October 18, 2024 • 59 mins
On the next episode of Neurodivergent Mates, I’ll be joined by Jessica McGann to discuss her experiences growing up with learning difficulties and ADHD. We’ll dive into her personal journey, including what it was like struggling in school, the impact of those challenges, and her path to an ADHD diagnosis.
Jessica will also share her experiences with medication and offer advice for others facing similar challenges.
Tune in to learn more about her story and discover where you can connect with Jessica and her work!
Questions
-Tell us a bit about yourself
-Tell us a bit about your work
-What was it like growing up and struggling in school
-What effect has that had on you
-When were you diagnosed with ADHD?
-What was your experience trying medication?
-What advice would you give to others similar to you?
-Where can people connect with you and your work?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We're live.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Neurodivergent Mates.
(00:27):
My name's Will Wheeler andtoday I've got a special guest
all the way from Toronto inCanada, Jessica McGann, to talk
to us about coming toUnderstanding my Neurodivergence
, Jessica.
What's going on, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh, you know, just wrapped off of a day of work
here in Toronto, it's Fridaynight, so ready to dive into
some fun conversations with youbefore kicking off the weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What are you doing?
So?
Are you going out tonight?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Am I going out?
I'm meeting up with somefriends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Nice, nice, like, are you going somewhere?
Are you going to someone'shouse?
What's the deal?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, we're just meeting up at a friend's house
and chit-chatting Very casual.
I'm definitely not hitting theclubs or the bars like I used to
in my younger years.
Just chill and relax and moresocializing.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's so funny.
As you get older it's like thatis our club Just going to our
mate's house and having a fewdrinks.
Or when you get even older,it's like just sitting at home
and having a few drinks.
Or when you get even older,it's like just sitting at home
and having a drink on your ownis, um, that's equivalent to
that, then you know.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But I have definitely noticed as I get older I'm much
more uh content with being onmy own, like a night in by
myself, just cozied up with amovie like sold, sold it was so
funny, right?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
because, um, I saw, I saw a picture um of someone's
like it's like a meme, and itwas this picture of someone
sleeping and it says my way ofsaving money these days.
And I'm like, yes, true, youknow I should be sleeping more,
you know yes staying in is agreat way to do that.
(02:11):
Yeah, totally, totally, ortrying to find ways to be able
to save money, like watchNetflix or whatever that is, but
we should really get stuck intothis.
So what we'll do just before wedo start, I'll do a little bit
of housekeeping.
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(02:32):
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(02:54):
work we're doing atneurodiversityacademycom.
We'd really appreciate yoursupport.
Also, just a little bit of awarning Some discussions we may
be triggering.
If you need help, please reachout to a loved one or call
emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperience and strategies and if
(03:16):
you have any questions duringthe podcast, please pop it into
the live session which we'recurrently on at the moment, and
if it's a good question, we'll,uh, throw it up.
What do you reckon, jess?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
yeah, happy to take, uh, some answers from the, from
the viewers from the viewers.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Hopefully we get some people through.
Sometimes we do.
We've had some people go.
Man, I'm sitting on a trainlistening to you.
It's morning, wherever we are,and it's like, yeah, cool, you
know, but but awesome stuff, youknow what?
Let's get stuck into this,because this isn't about me,
this is about you.
You know, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
(03:54):
You know you're from Toronto,but let the viewers know a
little bit more about who youare.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I feel like that question is always such a
difficult question and as youget older, it's like my
personality and who I am and howI define myself is just ever
changing and evolving, but onlike a on a surface, basic level
.
For the purposes of this, I'm acoach.
I work with creativeprofessionals who are in film
and television on stressmanagement and their own mental
(04:23):
well-being while working in sucha crazy industry.
Um, I'm a tv producer myself.
I work in unscripted umtelevision, so that's
competition series.
You might have seen some ofthem, like all-around champion
blown away, uh, big brothercanada.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Currently I'm doing a discovery show, so that's
really fun so are these likereality tv shows type of thing,
so unscripted?
Is that what you mean byunscripted?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
yes, unscripted meaning uh, reality shows.
But I'd like to clarify foranyone watching I don't do, I've
never done a reality uh showlike um or something, something
that's like personality basedwhere, or like housewives, where
it's about relationships.
The shows I produce are more socompetition based where there's
like personality based or likeHousewives, where it's about
relationships.
The shows I produce are more socompetition based where there's
like stakes built in.
So Can I ask?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
can I ask with those right?
So I had a friend of mine whowas doing the Big Brother here
in Australia right.
Yeah, and he was saying thatwhat you do see on TV is
completely different to what'sactually going on.
So sometimes producers may tryand get certain things started,
(05:33):
but they may film certain partsand then they'll use that part
to look as if it's somethingdifferent.
Is that correct?
Like, say, for example, wemight see someone have an
argument, but it's really gotnothing to do with what they're
what they're framing it as show,if that makes sense I'm sure
(05:54):
that does take place, like Iknow that has happened.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
But I don't think it's applicable to the type of
shows that I work on, in thesense that there is built in
stakes.
People are in a competition,typically in my world, aiming to
achieve something or winsomething.
Those stakes are already high.
We don't really need tofabricate drama in those areas.
But for those personality showsthey'll do something called a
(06:20):
Franken edits where they willsplice things.
They'll take things as small aswhat and cut it into other
pieces, so that would be calledfrankenediting.
But things like big brother,canada or competition shows,
oftentimes that's not evennecessary.
The drama is real, it'shappening and nothing needs to
(06:42):
be fabricated because the stakesare actually there does that
make it easier for you?
You know for my um morality.
I think it does like I don'tknow if I could produce a show
that is preying on people'smental unwellness or um pain to
create drama.
(07:02):
I like producing shows whereit's there, like I don't need to
manipulate people.
I'd rather support people onthe journey than try and yeah,
do you.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Do you guys have um?
So we have a show here inaustralia called married at
first sight.
Oh yeah, do you have that?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
we don't have that show, but I've watched your show
of it.
Oh really, it's wild, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever watched.
It's such good rubbish yeah butyou could just like tell that
the producers have gone in thereand said look what we want to
do.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
We want to make some drama, so we want this to happen
and we want this, and it justseems so fake uh, sometimes if a
show is overly produced you cantell that's where you get, like
the ick, when you feel like Ifound um love island, usa this
past season.
(08:00):
It was so fascinating to watchas an audience because there was
so much drama, but you couldtell that those producers were
working their butts off tocreate that drama with how they
were producing thosecompetitions, how they were
producing those conversations orthose dates.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It was really aggressive producing and from my
point of view at least, wow,and would you say like with, say
, your coaching and all of that?
We say some of these producers,it is high stake type of work
because you've got to producenumbers, so it's stressful,
there's so much money involved,there's so much stress and
(08:39):
pressure involved.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I mean, in most film and tv workers are freelancers
to start and the industry hasjust not been doing its best.
It's really struggling rightnow.
So a lot of people are feelingextensive amounts of time
unemployed, financial stress,but then also when you're on a
show and the deadlines are tightand the money is high, there's
(09:02):
just a lot of pressure.
So I really struggled withnavigating it when I first
entered and so teaching peoplethe skills that I learned that
have made this industry so muchmore sustainable just from these
life skills, is just one of mypassions for sure, yeah, I think
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And you know, you know I I often think about, say,
child stars.
You know these kids are cominginto this industry and we often
see these child stars reallystruggling later in life, type
of thing, because you know whatis in place for these people.
It just seems to be money,money, money.
(09:43):
Yeah, no, you don't work forthis anymore.
See you later, type of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But it's also you know who's supporting them,
who's there to be by their sidesand take care of them.
And, yeah, they're put into anadult workspace at such a young
age.
And then if you're on cameraand you're getting the judgments
and opinions of strangers fromall over the world, that's going
to affect you for sure.
I mean, most recently we saw Ithink his name was Liam from one
(10:07):
direction just recently.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, I was actually about to mention that,
you know addiction and stresslike they're prevalent in these
industries.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
If we do not have coping mechanisms that we can
lean on that are healthy, wewill lean to those unhealthy
skills like drugs and alcohols,because they numb us, they make
us feel better immediately.
So a lot of film and TV workersare very susceptible to that
path because you need quickfixes, because oftentimes your
days are long, your recoverytime is short and the pressure
is surmountable.
(10:40):
So those are really easy thingsand that's kind of what I have
no idea about this younggentleman's life or pressures or
anything.
But it sounds like there weredrugs and alcohol involved in
this event and I can onlyimagine the mental space.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, well, it's interesting we're talking about
this because he's actually hewas adhd as well.
So you know, yeah, so there's aa lot of who knows.
Was he still on it?
You know from what?
From what I've heard and Idon't know the full picture, but
like, I think he was veryheavily intoxicated on something
(11:14):
.
I don't know if that's sometype of drugs.
So if you're on certain ADHDmedication and mixing it with a
whole bunch of other stuff, witha whole bunch of other things
going on as well, it's a recipefor disaster, right there.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh see, well, I know we'll probably get to this later
, but I just recently startedADHD medicine and I have no like
is it bad to mix it withalcohol or drugs?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Oh, I have no idea.
Yeah, I don't need look, look,I think there's probably
something.
And look, obviously I'm noexpert on this, but I think
that's definitely somethingyou'd need to talk to your
doctor about, totally, um, youknow, and say that they'll
probably say, within moderation,um, but you know it's different
(12:01):
because it's not like anantibiotic, it's a long-term
kind of medicine.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Wasn't flagged me, but um, it's actually well,
we'll get to it later, but uhyeah yeah, yeah, no, that it is
interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It is interesting.
But um, I was gonna say, um,tell us a little bit about the
work you do, but you've alreadysort of spoken about it, so I
don don't think we'll go intothat.
But you know, like we said, youknow, when I reached out to you
I said, hey, look, what do youwant to talk about?
And you said, a big thing youwant to talk about is, you know,
(12:36):
especially your strugglesthrough school, all of that type
of stuff.
So what was it like growing upand struggling in school?
So did you want to share withthe audience, like maybe some?
So obviously your your ADHD andthere was some learning
difficulties on top of that aswell.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So I was diagnosed earlier on in my life.
My parents my father's a socialworker, my mother is just
brilliant in her own right andso they were very proactive
about getting me and my brothertested when we were younger, and
so, around 12, I was diagnosedwith a variety of learning
difficulties, which basically,in summary I have trouble
(13:17):
processing information.
It takes me about double tothree times the amount of time
of a normal person to understandinformation, especially if it's
written.
It's really hard for me toprocess and I have short-term
memory issues, so quick littlethings I can often not retain.
And I was diagnosed with ADHD,and so what this meant for me in
(13:41):
school was I was put into kindof like a special ed type of
class where I got someadditional support and the
teachers that I worked with alsohad a connection to that
information.
And I was bullied severelygrowing up, like I almost
dropped out of high school.
(14:02):
I was bullied extensively inelementary school, I think,
because I had so much energy andyou know that ADHD like just
constantly jumping aroundtalking about a million
different things.
Shut up, jessica, you're tooloud your energy is too high,
just overwhelming um to mostpeople.
(14:23):
But then this was before.
I feel like now ourconversations around mental
health and mental well being aremore progressive and we're
we're talking about going totherapy and how we can support
each other.
And at that time, when I was inhigh school I'm 34 now, so this
is like 15 years ago or so I,my teachers, were intolerant to
it.
They were impatient with it,and I actually had a teacher in
(14:47):
science.
I believe it's grade nine or 10.
It was day one of the class andhe put his hand on my desk and
he said you don't belong in myclass and for so long.
You know, my diagnosis meantthat I should take.
In Canada there's applied andacademic.
Applied gets you to college,academic gets you to university,
and I wanted, I wanted to go touniversity.
