Personal Branding for Neurodivergent Professionals - Darren Clark

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Join us on this episode of Neurodivergent Mates as we welcome our special guest, Darren Clark.

Darren will be diving into an essential topic: Personal Branding for Neurodivergent Professionals. Whether you’re navigating your career, building your business, or simply looking to make a mark in your industry, personal branding is crucial.

Darren, who is an expert in this field, will share valuable insights tailored to the unique strengths and challenges that neurodivergent individuals face. Learn how to harness your authentic self to create a brand that stands out and resonates with others.

QUESTIONS:
 
1. Tell us a bit about yourself
 
2. Tell us a bit about your work
 
3. Why is personal branding so important for neurodivergent professionals?
 
4. How should branding be different for neurodivergent professionals?

5. How should neurodivergent professionals identify the best branding for them?

6. What are the methods through which neurodivergent individuals can build their brand?

7. What have been some of the positive outcomes of your personal branding as a neurodivergent professional?

8. Where can people connect with you and your work?

All episodes are brought to you by neurodiversityacademy.com 

To check out more episodes, visit all our social media platforms or check us out where you listen to all your podcasts.

#neurodiversity #neurodivergent #dyslexic #entreprenuer #leadership #podcast

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 2 (00:05):
You're listening to NeuroDivergent Mates.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of NeuroDivergent mates.
I'm your host, will Wheeler,joined with my main man, photon

(00:28):
John.
What's going on, brother?
Enjoying health, enjoying health, enjoying health, mate Pretty
sick last week.
Yeah, man, pretty sick, but thebest thing about it is you're
on the mend, mate.
You're here for the show,you're here to rock and roll.
That's the main thing, mate.
Otherwise we would have to putout a put out a post looking for

(00:49):
a new co-host or something.
I think I probably you know, ifit was that bad, mate, I would
have waited a little bit longerfor your mayday.
A little bit of respect, that'sgood yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah, exactly man, but what'sthe weather been like where
you've been, mate?

Speaker 3 (01:08):
It's getting warm again.
I'm pretty happy because it waslike well, you know, it was the
Queensland version of freezingcold for a while, Like a good
two, three weeks or something.
What about?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
you guys.
Oh crap here man, but I've beendown in Melbourne for Edutech
the past week.
And like for those of you whoknow what Melbourne weather's
like, it can be very touch andgo, but this was beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:36):
Like I was just on, cloud nine, my friend, well, I
wasn't actually on cloud ninebecause there was not a cloud to
be seen.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
It was just unreal.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Did you?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
get to walk along the arrow or anything yeah, I did,
I did, I did.
I did a little bit just before,like my talks and all of that
type of stuff, trying tode-stress and all of that.
So, no, it was good.
But I tell you what man.
We should really get stuck intothis today.
We got an awesome guest all theway from the uk.
Today, what we're going to becovering is personal branding

(02:05):
with my good actually I shouldsay this properly personal
branding for neurodivergentprofessionals with Darren Clark.
Darren, how are you, my friend?

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, very well, guys .
Thank you so much for having meon no problem mate, no problem.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
You were just muted there for a sec, but we well, we
got you there in the in the end.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
um, it's been a while since I've seen you, my friend
yeah, I, I think the last timewe kind of um spoke, uh, we we
set up during lockdown, we, weset up that clubhouse, um, oh,
that's right, um, and we didthat for for neurodivergence, um
, and and that was, yeah, thatthat was.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
That was great because we were able to kind of
continue the conversation, Iguess, of uh people around uh,
that was deadly for me, mate,because, um see, like it was, um
, what's the way I'm looking for?
So it was very late at nightand I think it was early in the
morning for you guys.
So, like I'd sit down, have adrink of wine and then, before I

(03:08):
knew it, I knocked off a wholebottle and I'm on this like on
this clubhouse thing, I'm likeman, I've got to go.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
I felt, though, it was great.
It was super relaxed and it wassuper informative and I think,
at that time, when people werelooking for connectivity, I
think it We've all spoken abouthow that particular clubhouse
has spoken about on the podcastbefore how much it kind of saved
him during lockdown.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yeah, I think it was good to just have a little bit
of connection there.
Yeah, I think it was good tojust have a little bit of
connection there, but I think aswell, sometimes it what's the
word I'm looking for Like it wastoo many people relied on it
then.
So it was like I was going andlike I don't know about yourself
, darren, but I was goingthrough a lot of, like you know,

(04:03):
emotional stuff type of thingwhen you're locked up, can't
speak with people, can't get out, do your normal thing.
So when a lot of people wererelying on you to be on a
clubhouse every Saturday orwhatever it was, that was really
difficult for me because I justwanted to sit back, chill and
have a few glasses of wine.

(04:23):
But then it became a bit of abigger thing within itself, if
that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
Absolutely it did.
It grew, um, it went from justan idea to then doing posts
about it and promoting it andand you know, and then it people
were talking about it and thenit just naturally, organically,
grew and and that was the thetricky part of of people just
sitting there going, okay,what's you know?
Let me get some informationfrom will, let me get some

(04:50):
information around.
What was you know?
What can you tell me?
How can you help?
And I guess sometimes peopledon't understand some of the
struggles that you're going onbehind um, behind closed doors,
in that sense yeah, yeah,totally, I continue after
lockdown the clubhouse?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
no, I think, like after lockdown, we just became
like two getting back to lifebecause, like, do you?
Who uses clubhouse these days?
No one that I know.
If you use clubhouse, pleaseput it in the comments and we
can see if you use clubhouse.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Yeah, I think it was a sign of the times in that
sense.
It was very popular, but, yeah,I've not used.
I must have a profile there,but I've not used it.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
See the thing I found with Clubhouse, for example,
like it was cool.
At first it was a novelty andthen it just became.
I just felt that some of thepeople sharing information, it
just wasn't right.
I would sometimes sit therethinking, turn off your mic Not
you, darren, but I was thinkingabout other people.

(05:55):
Like, just turn your mic off.
You sound like you're dribblinggarbage out of your mouth.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (06:02):
I just felt that some people would speak absolute
crap, crap you know, but therewas no way to interject and it
was very difficult.
When you have just pure audio,like you know, sometimes you can
understand social cues by, andthat's why I love videos and I
love being able to see someone'sface when I'm speaking to
someone.
But when you're purely audio,it's very difficult.

(06:24):
Um, yeah, and not feel you'rebeing rude for interjecting,
totally so it's, yeah, it's it.
It was a massive, fine balanceon all levels.
But I.

Speaker 3 (06:36):
I didn't go on it a bit and I was more of a lurker
because you know, sort of autismdominant over the ADHD, and the
first couple of months oflockup I absolutely loved not
seeing anyone.
But then you know, after I'mlike, well, even I like people,
it seems, because I'm going outof my mind here.
But I thought with less visualsocial cues it might be easier
to communicate with people, butthere's still cues within

(06:56):
language and tone of voice, andso I actually didn't win worse
with that.

