June 10, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode of The Moviegoers Society, we're diving into Ballerina, the latest chapter in the John Wick universe that pits Ana de Armas against Keanu Reeves in a fierce and emotional showdown.
With a revenge-fueled plot and ballet-infused brutality, Ballerina expands the Wick world in bold new ways. We break down Ana’s powerful lead performance, Keanu’s return, and how this stylish spinoff fits into the larger franchise.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Well, hello and welcome to the Moviegoer Society podcast
brought to you by Neutropolis. I'm your host, Sean Todgeborg,
the mayor of Neutropolis. And joining me once again is
Drumenhausen, the professional media and movie mastermind,
which I know I just went over with our intro.
Oh, yeah, I, I was, you know, what's funny is sometimes I
(00:34):
expect it. This time I was like, I doubt
that there's a specialized ballerina intro.
And then it started and I said, OK, Shine outdid himself today,
so props to you. Pat yourself in the back.
I'm a fan. Thank you.
You see, we're very on theme forthis episode.
We're talking ballerina, of course.
(00:58):
Now are we just calling it ballerina or do we need to refer
to it every time as from the world of John Wick, ballerina?
That's an interesting thing. You know, I, there's a lot of
people saying that you have to say from the world of John Wick,
which, yeah, you can do that. I'm just going to call it
ballerina. If I if I get the 4K Blu-ray in
(01:19):
a few months when it comes out, am I putting this in my
alphabetized collection under F or under B?
Or do I put it under J with JohnWick one through 4 and then have
it at the end of that What what are?
Well, not the end of well, you put it in the John Wick section,
but you put it between 3:00 and 4:00.
(01:40):
Oh boy, OK. Yeah.
So yeah, we're definitely going to dive into from the world of
John Wick ballerina. But Drew, I mean, I just feel
like there's a lot we've not talked on a lot.
I have. First of all, I have a lot of
interviews that I've been posting like crazy amount.
I spoke to Kevin Smith, I talkedto Jason Muse, we talked Dogma,
(02:05):
which is such a underrated film.Check those out there on their
trop list. Also, I saw how to train your
dragon. That was epic.
That review is up. Mason themes.
My buddy killed it as hiccup. We just it's got a lot of stuff
happening soon, but also I have ballerina interviews, awesome
(02:26):
stuff, Norman Reedus, Len Wiseman, and of course I'm going
to butcher the last name, but weall know him from umbrella
Academy and it is David Casananda.
I'm I'm drawing tongue twister Castaneda.
Maybe I need to see it to say it, because where that till day
(02:48):
is on that end, it's really throwing me off.
Casta. I can't even say it.
I'm I'm going to butcher it. Casta Castaneda.
Oh my God, this is horrible, guys.
I'm putting myself on the spot because I'm telling you how
difficult it was before to say it.
(03:08):
Tongue twister. But we all know him as Diego
from Umbrella Academy. So I have that dropping
tomorrow. I mean, I have a lot of stuff I
came and think about. I talked to a bunch of people
lately and I have a lot of reviews.
But Drew, you also have some stuff coming up.
You have a review dropping tomorrow I believe as well, or
even tonight. I do as kind of our resident, a
(03:28):
24 guy for for nurtropolis. I did go see materialists, which
is the newest ROM com from director Celine Song.
I don't know, Sean, if you caught Past Lives back in 2023,
I really, really enjoyed that movie.
And that was her directorial debut, Celine Song.
(03:50):
And so this is her follow up andthere's a review coming.
I'm working on it, you know, hopefully it'll be out soon.
The movie comes out in wide release this weekend.
But I can say I really enjoyed this one too.
It's not quite the emotional roller coaster gut punch that I
think that Past Lives was. Past Lives had maybe a little
(04:12):
bit more realism, but this movieis the stars Dakota Johnson,
Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans. It's so much more than just a
traditional ROM com that I feel like it's kind of billed as it's
like a love triangle with these three movie stars.
Like it is that, but it does have that Celine song kind of
(04:32):
realism. You get the romance, you get the
you know, that that part of it, but you also get like the
horrors of dating and then the the downs of dating and you get
you get true emotion and and feelings throughout it while
also being, you know, a fun movie for a lot of it.
So I I have a lot of good thingsto say about this and we'll have
(04:55):
a review up soon. Starring of three Marvel actors.
Yeah, we got Madam Webb and Mr. Fantastic and Captain America.
Flash the Human Torch, Flash theHuman Torch.
We got a lot of movies we talkedabout all summer long and I
think we're just going to take him like one film on a time.
The last episode was so jam packed.
I think we're start highlightingthem individually.
(05:18):
I'm excited to talk Ballerina, but I'm also excited to talk How
to Train Your Dragon when we do get that chance because Emmanuel
also saw saw an IMAX. He said it was amazing.
So I'm excited about all the films coming up.
I did grab tickets to that Amazon Prime Superman screening
happening July 8th before it comes out July 11th, which is my
(05:39):
birthday. So I probably might go see it
again on that day. But Drew, are you planning on
what are you planning on seeing that movie like day of You're
going to wait it out. I wanted to watch it as early as
possible and there might be another opportunity to watch it
before the 8th. I don't know.
But I'm taking the whole family a birthday present to myself to
catch Superman in IMAX. Are all the screenings on the
(06:01):
8th sold out already? No.
So check today, maybe just whileyou're talking to us right now.
I might actually try and do thattoo.
And then hopefully we can see itearly and, and do an earlier
episode before it releases. So 'cause I really am looking
forward to it. I, I, I think that Superman
(06:22):
looks really good. I have a lot of curiosity around
it, just with the James Gunn of it all and what he's going to do
and this kind of kick off of this new DCU, yeah.
Superman. I mean, it's just Superman.
I'll I'll watch it. I mean, I'm.
Gonna watch and I've been re watching the old ones.
I've I'm about to I just watchedthe first three Superman movies
(06:45):
with Christopher Reeve. So I I need to watch Superman 4
which I've actually never seen, although I hear that one is is
not good. But is that the one?
Is that the one with the comedian?
Oh man. It's got Jon Cryer as Lex
Luthor's son if I remember correctly.
Oh, really? Richard Pryor was in Superman 3.
(07:05):
Three. He's in Three.
That's the one. OK, John.
Yeah. I did watch that.
One John Carr ends up being Lex Luthor.
That's right, they brought him back in.
Was that in The CW shows? He.
Played The CW, I don't recall all that stuff so far in the
past even though it was like 2 years ago.
Yeah, so I've, I've been doing my Superman re watches before
leading up to this. So I just need to watch for and
(07:27):
I do plan to re watch Superman Returns, which I probably
haven't seen since 2006 or 7, you know, around that time.
And then I'll I'll watch Man of Steel.
CW Supergirl. That's that's right, That's
right. That was from CW times.
Feels like it was forever ago, but I think it was not that long
ago. But yeah, so much going on.
(07:49):
So we're going to take these episodes probably film at a time
just so we can highlight them individually because there's a
lot of great stuff coming out. Today's episode is it's kind of
a big one for me. It's not just another movie
discussion, it's about a universe I'm really big fan of,
a supporter of. I love supporting the world of
John Wick. Ballerina was an entry I was
(08:09):
super excited about for many reasons, but also seeing how
this world was going to expand. We got the Continental, that was
OK, but not really what we wanted.
And then we had obviously 4 cameout and now they're making a
chapter 5 somehow. But also we got talks about an
anime series, which I'm super excited about because I actually
know the the man behind running that series and, and I think
(08:33):
it's a series of it's an animated project.
So I don't know if it's a show or movie, but I'm super excited
for that as well. But expanding it with a female
lead and leaning into that worldof the ballerina world that we
got introduced to in the previous films was super
exciting. I love the elegance, the chaos,
the mythology, all in this world.
The Continental is like one of the coolest things to me.
(08:53):
We're also getting one of that the cane spin off too.
So we're getting a lot, a lot ofworld building happening in this
franchise. Drew and this is on a level I
didn't see coming since like 2 and 3 came out.
I was like, these are just goingto be standalone, kind of the
standalone franchise and how is it going to expand?
And then we saw it before. It's like they're building a
lot. They keep world building in
(09:13):
every film which is awesome. Well, it's only.
Grown more layered and stylized with every every film.
Yeah, I can still remember it vividly because, you know, I'm
sure everybody remembers this is, you know, this isn't
anything new. But to say when the original
John Wick came out, people were just so amused at like, oh, it's
this guy and they killed his dogand then he kills everyone.
(09:35):
And it's like a pretty simple premise.
But still within that movie, they do set up the Continental
and and a little bit of the world of assassins, but kind
kind of keeps it all like at a distance.
It's there, but it's not. They don't fully dive into it
until I feel like John Wick chapter 2 is where it really
gets into like the lore of this world of assassins and and more
(09:58):
into the continental and and therules and and so on and so
forth. And it is pretty crazy how this
movie, it was essentially a pretty small Lionsgate movie
back in 2014 when it came out. I mean it was a 20 to 30.
