October 3, 2025 • 25 mins
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Let's go.
This episode of the NerdbrandPodcast is brand at the brink.
And uh yeah, iconic brands whenthey try to mar modernize the
margin of error is slim.
So uh this year we've seen a lotof uh branded entities refresh
refreshed that sparked backlash,and so yeah, you you could
probably read into what we'regonna talk about.
We welcome Danielle to the showwith us.
(00:21):
Hello, hello, and uh let's getstarted.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Yes, back, back, back.
Oh good, Lord, Lord, Lord.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Yeah, I'm like, oh dear.
Okay, now it's alright.
So I guess where to start, whereto start.
We all know we're gonna talkabout Cracker Barrel because
what in the world?
That had to be like a psyop.
I mean, there really had to besomething there.
I think they did it on purpose,um, just to get negative
publicity.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
One thing's for certain the Southern Bell and
the Redneck in me really diedwhen I saw the new logo.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Yeah, uh, we've talked about before how brands
have got a little bit just Idon't know, Mitch Mitch is a
little bit more eloquent, butI'm more like they've gotten
boring.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Um I get that like simplification has been one of
those trends and one of thosethings, especially with like the
advancement of promotionalthings and where you can put
your logo.
So like the simpler the better,but in the same token, you still
have to have something that'sunique.
And if you've got something thatworks, you know, the old
expression, if it ain't broke,don't fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
I um and theirs wasn't really broke.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
No, no, it really wasn't.
And I think that, you know, toyour point, you told a great,
you know, we were conversingabout this, that how it affected
and reverberated to otherbusinesses and industries.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Absolutely.
And, you know, it's one of thosethings too that not only when
you like from a marketingperspective, when cracker barrel
changes their logo and thingslike that, but you also kind of
look at, you know, and this isjust across the board, not just
cracker barrel, but how sinceCOVID quality of goods has gone
down, you know, food quality haskind of gone down.
So, you know, I know God knowshow many people who have said
(02:28):
cracker barrel just doesn'ttaste as good as it did a couple
of years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Yeah, it's really funny.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Yeah, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
So it's just let's rebrand, but our food still
sucks and service sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
Right.
So it's like, okay, you're gonnashift your brand to something
that isn't really gonna beperceived well in addition to
worsening quality stuff.
So it's like, you know, let'skeep the good thing going.
And ironically enough, and Idon't know if you're gonna keep
this bit or not, but what wascrazy to me is whenever we found
out who the CEO was thatinitiated the change and
(03:00):
initiated all of the um newbranding stuff, come to find out
that CEO was the CEO of TacoBell in like 2020-2021.
Whenever they simplify wheneverthey simplified their menu and
like cut half their menu forbetter value bundles and
combinations and better qualityfood.
(03:20):
Their quality food has gone downthe toilet too, and it costs
just as much as any other fastfood place now.
So it's like, okay, I I can geta combo from McDonald's cheaper
than Taco Bell.
And and my favorite quesaritogot taken off.
So like, what the actual heck?
So, you know, it's kind ofironic how, like, you know, the
CEO for both of those, and youknow, again, I get
(03:43):
simplification, but you know, dobetter.
Just do better if you're gonnasimplify something, at least
make it higher quality orsomething.
Like, come on, y'all.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I um I feel like all of thisstarted with Sydney Sweeney.
Yeah, it's her fault.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
You know what?
Yep.
I blame the influencers.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Yeah.
But not in a bad way.
I mean, you know, she pros andcons.
Yeah.
It's really funny how she was,you know, this.
I I I never watched any of theepisodes of um that series that
she was in.
She did a lot of nudity.
And so, you know, people startedlooking at her, and it's really
(04:25):
funny how conservatives andeverybody's like, yeah, she's
one of us, because you know,they exposed her voting
registration and everything, youknow.
And I was like, um guys, this isa little I I get it, but let's
just talk about the ad.
First of all, it takes you backto that Americano type feel.
(04:46):
You got a um Mustang, you've gota girl, a pretty girl in blue
jeans, and um you got a play onwords.
I mean, when you just look at itlike that as an ad, it's like,
okay, that's I thought it was agood ad, frankly, in my opinion.
And so when I heard about allthe, you know, stu other stuff,
and I was just like, what?
I mean, that's really reaching.
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
So yeah, like some of the some of the like the
reaches that they made on likethe more political stance, and
you know, obviously I can't usecertain words here, so I think
everybody knows what I'mimplying and what I'm saying.
Like some of that, I'm like,okay, that's a little bit of a
stretch, but I do get that it'slike, you know, you know, we
(05:28):
have good genes and you'retrying to do the G-E-N-E-S and
J-E-A-N-S pun, like L O L, I getit.
But there is a level of like,okay, we gotta look at our
demographics and we gotta lookat the world where we're at.
And I feel like it would havebeen more successful if they had
a range of different women, youknow, whether it's different age
(05:50):
groups or different um justdifferent types of people
instead of just, you know, yourstereotypical white woman with
blonde hair.
I mean, I'm one to talk.
I'm a I'm a white woman withbrown hair, so yeah, I think but
you know, like if it had someother other people in it, so
everybody felt more like it's itwas more relatable, and then you
(06:12):
could kind of play off of thatthat jeans part without seeming
like there was an implicit bias,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
I think it went pol I don't think that when they did
the ad that there was any sortof thought about that.
I think they were like, okay,she's she's creating a product
that she wants to advertise andthen give money to charity, and
that was probably the basisbehind it.
And then I think came the thetheme of how the ad what we saw.
And so I think that's why youdidn't get a a you know, like,
(06:40):
okay, let's see this type ofwoman, let's see this body type,
let's see this gender.
You know, I don't think that'swhy you didn't get that.
Oh, yeah.
Because that was never thetrajectory.
Um exactly.
And and I think people miss thatbecause they immediately want to
go for the hate.
And I think that that's sort ofjust an indicator of where we
are.
So now advertisers, you know,we're kind of back to where we
(07:01):
have to look at the the ads.
If you remember, Pepsi made amisstep about um the Kardashians
and her giving uh a Coke orPepsi to the police.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
That's right.
That was in the Super Bowl acouple of years ago, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:14):
Right.
So now we're back to this wherewe have to think about when we
make an ad, are we who who onthe fringe or on the edge or
whomever are we going to offend?
And you know, you start to walkon eggshells, and that's not
fun.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
Exactly.
And like it's one thing ifyou're like, okay, we gotta be
blatantly obvious about certainthings, but then other things,
it's like, okay, that's a littlebit of a stretch.
