Reclaiming Biblical Roles In Dating

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Modern dating culture has created a mess where men increasingly avoid commitment, women struggle to find suitable partners, and both sexes experience profound confusion about their roles. This reality-check episode dives deep into why so many Christians remain single despite genuinely desiring marriage.


For Christian men seeking godly relationships, we provide practical guidance: establish financial responsibility, demonstrate church leadership, maintain physical fitness, and recruit a "wingman" (a married Christian friend) to help facilitate social interactions. We challenge men to find security in their identity in Christ before pursuing relationships, as women aren't looking for projects but partners.


Ready to transform your approach to dating with biblical wisdom? Listen now and discover how to navigate relationships with confidence, clarity and Christ-centered purpose. Then share your questions by texting us through the link in our description - we might answer them in a future episode!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Navigate everybody.
Yes, If you are single andready to mingle, you are in the
right place.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm your host Tim.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
Oh man Got my co-host Justin.
What's up, buddy?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
We just reached a whole other group of people Keep
going with the train.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Right now I'm on a roll Tell them Single, ready to
mingle.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Listen to.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
And we have our singles expert with us.
Mr Bo, oh my gosh man, that's aSetting the stage for you.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Really.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
That's a tough spot to land on, that's a, that's I.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Better bring the heat today, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
You better.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, bo's been with us on a few of the dating ones
we've done, so we brought himback, you know.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I don't know why, but we did.
I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
So it was years ago that we were, um, you were
single and we were working onfiguring out, uh, kind of
working through like dating andwhat that looked like, and then
you got married, I think.
Uh, six months after you gotmarried, we did another podcast
kind of on like okay, here'swhat happened, here's where
we're at, and the world aroundus is kind of a mess.

(01:16):
When it comes to thisparticular topic, men seem to be
pretty incompetent in someareas where they could use some
help and uh, I think the, the,the landscape has changed
dramatically in a way that hasnot benefited women at all, and
uh, I think it's at least worthtalking through some more

(01:37):
aspects of the landscape haschanged in some ways, but I'm
under the impression, guys,these days just like being
single more.
Man, it's safer.
Yeah, it's safer.
I think you know the reality.
The statistics are pretty crazythat something like you have a

(01:59):
65% chance you know, if you'rean average dude of ending up in
divorce.
And if you end up in divorce,there's no benefit to you as a
man in that process.
Basically, you're just going tolose half your paycheck,
whatever it is, through alimonyto whoever it is that you

(02:20):
decided to marry.
And so a lot of guys are likewell, I don't have to get
married to have sex.
There's a lot of easierpathways to make this happen.
I can use women instead of themusing me, and I can avoid the
commitment without puttingmyself in a place where I'm
going to cannonball the rest ofmy life.
Because I think a lot of guyshave seen how it goes when you

(02:44):
go through a divorce, what youwalk through and how bad it can
go for that person.
It can destroy everything.
They built up to a particularamount of time for what you know
a five or six year fling thatended in heartache.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, you know, but for a godly guy who may has been
single for years and was like Iwant a wife, what's some like
advice things to do, somethingthat he could read Like what is
some good proactive things thatthey could do?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
Man, I tell you what I think.
It's interesting because you'retalking about it being
comfortable and truly outside ofthe church.
It's like Russian rouletteright.
It's like playing duck duckdamn.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Yeah, man.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Because I mean, what established marriage and what is
it that says marriage is themost important relationship
besides the one you have withGod?
Yeah, it's.
God, and so that's ultimately.
I mean, if you're going to belooking for that, it has to be
within the church in order toshed that mentality of playing

(03:49):
Russian roulette Totally.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
And I would also say there's an element where I have
found that men who struggle tofind a solid wife oftentimes are
people who struggle in theirown identity and having a
certainty in who they are, andthen attach this idea of
security actually to the womenthat they're hoping to date, as

(04:14):
opposed to finding security intheir own relationship with
Jesus and who they are.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
So you think you're saying marriage solves that
problem.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
No, I'm saying there's a lot of young men who
aren't sure about who they areand they're trying to find that
stability in a woman.
And it's actually one of themost off-putting things to a
woman, because at least a solidwoman that you want to be with,
because they're not looking fora child, they're looking for a
husband, and if you find a girlthat is interested in having a

(04:43):
child instead of a husband,that's not going to go well
either.
You might be a match, but you'rea match made in hell, not the
way God intended.
So to Beau's point, like okay,well, how are you with God?
How are you at being a man?
Do you know what it even meansto be a man before you're
thinking about how to get into arelationship with somebody of
the opposite sex and this is whywe have this term now simping

(05:12):
right, like this idea that Iwill become whatever, I'll do,
whatever I'll be, whatever, aslong as I get her attention and
I you know it's interesting andwe we didn't even discuss this
in a little bit of the lead up,but it's like, um, the whole uh,
birth control thing right Dude,is this almost drives women
towards more feminine men rightand then.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
So then they get.
They get married to this manget off of birth control and
they end up resenting who theymarried, because when you're off
birth control, you want a maninstead of a feminized man.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's a weird deal.
There's a, there's a thestudies on this.
I'm sure I think it was JordanPeterson who first actually
showed a study on this and I waslike, is this real?
What they basically tracked waswomen that are on birth control
, like men without facial hair,like skinnier, less threatening,

(06:04):
less impending, less lumberjacktype guys, and so what you end
up with is our entire culture.
All the young men started totrend towards what women wanted,
who were on birth control.
So instead of like masculinemen with beards, wearing
flannels, working hard, jobs,grease under their fingers,
doing stuff, it was all the guysare becoming skinny, jean,

(06:27):
tight haircut, no facial hair.
And if you're wondering, like,how did that happen?
Is an entire culture of mensimping because birth control
was changing the, let's say, thesexual priority for women and
and and George Gilder paintsthis in his book men in marriage
.
But he makes the point womenare sexually dominant, which

(06:50):
means that men are generallydoing things that, uh, are that
women want so that they canactually get married, so that
they can find find a spouse,find a mate.
Women set the um, the rules forhow that's supposed to work.
God created it that way, and soyou have a whole generation of

(07:10):
guys like okay, if these are therules now, so that I can get
married and do this.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, it's almost survival.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
It very much is it's like then I will cool.
I mean, you know, I'm not anevolutionist, but I think you
can learn from nature.
You see these birds, you knowlike, oh, I got to do this, I'll
do this stupid dance.
Or you know, you see it withmonkeys or whatever it's the,

(07:36):
the males are doing things totry to attract or win over the
females.
This is not untrue of of howGod created us.
Men are supposed to work hardto produce, we're supposed to.
We're supposed to make money.
We're supposed to build houses,we're supposed to protect.
Those are supposed to be theprimary things.
And what are?
What are the general thingsthat women are looking for?
Protection provision, somebodywho's going to be a good father
to my children those aresupposed to be the normal things

(07:57):
, but insert birth control and Iwould just say feminism in
general.
Just meddling, yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:04):
The world meddling in God's creation?
Birth control is that.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (08:10):
And it has skewed so many of the appetites that have
historically been there for menand women.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
But these appetites, too, have been labeled toxic in
a lot of ways too.

