November 11, 2025 • 37 mins
Disney Legend Mark Henn, the animator behind Ariel, Belle, Jasmine, Young Simba, Mulan, and Tiana, shares how a childhood spark became a career-defining experience during the Disney Renaissance. After three rejections from Disney, he found his way through CalArts and mentorship by studio greats.
We explore the acting behind animation: how he carves distinct personalities so Belle never moves like Ariel, why a swimmer's hair flip made Mulan feel real, and how personal references (like modeling Jasmine on his sister Beth) unlock a character's essence. Mark opens up about design retreats, story challenges, and balancing style with cultural research. He reflects on his passion project, John Henry, and on witnessing Disney's transformation from hand-drawn to CG.
The constant across decades? Story and character. Films resonate when viewers see themselves in the stakes and humor. Letters from fans—children who saw themselves in Tiana, teens who found confidence in Belle—affirm why these stories matter. Mark's faith grounds his focus on excellence, gratitude, and legacy: do the work with care and leave behind characters that continue to inspire.
The 10th Anniversary of the novel Allen Wolf wrote, The Sound of Violet, is now available wherever you buy books. Kirkus Reviews calls it "A heartwarming love story with standout characters that readers won’t forget.” The BookLife Prize says, “The prose has the sweet, forward-moving cadence of a great romantic comedy, and readers will swoon.” See more at thesoundofviolet.com.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allen Wolf (01:20):
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood Podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf, and I'ma filmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood helpsmedia professionals build
holistic, creative, andspiritual lives through this
podcast and discussion groups atthe major studios.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.org to
discover how you can getinvolved.
(01:42):
Today, we're joined byanimation legend Mark Henn, the
man behind some of Disney's mostbeloved characters.
Over his 43-year career at WaltDisney Animation Studios, Mark
became known as the Princess Guyfor his masterful work bringing
Disney's most iconic heroinesto life, such as Ariel from The
(02:06):
Little Mermaid, Belle fromBeauty and the Beast, Jasmine
from Aladdin, Young Simba fromThe Lion King, Mulan from Mulan,
and Princess Tiana from ThePrincess and the Frog.
His artistry helped define theDisney Renaissance era and
continues to inspire animatorsworldwide.
(02:27):
In 2013, Mark received theprestigious Windsor McKay Award
for lifetime achievement inanimation.
And in 2024, he was honored asa Disney legend.
Mark retired in 2023, butcontinues to be celebrated as
one of the most influentialcharacter animators of his
generation.
(02:48):
Welcome, Mark.
Mark Henn (02:50):
Wow.
Thank you, Allen.
Thanks for having me.
Allen Wolf (02:52):
Now, in England, when you're knighted, you have
to start calling someone Sir,whatever their name is.
When you become a Disneylegend, is there something, some
way people have to address younow?
Mark Henn (03:04):
They just say, hey you.
Allen Wolf (03:07):
Okay, okay.
You decided to become ananimator at age seven after
watching a reissue ofCinderella.
What about that experiencesparked that idea?
Mark Henn (03:19):
Cinderella was one of the first films, feature films
that I remember seeing as asmall boy.
It was just magic in my mind.
The other film that I saw atthe around the same time was The
Reluctant Dragon, which was thefilm that Walt created around
the 1940s to pull the curtainback to show people how animated
(03:39):
films were done at the studio.
And he's looking over uh WardKimball's shoulder as he's
finishing a drawing of Goofy,and Ward says, You want to see
it move?
And he takes this one drawing,puts it on a stack of drawings,
starts flipping it, and Goofycame to life.
As and I was just, I washooked.
(04:00):
So the combination of those twofilms kind of laid the
groundwork for my decision as asmall boy growing up in Ohio to
tell people when they'd ask, sowhat do you want to be when you
grow up?
I'd say, I'd like to be aDisney animator.
And that would they'd say,that's nice.
Allen Wolf (04:17):
Well, you faced multiple rejections from Disney
before getting in.
And one rejection letter said,You didn't have what it took to
travel the narrow roads thattheir animators travel.
Did that fuel yourdetermination?
Mark Henn (04:33):
That was the third and final official rejection
from the studio.
The first portfolio I sent in,they expressed an interest.
They saw something in my work,told me what I needed to do,
what I needed to improve on.
I sent a second portfolio in,thinking I had met those
improvements.
But they said, no, you justneed to stay in school and
(04:54):
become a better artist.
So by the time I got to thatthird portfolio, I thought for
sure I had nailed everythingthat they wanted me to do.
And then that was theirresponse.
And it just kind of like Ilooked into two schools, two art
schools.
I told myself I need to get abetter art education.
So I applied to a school inColorado, the uh Rocky Mountain
(05:15):
School of Art, it was called.
Founded the back advertisementin the back of an art magazine.
But a friend of mine in highschool had given me the catalog
California Institute of the Artshere in Valencia after that
third rejection.
Basically, with the sameportfolio that the studio had
rejected, redid a few littlethings, and I sent that off to
both schools, the Rocky MountainSchool in Colorado and uh
(05:37):
CalArts here in California, andthen just sat back and waited to
get hopefully a positiveresponse.
And when I got the letter fromCalArts, I didn't get any
further than the first wordwhich said, Congratulations.
So I was like, yay! So got on aTWA flight direct from Dayton,
Ohio to Los Angeles and kind ofhad my Mary Tyler Moore moment
(05:59):
as I arrived in Los Angeles in adownpour of rain.
And everybody on the flyawaybus as I was riding up, they
were all grumping and grouchingand you know the traffic and the
rain.
And I was just like, wow, I'min Los Angeles.
Allen Wolf (06:14):
At CalArt, you studied alongside future legends
like John Lassiter and JoeRanft.
What was that creativeenvironment like?
Mark Henn (06:23):
We were the class I was in was the fourth year of
the character program.
So John Lassiter was in hisfourth year, my first year, but
Joe Ramft and I, we were in thesame class.
So we were the largest classthat they had had at that point.
There was about maybe 30 of us.
You know, it was neat to be ina room with a bunch of people
(06:44):
that were very like-minded interms of their goals and their
dreams of working in theindustry.
But specifically, I thinkworking for Disney, we all had
these amazing teachers, whichwere all former Disney
animators, Disney artists.
Jack Hanna was the departmenthead, and he was, of course,
known for being the Donald Duckshort director.
(07:05):
We were all like sponges.
Anything and everything wecould learn from them was kind
of the agenda for our class.
A lot of what we had to do waskind of self-learning, and they
kind of just guided us along theway, particularly in the
animation class.
That was kind of trial anderror on our own and you know,
learning from others.
Allen Wolf (07:24):
Now, Disney dubbed you as the princess guy.
How do you feel about thattitle?
Mark Henn (07:30):
It's meant very respectfully, very lovingly, and
I embrace it.
It's just kind of what's, youknow, my lot in terms of you
know being cast on characters.
People have asked over theyears why why I had done so
many.
And I'm thinking, well, whenyou really look back over my
career, most of the charactersthat I've done are the leading
(07:51):
characters.
So I've done a lot of dogs andcats, like an Oliver and Company
and the Great Mouse, thedetective.
They I handled a lot of thelead characters.
And I think over time I'velearned that I think they have
arguably the most interestingjourney, the heroes and the
leading characters.
We just happen to have told alot of stories that were chosen
(08:11):
to be told that involve aleading lady.
And for whatever reason, thedirectors on those films have
felt um my approach, mysensibilities have worked best
for them.
So, but like on Mulan, Istarted with animating Mulan,
but then the directors came tome and said, you know, her
father is equally important tothis relationship, and we'd like
(08:34):
you to also do his animate him.
So I also animated her fatherbecause that relationship was
kind of the emotional uh heartand soul of the movie Mulan.
This kind of the way thingshave uh fallen into my lap as
far as being cast.
Allen Wolf (08:50):
What do you think makes a compelling Disney
princess from an animator'sperspective?
Mark Henn (08:56):
Well, for me, one of the greatest challenges is
coming up with something uniquefor each one because I did
Ariel, Belle, and Jasmine, oneright after the other, right
after the other.
So the challenge with any ofthe characters, regardless if
it's a princess or a lion or amouse, what is that character?
