September 30, 2024 • 65 mins
This week, we’re joined by special guest Tamsin Jowett to dive into how neurodivergence impacts relationships in midlife! We’ll cover everything from redefining expectations to navigating life changes like menopause, with practical advice for neurodivergent individuals and their loved ones.
Questions
Tell us a bit about yourself?
Tell us a bit about your work?
How has neurodivergence shaped your midlife relationships?
How do neurodivergent adults adjust relationship expectations in midlife?
What support helps neurodivergent adults with midlife relationship issues?
How do menopause or other midlife changes affect neurodivergent relationships?
What advice would you give neurodivergent individuals navigating midlife relationships?
Where can people find and connect with you?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
you're listening to neurodivergent mates.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of NeuroDivergent Mates.
(00:26):
I'm your host, will Wheeler,joined with my main man, photon
John.
What's going on, brother?
Oh, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Beginning of the work week.
I got up this morning thinkingthere'd be work and there wasn't
.
So I did that ADHD thing whereI thought all day about what I
should do and did nothing.
Oh okay, interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh man, my day was actually pretty hectic.
You know, when you know you'vegot a day and you've um, I don't
know, like, it wasn't like Ihad.
He, I did have things planned,but then just stuff started
happening.
People started reaching out.
I needed to quickly emailpeople, so it was very, but it
(01:05):
just seemed to go real.
A lot of stuff happened, ifthat makes sense, so it was
pretty cool.
But no, no, but look for ourlisteners today.
You know, we did have adifferent topic that we weren't
going to cover originally andunfortunately, the guest had to
pull out last minute.
So these things happen in thepodcasting world and you know
(01:29):
it's neurodivergent people yeah,especially live as well.
We, we had to get our creativethinking caps on and we're able
to to reach out to an awesomeperson to, to tell you the truth
, um, I think it's probably abetter topic than the one that
we're going to be coveringanyway, it's still coming on.
Don't say that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know, but I
(01:53):
think it's good, I think it justit just really hit a spot with
me.
So, yeah, I just think you know, I think what I'm more getting
at is the other topic that we'regoing to be talking about.
It wasn't that it's notrelevant.
I think that when you're sortof trying to scramble to get
something happening and then wecame across a really awesome
(02:13):
topic and a person to come joinus, it was like, yes, this is
awesome, it feels good, right,so let's get stuck into this.
So today, what we're going tobe covering is midlife and
neurodivergent relationshipswith Tamsyn Jowett Tamsyn.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
(02:33):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm great, thank you for having me.
No problem at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
No problem at all.
And look, no problem at all.
And look, thank you so much forlike last-minute call-up type
of thing.
And I think, like I was sayingjust previously, like this
morning I woke up I saw that youhad replied to my message, so
it was like all systems go andthen, you know, normally for us,
(03:04):
especially with the podcast, wespend like an afternoon going
through questions like vote onJohn and myself.
So it was a very big scramblebut we made it happen.
So, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh, no, love it, and I love talking about
neurodivergence andparticipating in shows.
You know, your show is great.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, no problem, problem, no problem.
So what we might do just beforewe get started, we'll do our
housekeeping, like we always doso.
For anyone who hasn't checkedthis out before, if you haven't
already done so, pleasesubscribe, like and follow to
all of our social mediaplatforms.
We're available on tiktok,facebook, instagram, x, twitch,
youtube, linkedin.
(03:43):
We're also available on everyplatform where you listen to
your podcast.
Also, if you haven't alreadydone so, please check out the
work that we're doing withneurodiversity academy.
You can check us out atneurodiversityacademycom also
today.
Um, some of the discussions maybe triggering for some.
If you need need help, pleasereach out to a loved one or call
(04:06):
emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperiences and strategies.
Also, if you've got anyquestions, please, while we're
going through the live podcast,put it in the comments on our
social media pages and hopefully, if it's a good comment, we'll
put it up on the on the podcasthere for us to um answer.
(04:28):
All right, well, I did prettywell on that one.
What do you reckon for it onjohn?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
back on form, my friend yeah, man, back in form.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You know what, right, how we say.
Um, some discussions may betriggering.
If you need help, please reachout to a loved one, loved one,
or call emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperiences and strategies.
I was thinking about that.
Sometimes we do have doctors,so I wonder what's going to
happen.
Once we get it, we go.
We are not doctors.
(04:57):
I'll have to say we one personis a doctor.
You know what I mean yeah but,um, I just think it's good that
we cover all of that anyway.
But, tamsin, like I said, thankyou so much for coming on today
.
You know I've known a lot ofthe work that you're doing, but
(05:17):
you know, I think it would bereally great for our audience to
just hear a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, sure, I'm not a doctor, I'm originally a lawyer
.
But I grew up in a family wheremy dad was a GP and he was a
country GP and one of hismantras was Tamsin, there is no
normal, it's a myth.
Just don't think about that.
Everyone is different.
(05:44):
So I just grew up with that,that about that, everyone is
different.
So I just grew up with that,that thought that everyone is
different and that's great, it'sokay.
And he thought it was wonderful.
And, um, I, but I went on,became a lawyer, went into the
corporate world verycorporatized, masked, perfect,
you know that sort of scene.
And then, um, when I was livingin Dubai and I was working for
BP my eldest son we started torealize he was a bit different.
(06:11):
And next thing, we know, ofcourse, you know, you go through
the diagnostic process and allof that.
And so 17 years ago we realizedthat he was autistic.
And it was this whole worldthat opened up for me.
And and of course, there's likeit's like domino effect,
because you look at all yourfamily and everything.
(06:31):
Oh my god, I've lived with thisall my life and this is this me
there, and my husband wasdefinitely as well and then all
the lawyers and other friends ofours, um, and then when I got
back to Australia, it was what,what do I do around this?
What can I do?
And I felt you feel a bithelpless and you know, 17, 18
(06:52):
years ago there wasn't a lot inour space.
There was.
It was early and so I became.
I started volunteering atAsperger's Victoria and then I
became the president ofAsperger's Victoria and I really
loved that sort of way ofempowering people with resources
and providing community and aplace to belong.
(07:13):
That was what I thought wasreally important that place to
connect, where you were safe,you're accepted and for just who
you are.
And so I went on to become.
We got some funding inemployment programs and I became
the CEO at Asperger's Victoriaand in that time, to do my
employment programs, I became anICF coach, and so now I've left
(07:37):
AV and I'm focusing more oncoaching, which is the ICF
standard for coaching.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Nice, nice, nice nice .
That sounds really interesting,I think you know.
Yeah, and I'm, I was.
I'm terrible with math and Iwas trying to figure out what 17
years ago was.
It was 2024 so it would havebeen like early 2000s, about
2005 or 2004,.
(08:05):
2003 type of thing.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Early and of course you know he was diagnosed
aspergers, because that's whatit was then.
You know kind of it was allsegregated and the spectrum
wasn't understood and a lot ofnegativity.
You know people saying, oh, I'msorry to hear that and I'm like
I'm not sorry.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So it was a.
It was quite a negative eraaround all of this yeah, yeah no
, that's why the?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
um, that's why the uh whole vaccines cause autism
thing annoys me, because I'mlike you're talking about this
like it's the worst possiblething that could happen to your
child.
Yeah, no, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
right, funny, funny you say that, right, I think I
did.
I read something or somethingthe other day where they were
talking about autism is causedby plastics being consumed by
the mother, or something I thinkI read.
I think I read something likethat the other day and I'm like
(09:03):
what?
Or there was something wherethey're able to to reverse it,
or something.
I don't know.
I think it's just all this crap.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I'm seeing a lot of research online and some of it's
legitimate research, but a lotof people are going well.
People with autism tend to havethis kind of diet, or people
with autism tend to engage inthis kind of activity, their
parents engaged in this kind ofactivity or their parents
engaged in that kind of activity, and it's like just correlation
.
Like you know, it's fairlysolid now that it's pretty
(09:35):
genetic and people need to becareful.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, it's that deficit mindset about difference
which I think goes right backto the mental health system,
because originally if your childwas diagnosed autistic, often
they would get locked away.
You know it was horrific.
So there was a fear aroundhaving differences, which is
still there to an extent.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So even around that early 2000,.
You had a big fear.
So even around that early 2000,you had a big fear and you know
you spoke about you were alawyer and all of that.
Did you then change yourperspective from how you would
then see things?
Say, what type of law were youinto?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
actually out of curiosity, I was corporate
Pretty boring, but like stilllike.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Was that in relation to workplace law, like how
people would be treated, oranything like that?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, when I look back, I'd always done that.
I'd always been involved in theHR, even as a lawyer.
So it was just who I was wasabout empowering people, I think
.
And I think initially it washaving to adjust, because I'd
heard about autism and I'd heardabout this theory of
refrigerated mothers and thingslike that causing it.
(10:55):
And then I looked at my son andwent no way, you know, he's so
creative.
He had, he sings beautifully,he was amazing school, but he
had trouble making friends andsitting at mat time Is he a
musician.
He is a filmmaker.
Now he's at VCA doing film andloving it, just loving it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, no, that's awesome, that's awesome.
But like I suppose, um, youknow, moving on from that, sorry
, I'll just um, you know, andprobably going a bit more into
about the work that you do, typeof thing, so you know, like you
were saying you were, you wereat, um, Asperger's, victoria,
there, um, you know, especiallyearlys, like, if I remember back
(11:46):
to those days there was, youknow, because I remember in
school there was no way therewas as much stuff as what there
is now.
It's sort of like we still gota long way to go, but back then
there was even nothing really.
(12:07):
So you know, what was it like?
I suppose, starting off aroundthat era there, out of curiosity
, because, if I think about thatera for me, I had full drug and
alcohol addiction, I was offtap, so there's no way I was
(12:30):
thinking, oh, you know, should Ibe doing stuff for
neurodiversity?
So it's interesting to maybehear what was happening around
that era, if that's cool.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, we had Amaze it just changed their name to
amaze.
When I and um, we had um, acouple of small organizations,
but there wasn't a lot ofsupport and there was minimal
understanding in schools.
I found which was.
It was astonishing because whenyou look now you realize at
least a quarter of the kids inevery class are neurodivergent
(13:06):
in some way.
How those kids got through andthey're the ones.
So that's where I am coachingmidlife, because they're the
ones that went through withoutsupport and often some of them
went through and sort of forcedthemselves into a mould and then
get to midlife and have acrisis because suddenly it
really doesn't make sense andanxiety and stress is built up.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Or could you even say that you learn about who you
are.
So now you're like oh my God,now I can take the mask off and
start living my normal life, andyou know.
But every trauma and all ofthat that's happened in the past
starts flooding in becauseyou're like man.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
That was because of this yeah, yeah, it's a whole
process and then, and thenthere's also the um sorry I
think we may have a little laghere um but then there's also
the process of grief that you gothrough We've spoken about that
a couple of times in thepodcast where you sort of look
(14:10):
back and go, wow, you know thesupport that I didn't get, the
way things could have beendifferent.
And you do sort of go throughthat period before you sort of
learn to adjust and accept theway things are and you know and
ultimately feel better becauseyou can move forward with a
better understanding and moretools to equip you to succeed.
But yeah, definitely a process.
(14:30):
Did you have to deal with a bitof that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
A little bit, you know, realising what sort of
schools.
You sort of assume that anyschool would be fine, but then
there were schools that wouldrefuse to have autistic kids,
and there are still some?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
now I mean, like with midlife people.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Do you come across a lot of midlife people who
Definitely people who definitelyit's um, it's a whole hindsight
sort of, it's you looking backacross your whole history and
rewriting it in some ways, andsome of it's fantastic because
you realize there was somethingelse going on and that you
(15:22):
wouldn't, you weren't defective,you were just different and you
did things differently and thatpeople just didn't understand,
whereas now, at least you know,we've done as a community across
Australia, we've done so mucharound building understanding
and neurodivergence and, as yousay, well, we're getting there,
(15:43):
but there's more to go.