Speaker 2 (08:23):
Totally, Totally yeah .

Speaker 3 (08:24):
Toxic masculinity is is just masculinity and actual
toxic masculinity, I wouldn'tcall masculinity, that would be
like cultural tampering, right.
But birth control, it would behormonal chemistry tampering.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Well, and then it becomes family tampering and
cultural tampering, because, tim, I don't know if you becoming
this skinny-jeaned shaved face,I'll work at home, I'll take
care of the kids we all havebeards, by the way and what are

(09:08):
the women doing because of that?
Thank you, yeah, the women areall becoming highly educated
business people who are like thebreadwinners and the go-getters
, and the guys are like I'llstay home with the kids and put
the apron on, sweetheart, butthat's actually.
It's a stereotypical joke thatI'm making.
Yeah, but ironically, that'swhat's actually happened is

(09:29):
birth control has turned womeninto more of a type of man,
because it's denying the very,let's say, biological structure
that they're supposed to follow,and because women are sexually
dominant.
Men are then simping andbecoming women, and then, when
women are in their thirties andforties and accomplished,
they're looking around for men.
So, and then we have theprinciple of hypergamy to deal

(09:52):
with.
Could I?

Speaker 3 (09:54):
and I don't know, before you bring up the
definition of what that is causeI but like I almost feel like
this is in a conversation in theworld Right and I think it.
It does spill over into thechurch a lot of times, but I
think obviously the goal wouldbe for the church to be a safe
haven from that type oftampering and so, when it comes

(10:17):
to that sort of environment,still being a man is attractive.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
Yes, right.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
Being a man, knowing your identity as a man, knowing
your identity in Christ as a man, yes, is going to be one of the
most powerful, attractivethings you can be for a woman.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, you say that, but then you, just before that
you were like it's notattracting to women anymore.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
In a worldly sense, when you're trying to just get
laid, you know for lack of abetter word.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Yeah, there's two senses here.
Okay, so you have, like deep,real desires and you have
surface desires, yeah, okay so,tim, think about it this way
there's a girl that you wouldfind attractive that you would
not marry, and there's a guythat women would find attractive
that you would not marry.
And there's a guy that womenwould find attractive but they
would not marry.
Why?
Well, because there's a set ofcharacteristics that are

(11:11):
immediately appealing to me andthere's a set of characteristics
that are, on a grander scale,more let's say, long-term going
to work.
For me.
That makes sense.
Yeah, so the simping that'shappening is because men are
trying to get their foot in thedoor, but those guys don't make
it in the long run becausethey're actually not solid
individuals.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
Well, they're not who they are the bow is making.
They're not the person they'reselling themselves to be.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
They are a.
They're an attempted responseto what they think a woman wants
them to be, to what they thinka woman wants them to be, which
means that I am recreating theidea of man in the spouses and
my spouse's image.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
But when you stand on solid, when you stand on solid
ground, there's something you're, you're the center of gravity,
yeah, um, which I think is kindof like some of those tools that
we were, we were going todiscuss.
Those are some of the thingsthat if, if you've identified
yourself as that person whoknows who you are, your

(12:09):
identification is solidified,you are abandoned to Christ, but
you're clueless on how to, youknow, have a conversation with a
girl.
Yeah, then it's like these aresome of the things that we need
to talk about.
Yeah, right, a conversationwith a girl.
Then it's like these are someof the things that we need to
talk about.
Yeah, right, and it's like,because so many men they're

(12:29):
dudes, are weird, man, you know,like, like you're going on a
first date talking about weirdstuff, like brother, like you
don't bring that stuff up on afirst date.
Man, like you know, like, bringthat up, like three months down
the road when you, when you'vebuilt enough of a rapport with a
girl to joke around withsomething like that, you know.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, it's.
We talked about it a little bitbefore, tim.
But those three words for lovein the Hebrew, raya, achaya and
dod.
Raya is friendship.
Achaya is choosing somebodyafter you've seen that they're
not totally put together, or allthe weird things.
And then dode literally meanssouls coming together.
It's sex, All right.

(13:10):
So in our culture what we'vedone is we've, we have sex, we
become friends and then we findout they're crazy and leave.
But the Bible's picture isyou're supposed to become
friends.
Then you actually see some ofthe things in somebody's life
that are maybe weird or outthere, which is kind of what
you're appealing to.
Bro, if you're bringing up yourweird obsession with anime,
like on the first time you meet,like get out of here.

(13:32):
And if you're like, what do youthink about my obsession with
this particular comic book orsomething, those are not things
you should be doing.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
But even at that like bring it up and be aware enough
to know that it's a littlefringe and make fun of yourself
for it?

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Yeah, for sure, own it.
Yeah, own the.
You're not going to themlooking for acceptance.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yes, yeah.
So you're not trying to coverit up, but what you're doing is
you're owning it and making funof everything you are, because
you're so confident in youridentity that it's like, yeah,
this is what I do.
I mean, hey look, you can clownon me all day long for it, but
it's been an interest of mine.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
I did that with my wife because I have this weird
obsession with dragons, and shedidn't know that until we got
married.

Speaker 3 (14:17):
And then you uncovered all the dragons she's
like what is this?

Speaker 1 (14:20):
Then she opened my closet and there's a statin.
No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
So this is my gargoyle that I want on our
first touch.
This is my night outfit.
I am such a closet nerd.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
But you're right, it wasn't my identity, it was just
something I can make fun ofmyself.
For that I like yeah.
And she accepts it and she buysme a bunch of cool stuff now,
well, and she has those thingstoo.
Oh, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Absolutely, but they, I would say they're a little
bit more sane in that women tendto care more about what's going
on on the surface than men do,and men tend to be willing to
talk about weird things that youknow, their whatever IPA they
tried last week and their weirdthing that they're into with
other guys.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
But if you're dealing with the opposite sex, the goal
is to actually portray theperson the strongest qualities
that you have have, not theweirdest things that you're
interested in, but you want theother person that's kind of
share some of the interests,like you right, so I do love
anime.
I would want somebody I'mtalking to do you like anime,
because if not, this is whyyou're gonna work well, let me
talk about that dynamic.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
that's really important.
Okay, listen, the purpose of ummarriage has become, in our
culture, happiness, which has,in turn, made unhappiness
grounds for leaving your spouseand finding somebody else with
the potential of more happiness.
You're talking aboutcompatibility, almost, yeah,

(15:37):
yeah, yeah, but here's what Imean.
So, when you're talking aboutthis, tim, what you're saying is
doesn't it make sense to findsomebody who enjoys the same
things that I enjoy, so that Ican guarantee our happiness that
that way, I know that we'llwe'll be happy, and if we find
things that make us happytogether, then then I know that
we found something that islong-term.
And I'm saying, actually that'sthe opposite.