Speaker 2 (07:01):
Definitely interesting, but what we might
do?
We might save all of this greatconversation because I just
want to do a little bit ofhousekeeping and then we can get
stuck into all the awesomestuff that darren's going to
share with us on the podcasttoday.
So, if you haven't already doneso, please subscribe, like and
follow to all of our socialmedia pages.
We're available on tiktok,facebook, instagram, x, twitch,

(07:25):
youtube, linkedin, and also, too, you can check us out wherever
you listen to your podcast.
Also, too, if you haven'talready done so, please check
out all the work we're doingwith neurodiversityacademycom.
We've got some really coolstuff coming up there shortly.
Photon john's got some reallycool stuff coming out with the
marketing side of stuff, sowe're really looking forward to

(07:46):
that.
Also, too, you know, maybe someof the stuff that we're talking
about today may be triggering.
If you need help, please reachout to a loved one or call
emergency services.
We are not doctors.
This is a space for sharingexperiences and strategies for
sharing experiences andstrategies Also, too.

(08:07):
If you have any questions,please pop it into the comments
section on our social mediapages there, as we'd love to
hear them during the live show.
There we go.
Nailed that one.
What do you reckon, photon John?

Speaker 3 (08:19):
We need to start recording that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, just pressthat.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
We've got someone already jonathan mcdonald.
Hey, hey, dyslexic thinking, doyou?

Speaker 1 (08:31):
know that person, um uh darren I, I'm, I'm better
with faces um okay, yeah, it's abit hard to hard to know that
person hang on on that's evenbetter, yeah, I like that one
Good stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Jonathan McDonald, what a legend.
All right, let's get stuck intothis.
So you know, like I said, I'veknown you for a little while now
, Darren, but you know, tell usa little bit about yourself and
yeah, let's just hear a bit.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
So first off, um, if we talkabout dyslexia, uh, and adhd, I
was actually diagnosed withdyslexia at the age of 36, so
prior to that there was a lot ofkind of um, I guess,
misunderstanding of how, uh, I,I guess I I perceived the world
and where I fit, fitted in, um.
So I'll really kind of reallybriefly take you back to school,

(09:25):
and education in the UK for mewas very difficult.
I grew up in a very kind ofrough area, I guess, and the
school was a little bit of kindof a school of hard knocks and I
subsequently didn't succeedvery well in school.
I was kind of kept back fromall lessons of maths and science
and humanities and languagesand all the other kind of key

(09:47):
subjects of English as well.
I'm pretty much just allowed todo PE, so physical activities
and drama and, I think, woodwork.
I think that was kind of thethree things for the five years
of education I had, and I waspretty much left in a porter
cabin in the middle of theschool field for five years,
just education I had, and I waspretty much left in a porter
cabin, um, in the middle of theschool field for five years,
just doing current in.

(10:08):
So that was kind of theeducational side of
understanding someone who wasmisdiagnosed with dyslexia and
just couldn't really kind ofgrasp the lessons that they were
given.
And it wasn't because I wasdisruptive, I was just I was
like the white kid.
I was always put my hand uplike why you're asking questions
, and it came apparent that anyexams or any um information they

(10:30):
were giving me I wasn't beingable to retain and I was
thinking you know vividly that.
You know why didn't I get it?
Everyone else got it, why don'tI get it?
And and this became a a bit ofa struggle, um, so subsequently
left school five years, um, Ididn't do sixth form or college,
university or anything likethat, and even though I was

(10:51):
going to a port of cabin whichwas freezing cold in the winter
and boiling hot in the summerand just giving colour and in
books to do and the occasionallessons I still attended every
single day and my lessons Inever missed school once.
So left school with noqualifications and then that for
me was a bit of a lightningbolt Because I thought to myself

(11:11):
you know, what can I do now?
I now have options.
I'm not told to go and sit in aroom, do kind of in there I can
actually start seeing what theworld can offer.
But it's very difficult leavingschool with no qualifications
Because when you have to fill inan application form and create
a CV I didn't know what a CV wasrecruiters are not going to

(11:32):
want to employ you Because inthat top right-hand box in the
UK this is back in the day whenyou would print out the
application form.
We would struggle to fill inthat box when you have to put
what grades you've got.
That was always left blank.
So that really kind of pushedme as a bit of vantage to
getting jobs Fast forward reallyquickly.

(11:53):
When I got my first job in asupermarket, pushing trolleys 12
hours a week, absolutely lovedit and it was the best job
because actually I wasn't beingjudged.
I wasn't.
I could actually earn somemoney and I can actually make
sure that I can, you know,deliver this job.
And, and the thing is well, Ialways think to myself any job
that you've got is so importantwithin an organization, whether

(12:15):
you're leading the store,whether you're running it or
whether you're pushing thetrolleys and filling up the
baskets because I've always hadthis mentality that if I don't
make sure that the shoppingcarts are available for the
people to use, then they're notgoing to be able to fill up the
goods, purchase it and keep it,the whole kind of motion, you
know the whole, the wholeoperation going.

(12:37):
So it's that mindset that'sallowed me to really kind of
propel in life.
So I don't actually see anyrole is superior.
I see that every role has aplace, plays into the other
parts type of thing absolutely,and I think that's the mindset
that I've had throughout my life.
So the, the careers that I'vehad, so that subsequently, even
though it's 12 hours a week justworking in retail, I then grew,

(12:59):
uh, several different retailoutlets and grew up and become a
regional director for one ofthe biggest chains in the UK of
of the supermarket.
So from small steps you cangrow the, the, the
entrepreneurial side, like youguys.
For I don't know whether it's adyslexia thing, uh, whether
it's an ADHD thing, but it'ssomething that's always been in

(13:20):
me.
And after I left, left theretail side of it and started
several different businesses,some we grew quite substantial,
some we sold, some we you knowwe had problems during COVID in
that sense, but there's alwaysbeen this entrepreneurial spark
in me, where the dyslexia sidecomes in.

(13:42):
When I got diagnosed at the ageof 36, the biggest thing that I
learned from me was forgivingmyself and being kind to myself,
because for all thosepromotions that I didn't get, or
for those jobs that I didn't Ididn't get, or anything of these
things, or if a business failed, or if a business or if there
was a problem with these things,I would always look back and
think, oh, you know, could Ihave done something different?

(14:03):
You know, was there somethingthat I?
I've always look back and think, could I have done something
different?
Was there something that I'vedone wrong?
And I think, with the dyslexiaside of it, it's allowed me to
really understand and forgivemyself for these things, for
everything I've done, thoughI've never outsourced my
marketing.
I've never outsourced mypersonal branding.
It's something that I've done.
Whether we've grown a business,whether it's the stuff that
I've done, it's purely been, youknow, a teaching thing for me.

(14:26):
So I've learned myself foryears and years and years on how
to, I guess, get my message out, and hopefully I'll be able to
share that with you.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, no, awesome.
So we won't refer Fodon John andhis expertise to you, mate,
because it sounds like you doall of it yourself, mate um so
for I'm not sure if you know, um, that, um, photon john actually
has like a, um, a marketingbusiness, so like digital
marketing.
So, um, when, when we weretalking about you coming on and

(14:58):
talking about this, uh, we wererather excited.
Photon john was probably alittle bit more excited.
Oh, I was excited, but he waslike man, I can't wait for this.
This is gonna be awesome, butno, no, it's actually
interesting.
Um, you know you were sayingthat you came from sorry, was it
london you grew up in?
Is that what you said?
No, bristol, oh, bristol, okay,okay, okay, yeah, bristol.

(15:20):
Um, yeah, my mom was.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
My mom was born there , Okay yeah, Bristol.
My mum was born there.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Oh, is she born in Bristol oh there you go.

