October 4, 2025 • 13 mins
Jon Gunn joins Reel Insights to talk about directing House of David Season 2, the biblical epic’s massive scale, and working with star Michael Iskander as both a warrior and a poet. He opens up about balancing faith and storytelling, filming wild on-set moments, and his collaborations with Alan Ritchson and Zachary Levi.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Well, hello, John. It's great to meet you.
Hi, Sean, good to meet you too. Congrats on like this huge and
epic start to season 2 of House of David.
It has been awesome what I've seen so far and one of the rare
shows that like comes back quickly.
We don't have we don't have to wait that long since season 1.
So thank you for that. Yeah, I'll tell you what it was.
It's been quite an effort to push this out, but we kind of
(00:23):
jumped right into season 2. We were actually shooting season
2 when season 1 aired. And so we all got the like the
satisfaction of like seeing how people were enjoying it while we
were making it. And that was actually a nice
boost because people were just so excited and the response was
beyond what we could have imagined the season 1.
So it was a nice boost while we were struggling through a quick
(00:44):
turn around on Season 2. Yeah, it's been obviously highly
praised for obvious reasons. And the demand is there for more
of this story, and you're delivering it.
Season 2, you know, really dropsus into this Kingdom on the
brink of Saul unraveling, David rising.
How did you want to approach capturing the intensity of this
powership without losing much ofthe personal and human side of
(01:04):
the story? Well, that's the great balance
of this show, honestly, that I feel like, you know, we've,
we've and I, and I think season 2 does it even better than
season 1 because we give a tremendous amount of scope.
You know, there's a lot of there's, there's a lot of high
stakes, right? David stepping into his destiny
is going to come at a great cost.
And that cost means big battle scenes and epic scope, but also
(01:26):
all of the drama within the palace and within the family's
relationships, the love story, the father, daughter, the
brother, you know, the siblings.And so we get a, we get a really
good balance of like complex, powerful drama with these truly
excellent actors. I mean, just extraordinary cast.
And so it's been so exciting having made Season 1 to know how
(01:47):
good these actors really are andto be able to write to their
strengths. And this season is so much more
complex, just within the relationships and so much bigger
with regard to the scope and scale.
So I think if you liked season 1, you're really going to love
season 2. I'm, I'm really proud of it.
Usually, you know, in the first season, everyone's finding their
footing, but I feel like there was like a preseason because
(02:10):
Season 1 was so great and all the actors were on top of it.
So they're just continuing the greatness from Season 1.
And the series brings, you know,the age of iron to life with
warfare and politics evolving quickly.
Can you talk about balancing thehistorical authenticity by
making the the the action actually accessible and
thrilling for modern audience? Yeah, and you know what's cool
about it? Is that the Age of Iron?
(02:32):
Like this was an interesting thing that emerged in the
writers room. We realized our show is set
right at that transition from the Age of bronze to the Age of
Iron. And it's a season of
transformation. It's kind of hard to imagine,
but from a modern perspective that that shift from bronze to
iron, that is a technological evolution that will change the
world. And if you've got iron and your
(02:52):
enemy doesn't, then you have a massive advantage.
And so the power of Goliath sword being an iron sword in
this new technology emerging is a metaphor for David being this
powerful weapon that will changethe world and, and the
transformation of David from from from shepherd to warrior.
He's going to be forged in fire,right?
(03:14):
And so, and, and it comes at great cost and with a lot of
pain, but also some really good drama.
So for a modern audience, what'scool about that is it's just the
specificity of that time period.It's different than a lot of
things we're used to watching. So it's fun to get into the
details of what it was to make iron when no one really knew how
to make it and how it would benefit you and give you an
(03:35):
advantage. How long?
But many other things about thatera that are different, you
know? No, I, I love it and obviously
there's no House of David without David, played by
Michael, who was I? I enjoyed talking to him
previously. He is continuing to be praised
not just for his acting but alsofor his musical talent.
That fans love the singing and playing and we get another taste
of it early in Season 2. Can audiences expect more of
(03:57):
that woven into the story this year?
Definitely. I mean, he's a warrior poet all
the way to the end and so we love to put his voice in the
show. There are new songs coming out
this season. We're also releasing, releasing,
we're also releasing a soundtrack of David's, but it
has AB side that's all of his Psalms.