(15:59):
Like, the goal is not to findlike these are areas where we
disagree with.
Start there, let's try to know,like, obviously you're looking
for chemistry, you're looking toget along with the person in
general, but not with regard tothe specific hobbies and weird
things that you find the mostenjoyable.
The goal is first to find aspouse who has the virtues and
values that you would want tofind in an individual that go

(16:23):
beyond immediate happiness orthings that I feel like are
going to just be enjoyable.
It's is this person going to bea good mother to my children.
Are they nurturing, are theycaring, are they willing to
listen?
Do they love Jesus?
Are they consistent?
Are they a?

Speaker 3 (16:38):
flirt with everybody.
Are they going to put youbefore anything?

Speaker 2 (16:42):
else, anyone else and some of the things I'm looking
for.
How do they talk about theirfamily?
How does she talk about, like,if I'm a man?
How does she talk about her dad?
What is her involvement in thechurch been?
Yeah, how does she?

Speaker 3 (16:53):
act around her brothers.
So I think that's anotheraspect of like identifying a
woman in church Just because shegoes to church, or, you know,
just because she, you, becauseshe is on a serving team or
something, that doesn't meanshe's solid.
Like is she leading a group ofwomen?

(17:14):
Like what sort of involvement,what sort of characteristics are
actually there that are ofsubstance?
Yeah Well, and there's a weirdthing here too, and there's so
much that we could talk about inthis category, but this is a
good conversation, which youknow, I mean, we can talk about
tools and things like this, butyou know uh, Nancy brought it up

(17:35):
too is is like ultimately, yourservice in the church is going
to direct you towards yourspouse house.

Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah, it should, yeah , it should, or at least yeah.
Your intentional participationbeyond a Sunday morning is
what's going to direct you.

Speaker 3 (17:50):
And also it also shows that that's not your
primary motive.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
But?
But can I tell you how thechurch tends to undermine this?
And I think we're in a churchthat does an excellent job of
not doing this.
But I would say in a lot ofchurches that I've been to and
I've grown up in churches is theway that we talk to men about
being men is basically tellingthem to be more like females.
Hmm, just be like.

(18:15):
We have this narrative like um,guys, if you just be the
sweetest, kindest, most caringman, women are going to find
that attractive and it's likeactually, no, well, that's not
that's not really true.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
I wouldn't agree with that.
I mean, but who's?
Who's the who's the guy thatcan get all the girls the jerk?

Speaker 2 (18:36):
right, or at least let's say the assertive person,
the person who does haveopinions, who is straightforward
, who isn't going to just bendwhenever something happens, but
oftentimes at least, growing upin the church, for me and a lot
of the churches that I went to,it was like the leaders of those
men were effeminate pastors whowere raising a bunch of beta
males, and then real guys whoreally love Jesus, who are

(18:58):
actual solid masculineindividuals wouldn't be caught
dead in that church.
And then you have a bunch ofwomen looking around like where
are all the men at?
Because these guys arebasically my little brothers who
are simping right, trying to ifI just be nice enough and sweet
enough and kind enough andChristian enough, like listen,
I'm trying to be kind here, butI'm going to be straightforward,

(19:18):
kind enough and Christianenough.
Like listen, I'm trying to bekind here, but I'm going to be
straightforward.
Being a good Christian in thatcultural sense does not make you
dating material, like knowingwho you are in Christ and acting
on your identity in Christabsolutely does.
And I think those are differentthings.
And a lot of guys come in andthey're like if I'm a really
good Christian and I do a lot ofBible studies and I really get

(19:42):
my porn problem under control,then she'll notice we still
haven't reached you, walking ina masculine identity that Christ
has called to you.
That's you just trying to do?
Check off, a checklist so thatyou think somebody in the church
will notice you, which is not.
They're not the same things.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
Yeah, uh, I mean, I, I think about it like one of
these kind meager, you know,type of guys.
Well, I mean, justin Peterson,like you said, he he talks about
this like you have to becapable of of danger, you know,
you have to be capable of beinga monster, and why?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Because that that gets conveyed to a woman to
where you know it's like,because that's what she's
looking to protect her familylater that and, but it's like
all right.
What about?
You know?
Am I looking for a man whoblows away in?

Speaker 3 (20:37):
the wind, or am I looking?

Speaker 2 (20:39):
for a formidable spouse.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
Well, also, I mean, think about sexual intimacy too.
Right, like, do you want a guywho's like hey, like, um, well,
you know, or do you want a guywho's going to take control?
You know, what does a womenwant?
There's a reality that men aresupposed to be masculine.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Women are supposed to be feminine and kind of what I
was getting at earlier with someof what's gone on in our
culture is a lot of the feministideals have trickled into the
church.
Women are now pastors, womencan be leaders, women can do all
this stuff.
We've pushed them down too long.
And then the other side of thatis men are becoming taking on
more feminine characteristics.

(21:21):
They're dressing in the tightpants, they're every.
Let's talk about worshippastors for a second right, I
won't.
I'm just making a point thatthere's a type of man that is
being recreated in the image offemininity and there's a type of
woman who is being recreated inthe image of masculinity and
it's a type of woman who's beingrecreated in the image of
masculinity and it's actuallyjacking us up.
It's messing us up really badand we're wondering why divorce

(21:43):
rates are skyrocketing.
Single being a single ingeneral is so much higher.
Tim, we looked at a statistichere for our campus in Inglewood
and the demographic is 40%single, 40% single in this area.
That means like almost half ofthem aren't in families.

(22:05):
Uh, at this point which is acrazy statistic to think about
that half of half of thatparticular neighborhood, which
is very affluent and has a lotof old money, even is is not
married, and it tells you a lotLike that's where we're at as a
culture.
We don't know how to dorelationships, we don't know how
to do marriage, and then wethink.
I think sometimes that that'sdisconnected from what's

(22:28):
happening in the church, butultimately the church is dealing
with the world and if you don'taddress what's happening in the
world, then the congregants gettheir information from the
world instead of from the church.
So Then the congregants gettheir information from the world
instead of from the church.
So where we don't talk aboutsex, where we don't talk about
how to address a woman, how toaddress a man, how to?
We better talk about theproblem of pornography beyond

(22:48):
just saying it's bad.
We better talk to women aboutwhat men are actually looking
for.
They're not men are not superhyped up that man.
When I think about a girl thatI'm interested in, I'm really
looking for someone who's highlyeducated, very affluent, you

(23:09):
know, and super rich, doingreally well as a business.
Somebody who is looking for thatis a weirdo and is looking for
a mom not a spouse Right, andwomen are not looking for guys
who make less than them, who areshorter than they are, who are
weirder than they are and lesseducated than they are.
This was the principle ofhypergamy that I was talking
about earlier.
Women date and marry up almostexclusively, and men generally

(23:32):
date straight across or down.
That's usually how that works.
And so in the church, if youhave a bunch of um people that
are coming in, that are single,that have been in the world, who
have been chewed up and spitout by the system, and then they
come into the church and you'reunwilling to address those
things or teach people, hey,this is actually what guys are
looking for.
This is actually what girls arelooking for.
You need to.

