May 1, 2025 • 43 mins
Philip Winchester takes us behind the scenes of his remarkable journey from Montana to the Royal Shakespeare Company to Hollywood, revealing how his mother's brave decision to send him to London drama school launched a career spanning classical theater, action-packed television, and movies.
On the adrenaline-fueled set of "Strike Back," Winchester performed jaw-dropping stunts—stepping off helicopters onto moving trains. His next challenge came in mastering the rapid-fire "legalese" of Dick Wolf's courtroom dramas, delivering eight pages of complex dialogue daily. Winchester also opens up about the unexpected spiritual awakening he experienced after a chance encounter on the London Underground—a moment that completely transformed his understanding of fatherhood and purpose.
Join us for this powerful exploration of balancing Hollywood ambition with deeply personal values—a conversation that will leave you reconsidering what truly matters when the cameras stop rolling.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allen Wolf (00:03):
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywoodorg to
discover how you can getinvolved.
Today, we are joined by actorPhilip Winchester.
(00:26):
Philip trained at theprestigious London Academy of
Music and Dramatic Art and hiscareer quickly took off with
roles in Thunderbirds andFlyboys.
Philip received criticalacclaim for his performance as
Edmund in the RSC's productionof King Lear, which toured
globally, and then he played thelead role in the psychological
(00:48):
thriller In My Sleep that waswritten and directed by yours
truly.
His television career includeslead roles in Crusoe, the
Emmy-nominated Strike Back, thePlayer, chicago Justice and Law
Order SVU.
He also stars in the filmsRogue, endangered Species and is
featured in the Netflix seriesRansom Canyon.
(01:10):
Welcome, philip, it's so niceto be here.
It's great to have you Now.
You and I have been friends formany years, yes, but I believe
I'm in a rarefied class offriends who got to see you die
three times when you performedin King Lear for the RSC.
Philip Winchester (01:32):
That's right.
Did you come three times?
Allen Wolf (01:34):
Yeah, in Stratford-upon-Avon, in New York
City and in Los Angeles.
Philip Winchester (01:38):
Los Angeles, that's right.
Allen Wolf (01:40):
Three times.
Philip Winchester (01:41):
Oh, so much fun.
Allen Wolf (01:42):
I prefer seeing you living.
Philip Winchester (01:44):
Thank you, thank you.
Allen Wolf (01:45):
It was an amazing experience to see you in those
shows in those different cities,even going back to where
Shakespeare got his start.
How did that experience impactyour growth as an actor?
Philip Winchester (01:56):
You know it's funny.
I think about it quite oftennow as I'm getting into my 40s.
That happened.
I was gosh.
I was 25, 26 years old and Ijust thought, yeah, this is what
people do.
They, you know, go to you,train in London, you get into
the RSC.
Hopefully you're lucky enoughto work with someone like Ian
McKellen and Trevor Nunn andtravel the world.
It was an extraordinaryexperience.
(02:16):
I think the biggest takeawayfrom the RSC and from Ian
McKellen being King Lear wasthat he would come out every
night and do it differently, orat least try to do it
differently.
King Lear is extraordinarilycomplex and hard, like the role
of King Lear in King Lear is Ithink it's one of the biggest
roles next to Hamlet perhaps andIan would come out and he would
(02:38):
change his inflection on onepart or try and make it mean
something else and try somethingelse with the actors on stage
every night and I remembersitting backstage or waiting in
the wings to come on with someof the younger actors, as I was,
and we would be listening andwe would look at each other and
go.
He did it.
He did it different tonight, hedid something different and
there was just this really steeplearning curve of new audience.
(02:59):
It's the same material.
How do we do it different?
How do we do it different?
How do we make it interesting?
It was such an amazingexperience to watch him do that
and to watch someone so wellversed in their craft just take
command of that stage everynight and do such a good job
with it.
I look back on it and thinkjust how fortunate I was to be a
part of that, because I wasn'tsupposed to be in london for
(03:20):
those auditions.
I was going out to london withmy mom to see, and while I was
there the phone rang and I thinkit was kind of like, what are
you doing next week?
And I was like, oh, I'm gettingon a plane and going back to LA
.
And they said, no, you shouldstay for a couple more days and
you should come and meet TrevorNunn and do this audition.
And so I went and met him andit ended up working out, which
was amazing.
Allen Wolf (03:37):
Wow, and what an adventure going all over the
world performing that showReally incredible.
Philip Winchester (03:42):
We started in Stratford-upon-Avon and then we
started going around the world.
We started in Singapore at theEsplanade Theater in Singapore,
we were at the National Theaterin Melbourne and then we went to
New Zealand.
We went to Wellington andAuckland, then we had a bit of a
break and we picked up the paceagain in Brooklyn at BAM, and
(04:03):
then we were at the Guthrie inMinneapolis and then we were in
Royce Hall at UCLA and then wefinished in the West End.
So it was about a year ofreally depressing material.
King Lear and the Seagull Iremember looking at everybody.
One day we were backstage inLondon in the West End and we
realized we'd been sloggingthrough this really heavy
(04:25):
material for a year.
But what a gift to work.
Allen Wolf (04:31):
I remember you saying I think you were on stage
, maybe in Singapore, and youblanked out on your lines and
you were thinking of beavers orsomething.
Do you remember this?
Philip Winchester (04:43):
So we, you know they call it drying or
going up or something like that,you know, and on camera it's
absolutely fine.
You just say I'm really sorry,can I, can I, can we start over?
So the funny thing about thisthis moment was we were in
Auckland, new Zealand.
Peter Jackson was there, he wasin the front row and I was like
, okay, I'm going to kill ittonight.
We're going to get into someLord of the Rings action here
(05:05):
and Edmund starts the play withthis monologue.
You know he starts out Thounature art, my goddess, to thy
laws my services are bound.
Wherefore should I stand in theplague of custom and permit the
curiosity of nations to depriveme?
And I remember I kind of, Ilooked up, this spotlight that
I'd never seen before hit me, itwas like a laser beam burned
(05:26):
through my head and I completelyand utterly dried.
I mean, I couldn't have toldyou my name, I couldn't have
told you what I was wearing orthe color of my boots.
It was just gone and the firstthought that came out of this
(05:49):
quagmire of mud in my head washuh, I wonder why badgers have
white stripes on their faces.
And I went okay, and I, I thinkI kind of got thou nature art,
my goddess and I just like thefloor opened up.
We, we trained at drama school.
We train for these moments bytelling jokes in front of the
class over and over and overagain.
(06:10):
So you'd initially get a laughand then the laugh would half,
and it would half again, andthen you'd just be standing
there in this uncomfortablesilence where time stood still
Right.
So I'm sure, in the grandscheme of scheme of things, it
was like I don't know, like a,like a five second drive, but in
my head you could have driven asemi, through it, built a house
(06:31):
, had a helicopter, land on theroof, thrown a party, and all I
did was call out my, mypartner's name, who his name was
ben mages, and he was playingedgar, and I just went edgar,
and he came out.
And he came out like right oncue because I think he heard it,
(07:06):
he heard me go, and he came out.
And he came out like right oncue because I think he heard it
he brutal just went up and itdidn't come back.
You know, and that's the beautyof live theater, right?
I think, secretly, the audienceis hoping for that sometimes,
(07:26):
because they get to ride it outwith you and they're like what
are you going to do?
Allen Wolf (07:28):
That's why I think, when an audience is watching a
show where there are children oranimals, they're just
completely fascinated, becauseyou just don't know what they're
going to do, what's going to gowrong.
Yes, yes, amazing that theytrained you in drama school how
to deal with situations likethat.
Philip Winchester (07:44):
Well, yeah, obviously it didn't work
brilliantly.
It didn't, because I, I, I doremember thinking in that space
like this is it's shorter thanyou think, Take a breath and
find it, take a breath and findit and it just, it just didn't
work.
Allen Wolf (07:58):
Now looking back when did you first decide you
wanted to be an actor?
Philip Winchester (08:02):
I was raised by a single mother for the first
like four or five years of mylife, and I watched her really
do everything she could toprovide and she met a really
great guy who she ended upmarrying, who, while my mom was
working nights at a nursing homethis is I'm.
You know, I'm six, seven yearsold.
At this point, my dad, my nownew dad, is taking courses at
Montana State University and oneof his courses was a drama
(08:25):
course, and so my mom wasworking nights in a nursing home
.
I would come out ofkindergarten or first grade, she
would pick me up and drop meoff at Montana State University
with my dad and I would hang outbackstage with all these
theater actors, with Joel Janke,who's he headed up Montana
Shakespeare in the Parks parkshere, and I watched these men
(08:45):
and women learn their lines likego from a literally a blank
stage with a ghost light tohaving boxes and scripts in
their hands, and then the flatsand that would come in, and then
a few props would come in, andso the progression of building
characters and things like that,and I just I grew up with
actors and I thought, well, thisis, this is, this is what
people do, and then probably youknow, now that I'm older, I can
(09:07):
look back and see that actingwas a great way for me to act
out literally, quite quiteliterally, to act out on things
that I wasn't quite aware of,that were going on in my psyche
and things I was dealing withabout childhood and and other
insecurities that we deal withas young adults and as kids, and
it was a way of dealing withthat, probably of being on stage
and being silly and being theclass clown but getting
(09:28):
recognition for it on a biggerlevel.
So I remember saying to my momand dad in high school like I
want to be an actor.
My mom and dad were brilliantbecause they said okay.
You know, they could have saiddon't be ridiculous, the chances
of it working are 0.001%.
They didn't.
They said okay and then theybacked it up with a brilliant
proposition.
My mom actually said if youwant to be an actor, you have to
(09:51):
go to drama school in London.
And I don't think she realizedwhat an impactful statement that
was, because to me as a young Imean I was a freshman or
sophomore in high school at thetime and was trying to make
these decisions.
Looking back, you're just like,yeah, great, thanks, mom, she's
agreeing to what I want to do.
I win.
But looking back, it was thisreally brave thing that she did
(10:13):
as a parent, because she said,okay, do it, go somewhere else,
experience a different culture,spend time with family that you
know but don't know that wellyet.
And so my whole life wascompletely inverted and I was
thrown into a culture that Ithought I understood but didn't.
I got to hang out with familythat I only knew through
vacations and good times, and Igot to go through life with them
(10:36):
for, you know, about sevenyears.
So it was a really incrediblegift.