And so I think people, a lot of people have been asking for that
(04:19):
because he just has an extraordinary voice.
And Kevin Kiner and his team whowrite the the music for the
show, have written lovely melodies for these songs.
And so I'm excited to have some new music this season in the
midst of all the action. Everyone's demanding it.
I see it all night every day. You know, David's known as both
a warrior and a poet and, and, and Michael has truly brought
(04:40):
him to life. And did Michael's, you know,
natural musicality help you increase the side of the poet
and the character on screen? I feel like he brings a lot to
to David, definitely. I mean, he has shaped this role
in such powerful ways. And his voice was the first
piece that the moment we met him, he sang something for us,
sent it to us as a text on our phone.
(05:00):
And we were like, wow. And we brought that to our
composer, and we said we want asmuch of this in the show.
It's even shaped the melodies ofthe score itself.
The quality of his voice, which is so pivotal to how it brought
peace to the King and was transformational to so many
people, has been a real, real gift.
And so, yes, definitely Michael brings a lot to that, and he is
(05:21):
an extraordinary performer. He plays the liar for real.
You know, he learned to play that instrument the way he plays
the guitar. So there are, there are more
times than you might expect where he's singing live on set,
which is very rare. And he's just plucking that
thing, singing that thing, singing these songs live.
And it's beautiful for everybodyon set to hear.
Yeah, everyone continues to praise just not just acting but
(05:44):
his musical talent as well. You've directed both intimate
films and large scale epics. What unique challenges does
House of David present in terms of scales, sets and and special
effects? Yeah.
You know, the, the, the challenge for us is because we
do it so quickly and with less money than a lot of people, you
know, you have to find that balance of prioritizing.
How do we get all of the scope and all the scale and all this
(06:06):
action without sacrificing the drama and the intimate moments?
And I think we, we really do John Irwin and I sort of divide
and conquer a lot in figuring out how to make sure we're
putting enough time into both ofthose things.
And I think we, I mean, we jam these episodes filled with a lot
of both. You'll see this season is
extraordinary. The performances are amazing.
There's a lot of beautiful, quiet, intimate moments.
(06:28):
There's a lot of wonderful unleashed, visceral, dynamic
acting moments. And then there's tons of action
and scope. So we fight hard for that
balance. Yeah, I've already got a taste
of it, and I like what I've seen.
You know, this show does mix, you know, biblical faith with
universal storytelling. But you know, in this world that
we're in today, how do you ensure it resonates with both
(06:49):
faith audiences that you know and those who just might be
coming just for the drama and just for entertainment as well?
I mean, I think it naturally serves both, you know, like, I
guess it's the same way that youcan be someone, you can really
enjoy Lord of the Rings, even ifyou've never read Tolkien, you
know, it's, this is the, in manyways, the origin of the hero's
journey, right? And, and David's character is
(07:10):
the template for, for whether it's Frodo or Luke Skywalker or
Spider Man and Harry Potter, Youknow, I mean, I think we all
recognize the power of the storyof a, of a, of a person plucked
from obscurity with the destiny greater than they imagined.
And so, so I think it's just, it's a very entertaining and
compelling and action-packed show, regardless of whether you
(07:33):
know the source material or believe in the Bible.
And so, but if you do know the material and if you do love the
material, this brings it to lifein a way that should be even
more compelling and, and, and, and, and resonant, you know?
Yeah, the the audience is diverse, 100%.
And for good reason too, becauseyou're hitting all the right
things for everybody that enjoysthe steps of storytelling.
(07:57):
I got to talk about you working with my favorite actors.
You worked with a lot of amazingpeople, but Alan Richardson is
one of my favorites and a lot ofpeople's favorites.
And you know what? What did Alan bring to Ordinary
Angels that surprise you the most?
Or just in general? Like he really, truly stands out
amongst leading men in this industry.
Yeah, he brought so much humanity and vulnerability to
(08:19):
that role. And it was, it was a real great
gift. I mean, I met him, you know,
this was a number of years ago when I first met him and, and
when we cast him in that role, he was doing all this big action
stuff and Reacher, of course. And I, the moment I met him, I
was like, oh, there he's a father, he's a husband.