(23:53):
You actually need to becomewhat Christ has called you to be
, or this is never going to work.
You'll continue to anesthetize,if you're a man, your issues
with pornography and OnlyFansand hookup culture, instead of
finding something solid, becauseyou can't find anybody who
doesn't make more than you, whoisn't more educated than you or

(24:14):
higher up on the businesshierarchy than you are.
For women, they can't findanybody who's at their level
because they're more educatedand more affluent than all the
guys.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
Yeah, I mean to kind of consolidate a lot of this and
we've talked about is likeultimately, finding your
identity in Christ is going totake you into places, into all
the places you need to go.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
That can take a lifetime for some folks.

Speaker 2 (24:39):
Well that's unfortunate.
Can I bring up anotherrelational principle here that I
found very interesting?
Single women, I have found, whohave kids or are divorced
generally are looking formarried men, not single men.
Here's what I mean, becausewhen you actually get married,

(25:00):
if you're a man, there is amaturing element that happens.
Women mature men.
This is why men are like Iwould sleep on the same mattress
without a sheet for 20 years ifI was not married.
Now we have sheets, we live ina house, there's curtains, I
have an actual set of china.
Women do domesticate men.
It's a really good thing thatthey do.

(25:20):
Now you can go too far, I mean,you talk about that, but
there's like a good thing thathappens there.
And oftentimes, if you're asingle woman that's young, who
has kids, you're looking forsomebody that's like put
together and has already walkedthrough the process of being
domesticated a little bit andbecoming more of a gentleman by
being married, and so they'relooking around at the age group

(25:40):
that's around them and they'reonly like there's a bunch of
boys who don't wantresponsibility or don't want
this stuff and all the peoplethat they're constantly asking
where are all the men?
All the men are the ones thatare married and they don't
realize that.
Oh no, you have to marry someof those young, slightly
immature guys before they becomethe actual mature guy that you
wanted them to be in the firstplace.
I mean, bo, that's kind of someof your story, yeah A little

(26:03):
bit right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
What I was going to go back to about the solidifying
your identity in Christ, though, yeah, is a lot of times a lot
of these guys are thinking likeman.
The possibilities of meeting agood woman who sold out to
Christ are just so slim, and soyou almost get it in your head
where you're already defeated.
Yeah, that you're not going tobe able to find that that's

(26:24):
never going to happen.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
That's a good word.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
But the thing that I think about is like God has
multitudes to choose from tobring somebody into your life,
and he'll do that when he knowsyou're abandoned to him and
you've set that, or you'vehanded're abandoned to him and
you've set set that, or you'vehanded that over to him, and so
a lot of this kind of it boilsdown to that right, like you can
have tools and you can helpyourself out for sure.

(26:49):
Um, but a lot of it just boilsdown to like if you think that
the odds are totally against youand your chances are so slim,
you have to go back to the factthat, with the Lord, anything is
possible.
Man, he has got so many peopleto choose from for you that he
can coordinate the steps to beput in place for that person to

(27:10):
come into your life.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, just as long as you're doing the correct things
.
Why you're single?

Speaker 3 (27:15):
Oh, absolutely, you have got to be.
Your life needs to portray alife abandoned to Christ,
because that's what he's goingto bless.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Can't be at home eating chips, playing video
games 100%, and so there aresteps to be taken, right yeah?

Speaker 3 (27:29):
So working out?
Yeah, okay, go out, work out.
Make it look like you canprotect your family.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, you should be strong, you know?
Yeah, um, I was born tall, soI'm good.
How about?

Speaker 2 (27:39):
how about?
In your job having ambitionsbeyond just making it.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
It's, it's important.
It can't just be I have a job,I'm doing the thing it needs to
be.
How am I actually growing andbecoming more than I am?
Yeah, it's important.
It's important to do that andthen having an actual protective
, a strong protective, I guess Iwould say quality in you, but

(28:06):
really it's a, it's an instinct.
It's a good thing to have, doyou?
This bugs me, man.
I was driving the other daypast the gym and I saw this girl
.
She was walking with her kidand she had her kid walking on
the side of the road and she wason the sidewalk side you know

(28:28):
what I mean or the storefrontside and her kid's kind of like
walking on the very edge of thesidewalk and they're walking
together and my head, it was theweirdest thing, tim.
I don't know if it was like Goddid this or what, but I
immediately saw a picture of herand her dad doing that with her
Cause.
He didn't know.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
Yeah, he didn't, he didn't know, he didn't know.
No, no, no.

Speaker 2 (28:47):
You stand on the car side.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, I stand you get .

Speaker 2 (28:50):
You get hit.
You're closer to the door.
You are on that side of the bed.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
That's where the door is.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
That's where I am.
Why?
Because I'm closer to where theproblem is going to be.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Yes, Not farther away from it.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Simple, simple things like that are, are are
incredibly important, but that'sthe defensive, loyal instinct
that I'm talking about that youshould have.
This is why men open the doorsfor women.
This is why men are supposed totreat them a certain way,
because what we're saying is youare, in fact, incredibly
valuable.
You're not cheap, you're not uh, you're not just this isn't

(29:32):
just a hit of something.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
So this is the entire , uh, kind of an underlying sin
within pornography right.
You're not protecting womenwhen you're consuming
pornography.
No.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
You're not protecting women when you're consuming
pornography.
No, and and that's anotheraspect I mean I had that walk
through when you know I wasdealt my sexual immorality blow
and I had, I had cut pornographyoff when I devoted my life to
Christ, but it was more out of aself-control thing, right yeah.
And when I, when I fell intosexual immorality, it brought
home oh, that's why you don'tlook at porn, because you're

(30:01):
actually just abusing women whenyou watch porn.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Yeah, well, and not only that, you are teaching your
brain to think that that's howwomen think about sex.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Well, I remember you talking about this as, like
you're, you're actually turningwomen into men in terms of sex.
Yeah, it's's, it's basicallyskewed.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
it's so insidious yeah, yeah, it's, it's, but
again, it's that reversal ofroles we see across all of
society right now, and if youthink that was an accident, it's
yeah it's demonic, it's demonic, it's demonic and bo.
I love that you keep bringingthis back to like your identity
in in christ and knowing him andfollowing him 100% and to your

(30:41):
point.
Psalm 138 is one of my favoriteverses because it says the Lord
will accomplish what concernsme.
Right, the Lord will accomplishwhat concerns me.
So if you're out there like Idon't know if I'm ever going to
find a girl, and how is thisgoing to happen, quit wallowing
in that.
Yes, work hard.
Yes, get strong, learn how tobe this kind of man.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Or, if you're a woman , learn how to be feminine,
learn to love that, and that'swhat happens when your identity
is solidified in Christ.
It's because you naturallybecome more confident, right?
You naturally start walkingwith a different gait.
You naturally start becoming alittle more upright.
You can naturally start walkingwith a different gate.
Yeah, you naturally startbecoming a little more upright.
You can naturally start talkingto anybody with a confidence in

(31:24):
your voice.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
And that doesn't.
That doesn't start.
I want to.
I want to put I'm going to makethis clear, because we talked
about this a little bit andthere's another concept here the
the boy raises the man, tim.
We brought this up on a podcasta while back.
All right, so how your son iswhen he's a kid is going to be
how they are when they're anadult.
If they don't change somethings along the way.