I'm not even sure my mom knowsthat she did that or knows that
it was that much of a gift, butyou know, looking back, I can
see what a brilliant offer thatwas from her or I guess it was a
, you know.
She said, fine, do it, but doit this way, you know.
Allen Wolf (10:52):
It is interesting how we can get so focused on,
maybe, that career that we want,the training that we want, that
we forget the important part ofcharacter building.
That can actually be even moreimportant than that, because it
gives you the stamina, thecharacter, to actually go
through the journey that you'retrying to do.
Philip Winchester (11:12):
Right, you're exactly right.
And you know just to kind ofjump onto the side of that it
you know, as an actor, as adirector, as people who are
trying to emulate real life, ifyou have no life experiences, if
you just you know, you're justtrying for that next goal and
working towards success, success, success.
You have nothing to draw fromright.
(11:34):
London was an incredible giftbecause it was hard, you know.
So I was able to be broken intoa thousand pieces and I had the
love of a family.
My grandmother was just themost incredible woman.
She ran a bed and breakfast inEngland, you know, by herself,
for probably about probably 40,50 years.
(11:57):
I lived at this bed andbreakfast.
So I had this really great lifewhere I was at drama school.
In the daytime I rode amotorbike back and forth between
London and where my grandmalived, just outside of London,
and then all the guests who werestaying at the bed and
breakfast, which is pre Airbnb,right, so it was.
We had directors who werestaying and shooting.
There's a television series outthere called Carnation Street
or East Enders, and we had thesedirectors who would stay there
(12:19):
because it was close and it wascheap.
Grandma had a single.
You had a single bed in yourroom and there was a box of
Weetabix on the table in themorning, and so it was great.
But all these characters camethrough the farm and I got to
see them and kind of hear theirstories about working in the
business or businessmen who werecoming through from all over
Europe to do stuff in London.
It was just a really neatculture of people and
(12:40):
relationships that my grandmahad created and I was so
privileged to be a part of that.
It was really beautiful.
That's amazing.
Allen Wolf (12:48):
One of your I think career highlights would be
Strike Back.
Would you agree on that?
Yeah, and you performed many ofyour own stunts on the show.
Can you share some memorablestunt experiences?
Philip Winchester (13:04):
Yeah, you bet .
So Strike Back was funny, justlike we didn't know how good we
had it on at the RoyalShakespeare Company.
I don't think Sully and I andsome of the other core people
who made Strike Back reallyunderstood how good we had it
until we got thrown out of thatsystem and put into the network
system of television.
You know, the thing that was soextraordinary about Strike Back
was we'd get our scripts.
Hbo would go go make it.
(13:25):
Cary Antholis was the head ofdrama over there at the time and
he was brilliant.
He loved the show and he justsaid make it as close to this as
possible.
But I trust you guys You've hadall the military training.
We have military advisors onset.
We have a core group of peoplewho now make up Strike Back.
If it's not exactly like it ison the page, but it's still fun,
just do it, just make sure it'sfun.
So there was this really thiskind of unicorn world where we
(13:48):
had a.
You know the outlines of whatthey wanted, but we could also
go off roading a little bit ifwe wanted to and have fun with
it and it really worked and Ithink part of that was
accidental.
So I remember episode I thinkit was episode three or four of
the first season this gal, thatStonebridge, the character I
play in the in the series, she'stied up and she's got a bomb
(14:09):
vest on and they know that theycan't undo it.
And so he knows he has to saygoodbye to her and he knows he
has to leg it because theclock's ticking literally on her
chest.
And we had this, this wonderfulSouth African special effects
crew.
How close do you want to be?
And we were like what do youmean?
He's like, do you want to be inthe explosion?
Kind of like, well, yeah, Imean relatively close.
(14:32):
Right, we want to be in it,like how far?
He said well, and the directorcame up and he's like, you know,
with zoom lenses we can make itlook like you're really close
or we can, but we're going toset up kind of close to you so
it's got to be within 30 or 40feet.
So we were like, yeah, I mean,we'll be safe, right.
It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll be totally safe, right?
So meanwhile they're settingthe shot up, they're filling the
bomb pot up with you know allthe stuff.
(14:53):
They fill it up with the dustand the gasoline and stuff like
that and we're having gel put onour the back of our necks and
all over the back of our.
Anything that's exposed getsfire gel on it.
We're in the shot, we run away,they hit it, boom, the thing
goes off and we, it throws us tothe ground and we look up
afterwards and it was a reallyintense, emotional, emotional
scene because stonebridge loseshis, loses a friend.
(15:13):
But after the shot and afterthe cameras were turned off, we
were like, oh my gosh, that wasawesome man, that was incredible
.
And I think the producers alsosaw.
Well, if these guys are willingto do it, why don't we keep
doing that?
Why don't we keep going downthat road and exploring what
this means to have a show whereour lead actors really do as
much of their stunts as possible?
(15:34):
I think the beauty of the StrikeBack world and incorporating
stunts with Sully and I was wedefinitely had stuntmen who did
some really crazy dangerousthings, but we also had these
opportunities to do things thatlooked really dangerous.
But I mean, you know, if yousaid, okay, we're going to step
off of a helicopter onto a train, then you're like that's,
(15:55):
that's completely insane.
But when you have a really goodhelicopter pilot and the
train's moving at a constantspeed, it's just a step.
It looks insane and it looksscary and it sounds bonkers.
But all these things werereally thought out so that they
were actually relatively safe.
Allen Wolf (16:11):
I remember you sending me a picture of an
explosion where it kind of waslicking at the side of your face
.
Do you remember that I?
Philip Winchester (16:22):
I do remember that.
I do.
So that was the one case wherewe were chasing a bad guy down
this stairwell and he wasthrowing grenades kind of up
behind him past us.
We were on this rooftop in CapeTown and it was really windy.
We had a bomb pot set up downthis stairwell and they said,
(16:42):
okay, we're going to light itoff and it's just going to come
out this doorway and it'll goright past you guys.
But because that wind wascircling around, that bomb pot
went off and that gas and thefire and all that stuff which
has made you know thepropellants that they use burn
really quickly so that if thingslike this happen they don't
stay on you.
But it came up and it hit thatwall of wind and it just
(17:03):
splashed to the sides.
Where Sully and I were.
We kind of felt maybe somethingwas off and so both of us were
sort of ready for it.
But you know our camera guys,they had protective gear on and
it burned all their camera gearand it burned all their
protective gear and that was theclosest we got to things going
wrong.
We got a little, a little red,but we didn't lose any hair,
thank goodness.
Allen Wolf (17:21):
You were in multiple shows by.
What was it like working inthat world?
Philip Winchester (17:27):
I was in Los Angeles, bob Greenblatt, who was
the head of NBC at the time,pulled me into his office and
said look, dick Wolf is going todo a new show.
It's basically going to be LawOrder.
But in Chicago At the time Iwas like why are you telling me
that?
He said I think you should meetwith Dick Wolf and I was like I
mean OK, I mean fine, I'll meetwith him.
(17:47):
That's not what I've done and Ikind of love this trajectory
that my career was on.
I really enjoyed the excitement, I enjoyed the silly stunts and
I enjoyed that that world ofbeing trained with the military
and traveling around the worldand stuff like that.
And I was like I don't know ifI want to stand in a courtroom.
So when I did meet Dick Wolf athis place, he pulled me into
his office and he said right,bob Greenblatt says you're the
(18:07):
guy.
And I was like this is news tome.
The guy for what?
And he said you know the guy,I'm doing this new show.
And I said yeah.
I said and I don't know whatpossessed me to say this, but I
said I don't think I'm your guy.
I said I jump out ofhelicopters and I punch people
in the face for a living.
And he goes.
He's brilliant, dick Wolf isbrilliant.
And he goes.
Well, look, kid, if you don'tlike it you can quit, and if I
(18:29):
don't like you doing it I'llfire you.
And I was like I think that's apretty good job offer.
Do you have a script that I canread?
And he went nope, but it'll begood.
And I went.
I don't think there's anythingelse I can say.
(18:51):
So our meeting was like it wasprobably like three minutes long
.
So that was my introduction toDick Wolf and the Dick Wolf
universe.
And I was fortunate enough to bechallenged in a completely
different way.
So we did a backdoor pilot on ashow called Chicago PD which
introduced my character, whichwas Peter Stone, which was Ben
Stone's son from the originalLaw and Order.
It was a baptism of fire man.
I mean that legalese.
That's like eight pages ofdialogue every day and closing
(19:11):
arguments and back and forth inthe courtroom.
It is a.
You just got to get in thereand do it, and I was not
prepared for how hard that wasgoing to be and the amount of
work that that was going to be,but it was.
It made me appreciate what Isee on TV.
When you see these people, youknow get up there and do these
closing arguments and do thecourtroom scenes.
It's, it's brutal.
We did 13 episodes of Chicagojustice and then you know the
(19:38):
network world is funny, right,and it didn't.
It didn't go.
But Dick Wolf again wasincredibly kind and I got a
phone call from him and he saidthese are the way these things
go.
Sometimes we don't know why.
Would you like to go over toLaw Order?
And so he really gave me thislife preserver when he didn't
need to.
And I moved from ChicagoJustice over to Law Order SVU
(20:00):
with Mariska Hargitay for twoyears and was the kid who jumped
out of helicopters and punchedpeople in the face.
And then I was getting punchedin the face with the material
and just the reality of how muchwork that was and it was so
good for me as an actor to haveto just buckle down and you know
you just have to do yourhomework every night and it was
a great learning curve.
Allen Wolf (20:20):
You've worked in both British and American
productions.
What are some differences thatyou've noticed between the two?
Philip Winchester (20:27):
Just because I've had the opportunity to live
in England and I don't know howyou feel about this, but
sometimes in the US,particularly Los Angeles,
there'll be more of an emphasison looks and clothes and like
the model element of aproduction, and with the
European things or the Englishthings, it really is about the
(20:48):
work.
Okay, what's our, why are wehere, what are the choices we're
making?
And I love that sort ofchallenging that, coming to
grips with that.
It's like, yeah, you got tolook a certain way, but also
it's so much about the story andabout the words on the page and
serving the story and servingthe project rather than being
selfish and wanting it all to beabout you.
Allen Wolf (21:06):
Well, you've worked in film, TV and theater.
Do you have a preferencebetween the three?
They all scratch differentitches.
Philip Winchester (21:14):
I think Theater is all about preparation
.