Million struggle to get the money.
First of all, I highly recommendeveryone watch Wicca's paint.
Fantastic documentary talks about how Eva Longoria, the
(10:22):
Desperate Housewife was the one that fronted the money to save
production of the first film. They were struggling to finance
it and look where we are now. Yeah, I don't think there's any
way they knew it that time. I'm sure they had hopes for it,
but there no one knew it was going to be a franchise that 10
years later is is five films andATV series deep with three
(10:47):
potential additional projects onthe way.
Film projects. I mean, it was an indie film
pretty much is what what it was so.
So when they announced Ballerina, a spin off in the
same universe, I was really cautiously just excited.
But you know, spin offs can be hit or miss.
With the right care, you can expand ways and possible ways
(11:08):
before we like, truly dive in. I know you're a fan of this
world, but where does the John Wick series sit for you in terms
of modern action? I would, I would say I regard
them really well. I think that one and four in
particularly I think are really good.
(11:29):
I, I think, I think 2 is probably the worst of them and I
really like 2, so I'll put it that way.
It's that kind of franchise where even though if you try to
rank them and even the one that you like the least is still
really good. Right.
And what I really loved about this world is the side
characters. At the same time, you know,
(11:50):
outside of Keanu, there's a lot of you going to find a character
you also like outside of of Keanu Reeves.
I really thought ballerina delivered on what it what we
expected. I really thought Anna de Armas
was fantastic pick because when do we see her really kick butt?
It was in that James double O 7 with No Time to Die.
We saw that scene and we're like, give her something to do
(12:13):
where she kicks butt and here weare.
We tried to do that in in the Netflix movie The Grey Man,
where she starred alongside RyanGosling, but that is a movie
that nobody remembers despite being directed by the Russos.
And it's not good. And there's a lot of action and
she does actually things in it, but it's been a wipe from
everybody's memory. But but Ana Darmus is an action
(12:38):
star. Yeah, it is.
And I feel like she's kind of late.
I mean, she's not as young as you would think, but her career
started a little later. But she started like being in
almost everything and kind of just accelerated her career.
And this is where we are now, giving her a John's John Wick
spin off, a ballerina. She completely owns this movie.
She's physical, emotional. I really love the way she fights
(13:03):
in this. Like, her whole back story is
really interesting. What did you think about the
back story of Eve? Obviously they show a young Eve
in this house with her dad as this whole group comes in and
tries to take her away. I, I thought it was OK.
I think the, the intro and maybethe first like 30 minutes of the
(13:24):
film, I, I struggled with it a little bit until it started to,
to pick up steam for me later on.
It. There is a lot of back story in
introducing her and and how she came to like this dance school
that if you want, you know, dance dance school.
There were there were some good,good action scenes in it, but I
(13:46):
was I I feel like I was kind of waiting for the movie to really
pick up during some of these parts.
I mean. I was surprised at The Who her
dad was Speaking of and I say that in my interview that I had
no clue that we we're going to have him as Eve's dad.
I don't know why I'm drawing a blank but I just said his name
is it's cost. I could not that that name is
(14:08):
going to bother me forever, but David I got to speak to and I
told him that I actually did, you know, he was in this movie
because I didn't know. I did not.
And I told him that I felt like I was Leonardo Dicaprio's
pointing at the screen be like, I did not know Diego's in here
from Umbrella Academy. And he was really good in this
role. And it was very surprising.
(14:28):
And I was talking to him as like, you could definitely have
your own kind of spin off as well because your character has
a very interesting back story that does get highlighted in
ballerina, but we don't get too much of it.
And he was just talking about how his fighting style was.
They talk about the fighting style for his character and was
kind of to disarm and not hurt or kill.
So it's very interesting at how they take people's fighting
(14:50):
styles into play when they're crafting these films.
Just like Anna de Armas, her fighting style was sloppy
because she's so new to this in the assassin world too.
And so that's what she was saying.
So hopefully when we do get a ballerina to like, she's more
tight in her fights, but she said it was sloppy on purpose
and stunts and fighting choreography is it plays a big
(15:11):
deal in this franchise, which I really, really love.
Were you surprised about Honor to Armis and some of her moves
and some of the action shots? I liked that part of it, what
you're talking about the like the kind of learning curve of it
because I think it's a good contrast to the other John Wick
movies were like in John Wick, once the the events of the first
film are set up, it's like John Wick doesn't have to be trained
(15:33):
and learn how to fight. He already knows how to fight
and you know, he but you know, we we hit the ground running
there and here we're actually seeing the back story and the
training and what goes into it. And I think I did enjoy the
sense of confidence that she gained through the through the
film, that that is a true arc that you see and it's it's
believable with the pacing of the movie.
(15:55):
Yeah, it was a little bit of a slow, sorry.
We'll agree with you on there because we do see her childhood
and kind of how she gets in thislittle ballerina, you know,
club, I guess I would call it. And then how she runs into John
Wick, which is very interesting because this movie takes place,
I guess during three technically, not between 3:00
(16:16):
and 4:00. It's like a midway point in
three. I just couldn't figure out
exactly which scene it was because they did reshuffle a
scene from three into this and kind of reshot it in a certain
way to connect it. But let's talk about the action,
because there's one scene that'sthat's in my head right now.
Ice skates as weapons. Did you see that coming at all?
(16:40):
That was good. And I feel like that's that's in
the kind of last latter part, right?
Like that's in the the kind of final.
Town. Oh, we got a lot of things.
We get we get a flamethrower. Yeah, we get a lot of
flamethrower. We get a lot of weapons, a lot
of fighting, a lot of dead bodies.
Compared to the other films, I think the count might be higher
(17:01):
or just as high as the last filmthat wasn't.
I wasn't counting though. I'm looking, I just saw in the
comments we've got, Emmanuel said the movie felt like
expanded DLC video game content in a good way.
I do kind of agree with that. It's.
Like a side quest with a new character.
And it totally works because we're all still invested in John
(17:24):
Wick himself. So it's very hard to see how
much we can show love to a new character.
But with Ana de Armas leading the way, it works.
We'll see what happens with the The Cane spinoff.
I do think that this movie, I understand from a marketing
perspective why they have to, you know, promote it the way
(17:46):
they are like with the whole from the world of John Wick
showing Keanu in the trailers, all that I I get it.
I do think that if you took Keanu out of this movie entirely
and you took out the From the World of John Wick take.
Keanu out of this? Movie, I'm not, I'm not saying,
I'm just saying that if you did,I think the movie still stands
(18:08):
on its own pretty well. It's not like amazing
necessarily, but like you could take Keanu out and the movie's
fine. I understand that from a movie
studio perspective and you wanting this movie to make money
on par with what the other John Wick movies especially for have
made in the past. Like this is a franchise and you
(18:29):
wanted to make franchise money, but the movie there's there's
like a lot of rumors and things about like the reshoots that had
to happen with Chad Sulheski kind of coming back to oversee
some things and and did they addmore Keanu into the movie or not
because they were worried about it so on so.
Forth. Well, this is what I know.
I will share what I know. OK First off, Ballerina was
(18:51):
written by Shay Hayden. Shay Hayden wrote three and
four. I believe Co wrote those.
I think he's this young kid, he created Ballerina as like a
original story, nothing to do with John Wick, but he's working
with Lionsgate or whatever team he's working with.
And they saw it and they said this is something we can
incorporate into John Wick. Let's do it.
So that makes sense. Yes, so that's what happened
(19:14):
with this whole Ballerina world,similar to the Continental.
That was like an afterthought that I could expand on the
Continental that there was one on every.
You know, as this franchise expands, they're just grabbing
ideas. They have great writers, great
teams and Ballerina was just a script that was sitting there
and they decide to swallowed it into the world of John Wick,
which works maybe added certain things to it.
(19:34):
Len Len was there so and Chad was there too, doing all these
shoots, right. So they just want to maybe just
elevate it because Len is a fantastic director.
Len Wiseman came from the world of Underworld, you know,
Underworld and Live Free and DieHard.
You know, he is awesome. He loves this world, big fan of
it. But you have Chad and Chad comes
(19:56):
from the stunt world. So like that's probably some of
the reshoots that happened is just to optimize the stunts and
the action sequences because that is a whole different grit
and vibe that not everyone can capture because we don't see it
in other films. No one can replicate what Chad
created. And if you watch Wicked.
You can see it's almost a trademark pretty much of what
(20:16):
this is in the world of John Wick, and that's probably some
of the reshoots and just some ofthe add-ons just to elevate the
film. And, and I know that's what
they're saying and everything. I've just seen some things in
like the the journalism behind it, like behind the scenes stuff
that that part of the initiativethere was to get more Keanu into
the movie. And I don't know if that's, you
(20:37):
know, with some of the action scenes that they were adding to
it. And I don't know if that's, I
don't think they've confirmed that or not, but still, it's
like, I don't even think you needed to do that.