But the people who are gettingdiagnosed now are often parents
who are having their kidsdiagnosed much earlier, like
some kids diagnosed beforeschool, which is fabulous, you
know, it's fabulous, and thatchild can then build their
self-understanding as well asthat parent support them better.
And then the parent has thatreal of wow, that's how I was
(16:08):
and you know, school wouldn't doanything for me, um, and then
the parent can open up withright, this, this is how my mind
works.
So I wonder if that helps mychild can see it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
They can.
They've almost lived the um, thelife of the child before the
child has lived it, if thatmakes sense, so they're able to
maybe make better decisionsbased on certain things.
It's almost like I don't havechildren, but, like you know,
and I think back to when I wasin school and I used to get in
(16:42):
trouble for a lot of stuff andI'd be afraid to go home and
tell my mum and dad that I gotin trouble because I thought I'd
get in trouble again, you know,and it was clearly the teacher
was bullying.
And you know, because whenyou're a neurodivergent kid
especially like I was ADHD,didn't even know I was struggled
(17:02):
with everything You're a burdenon the teacher.
So they, a lot of them, don'tlike you, not all of them, some
of them do.
So you know, I think you know,maybe if I was to be a parent
now, I'd be able to see straightthrough that type of stuff and
be like hang on, don't tell methat my son's this, this is a
(17:24):
daughter or whatever it is.
We're able to see it a lotbetter, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think we're getting there.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
There's also.
There would be a lot of issuesjust with the lack of education,
not to denigrate parents at all, but there would be parents who
also didn't understand.
So in some cases those kidsmight have gone home and gotten
in trouble again, because theparents also don't know what's
going on, as well as theteachers.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, and I think that's part of midlife, because
often there's a bit of trauma,because our neurodivergent
community are far more sensitiveto everything, but including
that sort of negativity and thetrauma of the fear of not being
able to tell your parents thingsand not to be yourself.
So then, midlife, that unravelsa lot of the time with hormones
(18:15):
and everything else that comesin.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, totally, but you know, I think it's.
I think it'd be cool to maybeget a little bit more in depth
into this.
So you know, obviously we'rehere to speak about midlife and
neurodivergent relationships,all of that.
So how has neurodivergenceshaped your midlife
relationships?
And I don't know if I've reallyput it that way or just put it
(18:39):
in whatever way you wanted toexplain it, but you know, I
think it might be important tomaybe share what this is, you
know, and maybe how it hasaffected you, if that's what you
want to share, of course yeah,I mean I suppose mine's not a
happy story.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
In some sense, I've learned so much about myself and
about relationships and that'swhy I want to do this coaching,
so I can help and support otherswith this.
There's minimal support forneurodivergent people.
Going through this is what I'verealised.
I'm going through the end ofdivorce and coming out the other
(19:20):
side and I think I'm a muchbetter person for where I am and
what I've learned um, but it'sa hard transition and um I don't
want others to go through this.
So if there's ways, I I youknow I've developed ways I can
support people um neurodivergentfamilies and neurodivergent so
they don't go through the levelof um the experience that I've
(19:44):
been through and hopefully havethat self-awareness and are
pre-ready for how to manage this, because relationships are just
really hard in our space withcommunication differences.
It just sets you up for achallenging relationship if
you're not prepared and if youdon't know what to put in the
(20:05):
work, and I'd say I failed insome ways in that myself putting
in the work.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Was that?
Would you say and share as muchand as little as you like, you
know?
Was that prior to say yourdivorce?
Or after, like especially whenyou and I were on the phone?
We're talking about the shock.
Do you know what I mean?
And Fona and John, you weretalking about like realisation
(20:32):
of certain things.
You know what was that?
Was it?
Do you sort of get to thatshock sort of level and then
you're like, oh my God, now Isee everything that got to this
point, type of thing, or whydidn't I do this?
Or I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
There is yeah, there's a great unravelling, I
think, where you go through therealisation, that shock.
You know, in our communitywe're not great on transitions
and that's like an instanttransition a lot of the time and
having to not just manage itfor yourself, you're managing it
for your neurodivergent family,your kids.
(21:16):
So it's a really tricky processto be going through.
And even if you weren't goingthrough a divorce, relationships
at this stage of life arechallenged, I think, because the
kids are getting older.
It's a different life stage.
They're not as dependent on you.
A lot of them move out of home,like Jack is off at uni and so
(21:42):
and then they probably getgirlfriends or boyfriends or
whatever, and then they'reliving their own life and it
probably happens like sorry, howold is your, your youngest son?
the youngest is 16.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Eldest is 23 oh, okay , but it probably feels like
your 16 year old was only bornnot long ago, correct?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
so all of a sudden, this changes absolutely,
absolutely, it's full-on, it'sum.
So, yeah, I'm doing a cdc, um,it's a globally certified
divorce coaching course.
And if you and I've done atrauma course and, uh, you know,
I'm catching up.
I love learning, as you know,sort of adhd, uh, neurotypic
(22:28):
neurodivergent space um, I'mquite typical in that I love
having another course, um, butyou know, if I can sort of
empower others so they don't gothrough this, that would be
fantastic are you having manypeople reaching out to you about
it actually like, oh my god,yeah, I'm going through this at
the moment?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
or do you get maybe people who are um feeling like
it may be getting to that point,if that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
well, I suppose I've been doing the midlife coaching
even when I was at AV and itwould.
Even then I was coaching peoplein this space, but probably not
from such a lived experiencelens of it all going pear-shaped
in the learning I've got now.
Um, so I've been in that spacefor a while and had people
reaching out just was mainlywork issues and when
(23:20):
relationships impacted work anda bit of you know other
relationships.
So it's been there for a while.
But I think now I've got a newlens that's even more expansive
and a lot more learning that Ican share and support people
with.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Lived experience is the key right.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
It is In our space.
No one else can understand it.
But even then, lived experienceis very individual.
But you still get.
You're more open to hearingother people's experiences and
understanding.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
This is different there's some similarity, yeah
yeah, no, crazy, crazy um.
Out of curiosity, how doneurodivergent adults adjust
relationship expectations inmidlife?
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
um, and if I could just add a little addendum to
this, um, as a 43 year oldneurodivergent man who decided
to stay single nearly nine yearsago now because relationships
were just a lot um yeah how doyou get out of that?
What's it like?
What's it like for you know,I've sort of come to this real
(24:33):
understanding of myself whilesingle and I haven't had a
relationship since.
I've come to understand myselfbetter and I'm very unsure how I
would re-enter that market,especially understanding what
you need.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I think that's actually so critical is that
self-understanding andunderstanding your
neurodivergence, because whenyou come into a relationship, it
becomes a mirror often, youknow.
So you're mirroring to eachother your characteristics and
so it can emphasise parts aboutyourself and you can, you know,
(25:11):
and it's a negotiation, it'salmost a dance.
So there's three things there'syou, you know, and it's a
negotiation, it's almost a dance.
So there's three things there'syou, the other person and the
relationship.
So, but having thatself-understanding, so then you
can communicate, work out whatyou need and how relationships
need to be for you, where yourboundary needs to be, um, where
(25:34):
your stress will be, um.
Sorry if my earpod just droppedout um your love languages, how
you express love which is notjust to someone who's intimate
with you, be generally um, andand and having that emotional
work that you've probably donein the meantime is really
(25:57):
powerful.
I think that's really you knowgood of you to do that.
You know it's sort of likerespecting the other person.
I'm going to come into this asa certain type of person, so
yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I think, you know it's interesting because, let's
say, the, the, the modern datingworld these days is very um,
let's say, it's completelydifferent to say even what it
was 2020.
I'm thinking in the 90s notthat I was, I was only new to
(26:30):
dating back then.
I think I was 18 or somethinglike that.
But you know, and I think Frodoand Jon and myself, you know,
in a way, that was sort of whywe started the podcast, not for
dating, but we'd actually wewere sort of like it was
incredibly hard to find friends.
(26:50):
As neurodivergent people, Ithink we could find friends
quite easy, but like it wasdifficult to find the friends
that met maybe our needs type ofthing, and then we were looking
at it from a relationshipperspective as well.
So you know, I think some ofthe difficulties and Photon,
(27:12):
john, you can chime in if youlike on this as well.
Hang on, just let me finishthis for a second, then you can
chime in.
Right, you know we were sort ofgoing look, there's certain and
like you spoke about it beforeTamsin is that we do have
certain needs and wants.
I suppose that we really, youknow, admire or really want, but
(27:39):
sometimes trying to get thatacross to people right from the
beginning is incrediblydifficult without them thinking
what the hell is this person,this person's weird, you know?
So we were actually looking attrying to develop an app pardon
me sorry where, um, we would beable to be up front with a lot
(28:01):
of those things still in theworks.
All that's probably a long-termproject, but, um, I I think it.
It is so vital at that earlystage of you, you know, creating
a relationship or friendship,which it usually starts off as
because I think that it's theproblems down the track that
(28:23):
that's where people start going.
Well, I didn't sign up for this, I didn't sign up to, you know,
be this and that, if that makessense, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And you will grow and change go and I think will and
I, you know we weren't like we.
We became closer later in ourfriendship, but in the beginning
we would just see each otheraround because will was, um,
covering bands and doinginterviews and stuff and I was
playing around and um, but uh,just our friendship in the
(28:52):
beginning was just like, fromacross the room we just played,
I get your energy and you knowwe seemed to just instinctively
understand each other.
So that was cool.
But yeah, and we both felt verysimilarly that it's hard to
fight Once we both started to goon our journey and discover our
own neurodivergence.
It is really important right inthe beginning there to set all
(29:14):
the right boundaries and explainall the right things, but that
can be so difficult as well.
I'm still learning now what myneeds are and how to communicate
them, and then the balancebetween what is my need and what
is something where I actuallyjust need to give a little bit
as a good friend or a goodpartner, and that can be quite
complicated to figure outsometimes yeah, I I agree.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
When I was at um av, one of the key things I really
saw was when we had our peergroups and our um employment
activities and we'd bringeveryone together who in in
neurodivergent space.
There were no communicationissues, or there are a lot less,
and there's like this wholedifferent energy because
everyone communicates in asimilar way and it's like I
(30:03):
think it was described by IanPerkis as it's like it's their
own culture and whenneurodivergent people get
together it's slightly lessstressful.
The communication approach andI think you see it in
relationships that you know Iended up with someone who is
neurodivergent and I've grown upin a neurodivergent.
(30:23):
You know I've got that and youdo tend to gravitate.
And I look at my second child,who is not his you know, new
typical kind of in our house andhe gravitates to neurodivergent
friends.
A lot of his best friends are.
(30:44):
So it's kind of like because heyeah, you're in that space and
I think that's great.
But very important.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
To know yourself and how to be authentic is probably
the hardest part in our spaceand you know, you know what I
I've and I sort of spoke aboutthis with you on the phone this
afternoon, tanzan is that whenI've been around certain people
(31:13):
in the neurodiversity community,it's almost the openness is
more accepted.
And when I mean openness, I'veheard some really full-on stuff
from some people where peoplewould be like if that was just
to say, if you shared that insomewhere that wasn't in the
(31:37):
neurodiversity community, peoplewould be like whoa, what's?
up with this person but in ourcommunity it's almost like it's
just normal, if that makes senseand and it's almost a sigh of
relief when you can be in thatand you're not seen as maybe
(31:57):
weird, or it's almost a sigh ofrelief when other people are
just as weird as you are.
I don't know if that's the wordI'm looking for, but maybe
that's just how I felt fromother people outside of the
community.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes, that sort of acceptance that you might do
things differently.
You know, and you know oh,don't worry, that's how he does
that you know.
It's far more accepting andunderstanding where you're
coming from, that you're notdoing it to hurt other people or
anything.
It's just how you are.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Or you know it's just .
Would it be correct to say thatyou know, because
neurodivergence is such a broadterm, it can be a lot of
different things, but given thatwe all understand that some
people have different brains,given that we all understand
that some people have differentbrains, we don't need to
(33:01):
understand why or how they gotto the behaviour or the thing
they said or the way that theyare.