The way you know this, makingindependent movies it's time,
costs money.
And with theater you get thisbeautiful window of two, maybe
three months where you're divinginto the script, you're working
script, you're working scenes,you're going way out of the box
and then way under and you'refiguring out what you want to do
(21:35):
, what you want to do, what youwant it to be, and then you
whittle it down.
Whittle it down and then youput it in front of an audience
and you pressure test it and yougo oh, we totally missed that,
we need to go back and we try itagain.
And so you and then, in theory,you always get this immediate
pressure test.
So you go.
I thought that was going to begreat.
The audience really didn'trespond to that.
I'll try something elsetomorrow night.
Film, especially indie film andtelevision, is just I mean,
(22:00):
shoot, you can get a phone callon a Wednesday night, you're on
set Friday morning, you're doinga guest role and you just kind
of have to pull something out ofyour socks and go.
Well, this is what's on thepage, this is what I think this
character should be like, andthen I'll see if it works and
I'll see if the director likesit, and so often you really are
just filling a spot.
(22:20):
That doesn't happen all thetime.
I think the strength of StrikeBack and the strength of Law
Order SVU and Chicago Justicewas our guest roles were
incredible.
I was a prosecutor and thestrength of Law Order, svu and
Chicago Justice was our guestroles were incredible.
I was a prosecutor and thedefense attorneys would come in.
They were always guest rolesfor one or two episodes and I
just remember thinking thesepeople are incredible.
(22:42):
Sometimes TV can be too fast forits own good and you don't get
to live it.
It's still fun because you getto travel and you get to meet
cool people.
Theater you have that time.
That sweet spot maybe is film,where you and the director get
to talk about things and you getto hash out your character and
you get to hash out reasons andthen you get to experiment with
it in front of a camera.
I still think about this, Allen.
(23:03):
You know we did In My Sleep.
We were, we were talking aboutMarcus and him working out of
something called a core lie,that we all operate for better
or worse out of these thingscalled core lies.
Whether you know that weshouldn't believe, but we do and
if we're healthy, we workthrough them and if we're not,
we were like Marcus, we justmedicate, or you know, self
(23:25):
self-medicate, and I loved thatprocess with you and with the,
with the other actors, and I'llI'll never forget that that was
a that was a real turning momentin being turned on to how
powerful film can be because itcan impact your own life and,
hopefully, the people who whosee it as well.
Allen Wolf (23:41):
Wow, that's really encouraging to hear.
It is amazing to think that thefilm came out 15 years ago.
My director's cut came outrecently.
What was it like for you to seeit for the first time after all
these years?
Philip Winchester (23:53):
Honestly, it was hugely encouraging and also
I mean to big you up it'smarvelous storytelling.
So often you turn on the TV andyou're like how did that get
made?
Or how did that end up here?
And it's hard to make stuff,how did that get made?
Or how did that end up here?
And it's hard to make stuff.
(24:15):
But to make it and to make itwell, your character development
and the fact that you didn'tleave anything untied was so
clever and so thought out.
Megan and I watched it the othernight.
We got into bed and we turnedit on and we looked at each
other afterwards and just wentthat is a good movie, that is.
It's a really great thriller.
Sometimes hard work doesn't payoff in terms of like the
product gets.
I don't know.
It gets jostled around in theedit or you lose control of it.
(24:37):
Right, you were very smart andyou, I think, fortunate enough
to maintain that ownership of it, plus the control of the
material, and so it it feelslike correct me if I'm wrong,
but it feels like it still isyour vision, and so I think
that's why it's so good, becauseit wasn't touched by too many
cooks and the director's cut is.
It's great.
I love, like the grade is justa little more modern, those big
(25:00):
shots of LA that kind of reallysteep you in the character of
the city of Los Angeles.
That really helps.
Allen Wolf (25:05):
And you were in every single scene.
I mean that was a lot of work.
What were your hopes that theaudience would experience as
they follow your character'sjourney?
Philip Winchester (25:19):
You very courageously gave a new actor
his first lead role.
I had not led a film, I had notled a television series.
You know I had not led a film,I had not led a television
series.
You know, for me to turn around, and you know, and do this, I
had to basically on the fly, gookay, what works, what doesn't
work, and I learned from,probably from In My Sleep, what
(25:41):
I now use the rest of my career,which is scripts, can change.
So I learned my lines two daysout, I learn the next days and
the day after that, and theneverything else is kind of still
potentially in the edit Sleep,food and sort of conservation of
energy on set, especiallybecause Marcus had to look a
(26:02):
certain way, finding time tocontinue to train and also get
sleep and also get food and alsolearn your lines, and also and
realizing, looking at actors whoI'd admired or roles that I
admire, going, these people areeither crazy or great at time
management, or both, I suppose.
And so time management was areal thing that came out of In
(26:23):
My Sleep.
After all of that, you want toserve the story and you want to
do the story justice, and so myhope with Marcus was to tell
this Hitchcockian tale and tryand get you know.
Try and try and make people beentertained.
I mean, that's that's why I doit.
I like to.
I like to tell stories becausesitting around a dinner table or
(26:44):
at a coffee shop and seeingsomeone respond to something
that you're telling them I findreally fun.
And film is just a broaderversion of that, I feel.
Allen Wolf (26:52):
Well, you've had a busy career and you also have a
family.
You have two girls that you'reraising.
How do you balance your actingcareer with your family life?
Philip Winchester (27:03):
Balancing my career and my family is sort of
a job job choice.
Sometimes you get a job inBulgaria for six weeks and the
girls are in school and my wifeand I made a decision really
early on in my career that wewouldn't be apart for more than
two weeks because we felt thatour marriage was important
enough to protect and ourrelationship was important
(27:25):
enough to protect.
And now, having kids, it's justgone that one step further.
But sometimes in the reality, Ithink COVID, certainly when we
were bubbled up and doing thesethings across the world and you
couldn't have family near you oron set or flown around, it
really changed that, and so thatchallenged our notion of what
we thought was normal and whatwe made normal by having a two
(27:46):
week rule.
And so now we, you know, everyonce in a while I'll have to go
and do an independent filmsomewhere and it's yeah, it's
five, six weeks and I'm awayfrom my family for a big chunk
of time.
I'm really fortunate that whenI'm home, I'm fully home.
So my relationships with mykids, with my two girls I'm
(28:06):
there for breakfast on theweekends.
I'm there for breakfast on theweekends.
I'm there for breakfast, lunchand dinner.
We sit down every night as afamily.
We're incredibly fortunate thatwe've made we do a job and we
put it away in the war chest andwe nibble away at it until the
next job comes, but we do thatin order to protect our family
(28:27):
time.
So really everything outside ofwork that doesn't have me
traveling or has me at home hasme being as involved as I can
with my kids.
So I was coaching football.
I was coaching my daughter's or, sorry, the soccer team going
to dance recitals, anything likethat, reading stories at
nighttime and just being aspresent a father as I can be.
I married an amazing woman whois not only understanding of
what I do but completelyencouraging of it, and she knows
(28:50):
that when that phone rings andit's last minute and I got to go
, I got to go.
Our marriage slogan is to tryand out-serve one another and
she's certainly winning.
Not that we're keeping score,but she's like because I've been
gone there's so many timeswhere I'm gone and she's a
single mom.
The way we balance it is reallypresent, really intentional on
(29:11):
what we are and who we are whenI am home.
I had a moment the other day.
I didn't know my biologicalfather.
I was just completelyoverwhelmed by this really
strong sense that God hasallowed me to spend not only my
time with my kids, but the timethat my dad didn't spend with me
(29:31):
, with my kids, it was just thisfree gift, you know, and I just
thought, man, I was so thankfulfor that moment because I just
thought, yeah, that's prettyincredible, and I know how lucky
we are.
Allen Wolf (29:41):
You mentioned God.
What has your spiritual journeylooked like?
Philip Winchester (29:45):
I was raised in a really religious household
and probably tried to buck it.
As an adolescent, I had areally amazing experience of God
in an Anglican church in the UK.
It was a spinoff of, or it wasa church plant from, a church
called HTB and it was this small, charismatic Anglican church.
If you can believe those two gotogether.
(30:05):
It was really full of the HolySpirit, really full of young
people worshiping God andexperiencing God and living in
community together and I thoughtI'm going to show all you
you're all crazy religiousfanatics.
Long story short, like God justshowed up and wiped the floor
with me and that was 20 plusyears ago.
Allen Wolf (30:22):
Why would you go to that church to begin with?
Philip Winchester (30:24):
A gal came up to me on the tube and I had
been out partying with friendsand was drinking and partying
and being silly on the tube andshe came up and was like, hey,
you guys need to settle down.
You're gonna be careful, you'llfall on the tracks, kind of a
thing.
And I was like, oh, pretty girl, let's talk to her.
And she obviously got my number.
She called me a week later andsaid hey, you want to come up to
(30:46):
London and meet me?
I said, hey, you want to comeup to London and meet me?
I was like, yeah, pretty girl,let's go, roll my cigarettes in
my sleeve, ride my motorbike upto London, I'll show you.
We had a coffee in SouthKensington and she said, look,
the real reason I invited you uphere was I would love to invite
you to church.
And I was like, oh, yeah, I'llgo to church and I'll show you
that you're all crazy nutbags.
And then went in there and Godwas like oh, and just kind of
(31:06):
had a real experience of peaceand purpose and I felt like I
was home.
You know what I mean?
I felt a real sense of identityand purpose and comfort in the
presence of this God.
Allen Wolf (31:20):
And this all happened going to church one
time.
Philip Winchester (31:24):
I'd gone to church as a kid.
I was being judgmental.
It was judgmental, veryreligious, and I had no concept
of relation, religion beingpeople going to God.
And there's this relationalelement of Jesus, of Nazareth,
who says no, no, I want to cometo you and I want to meet you
and I've actually made you in away that, if you let me, I will
(31:44):
best show you how to live thislife.
And there are boundaries inyour life that make you better,
not worse, and they're there foryour health, not to destroy you
.
And that concept of boundariesas a young drama school student
in London was like yeah, right,and there was just this very
real sense of I matter to God,we all matter to him.
(32:05):
He cares about us and he'screated us in such a way to live
.
We can live these incrediblyfull lives.
And it's just trusting him Liketrust the story.
The story is actually good.
If you trust it Like, I think,probably anyone with faith.
Some days it's like, yeah, rocksolid, let's go.