Maybe they're adding other action scenes in general.
But there's I do think that there's some really solid action
in this movie, but I don't thinkany of the action in this movie
(20:59):
overtakes any of the big set pieces from the actual WIC
movies. Like it seems like the best
action set pieces are still reserved for that, although
there were some in this movie that I really enjoyed.
You mentioned the ice. Ice skates, the plates that the
whole town, that snowy town towards and as you see here, the
snowy town stuff was it was amazing, I thought.
(21:20):
That is when I felt like the movie really started to cook for
me. I was enjoying it.
I feel like it kind of picked upwhen you get to the Continental.
There's a big scene at the Continental where we meet Norman
Reedus's character. But then from there, when they
go to this Austrian town, I thought everything there was
really great. And there are some really cool.
Like there's another part in an action scene that stuck out to
(21:41):
me where she's like, I don't remember if it's a grenade or it
throws A grenade but then hides like gets behind.
No, no, no, she throws it behind.
Like there's a bad guy behind the big metal door and she.
Oh, it's like in the Arsenal where she goes to get some
weapons, she gets the weapon andthen she.
She holds up against the metal door, like where the door
basically creates a triangle between the walls and the door.
(22:02):
And I thought that was really clever.
Like, things like that stuck outto me as like, oh, that's really
neat. And that's, that's what you want
from these movies, right? You want those moments where you
say, man, that was cool. I've never seen that before.
Well, and Speaking of Norman, I thought he was a great addition,
definitely underutilized. I will say that, but it was
great to have him this and that means, you know, he can be part
of this world even further. He comes from a world that he
(22:24):
knows how to handle action love the boondocks saying spin.
That's that's a hoping a third one comes out.
But that's kind of where he got his start.
But like to see him in this franchise is fantastic,
especially with The Walking Deadsuccess.
And speaking to him, he said that Anna really took this
fiercely and seriously. And then when he was shooting
(22:46):
that senior talk about the Continental where all
everything's exploding, all the charges were kind of set up and
he had to watch where his head was going cuz things were just
exploding left and right. So some really great insights
for my conversation with Norman on that.
Definitely think he can come back in some force.
I thought it was a great addition.
His character is pretty interesting as well because he's
not really a bad guy per SE, butprobably has a darker past that
(23:09):
we don't know about. Speaking of the Continental, I
love the fact that we got to seethe late Lance Reddick to come
back as Sharon. I think it's wild when they shot
this because they shot this a while ago.
I don't exactly know when they did, but the fact that Lance was
able to be a part of this feels like they were able to shoot
(23:33):
this really early on as 4 was before 4 came out.
It looks like they shot it from November 2022.
Let's see throughout the month in in December.
Let's see yes so they I mean they shot it before 4 came out
which. Is and actually.
Quickly they they were getting putting this together.
(23:54):
They knew they wanted to do this.
Yeah, they were filming it in late 2022 basically, probably
into 2023. And Lance Reddick unfortunately
passed away in March of 2023. So is is this confirmed to be
his last on screen appearance? I don't know, a lot of things
been popping up of other stuff that, you know, voice over and
(24:14):
other things. I mean, there's possibilities of
maybe more. I always bring this up.
I love his Lex Luthor and Kite Man.
I mean, that was a joy to see aswell.
But it just goes to show how busy he was, you know, and how,
how many because it's, it's kindof incredible at how many on
(24:36):
screen appearances we've gotten from him.
You know, John Wick chapter 4 when it was released, you know,
like was right around the same time that he passed away and
everything that's I feel like I've seen him on screen a lot in
the past two years. And every time it happens, it
just reminds you and it's so, it's so sad.
But it's a busy. Man to see, to see him in this.
(24:59):
Yeah, I was a busy man and I I spoke to Len about this, about,
you know, his memories of, you know, anytime I can talk to
someone that worked with Lance, I will bring it up because he
was such a great my first in person interview and the 15
minutes I had with them just changed my whole life.
And we got to nerd out office together.
So I will always bring up that opportunity.
I was I will always bring up anychance I get to shine a light on
(25:21):
Lance. Reddick just shared a real on my
Instagram, the neuropolis Instagram as well when talking
about Lance and just it was a class act pretty much.
And that's what Sharon and he said, you know, Lance and Sharon
are pretty much the same person.And, and hearing Lance talk
about how he came up with the back story for Sharon himself
and kind of pitched it and they accepted.
(25:42):
It's pretty awesome too. Like he created this character
pretty much he worked with what they gave him on paper, but kind
of created this this character that everyone loved.
Ian McShane is back as well but seeing the part of the
continental was awesome but I wish we got more Continental.
Emmanuel told me this before that felt some of the Lance
Reddick scenes felt off like they added Annulator in post but
(26:04):
I I don't believe that at at allespecially how early they they
film this as well. Maybe some of the stuff with
Keanu was added later because Keanu is also very busy and also
like likes to take some time offbecause he was also, I don't
know, when he was touring with Dog Star with his band and he
was doing some other projects aswell.
(26:25):
So. But other than that, I felt like
the new cast was awesome. What do you think about the
supporting cast? Who stood out to you from the
new or from all your faces? Let me see.
Angelica Houston was awesome coming back.
I really like that. She's great.
(26:46):
Gabriel Byrne, who played the antagonist, the the Chancellor,
I thought was menacing and, you know, was a good villain.
Of course, Norman Reedus is always just a presence when he
shows up. But I agree with you.
I'm like a little underutilized.Could have used a lot more of
him. But that does feel like it's a
lot of set up. But I don't think we've seen the
(27:07):
last of his character in this universe.
Yeah, I think those are. And then of course, like Ian
McShane, you can't have a Wick movie without Ian McShane as
well. I, I love also just like Lances
Sharon, how important Ian McShane is in this franchise as
Winston. You know, really the biggest
(27:29):
connector outside of Keanu is John Wick to this world.
And like you said, if we you could have done without Keanu.
But I think we couldn't have done it, I don't think, without
Winston. Well, and to be clear, I'm not
saying I could have done withoutKeanu.
That's not what I'm saying. I mean, the movie was fine
without Keanu. Adding Keanu is just an extra,
you know, cherry on top the the movie could have could do on its
(27:50):
own without it, but I don't think it could have done it
without Winston is what I'm saying.
I think Winston is this connecting piece to this world,
especially when you got the Continentals going and
everything else that Winston is been around a long time.
For sure, if you don't have Winston or Sharon, it's then you
take off that from the world of John Wick because then it really
doesn't exist in this world. I feel like you have to have
(28:13):
them with the continental name for it to exist in the world of
John Wick. Right.
And the fact that we know Keanu's in here and we saw him,
I didn't think we're going to get as much as we did.
I was actually very surprised how much Keanu is in this film.
We could say like he's some people might say he's not in it
enough. I was actually surprised we got
this much. I I didn't think it was going to
(28:33):
be this kind of one-on-one battle for a little bit.
I didn't think he was going to be that intricate early on too,
with that little passing betweenthe two of them.
I just thought it was going to be a cameo.
But it's not a cameo, guys, I'lltell this.
You cannot label this as a cameo.
This is definitely he's in the film.
He's part of the the movie, partof the story and part of
(28:53):
definitely the climax of the film.
I will say that if. If there was any more of him
though, it would have been too much and I feel like you'd be
taking away from Ana de Armas inthe movie.
It it's they they do it well. Yeah, they do.
And I mean, just looking like I I just love this.
This is my favorite shots from the film.
You know, this is the fierce of Ana de Armas.
I really is a star, an action star.
(29:16):
She worked so hard for this film, which is really fun.
We don't get many rated R actionfilms, you know, they're very
rare and then when they come in the summertime, there's the best
time to watch them and a great way to expand the world of John
Wick. For me, Ballerina is just not a
great spin off. I think it's a really beautiful
extension of the world. The right way to do it without
(29:37):
seeing seeming like a cash grab.Because like I said, this story
came before it getting connectedto John Wick, so it was already
a standalone film. They decided it fit perfectly in
this chaotic world they're building.
And I just love Anna's performance and I love the
stylized action with Len at the helm and then Chad being part of
like get making sure all the stunts are like John Wick esque.
(29:59):
And that grit is there. And I think that's what's so
awesome about this is the the grit of the film because it's
there. You know, just to re emphasize,
and I don't say this as a knock against the movie because I
genuinely don't mean it as such,but what you're saying about it
was written as its own thing. And then they said, hey,
actually we can incorporate thisinto the WIC world.
That makes sense from what I sawon screen.
(30:19):
Because like you can see there'sthere's a movie here that
doesn't have any of the continental and WIC stuff in it.
That makes sense. And it's, you know, has its own
well developed characters and world and everything.
But I do think it was, you know,an overall smart move to to, you
know, add it in there. It fits.
You have the ballerina stuff, the dance school set up in John.