He's he's really like a big kid,you know, in this massive body,
(08:41):
but also has a great sensitivityand vulnerability and he's very
vocal about his own life and struggles and things.
And so that there is a nuance towhat he's capable of that, you
know, we don't often see when you watch a show like Reacher.
And I think he knew that and waswas excited for the opportunity.
And I just absolutely adore thisman.
(09:01):
I mean, he's an incredible talent.
He's a wonderful man, a great partner to work with.
I'm looking forward to finding aproject to work on again with
him because he's just so, so great.
And he and Hilary Swank togetherin Ordinary Angels.
They were just a power duo, the two of them together.
Yeah, I mean, Hillary is just a force of of on her own.
I mean, she's amazing. And yeah, I hope you and Alan
get to do another project together.
(09:22):
I'd like to see what y'all are able to to do.
And also, you know, you helped bring American Underdog to life,
which I really enjoyed on the Breakable Boy with fantastic
film with Zachary Levi. He's someone that audiences
really associate with charm and hearts as well.
What was it about Zach, you know, that made him for those
types of films and inspirationalstories?
Well, it was great. We actually, we had cast Zach,
(09:43):
an American underdog, right before COVID hit.
And when COVID happened, it shutthat movie down for a while.
And while we were sitting aroundwondering what we were going to
do with our lives, I wrote the adaptation of Unbreakable Boy
and we were like, wow, we're already making a movie with
Zach. He'd kind of be great for this
movie too. And because we were shooting in
the early days of COVID, before there were any real protocols,
(10:03):
we sort of bubbled up in Oklahoma and just decided we
would do both of these movies back-to-back.
So I had written both movies andproduced both of them.
I directed Unbreakable Boy and the Irwin brothers directed
American Underdog. So we kind of just like spent 4
1/2 months in Oklahoma and shot my movie first where we could
figure out all the difficulties of shooting in COVID.
(10:24):
I took all the early bullets on that.
And then and then Zach was training for football.
Well, while we were shooting on Breakable Boy in between takes
on my movie, he was like learning, you know, all the
skills he needed for American Underdog.
And so, and yeah, he he had so many of the attributes needed to
play Kurt Warner. And those same things really
(10:45):
applied nicely in different waysto the the character in in
Unbreakable Boy. So we had a great time together.
I got to see maybe Zach and Alanin a film together somehow.
I think we should also work on that last thing I asked.
You know, filming in a period setting often brings some wild
onset moments. You just never know what's going
to be thrown at you. Do you have any like only on the
(11:08):
House of David's stories? Maybe something with costumes,
weather, or unplanned prop that created the Memorial Day.
Yeah, the the great question. I mean, first of all, you have
no idea. As as sweet as the sheep are for
a shepherd to have, man, are they noisy and annoying?
And I can't tell you the number of times we're in the middle of
an intimate moment between two people having a conversation
like, you know, with the prophetSamuel or something, where David
(11:30):
is lamenting his struggles in life.
When you just get like also dealing with horses, of course,
a lot of animals, you never knowwhat they're going to do.
We have really well trained animals.
But there are some funny momentswhere horses will just poke
their way right into a shot and stick their face right in front
of the camera. And and yeah, I mean, a lot of
(11:54):
the a lot of the props, you know, we have various versions
of them. So the plastic sword, the rubber
sword, the real sword. And so training with the
different versions of those weapons so that it looks real in
the moment and it's still safe. A lot, a lot of times they just
break in the middle of a shot, you know, And so you just got
like someone hits a sword, it just snaps in half and then you
(12:15):
kind of have to laugh and, and pause and pick it up.
But, and also the fact that we shoot out in the elements.
I mean, we build our sets on theland.
So if it starts pouring rain, you just have to deal with it.
If the wind comes whipping through, we just live with that
and it and it sometimes interrupts scenes in cool ways,
but it also gives us a ton of ofreal great mood.
(12:35):
Yeah, that's authenticity right there.
And at least it's. Not the at.
Least it's not the boom guy that's getting in the shots and
making those noises too. That happens.
Too. If if any of those props go into
auctions, send me the link. I would like to bid on some of
those props because they're really cool stuff.
It's a good idea. We should do that.
Because y'all have done a great job with House of David.