Other days it's like, oh mygosh, what am I doing and where
(32:28):
are we at?
And why did he put the tree inthe middle of the garden?
That's a really mean thing todo.
If he was a loving God, hewouldn't have done that.
And then you back up a thousandfeet and go well, maybe it's
because we're all one or twosteps away from blowing our
lives apart every day and he wasjust showing us that, hey, you
have to make hard decisionsevery day.
This is real Life, is it's good?
(32:48):
I'm here for you to lean on andto trust that spiritual journey
is a daily.
It's a daily journey, brother.
Allen Wolf (32:53):
Did you have an impression of God that changed
then through that experience?
Philip Winchester (32:59):
A hundred percent.
I had a completely false viewof who God was and of what my
relationship with him was, andso it became much more.
There is the God of theuniverse, but we're also allowed
to talk to him like a friend,and that's truly incredible.
You know that that reallyrocked me, when I realized that
there's this, there's a creator,god who's also a father, god
(33:22):
who's also a friend, you know,and that very much changed in
those in those moments at um atSt Mary's Church there in London
.
Allen Wolf (33:30):
You had mentioned earlier that you didn't have a
relationship with yourbiological father.
Do you think that thatexperience impacted the way that
you looked at God?
Philip Winchester (33:41):
Almost certainly and that was maybe
perhaps affirmed during myyounger years of going to a
religious church where it waslike, if God was there, it was
there for punishment and Ididn't have a sense of what a
good father looked like.
So there was no sense of likewhy would a father be good?
They leave or they punish?
(34:02):
Those lies and those scalesjust kind of fell away in that
moment in London and look, Imean, you know, I felt what I
felt in that moment was justthis voice that said I love you,
I've always loved you and Iwant to be with you, and it was
like, yeah, why would I turnaway from that?
That moment really transformedthat initial pain and the
(34:25):
initial lack of masculinity,lack of fatherhood or just a not
true perception of whatfatherhood was, and it was
replaced by this piece.
Allen Wolf (34:37):
How did that new faith impact your artistic
career?
Philip Winchester (34:41):
I remember having discussions with my
pastors about certain roles oryou know, can I do this, can I
not do this?
And not being sure about againwhat the boundaries were.
So fast forward.
You know 20, 23, 24 years nowof being in the business, I have
a much more stronger sense ofwho I am as a believer and just
who I am as a man.
What do I want my kids to seewhen they grow up?
(35:03):
It's not about quote unquotesuccess and all that stuff and
the shiny things in themagazines, and it was at one
point.
I always feel no matter whatgrateful for the work, no matter
what it is I really do, becauseI think that work begets work.
I think that you learn on everysingle job and my faith has
(35:23):
influenced my work because nowwhen I go to a job, I say in my
prayers I say Lord, thank youfor this job.
Now, what's the job?
And without fail, I'll meetsomeone who's just super dope
and just I'm like, oh my gosh.
And like we, we hit it offabout life or we hit it off
about something that's going onin the world, and I'm like, okay
(35:46):
, this is the reason I'm here,you know what I mean.
And making really coolrelationships on jobs, like the
work is the work and it'simportant, but the people and
the relationships like that's,that's everything.
I've been really honored to bea part of, everything that I'm a
part of, and allow the Lord togo all right.
Now, here's this, over here.
I need you to do this whileyou're doing this or we're in
(36:07):
this place for this reason, andso I think that's what's changed
, certainly in the last fewyears, certainly probably since
COVID, especially where we werelike, are we ever going to work
again?
And so every job's a gift, youknow, and the people you work
with.
Allen Wolf (36:19):
How do you stay spiritually healthy while
working in entertainment?
Philip Winchester (36:23):
I have a group of guys that meets every
Friday morning when I'm home.
We hash it out.
We're not all professionallyinvolved in media or in film and
television, you know, they'reall dads.
So I have accountability.
I have people I can talk to andsay, hey, this thing's pinged
up and great guys were like,yeah, you should probably not do
that, you dumb ass, or justlike to stand with you, you know
.
So it's accountability.
I talk with my wife multipletimes a day and I set aside time
(36:46):
to be in front of God.
I set aside time every,especially when I'm away.
It's really like, you know,before the gym, before breakfast
or whatever it is.
It's like I spend time inscripture and I spend time with
him trying to figure out whathe's trying to tell me, or you
know what's going on with theday, and so it starts that way.
And then I think thankfulness,just having a heart of gratitude
, because this is silly andyou'd never know how long you
(37:07):
get to do it, and so I'm reallygrateful for everything that I
get to be a part of.
Allen Wolf (37:11):
Can you tell us about a moment in your career
when you felt discouraged andyou wondered what would happen
next?
Philip Winchester (37:16):
There was quite a few years where I just
went back to back to back toback to back projects and they
were like making it like theywere offers.
The phone would ring and therewould be other offers on the
table and you and your agentwere doing that insane thing of
picking between projects, ofgoing well, this one's this and
that one's that, and what do youreally want to do?
(37:37):
And so six, seven, eight yearsof that, just like boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom.
And then my daughter, james,was born.
I had two weeks off.
The producers on SVU gave metwo weeks off, which was
incredible.
I came home unclicking Jamesfrom the backseat and my agent
called hey buddy.
And you can always tell rightwith agents, cause they're like
(37:58):
hey, man, it's like greatestthing in the world, or yo buddy,
yo.
And I was like, oh, I got theyo buddy, or yo buddy, yo.
And I was like, oh, I got theyo buddy, and he goes.
So, uh, they're not going torenew you on svu.
And I was like what do you mean?
They're not going to?
What do you mean?
We?
We have a four-year contract.
It's two years in is the other?
They're not going to renew you.
Okay, well, surely there's amistake, like, well, this is
(38:22):
what do you mean?
This is what we do.
I haven't done anything wrong.
There was no indication thatthat was going to be the case.
And then I had to go back towork three more episodes, it was
fired and I had to go back andbe like, hey, let's keep playing
ball.
Everybody Like it was justbrutal, you know, and that was
worse than because the businesscan be the business, right?
(38:43):
You hear these horror storieslike with with player, quite
literally on the way to work.
We had a 13 episode order.
We were shooting episode Ican't remember now it was eight
or nine and on the way to set Iget the yo man and I was like
what are you talking about?
We haven't shot 13 episodes.
They're like, yeah, they'repulling the plug.
And I was like, well, look,we'll finish, you know a few
(39:03):
episodes plug.
And I was like, well, look,we'll finish, you know a few
episodes.
Like, no, no, they're pullingthe plug tonight.
And when I got to set they werepulling trailers off of set,
like the studio was wasting,like we changed in the bathroom
for the final day, kind of athing.
You know.
It was like they were likewe're done and you just go wow
this business right, you can'tput your worth in it because
it's just, it's pixie dust.
(39:24):
So there there were some hardhitting moments.
You think you're not puttingyour hope in it, but when the
rubber meets the road you'relike, oh man, I put a lot of
eggs in that basket.
Man, my identity is really,really has been in Peter Stone.
And then you got to just goback to basics and you eat good
meals with people you love andwho love you, and you lick your
wounds.
(39:45):
And my dad said something whenI was younger and I don't think
he understood the magnitude ofit he's, he's a big golfer.
And he said look, buddy, youjust got to hit it and forget it
.
And there there's definitely anelement to hitting it and
forgetting it in this game.
Right, hope it goes where youwant, but you can't spend too
much time thinking about it.
Allen Wolf (40:02):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Philip Winchester (40:06):
I alluded to earlier, like when I was at
drama school, when I was 18years old, I wanted to be famous
and I wanted to be a movie staror a TV star or whatever that
meant.
I am not opposed to success, inwhatever form that it does or
doesn't come.
I have been incrediblyfortunate and incredibly
successful.
My goal was always if I can putfood on the table and I can
(40:28):
keep a roof over our heads andprovide for my family, that is
incredibly successful and I feelvery, very fortunate to be able
to do those things as an actorand I've just been an actor, you
know, in terms of legacy.
Now it's about my kids.
There was a great quote that Iheard a long time ago on a
podcast.
I think he was a.
He was a British guy who workedin the banking systems and I
(40:49):
can't remember his name, but hepacked it all up and he moved
his three daughters to the woodsand to literally to live on a
farm in the woods with him andhis wife, and some one of his
friends was like, dude, you'veworked your whole life to be as
successful as you were and highup in the banking and business,
and he was like we all give ourlife to something, all of us.
No matter where you are in thisworld, you're giving your life
(41:10):
to something.
It's your job, it's youraddictions, it's your something.
You are giving your life andyour energy to something, and I
wanted to give my life tosomething that mattered.
I love that and I think themeaning of life is relationships
.
If I can give the things Ilearned to the next generation,
if I can protect my daughters inas much as I can from the
(41:34):
things that the world is tryingto do to them or trying to steal
from them, and if I can be anhonorable husband to my wife and
love her all the way to heaven,I think that's a pretty good
ride, man.
Maybe that's a little cliche,but it really is like man, just
like heaven.
I think that's a pretty goodride, man.
Maybe that's a little cliche,but it really is like man, just
like.
Okay, all this stuff here issort of temporary right.
So I remember being in LA forthe premiere of Batman and it
(41:55):
was the one with Tom Hardy, soBane and all that and I remember
the fanfare, like the buildupfor Dark Knight was like this is
going to be, oh my gosh,everything.
And then it came in.
I think it was at the arc light, right.
The premise was there, and itcame and went.
And guess what happened thenext day?
Nothing happened the next day.
It was.
It came and went.
It's a great movie, okay,that's it.
(42:16):
I remember really, it planted aseed and I went huh, I'm going
to spend my whole life tryingfor that next success or trying
for that next job.
And that lie of the next job isgoing to make me happy.
That next job is going to makeme better.
That next job is going to bethe thing where I don't have to
work as much and I can focus onmy family.
It's all rubbish.
I love my job, but my familyman that's just become.
(42:38):
It's my reason to get up in themorning.
You know, if I can be a gooddad and a good friend and a good
husband, that's a good way togo, I think.
Allen Wolf (42:46):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much for being myguest.
Philip Winchester (42:49):
Oh, Allen, it's so good to see you.
It's a great trip down memorylane.
Allen Wolf (42:58):
Oh, yes, and I loved hearing your stories and just
how encouraging your career andyour life lessons have been.
