June 6, 2025 • 20 mins
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
So as Mitch rushes to put his earphones on.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Okay, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of NerdBrand Podcast, we'll talk
about analysis, paralysis, howprocrastination and
micromanaging small problems cankill business momentum and
stunt revenue growth.
I got all of that out in onebreath.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
In our pre-podcast discussion we kind of sort of
solved the problem, so okay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
See you all later.
Yep, here we go Up next.
Welcome to this episode of theNerd Brand Podcast, where we
(00:49):
talk about procrastination andmicromanaging.
Smaller problems can killbusiness momentum and stunt your
revenue growth.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You're like Jim Carrey, don't you?
Deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, so anyways, obsessing over the small stuff.
So I'm going to look at it fromthe big picture CEO, business
owner perspective.
You guys, I'd like for you well, especially you, michaela,
project manager at agencyoperation focus grounded kind of
executions perspective.
But you know, you're stucktweaking the logo.
For the 15th time You'vedelayed launch by a month
(01:20):
because the business cardsaren't ready.
By month.
Because the business cardsaren't ready Meanwhile,
meanwhile, at the Hall ofJustice, your competitors are in
market and they're making money.
So how does procrastination andobsessing over non-revenue
generating tasks they quietlykill the business dream.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Sometimes I think it's procrastination.
You said it's analysis,paralysis.
I mean you lead a business, youunderstand how easy it is to
get lost in the minutiae,because there's so much of it,
yeah, especially when you're asmall business like us and you
don't have you don't have otherpeople that you can kind of
assign certain responsibilitiesyou're doing all of it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, pro tip, I just ignore it you tell anxiety,
because it's also a little bitanxiety driven too, which you
know riddens my body and you'relike go away anxiety.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I don't like you yeah , people, people look at me like
how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
and I'm like I just tell it to piss off and I don't
worry about it it's kind offunny I always said this about
myself that I have I've hateddeadlines since I was in
elementary school yeah tell meI've got a book report to do and
it's due in three weeks, and Iwas going to be the one who
waited till 10 o'clock the nightbefore to get it done.
What am I in?
I'm in an industry where timeis everything.
(02:34):
You've got publication deadlinesyou've got.
Brand launch deadlines you'vegot.
And you know, everybody'sdeadline is my deadline.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So that's the industry I chose to go in.
And now the industry that weare in, we do an ad campaign.
We got to get the ad campaignout because Father's Day doesn't
change everybody, it's still onthe same fricking day.
Dates are dates, but if youhave a campaign that doesn't
really have a necessarilywrapped around a holiday, and
you got to get stuff done.
How many times have we seenother brands where they've had
(03:02):
to pivot really quickly becauseuh-oh, if we put that ad out,
everybody's going to get reallymad because now it's tone deaf
as to what's going on currentlyin society.
Exactly Right, you got to beaware of that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Dreaded 24-hour news cycle.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, so those are legitimate things to keep on the
radar and be aware of, but thisis the stuff that is internal
in your head and I see it allthe time with founders and
owners is waiting for thisperfection and, and you know,
it's like no, it's never, ever,ever, ever going to be perfect,
(03:33):
amen.
And the motto of a businessowner is figure it out.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Don't wait for the other shoe to drop.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, and from the creative side of things, one of
the things I've learned, and youhit the nail on the head I had
the benefit of working under acouple of very, very, very
seasoned senior art directorswhen I first got in the business
.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, and one of them told me very early on you have
to stop touching it, you need togo touch grass, you need to
take it from there Just topreface this.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We're talking about a project.
Yeah, yeah, thank you, becausesometimes you just, depending on
where people stop the podcast,you start again.
It might you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You have to put it down and leave it alone.
At some point you have to bedone right, and the irony is
that I've I've come to realizeas a creative director in my own
right now is that the morespontaneous it is, the higher
the likelihood is it's going tobe right.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, you're going to make it worse.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And one of the things they preach to us in design
school from every art class Ihad through elementary school
was that your first idea isn'tusually your best.
I've come to the conclusionthat that's not necessarily the
case.
Sometimes your freshest,cleanest first jump concept can
(04:59):
be the best because it's notadulterated by rethinking,
because it's not adulterated byrethinking overworking.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Sometimes, yeah, I mean, there's been instances
where I'm like, okay, thissounds really cool, and then you
kind of think it through andeverything, and then you and I
have gone back and forth onstuff and I'm like, no, it needs
something else to be punchier.
Sometimes To clarify the point,right, and it's like, okay, we
need to do that because it kindof leaves a little bit too much
ambiguity to what you're tryingto communicate.