Excited to see more episodes of season 2.
John, thank you so much. It was an extreme pleasure for
(12:56):
sure. My pleasure.
Thanks for having me. It was really great talking to
you.
Well, hello, John. It's great to meet you.
Hi, Sean, good to meet you too. Congrats on like this huge and
epic start to season 2 of House of David.
It has been awesome what I've seen so far and one of the rare
shows that like comes back quickly.
We don't have we don't have to wait that long since season 1.
So thank you for that. Yeah, I'll tell you what it was.
It's been quite an effort to push this out, but we kind of
(00:23):
jumped right into season 2. We were actually shooting season
2 when season 1 aired. And so we all got the like the
satisfaction of like seeing how people were enjoying it while we
were making it. And that was actually a nice
boost because people were just so excited and the response was
beyond what we could have imagined the season 1.
So it was a nice boost while we were struggling through a quick
(00:44):
turn around on Season 2. Yeah, it's been obviously highly
praised for obvious reasons. And the demand is there for more
of this story, and you're delivering it.
Season 2, you know, really dropsus into this Kingdom on the
brink of Saul unraveling, David rising.
How did you want to approach capturing the intensity of this
powership without losing much ofthe personal and human side of
(01:04):
the story? Well, that's the great balance
of this show, honestly, that I feel like, you know, we've,
we've and I, and I think season 2 does it even better than
season 1 because we give a tremendous amount of scope.
You know, there's a lot of there's, there's a lot of high
stakes, right? David stepping into his destiny
is going to come at a great cost.
And that cost means big battle scenes and epic scope, but also
(01:26):
all of the drama within the palace and within the family's
relationships, the love story, the father, daughter, the
brother, you know, the siblings.And so we get a, we get a really
good balance of like complex, powerful drama with these truly
excellent actors. I mean, just extraordinary cast.
And so it's been so exciting having made Season 1 to know how
(01:47):
good these actors really are andto be able to write to their
strengths. And this season is so much more
complex, just within the relationships and so much bigger
with regard to the scope and scale.
So I think if you liked season 1, you're really going to love
season 2. I'm, I'm really proud of it.
Usually, you know, in the first season, everyone's finding their
footing, but I feel like there was like a preseason because
(02:10):
Season 1 was so great and all the actors were on top of it.
So they're just continuing the greatness from Season 1.
And the series brings, you know,the age of iron to life with
warfare and politics evolving quickly.
Can you talk about balancing thehistorical authenticity by
making the the the action actually accessible and
thrilling for modern audience? Yeah, and you know what's cool
about it? Is that the Age of Iron?
(02:32):
Like this was an interesting thing that emerged in the
writers room. We realized our show is set
right at that transition from the Age of bronze to the Age of
Iron. And it's a season of
transformation. It's kind of hard to imagine,
but from a modern perspective that that shift from bronze to
iron, that is a technological evolution that will change the
world. And if you've got iron and your
(02:52):
enemy doesn't, then you have a massive advantage.
And so the power of Goliath sword being an iron sword in
this new technology emerging is a metaphor for David being this
powerful weapon that will changethe world and, and the
transformation of David from from from shepherd to warrior.
He's going to be forged in fire,right?
(03:14):
And so, and, and it comes at great cost and with a lot of
pain, but also some really good drama.
So for a modern audience, what'scool about that is it's just the
specificity of that time period.It's different than a lot of
things we're used to watching. So it's fun to get into the
details of what it was to make iron when no one really knew how
to make it and how it would benefit you and give you an
(03:35):
advantage. How long?
But many other things about thatera that are different, you
know? No, I, I love it and obviously
there's no House of David without David, played by
Michael, who was I? I enjoyed talking to him
previously. He is continuing to be praised
not just for his acting but alsofor his musical talent.
That fans love the singing and playing and we get another taste
of it early in Season 2. Can audiences expect more of
(03:57):
that woven into the story this year?
Definitely. I mean, he's a warrior poet all
the way to the end and so we love to put his voice in the
show. There are new songs coming out
this season. We're also releasing, releasing,
we're also releasing a soundtrack of David's, but it
has AB side that's all of his Psalms.
And so I think people, a lot of people have been asking for that
(04:19):
because he just has an extraordinary voice.