What is that uniquepersonality, and how do I,
through my animation, make themstand out as unique?
(09:19):
How do I make Belle differentthan Ariel?
How do I make Jasmine differentthan Belle?
And those are the greatchallenges for the animators
because it is, it's an actingjob being an animator.
It's just you don't see me onstage, you see what I'm able to
draw on the screen instead.
Allen Wolf (09:35):
What does that process look like for developing
those character traits?
Mark Henn (09:39):
It varies a little bit from production to
production.
For example, we had uh kind ofa character design retreat on uh
Princess and the Frog, and allwe did that whole weekend was
sit in a room and we took eachcharacter one by one, and
everybody contributed ideas,sketches.
And again, the director'sgoing, I like this, I don't like
(10:00):
this, I like this.
So it was a really amazingweekend, something we hadn't
done on other films, but it wasthe same idea of just you know,
kind of focusing, in this case,just kind of focusing on, you
know, character designspecifically.
So, regardless of who I wascast to do, Tiana, of course,
but we all chipped in and lookedat you know drawings of
(10:20):
Facilier and Lewis theAlligator, and it was a really
fun weekend to that we spentdeveloping that.
But a certain point, you know,the directors and the producers
have to say that's it.
So, for example, on uh LionKing, I had been doing, we had,
you know, a lot of uh expertscome in to look at a lot of
(10:40):
footage of lions and things.
I was just doing drawing afterdrawing after drawing, and I
flew out here for a meeting, andI, you know, had a board of my
Simba sketches up and JeffreyKatzenberg at at some point that
was part of the agenda for themeeting.
He just went through and waslike, mm-hmm, okay, yeah, all
right.
And Don Hahn turned to me andsaid, I think you just got Simba
(11:02):
approved.
So it was like arguably one ofthe fastest design approvals I
think I'd ever experienced.
That's basically the way ithappens.
So it's it's verycollaborative.
You work with a lot ofincredibly talented people, you
do a lot of research on yourown.
They've done a lot of researchof their own, and you take what
they've learned, you do theresearch yourself, take what
(11:23):
you've learned, and you just,you know, it's kind of you put
it all together and and puttogether a design and hopefully
create a memorable character.
Allen Wolf (11:32):
You modeled Jasmine after your sister Beth.
Can you tell us about usingother personal references in
your work and how that impactedthe character's development?
Mark Henn (11:43):
Jasmine was number three in a row for me.
I kind of hit an artist blockin terms of just finding the
look of Jasmine.
Originally, I was scheduled, Iwas asked to animate Aladdin's
mother, usually a pregnant pausethere, because you kind of go,
I don't remember Aladdin'smother in the movie.
Well, that's right, because wehad what's very common in our
(12:07):
process, uh major storymeltdown, Black Monday, in fact.
This not working, and Jeffreysaid no, put the brakes on, said
we gotta we gotta rethink this.
And how finished was the filmat that point?
Oh, just story reels.
I see.
Okay.
If you're gonna make changeslike that, that's the best time
to do it.
It's it's a little painful, butit's important.
(12:28):
So it was Aladdin's mother wasout, and Jasmine's role got
bigger as a result.
And so the directors came to meand said, We'd like you to, you
know, take over working onJasmine, so it was great.
Visually, I was having a hardtime coming up with her look.
And at that point, EricGoldberg had joined the studio,
and of course, he was impressingeverybody with his Al
(12:49):
Hirschfeld approach with the wayhe handled the genie.
So there was that influencegoing on.
I just was having a hard timegetting a hook on how Jasmine
looked.
But eventually I reached intomy hip pocket and pulled out my
wallet, and I got thinking, Iwas like, okay, well, Jasmine's
kind of this age.
And uh I just got thinkingabout it, and I pulled out the
(13:10):
picture of my sister's highschool graduation photo that I
had in my wallet, Beth.
And I was just like, you know,there's there's something there.
And I started using that then.
That kind of got me over thatartistic hump.
It worked really well.
And after the movie came out,she's an excellent seamstress.
So she made herself a jasminecostume and a wig and laid down
(13:31):
on some pillows and had herpicture taken, and it was just
like jasmine in the flesh.
Oh, yeah.
As good, if not better, thanyou know, some of the park
characters.
She is jasmine, so but in termsof other you accumulate uh a
body of memories as you grow up.
And you know, you and I bothgrew up in in the Ohio area,
(13:54):
pretty normal Americana, youknow, type of an upbringing.
But there's a lot ofexperiences that I'm sure you
have, and as you bring to yourwork that I go back to with my
own work.
One one example, I swam a lotwhen I was a kid.
I was on a swim team from likeage eight up through about my
sophomore year in high school.
(14:14):
I was a competitive swimmer, soI spent a lot of time in a
pool.
And on Milan, we had that greatsequence where she sneaks off
to get a bath, wash away thegrit and grime of her training
that particular day.
So she goes off, she was intothe water.
I remember experiencing this, Iremember seeing this countless
times when I was in a pool.
(14:35):
That's what I called the doubledip, where you would jump in,
you'd come out of the water,you'd flip your hair up, the
hair would go in the crazything, and then you'd do what I
called the double dip, where youjust gently lock raw back and
just you know, brush the hairout of your uh face.
I saw that so many times andexperienced that when I was in a
(14:57):
pool.
I said, Well, I gotta do that.
Well, the director, he thoughtit was he didn't understand it.
He was like, I I don't getthis.
And I said, Trust me, it's it'sright.
And I kind of had to put myfoot down and he wanted me to
change it, and I kind of had tosay no.
So it stayed in something thatyou you start digging through
the files of your memoriesgrowing up and things you
(15:18):
experience, things you see.
And that was one in particularthat I I remember very vividly
because I I lived it for so manyyears.
Allen Wolf (15:27):
There's been an ongoing discussion about body
representation in Disney films,with critics pointing out that
many Disney princesses haveunrealistic proportions, like
extremely small waists, largeeyes, idealized features.
As the animator responsible forbringing those characters to
life, how do you balancecreating appealing character
(15:48):
designs with being mindful ofthe body image messages being
sent to young audiences?
Mark Henn (15:54):
Yes, I've I've heard that.
And frankly, I I don't thinkabout it.
I mean, I think about what'sthe most appealing design for
that particular character.
Our society's a little schizoright now with if you're
considered heavy or overweight,they kind of encourage people to
go on a diet and you know behealthy.
(16:16):
And yet on the other hand,they're saying be who you are,
you know, and if you're on theheavier side, be your healthiest
heaviness.
I mean, it there's kind of a soyou can't win in one sense.
So decisions just have to bemade in terms of just what we at
the studio and the the thedirectors and everybody
involved, we just feel is themost appealing design for these
(16:40):
characters.
I don't let it, you know, weighon me too heavily.
I I've heard those arguments.
Like I said, it's kind of youcan't win, you're never gonna
please everybody.
So we have to basically pleaseourselves as filmmakers first.
And hopefully that appeals toyou know most of our people in
our audience.
You're not gonna pleaseeverybody.
Allen Wolf (16:59):
Do you find that you have to kind of put those
criticisms aside to have morefreedom?
Mark Henn (17:05):
And when you're developing something, in one
sense, we're making the film forourselves first.
We make films that we findappealing, that we would, you
know, go see.
Because if you start listeningto all the outside voices and,
you know, telling you this,telling you that, you're never
going to get anything done.
There's kind of a quality tofilmmaking that, you know, the
(17:26):
buck stops with the directorsand the producer.
They m have the final decision.
And, you know, we're verysensitive to doing our research,
doing our due diligence, youknow, like with Moana,
Pocahontas.
I mean, there was a lot ofeffort, a lot of research to
partner with uh Native Americanson Pocahontas to understand,
you know, culturally what'sright.
(17:47):
So we weren't doing things thatwere just stereotypical.
Same with the research forMoana.
The director spent, you know,rough job off to the South
Pacific to uh uh do a lot ofresearch.
But it was all intended to makesure that not only how the
characters looked, but you know,how they acted and worlds that
(18:07):
we were creating were correct asfar as that we could make them
with regards to the the needs ofthe story.
