Film Producer and Broadway Investor Rob Stillman recounts the ambitious journey of translating the powerful play "Freud's Last Session" into a movie, with Anthony Hopkins breathing life into Freud. His insight into the allure of challenging roles for A-list actors and the intimate process of film production shines a light on the artistry behind making a movie. Rob also reflects on his beginnings with "The God Committee," tracing his path from off-Broadway to the heart of Hollywood.
In a world quick to dismiss different viewpoints, our conversation takes a turn towards the significance of maintaining meaningful dialogue and the value of faith and friendships beyond our differences. Rob shares his perspective on success, measured not in box office receipts but in the laughter and love of family—especially the bond with his children. Join us for an episode that doesn't just entertain but also questions, connects, and celebrates the stories that make us human, all through the lens of a man who's seen the best and brightest of what show business has to offer.
Navigating Hollywood
Rob Stillman IMDb
Freud's Last Session
The Sound of Violet Official Site
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Allen Wolf (00:04):
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf, and I'ma filmmaker and an author.
You can check out my latestmovie, The Sound of Violet,
which is available wherever youstream movies.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.
org to discover how you can getinvolved.
Today, we're joined by RobertStillman, who is a film
producer, entrepreneur, andinvestor.
(00:35):
His first off-Broadway show,The God Committee, was made into
a movie starring Kelsey Grammer, Julia Stiles and Janine
Garofalo.
He helped produce theaward-winning play Freud's Last
Session, which launchedproductions in New York, Los
Angeles, Chicago and Sydney.
That show has been turned intoa movie starring Anthony Hopkins
(00:56):
as Sigmund Freud and MatthewGood as CS Lewis.
Rob has also invested inBroadway shows such as A
Gentleman's Guide to Love andMurder Puffs and Amazing Grace.
Welcome, Rob.
Rob Stillman (01:11):
It's a pleasure to be here, happy to say, this is
my first podcast I've ever done.
So.
Allen Wolf (01:16):
This is historic, wow, and everyone listening or
watching is here to witness thisamazing occasion.
Rob Stillman (01:24):
So happy to be invited, so I appreciate it.
Allen Wolf (01:26):
Yes, absolutely, with a huge congratulations on
Freud's Last Session beingturned into a motion picture.
Was that always your plan?
I had a plan.
Rob Stillman (01:36):
I got derailed.
I ended up meeting with CarolynRosy Copeland, who's a producer
in New York, with an idea of myown, and she said I have this
other project, maybe you'd liketo look at it and it was the God
Committee and that wasbasically 12 Angry Men kind of
set in a hospital.
(01:56):
The people that decide who'sgoing to get a transplant is
called the God Committee.
They had picked out a candidate, he was in prep, there was a
heart on the way and then hedies in prep and then they have
to reconvene and they have 45minutes to decide who's going to
get the heart.
That's on its way and they alldisagree on who should get it.
(02:19):
That was kind of a really coolproject and that obviously, like
you said, got turned into afilm with Kelsey Grammer and
Jeanine Garoppolo.
But I had nothing to do withthe movie side of that.
But then from there Mark StGermain had written the God
Committee and then he invited meto a table read of Freud's last
session as soon as it was over.
(02:41):
I was like I'd love to beinvolved in any way, shape and
form and I'll do whatever I canto help.
And it eventually made it toOff-Broadway and ran for two
years.
Wow.
Allen Wolf (02:53):
That's amazing.
Rob Stillman (02:55):
Pretty crazy for a small little play.
Allen Wolf (02:58):
Totally.
And then you took it on theroad, because I remember seeing
it in Santa Monica and itstarred Judd Hirsch, and Was it
Tom Kavanaugh?
Rob Stillman (03:07):
Yes, Tom Kavanaugh , who was the lead in Ed, as you
might recall.
And they're great, super greatguys to work with and it's been.
That's been interesting as well, Like everyone that's been
involved with Freud from NewYork to Chicago to LA.
Like they find the materialfascinating and they really
(03:30):
enjoy it because it's atwo-hander, one act, no
intermission, so there's reallynowhere to hide, and so I think
actors enjoy that.
It puts them even on a highertightrope, if you know what I
mean.
And it was interesting toobecause we had the screening in
LA in November at AFI forFreud's last session of the
movie and Judd Hirsch came tothe film, to the screen.
Allen Wolf (03:53):
Oh, that's great.
Did he say something to youafterward?
Rob Stillman (03:57):
No, I saw him coming down the steps and I said
, hey, I don't know if youremember, but I was one of the
producers on the play and I metyou at Santa Monica.
And he's like oh yeah, verynice, very nice and just kept
moving.
Allen Wolf (04:13):
So I mean it seemed like a huge get to get Anthony
Hopkins to play the lead role ofSigmund Freud.
How did that all happen?
Rob Stillman (04:23):
The way Hopkins came to the table is.
Rick Nassita, who is one of theproducers on the film, was at
one time his agent and I guesshe had gotten the script he
shared it with.
See, I can't call him anythingbut Sir Anthony Hopkins, but he
actually goes by Tony, right,right right, yeah, right.
(04:44):
So it doesn't feel right.
Allen Wolf (04:46):
So we'll call him Tony.
It will be very casual duringthis.
Rob Stillman (04:50):
I just want him to be comfortable.
But he gave it to Tony, he readit and I think, as I recall,
rick told me like the next dayhe was like I want to do this,
wow, amazing.
Allen Wolf (05:03):
So which is pretty?
Rob Stillman (05:04):
you know that it gives someone a script and it's
like you're lucky if you hearback from him in a month.
But yeah, it's like the nextday he called him and said I
really like it.
And then Tony and Matt workingtogether for like a year prior
to filming starting, and he justshared like different texts and
emails with me of like how muchhe was investing in the part
(05:28):
Just notes and like ideas andlike I think there was one email
that Matt had printed out fromAnthony that was like 12 pages
long, like really just delvinginto it.