And Kevin Kiner and his team whowrite the the music for the
show, have written lovely melodies for these songs.
And so I'm excited to have some new music this season in the
midst of all the action. Everyone's demanding it.
I see it all night every day. You know, David's known as both
a warrior and a poet and, and, and Michael has truly brought
(04:40):
him to life. And did Michael's, you know,
natural musicality help you increase the side of the poet
and the character on screen? I feel like he brings a lot to
to David, definitely. I mean, he has shaped this role
in such powerful ways. And his voice was the first
piece that the moment we met him, he sang something for us,
sent it to us as a text on our phone.
(05:00):
And we were like, wow. And we brought that to our
composer, and we said we want asmuch of this in the show.
It's even shaped the melodies ofthe score itself.
The quality of his voice, which is so pivotal to how it brought
peace to the King and was transformational to so many
people, has been a real, real gift.
And so, yes, definitely Michael brings a lot to that, and he is
(05:21):
an extraordinary performer. He plays the liar for real.
You know, he learned to play that instrument the way he plays
the guitar. So there are, there are more
times than you might expect where he's singing live on set,
which is very rare. And he's just plucking that
thing, singing that thing, singing these songs live.
And it's beautiful for everybodyon set to hear.
Yeah, everyone continues to praise just not just acting but
(05:44):
his musical talent as well. You've directed both intimate
films and large scale epics. What unique challenges does
House of David present in terms of scales, sets and and special
effects? Yeah.
You know, the, the, the challenge for us is because we
do it so quickly and with less money than a lot of people, you
know, you have to find that balance of prioritizing.
How do we get all of the scope and all the scale and all this
(06:06):
action without sacrificing the drama and the intimate moments?
And I think we, we really do John Irwin and I sort of divide
and conquer a lot in figuring out how to make sure we're
putting enough time into both ofthose things.
And I think we, I mean, we jam these episodes filled with a lot
of both. You'll see this season is
extraordinary. The performances are amazing.
There's a lot of beautiful, quiet, intimate moments.
(06:28):
There's a lot of wonderful unleashed, visceral, dynamic
acting moments. And then there's tons of action
and scope. So we fight hard for that
balance. Yeah, I've already got a taste
of it, and I like what I've seen.
You know, this show does mix, you know, biblical faith with
universal storytelling. But you know, in this world that
we're in today, how do you ensure it resonates with both
(06:49):
faith audiences that you know and those who just might be
coming just for the drama and just for entertainment as well?
I mean, I think it naturally serves both, you know, like, I
guess it's the same way that youcan be someone, you can really
enjoy Lord of the Rings, even ifyou've never read Tolkien, you
know, it's, this is the, in manyways, the origin of the hero's
journey, right? And, and David's character is
(07:10):
the template for, for whether it's Frodo or Luke Skywalker or
Spider Man and Harry Potter, Youknow, I mean, I think we all
recognize the power of the storyof a, of a, of a person plucked
from obscurity with the destiny greater than they imagined.
And so, so I think it's just, it's a very entertaining and
compelling and action-packed show, regardless of whether you
(07:33):
know the source material or believe in the Bible.
And so, but if you do know the material and if you do love the
material, this brings it to lifein a way that should be even
more compelling and, and, and, and, and resonant, you know?
Yeah, the the audience is diverse, 100%.
And for good reason too, becauseyou're hitting all the right
things for everybody that enjoysthe steps of storytelling.
(07:57):
I got to talk about you working with my favorite actors.
You worked with a lot of amazingpeople, but Alan Richardson is
one of my favorites and a lot ofpeople's favorites.
And you know what? What did Alan bring to Ordinary
Angels that surprise you the most?
Or just in general? Like he really, truly stands out
amongst leading men in this industry.
Yeah, he brought so much humanity and vulnerability to
(08:19):
that role. And it was, it was a real great
gift. I mean, I met him, you know,
this was a number of years ago when I first met him and, and
when we cast him in that role, he was doing all this big action
stuff and Reacher, of course. And I, the moment I met him, I
was like, oh, there he's a father, he's a husband.
He's he's really like a big kid,you know, in this massive body,
(08:41):
but also has a great sensitivityand vulnerability and he's very
vocal about his own life and struggles and things.