(30:42):
I think back in John Wick Chapter 3 you fit this right in.
Well, that's where I originally came from, I believe.
I think that's where they grabbed the ballerina and put it
in three. They had this already, I believe
so in three so that if a few years, well that makes sense.
You can Fact Check me on this, but I believe that's where the
idea came from. They put it in three and then
(31:03):
decide to put put the put the this new film.
That makes sense. When did 3 come out 2019?
Man time fly. Yeah, 2019, Sean, When I saw
John Wick Chapter 3, Parabellum,the full title, I saw that it
was before I had kids so I coulddo this kind of thing.
(31:26):
Alamo Drafthouse had a, you know, three.
They showed John Wick 1, John Wick Chapter 2, and leading to
the premiere of John Wick Chapter 3 on a Thursday night.
So I watched 1-2 and then the premiere of three, all
back-to-back to back. It was so many bullets.
It was so much action. I love movies and like this
(31:49):
franchise, but watching 3 John Wick movies back-to-back to back
is a lot. It could be exhausting.
I can see that like I I can definitely see that.
Emmanuel says what if ballerina helped fake John Wick's death to
set up John Wick 5 just by personal fan fiction.
That's pretty interesting. I'm pretty sure Jay Hayden's
around Jay Hayden is working with Chad to put together a
(32:10):
story. I'm pretty sure because he
helped Co wrote three and four. I remember speaking to him and
the other writer, which I have all those interviews on our
YouTube channel in their tropolis.
But they're they're at it. You know, they're working on
something that's going to make sense.
And I don't think anyone believeJohn Wick was dead.
I think John Wick the assassin was dead, not John Wick the man.
(32:32):
I don't know, something that's what I'm thinking about.
So I think that was just his wayto kind of lay low.
Has there been any? I know they've announced John
Wick chapter 5, but is there anyreal movement there?
Like is it had they you know, dothey even have a script?
They got a story coming. I mean, they got they got some
type of story. And then there's a new animated
(32:53):
prequel to the John Wick franchise that's coming, which
I'm super excited about. And Keanu Reeves will voice John
Wick in that. So it's he's connected.
He's not leaving this franchise at all.
So that's super exciting. And that's going to be directed
by shit Nintendo who did Ultraman Rising so.
It is a. It is anime film.
(33:13):
It's a film, it's not a show. So now I have confirmed that.
So that's going to be exciting to see.
I mean, they're expanding this world as much as possible.
And I know Emmanuel said at somepoint he said avoid the he said
avoid the continental TV series.It is horrible.
Yeah. It's not the best just because
they kind of, it was a separate project away from Lionsgate and
(33:36):
from Chad. It was like a it was just like
an independent project away fromthe creators and the people that
really know the world of John Wick and they kind of added some
things that maybe didn't work and they didn't want to
establish for some of the characters.
That's where I'm at that. But I mean, it's an interesting
concept to go that far back for the Continental.
But other than the John Wick anime film prequel, I kind of
(34:00):
want to see everything moving forward.
Ballerina needs to move forward.I don't want to see anything in
between. The Kane film hopefully takes
place after four, just like the kind of end credits scene.
It just follows up on that. I don't want to go backwards in
anything. I just want to move forward.
Kind of tired of these in between stories and prequels.
I just want to see things move more.
(34:20):
You got to, you got to slot things in.
Although I will say this is better done in that regard.
Weirdly enough. Then like Black Widow, it was
where like the character had already died and you're like,
why do I care about this thing that happened in the lead up to
Civil War or whatever? Because they have the Red
Guardian. That's why that movie worked so
well for me. Black Widow because of the Red
(34:41):
Guardian, honestly. But that's like slotting it in a
little too, you know, almost toolittle, too late.
Although I actually like Black Widow.
I defend that movie a little bit, but this one, I guess maybe
because it's focused on a different character, the
slotting in between other entries in the franchise works a
little bit better for me. I am curious, Sean, where do you
(35:04):
like, I'm not saying you have todo an official ranking of all
the John Wick movies right now, but where would Ballerina fall
on your rankings of the main entries of the franchise?
It's hard because it's not a John Wick filmed in my eyes like
it's and it's adjacent, right. So like it's really hard to put
it against a John Wick actual film, right.
But I would do like the first John Wick and then four and
(35:27):
three, put that and then put ballerina in there and then end
with two. OK, that's fair.
I would say. Yeah, I kind of agree with you.
Like my instinct was ballerinas probably at the bottom of my
rankings. But again, like I liked this
movie. So that's, you know, it's,
that's not damning this movie, but it's.
Hard to do it. Yeah.
It's hard to place it in a placeagainst all the amazing John
(35:49):
Wick films. It doesn't.
It's kind of the surface to the film because it's on a kicking
butt on her own with no help. Like, that's what's awesome
about this. It's to me, the cast in this
film was felt very small, despite you having a lot of
people in this film that's great.
Very focused on Anna and everything else.
It's solely on her and then everyone around her and how
(36:09):
she's navigating this life and her revenge story and everything
else. It is kind of amazing how they
can do that with, with the exception of it, I'd say John
Wick Chapter 4 and to an extent 3.
It is kind of interesting how they're able to really self
contain these movies and even asthe budgets get a little bit
higher because this is a successful franchise, doesn't
(36:29):
feel like this huge movie. 4 probably did a bit more.
I mean 4 was almost 3 hours longand had some just set piece
after set piece after set piece after set piece.
Chapter 4 had what I wanted, Mission Impossible, The Final
Reckoning to have it. Just like I just needed more set
pieces for that movie to be the final entry.
(36:50):
John Wick Chapter 4 delivered onthat front.
It was almost too much. I'm like, OK, we're three hours
of action. Like, give me a break.
The roundabout scene. John Wick.
Four with a Carl like, let's keep going.
Five more times around, let's keep going.
I just think of that classic like the kind.
Of top down almost video game seeming scene and how cool that
what like that stuff. That's why I highly recommend.
Wick is pain the documentary. I think you can rent it online
(37:12):
like on Amazon and other places you can get rentals cause that's
the only way right now. You can watch it until someone
picks it up for streaming. But Wick is paint is a fantastic
documentary because I don't knowwhy they thought to have the
cameras rolling before they start filming the first film
like there were there's so much behind the scenes stuff from the
first film prior to them even starting the filming on that is
(37:33):
amazing. Just like coming it up, coming
up with it, scouting, just creating the companies, just a
lot of stuff. It's wild how far this franchise
has come, which was just an independent film.
Drew, what is your rating star rating for this film?
Out of five stars, I'm probably.Like about a 3 1/2, that's good.
(37:57):
That's pretty good. That's.
That's a, that's a solid rating from Drew.
And so I sit at a four out of five stars for Ballerina.
I'm sorry, from the world of John Wick Ballerina as Drew
likes it. That's what I'm saying.
It's like I probably. Have 1/4 and three, all this
like 4 out of five stars. Yeah, one might even be a four
(38:17):
and a half. I guess.
I love that movie. 2 I have a step down is like a 3 1/2.
So Ballerina is kind of right there is like a three or a 3
1/2. It's really good and I think
some people. Don't understand how actually
great entertainment it is. So hopefully you know, if you
haven't seen it yet, grab your tickets.
It's a really a wild ride. It's really a great adults night
out. Don't take the kids to this one,
(38:38):
but especially if you go with the universe from the start,
like I have like it's it's really awesome film, a great
addition, as Emmanuel says me say right here, the flamethrower
gunfight is worth the movie ticket price itself.
I mean, that's, that's fair and,and I will.
Say, kind of like going back to to my take on it is that if you
were like me and maybe the beginning, the like the
(39:01):
introductory scenes aren't grabbing you as much.
And, you know, stick with it because I do think that once
this a large portion of this movie takes place in that
Austrian town we referred to. And to me, the movie is cooking
with gas at that point. It's like, you know, I think it
is worth the price of admission just for getting to that scene
(39:24):
and how it doesn't let off the brakes.
And I just love the idea of thisisolated, wintry Austrian town
that seems like this just kind of small town.
And then there's a lot more going on there than you realize
with the rest of everyone's a assassin in this town.
Pretty. Much kids, kids and adults.
It's a it's a vicious little small town.
(39:44):
I will say that I love that. I love that as soon as that.
You know, this outsider comes inand it's all quiet until things
go haywire and everybody's afterthis this girl and the blades,
the blade scene with all the. Plates that's I love that yeah.
Everything in that like Austrian.
Restaurant was so good. Yeah, it was great.
Yeah, it is fantastic. So.
(40:04):
That wraps it up for another episode of the moviegoers
society. Make sure to follow and
subscribe for all our you know, episodes every week, my
interviews, our reviews on our tropics.com.
Our socials are dropping all thereels and all this news on
there. We got so much coming your way.
Maybe some hot takes coming soon.
But thanks for hanging us tonight live.
