December 30, 2024 • 54 mins
On this special holiday bonus episode titled “True Crime Convos,” Melissa has teamed up with two fellow true crime podcasters to converse about our various experiences in the medium. Join me as I chat with Robin with "The Trail Went Cold" and Robert Parmer of “The Broken System Podcast” about such topics as researching cold cases, working with victims’ families, and even some of the more bizarre things we’ve experienced as podcasters.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So hello everyone, and welcome to a special joint podcast
collaborative episode which was organized by our friend Josh Hallmark
of True Crime BS podcast. He thought it would be
a good idea for the holidays to get some of
the podcasteries together to do group chats where we would
talk about random topics, and he pretty much selected it
and grouped us together at random. I'm here with a
(00:20):
one host of a podcast at normally s two co host.
That's Melissa from Navigating Advocacy and also Robert Palmer from
the Broken System podcast. And even though we have met
each other and hung out multiple times podcasting events, this
is the first time we recorded an episode together. So
really exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Guests, same for me.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I am excited to chat with you guys for the
next little bit. So yes, like Robin said, I am Melissa.
I am one of the hosts of Navigating Advocacy podcast.
We started during COVID really just chatting about true crime
and then decided we wanted to start working with families
(01:00):
and rebranded and now we work with families on every
single episode that comes out.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
And I'm Robert with a Broken System podcast, and I
started my podcast at a change in my life, left
a corporate world and moved into a personal journey of
business ownership and filled my free time with podcasting and
fell into being tugged on my heart with some cases
that are was local to my area and local to
(01:31):
the Southeast, and just and started that advocacy journeysy journey
that way.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And I'm Robin Warder of the Trail and Cold podcast.
I'm pretty much the old veteran here because I've been
around for a long time. At the time of recording this,
I'm only a few months shy from my nine year
anniversary book. Podcast I started in February of twenty sixteen
when they were really a handful of true crime podcasts
out there. The boom was just about to start where
it became very popular and a lot of people started
(01:57):
their shows. And I decided, as a fan of the
TV show Unsolved Mysteries, that I was going to cover
a lot of the cases that were featured on the
show that were still unsolved today and hope that people
might be interested in listening to it. And it turned
out they did. I got pretty lucky and still going
strong all these years later, after more than four hundred episodes,
and it's been great to meet so many podcasters like
(02:18):
YouTube over the years, just to see how much the
genre has evolve.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Congratulations all that that's an awesome achievement.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Seriously, that's a long time to be podcasted, so but
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And I've shared the story a few times before. But
I originally hoped to be a YouTube series. I think
it was all the way back in twenty thirteen where
I was going to start a show called the Unsolved
Mystery Fanatic where I would literally dress as Robert Stack
in a trench coat and do host segments and show
clips from the original Unsolved Mystery show and analyze the cases.
(02:53):
And we got one episode done and it was on
YouTube for about half an hour, and then we got
cold for copyright. Fringe mus By Cosgro Mirror, the production
company that does Unsolved Mysteries, took a couple of years
and we came up with we brainstormed a new idea
and then figured out, why not just do a podcast
where I cans talk in front of the microphone and
not have to worry about standing in front of a
camera and worry about copyright infringements and it turned out
(03:16):
to be the correct decision.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's crazy. I had never heard that story before.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And yeah, video on YouTube is a much too different
realm Whitney and I try to do it. It takes
a lot more work than your typical podcast episodes, so.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Same here.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
I've done one or two episodes on YouTube. Typically they're
when I have the family on and with the current
case that I'm on right now, Amber Spridland, they have
so many questions after court hearings. So what we've started
doing is going on YouTube live so after the court hearings,
the family can just come on and answer all the questions.
(03:57):
Because on the Facebook group it would just get so
crazy and it would be the same question.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Over and over again.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
So we were able just to go live on YouTube,
do that, record it, and then post it on the
Facebook group and say, hey, if you have questions from today,
go here and listen to this. So that's been one
kind of venture for me that's been successful.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
On this time, for this app for this case.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I do that a few times too, Like every Thursday,
I do live streams on Facebook with my listeners where
I talk about the featured case on that week's podcast
episode and they send in questions of comments. It's a
post show for each of my episodes, and it works
well because I just recorded under these circumstances where I
don't have to wear a trench code or anything or
have a loose pretty myself, and it works out pretty well.
(04:42):
I don't know if either of you two attended it,
but back at the True Crime Podcast Festival in Dallas,
I actually screamed the long lost episode of The Unsolved
Mysteryes Fanatic. We had a panel session where I screened
it on there and a lot of the podcasts wanted
to see me back when I had a goatee and
was dressed into trench coats, so we all had a
good laugh. It's just see how the how the trail
(05:03):
went Cold's original incarnation.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
I was not there, but I would have loved to
have been, and I think we need to press for
that to happen again.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I can screen it again because not everyone was there
to see it, so maybe I'll do that next year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I didn't see it either, and I didn't even actually
hear about it, So now I'm like, what the heck?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How can I miss that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
How can I go back to wayback machine and find it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, definitely do it again.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I'll do it, yeah, because I can't post it on
YouTube without getting pulled. I think before I screened it
at the festival, I think maybe five or ten people
in the world had seen mad videos, so they were
one of the lucky ones to be able to eat it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So cool.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
So when I guess for me, Robin, I have a
question for you, just coming from my aspect, when you
say you have almost four hundred episodes in your podcast,
how do you get through without getting fatigued? How do
you get because I'll get five, six, seven, eight episodes
into a case and I feel podcast fatigue come in
(06:08):
for me, I do.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I don't know about you, guys.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I'm lucky that I really haven't felt too much
fatigue over the past nine years because I haven't taken
a lot of time off. And I think it's just
because of my background, because I got a postgraduate degree
in script writing. I really wanted to be a screenwriter
who wrote movies and TV shows and wound up just
doing podcasting instead. This is really what I wanted to do,
(06:33):
is just write. And I don't want to say that
this felt easy, but after so many years of taking
scriptwriting class and trying to come up with fictional scripts
where I come up with fictional stories, fictional plotlines, writing
scripts every week about real life events just felt like
a break, like I could just didn't have to change eything.
All I would have to do is share of the facts.
And that's why I really like to do. Unlike some
(06:54):
other shows, I do not hire writers to do it
for me. I still write my own material, so I
just feel them myself that I'm lucky that I've now
been able to find some sort of career writing. Like
not what I was expecting many years ago, but it
works out pretty well. And I just love the process
of writing, researching and putting it together in the script.
And that's why I think it prevents me from suffering
(07:16):
from too much fatigue.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I can answer that, Robert, because I do get fatigued
every now in this, but usually with the live events
or the conferences when there's a lot back to back.
I'm just naturally an introvert, so when there's like lots
of meetings, lots of family member interviews and then these conferences,
(07:37):
I do get worn out quite a bit. Luckily, I
have a co host, so we'd split everything straight down
the middle.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
We write, produce, do everything on our own.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And if I'm ever feeling like, hey, I need to
chill out for a few days, She's got my.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Back and back and forth.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I don't know how you guys do it just on
your own, because that sounds terrifying to me.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And I'm so glad that I have a partner in this.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
If something that's happening, I can always bounce ideas or
complain or vent to her and she understands, so it
definitely makes it easier that way.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I still remember when I started in twenty sixteen, virtually
all the true crime podcasts I know had multiple hosts,
like Generation Why and Thinking Sideways. So I was terrified
at that point, saying how many podcasts are going to
listen to one person talking for thirty to forty five minutes?
And bakfully they did. And I should add though, that
I'm lucky enough to have my own editor, not a
(08:33):
lifelong but a friend that I met in scriptwriting twenty
years ago who was an editor by trade. So he
does all the technical stuff for me, which I'm not
skilled that, so all I can worry about is writing
and content, so that takes a big load up my back.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
For me, it's everything, and I get so deep into
because it is one case that I typically cover seven
to eight episodes on. I get so just drawn into it,
and with all the research, I don't for se right,
I kind of wing all my episodes because I feel
(09:07):
like it comes off more natural for me and I'm
just so what you hear is typically me just sitting
in front of the camera or the in front of
the recording and just I record and.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Edit as I go along.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
So there's not a ton of editing that has to
come in the back end, but there's a lot of
research into it, and it takes its toll on me
just physically and emotionally, I guess would be the way
to put that. So it'll take a lot out of me,
especially like Amber's case, it's taken a lot out of me.
So I've had to take just a mental health break,
(09:42):
I guess is the word, and just took a step
back and said, Okay, I'm gonna wait. After the first
of the year, I'm gonna hit it hard again. But
then I go back into it. Okay, now I've got
to I'm finishing up Amber's case, and now I've got
to start researching another case and it's going to be
just the same kind of scenario again. I've got to
figure out a way to not get myself into that rut.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
If that makes.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Sense, it does. This is probably not a good tip,
and a therapist would be like, oh no, don't do that.
I'm a compartmentalizer.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I have a day job, a podcast, I am a mom,
so like everything goes in these little boxes, and as
soon as I finish the podcast realm and I'm onto
something else, it's almost like that's shut.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Therapists would probably say, I need to.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Look into that, But that's just how my brain works,
and I'm always very this is my next event or
this is my d date, and I focus on that
until it's over, and then I go on to the
next thing. I don't think about the next thing until
the thing that I'm working on is over.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And that's how I do it.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
It is that I'll end up taking it and putting
it all into a little box and closing that box
up and then taking a break for two months of
now I'm good, let me reopen. Let's open a new box,
or reopen that box. And go back into it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Plus, it's such a heavy topic that we're day in
and day out, especially working with families or just researching
all of these cases. It is very it's it gets
to you, it really does. So you definitely need to
figure out how to take care of yourself at the
same time.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, Melissa mentioned that she works a day job, and
I still work one too, even after all the years,
because I have a cushy government job that I broke
and really want to give up. But I'm curious if
you two have similar things in your personal life where
you'll cross paths with people outside the podcast the world
and find out you have a podcast, and how do
they react to it. Do you know many people like
(11:34):
friends or coworkers or family members who listen to your
show and provide comments on it.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So I've been like a recognized in public, which is
weird because we do podcasting and no one really should
recognize me.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
But yeah, obviously there are some coworkers that know that
I have a podcast. I don't necessarily know if they listen,
they think it's cool, and any time there's anything true
crime related in a whole white world, they think I
automatically know about it, so that's interesting, but I hope
they don't listen.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Actually that this is the time of the year.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
I usually find out that people are listening to my
podcast that I know because I'll get a text message
with the Spotify wrap up and I'll be like third
behind two really big podcasts, and then it mind will
be number three. I'm like, Okay, that's weird. Now I'm
afraid to ask. Am I supposed to ask?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
What do you think? Or how am I doing?
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm so scared to ask that question because I'm one
afraid they're gonna.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Tell me you're horrible.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I'll stop listening after the first episode. The only reason
why you're on there is because only listen to the
other two and I listen to yours once. I'm like, so,
I never really asked that question in two. I don't
want to put somebody on the spot to say if
they don't like it. I don't want them to tell
me if they do like it, So I try not
to ever do that. But there are people that do
send me that and say, hey, look, you're number four
(12:54):
on my Spotify. I'm like, you don't listen to very
many podcasts that if Min's Noumber three.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Oh no, but yeah, I'm coming up that I've been
towned on myself. Where I go into my day job.