Allen Wolf (18:14):
Your directorial debut, John Henry, won awards,
but had a troubled release dueto Disney's concerns about
potentially offending audiences.
Can you talk about thatexperience and what the film
meant to you?
Mark Henn (18:27):
It goes under the category of it was a passion
project, the story of JohnHenry, a song and all that was
something I grew up with.
And it just was one of myfavorite tall tales and legends.
I had spent a lot of timehaving conversations with myself
to say, well, if you're gonnado this, you know, you gotta
just you gotta do it.
You just have to kind of do it.
(18:48):
I just started developing it.
I wrote an outline, I starteddoing some boards, and then I
slowly incorporated people likeI had a couple of friends in
Florida that I knew wereinterested in story and writing.
After I wrote an outline, Iapproached them with it and they
were eager and excited, so theycame on board and it just very
gradually started to grow.
(19:08):
I worked with a gal indevelopment in Burbank, and I
told her, I said, I really don'twant anybody to know about this
yet.
And she said, Fine, I'll gladlyhelp you.
But she's she said, when youget to a point where I feel like
it's ready to pitch to Peterand Tom, you know, will you
trust me?
And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
So that's what we did.
(19:28):
I don't know how many months wespent, you know, developing,
writing, boarding.
And then we got to a pointwhere she said, I think it's
time to pitch it to uh Peter andTom.
So I was out here for abusiness trip, pitched it to
Peter and Tom, and they bothloved it.
They just they just loved it.
And there was nothing likehaving the might of the studio
(19:49):
behind you when you've got aproject like that, and they
they're on board with it, andthings really just took off
after that.
We had a it was one of the bestexperiences I had at this
working at the studio.
It was just a great experience.
Unfortunately, for reasonsstill unknown to me, the studio
kind of buried it.
Nationally, they made Februaryuh Black History Month.
(20:12):
And so somebody at the studio,and I still don't know who it
was, came up with the idea ofdoing a short live-action film
uh as part of a package toenvironments, and they put this
thing together.
It was just like a two orthree-minute little film, and it
ends with a shot of JohnHenry's hammer in a display
case, and it was like, you know,an honor of Black History
(20:34):
Month, the Walt Disney Companyis proud to present John Henry,
and that's the way it was goingto be released in the theaters,
hopefully.
And it was beautiful, it wasreally a very lovely, very well
done, and it disappeared afterthat.
It never happened.
And and I was only told thatwhoever was behind the the
(20:55):
live-action film evidentlystepped on some toes by you know
exceeding their pay grade orwhatever and doing this.
And they they just kind ofburied it.
So we were able to submit JohnHenry to several film festivals
and it won a couple of awards.
But then Disney Education got ahold of it.
They kind of created anin-classroom package.
(21:18):
It kind of had a second lifevia the Disney Education wing.
And I've had a lot of people,surprisingly, a lot of people
have come up to me and said thatthat's you know, either theirs
or their children's favoriteshorts that Disney's ever done.
You know, a couple years ago,Disney Animation put together
its own shorts collection, justlike Pixar had put together a
(21:40):
shorts collection and releasedit on DVD.
John Henry was included onthat, and they had a lot of us
do little intros for each of ourshorts.
Allen Wolf (21:49):
You witnessed Disney's evolution from the dark
period of the early 80s throughthe Renaissance and then into
the modern CG area.
What were the most significantchanges you observed in
storytelling and animationtechniques?
Mark Henn (22:04):
Ah, the dark days.
When I when I arrived at thestudio, it was yeah, the the
dust hadn't settled because whenI came back out to California
for my second year at CalArts,the water cooler talk was, Did
you hear about Don Bluth?
And they all left.
They quit.
He took half of the animators,and that that was like so.
(22:26):
I started my second year atCalArts, knowing that that had
just recently happened at thestudio, which you know was a
major, major blow.
They were in the Fox and theHound was in production.
Kind of in our own minds, Ithink, thought, well, you know,
maybe there'll be four jobsavailable.
Um since a lot of people left.
(22:47):
And so there was some tensionsthere, and the dust was still
kind of settling as you know, wewere trying to kind of find our
way.
And uh, you know, we we muscledour way through, you know,
finishing up the fox and thehound.
And then after that, the bigthe big project that Frank and
Ollie had also been involvedwith initially and Milled uh was
the black cauldron.
You just you know kind of putyour head down and did the job
(23:11):
you were asked to do.
Thankfully, for me personally,the bright light in that those
dark days, if you want to callit that, was uh Bernie
Mattenson, and started at thestudio in 1953.
So he was kind of that thatintermediate generation between
the nine old men and then mygeneration.
(23:32):
He was kind of that filler, buthe was kind of by himself.
But he was very much asupporter of our generation, and
he was willing to work with us,and he came up with because he
had had, you know, I think hehad butted heads with some of
the other folks as well, but hecame up with the Mickey's
Christmas Carol idea, and thatwas essentially Bernie and a
(23:53):
whole group of uh youngerartists.
So Bernie pulled me out.
I had done a Mickey uhanimation test for to get a
promotion, and he was part ofthe review board and he saw it
and he liked it.
He approached me and said, Ithink you could handle Mickey
Mouse.
So my first animationassignment as an animator for
the studio was animating MickeyMouse, which I always thought
(24:16):
was incredibly special.
Bernie was very instrumental inworking and developing a lot of
our generation because afterMickey's Christmas Carol, he and
Ron and John, who had been kindof stuck in story Purgatory on
Black Cauldron until they were,you know, removed.
He took them on and theystarted developing the Great
Mouse detective, Basil at BakerStreet.
(24:38):
And from that point on, thingsstarted to slowly turn around.
Eventually, the technology, themajor change, of course, was
after Home on the Range, whichwas supposed to be our last
hand-drawn film.
You could kind of see thewriting on the wall as Pixar was
becoming those types of movies.
Computer films were becomingthe it movies.
The writing was on the wallthat we were going to have to do
(25:00):
that.
But the neat thing is that'sjust a tool change.
The philosophy of thestorytelling, character
development, all of those kindof things hasn't really changed
because what's really fun is asyou talk to people at the
studio, more often than not, youknow, you hear the same story,
different variations, but it'sthe same story how they grew up
(25:22):
and they wanted to come and workfor Disney and be a Disney
animator or layout artist orwhatever the job is.
There was a a dream to work forDisney.
And I think that's that's beenkey to you know continuing the
success and the legacy thatwe've had.
Allen Wolf (25:39):
Disney Animation has faced some recent box office
challenges with films likeStrange World and Wish Not
Performing as expected.
Well, earlier successes likeFrozen and Milana were massive
hits.
From your perspective, assomeone who helped define
Disney's golden age ofanimation, what do you think
(26:00):
makes the difference between ananimated film that resonates
with audiences and one thatdoesn't?
Mark Henn (26:05):
You ask these simple questions.
You know, if I had the answer,I, you know, I I every film
would be uh wonderful.
I mean, for us at the studio,it's always been about story and
character.
And hopefully you you create astory that is compelling, but
then it's populated withcharacters that people can
(26:28):
identify with, that people cansay, I know what that character
is thinking, and they can kindof get in and in the vehicle
with them and kind of go on thesame journey.
That's that's still always thegoal, and to try to find a
compelling story and populate itwith, you know, appealing,
compelling characters as wellthat audiences can identify
(26:48):
with.
You know, when you have that,that seems to be part of the
formulas when the films are arebigger successes.
And it could be any number ofthings.
And there's been several casesthat I've known of where I get
fan letters, you know, frompeople that talk about how much
these characters mean to them orhave gotten them through a hard
(27:09):
time, a difficult time.
There was a famous uh letter.
It was actually written toMichael Eisner, I believe, after
uh Beauty and the Beast.
And it was from a mother onbehalf of her daughter who said
that, you know, the little girlwas having doubts about herself,
low esteem, because she was abrunette, and all of her friends
and the popular girls wereblondes, no offense to blondes.
(27:31):
But in her mind, she felt heresteem was very low because she
wasn't a blonde, blue-eyed girl.
And then Beauty and the Beastcame out, and Belle is a
brunette, and she was the motherwrote how that just 180 her
daughter's self-esteem, and youknow, I gave her something to to
hang on to.
