April 9, 2024 • 43 mins
Joseph Holland, author, playwright, and former Housing Commissioner of New York State, shares his life's tapestry, embracing the arts and spreading joy through his plays while serving the Harlem community, which is showcased in the film "Harlem Grace." As Holland recounts the various hues of his life, we're reminded of the transformative power of faith and using one's talents to ignite hope and change in the lives of others.
Journey with us as we navigate the nuances of Holistic Housing, an innovative model that Joe pioneered, giving not just a roof over heads but also nourishing the mind, spirit, and future employment opportunities of those he served. From the principles that underpinned his life skills curriculum to the global reach of his initiatives, including the founding of an institute in Liberia, Holland's story is one of unwavering dedication. His transition into a political role, leveraging his extensive community and entrepreneurial experience, exemplifies a life of purpose. Be inspired as we trace Holland's footsteps, a path where faith, creativity, and the desire to leave a lasting legacy beautifully converge.
Harlem Grace Website
Joe's Website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allen Wolf (00:02):
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.
org to discover how you can getinvolved.
(00:23):
Today we're joined by JosephHolland, who is an author, a
playwright, the formercommissioner of housing for New
York State, an attorney,entrepreneur, speaker and the
subject of a 30-minute film Iwrote, directed and produced
Harlem Grace.
Welcome, Joe.
Joe Holland (00:43):
Allen, it is great to be here, so appreciate the
opportunity to be on yourpodcast.
Allen Wolf (00:48):
It's great to have you, after naming everything
that you are doing, that you'vedone.
You know I think of you as aRenaissance man.
Have you heard that descriptionof yourself before?
Joe Holland (01:01):
I have, and in all humility, I think that is a
wonderful thing to say about me.
I have been involved in avariety of activities,
initiatives over the years.
Allen Wolf (01:18):
Well, out of all the things that you've done, what
gives you the most joy?
Joe Holland (01:21):
I am a creative at heart, I have to say, from my
time as an English and historymajor.
I was at Cornell Universitydecades ago and I developed a
passion for writing.
Since that time it has grown,it's flourished.
(01:42):
I started writing poetry when Iwas in college and then that
transitioned to playwriting andI had two professionally
produced plays here in New YorkCity.
And then I got into ministry.
I started and ran a homelessshelter in Harlem and then I
(02:03):
applied my creativity to helpingthe men through a new program
called Holistic Hardware, whereI was taking biblically-based
principles and challenging themto apply those principles to
their daily lives so that theycould build self-sufficiency and
(02:24):
independence.
And then it transitioned intonarrative writing, nonfiction,
self-help.
Just a couple months ago I hadmy sixth book published.
I'm not a full-time writer, I'mstill a lawyer and a
businessman and a businessmanbut I do get the most
(02:49):
satisfaction and most joy out ofthat creative dimension of my
life.
Allen Wolf (02:51):
Your father was the first Black president of the New
York Stock Exchange and theambassador to Sweden Did.
His accomplishments put bigexpectations on your life.
Joe Holland (03:01):
I would say no.
I had a great relationship withmy father and I was certainly
inspired by his trailblazingcareer.
In fact he's one of the 120trailblazers that I have in my
book Make your Own History.
But when I was growing up I wasinto my own thing.
(03:23):
You know he was out doing hiscareer, but I a positive
influence because he wascommitted to excellence through
(03:47):
hard work.
I just remember his dedicationand his work ethic and his
perseverance and I thank Godthat some of that filtered down
into me and I love theopportunity to carry on dad's
legacy in that way.
Allen Wolf (04:06):
Well, it's amazing to think that a little over 30
years ago, when I was a filmstudent at New York University,
I asked you if I could make afilm about your life, which
became Harlem Grace.
What were your thoughts when Imade that request?
Joe Holland (04:20):
Allen, I have to say I was very surprised because
at the time I was still earlyin my Harlem career, as your
film illustrates.
I didn't have to come to Harlem.
As we already talked about, myfather had some accomplishments
(04:41):
and I had some academicattainments, with two degrees
from Cornell and then a lawdegree from Harvard.
So I had some other doors,career doors, open to me.
I had a job at a Wall Streetlaw firm where I had worked
during the summer while I was inlaw school.
(05:03):
That door was open to me.
But because I am a man of faithand I really believe in divine
guidance and I had a sense fromGod that there was a different
direction for my life, andthat's when I decided to not go
(05:26):
to Wall Street, where I couldhave worked in a law firm, but
to 125th Street, which is thecenter of Harlem, and open up a
solo law practice.
And I was working hard at that,as well as outreaching to the
community through the homelessshelter I started and in other
(05:49):
ways.
And that's why, when you madeyour request, I was so involved
with what I was doing.
I was like why would anybodywant to make a film about what
I'm doing?
A film about what I'm doing.
(06:09):
But even as I was surprised, Iwas gratified that you would
take such interest in what Icall the grunt work.
I was in the trenches, I mean,every day.
I was doing what I could tosurvive myself and to help
others survive and prosper, andso I was very surprised, but at
the same time I was pleased.
Allen Wolf (06:28):
It's amazing what's happened with the film.
When it came out 30 years ago,it was a finalist for the
Student Academy Awards and theProducers Guild of America
Awards.
It won a number of other awardsthan a distributor has been
distributing Harlem Grace forthe past 30 years.
And then two years ago, as Ithought about all the issues
with homelessness, it struck methat your story continues to
(06:51):
have relevance today.
I thought people would beinspired by your story, but the
version that was beingdistributed actually looked very
old because it had never beenscanned into high definition.
The music was very dated andthe soundtrack wasn't even in
stereo.
And then I was awarded a grantto restore and update Harlem
(07:12):
Grace, which was amazing.
We had shot the story on actualfilm, so I was able to get the
original footage scanned into 4Kand then I went about restoring
it, having new music created, anew sound mix.
I've been working on it as aside project for the past couple
of years until the new versionwas finally ready for its debut.
(07:32):
What was it like for you to seeHarlem Grace again after all
those years?
Joe Holland (07:38):
Once again, very surprised.
I loved Harlem Grace and thework that you had done with it.
Surprised I loved Harlem Graceand the work that you had done
with it, but it was on the shelf, as you said something 30 years
ago.
I still remember the premierein New York City and Manhattan
that you did and it was just awonderful experience seeing my
(08:01):
life on film, but I had prettymuch forgotten about it.
I have three kids and when theybecame of age they were all
teenagers.
I said, okay, they need to seeHall and Grace.
So I remember bringing themtogether and showing them Hall
and Grace, but that had to be adozen years ago.
(08:22):
So when you reached out to meand told me that you were
redoing the film, another verysurprised moment, but also
exciting, because the film hasvalue, not only to me but
because of the story that ittells.
It has the potential to inspireothers to reach out in
(08:46):
compassionate ways, to make adifference.
Allen Wolf (08:48):
Well, the story starts with you graduating from
Harvard Law School and then youdecide to move to Harlem, and
that's where the opening scenesof the film portray, and you
talked about that decision thatyou made, moving to Harlem when
you had a lot of otheropportunities available to you.
What went into that decision?
Joe Holland (09:09):
A lot of prayer.