I don't like openly say hey, I'm a podcaster, but
I'll just gradually mentioned in conversations and then it eventually spreads,
and then they get curious when they see I take
a couple weeks off a year to go to these
podcasting events, which they have never heard of before. So
(13:20):
they start asking more questions, and then I get to
the point where some coworkers say they've heard of it,
but they don't offer their opinion, but other co workers
say they really like it and that they've listened to
it on road trips, which is a nice compliment. And
the funniest moment is when my HR personal work came
up to my desk one day and said, Robin, I
listened to your podcast. It's really good. They went in
(13:43):
sire relief and stuff. I'm saying, you know, it's just
gonna call me the office saying there's concerns that you're
talking about all these unsolved murders and missing person's cases.
But no, the feedback that I've gotten in my first
of the life has been positive.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, I would have been a nervous wreck of hr
would have talked to me about listening to it.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Well, I guess that's the positive about owning my own
business is I don't have to worry about that, so
there's no feedback that way. I do get a lot
of because I don't post on my personal Facebook page
about the podcast. I keep everything separate, but when we
go to events and things like that, usually I'll post
those pictures and post photos with you guys and things
(14:26):
like that, so those all go on my personal page
and that's where the comments will come from. I didn't
know you had a podcast, and then they go listen
to it. So that's that's usually how I end up
getting people to listen that I know, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
In my real life. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Is that the word?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's Yeah, it's weird to think about, but it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
The most surreal moment for me that kind of hit
me how much the podcast has spread is that I
actually have a cousin who now lives in Australia because
she moved there and got married and started to f
family and she was having a conversation with her friends
there in Tasmania about true crime podcasts, and someone mentioned
the trail went cold and she said, oh, yeah, Robin
Warder is my cousin, and they're like you Robin Warder's cousin.
(15:13):
And this is like thousands of miles away on the
other side of the globe, and there are fans there
like beeking out because they met my cousin. So that
was the moment A really hit me that people are
holistic to the show everywhere.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's crazy. Yes, I love it so, Robin.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Over the last nine years, I'm sure there's been some
cases that you've gotten more involved in. Are ones that
stuck with you more than others? Can you talk about
maybe one or two?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, I've done a lot of them, But since we've
all worked with victims family, so I should probably talk
about the first time I was ever approached by victims family,
and that's the disappearance of Jeanette and Jannette Melbrook, a
pair of the African American teenage twins who went missing
together in Georgia and the nineteen ninety and that's a
very unusual set of circum standard. You don't often see
(16:01):
twins go missing together. And what was notorious about this
one is that the police didn't do anything for two
decades and no missing Verson's report was ever officially filed
until I think twenty thirteen, and that made a story
like the Huppington Post a few media outlets, but after
that the investigation headed debt hauled again. Their sister, Sean
(16:22):
Pay started reaching out to a whole bunch of like
podcasters asking if they would cover her sister's cases. And
this was very early in the days of podcasting, when
not many people were doing this, and I wasn't the first.
There was a great podcast that cover missing persons called
fit Air, which did an episode They're sadly no longer around,
(16:42):
and I think a friend of hers found out about
the trail and Colder reached out to me, and I
was just lowed away because I'd only been around for
maybe ten to eleven episodes at that point. Yeah, and
not many podcasts were doing nets, but I read about it.
I thought it sounded so outrageous, so I got in
touch with her and covered it, and she was so
happy about it that The great thing is with podcasting
(17:06):
is that you're your own boss. You don't have to
answer to any executives or corporate people about which cases
to cover. You have full creative reading freedom. And this
ultimately wound up creating a snowball effect because our friend
Laura Norton, about one year or later, heard about the case.
She listened to my episode and decided that she wanted
to start her own full length podcast about it, called
(17:29):
The Foul Line, which covered like an entire season about
the Millbrooks twins case. And she worked so hard to
get billboards for them and spread awareness about it and
raise money for their therapy fund. And there was even
a TV special about it all these years later, and
the Gates got more exposure than it had ever gotten.
And Richi's crescendo when Laura changed careers and entered forensic
(17:52):
genealogy and actually published a book last year titled Lay
Them to Rest, And I'm reading the intro to it
and she mentions on page too. This all started when
I listened to a podcast from Robin Mortar called The
Trail Went Cool. I decided to get into true prime
and I'm thinking, wow, I did release that little episode
years ago. This book may not exist. That just shows
(18:12):
the difference you can make. It's just one episode maybe
a half hour long, that you don't know how many
people are again to listen to it, but here we are,
like nine years later it and just doing that episode
drastically changed people's lives. It's so surreal.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
That was the thing when I first started my podcast,
and I started researching and looking at cases, and I
found DJ's case and it was local to me or
local issues, an hour and a half away, a really
small town. And I started listening and Amanda had done
such a great job with getting his story out there
(18:47):
and getting people to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
And all of these podcasts had done.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
His story, but they had only done thirty minute episodes
forty minute episodes, and I just didn't feel like it
had done justice to it. So when I reached out
to her, because that's the first thing I always do,
is reach out to the family and say, hey, is
this something that you're okay with me doing?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Her words to me were.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
If one person listens to your podcast, that's one more
person that knows about DJ's story. Well, I was like,
that to me, is the philosophy that I've taken after that,
And that's how when I talk to victims family, is hey,
I may not be a big podcast, but if I
can get one more person listening and one more person
talking about it, it's a great thing for it.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah. DJ Ficky's case is another one where podcasting has
made a huge difference. I still remember when Amanda was
reaching out to shows years ago trying to get a
rather story out there, and I think it was on
Charlie's show Crime Lines. And I've seen so many cases
where people are found dead under suspicious circumstances. In its rule,
the suicide and the victims' family are fighting for them,
(19:50):
but it's extremely rare that the suicide really gets overturned.
And in this particular case, not only did they overturn
the ruling, but they charge the suspect with murder, which
almost never had happens. And I'm sure that wouldn't It
wouldn't have occurred unless it had been featured on all
these podcasts and they had spread the story so much.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah, and it was so much pressure, and they put
so much emphasis on not changing it for so long,
and something so silly that was able to get it
changed is an amazing thing that happened. So you guys
know how it ended up getting changed or what caused
the into the snowball to get it changed.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I do not.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I don't think so, Amanda.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
She was so hardcore on Facebook, on social media, on Twitter,
just she just laid into everybody every chance she got,
the Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
The GBI.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
The GBI ended up blocking her on all social media accounts.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
And when she did that, that obviously is against the law,
and she filed a civil rights violation because of it.
The head of the GBI was like, oh, we need
to fix this. So he reached out to her and said, hey,
this is a mistake. We didn't mean to do this.
It was an we accidentally blocked. It was an accident.
She said, that's fine, but because of this, I want
(21:12):
you to sit down and talk to me, and I
want you to listen to my brother's story and then
you tell me what you think. So she was able
to get an interview with the head of the GBI.
She went in, a private detective that was with her
went in. They basically showed all the evidence and within
a week it was changed from suicide to undetermined and
(21:36):
then therefore it was able to go further and was
able to give it everything rolling and charged with.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The murder Holly Molly insane.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
One little, one little thing that nobody was expecting or
that nobody would think about me. But because they blocked
her on Twitter, it opened the door up for her
to get almost have.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A bargaining chip.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
She had some leverage against them and was able to
Oh my god. And that's all it took was her
having a conversation with someone in charge. It shouldn't have
to come to that because everyone lower should see the
same things that this sister did.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Wow, yep, I get so aggravated because.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
I listened to a lot of podcasts because that's what
it do all day long. I just listened at times.
And there was a new podcast that just came out
about Noble. I don't know if you guys know about
that story. That was the crematorium in Walker County, Georgia.
It's a little town called Noble, and the family started
the crematorium years ago. The sun took it over and
(22:42):
he started. At some point in time, his crematorium broke
down and instead of fixing it, he just started stacking
bodies outside. Yes, well, so that happened, and it was.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
A very big story in Georgia.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
The guy ended up getting seventy years in jail because
of it, and all kinds of stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But in the podcast, it.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Started out, I hear the sheriff come across the end
the podcast, and I'm like, sounds familiar, And then I
realized it's the sheriff from Walker County and it's the
same sheriff that was in DJ's case that caused all
the issues and wouldn't refused to prosecute, refuse to change everything,
and refuse to fight for DJ's story. But in the
(23:27):
beginning of that, he gets notified by a gas guy
that goes out to fill a gas tank on this
property that he saw dead bodies on the property.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
The sheriffs, it'll be fine, don't worry about.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
It, blows this off, and oh goodness, he's talking about
how good of a sheriff he is and that he's
very attentive. But then he blows this whole thing off,
and it takes a year later before all this stuff
comes out about this. So I'm like, he did the
same thing in that case, So it's just all cases.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He just is is incompetent in his job.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
It's very incompetent. It it's like, how is he still
a sheriff there.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
That's wild still, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I have been find out in a lot of these
cases and bad sheriffs is that when the reelection comes up,
they run on a post sometimes and that's the job
for twenty thirty years.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
And that's exactly what keeps happening with him, just because
people are like, oh, we can't beat him, we don't
need to. Or some young kid that tries to run
and doesn't have any experience, nobody knows them.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, especially in those small towns where everyone knows everyone
and they don't like change. They don't know what a
new sheriff is going to be like. So many of
them are just like, don't want to rock the boat
and just keep whoever's there, which is obviously not a
good thing because there's a lot of these small towns
that do not help, like the Brandon lost in case
that Whitney and I that was our first time ever
(24:48):
speaking with the family and it was very nerve wracking
to us. They had a Facebook page, a help Find
Brandon Lawson facebook page and that's where we message. So
we reached out met Jason Watts because of that, and
then up doing a couple of foot searches down to
look for him, and on our first search we were
actually able to find clothing that matched what he was
(25:08):
wearing that day. A very tidy town. I believe six
deputies that's all they have. And what is crazy is
the day that we found the clothing out there on
that search, the deputy that came out was the same
one that came out the night Brandon wet Messing as well,
(25:30):
which it's ten years different and it's still the same
couple of cops. Sheriff was like.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh no, he ran away with a woman. He had
a drug past, so they did not even they didn't
even try to search for him there, like he could
go where he wants to go. He's an adult.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
A couple of random people that have no experience doing
foot searches ever in their lives went out there and
within one day was able to find the clothes that
he most likely was wearing that day. And then as
rangers went out, found to actual human remains. And it's
been in DNA testing for a couple of years. What
we're hoping it's back soon.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It just kept getting pushed back for cases that are
newer and they're not cold cases. And stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
So we're hoping we hear back soon. But all of us,
even his family, they all know it's they're pretty sure
it's him.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I remember how surreal it was when I heard that
news because I attended your session at True Crime Cast
Festival in Dallas that you did with Brandon's family, and
that for many years that was one of the most
heavily discussed and analyzed missing persons cases. It was covered
on a number of podcasts. And then I find out
that a couple of relatively podcasters were actually there when
(26:42):
his remains were possibly discovered and the case may have
been solved. And I was just about to ask you
about that because I remember they sent them out for
DNA testing years ago, but you just confirm that they
still have not positively identified him.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, California has like a certain standard. They wanted to
be over ninety percent and for sure that it's him
before they'll release it, and Texas is a little bit different,
so they were going back and forth on if they
were going to say if it's him or not. So
that's where it's in the process of I know the
family is getting very anxious for it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We did an.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Interview with Brandon's wife, Ldessa a couple of months ago,
and she's she just wants somewhere where her kids can
go and greathe and talk to Brandon and besides the
corner road that he was last seen by. So they're
very hopeful that they get the news soon.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And is the Ken census that he probably just went
out and died of exposure. Is that what they're the
leading or is there still some belief that foul play
may have taken place.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I don't think that there's much speculation about if it
was foul play.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I believe that he probably.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Went out there and died of exposure, got bit by
a snake, that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Based on the terrain that we were in when we
found the clothing items.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
It's very rocky, lots of cactus. It's not the safest place,
that's for sure. And the amount of remains that were found,
I don't know if they would ever be able to
determine what actually happened, unfortunately, but just knowing and not
having that question anymore that, oh, did he run away?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
There is enough for the family.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And we actually did a search a few months ago
to see if we can find his keys, his wallet,
because we didn't find any of that, and his wife
is she's just amazing. She has way more knowledge than
a lot of these other families have about what happened
to there the scene loved one and so I know
we won't know what exactly happened out there that night,
(28:43):
but if it's confirmed to be branded, that's so much
more than a lot of other families get.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
So she's so grateful, which is so heartfelt.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A lot of that families don't even get that, get yes,
the victims. So I'm sure she's grateful for that at
the very least.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, Yeah, she definitely is.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
And it makes it so hard when you talk to
families that have no idea, and especially when law enforcement
or people automatically say, oh, they ran away because hey,
their history or their past, and that makes it so
bad because that's not true, especially when something didn't happen
(29:19):
like that.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
In our season.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
In one of the episodes in season two for Me,
was a young guy he was driving from Jacksonville back home.