If you're watching this live, appreciate y'all joining us or
(40:27):
on replay. But until next time, I am Sean
Tosh with the mayor of Nurtropolis, and I am Drew
Munhausen. The.
Professional media and movie mastermind and we'll.
See you at the movies. Thank you all.
Well, hello and welcome to the Moviegoer Society podcast
brought to you by Neutropolis. I'm your host, Sean Todgeborg,
the mayor of Neutropolis. And joining me once again is
Drumenhausen, the professional media and movie mastermind,
which I know I just went over with our intro.
Oh, yeah, I, I was, you know, what's funny is sometimes I
(00:34):
expect it. This time I was like, I doubt
that there's a specialized ballerina intro.
And then it started and I said, OK, Shine outdid himself today,
so props to you. Pat yourself in the back.
I'm a fan. Thank you.
You see, we're very on theme forthis episode.
We're talking ballerina, of course.
(00:58):
Now are we just calling it ballerina or do we need to refer
to it every time as from the world of John Wick, ballerina?
That's an interesting thing. You know, I, there's a lot of
people saying that you have to say from the world of John Wick,
which, yeah, you can do that. I'm just going to call it
ballerina. If I if I get the 4K Blu-ray in
(01:19):
a few months when it comes out, am I putting this in my
alphabetized collection under F or under B?
Or do I put it under J with JohnWick one through 4 and then have
it at the end of that What what are?
Well, not the end of well, you put it in the John Wick section,
but you put it between 3:00 and 4:00.
(01:40):
Oh boy, OK. Yeah.
So yeah, we're definitely going to dive into from the world of
John Wick ballerina. But Drew, I mean, I just feel
like there's a lot we've not talked on a lot.
I have. First of all, I have a lot of
interviews that I've been posting like crazy amount.
I spoke to Kevin Smith, I talkedto Jason Muse, we talked Dogma,
(02:05):
which is such a underrated film.Check those out there on their
trop list. Also, I saw how to train your
dragon. That was epic.
That review is up. Mason themes.
My buddy killed it as hiccup. We just it's got a lot of stuff
happening soon, but also I have ballerina interviews, awesome
(02:26):
stuff, Norman Reedus, Len Wiseman, and of course I'm going
to butcher the last name, but weall know him from umbrella
Academy and it is David Casananda.
I'm I'm drawing tongue twister Castaneda.
Maybe I need to see it to say it, because where that till day
(02:48):
is on that end, it's really throwing me off.
Casta. I can't even say it.
I'm I'm going to butcher it. Casta Castaneda.
Oh my God, this is horrible, guys.
I'm putting myself on the spot because I'm telling you how
difficult it was before to say it.
(03:08):
Tongue twister. But we all know him as Diego
from Umbrella Academy. So I have that dropping
tomorrow. I mean, I have a lot of stuff I
came and think about. I talked to a bunch of people
lately and I have a lot of reviews.
But Drew, you also have some stuff coming up.
You have a review dropping tomorrow I believe as well, or
even tonight. I do as kind of our resident, a
(03:28):
24 guy for for nurtropolis. I did go see materialists, which
is the newest ROM com from director Celine Song.
I don't know, Sean, if you caught Past Lives back in 2023,
I really, really enjoyed that movie.
And that was her directorial debut, Celine Song.
(03:50):
And so this is her follow up andthere's a review coming.
I'm working on it, you know, hopefully it'll be out soon.
The movie comes out in wide release this weekend.
But I can say I really enjoyed this one too.
It's not quite the emotional roller coaster gut punch that I
think that Past Lives was. Past Lives had maybe a little
(04:12):
bit more realism, but this movieis the stars Dakota Johnson,
Pedro Pascal and Chris Evans. It's so much more than just a
traditional ROM com that I feel like it's kind of billed as it's
like a love triangle with these three movie stars.
Like it is that, but it does have that Celine song kind of
(04:32):
realism. You get the romance, you get the
you know, that that part of it, but you also get like the
horrors of dating and then the the downs of dating and you get
you get true emotion and and feelings throughout it while
also being, you know, a fun movie for a lot of it.
So I I have a lot of good thingsto say about this and we'll have
(04:55):
a review up soon. Starring of three Marvel actors.
Yeah, we got Madam Webb and Mr. Fantastic and Captain America.
Flash the Human Torch, Flash theHuman Torch.
We got a lot of movies we talkedabout all summer long and I
think we're just going to take him like one film on a time.
The last episode was so jam packed.
I think we're start highlightingthem individually.
(05:18):
I'm excited to talk Ballerina, but I'm also excited to talk How
to Train Your Dragon when we do get that chance because Emmanuel
also saw saw an IMAX. He said it was amazing.
So I'm excited about all the films coming up.
I did grab tickets to that Amazon Prime Superman screening
happening July 8th before it comes out July 11th, which is my
(05:39):
birthday. So I probably might go see it
again on that day. But Drew, are you planning on
what are you planning on seeing that movie like day of You're
going to wait it out. I wanted to watch it as early as
possible and there might be another opportunity to watch it
before the 8th. I don't know.
But I'm taking the whole family a birthday present to myself to
catch Superman in IMAX. Are all the screenings on the
(06:01):
8th sold out already? No.
So check today, maybe just whileyou're talking to us right now.
I might actually try and do thattoo.
And then hopefully we can see itearly and, and do an earlier
episode before it releases. So 'cause I really am looking
forward to it. I, I, I think that Superman
(06:22):
looks really good. I have a lot of curiosity around
it, just with the James Gunn of it all and what he's going to do
and this kind of kick off of this new DCU, yeah.
Superman. I mean, it's just Superman.
I'll I'll watch it. I mean, I'm.
Gonna watch and I've been re watching the old ones.
I've I'm about to I just watchedthe first three Superman movies
(06:45):
with Christopher Reeve. So I I need to watch Superman 4
which I've actually never seen, although I hear that one is is
not good. But is that the one?
Is that the one with the comedian?
Oh man. It's got Jon Cryer as Lex
Luthor's son if I remember correctly.
Oh, really? Richard Pryor was in Superman 3.
(07:05):
Three. He's in Three.
That's the one. OK, John.
Yeah. I did watch that.
One John Carr ends up being Lex Luthor.
That's right, they brought him back in.
Was that in The CW shows? He.
Played The CW, I don't recall all that stuff so far in the
past even though it was like 2 years ago.
Yeah, so I've, I've been doing my Superman re watches before
leading up to this. So I just need to watch for and
(07:27):
I do plan to re watch Superman Returns, which I probably
haven't seen since 2006 or 7, you know, around that time.
And then I'll I'll watch Man of Steel.
CW Supergirl. That's that's right, That's
right. That was from CW times.
Feels like it was forever ago, but I think it was not that long
ago. But yeah, so much going on.
(07:49):
So we're going to take these episodes probably film at a time
just so we can highlight them individually because there's a
lot of great stuff coming out. Today's episode is it's kind of
a big one for me. It's not just another movie
discussion, it's about a universe I'm really big fan of,
a supporter of. I love supporting the world of
John Wick. Ballerina was an entry I was
(08:09):
super excited about for many reasons, but also seeing how
this world was going to expand. We got the Continental, that was
OK, but not really what we wanted.
And then we had obviously 4 cameout and now they're making a
chapter 5 somehow. But also we got talks about an
anime series, which I'm super excited about because I actually
know the the man behind running that series and, and I think
(08:33):
it's a series of it's an animated project.
So I don't know if it's a show or movie, but I'm super excited
for that as well. But expanding it with a female
lead and leaning into that worldof the ballerina world that we
got introduced to in the previous films was super
exciting. I love the elegance, the chaos,
the mythology, all in this world.
The Continental is like one of the coolest things to me.
(08:53):
We're also getting one of that the cane spin off too.
So we're getting a lot, a lot ofworld building happening in this
franchise. Drew and this is on a level I
didn't see coming since like 2 and 3 came out.
I was like, these are just goingto be standalone, kind of the
standalone franchise and how is it going to expand?
And then we saw it before. It's like they're building a
lot. They keep world building in
(09:13):
every film which is awesome. Well, it's only.
Grown more layered and stylized with every every film.
Yeah, I can still remember it vividly because, you know, I'm
sure everybody remembers this is, you know, this isn't
anything new. But to say when the original
John Wick came out, people were just so amused at like, oh, it's
this guy and they killed his dogand then he kills everyone.
(09:35):
And it's like a pretty simple premise.
But still within that movie, they do set up the Continental
and and a little bit of the world of assassins, but kind
kind of keeps it all like at a distance.
It's there, but it's not. They don't fully dive into it
until I feel like John Wick chapter 2 is where it really
gets into like the lore of this world of assassins and and more
(09:58):
into the continental and and therules and and so on and so
forth. And it is pretty crazy how this
movie, it was essentially a pretty small Lionsgate movie
back in 2014 when it came out. I mean it was a 20 to 30.
Million struggle to get the money.
First of all, I highly recommendeveryone watch Wicca's paint.