We just are more willing toaccept that that might not mean
what it seems like it means,whereas I think a lot of
neurotypical people will look ata neurodivergent person's
behaviour and go, oh well, in myhead, you do that because
you're like this and they're notthinking they're not
understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You're wild.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
That their way of thinking themselves into that
behaviour is fundamentallydifferent to how that person
might have gotten there.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, I think there's a lot of compassion in our
community where you know peopleare really willing to give
others their platform and acceptit.
I mean, that's not everyone.
There are some judgmentalpeople in our community,
absolutely, but often they sortof gradually soften.
(33:55):
They actually see how that sortof stuff is accepted.
So, yeah, we're getting there,we're improving how we educate
others and so they understandwhere we're all coming from.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I mean, you know, you just think back five or more
years, you know, and just howmuch things have changed.
Then you go 10, 20, and it'slike barely existed.
So yeah, I'm happy with theprogress, but unhappy with the
progress, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, we can always do more.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, I do believe we've lost Will.
I think this is a first.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Did we just lose Will ?
We did lose Will.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
So we will just wait.
I think we lost our lag, though, so we might know where the
culprit was coming from.
Oh, okay, but I mean, I guess,with that side of things, when
you're first coming to a personmidlife and starting to coach
them, what are the commonquestions that you might hear?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I just want to hear their story, and it's really
giving someone a chance toreally tell their story without
judgment.
You just as a you know and Irecommend this for everyone if
you just sit and listen topeople, it's so powerful and
then you have a chance to sortof reflect back what you've
(35:20):
heard.
And in coaching that's the keything it's often just reflecting
back and then when people hearyou say it, they go oh yeah,
you're right.
I'm like no, you said it, notme.
I'm just reflecting back whatyou said, and this is something
you could think about.
You know, sort of you give somecoaching around options if it's
(35:43):
needed, but yeah, it's reallymuch, it's very much.
Yeah, we lost you Will.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Welcome back Will.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I think that is a neurodivergent mates.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
First, yeah, I know I was thinking oh my god, are
they gonna be right without?
Me, yeah, like come on and youguys just kept on flowing, so
that was good that was good forsome reason my.
I just lost internet connection, so okay.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Well, the lag seems to have fixed up now too, so
that's good.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
So I'm just trying to think what we were up to.
How do neurodivergent adultsadjust relationship expectations
in midlife?
Did we just answer that onebefore?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
A little bit, but I think we did, I think we did, I
think we're actually on to thisone what support helps
neurodivergent adults withmidlife relationship issues?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Okay, yeah, I think I'll just go back to the last
one.
The one thing I'd say I didn'tactually get to say before is
that often trying to mask ourcommunity will do people
pleasing where they compromisethemselves so that other people
feel okay, because often we'requite sensitive and open and we
(37:00):
will shut down.
And I think that was a bigissue in my own relationship
that you know you have toactually look after yourself and
express yourself authentically,because otherwise people don't
really get to know you.
It's this image of you, and sothen when you hit hard times,
(37:20):
that inauthentic image cancrumble.
And yeah, so it's reallyimportant to be authentic that
was the support.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Sorry, that was such a huge thing for me when I was
having relationships in my wholelife until I had this big break
, because I recognized that Ineeded to have that break and
figure some stuff out.
But it was.
I was just like you know.
Everyone I was with seemed tobe in love with this image of me
(37:49):
and I thought it was somethingto do with being a musician or
whatever on stage or putting meon a pedestal.
It wasn't that.
It was that I didn't know whatI needed to communicate, what my
needs were, how to communicateit effectively.
I was trying but I had no ideaand so I wasn't effectively
communicating who I was and Iwas people-pleasing a little bit
because I was a bitself-conscious about my
(38:10):
neurodivergence and I wanted to.
You know, I've always beenstrange and I was self-conscious
about being strange, so I wastrying to be all these things
that I wasn't.
I wasn't communicating veryeffectively and I didn't
understand what my needs werevery well, and that'll sort of
change but, I, did just want toask.
There's probably a subset ofpeople listening right now if
they notice this topic.
(38:31):
What if you're in arelationship?
What have you been married formany years and then suddenly
this diagnosis happens?
How do you adjust at that thatpoint?
What's sort of the commonpilots there?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Well, I think it's the same sort of principles as
then exploring yourself as youare, with that realisation, and
then keeping the channels ofcommunication open and finding
new.
There probably are better waysthat you didn't know you could
access, that were there, andthat realisation you can do
things differently and it's allokay and it'll be better.
(39:08):
I think you know the diagnosisoften creates this whole
revelation and you actually havea much better opportunity in
your relationships because it'sreally authentically you and I
think it still comes back in ourcommunity to you know, feeling
safe enough in the relationshipto be yourself and to say what
(39:34):
you need, your communication,how you need to communicate, and
also then also realising youreally need to listen as well to
the other person.
Always is that give and take andunderstanding it from your new
perspective of yourself.
Um, and with all of that, youmight have new perspective on
your stress and and your lovelanguages and all that sort of
(39:56):
thing unravels once you had thatdiagnosis.
So you're not quite a newperson, but you've got a new
perspective of yourself and howyou like things and how you
explain yourself.
I think is probably, and foryour partner to understand that
and come on the journey with youis really important.
Um, I think often that's wheresome relationships will part
(40:17):
ways, um, and so that's reallyimportant to work on.
It's a joint journey thatyou're on in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, interesting, interesting, interesting.
You know, going on from that,what support helps
neurodivergent adults with?
I think you sort of answeredthat question.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
I think so yeah, the five key areas as far as I've
seen.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, I think we might go to coaching is what
else and self-work.
What you've done is reallyimportant, that self-work where
you're getting to know yourselfand and coaching helps with that
you can point you in the rightdirection and help bring it out.
But then there's also that timewhere you might need to work on
(41:09):
your stress managementtechniques and pre-plan your
communication with your partner.
You know, thinking about how,if it's something you want to
conflict, you need to manage,pre-planning it.
You know there's all sorts ofsensory approaches you can think
about and prepare yourself aswell, empower yourself.
You don't need the coach inthat the coach just gives you
(41:32):
the tools.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
The tools, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
But you can do it.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, it was interesting.
So, you know and we're talkingabout people pleasing before and
you know, I remember I was withone of my exes and I should
have left her a long time beforeI did, and I think a big thing
for me was like, oh my God, thisperson, I'm going to break
(42:00):
their heart or whatever that is.
So that was on my mind and Ididn't want to be that person.
And then, you know, it ended upturning out that she ended up
finding another person leavingme anyway.
So I should have just done itanyway.
But what I'm sort of getting atwas, you know, and I sort of
blamed myself for a while therebecause I was like, you know,
(42:24):
why didn't I leave earlier?
Why did I let this happen?
And you know, for me it took mehaving to move overseas, travel
and refine myself just to buildthat, you know, because I think
as well, sometimes when you'rein maybe what do you call it
like unhealthy relationships, alot of things are said and it
(42:49):
can really knock thatself-confidence.
So it really took me having tomove overseas, to go and meet a
lot of people and, you know, forpeople to be like, oh yeah,
will is cool, and it made methink oh yeah, I am a good
person, people do like me andall of that type of stuff.
But you know, I will admit that.
(43:12):
You know, after that I wassingle for like nine years or
something because I was like Ithink a big thing was like going
oh my God, I've just come outof that relationship where I
couldn't even really be myself,I don't think, and then sort of
basing every other relationshipon that.
(43:35):
So it's like, oh my God, I needeveryone else who I need to
meet is going to this, and whenI explain this, they're going to
be like oh my God, I needeveryone else who I need to meet
is going to this, and when Iexplain this, they're going to
be like oh my God, that'sstrange, or whatever like that.
So I think that was the hardpart really trying to find those
next people, or even just beingaround people who understood.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
And you can't forget too, like in all of this, there
is another person you know andyou can be forget too.
Like in all of this, there isanother person you know and, um,
you can be as authentic as youwant you can, you can understand
your needs as well as you want,but the other person has to
actually, you know, make theeffort to understand this.
And if they're neurodivergent,it's a two-way street.
But even if they're not, it'sstill a two-way street as a
relationship.
Um, you need to be aware of ofhow your neurodivergence might
(44:21):
affect them and do your best tomanage anything that might be
negative about that.
But they also need to have abuilt-in understanding that
you're doing your best.
There might be a failure ratebuilt in with what you're doing
and make some accommodations aswell, and neurotypical people
have accommodations that theyrequire, sometimes just attached
(44:42):
to their personality.
They're like, well, I'm thiskind of person, so you know, so
it it, yeah, but that yeah thatother person does does need to
make the effort to understandwhat you're communicating to
them about your brain and how itworks.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, but do you know what right I found that when
especially like I, you know,because dating changed after I
broke up with one of my exes,like it went into the whole uh,
you go on to a dating app andall of that and I just felt I
couldn't be my authentic self,where before that, I was able to
(45:19):
meet people and people could belike, oh my god, will's really
cool because they understand mypersonality, but you can't get
that through a dating app, whichwas really difficult.
So what I was finding was I'dbe meeting people and I just
kept on meeting the same similartype of people who I just no
(45:41):
longer wanted to be around, ifthat makes sense.
So they were into heavydrinking, still into drug use
and stuff like that, and I'mlike, oh my God, and I remember
even thinking.
I'm like is this, you know, isthis what I need to be to
attract someone?
Do you know what I?
mean, I'm like there's got to bedifferent ways.
(46:02):
And that almost causeddepression and anxiety within
myself, because it's like I'mtrying to do good now, I'm
trying to do way better thanwhat I did back in the day, but
it's like I'm getting dealt abad hand.
What have I done wrong?
Type of thing.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So that's self-doubt and confidence starts to lack
yeah, absolutely, and thatenergy drawing in the wrong
people, um.
But with all of this, it's allabout safety, isn't it safety to
be yourself and finding thosespaces where you can, um, find
(46:42):
people who you can be safe with.
I mean, I know there is thatsort of thought that with the
dating app, at least you knowthey're interested in dating,
you're not just going somewhereand there's people who are not
interested and you're trying to,you talk to them with a
different intention, so at leastyou're all there with the same
intention.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
The only thing I've found with dating apps, for
example right and you know,maybe I'm wrong is that because
it's like a competition.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like playing bingo orsomething like that.
Sorry, my cat's jumping up onme.
So, like you know, you willconnect with someone and, as an
(47:20):
ADHDer, you're like, oh my God,here's someone new, let's start
talking.
And that person may not evenstart talking to you for days
and it's really incredibly hard.
And then you might be like, hi,how's it going?
And they're like, yeah, good.
(47:41):
And then you're going on a dateand it's draining.
You know it's so draining.
Um, I don't know, it was justso draining.
But I think the biggest thing Ifound was that what I enjoyed,
especially making friends, wasgoing and doing volunteer work
where I didn't have to be arounddrinking or taking drugs.
(48:06):
All of that.
Actually, it was funny becauseI was around, all of that.
I was actually helping homelesspeople on the weekends who were
drunk and on drugs, but youknow, we were helping them but
you were there doing somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was finding I was
meeting really cool people.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
So I think the hard thing is realising that the
dating apps, for example, aren'tthe only way to meet people.
How do we find?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
these other ways.
I reckon it's, you know,finding places where you can
belong.
You know, like I'm not sayingAsperger's Victoria, but what
I'm saying is things likeplaying sport or you know, like
golf is good, or swimming ismore of a neurodivergent thing,
or, you know, joining councilactivities like cleanups and
(48:56):
things like that.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Well, can I say, you can get out there, well, even
just what I do within thecommunity.
So putting a podcast onspeaking at events.
I know that's business for me,but I meet so many people and
it's like that's like my drug,if that makes sense because I'm
(49:20):
meeting all these people.
I, I connect with them.
Hey, what's going on?
I make?