(27:51):
And I personally have hadseveral letters after Princess
and the Frog from mothers sayingI threw a birthday party for my
my little girl, these areAfrican American mothers saying
how much it meant for herdaughter to see a Disney
princess that looked like her.
Wow.
You know, that kind of gets meall choked up even now.
(28:12):
But it just you never know whatwhat it's gonna take.
It's a Disney princess or ifit's Simba.
You know, we we hear a lot ofstories and then letters, fan
letters, um, explaining you knowwhat these films meet to us.
And then you go to D23convention and you meet the
public, you know, the your fansin person.
(28:33):
And for me, I always hear theone of the nicest compliments is
you animated my childhood.
And you know, you and I, youand I grew up, Frank and Ollie
animated my childhood, and theyanimated the things that
inspired me and wanted me to dothis.
And now I'm hearing that, and Ifeel very old.
But um I don't want to say it'suh a gamble, but you know, we
(29:00):
have no way of knowing until thefilms come out because usually
it's a director, story person.
Somebody comes in and says,I've got an idea for a film, and
this is my vision for it.
And this if the studio agrees,then they you know they get the
opportunity to execute that thatvision.
And sometimes it worksfabulous, and sometimes it's not
(29:21):
as successful, but that'sthat's just kind of the way it
way it goes.
There's a lot of cases whereover time what was initially not
successful, Pinocchio was notsuccessful, Fantasia.
There were a lot of quote flopsearly in the Disney films for a
variety of different reasons.
I mean, the war was going on,and you know, they lost their
(29:41):
European market and things likethat.
But a lot of considered flopsthen are now considered classics
and masterpieces.
So and sometimes, you know,it's just maybe it's just a
matter of time.
And people get a second look atit and go, you know, it's
actually pretty good.
Allen Wolf (29:56):
You mentioned D23.
At the 2024 D23 event, all fivevoice actresses of your Disney
princesses appeared together tohonor you.
What was that like seeing theimpact of your work celebrated?
Mark Henn (30:12):
Oh, I I I still pinch myself that it it's been a year
ago now.
We've we've exceeded a year.
Allen Wolf (30:19):
Mark Henn is a brilliant animator with
overflowing kindness andloyalty.
He doesn't just designcharacters on Peter.
He creates images infused withpassion, vulnerability, and
authenticity that I connect withpeople for generations.
Mark Henn (30:43):
I've stayed in touch.
Uh, we run into each other, acouple of them every so often,
Jody and Paige.
I hadn't seen Linda for awhile.
I was blown away.
The same thing happened when Iwas received my Windsor McKay
Award, Ming Na when introducedme.
And I again had the same impactbecause I didn't know she was
going to do that.
It meant so much to me for herto take the time to do that, and
(31:06):
then to see her part of thisgroup as well.
To be there on stage with me,thankfully, because I was so
nervous.
I was I was very nervous, andum, they've met some.
So much.
And you know, these voiceactors contribute a lot to the
characters.
It's a part of them.
It's a part of me.
You know, the story artists,the director.
And so very, again, verycollaborative in how these
(31:29):
characters come to life.
It meant a lot.
It just it's it's hard toexpress, but it it meant it
meant a lot to me to have themthere.
Allen Wolf (31:36):
What has your spiritual journey looked like?
Mark Henn (31:39):
Well, you know, I was thinking about this this
morning.
I was at a men's breakfast atchurch on Saturday, and uh the
speaker made a quote, forget whohe quoted, but I th it was a
good quote because he said hestole it from somebody because
he thought it was good.
How that God connects the dots,but that God also makes the
dots.
He said that was really stuckwith him, and he meant shared
(32:02):
that with us at the men'sbreakfast.
And I was like, yeah, thatreally makes a lot of sense.
And I as I at this point in mylife and my career, and I look
back first at, you know, how Godconnected the dots, but then I
realized, you know, how God madethose dots along the way.
Everything going back to, youknow, what initially got me
(32:22):
excited about Disney animation,wanting to be an animator, you
know, that process.
I was saved when I was incollege.
I got a phone call from uh tothis day.
I have no idea how what mycontact was with them, but it
was a campus crusade.
A young man called me and said,I'd like to come over and talk
with you.
Could I do that?
I said, sure.
(32:42):
But as I look back and kind oftry to analyze it a little bit,
I realized at that point in mylife, first year in college, I
was away from home and thinkingabout how I was gonna, you know,
run my life and you know what Ithought would be best and what
I which included still workingfor Disney, but you know, it was
all about my way of doingthings.
And then I get this phone call.
(33:03):
I grew up going to church.
That was it was just a normalpart of you know, growing up in
southwestern Ohio, middle classAmerica.
You know, I didn't fullyunderstand, you know, what it
was, what Christ's sacrificemeant, and God's forgiveness was
all about.
So this person walked methrough that.
That's when God opened my eyesand my heart.
You know, there's an image,there's a bridge, God over here,
(33:25):
man over here, and you know,Christ is that bridge to, you
know, restore that relationshipthat was for the first time
explained to me.
And I was in the light bulb,you know, it clicked in my head.
I accepted Christ.
It's been a good journey.
I can't say that it hasn't beenwithout bumps along the way,
and nobody can, but God has beenvery faithful.
(33:46):
And when I look back at thosedots that were connected, and
then think about the fact thatGod made those dots, it just
kind of blows me away to thinkjust how that all came together.
And I'm thinking, gosh, how didI get through that without him?
And even if I didn't, you know,always acknowledge that it was
him behind the scenes, it was.
I said I've learned a lot, I'vemade mistakes, but God has
(34:08):
always been very faithful.
And, you know, like I said, 43years of doing what I've loved
to do, what I dreamt of doing asa small boy to start with is
just certainly God connectingdots and creating those dots
along the way.
How has your faith impactedwhat you do?
First and foremost is doingwhatever you do with excellence.
(34:29):
You know, there's the verseabout whatever you do in word or
deed, you know, doing it untothe Lord.
And I think, you know, that'salways been kind of foundational
for me.
It's just it's a level ofexcellence, it's a standard that
I think God expects of hispeople that love him to do their
very best at whatever they'reasked to do, whatever you're
asked to do, whatever yourprofession is, you know, just do
(34:50):
it heartily as to the Lord.
And that's always been, youknow, foundational for me first
and foremost, and just I alwaysfind myself saying, you know,
asking the Lord to let me, youknow, just represent him well as
much as I possibly can.
That's kind of where it allbegins.
You know, having theopportunity to be a Disney
animator, being the bestanimator I could possibly be.
(35:11):
I said it isn't a competition.
You know, I don't do thisalone.
There's, you know, hundreds ofincredibly talented artists that
I've worked with along the way.
I've been in a more of aleadership position than a lot,
just wanting to make sure I'm,you know, the work that I do is
excellent, that there's a levelof excellence that I think God
expects of us.
Allen Wolf (35:30):
How do you stay spiritually healthy while in the
role that you've had for solong?
Mark Henn (35:36):
You know, I used to try to start each day by, you
know, reading a verse or two uhin the Word, pray all the time.
I mean, there's no set time,and you can if you're walking
across to the lot, you can bepraying.
I mean, that's one of myfavorite things that I kind of
miss in retirement is taking alot walk, walking around the lot
and just again, just talkingwith the Lord and you know,
(35:59):
expressing my gratitude for youknow being having the
opportunity to work there.
I've had the opportunity toalso work with a lot of fellow
Christians, and we've had avariety of Bible studies across
over the years, just knowingthat you're not alone, that
there are other believers at thestudio that you can talk to and
share with.
It's about you know just livinga life that, you know, honoring
(36:20):
to the Lord as far as I'mconcerned.
Allen Wolf (36:22):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Mark Henn (36:26):
Well, I often think of the title uh King David had
that he was a man after God'sown heart.
And I suppose in one respectsuh I'd like to have that as part
of my legacy.
A good father, a good artist,and uh, man who loved God as
much as I possibly can.
I think that's as much as anyof us can expect.