So he really dug in, he reallywanted to understand it, he
really wanted to portraysomething with real depth and it
(05:50):
was interesting to like andthis is going to sound like name
dropping, but we just had ascreening in New York on Tuesday
and Jim Gaffigan was there.
He was just talking about how,like what came through and how
the depth of the character thatAnthony and Matthew good both
(06:10):
display on the screen.
He was really impressed with.
Allen Wolf (06:15):
Amazing.
So they work together, buildingup to a year, and what was it
like seeing that come to life onthe set?
It was very difficult.
Rob Stillman (06:24):
First of all, he's 84 years old and I don't care
who you are at that age.
It takes a lot of energy, a lotof memory, like all that stuff,
to pull that off.
Most of the of the film is inFreud's office Intensive
dialogue and the blocking, allthe things that went into it and
(06:47):
to pull it off I don't think wewere ever a day late.
Everything was on schedule andJust a consummate pro.
The locations expand, though,because it goes outside, because
there's kind of it's kind of apast is prologue, kind of
argument in a film that Both oftheir world views were shaped by
(07:07):
.
You know the experiences theyhad in real life.
See us Lewis, his mother dyingat the age when he was I believe
he was nine and he got shippedto England and went to boarding
school and just kind of like anew life in Ireland was a
distant memory.
And then Freud's experienceswith Antisemitism and being
(07:29):
raised by a Catholic nanny,which is kind of interesting,
but all those things kind ofthere's flashbacks to that
Within the film, that kind ofinformed how they came to their
world views.
Hmm, wow, it's shot in Ireland.
I Was just blown away by thecrew.
They were great and they wereset up to set up, to set up.
(07:49):
Hmm, in Ireland I guess youknow they have that really good
tax credit and but it's stillkind of fresh and that they're
still enjoying the circus likethe crews are like, and so
excited about.
What's going on and it's notwrote and like drudgery.
Allen Wolf (08:04):
Yet oh right.
Rob Stillman (08:06):
That's a a good thing.
Allen Wolf (08:09):
What first attracted you toward wanting to tell the
story?
Rob Stillman (08:12):
I've always wanted to do Projects that were kind
of maybe espousing a worldviewthat isn't quite the norm and in
edifying and challenging andmaybe providing something to
think about versus like how do Imake a buck.
(08:36):
It resonated with me on thatlevel and here you know two
people kind of having thisphilosophical argument and
arguing and defending orProposing whatever the worldview
is.
I loved it and it was a toughtime because I think that was
the end of 2008, going into 2009, and so To get that done in the
(08:59):
midst of a very substantialrecession was not easy Amazing
and the other thing I learnedand this is for if we're gonna
talk about navigating HollywoodNever, ever, ever assume the
person you're talking to Won'tpotentially invest in your
(09:21):
project.
You never know and.
I just remember I was, someoneasked me what I was working on,
and then back in my head I'mlike I don't know why I'm saying
this, because this guy's not.
Allen Wolf (09:33):
You're not gonna do this.
Rob Stillman (09:35):
And I just did my little elevator pitch and he
goes I'll do two units.
I was like what?
Okay, you know.
So it's like right there.
It's like you know, that was onme.
It's like Kind of being a jerkfor thinking I knew something I
didn't know, you don't know, hmm, never, be afraid to talk to
anybody never be afraid to pitchand always be ready to pitch
(09:57):
and never assume your pitch Is awaste.
Allen Wolf (10:01):
I completely agree with that.
I had a similar experience withmy first film in my sleep,
where I just got had so manymeetings with people that by the
time a person wanted to meetwith me, I didn't know much
about this person and I justdidn't think it was gonna turn
out to be anything.
And so I I just was like, okay,I'm just gonna do it, low
(10:21):
expectations.
But it turned out to be thelargest investor In the film.
So you're right, you just youcan never assume, just always go
in with the best.
Rob Stillman (10:31):
But it's, it's hard to keep that attitude up
because it is grueling, racingfunds to your point the most,
the most damaging to your Psychetoo, is the people that you
think.
Like there's a home run, I'mlike I'm gonna walk in.
I don't, I'm fine.
Like I can't, I'm just, I'mjust waiting to see how many
(10:54):
zeros are gonna be on this check.
No, that's a real kick in theyou know what like oh, totally.
Allen Wolf (11:02):
Oh my gosh yeah completely been there,
absolutely, and even there was aphase for me where people would
Make you think that they'reactually heading in one
particular direction, in a verypositive direction, and then
just turn it.
So it's just, you never knowuntil Not that you have the
check, but it's been depositedin the bank and cleared then you
(11:23):
know it's real.
I meet people all the time whosay, yeah, I have these people
that they're saying they'regonna invest in in my film or
whatever, and I say, well, Ihave they written a check?
Has it cleared the bank?
And it's hard as a filmmakerbecause you want to get excited
about oh, this person saysthey're gonna invest, but it's
very easy to say you're going toinvest.
It's not easy to write thecheck and have it clear.
(11:44):
So I I totally hear you aboutthat part of the journey.
Rob Stillman (11:49):
Let's face it, we're not working for Dreamworks
, we're not Steven Spielberg orwho whatever big-name producer
or Actor, a talent or whateveryou got behind you.
We don't have those things.
So it's gonna come down to kindof grit and perseverance and
Just trying to create theopportunity that You're gonna
(12:13):
need and your project is gonnaneed just to move forward.
And it's just, and maybesometimes you just have to bite
the bullet and realize maybethis doesn't have the value
proposition to move on rightclose that door and and just
accept it, but that's hard to do.
Allen Wolf (12:33):
I mean, that's oh completely and I must say
Everyone has the exact samebattle, because even you
mentioned Steven Spielberg.
Even Steven Spielberg isChallenged at finding finances
for his movies.
Like you think that level, itjust suddenly goes away.
But it doesn't.
It just changes.
But everyone is always lookingfor funding.
(12:55):
Maybe it's slightly easier forsomeone like him, but everyone's
playing on the same playingfield.