(31:47):
That kid is teaching himselfhow to be who he's going to be
when he's older.
My job is to step in and try toshape that.
The Bible tells us in 1Corinthians 16, it says be on
the alert, stand firm in thefaith, and I love this act like
men, be strong.
What is he saying?
Be a man.
And I want to put this up,because the word here for act

(32:09):
like men actually comes.
It's called a hapax legomena,which means it doesn't appear in
the New Testament.
What it actually is is it's anextra biblical term Doesn't
appear in the New Testament.
What it actually is is it's anextra biblical term.
We get the word from Greektheater Theater.
This was a place that they hadwhere they would put on place.
So literally what he's saying ishey, even if you don't totally
feel confident in this yet, evenif you don't feel like I got

(32:33):
this, I got it put together.
You need to start.
The boy needs to raise the man.
You need to start acting thisway now so that one day you will
actually be the fullness ofwhat that thing is.
But if you're wearing yourskinny jeans now and shaving
your face and simping and doingall these things now, either
you're going to be created inthe image that is opposite of
what God called you to be, oryou're going to do what God says

(32:55):
and actually begin to act theway that he's called you to,
until you become the fullness ofwhat that thing actually is.
But make no mistake, you aregrowing into something.
You have a strategy for whoyou're becoming.
Whether it's conscious to youor not, it is producing a
conclusion and for a lot ofpeople to Bo's point.

(33:15):
Either you're going to be madein the image of Christ and you
may not feel totally confidentin that yet, and you might have
to like work at that and do theright things until they become
natural to you, or you're goingto go the opposite direction.
Just for you know, sexualfulfillment or gratification and
you're going to be made intothe image of a weak,
pusillanimous man, who'sactually not a man at all.

Speaker 3 (33:36):
but a destroyer.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
He's destroying things, and what you're going to
find is a mom, not a mate.
You're going to find somebodywho's going to mother you, and
she's going to be miserable, andso are you.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
You're going to be miserable too.
Yeah, it's a horriblecircumstance.
I'm just glad that I'm finallyaround somebody that uses the
same words that I do.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh yeah, I know that's not like a crazy.

Speaker 3 (33:58):
No, the Greek theater word I use that word, all the
time.
I always have to explain topeople what that means.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
You brought that verse up before we got going,
man.
I started laughing because Ithought I was making fun of it.
It says act like it.
It doesn't say be a man.
That's actually the point.
I was right.
That's actually the point.

Speaker 2 (34:13):
I'm smarter, my son, when he picks up swords and
wants to fight with dad, isacting the part.
He's not actually swinging areal sword yet.
He's working at it, so one daythe sword will actually feel
comfortable in his hand Do youlet him win.
You know what's funny?
There's actually a principlethat exists here, I know.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
I had a point to ask you.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
You have to let your kid win a certain amount of
times to want them to keepworking, and if you beat them
every time, they don't want toplay ever again and you'll
you'll kill it for your own kid.
This is, this is the classicbaseball dad who makes his kids
hate baseball.
You know what I mean, cause ithas to be part.
You know what I mean.
But there's this principle oflike hey, I'm going to let you
get some wins in to just to whetyour appetite, yeah, so chase

(34:58):
after growing this.
And this is a.
This is important because ifyou're a man and you're pursuing
a woman, I would say, man,having a really good interaction
with a girl is a is is great.
Or if you're a girl, hey,having a interaction with a man
where I didn't feel like I hadto, um, yeah, let's say, throw
myself around in a particularway to get that kind of
attention and it goes well,those are good things.

(35:18):
Little wins, so that I'mpracticing to get to a place
where I actually could get thisand sustain it is great.
Like this is why I am somewhata fan of I'm hesitant to use the
word dating, but let's say somekind of courtship, especially
in, like, high school, becausewomen need to learn to have
conversations with men and menneed to learn to have
conversations with women.
They should learn how to dothat before they're in a place

(35:42):
where they're actually trying tofind their real spouse.
Some like practice is good, butpractice, the way that our
world talks about it, is notgood at all.

Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, so you say, dating in general is good.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Really, what I mean is friendship yeah 100%.

Speaker 3 (35:59):
It's like if you're a guy and you're taking a girl on
a first date, like do it withthe intention of showing her a
good time, like go out and showher a good time.
Yeah, you know, with with nointention of having a second
date, yep Right.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
And why Not?
Because I'm trying to getsomething out of this, uh, from
them.
This is actually practice forme.
Yeah, I'm trying to get good atbecoming the kind of man that
the woman I would want to bewith would actually want to
marry someday.
That's what I'm working on.
I want to do that.
So my son is going to learn toopen the door for my daughters

(36:31):
From a very young age.
I'm teaching him hey, when Ileave the house, I'm like son,
protect my family while we'regone, make sure you take care of
everybody.
You're the man right now.
You know what I mean.
And my wife?
It bugs the heck out of her.
She doesn't like when peoplesay like little man or things
like that.
She's like they're just boys.

Speaker 1 (36:47):
She yelled at me when your son was born we have this
conversation.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
All the time it's like, yeah, but he has to learn
now how to be that so.
So I realized that, yeah, wecan let them be boys, we're not
going to destroy them.
But also, everything ispractice for becoming who
they're meant to be.
And so if you're a Christianright now and you're like,
honestly man, it just it feelslike I'm not that guy.
Yeah, me too.

(37:10):
Do you feel like that?
As a Christian, you feel likeyou're nailing it.
As a Christian, do you feellike you're working at that?
It's an ongoing process?
Yeah, me too.
And I would say women feel thesame way, but ironically,
they're looking to men to helplead them in that process, and
too often men aren't towing theline.
They're not stable people likeyou're talking about.

(37:30):
They're insecure in their ownself, and the nurturing dominant
aspects of women are then ohwell, I'll care for you.
You're not totally there yet,but I'll be kind, I'll be
gracious, and then it actuallybecomes a monstrous type of
relationship that ends upblowing up later on.
Men need to practice it beingmen.
Women need to practice it beingwomen, and this means in the

(37:51):
church.
The pulpit needs to teach menwhat men actually are.
It needs to teach women whatwomen actually are, which means
addressing the unique sins ofmen and the unique sins of women
and teaching them how they'resupposed to grow together in the
relationship that they'reactually meant to have.
And that doesn't happenovernight.
Everybody needs practice atthat, and it's it's hard.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
What do you mean by the uniqueness of sin in men and
women?