There were some drug issues and it was known that
he did some drugs and things like that, but he
was talking to his uncle.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
It's Braden Rose is the name of the case.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
And he was talking to his uncle, talking to his
uncle and then just lost contact. Nobody heard from him,
just disappeared. Nobody knew where he was at, and the police,
their aspect of it was, oh, it's fine, he's an adult,
he can.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Go wherever he wants.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
They did really hard searches, ended up finding Facebook went
crazy with the case.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
They ended up finding.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
His car in a tow yard in Collington County, South Carolina.
They the family said, okay, how did he get there?
The police towed his car there, so they knew even
though all of these missing person reports were out there,
his car had been towed. They never notified anybody that
his car had been towed. They never put two and
(30:24):
two together. So finally his uncle said, okay, we're going
to go out. We're going to do a search. Where
was the car towed from? So they gave the exact
location where the car was towed from. They set up
Tech Texas Equi Search to come out. They had some
dogs they were going to bring out to that area.
His uncle went down the day that they were going
(30:46):
to meet twenty five foot off the road.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
They found him deceased.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
And you know, so his uncle is the one that
went there found him and the police were like, oh, sorry,
we didn't realize he in. The police had towed his
car from that spot, and then he had supposedly his
blood alcohol level is the drugs in his system were
like eighty.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Times the normal level of.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Methamphetamine that and there's no way that it would have
been that much. That he would have never been able
to drive or do anything with that much in his system.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And there was some.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Blood forced trauma, some things like that. I just finally
got and see autopsy stuff from it, so I'm going
to take a look through all of that. The police reports.
But they said, oh, he died of a drug overdose.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I was just about to ask. I'm like, let me
guess they say he died from a drugover day.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I want to eat from his car.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's crazy. And the fact he was right there, same
thing with Brandon Lawson, within a mile of where his
car was.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Hurring fee in a lot of these cases where the
police miss a victim and then the family or advocates
do with their own search and then they're the one's
who uncovered the answers.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Unfortunate that the police look at these guys and gals as.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What their history is.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Okay, they've done drugs in the past, so therefore that's
what they're doing now, or they their lower income, they're
in a known drug house. So with DJ's case, it
was an own drug house. They'd been out there when
I did research on this case. They'd been out to
that house sixty three times prior and seventeen times after
for drug related or fight related issues. So when they
(32:28):
got that nine to one one call that they closed
it in their mind, No, we're going to go out
here and build with a suicide, because that's what they said.
They went out there, they closed it up as quick
as possible, which.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Luckily they didn't.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Luckily that the police officer did continue to look into
it and continue to interview people after the fact of them.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Saying it was a suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So that's good, But other things don't have that.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Don't have that that that that luxury. I get people
when they hear they hear DJ's case, they are Braden's
case or like a Amber's case, they'll message me and say, hey,
can you look into mine. I don't think it was
a suicide. I'm like, yeah, send me everything you've got,
and they have a page and a half police report
(33:14):
that says suicide. I'm like, there's unfortunately, and this is
from ten years ago. One case that I'm that message
me and I'm like, there's nothing I can I don't
know what else to do, and I'm so heartbroken in myself.
I want to be able to look into it, but
it did. I'm not able to because there's just no
information or nobody will talk to me from here. You
(33:34):
could talk to this person and this person and they're like,
I'm not talking to you about that. Okay, great, So
how am I supposed to go further with that? It's
hard to tell. Somebody's family is Look, I would love
to help you, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
We've shared a bunch of stories here about bad a
police work, but I faithfully have a happney story to
share now about one where the police went above and
beyond the call of duty to solve one of the
cases I cover. In twenty twenty, I was approached from
a woman who was reaching out to podcasters to see
if they would cover the case of her grandmother, Mary
(34:07):
Jane ben Gilder. We had gone missing all the way
back in nineteen forty five, and obviously this woman didn't
know her grandmother, but she still wanted to find out
what happened to her because it was one of those
things where you could pinpoint which where she went missing
because she had a husband and a bunch of children.
She lived in West Virginia and then she decided to
relocate to Ohio and got a job at a munitions
(34:29):
factory to help the World War iiO efforts. But then
around March to nineteen eighty forty five, she just dropped
off the radar. No one knew what happened to her.
She was never officially reported missing, and of course there
was no evidence of foul plays, so she could have
walked away. We just didn't know. We just didn't have
any evidence. But the family reached out to a police
detective in Shelby, Ohioine Adam Turner, and he actually agreed
(34:53):
to open a new investigation, even though the case was
seventy five years old at that time, and he was
all four family reaching out for podcasters and YouTube videos
to cover the case because he felt it's so old
that I just wanted to get as much information out
there as possible because I have so little to work with,
and we had a phone conversation. He was very cooperative,
(35:14):
shared everything he had on the case, and just last
year they actually solved it of Ark by pure chance
because he had put her employment record from her time
working on the NIIS factory on a website because he
wanted people to have as much information as possible, and
an amateur sleuth actually contacted him and says, you might
(35:34):
want to check out the name of the person listed
as her supervisor, and that he pulled up this guy's
name and am on the find a Grave website and
they looked at his wife who had died in nineteen
ninety and they noticed that her name was Mary Jane.
She had a different last name, but she had Mary
g Van Gilder's exact birth date. So he starts thinking
to himself, maybe they got married and went off and
(35:56):
started a new life together. So he got in touch
with the gray daughters of this other Mary Jane got
their DNA and it turned out to be a match
to the family of Mary Jane Dan Gilder, which showed
that she just decided to go off start a new
life with a new family before she died of natural
causes in nineteen nineties. And I remember watching the press
(36:17):
conference while it was live streaming online, and he showed
photos of Mary Jane in nineteen forty five and photos
of this woman in the nineteen eighties, shortly before she died,
when she was old, and I was like, oh my god,
that has to be the same person. That's totally the
same person. And then he announced that yes it was,
and he had conclusively solved this case. And he even
gave the trail and pulled a shadowt he wanted to
(36:39):
give a shoutder to all podcasts and all YouTube shows
that had covered the case. And we saw our logo
up there in the background during the live stream of
so in School, and it's like, we do all these
cases from the Marne era where the police won't do anything,
and this guy took a case from nineteen forty five
and managed to solve that after all these years. And
it was just such exciting thing to be a part of,
(37:01):
because just this woman decided to reach out all these
podcasters to law enforcement to try to find a grandmother
she had never met to went missing seventy five years ago,
and all these efforts paid off.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
This is the best.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Story I've literally ever heard in my entire life, because
first of all, police officers are doing an amazing job.
And second of all, she really did run away, which
never happens.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I swear that is.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Everyone thinks that's what's happened. They ran away, they ran off,
they got tired of their life. But I have not
heard of one where that actually was the case. And
so now this is such a positive thing.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, I know that her granddaughters, her family members had
nixed feelings because he technically did abandon her children, but
she did happen in use of marriage, and she probably
felt that we go to court to me try to
get divorce, he'll get custody of the children, because that's
just the way it was back in the nineteen forties.
But it does sound like she had good happen is
when she found her new husband, and all her children said,
(38:03):
and her grandchildren said, she was a great mother, a
great grandmother. So she at least lived the last forty
five years of her life and happiness and died to
natural causes.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, does suck for her children, but.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Right it's one of those it's one of those good
and bad type stores. Bad for the family, but good
that the result and the end result was a positive
one for everyone. Everybody at least everybody knows now as well.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And as another cool side effect of this, another lead
that Detective Turn investigated was they had found a Jane
Doe in Ohio in nineteen sixty eight who died of
the mysterious causes, and he arranged to have the body
zoomed because he wondered, maybe if this is Mary Jane,
and even if it turns out that this woman is
not her, I could possibly provide closure for another family.
(38:52):
So they exumed the body, did DNA testing and found
out that the Jane Doe was actually a John Doe
that they had made it was back in the nineteen
six so they misgendered the victim and John Doe was
eventually identified by DDI Catstey as a guy named Albert
Frost who had gone missing in the nineteen sixties. So
that's exactly what happened. He provided a resolution for another
(39:14):
family about a victim who had been missing by a
complete accident. He wasn't even planning to, but he essentially
saw two missing persons cases in one just by this
extra effort.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
Amazing that I know, I say it a lot, but
that is actually amazing that he was able to do.