(15:09):
I wanted that option.
So I was taking academicclasses, and so this science
teacher was like you need to godown to applied and I was like
I'm going to university, I don'tcare if this is hard, I'm doing
it.
And he was.
He treated me so poorly that Iended up having to like bring
him to the principal's officewith the support of my special
ed teachers and it was like awhole thing.
(15:30):
But I felt like so much of theadults that I was looking to to
support or guide me in, uh, howdifferently my brain worked and
how differently I needed tolearn things and they just
didn't have that capacity.
And how differently I needed tolearn things and they just
didn't have that capacity.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's funny that you share that because you know I
had similar experiences.
Not that I was like, yeah, I'mgoing to uni.
I knew I wasn't going to getinto uni.
I probably could now.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I would like to mention that I did pass all my
academic classes and I got inearly acceptance to my first
choice university.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
There you go.
Congratulations, but I go.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Congratulations.
I did it, screw, I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, no, that's awesome, you know.
But I think you know, lookingback at you know my experience
and hearing your experience aswell so interesting that it's
like it's not just an Australianthing, it's a it happens
worldwide.
I sometimes feel that whenthere's people like us who, yeah
, we learn differently, yeah,there might be a little bit more
work involved, it's like we'rea pain in the ass to these
(16:32):
people because they have to putit's burdening them to go away
from what they normally do todoing these little extra things
to help people like us.
But it's like, dude, that'syour job.
You know what I mean and I feelfor teachers.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Like they do have an incredibly difficult job their
classroom sizes are huge andthey have to be able to care for
the variety of students thatare within their care.
But I think just in general, Iused to make it mean that
something was wrong with me when, when really we need to
recognize that the world and oursystems were built and
developed to support kind of onetype of person and one kind of
(17:12):
mind, and when you don't fitinto that picture, then it's
really difficult for you.
You meet someone who has aphysical disability and they
will tell you how much the worldwas not designed for them.
But it's not their fault.
It's just that our systems areoutdated and they're not to meet
the standards of everybody andwe just need to continue to try
(17:33):
and understand other people'sexperiences and evolve our
systems into one that is goingto be more inclusive to the
variety of minds and bodies thatexist in this world.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because
when I was in school I had someteachers who were great and I
did really well in those classes.
So it's almost like.
But it was so funny becausesome of those teachers were
frowned upon by other teachersbecause of their teaching styles
(18:03):
and all of that, and it waslike I don't know if it was
because those teachers weremaking the other ones look bad,
I don't know.
But when I did have a goodteacher who would, I suppose,
respect me and I gave them thesame respect.
But you know, there wassometimes where I'd be with some
teachers who really respectedme and I would misbehave and
(18:27):
they'd be like look well, canyou stay back?
It's like well, what are youdoing?
Like you know what.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I mean, Don't give me such a hard time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And they're just sort of like yeah, I can't be bad
with this person because they'recool, you know so A good
teacher can make a world of adifference.
Oh, it, it does, it does, andyou know what right?
I think that flows well in.
Yeah, to this next part here.
So you know what effect hasthat had on you?
(18:59):
So, maybe your experience atschool, there, with your
teachers and being bullied bypeople how has that affected you
?
But you know, maybe that'saffected you in a positive way.
Now that you're able to lookbeyond that, you're able to get
into university.
You've got a really, reallyinteresting job, you know.
So how has that affected you towhere you are now?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
A couple of things I want to say in that regard, and
and one is that I embrace myADHD.
Now I think it is one of thegreatest gifts that I have for a
variety of ways, but the thingthat I think really stuck with
me and what really affected meof growing up with that is I
(19:45):
felt that I was stupid for verymuch of my life and I genuinely
I think I've only been able toshift that within the past like
four months genuinely, in thepast four months, I finally
started to believe that I'mactually smart, but for the
longest time I just saw myselfas stupid and it was a very
(20:06):
strong narrative that I was fed,and it was really from that
early age, beginning of.
You know, I struggled withspelling, so kids at school call
me things like JesseMcCantspell or you know teachers
telling me that I'm too dumb tobe in their classes and I need
to be taking applied classes,and I, you know you can't go to
university.
You know I just felt like, ormy energy was so high and I need
to be taking applied classesand I, you know you can't go to
(20:26):
university.
You know, I just felt like, ormy energy was so high and I'm
such a bubbly and positiveperson.
I have so much joy with me thatI think people perceive that as
naivety or stupidity, when itwas just joy and I really
carried those narratives with mefor such a long time.
They were very deep, lean grainwith me and I'm I'm really
(20:50):
grateful that through all mywork and consistency of showing
up for myself and doing thingslike oh you, you want me to take
apply classes because that'swhat the paperwork says.
No, I'm going to do this, I'mgoing to do this for me and I
don't care if it's harder.
And I'm grateful that I've hadthat tenacity throughout my life
, even with this narrative.
But I think, yeah, yeah, thatstory of telling myself I'm
stupid has been one of myhardest hurdles to overcome and
I'm grateful that I yeah, no,it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I think it was.
You know, for me growing up itwas.
It was weird because like, yeah, I was struggling in school,
failing big time, but when I wasdoing other stuff, like some
sports or art or whatever, I wasexcelling, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, even with our school game.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, and I think as well, and I always was like and
it's been really funny because,you know, because I was
struggling in school, I doubtedmyself a lot, and it's been
really funny because, you know,I, because I was struggling in
school, I had I doubted myself alot and it's really funny.
I speak to a lot of people that, or a lot of people I used to
go to school with, listen to thepodcast, and they get in
(21:56):
contact with me and they're likeoh well, um man, um, it's so
strange that you didn't havemuch confidence in school,
because I didn't see you likethat at all.
I thought you were like thecool, popular guy.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And for me.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I was like what.
That's not what I was thinking.
But you know, I think now thatI look at that those are skills
right, because I see them asskills, and especially now going
into business, buildingconnections, putting myself out
there, I'm noticing that thoseare key skills that I've always
(22:33):
had and just come naturally typeof thing.
So it's sort of, you know, backthen I was sort of like it was
more confusing because I did seethis really great side to
myself, but then I was sort oflike it was more confusing
because I did see this reallygreat side to myself, but then I
was failing miserably.
And it's sort of like now Ilook at it like, oh wow, I have
these great skills and yeah, Ifailed miserably here, but I
(22:57):
don't know, it was just reallyconfusing for me back in the day
.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It's interesting that you mentioned kind of people
observing you as this outgoingvibrant, confident person, when
you didn't necessarily feel thatyourself, because I think there
is.
There's something about that h,that hyperactivity, where we
can be so open um and not see itin the same way that other
people do.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So it doesn't feel vulnerable in a sense, it just
feels very natural well, Ididn't know, I was like adhd
until like a few years ago, soit was like yeah, yeah, totally,
and it was just.
I suppose it was a bit of agame changer when I realized it,
but it was a bit of an ahamoment, if that makes sense as
(23:43):
well hey out of curiosity out ofcuriosity, right?
yeah, you said that it's onlybeen the last I don't know a
couple of years or months orsomething like that that you
don't feel the way you used tofeel, like you said, you felt
stupid or whatever.
What, what, what was the, thechange or what?
(24:06):
What was that trigger that madeyou go?
Actually, you know what?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I am pretty awesome um, I have been doing a lot of
mental health work over the pastcouple of years.
So, I've been in 2021,.
I went back to school and got adiploma in life's coaching
where I learned a lot of likereframing thoughts and stress
(24:34):
management and, most, nervoussystem regulation, and that you
you know, has been great.
But it wasn't until this yearwhen, honestly, my whole world
kind of collapsed in on itselfin january, separated with my
from my partner of four years, Ilost my home, I lost my dog, I
had to move into a whole newapartment.
I was unemployed for six monthsLike it felt so much like the
(24:57):
world was just jumbling againstme.
And it called upon me to showthe F up.
Like I either could sit in mymisery and go woe is me or I
could believe in myself and andand trust in myself and show the
F up.
And how I showed up for myselfin that moment and through the
(25:21):
work, I got hired on a job thathas me producing at a level that
I've never done before and I'mexcelling at it and it's just
kind of now landed at me throughcoming overcoming that
difficult moment and I think,with a mix of those skills, that
I'm finally like I'm amazing.
I'm actually.
I'm amazing Like that, justthrough realization of like
(25:45):
people were wrong, I am smart.
And it might not be smart Like Ican do math and I can do
science, but I can connect withpeople and I can tell stories
and I can I can reach out to abillion people and I can receive
a bunch of no's and that's notgoing to stop me and people
disbelieving in me is not goingto prevent me from showing up
(26:06):
for myself.
And as I continue to coach andI continue to work with other
people on their mental wellbeing, I'm really starting to
understand how a lot of peopledo not have those skills and
that's intelligence.
Emotional intelligence is validand it's important and it's
it's a skill and an intelligencethat is valued.
(26:28):
Yeah, yeah, totally yeah yeah,totally it's.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's and yeah, it's something you can't go and be
taught.
Do you know what I mean?
It's almost like it's a natural, I think, some of our
personalities and the way thatwe can connect a lot of the time
.
And it's really funny when Imeet a lot of ADHDers who may
not even know that they're ADHDor or whatever.
(26:54):
I'll meet them and I'll be likepretty sure this person's ADHD
just through the way they'reable to connect and things like
that.
So it's interesting how it sortof evolves there.
If that makes sense, you know,really.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, though I would push back.
I would argue with you thatemotional intelligence can be
taught, but I think for othersit comes naturally.
But they are skills and how welisten and how we empathize and
like.
Those are skills you can learn.
So if anyone is listening andmaybe you don't present as
neurodivergent or you feel likeyou lack in those skills, I do
believe they are things that youcan learn in practice, just
(27:36):
like if I really wanted to domath, I could learn it.
It's gonna be harder for mebecause I don't naturally have
that brain, but I could learn itand I don't think it could be
harder for others, but you canlearn it I don't think I could
be asked learning math now.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like seriously, like
, seriously, like I honestly Idon't know what it was like over
in Canada, but like doing stufflike Pi or long division.
You know, I could not tell youthe last time I've needed to use
(28:13):
long division.
No Like, where the hell do youuse that shit?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
you know what I mean.
Those are for the scientists,those are for the mathematicians
.
You guys, take it away, teachme how.
Why are we not teaching me howto do taxes?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
that's what I want.
Yeah, yeah, totally, you know,I reckon this day and age they
should even have like um inschools, like um uh running your
uh, your own business coursesyou know, learning about, yeah,
learning about certain programsthat you would be using if
(28:48):
you're running a business,because especially, say, a lot
of neurodivergent people umcould go into a.
We often see it a lot, a lot ofneurodivergent people running
their own businesses.
It could be that you become acarpenter, so you need to start.
You know what I mean.
Or you're a plumber, or you'rewhatever you know, but we do see
(29:10):
a lot of people in those typesof things.
It's like you know, andprobably if they had have had
that, I I probably would havedone a little course, like it
would have been interesting tome that you know talking about
networking and all of that.
Why aren't schools doing that?
So maybe some schools do,because I know here in Australia
that some of them do likecertificates.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, so they're able to get like a Certificate 3 in
business or 2 in business or twoin business or whatever like
that.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I'm not sure what happens over in canada well, I
mean, I don't have any kids andit's been a while since I've
been in school so I don't knowhow much the programs have
developed.
But yeah, I mean, I don't eventhink I knew that starting my
own business was even an optionwhen I was you know in high
school.
So even to have that seedplanted at that time would be, I
think, a beautiful uhcontribution for schools.
(30:02):
And then also like grantwriting teaching people how to
write a grant and apply formoney and funds and
understanding like you can getsupport in starting those
businesses in that kind of way.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, that's sort of a fun type of way of.