Speaker 3 (15:28):
We're going to go and take her over there next year.
So you could get an Englishpassport.
I could have if I hadn't foundout too late.
No, you have to be a certainage to get it.
You can age.

Speaker 2 (15:43):
Really, oh really, wow crazy.
I never knew that.
Well, there you go, you learn anew thing every day.
But I would have assumed yourmother could still get a
passport.
She's still an.
English citizen oh okay,interesting, interesting um.
So we've got a cop.
We've got a comment here.
Oh no, sorry, I thought itmight have been based on um

(16:04):
passports or something like that, but it's okay, but we're not
ignoring it, we're just, uh,talking about that.
But you know you were sayingthat, uh, you you came from a
pretty rough area.
Is that what you were sayingbefore?
Like was that, like I don'tknow, like um, was there a lot
of drugs in that area?
Was a lot of fighting?
Like, were you like gettinginto fights all the time, or

(16:26):
what?

Speaker 1 (16:27):
yeah, there was a lot of um.
I grew up, I was born in 76, sokind of the 80s, 80s and 90s uh
, and and the area there was ahuge population uh in in like a
burst.
So when we're talking you knowkids sitting on street corners.
It wasn't like one or two, it'slike 30 to 40.
And there was where the area ofbristol is is set up.

(16:49):
Uh, you have is where we lived.
It was like a horseshoe soyou'd only come into the area
that we were coming in.
If you knew someone you don'treally kind of, you have to go
into that area and we had uh,different areas, uh, um around
uh, so we had like withywood andhartcliffe and southmead and

(17:09):
knoll and all of these differentsegments around.
All had a lot of gangs and everynow and again where the
pressure was, that side of itwould come into this side that
come, and then it would just bea free-for-all um.
And then there was there was alot of um poverty in the sense
of um a lot of break it.
We got broken into our house wehad.

(17:30):
We had like a council house, atwo-bed council house house, so
it was my mum, dad and my twobrothers, um, and we got broken
into I think it's like 12 timesover a period of my childhood um
, car stolen, even fish takenout of the pond, um, so it was.
It wasn't purely us targeted,it was purely in the sense of

(17:51):
that's kind of what happened.
Um, and, and it was, yeah, theschool was rough and the area
was rough and there was a lot ofit was quite easy to fall into
gangs.
Um, my dad was, um, not strictin the sense of strict, but he
was very, he was very methodicalin the sense that that's not
the route that you need to godown.
But it would have been so mucheasier because I would have got

(18:13):
into less fights and, you know,wouldn't have to jump over walls
to get home sometimes.
Yeah, crazy.
Because, purely because it was,you know it's like anything,
isn't it?
It's community.
If you join that side, thenyou're protected in some aspects
, but then you have to go withthe other side of it as well.
And so I've always been a bitof a loner in that sense,

(18:40):
because I've never really kindof trust.
That trust element for me isit's is a big thing, because I
think, okay, if I give you mytrust and I join that gang, for
instance, then what do I give upin that, in that purpose?
And I never really wanted tolet my, my parents down, so that
was a really.
It felt tough at the time, um,and there was a lot of I guess a
lot of childhood trauma in thatsense.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Um, see like it's interesting.
So kev, like I definitelydidn't come from an area like
that, but kev, I'm thinkinglogan, where you were, where you
grew up, was definitely likethat type of thing correct.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
We moved around a lot , so, um, and that was because
mom was.
You know, we started um in abad area.
Mom was always trying to moveus to better areas but there
were a few stops on the way.
You know that were uh, roughplaces.
So yeah, I definitely grew uplike that.
But it's funny, I think, youknow you can have a drive to get
to better yourself growing upin an area like that.

(19:36):
But I think being you're adivergent and living in here
like that, the drive is sort ofdouble, because you're already
kind of thinking I don't like ithere, I don't belong here.
You might be thinking that ifyou weren't in a rough area, but
you kind of double down on that.
And you know, mum reallyinstilled that in us, a sense of
just constantly betteringyourself and trying to move on
up in life.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Absolutely so move on up in life.
Absolutely so beautifully put.
I I've always strived forsafety, um, and I never realized
it was that element, and Ialways thought, if I can go to
sleep and not have to worry thatyou know a brick's going to
come through the window orsomeone's going to take this and
this, this, this, and I, I'vebeen very fortunate in the sense
of I've worked incredibly hard,um, you know to, to allow that,

(20:19):
uh, you know to allow that, youknow to work towards that, but
that's something that I didn'trealise until a few years' time,
that it was purely the safetyelement.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Can I ask, do you ever go back to that area and
has that area changed since youwere growing up?
Because, like say, for example,here in Australia, a lot of
areas that were once very badplaces are actually very
expensive places to live now.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
I now live in that area.
I just mentioned that I wasborn in, yeah, yeah yeah,
because it's 40 years later andit's actually cool.

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Sadly, I have been back to that area.
When I started doing, when Istarted my my uh first couple of
businesses, I wanted to giveback and start speaking in
schools about business andentrepreneurship and then it
developed then into dyslexiaawareness, um, and I've spoken
to probably just over 10 000students.
It was it.

(21:16):
But the very first school talkthat I wanted to do was in my
old school, uh, which is crazywhen you think about it, because
the the school that I uh wentto as a child isn't there
anymore.
It is, but they've turned itinto an academy.
Um, before, if I showed youpictures, I probably got some on
linkedin, but there's picturesof school.
It looks like, I don't know,like a prison in some aspects in

(21:39):
, you know, in the third worldcountry, because you've got, you
know, barbed wire around theoutside and the school just
looked, you know, it was quitehellish really, but it's an
academy now.
So the school has improvedmassively.
The area there is still a lotof um, I guess I wouldn't say
poverty to to an extreme in thatsense, but it's not.
We haven't.

(21:59):
We haven't built these massiveflats and townhouses.
In that sense it's very muchthe same as it was beforehand
and the crime, sadly, is stillthere Interesting.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Some places just don't change.
Eh yeah, interesting.
Now you know you mentioned alittle bit about.
You know you sold yourbusinesses and all of that and
then wanted to go and domotivational talks at schools
and you'll stand looking at thedyslexia side of things.
So maybe tell us a little bitabout the work that you actually

(22:31):
do.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, absolutely so for me.
Over the many years we hadseveral different businesses and
then we got some managingdirectors in to run these and I
guess the biggest thing for mewas being diagnosed at 36,
understanding.
I mean, I'm 47 now and I'mstill trying to understand my

(22:52):
own dyslexia and ADHD, and thisis the thing we don't have.
Suddenly you don't just have anepiphany and everyone says okay
, so you know, you get diagnosedor you can self-diagnose.
I'm not saying that you have to, whatever it is, but the
biggest thing is just trying tounderstand who you are and how
you can work to the best of yourability and work with others.
So the school talks really camearound.

(23:13):
How do I get my message out andstart helping individuals
understand themselves more?
And the journey started byliterally and this is the thing
I believe now, with the power ofLinkedIn, for instance let's
just take LinkedIn, for instanceyou can speak to whoever and
you've proven this, guys, withhaving such incredible guests on

(23:34):
your podcast we can now connectwith whoever we want to connect
on your podcast.
We can now connect with whoeverwe want to connect the, the,
the.
You know, the barriers are downin the sense.
Yeah, it may take a little bitof time, but we can.
We can actually speak towhoever we want to speak to.
And when I changed thatmentality I thought, really, who
?
Who can I speak to?
Who can I interview?
Can I talk to?
Who can I?
What can I do?