(36:47):
You know, all the awards andaccolades are all gonna burn up
and you know it's not gonna be,you know, it's gonna go
somewhere, but it's not gonna gowith you to heaven, that's for
sure.
But if it represents a level ofexcellence of doing a job well
done, being thankful that uh Godhas allowed me to have this
career and people knowing aboutthat, I think that that's part
(37:09):
of the legacy as well.
Allen Wolf (37:10):
Well, thank you so much for being my guest and
sharing incredible stories,Mark.
Mark Henn (37:15):
Well, thank you for having me.
This has been fun.
I appreciate it.
Allen Wolf (37:19):
It's great to have you.
If you work in entertainment,check out our courses, groups,
and other resources available atnavigatinghollywood.org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links, and more at
navigatinghollywood.org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood Podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf, and I'ma filmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood helpsmedia professionals build
holistic, creative, andspiritual lives through this
podcast and discussion groups atthe major studios.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.org to
discover how you can getinvolved.
(01:42):
Today, we're joined byanimation legend Mark Henn, the
man behind some of Disney's mostbeloved characters.
Over his 43-year career at WaltDisney Animation Studios, Mark
became known as the Princess Guyfor his masterful work bringing
Disney's most iconic heroinesto life, such as Ariel from The
(02:06):
Little Mermaid, Belle fromBeauty and the Beast, Jasmine
from Aladdin, Young Simba fromThe Lion King, Mulan from Mulan,
and Princess Tiana from ThePrincess and the Frog.
His artistry helped define theDisney Renaissance era and
continues to inspire animatorsworldwide.
(02:27):
In 2013, Mark received theprestigious Windsor McKay Award
for lifetime achievement inanimation.
And in 2024, he was honored asa Disney legend.
Mark retired in 2023, butcontinues to be celebrated as
one of the most influentialcharacter animators of his
generation.
(02:48):
Welcome, Mark.
Mark Henn (02:50):
Wow.
Thank you, Allen.
Thanks for having me.
Allen Wolf (02:52):
Now, in England, when you're knighted, you have
to start calling someone Sir,whatever their name is.
When you become a Disneylegend, is there something, some
way people have to address younow?
Mark Henn (03:04):
They just say, hey you.
Allen Wolf (03:07):
Okay, okay.
You decided to become ananimator at age seven after
watching a reissue ofCinderella.
What about that experiencesparked that idea?
Mark Henn (03:19):
Cinderella was one of the first films, feature films
that I remember seeing as asmall boy.
It was just magic in my mind.
The other film that I saw atthe around the same time was The
Reluctant Dragon, which was thefilm that Walt created around
the 1940s to pull the curtainback to show people how animated
(03:39):
films were done at the studio.
And he's looking over uh WardKimball's shoulder as he's
finishing a drawing of Goofy,and Ward says, You want to see
it move?
And he takes this one drawing,puts it on a stack of drawings,
starts flipping it, and Goofycame to life.
As and I was just, I washooked.
(04:00):
So the combination of those twofilms kind of laid the
groundwork for my decision as asmall boy growing up in Ohio to
tell people when they'd ask, sowhat do you want to be when you
grow up?
I'd say, I'd like to be aDisney animator.
And that would they'd say,that's nice.
Allen Wolf (04:17):
Well, you faced multiple rejections from Disney
before getting in.
And one rejection letter said,You didn't have what it took to
travel the narrow roads thattheir animators travel.
Did that fuel yourdetermination?
Mark Henn (04:33):
That was the third and final official rejection
from the studio.
The first portfolio I sent in,they expressed an interest.
They saw something in my work,told me what I needed to do,
what I needed to improve on.
I sent a second portfolio in,thinking I had met those
improvements.
But they said, no, you justneed to stay in school and
(04:54):
become a better artist.
So by the time I got to thatthird portfolio, I thought for
sure I had nailed everythingthat they wanted me to do.
And then that was theirresponse.
And it just kind of like Ilooked into two schools, two art
schools.
I told myself I need to get abetter art education.
So I applied to a school inColorado, the uh Rocky Mountain
(05:15):
School of Art, it was called.
Founded the back advertisementin the back of an art magazine.
But a friend of mine in highschool had given me the catalog
California Institute of the Artshere in Valencia after that
third rejection.
Basically, with the sameportfolio that the studio had
rejected, redid a few littlethings, and I sent that off to
both schools, the Rocky MountainSchool in Colorado and uh
(05:37):
CalArts here in California, andthen just sat back and waited to
get hopefully a positiveresponse.
And when I got the letter fromCalArts, I didn't get any
further than the first wordwhich said, Congratulations.
So I was like, yay! So got on aTWA flight direct from Dayton,
Ohio to Los Angeles and kind ofhad my Mary Tyler Moore moment
(05:59):
as I arrived in Los Angeles in adownpour of rain.
And everybody on the flyawaybus as I was riding up, they
were all grumping and grouchingand you know the traffic and the
rain.
And I was just like, wow, I'min Los Angeles.
Allen Wolf (06:14):
At CalArt, you studied alongside future legends
like John Lassiter and JoeRanft.
What was that creativeenvironment like?
Mark Henn (06:23):
We were the class I was in was the fourth year of
the character program.
So John Lassiter was in hisfourth year, my first year, but
Joe Ramft and I, we were in thesame class.
So we were the largest classthat they had had at that point.
There was about maybe 30 of us.
You know, it was neat to be ina room with a bunch of people
(06:44):
that were very like-minded interms of their goals and their
dreams of working in theindustry.
But specifically, I thinkworking for Disney, we all had
these amazing teachers, whichwere all former Disney
animators, Disney artists.
Jack Hanna was the departmenthead, and he was, of course,
known for being the Donald Duckshort director.
(07:05):
We were all like sponges.
Anything and everything wecould learn from them was kind
of the agenda for our class.
A lot of what we had to do waskind of self-learning, and they
kind of just guided us along theway, particularly in the
animation class.
That was kind of trial anderror on our own and you know,
learning from others.
Allen Wolf (07:24):
Now, Disney dubbed you as the princess guy.
How do you feel about thattitle?
Mark Henn (07:30):
It's meant very respectfully, very lovingly, and
I embrace it.
It's just kind of what's, youknow, my lot in terms of you
know being cast on characters.
People have asked over theyears why why I had done so
many.
And I'm thinking, well, whenyou really look back over my
career, most of the charactersthat I've done are the leading
(07:51):
characters.
So I've done a lot of dogs andcats, like an Oliver and Company
and the Great Mouse, thedetective.
They I handled a lot of thelead characters.
And I think over time I'velearned that I think they have
arguably the most interestingjourney, the heroes and the
leading characters.
We just happen to have told alot of stories that were chosen
(08:11):
to be told that involve aleading lady.
And for whatever reason, thedirectors on those films have
felt um my approach, mysensibilities have worked best
for them.
So, but like on Mulan, Istarted with animating Mulan,
but then the directors came tome and said, you know, her
father is equally important tothis relationship, and we'd like
(08:34):
you to also do his animate him.
So I also animated her fatherbecause that relationship was
kind of the emotional uh heartand soul of the movie Mulan.
This kind of the way thingshave uh fallen into my lap as
far as being cast.
Allen Wolf (08:50):
What do you think makes a compelling Disney
princess from an animator'sperspective?
Mark Henn (08:56):
Well, for me, one of the greatest challenges is
coming up with something uniquefor each one because I did
Ariel, Belle, and Jasmine, oneright after the other, right
after the other.
So the challenge with any ofthe characters, regardless if
it's a princess or a lion or amouse, what is that character?
What is that uniquepersonality, and how do I,
through my animation, make themstand out as unique?
(09:19):
How do I make Belle differentthan Ariel?
How do I make Jasmine differentthan Belle?
And those are the greatchallenges for the animators
because it is, it's an actingjob being an animator.
It's just you don't see me onstage, you see what I'm able to
draw on the screen instead.
Allen Wolf (09:35):
What does that process look like for developing
those character traits?
Mark Henn (09:39):
It varies a little bit from production to
production.
For example, we had uh kind ofa character design retreat on uh
Princess and the Frog, and allwe did that whole weekend was
sit in a room and we took eachcharacter one by one, and
everybody contributed ideas,sketches.