Really.
I would be.
I would have been interested inthat type of, and especially
with like technology, like andthis is the thing technology is
the game changer for for me,from what I've found, you know,
the tech that's around todayjust wasn't there when I was a
(30:32):
kid oh my gosh, I didn't have,like uh, we didn't, I didn't
have uh social media oh no, thatwas only call and text.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That was it.
That was like.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, we well, the thing that our my phone.
So I was in the era wherephones became like accessible
for everyone.
You know, I remember back whenI was very young my dad would
have like a car phone and youcould take it out of the car and
(31:01):
put it into like a bag and thenwalk around the streets on like
a phone type of thing.
And then you got like the, butthose were expensive.
That was like I think likethousands of dollars for that
phone, right.
And then you would get like thebig bricks.
They were quite expensive.
And then you got the smalllittle prepaid things that were
(31:23):
cheap as everyone had phonesthen.
But then you could play Snake.
Remember Snake?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Oh yeah, the little games you could play.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What did your dad do for work?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
What did your father do for work?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Well, he owned his own business.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I saw an interesting video about you know
, everyone these days is just sostressed.
We're so high strung, we'refeeling burnt out, we're feeling
exhausted, and I think a lot ofthat has to do with now.
We have people, are so easy toaccess us, we have these phones
that are on us at all time.
Work can ping you with a bunchof emails, they can call you.
(32:02):
There's not as much escape andin comparison to when your
father had those phones back inthe day when you left work, it
was like you were done.
There was no reaching you.
Afterwards, it was only thepeople with the high paying jobs
and those stressful jobs thathad those phones.
Now everyone does.
It doesn't matter if you workat mcdonald's making 12 an hour.
(32:22):
If work wants to reach you likeyou can have that access and
that.
I think that's raising thestress levels because people
feel like they can't turn off.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Uh, they used to well , you know what, like I don't
know know.
So as a kid here in Australia,right so our bikes, right, that
was our transport and the amountof like Ks we did on our bikes
was just unbelievable.
I wish I could do the amount ofKs on a bike these days.
(32:52):
I'd be so fit, right.
But like back in the day, youknow, we didn't have phones, our
parents would be like, hey, momjust going out with yeah,
brandon or whatever, and we'd begone for like the whole day do
you know what I mean when thestreet lights turn on?
yeah, yeah stuff.
Like if you weren't home by acertain time, your mom would
(33:12):
come out like searching for you,right.
But like you know, if you didthat these days, if you said to
your kid, oh yeah, just go out,they did have a phone or
something like that, you'd befreaking out oh yeah, oh yeah,
absolutely you know, crazy times.
Crazy times now.
Um, we will go into.
(33:33):
So I think you sort of said youwere diagnosed when you were
quite young, correct?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I was diagnosed when I was quite young, but my mother
didn't Like, so me and mybrother were tested.
I was diagnosed with learningdifficulties and ADHD, and my
brother was also diagnosed withADHD, but for some reason the
focus on me was my learningdifficulties and the focus on my
brother was his ADHD, and whatwe've come to understand and
learn through further researchis that it just presents
(34:06):
differently in men and women, somy ADHD was not really
supported at that time, whereasmy brother got medication quite
early on because he was the morehyperactive one.
And I've actually just morerecently been working with my
doctor to do another diagnosisand it was interesting because
she reviewed all that paperworkfrom when I was 12.
(34:29):
And then she did someadditional testing with me and I
didn't even know there was two.
There's two different types ofADHD.
Do you know the two types offthe top?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
of your head've got like add so attention deficit
disorder, and then you've got um, uh, what is it called attend
adhd, so hyperactive, and all ofthat yeah, but then you've got
yeah, but then you've got like,um well, you've got one that's
hyper, and then you've got onethat's inattentive.
(34:59):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, she.
She looked at me and she's likeyep, you have ADHD.
In fact, you have both forms.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, you can be that , you can be that.
Yes, yes, yes, and I'm sort oflike how does that work, you
know?
Um, well, how does that workactually?
So, so what?
So, obviously, for me I'm veryon the hyperactive side, but so,
with you being inattentive aswell, how does that work?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
out of curiosity, I don't really know.
I feel like I don't even fullyunderstand it myself, but I
think it would just be normalfor you, it would just be normal
.
My hyperactivity, I felt like,was more contained to my mind,
in the sense that my thoughtswere nonstop, they would just
constantly be rushing and going,and it was really hard for me
(35:53):
to slow my mind down, um, andthat led to um, self-medicating
with marijuana, which is, youknow why we see a lot of adhd
people so you're able to just goand buy that from the
dispensers over there.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Now, correct?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
oh, it says.
It says common as a starbuckscoffee shop or a liquor store.
It they are everywhere and isit like?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
because, like, I, like, I remember when I went to
Amsterdam.
It's the same type of thing,right?
What?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
is it?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Have you ever heard of Amsterdam?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh, amsterdam, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know, I found that whenI went there, because it was
controlled and everything, itwas actually a great experience.
It seemed like it wascontrolled and everything.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I think it was actually a great experience.
It seemed like it was yeah,Amsterdam was it.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, and is it the same in Canada, like it's really
controlled and you know you cango in and go?
Hey look, I'm looking for thishere and they're really
intelligent.
People know their stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Super intelligent, really knowledgeable.
Like the displays are like afancy store.
They're really intelligent.
People know they're superintelligent, really
knowledgeable.
Like the displays are like afancy store, like it's.
It's not that hole in the wall.
Grungy like no, everyone islike clean, proper, beautiful
displays.
We've got a variety ofdifferent.
You know ways to smoke it likeit's.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
It's everywhere it's has it sort of has it like um,
because it's like legal therenow and you've probably seen
before it was when it wasillegal and then it's legal now.
What are the changes thatyou've found out of it?
Out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I don't know if I've noticed like a lot of like
changes, but I have noticed thata lot of people have gone.
California sober, I think iswhat they call it, is that
people are actively choosing tosmoke weed rather than drink.
Instead of, like, adding it tothe mix, they're going.
Oh, I would rather, uh, smokeweed than than drink, so maybe
(37:53):
that would be my biggestdifference.
I think it was interesting,because it really became legal
during the pandemic and suddenlythis illegal substance was now
an essential product yeah veryfew things that could be open
and operating during that time,which just goes to show you how
much pain people were in that weneeded the liquor stores and
(38:18):
these weed dispensaries to beopen so that people could cope
with how difficult thesecircumstances were, and I think
there's still people strugglingwith releasing those clutches.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, it was an interesting time, Like I know
here in Australia.
So obviously Australia's got avery big drinking culture.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Oh yeah, Y'all know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in our blood.
Um, you know well, because it'sso hot, we just need to cool
down yeah, you know, just by thebeach.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Of course you need to crack a cold exactly, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
but they actually had to put put limits on how much
alcohol you were buying duringthat part, because people were
just every day going there anddrinking and it was becoming a
real big problem.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
What were the?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
limits.
Oh, I can't remember now.
Maybe it might have been like abottle Now.
Maybe it might have been like abottle, Depending on what you
were buying.
Maybe you were only able to buyone carton of beer, for example
, but what you could probablyhave done is buy one carton of
beer, gone to another bottleshop, brought another one, if
(39:38):
that's really what you wanted todo, Not that I was sitting at
home drinking.
To tell you the truth, it wasdifficult and I was like there
is no way I'm going to sit hereand drink all the time because
my wife, she was on the frontline doing all the testing and
that for COVID and all of that,but I was at home on my own the
(39:58):
whole time.
So it was just like I was on myown own.
So drinking on your own is nota good thing yeah, no, don't
recommend yeah, yeah, totally.
So we sort of went off a littlebit off topic there, but we're
talking about adhd, um, all ofthat out of curiosity, right, um
(40:21):
, and it's really interestingwhen we speak about
relationships and, you know,growing as people, how have you
found that, as you've sort ofdeveloped into an adult and all
of that you know, because Ithink for myself, especially now
I'm being diagnosed, I look ata lot of relationships before I
(40:45):
married my wife, um, and it'ssort of like wow, a lot of the
things that were maybe some ofthe problems, were contributed
to my adhd, if that makes senseinteresting, and so by
relationships you mean romanticrelationships.
Well, it probably could be both.
It could be like friendshipswith you know, like I wouldn't
(41:14):
even say that I've got like lotsof old friends who I still are
in contact with, if that makessense, but it's not to say that
I hate them, no no it might bemore.
I've been following.
It might be more.
Yeah, I might need to change.
I'll be like, okay, well,that's that, I'm gonna go do
this now and maybe I forgetabout them, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, um, it's just interesting when I speak to
other neurodivergent people onthese types of things I do find
it's helpful in relationships tokind of make aware of certain
things that you need, like, forexample, I get distracted really
easily and people could receivethat as, oh, you don't care
(41:56):
when it's it's and you know,just understanding that it's an
impulsive thing that feelsreally difficult to explain.
It's not that I don't care, butI'll just need your patience
and bringing me back in, orunderstanding that if we're in a
crazy environment it's muchharder for me to stay zoned in.
For me, my learningdifficulties, it's hard for me
(42:17):
to retain information too,information too.
So, um, partners, feeling likeI didn't care because I didn't
remember, and you know, relayingthat that it's not an
intentional thing and I ampresent, it's just that I do
struggle to retain certaininformation and can I say on
that right what I've found inthe past?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
exactly similar type of stuff yeah and then when I
say, look, I really struggled.
That almost causes fights, doyou know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
because it's like no, you just don't care that some
people unless you're- 80 for us,then you know we do, yeah, well
, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally youknow, we need people who are
going to be a little bit morepatient, or understanding, or
willing to learn how differentour brains might work and how
they can best support us in thatand there's actually, like
(43:12):
there's so many great liketiktoks and instagrams now that
really focus on adhd inrelationships.
They've got lots of greatadvice for partners of those who
are adhd.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So highly recommend giving that a quick Google or a
swipe through, because there arecertain ways in which to best
love us or understand us and Ithink as well, like if I think
back to some of my pastrelationships when I was with
people and I think they wantedto try to change who I was, you
(43:43):
know, and it's like I just can'tLike my brain is You're not
supposed to.
Yeah, I'm not wired to be ableto focus at dinner if I've got a
million things going on in mybrain.
And it was actually interestingbecause the guest we had on the
(44:05):
podcast last he was actuallytalking about something similar,
where his kids would come homeand he would be, his brain would
just be going a million milesan hour and he'd be staring off
and the kids are talking andthey'd be like Dad, you just
don't care, you're notinterested in what is like.
I actually do care, it's justI'm really trying to.
(44:28):
It's hard for me to focusbecause I'm thinking about this
thing and you're telling me thisthing here but also even just
what you said of just lookingoff.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
I had this conversation, uh, just the other
day with a fellow adhd of howsometimes our best way to listen
is through not looking at you.
Like in school, doodling, likescribbling on sheets of paper,
and we're, we're digesting, likethere's even when I'm watching
tv I'm usually in a coloringbook.
There's that that need to havemy attention in multiple places
(44:58):
in order to best pay attention.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
If that makes sense it's yeah, yeah, it's funny,
right, because, let's say, I putsomething on um netflix or
whatever it is right, and mywife will be like you're not
even watching this, you're onyour phone and I'm like I
actually I actually am watchingit I need this other distraction
to sort of like fill the voidof something's not right here,
(45:25):
if that makes sense yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah absolutely I think,
and I and I think as well, likeyou probably, I gotta admit like
being on my phone is almostlike an addiction for me, but
it's, it's like it fills in.