And it's so frustrating that people that police officers don't
use the tools.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
That are out there for them to do that.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
It's such a great thing when they actually let people help.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Agreed, because we can help sometimes.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's true because this is the town Shelby, Ohio. It's
a small place. I don't think it has a lot
of violent crime. But I remember at the press conferences
cap And says, do not commit a crime in Shelby, Ohio,
because Adam Turner will catch you. You're the most relentous
police officers set.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
So cute, so cute. I love it. You have the
best stories, Robin.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Have You had some great stories with interaction with law
enforcement or family at happy endings. Yet during your tenure, I.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Can say with Amber's story, the current they said I'm
doing right now is that the local small town police
was an issue. But the Kentucky State Police and the
State's Attorney have been amazing. They've been so good with
the family and kind of If you don't know the story,
she was killed in a prominent dentist house.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
He was really well known in town, owns a bar
and a.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Restaurant in town. Owns a dentist's office in town. The
first call he made on the morning that she passed away,
he called the sheriff or the police chief. Then he
called the mayor, and then he called nine to one
to one, and by the time the police showed up,
the chief of police was already at his house. Luckily,
(41:09):
the Kentucky State Police overheard the call come across the
radio and was like, Oh, we'll just stop and see
if we can help, walked in and solve what had
happened and took the case over at that point in time,
and they've just been absolutely amazing and doing everything they
can to make sure that the people that cause the
issue are being prosecuted. Everybody that's tried to cover it
(41:32):
up is being prosecuted. The state's attorney has said, We're
not going to let this case go.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
We're not letting the town prosecute it. I'm prosecuting it.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
The police have been in contact, The Kentucky State Police
have been in contact with Amber's family, letting them know
what's going on. Every stage of everything. There's been issues
with politics in the state of Kentucky, with the DNA
testing and things like that. It's been a very long
(42:02):
process because they're just they're really far behind on that
type of stuff. And but they've been very good about
talking with the family, letting them know what's going on,
what they're waiting on, why.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
They haven't done something.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
So that's to me, has been the positive side of
the police. Yeah, there was that negative in the beginning,
but the Kentucky State Police have done everything and their
detectives have done everything right for the family. They've communicated
with the family, and they've made it to where the
people were arrested in July.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
So Basie, I did think of one where law enforcement
was amazing. The case is Julia Golden out of Arkansas,
tiny town there.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Whitney and I visited with the victim's daughter. She was
three when her mom was murdered in their house, stabbed
so many times, her throat splint, very gruesome scene. She
was the one that found her and she went and
got help and all of that. We wanted to talk
to the state police that had the case, but then
(43:06):
we were also going to go to the small town
to see if we could talk to the police chief
there as well as the county because there was a
trial and then acquit all it so we started at
the state police. Luckily they were able to meet with us.
We didn't have an appointment, but they brought us right in,
spoke about the case where it was at, and it
was just point blank they said, unless something crazy happens,
(43:29):
there's never going to be a resolution in this case.
They could not find any of the evidence. They have
no transcripts, they have nothing, and they tried to find
it and they have nothing and that's all they could do.
So that wasn't the greatest experience, but they at least
told us that to our faces. Then we spoke with
the county was also good. They're also like, hey, we
(43:50):
don't have any evidence.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
We would love to reopen this, but there's just nothing.
We get to the tiny town speak with the police chief.
We're talking in this building is no bigger than a
three bedroom house, very small.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
He meets us. Obviously, it's kind of southern place.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
All for a snacks and coffees and all everything that
we could possibly have, and he was once again, hey,
we don't have the evidence box.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
He said.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
He personally went to so many different locations because this
murder happened back in the late nineteen eight This police
station had moved three times since then. Once it had flooded,
once this and all this crazy stuff. So he said
he personally had went to each of the locations that
the records could have been at search through all of it.
(44:40):
He had a couple deputies go with him and they
went through everything. They had this old jailhouse that they
once had as a storage room. He said he looked
through everything. He still couldn't find it. But the fact
that you can tell he was authentic and genuine about
his search, and he apologized profusely. It was like, this
(45:00):
is unacceptable what happened, not only to your mother, but
how this case has been dealt over the last thirty years.
I apologize for everyone before me because obviously he wasn't
sheriff when her mother was killed. But it just a
little bit of support and tearing attitude really made a difference.
(45:22):
Even though delivering the same news that the Arkansas State
Police had given the county gave, his just came off
so much better. And you can tell that the guy
really did try, versus the other ones that were more
a little bit like, oh sorry, there's nothing we can do.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That attitude really means a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Definitely, I've seen a lot of cases where they're still unsolved,
but you can tell that law enforcement is doing everything
in their power to try to solve it and doing
everything properly, and it's just out of their hands sometimes
why they can't solve it. So it is refreshing when
they actually put the effort in are very compassionate towards
you and the thing. Families.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, that's what families want. They understand sometimes it is
a rock and a hard place and there is no
way to go forward without a new piece of evidence
or a confession or a tip that brings it all together.
They know they I feel like they've.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Already lost hopes so many times that they have that
in their back pocket, like they know it might not
turn out the way that they want, but just being
empathetic and listening and that carrying attitude is all they
really want. They want to know someone is fighting for
their loved one and then they're.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Not being forgotten.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
And if we can just do the bare minimum, if
we could just do that, it would be so much
better for most of these families.
Speaker 5 (46:45):
And that's what the hard part that comes down to.
It is that a lot of times the people that
we're speaking with have nothing to do with the case
when it originally started, and it's been you know, it's
been through hands after hands, and either evidence is lost,
things are forgotten every year that gets added to something.
(47:05):
You know, people pass away, you know, and memories and
things like that just fade away.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
So when you do.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Find someone that is compassionate and they do care about
it and they are actually genuinely trying to do something,
even if they can't do very much, if they're trying
to genuinely do something, I think it means more to
the family than anything.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Do you have any funny podcasting story to me? Which
she close off with a funny podcasting story.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
That's so hard for me because I don't well, yes,
of my most of my stuff is ends up. Just
it's it's hard to have. I wish I had something funny.
I do want to start a funny podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
One of the weirdest things I've ever experienced occurage several
years ago because we had Google alerts set up so
that we will be alerted if the trail went cold
gets mentioned anything new, because that's how we find out
when we're featured in like news articles and stuff. Well,
one time, I found out that The Trail Went Cold
had been featured in a piece of erotic fan fiction
that someone had written at a website, and I read
(48:08):
at the beginning where it says this it was a
disclaimer saying this story mentions the Trail Went Cold and
My Favorite Murder, but has no association with either of
these podcasts, And I was dreading whether I wanted to
read it. Is this a weird fan fiction bight health
like Georgia and Aaron from My Favorite Murders. Thankfully, it
turned out to be taped and I was not one
of the characters. It turned out that it was like
(48:30):
based on some anime characters from Japan or some sort,
and the worst they did in the whole story was
get together in front of a fireplace and kissed. There
wasn't any they x Ray did, and that he just
talked about how the characters had a bonded interest in
true crimes. So the writers said that they sat down
and listened to such podcasts as My Favorite Murder and
The Trail Went Cold before they had their nights.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Kiss into this belly.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It turned into a nice, lighthearted one, but that's when
I felt heay, you know, you made it when you're
being mentioned in no other people erotic fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I have yet to do that, so I have not
made it yet, but I'll let you know.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
Oh day, I'm sink I'm gonna have to go in
and put Google searches to make sure that I'm not
in anyone erotic fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yes, but of course when I shared this story on
social media with my fellow podcast was the first thing
they said was, but wait, diap.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Perceives O court everybody. Okay, so mine's not.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's funny now looking back at it, and it probably
taught me a lesson. So Whitney and I were working
on the Levi Fredy case out of the Georgia Little
Boy who is abducted and shot, a horrible case. It
really sticks with me. I have a son named Levi,
he was around that age. It was another one that
(49:50):
we went and visited the location. He was abducted while
riding his bike home from a friend's house.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
And this is a rural area.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
There's no sidewalks or anything like that. In that particular day,
he didn't want to He didn't want to ride by
these big dogs that always barked at him. So he
took the longer way, and so we actually drove both
of the routes to see, like how much further because
get it a lay of the land, A horrific case.
It wasn't about that case, but if there was someone
(50:19):
involved that was currently in a prison system. Now he
wasn't involved, like he was a suspect or of Levi's murder,
but he was in prison for stabbing one of the
possible suspects. They had been friends and roommates for a
long time and then something happened and he ended up
stabbing him. So he's in prison. So I one day,
(50:41):
I don't I must have been bored. I decided I
wanted to write this guy in prison and see if
he would just tell me anything about.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
His ex roommate slash friend. So I write him.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
We have a po box. Obviously I'm not giving my
home address. I didn't even put my last name or
the podcast name. Literally just said I am a host
of a podcast. He writes back very quickly, which shocked
me first of all. But and it was a quick
little letter, a one pager, and it said, oh he
would love to talk. He's not going to talk about
(51:14):
anything that happened Levi Frady right then. He just wanted
to ell see who I was and see if I
would write him back.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Okay, the first letter literally had nothing in it.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Okay, I don't write him back because now I'm freaked
out at this moment. Yeah, So he writes another letter,
and he's about to get out of prison, and this
letter was a good twelve fourteen pages long. He described
in depth his house that he is going to be
living in once he gets out. He invited me to
(51:47):
this house and that I could start a new life
with him.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'm telling you. He described the wood paneling in this house,
the trim, how he had this wood stove that would
be perfect. It was so creep to me.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
He did, however, in that same letter, give us some
information true or not true. I don't know how much
you could believe people, But he did say a few
things about the Levi Frady murder in that letter, so
I forward that along to the FBI. There has been
no arrest or anything since that, and that probably happened
about nine months ago. But yeah, that will be the
(52:22):
very last time that I ever write anyone in prison.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
I was gonna say, what did you.
Speaker 5 (52:26):
Put in that letter that he's inviting you to come
live with him.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
I have no clue. I thought it was very straight
to the point.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Hey, I found your name blah blah blah, I know
your roommates with blah blah blah. Can you tell me
what you know about the Levi Frady murder? Nothing personal,
But now looking back, I'm like, Okay, I had to
do it once to get it out of my system
and now not going to do it again.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
At least you have a story to tell now, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (52:55):
I've thought about doing it on a couple of different things,
but I always end up talking myself out of it
because how'm nice?
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Do I really want to start that? And because you don't.
Speaker 5 (53:05):
It's just like you said, you don't know the information,
if what they're telling you, if it's is it real
or are they just making stuff up.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
To keep you talking?
Speaker 2 (53:14):
No funny story for you from you, bro right, funny
stories that I think.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
I'm still the baby and the podcasting, so I'm not
there yet, but hopefully soon.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, you'll have something either awkward or word sunny or
every eventual.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Funding I do is awkward.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
So it's okay, So I guess we'll wrap this up
Thanks so much for joining me Melissa and Robert, and
I'm sure I will see both of you at podcasting
events in twenty twenty five. Melissa, I just was ready
toter for Advocacy Con last week, so I will see
you in Indianapolis at the end of March. And yeah,
see Robert at least at the True Crime Podcast Festival, So.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Robert will be at Advocacy Con as well.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yeah, sure, mixture is.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
A busy year I think for podcasting events that I
actually want to.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Attend, so yeah, that makes the difference.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
But yeah, we're so excited to have you both there.
Speaker 4 (54:08):
I'm excited to be there.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yep, excited to be there too. And I'm sure we'll
have some more funny stories to sell when we see something.
Thank you both have a good eye.
So hello everyone, and welcome to a special joint podcast
collaborative episode which was organized by our friend Josh Hallmark
of True Crime BS podcast. He thought it would be
a good idea for the holidays to get some of
the podcasteries together to do group chats where we would
talk about random topics, and he pretty much selected it
and grouped us together at random. I'm here with a
(00:20):
one host of a podcast at normally s two co host.
That's Melissa from Navigating Advocacy and also Robert Palmer from
the Broken System podcast. And even though we have met
each other and hung out multiple times podcasting events, this
is the first time we recorded an episode together. So
really exciting.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Guests, same for me.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
I am excited to chat with you guys for the
next little bit. So yes, like Robin said, I am Melissa.
I am one of the hosts of Navigating Advocacy podcast.