I'm always, you know, reaching,I know I reach out to you
sometimes, tamsin, and juststart conversations and stuff
like that, because I just cravesocial interaction um and this
(49:41):
has sort of helped with that,but sometimes it's not enough if
that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah, so that's that extrovert side of you.
I suppose it's harder for theintroverts among us who don't
get the energy from beingamongst people and that
isolation they can feel.
But you know, we talked aboutearlier how sometimes, even
within a relationship, you canfeel lonely and isolated if
(50:07):
you're neurodivergent,especially if you can't be or
you don't feel safe to really beauthentic.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Well, I found that like the pandemic was really bad
for that for me.
So my partner she was wasworking, she was doing all the
covid testing, so she was crazybusy.
I was just at home on my ownthe whole time and I was just
going insane like I have never,because, like I would go to bed
(50:40):
when my partner would get home,she would wake up together,
she'd go to work and then I'd beon my own the whole day.
Then she'd come home, so it waslike I never saw anyone yeah you
didn't get that energy fix.
Yeah, it was crazy and that waswhere I really learned about
(51:03):
like loneliness, especiallywithin relationships as well,
and, um, you know how hard thatis to to deal with type of thing
.
Um, and it could even be nothaving guy friends to go and
just talk about guy stuff, orchick friends to speak about
(51:27):
women's stuff, and you know.
Or even a guy speaking havinglike I have a lot of female
friends as well, yeah, and youknow just all of that type of
stuff, you know, and it's reallyinteresting.
Once, I think the pandemicreally opened my mind to that.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
We have to make an effort in a way, if you really
want that connection, thatenergy connection.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
There's actually a study I think it was where was
it?
Yeah, oxford that showed, onaverage, the men who have the
best mental health and feel mostsatisfied with their personal
lives and their relationshipsspend two nights a week with
their friends.
So you know whether you agreewith the number or not, it's an
element that does actually haveto happen.
Hello everyone.
By the way, Sorry I dropped it.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Oh yeah, we're jinked .
Hey, you're back.
You guys are taking turns.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
We were talking before we jumped on about.
We were saying you know, oneday we'll have money for a
producer and a technical guy tomake sure everything runs
smoothly.
And you were saying Tamsin, oh,but I like the DIY.
You know?
Authentic vibe.
Was that authentic enough foryou?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
It was great.
You know one goes off, theother comes on, you know Because
that's what we do every episode, you know.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, yeah, this is two episodes in a row for me.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, it was lucky that it wasn't like an episode
when it was just you and me,Photon John.
That would have been awkward.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
How do I keep on talking?
Speaker 2 (52:56):
here, but we have had that happen in the past
actually, but you know, movingon from this Tamsin.
So how do menopause or othermidlife changes affect
neurodivergent relationships?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, I think that menopause and hormone change,
midlife is another.
It's a bit like neurodivergenceand how autism was.
There's hardly anything knownabout it.
And you look at all the stuffabout pregnancy and hormone
changes around that.
There is masses, there'svolumes, there's research,
there's all sorts of stuff whenit comes to menopause or for men
(53:35):
it's andropause.
At the same time there'snothing, there's hardly anything
, and what happens is it sort ofsneaks up on you.
You get this hormone change andit affects your mood, affects
your sleep.
You can't sleep, you get moreanxious generally, and women who
are neurodivergent had amidlife crisis Like that's way
(54:08):
beyond.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
At what age, out of curiosity.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
So midlife, I think, is from early mid-40s until you
know 60.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
So we're getting towards that age.
Food on john something to lookforward to, brother.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah but I think it's important to know about and
prepare can you prepare for it?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
oh, understanding that some people think that
they're getting depressed andthey've got, or you know,
there's all sorts of or it mightbe their autism or their ADHD.
But it's actually bigger thanthat.
It's their natural hormones aredropping off which help monitor
their mood and their life.
And to understand that thatstarted and it's happening, at
(54:55):
least you can start to putthings into place, to manage it
into place, to manage it.
And also because yourrelationships you know there's a
lot of conflict around the factthat you know your expectations
in relationships change as well.
And if you don't understand itand the general community
doesn't understand it, then it'sa big issue.
(55:15):
But I have heard I'm coaching alawyer going for partnership
and her law firm actually has amenopause policy.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
That just came in to help them, and andropause.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Yeah, andropause policy because of these crises
that hit especially in law firms.
There's so many neurodivergentprofessionals like the highest.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And I didn't realise yeah, so I didn't realise until
I started listening to a fewlike panels on like this that we
would see a lot of women wouldretire in like their early 50s
and people just thought, okay,that was normal for women to
retire then.
But they're saying that that'sprobably because menopause and
(56:06):
all of that.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, it's a crisis and you look at work.
Is it work?
Is it my relationship or whatis it?
And often at work, becauseyou're finding difficulty with
sleep and that sort of thing oryour relationship issues are
slamming you in the background,your work is affected, um, and
often until now you reallycouldn't talk about.
(56:31):
Oh, you know, I've gotandropause, I've got a midlife
crisis.
It was sort of covered up, um,so at least that's becoming
something that's getting more,more spoken about and understood
.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
So you know we talk a lot on this podcast about
things you know, like I wastalking to my mum and her friend
the other day about how people,the younger generation in
particular they're all aboutkindness and they learn a lot
more about how people can bedifferent.
They learn a lot more aboutneurodivergence than we ever did
, which was nothing.
But you know, society islearning more and more to just
(57:07):
be a bit kinder.
When you don't understandsomething Is a midlife crisis,
maybe something we need to justtake a bit more compassion to
when we see someone we know orlove going through it, because
it's potentially to do withhormonal change and I think
that's spot on.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
It's that compassion and accepting that people will
struggle at stages and you know,that's that whole movement
around more understanding withmental health generally, I think
, which is great.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
People really write them off and understanding yeah.
When they're going through amidlife crisis.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Well, I think the reason why they write them off
is like they're thinking oh,they're lazy, they just don't
understand it, you know, and itprobably presents in a way that
they're not working and how theyused to work and it's very hard
to explain and forneurodivergent people that
sounds very familiar yeah so itis.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
It's this bigger thing of being understanding and
accepting that someone's moodat that time and it's not your
responsibility to change theirmood.
That's your boundary and youknow managing that part of the
relationship for you at work andat home.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
You know it's interesting as well.
You know it's it's interestingas well.
Like this might sound funny,but like we're seeing, like uh,
going back to dating and allthat type of stuff as well, um,
a lot of people are datingdifferent ages now.
So some men are dating olderwomen or some, um, or some older
(58:47):
men are dating older women, orsome older men are dating
younger women, or vice versa, orwhatever.
That looks like right.
Wonder, like that would be.
I'm just trying to think how Iword it.
I wonder how you know, becauselike people just wouldn't know
about what's going on with thattype of stuff, and how would
(59:10):
people, I suppose, cope when, inthose types of relationships, I
wonder, because things wouldchange.
Say, if you know, I'm not sure,like I don't know, sex drives
change or whatever like that,and then you know it's, I don't
know.
Is that an argument for?
Speaker 3 (59:32):
age-appropriate dating.
What's that?
Sorry, I said, is that anargument for age-appropriate
dating?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
But like you would get into that and let's say
you've been dating someone forquite a while who's older than
you or whatever, Then thesethings start to happen.
You're like, oh my God, I'mnever dating someone older than
me again, because you know thatwas just grumpy, I don't know,
you know, it's just interesting,yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Yeah, I suppose that's ageism coming in as
another thing.
Isn't it another factor?
You've got all sorts ofdifferent isms that impact our
perspective of other people yeah, oh, that's not that's not me
being ageist, but I'm not sayingthat like, like that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
But um, yeah, I worry about being that older guy.
You know what I mean.
That's why I'm definitelylooking for someone my age, but
I think you know.
Bringing it back around to thekindness thing, I think what
Will's talking about.
You know what is it endopause,menopause and you know
(01:00:41):
divergence.
I think, in general, just thereis an overarching theme of just
a bit more kindness andcompassion and not being so
quick to judge other people'ssituations, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
And self-compassion I mean there's huge amounts of
work on that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I'm not ready to go.
I'm still learning.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Crazy, crazy.
We're getting to the end of thepodcast, so you know what
advice would you giveneurodivergent individuals
navigating midlife relationshipsand all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, well, I think that does come back to what we
just said.
You know exploring yourself anddo what you can to learn more
about yourself.
Don't assume you knoweverything.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
And maybe your partner as well, correct?
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, yeah, continue to learn.
Be open to learning and growing, I think, is the thing, because
a life is one.
I think someone said recentlyevery 18 months you go through a
transition in your life.
So you know, thinking that lifehasn't changed is not going to
protect you, because it's goingto hit you harder.
So I think it's being open tochange and growing, learning
(01:02:00):
about yourself, learning aboutother people and if that's
through coaching, that helps you, gives you more tools and more
perspective of yourself.
Yes, or other mentoring isanother getting a mentor, but
being open to knowing more aboutyourself and the world around
you, and I think our communityand neurodivergent are fantastic
(01:02:21):
at getting this great generalknowledge about everything
that's out there, thatinquisitive approach, and then
then needs to come back toyourself and relationships as
well, where we can strugglecrazy, crazy awesome stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Yeah, no, no.
Thank you so much.
Look awesome topic to talkabout, very interesting.
I think it's something we'vedefinitely been interested in
talking about before.
I wasn't 100 sure how the topic, what sort type of area it was
going to go into, so tamden.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday but for the therapy
(01:03:00):
session.
Yeah, yeah, yeah hopefullyphoton john can go away and, um,
uh, you know, get some tips onto help him with some stuff, and
I can definitely take a lot ofstuff away to help with my
relationship, all of that typeof stuff.
But if people can want toconnect with you or find out a
(01:03:21):
bit more about your work,where's the best place to go?
Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
It's probably at the moment my Facebook page, the
Neurodiversity Coach, and onLinkedIn, just up there as tans
and jowett.
That's the best connect through.
I've got calendly um links inthere so you can set up to have
a free chat with me um, just tosee what I can do what with what
you issues you're facing andhow we could go forward.
(01:03:47):
So I I think that's probablythe easiest, isn't it?
I don't have a website yet.
I'm still just underdevelopment.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh, good Many of us?
Yeah, we'll get there, got tostart somewhere.
Right, got to start somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Exactly.
If you want an SEO, just yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
If you want SEO?
See photo on John john.
He'll be able to help you, ohreally he's the king with seo
perfect, that's great okay, wecan.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
We've got a.
Yeah, we can do something there, but thank you so much for
having me and, um, I know wedidn't get much time to prepare
and whatever, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
No, I think we actually did pretty well.
I think you know, like we said,we had no idea what it would
sort of go off, as we had noplan, but we made it happen.
So we appreciate you coming andcoming on the podcast on short
notice.
I thank you so much, you nailedit.
(01:04:49):
What do you reckon Photon John?
Okay?
So, thank you so much, younailed it.
What do you reckon Photon John?
Okay, I reckon you'reabsolutely right.
Yeah, excellent, we both get abit of therapy out of this.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Yeah, yeah, totally totally, totally.
Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
So, yeah, I think you're going to be an awesome
coach, so thank you so much forcoming on, Samson.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
So, for all of our listeners out there, if you
haven't already done so, pleasesubscribe, like and follow to
all of our social mediaplatforms.
My name is Will Wheeler.
Join with my main friend,Photon John, and this is
(01:05:32):
Neurodivergent Mates.
Until next time you.
you're listening to neurodivergent mates.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of NeuroDivergent Mates.
(00:26):
I'm your host, will Wheeler,joined with my main man, photon
John.
What's going on, brother?
Oh, you know.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
Beginning of the work week.
I got up this morning thinkingthere'd be work and there wasn't
.
So I did that ADHD thing whereI thought all day about what I
should do and did nothing.
Oh okay, interesting.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Oh man, my day was actually pretty hectic.
You know, when you know you'vegot a day and you've um, I don't
know, like, it wasn't like Ihad.