I had pressure from my parentsand pressure from my professors
and pressure from my peers totake the conventional pathway,
which was to get the job at thelaw firm on Wall Street.
But as I thought and prayed, Idid this spiritual process over
(09:34):
a number of months, I got apiece, and people didn't
understand it.
I was even challenged by thisdecision I was making to go in a
different direction.
It was a difficult decision,not only in the decision-making
process that I've been talkingabout, but also stepping into an
(09:56):
environment that I'm not from.
It wasn't like I was going backto the neighborhood where I'd
grown up, because I grew up inVirginia and then abroad.
I lived in Europe for threeyears and then in the suburbs of
New York City, and so I was astranger to the inner city life
of Harlem and it was a steeplearning curve, and so that made
(10:20):
it even more challenging once Igot going on the journey.
Allen Wolf (10:23):
How would you describe Harlem at that time
when you decided to make thatmove?
Joe Holland (10:28):
One of the things I appreciate about Harlem Grace
is that you were intentionalabout capturing the realities of
Harlem at that time, and one ofthem this was the 1980s was
homelessness.
One of them this was the 1980swas homelessness.
Your film, harlem Grace, isabout that homeless struggle.
(10:48):
One of the early scenes has mycharacter encountering a
homeless man on the street.
He's a main character in thefilm, named Harvey, and Harvey
represents that reality ofHarlem and other inner cities
(11:08):
during that era of pervasivehomelessness, which was
exacerbated by the crack cocaineepidemic.
And so Harvey, like so manyothers, ended up homeless
because of a self-destructivesubstance abuse habit.
(11:29):
You had so many of thoseindividuals plagued by that
lifestyle which was really socounterproductive and disruptive
, and you had the larger realityof Harlem still not.
Then.
It got even worse in the 1960s,and so you had row after row of
(12:20):
abandoned buildings.
You had homeless and othersliving in these abandoned
buildings.
Harlem at the time was theclassic model of an underserved,
hard-hit ghetto.
Allen Wolf (12:31):
I remember, when we were filming, being on several
blocks where there were justcrack vials all over the
sidewalk and we had to be veryaware of where we were at all
times.
And even the character Harveythat you mentioned, he has a bag
that has all his possessions init that he carries around, and
we had that bag stolen threetimes while we were making a
(12:54):
movie.
At one point we left it in thevan and someone just smashed the
window of the van, took thatbag.
So throughout the course of thefilm we had to replace that bag
three times.
But even at that time, eventhough it was a little bit later
when we were filming it, youcan still just really see how
Harlem was just in a veryhurting place.
Joe Holland (13:14):
That just shows that you were experiencing the
bitter reality of Harlem at thattime.
I can't remember the times whenthe window of my car was broken
and I thought I was parking insafer neighborhoods of the
community.
I didn't park in areas where Iwas told not to go, but yet the
(13:39):
window was smashed numeroustimes.
When I reflect on my opening upthe homeless shelter, we opened
it up in the basement of onechurch.
This was on West 128th Streetand after a year the trustees of
that church decided okay,you've had some time, but we
(14:00):
don't want the homeless in ourbasement anymore.
So it was tough, but ourhomeless shelter became homeless
.
We had to find another location, and one block north there was
another church.
I was introduced to the pastorof that church, but then
somebody told me oh, that blockis much, much worse than the one
(14:23):
that you were on.
You don't want to go to thatblock.
We went to that block and theperson who advised me that was
absolutely correct.
There were some real challengesthat we had.
I do believe in the OldTestament scripture.
This is Psalm 91, where theverse says God will give his
(14:45):
angels charge over you, guardyou in all of your ways.
And so I was on that block thathad drug dealers and abandoned
buildings and homeless and thekind of block that people would
not go down.
But never was I harmed.
(15:06):
I didn't suffer any kind ofphysical abuse or attack.
I consider that to be God'sgrace and favor.
So we were on this block and theword got to me that the drug
dealers were upset because I wasstealing their clients, right
(15:27):
Wow, because I was taking thedrug addicts into my shelter and
we were cleaning them up, right.
They were becoming sober andbecause of that sobriety they
didn't use drugs anymore.
And so the drug dealer saw meas a threat to their business.
That threat was issued thatthey were going to get me.
(15:52):
They started on my car, theyvandalized it, they slashed the
tires, they broke the window andfelt like, well, maybe I should
take a break from this shelter.
I have to say that there wassome fear that I was
experiencing during thosemoments.
Then there were several men inthe shelter who were
(16:14):
transforming their lives, whohad benefited from the work that
we were doing, and they came tome and said look, you need a
posse.
I said posse, what are youtalking about?
And these were former drugdealers, so they knew what was
going on.
In fact, they knew some of thedrug dealers who were
threatening me.
They said whenever you comeinto this block, you need a
(16:37):
posse, you need us around you towalk you into the shelter, and
whenever you leave the block,you need that same posse to
escort you safely out of theblock.
Not only did it work with theposse they were right there for
me providing protection, buteventually the drug dealers
(16:58):
decided to move on from thatblock and go to another block
because of the work that we weredoing.
Allen Wolf (17:04):
That's amazing.
I remember when I was doingresearch for Harlem Grace,
before I started writing thescript, I went to your shelter I
feel like it was at five in themorning it was really early
when things got started andspent the day with the men at
the shelter, and when I left,what struck me is that, more
(17:25):
than teaching these men skills,you were really building
character and you were buildingthem into being different people
in their approach to the worldand approach to their lives.
And that's what I thought weneeded to still hear today,
because you hear so much abouthow to help people who are
(17:48):
homeless or having issues, butvery little of it has to do with
actual life-on-life investmentand really pouring into people's
lives.
And so I really appreciated howyou were able to do that and
capture that at your shelter andhow that really helped to
transform just hundreds andhundreds of people's lives.
Joe Holland (18:10):
Well, thank you for sharing that and I want you to
know that I appreciated yourhands-on approach to filming
Harlem Grace, because you notonly came to the shelter and
spent time there so you couldunderstand what was going on,
but you did the filming at thatsite right on West 129th Street.
(18:35):
The shelter's name was HawkHolmes.
You came to Hawk Holmes, youwere with the crew there at Hawk
Homes.
You had some of the residentsformerly homeless men it was a
men's shelter were in somescenes there.
You really were intentionalabout capturing the reality of
(18:57):
what we were going through bybeing on site.
So I definitely appreciate that.
So I definitely appreciate that.
And my perspective, Allen, toyour point, was not just about
providing housing for those whodidn't have it.
We called it holistic housingHousing not as an end in itself,
but housing as a means torestore the whole person.
(19:21):
And so, yes, they needed tocome in and have their physical
needs met right.
So, yes, there was the shelter,and then there was food, and
then there was clothing, becausethere were certain men who had
been on the street so long.
We had to rip off their clothesand throw them out immediately
and give them special shampoofor the shower and then they
(19:43):
would come out into a whole newclothing right.
So definitely the materialneeds, but the needs of the men
in the shelter went way, waybeyond that, and it was about
transformation, which meant thatwe had to restore that whole
(20:05):
person, and we did that bypaying attention to their
emotional needs, their mentalneeds, their spiritual needs,
their employment needs and then,of course, their residential
needs, their need for newhousing, and then, of course,
you know their residential needsand need for new housing, and
(20:25):
so it was that holistic approachthat really worked well for us.