We started during COVID really just chatting about true crime
and then decided we wanted to start working with families
(01:00):
and rebranded and now we work with families on every
single episode that comes out.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
That's awesome.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
And I'm Robert with a Broken System podcast, and I
started my podcast at a change in my life, left
a corporate world and moved into a personal journey of
business ownership and filled my free time with podcasting and
fell into being tugged on my heart with some cases
that are was local to my area and local to
(01:31):
the Southeast, and just and started that advocacy journeysy journey
that way.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And I'm Robin Warder of the Trail and Cold podcast.
I'm pretty much the old veteran here because I've been
around for a long time. At the time of recording this,
I'm only a few months shy from my nine year
anniversary book. Podcast I started in February of twenty sixteen
when they were really a handful of true crime podcasts
out there. The boom was just about to start where
it became very popular and a lot of people started
(01:57):
their shows. And I decided, as a fan of the
TV show Unsolved Mysteries, that I was going to cover
a lot of the cases that were featured on the
show that were still unsolved today and hope that people
might be interested in listening to it. And it turned
out they did. I got pretty lucky and still going
strong all these years later, after more than four hundred episodes,
and it's been great to meet so many podcasters like
(02:18):
YouTube over the years, just to see how much the
genre has evolve.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (02:22):
Congratulations all that that's an awesome achievement.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Seriously, that's a long time to be podcasted, so but
that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
And I've shared the story a few times before. But
I originally hoped to be a YouTube series. I think
it was all the way back in twenty thirteen where
I was going to start a show called the Unsolved
Mystery Fanatic where I would literally dress as Robert Stack
in a trench coat and do host segments and show
clips from the original Unsolved Mystery show and analyze the cases.
(02:53):
And we got one episode done and it was on
YouTube for about half an hour, and then we got
cold for copyright. Fringe mus By Cosgro Mirror, the production
company that does Unsolved Mysteries, took a couple of years
and we came up with we brainstormed a new idea
and then figured out, why not just do a podcast
where I cans talk in front of the microphone and
not have to worry about standing in front of a
camera and worry about copyright infringements and it turned out
(03:16):
to be the correct decision.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's crazy. I had never heard that story before.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
And yeah, video on YouTube is a much too different
realm Whitney and I try to do it. It takes
a lot more work than your typical podcast episodes, so.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Same here.
Speaker 5 (03:36):
I've done one or two episodes on YouTube. Typically they're
when I have the family on and with the current
case that I'm on right now, Amber Spridland, they have
so many questions after court hearings. So what we've started
doing is going on YouTube live so after the court hearings,
the family can just come on and answer all the questions.
(03:57):
Because on the Facebook group it would just get so
crazy and it would be the same question.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
Over and over again.
Speaker 5 (04:03):
So we were able just to go live on YouTube,
do that, record it, and then post it on the
Facebook group and say, hey, if you have questions from today,
go here and listen to this. So that's been one
kind of venture for me that's been successful.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
On this time, for this app for this case.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Yeah, I do that a few times too, Like every Thursday,
I do live streams on Facebook with my listeners where
I talk about the featured case on that week's podcast
episode and they send in questions of comments. It's a
post show for each of my episodes, and it works
well because I just recorded under these circumstances where I
don't have to wear a trench code or anything or
have a loose pretty myself, and it works out pretty well.
(04:42):
I don't know if either of you two attended it,
but back at the True Crime Podcast Festival in Dallas,
I actually screamed the long lost episode of The Unsolved
Mysteryes Fanatic. We had a panel session where I screened
it on there and a lot of the podcasts wanted
to see me back when I had a goatee and
was dressed into trench coats, so we all had a
good laugh. It's just see how the how the trail
(05:03):
went Cold's original incarnation.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
I was not there, but I would have loved to
have been, and I think we need to press for
that to happen again.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I can screen it again because not everyone was there
to see it, so maybe I'll do that next year. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
I didn't see it either, and I didn't even actually
hear about it, So now I'm like, what the heck?
Speaker 2 (05:22):
How can I miss that?
Speaker 4 (05:23):
How can I go back to wayback machine and find it.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Yes, definitely do it again.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
I'll do it, yeah, because I can't post it on
YouTube without getting pulled. I think before I screened it
at the festival, I think maybe five or ten people
in the world had seen mad videos, so they were
one of the lucky ones to be able to eat it.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
So cool.
Speaker 5 (05:45):
So when I guess for me, Robin, I have a
question for you, just coming from my aspect, when you
say you have almost four hundred episodes in your podcast,
how do you get through without getting fatigued? How do
you get because I'll get five, six, seven, eight episodes
into a case and I feel podcast fatigue come in
(06:08):
for me, I do.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I don't know about you, guys.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, I'm lucky that I really haven't felt too much
fatigue over the past nine years because I haven't taken
a lot of time off. And I think it's just
because of my background, because I got a postgraduate degree
in script writing. I really wanted to be a screenwriter
who wrote movies and TV shows and wound up just
doing podcasting instead. This is really what I wanted to do,
(06:33):
is just write. And I don't want to say that
this felt easy, but after so many years of taking
scriptwriting class and trying to come up with fictional scripts
where I come up with fictional stories, fictional plotlines, writing
scripts every week about real life events just felt like
a break, like I could just didn't have to change eything.
All I would have to do is share of the facts.
And that's why I really like to do. Unlike some
(06:54):
other shows, I do not hire writers to do it
for me. I still write my own material, so I
just feel them myself that I'm lucky that I've now
been able to find some sort of career writing. Like
not what I was expecting many years ago, but it
works out pretty well. And I just love the process
of writing, researching and putting it together in the script.
And that's why I think it prevents me from suffering
(07:16):
from too much fatigue.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
I can answer that, Robert, because I do get fatigued
every now in this, but usually with the live events
or the conferences when there's a lot back to back.
I'm just naturally an introvert, so when there's like lots
of meetings, lots of family member interviews and then these conferences,
(07:37):
I do get worn out quite a bit. Luckily, I
have a co host, so we'd split everything straight down
the middle.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
We write, produce, do everything on our own.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
And if I'm ever feeling like, hey, I need to
chill out for a few days, She's got my.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Back and back and forth.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
I don't know how you guys do it just on
your own, because that sounds terrifying to me.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
And I'm so glad that I have a partner in this.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
If something that's happening, I can always bounce ideas or
complain or vent to her and she understands, so it
definitely makes it easier that way.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
I still remember when I started in twenty sixteen, virtually
all the true crime podcasts I know had multiple hosts,
like Generation Why and Thinking Sideways. So I was terrified
at that point, saying how many podcasts are going to
listen to one person talking for thirty to forty five minutes?
And bakfully they did. And I should add though, that
I'm lucky enough to have my own editor, not a
(08:33):
lifelong but a friend that I met in scriptwriting twenty
years ago who was an editor by trade. So he
does all the technical stuff for me, which I'm not
skilled that, so all I can worry about is writing
and content, so that takes a big load up my back.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:47):
For me, it's everything, and I get so deep into
because it is one case that I typically cover seven
to eight episodes on. I get so just drawn into it,
and with all the research, I don't for se right,
I kind of wing all my episodes because I feel
(09:07):
like it comes off more natural for me and I'm
just so what you hear is typically me just sitting
in front of the camera or the in front of
the recording and just I record and.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
Edit as I go along.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
So there's not a ton of editing that has to
come in the back end, but there's a lot of
research into it, and it takes its toll on me
just physically and emotionally, I guess would be the way
to put that. So it'll take a lot out of me,
especially like Amber's case, it's taken a lot out of me.
So I've had to take just a mental health break,
(09:42):
I guess is the word, and just took a step
back and said, Okay, I'm gonna wait. After the first
of the year, I'm gonna hit it hard again. But
then I go back into it. Okay, now I've got
to I'm finishing up Amber's case, and now I've got
to start researching another case and it's going to be
just the same kind of scenario again. I've got to
figure out a way to not get myself into that rut.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
If that makes.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Sense, it does. This is probably not a good tip,
and a therapist would be like, oh no, don't do that.
I'm a compartmentalizer.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
I have a day job, a podcast, I am a mom,
so like everything goes in these little boxes, and as
soon as I finish the podcast realm and I'm onto
something else, it's almost like that's shut.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Therapists would probably say, I need to.
Speaker 3 (10:24):
Look into that, But that's just how my brain works,
and I'm always very this is my next event or
this is my d date, and I focus on that
until it's over, and then I go on to the
next thing. I don't think about the next thing until
the thing that I'm working on is over.
Speaker 4 (10:38):
And that's how I do it.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
It is that I'll end up taking it and putting
it all into a little box and closing that box
up and then taking a break for two months of
now I'm good, let me reopen. Let's open a new box,
or reopen that box. And go back into it.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Plus, it's such a heavy topic that we're day in
and day out, especially working with families or just researching
all of these cases. It is very it's it gets
to you, it really does. So you definitely need to
figure out how to take care of yourself at the
same time.
Speaker 4 (11:12):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, Melissa mentioned that she works a day job, and
I still work one too, even after all the years,
because I have a cushy government job that I broke
and really want to give up. But I'm curious if
you two have similar things in your personal life where
you'll cross paths with people outside the podcast the world
and find out you have a podcast, and how do
they react to it. Do you know many people like
(11:34):
friends or coworkers or family members who listen to your
show and provide comments on it.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
So I've been like a recognized in public, which is
weird because we do podcasting and no one really should
recognize me.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
But yeah, obviously there are some coworkers that know that
I have a podcast. I don't necessarily know if they listen,
they think it's cool, and any time there's anything true
crime related in a whole white world, they think I
automatically know about it, so that's interesting, but I hope
they don't listen.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Actually that this is the time of the year.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
I usually find out that people are listening to my
podcast that I know because I'll get a text message
with the Spotify wrap up and I'll be like third
behind two really big podcasts, and then it mind will
be number three. I'm like, Okay, that's weird. Now I'm
afraid to ask. Am I supposed to ask?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
What do you think? Or how am I doing?
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I'm so scared to ask that question because I'm one
afraid they're gonna.
Speaker 4 (12:32):
Tell me you're horrible.
Speaker 5 (12:33):
I'll stop listening after the first episode. The only reason
why you're on there is because only listen to the
other two and I listen to yours once. I'm like, so,
I never really asked that question in two. I don't
want to put somebody on the spot to say if
they don't like it. I don't want them to tell
me if they do like it, So I try not
to ever do that. But there are people that do
send me that and say, hey, look, you're number four
(12:54):
on my Spotify. I'm like, you don't listen to very
many podcasts that if Min's Noumber three.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Oh no, but yeah, I'm coming up that I've been
towned on myself. Where I go into my day job.
I don't like openly say hey, I'm a podcaster, but
I'll just gradually mentioned in conversations and then it eventually spreads,
and then they get curious when they see I take
a couple weeks off a year to go to these
podcasting events, which they have never heard of before. So
(13:20):
they start asking more questions, and then I get to
the point where some coworkers say they've heard of it,
but they don't offer their opinion, but other co workers
say they really like it and that they've listened to
it on road trips, which is a nice compliment. And
the funniest moment is when my HR personal work came
up to my desk one day and said, Robin, I
listened to your podcast. It's really good. They went in
(13:43):
sire relief and stuff. I'm saying, you know, it's just
gonna call me the office saying there's concerns that you're
talking about all these unsolved murders and missing person's cases.
But no, the feedback that I've gotten in my first
of the life has been positive.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
That's yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Yeah, I would have been a nervous wreck of hr
would have talked to me about listening to it.