He, I did have things planned,but then just stuff started
happening.
People started reaching out.
I needed to quickly emailpeople, so it was very, but it
(01:05):
just seemed to go real.
A lot of stuff happened, ifthat makes sense, so it was
pretty cool.
But no, no, but look for ourlisteners today.
You know, we did have adifferent topic that we weren't
going to cover originally andunfortunately, the guest had to
pull out last minute.
So these things happen in thepodcasting world and you know
(01:29):
it's neurodivergent people yeah,especially live as well.
We, we had to get our creativethinking caps on and we're able
to to reach out to an awesomeperson to, to tell you the truth
, um, I think it's probably abetter topic than the one that
we're going to be coveringanyway, it's still coming on.
Don't say that, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I know, I know, but I
(01:53):
think it's good, I think it justit just really hit a spot with
me.
So, yeah, I just think you know, I think what I'm more getting
at is the other topic that we'regoing to be talking about.
It wasn't that it's notrelevant.
I think that when you're sortof trying to scramble to get
something happening and then wecame across a really awesome
(02:13):
topic and a person to come joinus, it was like, yes, this is
awesome, it feels good, right,so let's get stuck into this.
So today, what we're going tobe covering is midlife and
neurodivergent relationshipswith Tamsyn Jowett Tamsyn.
Thank you so much for joiningus today.
(02:33):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (02:35):
I'm great, thank you for having me.
No problem at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
No problem at all.
And look, no problem at all.
And look, thank you so much forlike last-minute call-up type
of thing.
And I think, like I was sayingjust previously, like this
morning I woke up I saw that youhad replied to my message, so
it was like all systems go andthen, you know, normally for us,
(03:04):
especially with the podcast, wespend like an afternoon going
through questions like vote onJohn and myself.
So it was a very big scramblebut we made it happen.
So, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Oh, no, love it, and I love talking about
neurodivergence andparticipating in shows.
You know, your show is great.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Yeah, no problem, problem, no problem.
So what we might do just beforewe get started, we'll do our
housekeeping, like we always doso.
For anyone who hasn't checkedthis out before, if you haven't
already done so, pleasesubscribe, like and follow to
all of our social mediaplatforms.
We're available on tiktok,facebook, instagram, x, twitch,
youtube, linkedin.
(03:43):
We're also available on everyplatform where you listen to
your podcast.
Also, if you haven't alreadydone so, please check out the
work that we're doing withneurodiversity academy.
You can check us out atneurodiversityacademycom also
today.
Um, some of the discussions maybe triggering for some.
If you need need help, pleasereach out to a loved one or call
(04:06):
emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperiences and strategies.
Also, if you've got anyquestions, please, while we're
going through the live podcast,put it in the comments on our
social media pages and hopefully, if it's a good comment, we'll
put it up on the on the podcasthere for us to um answer.
(04:28):
All right, well, I did prettywell on that one.
What do you reckon for it onjohn?
Speaker 3 (04:33):
back on form, my friend yeah, man, back in form.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
You know what, right, how we say.
Um, some discussions may betriggering.
If you need help, please reachout to a loved one, loved one,
or call emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperiences and strategies.
I was thinking about that.
Sometimes we do have doctors,so I wonder what's going to
happen.
Once we get it, we go.
We are not doctors.
(04:57):
I'll have to say we one personis a doctor.
You know what I mean yeah but,um, I just think it's good that
we cover all of that anyway.
But, tamsin, like I said, thankyou so much for coming on today
.
You know I've known a lot ofthe work that you're doing, but
(05:17):
you know, I think it would bereally great for our audience to
just hear a little bit aboutyourself.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, sure, I'm not a doctor, I'm originally a lawyer
.
But I grew up in a family wheremy dad was a GP and he was a
country GP and one of hismantras was Tamsin, there is no
normal, it's a myth.
Just don't think about that.
Everyone is different.
(05:44):
So I just grew up with that,that about that, everyone is
different.
So I just grew up with that,that thought that everyone is
different and that's great, it'sokay.
And he thought it was wonderful.
And, um, I, but I went on,became a lawyer, went into the
corporate world verycorporatized, masked, perfect,
you know that sort of scene.
And then, um, when I was livingin Dubai and I was working for
BP my eldest son we started torealize he was a bit different.
(06:11):
And next thing, we know, ofcourse, you know, you go through
the diagnostic process and allof that.
And so 17 years ago we realizedthat he was autistic.
And it was this whole worldthat opened up for me.
And and of course, there's likeit's like domino effect,
because you look at all yourfamily and everything.
(06:31):
Oh my god, I've lived with thisall my life and this is this me
there, and my husband wasdefinitely as well and then all
the lawyers and other friends ofours, um, and then when I got
back to Australia, it was what,what do I do around this?
What can I do?
And I felt you feel a bithelpless and you know, 17, 18
(06:52):
years ago there wasn't a lot inour space.
There was.
It was early and so I became.
I started volunteering atAsperger's Victoria and then I
became the president ofAsperger's Victoria and I really
loved that sort of way ofempowering people with resources
and providing community and aplace to belong.
(07:13):
That was what I thought wasreally important that place to
connect, where you were safe,you're accepted and for just who
you are.
And so I went on to become.
We got some funding inemployment programs and I became
the CEO at Asperger's Victoriaand in that time, to do my
employment programs, I became anICF coach, and so now I've left
(07:37):
AV and I'm focusing more oncoaching, which is the ICF
standard for coaching.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
Nice, nice, nice nice .
That sounds really interesting,I think you know.
Yeah, and I'm, I was.
I'm terrible with math and Iwas trying to figure out what 17
years ago was.
It was 2024 so it would havebeen like early 2000s, about
2005 or 2004,.
(08:05):
2003 type of thing.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
Early and of course you know he was diagnosed
aspergers, because that's whatit was then.
You know kind of it was allsegregated and the spectrum
wasn't understood and a lot ofnegativity.
You know people saying, oh, I'msorry to hear that and I'm like
I'm not sorry.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 3 (08:24):
You know.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
So it was a.
It was quite a negative eraaround all of this yeah, yeah no
, that's why the?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
um, that's why the uh whole vaccines cause autism
thing annoys me, because I'mlike you're talking about this
like it's the worst possiblething that could happen to your
child.
Yeah, no, do you know what?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
right, funny, funny you say that, right, I think I
did.
I read something or somethingthe other day where they were
talking about autism is causedby plastics being consumed by
the mother, or something I thinkI read.
I think I read something likethat the other day and I'm like
(09:03):
what?
Or there was something wherethey're able to to reverse it,
or something.
I don't know.
I think it's just all this crap.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I'm seeing a lot of research online and some of it's
legitimate research, but a lotof people are going well.
People with autism tend to havethis kind of diet, or people
with autism tend to engage inthis kind of activity, their
parents engaged in this kind ofactivity or their parents
engaged in that kind of activity, and it's like just correlation
.
Like you know, it's fairlysolid now that it's pretty
(09:35):
genetic and people need to becareful.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Yeah, it's that deficit mindset about difference
which I think goes right backto the mental health system,
because originally if your childwas diagnosed autistic, often
they would get locked away.
You know it was horrific.
So there was a fear aroundhaving differences, which is
still there to an extent.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So even around that early 2000,.
You had a big fear.
So even around that early 2000,you had a big fear and you know
you spoke about you were alawyer and all of that.
Did you then change yourperspective from how you would
then see things?
Say, what type of law were youinto?
Speaker 1 (10:19):
actually out of curiosity, I was corporate
Pretty boring, but like stilllike.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
Was that in relation to workplace law, like how
people would be treated, oranything like that?
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Well, when I look back, I'd always done that.
I'd always been involved in theHR, even as a lawyer.
So it was just who I was wasabout empowering people, I think
.
And I think initially it washaving to adjust, because I'd
heard about autism and I'd heardabout this theory of
refrigerated mothers and thingslike that causing it.
(10:55):
And then I looked at my son andwent no way, you know, he's so
creative.
He had, he sings beautifully,he was amazing school, but he
had trouble making friends andsitting at mat time Is he a
musician.
He is a filmmaker.
Now he's at VCA doing film andloving it, just loving it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Awesome.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, no, that's awesome, that's awesome.
But like I suppose, um, youknow, moving on from that, sorry
, I'll just um, you know, andprobably going a bit more into
about the work that you do, typeof thing, so you know, like you
were saying you were, you wereat, um, Asperger's, victoria,
there, um, you know, especiallyearlys, like, if I remember back
(11:46):
to those days there was, youknow, because I remember in
school there was no way therewas as much stuff as what there
is now.
It's sort of like we still gota long way to go, but back then
there was even nothing really.
(12:07):
So you know, what was it like?
I suppose, starting off aroundthat era there, out of curiosity
, because, if I think about thatera for me, I had full drug and
alcohol addiction, I was offtap, so there's no way I was
(12:30):
thinking, oh, you know, should Ibe doing stuff for
neurodiversity?
So it's interesting to maybehear what was happening around
that era, if that's cool.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
Well, we had Amaze it just changed their name to
amaze.
When I and um, we had um, acouple of small organizations,
but there wasn't a lot ofsupport and there was minimal
understanding in schools.
I found which was.
It was astonishing because whenyou look now you realize at
least a quarter of the kids inevery class are neurodivergent
(13:06):
in some way.
How those kids got through andthey're the ones.
So that's where I am coachingmidlife, because they're the
ones that went through withoutsupport and often some of them
went through and sort of forcedthemselves into a mould and then
get to midlife and have acrisis because suddenly it
really doesn't make sense andanxiety and stress is built up.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Or could you even say that you learn about who you
are.
So now you're like oh my God,now I can take the mask off and
start living my normal life, andyou know.
But every trauma and all ofthat that's happened in the past
starts flooding in becauseyou're like man.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
That was because of this yeah, yeah, it's a whole
process and then, and thenthere's also the um sorry I
think we may have a little laghere um but then there's also
the process of grief that you gothrough We've spoken about that
a couple of times in thepodcast where you sort of look
(14:10):
back and go, wow, you know thesupport that I didn't get, the
way things could have beendifferent.
And you do sort of go throughthat period before you sort of
learn to adjust and accept theway things are and you know and
ultimately feel better becauseyou can move forward with a
better understanding and moretools to equip you to succeed.
But yeah, definitely a process.
(14:30):
Did you have to deal with a bitof that?
Speaker 1 (14:34):
A little bit, you know, realising what sort of
schools.
You sort of assume that anyschool would be fine, but then
there were schools that wouldrefuse to have autistic kids,
and there are still some?
Speaker 3 (14:51):
now I mean, like with midlife people.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
Do you come across a lot of midlife people who
Definitely people who definitelyit's um, it's a whole hindsight
sort of, it's you looking backacross your whole history and
rewriting it in some ways, andsome of it's fantastic because
you realize there was somethingelse going on and that you
(15:22):
wouldn't, you weren't defective,you were just different and you
did things differently and thatpeople just didn't understand,
whereas now, at least you know,we've done as a community across
Australia, we've done so mucharound building understanding
and neurodivergence and, as yousay, well, we're getting there,
(15:43):
but there's more to go.
But the people who are gettingdiagnosed now are often parents
who are having their kidsdiagnosed much earlier, like
some kids diagnosed beforeschool, which is fabulous, you
know, it's fabulous, and thatchild can then build their
self-understanding as well asthat parent support them better.
And then the parent has thatreal of wow, that's how I was
(16:08):
and you know, school wouldn't doanything for me, um, and then
the parent can open up withright, this, this is how my mind
works.
So I wonder if that helps mychild can see it.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
They can.
They've almost lived the um, thelife of the child before the
child has lived it, if thatmakes sense, so they're able to
maybe make better decisionsbased on certain things.
It's almost like I don't havechildren, but, like you know,
and I think back to when I wasin school and I used to get in
(16:42):
trouble for a lot of stuff andI'd be afraid to go home and
tell my mum and dad that I gotin trouble because I thought I'd
get in trouble again, you know,and it was clearly the teacher
was bullying.