And because of, you know, theidea that people can go viral
online, it's so easy for onecomment to then spiral a whole
theory or something.
Yeah, and I think that's how wegot to the discussion.
SPEAKER_02 (07:45):
I personally think that's how we got to Cracker
Barrel.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I think that's how we got to what we saw with
Cracker Barrel.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (07:51):
Let's make a thing that's the most watered-down
vanilla thing, non you know,offensive in the world.
And um Uber fail because it wenttoo far, the pendulum went the
other way.
Like nobody knows how to get inthe middle anymore on the city.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Exactly.
And it is tricky because likethe public is so easy to be one
side or another.
So it does make on the marketingside and for companies hard to
find that middle because howoften do you find the public
finding that middle themselves?
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, I I'm I'mwatching like on a website right
now, um, an ad for Crown Royale.
And it's like, you know, you gota bunch of dudes with their
shirts off wearing aprons makinga drink for a woman at the end
of the table.
So, okay, how do we what what dowe do?
(08:40):
Like, I'm all for it if there'sgonna be an American Eagle ad
with the dude for the ladies,like, you know, let the ladies
have a little fun watching someI can.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, let's let's at least beexplicit with our audience here.
SPEAKER_02 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I think there is an opportunityto still do that, and I think
it'd be very smart if they did.
Also, for people that um don'tlike Ford, throw a Chevy in
there maybe this time, justsaying.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, I mean in the whole Give me a
Camaro.
Yeah, and I mean fantasyromance, God knows how many
different things you see onBookTalk and book and then uh
what is it, Bookdogram, theInstagram version of it.
Like, I mean, it's you canclearly tell when certain ads or
certain themes and topics aregeared toward one gender or one
demographic for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
But when you look at a cracker barrel and you look at
the front of the building andyou think that logo, that new
logo, was a good idea.
I mean, McDonald's redesignedtheir buildings.
There was somebody that made a,you know, when we posted about
it, I posted about it onLinkedIn.
I didn't this was before thecracker barrel thing blew up
because I I looked at the logoand I was like, you gotta be
kidding.
So I tagged our creativedirector, Mitch, and I was like,
(09:41):
Mitch, what do you think?
And he's like, All right, youasked for it.
So he went, he commented on mystuff, but then he went and
posted on his own, and that justblew up.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, I mean he phrased it phenomenally.
I actually ended up sharing hisphone his post because I saw
yours and then I saw Mitch's andI was like, okay, because I'm
I'm a graphic designer, Idefinitely resonate with this
more, so I'm gonna share it.
So either way, y'all got theexposure.
But you know, Mitch was onpoint.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yeah, he was on point, and you know, there was
somebody that brought up, youknow, what about McDonald's?
And Mitch was like, yeah, theygot a 30 years of brand equity
on them.
They can't compare it to CrackerBarrel, they they can't do that.
I mean, McDonald's was in the50s or 60s, early 60s or late
50s, and so you know, CrackerBarrel was in the mid-70s.
I'm like you, they there'sthere's an obvious disconnect
with knowing about leveragingbrand equity.
(10:26):
It's not like it's not we're notin the realm of marketing here,
we're in the realm of brand.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Right.
And you know, you have to alsolook at I say the history of the
company and of the brand, butlike if you think about it, um,
you know, Cracker Barrel, thewhole premise of them was they
were meant to be kind of like astore once you get off the
interstates, yeah, and you canbe a store and then a little
restaurant to get something toeat and then you know
eventually.
Yeah, exactly.
(10:51):
So then eventually it got to thepoint that you know the food was
getting more popular and some ofthe more old school and quote
unquote vintage stuff in theirstores was selling.
So they kind of pivoted awayfrom a gas station because you
know, every everyone and theirmother has a gas station right
across from each other, andthere's always five within a
block.
Um, so they kind of went wherethey were being successful, and
(11:12):
that in itself in and of itselfis a great strategy move.
Um so let's keep that partgoing.
The whole point is it's supposedto be, you know, a home-cooked
meal, it's supposed to besomething comforting.
You know, the inside, you know,is that old school farmhouse
vibe, which, you know, Iremember going in there with my
grandparents before we would goto our family farm.
(11:34):
Yes, I'm aware my family'sredneck.
We embrace it.
But we would go to our familyfarm on weekends.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
Know your audience.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Exactly.
And um, you know, we would go toCracker Barrel because it was
like a good halfway point and itwas better than fast food.
And, you know, it was it wasvery comforting vibe.
Like, you know, it would remindme a lot of my my grandparents'
house and stuff.
And so whenever I saw that, notonly did they like revamp their
brand, but they changed theinterior.
I'm like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
That was the gut punch because it was like you're
used to sitting there whileyou're waiting for your food
looking at all the weird stuff.
And I guess they felt like thatit was somebody's cluttered
closet and they just had toclean it up.
And I was just like, what isthis sanitation of this?
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
And it's the nostalgia of it all, too.
Like, I mean, if you're gonnahave this store that has 70s and
80s toys and, you know, oldervintage type um drinks and
candies and things like that,you know, the restaurant having
that same vibe is somethingcomforting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
And that's an industry, like the people that
decorate the inside of stores,that's an entire industry in and
of itself.
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
So the business that was lost from that when Cracker
Barrel made the change.
I mean, you brought up the factof the peg game and what
happened with that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
Oh, yeah.
Like I remember seeing thatTikTok.
So for context, um, the thefamily that owns the um company
that makes the the peg game, um,apparently the founder of
Cracker Barrel and that personwho founded the company, you
know, made an agreement,partnership, things like that.
Um, and then once Cracker Barreldecided to do the rebrand, you
(13:00):
know, they went back to thatcompany who, may I add, is
three-generation owned.
So the granddaughter owns andruns it now.
Um, they went to her and theywere just like, hey, so we don't
like the name of it, so you needto change it for us.
I mean, if you want to keeppromoting it as the peg game for
you, cool.
But for us, we're not gonnaallow it.
And she was like, Okay, well, Imean, what do you want to change
(13:23):
it to?
They wouldn't tell her, and thenthey were suggesting a bunch of
other brand changes and thingstoo, to the point that it was
like, This is not this is toomuch.
Like as a smaller business, evenwith a big contract like you
all, we can't do that.
So they ended up shutting down.
unknown (13:39):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
And then whenever, you know, everything went viral,
because she made a TikTok aboutit.
Um, and then whenever that wentviral and all the, you know, the
discourse with the rebrand wasgoing on.
Um, last I heard, and I knowthis is probably a couple weeks
old as of recording, but theyyou know, they had originally
sold off a lot of theirequipment, but I think either
(14:02):
now they're buying back theequipment or Cracker Barrel is
helping do something to helplike restore the business
because like they closed forabout a week or two.