And again, the director'sgoing, I like this, I don't like
(10:00):
this, I like this.
So it was a really amazingweekend, something we hadn't
done on other films, but it wasthe same idea of just you know,
kind of focusing, in this case,just kind of focusing on, you
know, character designspecifically.
So, regardless of who I wascast to do, Tiana, of course,
but we all chipped in and lookedat you know drawings of
(10:20):
Facilier and Lewis theAlligator, and it was a really
fun weekend to that we spentdeveloping that.
But a certain point, you know,the directors and the producers
have to say that's it.
So, for example, on uh LionKing, I had been doing, we had,
you know, a lot of uh expertscome in to look at a lot of
(10:40):
footage of lions and things.
I was just doing drawing afterdrawing after drawing, and I
flew out here for a meeting, andI, you know, had a board of my
Simba sketches up and JeffreyKatzenberg at at some point that
was part of the agenda for themeeting.
He just went through and waslike, mm-hmm, okay, yeah, all
right.
And Don Hahn turned to me andsaid, I think you just got Simba
(11:02):
approved.
So it was like arguably one ofthe fastest design approvals I
think I'd ever experienced.
That's basically the way ithappens.
So it's it's verycollaborative.
You work with a lot ofincredibly talented people, you
do a lot of research on yourown.
They've done a lot of researchof their own, and you take what
they've learned, you do theresearch yourself, take what
(11:23):
you've learned, and you just,you know, it's kind of you put
it all together and and puttogether a design and hopefully
create a memorable character.
Allen Wolf (11:32):
You modeled Jasmine after your sister Beth.
Can you tell us about usingother personal references in
your work and how that impactedthe character's development?
Mark Henn (11:43):
Jasmine was number three in a row for me.
I kind of hit an artist blockin terms of just finding the
look of Jasmine.
Originally, I was scheduled, Iwas asked to animate Aladdin's
mother, usually a pregnant pausethere, because you kind of go,
I don't remember Aladdin'smother in the movie.
Well, that's right, because wehad what's very common in our
(12:07):
process, uh major storymeltdown, Black Monday, in fact.
This not working, and Jeffreysaid no, put the brakes on, said
we gotta we gotta rethink this.
And how finished was the filmat that point?
Oh, just story reels.
I see.
Okay.
If you're gonna make changeslike that, that's the best time
to do it.
It's it's a little painful, butit's important.
(12:28):
So it was Aladdin's mother wasout, and Jasmine's role got
bigger as a result.
And so the directors came to meand said, We'd like you to, you
know, take over working onJasmine, so it was great.
Visually, I was having a hardtime coming up with her look.
And at that point, EricGoldberg had joined the studio,
and of course, he was impressingeverybody with his Al
(12:49):
Hirschfeld approach with the wayhe handled the genie.
So there was that influencegoing on.
I just was having a hard timegetting a hook on how Jasmine
looked.
But eventually I reached intomy hip pocket and pulled out my
wallet, and I got thinking, Iwas like, okay, well, Jasmine's
kind of this age.
And uh I just got thinkingabout it, and I pulled out the
(13:10):
picture of my sister's highschool graduation photo that I
had in my wallet, Beth.
And I was just like, you know,there's there's something there.
And I started using that then.
That kind of got me over thatartistic hump.
It worked really well.
And after the movie came out,she's an excellent seamstress.
So she made herself a jasminecostume and a wig and laid down
(13:31):
on some pillows and had herpicture taken, and it was just
like jasmine in the flesh.
Oh, yeah.
As good, if not better, thanyou know, some of the park
characters.
She is jasmine, so but in termsof other you accumulate uh a
body of memories as you grow up.
And you know, you and I bothgrew up in in the Ohio area,
(13:54):
pretty normal Americana, youknow, type of an upbringing.
But there's a lot ofexperiences that I'm sure you
have, and as you bring to yourwork that I go back to with my
own work.
One one example, I swam a lotwhen I was a kid.
I was on a swim team from likeage eight up through about my
sophomore year in high school.
(14:14):
I was a competitive swimmer, soI spent a lot of time in a
pool.
And on Milan, we had that greatsequence where she sneaks off
to get a bath, wash away thegrit and grime of her training
that particular day.
So she goes off, she was intothe water.
I remember experiencing this, Iremember seeing this countless
times when I was in a pool.
(14:35):
That's what I called the doubledip, where you would jump in,
you'd come out of the water,you'd flip your hair up, the
hair would go in the crazything, and then you'd do what I
called the double dip, where youjust gently lock raw back and
just you know, brush the hairout of your uh face.
I saw that so many times andexperienced that when I was in a
(14:57):
pool.
I said, Well, I gotta do that.
Well, the director, he thoughtit was he didn't understand it.
He was like, I I don't getthis.
And I said, Trust me, it's it'sright.
And I kind of had to put myfoot down and he wanted me to
change it, and I kind of had tosay no.
So it stayed in something thatyou you start digging through
the files of your memoriesgrowing up and things you
(15:18):
experience, things you see.
And that was one in particularthat I I remember very vividly
because I I lived it for so manyyears.
Allen Wolf (15:27):
There's been an ongoing discussion about body
representation in Disney films,with critics pointing out that
many Disney princesses haveunrealistic proportions, like
extremely small waists, largeeyes, idealized features.
As the animator responsible forbringing those characters to
life, how do you balancecreating appealing character
(15:48):
designs with being mindful ofthe body image messages being
sent to young audiences?
Mark Henn (15:54):
Yes, I've I've heard that.
And frankly, I I don't thinkabout it.
I mean, I think about what'sthe most appealing design for
that particular character.
Our society's a little schizoright now with if you're
considered heavy or overweight,they kind of encourage people to
go on a diet and you know behealthy.
(16:16):
And yet on the other hand,they're saying be who you are,
you know, and if you're on theheavier side, be your healthiest
heaviness.
I mean, it there's kind of a soyou can't win in one sense.
So decisions just have to bemade in terms of just what we at
the studio and the the thedirectors and everybody
involved, we just feel is themost appealing design for these
(16:40):
characters.
I don't let it, you know, weighon me too heavily.
I I've heard those arguments.
Like I said, it's kind of youcan't win, you're never gonna
please everybody.
So we have to basically pleaseourselves as filmmakers first.
And hopefully that appeals toyou know most of our people in
our audience.
You're not gonna pleaseeverybody.
Allen Wolf (16:59):
Do you find that you have to kind of put those
criticisms aside to have morefreedom?
Mark Henn (17:05):
And when you're developing something, in one
sense, we're making the film forourselves first.
We make films that we findappealing, that we would, you
know, go see.
Because if you start listeningto all the outside voices and,
you know, telling you this,telling you that, you're never
going to get anything done.
There's kind of a quality tofilmmaking that, you know, the
(17:26):
buck stops with the directorsand the producer.
They m have the final decision.
And, you know, we're verysensitive to doing our research,
doing our due diligence, youknow, like with Moana,
Pocahontas.
I mean, there was a lot ofeffort, a lot of research to
partner with uh Native Americanson Pocahontas to understand,
you know, culturally what'sright.
(17:47):
So we weren't doing things thatwere just stereotypical.
Same with the research forMoana.
The director spent, you know,rough job off to the South
Pacific to uh uh do a lot ofresearch.
But it was all intended to makesure that not only how the
characters looked, but you know,how they acted and worlds that
(18:07):
we were creating were correct asfar as that we could make them
with regards to the the needs ofthe story.
Allen Wolf (18:14):
Your directorial debut, John Henry, won awards,
but had a troubled release dueto Disney's concerns about
potentially offending audiences.
Can you talk about thatexperience and what the film
meant to you?
Mark Henn (18:27):
It goes under the category of it was a passion
project, the story of JohnHenry, a song and all that was
something I grew up with.
And it just was one of myfavorite tall tales and legends.
I had spent a lot of timehaving conversations with myself
to say, well, if you're gonnado this, you know, you gotta
just you gotta do it.
You just have to kind of do it.
(18:48):
I just started developing it.
I wrote an outline, I starteddoing some boards, and then I
slowly incorporated people likeI had a couple of friends in
Florida that I knew wereinterested in story and writing.