So you got to do clean, do thatwork, but yeah, you don't spend
(05:30):
six months on it and then do itwhile your marketing
department's trying to figureout like, what am I putting on
social media this month?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
you know well here's the thing in a lot of these
cases, whether it's working onyour financial information for
the company or where you'reactually working on a creative
project, it's like who are youtrying to satisfy?
Are you trying to satisfy theinner voices in your head?
Are you trying to satisfy theobjectives, the at the absolute
objectives of the process, theproject?
(05:58):
Yeah, if you check all theboxes, if you're achieving all
the top three things you need toachieve in that ad, that logo,
logo, that, whatever it is,you've done the job Right.
You've done the job.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
So on the project manager side,I'll let you kind of take it,
Mikayla, if you would.
Even if you have to read itverbatim, I'll read it verbatim
From the agency side.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
We see clients delay campaigns over stuff that's
invisible to the customer.
Fonts, delay campaigns overstuff that's invisible to the
customer.
Fonts, color shades, one moreround of revisions.
Yeah, I could see that like.
But we also have some clientsthat are like, oh, it's good to
go and like you know, those areour bread and butter but like,
yeah, those are our favorites,yeah those are our, but that's
based on part of that.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's because they trust us right just like Jason,
trusting he'll hand a projectover to me, why he trusts me to
get it done.
He gives something to you,especially as project manager,
because he trusts you thatyou're going to take these
myriad of things that have toget done.
He knows you'll get it done.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, I mostly have a picture in my head of Michaela
with the switch and then she'srunning after you and everybody
and just beating you all.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And I'm just kind of sitting back.
Going like this is kind offunny.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well you'll be happy to know that that doesn't happen
very often.
No, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, I mean sometimes, because you know you got a lot
of things to do.
Something slips through thecracks once in a while right,
yeah, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I don't really lose sleep.
You know, mcgayla's like I'mgonna get this photo shoot
organized with mitch for theclient.
Okie dokie, I mean you're'reworking on something right now
with one of our contractors toget an email design for a client
and some ads and everythingelse synced up with Reba and I'm
like, okay, and I haven't beenkeeping track of that because
that is me getting into themicro or the minutia, that's it.
(07:37):
I get the hell out.
I'm done.
I did the thing.
This is what we need.
Bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Procrastination and paralysis can happen a lot of
times just simply because youwon't let go of it and you don't
have enough trust in the peoplethat you're working with to get
it done.
You're holding it too close.
It's an attachment issue.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Right, yeah, it is, it is.
It's an internal thing thathappens with owners quite a lot,
and you'll cause your team toburn out, you'll cause budgets
to bloat and eventually themomentum you're trying to build
is gone and you will never getit back.
So if you're still personallychecking every email, editing
every social post, you're notleading, you're micromanaging.
(08:17):
So you need to trust your team.
You hired them for a reason.
You're in the weeds.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
You can't see the road ahead period, or if you're
a client.
I mean I understand howdifficult it must be, because I
one of the things I've alwaysunderstood very deeply is we're
like doctors and these peopleare trusting us with the health
of their company yeah, okay wehave a sacred trust.
Well, you chose us to do thework, so I want you to relax.
Let it go.
Trust us.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
We're going to get it done.
Yeah, the neurosurgeon doesn'ttake a break from doing brain
surgery.
Go around the table and thenwork on the heart or monitor the
you know, or any of the otherthings other people do in the
room.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I feel like that also plays on fear too, like kind of
tying anxiety and fear, becauseit's kind of like you know, you
get burned by doctors too withmalpractice cases.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And in our industry there's alot of people that say a lot of
dumb crap and promise a lot ofstuff that cannot be promised
because there's no guarantees inmarketing.
Sorry, there's just not.
This is not a furniture store.
You're not going to go in andget a hundred.
You know, 90 day back guarantee.
Um, you know, if you don't likehow things are going in 90 days,
then sure you can go to anotheragency.
(09:29):
But here's the thing you know,when you do ads it's like a
birthday party.
I'm going to throw a birthdayparty and it's in August, and
you start talking to peopleabout it in June and then all of
a sudden you're like well, Iwant to change my birth date,
I'm going to move it to October.
Well, shit, everybody had ontheir calendar for August.
So now that audience is gone.
Now you got to rebuild theaudience for the new date, for
(09:52):
the new thing, for whatever itis.
But here's the thing it doesn'treally work that way.
They're gone, they're like youdon't know what the hell.
I got other things to do.
We're such a distraction-drivensociety the moment you don't
stay the course and staycommitted that 90 days is
necessary to build an audienceand then to retarget ads to
people that have already seenthe ad.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, momentum.