Rob Stillman (13:01):
In my case, and point because I've been working
on a film called don't stop menow, which is an adaptation of a
UK documentary called the boywhose skin fell off, and I've
been working on it.
It's a passion project andpeople like you're still working
on that.
I'm like, well, hey, georgeLucas worked on red tails for 21
years, and so I'm like, if ittook him 21 years To do
(13:23):
something, why do I think I'mgonna do something in, you know,
a year and a half to two yearsor whatever?
Yeah then you kind of look backand you look at like all the
little things that had to happento slowly advance.
And that's just kind of whatit's about is to just try and
make a little bit of progressevery day or every month or
(13:46):
however that is, and theneventually it seems like the
timing will catch up to you andyou, you will have set up all
the dominoes.
And then there's that nextevent that makes the dominoes
fall.
And that's what they did withFreud, with.
You know.
They kept working in thebackground.
They came to us like eight yearsago but you know, to match
credit, he kept Plotting alongand working along and did a
(14:09):
rewrite and did all you know,all this work so that when
Anthony Hopkins was handed thescreenplay who's handed the best
screenplay you could get heliked it.
And then when Anthony said I'mon board, there goes the
dominoes.
There's so much work we do thatyou're not sure if it's
valuable or Whatever.
(14:31):
But when you look back overtime you're like, okay, that
that's what got this to thereand that's there, and here we
are now.
So it's it's, it's interesting.
Allen Wolf (14:41):
Very true.
I love that perspective andit's interesting because I've
heard Anthony, tony, sir Anthony, talk about his own spiritual
journey.
That seems to kind of mirrorwhat the characters are going
through in the movie.
Did you experience any of thatfrom him and his own feedback?
Rob Stillman (15:02):
Yeah, I did, and when I think when I first
approached about the project,you know, I was like looking at
where he was at in a personalspace, and then there was an
article where he talked about,like he goes, hey, I'm 83.
I realized I'm nearing the endof the road and and so I think
(15:24):
on these things and but he'svery, very comfortable with the
idea that he's near the end ofhis time on this earth.
To be comfortable In that space,you either have to have a
blissful ignorance Most peopledon't have or you've grappled
with the questions and thoughtabout it and and have come up
(15:47):
with an idea of of what thatmeans and where you're going,
and being comfortable with theidea of what the next step of
that journey is going to be.
And I think that's where he'sat.
He's kind of made peace with it.
I think one of the things thatreally resonated with him was
this idea that we need to haveconversations and we need to
(16:08):
talk through our beliefs and weneed to even speak with people
we don't necessarily agree with,and the idea of Canceling and
shunting people off and sayingthat we're talking to us is a
really bad idea and that we'rebetter, as a whole Talking with
(16:31):
each other and talking throughthings and understanding each
other, then we would be tocutting each other off, and I
think that's part of it as well.
Allen Wolf (16:40):
I think that's brilliant.
I mean, that's a very modernidea of just, instead of
engaging, just cutting off andgoing into your corner.
And it seems like as a culture,we've experienced the
repercussions of that and howmuch, how divided we are as a
nation, as a world.
So I love that your film reallyencourages people in a
(17:00):
different direction.
Rob Stillman (17:02):
I think anybody coming from either side would be
like I'd like to see my sidejust crush the other side.
But I think in this you havetwo scholars who are very
respectful and they argue, butat the end of it all they're
going to part as friends andwith a deeper understanding of
(17:23):
each other, a deeper respect foreach other, and I think we're
all better for it, and I thinkit's something we can all model
in our own lives.
It's like earlier when I said Ijust assumed this guy was never
going to invest.
Well, how often do we assumelike, well, a person's never
going to understand her, I don'teven care what that person
thinks, or that person's justwrong.
And it's like how do you knowthat you don't know that, even
(17:46):
talking to them and workingthrough what, why they believe,
what they believe, maybe you'lllearn something.
Yeah, instead of just assumingyou know it all.
Allen Wolf (17:56):
That's right, I love it.
I love it.
You've invested in off-Broadwayshows and Broadway shows.
What draws you to a production?
Rob Stillman (18:06):
Sometimes it's the invite like puffs and this is
going to be bad.
It's really bad.
But I never read any of theHarry Potter books, is that?
I mean?
I don't know if that's a sin ora crime, but but here's what I
did.
Know All my kids did and mywife did, and they loved them.
(18:26):
And so I got approached and Iwas like, well, if you guys are
looking for funding, can isthere a preview?
And so I sent my experts, whichwas my wife and my kids, and my
wife said this is the funniestthing she'd ever seen.
She was embarrassed by how muchshe laughed, she was crying,
and so I was like okay, well,then I'll do it.
(18:47):
And that turned out to be agreat investment.
So that was one method.
Now, amazing grace, I actuallywas approached at my brother's
mother-in-law's funeral, whichyou know, I bet you know how it
is.
People you get, the venuedoesn't seem to matter, but they
(19:09):
, oh, you're in the film oryou're in the camera.
I have this friend with an idea, like, okay, Right, and so this
guy comes up to me and he'slike I have this friend who's
kind of written this musical andit's the true story of John
Newton who wrote Amazing Grace,would you be interested?
And honestly I was like who'sthis guy?
And he's like always a retiredcop.
(19:30):
Okay, I'm sure, why not?
And the music, music story.
Everything was amazing.
Allen Wolf (19:41):
And.
Rob Stillman (19:41):
I was blown away by it and I was like, okay, well
then, you need help.
I'm not going to take this toBroadway I don't.
I wouldn't even pretend, I knowhow to do that.
But Carolyn, who I met, I tookAmazing Grace to her and I said
listen, do you think there'sanything here?
We went to a preview it wasactually in the basement of the
(20:04):
Empire State Building and thenshe came on board and really was
the person that got it toBroadway.
Honestly, how it's not stillrunning today, I don't know.
It was a great show, it wasamazing, but for whatever reason
, the critics didn't like it.
So it is what it is.
Allen Wolf (20:24):
What was that like?
Just dealing with that?
Rob Stillman (20:27):
It sucked, but that's the nature of the game.