Speaker 5 (14:03):
Well, I guess that's the positive about owning my own
business is I don't have to worry about that, so
there's no feedback that way. I do get a lot
of because I don't post on my personal Facebook page
about the podcast. I keep everything separate, but when we
go to events and things like that, usually I'll post
those pictures and post photos with you guys and things
(14:26):
like that, so those all go on my personal page
and that's where the comments will come from. I didn't
know you had a podcast, and then they go listen
to it. So that's that's usually how I end up
getting people to listen that I know, you know, like.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
In my real life. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Is that the word?
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's Yeah, it's weird to think about, but it's true.
Speaker 1 (14:50):
The most surreal moment for me that kind of hit
me how much the podcast has spread is that I
actually have a cousin who now lives in Australia because
she moved there and got married and started to f
family and she was having a conversation with her friends
there in Tasmania about true crime podcasts, and someone mentioned
the trail went cold and she said, oh, yeah, Robin
Warder is my cousin, and they're like you Robin Warder's cousin.
(15:13):
And this is like thousands of miles away on the
other side of the globe, and there are fans there
like beeking out because they met my cousin. So that
was the moment A really hit me that people are
holistic to the show everywhere.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That's crazy. Yes, I love it so, Robin.
Speaker 3 (15:28):
Over the last nine years, I'm sure there's been some
cases that you've gotten more involved in. Are ones that
stuck with you more than others? Can you talk about
maybe one or two?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, I've done a lot of them, But since we've
all worked with victims family, so I should probably talk
about the first time I was ever approached by victims family,
and that's the disappearance of Jeanette and Jannette Melbrook, a
pair of the African American teenage twins who went missing
together in Georgia and the nineteen ninety and that's a
very unusual set of circum standard. You don't often see
(16:01):
twins go missing together. And what was notorious about this
one is that the police didn't do anything for two
decades and no missing Verson's report was ever officially filed
until I think twenty thirteen, and that made a story
like the Huppington Post a few media outlets, but after
that the investigation headed debt hauled again. Their sister, Sean
(16:22):
Pay started reaching out to a whole bunch of like
podcasters asking if they would cover her sister's cases. And
this was very early in the days of podcasting, when
not many people were doing this, and I wasn't the first.
There was a great podcast that cover missing persons called
fit Air, which did an episode They're sadly no longer around,
(16:42):
and I think a friend of hers found out about
the trail and Colder reached out to me, and I
was just lowed away because I'd only been around for
maybe ten to eleven episodes at that point. Yeah, and
not many podcasts were doing nets, but I read about it.
I thought it sounded so outrageous, so I got in
touch with her and covered it, and she was so
happy about it that The great thing is with podcasting
(17:06):
is that you're your own boss. You don't have to
answer to any executives or corporate people about which cases
to cover. You have full creative reading freedom. And this
ultimately wound up creating a snowball effect because our friend
Laura Norton, about one year or later, heard about the case.
She listened to my episode and decided that she wanted
to start her own full length podcast about it, called
(17:29):
The Foul Line, which covered like an entire season about
the Millbrooks twins case. And she worked so hard to
get billboards for them and spread awareness about it and
raise money for their therapy fund. And there was even
a TV special about it all these years later, and
the Gates got more exposure than it had ever gotten.
And Richi's crescendo when Laura changed careers and entered forensic
(17:52):
genealogy and actually published a book last year titled Lay
Them to Rest, And I'm reading the intro to it
and she mentions on page too. This all started when
I listened to a podcast from Robin Mortar called The
Trail Went Cool. I decided to get into true prime
and I'm thinking, wow, I did release that little episode
years ago. This book may not exist. That just shows
(18:12):
the difference you can make. It's just one episode maybe
a half hour long, that you don't know how many
people are again to listen to it, but here we are,
like nine years later it and just doing that episode
drastically changed people's lives. It's so surreal.
Speaker 5 (18:25):
That was the thing when I first started my podcast,
and I started researching and looking at cases, and I
found DJ's case and it was local to me or
local issues, an hour and a half away, a really
small town. And I started listening and Amanda had done
such a great job with getting his story out there
(18:47):
and getting people to talk about it.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
And all of these podcasts had done.
Speaker 5 (18:51):
His story, but they had only done thirty minute episodes
forty minute episodes, and I just didn't feel like it
had done justice to it. So when I reached out
to her, because that's the first thing I always do,
is reach out to the family and say, hey, is
this something that you're okay with me doing?
Speaker 4 (19:06):
Her words to me were.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
If one person listens to your podcast, that's one more
person that knows about DJ's story. Well, I was like,
that to me, is the philosophy that I've taken after that,
And that's how when I talk to victims family, is hey,
I may not be a big podcast, but if I
can get one more person listening and one more person
talking about it, it's a great thing for it.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Yeah. DJ Ficky's case is another one where podcasting has
made a huge difference. I still remember when Amanda was
reaching out to shows years ago trying to get a
rather story out there, and I think it was on
Charlie's show Crime Lines. And I've seen so many cases
where people are found dead under suspicious circumstances. In its rule,
the suicide and the victims' family are fighting for them,
(19:50):
but it's extremely rare that the suicide really gets overturned.
And in this particular case, not only did they overturn
the ruling, but they charge the suspect with murder, which
almost never had happens. And I'm sure that wouldn't It
wouldn't have occurred unless it had been featured on all
these podcasts and they had spread the story so much.
Speaker 5 (20:07):
Yeah, and it was so much pressure, and they put
so much emphasis on not changing it for so long,
and something so silly that was able to get it
changed is an amazing thing that happened. So you guys
know how it ended up getting changed or what caused
the into the snowball to get it changed.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
I do not.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
I don't think so, Amanda.
Speaker 5 (20:34):
She was so hardcore on Facebook, on social media, on Twitter,
just she just laid into everybody every chance she got,
the Sheriff's Department.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
The GBI.
Speaker 5 (20:44):
The GBI ended up blocking her on all social media accounts.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
And when she did that, that obviously is against the law,
and she filed a civil rights violation because of it.
The head of the GBI was like, oh, we need
to fix this. So he reached out to her and said, hey,
this is a mistake. We didn't mean to do this.
It was an we accidentally blocked. It was an accident.
She said, that's fine, but because of this, I want
(21:12):
you to sit down and talk to me, and I
want you to listen to my brother's story and then
you tell me what you think. So she was able
to get an interview with the head of the GBI.
She went in, a private detective that was with her
went in. They basically showed all the evidence and within
a week it was changed from suicide to undetermined and
(21:36):
then therefore it was able to go further and was
able to give it everything rolling and charged with.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
The murder Holly Molly insane.
Speaker 5 (21:47):
One little, one little thing that nobody was expecting or
that nobody would think about me. But because they blocked
her on Twitter, it opened the door up for her
to get almost have.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
A bargaining chip.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
She had some leverage against them and was able to
Oh my god. And that's all it took was her
having a conversation with someone in charge. It shouldn't have
to come to that because everyone lower should see the
same things that this sister did.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Wow, yep, I get so aggravated because.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
I listened to a lot of podcasts because that's what
it do all day long. I just listened at times.
And there was a new podcast that just came out
about Noble. I don't know if you guys know about
that story. That was the crematorium in Walker County, Georgia.
It's a little town called Noble, and the family started
the crematorium years ago. The sun took it over and
(22:42):
he started. At some point in time, his crematorium broke
down and instead of fixing it, he just started stacking
bodies outside. Yes, well, so that happened, and it was.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
A very big story in Georgia.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
The guy ended up getting seventy years in jail because
of it, and all kinds of stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
But in the podcast, it.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Started out, I hear the sheriff come across the end
the podcast, and I'm like, sounds familiar, And then I
realized it's the sheriff from Walker County and it's the
same sheriff that was in DJ's case that caused all
the issues and wouldn't refused to prosecute, refuse to change everything,
and refuse to fight for DJ's story. But in the
(23:27):
beginning of that, he gets notified by a gas guy
that goes out to fill a gas tank on this
property that he saw dead bodies on the property.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
The sheriffs, it'll be fine, don't worry about.
Speaker 5 (23:40):
It, blows this off, and oh goodness, he's talking about
how good of a sheriff he is and that he's
very attentive. But then he blows this whole thing off,
and it takes a year later before all this stuff
comes out about this. So I'm like, he did the
same thing in that case, So it's just all cases.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
He just is is incompetent in his job.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
It's very incompetent. It it's like, how is he still
a sheriff there.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
That's wild still, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
I have been find out in a lot of these
cases and bad sheriffs is that when the reelection comes up,
they run on a post sometimes and that's the job
for twenty thirty years.
Speaker 5 (24:15):
And that's exactly what keeps happening with him, just because
people are like, oh, we can't beat him, we don't
need to. Or some young kid that tries to run
and doesn't have any experience, nobody knows them.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yeah, especially in those small towns where everyone knows everyone
and they don't like change. They don't know what a
new sheriff is going to be like. So many of
them are just like, don't want to rock the boat
and just keep whoever's there, which is obviously not a
good thing because there's a lot of these small towns
that do not help, like the Brandon lost in case
that Whitney and I that was our first time ever
(24:48):
speaking with the family and it was very nerve wracking
to us. They had a Facebook page, a help Find
Brandon Lawson facebook page and that's where we message. So
we reached out met Jason Watts because of that, and
then up doing a couple of foot searches down to
look for him, and on our first search we were
actually able to find clothing that matched what he was
(25:08):
wearing that day. A very tidy town. I believe six
deputies that's all they have. And what is crazy is
the day that we found the clothing out there on
that search, the deputy that came out was the same
one that came out the night Brandon wet Messing as well,
(25:30):
which it's ten years different and it's still the same
couple of cops. Sheriff was like.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh no, he ran away with a woman. He had
a drug past, so they did not even they didn't
even try to search for him there, like he could
go where he wants to go. He's an adult.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
A couple of random people that have no experience doing
foot searches ever in their lives went out there and
within one day was able to find the clothes that
he most likely was wearing that day. And then as
rangers went out, found to actual human remains. And it's
been in DNA testing for a couple of years. What
we're hoping it's back soon.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
It just kept getting pushed back for cases that are
newer and they're not cold cases. And stuff like that.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
So we're hoping we hear back soon. But all of us,
even his family, they all know it's they're pretty sure
it's him.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I remember how surreal it was when I heard that
news because I attended your session at True Crime Cast
Festival in Dallas that you did with Brandon's family, and
that for many years that was one of the most
heavily discussed and analyzed missing persons cases. It was covered
on a number of podcasts. And then I find out
that a couple of relatively podcasters were actually there when
(26:42):
his remains were possibly discovered and the case may have
been solved. And I was just about to ask you
about that because I remember they sent them out for
DNA testing years ago, but you just confirm that they
still have not positively identified him.