Philip Winchester (43:01):
I feel really honored to share them with you,
and we have shared a lot andit's been fun to see you go as
well, man, and to become a greatfather and a great husband.
It's really beautiful, brother.
Allen Wolf (43:10):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Philip Winchester (43:12):
If you work in entertainment.
Allen Wolf (43:13):
If you work in entertainment, check out the
complimentary courses and otherresources available at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf and I'm afilmmaker and an author.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywoodorg to
discover how you can getinvolved.
Today, we are joined by actorPhilip Winchester.
(00:26):
Philip trained at theprestigious London Academy of
Music and Dramatic Art and hiscareer quickly took off with
roles in Thunderbirds andFlyboys.
Philip received criticalacclaim for his performance as
Edmund in the RSC's productionof King Lear, which toured
globally, and then he played thelead role in the psychological
(00:48):
thriller In My Sleep that waswritten and directed by yours
truly.
His television career includeslead roles in Crusoe, the
Emmy-nominated Strike Back, thePlayer, chicago Justice and Law
Order SVU.
He also stars in the filmsRogue, endangered Species and is
featured in the Netflix seriesRansom Canyon.
(01:10):
Welcome, philip, it's so niceto be here.
It's great to have you Now.
You and I have been friends formany years, yes, but I believe
I'm in a rarefied class offriends who got to see you die
three times when you performedin King Lear for the RSC.
Philip Winchester (01:32):
That's right.
Did you come three times?
Allen Wolf (01:34):
Yeah, in Stratford-upon-Avon, in New York
City and in Los Angeles.
Philip Winchester (01:38):
Los Angeles, that's right.
Allen Wolf (01:40):
Three times.
Philip Winchester (01:41):
Oh, so much fun.
Allen Wolf (01:42):
I prefer seeing you living.
Philip Winchester (01:44):
Thank you, thank you.
Allen Wolf (01:45):
It was an amazing experience to see you in those
shows in those different cities,even going back to where
Shakespeare got his start.
How did that experience impactyour growth as an actor?
Philip Winchester (01:56):
You know it's funny.
I think about it quite oftennow as I'm getting into my 40s.
That happened.
I was gosh.
I was 25, 26 years old and Ijust thought, yeah, this is what
people do.
They, you know, go to you,train in London, you get into
the RSC.
Hopefully you're lucky enoughto work with someone like Ian
McKellen and Trevor Nunn andtravel the world.
It was an extraordinaryexperience.
(02:16):
I think the biggest takeawayfrom the RSC and from Ian
McKellen being King Lear wasthat he would come out every
night and do it differently, orat least try to do it
differently.
King Lear is extraordinarilycomplex and hard, like the role
of King Lear in King Lear is Ithink it's one of the biggest
roles next to Hamlet perhaps andIan would come out and he would
(02:38):
change his inflection on onepart or try and make it mean
something else and try somethingelse with the actors on stage
every night and I remembersitting backstage or waiting in
the wings to come on with someof the younger actors, as I was,
and we would be listening andwe would look at each other and
go.
He did it.
He did it different tonight, hedid something different and
there was just this really steeplearning curve of new audience.
(02:59):
It's the same material.
How do we do it different?
How do we do it different?
How do we make it interesting?
It was such an amazingexperience to watch him do that
and to watch someone so wellversed in their craft just take
command of that stage everynight and do such a good job
with it.
I look back on it and thinkjust how fortunate I was to be a
part of that, because I wasn'tsupposed to be in london for
(03:20):
those auditions.
I was going out to london withmy mom to see, and while I was
there the phone rang and I thinkit was kind of like, what are
you doing next week?
And I was like, oh, I'm gettingon a plane and going back to LA
.
And they said, no, you shouldstay for a couple more days and
you should come and meet TrevorNunn and do this audition.
And so I went and met him andit ended up working out, which
was amazing.
Allen Wolf (03:37):
Wow, and what an adventure going all over the
world performing that showReally incredible.
Philip Winchester (03:42):
We started in Stratford-upon-Avon and then we
started going around the world.
We started in Singapore at theEsplanade Theater in Singapore,
we were at the National Theaterin Melbourne and then we went to
New Zealand.
We went to Wellington andAuckland, then we had a bit of a
break and we picked up the paceagain in Brooklyn at BAM, and
(04:03):
then we were at the Guthrie inMinneapolis and then we were in
Royce Hall at UCLA and then wefinished in the West End.
So it was about a year ofreally depressing material.
King Lear and the Seagull Iremember looking at everybody.
One day we were backstage inLondon in the West End and we
realized we'd been sloggingthrough this really heavy
(04:25):
material for a year.
But what a gift to work.
Allen Wolf (04:31):
I remember you saying I think you were on stage
, maybe in Singapore, and youblanked out on your lines and
you were thinking of beavers orsomething.
Do you remember this?
Philip Winchester (04:43):
So we, you know they call it drying or
going up or something like that,you know, and on camera it's
absolutely fine.
You just say I'm really sorry,can I, can I, can we start over?
So the funny thing about thisthis moment was we were in
Auckland, new Zealand.
Peter Jackson was there, he wasin the front row and I was like
, okay, I'm going to kill ittonight.
We're going to get into someLord of the Rings action here
(05:05):
and Edmund starts the play withthis monologue.
You know he starts out Thounature art, my goddess, to thy
laws my services are bound.
Wherefore should I stand in theplague of custom and permit the
curiosity of nations to depriveme?
And I remember I kind of, Ilooked up, this spotlight that
I'd never seen before hit me, itwas like a laser beam burned
(05:26):
through my head and I completelyand utterly dried.
I mean, I couldn't have toldyou my name, I couldn't have
told you what I was wearing orthe color of my boots.
It was just gone and the firstthought that came out of this
(05:49):
quagmire of mud in my head washuh, I wonder why badgers have
white stripes on their faces.
And I went okay, and I, I thinkI kind of got thou nature art,
my goddess and I just like thefloor opened up.
We, we trained at drama school.
We train for these moments bytelling jokes in front of the
class over and over and overagain.
(06:10):
So you'd initially get a laughand then the laugh would half,
and it would half again, andthen you'd just be standing
there in this uncomfortablesilence where time stood still
Right.
So I'm sure, in the grandscheme of scheme of things, it
was like I don't know, like a,like a five second drive, but in
my head you could have driven asemi, through it, built a house
(06:31):
, had a helicopter, land on theroof, thrown a party, and all I
did was call out my, mypartner's name, who his name was
ben mages, and he was playingedgar, and I just went edgar,
and he came out.
And he came out like right oncue because I think he heard it,
(07:06):
he heard me go, and he came out.
And he came out like right oncue because I think he heard it
he brutal just went up and itdidn't come back.
You know, and that's the beautyof live theater, right?
I think, secretly, the audienceis hoping for that sometimes,
(07:26):
because they get to ride it outwith you and they're like what
are you going to do?
Allen Wolf (07:28):
That's why I think, when an audience is watching a
show where there are children oranimals, they're just
completely fascinated, becauseyou just don't know what they're
going to do, what's going to gowrong.
Yes, yes, amazing that theytrained you in drama school how
to deal with situations likethat.
Philip Winchester (07:44):
Well, yeah, obviously it didn't work
brilliantly.
It didn't, because I, I, I doremember thinking in that space
like this is it's shorter thanyou think, Take a breath and
find it, take a breath and findit and it just, it just didn't
work.
Allen Wolf (07:58):
Now looking back when did you first decide you
wanted to be an actor?
Philip Winchester (08:02):
I was raised by a single mother for the first
like four or five years of mylife, and I watched her really
do everything she could toprovide and she met a really
great guy who she ended upmarrying, who, while my mom was
working nights at a nursing homethis is I'm.
You know, I'm six, seven yearsold.
At this point, my dad, my nownew dad, is taking courses at
Montana State University and oneof his courses was a drama
(08:25):
course, and so my mom wasworking nights in a nursing home
.
I would come out ofkindergarten or first grade, she
would pick me up and drop meoff at Montana State University
with my dad and I would hang outbackstage with all these
theater actors, with Joel Janke,who's he headed up Montana
Shakespeare in the Parks parkshere, and I watched these men
(08:45):
and women learn their lines likego from a literally a blank
stage with a ghost light tohaving boxes and scripts in
their hands, and then the flatsand that would come in, and then
a few props would come in, andso the progression of building
characters and things like that,and I just I grew up with
actors and I thought, well, thisis, this is, this is what
people do, and then probably youknow, now that I'm older, I can
(09:07):
look back and see that actingwas a great way for me to act
out literally, quite quiteliterally, to act out on things
that I wasn't quite aware of,that were going on in my psyche
and things I was dealing withabout childhood and and other
insecurities that we deal withas young adults and as kids, and
it was a way of dealing withthat, probably of being on stage
and being silly and being theclass clown but getting
(09:28):
recognition for it on a biggerlevel.
So I remember saying to my momand dad in high school like I
want to be an actor.
My mom and dad were brilliantbecause they said okay.
You know, they could have saiddon't be ridiculous, the chances
of it working are 0.001%.
They didn't.
They said okay and then theybacked it up with a brilliant
proposition.
My mom actually said if youwant to be an actor, you have to
(09:51):
go to drama school in London.
And I don't think she realizedwhat an impactful statement that
was, because to me as a young Imean I was a freshman or
sophomore in high school at thetime and was trying to make
these decisions.
Looking back, you're just like,yeah, great, thanks, mom, she's
agreeing to what I want to do.
I win.
But looking back, it was thisreally brave thing that she did
(10:13):
as a parent, because she said,okay, do it, go somewhere else,
experience a different culture,spend time with family that you
know but don't know that wellyet.
And so my whole life wascompletely inverted and I was
thrown into a culture that Ithought I understood but didn't.
I got to hang out with familythat I only knew through
vacations and good times, and Igot to go through life with them
(10:36):
for, you know, about sevenyears.
So it was a really incrediblegift.
I'm not even sure my mom knowsthat she did that or knows that
it was that much of a gift, butyou know, looking back, I can
see what a brilliant offer thatwas from her or I guess it was a
, you know.
She said, fine, do it, but doit this way, you know.
Allen Wolf (10:52):
It is interesting how we can get so focused on,
maybe, that career that we want,the training that we want, that
we forget the important part ofcharacter building.
That can actually be even moreimportant than that, because it
gives you the stamina, thecharacter, to actually go
through the journey that you'retrying to do.