Allen Wolf (20:30):
You mentioned that we filmed the movie in the
actual shelter, which was aprivilege to have that opened up
to us to be able to do that.
We also shot it at your home,at your office, and I remember
our lead character actually woresome of your clothing your ties
, office and I remember our leadcharacter actually wore some of
your clothing, your ties.
Did seeing any of that feellike opening a time capsule for
you?
Joe Holland (20:58):
Yes, I had to say, well, I'm glad my wardrobe has
improved a little bit over theyears.
Those moments really made itspecial for me because it wasn't
just about the work that I wasdoing, right, it was about who I
am as a person, right, and Istill live in Harlem, and that
was 30 years ago.
I mean, I've been in Harlemover 40 years now.
(21:20):
It was 30 years ago when we didHarlem Grace.
I don't live in the same place,but when I look at Harlem Grace
in fact the scene when I bringHarvey to my apartment and I
give him something to eat andthen he goes to the bathroom and
(21:42):
decides he has to leave to thebathroom and decides he has to
leave, and then he leaves and Inotice he's stolen all the
things out of my bathroom Iremember that scene so well
because it was my dining area,it was my bathroom All of these
things really bring it to lifefor me.
It really brings home the truththat we can be blessed with
(22:04):
material things through our owneffort and hard work, but it
really is about sharing thosethings with others.
That's where the greatestblessing of life comes from and
that's what comes back to mewhen I watch Harlem Grace.
Allen Wolf (22:20):
You had mentioned that that time period captured
the grunt work part of your life, and we just mentioned how the
shelter helped build thecharacter of the men who were
staying there and participating.
It struck me that the movieactually, it seems like, also
(22:41):
captures a very characterbuilding time for your life as
well.
Joe Holland (22:46):
Oh, yes, that was a time early in my work at the
shelter.
I mean, that was a time periodeven though the film was shot in
the early 90s.
It was capturing a time earlyin my work with the homeless,
when I was still in the processof understanding how can I best
(23:10):
serve, how can I make the mostimpact, how can I turn these
lives around.
And there's one scene well,there are a couple of scenes at
the shelter that feature what Ilearned to plant seeds of
character development in thelives of these men, and it
(23:33):
became holistic hardware, whichis a biblically-based life
skills curriculum which is justlike Harlem Grace, is still
alive and well 30 years later.
Holistic hardware is as well,and I call it hardware because
these are holistic tools thathelp individuals build a
(23:59):
transformative life where,whatever they're going through,
there are 10 tools, fromresponsibility to vision, to
self-esteem, to discipline, toplanning.
These tools which I learned andthis is to your point here this
was a learning experience forme.
(24:20):
I was developing these tools,applying them to my own life as
well as imparting them to thelives of the homeless, and these
tools were the key to mysuccess there, as the men were
applying these successprinciples and, sticking to it,
they really were able to go onand lead lives.
(24:44):
And holistic hardware was sosuccessful that a ministry came
alongside me and put it on videoso that it could be available
to homeless programs and otherkinds of outreach programs, such
as substance abuse and jobreadiness, throughout the
country.
(25:05):
And so over the decades it'sbeen used in cities across the
country and it's even been usedinternationally.
A minister in Liberia, westAfrica, bishop Emanuel Jones,
who heard about what we weredoing Bishop Emanuel Jones, who
heard about what we were doingreached out and we were able to
(25:28):
get holistic hardware over to acountry that had been ravaged by
a civil war the longest civilwar in Africa.
Bishop Jones was committed toworking to help the country
recover, and holistic hardwarebecame one of the tools that he
(25:50):
used to do that.
In fact, he invited me over, Itrained some of his ministers
and staff in the tools, helpedhim start a school for the
orphans who had lost theirparents in the Civil War, and
one of the things I'm most proudabout is because of my
contributions through BishopJones in Liberia.
He named the school there theJoseph Holland Christian
(26:13):
Institute.
Allen Wolf (26:14):
Wow, incredible.
After the events of HarlemGrace, you eventually became the
Commissioner of Housing for NewYork State.
What was that like?
Joe Holland (26:24):
I had not really been active in politics.
I did serve this was back inthe 80s before we did Harlem
Grace as a counsel to one of thestate senate committees, the
housing committee up in Albany.
But I was more communityfocused, grassroots was my work
(26:46):
environment, not in thepolitical environment.
And so once again I was verysurprised when the new governor,
governor George Pataki, gave mea call and was impressed with
the work that I had been doingwith the homeless and in the
community, because I not onlydid the homeless shelter but I
did some entrepreneurial workwith small businesses, really as
(27:10):
a way to create jobs for thehomeless and other
hard-to-employ people.
So I started the first AmericanExpress travel office in Harlem.
I also started the first BenJerry's, the first in an inner
city anywhere in the UnitedStates, but it was right on
125th Street in the center ofHarlem.
(27:31):
I was also instrumental inbringing a body shop retail
store to 125th Street.
This was an important dimensionof my work because at the time
Harlem was suffering because oflack of employment opportunities
, including the men in myshelter.
As a result of that work it wasgroundbreaking there was some
(27:55):
notoriety that I got as atrailblazer in that way.
It was through that, my phonerang and it was the governor of
New York State offering me to bea housing commissioner for the
entire state of New York,running a state agency and
providing funds for affordablehousing and other services,
(28:17):
which was exciting for mebecause it gave me an
opportunity to take what I hadlearned at the grassroots and
bring it into the governmentsector.
Allen Wolf (28:28):
You have been quite a trailblazer in your own life
and then you decided to write abook about trailblazers.
What inspired you to write yourlatest book?
The book is called.
Joe Holland (28:41):
Make your Own History Timeless Truths from
Black American Trailblazers.
And the 120 trailblazers in thebook come from research that
I've been doing over the courseof my life, really since my
college days.
I was a English and historymajor and before going on to law
(29:02):
school at Harvard, I got mymaster's in history at Cornell.
So there's been a passion forwriting and for history and
doing research, particularly inAfrican-American history, and
all of that has now manifestedin this new book, Make your Own
(29:23):
History, because it combines mypassion for history and writing
with my passion for reaching outand helping others.
What I've done with 120 RoleModels it's not just about their
biographies.
They all have great historicalaccomplishments, Otherwise they
(29:44):
would not have made it in thepresent.
(30:07):
And to illustrate this for you,one of my trailblazers he's
known as the father of theHarlem Renaissance, Alain Locke,
and he was an academic, one ofthe early Rhodes scholars, who
was African-American.
And the success principle that Idraw from his life is called Be
(30:31):
Creative With your Compassion,Because he was compassionate in
reaching out and helping othersin the Harlem Renaissance.
That was during the 1920s, whenthere was this movement which
he pioneered to move theconsciousness of African
(30:53):
Americans from that Jim Crow era, where there was segregation,
particularly in the South butthroughout the nation, to what
Locke called the New Negro,which was about a new mindset, a
new spirit among the masses ofAfrican-Americans.