(23:55):
Who can I work with?
What organization do I want towork with?
And I really do feel we can dothis.
So what I did is I startedthinking okay, let's go in and
do a school talk.
I've never done a school talkin my life.
This was many, many years ago.
But how do I do this?
So literally got on the phoneand phoned the school and asked
them do you do school talks?

(24:16):
Yes, okay, can I come in and doone?
That literally just those youknow there's a couple of words
started the ball rolling tospeaking in, uh, mostly, you
know, in the uk.
Like I said, over 10 000, 100000 students over a period of
time I've spoken in in um, inisrael, in america, in kenya, in
bali, uh, in malawi, and it allstemmed from literally just

(24:39):
asking the question.
So to give you an idea of how itwent from doing school talks to
then starting to work overseas,I contacted, so I went on to
the IDA's website, so theInternational Dyslexia
Association's website, and atthe very bottom of there, there
you have all the partners of who.

(25:01):
Uh, actually, so with the idea,just like the bda and stuff
like this, so british sexassociation, you can pay um to
support them.
Uh, with the idea, you canbecome a partner, which means
you pay a subscription fee orwhatever it looks like, and then
you become a partner, but youhave to obviously be an
organization in there.
You can't just you know, it'snot just anyone can be on there.

(25:22):
Now, there was seven.
At the time, in 2018 I think itwas there was 76 different
organizations that wereassociated with the ida.
So with myself, my partnerbecause I always find it very
difficult putting emailstogether we put together this
email and we personalized it toall 76 different organizations
and we just asked the question.
We put together this email andwe personalized it to all 76
different organizations and wejust asked the question.

(25:44):
We said and this is after I'vedone the school talks and I
thought how can I make a biggermessage?
How can I get further afield?
And I literally wrote to themand said how do I?
So what?
One of those was 77.
77th was the actual idea.
How do I get involved in theidea?
Okay, just asked a question andI said to them I'm a guy from
Bristol in England.
I run a couple of businesses.

(26:06):
I'm looking to spread moreawareness around dyslexia.
Have you got an event?
Can we create an event?
How can I help and how can Iserve you?
It was something around thosekind of those, those words, and
I didn't even think for oneminute that they were going to
start coming back.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
I mean, it's just like a random like I guess it's
like an email saying you've wonthe lottery or something you
know one of these emails.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
But I was surprised.
I got a lot of no's back and Igot a lot of um, no replies.
Okay, so I'm not saying thatall 76 different organizations
just say, yeah, darren, come on,this is this.
But I got several emails backand some of them were absolute
gems and they then propelled thework that I did later on in
life.
So there was an email come backfrom two sisters in, uh, in

(26:51):
Kenya.
Um, I don't know if you'reaware of them, phyllis and Nancy
.
Uh, they run a school calledthe Rare Gem Talent School.
Uh, in Nairobi in Kenya.
Uh, do phenomenal, phenomenalwork, and their story and their
history of what they've done isjust I think about.
Sometimes I've grown up andthings are a bit rough, but
their journey has just beenabsolutely incredible.

(27:11):
They came back and said we wouldlove you to be able to help,
maybe we could do an eventtogether, and then it was open.
So I thought, okay, this is myopportunity.
The blank canvas, what can wedo?
I've never been to Kenya before, so, but within six weeks of
that first email coming backfrom them, I'd flown over to

(27:32):
Nairobi, we'd created an eventwith all of the local villagers
and their school, which was verysmall at the time, I think it
was about three 350 people inthis kind of hut thing,
scorching heat, absolutelyincredible and we put together,
uh, the most incredible day ofawareness around dyslexia.
That's awesome.
And we then went back and wewere able to do some fundraising

(27:54):
and bits and pieces on thatside of it.
But then that springboarded andthis is the thing when we talk
about, um, personal branding andand what can you do and how you
perceive that springboard tosomething else, that springboard
israel, bali and things likethis, but yeah, that's all sorry
.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
can I just ask and I remember you talking about this
and I just think it might beinteresting to share was it you
when you were over there inAfrica?
It was Africa, right, or Kenya,sorry, yeah, which?
Is in Africa right Didn't likethe king or the president or

(28:32):
whoever it was.
Wasn't their daughter diagnosedwith dyslexia, and can you
share the story of that, becauseI just think it's an
interesting?

Speaker 3 (28:42):
story to hear.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Yeah, yeah, no, hear it and hear what they did and
what the country was going onabout.
It's interesting.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
And this is on a newscast so you can actually
find at the time you could findit, so you could Google it and
find this interview, okay.
So whether it's there now, Idon't know.
So I've gone over to Kenya andI've asked the questions.
I said what was your biggestbarriers?
And they said, obviously,finances, and funds, absolutely,

(29:09):
you know to to to make sure,and there's a lot of things and
I will mention those, those sideof it.
But they then showed me I wasactually over there at the time
and they showed me I wasactually over there at the time.
They showed me this clip and itwas the, the king or president,
like I said, I think it was theking and he came on and he had
these reporters around and nextto him he had his niece, um, and
she stood there and she musthave been seven or eight, I

(29:31):
think it was, and she lookedvery, very sad.
Bless her, um.
And he did this news interviewand he said my niece, he put his
hand on her head, he said myniece has dyslexia and they were
all like like this, and he saidI'm sending her away to the
island to be cured and then theybroadcast this out, okay.

(29:54):
And then they said I'm going tobid her, you know, because it's
very kind of religion basedover there in that sense, what
they see of it it's like a curse.
So you're going to send heraway and she's going to be cured
, okay.
And then he continued talkingabout the, the curse of dyslexia
and how he's going to do.
I think it was about a weeklater or a few days later, don't
quote me on that, but it was alittle bit of time after they
then re-interviewed this um kingpresident with the daughter

(30:19):
still looking very sad, and hesaid she has come back from the
island, she is cured of the evil, dyslexia oh my god evil and I
was like how, how do you evenbegin?
we talk about raising awarenessand we're very fortunate in the
uk because we have look, we haveso many different organizations

(30:40):
.
We're very fortunate in the ukbecause we have, we have so many
different organizations.
We have the bda, so thechristian sect association,
which is like, and then we haveall of these incredible
different organizations.
We still have trouble raisingawareness for this.
Go to a country where the kingcan basically whatever he says
is goes.
You know what you, you everyonehangs on what he says, and that

(31:02):
is the perception of how you'reseen with dyslexia you.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
You answered the question I was gonna ask without
even asking which is um?
What is awareness like um inthose areas?
So yeah, wow, that's intenseit's to a point.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
So.
So when and this was shared bythe sisters, you know, when they
first started out, theirchildren were kind of like sort
of kicked out of schoolbasically.
So they get to kind of likesecondary school, so high school
age, and they start thinkingactually they're not getting the

(31:39):
grades that they need andsometimes, obviously, it brings
the school down.
And this happens I think thisis a global thing in kenya um,
because the school needs to hita certain demographic of of of
things.
So they were left in asituation where they had to
homeschool, um, their children.
Now, this, obviously, um, it'svery difficult because if you

(32:02):
have a child that's not inschool, it can can bring shame
onto the village because they'reasking questions on why is that
child not at school?
So the difficulty they have isthen they're.
They then set up their ownschool, but it was very much
frowned, you know, frowned uponthat they had this.
However, they then startedgetting an influx.
So the two sisters wereeducating their two their

(32:24):
children at home and what theyhad to do was they then got an
influx of all of these differentpeople that would continuously
contact them because the stateschool wasn't, um, you know,
accepting them in.
They had to then move it.
They since grew that school.
I think they I mean, theystarted off with two pupils, uh,
when I was there, they had 196children, um, and then it's

(32:45):
since grown, uh, since then.
But that's this.
Just take us.
Just take, take from 2018, 200children that are not getting
the education that they needbecause they're not allowed to
sit in those safe schools.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
And also too, just like with like such a large
public figure describingdyslexia in the way that they
are.
It's just so detrimental to allthe hard work you know those
people are doing and yourselfgoing over there and all of that
type of thing.

