October 23, 2023 • 42 mins
Who is Scott Teems, the celebrated filmmaker behind award-winning films like "The Evening Sun," and the hits "Exorcist: Believer" and "Insidious: Red Door"? How did Scott grow up to create intense, thrilling, and dramatic stories that captivate audiences? Join us as we explore the life and career of this versatile creator, as we discuss his journey from a struggling youngster to an acclaimed filmmaker, responsible for creating the Peabody Award-winning Sundance TV drama "Rectify".
Scott attributes his success to the encouragement he received in the eighth grade, which launched his journey into filmmaking. His move to New York and his involvement with The Haven community of artists served as stepping stones to his career. Our conversation also takes you through Scott's collaborations with Terrence Berry and his experiences with Halloween Kills, and his exploration of the audience's fascination with violence in movies.
We delve into the realm of horror films, their power to explore evil, and Scott's unique approach to the Exorcist sequel. Scott emphasizes the importance of collaboration for creating compelling stories and shares his beliefs about the expectations one needs to set while embarking on a creative journey.
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Episode Transcript
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Allen Wolf (00:03):
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
This episode is an encore of myinterview with filmmaker Scott
Teems, who had two number onemovies in 2023.
Insidious, the Red Door and theExorcist Believer.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(00:23):
Today, we are joined byfilmmaker Scott Teems.
His projects include HalloweenKills, that he co-wrote with
David Gordon Green and DannyMcBride, and upcoming will be
the Exorcist, which he alsowrote with those same writers,
and Stephen King's Firestarter,which he adapted for the screen
(00:44):
and will executive produce.
Scott adapted Stephen King'sthe Breathing Method, which is
in development with Spy Glassfor director Gore Verbinski, and
he wrote the upcoming sequel,insidious Five.
Scott also wrote the screenplayadaption of the best-selling
novel Cutting for Stone.
(01:05):
Scott's previous credits as awriter-director include the
award-winning films that EveningSun, whole, brook Twain and,
most recently, the Quarry.
Scott was a writer andexecutive producer of the
popular Netflix series NarcosMexico, and he wrote, directed
and produced three seasons ofthe acclaimed Peabody
(01:28):
Award-winning Sundance TV dramaRectify.
Well, scott, you're soimpressive.
Welcome to the show.
Scott Teems (01:36):
Thanks, Allen, good to see you, buddy.
Allen Wolf (01:38):
Great to have you.
My first question, afterreading through all the
incredible work you've done, iswhy don't you smile in any of
your pictures?
Scott Teems (01:52):
I have to keep up the mystique.
Allen Wolf (01:55):
That's what I wanted .
I wondered if you were sittingat like a persona of like.
I am a serious person, I makeserious stories, but I looked I
really looked for pictures ofyou smiling.
I couldn't find one of them.
That's funny.
Scott Teems (02:08):
Well, oh man, I feel ashamed now, that could.
Allen Wolf (02:16):
I'm just campaigning for at least one smiling
picture of you, you and my wifeboth.
Scott Teems (02:21):
That would be a good win for all of us involved.
Allen Wolf (02:28):
That's funny.
You know, I don't have.
Scott Teems (02:30):
I don't have any lips.
It's weird, I don't know.
I don't like smiling.
Sorry, trying to keep up thatimage, oh gosh.
Allen Wolf (02:41):
Well, I yeah, I think you've got a great smile,
so hopefully we'll see more ofyour smile.
Well, the work you create isvery intense, thrilling and
dramatic.
How did you develop thosesensibilities?
Scott Teems (02:54):
I guess I was just born with a bit of a jaundice to
eye and a sort of healthy doseof pessimism, it goes along with
a non-smiling vibe.
I don't know I didn'tpurposefully develop them, I
suppose I those just always beenthe kinds of stories I've been
drawn to, and and ever since,not only as a filmmaker and
(03:19):
writer but also as a filmwatcher.
As a young person, I was justalways felt myself drawn to
those darker stories and I thinkI've spent a lot of time trying
to figure out why and uncoversome of those reasons and or as
part of the exploration of sortof some of the stuff I write
about is sort of searching forthose reasons and why I'm drawn
(03:41):
to those stories.
Allen Wolf (03:42):
Did you grow up in a very serious household?
Not serious, I mean, I comefrom.
Scott Teems (03:46):
Georgia A lot of laughter.
My dad is a very funny personand you know just lots of jokes.
I think I probably always feltlike an outsider.
I think I was trying toreconcile a lot of these
different feelings as a youngperson, like feeling like I
didn't quite fit and didn'tbelong.
Coming from the South, thereare certain sort of expectations
(04:09):
of masculinity that prevail notjust in the South, but it was
in that way where I come from.
And so for me, as a young kidwho was like there were sort of
three sort of facets of who Iwas.
I think I was this sort of jockkid like football player, like
all my friends were.
(04:29):
There was this person who washad this new faith in high
school, trying to sort of figureout what I believed about God,
if I believed about God.
And then there was this artistwho was sort of silently
blossoming over here in thedarkness and trying to figure
out how to reconcile thosethings.
They didn't all coexist verywell.
(04:50):
So I think, feeling that, thewrestling of those with those
things, with those ideas, whowas I?
Who did I want to be?
How do I become that person inthis place?
Do I have to leave this placeto become that person.
You know lots of thosequestions that tended to push me
toward more dramatic kind ofstories perhaps, and that I
(05:10):
could ask deeper, biggerquestions, I guess.
Allen Wolf (05:14):
When you were growing up, did you feel like
the artistic side of you you hadto hide?
Scott Teems (05:20):
No, I don't think it was frowned upon and in the
active way.
I just think I was interestedin stuff that other people
weren't Like.
When I was in high school I gotinto, like, european cinema
there was nobody around that Icould go see and I liked metal.
I listened to.
I mean listened to earth, Ilistened to, like I listened to
(05:41):
heavy doom.
Metal I listened to.
I was always like listening.
I just also beaten path a littlebit from mother folk, but I
also, you know, love people andI had lots of friends and I was
very fortunate to grow up in areally just a warm environment
with people I liked to be around.
So you know, it wasn't like I'mnot suggesting that I was like
(06:02):
some kid who had no place.
It was more like the personinside of me was trying to
figure out who they were andversus the person I was as a
child, I mean I'm still tryingto find out who I am.
You know, it's not like I'm inmy 40s and it's still I mean
hopefully we're all growing andevolving, not settling for who
(06:23):
we are, and that's certainlywhat I'm trying to do.
Allen Wolf (06:25):
Well, something I really appreciate about your
work is its level ofauthenticity.
I remember watching rectify andmarveling about the realness
and depth of the story andcharacters.
What was your experience likewriting, directing and producing
that series?
Scott Teems (06:42):
I mean it was really probably the most
fulfilling creative experienceI've had I in part because it
was the most collaborative.
There were four seasons of thatshow.
I worked on the last three.
It was created by a guy namedRay McKinnon who I had, who was
in my first film.
So I directed Ray in thatevening some of my first movie.
He also produced that movie, sohe got very close and then he
(07:07):
asked me to come work on hisshow a few years later.
It was like a family in thebest ways a lot of honesty and
just a freedom to really expressyourself, to push for things,
to fight for things, to tell thebest story because we all
believed so deeply in the storywe were telling.
We all believed in Ray's visionso much and he empowered us to
(07:30):
bring ourselves to that story.
It just made you passionate forit.
And it was doubly so for mebecause the story was set in
Georgia.
It was about people and placesthat I knew.
Ray is from Georgia, so we hadthat extra level of connection.
I had that extra level ofconnection to the material which
made me that much morepassionate about it, which I
(07:52):
think is a huge reason why youfelt that authenticity in that
show, because we were people wholived that and knew that world
and those characters.
It was my first time working intelevision, so to have the
space and the time to exploredeeper character over a period
of that show was 30 episodes, Ithink, in total, and so having
(08:14):
that long period of time toreally it's more like a long
novel, you know really beingable that's the beauty of
television to tell long formstories and dig deeper.
Not every single moment, everysingle beat has to advance the
plot or the story, as it has tousually in feature films.
So it was just a real you.
Just you're able to have somuch more nuance and subtlety
(08:39):
when you're doing that kind oflong-form storytelling.
Allen Wolf (08:41):
How did you first get started in storytelling?
Scott Teems (08:44):
I always wanted to make movies.
As long as I can remember, youknow, I was always the kid who
had the camera my dad he wouldhave.
He was always like what wewould call now an early adopter.
It was not like a phrase backwhen we were growing up but like
we had the first video cameraon my block.
We had the first VCR, you know,and we had this like black and
white video camera we boughtlike in 1980.
(09:07):
That was attached to the,literally attached to the VCR,
but like the thing on my dad ishe would never then update the
stuff.
So we had that same camera whenI graduated from high school 15
years later.
But we I had a camera in myhands from a very early age, a
video camera, super eight,whatever, and so I started
making movies in middle school.