And so that there is a nuance towhat he's capable of that, you
know, we don't often see when you watch a show like Reacher.
And I think he knew that and waswas excited for the opportunity.
And I just absolutely adore thisman.
(09:01):
I mean, he's an incredible talent.
He's a wonderful man, a great partner to work with.
I'm looking forward to finding aproject to work on again with
him because he's just so, so great.
And he and Hilary Swank togetherin Ordinary Angels.
They were just a power duo, the two of them together.
Yeah, I mean, Hillary is just a force of of on her own.
I mean, she's amazing. And yeah, I hope you and Alan
get to do another project together.
(09:22):
I'd like to see what y'all are able to to do.
And also, you know, you helped bring American Underdog to life,
which I really enjoyed on the Breakable Boy with fantastic
film with Zachary Levi. He's someone that audiences
really associate with charm and hearts as well.
What was it about Zach, you know, that made him for those
types of films and inspirationalstories?
Well, it was great. We actually, we had cast Zach,
(09:43):
an American underdog, right before COVID hit.
And when COVID happened, it shutthat movie down for a while.
And while we were sitting aroundwondering what we were going to
do with our lives, I wrote the adaptation of Unbreakable Boy
and we were like, wow, we're already making a movie with
Zach. He'd kind of be great for this
movie too. And because we were shooting in
the early days of COVID, before there were any real protocols,
(10:03):
we sort of bubbled up in Oklahoma and just decided we
would do both of these movies back-to-back.
So I had written both movies andproduced both of them.
I directed Unbreakable Boy and the Irwin brothers directed
American Underdog. So we kind of just like spent 4
1/2 months in Oklahoma and shot my movie first where we could
figure out all the difficulties of shooting in COVID.
(10:24):
I took all the early bullets on that.
And then and then Zach was training for football.
Well, while we were shooting on Breakable Boy in between takes
on my movie, he was like learning, you know, all the
skills he needed for American Underdog.
And so, and yeah, he he had so many of the attributes needed to
play Kurt Warner. And those same things really
(10:45):
applied nicely in different waysto the the character in in
Unbreakable Boy. So we had a great time together.
I got to see maybe Zach and Alanin a film together somehow.
I think we should also work on that last thing I asked.
You know, filming in a period setting often brings some wild
onset moments. You just never know what's going
to be thrown at you. Do you have any like only on the
(11:08):
House of David's stories? Maybe something with costumes,
weather, or unplanned prop that created the Memorial Day.
Yeah, the the great question. I mean, first of all, you have
no idea. As as sweet as the sheep are for
a shepherd to have, man, are they noisy and annoying?
And I can't tell you the number of times we're in the middle of
an intimate moment between two people having a conversation
like, you know, with the prophetSamuel or something, where David
(11:30):
is lamenting his struggles in life.
When you just get like also dealing with horses, of course,
a lot of animals, you never knowwhat they're going to do.
We have really well trained animals.
But there are some funny momentswhere horses will just poke
their way right into a shot and stick their face right in front
of the camera. And and yeah, I mean, a lot of
(11:54):
the a lot of the props, you know, we have various versions
of them. So the plastic sword, the rubber
sword, the real sword. And so training with the
different versions of those weapons so that it looks real in
the moment and it's still safe. A lot, a lot of times they just
break in the middle of a shot, you know, And so you just got
like someone hits a sword, it just snaps in half and then you
(12:15):
kind of have to laugh and, and pause and pick it up.
But, and also the fact that we shoot out in the elements.
I mean, we build our sets on theland.
So if it starts pouring rain, you just have to deal with it.
If the wind comes whipping through, we just live with that
and it and it sometimes interrupts scenes in cool ways,
but it also gives us a ton of ofreal great mood.
(12:35):
Yeah, that's authenticity right there.
And at least it's. Not the at.
Least it's not the boom guy that's getting in the shots and
making those noises too. That happens.
Too. If if any of those props go into
auctions, send me the link. I would like to bid on some of
those props because they're really cool stuff.
It's a good idea. We should do that.
Because y'all have done a great job with House of David.
Excited to see more episodes of season 2.
John, thank you so much. It was an extreme pleasure for
(12:56):
sure. My pleasure.
Thanks for having me. It was really great talking to
you.
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