Speaker 1 (33:21):
You can't really begin to market that as, in
marketing, how do you promotesomething that has such a strong
bias of being so detrimentaland such a bad thing?
You know you can't.
It's incredibly difficult.
So you have to really and thisis where you have to really kind
of think out of the box andturn it on its head and think

(33:42):
how can I speak about sex in apositive way if it's been
perceived as that and that comes?

Speaker 2 (33:47):
that's, that's a whole, you know and I think
that's where, like you know therest of the world, like we
probably just take all this,what, what we're talking about,
for granted, right.
We think, yeah, you know thisand that where there's still
other parts in the world where,yeah, it is just like even like
the Asian countries close toAustralia, there's real still

(34:11):
big trouble there.
I think even on that clubhousethat we had remember, there was
a few Asian people get on andthey're like, oh yeah, no, it
was just never spoken about inschool, you weren't allowed to
ask questions, all of that typeof thing we had that I presumed
that when I went from kenya toum, to malawi, I I just thought,

(34:34):
well, actually you know theywould know a little bit more, or
at least they would know.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
But in malawi, um, you would mention dyslexia,
sometimes didn't even know whatthe word was.
Um, you know, and you know I'veworked with an, an incredible
organization out there that in2019, if you Google dyslexia,
malawi, there was nothing.
Now, if you type it in, you getthe Able Foundation and Jaranji
, who's done some phenomenalwork.

(34:59):
But we toured the whole ofMalawi, from the Longle to
Blantyre or Blantyre to Longle,with a pop up banner, going into
churches and schools and justtrying to speak about it and
raise awareness.
And she's got a school outthere now and there's other
organizations and it's justphenomenal.
But it can.
This is the thing.
It can grow, um.
But you have to think everysingle time you go into a

(35:21):
different country or if you're,you're looking to raise
awareness or it's very difficultyou almost it can become a
little bit kind of exhaustingsometimes because you have to
kind of step back and you go, ohokay, so the conversation I'm
having with you now, you get it.
But if I go into a differentcountry, if I speak to someone
else, they don't get it.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
And then well, well it's.
It's actually interestingbecause, especially with
neurodiversity academy, we'regetting a lot of interns coming
on helping with the platform,some are going to be helping
Photon John with the marketingstuff shortly and the big thing
that we've got to do in theonboarding, because a lot of

(36:02):
these people are coming fromthose Asian countries and they
have no idea what it is.
We say, well, what is it?
Then they're like, oh,different brains.
And we're like we have to sitdown and go over it with them
because there just isn't thateducation there.
You know, and it's not theirfault.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
It's just interesting to see that if that makes sense
, I think we get to a stagewhere sometimes we can get
caught up in our own littlebubble.
So, like my LinkedIn feed isfilled with people talking about
neurodiversity, neurodiverse,dyslexia, dyscalculia, dyspraxia
you know dyspraxia, everything.
But sometimes when I come outof that world, the digital world

(36:45):
or the connections I'm speakingto, and then go into the real
life side of it, you know thatyou start having conversations
and they're like okay, oh, oh,you know and, and, and.
I think that's where we have toreally kind of find that, that
balance, in that sense that thefirst person you talk to about
this isn't going to get it orthey might.

(37:06):
It's different levels, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (37:10):
there's a very big bubble online in social media
with neurodivergent people.
And it's great, it's awesomethat the conversation is
happening, but I think sometimesyou can just sort of get caught
up in that little bubble andthe cycle inside of it and
forget that there's a largerworld outside that doesn't
understand this stuff that needsto.
You know, my heart really goesout to those kids you were

(37:31):
talking about earlier.
I mean, I can't imagine it.
I can imagine how hard it wasfor me in a country that is
fortunately a bit moreprogressed in, where the
conversation is at.
You know, Totally.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, there's more to it.
If you look into it or connectwith the sisters they can tell
you much more about that side ofit.
But they have done absolutelyin the circumstances.
They are in absolutelyphenomenal and I won't share too
much on here about that.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
But no, no, no.
I think it's phenomenal,phenomenal job I think it's just
important to hear that anddefinitely hear how different it
is in the Western worldcompared to other parts of the
world, all of that.
But I tell you what we probablyhave done a bit of an ADHD
thing and gone on a bit of atangent there, but it's

(38:22):
interesting information.
But you know, I think let's getback to what we were coming on
to to talk about.
But why is personal branding soimportant for neurodivergent
people?
And I think we did sort of.
You know, if we think about itas well, maybe people who are
coming from those countries aswell, why could that be even
important for them as well?

(38:43):
Or you know, why is itimportant for neurodivergent
people, you think?

Speaker 1 (38:46):
I think it's important for for everyone, um
personal branding, and I alsothink um from a neurodiverse
point of view.
I think it's important for foreveryone, um personal branding
and I also think um from aneurodiverse point of view.
I think it's important becausewe feel that we've had our I
guess our voices restricted forso many years and this is why,
you know, I always find itfascinating that when I speak to
someone who's a speaker or abusiness person or someone who's

(39:08):
literally putting themselvesout, speaking in front of people
that that they are, they havedyslexia or ADHD or autism in a
sense, and they talk about thestruggles that they had where
they weren't able to speak up inclass or they won't be able to
speak up in the office, and thensuddenly this, you know,
they're on a stage where they'redoing these things with
podcasts and, in that sense, so,but there is a journey to get

(39:29):
there, and I think this is wherewe sometimes take for granted
of the analogy of you could bethe next Richard Branson, which
is great, and I would never saythat someone you know push down
on someone and say they couldn'tdo this, but the expectations
sometimes of someone strugglingin school or in their workplace
and to then become a billionaire.
You know that it's the middleground that we have to think

(39:52):
about.
I think it's important for youto really kind of strip back of
what, for me, for instance, hasalways been about my why and,
and my why has allowed me toreally kind of push through a
lot of the pain and the barriersthat I've had.
And I think, if you can, if youcan kind of identify and I know
sometimes someone, especially me, with ADHD, it's very difficult

(40:13):
to sit down with a pen andpaper and start writing these
things down but everything I doI strip right back to the mere
basis of what, what, how youstart something and how you
finish it.
Who is it that you want to be,who is it you?
What you want to do, who is ityou can serve, and that's been.
If you take business, forinstance, okay, everything

(40:33):
around business, it has aprocess.
Okay, whether I'm sellingwindows or I'm cleaning the
house or I'm doing a podcast,whatever it is that the, the
function of the actual business,is the same.
And I think if you can harnessthose skills in that sense, then
you will have a much clearerunderstanding of your why and
the process and also be able tomarket yourself in the best

(40:57):
possible light.
We find it very difficult,especially as brits, I guess
people from england talkingabout ourselves or bigging
ourselves up and it is a veryfine balance of saying I I'm
amazing, I'm brilliant, this,this and this, and being booked
for stuff or getting that newbusiness.
But you have to find thatbalance and I think from the

(41:18):
neurodiverse point of view, thatdoes make it more difficult
sometimes because you, you know,you can wake up one day and
think actually my onlinepresence, as you said, um, is
different to how I actually feel.
But I think if you can kind ofunderstand your why around, that
that will really kind of helppropel in that sense.