Yeah, it fills in that time whenI just need that, if that makes
(45:48):
sense.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I totally and this is not to shame you for that,
because I am absolutely guiltyfor it myself but I wonder how
much of our ability to focus foreveryone, even if you are
neurotypical how much ourability to focus is weakening
because of things like, or appslike, tiktok or instagram, where
you can scroll through so much,so you're so quickly that your
(46:11):
need to pay attention is um,isn't as long as it used to be,
so now we're just used to someof these quicker yeah, yeah,
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
It's definitely interesting.
So you know you said a littlebit about this at the beginning.
So what was your experience?
Trying medication?
So try medication.
So you have been on it oryou're not on it.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I've only been on it for three weeks now, so you
weren't even on it when you werelike diagnosed.
No, I wasn't like, like I said,like my brother was the one who
got the medication and it waskind of dismissed.
And when I brought it up laterin life most recently when I was
, because I was just working onmy doc with my doctor from it
and I asked for those papers,those, those tests from my
mother, she's like you have adhd.
(46:55):
I don't remember them everdiagnosing you with that, like I
don't think you have it, andsure enough, it's like literally
all over the paperwork.
You know it just wasn't a focus.
So I'm grateful that my doctorwas open to prescribing me
medicine because it really hasbeen a game changer for myself
and for anyone who's listeningwho might struggle with the idea
(47:18):
of taking medicine to help inthis mind, because I I know for
myself and for a lot of people Ispeak to, there's a stigma of
like feeling like something'sreally wrong if you need to take
medicine to fix that.
But it's really like somepeople need glasses to see and
it doesn't mean they're brokenor wrong, they just need a bit
(47:39):
of help.
And for those of us with ADHD,there's a chemical imbalance in
our mind and this little pieceof medicine just helps keep
everything connected or flowingthe way it needs to be and for
me, what that felt like or whatthat feels like now, is
(47:59):
everything feels so much quieter.
Like I mentioned earlier that Iwas self-medicating with
marijuana for a period of timeand that's because that medicine
would quiet the noise in mybrain and that weed would quiet
the noise I could finally likeshut down, and that's kind of
(48:20):
what this medicine is giving me.
My brain just it's me, it'sthis, my brain just it's calm,
it's quieter.
I can actually focus on onething.
I used to have to stand upduring meetings.
I'd have to get up and walkaround my office multiple times
in a day, like I can't even Idon't even know I'd lose count
(48:41):
of how many times I would justget up, do a walk around the
office and come back to my deskbecause I had that need to move.
Now I can sit at my desk andjust zone in and um.
I can go out for drinks with mygirlfriends and actually focus
on what they're talking about Ihad.
I went out for drinks with myfor my girlfriend's birthday
soon after starting the medicineand I walked away from that bar
(49:03):
being like, oh my god, I wasn'tdistracted at all, I was
present, I was there and it.
It's really helped me immenselyand I'm actually very grateful
to my doctor and the medicinebecause it's it has been a game
changer for me now that'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Do Do you know what?
Right?
It's interesting how you spokeabout it quiet in your brain,
because I've had some friendswho have said it's quiet in my
brain, but I don't like that,and they've actually gotten off
the medication because they werelike they want it to depend and
it can sometimes maybe dependon what the person does for a
(49:42):
job.
You know they said it like tooktheir creativity away, so they
just didn't feel it worked forthem, type of thing, and I think
it is.
There's nothing wrong withbeing on it or not being on it.
I think it's definitely anindividual.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's a personal choice, absolutely.
There's also a variety ofdifferent medications, so if one
doesn't work for you, talkingto your doctor and seeing if
maybe it's because you arebetter suited to a different
version.
What was I also going to sayabout that?
The quieting of the brain?
Oh, this is.
I think.
I'd be curious to know how muchtime they gave to the medicine,
(50:22):
because for my first week onthis medicine and a girlfriend
of mine did it at the same timeas me and stopped immediately
because she didn't like itBecause around that first week
you do feel high.
Like my first week I was on it,I kind of felt like I was
microdosing some kind of drugand I was having this like a bit
of a euphoric.
But I think it's because.
(50:43):
But the chemicals were justkind of getting straight in my
mind.
But now that I've been doing itconsistently for three weeks,
it you, it's like taking avitamin.
there's no high experience itfeels just normal for that first
week it definitely felt like oh, I feel high, I feel in a weird
zone during that and thatstopped my friend from
(51:04):
continuing.
So I've had to like go to herand be like, just dedicate
yourself to one week and justsee, see if you can like it when
the high wears off wow, crazy,crazy, crazy are you on
medication?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
no, no, no.
So I did when I did medication.
So when I got diagnosed, thedoctor was like no, you don't,
you know.
So what happened with me andthis is what the doctor said to
me when she diagnosed me wasthat?
So I'm what they class as twiceexceptional.
I don't know if you've everheard the term before.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I think we might have had this on my podcast.
Yeah, yeah, we might haveactually.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
I think we talked about this on my podcast, but
yes, yeah, yeah, we might haveactually.
And she said, because it was solate when I got diagnosed,
because I even remember when Iwas younger, especially in work,
and that I'd be very bad atlike organising and all of that.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Man, I can do that, no problems now.
And what she said was that whathas happened?
My brain has pretty muchrewired itself with these coping
mechanisms and I'm able to dealwith it without that medication
type of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I still dohave issues with certain things,
(52:19):
but, um, I I'm aware of whatthe triggers are, all of that,
yeah, and so, for example, if Iwas to go to a busy shopping
center, um, I just can't.
I can do it, but it's just veryoverwhelming for me so I try to
go in, you know, periods whereit's not so busy don't get me
(52:41):
wrong.
There might be sometimes whereI do need to go to them in a
busy period, but I'll and.
But I'll deal with the type ofthing.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
So, um, that's what sort of worked for me, um, so,
now I haven't like for knowing,knowing what you need to care
for yourself, you know well yeah, yeah, it's been interesting
because now that I've got thediagnosis, all of that, I'm able
to understand what thosetriggers were.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
And it it has been, it's been like, oh, now I know
why I was feeling this way whenI was doing this um and it's,
it's been a lot better nice,nice.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
I'm happy for you.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, no, no, it is pretty cool, but look, we are
getting towards the end here.
But what advice would you giveto others similar to yourself?
Speaker 1 (53:35):
is shame or a stigma from my friends who who have
ADHD or feeling like something'swrong with them, and I think I
just want to say to anyone whodoes have it that it's kind of
like your superpower, and one ofmy favorite things about it is
(53:59):
that it's really hard for us togive an F about things we don't
care about.
It keeps us out of working jobswe don't care about, in
relationships we don't careabout.
It's like this gift where youjust have to do things that are
joyful to you and I just thinkthat's amazing.
And again what you said, ourability to connect and empathize
(54:22):
is also a gift, and so justensuring that, no matter what
the world tells you you'recapable of, or that you're
stupid or anything, they'rewrong, not like people don't
know you, like you know yourselfand this is a gift and just
know that there's nothing,nothing to be ashamed about.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I've sort of found when now,especially with a lot of the
work I'm doing in this space, um, the amount of people I attract
, um in regards to otherneurodivergent people, um, and
how quickly we have like build afriend, like like this is the
(55:07):
second time I've sort of chattedwith you, jess, and like, but I
feel like I I feel quitecomfortable talking to you and
if I was to go to canada I'msure we could probably.
Maybe we could go to one of thedispensaries oh my god,
dispensary.
So quick we'd go to like trinitybellwitz park and just yeah,
yeah, yeah, we could go to, yeah, we could go to a dispensary,
(55:29):
yeah, yeah, well, you know allright, you know what and I don't
know if it's an adhd thing whenI, when I smoke, weed, right, I
you know.
You see some people and they'relike comatose, like yeah like
that For me.
When I smoke, I'm like you knowwhat I mean.
Not that I smoke heaps of itanymore.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, I have a feeling that you're just a
talker.
In general, I feel like youcould talk to anyone.
You could talk forever and it's.
I know our time is coming closeto an end, but I recently went
on a date with someone who isalso ADHD and it was really
funny getting home afterwardsand reflecting on that date
because we were both ADHD.
So it was like we had 50different conversations but
(56:14):
completed none of them.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
We were just jumping around so much.
Was it a good day.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
It was a good day.
Yeah, it was a good day, we wasa good day.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Oh, we'll have another one.
Oh, okay, cool, cool, cool, allright.
See, that's the thing sometimes, um, you know, when you're
connected with otherneurodivergent people, it's like
you have this connection there,you know, I know, with my wife
erin, I like her and Ineurodivergent.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
well, is she neurodivergent?
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Well, yeah, she's neurodivergent.
She's not ADHD or dyslexicCompletely different.
But it works.
It's like we balance each otherout, type of thing.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Sounds like a perfect marriage.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, it's funny because, like the saying
opposites attract really is true.
Like we are completelydifferent yeah like so, like she
is, she like she'll talk a lotwith me.
But yeah, she's not.
She's not a, she's an introvertand I'm the extrovert if that.
But I can be introverted attimes as well.
(57:17):
It just depends on thesituation, you know.
But you know getting to the.
You know if people want toconnect with you and find out a
little bit more about your work,where can they go to connect
with you?
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Well, please add me on LinkedIn If you're watching
this there.
I would love to connect withyou on a professional level, but
if you want to connect with meelsewhere, I'm very active on
social media.
You can find me atcoachedbyjess on instagram or at
coached by jess on tiktok.
I'm very active on both thoseplatforms and I would love to
(57:51):
hear from you shoot me a dm, saythat you listen to this
interview.
Um, and yeah, that's where youcan find me legend, legend,
legend.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
So you're off foot to go see your mates now, is that
correct?
Speaker 1 (58:02):
yeah, it's like a little girls night catching,
catching up, watch the movies,maybe We'll see.
We always say that, but then wenever stop talking enough to
actually do that.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, yeah, well, you have a few drinks, or something
.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Probably, but I'm more of a gardener these days.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
A gardener.
It's just with the thing ofwater it looks like a cocktail,
like a long island.
What do they call?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
it, yeah, it looks like a cocktail.
Thing no, it's just.
I got this at a girlfriend'sbachelorette party.
It's just like a little waterbottle.
I'm not drinking on the podcast, I promise oh look, you could
have.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
I wouldn't have judged you or anything like we
have.
I've sat here and had somedrink.
Not well, it's it's 11, it'salmost 12 here in Australia
right now.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
I could have had a glass of wine if I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
You could have.
I wouldn't have judged you, butI've sat on here and had some
wines before.
But, jess, thank you so muchfor coming on.
It's been really great toconnect with you.
I wanted to get you on earlier,but just with the time
differences and that it's justbeen really critical.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Your timing is perfect.
I wouldn't have tried themedicine yet, so it honestly all
worked out to be the righttiming Everything happened for a
reason, so thank you so muchfor having me.
It's been a great combo.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
No problem.
No problem.
And for anyone who hasn'talready done so, if you haven't
done so yet, please subscribe,like and follow to all of our
social media platforms.
Check us out on anywhere whereyou check out your podcast.
My name's Will Wheeler and thisis NeuroDivergent Mates.
(59:43):
Till next time you.
We're live.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Neurodivergent Mates.
(00:27):
My name's Will Wheeler andtoday I've got a special guest
all the way from Toronto inCanada, Jessica McGann, to talk
to us about coming toUnderstanding my Neurodivergence
, Jessica.
What's going on, my friend?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Oh, you know, just wrapped off of a day of work
here in Toronto, it's Fridaynight, so ready to dive into
some fun conversations with youbefore kicking off the weekend.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What are you doing?
So?
Are you going out tonight?
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Am I going out?
I'm meeting up with somefriends, yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Nice, nice, like, are you going somewhere?
Are you going to someone'shouse?