And then Cracker Barrel cameback and they're like, okay,
let's let's reconsider, let'shave a conversation.
And so they're trying to rebuildtheir business back.
Um, I'll have to look at anupdate after this podcast and
see where it is now.
(14:22):
But like, I mean, not only doesit affect, you know, the
nostalgia of things, but youalso have to keep in mind that a
lot of big corporations workwith smaller businesses, they
work with mom and pops on stuff.
So it's like when you make a bigchange in a corporation, okay,
cool, that's great.
But there's a lot of otherparties that get impacted, and
from the marketing perspective,people don't consider it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
Yeah, we're we're kind of very much an end result
society where we see where thechicken is in the bin at Walm at
Kroger or whatever.
We don't really think about likehow it got there from the
beginning, from you know, fromthe egg to you know, your table,
and and it's sort of that's aproblem.
That's become a problem becauseum the supply chain when it got
(15:06):
rocked in 2020.
I mean, in in our world, peoplesee a Facebook post, but they
don't think about like how manypeople are holding that.
The editor, the person thatcreated it, the person that
wrote the caption, the personthat is going to post it and
schedule it.
I mean, these are all differentjobs, and sometimes I think I
get frustrated when people thinkit's one job because it's not.
(15:27):
Running your social mediayourself and running a business
to me is suicidal for thebusiness because you're going to
be so wrapped up and soconsumed.
I mean, social media is a timesuck.
Don't believe me.
If you have TikTok on yourphone, open it and then let me
know how you're doing next weekbecause you probably forgot to
shower.
So you will fall away.
And it's that way on YouTube.
(15:48):
I mean, it's just the way weconsume short form content now
because it's everywhere.
And I think it's business.
We think that oh, people aregonna want to watch our stuff.
No, they're not.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Um I'll tell you right now, from the social media
perspective, I mean, I can go ona whole soapbox on this because
that's what I do for my nine tofive, is I work on the digital
side of things.
So, you know, I'm in charge ofthis company's social media, and
you know, we're scheduling postsevery day because we're trying
to grow a following and tryingto grow an algorithm.
And so we're scheduling allthese different types of content
(16:18):
and posts, and you know, whatI'm doing is helping and it's
growing.
I mean, I'm not trying to brag,it's all awareness.
Well, it the the statistics showit.
It's not that I'm bragging onmyself, it's that the numbers
don't lie.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
Yeah, you have to watch that.
You have to really consider whatis your goal in social media.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Right, like the numbers don't lie.
It it what I'm doing is makingan impact, and that's fantastic.
But that being said, it's likeI'm the one that's writing the
caption, I'm the one that'sfilming a lot of the videos.
I mean, yeah, we get contentfrom the brands that we sell or
that we work with, but I wouldsay seven out of ten times I'm
(16:54):
making the content.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
So, like, yeah, sometimes that three out of ten,
they'll send us something and belike, hey, here's here's this
new product, promote it, here'sa video for it.
Okay, great.
That makes my life easy.
SPEAKER_02 (17:04):
But how how much time goes into you thinking
about how to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
Yeah, you got to storyboard it out, you gotta
plan out, okay, based on thisweek, here's what I'm doing.
You gotta appease eachalgorithm, you know, a whole the
whole thing about doing onevideo a week.
And, you know, how do you workaround that and making sure that
one week isn't just all salesand promotion, but then another
week isn't all just fluff andcrazy.
Like you got to balanceeverything out.
There's there's a strategy to itthat a lot of times either
(17:32):
people don't realize and theyjust think, oh, content
creation's easy, they don'trealize that there's strategy,
that there's steps, that there'scaption, record the content, or
take pictures, or edit um orspecific content for specific
channels.
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Or maybe your Instagram is doing something
different than Facebook.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Exactly.
So I mean, and it's one of thosethings that it's like it can be
done, but it definitely is alot.
And if you're gonna put socialmedia on one person, like that's
all they should do.
Granted, I'm a workaholic and alittle bit, and uh using your
term, I'm a unicorn, so I domore than just the social media,
(18:10):
but I can tell you right now itgets exhausting after a while,
especially when you're doingnine to five and freelancing.
It's people do not realize thebehind the scenes, like you
said, they focus on the endresult, which I mean I get it,
that's the whole point.
You're not gonna know the insand outs of every industry that
you get exposed to, but yeah,especially with media and social
(18:30):
media, digital, you know, peopledon't consider the ins and outs,
but they need to.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Yeah, there needs to be a consideration.
I mean, I get it.
I don't need to know how a carfunctions, and I don't need to
know how any of that works.
Um I just know that when I getin my car right now, I have to
push a button to start it.
But I'm from the area where wehad keys and those were pretty
freaking reliable.
Yeah.
And now they're gone.
So then you sit in your car andyou push a button and it doesn't
start the car.
You can I get a little pissedoff because I'm like, um, but if
(18:59):
I have a key, I can bypass thatand get my car started because
I'm now sitting inside a hot cartrying to figure out how to
start the damn thing, and all Ihave is a key fob, and it
doesn't seem to want to connectto the car.
So new is not always good.
Exactly.
Sometimes you just need to stickto what's reliable because uh in
a broken record, if it ain'tbroke, yeah, fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
I mean, I have we don't have to revolutionize
don't overthink it.
Yeah, we don't have to overthinkand revolutionize every single
thing.
Like sometimes it's just it'ssomething is static.
It's it works, it's reliable.
You know, let's not change everysingle thing because there's
already enough change going onand people are resistant to
change.
Yeah, nobody's keeping thingslet's keep things status quo and
(19:40):
let's just keep people happy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, nobody wakes up in the morning and goes like,
oh god, my basement is flooded.
I wonder if this plumbingcompany shares my philosophy of
life for me to hire them to fixmy basement.
No, they're like, oh my god, mybasement's flooded.
I don't feel like treadingwater.
Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Yeah, what what plumber is available?
Because I got to go with who cancome to my house today.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Today, like right now.
Like, yeah, fix the problem andthat's it.
And they're not gonna readthrough uh uh uh your we your
website or look at your socialmedia and then go like, oh well,
that's really cute and cool.
No, it's just fix the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
Right.
They might later on if you'redoing something explicitly.
If it's optional, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, but if you've got an emergency situation like
that, no way.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
And if there's something extreme, like you know
what I'm talking about, I can'tsay it.
But there's like if there'ssomething extreme that they're
promoting, then it's like, okay,maybe I shouldn't use them.