Speaker 2 (38:15):
Tim, if you had okay, so this would be easy.
Tim, and women, tim, if you hadokay, so this would be easy,
tim.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
What are some sins that are more unique to men?

Speaker 2 (38:23):
That are more unique, yeah, Like if you think about
like okay, anger, yeah, for sure.
Porn, pornography, right,sexual sin, yep, yeah.
You could say like an overdominance maybe, yeah, okay, now
let's do this.
What are some things that youthink would be-.

Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's just masculinity.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
What are some things that you think would be feminine
sins?
That's just regular.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Feminine sins.
Yeah, oh boy Gossip, yeah,gossip Bitterness.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
Okay, how about, like maybe emotional manipulation?

Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Yeah, yeah, these are , these are.
There are sins that tend to bemore specific to women, like one
of them in the Bible is likeit's, it's a reoccurring thing
Women who are drinking too muchwine.
Okay, that's funny, cause thisis an online trend all across
our culture.
Yeah, like wine culture.
We literally have a name for it.

(39:17):
And the Bible is like, yeah,that's a problem, yeah, and we
should address it.
There are other sins like thisthat the Bible clearly
communicates this is tends to be.
It doesn't mean nobody can sin,that it does mean this tends to
be more of a male sin or thistends to be more of a female sin
, and we should know this.
So, men with sexual immoralitypassivity is a massive problem

(39:42):
for men.
I do that one a lot.
Escapism is a massive problemfor men, I do that one a lot too
.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
How am I?

Speaker 2 (39:48):
married, isolating for women Bitterness, I would
say envy or comparison.

Speaker 1 (39:52):
Do that a lot too.
God am I even saved.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
I am the worst aspects of all the men and all
the women.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
My goodness, what am I doing?
How am I married?

Speaker 2 (40:04):
But consider how addressing these things is hey,
these tend to be more femalesins how that actually creates a
healthy divide in churches.
Again, where it's not, we'reall in the same boat, we're all
the same.
When everybody is sitting therelike dude, she is not like me
and I'm not like her.
Well then, quit talking toeverybody like they're exactly
the same.
We're not.

(40:24):
We have different roles, wehave different characteristics,
we're called to different thingsand the pulpit is supposed to
decide and tell us from the wordwhat those things are, instead
of the culture.
And when the culture does, youend up with the reversal of the
very roles that God said hecreated for flourishing.
So the confidence that we haveto be men and women and actually

(40:46):
stand in opposition to theworld around us is actually
becoming solid and confident inyour relationship with Jesus.
And then pursuing people whoare the same Not the same as you
, but are pursuing that sameendeavor.
And they're not doing it,perfect, cause, just like you're
acting like a man, they'reacting like a woman, a woman.
And this is a playwright where,in the end, jesus is the

(41:10):
bridegroom and the church is thebride.
And you think, you think thechurch is that beautiful,
perfect, put together woman.
No, have grace, you think well,jesus is.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
So just be.

Speaker 2 (41:23):
Jesus right, yeah, but that's ultimately the
picture and what it's supposedto look like.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
I get what you're saying, because it's not like I
don't struggle with gossip orbitterness or something like
that too.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
No, no, but they are uniquely more difficult for, I
would say, women than men and inmost churches today.
Right, you say that out loudand you get crucified for it.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
Right Like how dare you?

Speaker 2 (41:44):
But if I say men have real problems with porn.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Everybody's like, yeah, totally agree man, they
really agree, or it's the man'sproblem.

Speaker 2 (41:50):
Or if I say men, you're the reason for this.
The whole crowd cheers If wesay women, you are the reason
for this.
Oh, am I?
And that is a byproduct.
Yeah Well, they're skyrocketingbecause those things aren't
happening.
That's what's funny.
It's actually wrecking theculture precisely because it's

(42:13):
not being addressed the way thatit's supposed to be addressed.
So just some basic tools formen that I'm going to throw out
real quick because I think thisis important.
Okay, in your endeavor tobecome the man that God has
called you to be, there's somethings you should be focusing on
.
One financial responsibility.
All right, you need to find ajob and work hard.

(42:34):
Okay, I don't care if you werea trash man, work hard.
Okay, I don't care if you werea trash man.
Become management at the trashcompany.
I don't care if you are amailman.
Find a way to work hard andachieve so that you can provide
more for your family.
You need to do that too.
You need to be a leader in yourchurch.
You're not serving and workingon beyond.

(42:57):
I'm not just serving coffee,I'm, I'm giving money to this
church.
I am, uh, I'm helping teach.
I'm hanging out with mentorshere who could teach and grow me
.
You're not doing that.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
You're.
That also showcases that you'reprioritizing Christ Totally.
You're in your Bible, you'reyou're pursuing Christ, you're
chasing after him and you'rebringing other people behind you
too.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yes, and here's the advice I want to give to any guy
who is like, okay, great, thoseare helpful things, I'll do
that.
But what happens?
How do I get to a place whereI'm not so weird or where girls
like me more?
Find a godly man who is alreadymarried, who's not weird
because he doesn't have theweird tension that you're
holding because you're notmarried, and make him go with

(43:38):
you to different events thatyou're looking to connect with
somebody on All right, becausehe's not going to carry the
awkwardness you carry.
Yeah, he's totally fine havingconversations with other people.
And he is going to helpalleviate stress.
Invite you into theconversation and bring down
barriers.
He's your wingman.
That's it I was going to say.
In the secular world this iscalled a wingman and ultimately
that person is just in theabsence of alcohol.

(44:01):
In a Christian environment youneed a good, solid brother who's
going to help bring some levityto a difficult situation to try
to create some opportunityWithin that context.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
you're not always going to have that guy for you
right Because he has a family,he has responsibilities that he
doesn't have the time to be allthe places that you're able to
go to that he doesn't have thetime to be all the places that
you're able to go to.
And so those tools that we'retalking about, like one of them
is wear a smile, wear a smile onyour face all the time, yeah,
right, because we kind of whatyou want to do is, you want to

(44:31):
be the center of gravity, so youwant to be the person that
everybody is looking to.
So, not to a degree, butthere's a concept called
peacocking.
So we, you know, this isn't themost biblical book, because
ultimately, the the, the goal isto have sex.
So, but if you can, if you cancompartmentalize it, there's a
book called the game, okay, soby a guy named Neil Strauss, and

(44:56):
he kind of penetrated thisworld of pickup artists, okay,
and so there's kind of a conceptof beginning, middle and end
game, and so you don't need toreally necessarily worry about
the end game, and you also needto to protect yourself, to make
sure you're not getting into amanipulative, you know, type of
scheme, and so, but what you cando is you can adopt some of the

(45:18):
tools that are just deeplypsychological, right, and so one
of them when you wear a smileinto any room you go into, what
do you think is inevitably goingto happen?
Other people are going to startsmiling too, right.
They're going to be looking atthis guy like man.
This guy kind of like lightensthe mood.