(41:40):
But I do think it's personalbranding is it is important
whether you're working in,working in a job for an employer
or you're doing your ownbusiness or whatever you're
doing.
I think it's absolutely key inthese days and that's why a lot
of businesses, you know, wethink of virgin, for instance,
and I mentioned richard branson.
But we think of virgin and wenaturally always think of the,

(42:02):
the leader, in the sense ofrichard branson.
Then we do the actual brand andI think that's been a very
clever way of being able to topush his brand, because we
naturally think of him overactually virgin it's almost like
richard branson, then virginand, I think, a lot steve jobs.
For instance, there's a lot of,I guess, leaders out there that
are that are the best ones.

(42:24):
I know are the ones that pushtheir brands.
Like we spoke about canva uh,you know, before we went on onto
this, uh, this talk, and wetalk about the owners uh, you
know who created this?
I think that's that's.
We're in a stage now wherepeople want to see behind the
scenes and it's not.
We can't just put a logo outnow and just expect that the
logo I mean, you can still dothis, I guess, with nike, and

(42:44):
even nike has a feeling behindit.
But, like coca-cola, forinstance, you know we don't buy
coca-cola with the owner's faceon it, but we know what we're
feeling.
So, I think, to understand thatbehind the scenes, I think
that's going to help, but Ithink it's important for
everyone, but especially forneurodiverse individuals.

Speaker 3 (43:04):
Do you think there's a?
So I know I was having aconversation with um, someone
who's been doing copywriting forme for years, and, um, I was
kind of explaining to thembecause they want to grow into a
business and bring on somepeople to help them out and
they're currently going througha diagnosis journey and I sort
of said to them what I'velearned.
So I'm currently rebranding mybusiness and now it's going to

(43:25):
be called Punk Digital becauseit's just the way I am in my
business.
All my clients love me for it.
I walk in looking like this.
They might look at me funny atfirst, but then I start speaking
and they know that I know whatI'm talking about and the more
I've grabbed, leaned into thatas the business has gone on, the
more successful we've been.
It's that authenticity, um,that has really helped.

(43:46):
And um, you don't, you're notturning your brand into masking.
You know you're not buildingthe whole.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
Yeah, you're being yourself right.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Exactly exactly.
I think, that authenticity canreally that's got like a
positive mental health aspectbuilt into it as well, and yeah
oh sorry, you go down.

Speaker 1 (44:07):
And this is why you see brands evolve, and
especially smaller brands asthey start to grow.
And you look at the evolutionof brands, it becomes, say, you
take someone who's just startingout and they wear a suit and a
tie and they turn up and theyalways do their talks and this
is this, and then, and then theygo a few years later they say,
oh, we're gonna have a brand re,you know rebrand in this sense.
Then suddenly they're likebeard or they always wear it or

(44:29):
whatever that kind of looks like, and they're like, whoa, where
did that come from?
That came from because that, Iguess, stereotypically, we feel
that we have to look a certainway or act a certain way.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Can I say sorry you go but.
I want to say well, it's justfunny because I don't know if
you remember, when you first metme, I was wearing suits, short
hair.
When you first met me, I waswearing suits, short hair, very
clean, shaven.
Now I'm long haired beard, morecasual, all of that type of

(45:01):
stuff.
And I think a big thing behindthat was especially the pandemic
.
It gave me a lot of time tothink and be like what do I want
to be?
I wasn't feeling myself andthen after the pandemic, I was
like you know what I'm justgoing to be.
I wasn't feeling myself andthen after the pandemic, I was
like you know what I'm justgoing to be, more me and
honestly I feel so much betterfor being that now than what I
was trying not to be in the past, if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
So your personal branding should be really
personal, if that makes senseyou guys mentioned it, it's
being being your authentic selfand not masking.
You know the mask we mask asindividuals and even someone you
know who's neurodiverse maskmassively Because we have to
think, you know, what does youknow a businessman look like?

(45:42):
You know, in that sense, youknow, if we just took, if we
Google, what does a businessmanlook like?
And it'll be suit, tie,briefcase.
You know all these differentthings.
You know what does a podcasterlook like?
You know someone from radio,what does this look like?
And I guess those, you knowthose stereotypical ways that we
have to think about, we have tothen conform, so we mask, we go
okay, I'm going to jump intothis suit and I'm going to be

(46:04):
this person.
I'm a businessman, you know,with my briefcase, and this
isn't it.
And I think that's theevolution, when you can kind of
let down your guard and show alittle bit of vulnerability.
And that's very difficultbecause if someone who is
neurodiverse has spent a lot oftime being vulnerable, and then
it, but it does, it does evolve.
You will see, I've seen it somany times um, of people's

(46:26):
brands, we can have a massiverebrand and it and it, and then
you start, you know, you startfeeling into that brand.
You're like I want to buy thatproduct or service or listen to
that person because I can.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
Finally I can connect to them and and it's funny you
say that because, when I can,when I became myself again, um
type of thing, rather thantrying to be someone I wasn't, I
did find that I could start to.
I just felt I was getting a bitmore, a few more wins there
than maybe what I was.

(46:59):
Yeah, and I think I wasattracting the right people then
as well, because back in the,the past, I just wasn't
attracting the right peoplebecause I couldn't be myself.
And I feel so much better forthat and I feel like I'm making
more leeway now and does thatmean?

Speaker 3 (47:14):
does that have you sort of burning out a bit less
or a bit less easily?

Speaker 2 (47:18):
Who me?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally man,like I don't know, I just feel
like I can you know, like, evenlike how I you know the people I
hang with, you know, because Ithink, like back when I used to
wear suits and all of that typeof stuff, it was sort of like

(47:39):
and we're talking about LinkedIn, you would connect with so many
people on LinkedIn, but I don'tknow if it was the same with
you, darren, but you would meetthese people in real life and
they're completely different tothe image that they were
portraying through LinkedIn, forexample, right where, for me,
I've always tried to be myselfand I'm attracting the right

(48:02):
people because of that.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
Now, absolutely from from day one.
I've always if I I normallyalways wear a shirt, a jacket on
top, and jeans and some shoes.
That's kind of just been my.
You know, people mock oh,you've got your LinkedIn outfit
on and that's basically.
But so I but I feel comfortablein that.
That's what you know.
When I very first started, itwas a tie and and actual suit,

(48:24):
trousers, and it's evolved over,you know, over that period of
time.
But it's funny to say that andand this is where the
authenticity comes in Now I wasat an event recently and I've
shared this on LinkedIn whenwe're looking to outsource our
marketing and I'm not saying,you know, we've grown social
media marketing agencies andsold a couple and bits and
pieces, but so we don't.