(09:30):
I had a teacher in the eighthgrade who really encouraged me
and let me make little movies inlieu of book reports, and so I
made these little movies ineighth grade.
All through eighth grade I madelike we were doing, like Greek
mythology, and I did this storyon Hercules little movie, but I
made it about his two littlebrothers and it's called
(09:51):
Mercules and Jercules, the twolittle brothers I mean.
Allen Wolf (09:55):
So A classic.
Scott Teems (09:56):
Classic and so.
I did that and we just madethese little movies and but she
really encouraged me and kind ofgave me that permission to sort
of try that out and explorethat sort of part of who I was
becoming as an artist and who Iwanted to be as an artist.
And it went on from there, andso I went to film school.
Allen Wolf (10:16):
Where did you go to film school?
Scott Teems (10:17):
I went to Georgia State University in Atlanta.
The whole time I was in collegeit was in Atlanta.
It was like Atlanta's the nextplace Atlanta's the next place
for film.
We're all like, yeah, whatever,it's not gonna happen.
It's not gonna happen and Igraduated and it didn't happen.
So I moved to New York and, ofcourse, moved to New York and,
like, a year later, georgia filmexplodes.
(10:38):
That's okay, cause I'm glad itwasn't happening because I might
have been influenced to stayand I think the best thing I
ever did was to move away.
And why is that?
Because it made me get out ofmy comfort zone.
It made me have to reallydecide that this was what I was
going to do.
Because moving to New York,especially where the cost of
(11:01):
living is so high and I'm thereevery day and money's just
burning a hole in my pocket Iwas newly married, I got married
, got out of college.
Every day you're there.
It matters because money's justgoing out the door.
And there's no time to screwaround, and so I think for me,
if I had been in the comfortzone of my home town, I would
(11:23):
have.
There's the tendency to fallback on the backup plan to like
well, I can still work my joband do this on the weekends or
whenever I have time, and I knowmyself and I need to put my
feet to the fire and I think,knowing that I had a wife to
provide for and a couple ofyears later we had our first
child and so growing a familynot wanting to be impeded by
(11:46):
living in New York, wanting tolike we wanted to have a family
so we were going to do it.
But that just creates, obviously, a higher cost of living, more
pressure, but it was goodpressure because I had to really
ask myself why I wanted to dothis.
Is this really my passion,enough to pursue it?
Do I have the talent?
I had to be really honest withmyself.
All these questions that youmust ask that I think you ask a
(12:11):
lot quicker when you are paying$4,000 a month in rent and
you're working making $10 anhour selling shoes in Long
Island City, which is what I wasdoing at the time.
I just felt like it reallyhelped me focus and it really
helped me not waste time and Ithink I progressed a little
(12:33):
quicker probably than I wouldhave if I just stuck around
Atlanta.
Allen Wolf (12:38):
So did that experience in New York then lead
you to developing that EveningSun as your first feature film.
Scott Teems (12:44):
Indirectly.
So I moved to New York and Igot a job and there was a
community of artists therecalled the Haven that I got
involved in pretty soon afterlanding there.
This was artist of all types.
I mean New York's great becausethere's actors and singers and
dancers and writers andplaywrights, screenwriters, all
(13:05):
kinds, and so we have thiscommunity of artists.
We're supporting each other,meeting together regularly, all
in our 20s, mostly young folk,you know, just trying to pursue
their dreams, and so that was agreat community.
Through that I met a guy namedTerrence Berry who ended up
producing all my short films andthen he produced that Evening
(13:26):
Sun.
And Terrence also funded me togo to Act One.
He helped me.
I couldn't even afford to takethis screenwriting class called
Act One, which is what's seminalfor me.
I took it in 2001 in New Yorkand it was a huge, huge deal for
me and I made a lot of people,made a lot of connections that
(13:48):
all were building on top of eachother.
But Terrence, I couldn't, like Isaid, I was paying 10 bucks,
making 10 bucks an hour sellingshoes, and I couldn't afford the
tuition to go to this summerprogram.
And Terrence, to his greatcredit, and I always thank him
for this put the money up for meto go.
He believed in me but his moneywas in my office.
He said I want to be a producer, I want to produce your work.
(14:10):
I'm going to send you to thisthing.
And he did.
And that was the beginning ofour partnership and we made a
few films together and then Iwrote a bunch of bad scripts.
I was in New York for about fiveyears.
We wrote a bunch of bad scripts, made a lot of short films Each
one a little less bad than theone before it, and played some
festivals and that kind of stuffand kind of got my sea legs
(14:32):
sort of and doing making moviesand writing and sort of figuring
it out, and moved to LosAngeles in 2005.
And the first thing I wrotewhen I got here was that evening
sun and then that took aboutthree years to get it made.
But Terrence was a huge part ofthat and having that New York
community was a huge part ofthat.
And those people are still myfriends today and a lot of them
(14:53):
live here in Los Angeles.
It's just been the through line.
Having that community has beensuch an important part of my
story and my journey.
For me and my wife and ourfamily it's been imperative.
I saw some of those guys just acouple of days ago and we see
each other regularly and it'sinvaluable.
Allen Wolf (15:12):
And how would you say, looking back, that that
experience making the eveningsun shaped you as a filmmaker?
Scott Teems (15:19):
It's the first movie you make, your first
feature.
It's seminal in so many waysand it set the table for
everything that was to come.
But just as a but personally,it really just affirmed this
hope that I had had that thekinds of stories I wanted to
tell, which to a large degreeremained small southern stories
about men and violence and Godand how those things intersect
(15:42):
and collide and explode together, that those kinds of stories
could connect to people.
That evening sun, it didn't makeany money, but it won some
awards, it got me representation, it built a ton of bridges for
my career, which was great.
But more than that, itconnected with people.
(16:02):
And it didn't connect with 100million people, but it connected
with people when they saw it,when they had a chance to see it
, and that's why I want to tellstories.
There's great value in escapismand those things have a place
in the world for sure.
It's just not what I want to do, despite my resume how you
(16:24):
might perceive my resume,especially writing studio movies
and we can talk about that, butI don't see them that way.
Allen Wolf (16:32):
Well, your newest film is Halloween Kills.
What was it like continuing thestory of the serial killer Mike
Myers?
Scott Teems (16:41):
It was a thrill to work on a franchise.
That was my first sort offranchise movie and that was fun
.
For me.
It was more fun to work with myold friend, David Gordon Green.
That was the first time we'dhad a chance to work together.
We've been friends for a longtime.
He was a real early supporter.
David is a kind of guy who justreally helps his friends and
(17:04):
helps people that he believes in.
David was a real big advocatefor that evening's son.
In fact he emailed Roger Ebertand asked him and told him about
the movie and told him to watchit and reviewed it, which is
one of the kind of great thrillsof my early career.
So David's always just been afriend and a fan and a supporter
(17:25):
.
So this is the first time wehad a chance to work together,
which was a ton of fun.
It was also great to work withBlumhouse again, who I've done
several projects with.
This is our first released filmand those guys are fantastic.
So it was just fun to work withmy friends on that movie.
And when you get to make a big,scary blockbuster movie it's a
(17:47):
different kind of thrill andsort of scratches that itch that
you have as a kid when you wantto make movies.
Allen Wolf (17:52):
And the review of the film Variety wrote, quote
never was there a film truer toits name.
They've sliced up with kitchenknives, hollowed out with a
fluorescent strip light,bisected with a chainsaw and
impaled on banisters.
The body count is phenomenal.
We love this stuff, you know wedo.
(18:12):
Unquote.
Why do you think audiences loveto see that kind of violence?
Scott Teems (18:20):
I mean that review is a little over the top.
I would well.
I would start by saying I'm notentirely convinced this is a
healthy love In fact, often it'snot.
And what interests me is reallytrying to scrutinize that
fascination with violencethrough the acts of violence
(18:40):
themselves and in some instances, like a Halloween, kills me, to
understand our complicity asmembers of the audience in that
violence.
That's something we're reallyinterrogating about in Halloween
kills, I mean that's literallywhat the film is about.
It's about mob violence and herdmentality and the sort of
(19:03):
disastrous ramifications thereof.
And now, look, is it lofty forme to sit here and say Halloween
kills is about like, has allthese big ideas?
Maybe, but if you're not tryingto say something, then why the
hell are we?
Are we doing any of it?
Like, I'm not?
I'm not interested in justkilling people.
(19:24):
For me this stuff meanssomething.
It's not violence for violencesake.
Now look at the end of the day,I don't direct the movie and I
don't I can write it.
I can try to give some sort ofsubstance to what's happening.
Ultimately, it lives its ownlife.
The director makes his choices,her choices, and the audience
(19:44):
has their own interpretation ofthat.
And people are going to chooseto see what they want to see but
.
I certainly am at least tryingto talk about something a little
bit deeper inside of this shell.
I mean, that's the beauty ofworking on a big movie that's
going to reach 100 millionpeople, or whatever it is.
You have a big much biggerplatform to say things and a
(20:07):
much bigger responsibility.