Speaker 1 (45:36):
Or they're going to come up and talk to me when I'm
looking.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
I never have a smile.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Think about it this way If somebody's looking for a
spouse, but if you want those tocome up and talk to, you.
What they're not looking for issomebody who's going to be
exhausting.
Okay, if you look angry and sadall the time, or in those
environments, all that says is Idon't want to hang out with
that person.
They're not fun, they're notstrong, they're a project.
That that's.
That looks like a horriblecircumstance to find myself in.

(46:01):
It's not.
It's not like some kind ofesoteric wisdom, it's like, hey,
you know, actually being fun inan environment where the goal
is to like talk with people andfacilitate a hospitable
atmosphere smiling, laughing andintentionally uh like
facilitating, uh, you know,laughter and good conversation

(46:23):
is is just common sense and uh,a lot of people are walking
around with their hands folded,also good in the workplace.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
If you're walking around and you got a smile on
your face all the time likeyou're an enjoyable person to be
around and you're an enjoyableperson to work with, yeah.
And then if you're mitigatingthe gossip, right, yeah, then
everybody wants to be around youbecause they know they can
trust you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
True, yeah, I'm going to throw one more thing out and
then I'm going to shift alittle.
The other thing that I wouldsay for guys is the environments
that you choose matter.
So if you are with a bunch ofpeople who are dummies, or hang
out with a bunch of friends whoare not saved, and they got
girls that you know that are notsaved, in these different

(47:06):
things you need to be verycareful, the environments that
you find yourself in.
So if you are trying to find asolid person, look in solid
environments.
And if you're all the thingsthat I just talked about as far
as being stable um, workingreally hard at making money and
do that, like those things arereally good.
They also work in a secularenvironment and my goal would

(47:27):
not be for you to land yourselfin an environment you know, a
situation where you're you'recatching feelings for somebody
that you should not be catchingfeelings for Because, guess what
?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
If you utilize these tools, you can they?
Work, they work, they work.
Yeah, right, and and you don'twant them to work on somebody
that you shouldn't be with forthe rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
Okay, now I'm gonna.
I'm gonna flip gears real, realquick.
Women, sometimes there are alot of godly ladies out there
who think, well, if it's a realmanly man who really loves jesus
, I shouldn't have to wearmakeup, I don't need to do my
hair and I can dress in a smockbecause he'll notice me, because

(48:04):
God is the one who's going totell him to marry me.
Listen, guys are not that smart.
Okay, we don't think that way.
I would say girls, if you loveJesus and you're looking for a
solid man and you know of one,you love Jesus and you're
looking for a solid man and youknow of one, okay, and you see,
you feel like he's not totallynoticing.
You Listen, I'm not saying tolike slut it up.

Speaker 3 (48:26):
Don't do that.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
What I am saying is wear something nice, do your
hair.
Catch his eye, put some perfumeon and stand in front of him,
okay, like make yourself atleast clearly in his world.
There's a couple that I knowthat she recently got married to
this guy, who saw a guy lovesJesus because she joined his

(48:49):
small group and joined hisserving team intentionally,
because she was pursuing him,not in his face, shaking his
hand, giving him her number.
Guys are supposed to be theones that, let's say, initiate,
yeah, but she was placingherself in all the environments
for that to take place.
And I would say, oftentimes thejoke is that women women are

(49:11):
like showing attraction to a manby glancing at him and then
looking away Right, and a guy islike totally confused by that.

Speaker 3 (49:18):
Doesn't realize.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
Oh no, that's at least somewhat of a look back at
me, smile right Like kind ofthing you know, and a guy's like
girl, is that, oh, she must beashamed of how I look.
I should walk away right Likethere's an element that I was
like.
No girls, you can be a littlebit more clear, you can be a
little bit more straightforwardand you can intentionally
utilize the beautiful thing thatGod has made you to be.

(49:42):
God literally made womenbeautiful, like they're supposed
to be.
And I would say, if you'retrying to downplay that and I do
not mean sexual, uh, stirringup sexual lust here at all, that
is not what I'm talking about.
I am talking about puttingyourself in an environment where
he would actually notice you ifhe's the kind of man that you
think is worth being with atsome point.

(50:03):
So just that simple tool.
And then I would say this forwomen If you have a solid father
, okay, he should, you should bebouncing ideas off of him about
the conversations that you'rehaving and how it's going and
the different things that aregoing on, about the
conversations that you're havingand how it's going and the
different things that are goingon If you don't have a pastor

(50:23):
that you're talking to, aboutthat relationship as well, so
that you at least have some kindof masculine figure that is
going to be able to sniff out awolf if he's a wolf.
So just as a couple of quickreminders for people, I think
those principles are incrediblyimportant as you're trying to
catch somebody in the name ofJesus In the name of Jesus.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Any final thoughts guys?

Speaker 3 (50:45):
Well, I mean you know , like we go into appearance
right, and so one of the thingsthat that book I remember
talking about was this guy hadthe worst hair in the world.
Guy had the worst hair in theworld and the minute, uh, his
mentor kind of got ahold of himwas like we need to take you to
the barbershop and we're goingto get rid of all your hair
right now, right, and so thatfor men as well, there's an

(51:07):
aspect like we kind of talkedabout working out like there's
an aspect to being groomed,there's an aspect to knowing how
to dress Right and all.
There's so much re so manyresources out there.
Go on YouTube, learn how todress right, and all there's so
much re so many resources outthere.
Go on YouTube, learn how todress, learn how to look, and
because that, just like Justinwas saying, on the female side,

(51:28):
the same is true for for themale too.
You know, um, and then alsounderstand how to hold a
conversation right, so you canapproach a girl.
I think it's very important formen to initiate contact right.
I think it's important for mento be assertive and kind of.
You know, if you notice a girllike, approach her, like, start

(51:50):
a conversation with her.
Have an opener, you know likeunder kind of kind of understand
where you're going to go in theconversation.
Have a few talking points thatyou typically hit on If you have
an insecurity.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
I mean not a pickup line, right?
No, not at all Like an actualconversation, yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:04):
And so that also goes into, like serving the church
is going to make that entranceinto a conversation much better.
And then we kind of say, likewhen you get into a date or when
you get into a conversation,don't talk about weird stuff,
bro.
You know, like, keep it light,keep it funny, understand who
you are as a person and beconfident in that.

(52:26):
Also, there's another aspect islike you know, I was talking
about a guy with an eyecondition, right?
So something like that makes anindividual deeply insecure and
it makes them go into theirshell majorly.
Okay.
But there's a different aspect.
When you own it and you're justupfront about it and you almost

(52:50):
make it a joke and youcompletely release that power
that it had over you, right.
So when you own it and it'skind of like when people start
making fun of you for somethingand then you just like take it
and you start, yeah, you knowyou own it, it totally loses all
power and then people can't useit against you anymore, right.

(53:11):
Same is true for an insecurityyou know.
So.
So own it, become the center ofgravity so that people are
paying attention to you, believeit or not.
Speaking loudly is indicativeof confidence, because you don't
care who's hearing you.
It can be a little embarrassingfor the person you're talking
to, so it's like you know, don'tbe an idiot.