But nine times out of ten,you're needing something fixed
right then and there.
You're looking for who'savailable.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
I just need to get it done.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I just need it done.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's sort of the mentalitythat I think that we'll
eventually start to get back tobecause I think a lot of people
have gotten a little too farwith like I, you know, branding
is supposed to get you some kindof emotional attachment and all
of that.
That that is all still true, butit's all in my everything in
moderation.
Everything has to be balanced.
I mean, your imagery, theconsistency, the heritage of the
brand, all the key elements,whether if it's the mascot, if
(20:56):
it's a logo, if it's typography,these all things work together.
It's not like, oh, let's onlyfocus on, and that's the problem
I kind of have sometimes is likeeverybody just focuses on the
one thing, and I'm like, you'releaving out 70 others that
you're not to worry about, weare to worry about.
But you need to understand thatyou're paying for all of that,
not just the one.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
And I think that that's a big struggle with
agencies and with people that dowhat we do is that our customers
tend to think that, oh, I'm justgetting a logo.
No, the science that went behindthat is actually there, the
research, how people wouldrespond to the logo.
You know, we did a logo forsomebody, and Mitch has like he
had four or five versions, andhe wrote a synopsis of why he
came to that conclusion todesign the logo that way for
(21:35):
each one.
And he went through thatpresentation with the customer,
and it helped them understandwhy they were looking at what
they were looking at.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:42):
Because there were three that did not fit, and as
they were sitting there, andthis happens all the time,
right?
People think of crap that theydidn't tell you before.
Oh, by the way, I forgot tomention that this happened and
then this and this and this.
And if we've only had fivemeetings, I guarantee you, in
fifty meetings, we're stillgonna have somebody show up and
say, like, yeah, but what about?
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
And so it really kind of cleared the air ahead of
time in that way.
And there's a way that we dothat.
I mean, we never plop somethingdown and say, like, what do
y'all think?
We never do ever, ever do that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Exactly.
There's a method and there's areason, and you know, especially
with visual, like people tend tocome up with more of those, oh
yeah, moments when they seesomething.
I mean, that's more more likelywhen it happens, and not just as
I'm doing it or as I'm hearingit, it's as I see it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
Yeah, and we were working on a product for a
brand.
We weren't working on the mainbrand, it was a product the
brand was selling.
So we were branding that and uhworking on its identity, and so
that's that's the other thing.
So, but yeah, I mean HBO Maxwent to they went to Max, now
they're back to HBO Max becauseguess what?
HBO has a lot of brand equity,go figure.
You don't have something thatstarts from the 1980s and is at
(22:52):
the forefront of visual effects.
Do you remember that old openingthat HBO had?
SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
I do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
That's the beginning of After Effects in Adobe,
really.
You don't go that far back withsomething and just get rid of
that name and then go like, it'sfine.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah, we're gonna simplify it and make it new and
make it exciting, and thenpeople don't recognize it.
And then they're like, Well,what am I even paying for?
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's that.
Um, that leads to stakeholdersgetting involved now and their
expectations of things, and thennow your strategy is not aligned
with the messaging at all, andthat creates problems.
And then marketing's sittingover there going, like, but I
gotta post this to social mediatoday, and you're like, Yeah,
but the message isn't matchingwhat we're doing anymore.
So now everything is all twistedup and somebody's yelling
(23:36):
somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
Exactly.
Pretty much, yeah.
Pretty much.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Yeah.
So, anyways, uh legacy auditskind of help.
So, you know, if you're gonnaconsider a logo update, we're
gonna go through a couple thingsreal quick on this table.
Audit legacy, catalog all theexisting identity touch points,
your logo, your mascot, thedecor, topography, and their
meaning to stakeholders.
Why it matters?
It ensures you don'taccidentally throw out what
people love.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
If people like the barrel and the logo, then keep
the darn barrel.
Or Uncle Herschel.
Yeah, or Uncle Herschel, yeah,exactly.
I mean, your name is CrackerBarrel, you keep the barrel in
the logo.
I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
People were even joking, like you keep the
cracker too.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
It's in the name.
Keep both of the things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
So define core values and the differentiators.
What is non-negotiable, whatneeds to remain, what can
evolve, why?
Because it provides guardrailsand prevents drift.
That's very important what we'vebeen talking about.
Drift happens in brand.
It's just a thing whereeverybody just kind of goes, oh
no, no, no, no, you need to comeback over here.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
And I get that, like, sorry to interject, but
like I get that as times change,you have to pivot.
And sometimes with that, thereis a new look.
Like, I mean, go back to COVID.
Everyone had to pivot andeverybody had to have a new
strategy and a new look.
Sometimes it's just, okay,that's that's the nature of the
times.
Right.
But it doesn't always have to bewe have to have the newest, we
got to change everything, we gotto do this to stand out.
(25:03):
Keep the brand equity and keepwhat you're doing because you're
more likely to be successfulwhen you're recognizable.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
Yeah, you have to keep keep consistency.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, I'm going on so many side tangents, but
that's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
It's all relevant.
We'll let the robot figure outhow it works.
Anyways, if you've enjoyed thisepisode of the Nerdbrand
Podcast, go toNerdbrandAgency.com slash
podcast and you can listen tosome other episodes.
Sign up for a newsletter when anew podcast comes out.
We do have that.
You can go and like andsubscribe and do all the things
on our social medias.
Just search for the handle atNerdbrandAgency and uh keep your
(25:35):
nerd brand strong.
Let's go.
This episode of the NerdbrandPodcast is brand at the brink.
And uh yeah, iconic brands whenthey try to mar modernize the
margin of error is slim.
So uh this year we've seen a lotof uh branded entities refresh
refreshed that sparked backlash,and so yeah, you you could
probably read into what we'regonna talk about.
We welcome Danielle to the showwith us.
(00:21):
Hello, hello, and uh let's getstarted.
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Yes, back, back, back.
Oh good, Lord, Lord, Lord.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Yeah, I'm like, oh dear.
Okay, now it's alright.
So I guess where to start, whereto start.
We all know we're gonna talkabout Cracker Barrel because
what in the world?
That had to be like a psyop.
I mean, there really had to besomething there.
I think they did it on purpose,um, just to get negative
publicity.
SPEAKER_00 (01:14):
One thing's for certain the Southern Bell and
the Redneck in me really diedwhen I saw the new logo.
SPEAKER_02 (01:20):
Yeah, uh, we've talked about before how brands
have got a little bit just Idon't know, Mitch Mitch is a
little bit more eloquent, butI'm more like they've gotten
boring.
