, which tells me
(25:28):
that these other commandmentsare things that naturally you
tend to do.
This commandment is somethingnaturally you tend to not do.
It comes naturally to you tonot honor your father and mother
or not do the family thing aswell as you should, and we
should realize that, especiallyas men, I think our tendency is
to not want to carry on the nameidentity, respect.
(25:50):
You know the posterity of myfamily.
You know what I mean.
We don't think that way.
It's actually natural for us to, let's say, become more
degenerate, become prodigals,run the opposite direction, get
bitter instead of continuing tohonor and do the right thing.
This is a positive requirementGod is giving us with positive
blessing.
(26:10):
So this is something we tend toomit.
It's not commission, this isomission.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Well, I've always been curious about this question
.
I kind of want to get youropinions on it.
But let's say you have adishonored child who's just
constantly going against thegrain that you're trying to
teach.
Is his behaviors just a way ofshowing, hey, you failed me as a
parent?
Is their behavior the cause?
From the parent's sin,basically, or not teaching them
(26:42):
the right thing?
So is it the parent's fault fora kid's behavior?
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Yeah, many times that can be the case, but a child's
rebellion is going to still beon them.
And so you have, you know, inall the years working with
teenagers, we worked with lotsof parents who were totally
dishonorable, like they were notnecessarily worthy of honor.
And to teach those kids, yeah,your dad is a jerk is not
helpful to him.
And so it's like when I seewhen there was parents that
(27:09):
actually wanted help and we'd belike, read the Bible with your
kids, like talk about spiritualthings, do here's some good
practices, you know, get intochurch yourself, you know that
would give the kid less ammo.
Or just to you know they, thenthey couldn't say, as much, my,
my dad's just a hypocrite.
And you know when, when, asmuch, my, my dad's just a
(27:30):
hypocrite.
And, um, you know when, whenthere's hypocrisy, I'm like,
yeah, that's never going to begood for for for the kid.
But a parent, can you know, aparent can change that.
They can they.
They can, you know, starthonoring God with that.
But the, you know, I don't knowa teen's rebellion, even at the
end of the day, even if theirparents are hypocrites or
whatever, it's like, you've gotto still own up to your own,
(27:50):
your own life.
And yeah, because thecommandment doesn't say honor
your parents, as long as they.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
They were great people and you have great
stories to tell about them,right?
Yeah so it's true, right, likeyou.
And this again goes back tolike this story, how you
perceive and how you would wantto tell the story of your family
, what you would want to elevate, what you would want to
mitigate.
But, tim, I do think there's areality here to to AJ's point,
where there's there'sresponsibility on both sides of
(28:18):
things.
And I would say, if you, ifyou're a crappy parent, you know
what I mean, you might need totake some responsible for some
things, but really, what itboils down to is defined success
is apparent, no-transcript, andI would say a lot of people are
(28:40):
trying to measure the outcomeand not what they actually did.
Like pragmatically, like here'swhat I mean If I do these six
things, my kids will always comeout perfect.
Oh, okay, false, right, Nottrue, all right.
One of my favorite examples ofthis and this is something I
learned from my dad I was askingabout it to the kid.
(29:01):
I was like, hey, what happened?
Because it seemed like it gotwild there for a little bit with
this you know, siblings anddifferent things.
And he said, you know, he saidfor a long time I wore it
personally.
I was like what did I do?
I should have done thisdifferently.
And then he said and then Irealized you know, god was the
best father ever and his kidsstill blew the world up.
(29:21):
You know what I mean?
And I was like man, if youcan't breathe out after hearing
that, you don't get it.
You know like the picturereally is.
God is calling us to cultivatean environment and set our kids
up, equip them with what theywould actually need to succeed,
them with what they wouldactually need to succeed and to,
let's say, call them into thatpath.
(29:43):
But you cannot make someone dothe right things beyond a
certain reason.
The first, second table of thelaw is a little bit easier to
enforce.
Okay, don't murder anybody.
Yeah, societally, we can putstuff in place.
Don't commit adultery.
There's some things that arestatuary we can put in place.
Don't steal yeah, we can defendthat.
Hey, do I have idols?
A little harder to defend, alittle harder to figure that out
(30:05):
.