And you know, because whenyou're a neurodivergent kid
especially like I was ADHD,didn't even know I was struggled
(17:02):
with everything You're a burdenon the teacher.
So they, a lot of them, don'tlike you, not all of them, some
of them do.
So you know, I think you know,maybe if I was to be a parent
now, I'd be able to see straightthrough that type of stuff and
be like hang on, don't tell methat my son's this, this is a
(17:24):
daughter or whatever it is.
We're able to see it a lotbetter, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
I think we're getting there.
Speaker 3 (17:35):
There's also.
There would be a lot of issuesjust with the lack of education,
not to denigrate parents at all, but there would be parents who
also didn't understand.
So in some cases those kidsmight have gone home and gotten
in trouble again, because theparents also don't know what's
going on, as well as theteachers.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, and I think that's part of midlife, because
often there's a bit of trauma,because our neurodivergent
community are far more sensitiveto everything, but including
that sort of negativity and thetrauma of the fear of not being
able to tell your parents thingsand not to be yourself.
So then, midlife, that unravelsa lot of the time with hormones
(18:15):
and everything else that comesin.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Yeah, totally, but you know, I think it's.
I think it'd be cool to maybeget a little bit more in depth
into this.
So you know, obviously we'rehere to speak about midlife and
neurodivergent relationships,all of that.
So how has neurodivergenceshaped your midlife
relationships?
And I don't know if I've reallyput it that way or just put it
(18:39):
in whatever way you wanted toexplain it, but you know, I
think it might be important tomaybe share what this is, you
know, and maybe how it hasaffected you, if that's what you
want to share, of course yeah,I mean I suppose mine's not a
happy story.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
In some sense, I've learned so much about myself and
about relationships and that'swhy I want to do this coaching,
so I can help and support otherswith this.
There's minimal support forneurodivergent people.
Going through this is what I'verealised.
I'm going through the end ofdivorce and coming out the other
(19:20):
side and I think I'm a muchbetter person for where I am and
what I've learned um, but it'sa hard transition and um I don't
want others to go through this.
So if there's ways, I I youknow I've developed ways I can
support people um neurodivergentfamilies and neurodivergent so
they don't go through the levelof um the experience that I've
(19:44):
been through and hopefully havethat self-awareness and are
pre-ready for how to manage this, because relationships are just
really hard in our space withcommunication differences.
It just sets you up for achallenging relationship if
you're not prepared and if youdon't know what to put in the
(20:05):
work, and I'd say I failed insome ways in that myself putting
in the work.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Was that?
Would you say and share as muchand as little as you like, you
know?
Was that prior to say yourdivorce?
Or after, like especially whenyou and I were on the phone?
We're talking about the shock.
Do you know what I mean?
And Fona and John, you weretalking about like realisation
(20:32):
of certain things.
You know what was that?
Was it?
Do you sort of get to thatshock sort of level and then
you're like, oh my God, now Isee everything that got to this
point, type of thing, or whydidn't I do this?
Or I don't know.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
There is yeah, there's a great unravelling, I
think, where you go through therealisation, that shock.
You know, in our communitywe're not great on transitions
and that's like an instanttransition a lot of the time and
having to not just manage itfor yourself, you're managing it
for your neurodivergent family,your kids.
(21:16):
So it's a really tricky processto be going through.
And even if you weren't goingthrough a divorce, relationships
at this stage of life arechallenged, I think, because the
kids are getting older.
It's a different life stage.
They're not as dependent on you.
A lot of them move out of home,like Jack is off at uni and so
(21:42):
and then they probably getgirlfriends or boyfriends or
whatever, and then they'reliving their own life and it
probably happens like sorry, howold is your, your youngest son?
the youngest is 16.
Speaker 2 (21:58):
Eldest is 23 oh, okay , but it probably feels like
your 16 year old was only bornnot long ago, correct?
Speaker 1 (22:06):
so all of a sudden, this changes absolutely,
absolutely, it's full-on, it'sum.
So, yeah, I'm doing a cdc, um,it's a globally certified
divorce coaching course.
And if you and I've done atrauma course and, uh, you know,
I'm catching up.
I love learning, as you know,sort of adhd, uh, neurotypic
(22:28):
neurodivergent space um, I'mquite typical in that I love
having another course, um, butyou know, if I can sort of
empower others so they don't gothrough this, that would be
fantastic are you having manypeople reaching out to you about
it actually like, oh my god,yeah, I'm going through this at
the moment?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
or do you get maybe people who are um feeling like
it may be getting to that point,if that makes sense?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
well, I suppose I've been doing the midlife coaching
even when I was at AV and itwould.
Even then I was coaching peoplein this space, but probably not
from such a lived experiencelens of it all going pear-shaped
in the learning I've got now.
Um, so I've been in that spacefor a while and had people
reaching out just was mainlywork issues and when
(23:20):
relationships impacted work anda bit of you know other
relationships.
So it's been there for a while.
But I think now I've got a newlens that's even more expansive
and a lot more learning that Ican share and support people
with.
Speaker 2 (23:36):
Lived experience is the key right.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
It is In our space.
No one else can understand it.
But even then, lived experienceis very individual.
But you still get.
You're more open to hearingother people's experiences and
understanding.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
This is different there's some similarity, yeah
yeah, no, crazy, crazy um.
Out of curiosity, how doneurodivergent adults adjust
relationship expectations inmidlife?
Do you think?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
um, and if I could just add a little addendum to
this, um, as a 43 year oldneurodivergent man who decided
to stay single nearly nine yearsago now because relationships
were just a lot um yeah how doyou get out of that?
What's it like?
What's it like for you know,I've sort of come to this real
(24:33):
understanding of myself whilesingle and I haven't had a
relationship since.
I've come to understand myselfbetter and I'm very unsure how I
would re-enter that market,especially understanding what
you need.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Yeah, I think that's actually so critical is that
self-understanding andunderstanding your
neurodivergence, because whenyou come into a relationship, it
becomes a mirror often, youknow.
So you're mirroring to eachother your characteristics and
so it can emphasise parts aboutyourself and you can, you know,
(25:11):
and it's a negotiation, it'salmost a dance.
So there's three things there'syou, you know, and it's a
negotiation, it's almost a dance.
So there's three things there'syou, the other person and the
relationship.
So, but having thatself-understanding, so then you
can communicate, work out whatyou need and how relationships
need to be for you, where yourboundary needs to be, um, where
(25:34):
your stress will be, um.
Sorry if my earpod just droppedout um your love languages, how
you express love which is notjust to someone who's intimate
with you, be generally um, andand and having that emotional
work that you've probably donein the meantime is really
(25:57):
powerful.
I think that's really you knowgood of you to do that.
You know it's sort of likerespecting the other person.
I'm going to come into this asa certain type of person, so
yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:10):
I think, you know it's interesting because, let's
say, the, the, the modern datingworld these days is very um,
let's say, it's completelydifferent to say even what it
was 2020.
I'm thinking in the 90s notthat I was, I was only new to
(26:30):
dating back then.
I think I was 18 or somethinglike that.
But you know, and I think Frodoand Jon and myself, you know,
in a way, that was sort of whywe started the podcast, not for
dating, but we'd actually wewere sort of like it was
incredibly hard to find friends.
(26:50):
As neurodivergent people, Ithink we could find friends
quite easy, but like it wasdifficult to find the friends
that met maybe our needs type ofthing, and then we were looking
at it from a relationshipperspective as well.
So you know, I think some ofthe difficulties and Photon,
(27:12):
john, you can chime in if youlike on this as well.
Hang on, just let me finishthis for a second, then you can
chime in.
Right, you know we were sort ofgoing look, there's certain and
like you spoke about it beforeTamsin is that we do have
certain needs and wants.
I suppose that we really, youknow, admire or really want, but
(27:39):
sometimes trying to get thatacross to people right from the
beginning is incrediblydifficult without them thinking
what the hell is this person,this person's weird, you know?
So we were actually looking attrying to develop an app pardon
me sorry where, um, we would beable to be up front with a lot
(28:01):
of those things still in theworks.
All that's probably a long-termproject, but, um, I I think it.
It is so vital at that earlystage of you, you know, creating
a relationship or friendship,which it usually starts off as
because I think that it's theproblems down the track that
(28:23):
that's where people start going.
Well, I didn't sign up for this, I didn't sign up to, you know,
be this and that, if that makessense, exactly.
Speaker 3 (28:32):
And you will grow and change go and I think will and
I, you know we weren't like we.
We became closer later in ourfriendship, but in the beginning
we would just see each otheraround because will was, um,
covering bands and doinginterviews and stuff and I was
playing around and um, but uh,just our friendship in the
(28:52):
beginning was just like, fromacross the room we just played,
I get your energy and you knowwe seemed to just instinctively
understand each other.
So that was cool.
But yeah, and we both felt verysimilarly that it's hard to
fight Once we both started to goon our journey and discover our
own neurodivergence.
It is really important right inthe beginning there to set all
(29:14):
the right boundaries and explainall the right things, but that
can be so difficult as well.
I'm still learning now what myneeds are and how to communicate
them, and then the balancebetween what is my need and what
is something where I actuallyjust need to give a little bit
as a good friend or a goodpartner, and that can be quite
complicated to figure outsometimes yeah, I I agree.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
When I was at um av, one of the key things I really
saw was when we had our peergroups and our um employment
activities and we'd bringeveryone together who in in
neurodivergent space.
There were no communicationissues, or there are a lot less,
and there's like this wholedifferent energy because
everyone communicates in asimilar way and it's like I
(30:03):
think it was described by IanPerkis as it's like it's their
own culture and whenneurodivergent people get
together it's slightly lessstressful.
The communication approach andI think you see it in
relationships that you know Iended up with someone who is
neurodivergent and I've grown upin a neurodivergent.
(30:23):
You know I've got that and youdo tend to gravitate.
And I look at my second child,who is not his you know, new
typical kind of in our house andhe gravitates to neurodivergent
friends.
A lot of his best friends are.
(30:44):
So it's kind of like because heyeah, you're in that space and
I think that's great.
But very important.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
To know yourself and how to be authentic is probably
the hardest part in our spaceand you know, you know what I
I've and I sort of spoke aboutthis with you on the phone this
afternoon, tanzan is that whenI've been around certain people
(31:13):
in the neurodiversity community,it's almost the openness is
more accepted.
And when I mean openness, I'veheard some really full-on stuff
from some people where peoplewould be like if that was just
to say, if you shared that insomewhere that wasn't in the
(31:37):
neurodiversity community, peoplewould be like whoa, what's?
up with this person but in ourcommunity it's almost like it's
just normal, if that makes senseand and it's almost a sigh of
relief when you can be in thatand you're not seen as maybe
(31:57):
weird, or it's almost a sigh ofrelief when other people are
just as weird as you are.
I don't know if that's the wordI'm looking for, but maybe
that's just how I felt fromother people outside of the
community.
If that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes, that sort of acceptance that you might do
things differently.
You know, and you know oh,don't worry, that's how he does
that you know.
It's far more accepting andunderstanding where you're
coming from, that you're notdoing it to hurt other people or
anything.
It's just how you are.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Or you know it's just .
Would it be correct to say thatyou know, because
neurodivergence is such a broadterm, it can be a lot of
different things, but given thatwe all understand that some
people have different brains,given that we all understand
that some people have differentbrains, we don't need to
(33:01):
understand why or how they gotto the behaviour or the thing
they said or the way that theyare.
We just are more willing toaccept that that might not mean
what it seems like it means,whereas I think a lot of
neurotypical people will look ata neurodivergent person's
behaviour and go, oh well, in myhead, you do that because
you're like this and they're notthinking they're not
understanding.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You're wild.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
That their way of thinking themselves into that
behaviour is fundamentallydifferent to how that person
might have gotten there.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yes, I think there's a lot of compassion in our
community where you know peopleare really willing to give
others their platform and acceptit.
I mean, that's not everyone.