SPEAKER_00 (01:30):
Um I get that like simplification has been one of
those trends and one of thosethings, especially with like the
advancement of promotionalthings and where you can put
your logo.
So like the simpler the better,but in the same token, you still
have to have something that'sunique.
And if you've got something thatworks, you know, the old
expression, if it ain't broke,don't fix it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:50):
I um and theirs wasn't really broke.
SPEAKER_02 (01:54):
No, no, it really wasn't.
And I think that, you know, toyour point, you told a great,
you know, we were conversingabout this, that how it affected
and reverberated to otherbusinesses and industries.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Absolutely.
And, you know, it's one of thosethings too that not only when
you like from a marketingperspective, when cracker barrel
changes their logo and thingslike that, but you also kind of
look at, you know, and this isjust across the board, not just
cracker barrel, but how sinceCOVID quality of goods has gone
down, you know, food quality haskind of gone down.
So, you know, I know God knowshow many people who have said
(02:28):
cracker barrel just doesn'ttaste as good as it did a couple
of years ago.
SPEAKER_02 (02:32):
Yeah, it's really funny.
SPEAKER_00 (02:33):
Yeah, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:33):
So it's just let's rebrand, but our food still
sucks and service sucks.
SPEAKER_00 (02:37):
Right.
So it's like, okay, you're gonnashift your brand to something
that isn't really gonna beperceived well in addition to
worsening quality stuff.
So it's like, you know, let'skeep the good thing going.
And ironically enough, and Idon't know if you're gonna keep
this bit or not, but what wascrazy to me is whenever we found
out who the CEO was thatinitiated the change and
(03:00):
initiated all of the um newbranding stuff, come to find out
that CEO was the CEO of TacoBell in like 2020-2021.
Whenever they simplify wheneverthey simplified their menu and
like cut half their menu forbetter value bundles and
combinations and better qualityfood.
(03:20):
Their quality food has gone downthe toilet too, and it costs
just as much as any other fastfood place now.
So it's like, okay, I I can geta combo from McDonald's cheaper
than Taco Bell.
And and my favorite quesaritogot taken off.
So like, what the actual heck?
So, you know, it's kind ofironic how, like, you know, the
CEO for both of those, and youknow, again, I get
(03:43):
simplification, but you know, dobetter.
Just do better if you're gonnasimplify something, at least
make it higher quality orsomething.
Like, come on, y'all.
SPEAKER_02 (03:53):
Yeah, yeah.
I um I feel like all of thisstarted with Sydney Sweeney.
Yeah, it's her fault.
SPEAKER_00 (04:00):
You know what?
Yep.
I blame the influencers.
SPEAKER_02 (04:03):
Yeah.
But not in a bad way.
I mean, you know, she pros andcons.
Yeah.
It's really funny how she was,you know, this.
I I I never watched any of theepisodes of um that series that
she was in.
She did a lot of nudity.
And so, you know, people startedlooking at her, and it's really
(04:25):
funny how conservatives andeverybody's like, yeah, she's
one of us, because you know,they exposed her voting
registration and everything, youknow.
And I was like, um guys, this isa little I I get it, but let's
just talk about the ad.
First of all, it takes you backto that Americano type feel.
(04:46):
You got a um Mustang, you've gota girl, a pretty girl in blue
jeans, and um you got a play onwords.
I mean, when you just look at itlike that as an ad, it's like,
okay, that's I thought it was agood ad, frankly, in my opinion.
And so when I heard about allthe, you know, stu other stuff,
and I was just like, what?
I mean, that's really reaching.
SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
So yeah, like some of the some of the like the
reaches that they made on likethe more political stance, and
you know, obviously I can't usecertain words here, so I think
everybody knows what I'mimplying and what I'm saying.
Like some of that, I'm like,okay, that's a little bit of a
stretch, but I do get that it'slike, you know, you know, we
(05:28):
have good genes and you'retrying to do the G-E-N-E-S and
J-E-A-N-S pun, like L O L, I getit.
But there is a level of like,okay, we gotta look at our
demographics and we gotta lookat the world where we're at.
And I feel like it would havebeen more successful if they had
a range of different women, youknow, whether it's different age
(05:50):
groups or different um justdifferent types of people
instead of just, you know, yourstereotypical white woman with
blonde hair.
I mean, I'm one to talk.
I'm a I'm a white woman withbrown hair, so yeah, I think but
you know, like if it had someother other people in it, so
everybody felt more like it's itwas more relatable, and then you
(06:12):
could kind of play off of thatthat jeans part without seeming
like there was an implicit bias,if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02 (06:19):
I think it went pol I don't think that when they did
the ad that there was any sortof thought about that.
I think they were like, okay,she's she's creating a product
that she wants to advertise andthen give money to charity, and
that was probably the basisbehind it.
And then I think came the thetheme of how the ad what we saw.
And so I think that's why youdidn't get a a you know, like,
(06:40):
okay, let's see this type ofwoman, let's see this body type,
let's see this gender.
You know, I don't think that'swhy you didn't get that.
Oh, yeah.
Because that was never thetrajectory.
Um exactly.
And and I think people miss thatbecause they immediately want to
go for the hate.
And I think that that's sort ofjust an indicator of where we
are.
So now advertisers, you know,we're kind of back to where we
(07:01):
have to look at the the ads.
If you remember, Pepsi made amisstep about um the Kardashians
and her giving uh a Coke orPepsi to the police.
SPEAKER_00 (07:12):
That's right.
That was in the Super Bowl acouple of years ago, right?
SPEAKER_02 (07:14):
Right.
So now we're back to this wherewe have to think about when we
make an ad, are we who who onthe fringe or on the edge or
whomever are we going to offend?
And you know, you start to walkon eggshells, and that's not
fun.
SPEAKER_00 (07:26):
Exactly.
And like it's one thing ifyou're like, okay, we gotta be
blatantly obvious about certainthings, but then other things,
it's like, okay, that's a littlebit of a stretch.
And because of, you know, theidea that people can go viral
online, it's so easy for onecomment to then spiral a whole
theory or something.
Yeah, and I think that's how wegot to the discussion.
SPEAKER_02 (07:45):
I personally think that's how we got to Cracker
Barrel.
SPEAKER_00 (07:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:48):
I think that's how we got to what we saw with
Cracker Barrel.
SPEAKER_01 (07:50):
Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (07:51):
Let's make a thing that's the most watered-down
vanilla thing, non you know,offensive in the world.
And um Uber fail because it wenttoo far, the pendulum went the
other way.
Like nobody knows how to get inthe middle anymore on the city.
SPEAKER_00 (08:05):
Exactly.