Sure, I'm trying to ride thatline and find that balance.
You can be a lot more directand subtle in nuance when you're
making the quarry of thatevening sun, because you know
there's much, much, much smallerbudgets, but you also have a
much, much smaller audience, andso there's a tradeoff.
You know you have to be a littlemore blunt, maybe a little less
(20:28):
overt over here for the biggeraudience.
But you're saying something andit's all about threading the
needle and finding a way to havea point of view.
A point of view is all I careabout and I want to see.
I don't care if I agree ordisagree.
I want you to have a point ofview.
I'm interested in that, in yourperspective on things.
As a storyteller, if you'retelling, if I'm watching your
(20:48):
movie, I want to know what youthink about this.
I don't want some neutralposition.
I want to express something andI'm interested in that.
So, I'm just trying to do thesame thing.
Allen Wolf (20:59):
No, no, no, no.
The juke is tocue Again.
Give it a shot.
Scott Teems (21:08):
Get in bed, you have to revoke your phone call.
Is those extra data availablein this world?
Author David Irons said thatthe high profile and things that
attract your failure and afair隶ity in your life are very
Wheeler and I think at leastplaying you, you can add to the
fore disruptive data and findwith your philosophy when it's
got so much snarky, it's a verysnarky review, which is totally
fine.
(21:28):
I mean it's fine.
I'm not here to criticize thecritics when you sign up to
write a franchise sequel.
I mean I'm writing InsidiousFive, I'm writing the Exorcist.
I've Wrote Halloween Kills.
You know that comes with theterritory.
People love to like just shootbullets at the thing.
(21:49):
That's been around for a longtime and that's totally fine.
I don't mind that.
But, like I say, I believethere's something deeper
happening in Halloween Kills andsome people will be willing to
take a deeper look into what thefilm is saying and some people
won't, and that's okay.
I wrote it for the people thatwill.
That's what happens with art.
I mean, like it's people aregonna misinterpret it.
(22:11):
I would say that's amisinterpretation, but that's
okay.
That's their interpretation ofit and hopefully there is room
for interpretation.
If it's too didactic, then it'swhat's the point.
It's like an out of pamphlet.
Art, hopefully, is more subtleand nuanced and it's about the
whole experience and thereforeit's open to an array of
(22:33):
interpretations.
I try so hard not to say somepeople are gonna get it and some
people aren't.
I don't like that languageCause maybe there's nothing to
get.
Allen Wolf (22:40):
Maybe I'm fooling myself.
Scott Teems (22:41):
Maybe it's all maybe it's what does he say
Unclouded by conscience ordelusions of morality?
Allen Wolf (22:48):
I mean, come on, Maybe that's maybe that is,
maybe that's what it is.
It's hard because when you hearthe bad stuff, like that's the
stuff that kind of stays withyou and the great stuff tend to
be like oh yeah, and find reasonto dismiss that.
So I apologize for not readingthe wonderful things that people
are writing about.
Halloween kills.
Scott Teems (23:09):
No, it's good.
I like to interrogate thisstuff.
I think it's interesting when Idid read those reviews.
There seems to be anunwillingness to engage the
movie and anything other thanthe surface level, which is fine
, as to be expected, buthopefully audiences will and
we'll see something underneath.
Allen Wolf (23:25):
Well, you mentioned when you're growing up that you
experienced a faith journey.
Can you describe what yourspiritual journey has looked
like?
Scott Teems (23:34):
Yeah, I grew up in the church.
You know, when you're from theSouth it sort of comes, at least
in the 80s, when you grew up inthe 80s it sort of, and before
that obviously it comes with theterritory.
Allen Wolf (23:45):
That you're just expected to go to church on
Sunday.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's acultural expectation.
Scott Teems (23:50):
And then in the 90s , as I got into high school,
that expectation began to shift,you know, and I think there was
a change really, where thatexpectation went away, that
obligation went away.
People stopped going to church.
My family sort of stopped goingto church because there wasn't
a judgment anymore in thecommunity if you didn't go.
But then I started going tothis group called Young Life
(24:16):
that I found through my highschool, my friends there and
that's where I sort of had anencounter with.
Allen Wolf (24:24):
Jesus and what does that mean?
To have an encounter with Jesus?
Scott Teems (24:27):
Hey, I was introduced to this idea that a
guy was a personal God, wasavailable to people to have a
relationship with.
This is an idea that I hadn'treally ever had before, even
though I had grown up in church,hadn't heard it in that way, so
I started wrestling with that.
Then just had some encountersand some personal spiritual
(24:48):
experiences that just confirmedto me there was something bigger
happening, some things that Iknow to be true in my own life,
and then began to see the Biblein a different way, began to
read it in a different way, andthat is how I connected with
Jesus.
Allen Wolf (25:03):
Mike Flanagan, who's directed many horror films and
TV shows, such as the Hauntingof Hill House, said recently,
quote horror affords us theopportunity to really look at
ourselves and the things thatscare us, that disturb us as a
society and individuals.
It's incredibly powerfulunquote.
Do you agree?
Scott Teems (25:25):
For sure.
I mean, I was never a bighorror fan growing up and not
even as.
I became a young writer, I wastalking to Scott Derrickson.
He was sort of explaining hisphilosophy on horror.
He had made some horror moviesat that point, this was probably
15 years ago, and he was just.
He was saying how horror is theone genre that treats evil as a
(25:47):
real thing and that naturallyopens up so many opportunities
for spiritual exploration andconversation.
And that's why he was attractedto horror and that provoked me
to look at it in a new way.
And it was not long after thatthat I began to pursue my first
(26:09):
horror project.
And so and I found that to betrue Evil can be treated as a
real entity and therefore dealtwith in a serious way.
That can provide a lot ofinteresting opportunities.
I mean, I think that's whatHalloween ultimately is about.
Allen Wolf (26:25):
I find it refreshing when movies don't psychologize
evil away, when they don't tryto say evil is something only
caused by circumstances.
In the ring, which was a remakeof the Japanese film Ringu and
directed by Gore of Rubenski,who you're not working with the
main character thinks the girlis doing evil things because she
had a terrible childhood.
But I love the twist when sherealizes the girl is doing it
(26:49):
because she's evil.
And you know, with yourspiritual perspective, do you
feel like that gives you adifferent point of view on the
issue of evil when you approachthese projects?
Scott Teems (27:02):
I hope so.
I mean, I think another filmthat does a similar thing is
Silence of the Lambs, whereultimately, the viewer is forced
to reconcile the fact thatHannibal Lecter is just evil.
The trick is, as a person offaith, trying to navigate these
waters.
Is Hannibal Lecter evil or isthere evil inside of them?
(27:23):
Can Hannibal Lecter be redeemedin the grand sense of the word
and the Christian sense of theword?
These are the questions.
That's what the quarry isultimately about.
I mean, it's really about thisguy who murdered people, who, at
the end of the movie, is askingfor forgiveness.
Does he deserve it?
And that's really what the notspoiler alert if you haven't
(27:45):
seen it, but I mean, that's whatthe movie is about and you have
to wrestle with that question.
And of course, there can beobviously the psychological
damage that comes from abuse isa real thing and that can cause
people to do terrible things.
But also evil exists in theworld.
Allen Wolf (28:05):
I believe that and that's also a.
Thing.
Scott Teems (28:07):
And you can let it in and you can nourish it in
other ways and you can notdefend yourself against it or
whatever.
I just love wrestling with thequestions and I like that.
The ring does that and Lambsdoes that.
I'm trying to do it too, in myown little way.
Allen Wolf (28:24):
How have you used your background to approach the
upcoming sequel to the Exorcist?
Scott Teems (28:28):
You know it's early days still with that, but I
think it's just exciting to havea platform to explore these
ideas in a more overt way.
I think that's what'sinteresting, and to have
collaborators who are open tothese ideas.
I mean, I think one reasonthey're like having me around is
because I do share a certainperspective and I have a faith
(28:50):
and that's a big part of my life, and that it's not for everyone
on that team and so you know Ican add a different perspective.
I mean, that's really how thebest ideas are made Rectify.
Rectify often gets quoted asbeing one of the great
portrayals of a Christiancharacter on television, which
it was fascinating.
(29:11):
This character Tawny, and Ithink the reason is because
she's not a caricature, she's asort of warts and all
representation of a person, afull human, and the reason that
she was able to be created as afull human In large part because
of Ray.
She was Ray's creation but aswe moved her and progressed her
(29:32):
through those four seasons, thelast three years, that writer's
room was made up.
There were five of us,including our assistant who
worked with us a lot, and inthat room, the five of us, you
had a Protestant, me, you had asort of lapsed Catholic, you had
a non-practicing Jew, you had asecular humanist and you had a
(29:53):
stone-cold atheist, and the fiveof us wrote this show together,
and so what happens?
Allen Wolf (29:59):
is you.
Scott Teems (29:59):
Everything has to pass the sniff test.
Everything, nothing, nopropaganda gets through.