You can talk to people abouthow we grow in these areas, how
we make it better.
You got to model those things,but ultimately it is not on you
mom, dad, whether they are elector not.
You don't get to make thatdecision.
However, I do think there is aunique blessing and a unique
(30:26):
longevity that God promises forthose who will do these things
and I would say nine times outof 10, if dads and moms will
stay together, work through thedifficulty and continue on
despite what's going on withtheir kids, oftentimes, even if
there's a rough patch, you'llsee those kids come back and
thank their parents later,whether on this side of the
grave or the other side of thegrave.
I think about FrancisSchaeffer's son.
(30:49):
Francis Schaeffer was thisgreat kind of cultural apologist
, if you want to call him thatway, looking at history and how
God works through history andhow culture degenerates and this
kind of stuff happens.
And his son was like an atheist.
And then his dad died andeventually his mom died and his
son was their son, was not agood individual, he hated God.
(31:10):
And then, after his mom died,he wrote something like for some
paper or something.
He basically said OK, mom, youwin.
And everybody is like, ok, whatdoes that mean?
Is he saying, okay, now Ibelieve in God, you did it?
And it seems like that was theconnotation of what he was
writing.
There's something very powerfulabout you living the life that
you're, the way that you'resupposed to equipping your
(31:32):
children the way that you'resupposed to and then letting God
do the portion that you can'tdo on your own.
And I'll be honest, the moststressful and frustrating thing
about parenting is not beingable to change your children's
hearts the way that you want to.
You can only try to shape andmold.
You can direct, you can equip,but ultimately God is the father
and you have to trust your kidsto God, the father.
(31:53):
But but I do think there's a,there's an anointing and a
blessing that God puts onindividuals who will do these
things.
First, if you talk badly aboutyour own parents, if you don't
honor your own parents, if youdon't care about them, what in
the world makes you think yourkids are going to, are going to
love you and continue to do thesame stuff with you?
And I was talking to my wifeabout this the other day because
(32:14):
, like I was talking about myrelationship with my own family
man, I figured this out and Ihonor them, but I got to figure
out how to have them moreinvolved in this and that and I
was like because of my son is asdistant from you talking to my
wife is I am from my own mom.
I feel like I'm not going to beokay with that.
I got to start now and makethat better.
Because of my son doesn't loveand spend time with my wife, I'm
(32:37):
going to kill that kid.
You know what I mean.
I'm kidding, obviously but,like, but.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
That would be the most heartbreaking thing to you.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yes and I'm like, but I'm, I'm not.
Uh, am I orienting my life insuch a way that that's going to
be the case, or am I expectingsomething that I wasn't willing
to give?
And I think that should besomething that we all ponder.
Am I living out the thing thatI want them to do, or am I not
(33:06):
doing that thing and then itjust expecting them to figure it
out along the way?
And that's, that's omission.
I'm not being intentional aboutthis, I'm just expecting it to
work itself out.
That won't happen.
A family doesn't happennaturally.
A family degenerates naturallyand we have to actually work
hard to be intentional to makeit something special.
And I think biblically here,what it's saying is the root of
this, the foundation of this.
In the same way that you wouldhonor Father God in the
household, the first place thisshows up is honoring your
(33:29):
parents, who are the local,let's say, authority that God
has given in your life thatyou're supposed to honor,
respect and think through howyou live your life after.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
What if you had some crappy parents, though?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I think that it's on the Christian.
Let's say you're listening andyou didn't have good parents and
you're raising kids and it'snot as easy as you thought it'd
be, you know.
Then it's time to repent and belike okay, what do I need to
change my mind about and isthere something I need to go
honor my dad for?
(34:01):
And if you could find thosethings I'm like, I think there
could be healing in those places.
And I think that's where youstart to change your mind about
how you viewed him.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Or simple like hey, honor your parents doesn't mean
man, I just talked this dude upall the time, even though he was
not great at all.
I think it means elevating thethings that went well and then,
like the Bible, teaching somelessons about how things should
have gone if they had gone theright way.
I mean, I've said it before, Ithink my dad took, you know, a
step out of the darkness so Icould take two, right, I think
(34:35):
that's the goal.
That's a good way of saying hey, I don't think you got all the
way there in every area.