(31:13):
We wanted to see them as strong, competent, enterprising
individuals that could moveforward and take control of
their lives and live in victory.
And that was his compassionateapproach.
And he was creative about it,so creative that he brought in
(31:35):
other writers, some of whom Iwrite about in my book Make your
Own History, like LangstonHughes and Nella Lawson and
Georgia Douglas Johnson, andthese were poets and fiction
writers who took this theme ofthe new Negro and brought it to
life.
It's important for us to usewhatever creative gifts we have
(32:00):
in compassionate ways.
Allen Wolf (32:01):
I love that.
I don't know if you knew this,but the Harlem Renaissance was
very inspirational to me as Imade and created Harlem Grace.
We actually feature artworkfrom the Harlem Renaissance in
the background of some scenesand then I actually recreate a
painting from the HarlemRenaissance using your character
, in a scene in the church wherehe's wearing a black vest and a
(32:25):
white shirt.
That's actually referencing apainting from the Harlem
Renaissance.
Joe Holland (32:31):
I am learning some important things from our
discussion today, Allen, which Ireally, really appreciate that
I didn't know about the bagbeing stolen three times.
I didn't know about the HarlemRenaissance influence of the
film.
This is insightful.
That's one of the themes of mybook.
It's about bringing history tolife in ways that we here in the
(32:57):
present day can relate to it.
I talked about Alain Lockebeing creative in his compassion
.
I'm really excited to know thatyou also are creative in your
compassion, so thank you forthat commitment.
Allen Wolf (33:12):
Thanks.
You've mentioned that you're aman of faith.
Where did your spiritualjourney begin?
Joe Holland (33:18):
I didn't grow up as a man of faith.
My parents, they were good,hardworking, moral people, but I
would not call them religiousor spiritual in their approach
to life.
They did expose me to church.
I grew up as a young boy on thecampus of Hampton University in
(33:40):
Hampton, virginia.
My father was president ofHampton University and so there
was a chapel on campus, and whenthere was a special service of
some kind, say on Easter or onChristmas Eve, I always felt at
the University of Michigan.
Before transferring after myfirst year to Cornell University
(34:18):
, I was on football scholarshipthere and there was a retreat
sponsored by two campusministries that focus on
athletes.
One is called Fellowship ofChristian Athletes, another is
called Athletes in Action.
They did a retreat.
I was invited to come on thatretreat and it was during that
(34:41):
time I was impacted by what wasshared with me about faith in
Jesus Christ with me about faithin Jesus Christ, and it was as
a result of my time with mypeers.
I had never really heard themessage of the gospel of Jesus
Christ from my peers.
(35:02):
I was deeply moved by thetestimonies that I heard.
During the weekend that we werethere, some Detroit Lion
football players came out tovisit us athletes and one of
them was someone that I admiredbecause I was a running back and
(35:22):
he was a star pro running back.
His name was Mel Farr.
He was a star with the DetroitLions and while he was at this
retreat, just for a few hours,the pro players were there.
He called the half dozen or soof the black players and said,
hey, let's go on a walk.
(35:43):
And as we walked around thiscamp, around this camp, he gave
us his testimony of how he was acollege player at UCLA and they
went south to play Alabama andthis was in the 1960s and the
town where they were wanted theBlack players to stay at a
(36:05):
separate hotel because of thesegregation of the time, and the
Black players were going toprotest and boycott.
And then one of his teammates, awhite player, came to Mel and
the other Black players and saidlet's pray, let's ask God to
intervene.
And he called it a miraclewhere they changed the hotel
(36:31):
owners, the town.
They changed their mind and letthe black players stay in the
same hotel as the white players.
He was saying and I'll neverforget this put God first in
your life and miracles willhappen and things will work out
and miracles will happen andthings will work out.
(36:53):
And I, you know, I never forgotthat and that was a compelling
(37:15):
moment for me to make my owngrew in my faith and I got to
the point where I was someonewho believed that my faith in
God was the most importantfactor in my life.
That was the key factor in mymaking the move from Harvard to
Harlem.
Allen Wolf (37:30):
And how did your parents respond to your new
faith?
Joe Holland (37:34):
My parents were unsupportive of my new faith
because they didn't understand.
They had been supportive of me.
They had put me through school,they had set me up for a
successful career path to walkdown.
And here I was because of myfaith and I made it clear to
(38:00):
them it was because of my faith,I was going in a different
direction.
They had paved the pathway forme and I was taking the road
less traveled and they didn'tunderstand that and it took them
a while to be accepting of it.
But the gratifying thing was notlong before my dad passed.
(38:25):
He passed just a couple ofyears.
I think it was three yearsafter I moved to Harlem.
He saw what I was doing, makinga difference, and he said, son,
I understand, I didn't before,but I understand now and I
support this.
That was an important moment.
(38:45):
And then my mom she actuallybecame a business partner of
mine in one of my businesses,the Harlem Travel Bureau.
I mentioned earlier theAmerican Express office.
We called it the Harlem TravelBureau and she lived in the
suburbs of Bronxville, north ofHarlem, and she would drive in
(39:05):
just about every day and I neverforget the look on her because
she was with me at the premiereof Harlem Grace, I invited my
mother.
She came I remember looking ather afterwards and she was
touched by the story that youwere able to put on the big
screen.
That made it special.
(39:26):
First, the lack of support fromyour parents and then having
that transform into such strongsupport.
Allen Wolf (39:33):
That's amazing.
At the end of your life, whatkind of legacy would you like to
leave behind is?
Joe Holland (39:40):
because, more than buildings that are constructed
and businesses that are launchedand run, those writings live on
.
(40:00):
I've written a memoir it'scalled From Harlem to Love and
now self-help books,particularly most recently, make
your Own History.
It tells stories of people wholive lives that make difference
in the lives of others, and someare unsung heroes, people we
(40:21):
never heard of before, like MaryEllen Pleasant, who moved to
California during the gold rushof the 1850s and became so
successful that she became knownby some historians as the
Harriet Tubman of Californiabecause she ran the Underground
(40:41):
Railroad in ways that helpedfree slaves in that part of the
country.
I really want to tell not onlymy own story but also the
stories of others in ways thatlive on and become an
inspirational legacy to thosewho really need to be uplifted.
(41:04):
We talked earlier about theHarlem Renaissance, and I like
for this book Make your OwnHistory to be a seed for a new
Harlem Renaissance.
This is 100 years later, soit's really the centennial of
the Harlem Renaissance andthere's still a journey to
(41:26):
travel for African Americans inthe United States, and I'd like
for this history coming to lifeto be a seed that will help
individuals move from whateverlife they're living now to what
I call a virtues-drivenlifestyle, a lifestyle where
(41:48):
they will embrace the virtuesthat I write about so that they
can live the best version of whothey are.
Allen Wolf (41:57):
That's great.
Well, thank you so much forbeing my guest, joe.
Thank you for the inspirationallegacy that you're weaving
right before our eyes.
Thank you for all the ways thatyou've just inspired others,
all the ways that you've beenbuilding others up all these
years, and I look forward tomore people discovering your
story and being inspired by whoyou are and the works that
(42:20):
you've produced.