It has to be honest and truthfuland if it's truthful, it will
make its way through thatgauntlet of people, all
different perspectives, and so,for that character, anything
(30:20):
that I wrote or anyone elsewrote that smelled like
propaganda, it wouldn't make itthrough.
What you end up with is arefined sort of version of a
real person, a real character.
You need to be tested, you needto put your ideas in the world
and have people push back onthem.
That's collaboration, that is,that's truth-seeking as honesty,
(30:43):
that's a humility to be wrong.
And if God is real, if Jesus isreal, if these ideas are true,
then there's no harm and no sofear in putting them out in the
world and letting, letting themlive, because if they're real
then they will survive.
If they're true, you know, Idon't have to protect them.
(31:04):
If God is real, I don't have toprotect him.
He will be real.
There's power in that, I think,freedom in that, freedom as a
writer to explore all thequestions, all the concerns, all
the anxieties that come alongwith living in the world.
Man, it's hard to live in theworld.
It's hard.
It's hard to make movies, it'shard to tell stories, hard to
(31:24):
live in the world and Not get,not come away with a bunch of
bumps and bruises.
But if you have a faith andthen you don't have to try to
protect or deny that you knowand it can, you can pour out
through your work and your artand I think the more honest art
Makes for a better world.
Allen Wolf (31:44):
That's just my opinion, I assume the new fire
starter film stars DrewBarrymore.
She's an adult.
She's still setting everythingon fire.
Is that it?
Scott Teems (31:54):
I pitched that but nobody went for it.
No, it's not, it's a retellingof the story.
What's what's cool about thatis I've done a couple of King
adaptations.
What I liked about theopportunity to do fire starter
was that we already have theoriginal movie, which is pretty
(32:17):
Pretty by the book literally bythe book adaptation.
It follows the book prettyclosely and so that's already
there.
That exists, and so I hadfreedom to explore.
You know a sort of another wayto take to tell that story.
It's the same story essentially, but it's just you know another
way in.
We don't need the same thing wealready saw.
(32:39):
I'm trying to create a newperspective.
Yeah, I'm excited that movieshot this past summer and so it
will come out next year sometimeand it's very exciting now,
when you're adopting somethingfor Stephen King, do you work
directly with him?
No, in part it's because he'sgot any at any point 30 to 40
projects in development, I meanlike, and he's writing his own
(33:00):
stuff still, it's just, it getsincredible.
But you know, king has thiswonderful, amazing thing he does
where he will let people optionhis stories for a dollar and If
the stories are available andthere's very few stories
available, but ten years agothere were a few more and I got
I had.
I option one, that's how I sortof broke through, ultimately to
kind of start a career runningmore commercial movies, as I
(33:24):
optioned the breathing methodMyself for a dollar from Stephen
King Through his agents.
It comes with this Contract,which is really intense and but
the the core of it is basicallyyou have six months from the
time they give you the contractto deliver a script to Stephen
King, who then has Scriptapproval, and so I, and if he
(33:47):
approves the script, you keepgoing, if he doesn't, you're
done and you've wasted a dollarin six months Of your life.
Allen Wolf (33:53):
So this is true of any, even studio, films.
He's he's optioning them for adollar.
Scott Teems (33:57):
Yep, you can.
Yeah, he will, because he getspaid when it gets made.
So he can afford to do that.
Like I've optioned severalstories and if I'm negotiating
for a short story like thatevening sun or a novel like the
quarry, I'm optioning thesethings that might pay two grand
or five grand or twelve hundreddollars or whatever To get to
lease the rights for a year totry to make the movie and then
(34:20):
you got to pay for it when youfinally make it.
Well, king doesn't need yourtwo thousand dollars, right?
So he just says have it for adollar, try it out, see if you
can get it made, see if you canwrite a good script, and when
you do, then he gets paid on theother side of it.
Allen Wolf (34:35):
So he makes his money when it's made or he gets
a gross or whatever.
Scott Teems (34:39):
So it's a fantastic system because it lets young
writers like me he's my option.
He reads the script, he saysyes or no and then you go on and
that's it.
I've had very littleinteraction with him, but he so
far as liked what I've done withhis stuff and he's approved
everything.
Allen Wolf (34:55):
So we'll see.
How do you stay spirituallyhealthy in Hollywood.
Scott Teems (35:00):
I don't think it's any different in Hollywood than
anywhere else really.
I mean requires discipline andcommitment and focus and it just
has to be a priority.
For me, it really is aboutgrounding.
It's about grounding and myfaith, grounding in my family
and which keeps you humble.
(35:22):
I mean like, and you have kids,you know kids will make you
humble real fast.
They don't care what movie youmade or whatever.
Allen Wolf (35:30):
Was there a moment during your career when you felt
discouraged and wondered whatyour next project would be?
Scott Teems (35:37):
What time is it?
Allen Wolf (35:39):
Yes, every day, every day that's what you know,
that's what faith is.
I mean, that's what I think,that's.
Scott Teems (35:49):
You just keep climbing that hill.
Best advice I ever got when I,when I took act one and these
two writers, kristen Kathy Rileygreat writers.
They came to teach us one dayand they said look, every one of
our friends we know who havemade it.
By making it, they meant simplythat they make their living as
a writer.
They don't have to have anotherjob.
For all of our friends who dothat, it's taking them on
(36:09):
average about ten years, and Ihad come to New York that about
six months earlier With thedelusion that it would take me
about two years to figure out ifthis was gonna happen or not.
And I was newly married and wesaid let's go up there and give
it a couple of years.
It didn't work out, We'll goback and we'll see.
We got to go try, and so thatidea of ten years was like the
(36:33):
scales fell from my eyes and Iwas a whole perspective shift
and I was able to come home andtalk to my wife and say, look, I
think it's actually going to bemore like 10 years.
Are we prepared for thatjourney?
Are we together, prepared forthat?
I think a lot of the strugglesyou and I have both seen
(36:56):
marriages fail, friends leave,things fall apart for people and
I think a large part of that isbecause of expectations.
You think it's going to be onething but it's really going to
be something else and thereforeyour expectations are unmet.
That's where problems start inabout two years.
Then the person's like what'sgoing on?
When are you going to give upyour silly dream and move on
(37:17):
with whatever?
So I was able to go home andsay, OK, how about it's more
like 10 years?
Are we down for this?
And we were like, yeah, let'skeep going.
So seven years later, I madethat evening sun, but that was
an indie film.
It made it for a milliondollars and I worked on it for
five years.
I made a sum total of $20,000in that film.
(37:40):
$20,000 will last you fiveweeks in Los Angeles as you know
, so it's not like I was livingon that money.
So even though that movie got mean agent and it got me all that
stuff and it won awards, it wasjust a little indie film.
So you couldn't take that filmand then parlay that into
writing some big movie, becauseit just wasn't that, it was
(38:03):
about an old guy on a farm.
So, cut to, two years later I'mdead broke, haven't done
another thing yet, can't getanything off the ground and I'm
desperate.
I have at that point I havethree young kids at home and I'm
broke, I'm getting veryhopeless.
And so I called a friend who Iknew produced reality television
(38:26):
and I said I got to have a job,I need something.
And he gave me this job verygraciously and they sent me down
to West Texas to direct areality TV show and it was a
really really, really, reallyhard, hard, hard experience for
(38:46):
me.
I didn't like what we weredoing.
I was alone in West Texas forthe summer and people there.
It was tough, it was reallytough.
So, and I got really despondentthere and thought this is
probably it.
(39:07):
You put a camera in front ofsomeone who knows they're
supposed to be entertaining onit.
It's like pouring gasoline on afire and then they wanted more
gasoline on that fire to dothese outrageous things that I
found sort of reprehensible.
And I found myself being askedto direct this stuff.
So I spent a lot of time Iprayed about it.
(39:27):
I talked to my wife about it.
I was really torn about it andI said I can't do this.
But yet we had all these billsto pay and we said look, we're
going to have faith, we're goingto trust that something better
will come out of this if youreally can't do it.
I don't want to put bad stuffinto the world.
I don't want to make the worlda worse place by the stuff I put
(39:48):
into it.
And I was so grateful to myfriend and I didn't want to let
him down.
He had gone out on a limb togive me a break.
I felt terrible about that.
I was going to say I don'tbelieve in what you're doing
here.
It was really hard and I cameback home and I left that job
early.
I got home and about a monthlater I got my first studio gig
(40:09):
writing a job.
It came out of that, and thatwas the fall of 2011, which was
exactly 10 years after I tookAct 1.
And I haven't stopped workingsince.
Wow, the 10 year rule is thetakeaway from that.
Unmet expectations is reallyimportant.
(40:32):
Properly calibratedexpectations, I think, are the
key to life in general, butespecially to our relationship.
Allen Wolf (40:40):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
I?
Scott Teems (40:46):
want to be known that I was an honest person,
that I had integrity, that I waskind and then I put something
of value into the world.
So that's really if I can dothat, if I can get one of those
things that'll be a success.
I'm aiming for all of them.