I mean, you know, even Freud'slast session it's gotten good
reviews, but to say they're rave, you know we've gotten some
negative ones and I just feel somuch, actually feel so much
more for the director and theactors who they're pouring their
(20:48):
heart and soul into it.
I mean, I love it and I've putplenty of work into it, but I
feel like they're even even moreso exposing themselves and
putting themselves even more outthere and it's just like you
know, it is what it is.
You know, you kind of justbirth this thing and you give it
to the world and and then whathappens happens, and it's not
(21:11):
easy.
That's probably, to be honest,the hardest part, because you
want everyone to love it thesame way you do, and it's just
Never gonna happen that way.
I think there's there'selements of the film that
certain critics are just they'renot gonna get passed.
I think some of that is relatedto the discussion itself, and
so the one thing I will say thatwe've gotten in every review is
(21:35):
that Matthew Good and AnthonyHopkins performances are just
Mesmerizing, and they allacknowledge that, like the
actors are great.
So, Wow, we've captured that,and so I think, for the, for the
critics and for the audiencethat is gonna, you know, be
(21:57):
attracted to this content tobegin with, they're gonna love
it.
On that score, I think we've,you know, hit a home run, which
is great.
Allen Wolf (22:04):
You chose a story where there are a lot of
Spiritual questions that areposed.
What has your own spiritualjourney looked like?
Rob Stillman (22:14):
a lot like that.
You know really, I was raised inNot quite a fundamentalist
evangelical household.
We're close, but not not notquite that far into the
fundamentalist camp, more of anevangelical.
And I think as anybody grows upand they mature, they're like
(22:38):
how much of this is something Iinherited and how much of this
is something I fleshed out formyself.
One of the most powerful thingsthat shaped me was I went on a
missions trip to El Salvador andit became clear to me on that
trip and I was in college that Idon't think I was in the right
(23:00):
space and I don't know that Ikind of washed away everything I
grew up with and Exposed me to,I would say, a more real
relationship with Christ andjust like realizing that I
needed to repent and that was abig part of my journey I just
(23:26):
feel like there is anintelligence to the universe.
That's undeniable.
So for me it's just.
I just believe that there's aGod and His son walk the earth,
die for me I and in that processabsolve me of my sin.
Allen Wolf (23:43):
So I believe that that's, that's what I believe
and how did that idea Become areality in your life?
Rob Stillman (23:51):
I think when you go through the process of kind
of kicking the tires At somepoint you got to get in the car.
If I'm gonna believe this, thenit kind of needs to inform
Everything you do and I'm andAlan, I am by no means perfect.
I don't want to put myself onany type of like pedestal.
I screw up all the time andFrom the outside looking at, I'm
(24:16):
sure people will be like dude,you're an outrageous hypocrite.
But when your standard isperfect, you're gonna look like
a hypocrite sometimes and so mygoal is to be better than I was
yesterday, but at the end of theday, I can't be good enough,
and so that's why Christ had todie for us, because if we could
(24:40):
do it on our own, he wouldn'thave needed to do that.
Allen Wolf (24:43):
How has your faith impacted the projects you've
chosen?
Rob Stillman (24:46):
There's just things I won't do, you know.
I've been approached withprojects and I'm Read the script
and I'm like yeah, no, that's,even if it was a no-brainer,
gonna make a ton of money likeno.
I Remember I was at a filmfinance convention.
They had a panel and they hadpeople come up there.
(25:09):
How did you get your filmfunded?
And I won't say names becausethen you'd figure out the
project.
But they're like oh X and abikini fighting sharks and I was
like I don't Ever want to dothat I mean, and to be fair, I
do have the luxury of not havingto do that.
(25:30):
You know, I wouldn't want tocast dispersions on someone that
like, if you got to feed yourfamily, I hey.
But at a certain level there'sjust things I wouldn't, I
wouldn't want to do and Iwouldn't do and I'd be
embarrassed to have my name Idon't, you know.
So for me, at the end of theday, I want my kids to see my
credits and be like okay, thoseare interesting things that were
(25:51):
Projects that would make peoplethink through, like the moral
and ethical dilemmas of like thetransplant, or you know John
Newton and his journey fromslave trader to abolitionist,
and you know CS Lewis and Freudtalking about their faith or
(26:14):
lack of, and so to me that's,that's the kind of stuff that's
interesting to me, and luckily Ihave the freedom to kind of
pursue those things.
Allen Wolf (26:23):
You've been married for 30 years.
Amazing, in Hollywood maththat's like 90 years, you know,
just so you know.
But how have you stayedrelationally healthy for 30 plus
years?
Rob Stillman (26:38):
I have four kids, 24 through 16, and a wife.
That's amazing.
She's encouraging.
She has more faith in me thanthan I probably.
Well, that I surely deserve,and she's also kept me grounded.
We've always been dedicated toeach other and Wanting to do the
(27:01):
work that we need to do to tohave the marriage we both want
to have.
That's great.
Allen Wolf (27:06):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Rob Stillman (27:11):
I want my kids to be proud of the man I was.
They can look back on thechoices I made, the commitments
I honored.
You know, having been marriedfor 30 years Just showing the
the value of Honoring thecommitment you make, I think
there's an element of pride thatthat you know we want to be
remembered beyond and I hate totell it to most people the
(27:35):
average person.
We're gonna be forgotten prettyquick and even if you are a big
deal, in any field.
I'm not so sure that anythingbeyond Having made a positive
impact is really is valuable.
(27:56):
It was interesting.
I saw a wildly successful maybebeen a billionaire some
business guy needs, like youknow, you can have all the
success in the world, but ifyour kids don't want to be with
you when they're adults becauseI would consider that a failure
and and I I 100% feel the sameway and luckily so far they
(28:19):
enjoy being with us and and it'sprecious when it happens that's
probably one of the things I'mmost proud of is just to be in a
great close, healthyrelationship with all my kids.
Allen Wolf (28:30):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for being myguest, Rob.