After I wrote an outline, Iapproached them with it and they
were eager and excited, so theycame on board and it just very
gradually started to grow.
(19:08):
I worked with a gal indevelopment in Burbank, and I
told her, I said, I really don'twant anybody to know about this
yet.
And she said, Fine, I'll gladlyhelp you.
But she's she said, when youget to a point where I feel like
it's ready to pitch to Peterand Tom, you know, will you
trust me?
And I'm like, yes, absolutely.
So that's what we did.
(19:28):
I don't know how many months wespent, you know, developing,
writing, boarding.
And then we got to a pointwhere she said, I think it's
time to pitch it to uh Peter andTom.
So I was out here for abusiness trip, pitched it to
Peter and Tom, and they bothloved it.
They just they just loved it.
And there was nothing likehaving the might of the studio
(19:49):
behind you when you've got aproject like that, and they
they're on board with it, andthings really just took off
after that.
We had a it was one of the bestexperiences I had at this
working at the studio.
It was just a great experience.
Unfortunately, for reasonsstill unknown to me, the studio
kind of buried it.
Nationally, they made Februaryuh Black History Month.
(20:12):
And so somebody at the studio,and I still don't know who it
was, came up with the idea ofdoing a short live-action film
uh as part of a package toenvironments, and they put this
thing together.
It was just like a two orthree-minute little film, and it
ends with a shot of JohnHenry's hammer in a display
case, and it was like, you know,an honor of Black History
(20:34):
Month, the Walt Disney Companyis proud to present John Henry,
and that's the way it was goingto be released in the theaters,
hopefully.
And it was beautiful, it wasreally a very lovely, very well
done, and it disappeared afterthat.
It never happened.
And and I was only told thatwhoever was behind the the
(20:55):
live-action film evidentlystepped on some toes by you know
exceeding their pay grade orwhatever and doing this.
And they they just kind ofburied it.
So we were able to submit JohnHenry to several film festivals
and it won a couple of awards.
But then Disney Education got ahold of it.
They kind of created anin-classroom package.
(21:18):
It kind of had a second lifevia the Disney Education wing.
And I've had a lot of people,surprisingly, a lot of people
have come up to me and said thatthat's you know, either theirs
or their children's favoriteshorts that Disney's ever done.
You know, a couple years ago,Disney Animation put together
its own shorts collection, justlike Pixar had put together a
(21:40):
shorts collection and releasedit on DVD.
John Henry was included onthat, and they had a lot of us
do little intros for each of ourshorts.
Allen Wolf (21:49):
You witnessed Disney's evolution from the dark
period of the early 80s throughthe Renaissance and then into
the modern CG area.
What were the most significantchanges you observed in
storytelling and animationtechniques?
Mark Henn (22:04):
Ah, the dark days.
When I when I arrived at thestudio, it was yeah, the the
dust hadn't settled because whenI came back out to California
for my second year at CalArts,the water cooler talk was, Did
you hear about Don Bluth?
And they all left.
They quit.
He took half of the animators,and that that was like so.
(22:26):
I started my second year atCalArts, knowing that that had
just recently happened at thestudio, which you know was a
major, major blow.
They were in the Fox and theHound was in production.
Kind of in our own minds, Ithink, thought, well, you know,
maybe there'll be four jobsavailable.
Um since a lot of people left.
(22:47):
And so there was some tensionsthere, and the dust was still
kind of settling as you know, wewere trying to kind of find our
way.
And uh, you know, we we muscledour way through, you know,
finishing up the fox and thehound.
And then after that, the bigthe big project that Frank and
Ollie had also been involvedwith initially and Milled uh was
the black cauldron.
You just you know kind of putyour head down and did the job
(23:11):
you were asked to do.
Thankfully, for me personally,the bright light in that those
dark days, if you want to callit that, was uh Bernie
Mattenson, and started at thestudio in 1953.
So he was kind of that thatintermediate generation between
the nine old men and then mygeneration.
(23:32):
He was kind of that filler, buthe was kind of by himself.
But he was very much asupporter of our generation, and
he was willing to work with us,and he came up with because he
had had, you know, I think hehad butted heads with some of
the other folks as well, but hecame up with the Mickey's
Christmas Carol idea, and thatwas essentially Bernie and a
(23:53):
whole group of uh youngerartists.
So Bernie pulled me out.
I had done a Mickey uhanimation test for to get a
promotion, and he was part ofthe review board and he saw it
and he liked it.
He approached me and said, Ithink you could handle Mickey
Mouse.
So my first animationassignment as an animator for
the studio was animating MickeyMouse, which I always thought
(24:16):
was incredibly special.
Bernie was very instrumental inworking and developing a lot of
our generation because afterMickey's Christmas Carol, he and
Ron and John, who had been kindof stuck in story Purgatory on
Black Cauldron until they were,you know, removed.
He took them on and theystarted developing the Great
Mouse detective, Basil at BakerStreet.
(24:38):
And from that point on, thingsstarted to slowly turn around.
Eventually, the technology, themajor change, of course, was
after Home on the Range, whichwas supposed to be our last
hand-drawn film.
You could kind of see thewriting on the wall as Pixar was
becoming those types of movies.
Computer films were becomingthe it movies.
The writing was on the wallthat we were going to have to do
(25:00):
that.
But the neat thing is that'sjust a tool change.
The philosophy of thestorytelling, character
development, all of those kindof things hasn't really changed
because what's really fun is asyou talk to people at the
studio, more often than not, youknow, you hear the same story,
different variations, but it'sthe same story how they grew up
(25:22):
and they wanted to come and workfor Disney and be a Disney
animator or layout artist orwhatever the job is.
There was a a dream to work forDisney.
And I think that's that's beenkey to you know continuing the
success and the legacy thatwe've had.
Allen Wolf (25:39):
Disney Animation has faced some recent box office
challenges with films likeStrange World and Wish Not
Performing as expected.
Well, earlier successes likeFrozen and Milana were massive
hits.
From your perspective, assomeone who helped define
Disney's golden age ofanimation, what do you think
(26:00):
makes the difference between ananimated film that resonates
with audiences and one thatdoesn't?
Mark Henn (26:05):
You ask these simple questions.
You know, if I had the answer,I, you know, I I every film
would be uh wonderful.
I mean, for us at the studio,it's always been about story and
character.
And hopefully you you create astory that is compelling, but
then it's populated withcharacters that people can
(26:28):
identify with, that people cansay, I know what that character
is thinking, and they can kindof get in and in the vehicle
with them and kind of go on thesame journey.
That's that's still always thegoal, and to try to find a
compelling story and populate itwith, you know, appealing,
compelling characters as wellthat audiences can identify
(26:48):
with.
You know, when you have that,that seems to be part of the
formulas when the films are arebigger successes.
And it could be any number ofthings.
And there's been several casesthat I've known of where I get
fan letters, you know, frompeople that talk about how much
these characters mean to them orhave gotten them through a hard
(27:09):
time, a difficult time.
There was a famous uh letter.
It was actually written toMichael Eisner, I believe, after
uh Beauty and the Beast.
And it was from a mother onbehalf of her daughter who said
that, you know, the little girlwas having doubts about herself,
low esteem, because she was abrunette, and all of her friends
and the popular girls wereblondes, no offense to blondes.
(27:31):
But in her mind, she felt heresteem was very low because she
wasn't a blonde, blue-eyed girl.
And then Beauty and the Beastcame out, and Belle is a
brunette, and she was the motherwrote how that just 180 her
daughter's self-esteem, and youknow, I gave her something to to
hang on to.
(27:51):
And I personally have hadseveral letters after Princess
and the Frog from mothers sayingI threw a birthday party for my
my little girl, these areAfrican American mothers saying
how much it meant for herdaughter to see a Disney
princess that looked like her.
Wow.
You know, that kind of gets meall choked up even now.
(28:12):
But it just you never know whatwhat it's gonna take.
It's a Disney princess or ifit's Simba.
You know, we we hear a lot ofstories and then letters, fan
letters, um, explaining you knowwhat these films meet to us.
And then you go to D23convention and you meet the
public, you know, the your fansin person.