We'll see how it goes.
Allen Wolf (41:07):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forbeing my guest, scott.
I really appreciate hearingabout your journey and your work
.
It's a filmmaker.
Thank you for just being soopen about your life.
If you work in entertainment,be sure to check out the
complimentary courses and otherresources available at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
There are courses forpre-marriage and marriage and
(41:31):
the Alpha Hollywood course,which gives entertainment
professionals the chance toexplore faith while building
community.
You can find out more atnavigatinghollywoodorg.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
(41:52):
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
This episode is an encore of myinterview with filmmaker Scott
Teems, who had two number onemovies in 2023.
Insidious, the Red Door and theExorcist Believer.
I hope you enjoy the show.
(00:23):
Today, we are joined byfilmmaker Scott Teems.
His projects include HalloweenKills, that he co-wrote with
David Gordon Green and DannyMcBride, and upcoming will be
the Exorcist, which he alsowrote with those same writers,
and Stephen King's Firestarter,which he adapted for the screen
(00:44):
and will executive produce.
Scott adapted Stephen King'sthe Breathing Method, which is
in development with Spy Glassfor director Gore Verbinski, and
he wrote the upcoming sequel,insidious Five.
Scott also wrote the screenplayadaption of the best-selling
novel Cutting for Stone.
(01:05):
Scott's previous credits as awriter-director include the
award-winning films that EveningSun, whole, brook Twain and,
most recently, the Quarry.
Scott was a writer andexecutive producer of the
popular Netflix series NarcosMexico, and he wrote, directed
and produced three seasons ofthe acclaimed Peabody
(01:28):
Award-winning Sundance TV dramaRectify.
Well, scott, you're soimpressive.
Welcome to the show.
Scott Teems (01:36):
Thanks, Allen, good to see you, buddy.
Allen Wolf (01:38):
Great to have you.
My first question, afterreading through all the
incredible work you've done, iswhy don't you smile in any of
your pictures?
Scott Teems (01:52):
I have to keep up the mystique.
Allen Wolf (01:55):
That's what I wanted .
I wondered if you were sittingat like a persona of like.
I am a serious person, I makeserious stories, but I looked I
really looked for pictures ofyou smiling.
I couldn't find one of them.
That's funny.
Scott Teems (02:08):
Well, oh man, I feel ashamed now, that could.
Allen Wolf (02:16):
I'm just campaigning for at least one smiling
picture of you, you and my wifeboth.
Scott Teems (02:21):
That would be a good win for all of us involved.
Allen Wolf (02:28):
That's funny.
You know, I don't have.
Scott Teems (02:30):
I don't have any lips.
It's weird, I don't know.
I don't like smiling.
Sorry, trying to keep up thatimage, oh gosh.
Allen Wolf (02:41):
Well, I yeah, I think you've got a great smile,
so hopefully we'll see more ofyour smile.
Well, the work you create isvery intense, thrilling and
dramatic.
How did you develop thosesensibilities?
Scott Teems (02:54):
I guess I was just born with a bit of a jaundice to
eye and a sort of healthy doseof pessimism, it goes along with
a non-smiling vibe.
I don't know I didn'tpurposefully develop them, I
suppose I those just always beenthe kinds of stories I've been
drawn to, and and ever since,not only as a filmmaker and
(03:19):
writer but also as a filmwatcher.
As a young person, I was justalways felt myself drawn to
those darker stories and I thinkI've spent a lot of time trying
to figure out why and uncoversome of those reasons and or as
part of the exploration of sortof some of the stuff I write
about is sort of searching forthose reasons and why I'm drawn
(03:41):
to those stories.
Allen Wolf (03:42):
Did you grow up in a very serious household?
Not serious, I mean, I comefrom.
Scott Teems (03:46):
Georgia A lot of laughter.
My dad is a very funny personand you know just lots of jokes.
I think I probably always feltlike an outsider.
I think I was trying toreconcile a lot of these
different feelings as a youngperson, like feeling like I
didn't quite fit and didn'tbelong.
Coming from the South, thereare certain sort of expectations
(04:09):
of masculinity that prevail notjust in the South, but it was
in that way where I come from.
And so for me, as a young kidwho was like there were sort of
three sort of facets of who Iwas.
I think I was this sort of jockkid like football player, like
all my friends were.
(04:29):
There was this person who washad this new faith in high
school, trying to sort of figureout what I believed about God,
if I believed about God.
And then there was this artistwho was sort of silently
blossoming over here in thedarkness and trying to figure
out how to reconcile thosethings.
They didn't all coexist verywell.
(04:50):
So I think, feeling that, thewrestling of those with those
things, with those ideas, whowas I?
Who did I want to be?
How do I become that person inthis place?
Do I have to leave this placeto become that person.
You know lots of thosequestions that tended to push me
toward more dramatic kind ofstories perhaps, and that I
(05:10):
could ask deeper, biggerquestions, I guess.
Allen Wolf (05:14):
When you were growing up, did you feel like
the artistic side of you you hadto hide?
Scott Teems (05:20):
No, I don't think it was frowned upon and in the
active way.
I just think I was interestedin stuff that other people
weren't Like.
When I was in high school I gotinto, like, european cinema
there was nobody around that Icould go see and I liked metal.
I listened to.
I mean listened to earth, Ilistened to, like I listened to
(05:41):
heavy doom.
Metal I listened to.
I was always like listening.
I just also beaten path a littlebit from mother folk, but I
also, you know, love people andI had lots of friends and I was
very fortunate to grow up in areally just a warm environment
with people I liked to be around.
So you know, it wasn't like I'mnot suggesting that I was like
(06:02):
some kid who had no place.
It was more like the personinside of me was trying to
figure out who they were andversus the person I was as a
child, I mean I'm still tryingto find out who I am.
You know, it's not like I'm inmy 40s and it's still I mean
hopefully we're all growing andevolving, not settling for who
(06:23):
we are, and that's certainlywhat I'm trying to do.
Allen Wolf (06:25):
Well, something I really appreciate about your
work is its level ofauthenticity.
I remember watching rectify andmarveling about the realness
and depth of the story andcharacters.
What was your experience likewriting, directing and producing
that series?
Scott Teems (06:42):
I mean it was really probably the most
fulfilling creative experienceI've had I in part because it
was the most collaborative.
There were four seasons of thatshow.
I worked on the last three.
It was created by a guy namedRay McKinnon who I had, who was
in my first film.
So I directed Ray in thatevening some of my first movie.
He also produced that movie, sohe got very close and then he
(07:07):
asked me to come work on hisshow a few years later.
It was like a family in thebest ways a lot of honesty and
just a freedom to really expressyourself, to push for things,
to fight for things, to tell thebest story because we all
believed so deeply in the storywe were telling.
We all believed in Ray's visionso much and he empowered us to
(07:30):
bring ourselves to that story.
It just made you passionate forit.
And it was doubly so for mebecause the story was set in
Georgia.
It was about people and placesthat I knew.
Ray is from Georgia, so we hadthat extra level of connection.
I had that extra level ofconnection to the material which
made me that much morepassionate about it, which I
(07:52):
think is a huge reason why youfelt that authenticity in that
show, because we were people wholived that and knew that world
and those characters.
It was my first time working intelevision, so to have the
space and the time to exploredeeper character over a period
of that show was 30 episodes, Ithink, in total, and so having
(08:14):
that long period of time toreally it's more like a long
novel, you know really beingable that's the beauty of
television to tell long formstories and dig deeper.
Not every single moment, everysingle beat has to advance the
plot or the story, as it has tousually in feature films.
So it was just a real you.
Just you're able to have somuch more nuance and subtlety
(08:39):
when you're doing that kind oflong-form storytelling.
Allen Wolf (08:41):
How did you first get started in storytelling?
Scott Teems (08:44):
I always wanted to make movies.
As long as I can remember, youknow, I was always the kid who
had the camera my dad he wouldhave.
He was always like what wewould call now an early adopter.
It was not like a phrase backwhen we were growing up but like
we had the first video cameraon my block.
We had the first VCR, you know,and we had this like black and
white video camera we boughtlike in 1980.
(09:07):
That was attached to the,literally attached to the VCR,
but like the thing on my dad ishe would never then update the
stuff.
So we had that same camera whenI graduated from high school 15
years later.
But we I had a camera in myhands from a very early age, a
video camera, super eight,whatever, and so I started
making movies in middle school.
(09:30):
I had a teacher in the eighthgrade who really encouraged me
and let me make little movies inlieu of book reports, and so I
made these little movies ineighth grade.
All through eighth grade I madelike we were doing, like Greek
mythology, and I did this storyon Hercules little movie, but I
made it about his two littlebrothers and it's called
(09:51):
Mercules and Jercules, the twolittle brothers I mean.
Allen Wolf (09:55):
So A classic.
Scott Teems (09:56):
Classic and so.
I did that and we just madethese little movies and but she
really encouraged me and kind ofgave me that permission to sort
of try that out and explorethat sort of part of who I was
becoming as an artist and who Iwanted to be as an artist.