Thanks for sharing yourinsights and your journey.
I really appreciate you beinghere.
It was such a pleasure if youwork in entertainment, check out
the complimentary courses andother resources available at
Navigating Hollywood org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
(28:51):
You can find our other showsand transcripts, links and more
at NavigatingH ollywood org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
Welcome to the Navigating Hollywood podcast.
My name is Allen Wolf, and I'ma filmmaker and an author.
You can check out my latestmovie, The Sound of Violet,
which is available wherever youstream movies.
Navigating Hollywood encouragesand equips entertainment
professionals to liverelationally and spiritually
holistic lives.
If you work in entertainment,visit navigatinghollywood.
org to discover how you can getinvolved.
Today, we're joined by RobertStillman, who is a film
producer, entrepreneur, andinvestor.
(00:35):
His first off-Broadway show,The God Committee, was made into
a movie starring Kelsey Grammer, Julia Stiles and Janine
Garofalo.
He helped produce theaward-winning play Freud's Last
Session, which launchedproductions in New York, Los
Angeles, Chicago and Sydney.
That show has been turned intoa movie starring Anthony Hopkins
(00:56):
as Sigmund Freud and MatthewGood as CS Lewis.
Rob has also invested inBroadway shows such as A
Gentleman's Guide to Love andMurder Puffs and Amazing Grace.
Welcome, Rob.
Rob Stillman (01:11):
It's a pleasure to be here, happy to say, this is
my first podcast I've ever done.
So.
Allen Wolf (01:16):
This is historic, wow, and everyone listening or
watching is here to witness thisamazing occasion.
Rob Stillman (01:24):
So happy to be invited, so I appreciate it.
Allen Wolf (01:26):
Yes, absolutely, with a huge congratulations on
Freud's Last Session beingturned into a motion picture.
Was that always your plan?
I had a plan.
Rob Stillman (01:36):
I got derailed.
I ended up meeting with CarolynRosy Copeland, who's a producer
in New York, with an idea of myown, and she said I have this
other project, maybe you'd liketo look at it and it was the God
Committee and that wasbasically 12 Angry Men kind of
set in a hospital.
(01:56):
The people that decide who'sgoing to get a transplant is
called the God Committee.
They had picked out a candidate, he was in prep, there was a
heart on the way and then hedies in prep and then they have
to reconvene and they have 45minutes to decide who's going to
get the heart.
That's on its way and they alldisagree on who should get it.
(02:19):
That was kind of a really coolproject and that obviously, like
you said, got turned into afilm with Kelsey Grammer and
Jeanine Garoppolo.
But I had nothing to do withthe movie side of that.
But then from there Mark StGermain had written the God
Committee and then he invited meto a table read of Freud's last
session as soon as it was over.
(02:41):
I was like I'd love to beinvolved in any way, shape and
form and I'll do whatever I canto help.
And it eventually made it toOff-Broadway and ran for two
years.
Wow.
Allen Wolf (02:53):
That's amazing.
Rob Stillman (02:55):
Pretty crazy for a small little play.
Allen Wolf (02:58):
Totally.
And then you took it on theroad, because I remember seeing
it in Santa Monica and itstarred Judd Hirsch, and Was it
Tom Kavanaugh?
Rob Stillman (03:07):
Yes, Tom Kavanaugh , who was the lead in Ed, as you
might recall.
And they're great, super greatguys to work with and it's been.
That's been interesting as well, Like everyone that's been
involved with Freud from NewYork to Chicago to LA.
Like they find the materialfascinating and they really
(03:30):
enjoy it because it's atwo-hander, one act, no
intermission, so there's reallynowhere to hide, and so I think
actors enjoy that.
It puts them even on a highertightrope, if you know what I
mean.
And it was interesting toobecause we had the screening in
LA in November at AFI forFreud's last session of the
movie and Judd Hirsch came tothe film, to the screen.
Allen Wolf (03:53):
Oh, that's great.
Did he say something to youafterward?
Rob Stillman (03:57):
No, I saw him coming down the steps and I said
, hey, I don't know if youremember, but I was one of the
producers on the play and I metyou at Santa Monica.
And he's like oh yeah, verynice, very nice and just kept
moving.
Allen Wolf (04:13):
So I mean it seemed like a huge get to get Anthony
Hopkins to play the lead role ofSigmund Freud.
How did that all happen?
Rob Stillman (04:23):
The way Hopkins came to the table is.
Rick Nassita, who is one of theproducers on the film, was at
one time his agent and I guesshe had gotten the script he
shared it with.
See, I can't call him anythingbut Sir Anthony Hopkins, but he
actually goes by Tony, right,right right, yeah, right.
(04:44):
So it doesn't feel right.
Allen Wolf (04:46):
So we'll call him Tony.
It will be very casual duringthis.
Rob Stillman (04:50):
I just want him to be comfortable.
But he gave it to Tony, he readit and I think, as I recall,
rick told me like the next dayhe was like I want to do this,
wow, amazing.
Allen Wolf (05:03):
So which is pretty?
Rob Stillman (05:04):
you know that it gives someone a script and it's
like you're lucky if you hearback from him in a month.
But yeah, it's like the nextday he called him and said I
really like it.
And then Tony and Matt workingtogether for like a year prior
to filming starting, and he justshared like different texts and
emails with me of like how muchhe was investing in the part
(05:28):
Just notes and like ideas andlike I think there was one email
that Matt had printed out fromAnthony that was like 12 pages
long, like really just delvinginto it.
So he really dug in, he reallywanted to understand it, he
really wanted to portraysomething with real depth and it
(05:50):
was interesting to like andthis is going to sound like name
dropping, but we just had ascreening in New York on Tuesday
and Jim Gaffigan was there.
He was just talking about how,like what came through and how
the depth of the character thatAnthony and Matthew good both
(06:10):
display on the screen.
He was really impressed with.
Allen Wolf (06:15):
Amazing.
So they work together, buildingup to a year, and what was it
like seeing that come to life onthe set?
It was very difficult.