Philip Winchester (11:12):
Right, you're exactly right.
And you know just to kind ofjump onto the side of that it
you know, as an actor, as adirector, as people who are
trying to emulate real life, ifyou have no life experiences, if
you just you know, you're justtrying for that next goal and
working towards success, success, success.
You have nothing to draw fromright.
(11:34):
London was an incredible giftbecause it was hard, you know.
So I was able to be broken intoa thousand pieces and I had the
love of a family.
My grandmother was just themost incredible woman.
She ran a bed and breakfast inEngland, you know, by herself,
for probably about probably 40,50 years.
(11:57):
I lived at this bed andbreakfast.
So I had this really great lifewhere I was at drama school.
In the daytime I rode amotorbike back and forth between
London and where my grandmalived, just outside of London,
and then all the guests who werestaying at the bed and
breakfast, which is pre Airbnb,right, so it was.
We had directors who werestaying and shooting.
There's a television series outthere called Carnation Street
or East Enders, and we had thesedirectors who would stay there
(12:19):
because it was close and it wascheap.
Grandma had a single.
You had a single bed in yourroom and there was a box of
Weetabix on the table in themorning, and so it was great.
But all these characters camethrough the farm and I got to
see them and kind of hear theirstories about working in the
business or businessmen who werecoming through from all over
Europe to do stuff in London.
It was just a really neatculture of people and
(12:40):
relationships that my grandmahad created and I was so
privileged to be a part of that.
It was really beautiful.
That's amazing.
Allen Wolf (12:48):
One of your I think career highlights would be
Strike Back.
Would you agree on that?
Yeah, and you performed many ofyour own stunts on the show.
Can you share some memorablestunt experiences?
Philip Winchester (13:04):
Yeah, you bet .
So Strike Back was funny, justlike we didn't know how good we
had it on at the RoyalShakespeare Company.
I don't think Sully and I andsome of the other core people
who made Strike Back reallyunderstood how good we had it
until we got thrown out of thatsystem and put into the network
system of television.
You know, the thing that was soextraordinary about Strike Back
was we'd get our scripts.
Hbo would go go make it.
(13:25):
Cary Antholis was the head ofdrama over there at the time and
he was brilliant.
He loved the show and he justsaid make it as close to this as
possible.
But I trust you guys You've hadall the military training.
We have military advisors onset.
We have a core group of peoplewho now make up Strike Back.
If it's not exactly like it ison the page, but it's still fun,
just do it, just make sure it'sfun.
So there was this really thiskind of unicorn world where we
(13:48):
had a.
You know the outlines of whatthey wanted, but we could also
go off roading a little bit ifwe wanted to and have fun with
it and it really worked and Ithink part of that was
accidental.
So I remember episode I thinkit was episode three or four of
the first season this gal, thatStonebridge, the character I
play in the in the series, she'stied up and she's got a bomb
(14:09):
vest on and they know that theycan't undo it.
And so he knows he has to saygoodbye to her and he knows he
has to leg it because theclock's ticking literally on her
chest.
And we had this, this wonderfulSouth African special effects
crew.
How close do you want to be?
And we were like what do youmean?
He's like, do you want to be inthe explosion?
Kind of like, well, yeah, Imean relatively close.
(14:32):
Right, we want to be in it,like how far?
He said well, and the directorcame up and he's like, you know,
with zoom lenses we can make itlook like you're really close
or we can, but we're going toset up kind of close to you so
it's got to be within 30 or 40feet.
So we were like, yeah, I mean,we'll be safe, right.
It's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, you'll be totally safe, right?
So meanwhile they're settingthe shot up, they're filling the
bomb pot up with you know allthe stuff.
(14:53):
They fill it up with the dustand the gasoline and stuff like
that and we're having gel put onour the back of our necks and
all over the back of our.
Anything that's exposed getsfire gel on it.
We're in the shot, we run away,they hit it, boom, the thing
goes off and we, it throws us tothe ground and we look up
afterwards and it was a reallyintense, emotional, emotional
scene because stonebridge loseshis, loses a friend.
(15:13):
But after the shot and afterthe cameras were turned off, we
were like, oh my gosh, that wasawesome man, that was incredible
.
And I think the producers alsosaw.
Well, if these guys are willingto do it, why don't we keep
doing that?
Why don't we keep going downthat road and exploring what
this means to have a show whereour lead actors really do as
much of their stunts as possible?
(15:34):
I think the beauty of the StrikeBack world and incorporating
stunts with Sully and I was wedefinitely had stuntmen who did
some really crazy dangerousthings, but we also had these
opportunities to do things thatlooked really dangerous.
But I mean, you know, if yousaid, okay, we're going to step
off of a helicopter onto a train, then you're like that's,
(15:55):
that's completely insane.
But when you have a really goodhelicopter pilot and the
train's moving at a constantspeed, it's just a step.
It looks insane and it looksscary and it sounds bonkers.
But all these things werereally thought out so that they
were actually relatively safe.
Allen Wolf (16:11):
I remember you sending me a picture of an
explosion where it kind of waslicking at the side of your face
.
Do you remember that I?
Philip Winchester (16:22):
I do remember that.
I do.
So that was the one case wherewe were chasing a bad guy down
this stairwell and he wasthrowing grenades kind of up
behind him past us.
We were on this rooftop in CapeTown and it was really windy.
We had a bomb pot set up downthis stairwell and they said,
(16:42):
okay, we're going to light itoff and it's just going to come
out this doorway and it'll goright past you guys.
But because that wind wascircling around, that bomb pot
went off and that gas and thefire and all that stuff which
has made you know thepropellants that they use burn
really quickly so that if thingslike this happen they don't
stay on you.
But it came up and it hit thatwall of wind and it just
(17:03):
splashed to the sides.
Where Sully and I were.
We kind of felt maybe somethingwas off and so both of us were
sort of ready for it.
But you know our camera guys,they had protective gear on and
it burned all their camera gearand it burned all their
protective gear and that was theclosest we got to things going
wrong.
We got a little, a little red,but we didn't lose any hair,
thank goodness.
Allen Wolf (17:21):
You were in multiple shows by.
What was it like working inthat world?
Philip Winchester (17:27):
I was in Los Angeles, bob Greenblatt, who was
the head of NBC at the time,pulled me into his office and
said look, dick Wolf is going todo a new show.
It's basically going to be LawOrder.
But in Chicago At the time Iwas like why are you telling me
that?
He said I think you should meetwith Dick Wolf and I was like I
mean OK, I mean fine, I'll meetwith him.
(17:47):
That's not what I've done and Ikind of love this trajectory
that my career was on.
I really enjoyed the excitement, I enjoyed the silly stunts and
I enjoyed that that world ofbeing trained with the military
and traveling around the worldand stuff like that.
And I was like I don't know ifI want to stand in a courtroom.
So when I did meet Dick Wolf athis place, he pulled me into
his office and he said right,bob Greenblatt says you're the
(18:07):
guy.
And I was like this is news tome.
The guy for what?
And he said you know the guy,I'm doing this new show.
And I said yeah.
I said and I don't know whatpossessed me to say this, but I
said I don't think I'm your guy.
I said I jump out ofhelicopters and I punch people
in the face for a living.
And he goes.
He's brilliant, dick Wolf isbrilliant.
And he goes.
Well, look, kid, if you don'tlike it you can quit, and if I
(18:29):
don't like you doing it I'llfire you.
And I was like I think that's apretty good job offer.
Do you have a script that I canread?
And he went nope, but it'll begood.
And I went.
I don't think there's anythingelse I can say.
(18:51):
So our meeting was like it wasprobably like three minutes long
.
So that was my introduction toDick Wolf and the Dick Wolf
universe.
And I was fortunate enough to bechallenged in a completely
different way.
So we did a backdoor pilot on ashow called Chicago PD which
introduced my character, whichwas Peter Stone, which was Ben
Stone's son from the originalLaw and Order.
It was a baptism of fire man.
I mean that legalese.
That's like eight pages ofdialogue every day and closing
(19:11):
arguments and back and forth inthe courtroom.
It is a.
You just got to get in thereand do it, and I was not
prepared for how hard that wasgoing to be and the amount of
work that that was going to be,but it was.
It made me appreciate what Isee on TV.
When you see these people, youknow get up there and do these
closing arguments and do thecourtroom scenes.
It's, it's brutal.
We did 13 episodes of Chicagojustice and then you know the
(19:38):
network world is funny, right,and it didn't.
It didn't go.
But Dick Wolf again wasincredibly kind and I got a
phone call from him and he saidthese are the way these things
go.
Sometimes we don't know why.
Would you like to go over toLaw Order?
And so he really gave me thislife preserver when he didn't
need to.
And I moved from ChicagoJustice over to Law Order SVU
(20:00):
with Mariska Hargitay for twoyears and was the kid who jumped
out of helicopters and punchedpeople in the face.
And then I was getting punchedin the face with the material
and just the reality of how muchwork that was and it was so
good for me as an actor to haveto just buckle down and you know
you just have to do yourhomework every night and it was
a great learning curve.
Allen Wolf (20:20):
You've worked in both British and American
productions.
What are some differences thatyou've noticed between the two?
Philip Winchester (20:27):
Just because I've had the opportunity to live
in England and I don't know howyou feel about this, but
sometimes in the US,particularly Los Angeles,
there'll be more of an emphasison looks and clothes and like
the model element of aproduction, and with the
European things or the Englishthings, it really is about the
(20:48):
work.
Okay, what's our, why are wehere, what are the choices we're
making?
And I love that sort ofchallenging that, coming to
grips with that.
It's like, yeah, you got tolook a certain way, but also
it's so much about the story andabout the words on the page and
serving the story and servingthe project rather than being
selfish and wanting it all to beabout you.
Allen Wolf (21:06):
Well, you've worked in film, TV and theater.
Do you have a preferencebetween the three?
They all scratch differentitches.
Philip Winchester (21:14):
I think Theater is all about preparation
.
The way you know this, makingindependent movies it's time,
costs money.
And with theater you get thisbeautiful window of two, maybe
three months where you're divinginto the script, you're working
script, you're working scenes,you're going way out of the box
and then way under and you'refiguring out what you want to do
(21:35):
, what you want to do, what youwant it to be, and then you
whittle it down.
Whittle it down and then youput it in front of an audience
and you pressure test it and yougo oh, we totally missed that,
we need to go back and we try itagain.