What's the deal?
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, we're just meeting up at a friend's house
and chit-chatting Very casual.
I'm definitely not hitting theclubs or the bars like I used to
in my younger years.
Just chill and relax and moresocializing.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's so funny.
As you get older it's like thatis our club Just going to our
mate's house and having a fewdrinks.
Or when you get even older,it's like just sitting at home
and having a few drinks.
Or when you get even older,it's like just sitting at home
and having a drink on your ownis, um, that's equivalent to
that, then you know.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
But I have definitely noticed as I get older I'm much
more uh content with being onmy own, like a night in by
myself, just cozied up with amovie like sold, sold it was so
funny, right?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
because, um, I saw, I saw a picture um of someone's
like it's like a meme, and itwas this picture of someone
sleeping and it says my way ofsaving money these days.
And I'm like, yes, true, youknow I should be sleeping more,
you know yes staying in is agreat way to do that.
(02:11):
Yeah, totally, totally, ortrying to find ways to be able
to save money, like watchNetflix or whatever that is, but
we should really get stuck intothis.
So what we'll do just before wedo start, I'll do a little bit
of housekeeping.
So, if you haven't checked usout before, please subscribe,
like and follow to all of oursocial media pages.
(02:32):
We're available on TikTok,facebook, instagram, x, Twitch,
youtube and LinkedIn, and pleasecheck us out at wherever you
listen to your podcastingplatforms.
You can check us out there.
Please subscribe to us, rate theshow.
The more you do, the better forthe algorithm it is.
Also, if you haven't alreadydone so, please check out the
(02:54):
work we're doing atneurodiversityacademycom.
We'd really appreciate yoursupport.
Also, just a little bit of awarning Some discussions we may
be triggering.
If you need help, please reachout to a loved one or call
emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperience and strategies and if
(03:16):
you have any questions duringthe podcast, please pop it into
the live session which we'recurrently on at the moment, and
if it's a good question, we'll,uh, throw it up.
What do you reckon, jess?
Speaker 1 (03:28):
yeah, happy to take, uh, some answers from the, from
the viewers from the viewers.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Hopefully we get some people through.
Sometimes we do.
We've had some people go.
Man, I'm sitting on a trainlistening to you.
It's morning, wherever we are,and it's like, yeah, cool, you
know, but but awesome stuff, youknow what?
Let's get stuck into this,because this isn't about me,
this is about you.
You know, tell us a little bitabout yourself.
(03:54):
You know you're from Toronto,but let the viewers know a
little bit more about who youare.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I feel like that question is always such a
difficult question and as youget older, it's like my
personality and who I am and howI define myself is just ever
changing and evolving, but onlike a on a surface, basic level
.
For the purposes of this, I'm acoach.
I work with creativeprofessionals who are in film
and television on stressmanagement and their own mental
(04:23):
well-being while working in sucha crazy industry.
Um, I'm a tv producer myself.
I work in unscripted umtelevision, so that's
competition series.
You might have seen some ofthem, like all-around champion
blown away, uh, big brothercanada.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Currently I'm doing a discovery show, so that's
really fun so are these likereality tv shows type of thing,
so unscripted?
Is that what you mean byunscripted?
Speaker 1 (04:49):
yes, unscripted meaning uh, reality shows.
But I'd like to clarify foranyone watching I don't do, I've
never done a reality uh showlike um or something, something
that's like personality basedwhere, or like housewives, where
it's about relationships.
The shows I produce are more socompetition based where there's
like personality based or likeHousewives, where it's about
relationships.
The shows I produce are more socompetition based where there's
like stakes built in.
So Can I ask?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
can I ask with those right?
So I had a friend of mine whowas doing the Big Brother here
in Australia right.
Yeah, and he was saying thatwhat you do see on TV is
completely different to what'sactually going on.
So sometimes producers may tryand get certain things started,
(05:33):
but they may film certain partsand then they'll use that part
to look as if it's somethingdifferent.
Is that correct?
Like, say, for example, wemight see someone have an
argument, but it's really gotnothing to do with what they're
what they're framing it as show,if that makes sense I'm sure
(05:54):
that does take place, like Iknow that has happened.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
But I don't think it's applicable to the type of
shows that I work on, in thesense that there is built in
stakes.
People are in a competition,typically in my world, aiming to
achieve something or winsomething.
Those stakes are already high.
We don't really need tofabricate drama in those areas.
But for those personality showsthey'll do something called a
(06:20):
Franken edits where they willsplice things.
They'll take things as small aswhat and cut it into other
pieces, so that would be calledfrankenediting.
But things like big brother,canada or competition shows,
oftentimes that's not evennecessary.
The drama is real, it'shappening and nothing needs to
(06:42):
be fabricated because the stakesare actually there does that
make it easier for you?
You know for my um morality.
I think it does like I don'tknow if I could produce a show
that is preying on people'smental unwellness or um pain to
create drama.
(07:02):
I like producing shows whereit's there, like I don't need to
manipulate people.
I'd rather support people onthe journey than try and yeah,
do you.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Do you guys have um?
So we have a show here inaustralia called married at
first sight.
Oh yeah, do you have that?
Speaker 1 (07:22):
we don't have that show, but I've watched your show
of it.
Oh really, it's wild, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
It's the biggest load of rubbish I've ever watched.
It's such good rubbish yeah butyou could just like tell that
the producers have gone in thereand said look what we want to
do.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
We want to make some drama, so we want this to happen
and we want this, and it justseems so fake uh, sometimes if a
show is overly produced you cantell that's where you get, like
the ick, when you feel like Ifound um love island, usa this
past season.
(08:00):
It was so fascinating to watchas an audience because there was
so much drama, but you couldtell that those producers were
working their butts off tocreate that drama with how they
were producing thosecompetitions, how they were
producing those conversations orthose dates.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It was really aggressive producing and from my
point of view at least, wow,and would you say like with, say
, your coaching and all of that?
We say some of these producers,it is high stake type of work
because you've got to producenumbers, so it's stressful,
there's so much money involved,there's so much stress and
(08:39):
pressure involved.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
I mean, in most film and tv workers are freelancers
to start and the industry hasjust not been doing its best.
It's really struggling rightnow.
So a lot of people are feelingextensive amounts of time
unemployed, financial stress,but then also when you're on a
show and the deadlines are tightand the money is high, there's
(09:02):
just a lot of pressure.
So I really struggled withnavigating it when I first
entered and so teaching peoplethe skills that I learned that
have made this industry so muchmore sustainable just from these
life skills, is just one of mypassions for sure, yeah, I think
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
And you know, you know I I often think about, say,
child stars.
You know these kids are cominginto this industry and we often
see these child stars reallystruggling later in life, type
of thing, because you know whatis in place for these people.
It just seems to be money,money, money.
(09:43):
Yeah, no, you don't work forthis anymore.
See you later, type of thing.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
But it's also you know who's supporting them,
who's there to be by their sidesand take care of them.
And, yeah, they're put into anadult workspace at such a young
age.
And then if you're on cameraand you're getting the judgments
and opinions of strangers fromall over the world, that's going
to affect you for sure.
I mean, most recently we saw Ithink his name was Liam from one
(10:07):
direction just recently.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Oh yeah, yeah, I was actually about to mention that,
you know addiction and stresslike they're prevalent in these
industries.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
If we do not have coping mechanisms that we can
lean on that are healthy, wewill lean to those unhealthy
skills like drugs and alcohols,because they numb us, they make
us feel better immediately.
So a lot of film and TV workersare very susceptible to that
path because you need quickfixes, because oftentimes your
days are long, your recoverytime is short and the pressure
is surmountable.
(10:40):
So those are really easy thingsand that's kind of what I have
no idea about this younggentleman's life or pressures or
anything.
But it sounds like there weredrugs and alcohol involved in
this event and I can onlyimagine the mental space.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Well, well, it's interesting we're talking about
this because he's actually hewas adhd as well.
So you know, yeah, so there's aa lot of who knows.
Was he still on it?
You know from what?
From what I've heard and Idon't know the full picture, but
like, I think he was veryheavily intoxicated on something
(11:14):
.
I don't know if that's sometype of drugs.
So if you're on certain ADHDmedication and mixing it with a
whole bunch of other stuff, witha whole bunch of other things
going on as well, it's a recipefor disaster, right there.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Oh see, well, I know we'll probably get to this later
, but I just recently startedADHD medicine and I have no like
is it bad to mix it withalcohol or drugs?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Oh, I have no idea.
Yeah, I don't need look, look,I think there's probably
something.
And look, obviously I'm noexpert on this, but I think
that's definitely somethingyou'd need to talk to your
doctor about, totally, um, youknow, and say that they'll
probably say, within moderation,um, but you know it's different
(12:01):
because it's not like anantibiotic, it's a long-term
kind of medicine.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Wasn't flagged me, but um, it's actually well,
we'll get to it later, but uhyeah yeah, yeah, no, that it is
interesting.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
It is interesting.
But um, I was gonna say, um,tell us a little bit about the
work you do, but you've alreadysort of spoken about it, so I
don don't think we'll go intothat.
But you know, like we said, youknow, when I reached out to you
I said, hey, look, what do youwant to talk about?
And you said, a big thing youwant to talk about is, you know,
(12:36):
especially your strugglesthrough school, all of that type
of stuff.
So what was it like growing upand struggling in school?
So did you want to share withthe audience, like maybe some?
So obviously your your ADHD andthere was some learning
difficulties on top of that aswell.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
So I was diagnosed earlier on in my life.
My parents my father's a socialworker, my mother is just
brilliant in her own right andso they were very proactive
about getting me and my brothertested when we were younger, and
so, around 12, I was diagnosedwith a variety of learning
difficulties, which basically,in summary I have trouble
(13:17):
processing information.
It takes me about double tothree times the amount of time
of a normal person to understandinformation, especially if it's
written.
It's really hard for me toprocess and I have short-term
memory issues, so quick littlethings I can often not retain.
And I was diagnosed with ADHD,and so what this meant for me in
(13:41):
school was I was put into kindof like a special ed type of
class where I got someadditional support and the
teachers that I worked with alsohad a connection to that
information.
And I was bullied severelygrowing up, like I almost
dropped out of high school.
(14:02):
I was bullied extensively inelementary school, I think,
because I had so much energy andyou know that ADHD like just
constantly jumping aroundtalking about a million
different things.
Shut up, jessica, you're tooloud your energy is too high,
just overwhelming um to mostpeople.
(14:23):
But then this was before.
I feel like now ourconversations around mental
health and mental well being aremore progressive and we're
we're talking about going totherapy and how we can support
each other.
And at that time, when I was inhigh school I'm 34 now, so this
is like 15 years ago or so I,my teachers, were intolerant to
it.
They were impatient with it,and I actually had a teacher in
(14:47):
science.
I believe it's grade nine or 10.
It was day one of the class andhe put his hand on my desk and
he said you don't belong in myclass and for so long.
You know, my diagnosis meantthat I should take.
In Canada there's applied andacademic.
Applied gets you to college,academic gets you to university,
and I wanted, I wanted to go touniversity.
(15:09):
I wanted that option.
So I was taking academicclasses, and so this science
teacher was like you need to godown to applied and I was like
I'm going to university, I don'tcare if this is hard, I'm doing
it.
And he was.
He treated me so poorly that Iended up having to like bring
him to the principal's officewith the support of my special
ed teachers and it was like awhole thing.
(15:30):
But I felt like so much of theadults that I was looking to to
support or guide me in, uh, howdifferently my brain worked and
how differently I needed tolearn things and they just
didn't have that capacity.
And how differently I needed tolearn things and they just
didn't have that capacity.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
It's funny that you share that because you know I
had similar experiences.