(48:45):
I'm a big believer in, if youknow, marketing companies and
outsourcing marketing and thingslike this, but we have to do it
carefully and this is wherepersonal branding can go a
little bit wrong.
If we're not careful and wegive our, we don't understand
our why and we don't understandour personal branding.
So someone that I've connectedwith for six months on LinkedIn

(49:06):
and I've never said who it was,but and I actually connected
with them and I jumped into theDMs with them and started
messaging.
We had a bit of a conversation.
I went to this event and I sawthis person at the event and
when we were having a coffee, Istarted talking.
I started talking about thethings that we were talking
about on the DMs.
The person didn't recognize me,didn't even know what I was

(49:28):
talking about Nothing.
And I then sat there going.
But we DM'd you know, we, wehad a conversation about that
and this is this.
And he said oh, no, no, no, I'mgoing to stop you there, darren
.
I said I I I haven't got timefor LinkedIn.
I pay someone to do my LinkedInand I felt like I cheated.
I felt like being likecatfished or something.
You know it was just reallylike oh my God.

(49:51):
And then I was thinking how manyother people do that with their
personal branding?
How many people just outsourceto someone and say, just post
for me and that's fine from abusiness point of view, don't
get me wrong.
That's key Out sourcing.
We've done it thousands ofpeople over the years.
But your personal branding isso important because if you turn
it to an event and we've beentalking and connecting and

(50:12):
commenting and DMing and thenyou don't even know who I am and
I don't know, or vice versa, itcan be very damaging.
It's a bad look, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (50:21):
And you could have been like one of the more
valuable things that everhappened to his business, and
he's lost that opportunity thankyou so much.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
But but genuinely I was, I connected with him and we
had to, you know, differentconversations about business and
different opportunities andstuff like this.
And it wasn't the sales, itwasn't and this is the thing, it
wasn't like a generic hit youwith the sales dm, you know, I'm
looking for this.
It was genuinely like about heymate, how you going?
yeah, building that friendshipand I just felt, and I think

(50:49):
that's the danger of personalbranding.
So we have to really kind of bemindful of if we do have an
assistant working with it or ifwe do outsource it.
You know something like that.
Really, you really need to sitdown with someone and go, okay.
So if you're going to post forme, I at least know what's going
on, what's my new connections,you know, who have I connected
with this week?
Whatever, you know, if that'sthe way, the route you want to

(51:10):
go down, then that's fine.

Speaker 2 (51:11):
But yeah, really do well, do you know what right I?
I can tell the people who haveand it's different for a
business page.
I think, like a business pageyou could, you can have people
running the business page.
But when it's your personal,like like linkedin for example,
I think it's so important thatyou're running that as a person

(51:32):
type of thing, right.
But I can now tell when peoplehave scheduled their linkedin
page just to be popping out likestuff every day because you
might comment on something, butthen you hear nothing from them
it's.

Speaker 1 (51:51):
People ask if I if because I post a lot, um, you
know, I've never outsourced mymarketing uh, in, in that sense,
never outsourced my, myLinkedIn and I find stuff.
But the I always find that thecomment section, the comment
section, is the most powerfulpart of anything that I've done
and it can really kind oflevitate anything.
It can change completely,change the game, regardless of

(52:11):
the content that you're puttingout.
So, yes, the content needs tobe good and whatever you're
putting out, the message needsto be there and maybe a call to
action and stuff like this.
But the comment section iswhere everything happens and I
think this is where I see a lotof people put a post out, a load
of people will comment nothingback.
You know, I literally sit thereand comment on every single

(52:31):
message that comes back.
You know, even just thankingthem, and that's the actual key,
because one obviously it pushesthe post up, but it just and it
does take, let's take time,don't get me wrong.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
But can I say on that right, I do limit who I comment
with these days.
So I got to a point where youknow, I was getting a lot of
people commenting on stuff andsome people were just wanting to
pick fights.
If I get people who comment onmy stuff and they disagree with

(53:03):
what I'm saying, I'll remove itor I won't even comment at all
type of thing.
You know what I mean, because Iwas finding that it was
actually becoming a very bigmental health problem by getting
so stuck in that Now it's morelike you know what.
I'm just posting up what I want.
If you want to write negativestuff, I don't want to hear

(53:25):
about it.
I only want to talk to thepeople who are watching.
I think it's actually key, Iwould block.

Speaker 1 (53:30):
I just block now and I think that does get, because,
from a neurodiverse point ofview, I feel like I can get
really highly sensitive aboutsomething or read, and it's not
because I'm blocking, becauseI'm thinking, you know I
disagree, but I'm thinking likeI don't need to put my energy
into this and we're never goingto agree on something.

(53:54):
It's not worth it.
It's not worth it.
So I will just yeah.
I will just yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:59):
Especially when you have an ADHD brain that can just
catastrophize at a millionmiles an hour and have that
conversation in your head allday.
It's probably not healthy.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
No, but what I would find people would, I would post
something up, but then thatwould be wanting to start a
fight on something that hadnothing to do with the actual
post and I'm just like, ah, thishas got nothing to do with the
actual post and I'm just like,ah, why?
this has got nothing to do withwhat this post is about, and it

(54:30):
could have been like a very likesay, for example right, I had a
friend of mine.
She posted up a a picture withher daughter going to school
camp or something like that.
And you know, it was a nicepicture and all that.
And then someone wrotesomething like nah, you're just
posting that, you're justanother person posting up a
picture with your daughter totry and get attention.

(54:51):
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (54:53):
and it just wasn't that and I'm like, oh, my god,
when you, when you learn thatit's not, it's very difficult to
think this isn't personal, um,you know, and, and they'll,
they'll jump on and do it.
The other key things you get iswhich used to frustrate me a
little bit now, and I thinkthat's fine you know people will
jump straight onto your postand promote.

(55:13):
You know what they're doing, orit's like a subliminal kind of
sales post.
You know, in this sense, andsometimes, if it becomes a
little different, things thatyou're like come on on, that's a
, that's a little cheeky, yeah,totally.
But but yeah, I think from amental health point of view, you
need to.
You know, if you want to post,that's great.

(55:35):
You need to understand, haveyour, your um, you know your
kind of boundaries in way of howyou're going to interact.
You know I put a post out.
Um, when we started doing our,our, our podcast, we, you know,
I started asking for guests andI guess I wasn't ready for how
many people would contact me,because you still have this

(55:57):
imposter syndrome of thinking,you know why does someone want
to come on the show?
And this is this.
You know, and I had over two,two thousand messages in four
weeks and that was throughlinkedin emails, through the
website and all the other bitsand pieces, two thousand people
and I'm like, and then you justgot a ream of all these messages
and then.
So that from an ego point ofview, if you went from an

(56:18):
egotistical point of view, butoh my god, that's amazing.
You know I've got all thesepeople and then you think,
actually, from an administrationpoint of view, how do you deal
with?
So?
You go for a stage of all thesedifferent emotions because then
you think okay, and then in myhead I'm thinking I need to get
back to every single one ofthese people, and then you can't
, because over 2 000 people withone person you're doing all of
the other stuff.

(56:39):
So then you get a stage wherepeople are contacting you.
Why have have you not got backto me?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
You know do you not want me on?