Everything you're doing iseverything you're creating,
every strategy you're developingis an effort to create momentum
.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, so you don't start on the tactical side and
go like I don't feel like it'sworking, I'm going to quit.
Well, yeah, there's also thatfear of missing out where it's
like well, if I stay with it,then maybe I'll just stay one
more time.
It's like also, too, I wouldbring to light you're not mining
for gold.
Just one more pickaxe swing inthe mine and I'm going to find
that nugget and we're going tobe rich.
(10:41):
It's not that either.
You know, maybe you're justdigging in the wrong spot, but
there's a lot of work that'sdone to figure out where to dig,
and that's the, that's thestrategy, that's what's
important.
And and I you know the mostsuccessful clients we got.
I mean they, they delegate anddecide.
They don't treat $10 tasks like10,000 decisions, you know, and
it's just $10,000 decisions,and so um, um, yeah, I mean
(11:04):
michaela is a project managerand details a lot.
I mean it's kind of your job.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
oh, yeah, I mean I, I feel like ever since, kind of
like, when you're mentioningbook reports earlier I'm like I
was very much task oriented butlike I had a lot of, especially
when we were moving, moving fromnew jersey to out here I had
some anxiety so like, but it waspersonal life, personal noise
that was going on, that I wouldmiss deadlines or forget a
textbook and do my homework andstuff like that.
But once, like you know, I'vebuilt a foundation, especially
(11:32):
like middle school.
That's where a foundation, aroutine, is really built.
Like you know, time management,you gotta go to the locker on
time.
You have no idea the stress ofjust like going to my locker,
remembering the combination,having the five minutes to get
there, like I I was in analysis,paralysis, wanted to be on time
, wanted to exceed a deadline,like the handbooks or agendas
(11:52):
that were always given at thebeginning of the year where you
record your assignments, thesatisfaction of just striking it
out like it's done I couldactually write the paper but the
fact that I scraped it off thelist, it's like closing tasks
for whenever we get stuff done.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's just the satisfaction.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
It's like heroin.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, it is.
It's funny you should mentionthat because I mean again
somebody who fought deadlinestheir entire school life.
I tend to try to work as muchas I can a little bit ahead For
one thing that helps you.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Jason.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It helps you and it helps me, because you never know
when one of these projectswe're working on something's
going to happen and it's goingto have to jump ahead in a line
for some reason.
Well, I'm in good shape becauseI've gotten all these other
projects.
I've got everything set whereit needs to be.
I got this accomplished a dayearly, so it's not going to be
in the way.
It's because you have margins.
(12:45):
It's not going to be in the way.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, you're not working in the margins.
You have margin of error builtin, right, yeah, and I'll say
approve to send.
That's me telling you all.
I don't need to tell the clienthere's your things.
That level of accountmanagement is micromanagement,
so you guys can just send it tothem.
You can talk to them.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
They know who you are .
Places like loomly where youcan just have like the actual
yeah deliverable there and theycan just approve it, or you know
, or back to the drawing boardthat makes it so much easier.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, that's.
That's kind of a nice thingabout an organization.
Our size is.
Clients are generallycomfortable talking to any of us
.
Now we still have sort of apoint person.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm the point person.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Jason's the central point of contact for most of our
clients, but when it comes todeliverables, they're perfectly
comfortable hearing from any anyone of us.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right, yeah, because you both have.
You're the project manager,you're the creative director,
you're not, you know, you're notthe secretary and you're not
the graphic designer.
And you may do a bit of thoseroles, because we're in a weird
era and decade of civilization.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, we're a small organization, it's a very small
part, it's a team effort.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean you're probably going to be faster than
me and Mitch at scheduling acalendar, and then you're done.
That's for faster at me than meand mitch at scheduling a
calendar, and then you're done,and then you're, you're off to
something else.
Yeah, it's because, don't askmitch to do that.
And for those that are like, ismitch coming to the meeting, we
yell at mitch once a month tosay would you please accept?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
every time, like you know I just, most of the time,
most of the time I just kind ofgo by.
Well, if you put me in ameeting and invite me, assume,
assume I'm going to be thereunless I speak and say, oh wait
a minute, I can't be therebecause it's so rare that.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I can't be there.
You know, there's a button thatsays maybe a decline.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I always put tentative, like whenever I was
in Phoenix.
I'm like I may not because thetime difference, I'm like I'm
just going to put it astentative.
Yeah, from now.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
But see, right now it's like for the rest of us
what that does on the schedule,especially for you.
It's like kind of lets you know, like okay, this is the person
that's going to be there, so themeeting may only take 30
minutes, but if these otherpeople show up, then it's going
to be an hour because they'regoing to have a portion of it.
If they say maybe, then I don'tnecessarily need to consider
the whole hour is going to beused.