Fantastic documentary talks about how Eva Longoria, the
(10:22):
Desperate Housewife was the one that fronted the money to save
production of the first film. They were struggling to finance
it and look where we are now. Yeah, I don't think there's any
way they knew it that time. I'm sure they had hopes for it,
but there no one knew it was going to be a franchise that 10
years later is is five films andATV series deep with three
(10:47):
potential additional projects onthe way.
Film projects. I mean, it was an indie film
pretty much is what what it was so.
So when they announced Ballerina, a spin off in the
same universe, I was really cautiously just excited.
But you know, spin offs can be hit or miss.
With the right care, you can expand ways and possible ways
(11:08):
before we like, truly dive in. I know you're a fan of this
world, but where does the John Wick series sit for you in terms
of modern action? I would, I would say I regard
them really well. I think that one and four in
particularly I think are really good.
(11:29):
I, I think, I think 2 is probably the worst of them and I
really like 2, so I'll put it that way.
It's that kind of franchise where even though if you try to
rank them and even the one that you like the least is still
really good. Right.
And what I really loved about this world is the side
characters. At the same time, you know,
(11:50):
outside of Keanu, there's a lot of you going to find a character
you also like outside of of Keanu Reeves.
I really thought ballerina delivered on what it what we
expected. I really thought Anna de Armas
was fantastic pick because when do we see her really kick butt?
It was in that James double O 7 with No Time to Die.
We saw that scene and we're like, give her something to do
(12:13):
where she kicks butt and here weare.
We tried to do that in in the Netflix movie The Grey Man,
where she starred alongside RyanGosling, but that is a movie
that nobody remembers despite being directed by the Russos.
And it's not good. And there's a lot of action and
she does actually things in it, but it's been a wipe from
everybody's memory. But but Ana Darmus is an action
(12:38):
star. Yeah, it is.
And I feel like she's kind of late.
I mean, she's not as young as you would think, but her career
started a little later. But she started like being in
almost everything and kind of just accelerated her career.
And this is where we are now, giving her a John's John Wick
spin off, a ballerina. She completely owns this movie.
She's physical, emotional. I really love the way she fights
(13:03):
in this. Like, her whole back story is
really interesting. What did you think about the
back story of Eve? Obviously they show a young Eve
in this house with her dad as this whole group comes in and
tries to take her away. I, I thought it was OK.
I think the, the intro and maybethe first like 30 minutes of the
(13:24):
film, I, I struggled with it a little bit until it started to,
to pick up steam for me later on.
It. There is a lot of back story in
introducing her and and how she came to like this dance school
that if you want, you know, dance dance school.
There were there were some good,good action scenes in it, but I
(13:46):
was I I feel like I was kind of waiting for the movie to really
pick up during some of these parts.
I mean. I was surprised at The Who her
dad was Speaking of and I say that in my interview that I had
no clue that we we're going to have him as Eve's dad.
I don't know why I'm drawing a blank but I just said his name
is it's cost. I could not that that name is
(14:08):
going to bother me forever, but David I got to speak to and I
told him that I actually did, you know, he was in this movie
because I didn't know. I did not.
And I told him that I felt like I was Leonardo Dicaprio's
pointing at the screen be like, I did not know Diego's in here
from Umbrella Academy. And he was really good in this
role. And it was very surprising.
(14:28):
And I was talking to him as like, you could definitely have
your own kind of spin off as well because your character has
a very interesting back story that does get highlighted in
ballerina, but we don't get too much of it.
And he was just talking about how his fighting style was.
They talk about the fighting style for his character and was
kind of to disarm and not hurt or kill.
So it's very interesting at how they take people's fighting
(14:50):
styles into play when they're crafting these films.
Just like Anna de Armas, her fighting style was sloppy
because she's so new to this in the assassin world too.
And so that's what she was saying.
So hopefully when we do get a ballerina to like, she's more
tight in her fights, but she said it was sloppy on purpose
and stunts and fighting choreography is it plays a big
(15:11):
deal in this franchise, which I really, really love.
Were you surprised about Honor to Armis and some of her moves
and some of the action shots? I liked that part of it, what
you're talking about the like the kind of learning curve of it
because I think it's a good contrast to the other John Wick
movies were like in John Wick, once the the events of the first
film are set up, it's like John Wick doesn't have to be trained
(15:33):
and learn how to fight. He already knows how to fight
and you know, he but you know, we we hit the ground running
there and here we're actually seeing the back story and the
training and what goes into it. And I think I did enjoy the
sense of confidence that she gained through the through the
film, that that is a true arc that you see and it's it's
believable with the pacing of the movie.
(15:55):
Yeah, it was a little bit of a slow, sorry.
We'll agree with you on there because we do see her childhood
and kind of how she gets in thislittle ballerina, you know,
club, I guess I would call it. And then how she runs into John
Wick, which is very interesting because this movie takes place,
I guess during three technically, not between 3:00
(16:16):
and 4:00. It's like a midway point in
three. I just couldn't figure out
exactly which scene it was because they did reshuffle a
scene from three into this and kind of reshot it in a certain
way to connect it. But let's talk about the action,
because there's one scene that'sthat's in my head right now.
Ice skates as weapons. Did you see that coming at all?
(16:40):
That was good. And I feel like that's that's in
the kind of last latter part, right?
Like that's in the the kind of final.
Town. Oh, we got a lot of things.
We get we get a flamethrower. Yeah, we get a lot of
flamethrower. We get a lot of weapons, a lot
of fighting, a lot of dead bodies.
Compared to the other films, I think the count might be higher
(17:01):
or just as high as the last filmthat wasn't.
I wasn't counting though. I'm looking, I just saw in the
comments we've got, Emmanuel said the movie felt like
expanded DLC video game content in a good way.
I do kind of agree with that. It's.
Like a side quest with a new character.
And it totally works because we're all still invested in John
(17:24):
Wick himself. So it's very hard to see how
much we can show love to a new character.
But with Ana de Armas leading the way, it works.
We'll see what happens with the The Cane spinoff.
I do think that this movie, I understand from a marketing
perspective why they have to, you know, promote it the way
(17:46):
they are like with the whole from the world of John Wick
showing Keanu in the trailers, all that I I get it.
I do think that if you took Keanu out of this movie entirely
and you took out the From the World of John Wick take.
Keanu out of this? Movie, I'm not, I'm not saying,
I'm just saying that if you did,I think the movie still stands
(18:08):
on its own pretty well. It's not like amazing
necessarily, but like you could take Keanu out and the movie's
fine. I understand that from a movie
studio perspective and you wanting this movie to make money
on par with what the other John Wick movies especially for have
made in the past. Like this is a franchise and you
(18:29):
wanted to make franchise money, but the movie there's there's
like a lot of rumors and things about like the reshoots that had
to happen with Chad Sulheski kind of coming back to oversee
some things and and did they addmore Keanu into the movie or not
because they were worried about it so on so.
Forth. Well, this is what I know.
I will share what I know. OK First off, Ballerina was
(18:51):
written by Shay Hayden. Shay Hayden wrote three and
four. I believe Co wrote those.
I think he's this young kid, he created Ballerina as like a
original story, nothing to do with John Wick, but he's working
with Lionsgate or whatever team he's working with.
And they saw it and they said this is something we can
incorporate into John Wick. Let's do it.
So that makes sense. Yes, so that's what happened
(19:14):
with this whole Ballerina world,similar to the Continental.
That was like an afterthought that I could expand on the
Continental that there was one on every.
You know, as this franchise expands, they're just grabbing
ideas. They have great writers, great
teams and Ballerina was just a script that was sitting there
and they decide to swallowed it into the world of John Wick,
which works maybe added certain things to it.
(19:34):
Len Len was there so and Chad was there too, doing all these
shoots, right. So they just want to maybe just
elevate it because Len is a fantastic director.
Len Wiseman came from the world of Underworld, you know,
Underworld and Live Free and DieHard.
You know, he is awesome. He loves this world, big fan of
it. But you have Chad and Chad comes
(19:56):
from the stunt world. So like that's probably some of
the reshoots that happened is just to optimize the stunts and
the action sequences because that is a whole different grit
and vibe that not everyone can capture because we don't see it
in other films. No one can replicate what Chad
created. And if you watch Wicked.
You can see it's almost a trademark pretty much of what
(20:16):
this is in the world of John Wick, and that's probably some
of the reshoots and just some ofthe add-ons just to elevate the
film. And, and I know that's what
they're saying and everything. I've just seen some things in
like the the journalism behind it, like behind the scenes stuff
that that part of the initiativethere was to get more Keanu into
the movie. And I don't know if that's, you
(20:37):
know, with some of the action scenes that they were adding to
it. And I don't know if that's, I
don't think they've confirmed that or not, but still, it's
like, I don't even think you needed to do that.
Maybe they're adding other action scenes in general.