Speaker 1 (56:44):
the show.
Well, am I done this?
This is so.
Your emotions is all like this.
So that's been a for me, alesson to learn, and I put the.
You know I ended up putting apost out about this and
literally said how many messagesI've got from all these
different people.

Speaker 2 (57:14):
And someone actually commented on there I'm still
waiting for mine.
Oh, wow, crazy.
Like come on, you know.
See, I think for us, like Ithink I'm lucky because I know
so many people that we justreach out to our friends or they
they.
Well, you reached out to me andI was like, yes, sweet, we'll
get you on.
You know what I mean.
So I think it's I like it likethat, rather than because I do
sometimes like in the past I'vehad, because I don't know if
you've got this as well but likesometimes you get like

(57:37):
podcasting.
There's people who go out andfind podcasts for certain people
and you get people writing toyou and you look over these
people's stuff and you're like Idon't want this person on my
show, you know.
But I think for us, like weknow all the people who are
coming on, so there's alreadythat connection a lot of the

(57:58):
time, because we've built thatup through linkedin or through
our personal brand.
It's funny that we're talkingabout this because it feels like
people we already know.
You know, like I've known youfor years.
I've never met you in person,but I've met you virtually for
years now, you know, and it'sjust a.

(58:19):
I feel it's a better way ofdoing it rather than going.
Who wants to come on?
Because you do?
You just get it's crap.
You get crap.

Speaker 3 (58:27):
Hey guys, just before we run out of time, I do think
there's one question from alistener that we should try and
get to.
It's just from Mark.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Oh yeah, cool.
So Mark says here, assumingwhen you started you did pro
bono talks, I'm interested inlearning how and when you
started to get paid speakingengagements.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
Absolutely and I think you can do either
depending on where you're atwithin your confidence level of
what it is that you're doing.
So the school talks for me Iwas very this was years and
years ago, so I was veryinexperienced in what I're doing
.
So the school talks for me Iwas very.
This was years and years ago,so I was very inexperienced in
what I was doing.
So I did, and at that time 10,11, 12 years ago, you know, I

(59:13):
didn't know you could get paidin school.
I was thinking that they'rebudgets.
So all of my school talks thatI've done were pro bono.
But I got something from it, soeither a testimonial or some
pictures.
So I always think to myself,whatever you go in and do,
whether it's a free talk, youget something from it so it can
then propel you into somethingelse.
That then turned into kind ofthe business talk.

(59:36):
So going to expos, um, you know, like the big shows and
speaking on stage for those andbusinesses have all been the
paid element.
So I think in everything I'vedone I have had a kind of
charitable, pro bono kind ofelement to it, depending on
circumstances side of it.
But we all need to, you know,make a living, um, and also as

(59:58):
well is, don't everunderestimate how much you're
giving back to someone.
Okay, so it might just be aschool talk or whatever it is
called, but it's not becauseit's absolutely powerful um in
that sense.
So, yes, there were nearly daysthere was while I was building
up my skill, um and and in inthat sense of knowledge, but
from a, a business and companies.

(01:00:19):
You know some of the companiesI work with.
You know amazon, netflix,disney.
You know, if I went in and saidI'm going to do a pro bono talk
, it would be a little strangeand they probably would value me
less if I didn't put cost tothe side of it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah, no, it's true, I think it really depends on a
few things.
For me it might be a little bitof a different thing, but
sometimes say if a good friendof mine, who maybe I've gone out
and had some drinks, if I'mlike really good friends has
comes to me and says, hey, will,can you come and talk at this

(01:00:57):
for me?
Blah, blah, blah, I'll be like,yeah, man, you're my mate, you
know.
But say, if, like, some randomcompany reaches out to me via
LinkedIn or a website orsomething and goes, can you
speak at this thing?
The first thing I always put upis money.
You know I'll say look, if mytime is valuable, this is how

(01:01:21):
much I cost.
And there's even been timeswhere I've gone you know what
I'm going to charge heaps forthis one and see what happens.
And I've made my, I've beenpaid for it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
But it's also you're absolutely right it's your value
, it's your time and I've alwaysendeavoured to say that when
you are looking to work for youknow Mark puts a question up
looking to work for anorganisation I always think and
I know you do this sowonderfully as well, will is
understand what next for theorganization, because it's great
bringing someone in to talkabout awareness, whatever it is

(01:01:55):
that you're doing, but you areopening Pandora's box and the
next day that your employees orwhoever it comes in, they're
going to want to speak tosomeone, day that your employees
or whoever it comes in they'regoing to want to speak to
someone, and if, if you've justbrought someone in to talk and
talk about these things and youhaven't got any structure or
anything else in place to beable to help and support, then
that's the problem.
So it may be, actually I can goin and do the talk, but I can

(01:02:16):
then work with the organizationand do this, this and that
afterwards or what.
What is your support?

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
and I think that then adds to the value, because you
understand it more as a speakerbut more as how you can help the
individuals in there and I dobelieve that also with some of
those speaking gigs with, say,large corporates for example,
sometimes that can be the footin the door to get that next lot
of business, and all thatbecause they're like, oh my God,

(01:02:42):
I trust this guy and we respecthim and all of that type of
stuff we work with hsbc, for itstarted off as a coffee, a
coffee and chat or whatever itwas you know 30 minute talk.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
We ended up myself and my wife worked with them for
five years.
You know we were in singaporeand you know in america and
things like this.
So that's where theconversation can lead.
But you remember when, rememberif you're going into
organizations that are very newon the journey, they need your
experience and knowledge so muchat that time, and then you just
put the ground out, you justsay this is where you start,

(01:03:16):
this is where I see it going,whereabouts on the journey.
Do you want me to work with youon this?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Yeah, totally, totally.
I think we're actually out of abit.
We we flew through that.
I think we got stuck on thedyslexia, but I think it was
good I think yeah just talkabout that stuff a little bit of
branding I looked over thequestions.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
We pretty much did answer all of them without
actually asking them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah but, darren, you know, if,
um our listeners want to connectwith you, um, where's the best
place?
I'm pretty sure you're going tosay linkedin find me on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Find me on linkedin.
We do neurodiversity stories aswell, but find me on linkedin
and you'll be able to find any.
Yeah, under darren clark, evenif you just put darren clark to
select in you, I'll pop up andneurodiversity Stories.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
Is your podcast correct?

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
Neurodiversity Stories is our podcast that goes
out live every Friday 11o'clock UK time.
So if anyone wants to jump onthat, what would that be in
Australia?

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
What's the time where you are now mate?

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
Just double check.
I think it's like 10, 10.30.
Oh so it would probably beabout 8 30 australian time.
Yeah, yeah, it's 10 30 10 30 amhere, so that goes out every
friday um for an hour and wejust, yeah, we talk about lots
of different subjects around umyeah but, awesome, well, awesome

(01:04:42):
stuff, mate, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
Thank you so much for all the work you're doing,
darren.
I will see you one day, fingerscrossed I'd love to see both.

Speaker 3 (01:04:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, more than welcome to come
to australia mate I may see himbefore you next year yeah,
contact me absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:04:59):
Yeah, bristol is only an hour away from where I live.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Yeah, cool, cool, cool, awesome.
Well, thank you so much, andthank you so much for all the
listeners for checking out thepodcast today.
My name's Will Wheeler, joinwith my main man, photon John,
and this is Neurodivergent mate.
Until next time, bye.