Speaker 3 (26:55):
Yeah, California has like a certain standard. They wanted to
be over ninety percent and for sure that it's him
before they'll release it, and Texas is a little bit different,
so they were going back and forth on if they
were going to say if it's him or not. So
that's where it's in the process of I know the
family is getting very anxious for it.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
We did an.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Interview with Brandon's wife, Ldessa a couple of months ago,
and she's she just wants somewhere where her kids can
go and greathe and talk to Brandon and besides the
corner road that he was last seen by. So they're
very hopeful that they get the news soon.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And is the Ken census that he probably just went
out and died of exposure. Is that what they're the
leading or is there still some belief that foul play
may have taken place.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
I don't think that there's much speculation about if it
was foul play.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
I believe that he probably.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
Went out there and died of exposure, got bit by
a snake, that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Based on the terrain that we were in when we
found the clothing items.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
It's very rocky, lots of cactus. It's not the safest place,
that's for sure. And the amount of remains that were found,
I don't know if they would ever be able to
determine what actually happened, unfortunately, but just knowing and not
having that question anymore that, oh, did he run away?
Speaker 2 (28:18):
There is enough for the family.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
And we actually did a search a few months ago
to see if we can find his keys, his wallet,
because we didn't find any of that, and his wife
is she's just amazing. She has way more knowledge than
a lot of these other families have about what happened
to there the scene loved one and so I know
we won't know what exactly happened out there that night,
(28:43):
but if it's confirmed to be branded, that's so much
more than a lot of other families get.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
So she's so grateful, which is so heartfelt.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A lot of that families don't even get that, get yes,
the victims. So I'm sure she's grateful for that at
the very least.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, Yeah, she definitely is.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
And it makes it so hard when you talk to
families that have no idea, and especially when law enforcement
or people automatically say, oh, they ran away because hey,
their history or their past, and that makes it so
bad because that's not true, especially when something didn't happen
(29:19):
like that.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
In our season.
Speaker 5 (29:21):
In one of the episodes in season two for Me,
was a young guy he was driving from Jacksonville back home.
There were some drug issues and it was known that
he did some drugs and things like that, but he
was talking to his uncle.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
It's Braden Rose is the name of the case.
Speaker 5 (29:39):
And he was talking to his uncle, talking to his
uncle and then just lost contact. Nobody heard from him,
just disappeared. Nobody knew where he was at, and the police,
their aspect of it was, oh, it's fine, he's an adult,
he can.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Go wherever he wants.
Speaker 5 (29:55):
They did really hard searches, ended up finding Facebook went
crazy with the case.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
They ended up finding.
Speaker 5 (30:02):
His car in a tow yard in Collington County, South Carolina.
They the family said, okay, how did he get there?
The police towed his car there, so they knew even
though all of these missing person reports were out there,
his car had been towed. They never notified anybody that
his car had been towed. They never put two and
(30:24):
two together. So finally his uncle said, okay, we're going
to go out. We're going to do a search. Where
was the car towed from? So they gave the exact
location where the car was towed from. They set up
Tech Texas Equi Search to come out. They had some
dogs they were going to bring out to that area.
His uncle went down the day that they were going
(30:46):
to meet twenty five foot off the road.
Speaker 4 (30:49):
They found him deceased.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
And you know, so his uncle is the one that
went there found him and the police were like, oh, sorry,
we didn't realize he in. The police had towed his
car from that spot, and then he had supposedly his
blood alcohol level is the drugs in his system were
like eighty.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
Times the normal level of.
Speaker 5 (31:12):
Methamphetamine that and there's no way that it would have
been that much. That he would have never been able
to drive or do anything with that much in his system.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
And there was some.
Speaker 5 (31:25):
Blood forced trauma, some things like that. I just finally
got and see autopsy stuff from it, so I'm going
to take a look through all of that. The police reports.
But they said, oh, he died of a drug overdose.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
I was just about to ask. I'm like, let me
guess they say he died from a drugover day.
Speaker 4 (31:42):
I want to eat from his car.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
That's crazy. And the fact he was right there, same
thing with Brandon Lawson, within a mile of where his
car was.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
Hurring fee in a lot of these cases where the
police miss a victim and then the family or advocates
do with their own search and then they're the one's
who uncovered the answers.
Speaker 5 (32:00):
Unfortunate that the police look at these guys and gals as.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
What their history is.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Okay, they've done drugs in the past, so therefore that's
what they're doing now, or they their lower income, they're
in a known drug house. So with DJ's case, it
was an own drug house. They'd been out there when
I did research on this case. They'd been out to
that house sixty three times prior and seventeen times after
for drug related or fight related issues. So when they
(32:28):
got that nine to one one call that they closed
it in their mind, No, we're going to go out
here and build with a suicide, because that's what they said.
They went out there, they closed it up as quick
as possible, which.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Luckily they didn't.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
Luckily that the police officer did continue to look into
it and continue to interview people after the fact of them.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
Saying it was a suicide.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
So that's good, But other things don't have that.
Speaker 5 (32:53):
Don't have that that that that luxury. I get people
when they hear they hear DJ's case, they are Braden's
case or like a Amber's case, they'll message me and say, hey,
can you look into mine. I don't think it was
a suicide. I'm like, yeah, send me everything you've got,
and they have a page and a half police report
(33:14):
that says suicide. I'm like, there's unfortunately, and this is
from ten years ago. One case that I'm that message
me and I'm like, there's nothing I can I don't
know what else to do, and I'm so heartbroken in myself.
I want to be able to look into it, but
it did. I'm not able to because there's just no
information or nobody will talk to me from here. You
(33:34):
could talk to this person and this person and they're like,
I'm not talking to you about that. Okay, great, So
how am I supposed to go further with that? It's
hard to tell. Somebody's family is Look, I would love
to help you, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
We've shared a bunch of stories here about bad a
police work, but I faithfully have a happney story to
share now about one where the police went above and
beyond the call of duty to solve one of the
cases I cover. In twenty twenty, I was approached from
a woman who was reaching out to podcasters to see
if they would cover the case of her grandmother, Mary
(34:07):
Jane ben Gilder. We had gone missing all the way
back in nineteen forty five, and obviously this woman didn't
know her grandmother, but she still wanted to find out
what happened to her because it was one of those
things where you could pinpoint which where she went missing
because she had a husband and a bunch of children.
She lived in West Virginia and then she decided to
relocate to Ohio and got a job at a munitions
(34:29):
factory to help the World War iiO efforts. But then
around March to nineteen eighty forty five, she just dropped
off the radar. No one knew what happened to her.
She was never officially reported missing, and of course there
was no evidence of foul plays, so she could have
walked away. We just didn't know. We just didn't have
any evidence. But the family reached out to a police
detective in Shelby, Ohioine Adam Turner, and he actually agreed
(34:53):
to open a new investigation, even though the case was
seventy five years old at that time, and he was
all four family reaching out for podcasters and YouTube videos
to cover the case because he felt it's so old
that I just wanted to get as much information out
there as possible because I have so little to work with,
and we had a phone conversation. He was very cooperative,
(35:14):
shared everything he had on the case, and just last
year they actually solved it of Ark by pure chance
because he had put her employment record from her time
working on the NIIS factory on a website because he
wanted people to have as much information as possible, and
an amateur sleuth actually contacted him and says, you might
(35:34):
want to check out the name of the person listed
as her supervisor, and that he pulled up this guy's
name and am on the find a Grave website and
they looked at his wife who had died in nineteen
ninety and they noticed that her name was Mary Jane.
She had a different last name, but she had Mary
g Van Gilder's exact birth date. So he starts thinking
to himself, maybe they got married and went off and
(35:56):
started a new life together. So he got in touch
with the gray daughters of this other Mary Jane got
their DNA and it turned out to be a match
to the family of Mary Jane Dan Gilder, which showed
that she just decided to go off start a new
life with a new family before she died of natural
causes in nineteen nineties. And I remember watching the press
(36:17):
conference while it was live streaming online, and he showed
photos of Mary Jane in nineteen forty five and photos
of this woman in the nineteen eighties, shortly before she died,
when she was old, and I was like, oh my god,
that has to be the same person. That's totally the
same person. And then he announced that yes it was,
and he had conclusively solved this case. And he even
gave the trail and pulled a shadowt he wanted to
(36:39):
give a shoutder to all podcasts and all YouTube shows
that had covered the case. And we saw our logo
up there in the background during the live stream of
so in School, and it's like, we do all these
cases from the Marne era where the police won't do anything,
and this guy took a case from nineteen forty five
and managed to solve that after all these years. And
it was just such exciting thing to be a part of,
(37:01):
because just this woman decided to reach out all these
podcasters to law enforcement to try to find a grandmother
she had never met to went missing seventy five years ago,
and all these efforts paid off.
Speaker 4 (37:11):
It was amazing.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
This is the best.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Story I've literally ever heard in my entire life, because
first of all, police officers are doing an amazing job.
And second of all, she really did run away, which
never happens.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
I swear that is.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Everyone thinks that's what's happened. They ran away, they ran off,
they got tired of their life. But I have not
heard of one where that actually was the case. And
so now this is such a positive thing.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Yeah, I know that her granddaughters, her family members had
nixed feelings because he technically did abandon her children, but
she did happen in use of marriage, and she probably
felt that we go to court to me try to
get divorce, he'll get custody of the children, because that's
just the way it was back in the nineteen forties.
But it does sound like she had good happen is
when she found her new husband, and all her children said,
(38:03):
and her grandchildren said, she was a great mother, a
great grandmother. So she at least lived the last forty
five years of her life and happiness and died to
natural causes.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, does suck for her children, but.
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Right it's one of those it's one of those good
and bad type stores. Bad for the family, but good
that the result and the end result was a positive
one for everyone. Everybody at least everybody knows now as well.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
And as another cool side effect of this, another lead
that Detective Turn investigated was they had found a Jane
Doe in Ohio in nineteen sixty eight who died of
the mysterious causes, and he arranged to have the body
zoomed because he wondered, maybe if this is Mary Jane,
and even if it turns out that this woman is
not her, I could possibly provide closure for another family.
(38:52):
So they exumed the body, did DNA testing and found
out that the Jane Doe was actually a John Doe
that they had made it was back in the nineteen
six so they misgendered the victim and John Doe was
eventually identified by DDI Catstey as a guy named Albert
Frost who had gone missing in the nineteen sixties. So
that's exactly what happened. He provided a resolution for another
(39:14):
family about a victim who had been missing by a
complete accident. He wasn't even planning to, but he essentially
saw two missing persons cases in one just by this
extra effort.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
Amazing that I know, I say it a lot, but
that is actually amazing that he was able to do.
And it's so frustrating that people that police officers don't
use the tools.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
That are out there for them to do that.
Speaker 5 (39:41):
It's such a great thing when they actually let people help.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
Agreed, because we can help sometimes.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's true because this is the town Shelby, Ohio. It's
a small place. I don't think it has a lot
of violent crime. But I remember at the press conferences
cap And says, do not commit a crime in Shelby, Ohio,
because Adam Turner will catch you. You're the most relentous
police officers set.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
So cute, so cute. I love it. You have the
best stories, Robin.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Have You had some great stories with interaction with law
enforcement or family at happy endings. Yet during your tenure, I.
Speaker 5 (40:23):
Can say with Amber's story, the current they said I'm
doing right now is that the local small town police
was an issue. But the Kentucky State Police and the
State's Attorney have been amazing. They've been so good with
the family and kind of If you don't know the story,
she was killed in a prominent dentist house.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
He was really well known in town, owns a bar
and a.