Rob Stillman (06:24):
First of all, he's 84 years old and I don't care
who you are at that age.
It takes a lot of energy, a lotof memory, like all that stuff,
to pull that off.
Most of the of the film is inFreud's office Intensive
dialogue and the blocking, allthe things that went into it and
(06:47):
to pull it off I don't think wewere ever a day late.
Everything was on schedule andJust a consummate pro.
The locations expand, though,because it goes outside, because
there's kind of it's kind of apast is prologue, kind of
argument in a film that Both oftheir world views were shaped by
(07:07):
.
You know the experiences theyhad in real life.
See us Lewis, his mother dyingat the age when he was I believe
he was nine and he got shippedto England and went to boarding
school and just kind of like anew life in Ireland was a
distant memory.
And then Freud's experienceswith Antisemitism and being
(07:29):
raised by a Catholic nanny,which is kind of interesting,
but all those things kind ofthere's flashbacks to that
Within the film, that kind ofinformed how they came to their
world views.
Hmm, wow, it's shot in Ireland.
I Was just blown away by thecrew.
They were great and they wereset up to set up, to set up.
(07:49):
Hmm, in Ireland I guess youknow they have that really good
tax credit and but it's stillkind of fresh and that they're
still enjoying the circus likethe crews are like, and so
excited about.
What's going on and it's notwrote and like drudgery.
Allen Wolf (08:04):
Yet oh right.
Rob Stillman (08:06):
That's a a good thing.
Allen Wolf (08:09):
What first attracted you toward wanting to tell the
story?
Rob Stillman (08:12):
I've always wanted to do Projects that were kind
of maybe espousing a worldviewthat isn't quite the norm and in
edifying and challenging andmaybe providing something to
think about versus like how do Imake a buck.
(08:36):
It resonated with me on thatlevel and here you know two
people kind of having thisphilosophical argument and
arguing and defending orProposing whatever the worldview
is.
I loved it and it was a toughtime because I think that was
the end of 2008, going into 2009, and so To get that done in the
(08:59):
midst of a very substantialrecession was not easy Amazing
and the other thing I learnedand this is for if we're gonna
talk about navigating HollywoodNever, ever, ever assume the
person you're talking to Won'tpotentially invest in your
(09:21):
project.
You never know and.
I just remember I was, someoneasked me what I was working on,
and then back in my head I'mlike I don't know why I'm saying
this, because this guy's not.
Allen Wolf (09:33):
You're not gonna do this.
Rob Stillman (09:35):
And I just did my little elevator pitch and he
goes I'll do two units.
I was like what?
Okay, you know.
So it's like right there.
It's like you know, that was onme.
It's like Kind of being a jerkfor thinking I knew something I
didn't know, you don't know, hmm, never, be afraid to talk to
anybody never be afraid to pitchand always be ready to pitch
(09:57):
and never assume your pitch Is awaste.
Allen Wolf (10:01):
I completely agree with that.
I had a similar experience withmy first film in my sleep,
where I just got had so manymeetings with people that by the
time a person wanted to meetwith me, I didn't know much
about this person and I justdidn't think it was gonna turn
out to be anything.
And so I I just was like, okay,I'm just gonna do it, low
(10:21):
expectations.
But it turned out to be thelargest investor In the film.
So you're right, you just youcan never assume, just always go
in with the best.
Rob Stillman (10:31):
But it's, it's hard to keep that attitude up
because it is grueling, racingfunds to your point the most,
the most damaging to your Psychetoo, is the people that you
think.
Like there's a home run, I'mlike I'm gonna walk in.
I don't, I'm fine.
Like I can't, I'm just, I'mjust waiting to see how many
(10:54):
zeros are gonna be on this check.
No, that's a real kick in theyou know what like oh, totally.
Allen Wolf (11:02):
Oh my gosh yeah completely been there,
absolutely, and even there was aphase for me where people would
Make you think that they'reactually heading in one
particular direction, in a verypositive direction, and then
just turn it.
So it's just, you never knowuntil Not that you have the
check, but it's been depositedin the bank and cleared then you
(11:23):
know it's real.
I meet people all the time whosay, yeah, I have these people
that they're saying they'regonna invest in in my film or
whatever, and I say, well, Ihave they written a check?
Has it cleared the bank?
And it's hard as a filmmakerbecause you want to get excited
about oh, this person saysthey're gonna invest, but it's
very easy to say you're going toinvest.
It's not easy to write thecheck and have it clear.
(11:44):
So I I totally hear you aboutthat part of the journey.
Rob Stillman (11:49):
Let's face it, we're not working for Dreamworks
, we're not Steven Spielberg orwho whatever big-name producer
or Actor, a talent or whateveryou got behind you.
We don't have those things.
So it's gonna come down to kindof grit and perseverance and
Just trying to create theopportunity that You're gonna
(12:13):
need and your project is gonnaneed just to move forward.
And it's just, and maybesometimes you just have to bite
the bullet and realize maybethis doesn't have the value
proposition to move on rightclose that door and and just
accept it, but that's hard to do.
Allen Wolf (12:33):
I mean, that's oh completely and I must say
Everyone has the exact samebattle, because even you
mentioned Steven Spielberg.
Even Steven Spielberg isChallenged at finding finances
for his movies.
Like you think that level, itjust suddenly goes away.
But it doesn't.
It just changes.
But everyone is always lookingfor funding.
(12:55):
Maybe it's slightly easier forsomeone like him, but everyone's
playing on the same playingfield.
Rob Stillman (13:01):
In my case, and point because I've been working
on a film called don't stop menow, which is an adaptation of a
UK documentary called the boywhose skin fell off, and I've
been working on it.
It's a passion project andpeople like you're still working
on that.
I'm like, well, hey, georgeLucas worked on red tails for 21
years, and so I'm like, if ittook him 21 years To do
(13:23):
something, why do I think I'mgonna do something in, you know,
a year and a half to two yearsor whatever?
Yeah then you kind of look backand you look at like all the
little things that had to happento slowly advance.