And it went on from there, andso I went to film school.
Allen Wolf (10:16):
Where did you go to film school?
Scott Teems (10:17):
I went to Georgia State University in Atlanta.
The whole time I was in collegeit was in Atlanta.
It was like Atlanta's the nextplace Atlanta's the next place
for film.
We're all like, yeah, whatever,it's not gonna happen.
It's not gonna happen and Igraduated and it didn't happen.
So I moved to New York and, ofcourse, moved to New York and,
like, a year later, georgia filmexplodes.
(10:38):
That's okay, cause I'm glad itwasn't happening because I might
have been influenced to stayand I think the best thing I
ever did was to move away.
And why is that?
Because it made me get out ofmy comfort zone.
It made me have to reallydecide that this was what I was
going to do.
Because moving to New York,especially where the cost of
(11:01):
living is so high and I'm thereevery day and money's just
burning a hole in my pocket Iwas newly married, I got married
, got out of college.
Every day you're there.
It matters because money's justgoing out the door.
And there's no time to screwaround, and so I think for me,
if I had been in the comfortzone of my home town, I would
(11:23):
have.
There's the tendency to fallback on the backup plan to like
well, I can still work my joband do this on the weekends or
whenever I have time, and I knowmyself and I need to put my
feet to the fire and I think,knowing that I had a wife to
provide for and a couple ofyears later we had our first
child and so growing a familynot wanting to be impeded by
(11:46):
living in New York, wanting tolike we wanted to have a family
so we were going to do it.
But that just creates, obviously, a higher cost of living, more
pressure, but it was goodpressure because I had to really
ask myself why I wanted to dothis.
Is this really my passion,enough to pursue it?
Do I have the talent?
I had to be really honest withmyself.
All these questions that youmust ask that I think you ask a
(12:11):
lot quicker when you are paying$4,000 a month in rent and
you're working making $10 anhour selling shoes in Long
Island City, which is what I wasdoing at the time.
I just felt like it reallyhelped me focus and it really
helped me not waste time and Ithink I progressed a little
(12:33):
quicker probably than I wouldhave if I just stuck around
Atlanta.
Allen Wolf (12:38):
So did that experience in New York then lead
you to developing that EveningSun as your first feature film.
Scott Teems (12:44):
Indirectly.
So I moved to New York and Igot a job and there was a
community of artists therecalled the Haven that I got
involved in pretty soon afterlanding there.
This was artist of all types.
I mean New York's great becausethere's actors and singers and
dancers and writers andplaywrights, screenwriters, all
(13:05):
kinds, and so we have thiscommunity of artists.
We're supporting each other,meeting together regularly, all
in our 20s, mostly young folk,you know, just trying to pursue
their dreams, and so that was agreat community.
Through that I met a guy namedTerrence Berry who ended up
producing all my short films andthen he produced that Evening
(13:26):
Sun.
And Terrence also funded me togo to Act One.
He helped me.
I couldn't even afford to takethis screenwriting class called
Act One, which is what's seminalfor me.
I took it in 2001 in New Yorkand it was a huge, huge deal for
me and I made a lot of people,made a lot of connections that
(13:48):
all were building on top of eachother.
But Terrence, I couldn't, like Isaid, I was paying 10 bucks,
making 10 bucks an hour sellingshoes, and I couldn't afford the
tuition to go to this summerprogram.
And Terrence, to his greatcredit, and I always thank him
for this put the money up for meto go.
He believed in me but his moneywas in my office.
He said I want to be a producer, I want to produce your work.
(14:10):
I'm going to send you to thisthing.
And he did.
And that was the beginning ofour partnership and we made a
few films together and then Iwrote a bunch of bad scripts.
I was in New York for about fiveyears.
We wrote a bunch of bad scripts, made a lot of short films Each
one a little less bad than theone before it, and played some
festivals and that kind of stuffand kind of got my sea legs
(14:32):
sort of and doing making moviesand writing and sort of figuring
it out, and moved to LosAngeles in 2005.
And the first thing I wrotewhen I got here was that evening
sun and then that took aboutthree years to get it made.
But Terrence was a huge part ofthat and having that New York
community was a huge part ofthat.
And those people are still myfriends today and a lot of them
(14:53):
live here in Los Angeles.
It's just been the through line.
Having that community has beensuch an important part of my
story and my journey.
For me and my wife and ourfamily it's been imperative.
I saw some of those guys just acouple of days ago and we see
each other regularly and it'sinvaluable.
Allen Wolf (15:12):
And how would you say, looking back, that that
experience making the eveningsun shaped you as a filmmaker?
Scott Teems (15:19):
It's the first movie you make, your first
feature.
It's seminal in so many waysand it set the table for
everything that was to come.
But just as a but personally,it really just affirmed this
hope that I had had that thekinds of stories I wanted to
tell, which to a large degreeremained small southern stories
about men and violence and Godand how those things intersect
(15:42):
and collide and explode together, that those kinds of stories
could connect to people.
That evening sun, it didn't makeany money, but it won some
awards, it got me representation, it built a ton of bridges for
my career, which was great.
But more than that, itconnected with people.
(16:02):
And it didn't connect with 100million people, but it connected
with people when they saw it,when they had a chance to see it
, and that's why I want to tellstories.
There's great value in escapismand those things have a place
in the world for sure.
It's just not what I want to do, despite my resume how you
(16:24):
might perceive my resume,especially writing studio movies
and we can talk about that, butI don't see them that way.
Allen Wolf (16:32):
Well, your newest film is Halloween Kills.
What was it like continuing thestory of the serial killer Mike
Myers?
Scott Teems (16:41):
It was a thrill to work on a franchise.
That was my first sort offranchise movie and that was fun
.
For me.
It was more fun to work with myold friend, David Gordon Green.
That was the first time we'dhad a chance to work together.
We've been friends for a longtime.
He was a real early supporter.
David is a kind of guy who justreally helps his friends and
(17:04):
helps people that he believes in.
David was a real big advocatefor that evening's son.
In fact he emailed Roger Ebertand asked him and told him about
the movie and told him to watchit and reviewed it, which is
one of the kind of great thrillsof my early career.
So David's always just been afriend and a fan and a supporter
(17:25):
.
So this is the first time wehad a chance to work together,
which was a ton of fun.
It was also great to work withBlumhouse again, who I've done
several projects with.
This is our first released filmand those guys are fantastic.
So it was just fun to work withmy friends on that movie.
And when you get to make a big,scary blockbuster movie it's a
(17:47):
different kind of thrill andsort of scratches that itch that
you have as a kid when you wantto make movies.
Allen Wolf (17:52):
And the review of the film Variety wrote, quote
never was there a film truer toits name.
They've sliced up with kitchenknives, hollowed out with a
fluorescent strip light,bisected with a chainsaw and
impaled on banisters.
The body count is phenomenal.
We love this stuff, you know wedo.
(18:12):
Unquote.
Why do you think audiences loveto see that kind of violence?
Scott Teems (18:20):
I mean that review is a little over the top.
I would well.
I would start by saying I'm notentirely convinced this is a
healthy love In fact, often it'snot.
And what interests me is reallytrying to scrutinize that
fascination with violencethrough the acts of violence
(18:40):
themselves and in some instances, like a Halloween, kills me, to
understand our complicity asmembers of the audience in that
violence.
That's something we're reallyinterrogating about in Halloween
kills, I mean that's literallywhat the film is about.
It's about mob violence and herdmentality and the sort of
(19:03):
disastrous ramifications thereof.
And now, look, is it lofty forme to sit here and say Halloween
kills is about like, has allthese big ideas?
Maybe, but if you're not tryingto say something, then why the
hell are we?
Are we doing any of it?
Like, I'm not?
I'm not interested in justkilling people.
(19:24):
For me this stuff meanssomething.
It's not violence for violencesake.
Now look at the end of the day,I don't direct the movie and I
don't I can write it.
I can try to give some sort ofsubstance to what's happening.
Ultimately, it lives its ownlife.
The director makes his choices,her choices, and the audience
(19:44):
has their own interpretation ofthat.
And people are going to chooseto see what they want to see but
.
I certainly am at least tryingto talk about something a little
bit deeper inside of this shell.
I mean, that's the beauty ofworking on a big movie that's
going to reach 100 millionpeople, or whatever it is.
You have a big much biggerplatform to say things and a
(20:07):
much bigger responsibility.
Sure, I'm trying to ride thatline and find that balance.
You can be a lot more directand subtle in nuance when you're
making the quarry of thatevening sun, because you know
there's much, much, much smallerbudgets, but you also have a
much, much smaller audience, andso there's a tradeoff.
You know you have to be a littlemore blunt, maybe a little less
(20:28):
overt over here for the biggeraudience.
But you're saying something andit's all about threading the
needle and finding a way to havea point of view.
A point of view is all I careabout and I want to see.
I don't care if I agree ordisagree.
I want you to have a point ofview.
I'm interested in that, in yourperspective on things.