Joe Holland (42:22):
I appreciate, Allen , you coming along my journey
here.
Your work here is helping thework that I'm doing, because
you're telling my story in a waythat I would not have been able
to do.
So thank you for your creativecompassion.
Allen Wolf (42:38):
Oh, thank you.
You can find out more aboutHarlem Grace and Joe's books by
going to MorningstarPicturescom.
If you work in entertainment,check out the complimentary
courses and other resourcesavailable at navigatinghollywood
.
org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
(42:58):
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywood.
org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.
org to discover how you can getinvolved.
(00:23):
Today we're joined by JosephHolland, who is an author, a
playwright, the formercommissioner of housing for New
York State, an attorney,entrepreneur, speaker and the
subject of a 30-minute film Iwrote, directed and produced
Harlem Grace.
Welcome, Joe.
Joe Holland (00:43):
Allen, it is great to be here, so appreciate the
opportunity to be on yourpodcast.
Allen Wolf (00:48):
It's great to have you, after naming everything
that you are doing, that you'vedone.
You know I think of you as aRenaissance man.
Have you heard that descriptionof yourself before?
Joe Holland (01:01):
I have, and in all humility, I think that is a
wonderful thing to say about me.
I have been involved in avariety of activities,
initiatives over the years.
Allen Wolf (01:18):
Well, out of all the things that you've done, what
gives you the most joy?
Joe Holland (01:21):
I am a creative at heart, I have to say, from my
time as an English and historymajor.
I was at Cornell Universitydecades ago and I developed a
passion for writing.
Since that time it has grown,it's flourished.
(01:42):
I started writing poetry when Iwas in college and then that
transitioned to playwriting andI had two professionally
produced plays here in New YorkCity.
And then I got into ministry.
I started and ran a homelessshelter in Harlem and then I
(02:03):
applied my creativity to helpingthe men through a new program
called Holistic Hardware, whereI was taking biblically-based
principles and challenging themto apply those principles to
their daily lives so that theycould build self-sufficiency and
(02:24):
independence.
And then it transitioned intonarrative writing, nonfiction,
self-help.
Just a couple months ago I hadmy sixth book published.
I'm not a full-time writer, I'mstill a lawyer and a
businessman and a businessmanbut I do get the most
(02:49):
satisfaction and most joy out ofthat creative dimension of my
life.
Allen Wolf (02:51):
Your father was the first Black president of the New
York Stock Exchange and theambassador to Sweden Did.
His accomplishments put bigexpectations on your life.
Joe Holland (03:01):
I would say no.
I had a great relationship withmy father and I was certainly
inspired by his trailblazingcareer.
In fact he's one of the 120trailblazers that I have in my
book Make your Own History.
But when I was growing up I wasinto my own thing.
(03:23):
You know he was out doing hiscareer, but I a positive
influence because he wascommitted to excellence through
(03:47):
hard work.
I just remember his dedicationand his work ethic and his
perseverance and I thank Godthat some of that filtered down
into me and I love theopportunity to carry on dad's
legacy in that way.
Allen Wolf (04:06):
Well, it's amazing to think that a little over 30
years ago, when I was a filmstudent at New York University,
I asked you if I could make afilm about your life, which
became Harlem Grace.
What were your thoughts when Imade that request?
Joe Holland (04:20):
Allen, I have to say I was very surprised because
at the time I was still earlyin my Harlem career, as your
film illustrates.
I didn't have to come to Harlem.
As we already talked about, myfather had some accomplishments
(04:41):
and I had some academicattainments, with two degrees
from Cornell and then a lawdegree from Harvard.
So I had some other doors,career doors, open to me.
I had a job at a Wall Streetlaw firm where I had worked
during the summer while I was inlaw school.
(05:03):
That door was open to me.
But because I am a man of faithand I really believe in divine
guidance and I had a sense fromGod that there was a different
direction for my life, andthat's when I decided to not go
(05:26):
to Wall Street, where I couldhave worked in a law firm, but
to 125th Street, which is thecenter of Harlem, and open up a
solo law practice.
And I was working hard at that,as well as outreaching to the
community through the homelessshelter I started and in other
(05:49):
ways.
And that's why, when you madeyour request, I was so involved
with what I was doing.
I was like why would anybodywant to make a film about what
I'm doing?
A film about what I'm doing.
(06:09):
But even as I was surprised, Iwas gratified that you would
take such interest in what Icall the grunt work.
I was in the trenches, I mean,every day.
I was doing what I could tosurvive myself and to help
others survive and prosper, andso I was very surprised, but at
the same time I was pleased.
Allen Wolf (06:28):
It's amazing what's happened with the film.
When it came out 30 years ago,it was a finalist for the
Student Academy Awards and theProducers Guild of America
Awards.
It won a number of other awardsthan a distributor has been
distributing Harlem Grace forthe past 30 years.
And then two years ago, as Ithought about all the issues
with homelessness, it struck methat your story continues to
(06:51):
have relevance today.
I thought people would beinspired by your story, but the
version that was beingdistributed actually looked very
old because it had never beenscanned into high definition.
The music was very dated andthe soundtrack wasn't even in
stereo.
And then I was awarded a grantto restore and update Harlem
(07:12):
Grace, which was amazing.
We had shot the story on actualfilm, so I was able to get the
original footage scanned into 4Kand then I went about restoring
it, having new music created, anew sound mix.
I've been working on it as aside project for the past couple
of years until the new versionwas finally ready for its debut.
(07:32):
What was it like for you to seeHarlem Grace again after all
those years?
Joe Holland (07:38):
Once again, very surprised.
I loved Harlem Grace and thework that you had done with it.
Surprised I loved Harlem Graceand the work that you had done
with it, but it was on the shelf, as you said something 30 years
ago.
I still remember the premierein New York City and Manhattan
that you did and it was just awonderful experience seeing my
(08:01):
life on film, but I had prettymuch forgotten about it.
I have three kids and when theybecame of age they were all
teenagers.
I said, okay, they need to seeHall and Grace.
So I remember bringing themtogether and showing them Hall
and Grace, but that had to be adozen years ago.
(08:22):
So when you reached out to meand told me that you were
redoing the film, another verysurprised moment, but also
exciting, because the film hasvalue, not only to me but
because of the story that ittells.
It has the potential to inspireothers to reach out in
(08:46):
compassionate ways, to make adifference.
Allen Wolf (08:48):
Well, the story starts with you graduating from
Harvard Law School and then youdecide to move to Harlem, and
that's where the opening scenesof the film portray, and you
talked about that decision thatyou made, moving to Harlem when
you had a lot of otheropportunities available to you.
What went into that decision?
Joe Holland (09:09):
A lot of prayer.
I had pressure from my parentsand pressure from my professors
and pressure from my peers totake the conventional pathway,
which was to get the job at thelaw firm on Wall Street.
But as I thought and prayed, Idid this spiritual process over
(09:34):
a number of months, I got apiece, and people didn't
understand it.
I was even challenged by thisdecision I was making to go in a
different direction.
It was a difficult decision,not only in the decision-making
process that I've been talkingabout, but also stepping into an
(09:56):
environment that I'm not from.