And that's just kind of whatit's about is to just try and
make a little bit of progressevery day or every month or
(13:46):
however that is, and theneventually it seems like the
timing will catch up to you andyou, you will have set up all
the dominoes.
And then there's that nextevent that makes the dominoes
fall.
And that's what they did withFreud, with.
You know.
They kept working in thebackground.
They came to us like eight yearsago but you know, to match
credit, he kept Plotting alongand working along and did a
(14:09):
rewrite and did all you know,all this work so that when
Anthony Hopkins was handed thescreenplay who's handed the best
screenplay you could get heliked it.
And then when Anthony said I'mon board, there goes the
dominoes.
There's so much work we do thatyou're not sure if it's
valuable or Whatever.
(14:31):
But when you look back overtime you're like, okay, that
that's what got this to thereand that's there, and here we
are now.
So it's it's, it's interesting.
Allen Wolf (14:41):
Very true.
I love that perspective andit's interesting because I've
heard Anthony, tony, sir Anthony, talk about his own spiritual
journey.
That seems to kind of mirrorwhat the characters are going
through in the movie.
Did you experience any of thatfrom him and his own feedback?
Rob Stillman (15:02):
Yeah, I did, and when I think when I first
approached about the project,you know, I was like looking at
where he was at in a personalspace, and then there was an
article where he talked about,like he goes, hey, I'm 83.
I realized I'm nearing the endof the road and and so I think
(15:24):
on these things and but he'svery, very comfortable with the
idea that he's near the end ofhis time on this earth.
To be comfortable In that space,you either have to have a
blissful ignorance Most peopledon't have or you've grappled
with the questions and thoughtabout it and and have come up
(15:47):
with an idea of of what thatmeans and where you're going,
and being comfortable with theidea of what the next step of
that journey is going to be.
And I think that's where he'sat.
He's kind of made peace with it.
I think one of the things thatreally resonated with him was
this idea that we need to haveconversations and we need to
(16:08):
talk through our beliefs and weneed to even speak with people
we don't necessarily agree with,and the idea of Canceling and
shunting people off and sayingthat we're talking to us is a
really bad idea and that we'rebetter, as a whole Talking with
(16:31):
each other and talking throughthings and understanding each
other, then we would be tocutting each other off, and I
think that's part of it as well.
Allen Wolf (16:40):
I think that's brilliant.
I mean, that's a very modernidea of just, instead of
engaging, just cutting off andgoing into your corner.
And it seems like as a culture,we've experienced the
repercussions of that and howmuch, how divided we are as a
nation, as a world.
So I love that your film reallyencourages people in a
(17:00):
different direction.
Rob Stillman (17:02):
I think anybody coming from either side would be
like I'd like to see my sidejust crush the other side.
But I think in this you havetwo scholars who are very
respectful and they argue, butat the end of it all they're
going to part as friends andwith a deeper understanding of
(17:23):
each other, a deeper respect foreach other, and I think we're
all better for it, and I thinkit's something we can all model
in our own lives.
It's like earlier when I said Ijust assumed this guy was never
going to invest.
Well, how often do we assumelike, well, a person's never
going to understand her, I don'teven care what that person
thinks, or that person's justwrong.
And it's like how do you knowthat you don't know that, even
(17:46):
talking to them and workingthrough what, why they believe,
what they believe, maybe you'lllearn something.
Yeah, instead of just assumingyou know it all.
Allen Wolf (17:56):
That's right, I love it.
I love it.
You've invested in off-Broadwayshows and Broadway shows.
What draws you to a production?
Rob Stillman (18:06):
Sometimes it's the invite like puffs and this is
going to be bad.
It's really bad.
But I never read any of theHarry Potter books, is that?
I mean?
I don't know if that's a sin ora crime, but but here's what I
did.
Know All my kids did and mywife did, and they loved them.
(18:26):
And so I got approached and Iwas like, well, if you guys are
looking for funding, can isthere a preview?
And so I sent my experts, whichwas my wife and my kids, and my
wife said this is the funniestthing she'd ever seen.
She was embarrassed by how muchshe laughed, she was crying,
and so I was like okay, well,then I'll do it.
(18:47):
And that turned out to be agreat investment.
So that was one method.
Now, amazing grace, I actuallywas approached at my brother's
mother-in-law's funeral, whichyou know, I bet you know how it
is.
People you get, the venuedoesn't seem to matter, but they
(19:09):
, oh, you're in the film oryou're in the camera.
I have this friend with an idea, like, okay, Right, and so this
guy comes up to me and he'slike I have this friend who's
kind of written this musical andit's the true story of John
Newton who wrote Amazing Grace,would you be interested?
And honestly I was like who'sthis guy?
And he's like always a retiredcop.
(19:30):
Okay, I'm sure, why not?
And the music, music story.
Everything was amazing.
Allen Wolf (19:41):
And.
Rob Stillman (19:41):
I was blown away by it and I was like, okay, well
then, you need help.
I'm not going to take this toBroadway I don't.
I wouldn't even pretend, I knowhow to do that.
But Carolyn, who I met, I tookAmazing Grace to her and I said
listen, do you think there'sanything here?
We went to a preview it wasactually in the basement of the
(20:04):
Empire State Building and thenshe came on board and really was
the person that got it toBroadway.
Honestly, how it's not stillrunning today, I don't know.
It was a great show, it wasamazing, but for whatever reason
, the critics didn't like it.
So it is what it is.
Allen Wolf (20:24):
What was that like?
Just dealing with that?
Rob Stillman (20:27):
It sucked, but that's the nature of the game.
I mean, you know, even Freud'slast session it's gotten good
reviews, but to say they're rave, you know we've gotten some
negative ones and I just feel somuch, actually feel so much
more for the director and theactors who they're pouring their
(20:48):
heart and soul into it.
I mean, I love it and I've putplenty of work into it, but I
feel like they're even even moreso exposing themselves and
putting themselves even more outthere and it's just like you
know, it is what it is.