As a storyteller, if you'retelling, if I'm watching your
(20:48):
movie, I want to know what youthink about this.
I don't want some neutralposition.
I want to express something andI'm interested in that.
So, I'm just trying to do thesame thing.
Allen Wolf (20:59):
No, no, no, no.
The juke is tocue Again.
Give it a shot.
Scott Teems (21:08):
Get in bed, you have to revoke your phone call.
Is those extra data availablein this world?
Author David Irons said thatthe high profile and things that
attract your failure and afair隶ity in your life are very
Wheeler and I think at leastplaying you, you can add to the
fore disruptive data and findwith your philosophy when it's
got so much snarky, it's a verysnarky review, which is totally
fine.
(21:28):
I mean it's fine.
I'm not here to criticize thecritics when you sign up to
write a franchise sequel.
I mean I'm writing InsidiousFive, I'm writing the Exorcist.
I've Wrote Halloween Kills.
You know that comes with theterritory.
People love to like just shootbullets at the thing.
(21:49):
That's been around for a longtime and that's totally fine.
I don't mind that.
But, like I say, I believethere's something deeper
happening in Halloween Kills andsome people will be willing to
take a deeper look into what thefilm is saying and some people
won't, and that's okay.
I wrote it for the people thatwill.
That's what happens with art.
I mean, like it's people aregonna misinterpret it.
(22:11):
I would say that's amisinterpretation, but that's
okay.
That's their interpretation ofit and hopefully there is room
for interpretation.
If it's too didactic, then it'swhat's the point.
It's like an out of pamphlet.
Art, hopefully, is more subtleand nuanced and it's about the
whole experience and thereforeit's open to an array of
(22:33):
interpretations.
I try so hard not to say somepeople are gonna get it and some
people aren't.
I don't like that languageCause maybe there's nothing to
get.
Allen Wolf (22:40):
Maybe I'm fooling myself.
Scott Teems (22:41):
Maybe it's all maybe it's what does he say
Unclouded by conscience ordelusions of morality?
Allen Wolf (22:48):
I mean, come on, Maybe that's maybe that is,
maybe that's what it is.
It's hard because when you hearthe bad stuff, like that's the
stuff that kind of stays withyou and the great stuff tend to
be like oh yeah, and find reasonto dismiss that.
So I apologize for not readingthe wonderful things that people
are writing about.
Halloween kills.
Scott Teems (23:09):
No, it's good.
I like to interrogate thisstuff.
I think it's interesting when Idid read those reviews.
There seems to be anunwillingness to engage the
movie and anything other thanthe surface level, which is fine
, as to be expected, buthopefully audiences will and
we'll see something underneath.
Allen Wolf (23:25):
Well, you mentioned when you're growing up that you
experienced a faith journey.
Can you describe what yourspiritual journey has looked
like?
Scott Teems (23:34):
Yeah, I grew up in the church.
You know, when you're from theSouth it sort of comes, at least
in the 80s, when you grew up inthe 80s it sort of, and before
that obviously it comes with theterritory.
Allen Wolf (23:45):
That you're just expected to go to church on
Sunday.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it's acultural expectation.
Scott Teems (23:50):
And then in the 90s , as I got into high school,
that expectation began to shift,you know, and I think there was
a change really, where thatexpectation went away, that
obligation went away.
People stopped going to church.
My family sort of stopped goingto church because there wasn't
a judgment anymore in thecommunity if you didn't go.
But then I started going tothis group called Young Life
(24:16):
that I found through my highschool, my friends there and
that's where I sort of had anencounter with.
Allen Wolf (24:24):
Jesus and what does that mean?
To have an encounter with Jesus?
Scott Teems (24:27):
Hey, I was introduced to this idea that a
guy was a personal God, wasavailable to people to have a
relationship with.
This is an idea that I hadn'treally ever had before, even
though I had grown up in church,hadn't heard it in that way, so
I started wrestling with that.
Then just had some encountersand some personal spiritual
(24:48):
experiences that just confirmedto me there was something bigger
happening, some things that Iknow to be true in my own life,
and then began to see the Biblein a different way, began to
read it in a different way, andthat is how I connected with
Jesus.
Allen Wolf (25:03):
Mike Flanagan, who's directed many horror films and
TV shows, such as the Hauntingof Hill House, said recently,
quote horror affords us theopportunity to really look at
ourselves and the things thatscare us, that disturb us as a
society and individuals.
It's incredibly powerfulunquote.
Do you agree?
Scott Teems (25:25):
For sure.
I mean, I was never a bighorror fan growing up and not
even as.
I became a young writer, I wastalking to Scott Derrickson.
He was sort of explaining hisphilosophy on horror.
He had made some horror moviesat that point, this was probably
15 years ago, and he was just.
He was saying how horror is theone genre that treats evil as a
(25:47):
real thing and that naturallyopens up so many opportunities
for spiritual exploration andconversation.
And that's why he was attractedto horror and that provoked me
to look at it in a new way.
And it was not long after thatthat I began to pursue my first
(26:09):
horror project.
And so and I found that to betrue Evil can be treated as a
real entity and therefore dealtwith in a serious way.
That can provide a lot ofinteresting opportunities.
I mean, I think that's whatHalloween ultimately is about.
Allen Wolf (26:25):
I find it refreshing when movies don't psychologize
evil away, when they don't tryto say evil is something only
caused by circumstances.
In the ring, which was a remakeof the Japanese film Ringu and
directed by Gore of Rubenski,who you're not working with the
main character thinks the girlis doing evil things because she
had a terrible childhood.
But I love the twist when sherealizes the girl is doing it
(26:49):
because she's evil.
And you know, with yourspiritual perspective, do you
feel like that gives you adifferent point of view on the
issue of evil when you approachthese projects?
Scott Teems (27:02):
I hope so.
I mean, I think another filmthat does a similar thing is
Silence of the Lambs, whereultimately, the viewer is forced
to reconcile the fact thatHannibal Lecter is just evil.
The trick is, as a person offaith, trying to navigate these
waters.
Is Hannibal Lecter evil or isthere evil inside of them?
(27:23):
Can Hannibal Lecter be redeemedin the grand sense of the word
and the Christian sense of theword?
These are the questions.
That's what the quarry isultimately about.
I mean, it's really about thisguy who murdered people, who, at
the end of the movie, is askingfor forgiveness.
Does he deserve it?
And that's really what the notspoiler alert if you haven't
(27:45):
seen it, but I mean, that's whatthe movie is about and you have
to wrestle with that question.
And of course, there can beobviously the psychological
damage that comes from abuse isa real thing and that can cause
people to do terrible things.
But also evil exists in theworld.
Allen Wolf (28:05):
I believe that and that's also a.
Thing.
Scott Teems (28:07):
And you can let it in and you can nourish it in
other ways and you can notdefend yourself against it or
whatever.
I just love wrestling with thequestions and I like that.
The ring does that and Lambsdoes that.
I'm trying to do it too, in myown little way.
Allen Wolf (28:24):
How have you used your background to approach the
upcoming sequel to the Exorcist?
Scott Teems (28:28):
You know it's early days still with that, but I
think it's just exciting to havea platform to explore these
ideas in a more overt way.
I think that's what'sinteresting, and to have
collaborators who are open tothese ideas.
I mean, I think one reasonthey're like having me around is
because I do share a certainperspective and I have a faith
(28:50):
and that's a big part of my life, and that it's not for everyone
on that team and so you know Ican add a different perspective.
I mean, that's really how thebest ideas are made Rectify.
Rectify often gets quoted asbeing one of the great
portrayals of a Christiancharacter on television, which
it was fascinating.
(29:11):
This character Tawny, and Ithink the reason is because
she's not a caricature, she's asort of warts and all
representation of a person, afull human, and the reason that
she was able to be created as afull human In large part because
of Ray.
She was Ray's creation but aswe moved her and progressed her
(29:32):
through those four seasons, thelast three years, that writer's
room was made up.
There were five of us,including our assistant who
worked with us a lot, and inthat room, the five of us, you
had a Protestant, me, you had asort of lapsed Catholic, you had
a non-practicing Jew, you had asecular humanist and you had a
(29:53):
stone-cold atheist, and the fiveof us wrote this show together,
and so what happens?
Allen Wolf (29:59):
is you.
Scott Teems (29:59):
Everything has to pass the sniff test.
Everything, nothing, nopropaganda gets through.
It has to be honest and truthfuland if it's truthful, it will
make its way through thatgauntlet of people, all
different perspectives, and so,for that character, anything
(30:20):
that I wrote or anyone elsewrote that smelled like
propaganda, it wouldn't make itthrough.
What you end up with is arefined sort of version of a
real person, a real character.
You need to be tested, you needto put your ideas in the world
and have people push back onthem.
That's collaboration, that is,that's truth-seeking as honesty,
(30:43):
that's a humility to be wrong.
And if God is real, if Jesus isreal, if these ideas are true,
then there's no harm and no sofear in putting them out in the
world and letting, letting themlive, because if they're real
then they will survive.