(14:58):
We could be out the door in 30,that's okay.
I love 30 minute meetings.
You know, we're getting therewith some of with some clients.
They're kind of on their backback foot, so we gotta get them
up there meetings are the baneof getting anything accomplished
yeah, I mean we've had productlaunches delay, you know getting
into like how small businessescan like get some wins here,
okay.
So we've had product launchesdelay over tiny packaging tweaks
.
Meanwhile the market moved on.
(15:19):
So revenue doesn't come frominternal debates, it comes from
shipped products, live campaignsand clear offers action yeah,
doing the thing rather thanpondering it, right so yeah, for
you uh I've seen entirequarters wasted trying to get
the website project perfect,perfect before starting ads.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
By the time it's done , budget budgets burn and
momentum's gone.
Yeah, I tested that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, it's like progress beats perfection
always.
It just is.
Sometimes you just got to getit done.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, and the truth of the matter is 99% of the time
the end audience has noawareness of any of the behind
the scenes stuff that goes on.
They just see the message and99.9% of the time it's going to
hit what it's where it'ssupposed to hit.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know, we procrastinate
dirty secret.
We procrastinate because we'reafraid, afraid to fail.
No, michaela, hit a nail ahead,fear, fear fear is the most
(16:51):
corrosive element in anydecision making, and it's just,
it's, it's uh, I'll take it fromhere.
Perfectionism is fear indisguise.
People want to feel ready, butbusiness doesn't wait for you,
for your comfort zone, to catchup.
It applies looking at somebodylike me, anyways, to make the
final call.
I'm not afraid of that becauseI'm not afraid to make mistakes.
I'm not afraid to put somethingout there and be like oopsies,
that was broke.
Let's put that back one away.
(17:11):
Let's roll that back.
Let's do that.
I I don't care, cause Iunderstand attention spans from
people.
I understand I focus more onpeople's behaviors than I do,
more than anything.
I focus more on people'sbehaviors than I do, more than
anything.
So if somebody doesn't likesomething we put out, okay,
that's your opinion.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But that's all, it is Well that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Go somewhere else and you get the same thing.
It's subjective.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, that's kind of the thing I mean and I've told
you this from the first day wedecided we were going to do this
thing and that is that you'vegot to keep a client's mind out
of the subjective.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The opinion.
Things Keep everybody and thisis internally and externally you
keep everybody focused onobjective things, the things you
can check a box and say, yes,we accomplished this.
Yes, we accomplished this.
Yes, we accomplished this.
If you've done that, you'vedone the job.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, we had a client that wanted people to know
about meeting spaces in theirbuilding.
It took an entire year for themto just realize that that
business existed down the streetNow, nevermind the fact that
they had meeting spaces withinit.
So we were tasked for, hey, wewant more people having meetings
there.
Okay, well, we'll just shoveevery business organization
group we can and tell them aboutit and get them in there, even
(18:25):
if we use blackmail.
And it worked and now they havea steady flow.
Now is it a high dollar valuefor them in comparison to
company corporate events?
No, but it opened the door forthem to start coming in, because
they became aware, and beforeit was worse than that.
It was like oh, we didn't knowyou had meeting spaces.
No, they didn't know theyexisted, right.
(18:45):
So there is a whole year there.
So you have to start now,because if it's going to take a
year to do something, forsomething to catch on that no
one knows about, you cannot wait, just can't.
You're already behind and youknow, I've said before, if
you're on your back, back foot,it's very difficult for us to
help, it's very difficult for usto take on as a client because
(19:08):
it may be too late.
There's a few businesses rightnow I'm watching that are
closing shop.
They may not know it or fullyadmit it, but they're going to
this year and it's because theydelayed.
They did not invest inmarketing and advertising at all
.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Well, it's a lack of focus.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Which again goes back to decision making, which goes
back to what Michaela said aboutfear.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So, anyways, if you'restruggling with that, you're
like I don't know if it's fear,I don't know if it's maybe
because I just don't have theright team, I don't have the
right budget.
You can listen to this podcaston nerdbrandagentscom slash
podcast, and you know, like Isaid, decide fast, have the
right people in place, just act,just act.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's really it.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Just do.
It's like the Nike slogan Justdo it.
You know you gotta, you cannotsit and just think and think,
and think, and think and think.
That's not the market, it'smoving past you, literally.
So.
So, anyways, we hope you foundit useful.
We'll see you next week andremember, keep your nerd band
strong.
So as Mitch rushes to put his earphones on.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Okay, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On this episode of NerdBrand Podcast, we'll talk
about analysis, paralysis, howprocrastination and
micromanaging small problems cankill business momentum and
stunt revenue growth.