Not that I was like, yeah, I'mgoing to uni.
I knew I wasn't going to getinto uni.
I probably could now.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
I would like to mention that I did pass all my
academic classes and I got inearly acceptance to my first
choice university.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
There you go.
Congratulations, but I go.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
Congratulations.
I did it, screw, I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah, no, that's awesome, you know.
But I think you know, lookingback at you know my experience
and hearing your experience aswell so interesting that it's
like it's not just an Australianthing, it's a it happens
worldwide.
I sometimes feel that whenthere's people like us who, yeah
, we learn differently, yeah,there might be a little bit more
work involved, it's like we'rea pain in the ass to these
(16:32):
people because they have to putit's burdening them to go away
from what they normally do todoing these little extra things
to help people like us.
But it's like, dude, that'syour job.
You know what I mean and I feelfor teachers.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Like they do have an incredibly difficult job their
classroom sizes are huge andthey have to be able to care for
the variety of students thatare within their care.
But I think just in general, Iused to make it mean that
something was wrong with me when, when really we need to
recognize that the world and oursystems were built and
developed to support kind of onetype of person and one kind of
(17:12):
mind, and when you don't fitinto that picture, then it's
really difficult for you.
You meet someone who has aphysical disability and they
will tell you how much the worldwas not designed for them.
But it's not their fault.
It's just that our systems areoutdated and they're not to meet
the standards of everybody andwe just need to continue to try
(17:33):
and understand other people'sexperiences and evolve our
systems into one that is goingto be more inclusive to the
variety of minds and bodies thatexist in this world.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yeah, you know, I think it's interesting because
when I was in school I had someteachers who were great and I
did really well in those classes.
So it's almost like.
But it was so funny becausesome of those teachers were
frowned upon by other teachersbecause of their teaching styles
(18:03):
and all of that, and it waslike I don't know if it was
because those teachers weremaking the other ones look bad,
I don't know.
But when I did have a goodteacher who would, I suppose,
respect me and I gave them thesame respect.
But you know, there wassometimes where I'd be with some
teachers who really respectedme and I would misbehave and
(18:27):
they'd be like look well, canyou stay back?
It's like well, what are youdoing?
Like you know what.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
I mean, Don't give me such a hard time.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
And they're just sort of like yeah, I can't be bad
with this person because they'recool, you know so A good
teacher can make a world of adifference.
Oh, it, it does, it does, andyou know what right?
I think that flows well in.
Yeah, to this next part here.
So you know what effect hasthat had on you?
(18:59):
So, maybe your experience atschool, there, with your
teachers and being bullied bypeople how has that affected you
?
But you know, maybe that'saffected you in a positive way.
Now that you're able to lookbeyond that, you're able to get
into university.
You've got a really, reallyinteresting job, you know.
So how has that affected you towhere you are now?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
A couple of things I want to say in that regard, and
and one is that I embrace myADHD.
Now I think it is one of thegreatest gifts that I have for a
variety of ways, but the thingthat I think really stuck with
me and what really affected meof growing up with that is I
(19:45):
felt that I was stupid for verymuch of my life and I genuinely
I think I've only been able toshift that within the past like
four months genuinely, in thepast four months, I finally
started to believe that I'mactually smart, but for the
longest time I just saw myselfas stupid and it was a very
(20:06):
strong narrative that I was fed,and it was really from that
early age, beginning of.
You know, I struggled withspelling, so kids at school call
me things like JesseMcCantspell or you know teachers
telling me that I'm too dumb tobe in their classes and I need
to be taking applied classes,and I, you know you can't go to
university.
You know I just felt like, ormy energy was so high and I need
to be taking applied classesand I, you know you can't go to
(20:26):
university.
You know, I just felt like, ormy energy was so high and I'm
such a bubbly and positiveperson.
I have so much joy with me thatI think people perceive that as
naivety or stupidity, when itwas just joy and I really
carried those narratives with mefor such a long time.
They were very deep, lean grainwith me and I'm I'm really
(20:50):
grateful that through all mywork and consistency of showing
up for myself and doing thingslike oh you, you want me to take
apply classes because that'swhat the paperwork says.
No, I'm going to do this, I'mgoing to do this for me and I
don't care if it's harder.
And I'm grateful that I've hadthat tenacity throughout my life
, even with this narrative.
But I think, yeah, yeah, thatstory of telling myself I'm
stupid has been one of myhardest hurdles to overcome and
I'm grateful that I yeah, no,it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:13):
I think it was.
You know, for me growing up itwas.
It was weird because like, yeah, I was struggling in school,
failing big time, but when I wasdoing other stuff, like some
sports or art or whatever, I wasexcelling, you know.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
Yeah, even with our school game.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah, and I think as well, and I always was like and
it's been really funny because,you know, because I was
struggling in school, I doubtedmyself a lot, and it's been
really funny because, you know,I, because I was struggling in
school, I had I doubted myself alot and it's really funny.
I speak to a lot of people that, or a lot of people I used to
go to school with, listen to thepodcast, and they get in
(21:56):
contact with me and they're likeoh well, um man, um, it's so
strange that you didn't havemuch confidence in school,
because I didn't see you likethat at all.
I thought you were like thecool, popular guy.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
And for me.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
I was like what.
That's not what I was thinking.
But you know, I think now thatI look at that those are skills
right, because I see them asskills, and especially now going
into business, buildingconnections, putting myself out
there, I'm noticing that thoseare key skills that I've always
(22:33):
had and just come naturally typeof thing.
So it's sort of, you know, backthen I was sort of like it was
more confusing because I did seethis really great side to
myself, but then I was sort oflike it was more confusing
because I did see this reallygreat side to myself, but then I
was failing miserably.
And it's sort of like now Ilook at it like, oh wow, I have
these great skills and yeah, Ifailed miserably here, but I
(22:57):
don't know, it was just reallyconfusing for me back in the day
.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
It's interesting that you mentioned kind of people
observing you as this outgoingvibrant, confident person, when
you didn't necessarily feel thatyourself, because I think there
is.
There's something about that h,that hyperactivity, where we
can be so open um and not see itin the same way that other
people do.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
So it doesn't feel vulnerable in a sense, it just
feels very natural well, Ididn't know, I was like adhd
until like a few years ago, soit was like yeah, yeah, totally,
and it was just.
I suppose it was a bit of agame changer when I realized it,
but it was a bit of an ahamoment, if that makes sense as
(23:43):
well hey out of curiosity out ofcuriosity, right?
yeah, you said that it's onlybeen the last I don't know a
couple of years or months orsomething like that that you
don't feel the way you used tofeel, like you said, you felt
stupid or whatever.
What, what, what was the, thechange or what?
(24:06):
What was that trigger that madeyou go?
Actually, you know what?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
I am pretty awesome um, I have been doing a lot of
mental health work over the pastcouple of years.
So, I've been in 2021,.
I went back to school and got adiploma in life's coaching
where I learned a lot of likereframing thoughts and stress
(24:34):
management and, most, nervoussystem regulation, and that you
you know, has been great.
But it wasn't until this yearwhen, honestly, my whole world
kind of collapsed in on itselfin january, separated with my
from my partner of four years, Ilost my home, I lost my dog, I
had to move into a whole newapartment.
I was unemployed for six monthsLike it felt so much like the
(24:57):
world was just jumbling againstme.
And it called upon me to showthe F up.
Like I either could sit in mymisery and go woe is me or I
could believe in myself and andand trust in myself and show the
F up.
And how I showed up for myselfin that moment and through the
(25:21):
work, I got hired on a job thathas me producing at a level that
I've never done before and I'mexcelling at it and it's just
kind of now landed at me throughcoming overcoming that
difficult moment and I think,with a mix of those skills, that
I'm finally like I'm amazing.
I'm actually.
I'm amazing Like that, justthrough realization of like
(25:45):
people were wrong, I am smart.
And it might not be smart Like Ican do math and I can do
science, but I can connect withpeople and I can tell stories
and I can I can reach out to abillion people and I can receive
a bunch of no's and that's notgoing to stop me and people
disbelieving in me is not goingto prevent me from showing up
(26:06):
for myself.
And as I continue to coach andI continue to work with other
people on their mental wellbeing, I'm really starting to
understand how a lot of peopledo not have those skills and
that's intelligence.
Emotional intelligence is validand it's important and it's
it's a skill and an intelligencethat is valued.
(26:28):
Yeah, yeah, totally yeah yeah,totally it's.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
It's and yeah, it's something you can't go and be
taught.
Do you know what I mean?
It's almost like it's a natural, I think, some of our
personalities and the way thatwe can connect a lot of the time
.
And it's really funny when Imeet a lot of ADHDers who may
not even know that they're ADHDor or whatever.
(26:54):
I'll meet them and I'll be likepretty sure this person's ADHD
just through the way they'reable to connect and things like
that.
So it's interesting how it sortof evolves there.
If that makes sense, you know,really.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Yeah, though I would push back.
I would argue with you thatemotional intelligence can be
taught, but I think for othersit comes naturally.
But they are skills and how welisten and how we empathize and
like.
Those are skills you can learn.
So if anyone is listening andmaybe you don't present as
neurodivergent or you feel likeyou lack in those skills, I do
believe they are things that youcan learn in practice, just
(27:36):
like if I really wanted to domath, I could learn it.
It's gonna be harder for mebecause I don't naturally have
that brain, but I could learn itand I don't think it could be
harder for others, but you canlearn it I don't think I could
be asked learning math now.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like seriously, like
, seriously, like I honestly Idon't know what it was like over
in Canada, but like doing stufflike Pi or long division.
You know, I could not tell youthe last time I've needed to use
(28:13):
long division.
No Like, where the hell do youuse that shit?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
you know what I mean.
Those are for the scientists,those are for the mathematicians
.
You guys, take it away, teachme how.
Why are we not teaching me howto do taxes?
Speaker 2 (28:27):
that's what I want.
Yeah, yeah, totally, you know,I reckon this day and age they
should even have like um inschools, like um uh running your
uh, your own business coursesyou know, learning about, yeah,
learning about certain programsthat you would be using if
(28:48):
you're running a business,because especially, say, a lot
of neurodivergent people umcould go into a.
We often see it a lot, a lot ofneurodivergent people running
their own businesses.
It could be that you become acarpenter, so you need to start.
You know what I mean.
Or you're a plumber, or you'rewhatever you know, but we do see
(29:10):
a lot of people in those typesof things.
It's like you know, andprobably if they had have had
that, I I probably would havedone a little course, like it
would have been interesting tome that you know talking about
networking and all of that.
Why aren't schools doing that?
So maybe some schools do,because I know here in Australia
that some of them do likecertificates.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, so they're able to get like a Certificate 3 in
business or 2 in business or twoin business or whatever like
that.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
I'm not sure what happens over in canada well, I
mean, I don't have any kids andit's been a while since I've
been in school so I don't knowhow much the programs have
developed.
But yeah, I mean, I don't eventhink I knew that starting my
own business was even an optionwhen I was you know in high
school.
So even to have that seedplanted at that time would be, I
think, a beautiful uhcontribution for schools.
(30:02):
And then also like grantwriting teaching people how to
write a grant and apply formoney and funds and
understanding like you can getsupport in starting those
businesses in that kind of way.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, that's sort of a fun type of way of.
Really.
I would be.
I would have been interested inthat type of, and especially
with like technology, like andthis is the thing technology is
the game changer for for me,from what I've found, you know,
the tech that's around todayjust wasn't there when I was a
(30:32):
kid oh my gosh, I didn't have,like uh, we didn't, I didn't
have uh social media oh no, thatwas only call and text.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
That was it.
That was like.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Well, we well, the thing that our my phone.
So I was in the era wherephones became like accessible
for everyone.