There are some judgmentalpeople in our community,
absolutely, but often they sortof gradually soften.
(33:55):
They actually see how that sortof stuff is accepted.
So, yeah, we're getting there,we're improving how we educate
others and so they understandwhere we're all coming from.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
I mean, you know, you just think back five or more
years, you know, and just howmuch things have changed.
Then you go 10, 20, and it'slike barely existed.
So yeah, I'm happy with theprogress, but unhappy with the
progress, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Yeah, we can always do more.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, I do believe we've lost Will.
I think this is a first.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Did we just lose Will ?
We did lose Will.
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:35):
So we will just wait.
I think we lost our lag, though, so we might know where the
culprit was coming from.
Oh, okay, but I mean, I guess,with that side of things, when
you're first coming to a personmidlife and starting to coach
them, what are the commonquestions that you might hear?
Speaker 1 (34:59):
I just want to hear their story, and it's really
giving someone a chance toreally tell their story without
judgment.
You just as a you know and Irecommend this for everyone if
you just sit and listen topeople, it's so powerful and
then you have a chance to sortof reflect back what you've
(35:20):
heard.
And in coaching that's the keything it's often just reflecting
back and then when people hearyou say it, they go oh yeah,
you're right.
I'm like no, you said it, notme.
I'm just reflecting back whatyou said, and this is something
you could think about.
You know, sort of you give somecoaching around options if it's
(35:43):
needed, but yeah, it's reallymuch, it's very much.
Yeah, we lost you Will.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Welcome back Will.
Speaker 3 (35:51):
I think that is a neurodivergent mates.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
First, yeah, I know I was thinking oh my god, are
they gonna be right without?
Me, yeah, like come on and youguys just kept on flowing, so
that was good that was good forsome reason my.
I just lost internet connection, so okay.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Well, the lag seems to have fixed up now too, so
that's good.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
So I'm just trying to think what we were up to.
How do neurodivergent adultsadjust relationship expectations
in midlife?
Did we just answer that onebefore?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
A little bit, but I think we did, I think we did, I
think we're actually on to thisone what support helps
neurodivergent adults withmidlife relationship issues?
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Okay, yeah, I think I'll just go back to the last
one.
The one thing I'd say I didn'tactually get to say before is
that often trying to mask ourcommunity will do people
pleasing where they compromisethemselves so that other people
feel okay, because often we'requite sensitive and open and we
(37:00):
will shut down.
And I think that was a bigissue in my own relationship
that you know you have toactually look after yourself and
express yourself authentically,because otherwise people don't
really get to know you.
It's this image of you, and sothen when you hit hard times,
(37:20):
that inauthentic image cancrumble.
And yeah, so it's reallyimportant to be authentic that
was the support.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Sorry, that was such a huge thing for me when I was
having relationships in my wholelife until I had this big break
, because I recognized that Ineeded to have that break and
figure some stuff out.
But it was.
I was just like you know.
Everyone I was with seemed tobe in love with this image of me
(37:49):
and I thought it was somethingto do with being a musician or
whatever on stage or putting meon a pedestal.
It wasn't that.
It was that I didn't know whatI needed to communicate, what my
needs were, how to communicateit effectively.
I was trying but I had no ideaand so I wasn't effectively
communicating who I was and Iwas people-pleasing a little bit
because I was a bitself-conscious about my
(38:10):
neurodivergence and I wanted to.
You know, I've always beenstrange and I was self-conscious
about being strange, so I wastrying to be all these things
that I wasn't.
I wasn't communicating veryeffectively and I didn't
understand what my needs werevery well, and that'll sort of
change but, I, did just want toask.
There's probably a subset ofpeople listening right now if
they notice this topic.
(38:31):
What if you're in arelationship?
What have you been married formany years and then suddenly
this diagnosis happens?
How do you adjust at that thatpoint?
What's sort of the commonpilots there?
Speaker 1 (38:44):
Well, I think it's the same sort of principles as
then exploring yourself as youare, with that realisation, and
then keeping the channels ofcommunication open and finding
new.
There probably are better waysthat you didn't know you could
access, that were there, andthat realisation you can do
things differently and it's allokay and it'll be better.
(39:08):
I think you know the diagnosisoften creates this whole
revelation and you actually havea much better opportunity in
your relationships because it'sreally authentically you and I
think it still comes back in ourcommunity to you know, feeling
safe enough in the relationshipto be yourself and to say what
(39:34):
you need, your communication,how you need to communicate, and
also then also realising youreally need to listen as well to
the other person.
Always is that give and take andunderstanding it from your new
perspective of yourself.
Um, and with all of that, youmight have new perspective on
your stress and and your lovelanguages and all that sort of
(39:56):
thing unravels once you had thatdiagnosis.
So you're not quite a newperson, but you've got a new
perspective of yourself and howyou like things and how you
explain yourself.
I think is probably, and foryour partner to understand that
and come on the journey with youis really important.
Um, I think often that's wheresome relationships will part
(40:17):
ways, um, and so that's reallyimportant to work on.
It's a joint journey thatyou're on in a relationship.
Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, interesting, interesting, interesting.
You know, going on from that,what support helps
neurodivergent adults with?
I think you sort of answeredthat question.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
I think so yeah, the five key areas as far as I've
seen.
Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, I think we might go to coaching is what
else and self-work.
What you've done is reallyimportant, that self-work where
you're getting to know yourselfand and coaching helps with that
you can point you in the rightdirection and help bring it out.
But then there's also that timewhere you might need to work on
(41:09):
your stress managementtechniques and pre-plan your
communication with your partner.
You know, thinking about how,if it's something you want to
conflict, you need to manage,pre-planning it.
You know there's all sorts ofsensory approaches you can think
about and prepare yourself aswell, empower yourself.
You don't need the coach inthat the coach just gives you
(41:32):
the tools.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
The tools, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:36):
But you can do it.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, it was interesting.
So, you know and we're talkingabout people pleasing before and
you know, I remember I was withone of my exes and I should
have left her a long time beforeI did, and I think a big thing
for me was like, oh my God, thisperson, I'm going to break
(42:00):
their heart or whatever that is.
So that was on my mind and Ididn't want to be that person.
And then, you know, it ended upturning out that she ended up
finding another person leavingme anyway.
So I should have just done itanyway.
But what I'm sort of getting atwas, you know, and I sort of
blamed myself for a while therebecause I was like, you know,
(42:24):
why didn't I leave earlier?
Why did I let this happen?
And you know, for me it took mehaving to move overseas, travel
and refine myself just to buildthat, you know, because I think
as well, sometimes when you'rein maybe what do you call it
like unhealthy relationships, alot of things are said and it
(42:49):
can really knock thatself-confidence.
So it really took me having tomove overseas, to go and meet a
lot of people and, you know, forpeople to be like, oh yeah,
will is cool, and it made methink oh yeah, I am a good
person, people do like me andall of that type of stuff.
But you know, I will admit that.
(43:12):
You know, after that I wassingle for like nine years or
something because I was like Ithink a big thing was like going
oh my God, I've just come outof that relationship where I
couldn't even really be myself,I don't think, and then sort of
basing every other relationshipon that.
(43:35):
So it's like, oh my God, I needeveryone else who I need to
meet is going to this, and whenI explain this, they're going to
be like oh my God, I needeveryone else who I need to meet
is going to this, and when Iexplain this, they're going to
be like oh my God, that'sstrange, or whatever like that.
So I think that was the hardpart really trying to find those
next people, or even just beingaround people who understood.
Speaker 3 (43:58):
And you can't forget too, like in all of this, there
is another person you know andyou can be forget too.
Like in all of this, there isanother person you know and, um,
you can be as authentic as youwant you can, you can understand
your needs as well as you want,but the other person has to
actually, you know, make theeffort to understand this.
And if they're neurodivergent,it's a two-way street.
But even if they're not, it'sstill a two-way street as a
relationship.
Um, you need to be aware of ofhow your neurodivergence might
(44:21):
affect them and do your best tomanage anything that might be
negative about that.
But they also need to have abuilt-in understanding that
you're doing your best.
There might be a failure ratebuilt in with what you're doing
and make some accommodations aswell, and neurotypical people
have accommodations that theyrequire, sometimes just attached
(44:42):
to their personality.
They're like, well, I'm thiskind of person, so you know, so
it it, yeah, but that yeah thatother person does does need to
make the effort to understandwhat you're communicating to
them about your brain and how itworks.
Speaker 2 (44:58):
Yeah, but do you know what right I found that when
especially like I, you know,because dating changed after I
broke up with one of my exes,like it went into the whole uh,
you go on to a dating app andall of that and I just felt I
couldn't be my authentic self,where before that, I was able to
(45:19):
meet people and people could belike, oh my god, will's really
cool because they understand mypersonality, but you can't get
that through a dating app, whichwas really difficult.
So what I was finding was I'dbe meeting people and I just
kept on meeting the same similartype of people who I just no
(45:41):
longer wanted to be around, ifthat makes sense.
So they were into heavydrinking, still into drug use
and stuff like that, and I'mlike, oh my God, and I remember
even thinking.
I'm like is this, you know, isthis what I need to be to
attract someone?
Do you know what I?
mean, I'm like there's got to bedifferent ways.
(46:02):
And that almost causeddepression and anxiety within
myself, because it's like I'mtrying to do good now, I'm
trying to do way better thanwhat I did back in the day, but
it's like I'm getting dealt abad hand.
What have I done wrong?
Type of thing.
Speaker 1 (46:20):
So that's self-doubt and confidence starts to lack
yeah, absolutely, and thatenergy drawing in the wrong
people, um.
But with all of this, it's allabout safety, isn't it safety to
be yourself and finding thosespaces where you can, um, find
(46:42):
people who you can be safe with.
I mean, I know there is thatsort of thought that with the
dating app, at least you knowthey're interested in dating,
you're not just going somewhereand there's people who are not
interested and you're trying to,you talk to them with a
different intention, so at leastyou're all there with the same
intention.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
The only thing I've found with dating apps, for
example right and you know,maybe I'm wrong is that because
it's like a competition.
Do you know what I mean?
It's like playing bingo orsomething like that.
Sorry, my cat's jumping up onme.
So, like you know, you willconnect with someone and, as an
(47:20):
ADHDer, you're like, oh my God,here's someone new, let's start
talking.
And that person may not evenstart talking to you for days
and it's really incredibly hard.
And then you might be like, hi,how's it going?
And they're like, yeah, good.
(47:41):
And then you're going on a dateand it's draining.
You know it's so draining.
Um, I don't know, it was justso draining.
But I think the biggest thing Ifound was that what I enjoyed,
especially making friends, wasgoing and doing volunteer work
where I didn't have to be arounddrinking or taking drugs.
(48:06):
All of that.
Actually, it was funny becauseI was around, all of that.
I was actually helping homelesspeople on the weekends who were
drunk and on drugs, but youknow, we were helping them but
you were there doing somethingelse.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was finding I was
meeting really cool people.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
So I think the hard thing is realising that the
dating apps, for example, aren'tthe only way to meet people.
How do we find?
Speaker 1 (48:34):
these other ways.
I reckon it's, you know,finding places where you can
belong.
You know, like I'm not sayingAsperger's Victoria, but what
I'm saying is things likeplaying sport or you know, like
golf is good, or swimming ismore of a neurodivergent thing,
or, you know, joining councilactivities like cleanups and
(48:56):
things like that.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Well, can I say, you can get out there, well, even
just what I do within thecommunity.
So putting a podcast onspeaking at events.
I know that's business for me,but I meet so many people and
it's like that's like my drug,if that makes sense because I'm
(49:20):
meeting all these people.
I, I connect with them.
Hey, what's going on?
I make?
I'm always, you know, reaching,I know I reach out to you
sometimes, tamsin, and juststart conversations and stuff
like that, because I just cravesocial interaction um and this
(49:41):
has sort of helped with that,but sometimes it's not enough if
that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah, so that's that extrovert side of you.