I think you got farther awayfrom the darkness so that I
could get even farther from that.
There's a progressivesanctification that should
happen in families and you seesome of this in scripture, where
you had a decent guy and thenhis son was able to do even more
because he did a little bit toget him out of the hole.
(34:58):
Now, sometimes you see that gothe opposite direction too, and
then you can look at some of theparenting principles and you're
like, yeah, it was kind of aterrible dad.
It makes sense.
That was the case, right?
I do think it's important toyour point Tim, measure success
and where there was success.
Celebrate that when there wasnot.
Teach from it.
But I don't think honor evermeans talk trash about.
(35:20):
And but I don't think honorever means talk trash about, and
I've been guilty of that in mylife.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
Well, and I think, offering forgiveness too, where,
like the times that I know Iwas damaged in my heart and that
it was that it was the Lord wasrequiring of me to change and I
was like, but I'm not the onethat did the hurtful stuff, but
it's like well, when you startto forgive and you start to even
tell your you know the thingsmy parents didn't do so well on,
(35:43):
instead of saying I'm going todo better than my dad did with
you, as it's like I forgive mydad for not doing that the Lord
actually had to show me this,and where he brought good men
into my life to show me some ofthese things.
And now I want to teach you andlike yeah, of course, like,
because your, your grand, yourgrandpa wasn't perfect.
They might've missed this, Ithink offering like just lots of
(36:07):
mercy towards that and and andbeing like don't hold it against
them.
I'm not, I'm not holding thisagainst my dad, so you can't
hold it against you know,grandpa, or something, and the
more we do that, that that's anhonoring way to talk about a
person, and so if it's like well, I guess I had to learn
everything from God it's likegreat, then you can offer mercy
towards them.
God loves that man so much andhe didn't.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
He just didn't know better, and so this goes into
Tim too, like the idea that theBible has about the significance
of a name and how you aresupposed to own who you are and
who your father was in a uniqueway that we don't do today in
society.
My last name is significant.
It came from somewhere.
It means something.
(36:47):
I should care about that.
I should want to extend theidentity, the values and the
significance that my family namehas bestowed on me by way of
birth.
God chose the family that I'min.
He picked who my parents wouldbe.
He's given me the name that Ihave and I'm supposed to carry
(37:07):
that with weight.
Like in the Old Testament, youhad these different tribes.
What tribe are you a part of?
Who are your people?
What are the significant thingsthat we know about these
different tribes and what theycarried and why it mattered, and
the victories that they had andthe significant special things?
Now, this tribe did that andthese people did this, and these
people did that to the pointwhere if somebody was, you know,
(37:29):
born into a family and let'ssay you're, you know your
husband died or you knowwhatever you know the brother of
this family had to go ahead andtake this woman on as a wife to
make sure that he was able tohave offspring and continue to
maintain this land and his stuffand his name, and why it was
significant.
We don't think in thosecategories today, but the Bible
(37:51):
is saying, man, your family,your name, where you're born,
who you're born to, hassignificance and you're supposed
to own that and God is actuallyexpecting you to do that.
You see this degeneracy, even inour culture, where people are
like I don't want to be calledan American.
Well, god put you here in thisnation, in this place at this
time.
It does have significance, itdoes mean something and you're
supposed to carry that and ownthat.
(38:12):
And in the same way, you seepeople dishonoring their fathers
and you see them dishonoringtheir cultures and their pastors
and whatever else.
They also hate their own nationbecause they've learned to
interpret life in this kind ofrebellious way that we don't
always think about.
This is why the Bible callsrebellion is the sin of
witchcraft, because the ultimatesin was Satan rebelling against
(38:35):
Father, god and doing his ownthing.
And how we see this in thefamily is children rebelling
against their godly parents anddoing his own thing.
And how we see this in thefamily is children rebelling
against their godly parents anddoing their own thing, and this
whole.
I don't like my family, I don'tlike my name, I don't like my
father, I don't like my nation,I don't like what I'm a part of.
All of that is demonic to itscore.
It's satanic.
It's this belief that what Iwas born into and who I am, and
(38:58):
life and all this stuff that, tome, is the essence of
witchcraft and it's taking you atotally different direction.