And it is tricky because likethe public is so easy to be one
side or another.
So it does make on the marketingside and for companies hard to
find that middle because howoften do you find the public
finding that middle themselves?
SPEAKER_02 (08:19):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you know, I I'm I'mwatching like on a website right
now, um, an ad for Crown Royale.
And it's like, you know, you gota bunch of dudes with their
shirts off wearing aprons makinga drink for a woman at the end
of the table.
So, okay, how do we what what dowe do?
(08:40):
Like, I'm all for it if there'sgonna be an American Eagle ad
with the dude for the ladies,like, you know, let the ladies
have a little fun watching someI can.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, let's let's at least beexplicit with our audience here.
SPEAKER_02 (08:51):
Yeah, yeah.
I think there is an opportunityto still do that, and I think
it'd be very smart if they did.
Also, for people that um don'tlike Ford, throw a Chevy in
there maybe this time, justsaying.
SPEAKER_00 (09:00):
Yeah, you know, I mean in the whole Give me a
Camaro.
Yeah, and I mean fantasyromance, God knows how many
different things you see onBookTalk and book and then uh
what is it, Bookdogram, theInstagram version of it.
Like, I mean, it's you canclearly tell when certain ads or
certain themes and topics aregeared toward one gender or one
demographic for sure.
SPEAKER_02 (09:20):
But when you look at a cracker barrel and you look at
the front of the building andyou think that logo, that new
logo, was a good idea.
I mean, McDonald's redesignedtheir buildings.
There was somebody that made a,you know, when we posted about
it, I posted about it onLinkedIn.
I didn't this was before thecracker barrel thing blew up
because I I looked at the logoand I was like, you gotta be
kidding.
So I tagged our creativedirector, Mitch, and I was like,
(09:41):
Mitch, what do you think?
And he's like, All right, youasked for it.
So he went, he commented on mystuff, but then he went and
posted on his own, and that justblew up.
SPEAKER_00 (09:49):
Yeah, I mean he phrased it phenomenally.
I actually ended up sharing hisphone his post because I saw
yours and then I saw Mitch's andI was like, okay, because I'm
I'm a graphic designer, Idefinitely resonate with this
more, so I'm gonna share it.
So either way, y'all got theexposure.
But you know, Mitch was onpoint.
SPEAKER_02 (10:05):
Yeah, he was on point, and you know, there was
somebody that brought up, youknow, what about McDonald's?
And Mitch was like, yeah, theygot a 30 years of brand equity
on them.
They can't compare it to CrackerBarrel, they they can't do that.
I mean, McDonald's was in the50s or 60s, early 60s or late
50s, and so you know, CrackerBarrel was in the mid-70s.
I'm like you, they there'sthere's an obvious disconnect
with knowing about leveragingbrand equity.
(10:26):
It's not like it's not we're notin the realm of marketing here,
we're in the realm of brand.
SPEAKER_00 (10:30):
Right.
And you know, you have to alsolook at I say the history of the
company and of the brand, butlike if you think about it, um,
you know, Cracker Barrel, thewhole premise of them was they
were meant to be kind of like astore once you get off the
interstates, yeah, and you canbe a store and then a little
restaurant to get something toeat and then you know
eventually.
Yeah, exactly.
(10:51):
So then eventually it got to thepoint that you know the food was
getting more popular and some ofthe more old school and quote
unquote vintage stuff in theirstores was selling.
So they kind of pivoted awayfrom a gas station because you
know, every everyone and theirmother has a gas station right
across from each other, andthere's always five within a
block.
Um, so they kind of went wherethey were being successful, and
(11:12):
that in itself in and of itselfis a great strategy move.
Um so let's keep that partgoing.
The whole point is it's supposedto be, you know, a home-cooked
meal, it's supposed to besomething comforting.
You know, the inside, you know,is that old school farmhouse
vibe, which, you know, Iremember going in there with my
grandparents before we would goto our family farm.
(11:34):
Yes, I'm aware my family'sredneck.
We embrace it.
But we would go to our familyfarm on weekends.
SPEAKER_02 (11:39):
Know your audience.
SPEAKER_00 (11:41):
Exactly.
And um, you know, we would go toCracker Barrel because it was
like a good halfway point and itwas better than fast food.
And, you know, it was it wasvery comforting vibe.
Like, you know, it would remindme a lot of my my grandparents'
house and stuff.
And so whenever I saw that, notonly did they like revamp their
brand, but they changed theinterior.
I'm like that.
SPEAKER_02 (12:01):
That was the gut punch because it was like you're
used to sitting there whileyou're waiting for your food
looking at all the weird stuff.
And I guess they felt like thatit was somebody's cluttered
closet and they just had toclean it up.
And I was just like, what isthis sanitation of this?
I don't understand.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
And it's the nostalgia of it all, too.
Like, I mean, if you're gonnahave this store that has 70s and
80s toys and, you know, oldervintage type um drinks and
candies and things like that,you know, the restaurant having
that same vibe is somethingcomforting.
SPEAKER_02 (12:28):
And that's an industry, like the people that
decorate the inside of stores,that's an entire industry in and
of itself.
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
So the business that was lost from that when Cracker
Barrel made the change.
I mean, you brought up the factof the peg game and what
happened with that.
SPEAKER_00 (12:39):
Oh, yeah.
Like I remember seeing thatTikTok.
So for context, um, the thefamily that owns the um company
that makes the the peg game, um,apparently the founder of
Cracker Barrel and that personwho founded the company, you
know, made an agreement,partnership, things like that.
Um, and then once Cracker Barreldecided to do the rebrand, you
(13:00):
know, they went back to thatcompany who, may I add, is
three-generation owned.
So the granddaughter owns andruns it now.
Um, they went to her and theywere just like, hey, so we don't
like the name of it, so you needto change it for us.
I mean, if you want to keeppromoting it as the peg game for
you, cool.
But for us, we're not gonnaallow it.
And she was like, Okay, well, Imean, what do you want to change
(13:23):
it to?
They wouldn't tell her, and thenthey were suggesting a bunch of
other brand changes and thingstoo, to the point that it was
like, This is not this is toomuch.
Like as a smaller business, evenwith a big contract like you
all, we can't do that.
So they ended up shutting down.
unknown (13:39):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (13:40):
And then whenever, you know, everything went viral,
because she made a TikTok aboutit.
Um, and then whenever that wentviral and all the, you know, the
discourse with the rebrand wasgoing on.
Um, last I heard, and I knowthis is probably a couple weeks
old as of recording, but theyyou know, they had originally
sold off a lot of theirequipment, but I think either
(14:02):
now they're buying back theequipment or Cracker Barrel is
helping do something to helplike restore the business
because like they closed forabout a week or two.