I suppose it's harder for theintroverts among us who don't
get the energy from beingamongst people and that
isolation they can feel.
But you know, we talked aboutearlier how sometimes, even
within a relationship, you canfeel lonely and isolated if
(50:07):
you're neurodivergent,especially if you can't be or
you don't feel safe to really beauthentic.
Speaker 2 (50:14):
Well, I found that like the pandemic was really bad
for that for me.
So my partner she was wasworking, she was doing all the
covid testing, so she was crazybusy.
I was just at home on my ownthe whole time and I was just
going insane like I have never,because, like I would go to bed
(50:40):
when my partner would get home,she would wake up together,
she'd go to work and then I'd beon my own the whole day.
Then she'd come home, so it waslike I never saw anyone yeah you
didn't get that energy fix.
Yeah, it was crazy and that waswhere I really learned about
(51:03):
like loneliness, especiallywithin relationships as well,
and, um, you know how hard thatis to to deal with type of thing
.
Um, and it could even be nothaving guy friends to go and
just talk about guy stuff, orchick friends to speak about
(51:27):
women's stuff, and you know.
Or even a guy speaking havinglike I have a lot of female
friends as well, yeah, and youknow just all of that type of
stuff, you know, and it's reallyinteresting.
Once, I think the pandemicreally opened my mind to that.
Speaker 1 (51:48):
We have to make an effort in a way, if you really
want that connection, thatenergy connection.
Speaker 3 (51:56):
There's actually a study I think it was where was
it?
Yeah, oxford that showed, onaverage, the men who have the
best mental health and feel mostsatisfied with their personal
lives and their relationshipsspend two nights a week with
their friends.
So you know whether you agreewith the number or not, it's an
element that does actually haveto happen.
Hello everyone.
By the way, Sorry I dropped it.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Oh yeah, we're jinked .
Hey, you're back.
You guys are taking turns.
Speaker 3 (52:22):
We were talking before we jumped on about.
We were saying you know, oneday we'll have money for a
producer and a technical guy tomake sure everything runs
smoothly.
And you were saying Tamsin, oh,but I like the DIY.
You know?
Authentic vibe.
Was that authentic enough foryou?
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
It was great.
You know one goes off, theother comes on, you know Because
that's what we do every episode, you know.
Speaker 3 (52:44):
Yeah, yeah, this is two episodes in a row for me.
Speaker 2 (52:48):
Well, it was lucky that it wasn't like an episode
when it was just you and me,Photon John.
That would have been awkward.
Speaker 3 (52:54):
How do I keep on talking?
Speaker 2 (52:56):
here, but we have had that happen in the past
actually, but you know, movingon from this Tamsin.
So how do menopause or othermidlife changes affect
neurodivergent relationships?
Speaker 1 (53:11):
Well, I think that menopause and hormone change,
midlife is another.
It's a bit like neurodivergenceand how autism was.
There's hardly anything knownabout it.
And you look at all the stuffabout pregnancy and hormone
changes around that.
There is masses, there'svolumes, there's research,
there's all sorts of stuff whenit comes to menopause or for men
(53:35):
it's andropause.
At the same time there'snothing, there's hardly anything
, and what happens is it sort ofsneaks up on you.
You get this hormone change andit affects your mood, affects
your sleep.
You can't sleep, you get moreanxious generally, and women who
are neurodivergent had amidlife crisis Like that's way
(54:08):
beyond.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
At what age, out of curiosity.
Speaker 1 (54:11):
So midlife, I think, is from early mid-40s until you
know 60.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
So we're getting towards that age.
Food on john something to lookforward to, brother.
Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah but I think it's important to know about and
prepare can you prepare for it?
Speaker 1 (54:31):
oh, understanding that some people think that
they're getting depressed andthey've got, or you know,
there's all sorts of or it mightbe their autism or their ADHD.
But it's actually bigger thanthat.
It's their natural hormones aredropping off which help monitor
their mood and their life.
And to understand that thatstarted and it's happening, at
(54:55):
least you can start to putthings into place, to manage it
into place, to manage it.
And also because yourrelationships you know there's a
lot of conflict around the factthat you know your expectations
in relationships change as well.
And if you don't understand itand the general community
doesn't understand it, then it'sa big issue.
(55:15):
But I have heard I'm coaching alawyer going for partnership
and her law firm actually has amenopause policy.
Speaker 3 (55:26):
That just came in to help them, and andropause.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
Yeah, andropause policy because of these crises
that hit especially in law firms.
There's so many neurodivergentprofessionals like the highest.
Speaker 2 (55:41):
And I didn't realise yeah, so I didn't realise until
I started listening to a fewlike panels on like this that we
would see a lot of women wouldretire in like their early 50s
and people just thought, okay,that was normal for women to
retire then.
But they're saying that that'sprobably because menopause and
(56:06):
all of that.
Is that correct?
Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, it's a crisis and you look at work.
Is it work?
Is it my relationship or whatis it?
And often at work, becauseyou're finding difficulty with
sleep and that sort of thing oryour relationship issues are
slamming you in the background,your work is affected, um, and
often until now you reallycouldn't talk about.
(56:31):
Oh, you know, I've gotandropause, I've got a midlife
crisis.
It was sort of covered up, um,so at least that's becoming
something that's getting more,more spoken about and understood
.
Speaker 3 (56:43):
So you know we talk a lot on this podcast about
things you know, like I wastalking to my mum and her friend
the other day about how people,the younger generation in
particular they're all aboutkindness and they learn a lot
more about how people can bedifferent.
They learn a lot more aboutneurodivergence than we ever did
, which was nothing.
But you know, society islearning more and more to just
(57:07):
be a bit kinder.
When you don't understandsomething Is a midlife crisis,
maybe something we need to justtake a bit more compassion to
when we see someone we know orlove going through it, because
it's potentially to do withhormonal change and I think
that's spot on.
Speaker 1 (57:26):
It's that compassion and accepting that people will
struggle at stages and you know,that's that whole movement
around more understanding withmental health generally, I think
, which is great.
Speaker 3 (57:38):
People really write them off and understanding yeah.
When they're going through amidlife crisis.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Well, I think the reason why they write them off
is like they're thinking oh,they're lazy, they just don't
understand it, you know, and itprobably presents in a way that
they're not working and how theyused to work and it's very hard
to explain and forneurodivergent people that
sounds very familiar yeah so itis.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
It's this bigger thing of being understanding and
accepting that someone's moodat that time and it's not your
responsibility to change theirmood.
That's your boundary and youknow managing that part of the
relationship for you at work andat home.
Speaker 2 (58:25):
You know it's interesting as well.
You know it's it's interestingas well.
Like this might sound funny,but like we're seeing, like uh,
going back to dating and allthat type of stuff as well, um,
a lot of people are datingdifferent ages now.
So some men are dating olderwomen or some, um, or some older
(58:47):
men are dating older women, orsome older men are dating
younger women, or vice versa, orwhatever.
That looks like right.
Wonder, like that would be.
I'm just trying to think how Iword it.
I wonder how you know, becauselike people just wouldn't know
about what's going on with thattype of stuff, and how would
(59:10):
people, I suppose, cope when, inthose types of relationships, I
wonder, because things wouldchange.
Say, if you know, I'm not sure,like I don't know, sex drives
change or whatever like that,and then you know it's, I don't
know.
Is that an argument for?
Speaker 3 (59:32):
age-appropriate dating.
What's that?
Sorry, I said, is that anargument for age-appropriate
dating?
Oh, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
But like you would get into that and let's say
you've been dating someone forquite a while who's older than
you or whatever, Then thesethings start to happen.
You're like, oh my God, I'mnever dating someone older than
me again, because you know thatwas just grumpy, I don't know,
you know, it's just interesting,yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Yeah, I suppose that's ageism coming in as
another thing.
Isn't it another factor?
You've got all sorts ofdifferent isms that impact our
perspective of other people yeah, oh, that's not that's not me
being ageist, but I'm not sayingthat like, like that's a thing.
Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (01:00:20):
But um, yeah, I worry about being that older guy.
You know what I mean.
That's why I'm definitelylooking for someone my age, but
I think you know.
Bringing it back around to thekindness thing, I think what
Will's talking about.
You know what is it endopause,menopause and you know
(01:00:41):
divergence.
I think, in general, just thereis an overarching theme of just
a bit more kindness andcompassion and not being so
quick to judge other people'ssituations, you know.
Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
And self-compassion I mean there's huge amounts of
work on that.
Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
I'm not ready to go.
I'm still learning.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Crazy, crazy.
We're getting to the end of thepodcast, so you know what
advice would you giveneurodivergent individuals
navigating midlife relationshipsand all of that type of stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:01:21):
Yeah, well, I think that does come back to what we
just said.
You know exploring yourself anddo what you can to learn more
about yourself.
Don't assume you knoweverything.
Speaker 2 (01:01:33):
And maybe your partner as well, correct?
Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, yeah, continue to learn.
Be open to learning and growing, I think, is the thing, because
a life is one.
I think someone said recentlyevery 18 months you go through a
transition in your life.
So you know, thinking that lifehasn't changed is not going to
protect you, because it's goingto hit you harder.
So I think it's being open tochange and growing, learning
(01:02:00):
about yourself, learning aboutother people and if that's
through coaching, that helps you, gives you more tools and more
perspective of yourself.
Yes, or other mentoring isanother getting a mentor, but
being open to knowing more aboutyourself and the world around
you, and I think our communityand neurodivergent are fantastic
(01:02:21):
at getting this great generalknowledge about everything
that's out there, thatinquisitive approach, and then
then needs to come back toyourself and relationships as
well, where we can strugglecrazy, crazy awesome stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:02:38):
Yeah, no, no.
Thank you so much.
Look awesome topic to talkabout, very interesting.
I think it's something we'vedefinitely been interested in
talking about before.
I wasn't 100 sure how the topic, what sort type of area it was
going to go into, so tamden.
Thank you so much for coming ontoday but for the therapy
(01:03:00):
session.
Yeah, yeah, yeah hopefullyphoton john can go away and, um,
uh, you know, get some tips onto help him with some stuff, and
I can definitely take a lot ofstuff away to help with my
relationship, all of that typeof stuff.
But if people can want toconnect with you or find out a
(01:03:21):
bit more about your work,where's the best place to go?
Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
It's probably at the moment my Facebook page, the
Neurodiversity Coach, and onLinkedIn, just up there as tans
and jowett.
That's the best connect through.
I've got calendly um links inthere so you can set up to have
a free chat with me um, just tosee what I can do what with what
you issues you're facing andhow we could go forward.
(01:03:47):
So I I think that's probablythe easiest, isn't it?
I don't have a website yet.
I'm still just underdevelopment.
Speaker 2 (01:03:54):
Oh, good Many of us?
Yeah, we'll get there, got tostart somewhere.
Right, got to start somewhere.
Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
Exactly.
If you want an SEO, just yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
If you want SEO?
See photo on John john.
He'll be able to help you, ohreally he's the king with seo
perfect, that's great okay, wecan.
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
We've got a.
Yeah, we can do something there, but thank you so much for
having me and, um, I know wedidn't get much time to prepare
and whatever, but I enjoyed it.
Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
No, I think we actually did pretty well.
I think you know, like we said,we had no idea what it would
sort of go off, as we had noplan, but we made it happen.
So we appreciate you coming andcoming on the podcast on short
notice.
I thank you so much, you nailedit.
(01:04:49):
What do you reckon Photon John?
Okay?
So, thank you so much, younailed it.
What do you reckon Photon John?
Okay, I reckon you'reabsolutely right.
Yeah, excellent, we both get abit of therapy out of this.
Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
Yeah, yeah, totally totally, totally.
Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
So, yeah, I think you're going to be an awesome
coach, so thank you so much forcoming on, Samson.
Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
So, for all of our listeners out there, if you
haven't already done so, pleasesubscribe, like and follow to
all of our social mediaplatforms.
My name is Will Wheeler.
Join with my main friend,Photon John, and this is
(01:05:32):
Neurodivergent Mates.
Until next time you.
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