I got all of that out in onebreath.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
In our pre-podcast discussion we kind of sort of
solved the problem, so okay.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
See you all later.
Yep, here we go Up next.
Welcome to this episode of theNerd Brand Podcast, where we
(00:49):
talk about procrastination andmicromanaging.
Smaller problems can killbusiness momentum and stunt your
revenue growth.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You're like Jim Carrey, don't you?
Deep breath, deep breath.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Yeah, so anyways, obsessing over the small stuff.
So I'm going to look at it fromthe big picture CEO, business
owner perspective.
You guys, I'd like for you well, especially you, michaela,
project manager at agencyoperation focus grounded kind of
executions perspective.
But you know, you're stucktweaking the logo.
For the 15th time You'vedelayed launch by a month
(01:20):
because the business cardsaren't ready.
By month.
Because the business cardsaren't ready Meanwhile,
meanwhile, at the Hall ofJustice, your competitors are in
market and they're making money.
So how does procrastination andobsessing over non-revenue
generating tasks they quietlykill the business dream.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
Sometimes I think it's procrastination.
You said it's analysis,paralysis.
I mean you lead a business, youunderstand how easy it is to
get lost in the minutiae,because there's so much of it,
yeah, especially when you're asmall business like us and you
don't have you don't have otherpeople that you can kind of
assign certain responsibilitiesyou're doing all of it.
Speaker 3 (01:59):
Yeah, pro tip, I just ignore it you tell anxiety,
because it's also a little bitanxiety driven too, which you
know riddens my body and you'relike go away anxiety.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I don't like you yeah , people, people look at me like
how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
and I'm like I just tell it to piss off and I don't
worry about it it's kind offunny I always said this about
myself that I have I've hateddeadlines since I was in
elementary school yeah tell meI've got a book report to do and
it's due in three weeks, and Iwas going to be the one who
waited till 10 o'clock the nightbefore to get it done.
What am I in?
I'm in an industry where timeis everything.
(02:34):
You've got publication deadlinesyou've got.
Brand launch deadlines you'vegot.
And you know, everybody'sdeadline is my deadline.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
So that's the industry I chose to go in.
And now the industry that weare in, we do an ad campaign.
We got to get the ad campaignout because Father's Day doesn't
change everybody, it's still onthe same fricking day.
Dates are dates, but if youhave a campaign that doesn't
really have a necessarilywrapped around a holiday, and
you got to get stuff done.
How many times have we seenother brands where they've had
(03:02):
to pivot really quickly becauseuh-oh, if we put that ad out,
everybody's going to get reallymad because now it's tone deaf
as to what's going on currentlyin society.
Exactly Right, you got to beaware of that.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Dreaded 24-hour news cycle.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, so those are legitimate things to keep on the
radar and be aware of, but thisis the stuff that is internal
in your head and I see it allthe time with founders and
owners is waiting for thisperfection and, and you know,
it's like no, it's never, ever,ever, ever going to be perfect,
(03:33):
amen.
And the motto of a businessowner is figure it out.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Don't wait for the other shoe to drop.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Yeah, and from the creative side of things, one of
the things I've learned, and youhit the nail on the head I had
the benefit of working under acouple of very, very, very
seasoned senior art directorswhen I first got in the business
.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Yeah, and one of them told me very early on you have
to stop touching it, you need togo touch grass, you need to
take it from there Just topreface this.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
We're talking about a project.
Yeah, yeah, thank you, becausesometimes you just, depending on
where people stop the podcast,you start again.
It might you know exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You have to put it down and leave it alone.
At some point you have to bedone right, and the irony is
that I've I've come to realizeas a creative director in my own
right now is that the morespontaneous it is, the higher
the likelihood is it's going tobe right.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, you're going to make it worse.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
And one of the things they preach to us in design
school from every art class Ihad through elementary school
was that your first idea isn'tusually your best.
I've come to the conclusionthat that's not necessarily the
case.
Sometimes your freshest,cleanest first jump concept can
(04:59):
be the best because it's notadulterated by rethinking,
because it's not adulterated byrethinking overworking.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Sometimes, yeah, I mean, there's been instances
where I'm like, okay, thissounds really cool, and then you
kind of think it through andeverything, and then you and I
have gone back and forth onstuff and I'm like, no, it needs
something else to be punchier.
Sometimes To clarify the point,right, and it's like, okay, we
need to do that because it kindof leaves a little bit too much
ambiguity to what you're tryingto communicate.
So you got to do clean, do thatwork, but yeah, you don't spend
(05:30):
six months on it and then do itwhile your marketing
department's trying to figureout like, what am I putting on
social media this month?