And then Cracker Barrel cameback and they're like, okay,
let's let's reconsider, let'shave a conversation.
And so they're trying to rebuildtheir business back.
Um, I'll have to look at anupdate after this podcast and
see where it is now.
(14:22):
But like, I mean, not only doesit affect, you know, the
nostalgia of things, but youalso have to keep in mind that a
lot of big corporations workwith smaller businesses, they
work with mom and pops on stuff.
So it's like when you make a bigchange in a corporation, okay,
cool, that's great.
But there's a lot of otherparties that get impacted, and
from the marketing perspective,people don't consider it.
SPEAKER_02 (14:43):
Yeah, we're we're kind of very much an end result
society where we see where thechicken is in the bin at Walm at
Kroger or whatever.
We don't really think about likehow it got there from the
beginning, from you know, fromthe egg to you know, your table,
and and it's sort of that's aproblem.
That's become a problem becauseum the supply chain when it got
(15:06):
rocked in 2020.
I mean, in in our world, peoplesee a Facebook post, but they
don't think about like how manypeople are holding that.
The editor, the person thatcreated it, the person that
wrote the caption, the personthat is going to post it and
schedule it.
I mean, these are all differentjobs, and sometimes I think I
get frustrated when people thinkit's one job because it's not.
(15:27):
Running your social mediayourself and running a business
to me is suicidal for thebusiness because you're going to
be so wrapped up and soconsumed.
I mean, social media is a timesuck.
Don't believe me.
If you have TikTok on yourphone, open it and then let me
know how you're doing next weekbecause you probably forgot to
shower.
So you will fall away.
And it's that way on YouTube.
(15:48):
I mean, it's just the way weconsume short form content now
because it's everywhere.
And I think it's business.
We think that oh, people aregonna want to watch our stuff.
No, they're not.
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Um I'll tell you right now, from the social media
perspective, I mean, I can go ona whole soapbox on this because
that's what I do for my nine tofive, is I work on the digital
side of things.
So, you know, I'm in charge ofthis company's social media, and
you know, we're scheduling postsevery day because we're trying
to grow a following and tryingto grow an algorithm.
And so we're scheduling allthese different types of content
(16:18):
and posts, and you know, whatI'm doing is helping and it's
growing.
I mean, I'm not trying to brag,it's all awareness.
Well, it the the statistics showit.
It's not that I'm bragging onmyself, it's that the numbers
don't lie.
SPEAKER_02 (16:29):
Yeah, you have to watch that.
You have to really consider whatis your goal in social media.
SPEAKER_00 (16:33):
Right, like the numbers don't lie.
It it what I'm doing is makingan impact, and that's fantastic.
But that being said, it's likeI'm the one that's writing the
caption, I'm the one that'sfilming a lot of the videos.
I mean, yeah, we get contentfrom the brands that we sell or
that we work with, but I wouldsay seven out of ten times I'm
(16:54):
making the content.
SPEAKER_01 (16:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:55):
So, like, yeah, sometimes that three out of ten,
they'll send us something and belike, hey, here's here's this
new product, promote it, here'sa video for it.
Okay, great.
That makes my life easy.
SPEAKER_02 (17:04):
But how how much time goes into you thinking
about how to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (17:08):
Yeah, you got to storyboard it out, you gotta
plan out, okay, based on thisweek, here's what I'm doing.
You gotta appease eachalgorithm, you know, a whole the
whole thing about doing onevideo a week.
And, you know, how do you workaround that and making sure that
one week isn't just all salesand promotion, but then another
week isn't all just fluff andcrazy.
Like you got to balanceeverything out.
There's there's a strategy to itthat a lot of times either
(17:32):
people don't realize and theyjust think, oh, content
creation's easy, they don'trealize that there's strategy,
that there's steps, that there'scaption, record the content, or
take pictures, or edit um orspecific content for specific
channels.
Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
Or maybe your Instagram is doing something
different than Facebook.
SPEAKER_00 (17:49):
Exactly.
So I mean, and it's one of thosethings that it's like it can be
done, but it definitely is alot.
And if you're gonna put socialmedia on one person, like that's
all they should do.
Granted, I'm a workaholic and alittle bit, and uh using your
term, I'm a unicorn, so I domore than just the social media,
(18:10):
but I can tell you right now itgets exhausting after a while,
especially when you're doingnine to five and freelancing.
It's people do not realize thebehind the scenes, like you
said, they focus on the endresult, which I mean I get it,
that's the whole point.
You're not gonna know the insand outs of every industry that
you get exposed to, but yeah,especially with media and social
(18:30):
media, digital, you know, peopledon't consider the ins and outs,
but they need to.
SPEAKER_02 (18:36):
Yeah, there needs to be a consideration.
I mean, I get it.
I don't need to know how a carfunctions, and I don't need to
know how any of that works.
Um I just know that when I getin my car right now, I have to
push a button to start it.
But I'm from the area where wehad keys and those were pretty
freaking reliable.
Yeah.
And now they're gone.
So then you sit in your car andyou push a button and it doesn't
start the car.
You can I get a little pissedoff because I'm like, um, but if
(18:59):
I have a key, I can bypass thatand get my car started because
I'm now sitting inside a hot cartrying to figure out how to
start the damn thing, and all Ihave is a key fob, and it
doesn't seem to want to connectto the car.
So new is not always good.
Exactly.
Sometimes you just need to stickto what's reliable because uh in
a broken record, if it ain'tbroke, yeah, fix it.
SPEAKER_00 (19:20):
I mean, I have we don't have to revolutionize
don't overthink it.
Yeah, we don't have to overthinkand revolutionize every single
thing.
Like sometimes it's just it'ssomething is static.
It's it works, it's reliable.
You know, let's not change everysingle thing because there's
already enough change going onand people are resistant to
change.
Yeah, nobody's keeping thingslet's keep things status quo and
(19:40):
let's just keep people happy.
SPEAKER_02 (19:42):
Yeah, nobody wakes up in the morning and goes like,
oh god, my basement is flooded.
I wonder if this plumbingcompany shares my philosophy of
life for me to hire them to fixmy basement.
No, they're like, oh my god, mybasement's flooded.
I don't feel like treadingwater.
Uh-oh, uh-oh, uh-oh.
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
Yeah, what what plumber is available?
Because I got to go with who cancome to my house today.
SPEAKER_02 (19:59):
Today, like right now.
Like, yeah, fix the problem andthat's it.