You know, you kind of justbirth this thing and you give it
to the world and and then whathappens happens, and it's not
(21:11):
easy.
That's probably, to be honest,the hardest part, because you
want everyone to love it thesame way you do, and it's just
Never gonna happen that way.
I think there's there'selements of the film that
certain critics are just they'renot gonna get passed.
I think some of that is relatedto the discussion itself, and
so the one thing I will say thatwe've gotten in every review is
(21:35):
that Matthew Good and AnthonyHopkins performances are just
Mesmerizing, and they allacknowledge that, like the
actors are great.
So, Wow, we've captured that,and so I think, for the, for the
critics and for the audiencethat is gonna, you know, be
(21:57):
attracted to this content tobegin with, they're gonna love
it.
On that score, I think we've,you know, hit a home run, which
is great.
Allen Wolf (22:04):
You chose a story where there are a lot of
Spiritual questions that areposed.
What has your own spiritualjourney looked like?
Rob Stillman (22:14):
a lot like that.
You know really, I was raised inNot quite a fundamentalist
evangelical household.
We're close, but not not notquite that far into the
fundamentalist camp, more of anevangelical.
And I think as anybody grows upand they mature, they're like
(22:38):
how much of this is something Iinherited and how much of this
is something I fleshed out formyself.
One of the most powerful thingsthat shaped me was I went on a
missions trip to El Salvador andit became clear to me on that
trip and I was in college that Idon't think I was in the right
(23:00):
space and I don't know that Ikind of washed away everything I
grew up with and Exposed me to,I would say, a more real
relationship with Christ andjust like realizing that I
needed to repent and that was abig part of my journey I just
(23:26):
feel like there is anintelligence to the universe.
That's undeniable.
So for me it's just.
I just believe that there's aGod and His son walk the earth,
die for me I and in that processabsolve me of my sin.
Allen Wolf (23:43):
So I believe that that's, that's what I believe
and how did that idea Become areality in your life?
Rob Stillman (23:51):
I think when you go through the process of kind
of kicking the tires At somepoint you got to get in the car.
If I'm gonna believe this, thenit kind of needs to inform
Everything you do and I'm andAlan, I am by no means perfect.
I don't want to put myself onany type of like pedestal.
I screw up all the time andFrom the outside looking at, I'm
(24:16):
sure people will be like dude,you're an outrageous hypocrite.
But when your standard isperfect, you're gonna look like
a hypocrite sometimes and so mygoal is to be better than I was
yesterday, but at the end of theday, I can't be good enough,
and so that's why Christ had todie for us, because if we could
(24:40):
do it on our own, he wouldn'thave needed to do that.
Allen Wolf (24:43):
How has your faith impacted the projects you've
chosen?
Rob Stillman (24:46):
There's just things I won't do, you know.
I've been approached withprojects and I'm Read the script
and I'm like yeah, no, that's,even if it was a no-brainer,
gonna make a ton of money likeno.
I Remember I was at a filmfinance convention.
They had a panel and they hadpeople come up there.
(25:09):
How did you get your filmfunded?
And I won't say names becausethen you'd figure out the
project.
But they're like oh X and abikini fighting sharks and I was
like I don't Ever want to dothat I mean, and to be fair, I
do have the luxury of not havingto do that.
(25:30):
You know, I wouldn't want tocast dispersions on someone that
like, if you got to feed yourfamily, I hey.
But at a certain level there'sjust things I wouldn't, I
wouldn't want to do and Iwouldn't do and I'd be
embarrassed to have my name Idon't, you know.
So for me, at the end of theday, I want my kids to see my
credits and be like okay, thoseare interesting things that were
(25:51):
Projects that would make peoplethink through, like the moral
and ethical dilemmas of like thetransplant, or you know John
Newton and his journey fromslave trader to abolitionist,
and you know CS Lewis and Freudtalking about their faith or
(26:14):
lack of, and so to me that's,that's the kind of stuff that's
interesting to me, and luckily Ihave the freedom to kind of
pursue those things.
Allen Wolf (26:23):
You've been married for 30 years.
Amazing, in Hollywood maththat's like 90 years, you know,
just so you know.
But how have you stayedrelationally healthy for 30 plus
years?
Rob Stillman (26:38):
I have four kids, 24 through 16, and a wife.
That's amazing.
She's encouraging.
She has more faith in me thanthan I probably.
Well, that I surely deserve,and she's also kept me grounded.
We've always been dedicated toeach other and Wanting to do the
(27:01):
work that we need to do to tohave the marriage we both want
to have.
That's great.
Allen Wolf (27:06):
At the end of your life, what kind of legacy would
you like to leave behind?
Rob Stillman (27:11):
I want my kids to be proud of the man I was.
They can look back on thechoices I made, the commitments
I honored.
You know, having been marriedfor 30 years Just showing the
the value of Honoring thecommitment you make, I think
there's an element of pride thatthat you know we want to be
remembered beyond and I hate totell it to most people the
(27:35):
average person.
We're gonna be forgotten prettyquick and even if you are a big
deal, in any field.
I'm not so sure that anythingbeyond Having made a positive
impact is really is valuable.
(27:56):
It was interesting.
I saw a wildly successful maybebeen a billionaire some
business guy needs, like youknow, you can have all the
success in the world, but ifyour kids don't want to be with
you when they're adults becauseI would consider that a failure
and and I I 100% feel the sameway and luckily so far they
(28:19):
enjoy being with us and and it'sprecious when it happens that's
probably one of the things I'mmost proud of is just to be in a
great close, healthyrelationship with all my kids.
Allen Wolf (28:30):
That's amazing.
Thank you so much for being myguest, Rob.
Thanks for sharing yourinsights and your journey.
I really appreciate you beinghere.
It was such a pleasure if youwork in entertainment, check out
the complimentary courses andother resources available at
Navigating Hollywood org.
Please follow us and leave us areview so others can discover
this podcast.
(28:51):
You can find our other showsand transcripts, links and more
at NavigatingH ollywood org.
I look forward to being withyou next time.
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