Speaker 2 (05:36):
you know well here's the thing in a lot of these
cases, whether it's working onyour financial information for
the company or where you'reactually working on a creative
project, it's like who are youtrying to satisfy?
Are you trying to satisfy theinner voices in your head?
Are you trying to satisfy theobjectives, the at the absolute
objectives of the process, theproject?
(05:58):
Yeah, if you check all theboxes, if you're achieving all
the top three things you need toachieve in that ad, that logo,
logo, that, whatever it is,you've done the job Right.
You've done the job.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Yeah.
So on the project manager side,I'll let you kind of take it,
Mikayla, if you would.
Even if you have to read itverbatim, I'll read it verbatim
From the agency side.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
We see clients delay campaigns over stuff that's
invisible to the customer.
Fonts, delay campaigns overstuff that's invisible to the
customer.
Fonts, color shades, one moreround of revisions.
Yeah, I could see that like.
But we also have some clientsthat are like, oh, it's good to
go and like you know, those areour bread and butter but like,
yeah, those are our favorites,yeah those are our, but that's
based on part of that.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
It's because they trust us right just like Jason,
trusting he'll hand a projectover to me, why he trusts me to
get it done.
He gives something to you,especially as project manager,
because he trusts you thatyou're going to take these
myriad of things that have toget done.
He knows you'll get it done.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, I mostly have a picture in my head of Michaela
with the switch and then she'srunning after you and everybody
and just beating you all.
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And I'm just kind of sitting back.
Going like this is kind offunny.
Speaker 3 (07:07):
Well you'll be happy to know that that doesn't happen
very often.
No, it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
No, I mean sometimes, because you know you got a lot
of things to do.
Something slips through thecracks once in a while right,
yeah, but I don't.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
I don't really lose sleep.
You know, mcgayla's like I'mgonna get this photo shoot
organized with mitch for theclient.
Okie dokie, I mean you're'reworking on something right now
with one of our contractors toget an email design for a client
and some ads and everythingelse synced up with Reba and I'm
like, okay, and I haven't beenkeeping track of that because
that is me getting into themicro or the minutia, that's it.
(07:37):
I get the hell out.
I'm done.
I did the thing.
This is what we need.
Bye-bye.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Procrastination and paralysis can happen a lot of
times just simply because youwon't let go of it and you don't
have enough trust in the peoplethat you're working with to get
it done.
You're holding it too close.
It's an attachment issue.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Right, yeah, it is, it is.
It's an internal thing thathappens with owners quite a lot,
and you'll cause your team toburn out, you'll cause budgets
to bloat and eventually themomentum you're trying to build
is gone and you will never getit back.
So if you're still personallychecking every email, editing
every social post, you're notleading, you're micromanaging.
(08:17):
So you need to trust your team.
You hired them for a reason.
You're in the weeds.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
You can't see the road ahead period, or if you're
a client.
I mean I understand howdifficult it must be, because I
one of the things I've alwaysunderstood very deeply is we're
like doctors and these peopleare trusting us with the health
of their company yeah, okay wehave a sacred trust.
Well, you chose us to do thework, so I want you to relax.
Let it go.
Trust us.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
We're going to get it done.
Yeah, the neurosurgeon doesn'ttake a break from doing brain
surgery.
Go around the table and thenwork on the heart or monitor the
you know, or any of the otherthings other people do in the
room.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
I feel like that also plays on fear too, like kind of
tying anxiety and fear, becauseit's kind of like you know, you
get burned by doctors too withmalpractice cases.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And in our industry there's alot of people that say a lot of
dumb crap and promise a lot ofstuff that cannot be promised
because there's no guarantees inmarketing.
Sorry, there's just not.
This is not a furniture store.
You're not going to go in andget a hundred.
You know, 90 day back guarantee.
Um, you know, if you don't likehow things are going in 90 days,
then sure you can go to anotheragency.
(09:29):
But here's the thing you know,when you do ads it's like a
birthday party.
I'm going to throw a birthdayparty and it's in August, and
you start talking to peopleabout it in June and then all of
a sudden you're like well, Iwant to change my birth date,
I'm going to move it to October.
Well, shit, everybody had ontheir calendar for August.
So now that audience is gone.
Now you got to rebuild theaudience for the new date, for
(09:52):
the new thing, for whatever itis.
But here's the thing it doesn'treally work that way.
They're gone, they're like youdon't know what the hell.
I got other things to do.
We're such a distraction-drivensociety the moment you don't
stay the course and staycommitted that 90 days is
necessary to build an audienceand then to retarget ads to
people that have already seenthe ad.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, momentum.