And so you and then, in theory,you always get this immediate
pressure test.
So you go.
I thought that was going to begreat.
The audience really didn'trespond to that.
I'll try something elsetomorrow night.
Film, especially indie film andtelevision, is just I mean,
(22:00):
shoot, you can get a phone callon a Wednesday night, you're on
set Friday morning, you're doinga guest role and you just kind
of have to pull something out ofyour socks and go.
Well, this is what's on thepage, this is what I think this
character should be like, andthen I'll see if it works and
I'll see if the director likesit, and so often you really are
just filling a spot.
(22:20):
That doesn't happen all thetime.
I think the strength of StrikeBack and the strength of Law
Order SVU and Chicago Justicewas our guest roles were
incredible.
I was a prosecutor and thestrength of Law Order, svu and
Chicago Justice was our guestroles were incredible.
I was a prosecutor and thedefense attorneys would come in.
They were always guest rolesfor one or two episodes and I
just remember thinking thesepeople are incredible.
(22:42):
Sometimes TV can be too fast forits own good and you don't get
to live it.
It's still fun because you getto travel and you get to meet
cool people.
Theater you have that time.
That sweet spot maybe is film,where you and the director get
to talk about things and you getto hash out your character and
you get to hash out reasons andthen you get to experiment with
it in front of a camera.
I still think about this, Allen.
(23:03):
You know we did In My Sleep.
We were, we were talking aboutMarcus and him working out of
something called a core lie,that we all operate for better
or worse out of these thingscalled core lies.
Whether you know that weshouldn't believe, but we do and
if we're healthy, we workthrough them and if we're not,
we were like Marcus, we justmedicate, or you know, self
(23:25):
self-medicate, and I loved thatprocess with you and with the,
with the other actors, and I'llI'll never forget that that was
a that was a real turning momentin being turned on to how
powerful film can be because itcan impact your own life and,
hopefully, the people who whosee it as well.
Allen Wolf (23:41):
Wow, that's really encouraging to hear.
It is amazing to think that thefilm came out 15 years ago.
My director's cut came outrecently.
What was it like for you to seeit for the first time after all
these years?
Philip Winchester (23:53):
Honestly, it was hugely encouraging and also
I mean to big you up it'smarvelous storytelling.
So often you turn on the TV andyou're like how did that get
made?
Or how did that end up here?
And it's hard to make stuff,how did that get made?
Or how did that end up here?
And it's hard to make stuff.
(24:15):
But to make it and to make itwell, your character development
and the fact that you didn'tleave anything untied was so
clever and so thought out.
Megan and I watched it the othernight.
We got into bed and we turnedit on and we looked at each
other afterwards and just wentthat is a good movie, that is.
It's a really great thriller.
Sometimes hard work doesn't payoff in terms of like the
product gets.
I don't know.
It gets jostled around in theedit or you lose control of it.
(24:37):
Right, you were very smart andyou, I think, fortunate enough
to maintain that ownership of it, plus the control of the
material, and so it it feelslike correct me if I'm wrong,
but it feels like it still isyour vision, and so I think
that's why it's so good, becauseit wasn't touched by too many
cooks and the director's cut is.
It's great.
I love, like the grade is justa little more modern, those big
(25:00):
shots of LA that kind of reallysteep you in the character of
the city of Los Angeles.
That really helps.
Allen Wolf (25:05):
And you were in every single scene.
I mean that was a lot of work.
What were your hopes that theaudience would experience as
they follow your character'sjourney?
Philip Winchester (25:19):
You very courageously gave a new actor
his first lead role.
I had not led a film, I had notled a television series.
You know I had not led a film,I had not led a television
series.
You know, for me to turn around, and you know, and do this, I
had to basically on the fly, gookay, what works, what doesn't
work, and I learned from,probably from In My Sleep, what
(25:41):
I now use the rest of my career,which is scripts, can change.
So I learned my lines two daysout, I learn the next days and
the day after that, and theneverything else is kind of still
potentially in the edit Sleep,food and sort of conservation of
energy on set, especiallybecause Marcus had to look a
(26:02):
certain way, finding time tocontinue to train and also get
sleep and also get food and alsolearn your lines, and also and
realizing, looking at actors whoI'd admired or roles that I
admire, going, these people areeither crazy or great at time
management, or both, I suppose.
And so time management was areal thing that came out of In
(26:23):
My Sleep.
After all of that, you want toserve the story and you want to
do the story justice, and so myhope with Marcus was to tell
this Hitchcockian tale and tryand get you know.
Try and try and make people beentertained.
I mean, that's that's why I doit.
I like to.
I like to tell stories becausesitting around a dinner table or
(26:44):
at a coffee shop and seeingsomeone respond to something
that you're telling them I findreally fun.
And film is just a broaderversion of that, I feel.
Allen Wolf (26:52):
Well, you've had a busy career and you also have a
family.
You have two girls that you'reraising.
How do you balance your actingcareer with your family life?
Philip Winchester (27:03):
Balancing my career and my family is sort of
a job job choice.
Sometimes you get a job inBulgaria for six weeks and the
girls are in school and my wifeand I made a decision really
early on in my career that wewouldn't be apart for more than
two weeks because we felt thatour marriage was important
enough to protect and ourrelationship was important
(27:25):
enough to protect.
And now, having kids, it's justgone that one step further.
But sometimes in the reality, Ithink COVID, certainly when we
were bubbled up and doing thesethings across the world and you
couldn't have family near you oron set or flown around, it
really changed that, and so thatchallenged our notion of what
we thought was normal and whatwe made normal by having a two
(27:46):
week rule.
And so now we, you know, everyonce in a while I'll have to go
and do an independent filmsomewhere and it's yeah, it's
five, six weeks and I'm awayfrom my family for a big chunk
of time.
I'm really fortunate that whenI'm home, I'm fully home.
So my relationships with mykids, with my two girls I'm
(28:06):
there for breakfast on theweekends.
I'm there for breakfast on theweekends.
I'm there for breakfast, lunchand dinner.
We sit down every night as afamily.
We're incredibly fortunate thatwe've made we do a job and we
put it away in the war chest andwe nibble away at it until the
next job comes, but we do thatin order to protect our family
(28:27):
time.
So really everything outside ofwork that doesn't have me
traveling or has me at home hasme being as involved as I can
with my kids.
So I was coaching football.
I was coaching my daughter's or, sorry, the soccer team going
to dance recitals, anything likethat, reading stories at
nighttime and just being aspresent a father as I can be.
I married an amazing woman whois not only understanding of
what I do but completelyencouraging of it, and she knows
(28:50):
that when that phone rings andit's last minute and I got to go
, I got to go.
Our marriage slogan is to tryand out-serve one another and
she's certainly winning.
Not that we're keeping score,but she's like because I've been
gone there's so many timeswhere I'm gone and she's a
single mom.
The way we balance it is reallypresent, really intentional on
(29:11):
what we are and who we are whenI am home.
I had a moment the other day.
I didn't know my biologicalfather.
I was just completelyoverwhelmed by this really
strong sense that God hasallowed me to spend not only my
time with my kids, but the timethat my dad didn't spend with me
(29:31):
, with my kids, it was just thisfree gift, you know, and I just
thought, man, I was so thankfulfor that moment because I just
thought, yeah, that's prettyincredible, and I know how lucky
we are.
Allen Wolf (29:41):
You mentioned God.
What has your spiritual journeylooked like?
Philip Winchester (29:45):
I was raised in a really religious household
and probably tried to buck it.
As an adolescent, I had areally amazing experience of God
in an Anglican church in the UK.
It was a spinoff of, or it wasa church plant from, a church
called HTB and it was this small, charismatic Anglican church.
If you can believe those two gotogether.
(30:05):
It was really full of the HolySpirit, really full of young
people worshiping God andexperiencing God and living in
community together and I thoughtI'm going to show all you
you're all crazy religiousfanatics.
Long story short, like God justshowed up and wiped the floor
with me and that was 20 plusyears ago.
Allen Wolf (30:22):
Why would you go to that church to begin with?
Philip Winchester (30:24):
A gal came up to me on the tube and I had
been out partying with friendsand was drinking and partying
and being silly on the tube andshe came up and was like, hey,
you guys need to settle down.
You're gonna be careful, you'llfall on the tracks, kind of a
thing.
And I was like, oh, pretty girl, let's talk to her.
And she obviously got my number.
She called me a week later andsaid hey, you want to come up to
(30:46):
London and meet me?
I said, hey, you want to comeup to London and meet me?
I was like, yeah, pretty girl,let's go, roll my cigarettes in
my sleeve, ride my motorbike upto London, I'll show you.
We had a coffee in SouthKensington and she said, look,
the real reason I invited you uphere was I would love to invite
you to church.
And I was like, oh, yeah, I'llgo to church and I'll show you
that you're all crazy nutbags.
And then went in there and Godwas like oh, and just kind of
(31:06):
had a real experience of peaceand purpose and I felt like I
was home.
You know what I mean?
I felt a real sense of identityand purpose and comfort in the
presence of this God.
Allen Wolf (31:20):
And this all happened going to church one
time.
Philip Winchester (31:24):
I'd gone to church as a kid.
I was being judgmental.
It was judgmental, veryreligious, and I had no concept
of relation, religion beingpeople going to God.
And there's this relationalelement of Jesus, of Nazareth,
who says no, no, I want to cometo you and I want to meet you
and I've actually made you in away that, if you let me, I will
(31:44):
best show you how to live thislife.
And there are boundaries inyour life that make you better,
not worse, and they're there foryour health, not to destroy you
.
And that concept of boundariesas a young drama school student
in London was like yeah, right,and there was just this very
real sense of I matter to God,we all matter to him.
(32:05):
He cares about us and he'screated us in such a way to live
.
We can live these incrediblyfull lives.
And it's just trusting him Liketrust the story.
The story is actually good.
If you trust it Like, I think,probably anyone with faith.
Some days it's like, yeah, rocksolid, let's go.
Other days it's like, oh mygosh, what am I doing and where
(32:28):
are we at?
And why did he put the tree inthe middle of the garden?
That's a really mean thing todo.
If he was a loving God, hewouldn't have done that.
And then you back up a thousandfeet and go well, maybe it's
because we're all one or twosteps away from blowing our
lives apart every day and he wasjust showing us that, hey, you
have to make hard decisionsevery day.
This is real Life, is it's good?
(32:48):
I'm here for you to lean on andto trust that spiritual journey
is a daily.