(28:33):
And for me, I always hear theone of the nicest compliments is
you animated my childhood.
And you know, you and I, youand I grew up, Frank and Ollie
animated my childhood, and theyanimated the things that
inspired me and wanted me to dothis.
And now I'm hearing that, and Ifeel very old.
But um I don't want to say it'suh a gamble, but you know, we
(29:00):
have no way of knowing until thefilms come out because usually
it's a director, story person.
Somebody comes in and says,I've got an idea for a film, and
this is my vision for it.
And this if the studio agrees,then they you know they get the
opportunity to execute that thatvision.
And sometimes it worksfabulous, and sometimes it's not
(29:21):
as successful, but that'sthat's just kind of the way it
way it goes.
There's a lot of cases whereover time what was initially not
successful, Pinocchio was notsuccessful, Fantasia.
There were a lot of quote flopsearly in the Disney films for a
variety of different reasons.
I mean, the war was going on,and you know, they lost their
(29:41):
European market and things likethat.
But a lot of considered flopsthen are now considered classics
and masterpieces.
So and sometimes, you know,it's just maybe it's just a
matter of time.
And people get a second look atit and go, you know, it's
actually pretty good.
Allen Wolf (29:56):
You mentioned D23.
At the 2024 D23 event, all fivevoice actresses of your Disney
princesses appeared together tohonor you.
What was that like seeing theimpact of your work celebrated?
Mark Henn (30:12):
Oh, I I I still pinch myself that it it's been a year
ago now.
We've we've exceeded a year.
Allen Wolf (30:19):
Mark Henn is a brilliant animator with
overflowing kindness andloyalty.
He doesn't just designcharacters on Peter.
He creates images infused withpassion, vulnerability, and
authenticity that I connect withpeople for generations.
Mark Henn (30:43):
I've stayed in touch.
Uh, we run into each other, acouple of them every so often,
Jody and Paige.
I hadn't seen Linda for awhile.
I was blown away.
The same thing happened when Iwas received my Windsor McKay
Award, Ming Na when introducedme.
And I again had the same impactbecause I didn't know she was
going to do that.
It meant so much to me for herto take the time to do that, and
(31:06):
then to see her part of thisgroup as well.
To be there on stage with me,thankfully, because I was so
nervous.
I was I was very nervous, andum, they've met some.
So much.
And you know, these voiceactors contribute a lot to the
characters.
It's a part of them.
It's a part of me.
You know, the story artists,the director.
And so very, again, verycollaborative in how these
(31:29):
characters come to life.
It meant a lot.
It just it's it's hard toexpress, but it it meant it
meant a lot to me to have themthere.
Allen Wolf (31:36):
What has your spiritual journey looked like?
Mark Henn (31:39):
Well, you know, I was thinking about this this
morning.
I was at a men's breakfast atchurch on Saturday, and uh the
speaker made a quote, forget whohe quoted, but I th it was a
good quote because he said hestole it from somebody because
he thought it was good.
How that God connects the dots,but that God also makes the
dots.
He said that was really stuckwith him, and he meant shared
(32:02):
that with us at the men'sbreakfast.
And I was like, yeah, thatreally makes a lot of sense.
And I as I at this point in mylife and my career, and I look
back first at, you know, how Godconnected the dots, but then I
realized, you know, how God madethose dots along the way.
Everything going back to, youknow, what initially got me
(32:22):
excited about Disney animation,wanting to be an animator, you
know, that process.
I was saved when I was incollege.
I got a phone call from uh tothis day.
I have no idea how what mycontact was with them, but it
was a campus crusade.
A young man called me and said,I'd like to come over and talk
with you.
Could I do that?
I said, sure.
(32:42):
But as I look back and kind oftry to analyze it a little bit,
I realized at that point in mylife, first year in college, I
was away from home and thinkingabout how I was gonna, you know,
run my life and you know what Ithought would be best and what
I which included still workingfor Disney, but you know, it was
all about my way of doingthings.
And then I get this phone call.
(33:03):
I grew up going to church.
That was it was just a normalpart of you know, growing up in
southwestern Ohio, middle classAmerica.
You know, I didn't fullyunderstand, you know, what it
was, what Christ's sacrificemeant, and God's forgiveness was
all about.
So this person walked methrough that.
That's when God opened my eyesand my heart.
You know, there's an image,there's a bridge, God over here,
(33:25):
man over here, and you know,Christ is that bridge to, you
know, restore that relationshipthat was for the first time
explained to me.
And I was in the light bulb,you know, it clicked in my head.
I accepted Christ.
It's been a good journey.
I can't say that it hasn't beenwithout bumps along the way,
and nobody can, but God has beenvery faithful.
(33:46):
And when I look back at thosedots that were connected, and
then think about the fact thatGod made those dots, it just
kind of blows me away to thinkjust how that all came together.
And I'm thinking, gosh, how didI get through that without him?
And even if I didn't, you know,always acknowledge that it was
him behind the scenes, it was.
I said I've learned a lot, I'vemade mistakes, but God has
(34:08):
always been very faithful.
And, you know, like I said, 43years of doing what I've loved
to do, what I dreamt of doing asa small boy to start with is
just certainly God connectingdots and creating those dots
along the way.
How has your faith impactedwhat you do?
First and foremost is doingwhatever you do with excellence.
(34:29):
You know, there's the verseabout whatever you do in word or
deed, you know, doing it untothe Lord.
And I think, you know, that'salways been kind of foundational
for me.
It's just it's a level ofexcellence, it's a standard that
I think God expects of hispeople that love him to do their
very best at whatever they'reasked to do, whatever you're
asked to do, whatever yourprofession is, you know, just do
(34:50):
it heartily as to the Lord.
And that's always been, youknow, foundational for me first
and foremost, and just I alwaysfind myself saying, you know,
asking the Lord to let me, youknow, just represent him well as
much as I possibly can.
That's kind of where it allbegins.
You know, having theopportunity to be a Disney
animator, being the bestanimator I could possibly be.
(35:11):
I said it isn't a competition.
You know, I don't do thisalone.
There's, you know, hundreds ofincredibly talented artists that
I've worked with along the way.
I've been in a more of aleadership position than a lot,
just wanting to make sure I'm,you know, the work that I do is
excellent, that there's a levelof excellence that I think God
expects of us.
Allen Wolf (35:30):
How do you stay spiritually healthy while in the
role that you've had for solong?
Mark Henn (35:36):
You know, I used to try to start each day by, you
know, reading a verse or two uhin the Word, pray all the time.
I mean, there's no set time,and you can if you're walking
across to the lot, you can bepraying.
I mean, that's one of myfavorite things that I kind of
miss in retirement is taking alot walk, walking around the lot
and just again, just talkingwith the Lord and you know,
(35:59):
expressing my gratitude for youknow being having the
opportunity to work there.
I've had the opportunity toalso work with a lot of fellow
Christians, and we've had avariety of Bible studies across
over the years, just knowingthat you're not alone, that
there are other believers at thestudio that you can talk to and
share with.
It's about you know just livinga life that, you know, honoring
(36:20):
to the Lord as far as I'mconcerned.
Allen Wolf (36:22):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Mark Henn (36:26):
Well, I often think of the title uh King David had
that he was a man after God'sown heart.
And I suppose in one respectsuh I'd like to have that as part
of my legacy.
A good father, a good artist,and uh, man who loved God as
much as I possibly can.
I think that's as much as anyof us can expect.
(36:47):
You know, all the awards andaccolades are all gonna burn up
and you know it's not gonna be,you know, it's gonna go
somewhere, but it's not gonna gowith you to heaven, that's for
sure.
But if it represents a level ofexcellence of doing a job well
done, being thankful that uh Godhas allowed me to have this
career and people knowing aboutthat, I think that that's part
(37:09):
of the legacy as well.
Allen Wolf (37:10):
Well, thank you so much for being my guest and
sharing incredible stories,Mark.
Mark Henn (37:15):
Well, thank you for having me.
This has been fun.
I appreciate it.
Allen Wolf (37:19):
It's great to have you.
If you work in entertainment,check out our courses, groups,
and other resources available atnavigatinghollywood.org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links, and more at
navigatinghollywood.org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
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