It wasn't like I was going backto the neighborhood where I'd
grown up, because I grew up inVirginia and then abroad.
I lived in Europe for threeyears and then in the suburbs of
New York City, and so I was astranger to the inner city life
of Harlem and it was a steeplearning curve, and so that made
(10:20):
it even more challenging once Igot going on the journey.
Allen Wolf (10:23):
How would you describe Harlem at that time
when you decided to make thatmove?
Joe Holland (10:28):
One of the things I appreciate about Harlem Grace
is that you were intentionalabout capturing the realities of
Harlem at that time, and one ofthem this was the 1980s was
homelessness.
One of them this was the 1980swas homelessness.
Your film, harlem Grace, isabout that homeless struggle.
(10:48):
One of the early scenes has mycharacter encountering a
homeless man on the street.
He's a main character in thefilm, named Harvey, and Harvey
represents that reality ofHarlem and other inner cities
(11:08):
during that era of pervasivehomelessness, which was
exacerbated by the crack cocaineepidemic.
And so Harvey, like so manyothers, ended up homeless
because of a self-destructivesubstance abuse habit.
(11:29):
You had so many of thoseindividuals plagued by that
lifestyle which was really socounterproductive and disruptive
, and you had the larger realityof Harlem still not.
Then.
It got even worse in the 1960s,and so you had row after row of
(12:20):
abandoned buildings.
You had homeless and othersliving in these abandoned
buildings.
Harlem at the time was theclassic model of an underserved,
hard-hit ghetto.
Allen Wolf (12:31):
I remember, when we were filming, being on several
blocks where there were justcrack vials all over the
sidewalk and we had to be veryaware of where we were at all
times.
And even the character Harveythat you mentioned, he has a bag
that has all his possessions init that he carries around, and
we had that bag stolen threetimes while we were making a
(12:54):
movie.
At one point we left it in thevan and someone just smashed the
window of the van, took thatbag.
So throughout the course of thefilm we had to replace that bag
three times.
But even at that time, eventhough it was a little bit later
when we were filming it, youcan still just really see how
Harlem was just in a veryhurting place.
Joe Holland (13:14):
That just shows that you were experiencing the
bitter reality of Harlem at thattime.
I can't remember the times whenthe window of my car was broken
and I thought I was parking insafer neighborhoods of the
community.
I didn't park in areas where Iwas told not to go, but yet the
(13:39):
window was smashed numeroustimes.
When I reflect on my opening upthe homeless shelter, we opened
it up in the basement of onechurch.
This was on West 128th Streetand after a year the trustees of
that church decided okay,you've had some time, but we
(14:00):
don't want the homeless in ourbasement anymore.
So it was tough, but ourhomeless shelter became homeless
.
We had to find another location, and one block north there was
another church.
I was introduced to the pastorof that church, but then
somebody told me oh, that blockis much, much worse than the one
(14:23):
that you were on.
You don't want to go to thatblock.
We went to that block and theperson who advised me that was
absolutely correct.
There were some real challengesthat we had.
I do believe in the OldTestament scripture.
This is Psalm 91, where theverse says God will give his
(14:45):
angels charge over you, guardyou in all of your ways.
And so I was on that block thathad drug dealers and abandoned
buildings and homeless and thekind of block that people would
not go down.
But never was I harmed.
(15:06):
I didn't suffer any kind ofphysical abuse or attack.
I consider that to be God'sgrace and favor.
So we were on this block and theword got to me that the drug
dealers were upset because I wasstealing their clients, right
(15:27):
Wow, because I was taking thedrug addicts into my shelter and
we were cleaning them up, right.
They were becoming sober andbecause of that sobriety they
didn't use drugs anymore.
And so the drug dealer saw meas a threat to their business.
That threat was issued thatthey were going to get me.
(15:52):
They started on my car, theyvandalized it, they slashed the
tires, they broke the window andfelt like, well, maybe I should
take a break from this shelter.
I have to say that there wassome fear that I was
experiencing during thosemoments.
Then there were several men inthe shelter who were
(16:14):
transforming their lives, whohad benefited from the work that
we were doing, and they came tome and said look, you need a
posse.
I said posse, what are youtalking about?
And these were former drugdealers, so they knew what was
going on.
In fact, they knew some of thedrug dealers who were
threatening me.
They said whenever you comeinto this block, you need a
(16:37):
posse, you need us around you towalk you into the shelter, and
whenever you leave the block,you need that same posse to
escort you safely out of theblock.
Not only did it work with theposse they were right there for
me providing protection, buteventually the drug dealers
(16:58):
decided to move on from thatblock and go to another block
because of the work that we weredoing.
Allen Wolf (17:04):
That's amazing.
I remember when I was doingresearch for Harlem Grace,
before I started writing thescript, I went to your shelter I
feel like it was at five in themorning it was really early
when things got started andspent the day with the men at
the shelter, and when I left,what struck me is that, more
(17:25):
than teaching these men skills,you were really building
character and you were buildingthem into being different people
in their approach to the worldand approach to their lives.
And that's what I thought weneeded to still hear today,
because you hear so much abouthow to help people who are
(17:48):
homeless or having issues, butvery little of it has to do with
actual life-on-life investmentand really pouring into people's
lives.
And so I really appreciated howyou were able to do that and
capture that at your shelter andhow that really helped to
transform just hundreds andhundreds of people's lives.
Joe Holland (18:10):
Well, thank you for sharing that and I want you to
know that I appreciated yourhands-on approach to filming
Harlem Grace, because you notonly came to the shelter and
spent time there so you couldunderstand what was going on,
but you did the filming at thatsite right on West 129th Street.
(18:35):
The shelter's name was HawkHolmes.
You came to Hawk Holmes, youwere with the crew there at Hawk
Homes.
You had some of the residentsformerly homeless men it was a
men's shelter were in somescenes there.
You really were intentionalabout capturing the reality of
(18:57):
what we were going through bybeing on site.
So I definitely appreciate that.
So I definitely appreciate that.
And my perspective, Allen, toyour point, was not just about
providing housing for those whodidn't have it.
We called it holistic housingHousing not as an end in itself,
but housing as a means torestore the whole person.
(19:21):
And so, yes, they needed tocome in and have their physical
needs met right.
So, yes, there was the shelter,and then there was food, and
then there was clothing, becausethere were certain men who had
been on the street so long.
We had to rip off their clothesand throw them out immediately
and give them special shampoofor the shower and then they
(19:43):
would come out into a whole newclothing right.
So definitely the materialneeds, but the needs of the men
in the shelter went way, waybeyond that, and it was about
transformation, which meant thatwe had to restore that whole
(20:05):
person, and we did that bypaying attention to their
emotional needs, their mentalneeds, their spiritual needs,
their employment needs and then,of course, their residential
needs, their need for newhousing, and then, of course,
you know their residential needsand need for new housing, and
(20:25):
so it was that holistic approachthat really worked well for us.
Allen Wolf (20:30):
You mentioned that we filmed the movie in the
actual shelter, which was aprivilege to have that opened up
to us to be able to do that.
We also shot it at your home,at your office, and I remember
our lead character actually woresome of your clothing your ties
, office and I remember our leadcharacter actually wore some of
your clothing, your ties.