And they're not gonna readthrough uh uh uh your we your
website or look at your socialmedia and then go like, oh well,
that's really cute and cool.
No, it's just fix the problem.
SPEAKER_00 (20:10):
Right.
They might later on if you'redoing something explicitly.
If it's optional, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:15):
Yeah, but if you've got an emergency situation like
that, no way.
SPEAKER_00 (20:18):
And if there's something extreme, like you know
what I'm talking about, I can'tsay it.
But there's like if there'ssomething extreme that they're
promoting, then it's like, okay,maybe I shouldn't use them.
But nine times out of ten,you're needing something fixed
right then and there.
You're looking for who'savailable.
SPEAKER_02 (20:32):
I just need to get it done.
SPEAKER_00 (20:33):
Yeah, I just need it done.
SPEAKER_02 (20:34):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's sort of the mentalitythat I think that we'll
eventually start to get back tobecause I think a lot of people
have gotten a little too farwith like I, you know, branding
is supposed to get you some kindof emotional attachment and all
of that.
That that is all still true, butit's all in my everything in
moderation.
Everything has to be balanced.
I mean, your imagery, theconsistency, the heritage of the
brand, all the key elements,whether if it's the mascot, if
(20:56):
it's a logo, if it's typography,these all things work together.
It's not like, oh, let's onlyfocus on, and that's the problem
I kind of have sometimes is likeeverybody just focuses on the
one thing, and I'm like, you'releaving out 70 others that
you're not to worry about, weare to worry about.
But you need to understand thatyou're paying for all of that,
not just the one.
SPEAKER_01 (21:13):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:14):
And I think that that's a big struggle with
agencies and with people that dowhat we do is that our customers
tend to think that, oh, I'm justgetting a logo.
No, the science that went behindthat is actually there, the
research, how people wouldrespond to the logo.
You know, we did a logo forsomebody, and Mitch has like he
had four or five versions, andhe wrote a synopsis of why he
came to that conclusion todesign the logo that way for
(21:35):
each one.
And he went through thatpresentation with the customer,
and it helped them understandwhy they were looking at what
they were looking at.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:42):
Because there were three that did not fit, and as
they were sitting there, andthis happens all the time,
right?
People think of crap that theydidn't tell you before.
Oh, by the way, I forgot tomention that this happened and
then this and this and this.
And if we've only had fivemeetings, I guarantee you, in
fifty meetings, we're stillgonna have somebody show up and
say, like, yeah, but what about?
SPEAKER_01 (22:03):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
And so it really kind of cleared the air ahead of
time in that way.
And there's a way that we dothat.
I mean, we never plop somethingdown and say, like, what do
y'all think?
We never do ever, ever do that.
SPEAKER_00 (22:12):
Exactly.
There's a method and there's areason, and you know, especially
with visual, like people tend tocome up with more of those, oh
yeah, moments when they seesomething.
I mean, that's more more likelywhen it happens, and not just as
I'm doing it or as I'm hearingit, it's as I see it.
SPEAKER_02 (22:30):
Yeah, and we were working on a product for a
brand.
We weren't working on the mainbrand, it was a product the
brand was selling.
So we were branding that and uhworking on its identity, and so
that's that's the other thing.
So, but yeah, I mean HBO Maxwent to they went to Max, now
they're back to HBO Max becauseguess what?
HBO has a lot of brand equity,go figure.
You don't have something thatstarts from the 1980s and is at
(22:52):
the forefront of visual effects.
Do you remember that old openingthat HBO had?
SPEAKER_00 (22:56):
I do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
That's the beginning of After Effects in Adobe,
really.
You don't go that far back withsomething and just get rid of
that name and then go like, it'sfine.
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
Yeah, we're gonna simplify it and make it new and
make it exciting, and thenpeople don't recognize it.
And then they're like, Well,what am I even paying for?
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Yeah, yeah.
So there's that.
Um, that leads to stakeholdersgetting involved now and their
expectations of things, and thennow your strategy is not aligned
with the messaging at all, andthat creates problems.
And then marketing's sittingover there going, like, but I
gotta post this to social mediatoday, and you're like, Yeah,
but the message isn't matchingwhat we're doing anymore.
So now everything is all twistedup and somebody's yelling
(23:36):
somewhere.
SPEAKER_00 (23:37):
Exactly.
Pretty much, yeah.
Pretty much.
SPEAKER_02 (23:42):
Yeah.
So, anyways, uh legacy auditskind of help.
So, you know, if you're gonnaconsider a logo update, we're
gonna go through a couple thingsreal quick on this table.
Audit legacy, catalog all theexisting identity touch points,
your logo, your mascot, thedecor, topography, and their
meaning to stakeholders.
Why it matters?
It ensures you don'taccidentally throw out what
people love.
SPEAKER_00 (24:02):
If people like the barrel and the logo, then keep
the darn barrel.
Or Uncle Herschel.
Yeah, or Uncle Herschel, yeah,exactly.
I mean, your name is CrackerBarrel, you keep the barrel in
the logo.
I mean, come on.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
People were even joking, like you keep the
cracker too.
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
Exactly.
Exactly.
It's in the name.
Keep both of the things.
SPEAKER_02 (24:21):
So define core values and the differentiators.
What is non-negotiable, whatneeds to remain, what can
evolve, why?
Because it provides guardrailsand prevents drift.
That's very important what we'vebeen talking about.
Drift happens in brand.
It's just a thing whereeverybody just kind of goes, oh
no, no, no, no, you need to comeback over here.
SPEAKER_00 (24:40):
And I get that, like, sorry to interject, but
like I get that as times change,you have to pivot.
And sometimes with that, thereis a new look.
Like, I mean, go back to COVID.
Everyone had to pivot andeverybody had to have a new
strategy and a new look.
Sometimes it's just, okay,that's that's the nature of the
times.
Right.
But it doesn't always have to bewe have to have the newest, we
got to change everything, we gotto do this to stand out.
(25:03):
Keep the brand equity and keepwhat you're doing because you're
more likely to be successfulwhen you're recognizable.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
Yeah, you have to keep keep consistency.
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
Yeah, I'm going on so many side tangents, but
that's okay.
SPEAKER_02 (25:14):
It's all relevant.
We'll let the robot figure outhow it works.
Anyways, if you've enjoyed thisepisode of the Nerdbrand
Podcast, go toNerdbrandAgency.com slash
podcast and you can listen tosome other episodes.
Sign up for a newsletter when anew podcast comes out.
We do have that.
You can go and like andsubscribe and do all the things
on our social medias.
Just search for the handle atNerdbrandAgency and uh keep your
(25:35):
nerd brand strong.
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