If they're true, you know, Idon't have to protect them.
(31:04):
If God is real, I don't have toprotect him.
He will be real.
There's power in that, I think,freedom in that, freedom as a
writer to explore all thequestions, all the concerns, all
the anxieties that come alongwith living in the world.
Man, it's hard to live in theworld.
It's hard.
It's hard to make movies, it'shard to tell stories, hard to
(31:24):
live in the world and Not get,not come away with a bunch of
bumps and bruises.
But if you have a faith andthen you don't have to try to
protect or deny that you knowand it can, you can pour out
through your work and your artand I think the more honest art
Makes for a better world.
Allen Wolf (31:44):
That's just my opinion, I assume the new fire
starter film stars DrewBarrymore.
She's an adult.
She's still setting everythingon fire.
Is that it?
Scott Teems (31:54):
I pitched that but nobody went for it.
No, it's not, it's a retellingof the story.
What's what's cool about thatis I've done a couple of King
adaptations.
What I liked about theopportunity to do fire starter
was that we already have theoriginal movie, which is pretty
(32:17):
Pretty by the book literally bythe book adaptation.
It follows the book prettyclosely and so that's already
there.
That exists, and so I hadfreedom to explore.
You know a sort of another wayto take to tell that story.
It's the same story essentially, but it's just you know another
way in.
We don't need the same thing wealready saw.
(32:39):
I'm trying to create a newperspective.
Yeah, I'm excited that movieshot this past summer and so it
will come out next year sometimeand it's very exciting now,
when you're adopting somethingfor Stephen King, do you work
directly with him?
No, in part it's because he'sgot any at any point 30 to 40
projects in development, I meanlike, and he's writing his own
(33:00):
stuff still, it's just, it getsincredible.
But you know, king has thiswonderful, amazing thing he does
where he will let people optionhis stories for a dollar and If
the stories are available andthere's very few stories
available, but ten years agothere were a few more and I got
I had.
I option one, that's how I sortof broke through, ultimately to
kind of start a career runningmore commercial movies, as I
(33:24):
optioned the breathing methodMyself for a dollar from Stephen
King Through his agents.
It comes with this Contract,which is really intense and but
the the core of it is basicallyyou have six months from the
time they give you the contractto deliver a script to Stephen
King, who then has Scriptapproval, and so I, and if he
(33:47):
approves the script, you keepgoing, if he doesn't, you're
done and you've wasted a dollarin six months Of your life.
Allen Wolf (33:53):
So this is true of any, even studio, films.
He's he's optioning them for adollar.
Scott Teems (33:57):
Yep, you can.
Yeah, he will, because he getspaid when it gets made.
So he can afford to do that.
Like I've optioned severalstories and if I'm negotiating
for a short story like thatevening sun or a novel like the
quarry, I'm optioning thesethings that might pay two grand
or five grand or twelve hundreddollars or whatever To get to
lease the rights for a year totry to make the movie and then
(34:20):
you got to pay for it when youfinally make it.
Well, king doesn't need yourtwo thousand dollars, right?
So he just says have it for adollar, try it out, see if you
can get it made, see if you canwrite a good script, and when
you do, then he gets paid on theother side of it.
Allen Wolf (34:35):
So he makes his money when it's made or he gets
a gross or whatever.
Scott Teems (34:39):
So it's a fantastic system because it lets young
writers like me he's my option.
He reads the script, he saysyes or no and then you go on and
that's it.
I've had very littleinteraction with him, but he so
far as liked what I've done withhis stuff and he's approved
everything.
Allen Wolf (34:55):
So we'll see.
How do you stay spirituallyhealthy in Hollywood.
Scott Teems (35:00):
I don't think it's any different in Hollywood than
anywhere else really.
I mean requires discipline andcommitment and focus and it just
has to be a priority.
For me, it really is aboutgrounding.
It's about grounding and myfaith, grounding in my family
and which keeps you humble.
(35:22):
I mean like, and you have kids,you know kids will make you
humble real fast.
They don't care what movie youmade or whatever.
Allen Wolf (35:30):
Was there a moment during your career when you felt
discouraged and wondered whatyour next project would be?
Scott Teems (35:37):
What time is it?
Allen Wolf (35:39):
Yes, every day, every day that's what you know,
that's what faith is.
I mean, that's what I think,that's.
Scott Teems (35:49):
You just keep climbing that hill.
Best advice I ever got when I,when I took act one and these
two writers, kristen Kathy Rileygreat writers.
They came to teach us one dayand they said look, every one of
our friends we know who havemade it.
By making it, they meant simplythat they make their living as
a writer.
They don't have to have anotherjob.
For all of our friends who dothat, it's taking them on
(36:09):
average about ten years, and Ihad come to New York that about
six months earlier With thedelusion that it would take me
about two years to figure out ifthis was gonna happen or not.
And I was newly married and wesaid let's go up there and give
it a couple of years.
It didn't work out, We'll goback and we'll see.
We got to go try, and so thatidea of ten years was like the
(36:33):
scales fell from my eyes and Iwas a whole perspective shift
and I was able to come home andtalk to my wife and say, look, I
think it's actually going to bemore like 10 years.
Are we prepared for thatjourney?
Are we together, prepared forthat?
I think a lot of the strugglesyou and I have both seen
(36:56):
marriages fail, friends leave,things fall apart for people and
I think a large part of that isbecause of expectations.
You think it's going to be onething but it's really going to
be something else and thereforeyour expectations are unmet.
That's where problems start inabout two years.
Then the person's like what'sgoing on?
When are you going to give upyour silly dream and move on
(37:17):
with whatever?
So I was able to go home andsay, OK, how about it's more
like 10 years?
Are we down for this?
And we were like, yeah, let'skeep going.
So seven years later, I madethat evening sun, but that was
an indie film.
It made it for a milliondollars and I worked on it for
five years.
I made a sum total of $20,000in that film.
(37:40):
$20,000 will last you fiveweeks in Los Angeles as you know
, so it's not like I was livingon that money.
So even though that movie got mean agent and it got me all that
stuff and it won awards, it wasjust a little indie film.
So you couldn't take that filmand then parlay that into
writing some big movie, becauseit just wasn't that, it was
(38:03):
about an old guy on a farm.
So, cut to, two years later I'mdead broke, haven't done
another thing yet, can't getanything off the ground and I'm
desperate.
I have at that point I havethree young kids at home and I'm
broke, I'm getting veryhopeless.
And so I called a friend who Iknew produced reality television
(38:26):
and I said I got to have a job,I need something.
And he gave me this job verygraciously and they sent me down
to West Texas to direct areality TV show and it was a
really really, really, reallyhard, hard, hard experience for
(38:46):
me.
I didn't like what we weredoing.
I was alone in West Texas forthe summer and people there.
It was tough, it was reallytough.
So, and I got really despondentthere and thought this is
probably it.
(39:07):
You put a camera in front ofsomeone who knows they're
supposed to be entertaining onit.
It's like pouring gasoline on afire and then they wanted more
gasoline on that fire to dothese outrageous things that I
found sort of reprehensible.
And I found myself being askedto direct this stuff.
So I spent a lot of time Iprayed about it.
(39:27):
I talked to my wife about it.
I was really torn about it andI said I can't do this.
But yet we had all these billsto pay and we said look, we're
going to have faith, we're goingto trust that something better
will come out of this if youreally can't do it.
I don't want to put bad stuffinto the world.
I don't want to make the worlda worse place by the stuff I put
(39:48):
into it.
And I was so grateful to myfriend and I didn't want to let
him down.
He had gone out on a limb togive me a break.
I felt terrible about that.
I was going to say I don'tbelieve in what you're doing
here.
It was really hard and I cameback home and I left that job
early.
I got home and about a monthlater I got my first studio gig
(40:09):
writing a job.
It came out of that, and thatwas the fall of 2011, which was
exactly 10 years after I tookAct 1.
And I haven't stopped workingsince.
Wow, the 10 year rule is thetakeaway from that.
Unmet expectations is reallyimportant.
(40:32):
Properly calibratedexpectations, I think, are the
key to life in general, butespecially to our relationship.
Allen Wolf (40:40):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
I?
Scott Teems (40:46):
want to be known that I was an honest person,
that I had integrity, that I waskind and then I put something
of value into the world.
So that's really if I can dothat, if I can get one of those
things that'll be a success.
I'm aiming for all of them.
We'll see how it goes.
Allen Wolf (41:07):
Fantastic.
Well, thank you so much forbeing my guest, scott.
I really appreciate hearingabout your journey and your work
.
It's a filmmaker.
Thank you for just being soopen about your life.
If you work in entertainment,be sure to check out the
complimentary courses and otherresources available at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
There are courses forpre-marriage and marriage and
(41:31):
the Alpha Hollywood course,which gives entertainment
professionals the chance toexplore faith while building
community.
You can find out more atnavigatinghollywoodorg.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
(41:52):
I look forward to being withyou next time.
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