Everything you're doing iseverything you're creating,
every strategy you're developingis an effort to create momentum
.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Yeah, so you don't start on the tactical side and
go like I don't feel like it'sworking, I'm going to quit.
Well, yeah, there's also thatfear of missing out where it's
like well, if I stay with it,then maybe I'll just stay one
more time.
It's like also, too, I wouldbring to light you're not mining
for gold.
Just one more pickaxe swing inthe mine and I'm going to find
that nugget and we're going tobe rich.
(10:41):
It's not that either.
You know, maybe you're justdigging in the wrong spot, but
there's a lot of work that'sdone to figure out where to dig,
and that's the, that's thestrategy, that's what's
important.
And and I you know the mostsuccessful clients we got.
I mean they, they delegate anddecide.
They don't treat $10 tasks like10,000 decisions, you know, and
it's just $10,000 decisions,and so um, um, yeah, I mean
(11:04):
michaela is a project managerand details a lot.
I mean it's kind of your job.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
oh, yeah, I mean I, I feel like ever since, kind of
like, when you're mentioningbook reports earlier I'm like I
was very much task oriented butlike I had a lot of, especially
when we were moving, moving fromnew jersey to out here I had
some anxiety so like, but it waspersonal life, personal noise
that was going on, that I wouldmiss deadlines or forget a
textbook and do my homework andstuff like that.
But once, like you know, I'vebuilt a foundation, especially
(11:32):
like middle school.
That's where a foundation, aroutine, is really built.
Like you know, time management,you gotta go to the locker on
time.
You have no idea the stress ofjust like going to my locker,
remembering the combination,having the five minutes to get
there, like I I was in analysis,paralysis, wanted to be on time
, wanted to exceed a deadline,like the handbooks or agendas
(11:52):
that were always given at thebeginning of the year where you
record your assignments, thesatisfaction of just striking it
out like it's done I couldactually write the paper but the
fact that I scraped it off thelist, it's like closing tasks
for whenever we get stuff done.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
It's just the satisfaction.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
It's like heroin.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, it is.
It's funny you should mentionthat because I mean again
somebody who fought deadlinestheir entire school life.
I tend to try to work as muchas I can a little bit ahead For
one thing that helps you.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Jason.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
It helps you and it helps me, because you never know
when one of these projectswe're working on something's
going to happen and it's goingto have to jump ahead in a line
for some reason.
Well, I'm in good shape becauseI've gotten all these other
projects.
I've got everything set whereit needs to be.
I got this accomplished a dayearly, so it's not going to be
in the way.
It's because you have margins.
(12:45):
It's not going to be in the way.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, you're not working in the margins.
You have margin of error builtin, right, yeah, and I'll say
approve to send.
That's me telling you all.
I don't need to tell the clienthere's your things.
That level of accountmanagement is micromanagement,
so you guys can just send it tothem.
You can talk to them.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
They know who you are .
Places like loomly where youcan just have like the actual
yeah deliverable there and theycan just approve it, or you know
, or back to the drawing boardthat makes it so much easier.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, that's.
That's kind of a nice thingabout an organization.
Our size is.
Clients are generallycomfortable talking to any of us
.
Now we still have sort of apoint person.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
I'm the point person.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
Jason's the central point of contact for most of our
clients, but when it comes todeliverables, they're perfectly
comfortable hearing from any anyone of us.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Right, yeah, because you both have.
You're the project manager,you're the creative director,
you're not, you know, you're notthe secretary and you're not
the graphic designer.
And you may do a bit of thoseroles, because we're in a weird
era and decade of civilization.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
Well, we're a small organization, it's a very small
part, it's a team effort.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, I mean you're probably going to be faster than
me and Mitch at scheduling acalendar, and then you're done.
That's for faster at me than meand mitch at scheduling a
calendar, and then you're done,and then you're, you're off to
something else.
Yeah, it's because, don't askmitch to do that.
And for those that are like, ismitch coming to the meeting, we
yell at mitch once a month tosay would you please accept?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
every time, like you know I just, most of the time,
most of the time I just kind ofgo by.
Well, if you put me in ameeting and invite me, assume,
assume I'm going to be thereunless I speak and say, oh wait
a minute, I can't be therebecause it's so rare that.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
I can't be there.
You know, there's a button thatsays maybe a decline.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I always put tentative, like whenever I was
in Phoenix.
I'm like I may not because thetime difference, I'm like I'm
just going to put it astentative.
Yeah, from now.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
But see, right now it's like for the rest of us
what that does on the schedule,especially for you.
It's like kind of lets you know, like okay, this is the person
that's going to be there, so themeeting may only take 30
minutes, but if these otherpeople show up, then it's going
to be an hour because they'regoing to have a portion of it.