The identity of what your namerepresents and what you're
supposed to carry on is a bigdeal in families and it stems
from this.
If I had a bad dad, you knowwhat I mean.
And again, I'm going to do whatI always do.
(39:18):
I'm going to take it back tothe garden.
He says did God really say?
He's assaulting God's character.
He's saying God's not reallygood, he's holding out on you,
he's not giving you what heshould give you.
So you should doubt what hesays because you don't believe
he's good, which are the twoaxiomatic principles that every
deconstructionist has.
If I can find something Iperceive to be a problem, then I
(39:42):
can discredit everything thatthis person has done that is
good, that is not grace and thatis not mercy, which was at the
heart of what you're saying,pastor AJ, this idea that, like
no, we should give grace, weshould give mercy.
We should forget why.
Because those are biblicalprinciples about how we handle
things, not burn it down becauseI found something I dislike.
Speaker 3 (40:02):
Yeah, and you're saying this thing about the sin
of witchcraft and it's like doesit ever like, when people have
this deconstructionist viewabout their life or about their
nation you know their parentsit's like does it ever yield
good fruit?
Can you think of I mean, Ican't think of one example where
it's like man, they reallydishonored either the church
they grew up in, their parents,their nation.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
It really went well for them, and things were like
God really blessed that.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
It's like it always ends up in more hurt and just
more depravity.
And it's like it's okay toacknowledge I love America.
It doesn't mean I'm celebratingslavery.
It's okay to acknowledge yeah,that wasn't right.
But look at all the things thatwere right and look at the
wrong things being made right.
Isn't that like the point of ifmy parents were the first ones
(40:48):
to be born again?
They're first generationbelievers and so I'm second
generation and I'm like man.
I want my kids, who are thirdgeneration, to go way further
than I went and their kids to besuper man, they really love God
, way further than I went.
Yeah, and their kids to besuper.
You know, man, they really loveGod, and it like.
But if anyone stops and theysay everything was stupid,
everything that my grandpa, whenhe got saved, that was stupid.
(41:10):
Yeah, it's like that, like youwere destroyed, and then you see
lines cut off, yeah, like what?
What happened?
It's like, like, so you see thewayward kids and it's like
that's sad because it's not justthem but it's the future
generations that are in jeopardy, and it's like oh, come back to
the Lord.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
That's funny Cause I was just thinking generationally
when you guys were talkingabout a lot of this.
It's like I take some qualitiesfrom my parents when I was
being raised by them that I'mfinding myself doing to my kids
now, which I like where thatcome from, you know kind of
scares you a little bit, good orbad, I guess.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
But but I think that's the thing that the Bible
is saying is good is you were tocarry on the values, the
principles, the identity andactually carry that name with
your shoulders back and yourhead high, like it means
something.
And if you're only ever wearingthe problems and not the good
things that came from it, if youdon't like your last name, if
(41:59):
you don't want to be associatedwith your family, the Bible is
telling you hey, there'sactually a riff in the way that
you perceive your relationshipwith God and how that is
supposed to affect yourrelationship with everyone else.
And so hear me when I say thischurch is winning the hearts of
the children back to the father,which is the whole idea of the
kingdom and what that's supposedto mean and how God you know
(42:22):
when Jesus came back is unitingthe hearts of the you know, the
children back to the fathers isthis idea that if you begin to
do that, there's kingdom workbeing done that is going to pay
dividends in the longterm whenit comes to the reign of Christ
and how that plays outthroughout time.
So churches need to focus onwinning the hearts of children
back to their fathers.
Kids carrying their name likeit means something, families
(42:46):
being the root of how thecommandments get a hold in
people so that they would livedifferently.
And when we do that, you changeeverything.
It's critical.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
It's critical.
That's so beautiful.
Come on, man.
Awesome.
That's probably it for time.
I don't know if you guys haveanything else.
Speaker 1 (43:00):
it's critical that's so beautiful.
Come on, man.
That's it for time.
I hope this was convicting.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
I hope this was encouraging for you as a parent.
Get after it as always, writein any questions and if you want
some books, I'll send somerecommendations your way cool.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Thanks for having me on guys.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Thanks for being on bro it's always a pleasure have
a great week everybody.
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