Speaker 5 (40:48):
Restaurant in town. Owns a dentist's office in town. The
first call he made on the morning that she passed away,
he called the sheriff or the police chief. Then he
called the mayor, and then he called nine to one
to one, and by the time the police showed up,
the chief of police was already at his house. Luckily,
(41:09):
the Kentucky State Police overheard the call come across the
radio and was like, Oh, we'll just stop and see
if we can help, walked in and solve what had
happened and took the case over at that point in time,
and they've just been absolutely amazing and doing everything they
can to make sure that the people that cause the
issue are being prosecuted. Everybody that's tried to cover it
(41:32):
up is being prosecuted. The state's attorney has said, We're
not going to let this case go.
Speaker 4 (41:38):
We're not letting the town prosecute it. I'm prosecuting it.
Speaker 5 (41:42):
The police have been in contact, The Kentucky State Police
have been in contact with Amber's family, letting them know
what's going on. Every stage of everything. There's been issues
with politics in the state of Kentucky, with the DNA
testing and things like that. It's been a very long
(42:02):
process because they're just they're really far behind on that
type of stuff. And but they've been very good about
talking with the family, letting them know what's going on,
what they're waiting on, why.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
They haven't done something.
Speaker 5 (42:15):
So that's to me, has been the positive side of
the police. Yeah, there was that negative in the beginning,
but the Kentucky State Police have done everything and their
detectives have done everything right for the family. They've communicated
with the family, and they've made it to where the
people were arrested in July.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
So Basie, I did think of one where law enforcement
was amazing. The case is Julia Golden out of Arkansas,
tiny town there.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Whitney and I visited with the victim's daughter. She was
three when her mom was murdered in their house, stabbed
so many times, her throat splint, very gruesome scene. She
was the one that found her and she went and
got help and all of that. We wanted to talk
to the state police that had the case, but then
(43:06):
we were also going to go to the small town
to see if we could talk to the police chief
there as well as the county because there was a
trial and then acquit all it so we started at
the state police. Luckily they were able to meet with us.
We didn't have an appointment, but they brought us right in,
spoke about the case where it was at, and it
was just point blank they said, unless something crazy happens,
(43:29):
there's never going to be a resolution in this case.
They could not find any of the evidence. They have
no transcripts, they have nothing, and they tried to find
it and they have nothing and that's all they could do.
So that wasn't the greatest experience, but they at least
told us that to our faces. Then we spoke with
the county was also good. They're also like, hey, we
(43:50):
don't have any evidence.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
We would love to reopen this, but there's just nothing.
We get to the tiny town speak with the police chief.
We're talking in this building is no bigger than a
three bedroom house, very small.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
He meets us. Obviously, it's kind of southern place.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
All for a snacks and coffees and all everything that
we could possibly have, and he was once again, hey,
we don't have the evidence box.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
He said.
Speaker 3 (44:18):
He personally went to so many different locations because this
murder happened back in the late nineteen eight This police
station had moved three times since then. Once it had flooded,
once this and all this crazy stuff. So he said
he personally had went to each of the locations that
the records could have been at search through all of it.
(44:40):
He had a couple deputies go with him and they
went through everything. They had this old jailhouse that they
once had as a storage room. He said he looked
through everything. He still couldn't find it. But the fact
that you can tell he was authentic and genuine about
his search, and he apologized profusely. It was like, this
(45:00):
is unacceptable what happened, not only to your mother, but
how this case has been dealt over the last thirty years.
I apologize for everyone before me because obviously he wasn't
sheriff when her mother was killed. But it just a
little bit of support and tearing attitude really made a difference.
(45:22):
Even though delivering the same news that the Arkansas State
Police had given the county gave, his just came off
so much better. And you can tell that the guy
really did try, versus the other ones that were more
a little bit like, oh sorry, there's nothing we can do.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
That attitude really means a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
Definitely, I've seen a lot of cases where they're still unsolved,
but you can tell that law enforcement is doing everything
in their power to try to solve it and doing
everything properly, and it's just out of their hands sometimes
why they can't solve it. So it is refreshing when
they actually put the effort in are very compassionate towards
you and the thing. Families.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, that's what families want. They understand sometimes it is
a rock and a hard place and there is no
way to go forward without a new piece of evidence
or a confession or a tip that brings it all together.
They know they I feel like they've.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Already lost hopes so many times that they have that
in their back pocket, like they know it might not
turn out the way that they want, but just being
empathetic and listening and that carrying attitude is all they
really want. They want to know someone is fighting for
their loved one and then they're.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
Not being forgotten.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
And if we can just do the bare minimum, if
we could just do that, it would be so much
better for most of these families.
Speaker 5 (46:45):
And that's what the hard part that comes down to.
It is that a lot of times the people that
we're speaking with have nothing to do with the case
when it originally started, and it's been you know, it's
been through hands after hands, and either evidence is lost,
things are forgotten every year that gets added to something.
(47:05):
You know, people pass away, you know, and memories and
things like that just fade away.
Speaker 4 (47:11):
So when you do.
Speaker 5 (47:13):
Find someone that is compassionate and they do care about
it and they are actually genuinely trying to do something,
even if they can't do very much, if they're trying
to genuinely do something, I think it means more to
the family than anything.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
Do you have any funny podcasting story to me? Which
she close off with a funny podcasting story.
Speaker 5 (47:32):
That's so hard for me because I don't well, yes,
of my most of my stuff is ends up. Just
it's it's hard to have. I wish I had something funny.
I do want to start a funny podcast.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
One of the weirdest things I've ever experienced occurage several
years ago because we had Google alerts set up so
that we will be alerted if the trail went cold
gets mentioned anything new, because that's how we find out
when we're featured in like news articles and stuff. Well,
one time, I found out that The Trail Went Cold
had been featured in a piece of erotic fan fiction
that someone had written at a website, and I read
(48:08):
at the beginning where it says this it was a
disclaimer saying this story mentions the Trail Went Cold and
My Favorite Murder, but has no association with either of
these podcasts, And I was dreading whether I wanted to
read it. Is this a weird fan fiction bight health
like Georgia and Aaron from My Favorite Murders. Thankfully, it
turned out to be taped and I was not one
of the characters. It turned out that it was like
(48:30):
based on some anime characters from Japan or some sort,
and the worst they did in the whole story was
get together in front of a fireplace and kissed. There
wasn't any they x Ray did, and that he just
talked about how the characters had a bonded interest in
true crimes. So the writers said that they sat down
and listened to such podcasts as My Favorite Murder and
The Trail Went Cold before they had their nights.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Kiss into this belly.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
It turned into a nice, lighthearted one, but that's when
I felt heay, you know, you made it when you're
being mentioned in no other people erotic fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I have yet to do that, so I have not
made it yet, but I'll let you know.
Speaker 5 (49:05):
Oh day, I'm sink I'm gonna have to go in
and put Google searches to make sure that I'm not
in anyone erotic fan fiction.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yes, but of course when I shared this story on
social media with my fellow podcast was the first thing
they said was, but wait, diap.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Perceives O court everybody. Okay, so mine's not.
Speaker 3 (49:29):
It's funny now looking back at it, and it probably
taught me a lesson. So Whitney and I were working
on the Levi Fredy case out of the Georgia Little
Boy who is abducted and shot, a horrible case. It
really sticks with me. I have a son named Levi,
he was around that age. It was another one that
(49:50):
we went and visited the location. He was abducted while
riding his bike home from a friend's house.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
And this is a rural area.
Speaker 3 (49:58):
There's no sidewalks or anything like that. In that particular day,
he didn't want to He didn't want to ride by
these big dogs that always barked at him. So he
took the longer way, and so we actually drove both
of the routes to see, like how much further because
get it a lay of the land, A horrific case.
It wasn't about that case, but if there was someone
(50:19):
involved that was currently in a prison system. Now he
wasn't involved, like he was a suspect or of Levi's murder,
but he was in prison for stabbing one of the
possible suspects. They had been friends and roommates for a
long time and then something happened and he ended up
stabbing him. So he's in prison. So I one day,
(50:41):
I don't I must have been bored. I decided I
wanted to write this guy in prison and see if
he would just tell me anything about.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
His ex roommate slash friend. So I write him.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
We have a po box. Obviously I'm not giving my
home address. I didn't even put my last name or
the podcast name. Literally just said I am a host
of a podcast. He writes back very quickly, which shocked
me first of all. But and it was a quick
little letter, a one pager, and it said, oh he
would love to talk. He's not going to talk about
(51:14):
anything that happened Levi Frady right then. He just wanted
to ell see who I was and see if I
would write him back.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
Okay, the first letter literally had nothing in it.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Okay, I don't write him back because now I'm freaked
out at this moment. Yeah, So he writes another letter,
and he's about to get out of prison, and this
letter was a good twelve fourteen pages long. He described
in depth his house that he is going to be
living in once he gets out. He invited me to
(51:47):
this house and that I could start a new life
with him.
Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'm telling you. He described the wood paneling in this house,
the trim, how he had this wood stove that would
be perfect. It was so creep to me.
Speaker 3 (52:01):
He did, however, in that same letter, give us some
information true or not true. I don't know how much
you could believe people, But he did say a few
things about the Levi Frady murder in that letter, so
I forward that along to the FBI. There has been
no arrest or anything since that, and that probably happened
about nine months ago. But yeah, that will be the
(52:22):
very last time that I ever write anyone in prison.
Speaker 4 (52:25):
I was gonna say, what did you.
Speaker 5 (52:26):
Put in that letter that he's inviting you to come
live with him.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
I have no clue. I thought it was very straight
to the point.
Speaker 3 (52:34):
Hey, I found your name blah blah blah, I know
your roommates with blah blah blah. Can you tell me
what you know about the Levi Frady murder? Nothing personal,
But now looking back, I'm like, Okay, I had to
do it once to get it out of my system
and now not going to do it again.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
At least you have a story to tell now, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 5 (52:55):
I've thought about doing it on a couple of different things,
but I always end up talking myself out of it
because how'm nice?
Speaker 4 (53:02):
Do I really want to start that? And because you don't.
Speaker 5 (53:05):
It's just like you said, you don't know the information,
if what they're telling you, if it's is it real
or are they just making stuff up.
Speaker 4 (53:12):
To keep you talking?
Speaker 2 (53:14):
No funny story for you from you, bro right, funny
stories that I think.
Speaker 5 (53:18):
I'm still the baby and the podcasting, so I'm not
there yet, but hopefully soon.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
Yeah, you'll have something either awkward or word sunny or
every eventual.
Speaker 4 (53:29):
Funding I do is awkward.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
So it's okay, So I guess we'll wrap this up
Thanks so much for joining me Melissa and Robert, and
I'm sure I will see both of you at podcasting
events in twenty twenty five. Melissa, I just was ready
toter for Advocacy Con last week, so I will see
you in Indianapolis at the end of March. And yeah,
see Robert at least at the True Crime Podcast Festival, So.
Speaker 2 (53:51):
Robert will be at Advocacy Con as well.
Speaker 1 (53:54):
Yeah, sure, mixture is.
Speaker 5 (53:55):
A busy year I think for podcasting events that I
actually want to.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Attend, so yeah, that makes the difference.
Speaker 3 (54:05):
But yeah, we're so excited to have you both there.
Speaker 4 (54:08):
I'm excited to be there.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Yep, excited to be there too. And I'm sure we'll
have some more funny stories to sell when we see something.
Thank you both have a good eye.
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