You know, I remember back whenI was very young my dad would
have like a car phone and youcould take it out of the car and
(31:01):
put it into like a bag and thenwalk around the streets on like
a phone type of thing.
And then you got like the, butthose were expensive.
That was like I think likethousands of dollars for that
phone, right.
And then you would get like thebig bricks.
They were quite expensive.
And then you got the smalllittle prepaid things that were
(31:23):
cheap as everyone had phonesthen.
But then you could play Snake.
Remember Snake?
Speaker 1 (31:29):
Oh yeah, the little games you could play.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
What did your dad do for work?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
What's that?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
What did your father do for work?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Well, he owned his own business.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yeah, I saw an interesting video about you know
, everyone these days is just sostressed.
We're so high strung, we'refeeling burnt out, we're feeling
exhausted, and I think a lot ofthat has to do with now.
We have people, are so easy toaccess us, we have these phones
that are on us at all time.
Work can ping you with a bunchof emails, they can call you.
(32:02):
There's not as much escape andin comparison to when your
father had those phones back inthe day when you left work, it
was like you were done.
There was no reaching you.
Afterwards, it was only thepeople with the high paying jobs
and those stressful jobs thathad those phones.
Now everyone does.
It doesn't matter if you workat mcdonald's making 12 an hour.
(32:22):
If work wants to reach you likeyou can have that access and
that.
I think that's raising thestress levels because people
feel like they can't turn off.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Uh, they used to well , you know what, like I don't
know know.
So as a kid here in Australia,right so our bikes, right, that
was our transport and the amountof like Ks we did on our bikes
was just unbelievable.
I wish I could do the amount ofKs on a bike these days.
(32:52):
I'd be so fit, right.
But like back in the day, youknow, we didn't have phones, our
parents would be like, hey, momjust going out with yeah,
brandon or whatever, and we'd begone for like the whole day do
you know what I mean when thestreet lights turn on?
yeah, yeah stuff.
Like if you weren't home by acertain time, your mom would
(33:12):
come out like searching for you,right.
But like you know, if you didthat these days, if you said to
your kid, oh yeah, just go out,they did have a phone or
something like that, you'd befreaking out oh yeah, oh yeah,
absolutely you know, crazy times.
Crazy times now.
Um, we will go into.
(33:33):
So I think you sort of said youwere diagnosed when you were
quite young, correct?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I was diagnosed when I was quite young, but my mother
didn't Like, so me and mybrother were tested.
I was diagnosed with learningdifficulties and ADHD, and my
brother was also diagnosed withADHD, but for some reason the
focus on me was my learningdifficulties and the focus on my
brother was his ADHD, and whatwe've come to understand and
learn through further researchis that it just presents
(34:06):
differently in men and women, somy ADHD was not really
supported at that time, whereasmy brother got medication quite
early on because he was the morehyperactive one.
And I've actually just morerecently been working with my
doctor to do another diagnosisand it was interesting because
she reviewed all that paperworkfrom when I was 12.
(34:29):
And then she did someadditional testing with me and I
didn't even know there was two.
There's two different types ofADHD.
Do you know the two types offthe top?
Speaker 2 (34:38):
of your head've got like add so attention deficit
disorder, and then you've got um, uh, what is it called attend
adhd, so hyperactive, and all ofthat yeah, but then you've got
yeah, but then you've got like,um well, you've got one that's
hyper, and then you've got onethat's inattentive.
(34:59):
I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Yeah, she.
She looked at me and she's likeyep, you have ADHD.
In fact, you have both forms.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Yeah, you can be that , you can be that.
Yes, yes, yes, and I'm sort oflike how does that work, you
know?
Um, well, how does that workactually?
So, so what?
So, obviously, for me I'm veryon the hyperactive side, but so,
with you being inattentive aswell, how does that work?
Speaker 1 (35:30):
out of curiosity, I don't really know.
I feel like I don't even fullyunderstand it myself, but I
think it would just be normalfor you, it would just be normal
.
My hyperactivity, I felt like,was more contained to my mind,
in the sense that my thoughtswere nonstop, they would just
constantly be rushing and going,and it was really hard for me
(35:53):
to slow my mind down, um, andthat led to um, self-medicating
with marijuana, which is, youknow why we see a lot of adhd
people so you're able to just goand buy that from the
dispensers over there.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Now, correct?
Speaker 1 (36:07):
oh, it says.
It says common as a starbuckscoffee shop or a liquor store.
It they are everywhere and isit like?
Speaker 2 (36:16):
because, like, I, like, I remember when I went to
Amsterdam.
It's the same type of thing,right?
What?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
is it?
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Have you ever heard of Amsterdam?
Speaker 1 (36:26):
Oh, amsterdam, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, I've been there.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you know, I found that whenI went there, because it was
controlled and everything, itwas actually a great experience.
It seemed like it wascontrolled and everything.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
I think it was actually a great experience.
It seemed like it was yeah,Amsterdam was it.
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Yeah, and is it the same in Canada, like it's really
controlled and you know you cango in and go?
Hey look, I'm looking for thishere and they're really
intelligent.
People know their stuff.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Super intelligent, really knowledgeable.
Like the displays are like afancy store.
They're really intelligent.
People know they're superintelligent, really
knowledgeable.
Like the displays are like afancy store, like it's.
It's not that hole in the wall.
Grungy like no, everyone islike clean, proper, beautiful
displays.
We've got a variety ofdifferent.
You know ways to smoke it likeit's.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
It's everywhere it's has it sort of has it like um,
because it's like legal therenow and you've probably seen
before it was when it wasillegal and then it's legal now.
What are the changes thatyou've found out of it?
Out of curiosity?
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I don't know if I've noticed like a lot of like
changes, but I have noticed thata lot of people have gone.
California sober, I think iswhat they call it, is that
people are actively choosing tosmoke weed rather than drink.
Instead of, like, adding it tothe mix, they're going.
Oh, I would rather, uh, smokeweed than than drink, so maybe
(37:53):
that would be my biggestdifference.
I think it was interesting,because it really became legal
during the pandemic and suddenlythis illegal substance was now
an essential product yeah veryfew things that could be open
and operating during that time,which just goes to show you how
much pain people were in that weneeded the liquor stores and
(38:18):
these weed dispensaries to beopen so that people could cope
with how difficult thesecircumstances were, and I think
there's still people strugglingwith releasing those clutches.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Yeah, it was an interesting time, Like I know
here in Australia.
So obviously Australia's got avery big drinking culture.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
Oh yeah, Y'all know how to do it.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in our blood.
Um, you know well, because it'sso hot, we just need to cool
down yeah, you know, just by thebeach.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Of course you need to crack a cold exactly, exactly,
exactly.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
but they actually had to put put limits on how much
alcohol you were buying duringthat part, because people were
just every day going there anddrinking and it was becoming a
real big problem.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
What were the?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
limits.
Oh, I can't remember now.
Maybe it might have been like abottle Now.
Maybe it might have been like abottle, Depending on what you
were buying.
Maybe you were only able to buyone carton of beer, for example
, but what you could probablyhave done is buy one carton of
beer, gone to another bottleshop, brought another one, if
(39:38):
that's really what you wanted todo, Not that I was sitting at
home drinking.
To tell you the truth, it wasdifficult and I was like there
is no way I'm going to sit hereand drink all the time because
my wife, she was on the frontline doing all the testing and
that for COVID and all of that,but I was at home on my own the
(39:58):
whole time.
So it was just like I was on myown own.
So drinking on your own is nota good thing yeah, no, don't
recommend yeah, yeah, totally.
So we sort of went off a littlebit off topic there, but we're
talking about adhd, um, all ofthat out of curiosity, right, um
(40:21):
, and it's really interestingwhen we speak about
relationships and, you know,growing as people, how have you
found that, as you've sort ofdeveloped into an adult and all
of that you know, because Ithink for myself, especially now
I'm being diagnosed, I look ata lot of relationships before I
(40:45):
married my wife, um, and it'ssort of like wow, a lot of the
things that were maybe some ofthe problems, were contributed
to my adhd, if that makes senseinteresting, and so by
relationships you mean romanticrelationships.
Well, it probably could be both.
It could be like friendshipswith you know, like I wouldn't
(41:14):
even say that I've got like lotsof old friends who I still are
in contact with, if that makessense, but it's not to say that
I hate them, no no it might bemore.
I've been following.
It might be more.
Yeah, I might need to change.
I'll be like, okay, well,that's that, I'm gonna go do
this now and maybe I forgetabout them, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:32):
Yeah, um, it's just interesting when I speak to
other neurodivergent people onthese types of things I do find
it's helpful in relationships tokind of make aware of certain
things that you need, like, forexample, I get distracted really
easily and people could receivethat as, oh, you don't care
(41:56):
when it's it's and you know,just understanding that it's an
impulsive thing that feelsreally difficult to explain.
It's not that I don't care, butI'll just need your patience
and bringing me back in, orunderstanding that if we're in a
crazy environment it's muchharder for me to stay zoned in.
For me, my learningdifficulties, it's hard for me
(42:17):
to retain information too,information too.
So, um, partners, feeling likeI didn't care because I didn't
remember, and you know, relayingthat that it's not an
intentional thing and I ampresent, it's just that I do
struggle to retain certaininformation and can I say on
that right what I've found inthe past?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
exactly similar type of stuff yeah and then when I
say, look, I really struggled.
That almost causes fights, doyou know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (42:50):
because it's like no, you just don't care that some
people unless you're- 80 for us,then you know we do, yeah, well
, yeah, yeah, yeah, totally youknow, we need people who are
going to be a little bit morepatient, or understanding, or
willing to learn how differentour brains might work and how
they can best support us in thatand there's actually, like
(43:12):
there's so many great liketiktoks and instagrams now that
really focus on adhd inrelationships.
They've got lots of greatadvice for partners of those who
are adhd.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
So highly recommend giving that a quick Google or a
swipe through, because there arecertain ways in which to best
love us or understand us and Ithink as well, like if I think
back to some of my pastrelationships when I was with
people and I think they wantedto try to change who I was, you
(43:43):
know, and it's like I just can'tLike my brain is You're not
supposed to.
Yeah, I'm not wired to be ableto focus at dinner if I've got a
million things going on in mybrain.
And it was actually interestingbecause the guest we had on the
(44:05):
podcast last he was actuallytalking about something similar,
where his kids would come homeand he would be, his brain would
just be going a million milesan hour and he'd be staring off
and the kids are talking andthey'd be like Dad, you just
don't care, you're notinterested in what is like.
I actually do care, it's justI'm really trying to.
(44:28):
It's hard for me to focusbecause I'm thinking about this
thing and you're telling me thisthing here but also even just
what you said of just lookingoff.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
I had this conversation, uh, just the other
day with a fellow adhd of howsometimes our best way to listen
is through not looking at you.
Like in school, doodling, likescribbling on sheets of paper,
and we're, we're digesting, likethere's even when I'm watching
tv I'm usually in a coloringbook.
There's that that need to havemy attention in multiple places
(44:58):
in order to best pay attention.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
If that makes sense it's yeah, yeah, it's funny,
right, because, let's say, I putsomething on um netflix or
whatever it is right, and mywife will be like you're not
even watching this, you're onyour phone and I'm like I
actually I actually am watchingit I need this other distraction
to sort of like fill the voidof something's not right here,
(45:25):
if that makes sense yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah absolutely I think,
and I and I think as well, likeyou probably, I gotta admit like
being on my phone is almostlike an addiction for me, but
it's, it's like it fills in.