Did seeing any of that feellike opening a time capsule for
you?
Joe Holland (20:58):
Yes, I had to say, well, I'm glad my wardrobe has
improved a little bit over theyears.
Those moments really made itspecial for me because it wasn't
just about the work that I wasdoing, right, it was about who I
am as a person, right, and Istill live in Harlem, and that
was 30 years ago.
I mean, I've been in Harlemover 40 years now.
(21:20):
It was 30 years ago when we didHarlem Grace.
I don't live in the same place,but when I look at Harlem Grace
in fact the scene when I bringHarvey to my apartment and I
give him something to eat andthen he goes to the bathroom and
(21:42):
decides he has to leave to thebathroom and decides he has to
leave, and then he leaves and Inotice he's stolen all the
things out of my bathroom Iremember that scene so well
because it was my dining area,it was my bathroom All of these
things really bring it to lifefor me.
It really brings home the truththat we can be blessed with
(22:04):
material things through our owneffort and hard work, but it
really is about sharing thosethings with others.
That's where the greatestblessing of life comes from and
that's what comes back to mewhen I watch Harlem Grace.
Allen Wolf (22:20):
You had mentioned that that time period captured
the grunt work part of your life, and we just mentioned how the
shelter helped build thecharacter of the men who were
staying there and participating.
It struck me that the movieactually, it seems like, also
(22:41):
captures a very characterbuilding time for your life as
well.
Joe Holland (22:46):
Oh, yes, that was a time early in my work at the
shelter.
I mean, that was a time periodeven though the film was shot in
the early 90s.
It was capturing a time earlyin my work with the homeless,
when I was still in the processof understanding how can I best
(23:10):
serve, how can I make the mostimpact, how can I turn these
lives around.
And there's one scene well,there are a couple of scenes at
the shelter that feature what Ilearned to plant seeds of
character development in thelives of these men, and it
(23:33):
became holistic hardware, whichis a biblically-based life
skills curriculum which is justlike Harlem Grace, is still
alive and well 30 years later.
Holistic hardware is as well,and I call it hardware because
these are holistic tools thathelp individuals build a
(23:59):
transformative life where,whatever they're going through,
there are 10 tools, fromresponsibility to vision, to
self-esteem, to discipline, toplanning.
These tools which I learned andthis is to your point here this
was a learning experience forme.
(24:20):
I was developing these tools,applying them to my own life as
well as imparting them to thelives of the homeless, and these
tools were the key to mysuccess there, as the men were
applying these successprinciples and, sticking to it,
they really were able to go onand lead lives.
(24:44):
And holistic hardware was sosuccessful that a ministry came
alongside me and put it on videoso that it could be available
to homeless programs and otherkinds of outreach programs, such
as substance abuse and jobreadiness, throughout the
country.
(25:05):
And so over the decades it'sbeen used in cities across the
country and it's even been usedinternationally.
A minister in Liberia, westAfrica, bishop Emanuel Jones,
who heard about what we weredoing Bishop Emanuel Jones, who
heard about what we were doingreached out and we were able to
(25:28):
get holistic hardware over to acountry that had been ravaged by
a civil war the longest civilwar in Africa.
Bishop Jones was committed toworking to help the country
recover, and holistic hardwarebecame one of the tools that he
(25:50):
used to do that.
In fact, he invited me over, Itrained some of his ministers
and staff in the tools, helpedhim start a school for the
orphans who had lost theirparents in the Civil War, and
one of the things I'm most proudabout is because of my
contributions through BishopJones in Liberia.
He named the school there theJoseph Holland Christian
(26:13):
Institute.
Allen Wolf (26:14):
Wow, incredible.
After the events of HarlemGrace, you eventually became the
Commissioner of Housing for NewYork State.
What was that like?
Joe Holland (26:24):
I had not really been active in politics.
I did serve this was back inthe 80s before we did Harlem
Grace as a counsel to one of thestate senate committees, the
housing committee up in Albany.
But I was more communityfocused, grassroots was my work
(26:46):
environment, not in thepolitical environment.
And so once again I was verysurprised when the new governor,
governor George Pataki, gave mea call and was impressed with
the work that I had been doingwith the homeless and in the
community, because I not onlydid the homeless shelter but I
did some entrepreneurial workwith small businesses, really as
(27:10):
a way to create jobs for thehomeless and other
hard-to-employ people.
So I started the first AmericanExpress travel office in Harlem.
I also started the first BenJerry's, the first in an inner
city anywhere in the UnitedStates, but it was right on
125th Street in the center ofHarlem.
(27:31):
I was also instrumental inbringing a body shop retail
store to 125th Street.
This was an important dimensionof my work because at the time
Harlem was suffering because oflack of employment opportunities
, including the men in myshelter.
As a result of that work it wasgroundbreaking there was some
(27:55):
notoriety that I got as atrailblazer in that way.
It was through that, my phonerang and it was the governor of
New York State offering me to bea housing commissioner for the
entire state of New York,running a state agency and
providing funds for affordablehousing and other services,
(28:17):
which was exciting for mebecause it gave me an
opportunity to take what I hadlearned at the grassroots and
bring it into the governmentsector.
Allen Wolf (28:28):
You have been quite a trailblazer in your own life
and then you decided to write abook about trailblazers.
What inspired you to write yourlatest book?
The book is called.
Joe Holland (28:41):
Make your Own History Timeless Truths from
Black American Trailblazers.
And the 120 trailblazers in thebook come from research that
I've been doing over the courseof my life, really since my
college days.
I was a English and historymajor and before going on to law
(29:02):
school at Harvard, I got mymaster's in history at Cornell.
So there's been a passion forwriting and for history and
doing research, particularly inAfrican-American history, and
all of that has now manifestedin this new book, Make your Own
(29:23):
History, because it combines mypassion for history and writing
with my passion for reaching outand helping others.
What I've done with 120 RoleModels it's not just about their
biographies.
They all have great historicalaccomplishments, Otherwise they
(29:44):
would not have made it in thepresent.
(30:07):
And to illustrate this for you,one of my trailblazers he's
known as the father of theHarlem Renaissance, Alain Locke,
and he was an academic, one ofthe early Rhodes scholars, who
was African-American.
And the success principle that Idraw from his life is called Be
(30:31):
Creative With your Compassion,Because he was compassionate in
reaching out and helping othersin the Harlem Renaissance.
That was during the 1920s, whenthere was this movement which
he pioneered to move theconsciousness of African
(30:53):
Americans from that Jim Crow era, where there was segregation,
particularly in the South butthroughout the nation, to what
Locke called the New Negro,which was about a new mindset, a
new spirit among the masses ofAfrican-Americans.
(31:13):
We wanted to see them as strong, competent, enterprising
individuals that could moveforward and take control of
their lives and live in victory.
And that was his compassionateapproach.
And he was creative about it,so creative that he brought in
(31:35):
other writers, some of whom Iwrite about in my book Make your
Own History, like LangstonHughes and Nella Lawson and
Georgia Douglas Johnson, andthese were poets and fiction
writers who took this theme ofthe new Negro and brought it to
life.
It's important for us to usewhatever creative gifts we have
(32:00):
in compassionate ways.