But there's I do think that there's some really solid action
in this movie, but I don't thinkany of the action in this movie
(20:59):
overtakes any of the big set pieces from the actual WIC
movies. Like it seems like the best
action set pieces are still reserved for that, although
there were some in this movie that I really enjoyed.
You mentioned the ice. Ice skates, the plates that the
whole town, that snowy town towards and as you see here, the
snowy town stuff was it was amazing, I thought.
(21:20):
That is when I felt like the movie really started to cook for
me. I was enjoying it.
I feel like it kind of picked upwhen you get to the Continental.
There's a big scene at the Continental where we meet Norman
Reedus's character. But then from there, when they
go to this Austrian town, I thought everything there was
really great. And there are some really cool.
Like there's another part in an action scene that stuck out to
(21:41):
me where she's like, I don't remember if it's a grenade or it
throws A grenade but then hides like gets behind.
No, no, no, she throws it behind.
Like there's a bad guy behind the big metal door and she.
Oh, it's like in the Arsenal where she goes to get some
weapons, she gets the weapon andthen she.
She holds up against the metal door, like where the door
basically creates a triangle between the walls and the door.
(22:02):
And I thought that was really clever.
Like, things like that stuck outto me as like, oh, that's really
neat. And that's, that's what you want
from these movies, right? You want those moments where you
say, man, that was cool. I've never seen that before.
Well, and Speaking of Norman, I thought he was a great addition,
definitely underutilized. I will say that, but it was
great to have him this and that means, you know, he can be part
of this world even further. He comes from a world that he
(22:24):
knows how to handle action love the boondocks saying spin.
That's that's a hoping a third one comes out.
But that's kind of where he got his start.
But like to see him in this franchise is fantastic,
especially with The Walking Deadsuccess.
And speaking to him, he said that Anna really took this
fiercely and seriously. And then when he was shooting
(22:46):
that senior talk about the Continental where all
everything's exploding, all the charges were kind of set up and
he had to watch where his head was going cuz things were just
exploding left and right. So some really great insights
for my conversation with Norman on that.
Definitely think he can come back in some force.
I thought it was a great addition.
His character is pretty interesting as well because he's
not really a bad guy per SE, butprobably has a darker past that
(23:09):
we don't know about. Speaking of the Continental, I
love the fact that we got to seethe late Lance Reddick to come
back as Sharon. I think it's wild when they shot
this because they shot this a while ago.
I don't exactly know when they did, but the fact that Lance was
able to be a part of this feels like they were able to shoot
(23:33):
this really early on as 4 was before 4 came out.
It looks like they shot it from November 2022.
Let's see throughout the month in in December.
Let's see yes so they I mean they shot it before 4 came out
which. Is and actually.
Quickly they they were getting putting this together.
(23:54):
They knew they wanted to do this.
Yeah, they were filming it in late 2022 basically, probably
into 2023. And Lance Reddick unfortunately
passed away in March of 2023. So is is this confirmed to be
his last on screen appearance? I don't know, a lot of things
been popping up of other stuff that, you know, voice over and
(24:14):
other things. I mean, there's possibilities of
maybe more. I always bring this up.
I love his Lex Luthor and Kite Man.
I mean, that was a joy to see aswell.
But it just goes to show how busy he was, you know, and how,
how many because it's, it's kindof incredible at how many on
(24:36):
screen appearances we've gotten from him.
You know, John Wick chapter 4 when it was released, you know,
like was right around the same time that he passed away and
everything that's I feel like I've seen him on screen a lot in
the past two years. And every time it happens, it
just reminds you and it's so, it's so sad.
But it's a busy. Man to see, to see him in this.
(24:59):
Yeah, I was a busy man and I I spoke to Len about this, about,
you know, his memories of, you know, anytime I can talk to
someone that worked with Lance, I will bring it up because he
was such a great my first in person interview and the 15
minutes I had with them just changed my whole life.
And we got to nerd out office together.
So I will always bring up that opportunity.
I was I will always bring up anychance I get to shine a light on
(25:21):
Lance. Reddick just shared a real on my
Instagram, the neuropolis Instagram as well when talking
about Lance and just it was a class act pretty much.
And that's what Sharon and he said, you know, Lance and Sharon
are pretty much the same person.And, and hearing Lance talk
about how he came up with the back story for Sharon himself
and kind of pitched it and they accepted.
(25:42):
It's pretty awesome too. Like he created this character
pretty much he worked with what they gave him on paper, but kind
of created this this character that everyone loved.
Ian McShane is back as well but seeing the part of the
continental was awesome but I wish we got more Continental.
Emmanuel told me this before that felt some of the Lance
Reddick scenes felt off like they added Annulator in post but
(26:04):
I I don't believe that at at allespecially how early they they
film this as well. Maybe some of the stuff with
Keanu was added later because Keanu is also very busy and also
like likes to take some time offbecause he was also, I don't
know, when he was touring with Dog Star with his band and he
was doing some other projects aswell.
(26:25):
So. But other than that, I felt like
the new cast was awesome. What do you think about the
supporting cast? Who stood out to you from the
new or from all your faces? Let me see.
Angelica Houston was awesome coming back.
I really like that. She's great.
(26:46):
Gabriel Byrne, who played the antagonist, the the Chancellor,
I thought was menacing and, you know, was a good villain.
Of course, Norman Reedus is always just a presence when he
shows up. But I agree with you.
I'm like a little underutilized.Could have used a lot more of
him. But that does feel like it's a
lot of set up. But I don't think we've seen the
(27:07):
last of his character in this universe.
Yeah, I think those are. And then of course, like Ian
McShane, you can't have a Wick movie without Ian McShane as
well. I, I love also just like Lances
Sharon, how important Ian McShane is in this franchise as
Winston. You know, really the biggest
(27:29):
connector outside of Keanu is John Wick to this world.
And like you said, if we you could have done without Keanu.
But I think we couldn't have done it, I don't think, without
Winston. Well, and to be clear, I'm not
saying I could have done withoutKeanu.
That's not what I'm saying. I mean, the movie was fine
without Keanu. Adding Keanu is just an extra,
you know, cherry on top the the movie could have could do on its
(27:50):
own without it, but I don't think it could have done it
without Winston is what I'm saying.
I think Winston is this connecting piece to this world,
especially when you got the Continentals going and
everything else that Winston is been around a long time.
For sure, if you don't have Winston or Sharon, it's then you
take off that from the world of John Wick because then it really
doesn't exist in this world. I feel like you have to have
(28:13):
them with the continental name for it to exist in the world of
John Wick. Right.
And the fact that we know Keanu's in here and we saw him,
I didn't think we're going to get as much as we did.
I was actually very surprised how much Keanu is in this film.
We could say like he's some people might say he's not in it
enough. I was actually surprised we got
this much. I I didn't think it was going to
(28:33):
be this kind of one-on-one battle for a little bit.
I didn't think he was going to be that intricate early on too,
with that little passing betweenthe two of them.
I just thought it was going to be a cameo.
But it's not a cameo, guys, I'lltell this.
You cannot label this as a cameo.
This is definitely he's in the film.
He's part of the the movie, partof the story and part of
(28:53):
definitely the climax of the film.
I will say that if. If there was any more of him
though, it would have been too much and I feel like you'd be
taking away from Ana de Armas inthe movie.
It it's they they do it well. Yeah, they do.
And I mean, just looking like I I just love this.
This is my favorite shots from the film.
You know, this is the fierce of Ana de Armas.
I really is a star, an action star.
(29:16):
She worked so hard for this film, which is really fun.
We don't get many rated R actionfilms, you know, they're very
rare and then when they come in the summertime, there's the best
time to watch them and a great way to expand the world of John
Wick. For me, Ballerina is just not a
great spin off. I think it's a really beautiful
extension of the world. The right way to do it without
(29:37):
seeing seeming like a cash grab.Because like I said, this story
came before it getting connectedto John Wick, so it was already
a standalone film. They decided it fit perfectly in
this chaotic world they're building.
And I just love Anna's performance and I love the
stylized action with Len at the helm and then Chad being part of
like get making sure all the stunts are like John Wick esque.
(29:59):
And that grit is there. And I think that's what's so
awesome about this is the the grit of the film because it's
there. You know, just to re emphasize,
and I don't say this as a knock against the movie because I
genuinely don't mean it as such,but what you're saying about it
was written as its own thing. And then they said, hey,
actually we can incorporate thisinto the WIC world.
That makes sense from what I sawon screen.
(30:19):
Because like you can see there'sthere's a movie here that
doesn't have any of the continental and WIC stuff in it.
That makes sense. And it's, you know, has its own
well developed characters and world and everything.
But I do think it was, you know,an overall smart move to to, you
know, add it in there. It fits.
You have the ballerina stuff, the dance school set up in John.
(30:42):
I think back in John Wick Chapter 3 you fit this right in.
Well, that's where I originally came from, I believe.
I think that's where they grabbed the ballerina and put it
in three. They had this already, I believe
so in three so that if a few years, well that makes sense.