It's a daily journey, brother.
Allen Wolf (32:53):
Did you have an impression of God that changed
then through that experience?
Philip Winchester (32:59):
A hundred percent.
I had a completely false viewof who God was and of what my
relationship with him was, andso it became much more.
There is the God of theuniverse, but we're also allowed
to talk to him like a friend,and that's truly incredible.
You know that that reallyrocked me, when I realized that
there's this, there's a creator,god who's also a father, god
(33:22):
who's also a friend, you know,and that very much changed in
those in those moments at um atSt Mary's Church there in London
.
Allen Wolf (33:30):
You had mentioned earlier that you didn't have a
relationship with yourbiological father.
Do you think that thatexperience impacted the way that
you looked at God?
Philip Winchester (33:41):
Almost certainly and that was maybe
perhaps affirmed during myyounger years of going to a
religious church where it waslike, if God was there, it was
there for punishment and Ididn't have a sense of what a
good father looked like.
So there was no sense of likewhy would a father be good?
They leave or they punish?
(34:02):
Those lies and those scalesjust kind of fell away in that
moment in London and look, Imean, you know, I felt what I
felt in that moment was justthis voice that said I love you,
I've always loved you and Iwant to be with you, and it was
like, yeah, why would I turnaway from that?
That moment really transformedthat initial pain and the
(34:25):
initial lack of masculinity,lack of fatherhood or just a not
true perception of whatfatherhood was, and it was
replaced by this piece.
Allen Wolf (34:37):
How did that new faith impact your artistic
career?
Philip Winchester (34:41):
I remember having discussions with my
pastors about certain roles oryou know, can I do this, can I
not do this?
And not being sure about againwhat the boundaries were.
So fast forward.
You know 20, 23, 24 years nowof being in the business, I have
a much more stronger sense ofwho I am as a believer and just
who I am as a man.
What do I want my kids to seewhen they grow up?
(35:03):
It's not about quote unquotesuccess and all that stuff and
the shiny things in themagazines, and it was at one
point.
I always feel no matter whatgrateful for the work, no matter
what it is I really do, becauseI think that work begets work.
I think that you learn on everysingle job and my faith has
(35:23):
influenced my work because nowwhen I go to a job, I say in my
prayers I say Lord, thank youfor this job.
Now, what's the job?
And without fail, I'll meetsomeone who's just super dope
and just I'm like, oh my gosh.
And like we, we hit it offabout life or we hit it off
about something that's going onin the world, and I'm like, okay
(35:46):
, this is the reason I'm here,you know what I mean.
And making really coolrelationships on jobs, like the
work is the work and it'simportant, but the people and
the relationships like that's,that's everything.
I've been really honored to bea part of, everything that I'm a
part of, and allow the Lord togo all right.
Now, here's this, over here.
I need you to do this whileyou're doing this or we're in
(36:07):
this place for this reason, andso I think that's what's changed
, certainly in the last fewyears, certainly probably since
COVID, especially where we werelike, are we ever going to work
again?
And so every job's a gift, youknow, and the people you work
with.
Allen Wolf (36:19):
How do you stay spiritually healthy while
working in entertainment?
Philip Winchester (36:23):
I have a group of guys that meets every
Friday morning when I'm home.
We hash it out.
We're not all professionallyinvolved in media or in film and
television, you know, they'reall dads.
So I have accountability.
I have people I can talk to andsay, hey, this thing's pinged
up and great guys were like,yeah, you should probably not do
that, you dumb ass, or justlike to stand with you, you know
.
So it's accountability.
I talk with my wife multipletimes a day and I set aside time
(36:46):
to be in front of God.
I set aside time every,especially when I'm away.
It's really like, you know,before the gym, before breakfast
or whatever it is.
It's like I spend time inscripture and I spend time with
him trying to figure out whathe's trying to tell me, or you
know what's going on with theday, and so it starts that way.
And then I think thankfulness,just having a heart of gratitude
, because this is silly andyou'd never know how long you
(37:07):
get to do it, and so I'm reallygrateful for everything that I
get to be a part of.
Allen Wolf (37:11):
Can you tell us about a moment in your career
when you felt discouraged andyou wondered what would happen
next?
Philip Winchester (37:16):
There was quite a few years where I just
went back to back to back toback to back projects and they
were like making it like theywere offers.
The phone would ring and therewould be other offers on the
table and you and your agentwere doing that insane thing of
picking between projects, ofgoing well, this one's this and
that one's that, and what do youreally want to do?
(37:37):
And so six, seven, eight yearsof that, just like boom, boom,
boom, boom, boom.
And then my daughter, james,was born.
I had two weeks off.
The producers on SVU gave metwo weeks off, which was
incredible.
I came home unclicking Jamesfrom the backseat and my agent
called hey buddy.
And you can always tell rightwith agents, cause they're like
(37:58):
hey, man, it's like greatestthing in the world, or yo buddy,
yo.
And I was like, oh, I got theyo buddy, or yo buddy, yo.
And I was like, oh, I got theyo buddy, and he goes.
So, uh, they're not going torenew you on svu.
And I was like what do you mean?
They're not going to?
What do you mean?
We?
We have a four-year contract.
It's two years in is the other?
They're not going to renew you.
Okay, well, surely there's amistake, like, well, this is
(38:22):
what do you mean?
This is what we do.
I haven't done anything wrong.
There was no indication thatthat was going to be the case.
And then I had to go back towork three more episodes, it was
fired and I had to go back andbe like, hey, let's keep playing
ball.
Everybody Like it was justbrutal, you know, and that was
worse than because the businesscan be the business, right?
(38:43):
You hear these horror storieslike with with player, quite
literally on the way to work.
We had a 13 episode order.
We were shooting episode Ican't remember now it was eight
or nine and on the way to set Iget the yo man and I was like
what are you talking about?
We haven't shot 13 episodes.
They're like, yeah, they'repulling the plug.
And I was like, well, look,we'll finish, you know a few
(39:03):
episodes plug.
And I was like, well, look,we'll finish, you know a few
episodes.
Like, no, no, they're pullingthe plug tonight.
And when I got to set they werepulling trailers off of set,
like the studio was wasting,like we changed in the bathroom
for the final day, kind of athing.
You know.
It was like they were likewe're done and you just go wow
this business right, you can'tput your worth in it because
it's just, it's pixie dust.
(39:24):
So there there were some hardhitting moments.
You think you're not puttingyour hope in it, but when the
rubber meets the road you'relike, oh man, I put a lot of
eggs in that basket.
Man, my identity is really,really has been in Peter Stone.
And then you got to just goback to basics and you eat good
meals with people you love andwho love you, and you lick your
wounds.
(39:45):
And my dad said something whenI was younger and I don't think
he understood the magnitude ofit he's, he's a big golfer.
And he said look, buddy, youjust got to hit it and forget it
.
And there there's definitely anelement to hitting it and
forgetting it in this game.
Right, hope it goes where youwant, but you can't spend too
much time thinking about it.
Allen Wolf (40:02):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Philip Winchester (40:06):
I alluded to earlier, like when I was at
drama school, when I was 18years old, I wanted to be famous
and I wanted to be a movie staror a TV star or whatever that
meant.
I am not opposed to success, inwhatever form that it does or
doesn't come.
I have been incrediblyfortunate and incredibly
successful.
My goal was always if I can putfood on the table and I can
(40:28):
keep a roof over our heads andprovide for my family, that is
incredibly successful and I feelvery, very fortunate to be able
to do those things as an actorand I've just been an actor, you
know, in terms of legacy.
Now it's about my kids.
There was a great quote that Iheard a long time ago on a
podcast.
I think he was a.
He was a British guy who workedin the banking systems and I
(40:49):
can't remember his name, but hepacked it all up and he moved
his three daughters to the woodsand to literally to live on a
farm in the woods with him andhis wife, and some one of his
friends was like, dude, you'veworked your whole life to be as
successful as you were and highup in the banking and business,
and he was like we all give ourlife to something, all of us.
No matter where you are in thisworld, you're giving your life
(41:10):
to something.
It's your job, it's youraddictions, it's your something.
You are giving your life andyour energy to something, and I
wanted to give my life tosomething that mattered.
I love that and I think themeaning of life is relationships
.
If I can give the things Ilearned to the next generation,
if I can protect my daughters inas much as I can from the
(41:34):
things that the world is tryingto do to them or trying to steal
from them, and if I can be anhonorable husband to my wife and
love her all the way to heaven,I think that's a pretty good
ride, man.
Maybe that's a little cliche,but it really is like man, just
like heaven.
I think that's a pretty goodride, man.
Maybe that's a little cliche,but it really is like man, just
like.
Okay, all this stuff here issort of temporary right.
So I remember being in LA forthe premiere of Batman and it
(41:55):
was the one with Tom Hardy, soBane and all that and I remember
the fanfare, like the buildupfor Dark Knight was like this is
going to be, oh my gosh,everything.
And then it came in.
I think it was at the arc light, right.
The premise was there, and itcame and went.
And guess what happened thenext day?
Nothing happened the next day.
It was.
It came and went.
It's a great movie, okay,that's it.
(42:16):
I remember really, it planted aseed and I went huh, I'm going
to spend my whole life tryingfor that next success or trying
for that next job.
And that lie of the next job isgoing to make me happy.
That next job is going to makeme better.
That next job is going to bethe thing where I don't have to
work as much and I can focus onmy family.
It's all rubbish.
I love my job, but my familyman that's just become.
(42:38):
It's my reason to get up in themorning.
You know, if I can be a gooddad and a good friend and a good
husband, that's a good way togo, I think.
Allen Wolf (42:46):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you so much for being myguest.
Philip Winchester (42:49):
Oh, Allen, it's so good to see you.
It's a great trip down memorylane.
Allen Wolf (42:58):
Oh, yes, and I loved hearing your stories and just
how encouraging your career andyour life lessons have been.
Philip Winchester (43:01):
I feel really honored to share them with you,
and we have shared a lot andit's been fun to see you go as
well, man, and to become a greatfather and a great husband.
It's really beautiful, brother.
Allen Wolf (43:10):
Thank you, I appreciate that.
Philip Winchester (43:12):
If you work in entertainment.
Allen Wolf (43:13):
If you work in entertainment, check out the
complimentary courses and otherresources available at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
You can find our other shows,transcripts, links and more at
navigatinghollywoodorg.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!