Allen Wolf (32:01):
I love that.
I don't know if you knew this,but the Harlem Renaissance was
very inspirational to me as Imade and created Harlem Grace.
We actually feature artworkfrom the Harlem Renaissance in
the background of some scenesand then I actually recreate a
painting from the HarlemRenaissance using your character
, in a scene in the church wherehe's wearing a black vest and a
(32:25):
white shirt.
That's actually referencing apainting from the Harlem
Renaissance.
Joe Holland (32:31):
I am learning some important things from our
discussion today, Allen, which Ireally, really appreciate that
I didn't know about the bagbeing stolen three times.
I didn't know about the HarlemRenaissance influence of the
film.
This is insightful.
That's one of the themes of mybook.
It's about bringing history tolife in ways that we here in the
(32:57):
present day can relate to it.
I talked about Alain Lockebeing creative in his compassion
.
I'm really excited to know thatyou also are creative in your
compassion, so thank you forthat commitment.
Allen Wolf (33:12):
Thanks.
You've mentioned that you're aman of faith.
Where did your spiritualjourney begin?
Joe Holland (33:18):
I didn't grow up as a man of faith.
My parents, they were good,hardworking, moral people, but I
would not call them religiousor spiritual in their approach
to life.
They did expose me to church.
I grew up as a young boy on thecampus of Hampton University in
(33:40):
Hampton, virginia.
My father was president ofHampton University and so there
was a chapel on campus, and whenthere was a special service of
some kind, say on Easter or onChristmas Eve, I always felt at
the University of Michigan.
Before transferring after myfirst year to Cornell University
(34:18):
, I was on football scholarshipthere and there was a retreat
sponsored by two campusministries that focus on
athletes.
One is called Fellowship ofChristian Athletes, another is
called Athletes in Action.
They did a retreat.
I was invited to come on thatretreat and it was during that
(34:41):
time I was impacted by what wasshared with me about faith in
Jesus Christ with me about faithin Jesus Christ, and it was as
a result of my time with mypeers.
I had never really heard themessage of the gospel of Jesus
Christ from my peers.
(35:02):
I was deeply moved by thetestimonies that I heard.
During the weekend that we werethere, some Detroit Lion
football players came out tovisit us athletes and one of
them was someone that I admiredbecause I was a running back and
(35:22):
he was a star pro running back.
His name was Mel Farr.
He was a star with the DetroitLions and while he was at this
retreat, just for a few hours,the pro players were there.
He called the half dozen or soof the black players and said,
hey, let's go on a walk.
(35:43):
And as we walked around thiscamp, around this camp, he gave
us his testimony of how he was acollege player at UCLA and they
went south to play Alabama andthis was in the 1960s and the
town where they were wanted theBlack players to stay at a
(36:05):
separate hotel because of thesegregation of the time, and the
Black players were going toprotest and boycott.
And then one of his teammates, awhite player, came to Mel and
the other Black players and saidlet's pray, let's ask God to
intervene.
And he called it a miraclewhere they changed the hotel
(36:31):
owners, the town.
They changed their mind and letthe black players stay in the
same hotel as the white players.
He was saying and I'll neverforget this put God first in
your life and miracles willhappen and things will work out
and miracles will happen andthings will work out.
(36:53):
And I, you know, I never forgotthat and that was a compelling
(37:15):
moment for me to make my owngrew in my faith and I got to
the point where I was someonewho believed that my faith in
God was the most importantfactor in my life.
That was the key factor in mymaking the move from Harvard to
Harlem.
Allen Wolf (37:30):
And how did your parents respond to your new
faith?
Joe Holland (37:34):
My parents were unsupportive of my new faith
because they didn't understand.
They had been supportive of me.
They had put me through school,they had set me up for a
successful career path to walkdown.
And here I was because of myfaith and I made it clear to
(38:00):
them it was because of my faith,I was going in a different
direction.
They had paved the pathway forme and I was taking the road
less traveled and they didn'tunderstand that and it took them
a while to be accepting of it.
But the gratifying thing was notlong before my dad passed.
(38:25):
He passed just a couple ofyears.
I think it was three yearsafter I moved to Harlem.
He saw what I was doing, makinga difference, and he said, son,
I understand, I didn't before,but I understand now and I
support this.
That was an important moment.
(38:45):
And then my mom she actuallybecame a business partner of
mine in one of my businesses,the Harlem Travel Bureau.
I mentioned earlier theAmerican Express office.
We called it the Harlem TravelBureau and she lived in the
suburbs of Bronxville, north ofHarlem, and she would drive in
(39:05):
just about every day and I neverforget the look on her because
she was with me at the premiereof Harlem Grace, I invited my
mother.
She came I remember looking ather afterwards and she was
touched by the story that youwere able to put on the big
screen.
That made it special.
(39:26):
First, the lack of support fromyour parents and then having
that transform into such strongsupport.
Allen Wolf (39:33):
That's amazing.
At the end of your life, whatkind of legacy would you like to
leave behind is?
Joe Holland (39:40):
because, more than buildings that are constructed
and businesses that are launchedand run, those writings live on
.
(40:00):
I've written a memoir it'scalled From Harlem to Love and
now self-help books,particularly most recently, make
your Own History.
It tells stories of people wholive lives that make difference
in the lives of others, and someare unsung heroes, people we
(40:21):
never heard of before, like MaryEllen Pleasant, who moved to
California during the gold rushof the 1850s and became so
successful that she became knownby some historians as the
Harriet Tubman of Californiabecause she ran the Underground
(40:41):
Railroad in ways that helpedfree slaves in that part of the
country.
I really want to tell not onlymy own story but also the
stories of others in ways thatlive on and become an
inspirational legacy to thosewho really need to be uplifted.
(41:04):
We talked earlier about theHarlem Renaissance, and I like
for this book Make your OwnHistory to be a seed for a new
Harlem Renaissance.
This is 100 years later, soit's really the centennial of
the Harlem Renaissance andthere's still a journey to
(41:26):
travel for African Americans inthe United States, and I'd like
for this history coming to lifeto be a seed that will help
individuals move from whateverlife they're living now to what
I call a virtues-drivenlifestyle, a lifestyle where
(41:48):
they will embrace the virtuesthat I write about so that they
can live the best version of whothey are.
Allen Wolf (41:57):
That's great.
Well, thank you so much forbeing my guest, joe.
Thank you for the inspirationallegacy that you're weaving
right before our eyes.
Thank you for all the ways thatyou've just inspired others,
all the ways that you've beenbuilding others up all these
years, and I look forward tomore people discovering your
story and being inspired by whoyou are and the works that
(42:20):
you've produced.
Joe Holland (42:22):
I appreciate, Allen , you coming along my journey
here.
Your work here is helping thework that I'm doing, because
you're telling my story in a waythat I would not have been able
to do.
So thank you for your creativecompassion.
Allen Wolf (42:38):
Oh, thank you.
You can find out more aboutHarlem Grace and Joe's books by
going to MorningstarPicturescom.
If you work in entertainment,check out the complimentary
courses and other resourcesavailable at navigatinghollywood
.
org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
(42:58):
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywood.
org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
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