Yeah, it fills in that time whenI just need that, if that makes
(45:48):
sense.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I totally and this is not to shame you for that,
because I am absolutely guiltyfor it myself but I wonder how
much of our ability to focus foreveryone, even if you are
neurotypical how much ourability to focus is weakening
because of things like, or appslike, tiktok or instagram, where
you can scroll through so much,so you're so quickly that your
(46:11):
need to pay attention is um,isn't as long as it used to be,
so now we're just used to someof these quicker yeah, yeah,
it's interesting.
Speaker 2 (46:22):
It's definitely interesting.
So you know you said a littlebit about this at the beginning.
So what was your experience?
Trying medication?
So try medication.
So you have been on it oryou're not on it.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I've only been on it for three weeks now, so you
weren't even on it when you werelike diagnosed.
No, I wasn't like, like I said,like my brother was the one who
got the medication and it waskind of dismissed.
And when I brought it up laterin life most recently when I was
, because I was just working onmy doc with my doctor from it
and I asked for those papers,those, those tests from my
mother, she's like you have adhd.
(46:55):
I don't remember them everdiagnosing you with that, like I
don't think you have it, andsure enough, it's like literally
all over the paperwork.
You know it just wasn't a focus.
So I'm grateful that my doctorwas open to prescribing me
medicine because it really hasbeen a game changer for myself
and for anyone who's listeningwho might struggle with the idea
(47:18):
of taking medicine to help inthis mind, because I I know for
myself and for a lot of people Ispeak to, there's a stigma of
like feeling like something'sreally wrong if you need to take
medicine to fix that.
But it's really like somepeople need glasses to see and
it doesn't mean they're brokenor wrong, they just need a bit
(47:39):
of help.
And for those of us with ADHD,there's a chemical imbalance in
our mind and this little pieceof medicine just helps keep
everything connected or flowingthe way it needs to be and for
me, what that felt like or whatthat feels like now, is
(47:59):
everything feels so much quieter.
Like I mentioned earlier that Iwas self-medicating with
marijuana for a period of timeand that's because that medicine
would quiet the noise in mybrain and that weed would quiet
the noise I could finally likeshut down, and that's kind of
(48:20):
what this medicine is giving me.
My brain just it's me, it'sthis, my brain just it's calm,
it's quieter.
I can actually focus on onething.
I used to have to stand upduring meetings.
I'd have to get up and walkaround my office multiple times
in a day, like I can't even Idon't even know I'd lose count
(48:41):
of how many times I would justget up, do a walk around the
office and come back to my deskbecause I had that need to move.
Now I can sit at my desk andjust zone in and um.
I can go out for drinks with mygirlfriends and actually focus
on what they're talking about Ihad.
I went out for drinks with myfor my girlfriend's birthday
soon after starting the medicineand I walked away from that bar
(49:03):
being like, oh my god, I wasn'tdistracted at all, I was
present, I was there and it.
It's really helped me immenselyand I'm actually very grateful
to my doctor and the medicinebecause it's it has been a game
changer for me now that'sawesome.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Do Do you know what?
Right?
It's interesting how you spokeabout it quiet in your brain,
because I've had some friendswho have said it's quiet in my
brain, but I don't like that,and they've actually gotten off
the medication because they werelike they want it to depend and
it can sometimes maybe dependon what the person does for a
(49:42):
job.
You know they said it like tooktheir creativity away, so they
just didn't feel it worked forthem, type of thing, and I think
it is.
There's nothing wrong withbeing on it or not being on it.
I think it's definitely anindividual.
Speaker 1 (50:00):
It's a personal choice, absolutely.
There's also a variety ofdifferent medications, so if one
doesn't work for you, talkingto your doctor and seeing if
maybe it's because you arebetter suited to a different
version.
What was I also going to sayabout that?
The quieting of the brain?
Oh, this is.
I think.
I'd be curious to know how muchtime they gave to the medicine,
(50:22):
because for my first week onthis medicine and a girlfriend
of mine did it at the same timeas me and stopped immediately
because she didn't like itBecause around that first week
you do feel high.
Like my first week I was on it,I kind of felt like I was
microdosing some kind of drugand I was having this like a bit
of a euphoric.
But I think it's because.
(50:43):
But the chemicals were justkind of getting straight in my
mind.
But now that I've been doing itconsistently for three weeks,
it you, it's like taking avitamin.
there's no high experience itfeels just normal for that first
week it definitely felt like oh, I feel high, I feel in a weird
zone during that and thatstopped my friend from
(51:04):
continuing.
So I've had to like go to herand be like, just dedicate
yourself to one week and justsee, see if you can like it when
the high wears off wow, crazy,crazy, crazy are you on
medication?
Speaker 2 (51:16):
no, no, no.
So I did when I did medication.
So when I got diagnosed, thedoctor was like no, you don't,
you know.
So what happened with me andthis is what the doctor said to
me when she diagnosed me wasthat?
So I'm what they class as twiceexceptional.
I don't know if you've everheard the term before.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
I think we might have had this on my podcast.
Yeah, yeah, we might haveactually.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
I think we talked about this on my podcast, but
yes, yeah, yeah, we might haveactually.
And she said, because it was solate when I got diagnosed,
because I even remember when Iwas younger, especially in work,
and that I'd be very bad atlike organising and all of that.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Man, I can do that, no problems now.
And what she said was that whathas happened?
My brain has pretty muchrewired itself with these coping
mechanisms and I'm able to dealwith it without that medication
type of thing.
Don't get me wrong, I still dohave issues with certain things,
(52:19):
but, um, I I'm aware of whatthe triggers are, all of that,
yeah, and so, for example, if Iwas to go to a busy shopping
center, um, I just can't.
I can do it, but it's just veryoverwhelming for me so I try to
go in, you know, periods whereit's not so busy don't get me
(52:41):
wrong.
There might be sometimes whereI do need to go to them in a
busy period, but I'll and.
But I'll deal with the type ofthing.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
So, um, that's what sort of worked for me, um, so,
now I haven't like for knowing,knowing what you need to care
for yourself, you know well yeah, yeah, it's been interesting
because now that I've got thediagnosis, all of that, I'm able
to understand what thosetriggers were.
Speaker 2 (53:10):
And it it has been, it's been like, oh, now I know
why I was feeling this way whenI was doing this um and it's,
it's been a lot better nice,nice.
Speaker 1 (53:21):
I'm happy for you.
Speaker 2 (53:22):
Yeah, no, no, it is pretty cool, but look, we are
getting towards the end here.
But what advice would you giveto others similar to yourself?
Speaker 1 (53:35):
is shame or a stigma from my friends who who have
ADHD or feeling like something'swrong with them, and I think I
just want to say to anyone whodoes have it that it's kind of
like your superpower, and one ofmy favorite things about it is
(53:59):
that it's really hard for us togive an F about things we don't
care about.
It keeps us out of working jobswe don't care about, in
relationships we don't careabout.
It's like this gift where youjust have to do things that are
joyful to you and I just thinkthat's amazing.
And again what you said, ourability to connect and empathize
(54:22):
is also a gift, and so justensuring that, no matter what
the world tells you you'recapable of, or that you're
stupid or anything, they'rewrong, not like people don't
know you, like you know yourselfand this is a gift and just
know that there's nothing,nothing to be ashamed about.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Yeah, it's interesting.
I've sort of found when now,especially with a lot of the
work I'm doing in this space, um, the amount of people I attract
, um in regards to otherneurodivergent people, um, and
how quickly we have like build afriend, like like this is the
(55:07):
second time I've sort of chattedwith you, jess, and like, but I
feel like I I feel quitecomfortable talking to you and
if I was to go to canada I'msure we could probably.
Maybe we could go to one of thedispensaries oh my god,
dispensary.
So quick we'd go to like trinitybellwitz park and just yeah,
yeah, yeah, we could go to, yeah, we could go to a dispensary,
(55:29):
yeah, yeah, well, you know allright, you know what and I don't
know if it's an adhd thing whenI, when I smoke, weed, right, I
you know.
You see some people and they'relike comatose, like yeah like
that For me.
When I smoke, I'm like you knowwhat I mean.
Not that I smoke heaps of itanymore.
Speaker 1 (55:50):
Well, I have a feeling that you're just a
talker.
In general, I feel like youcould talk to anyone.
You could talk forever and it's.
I know our time is coming closeto an end, but I recently went
on a date with someone who isalso ADHD and it was really
funny getting home afterwardsand reflecting on that date
because we were both ADHD.
So it was like we had 50different conversations but
(56:14):
completed none of them.
Speaker 2 (56:15):
We were just jumping around so much.
Was it a good day.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
It was a good day.
Yeah, it was a good day, we wasa good day.
Speaker 2 (56:24):
Oh, we'll have another one.
Oh, okay, cool, cool, cool, allright.
See, that's the thing sometimes, um, you know, when you're
connected with otherneurodivergent people, it's like
you have this connection there,you know, I know, with my wife
erin, I like her and Ineurodivergent.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
well, is she neurodivergent?
Speaker 2 (56:42):
Well, yeah, she's neurodivergent.
She's not ADHD or dyslexicCompletely different.
But it works.
It's like we balance each otherout, type of thing.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Sounds like a perfect marriage.
Speaker 2 (56:55):
Yeah, it's funny because, like the saying
opposites attract really is true.
Like we are completelydifferent yeah like so, like she
is, she like she'll talk a lotwith me.
But yeah, she's not.
She's not a, she's an introvertand I'm the extrovert if that.
But I can be introverted attimes as well.
(57:17):
It just depends on thesituation, you know.
But you know getting to the.
You know if people want toconnect with you and find out a
little bit more about your work,where can they go to connect
with you?
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Well, please add me on LinkedIn If you're watching
this there.
I would love to connect withyou on a professional level, but
if you want to connect with meelsewhere, I'm very active on
social media.
You can find me atcoachedbyjess on instagram or at
coached by jess on tiktok.
I'm very active on both thoseplatforms and I would love to
(57:51):
hear from you shoot me a dm, saythat you listen to this
interview.
Um, and yeah, that's where youcan find me legend, legend,
legend.
Speaker 2 (57:59):
So you're off foot to go see your mates now, is that
correct?
Speaker 1 (58:02):
yeah, it's like a little girls night catching,
catching up, watch the movies,maybe We'll see.
We always say that, but then wenever stop talking enough to
actually do that.
Speaker 2 (58:10):
Yeah, yeah, well, you have a few drinks, or something
.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
Probably, but I'm more of a gardener these days.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
A gardener.
It's just with the thing ofwater it looks like a cocktail,
like a long island.
What do they call?
Speaker 1 (58:24):
it, yeah, it looks like a cocktail.
Thing no, it's just.
I got this at a girlfriend'sbachelorette party.
It's just like a little waterbottle.
I'm not drinking on the podcast, I promise oh look, you could
have.
Speaker 2 (58:35):
I wouldn't have judged you or anything like we
have.
I've sat here and had somedrink.
Not well, it's it's 11, it'salmost 12 here in Australia
right now.
Speaker 1 (58:45):
I could have had a glass of wine if I wanted to.
Speaker 2 (58:47):
You could have.
I wouldn't have judged you, butI've sat on here and had some
wines before.
But, jess, thank you so muchfor coming on.
It's been really great toconnect with you.
I wanted to get you on earlier,but just with the time
differences and that it's justbeen really critical.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
Your timing is perfect.
I wouldn't have tried themedicine yet, so it honestly all
worked out to be the righttiming Everything happened for a
reason, so thank you so muchfor having me.
It's been a great combo.
Speaker 2 (59:13):
No problem.
No problem.
And for anyone who hasn'talready done so, if you haven't
done so yet, please subscribe,like and follow to all of our
social media platforms.
Check us out on anywhere whereyou check out your podcast.
My name's Will Wheeler and thisis NeuroDivergent Mates.
(59:43):
Till next time you.
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