You can Fact Check me on this, but I believe that's where the
idea came from. They put it in three and then
(31:03):
decide to put put the put the this new film.
That makes sense. When did 3 come out 2019?
Man time fly. Yeah, 2019, Sean, When I saw
John Wick Chapter 3, Parabellum,the full title, I saw that it
was before I had kids so I coulddo this kind of thing.
(31:26):
Alamo Drafthouse had a, you know, three.
They showed John Wick 1, John Wick Chapter 2, and leading to
the premiere of John Wick Chapter 3 on a Thursday night.
So I watched 1-2 and then the premiere of three, all
back-to-back to back. It was so many bullets.
It was so much action. I love movies and like this
(31:49):
franchise, but watching 3 John Wick movies back-to-back to back
is a lot. It could be exhausting.
I can see that like I I can definitely see that.
Emmanuel says what if ballerina helped fake John Wick's death to
set up John Wick 5 just by personal fan fiction.
That's pretty interesting. I'm pretty sure Jay Hayden's
around Jay Hayden is working with Chad to put together a
(32:10):
story. I'm pretty sure because he
helped Co wrote three and four. I remember speaking to him and
the other writer, which I have all those interviews on our
YouTube channel in their tropolis.
But they're they're at it. You know, they're working on
something that's going to make sense.
And I don't think anyone believeJohn Wick was dead.
I think John Wick the assassin was dead, not John Wick the man.
(32:32):
I don't know, something that's what I'm thinking about.
So I think that was just his wayto kind of lay low.
Has there been any? I know they've announced John
Wick chapter 5, but is there anyreal movement there?
Like is it had they you know, dothey even have a script?
They got a story coming. I mean, they got they got some
type of story. And then there's a new animated
(32:53):
prequel to the John Wick franchise that's coming, which
I'm super excited about. And Keanu Reeves will voice John
Wick in that. So it's he's connected.
He's not leaving this franchise at all.
So that's super exciting. And that's going to be directed
by shit Nintendo who did Ultraman Rising so.
It is a. It is anime film.
(33:13):
It's a film, it's not a show. So now I have confirmed that.
So that's going to be exciting to see.
I mean, they're expanding this world as much as possible.
And I know Emmanuel said at somepoint he said avoid the he said
avoid the continental TV series.It is horrible.
Yeah. It's not the best just because
they kind of, it was a separate project away from Lionsgate and
(33:36):
from Chad. It was like a it was just like
an independent project away fromthe creators and the people that
really know the world of John Wick and they kind of added some
things that maybe didn't work and they didn't want to
establish for some of the characters.
That's where I'm at that. But I mean, it's an interesting
concept to go that far back for the Continental.
But other than the John Wick anime film prequel, I kind of
(34:00):
want to see everything moving forward.
Ballerina needs to move forward.I don't want to see anything in
between. The Kane film hopefully takes
place after four, just like the kind of end credits scene.
It just follows up on that. I don't want to go backwards in
anything. I just want to move forward.
Kind of tired of these in between stories and prequels.
I just want to see things move more.
(34:20):
You got to, you got to slot things in.
Although I will say this is better done in that regard.
Weirdly enough. Then like Black Widow, it was
where like the character had already died and you're like,
why do I care about this thing that happened in the lead up to
Civil War or whatever? Because they have the Red
Guardian. That's why that movie worked so
well for me. Black Widow because of the Red
(34:41):
Guardian, honestly. But that's like slotting it in a
little too, you know, almost toolittle, too late.
Although I actually like Black Widow.
I defend that movie a little bit, but this one, I guess maybe
because it's focused on a different character, the
slotting in between other entries in the franchise works a
little bit better for me. I am curious, Sean, where do you
(35:04):
like, I'm not saying you have todo an official ranking of all
the John Wick movies right now, but where would Ballerina fall
on your rankings of the main entries of the franchise?
It's hard because it's not a John Wick filmed in my eyes like
it's and it's adjacent, right. So like it's really hard to put
it against a John Wick actual film, right.
But I would do like the first John Wick and then four and
(35:27):
three, put that and then put ballerina in there and then end
with two. OK, that's fair.
I would say. Yeah, I kind of agree with you.
Like my instinct was ballerinas probably at the bottom of my
rankings. But again, like I liked this
movie. So that's, you know, it's,
that's not damning this movie, but it's.
Hard to do it. Yeah.
It's hard to place it in a placeagainst all the amazing John
(35:49):
Wick films. It doesn't.
It's kind of the surface to the film because it's on a kicking
butt on her own with no help. Like, that's what's awesome
about this. It's to me, the cast in this
film was felt very small, despite you having a lot of
people in this film that's great.
Very focused on Anna and everything else.
It's solely on her and then everyone around her and how
(36:09):
she's navigating this life and her revenge story and everything
else. It is kind of amazing how they
can do that with, with the exception of it, I'd say John
Wick Chapter 4 and to an extent 3.
It is kind of interesting how they're able to really self
contain these movies and even asthe budgets get a little bit
higher because this is a successful franchise, doesn't
(36:29):
feel like this huge movie. 4 probably did a bit more.
I mean 4 was almost 3 hours longand had some just set piece
after set piece after set piece after set piece.
Chapter 4 had what I wanted, Mission Impossible, The Final
Reckoning to have it. Just like I just needed more set
pieces for that movie to be the final entry.
(36:50):
John Wick Chapter 4 delivered onthat front.
It was almost too much. I'm like, OK, we're three hours
of action. Like, give me a break.
The roundabout scene. John Wick.
Four with a Carl like, let's keep going.
Five more times around, let's keep going.
I just think of that classic like the kind.
Of top down almost video game seeming scene and how cool that
what like that stuff. That's why I highly recommend.
Wick is pain the documentary. I think you can rent it online
(37:12):
like on Amazon and other places you can get rentals cause that's
the only way right now. You can watch it until someone
picks it up for streaming. But Wick is paint is a fantastic
documentary because I don't knowwhy they thought to have the
cameras rolling before they start filming the first film
like there were there's so much behind the scenes stuff from the
first film prior to them even starting the filming on that is
(37:33):
amazing. Just like coming it up, coming
up with it, scouting, just creating the companies, just a
lot of stuff. It's wild how far this franchise
has come, which was just an independent film.
Drew, what is your rating star rating for this film?
Out of five stars, I'm probably.Like about a 3 1/2, that's good.
(37:57):
That's pretty good. That's.
That's a, that's a solid rating from Drew.
And so I sit at a four out of five stars for Ballerina.
I'm sorry, from the world of John Wick Ballerina as Drew
likes it. That's what I'm saying.
It's like I probably. Have 1/4 and three, all this
like 4 out of five stars. Yeah, one might even be a four
(38:17):
and a half. I guess.
I love that movie. 2 I have a step down is like a 3 1/2.
So Ballerina is kind of right there is like a three or a 3
1/2. It's really good and I think
some people. Don't understand how actually
great entertainment it is. So hopefully you know, if you
haven't seen it yet, grab your tickets.
It's a really a wild ride. It's really a great adults night
out. Don't take the kids to this one,
(38:38):
but especially if you go with the universe from the start,
like I have like it's it's really awesome film, a great
addition, as Emmanuel says me say right here, the flamethrower
gunfight is worth the movie ticket price itself.
I mean, that's, that's fair and,and I will.
Say, kind of like going back to to my take on it is that if you
were like me and maybe the beginning, the like the
(39:01):
introductory scenes aren't grabbing you as much.
And, you know, stick with it because I do think that once
this a large portion of this movie takes place in that
Austrian town we referred to. And to me, the movie is cooking
with gas at that point. It's like, you know, I think it
is worth the price of admission just for getting to that scene
(39:24):
and how it doesn't let off the brakes.
And I just love the idea of thisisolated, wintry Austrian town
that seems like this just kind of small town.
And then there's a lot more going on there than you realize
with the rest of everyone's a assassin in this town.
Pretty. Much kids, kids and adults.
It's a it's a vicious little small town.
(39:44):
I will say that I love that. I love that as soon as that.
You know, this outsider comes inand it's all quiet until things
go haywire and everybody's afterthis this girl and the blades,
the blade scene with all the. Plates that's I love that yeah.
Everything in that like Austrian.
Restaurant was so good. Yeah, it was great.
Yeah, it is fantastic. So.
(40:04):
That wraps it up for another episode of the moviegoers
society. Make sure to follow and
subscribe for all our you know, episodes every week, my
interviews, our reviews on our tropics.com.
Our socials are dropping all thereels and all this news on
there. We got so much coming your way.
Maybe some hot takes coming soon.
But thanks for hanging us tonight live.
If you're watching this live, appreciate y'all joining us or
(40:27):
on replay. But until next time, I am Sean
Tosh with the mayor of Nurtropolis, and I am Drew
Munhausen. The.
Professional media and movie mastermind and we'll.
See you at the movies. Thank you all.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.