If they say maybe, then I don'tnecessarily need to consider
the whole hour is going to beused.
(14:58):
We could be out the door in 30,that's okay.
I love 30 minute meetings.
You know, we're getting therewith some of with some clients.
They're kind of on their backback foot, so we gotta get them
up there meetings are the baneof getting anything accomplished
yeah, I mean we've had productlaunches delay, you know getting
into like how small businessescan like get some wins here,
okay.
So we've had product launchesdelay over tiny packaging tweaks
.
Meanwhile the market moved on.
(15:19):
So revenue doesn't come frominternal debates, it comes from
shipped products, live campaignsand clear offers action yeah,
doing the thing rather thanpondering it, right so yeah, for
you uh I've seen entirequarters wasted trying to get
the website project perfect,perfect before starting ads.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
By the time it's done , budget budgets burn and
momentum's gone.
Yeah, I tested that.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
Yeah, I mean, it's like progress beats perfection
always.
It just is.
Sometimes you just got to getit done.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Well, and the truth of the matter is 99% of the time
the end audience has noawareness of any of the behind
the scenes stuff that goes on.
They just see the message and99.9% of the time it's going to
hit what it's where it'ssupposed to hit.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
Yeah, yeah, well, and you know, we procrastinate
dirty secret.
We procrastinate because we'reafraid, afraid to fail.
No, michaela, hit a nail ahead,fear, fear fear is the most
(16:51):
corrosive element in anydecision making, and it's just,
it's, it's uh, I'll take it fromhere.
Perfectionism is fear indisguise.
People want to feel ready, butbusiness doesn't wait for you,
for your comfort zone, to catchup.
It applies looking at somebodylike me, anyways, to make the
final call.
I'm not afraid of that becauseI'm not afraid to make mistakes.
I'm not afraid to put somethingout there and be like oopsies,
that was broke.
Let's put that back one away.
(17:11):
Let's roll that back.
Let's do that.
I I don't care, cause Iunderstand attention spans from
people.
I understand I focus more onpeople's behaviors than I do,
more than anything.
I focus more on people'sbehaviors than I do, more than
anything.
So if somebody doesn't likesomething we put out, okay,
that's your opinion.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
But that's all, it is Well that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
Go somewhere else and you get the same thing.
It's subjective.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Well, that's kind of the thing I mean and I've told
you this from the first day wedecided we were going to do this
thing and that is that you'vegot to keep a client's mind out
of the subjective.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
The opinion.
Things Keep everybody and thisis internally and externally you
keep everybody focused onobjective things, the things you
can check a box and say, yes,we accomplished this.
Yes, we accomplished this.
Yes, we accomplished this.
If you've done that, you'vedone the job.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Yeah, we had a client that wanted people to know
about meeting spaces in theirbuilding.
It took an entire year for themto just realize that that
business existed down the streetNow, nevermind the fact that
they had meeting spaces withinit.
So we were tasked for, hey, wewant more people having meetings
there.
Okay, well, we'll just shoveevery business organization
group we can and tell them aboutit and get them in there, even
(18:25):
if we use blackmail.
And it worked and now they havea steady flow.
Now is it a high dollar valuefor them in comparison to
company corporate events?
No, but it opened the door forthem to start coming in, because
they became aware, and beforeit was worse than that.
It was like oh, we didn't knowyou had meeting spaces.
No, they didn't know theyexisted, right.
(18:45):
So there is a whole year there.
So you have to start now,because if it's going to take a
year to do something, forsomething to catch on that no
one knows about, you cannot wait, just can't.
You're already behind and youknow, I've said before, if
you're on your back, back foot,it's very difficult for us to
help, it's very difficult for usto take on as a client because
(19:08):
it may be too late.
There's a few businesses rightnow I'm watching that are
closing shop.
They may not know it or fullyadmit it, but they're going to
this year and it's because theydelayed.
They did not invest inmarketing and advertising at all
.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Well, it's a lack of focus.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
Which again goes back to decision making, which goes
back to what Michaela said aboutfear.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah, yeah.
So, anyways, if you'restruggling with that, you're
like I don't know if it's fear,I don't know if it's maybe
because I just don't have theright team, I don't have the
right budget.
You can listen to this podcaston nerdbrandagentscom slash
podcast, and you know, like Isaid, decide fast, have the
right people in place, just act,just act.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
That's really it.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Just do.
It's like the Nike slogan Justdo it.
You know you gotta, you cannotsit and just think and think,
and think, and think and think.
That's not the market, it'smoving past you, literally.
So.
So, anyways, we hope you foundit useful.
We'll see you next week andremember, keep your nerd band
strong.
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