(53:32):
How's that rash?
Yeah, that would be one ofthose things where you don't
bring up on the first.
Yeah, I got this rash here.
You know, really been botheringme for a solid month.

Speaker 2 (53:43):
You know, don't bring something like that up on the
first month.
That might be a little odd.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
No, those are those are good things.
But the beginning game is like,how do I approach the girl?
You know, like so.
So just a point of of, likephysical, uh, like in the in.
You know how you are 3d, right,If you're going up to a girl
and her back is to you, don't goup to her directly behind her.
That's threatening, Okay, andlike tapping her on the shoulder

(54:11):
, you know, because if she'slike at a, at a wall or
something or along a desk, likeyou, don't approach her directly
behind her, Right?
So you just brought up herdirectly behind her.
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
So you just brought up a story for me real quick.

Speaker 3 (54:21):
Well, what I'm what?
I'm real quick.
Approach her from an angle sothat you're in her periphery
Right.
So that's not threatening, it'sshowing up out of nowhere.
Yeah, Physically speakingthat's much more congenial.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Nothing like showing up like a murderer you know
exactly.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
I told you I was a closet nerd, so I went to an
anime convention years ago, thefirst and last one I ever went
to don't lead with that, guysthe amount of weirdos there.
Okay, but you had a lot of girlsdressed up in these characters,
a lot of them attractive, withthe weirdest dudes coming up out
of nowhere like can I hug you?
Can I give you a hug?
Like this happened in front ofme, and this one dude kept
asking this one girl I'm likedude.

(55:01):
She said no, like embarrass thecrap out of this yeah yep, but
to your point, he kept coming upand grabbing her and touching,
like this is weird.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
Yeah, this is weird, that's her personal bubble,
right, don't interfere with that.
Another thing is is like knowhow to end it.
Okay, like we kind of talkedabout, if you're on a first date
, the goal is just give her agood time, like show her what it
is.
I remember you said a long timeago like like show her what
it's like to date a man you knowwho's not going to try and take

(55:30):
advantage of her at the end ofthe day, yeah.
Right.
So if the intention is to showher a good time, okay.
Well, if you end up catchingfeelings, okay, and you know
she's obviously not into andeverybody knows when she's it's,
she's just not into it.
Right, don't continue to lighther up with pages of texts, you

(55:53):
know.
Don't continue to just likehound her.
Learn how to say you know what,I'm dying inside, but I'm just
going to let it go.
Better luck next time.
Yes, you've got to be able todo that because, say, you're in
a church, okay, and you're a guyand you've pursued a girl and
now you're lighting her up withpages of texts and you were

(56:17):
delivering like stuff to herdoor and it's like she's told
you multiple times now, like Idon't want this to continue.
Well, if you guys are in thesame church, like how is that
going to be for you trying todate another girl in the church?

Speaker 2 (56:30):
now.
Yeah, I say it this way.
I tell people all the time holdon with your hands, not your
heart.
You want to like work in therelationship.
If it's somebody worth pursuing, you go that direction.
But I am not allowing myfeelings to go there Like they
would with somebody that I'mgoing to marry until I know.
Dude, I really think this ishappening Like the goal is not

(56:50):
to stir up emotions.
The goal is to investigate ifthis is the kind of person I
want to be with and then whenyou reach that point, you are
intentional.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Yes, like my intention in dating you and
pursuing you is to marry you.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
And once you know that they're interested in that
and you are man, yeah.
But again, a fool gives awayhis heart early.
And I would even say in Song ofSolomon it talks about this,
the women in there saying don'tawaken love before it's time.
And everybody wants to makethat about sex.
I would say no, that happensway before sex.

(57:26):
Is this I'm giving my heartaway to somebody, like when I'm
talking to a guy, tim, who'sdating a girl and she's having a
bad day, so now his day iswrecked.
Okay, she's setting the tempofor your life right now.
You've gone too far.
Yeah, chill out, get yourselfreestablished in Jesus and get
to a place where you can leadher Cause.

(57:46):
Right now, her emotions areleading you and what you're
telling me is you're unfit forthis.

Speaker 3 (57:51):
Really important and I would say that it's it is
easiest to do that, right.
I mean, I've I got caught, I'vegot caught up, I've got caught
up multiple times, right.
But I also knew, like I don'twant to be that dude.
That's just like bombardingthis girl, so I just kill it.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
That happened to me too, and I hated who I was
during that time I really did.
Cause I had.
No, I lost myself.

Speaker 3 (58:22):
Yeah Right, so don't allow it to transfer to her.
Just kill it, let yourselfdwell with it, okay, and then
you'll eventually move onAwesome.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Swallow it.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
So, yeah, I mean, it's like learning how to start,
learning how to end, learninghow to be intentional and pursue
, you know so?

Speaker 1 (58:41):
yeah, we're going to wrap up, but just as a reminder,
we have this send a text thingon our description page.
So if you have questions orthoughts, please send them our
way.
Email us and I'll have Bo giveyou some advice.
Yep, and it'll show up on yourdate and you know.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Wingman.
Yeah, yeah, you need a wingman.
If you guys are looking forfurther reading material on this
, by the way, write that in too.
I could make somerecommendations, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Real quick.
I'm sorry.
There's an aspect to being awingman too.
I remember, secularly speaking,like I would go out with other
guys and they would trash me infront of girls, you know, like
little low key, like They'd begetting ahead at your expense.
Yeah, why are you as tall as Iam?
You're not as tall as I am.

Speaker 2 (59:24):
And then they'd look down at my shoes like oh, you're
wearing like like those shoes.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
Okay, that makes you look way taller in front of the
girl, right?
Yeah, like it's incredible howinsecure guys are, yeah, okay,
so let me give you some adviceabout a wingman.
A wingman is going to go withyou and he is going to talk you
up to be the coolest, mostinteresting guy you've ever met

(59:50):
in front of a girl.
Right, and vice versa.
If you're both single, yeah,right, but that is the
responsibility of a wingman.
A wingman is supposed to makeyou look like the coolest dude
in the room yeah, right, butthat is the responsibility of a
wingman.
A wingman is supposed to makeyou look like the coolest dude
in the room.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, he's, he's.
He's selling you, but he'sdoing it in a low key
environment.
That's it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Yeah, so it's like you're helping your buddy at
like and then you know if it'sit's so.
It's like these guys are likeoh man, that shows security,
that portrays something, thatconveys something to a woman,
that's like these guys arereally cool guys.
You know, rather than the flipside of insecurity trying to

(01:00:28):
trash someone to make yourselflook better, Like a wingman
scenario is always propping yourfriend up to make them out to
be awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
Yes, they get to be David, you be Jonathan.

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Yep, that's the goal.
Nice Cool Thanks Bo for beinghere today, bud.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
Right on.
Yeah, enjoyed it.
Guys, have a fabulous week andif you're a man, act like a man.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Act like a man.
Act like a man.
Catch you all next time.